From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 04:21:04 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 00:21:04 -0400 Subject: Linux and SmartPhones Message-ID: <200507010021.04821.marc@lijour.net> Hi do you know of some resources about Linux on Smart Phones? I am specifically curious about programming for NOKIA hardware (is Symbian OS the only alternative?). What about Linux and sim cards? What is the plan for Linux in this arena? I appreciate any resource you can mention. Regards, Marc Lijour -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 16:13:22 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:13:22 -0400 Subject: Upgrading to a new Hard Drive In-Reply-To: <20050630165416.GK23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609@acheron.ss.org> <20050630165416.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42C56BA2.2040802@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Install new hd as hdb or whatever works in the machine, then partition > it as you want it, do mkfs and mkswap as necesary on the new partitions, > then mount new root partition as /mnt or something, and cp -ax / /mnt to > copy all the files over. Doing this in single user mode has the least > chance of files being open/in use. What does the x option add to cp -a? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 16:19:53 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:19:53 -0400 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> <20050630164932.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <42C56D29.5000705@rogers.com> mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hmph, Bell cut my DSL, even dropping me from a conference call on my > analog line for a few minutes. > > I'm going to investigate a cell phone plan and ditching my analog line as > a backup. There's no point dealing with Bell anymore. This isn't the > first thing they've done to demonstrate that they don't care about their > customers. > > Yeah I'm bitter about the DSL, and technically that might or might not be > iStop's fault, but interfering with my analog service to do so is > unacceptable. They behave like a monopoly. Bell telephone certainly > won't be calling up Bell Nexxia (or whomever is doing DSL these days) and > complaining about upset customers on my behalf. > > They don't seem to abide by the spirit nor the letter of the CRTC's > regulations. Anyone remember Lily Tomlin's "Ernestine the Telephone Operator" "Mr. Veedle, you owe us a balance of $23.64. When may we expect payment? Pardon? When what freezes over? I don't see why you're kicking up such a ruckus when according to our files your present bank balance, plus stocks, securities, and other holdings, amounts to exactly ... Pardon? Privileged information? Oh! (snort, snort) Mr. Veedle, that's so cute! No, no, no, you're dealing with the telephone company. We are not subject to city, state, or federal legislation. We are omnipotent." ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 16:31:34 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 12:31:34 -0400 Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <42C56FE6.3090204@rogers.com> mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Are data-capable phones with cellular service available or affordable on > the Telus or Mike networks these days? I'd like to ditch my land line, go > for a cheap Roger's cable connection and be able to dial up the office > should my cable modem die. Not just because I want to get rid of Bell, > but because caller ID and Voicemail is bizzarely expensive, and there's no > point in keeping a landline when it is roughly the same price as a cell. > > I ask about those two networks because they have towers near my house: > http://www.arcx.com/sites/ Data over cell phones tends to be *VERY* expensive. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 17:09:35 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:09:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: <20050630200556.GO23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > It seems a lot of istop.com customer DSL lines or now dead (at least all > the ones I know about appear down know). > > So Bell can take 5 days to connect, but only a couple of hours to > disconnect. Not sure what is an appropriate description of Bell right > now. I'm interested to know if anyone has the same problem we do at home. My iStop DSL service was disconnected at 11:46am yesterday. At 2:49am I discovered we had no dialtone on any of our phones on that line. Despite the rather obvious correlation a supervisor actually tried to suggest our lack of dialtone was unrelated to anything they had done to the line. I'm thinking they either misconfigured something or actually fried something when they removed the DSL line sync. On top of this they have indicated we almost certainly will not get service from a technician before July 6 due to a strike they are having. Since they are the ones that goofed I of course found this totally unacceptable. The Toronto Star found what I had to say interesting. Other agencies will also be hearing about this on Monday. I called iStop from my cell yesterday. The person I spoke to had not heard of any other similar reports. Is anyone else having an issue like this? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 17:16:29 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 13:16:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 30 Jun 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > It seems a lot of istop.com customer DSL lines or now dead (at least all > > the ones I know about appear down know). > > > > So Bell can take 5 days to connect, but only a couple of hours to > > disconnect. Not sure what is an appropriate description of Bell right > > now. > > I'm interested to know if anyone has the same problem we do at home. My > iStop DSL service was disconnected at 11:46am yesterday. At 2:49am I Sorry I meant 2:49pm. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 17:59:42 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 13:59:42 -0400 Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42C5848E.9050701@sympatico.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > > Is anyone else having an issue like this? My Bell DSL was out all of yesterday evening. But I'd tend not to attribute to malice what could more easily be explained by lightning. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 18:10:01 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 14:10:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: <42C5848E.9050701-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C5848E.9050701@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Robert Brockway wrote: > > > > Is anyone else having an issue like this? > > My Bell DSL was out all of yesterday evening. But I'd tend not to > attribute to malice what could more easily be explained by lightning. I meant, did anyone else have their phone line die when their iStop DSL was disabled? There was no lightning around when I experienced problems - only tampering by a Bell engineer :) Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 18:23:27 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 01 Jul 2005 14:23:27 -0400 Subject: FC4 messes up console on Averatec 3500 series laptop Message-ID: <42C551DF.861.A0C150E@localhost> I decided recently to install FC4 on my laptop (Averatec 3500 series) and noticed that while X-windows is running OK, the console is messed up. The lines which should appear on the bottom are actually the top 2 lines, and are compressed. In addiotion, I noticed that the module for recognising an NTFS partition isn't loading by default. The partition is on a laptop hard disk hooked up to a USB port, but using the mount command gives the error message that the NTFS partition is not recognised. However, my USB memory sticks are recognised, so there is hope. I'm more worried about the monitor really. Any suggestions? Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 19:13:48 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 15:13:48 -0400 Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C5848E.9050701@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 1-Jul-05, at 2:10 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > I meant, did anyone else have their phone line die when their iStop DSL > was disabled? I haven't had any phone line problems. The DSL synch went at 9:00a.m. yesterday...about 20 minutes after I read of some unspecified form to fill out to prevent that. I note that there's a can.internet.highspeed newsgroup with a fair amount of activity. (In case you're not aware of it and would like some extra points of view.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 21:46:23 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: <42C56FE6.3090204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C56FE6.3090204@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4857.129.37.177.92.1120254383.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> (Squirrelmail on look.ca seems not to do attributes, darn.) > Data over cell phones tends to be *VERY* expensive. I just looked through the various packages. You're right of course, but it's odd how much has improved with cell phones and how much remains completely unchanged. It's expensive, and not very good :-( -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 22:06:03 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 18:06:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1074.129.37.177.92.1120255563.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > The Toronto Star found what I had to say interesting. Other agencies will > also be hearing about this on Monday. > > I called iStop from my cell yesterday. The person I spoke to had not > heard of any other similar reports. Is anyone else having an issue like > this? Nothing so serious, but I mentioned yesterday on the list that my POTS line went dead for five minutes or so when my DSL was disconnected. With the DSL down, I had to drive into the office. It made quite the mess of my day. I'm going to be driving in this weekend to finish up. Considering the strike, I don't doubt that it will be weeks before my DSL is up. In the meantime I have little choice but to sign up with Rogers. It's a good thing I just got out of on-call rotation. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 22:40:33 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:40:33 -0500 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, Sy wrote: > Another vote for Look from me. I've been using Bell and they seem > really awfully slow. I'm seriously considering moving back to Look > since I still have the original modem I bought a while back. > > I had a great experience with them when I was using them.. On this note, I had downtime and was slapped in the face with my service agreement when I called in to make sure I wouldn't be billed for the two days. I'm also looking for a good ISP, and I'll either go with look or more likely peruse this thread to check into my options more deeply. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 22:54:08 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:54:08 -0500 Subject: Domain name register help In-Reply-To: <20050630182829.5542.qmail-23FcKNrgct6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050630182829.5542.qmail@web50809.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 6/30/05, hui xu wrote: > > Hi, > > Could anybody give me a help for domain setup? > > I have a static ip adress from ISTOP and registered a domain name from > "Regristeryour.CA". > > After a week, when I visisted www.mydomain.ca, It said my domain is > currently parked. I called them, they said I need find a company to host > my domain. > > > > But what I want is to host domain on my LINUX box with my own Static IP. > How can I do it? > My experience is that they should have a simple webform for you to point that domain name to your IP. No-Ip.com has this, and I thought every provider would. Can't you call and tell them the IP to use? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 1 22:56:31 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 17:56:31 -0500 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <42C56D29.5000705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> <20050630164932.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C56D29.5000705@rogers.com> Message-ID: Wow, I'm not the only person who's been having problems. I knew they were a bad choice. While I'm looking into making the ISP switch, who should I go to for telephone service? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 03:40:00 2005 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jonathan zou) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 23:40:00 -0400 Subject: Linux and SmartPhones In-Reply-To: <200507010021.04821.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200507010021.04821.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <3009c0a8050701204075a8ed55@mail.gmail.com> try this one http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html most of them use qt, very easy to start. On 7/1/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > do you know of some resources about Linux on Smart Phones? I am specifically > curious about programming for NOKIA hardware (is Symbian OS the only > alternative?). > > What about Linux and sim cards? > > What is the plan for Linux in this arena? > > I appreciate any resource you can mention. > > Regards, > > Marc Lijour > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 03:56:22 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 1 Jul 2005 23:56:22 -0400 Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy In-Reply-To: <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050630200556.GO23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <54930.129.33.49.251.1120164653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050702035622.GA28780@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Jun 30, 2005 at 04:50:53PM -0400, mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Are data-capable phones with cellular service available or affordable on > the Telus or Mike networks these days? I'd like to ditch my land line, go > for a cheap Roger's cable connection and be able to dial up the office > should my cable modem die. Not just because I want to get rid of Bell, > but because caller ID and Voicemail is bizzarely expensive, and there's no > point in keeping a landline when it is roughly the same price as a cell. > > I ask about those two networks because they have towers near my house: > http://www.arcx.com/sites/ Data service from cell phones is available. It is not particularly fast (expect about double the speed you'd get from a dial-up modem on a land line - the cell data conection is nominally 120 kbps and you actually get around 60-80 while a modem is nominally 56 kbps but actually 30-40). It can be very expensive. While there are cheap plans, they have a limit on total data allowed and the surcharge for exceeding the limit is huge. Rogers had no plan that did not have a cap (Fido does have an unlimited plan, I believe - I didn't lookinto it because I was going to be outside of its service area). Telus has an unlimited data plan for $100/month (plus a $60/year extra charge). I used Telus for the past two weeks, and ran 2 or 3 Gb through it in that time. It worked fairly well, but because of the price and speed, I'd only recommend it for times when DSL or cable service is not available as an option. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 04:07:24 2005 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 00:07:24 -0400 Subject: Next PHLUG meeting Tuesday July 4 Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050702000054.03226418@mail.eol.ca> Come join us at the next Peel Halton Linux Users Group this Tuesday. It will be, as usual, at the Mulligans Bar and Pub in the Woodchester Mall off Dundas (between Winston Churchhill and Erin Mills Parkway) in Mississauga. Formal time is 7pm. but a few come earlier often and if you have to be a bit late, that works to ;-). Lots of food you can order and unbridled technical talk with your peers. Bill Mudry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 12:12:21 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 08:12:21 -0400 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050629161652.64945.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> <20050629164712.GZ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1428276403.20050629180058@istop.com> <20050630164932.GJ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <2488.129.37.153.110.1120154026.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42C56D29.5000705@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C684A5.9070502@rogers.com> Sy wrote: > Wow, I'm not the only person who's been having problems. I knew they > were a bad choice. While I'm looking into making the ISP switch, who > should I go to for telephone service? Other than Rogers, no matter who you go with, the "last mile" will likely be Bell. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 14:48:50 2005 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 10:48:50 -0400 Subject: ISTOP help In-Reply-To: <42C684A5.9070502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629154143.GY23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C684A5.9070502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200507021048.50813.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> Hello I use Iprimus on dial-up, too poor to afford DSL. While they are not outwardly Linux friendly, their connections are solid. I rarely have to phone tech support, and seeing that I'm a Mandrake user, the Drakconnect wizards handles all the intriciacies of the connection. My two bits Clive On Saturday 02 July 2005 08:12 am, James Knott wrote: > Sy wrote: > > Wow, I'm not the only person who's been having problems. I knew they > > were a bad choice. While I'm looking into making the ISP switch, who > > should I go to for telephone service? > > Other than Rogers, no matter who you go with, the "last mile" will > likely be Bell. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Clive DaSilva Tel : 416-421-2480 Cell: 416-560-8820 Mandrake Linux 10.1 Kernel 2.6.8 ---------------------------- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 15:25:48 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 11:25:48 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A13C.7010408@mi-consultants.com> <42C2A5C4.9000805@rogers.com> <200506291108.32029.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <42C2CD05.6090406@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <42C6B1FC.1070302@golden.net> Sy wrote: >On 6/29/05, Sy wrote: > > > >>Another vote for Look from me. I've been using Bell and they seem >>really awfully slow. I'm seriously considering moving back to Look >>since I still have the original modem I bought a while back. >> >>I had a great experience with them when I was using them.. >> >> > >On this note, I had downtime and was slapped in the face with my >service agreement when I called in to make sure I wouldn't be billed >for the two days. > >I'm also looking for a good ISP, and I'll either go with look or more >likely peruse this thread to check into my options more deeply. > > > I've found this link useful. http://www.canadianisp.com/ I have been using golden.net for a few years and have been quite satisfied with the service. They were recently bought out by execulink though. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 15:32:06 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 11:32:06 -0400 Subject: Linux and SmartPhones In-Reply-To: <3009c0a8050701204075a8ed55-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200507010021.04821.marc@lijour.net> <3009c0a8050701204075a8ed55@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200507021132.06474.marc@lijour.net> Thank you. It is strange that the most recent article dates Jan 2004 and most of them go back to 2002. Is this site still running? On July 1, 2005 23:40, jonathan zou wrote: > try this one > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html > > most of them use qt, very easy to start. > > On 7/1/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Hi > > > > do you know of some resources about Linux on Smart Phones? I am > > specifically curious about programming for NOKIA hardware (is Symbian OS > > the only alternative?). > > > > What about Linux and sim cards? > > > > What is the plan for Linux in this arena? > > > > I appreciate any resource you can mention. > > > > Regards, > > > > Marc Lijour > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 15:41:45 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 11:41:45 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C29153.3090100-GZQbwxpw1EXk7dXyY5I9mNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> Message-ID: <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> Hi I see nobody shared this ISP yet, so I go ahead. I am with Magma (a Primus company) and so far I have a perfect service. I was a dsl.ca subscriber, and then we got switched to Wiznet who bought dsl.ca and now it got absorbed by Primus. www.magma.ca About Bell. I had a hard time getting my line officially on a 3Mb level. Bell seemed to have 2 different records or the line capability (I don't see what they see). However where I live I get only 120Kbps and lately I have seen no more than 85Kbps. Regards Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 16:00:44 2005 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 12:00:44 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200507021141.45663.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> Just wondering, are this bunch Linux friendly?, because the parent Primus isn't really Curious On Saturday 02 July 2005 11:41 am, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > I see nobody shared this ISP yet, so I go ahead. > > I am with Magma (a Primus company) and so far I have a perfect service. > > I was a dsl.ca subscriber, and then we got switched to Wiznet who bought > dsl.ca and now it got absorbed by Primus. > > www.magma.ca > > About Bell. > I had a hard time getting my line officially on a 3Mb level. Bell seemed to > have 2 different records or the line capability (I don't see what they > see). However where I live I get only 120Kbps and lately I have seen no > more than 85Kbps. > > Regards > > Marc > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Clive DaSilva Tel : 416-421-2480 Cell: 416-560-8820 Mandrake Linux 10.1 Kernel 2.6.8 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 17:57:42 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 13:57:42 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200507021200.45089.cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <20050702175742.GA17262@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:00:44PM -0400, Clive DaSilva wrote: > Just wondering, are this bunch Linux friendly?, because the parent > Primus isn't really I'm with Eol.ca, which is now owned by Primus.ca. I rarely have problem with the lines, so I rarely talk to their tech support. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 18:03:14 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 14:03:14 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200507021200.45089.cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <200507021403.14481.marc@lijour.net> Friendly enough ;-) I never had to deal with them in such a way that I had to tell them I am running Linux... On July 2, 2005 12:00, Clive DaSilva wrote: > Just wondering, are this bunch Linux friendly?, because the parent Primus > isn't really > > Curious > > On Saturday 02 July 2005 11:41 am, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Hi > > > > I see nobody shared this ISP yet, so I go ahead. > > > > I am with Magma (a Primus company) and so far I have a perfect service. > > > > I was a dsl.ca subscriber, and then we got switched to Wiznet who bought > > dsl.ca and now it got absorbed by Primus. > > > > www.magma.ca > > > > About Bell. > > I had a hard time getting my line officially on a 3Mb level. Bell seemed > > to have 2 different records or the line capability (I don't see what they > > see). However where I live I get only 120Kbps and lately I have seen no > > more than 85Kbps. > > > > Regards > > > > Marc > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 20:45:31 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 16:45:31 -0400 Subject: Free small drives Message-ID: <200507021645.31809.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Housecleaning time. Found an old box, with items long forgotten about. Free to good home ( or any home for that matter ) If you are interested in any of this, contact me off-list. Unwanted items get tossed on Wed. I am located just outside of Georgetown. Will be attending the WestTLUG meeting on Tuesday. at Mulligans in Missisauga Maxtor: 7850AV 850 MB 81080A3 1080 MB Fujitsu: M1614TAU 1091MB X 3 Seagate: ST3850A 850.5 MB Quantum: 1080AT 1080 MB X2 1280AT 1280 MB 2110S TM21S011 rev 12-D 2.1 GB SCSI 1080S 1 GB SCSI Western Digital: Caviar 31200 1281.9 MB Caviar 31000 1083.8 MB WDAC21600-60H 1.63 GB Compaq # 247200-002 Motherboard & CPU ECS P6FX1-A Pentium Pro 200 + extra motherboard Again, If you are interested in any of this, contact me off-list. Unwanted items get tossed on Wed. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 21:28:46 2005 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jonathan zou) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 17:28:46 -0400 Subject: Linux and SmartPhones In-Reply-To: <200507021132.06474.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200507010021.04821.marc@lijour.net> <3009c0a8050701204075a8ed55@mail.gmail.com> <200507021132.06474.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <3009c0a80507021428585d64a7@mail.gmail.com> My intests center on pda stuff,this site updates a lot in that field,so I think it's working >From what I know,almost all linux phones emerge from cjk(china,japan,korean),for example motorola is marketing their linux phones in china very recently http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/93/93785.shtml I think maybe it's a better choice to use j2me if your application is general purpose,it's powerful,run on all phones(almost) and resource saving to develop. On 7/2/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > Thank you. > It is strange that the most recent article dates Jan 2004 and most of them go > back to 2002. Is this site still running? > > On July 1, 2005 23:40, jonathan zou wrote: > > try this one > > > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html > > > > most of them use qt, very easy to start. > > > > On 7/1/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > do you know of some resources about Linux on Smart Phones? I am > > > specifically curious about programming for NOKIA hardware (is Symbian OS > > > the only alternative?). > > > > > > What about Linux and sim cards? > > > > > > What is the plan for Linux in this arena? > > > > > > I appreciate any resource you can mention. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Marc Lijour > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 22:27:04 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:27:04 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200507021200.45089.cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <42C714B8.4010109@rogers.com> Clive DaSilva wrote: > Just wondering, are this bunch Linux friendly?, because the parent Primus > isn't really I think you'll find most ISP's are not so much Linux friendly, but not Linux hostile. They don't mind you using Linux or anything else, but just don't expect much in the way of support. What really gets me, is the way ISPs claim they're fighting SPAM, viruses etc., yet supporting only Windows, Outlook and IE, running without a firewall/router. It's almost as though they're encouraging viruses. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 22:28:59 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:28:59 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050702175742.GA17262-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> <20050702175742.GA17262@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42C7152B.2070103@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:00:44PM -0400, Clive DaSilva wrote: >>Just wondering, are this bunch Linux friendly?, because the parent >>Primus isn't really > > I'm with Eol.ca, which is now owned by Primus.ca. I rarely have problem > with the lines, so I rarely talk to their tech support. > They can soon fix that. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 22:22:42 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 18:22:42 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <200507021141.45663.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <42C713B2.10408@rogers.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > About Bell. > I had a hard time getting my line officially on a 3Mb level. Bell seemed to > have 2 different records or the line capability (I don't see what they see). > However where I live I get only 120Kbps and lately I have seen no more than > 85Kbps. This is one place where cable modems have it over ADSL. I'm currently getting 5 Mb/800 Kb service from Rogers, but the modem, when so configured, supports up to (IIRC) 35 Mb/s. All you have to do, is convince Rogers to sell you that much bandwidth. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 23:06:55 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 19:06:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C714B8.4010109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> <42C714B8.4010109@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Jul 2005, James Knott wrote: > I think you'll find most ISP's are not so much Linux friendly, but not > Linux hostile. They don't mind you using Linux or anything else, but > just don't expect much in the way of support. What really gets me, is > the way ISPs claim they're fighting SPAM, viruses etc., yet supporting > only Windows, Outlook and IE, running without a firewall/router. It's > almost as though they're encouraging viruses. Quite a few of the small local ISPs seem to be comfortable with Linux. I've found http://www.canadianisp.com/ to be useful. As one of the former iStop clients I recently called a number of the ISPs on the list and confirmed that they support Linux at the client end. I ask them if they expect me to put an MS-Windows box on my end to diagnose a connectivity problem. If the answer is yes I do not sign up. At this stage I'm going with Cybersurf anyway and I'll see how it goes. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Ph: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest http://www.spi-inc.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 2 23:13:16 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2005 19:13:16 -0400 Subject: Linux and SmartPhones In-Reply-To: <3009c0a80507021428585d64a7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200507010021.04821.marc@lijour.net> <200507021132.06474.marc@lijour.net> <3009c0a80507021428585d64a7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200507021913.16725.marc@lijour.net> On July 2, 2005 17:28, jonathan zou wrote: > My intests center on pda stuff,this site updates a lot in that > field,so I think it's working > > >From what I know,almost all linux phones emerge from > > cjk(china,japan,korean),for example motorola is marketing their linux > phones in china very recently > > http://www.pcpop.com/doc/0/93/93785.shtml > > I think maybe it's a better choice to use j2me if your application is > general purpose,it's powerful,run on all phones(almost) and resource > saving to develop. Thank you for the advice, duly noted! > > On 7/2/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Thank you. > > It is strange that the most recent article dates Jan 2004 and most of > > them go back to 2002. Is this site still running? > > > > On July 1, 2005 23:40, jonathan zou wrote: > > > try this one > > > > > > http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9423084269.html > > > > > > most of them use qt, very easy to start. > > > > > > On 7/1/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > do you know of some resources about Linux on Smart Phones? I am > > > > specifically curious about programming for NOKIA hardware (is Symbian > > > > OS the only alternative?). > > > > > > > > What about Linux and sim cards? > > > > > > > > What is the plan for Linux in this arena? > > > > > > > > I appreciate any resource you can mention. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Marc Lijour > > > > -- > > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 19:59:06 2005 From: stephen-d-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 15:59:06 -0400 Subject: TCP Out of Order Packets? Help! Message-ID: <42C8438A.9030300@rogers.com> I have a home network, connected with an SMB Barricade router. I have a 10.1 Mandrake Linux machine, and OS/2 (eCS) machine, an XP Desktop and an XP latop. When transferring data from either XP box to either the Linux od OS/2 box I get terrible performance. When transferring data to an XP box, I get expected performance for a 100mps LAN. I am using ftp, to try to keep things as simple as possible while analyzing the problem (but I want to start using SAMBA as a fle server. Since the problem occurs regardless of whether the ftp server is on the linux box or the OS/2 and from either of the XP boxes, I am guessing hardware is not an issue. I ran netstat on the OS/2 box (I am still more comfortable in that environment) and found that 60% of the TCP packets were out of order!? For a simple LAN this seems absurd. Is this the cause of the bad performance? If so, how do I fix. Thanks for any and all help! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 3 20:22:41 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:22:41 -0400 Subject: TCP Out of Order Packets? Help! In-Reply-To: <42C8438A.9030300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C8438A.9030300@rogers.com> Message-ID: You may want to try a network test tool like netperf or Ixia's Q-check. Ftp uses the disk and network at the same time. Given that, Is the performance worse on a send or receive? If you send a large file, does it slowly degrade? Are all of the computers plugged into the router, or is there another switch / hub? If you exclude the router, does it effect the perfomance? -Joseph- On 7/3/05, Stephen wrote: > I have a home network, connected with an SMB Barricade router. I have a > 10.1 Mandrake Linux machine, and OS/2 (eCS) machine, an XP Desktop and > an XP latop. > > When transferring data from either XP box to either the Linux od OS/2 > box I get terrible performance. > > When transferring data to an XP box, I get expected performance for a > 100mps LAN. > > I am using ftp, to try to keep things as simple as possible while > analyzing the problem (but I want to start using SAMBA as a fle server. > > Since the problem occurs regardless of whether the ftp server is on the > linux box or the OS/2 and from either of the XP boxes, I am guessing > hardware is not an issue. > > I ran netstat on the OS/2 box (I am still more comfortable in that > environment) and found that 60% of the TCP packets were out of order!? > > For a simple LAN this seems absurd. Is this the cause of the bad > performance? > > If so, how do I fix. > > Thanks for any and all help! > > Stephen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 01:38:03 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 03 Jul 2005 21:38:03 -0400 Subject: TCP Out of Order Packets? Help! In-Reply-To: <42C8438A.9030300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C8438A.9030300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42C892FB.3090208@rogers.com> Stephen wrote: > I have a home network, connected with an SMB Barricade router. I have a > 10.1 Mandrake Linux machine, and OS/2 (eCS) machine, an XP Desktop and > an XP latop. > > When transferring data from either XP box to either the Linux od OS/2 > box I get terrible performance. > > When transferring data to an XP box, I get expected performance for a > 100mps LAN. > > I am using ftp, to try to keep things as simple as possible while > analyzing the problem (but I want to start using SAMBA as a fle server. > > Since the problem occurs regardless of whether the ftp server is on the > linux box or the OS/2 and from either of the XP boxes, I am guessing > hardware is not an issue. > > I ran netstat on the OS/2 box (I am still more comfortable in that > environment) and found that 60% of the TCP packets were out of order!? > > For a simple LAN this seems absurd. Is this the cause of the bad > performance? > > If so, how do I fix. > > Thanks for any and all help! Hi Stephen. Install ethereal on the Linux box and watch what happens during the file transfer from XP. Also try it with a transfer to OS/2. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 07:02:04 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 03:02:04 -0400 Subject: TCP Out of Order Packets? Help! In-Reply-To: <42C8438A.9030300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C8438A.9030300@rogers.com> Message-ID: This typically happens with an old card/new switch or new switch/old card. Turn off auto negotiation on your cards on the Linux/OS/2 and force FastEthernet (100Mb/s) If you can do duplex then go for it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Stephen Sent: July 3, 2005 3:59 PM To: TO Linux User Group Subject: [TLUG]: TCP Out of Order Packets? Help! I have a home network, connected with an SMB Barricade router. I have a 10.1 Mandrake Linux machine, and OS/2 (eCS) machine, an XP Desktop and an XP latop. When transferring data from either XP box to either the Linux od OS/2 box I get terrible performance. When transferring data to an XP box, I get expected performance for a 100mps LAN. I am using ftp, to try to keep things as simple as possible while analyzing the problem (but I want to start using SAMBA as a fle server. Since the problem occurs regardless of whether the ftp server is on the linux box or the OS/2 and from either of the XP boxes, I am guessing hardware is not an issue. I ran netstat on the OS/2 box (I am still more comfortable in that environment) and found that 60% of the TCP packets were out of order!? For a simple LAN this seems absurd. Is this the cause of the bad performance? If so, how do I fix. Thanks for any and all help! Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 12:11:07 2005 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 05:11:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: istop lines seem to be dropping like crazy Message-ID: <20050704121107.13189.fh053.wm@smtp.sc0.cp.net> On Thu, 30 Jun 2005 19:05:18 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I can't think of any polite adjectives. Suckers? Although it is perhaps too polite. Gilles -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 13:24:15 2005 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 09:24:15 -0400 Subject: ISTOP and Bell Message-ID: I find it rather interesting in that 1. Bell cut off ISTOP like it does to any customer who refused to pay, even if there is an unsettled dispute. 2. customers are held as hostage. http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/65127 Regards, Phillip Qin -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 13:39:42 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 09:39:42 -0400 Subject: ISTOP and Bell In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C93C1E.9040007@rogers.com> Phillip Qin wrote: > I find it rather interesting in that > > 1. Bell cut off ISTOP like it does to any customer who refused to pay, > even if there is an unsettled dispute. While it may be an unsettled dispute, most of us here don't know the details. Until we do, we can't fix the blame on either Bell or iSTOP. > 2. customers are held as hostage. iSTOP customers are not Bell customers. There is no contract between them and Bell, for this service. > > http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/65127 There are some indications there that iSTOP, or more specifically, Ralph Doncaster is the cause of the problem. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 14:12:54 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:12:54 -0400 Subject: ISTOP and Bell In-Reply-To: <42C93C1E.9040007-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C93C1E.9040007@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050704141254.GB2314@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Jul 04, 2005 at 09:39:42AM -0400, James Knott wrote: >iSTOP customers are not Bell customers. There is no contract between >them and Bell, for this service. I may not be a Bell customer directly - because they have crappy customer service and enforce policies incompatible with my needs - but I was an iStop customer for one and only one reason - so that someone else could act as a mediator between me and Bell. I need an ISP to provide two things: a static IP, and an interface with Bell. To me an ISP is just a Bell API, and iStop fails as an API. >There are some indications there that iSTOP, or more specifically, Ralph >Doncaster is the cause of the problem. I have no evidence other than my personal interactions with Mr. Doncaster, but I believe this supposition. I have rarely met a person more prone to massive and embarrassing failures of tact. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 14:37:20 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 10:37:20 -0400 Subject: Upgrading to a new Hard Drive In-Reply-To: <42C56BA2.2040802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050629202804.6E8BF121609@acheron.ss.org> <20050630165416.GK23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <42C56BA2.2040802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050704143720.GP23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Jul 01, 2005 at 12:13:22PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > What does the x option add to cp -a? One filesystem only (so won't decend into /proc and /sys and such). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 17:10:08 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2005 13:10:08 -0400 Subject: Rogers block out Re:Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <42C31815.40504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <42C2CC02.1090305@rogers.com> <200506291522.54715.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20050629214351.GA18472@localhost> <42C31815.40504@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 6/29/05, James Knott wrote: > ted leslie wrote: > > runing an isp and adminsitering a few more, > > this rogers smtp off load over the last couple of days has been weird. > > Rogers soln: > > go to port 587 (they suggested) > > and put a firewall rule in at smtp source to map that to 25, > > i did that for myself (isp) and another and works like a charm, only issue is, > > all the rogers peopl ehaev to change there smtp port set up in their client. > > Why not use port 465, which is the SSL port for SMTP servers. Any > decent mail client should be able to support it. Well, if you're not going to be sending SSL traffic over port 465, it seems silly. Port 587 actually looks like a reasonable port to use in lieu of 25, particularly given the context of individual users' MUAs submitting e-mail (the common case for Rogers customers): $ grep 587 /etc/services submission 587/tcp # Submission [RFC2476] submission 587/udp Which can be found at: http://www.apps.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2476.html Specifically related to the current discussion: 3.1 Submission Identification Port 587 is reserved for email message submission as specified in this document. Messages received on this port are defined to be submissions. The protocol used is ESMTP [SMTP-MTA, ESMTP], with additional restrictions as specified here. While most email clients and servers can be configured to use port 587 instead of 25, there are cases where this is not possible or convenient. A site MAY choose to use port 25 for message submission, by designating some hosts to be MSAs and others to be MTAs. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 4 18:35:04 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Mon, 04 Jul 2005 14:35:04 -0400 Subject: TCP Out of Order Packets? Help! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42C98158.5060407@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You probably can't turn off auto negotiation in the switch, unless it's a managed switch. If you turn it off auto negotiation on the card, then you need to manually set it to 100Mbps half duplex since that's what the auto negotiation on the switch will default to. If you set it to full duplex then you will get a duplex miss-match and drop about 50% of your packets. Which, incidentally is what this sounds like. Have you gone to each box and confirmed that it's NIC is configured to use either auto negotiation or 100/half duplex? - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A Ansar Mohammed wrote: > This typically happens with an old card/new switch or new switch/old card. > Turn off auto negotiation on your cards on the Linux/OS/2 and force > FastEthernet (100Mb/s) If you can do duplex then go for it. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Stephen > Sent: July 3, 2005 3:59 PM > To: TO Linux User Group > Subject: [TLUG]: TCP Out of Order Packets? Help! > > I have a home network, connected with an SMB Barricade router. I have a > 10.1 Mandrake Linux machine, and OS/2 (eCS) machine, an XP Desktop and > an XP latop. > > When transferring data from either XP box to either the Linux od OS/2 > box I get terrible performance. > > When transferring data to an XP box, I get expected performance for a > 100mps LAN. > > I am using ftp, to try to keep things as simple as possible while > analyzing the problem (but I want to start using SAMBA as a fle server. > > Since the problem occurs regardless of whether the ftp server is on the > linux box or the OS/2 and from either of the XP boxes, I am guessing > hardware is not an issue. > > I ran netstat on the OS/2 box (I am still more comfortable in that > environment) and found that 60% of the TCP packets were out of order!? > > For a simple LAN this seems absurd. Is this the cause of the bad > performance? > > If so, how do I fix. > > Thanks for any and all help! > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCyYFYgfzn5SevSpoRAhC9AKDCUzLNKuwWCJwKSKvtg5txuo07dwCdFqtk bwoqRqd5uYodWtAgvD7UpCI= =zMWY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 04:35:33 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 00:35:33 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? Message-ID: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> I'm looking for a place to buy a 1-gig SD card (doesn't anybody have them?) and also a USB extension cable or an SD card-reader. And my rant-of-the-day today is about the stupid USB extension cables that are *DAMN* bright blue, and have an extremely annoying flicker whenever transmitting data. The idiot who thought that up should be shot. The reason I want the SD card is that I just got myself a Panasonic FZ5 (5 megapixel) digicam. There are some tradeoffs. There is no "manual focus" per se. But you can auto-focus on an object and lock the focus to that length. On the plus side, its uncompressed format is tiff, not some proprietary "raw" format that can only be accessed by a proprietary Windows program. -- Walter Dnes My musings on technology and security at http://tech_sec.blog.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 04:40:19 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 00:40:19 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: <20050705043533.GA7264-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200507050040.20054.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Flash Memory 1GB and more http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/category/category_slc.asp?CatId=1779 Many other places have them as well. On July 5, 2005 12:35 am, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm looking for a place to buy a 1-gig SD card (doesn't anybody have > them?) and also a USB extension cable or an SD card-reader. And my > rant-of-the-day today is about the stupid USB extension cables that are > *DAMN* bright blue, and have an extremely annoying flicker whenever > transmitting data. The idiot who thought that up should be shot. > > The reason I want the SD card is that I just got myself a Panasonic > FZ5 (5 megapixel) digicam. There are some tradeoffs. There is no > "manual focus" per se. But you can auto-focus on an object and lock the > focus to that length. On the plus side, its uncompressed format is > tiff, not some proprietary "raw" format that can only be accessed by a > proprietary Windows program. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 04:55:29 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 00:55:29 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP Message-ID: My apologies for posting this on a Linux list; but as I was setting up FreeBSD on one of my laptops I had some issues getting remote access. I just read this from the simpatico AUP. It seems they are enforcing it through firewall policies. Does this mean that they can arbitrarily block any inbound protocol/port? In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you are prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not limited to: * Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up login sessions from the same Sympatico user account. * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service requests from other hosts. * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not limited to HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP, ) * Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. Does Rogers also have the same limitation? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 05:35:25 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 01:35:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: <20050705043533.GA7264-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm looking for a place to buy a 1-gig SD card (doesn't anybody have > them?) and also a USB extension cable or an SD card-reader. And my > rant-of-the-day today is about the stupid USB extension cables that are > *DAMN* bright blue, and have an extremely annoying flicker whenever > transmitting data. The idiot who thought that up should be shot. Did this make anyone else think of: "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as 'a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes,'" ... JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 10:30:13 2005 From: imranqau-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Muhammad Imran) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 10:30:13 +0000 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is what Rogers' "End User Agreement" Says. Without limitation, you may not use the Services (including the Equipment) to directly or indirectly: - access the Internet via the Services using an IP address other than the dynamic IP addresses assigned to you by Rogers; - alter, modify or tamper with the Services (including the Equipment); - interfere with computer networking or telecommunications service to or from any Internet user, host or network, including but not limited to denial of service attacks, overloading a service, improper seizure or abuse of operator privileges ("hacking") or attempting to "crash" a host; *- operate a server in connection with the Services including but not limited to mail, news, file, gopher, telnet, chat, web, or host configuration servers, multimedia streamers, or multi-user interactive forums; - forge headers or otherwise manipulate identifiers in order to disguise the origin of any content transmitted through the Services; or >From: "Ansar Mohammed" >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >To: >Subject: [TLUG]: Sympatico AUP >Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 00:55:29 -0400 > >My apologies for posting this on a Linux list; but as I was setting up >FreeBSD on one of my laptops I had some issues getting remote access. >I just read this from the simpatico AUP. It seems they are enforcing it >through firewall policies. Does this mean that they can arbitrarily block >any inbound protocol/port? > >In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you are >prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not limited to: >* Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any >purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up login >sessions from the same Sympatico user account. >* Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service >requests from other hosts. >* Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not limited >to HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP, ) >* Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. >* Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. > > > >Does Rogers also have the same limitation? > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 12:58:49 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 08:58:49 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: <20050705043533.GA7264-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <42CA8409.1010802@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm looking for a place to buy a 1-gig SD card (doesn't anybody have > them?) and also a USB extension cable or an SD card-reader. http://factorydirect.ca/catalog/product_spec.php?pcode=SE1000 They also have card readers. However this sort of thing is available from many sources. You couldn't have looked very hard. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:23:29 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:23:29 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42CA89D1.7090106@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you > are prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not > limited to: > > * Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any > purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up > login sessions from the same Sympatico user account. > * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service > requests from other hosts. > * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not > limited to *HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP*, ) > * Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. > * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. > Does Rogers also have the same limitation? With Rogers, you're not supposed to share with 3rd parties, however, that concurrent dial up is curious. If you have mulitple e-mail IDs on your account, are the other family members supposed to take turns dialing in? Causing problems for an internet host, penetrating hosts (without permission only) and forging IP headers should be enforced by all ISPs. I wonder why they specified TCP, instead of saying just IP. Are you allowed to do that with UDP? As for servers, Rogers also bans them, but they appear to be making a distinction between "servers" and remote access to your own network. Also, I get the impression that while servers are prohibited, they only react, if those servers are causing significant loads on the network. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:24:35 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 09:24:35 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <42CA8A13.8060601@rogers.com> John Vetterli wrote: > Did this make anyone else think of: > > "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of > the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as 'a bunch of mindless jerks who'll > be the first against the wall when the revolution comes,'" ... How is that different from real life? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:38:11 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 09:38:11 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 12:55:29AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > My apologies for posting this on a Linux list; but as I was setting up > FreeBSD on one of my laptops I had some issues getting remote access. > I just read this from the simpatico AUP. It seems they are enforcing it > through firewall policies. Does this mean that they can arbitrarily block > any inbound protocol/port? Many ISPs reserve the right to block ports at any time to stop worm breakouts and other sudden bandwidth eating problems. > In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you are > prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not limited to: > * Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any > purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up login > sessions from the same Sympatico user account. Pretty sure they have the same kind of restriction, although they only use the login for email. The cable modem doesn't use any login information. > * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service > requests from other hosts. Hmm, that's pretty badly worded. Does this mean if I have a 5Mbit connection and connect to an ftp server that has a 1.5Mbit link and download a file, thereby taking all the bandwidth, that I am violating the user agreement? It would make it harder for that ftp server to start serving someone else (although it should after a short delay start a session with someone else and start sharing the available bandwidth). > * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not limited > to HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP, ) Rogers certainly says the same. > * Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. Many ISPs have that one > * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. Hmm, I wonder what that means. Probably not a problem in general. > Does Rogers also have the same limitation? Certainly the important ones. If you want less restrictions, you have to go with a smaller, less beurocratic ISP (typically DSL provider). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:50:25 2005 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 09:50:25 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <20050705133811.GQ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050705135023.525D71214A1@acheron.ss.org> all of these rules and policies (for rogers and sympatico) depend on the type of service you have. i have a rogers business account - my agreement allows me to run servers. i also pay more than a standard residential account... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: July 5, 2005 9:38 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sympatico AUP On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 12:55:29AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > My apologies for posting this on a Linux list; but as I was setting up > FreeBSD on one of my laptops I had some issues getting remote access. > I just read this from the simpatico AUP. It seems they are enforcing it > through firewall policies. Does this mean that they can arbitrarily block > any inbound protocol/port? Many ISPs reserve the right to block ports at any time to stop worm breakouts and other sudden bandwidth eating problems. > In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you are > prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not limited to: > * Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any > purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up login > sessions from the same Sympatico user account. Pretty sure they have the same kind of restriction, although they only use the login for email. The cable modem doesn't use any login information. > * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service > requests from other hosts. Hmm, that's pretty badly worded. Does this mean if I have a 5Mbit connection and connect to an ftp server that has a 1.5Mbit link and download a file, thereby taking all the bandwidth, that I am violating the user agreement? It would make it harder for that ftp server to start serving someone else (although it should after a short delay start a session with someone else and start sharing the available bandwidth). > * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not limited > to HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP, ) Rogers certainly says the same. > * Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. Many ISPs have that one > * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. Hmm, I wonder what that means. Probably not a problem in general. > Does Rogers also have the same limitation? Certainly the important ones. If you want less restrictions, you have to go with a smaller, less beurocratic ISP (typically DSL provider). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 13:54:49 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 06:54:49 -0700 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <20050705135023.525D71214A1-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050705135023.525D71214A1@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: The IP header clause is so that NAT is a violation of the agreement at most ISPs. I've never seen one enforce it, but they do try to have the right to. -Joseph- On 7/5/05, Jon Thiele wrote: > > all of these rules and policies (for rogers and sympatico) depend on the > type of service you have. i have a rogers business account - my agreement > allows me to run servers. i also pay more than a standard residential > account... > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > Sorensen > Sent: July 5, 2005 9:38 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sympatico AUP > > On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 12:55:29AM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > My apologies for posting this on a Linux list; but as I was setting up > > FreeBSD on one of my laptops I had some issues getting remote access. > > I just read this from the simpatico AUP. It seems they are enforcing it > > through firewall policies. Does this mean that they can arbitrarily block > > any inbound protocol/port? > Many ISPs reserve the right to block ports at any time to stop worm > breakouts and other sudden bandwidth eating problems. > > > In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you are > > prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not limited > to: > > * Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any > > purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up login > > sessions from the same Sympatico user account. > Pretty sure they have the same kind of restriction, although they only > use the login for email. The cable modem doesn't use any login > information. > > > * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service > > requests from other hosts. > Hmm, that's pretty badly worded. Does this mean if I have a 5Mbit > connection and connect to an ftp server that has a 1.5Mbit link and > download a file, thereby taking all the bandwidth, that I am violating > the user agreement? It would make it harder for that ftp server to > start serving someone else (although it should after a short delay start > a session with someone else and start sharing the available bandwidth). > > > * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not limited > > to HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP, ) > Rogers certainly says the same. > > > * Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. > Many ISPs have that one > > > * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. > Hmm, I wonder what that means. Probably not a problem in general. > > > Does Rogers also have the same limitation? > Certainly the important ones. > > If you want less restrictions, you have to go with a smaller, less > beurocratic ISP (typically DSL provider). > > Lennart Sorensen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 16:06:16 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 12:06:16 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: References: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050705135023.525D71214A1@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <42CAAFF8.5000107@rogers.com> Joseph Kubik wrote: > The IP header clause is so that NAT is a violation of the agreement at > most ISPs. > I've never seen one enforce it, but they do try to have the right to. Or is it to prohibit spoofing? Using NAT is not "forging", in that forging is an attempt to deceive. It more likely is intended to prevent someone from claiming they have someone else's address. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 16:37:10 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 12:37:10 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: <20050705043533.GA7264-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050705163710.GR23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 12:35:33AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm looking for a place to buy a 1-gig SD card (doesn't anybody have > them?) and also a USB extension cable or an SD card-reader. And my > rant-of-the-day today is about the stupid USB extension cables that are > *DAMN* bright blue, and have an extremely annoying flicker whenever > transmitting data. The idiot who thought that up should be shot. I bought a 1GB SD card for $100 (after some mail in rebate) a few months ago (maybe 6 months) at staples. They had plenty (but you had to ask for it at the counter). > The reason I want the SD card is that I just got myself a Panasonic > FZ5 (5 megapixel) digicam. There are some tradeoffs. There is no > "manual focus" per se. But you can auto-focus on an object and lock the > focus to that length. On the plus side, its uncompressed format is > tiff, not some proprietary "raw" format that can only be accessed by a > proprietary Windows program. I never was a fan of tiff myself. Too many variants and extensions. It is however better supported than something with no support. Using some open raw format would be even better, as www.openraw.org is trying to get going (or at least they want camera makers to openly document their raw formats). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 18:13:24 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 21:13:24 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: <42CA8A13.8060601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> <42CA8A13.8060601@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, James Knott wrote: > John Vetterli wrote: > >> Did this make anyone else think of: >> >> "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of >> the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as 'a bunch of mindless jerks who'll >> be the first against the wall when the revolution comes,'" ... > > How is that different from real life? ;-) In real life they don't have the convenient end of the universe coming up to avoid explaining the cooked books and the Porsche. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 18:23:39 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:23:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <20050705133811.GQ23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service > > requests from other hosts. > Hmm, that's pretty badly worded. Does this mean if I have a 5Mbit I agree it is badly worded. Yet another example of someone trying to make a statement simpler by avoiding the correct technical term and ultimately just making their statemess less clear but no more simple. > connection and connect to an ftp server that has a 1.5Mbit link and > download a file, thereby taking all the bandwidth, that I am violating > the user agreement? It would make it harder for that ftp server to > start serving someone else (although it should after a short delay start > a session with someone else and start sharing the available bandwidth). In this case you aren't launching a Denial of Service attack (DoS). Without any other interference you would only be able to DoS the server if the server's TCP stack was totally broken. > > * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not limited > > to HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP, ) > Rogers certainly says the same. Yes, it seems they do accept ssh as a legitimate service to run for access to ones own hosts. > > * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. > Hmm, I wonder what that means. Probably not a problem in general. They are prohibiting spoofing. If they are an end-user ISP it is easy enough for them to deal effectively with spoof attempts (both ways) by dropping them at the border router. Interestingly they are also prohibiting NATting. I wonder if that is deliberate :) > If you want less restrictions, you have to go with a smaller, less > beurocratic ISP (typically DSL provider). Exactly. Like iStop was :) There are others. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x7x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 18:34:13 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: References: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > I agree it is badly worded. Yet another example of someone trying to make > a statement simpler by avoiding the correct technical term and ultimately > just making their statemess less clear but no more simple. ^^^^^^^^^ For the record I'd like to say the word "statemess"[1] was unintentional but I've decided I like this word and will now adopt it in common speach :) [1] I meant to write statement. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x7x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 18:46:49 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:46:49 -0400 Subject: Westlug Message-ID: How is the WestLug related to TLug? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 18:53:14 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:53:14 -0400 Subject: (HOWTO) NFS-root + thin-client + Slackware In-Reply-To: <20050621232729.GA2152-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050621232729.GA2152@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050705185314.GA12425@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 07:27:29PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Here is copy of what I posted to . ... It's now nicely formatted at http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#nfsroot -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 19:00:12 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 15:00:12 -0400 Subject: Westlug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200507051500.12925.jason@detachednetworks.ca> It consists of the members of TLUG who cannot possibly make it into downtown Toronto for the meetings, due to transportation or other commitments. WestTLUG or PHlug, Whatever the group is called, is a group of Linux enthusiasts gathered for conversation, problem solving, and general Linux information sharing. On July 5, 2005 02:46 pm, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > How is the WestLug related to TLug? -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 19:36:41 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 15:36:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Westlug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050705193641.95474.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I would think that a brief note about any Linux User Group meeting within say a 1.5 hour drive of downtown Toronto would be of interest / relevent to the members of TLUG. Further a Linux related conference or other very special event within say a 5 hour drive of Toronto could be of interest to many TLUG members. Granted in my case as someone who depends on public transit it would take something exceptional to get me out to an event even in say Hamilton, but it isn't out of the question. Likewise I would expect folks in Barrie Ontario to want to be aware (in summary form) of what is happening at TLUG as from time to time some of them might want to come to Toronto. So, in my books anyone who wants to post a brief note about other Linux meetings not too far from Toronto please do so. Colin McGregor --- Ansar Mohammed wrote: > How is the WestLug related to TLug? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 19:45:00 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 15:45:00 -0400 Subject: Westlug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050705194500.GA12700@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 02:46:49PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > > ------=_NextPart_000_0000_01C58170.5E7EB690 > Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0001_01C58170.5E7EB690" > > > ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C58170.5E7EB690 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > How is the WestLug related to TLug? WestTLUG is western satellite of GTALUG (formerly TLUG). It's for people who can't attend downtown meeting. > > ------=_NextPart_001_0001_01C58170.5E7EB690 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="us-ascii" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > xmlns:w=3D"urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" = > xmlns=3D"http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> > > > charset=3Dus-ascii"> > > > > > > > > > > style=3D'tab-interval:36.0pt'> > >
> >

style=3D'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Arial'>How is the WestLug = > related to class=3DSpellE>TLug?

> >
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Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 20:59:08 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 16:59:08 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> <42CA8A13.8060601@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42CAF49C.8010008@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > > On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, James Knott wrote: > >> John Vetterli wrote: >> >>> Did this make anyone else think of: >>> >>> "The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines the marketing division of >>> the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as 'a bunch of mindless jerks who'll >>> be the first against the wall when the revolution comes,'" ... >> >> How is that different from real life? ;-) > > In real life they don't have the convenient end of the universe coming > up to avoid explaining the cooked books and the Porsche. OK, so long as the answer is 42. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 21:04:08 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:04:08 -0400 Subject: Westlug In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42CAF5C8.4060200@rogers.com> Ansar Mohammed wrote: > How is the WestLug related to TLug? > It's further west. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 21:05:56 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:05:56 -0400 Subject: Westlug In-Reply-To: <200507051500.12925.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200507051500.12925.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <42CAF634.3070707@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > It consists of the members of TLUG who cannot possibly make it into downtown > Toronto for the meetings, due to transportation or other commitments. Does that mean I'm not welcome? I can make it to downtown Toronto. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 21:15:35 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:15:35 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <42CA89D1.7090106-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42CA89D1.7090106@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42CAF877.90505@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Knott wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > >>In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you >>are prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not >>limited to: >> >> * Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any >> purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up >> login sessions from the same Sympatico user account. >> * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service >> requests from other hosts. >> * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not >> limited to *HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP*, ) >> * Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. >> * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. > > >>Does Rogers also have the same limitation? > > > With Rogers, you're not supposed to share with 3rd parties, however, > that concurrent dial up is curious. If you have mulitple e-mail IDs on > your account, are the other family members supposed to take turns > dialing in? > > Causing problems for an internet host, penetrating hosts (without > permission only) and forging IP headers should be enforced by all ISPs. > I wonder why they specified TCP, instead of saying just IP. Are you > allowed to do that with UDP? TCP/IP could be considered an either/or. Since TCP & UDP packets are by definition IP packets, this is a pretty broad definition. > As for servers, Rogers also bans them, but they appear to be making a > distinction between "servers" and remote access to your own network. No. They have given examples of servers you are not to run, but the prohibition is clearly "not limited to" these. That they haven't mentioned ssh or vnc is no reason to assume that they're not included, despite wording to the contrary. > Also, I get the impression that while servers are prohibited, they only > react, if those servers are causing significant loads on the network. Sure they'll notice excessive usage. And last I checked, Rogers had two active network scanners looking for open mail, news and web ports. You should be able to find their IPs with a quick google. I used to get scanned at least once a week. I happen to agree with their position. If you want to run servers, lease a box in co-lo or buy a service package which supports it. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCyvh3gfzn5SevSpoRAr1mAJ94mkaIdsnROshQ8RyMGMH/kiFaDQCgmIid 0J30k7o6403YBPDhrqj/aFM= =Wn4j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 22:15:53 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:15:53 +0000 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: References: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050705221553.457c00c1.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 14:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Robert Brockway disseminated the following: > > I agree it is badly worded. Yet another example of someone trying to make > > a statement simpler by avoiding the correct technical term and ultimately > > just making their statemess less clear but no more simple. > ^^^^^^^^^ > For the record I'd like to say the word "statemess"[1] was unintentional > but I've decided I like this word and will now adopt it in common speach > :) Iiiiiiii LIKE it!! I myself have made many statemesses... ;) aaaaand I'm assuming you mean 'speech'? Did you just buy a new keyboard or something? :-) -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 22:12:17 up 134 days, 19:28, 6 users, load average: 0.14, 0.06, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Call on God, but row away from the rocks." -- Hunter S. Thompson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 22:31:42 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:31:42 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <42CAF877.90505-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CA89D1.7090106@rogers.com> <42CAF877.90505@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050705223142.GA14524@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 05:15:35PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > James Knott wrote: > > Also, I get the impression that while servers are prohibited, they only > > react, if those servers are causing significant loads on the network. > > Sure they'll notice excessive usage. And last I checked, Rogers had two > active network scanners looking for open mail, news and web ports. You > should be able to find their IPs with a quick google. I used to get > scanned at least once a week. > > I happen to agree with their position. If you want to run servers, lease > a box in co-lo or buy a service package which supports it. So, you figure that people who want to and can run their own services without using the ISP handholding should pay business rates? Double the price for not using *their* services? My "server" is simply an SMTP server so that I can use my own domain name for email and not have to track down every person who sends me email and inform them whenever I change ISPs. (I've only changed ISPs once so far - from Bell/Sympatico to eol.ca a few years back when, after 5 years of service, Sympatico started blocking my incoming mail without any warning, and compounded the problem when their service personnel told me that they were not doing so.) Oh, and I also have provided an ftp "server" in the past at times when I wanted to transfer files to/from work. All of my "servers" together for a year provide less bandwidth usage than a single ISO download. Blocking servers, from my point of view, is punishing a large group of customers for the sins of a few, rather than figuring out how to block just the actual problem cases. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 22:25:10 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:25:10 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <42CAF877.90505-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CA89D1.7090106@rogers.com> <42CAF877.90505@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <42CB08C6.3010904@rogers.com> Andrew Hammond wrote: > Sure they'll notice excessive usage. And last I checked, Rogers had two > active network scanners looking for open mail, news and web ports. You > should be able to find their IPs with a quick google. I used to get > scanned at least once a week. One nice thing about udp based vpn's, is that they're hard to scan for. A non-responding upd port looks exactly like one that's blocked by a firewall, that is no response whatsoever. > > I happen to agree with their position. If you want to run servers, lease > a box in co-lo or buy a service package which supports it. I fully support the ban on public servers, as they may generate excessive traffic. But what about ssh or vpn access to one's network? Is that in fact a "server"? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 22:44:28 2005 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Tue, 05 Jul 2005 18:44:28 -0400 Subject: Card reader/writer Message-ID: HI All, I have just aquired a 3 track card reader/writer from magtek. I am trying to find sofware to read and write cards with the device. So far i've found stripe snoop but it only works on raw data from stdin and game port. The reader/writer in question happens to have a paralel interface. Any idea on which software I could use? I guess if there's no software it'd be great if I could get pointed on how to make the software myself. Ei, ways to analyse the info coming in, how to open lpt1 for reading etc... Thanks! Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 22:58:10 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 18:58:10 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: <20050705043533.GA7264-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050705225810.GA2426@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Canada Computers has had 1Gb SD cards in stock pretty regularly for a while now, at just under the $100 price point. I would definitely look around for a SD card reader, but again, computer stores are far far cheaper than camera stores. I would be sure to get a USB 2 reader - I bought a USB 1.0 reader, and it works great, but moving stuff across is way slower than USB 2. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Jul 5 23:20:57 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 19:20:57 -0400 Subject: Card reader/writer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here is a c library for direct I/O to the paralell interface. It may help. http://parapin.sourceforge.net/doc/parapin.html -Joseph- On 7/5/05, Martin Duclos wrote: > HI All, > I have just aquired a 3 track card reader/writer from magtek. I am trying to > find sofware to read and write cards with the device. So far i've found > stripe snoop but it only works on raw data from stdin and game port. The > reader/writer in question happens to have a paralel interface. Any idea on > which software I could use? I guess if there's no software it'd be great if > I could get pointed on how to make the software myself. Ei, ways to analyse > the info coming in, how to open lpt1 for reading etc... > Thanks! > Martin > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 01:22:16 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 21:22:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <20050705221553.457c00c1.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705133811.GQ23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050705221553.457c00c1.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, JoeHill wrote: > Iiiiiiii LIKE it!! I myself have made many statemesses... ;) Haven't we all :) > aaaaand I'm assuming you mean 'speech'? Did you just buy a new keyboard or > something? :-) Ah yeah what Joe said :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x7x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 02:34:47 2005 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 22:34:47 -0400 Subject: Westlug In-Reply-To: <42CAF634.3070707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42CAF634.3070707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050706023453.340E01215B9@acheron.ss.org> You are more than welcome whether you can or can't make it to downtown Toronto. The more the merrier. Frank in Mississauga -----Original Message----- Does that mean I'm not welcome? I can make it to downtown Toronto. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 03:08:21 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:08:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <42CB08C6.3010904-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42CB08C6.3010904@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, James Knott wrote: > I fully support the ban on public servers, as they may generate > excessive traffic. But what about ssh or vpn access to one's network? > Is that in fact a "server"? Entirely a matter of definitions. It *does* flag you as a sophisticated user, who arguably might be making greater than usual demands on the network. Anything that clearly puts you in a different category from Jane Doe with her single PC and web browser is an excuse to shake you down for more money. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 03:51:48 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2005 23:51:48 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <42CAF877.90505-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CAF877.90505@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: I guess the issue is that there was no indication from simpatico that there were these restrictions on their DSL service. Also, they are actually BLOCKING the connections.. it is not just in their policy. Does rogers also block these ports? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hammond Sent: July 5, 2005 5:16 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sympatico AUP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 James Knott wrote: > Ansar Mohammed wrote: > > >>In addition to these Policies, while using your Sympatico account, you >>are prohibited from conducting activities that include, but are not >>limited to: >> >> * Sharing of your Sympatico user account UserID and password for any >> purpose, including, without limitation, for concurrent dial up >> login sessions from the same Sympatico user account. >> * Causing an Internet host to become unable to effectively service >> requests from other hosts. >> * Running and/or hosting Server Applications including but not >> limited to *HTTP, FTP, POP, SMTP, Proxy/SOCKS, NNTP*, ) >> * Analyzing or penetrating an Internet host's security mechanisms. >> * Forging any part of the TCP/IP packet headers in any way. > > >>Does Rogers also have the same limitation? > > > With Rogers, you're not supposed to share with 3rd parties, however, > that concurrent dial up is curious. If you have mulitple e-mail IDs on > your account, are the other family members supposed to take turns > dialing in? > > Causing problems for an internet host, penetrating hosts (without > permission only) and forging IP headers should be enforced by all ISPs. > I wonder why they specified TCP, instead of saying just IP. Are you > allowed to do that with UDP? TCP/IP could be considered an either/or. Since TCP & UDP packets are by definition IP packets, this is a pretty broad definition. > As for servers, Rogers also bans them, but they appear to be making a > distinction between "servers" and remote access to your own network. No. They have given examples of servers you are not to run, but the prohibition is clearly "not limited to" these. That they haven't mentioned ssh or vnc is no reason to assume that they're not included, despite wording to the contrary. > Also, I get the impression that while servers are prohibited, they only > react, if those servers are causing significant loads on the network. Sure they'll notice excessive usage. And last I checked, Rogers had two active network scanners looking for open mail, news and web ports. You should be able to find their IPs with a quick google. I used to get scanned at least once a week. I happen to agree with their position. If you want to run servers, lease a box in co-lo or buy a service package which supports it. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCyvh3gfzn5SevSpoRAr1mAJ94mkaIdsnROshQ8RyMGMH/kiFaDQCgmIid 0J30k7o6403YBPDhrqj/aFM= =Wn4j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 04:37:59 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 00:37:59 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <20050705223142.GA14524-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42CA89D1.7090106@rogers.com> <42CAF877.90505@ca.afilias.info> <20050705223142.GA14524@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <42CB6027.1050605@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John Macdonald wrote: > On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 05:15:35PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>Hash: SHA1 >> >>James Knott wrote: >> >>>Also, I get the impression that while servers are prohibited, they only >>>react, if those servers are causing significant loads on the network. >> >>Sure they'll notice excessive usage. And last I checked, Rogers had two >>active network scanners looking for open mail, news and web ports. You >>should be able to find their IPs with a quick google. I used to get >>scanned at least once a week. >> >>I happen to agree with their position. If you want to run servers, lease >>a box in co-lo or buy a service package which supports it. > > So, you figure that people who want to and can run their own > services without using the ISP handholding should pay business > rates? Double the price for not using *their* services? Yes. Or find a provider who offers a package you would find appropriate. Breaking a contract is never a good idea. Doing it with demonstrable intent and forethought is plain stupid. > My "server" is simply an SMTP server so that I can use my own > domain name for email and not have to track down every person > who sends me email and inform them whenever I change ISPs. > (I've only changed ISPs once so far - from Bell/Sympatico > to eol.ca a few years back when, after 5 years of service, > Sympatico started blocking my incoming mail without any warning, > and compounded the problem when their service personnel told > me that they were not doing so.) So... they blocked inbound to port 25, something which according to your contract should always be bogus traffic, and you complain? I agree that their techs should have been more clueful on the subject, but there's only so much you can fit into a script-reader. > Oh, and I also have provided an ftp "server" in the past at > times when I wanted to transfer files to/from work. > > All of my "servers" together for a year provide less bandwidth > usage than a single ISO download. > > Blocking servers, from my point of view, is punishing a large > group of customers for the sins of a few, rather than figuring > out how to block just the actual problem cases. So you figure instead of putting a simple rule into their firewall and dealing with the problem in a somewhat pro-active way, they should dedicate system or network admin time to chasing down stuff after it's already caused problems? I'd like to point out that the vast majority of people who set up servers do _not_ know what they're doing. Most of them don't even know they've set up a server. They do not spend sufficient time securing and maintaining them. I'm actually glad to finally see the larger ISPs start trying to address this issue. Blocking servers is actually addressing the needs of their target demographic effectively. The typical point and click user doesn't want to run servers and shouldn't either. Since you're not part of the target demographic, it's unsuprising your needs aren't being met very well. However, consider that the economies of scale which make high speed internet is so cheap exist precisely because there are so many "end users". - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCy2Amgfzn5SevSpoRAqtoAJ9KkNHdaybtbhgMvAe56Fke9tlcKwCeM7WG GikgIOBNCPlwrxPfxdJmJJY= =YnUP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 11:20:40 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 07:20:40 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42CBBE88.9090802@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 5 Jul 2005, James Knott wrote: >>I fully support the ban on public servers, as they may generate >>excessive traffic. But what about ssh or vpn access to one's network? >>Is that in fact a "server"? > > Entirely a matter of definitions. > > It *does* flag you as a sophisticated user, who arguably might be making > greater than usual demands on the network. Anything that clearly puts you > in a different category from Jane Doe with her single PC and web browser > is an excuse to shake you down for more money. Would that be the Jane Doe who's always downloading music & video files and spending hours in chat rooms? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 11:38:10 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 07:38:10 -0400 Subject: Sympatico AUP In-Reply-To: <42CB6027.1050605-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CA89D1.7090106@rogers.com> <42CAF877.90505@ca.afilias.info> <20050705223142.GA14524@lupus.perlwolf.com> <42CB6027.1050605@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050706113810.GA16331@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 12:37:59AM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > John Macdonald wrote: > > On Tue, Jul 05, 2005 at 05:15:35PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > >>I happen to agree with their position. If you want to run servers, lease > >>a box in co-lo or buy a service package which supports it. > > > > So, you figure that people who want to and can run their own > > services without using the ISP handholding should pay business > > rates? Double the price for not using *their* services? > > Yes. Or find a provider who offers a package you would find appropriate. > Breaking a contract is never a good idea. Doing it with demonstrable > intent and forethought is plain stupid. Sympatico changed their AUP after I had been a customer for a couple of years - originally I chose them over Rogers *because* their AUP did not prohibit running servers. Rogers and Sympatico were the only two choices possible at that time (1997 or so). The change went in stages. First they changed their AUP to make it their perogative to block some services; later they started blocking outgoing SMTP (which meant that you had to send outgoing email through their server and they thus had a chance to tag it and monitor it, but it could still refer to your private domain). About 3 years later, with no warning, they started blocking incoming SMTP - which prevents you from operating your own domain. They were the ones who broke our original agreement, with intent and forethought. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 11:27:11 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 07:27:11 -0400 Subject: Digicam peripherals? In-Reply-To: <20050705043533.GA7264-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050705043533.GA7264@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <42CBC00F.6030302@sympatico.ca> Walter Dnes wrote: > > On the plus side, its uncompressed format is > tiff, not some proprietary "raw" format that can only be accessed by a > proprietary Windows program. Actually, most of the proprietary raw decoders are based on Dave Coffin's free tool, dcraw: . It's best used with some kind of graphical front end, as fiddling with colour correction on the command line is a pain. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 13:42:34 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:42:34 -0400 Subject: Sympatico Email Message-ID: <20050706094234.5538be0e.hgibson@eol.ca> Does anyone know how to get Sympatico to accept Linux email? A friend of mine has installed Linux on a new computer. He is receiving email, but Sympatico rejects his attempts to send it. Their help line is not helping. Does anybody know the Sympatico email setup for Firefox and Thunderbird? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 14:00:03 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 10:00:03 -0400 Subject: Sympatico Email In-Reply-To: <20050706094234.5538be0e.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706094234.5538be0e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <42CBE3E3.5080903@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > Does anyone know how to get Sympatico to accept Linux email? > > A friend of mine has installed Linux on a new computer. He is receiving email, but Sympatico rejects his attempts to send it. Their help line is not helping. > > Does anybody know the Sympatico email setup for Firefox and Thunderbird? > Do they not provide standard pop and smtp info? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 14:20:56 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 10:20:56 -0400 Subject: Sympatico Mail Message-ID: <42CBE8C8.5000509@rogers.com> In the account settings, for the outgoing server (SMTP) have your friend change the security setting to "use TLS, if available" . Also he probably will be prompted for his password (same as for POP3). Sympatico has allowed those "on paper" techs from its partner, Microsoft, to screw up its email service even further and its one of the main reasons why I left. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 15:04:14 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 09:04:14 -0600 Subject: Sympatico Email In-Reply-To: <20050706094234.5538be0e.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706094234.5538be0e.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On 7/6/05, Howard Gibson wrote: > Does anyone know how to get Sympatico to accept Linux email? > > A friend of mine has installed Linux on a new computer. He is receiving email, but Sympatico rejects his attempts to send it. Their help line is not helping. > > Does anybody know the Sympatico email setup for Firefox and Thunderbird? Sure .. just like any other platform, set your SMTP server to smtp1.sympatico.ca, enter your userid and password, and you're sending E-Mail. Alex ps smtp8 also works as an SMTP server. -- ---------- Linux, Firefox and GMail .. what a combination. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 16:23:40 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 12:23:40 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? Message-ID: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> Hello all! I've been running two slackware boxes (headless) to the side of my desk. One is a p2 with 333mhz, the other is a p3 with 600 mhz. The better box (600mhz) has always given my problems. It shuts down randomly. I ave frequent kernel panics. So after school finished, I decided to take a good look at the box. One error I noticed was something to do with a rambus error. So i took out one stick of ram, and tested the other. Vice versa. I found out that the 128 stick was the busted one :( (I think). But the box is still active very weird. I hates the ubuntu install, and cant even load mandrake. Slackware seems to be the only distro it will handle. Regardless, there is some wonky hardware in it. and I need to find out what the problem is. And suggestions? Thanks! -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 17:26:47 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:26:47 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42CC1457.7080106@utoronto.ca> Adam Raymond wrote: >Hello all! > >I've been running two slackware boxes (headless) to the side of my >desk. One is a p2 with 333mhz, the other is a p3 with 600 mhz. The >better box (600mhz) has always given my problems. It shuts down >randomly. I ave frequent kernel panics. So after school finished, I >decided to take a good look at the box. One error I noticed was >something to do with a rambus error. So i took out one stick of ram, >and tested the other. Vice versa. I found out that the 128 stick was >the busted one :( (I think). But the box is still active very weird. I >hates the ubuntu install, and cant even load mandrake. Slackware seems >to be the only distro it will handle. > >Regardless, there is some wonky hardware in it. and I need to find out >what the problem is. > >And suggestions? > >Thanks! > > Well, you can try to rule out the memory by running memtest86. I once had chronic kernel panics which I traced down to the CPU overheating so checking the fans and ventilation might be something to try. Good luck. Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 17:28:55 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:28:55 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <42CC1457.7080106-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> <42CC1457.7080106@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <34e8a43d050706102865858b36@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > Well, you can try to rule out the memory by running memtest86. I once > had chronic kernel panics which I traced down to the CPU overheating so > checking the fans and ventilation might be something to try. > > Good luck. > > Regards, > Marcus Ill try the memtest86. However I don't know if the CPU is overheating. I have both of the sides off. However I did hear that taking/leaving the sides off disrupts air flow, so indeed the cpu might still be overheating. Is this true? -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 17:14:05 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:14:05 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? Message-ID: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What do "our community" get from us? This issue came up recently, and I can't think of any answer off top of my head. Since we aren't doing anything now, perhaps, the question should be re-phrased, What TLUG should be doing? Any thought? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 17:41:44 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 13:41:44 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050706102865858b36-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> <42CC1457.7080106@utoronto.ca> <34e8a43d050706102865858b36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42CC17D8.2070106@utoronto.ca> Adam Raymond wrote: >On 7/6/05, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > > >>Well, you can try to rule out the memory by running memtest86. I once >>had chronic kernel panics which I traced down to the CPU overheating so >>checking the fans and ventilation might be something to try. >> >>Good luck. >> >>Regards, >>Marcus >> >> > >Ill try the memtest86. However I don't know if the CPU is overheating. >I have both of the sides off. However I did hear that taking/leaving >the sides off disrupts air flow, so indeed the cpu might still be >overheating. Is this true? > > I've heard that as well, not sure how true it is. My experience has generally been to the contrary but that is limited to older machines where cooling was not such an issue. What kinds of error messages do you get when you try to install Ubuntu and Mandrake? Are there any odd messages in /var/log/*? Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 17:57:33 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050706171405.GA2260-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What > do "our community" get from us? > > This issue came up recently, and I can't think of any answer off top of > my head. Since we aren't doing anything now, perhaps, the question > should be re-phrased, > What TLUG should be doing? > > Any thought? TLUG is a users group of hobbysts and professionals. People show up because they like what the other people showing up are doing. The community is the service. Right? -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 18:02:32 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:02:32 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <42CC17D8.2070106-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> <42CC1457.7080106@utoronto.ca> <34e8a43d050706102865858b36@mail.gmail.com> <42CC17D8.2070106@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <34e8a43d0507061102b03f3d5@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > I've heard that as well, not sure how true it is. My experience has > generally been to the contrary but that is limited to older machines > where cooling was not such an issue. What kinds of error messages do > you get when you try to install Ubuntu and Mandrake? Are there any odd > messages in /var/log/*? > > Regards, > Marcus In syslog im seeing a lot of errors to do with hotplug (which loads on boot). I wont really be needing hotplug, so how can I disable this? -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 18:37:21 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 06 Jul 2005 14:37:21 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org writes: > > What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What > > do "our community" get from us? > > TLUG is a users group of hobbysts and professionals. People show up > because they like what the other people showing up are doing. > > The community is the service. > Right? Wrong. William, I believe, is referring to the incorped GTALUG Inc. that has been going around and collecting membership fees from people at TLUG and NewTLUG and Linux World but have yet to say publicly what the money is for, who is running GTALUG (the biz), why they think that they represent TLUG and NewTLUG (and now westlug [or phlug??? are they the same]) plus a bunch of other questions. In fact, I think that IBM has asked them to stop the membership drive at the IBM meeting location for NewTLUG until such information comes forth. Hope this clarifies the question. It probably raises many more, though ;) Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 18:41:46 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:41:46 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050706171405.GA2260-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 7/6/05, William Park wrote: > What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What > do "our community" get from us? > > This issue came up recently, and I can't think of any answer off top of > my head. Since we aren't doing anything now, perhaps, the question > should be re-phrased, > What TLUG should be doing? > > Any thought? It is a community for those that are interested in Linux. By providing a way for those people to get together, it provides "value" to the community at large. This is exactly the fashion in which any "interest group" or "user group" is valuable to the community at large. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 18:52:36 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 14:52:36 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d0507061102b03f3d5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> <42CC1457.7080106@utoronto.ca> <34e8a43d050706102865858b36@mail.gmail.com> <42CC17D8.2070106@utoronto.ca> <34e8a43d0507061102b03f3d5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: It may also be an issue of an underpowered/dying power supply. A friend of mine installed his own video card into one of the commercial PrettyBoxes, and it sucked the PS dry. The only way to make the box stable was to get a more powerful PS (which stuck out the back, because the one that came with the box was undersized as well as underpowered). Also, if the power supply is cheap, it may make the computer more sensitive to dirty power. If you can, try running the computer off of a UPS and see if that improves things. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 18:54:32 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 13:54:32 -0500 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: > What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What > do "our community" get from us? I know I've been incognito for a while (and for really excellent reasons), but I'd like to add a quick comment to this. It appears to be that the only service which GTALUG is presently particularly concerned about is the collective which it represents. That is to say that GTALUG is all about GTALUG participants. It's a support group, a think tank, a shared hobby. Although there have been obvious murmers to extend its reach, there has not appeared to me to be any other reason for its existance. I would say that this GTALUG thing is young, and just beginning to stand. I feel this is especially true because of the existance of any scrap of doubt as to why it exists. This leaves a great opportunity for just about anyone to step up and say "I am about helping convert Windows castaways to Linux", and for sufficiant others to agree to form some kind of purpose to the body at large. Again, I think GTALUG is about its people, and there are a few common trends in them but no manifesto. Perhaps there should be a writing contest of some kind? * Submit a written manifesto describing the value and purpose of the group. * Define activities which focus the group towards those means. * Outline a timeline of activities and expected outcomes. ... Something like this is indeed possible, of course, and may even be successful. Heck, there could even be a general assembly to vote on a manifesto. However, I will say that as one of the Ruby usergroup members, it has been exceedingly successful because of a resistance to this concept in preference for "we have meetings to unwind and help oneanother". Is such a relaxed concept applicable to GTALUG? Of course not, the membership is too big! It does, however, exist in small pockets of membership.. for example in the form of exec meetings, linuxcaffe meetings or the after-meeting-meeting at the pub. I think some kind of written "purpose" would be useful at least for me, because it would give me an understanding of what I can do to help, and why. Without strong leadership, I'd just keep surfing the wave of apathy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 19:12:37 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 15:12:37 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050706191237.GS23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 12:23:40PM -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > I've been running two slackware boxes (headless) to the side of my > desk. One is a p2 with 333mhz, the other is a p3 with 600 mhz. The > better box (600mhz) has always given my problems. It shuts down > randomly. I ave frequent kernel panics. So after school finished, I > decided to take a good look at the box. One error I noticed was > something to do with a rambus error. So i took out one stick of ram, > and tested the other. Vice versa. I found out that the 128 stick was > the busted one :( (I think). But the box is still active very weird. I > hates the ubuntu install, and cant even load mandrake. Slackware seems > to be the only distro it will handle. > > Regardless, there is some wonky hardware in it. and I need to find out > what the problem is. What chipset is that machine using? I remember there was an intel chipset (the i820 if I remember right) that was designed for Rambus memory, but had a rambus to sdram convertor chip on the board so it could use sdram dimms instead. That convertor chip turned out to almost never be stable and the chipset was eventually recalled. A lot of boards makers ended up replacing a whole lot of mainboards because of that (especially asus that had made hundreds of thousands of these boards, over half the taol according to what I read at the time). Not one of intel's proudest moments in chip design. If that is what is in that system, don't expect it to ever work correctly. Other than that, I can't imagine how you could get a rambus error unless the system actually uses rambus memory in which case you spent too much when you got that machine. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From keith-RAGZEOY8Uu3QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 19:54:43 2005 From: keith-RAGZEOY8Uu3QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Keith Conception) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 15:54:43 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? Message-ID: <06376792d7bb730a649782f139529dca@dscope.com> Does your cpu have a fan on the heatsink? If so then removing the side shouldn't make a difference. Just make sure the fan is running properly. As for the ram, I've had problems where 2 (sticks) would cause problems but by themselves would work fine. You might what to try just one ram. Keith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 20:00:42 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:00:42 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <06376792d7bb730a649782f139529dca-RAGZEOY8Uu3QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <06376792d7bb730a649782f139529dca@dscope.com> Message-ID: <34e8a43d05070613001ef72676@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, Keith Conception wrote: > Does your cpu have a fan on the heatsink? If so then removing the side shouldn't make a difference. > Just make sure the fan is running properly. > As for the ram, I've had problems where 2 (sticks) would cause problems but by themselves would work fine. > You might what to try just one ram. > > Keith Right now I am using just one stick of ram. But the pc keeps freezing on me. After 10 minutes or so of booting it up. Im starting to thing its either the powerbar, or the PSU. -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 20:38:52 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:38:52 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 02:37:21PM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org writes: > > > What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What > > > do "our community" get from us? > > > > TLUG is a users group of hobbysts and professionals. People show up > > because they like what the other people showing up are doing. > > > > The community is the service. > > Right? > > Wrong. > > William, I believe, is referring to the incorped GTALUG Inc. that has been > going around and collecting membership fees from people at TLUG and NewTLUG > and Linux World but have yet to say publicly what the money is for, who is > running GTALUG (the biz), why they think that they represent TLUG and NewTLUG > (and now westlug [or phlug??? are they the same]) plus a bunch of other questions. It started as PHLUG, but it was already taken, so it's WestTLUG for now. > > In fact, I think that IBM has asked them to stop the membership drive at the > IBM meeting location for NewTLUG until such information comes forth. > > Hope this clarifies the question. It probably raises many more, though ;) I didn't know that. But, the issue is about money (ain't it always). We should be providing a concrete service to our community. But, we don't have any "service" to provide and don't have "community" to provide the service to. Having something on these 2 fronts would go long way. Here is my thought on services we can provide: - group rate on ISP accounts. Recently, there was flurry of activities about getting ISP account. Perhaps, if we can get committment from 50 people (for example), then we could go to local ISP for group deal. Everybody benefits, discount for us and more business for the ISP. - group rate on computer parts. Again, everybody has bought computer parts in the past. But, if we can make a deal with local store/supplier for group deal, then everybody can benefit. Savings for us and more business for the store. - Linux courses or tutorials. I would like to see a relationship developed with community colleges and other schools. We can certainly help them put together "Introduction to Linux" course. Perhaps, provide instructors for their courses. Our collective expertise is pretty impressive, so we should be able to use it at something. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 21:00:51 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 06 Jul 2005 17:00:51 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050706203852.GA21544-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: William Park writes: > Here is my thought on services we can provide: The one that I've been _very_ slowly working on with some other guys is called 'Adopt an NGO' (actually, it's been shortened to 'Adopt'). It isn't really defined in 'print' yet but the wiki page is at: http://www.linux.ca/twiki/bin/view/Programmes/WebHome The basic premise is to match volunteers with non-profits (or other monetarily challenged orgs). The volunteers agree to some SOW that is manageable and time limited. After that the NGO can keep the solution and support themselves, contract the volunteers to do so, or find other support resources. Or dump it. The benefits for this are: - the NGO can try out OSS solutions with less risk to themselves - the volunteers can, hopefully, find some consulting/support work from happy referrals or the NGO itself (or just feel good about helping out). The latter benefit was to help the occasional posters that I see here about "hey, we know a lot. Let's group together and do some consulting." which is inevitably followed by the "ummm, does anyone have any clients?" part. Hopefully, this will eliminate the chicken/egg problem for some people. Anyway, there's also an adopt mailing list that anyone can join: http://www.linux.ca/mailman/listinfo/adopt/ It's been very quiet lately but I'm hoping to see the programme launch by the end of the year. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 22:00:42 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 18:00:42 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? Message-ID: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> I'm shopping for a dedicated server right now and I'm a little amazed at the price difference between hosting companies in Canada which seem to run between $200 to $400+ US/mo and companies like Serverbeach in the US which have comparable offerings starting at $79 US/mo.? What's up with this? Rob Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 -- Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 22:10:00 2005 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:10:00 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <42CC548A.3020606-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <20050706221000.GA4422@localhost> I needed to host a client on a dedicated service in Canada due to possible legal issue with respect to file sharing (they were doing). [so we didnt want to host in US] I researched and found Netnation to be the best value 500 GB / month, 160GB Raid, or 320 GB non-raid, 2.8 GHZ, etc,etc, (250$/mon or around that) It all seems to boils down to Harddrive space, i found a place in the US for 100$USD/month for 3.5TB transfer but only 40GB HD, where as Netnation is 500GB transfer but 320 GB HD, seems to me you have to decide exactly what HD requirement you need, then choose, but US does seem to have better economies of scale at some hosting companies POPs, with respect to their bandwidth. As well the US has always been more of a "all you can eat" in nature, so they tend to have better "you can used big bandwith" deals!, knowing a lot of the time people don't follow through and use as much BW as they think they might use. If you need big HD space, nothing else I saw even came close to Netnation at 250$/mon for 320 GB of HD storage. For $79.00 i would be very leery of quality of BW, service contract and reliablity, in addition to stability (i.e. are they going out of business tomorrow). -tl On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 06:00:42PM -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote: > I'm shopping for a dedicated server right now and I'm a little amazed at > the price difference between > hosting companies in Canada which seem to run between $200 to $400+ > US/mo and companies like > Serverbeach in the US which have comparable offerings starting at $79 > US/mo.? What's up with this? > > Rob > > Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org > Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com > Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 > -- > Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! > http://www.getfirefox.com/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 22:31:07 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 18:31:07 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <20050706221000.GA4422@localhost> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <20050706221000.GA4422@localhost> Message-ID: <42CC5BAB.6090700@cheapersafer.com> ted leslie wrote: >I needed to host a client on a dedicated service in Canada due to possible legal issue >with respect to file sharing (they were doing). [so we didnt want to host in US] >I researched and found Netnation to be the best value 500 GB / month, 160GB Raid, or 320 GB non-raid, >2.8 GHZ, etc,etc, (250$/mon or around that) > > It's interesting - when you get up into that size of hard drive, they start to converge - ie serverbeach.com has a 2 X AMD Athlon MP 2600 Processor 2GB Registered PC2100 Memory 2 X 80 GB Hard Drive 2000 GB Bandwidth for $219/US but what I don't seem to see are cheap lower end systems in Canada, that $79/US/mo price is for a 1GHz AMD Processor 512MB Memory 60 GB Hard Drive 900 GB Bandwidth oops, there's one in Alberta that has a 40GB hd, 20GB bandwidth for $119/US/mo but it's Windows only :-( > >seems to me you have to decide exactly what HD requirement you need, then choose, > > > I only need around 60-80Gb Rob Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 -- Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 22:50:22 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 18:50:22 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050706203852.GA21544-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>; from opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org on Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 04:38:52PM -0400 References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> > I didn't know that. But, the issue is about money (ain't it always). > We should be providing a concrete service to our community. But, we > don't have any "service" to provide and don't have "community" to > provide the service to. Having something on these 2 fronts would go > long way. > There are quite a few services that TLUG provides: This mailing list, finding volunteers to do presentations, running the meetings, promoting linux to organizations that ask, etc ... The problem is that these services are provided for free and thus many people on the list see them as having no value. This reminds me of the scene from the Life of Brian. "What have the Roman's ever done for us?" > > - group rate on ISP accounts. Recently, there was flurry of > activities about getting ISP account. Perhaps, if we can get > committment from 50 people (for example), then we could go to > local ISP for group deal. Everybody benefits, discount for us and > more business for the ISP. > > - group rate on computer parts. Again, everybody has bought > computer parts in the past. But, if we can make a deal with local > store/supplier for group deal, then everybody can benefit. > Savings for us and more business for the store. > > - Linux courses or tutorials. I would like to see a relationship > developed with community colleges and other schools. We can > certainly help them put together "Introduction to Linux" course. > Perhaps, provide instructors for their courses. Our collective > expertise is pretty impressive, so we should be able to use it at > something. > These are all excellent ideas. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 23:17:32 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 06 Jul 2005 19:17:32 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050706185022.B4435-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org writes: > There are quite a few services that TLUG provides: > > This mailing list, finding volunteers to do presentations, running the > meetings, promoting linux to organizations that ask, etc ... > > The problem is that these services are provided for free and thus many > people on the list see them as having no value. Bill, I think that you are side-stepping a CRITICAL issue here. Could you explain what the membership fees to GTALUG are being used for? I'm happy to join GTALUG once I find out what the heck is going on. I even helped raise the initial money to found GTALUG. However, the last time that I was in on an incorporation meeting I asked: 10 MATT: Why are we incorporating? 20 RESPONSE: So that we can collect money to pay for things. 30 MATT: What things do we need to pay for? 40 RESPONSE: Accounting for the incorp and other things we want to do. 50 MATT: So what do we want to do that we need to pay for? 60 RESPONSE: Well, nothing that we can think of offhand. 70 GOTO 10 I haven't been invited to a meeting in a loooong time ;) So far everything is free and looks like it will be so for the foreseeable future. Heck, I'm hosting NewTLUG's web site and mailing lists. Happy to do so for TLUG, too, if it becomes onerous for Drew. So can you answer the big question of what is going on with this GTALUG beast that no one knows anything about but still requires care and feeding? It has been months (a year?) since people started collecting membership fees and still no word on what this is all about. Of course, this also gets to the question "where did GTALUG get the idea that": GTALUG = incorp + TLUG + NewTLUG + westlug because that seems to be the representations that is being made and may be news to Herb (NewTLUG) and Bill (westlug). I'm not trying to be belligerent. I would just like to hear something from someone at GTALUG. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 20:08:35 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 16:08:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <06376792d7bb730a649782f139529dca-RAGZEOY8Uu3QT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <06376792d7bb730a649782f139529dca@dscope.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, Keith Conception wrote: > Does your cpu have a fan on the heatsink? If so then removing the side > shouldn't make a difference. Just make sure the fan is running properly. Generally speaking, taking the side off might(*) hurt cooling for anything that *doesn't* have its own fan, but will make no difference (and might help slightly) for something that does have its own. (* I say "might" because internal airflow in PCs is generally so poor that most cards/drives can't assume they'll get any useful airflow anyway. ) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 23:48:08 2005 From: tleslie-RBVUpeUoHUc at public.gmane.org (ted leslie) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 19:48:08 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <42CC5BAB.6090700-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <20050706221000.GA4422@localhost> <42CC5BAB.6090700@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <20050706234808.GA4818@localhost> i almost forgot, you also have to watch it, some hosting places are using a virtual-kernel setup, where you are private in OS level but underneath you are sharing the box, unbeknown to you. But then again if you dont need to hog a machine .. this might be ok. -tl On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 06:31:07PM -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote: > ted leslie wrote: > > >I needed to host a client on a dedicated service in Canada due to possible > >legal issue > >with respect to file sharing (they were doing). [so we didnt want to host > >in US] > >I researched and found Netnation to be the best value 500 GB / month, > >160GB Raid, or 320 GB non-raid, > >2.8 GHZ, etc,etc, (250$/mon or around that) > > > > > It's interesting - when you get up into that size of hard drive, they > start to converge - ie serverbeach.com has > a > > 2 X AMD Athlon MP 2600 Processor > 2GB Registered PC2100 Memory > 2 X 80 GB Hard Drive > 2000 GB Bandwidth > > for $219/US > > but what I don't seem to see are cheap lower end systems in Canada, that > $79/US/mo price is for a > > 1GHz AMD Processor > 512MB Memory > 60 GB Hard Drive > 900 GB Bandwidth > > oops, there's one in Alberta that has a 40GB hd, 20GB bandwidth for > $119/US/mo but it's Windows > only :-( > > > > >seems to me you have to decide exactly what HD requirement you need, then > >choose, > > > > > > > I only need around 60-80Gb > > Rob > > > Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org > Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com > Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 > -- > Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! > http://www.getfirefox.com/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Jul 6 23:56:29 2005 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:56:29 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> G. Matthew Rice wrote: >mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org writes: > > >>>What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What >>>do "our community" get from us? >>> >>> >>TLUG is a users group of hobbysts and professionals. People show up >>because they like what the other people showing up are doing. >> >>The community is the service. >>Right? >> >> > >Wrong. > >William, I believe, is referring to the incorped GTALUG Inc. that has been >going around and collecting membership fees from people at TLUG and NewTLUG >and Linux World but have yet to say publicly what the money is for, who is >running GTALUG (the biz), why they think that they represent TLUG and NewTLUG >(and now westlug [or phlug??? are they the same]) plus a bunch of other >questions. > >In fact, I think that IBM has asked them to stop the membership drive at the >IBM meeting location for NewTLUG until such information comes forth. > >Hope this clarifies the question. It probably raises many more, though ;) > >Regards, > > One question that it raises is about money, but TLUG money. When I joined back in 1999 or 2000, I paid a membership fee and received a TLUG membership card. That was at a computerfest when TLUG also sold a pile of Caldera CDs for $5 each (anyone remember that one?). I believe a few thousand dollars were raised that year, some people would know the correct amount. I thought the membership was reasonable and would have made a similar annual contribution had it been requested. Some of that money may have been used up in the effort to incorporate TLUG (don't know if it was), but the cost of incorporation was suppose to have been much less than the amount collected. The questions it raises are: how was the money spent (if any), who is looking after the account now, and how much $$ is left over? I have always been curious about that. It's important to have trust in what happened in the past before one can support some future endeavours involving the collection of money. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 00:03:29 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:03:29 -0400 Subject: Change of meeting place. (was: TLUG's value to community ???) In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 07:17:32PM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > 10 MATT: Why are we incorporating? > 20 RESPONSE: So that we can collect money to pay for things. > 30 MATT: What things do we need to pay for? > 40 RESPONSE: Accounting for the incorp and other things we want to do. > 50 MATT: So what do we want to do that we need to pay for? > 60 RESPONSE: Well, nothing that we can think of offhand. Actually, line 60 is still true. As far as I'm aware, they haven't spent any. > 70 GOTO 10 > Of course, this also gets to the question "where did GTALUG get the > idea that": > > GTALUG = incorp + TLUG + NewTLUG + westlug > > because that seems to be the representations that is being made and > may be news to Herb (NewTLUG) and Bill (westlug). > > I'm not trying to be belligerent. I would just like to hear something > from someone at GTALUG. I personally would like to see reversal of all these splintering. In fact, I would like to bring Toronto, Kitchener/Waterloo, and Hamilton as single group, partly because I am at equal driving time to all three. :-) But, first, my pet peeve... Toronto meeting place has to move to where people can park. This alone will go long way in increasing turnout, both at meeting and at any event we hold. No one in his right mind is going to carry his mid-tower case to installfest or hardware swapfest on fucking TTC. To expect this and then complain about lack of turnout, is just insane. One reason that I go to KWLUG and WestTLUG is I can park right at the front door. Ralph-Thorton center is keep coming up. I'm told that there is plenty of free parking. So, let's vote. Who wants to change meeting place to there? Me one. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 00:07:54 2005 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:07:54 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42CC725A.50104@sympatico.ca> Adam Raymond wrote: >Hello all! > >I've been running two slackware boxes (headless) to the side of my >desk. One is a p2 with 333mhz, the other is a p3 with 600 mhz. The >better box (600mhz) has always given my problems. It shuts down >randomly. I ave frequent kernel panics. So after school finished, I >decided to take a good look at the box. One error I noticed was >something to do with a rambus error. So i took out one stick of ram, >and tested the other. Vice versa. I found out that the 128 stick was >the busted one :( (I think). But the box is still active very weird. I >hates the ubuntu install, and cant even load mandrake. Slackware seems >to be the only distro it will handle. > >Regardless, there is some wonky hardware in it. and I need to find out >what the problem is. > >And suggestions? > >Thanks! > > I just finished upgrading my sisters PC to Mandrake 10.1. While at it, it was giving me all sorts of weird boot problems, even rebooted for no apparent reason. It turns out that my sister had been having these problems for a while. After trying many, many things, I took *everything* out of the case and ran it off a table top. It ran beautifully. Did my upgrade, put it back in the case and got problems again. To shorten the story, I insulated the screws to the motherboard (both sides) and the problem has not reappeared. I have another machine that has rebooted on its own at times. Now I have a possible solution to try. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 00:36:20 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 20:36:20 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <42CC725A.50104-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> <42CC725A.50104@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <34e8a43d05070617364f18e184@mail.gmail.com> On 7/6/05, John Moniz wrote: > To shorten the story, I insulated the screws to the motherboard (both > sides) and the problem has not reappeared. > > I have another machine that has rebooted on its own at times. Now I have > a possible solution to try. > > John. John, what do you mean by "I insulated the screws to the motherboard"?? -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 01:14:58 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:14:58 -0400 Subject: Change of meeting place. (was: TLUG's value to community ???) In-Reply-To: <20050707000328.GA22116-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05070618143dc38cce@mail.gmail.com> > I personally would like to see reversal of all these splintering. In > fact, I would like to bring Toronto, Kitchener/Waterloo, and Hamilton as > single group, partly because I am at equal driving time to all three. An annual (or semi-annual) combined-LUG meeting might not be a bad idea, though the logistics in setting it up initially would likely cause a few migraines. > But, first, my pet peeve... Toronto meeting place has to move to where > people can park. This alone will go long way in increasing turnout, > both at meeting and at any event we hold. No one in his right mind is > going to carry his mid-tower case to installfest or hardware swapfest on > fucking TTC. To expect this and then complain about lack of turnout, is > just insane. One reason that I go to KWLUG and WestTLUG is I can park > right at the front door. I missed the exec meeting yesterday (work) but the topic of an effective meeting place has been under discussion at those meetings. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 01:46:07 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 21:46:07 -0400 Subject: Lojack for laptops? Message-ID: <42CC895F.50909@cheapersafer.com> Didn't I see this idea float by on this mailing list last year? http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/06/2143249&from=rss Rob Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 -- Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 01:39:38 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 21:39:38 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0507061839281c3461@mail.gmail.com> > Of course, this also gets to the question "where did GTALUG get the idea that": > > GTALUG = incorp + TLUG + NewTLUG + westlug My (admittedly inadequate) understanding is that GTALUG = TLUG(inc) and that the name change from TLUG to GTALUG was to resolve (potential) naming conflicts with the other TLUG's. I'm not particularly clear on the relationships between NewTLUG, WestLUG, and GTALUG either, and that's something I'd like to fix (along with getting out to those meetings :S ) I do agree with Sy on the documenting (if not the writing contest; I couldn't write anything but code if my life depended on it, lol). -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 02:10:18 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 22:10:18 -0400 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: <20050707000328.GA22116-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42CC8F0A.6030609@interlog.com> William Park wrote: > Ralph-Thorton center is keep coming up. I'm told that there is plenty > of free parking. So, let's vote. Who wants to change meeting place to > there? What/where is the Ralph-Thorton center? How easy would it be for those people who are not their right mind to lug their mid-tower to the site via the red rocket? -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: | Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 02:57:12 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 22:57:12 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <1120705033.21721.17.camel@neo> > In fact, I think that IBM has asked them to stop the membership drive at the > IBM meeting location for NewTLUG until such information comes forth. > > Hope this clarifies the question. It probably raises many more, though ;) Hopelessly corrupt atmosphere in Toronto, not the only city itself ( which is more or less bankrupt ) , as I was told, forces GTALUG to collect money so it can afford things that in most other places are free ( especially for groups such as GTALUG ) . Such as probably GTALUG's own projector, since free semi-legal facilities rarely have such luxuries. GTALUG is not a biz, but a non-profit organization. Money from membership fees will go straight for little bits of stuff people paid out of the pocket for. At the VLUG such things weren't a problem, here it seems every trivial bit had to be fought for tooth and nail. Trivial bits of stuff like printing fliers , buying stands for them and distributing them among mom and pop computer shop would be one of the ways to spend such money. Its so that for these tiny tasks there won't be need to go and hunt for sponsor every time. Heck there can be open accounting of things money is spent on... Projector would be a good investment, IMO if there will be more than one corporate sponsor for such things. Also such wranglings I think should be taken off the list between people who really care about which direction GTALUG is going. Say Matthew, why don't you suggest what are the good things for GTALUG to spend these money on to Bill & Exec.? Best regards, Pavel -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 03:06:32 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:06:32 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <20050706221000.GA4422@localhost> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <20050706221000.GA4422@localhost> Message-ID: <1120705592.21721.24.camel@neo> ? ???, 06/07/2005 ? 18:10 -0400, ted leslie ?????: > I needed to host a client on a dedicated service in Canada due to possible legal issue > with respect to file sharing (they were doing). [so we didnt want to host in US] > I researched and found Netnation to be the best value 500 GB / month, 160GB Raid, or 320 GB non-raid, > 2.8 GHZ, etc,etc, (250$/mon or around that) > > It all seems to boils down to Harddrive space, > i found a place in the US for 100$USD/month for 3.5TB transfer but only 40GB HD, > where as Netnation is 500GB transfer but 320 GB HD, > > seems to me you have to decide exactly what HD requirement you need, then choose, > > but US does seem to have better economies of scale at some hosting companies POPs, with > respect to their bandwidth. As well the US has always been more of a "all you can eat" > in nature, so they tend to have better "you can used big bandwith" deals!, knowing > a lot of the time people don't follow through and use as much BW as they think they might use. Netnation employs immigrants at lowest possible rates, their service was questionable at best , fluidity of human resources was hight when I was in Vancouver, and in Vancouver people try to hang on to their jobs because of the job market size. I would highly recommend peer1, if you can haggle them down they have very excellent service. Airgames I worked for had excellent support and flexible support from them. joelonsoftware uses them as well, and I respect the guy. He quotes them as very good deal. HTH, Pavel PS: I have self-earned status of Canadian citizen , so I well within bounds of my comments ;-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: ??? ????? ????????? ????????? ???????? ???????? URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 03:32:04 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 23:32:04 -0400 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: <42CC8F0A.6030609-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> <42CC8F0A.6030609@interlog.com> Message-ID: <20050707033203.GA22368@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Jul 06, 2005 at 10:10:18PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > William Park wrote: > >Ralph-Thorton center is keep coming up. I'm told that there is plenty > >of free parking. So, let's vote. Who wants to change meeting place to > >there? > > What/where is the Ralph-Thorton center? How easy would it be for those > people who are not their right mind to lug their mid-tower to the site via > the red rocket? It's on Queen Street, just east of Broadview. The streetcar is quite convenient. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 03:16:11 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 23:16:11 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <20050706234808.GA4818@localhost> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <42CC5BAB.6090700@cheapersafer.com> <20050706234808.GA4818@localhost> Message-ID: <200507062316.11710.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On July 6, 2005 19:48, ted leslie wrote: > i almost forgot, > you also have to watch it, > some hosting places are using a virtual-kernel setup, where you are private > in OS level but underneath you are sharing the box, unbeknown to you. > But then again if you dont need to hog a machine .. this might be ok. The devil is always in the details. What you just described is not necessarily a bad thing, as long as it is disclosed up front. In fact, there are some not insignificant advantages to virtualization, not the least being that migrating a virtual server from one physical server to another is much easier than migrating a physical server to another physical server. The overhead of something like Xen is so low, in the order of 2%, that it is negligible. The ease of migration is compelling enough that I would even virtualize one instance of a server on one physical server just to have that capability. As for "hogging" a machine, you can hog 100% of a virtual server. As long as you know what the resource limits are up front, I do not see a problem with that. If you have something that is resource intensive, you can always specify what your resource requirements are and the hosting provider will make appropriate recommendations. FYI, I am configuring a few Xen based machines right now for hosting so this is very topical for me. I have had recent experience with Virtuozzo and VMWare ESX Server as well. The former, I would not touch with a barge pole. The latter has quite a bit of overhead but it is a true virtual machine where the underlying hardware has been virtualized. Its remote management tools for the hosting provider are very good. You can install an unmodified x86 Linux distro on a VMWaare virtual machine, or for that matter, BSD, or Windows. Xen does not virtualize the hardware but requires a modified kernel. The rest of it can be whatever comes with your distro. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 03:30:44 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 6 Jul 2005 23:30:44 -0400 Subject: Linux & Windows Shared Folders. Message-ID: <34e8a43d05070620301b67d93@mail.gmail.com> I'm trying to setup my windows and slackware server to view each others shared folders. I got windows viewing fine, and Linux can see both shares via "smbtree" however working with Linux so long has gotten me windows brain dead. To mount the windows share on slackware, I need to use: mount -t smbfs //servername/sharename /mountdirectory -o username=mywindowsusername,password=mywindowspassword However, there are some things I am confused with. What is my windows user/pass?? I have no clue. Is there anyway I can check this? Thanks. -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 03:48:51 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 06 Jul 2005 23:48:51 -0400 Subject: Windows password Message-ID: <1120708131.15128.5.camel@localhost> >However, there are some things I am confused with. What is my windows >user/pass?? I have no clue. Is there anyway I can check this? If you have Admin rights (the default user is the Admin) on the Windows box, the simplest thing would be to locate your user name via Control Panel --> Users and then just set a new password. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 04:08:44 2005 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 00:08:44 -0400 Subject: Hardware Issues? In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d05070617364f18e184-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050706092336628ccd@mail.gmail.com> <42CC725A.50104@sympatico.ca> <34e8a43d05070617364f18e184@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42CCAACC.5010008@sympatico.ca> Adam Raymond wrote: >On 7/6/05, John Moniz wrote: > > >>To shorten the story, I insulated the screws to the motherboard (both >>sides) and the problem has not reappeared. >> >>I have another machine that has rebooted on its own at times. Now I have >>a possible solution to try. >> >>John. >> >> > >John, what do you mean by "I insulated the screws to the motherboard"?? > > > I used those little red gasket type washers between the screw heads and the motherboard. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 06:19:57 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 02:19:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Change of meeting place. (was: TLUG's value to community ???) In-Reply-To: <20050707000328.GA22116-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, William Park wrote: > But, first, my pet peeve... Toronto meeting place has to move to where > people can park. This alone will go long way in increasing turnout, > both at meeting and at any event we hold. No one in his right mind is > going to carry his mid-tower case to installfest or hardware swapfest on > fucking TTC... I had no problems finding a parking spot at the installfest at linuxcaffe. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 13:13:32 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 07 Jul 2005 09:13:32 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <1120705033.21721.17.camel@neo> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1120705033.21721.17.camel@neo> Message-ID: Pavel Zaitsev writes: > Also such wranglings I think should be taken off the list between people > who really care about which direction GTALUG is going. > > Say Matthew, why don't you suggest what are the good things for GTALUG > to spend these money on to Bill & Exec.? I'd love to. However, there are a couple of problems: 1. Who is the exec of GTALUG? I can only guess that it's Brockway, Thanis Browne and ???. Still no official anything from anyone on GTALUG. Someone just started showing up and asking for money. 2. I heard a "rumour" that only paying members of GTALUG have a say in the AGM and voting and other stuff. Again no knowledge of how the this whole process/incorp is being managed. I really don't think that it is the responsibility of the members of TLUG, NewTLUG, ... to hunt down these guys and get clarification. It should be the exact opposite. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 15:54:51 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:54:51 -0400 Subject: Card reader/writer In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42CD504B.3090904@sympatico.ca> Martin Duclos wrote: > HI All, > I have just aquired a 3 track card reader/writer from magtek. I am > trying to find sofware to read and write cards with the device. If and when you get it going, might you offer a small card writing service ? We could use a few cards written to,here at the ol' linuxcaffe. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 16:08:52 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:08:52 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems Message-ID: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> I've searched for many solutions to my problem. Including reading many posts in this specific forum. Ive gotten pretty far, but not as far as I wanted. All I want is to turn my Linux box into a file server. And so far I can see the box on windows network, but when i click on it, it says i do not have enough permissions. However, when I go through IE "\\server-ip" I can then enter the user/pass set from smbpasswd -a adam. I have no idea how to fix this. :S smb.conf [global] workgroup = HOME [Lappy] comment = Slackware Laptop path = /home/adam read only = no guest ok = yes Any suggestions? Thanks allot. -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 16:34:51 2005 From: smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sheldon Mustard) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:34:51 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <22e43508050707093446079656@mail.gmail.com> I don't recall the default in slack, maybe try: [global] encrypt passwords = true On 7/7/05, Adam Raymond wrote: > I've searched for many solutions to my problem. Including reading many > posts in this specific forum. Ive gotten pretty far, but not as far as > I wanted. > > All I want is to turn my Linux box into a file server. And so far I > can see the box on windows network, but when i click on it, it says i > do not have enough permissions. However, when I go through IE > "\\server-ip" I can then enter the user/pass set from smbpasswd -a > adam. I have no idea how to fix this. :S > > smb.conf > > [global] > workgroup = HOME > [Lappy] > comment = Slackware Laptop > path = /home/adam > read only = no > guest ok = yes -- Sheldon Mustard smustard-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org "There will be no order, only chaos." - Pi (1998) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 16:38:29 2005 From: jonzou-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jonathan zou) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 12:38:29 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3009c0a805070709385511c8eb@mail.gmail.com> why not check log.smbd? if still no clue,try to install ethereal for windows and captures the username/passwd win network sending out. On 7/7/05, Adam Raymond wrote: > I've searched for many solutions to my problem. Including reading many > posts in this specific forum. Ive gotten pretty far, but not as far as > I wanted. > > All I want is to turn my Linux box into a file server. And so far I > can see the box on windows network, but when i click on it, it says i > do not have enough permissions. However, when I go through IE > "\\server-ip" I can then enter the user/pass set from smbpasswd -a > adam. I have no idea how to fix this. :S > > smb.conf > > [global] > workgroup = HOME > [Lappy] > comment = Slackware Laptop > path = /home/adam > read only = no > guest ok = yes > > Any suggestions? Thanks allot. > > -- > - Adam Raymond - > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 18:19:34 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:19:34 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <200507062316.11710.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <42CC5BAB.6090700@cheapersafer.com> <20050706234808.GA4818@localhost> <200507062316.11710.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <42CD7236.9070303@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > As for "hogging" a machine, you can hog 100% of a virtual server. As long as > you know what the resource limits are up front, I do not see a problem with > that. With the exception of IBM's AIX virtualization stuff, I haven't seen any virtualization solution which effectively deals with IO partitioning. So long as you're aware that some customer may decide to eat up all the disk IO on a regular basis, and prepared to deal with that, a virtualized solution may be right for you. Potentially it's a whole lot less expensive. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCzXI2gfzn5SevSpoRAs67AJ9KpS/r+ue8xTr73F0F5gRJsZOebwCffGed 7vNdSdgLhNzh1JQLiMpq9KM= =uJbA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tgoodaire-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 18:48:29 2005 From: tgoodaire-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (Tim Goodaire) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 14:48:29 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: <3009c0a805070709385511c8eb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> <3009c0a805070709385511c8eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050707184829.GA27897@dahmer> On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 12:38:29PM -0400, jonathan zou wrote: > why not check log.smbd? > > if still no clue,try to install ethereal for windows and captures the > username/passwd win network sending out. > > On 7/7/05, Adam Raymond wrote: > > I've searched for many solutions to my problem. Including reading many > > posts in this specific forum. Ive gotten pretty far, but not as far as > > I wanted. > > > > All I want is to turn my Linux box into a file server. And so far I > > can see the box on windows network, but when i click on it, it says i > > do not have enough permissions. However, when I go through IE > > "\\server-ip" I can then enter the user/pass set from smbpasswd -a > > adam. I have no idea how to fix this. :S > > > > smb.conf > > > > [global] > > workgroup = HOME > > [Lappy] > > comment = Slackware Laptop > > path = /home/adam > > read only = no > > guest ok = yes > > > > Any suggestions? Thanks allot. > > > > -- > > - Adam Raymond - > > I have a few ideas of things for you to look at. I'm not sure what the default value for security is in the [global] section, but it should be set to: security = user (as opposed to security = share) A public share can then be defined like this: [mp3] comment = mp3 writable = yes browseable = yes guest ok = yes path = /home/mp3 public = yes Also, if you're just trying to access your home directory, you can have a service defined like this: [homes] writable = yes (man smb.conf actually has pretty good documentation for this stuff) Tim > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 19:52:50 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 15:52:50 -0400 Subject: Card reader/writer In-Reply-To: <42CD504B.3090904-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42CD504B.3090904@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050707195250.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 11:54:51AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Martin Duclos wrote: > > > HI All, > > I have just aquired a 3 track card reader/writer from magtek. I am > > trying to find sofware to read and write cards with the device. > > If and when you get it going, might you offer a small card writing service ? > We could use a few cards written to,here at the ol' linuxcaffe. Is that like a credit card/other magnetic card reader/writer? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 19:58:26 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 15:58:26 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050707195826.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 12:08:52PM -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > I've searched for many solutions to my problem. Including reading many > posts in this specific forum. Ive gotten pretty far, but not as far as > I wanted. > > All I want is to turn my Linux box into a file server. And so far I > can see the box on windows network, but when i click on it, it says i > do not have enough permissions. However, when I go through IE > "\\server-ip" I can then enter the user/pass set from smbpasswd -a > adam. I have no idea how to fix this. :S Which version of windows? Are you logged into windows as a user with a password and does that username/password match what you set with smbpasswd? If so it should jsut work, if they don't match it will ask. If the username doesn't match and you a using an older version of windows, it will just fail without asking for the new username, while most of the time the NT based systems tend to ask (but even they sometimes fail to). Of course, usernames with spaces in them (which windows allows) causes no end of trouble. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 20:16:40 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:16:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Understanding RAID Message-ID: http://www.epidauros.be/raid.jpg :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Senior Technical Consultant Email: support-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Web: www.opentrend.net We are open 24x7x365 for technical support. Call us in a crisis. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 20:08:39 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 16:08:39 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <42CD7236.9070303-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <200507062316.11710.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42CD7236.9070303@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <200507071608.40327.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On July 7, 2005 14:19, Andrew Hammond wrote: > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > As for "hogging" a machine, you can hog 100% of a virtual server. As long > > as you know what the resource limits are up front, I do not see a problem > > with that. > > With the exception of IBM's AIX virtualization stuff, I haven't seen any > virtualization solution which effectively deals with IO partitioning. So > long as you're aware that some customer may decide to eat up all the > disk IO on a regular basis, and prepared to deal with that, a > virtualized solution may be right for you. Potentially it's a whole lot > less expensive. Hence my recommendation that one should inform the hosting provider about the nature of the applications that one intends to run. I would not put something that is I/O intensive on a physical machine that is running multiple virtual machines as I know this is a problem. As for being a whole lot less expensive, maybe. It usually lands somewhere in between shared hosting and dedicated servers but prices are really all over the map. Generally speaking, you get what you pay for. The so called "unlimited" accounts cannot be as the provider could not stay in business without overselling. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 20:36:22 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 16:36:22 -0400 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, William Park wrote: >> But, first, my pet peeve... Toronto meeting place has to move to where >> people can park. This alone will go long way in increasing turnout, >> both at meeting and at any event we hold. No one in his right mind is >> going to carry his mid-tower case to installfest or hardware swapfest on >> fucking TTC... > > I had no problems finding a parking spot at the installfest at linuxcaffe. The Linuxcafe isn't the greatest spot for a meeting and driving there is not the greatest either. What we need, is a location that's close to subway, not just streetcar and reasonable access & parking for driving. Many years ago, a Toronto amateur radio club held it's meetings in a TTC building at the Wilson subway yards, which met both requirements. I have no idea about arrangements though. For someone who lives outside of Toronto, a location on the subway is minimally accessable. Anything on a streetcar route is likely not, unless well away from the downtown core and also close to a highway. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 21:23:14 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 17:23:14 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: <20050707195826.GU23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> <20050707195826.GU23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <34e8a43d05070714233d6256e1@mail.gmail.com> On 7/7/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Which version of windows? > > Are you logged into windows as a user with a password and does that > username/password match what you set with smbpasswd? If so it should > jsut work, if they don't match it will ask. If the username doesn't > match and you a using an older version of windows, it will just fail > without asking for the new username, while most of the time the NT based > systems tend to ask (but even they sometimes fail to). > > Of course, usernames with spaces in them (which windows allows) causes > no end of trouble. Im on Windows XP Pro and I do have a user (with admin privs) but no password is set. I made a network connection, and that works, but I dont want that. I want to view all computers in the workgroup, and access shares that way. However, thats when I get the error that I dont have enough privs to view the workgroup. -- - Adam Raymond -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 21:37:57 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 17:37:57 -0400 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: <42CD9246.8040804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42CDA0B5.40604@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: >John Vetterli wrote: > >>I had no problems finding a parking spot at the installfest at linuxcaffe. >> >> > >The Linuxcafe isn't the greatest spot for a meeting and driving there is >not the greatest either. > > Call me biased, but I thought the installfest meeting went well, and the GTA-lug exec meetings seem to work out nicely. For really large groups another venue would have to be found, true, but for smaller gatherings I think it's just peachy ! >What we need, is a location that's close to subway, not just streetcar >and reasonable access & parking for driving. > > linuxcaffe is 1 block from Christie subway, 10 feet from a bus stop, and offers a reasonable amount of parking.. in what way might access be improved upon ? valet parking, perhaps ? a helipad ? > >For someone who lives outside of Toronto, a location on the subway is >minimally accessable. Anything on a streetcar route is likely not, >unless well away from the downtown core and also close to a highway. > > Is GTA-lug not targeted towards those in the GTA ? Folks who live in outlying communities (although more than welcome) might find (or found) a local lug rather than hit the highways. Not trying to be quarellous, but looking for ways to serve the linux community better. djp -- linuxcaffe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 22:54:46 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 15:54:46 -0700 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <200507071608.40327.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <200507062316.11710.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <42CD7236.9070303@ca.afilias.info> <200507071608.40327.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: http://www.iplink.net is where I am going to host my stuff. I am just using the CO-LO option, as I prefer to own the hardware. You'd have to call for a real price, but 1/4 rack is pretty cheap on their website. They claim unlimited bandwith once you rent a rack space. -Joseph- On 7/7/05, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On July 7, 2005 14:19, Andrew Hammond wrote: > > CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > > As for "hogging" a machine, you can hog 100% of a virtual server. As long > > > as you know what the resource limits are up front, I do not see a problem > > > with that. > > > > With the exception of IBM's AIX virtualization stuff, I haven't seen any > > virtualization solution which effectively deals with IO partitioning. So > > long as you're aware that some customer may decide to eat up all the > > disk IO on a regular basis, and prepared to deal with that, a > > virtualized solution may be right for you. Potentially it's a whole lot > > less expensive. > > Hence my recommendation that one should inform the hosting provider about the > nature of the applications that one intends to run. I would not put something > that is I/O intensive on a physical machine that is running multiple virtual > machines as I know this is a problem. As for being a whole lot less > expensive, maybe. It usually lands somewhere in between shared hosting and > dedicated servers but prices are really all over the map. Generally speaking, > you get what you pay for. The so called "unlimited" accounts cannot be as the > provider could not stay in business without overselling. > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay > Dinamis Corporation > 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 > Toronto, ON > Canada M4N 3P6 > > +1 416-410-3326 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 01:32:32 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:32:32 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <42CD7236.9070303-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <42CD7236.9070303@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: Sun Solaris and Windows 2003 (Enterprise Edition) also have these resource partitioning features. BTW, Solaris 10 is free. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Hammond Sent: July 7, 2005 2:20 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Dedicated server prices? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > As for "hogging" a machine, you can hog 100% of a virtual server. As long as > you know what the resource limits are up front, I do not see a problem with > that. With the exception of IBM's AIX virtualization stuff, I haven't seen any virtualization solution which effectively deals with IO partitioning. So long as you're aware that some customer may decide to eat up all the disk IO on a regular basis, and prepared to deal with that, a virtualized solution may be right for you. Potentially it's a whole lot less expensive. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCzXI2gfzn5SevSpoRAs67AJ9KpS/r+ue8xTr73F0F5gRJsZOebwCffGed 7vNdSdgLhNzh1JQLiMpq9KM= =uJbA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 01:33:24 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:33:24 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: If you can access the server through IP address but not hostname you need to add the Linux machine in your DNS or WINS. In addition you need to define your machine name in the global options. Try this: [global] Workgroup = HOME Netbios name = Try using swat or testparm they can help you out allot. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Adam Raymond Sent: July 7, 2005 12:09 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Samba Problems I've searched for many solutions to my problem. Including reading many posts in this specific forum. Ive gotten pretty far, but not as far as I wanted. All I want is to turn my Linux box into a file server. And so far I can see the box on windows network, but when i click on it, it says i do not have enough permissions. However, when I go through IE "\\server-ip" I can then enter the user/pass set from smbpasswd -a adam. I have no idea how to fix this. :S smb.conf [global] workgroup = HOME [Lappy] comment = Slackware Laptop path = /home/adam read only = no guest ok = yes Any suggestions? Thanks allot. -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 01:49:26 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 21:49:26 -0400 Subject: Kppp Message-ID: <20050707214926.6ca1554c.hgibson@eol.ca> Does anybody know how to run Kppp from Red Hat and from Fedora without giving up root's password. I have already tried writing a C program with the root's user ID bit turned on, and Red Hat intercepted that. Red Hat is doing such a good job of protecting me from the user ID bit that I have to give up root's password. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 02:11:58 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 22:11:58 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050702175742.GA17262-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> <20050702175742.GA17262@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050707221158.4a81fc69.hgibson@eol.ca> On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 13:57:42 -0400 William Park wrote: > On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:00:44PM -0400, Clive DaSilva wrote: > > Just wondering, are this bunch Linux friendly?, because the parent > > Primus isn't really > > I'm with Eol.ca, which is now owned by Primus.ca. I rarely have problem > with the lines, so I rarely talk to their tech support. I have. They are not actively hostile to Linux, but they are no help either. My problem was that I used xisp to connect throught the phones, and it stopped working. Switching from a straight login to CHAP fixed everything, but I had to figure that out on my own. Obviously, they reconfigured something, but they either did not know this or would not admit it. A year or two ago, I had another interesting chat over the phone with them. "Why can't I connected to the internet?" "You have a comma in your password." "How the $%^$!! do you know that?" I think they have some system of letting you login to *NIX and to Windows servers using the same account and password. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:02:15 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:02:15 -0400 Subject: Kppp In-Reply-To: <20050707214926.6ca1554c.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050707214926.6ca1554c.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <42CDECB7.6040400@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > Does anybody know how to run Kppp from Red Hat and from Fedora without giving up root's password. I have already tried writing a C program with the root's user ID bit turned on, and Red Hat intercepted that. > > Red Hat is doing such a good job of protecting me from the user ID bit that I have to give up root's password. > man sudoers -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:02:28 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:02:28 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: References: <34e8a43d050707090869bf6791@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <34e8a43d0507072002793df38f@mail.gmail.com> On 7/7/05, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > If you can access the server through IP address but not hostname you need to > add the Linux machine in your DNS or WINS. > In addition you need to define your machine name in the global options. > Try this: > > [global] > Workgroup = HOME > Netbios name = > > > Try using swat or testparm they can help you out allot. > I'm not to sure exactly what my netbios name is. :S I haven't set this in Linux, or windows. Were can I find it? or set it? -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:07:18 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:07:18 -0400 Subject: Need an ISP in TO In-Reply-To: <20050707221158.4a81fc69.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42C29153.3090100@mi-consultants.com> <200507021141.45663.marc@lijour.net> <200507021200.45089.cdasilva@iprimus.ca> <20050702175742.GA17262@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050707221158.4a81fc69.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <42CDEDE6.5060706@rogers.com> Howard Gibson wrote: > On Sat, 2 Jul 2005 13:57:42 -0400 > William Park wrote: > >>On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 12:00:44PM -0400, Clive DaSilva wrote: >>>Just wondering, are this bunch Linux friendly?, because the parent >>>Primus isn't really >>I'm with Eol.ca, which is now owned by Primus.ca. I rarely have problem >>with the lines, so I rarely talk to their tech support. > > I have. They are not actively hostile to Linux, but they are no help either. The same applies to Windows users. ;-) A friend of mine is on Primus. Lot's of "fun". Currently she has a problem, where she's occasionally disconnected and has to restart the connection. It doesn't matter if she connects directly to the computer or goes through a router. Also, the smtp server seems a tad slow. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:17:02 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:17:02 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: References: <42CD7236.9070303@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20050708031702.GA21096@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 09:32:32PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >BTW, Solaris 10 is free. Um, no. Solaris 10 has a zero cost to the hobbyist. It is not free as in freedom. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu Jul 7 23:16:36 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:16:36 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: <42CDA0B5.40604-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <42CDA0B5.40604@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c@mail.look.ca> At 05:37 PM 2005/07/07 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >>The Linuxcafe >linuxcaffe is 1 block from Christie subway, 10 feet from a bus stop, and >offers a reasonable amount of parking.. in what way might access be >improved upon ? valet parking, perhaps ? a helipad ? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- >linuxcaffe is 1 block from Christie subway Yes, linuxcaffe is one block (in terms of traffic lights) south of Christie Station. I think that there are 'mini-blocklets' (?) within this path. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- >linuxcaffe is ... 10 feet from a bus stop Would you happen to know the bus route number, and its subway station of departure ? (If you don't know, don't bother: I can ask various T.T.C. personnel at Wellesley Station.) I expect that it probably has Wellesley Station as its 'home'. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- I very much enjoy the conversation contributions that you make to the after-meeting pub get-togethers. Stay cool in the summer heat ! Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:27:35 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:27:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, James McIntosh wrote: > At 05:37 PM 2005/07/07 -0400, David J Patrick > wrote: > > --------- >> linuxcaffe is ... 10 feet from a bus stop > > Would you happen to know the bus route number, and its subway station of > departure ? Wellesley, No. 94 It runs from Ossington to Castle Frank via Wellesley. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:29:49 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 23:29:49 -0400 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <42CDF32D.9060108@sympatico.ca> James McIntosh wrote: > >Yes, linuxcaffe is one block (in terms of traffic lights) south of Christie >Station. I think that there are 'mini-blocklets' (?) within this path. > > ac2ally, the walk south is punctuated by 1 alley, no other streets. That's not to say it ain't a /long/ block , ;-) >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--------- > > >>linuxcaffe is ... 10 feet from a bus stop >> >> > >Would you happen to know the bus route number, and its subway station of >departure ? > > 94 (I think, don't quote me, I'll get back to ya) departing from Wellesley (and Ossington station, at the other end) >(If you don't know, don't bother: I can ask various T.T.C. personnel at >Wellesley Station.) > > yes, do dat ! >I expect that it probably has Wellesley Station as its 'home'. > > tis !h >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >--------- >I very much enjoy the conversation contributions that you make to the >after-meeting pub get-togethers. Stay cool in the summer heat ! > > why thanks JM ! Your perspective is refreshing, too ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:33:00 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:33:00 -0400 Subject: Samba Problems In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d0507072002793df38f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d0507072002793df38f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Use your linux host name. Not the full (FQDN) just the host name. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Adam Raymond Sent: July 7, 2005 11:02 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Samba Problems On 7/7/05, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > If you can access the server through IP address but not hostname you need to > add the Linux machine in your DNS or WINS. > In addition you need to define your machine name in the global options. > Try this: > > [global] > Workgroup = HOME > Netbios name = > > > Try using swat or testparm they can help you out allot. > I'm not to sure exactly what my netbios name is. :S I haven't set this in Linux, or windows. Were can I find it? or set it? -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 03:44:41 2005 From: ansarm-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ansar Mohammed) Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 23:44:41 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: <20050708031702.GA21096-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050708031702.GA21096@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/popup.jsp?info=17 No dude. It's free as in free beer and for everyone. There is also an OpenSolaris (www.opensolaris.org) project where you can get the code too (as in freedom). Previous versions (8 and 9) has restrictions on Commercial use. But not 10. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of William O'Higgins Sent: July 7, 2005 11:17 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Dedicated server prices? On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 09:32:32PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: > >BTW, Solaris 10 is free. Um, no. Solaris 10 has a zero cost to the hobbyist. It is not free as in freedom. -- yours, William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3038 bytes Desc: not available URL: From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 04:18:57 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 00:18:57 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: References: <42CC548A.3020606@cheapersafer.com> <200507071608.40327.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <200507080018.58330.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On July 7, 2005 18:54, Joseph Kubik wrote: > http://www.iplink.net is where I am going to host my stuff. > I am just using the CO-LO option, as I prefer to own the hardware. > You'd have to call for a real price, but 1/4 rack is pretty cheap on > their website. They claim unlimited bandwith once you rent a rack > space. They claim no such thing. A quarter rack with a dedicated 100Mb/s connection is $2500/mo. They have the hype about "no caps, no meters, no extra cost!", which is in all caps but I figure I will try to keep the SA score down by not repeating that, but all that means is that you can saturate that 100Mb/s connection 24x7 if you wanted to for a total of 26TB of data transfer. That is not "unlimited". The limit is the 100Mb connection, or how much they have oversold their upstream connection. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 10:32:51 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 06:32:51 -0400 Subject: Dedicated server prices? In-Reply-To: References: <20050708031702.GA21096@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050708103251.GA22228@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 11:44:41PM -0400, Ansar Mohammed wrote: >http://www.sun.com/software/solaris/popup.jsp?info=17 > >No dude. It's free as in free beer and for everyone. There is also an >OpenSolaris (www.opensolaris.org) project where you can get the code too (as >in freedom). Getting the code and it being Open Source are related but not equivalent. Read the CDDL. It says that they own the code, you may modify it, and they own the modifications. It is a "what's mine is mine, what's yours is also mine" license. Contrast that with the GPL, GPL2, LGPL or BSD licenses. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 12:12:00 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 08:12:00 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <42CC6FAD.5020300-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 7/6/05, John Moniz wrote: > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > >mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org writes: > > > > > >>>What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What > >>>do "our community" get from us? > >>> > >>> > >>TLUG is a users group of hobbysts and professionals. People show up > >>because they like what the other people showing up are doing. > >> > >>The community is the service. > >>Right? > >> > >> > > > >Wrong. > > > >William, I believe, is referring to the incorped GTALUG Inc. that has been > >going around and collecting membership fees from people at TLUG and NewTLUG > >and Linux World but have yet to say publicly what the money is for, who is > >running GTALUG (the biz), why they think that they represent TLUG and NewTLUG > >(and now westlug [or phlug??? are they the same]) plus a bunch of other > >questions. > > > >In fact, I think that IBM has asked them to stop the membership drive at the > >IBM meeting location for NewTLUG until such information comes forth. > > > >Hope this clarifies the question. It probably raises many more, though ;) > > > >Regards, > > > > > One question that it raises is about money, but TLUG money. When I > joined back in 1999 or 2000, I paid a membership fee and received a TLUG > membership card. That was at a computerfest when TLUG also sold a pile > of Caldera CDs for $5 each (anyone remember that one?). I believe a few > thousand dollars were raised that year, some people would know the > correct amount. I thought the membership was reasonable and would have > made a similar annual contribution had it been requested. > > Some of that money may have been used up in the effort to incorporate > TLUG (don't know if it was), but the cost of incorporation was suppose > to have been much less than the amount collected. > > The questions it raises are: how was the money spent (if any), who is > looking after the account now, and how much $$ is left over? > > I have always been curious about that. It's important to have trust in > what happened in the past before one can support some future endeavours > involving the collection of money. As far as I can tell, nearly all of that money went towards the cost of "lawyering up" to deal with incorporation. You can set up a business corporation for just a few hundred dollars, but for a not-for-profit, the necessity of defining various things formally makes it quite a bit more expensive. Further, NUANS searches were made more expensive by the fact that several names had to be searched for until something that didn't conflict was found. Notably, "TLUG" conflicts with plenty of existing names. Tokyo may be most prominent; Toledo is only a few hours drive away... So far, there hasn't been indication of there being terribly much (outside of the legal costs) that money winds up being good for. -> GTALUG could use a projector Though the result would be fairly much isomorphic to the present situation where it uses borrowed ones; there would be the IDENTICAL need to stuff the projector some place for 29 days a month... -> There might be a need to pay something for meeting venue. But once you get away from "free," renting real estate winds up being quite spectacularly expensive. -> A traditional reason to need an incorporated LUG is to allow that to be used for infrastructure for conferences. But RWL comes and goes without any need of that infrastructure... -> It would be useful for GTALUG to have an "InstallFest kit" consisting of a few PCs, a router, and an assortment of bits of "extra hardware". Which might be $1K worth of hardware all tolled, with the same situation as with the projector where it needs to get stashed most of the time and transported for each (relevant) meeting. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 15:22:04 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 08 Jul 2005 11:22:04 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Christopher Browne writes: > So far, there hasn't been indication of there being terribly much > (outside of the legal costs) that money winds up being good for. > > Sounds a bit like that circular argument that I mentioned earlier ;) Chris, aren't you a (board) member of GTALUG? Perhaps we should invite GTALUG to give a talk at TLUG, NewTLUG, ... It could really help clear up the confusion. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 16:29:03 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:29:03 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: ; from cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Fri, Jul 08, 2005 at 08:12:00AM -0400 References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> I don't understand why this question comes up and why it always ends up revolving around money. Why we incorporated: There are several big reasons why we did so: 1) We were faced with a situation where we did not have any official status and thus couldn't get private and public organizations to sponsor us for anything. The people at IBM today are asking us why we need this, but the same group was openly asking why they could get tax receipts six years ago. Other companies were doing the same thing. This was back when we still had active volunteers that did talk to people about sponsoring TLUG. 2) The volunteer group, specifically the ones that have been doing the behind the scenes work have been doing it for five to seven years without thanks, or appreciation, and quite frankly have gotten tired of it. The incorporation structure allows people to come and go from the volunteer staff with little problems. It doesn't solve the problem of finding the volunteers, but at least we know when we need to fill posts. 3) It allows some kind of order in both picking and removing people from the executive. In the past we have had up to four rival LUG simluateously in Toronto because people didn't like what the executive was doing but was powerless make any changes. As a member of GTALUG do you have methods of making changes. 4) In 1999 (correct me if I'm wrong about the date), Matt organized a tlug membership drive at comdex, and raised approximately $5000 (correct me if I'm wrong, I quoting George's numbers from 2001), and handed over a little less than $2000 to Clive, George and committee (remember the committee everyone) for the purposes of incorpation. There have also been other 'membership drives' by other groups claiming to represent TLUG. By becoming an official organization we can at least claim that those other parties don't represent TLUG. We have gotten people threaten to sue us in the past because either members on the list claiming to speak for TLUG have tried to make deals with business on our behalf. We aren't obligated to honour such deals, but it did breed anomisity towards us for no reason. 5) I would like to point out to everyone that you all live in Canada, and any official organization in Canada who claims to have members MUST have a non-zero membership fee, collected at least once a year. You can complain about it to your member of parliament if you don't like this arrangement. 6) The fee is arbitrary and we have control over what we charge. The $20 was cosen because its a token amount that most people don't have a problem parting with. I guess we were wrong. The reason GTALUG exist as a legal entity is two fold: back when incororation was started we were being asked by the business community to provide such infrastructure to facilitate donations of facilities to our cause; and the legal framework allows the rest of the world to be able to identify us and thus avoiding people who claim to represent the group. Bill On Fri, Jul 08, 2005 at 08:12:00AM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/6/05, John Moniz wrote: > > G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > > > >mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org writes: > > > > > > > > >>>What is GTALUG's value to community? What service do we provide? What > > >>>do "our community" get from us? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>TLUG is a users group of hobbysts and professionals. People show up > > >>because they like what the other people showing up are doing. > > >> > > >>The community is the service. > > >>Right? > > >> > > >> > > > > > >Wrong. > > > > > >William, I believe, is referring to the incorped GTALUG Inc. that has been > > >going around and collecting membership fees from people at TLUG and NewTLUG > > >and Linux World but have yet to say publicly what the money is for, who is > > >running GTALUG (the biz), why they think that they represent TLUG and NewTLUG > > >(and now westlug [or phlug??? are they the same]) plus a bunch of other > > >questions. > > > > > >In fact, I think that IBM has asked them to stop the membership drive at the > > >IBM meeting location for NewTLUG until such information comes forth. > > > > > >Hope this clarifies the question. It probably raises many more, though ;) > > > > > >Regards, > > > > > > > > One question that it raises is about money, but TLUG money. When I > > joined back in 1999 or 2000, I paid a membership fee and received a TLUG > > membership card. That was at a computerfest when TLUG also sold a pile > > of Caldera CDs for $5 each (anyone remember that one?). I believe a few > > thousand dollars were raised that year, some people would know the > > correct amount. I thought the membership was reasonable and would have > > made a similar annual contribution had it been requested. > > > > Some of that money may have been used up in the effort to incorporate > > TLUG (don't know if it was), but the cost of incorporation was suppose > > to have been much less than the amount collected. > > > > The questions it raises are: how was the money spent (if any), who is > > looking after the account now, and how much $$ is left over? > > > > I have always been curious about that. It's important to have trust in > > what happened in the past before one can support some future endeavours > > involving the collection of money. > > As far as I can tell, nearly all of that money went towards the cost > of "lawyering up" to deal with incorporation. > > You can set up a business corporation for just a few hundred dollars, > but for a not-for-profit, the necessity of defining various things > formally makes it quite a bit more expensive. > > Further, NUANS searches were made more expensive by the fact that > several names had to be searched for until something that didn't > conflict was found. Notably, "TLUG" conflicts with plenty of existing > names. Tokyo may be most prominent; Toledo is only a few hours drive > away... > > So far, there hasn't been indication of there being terribly much > (outside of the legal costs) that money winds up being good for. > > -> GTALUG could use a projector > > Though the result would be fairly much isomorphic to the present > situation where it uses borrowed ones; there would be the IDENTICAL > need to stuff the projector some place for 29 days a month... > > -> There might be a need to pay something for meeting venue. > > But once you get away from "free," renting real estate winds up being > quite spectacularly expensive. > > -> A traditional reason to need an incorporated LUG is to allow that > to be used for infrastructure for conferences. > > But RWL comes and goes without any need of that infrastructure... > > -> It would be useful for GTALUG to have an "InstallFest kit" > consisting of a few PCs, a router, and an assortment of bits of "extra > hardware". > > Which might be $1K worth of hardware all tolled, with the same > situation as with the projector where it needs to get stashed most of > the time and transported for each (relevant) meeting. > -- > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html > "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 16:40:36 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:40:36 -0400 Subject: Kppp In-Reply-To: <20050707214926.6ca1554c.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050707214926.6ca1554c.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20050708164036.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 09:49:26PM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > Does anybody know how to run Kppp from Red Hat and from Fedora without giving up root's password. I have already tried writing a C program with the root's user ID bit turned on, and Red Hat intercepted that. > > Red Hat is doing such a good job of protecting me from the user ID bit that I have to give up root's password. Well redhat used to have a nice netuser or something command that was setuid that any user (or users in a certain group) could run that would dial the connection for you, assuming it was configured using redhat's netconf or whatever utility for setting up dialup and other networking. I always highly recomend NOT using kppp. It has often in the past given errors when there was nothing wrong (other than with the people who wrote kppp and their code perhaps). It's yet another thing that the distribution handles already in a non graphical/desktop dependant manner, than a desktop environment has no business being involved in. If kde wants to do something useful, they could make a nice little gui dialer that uses the underlying distributions method of dialing. on debian they would be using pon/poff to control the dial up link. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 16:41:01 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050708122903.A17736-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > 5) I would like to point out to everyone that you all live in > Canada, and any official organization in Canada who claims to have > members MUST have a non-zero membership fee, collected at least once > a year. You can complain about it to your member of parliament if > you don't like this arrangement. This is not true. The Toronto Free-Net, for example, is incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation, and charges no membership dues; in fact, its by-laws prohibit any such dues. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 17:50:54 2005 From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 13:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050708122903.A17736-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <18409.129.33.49.251.1120845054.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > I don't understand why this question comes up and why it always ends up > revolving around money. AFAIK, because none of the answers are formally documented anywhere and people are asking for money with no clear authority to represent the group and no explanation of what the money is for. Your email explains stuff, but aside from being a long time member, I don't know what your authority is. -Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 18:10:33 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 08 Jul 2005 14:10:33 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050708122903.A17736-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org writes: > I don't understand why this question comes up and why it always ends up > revolving around money. Bill, Read through my posts. I am not asking any questions about money. I'm asking for someone from GTALUG to come forward and address the confusion over who/what GTALUG is and what they want to accomplish and why TLUG and the other local LUGs need/want to be involved with GTALUG. All of the other times that I have seen a LUG move from a loose bunch of volunteers to an official incorporated entity, there was public discussion and inclusion of all of the members of the LUG. Even if it was moved to a side mailing list. > 1) We were faced with a situation where we did not have any official status > and thus couldn't get private and public organizations to sponsor us for > anything. The people at IBM today are asking us why we need this, but the > same group was openly asking why they could get tax receipts six years > ago. Other companies were doing the same thing. This was back when we still > had active volunteers that did talk to people about sponsoring TLUG. We were always able to get sponsors before. CLUE's federal incorporation status was always made available for TLUG activities (such as the CLUE/TLUG COMDEX booths last century). Actually, I don't think that CLUE was even incorporated for the first COMDEX. > 2) The volunteer group, specifically the ones that have been doing the behind > the scenes work have been doing it for five to seven years without thanks, or > appreciation, and quite frankly have gotten tired of it. The incorporation > structure allows people to come and go from the volunteer staff with little > problems. It doesn't solve the problem of finding the volunteers, but at > least we know when we need to fill posts. This one makes little sense to me. We've always filled posts by asking on the mailing list. > 3) It allows some kind of order in both picking and removing people from the > executive. In the past we have had up to four rival LUG simluateously in > Toronto because people didn't like what the executive was doing but was > powerless make any changes. As a member of GTALUG do you have methods of > making changes. We have? What were these 'rival' LUGs? I count NewTLUG as a separate LUG because, AFAIK, Herb is running that show and knows nothing about what GTALUG is doing. > 4) In 1999 (correct me if I'm wrong about the date), Matt organized a tlug > membership drive at comdex, and raised approximately $5000 (correct me if I'm > wrong, I quoting George's numbers from 2001), and handed over a little less > than $2000 to Clive, George and committee (remember the committee everyone) > for the purposes of incorpation. Actually, the COMDEX money went to paying for show expenses and CLUE's incorporation (and some still sitting in the bank). It was the first membership drive at a ComputerFest (I think that's what they're called) that raised the money for the incorporation. > There have also been other 'membership drives' by other groups claiming to > represent TLUG. By becoming an official organization we can at least claim > that those other parties don't represent TLUG. There have? Why was it never mentioned on the list? This is the first that I have ever heard about this. The other side of this, though, is "Why does GTALUG believe that it represents TLUG (and NewTLUG and westlug)?" > We have gotten people threaten to sue us in the past because either members > on the list claiming to speak for TLUG have tried to make deals with > business on our behalf. We aren't obligated to honour such deals, but it > did breed anomisity towards us for no reason. GTALUG can get sued just as well. I hope that the directors have appropriate E&O and liability insurance. > 6) The fee is arbitrary and we have control over what we charge. The $20 was > cosen because its a token amount that most people don't have a problem > parting with. I guess we were wrong. I've got $20 ready for when the exec of GTALUG come to TLUG (or NewTLUG or westlug) to do a presentation. It isn't about the money. > The reason GTALUG exist as a legal entity is two fold: back when incororation > was started we were being asked by the business community to provide such > infrastructure to facilitate donations of facilities to our cause; and the > legal framework allows the rest of the world to be able to identify us and > thus avoiding people who claim to represent the group. I represent TLUG all of the time. I am not a member of GTALUG. Am I going to be hearing from GTALUG's lawyers soon? Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 18:56:53 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 14:56:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Jul 2005, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > William, I believe, is referring to the incorped GTALUG Inc. that has been > going around and collecting membership fees from people at TLUG and NewTLUG > and Linux World but have yet to say publicly what the money is for, who is I can propose one very practical application for the membership fees. GTALUG needs a projector. We are currently relying on members (in particular Christopher Browne) to carry along a projector for the club to use. I propose GTALUG (Inc) purchase a project for use at meetings. It could even be shared among different groups (NewTLUG, WestTLUG, etc) as needed and would be a great asset. Rob GTALUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 19:44:59 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 12:44:59 -0700 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> > I represent TLUG all of the time. I am not a member of GTALUG. Just want to clarify this point: GTALUG _is_ TLUG. More precisely, was formerly known as TLUG. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 20:02:17 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2005 16:02:17 -0400 Subject: Kppp In-Reply-To: <20050708164036.GV23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050707214926.6ca1554c.hgibson@eol.ca> <20050708164036.GV23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42CEDBC9.2030705@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I always highly recomend NOT using kppp. It has often in the past given > errors when there was nothing wrong (other than with the people who > wrote kppp and their code perhaps). I've found that kppp works well, unlike kinternet. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 20:47:38 2005 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 08 Jul 2005 16:47:38 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050708124434afee91-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: psema4 writes: > > I represent TLUG all of the time. I am not a member of GTALUG. > > Just want to clarify this point: GTALUG _is_ TLUG. More precisely, > was formerly known as TLUG. Which is precisely the problem Matt has been pointing out. He (and others) have been "representing" TLUG in various ways for a long time primarily through volunteer activities. For example, he coordinated speakers for a couple of years. Yet he's not formally a member of GTALUG and neither is he fully informed about its purpose and activities. He suggested GTALUG (or rather its executive) make a presentation at an upcoming TLUG meeting to let everybody know what the heck they're up to. That seems pretty reasonable to me. -- tim writer starnix inc. 647.722.5301 toronto, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Jul 8 22:44:44 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 18:44:44 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0507081544592c1083@mail.gmail.com> On 08 Jul 2005 16:47:38 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > psema4 writes: > > > > I represent TLUG all of the time. I am not a member of GTALUG. > > > > Just want to clarify this point: GTALUG _is_ TLUG. More precisely, > > was formerly known as TLUG. > > Which is precisely the problem Matt has been pointing out. He (and others) > have been "representing" TLUG in various ways for a long time primarily > through volunteer activities. For example, he coordinated speakers for a > couple of years. Yet he's not formally a member of GTALUG and neither is he > fully informed about its purpose and activities. He suggested GTALUG (or > rather its executive) make a presentation at an upcoming TLUG meeting to let > everybody know what the heck they're up to. That seems pretty reasonable to > me. Here too. As a side-note, the reason I came to the open exec meeting in May (I think) was because I was curious to see the inner workings of GTALUG (nee TLUG) - after the last time these topics were brought up in earnest. I'm a newbie member, but in my view, UG's exist for one purpose and one purpose only. To encourage and build community. Community's value to GTALUG is everything. It's a symbiotic relationship driven by... the community. Glad to be here[1]. -- - SGE [1] Recursion. It's addictive. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 03:42:59 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 23:42:59 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 08 Jul 2005 16:47:38 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > Which is precisely the problem Matt has been pointing out. He (and others) > have been "representing" TLUG in various ways for a long time primarily > through volunteer activities. For example, he coordinated speakers for a > couple of years. Yet he's not formally a member of GTALUG and neither is he > fully informed about its purpose and activities. He suggested GTALUG (or > rather its executive) make a presentation at an upcoming TLUG meeting to let > everybody know what the heck they're up to. That seems pretty reasonable to > me. Me too. I'd love to see some information on what's been going on in GTALUG, like - meeting minutes (or excerpts, if us "non-members" can't see them) - Constitution and/or manifesto, describing the purpose of the organization I've been asking about this stuff every few months, and the answers I get are "it's coming real soon now", but nothing ever does. Also, along with a presentation, a nice handout, or softcopy (obtainable from the GTALUG site), in the form of a FAQ, would be nice. My $0.02... pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 03:52:29 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2005 23:52:29 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050708122903.A17736-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On 7/8/05, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > 2) The volunteer group, specifically the ones that have been doing the behind the scenes > work have been doing it for five to seven years without thanks, or appreciation, and quite > frankly have gotten tired of it. The incorporation structure allows people to come and go > from the volunteer staff with little problems. It doesn't solve the problem of finding the > volunteers, but at least we know when we need to fill posts. I don't understand this. If you're involved in TLUG in order to get recognition heaped on you, then (in my mind) you're doing it for the wrong reasons. If you are "tired" of working in an organization as a volunteer, then simply leave. Stop doing it; someone else from the list or the group will likely pick up the slack, and do it for the good of the group, not that of the ego. > The reason GTALUG exist as a legal entity is two fold: back when incororation was > started we were being asked by the business community to provide such infrastructure > to facilitate donations of facilities to our cause; and the legal framework allows the rest > of the world to be able to identify us and thus avoiding people who claim to represent the > group. I find it very hard to believe that incorporation was necessary just to find facilities. There are facilities available for no cost, you just have to find them. It just doesn't make any sense to me. There must be Linux-friendly businesses in the Toronto area that would love to donate a room once a month to hold a meeting. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 04:29:21 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 00:29:21 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 08 Jul 2005 11:22:04 -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Christopher Browne writes: > > So far, there hasn't been indication of there being terribly much > > (outside of the legal costs) that money winds up being good for. > > > > > > Sounds a bit like that circular argument that I mentioned earlier ;) > > Chris, aren't you a (board) member of GTALUG? Perhaps we should invite > GTALUG to give a talk at TLUG, NewTLUG, ... > > It could really help clear up the confusion. No, I'm afraid I'm "without portfolio," and there's pretty much just formal positioned/titled folk at this point on the Board. It seems to me that responsibility for making sure that messages get out likely falls to the President, namely Drew. Bill Thamer has been working eminently hard on such things; I think he needs some help from on the executive to spread appropriate word. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 12:59:02 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 08:59:02 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; 2600 swap meet Message-ID: <42CFCA16.6080104@sympatico.ca> Tomorrow (Sunday) members of the Toronto 2600 will be setting up tables, outside linuxcaffe, to peddle a wide array of computer junk.. err.. equipment; CPUs, monitors, memory, books, radio gak etc. ;-) Old stuff, new stuff, from Amiga to Zipdrive. the sale will be happening from 10am to 5pm (?) I would suggest swooping in early, if you want a shot at the good stuff. linuxcaffe is STILL at 326 Harbord, that's the corner of Harbord and Grace, 1 (long) block south of Christie subway. http://maps.google.com/maps?q=326+Harbord+St,+Toronto,+ON,+Canada&spn=0.030026,0.058056&hl=en see you there ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 17:25:40 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 13:25:40 -0400 Subject: not-for-profit membership fees In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <1120929940.26707.14.camel@holden.weait.net> On Fri, 2005-07-08 at 12:41, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jul 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > 5) I would like to point out to everyone that you all live in > > Canada, and any official organization in Canada who claims to have > > members MUST have a non-zero membership fee, collected at least once > > a year. You can complain about it to your member of parliament if > > you don't like this arrangement. > > This is not true. The Toronto Free-Net, for example, is > incorporated as a not-for-profit corporation, and charges no > membership dues; in fact, its by-laws prohibit any such dues. I asked a law student about the apparent conflict in the two above quotes. Perhaps billt you can clarify if there is a specific statute that you refer to when mentioning 'official organization.' Here is what I got as a reply. "I had a look at the Canadian and Ontario Corporations Acts and Regulations and found them essentially similar on the matter of not-for-profit corporations generally. See: http://www.attorneygeneral.jus.gov.on.ca/english/family/pgt/nfpinc/default.asp for a general guideline of setting up a not for profit corporation in Ontario, which appears to be the guiding area for a local organization. The relevant statute is the Ontario Corporations Act, part III: http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/DBLaws/Statutes/English/90c38_e.htm Nothing in the Corporations Act demands that a membership fee must be charged, or that if charged, it must be a "non zero" amount. If one were setting up a non profit corporation nationally, I suspect that the Canada Corporations Act would apply. I could find no reference in this statute to any requirement for membership fees of any sort. Generally with non profit corporations it appears that the by laws must specify how membership will be granted and withdrawn, but it does not appear that either the provincial or federal legislation mandates forms of membership fees." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 17:29:47 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 13:29:47 -0400 Subject: CLUE and linux.ca Message-ID: <1120930187.26707.17.camel@holden.weait.net> Hi all, Is CLUE and/or linux.ca a not-for-profit? Cheers, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 18:34:48 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 14:34:48 -0400 Subject: CLUE and linux.ca In-Reply-To: <1120930187.26707.17.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <1120930187.26707.17.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050709113473027bce@mail.gmail.com> On 7/9/05, interlug-list wrote: > Hi all, > > Is CLUE and/or linux.ca a not-for-profit? To my knowledge CLUE (is linux.ca) is nfp. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 21:04:35 2005 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 17:04:35 -0400 Subject: Card reader/writer In-Reply-To: <42CD504B.3090904-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42CD504B.3090904@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Well, hopefully, in the fullness of time I'll get it working. Let me know what you need and I'm sure I get get that done for ya! Martin ----Original Message Follows---- From: David J Patrick Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Card reader/writer Date: Thu, 07 Jul 2005 11:54:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from acheron.ss.org ([206.108.5.1]) by mc1-f40.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Thu, 7 Jul 2005 08:55:55 -0700 Received: by acheron.ss.org (Postfix)id EF7C5121337; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 11:54:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by acheron.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)id E4EF6121338; Thu, 7 Jul 2005 11:54:54 -0400 (EDT) X-Message-Info: UZmYcfFpTCcC7v42kzzA4eqQJhc+mBwYisWWkua1dTM= Delivered-To: tlug-route-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg at public.gmane.org X-Original-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Delivered-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (X11/20050404) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: X-Enigmail-Version: 0.90.2.0 X-Enigmail-Supports: pgp-inline, pgp-mime Precedence: list Return-Path: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Jul 2005 15:55:56.0422 (UTC) FILETIME=[5C793260:01C5830C] Martin Duclos wrote: > HI All, > I have just aquired a 3 track card reader/writer from magtek. I am > trying to find sofware to read and write cards with the device. If and when you get it going, might you offer a small card writing service ? We could use a few cards written to,here at the ol' linuxcaffe. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml W -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rhennick-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 23:59:57 2005 From: rhennick-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (Richard Hennick) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 19:59:57 -0400 Subject: Naked DSL providers in Toronto? Message-ID: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> A friend is looking for a provider of Naked DSL (i.e. without an existing phone number) in TO, other than Bell itself. I know the topic has come up; any recommendations from the list? canadianisp.com doesn't list this as a criterion, so the alternative is to dig through all the ISPs on their list... Thanks in advance! -- taglines? we don't need no steenkin taglines. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 02:10:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:10:11 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jul 08, 2005 at 11:42:59PM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > On 08 Jul 2005 16:47:38 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > > > Which is precisely the problem Matt has been pointing out. He (and > > others) have been "representing" TLUG in various ways for a long > > time primarily through volunteer activities. For example, he > > coordinated speakers for a couple of years. Yet he's not formally a > > member of GTALUG and neither is he fully informed about its purpose > > and activities. He suggested GTALUG (or rather its executive) make a > > presentation at an upcoming TLUG meeting to let everybody know what > > the heck they're up to. That seems pretty reasonable to me. > > Me too. > > I'd love to see some information on what's been going on in GTALUG, like > - meeting minutes (or excerpts, if us "non-members" can't see them) > - Constitution and/or manifesto, describing the purpose of the organization > > I've been asking about this stuff every few months, and the answers I > get are "it's coming real soon now", but nothing ever does. > > Also, along with a presentation, a nice handout, or softcopy > (obtainable from the GTALUG site), in the form of a FAQ, would be > nice. I'm opposed to this. This takes time/money, without being tied to revenue. Look, people... CLUE has cost. I don't see CLUE going around detailing their fiscal balance at TLUG meeting. GTALUG is less than a year old, and people are already complaining about us not publishing our books for CLUE people to examine. What is this? It's like GM complaining about Toyota not publishing list of their suppliers. I get the feeling that this is bubbling up from something that happened before my time. Let's move forward... My original aim was this: GTALUG is not doing much now. But, we should be. So, what do we (as group) want to do? What kind of "service" should we provide? Who is "our community"? ... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 02:19:27 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Jul 2005 22:19:27 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050710021927.GB2866@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Jul 08, 2005 at 11:52:29PM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > I find it very hard to believe that incorporation was necessary just > to find facilities. There are facilities available for no cost, you > just have to find them. It just doesn't make any sense to me. There > must be Linux-friendly businesses in the Toronto area that would love > to donate a room once a month to hold a meeting. Come on, Paul. The only reason why NewTLUG meet there, is because of you. Otherwise, IBM would be hosting LUGs in every city they have office. At this point, Microsoft can sponser us. I'm all for it. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 22:44:31 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 22:44:31 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c@mail.look.ca> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050709224431.53579afe@mail.look.ca> At 11:27 PM 2005/07/07 -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >On Thu, 7 Jul 2005, James McIntosh wrote: > >> At 05:37 PM 2005/07/07 -0400, David J Patrick >> wrote: >> >> --------- >>> linuxcaffe is ... 10 feet from a bus stop >> >> Would you happen to know the bus route number, and its subway station of >> departure ? > > Wellesley, No. 94 > > > > It runs from Ossington to Castle Frank via Wellesley. > >-- > Chris F.A. Johnson > ======================================== > Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress > Thanks. I enjoying the introduction to you at the PegaSoft meeting, introduction to P.H.P., in the new location, (The Office, or similar), about three blocks east of the Islington subway station. Jim McIntosh --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sat Jul 9 23:02:49 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sat, 09 Jul 2005 23:02:49 Subject: Change of meeting place. In-Reply-To: <42CDF32D.9060108-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c@mail.look.ca> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050706203852.GA21544@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050706185022.B4435@diamond.ss.org> <20050707000328.GA22116@node1.opengeometry.net> <42CD9246.8040804@rogers.com> <3.0.6.16.20050707231636.5c1f7d8c@mail.look.ca> <42CDF32D.9060108@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050709230249.5357915a@mail.look.ca> At 11:29 PM 2005/07/07 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >James McIntosh wrote: > >> >>Yes, linuxcaffe is one block (in terms of traffic lights) south of Christie >>Station. I think that there are 'mini-blocklets' (?) within this path. >ac2ally, the walk south is punctuated by 1 alley, no other streets. I guess that in a neighbourhood unfamiliar to me I hallucinated 1 alley into 1 or more tiny streets without traffic. >That's not to say it ain't a /long/ block , ;-) Yes, a /long/ block, but some are even longer. >>------------------------------------------------------- >>>linuxcaffe is ... 10 feet from a bus stop >>Would you happen to know the bus route number, and its subway station of >>departure ? >94 (I think, don't quote me, I'll get back to ya) departing from >Wellesley (and Ossington station, at the other end) >>(If you don't know, don't bother: I can ask various T.T.C. personnel at >>Wellesley Station.) On Friday, I was travelling south on Bathurst from Bloor Street West to Queen Street West, through Harbord, and the bus driver mentioned Wellesley Station and Ossington Station via Harbord as its route. I later visited the Wellesley Station, and found that her statement of route number (92) was wrong, it is 94. (Just exactly as you and Chris F. A. Johnston mentioned.) Chris F. A. Johnston also mentioned that its route extends eastward to Castle Frank Station. >>---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>I very much enjoy the conversation contributions that you make to the >>after-meeting pub get-togethers. Stay cool in the summer heat ! >> >why thanks JM ! Your perspective is refreshing, too ! >djp I don't even remember what I might have said, but thanks! Jim McIntosh -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 04:50:45 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 00:50:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710021011.GA2866-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 9 Jul 2005, William Park wrote: > > I'd love to see some information on what's been going on in GTALUG, like > > - meeting minutes (or excerpts, if us "non-members" can't see them) > > - Constitution and/or manifesto, describing the purpose of the organization > > I've been asking about this stuff every few months, and the answers I > > get are "it's coming real soon now", but nothing ever does... > > I'm opposed to this. This takes time/money, without being tied to > revenue. It's called "public relations", and it *is* tied to revenue, just somewhat indirectly. It's not good business to leave potential members/volunteers wondering what the organization is up to, and where the money is going, and whether you're worth supporting or not. Even if setting up a web site etc. is more time and effort than is readily available, talking to people -- both formally, as a short presentation at some likely meeting, and informally, when asked -- is an investment in the organization's future. Persistently failing to do so is a big mistake: it looks like you've got something to hide. Under no circumstances should you be soliciting money without being willing to explain, in as much detail as people want, where it's going to go. Some initial delay while things get sorted out is understandable, but sorting them out well enough that public statements become possible needs to be a priority. Yes, it's an annoying distraction, but it's also a necessary one. > ...GTALUG is less than a year old, > and people are already complaining about us not publishing our books... There's a difference between wanting to know what you're up to and wanting to see gory details like financial statements. Confusing the two makes you sound defensive -- a standard tactic of people trying to cover something up is to exaggerate what questioners are asking for, so it can be rejected as obviously ridiculous. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 07:22:47 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 03:22:47 -0400 Subject: Installing on an external hard drive Message-ID: <200507100322.47560.marc@lijour.net> Hi I believe it is possible to install easily a Mandriva system on a hard-drive mounted in an enclosure (USB). Questions Where to put the bootloader? (MBR will work?) What happens if the USB drive gets another ID? Thank you Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 09:08:38 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 05:08:38 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050710090838.GA3809@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 12:50:45AM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > > ...GTALUG is less than a year old, > > and people are already complaining about us not publishing our books... > > There's a difference between wanting to know what you're up to and wanting > to see gory details like financial statements. Confusing the two makes > you sound defensive -- a standard tactic of people trying to cover > something up is to exaggerate what questioners are asking for, so it can > be rejected as obviously ridiculous. But, GTATLUG hasn't done anything, and so there is nothing to report. The only expense that I've seen is related to the April trade show. This has been repeated so many time. What kind of report do you want? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 10:28:54 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 06:28:54 -0400 Subject: Installing on an external hard drive In-Reply-To: <200507100322.47560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200507100322.47560.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <42D0F866.7020107@rogers.com> Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > I believe it is possible to install easily a Mandriva system on a hard-drive > mounted in an enclosure (USB). > > Questions > Where to put the bootloader? (MBR will work?) > What happens if the USB drive gets another ID? The first thing, is to determine if the computer can boot a USB hard drive. Not all can. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 12:52:52 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 08:52:52 -0400 Subject: Installing on an external hard drive In-Reply-To: <42D0F866.7020107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200507100322.47560.marc@lijour.net> <42D0F866.7020107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200507100852.52287.marc@lijour.net> On July 10, 2005 06:28, James Knott wrote: > Marc Lijour wrote: > > Hi > > > > I believe it is possible to install easily a Mandriva system on a > > hard-drive mounted in an enclosure (USB). > > > > Questions > > Where to put the bootloader? (MBR will work?) > > What happens if the USB drive gets another ID? > > The first thing, is to determine if the computer can boot a USB hard > drive. Not all can. Ok. That is a new computer. Now I have already 2 or 3 usb devices connected to the the computer and I wonder how they will be numbered? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 15:10:10 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 11:10:10 -0400 Subject: Installing on an external hard drive In-Reply-To: <200507100852.52287.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200507100322.47560.marc@lijour.net> <42D0F866.7020107@rogers.com> <200507100852.52287.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On 7/10/05, Marc Lijour wrote: > On July 10, 2005 06:28, James Knott wrote: > > Marc Lijour wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > I believe it is possible to install easily a Mandriva system on a > > > hard-drive mounted in an enclosure (USB). > > > > > > Questions > > > Where to put the bootloader? (MBR will work?) > > > What happens if the USB drive gets another ID? > > > > The first thing, is to determine if the computer can boot a USB hard > > drive. Not all can. > > Ok. That is a new computer. Now I have already 2 or 3 usb devices connected to > the the computer and I wonder how they will be numbered? With modern filesystems, you can attach labels to them so that mount can go and look for the appropriately-labelled partition and mount it at the right spot. I'd be unsurprised to see them vary between /dev/sda, /dev/sdb, /dev/sdc, and such... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 16:19:16 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:19:16 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710021011.GA2866-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sat, Jul 09, 2005 at 10:10:11PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2005 at 11:42:59PM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > > On 08 Jul 2005 16:47:38 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > > > > > Which is precisely the problem Matt has been pointing out. He (and > > > others) have been "representing" TLUG in various ways for a long > > > time primarily through volunteer activities. For example, he > > > coordinated speakers for a couple of years. Yet he's not formally a > > > member of GTALUG and neither is he fully informed about its purpose > > > and activities. He suggested GTALUG (or rather its executive) make a > > > presentation at an upcoming TLUG meeting to let everybody know what > > > the heck they're up to. That seems pretty reasonable to me. > > > > Me too. > > > > I'd love to see some information on what's been going on in GTALUG, like > > - meeting minutes (or excerpts, if us "non-members" can't see them) > > - Constitution and/or manifesto, describing the purpose of the organization > > > > I've been asking about this stuff every few months, and the answers I > > get are "it's coming real soon now", but nothing ever does. > > > > Also, along with a presentation, a nice handout, or softcopy > > (obtainable from the GTALUG site), in the form of a FAQ, would be > > nice. > > I'm opposed to this. This takes time/money, without being tied to > revenue. > > Look, people... CLUE has cost. I don't see CLUE going around detailing > their fiscal balance at TLUG meeting. GTALUG is less than a year old, > and people are already complaining about us not publishing our books for > CLUE people to examine. What is this? It's like GM complaining about > Toyota not publishing list of their suppliers. I get the feeling that > this is bubbling up from something that happened before my time. > > Let's move forward... > > My original aim was this: > GTALUG is not doing much now. But, we should be. So, what do we > (as group) want to do? What kind of "service" should we provide? > Who is "our community"? ... Uh, no, this is not GM asking Toyota to explain its finances. This is the employees of Toyota asking the people who claim to have created a union to explain why they should pay union dues and join this union when they were happy working without a union. I have yet to see any need to membership dues justified - there have been a few handwaving arguments that might be fleshed out into true justifications with some work, but I'm still somewhat skeptical. The fact that you seem to be searching for ways to spend the money and accomplish services tells me that there isn't a clear need. Worrying about whether IBM will continue to provide a location seems ridiculous. A group that focusses on computer issues will always have some members that work for large enough organizations that finding one of them to provide a location will always be possible, and having a formal organization and dues will ot affect the issues for this in the slightest. For this kind of group, a formal organization and dues is not an especially important facet is its success. The important thing is for people to be interested. Out of those interested people, a small subset that is enthused will make things happen. The Toronto Perl Mongers group (TPM) just finished putting on a conference (YAPC::NA). It ran for 3 days, with 3 parallel tracks of talks each day, and an extra track for one day. There was a cruise on Lake Ontario with a dinner one evening for all participants. But TPM is not a formal non-profit organization. There are no membership dues. There are simply people who are interested and enthused (and, for the moment, burned out - but most of them will regain their enthusiasm, and new people will replace those that burn out permanently). It is true that TPM did need to use the auspices of a couple of formal organizations in this process. The Perl Foundation (a U.S. non-profit) provided the umbrella structure, and LPI provided the ability to accept Canadian credit card deposits. For a once in a decade kind of event, makig use of outside resources for a few items is reasonable. For the ongoing meetings, though, the informal group structure works fine. Individual members provide the necessary services: - monthly meetings + arrange meeting locations for the monthly talks (there have been 2 locations over the 10 years) + arrange speakers for the onthly talks (usually members volunteer, occassionally an outside speaker is brought in - sometimes a local non-perl person with a related topic, sometimes a perl person is brought in from afar like Damian Conway has been a few times over the years) + record and publish audio recordings of talks at the monthly meetings + arrange the pub for after-talk social discussion - host a web site - host a mailing list - arrange ride sharing for trips to other groups None of this required dues or a formal organization, just the personal incentive of the interested participants. So, why does TLUG (which you are renaming to GTALUG) need all this baggage and what does it actually gain us? -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 16:30:06 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 12:30:06 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710161916.GA6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <42D14D0E.1080304@cheapersafer.com> The other day I was walking down the street and encountered a group of homeless people screaming incomprehensible gibberish at each other as they attempted to resolve a dispute. I'd say that based on this thread, the biggest benefit of TLUG to the community is that it gives the participants somewhere to carry on similar discussions that doesn't involve blocking up the public sidewalk. Speaking of benefits, one of the benefits of Thunderbird that I've discovered is that you can put a subject line into a filter rule and block out threads that you feel are a waste of your time. Rob Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416) 407-1391 -- Cry 'Run It' and let slip the Fox of Fire! http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 18:01:09 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:01:09 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710161916.GA6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050710180109.GA2069@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 12:19:16PM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > None of this required dues or a formal organization, just the > personal incentive of the interested participants. > > So, why does TLUG (which you are renaming to GTALUG) need all > this baggage and what does it actually gain us? I'm told, we can't solicit money unless we're Inc. Just like LPI/CLUE can't go looking for sponsors unless they're Inc. Why they have problem with us doing the same thing as they are doing... ahh, I get the picture. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada ThinFlash: Linux thin-client on USB key (flash) drive http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/thinflash.html BashDiff: Super Bash shell http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 18:14:42 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:14:42 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710161916.GA6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>; from john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 12:19:16PM -0400 References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> > I have yet to see any need to membership dues justified - > there have been a few handwaving arguments that might be > fleshed out into true justifications with some work, but I'm > still somewhat skeptical. > The justification is very easy to understand. If you want to become a voting member of TLUG you have to pay your dues. If you don't wish to or care to vote on the future direction of TLUG you don't have to pay your dues. What the money is used for is a mute point. Today it is sitting in a bank account collecting interest. What use it is put to tomorrow is up to the paying members. > The fact that you seem to be searching for ways to spend the > money and accomplish services tells me that there isn't a > clear need. Again this is a mute point. When such needs arise the money will be available. I doubt you have a clear need for the RRSP you own. They are there for some indeterminate future use labeled retirement. > > For this kind of group, a formal organization and dues is not > an especially important facet is its success. The important > thing is for people to be interested. Out of those interested > people, a small subset that is enthused will make things happen. > And it is those same interested and enthused people that went ahead and formalized the group as a corporation. Also I should point out this was done with the blessing of the list at the time. > > But TPM is not a formal non-profit organization. I applaud the members of TPM but its still a mute point. You are correct in saying that TPM is not a formal non-profu organization, but GTALUG, and thus TLUG presently is. No amount of arguing over membership dues, what to do with the money, what the vision statement is etc... is going to change the fact that the government of Canada has issued a charter to GTALUG Inc. for the purposes of running this group. > > So, why does TLUG (which you are renaming to GTALUG) need all > this baggage and what does it actually gain us? > You are too late in asking this question. The baggage is there. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 18:31:17 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 14:31:17 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710180109.GA2069-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710180109.GA2069@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050710183117.GB6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 02:01:09PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 12:19:16PM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > > None of this required dues or a formal organization, just the > > personal incentive of the interested participants. > > > > So, why does TLUG (which you are renaming to GTALUG) need all > > this baggage and what does it actually gain us? > > I'm told, we can't solicit money unless we're Inc. Just like LPI/CLUE > can't go looking for sponsors unless they're Inc. Why they have problem > with us doing the same thing as they are doing... ahh, I get the > picture. TPM found lots of sponsors for the conference. For smaller items (like sponsoring Damian Conway's visits), individuals offer some of their own money and businesses join in too. Noone has complained about there needing to be an Inc. for this and I don't see that any of it would have been made any easier with incorporation - just that a lot of people's time would have been taken up in the process of creating and maintaining the incorporation process. The loss of that time is up to the people who chose to apply their time in that way - open source means deciding which itch you want to scratch - but if the subsequent result affects other people and their choices of how they apply their time, then that can be an issue. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 19:31:04 2005 From: csmillie-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Colin Smillie) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:31:04 -0400 Subject: Naked DSL providers in Toronto? In-Reply-To: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> References: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> Message-ID: On 7/9/05, Richard Hennick wrote: > A friend is looking for a provider of Naked DSL (i.e. without an existing > phone number) in TO, other than Bell itself. I know the topic has come > up; any recommendations from the list? I wasn't aware you could order DSL without a phone line in Canada. Every DSL provided I've used ( Bell & Primus ) has had this a requirement for service. Colin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 19:44:45 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 15:44:45 -0400 Subject: Naked DSL providers in Toronto? In-Reply-To: References: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> Message-ID: <42D17AAD.7020100@istop.com> Colin Smillie wrote: > On 7/9/05, Richard Hennick wrote: > >>A friend is looking for a provider of Naked DSL (i.e. without an existing >>phone number) in TO, other than Bell itself. I know the topic has come >>up; any recommendations from the list? > > > I wasn't aware you could order DSL without a phone line in Canada. > Every DSL provided I've used ( Bell & Primus ) has had this a > requirement for service. Both of you do not read carefully this list ;) Some information about that has been posted here in not many days ago. I am not going to do a search for you, though :) :) zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 20:03:10 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:03:10 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710141442.A24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> (Some reordering on the quoted sections.) On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 02:14:42PM -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > For this kind of group, a formal organization and dues is not > > an especially important facet is its success. The important > > thing is for people to be interested. Out of those interested > > people, a small subset that is enthused will make things happen. > > > And it is those same interested and enthused people that went ahead and formalized the group as a corporation. Also I should point out this was done with the blessing of the list at the time. There was discussion with the same mixture of people thinking that it was important+valuable/valueless+unnecessary. The interested and enthused felt it important enough to go ahead and do it - that's fine. That does not mean that the rest of TLUG is forever bound by the actions of this group. > > > I have yet to see any need to membership dues justified - > > there have been a few handwaving arguments that might be > > fleshed out into true justifications with some work, but I'm > > still somewhat skeptical. > > > The justification is very easy to understand. If you want to become a voting member of TLUG you have to pay your dues. If you don't wish to or care to vote on the future direction of TLUG you don't have to pay your dues. What the money is used for is a mute point. Today it is sitting in a bank account collecting interest. What use it is put to tomorrow is up to the paying members. Wrong. The people who pay their dues can decide the future directions of GTALUG, but I don't conceed they this group is now in charge and control of TLUG by virute of a small subset deciding that money was required for some purposes and collecting it. There have been other times when some people felt that TLUG had a need and went about to fulfill it, with a mixutre of people of agreeing that it was needed and others arguing that it was not. The success of those projects did not affect how TLUG was run. > > The fact that you seem to be searching for ways to spend the > > money and accomplish services tells me that there isn't a > > clear need. > Again this is a mute point. When such needs arise the money will be available. I doubt you have a clear need for the RRSP you own. They are there for some indeterminate future use labeled retirement. Having adequate income to continue to function in society after you are unable to earn ongoing income is a pretty clear goal. I'd put it as great deal better determined than the goals of the GTALUG money. > > > > But TPM is not a formal non-profit organization. > > I applaud the members of TPM but its still a mute point. You are correct in saying that TPM is not a formal non-profu organization, but GTALUG, and thus TLUG presently is. No amount of arguing over membership dues, what to do with the money, what the vision statement is etc... is going to change the fact that the government of Canada has issued a charter to GTALUG Inc. for the purposes of running this group. But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. > > > > So, why does TLUG (which you are renaming to GTALUG) need all > > this baggage and what does it actually gain us? > > > You are too late in asking this question. The baggage is there. Not really. You've got the baggage in GTALUG, but you haven't convinced me to accept it as part of TLUG or that you have any particular authority to do so without some sort of general large scale concensus. Other groups have felt interest and enthusiasm and created things for TLUG. Simple things, like finding a new location when an existing location became unavailable. Ongoing things like setting up a mailing list, or a web page. These projects are accepted or rejected by the members of TLUG - either they use the new feature, or they don't, and in either case they talk about it on the mailing list (so *that* project was guaranteed/doomed to succeed :-). But, just because those people did something that was determined to be useful did not make them the arbiters of all future direction for TLUG. You have been asked to justify your (claimed) position and this response simply replies "because I said so and somebody agreed". Perhaps, if you try again, you can come up with a more convincing argument. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 20:15:04 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:15:04 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710200310.GD6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>; from john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:03:10PM -0400 References: <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050710161504.B24124@diamond.ss.org> > > But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has > not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is > asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. > TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. > You are correct, what GTALUG should do is shut this list down completely, and require any interested parties to rejoin a new mailing list. This shouldn't be very hard to do, since the people operating this list are the excutive of GTALUG. Stay tuned. I personally think this is a good idea and will bring this up at the next board meeting. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 20:17:08 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:17:08 -0400 Subject: Naked DSL providers in Toronto? In-Reply-To: <42D17AAD.7020100-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>; from zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 03:44:45PM -0400 References: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> <42D17AAD.7020100@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050710161708.C24124@diamond.ss.org> > > Both of you do not read carefully this list ;) > > Some information about that has been posted here in not many days ago. I > am not going to do a search for you, though :) > > :) > Actually it was the May timeframe. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 20:34:53 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:34:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710161504.B24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050710161504.B24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > You are correct, what GTALUG should do is shut this list down > completely, and require any interested parties to rejoin a new mailing > list. This shouldn't be very hard to do, since the people operating this > list are the excutive of GTALUG... I can think of few better ways to show that GTALUG is bent on empire building rather than community building. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 20:47:41 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:47:41 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710200310.GD6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On 7/10/05, John Macdonald wrote: > (Some reordering on the quoted sections.) > The interested and enthused felt it important enough to go > ahead and do it - that's fine. That does not mean that the > rest of TLUG is forever bound by the actions of this group. There is a pretty forcible reason for this to in fact be the case. Almost more than anything else, TLUG is a domain and mailing list that are used to coordinate the meetings of a set of Linux enthusiasts around Toronto. Q1: Who arranges for doors to be opened at U(T)? Q2: Who owns the web/mail server that operates at tlug.ss.org? Q3: Who is the president of GTALUG? These three questions have *identical* answers. There is a very good argument that the organization known as "TLUG" is an absolute autocracy, and one that is held by just one person. In the beginning, any incorporated LUG winds up being nearly as much an autocracy as a small core starts out forcibly in charge until such time as the notion of "members" is defined and it strikes out into becoming more or less democratic. To put the "fine point" on it, TLUG is whatever Drew Sullivan thinks it is. The "future direction for TLUG" is, more or less by definition, whatever Drew wants that direction to be. If someone doesn't like that, there is no "higher body" to go to to modify that. The establishment of GTALUG is the establishment of a New Thing. And is a thing that defines some more or less democratic ways for it to be run. It has been pretty vital for a while now that the TLUG mailing list be dropped; "long live the GTALUG mailing list." The fact that the former part would take place in an autocratic manner demonstrates the necessity of something like GTALUG. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 20:55:34 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 16:55:34 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710200310.GD6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On 7/10/05, John Macdonald wrote: > But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has > not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is > asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. > TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. Sure, it has. TLUG *is* Drew Sullivan, more than anything else that you can formally look at. Who owns the web server? Drew. Who owns the mail server? Drew. Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? Drew. I can't see convincing arguments that point at any other nexus. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 21:12:01 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:12:01 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710161504.B24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710161504.B24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050710211201.GE6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:15:04PM -0400, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has > > not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is > > asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. > > TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. > > > You are correct, what GTALUG should do is shut this list down completely, and require any interested parties to rejoin a new mailing list. This shouldn't be very hard to do, since the people operating this list are the excutive of GTALUG. Stay tuned. I personally think this is a good idea and will bring this up at the next board meeting. And that is supposed to convince me that GTALUG is psoviding a useful service worth paying subscription fees? This looks more like extortion than a discussion of merit. Perhaps you should find a competant public relations officer to go with the rest of the incorporate trappings - you are not doing a good job here. You've gone from refusing to provide justification, to threatening to take my ball to your home. How about you instead ask that a second mailing list get created, restricted to people who acknowledge your authority, and see whether people move from this group voluntarily. I suspect that you'll get a fairly large number subsribe, but that they'll remain subscribed to this group and it will continue to provide the most important focus of Linux discussion. If you provide inspiration that captures people's interst and justifies the fess and organizational overhead, then the focus will switch to the new list and the old one will fade away. As far as I am concerned, the most valuable purpose of this group is to provide support for Linux at a local community level, and the mailing list and monthly meetings do an excellent job of that without any need for fees or formal organization. You're trying to convince me that fees and formal organization by saying that you'll take away the mailig list unless I agree to whatever you want. So, you've gone from providing an extra feature to TLG that I don't see any value in, to removing items that I do see value in. Off-hand, I doubt that Drew will shut this list down, but if that happens you will have lost the forum in which to convince me (and presumeably many others) that your group is worth joining. This discussion does not provide the impression of a group that *wants* people to join and get involved. Personally, I've been running Linux for 8 years (and other flavours of Unix systems for decades before that) and have been involved on this mailing list for much of those 7 or 8 years and occassionally gone to monthly meetings of either TLUG or NewTLUG (a few times per year - whenever the topic was of special interest and I was able to go). I'd hate to be shut out because of an impression that a small group has taken over and changed the direction and ruined the original meaning. Please work on your public image here - you've made a mess of the presentation so far. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 21:02:59 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:02:59 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: ; from henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:34:53PM -0400 References: <20050710161504.B24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050710170259.D24124@diamond.ss.org> Henry, GTALUG isn't bent on empire. It isn't bent on anything. GTALUG is the corporation created by the people that have run TLUG for the last 7 years or so, for the purpose of running TLUG. GTALUG isn't a separate entity, it is the TLUG management. This list for 10 years has been a private charity operated by a few people, and its list members were the recipants of this charity. Those same people also ran the various monthly meetings. And those same people decided to incorporate. You can question it all you want, but its done. Why does GTALUG believe we represent this list is simple. We run this list. We have been running this list for a little over a decade now. The incorporation isn't about money. It is about consolidating the groups efforts. And by group, I mean the 10 people that run everything not the 1000 or so people that benefit from it. Can we stop arguing over symatics. GTALUG Inc. is the people that run this list, and run the meetings. It includes, me, Herb, David, Robert, Drew, Gord, Leah, William, Joe, and Collin *. I'm certain few of these names even mean anything to most of the people on this list, but they are the ones that have been running TLUG both before and after it was incorporated. Bill * My apologize to anyone I missed. ** Please note that there are quite a few people that also volunteered to help this group in the past, and will do so in the future. On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:34:53PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > You are correct, what GTALUG should do is shut this list down > > completely, and require any interested parties to rejoin a new mailing > > list. This shouldn't be very hard to do, since the people operating this > > list are the excutive of GTALUG... > > I can think of few better ways to show that GTALUG is bent on empire > building rather than community building. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 21:10:16 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:10:16 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: ; from cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:55:34PM -0400 References: <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050710171016.E24124@diamond.ss.org> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:55:34PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/10/05, John Macdonald wrote: > > But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has > > not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is > > asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. > > TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. > > Sure, it has. > > TLUG *is* Drew Sullivan, more than anything else that you can formally look at. > > Who owns the web server? Drew. > Who owns the mail server? Drew. > Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? Drew. > > I can't see convincing arguments that point at any other nexus. > -- My opinion is that it has been Drew Sullivan and Committee since about 1999. The committee has had many rotating members since 1999, including both you and I. I would also place TLUG more of a meritocracy. If you sat and whined people ignored you, but if you picked up the ball (any ball) and ran (in any direction) than you were quickly invited into the inner circle where you stayed until you chose to leave. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 21:24:26 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:24:26 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050710212426.GF6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:55:34PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/10/05, John Macdonald wrote: > > But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has > > not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is > > asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. > > TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. > > Sure, it has. > > TLUG *is* Drew Sullivan, more than anything else that you can formally look at. > > Who owns the web server? Drew. > Who owns the mail server? Drew. > Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? Drew. > > I can't see convincing arguments that point at any other nexus. OK, let me see if I understand what you are syaing here. One person has provided all of the useful services for a valuable and thriving group. Since this is just one person, he is an autocrat. So it is imperative to create a different organization under the control of a few of the members of the original group to take over control of the entire group. I don't agree. A volunteer group is always run on the backs of a very small number of people, often one person. The issue is not whether one person as the power to carry out autocratic actions, but whether the actions they carry out generally provide useful value for the member with none of the actions being unacceptable. I haven't heard of any complaints about the actions taken by Drew. The only objectionable action I heard of is the idea of shutting down the tlug mailing list and requiring people to acknowledge the new cabal to join a replacement. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 21:14:50 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:14:50 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710212426.GF6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>; from john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 05:24:26PM -0400 References: <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710212426.GF6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050710171450.F24124@diamond.ss.org> > people to acknowledge the new cabal to join a replacement. This isn't a new cabal. Its the old cabal. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 21:47:18 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:47:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710170259.D24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050710170259.D24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > GTALUG isn't bent on empire. People will judge it by its actions, not by its alleged intentions. The suggested action -- shutting down a popular and useful mailing list, and then creating a new one to serve exactly the same purpose -- would be viewed by many people as making list members jump through hoops for no reason other than to entertain the list administrators. I can think of few more effective ways to generate ill will, and to convince people that GTALUG *is* bent on empire building. If that's not the message you want to send, then don't send it. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 22:37:20 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710090838.GA3809-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050710090838.GA3809@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, William Park wrote: > > ...a standard tactic of people trying to cover > > something up is to exaggerate what questioners are asking for, so it can > > be rejected as obviously ridiculous. > > But, GTATLUG hasn't done anything, and so there is nothing to report. > The only expense that I've seen is related to the April trade show. > This has been repeated so many time. What kind of report do you want? Where did I ask for a report? What people have mostly been asking for is *information*, not documents. People, including me, find it hard to believe that GTALUG is busily accumulating money but has no idea what will be done with it. They certainly don't see any reason why *they* should give GTALUG money without first hearing more details of how it will be used and what GTALUG's plans are. The suggestion of abolishing this mailing list and immediately creating a clone of it has a nasty smell of ego trips and empire building rather than of contributing helpful organization to an existing informal community. This isn't helping your case, guys. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 22:39:39 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:39:39 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: ; from henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 05:47:18PM -0400 References: <20050710170259.D24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050710183939.I24124@diamond.ss.org> Funny thing is the idea came up in the May executive meeting and I was the one giving the reasons you just gave as to why it shouldn't be done that way. One day it will be done. It will most likely be something completely seemless if at all possible. But you are missing my point. GTALUG is TLUG. It isn't some group that has to justify its existence. It is the group that controls the mailing list. It is the group that organizes the meetings. Its the group that runs the web site. Try going to tlug.ss.org and read the URL its redirected too. Bill On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 05:47:18PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > GTALUG isn't bent on empire. > > People will judge it by its actions, not by its alleged intentions. The > suggested action -- shutting down a popular and useful mailing list, and > then creating a new one to serve exactly the same purpose -- would be > viewed by many people as making list members jump through hoops for no > reason other than to entertain the list administrators. I can think of > few more effective ways to generate ill will, and to convince people that > GTALUG *is* bent on empire building. If that's not the message you want > to send, then don't send it. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 22:44:00 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:44:00 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <200507101844.01282.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On July 10, 2005 16:55, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 7/10/05, John Macdonald wrote: > > But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has > > not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is > > asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. > > TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. > > Sure, it has. > > TLUG *is* Drew Sullivan, more than anything else that you can formally look > at. > > Who owns the web server? Drew. > Who owns the mail server? Drew. > Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? Drew. Just curious, what is so complex about the configuration of the mail server and why? > I can't see convincing arguments that point at any other nexus. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 22:53:43 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:53:43 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: ; from henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 06:37:20PM -0400 References: <20050710090838.GA3809@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050710185343.J24124@diamond.ss.org> > > People, including me, find it hard to believe that GTALUG is busily > accumulating money but has no idea what will be done with it. They > certainly don't see any reason why *they* should give GTALUG money without > first hearing more details of how it will be used and what GTALUG's plans > are. There are several ideas, but at the moment the accumulation of money is really just filling a bank account. The main reason for the membership drive is to obtain bodies. The money will find a use in the future and its mere existence builds confidence that organization will survive. One big reason to obtain members is that an election isn't everyone on the board asking each other what title do they want this year. I realize this is a new concept seeing that TLUG has never had any elections (Drew was never elected by the way, neither was Lazlo, Drew's predessor), but its an important part of incorporating. By the way, this is the main topic of the August executive meeting. Anyone interested in this please attend. > > The suggestion of abolishing this mailing list and immediately creating a > clone of it has a nasty smell of ego trips and empire building rather than > of contributing helpful organization to an existing informal community. > This isn't helping your case, guys. > The problem is that this is no longer a informal cummunity. It is a formal organization. You don't have to be a member of this formal organization to be on this list or come to the meetings (because that was one of the mandates of GTALUG), but you have to accept the fact that this organization is what runs the mechanisms that allow this community to function. That is the mandate of GTALUG. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 22:59:26 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 18:59:26 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <200507101844.01282.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 06:44:00PM -0400 References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <200507101844.01282.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050710185926.K24124@diamond.ss.org> > > > > Who owns the web server? Drew. > > Who owns the mail server? Drew. > > Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? Drew. > > Just curious, what is so complex about the configuration of the mail server > and why? > The why : Drew wrote the procmail filters over the last ten years. Those filters aren't unique to TLUG. I also suspect that there were others involved in the creation of the mess, but have never bothered to ask if this was a group effort or not. The what : More than 95% of the tlug inbound messages are spam that are filtered out by the magic of procmail. I'm not convinced that its an impossible task, but no one wants to try to untangle the mess at the moment. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun Jul 10 23:52:10 2005 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 19:52:10 -0400 Subject: Open Office & PDFs Message-ID: <1121039529.27992.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> With Open Office, I can create a plane-jane PDF file which is a replicate of a document. How does one make those fancy PDFs with clickable go-to links, panes, etc? -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 00:29:01 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:29:01 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710185926.K24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <200507101844.01282.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20050710185926.K24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <200507102029.02246.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On July 10, 2005 18:59, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > Who owns the web server? Drew. > > > Who owns the mail server? Drew. > > > Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? > > > Drew. > > > > Just curious, what is so complex about the configuration of the mail > > server and why? > > The why : Drew wrote the procmail filters over the last ten years. Those > filters aren't unique to TLUG. I also suspect that there were others > involved in the creation of the mess, but have never bothered to ask if > this was a group effort or not. The what : More than 95% of the tlug > inbound messages are spam that are filtered out by the magic of procmail. I wonder if this is a Majordomo limitation or a limitation of the "legacy" process. I am a co-admin of a Mailman list that has probably about the same number of subscribers as this one and because it is set to subscriber only postings, spam just does not make it through that admittedly low threshold. We have MM throw away messages not coming from subscribers, which has dropped the administrative overhead by a huge margin, and has also made the anti-spam efforts essentially automatic and less error prone. Before we did that, posts from non subscribers would be held for approval by the list admins (e.g. me) and we found that 95% were indeed spam with the other 5% being posts from legitimate subscribers who happened to be posting from a different email address. It was all too easy, as was the case a couple of times, for a list admin to accidentally click on the "Approve" instead of "Reject" radio button for a given piece of spam and propagate the thing to everyone on the list. This would inevitably result in a flurry of messages complaining about that one piece of spam that managed to make it through out of the tens of thousands of legitimate messages, which raised the whole question of whether complaints about spam are actually worse than the spam, but I digress. We notified all the subscribers that we were changing the default list policy to throw away posts from non subscribers. We also told them that if they wanted to have the freedom to post from any number of addresses, they just had to subscribe all of the addresses they wanted to post from and set all but one to NOMAIL. This has worked marvelously for us. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 00:58:27 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 20:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Sun, 10 Jul 2005, William Park wrote: >>> ...a standard tactic of people trying to cover >>> something up is to exaggerate what questioners are asking for, so it can >>> be rejected as obviously ridiculous. >> >> But, GTATLUG hasn't done anything, and so there is nothing to report. >> The only expense that I've seen is related to the April trade show. >> This has been repeated so many time. What kind of report do you want? > > Where did I ask for a report? What people have mostly been asking for is > *information*, not documents. Some documents are needed, and should be accessible on the website. These are the Letters Patent (or other documents of incorporation), the By-Laws, and a list of the Board of Directors and officers of the corporation. No one should give anyone any membership fees until this is done, and we know exactly what the situation is. I'm all in favour of a legitimate structure for the GTALUG, but it must be done above board. The $20 membership fee is little more than a token amount, and I doubt that many will balk at paying it -- so long as we know what is going on. -- Chris F.A. Johnson ================================================================== Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach, 2005, Apress -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 01:23:15 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:23:15 -0400 Subject: Naked DSL providers in Toronto? In-Reply-To: <20050710161708.C24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> <42D17AAD.7020100@istop.com> <20050710161708.C24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b2050710182318c479b7@mail.gmail.com> > Actually it was the May timeframe. Nice answer! Thank goodness for Gmail. I found that thread, and it was inconclusive; nobody knew if you could get DSL without a phone number. It would seem that this thread is still relevant. Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 01:43:05 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:43:05 -0400 Subject: Open Office & PDFs In-Reply-To: <1121039529.27992.4.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1121039529.27992.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <200507102143.05666.marc@lijour.net> On July 10, 2005 19:52, Alan Cohen wrote: > With Open Office, I can create a plane-jane PDF file which is a > replicate of a document. How does one make those fancy PDFs with > clickable go-to links, panes, etc? There is an article about OpenOffice.org in the June edition of Linux Magazine. I remember to see something related with PDF... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 01:59:12 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:59:12 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <200507102029.02246.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <200507101844.01282.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <20050710185926.K24124@diamond.ss.org> <200507102029.02246.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <20050711015912.GA12694@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 08:29:01PM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > On July 10, 2005 18:59, billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > Who owns the web server? Drew. > > > > Who owns the mail server? Drew. > > > > Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? > > > > Drew. > > > > > > Just curious, what is so complex about the configuration of the mail > > > server and why? > > > > The why : Drew wrote the procmail filters over the last ten years. Those > > filters aren't unique to TLUG. I also suspect that there were others > > involved in the creation of the mess, but have never bothered to ask if > > this was a group effort or not. The what : More than 95% of the tlug > > inbound messages are spam that are filtered out by the magic of procmail. > > I wonder if this is a Majordomo limitation or a limitation of the "legacy" > process. > > I am a co-admin of a Mailman list that has probably about the same number of > subscribers as this one and because it is set to subscriber only postings, > spam just does not make it through that admittedly low threshold. We have MM > throw away messages not coming from subscribers, which has dropped the > administrative overhead by a huge margin, and has also made the anti-spam > efforts essentially automatic and less error prone. > > Before we did that, posts from non subscribers would be held for approval by > the list admins (e.g. me) and we found that 95% were indeed spam with the > other 5% being posts from legitimate subscribers who happened to be posting > from a different email address. It was all too easy, as was the case a couple > of times, for a list admin to accidentally click on the "Approve" instead of > "Reject" radio button for a given piece of spam and propagate the thing to > everyone on the list. This would inevitably result in a flurry of messages > complaining about that one piece of spam that managed to make it through out > of the tens of thousands of legitimate messages, which raised the whole > question of whether complaints about spam are actually worse than the spam, > but I digress. We notified all the subscribers that we were changing the > default list policy to throw away posts from non subscribers. We also told > them that if they wanted to have the freedom to post from any number of > addresses, they just had to subscribe all of the addresses they wanted to > post from and set all but one to NOMAIL. This has worked marvelously for us. The TPM list works like yours did originally - messages from unrecognized addresses go to the admin who discards the spam and passes on the real stuff (and perhaps notes alternate addresses as acceptable - I don't know). I've seen no spam on that list ever (over 10 years) - maybe Harvey is a bit more infallible in his approval process than you were. :-) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 01:48:02 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 21:48:02 -0400 Subject: Open Office & PDFs In-Reply-To: <1121039529.27992.4.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1121039529.27992.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <42D1CFD2.90707@sympatico.ca> Alan Cohen wrote: > With Open Office, I can create a plane-jane PDF file which is a > replicate of a document. How does one make those fancy PDFs with > clickable go-to links, panes, etc? You want the extendedPDF macro package: . It's a little involved to install, but there's a good manual with it. Panes and views are a function of the pdfmarks (control functions) in the document. I don't know if the extendedPDF manual explains these, but Sid Steward's book "PDF Hacks" (O'Reilly, 2004) does. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 02:43:49 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:43:49 -0400 Subject: Naked DSL providers in Toronto? In-Reply-To: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> References: <42D02CBD.3521.FA95EC@localhost> Message-ID: <1121049829.13400.7.camel@shieldaig.wehave.net> On Sat, 2005-09-07 at 19:59 -0400, Richard Hennick wrote: > A friend is looking for a provider of Naked DSL (i.e. without an existing > phone number) in TO, other than Bell itself. I know the topic has come > up; any recommendations from the list? With the demise of istop I switched to Tek Savvy. They offer Dry DSL (http://www.teksavvy.com/web/prices_Dry.htm) at $29.95/month (same as regular DSL). When I check availability it says "Dry Copper DSL appears to be available for your location for: $16.99/month in addition to the regular DSL price." ... I assume $16.99 is the cost of the naked "phone line". I've been with TekSavvy for less than 1 month (IIRC) and so far haven't encountered anything to not recommend them. They aren't in TO they are in Chatham but they do offer service in TO and they have toll-free tech support line. Fraser -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 02:53:32 2005 From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 22:53:32 -0400 Subject: Open Office & PDFs In-Reply-To: <1121039529.27992.4.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1121039529.27992.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <1121050412.23964.4.camel@lnx.pointclarknet> On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 19:52 -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > With Open Office, I can create a plane-jane PDF file which is a > replicate of a document. How does one make those fancy PDFs with > clickable go-to links, panes, etc? > Upgrade to a newer version. OOo 1.1.4 and 2.0 Beta do that already. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 03:01:13 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2005 23:01:13 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710021927.GB2866-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <20050710021927.GB2866@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 7/9/05, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Jul 08, 2005 at 11:52:29PM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > > I find it very hard to believe that incorporation was necessary just > > to find facilities. There are facilities available for no cost, you > > just have to find them. It just doesn't make any sense to me. There > > must be Linux-friendly businesses in the Toronto area that would love > > to donate a room once a month to hold a meeting. > > Come on, Paul. The only reason why NewTLUG meet there, is because of > you. Otherwise, IBM would be hosting LUGs in every city they have > office. That's my point. I am an individual, working for a company, that has meeting space accessible to it's employees. As long as I use the space under the company's guidelines, it is available for use by user groups. What company I work for is irrelevant. I'm sure that other NewTLUG or TLUG members also work for companies that may have space available for use. > At this point, Microsoft can sponser us. I'm all for it. Me too... that would make for some interesting meetings, I'm sure. ;-) pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 01:29:24 2005 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 01:29:24 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710171016.E24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710171016.E24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20050711012924.584fd376@mail.look.ca> >I would also place TLUG more of a meritocracy. If you sat and whined people ignored you, but if you picked up the ball (any ball) and ran (in any direction) than you were quickly invited into the inner circle where you stayed until you chose to leave. > >Bill I haven't noticed myself whining. I haven't heard anyone calling for volunteers to "pick up any balls". What can I do ? Jim McIntosh --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 11:01:18 2005 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:01:18 -0400 Subject: Card reader/writer In-Reply-To: <20050707195250.GT23503-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050707195250.GT23503@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, Jul 07, 2005 at 11:54:51AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Martin Duclos wrote: > > > HI All, > > I have just aquired a 3 track card reader/writer from magtek. I am > > trying to find sofware to read and write cards with the device. > > If and when you get it going, might you offer a small card writing service ? > We could use a few cards written to,here at the ol' linuxcaffe. Is that like a credit card/other magnetic card reader/writer? Lennart Sorensen Yes it is! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 11:24:53 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 07:24:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050711112453.61840.qmail@web88205.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Paul Mora wrote: > On 7/9/05, William Park > wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 08, 2005 at 11:52:29PM -0400, Paul > Mora wrote: > > > I find it very hard to believe that > incorporation was necessary just > > > to find facilities. There are facilities > available for no cost, you > > > just have to find them. It just doesn't make > any sense to me. There > > > must be Linux-friendly businesses in the Toronto > area that would love > > > to donate a room once a month to hold a meeting. > > > > Come on, Paul. The only reason why NeNewTLUGeet > there, is because of > > you. Otherwise, IBM would be hosting LULUGsn > every city they have > > office. > > That's my point. I am an individual, working for a > company, that has > meeting space accessible to it's employees. As long > as I use the > space under the company's guidelines, it is > available for use by user > groups. What company I work for is irrelevant. > > I'm sure that other NeNewTLUGr TLTLUGembers also > work for companies > that may have space available for use. Yes. Where I work has been happy to help when I have asked. Two NeNewTLUGeetings were held down at 169 Eastern Ave. back in 2002. Also, for the Linux World Canada show my boss was happy to lend TLTLUGooth furnishings. In other words, there are corporate / not-for-profit players who would be willing to help us if PROPERLY asked. > > At this point, Microsoft can spsponsers. I'm all > for it. > > Me too... that would make for some interesting > meetings, I'm sure. ;-) Me I would be happier if Microsoft supported us by giving everyone examples of their "Natural Keyboards" (which look ugly as @#$% but are very comfortable to type on) :-) . Colin McMcGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 13:14:43 2005 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:14:43 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710212426.GF6815-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710141442.A24124@diamond.ss.org> <20050710200310.GD6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710212426.GF6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <1121087683.4265.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> I'm involved in a number of 'volunteer' groups. The common thread is that a small number of people, usually persons who you would think are the least likely candidates to run things...they do all the work while all the 'important' peacocks strut around and complain but will never lift a finger to do anything. I'm often approached by companies wanting to give presentations or use our resources. When I ask for a measly $35.00 check as an annual donation I generally never hear from them again. I have expenses to pay but I happily pay them to ensure the organization follows the direction I want. RickT http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On Sun, 2005-07-10 at 17:24 -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > On Sun, Jul 10, 2005 at 04:55:34PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 7/10/05, John Macdonald wrote: > > > But this whole discussion is about the fact that TLUG has > > > not issued a charter to GTALUG to manage this group and is > > > asking to be conviced that there is value in your so doing. > > > TLUG has been getting along just fine without being managed. > > > > Sure, it has. > > > > TLUG *is* Drew Sullivan, more than anything else that you can formally look at. > > > > Who owns the web server? Drew. > > Who owns the mail server? Drew. > > Who controls the (rather complex) configuration of the mail server? Drew. > > > > I can't see convincing arguments that point at any other nexus. > > OK, let me see if I understand what you are syaing here. > > One person has provided all of the useful services for > a valuable and thriving group. Since this is just one > person, he is an autocrat. So it is imperative to create > a different organization under the control of a few of the > members of the original group to take over control of the > entire group. > > I don't agree. A volunteer group is always run on the backs of > a very small number of people, often one person. The issue is > not whether one person as the power to carry out autocratic > actions, but whether the actions they carry out generally > provide useful value for the member with none of the actions > being unacceptable. I haven't heard of any complaints about the > actions taken by Drew. The only objectionable action I heard of > is the idea of shutting down the tlug mailing list and requiring > people to acknowledge the new cabal to join a replacement. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 12:16:02 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 08:16:02 -0400 Subject: Open Office & PDFs In-Reply-To: <1121050412.23964.4.camel-5FJN+WHprwwPCmlma7Tmnl6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <1121039529.27992.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <1121050412.23964.4.camel@lnx.pointclarknet> Message-ID: <42D26302.8040500@sympatico.ca> J. Schaap wrote: > > Upgrade to a newer version. > OOo 1.1.4 and 2.0 Beta do that already. Really? 1.1.4 didn't do it for me, except on mailto: links. Anyway, enhancedPDF has some additional controls that 1.1.4 lacks, and you really need for producing decent PDF documents. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 13:39:45 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 09:39:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <1121087683.4265.8.camel-GVHZqC5MSyVSXSDylEipykEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org> References: <1121087683.4265.8.camel@spot1.localhost.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > ...I'm often approached by companies wanting > to give presentations or use our resources. When I ask for a measly > $35.00 check as an annual donation I generally never hear from them > again... You might consider asking for $200 instead. :-) The overhead of getting a cheque issued totally dominates the problem from their viewpoint, and it looks more worthwhile if it's for a larger amount. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 14:05:33 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:05:33 -0400 Subject: Horde3 on Debian? Message-ID: <20050711140533.GA7049@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I'm trying to set up a simple server with the horde3 framework on a Debian stable system, but something is amiss. Everything seemed to install fine - I asked for horde3 and imp4 and many things got installed to make that happen: apache, php4, mysql-client, etc... However, none of the automagic configuration seems to have happened, and so there is nothing at localhost/horde/, or any other sign that it is installed. Oh' there's some stuff in /etc, but none of it works yet, and I was hoping for some pointers. The installation how-tos I've found are for installing for source, and since everything is already installed that seems unnecessary. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 14:19:04 2005 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:19:04 -0400 Subject: Open Office & PDFs In-Reply-To: <42D26302.8040500-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42D26302.8040500@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Just curious if the enhanced pdf package allows you to cut and paste pages of a generic pdf (not necessarily open office), as in the case when you would want to combine two documents made with different software? Alex On Mon, 11 Jul 2005, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > J. Schaap wrote: > > > > Upgrade to a newer version. > > OOo 1.1.4 and 2.0 Beta do that already. > > Really? 1.1.4 didn't do it for me, except on mailto: links. Anyway, > enhancedPDF has some additional controls that 1.1.4 lacks, and you > really need for producing decent PDF documents. > > cheers, > Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 14:19:38 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:19:38 -0400 Subject: Performance issue under newest Debian Message-ID: <42D27FFA.2060301@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've been a little stumped by a performance problem. I just upgraded to the latest version of Debian running 2.6.x (3.1 Sarge?) from the previous version of Debian (also running 2.6.x). My program, written in Perl and using PostgreSQL, now takes nearly twice as long to run even though the code has not changed (or rather changed in a few small ways that shouldn't effect performance). I was wondering if anyone else has found perl and/or postgres running slower under the latest version of Debian. Any ideas what it could be or things I could check? Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 14:33:21 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 Jul 2005 10:33:21 -0400 Subject: not-for-profit membership fees In-Reply-To: <1120929940.26707.14.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <1120929940.26707.14.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: interlug-list writes: > Generally with non profit corporations it appears that the by laws must > specify how membership will be granted and withdrawn, but it does not > appear that either the provincial or federal legislation mandates forms > of membership fees." That was my understanding, too, when we set up CLUE. You have to define what a member _is_ but that was about it. -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 14:25:49 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 10:25:49 -0400 Subject: Installing on an external hard drive In-Reply-To: <200507100852.52287.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200507100322.47560.marc@lijour.net> <42D0F866.7020107@rogers.com> <200507100852.52287.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: Marc Lijour wrote: >>The first thing, is to determine if the computer can boot a USB hard >>drive. Not all can. > > > Ok. That is a new computer. Now I have already 2 or 3 usb devices connected to > the the computer and I wonder how they will be numbered? While you are installing to the usb hard drive, just remove the other devices for the duration of the install. http://simonf.com/usb/ should do the trick for any problems with booting from USB. You may have to build a custon initrd. Not sure how Mandriva does things. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 14:35:58 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 Jul 2005 10:35:58 -0400 Subject: CLUE and linux.ca In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050709113473027bce-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1120930187.26707.17.camel@holden.weait.net> <99a6c38f050709113473027bce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: psema4 writes: > > Is CLUE and/or linux.ca a not-for-profit? > > To my knowledge CLUE (is linux.ca) is nfp. That's correct. It's federally incorporated, BTW. If anyone wants to talk with the main people keeping it alive, there's an IRC channel at: Server: irc.freenode.net Channel: #clue And as a final plug, anyone that registers at linux.ca gets a free alias of their username-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org to their registered e-mail address. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 15:47:03 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 Jul 2005 11:47:03 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710021011.GA2866-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050706171405.GA2260@node1.opengeometry.net> <24983.129.33.49.252.1120672653.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: William Park writes: > Look, people... CLUE has cost. I don't see CLUE going around detailing > their fiscal balance at TLUG meeting. This is a bit of a red herring, isn't it? CLUE isn't claiming to represent or _be_ TLUG (or any other organization). CLUE also isn't asking for money from people for the services that it does provide. CLUE also has public mailing lists where anyone can ask anything and it gets answered. > GTALUG is not doing much now. But, we should be. So, what do we (as > group) want to do? What kind of "service" should we provide? Who is "our > community"? ... This was the question that I was trying to get answered as part of the incorporation. It's too bad that it wasn't answered back then. We may not be having this discussion now. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 16:00:08 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 Jul 2005 12:00:08 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? References: <42CC6FAD.5020300@sympatico.ca> <20050708122903.A17736@diamond.ss.org> <99a6c38f050708124434afee91@mail.gmail.com> <20050710021011.GA2866@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710161916.GA6815@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20050710180109.GA2069@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: William Park writes: > I'm told, we can't solicit money unless we're Inc. You were told this by whom? They are wrong. > Just like LPI/CLUE can't go looking for sponsors unless they're Inc. CLUE isn't looking for sponsors and LPI had sponsors before it incorporated. In fact, one of the founders of LPI had to keep the initial sponsorship money in a personal bank account until the incorporation was complete. LPI, at least, had a clear mandate for its creation and wasn't an evolution, usurpment, whatever of another organization. > Why they have problem with us doing the same thing as they are > doing... ahh, I get the picture. Who is this 'they' that you speak of? I don't see anyone from CLUE or LPI weighing in on this. Unless you mean me. And I haven't said anything about CLUE or LPI except that CLUE has a programme that it hopes to launch and that its incorporation has been made available for TLUG's use in the past. I'm representing myself as a member of TLUG. Could you share this picture of which you speak with the rest of us? Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 16:05:35 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 Jul 2005 12:05:35 -0400 Subject: TLUG's value to community ??? In-Reply-To: <20050710185343.J24124-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050710090838.GA3809@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050710185343.J24124@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org writes: > The problem is that this is no longer a informal cummunity. It is a formal > organization. You don't have to be a member of this formal organization to be > on this list or come to the meetings (because that was one of the mandates of > GTALUG), but you have to accept the fact that this organization is what runs > the mechanisms that allow this community to function. That is the mandate of > GTALUG. Bill/Herb, Does this mean that I should take down http://newtlug.linux.ca and the newtlug mailing list from my server? I notice that the meeting page hasn't been updated since January. Maybe Anita isn't doing the web mastering any longer? Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Jul 11 15:54:10 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 11 Jul 2005 11:54:10 -0400 Subject: GTK+2 + Bash Message-ID: <20050711155410.GA2349@node1.opengeometry.net> For your reading pleasure, this is a copy of what I posted to . I'm very excited to announce shell interface to GTK+2 (2.6.1) for Bash. It read XML syntax describing the widget layout, and returns user selection as shell variable or runs shell command as callback. It's designed for simple GUI dialog or layout, with the emphasis on getting the user data back into shell. For the moment, the shell variable and command are disabled. It just prints to stdout, instead. But, you can change it easily. Ref: http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#gtk Usage: gtk < file.xml gtk file.xml... For example, GTK+2 tutorial has 2 button 'helloworld2.c', http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/sec-anupgradedhelloworld.html http://www.gtk.org/tutorial/images/helloworld2.png You can now build the same thing with