Promoting Open Source in Schools

[Marc Lijour]

On Saturday 17 December 2005 17:35, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> Interesting thread.  I'll respond to several messages here.
>
> I'm cynical about this.  But progress is possible and only optimists
> can cause it to happen.  Bravo if you are an optimist.
>
> | From: "Marc Lijour" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> |
> |  To my knowledge the North
> | York board of education is better at listening and providing equipment.
>
> There is no longer a North York Board of Education.  It was
> amalgamated with other boards to create the Toronto District School
> Board.

Sorry for the confusion.
I meant York Region District School Board http://www.yrdsb.edu.on.ca/
Peel and Dufferin-Peel have also good word-of-mouth.

> | From: "Marc Lijour" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> |
> | Ballmer was in Ottawa last week, the government is giving $4.5 million
> | dollars to the schools over the next years...
> | My board is about to switch from win98 to winXP and to equip all stations
> | with  MS Office (currently Corel and StarOffice).
>
> Microsoft has had very serious discounts for educational purposes in
> schools (not for administration in schools, I think).  Maybe this
> isn't costing us taxpayers as much as we fear.
>
> The hardware cost is worth considering.  But Linux (and
> StarOffice/OpenOffice especially) require quite a bit of hardware
> unless you make some hard choices.
>
> In my experience, school procurements are nuts.  Usually a case of
> feast or famine.  They overbuy and then assume the stuff will last,
> say, 10 years.  They buy unneeded stuff, stuff that sits unused.  Or
> they don't buy stuff that is desperately needed.  Often what they are
> short of is expertise (but isn't everyone other than TLUG members?).
>
> | From: Evan Leibovitch <evan-ieNeDk6JonTYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org>
> |
> | At a UN conference I attended earlier this year in Geneva, the biggest
> | detractors of FOSS amazingly came from some of the poorest countries,
> | whose representatives might as well have been reading a prepared script
> | singing the praises of proprietary vendors. The most vocal, I recall,
> | was Zimbabwe.
>
> Being on the other side of an argument with Zimbabwe's
> government-for-life is no dishonour.
>
> | From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> |
> |  1.  If Linux *were* a "job killer" in the IT department at the schools,
> | this ought to be No Bad Thing, as having an IT department is peripheral
> | to Providing Educational Services.
>
> Exactly.  The only important way of saving resources is to cut jobs.
> Either in the organization, or (recursively) in the suppliers.
>
> Okay, I admit that you can save money by paying people less.  But then
> they will spend less, supporting fewer jobs somewhere else.
>
> | From: Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
> |
> | On 12/17/05, Zbigniew Koziol <zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> | > Wouldnt it be less expensive to use just one powerfull machine for
> | > entire school/organization and connect to it by using 100$ terminal
> | > machines only, and run in that way any X applications?
> |
> | That has the downside of requiring 100% uptime of the network and
> | chews quite a bit of bandwidth.  Further, it means you need a rack of
> | those "really powerful" machines in the back room.
>
> Schools are often guilty of underprovisioning.  I remember tales of
> schools with Icons (the "Bionic Beaver", the Ontario-designed and
> -built school computer from the mid-eighties).  They used a file
> server and, due to underprovisioning, might take up to half an hour to
> boot a classroom of systems.
>
> Most kids came away hating the Icon.  In theory, it was great.  I knew
> people from most of the software providers, and they were righteous.
> I blame underprovisioning.  Along with a lack of sexiness (no hardcore
> games, no TV ads, no glossy fan magazines).
>
> Perhaps one of the Icon's problem was the top-down nature of its
> design and deployment.  This added, say, a year or two delay that made
> the hardware seem pokey.
>
> Another problem: nobody was quite sure what computers were for in the
> classroom.  Teaching programming?  Word processing?  Spreadsheets?
> Presentations?  Courseware?  Have they figured this out now?
>
> Anyway, back to the original point: the experience with thin clients in
> schools is likely to be awful if the powers-that-be cannot be
> prevented from underprovisioning.
>
> Another problem: a thin client system may prevent individual student
> creativity with computers.  Creativity may not be distinguishable from
> Bad Behaviour.  Do you remember what it was like being a high school
> student?  Control by the system may actually work against education.
>
> | At least some portion of the savings made on the "cheap terminals"
> | will have to be consumed in beefing up the server and the network.
>
> Yes.  But, at least from a systems perspective, there are lots of
> benefits: centralizing control.
>
> | From: Yanni Chiu <yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> |
> | Igor Denisov wrote:
> | > > BTW, there is a Toronto School Board trustee that has
> | > > some interest in the Squeak/Etoys work. I can dig up
> | > > his/her name if anyone is interested.
> |
> | Here's a link and a quote.
> |     http://squeakland.org/pipermail/squeakland/2004-January/001936.html
> | ====
> |
> |     [Squeakland] Squeaker News.... Squeak in Spain!
> |
> |     Mankovsky, Sheine sheine.mankovsky2 at tdsb.on.ca
>
> Her bio page mentions Squeak.
> 	http://www.tdsb.on.ca/boardroom/trustees/trustee.asp?w=5&p=103
>
> Interesting.  I've talked with her (and her daughter) a number of
> years ago.  She was the trustee for my son's high school (to give you
> an idea of the time frame: my son is now in graduate school).
>
> I'm no longer involved with the school system.  My impression is that
> since amalgamation the trustees are mostly figureheads.  The McGuinty
> government has been kinder and gentler, but I doubt that the trustees
> have regained much ground:
>
> - Harris made the trustee role part time (in Metro Toronto board the
>   trustee job had been essentially full-time)
>
> - Much more was mandated by Queen's Park
>
> - amalgamation and downsizing broke the existing relationships.
>
> - the number of students and schools per trustee was increased by an
>   order of magnitude.  Much harder for a trustee to know what was
>   going on in their schools.
>
> - downsizing eliminated half of the supperintendants.  This appeared
>   to break the channels between the trustees and the classroom
> --
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