Libranet 3.0 out

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 05:50:19PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote:
> I think this will sum it up quite well. I am Pro-Debian AND Pro-Gentoo. Each 
> has it's time and place. Gentoo is definitely my preferred server environment 
> and Debian ( unstable ) for desktop use. For server use there are numerous 
> specialty programs that are not available for debian. 
> 
> Fine. Install from source you say. No problem. 

No I don't ever say that.  I say make a .deb if you want to install a
program.  Then place it in your personaly archive of packages for easy
install and update for all yoru systems.

> But wait..  
> 
> Deploy this kind of server to your clients / friends. Try and keep on top of 
> security updates. Mailing lists, visiting the software developers web site. A 
> real pain and a potential security nightmare if you do not keep on top of it. 
> Try selling / Deploying 30 servers, each customized for that particular 
> purpose with Debian and custom packages. Either you spend you days looking 
> for updates "just to be safe" or find a better method.

That's why I will build custom debian packages in my own archive and
have all the machiens I maintain use packages from there.  I have run 30
servers with Debian, and oh man was that ever a joy (I would hate to
have used anything else for it).

> Enter Gentoo - The better method
> 
> Benefits of Gentoo:
> 
> -Everything is compiled from source

Which violates my first principle of using computers: Don't ever do
something more than once when it can be avoided.  That means write
scripts, and let upstream compile it for you when possible.  If upstream
compiles it once everyone gets the result saving time anc cpu cycles and
work for everyone.  Overall net saving for the free time of computer
users on the planet.  Might as well use that spare time doing something
productive like improving programs instead of doing the same old compile
everyone else has already done.

> -You're in control

Hmm, never felt not in control with Debian.

> -Powerful ports-based package manager

apt-get/dpkg is quite powerful.

> -Easy package format

I find .deb's very easy.

> -Centralized internet repository of packages

Have you seen how many mirrors debian has?

> -Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts

Now that one you get bonus points for.  Debian uses sysv (which is far
superior to the crap in BSD and any version of slackware I have ever
used) but certainly not the best system one could have.

> Everything is compiled from source

Which I consider a major flaw as it violates first principle above.

> -Optimized for your hardware

Oh sure, big deal.  Show me a measureable improvement in running with
compiler optimizations for a specific cpu other than the kernel.  i486
is already quite fast on most systems (and glibc doesn't permit 386
optimization anymore).  pgcc died out for a reason.  It made no real
diffence and broke a lot of code since the cpu optimizer was very buggy.

> -Packages are built from the original sources

And debian uses original source + patches to make packages install
consistently.

> -Fast package updates when new version appear

Debian unstable is usually rather fast, but not always.  That's a
problem of the maintainer, not the distribution.  If no one adds the new
version to gentoo, how do you get it (besides doing it manually, and
then you aren't really taking much advantage of the distribution
anyway).

> -Can be turned into binary packages during or after package installation
> 
> You're in control
> 
> -Minimal installation

Debian base install is pretty small.

> -No services are activated by default

Seems true of any well designed distribution.

> -No configuration is done automatically

Sounds like a flaw rather than a feature.  Debian asks me questions
about how to configure thigns, and provides sane defaults that I can
then change if I want to.  I like things to be close to working when I
install them.

> -Default configurations are available but have to be  performed explicitly
> -Your configurations are protected and will never be overwritten

Debian asks if you want to replace a config file.  Default is to not
replace.

> Powerful package manager
> 
> -Packages are first installed in a staging directory, are only then merged
>  into your live system
> -Performs installations in a protecting sandbox
> -Safe library updates on a running system
> -Resolves dependencies automatically
> -Keeps you informed about new updates
> -Updates your repository from the internet
> -Allows you to safely remove outdated packages
> -Can create and use binary packages
> -Low-level (developer) tool : ebuild
> -High-level (user) tool : emerge
> -System-wide configuration of your usage preferences (use-flags)
> -Virtual packages

Overall I see nothing apt-get doesn't seem to handle.

> Easy package format
> 
> -Closely mimics the bash commands you'd execute to install manually
> -Clearly separated installation phases : unpack, compile, install, merge
> -Pre and post actions for each installation phase
> -Additional configuration is done through the definition of variables :
>  description, homepage, download url, dependencies, binary compatibility

Building from source is for the exception not the rule.  Sounds like the
same things I would have to do in a debian/rules file to build a .deb

> Centralized internet repository of packages
> 
> -Immediate access to new versions

As soon as someone adds the new version to the repository.

> -Intuitive synchronization of your local package tree
> -Direct access by developers to the same repository
> 
> Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts
> 
> -Not numbered
> -Scripts use or need each-other
> -Stopping a service auto-stops all services that need it
> -Services can be paused (stop function in other distributions)
> -Services can't be started or stopped multiple times
> -Easy tool to manage services

This so far is the only feature that sounds like a great one.

Lennart Sorensen
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