From pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 00:02:48 2005 From: pkay-Wu5PbJhdqlKw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Phil Kay) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:02:48 -0500 Subject: Thin Client and Sound In-Reply-To: References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1112236120.7732.3.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <20050331152404.GA2316@node1.opengeometry.net> <1112307275.5518.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> Message-ID: <1112313768.5611.12.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> On Thu, 2005-03-31 at 17:22 -0500, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Phil Kay wrote: > > > I know this is getting off-topic, but I work for a small private > > University and we're looking at replacing our centralized database app. > > Most apps now that fill the areas we are examining run on MSSQL. I > > haven't found any open-source equivalent that I would consider mature > > enough for our purposes. > > You don't consider MySQL or Postgres mature enough for your purposes? > > What are your concerns? > > Rob > Sorry, I should have been more specific. Its not the db. We use MySQL for all of our web serving. We replaced MSSQL and IIS about 5 years ago with LAMP and haven't looked back since. What I meant was that the applications that are currently under development to fulfill our needs are almost all being developed for MSSQL. Our current system works great and has for years on OpenVMS and a proprietary db, but the interface is not intuitive. We have a hard time keeping workers long enough to adequately train them. So an intuitive interface is a distinct need. I have looked at several apps that look promising that will do what we want (the main areas are Financial, Registration, Financial Aid, and Recruitment), but they would need a lot of development time to work for us. There are lots of companies out there actively developing these types of applications, but like I said, almost all built on MSSQL. If anyone knows of anything that might work, let me know. -- Phil Kay -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 00:26:14 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 19:26:14 -0500 Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <424C9526.5070208@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote: > >>Now for the goodies, if you register in advance you can get in to the trade >>show for free just go to : https://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/ > > > Except that it insists on a credit-card number even if you're only signing > up for the trade show. So to hell with them. I was able to sign up, without a credit card. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 02:47:10 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 21:47:10 -0500 Subject: why is this being done with .NET technology? In-Reply-To: <20050331182929.GS23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87@outbox.allstream.net> <20050331182929.GS23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:29:29 -0500, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Mar 30, 2005 at 10:25:13PM -0500, bob wrote: > > Judging from the job ads on this site they are heavily committed to .NET. > > > > Maybe too late now but we should be lobbying for this to be based on open > > formats and standards. > > Like java 10 years ago, it's Big Buzz Words, that managers like to hear, > so they declare 'make this work using that new .net stuff' since > obviously that new stuff must be better and save lots of time, and it > should be easy to hire someone with 2 decades of expereince even if it > was only announced last year. :) Note that .NET was specifically designed to be an answer for those that (rightly) have some discomfort about deploying systems in Java. There's certainly a set of FUD that Microsoft is game to sell, but there are some "issues" with Java. Multiple implementations that don't interoperate that much more perfectly than C apps; varying sets of libraries from varying vendors; different subsets that get used in different places. None of this is necessarily disastrous; it doesn't prevent people from successfully using Java. But there is a perception of risk due to the proliferation of Java implementations involving companies with differing interests. .NET represents the natural progression for those moving from elder versions of VB, and was designed to be comforting to those folk. It's billed (with some legitimacy) as an alternative to Java. I'd nearly bet lunch that this organization used to use VB to build front ends for applications, and if that be the case, .NET is indeed a natural jump. In a way, I don't see Java being _compellingly_ preferable, certainly not to people that have long had "MSFT committments," and that are comfortable with that. Microsoft may have well and nefarious reasons to want to promote .NET; to choose it is NOT an action of blind irrationality. And of course it ought to allow porting to .MONO ;-) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 04:18:38 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 23:18:38 -0500 Subject: Thin Client and Sound In-Reply-To: <1112313768.5611.12.camel-PDEj0QjQnW7cU4epuXD4MiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1112236120.7732.3.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <20050331152404.GA2316@node1.opengeometry.net> <1112307275.5518.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <1112313768.5611.12.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> Message-ID: <20050401041838.GA2113@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Mar 31, 2005 at 07:02:48PM -0500, Phil Kay wrote: > Sorry, I should have been more specific. Its not the db. We use MySQL > for all of our web serving. We replaced MSSQL and IIS about 5 years ago > with LAMP and haven't looked back since. > > What I meant was that the applications that are currently under > development to fulfill our needs are almost all being developed for > MSSQL. Our current system works great and has for years on OpenVMS and > a proprietary db, but the interface is not intuitive. We have a hard > time keeping workers long enough to adequately train them. So an > intuitive interface is a distinct need. I have looked at several apps > that look promising that will do what we want (the main areas are > Financial, Registration, Financial Aid, and Recruitment), but they would > need a lot of development time to work for us. > > There are lots of companies out there actively developing these types of > applications, but like I said, almost all built on MSSQL. If anyone > knows of anything that might work, let me know. There is no way around then. You have to cough up some money, either for pre-packaged stuffs or for programmers' meal. If your data structure can be implemented (at the back-end) with shell scripts and text files, then let me know. :-) Training and retention would no problem, provided your staffs know about file system. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 13:33:01 2005 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkm4kRHVhTciCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 08:33:01 -0500 Subject: TLUG at Linux World Canada In-Reply-To: <424C9526.5070208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <424C9526.5070208@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1112362382.6727.0.camel@spot1.localhost.com> We have free passes you can print from .pdf at: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca RickT On Thu, 2005-03-31 at 19:26 -0500, James Knott wrote: > Henry Spencer wrote: > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > >>Now for the goodies, if you register in advance you can get in to the trade > >>show for free just go to : https://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/ > > > > > > Except that it insists on a credit-card number even if you're only signing > > up for the trade show. So to hell with them. > > I was able to sign up, without a credit card. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 16:20:51 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 11:20:51 -0500 Subject: Volunteering at Linux World trade show Message-ID: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> If you want to man the TLUG booth at Linux World trade show on Apr 18 (9am-6pm) -- setup Apr 19 (11am-6pm) -- 11am-3pm, 2-6pm Apr 20 (11am-5pm) -- 11am-3pm, 2-5pm, closing then let me know when you can volunteer. I would like two 4 hour shift with 1 hour overlapping. The first day is for setting the tables and equipments, and timetable would be determined by whoever drives the van. :-) However, we need more people on the last day, because we have to pack up everything that day, presumably by 6pm. So, fill in below... Apr 18 Apr 19 Apr 20 (9-6) (11-3) (2-6) (11-3) (2-6) Name xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 16:41:25 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 11:41:25 -0500 Subject: Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050401162051.GA2068-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <424D79B5.7080902@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: >If you want to man the TLUG booth at Linux World trade show on > Apr 18 (9am-6pm) -- setup > Apr 19 (11am-6pm) -- 11am-3pm, 2-6pm > Apr 20 (11am-5pm) -- 11am-3pm, 2-5pm, closing >then let me know when you can volunteer. > sounds like fun, but I may be out of town. I'll confirm my travel dates and try again, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 19:38:42 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 14:38:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: cpuspeed In-Reply-To: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Hi all, I know there were a few things posted recently on this subject, but does anyone know how this thing works? I use FC3 on a ThinkPad with a P-III mobile, the DRIVER entry in /etc/cpuspeed.conf shows "powernow-k7" but changing the value does not seem to make any difference. The acpi functions works, we can see the state of the AC power from /proc/acpi, but cpuinfo always shows the processor running at half its speed. Any help will be appreciated! Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 21:02:49 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 16:02:49 -0500 Subject: cpuspeed In-Reply-To: <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 02:38:42PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote: > I know there were a few things posted recently on this subject, but > does anyone know how this thing works? I use FC3 on a ThinkPad with > a P-III mobile, the DRIVER entry in /etc/cpuspeed.conf shows > "powernow-k7" but changing the value does not seem to make any difference. > > The acpi functions works, we can see the state of the AC power from > /proc/acpi, but cpuinfo always shows the processor running at half its > speed. > > Any help will be appreciated! Well powernow is of course AMD's system. I guess you want something that supports SpeedStep, which I think recent kernels have options for supporting. cpudyn might be helpful: Package: cpudyn Priority: optional Section: admin Installed-Size: 120 Maintainer: Celso Gonz\uffff\ufffflez Architecture: i386 Version: 1.0-2 Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4) Conflicts: cpufreqd, powernowd Filename: pool/main/c/cpudyn/cpudyn_1.0-2_i386.deb Size: 23860 MD5sum: f00acb7da060f486024496fff79d800a Description: CPU dynamic frequency control for processors with scaling cpudyn controls the speed in Intel SpeedStep, Pentium 4 Mobile, AMD Powernow, PowerPC, Crusoe LongRun machines with the cpufreq compiled in the kernel, or with machines that support ACPI throtling. It saves battery, lowers temperature, and can put the computer disks in standby mode if a given period has passed without any I/O operation. It works well even with journaled file systems such as Ext3, XFS, or ReiserFS. Even supports the new interface for kernels 2.6.x or perhaps cpufreqd: Package: cpufreqd Priority: optional Section: admin Installed-Size: 208 Maintainer: Mattia Dongili (ma.d.) Architecture: i386 Version: 1.2.2-1 Depends: debconf, libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4) Filename: pool/main/c/cpufreqd/cpufreqd_1.2.2-1_i386.deb Size: 35736 MD5sum: bcaa7b4f21b81d2c4a8c4ca2eea4b372 Description: A speedstep applet clone cpufreqd is meant to be a replacement of the speedstep applet you can find on some other OS, it monitors CPU usage, battery level, AC state and running programs and adjusts the frequency governor according to a set of rules specified in the config file. . You need a CPUFreq driver and either APM, ACPI (a recent version) or PMU enabled in your kernel in order for this daemon to work. You can find a functional ACPI in 2.4.22-pre1 or later or as patches at http://sf.net/projects/acpi while CPUFreq is available in 2.6 kernels or as patch at ftp://ftp.poupinou.org/cpufreq/. . Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cpufreqd Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 1 22:50:41 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 01 Apr 2005 17:50:41 -0500 Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers In-Reply-To: <200503311148.28234.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <424AE64A.4000807@sympatico.ca> <200503311148.28234.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <424DD041.3030409@sympatico.ca> Chris Gow wrote: >On March 30, 2005 12:47 pm, David J Patrick wrote: > > >>the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for the >>last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming mail >>arriving late. >> >Have you complained to Bell about this? A friend of mine is having similar >problems receiving email. He called and complained and got a month's free >service. > > OH yeah ! Howling and growling ! Grumble MSN this, and Passport that ! I leaned on the linux horn with a heavy hand. For your amusement, I've copied the latest here. ========= I have been a loyal Bell Canada customer for over 20 years and used Sympatico for the past 5, or so. Several years ago I switched to linux (after huge frustrations with Windows) and with the help of the linux community, have been a happy sympatico customer. I'm not happy any more ! The recent merger with Microsoft has broken several things for us (linux users) and I suspect this is no accident. In particular, the move to the MSN mail servers has resulted in truly poor mail handling. If I thought that this was temporary I would just live with it, but as you phase out the old smtp servers you are forcing all customers to "upgrade" to Passport authentication. As you may or may not know, Microsoft will not allow access to Passport sign-up with linux. This is a big problem. so what do I want ? 1) I am paying for mail handling that I am not receiving. I would like a rebate for the week+ (and ongoing). 2) wake up and smell the coffee ! linux is here. It is stable, secure, easy to use and free. People who try it, stay with it, and this year you will see linux adoption on an unprecedented scale. Your "What we don't support" webpage lists linux among "Out-of-date and server-based operating systems". This is grossly inaccurate; I run no servers and my entire system is upgraded daily. No-one can tell you what to use internally, be wall-to-wall Microsoft, if you like (and if you don't mind the down-time) but to be a world-class ISP you should recognize that your pals from Redmond are not the only game in town. Failing to do so will result in loss of customer base and big bad press. 3) If your new policy is decidedly anti-linux (instead of the usual apathy) you should just be honest, and send a notice to your many linux-using customers alerting them that their chosen platform is "no longer welcome" giving them a chance to secure a more compatible ISP. I have been promised a response, in previous exchanges with Sympatico tech support, but my Inbox remains empty (see: technical difficulties ?) I expect a coherent response to this one. Sympatico customer, for now, David Patrick ==== Still no decent response, though. I think my days as a Sympatico customer are numbered. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 2 01:34:25 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:34:25 -0500 Subject: cpuspeed References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <001201c53724$2cc9a510$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> ---- Original Message ----- From: "Lennart Sorensen" To: Sent: Friday, 01 April, 2005 16:02 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: cpuspeed > On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 02:38:42PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote: > > I know there were a few things posted recently on this subject, but > > does anyone know how this thing works? I use FC3 on a ThinkPad with > > a P-III mobile, the DRIVER entry in /etc/cpuspeed.conf shows > > "powernow-k7" but changing the value does not seem to make any difference. > > > > The acpi functions works, we can see the state of the AC power from > > /proc/acpi, but cpuinfo always shows the processor running at half its > > speed. > > > > Any help will be appreciated! > > Well powernow is of course AMD's system. I guess you want something > that supports SpeedStep, which I think recent kernels have options for > supporting. cpudyn might be helpful: > > Package: cpudyn > Priority: optional > Section: admin > Installed-Size: 120 > Maintainer: Celso Gonz\uffff\ufffflez > Architecture: i386 > Version: 1.0-2 > Depends: libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4) > Conflicts: cpufreqd, powernowd > Filename: pool/main/c/cpudyn/cpudyn_1.0-2_i386.deb > Size: 23860 > MD5sum: f00acb7da060f486024496fff79d800a > Description: CPU dynamic frequency control for processors with scaling > cpudyn controls the speed in Intel SpeedStep, Pentium 4 Mobile, > AMD Powernow, PowerPC, Crusoe LongRun machines with the cpufreq compiled > in the kernel, or with machines that support ACPI throtling. It saves > battery, lowers temperature, and can put the computer disks in standby > mode if a given period has passed without any I/O operation. It works > well even with journaled file systems such as Ext3, XFS, or ReiserFS. > Even supports the new interface for kernels 2.6.x > > or perhaps cpufreqd: > > Package: cpufreqd > Priority: optional > Section: admin > Installed-Size: 208 > Maintainer: Mattia Dongili (ma.d.) > Architecture: i386 > Version: 1.2.2-1 > Depends: debconf, libc6 (>= 2.3.2.ds1-4) > Filename: pool/main/c/cpufreqd/cpufreqd_1.2.2-1_i386.deb > Size: 35736 > MD5sum: bcaa7b4f21b81d2c4a8c4ca2eea4b372 > Description: A speedstep applet clone > cpufreqd is meant to be a replacement of the speedstep applet you > can find on some other OS, it monitors CPU usage, battery level, AC > state and running programs and adjusts the frequency governor according > to a set of rules specified in the config file. > . > You need a CPUFreq driver and either APM, ACPI (a recent version) or PMU > enabled in your kernel in order for this daemon to work. > You can find a functional ACPI in 2.4.22-pre1 or later or as patches at > http://sf.net/projects/acpi while CPUFreq is available in 2.6 kernels or as > patch at ftp://ftp.poupinou.org/cpufreq/. > . > Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cpufreqd > > Lennart Sorensen Thanks, lots of useful data! One thing with my machine is that /proc/acpi/thermal/thermal_zone/THR1/temperature returns a value with a "C" appended, for example "74 C" and cpuspeed expects an integer... I will try the packages you mention, thanks! Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 2 01:44:40 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 20:44:40 -0500 Subject: cpuspeed References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennart Sorensen" To: Sent: Friday, 01 April, 2005 16:02 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: cpuspeed > > > . > Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cpufreqd > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > I don't know if this is an April fool's day joke, but this URL leads directly to... Microsoft! Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 2 22:05:11 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 17:05:11 -0500 Subject: cpuspeed In-Reply-To: <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 08:44:40PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lennart Sorensen" > To: > Sent: Friday, 01 April, 2005 16:02 > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: cpuspeed > > > > > > . > > Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cpufreqd > > > > Lennart Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > I don't know if this is an April fool's day joke, but this URL leads > directly to... Microsoft! I sure hope that was a joke. I just pasted the Debian package description as it was. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 2 22:30:51 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 02 Apr 2005 17:30:51 -0500 Subject: cpuspeed In-Reply-To: <20050402220511.GU23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <424F1D1B.9010605@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 01, 2005 at 08:44:40PM -0500, Francois Ouellette wrote: > >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Lennart Sorensen" >>To: >>Sent: Friday, 01 April, 2005 16:02 >>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: cpuspeed >> >>> >>> . >>> Homepage: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cpufreqd >>> >>>Lennart Sorensen >>>-- >>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >>> >> >>I don't know if this is an April fool's day joke, but this URL leads >>directly to... Microsoft! > > > I sure hope that was a joke. I just pasted the Debian package > description as it was. It works fine for me. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 3 14:25:37 2005 From: pdirezze-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 10:25:37 -0400 Subject: Thin Client and Sound In-Reply-To: <1112307275.5518.4.camel-PDEj0QjQnW7cU4epuXD4MiwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1112224146.5926.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <1112226366.5926.10.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <200503310001.06137.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200503310216.50780.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <1112236120.7732.3.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> <20050331152404.GA2316@node1.opengeometry.net> <1112307275.5518.4.camel@pc-00010.thekays.ca> Message-ID: <424FFCE1.5090304@rogers.com> Phil Kay wrote: >I know this is getting off-topic, but I work for a small private >University and we're looking at replacing our centralized database app. >Most apps now that fill the areas we are examining run on MSSQL. I >haven't found any open-source equivalent that I would consider mature >enough for our purposes. > > > Four database options are worth checking out: MySQL - http://www.mysql.com/ PostgrSQL - http://www.postgresql.org/ Firebird - http://firebird.sourceforge.net/ Ingres - http://www3.ca.com/Solutions/Product.asp?ID=1013 In addition, version 2 of Open Office (in beta now) has it's own database a la MS Access and it reads Access mdb files, though not perfectly. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 3 17:19:53 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 13:19:53 -0400 Subject: Supressing password request from 'sudo' Message-ID: <425025B9.9040002@alteeve.com> Hi all, Minor question; How can I surpress the password prompt from 'sudo' entirely? I have a perl program that calls 'sudo'. I first call it with '|sudo -S -v -p %' (using the pipe at the start to let me pass the password). Once the timestamp is set I close that instance of 'sudo' and then use it to execute whatever priviledged program I need: 'sudo 2>&1 |'. The problem is that when '|sudo...' is called it's output, a password prompt, gets printed to the screen which I can see both when I run my script from the command line or via a web browser. I added the '-p %' to reduce the prompt to a simple '%\n' which at least doesn't show obviously what's being asked. Ideally though I would like 'sudo' to not prompt for the password at all. Thanks all! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 3 17:30:00 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 13:30:00 -0400 Subject: Supressing password request from 'sudo' In-Reply-To: <425025B9.9040002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425025B9.9040002@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050403173000.GA31337@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> To use sudo without requiring a password, but something like the following in your sudoers file (with visudo, usually): username ALL=NOPASSWD:/path/to/command That works for me. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 3 18:02:44 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 14:02:44 -0400 Subject: Supressing password request from 'sudo' In-Reply-To: <20050403173000.GA31337-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <425025B9.9040002@alteeve.com> <20050403173000.GA31337@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <42502FC4.90908@alteeve.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > To use sudo without requiring a password, but something like the > following in your sudoers file (with visudo, usually): > > username ALL=NOPASSWD:/path/to/command > > That works for me. In the early days of my program that is exactly what I did. I decided though that I wanted to pass the password (from a protected file) because I hope that the program will be used by others. For that reason I thought that asking people to add 'NOPASSWD' was too insecure. Thanks though, it was kind of you to reply! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 3 20:45:22 2005 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 16:45:22 -0400 Subject: Perl question Message-ID: Hi all, I know this is a little off topic but I could sure use some help with this. I'm trying to take mail messages and parse them one by one form different mailboxes. The mail message are all individual message in /home/user/Maildir. I want to load the message and then extract all the attachments from it to drop them to a directory. What I have to far is below. I always get an number of attachments of zero while there are in fact multiple attachments in each message. Any ideas would be greatly appreceated. Martin #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; use Mail::Audit qw(Attach); my($srcDir) = "./src"; my($destDir) = "./dest"; my($trash) = "./trash"; #sanity check and create if not exist die "Source directory isn't valid!" unless -d $srcDir; mkdir( $destDir, 0755 ) unless( -d $destDir ); mkdir( $trash, 0755 ) unless( -d $trash ); my(@allFiles) = <$srcDir/*>; foreach( @allFiles ){ if( -f $_){ print "Processing file $_\n"; open FILE, $_ or die "Can't open file $_. $!."; my(@fileContents); while(){ chomp; push( @fileContents, $_ ); } foreach( @fileContents ){ print $_; } my($mail) = Mail::Audit->new(data=>\@fileContents); print $mail->num_attachments . "\n"; my($attachments) = $mail->attachments; foreach( @$attachments){ $_->save($destDir); } } } -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 3 20:54:59 2005 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 16:54:59 -0400 Subject: vPostmaster In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050403165459.2ca217a4.rob@cheapersafer.com> I've been looking at this new anti-spam/malware etc. package from tummy.com called vPostmaster http://www.tummy.com/journals/entries/jafo_20050209_231056 and it looks pretty interesting. Anyone had any exposure? Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com Land: (416) 536-0176 | Cell: (416)407-1391 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 3 21:07:21 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 17:07:21 -0400 Subject: Perl question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42505B09.4080002@istop.com> I never used Mail::Audit. It is possible that its broken or your attachements are not encoded according to certain strict rules. I would do such things without using modules, just by programming everything from sratch. Just an idea. Most likely wrong. zb. Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi all, > > I know this is a little off topic but I could sure use some help with > this. I'm trying to take mail messages and parse them one by one form > different mailboxes. The mail message are all individual message in > /home/user/Maildir. I want to load the message and then extract all the > attachments from it to drop them to a directory. What I have to far is > below. I always get an number of attachments of zero while there are in > fact multiple attachments in each message. Any ideas would be greatly > appreceated. > > Martin > > #!/usr/bin/perl > use strict; > use Mail::Audit qw(Attach); > > my($srcDir) = "./src"; > my($destDir) = "./dest"; > my($trash) = "./trash"; > > #sanity check and create if not exist > die "Source directory isn't valid!" unless -d $srcDir; > mkdir( $destDir, 0755 ) unless( -d $destDir ); > mkdir( $trash, 0755 ) unless( -d $trash ); > > my(@allFiles) = <$srcDir/*>; > > foreach( @allFiles ){ > if( -f $_){ > print "Processing file $_\n"; > open FILE, $_ or die "Can't open file $_. $!."; > my(@fileContents); > while(){ > chomp; > push( @fileContents, $_ ); > } > foreach( @fileContents ){ > print $_; > } > my($mail) = Mail::Audit->new(data=>\@fileContents); > print $mail->num_attachments . "\n"; > my($attachments) = $mail->attachments; > foreach( @$attachments){ > $_->save($destDir); > } > } > } > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 00:07:11 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 3 Apr 2005 19:07:11 -0500 Subject: Supressing password request from 'sudo' In-Reply-To: <42502FC4.90908-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425025B9.9040002@alteeve.com> <20050403173000.GA31337@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <42502FC4.90908@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Apr 3, 2005 1:02 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > William O'Higgins wrote: > > To use sudo without requiring a password, but something like the > > following in your sudoers file (with visudo, usually): > > > > username ALL=NOPASSWD:/path/to/command > > > > That works for me. > > In the early days of my program that is exactly what I did. I decided > though that I wanted to pass the password (from a protected file) > because I hope that the program will be used by others. For that reason > I thought that asking people to add 'NOPASSWD' was too insecure. I don't see the advantage to using the password, here. If you use the password, that means that for the "other" to be able to run the program, they have to have YOUR password, and so have the ability to masquerade as you and to do ANYTHING you can do, as you. I'd be MUCH more comfortable with granting the other users access to the particular command "sans password;" while there can be arguments made to the effect that that's not 'totally secure,' it seems to me that giving out YOUR password represents a ludicrous breach of security. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 00:47:02 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sun, 03 Apr 2005 20:47:02 -0400 Subject: Supressing password request from 'sudo' In-Reply-To: References: <425025B9.9040002@alteeve.com> <20050403173000.GA31337@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <42502FC4.90908@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42508E86.6040801@alteeve.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > I don't see the advantage to using the password, here. > > If you use the password, that means that for the "other" to be able to > run the program, they have to have YOUR password, and so have the > ability to masquerade as you and to do ANYTHING you can do, as you. > > I'd be MUCH more comfortable with granting the other users access to > the particular command "sans password;" while there can be arguments > made to the effect that that's not 'totally secure,' it seems to me > that giving out YOUR password represents a ludicrous breach of > security. Mhm, I agree. The way I've helped protect against that is the program checks to make sure that the file with the password is owned by the user/group the program runs under and has the permissons set to 600. I tell the user to treat this file with the same caution as the 'passwd' and 'shadow' files. The user who runs the program is *supposed* to be a dedicated user account just for running this program as. Part of my reasoning for this method is that within the program a given user (there can be multiple) may has restricted access (like being able to perform searches only). I realize that there is probably no way these users could get to the shell anyway but I thought it was still a little safer than using 'nopasswd'. I think what I will need to do once the program is finished (or rather, working enough to test against) is see if I can catch the interest of some security folks. Ask them to see what they think of the security and see if they have suggestions for making it more secure. In the meantime, I think I will leave the password in place. That said, I still need an answer to my problem. :p Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 15:36:45 2005 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 11:36:45 -0400 Subject: Zabbix Message-ID: <42515F0D.9000707@knet.ca> Are they're others on TLUG that use Zabbix? If so, how long have you used and what is your opinion of Zabbix? I have been using it for about 4 weeks now on our network. Of course like all monitoring systems, i doesn't tell you WHAT went wrong, just WHEN. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 17:04:35 2005 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 13:04:35 -0400 Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers In-Reply-To: <424DD041.3030409-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <424AE64A.4000807@sympatico.ca> <200503311148.28234.sniffy@rogers.com> <424DD041.3030409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425173A3.3010102@sympatico.ca> David J Patrick wrote: >Chris Gow wrote: > > > >>On March 30, 2005 12:47 pm, David J Patrick wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for the >>>last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming mail >>>arriving late. >>> >>> >>> >>Have you complained to Bell about this? A friend of mine is having similar >>problems receiving email. He called and complained and got a month's free >>service. >> >> >> >> >OH yeah ! Howling and growling ! Grumble MSN this, and Passport that ! >I leaned on the linux horn with a heavy hand. For your amusement, I've >copied the latest here. >========= > >I have been a loyal Bell Canada customer for over 20 years and used >Sympatico for the past 5, or so. Several years ago I switched to linux >(after huge frustrations with Windows) and with the help of the linux >community, have been a happy sympatico customer. >I'm not happy any more ! >The recent merger with Microsoft has broken several things for us (linux >users) and I suspect this is no accident. In particular, the move to the >MSN mail servers has resulted in truly poor mail handling. If I thought >that this was temporary I would just live with it, but as you phase out >the old smtp servers you are forcing all customers to "upgrade" to >Passport authentication. As you may or may not know, Microsoft will not >allow access to Passport sign-up with linux. This is a big problem. > >so what do I want ? >1) I am paying for mail handling that I am not receiving. I would like a >rebate for the week+ (and ongoing). > >2) wake up and smell the coffee ! linux is here. It is stable, secure, >easy to use and free. People who try it, stay with it, and this year you >will see linux adoption on an unprecedented scale. Your "What we don't >support" webpage lists linux among "Out-of-date and server-based >operating systems". This is grossly inaccurate; I run no servers and my >entire system is upgraded daily. > > No-one can tell you what to use internally, be wall-to-wall Microsoft, >if you like (and if you don't mind the down-time) but to be a >world-class ISP you should recognize that your pals from Redmond are not >the only game in town. Failing to do so will result in loss of customer >base and big bad press. > >3) If your new policy is decidedly anti-linux (instead of the usual >apathy) you should just be honest, and send a notice to your many >linux-using customers alerting them that their chosen platform is "no >longer welcome" giving them a chance to secure a more compatible ISP. > >I have been promised a response, in previous exchanges with Sympatico >tech support, but my Inbox remains empty (see: technical difficulties ?) >I expect a coherent response to this one. > >Sympatico customer, for now, >David Patrick >==== > > >Still no decent response, though. I think my days as a Sympatico >customer are numbered. >djp > They probably didn't get your e-mail :-) I'm having problems also (just the past week though) and am not happy about it. Good to know when I start arguing with that I'm not the only one. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 18:52:56 2005 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 21:52:56 +0300 Subject: testing Sympatico mail servers In-Reply-To: <425173A3.3010102-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425173A3.3010102@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: A year or so back I was running against the same kind of problem at work, though we use all Windoze mail clients. Their mail problem was so bad for us that we switched service and opted to have our own mail server, qmail on debian. The thing is working like charm ever since to the extent that I am almost confident that whatever mail problem that we encounter have nothing to do with our mail server even before checking it (though, just for the sake of habit, I do check the logs and see indeed the problem is with other mail servers...mainly those based on M$ technologies). I don't know if that helps in any way, except to say, move to a different service. cheers, EK ----Original Message Follows---- From: John Moniz <john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: testing Sympatico mail servers Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 13:04:35 -0400 David J Patrick wrote: >Chris Gow wrote: > > > >>On March 30, 2005 12:47 pm, David J Patrick wrote: >> >> >> >> >>>the Sympatico mail servers have been acting strangely for me, for >>>the >>>last couple of weeks. smtp down for days at a time, and incoming >>>mail >>>arriving late. >>> >>> >>> >>Have you complained to Bell about this? A friend of mine is having >>similar problems receiving email. He called and complained and got >>a month's free service. >> >> >> >> >OH yeah ! Howling and growling ! Grumble MSN this, and Passport that >! >I leaned on the linux horn with a heavy hand. For your amusement, >I've >copied the latest here. >========= > >I have been a loyal Bell Canada customer for over 20 years and used >Sympatico for the past 5, or so. Several years ago I switched to >linux >(after huge frustrations with Windows) and with the help of the >linux >community, have been a happy sympatico customer. >I'm not happy any more ! >The recent merger with Microsoft has broken several things for us >(linux >users) and I suspect this is no accident. In particular, the move to >the >MSN mail servers has resulted in truly poor mail handling. If I >thought >that this was temporary I would just live with it, but as you phase >out >the old smtp servers you are forcing all customers to "upgrade" to >Passport authentication. As you may or may not know, Microsoft will >not >allow access to Passport sign-up with linux. This is a big problem. > >so what do I want ? >1) I am paying for mail handling that I am not receiving. I would >like a >rebate for the week+ (and ongoing). > >2) wake up and smell the coffee ! linux is here. It is stable, >secure, >easy to use and free. People who try it, stay with it, and this year >you >will see linux adoption on an unprecedented scale. Your "What we >don't >support" webpage lists linux among "Out-of-date and server-based >operating systems". This is grossly inaccurate; I run no servers and >my >entire system is upgraded daily. > >No-one can tell you what to use internally, be wall-to-wall >Microsoft, >if you like (and if you don't mind the down-time) but to be a >world-class ISP you should recognize that your pals from Redmond are >not >the only game in town. Failing to do so will result in loss of >customer >base and big bad press. > >3) If your new policy is decidedly anti-linux (instead of the usual >apathy) you should just be honest, and send a notice to your many >linux-using customers alerting them that their chosen platform is >"no >longer welcome" giving them a chance to secure a more compatible >ISP. > >I have been promised a response, in previous exchanges with >Sympatico >tech support, but my Inbox remains empty (see: technical >difficulties ?) >I expect a coherent response to this one. > >Sympatico customer, for now, >David Patrick >==== > > >Still no decent response, though. I think my days as a Sympatico >customer are numbered. >djp > They probably didn't get your e-mail :-) I'm having problems also (just the past week though) and am not happy about it. Good to know when I start arguing with that I'm not the only one. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 19:03:19 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 15:03:19 -0400 Subject: Place selling Slackware CD? Message-ID: <20050404190319.GA27615@node1.opengeometry.net> Is there any place in GTA where I can buy official Slackware CD set? I used to buy from UofT bookstore, but they don't have the latest 10.1 yet. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 20:22:46 2005 From: gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy) Date: Mon, 04 Apr 2005 16:22:46 -0400 Subject: Place selling Slackware CD? Message-ID: If you don't find a local place, CheapBytes has 10.1 for $9 USD, plus shipping. http://cart.cheapbytes.com/cgi-bin/cart/0070011135.html >>> opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org 04/04/05 03:03pm >>> Is there any place in GTA where I can buy official Slackware CD set? I used to buy from UofT bookstore, but they don't have the latest 10.1 yet. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 4 21:31:04 2005 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2005 17:31:04 -0400 Subject: Place selling Slackware CD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050404213104.GA76954@shell.vex.net> On Mon, Apr 04, 2005 at 04:22:46PM -0400, Gord Jeoffroy wrote: > If you don't find a local place, CheapBytes has 10.1 for $9 USD, > plus shipping. > And how much of that $9 goes to Patrick Volkerding et al. for all the dedicated work put into Slackware? > > >>> opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org 04/04/05 03:03pm >>> > Is there any place in GTA where I can buy official Slackware CD set? I > used to buy from UofT bookstore, but they don't have the latest 10.1 > yet. > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 5 13:12:02 2005 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:12:02 -0400 Subject: PHLUG meeting tonight Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20050405085442.01f79cf0@mail.eol.ca> Welcome in spring by coming to the Peel Halton Linux Users Group (PHLUG) tonight. Great weather, good food and as much chatting as you can stand. We will meet again at Mulligans Pub & Grill, 2458 Dundas St. W., Mississauga. Official time is 7 pm. although a few come early, others come as they can. Mulligans is part of the Woodchester Mall (between Erin Mills Parkway and Winston Churchill), so there is lots of space to park. No hold barred on technical talk. Even bring your laptop if you have one. With such fine weather, the freshness of spring and no holidays bracketing our meeting, lets make this the largest turnout we have ever had. If you have questions, you can email me or phone me at (905) 822-6088. See you there! Bill Mudry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 5 15:43:51 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 11:43:51 -0400 Subject: Supressing password request from 'sudo' In-Reply-To: <42508E86.6040801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425025B9.9040002@alteeve.com> <20050403173000.GA31337@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <42502FC4.90908@alteeve.com> <42508E86.6040801@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050405154351.GA11329@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sun, Apr 03, 2005 at 08:47:02PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >Mhm, I agree. The way I've helped protect against that is the program >checks to make sure that the file with the password is owned by the >user/group the program runs under and has the permissons set to 600. I >tell the user to treat this file with the same caution as the 'passwd' >and 'shadow' files. The user who runs the program is *supposed* to be a >dedicated user account just for running this program as. I've been thinking about this problem some more, and I had a further thought (gasp). I know that you can specify an exact binary with sudo, so that only that binary can be used NOPASSWD. So here's my thought; you could direct sudo to a script you write that does additional checking, validates arguments, and if all is copacetic then it passes the command to your script. You could put the script in a place the requires certain permissions to run, and the filesystem could act as your first barrier to access. Just another suggestion. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 5 19:30:36 2005 From: presidentofthefuture-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mike Newman) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 15:30:36 -0400 Subject: why is this being done with .NET technology? In-Reply-To: References: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87@outbox.allstream.net> <20050331182929.GS23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I had to take a C# class in college last semester, so I asked my teacher if I could use Mono. He was overjoyed to hear that I'd be doing the assignments in a Unix environment, and asked me to demo Mono for the class. Unfortunately my laptop crapped out on me shortly after that so the presentation never happened, but I found Mono to be a very suitable replacement. Frankly I'm excited about Mono's System.Windows.Forms implementation, which is to be implemented within the excellent Cairo framework. However, there's nothing stopping you from using GTK# on X11 or Windows. As for C#/.Net versus Java, why not use both? http://www.ikvm.net/ -- Get Firefox - Take back the Web http://www.getfirefox.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 5 21:59:28 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:59:28 -0400 Subject: OT - Laptop memory References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <000b01c53a2a$d0954c90$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> I upgraded my laptop's memory and I have a 128MB SODIMM PC-133 that needs a new machine... It came off a ThinkPad R31 but will also work in many other brands such as Compaq EVO. Up for grab at $20, local pickup (or delivery, depending where you live!). Contact me outside the board if interested. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 04:41:00 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 23:41:00 -0500 Subject: why is this being done with .NET technology? In-Reply-To: References: <20050331032120.A36F91ECD87@outbox.allstream.net> <20050331182929.GS23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Apr 5, 2005 2:30 PM, Mike Newman wrote: > I had to take a C# class in college last semester, so I asked my > teacher if I could use Mono. He was overjoyed to hear that I'd be > doing the assignments in a Unix environment, and asked me to demo Mono > for the class. Unfortunately my laptop crapped out on me shortly after > that so the presentation never happened, but I found Mono to be a very > suitable replacement. > Frankly I'm excited about Mono's System.Windows.Forms implementation, > which is to be implemented within the excellent Cairo framework. > However, there's nothing stopping you from using GTK# on X11 or > Windows. Cairo looks like pretty neat stuff indeed. I find it fairly stunning the success that has been had with Mono; the fact that it works at all, let alone there being a fair number of applications deployed is just surprising. I can do an "apt-get muine monodevelop kurush f-spot blam libapache-mod-mono" and have: a) A music player b) A Borland style IDE tool c) A somewhat simple finance application d) A photo manager e) An RSS aggregator app f) An ASP server The one thing I find unfortunate is that enough bits of Mono and ancilliary libs _haven't_ been Debian packaged to allow running Nat Friedman's "Dashboard." That would be the "killer app" potentially warranting Mono success. (Mind you, it's certainly NOT a new notion; it's derivative of the 1996 Remembrance Agent, and I'm rather certain that Friedman knew of RA...) -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 17:22:04 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:22:04 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting Message-ID: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> I am sending this out to the TLUG mailing main (not announce) list and to the people who attended the second Linux World Canada Planning meeting, so if you got this twice that was sort of deliberate (I just want to make sure everyone got this at least once). In follow-up to the second Linux World Canada planning meeting, here is what the task list looks like now: - Memberships - Everyone who plans to attend the show is responsible for getting their own membership. If all you want to do is see the show floor and help in the booth, then the membership is free - see http://www.exporeg.com/lwnw/ - Handouts - A one page summary of what TLUG/NewTLUG is about - Chris Johnson (Chris - Two+ PCs for the booth - Colin McGregor - Drew Sulivan has updated the TLUG Website - Done. - Custom Knoppix - An interactive look at TLUG - Colin McGregor - Colin McGregor followed up on the booth and found out that: - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. consensus was we could not afford the power bill and that we would run with UPS and laptop PCs. - No tables/chairs are provided, there is no problem bringing in our own. - No internet connection will be available. - Our booth number will be #306 to see where we are relative to the rest of the show goto: http://www.linuxworldcanada.com/pdfs/floorplan_linuxworld-networkworld_v2.0.pdf Consensus was that this was a ok position, and given what we paid this was good stuff. - Seneca Cunningham is collecting of old presentations for use on Knoppix disk - Freebee stuff - Unbuntu Linux - 1000 copies? - Colin McGregor - Xerox - Open Office - Colin McGregor - IBM / SuSE - Leah Cunningham is to approach re: free stuff. - TLUG Banner - Bill Thanis - TLUG Shirts for booth staff to wear at the show - Pavel Zaitsev - Seneca Cunningham has located a small laminating machine for TLUG badges - Scheduling - Set-up and tear down times - Colin McGregor - Volunteers at the show - William Park Other bits, I did price out the cost of getting round metal badges, and the cheapest parts that will work with my machine are from a firm called Mister Button, and their prices are here: http://www.mrbutton.com/214parts.htm My feeling is that the cost of buttons is too high to make them a give away item. Their comments about poor results are wrong if LOTS of pressure is used during the assembly process, but it means that after doing two dozen badges in a row my hands feel like rubber claws.... Plan will be to have the next Linux World Canada planning meeting Thursday at 8:00 PM in the Starbucks inside the Indigo Store at 2300 Yonge Street (across the street from the Duke of Kent pub where we meet last time), north west corner of Yonge and Eglinton. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 17:24:52 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:24:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bouncing messages? (not really OT) Message-ID: <46317.206.186.8.130.1112808292.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Why do we keep getting back messages sent to the TLUG with a "invalid e-mail address" status? Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 17:34:03 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:34:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Colin McGregor wrote: > - Colin McGregor followed up on the booth and found out that: > - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. That is absurd. At worst it would require running some cables that have probably been run for the booth next door anyway. > consensus was we could not afford the power bill and that we would run > with UPS and laptop PCs. > - No tables/chairs are provided, there is no problem bringing in our own. > - No internet connection will be available. As far as I'm concerned Internet access and power should be a given. > - Our booth number will be #306 to see where we are relative to the rest > of the show goto: > > http://www.linuxworldcanada.com/pdfs/floorplan_linuxworld-networkworld_v2.0.pdf > Consensus was that this was a ok position, and given what we paid this > was good stuff. They made the local LUG pay for a booth? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 17:45:05 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 13:45:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > - Colin McGregor followed up on the booth and found out that: > > - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. > > That is absurd. At worst it would require running some cables that have > probably been run for the booth next door anyway. > > > consensus was we could not afford the power bill and that we would run > > with UPS and laptop PCs. > > - No tables/chairs are provided, there is no problem bringing in our own. > > - No internet connection will be available. > > As far as I'm concerned Internet access and power should be a given. > > > - Our booth number will be #306 to see where we are relative to the rest > > of the show goto: > > > > http://www.linuxworldcanada.com/pdfs/floorplan_linuxworld-networkworld_v2.0.pdf > > Consensus was that this was a ok position, and given what we paid this > > was good stuff. > > They made the local LUG pay for a booth? Just a few more thoughts here. Quite a few TLUG members including myself are doing _volunteer_ work at the show and they are making TLUG pay for a booth and want to make it pay for power? Have you pointed out to them how supportive TLUG is being? I'm happy to point this out to them if you give me a name. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 18:11:35 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:11:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > > - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. > > That is absurd. At worst it would require running some cables that have > probably been run for the booth next door anyway. It's like the outlandish prices hotels charge for Room Service food: it's not that it actually costs them that much, but that this is one of the ways they make their money. Stupid, yes, but it's something some trade shows do. The trick is not convincing them that it's easy to provide power, but convincing them that TLUG is a special case and deserves an exemption from the fees they impose on everyone else. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 18:17:48 2005 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:17:48 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <82101143.20050406141748@rogers.com> Wednesday, April 6, 2005, 2:11:35 PM, you wrote: HS> On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: >> > - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. >> >> That is absurd. At worst it would require running some cables that have >> probably been run for the booth next door anyway. HS> It's like the outlandish prices hotels charge for Room Service food: it's HS> not that it actually costs them that much, but that this is one of the HS> ways they make their money. Stupid, yes, but it's something some trade HS> shows do. HS> The trick is not convincing them that it's easy to provide power, but HS> convincing them that TLUG is a special case and deserves an exemption from HS> the fees they impose on everyone else. HS> Henry Spencer HS> henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Just a thought, from somebody with some convention experience: yes, the whole hydro thing is a bit of a b*tch, but it's not unheard of to lean over to the booth next door and ask to share their feed (via a power-bar). Can anyone find/contact one of the neighbouring exhibitors? Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 18:33:16 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 14:33:16 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <001701c53ad7$19b81040$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Brockway" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 06, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux World Canada Planning meeting > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Colin McGregor wrote: > > > > > - Colin McGregor followed up on the booth and found out that: > > > - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. > > > > That is absurd. At worst it would require running some cables that have > > probably been run for the booth next door anyway. > > > > > consensus was we could not afford the power bill and that we would run > > > with UPS and laptop PCs. > > > - No tables/chairs are provided, there is no problem bringing in our own. > > > - No internet connection will be available. > > > > As far as I'm concerned Internet access and power should be a given. > > > > > - Our booth number will be #306 to see where we are relative to the rest > > > of the show goto: > > > > > > http://www.linuxworldcanada.com/pdfs/floorplan_linuxworld-networkworld_v2.0.pdf > > > Consensus was that this was a ok position, and given what we paid this > > > was good stuff. > > > > They made the local LUG pay for a booth? > > Just a few more thoughts here. Quite a few TLUG members including myself > are doing _volunteer_ work at the show and they are making TLUG pay for a > booth and want to make it pay for power? Sorry, I should have been a little more clear, we paid $0.00 for the booth itself (it was a freebee). What we get for free is a 10 foot by 10 foot booth, we are on our own for everything else (power, internet access, table(s), chair(s), etc...). Tables and chairs we can bring in on our own without any trouble. Bill Thanis at the last meeting (joked, I think) noted he though he could get a small gasoline powered generator and we could power the booth off that, venting the exaust into the booths around us that didn't help :-) . As stands the plan is to power the booth off laptop batteries and UPS... In defense of "Plum Commications" (the people who are running the show) they note that for power, tables, chairs etc. at the event they are being charged by the convention centre and I gather they are offering this stuff at cost (well, the cost the convention centre charges, which is arguably obcene...). > Have you pointed out to them how supportive TLUG is being? I'm happy to > point this out to them if you give me a name. I don't think it would do much good appealing to Plum Communications. On the other hand if you know of a firm that would be willing to sponsor the TFN to the tune of $300 - $400 we could make some very interesting things happen with that sort of cash :-) . Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 6 19:35:38 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 15:35:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Henry Spencer wrote: > The trick is not convincing them that it's easy to provide power, but > convincing them that TLUG is a special case and deserves an exemption from > the fees they impose on everyone else. Yeah that's what I was getting at (convincing them TLUG is a special case, and is helping them out through volunteers) but Colin's post indicates they have given a decent amount to TLUG IMHO. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 01:05:14 2005 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ron Scott) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:05:14 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Colin McGregor wrote: > > >>- Colin McGregor followed up on the booth and found out that: >> - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. > > > That is absurd. At worst it would require running some cables that have > probably been run for the booth next door anyway. > > >> consensus was we could not afford the power bill and that we would run >>with UPS and laptop PCs. Please be aware that most UPSs require AC power to be present to start operating. If the UPSs are just attached to a PC, nothing will happen, unless the UPS has been modified. Hopefully, all planned methods of powering equipment will be tested well before the event. Ron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 01:23:50 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:23:50 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <42548BA6.2060202@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > > >>On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Colin McGregor wrote: >> >> >>>- Colin McGregor followed up on the booth and found out that: >>> - The booth will NOT come with power, getting power will cost over $100. >> >>That is absurd. At worst it would require running some cables that have >>probably been run for the booth next door anyway. >> >> >>> consensus was we could not afford the power bill and that we would run >>>with UPS and laptop PCs. >>> - No tables/chairs are provided, there is no problem bringing in our own. >>> - No internet connection will be available. >> >>As far as I'm concerned Internet access and power should be a given. >> >> >>> - Our booth number will be #306 to see where we are relative to the rest >>>of the show goto: >>> >>>http://www.linuxworldcanada.com/pdfs/floorplan_linuxworld-networkworld_v2.0.pdf >>> Consensus was that this was a ok position, and given what we paid this >>>was good stuff. >> >>They made the local LUG pay for a booth? > > > Just a few more thoughts here. Quite a few TLUG members including myself > are doing _volunteer_ work at the show and they are making TLUG pay for a > booth and want to make it pay for power? > > Have you pointed out to them how supportive TLUG is being? I'm happy to > point this out to them if you give me a name. One thing to bear in mind, is that it might be the Convention Centre, that's making the rules & charges, or even worse, some union. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 01:26:05 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:26:05 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <4254874A.3030204-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> Ron Scott wrote: > > Please be aware that most UPSs require AC power to be present to start > operating. If the UPSs are just attached to a PC, nothing will happen, > unless the UPS has been modified. Hopefully, all planned methods of > powering equipment will be tested well before the event. AFAIK, an average UPS will power a modest box for an hour TOPS, and that is without monitor ! While it might me marginally feasible to use an array of car batteries, and an inverter, it's at least $100 worth of PITA. Tell ya what; I'll chip in $10. and if there are 9 other loose pocketed linux lubbers, we got us juice for the show ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 01:32:41 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 21:32:41 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <42548BA6.2060202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42548BA6.2060202@rogers.com> Message-ID: <42548DB9.7040307@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > > One thing to bear in mind, is that it might be the Convention Centre, > that's making the rules & charges, or even worse, some union. That's exactly what it is; IATSE, if I'm not mistaken. While we're going to chew up $6 worth of a/c, the CC is a union shop and to get two of the brothers to push the cable cart around, and connect the twist-lock, costs real dough. There's no getting around it. djp ps. How many teamsters does it take to screw in a light bulb ? 52, you got a problem with that ?? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 01:52:28 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:52:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <42548C2D.4050902-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > Ron Scott wrote: > > > > > Please be aware that most UPSs require AC power to be present to start > > operating. If the UPSs are just attached to a PC, nothing will happen, > > unless the UPS has been modified. Hopefully, all planned methods of > > powering equipment will be tested well before the event. > > AFAIK, an average UPS will power a modest box for an hour TOPS, and that > is without monitor ! > While it might me marginally feasible to use an array of car batteries, > and an inverter, it's at least $100 worth of PITA. > Tell ya what; I'll chip in $10. and if there are 9 other loose pocketed > linux lubbers, we got us juice for the show ! Great idea David. Put me down for $10. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 01:58:52 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 21:58:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <42548DB9.7040307-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42548BA6.2060202@rogers.com> <42548DB9.7040307@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > That's exactly what it is; IATSE, if I'm not mistaken. While we're going > to chew up $6 worth of a/c, the CC is a union shop and to get two of the > brothers to push the cable cart around, and connect the twist-lock, > costs real dough. There's no getting around it. > > djp > > ps. > How many teamsters does it take to screw in a light bulb ? Some years ago back in Australia we had a bit of a problem with the poor steveadores not getting paid enough (at least that was their position). Someone came out with this little beauty: SPONSOR A STEVEDORE We need to show them that we care. ---- ---- -- ------ It's just not right. Thousands of stevedores in our very own country are living at or just below the six figure salary line. And if that wasn't bad enough, many of them may go several weeks or months without a paycheck if they are forced by the Maritime Union of Australia to strike. But now you can help. You can sponsor a needy stevedore. For less than $60 an hour you can help keep a stevedore economically viable during their time of need. Sixty dollars an hour may not seem like a lot of money to you, but to a stevedore it could mean the difference between a vacation skiing in Switzerland or a Mediterranean cruise. For you, sixty dollars is nothing more than half a week's rent or mortgage payment. But to a stevedore, sixty dollars an hour will replace a portion of his or her salary. During the strike action stevedores are facing the hardships of losing their daily subsidised hot meals and access to their free gym, swimming pool and recreational facilities. Many striking stevedores can no longer take home crates of whiskey or the occasional 100 cm television or new car that "accidentally" fell-off-the-back-of-a- container-ship and was written off by the Shipping Line's insurance. "HOW WILL I KNOW I"M HELPING?" Each month, you will receive a complete financial report on the stevedore you sponsor. Detailed information about his or her stocks, shares, savings, and real-estate holdings will be mailed to your home. You will be able to watch your stevedore's net worth grow. You'll also get information on how they chose to invest their 2.4 million dollar lump sum they get upon their retirement. "HOW WIILL THEY KNOW I'M HELPING?" Your stevedore will be told that he or she has a SPECIAL FRIEND that just wants to help. Although the stevedore won't know your name, he or she will be able to make reverse-charges calls to your home via a special operator in case they need more funds. Please charge the account listed below $480 per day for the duration of the strike. Please send me a picture of the stevedore I have sponsored, along with a "Die Scab Die" badge and my very own "Stevedore Ticket" which enables me to claim a wage for up to 4 hours a day while sitting on my arse doing nothing. <> Mastercard <> Visa <> American Express <> Diner's Club <> Bankcard <> Union Card Account Number:________________________________ Expiration Date:_________________________ Signature:______________________________________ Send Completed Forms to the: MUA Head Office, Sussex St, Sydney NSW 2000. Note: Sponsors agree not to contact the stevedore sponsored or their families in person or by other means including, but not limited to, phone calls, letters, email, or third parties. However, if you wish to watch your stevedore working you can visit your local wharf during normal working hours (from 11:00AM to 11:15AM). Contributions made are not tax deductible. In the event of end of the strike action sponsors agree to a one time administration charge of $500.00 to cover administration costs of this program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 02:41:06 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2005 22:41:06 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 09:52:28PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > AFAIK, an average UPS will power a modest box for an hour TOPS, and > > that is without monitor ! While it might me marginally feasible to > > use an array of car batteries, and an inverter, it's at least $100 > > worth of PITA. Tell ya what; I'll chip in $10. and if there are 9 > > other loose pocketed linux lubbers, we got us juice for the show ! > > Great idea David. Put me down for $10. me three. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 12:48:02 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:48:02 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <4254874A.3030204-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050407124802.GV23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 09:05:14PM -0400, Ron Scott wrote: > Please be aware that most UPSs require AC power to be present to start > operating. If the UPSs are just attached to a PC, nothing will happen, > unless the UPS has been modified. Hopefully, all planned methods of > powering equipment will be tested well before the event. As far as I know all APC UPSs start just fine, although they may require you holding the power button for a few seconds to convince it you actually mean it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 12:50:09 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:50:09 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <42548C2D.4050902-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050407125009.GW23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 09:26:05PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > AFAIK, an average UPS will power a modest box for an hour TOPS, and that > is without monitor ! > While it might me marginally feasible to use an array of car batteries, > and an inverter, it's at least $100 worth of PITA. > Tell ya what; I'll chip in $10. and if there are 9 other loose pocketed > linux lubbers, we got us juice for the show ! The APC 800VA I have claims to run your average computer with a 19" screen for around 45minutes. Now a laptop on the other hand should run a few hours on that at least. If the UPS is a SmartUPS 3000 or something, well you may get a few days out of that. :) I feel sorry for anyone that plans to drag that kind of UPS anywhere though. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 12:56:15 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 08:56:15 -0400 Subject: logwatch and kernel messages Message-ID: <20050407125615.GA11684@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I use logwatch to send a nice rundown of "interesting things about my machines I may not have known", and I am pretty happy with how that works. With one exception - when I move data on and off my SD flash memory via USB, I get hundreds of lines like this: 1 Time(s): usb-storage: 28 00 00 00 01 bf 00 00 01 00 1 Time(s): usb-storage: 28 00 00 00 01 c0 00 00 01 00 1 Time(s): usb-storage: 28 00 00 00 01 c1 00 00 01 00 While this is amusing for the first couple of kb, after I move 600 Mb onto the card it gets pretty old. Today I had to scroll past 42,000 lines of of this stuff. So, does anyone know how to make this stop? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 13:28:51 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 13:28:51 +0000 Subject: logwatch and kernel messages In-Reply-To: <20050407125615.GA11684-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407125615.GA11684@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200504071328.51683.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 7, 2005 12:56 pm, William O'Higgins wrote: > I use logwatch to send a nice rundown of "interesting things about my > machines I may not have known", and I am pretty happy with how that > works. With one exception - when I move data on and off my SD flash > memory via USB, I get hundreds of lines like this: > > 1 Time(s): usb-storage: 28 00 00 00 01 bf 00 00 01 00 > 1 Time(s): usb-storage: 28 00 00 00 01 c0 00 00 01 00 > 1 Time(s): usb-storage: 28 00 00 00 01 c1 00 00 01 00 > > While this is amusing for the first couple of kb, after I move 600 Mb > onto the card it gets pretty old. Today I had to scroll past 42,000 > lines of of this stuff. > > So, does anyone know how to make this stop? Thanks. I have found that most distros do strange things in fstab for USB devices. This is what I use for my USB devices. Flash keys, digital cameras, SD, CF, and it works well. /dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 auto noauto,user,rw,async,noatime,umask=0077 0 0 Worth a look. Check it out. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 12:40:01 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 08:40:01 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <42548DB9.7040307-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42548BA6.2060202@rogers.com> <42548DB9.7040307@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42552A21.2070309@sympatico.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > > the CC is a union shop So, go find the shop steward and tell 'em we're not for profit. That can work. Stewart (the former shop steward) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 13:55:56 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 09:55:56 -0400 Subject: logwatch and kernel messages In-Reply-To: <200504071328.51683.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407125615.GA11684@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200504071328.51683.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050407135556.GA11995@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 01:28:51PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: >I have found that most distros do strange things in fstab for USB devices. I can't blame a distro for this one - I set up this one myself. >This is what I use for my USB devices. Flash keys, digital cameras, SD, CF, >and it works well. > >/dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 auto noauto,user,rw,async,noatime,umask=0077 0 0 > >Worth a look. Check it out. What I copied and pasted from a search, without understanding it, is this: /dev/sda1 /mnt/card vfat rw,user,noauto,sync,dirsync 0 0 I'm not really sure what much of this means. I've read "man mount", and I've heard about umask, but I don't understand it. It's one of those "yeah, but what does it mean to *me*" issues. When I get a chance I'll blindly copy and paste your entry into fstab, tail -f /var/log/messages and see what happens, but is there a good, hand-holding for the terminally clueless guide to filesystems somewhere? Thanks. P.S. Maybe such a guide could tell me why my USB key is always /dev/sda, but my SD card is always /dev/sda1? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 14:24:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 10:24:11 -0400 Subject: logwatch and kernel messages In-Reply-To: <20050407135556.GA11995-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407125615.GA11684@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200504071328.51683.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050407135556.GA11995@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050407142411.GA2152@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 09:55:56AM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > What I copied and pasted from a search, without understanding it, is > this: > > /dev/sda1 /mnt/card vfat rw,user,noauto,sync,dirsync 0 0 All you really need is 'noatime,noauto'. > P.S. Maybe such a guide could tell me why my USB key is always > /dev/sda, but my SD card is always /dev/sda1? I missed the beginning of this thread. But your /etc/fstab must match your USB device. Try fdisk -l If it shows /dev/sda only, then use /dev/sda. If it shows /dev/sdaX, then use that. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 18:20:18 2005 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:20:18 -0400 Subject: Interesting SATA/SCSI question/problem Message-ID: <425579E2.7030400@alteeve.com> I just installed a new SATA drive in my computer. Previously to this it only had 1 IDE drive (hda) 1 CD-Rom (hdc) and 2 external SCSI drives.(sda and sdb If I recall) The problem is, when I activate the SATA drive, it comes up as sda and the external SCSI drives are ignored. (The Bios sees them, Windows sees them, Though Windows98 dosen't see the SATA drive(Non issue)) Is there a way I can get FC3-64 to see both the SATA and SCSI drives? Where should I be looking? Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 18:34:59 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 14:34:59 -0400 Subject: Interesting SATA/SCSI question/problem In-Reply-To: <425579E2.7030400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425579E2.7030400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42557D53.8020905@alteeve.com> Lance F. Squire wrote: > I just installed a new SATA drive in my computer. > > Previously to this it only had 1 IDE drive (hda) 1 CD-Rom (hdc) and 2 > external SCSI drives.(sda and sdb If I recall) > > The problem is, when I activate the SATA drive, it comes up as sda and > the external SCSI drives are ignored. (The Bios sees them, Windows sees > them, Though Windows98 dosen't see the SATA drive(Non issue)) > > Is there a way I can get FC3-64 to see both the SATA and SCSI drives? > > Where should I be looking? > > Lance I haven't run into this problem (yet) but my first incling would be to change the LUN ID (if possible) on your controller card. I would expect this not to be a problem in the first place but obviously it is. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 18:59:41 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 14:59:41 -0400 Subject: Interesting SATA/SCSI question/problem In-Reply-To: <425579E2.7030400-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425579E2.7030400@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050407185941.GX23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 02:20:18PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote: > I just installed a new SATA drive in my computer. > > Previously to this it only had 1 IDE drive (hda) 1 CD-Rom (hdc) and 2 > external SCSI drives.(sda and sdb If I recall) > > The problem is, when I activate the SATA drive, it comes up as sda and > the external SCSI drives are ignored. (The Bios sees them, Windows sees > them, Though Windows98 dosen't see the SATA drive(Non issue)) > > Is there a way I can get FC3-64 to see both the SATA and SCSI drives? > > Where should I be looking? Load the driver for the scsi card. By default linux supports having an alias for ONE scsi card to auto load when something asks for /dev/sdseomthing. Once one driver is loaded it won't try that again, so since sata shows as scsi, it will never try to load another scsi driver automatically. Just load it manually. On debian this is done by adding the driver name to /etc/modules (not modules.conf which is something else entirely) which makes it load that module at boot automatically. Hopefully FC3 has some similar method to specify modules to load at boot. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 19:13:32 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:13:32 +0300 (IDT) Subject: skype problems ? Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to know if others experience broken up skype sound (pc to pc, no phone service) I have seen this happen twice so far and it's getting old (two different systems). Also, what's a popular video chat type of software for linux. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 19:20:40 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:20:40 -0400 Subject: skype problems ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050407192040.GY23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 10:13:32PM +0300, Peter wrote: > Hi, I'd like to know if others experience broken up skype sound (pc to > pc, no phone service) I have seen this happen twice so far and it's > getting old (two different systems). Also, what's a popular video chat > type of software for linux. Well for just voice, asterisk is of course the ultimate solution. Various programs support SIP and/or h.323 (or whatever it is). kphone, gnomemeeting, ohphone (openh.323). There is even an openh.323 answering machine which might be neat. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 19:37:57 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:37:57 +0300 (IDT) Subject: skype problems ? In-Reply-To: <20050407192040.GY23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407192040.GY23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Apr 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 10:13:32PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> Hi, I'd like to know if others experience broken up skype sound (pc to >> pc, no phone service) I have seen this happen twice so far and it's >> getting old (two different systems). Also, what's a popular video chat >> type of software for linux. > > Well for just voice, asterisk is of course the ultimate solution. > Various programs support SIP and/or h.323 (or whatever it is). kphone, > gnomemeeting, ohphone (openh.323). There is even an openh.323 answering > machine which might be neat. ok, thanks, I'll look into it. I would appreciate it very much if I'd hear some confirmations of skype breakups from others though. I have a hunch about the system I'm using and about certain 'features' of the network in a certain place. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 19:48:42 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 15:48:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <20050407024106.GA1897-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 09:52:28PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > AFAIK, an average UPS will power a modest box for an hour TOPS, and > > > that is without monitor ! While it might me marginally feasible to > > > use an array of car batteries, and an inverter, it's at least $100 > > > worth of PITA. Tell ya what; I'll chip in $10. and if there are 9 > > > other loose pocketed linux lubbers, we got us juice for the show ! > > > > Great idea David. Put me down for $10. > > me three. C'mon guys and gals. Only 7 more $10 donations needed to power the booth. Current donators: David J Patrick Robert Brockway William Park Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 20:54:20 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2005 16:54:20 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42559DFC.9090507@golden.net> Robert Brockway wrote: >On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, William Park wrote: > > > >>On Wed, Apr 06, 2005 at 09:52:28PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >> >> >>>>AFAIK, an average UPS will power a modest box for an hour TOPS, and >>>>that is without monitor ! While it might me marginally feasible to >>>>use an array of car batteries, and an inverter, it's at least $100 >>>>worth of PITA. Tell ya what; I'll chip in $10. and if there are 9 >>>>other loose pocketed linux lubbers, we got us juice for the show ! >>>> >>>> >>>Great idea David. Put me down for $10. >>> >>> >>me three. >> >> > >C'mon guys and gals. Only 7 more $10 donations needed to power the booth. > >Current donators: > >David J Patrick >Robert Brockway >William Park > >Rob > > > Me four although I'm not sure about making the show yet. Rob, last I knew you live in South Mississauga contact me off list and I'll send you the cash. I'm the guy who dropped off the 14400 hardware modem. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 21:18:51 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 17:18:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <42559DFC.9090507-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> <42559DFC.9090507@golden.net> Message-ID: OpenTrend Solutions is donating the remaining $60. Donators: David J Patrick $10 Robert Brockway $10 William Park $10 John Myshrall $10 OpenTrend Solutions $60 Who should the money be delivered to? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 22:07:02 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 18:07:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> <42559DFC.9090507@golden.net> Message-ID: John Myshrall just called and has kindly increased his donation to $20. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 23:17:41 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:17:41 -0400 Subject: IPV6 questions Message-ID: <20050407231741.GB24779@waltdnes.org> One part of my "playing around on linux project" after I finish my taxes. I think that IStop supports IPV6. This is due to my experience with the "Gentoo install boobytrap". The Gentoo install searches for Gentoo mirrors just *BEFORE* the chroot phase of the install. The live CD finds a bunch of mirrors on IPV6 addresses. Then it chroots. The chrooted environment doesn't support IPV6, so the install dies because it can no longer contact the list of mirrors... dumb, but I digress. So far, I've found two classes of "documentation" about IPV6... - extremely detailed *TECHNICAL SPECS* - dumbed-down "Power Point Presentations for PHBs" What I'm looking for is a documention on the web about *USING* IPV6. For example, how do I set up iptables under IPV6, and other real-world stuff? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 23:19:11 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:19:11 -0400 Subject: LVM questions Message-ID: <20050407231911.GC24779@waltdnes.org> Another part of my "playing around on linux project" after I finish my taxes. I've read the LVM HOWTO/FAQ. I want to confirm that I understand it. Assuming one large hard drive, I need 4 physical partitions... 1) /boot 2) /root 3) swap 4) the rest of the drive Only the 4th partition is actually under LVM. I believe that ReiserFS or ext3 or whatever runs on top of LVM. Is there a speed hit with LVM? Is extent assignment random-access? To illustrate it better, let's assume I start with the following logical partitions... A) 10 gigs B) 20 gigs C) 10 gigs ...can I later delete A and add those 10 gigs to C, even though they're physically separated by intervening logical B? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 23:50:16 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:50:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> <42559DFC.9090507@golden.net> Message-ID: Here is an update on the donations: Donors: David J Patrick $10 William Park $10 Robert Brockway $10 (Held by Robert Brockway) John Myshrall $20 (Held by Robert Brockway) OpenTrend Solutions $60 (Held by Robert Brockway) So I will deliver $90 in donations to whoever is the responsible person handling the purchase of power. I'll need a receipt for the OpenTrend Solutions donation. We're actually $10 over but this may be useful for incidentals relating to the show. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 23:51:07 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:51:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bouncing messages? (not really OT) In-Reply-To: <46317.206.186.8.130.1112808292.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <46317.206.186.8.130.1112808292.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Apr 2005, Francois Ouellette wrote: > Why do we keep getting back messages sent to the TLUG > with a "invalid e-mail address" status? Are you able to forward with full SMTP headers? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 7 23:57:52 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 19:57:52 -0400 Subject: LVM questions In-Reply-To: <20050407231911.GC24779-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407231911.GC24779@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200504071957.52313.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On April 7, 2005 07:19 pm, Walter Dnes wrote: > ? Is extent assignment random-access? ?To illustrate it better, let's > assume I start with the following logical partitions... I doubt that assignment is random. > ? A) 10 gigs > ? B) 20 gigs > ? C) 10 gigs > > ...can I later delete A and add those 10 gigs to C, even though they're > physically separated by intervening logical B? Yes. Also any given volume group can consist of multiple disks so a logical volume could span multiple disks (with gaps if you like as well ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 01:39:06 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 21:39:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT - Laptop memory In-Reply-To: <000b01c53a2a$d0954c90$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000b01c53a2a$d0954c90$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: If you still have this, I'm interested. I'm not absolutely sure that it would work in the notebook (my daughters). Where are you? I'm near Yonge and York Mills. You can phone me any day between 11:00 and 21:00 (of course I'm sometimes out). Hugh Redelmeier hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org voice: +1 416 482-8253 | Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2005 17:59:28 -0400 | From: Francois Ouellette | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Subject: [TLUG]: OT - Laptop memory | | I upgraded my laptop's memory and I have a 128MB SODIMM PC-133 that needs a | new machine... | | It came off a ThinkPad R31 but will also work in many other brands such as | Compaq EVO. | Up for grab at $20, local pickup (or delivery, depending where you live!). | | Contact me outside the board if interested. | | Fran?ois Ouellette | From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 02:59:08 2005 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2005 22:59:08 -0400 Subject: logwatch and kernel messages In-Reply-To: <20050407135556.GA11995-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407125615.GA11684@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200504071328.51683.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050407135556.GA11995@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200504072259.15320.anton@truxtar.com> On April 7, 2005 09:55, William O'Higgins wrote: > On Thu, Apr 07, 2005 at 01:28:51PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > >I have found that most distros do strange things in fstab for USB devices. > > I can't blame a distro for this one - I set up this one myself. > > >This is what I use for my USB devices. Flash keys, digital cameras, SD, > > CF, and it works well. > > > >/dev/sda1 /mnt/sda1 auto noauto,user,rw,async,noatime,umask=0077 0 0 > > > >Worth a look. Check it out. > > What I copied and pasted from a search, without understanding it, is > this: > > /dev/sda1 /mnt/card vfat rw,user,noauto,sync,dirsync 0 0 That says: Mount device "/dev/sda1" on top of the folder "/mnt/card", using a "vfat" filesystem, make it read-write, don't mount it at boot, always sync files and directories (don't cache; less damage if accidentally unplugged). > > I'm not really sure what much of this means. I've read "man mount", and > I've heard about umask, but I don't understand it. It's one of those > "yeah, but what does it mean to *me*" issues. When I get a chance I'll > blindly copy and paste your entry into fstab, tail -f /var/log/messages > and see what happens, but is there a good, hand-holding for the > terminally clueless guide to filesystems somewhere? Thanks. You could try the "Filesystems HOWTO" on the Linux Documentation Project, but I think it talks about the individual filesystems and how to use them, rather than /etc/fstab and mount in general: Your best bet is probably 'man mount' and 'man fstab' > > P.S. Maybe such a guide could tell me why my USB key is always /dev/sda, > but my SD card is always /dev/sda1? I have found the same thing, and I think it depends on the data layout of the card/drive. USB memory sticks look like one big partition (emulated as a scsi tape or zip drive IIRC). CF, SD, and other cards have a partition table, and look like a SCSI hard drive (thus they are assigned sda1, like the first partition on your harddrive). This _may_ be related to the fact that USB drives generate hotplug events, while SD/CF/etc. can't. Note all the "I think" in my answer; if someone knows for sure, please correct me. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 04:55:29 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 00:55:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT - Laptop memory In-Reply-To: References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000b01c53a2a$d0954c90$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: | From: D. Hugh Redelmeier | To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Duh. Sorry. Forgot Reply-To. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 12:02:40 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:02:40 +0000 Subject: IPV6 questions In-Reply-To: <20050407231741.GB24779-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407231741.GB24779@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <200504081202.40437.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 7, 2005 11:17 pm, Walter Dnes wrote: > One part of my "playing around on linux project" after I finish my > taxes. > > I think that IStop supports IPV6. This is due to my experience with > the "Gentoo install boobytrap". The Gentoo install searches for Gentoo > mirrors just *BEFORE* the chroot phase of the install. The live CD > finds a bunch of mirrors on IPV6 addresses. Then it chroots. The > chrooted environment doesn't support IPV6, so the install dies because > it can no longer contact the list of mirrors... dumb, but I digress. > > So far, I've found two classes of "documentation" about IPV6... > - extremely detailed *TECHNICAL SPECS* > - dumbed-down "Power Point Presentations for PHBs" > > What I'm looking for is a documention on the web about *USING* IPV6. > For example, how do I set up iptables under IPV6, and other real-world > stuff? try http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/Linux/docs/HOWTO/other-formats/html_single/Linux+IPv6-HOWTO.html -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 12:44:34 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:44:34 +0000 Subject: USB flash write protect Message-ID: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> I have 2 USB memory sticks that belong to a client that have a strange problem. They are Kingston 512mb Data Traveller thumbdrives. Mysteriously they have acquired "write protected" status, without an external switch on the drive. I have tried a few things under linux for him. Re-partitioning made no difference, nor did the type of partition. Tried hdparm -r 0 /dev/sda1 made no difference. When I try to format the device as fat it seems to work until I try to mount the drives. If I try to format them as ext3 I get back "could not write 8 blocks in inode table starting at 483331: Attempt to write block from filesystem resulted in short write" Has anyone ever run into this before? Searching around on Google resulted in a lot of other people with the same problem, but no solution. Any ideas? -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 12:45:16 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 08:45:16 -0400 Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] Message-ID: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "Robert Brockway" on Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:50 PM wrote: > Here is an update on the donations: > > Donors: > > David J Patrick $10 > William Park $10 > Robert Brockway $10 (Held by Robert Brockway) > John Myshrall $20 (Held by Robert Brockway) > OpenTrend Solutions $60 (Held by Robert Brockway) > > So I will deliver $90 in donations to whoever is the responsible person > handling the purchase of power. > > I'll need a receipt for the OpenTrend Solutions donation. > > We're actually $10 over but this may be useful for incidentals relating to > the show. I sent this message out with the attached the full price list from the convention centre but that may have been caught up in the mailing list's spam filters. If anyone want to see the WHOLE price list, e-mail me and I will send you the .pdf file. In summary here are the numbers we are most concerned about: 800 watt, 120 volt duplex outlet, approx. 6 amps (E800) - Rear of Booth - $131.00 1500 watt, 120 volt duplex outlet, approx. 12 amps (E1500) - Rear of Booth - $149.00 15 amp, 120 volt duplex outlet, (CS120115) - Rear of Booth - $175.00 24 hour, 15 amp, 120 volt duplex outlet, (E150024) - Rear of Booth - $225.00 These prices do NOT include GST... (i.e. the $131 will in reality be $140.17, etc...). Now, since the plan is to work with laptops the 800 watt option should be good enough, and the 24 hour service excessive... Other donation news I have had word back from the Ubuntu Linux people, and with a little bit of luck we will have lots of copies of Ubuntu to give away at the show !!! Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 13:12:22 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 09:12:22 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> <42559DFC.9090507@golden.net> Message-ID: <42568336.708@sympatico.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: >OpenTrend Solutions is donating the remaining $60. > > Bravo OpenTrend ! However it seems as though there remains opportunity for others to be a part of all this giving, as Colin has just posted the GST-enhanced bottom line = 140.17, so.. operators are standing by ... >Donators: > >David J Patrick $10 >Robert Brockway $10 >William Park $10 >John Myshrall $10 >OpenTrend Solutions $60 > >Who should the money be delivered to? > > Can we slap the dough into somebodies hand at the TLUG quipfest, on Tuesday ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 14:01:04 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:01:04 -0400 Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050408140104.GA1923@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 08:45:16AM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Other donation news I have had word back from the Ubuntu Linux people, > and with a little bit of luck we will have lots of copies of Ubuntu to > give away at the show !!! This is the best news yet. Excellent! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 14:49:36 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 10:49:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: If more donations are needed, and if someone would put out a donations box at the next meeting (or stand up and wave their arms around yelling "Collecting donations!") I will cough up some cash. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mike-DlQxw/23Tq2aMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 15:35:19 2005 From: mike-DlQxw/23Tq2aMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Mike Waychison) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 11:35:19 -0400 Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <4256A4B7.3040007@waychison.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John Vetterli wrote: > If more donations are needed, and if someone would put out a donations > box at the next meeting (or stand up and wave their arms around yelling > "Collecting donations!") I will cough up some cash. > Okay, so I haven't been following the whole 'incorporated' TLUG thing, but isn't this a case where they'd be able to step in? I mean, usually when you go to a tradeshow or place an exhibit, many places will require that each booth get some form of insurance as well as possibly pay for some facilities. Isn't the purpose of forming an NPO to be able to handle these kinds of fees? Maybe I missed the point of incorporating TLUG. Mike Waychison -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFCVqS2dQs4kOxk3/MRAv5WAKCYGiT9Efgopl+fbAQKH6fwLymntgCggXQo 1Ie2wE4Bq8qQQabPzF6Jv0A= =z5R+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 16:03:42 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:03:42 +0300 (IDT) Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <200504081244.34463.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: > I have 2 USB memory sticks that belong to a client that have a strange > problem. I have been warned by merchants not to format certain usb keys because things like you describe are known to happen. I do not know about your make. My theory: the flash memory inside has some protection registers which can be set to enable write protection. When you format the drive you set a combination of write protect bits that cannot be erased using known means. Apparently the manufacturer-supplied software can recover some such drives but I am not sure about which make and I have no direct experience with it. The merchant's warning is clear, though. I have had no problems with no-name drives. hope this helps, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 16:08:20 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:08:20 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050408160820.GA2783@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 07:03:42PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: > > >I have 2 USB memory sticks that belong to a client that have a strange > >problem. > > I have been warned by merchants not to format certain usb keys because > things like you describe are known to happen. I do not know about your > make. What brands of USB key did the merchants warned you about? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 16:55:03 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 12:55:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > If more donations are needed, and if someone would put out a donations box at > the next meeting (or stand up and wave their arms around yelling "Collecting > donations!") I will cough up some cash. > > JV > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Yes it looks like we're about $30 short based on Colin's email. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ulf.kellermann-IcexAN+8CcBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 17:08:30 2005 From: ulf.kellermann-IcexAN+8CcBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ulf Kellermann) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 13:08:30 -0400 Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <200504081308.30603.ulf.kellermann@exaecon.com> $10 from me Ulf Kellermann On Friday 08 April 2005 12:55, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > > If more donations are needed, and if someone would put out a donations > > box at the next meeting (or stand up and wave their arms around yelling > > "Collecting donations!") I will cough up some cash. > > > > JV > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > Yes it looks like we're about $30 short based on Colin's email. > > Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 17:38:47 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 20:38:47 +0300 (IDT) Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <20050408160820.GA2783-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050408160820.GA2783@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 07:03:42PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> >> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: >> >>> I have 2 USB memory sticks that belong to a client that have a strange >>> problem. >> >> I have been warned by merchants not to format certain usb keys because >> things like you describe are known to happen. I do not know about your >> make. > > What brands of USB key did the merchants warned you about? I do not remember, but for example the one I use almost daily, is from Z-Cyber (?) and I was warned not to format it, but I did format it several times and nothing bad happened. I think the 'don't format' recommendation is like the 'don't let it get wet' recommendation. It's a folklore thing. But I work with hardware and I *know* that the setting of write lock bits could occur with certain bit patterns and certain kinds of flash chips. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 19:00:28 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:00:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Donations In-Reply-To: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: The latest on the donations: Donors: David J Patrick $10 William Park $10 Robert Brockway $10 (Held by Robert Brockway) John Myshrall $20 (Held by Robert Brockway) OpenTrend Solutions $60 (Held by Robert Brockway) Ulf Kellermann $10 I have also just been contacted by a represenative of another firm who has also offered to make a donation. I'll update when this is finalised. Each person offering to make a donation has the responsibility to get it to either Colin or myself (I will delivery the donations I am holding to Colin). Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 19:04:34 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:04:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Donations Message-ID: Tenth Power Inc has kindly offered to donate $100 so the updated list is: Donors: David J Patrick $10 William Park $10 Robert Brockway $10 (Held by Robert Brockway) John Myshrall $20 (Held by Robert Brockway) OpenTrend Solutions $60 (Held by Robert Brockway) Ulf Kellermann $10 Tenth Power Inc $100 (Cheque being sent to Robert Brockway) Each person offering to make a donation has the responsibility to get it to either Colin or myself (I will delivery the donations I am holding to Colin). Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 19:05:53 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 15:05:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Booth at Linux World Canada Message-ID: <20050408190553.76710.qmail@web88210.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Went throught the stuff down at G.T.C.C. looking at trade show stuff. What I found was a kit designed to equipe a 20 foot by 10 foot booth (twice the size of the boot we are to have). In the end I ended up laying out a 10 foot by 10 foot booth and came up with the following: http://www.learn.ca/tlug/index.html You will see tape marks noting the outside limits of the booth, and in some of the pictures you will see to the far right some of the left-over parts. The laptops were not working and just put in place to gice some idea as to possible positions. Similar story with the paper, just tossed in to give an idea of size... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 20:01:46 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 16:01:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Donations In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050408200146.29244.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> This is excellent. So, the plan will be to get power, and couver the cost of running of a few thousand copies of a sheet promoting TLUG (currently being drafted by Chris Johnson). --- Robert Brockway wrote: > Tenth Power Inc has kindly offered to donate $100 so > the updated list is: > > Donors: > > David J Patrick $10 > William Park $10 > Robert Brockway $10 (Held by Robert Brockway) > John Myshrall $20 (Held by Robert Brockway) > OpenTrend Solutions $60 (Held by Robert Brockway) > Ulf Kellermann $10 > Tenth Power Inc $100 (Cheque being sent to Robert > Brockway) > > Each person offering to make a donation has the > responsibility to get it > to either Colin or myself (I will delivery the > donations I am holding to > Colin). > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. > Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions > Ltd. > Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: > rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net > OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to > real world problems. > Contributing Member of Software in the Public > Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 22:59:24 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 18:59:24 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform Message-ID: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> A question that came up at last evening's planning meeting, how do we make ourselves look distinctive at the Linux World Canada show? Gordon Chillcott was recommending Tux ties, others have suggested polo shirts or t-shirts with penguins. I'm not sure what to suggest. What I do know is the following: - 2 years ago when we had a booth we went for the jacket and tie look for the men, and the one woman who got involved (Stephanie Fox) skirt and jacket. It all turned out to be embarrassingly over the top in my books. - If we go with a dress code/uniform it should be fairly unisex (another reason why I am somewhat leery of ties). - It should look neat semi-professional. I did some quick checks on my way home today and found on quantities of 10 we can get white polo shirts with a generic penguin image and some lettering for $17.99 each from a shop on Queen St. (order would have to be placed by next Tuesday). The T-Rack store in the Eaton Centre (on quantities of 10) can get us a generic penguin motif ties for $21.00 each. Other thoughts/options? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 8 23:30:54 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 19:30:54 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 06:59:24PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I did some quick checks on my way home today and found on quantities of 10 > we can get white polo shirts with a generic penguin image and some lettering > for $17.99 each from a shop on Queen St. (order would have to be placed by > next Tuesday). The T-Rack store in the Eaton Centre (on quantities of 10) > can get us a generic penguin motif ties for $21.00 each. > > Other thoughts/options? Waste of money. They won't remember us for how we dress, but rather what we give out. Freebies, freebies, freebies... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 00:11:29 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 20:11:29 -0400 Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <42571DB1.80008@rogers.com> Colin McGregor wrote: > "Robert Brockway" on Thursday, April 07, 2005 7:50 > PM wrote: > > >>Here is an update on the donations: >> >>Donors: >> >>David J Patrick $10 >>William Park $10 >>Robert Brockway $10 (Held by Robert Brockway) >>John Myshrall $20 (Held by Robert Brockway) >>OpenTrend Solutions $60 (Held by Robert Brockway) >> >>So I will deliver $90 in donations to whoever is the responsible person >>handling the purchase of power. >> >>I'll need a receipt for the OpenTrend Solutions donation. >> >>We're actually $10 over but this may be useful for incidentals relating to >>the show. > > > I sent this message out with the attached the full price list from the > convention centre but that may have been caught up in the mailing list's > spam filters. If anyone want to see the WHOLE price list, e-mail me and I > will send you the .pdf file. In summary here are the numbers we are most > concerned about: > > 800 watt, 120 volt duplex outlet, approx. 6 amps (E800) - Rear of Booth - > $131.00 > 1500 watt, 120 volt duplex outlet, approx. 12 amps (E1500) - Rear of Booth - > $149.00 > 15 amp, 120 volt duplex outlet, (CS120115) - Rear of Booth - $175.00 > 24 hour, 15 amp, 120 volt duplex outlet, (E150024) - Rear of Booth - $225.00 I didn't know they paid so much for electricity. That 800W package is more than my condo electricity bill for two months! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 00:20:01 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 20:20:01 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <42571FB1.5050405@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: > >> I have 2 USB memory sticks that belong to a client that have a strange >> problem. > > > I have been warned by merchants not to format certain usb keys because > things like you describe are known to happen. I do not know about your > make. > > My theory: the flash memory inside has some protection registers which > can be set to enable write protection. When you format the drive you set > a combination of write protect bits that cannot be erased using known > means. Apparently the manufacturer-supplied software can recover some > such drives but I am not sure about which make and I have no direct > experience with it. The merchant's warning is clear, though. I have had > no problems with no-name drives. I've never heard of that, and one thing I've learned in life, is to not believe what store clerks tell you. ;-) Incidentally, I reformatted mine to FAT32 recently. Works fine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 01:12:26 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 21:12:26 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <00af01c53ca1$3153bda0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> From: "William Park" on Friday, April 08, 2005 7:30 PM wrote: > On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 06:59:24PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > I did some quick checks on my way home today and found on quantities of 10 > > we can get white polo shirts with a generic penguin image and some lettering > > for $17.99 each from a shop on Queen St. (order would have to be placed by > > next Tuesday). The T-Rack store in the Eaton Centre (on quantities of 10) > > can get us a generic penguin motif ties for $21.00 each. > > > > Other thoughts/options? > > Waste of money. They won't remember us for how we dress, but rather > what we give out. Freebies, freebies, freebies... Well, if they do remember us for how we dress it likely means we have done something very right, or more likely something very wrong. I was in New Orleans in 1988 for a Science Fiction convention, and I still remember some of the people because of how they dressed. There was one woman who I saw on the streets of New Orleans (she was attending the convention), and she was wearing a chain mail bikini with nothing behind the chain mail (for those of you who don't what chain mail is, it is an early type of armour, made from lots of tiny interlocking metal rings, how anyone could wear that over some of the most sensitive parts of the body without any protection I don't know...). The other folks I remember from New Orleans were a group of about a dozen big husky guys (looked like they could have been truck drivers) all wearing pink tutus... If we let our leader Drew Sulivan decide dress code I assume it would involve black leather, handcuffs, and whips... So, the question is can we do this right, distinctive, positive, etc.. Or do we just say "dress casual", i.e. polo/golf shirt... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 03:52:34 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:52:34 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <42575182.4040208@sympatico.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >A question that came up at last evening's planning meeting, how do we make >ourselves look distinctive at the Linux World Canada show? tif ties for $21.00 each. > >Other thoughts/options? > > labcoats and pocket protectors and coke-bottle glasses ? battery powered propeller beanies ? a "commune" theme, with bongos, ponchos and Mexican blankets ? black body stockings with velcroed peripheral weaponry ala code ninjas ? official TLUG t-shirts ? (the latter ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 03:59:27 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:59:27 -0400 Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: <42571DB1.80008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42571DB1.80008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4257531F.3040906@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > > I didn't know they paid so much for electricity. That 800W package is > more than my condo electricity bill for two months! well we ARE a high powered, dynamically charged group of individuals ! ps. if we be payin for 800w we better use it ! Maybe some disco lights ? A 1/2hp motor spinning something big ? a heater ? no, wait.. air conditioner ! yeah ! > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 04:02:26 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 00:02:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <20050408233054.GA27606-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 06:59:24PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > I did some quick checks on my way home today and found on quantities of 10 > > we can get white polo shirts with a generic penguin image and some lettering > > for $17.99 each from a shop on Queen St. (order would have to be placed by > > next Tuesday). The T-Rack store in the Eaton Centre (on quantities of 10) > > can get us a generic penguin motif ties for $21.00 each. > > > > Other thoughts/options? > > Waste of money. They won't remember us for how we dress, but rather > what we give out. Freebies, freebies, freebies... Agreed. Besides the penguin represents just about everyone present. It'd be different if we were holding a stall at a non-Linux event. Just my 20,000,000 rubles. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 04:09:32 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 04:09:32 +0000 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <42575182.4040208-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42575182.4040208@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200504090409.32820.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 9, 2005 03:52 am, David J Patrick wrote: > Colin McGregor wrote: > >A question that came up at last evening's planning meeting, how do we make > >ourselves look distinctive at the Linux World Canada show? tif ties for > > $21.00 each. > > > >Other thoughts/options? > > labcoats and pocket protectors and coke-bottle glasses ? > battery powered propeller beanies ? > a "commune" theme, with bongos, ponchos and Mexican blankets ? > black body stockings with velcroed peripheral weaponry ala code ninjas ? > > official TLUG t-shirts ? > (the latter ;-) > djp The perfect linux related uniform. http://www.akrondesign.com/Mascots/marylens/mascots/penguins1.html Sorry. Had to be done. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 04:12:42 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:12:42 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <200504090409.32820.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42575182.4040208@sympatico.ca> <200504090409.32820.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <4257563A.3010006@sympatico.ca> Jason Shein wrote: >The perfect linux related uniform. > >http://www.akrondesign.com/Mascots/marylens/mascots/penguins1.html > DONE ! we'll out-penguin the lot of 'em ! let's see.. there's maybe six of us at any given time.. at ~$1100ea .. that's.. hmmm! did I mention I'd throw in $10 ?? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 09:13:20 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:13:20 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: <4257531F.3040906-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42571DB1.80008@rogers.com> <4257531F.3040906@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__17531.4655331478$1113054146$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > James Knott wrote: > >> >> I didn't know they paid so much for electricity. That 800W package is >> more than my condo electricity bill for two months! > > well we ARE a high powered, dynamically charged group of individuals ! > > ps. if we be payin for 800w we better use it ! > Maybe some disco lights ? > A 1/2hp motor spinning something big ? > a heater ? > no, wait.. air conditioner ! yeah ! I think that they expect extravagant lighting, like several 1kW halogen projectors lighting up a banner all the time plus the normal devices and lights. Lighting will run up a bill quite quickly. Say you have 2 exposed booth sides and need to light the banner on each with 2x1kW that's 4kW continuous for 2 days and 12 hours each (I am making assumptions). This alone works out to nearly 100kWh which could be almost the monthly consumption of a one-bedroom apartment. And 2x1kW may not be enough, since one is aiming to make the banners as bright as if they were illuminated by the sun. The goal is to make the object as bright or comparably bright to any other object the potential visitor can see while looking inside from the outside in daylight, so it can compete favorably for his attention. Without this any clever banners and graphics are a waste of time. This is why supermarkets etc are lit so garishly. But be assured that someone makes money on that contract. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 12:03:07 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 08:03:07 -0400 Subject: Supressing password request from 'sudo' In-Reply-To: <20050403173000.GA31337-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <425025B9.9040002@alteeve.com> <20050403173000.GA31337@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4257C47B.9010007@rogers.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > To use sudo without requiring a password, but something like the > following in your sudoers file (with visudo, usually): > > username ALL=NOPASSWD:/path/to/command > > That works for me. I find that I have to enter the password, the first time I use sudo. Is there any way around that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 16:33:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 12:33:11 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 12:02:26AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Waste of money. They won't remember us for how we dress, but rather > > what we give out. Freebies, freebies, freebies... > > Agreed. Besides the penguin represents just about everyone present. > It'd be different if we were holding a stall at a non-Linux event. > > Just my 20,000,000 rubles. Do any of us know any pornstars willing to appear at our booth? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 16:51:46 2005 From: lr1003-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Yang) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 09:51:46 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Java on Mandrake In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050409165146.94529.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Hello all, I have just installed the JRE 1.4 on Mandrake 10.1. The jave directory is /usr/java/j2re..., however when I point the path in Opera or other Browser, Java applet on the web can not be recognized. I have checked the mandrake site and it mentioned a script under /etc/profile.d, however I didn't find the scirpt after installation. 'Which java' reported nothing found (under 'su'). I appreciate someone point me to the right direction. By the way, any recommendations for a realiable BT Torrent client under Linux? Have a good weekend everyone, Michael __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 17:25:26 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 13:25:26 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <200504081244.34463.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050409172526.GA2393@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 12:44:34PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > I have 2 USB memory sticks that belong to a client that have a strange > problem. > > They are Kingston 512mb Data Traveller thumbdrives. > > Mysteriously they have acquired "write protected" status, without an external > switch on the drive. > > I have tried a few things under linux for him. Re-partitioning made no > difference, nor did the type of partition. > > Tried hdparm -r 0 /dev/sda1 made no difference. > > When I try to format the device as fat it seems to work until I try to mount > the drives. If I try to format them as ext3 I get back "could not write 8 > blocks in inode table starting at 483331: Attempt to write block from > filesystem resulted in short write" > > Has anyone ever run into this before? Searching around on Google resulted in a > lot of other people with the same problem, but no solution. > > Any ideas? Try manually, dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 fdisk /dev/sda # partition it to your need mkdosfs /dev/sdaX mount /dev/sdaX /mnt/hd -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 17:48:48 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:48:48 -0400 Subject: Donations [was Re:Linux World Canada Planning meeting] In-Reply-To: <6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs@public.gmane.org> References: <009601c53c38$d0c78920$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <42571DB1.80008@rogers.com> <4257531F.3040906@sympatico.ca> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Message-ID: <42581580.7090003@rogers.com> Peter wrote: > > > On Fri, 8 Apr 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > >> James Knott wrote: >> >>> >>> I didn't know they paid so much for electricity. That 800W package is >>> more than my condo electricity bill for two months! >> >> >> well we ARE a high powered, dynamically charged group of individuals ! >> >> ps. if we be payin for 800w we better use it ! >> Maybe some disco lights ? >> A 1/2hp motor spinning something big ? >> a heater ? >> no, wait.. air conditioner ! yeah ! > > > I think that they expect extravagant lighting, like several 1kW halogen > projectors lighting up a banner all the time plus the normal devices and > lights. Lighting will run up a bill quite quickly. Say you have 2 > exposed booth sides and need to light the banner on each with 2x1kW > that's 4kW continuous for 2 days and 12 hours each (I am making > assumptions). This alone works out to nearly 100kWh which could be > almost the monthly consumption of a one-bedroom apartment. And 2x1kW may > not be enough, since one is aiming to make the banners as bright as if > they were illuminated by the sun. The goal is to make the object as > bright or comparably bright to any other object the potential visitor > can see while looking inside from the outside in daylight, so it can > compete favorably for his attention. Without this any clever banners and > graphics are a waste of time. This is why supermarkets etc are lit so > garishly. But be assured that someone makes money on that contract. All that, with a single 800W outlet??? That's little more than half of what a single household circuit supports. As I mentioned, for the cost of the lowest price option, I could power my entire condo for two months. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 17:52:41 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 13:52:41 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <20050409163311.GA1980-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 12:02:26AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > >>>Waste of money. They won't remember us for how we dress, but rather >>>what we give out. Freebies, freebies, freebies... >> >>Agreed. Besides the penguin represents just about everyone present. >>It'd be different if we were holding a stall at a non-Linux event. >> >>Just my 20,000,000 rubles. > > > Do any of us know any pornstars willing to appear at our booth? > That's what we need.... Booth Bunnies! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 18:02:29 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:02:29 -0400 Subject: Java on Mandrake In-Reply-To: <20050409165146.94529.qmail-fizLuMQkVWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050409165146.94529.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200504091402.29543.marc@lijour.net> On April 9, 2005 12:51, Michael Yang wrote: > Hello all, > > I have just installed the JRE 1.4 on Mandrake 10.1. The jave directory is > /usr/java/j2re..., however when I point the path in Opera or other Browser, > Java applet on the web can not be recognized. I have checked the mandrake > site and it mentioned a script under /etc/profile.d, however I didn't find > the scirpt after installation. 'Which java' reported nothing found (under > 'su'). I appreciate someone point me to the right direction. It is because you are not supposed to run java as root. Try which java as a regular user and it will work. If you absolutely want java as root add this at the end of /root/.bashrc : PATH=(....don't touch this):/usr/lib64/jdk-1.4.2/bin/java I have an AMD64 but put there the output you get from which java done as a regular user. And you should not run a browser, and even less applets, as root. > > By the way, any recommendations for a realiable BT Torrent client under > Linux? > > Have a good weekend everyone, > > Michael > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 18:05:21 2005 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:05:21 -0400 Subject: Java on Mandrake In-Reply-To: <20050409165146.94529.qmail-fizLuMQkVWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050409165146.94529.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200504091405.25185.anton@truxtar.com> On April 9, 2005 12:51, Michael Yang wrote: > Hello all, > > I have just installed the JRE 1.4 on Mandrake 10.1. The jave directory is > /usr/java/j2re..., however when I point the path in Opera or other Browser, > Java applet on the web can not be recognized. I have checked the mandrake > site and it mentioned a script under /etc/profile.d, however I didn't find > the scirpt after installation. 'Which java' reported nothing found (under > 'su'). I appreciate someone point me to the right direction. You have to put a link to the java plugin into your browser's plugin directory. For mozilla, link '/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_03/plugin/i386/ns610-gcc32/libjavaplugin_oji.so' to '/usr/lib/mozilla/plugins' You may have to adjust the first path for your jre version and compiler. Also, add '/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_03/bin' to your $PATH by putting a line like this in your ~.bashrc file: export PATH=$PATH:/usr/java/j2re1.4.2_03/bin > > By the way, any recommendations for a realiable BT Torrent client under > Linux? 'Azureus' is the most nice-looking and feature-rich client I have seen, but it is written in Java (which you are having problems with, and has stopped working for me too!) Currently, I use the Linux 'Bittornado' client: It has all the necessairy features (including selecting individual files to download), but is not as intuitive as Azureus. However, this is probably my recommendation. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 18:07:48 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:07:48 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <42581669.1030908-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 01:52:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > >Do any of us know any pornstars willing to appear at our booth? > > That's what we need.... Booth Bunnies! ;-) We should pass around a collection at the next TLUG meeting, so that we could pay for some sex appeal. Colin, what do you think? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 18:17:40 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 14:17:40 -0400 Subject: What is swapping/paging? Message-ID: <200504091417.40874.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, I'm trying to figure out what processes are paging out, ps shows nothing swapped out. The reason that I'm curious is that I have several servers with 4 GB RAM where more than 2GB of RAM are free (well, used by caching) but most of swap (900MB) is used up. Interactive performance on the machines is just fine but I still want to understand what is happening. pmap looked like one way to get an answer but I'm not sure how to interpret the output ... I get this (as an example): 1: init [2] Address Kbytes Mode Offset Device Mapping 08048000 28 r-x-- 0000000000000000 0fd:00000 init 0804f000 4 rw--- 0000000000007000 0fd:00000 init 08050000 132 rw--- 0000000008050000 000:00000 [ anon ] b7e9a000 4 rw--- 00000000b7e9a000 000:00000 [ anon ] b7e9b000 1188 r-x-- 0000000000000000 0fd:00000 libc-2.3.2.so b7fc4000 32 rw--- 0000000000129000 0fd:00000 libc-2.3.2.so b7fcc000 12 rw--- 00000000b7fcc000 000:00000 [ anon ] b7fe9000 4 rw--- 00000000b7fe9000 000:00000 [ anon ] b7fea000 88 r-x-- 0000000000000000 0fd:00000 ld-2.3.2.so b8000000 4 rw--- 0000000000015000 0fd:00000 ld-2.3.2.so bffff000 4 rw--- 00000000bffff000 000:00000 [ stack ] ffffe000 4 ----- 0000000000000000 000:00000 [ anon ] mapped: 1504K writeable/private: 196K shared: 0K What is "Device" referring to? My swap is LV on MD, partition type FD (raid autodetect) so I thought 0fd:00000 might be referring to my swap device however after checking against another machine that assumption doesn't hold true. I haven't been able to come up with a list of unique address/offset/device entries that add up to anywhere close to my swap usage ... am I barking up the wrong tree entirely, are there other ways to find out what's in swap? I've been reading a lot about unix paging, swapping, etc. this morning but nothing I've found seems to answer the fundamental question, what's in swap. Pointers to the correct docs would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 18:28:17 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:28:17 +0000 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <20050409172526.GA2393-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409172526.GA2393@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 9, 2005 05:25 pm, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Apr 08, 2005 at 12:44:34PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > > I have 2 USB memory sticks that belong to a client that have a strange > > problem. > > > > They are Kingston 512mb Data Traveller thumbdrives. > > > > Mysteriously they have acquired "write protected" status, without an > > external switch on the drive. > > > > I have tried a few things under linux for him. Re-partitioning made no > > difference, nor did the type of partition. > > > > Tried hdparm -r 0 /dev/sda1 made no difference. > > > > When I try to format the device as fat it seems to work until I try to > > mount the drives. If I try to format them as ext3 I get back "could not > > write 8 blocks in inode table starting at 483331: Attempt to write block > > from filesystem resulted in short write" > > > > Has anyone ever run into this before? Searching around on Google resulted > > in a lot of other people with the same problem, but no solution. > > > > Any ideas? > > Try manually, > > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 > fdisk /dev/sda # partition it to your need > mkdosfs /dev/sdaX > mount /dev/sdaX /mnt/hd Thats what I tried in the first place. It always seems to work, but then when you try to mount it it returns: mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, missing codepage or other error In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try dmesg | tail or so even when I specify the filesystem type. Really funny thing I found out though. Just for kicks, I thought I would try it on a WinXP machine. It says the filesystem is not formatted, so would I like to format it. I select yes, then I watch in amazement as it starts to format the stick. 10%...30%....60%...100%...120%..145%...ERROR -> huh? I think I have to get a screenshot of this one. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 18:46:48 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 21:46:48 +0300 (IDT) Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <200504091828.17133.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409172526.GA2393@node1.opengeometry.net> <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__19581.7926236943$1113072262$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Sat, 9 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: >> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 >> fdisk /dev/sda # partition it to your need >> mkdosfs /dev/sdaX >> mount /dev/sdaX /mnt/hd > > Thats what I tried in the first place. Try again but fill the entire device this time. I'm not saying it will work. What might work is to copy the boot block from an identical device using dd as above. I don't know where the setting bits are. > Really funny thing I found out though. Just for kicks, I thought I would try > it on a WinXP machine. It says the filesystem is not formatted, so would I > like to format it. I select yes, then I watch in amazement as it starts to > format the stick. 10%...30%....60%...100%...120%..145%...ERROR -> huh? I > think I have to get a screenshot of this one. What's so funny about the other camp paying no attention to safe/defensive programming ? (what else is new)? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 18:56:20 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:56:20 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <200504091828.17133.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409172526.GA2393@node1.opengeometry.net> <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <42582554.1010202@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > Really funny thing I found out though. Just for kicks, I thought I would try > it on a WinXP machine. It says the filesystem is not formatted, so would I > like to format it. I select yes, then I watch in amazement as it starts to > format the stick. 10%...30%....60%...100%...120%..145%...ERROR -> huh? I > think I have to get a screenshot of this one. > > I saw something similar with Ghost recently. While saving an image, it would go beyond 100% and have negative amounts of time and data remaining. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 19:15:32 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 19:15:32 +0000 Subject: Java on Mandrake In-Reply-To: <20050409165146.94529.qmail-fizLuMQkVWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050409165146.94529.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200504091915.32910.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 9, 2005 04:51 pm, Michael Yang wrote: > By the way, any recommendations for a realiable BT Torrent client under > Linux? > http://www.bittornado.com/download.html Works extremely well under Linux or the dark side. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 19:18:36 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:18:36 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <200504091828.17133.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409172526.GA2393@node1.opengeometry.net> <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050409191836.GA4290@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 06:28:17PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > On April 9, 2005 05:25 pm, William Park wrote: > > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 > > fdisk /dev/sda # partition it to your need > > mkdosfs /dev/sdaX > > mount /dev/sdaX /mnt/hd > > Thats what I tried in the first place. > > It always seems to work, but then when you try to mount it it returns: > > mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, > missing codepage or other error > In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try > dmesg | tail or so > > > even when I specify the filesystem type. > > Really funny thing I found out though. Just for kicks, I thought I > would try it on a WinXP machine. It says the filesystem is not > formatted, so would I like to format it. I select yes, then I watch in > amazement as it starts to format the stick. > 10%...30%....60%...100%...120%..145%...ERROR -> huh? I think I have to > get a screenshot of this one. Then, nuke the fucking thing... cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda mkdosfs -I /dev/sda mount /dev/sda /mnt/hd Note: use the whole device /dev/sda, rather than one of its partition. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 19:31:26 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 19:31:26 +0000 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <20050409191836.GA4290-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409191836.GA4290@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200504091931.26603.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 9, 2005 07:18 pm, William Park wrote: > Then, nuke the fucking thing... > > cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda > mkdosfs -I /dev/sda > mount /dev/sda /mnt/hd > > Note: use the whole device /dev/sda, rather than one of its partition. # cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda cat: write error: Input/output error Stubborn little thing. I think that these units are for decorative purposes only now. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 19:24:45 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:24:45 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <20050409191836.GA4290-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409172526.GA2393@node1.opengeometry.net> <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409191836.GA4290@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050409192445.GA4365@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 03:18:36PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 06:28:17PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > > On April 9, 2005 05:25 pm, William Park wrote: > > > dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=512 count=1 > > > fdisk /dev/sda # partition it to your need > > > mkdosfs /dev/sdaX > > > mount /dev/sdaX /mnt/hd > > > > Thats what I tried in the first place. > > > > It always seems to work, but then when you try to mount it it returns: > > > > mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/sda1, > > missing codepage or other error > > In some cases useful info is found in syslog - try > > dmesg | tail or so > > > > > > even when I specify the filesystem type. > > > > Really funny thing I found out though. Just for kicks, I thought I > > would try it on a WinXP machine. It says the filesystem is not > > formatted, so would I like to format it. I select yes, then I watch in > > amazement as it starts to format the stick. > > 10%...30%....60%...100%...120%..145%...ERROR -> huh? I think I have to > > get a screenshot of this one. > > Then, nuke the fucking thing... > > cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda Or, badblocks -wsv /dev/sda > mkdosfs -I /dev/sda > mount /dev/sda /mnt/hd > > Note: use the whole device /dev/sda, rather than one of its partition. > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > Slackware Linux -- because it works. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 19:30:31 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 15:30:31 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <200504091931.26603.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409191836.GA4290@node1.opengeometry.net> <200504091931.26603.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050409193031.GA4404@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 07:31:26PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > # cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda > cat: write error: Input/output error > > Stubborn little thing. > > I think that these units are for decorative purposes only now. Are you seeing these in all your Kingston USB keys? Or, just this one? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 20:35:43 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 20:35:43 +0000 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <20050409193031.GA4404-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200504091931.26603.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409193031.GA4404@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200504092035.43476.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 9, 2005 07:30 pm, William Park wrote: > > Are you seeing these in all your Kingston USB keys? Or, just this one? 2 identical Kingston units that belong to a customer. KUSBOTI/512 Both went bad on the same day, on different XP machines. Seems likely that a Microsoft driver update probably did it. He should have been using Linux. When will people learn. ;) -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 20:56:36 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 16:56:36 -0400 Subject: USB flash write protect In-Reply-To: <200504091931.26603.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504081244.34463.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <200504091828.17133.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050409191836.GA4290@node1.opengeometry.net> <200504091931.26603.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <42584184.9040803@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > On April 9, 2005 07:18 pm, William Park wrote: > > >>Then, nuke the fucking thing... >> >> cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda >> mkdosfs -I /dev/sda >> mount /dev/sda /mnt/hd >> >>Note: use the whole device /dev/sda, rather than one of its partition. > > > # cat /dev/zero > /dev/sda > cat: write error: Input/output error > > Stubborn little thing. > > I think that these units are for decorative purposes only now. > > Perhaps a nice pair of earrings, for some lucky girl! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 22:00:31 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2005 18:00:31 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <000d01c53d4f$8cad3740$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "William Park" on Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:07 PM wrote: > On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 01:52:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > William Park wrote: > > >Do any of us know any pornstars willing to appear at our booth? > > > > That's what we need.... Booth Bunnies! ;-) > > We should pass around a collection at the next TLUG meeting, so that we > could pay for some sex appeal. > > Colin, what do you think? During the 1960s a study was done where pictures of attractive young women draped across the hoods of various cars were presented to various guys. The pictures were taken away and the guys were asked to describe the women, which they did well at. The guys were then asked to name the make and model of the cars that were in the pictures, a task which the guys bombed out on. Point being we are attempting to push T.L.U.G. first, our (intellectual) talents second and we do NOT want to get "off message". So, sorry, but NO pornstars!!! Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 22:42:43 2005 From: nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jay) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:42:43 -0400 Subject: Java on Mandrake In-Reply-To: <200504091915.32910.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050409165146.94529.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> <200504091915.32910.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <42585A63.3020003@sympatico.ca> Jason Shein wrote: >On April 9, 2005 04:51 pm, Michael Yang wrote: > > > >>By the way, any recommendations for a realiable BT Torrent client under >>Linux? >> >> >> > >http://www.bittornado.com/download.html > >Works extremely well under Linux or the dark side. > > > > I am using Azureus with much success under "Mandriva Special Edition 2005 RC2". Gotta love the new name... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 22:43:47 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:43:47 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <20050409180748.GA2716-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42585AA3.4010708@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: > >We should pass around a collection at the next TLUG meeting, so that we >could pay for some sex appeal. > > What are you talking about ? Purring hard drives and flushed buffers... We GOT sex appeal ! oh.. you mean /hiring/ hotties ? you might have something there.. yellow pages.. command line cuties.. nope .. hardware hunks .. nuthin.. Oh well, it's back to geeks in t-shirts ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 22:59:21 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 18:59:21 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <42585AA3.4010708-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> <42585AA3.4010708@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42585E49.3080801@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > William Park wrote: > > >>We should pass around a collection at the next TLUG meeting, so that we >>could pay for some sex appeal. >> >> > > What are you talking about ? Purring hard drives and flushed buffers... > We GOT sex appeal ! > > oh.. you mean /hiring/ hotties ? > you might have something there.. > > yellow pages.. command line cuties.. nope .. hardware hunks .. nuthin.. > > Oh well, it's back to geeks in t-shirts ! Hubba Hubba... ;-) Don't forget to leave some cold pizza slices and empty Jolt cans scattered around, to create that "hacker" atmosphere. (A few unwashed socks might help here ) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 9 23:14:43 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 19:14:43 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <42585E49.3080801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> <42585AA3.4010708@sympatico.ca> <42585E49.3080801@rogers.com> Message-ID: <425861E3.9080801@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > Hubba Hubba... ;-) > > Don't forget to leave some cold pizza slices and empty Jolt cans > scattered around, to create that "hacker" atmosphere. (A few unwashed > socks might help here ) puleeze ! I think I'm gonna flip my bits ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 00:02:29 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 09 Apr 2005 20:02:29 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <425861E3.9080801-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> <42585AA3.4010708@sympatico.ca> <42585E49.3080801@rogers.com> <425861E3.9080801@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42586D15.8030604@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > >>Hubba Hubba... ;-) >> >>Don't forget to leave some cold pizza slices and empty Jolt cans >>scattered around, to create that "hacker" atmosphere. (A few unwashed >>socks might help here ) > > > puleeze ! I think I'm gonna flip my bits ! Please, try not to get too excited. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 05:33:28 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 05:33:28 +0000 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> Message-ID: <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:12:06 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Knowing what the competition is saying about what you are selling is a good > > thing. It is even sweeter if the competition pays for you to find out:) > -- > Regards, > > Clifford Ilkay The dinner is this Thursday and with the possibility of the TTC striking, my transportation might have just done out the door. Anyone know how I might be able to get down there? -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 20:35:59 2005 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:35:59 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f05041013356901c2be@mail.gmail.com> > The dinner is this Thursday and with the possibility of the TTC > striking, my transportation might have just done out the door. Anyone > know how I might be able to get down there? Call up the event organizers and see if they'll pay for a cab. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 20:47:28 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:47:28 +0000 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f05041013356901c2be-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> <96aa4e8f05041013356901c2be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200504102047.28399.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 10, 2005 08:35 pm, Igor Denisov wrote: > > The dinner is this Thursday and with the possibility of the TTC > > striking, my transportation might have just done out the door. Anyone > > know how I might be able to get down there? > > Call up the event organizers and see if they'll pay for a cab. Forget the cab. Ask for a limo, they can afford it. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 20:43:03 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:43:03 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Apr 10, 2005 1:33 AM, Adam Raymond wrote: > On Sun, 20 Mar 2005 12:12:06 -0500, CLIFFORD ILKAY > wrote: > > Knowing what the competition is saying about what you are selling is a good > > > > thing. It is even sweeter if the competition pays for you to find out:) > > > > Clifford Ilkay > > The dinner is this Thursday and with the possibility of the TTC > striking, my transportation might have just done out the door. Anyone > know how I might be able to get down there? Contact the organizers and see if THEY can arrange for something. It truly is THEIR problem, and solution is their responsibility. The legitimate concern for this list is the issue of what happens for transportation to the TLUG meeting on Tuesday if the strike is on. I normally TTC in; I obviously won't be doing that if the strike is on. I'm not thrilled with driving in thru the traffic jam and looking for parking, either. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 20:46:41 2005 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:46:41 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: <200504102047.28399.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> <96aa4e8f05041013356901c2be@mail.gmail.com> <200504102047.28399.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f050410134651cf6b91@mail.gmail.com> > > Call up the event organizers and see if they'll pay for a cab. > > Forget the cab. Ask for a limo, they can afford it. Oh, and make sure they agree to pay for the _return_ trip too, in advance :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 20:47:27 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:47:27 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: References: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <34e8a43d050410134736eac89b@mail.gmail.com> On Apr 10, 2005 4:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > The legitimate concern for this list is the issue of what happens for > transportation to the TLUG meeting on Tuesday if the strike is on. I > normally TTC in; I obviously won't be doing that if the strike is on. > I'm not thrilled with driving in thru the traffic jam and looking for > parking, either. > -- > It's especially a big deal for me, living in Mississauga (Mavis and the 401). Right now I'm praying these guys don't strike. But it doesn't looks promising. -- - Adam Raymond -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 20:48:47 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:48:47 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: <200504102047.28399.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> <96aa4e8f05041013356901c2be@mail.gmail.com> <200504102047.28399.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <34e8a43d050410134863d18cf9@mail.gmail.com> On Apr 10, 2005 4:47 PM, Jason Shein wrote: > Forget the cab. Ask for a limo, they can afford it. > -- > Jason Shein I'm sure they'll be happy spending their money on a 16 year old. :S -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 22:23:36 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:23:36 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <425861E3.9080801-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> <42585AA3.4010708@sympatico.ca> <42585E49.3080801@rogers.com> <425861E3.9080801@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4259A768.3060803@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > >>Hubba Hubba... ;-) >> >>Don't forget to leave some cold pizza slices and empty Jolt cans >>scattered around, to create that "hacker" atmosphere. (A few unwashed >>socks might help here ) > > > puleeze ! I think I'm gonna flip my bits ! > djp Hey. I just noticed that David Patrick is doing the Novell presentation, on Tuesday morning at LinuxWorld! I didn't know you worked for Novell. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 10 22:36:28 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 18:36:28 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <4259A768.3060803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> <42585AA3.4010708@sympatico.ca> <42585E49.3080801@rogers.com> <425861E3.9080801@sympatico.ca> <4259A768.3060803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4259AA6C.5040102@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > >> >> puleeze ! I think I'm gonna flip my bits ! >> djp > > > Hey. I just noticed that David Patrick is doing the Novell > presentation, on Tuesday morning at LinuxWorld! Whaa ? I am ? I mean .. yeah Linuxworld, right ! Presentation ! ahem.. > I didn't know you worked for Novell. ;-) Yeah, well, I'm trying to downplay the whole Novell thang.. makes the other distros jealous.. ... I'd tell y'all more about it but I gotta go cut my hair, dye it, buy a suit and brush up on stuff.. you know .. for the presentation.. see ya there ! ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 00:55:52 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: <34e8a43d050410134736eac89b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> <34e8a43d050410134736eac89b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Apr 2005, Adam Raymond wrote: > On Apr 10, 2005 4:43 PM, Christopher Browne wrote: > > The legitimate concern for this list is the issue of what happens for > > transportation to the TLUG meeting on Tuesday if the strike is on. I > > normally TTC in; I obviously won't be doing that if the strike is on. > > I'm not thrilled with driving in thru the traffic jam and looking for > > parking, either. > > -- > > > > It's especially a big deal for me, living in Mississauga (Mavis and > the 401). Right now I'm praying these guys don't strike. But it > doesn't looks promising. Strike averted until Thursday at least: http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/10/toronto-transit050410.html Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 00:59:53 2005 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 20:59:53 -0400 Subject: Toronto Linux User Group Online is invited to the Microsoft Platform Technical Briefing Dinner In-Reply-To: References: <34e8a43d05031917545dc2ae4f@mail.gmail.com> <200503201212.07295.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> <34e8a43d05040922333fa2ed5c@mail.gmail.com> <34e8a43d050410134736eac89b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <34e8a43d05041017595a6dc1d4@mail.gmail.com> On Apr 10, 2005 8:55 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > Strike averted until Thursday at least: > > http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/04/10/toronto-transit050410.html > > Rob > On that note. Is their anyone in TLUG going to the dinner that would like to meet up? -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 02:19:49 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Sun, 10 Apr 2005 22:19:49 -0400 Subject: LVM questions In-Reply-To: <20050407231911.GC24779-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050407231911.GC24779@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Apr 7, 2005 7:19 PM, Walter Dnes wrote: > Only the 4th partition is actually under LVM. I believe that ReiserFS > or ext3 or whatever runs on top of LVM. Is there a speed hit with LVM? Nope, as far as I know there isn't any performance degredation when using LVM. > Is extent assignment random-access? To illustrate it better, let's > assume I start with the following logical partitions... > > A) 10 gigs > B) 20 gigs > C) 10 gigs > > ...can I later delete A and add those 10 gigs to C, even though they're > physically separated by intervening logical B? Assignment is not random access. Normally, when you create a logical volume (LV) (what used to be a "partition", the thing you format with a filesystem), LVM uses physical extents (PE) on the first disk in the volume group with the corresponding space. If it runs out, it will allocate PEs that are on the other disks in the volume group (VG). Of course, this is all tuneable, if you want. You can say, for example, create an LV, but use the free PEs on hdb1. You can also stripe the data across all your VG disks. In some cases this will give you better performance; sort of like a striped RAID array. The thing to keep in mind with LVM, is that once you create your VG, it, essentially, is your "disk". It is a pool of space, made up from all the drives in it. You no longer have to worry about things like disk size, primary/extended/logical partitions. You just tell LVM that you want a "partition" (eg. LV) and how big, and it does the rest. Same thing goes for shrinking and reducing the LVs. If you want to add more space later on, you can do it without affecting the other LVs. LVM simply allocates the space from the free space in the VG. (caveat: shrinking/growing the size of an LV does NOT shrink/grow the size of the filesystem! You must use the appropriate filesystem command to do that part, and there are restrictions on the different types of filesystems and how they can be changed.) And the best part? You can do all this while the disks are online, and without encurring a reboot, or, in some cases, even single user mode. For a real good writeup of how LVM works, check out this whitepaper from Novell. It's a bit dated when it comes to the commands part, but they should work for the most part. It's the explanation that is really good. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 04:13:36 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:13:36 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? Message-ID: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> I'm not a company, or a consultant, just a guy with a computer. Approx 12:35 AM, very early Saturday morning, the fire alarm went off in the condo building I live in. It turned out to be a hypersensitive smoke detecter that detected someone smoking (duhhh), so no damage except for some lost sleep. I did grab my latest backup CD on the way out the door, but the incident made me think. I have my /etc and home directories backed up on CD. However, I also have a few gigs of personal stuff, e.g. scans of photos of my late parents etc, that I'd be very unhappy about losing. I realized that if the place burned down, especially while I was at work, I would lose everything, including the backups. So my question is, where can I find secure offsite storage for several gigs of my stuff. Also, while there's nothing illegal in my personal files (I.e. no child porn or plans to blow up airplanes or whatever) it is personal, and I'd prefer to keep it private. Is GPG still secure, or can an overclocked AMD crack it in a few days? I assume that CSIS/RCMP/CIA will be able to crack it (by torturing the passphrase out of me if need be). I'm more concerned about the people like the crowd on this list (sorry about that) being able to crack GPG. CDs and DVDs are too big for my safety deposit box. Some low-end hosting outfit where I can rent a machine would work, but it sounds like overkill. I'm looking at uploading a few gigs the first month, and then approx 250 megs (volatile stuff) twice a month. Anybody have any other ideas? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 04:14:45 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:14:45 -0400 Subject: What is swapping/paging? In-Reply-To: <200504091417.40874.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200504091417.40874.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <4259F9B5.8090101@quadratic.net> First off pagging and swapping behavior is VERY unix specific. FreeBSD's behavior is very different to Linux's or Solaris' behavior. Heck mm in linux's 22. 2.4 2.6 and all the patches make things hard to keep track of. So what are you using? You said Unix and this is a linux list. Can you give us a "uname -a". Also can you tell us what you've read so far so those of us who want to learn more ( myself included ) can follow along? These were good to me: http://home.earthlink.net/~jknapka/linux-mm/vmoutline.html http://www.linux-mm.org/ I have looked into how linux ( 2.4 ) uses memory. Check out the section called "Sar analysis" http://www.quadratic.net/~david/gnuplot/ david Fraser Campbell wrote: >Hi, > >I'm trying to figure out what processes are paging out, ps shows nothing >swapped out. > >The reason that I'm curious is that I have several servers with 4 GB RAM where >more than 2GB of RAM are free (well, used by caching) but most of swap >(900MB) is used up. Interactive performance on the machines is just fine but >I still want to understand what is happening. > >pmap looked like one way to get an answer but I'm not sure how to >interpret the output ... I get this (as an example): > >1: init [2] >Address Kbytes Mode Offset Device Mapping >08048000 28 r-x-- 0000000000000000 0fd:00000 init >0804f000 4 rw--- 0000000000007000 0fd:00000 init >08050000 132 rw--- 0000000008050000 000:00000 [ anon ] >b7e9a000 4 rw--- 00000000b7e9a000 000:00000 [ anon ] >b7e9b000 1188 r-x-- 0000000000000000 0fd:00000 libc-2.3.2.so >b7fc4000 32 rw--- 0000000000129000 0fd:00000 libc-2.3.2.so >b7fcc000 12 rw--- 00000000b7fcc000 000:00000 [ anon ] >b7fe9000 4 rw--- 00000000b7fe9000 000:00000 [ anon ] >b7fea000 88 r-x-- 0000000000000000 0fd:00000 ld-2.3.2.so >b8000000 4 rw--- 0000000000015000 0fd:00000 ld-2.3.2.so >bffff000 4 rw--- 00000000bffff000 000:00000 [ stack ] >ffffe000 4 ----- 0000000000000000 000:00000 [ anon ] >mapped: 1504K writeable/private: 196K shared: 0K > >What is "Device" referring to? My swap is LV on MD, partition type FD (raid >autodetect) so I thought 0fd:00000 might be referring to my swap device >however after checking against another machine that assumption doesn't hold >true. > >I haven't been able to come up with a list of unique address/offset/device >entries that add up to anywhere close to my swap usage ... am I barking up >the wrong tree entirely, are there other ways to find out what's in swap? > >I've been reading a lot about unix paging, swapping, etc. this morning but >nothing I've found seems to answer the fundamental question, what's in swap. >Pointers to the correct docs would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks! > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 04:22:00 2005 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:22:00 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411041336.GA6672-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1113193321.12618.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-11-04 at 00:13 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > CDs and DVDs are too big for my safety deposit box. Some low-end > hosting outfit where I can rent a machine would work, but it sounds like > overkill. I'm looking at uploading a few gigs the first month, and then > approx 250 megs (volatile stuff) twice a month. Anybody have any other > ideas? How about... finding a close friend who wants to do the same, and making some sort of "you back up my stuff, i'll back up yours" kind of agreement? No hosting fees, and it's unlikely that both of your houses will burn down at the same time. Just a thought, -Leigh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 04:25:14 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 00:25:14 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411041336.GA6672-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <4259FC2A.8060003@quadratic.net> a small aside.. You need rubberhose http://www.mirrors.wiretapped.net/security/cryptography/filesystems/rubberhose/ My own local copy http://archive.quadratic.net/software/rubberhose/ Now with "Smells like deniablity" action. david Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm not a company, or a consultant, just a guy with a computer. >Approx 12:35 AM, very early Saturday morning, the fire alarm went off in >the condo building I live in. It turned out to be a hypersensitive >smoke detecter that detected someone smoking (duhhh), so no damage >except for some lost sleep. > > I did grab my latest backup CD on the way out the door, but the >incident made me think. I have my /etc and home directories backed up >on CD. However, I also have a few gigs of personal stuff, e.g. scans of >photos of my late parents etc, that I'd be very unhappy about losing. I >realized that if the place burned down, especially while I was at work, >I would lose everything, including the backups. > > So my question is, where can I find secure offsite storage for several >gigs of my stuff. Also, while there's nothing illegal in my personal >files (I.e. no child porn or plans to blow up airplanes or whatever) it >is personal, and I'd prefer to keep it private. Is GPG still secure, or >can an overclocked AMD crack it in a few days? I assume that >CSIS/RCMP/CIA will be able to crack it (by torturing the passphrase out >of me if need be). I'm more concerned about the people like the >crowd on this list (sorry about that) being able to crack GPG. > > CDs and DVDs are too big for my safety deposit box. Some low-end >hosting outfit where I can rent a machine would work, but it sounds like >overkill. I'm looking at uploading a few gigs the first month, and then >approx 250 megs (volatile stuff) twice a month. Anybody have any other >ideas? > > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 05:05:51 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 01:05:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411041336.GA6672-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? JV On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm not a company, or a consultant, just a guy with a computer. > Approx 12:35 AM, very early Saturday morning, the fire alarm went off in > the condo building I live in. It turned out to be a hypersensitive > smoke detecter that detected someone smoking (duhhh), so no damage > except for some lost sleep. > > I did grab my latest backup CD on the way out the door, but the > incident made me think. I have my /etc and home directories backed up > on CD. However, I also have a few gigs of personal stuff, e.g. scans of > photos of my late parents etc, that I'd be very unhappy about losing. I > realized that if the place burned down, especially while I was at work, > I would lose everything, including the backups. > > So my question is, where can I find secure offsite storage for several > gigs of my stuff. Also, while there's nothing illegal in my personal > files (I.e. no child porn or plans to blow up airplanes or whatever) it > is personal, and I'd prefer to keep it private. Is GPG still secure, or > can an overclocked AMD crack it in a few days? I assume that > CSIS/RCMP/CIA will be able to crack it (by torturing the passphrase out > of me if need be). I'm more concerned about the people like the > crowd on this list (sorry about that) being able to crack GPG. > > CDs and DVDs are too big for my safety deposit box. Some low-end > hosting outfit where I can rent a machine would work, but it sounds like > overkill. I'm looking at uploading a few gigs the first month, and then > approx 250 megs (volatile stuff) twice a month. Anybody have any other > ideas? > > -- > Walter Dnes > An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will > eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, > and has a lower TCO, than linux. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 11:09:06 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:09:06 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411041336.GA6672-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425A5AD2.3080108@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm not a company, or a consultant, just a guy with a computer. > Approx 12:35 AM, very early Saturday morning, the fire alarm went off in > the condo building I live in. It turned out to be a hypersensitive > smoke detecter that detected someone smoking (duhhh), so no damage > except for some lost sleep. Last I heard, PGP/GPG were still secure. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 11:49:17 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 07:49:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411041336.GA6672-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm not a company, or a consultant, just a guy with a computer. > Approx 12:35 AM, very early Saturday morning, the fire alarm went off in > the condo building I live in. It turned out to be a hypersensitive > smoke detecter that detected someone smoking (duhhh), so no damage > except for some lost sleep. > > I did grab my latest backup CD on the way out the door, but the > incident made me think. I have my /etc and home directories backed up > on CD. However, I also have a few gigs of personal stuff, e.g. scans of > photos of my late parents etc, that I'd be very unhappy about losing. I > realized that if the place burned down, especially while I was at work, > I would lose everything, including the backups. I suggest a harddrive in an firewire/usb/dual case. I suggest an arrangement of at least two such devices with a rule that at least one must be kept off site at all times. This type of solution is used for many home users and small businesses. You can easily give yourself hundreds of GB storage per device and run a full/incremental backup scheme with a staging area locally. For a $300 initial investment you could be set for years of safe backups. Tiger Direct are currently offering 120GB 5400rpm drives for $49.97 (after rebate, excluding tax, etc). I was unimpressed with their customer service recently but the value of these drives for backup devices is hard to ignore. Since backups would typically happen when you are asleep the slower rpm of the drive is not a significant issue, IMHO. Reference: http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/category_hdd.asp Otherwise watch out for DDS tapes - they can be a problem in themselves. Higher end tape devices are much better. As for encryption, watch out. If you lose the ability to unencrypt the backups yourself you are stuffed. The time this is most likely to happen is during a disaster. Leigh's suggestion to swap backups with a trusted friend is a good one. OH and run a Disaster Recovery test. If you buy a new machine (or have an old one available) pretend you need to restore everything and see how it goes. A surprising number of issues can crop up even for home users. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 13:21:25 2005 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:21:25 -0400 Subject: More Power Captain! In-Reply-To: References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <425A79D5.3090204@knet.ca> Can I get 3 other people to spot $25 each? I got $25. Power is essential. "Ideas...They have the power." ~ Napoleon Hill Star Trek meets Unix "Scotty, I want full power to the megabit RAM chips and to the hard drives.!" "Captain, yer overloadin' her as it is. The power supply just isn't built to take two harrrd drrrives:" "Power, Scotty ! I want more power ! Chekov, install the disk cache. Spock, any word on the millions of instructions per second ?" "Fascinating, Captain. It seems as if the turbo accelerator board is overrunning the hard drive, which, due to its poor response time, is slowing down the system performance." "Scotty, where is that power ?" "Captain, I'm givin ye all she's got. It's that miserable 80986 with the 512 bit bus multiplexed down to one pin. The wee beastie has these teeny weeny little segments that can only handle so much. You'll have to install an extended memory board, do bank switching, and allocate a huge RAM disk if you want to go any faster." "Chekov, install the EMS board." "Yes, sir." "Uhura, any word from the mainframe command ?" "Well, Captain, we're received several interupts from the serial port, but because we're not multitasking, the data is just sitting there." "Scotty, how much longer until we can shift Into Unix ?" "Captain, if ye can squeeze another 80 megabytes onto hard disk, we might have room for Unix and a couple of system utilities. Possibly an application. We'll need to increase the clock speed to 28 gigahertz. I think we can do it, but there are too many unknown proper chakedowns.!" "Spock ?" "Unix is massive system, Captain, and the commands have to he decoded from hieroglyphics invented back in ancient times. It may be more than we can handle." "Sulu, put in the 80 meg hard drive, install unix for mouse drive. Prepare to go to Task speed on my signal." "Mouse drive ? .... Aye, Captain." "Now, you just have a little spreadsheet work, mailing labels and some word prosessing. Won't you think you're overdoing it a bit ?" "Sulu ?" "Captain, she's shifting into multitasking one. Task two. Captain, I'm losing control at the helm. It looks like we've encountered a bad sector." "Put it on visual, Sulu." "Captain, the VGA is not responding. Shifting resolution to EGA mode." "Spock ? What is the problem. ?" "Unknown, Captain. Unix seems to rerouting all input to a null device. Trying 'grep,' whatever that is." "Scotty, what's happening with those /dev subdirectories ?" "Captain, she canna take much morrre... Another fifeen seconds and the math chips'll burrrn for surrre..." "Scotty, we're not using the math chip "Sorry, Captain, but I haven't been able to say that for twenty minutes." "Uhura, notify mainframe command." "Captain, either communications is breakig up, or you're dropping into Shakespearean stutter mode again:" "Captain, she canna take much morrre... Another fifteen seconds and thee math chips'll burrrn for surrre..." "Enogh, Scotty !" "Captain ! I'm getting a message from main frame command.Apparently, sir, they're going to time-warp previously forgotten modes of data handling it looks like SQL syntax is forming in the language port now." "Scotty, quick, pop-up the menu shields. This could be a trick to get us back to card punching." "I'm sorry, Captain, but Dbase CLXIX doesn't have pop-ups that work yet." "Chekov, we need hardcopy ! Fire HP laserJet !" "Aye, sir." "Bones, how do I see which tasks are active ? " "Dammit, Jim ! I'm a doctor, not a command shell !!" "Scotty ! Why can't I get a directory on the thing !!?" "Captain, ye just canna have mouse driven pull down menu system with Unix. It's like matter and antimatter, the system's too boggen down. Yer draining me quartz crystals." "Chekov, report." "Captain, the little arrow is responding, but I gets to the side of the screen before the windows have a change to move..." "Spock ? What's happening to our multitasking ?" "It appears as if the needs of one are outweighting the needs of the many." "Captain, she's not even runnin on reserve now. We'll have do a cold boot for surrre." "Reboot Scotty !" "I can't, Captain...we have lost CMOS" "Install floppy backup" "We can't captain... Intense magnetic radiation from overloading the power supply has wiped the backup floppies" "Doctor ?" "It's dead, Jim." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 13:30:13 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:30:13 -0400 Subject: Java on Mandrake In-Reply-To: <20050409165146.94529.qmail-fizLuMQkVWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050409165146.94529.qmail@web52009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050411133013.GZ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 09:51:46AM -0700, Michael Yang wrote: > I have just installed the JRE 1.4 on Mandrake 10.1. The jave directory is /usr/java/j2re..., however when I point the path in Opera or other Browser, Java applet on the web can not be recognized. I have checked the mandrake site and it mentioned a script under /etc/profile.d, however I didn't find the scirpt after installation. 'Which java' reported nothing found (under 'su'). I appreciate someone point me to the right direction. > > By the way, any recommendations for a realiable BT Torrent client under Linux? Bittornado. You can use btlaunchmany /path/to/dir/with/.torrents and it will handle multiple files (and any files added or removed are deault with automatically within a minute or so). Running it in screen is handy since it is text mode and you can leave it running that way. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 13:31:56 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:31:56 -0400 Subject: More Power Captain! In-Reply-To: <425A79D5.3090204-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <425A79D5.3090204@knet.ca> Message-ID: <425A7C4C.5030208@sympatico.ca> teddymills wrote: > > Can I get 3 other people to spot $25 each? > I got $25. > > Power is essential. Another $75 ?? whatdya need another $40 bucks for ? wegotthepowah [dances] djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 13:45:47 2005 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 09:45:47 -0400 Subject: More Power Captain! In-Reply-To: <425A7C4C.5030208-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <425A79D5.3090204@knet.ca> <425A7C4C.5030208@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425A7F8B.4060902@knet.ca> I was told it was $100. Now I was informed it was $131. I will pay for the power right now. Whoever is handling this, get in touch with me, Teddy at 416-419-7916 I was told power has to be paid for by this Friday via the online form, otherwise we wont get the changes in and wont have power. $131 gets us 800 watts /120v Duplex out approx 6 amps.... I still would like others to chip in whatever they can to myself...... Bring UPS's, and charge them up before getting there.... Using UPS's we can increase the power output (temporarily) Internet access is right out the window..($800+) Cant see internet access happening. I have a Wireless 54G router that I can provide, but I cant see how that is going to help... /teddy David J Patrick wrote: >teddymills wrote: > > > >>Can I get 3 other people to spot $25 each? >>I got $25. >> >>Power is essential. >> >> > >Another $75 ?? >whatdya need another $40 bucks for ? > >wegotthepowah [dances] >djp >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 14:28:54 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:28:54 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411041336.GA6672-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> Quoting Walter Dnes : > > So my question is, where can I find secure offsite storage for several > gigs of my stuff. Also, while there's nothing illegal in my personal Free webmail with 1Gb (and more) storage space. Your data is mostly static, so occupy available space and let google back it up for you :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 14:42:29 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:42:29 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> Ilya Palagin wrote: > > Free webmail with 1Gb (and more) storage space. Your data is mostly > static, so > occupy available space and let google back it up for you :-) now 2gig+ ! can someone suggest a script-based, gmail inclined, middle of the night, cron-ified backup strategy ? There should be some provision for file encryption, and perhaps a backup file rotation/deletion scheme. Is there a published API ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 14:47:34 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:47:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep > your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? Yes and no and maybe. Remember that (a) a fireproof box will typically be rated fireproof only for a specific length of time, and (b) the ratings are based on damage to paper, and backup media may be less heat-resistant. Such a box is lots better than just keeping them in a drawer, but just how good it is will depend on how quickly the fire is put out. Also on where the box is kept -- in a corner of the basement(*) under a sandbag is a lot better than in a second-floor closet. (* But make sure the box is waterproof or the media are in zip-lock bags, preferably both. ) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 14:52:46 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:52:46 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425A8F3E.9060809@sympatico.ca> Henry Spencer wrote: >On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > > >>Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep >>your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? >> >> > >Yes and no and maybe. Remember that (a) a fireproof box will typically be >rated fireproof only for a specific length of time, and (b) the ratings >are based on damage to paper, and backup media may be less heat-resistant. > I would expect that if your safe is exposed to any kind of high temp, for any length of time, traditional media (other than paper) would be toast. Henrys' safe placement strategy makes a lot of sense (basement corner, under sandbag) but you can't beat redundant and offsite backups. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 14:54:35 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:54:35 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425A8CD5.2010704-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050411105435.xf75h9pwnfkg4o0o@www.almatau.com> Quoting David J Patrick : > Ilya Palagin wrote: > >> >> Free webmail with 1Gb (and more) storage space. Your data is mostly >> static, so >> occupy available space and let google back it up for you :-) > > now 2gig+ ! > can someone suggest a script-based, gmail inclined, middle of the night, > cron-ified backup strategy ? > There should be some provision for file encryption, and perhaps a backup > file rotation/deletion scheme. Is there a published API ? > > djp Uploading files using web interface may not be reliable. I would make a script which packs my stuff into 10Mb chunks (or whatever attachment limit is) and sends it by smtp (of course, it must not be a huge single tar). Subject would contain a chunk ID, so that when I need to restore something, I would download chunks ABD12343 and ABD12344 from my Inbox (index is to be stored in a database with an ASCII listing in the same inbox for backup). It's also possible that this project has been done by someone already, sourceforge.net may provide with details :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 14:56:36 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:56:36 -0400 Subject: Way OT: Room for Rent Message-ID: <20050411145636.GA30452@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> This is only Linux-related in that rent includes a static IP and strict rules about running only (responsibly secured) Linux exposed to the Internet. We (my wife and I) live in a nice 3 bedroom house between Danforth & the Beaches. It's a short walk to subway or streetcar, 20 minutes by bike to U of T and downtown and has other nice amenities, like a park with a free swimming pool and skating rink at the top of the street, a deck & BBQ out back, etc. And, of course, a couple of nice, easygoing, grad students for housemates. Rent is $425 per month plus a third of utilities (usually about $100 for everything: gas, hydro, water, regular phone, long distance phone, DSL & cable.) This is not list-related, so respondents who email the list are automatically disqualified. Flames about my etiquette are, of course, encouraged. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 14:58:01 2005 From: fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org (George Fiala) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:58:01 -0400 Subject: offsite backup Message-ID: <000001c53ea6$df236820$0c01a8c0@iqpd6> try this site: http://www.everydaybackup.com George ICQ: 259 468 580 Yahoo: brainwrx1 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:01:45 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:01:45 -0400 Subject: offsite backup In-Reply-To: <000001c53ea6$df236820$0c01a8c0@iqpd6> References: <000001c53ea6$df236820$0c01a8c0@iqpd6> Message-ID: <20050411110145.kf6508dk1eokkgww@www.almatau.com> Quoting George Fiala : > try this site: > > http://www.everydaybackup.com > there is a number of backup facilicites in Internet, unfortunately, none of them is free (it was the requirement) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:06:06 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:06:06 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425A8CD5.2010704-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050411150606.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 10:42:29AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Ilya Palagin wrote: > > > Free webmail with 1Gb (and more) storage space. Your data is mostly > > static, so > > occupy available space and let google back it up for you :-) > > now 2gig+ ! > can someone suggest a script-based, gmail inclined, middle of the night, > cron-ified backup strategy ? > There should be some provision for file encryption, and perhaps a backup > file rotation/deletion scheme. Is there a published API ? Maybe using gmailfs? If the backup can be done in small files rather than large big files, it may even be fairly efficient. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:08:16 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:08:16 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411150606.GA23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> <20050411150606.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <425A92E0.1090409@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 10:42:29AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > >>can someone suggest a script-based, gmail inclined, middle of the night, >>cron-ified backup strategy ? >>There should be some provision for file encryption, and perhaps a backup >>file rotation/deletion scheme. Is there a published API ? >> >> > >Maybe using gmailfs? > > I'll bite; what's gmailfs ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:13:20 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:13:20 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411150606.GA23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> <20050411150606.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <425A9410.4000108@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 10:42:29AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > >>Ilya Palagin wrote: >> >> >>>Free webmail with 1Gb (and more) storage space. Your data is mostly >>>static, so >>>occupy available space and let google back it up for you :-) >> >>now 2gig+ ! >>can someone suggest a script-based, gmail inclined, middle of the night, >>cron-ified backup strategy ? >>There should be some provision for file encryption, and perhaps a backup >>file rotation/deletion scheme. Is there a published API ? > > > Maybe using gmailfs? > > If the backup can be done in small files rather than large big files, it > may even be fairly efficient. :) > > Lennart Sorensen Last I checked, Google has blocked it and it hasn't been fixed. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:22:08 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:22:08 +0000 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425A92E0.1090409-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411150606.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <425A92E0.1090409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200504111522.10051.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 11, 2005 03:08 pm, David J Patrick wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 10:42:29AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > >>can someone suggest a script-based, gmail inclined, middle of the night, > >>cron-ified backup strategy ? > >>There should be some provision for file encryption, and perhaps a backup > >>file rotation/deletion scheme. Is there a published API ? > > > >Maybe using gmailfs? > > I'll bite; what's gmailfs ? > djp > -- http://richard.jones.name/google-hacks/gmail-filesystem/gmail-filesystem.html -snip- Saturday January 29th 2005 The author of libgmail has updated the library to deal with recent changes in Gmail. This should resolve the problems recently experienced by Gmail Filesystem users. The most recent version of libgmail from CVS is required for Gmail Filesystem to operate correctly. -snip- Dont know if it is still functional -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:17:40 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:17:40 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411105435.xf75h9pwnfkg4o0o-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> <20050411105435.xf75h9pwnfkg4o0o@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <425A9514.8050504@sympatico.ca> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting David J Patrick : > >> Ilya Palagin wrote: > > > Uploading files using web interface may not be reliable. I would make > a script > which packs my stuff into 10Mb chunks (or whatever attachment limit > is) and > sends it by smtp (of course, it must not be a huge single tar). > Subject would contain a chunk ID, so that when I need to restore > something, I would download [snip] > It's also possible that this project has been done by someone already, > sourceforge.net may provide with details :-) There are a number of hits when searching sourceforge for "gmail", perhaps the most promising (for scripted backups) is http://libgmail.sourceforge.net/ a python approach. djp > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:24:53 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:24:53 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <200504111522.10051.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411150606.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <425A92E0.1090409@sympatico.ca> <200504111522.10051.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050411152453.GB23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 03:22:08PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > http://richard.jones.name/google-hacks/gmail-filesystem/gmail-filesystem.html > > -snip- > Saturday January 29th 2005 > The author of libgmail has updated the library to deal with recent changes in > Gmail. This should resolve the problems recently experienced by Gmail > Filesystem users. The most recent version of libgmail from CVS is required > for Gmail Filesystem to operate correctly. > -snip- > > Dont know if it is still functional I just tried it. Works perfectly with the gmailfs package in Debian unstable. Does not work with the one in Debian testing. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:33:57 2005 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 Apr 2005 11:33:57 -0400 Subject: Linux World Canada Planning meeting In-Reply-To: <42568336.708-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4254874A.3030204@sympatico.ca> <42548C2D.4050902@sympatico.ca> <20050407024106.GA1897@node1.opengeometry.net> <42559DFC.9090507@golden.net> <42568336.708@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: David J Patrick writes: > Bravo OpenTrend ! > However it seems as though there remains opportunity for others to be a > part of all this giving, as Colin has just posted the GST-enhanced > bottom line = 140.17, so.. operators are standing by ... CLUE (www.linux.ca) can cover the rest: $50-ish dollars. I can give the donation collector the money at the show, if that's convenient. TTYL, -- g. matthew rice starnix, toronto, ontario, ca phone: 647.722.5301 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jpikul-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 15:55:09 2005 From: jpikul-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jeffrey Pikul) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 11:55:09 -0400 Subject: Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050401162051.GA2068-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050411155314.0AF751215BE@acheron.ss.org> Hello William. I can be available any time on April 20. -- Jeffrey Pikul jpikul-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 16:37:01 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:37:01 -0400 Subject: debian holiday ? Message-ID: <425AA7AD.6040105@sympatico.ca> As an ubuntu fan and habitual "apt-get dist-upgrader" I have been delighted to get ~30 fresh updates every day, for the last few weeks. Now, since Hoary Hedgehog has officially hit the mirrors, there has been nothing new fer days ! "0 upgraded, 0 newly installed" ! It's not like I actually need anything new, but it makes me wonder; did the ubuntu overlords say "Happy Hoary, good job, take the rest of the week off " ? or did I broke somethin, again ? I'm sure that there must be coders somewhere in easter europe who want to plunk updates on my box, and I don't want to dissapoint 'em :-) thoughts ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 16:56:44 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:56:44 -0400 Subject: debian holiday ? References: <425AA7AD.6040105@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: I'm sure that if you poked around in multiverse you could find something. Anyone know when Breezy repositories will be added? I'm ready for another round. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 17:02:08 2005 From: mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 13:02:08 -0400 Subject: debian holiday ? In-Reply-To: <425AA7AD.6040105-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425AA7AD.6040105@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1113238928.27608.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-04-11 at 12:37 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > It's not like I actually need anything new, but it makes me wonder; > did the ubuntu overlords say "Happy Hoary, good job, take the rest of > the week off " ? or did I broke somethin, again ? I'm sure that there > must be coders somewhere in easter europe who want to plunk updates on > my box, and I don't want to dissapoint 'em :-) > thoughts ? Nothing here for days except Beagle: ...and the Beagle update's broken for me because the kernel hasn't caught up yet. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 18:00:53 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:00:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411105435.xf75h9pwnfkg4o0o-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> <20050411105435.xf75h9pwnfkg4o0o@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Uploading files using web interface may not be reliable. I would make a > script which packs my stuff into 10Mb chunks (or whatever attachment > limit is) and sends it by smtp (of course, it must not be a huge single > tar). Subject would contain a chunk ID, so that when I need to restore > something, I would download chunks ABD12343 and ABD12344 from my Inbox > (index is to be stored in a database with an ASCII listing in the same > inbox for backup). Watch out - data sent via email is 33% larger than the same data sent via scp (for example). That's MIME for ya :) split is a useful tool for breaking a tar.bz2 file into chunks of course. A split file can be reconstructed with cat. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 18:07:18 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:07:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep your > data safe and readable if there was a major fire? A couple of reasons I'm not a fan of this type of solution: 1. Some "fireproof" safes are "fireproof" because _they_ will survive a fire - not their sensitive contents. You need to establish how hot it will get in the safe for a fire of $x degrees for $y hours and hope it a real fire does not exceed these specifications. 2. A firesafe only protects against some failure modes. The building may be hit by an aircraft or even a car resulting in a lot of damage and the destruction of the safe. A safe that is not properly secured may actually be stolen. An offsite backup (sufficiently far away) protects against almost every sort of disaster. If a large asteroid hits the planet all bets are off. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 18:07:56 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:07:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> <425A8CD5.2010704@sympatico.ca> <20050411105435.xf75h9pwnfkg4o0o@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Ilya Palagin wrote: > > > Uploading files using web interface may not be reliable. I would make a > > script which packs my stuff into 10Mb chunks (or whatever attachment > > limit is) and sends it by smtp (of course, it must not be a huge single > > tar). Subject would contain a chunk ID, so that when I need to restore > > something, I would download chunks ABD12343 and ABD12344 from my Inbox > > (index is to be stored in a database with an ASCII listing in the same > > inbox for backup). > > Watch out - data sent via email is 33% larger than the same data sent via > scp (for example). That's MIME for ya :) I meant binary data here. This was probably obvious but I wanted to spell it out anyway :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 18:24:05 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:24:05 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: I've been thinking about these exact same issues. I was thinking about a fireproof box, or even a safe.. but the safes are really expensive and I didn't think the boxes would survive very long. I never thought about the sandbag thing.. would that actually be of real help? Previously, I had done a little bit of exploring into various kinds of data synchronization applications.. I looked at softraid solutions and even at cvs-like solutions. I hated all of it and never found something I liked. I ended up doing things the slow and thorough way. Something which might be interesting to consider would be to heavily-encrypt the data and then a community could provide mutual remotely synchronized offsite backups. I'd be willing to buy hard drives to do something like this. Heck, I can even imagine a p2p secure backup project for this idea. Oh.. and hi everyone.. I'm new. =) Sy, On Apr 11, 2005 2:07 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > > > Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep your > > data safe and readable if there was a major fire? > > A couple of reasons I'm not a fan of this type of solution: > > 1. Some "fireproof" safes are "fireproof" because _they_ will survive a > fire - not their sensitive contents. You need to establish how hot it > will get in the safe for a fire of $x degrees for $y hours and hope it > a real fire does not exceed these specifications. > > 2. A firesafe only protects against some failure modes. The building may > be hit by an aircraft or even a car resulting in a lot of damage and > the destruction of the safe. A safe that is not properly secured may > actually be stolen. > > An offsite backup (sufficiently far away) protects against almost every > sort of disaster. If a large asteroid hits the planet all bets are > off. > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. > Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. > Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net > OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. > Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 18:32:07 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:32:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > I never thought about the sandbag thing.. would that actually be of real help? Anything that helps keep hot air and hot falling debris away from the box's surface will help *some*. Note that the other part of that suggestion was "basement corner", which puts three of the box's six sides against outside surfaces that have lots of thermal inertia and are likely to stay relatively cool. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 19:21:45 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:21:45 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 02:24:05PM -0400, Sy wrote: >Previously, I had done a little bit of exploring into various kinds of >data synchronization applications.. I looked at softraid solutions and >even at cvs-like solutions. I hated all of it and never found >something I liked. I ended up doing things the slow and thorough way. I've been using subversion to keep laptop and desktop versioned and synchronous, and while it's far from flawless, it does work all right. That said, it's a good ten minutes to synch my ~/Mail tree (500Mb). >Something which might be interesting to consider would be to >heavily-encrypt the data and then a community could provide mutual >remotely synchronized offsite backups. I'd be willing to buy hard >drives to do something like this. > >Heck, I can even imagine a p2p secure backup project for this idea. > >Oh.. and hi everyone.. I'm new. =) Hi :-) You type really well for a new person - when I was new I couldn't reliably find the keyboard, or even stop drooling. Seriously though, take a look at the LOCKSS[1] program - it is probably adaptable to an encrypted setup that provides sufficient security against casual malfeasance. If the police or CSIS want the data you will have some explaining to do if they show up with a production order or a warrant and you don't think they have the right to your computer/hard drive. Plausible deniability may be worth designing into a system. [1] Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe: http://lockss.stanford.edu/ -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 19:33:40 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 15:33:40 -0400 Subject: Hello everyone Message-ID: Hi guys.. I thought I'd write a story to say hello. In the beginning, I fell in love with DOS (mostly thanks to 4DOS). I BBSed on a 300 baud acoustically-coupled modem on a 286 when people were debating over the speed differences of a 486 vs the new pentium 60s. 14.4 modems were out back then. I didn't care.. I didn't even understand the fashion of colour monitors. One day I did pick up one of those fancy things, and really liked being able to underline and colourize my text. I think I still had a hercules graphics card and threw it through a funky cga emulator to play games I'm too embarrased to talk about. I struggled with Windows 3.0 and never really took to the GUI idea. I ended up adopting it because of web access. I jury-rigged windows 3.11 and lagged behind in the times, resisting the windows 95 fad. I agonized at how horrific it was to run real DOS applications in windows 3.1 I began an archive of windows 3.1 software which never challanged the DOS collection I had. I began to collect Windows 95 software.. still wondering why Microsoft, the inventor of both the DOS I loved and the Windows I hated couldn't have DOS apps work more happily. At that time, I had heard of Linux, but I didn't hear enough of it to be too interested. At some point, my frustrations with windows 95 caused me to drop everything x86 and pick up a commodore 64. I learned to appreciate colour. And how. I entered into a struggling c64 scene.. helped dust off a local board or two and even participated in the last release of a diskmag. (UG #24) Very few oldtimers were left, and it was a noticibly declining scene. I ended up pulling the plug on the board I adminned, saw the disbanding of another board I was a cosys of, and saw things fall apart. I learned to (slowly) emulate a c64 on a 386. I cut a custom cable and learned to hook a 1541 to my PC to transfer software. It's too bad my parts and data moved with the owner of one of the boards. Whatever.. I let it go. I came back only to learn that this internet thing had really taken off. I still didn't like Windows. I wondered at how OS/2 managed to fail in the face of all that.. maybe I should have tried it. A friend of mine who was a strong advocate of it ended up turning to Windows.. this was a trend I'd see continue for a while. I still had old parts, and I was always happy running DOS but unhappy running Windows. I think this was when I picked up a book on Ygdrassil Linux. I read, and thought, and read. Only after a lot of agonizing learning did I figure out that the disk which shipped with it was damaged. I ended up getting a huge redhat tome with an install cd.. and somehow I managed to repeat the same thing. I read an agonizing 1/3rd of the book and found that I needed to actually have a working system to hack around on before I could really comprehend things. I tried instaling.. I learned that the installer was busted. I gave up. I went back to Windows. In my frustration, I nuked my Windows 3.1 archive, something that I still think I ought to regret. The lure of the internet had me affixed to Windows 95 and later 98. I didn't realise the research tool I had. Sure, I did the website thing.. a few times from a few angles. I was never happy with the technologies I had to deal with. I guess I'm never really happy with anything. I ended up getting frustrated, and thanks to recommendations and some handholding, I learned enough to dual-boot Slackware. This is a bit after their huge version number jump.. this is something I'm still horrified at. I don't know how to explain it. This "Slackware" thing was nothing like DOS.. and yet there was some familiarity there. It was obviously new, and obviously didn't have real users yet.. because there were issues which would have been fixed in consideration of simple users like myself. I learned enough to get X working. I learned enough to get Internet access working. I found the pull of Windows growing weaker and weaker. At some point I got fed up with the Windows thing and dumped it.. going entirely Linux. I didn't care that I was losing a huge amount of handholding.. I learned to get my machine to SCREAM in comparison to Windows' whimper. Blackbox is such a godsend. Then it started to happen.. applications that I would sweat and bleed for began to build the foundation of my Linux experience. Blackbox, twibright's links, mozilla, centericq, sylpheed, lopster.. aah, lopster.. the p2p experience had me hooked to Linux the way the internet originally had me hooked to windows 3.1 and later 95. I was using Linux enough to begin to understand some of the undercurrents.. the philosophies driving things.. the culture. Things began to bug me. There were so many issues which were "in theory" easily fixed by a developer but which were a minor nightmare to users. Some issues were such a barrier that I didn't even have the tools to search for a solution myself -- I just didn't know the terminology. Back then, I didn't even think to check into forums, mailing lists, irc channels or the like. I have no idea why. At some point I got back into dual-booting Windows. I immediately regretted it.. but the Linux experience had me jaded. I just wanted to be coddled by my operating environment. Time passed. I hadn't booted into my Linux setup for a while. At some point I got frustrated again.. and this time I used the internet as my research tool to learn more about Linux. With my frustration at not knowing what I'm doing, or not knowing what tools were available, back when I was fulltime linux I learned the foundation of my research skills. So this time around I knew where to look. I researched various distributions. I tried several of them out. It was horrifying.. I know of no other way to describe it. I grew very jaded. I think that at this point I ended up trying NetBSD.. and I even had the help of a buddy on IRC. Sure.. I can install it.. but I was trying to get it working with an alpha of PHP5 for an unusual setup. I think it was lunacy of me to go about trying to install a new OS with a setup I knew nothing about. And then it happened.. I installed Slackware in my frustration. And it worked. Everything worked. The install went as-expected.. my wacked-out setup failed for its own reasons but I muddled through things. Everything fell into place. I was back in love again. I went through everything all over again.. but this time I had excellent research skills and learned to fix problems I didn't even know I had. I found cool apps, and fiddled with all kinds of stuff. Sure, I didn't do anything very heavy.. no, wait.. I did. Somehow I managed to get an alpha softraid package installed. I have no idea how, and my "expert" friend couldn't do it himself. Somehow everything started working. I did the impossible: I got a video-player to work. I learned to compile with various options to make things work in happy ways. At this time there was still a gap in usability in so many things.. but I had grown enough that I could adapt myself. It strikes me that Linux is sortof like a free market.. if you are poor in a free market, it's because you're stupid and lazy (well, that's how people feel -- that it's somehow only their own fault). With Linux.. I began to succeed when I fond motivation and a certain spark of inspiration and drive. With all of my best Windows experience.. I could try and try and yet somehow I never felt like I was getting ahead. There were fundamental issues with underpinnings which I couldn't address. Time passed.. I began to focus more on content and less on learning.. thanks to my having fallen in love with the wiki concept and having set up my own I had lots of things to write. At some point I ended up going back to Windows. It's like KFC.. after a while you forget how horrid the stuff is and you are lured by that smell (well, some people are). I thought I could pick up some cool hardware, play some games.. I wanted to play Duke Nukem Whenever and Doom III. Starcraft/warcraft had me stick to Windows way back then.. I blew many hours on it. But somehow I stopped caring about games. I missed games on the c64 and wondered at emulating on this new windows thing. I never got around to it. Actually, I really missed c64 music and demos. Back when I was using Slack full-time I picked up a HardSID card and merrily listened to sid tunes. Wait.. I remember running sid emulation on windows 3.1.. hrm. Well, nevermind then. Uh, so.. I went with windows full-time.. and bought a shiny new video card which was state of the art for all of a week..when I learned that I could have saved $100 by buying through a friend who worked at Futureshop. Sigh. Well, I still like the video card.. I only really used it to watch some funky windows demos. Shiny stuff, this 3d nonsense is. So anyhow.. I puttered around with windows.. grinding my teeth. For some reason, I imported my entire Linux setup into Windows.. and abandoned all reason. I really have no idea why I did that.. I renamed mp3s by hand.. because they wouldn't go on this fancy new fat32 filesystem I was using. I can't believe I did that. Yes, I looked for solutions in Linux to rename things.. somehow my luck ran out.. I found some mass renaming tools and such, but nothing really worked for me. I ended up hand-renaming hundreds of files. Well, some time later I learned that a bunch of mp3s were butchered into short filenames because of Windows' stupid directory length limitation. I thought for sure that was solved by fat32 and long filenames. I guess not. Yes, I actually have over a dozen-deep set of directories with very long filenames. But I was smart.. as part of my backup scheme, I had a layout of the mp3 tree including the proper filenames.. and the exact filesizes. I hand-renamed things by checking the short filename's filesize and looking it up in that master file.. and then taking that filename and renaming the short filename back to nearly its original form. It was annoying to have to cut down directory names.. but I did what I had to. Then it happened. I accidentally renamed a short filename. explorer paused for a good ten seconds or more. I renamed it to the filesize which I had been searching for.. and because I was changing the extension, I was prompted with some nice windows handholding for permission to remove the extension. I said no.. I didn't mean to rename it with the filesize. I looked at the file. It had changed. I looked at my reference.. I pasted the filesize from my clipboard. I looked at the properties of the short filename. I gaped. It was different. The filesize was different. I doublechecked. Definitely it was different.. I wasn't even doing anything.. somehow explorer.. shit, the box is compromized. In the face of three layers of protection too. Well, I never really had faith in security on Windows. I paused. I checked with backups. I have both the original and the modified file. I played them both.. since they're both mp3s.. they both sound ok. I set things aside for later analysis. I patiently finished what I was working on. I put my affairs in order like a man about to go to war. FreeBSD? That didn't do it for me.. I tried and tried. No, something doesn't work right. Debian? Hell, I didn't want to go anywhere near that, thanks to my magically blowing it up. No.. somehow I got Slackware installed. And it worked. Without complaint. So now I'm back. Now that Linux in general has good forward momentum there is excellent support for the common hardware, there are a lot of good resources for my learning the solutions to my own problems, there are a LOT of excellent applications out there.. and the list of issues I used to have has dwindled down to nothing. Heck, it took me under five minutes of researching and adjusting to get a scroll mouse working with X.. the prospect of which used to intimidate me. I think that now I'm finally going to enjoy myself. I may not be a crusty old dude, and I may not have all the skills dating back before the term "skillz" was coined (although I do have some), and I'm not an old hat from back before hard disks (although I did own an rll and mfm), but I've been through my own personal hell.. Sy, And so the frog climbed out of the well, and saw the sky for what it truly is. http://sysy.homeip.net/mw/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 20:04:52 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:04:52 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050411200452.GA17599@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 02:32:07PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > > I never thought about the sandbag thing.. would that actually be of real help? > > Anything that helps keep hot air and hot falling debris away from the > box's surface will help *some*. Note that the other part of that > suggestion was "basement corner", which puts three of the box's six sides > against outside surfaces that have lots of thermal inertia and are likely > to stay relatively cool. A basement corner also has the advantage that in most fires the last plave to be engulfed will be a basement corner. So, as long as the fire starts in the opposite quadrant, or gets put out before the fire spreads badly, that is the location most likely to survive. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 20:09:39 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:09:39 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425AD983.3060900@sympatico.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > > An offsite backup (sufficiently far away) protects against almost every > sort of disaster. If a large asteroid hits the planet all bets are > off. > > not necessarily ! seems Craigslist is offering to beam files into deep space.. hah ! stoopid asteroid ! there's some limitations to what you can send, and retrieving the files might be a bit challenging.. but it's nice to have options :-) djp http://www.craigslist.org/about/space.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 20:10:24 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:10:24 -0400 Subject: growisofs and long filenames Message-ID: <20050411201024.GA32024@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I think that I'd doing something wrong with growisofs to burn data DVDs. I ant to put a mess of files onto a DVD, and that works, but it consistently truncates the filenames to 8.3 format, which is, of course, crap. I've tried these commands, but all of them still shorten the filenames: growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -R -J /some/files # Rock Ridge and Joliet growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -R /some/files # Rock Ridge growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -J /some/files # Joliet growisofs -Z /dev/dvd /some/files # no idea Is there something I'm missing? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 20:16:12 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:16:12 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 11, 2005 2:32 PM, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > > I never thought about the sandbag thing.. would that actually be of real help? > > Anything that helps keep hot air and hot falling debris away from the > box's surface will help *some*. Note that the other part of that > suggestion was "basement corner", which puts three of the box's six sides > against outside surfaces that have lots of thermal inertia and are likely > to stay relatively cool. Very good point. Hmm.. I'm on the first floor and I have a corner apartment. I suppose I could do something with that corner. I wonder how good soil is as compared to sand.. I'm thinking of having a little garden there.. and the box would be underneath a table of plants. The wierd thing is that the floor is that crappy "hardwood" which is practically made to burn. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 20:22:14 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 16:22:14 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411192145.GA31783-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Apr 11, 2005 3:21 PM, William O'Higgins wrote: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 02:24:05PM -0400, Sy wrote: > > I've been using subversion to keep laptop and desktop versioned and > synchronous, and while it's far from flawless, it does work all right. > That said, it's a good ten minutes to synch my ~/Mail tree (500Mb). I'm not concerned about speed, only safety and functionality. Subversion seems a bit overblown for this kind of need. I will look into some sort of rsync type thingemy. Although I do kinda want to be able to plug in a backup device, do some checking, and learn what files have changed since my last revision.. it would be a valuable intrusion detection system. > >Oh.. and hi everyone.. I'm new. =) > > Hi :-) You type really well for a new person - when I was new I > couldn't reliably find the keyboard, or even stop drooling. =P > If the police or CSIS want the data you > will have some explaining to do if they show up with a production order > or a warrant and you don't think they have the right to your > computer/hard drive. Plausible deniability may be worth designing into > a system. lockss looks really cool. I'll note that project, thanks. I don't think it's a solution for me.. but it's worth looking into. Actually, I'd donate bandwidth and storage space.. if I had any. Actually, that was something which turned me on to TrueCrypt.[1] It has a way of using slack space in an encrypted volume to stick another encrypted volume. I remember way back when, when I thought of the notion of using slack space in cluster sizes to do something like this. (no, I never did it.. I just daydreamed of the technology.. I did learn to hide files in the whitespace of pictures though.. heh). I hope that TrueCrypt does come out with a Linux version soon (it's on their wishlist).. I was very pleased with the Windows app. [1] http://truecrypt.sourceforge.net/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 21:06:42 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:06:42 -0400 Subject: growisofs and long filenames In-Reply-To: <20050411201024.GA32024-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411201024.GA32024@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050411210642.GC23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 04:10:24PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I think that I'd doing something wrong with growisofs to burn data DVDs. > I ant to put a mess of files onto a DVD, and that works, but it > consistently truncates the filenames to 8.3 format, which is, of course, > crap. I've tried these commands, but all of them still shorten the > filenames: > > growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -R -J /some/files # Rock Ridge and Joliet That one always works here. That is assuming the target system has enough clue to support either rock ridge or joliet extensions. > growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -R /some/files # Rock Ridge That does 8.3 and rock ridge extensions (so linux and most other unixes will get unix permissions and long filenames). MacOS X may also read it properly, although I have never tried. > growisofs -Z /dev/dvd -J /some/files # Joliet That does 8.3 and joliet extensions (for long names on systems that read Joliet like win95 and up, and Linux and probably a few others). > growisofs -Z /dev/dvd /some/files # no idea That will do just 8.3 filenames. > Is there something I'm missing? Thanks. Well it should work. It does here. What do you test on? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 21:07:58 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:07:58 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050411210758.GD23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 04:16:12PM -0400, Sy wrote: > Very good point. Hmm.. I'm on the first floor and I have a corner > apartment. I suppose I could do something with that corner. I wonder > how good soil is as compared to sand.. I'm thinking of having a little > garden there.. and the box would be underneath a table of plants. > > The wierd thing is that the floor is that crappy "hardwood" which is > practically made to burn. =/ You prefer raw concrete as your floors? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 21:31:42 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:31:42 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425AECBE.8010209@rogers.com> John Vetterli wrote: > Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep > your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? As long as you don't exceed the box's ratings, they should be OK. However, I don't know if CDs and DVDs are more sensitive to heat, than paper. At one company I used to work for, we stored "original" mag tapes and disks in a fire safe. They didn't seem to come to any harm. Then again, we didn't have any fires either. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 21:41:16 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:41:16 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425AEEFC.8020206@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, John Vetterli wrote: > >>Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep >>your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? > > > Yes and no and maybe. Remember that (a) a fireproof box will typically be > rated fireproof only for a specific length of time, and (b) the ratings > are based on damage to paper, and backup media may be less heat-resistant. Do the fire safe companies list specs for other than paper? They're often used for computer media. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 22:03:24 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:03:24 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <425AF42C.7070409@rogers.com> Sy wrote: > On Apr 11, 2005 3:21 PM, William O'Higgins wrote: > >>On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 02:24:05PM -0400, Sy wrote: >> >>I've been using subversion to keep laptop and desktop versioned and >>synchronous, and while it's far from flawless, it does work all right. >>That said, it's a good ten minutes to synch my ~/Mail tree (500Mb). > > > I'm not concerned about speed, only safety and functionality. > Subversion seems a bit overblown for this kind of need. I will look > into some sort of rsync type thingemy. Although I do kinda want to be > able to plug in a backup device, do some checking, and learn what > files have changed since my last revision.. it would be a valuable > intrusion detection system. Then, why not just copy to CD and leave them with someone? You can always encrypt the data, if you're worried about security. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 22:26:43 2005 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:26:43 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? Message-ID: No. Most media melts long before paper burns. There are media boxes which are far pricier than typical safes. Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Vetterli Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 1:06 AM To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Offsite backups for the rest of us? Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox keep your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? JV On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm not a company, or a consultant, just a guy with a computer. > Approx 12:35 AM, very early Saturday morning, the fire alarm went off > in the condo building I live in. It turned out to be a hypersensitive > smoke detecter that detected someone smoking (duhhh), so no damage > except for some lost sleep. > > I did grab my latest backup CD on the way out the door, but the > incident made me think. I have my /etc and home directories backed up > on CD. However, I also have a few gigs of personal stuff, e.g. scans > of photos of my late parents etc, that I'd be very unhappy about > losing. I realized that if the place burned down, especially while I > was at work, I would lose everything, including the backups. > > So my question is, where can I find secure offsite storage for > several gigs of my stuff. Also, while there's nothing illegal in my > personal files (I.e. no child porn or plans to blow up airplanes or > whatever) it is personal, and I'd prefer to keep it private. Is GPG > still secure, or can an overclocked AMD crack it in a few days? I > assume that CSIS/RCMP/CIA will be able to crack it (by torturing the > passphrase out of me if need be). I'm more concerned about the > people like the crowd on this list (sorry about that) being able to crack GPG. > > CDs and DVDs are too big for my safety deposit box. Some low-end > hosting outfit where I can rent a machine would work, but it sounds > like overkill. I'm looking at uploading a few gigs the first month, > and then approx 250 megs (volatile stuff) twice a month. Anybody have > any other ideas? > > -- > Walter Dnes > An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will > eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and > has a lower TCO, than linux. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 22:31:02 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 03:31:02 +0500 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425AF42C.7070409-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425AF42C.7070409@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 3:03 AM, James Knott wrote: > Sy wrote: > > I'm not concerned about speed, only safety and functionality. > > Subversion seems a bit overblown for this kind of need. I will look > > into some sort of rsync type thingemy. Although I do kinda want to be > > able to plug in a backup device, do some checking, and learn what > > files have changed since my last revision.. it would be a valuable > > intrusion detection system. > > Then, why not just copy to CD and leave them with someone? You can > always encrypt the data, if you're worried about security. It's the stupidest thing, but I think the best solution is to cart around a hard drive every so often and leave it at the office. That's a solution that was staring me in the face.. =) Sometimes I wonder that I'm too used to doing things the hard way. =/ I already did some minor looking into USB devices and all that.. but nowadays a good distro will support hotplugging usb devices out of the box, so I should be good. I figure a usb enclosure will do what I need.. then all I need is some intelligent updating/backup software. Heck, I may break down and make that my first proper ruby project. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 22:40:26 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 03:40:26 +0500 Subject: Next meeting Message-ID: Looking at this page: http://tlug.ss.org/meetings/meeting.shtml It appears to be out of date. Looking at a calender, I see that the second Tuesday of this month would be tomorrow. Is there a meeting tomorrow? That page cites this for directions: http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ I used the force, and found GB.. It appears to be a short walk west from Queen's Park station. However that map tells me "No accessible entrances". So.. I guess the question is "how do I get in?". Followed shortly by "is room GB244 easy to find?" and "where's the Mountain Dew?" Sorry for not being omniscient (today), Sy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 22:53:57 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 18:53:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425AEEFC.8020206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <425AEEFC.8020206@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, James Knott wrote: > > rated fireproof only for a specific length of time, and (b) the ratings > > are based on damage to paper, and backup media may be less heat-resistant. > > Do the fire safe companies list specs for other than paper? They're > often used for computer media. My understanding -- caution, this isn't something I've investigated at length -- is that there are standardized tests for paper, but not for backup media. Plus, of course, the numbers for backup media will generally be rather worse: not only is paper fairly tough stuff, but it can char a little and still be usable for most purposes. So there are several reasons why companies might not list numbers other than for paper... Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 11 23:26:25 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 19:26:25 -0400 Subject: growisofs and long filenames In-Reply-To: <20050411210642.GC23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411201024.GA32024@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050411210642.GC23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050411232625.GA32602@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 05:06:42PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 04:10:24PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: >> I think that I'd doing something wrong with growisofs to burn data DVDs. >> I ant to put a mess of files onto a DVD, and that works, but it >> consistently truncates the filenames to 8.3 format, which is, of course, >> crap. >Well it should work. It does here. What do you test on? I'm running an up-to-date Debian testing system, with a DVD burner that I bought for $60 (!) at Canada Computers last week. Your basic +/- dual layer jobie. My test disc copied oddly - my directory of MP3 files - all the files are there, and they all play, but the M3U tags have, in some cases (about half) gone wonky (or just gone) and the filenames are truncated. I wanted to try again, so I ran this: growisofs -dry-run -Z /dev/dvd -R -J /home/media/ And the output is this: Executing 'mkisofs -R -J /home/media/ | builtin_dd of=/dev/dvd obs=32k seek=0 And then a couple of pages of this: Using DIGGI000.MP3;1 for /home/media/folk/digging_a_hole_to_china__ian_north.mp3 Which is, as I understand it, not supposed to happen. Any suggestions? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 00:09:35 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:09:35 -0400 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425B11BF.3040003@sympatico.ca> Sy wrote: >Looking at this page: >http://tlug.ss.org/meetings/meeting.shtml > >It appears to be out of date. Looking at a calender, I see that the >second Tuesday of this month would be tomorrow. Is there a meeting >tomorrow? > > yes >That page cites this for directions: >http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ > >I used the force, and found GB.. It appears to be a short walk west >from Queen's Park station. However that map tells me "No accessible >entrances". > them's car directions ! for the walkin types, go west, young man, from QP station till you come upon the glorious UofT gates, amble north past the engineers "true north" 20 ft long concrete and bronze thingie, make a left, mebbe 47 steps, and the GB is on your left. up the stairs to fl#2 (2xx door #s) right, left, towards the end, right, it's on the left. clear as mud ? seeya there ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 00:15:59 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 05:15:59 +0500 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: <425B11BF.3040003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425B11BF.3040003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 5:09 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > them's car directions ! for the walkin types, go west, young man, from > QP station till you come upon the glorious > UofT gates, amble north past the engineers "true north" 20 ft long > concrete and bronze thingie, make a left, mebbe 47 steps, and the GB is > on your left. up the stairs to fl#2 (2xx door #s) right, left, towards > the end, right, it's on the left. > > clear as mud ? > > seeya there ! Righto, Thanks for the help. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 00:45:29 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:45:29 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Greatvideo server woes] Message-ID: <425B1A29.7020700@sympatico.ca> Hey team ! a client of mine (he; Producer/Director, me; Camera Driod) sent this plea for help. I bet it's a piece o cake for many of the uber-admins who haunt this list. Anyone up for a quick buck ? Contact me off list, djp -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: unknown sender Subject: no subject Date: no date Size: 38 URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 00:51:17 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 20:51:17 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Greatvideo server woes] In-Reply-To: <425B1A29.7020700-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425B1A29.7020700@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425B1B85.8080506@sympatico.ca> Wait, don't tell me, the list can't digest a forwarded message.. OK.. here it is, pasted in; ====== > Hey Dave , you got anybody over at Linux caffe up for this JOB.....??? > G At 1:02 PM -0400 4/11/05, BD wrote: > Hi guys, > > To get your web sites up and running, all I need to do is to add > apache2 configuration entries for your domains. Piece of cake, eh? > Yah, sure. And we also need to get our ftp back... > > Rob's off on his travels, again, and it's too much to expect him to do > this kind of stuff from 30,000 feet. So I'm looking for someone who > can help me.Good, cheap and trustworthy: I'll even settle for two out > of three. Geeks apparently wear glasses and look.. geeky, but that > covers all three of us and when it comes to linux and apache2, we're > pretty useless. If you find someone before I do, though, let me know. > I like this situation just as much as you, maybe even less. > > Cheers! -- B Don't take the stereotypes serious, we all know that "shaggy and wild eyed" is closer to the truth ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:29:28 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:29:28 -0400 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: <425B11BF.3040003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425B11BF.3040003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425B2478.1010501@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > Sy wrote: > > >>Looking at this page: >>http://tlug.ss.org/meetings/meeting.shtml >> >>It appears to be out of date. Looking at a calender, I see that the >>second Tuesday of this month would be tomorrow. Is there a meeting >>tomorrow? >> >> > > yes > > >>That page cites this for directions: >>http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ >> >>I used the force, and found GB.. It appears to be a short walk west > >>from Queen's Park station. However that map tells me "No accessible > >>entrances". >> > > them's car directions ! for the walkin types, go west, young man, from > QP station till you come upon the glorious > UofT gates, amble north past the engineers "true north" 20 ft long > concrete and bronze thingie, make a left, mebbe 47 steps, and the GB is > on your left. up the stairs to fl#2 (2xx door #s) right, left, towards > the end, right, it's on the left. > > clear as mud ? I guess I must have been in the wrong building for all those meetings. ;-) If you head north from College, "GB" is on the right. However, I generally come through "SF", which is on the left, from the walkway, which is before you get to the street GB is on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:34:59 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:34:59 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <4259FC2A.8060003-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org>; from david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org on Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 12:25:14AM -0400 References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <4259FC2A.8060003@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <20050411213459.C10729@leftmind.net> David Thornton wrote: > http://archive.quadratic.net/software/rubberhose/ > > Now with "Smells like deniablity" action. This bit in the README looks like a fatal flaw: "As such, a Rubberhose disk only be written to after all the passphrases have been entered. Everything is works on a "need to know" basis, i.e. each aspect knows nothing about the others other than when to avoid writing over the top of another." Sure, you can mount your "plausible deniability" aspect with something prurient, but it comes up read-only. while(fs_mounted_readonly) { beat_another_passphase_out_of_user(); } and eventually you know you have them all when the whole works finally becomes writable. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:36:22 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:36:22 -0400 Subject: offsite backup In-Reply-To: <20050411110145.kf6508dk1eokkgww-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c53ea6$df236820$0c01a8c0@iqpd6> <20050411110145.kf6508dk1eokkgww@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20050412013622.GA8826@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 11:01:45AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote > Quoting George Fiala : > > >try this site: > > > >http://www.everydaybackup.com > > > there is a number of backup facilicites in Internet, unfortunately, > none of them is free (it was the requirement) I'd be willing to pay, but $1500+tax per year is a bit stiff (yes, I'm looking at over 3 gigs). -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:38:40 2005 From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:38:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: next meeting: what is it about? Message-ID: Who is speaking and what they are speaking about? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:44:27 2005 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:44:27 -0400 Subject: offsite backup In-Reply-To: <20050412013622.GA8826-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <000001c53ea6$df236820$0c01a8c0@iqpd6> <20050411110145.kf6508dk1eokkgww@www.almatau.com> <20050412013622.GA8826@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <1113270267.9201.1.camel@localhost> On Mon, 2005-04-11 at 21:36 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 11:01:45AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote > > Quoting George Fiala : > > > > >try this site: > > > > > >http://www.everydaybackup.com > > > > > there is a number of backup facilicites in Internet, unfortunately, > > none of them is free (it was the requirement) > > I'd be willing to pay, but $1500+tax per year is a bit stiff (yes, I'm > looking at over 3 gigs). www.canaca.com will give you 10 gig for $4 per month if you sign up for a few years. Ftp only, but if you pay a big more, you can get ssh. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:40:51 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:40:51 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 01:05:51AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote > Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox > keep your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? There are a couple of problems with that... 1) A real fire would melt the contents of the strongbox. 2) Assuming it survives, I don't expect the police/fire-dept to allow me to meander through the burned-out hulk of the building. Did I mention that I'm on the 5th floor? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:40:36 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:40:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: More Power Captain! In-Reply-To: <425A7F8B.4060902-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <00a101c53acd$26eb7900$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <425A79D5.3090204@knet.ca> <425A7C4C.5030208@sympatico.ca> <425A7F8B.4060902@knet.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, teddymills wrote: > > I was told it was $100. > Now I was informed it was $131. > > I will pay for the power right now. Teddy can you confirm you paid for the power. I understand you were donating $25 (from your earlier email) which leaces $106 that you are covering on behalf of TLUG. I have in my possession a number of donations to the club to cover power. I am holding $190 in donations to TLUG and will deliver these into the hands of an authorised person tomorrow night. Although originally for power the extra money will be useful in the future. There were other pledges out there too. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:46:52 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:46:52 -0400 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: <425B2478.1010501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <425B11BF.3040003@sympatico.ca> <425B2478.1010501@rogers.com> Message-ID: <425B288C.8060706@utoronto.ca> James Knott wrote: > I guess I must have been in the wrong building for all those meetings. > ;-) > > If you head north from College, "GB" is on the right. However, I > generally come through "SF", which is on the left, from the walkway, > which is before you get to the street GB is on. Galbraith is indeed on the left if you're coming up King's Circle (the route described by David), although it is behind SF from that route. If, on the other hand, you go up St George, then GB will be on your right. Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:51:45 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:51:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Meeting April 12, 2005 Message-ID: Date: April 12, 2005 Time: 7:30pm Speaker: Ulrich Czekalla Topic: WINE/Crossover Office Details: Ulrich will be talking to us about the WINE project and Crossover Office, a commercial package built on WINE which allows Microsoft Office to run seamlessly on Linux Location: Galbraith Building, University of Toronto For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ Room: GB244 I'm a little late getting this one out sorry. This talk was announced at the end of the March talk announcement though. TLUG Talks Maintainer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 01:52:43 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 21:52:43 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411102854.0ow1x78p1bms4ss8@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20050412015243.GC8826@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 10:28:54AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote > Free webmail with 1Gb (and more) storage space. Your data is mostly > static, so occupy available space and let google back it up for > you :-) Google frowns on it and tries to block it. I also have a few gigs of data (yes, *AFTER* compression), so that won't work. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 02:00:51 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:00:51 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411200452.GA17599-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411200452.GA17599@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <425B2BD3.6080002@almatau.com> John Macdonald wrote: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 02:32:07PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > >>On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: >> >>>I never thought about the sandbag thing.. would that actually be of real help? >> >>Anything that helps keep hot air and hot falling debris away from the >>box's surface will help *some*. Note that the other part of that >>suggestion was "basement corner", which puts three of the box's six sides >>against outside surfaces that have lots of thermal inertia and are likely >>to stay relatively cool. > > > A basement corner also has the advantage that in most fires > the last plave to be engulfed will be a basement corner. So, > as long as the fire starts in the opposite quadrant, or gets > put out before the fire spreads badly, that is the location > most likely to survive. > Keeping backups in a basement corner is also a nice riddle for archeologists. It's definitely the best place for media! :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 02:18:59 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:18:59 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050412021859.GD8826@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 07:49:17AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote > I suggest a harddrive in an firewire/usb/dual case. I suggest an > arrangement of at least two such devices with a rule that at least one > must be kept off site at all times. This type of solution is used for > many home users and small businesses. You can easily give yourself > hundreds of GB storage per device and run a full/incremental backup scheme > with a staging area locally. For a $300 initial investment you could > be set for years of safe backups. > > Tiger Direct are currently offering 120GB 5400rpm drives for $49.97 (after > rebate, excluding tax, etc). I was unimpressed with their customer > service recently but the value of these drives for backup devices is hard > to ignore. Since backups would typically happen when you are asleep the > slower rpm of the drive is not a significant issue, IMHO. > > Reference: > http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/Category/category_hdd.asp After looking at this, I'm interested in external 2.5" form factor drives, even though they are pricier. They're supposed to fit in my shirt pock, and will probably fit into my safety-deposit box. I don't mind slow, but I'd like 20 gigs at least. I think I'll start by taking a ruler to the bank and check the interior dimensions of my safety deposit box. Then I'll have something definite to check the size of drives (including enclosure). Does anybody have suggestions about places on "computer row" downtown? I'd like to physically check the size of the enclosure before buying a pair of drives. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 02:22:56 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:22:56 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050412021859.GD8826-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412021859.GD8826@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425B3100.5020407@alteeve.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > After looking at this, I'm interested in external 2.5" form factor > drives, even though they are pricier. They're supposed to fit in my > shirt pock, and will probably fit into my safety-deposit box. I don't > mind slow, but I'd like 20 gigs at least. I think I'll start by taking > a ruler to the bank and check the interior dimensions of my safety > deposit box. Then I'll have something definite to check the size of > drives (including enclosure). > > Does anybody have suggestions about places on "computer row" downtown? > I'd like to physically check the size of the enclosure before buying a > pair of drives. I've had luck with Canada Computers on the south side near the west end of the strip. A word of caution though; I've tries three different types of 2.5" USB2 drive carriers and all three failed to work for my under FC2 and FC3. They would show up, I could format them and I could copy a few files. Once a large copy was under way though they would all lose the drive and fail. This doesn't seem to be a general problem though because I also use the external Kingwin carrier with removable drive bays and they work perfectly. They do sell those as well (and they'll be cheaper because the $$/GB is cheaper for 3.5" drives) and because each drive is removable the carrier is only a little bigger than a 3.5" disk. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 02:28:14 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:28:14 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050412014051.GB8826-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425B323E.5070400@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 01:05:51AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote > >>Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox >>keep your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? > > > There are a couple of problems with that... > > 1) A real fire would melt the contents of the strongbox. > > 2) Assuming it survives, I don't expect the police/fire-dept to allow > me to meander through the burned-out hulk of the building. Did I > mention that I'm on the 5th floor? > Fire safes are rated according to the length of time they can keep temperatures low enough to prevent damage. How long is the relevant question. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 02:40:08 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:40:08 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <200504111522.10051.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411150606.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <425A92E0.1090409@sympatico.ca> <200504111522.10051.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <425B3508.8080106@quadratic.net> The moving target that is gmail's api is as much a threat to a functional backup as any encryption scheme. david Jason Shein wrote: >On April 11, 2005 03:08 pm, David J Patrick wrote: > > >>Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >>>On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 10:42:29AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >>> >>> >>>>can someone suggest a script-based, gmail inclined, middle of the night, >>>>cron-ified backup strategy ? >>>>There should be some provision for file encryption, and perhaps a backup >>>>file rotation/deletion scheme. Is there a published API ? >>>> >>>> >>>Maybe using gmailfs? >>> >>> >>I'll bite; what's gmailfs ? >>djp >>-- >> >> > >http://richard.jones.name/google-hacks/gmail-filesystem/gmail-filesystem.html > >-snip- >Saturday January 29th 2005 >The author of libgmail has updated the library to deal with recent changes in >Gmail. This should resolve the problems recently experienced by Gmail >Filesystem users. The most recent version of libgmail from CVS is required >for Gmail Filesystem to operate correctly. >-snip- > >Dont know if it is still functional > > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 02:52:50 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:52:50 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411192145.GA31783-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <425B3802.7040404@quadratic.net> William O'Higgins wrote: >On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 02:24:05PM -0400, Sy wrote: > > > >>Previously, I had done a little bit of exploring into various kinds of >>data synchronization applications.. I looked at softraid solutions and >>even at cvs-like solutions. I hated all of it and never found >>something I liked. I ended up doing things the slow and thorough way. >> >> > >I've been using subversion to keep laptop and desktop versioned and >synchronous, and while it's far from flawless, it does work all right. >That said, it's a good ten minutes to synch my ~/Mail tree (500Mb). > > > >>Something which might be interesting to consider would be to >>heavily-encrypt the data and then a community could provide mutual >>remotely synchronized offsite backups. I'd be willing to buy hard >>drives to do something like this. >> >>Heck, I can even imagine a p2p secure backup project for this idea. >> >>Oh.. and hi everyone.. I'm new. =) >> >> > >Hi :-) You type really well for a new person - when I was new I >couldn't reliably find the keyboard, or even stop drooling. > >Seriously though, take a look at the LOCKSS[1] program - it is probably >adaptable to an encrypted setup that provides sufficient security >against casual malfeasance. If the police or CSIS want the data you >will have some explaining to do if they show up with a production order >or a warrant and you don't think they have the right to your >computer/hard drive. Plausible deniability may be worth designing into >a system. > >[1] Lots Of Copies Keep Stuff Safe: http://lockss.stanford.edu/ > > When it comes to Plausible deniability you could use rubberhose http://www.mirrors.wiretapped.net/security/cryptography/filesystems/rubberhose/rubberhose-README.txt http://archive.quadratic.net/software/rubberhose/ Did I post this already? I can't find a digital record of posting it; but I can find the memory of posting it. Must be getting old. david -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 02:56:17 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 22:56:17 -0400 Subject: offsite backup In-Reply-To: <1113270267.9201.1.camel@localhost> References: <000001c53ea6$df236820$0c01a8c0@iqpd6> <20050411110145.kf6508dk1eokkgww@www.almatau.com> <20050412013622.GA8826@waltdnes.org> <1113270267.9201.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <425B38D1.5080606@quadratic.net> gimme a break. little bits of free shell + storage are all over the net. google://free shell david Austin wrote: >On Mon, 2005-04-11 at 21:36 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > >>On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 11:01:45AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote >> >> >>>Quoting George Fiala : >>> >>> >>> >>>>try this site: >>>> >>>>http://www.everydaybackup.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>there is a number of backup facilicites in Internet, unfortunately, >>>none of them is free (it was the requirement) >>> >>> >> I'd be willing to pay, but $1500+tax per year is a bit stiff (yes, I'm >>looking at over 3 gigs). >> >> > >www.canaca.com will give you 10 gig for $4 per month if you sign up for >a few years. Ftp only, but if you pay a big more, you can get ssh. > >Austin > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 03:00:55 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:00:55 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050411213459.C10729-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <4259FC2A.8060003@quadratic.net> <20050411213459.C10729@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <425B39E7.8010605@quadratic.net> My goodness that seems bad. This looks like a job for "Testing testing testing man"!!! Now where did I put my "Testing testing testing man" tights and cape? Oh right they are in the firesafe crate. david Anthony de Boer wrote: >David Thornton wrote: > > >>http://archive.quadratic.net/software/rubberhose/ >> >>Now with "Smells like deniablity" action. >> >> > >This bit in the README looks like a fatal flaw: > > "As such, a Rubberhose disk only be written to after all the > passphrases have been entered. Everything is works on a "need to know" > basis, i.e. each aspect knows nothing about the others other than when > to avoid writing over the top of another." > >Sure, you can mount your "plausible deniability" aspect with something >prurient, but it comes up read-only. > >while(fs_mounted_readonly) { > beat_another_passphase_out_of_user(); > } > >and eventually you know you have them all when the whole works finally >becomes writable. > > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 03:14:59 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:14:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050412021859.GD8826-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412021859.GD8826@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > After looking at this, I'm interested in external 2.5" form factor > drives, even though they are pricier. They're supposed to fit in my The 2.5" models also have the advantage that they do not require an external pwoer adapter (at least this applies to the ones I've seen). Having said this I standardised on the 3.5" mainly because it was so much easier to get really large drives. > shirt pock, and will probably fit into my safety-deposit box. I don't > mind slow, but I'd like 20 gigs at least. I think I'll start by taking > a ruler to the bank and check the interior dimensions of my safety > deposit box. Then I'll have something definite to check the size of > drives (including enclosure). > > Does anybody have suggestions about places on "computer row" downtown? You can scan the lot in about 25 minutes. This is what I do when I want to buy an item like this. I might save 10%. > I'd like to physically check the size of the enclosure before buying a > pair of drives. In my experience (or various models) I'd say it is ok to assume the case is 5% larger than the drive itself in each dimension[1]. [1] Except maybe time, I haven't figured that out yet :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 03:31:21 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:31:21 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412021859.GD8826@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425B4109.8080907@alteeve.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, Walter Dnes wrote: > > >> After looking at this, I'm interested in external 2.5" form factor >>drives, even though they are pricier. They're supposed to fit in my > > > The 2.5" models also have the advantage that they do not require an > external pwoer adapter (at least this applies to the ones I've seen). > > Having said this I standardised on the 3.5" mainly because it was so much > easier to get really large drives. This is true *if* your USB port can supply 500mA/port which many laptops don't. For the ones that don't though there is usually a pass-through cable that will get some extra power from a secondary USB port and plug into the carrier along side the data cable. My PCMCIA usb2 cars also came with power adapters that plug into either the card or directly into the drive itself. If you are running on a desktop though you are probably fine power-wise. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 03:33:15 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 11 Apr 2005 23:33:15 -0400 Subject: Hello everyone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050412033314.GE8826@waltdnes.org> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 03:33:40PM -0400, Sy wrote > Hi guys.. I thought I'd write a story to say hello. > > > In the beginning, I fell in love with DOS (mostly thanks to 4DOS). I > BBSed on a 300 baud acoustically-coupled modem on a 286 when people > were debating over the speed differences of a 486 vs the new pentium > 60s. 14.4 modems were out back then. I didn't care.. I didn't even > understand the fashion of colour monitors. Here's my story. I started out in 1983 on an Apple ][+ clone, and BBS's and Compuserve. I did OK in CP/M. My first PC was a 10mhz AT clone. I liked the DOS command line. As Windows gradually replaced DOS, I found that I disliked email and usenet news in a GUI. Back then, good video cards were expensive, and I *HATED* "black" text on a white background, because I could see the shimmer on the screen. It was murder on my eyes. I tried to do as much as possible in DOS boxes. Approx 1997, spam was starting to become a nuisance. The ISP I was with, Interlog, had a menu-driven procmail filter. They also had shell accounts. I joined the procmail mailing list and dug deeper into procmail, and did quite a bit of testing and general screwing around at the unix command prompt. I got basic familiarity with the unix commandline and I fell in love with it. Sort of my beloved DOS commandline, but on steroids. The only problem was that this testing was eating into my monthly quota of dialup hours. I got a new computer with Win98SE in Sept 99. This left me with the old Win95 machine kicking around. I had read on the procmail list that people were running procmail on linux. So I went out and bought an intro to linux with Redhat CDs (version 5.2, I think). I installed on the older PC without incident and started playing around with procmail. This solved the ISP-hours problem. I was testing offline on the old machine, rather than online. To get the exact filtering I wanted, I'd download my email, unfiltered, to the Windows machine, and then copied it via floppy to the linux machine for procmail filtering. After that, I'd copy the filtered email via floppy back to the Windows machine. Reading through the linux intro, I realized that linux wasn't just a server OS. It had email and usenet news clients. And they were in good ole textmode. Plus I could save myself the clunky back-and-forth email copying, if I dialed up via the linux machine, instead of the Windows machine. Netscape 4.x worked OK, but the office apps were quite primitive back then. So I kept Win98SE with the Office 97 I had bought for the Win95 machine. Fast-forward to Redhat 7.3. That was *THE* best consumer version Redhat ever put out. But then they developed the Microsoft disease and put out fat bloated RH8.0 and 9.0. By that time I was running strictly linux on two machines. I tried 8.0 and 9.0 on my test machine, and soon re-formatted, and re-installed 7.3. Redhat announced the end of RH7.3 support would occur Dec 31, 2003. I switched over to Debian approx Sept 2003. That worked OK until summer of 2004. Debian Stable was still the same version, and the latest Firefox and RealPlayer refused to install because the Debian GTK and glibc were really old versions. I switched over to CRUX linux (which I had tried previously), just to be able to run the latest Firefox and RealPlayer. It's sort of a halfway to Gentoo distro, with everything compiled "-O2 -march=i686". Dependancy management was better than Redhat, but still not good enough for me. When I asked about more optimization to my machine, people told me that I was really looking for Gentoo. I installed it on a beat-up old test machine. Just for kicks, I put it through the "dependancy torture test". I compiled a basic Gentoo with text-console only, no X Window gui at all. Then I asked it to install GIMP. Redhat linux would've told me to get lost. Gentoo downloaded and built X, along with the necessary support libraries, plus GNOME and other necessary libraries, then it built GIMP. The following morning, I had a working X and a working GIMP. That blew my mind. So I'm running Gentoo right now. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 04:21:33 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 00:21:33 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Greatvideo server woes] In-Reply-To: <425B1B85.8080506-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425B1A29.7020700@sympatico.ca> <425B1B85.8080506@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425B4CCD.90101@sympatico.ca> [replying to himself again] OK, if ya wanna tackle this wee server crisis, for cash and kudos, send "proof of geekyness" to; ben-ssAOFsm0gL5kA4s6NEpZHg at public.gmane.org djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 07:29:57 2005 From: tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org (Andy Ransom) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 03:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Quick Hello Message-ID: Hi, My name is Andy Ransom and I'm visiting Toronto from the UK. I'm an active member of the Hampshire LUG (http://hantslug.org.uk) and I'm hoping to make the TLUG meeting Tuesday evening (mainly assuming I can find the place:). One quick question about the meeting, roughly how long will it last? Hope to see some of you tonight. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 09:16:07 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:16:07 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425B323E.5070400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425B323E.5070400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__26544.4584693343$1113297233$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Mon, 11 Apr 2005, James Knott wrote: > Fire safes are rated according to the length of time they can keep > temperatures low enough to prevent damage. How long is the relevant > question. No, how low is the question in this case. Paper will not mind 150C for a few tens of minutes. Do that with a cdrom or tape for one minute and it's history. Incidentally, hard disks should be able to take 150C for some time (on your responsability). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 10:28:01 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:28:01 +0500 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: <425B288C.8060706-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <425B11BF.3040003@sympatico.ca> <425B2478.1010501@rogers.com> <425B288C.8060706@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 6:46 AM, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > James Knott wrote: > > > I guess I must have been in the wrong building for all those meetings. > > ;-) > > > > If you head north from College, "GB" is on the right. However, I > > generally come through "SF", which is on the left, from the walkway, > > which is before you get to the street GB is on. > > Galbraith is indeed on the left if you're coming up King's Circle (the > route described by David), although it is behind SF from that route. If, > on the other hand, you go up St George, then GB will be on your right. > Is it ok if I just hold up a sign saying "I use Linux, I need a hug!"? ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 10:42:15 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:42:15 +0500 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425B3802.7040404-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425B3802.7040404@quadratic.net> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 7:52 AM, David Thornton wrote: > When it comes to Plausible deniability you could use rubberhose > > http://www.mirrors.wiretapped.net/security/cryptography/filesystems/rubberhose/rubberhose-README.txt > > http://archive.quadratic.net/software/rubberhose/ I've got a thing when it comes to using a dead project for backups or encryption. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 10:44:11 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:44:11 +0500 Subject: Quick Hello In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am also new.. so you won't be alone in your newness. ;) On Apr 12, 2005 12:29 PM, Andy Ransom wrote: > > Hi, > > My name is Andy Ransom and I'm visiting Toronto from the UK. > > I'm an active member of the Hampshire LUG (http://hantslug.org.uk) and I'm > hoping to make the TLUG meeting Tuesday evening (mainly assuming I can > find the place:). > > One quick question about the meeting, roughly how long will it last? > > Hope to see some of you tonight. > > Andy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 10:59:23 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 06:59:23 -0400 Subject: Hello everyone In-Reply-To: <20050412033314.GE8826-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050412033314.GE8826@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425BAA0B.3020809@rogers.com> Walter Dnes wrote: > On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 03:33:40PM -0400, Sy wrote > >>Hi guys.. I thought I'd write a story to say hello. >> >> >>In the beginning, I fell in love with DOS (mostly thanks to 4DOS). I >>BBSed on a 300 baud acoustically-coupled modem on a 286 when people >>were debating over the speed differences of a 486 vs the new pentium >>60s. 14.4 modems were out back then. I didn't care.. I didn't even >>understand the fashion of colour monitors. > > > Here's my story. I started out in 1983 on an Apple ][+ clone, and > BBS's and Compuserve. I did OK in CP/M. My first PC was a 10mhz AT > clone. I liked the DOS command line. As Windows gradually replaced > DOS, I found that I disliked email and usenet news in a GUI. Back then, > good video cards were expensive, and I *HATED* "black" text on a white > background, because I could see the shimmer on the screen. It was > murder on my eyes. I tried to do as much as possible in DOS boxes. I started out with my first computer, an IMSAI 8080, with Scelbi software, in 1976. Then I started working with VAX/VMS on a Vax 11/780 (at work, I didn't have one at home ). After that, I bought an XT clone and downgraded to DOS. After a few years of trying to get it to do more than it was capable of, I bought a 386 and switched to OS/2, which I used for many years (I even did 3rd level OS/2 support & integration testing at IBM). Then a few years ago, I started expermenting with Linux and then switched to it about 3 years ago. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 12:54:33 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 08:54:33 -0400 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: <425B11BF.3040003@sympatico.ca> <425B2478.1010501@rogers.com> <425B288C.8060706@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <425BC509.1040709@sympatico.ca> Sy wrote: > Is it ok if I just hold up a sign saying "I use Linux, I need a hug!"? ;) Uh.. sure Sy, that might work, OTOH, after a couple hours in the cold, start a console and enter; "apropos lost" "slocate friends" "man tlug" "whereis gb.244" and "whoami -anyways" djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 13:09:30 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:09:30 -0400 Subject: Quick Hello In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425BC88A.6020504@sympatico.ca> Andy Ransom wrote: >Hi, > >My name is Andy Ransom and I'm visiting Toronto from the UK. > > blimey ! >I'm >hoping to make the TLUG meeting Tuesday evening (mainly assuming I can >find the place:). > > OK, to make it really easy (if round about) 1) find subway (ask anybody) 2) find Queens Park station (read maps, or ask anybody) 3) find UofT (walk west ~120 steps, ask anybody) 4) find Galbraith building (ask anybody on campus, under 30) 5) find room 244 (room # < 200 ? go up stairs, > 300 ? go down stairs) If you're driving, you're on your own, but PLEASE PLEASE stay on the right side of the road ! >One quick question about the meeting, roughly how long will it last? > > Until linux is fully mainstream, or until the borg has assimilated every last one of us (see: hell freezes over !) cheers, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 13:15:41 2005 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:15:41 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <20050412014051.GB8826-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Get a waterproof box or container of some kind....and drop it into your toilet tank.(the large one :) As long as your container is waterproof, your data would be safe. from almost any fire. Water would also dissipate the heat. Plus you would save on your water bill, and not waste so much water. If that doesnt work, go industrial. find a large metal container, as large as needed, (45 gallon oil drum if need be, or flatter rectangular shaped) and use that. Just thought that one up! Walter Dnes wrote: >On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 01:05:51AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote > > >>Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox >>keep your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? >> >> > > There are a couple of problems with that... > > 1) A real fire would melt the contents of the strongbox. > > 2) Assuming it survives, I don't expect the police/fire-dept to allow > me to meander through the burned-out hulk of the building. Did I > mention that I'm on the 5th floor? > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 13:52:10 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:52:10 -0400 Subject: Next meeting In-Reply-To: References: <425B11BF.3040003@sympatico.ca> <425B2478.1010501@rogers.com> <425B288C.8060706@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 6:28 AM, Sy wrote: > > Is it ok if I just hold up a sign saying "I use Linux, I need a hug!"? ;) > Ok, I understand how to get there. The only possible difficulties would be either identifying GB or finding the room therein. http://sysy.homeip.net/mw/index.php/Directions_to_TLUG -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 13:58:13 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 09:58:13 -0400 Subject: Quick Hello In-Reply-To: <425BC88A.6020504-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425BC88A.6020504@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 9:09 AM, David J Patrick wrote: >One quick question about the meeting, roughly how long will it last? This I am also interested in. How long have your past meetings been? Also.. what should I bring? Can I bring munchies? How many people will be attending? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 14:06:13 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:06:13 -0400 Subject: growisofs and long filenames In-Reply-To: <20050411232625.GA32602-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411201024.GA32024@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050411210642.GC23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050411232625.GA32602@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050412140611.GE23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 07:26:25PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I'm running an up-to-date Debian testing system, with a DVD burner that > I bought for $60 (!) at Canada Computers last week. Your basic +/- dual > layer jobie. > > My test disc copied oddly - my directory of MP3 files - all the files > are there, and they all play, but the M3U tags have, in some cases > (about half) gone wonky (or just gone) and the filenames are truncated. > I wanted to try again, so I ran this: > > growisofs -dry-run -Z /dev/dvd -R -J /home/media/ > > And the output is this: > > Executing 'mkisofs -R -J /home/media/ | builtin_dd of=/dev/dvd obs=32k > seek=0 > > And then a couple of pages of this: > > Using DIGGI000.MP3;1 for > /home/media/folk/digging_a_hole_to_china__ian_north.mp3 > > Which is, as I understand it, not supposed to happen. Any suggestions? That is very much _supposed_ to happen. It has to generate an 8.3 name for each file so that they can be stored on the CD for all systems to read. Those that support Joliet extensions will read the long names through that, and those that support Rock Ridge extensions will convert the names to long filenames through that. If a system doesn't support either extension system, it gets the generated short names. If you plopped it in some mp3 playing device (like a dvd player or something) which doesn't support either of the filename extensions, then you will get 8.3 names. If it has limits on the mp3 id tags, then it will truncate those too. What does it say if you mount the cd on linux? does it have long filenames? Does an mp3 tag reader show the tags as you expect? If so, then (as is most likely) the target device is at fault and you did everything right. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 14:07:09 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:07:09 -0400 Subject: Quick Hello In-Reply-To: References: <425BC88A.6020504@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425BD60D.2040601@sympatico.ca> Sy wrote: >On Apr 12, 2005 9:09 AM, David J Patrick wrote: > > >>One quick question about the meeting, roughly how long will it last? >> >> > >This I am also interested in. How long have your past meetings been? > > ~90min of highly technichal droning, punctuated by heckling and hissing whenever "the monopoly" is mentioned, followd by 2.3 hours of beer drinking and exageration. > >Also.. what should I bring? Can I bring munchies? > > got enough to share ? then yes ! will it be extremely crunchy and/or in loud crinkly packaging ? then no ! >How many people will be attending? > > ~37 djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 14:26:58 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:26:58 -0400 Subject: freelancers ? Message-ID: <425BDAB2.6080808@sympatico.ca> Are there any capable sysadmins on the list who are available, on short notice, to dive into challenging situations for cash ? You know, freelancers ! If there are, I have a client in need of such services, with emphasis on apache and mail setup, ASAP. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 14:30:32 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: TLUG Meeting Tue Apr 12. In-Reply-To: <1113280442.5104.111.camel-ccvjzJVizCz5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <1113280442.5104.111.camel@pentagon.ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Drew Sullivan wrote: > Date: April 12, 2005 > > Time: 7:30pm > > Speaker: ? > > Topic: We will figure out something. > > Details: Bring questions. > > Location: Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > > For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ Drew are you presient? :) We had a speaker but I can't contact him. An alternative is being organised. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 14:35:21 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:35:21 -0400 Subject: freelancers ? In-Reply-To: <425BDAB2.6080808-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425BDAB2.6080808@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425BDCA9.7000803@istop.com> Can do such things. Actually, right now I work part-time as a sysadmin (and web developer also) at a sort of ISP company. Today shall be back at home in the evening. zb. David J Patrick wrote: > Are there any capable sysadmins on the list who are available, on short > notice, to dive into challenging situations for cash ? You know, > freelancers ! > If there are, I have a client in need of such services, with emphasis on > apache and mail setup, ASAP. > djp > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 14:50:08 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 10:50:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Meeting April 12, 2005 (New Speaker) Message-ID: Date: April 12, 2005 Time: 7:30pm Speaker: Andrew Cowie Topic: Tales from the Dark Side of the Moon Details: Andrew has kindly offered to jump in at the last minute as a replacement speaker. Andrew has advised he may even take requests from the audience. Location: Galbraith Building, University of Toronto For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ Room: GB244 TLUG Talks maintainer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 15:23:37 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:23:37 -0400 Subject: growisofs and long filenames In-Reply-To: <20050412140611.GE23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411201024.GA32024@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050411210642.GC23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050411232625.GA32602@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050412140611.GE23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050412152337.GB3596@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 10:06:13AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> growisofs -dry-run -Z /dev/dvd -R -J /home/media/ >> >> And the output is this: >> >> Executing 'mkisofs -R -J /home/media/ | builtin_dd of=/dev/dvd obs=32k >> seek=0 >> >> And then a couple of pages of this: >> >> Using DIGGI000.MP3;1 for >> /home/media/folk/digging_a_hole_to_china__ian_north.mp3 >> >> Which is, as I understand it, not supposed to happen. Any suggestions? > >That is very much _supposed_ to happen. It has to generate an 8.3 name >for each file so that they can be stored on the CD for all systems to >read. Those that support Joliet extensions will read the long names >through that, and those that support Rock Ridge extensions will convert >the names to long filenames through that. If a system doesn't support >either extension system, it gets the generated short names. Okay, so I'm an utter ninny (not news, but there's new people on the list). The filenames show up fine. What doesn't are the MP3 tag files - they seem to be, for about half of the tracks, not gone but borked when read by XMMS. I'm not going to freak out my housemates by playing music on my home desktop via SSH, so I'll have to wait until I get home to do some more looking. Thanks for the help, as always. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 15:50:57 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:50:57 -0400 Subject: freelancers ? In-Reply-To: <425BDAB2.6080808-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425BDAB2.6080808@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050412155057.GA2112@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 10:26:58AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Are there any capable sysadmins on the list who are available, on > short notice, to dive into challenging situations for cash ? You know, > freelancers ! If there are, I have a client in need of such services, > with emphasis on apache and mail setup, ASAP. That's sort of vague. More details? - what mail software do they want? Sendmail, Postbreak? - what kind of Apache setup? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 15:56:27 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:56:27 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <425BC9FD.7040909-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Message-ID: The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time. A REALLY hot fire is hard to protect against. However, most residential fires I've seen were only really hot in the small area where the fire started and the rest of the building was quickly extinguished. If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). -Joseph- On Apr 12, 2005 9:15 AM, teddymills wrote: > > Get a waterproof box or container of some kind....and drop it into your > toilet tank.(the large one :) > As long as your container is waterproof, your data would be safe. from > almost any fire. > Water would also dissipate the heat. > Plus you would save on your water bill, and not waste so much water. > > If that doesnt work, go industrial. find a large metal container, as > large as needed, > (45 gallon oil drum if need be, or flatter rectangular shaped) and use > that. > > Just thought that one up! > > Walter Dnes wrote: > > >On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 01:05:51AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote > > > > > >>Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox > >>keep your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? > >> > >> > > > > There are a couple of problems with that... > > > > 1) A real fire would melt the contents of the strongbox. > > > > 2) Assuming it survives, I don't expect the police/fire-dept to allow > > me to meander through the burned-out hulk of the building. Did I > > mention that I'm on the 5th floor? > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 15:57:27 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 11:57:27 -0400 Subject: freelancers ? In-Reply-To: <20050412155057.GA2112-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425BDAB2.6080808@sympatico.ca> <20050412155057.GA2112@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: What sort of deadlines? On Apr 12, 2005 11:50 AM, William Park wrote: > On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 10:26:58AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > Are there any capable sysadmins on the list who are available, on > > short notice, to dive into challenging situations for cash ? You know, > > freelancers ! If there are, I have a client in need of such services, > > with emphasis on apache and mail setup, ASAP. > > That's sort of vague. More details? > - what mail software do they want? Sendmail, Postbreak? > - what kind of Apache setup? > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > Slackware Linux -- because it works. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 16:17:51 2005 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:17:51 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Message-ID: <425BF4AF.5090006@knet.ca> JK writes... The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time.. teddy writes.. Where did you get this information from ??? I would think anything that is used to build kilns from would be pretty fire retardant. Joseph Kubik wrote: >The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time. >A REALLY hot fire is hard to protect against. However, most >residential fires I've seen were only really hot in the small area >where the fire started and the rest of the building was quickly >extinguished. > >If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work >well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it >needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). > >-Joseph- > >On Apr 12, 2005 9:15 AM, teddymills wrote: > > >>Get a waterproof box or container of some kind....and drop it into your >>toilet tank.(the large one :) >>As long as your container is waterproof, your data would be safe. from >>almost any fire. >>Water would also dissipate the heat. >>Plus you would save on your water bill, and not waste so much water. >> >>If that doesnt work, go industrial. find a large metal container, as >>large as needed, >>(45 gallon oil drum if need be, or flatter rectangular shaped) and use >>that. >> >>Just thought that one up! >> >>Walter Dnes wrote: >> >> >> >>>On Mon, Apr 11, 2005 at 01:05:51AM -0400, John Vetterli wrote >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>Just wondering: would keeping CDs and DVDs in a fireproof strongbox >>>>keep your data safe and readable if there was a major fire? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> There are a couple of problems with that... >>> >>> 1) A real fire would melt the contents of the strongbox. >>> >>> 2) Assuming it survives, I don't expect the police/fire-dept to allow >>> me to meander through the burned-out hulk of the building. Did I >>> mention that I'm on the 5th floor? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michaelgalea-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 16:27:20 2005 From: michaelgalea-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A at public.gmane.org (Michael Galea) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:27:20 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425AF42C.7070409@rogers.com> Message-ID: <425BF6E8.3030604@ruggedcom.com> Sy wrote: > On Apr 12, 2005 3:03 AM, James Knott wrote: > >>Sy wrote: >> >>>I'm not concerned about speed, only safety and functionality. >>>Subversion seems a bit overblown for this kind of need. I will look >>>into some sort of rsync type thingemy. Although I do kinda want to be >>>able to plug in a backup device, do some checking, and learn what >>>files have changed since my last revision.. it would be a valuable >>>intrusion detection system. >> >>Then, why not just copy to CD and leave them with someone? You can >>always encrypt the data, if you're worried about security. > > > It's the stupidest thing, but I think the best solution is to cart > around a hard drive every so often and leave it at the office. That's > a solution that was staring me in the face.. =) Thats what I do. I use a spare drive mounted in one of those removable IDE trays. Every three weeks or so I power down, insert drive, power up, image, power down and remove the drive. And what I get is a complete bootable image. It goes back to work the next day. > > Sometimes I wonder that I'm too used to doing things the hard way. =/ > > I already did some minor looking into USB devices and all that.. but > nowadays a good distro will support hotplugging usb devices out of the > box, so I should be good. I figure a usb enclosure will do what I > need.. then all I need is some intelligent updating/backup software. > Heck, I may break down and make that my first proper ruby project. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Michael Galea 64 Jardin Drive, Unit 3G Concord, Ontario, Canada, L4K 3P3 Telephone: (905) 760-7799 Ext. 245 Fax (905) 760-9909 email: michaelgalea-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A at public.gmane.org web site: www.ruggedcom.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 16:37:12 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:37:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Meeting April 12, 2005 (New Speaker) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Will someone be at the meeting tonight to collect my donation for powering the booth? JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 16:53:31 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:53:31 -0400 Subject: Meeting April 12, 2005 (New Speaker) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425BFD0B.6030104@sympatico.ca> John Vetterli wrote: > Will someone be at the meeting tonight to collect my donation for > powering the booth? I'll be at the meeting and seeing Robert B on Wednesday, so you can slap it in my hot little hand. make cheques payable to CASH ! ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:02:06 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:02:06 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <425BF4AF.5090006-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> <425BF4AF.5090006@knet.ca> Message-ID: <1113325326.6535.4.camel@localhost> On Tue, 2005-04-12 at 12:17 -0400, teddymills wrote: > Where did you get this information from ??? > I would think anything that is used to build kilns from would be > pretty fire retardant. > Toilet bowls and tanks aren't really ceramic. They are made from plaster of paris and only have a very thin ceramic or sometimes polymer skin. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:05:02 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:05:02 -0400 Subject: flood of freelancers ! Message-ID: <425BFFBE.4090906@sympatico.ca> Thanks to all who responded to the sysadmin SOS ! It seems the early bird catches the worm, and Ben latched on to a helpful hacker who replied in the middle of the night. It's great to see the linux community so ready to help, and I believe the eploding linux user-base will need this sort of thing a lot. Once the new-and-improved linuxcaffe.ca is up, I would like to offer anyone with skills-for-hire a spot at (the not yet existent) www.linuxcaffe.ca/support/ page. We can jaw about that this evening. Thanks again, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:11:32 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:11:32 -0400 Subject: Offsite- not the toilet ! In-Reply-To: <425BC9FD.7040909-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Message-ID: <425C0144.7070101@sympatico.ca> teddymills wrote: > > Get a waterproof box or container of some kind....and drop it into > your toilet tank. A most interesting suggestion, Teddy, but the paranoid pyros have some good points and the consensus seems to be; Don't put your sensitive data backups in the toilet ! hmm ! learn something /every day/ ! ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:24:03 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:24:03 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425B3802.7040404@quadratic.net> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__12773.3880108737$1113326510$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > On Apr 12, 2005 7:52 AM, David Thornton wrote: > >> When it comes to Plausible deniability you could use rubberhose >> >> http://www.mirrors.wiretapped.net/security/cryptography/filesystems/rubberhose/rubberhose-README.txt >> >> http://archive.quadratic.net/software/rubberhose/ > > I've got a thing when it comes to using a dead project for backups or > encryption. =/ Then maybe you should consider another OS since linux was declared 'dead' several times and most of the command line applications have been 'frozen' since the early 1990's ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:27:31 2005 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:27:31 -0400 Subject: Meeting April 12, 2005 (New Speaker) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1113326851.5263.10.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com> On Tue, 2005-12-04 at 10:50 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Topic: Tales from the Dark Side of the Moon The abstract for this one follows; but as Robert says, I've a decent quiver of presentations to draw from, so we can always pick something that is of interest. "Tales from the Dark Side of the Moon" What it actually takes to successfully deploy and maintain open source software. Abstract: No one tells you about this part. Deciding to use Linux and other Open Source software is easy. Actually deploying, maintaining, sustaining, and above all using open source software to meet your business's needs - now that's hard. How to accomplish these things is a mystery for most organizations. There is the issue of skills - what sort of people are you going to need maintain your systems and grow them to meet future needs? And the systems themselves? What architecture ties them together? You need to design your infrastructure and processes so that you can sustain them cost effectively. The darkest secret of all is that it's really about the software at all - instead, you need to build a culture of operations professionalism in your company or organization. By concentrating on what is important instead of what is urgent, you can stop fighting fires and start making a difference. Using Open Source software is the cornerstone of making this possible, but to succeed takes more than good intentions. We'll discuss what you need to put in place to leverage the strengths FOSS without getting bogged down by the ever-present pitfalls of technology. Given the crowd of old hands in TLUG, I'd certainly be interested to hear people's views on some of the themes here, I have every intention of provoking a lively discussion. See you tonight. AfC Toronto P.S. Always happy to sign GPG keys - bring your fingerprint and some ID if interested. -- Andrew Frederick Cowie Management Consultant Technology strategy, managing change, establishing procedures, and executing successful upgrades to mission critical business infrastructure. http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ Sydney New York Toronto London -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:35:06 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:35:06 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__36714.1727278524$1113327247$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Joseph Kubik wrote: > The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time. > A REALLY hot fire is hard to protect against. However, most > residential fires I've seen were only really hot in the small area > where the fire started and the rest of the building was quickly > extinguished. > > If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work > well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it > needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). Why are you making this so hard. Dig a 1 meter deep hole (6 inches diameter), put the things to be saved in a stainless or plastic hermetically closed can, and put it in the hole. If you have drain arrangements for rainwater you already have a hole probably. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:37:20 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:37:20 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <425BF4AF.5090006-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> <425BF4AF.5090006@knet.ca> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__35480.3961389281$1113327331$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, teddymills wrote: > JK writes... > The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time.. > > teddy writes.. > > Where did you get this information from ??? > I would think anything that is used to build kilns from would be pretty fire > retardant. The kilns are built of firebrick which is not the same with the ceramic used for toilet bowls and the like. Decorative ceramic tiles on the outside of a kiln that is run hard will often develop cracks in time. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:43:03 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:43:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <1113325326.6535.4.camel@localhost> References: <1113325326.6535.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, John McGregor wrote: > > I would think anything that is used to build kilns from would be > > pretty fire retardant. > > Toilet bowls and tanks aren't really ceramic. They are made from plaster > of paris and only have a very thin ceramic or sometimes polymer skin. At least the older ones are entirely ceramic... but "ceramic" is like "metal", it's a very generic term for a wide class of materials. There are metals that will melt in the palm of your hand. There are others that will stay solid at blinding white heat. Same story for ceramics: the fact that you can build kilns with *some* ceramics says nothing about the heat resistance of ceramic toilet tanks. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:44:07 2005 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:44:07 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Message-ID: <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On April 12, 2005 01:35 pm, Peter wrote: > On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time. > > A REALLY hot fire is hard to protect against. However, most > > residential fires I've seen were only really hot in the small area > > where the fire started and the rest of the building was quickly > > extinguished. > > > > If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work > > well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it > > needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). > > Why are you making this so hard. Dig a 1 meter deep hole (6 inches > diameter), put the things to be saved in a stainless or plastic > hermetically closed can, and put it in the hole. If you have drain > arrangements for rainwater you already have a hole probably. great idea... if you have a back yard. -- no one can make you feel inferior without your consent. - eleonor Roosevelt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:47:02 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:47:02 -0400 Subject: freelancers ? In-Reply-To: References: <425BDAB2.6080808@sympatico.ca> <20050412155057.GA2112@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <425C0996.5000009@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 What kind of money? If the company has enough technical savy to appreciate the real value of free software, then chances are they have enough savy and contacts to recruit directly from the community. Which leaves the small companies that go with free software do it because they're looking to save money on the initial purchase price. Anyone who knows anything about IT will tell you that the initial purchase price is almost never a significant portion of TCO for a system which actually works. The vast majority of cost comes from the geek who makes it work. And if they're trying to save a couple of thousand on licenses then chances are they're not going to be willing to pay the kind of money required to really make it work. In terms of career moves, it's not especially clever to connect yourself to projects that are doomed from the start. Drew Joseph Kubik wrote: > What sort of deadlines? > > On Apr 12, 2005 11:50 AM, William Park wrote: > >>On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 10:26:58AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >> >>>Are there any capable sysadmins on the list who are available, on >>>short notice, to dive into challenging situations for cash ? You know, >>>freelancers ! If there are, I have a client in need of such services, >>>with emphasis on apache and mail setup, ASAP. >> >>That's sort of vague. More details? >> - what mail software do they want? Sendmail, Postbreak? >> - what kind of Apache setup? >> >>-- >>William Park , Toronto, Canada >>Slackware Linux -- because it works. >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCXAmVgfzn5SevSpoRAqB/AJ9gYY3WXcbc3bSMecTEniZJ0aJicACgs4K6 y8AyLUr3ErynBFp2N6gqkmk= =TPIa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 17:51:03 2005 From: tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org (Andy Ransom) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 13:51:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Quick Hello In-Reply-To: <425BC88A.6020504-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425BC88A.6020504@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Hi, On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > OK, to make it really easy (if round about) > 1) find subway (ask anybody) > 2) find Queens Park station (read maps, or ask anybody) > 3) find UofT (walk west ~120 steps, ask anybody) > 4) find Galbraith building (ask anybody on campus, under 30) > 5) find room 244 (room # < 200 ? go up stairs, > 300 ? go down stairs) Thanks. > If you're driving, Nope I'll be on foot/using the subway. > but PLEASE PLEASE stay on the right side of the road ! This isn't my first visit to Canada and I lived in Chicago for a while a few years back so I'm mostly acclimatised to your crazy colonial customs like driving on the wrong side of the road and mispronouncing the Queen's English :-) > Until linux is fully mainstream, or until the borg has assimilated every > last one of us (see: hell freezes over !) Ummm, okay I guess I'll be leaving early then as I wasn't planning to stay in Toronto beyond the end of the week :-) > ~90min of highly technichal droning, punctuated by heckling and hissing > whenever "the monopoly" is mentioned, followd by 2.3 hours of beer > drinking and exageration. Now that I can probably cope with... Hope to see you tonight. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 18:04:21 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:04:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Joseph Kubik wrote: > The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time. > A REALLY hot fire is hard to protect against. However, most > residential fires I've seen were only really hot in the small area > where the fire started and the rest of the building was quickly > extinguished. Depends on what you mean by really hot :) I've seen quite a few house fires[1]. Most of them were hot enough that I found myself physically unable to get closer than 15m or so. This is a common occurance that people (including myself) describe as a "wall of heat". It is called a wall because it might as well be solid - it is impassable. Also, houses can be completely engulfed in as little as 5 minutes so the building becomes the hot spot very fast. > If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work > well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it > needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). To me there is simply no substitute for off site backups. It completely works around any concerns relating to damage to the building. [1] I used to be a police officer so got to visit lots of them, usually while they were still burning. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 18:07:50 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:07:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Last minute call for projector Message-ID: Hi all. Does any kind soul have access to a projector suitable for connection to a laptop that they can bring to the meeting tonight? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 18:10:03 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:10:03 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <425BF6E8.3030604-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425AF42C.7070409@rogers.com> <425BF6E8.3030604@ruggedcom.com> Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 12:27 PM, Michael Galea wrote: > Sy wrote: > > Thats what I do. I use a spare drive mounted in one of those removable > IDE trays. Every three weeks or so I power down, insert drive, power > up, image, power down and remove the drive. And what I get is a > complete bootable image. It goes back to work the next day. I want to avoid using a bay, because powering down (twice) is annoying. Right now I'm thinking of an external usb bay. I saw a couple of nice ones here and there.. maybe I should drop by canada computers on my way to the meeting, and pick something up. The *real* solution, of course, would be to have another box somewhere, and to have a gigabit network between the two systems, and to throw backups into that box.. which can be powered off without annoying the main box. I just got a separate firewall going.. so I don't have a spare anymore (there's no way in heck I'm using my firewall as a fileserver.. heh). Maybe I should pick up a $2 486? Hmm.. I do have a 486 laying around which is begging to be built. I do also have an i/o card.. I could pick up some drive bays and go to town on it. * No gigabit though.. but then that's what intelligent synchronization is for. * The external usb bay is probably more travellable than the removable drive bay though.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 18:12:58 2005 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:12:58 -0400 Subject: PCB questions... Message-ID: <425C0FAA.20306@alteeve.com> Does anyone here have experience with the Program 'PCB'? Could use some help/pointers, beyond the limited documentation... Please email me off list. Thanks, Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 18:25:19 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:25:19 -0400 Subject: Last minute call for projector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Apr 12, 2005 2:07 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Does any kind soul have access to a projector suitable for > connection to a laptop that they can bring to the meeting tonight? Crap, yes I have access to one.. but it's not available right now (it got borrowed). Give me a bit of notice for next time and for sure I can look into bringing it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 18:28:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:28:27 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425AF42C.7070409@rogers.com> <425BF6E8.3030604@ruggedcom.com> Message-ID: <20050412182827.GF23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 02:10:03PM -0400, Sy wrote: > On Apr 12, 2005 12:27 PM, Michael Galea wrote: > I want to avoid using a bay, because powering down (twice) is > annoying. Right now I'm thinking of an external usb bay. I saw a > couple of nice ones here and there.. maybe I should drop by canada > computers on my way to the meeting, and pick something up. > > The *real* solution, of course, would be to have another box > somewhere, and to have a gigabit network between the two systems, and > to throw backups into that box.. which can be powered off without > annoying the main box. Yeah, so when are we going to get unlimited gigabit ethernet to our houses? > I just got a separate firewall going.. so I don't have a spare anymore > (there's no way in heck I'm using my firewall as a fileserver.. heh). > Maybe I should pick up a $2 486? Hmm.. I do have a 486 laying around > which is begging to be built. I do also have an i/o card.. I could > pick up some drive bays and go to town on it. Remember most 486's were limited to 512M, 2G or 8G drives. A few have good enough bios's to run up to 137G, but non do LBA48 (drives over 137G need this), although I think Linux can do LBA48 in software if using PIO mode (not DMA) although at that point your transfer rate is about 2MB/s which would make filling a drive that big nuts in the first place. If the sytem takes PCI cards you may be able to run a nice new controller card. Of course aiming for a $100 Pentium 1/2/3 level machine may be much more productive. > * No gigabit though.. but then that's what intelligent synchronization is for. > * The external usb bay is probably more travellable than the removable > drive bay though.. Certainly more compatible with a random PC. If your house burns down, and you can't find that particular drive bay, well then you have to dismantle the drive cage and put the drive in normally to access the backup. I guess that is OK since the restore should be the exceptional case rather than the common case. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 18:33:42 2005 From: tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org (Andy Ransom) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 14:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Zaurus SL-C1000 anybody? Message-ID: Hi does anybody have any experience with the Zaurus SL-C1000? http://conics.net/shp/pda/zaurus-sl-c700/index.html A fellow LUG member back in the UK has a SL-C860, and raves about it, and it looks like the SL-1000 might be a newer version of it, but its a lot of money to part with for a PDA without having played with the machine first. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 19:37:29 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:37:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Last minute call for projector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > On Apr 12, 2005 2:07 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. Does any kind soul have access to a projector suitable for > > connection to a laptop that they can bring to the meeting tonight? > > Crap, yes I have access to one.. but it's not available right now (it > got borrowed). Give me a bit of notice for next time and for sure I > can look into bringing it. Thanks Sy. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 19:57:03 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 15:57:03 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Message-ID: I was defining really hot as "when the metal stove slagged". OR, when the ceramic / glass in the area all broke from the temperature difference inside and outside of the object. Very Hot: Wood burning. Really hot: Steel, Iron, Copper, etc. melting. Extremely hot: Glass melting, Brick and cement cracking. -Joseph- On Apr 12, 2005 2:04 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Joseph Kubik wrote: > > > The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time. > > A REALLY hot fire is hard to protect against. However, most > > residential fires I've seen were only really hot in the small area > > where the fire started and the rest of the building was quickly > > extinguished. > > Depends on what you mean by really hot :) > > I've seen quite a few house fires[1]. Most of them were hot enough that I > found myself physically unable to get closer than 15m or so. This is a > common occurance that people (including myself) describe as a "wall of > heat". It is called a wall because it might as well be solid - it is > impassable. > > Also, houses can be completely engulfed in as little as 5 minutes so the > building becomes the hot spot very fast. > > > If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work > > well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it > > needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). > > To me there is simply no substitute for off site backups. It completely > works around any concerns relating to damage to the building. > > [1] I used to be a police officer so got to visit lots of them, usually > while they were still burning. > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. > Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. > Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net > OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. > Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 20:26:27 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 16:26:27 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20050412202627.GA6353@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 01:44:07PM -0400, daniel wrote: >> > If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work >> > well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it >> > needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). >> >> Why are you making this so hard. Dig a 1 meter deep hole (6 inches >> diameter), put the things to be saved in a stainless or plastic >> hermetically closed can, and put it in the hole. If you have drain >> arrangements for rainwater you already have a hole probably. > >great idea... if you have a back yard. If I recall correctly, the original poster (hi Walter :-) was looking for reliable off-site backup, and he lives on the fifth floor of a condo. The fifth floor is a little low, but if he puts his 3-5Gb on CF or SD cards and embeds them in something like a lawn dart he should be able to get about a metre of penetration, no yard required. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 21:20:36 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:20:36 +0500 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <20050412202627.GA6353-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <20050412202627.GA6353@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Apr 13, 2005 1:26 AM, William O'Higgins wrote: > > If I recall correctly, the original poster (hi Walter :-) was looking > for reliable off-site backup, and he lives on the fifth floor of a condo. > The fifth floor is a little low, but if he puts his 3-5Gb on CF or SD > cards and embeds them in something like a lawn dart he should be able to > get about a metre of penetration, no yard required. Totally going off topic, but I laughed thinking it so I'll risk it: You just made me think up some wacked out network-attached heat-sensor which would do a last-minute backup and then launch that lawn dart by some mechanical means. Of course it would all have to be on a UPS. And aiming that missile is left up to the end user. ;) -- Back sortof on topic.. I almost got in on a project to erect a mid-distance laser network. We were only a few blocks away and figured a couple of towers would do the trick. I liken this to the "string between two tin cans" thing that I wondered about as a kid. Of course, the real world is a bit too imperfect for such a wacked-out network. Setting up a network of repeaters and having a huge wireless LAN setup would have been easier. Of course, a VPN would do the trick. -- Ok, properly back on topic now: I still maintain that a VPN between a couple of consenting adults would solve a lot of problems. If, someday, someone's willing to participate with such a thing, I'm game. As long as everything's encrypted en route, on-site and all that. I'm going to (very) lightly consider such a thing between my home and some random work computer that I'll set up. The big problem there would be bandwidth.. I'm already running pretty thin on the stuff.. but after the one initial backup.. it should be pretty easy to maintain. A backup solution that understood the moving and renaming of files would be especially nice to see. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 21:29:10 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:29:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Last minute call for projector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > On Apr 12, 2005 2:07 PM, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Hi all. Does any kind soul have access to a projector suitable for > > connection to a laptop that they can bring to the meeting tonight? > > Crap, yes I have access to one.. but it's not available right now (it > got borrowed). Give me a bit of notice for next time and for sure I > can look into bringing it. Christopher Browne has kindly offered to bring a portable unit for this evening. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 21:42:07 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 17:42:07 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <20050412202627.GA6353@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050412214207.GA25825@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 02:20:36AM +0500, Sy wrote: > On Apr 13, 2005 1:26 AM, William O'Higgins wrote: > > > > If I recall correctly, the original poster (hi Walter :-) was looking > > for reliable off-site backup, and he lives on the fifth floor of a condo. > > The fifth floor is a little low, but if he puts his 3-5Gb on CF or SD > > cards and embeds them in something like a lawn dart he should be able to > > get about a metre of penetration, no yard required. > > Totally going off topic, but I laughed thinking it so I'll risk it: > > You just made me think up some wacked out network-attached heat-sensor > which would do a last-minute backup and then launch that lawn dart by > some mechanical means. > > Of course it would all have to be on a UPS. > > And aiming that missile is left up to the end user. ;) Please don't - my brother is a fireman and I hate to test whether his insurance covers injuries to to computer bugs. > Ok, properly back on topic now: > > I still maintain that a VPN between a couple of consenting adults > would solve a lot of problems. If, someday, someone's willing to > participate with such a thing, I'm game. As long as everything's > encrypted en route, on-site and all that. I'm going to (very) lightly > consider such a thing between my home and some random work computer > that I'll set up. > > The big problem there would be bandwidth.. I'm already running pretty > thin on the stuff.. but after the one initial backup.. it should be > pretty easy to maintain. A backup solution that understood the moving > and renaming of files would be especially nice to see. If you each make your the initial backup copy onto a separate local disk and then exchange disks, you can speed up that first hit. Subversion comes to mind when you talk about understanding moving and renaming files (and directories). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 21:46:10 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 02:46:10 +0500 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <20050412214207.GA25825-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <20050412202627.GA6353@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20050412214207.GA25825@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On Apr 13, 2005 2:42 AM, John Macdonald wrote: > > Subversion comes to mind when you talk about understanding > moving and renaming files (and directories). Ok, since it's been mentioned a couple of times.. I'll definitely have to check out subversion. I didn't quite think it was appropriate to my needs, but maybe it is afterall. I had done a little bit of reading on it back in the day, and I was duely impressed.. I'll have another peek. I'll check the obvious places of course, but I may as well ask.. Is there any Slackware-specific info anyone could point me towards? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 22:00:52 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 18:00:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speakers wanted July - December 2005 Message-ID: Hi all. June is the last meeting when we have speakers scheduled. Time to offer to speak sometime in July - December. You don't need to be a guru to give a talk. You may know something about a particular topic that even the gurus don't. Talks should be around 60 minutes with an absolute maximum of 90 minutes. Anyone interested in giving a talk is requested to reply to this email filling out the questions below: 1. What is the best email address to contact you with? 2. What is the best phone number to contact you with? 3. What is the topic of your talk? 4. Please provide 4-5 lines on your talk. 5. Please provide up to 5 lines on yourself, including professional experience, and anything else you want to add. 6. How long do you think the talk will be? 7. Do you need a projector for the talk? 8. Please nominate your 1st, 2nd and 3rd preferences for the date of your talk from this list: Jul 12 Aug 9 Sep 13 Oct 11 Nov 8 Dec 13 Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 12 23:30:17 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 19:30:17 -0400 Subject: Speakers wanted July - December 2005 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425C5A09.8030002@sympatico.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: >Hi all. June is the last meeting when we have speakers scheduled. Time >to offer to speak sometime in July - December. You don't need to be a >guru to give a talk. > Oh ! Oh ! pick me ! pick me ! I'd like to give a wee talk about ... tum tada daaa.... linuxcaffe ! The mad endevour I've be taunting TLUG with since forever ! (As you know) it'll be a positive penguin playground and there will be something for everybody ! As a bonus, the thing will be open, by then. :-) so sign me up ! I promise to have my ducks in a row and keep it lively. Oh, and I'll need a projector and a smoke machine and flashpots and doo-wap girls ! .. ok .. just a projector .. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 03:23:52 2005 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:23:52 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub Message-ID: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Hello all I've used rsync to backup my entire system /dev/hda to /dev/sda (The disk on /dev/sda is an IDE disk in a USB enclosure, so it's conveniently removable.) The goal is to make a full functioning, bootable backup. There are a number of partitions, including /boot I mount, then rsync, then umount each /dev/sdaX in turn. How do I now use grub to make that 2nd disk bootable? -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 03:44:28 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:44:28 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub References: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: AFAIK, grub will not boot from usb drives/media. I've tried myself a few times but to no avail, though I am not well versed in bootloaders by any means. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 03:49:07 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2005 23:49:07 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub References: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: Strike that... You've inspired me to give it another try. http://www.simonf.com/usb/ seems like a good place to start. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 04:00:25 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 00:00:25 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub In-Reply-To: <1113362632.7513.14.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <20050413040025.GA2424@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 11:23:52PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > Hello all > > I've used rsync to backup my entire system /dev/hda to /dev/sda > (The disk on /dev/sda is an IDE disk in a USB enclosure, so it's > conveniently removable.) The goal is to make a full functioning, > bootable backup. > > There are a number of partitions, including /boot > I mount, then rsync, then umount each /dev/sdaX in turn. > > How do I now use grub to make that 2nd disk bootable? 1. Make sure your motherboard supports booting from USB device. If it doesn't, ain't nothing gonna happen. 2. You may need to make small MSDOS boot partition, depending on what BIOS expects and does. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 10:50:33 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:50:33 +0300 (IDT) Subject: test (ignore) Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__34513.243698939$1113389258$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> test posting (I got a SPF reject for the tlug - testing this) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 11:15:12 2005 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 07:15:12 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub - clarification In-Reply-To: <20050413040025.GA2424-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050413040025.GA2424@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1113390912.14069.9.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> On Wed, 2005-04-13 at 00:00, William Park wrote: > On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 11:23:52PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > > Hello all > > > > I've used rsync to backup my entire system /dev/hda to /dev/sda > > (The disk on /dev/sda is an IDE disk in a USB enclosure, so it's > > conveniently removable.) The goal is to make a full functioning, > > bootable backup. > > > > There are a number of partitions, including /boot > > I mount, then rsync, then umount each /dev/sdaX in turn. > > > > How do I now use grub to make that 2nd disk bootable? > > 1. Make sure your motherboard supports booting from USB device. If it > doesn't, ain't nothing gonna happen. > > 2. You may need to make small MSDOS boot partition, depending on what > BIOS expects and does. Clarification: If I ever DO have to use the backup (because the "main" IDE goes bad), the IDE disk in the USB enclosure (/dev/sda while in the USB enclosure) will be removed and placed in the main box thus becoming /dev/hda ! So, what I need to do is to insure that it will be bootable as a regular IDE disk when that happens. -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 13:17:24 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 09:17:24 -0400 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! Message-ID: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> Is it just me, or has the ubuntu team gone on an extended bender, since the release of Hoary Hedgehog ? I've had nary an up grade since the release, and I find it hard to believe the worldwide debian development community has taken the week off, too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 12:54:12 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:54:12 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub - clarification In-Reply-To: <1113390912.14069.9.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050413040025.GA2424@node1.opengeometry.net> <1113390912.14069.9.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <20050413125412.GG23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 07:15:12AM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > Clarification: > If I ever DO have to use the backup (because the "main" IDE goes bad), > the IDE disk in the USB enclosure (/dev/sda while in the USB enclosure) > will be removed and placed in the main box thus becoming /dev/hda ! So, > what I need to do is to insure that it will be bootable as a regular IDE > disk when that happens. Well you could do this: Create a /mnt/to/backuproot/boot/grub/device.map containing: (hd0) /dev/sda Then run grub-install --root-directory /mnt/to/backuproot /dev/sda I think that should work. Other possible method: chroot /mnt/to/backuproot create /boot/grub/device.map with above entry change /etc/mtab to have an entry for backup root partition mounted on / ie: /dev/sda1 / ext3 rw 0 0 then run grub-install /dev/sda exit chroot (using exit command) That is fairly similar to how we prepare compact flash cards for use at work. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 12:47:47 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 08:47:47 -0400 Subject: Good meeting Message-ID: Hey thanks for the positive experience on my first meeting. Yes, I managed to get lost on the way and somehow I didn't actually note the room number.. but I found you all. Yes, using intuition lets me pause outside a random room until I hear the word "linux". =) Btw, overall I got an impression of maturity because of how the conversation would skew towards social, philosophical and business concerns. Some of my current topics of interest were also covered: * The different levels of thought, philosophy and values between peoples in a business. It's also particularly interesting to confirm from people in the know that it's not a matter of education which has some people not concerned with some things, it's a matter of core values. e.g. some arguments don't mean anything, because the listener does not value the topics being discussed. * Configuration issues -- from a single workstation scalable up to thousands of desktops / servers / toasters. In particular it was awesome to catch wind of the evolution of tools to handle such abstract ideas. * A brief mention of the configuration scalability also led to issues of reinstallation, updating, pseudo-cloning, and in particular some security issues. "self-healing" is a nice concept, but it's nice to learn that there are projects which also handle the security capabilities of something like that -- i.e. don't just heal it, report on what got healed so I can learn if someone was tiptoeing around. Learning of this on a mass scale will be an interesting thing for later. Sy, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:29:54 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:29:54 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff Message-ID: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> A non-computer-geek friend of mine has finally broken down and bought a computer. He has installed Fedora_2 from the Red Hat Fedore Linux 2 Bible. This is very good. He is looking into getting high speed internet. He has called Sympatico and has been told that they do not support Linux. I am still connecting through the phone to Echo Online (WinTel?). What is the easiest way for a non-computer type to get a Linux box connected to the internet? I know that the phone has become very easy. Who is the recommended service? What modems and drivers seem to work for everyone? I have searched through a couple of websites, but I suspect that this is very simple. Also, someone else asked me about Linux and USB modems. I have directed him to the Linux USB website. http://www.linux-usb.org/, which looks informative. Is there personal experience out there I can pass on? Thanks. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:15:45 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:15:45 +0000 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <425D1BE4.4090902-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200504131415.45601.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 13, 2005 01:17 pm, David J Patrick wrote: > Is it just me, or has the ubuntu team gone on an extended bender, since > the release of Hoary Hedgehog ? > I've had nary an up grade since the release, and I find it hard to > believe the worldwide debian development community has taken the week > off, too. There are some minor updates today. On one of my systems it needed only a 198k Firefox region update. ( It wasn't even a region I am using en-gb) Other than that, it is definitely slower than usual. There could be a distinct possibility that the developers are discussing this issue: http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/11/2335221&tid=163&tid=90&tid=190&tid=106 http://internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3496541 -snip- "Following Friday's release of Ubuntu Linux 5.04, Ian Murdock, founder of the Debian project, told internetnews.com: 'Ubuntu's popularity is a net negative for Debian.' He explained: 'It's diverged so far from Sarge that packages built for Ubuntu often don't work on Sarge. And given the momentum behind Ubuntu, more and more packages are being built like this. The result is a potential compatibility nightmare.'" -snip- -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:17:03 2005 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:17:03 -0400 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <200504131415.45601.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> <200504131415.45601.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <221478233.20050413101703@rogers.com> Wednesday, April 13, 2005, 10:15:45 AM, you wrote: JS> -snip- JS> "Following Friday's release of Ubuntu Linux 5.04, Ian Murdock, founder of the JS> Debian project, told internetnews.com: 'Ubuntu's popularity is a net negative JS> for Debian.' He explained: 'It's diverged so far from Sarge that packages JS> built for Ubuntu often don't work on Sarge. And given the momentum behind JS> Ubuntu, more and more packages are being built like this. The result is a JS> potential compatibility nightmare.'" JS> -snip- That quote has created quite a lot of discussion in Debian/Debian-based-distro circles this week. For example, check out the thread here: http://forum.libranet.com/viewtopic.php?t=7726 Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:22:15 2005 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:22:15 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>; from hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org on Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:29:54AM -0400 References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20050413102215.A28803@ee.ryerson.ca> My experience is that USB modems don't work with Linux. I had to trade mine in to Pathcom, my ISP, to get one that has a 'network' interface - ie, plugs into the RJ-45 jack on the computer. Usually the ISP provides setup information for a Windows machine. Then you can copy the same settings into the Linux control panels. The Suse distro is pretty straightforward. Dunno about current versions of RedHat, but the older versions are a lot more complicated - or so it seemed to me when I looked at it. Peter On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:29:54AM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > A non-computer-geek friend of mine has finally broken down and bought a computer. He has installed Fedora_2 from the Red Hat Fedore Linux 2 Bible. This is very good. > > He is looking into getting high speed internet. He has called Sympatico and has been told that they do not support Linux. I am still connecting through the phone to Echo Online (WinTel?). > > What is the easiest way for a non-computer type to get a Linux box connected to the internet? I know that the phone has become very easy. Who is the recommended service? What modems and drivers seem to work for everyone? > > I have searched through a couple of websites, but I suspect that this is very simple. > > Also, someone else asked me about Linux and USB modems. I have directed him to the Linux USB website. http://www.linux-usb.org/, which looks informative. Is there personal experience out there I can pass on? > > Thanks. > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:24:14 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:24:14 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <425D2B8E.2070902@golden.net> Howard Gibson wrote: > A non-computer-geek friend of mine has finally broken down and bought a computer. He has installed Fedora_2 from the Red Hat Fedore Linux 2 Bible. This is very good. > > He is looking into getting high speed internet. He has called Sympatico and has been told that they do not support Linux. I am still connecting through the phone to Echo Online (WinTel?). > > What is the easiest way for a non-computer type to get a Linux box connected to the internet? I know that the phone has become very easy. Who is the recommended service? What modems and drivers seem to work for everyone? > > I have searched through a couple of websites, but I suspect that this is very simple. > > Also, someone else asked me about Linux and USB modems. I have directed him to the Linux USB website. http://www.linux-usb.org/, which looks informative. Is there personal experience out there I can pass on? > > Thanks. > > > Check http://www.istop.com/retail.html. or Check http://www.canadianisp.com/ 1) I would avoid USB. 2) Buy or rent an Ethernet modem. 3) Buy a router / firewall and connect via you modem using it. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:20:42 2005 From: gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:20:42 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff Message-ID: Howard! Sympatico's been a bit misleading: they don't provide TECH support for Linux, but you can certainly connect to their service from it. There's a FAQ here: http://service.sympatico.ca/index.cfm?method=content.view&content_id=1138&category_id=99 But I warn you: Linux isn't for "non-computer types." Heck, even the Sympatico help desk finds it so tricky that they won't support it. It's an amazing OS, but it was built to be powerful and flexible, not user-friendly.. Definitely NOT trying to scare your friend off; just trying to make him aware. Cheers! Gord Jeoffroy I.T. Manager, Hume Imaging Inc. Phone: 416-921-7204 x225 Cell: 416-902-0920 Fax: 416-921-7386 Web: www.humeimaging.com >>> hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org 04/13/05 10:29am >>> A non-computer-geek friend of mine has finally broken down and bought a computer. He has installed Fedora_2 from the Red Hat Fedore Linux 2 Bible. This is very good. He is looking into getting high speed internet. He has called Sympatico and has been told that they do not support Linux. I am still connecting through the phone to Echo Online (WinTel?). What is the easiest way for a non-computer type to get a Linux box connected to the internet? I know that the phone has become very easy. Who is the recommended service? What modems and drivers seem to work for everyone? I have searched through a couple of websites, but I suspect that this is very simple. Also, someone else asked me about Linux and USB modems. I have directed him to the Linux USB website. http://www.linux-usb.org/, which looks informative. Is there personal experience out there I can pass on? Thanks. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:42:09 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:42:09 +0000 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <221478233.20050413101703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> <200504131415.45601.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <221478233.20050413101703@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200504131442.09383.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 13, 2005 02:17 pm, Matt Cahill wrote: > Wednesday, April 13, 2005, 10:15:45 AM, you wrote: > > JS> -snip- > > JS> "Following Friday's release of Ubuntu Linux 5.04, Ian Murdock, founder > of the JS> Debian project, told internetnews.com: 'Ubuntu's popularity is a > net negative JS> for Debian.' He explained: 'It's diverged so far from > Sarge that packages JS> built for Ubuntu often don't work on Sarge. And > given the momentum behind JS> Ubuntu, more and more packages are being > built like this. The result is a JS> potential compatibility nightmare.'" > > JS> -snip- > > > That quote has created quite a lot of discussion in > Debian/Debian-based-distro circles this week. For example, check out > the thread here: http://forum.libranet.com/viewtopic.php?t=7726 > > Matt One thing I will say here about debian vs ubuntu I have now installed kubuntu on my laptop. Toshiba Satellite 1900 P4 1.6 It is the first linux based distro of any flavour to install on this laptop with EVERYTHING fully functional, right out of the install. ACPI, suspend to RAM, hibernate to disk, CPU power profiles, and wireless is perfect as well. I was able to patch the orinoco drivers for monitor mode, install kismet 2005, and it works perfectly. Attempting the same feat on a pure debian unstable install on this laptop resulted in a HUGE headache to get monitor mode to work. Once it did, kismet kept segfaulting regardless of the card I used. With ubuntu I can use my laptop for what I oringinally intended - mobility. I am currently getting over 4 hours use on a battery charge, where with debian I was only getting 1.5 hours. I know that I could have added the functionality, but why the need to? My 2 cents. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:44:29 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:44:29 -0400 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <200504131442.09383.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> <200504131415.45601.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <221478233.20050413101703@rogers.com> <200504131442.09383.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050413144429.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 02:42:09PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > One thing I will say here about debian vs ubuntu > > I have now installed kubuntu on my laptop. > Toshiba Satellite 1900 P4 1.6 > > It is the first linux based distro of any flavour to install on this laptop > with EVERYTHING fully functional, right out of the install. ACPI, suspend to > RAM, hibernate to disk, CPU power profiles, and wireless is perfect as well. > I was able to patch the orinoco drivers for monitor mode, install kismet > 2005, and it works perfectly. Attempting the same feat on a pure debian > unstable install on this laptop resulted in a HUGE headache to get monitor > mode to work. Once it did, kismet kept segfaulting regardless of the card I > used. Well it is easier to take mostly working stuff and optimize it for one type of machine (x86 PCs) than it is to try and make it work the same on 10+ architectures. Debian does the hard work and insist it be done right, Ubuntu has different goals and do a good job at getting to those goals. > With ubuntu I can use my laptop for what I oringinally intended - mobility. I > am currently getting over 4 hours use on a battery charge, where with debian > I was only getting 1.5 hours. I know that I could have added the > functionality, but why the need to? And if you installed Sarge or Sid would it have set it up automatically too? Well probably not all of it, but perhasp some of it. Hibernation is certainly a feature rather specific to only a few platforms. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:46:10 2005 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:46:10 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <000001c54037$88cb7020$c601a8c0@plex31> i would strongly recommend getting a router so that the pc is not natively connected to the internet... this way, you configure the router and not your pc - simply set your pc to dhcp and let the router handle the details... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Howard Gibson Sent: April 13, 2005 10:30 AM To: Toronto Linux User's Group Subject: [TLUG]: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff A non-computer-geek friend of mine has finally broken down and bought a computer. He has installed Fedora_2 from the Red Hat Fedore Linux 2 Bible. This is very good. He is looking into getting high speed internet. He has called Sympatico and has been told that they do not support Linux. I am still connecting through the phone to Echo Online (WinTel?). What is the easiest way for a non-computer type to get a Linux box connected to the internet? I know that the phone has become very easy. Who is the recommended service? What modems and drivers seem to work for everyone? I have searched through a couple of websites, but I suspect that this is very simple. Also, someone else asked me about Linux and USB modems. I have directed him to the Linux USB website. http://www.linux-usb.org/, which looks informative. Is there personal experience out there I can pass on? Thanks. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howardg-PadmjKOQAFn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:56:07 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:56:07 +0000 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <200504131456.07881.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 13, 2005 02:29 pm, Howard Gibson wrote: > A non-computer-geek friend of mine has finally broken down and bought a > computer. He has installed Fedora_2 from the Red Hat Fedore Linux 2 Bible. > This is very good. > > He is looking into getting high speed internet. He has called Sympatico > and has been told that they do not support Linux. I am still connecting > through the phone to Echo Online (WinTel?). > > What is the easiest way for a non-computer type to get a Linux box > connected to the internet? I know that the phone has become very easy. > Who is the recommended service? What modems and drivers seem to work for > everyone? > > I have searched through a couple of websites, but I suspect that this is > very simple. > > Also, someone else asked me about Linux and USB modems. I have directed > him to the Linux USB website. http://www.linux-usb.org/, which looks > informative. Is there personal experience out there I can pass on? > > Thanks. For those of you who are on Sympatico, the speedstream modems have a firewall in them that will prevent remote administration, personal FTP server etc. But there is a workaround. :) Now, I did not write this. Attempt any of this *** AT YOUR OWN RISK! *** I have used this a few times with success TO ALLOW REMOTE ACCESS TO CLIENTS Pc's. This is for the Speedstream 5200, if you have a differnet model google it, the info is out there. Step 1: you have to make sure your IP is set to 192.168.2.2 Step 2: Go to ?192.168.2.1/pfwizardj.cgi?code=EDIT&id.. and set "All Items" under "Profile Configuration Access" click next and choose "Do not require admin login" Step2: Go to ?192.168.2.1/pfwizardj.cgi?code=EDIT&id.. and do the same thing, except type 192.168.2.2 as your "Constant Profile IP Address". (if everything went ok, you should now see the new configuration page) From here, you have to access every configuration page manually. Here they are: ?192.168.2.1/dhcpcfg.htm - DHCP ?192.168.2.1/ddnscfg.htm - Dynamic DNS ?192.168.2.1/ipp_config.htm - IP Passthru ?192.168.2.1/updatelocal.htm - Update firmware ?192.168.2.1/ras_config.htm - RAS config ?192.168.2.1/naptcfg.htm - Port forwarding ?192.168.2.1/dmzcfg.htm - DMZ Config ?192.168.2.1/fwcfg.html - Firewall Config ?192.168.2.1/natcfg.htm - NAT/NAPT Configuration ?192.168.2.1/hostcfg.html - Host Configuration ?192.168.2.1/upnpcfg.html - UPNP Configuration ?192.168.2.1/ripcfg.html - RIP Configuration ?192.168.2.1/timecfg.htm - Time Server Configuration ?192.168.2.1/fwwizard.htm - Firewall Config Wizard ?192.168.2.1/adscfg.htm - FW Attack Detection System ?192.168.2.1/snoozecfg.htm - Firewall Snooze Control ?192.168.2.1/lansrvscfg.htm - Gateway Server Port Config These work in some models depending on firmware revision ( trial and error ) ?192.168.2.1/pflogin.htm ?192.168.2.1/vcwizardj.cgi?code=HOME ?192.168.2.1/hostcfg.htm ?192.168.2.1/user.htm ?192.168.2.1/statroute.htm ?192.168.2.1/naptcfg.htm ?192.168.2.1/snoozecfg.htm ?192.168.2.1/fwwizardj.cgi?code=HOME ?192.168.2.1/fwlogshow.htm ?192.168.2.1/adscfg.htm ?192.168.2.1/upnpcfg.htm ?192.168.2.1/rfc2684cfg.htm ?192.168.2.1/brgmode.htm ?192.168.2.1/lansrvscfg.htm ?192.168.2.1/summary.htm ?192.168.2.1/syslogshow.htm ?192.168.2.1/atmstatsx.htm ?192.168.2.1/dslstatsx.htm ?192.168.2.1/ethstatsx.htm ?192.168.2.1/usbstatsx.htm ?192.168.2.1/routestatsx.htm ?192.168.2.1/reboot.htm Again - *** USE AT YOUR OWN RISK *** -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:48:54 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:48:54 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050413144854.GI23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:20:42AM -0400, Gord Jeoffroy wrote: > Sympatico's been a bit misleading: they don't provide TECH support for Linux, but you can certainly connect to their service from it. > > There's a FAQ here: http://service.sympatico.ca/index.cfm?method=content.view&content_id=1138&category_id=99 > > But I warn you: Linux isn't for "non-computer types." Heck, even the Sympatico help desk finds it so tricky that they won't support it. It's an amazing OS, but it was built to be powerful and flexible, not user-friendly.. Definitely NOT trying to scare your friend off; just trying to make him aware. It is rather easy to setup pppoe today using an external adsl ethernet modem connected to a supported ethernet card. Any decent ISP will give you the settings you need (username, password and provider name for pppoe, and that's it, well optionally mail server, dns server and such). A hardware dialup modem will cost almost as much as buying an adsl modem if not more, and dialup service isn't much cheaper than 3Mbit ADSL either. Not really worth it if you have the choice to go with something faster. A nice fast ADSL connection (3Mbit/800kbit) should be about $30 in Toronto while cable from rogers costs more (but is just a matter of connect to ethernet port, and enable dhcp and you are done, except email could be a hassle with that smtp auth stuff rogers insist on). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:53:18 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:53:18 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <000001c54037$88cb7020$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <000001c54037$88cb7020$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:46:10AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: > i would strongly recommend getting a router so that the pc is not natively > connected to the internet... I did this for my parents. What a pain. Someone please tell me what brand model router has the ability to run for 3+ months without crashing and requiring a power cycle every week, couple of days, every hour, depending on its mood. So far I am very pissed off at the linksys befsr41 > this way, you configure the router and not your pc - simply set your pc to > dhcp and let the router handle the details... My 486 made a better firewall/router than the standalone boxes I have dealt with so far. At least it doesn't crash. I am very disappointed in the dedicated boxes so far given they have only one stupid little task to do and they should be able to be treated as an appliance: Plug it in, configure it, forget about it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:54:42 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:54:42 -0400 Subject: Good meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050413145442.GA2561@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 08:47:47AM -0400, Sy wrote: > * Configuration issues -- from a single workstation scalable up to > thousands of desktops / servers / toasters. In particular it was > awesome to catch wind of the evolution of tools to handle such > abstract ideas. > > * A brief mention of the configuration scalability also led to issues > of reinstallation, updating, pseudo-cloning, and in particular some > security issues. "self-healing" is a nice concept, but it's nice to > learn that there are projects which also handle the security > capabilities of something like that -- i.e. don't just heal it, report > on what got healed so I can learn if someone was tiptoeing around. > Learning of this on a mass scale will be an interesting thing for > later. You can avoid scalability issue by going "thin-client". Scalability became an issue when we moved away from mainframe. It looks like we're going back, except with Linux this time. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 14:58:37 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:58:37 -0400 Subject: TLUG @ LinuxWorld artwork needed Message-ID: <00af01c54039$457a8ca0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> As I hope everyone on this list knows, TLUG will have a booth (#306) at the LinuxWorld show, and for that we will have some PC running at the show. Now what we need is some artwork for the show in the following formats: - Boot screen 640 x 400, less than 17 colours - in ".bmp" format. - Screen wallpaper - 1024 x 768 in ".jpg" format, almost anything goes, but smaller images are better than big ones. Now, I have created images for the show in the above mentioned formats, but given my artistic ability (near non-existent) there is ... a lot of room for improvement... If anyone would like to take a crack at the above images let me know. Colin McGregor P.S. just a reminder we will have another LinuxWorld planning meeting Wed. April 13 in the coffee shop of the Indigo bookstore at Yonge & Eglinton (2300 Yonge Street) a stones throw away from the Eglinton Subway station. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:13:06 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:13:06 +0000 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <20050413144429.GH23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> <200504131442.09383.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050413144429.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200504131513.06254.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 13, 2005 02:44 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well it is easier to take mostly working stuff and optimize it for one > type of machine (x86 PCs) than it is to try and make it work the same on > 10+ architectures. Debian does the hard work and insist it be done > right, Ubuntu has different goals and do a good job at getting to those > goals. > This is one of the main reasons that Debian is considering dropping all but 4 architectures in the coming months http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/03/14/debian_reduced/ > > With ubuntu I can use my laptop for what I oringinally intended - > > mobility. I am currently getting over 4 hours use on a battery charge, > > where with debian I was only getting 1.5 hours. I know that I could have > > added the functionality, but why the need to? > > And if you installed Sarge or Sid would it have set it up automatically > too? Well probably not all of it, but perhasp some of it. Hibernation > is certainly a feature rather specific to only a few platforms. It might have, but I enjoy packages on my personal pc's that are slightly more recent than 2002. I have used Sid on many occasions, and I have it running on a few systems now. But it is still much more work to get a Sid based system to the same functionality level as Ubuntu, in a mobile environment for example. I enjoy the stability and reliability of Debian in a server environment, but I enjoy the speed at which linux applications are evolving and improving. On my Gentoo desktop I have applications with new features that are amazing improvements, and are perfectly stable. At the current rate of upgrading packages in Debian, these should be available by early 2007 -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:17:05 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:17:05 -0400 Subject: High Speed Modems and Stuff Message-ID: <425D37F1.3070507@rogers.com> > > >I did this for my parents. What a pain. Someone please tell me what >brand model router has the ability to run for 3+ months without crashing >and requiring a power cycle every week, couple of days, every hour, >depending on its mood. So far I am very pissed off at the linksys >befsr41 > With the exception of the blackout in 2003, my DLink (model Dl - 704P) had been running constantly for four years with out a crash, until I replaced it with a Linksys WRT54G (also a solid performer) in January. Both of these models have definitely been of the 'set and forget' variety. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yuly-U0LLASLCtz9dfcUSkOPJIRdDcuvq+h7I at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 16:24:35 2005 From: yuly-U0LLASLCtz9dfcUSkOPJIRdDcuvq+h7I at public.gmane.org (Yuly Taratuta) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:24:35 -0500 Subject: Question Message-ID: <000001c54045$48945950$100a0a0a@Juri> Hi, I am new to your mailing list. I would like to make a linux related job posting. It is for a senior Linux drivers developer with VOIP, could you please assist me in the process. Your help is greatly appreciated. Regards, Yuly Taratuta. National-Executive (416)256 0300 ext:235 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:24:44 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:24:44 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413145318.GJ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <000001c54037$88cb7020$c601a8c0@plex31> <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:53:18AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:46:10AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: >> i would strongly recommend getting a router so that the pc is not natively >> connected to the internet... > >I did this for my parents. What a pain. Someone please tell me what >brand model router has the ability to run for 3+ months without crashing >and requiring a power cycle every week, couple of days, every hour, >depending on its mood. So far I am very pissed off at the linksys >befsr41 The router I've used for two years is a Netgear RP114 - 4-port switch, firewall, content filter. I've never needed to power cycle it in 3 years (except when I moved). I would highly recommend iStop ($32.05/month - fixed IP, 300MB down, 800kB up, support and encourage Linux users), an ethernet modem and a hardware firewall/router. A secondary machine for a firewall has many advantages, flexibility being foremost, but a hardware router is solid state (silent) and runs at 12v DC, so a lot less power than a whole computer. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:26:38 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:26:38 -0400 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <200504131513.06254.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> <200504131442.09383.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050413144429.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504131513.06254.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050413152638.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:13:06PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > This is one of the main reasons that Debian is considering dropping all but 4 > architectures in the coming months > > http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2005/03/14/debian_reduced/ The plan is that future releases _after_ sarge will only contain a subset of the debian supported architectures with the rest becoming second class citizens of debian, but still supported and used by some people. Code working on those architectures won't be a requirement for packages to get released though which could very much help the release speed and progress which has been slowed by mipsel and arm and a few others in the past with slow build systems and odd settings for some things. > It might have, but I enjoy packages on my personal pc's that are slightly more > recent than 2002. I have used Sid on many occasions, and I have it running on > a few systems now. But it is still much more work to get a Sid based system > to the same functionality level as Ubuntu, in a mobile environment for > example. I don't think Debian stable is aimed at desktops. It is aimed at a very reliable stable base for a server or other critical system. I run testing on desktops most of the time, and sometimes even unstable (like my home machine) since I like trying to actually find the problems and report them (I have made many entries in the debian BTS). > I enjoy the stability and reliability of Debian in a server environment, but I > enjoy the speed at which linux applications are evolving and improving. On my > Gentoo desktop I have applications with new features that are amazing > improvements, and are perfectly stable. At the current rate of upgrading > packages in Debian, these should be available by early 2007 Well I find debian testing/unstable to be great desktop releases with about the same stability as many other distributions get in their actual releases, except with much faster response to fixing any bugs found than they would have. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:26:08 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:26:08 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <425D3A10.0@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > But I warn you: Linux isn't for "non-computer types." Heck, even the > Sympatico help desk finds it so tricky that they won't support it. > It's an amazing OS, but it was built to be powerful and flexible, > not user-friendly.. Definitely NOT trying to scare your friend off; > just trying to make him aware. Windows isn't for "non-computer types" either. However, there are a couple of versions of it which are popular enough that Sympatico's help desk has scripts to help people through configuration. Other posts advise getting an ethernet connected modem and a router appliance. This is good advice and should definately be followed, especially for people who are "non-computer types". ASUS makes a nice one that does all the usual NAT/WAP stuff and throws in a USB print server as well. Drew -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCXToQgfzn5SevSpoRAhHAAJ97urgwkeH6m2A3Bk3kH2JpeuGtpQCaAyJc IK+kXS3ax3ynTHWYM473Lfw= =EAFM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:33:50 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:33:50 -0400 Subject: High Speed Modems and Stuff In-Reply-To: <425D37F1.3070507-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <425D37F1.3070507@rogers.com> Message-ID: <425D3BDE.7010602@golden.net> John McGregor wrote: >> >> >> I did this for my parents. What a pain. Someone please tell me what >> brand model router has the ability to run for 3+ months without crashing >> and requiring a power cycle every week, couple of days, every hour, >> depending on its mood. So far I am very pissed off at the linksys >> befsr41 >> > With the exception of the blackout in 2003, my DLink (model Dl - 704P) > had been running > constantly for four years with out a crash, until I replaced it with a > Linksys WRT54G (also > a solid performer) in January. Both of these models have definitely > been of the 'set and > forget' variety. > > John > -- I have a lynksys befsr41 coupled with a Gnet BB0060A DSL modem and have never had a problem. The first one we had was a D-Link I can't remember the model however it turned out to be a lemon. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:40:37 2005 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:40:37 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413145318.GJ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <000301c5403f$2411a2a0$c601a8c0@plex31> very strange - i have never experienced anything like this... i've used linksys, smc and even the low-end dlinks without issues. old firmware maybe??? -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: April 13, 2005 10:53 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:46:10AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: > i would strongly recommend getting a router so that the pc is not > natively connected to the internet... I did this for my parents. What a pain. Someone please tell me what brand model router has the ability to run for 3+ months without crashing and requiring a power cycle every week, couple of days, every hour, depending on its mood. So far I am very pissed off at the linksys befsr41 > this way, you configure the router and not your pc - simply set your > pc to dhcp and let the router handle the details... My 486 made a better firewall/router than the standalone boxes I have dealt with so far. At least it doesn't crash. I am very disappointed in the dedicated boxes so far given they have only one stupid little task to do and they should be able to be treated as an appliance: Plug it in, configure it, forget about it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:40:07 2005 From: cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:40:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413145318.GJ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <000001c54037$88cb7020$c601a8c0@plex31> <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:46:10AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: >> i would strongly recommend getting a router so that the pc is not natively >> connected to the internet... > > I did this for my parents. What a pain. Someone please tell me what > brand model router has the ability to run for 3+ months without crashing > and requiring a power cycle every week, couple of days, every hour, > depending on its mood. So far I am very pissed off at the linksys > befsr41 I've been using a Netgear RP114 for ~4 years; it has been rebooted no more than half a dozen times. >> this way, you configure the router and not your pc - simply set your pc to >> dhcp and let the router handle the details... > > My 486 made a better firewall/router than the standalone boxes I have > dealt with so far. At least it doesn't crash. > > I am very disappointed in the dedicated boxes so far given they have > only one stupid little task to do and they should be able to be treated > as an appliance: Plug it in, configure it, forget about it. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:44:00 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:44:00 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413102215.A28803-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <20050413102215.A28803@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <425D3E40.6030801@sympatico.ca> Peter Hiscocks wrote: > My experience is that USB modems don't work with Linux. Depends on the distro and hardware. My brother got a USB modem (barnd unknown; whatever UK's BT use) to work out of the box with Mandrake 10. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 15:51:48 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:51:48 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <000301c5403f$2411a2a0$c601a8c0@plex31> References: <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000301c5403f$2411a2a0$c601a8c0@plex31> Message-ID: <20050413155148.GL23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 11:40:37AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: > very strange - i have never experienced anything like this... i've used > linksys, smc and even the low-end dlinks without issues. old firmware > maybe??? Updated many times, never made a difference. I get occational crashes on my USR8054 WAP too, although nowhere near as often as my parents. I keep wondering if they are sensitive to bad power (in which case I should plug them into a UPS I guess). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 16:16:28 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:16:28 -0400 Subject: High Speed Modems and Stuff Message-ID: <1113408988.5682.25.camel@localhost> I would advise against getting Sympatico's service. They are in the process of rolling out a new email service that uses Microsoft servers rather than the QMail based ones that they had been using. It really is an abomination -- it uses a TLS variant to authenticate mail in both directions, which of course is not totally compliant with the version in Thunderbird. If a Windows user is employing Norton, McAfee, AVG, PC Cillin or Panda he / she has to turn off email scanning because all these products use SSL, which is incompatible.The only antivirus solution that is fully functional is the one that Sympatico sells and the only email client that works seamlessly is Outlook Express. It also requires the installation of Microsoft's .net client which isn't available for Linux. I spent three days and many hours on the phone with Sympatico support trying to get this working for a client -- the bottom line is that he is now running Mandrake 10.1 and has a Rogers account instead. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 16:27:17 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:27:17 -0400 Subject: High Speed Modems and Stuff In-Reply-To: <1113408988.5682.25.camel@localhost> References: <1113408988.5682.25.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <425D4865.6040102@sympatico.ca> John McGregor wrote: > I would advise against getting Sympatico's service. ... > it uses a TLS variant to authenticate mail in both > directions, which of course is not totally compliant with the version in > Thunderbird. Sympatico's e-mail service works just fine for me, and I'm using Thunderbird. While they're not the greatest ISP in the world, There Is No Conspiracy. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 16:32:00 2005 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413152444.GA10494-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > ...A secondary machine for a firewall has many > advantages, flexibility being foremost, but a hardware router is solid > state (silent) and runs at 12v DC, so a lot less power than a whole > computer. Note that there are "whole computers" with the same properties, albeit not ones you'll find for $49.95 on College St. :-) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 16:50:10 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:50:10 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: I've got Sympatico as well. I'm running IPCop on a secondary box. Setting it up was very easy (once I figured it out - I had a case of stupid user syndrome). So my linux setup just grabs its IP automatically and away I go. I had no settings or software to worry about from the desktop-side.. which helped me out a lot, and will continue to be helpful as I move to test a few other distributions. Sy, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 16:55:20 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:55:20 -0400 Subject: High Speed Modems and Stuff In-Reply-To: <425D4865.6040102-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1113408988.5682.25.camel@localhost> <425D4865.6040102@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1113411320.8512.6.camel@localhost> On Wed, 2005-04-13 at 12:27 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Sympatico's e-mail service works just fine for me, and I'm using > Thunderbird. While they're not the greatest ISP in the world, There Is > No Conspiracy. > You probably still use either pop1.sympatico.ca / pop6.sympatico.ca and smtp1/ smtp6. All new subscribers (and eventually all subscribers) are assigned to their pophm and smtphm servers (the hm stands for Hot Mail). John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 16:58:03 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 12:58:03 -0400 Subject: Question In-Reply-To: <000001c54045$48945950$100a0a0a@Juri> References: <000001c54045$48945950$100a0a0a@Juri> Message-ID: <425D4F9B.8050409@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Assuming it's either located in Toronto / area, or a telecommuting position, please post the either the job description in plain text or a link to same. You will get better responses if you're very clear about requirements and avoid HR/Marketing speak. You should minimally include a link to your company's website. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A Yuly Taratuta wrote: > > > Hi, > > I am new to your mailing list. I would like to make a linux related job > posting. It is for a senior Linux drivers developer with VOIP, could you > please assist me in the process. > > Your help is greatly appreciated. > > > > Regards, > > Yuly Taratuta. > > > > National-Executive > > (416)256 0300 ext:235 > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCXU+agfzn5SevSpoRAiIvAJ47V94x2u6nBvnhnfWxf/DJOjBKuQCeMVHo 3awk2IchDUwB9lkovz3d3X4= =gn9I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 17:20:37 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:20:37 -0400 Subject: Speakers wanted July - December 2005 In-Reply-To: <425C5A09.8030002-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 07:30:17PM -0400 References: <425C5A09.8030002@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050413132037.A19245@leftmind.net> David J Patrick wrote: > Oh, and I'll need a projector > and a smoke machine and flashpots and doo-wap girls ! I'm quite certain that arrangements can be made to have a few female TLUG members wapping you over the head with blunt objects as you're speaking. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 17:24:56 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:24:56 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413155148.GL23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000301c5403f$2411a2a0$c601a8c0@plex31> <20050413155148.GL23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050413172456.GB10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 11:51:48AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 11:40:37AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: >> very strange - i have never experienced anything like this... i've used >> linksys, smc and even the low-end dlinks without issues. old firmware >> maybe??? > >Updated many times, never made a difference. I get occasional crashes >on my USR8054 WAP too, although nowhere near as often as my parents. I >keep wondering if they are sensitive to bad power (in which case I >should plug them into a UPS I guess). I have found that mine doesn't seem to care about power fluctuations, as I have used it in places with terrible power consistency and it just keep working - the up-time counter wraps at a thousand hours I have discovered :-) Given your skill and patience (you keep helping me out, for example) you must have a bad/flaky device. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 17:25:02 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:25:02 -0400 Subject: E1000.o network driver Message-ID: Does anyone know of a link to information on the E1000.o driver's "homepage" I'm seeing some strange network problems and would like to know what the errors really mean. What I need is the meaning of the following, and preferably a list of "this option means X" UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:0 Metric:1 RX packets:390553640 errors:679 dropped:457 overruns:0 frame:146 TX packets:533474124 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:177959639 (169.7 Mb) TX bytes:1331171627 (1269.5 Mb) Any help will be greatly appreciated. -Joseph- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 17:31:10 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:31:10 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On 4/13/05, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > > ...A secondary machine for a firewall has many > > advantages, flexibility being foremost, but a hardware router is solid > > state (silent) and runs at 12v DC, so a lot less power than a whole > > computer. > > Note that there are "whole computers" with the same properties, albeit > not ones you'll find for $49.95 on College St. :-) Indeed. I have a netwinder which is doing server duty at my place. I'm not using it as a firewall, but I sure could (it has dual ethernte). Of course, if Debian drops too much support for ARM, I might be screwed... On the note of crashing routerboxen, my SMC Barricade somethingorother has been rock solid so long as I keep Windows away from the wireless. As soon as I connect a WindowsXP machine via the wireless, the router goes on the fritz and dies a horrible death. Since I removed windows from my work laptop over a year ago, it's been almost pleasant to work with. And yes, it's still a problem; my girlfriend was over the other day with her Win(XP/2k?) work laptop, and it sure did kill the router. We got her a Linksys WRT54G the other day. We haven't yet managed to get that one to work with Windows either (though my PowerBook worked so smoothly I wasn't sure what happened). Note to the original poster: you can get a router without wireless, too. But if you see a WRT54G on sale for cheaper, you could get that; it runs Linux! -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 17:43:15 2005 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:43:15 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: ; from henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org on Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 01:43:03PM -0400 References: <1113325326.6535.4.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20050413134315.B19245@leftmind.net> Henry Spencer wrote: > At least the older ones are entirely ceramic... but "ceramic" is like > "metal", it's a very generic term for a wide class of materials. There > are metals that will melt in the palm of your hand. There are others that > will stay solid at blinding white heat. Same story for ceramics: the > fact that you can build kilns with *some* ceramics says nothing about the > heat resistance of ceramic toilet tanks. Many TLUG members may be unaware of Henry's other interests, but if anyone here could find a re-entry-qualified toilet tank, he'd be the one. (Caveats include the plastic flapper-valve and its seal. And the traditional path of wisdom has always been OFFSITE backups.) (Any chance you could do a talk on computing aspects of space projects you've been involved with? I don't think it'd have to necessarily be Linux-related to still be of great interest to TLUG members.) -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 17:46:25 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:46:25 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413155148.GL23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000301c5403f$2411a2a0$c601a8c0@plex31> <20050413155148.GL23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050413174624.GA30199@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 11:51:48AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 11:40:37AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: > > very strange - i have never experienced anything like this... i've used > > linksys, smc and even the low-end dlinks without issues. old firmware > > maybe??? > > Updated many times, never made a difference. I get occational crashes > on my USR8054 WAP too, although nowhere near as often as my parents. I > keep wondering if they are sensitive to bad power (in which case I > should plug them into a UPS I guess). That may well be the problem - I have to power cycle my ADSL modem a few times per month and it is on a busy circuit - the computers will notice a power dip and restart every month and a half or so, perhaps the modem is failing on tan-outs while the computers only restart on full-blown brown-outs. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 17:54:39 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:54:39 -0400 Subject: Speakers wanted July - December 2005 In-Reply-To: <20050413132037.A19245-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425C5A09.8030002@sympatico.ca> <20050413132037.A19245@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <20050413175439.GB30199@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 01:20:37PM -0400, Anthony de Boer wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > Oh, and I'll need a projector > > and a smoke machine and flashpots and doo-wap girls ! > > I'm quite certain that arrangements can be made to have a few female TLUG > members wapping you over the head with blunt objects as you're speaking. Provide those dough-wap girls with bags of bagels. (That remonds me of the foam boo bricks they used to provide to the audience at theatresports.) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 18:07:18 2005 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 21:07:18 +0300 Subject: E1000.o network driver In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joseph, It means that some packets are being dropped and some have have errors. This can be a result of bad network connection, hub problem, etc. One thing to note though is the Maximum Transfer Unit (MTU) is set to 0. Try to set it to 1500 which is the most common MTU for ethernet networks. Refer to the man page of ifconfig for full description of the ifconfig command. cheers, EK ----Original Message Follows---- From: Joseph Kubik <josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: E1000.o network driver Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 13:25:02 -0400 Does anyone know of a link to information on the E1000.o driver's "homepage" I'm seeing some strange network problems and would like to know what the errors really mean. What I need is the meaning of the following, and preferably a list of "this option means X" UP BROADCAST MULTICAST MTU:0 Metric:1 RX packets:390553640 errors:679 dropped:457 overruns:0 frame:146 TX packets:533474124 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0 collisions:0 txqueuelen:0 RX bytes:177959639 (169.7 Mb) TX bytes:1331171627 (1269.5 Mb) Any help will be greatly appreciated. -Joseph- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 18:10:30 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:10:30 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413172456.GB10494-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000301c5403f$2411a2a0$c601a8c0@plex31> <20050413155148.GL23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050413172456.GB10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050413181030.GM23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 01:24:56PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I have found that mine doesn't seem to care about power fluctuations, as > I have used it in places with terrible power consistency and it just > keep working - the up-time counter wraps at a thousand hours I have > discovered :-) > > Given your skill and patience (you keep helping me out, for example) you > must have a bad/flaky device. Well I must have bad luck with internet appliances given I have bought two and have two crappy ones so far. :) At least my WAP is only needed as a WAP and not as a router (I have a linux machine to do that) and I will probably move my parents back to the 486 again since it was WAY more reliable for me even though it is 13 years old. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 18:12:00 2005 From: dave.stubbs-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:12:00 -0400 Subject: TLUG Uniform In-Reply-To: <000d01c53d4f$8cad3740$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c53c8e$9be18d40$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050408233054.GA27606@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050409163311.GA1980@node1.opengeometry.net> <42581669.1030908@rogers.com> <20050409180748.GA2716@node1.opengeometry.net> <000d01c53d4f$8cad3740$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <425D60F0.8090407@utoronto.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >"William Park" on Saturday, April 09, 2005 2:07 PM >wrote: > > > >>On Sat, Apr 09, 2005 at 01:52:41PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >> >>>William Park wrote: >>> >>> >>>>Do any of us know any pornstars willing to appear at our booth? >>>> >>>> >>>That's what we need.... Booth Bunnies! ;-) >>> >>> >>We should pass around a collection at the next TLUG meeting, so that we >>could pay for some sex appeal. >> >>Colin, what do you think? >> >> > >During the 1960s a study was done where pictures of attractive young women >draped across the hoods of various cars were presented to various guys. The >pictures were taken away and the guys were asked to describe the women, >which they did well at. The guys were then asked to name the make and model >of the cars that were in the pictures, a task which the guys bombed out on. >Point being we are attempting to push T.L.U.G. first, our (intellectual) >talents second and we do NOT want to get "off message". > >So, sorry, but NO pornstars!!! > >Colin McGregor > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > Was anyone at the Comdex a few years ago where they had models on a runway carrying hard drives? It was surreal. Suddenly the entire show floor was empty and everyone was crowded around the runway. A good time was had by all Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 18:12:24 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:12:24 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413174624.GA30199-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000301c5403f$2411a2a0$c601a8c0@plex31> <20050413155148.GL23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050413174624.GA30199@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050413181224.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 01:46:25PM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > That may well be the problem - I have to power cycle my ADSL > modem a few times per month and it is on a busy circuit - > the computers will notice a power dip and restart every month > and a half or so, perhaps the modem is failing on tan-outs > while the computers only restart on full-blown brown-outs. The funny thing is I never have to reset the modem, only the router. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 18:45:13 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:45:13 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: I had rogers high speed cable using the rogers provided motarola cable modem. The setup went like this: cable guy showed up and setup the modem. I plugged my laptop running suse linux into the modem via ethernet. I rebooted. I opened firefox and used the internet. 1 month later: I had TERRIBLE problems with the modem losing signal strength. After 10+days of troubleshooting dealing with cable techs.... The neighbor had spliced my cable with a rat shack splitter and the sigle was too weak. All told, Rogers was easy to use, but not reliable enough for me. -Joseph- On 4/13/05, Taavi Burns wrote: > On 4/13/05, Henry Spencer wrote: > > On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > > > ...A secondary machine for a firewall has many > > > advantages, flexibility being foremost, but a hardware router is solid > > > state (silent) and runs at 12v DC, so a lot less power than a whole > > > computer. > > > > Note that there are "whole computers" with the same properties, albeit > > not ones you'll find for $49.95 on College St. :-) > > Indeed. I have a netwinder which is doing server duty at my place. > I'm not using it as a firewall, but I sure could (it has dual > ethernte). Of course, if Debian drops too much support for ARM, I > might be screwed... > > On the note of crashing routerboxen, my SMC Barricade somethingorother > has been rock solid so long as I keep Windows away from the wireless. > As soon as I connect a WindowsXP machine via the wireless, the router > goes on the fritz and dies a horrible death. Since I removed windows > from my work laptop over a year ago, it's been almost pleasant to work > with. And yes, it's still a problem; my girlfriend was over the other > day with her Win(XP/2k?) work laptop, and it sure did kill the router. > We got her a Linksys WRT54G the other day. We haven't yet managed to > get that one to work with Windows either (though my PowerBook worked > so smoothly I wasn't sure what happened). > > Note to the original poster: you can get a router without wireless, > too. But if you see a WRT54G on sale for cheaper, you could get that; > it runs Linux! > > -- > taa > /*eof*/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 18:55:11 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 11:55:11 -0700 Subject: Speakers wanted July - December 2005 In-Reply-To: <20050413132037.A19245-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425C5A09.8030002@sympatico.ca> <20050413132037.A19245@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <20050413185511.GB7009@unleashed.org> Anthony de Boer (adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org) [050413 10:20]: > David J Patrick wrote: > > Oh, and I'll need a projector > > and a smoke machine and flashpots and doo-wap girls ! > > I'm quite certain that arrangements can be made to have a few female TLUG > members wapping you over the head with blunt objects as you're speaking. I'll volunteer! -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:00:16 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:00:16 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050413190016.GO23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 02:45:13PM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > I had rogers high speed cable using the rogers provided motarola cable modem. > The setup went like this: cable guy showed up and setup the modem. > I plugged my laptop running suse linux into the modem via ethernet. > I rebooted. > I opened firefox and used the internet. > > 1 month later: > I had TERRIBLE problems with the modem losing signal strength. After > 10+days of troubleshooting dealing with cable techs.... > The neighbor had spliced my cable with a rat shack splitter and the > sigle was too weak. Sure you cut the signal by 50% that happens. That's quite a drop. My digital cable box wouldn't receive a bunch of channels when I split the cable between it and the VCR (so I could tape shows). After removing the 4way splitter rogers had installed in the basement to get 4 outlets working, it worked fine. It also worked fine without the 2way splitter. It seems most of the digital stuff on rogers works with with a drop of up to about 75% in strength from the incoming signal strength, but no more. Of course the splitter also has to cover a large enough frequency for it to pass through the digital signal (and be bidirectional too for transmit to work). Sometimes a signal amplifier is needed (which I plan to add at home). So if your neightbour steals half your signal strength, you have a problem with your neighbour, not rogers. > All told, Rogers was easy to use, but not reliable enough for me. Well I won't say anything about rogers being reliable. I am unfortunately stuck with no choice at my new house because bell won't buy equipment to make room for more DSLAM line cards. :( So no more istop.com for me. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:32:15 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:32:15 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: <20050412182827.GF23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425AF42C.7070409@rogers.com> <425BF6E8.3030604@ruggedcom.com> <20050412182827.GF23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Lennart mentioned istop.com in another thread.. and so I looked at it.. and I wondered. Well, the first thing I saw was "Headache surcharge for servers running Windows - $10/mth extra". Buuut.. It's perfectly reasonable to hire someone's box somewhere for just this purpose. In fact, looking at their rates it seems quite natural. 5GBs a month sounds just fine for a good amount of backups. The only worry is backing up that initial chunk of data. These guys seem cool enough that you could probably arrange to ship a drive and ask them to dump the contents into the box somewhere. This is really just an extension of having a spare box at work which you can push your offisite backups to. On 4/12/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Apr 12, 2005 at 02:10:03PM -0400, Sy wrote: > > On Apr 12, 2005 12:27 PM, Michael Galea wrote: > > I want to avoid using a bay, because powering down (twice) is > > annoying. Right now I'm thinking of an external usb bay. I saw a > > couple of nice ones here and there.. maybe I should drop by canada > > computers on my way to the meeting, and pick something up. > > > > The *real* solution, of course, would be to have another box > > somewhere, and to have a gigabit network between the two systems, and > > to throw backups into that box.. which can be powered off without > > annoying the main box. > > Yeah, so when are we going to get unlimited gigabit ethernet to our > houses? > > > I just got a separate firewall going.. so I don't have a spare anymore > > (there's no way in heck I'm using my firewall as a fileserver.. heh). > > Maybe I should pick up a $2 486? Hmm.. I do have a 486 laying around > > which is begging to be built. I do also have an i/o card.. I could > > pick up some drive bays and go to town on it. > > Remember most 486's were limited to 512M, 2G or 8G drives. A few have > good enough bios's to run up to 137G, but non do LBA48 (drives over 137G > need this), although I think Linux can do LBA48 in software if using PIO > mode (not DMA) although at that point your transfer rate is about 2MB/s > which would make filling a drive that big nuts in the first place. If > the sytem takes PCI cards you may be able to run a nice new controller > card. Of course aiming for a $100 Pentium 1/2/3 level machine may be > much more productive. > > > * No gigabit though.. but then that's what intelligent synchronization is for. > > * The external usb bay is probably more travellable than the removable > > drive bay though.. > > Certainly more compatible with a random PC. If your house burns down, > and you can't find that particular drive bay, well then you have to > dismantle the drive cage and put the drive in normally to access the > backup. I guess that is OK since the restore should be the exceptional > case rather than the common case. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:33:21 2005 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:33:21 -0400 Subject: web proxy (I think)? Message-ID: <20050413193321.GA7805@utoronto.ca> hi there, here's my situation: I have a classroom of 15 pc's networked together via a 24-port ethernet hub (well, haven't done the networking yet, but it looks to be easy). No internet in the classroom. I want to teach students how to use the internet with their brand new machines; also I want to upgrade their systems from Ubuntu warty to Ubuntu hoary, using a mirrored repository I've got on a spare IDE hard drive, which still has lots of space on it. here's my thought: copy a big chunk of internet to my hd, alongside the ubuntu mirror. Then install the hd as hdb on a computer that will be used as a router for the network (note: is it hard to set up a router?). Then use some kind of system to redirect calls to internet sites to the files that have been stored on this hd. is this called web proxying? Or caching or redirecting or something? anyway, that's what I want to do. Also I would like to fool the local machines into thinking that my ubuntu repository is in fact the one that's pointed to in their apt-get ocnfiguration files. THe idea is to change almost nothing on the client machines, and do all the work on the router. So I guess I would need: *DNS -- any suggestions for something light? *DHCP -- that should be easy I reckon. Would be nice if folks could talk to each other's machines using the locally-defined client names. *Webcrawling Proxy thaingamajig. I've seen the name "Squid" tossed around. Is that the right tool for the job? so, any ideas or solutions? thanks a bunch, matt ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot: zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:42:27 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:42:27 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups for the rest of us? In-Reply-To: References: <20050411192145.GA31783@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425AF42C.7070409@rogers.com> <425BF6E8.3030604@ruggedcom.com> <20050412182827.GF23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050413194226.GP23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:32:15PM -0400, Sy wrote: > Lennart mentioned istop.com in another thread.. and so I looked at > it.. and I wondered. > > Well, the first thing I saw was "Headache surcharge for servers > running Windows - $10/mth extra". That is for colocation. Remember how much trouble MSSQL and other MS produc'ts worms cause to the network admin when they have to start blocking ports to stop the network from being flooded to death. I won't blame them for charging people more for running more troublesome software (more troublesome for the network that is). For home machines they don't care, although they do actively discourage running a server on windows unless you are an expert at securing windows. > Buuut.. > > It's perfectly reasonable to hire someone's box somewhere for just > this purpose. In fact, looking at their rates it seems quite natural. > 5GBs a month sounds just fine for a good amount of backups. The only > worry is backing up that initial chunk of data. These guys seem cool > enough that you could probably arrange to ship a drive and ask them to > dump the contents into the box somewhere. > > This is really just an extension of having a spare box at work which > you can push your offisite backups to. Could be seen that way I guess. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:43:30 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:43:30 +0300 (IDT) Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413145318.GJ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <000001c54037$88cb7020$c601a8c0@plex31> <20050413145318.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__7036.01575592092$1113421278$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:46:10AM -0400, Jon Thiele wrote: >> i would strongly recommend getting a router so that the pc is not natively >> connected to the internet... > > I did this for my parents. What a pain. Someone please tell me what > brand model router has the ability to run for 3+ months without crashing > and requiring a power cycle every week, couple of days, every hour, > depending on its mood. So far I am very pissed off at the linksys > befsr41 try eci (is linux 2.4.17 based (mips cpu)) >> this way, you configure the router and not your pc - simply set your pc to >> dhcp and let the router handle the details... > > My 486 made a better firewall/router than the standalone boxes I have > dealt with so far. At least it doesn't crash. > > I am very disappointed in the dedicated boxes so far given they have > only one stupid little task to do and they should be able to be treated > as an appliance: Plug it in, configure it, forget about it. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:46:34 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:46:34 -0400 Subject: web proxy (I think)? In-Reply-To: <20050413193321.GA7805-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413193321.GA7805@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050413194634.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:33:21PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > hi there, > > here's my situation: > > I have a classroom of 15 pc's networked together via a 24-port > ethernet hub (well, haven't done the networking yet, but it looks to > be easy). No internet in the classroom. > > I want to teach students how to use the internet with their brand new > machines; also I want to upgrade their systems from Ubuntu warty to > Ubuntu hoary, using a mirrored repository I've got on a spare IDE hard > drive, which still has lots of space on it. > > here's my thought: > > copy a big chunk of internet to my hd, alongside the ubuntu mirror. > Then install the hd as hdb on a computer that will be used as a router for > the network (note: is it hard to set up a router?). Then use some > kind of system to redirect calls to internet sites to the files that > have been stored on this hd. > > is this called web proxying? Or caching or redirecting or something? > anyway, that's what I want to do. Also I would like to fool the local > machines into thinking that my ubuntu repository is in fact the one > that's pointed to in their apt-get ocnfiguration files. No not really, I think it's called copying the contents of a stie to a local web server and making it respond to the request for the original hostname. You can use the virtual hosts in apache to serve each of the hostnames you are mirroring data from. wget is handy for making copies of some sections of a web server. > THe idea is to change almost nothing on the client machines, and do > all the work on the router. So I guess I would need: > > *DNS -- any suggestions for something light? Use bind9. It works. Everyone knows how it works. It is simple to use. > *DHCP -- that should be easy I reckon. Would be nice if folks could > talk to each other's machines using the locally-defined client > names. The names would be a problem for DNS. DHCP should just point them at the right nameserver IP. > *Webcrawling Proxy thaingamajig. I've seen the name "Squid" tossed > around. Is that the right tool for the job? I think the righ solution is apache with a copy of what you want to serve, and then updating the clients to use the new machine's ip as their package source either though faking the entry on the DNS to the local server's ip, or updating the clients to use the local name of the server. > so, any ideas or solutions? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:50:02 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:50:02 -0400 Subject: web proxy (I think)? In-Reply-To: <20050413193321.GA7805-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413193321.GA7805@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050413195002.GA3850@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:33:21PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > hi there, > > here's my situation: > > I have a classroom of 15 pc's networked together via a 24-port > ethernet hub (well, haven't done the networking yet, but it looks to > be easy). No internet in the classroom. > > I want to teach students how to use the internet with their brand new > machines; also I want to upgrade their systems from Ubuntu warty to > Ubuntu hoary, using a mirrored repository I've got on a spare IDE hard > drive, which still has lots of space on it. > > here's my thought: > > copy a big chunk of internet to my hd, alongside the ubuntu mirror. > Then install the hd as hdb on a computer that will be used as a router for > the network (note: is it hard to set up a router?). Then use some > kind of system to redirect calls to internet sites to the files that > have been stored on this hd. > > is this called web proxying? Or caching or redirecting or something? > anyway, that's what I want to do. Also I would like to fool the local > machines into thinking that my ubuntu repository is in fact the one > that's pointed to in their apt-get ocnfiguration files. > > THe idea is to change almost nothing on the client machines, and do > all the work on the router. So I guess I would need: > > *DNS -- any suggestions for something light? > *DHCP -- that should be easy I reckon. Would be nice if folks could > talk to each other's machines using the locally-defined client > names. > *Webcrawling Proxy thaingamajig. I've seen the name "Squid" tossed > around. Is that the right tool for the job? > > so, any ideas or solutions? If I read it right, it's just matter of configuring your local webserver to respond to some other domain. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 19:53:03 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 15:53:03 -0400 Subject: web proxy (I think)? In-Reply-To: <20050413194634.GQ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413193321.GA7805@utoronto.ca> <20050413194634.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <425D789F.9060902@istop.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:33:21PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > >>is this called web proxying? Or caching or redirecting or something? >>anyway, that's what I want to do. Also I would like to fool the local >>machines into thinking that my ubuntu repository is in fact the one >>that's pointed to in their apt-get ocnfiguration files. > > > No not really, I think it's called copying the contents of a stie to a > local web server and making it respond to the request for the original > hostname. Apache can be configured (if used as a proxy (!)) to respond to request to microsoft.com by serving pages from a local copy of their web site. Thats, btw, why ignorants enter credit cards numbers thinking that they do transactions with royalbank.com ;) In other words: never ever enter credit card when using proxy and not checking security sertificate ;) zb -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 21:15:08 2005 From: tlug-hiR2G3KNSfg at public.gmane.org (Andy Ransom) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 17:15:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <425D1BE4.4090902-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Apr 2005, David J Patrick wrote: > Is it just me, or has the ubuntu team gone on an extended bender, since > the release of Hoary Hedgehog ? Doesn't that depend on which release you are looking for updates to? > I've had nary an up grade since the release, and I find it hard to > believe the worldwide debian development community has taken the week > off, too. If you are using Hoary then it is now a baselined release, there will be minimal changes to it from now on, just security issues and critical bugs. If you want to follow the latest and greatest packages you need to be looking at the Breezy Badger release, but that is brand spanking new and might not be too stable for a while. I say might because I have no looked at Breezy at all yet and didn't look at the Hoary release until it was fairly mature so don't have any direct experience to judge this by. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 23:26:11 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:26:11 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> Message-ID: <425DAA93.4020001@rogers.com> Joseph Kubik wrote: > The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time. > A REALLY hot fire is hard to protect against. However, most > residential fires I've seen were only really hot in the small area > where the fire started and the rest of the building was quickly > extinguished. > > If you are truly paranoid, a stainless steel vacuum flask would work > well, especially if it were in an open metal drum full of water (it > needs to be able to evaporate to provide any real cooling). Then dig a *BIG* hole in your back yard and surround the flask with about 30' of reinforced concrete. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 23:27:17 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:27:17 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <425BF4AF.5090006-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <20050412014051.GB8826@waltdnes.org> <425BC9FD.7040909@knet.ca> <425BF4AF.5090006@knet.ca> Message-ID: <425DAAD5.7090507@rogers.com> teddymills wrote: > JK writes... > The toilet is bad, the ceramic cracks in a fire most of the time.. > > > teddy writes.. > > Where did you get this information from ??? > I would think anything that is used to build kilns from would be pretty > fire retardant. Personal experience. He likes *SPICY* food. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 13 23:32:23 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 19:32:23 -0400 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <425DAC07.7070008@rogers.com> daniel wrote: >>Why are you making this so hard. Dig a 1 meter deep hole (6 inches >>diameter), put the things to be saved in a stainless or plastic >>hermetically closed can, and put it in the hole. If you have drain >>arrangements for rainwater you already have a hole probably. > > > great idea... if you have a back yard. > > If you don't, you might be able to find one on e-bay (shipping extra ). ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 00:14:34 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 20:14:34 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <425DB5EA.7040207@rogers.com> Joseph Kubik wrote: > I had rogers high speed cable using the rogers provided motarola cable modem. > The setup went like this: cable guy showed up and setup the modem. > I plugged my laptop running suse linux into the modem via ethernet. > I rebooted. > I opened firefox and used the internet. > > 1 month later: > I had TERRIBLE problems with the modem losing signal strength. After > 10+days of troubleshooting dealing with cable techs.... > The neighbor had spliced my cable with a rat shack splitter and the > sigle was too weak. > All told, Rogers was easy to use, but not reliable enough for me. What's that??? Are you saying that your neighbour (illegally?) tapped into your line and because of that, Rogers is unreliable??? I've been with them for over 5 years, with virtually no connection problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 02:47:34 2005 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:47:34 -0400 Subject: web proxy (I think)? In-Reply-To: <20050413194634.GQ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413193321.GA7805@utoronto.ca> <20050413194634.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050414024734.GA30905@utoronto.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:46:34PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:33:21PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > > > here's my thought: > > > > copy a big chunk of internet to my hd, alongside the ubuntu mirror. > > Then install the hd as hdb on a computer that will be used as a router for > > the network (note: is it hard to set up a router?). Then use some > > kind of system to redirect calls to internet sites to the files that > > have been stored on this hd. > > > > is this called web proxying? Or caching or redirecting or something? > > anyway, that's what I want to do. Also I would like to fool the local > > machines into thinking that my ubuntu repository is in fact the one > > that's pointed to in their apt-get ocnfiguration files. > > No not really, I think it's called copying the contents of a stie to a > local web server and making it respond to the request for the original > hostname. gotcha > > You can use the virtual hosts in apache to serve each of the hostnames > you are mirroring data from. wget is handy for making copies of some > sections of a web server. I was thinking this too. > > > THe idea is to change almost nothing on the client machines, and do > > all the work on the router. So I guess I would need: > > > > *DNS -- any suggestions for something light? > > Use bind9. It works. Everyone knows how it works. It is simple to > use. ok, I'll give it a shot. the manual is a bit opaque though, IMHO. > > > *DHCP -- that should be easy I reckon. Would be nice if folks could > > talk to each other's machines using the locally-defined client > > names. > > The names would be a problem for DNS. DHCP should just point them at > the right nameserver IP. um, I htink I understand that. will try to learn more about it. > > > *Webcrawling Proxy thaingamajig. I've seen the name "Squid" tossed > > around. Is that the right tool for the job? > > I think the righ solution is apache with a copy of what you want to > serve, and then updating the clients to use the new machine's ip as > their package source either though faking the entry on the DNS to the > local server's ip, or updating the clients to use the local name of the > server. I think I'll try to go with the former. thanks, I'll report back when I get somewhere. Matt > > > so, any ideas or solutions? > > Lennart Sorensen ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot: zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 02:48:58 2005 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:48:58 -0400 Subject: web proxy (I think)? In-Reply-To: <20050413195002.GA3850-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413193321.GA7805@utoronto.ca> <20050413195002.GA3850@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050414024858.GB30905@utoronto.ca> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:50:02PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 03:33:21PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > hi there, > > > > THe idea is to change almost nothing on the client machines, and do > > all the work on the router. So I guess I would need: > > > > *DNS -- any suggestions for something light? > > *DHCP -- that should be easy I reckon. Would be nice if folks could > > talk to each other's machines using the locally-defined client > > names. > > *Webcrawling Proxy thaingamajig. I've seen the name "Squid" tossed > > around. Is that the right tool for the job? > > > > so, any ideas or solutions? > > If I read it right, it's just matter of configuring your local webserver > to respond to some other domain. You mean VirtualHost stanzas in httpd.conf? Umm, I think it's more complex than that, isn't it? Lennart's response was more what I was expecting. matt > ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot: zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 02:51:30 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:51:30 -0400 Subject: Speakers wanted July - December 2005 In-Reply-To: <20050413132037.A19245-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425C5A09.8030002@sympatico.ca> <20050413132037.A19245@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <425DDAB2.4070704@sympatico.ca> Anthony de Boer wrote: >David J Patrick wrote: > > >>Oh, and I'll need a projector >>and a smoke machine and flashpots and doo-wap girls ! >> >> > >I'm quite certain that arrangements can be made to have a few female TLUG >members wapping you over the head with blunt objects as you're speaking. > > > I didn't say go-go girls, I said doo-wap girls, there's a difference. I can assure the lasses of linux that I'm all new-age aware feminist-inclined and on their side ! but who doesn't like doo-wap girls ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 02:51:41 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 22:51:41 -0400 Subject: Speakers wanted July - December 2005 In-Reply-To: <20050413185511.GB7009-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425C5A09.8030002@sympatico.ca> <20050413132037.A19245@leftmind.net> <20050413185511.GB7009@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <425DDABD.7040608@sympatico.ca> Leah Cunningham wrote: >Anthony de Boer (adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org) [050413 10:20]: > > >>David J Patrick wrote: >> >> >>>Oh, and I'll need a projector >>>and a smoke machine and flashpots and doo-wap girls ! >>> >>> >>I'm quite certain that arrangements can be made to have a few female TLUG >>members wapping you over the head with blunt objects as you're speaking. >> >> > >I'll volunteer! > > heyyy , I didn't know you could sing ;-) OTOH I don't doubt your wapping ability, ciao, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 03:51:51 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 13 Apr 2005 23:51:51 -0400 Subject: web proxy (I think)? In-Reply-To: <20050414024858.GB30905-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413193321.GA7805@utoronto.ca> <20050413195002.GA3850@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414024858.GB30905@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050414035151.GA1923@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 10:48:58PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > If I read it right, it's just matter of configuring your local webserver > > to respond to some other domain. > > You mean VirtualHost stanzas in httpd.conf? Umm, I think it's more > complex than that, isn't it? Lennart's response was more what I was > expecting. If your own DNS resolves the domain with local zonefile, and your own Web server answers for URL , then how is this different from the real situation? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 04:02:54 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 00:02:54 -0400 Subject: Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050414034445.GA1874-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414034445.GA1874@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050414040254.GA2023@node1.opengeometry.net> I sent this out to , but it's not coming back. So, I'm sending to . Anyways, fill out the timetable, and return to me. On Wed, Apr 13, 2005 at 11:44:45PM -0400, William Park wrote: > If you want to man the TLUG booth at Linux World trade show on > - Apr 18 (9am-6pm) > - Apr 19 (11am-6pm) > - Apr 20 (11am-5pm) > then mark the appropriate time that you're available, and indicate how > many shift you are willing to cover. > > I would like "morning" and "afternoon" shifts, each about 4 hours long > with 1 hour overlap. To cover washroom breaks, coffe breaks, missed > bus, TTC strikes, etc., it would be nice have more than 2 peoples signed > up per shift. You don't have to stay the whole shift, but we want to > avoid empty booth. > > So far, > Apr 18 Apr 19 Apr 20 > (9-6) (11-3) (2-6) (11-3) (2-6) > William Park (1/day) xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx > Leah Cunningham (1) xxx xxx xxx xxx > Bogdan Bejan (any) xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx > Allen Taylor (2 max) xxx xxx xxx xxx xxx > Jeffrey Pikul (any) xxx xxx > > Name (how many shift) ... ... ... ... ... -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 05:24:41 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:24:41 +0500 Subject: Offsite-Use water In-Reply-To: <425DAC07.7070008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050411041336.GA6672@waltdnes.org> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504121344.07436.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <425DAC07.7070008@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 4/14/05, James Knott wrote: > daniel wrote: > > great idea... if you have a back yard. > > If you don't, you might be able to find one on e-bay (shipping extra > ). ;-) Customs would have your hide if you tried to get that shipped over the border! ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 13:05:53 2005 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:05:53 -0400 Subject: Manual for Panasonic KX-P1124 dot matrix printer Message-ID: <425E6AB1.3040503@cogeco.ca> Hi all, I'm back using an old printer of mine ... a Panasonic KX-P1124. It's working great but I can't remember how to take it out of letter quality mode using the printer pushpad. If any of you have a manual or access to one, can you pass on the info. If you can scan the pushpad chart and send it to me, I will be forever greatful. Thanks in advance, Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Phone: (416) 863-2126 CNW Group Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 13:25:09 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 09:25:09 -0400 Subject: OT: Anonymous proxys (for film) Message-ID: <425E6F35.20700@alteeve.com> Hi all, I know this sounds dubious and it is off topic but I was hoping someone here might confirm something for me. A client of mine is in the film industry and just gave me a call about a made-for-tv movie he is working on about addiction, including internet/porn addiction. He has a scene where he wants to show a person at a public library bypassing their filters. The first thing I thought of would be an anonymous proxy but I've not done this before so I didn't want to tell him that for certain. So my question is just what he asked me: How would someone bypass filters at a library? It can't be an uber-l33t thing, it should be a relatively accessible thing. This is a normal person supposedly. Please reply off-list. I welcome flames if this is too off topic, too. :p Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 14:26:27 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:26:27 -0400 Subject: OT: Anonymous proxys (for film) In-Reply-To: <425E6F35.20700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425E6F35.20700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050414102627.yafcayo9jxssogco@www.almatau.com> Quoting Madison Kelly : > Hi all, > > I know this sounds dubious and it is off topic but I was hoping > someone here might confirm something for me. A client of mine is in > the film industry and just gave me a call about a made-for-tv movie > he is working on about addiction, including internet/porn addiction. > > He has a scene where he wants to show a person at a public library > bypassing their filters. The first thing I thought of would be an > anonymous proxy but I've not done this before so I didn't want to > tell him that for certain. > > So my question is just what he asked me: How would someone bypass > filters at a library? It can't be an uber-l33t thing, it should be a > relatively accessible thing. This is a normal person supposedly. See "Firewall piercing HOWTO". Actually, in movies hackers usually open binary files in editors with lots of icons, maybe this is what the film maker needs? :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 14:35:31 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:35:31 -0400 Subject: OT: Anonymous proxys (for film) In-Reply-To: <20050414102627.yafcayo9jxssogco-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <425E6F35.20700@alteeve.com> <20050414102627.yafcayo9jxssogco@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <425E7FB3.4050502@alteeve.com> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting Madison Kelly : > >> Hi all, >> >> I know this sounds dubious and it is off topic but I was hoping >> someone here might confirm something for me. A client of mine is in >> the film industry and just gave me a call about a made-for-tv movie he >> is working on about addiction, including internet/porn addiction. >> >> He has a scene where he wants to show a person at a public library >> bypassing their filters. The first thing I thought of would be an >> anonymous proxy but I've not done this before so I didn't want to tell >> him that for certain. >> >> So my question is just what he asked me: How would someone bypass >> filters at a library? It can't be an uber-l33t thing, it should be a >> relatively accessible thing. This is a normal person supposedly. > > > See "Firewall piercing HOWTO". > Actually, in movies hackers usually open binary files in editors with > lots of > icons, maybe this is what the film maker needs? :-) Gah! Not if I have any influence (which I don't, really). Every time I see a movie on hacking I go bonkers at the interfaces used. It would be so nice to see a somewhat accurate portrayal someday. In this case though the person is supposed to be "Joe Ordinary" so l33t stuff wouldn't fit anyway. I'll Google that string, thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 14:42:28 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:42:28 -0400 Subject: OT: Anonymous proxys (for film) In-Reply-To: <425E6F35.20700-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425E6F35.20700@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050414144228.GR23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 09:25:09AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I know this sounds dubious and it is off topic but I was hoping > someone here might confirm something for me. A client of mine is in the > film industry and just gave me a call about a made-for-tv movie he is > working on about addiction, including internet/porn addiction. > > He has a scene where he wants to show a person at a public library > bypassing their filters. The first thing I thought of would be an > anonymous proxy but I've not done this before so I didn't want to tell > him that for certain. > > So my question is just what he asked me: How would someone bypass > filters at a library? It can't be an uber-l33t thing, it should be a > relatively accessible thing. This is a normal person supposedly. > > Please reply off-list. I welcome flames if this is too off topic, > too. :p Thanks! Well there is always the good old www.anonymizer.com and clones of such services. The proxy there would have to explicitly disallow access to all those anonymizer sites to block such use. Of course google cache is a great way to get at elast the text content of just about any site you could want as long as access to google is permitted (I suppose a smart proxy could block all requests to google that involve asking for a cached copy). Writing a good filtering proxy is VERY hard. So many things people can do to get around them, and you have to continuously update them for new sites that bypass things. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 14:45:37 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:45:37 -0400 Subject: Manual for Panasonic KX-P1124 dot matrix printer In-Reply-To: <425E6AB1.3040503-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <425E6AB1.3040503@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20050414144537.GS23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 09:05:53AM -0400, Terry Tanski wrote: > I'm back using an old printer of mine ... a Panasonic KX-P1124. It's > working great but I can't remember how to take it out of letter quality > mode using the printer pushpad. If any of you have a manual or access to > one, can you pass on the info. If you can scan the pushpad chart and > send it to me, I will be forever greatful. http://www.nefec.org/UPM/printers/mpa14.htm Thank you google. Len Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 14:47:03 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 10:47:03 -0400 Subject: OT: Anonymous proxys (for film) In-Reply-To: <20050414144228.GR23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <425E6F35.20700@alteeve.com> <20050414144228.GR23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <425E8267.5090600@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 09:25:09AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I know this sounds dubious and it is off topic but I was hoping >>someone here might confirm something for me. A client of mine is in the >>film industry and just gave me a call about a made-for-tv movie he is >>working on about addiction, including internet/porn addiction. >> >> He has a scene where he wants to show a person at a public library >>bypassing their filters. The first thing I thought of would be an >>anonymous proxy but I've not done this before so I didn't want to tell >>him that for certain. >> >> So my question is just what he asked me: How would someone bypass >>filters at a library? It can't be an uber-l33t thing, it should be a >>relatively accessible thing. This is a normal person supposedly. >> >> Please reply off-list. I welcome flames if this is too off topic, >>too. :p Thanks! > > > Well there is always the good old www.anonymizer.com and clones of such > services. The proxy there would have to explicitly disallow access to > all those anonymizer sites to block such use. > > Of course google cache is a great way to get at elast the text content > of just about any site you could want as long as access to google is > permitted (I suppose a smart proxy could block all requests to google > that involve asking for a cached copy). > > Writing a good filtering proxy is VERY hard. So many things people can > do to get around them, and you have to continuously update them for new > sites that bypass things. > > Len Sorensen That was the site I was thinking of and couldn't remember! Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 17:02:49 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:02:49 -0400 Subject: Prior meetings' slides for display at LinuxWorld Canada Message-ID: <20050414170249.GD6052@sophocles> I'm collecting slides and other presentation materials from past TLUG meetings so that they can be put on display at our booth at LinuxWorld Canada (and the later possibility of our website). If you have them, please send them to me, not the list. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 17:08:35 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:08:35 -0400 Subject: help with 'cron' Message-ID: <425EA393.1040507@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am going slightly mad here trying to get 'cron' working. I've read a fair bit on cron, I am more or less sure I've got the syntax right, but it just won't run. I've even looked at working crontab files... I am trying to run a perl script (eventually) and a bash script (for testing). At this point I have a very simple perl script that reads what command line switches it was passed and prints it out. When it tries to run it though I get an invalid terminal error. So I decided to try calling it through a shell script with 'export TERM=xterm' and that worked a couple of times but now it doesn't. I've tried having cron email me but it doesn't want to do that, either. I have even tried redirecting the scipt output to a file just to see if it's running but nothing there, either. All I want to do is have cron call a perl script with certain switches at a given time... As I understand this is what cron should be really good at. So I've created this file: -=-=- [madison at akane cgi-bin]$ cat data/cron SHELL=/bin/bash PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin MAILTO=linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 30 23 * * * /usr/share/tle-bu/cgi-bin/backup.pl --id=4 -y -=-=- The actual script called I've changed between the perl script and the shell script while testing. Ideally I'd like to just call the perl script without the hassle of an intermediary shell script but to set the terminal. Here is the output after I load it: -=-=- [madison at akane cgi-bin]$ crontab -r && crontab data/cron && crontab -l SHELL=/bin/bash PATH=/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/sbin:/usr/sbin MAILTO=linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 30 23 * * * /usr/share/tle-bu/cgi-bin/backup.pl --id=4 -y -=-=- Now for testing I've set the time to '* * * * *' so that it should run every minute but that doesn't seem to make any difference as it never seems to run anyway. This is on FC3 running 'vixie-cron-4.1-24_FC3'. Is anyone here good at cron and able to give me some insight as to what is wrong or maybe even just some tips on better testing or debugging techniques? Ideally is there any way to tell cron to run manually (rather than waiting for the given time) to make it easier to test? Thanks all! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 17:22:58 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 13:22:58 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <425DB5EA.7040207-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425DB5EA.7040207@rogers.com> Message-ID: I appologize, I did not have time to continue the litany of problems. The fact that it took rogers 10 days to figure out what the problem was, I find disturbing. If the signal strength at the wall is low, either backtrace the cable or run a new one. If the signal is good at the wall, tell me to run a new line in my house. The final 10 day resolution was that the cable between my house and the pole was faulty. The next problem I encountered was that my neighbor "tapped" my line. That took me 36 hours to track down a repair. The next problem took 48 hours to remedy, and was a faulty connection somewhere in the region of the pole. Not to mention the ~5+ times that the modem would just drop the link for a couple of hours, and then come back. All of this was between Nov-1 and APR-1 (5 months). 5*30 = 150 days, 13.5 days offline, so that is a documented 91% uptime. So, considerably more reliable than the CRM tool at work, but not nearly what I expect out of my ISP. -Joseph- On 4/13/05, James Knott wrote: > Joseph Kubik wrote: > > I had rogers high speed cable using the rogers provided motarola cable modem. > > The setup went like this: cable guy showed up and setup the modem. > > I plugged my laptop running suse linux into the modem via ethernet. > > I rebooted. > > I opened firefox and used the internet. > > > > 1 month later: > > I had TERRIBLE problems with the modem losing signal strength. After > > 10+days of troubleshooting dealing with cable techs.... > > The neighbor had spliced my cable with a rat shack splitter and the > > sigle was too weak. > > All told, Rogers was easy to use, but not reliable enough for me. > > What's that??? Are you saying that your neighbour (illegally?) tapped > into your line and because of that, Rogers is unreliable??? I've been > with them for over 5 years, with virtually no connection problems. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 17:36:43 2005 From: webstuff-MKqfGmd6cJs0gtvRndBQZNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Craig Routledge) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 17:36:43 +0000 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <200504131456.07881.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> (from jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Wed Apr 13 10:56:07 2005) References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <200504131456.07881.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <1113500203l.4486l.0l@localhost.localdomain> > On April 13, 2005 02:29 pm, Howard Gibson wrote: > > A non-computer-geek friend of mine has finally broken down and > > bought a computer. He has installed Fedora_2 from the Red Hat > > Fedore Linux 2 Bible. > > > > He is looking into getting high speed internet. He has called > > Sympatico and has been told that they do not support Linux. On 04/13/2005 10:56:07 AM, Jason Shein wrote: > For those of you who are on Sympatico, the speedstream modems have a > firewall in them that will prevent remote administration, personal FTP > server etc. > > But there is a workaround. :) > > This is for the Speedstream 5200, if you have a differnet model google > it, the info is out there. Ah, I just had to do this for a Sympatico user. So here is my experience. I found I could set things up a little easier if you don't need to configure too many options. Again, this is for a SpeedStream 5200 DSL modem. (Skip this paragraph if you've never connected via Windows.) I recently switched my brother's machine from Windows98 over to Fedora Core 3. The SpeedStream that Bell sent him was already configured from the windows installation and automatically connected without intervention from the PC. So, when FC3 first booted, it automatically detected the ethernet card and fetched the necessary information. It was on the Internet out of the box. If you have such a setup you might wish to turn off the modem on first boot until you have a chance to review your security, although FC3 is pretty good by default. If you need to setup the DSL modem, point your web browser at 192.168.0.1 and you'll get a customized Sympatico interface for the SpeedStream. This is stripped down, but is enough to enter your userid and password and get connected. If you want to allow incoming connections for services, you can customize using Jason Shein's method. Or you can disable the router/firewall functionality of the SpeedStream 5200 and let your Linux box handle that. Since I already understand iptables, I went this route. There is a mode setting that controls this, although I forget the name at the moment. It's easy to find since Bell doesn't provide many options. Once you've done that, you need to get your PC to do the connecting to the network. Check your firewall settings in iptables. Then (on Fedora anyways) run in a terminal as root "adsl-setup" and answer the questions. All done. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 18:56:37 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 14:56:37 -0400 Subject: help with 'cron' In-Reply-To: <425EA393.1040507-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425EA393.1040507@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050414185637.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 01:08:35PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am going slightly mad here trying to get 'cron' working. I've read > a fair bit on cron, I am more or less sure I've got the syntax right, > but it just won't run. I've even looked at working crontab files... > > I am trying to run a perl script (eventually) and a bash script (for > testing). At this point I have a very simple perl script that reads what > command line switches it was passed and prints it out. When it tries to > run it though I get an invalid terminal error. So I decided to try > calling it through a shell script with 'export TERM=xterm' and that > worked a couple of times but now it doesn't. > > I've tried having cron email me but it doesn't want to do that, > either. I have even tried redirecting the scipt output to a file just to > see if it's running but nothing there, either. > > All I want to do is have cron call a perl script with certain > switches at a given time... As I understand this is what cron should be > really good at. So I've created this file: Some hints about cron: Everything run in cron has: No PATH by default. Use explicit paths to all commands or add a PATH to your script. No terminal (it isn't running on a tty so don't try to do anything that requires a tty to exist). stdout/stderr are logged and mailed if any output occours. Interactive programs won't work. If they need a tty, sometimes you can use screen in interesting ways to fake one but I am not sure about that one. Also: The crontab should end in a blank line to ensure that each line you care about ends in a linefeed, since cron demands all lines end in a linefeed or they are ignored. Maybe that helps a little. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 19:00:08 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:00:08 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: <20050413152444.GA10494@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <425DB5EA.7040207@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050414190008.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 01:22:58PM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > I appologize, I did not have time to continue the litany of problems. > > The fact that it took rogers 10 days to figure out what the problem > was, I find disturbing. > If the signal strength at the wall is low, either backtrace the cable > or run a new one. > If the signal is good at the wall, tell me to run a new line in my house. > The final 10 day resolution was that the cable between my house and > the pole was faulty. > > The next problem I encountered was that my neighbor "tapped" my line. > That took me 36 hours to track down a repair. I wonder how a DSL modem would have tolerated your neighbour tapping your phone line (Answer: It won't since the line won't have filters on it). Of course you would notice if someone else was using your phone line, which you don't with cable so it's not the same thing. > The next problem took 48 hours to remedy, and was a faulty connection > somewhere in the region of the pole. > > Not to mention the ~5+ times that the modem would just drop the link > for a couple of hours, and then come back. > > All of this was between Nov-1 and APR-1 (5 months). > > 5*30 = 150 days, 13.5 days offline, so that is a documented 91% uptime. > So, considerably more reliable than the CRM tool at work, but not > nearly what I expect out of my ISP. Well yes rogers can be a pain. You seem to have been harder than most, although hardly a unique situation either. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 19:06:53 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:06:53 -0400 Subject: help with 'cron' In-Reply-To: <20050414185637.GT23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <425EA393.1040507@alteeve.com> <20050414185637.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <425EBF4D.9040508@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Some hints about cron: > > Everything run in cron has: > > No PATH by default. Use explicit paths to all commands or add a PATH to > your script. > > No terminal (it isn't running on a tty so don't try to do anything that > requires a tty to exist). stdout/stderr are logged and mailed if any > output occours. Interactive programs won't work. If they need a tty, > sometimes you can use screen in interesting ways to fake one but I am > not sure about that one. > > Also: > > The crontab should end in a blank line to ensure that each line you care > about ends in a linefeed, since cron demands all lines end in a linefeed > or they are ignored. > > Maybe that helps a little. > > Lennart Sorensen >_O It was the missing line feed at the end I think... Thanks muchly! Madison - back to tieing up loose ends... -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 19:09:17 2005 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 15:09:17 -0400 Subject: Brocade June 21 and 22 Message-ID: <425EBFDD.9090208@knet.ca> SAN/NAS Storage...Conference.... Brocade invites you to attend Brocade Conference 2005: Make the Connection. When it comes to making the connection, no other event matches it for technical learning and networking among your peers. Now's the time to register and check out the updated Conference agenda! * * ? More than ten technical breakout sessions and three tutorials covering the latest in SAN technology and new Brocade products ? Industry analyst keynote "SAN and Storage Technologies and Forecasts" by Richard L. Villars, VP of Storage Systems Research at IDC ? Free copy of the latest Brocade book /"Principles of SAN Design"/ ? Special Channel Partner appreciation luncheon and training * June 1-2, 2005* Santa Clara Marriott San Jose Bay Area, California * June 7-8, 2005* Chicago Marriott Downtown Magnificent Mile Chicago, Illinois *June 21-22, 2005* Metro Toronto Convention Center Toronto, Canada *June 27-28, 2005* Millennium Broadway Hotel New York, New York *Learn more and register today at: *www.brocade.com/conference2005 Brocade would like to thank this year's Conference Platinum sponsors: (c) 2005 Brocade Communications Systems, Inc. All Rights Reserved. All brands, products, or service names are or may be trademarks or service marks of, and are used to identify, products or services of their respective owners. If teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org should not be subscribed or if you need to change your subscription information for Brocade, please use this preferences page . Brocade Communications Systems, Inc. - 1745 Technology Drive - San Jose, CA 95110 -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: David Fleury - Brocade Subject: Brocade Conference Coming to Toronto - June 21 and 22nd, 2005! Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 11:14:27 -0700 Size: 14296 URL: From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 20:33:59 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:33:59 -0400 Subject: help with 'cron' In-Reply-To: <20050414185637.GT23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <425EA393.1040507@alteeve.com> <20050414185637.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <425ED3B7.70301@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > ... cron demands all lines end in a linefeed or they are ignored. *All* unix text files are supposed to be like that, though that's kind of lost in the mists of time. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 20:55:09 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 16:55:09 -0400 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <425D1BE4.4090902-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <425ED8AD.6080607@sympatico.ca> David J Patrick wrote: >Is it just me, or has the ubuntu team gone on an extended bender, since >the release of Hoary Hedgehog ? > it's been a week since the last update from hoary main, security,universe nor multiverse, and it's creepin me out ! I can almost believe that the ubuntu crew is languishing on a cruise ship somewhere, but the entire debian universe ? I must busted somethin' djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 14 18:57:43 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 18:57:43 +0000 Subject: ubuntu apt-get nuthin ! In-Reply-To: <425ED8AD.6080607-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <425D1BE4.4090902@sympatico.ca> <425ED8AD.6080607@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 2005-14-04 at 16:55 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > >Is it just me, or has the ubuntu team gone on an extended bender, since > >the release of Hoary Hedgehog ? > > > it's been a week since the last update from hoary main, > security,universe nor multiverse, and it's creepin me out ! > I can almost believe that the ubuntu crew is languishing on a cruise > ship somewhere, but the entire debian universe ? > I must busted somethin' > djp > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Well, I've been updating away with the new Breezy repositories today. They're just like Hoary was to Warty, simply a continuation from where things left off. Check it out. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 00:56:36 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 20:56:36 -0400 Subject: OT: Anonymous proxys (for film) In-Reply-To: <425E7FB3.4050502-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <425E6F35.20700@alteeve.com> <20050414102627.yafcayo9jxssogco@www.almatau.com> <425E7FB3.4050502@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <425F1144.5010505@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Ilya Palagin wrote: > >> Quoting Madison Kelly : >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I know this sounds dubious and it is off topic but I was hoping >>> someone here might confirm something for me. A client of mine is in >>> the film industry and just gave me a call about a made-for-tv movie >>> he is working on about addiction, including internet/porn addiction. >>> >>> He has a scene where he wants to show a person at a public library >>> bypassing their filters. The first thing I thought of would be an >>> anonymous proxy but I've not done this before so I didn't want to >>> tell him that for certain. >>> >>> So my question is just what he asked me: How would someone bypass >>> filters at a library? It can't be an uber-l33t thing, it should be a >>> relatively accessible thing. This is a normal person supposedly. >> >> >> >> See "Firewall piercing HOWTO". >> Actually, in movies hackers usually open binary files in editors with >> lots of >> icons, maybe this is what the film maker needs? :-) > > > Gah! Not if I have any influence (which I don't, really). Every time I > see a movie on hacking I go bonkers at the interfaces used. It would be > so nice to see a somewhat accurate portrayal someday. In this case > though the person is supposed to be "Joe Ordinary" so l33t stuff > wouldn't fit anyway. Why is it computer displays in movies and TV shows often make machine noises? And why is the text much larger than anyone is likely to use? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 02:37:43 2005 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:37:43 -0400 Subject: OT: onboard video dead, what next? Message-ID: <20050415023743.GA24954@utoronto.ca> hi folks, ok, what do I do now... I have a Dell Optiplex GX1 (Don't kno much about the motherboard 'cept it's a funky folded-up board w/ the PCI slots at right angles to the rest of the board). It seems to me to boot up fine, to find, for instance, the hard drive and the CD; ethernet connects fine (I can ping but naught else -- I think the hard drive has windows something-or-other installed on it); but I get no signal out of the onboard video (this worked fine last time I tried the machine out but it's been used by a not-so-careful friend for a while). I actually want to set this up as a server so am not too particular about the video access.. but I guess I need video to e.g. see the BIOS screen or any other such thing. So what do I do next? Anyone know the procedure? thanks, matt ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot: zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 02:55:29 2005 From: talexb-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alex Beamish) Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2005 22:55:29 -0400 Subject: OT: onboard video dead, what next? In-Reply-To: <20050415023743.GA24954-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050415023743.GA24954@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On 4/14/05, Matt Price wrote: > hi folks, > > ok, what do I do now... I have a Dell Optiplex GX1 (Don't kno much > about the motherboard 'cept it's a funky folded-up board w/ the PCI > slots at right angles to the rest of the board). It seems to me to > boot up fine, to find, for instance, the hard drive and the CD; > ethernet connects fine (I can ping but naught else -- I think the hard > drive has windows something-or-other installed on it); but I get no > signal out of the onboard video (this worked fine last time I tried > the machine out but it's been used by a not-so-careful friend for a > while). I actually want to set this up as a server so am not too > particular about the video access.. but I guess I need video to > e.g. see the BIOS screen or any other such thing. > > So what do I do next? Anyone know the procedure? I would try throwing in some cheapie video card to see if the machine will also display at the POST on that. From there, you may be able to get the BIOS to select the cheapie video card and not the on board video. I'm not familiar with the Dell, but give it a shot. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 03:26:51 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 03:26:51 +0000 Subject: OT: onboard video dead, what next? In-Reply-To: References: <20050415023743.GA24954@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200504150326.51583.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 15, 2005 02:55 am, Alex Beamish wrote: > On 4/14/05, Matt Price wrote: > > hi folks, > > > > ok, what do I do now... I have a Dell Optiplex GX1 (Don't kno much > > about the motherboard 'cept it's a funky folded-up board w/ the PCI > > slots at right angles to the rest of the board). It seems to me to > > boot up fine, to find, for instance, the hard drive and the CD; > > ethernet connects fine (I can ping but naught else -- I think the hard > > drive has windows something-or-other installed on it); but I get no > > signal out of the onboard video (this worked fine last time I tried > > the machine out but it's been used by a not-so-careful friend for a > > while). I actually want to set this up as a server so am not too > > particular about the video access.. but I guess I need video to > > e.g. see the BIOS screen or any other such thing. > > > > So what do I do next? Anyone know the procedure? > Plug the monitor in. Sorry, it had to be said. ;) Other than that, see if anyone you know has a POST card you can borrow to check for POST error codes. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 12:37:53 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:37:53 -0400 Subject: OT: Anonymous proxys (for film) In-Reply-To: <425F1144.5010505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <425E6F35.20700@alteeve.com> <20050414102627.yafcayo9jxssogco@www.almatau.com> <425E7FB3.4050502@alteeve.com> <425F1144.5010505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050415123753.GV23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 08:56:36PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Why is it computer displays in movies and TV shows often make machine > noises? And why is the text much larger than anyone is likely to use? ;-) Because they are using C64s :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 12:45:16 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 08:45:16 -0400 Subject: OT: onboard video dead, what next? In-Reply-To: <20050415023743.GA24954-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050415023743.GA24954@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050415124516.GW23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 10:37:43PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > ok, what do I do now... I have a Dell Optiplex GX1 (Don't kno much > about the motherboard 'cept it's a funky folded-up board w/ the PCI > slots at right angles to the rest of the board). It seems to me to > boot up fine, to find, for instance, the hard drive and the CD; > ethernet connects fine (I can ping but naught else -- I think the hard > drive has windows something-or-other installed on it); but I get no > signal out of the onboard video (this worked fine last time I tried > the machine out but it's been used by a not-so-careful friend for a > while). I actually want to set this up as a server so am not too > particular about the video access.. but I guess I need video to > e.g. see the BIOS screen or any other such thing. > > So what do I do next? Anyone know the procedure? I imagine putting in a PCI video card should actually work. Normally adding an add in video card would disable the onboard automatically on machiens of that era. The onboard video is an ATI Rage Pro AGP, and it probably is setup to use PCI over AGP if given multiple video cards (most were at the time) so that you can replace the onboard with an add in if you wanted to). If you care, the GX1 is an intel 440BX, running usually a Pentium 2 or 3 at some range of speeds around 450MHz and such (at least the one we have here is a P3 450). It allows RAM up to 256MB per slot (double sided dimms _only_) or 128M (can be single sided) of PC100 or 133 ram. Onboard ethernet is 3c905 based. This one is a 3c905B. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 14:18:45 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 10:18:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft "security" comic Message-ID: <20050415141845.98827.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> One on-line comic strip that I try to check on a daily basis is "Kevin and Kell" which normally follows the (mis-)adventures of a wolf married to a rabbit, but from time to time they sort of diverge from that story line. Here is a comic about Microsoft security system, worth a laugh: http://www.kevinandkell.com/2005/kk0415.html Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 15:09:59 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:09:59 -0400 Subject: Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050414040254.GA2023-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414034445.GA1874@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414040254.GA2023@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050415150959.GA2142@node1.opengeometry.net> Last chance guys... If you want to man the TLUG booth at Linux World trade show on Apr 18,19,20, then mark the appropriate time that you're available, and indicate how many shift you are willing to cover. So far, Apr 19 Apr 20 (11-3)(2-6) (11-3)(2-6) William Park (1/day) xxx xxx Leah Cunningham (1) xxx Bogdan Bejan (any) xxx xxx Allen Taylor (2 max) xxx xxx Jeffrey Pikul (any) xxx xxx Seneca Cunningham (any) xxx xxx Gordon Chillcott xxx -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ulf.kellermann-IcexAN+8CcBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 15:33:45 2005 From: ulf.kellermann-IcexAN+8CcBBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ulf Kellermann) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:33:45 -0400 Subject: Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050415150959.GA2142-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414040254.GA2023@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050415150959.GA2142@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200504151133.45426.ulf.kellermann@exaecon.com> I'm be there on Tuesday and Wednesday Ulf On Friday 15 April 2005 11:09, William Park wrote: > Last chance guys... > > If you want to man the TLUG booth at Linux World trade show on Apr > 18,19,20, then mark the appropriate time that you're available, and > indicate how many shift you are willing to cover. > > So far, > Apr 19 Apr 20 > (11-3)(2-6) (11-3)(2-6) > William Park (1/day) xxx xxx > Leah Cunningham (1) xxx > Bogdan Bejan (any) xxx xxx > Allen Taylor (2 max) xxx xxx > Jeffrey Pikul (any) xxx xxx > Seneca Cunningham (any) xxx xxx > Gordon Chillcott xxx -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jieshu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 15:50:41 2005 From: jieshu-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay Shu) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 11:50:41 -0400 Subject: Volunteering at Linux World trade show References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414034445.GA1874@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414040254.GA2023@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050415150959.GA2142@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <008201c541d3$731d92b0$ff44c345@t40> hi, I'm new here, and I'll be there on Tuesday. If I can do anything help, please let me know. Jay Shu ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Park" To: Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 11:09 AM Subject: [TLUG]: Re: Volunteering at Linux World trade show > Last chance guys... > > If you want to man the TLUG booth at Linux World trade show on Apr > 18,19,20, then mark the appropriate time that you're available, and > indicate how many shift you are willing to cover. > > So far, > Apr 19 Apr 20 > (11-3)(2-6) (11-3)(2-6) > William Park (1/day) xxx xxx > Leah Cunningham (1) xxx > Bogdan Bejan (any) xxx xxx > Allen Taylor (2 max) xxx xxx > Jeffrey Pikul (any) xxx xxx > Seneca Cunningham (any) xxx xxx > Gordon Chillcott xxx > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > Slackware Linux -- because it works. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 19:08:42 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:08:42 -0700 Subject: PegaSoft - Thursday - SDL Library Message-ID: <1113592122.20819.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Thursday, April 21, 2005 at 7:00 pm at Orwell's Pub. Ken Burtch will be talking about the SDL gaming library. Please contact to Mel Wilson if you are going to attend. For more information, visit the PegaSoft web site at http://www.pegasoft.ca. KB -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 16:45:34 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Projector Message-ID: Hi all. This time the request for a projector is not for a TLUG meeting but the talk by Maddor Hall and Mark Spencer, the creator of Asterisk. Time: 7:30pm, Thursday April 21st, 2005 Place: Room 1130 Bahen Centre, at the University of Toronto 40 St. George Street Toronto, ON Anyone who can assist with a projector please email the organiser, Simon P. Ditner Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 18:21:05 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:21:05 -0400 Subject: Microsoft "security" comic In-Reply-To: <20050415141845.98827.qmail-7EKNVtTItHqB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050415141845.98827.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20050415142105.lnm7z2xcvk1wg04c@www.almatau.com> Quoting Colin McGregor : > One on-line comic strip that I try to check on a daily > basis is "Kevin and Kell" which normally follows the > (mis-)adventures of a wolf married to a rabbit, but > from time to time they sort of diverge from that story > line. Here is a comic about Microsoft security system, > worth a laugh: > > http://www.kevinandkell.com/2005/kk0415.html > > Colin McGregor Clippy in Vim http://www.webpark.ru/images/HitMan/1113549002_1.gif (Clippy is useless and annoying assistant in M$office) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 18:41:24 2005 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:41:24 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <42600AD4.7060403@interlog.com> Howard Gibson wrote: >Also, someone else asked me about Linux and USB modems. I have directed him to the Linux USB website. http://www.linux-usb.org/, which looks informative. Is there personal experience out there I can pass on? > Peter Hiscocks wrote: >My experience is that USB modems don't work with Linux. > I am surprised that Peter wasn't able to get a USB (cable?) modem working. I made the switch to from dial-up to Rogers for high speed Internet access back in August of 2004. I ordered it as a self-install. Two guys from Rogers came. Once the wiring was in place the modem was connected to the line and tested. After that it was up to me to get it going with my computer. Unlike in the past, I was not given a NIC. The cable modem only came with a USB cable. I wanted to use a USB connection to the cable modem anyway since my NIC is used to connect to my laptop. My only concern was how hard it would be to configure Linux to use a cable modem as I remembered the difficulties many people on this list had trying to get their Linux boxes set up in the early days of cable based access to the net. Setting up the Windows side of the machine was no problem. Setting up the Linux side of my machine turned out to be a lot easier than I expected. My cable modem back then was a Motoroloa Terayon TJ615. I eventualy found that the key to getting it working under Linux was to select "CDC Ethernet" as the driver for the network interface. The other thing I discovered was that the cable modem interface should be started first so it can set the default gateway. If any other network interfaces start before the cable modem interface make sure they don't set a default gateway or you will have trouble accessing the net. My TJ615 developed some flakiness after a couple of months (it would drop the link to the net and require power cycling to get back on line). Eventually, I had Rogers return to take another look at the modem (the first person who looked at it didn't really do anything). The two guys that showed up had a new modem in hand. Apparantly, when they hear of reports of problems and a TJ615 is involved, they just swap the modem. I now have a Motorola Surfboard 5100 cable modem still connected to my PC via a USB link. It has been working and reliable ever since it was first plugged in. I didn't even have to change the driver. It also worked just fine using the CDC Ethernet driver. Top speeds I have seen during file transfers have hit 355kB/s. Sure beats 56k dial-up! -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 18:43:25 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 14:43:25 -0400 Subject: Microsoft "security" comic In-Reply-To: <20050415142105.lnm7z2xcvk1wg04c-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050415141845.98827.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <20050415142105.lnm7z2xcvk1wg04c@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20050415184325.GA6547@sophocles> On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 02:21:05PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Clippy in Vim > > http://www.webpark.ru/images/HitMan/1113549002_1.gif > > (Clippy is useless and annoying assistant in M$office) Clippy in nvi http://vigor.sourceforge.net http://vigor.sourceforge.net/screenshots/xmms-vigor.avi -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 21:11:42 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 17:11:42 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <42600AD4.7060403-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <42600AD4.7060403@interlog.com> Message-ID: <20050415211142.GX23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 02:41:24PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > I am surprised that Peter wasn't able to get a USB (cable?) modem > working. I made the switch to from dial-up to Rogers for high speed > Internet access back in August of 2004. I ordered it as a self-install. > Two guys from Rogers came. Once the wiring was in place the modem was > connected to the line and tested. After that it was up to me to get it > going with my computer. > > Unlike in the past, I was not given a NIC. The cable modem only came > with a USB cable. I wanted to use a USB connection to the cable modem > anyway since my NIC is used to connect to my laptop. My only concern was > how hard it would be to configure Linux to use a cable modem as I > remembered the difficulties many people on this list had trying to get > their Linux boxes set up in the early days of cable based access to the net. > > Setting up the Windows side of the machine was no problem. Setting up > the Linux side of my machine turned out to be a lot easier than I > expected. My cable modem back then was a Motoroloa Terayon TJ615. I > eventualy found that the key to getting it working under Linux was to > select "CDC Ethernet" as the driver for the network interface. The other > thing I discovered was that the cable modem interface should be started > first so it can set the default gateway. If any other network interfaces > start before the cable modem interface make sure they don't set a > default gateway or you will have trouble accessing the net. > > My TJ615 developed some flakiness after a couple of months (it would > drop the link to the net and require power cycling to get back on line). > Eventually, I had Rogers return to take another look at the modem (the > first person who looked at it didn't really do anything). The two guys > that showed up had a new modem in hand. Apparantly, when they hear of > reports of problems and a TJ615 is involved, they just swap the modem. I > now have a Motorola Surfboard 5100 cable modem still connected to my PC > via a USB link. It has been working and reliable ever since it was first > plugged in. I didn't even have to change the driver. It also worked just > fine using the CDC Ethernet driver. Top speeds I have seen during file > transfers have hit 355kB/s. Sure beats 56k dial-up! Well it is great to know that they all seem to agree to follow the USB CDC ethernet interface standard. Makes life simpler at least without needing drivers. If only usb adsl modems would do the same. As for transfer rates, I have hit just over 600KB/s on my motorola surfboard (I think 5100). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 15 23:32:52 2005 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:32:52 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <20050415211142.GX23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 05:11:42PM -0400 References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <42600AD4.7060403@interlog.com> <20050415211142.GX23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050415193252.A29229@ee.ryerson.ca> Actually, it was a USB DSL modem, Gnet BB0069, that wouldn't play with Linux. I should have said that. There didn't seem to be any linux drivers available for it. Once I figured out (with the help of advice from this group, thank-you, folks) that this wasn't going to work, I asked Pathcom to supply a replacement RJ-45 connected modem Gnet BB0060, for which they charged $80. No tradein of the USB modem, alas. I also added a Linksys router to the system. Pathcom had configured the BB0060 as a standalone modem (without a router) and it had to be reconfigured as a straight pass-through device. Once that was done the system worked fine with 3 to 4 machines connected to the router. I was particularly impressed that I could plug in my laptop with Suse 9.2, reboot, and be connected to the net. (Another suggestion from this group.) Anyway, I have this USB ADSL modem which someone is welcome to if they can use it. Peter On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 05:11:42PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 02:41:24PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: > > I am surprised that Peter wasn't able to get a USB (cable?) modem > > working. I made the switch to from dial-up to Rogers for high speed > > Internet access back in August of 2004. I ordered it as a self-install. > > Two guys from Rogers came. Once the wiring was in place the modem was > > connected to the line and tested. After that it was up to me to get it > > going with my computer. > > > > Unlike in the past, I was not given a NIC. The cable modem only came > > with a USB cable. I wanted to use a USB connection to the cable modem > > anyway since my NIC is used to connect to my laptop. My only concern was > > how hard it would be to configure Linux to use a cable modem as I > > remembered the difficulties many people on this list had trying to get > > their Linux boxes set up in the early days of cable based access to the net. > > > > Setting up the Windows side of the machine was no problem. Setting up > > the Linux side of my machine turned out to be a lot easier than I > > expected. My cable modem back then was a Motoroloa Terayon TJ615. I > > eventualy found that the key to getting it working under Linux was to > > select "CDC Ethernet" as the driver for the network interface. The other > > thing I discovered was that the cable modem interface should be started > > first so it can set the default gateway. If any other network interfaces > > start before the cable modem interface make sure they don't set a > > default gateway or you will have trouble accessing the net. > > > > My TJ615 developed some flakiness after a couple of months (it would > > drop the link to the net and require power cycling to get back on line). > > Eventually, I had Rogers return to take another look at the modem (the > > first person who looked at it didn't really do anything). The two guys > > that showed up had a new modem in hand. Apparantly, when they hear of > > reports of problems and a TJ615 is involved, they just swap the modem. I > > now have a Motorola Surfboard 5100 cable modem still connected to my PC > > via a USB link. It has been working and reliable ever since it was first > > plugged in. I didn't even have to change the driver. It also worked just > > fine using the CDC Ethernet driver. Top speeds I have seen during file > > transfers have hit 355kB/s. Sure beats 56k dial-up! > > Well it is great to know that they all seem to agree to follow the USB > CDC ethernet interface standard. Makes life simpler at least without > needing drivers. If only usb adsl modems would do the same. > > As for transfer rates, I have hit just over 600KB/s on my motorola > surfboard (I think 5100). > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 04:09:20 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 00:09:20 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <42600AD4.7060403@interlog.com> <20050415211142.GX23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050415193252.A29229@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Hiscocks" To: Cc: "Jim Koch" Sent: Friday, April 15, 2005 7:32 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff > > Actually, it was a USB DSL modem, Gnet BB0069, that wouldn't play with > Linux. I should have said that. There didn't seem to be any linux drivers > available for it. > > Once I figured out (with the help of advice from this group, thank-you, > folks) that this wasn't going to work, I asked Pathcom to supply a > replacement RJ-45 connected modem Gnet BB0060, for which they charged $80. > No tradein of the USB modem, alas. I also added a Linksys router to the > system. > > Pathcom had configured the BB0060 as a standalone modem (without a router) > and it had to be reconfigured as a straight pass-through device. Once that > was done the system worked fine with 3 to 4 machines connected to the > router. I was particularly impressed that I could plug in my laptop with > Suse > 9.2, reboot, and be connected to the net. (Another suggestion from this > group.) > > Anyway, I have this USB ADSL modem which someone is welcome to if they can > use it. > > Peter > > > On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 05:11:42PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 02:41:24PM -0400, Kevin Cozens wrote: >> > I am surprised that Peter wasn't able to get a USB (cable?) modem >> > working. I made the switch to from dial-up to Rogers for high speed >> > Internet access back in August of 2004. I ordered it as a self-install. >> > Two guys from Rogers came. Once the wiring was in place the modem was >> > connected to the line and tested. After that it was up to me to get it >> > going with my computer. >> > >> > Unlike in the past, I was not given a NIC. The cable modem only came >> > with a USB cable. I wanted to use a USB connection to the cable modem >> > anyway since my NIC is used to connect to my laptop. My only concern >> > was >> > how hard it would be to configure Linux to use a cable modem as I >> > remembered the difficulties many people on this list had trying to get >> > their Linux boxes set up in the early days of cable based access to the >> > net. >> > >> > Setting up the Windows side of the machine was no problem. Setting up >> > the Linux side of my machine turned out to be a lot easier than I >> > expected. My cable modem back then was a Motoroloa Terayon TJ615. I >> > eventualy found that the key to getting it working under Linux was to >> > select "CDC Ethernet" as the driver for the network interface. The >> > other >> > thing I discovered was that the cable modem interface should be started >> > first so it can set the default gateway. If any other network >> > interfaces >> > start before the cable modem interface make sure they don't set a >> > default gateway or you will have trouble accessing the net. >> > >> > My TJ615 developed some flakiness after a couple of months (it would >> > drop the link to the net and require power cycling to get back on >> > line). >> > Eventually, I had Rogers return to take another look at the modem (the >> > first person who looked at it didn't really do anything). The two guys >> > that showed up had a new modem in hand. Apparantly, when they hear of >> > reports of problems and a TJ615 is involved, they just swap the modem. >> > I >> > now have a Motorola Surfboard 5100 cable modem still connected to my PC >> > via a USB link. It has been working and reliable ever since it was >> > first >> > plugged in. I didn't even have to change the driver. It also worked >> > just >> > fine using the CDC Ethernet driver. Top speeds I have seen during file >> > transfers have hit 355kB/s. Sure beats 56k dial-up! >> >> Well it is great to know that they all seem to agree to follow the USB >> CDC ethernet interface standard. Makes life simpler at least without >> needing drivers. If only usb adsl modems would do the same. >> >> As for transfer rates, I have hit just over 600KB/s on my motorola >> surfboard (I think 5100). >> >> Lennart Sorensen >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > Peter D. Hiscocks > Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering > Ryerson University, > 350 Victoria Street, > Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada > > Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 > Fax: (416) 979-5280 > Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org > URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > I'd write them a letter complaining. They should know that USB modems aren't very functional with Linux and ADSL (I'm sure you aren't the only one to have had the same problem with them). Since they only require "An IBM PC or clone... or a MAC computer running MacOS 8 or greater" to use your connection, implying that there is not a clearly defined lack of support for Linux, which you are paying for regardless, you shouldn't have to pay extra for an RJ-45 capable modem (surely they can just take your onld one and sell it to someone else). Thoughts? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 00:50:06 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 20:50:06 -0400 Subject: (Final) Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050415150959.GA2142-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414034445.GA1874@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414040254.GA2023@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050415150959.GA2142@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050416005006.GA5904@node1.opengeometry.net> Final schedule... I tried to schedule one day per person. We got 4 per shift, so it should cover unforseen events. Apr 19 Apr 20 (11-3)(2-6) (11-3)(2-6) William Park (any) xxx xxx Leah Cunningham (1) xxx Bogdan Bejan (any) xxx xxx Allen Taylor (2 max) xxx xxx Jeffrey Pikul (any) xxx xxx Seneca Cunningham (any) xxx xxx Gordon Chillcott xxx Ulf Kellermann (any) xxx xxx Jay Shu (any) xxx xxx -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 01:26:37 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 21:26:37 -0400 Subject: Donation List Message-ID: <008a01c54223$558698a0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> I would like to have a donor list at the show (with a small number of copies for distribution), something along the lines of the following (and suggestion, corrections, etc are VERY welcome): -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The Toronto Linux User Group would like to thank the follow people and organisations for making our presence at this show possible: Robert Brockway Innovation Toronto Ulf Kellermann John Myshrall OpenTrend Solutions William Park David J Patrick Plum Communications Tenth Power Inc. ... and our many volunteers The Toronto Linux User Group would also like to thank the organisations that help support our efforts on an ongoing basis: IBM Canada Limited Seneca College of Applied Arts and Technology Systems Software Computer Consulting University of Toronto ... and our many volunteers -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- In case anyone is unfamiliar with some of the names listed, - Plum Communications is running the trade show, and supplied us with the booth. - Innovation Toronto (aka G.T.C.C., reSource) is loaning booth furnishings, and computers. - Systems Software Computer Consulting supports our mailing list (on ss.org). - IBM, Seneca, and U of T supply meeting space. - Everyone else is supplying money for power / photocopies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 02:33:17 2005 From: lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:33:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webcams that available in market? Message-ID: Hi! Can you help me a little bit here? Do you know webcams that can easily work with Linux that available in current market in Canada? I look in http://www.linux-usb.org/ but most camera listed there is not in the market anymore, or not in Canada market. I prefer Creative's camera, because from the reviews they seem to have relatively good picture quality. But so far I can only find Creative Instant and Creative Live!, both won't work with spca5xx module, and zc030x module won't run in my machine although compiled without problem. Any suggestion? Thanks! -- Stephan Paul Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 02:56:32 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:56:32 +0500 Subject: Webcams that available in market? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/16/05, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > > Do you know webcams that can easily work with Linux that > available in current market in Canada? > I'm also curious. Also.. what software is involved with properly using this: * as a camera? * to host a streaming video server? * to record video clips? * to use as an instant messenger camera (is this possible? Is there an "msn-like" IM which can do this? Btw, I looked at that fancy creative auto-tracking thing.. it looks great, although I heard the motor in it is audible. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 03:07:00 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:07 -0400 Subject: Webcams that available in market? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <891-SnapperMsgB9FE4EF2BE8631E9@69.158.242.228> Goto www.zoneminder.com and look around in the documentation. There is a good camera list there ___ Sent with SnapperMail www.snappermail.com ...... Original Message ....... On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 07:56:32 +0500 "Sy" wrote: >On 4/16/05, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: >> >> Do you know webcams that can easily work with Linux that >> available in current market in Canada? >> > >I'm also curious. Also.. what software is involved with properly using this: > >* as a camera? >* to host a streaming video server? >* to record video clips? >* to use as an instant messenger camera (is this possible? Is there >an "msn-like" IM which can do this? > >Btw, I looked at that fancy creative auto-tracking thing.. it looks >great, although I heard the motor in it is audible. =/ >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 06:06:10 2005 From: lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:06:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webcams that available in market? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > * as a camera? video4linux & xawtv? > * to host a streaming video server? VideoLan. Icecast? > * to record video clips? video4linux & xawtv? > * to use as an instant messenger camera (is this possible? > Is there an "msn-like" IM which can do this? gnomemeeting. > Btw, I looked at that fancy creative auto-tracking thing.. it > looks great, although I heard the motor in it is audible. =/ Which Creative have traking motor in it? -- Stephan Paul Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 06:13:19 2005 From: lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 02:13:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Webcams that available in market? In-Reply-To: <891-SnapperMsgB9FE4EF2BE8631E9-2CWm9+y+MFYaJMj/jyGRwQ@public.gmane.org> References: <891-SnapperMsgB9FE4EF2BE8631E9@69.158.242.228> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: > Goto www.zoneminder.com and look around in the documentation. > There is a good camera list there I take a look, the list they have is similar to the one in http://www.linux-usb.org/, mostly outdated. Thanks, though. -- Stephan Paul Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 10:20:55 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:20:55 +0500 Subject: Webcams that available in market? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:07 -0400, Jason Shein wrote: > Goto www.zoneminder.com and look around in the documentation. There is a > good camera list there Thanks for mentioning this.. I was meaning to look into such a solution. On 4/16/05, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > Which Creative have traking motor in it? Sorry, I was mistaken. I was thinking of the Logitech QuickCam Orbit: http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products/details/CA/EN,CRID=4,CONTENTID=7172 And thanks for the software list. =) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 14:11:01 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:11:01 +0000 Subject: Webcams that available in market? In-Reply-To: References: <891-SnapperMsgB9FE4EF2BE8631E9@69.158.242.228> Message-ID: <200504161411.01379.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 16, 2005 06:13 am, S P Arif Sahari Wibowo wrote: > On Fri, 15 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: > > Goto www.zoneminder.com and look around in the documentation. > > There is a good camera list there > > I take a look, the list they have is similar to the one in > http://www.linux-usb.org/, mostly outdated. Thanks, though. Go to this page. http://alpha.dyndns.org/ov511/cameras.html BIG list of most cameras, and their various states of functionality. This is a common one, and can be found at many suppliers. D-Link DSB-C310 http://dlink.com/products/?pid=144 you can get it here http://www.bytewizecomputers.com/products/7/32/457/6187 There is a good Canadian hardware retailer search engine here http://www.bbf.ca/ Check and see who has the best prices. I have found on some occasions that it was cheaper to get equipment from businesses on this search engine rather than getting it from the local wholesalers. -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 14:14:11 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:14:11 +0000 Subject: Webcams that available in market? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200504161414.11837.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 16, 2005 02:56 am, Sy wrote: > * to use as an instant messenger camera (is this possible? Is there > an "msn-like" IM which can do this? Soon it will probably be incorporated into our favorite linux MSN clones, as the video codec was just reverse engineered http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/04/05/0240236&tid=215&tid=188&tid=106 .shtml -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 14:44:06 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 17:44:06 +0300 (IDT) Subject: isp price comparison (approximate) Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__23164.0357560993$1113662441$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Hi all, is there a $SUBJ for Canada (esp. Toronto) that you know of ? Iw as unable to find one. Strangely, pricewatch.com - like sites have no info on services. Is there a reason for that ? (like legal hurdles ?) thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 02:58:40 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 22:58:40 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050415225840.28a29f1d.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 10:20:42 -0400 "Gord Jeoffroy" wrote: > Howard! > > But I warn you: Linux isn't for "non-computer types." Heck, even the Sympatico help desk finds it so tricky that they won't support it. It's an amazing OS, but it was built to be powerful and flexible, not user-friendly.. Definitely NOT trying to scare your friend off; just trying to make him aware. Gord, He is learning that. I don't think he minds hacking with stuff. He won't be cleaning spyware and viruses off it anytime soon. I am not familiar with DSL, but I am aware of how easy it is now, to set up a telephone modem. I am guessing that the DSL setup is easy too. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 03:25:28 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:25:28 -0400 Subject: High Speed Internet and Modems and stuff In-Reply-To: <200504131456.07881.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050413102954.751dd1b7.hgibson@eol.ca> <200504131456.07881.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050415232528.4188f329.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 13 Apr 2005 14:56:07 +0000 Jason Shein wrote: > For those of you who are on Sympatico, the speedstream modems have a firewall > in them that will prevent remote administration, personal FTP server etc. > > But there is a workaround. :) Jason, Remote administration and remote FTP severs are serious computer geek stuff. For a non-computer freak with a home computer, this firewall might be a good thing. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 15:48:20 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:48:20 +0000 Subject: isp price comparison (approximate) In-Reply-To: <6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Message-ID: <200504161548.20985.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 16, 2005 02:44 pm, Peter wrote: > Hi all, > > is there a $SUBJ for Canada (esp. Toronto) that you know of ? Iw as > unable to find one. Strangely, pricewatch.com - like sites have no info > on services. Is there a reason for that ? (like legal hurdles ?) > > thanks, > Peter > http://www.canadianisp.com/cgi-bin/ispsearch.cgi?sp=ON -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 16:03:41 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: New TLUG booth layout... Message-ID: <20050416160341.38512.qmail@web88203.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just to note, the TLUG booth layout for LinuxWorld Canada has been revised and can be seen here: http://www.learn.ca/tlug/index.html No major changes since last time out, just a number of small tweeks... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 16:33:52 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:33:52 -0400 Subject: LinuxWorld Schedule? Message-ID: Hi, I've registered for the conference and recieved an e-mail saying it is April "19 & 20"... here's a quote (probably others have received this too): ---------- The trade show at the Largest IT Event in Canada starts on Tuesday April 19th next week! This is to remind you that your registration has been confirmed and processed for LinuxWorld Canada & NetworkWorld Expo. April 19 & 20. Metro Toronto Convention Centre, North Building - 255 Front Street West If you got your badge in the mail: Go to the registration counter with your badge to pick up your badge holder and showguide If you did not get your badge in the mail: Go to the registration counter with your confirmation and ID to receive your badge Trade show days and Hours Tuesday April 19: 9:45 AM Keynote begins, and 11:00 AM Exhibit Hall opens until 6:00pm Wednesday April 20: 9:45 AM Keynote begins, and 11:00 AM Exhibit Hall opens until 5:00pm ---------- What's up with that? I was planning (and booked off a day from work) to only go Monday... can someone confirm what the true story is?? Thanks! -Steve. -- Mozilla Firefox -rediscover the web- http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 16:41:38 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 12:41:38 -0400 Subject: LinuxWorld Schedule? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050416164138.GA2559@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 12:33:52PM -0400, Steve wrote: > Trade show days and Hours > Tuesday April 19: 9:45 AM Keynote begins, and 11:00 AM Exhibit Hall > opens until 6:00pm > Wednesday April 20: 9:45 AM Keynote begins, and 11:00 AM Exhibit Hall > opens until 5:00pm > What's up with that? I was planning (and booked off a day from work) > to only go Monday... can someone confirm what the true story is?? Yes, that's correct. The whole show is Apr 18/19/20 or Mon/Tue/Wed. Trade show is Tue/Wed, and Monday is for tutorial, I think. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 17:21:29 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:21:29 +0300 (IDT) Subject: isp price comparison (approximate) In-Reply-To: <200504161548.20985.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504161548.20985.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__47663.6256011718$1113671897$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Jason Shein wrote: > On April 16, 2005 02:44 pm, Peter wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> is there a $SUBJ for Canada (esp. Toronto) that you know of ? Iw as >> unable to find one. Strangely, pricewatch.com - like sites have no info >> on services. Is there a reason for that ? (like legal hurdles ?) >> >> thanks, >> Peter >> > > http://www.canadianisp.com/cgi-bin/ispsearch.cgi?sp=ON Wow, great link. Thanks a lot. Why was it so hard to find ? None of the search engines brought it up in the 1st 10 pages (though I remember seeing www.canadianisp.com but not that page). thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 17:41:56 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 13:41:56 -0400 Subject: LinuxWorld Schedule? In-Reply-To: <20050416164138.GA2559-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416164138.GA2559@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/16/05, William Park wrote: > > Yes, that's correct. The whole show is Apr 18/19/20 or Mon/Tue/Wed. > Trade show is Tue/Wed, and Monday is for tutorial, I think. > > -- > William Park , Toronto, Canada > Slackware Linux -- because it works. > Does that mean that vendor booths will NOT be open on Monday? I only wanted to got for all the tradeshow stuff... I thought it was all THREE days... can someone confirm or deny this?? Thanks... -- Mozilla Firefox -rediscover the web- http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 18:09:17 2005 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:09:17 -0400 Subject: isp price comparison (approximate) In-Reply-To: <6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504161548.20985.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Message-ID: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 08:21:29PM +0300, Peter wrote: > > > > >http://www.canadianisp.com/cgi-bin/ispsearch.cgi?sp=ON > > Wow, great link. Thanks a lot. Why was it so hard to find ? None of the > search engines brought it up in the 1st 10 pages (though I remember > seeing www.canadianisp.com but not that page). Don't take every piece of info on that site at face value. parts of it are very outdated. I'd suggest using it as a list of ISPs, then going to the *actual web sites* of the companies to get the real info. Cheers, Vic ....moving to TO and looking for a decent DSL ISP. -- Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 18:14:10 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:14:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: LinuxWorld Schedule? In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050416181410.20508.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Steve wrote: > On 4/16/05, William Park > wrote: > > > > Yes, that's correct. The whole show is Apr > 18/19/20 or Mon/Tue/Wed. > > Trade show is Tue/Wed, and Monday is for tutorial, > I think. > > > > -- > > William Park , Toronto, > Canada > > Slackware Linux -- because it works. > > > > Does that mean that vendor booths will NOT be open > on Monday? I only > wanted to got for all the tradeshow stuff... I > thought it was all > THREE days... can someone confirm or deny this?? > > Thanks... The only people who will be able to get into the vendor area Monday are vendors in order to do booth set-up (and so this will include a few TLUG members as TLUG is being regarded as a "vendor")... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 18:55:07 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 14:55:07 -0400 Subject: LinuxWorld Schedule? In-Reply-To: <20050416181410.20508.qmail-57gzaD/7YRGB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416181410.20508.qmail@web88201.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On 4/16/05, Colin McGregor wrote: > > The only people who will be able to get into the > vendor area Monday are vendors in order to do booth > set-up (and so this will include a few TLUG members as > TLUG is being regarded as a "vendor")... > > Colin McGregor > -- Oh, well that sucks... :-( Good thing I found out before Monday though! I did not notice this in the LinuxWorld brochure. I guess it's Tuesday or Wednesday then! Thanks for the info. -Steve. -- Mozilla Firefox -rediscover the web- http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 19:09:12 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:09:12 -0400 Subject: FAT32 partition permission question Message-ID: Hi, I added the following line to my fstab, which automounts my fat32 partition, however *some* folders are listed as read-only when I browse as a regular user (permission "555"). Most of the other folders and files are read-write ("777"): /dev/hda5 /mnt/fat32 vfat users,rw,umask=0 0 0 Is there something I did wrong with the fstab entry, or is there some idiosyncratic thing with some of my folders in the fat32 partition? Thanks. -Steve. -- Mozilla Firefox -rediscover the web- http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 19:48:49 2005 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 15:48:49 -0400 Subject: FAT32 partition permission question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/16/05, Steve wrote: > Hi, > > I added the following line to my fstab, which automounts my fat32 > partition, however *some* folders are listed as read-only when I > browse as a regular user (permission "555"). Most of the other folders > and files are read-write ("777"): > > /dev/hda5 /mnt/fat32 vfat users,rw,umask=0 0 0 > > Is there something I did wrong with the fstab entry, or is there some > idiosyncratic thing with some of my folders in the fat32 partition? > Heh heh... replying to my own post! I figured it out but it may be of use to others... something pretty simple. In XP I had assigned custom icons to the folder icons. I had to create a new folder and move the stuff into there. Now all is well again. -- Mozilla Firefox -rediscover the web- http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 23:17:47 2005 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (FM (a.k.a. Erebus)) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:17:47 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <20050416180917.GN15833-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> Message-ID: <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> Vic: Extreme internet from Rogers is quite good (if you aren't hung up on having DSL and are willing to consider cable). It is fast and (I can't believe I am saying this since I hate Rogers in so many ways) is quite reliable (as long as you never have to phone the bozos for help (since their contracted out help centre is full of minimum-wage morons). Does this mean your are bringing your cool bike to Toronto too? Frank in Mississauga erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 23:36:28 2005 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 18:36:28 -0500 Subject: Determining linux distribution Message-ID: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Hi, Is there a command that will tell me what distribution is being used? I have a friend who was given a refurbished laptop with some distribution of linux on it. It's a very old machine but it runs this distro without difficulty. I'm very curious what is being used but I'm unable to ask the installer himself as he's unavailable. Regards, Brad Fonseca -- If there is no God, who pops up the next Kleenex? -- Art Hoppe -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 16 23:44:44 2005 From: zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org (dan sinclair) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 19:44:44 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1113695084.19579.18.camel@oberon.perplexity.org> You could try something like cat /etc/*-release Redhat, SuSe and Gentoo at least seem to stick a release file in /etc.... dan On Sat, 2005-04-16 at 18:36 -0500, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hi, > > Is there a command that will tell me what distribution is being used? I have > a friend who was given a refurbished laptop with some distribution of linux > on it. It's a very old machine but it runs this distro without difficulty. > I'm very curious what is being used but I'm unable to ask the installer > himself as he's unavailable. > > Regards, > > Brad Fonseca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 00:37:35 2005 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:37:35 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <20050416231757.31111121331-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 07:17:47PM -0400, FM (a.k.a. Erebus) wrote: > Vic: > > Extreme internet from Rogers is quite good (if you aren't hung up on having > DSL and are willing to consider cable). It is fast and (I can't believe I am > saying this since I hate Rogers in so many ways) is quite reliable (as long > as you never have to phone the bozos for help (since their contracted out > help centre is full of minimum-wage morons). Hey Frank, I'll consider Rogers as an option if I can't get good DSL service due to line quality, distance from CO, etc. I'm not getting cable TV anyway, and from what I understand, there's a large additional cost to the Internet service if you don't already have cable TV. Plus, dealing with Rogers' billing department and their annoying telemarketing brings back nightmares! > Does this mean your are bringing your cool bike to Toronto too? Yeah, of course! The recumbent, swing bike, and the far-too-normal mountain bike are making the trip with me. Out of curiosity...how do you know about me and my bike(s)? :) Were you on the Hacker Bike Ride at last year's OLS? > Frank in Mississauga Cheers, Vic in Ottawa, soon to be Etobicoke, but working in Mississauga too. -- Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 00:45:14 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:45:14 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <20050417003735.GO15833-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04@mail.gmail.com> Hey Vic, Indeed, at Rogers, without TV the Internet bill goes up by $10/month. But I second the motion earlier: the service is outta sight. Cheers, Aaron. On 4/16/05, Vic Gedris wrote: > On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 07:17:47PM -0400, FM (a.k.a. Erebus) wrote: > > Vic: > > > > Extreme internet from Rogers is quite good (if you aren't hung up on having > > DSL and are willing to consider cable). It is fast and (I can't believe I am > > saying this since I hate Rogers in so many ways) is quite reliable (as long > > as you never have to phone the bozos for help (since their contracted out > > help centre is full of minimum-wage morons). > > Hey Frank, > > I'll consider Rogers as an option if I can't get good DSL service due to > line quality, distance from CO, etc. I'm not getting cable TV anyway, > and from what I understand, there's a large additional cost to the > Internet service if you don't already have cable TV. Plus, dealing with > Rogers' billing department and their annoying telemarketing brings back > nightmares! > > > Does this mean your are bringing your cool bike to Toronto too? > > Yeah, of course! The recumbent, swing bike, and the far-too-normal > mountain bike are making the trip with me. > > Out of curiosity...how do you know about me and my bike(s)? :) Were > you on the Hacker Bike Ride at last year's OLS? > > > Frank in Mississauga > > Cheers, > Vic in Ottawa, soon to be Etobicoke, but working in Mississauga too. > > -- > Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try > vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org > http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 00:57:20 2005 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 20:57:20 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050417005720.GP15833@gedris.org> On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 08:45:14PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hey Vic, > Indeed, at Rogers, without TV the Internet bill goes up by $10/month. > But I second the motion earlier: the service is outta sight. Do they have any issues with people running web/ssh/mail/etc. services? Cheers, Vic -- Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 01:03:17 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:03:17 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4261B5D5.7050304@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hey Vic, > Indeed, at Rogers, without TV the Internet bill goes up by $10/month. > But I second the motion earlier: the service is outta sight. I agree. I've been on Rogers for a few years and find the service works very well. I've got the "Extreme" service and according to myspeed.rogers.com I'm getting close to the 5 Mb download speed. Right now it's 4.88 Mb/s though I have seen 4.95 Mb. Upload is 788 Kb/s (800 advertised). The connection has been extremely reliable over the past 5 years. Also, while they use DHCP, the addresses are virtually static, changing only when there's a physical reason forcing the change. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 01:15:58 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:15:58 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <20050417005720.GP15833-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04@mail.gmail.com> <20050417005720.GP15833@gedris.org> Message-ID: <4261B8CE.1020603@rogers.com> Vic Gedris wrote: > On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 08:45:14PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > >>Hey Vic, >>Indeed, at Rogers, without TV the Internet bill goes up by $10/month. >>But I second the motion earlier: the service is outta sight. > > > Do they have any issues with people running web/ssh/mail/etc. services? Officially, servers are banned, but I get the impression that's only enforced if there's a problem. I run ssh and vpn access to my network, but no "servers" available to others. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 01:37:33 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:37:33 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... Message-ID: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Just a few quick updates. I posted a note about updating the pictures of the booth to the TLUG mailing list at 12:03 PM. Since then I have added one more picture, of everything packed up, which you can see here: http://www.learn.ca/tlug/index.html The tables and backdrop for the show all fits into two LARGE cases with wheels on the bottom. The 2 machines for the booth are: - Pentium II 400 machines - 192 MB RAM - 4 or 6 GB Hard disks - Knoppix 3.8 installed on the hard drive Besides the trade show kit and the PCs I have collected: - 2 x office chairs - 2 x 17" NEC monitors - 2 x mice - 2 x keyboards - 4 x power cords - 1 x power bar - 1 dolly big enough to carry the above - packet of flyers from Innovation Toronto asking for technology donations Note that everything is now on wheels and on the lower level of G.T.C.C. so while some of this stuff may be a pain in the @#$% to lift in/out of Bill Thanis's van once it is out of the van anyone of the people getting this e-mail should be able to move it around fairly easily. While I am not sure of the situation at the convention centre, at least at G.T.C.C. we can just (literally) roll everything out the door and put it right beside Bill's van. Game plan currently is for Seneca Cunningham, William Park, Bill Thanis and myself to meet at Bill's home at 10:30 Monday morning, get into Bill's van, drive to G.T.C.C., collect the stuff, and before noon be setting up the booth... This MAY be subject to change, but that is the current plan... Some of the tasks that still to be done: - TLUG promotional flyers need to be printed. - Flyers listing our donors need to be printed - CDs prepared with old presentations need to be prepared for installation onto machines. - Videos need to be put onto CDs for install onto the machines. - Install the old presentations and videos on the machines Colin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 01:53:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:53:11 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... In-Reply-To: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050417015311.GA2620@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 09:37:33PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > - 2 x office chairs > - 2 x 17" NEC monitors > - 2 x mice > - 2 x keyboards > - 4 x power cords > - 1 x power bar > - 1 dolly big enough to carry the above > - packet of flyers from Innovation Toronto asking for technology donations We need more chairs. I'll bring 4 patio chairs (green plastics). > Some of the tasks that still to be done: > > - TLUG promotional flyers need to be printed. > - Flyers listing our donors need to be printed > - CDs prepared with old presentations need to be prepared for installation > onto machines. > - Videos need to be put onto CDs for install onto the machines. > - Install the old presentations and videos on the machines What is the status of the most important things, ie. Ubuntu CDs? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 02:33:18 2005 From: lists-jiQtrEI3vUxWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (S P Arif Sahari Wibowo) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 22:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Indeed, at Rogers, without TV the Internet bill goes up by > $10/month. Not always. When I got the Rogers connection in the end of January at our new place, the agent said that we can got Rogers waive the additional fee for one year. I remember saw it in the website somewhere but I cannot find it anymore. Still, if you researching Rogers as one alternative, make sure ask about the waiver. If you don't know this already, when you try get internet connection from major provider like Bell and Rogers, try to get a quote from an agent first. Often an agent can give you better sign up deal than published by companies. BTW, when I moved here, I did sign up for DSL from Bell, but apparently there was something wrong with the connection to my place (Sympatico agreed), and after a week Bell cannot fix the line, and the need of Internet connection become urgent, I was forced to sign up with Rogers. -- Stephan Paul Arif Sahari Wibowo _____ _____ _____ _____ /____ /____/ /____/ /____ _____/ / / / _____/ http://www.arifsaha.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 03:29:34 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2005 23:29:34 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... In-Reply-To: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> Colin McGregor wrote: >The 2 machines for the booth are: > >- Pentium II 400 machines >- 192 MB RAM >- 4 or 6 GB Hard disks >- Knoppix 3.8 installed on the hard drive > > Just wondering, Colin, if it might be nice to have two different distros on display ? Perhaps one sporting gnome ? like ubuntu Hoary ? > >Some of the tasks that still to be done: > >- TLUG promotional flyers need to be printed. >- Flyers listing our donors need to be printed >- CDs prepared with old presentations need to be prepared for installation >onto machines. >- Videos need to be put onto CDs for install onto the machines. > > I know it's too late in the game to mess with presentation videos for the upcoming show, but I'm curious to know who (if anybody) wrangles this sort of thing. As a filmmaker, I know that what makes this sort of thing watchable is editing ! (with a bit of graphics packaging) Maybe, down the road, we can establish a workflow to process presentations into a high quality video package. It might even be a good excuse to get familiar with some of the open source post-production tools, and dvd authoring software. my $0.02, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Steven.Nagy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 04:39:32 2005 From: Steven.Nagy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steven Nagy) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 00:39:32 -0400 Subject: How to set up wireless on Linux Message-ID: <20050417043942.19BF8121331@acheron.ss.org> Hi, I have a problem configuring my wireless under Suse Linux Pro 9.1 on my laptop. I tried to search for drivers on the internet and I didn't find anything for Linux. I found that usually companies don't provide drivers for Linux. I also searched www.driverguide.com without any success. My laptop is Compaq Presario R3000 with a wireless card of "Broadcom 54g MaxPerformance 802.11g" I don't know either if I would find the good driver, how should I install it under Linux. Thank you for help, Steven Nagy -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 04:58:58 2005 From: mr.mcgregor-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 00:58:58 -0400 Subject: how to set up wireless Message-ID: <1113713938.11621.2.camel@localhost> I personally am not familiar with the Broadcom card but this is the best resource for Linux wireless information: http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Jean_Tourrilhes/Linux/ John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 05:33:39 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:33:39 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... In-Reply-To: <4261D81E.6060202-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> > I know it's too late in the game to mess with presentation videos for > the upcoming show, but I'm curious to know who (if anybody) wrangles > this sort of thing. As a filmmaker, I know that what makes this sort of > thing watchable is editing ! (with a bit of graphics packaging) Maybe, > down the road, we can establish a workflow to process presentations into > a high quality video package. It might even be a good excuse to get > familiar with some of the open source post-production tools, and dvd > authoring software. my $0.02, > djp Taking this a little further off topic... (I'm stuck with gmail at the moment and can't adjust the subject line) I'm not terribly into video production, but this appears to be a good spot to drop something I've been thinking of since the introduction of linuxcaffe. (And something I desperately wanted to do for the original Avalon Project launch) Again, not really /directly/ related to the expo, but maybe something to consider anyway... Webcasts and/or recordings of TLUG meets for distribution over the internet might be a really good idea. To be completely honest, there are lots and lots of folks who don't know anything about linux, open source, floss, or related subjects - but are hearing more and more of these terms being used in plenty of places - including newspapers (most recently+locally, the T.O. Star) and such. With the possibility of more federal elections coming soon, and given the "floss jolt" that the political parties were subjected too during the 2004 elections*... There might be a fair number of potential members that (quite possibly) also don't come to (L)UG meetings simply because they do not know what to expect. Video might be a great way to "ease" these folks into it? -- - SGE * Due to a pair of serious recent h/w failures I do not have the original files, but Google has some remnants of my involvement; search: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22Does+your+government+FLOSS%22&btnG=Search&meta= For what it's worth, I'll be working on an "upgrade" to the original for the next election. :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 05:46:34 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 01:46:34 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... In-Reply-To: <4261D81E.6060202-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0504162246c845bbe@mail.gmail.com> (Part 2) > I know it's too late in the game to mess with presentation videos for > the upcoming show, but I'm curious to know who (if anybody) wrangles > this sort of thing. As a filmmaker, I know that what makes this sort of > thing watchable is editing ! (with a bit of graphics packaging) Maybe, > down the road, we can establish a workflow to process presentations into > a high quality video package. It might even be a good excuse to get > familiar with some of the open source post-production tools, and dvd > authoring software. my $0.02, > djp Please don't quote me on this (lol) but I might have some LinuxFormat tutorials at work that might be of some help for video editing/production... I'll see what I can dig up tomorrow and post whatever info I can. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 12:00:34 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 08:00:34 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050417015311.GA2620@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <006c01c54345$1015dd80$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "William Park" on Saturday, April 16, 2005 9:53 PM wrote > On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 09:37:33PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > - 2 x office chairs > > - 2 x 17" NEC monitors > > - 2 x mice > > - 2 x keyboards > > - 4 x power cords > > - 1 x power bar > > - 1 dolly big enough to carry the above > > - packet of flyers from Innovation Toronto asking for technology donations > > We need more chairs. I'll bring 4 patio chairs (green plastics). We may LIKE some more chairs, BUT we only have 100 sq. feet to play with (a 10 foot x 10 foot booth), and by the time the two tables, the backdrop (with it's two PCs/ monitors, etc., etc.) are put in, there just is not enough space for 6 chairs. Have another look at the booth layout at: http://www.learn.ca/tlug/index.html I put down bits of masking tape to mark off a 10' x 10' square... My take on this is that we want to encourage people to come into the booth and talk to the volunteers there, and to encourage people to come into the booth we want free space, not a wall of tables and/or chairs. So, we want a fair bit of empty space... I am open to suggestions, but I think 2 chairs is about all we have room for and still have space to encourage people to come in and talk to us. > > Some of the tasks that still to be done: > > > > - TLUG promotional flyers need to be printed. > > - Flyers listing our donors need to be printed > > - CDs prepared with old presentations need to be prepared for installation > > onto machines. > > - Videos need to be put onto CDs for install onto the machines. > > - Install the old presentations and videos on the machines > > What is the status of the most important things, ie. Ubuntu CDs? I am keeping my fingers crossed that Monday or Tuesday I will get those CDs. Word from Leah Cunningham is that she thinks she will be able to get some goodies from Novell to give away. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 13:41:06 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 09:41:06 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <20050417005720.GP15833-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> <4386c5b2050416174525ea2a04@mail.gmail.com> <20050417005720.GP15833@gedris.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b2050417064165357355@mail.gmail.com> No issues with servers. Officially you shouldn't run one, but I was running Web, FTP, email and SSH without issue. I did have a friend running a Hotline server that took a lot of bandwidth and he received a nastygram (he subsequently shut down the server). Other than that, for low-volume stuff you'll never hear from them. Cheers, Aaron. P.S. I"m on Extreme too, and I just clocked at 4.8 Mbps. Sweet. On 4/16/05, Vic Gedris wrote: > On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 08:45:14PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Hey Vic, > > Indeed, at Rogers, without TV the Internet bill goes up by $10/month. > > But I second the motion earlier: the service is outta sight. > > Do they have any issues with people running web/ssh/mail/etc. services? > > Cheers, > Vic > > -- > Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try > vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org > http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 16:00:09 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 12:00:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <1113695084.19579.18.camel-7I4DTzuBVjD78a/l6+3MQLFspR4gePGN@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1113695084.19579.18.camel@oberon.perplexity.org> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, dan sinclair wrote: > You could try something like > cat /etc/*-release > Redhat, SuSe and Gentoo at least seem to stick a release file > in /etc.... You might also want to try /etc/*-version. Slackware has an /etc/slackware-version file; this might work for some other distro too. I know Debian has a /etc/debian- file. My 2 cents, with no GST! JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 17:49:29 2005 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:49:29 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1113695084.19579.18.camel@oberon.perplexity.org> Message-ID: <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> John Vetterli wrote: > On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, dan sinclair wrote: > >> You could try something like >> cat /etc/*-release >> Redhat, SuSe and Gentoo at least seem to stick a release file >> in /etc.... > > > You might also want to try /etc/*-version. Slackware has an > /etc/slackware-version file; this might work for some other distro too. > > I know Debian has a /etc/debian- file. Wouldn't 'uname -a' return the desired info ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 18:02:39 2005 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:02:39 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <4262A1A9.90001-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1113695084.19579.18.camel@oberon.perplexity.org> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2005-04-17 at 13:49 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote: > Wouldn't 'uname -a' return the desired info ? Barely. [austin at localhost ~]$ uname -a Linux localhost 2.6.10-3.mm.17mdk #1 Sun Apr 3 22:37:03 CEST 2005 i686 AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+ unknown GNU/Linux The suffix "mdk" on the kernel version indicates Mandrakelinux, but that's a bit cryptic. Most distros have a version tag in /etc. [austin at localhost ~]$ cat /etc/mandrake-release Mandrakelinux release 10.2 (Cooker) for i586 A bit more verbose I'd say... Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 17:57:36 2005 From: zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org (dan sinclair) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 13:57:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Determining linux distribution Message-ID: <6495328051079196739MALZAKJLCP.dsinclair@trekspace.com> dsinclair at lain [~] -> uname -a Linux lain 2.6.6 #1 SMP Tue May 18 17:42:45 EDT 2004 i686 Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux nope dan > John Vetterli wrote: > > On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, dan sinclair wrote: > > > >> You could try something like > >> cat /etc/*-release > >> Redhat, SuSe and Gentoo at least seem to stick a release file > >> in /etc.... > > > > > > You might also want to try /etc/*-version. Slackware has an > > /etc/slackware-version file; this might work for some other distro too. > > > > I know Debian has a /etc/debian- file. > > Wouldn't 'uname -a' return the desired info ? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 18:01:09 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:01:09 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <4262A1A9.90001-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1113695084.19579.18.camel@oberon.perplexity.org> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <4262A465.4050207@rogers.com> Stephen Allen wrote: > John Vetterli wrote: > >> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, dan sinclair wrote: >> >>> You could try something like >>> cat /etc/*-release >>> Redhat, SuSe and Gentoo at least seem to stick a release file >>> in /etc.... >> >> >> >> You might also want to try /etc/*-version. Slackware has an >> /etc/slackware-version file; this might work for some other distro too. >> >> I know Debian has a /etc/debian- file. > > > Wouldn't 'uname -a' return the desired info ? No. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 18:23:25 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 18:23:25 +0000 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200504171823.25781.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 17, 2005 06:02 pm, Austin wrote: > On Sun, 2005-04-17 at 13:49 -0400, Stephen Allen wrote: > > Wouldn't 'uname -a' return the desired info ? > > Barely. > > [austin at localhost ~]$ uname -a > Linux localhost 2.6.10-3.mm.17mdk #1 Sun Apr 3 22:37:03 CEST 2005 i686 > AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2500+ unknown GNU/Linux > > The suffix "mdk" on the kernel version indicates Mandrakelinux, but > that's a bit cryptic. Most distros have a version tag in /etc. > > [austin at localhost ~]$ cat /etc/mandrake-release > Mandrakelinux release 10.2 (Cooker) for i586 > > A bit more verbose I'd say... > > Austin > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml This will work cat /etc/*-release -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 20:54:06 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 16:54:06 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1113695084.19579.18.camel@oberon.perplexity.org> Message-ID: On 4/17/05, John Vetterli wrote: > On Sat, 16 Apr 2005, dan sinclair wrote: > > You could try something like > > cat /etc/*-release > > Redhat, SuSe and Gentoo at least seem to stick a release file > > in /etc.... > > You might also want to try /etc/*-version. Slackware has an > /etc/slackware-version file; this might work for some other distro too. > > I know Debian has a /etc/debian- file. Either /etc/*release* or /etc/*version* is likely to find the answer to this question. Unfortunately, I'm not certain that it is a useful question to be asking in the first place. There is considerable variation between different versions of any given distribution, and knowing that some system *started* as Red Hat or Debian or such doesn't imply that everything is as it was installed. We've got a Debian box at the office, for instance, that is running a really ancient version and where it's using a custom-compiled version of Exim, and is of sufficiently unstable provenance that I wouldn't want to pretend to run anything heavily automated against it... Perhaps the O.P. should indicate what the _real_ purpose behind the question is. I would expect that the _right_ answer to some attempt at portability is to do things rather like "configure" and look around to see where the needful components might be. Don't assume that since it's Debian, you'll find Exim config in the canonical spot, particularly since I might have replaced that with Postfix... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 21:50:55 2005 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 17:50:55 -0400 Subject: PegaSoft - Thursday - SDL Library In-Reply-To: <1113592122.20819.20.camel-/BKvNsQo1N5uDg+pOUj4hwLNbHufi5vF@public.gmane.org> References: <1113592122.20819.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <200504171750.55333.marc@lijour.net> On April 15, 2005 15:08, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Thursday, April 21, 2005 at 7:00 pm > at Orwell's Pub. Ken Burtch will be talking about the SDL gaming > library. > > Please contact to Mel Wilson if you are going to attend. Interesting. How do I contact this Mel Wilson? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 17 23:38:36 2005 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:38:36 -0400 Subject: Meeting videos In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050417233836.GK76954@shell.vex.net> On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 01:33:39AM -0400, psema4 wrote: > > I know it's too late in the game to mess with presentation videos for > > the upcoming show, but I'm curious to know who (if anybody) wrangles > > this sort of thing. As a filmmaker, I know that what makes this sort of > > thing watchable is editing ! (with a bit of graphics packaging) Maybe, > > down the road, we can establish a workflow to process presentations into > > a high quality video package. It might even be a good excuse to get > > familiar with some of the open source post-production tools, and dvd > > authoring software. my $0.02, > > djp > > Taking this a little further off topic... (I'm stuck with gmail at > the moment and can't adjust the subject line) > > I'm not terribly into video production, but this appears to be a good > spot to drop something I've been thinking of since the introduction of > linuxcaffe. (And something I desperately wanted to do for the > original Avalon Project launch) > > Again, not really /directly/ related to the expo, but maybe something > to consider anyway... > > Webcasts and/or recordings of TLUG meets for distribution over the > internet might be a really good idea. > > To be completely honest, there are lots and lots of folks who don't > know anything about linux, open source, floss, or related subjects - > but are hearing more and more of these terms being used in plenty of > places - including newspapers (most recently+locally, the T.O. Star) > and such. > > With the possibility of more federal elections coming soon, and given > the "floss jolt" that the political parties were subjected too during > the 2004 elections*... > > There might be a fair number of potential members that (quite > possibly) also don't come to (L)UG meetings simply because they do not > know what to expect. > > Video might be a great way to "ease" these folks into it? It might also help for the (albeit small) number of us with other commitments during evening hours. > > -- > - SGE > > > * Due to a pair of serious recent h/w failures I do not have the > original files, but Google has some remnants of my involvement; > search: http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&q=%22Does+your+government+FLOSS%22&btnG=Search&meta= > > For what it's worth, I'll be working on an "upgrade" to the original > for the next election. :-) > -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 00:26:57 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 20:26:57 -0400 Subject: (Final) Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050416005006.GA5904-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414034445.GA1874@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414040254.GA2023@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050415150959.GA2142@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050416005006.GA5904@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050418002657.GA2356@node1.opengeometry.net> Apr 19 Apr 20 (11-3)(2-6) (11-3)(2-6) William Park (any) xxx xxx Leah Cunningham (1) xxx Bogdan Bejan (any) xxx xxx Allen Taylor (2 max) xxx xxx Jeffrey Pikul (any) xxx xxx Seneca Cunningham (any) xxx xxx Gordon Chillcott xxx Ulf Kellermann (any) xxx xxx Jay Shu (any) xxx xxx -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 02:05:56 2005 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:05:56 -0400 Subject: now the eth1 don't work... In-Reply-To: <20050415124516.GW23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050415023743.GA24954@utoronto.ca> <20050415124516.GW23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050418020556.GA8912@utoronto.ca> On Fri, Apr 15, 2005 at 08:45:16AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 14, 2005 at 10:37:43PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > I imagine putting in a PCI video card should actually work. Normally > adding an add in video card would disable the onboard automatically on > machiens of that era. The onboard video is an ATI Rage Pro AGP, and it > probably is setup to use PCI over AGP if given multiple video cards > (most were at the time) so that you can replace the onboard with an add > in if you wanted to). > > If you care, the GX1 is an intel 440BX, running usually a Pentium 2 or 3 > at some range of speeds around 450MHz and such (at least the one we have > here is a P3 450). It allows RAM up to 256MB per slot (double sided > dimms _only_) or 128M (can be single sided) of PC100 or 133 ram. > Onboard ethernet is 3c905 based. This one is a 3c905B. Lennart and everyone, thanks for the suggestion, threw in a video card, everything's good now. Except: I also added a new ethernet card -- am trying to turn this into a dns server, I talked about this in a post a while ago -- anyway, I the card isn't recognized by the kernel. On boot I get this: Limiting direct PCI/PCI transfers. isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards... isapnp: Card 'Plug & Play Ethernet Card' <-- my card isapnp: Card 'CS4236B' isapnp: 2 Plug & Play cards detected total but no modules are loaded and there's on further mention of this card or the eth1 interface. In /etc/network/interfaces I have this line: iface eth1 inet dhcp and when I try to bring it up with ifup eth1, ifup fails with this message: sit0: unknown hardware address type 776 SIOCSIFADDR: No such device eth1: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device eth1: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device sit0: unknown hardware address type 776 Bind socket to interface: No such device Failed to bring up eth1. I'm not sure what sit0 is, but it seems clear to me that eth1 is not found. anyone know what's going on? I don't know the make of this card, only that it worked fine in someone else's old redhat box before he gave it to me. This new machine runs ubuntu hoary. anyway, thanks as always. matt > > Lennart Sorensen ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot: zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 02:58:42 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 22:58:42 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/17/05, psema4 wrote: > Webcasts and/or recordings of TLUG meets for distribution over the > internet might be a really good idea. I think it's as bad an idea as video phones which, I should point out, has not turned out to be viable, not for technical reasons, but for the non-technical reason that we're not always photogenic enough. Written presentations? Sure. Video? I'd frankly rather not, particularly as some of the more interesting bits of TLUG meetings have involved them being a bit raucous... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 06:07:27 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 23:07:27 -0700 Subject: PegaSoft - Thursday - SDL Library In-Reply-To: <200504171750.55333.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <1113592122.20819.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> <200504171750.55333.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <1113804447.1543.1.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> On Sun, 2005-04-17 at 14:50, Marc Lijour wrote: > On April 15, 2005 15:08, Ken O. Burtch wrote: > > The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Thursday, April 21, 2005 at 7:00 pm > > at Orwell's Pub. Ken Burtch will be talking about the SDL gaming > > library. > > > > Please contact to Mel Wilson if you are going to attend. > > Interesting. How do I contact this Mel Wilson? His email address is on the PegaSoft web site. Hence I included " For more information, visit the PegaSoft web site at http://www.pegasoft.ca." I'll send Mel's email directly for your convenience. KB > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 06:51:12 2005 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 02:51:12 -0400 Subject: TLUG meeting slides for display at LinuxWorld Canada Message-ID: <20050418065112.GA6052@sophocles> Just a quick note: If you've made a presentation with slides for TLUG and you want those slides to be on display, please send me a pointer (or a copy of the preferred form) if you haven't already. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 12:42:45 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:42:45 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... In-Reply-To: References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050418054273f6866a@mail.gmail.com> > > Webcasts and/or recordings of TLUG meets for distribution over the > > internet might be a really good idea. > > I think it's as bad an idea as video phones which, I should point out, > has not turned out to be viable, not for technical reasons, but for > the non-technical reason that we're not always photogenic enough. > > Written presentations? Sure. Video? I'd frankly rather not, > particularly as some of the more interesting bits of TLUG meetings > have involved them being a bit raucous... Well, I suppose there is that... :( Would there be any value in announcing the presence of camera's prior to any meetings (should they be used)? That way, if anyone's worried about being "photogenic" then they could watch the video instead of participating. I'll admit it's not the best solution, but I do believe there are some benefits to be had - not the least of which would be to increase TLUG's presence in the "public eye." (And being able to see & hear the content presented at missed meetings as Steve Harvey has already pointed out.) I'm still flipping through a bunch of old mags looking for additional information, but LinuxFormat ran, at 9 pages, a relatively large article (LXF52, Apr 2004) specifically on the topic of making and editing movies with Linux. If there's any interest in doing this, I'll take the idea of "donating bandwidth" to the other folks driving the AVP project. (It would be limited to recorded sessions rather than live webcasts, but at least the recordings could be edited and polished.) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 12:45:47 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:45:47 -0400 Subject: More TLUG at LinuxWorld Canada updates... In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f050418054273f6866a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> <99a6c38f050418054273f6866a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f050418054517b28d8f@mail.gmail.com> > I'll admit it's not the best solution, but I do believe there are some > benefits to be had - not the least of which would be to increase > TLUG's presence in the "public eye." (And being able to see & hear > the content presented at missed meetings as Steve Harvey has already > pointed out.) Another thought dropped into my head on this... If meetings were recorded, edited and polished, it's not a far stretch to consider providing some small video adverts. Might even generate a little revenue for other TLUG projects... I dunno - just throwing thoughts out. :) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 12:51:05 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 08:51:05 -0400 Subject: Meeting videos In-Reply-To: <20050417233836.GK76954-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> <20050417233836.GK76954@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: On 4/17/05, Steve Harvey wrote: > On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 01:33:39AM -0400, psema4 wrote: > > > > Webcasts and/or recordings of TLUG meets for distribution over the > > internet might be a really good idea. > > > > To be completely honest, there are lots and lots of folks who don't > > know anything about linux, open source, floss, or related subjects - > > but are hearing more and more of these terms being used in plenty of > > places - including newspapers (most recently+locally, the T.O. Star) > > and such. > > > > With the possibility of more federal elections coming soon, and given > > the "floss jolt" that the political parties were subjected too during > > the 2004 elections*... > > > > There might be a fair number of potential members that (quite > > possibly) also don't come to (L)UG meetings simply because they do not > > know what to expect. > > > > Video might be a great way to "ease" these folks into it? > > It might also help for the (albeit small) number of us with other > commitments during evening hours. > If we had an aspiring filmmaker, it would be interesting to have a "behind the scenes" underground film done sortof to the tune of a behind the scenes rock star biography. Lots of candid interviews, following people on their way to a meeting, bar conversation snippets.. lots of filming in grainy black and white.. =) Btw, gmail now allows us to edit the subject. Yay! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 13:44:29 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:44:29 -0400 Subject: Vic moving to Toronto? In-Reply-To: <20050417003735.GO15833-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <20050416180917.GN15833@gedris.org> <20050416231757.31111121331@acheron.ss.org> <20050417003735.GO15833@gedris.org> Message-ID: <20050418134429.GY23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 08:37:35PM -0400, Vic Gedris wrote: > I'll consider Rogers as an option if I can't get good DSL service due to > line quality, distance from CO, etc. I'm not getting cable TV anyway, > and from what I understand, there's a large additional cost to the > Internet service if you don't already have cable TV. Plus, dealing with > Rogers' billing department and their annoying telemarketing brings back > nightmares! Yeah rogers does charge an extra $10/month if you don't have cable tv as well making the total $55/month (plus the government's cut of course) and you can't run servers (at least no according to the user agreement) If Bell hadn't been out of slots for line cards at the CO, I would still be on Istop at my new place. But for now I seem to only have rogers as a choice for any decent speed internet access. That's life for you sometimes. > Yeah, of course! The recumbent, swing bike, and the far-too-normal > mountain bike are making the trip with me. > > Out of curiosity...how do you know about me and my bike(s)? :) Were > you on the Hacker Bike Ride at last year's OLS? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 13:50:56 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:50:56 -0400 Subject: FAT32 partition permission question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050418135056.GZ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 16, 2005 at 03:09:12PM -0400, Steve wrote: > I added the following line to my fstab, which automounts my fat32 > partition, however *some* folders are listed as read-only when I > browse as a regular user (permission "555"). Most of the other folders > and files are read-write ("777"): > > /dev/hda5 /mnt/fat32 vfat users,rw,umask=0 0 0 > > Is there something I did wrong with the fstab entry, or is there some > idiosyncratic thing with some of my folders in the fat32 partition? Maybe files that are readonly on dos default to readonly on linux nomatter what the umask is. I personally much prefer fmask/dmask over umask since that way you can keep the execute bit on dirs but off the files. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 13:56:47 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:56:47 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <200504171823.25781.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> <200504171823.25781.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050418135647.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 06:23:25PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > This will work > > cat /etc/*-release ...on some subset of distributions. ls /etc/*release /etc/*version could be better, and if you cat any file found, you would have an idea of the version number (but only any idea as it may be wrong. Debian unstable will still say 3.1 even though it isn't 3.1). cat /etc/issue may help too on some distributions. But there certainly isn't a universal solution. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 13:58:43 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:58:43 -0400 Subject: How to set up wireless on Linux In-Reply-To: <20050417043942.19BF8121331-mb4phVZFrfSXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050417043942.19BF8121331@acheron.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050418135843.GB23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 12:39:32AM -0400, Steven Nagy wrote: > I have a problem configuring my wireless under Suse Linux Pro 9.1 on my > laptop. I tried to search for drivers on the internet and I didn't find > anything for Linux. I found that usually companies don't provide drivers for > Linux. I also searched www.driverguide.com > without any success. > > My laptop is Compaq Presario R3000 with a wireless card of "Broadcom 54g > MaxPerformance 802.11g" > > I don't know either if I would find the good driver, how should I install it > under Linux. For that one you need to use ndiswrapper and the broadcom driver from windows. Broadcom sucks that way (as do many other wireless chip vendors). Fortunately you can even run the 64bit windows driver for that chipset too in the same way. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 14:03:06 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:03:06 -0400 Subject: now the eth1 don't work... In-Reply-To: <20050418020556.GA8912-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050415023743.GA24954@utoronto.ca> <20050415124516.GW23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050418020556.GA8912@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050418140306.GC23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 10:05:56PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > Lennart and everyone, thanks for the suggestion, threw in a video > card, everything's good now. Except: I also added a new ethernet > card -- am trying to turn this into a dns server, I talked about this > in a post a while ago -- anyway, I the card isn't recognized by the > kernel. On boot I get this: > > Limiting direct PCI/PCI transfers. > isapnp: Scanning for PnP cards... > isapnp: Card 'Plug & Play Ethernet Card' <-- my card > isapnp: Card 'CS4236B' > isapnp: 2 Plug & Play cards detected total That has to be one of the WORST isa cards I have ever seen for networking. Usually the isapnp info at least tries to identify the vendor/model so you have some clue what it is. Some engineer sure was an idoit the day that car was made by the looks of it, unless they barried it further down the isapnp info. Do yourself a favour, and plug in a pci card instead given there are two pci slots in that machine. isapnp just says it found hardware, just like lspci shows what pci hardware you have. It says nothing about drivers being loaded or even if there is a driver for the hardware. > but no modules are loaded and there's on further mention of this card > or the eth1 interface. In /etc/network/interfaces I have this line: > > iface eth1 inet dhcp > > and when I try to bring it up with ifup eth1, ifup fails with this > message: > > > sit0: unknown hardware address type 776 > SIOCSIFADDR: No such device > eth1: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device > eth1: ERROR while getting interface flags: No such device > sit0: unknown hardware address type 776 > Bind socket to interface: No such device > Failed to bring up eth1. > > I'm not sure what sit0 is, but it seems clear to me that eth1 is not > found. anyone know what's going on? I don't know the make of this > card, only that it worked fine in someone else's old redhat box before he > gave it to me. This new machine runs ubuntu hoary. sit0 is IPv6 related tunneling protocol. If you aren't ding IPv6 just ignore it. You have to find out what driver to load for your network card since right now it isn't loaded. When you find out the driver name, you can add it to /etc/modules after the driver for the onboard ethernet (to control the load order). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 14:06:55 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:06:55 -0400 Subject: Meeting videos In-Reply-To: References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> <20050417233836.GK76954@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <4263BEFF.50604@sympatico.ca> Sy wrote: >If we had an aspiring filmmaker, it would be interesting to have a >"behind the scenes" underground film done sortof to the tune of a >behind the scenes rock star biography. > It might indeed be interesting. It might also have a development timeline of 1 year+ and consume many thousands of dollar$ and hundreds of hours of work. If we're not careful, at the end of the process it's quite possible to end up with something that makes people shrug. > Lots of candid interviews, >following people on their way to a meeting, bar conversation >snippets.. lots of filming in grainy black and white.. =) > > Don't get me wrong, Sy, it could make a worthy documentary, but it's easy to underestimate the relentless hard work and heaps of dough it takes to make a /good/ documentary. (and that's the only kind I'd want to be involved in) Packaging (or even producing) fun video clips of guest speakers is another thing altogether. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 14:31:42 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:31:42 -0400 Subject: Meeting videos In-Reply-To: <4263BEFF.50604-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> <20050417233836.GK76954@shell.vex.net> <4263BEFF.50604@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 4/18/05, David J Patrick wrote: > Don't get me wrong, Sy, it could make a worthy documentary, but it's > easy to underestimate the relentless hard work and heaps of dough it > takes to make a /good/ documentary. (and that's the only kind I'd want > to be involved in) > Packaging (or even producing) fun video clips of guest speakers is > another thing altogether. You make some good points. I guess it would only work out if there were someone really enthusiastic who had the equipment and time and expertise to do things.. but yes, even then it might not be a spectacle worth the effort. =/ The only other alternative is to have a straightforward only vaguely-edited lecture-style video which focused on the presenter/speaker. This way we could skip most of the concerns about the general shyness of members in the audience. Of course, the speaker would need to repeat some of the questions, as one of my issues with such a thing is that the filming doesn't usually pick up on the audience's questions of discussion. We could serve such a thing out via bittorrent and not worry *too* much about bandwidth.. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 14:42:42 2005 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:42:42 -0400 Subject: now the eth1 don't work... In-Reply-To: <20050418140306.GC23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050415023743.GA24954@utoronto.ca> <20050415124516.GW23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20050418020556.GA8912@utoronto.ca> <20050418140306.GC23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050418144242.GB7825@utoronto.ca> On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 10:03:06AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 10:05:56PM -0400, Matt Price wrote: > > That has to be one of the WORST isa cards I have ever seen for > networking. Usually the isapnp info at least tries to identify the > vendor/model so you have some clue what it is. Some engineer sure was > an idoit the day that car was made by the looks of it, unless they > barried it further down the isapnp info. seconded > > You have to find out what driver to load for your network card since > right now it isn't loaded. When you find out the driver name, you can > add it to /etc/modules after the driver for the onboard ethernet (to > control the load order). > found it! The card is a cheap clone of a Realtek 8019 which itself is a clone of the NE2000; I put "ne" in /etc/modules and now itl oads automatically. works fine for now. thx, m > Lennart Sorensen ------------------------------------------- Matt Price matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org History Department, University of Toronto (416) 978-2094 -------------------------------------------- The following addresses are for you if you're an evil spambot: zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 14:56:15 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:56:15 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <20050418135647.GA23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> <200504171823.25781.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050418135647.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4263CA8F.3080206@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > ls /etc/*release /etc/*version could be better, and if you cat any file > >found, you would have an idea of the version number (but only any idea >as it may be wrong. Debian unstable will still say 3.1 even though it >isn't 3.1). > >cat /etc/issue may help too on some distributions. > >But there certainly isn't a universal solution. > > I had the same question trying to urpmi a friends old Mandrake box, but was unsure what version he was at. Is there a LSB mechanism that is not being implemented ? Surely access to the accurate distro and version info is vital and a common requirement ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 15:17:41 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:17:41 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <4263CA8F.3080206-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> <200504171823.25781.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050418135647.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4263CA8F.3080206@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050418151741.GD23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 10:56:15AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I had the same question trying to urpmi a friends old Mandrake box, but > was unsure what version he was at. > > Is there a LSB mechanism that is not being implemented ? > Surely access to the accurate distro and version info is vital and a > common requirement ? If your system is LSB compliant, the application doesn't have to care as long as it only uses LSB features. That's the whole point of LSB isn't it? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 15:19:06 2005 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:19:06 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out Message-ID: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> Hey folks, If there's any Libranet-users out there, v3.0 has finally been released. Downloads are available now and apparently CD's will be shipping May 31st. Link: http://www.libranet.com Cheers, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 15:29:11 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:29:11 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <20050418151741.GD23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> <200504171823.25781.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050418135647.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4263CA8F.3080206@sympatico.ca> <20050418151741.GD23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4263D247.1000404@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >If your system is LSB compliant, the application doesn't have to care as >long as it only uses LSB features. That's the whole point of LSB isn't >it? > > OK, so it's LSB compliant, now where's the flag ? (or am I missing your point ?) djp > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 15:36:16 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:36:16 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <989904033.20050418111906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> Matt Cahill wrote: > > Hey folks, > > If there's any Libranet-users out there, v3.0 has finally been > released. Downloads are available now and apparently CD's will be > shipping May 31st. > > Link: http://www.libranet.com > > Cheers, > > Matt > > > Yep. Debating with the CD or DVD download. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 15:46:25 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:46:25 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <4263D247.1000404-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <4262A1A9.90001@yahoo.ca> <1113760959.9986.1.camel@localhost> <200504171823.25781.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050418135647.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4263CA8F.3080206@sympatico.ca> <20050418151741.GD23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4263D247.1000404@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20050418154625.GE23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 18, 2005 at 11:29:11AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > OK, so it's LSB compliant, now where's the flag ? (or am I missing your > point ?) I don't know if ther eis a way to check if a system is LSB compliant. I always assumed that a user would know if their system was advertised as LSB compliant and based on that should know if they can install software that requires LSB compliance (does any actually exist?). Now looking into the LSB support on debian, apparently there is an lsb_release command to identify the type of LSB system you are on. On Debian Sarge (3.1/testing) runing lsb_release with some of the lsb-core and such installed returns this: Without any of the support packages installed lsb_release shows: LSB Version: n/a Hmm, well lsb_release -a shows: LSB Version: n/a Distributor ID: Debian Description: Debian GNU/Linux Release: 3.1 Codename: sarge It seems Debian has lsb support, but don't claim to be fully compliant with any LSB version, so the field is n/a. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 15:49:56 2005 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 11:49:56 -0400 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's spatch utility Message-ID: <20050418164549.7EE34B4EE8@outbox.allstream.net> Way back in my QNX days I used a utility called "spatch" which allowed me to display and change contents of binary files in what was like an editor. It was a little bit like old trusty od -c myfile but much more comprehensive and interactive. Does anyone know of a Linux equivalent? bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 17:00:44 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:00:44 -0400 Subject: Linux World apparel Message-ID: <4263E7BC.3090501@md5.ca> Hi, I apologise for lateness of my request but I need shirt sizes for all the volunteers at the LinuxWorld canada, asap. later, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 17:06:11 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:06:11 -0400 Subject: Linux World apparel In-Reply-To: <4263E7BC.3090501-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <4263E7BC.3090501@md5.ca> Message-ID: <4263E903.5010307@md5.ca> Adding ... As well I will front the cost of printing the shirts, I had quoted price of 14$ a shirt. The volunteers can refund the cost of the shirt at the show. The color will be dark blue, and printing of the tlug logo will be in white. regards, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 17:50:26 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 13:50:26 -0400 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's spatch utility In-Reply-To: <20050418164549.7EE34B4EE8-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050418164549.7EE34B4EE8@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <4263F362.7090008@istop.com> Dont know spatch but mc (midnigh commander) allows to view and edit binary data. zb bob wrote: > Way back in my QNX days I used a utility called "spatch" which allowed me to > display and change contents of binary files in what was like an editor. > > It was a little bit like old trusty > > od -c myfile > > but much more comprehensive and interactive. > > Does anyone know of a Linux equivalent? > > bob > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 18:07:32 2005 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:07:32 -0400 Subject: Determining linux distribution In-Reply-To: <4263CA8F.3080206-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200504161936.28319.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <20050418135647.GA23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4263CA8F.3080206@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200504181407.34729.clifford_ilkay@dinamis.com> On April 18, 2005 10:56, David J Patrick wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > ls /etc/*release /etc/*version could be better, and if you cat any file > > > >found, you would have an idea of the version number (but only any idea > >as it may be wrong. Debian unstable will still say 3.1 even though it > >isn't 3.1). > > > >cat /etc/issue may help too on some distributions. > > > >But there certainly isn't a universal solution. > > I had the same question trying to urpmi a friends old Mandrake box, but > was unsure what version he was at. cat /etc/urpmi/urpmi.cfg might offer some clues if your friend is pointing at any on-line urpmi repositories. It would not be of much use if the only repositories were the installation CDs as the version is not embedded in the name. cat /etc/issue might also be useful. The usual caveats about customizations apply. -- Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, ON Canada M4N 3P6 +1 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 18:26:47 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:26:47 -0400 Subject: Linux World apparel In-Reply-To: <4263E903.5010307-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <4263E7BC.3090501@md5.ca> <4263E903.5010307@md5.ca> Message-ID: <4263FBE7.4050409@md5.ca> Change of plans: I will head out and make a few sticky labels with TLUG logo on it, instead of T-Shirt printing, I will be early at the show tomorrow, early to drop off stickers. Please wear light colored shirts for the show, if you are planning on volunteering. regards, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 21:35:55 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:35:55 -0700 Subject: Meeting videos In-Reply-To: References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> <20050417233836.GK76954@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20050418213555.GC29574@unleashed.org> Sy (sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) [050418 05:51]: > On 4/17/05, Steve Harvey wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 01:33:39AM -0400, psema4 wrote: > > > > > > Webcasts and/or recordings of TLUG meets for distribution over the > > > internet might be a really good idea. > > > > > > To be completely honest, there are lots and lots of folks who don't > > > know anything about linux, open source, floss, or related subjects - > > > but are hearing more and more of these terms being used in plenty of > > > places - including newspapers (most recently+locally, the T.O. Star) > > > and such. > > > > > > With the possibility of more federal elections coming soon, and given > > > the "floss jolt" that the political parties were subjected too during > > > the 2004 elections*... > > > > > > There might be a fair number of potential members that (quite > > > possibly) also don't come to (L)UG meetings simply because they do not > > > know what to expect. > > > > > > Video might be a great way to "ease" these folks into it? > > > > It might also help for the (albeit small) number of us with other > > commitments during evening hours. > > If we had an aspiring filmmaker, it would be interesting to have a > "behind the scenes" underground film done sortof to the tune of a > behind the scenes rock star biography. Lots of candid interviews, > following people on their way to a meeting, bar conversation > snippets.. lots of filming in grainy black and white.. =) I'm gunning for TLUG: The Musical... > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 21:39:42 2005 From: leah-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ at public.gmane.org (Leah Cunningham) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 14:39:42 -0700 Subject: Donation List In-Reply-To: <008a01c54223$558698a0$4d01a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <008a01c54223$558698a0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050418213942.GD29574@unleashed.org> Colin McGregor (colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) [050415 18:26]: > I would like to have a donor list at the show (with a small number of copies > for distribution), something along the lines of the following (and > suggestion, corrections, etc are VERY welcome): I don't know if it is too late, but it might be nice to thank Novell on that list. Cheers, Leah > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > The Toronto Linux User Group would like to thank the follow people and > organisations for making our presence at this show possible: > > Robert Brockway > Innovation Toronto > Ulf Kellermann > John Myshrall > OpenTrend Solutions > William Park > David J Patrick > Plum Communications > Tenth Power Inc. > ... and our many volunteers > > The Toronto Linux User Group would also like to thank the organisations that > help support our efforts on an ongoing basis: > > IBM Canada Limited > Seneca College of Applied Arts and Technology > Systems Software Computer Consulting > University of Toronto > ... and our many volunteers > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > In case anyone is unfamiliar with some of the names listed, > > - Plum Communications is running the trade show, and supplied us with the > booth. > - Innovation Toronto (aka G.T.C.C., reSource) is loaning booth furnishings, > and computers. > - Systems Software Computer Consulting supports our mailing list (on > ss.org). > - IBM, Seneca, and U of T supply meeting space. > - Everyone else is supplying money for power / photocopies. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. -------------------------------------------------- Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. -------------------------------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 18 21:52:32 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:52:32 -0400 Subject: Meeting videos In-Reply-To: <20050418213555.GC29574-8JrgHtYBq2OWVfeAwA7xHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <005001c542ee$07182640$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <4261D81E.6060202@sympatico.ca> <99a6c38f0504162233249778e7@mail.gmail.com> <20050417233836.GK76954@shell.vex.net> <20050418213555.GC29574@unleashed.org> Message-ID: Can you put together a score? -Joseph- On 4/18/05, Leah Cunningham wrote: > Sy (sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) [050418 05:51]: > > On 4/17/05, Steve Harvey wrote: > > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2005 at 01:33:39AM -0400, psema4 wrote: > > > > > > > > Webcasts and/or recordings of TLUG meets for distribution over the > > > > internet might be a really good idea. > > > > > > > > To be completely honest, there are lots and lots of folks who don't > > > > know anything about linux, open source, floss, or related subjects - > > > > but are hearing more and more of these terms being used in plenty of > > > > places - including newspapers (most recently+locally, the T.O. Star) > > > > and such. > > > > > > > > With the possibility of more federal elections coming soon, and given > > > > the "floss jolt" that the political parties were subjected too during > > > > the 2004 elections*... > > > > > > > > There might be a fair number of potential members that (quite > > > > possibly) also don't come to (L)UG meetings simply because they do not > > > > know what to expect. > > > > > > > > Video might be a great way to "ease" these folks into it? > > > > > > It might also help for the (albeit small) number of us with other > > > commitments during evening hours. > > > > If we had an aspiring filmmaker, it would be interesting to have a > > "behind the scenes" underground film done sortof to the tune of a > > behind the scenes rock star biography. Lots of candid interviews, > > following people on their way to a meeting, bar conversation > > snippets.. lots of filming in grainy black and white.. =) > > I'm gunning for TLUG: The Musical... > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. > -------------------------------------------------- > Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse > www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. > -------------------------------------------------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 00:23:18 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 20:23:18 -0400 Subject: (Final) Volunteering at Linux World trade show In-Reply-To: <20050418002657.GA2356-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050401162051.GA2068@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414034445.GA1874@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050414040254.GA2023@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050415150959.GA2142@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050416005006.GA5904@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050418002657.GA2356@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050419002318.GA3598@node1.opengeometry.net> Linux World trade show starts tomorrow. See you there. For reference... Apr 19 Apr 20 (11-3)(2-6) (11-3)(2-6) Leah Cunningham (1) xxx Bogdan Bejan (any) xxx xxx Allen Taylor (2 max) xxx xxx Jeffrey Pikul (any) xxx xxx Seneca Cunningham (any) xxx xxx Gordon Chillcott xxx Ulf Kellermann (any) xxx xxx Jay Shu (any) xxx xxx Sim Brigden (any) xxx xxx -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 02:03:03 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 22:03:03 -0400 Subject: Donation List References: <008a01c54223$558698a0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20050418213942.GD29574@unleashed.org> Message-ID: <003b01c54483$ec09d8c0$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Novell and C.L.U.E. will get a mention on the list. Novell I gather has come though with SOME free stuff and C.L.U.E. has donated some $ to help with power, photocopies, etc... "Leah Cunningham" on Monday, April 18, 2005 5:39 PM wrote: > Colin McGregor (colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org) [050415 18:26]: > > I would like to have a donor list at the show (with a small number of copies > > for distribution), something along the lines of the following (and > > suggestion, corrections, etc are VERY welcome): > > I don't know if it is too late, but it might be nice to thank Novell > on that list. > > Cheers, > Leah > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > The Toronto Linux User Group would like to thank the follow people and > > organisations for making our presence at this show possible: > > > > Robert Brockway > > Innovation Toronto > > Ulf Kellermann > > John Myshrall > > OpenTrend Solutions > > William Park > > David J Patrick > > Plum Communications > > Tenth Power Inc. > > ... and our many volunteers > > > > The Toronto Linux User Group would also like to thank the organisations that > > help support our efforts on an ongoing basis: > > > > IBM Canada Limited > > Seneca College of Applied Arts and Technology > > Systems Software Computer Consulting > > University of Toronto > > ... and our many volunteers > > > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- > > > > In case anyone is unfamiliar with some of the names listed, > > > > - Plum Communications is running the trade show, and supplied us with the > > booth. > > - Innovation Toronto (aka G.T.C.C., reSource) is loaning booth furnishings, > > and computers. > > - Systems Software Computer Consulting supports our mailing list (on > > ss.org). > > - IBM, Seneca, and U of T supply meeting space. > > - Everyone else is supplying money for power / photocopies. > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > Must not turn into a snake. It never helps. > -------------------------------------------------- > Leah R. M. Cunningham | (heinous)@freenode #suse > www.heinous.org | Linux geek, et al. > -------------------------------------------------- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 03:58:34 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 18 Apr 2005 23:58:34 -0400 Subject: Tooltip in Javascript question; adding a delay Message-ID: <426481EA.6050704@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have started using a wonderful canned tooltip app in my program that pops up a little tooltip on key words explaining their purpose in greater detail. I want to add a slight (~1 sec) delay between the time the user places their mouse over the trigger and the display of the box. I've tried to read up on how to do this but my JS skills aren't the best and I am having some trouble figuring out how to make this happen. As I understand I should be able to use 'setTimeout()' to cause the delay and 'clearTimeout()' to abort the display if the onmouseout event occurs. I just need some help actually doing it. :p The script is called with this: Blah I need the passed variable to pass through. Here is a basic function: function stm(var1, var2, ..., varN) { /* I want the 1 sec delay here */ } function htm() { /* I want to abort 'stm' if it is still in the delay */ } Thanks for any info/help! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 05:19:11 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 01:19:11 -0400 Subject: Tooltip in Javascript question; adding a delay In-Reply-To: <426481EA.6050704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <426481EA.6050704@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05041822193fcf1179@mail.gmail.com> > I have started using a wonderful canned tooltip app in my program > that pops up a little tooltip on key words explaining their purpose in > greater detail. I want to add a slight (~1 sec) delay between the time > the user places their mouse over the trigger and the display of the box. Capture the handle of the timer before you can clear it. Something like below should work:

Mouseover Me!

== snip == In the stm() and htm() functions, you'll want to replace the references to the textboxes in form01 with the DIV names used by your tooltipping script. Not sure if I can clarify any better without knowing which "canned" scripts your using. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 18:24:50 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 14:24:50 -0400 Subject: Lab Management Conference at Cornell Message-ID: Hello there. I thought some of you may be interested in the 6th annual Academic Lab Management Conference. It is being held at Cornell University in Ithaca NY this year. It's about a five hour drive from Toronto. I'm a graduate student at Cornell and I assure you that it is a nice drive. More information is available at http://labmanconference.org I have never been to this conference. I'll participate because it is at Cornell and because I run an academic computer lab. Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 22:27:08 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:27:08 -0400 Subject: Dell Deals & Credit Cards Message-ID: <99a6c38f0504191527271aaef@mail.gmail.com> I had an interesting conversation a few moments ago with the fellow responsible for my addiction to Linux and Open Source. (A good friend - and my boss lol) Anyway, he was mentioning that Dell's got a deal on a server class system, available for today only at $350. It's a PowerEdge 420SC and includes a 40Gb SATA drive and 16 port switch. More info's available here if anyone's interested: http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/7_days_savings?c=ca&cs=CABSDT1&l=en&s=bsd The really interesting part was that one thing lead to another and we got on the topic of credit cards. Are there any Linux- or Open Source-branded cards out there, and if not, could they be used to fund LUG's or Open Source development projects? Signed, Very curious. :-) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 22:24:35 2005 From: Gord-nLHz8UdEZnjwvR0lvYjcXw at public.gmane.org (Gord Jeoffroy) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 18:24:35 -0400 Subject: : Dell Deals & Credit Cards Message-ID: Hello! Thanks for your message. I'm out of the office Wednesday, April 20. If your message requires immediate attention please contact Lisbeth (lisbeth at humeimaging.com; 416-921-7204 x221) who can redirect you. Otherwise, I'll respond when I'm back in the office on Thursday. Cheers! Gord Jeoffroy I.T. Manager, Hume Imaging Inc. Phone: 416-921-7204 x225 Cell: 416-986-8915 Fax: 416-921-7386 Web: www.humeimaging.com >>> "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org" 04/19/05 18:27 >>> I had an interesting conversation a few moments ago with the fellow responsible for my addiction to Linux and Open Source. (A good friend - and my boss lol) Anyway, he was mentioning that Dell's got a deal on a server class system, available for today only at $350. It's a PowerEdge 420SC and includes a 40Gb SATA drive and 16 port switch. More info's available here if anyone's interested: http://www1.ca.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/7_days_savings?c=ca&cs=CABSDT1&l=en&s=bsd The really interesting part was that one thing lead to another and we got on the topic of credit cards. Are there any Linux- or Open Source-branded cards out there, and if not, could they be used to fund LUG's or Open Source development projects? Signed, Very curious. :-) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Apr 19 23:15:35 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 19:15:35 -0400 Subject: Dell Deals & Credit Cards In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0504191527271aaef-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0504191527271aaef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <42659117.3000404@utoronto.ca> psema4 wrote: >The really interesting part was that one thing lead to another and we >got on the topic of credit cards. > >Are there any Linux- or Open Source-branded cards out there, and if >not, could they be used to fund LUG's or Open Source development >projects? > > There used to be one about 3 years back from a group called The Linux Fund but they appear to have died a relatively silent death. Regards, Marcus -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 00:11:22 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:11:22 -0400 Subject: Dell Deals & Credit Cards In-Reply-To: <42659117.3000404-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0504191527271aaef@mail.gmail.com> <42659117.3000404@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f05041917115202758@mail.gmail.com> > >Are there any Linux- or Open Source-branded cards out there, and if > >not, could they be used to fund LUG's or Open Source development > >projects? > > > > > > There used to be one about 3 years back from a group called The Linux > Fund but they appear to have died a relatively silent death. After some digging around, I found this an online application ( https://wwwa.applyonlinenow.com/CANapp/Ctl/redirect?CV_sourceCode=AJZN&CV_language=en ) for the LinuxFund card but www.linuxfund.org is definately down. A silent death (if they're dead) indeed. Google has some stuff cached as recently as October 2004 but no word anywhere it seems as to what happened. -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 00:36:38 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 20:36:38 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <4263D3F0.1080909-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> Message-ID: <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> John Myshrall wrote: > Matt Cahill wrote: > >> >> Hey folks, >> >> If there's any Libranet-users out there, v3.0 has finally been >> released. Downloads are available now and apparently CD's will be >> shipping May 31st. >> >> Link: http://www.libranet.com >> >> Cheers, >> >> Matt >> >> >> > Yep. Debating with the CD or DVD download. > > John > -- Further to this, system installed in 35 minutes. Installed the DVD ISO. Lots of eye candy on the install. I personally don't care about it as I thought they got it right on 2.8. Detected everything fine. Plus a Winmate capture card that wasn't seen before with Knoppix or Mepis latest. Now I'm gonna try MythTV. All the standard apps plus a kick ass admin system. Kernell 6.211 Worth the wait. Price may be the issue for many though however it is ten times better than SUXP and easily rivals Suse. My $ 0.02 John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 01:00:21 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:00:21 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <4265A416.2030206-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> Message-ID: On 4/19/05, John Myshrall wrote: > Worth the wait. Price may be the issue for many though however it is ten > times better than SUXP and easily rivals Suse. Price? You mean you have to pay for it? Bah humbug. Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 01:09:09 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:09:09 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> Message-ID: <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> Franco Saliola wrote: >On 4/19/05, John Myshrall wrote: > > > >>Worth the wait. Price may be the issue for many though however it is ten >>times better than SUXP and easily rivals Suse. >> >> > >Price? You mean you have to pay for it? Bah humbug. > >Franco > > > 1) Everybody has to eat. 2) Free does not pay the bills. Yeah I know there are some very good free distros out there. The best being Debian :) 3) I look for value for the buck. Then send my money. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 01:14:02 2005 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:14:02 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <4265A416.2030206-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> Message-ID: <200504192114.02639.m-cahill@rogers.com> On April 19, 2005 08:36 pm, John Myshrall wrote: > > Further to this, system installed in 35 minutes. Installed the DVD ISO. > > Lots of eye candy on the install. I personally don't care about it as I > thought they got it right on 2.8. > > Detected everything fine. Plus a Winmate capture card that wasn't seen > before with Knoppix or Mepis latest. Now I'm gonna try MythTV. > > All the standard apps plus a kick ass admin system. > > Kernell 6.211 > > Worth the wait. Price may be the issue for many though however it is ten > times better than SUXP and easily rivals Suse. > > My $ 0.02 > > John Sweet. Saw some pics of the new Adminmenu: talk about improving on near-perfection. Yes, it's a little expensive - in fact, it's quite expensive (for me). However, I have no issues pony'ing up for it. Thanks for the feedback! Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 01:41:26 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 21:41:26 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <200504192114.02639.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Cahill" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Libranet 3.0 out > > Sweet. Saw some pics of the new Adminmenu: talk about improving on > near-perfection. Yes, it's a little expensive - in fact, it's quite > expensive (for me). However, I have no issues pony'ing up for it. > Thanks for the feedback! > > Matt Cheaper than Suse 9.3 Professional by $10. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 02:29:14 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:29:14 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Hi all, Is there a way to activate the CRT output on a laptop? With Windoze there is function key to switch between LCD and external, how can we do it with Linux? Thanks. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 02:37:59 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:37:59 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <000901c54552$0990b340$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Arrggghhh.. Just found i810switch! Works ok. F. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francois Ouellette" To: Sent: Tuesday, 19 April, 2005 22:29 Subject: [TLUG]: CRT display on Thinkpad? Hi all, Is there a way to activate the CRT output on a laptop? With Windoze there is function key to switch between LCD and external, how can we do it with Linux? Thanks. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.9.18 - Release Date: 19/4/05 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 02:41:08 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 22:41:08 -0400 Subject: Dell Deals & Credit Cards In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0504191527271aaef-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0504191527271aaef@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 4/19/05, psema4 wrote: > Are there any Linux- or Open Source-branded cards out there, and if > not, could they be used to fund LUG's or Open Source development > projects? Yes, I have one in my wallet. The Linux Fund started an "affiliates" card back in about 1999. They were giving out $1000 grants to open source projects back in about 2002. I don't think there was all that much money in it. There were grand imaginations of millions of dollars per year to use to fund projects. Reality was more on the order of tens of thousands, and it takes enough effort to run a charitable foundation that needs to actively spend the funds in order to continue to qualify for the plan that I think they gave up on it. The domain linuxfund.org is on hold; presumably the participants stopped paying the bills. That doesn't make them scoundrels; just "busy people" that figured they couldn't afford the time on an unworthwhile project. -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 03:24:39 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Tue, 19 Apr 2005 23:24:39 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <4265ABB5.7020208-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> Message-ID: On 4/19/05, John Myshrall wrote: > 1) Everybody has to eat. > 2) Free does not pay the bills. Yeah I know there are some very good > free distros out there. The best being Debian :) > 3) I look for value for the buck. Then send my money. I don't mind that there are distributions you have to pay for out there. In fact, if I had to pay for a distro, then I'd look at Canadian distros. I just really, really like Debian's philosophy of free software and not supporting other distros is a good way to keep Debian strong. I imagine Libranet is pumping some cash into Debian. At least they really should be being a Debian based distro. Otherwise a very big 'bah humbug' indeed! Any news on whose talking at the NewTLUG meeting next week? I'm gonna be in Toronto and this will be my first *TLUG meeting. Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 04:37:45 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:37:45 -0400 Subject: Offsite backups [Redux] Message-ID: <20050420043745.GA11248@waltdnes.org> Thanks to everybody who participated in the thread. I followed a suggestion, got a 40 gig IOGear external drive and Monday evening it was in my safety deposit box. I got it at Canada Computers. I had to go to their downtown location. The North York outlet (Newtonbrook Mall) didn't have it. It's not so much having to spend two TTC tokens that mildly annoyed me, but rather the extra time coming and going. I live in Thornhill, near Promenade Mall. There are two YRT buses that go from Promenade Mall right past Newtonbrook Mall on their way to the Finch station. Going downtowm means going to the YRT Finch station, walking to the TTC Finch station and then going all the way downtown via subway to College station and then catch the streetcar westbound. Then retrace the journey back home. -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 04:45:12 2005 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 00:45:12 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor terminology question Message-ID: <20050420044512.GB11248@waltdnes.org> When a monitor is advertised as having D-Sub/DVI(option) does that mean it will accept only DVI input? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 10:56:03 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 06:56:03 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? In-Reply-To: <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <42663543.4080100@rogers.com> Francois Ouellette wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a way to activate the CRT output on a laptop? With Windoze there is > function key to switch between LCD and external, how can we do it with > Linux? I find that on my ThinkPad, I have to switch before Linux starts. On ThinkPads, you can switch with Fn & F7. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 11:04:05 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:04:05 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <42663543.4080100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <001901c54598$bcf3ffa0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> >From: "James Knott" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, 20 April, 2005 6:56 >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: CRT display on Thinkpad? > > Francois Ouellette wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > Is there a way to activate the CRT output on a laptop? With Windoze there is > > function key to switch between LCD and external, how can we do it with > > Linux? > > I find that on my ThinkPad, I have to switch before Linux starts. On > ThinkPads, you can switch with Fn & F7. > -- Hi, The Fn F7 sequence only seems to work with Windoze on my R31... After I posted my message I found the i810switch program which seem to do the job. Thanks, Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 11:36:08 2005 From: right_maple_nut-/E1597aS9LT10XsdtD+oqA at public.gmane.org (Amos H. Weatherill) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 07:36:08 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor terminology question In-Reply-To: <20050420044512.GB11248-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050420044512.GB11248@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: No, it doesn't. D-Sub means that it will take standard VGA input. Amos" The Compudoc" Weatherill -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Walter Dnes Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 12:45 AM To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: [TLUG]: LCD monitor terminology question When a monitor is advertised as having D-Sub/DVI(option) does that mean it will accept only DVI input? -- Walter Dnes An infinite number of monkeys pounding away on keyboards will eventually produce a report showing that Windows is more secure, and has a lower TCO, than linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 12:14:57 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:14:57 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? In-Reply-To: <001901c54598$bcf3ffa0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <42663543.4080100@rogers.com> <001901c54598$bcf3ffa0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <20050420121457.GA18144@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 07:04:05AM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: >> Francois Ouellette wrote: >> > Hi all, >> > >> > Is there a way to activate the CRT output on a laptop? With Windoze >there is >> > function key to switch between LCD and external, how can we do it with >> > Linux? >> >> I find that on my ThinkPad, I have to switch before Linux starts. On >> ThinkPads, you can switch with Fn & F7. >> -- > >Hi, > >The Fn F7 sequence only seems to work with Windoze on my R31... > >After I posted my message I found the i810switch program which seem to do >the job. Interesting. I have an old 600X, and the switch for that seems to be entirely hardware-based. I just hit the Function+F7 key and it switches between the three modes (one screen, other screen, both screens). It's a shame that something that should be done in hardware is done in software on the newer machines. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 12:16:24 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 08:16:24 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) Message-ID: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> I came away from the LinuxWorld Expo yesterday with the feeling I was in the wrong place. I'm guessing there were interesting things to see if your bias was toward hardware and administration, but for a software development specialist it seemed like a dumbed-down re-hash of last year's products and displays. Oh, well. What really did bug me was my brief conversation at the "Computers For Schools - Ontario" booth. With my interest in the use of Open Source software within the non-profit sector, I asked the woman what kind of acceptance they were seeing for Linux among their clients. To which she replied, "Linux...that's a program, right?" I guess I looked as stunned as I felt as I waved my hand around, indicating the other booths on the show floor. She added, "Oh, we don't care about that. We're just here to get donations." (Money lenders. Temple. Eckkk.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 16:36:41 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:36:41 -0700 Subject: PegaSoft - Tomorrow - SDL Message-ID: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> This is a reminder that the next PegaSoft dinner meeting is tomorrow: Thursday, April 21, 2005 at 7:00 pm at Orwell's Pub near the Islington subway stop. Ken B. will be talking about the SDL gaming library. Attendance is free. If you would like good food and Linux developer talk, please leave a message with Mel Wilson (see http://www.pegasoft.ca/people.html) to make sure we reserve enough seats. For more info on PegaSoft, its open source projects and its objectives, visit the PegaSoft web site at http://www.pegasoft.ca. Ken B. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 13:39:26 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:39:26 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor terminology question In-Reply-To: <20050420044512.GB11248-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050420044512.GB11248@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: <20050420133926.GF23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 12:45:12AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > When a monitor is advertised as having D-Sub/DVI(option) does that > mean it will accept only DVI input? My guess is that it means it has a DB15 dsub VGA connector and can optionally be ordered/built with a DVI connector as well. For an LCD DVI is preferable (slightly) but not necesary, while for a CRT, DVI isn't really considered a sensible design choice. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 13:42:29 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 09:42:29 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> Message-ID: <20050420134229.GG23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 11:24:39PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > I don't mind that there are distributions you have to pay for out > there. In fact, if I had to pay for a distro, then I'd look at > Canadian distros. > > I just really, really like Debian's philosophy of free software and > not supporting other distros is a good way to keep Debian strong. I > imagine Libranet is pumping some cash into Debian. At least they > really should be being a Debian based distro. Otherwise a very big > 'bah humbug' indeed! If nothing else they are likely employing a few DD's which at least would pay their bills and help out Debian that way. > Any news on whose talking at the NewTLUG meeting next week? I'm gonna > be in Toronto and this will be my first *TLUG meeting. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 14:25:45 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:25:45 -0400 Subject: compressed printing to a laserjet from a shell program Message-ID: <42666669.7060806@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have a text-based accounting program running on Linux (clients and server). I have an HP LaserJet 2430dtn setup and working wonderfully from GUI apps and from the command line. What I need to do, and I have limited experience printing from the shell, is get the shell program to tell the printer to print in a compressed mode. I have created a second copy of the driver/queue to play with so the main printer driver should be left alone and stay working letting me experiment as I need to on the new second queue. The system is FC3 and the terminal is bash. Thanks!! The ever-questioning Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 14:32:32 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:32:32 -0400 Subject: compressed printing to a laserjet from a shell program In-Reply-To: <42666669.7060806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42666669.7060806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050420143232.GA5273@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 10:25:45AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have a text-based accounting program running on Linux (clients and > server). I have an HP LaserJet 2430dtn setup and working wonderfully > from GUI apps and from the command line. What I need to do, and I have > limited experience printing from the shell, is get the shell program to > tell the printer to print in a compressed mode. > > I have created a second copy of the driver/queue to play with so the > main printer driver should be left alone and stay working letting me > experiment as I need to on the new second queue. > > The system is FC3 and the terminal is bash. > > Thanks!! > > The ever-questioning Madison "a2ps" will do what you want. It accepts text input and converts it to postscript, supporting a wide range of filtering and formatting choices. Another similar program is "enscript". -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 14:30:37 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:30:37 -0400 Subject: compressed printing to a laserjet from a shell program In-Reply-To: <42666669.7060806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42666669.7060806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050420143037.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 10:25:45AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I have a text-based accounting program running on Linux (clients and > server). I have an HP LaserJet 2430dtn setup and working wonderfully > from GUI apps and from the command line. What I need to do, and I have > limited experience printing from the shell, is get the shell program to > tell the printer to print in a compressed mode. > > I have created a second copy of the driver/queue to play with so the > main printer driver should be left alone and stay working letting me > experiment as I need to on the new second queue. > > The system is FC3 and the terminal is bash. What do you mean by compressed mode? If you mean like 2 pages on on sheet of paper, then if you have a good printing system (nothing beats cupsys) then you can do: lpr -o number-up=2 It also has lots of other options you can pass with -o. It doesn't need extra print queues for different options the way that used to be the solution with the dumber print systems (like lpd/lpr/lprng etc). I currently run a LaserJet 4100 at work using the driver: HP LaserJet 4100 Foomatic/hpijs Works very well. I had some margin issues using raw postscript and the PCL drivers. hpijs works perfectly though. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 14:40:38 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 10:40:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Dell Deals & Credit Cards In-Reply-To: <42659117.3000404-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <99a6c38f0504191527271aaef@mail.gmail.com> <42659117.3000404@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Apr 2005, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > There used to be one about 3 years back from a group called The Linux > Fund but they appear to have died a relatively silent death. LinuxFund was at last year's LinuxWorld but were noticably absent this year. The idea of LinuxFund iirc was to be a non-profit providing funds for OSS/Linux development. I think the credit card thing was a side project, probably aimed at generating additional funds. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 15:10:43 2005 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 11:10:43 -0400 Subject: compressed printing to a laserjet from a shell program In-Reply-To: <20050420143232.GA5273-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <42666669.7060806@alteeve.com> <20050420143232.GA5273@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050420151043.GO15833@gedris.org> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 10:32:32AM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > > "a2ps" will do what you want. It accepts text input and converts > it to postscript, supporting a wide range of filtering and > formatting choices. > > Another similar program is "enscript". Also "mpage". Cheers, Vic -- Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 19:36:43 2005 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Ray Payne) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:36:43 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) In-Reply-To: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On the up side, that was VERY entertaining to read after the fact. Just imagining the dumbfounded look of trying to explain what Linux is to someone with a booth in LinuxWorld... I needed a laugh today. Thanks. :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of phil Sent: Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:16 AM To: Subject: [TLUG]: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) I came away from the LinuxWorld Expo yesterday with the feeling I was in the wrong place. I'm guessing there were interesting things to see if your bias was toward hardware and administration, but for a software development specialist it seemed like a dumbed-down re-hash of last year's products and displays. Oh, well. What really did bug me was my brief conversation at the "Computers For Schools - Ontario" booth. With my interest in the use of Open Source software within the non-profit sector, I asked the woman what kind of acceptance they were seeing for Linux among their clients. To which she replied, "Linux...that's a program, right?" I guess I looked as stunned as I felt as I waved my hand around, indicating the other booths on the show floor. She added, "Oh, we don't care about that. We're just here to get donations." (Money lenders. Temple. Eckkk.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 19:49:36 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:49:36 -0400 Subject: the web as a database In-Reply-To: <1114015001.4446.20.camel-/BKvNsQo1N5uDg+pOUj4hwLNbHufi5vF@public.gmane.org> References: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> Message-ID: <4266B250.5070005@istop.com> Just an idea. May be someone will want to comment? Wouldnt it be wonderful that after typing a complex SQL-like query to Google I get a precise response with listing of all web pages on the Internet that contain a relevant information that interests me? The problem is that Google-like search engines index the content of HTML pages. And HTML was designed to hold information that is supposed to be displayed in the browser. It was not designed to categorise that information. The HTML meta-tags like keywords and description are merely an attempt only to ad some categorization but a poor attempt. Thats why good search engines do not treat their content very seriously. Lets take as an example: for some reason I wanted to build a database of all physics laboratories in the world. I would like to know where are they located (country, state/province, exact address, what are the main subjects of their research, whom to contact there for information, what are the names of main researches, etc.) In principle all this information does exist already on the web. I do not need to explain however that it is extremally tudios and time-consuming task to find it out and categorise. Hence, I am talking about a new sort of the web functionality. Where the data could be taken out off, reworked, and displayed in a different way. Some may suggest the use of XML. Probably a good idea. I do not have however a general understanding of what is behind XML. In principle, I imagine, web sites could have a special file hosted on their server that would contain a detailed information about the content of these web sites, or at least about the company. Like in the example above. A sort of like now /robots.txt is used, or newsfeed.xml . Is there no other way? If somebody would be interested in working with me on introducing that sort of new technology - please write. I have already some poor ideas how to do that. But I still am very interested in hearing your comments. The subject seems to be original, with a huge possible impact on the web development. A sort of like creating a new standard. zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 20:17:03 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:17:03 -0400 Subject: the web as a database In-Reply-To: <4266B250.5070005-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> <4266B250.5070005@istop.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Wouldnt it be wonderful that after typing a complex SQL-like query to > Google I get a precise response with listing of all web pages on the > Internet that contain a relevant information that interests me? > > The problem is that Google-like search engines index the content of HTML > pages. And HTML was designed to hold information that is supposed to be > displayed in the browser. It was not designed to categorise that > information. The HTML meta-tags like keywords and description are merely > an attempt only to ad some categorization but a poor attempt. Thats why > good search engines do not treat their content very seriously. I believe what you're referring to is known as the "Semantic Web". http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ It's being worked on, but don't hold your breath. It still does require people to do some work on their own to provide their data in RDF format. But if everyone did...oh my. :) The web would be a very different place. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 20:22:44 2005 From: matt.price-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Matt Price) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:22:44 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) In-Reply-To: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050420202244.GA1650@utoronto.ca> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 08:16:24AM -0400, phil wrote: > I came away from the LinuxWorld Expo yesterday with the feeling I was > in the wrong place. I'm guessing there were interesting things to see > if your bias was toward hardware and administration, but for a software > development specialist it seemed like a dumbed-down re-hash of last > year's products and displays. Oh, well. > > What really did bug me was my brief conversation at the "Computers For > Schools - Ontario" booth. With my interest in the use of Open Source > software within the non-profit sector, I asked the woman what kind of > acceptance they were seeing for Linux among their clients. To which > she replied, "Linux...that's a program, right?" I guess I looked as > stunned as I felt as I waved my hand around, indicating the other > booths on the show floor. She added, "Oh, we don't care about that. > We're just here to get donations." that is so yucky. do you know anything about useo f Linux in schools here? I'd be interested to hear... -------------------------- .''`. Matt Price : :' : Debian User `. `'` & hemi-geek `- -------------------------- if you're an evil spambot, these addresses are for you: aardvark-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org, zeus-Pon+SpnbFiwUAMSarvUCqw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 20:29:52 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:29:52 -0400 Subject: the web as a database In-Reply-To: References: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> <4266B250.5070005@istop.com> Message-ID: <4266BBC0.4090001@istop.com> Taavi Burns wrote: > On 4/20/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >>Wouldnt it be wonderful that after typing a complex SQL-like query to >>Google I get a precise response with listing of all web pages on the >>Internet that contain a relevant information that interests me? >> >>The problem is that Google-like search engines index the content of HTML >>pages. And HTML was designed to hold information that is supposed to be >>displayed in the browser. It was not designed to categorise that >>information. The HTML meta-tags like keywords and description are merely >>an attempt only to ad some categorization but a poor attempt. Thats why >>good search engines do not treat their content very seriously. > > > I believe what you're referring to is known as the "Semantic Web". > http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/ > > It's being worked on, but don't hold your breath. It still does > require people to > do some work on their own to provide their data in RDF format. But if everyone > did...oh my. :) The web would be a very different place. > Thank you very much, Taavi, for the link. I did not know that the thing exists. Anyway, there are always ways around to introduce them. W3C is a sitting duck. Waiting, talking with companies that may support them, negotiating, and all this b*ls**t. This can be done without waiting, rather by enforcing certain solutions by using them and making them popular. Indeed, the web would become entirely different once these ideas were used. zb. -- Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 20:31:49 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:31:49 -0400 Subject: compressed printing to a laserjet from a shell program In-Reply-To: <20050420143037.GH23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42666669.7060806@alteeve.com> <20050420143037.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4266BC35.7050209@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 10:25:45AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I have a text-based accounting program running on Linux (clients and >>server). I have an HP LaserJet 2430dtn setup and working wonderfully >>from GUI apps and from the command line. What I need to do, and I have >>limited experience printing from the shell, is get the shell program to >>tell the printer to print in a compressed mode. >> >> I have created a second copy of the driver/queue to play with so the >>main printer driver should be left alone and stay working letting me >>experiment as I need to on the new second queue. >> >> The system is FC3 and the terminal is bash. > > > What do you mean by compressed mode? > > If you mean like 2 pages on on sheet of paper, then if you have a good > printing system (nothing beats cupsys) then you can do: > > lpr -o number-up=2 ... It never ceases to amaze how a problem that can be so vexing can have such a simple solution. That worked perfectly, thank you! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 20:33:08 2005 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:33:08 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) In-Reply-To: <20050420202244.GA1650-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050420202244.GA1650@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20050420203308.GW15833@gedris.org> The Ottawa Canada Linux Users Group (OCLUG) had a CFS rep give a presentation at one of out LUG meetinigs several years ago. Some people in the organization appeared to have a major interest in Linux and Open Source stuff. OCLUG even put together a group of people to work with CFS to try to get the linux ball rolling... Unfortunately, it never really went anywhere and the project fizzled away. One of my students this semester is a sysadmin at CFS, so at least they are using, or are planning to use, Linux in-house. Maybe it will lead into further endeavours. Cheers, Vic -- Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 20:39:12 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:39:12 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) In-Reply-To: <20050420203308.GW15833-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A@public.gmane.org> References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050420202244.GA1650@utoronto.ca> <20050420203308.GW15833@gedris.org> Message-ID: <20050420203912.GC6449@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 04:33:08PM -0400, Vic Gedris wrote: > > The Ottawa Canada Linux Users Group (OCLUG) had a CFS rep give a I thought OCLUG was the Ottawa Carleton LUG. Has it grown recently? -------- :-) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 20:50:53 2005 From: vic-2vUEnoANFF8dnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (Vic Gedris) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 16:50:53 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) In-Reply-To: <20050420203912.GC6449-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050420202244.GA1650@utoronto.ca> <20050420203308.GW15833@gedris.org> <20050420203912.GC6449@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20050420205053.GX15833@gedris.org> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 04:39:12PM -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 04:33:08PM -0400, Vic Gedris wrote: > > > > The Ottawa Canada Linux Users Group (OCLUG) had a CFS rep give a > > I thought OCLUG was the Ottawa Carleton LUG. Has it grown recently? > -------- > :-) Yeah, a few years ago when Ottawa received the Supersize Me amalgamation treatment, the Regional Municipality of Ottawa-Carleton ceased to exist. At least we were able to keep the OCLUG acronym[1]. :) Cheers, Vic ....[1] not to be confused with the Orange County: http://oclug.org/ -- Vic Gedris | Sick of getting Microsoft email viruses? Try vic-at-gedris.org | using Linux instead! http://www.linux.org http://vic.gedris.org | GNU Privacy Guard (GPG) Key-ID: D77B43FB -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Apr 20 21:13:03 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 17:13:03 -0400 Subject: Tooltip in Javascript question; adding a delay In-Reply-To: <99a6c38f0504191111637ec50c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <426481EA.6050704@alteeve.com> <99a6c38f05041822193fcf1179@mail.gmail.com> <42652F5E.9060700@alteeve.com> <99a6c38f0504191111637ec50c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4266C5DF.6040804@alteeve.com> psema4 wrote: > My apologies, here's a complete example: > > == snip == > > In the stm() and htm() functions, you'll want to replace the > references to the textboxes in form01 with the DIV names used by your > tooltipping script. > > Not sure if I can clarify any better without knowing which "canned" > scripts your using. > Hi, Thank you very, very much for that script! I tried it out (copied ver-batim to a test file) and the text appeared right away with out a delay. This is under Mozilla 1.7.6. The script I am using is a modified version of: http://migoicons.tripod.com/dhtips.htm My modified version is next. I've incorporated it into my main 'tle-bu.js' file which I use for all JS needed by my program. I've documented right in the 'tle-bu.js' file how I call it now. Here is the script which currently works great but with no delay. Thanks again for your help! Madison -=-=-[ portion of tle-bu.js ]-=-=- /* - This has been modified by Madison to take these values from the calling page/script and no longer from the arrays - When calling a tooltip use [''] for the default value or over-ride by providing a new value. Don't quote integers! - Values are taken as: Blah Please see below for an explanation of each option (adapted from the Readme file that came with the source of the tooltip): - 1 Title: Sets the tip message's title. Leave it empty for none. You may also insert single quoted html tags. Example: single quoted . [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 2 Text: Sets the tip message's body text. You may also insert single quoted html tags. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 3 TitleColor: Sets the title's text color (the bold text at the top). You could use HEX values like '#ffffff' or normal like 'white'. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 4 TextColor: Sets the text's text color in the tip message. You could use HEX values like '#ffffff' or normal like 'white'. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 5 TitleBgColor: Sets the title's background color. Leave it empty to make transparent. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 6 TextBgColor: Sets the text's background color. Leave it empty to make it transparent. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 7 TitleBgImag: You may want to insert a background Image for the TITLE rather than a background color. If the image is not in the same directory or folder as your html file enter the full location of the image. Example: ["pictures/bgimg.gif"] and don't forget to specify the image's extension; '.jpg', '.gif', ect. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 8 TextBgImag: You may want to insert a background Image for the TEXT rather than a background color. If the image is not in the same directory or same folder as your html file enter the full location of the image. Example: ["pictures/bgimg.gif"] and don't forget to specify the image's extension; '.jpg', '.gif', ect. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 9 TitleTextAlign: Sets the position or alignment of the TITLE. You have 3 choices; 'left' which is the default, 'center' and 'right'. Leave Empty for left. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 10 TextTextAlign: Sets the position or alignment of the TEXT. You have 3 choices; 'left' which is the default, 'center' and 'right'. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 11 TitleFontFace: Sets the title's font family or face. Example ["Tahoma"]. Leave Empty for 'Verdana, Helvetiva, Tahoma, Sans-Serif' which is the default. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 12 TextFontFace: Sets the TEXT'S font family or face. Example ["Tahoma"]. Leave Empty for 'Verdana, Helvetiva, Tahoma, Sans-Serif' which is the default. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 13 TipPosition: Sets the tip message's popup position. You have 5 choices; 'left', 'center', 'right', 'float' and 'fixed'. if you set it as: a: 'left' - The tip message will popup on the left side of the mouse. b: 'center' - The tip message will popup in the center. The mouse will be in the center of the tip message. c: 'right' - This is the default position. You may leave the entry empty or set it as 'right'. In this case the tip message will popup on the right side of the mouse. d: 'float' - The tip message will not move with the mouse. Rather it will popup at the coordinates of the X-Coordinate and Y-Coordinate entries. If you scroll down or left the scroll values are added to the X-Coordinate and Y-Coordinate values so the tip message will always float in the same place no matter how much you scroll left or right. In simple words, "Static position". e: 'fixed' - The tip message will not move with the mouse. Rather it will popup at the coordinates of the X-Coordinate and Y-Coordinate entries. It will not float with the scrollbars. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 14 StickyStyle: Sets the 'Sticky Style' type of the tip message. You have 2 choices; 'sticky' and 'keep'. a: 'sticky' - The tip message will not hide after your mouse goes off the link and it will only be positioned once. A Close link is automatically generated and inserted at the top right of the tip message so if you would like to hide the tip message just click it. The properties ('color', 'bgcolor', ect) of the close link are set from the title's properties so the close link and title will have exactly the same style and look as the title. This is designed specially for the need of inserting links in the tip message or any thing that involves using the mouse in tip message's content. leave this entry empty for none sticky style. b: 'keep' - The tip message will not hide after your mouse goes of the link rather the tip message will move with your mouse around the page. This will produce the same effect as if you didn't specify the mouse out function in the link. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 15 TitleFontSize: Sets the title's font size. Numbers only. You many use negative or positive values like -1 or +1 or absolute values like 1, 2, 3. The default size is 1. [NO QUOTES !!] - 16 TextFontSize: Sets the Text's font size. Numbers only. You many use negative or positive values like -1 or +1 or absolute values like 1, 2, 3. The default size is 1. [NO QUOTES !!] - 17 Width: Sets the width of the tip message. Full Numbers only. The default width is 200. [NO QUOTES !!] - 18 Height: Sets the height of the tip message. Full Numbers only. The default height is the height needed to fit the content however you may want to add extra height. If you do enter the value here. [NO QUOTES !!] - 19 BorderSize: Sets the border size which is the colored frame around the tip message. It's color is set from the title's bgcolor. Again Full Numbers only. if you don't want a border set it as 0 or leave its entry empty. [NO QUOTES !!] - 20 PadTextArea: Adds extra padding to the area of the text. This adds extra space from the left, top, right, and bottom in the text content. [NO QUOTES !!] - 21 CoordinateX: a: If the tip message's position is set as 'left' or 'right' it sets the X-coordinate of the tip message relative to the position of the mouse. b: If the tip message's position is set as 'float' or 'fixed' it sets the X-coordinate of the tip message relative to the window. You may set positive or negative numbers. The default value is 10. [NO QUOTES !!] - 22 CoordinateY: a: If the tip message's position is set as 'left', 'right' or 'center' it sets the Y-coordinate of the tip message relative to the position of the mouse. b: If the tip message's position is set as 'float' or 'fixed' it sets the Y-coordinate of the tip message relative to the window. You may set positive or negative numbers. The default value is 10. [NO QUOTES !!] - 23 Transition: (Not supported outside IE; Don't use in TLE-BU!) Sets the transition number. The transition is the cool visual effect when the tip message shows. You have a choice from 0 to 51 different effects. 23 is random for the 22 first effects and 51 is random for all. To disable the transition set the value to -1. Full Numbers only. Make sure that the FiltersEnabled variable is set to 1 or the transition won't play. This requires Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 or later. [NO QUOTES !!] - 24 TransitionDuration: (Not supported outside IE; Don't use in TLE-BU!) Sets the duration of the transition. The time desired of transition action in seconds. You may use decimal numbers such as 0.3 or full numbers like 1. Setting the value to 0 also disables the transition. This requires Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 or later. [NO QUOTES !!] - 25 TransparencyLevel: (Not supported outside IE; Don't use in TLE-BU!) Add transparency level from 1 to 99. The decreasing values increase transparency so if you set it to 1 you will barely see the tip message and that's if you have good eyesight. If you set it to 99 it will be least transparent. Get the point?. Set 0 for none. This requires Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 or later. [NO QUOTES !!] - 26 ShadowType: (Not supported outside IE; Don't use in TLE-BU!) You may apply one of two shadow styles; 'simple' or 'complex'. Leave empty for none. You must also add a shadow color to enabled it. This requires Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 or later. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] - 27 ShadowColor: (Not supported outside IE; Don't use in TLE-BU!) Sets the shadow color. Leave empty to also disable the shadow. This requires Microsoft Internet Explorer 5.5 or later. [QUOTES REQUIRED!!] */ var FiltersEnabled = 0 // if your not going to use transitions or filters in any of the tips set this to 0 applyCssFilter() -=-=-[ portion of tle-bu.js ]-=-=- -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 00:00:09 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 19:00:09 -0500 Subject: Offsite backups [Redux] In-Reply-To: <20050420043745.GA11248-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050420043745.GA11248@waltdnes.org> Message-ID: On 4/19/05, Walter Dnes wrote: > Thanks to everybody who participated in the thread. I followed a > suggestion, got a 40 gig IOGear external drive and Monday evening it was > in my safety deposit box. Last weekend I picked up a couple of USB hard drive boxes and I have one of them sitting under my desk at work. Strangely, my office is more likely to burn down than my home. =/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 00:01:58 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:01:58 -0400 Subject: Linux World and Maddog Message-ID: <1114041718.26613.59.camel@holden.weait.net> Hi gang, It was good to see you (and so many other LUG-nuts) at the show. In addition to TLUG members I saw members of Kitchener - Waterloo LUG, Hamilton LUG, Hamilton Open Source User Group, and Bruce - Grey LUG at the show. The big news is this: If you didn't get to see and hear Maddog, you still have a chance. You can catch Maddog, in Waterloo, this Friday night. Jon "Maddog" Hall has agreed to come and talk to us. If you know someone that has toyed with the idea of F/OSS but hasn't taken the plunge, bring them to this presentation. Jon is the Executive Director of Linux International (http://www.li.org) Where: RIM Auditorium, 305 Phillip Street, Waterloo When: Friday, April 22, 2005 at 7:00pm Admission: free Topic: Free and Open Source (FOSS): Computing for the Twenty-First Century You should come, you should bring a friend. You'll find these same details on the kwlug.org web site. It will be worth the trip to Waterloo. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 00:07:01 2005 From: steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org (Steve Brown) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:07:01 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> Message-ID: <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> Anyone know if Debian is getting a cut from them? I'm trying to decide whether to try Arch or Ubuntu. Probably both... Steve On Tue, Apr 19, 2005 at 11:24:39PM -0400, Franco Saliola sat down at the 'puter and typed: > On 4/19/05, John Myshrall wrote: > > > 1) Everybody has to eat. > > 2) Free does not pay the bills. Yeah I know there are some very good > > free distros out there. The best being Debian :) > > 3) I look for value for the buck. Then send my money. > > I don't mind that there are distributions you have to pay for out > there. In fact, if I had to pay for a distro, then I'd look at > Canadian distros. > > I just really, really like Debian's philosophy of free software and > not supporting other distros is a good way to keep Debian strong. I > imagine Libranet is pumping some cash into Debian. At least they > really should be being a Debian based distro. Otherwise a very big > 'bah humbug' indeed! > > Any news on whose talking at the NewTLUG meeting next week? I'm gonna > be in Toronto and this will be my first *TLUG meeting. > > Franco > > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 00:15:35 2005 From: steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org (Steve Brown) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 20:15:35 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) In-Reply-To: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050421001535.GC19063@prayforwind.com> I thought they missed an opportunity to show casually interested users some of the benefits of switching to Linux. Ok, so they were targeting IT managers, but they use desktop & laptop computer too, right? Strangely enough it was Novell who seemed to get it. During their presentation they spoke at length about open source & the GPL, touching on some of the benefits of freedom... I did get on the list to have a shiny new VMware sent to me :). Xandros & Novell giving out CD's (lots of DVD's from Novell). Steve On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 08:16:24AM -0400, phil sat down at the 'puter and typed: > I came away from the LinuxWorld Expo yesterday with the feeling I was > in the wrong place. I'm guessing there were interesting things to see > if your bias was toward hardware and administration, but for a software > development specialist it seemed like a dumbed-down re-hash of last > year's products and displays. Oh, well. > > What really did bug me was my brief conversation at the "Computers For > Schools - Ontario" booth. With my interest in the use of Open Source > software within the non-profit sector, I asked the woman what kind of > acceptance they were seeing for Linux among their clients. To which > she replied, "Linux...that's a program, right?" I guess I looked as > stunned as I felt as I waved my hand around, indicating the other > booths on the show floor. She added, "Oh, we don't care about that. > We're just here to get donations." > > (Money lenders. Temple. Eckkk.) > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 01:52:13 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 21:52:13 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? In-Reply-To: <20050420121457.GA18144-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <42663543.4080100@rogers.com> <001901c54598$bcf3ffa0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050420121457.GA18144@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4267074D.7070406@rogers.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 07:04:05AM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > > >>>Francois Ouellette wrote: >>> >>>>Hi all, >>>> >>>>Is there a way to activate the CRT output on a laptop? With Windoze >> >>there is >> >>>>function key to switch between LCD and external, how can we do it with >>>>Linux? >>> >>>I find that on my ThinkPad, I have to switch before Linux starts. On >>>ThinkPads, you can switch with Fn & F7. >>>-- >> >>Hi, >> >>The Fn F7 sequence only seems to work with Windoze on my R31... >> >>After I posted my message I found the i810switch program which seem to do >>the job. > > > Interesting. I have an old 600X, and the switch for that seems to be > entirely hardware-based. I just hit the Function+F7 key and it > switches between the three modes (one screen, other screen, both screens). > It's a shame that something that should be done in hardware is done in > software on the newer machines. I don't know if it's done in software or blocked by Linux. I can switch before Linux starts, by hitting those keys, while waiting for the power up password. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 03:36:48 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2005 23:36:48 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <27879.206.186.8.130.1112384322.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <42663543.4080100@rogers.com> <001901c54598$bcf3ffa0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050420121457.GA18144@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4267074D.7070406@rogers.com> Message-ID: <001701c54623$6b22ce50$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> > > > > Interesting. I have an old 600X, and the switch for that seems to be > > entirely hardware-based. I just hit the Function+F7 key and it > > switches between the three modes (one screen, other screen, both screens). > > It's a shame that something that should be done in hardware is done in > > software on the newer machines. > > I don't know if it's done in software or blocked by Linux. I can switch > before Linux starts, by hitting those keys, while waiting for the power > up password. > After further experimentation, it seems that timing is the essence, the keys work before Linux gets (it seems) to multi-user mode. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 04:41:45 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 00:41:45 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) In-Reply-To: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: On 4/20/05, phil wrote: > What really did bug me was my brief conversation at the "Computers For > Schools - Ontario" booth. With my interest in the use of Open Source > software within the non-profit sector, I asked the woman what kind of > acceptance they were seeing for Linux among their clients. To which > she replied, "Linux...that's a program, right?" I guess I looked as > stunned as I felt as I waved my hand around, indicating the other > booths on the show floor. She added, "Oh, we don't care about that. > We're just here to get donations." What's even worse... did you see who's logo was on the bottom of their handout? Our favourite monopoly. Someone else at the show was telling me that each of these recycled and refurbished school computers ends up with a Windows license attached to it... part of the Microsoft funding. "Hey, we'll give you some money for this project, just make sure that all those PCs ship with Windows." No Linux. Sad sad sad pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 06:05:56 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 02:05:56 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <20050421000701.GB19063-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> Message-ID: On 4/20/05, Steve Brown wrote: > I'm trying to decide whether to try Arch or Ubuntu. Probably both... I'm looking at some distros as well, and I'll probably install early next week, so I'd like to hear about your decision and experience. Ubuntu and Gentoo are on the short list. Both are attractive. I haven't looked at Arch yet. I'll look it up. Okay, looked it up. It has some interesting aspects as well. So many good choices these days. I've got choice paralysis. Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 11:53:30 2005 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 07:53:30 -0400 Subject: Computers For Schools (LinuxWorld) References: <0345EB37-B196-11D9-89E9-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <005901c54668$bd221e00$4d01a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> "phil" on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 8:16 AM > I came away from the LinuxWorld Expo yesterday with the feeling I was > in the wrong place. I'm guessing there were interesting things to see > if your bias was toward hardware and administration, but for a software > development specialist it seemed like a dumbed-down re-hash of last > year's products and displays. Oh, well. Mixed bag at the show, I was pleased to see a few corners like the Skype promotion, and the Novell talk about how they are pushing the desktop... > What really did bug me was my brief conversation at the "Computers For > Schools - Ontario" booth. With my interest in the use of Open Source > software within the non-profit sector, I asked the woman what kind of > acceptance they were seeing for Linux among their clients. To which > she replied, "Linux...that's a program, right?" I guess I looked as > stunned as I felt as I waved my hand around, indicating the other > booths on the show floor. She added, "Oh, we don't care about that. > We're just here to get donations." Well, I had some flyers from Innovation Toronto (parent organization to G.T.C.C. and reSource) asking for the donation of used technology at the T.L.U.G. booth. Innovation Toronto was helping the Linux community and in turn asking for a bit of help in return. Also worth noting that Innovation Toronto uses open source internally (a mix of FreeBSD and Linux), though granted I am to blame for that :-) . > (Money lenders. Temple. Eckkk.) > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 12:21:11 2005 From: steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org (Steve Brown) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 08:21:11 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Choice paralysis (was Libranet 3.0 out) In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> Message-ID: <20050421122111.GA21387@prayforwind.com> I'm going to be installing tonight, first one that succeeds, stays. The following order. (I've never been successful installing anything with a GUI install): Ubuntu Arch Slackware I have a feeling Ubuntu will be the big desktop oriented Linux that finally becomes a household name. Could this be the one to really give EvilOS a good kick in the ass I wonder. Arch seems to have a simular philosophy to Slack, and I'm reading that it's been attracting lots of us old slackers for that reason. And, it's Canadian. If the above fail, I'll just install slackware again; from install to weekly maintenance I've found it to be simple and bulletproof. I can't yet imagine switching away from slack on my main box. Looks like Gentoo is definitely the way to go for a) those who really want to learn Linux inside out and b) performance/optimization freaks ;). The doc's at gentoo.org are the absolute best I've seen anywhere, often useful for users of other distributions. They certainly deserve a tryout and a donation, but unfortunately I found that the performance gained with compilation optimization for my machine was more than negated by the fact that it was forever compiling, like 7/24... (FreeBSD, not Gentoo or even Linux... but it's also source-based). I'm one of those who can't find inner peace unless I have the absolute latest stable version of every app I use, maybe that's got something to do with it ;) Steve On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 02:05:56AM -0400, Franco Saliola sat down at the 'puter and typed: > On 4/20/05, Steve Brown wrote: > > > I'm trying to decide whether to try Arch or Ubuntu. Probably both... > > I'm looking at some distros as well, and I'll probably install early > next week, so I'd like to hear about your decision and experience. > Ubuntu and Gentoo are on the short list. Both are attractive. I > haven't looked at Arch yet. I'll look it up. Okay, looked it up. It > has some interesting aspects as well. > > So many good choices these days. I've got choice paralysis. > > Franco > > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 13:00:03 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:00:03 -0400 Subject: [TLUG] Choice paralysis (was Libranet 3.0 out) In-Reply-To: <20050421122111.GA21387-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> <20050421122111.GA21387@prayforwind.com> Message-ID: <20050421130003.GA2918@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 08:21:11AM -0400, Steve Brown wrote: > I'm going to be installing tonight, first one that succeeds, stays. > The following order. (I've never been successful installing anything > with a GUI install): > > Ubuntu > Arch > Slackware > > I have a feeling Ubuntu will be the big desktop oriented Linux that > finally becomes a household name. Could this be the one to really give > EvilOS a good kick in the ass I wonder. > > Arch seems to have a simular philosophy to Slack, and I'm reading that > it's been attracting lots of us old slackers for that reason. And, > it's Canadian. > > If the above fail, I'll just install slackware again; from install to > weekly maintenance I've found it to be simple and bulletproof. I can't > yet imagine switching away from slack on my main box. > > Looks like Gentoo is definitely the way to go for a) those who really > want to learn Linux inside out and b) performance/optimization freaks > ;). The doc's at gentoo.org are the absolute best I've seen anywhere, > often useful for users of other distributions. They certainly deserve > a tryout and a donation, but unfortunately I found that the > performance gained with compilation optimization for my machine was > more than negated by the fact that it was forever compiling, like This is also my experience. I tried i486 (default Slackware) and i686 version, with everything else the same. i686 is faster for memory operations (ie. screen refresh), but makes little difference if harddisk is involved. It seems to be that Ubuntu, Gentoo, Slackware are good distros for personal use. But, one shouldn't ignore SuSe (soon to be Novell) for company use, simply because of their commercial support that you can buy and blame. The whole point of "enterprise" is not getting fired. :-) > 7/24... (FreeBSD, not Gentoo or even Linux... but it's also > source-based). I'm one of those who can't find inner peace unless I > have the absolute latest stable version of every app I use, maybe > that's got something to do with it ;) > > Steve > > On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 02:05:56AM -0400, Franco Saliola sat down at > the 'puter and typed: > > On 4/20/05, Steve Brown wrote: > > > > > I'm trying to decide whether to try Arch or Ubuntu. Probably > > > both... > > > > I'm looking at some distros as well, and I'll probably install early > > next week, so I'd like to hear about your decision and experience. > > Ubuntu and Gentoo are on the short list. Both are attractive. I > > haven't looked at Arch yet. I'll look it up. Okay, looked it up. It > > has some interesting aspects as well. > > > > So many good choices these days. I've got choice paralysis. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 13:12:55 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:12:55 -0400 Subject: the web as a database In-Reply-To: <4266BBC0.4090001-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> <4266B250.5070005@istop.com> <4266BBC0.4090001@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050421131255.GI23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 04:29:52PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Thank you very much, Taavi, for the link. > > I did not know that the thing exists. > > Anyway, there are always ways around to introduce them. W3C is a sitting > duck. Waiting, talking with companies that may support them, > negotiating, and all this b*ls**t. This can be done without waiting, > rather by enforcing certain solutions by using them and making them popular. > > Indeed, the web would become entirely different once these ideas were used. Well given people don't even seem able to write web pages that can be displayed in all browsers (ie using standard html and no junk extensions), whatever makes you think most web developers have enough clue to mark up their content with various meta information about what it is. Not going to happen. They are more worried about how it looks in IE, than about content or how that content can be accessed. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 13:24:04 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:24:04 -0400 Subject: compressed printing to a laserjet from a shell program In-Reply-To: <4266BC35.7050209-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42666669.7060806@alteeve.com> <20050420143037.GH23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4266BC35.7050209@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050421132404.GJ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 04:31:49PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 10:25:45AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >> I have a text-based accounting program running on Linux (clients and > >>server). I have an HP LaserJet 2430dtn setup and working wonderfully > >>from GUI apps and from the command line. What I need to do, and I have > >>limited experience printing from the shell, is get the shell program to > >>tell the printer to print in a compressed mode. > >> > >> I have created a second copy of the driver/queue to play with so the > >>main printer driver should be left alone and stay working letting me > >>experiment as I need to on the new second queue. > >> > >> The system is FC3 and the terminal is bash. > > > > > >What do you mean by compressed mode? > > > >If you mean like 2 pages on on sheet of paper, then if you have a good > >printing system (nothing beats cupsys) then you can do: > > > >lpr -o number-up=2 > > ... It never ceases to amaze how a problem that can be so vexing can > have such a simple solution. That worked perfectly, thank you! Just don't try to figure out the scripts behind the scenes of cupsys. They are very clever and really hard to follow. Great way to make your brain hurt. For example this is valid: lpr -o media=Letter,Transparency (great if you have an inkjet supported by gimpprint driver and want to tell it what it is printing on. It even has tons of high end brand name paper types). lpoptions -l gives a list for the chosen printer (if you have picked a default), otherwise tell it which printer to look at the options for, You can also do nice things like: lpr -o landscape lpr -o page-range=1-4,7-9 lpr -o outputorder=reverse (real handy on inkjets that stack paper backwards) lpr -o mirror (iron on transfers need this) lpr -o prettyprint (for c, c++ highlighting, and nice indenting and filename at top and such) lpr -o scaling=100 imagefile prints the image to fit 100% of the paper size by scaling it to fit. scaling=200 will make the image print on 4 sheets of paper. lpr -o natural-scaling=100 imagefile prints the image at 100% of it's original size (which I guess depends on some dpi setting somewhere) There are also cpi= lpi= and brightness=, gamme=, and so on for controlling text size for normal text files and brightness and gamma are obvious. For all the cupsys goodness see: http://localhost:631/sum.html#STANDARD_OPTIONS Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 13:27:46 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 09:27:46 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> Message-ID: <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 02:05:56AM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > On 4/20/05, Steve Brown wrote: > > > I'm trying to decide whether to try Arch or Ubuntu. Probably both... > > I'm looking at some distros as well, and I'll probably install early > next week, so I'd like to hear about your decision and experience. > Ubuntu and Gentoo are on the short list. Both are attractive. I > haven't looked at Arch yet. I'll look it up. Okay, looked it up. It > has some interesting aspects as well. > > So many good choices these days. I've got choice paralysis. Out of curiousity: Since you are considering Gentoo, I would love to know why you are considering it. I personally don't understand the point of its existance so I figure I must be missing something (or am just not at all the intended target), so perhaps someone who is considering it can explain what makes it attractive to them. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rgfranks-cmaem7PIVQT44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 15:33:36 2005 From: rgfranks-cmaem7PIVQT44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Greg Franks) Date: 21 Apr 2005 11:33:36 -0400 Subject: Linux equivalent to QNX's spatch utility In-Reply-To: <20050418164549.7EE34B4EE8-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050418164549.7EE34B4EE8@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: >>>>> "bob" == bob writes: bob> Way back in my QNX days I used a utility called "spatch" bob> which allowed me to display and change contents of binary bob> files in what was like an editor. bob> It was a little bit like old trusty bob> od -c myfile bob> but much more comprehensive and interactive. bob> Does anyone know of a Linux equivalent? emacs :-) All the weird stuff (non-printable ascii) comes out as \xxx though... There might be a proper "mode" floating around. I've never looked. -- Greg Franks <| _~@ __O _~@ __O Ottawa, Ontario, Canada |O\ -^\<;^\<, -^\<;^\<, (*)--(*)%----%---(*)%---/(*) "Where do you want to go today?" http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/go-tandem -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 15:43:27 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 11:43:27 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <000a01c54688$dc659ab0$6c486480@5042> The Gentoo phenomenon is best summed up on this site: http://funroll-loops.org/ Quite remarkable. LFS seems like it would be a better option for people looking to optimize their systems. It seems that emerge occupies the position of the be all and end all of the Linux experience for the uninformed user. A pity that when alternatives like apt-get exist that don't break your system. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennart Sorensen" To: Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 9:27 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Libranet 3.0 out > > Out of curiousity: Since you are considering Gentoo, I would love to > know why you are considering it. I personally don't understand the > point of its existance so I figure I must be missing something (or am > just not at all the intended target), so perhaps someone who is > considering it can explain what makes it attractive to them. > > Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 16:06:26 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:06:26 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <000a01c54688$dc659ab0$6c486480@5042> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000a01c54688$dc659ab0$6c486480@5042> Message-ID: <20050421160625.GL23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 11:43:27AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > The Gentoo phenomenon is best summed up on this site: > http://funroll-loops.org/ > > Quite remarkable. LFS seems like it would be a better option for people > looking to optimize their systems. It seems that emerge occupies the > position of the be all and end all of the Linux experience for the > uninformed user. A pity that when alternatives like apt-get exist that > don't break your system. Ehm, was that a comment for or against gentoo (and LFS for that matter)? As a long time Debian user I certainly know the usefulness of apt-get and maintainers that know what they are doing compiling things once for all to enjoy. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 16:23:15 2005 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Drew Sullivan) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:23:15 -0400 Subject: Test to bill and drew. Message-ID: <1114100596.24568.18.camel@pentagon.ss.org> Bill you should be able to post to this list. The only two people on it are you and me. To change the list. From diamond: ssh majordomo cd lists vi tlug-members Config information is in tlug-members.config -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 16:35:17 2005 From: zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org (dan sinclair) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 12:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Libranet 3.0 out Message-ID: <8501034423516755919PSYJTYDUOR.dsinclair@trekspace.com> Everyone always seems to harp on gentoo. I use gentoo, and no, I don't care about what config flags its using. The base is good enough for me. So, why not Debian? Well, I started on RedHat, then tried Debian, but Debian was sufficiently _not_ redhat that I couldn't find anything. I tried LSF, but got bogged down with glib compile errors. I eventually ended on gentoo. It puts stuff where I expect them from a RedHat perspective, and emerge is simple to use. I've only had issues from portage after I'd sufficiently messed up my system that it didn't know what was actually installed. The other issue is that debians stable is always behind, so if I want to use new er stuff I have to switch to unstable. I don't have to deal with that with gentoo. Portage usually has the lastest crap and I can just install it. No need to fiddle with the config (and yes, I realize you only have to do it once. But thats not the point). So, although you may not like it, gentoo isn't just about getting the most optmized system, or the best set of compile flags. dan > On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 11:43:27AM -0400, Jamon Camisso wrote: > > The Gentoo phenomenon is best summed up on this site: > > http://funroll-loops.org/ > > > > Quite remarkable. LFS seems like it would be a better option for people > > looking to optimize their systems. It seems that emerge occupies the > > position of the be all and end all of the Linux experience for the > > uninformed user. A pity that when alternatives like apt-get exist that > > don't break your system. > > Ehm, was that a comment for or against gentoo (and LFS for that matter)? > > As a long time Debian user I certainly know the usefulness of apt-get > and maintainers that know what they are doing compiling things once for > all to enjoy. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:50:19 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:50:19 +0000 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <20050421132746.GK23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 21, 2005 01:27 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 02:05:56AM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > > On 4/20/05, Steve Brown wrote: > > > I'm trying to decide whether to try Arch or Ubuntu. Probably both... > > > > I'm looking at some distros as well, and I'll probably install early > > next week, so I'd like to hear about your decision and experience. > > Ubuntu and Gentoo are on the short list. Both are attractive. I > > haven't looked at Arch yet. I'll look it up. Okay, looked it up. It > > has some interesting aspects as well. > > > > So many good choices these days. I've got choice paralysis. > > Out of curiousity: Since you are considering Gentoo, I would love to > know why you are considering it. I personally don't understand the > point of its existance so I figure I must be missing something (or am > just not at all the intended target), so perhaps someone who is > considering it can explain what makes it attractive to them. > > Lennart Sorensen I think this will sum it up quite well. I am Pro-Debian AND Pro-Gentoo. Each has it's time and place. Gentoo is definitely my preferred server environment and Debian ( unstable ) for desktop use. For server use there are numerous specialty programs that are not available for debian. Fine. Install from source you say. No problem. But wait.. Deploy this kind of server to your clients / friends. Try and keep on top of security updates. Mailing lists, visiting the software developers web site. A real pain and a potential security nightmare if you do not keep on top of it. Try selling / Deploying 30 servers, each customized for that particular purpose with Debian and custom packages. Either you spend you days looking for updates "just to be safe" or find a better method. Enter Gentoo - The better method Benefits of Gentoo: -Everything is compiled from source -You're in control -Powerful ports-based package manager -Easy package format -Centralized internet repository of packages -Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts Everything is compiled from source -Optimized for your hardware -Packages are built from the original sources -Fast package updates when new version appear -Can be turned into binary packages during or after package installation You're in control -Minimal installation -No services are activated by default -No configuration is done automatically -Default configurations are available but have to be performed explicitly -Your configurations are protected and will never be overwritten Powerful package manager -Packages are first installed in a staging directory, are only then merged into your live system -Performs installations in a protecting sandbox -Safe library updates on a running system -Resolves dependencies automatically -Keeps you informed about new updates -Updates your repository from the internet -Allows you to safely remove outdated packages -Can create and use binary packages -Low-level (developer) tool : ebuild -High-level (user) tool : emerge -System-wide configuration of your usage preferences (use-flags) -Virtual packages Easy package format -Closely mimics the bash commands you'd execute to install manually -Clearly separated installation phases : unpack, compile, install, merge -Pre and post actions for each installation phase -Additional configuration is done through the definition of variables : description, homepage, download url, dependencies, binary compatibility Centralized internet repository of packages -Immediate access to new versions -Intuitive synchronization of your local package tree -Direct access by developers to the same repository Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts -Not numbered -Scripts use or need each-other -Stopping a service auto-stops all services that need it -Services can be paused (stop function in other distributions) -Services can't be started or stopped multiple times -Easy tool to manage services -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:05:47 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:05:47 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <20050421132746.GK23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4263D3F0.1080909@golden.net> <4265A416.2030206@golden.net> <4265ABB5.7020208@golden.net> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 02:05:56AM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > > Ubuntu and Gentoo are on the short list. Both are attractive. On 4/21/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Out of curiousity: Since you are considering Gentoo, I would love to > know why you are considering it. I personally don't understand the > point of its existance so I figure I must be missing something (or am > just not at all the intended target), so perhaps someone who is > considering it can explain what makes it attractive to them. I don't have any experience with Gentoo, I know very little about it, but I like trying new distros. I've successfully installed and run the following: RedHat; Mandrake; Slackware; LFS; Fedora; RedHat Enterprise Linux; Debian; Knoppix (harddrive install); to name a few. So it's time to try something new. Mainly, there are two theoretical features I like about Gentoo. 1. I usually install some distribution (recently Debian/Debian-based) and end up compiling a bunch of programs from source for various reasons (I want certain features enabled; I want the newest versions; for example). I don't mind doing this, but it seems that Gentoo's packaging system would help with specific compilation arguments for packages (I haven't really looked into it in great detail). But, of course, this will only work for the Gentoo supported packages. 2. I like the idea that 'emerge' -- the package manager -- will always keep the system updated to the most recent distro. In theory, this means that you would not have to re-install from scratch again. Of course, I am quite sceptical of this (I imagine new technology will force gentoo to branch), but it is a nice thing to imagine it might work. It would definitely be handy if such a thing were true. Anyone have any experience with this? It'd be nice to hear experiences. Some cons. I have installed Linux From Scratch, and that was fun. I definitely learned a lot, and I recommend it at least once to everyone. Gentoo seems like an automated version of LFS, so I doubt one'll learn as much. The time spent compiling isn't worth the trade off in optimization. One can opt for the binary version of the install that bypasses all this compilation stuff (that seems to defeat part of the point of Gentoo). That being said, Ubuntu is the most likely candidate. I know my way around the Debian system, apt-get works very well, I'm curious to see what all the craze is about, and it's got a great name! I also have a licence for RedHat Enterprise Linux (5 in fact, through my university), but I'm not considering it all for my home system. Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:15:48 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:15:48 -0400 Subject: Test to bill and drew. In-Reply-To: <1114100596.24568.18.camel-ccvjzJVizCz5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org> References: <1114100596.24568.18.camel@pentagon.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050421171548.GM23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 12:23:15PM -0400, Drew Sullivan wrote: > Bill you should be able to post to this list. The only two people on it > are you and me. > > To change the list. From diamond: > ssh majordomo > cd lists > vi tlug-members > > Config information is in tlug-members.config So was all tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org readers supposed to see that? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:22:19 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:22:19 -0400 Subject: Test to bill and drew. In-Reply-To: <20050421171548.GM23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1114100596.24568.18.camel@pentagon.ss.org> <20050421171548.GM23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4267E14B.5080902@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >So was all tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org readers supposed to see that? > > cause we did ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:25:22 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:25:22 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <8501034423516755919PSYJTYDUOR.dsinclair-dZvLt6Hxk25l57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <8501034423516755919PSYJTYDUOR.dsinclair@trekspace.com> Message-ID: On 4/21/05, dan sinclair wrote: > The other issue is that debians stable is always behind, > so if I want to use new er stuff I have to switch to unstable. I think 'unstable' was a bad naming choice on Debian's behalf. It means it is not labelled the stable version, it doesn't really mean it is unstable. I think Debian unstable is quite stable, and arguably more stable than other stable distributions. Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:33:36 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:33:36 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <200504211750.19557.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 05:50:19PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: > I think this will sum it up quite well. I am Pro-Debian AND Pro-Gentoo. Each > has it's time and place. Gentoo is definitely my preferred server environment > and Debian ( unstable ) for desktop use. For server use there are numerous > specialty programs that are not available for debian. > > Fine. Install from source you say. No problem. No I don't ever say that. I say make a .deb if you want to install a program. Then place it in your personaly archive of packages for easy install and update for all yoru systems. > But wait.. > > Deploy this kind of server to your clients / friends. Try and keep on top of > security updates. Mailing lists, visiting the software developers web site. A > real pain and a potential security nightmare if you do not keep on top of it. > Try selling / Deploying 30 servers, each customized for that particular > purpose with Debian and custom packages. Either you spend you days looking > for updates "just to be safe" or find a better method. That's why I will build custom debian packages in my own archive and have all the machiens I maintain use packages from there. I have run 30 servers with Debian, and oh man was that ever a joy (I would hate to have used anything else for it). > Enter Gentoo - The better method > > Benefits of Gentoo: > > -Everything is compiled from source Which violates my first principle of using computers: Don't ever do something more than once when it can be avoided. That means write scripts, and let upstream compile it for you when possible. If upstream compiles it once everyone gets the result saving time anc cpu cycles and work for everyone. Overall net saving for the free time of computer users on the planet. Might as well use that spare time doing something productive like improving programs instead of doing the same old compile everyone else has already done. > -You're in control Hmm, never felt not in control with Debian. > -Powerful ports-based package manager apt-get/dpkg is quite powerful. > -Easy package format I find .deb's very easy. > -Centralized internet repository of packages Have you seen how many mirrors debian has? > -Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts Now that one you get bonus points for. Debian uses sysv (which is far superior to the crap in BSD and any version of slackware I have ever used) but certainly not the best system one could have. > Everything is compiled from source Which I consider a major flaw as it violates first principle above. > -Optimized for your hardware Oh sure, big deal. Show me a measureable improvement in running with compiler optimizations for a specific cpu other than the kernel. i486 is already quite fast on most systems (and glibc doesn't permit 386 optimization anymore). pgcc died out for a reason. It made no real diffence and broke a lot of code since the cpu optimizer was very buggy. > -Packages are built from the original sources And debian uses original source + patches to make packages install consistently. > -Fast package updates when new version appear Debian unstable is usually rather fast, but not always. That's a problem of the maintainer, not the distribution. If no one adds the new version to gentoo, how do you get it (besides doing it manually, and then you aren't really taking much advantage of the distribution anyway). > -Can be turned into binary packages during or after package installation > > You're in control > > -Minimal installation Debian base install is pretty small. > -No services are activated by default Seems true of any well designed distribution. > -No configuration is done automatically Sounds like a flaw rather than a feature. Debian asks me questions about how to configure thigns, and provides sane defaults that I can then change if I want to. I like things to be close to working when I install them. > -Default configurations are available but have to be performed explicitly > -Your configurations are protected and will never be overwritten Debian asks if you want to replace a config file. Default is to not replace. > Powerful package manager > > -Packages are first installed in a staging directory, are only then merged > into your live system > -Performs installations in a protecting sandbox > -Safe library updates on a running system > -Resolves dependencies automatically > -Keeps you informed about new updates > -Updates your repository from the internet > -Allows you to safely remove outdated packages > -Can create and use binary packages > -Low-level (developer) tool : ebuild > -High-level (user) tool : emerge > -System-wide configuration of your usage preferences (use-flags) > -Virtual packages Overall I see nothing apt-get doesn't seem to handle. > Easy package format > > -Closely mimics the bash commands you'd execute to install manually > -Clearly separated installation phases : unpack, compile, install, merge > -Pre and post actions for each installation phase > -Additional configuration is done through the definition of variables : > description, homepage, download url, dependencies, binary compatibility Building from source is for the exception not the rule. Sounds like the same things I would have to do in a debian/rules file to build a .deb > Centralized internet repository of packages > > -Immediate access to new versions As soon as someone adds the new version to the repository. > -Intuitive synchronization of your local package tree > -Direct access by developers to the same repository > > Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts > > -Not numbered > -Scripts use or need each-other > -Stopping a service auto-stops all services that need it > -Services can be paused (stop function in other distributions) > -Services can't be started or stopped multiple times > -Easy tool to manage services This so far is the only feature that sounds like a great one. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:36:46 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:36:46 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <8501034423516755919PSYJTYDUOR.dsinclair@trekspace.com> Message-ID: <20050421173646.GO23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 01:25:22PM -0400, Franco Saliola wrote: > I think 'unstable' was a bad naming choice on Debian's behalf. It > means it is not labelled the stable version, it doesn't really mean it > is unstable. I think Debian unstable is quite stable, and arguably > more stable than other stable distributions. Certainly matches my experience and many other people's. Debian simply uses the term to describe the version numbers. stable has stable version numbers that don't change. unstable has constantly changing version numbers. stable as in system is stable and unchanging, not that the software is bug free (although they hope that is mostly true too, in all their versions including unstable and testing). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:42:23 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:42:23 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <8501034423516755919PSYJTYDUOR.dsinclair-dZvLt6Hxk25l57MIdRCFDg@public.gmane.org> References: <8501034423516755919PSYJTYDUOR.dsinclair@trekspace.com> Message-ID: <20050421174223.GP23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 12:35:17PM -0400, dan sinclair wrote: > Everyone always seems to harp on gentoo. I use gentoo, and no, I don't care about what config flags its using. The base is good enough for me. > > So, why not Debian? Well, I started on RedHat, then tried Debian, but Debian was sufficiently _not_ redhat that I couldn't find anything. I tried LSF, but got bogged down with glib compile errors. I eventually ended on gentoo. It puts stuff where I expect them from a RedHat perspective, and emerge is simple to use. I've only had issues from portage after I'd sufficiently messed up my system that it didn't know what was actually installed. When I switched from Redhat to Debian, I was open minded and took the time to find where everything was on Debian, and overall I came to find Debian more consistent with it's placements (no wonder given they have policies on where everything should go based on what it is). I can't imagine going back to redhat anymore. Redhat would move things between releases quite often. Debian doesn't seem to do that. > The other issue is that debians stable is always behind, so if I want to use new er stuff I have to switch to unstable. I don't have to deal with that with gentoo. Portage usually has the lastest crap and I can just install it. No need to fiddle with the config (and yes, I realize you only have to do it once. But thats not the point). Well when Debian 3.0 was release, the software in it was quite up to date and everyone was so happy about it since it was so much newer than everything in 2.2. So why is it all of a sudden not good enough anymore? Why does your server need apache2? Many people still don't think it's reliable enough for production ues. You can always install a backport (or make a backport) if you really need a newer version of something. I have done so lots of times myself. I know what works in 3.0 stays working and the only stuff that changes is what I want to have changed. How many IT people were annoyed at the constant stream of updated redhat kept releasing (before suddenly deciding no updated of redhat was a better idea and discontinued it). > So, although you may not like it, gentoo isn't just about getting the most optmized system, or the best set of compile flags. Well that's the main argument people have for it (and certainly the worst one given I don't believe it at all based on personaly experience compiling stuff from source). The init scripts system someone else described on the other hand does sound rather nice. Someone should package that for Debian. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:44:04 2005 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:44:04 -0400 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <20050421173336.GN23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1971611970.20050421134404@rogers.com> Before this descends further off-topic, may I ask that the next responder change the subject, as the original post (mine) was about the release of Libranet 3.0. Not Gentoo. Not Ubuntu. Not 'distro A' being somewhat better than 'distro B'. Thanks, Matt Thursday, April 21, 2005, 1:33:36 PM, you wrote: LS> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 05:50:19PM +0000, Jason Shein wrote: >> I think this will sum it up quite well. I am Pro-Debian AND Pro-Gentoo. Each >> has it's time and place. Gentoo is definitely my preferred server environment >> and Debian ( unstable ) for desktop use. For server use there are numerous >> specialty programs that are not available for debian. >> >> Fine. Install from source you say. No problem. LS> No I don't ever say that. I say make a .deb if you want to install a LS> program. Then place it in your personaly archive of packages for easy LS> install and update for all yoru systems. >> But wait.. >> >> Deploy this kind of server to your clients / friends. Try and keep on top of >> security updates. Mailing lists, visiting the software developers web site. A >> real pain and a potential security nightmare if you do not keep on top of it. >> Try selling / Deploying 30 servers, each customized for that particular >> purpose with Debian and custom packages. Either you spend you days looking >> for updates "just to be safe" or find a better method. LS> That's why I will build custom debian packages in my own archive and LS> have all the machiens I maintain use packages from there. I have run 30 LS> servers with Debian, and oh man was that ever a joy (I would hate to LS> have used anything else for it). >> Enter Gentoo - The better method >> >> Benefits of Gentoo: >> >> -Everything is compiled from source LS> Which violates my first principle of using computers: Don't ever do LS> something more than once when it can be avoided. That means write LS> scripts, and let upstream compile it for you when possible. If upstream LS> compiles it once everyone gets the result saving time anc cpu cycles and LS> work for everyone. Overall net saving for the free time of computer LS> users on the planet. Might as well use that spare time doing something LS> productive like improving programs instead of doing the same old compile LS> everyone else has already done. >> -You're in control LS> Hmm, never felt not in control with Debian. >> -Powerful ports-based package manager LS> apt-get/dpkg is quite powerful. >> -Easy package format LS> I find .deb's very easy. >> -Centralized internet repository of packages LS> Have you seen how many mirrors debian has? >> -Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts LS> Now that one you get bonus points for. Debian uses sysv (which is far LS> superior to the crap in BSD and any version of slackware I have ever LS> used) but certainly not the best system one could have. >> Everything is compiled from source LS> Which I consider a major flaw as it violates first principle above. >> -Optimized for your hardware LS> Oh sure, big deal. Show me a measureable improvement in running with LS> compiler optimizations for a specific cpu other than the kernel. i486 LS> is already quite fast on most systems (and glibc doesn't permit 386 LS> optimization anymore). pgcc died out for a reason. It made no real LS> diffence and broke a lot of code since the cpu optimizer was very buggy. >> -Packages are built from the original sources LS> And debian uses original source + patches to make packages install LS> consistently. >> -Fast package updates when new version appear LS> Debian unstable is usually rather fast, but not always. That's a LS> problem of the maintainer, not the distribution. If no one adds the new LS> version to gentoo, how do you get it (besides doing it manually, and LS> then you aren't really taking much advantage of the distribution LS> anyway). >> -Can be turned into binary packages during or after package installation >> >> You're in control >> >> -Minimal installation LS> Debian base install is pretty small. >> -No services are activated by default LS> Seems true of any well designed distribution. >> -No configuration is done automatically LS> Sounds like a flaw rather than a feature. Debian asks me questions LS> about how to configure thigns, and provides sane defaults that I can LS> then change if I want to. I like things to be close to working when I LS> install them. >> -Default configurations are available but have to be performed explicitly >> -Your configurations are protected and will never be overwritten LS> Debian asks if you want to replace a config file. Default is to not LS> replace. >> Powerful package manager >> >> -Packages are first installed in a staging directory, are only then merged >> into your live system >> -Performs installations in a protecting sandbox >> -Safe library updates on a running system >> -Resolves dependencies automatically >> -Keeps you informed about new updates >> -Updates your repository from the internet >> -Allows you to safely remove outdated packages >> -Can create and use binary packages >> -Low-level (developer) tool : ebuild >> -High-level (user) tool : emerge >> -System-wide configuration of your usage preferences (use-flags) >> -Virtual packages LS> Overall I see nothing apt-get doesn't seem to handle. >> Easy package format >> >> -Closely mimics the bash commands you'd execute to install manually >> -Clearly separated installation phases : unpack, compile, install, merge >> -Pre and post actions for each installation phase >> -Additional configuration is done through the definition of variables : >> description, homepage, download url, dependencies, binary compatibility LS> Building from source is for the exception not the rule. Sounds like the LS> same things I would have to do in a debian/rules file to build a .deb >> Centralized internet repository of packages >> >> -Immediate access to new versions LS> As soon as someone adds the new version to the repository. >> -Intuitive synchronization of your local package tree >> -Direct access by developers to the same repository >> >> Intelligent and dependency-based init scripts >> >> -Not numbered >> -Scripts use or need each-other >> -Stopping a service auto-stops all services that need it >> -Services can be paused (stop function in other distributions) >> -Services can't be started or stopped multiple times >> -Easy tool to manage services LS> This so far is the only feature that sounds like a great one. LS> Lennart Sorensen -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:46:25 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:46:25 -0400 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <1971611970.20050421134404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1971611970.20050421134404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050421174625.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 01:44:04PM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > Before this descends further off-topic, may I ask that the next > responder change the subject, as the original post (mine) was about > the release of Libranet 3.0. Not Gentoo. Not Ubuntu. Not 'distro A' > being somewhat better than 'distro B'. Would you prefer "Distribution wars" or "Healthy discussions about the merits of different distributions"? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:54:12 2005 From: zero-zgL5Owk5LsjZLAS6AT9qEw at public.gmane.org (dan sinclair) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Libranet 3.0 out Message-ID: <7591314527380476961VOJOLTCJVU.dsinclair@trekspace.com> > > When I switched from Redhat to Debian, I was open minded and took the > time to find where everything was on Debian, and overall I came to find > Debian more consistent with it's placements (no wonder given they have > policies on where everything should go based on what it is). I can't > imagine going back to redhat anymore. Redhat would move things between > releases quite often. Debian doesn't seem to do that. > It was more a matter of having x amount time and when I tried to do something having to go searching for the answer. I'm not saying redhat does its config right, I'm just saying its easier, for me, to move from redhat to gentoo then redhat to debian. As a friend of mine said, debian laid out similar to solaris, which redhat isn't. > > Well when Debian 3.0 was release, the software in it was quite up to > date and everyone was so happy about it since it was so much newer than > everything in 2.2. So why is it all of a sudden not good enough > anymore? Why does your server need apache2? Many people still don't > think it's reliable enough for production ues. You can always install a > backport (or make a backport) if you really need a newer version of > something. I have done so lots of times myself. I know what works in > 3.0 stays working and the only stuff that changes is what I want to have > changed. How many IT people were annoyed at the constant stream of > updated redhat kept releasing (before suddenly deciding no updated of > redhat was a better idea and discontinued it). > I haven't touch Debian in years, so I'm not really talking about any specifc version. When I used it I just remember having to go to unstable to get anything relitivly new. Maybe that isn't the case now. > Well that's the main argument people have for it (and certainly the > worst one given I don't believe it at all based on personaly experience > compiling stuff from source). The init scripts system someone else > described on the other hand does sound rather nice. Someone should > package that for Debian. :) > I agree, going to gentoo just because you think it will run faster isn't a great idea. As far as I know, gentoo can do binary packages too. Tho I don't think their used as often as compiling everything. dan > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 17:58:40 2005 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 13:58:40 -0400 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <20050421174625.GQ23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1971611970.20050421134404@rogers.com> <20050421174625.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1136824379.20050421135840@rogers.com> I was thinking something like 'Dead-boring distro one-upmanship', but I'll leave it open. M Thursday, April 21, 2005, 1:46:25 PM, you wrote: LS> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 01:44:04PM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: >> Before this descends further off-topic, may I ask that the next >> responder change the subject, as the original post (mine) was about >> the release of Libranet 3.0. Not Gentoo. Not Ubuntu. Not 'distro A' >> being somewhat better than 'distro B'. LS> Would you prefer "Distribution wars" or "Healthy discussions about the LS> merits of different distributions"? LS> Lennart Sorensen -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 18:07:06 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:07:06 -0400 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <1136824379.20050421135840-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1971611970.20050421134404@rogers.com> <20050421174625.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1136824379.20050421135840@rogers.com> Message-ID: On 4/21/05, Matt Cahill wrote: > > I was thinking something like 'Dead-boring distro one-upmanship', > but I'll leave it open. It isn't boring at all. In fact, it is quite interesting and informative, especially since I am considering a new distro. Franco -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 18:16:07 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:16:07 -0400 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <1136824379.20050421135840-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1971611970.20050421134404@rogers.com> <20050421174625.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1136824379.20050421135840@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050421181607.GA4582@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 01:58:40PM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > > I was thinking something like 'Dead-boring distro one-upmanship', > but I'll leave it open. Look at all these valuable experience and collective knowledge that you're getting access to. How much would you pay for such things in the real world? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 18:28:23 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:28:23 -0400 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1971611970.20050421134404@rogers.com> <20050421174625.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1136824379.20050421135840@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4267F0C7.7050207@golden.net> Franco Saliola wrote: >On 4/21/05, Matt Cahill wrote: > > >> I was thinking something like 'Dead-boring distro one-upmanship', >> but I'll leave it open. >> >> > >It isn't boring at all. In fact, it is quite interesting and >informative, especially since I am considering a new distro. > >Franco >-- > > Distro wars are old. The bottom line is......... use what works best for you. Debian and Debian based distro's, Gentoo and Slack all have their place. I choose to support Debian and Debian based. Just my choice. Isn't that what Gnu/Linux is about ? I really like Libranet and Mepis. Paid for both. This topic is moot considering the best distro out there is MS Windows ;P John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 18:58:20 2005 From: steve-UptpDeB91zClXJ0OY9NZ9g at public.gmane.org (Steve Brown) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 14:58:20 -0400 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200504211750.19557.jason@detachednetworks.ca> <20050421173336.GN23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1971611970.20050421134404@rogers.com> <20050421174625.GQ23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1136824379.20050421135840@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20050421185820.GA21997@prayforwind.com> > > I was thinking something like 'Dead-boring distro one-upmanship', > > but I'll leave it open. > > It isn't boring at all. In fact, it is quite interesting and > informative, especially since I am considering a new distro. No one-upmanship; different needs, machines, user attitudes, etc. None of us are exactly the same, e.g. I found Slack simple to install but I absolutely couldn't get Mandrake to do anything more than trash my HD. Yet I know people who succeeded with Mandrake after trying 1/2 dozen others without any luck; two in particular wouldn't switch for the world. I'll save my os-bashing for Microsoft products ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 19:26:20 2005 From: saliola-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Franco Saliola) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:26:20 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? Message-ID: Hello there everyone. In September I took over a part-time system administrator position for small university computer lab. It has about 20 computers. They're all linux machines, running RedHat Enterprise Linux. The position is supposed to be the equivalent of a teaching-assistantship (10-15 hours per week) at the university (I'm a graduate student and avoiding freshman by administering). I basically got the job because no one else wanted it (and because I have some linux experience). Besides a near hard drive failure on the mail/http server, there have not been many problems. In fact, this job has required very little of me, most of my time is spent helping users with specific problems (How do I listen to CBC radio online? How do I set environment variables? How do I print single-sided?) So I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. So here is the question. What should a system administrator be doing? Or what is expected of a system administrator? Do you have any suggestions for resources for a good administrator book (with an emphasize on security preferably)? Thanks for your time, Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 20:37:56 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 20:37:56 +0000 Subject: Appeal - was: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <4267F0C7.7050207-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <4267F0C7.7050207@golden.net> Message-ID: <200504212037.56124.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 21, 2005 06:28 pm, John Myshrall wrote: > Franco Saliola wrote: > >On 4/21/05, Matt Cahill wrote: > >> I was thinking something like 'Dead-boring distro one-upmanship', > >> but I'll leave it open. > > > >It isn't boring at all. In fact, it is quite interesting and > >informative, especially since I am considering a new distro. > > > >Franco > >-- > > Distro wars are old. > > The bottom line is......... use what works best for you. > > Debian and Debian based distro's, Gentoo and Slack all have their place. EXACTLY my point. I use a mix of Debian and Gentoo. Each has their place. All I did personally was answer the question that was asked "Why Gentoo?" I didn't say that gentoo was the only distro to have those features, just that it did. I use debian ( Kubuntu ) on my laptop. Love it. I use Gentoo on my desktop - AthlonXP 2800 - as for perfomance increase.... Openoffice 1.1.4 ( compiled, not binary ) starts in 6 seconds, as an example. I didnt install Gentoo on my desktop for the performance increase. I did it for the package availability, and maintenance. To each his/her own :) -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 19:42:50 2005 From: jamon.camisso-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jamon Camisso) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:42:50 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Franco Saliola" To: Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:26 PM Subject: [TLUG]: what does a system administrator do? > > What should a system administrator be doing? Or what is expected of a > system administrator? > > Do you have any suggestions for resources for a good administrator > book (with an emphasize on security preferably)? Shhhh... You're not supposed to ask these kinds of questions. Places like /. and theregister are what you are supposed to be doing. But seriously. I'm in a position somewhat similar to yours (except that the lab I'm in is MS based which presents the challenge of getting them to switch). Have you got a backup system in place? Checking logs regularly etc.? I think part of the reason that the hours are so few is that, once up and running, things tend to not break too often and require little maintenance (I have the added advantage of having to defragment a terabyte of storage weekly which looks great in the week's report). My 1 cent (I can't afford 2 today, I'm broke). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 19:51:12 2005 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:51:12 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42680430.1070306@utoronto.ca> Franco, There are, from my view, a few things in no particular order that you should be doing but didn't mention. 1. Backups! Maybe they're happening but if they're not, do it. And make sure to test them from time to time to make sure the backups are working as expected. Students (and teachers) will be very grumpy if they loose work/email/whatever because a HD died and you didn't have backup. 2. Software updates. Get on the mailing list of RHEL updates and be sure that you know when security critical package updates are released and that you a) know if it applies to your machines and b) update as soon as possible if it does. 3. System monitoring. Occasional checks on server system logs for unusual behaviour, error messages and other things. Utilities like logwatch are helpful here. These things are, however, largely passive and won't consistently require 10-15 hours per week. Most of your time will likely be spent doing exactly what you have been, helping users. And, every now and then, something will blow up and you'll spend 40 hours one week fixing things. Regards, Marcus Franco Saliola wrote: >Hello there everyone. > >In September I took over a part-time system administrator position for >small university computer lab. It has about 20 computers. They're all >linux machines, running RedHat Enterprise Linux. The position is >supposed to be the equivalent of a teaching-assistantship (10-15 hours >per week) at the university (I'm a graduate student and avoiding >freshman by administering). I basically got the job because no one >else wanted it (and because I have some linux experience). > >Besides a near hard drive failure on the mail/http server, there have >not been many problems. In fact, this job has required very little of >me, most of my time is spent helping users with specific problems (How >do I listen to CBC radio online? How do I set environment variables? >How do I print single-sided?) So I'm wondering if I'm doing something >wrong. So here is the question. > >What should a system administrator be doing? Or what is expected of a >system administrator? > >Do you have any suggestions for resources for a good administrator >book (with an emphasize on security preferably)? > >Thanks for your time, >Franco > >-- >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 19:52:34 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:52:34 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/21/05, Franco Saliola wrote: > Hello there everyone. > > In September I took over a part-time system administrator position for > small university computer lab. It has about 20 computers. They're all > linux machines, running RedHat Enterprise Linux. The position is > supposed to be the equivalent of a teaching-assistantship (10-15 hours > per week) at the university (I'm a graduate student and avoiding > freshman by administering). I basically got the job because no one > else wanted it (and because I have some linux experience). > > Besides a near hard drive failure on the mail/http server, there have > not been many problems. In fact, this job has required very little of > me, most of my time is spent helping users with specific problems (How > do I listen to CBC radio online? How do I set environment variables? > How do I print single-sided?) So I'm wondering if I'm doing something > wrong. So here is the question. > > What should a system administrator be doing? Or what is expected of a > system administrator? > > Do you have any suggestions for resources for a good administrator > book (with an emphasize on security preferably)? > A book that I recently got in at work that does a pretty good job of providing an overview is Mark Burgess' book, _Principles of Network and System Administration_. It has a fairly "principled" perspective, presenting both suggested rules, as well as why it came up with them (so that you know the degree to which you might not want to believe in them ;-)). The author is also the author of the "cfengine" system configuration tool, and presents some material on how to use it. I was a little disappointed in it not being filled with cfengine recipes for managing all the things it suggested needed managing, but there you go :-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 19:55:14 2005 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:55:14 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? In-Reply-To: <001701c54623$6b22ce50$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <42663543.4080100@rogers.com> <001901c54598$bcf3ffa0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050420121457.GA18144@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4267074D.7070406@rogers.com> <001701c54623$6b22ce50$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: You might also look into http://tpctl.sourceforge.net/ which is designed to interface with the BIOS. (it's fun turning the ThinkLight on and off via software!) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 19:53:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 15:53:11 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? Message-ID: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do for me?" This was a difficult question to answer. There are things that TLUG does, of course, such as - presentation by speaker - beer - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. Social component of TLUG meetings works only for core people, and even this works only up to certain size. This is why TLUG has not grown, considering Toronto's population and increasing Linux awareness. I got the feeling that everyone at the show sensed that Linux explosion is about to happen, and were trying to position themselves. We also need to get our acts together. With that in mind, I would like some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. 1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. The collective experience and knowledge of TLUG members are pretty impressive. There are some things that each person knows quite well. And, it would be nice to see if we can arrange some kind of "tutorial" for the benefit of others. A narrowly focused subtopic would be better suited. For example, Python is too big to chew in one sitting, but Python interface to PostgreSQL might be narrow enough for single tutorial, ie. - modules you use, - parameters available, - syntax, and sample usages So, do you prefer short tutorials on various topics? 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? They do that in churches (I've heard), so I shouldn't be accused of being a Hun anti-christ or something. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 20:04:02 2005 From: psema4-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (psema4) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:04:02 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: <42680430.1070306-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <42680430.1070306@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <99a6c38f0504211304af16f29@mail.gmail.com> > 3. System monitoring. Occasional checks on server system logs for > unusual behaviour, error messages and other things. Utilities like > logwatch are helpful here. Early on as an admin, and while I was still learning basic *nix concepts, I took up learning perl as way to help automate monitoring. For example, I wrote a couple of very simple scripts that ran basic command-line commands, reformatted their outputs, and then had them email the results to me on a daily basis through Cron. Some of them I also have producing HTML reports for others in our IT department to follow up on. (Eg. disk space usage) Learning scripting might be a way to eat up some time and still be constructive. (Like /. is not??? ;-) -- - SGE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 20:15:40 2005 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050421195311.GA4615-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, William Park wrote: > 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the > meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? They do that in > churches (I've heard), so I shouldn't be accused of being a Hun > anti-christ or something. And what would you do with that '$1 from each person'? Would you give it to the presenter? I have done a few presentations and would only do so for free if people can come and listen for free. Terry -- Terry Tanski, BSc RHCE Phone: (416) 863-2126 CNW Group Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 20:26:55 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:26:55 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/21/05, Franco Saliola wrote: > > What should a system administrator be doing? Or what is expected of a > system administrator? > All I can say on this is that I have had some sysadmin friends (I wouldn't qualify as one, but I've sat in that chair..). A few things come to mind: 1) Keep the setup fresh in your mind and seize opportunities to improve it. Tinker with new ideas and technologies. Hopefully it's part of your hobby so it'll be fun, but it's important to be "in touch" so your abilities on the job continually improve. 2) Ensure the general safety and health of the system now, so that later on your "emergencies" will be things you planned for. Go over backups, logs and such. Try to link this chore with the exploration in #1 to keep it fun. 3) Always have something on your plate so you can "seem busy". Even if you're just hacking around with a backup script you've been interested in. Be willing to drop what you're doing to help someone else. Be willing to walk around and be enthusiastic about "face-time". Now.. I'm not a sysadmin, but I've known a few. Because I'm generally interested, I've paid attention to their mistakes. It's one of the ways I try to learn. In particular, I got the job I have because the "sysadmin-type" guy failed at his, and because I exploited an understanding of the way my work environment works. Anyone who came to the last meeting may have noted that my comments suggested awareness of this. (part of the junior guy vs senior guy discussion -- juniors working hard because they're thown into the fire.. they're paid less, etc) While the senior in question may have been legitimately exploring and playing around, it wasn't close enough to home.. it wasn't quite "topical". So his non-topic exploration wasn't something that he could be proudly tinkering with when the boss drops by to ask what he's up to. Now to you and I, even something peripherally interesting is still valuable effort for our techniness. Heck, even reading a forum may be way more valuable to us than the boss could understand. The boss wanted to see effort without having to learn the entire role to understand the underlying value. He didn't really care why and how.. he just wanted to know that his money wasn't being spent on someone sitting around "doing nothing". For #1 he wasn't on-topic with his hobbyest-style meandering. For #2 he wasn't aggressively seeking improvements to the existing system. For #3 he didn't understand the value of dropping everything to handle someone else's "emergency". I've learned that I can be perceived as something of a guru simply because I'm generally interested.. and while I always have *something* to do (.. even reading email intently counts, although I have other tasks to swap around to if I need to maintain another appearance).. while I always have something to do I'm willing to dump it to help another. -- Ok, so that's a nice story. I'll try to make it relevant now. What I believe an admin ought to be doing is generally fiddling in their spare time. I define spare time as the time "between people". This is the time when you play with logs, deal with backups.. break apart computers and such. Keep busy even with little things.. have more than one task to switch between so you're never bored or out of things to do. This helps you when critical things happen, because you've probably already idly played with all kinds of things related to the problem. That spirit of fiddling helps you be perceived as hard-working and effortful. When someone looks at you, you're always working on something.. something beyond their understanding probably, and so a respectful air will surround you. When a person drops in, pause for a moment to dump all non-critical tasks (i.e. your spare time stuff) and be willing to help them. There is a socialness to this, where you are seen as enthusiastic to be helpful. This is important for your perception. Try not to receive people interrupting you with too grumpy an outlook.. I've been bit by that one, people get very scared to "bother" you, and boss-types will not look kindly at your being difficult at what they see as your primary role. Of course it's not a real problem to drop things to help someone.. but in their eyes you're doing them a favour because they noticed that you had things to do. This is an interesting thing I've noticed.. where there is a balance between eagerness and busyness. You'll inevitably have to take a moment to pause what you were doing, collect your thoughts or write a quick note.. and this will further develop the (true!) notion that you were doing something important. Helping others perceive that you are doing legitimate work is important.. because when you really are doing something critical, and sometimes that's a hush-hush critical thing (i.e. from a flub that you are hastily fixing) then you really do need to be able to take some time to finish things off before you rush to their "emergency". So this is a bit of the philosophy and psychology of what I've learned. I've found that there's a kind of work ethic and mystique which work well together. The work ethic means that your spare time is always productive and rewarding. You get to research and tinker as well as legitimately improve random nearby things. The social element means that you get to broaden your circle of contacts and have rewarding face time with all kinds of people who will end up really liking you for what they perceive as value in your effort. --- Pardon the rant.. but that stuff's been on my mind for a couple of years now. Again, I'm not an admin.. I just play one at work. It's small business full of hopelessly non-tech types. There are even some "techs" but.. uh.. we stuck them in sales and marketing, and it turns out that I'm several orders more tech than they, and they like it that way. Everyone wants to perceive me as being better than them in order to offload the burden of worrying about tech crap. Of course, things are getting wierd because we now have two other tech types who I like a lot.. and we're now drawing our various borders so we can have specialties between us. It's working out surprisingly well, thanks to a fairly functional company culture. Honestly, I'm a tech in denial. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 20:39:58 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:39:58 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050421195311.GA4615-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/21/05, William Park wrote: > > Social component of TLUG meetings works only for core people, and even > this works only up to certain size. The social component is what I came for. For me, the real meeting happens after hours, where conversation is stimulated by the combination of the meeting's abstract ideas, the collection of like-minded people.. and, uh, beer. ;) However, this isn't a concern of the meeting itself.. although the meeting should have lots of cool abstract ideas to chat about over a beer afterwards. =) > We also need to get our acts together. With that in mind, I would like > some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. > > 1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. > The collective experience and knowledge of TLUG members are pretty > impressive. There are some things that each person knows quite > well. And, it would be nice to see if we can arrange some kind of > "tutorial" for the benefit of others. > > A narrowly focused subtopic would be better suited. For example, > Python is too big to chew in one sitting, but Python interface to > PostgreSQL might be narrow enough for single tutorial, ie. > - modules you use, > - parameters available, > - syntax, and sample usages > > So, do you prefer short tutorials on various topics? The obvious problem with a tutorial style of things is that the topic will inevitably only appeal to certain people. While I'd probably come to meetings whose topic I'm completely clueless about, some people may not. So your usergroup population problem will continue. > 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the > meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? They do that in > churches (I've heard), so I shouldn't be accused of being a Hun > anti-christ or something. It doesn't matter if I buy people a beer after or donate a bit of case during a meeting.. it's for a good cause and I'm all for it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 20:47:32 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 16:47:32 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42681164.7000604@md5.ca> >And what would you do with that '$1 from each person'? Would you give it >to the presenter? I have done a few presentations and would only do so >for free if people can come and listen for free. > >Terry > > > Hi, no it will go to the tlug account, since TLUG is official non-profit organization, and the money earned will used to promote TLUG further. Such account will pay for things like power at the linux world show. later, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 21:00:13 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:00:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > And what would you do with that '$1 from each person'? Would you give it > to the presenter? I have done a few presentations and would only do so > for free if people can come and listen for free. I don't have a problem giving a talk for free if the audience is paying money to a non-profit (or a not-for-profit) but IMHO it is more trouble than it is worth to chase people for $1 each meeting. Better to charge a yearly free IMHO. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 21:23:17 2005 From: mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 17:23:17 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1114118597.10465.236.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com> On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 17:00 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Better to charge a yearly free IMHO. Isn't it yearly free already? Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 22:01:04 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:01:04 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <1114118597.10465.236.camel-hSSUUFrJ1eHKo1lsMQEj1AC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1114118597.10465.236.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com> Message-ID: <426822A0.6060007@golden.net> Michael Hill wrote: >On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 17:00 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > >>Better to charge a yearly free IMHO. >> >> > >Isn't it yearly free already? > >Mike > > > As an infrequent attendee to the meetings I would rather contribute yearly. On a side note I appreciate all the effort that many of the volunteers and companies put in / supply to make this all happen. :-) John . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Apr 21 22:01:49 2005 From: rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 18:01:49 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050421195311.GA4615-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <002001c546bd$b77ad190$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com> I like the idea of tutorials. I would like to see tutorials that are not too specific. The tutorials don't have to nail down a topic, it could be some kind of sketch with beginner concepts right up to advanced - something for everyone. There is a huge pool of talent among members - I look forward to taking some tutorials followed by beer. Best, Robert Beginner running Mailman/Postfix, Mambo, and Apache. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of William Park Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:53 PM To: TLUG-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do for me?" This was a difficult question to answer. There are things that TLUG does, of course, such as - presentation by speaker - beer - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. Social component of TLUG meetings works only for core people, and even this works only up to certain size. This is why TLUG has not grown, considering Toronto's population and increasing Linux awareness. I got the feeling that everyone at the show sensed that Linux explosion is about to happen, and were trying to position themselves. We also need to get our acts together. With that in mind, I would like some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. 1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. The collective experience and knowledge of TLUG members are pretty impressive. There are some things that each person knows quite well. And, it would be nice to see if we can arrange some kind of "tutorial" for the benefit of others. A narrowly focused subtopic would be better suited. For example, Python is too big to chew in one sitting, but Python interface to PostgreSQL might be narrow enough for single tutorial, ie. - modules you use, - parameters available, - syntax, and sample usages So, do you prefer short tutorials on various topics? 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? They do that in churches (I've heard), so I shouldn't be accused of being a Hun anti-christ or something. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 01:09:49 2005 From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:09:49 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421000701.GB19063@prayforwind.com> Message-ID: <200504212109.49445.mervc@eol.ca> On Thursday 21 April 2005 02:05, Franco Saliola wrote: > On 4/20/05, Steve Brown wrote: > > I'm trying to decide whether to try Arch or Ubuntu. Probably both... > > I'm looking at some distros as well, and I'll probably install early > next week, so I'd like to hear about your decision and experience. > Ubuntu and Gentoo are on the short list. Both are attractive. I > haven't looked at Arch yet. I'll look it up. Okay, looked it up. It > has some interesting aspects as well. > I have tried both Ubuntu (and Kubuntu since KDE is my desktop of choice) and don't think much of their admin system. A lot of people can live with it but for me it just was too oddball. There was something else that displeased me, [ which has skipped my mind at the moment]. After several years with Libranet and Debian I am used to Debian and have settled with Mepis for awhile at least. The contribution price is reasonable which I can't say for Libra 3.0. Cheerio -- Merv Curley Toronto, Ont. Can Mepis Linux KDE 3.3.1 Desktop KMail 1.7.1 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 01:09:49 2005 From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:09:49 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <42684EDD.2010404@quadratic.net> One point of view: www.sage.org david Franco Saliola wrote: >Hello there everyone. > >In September I took over a part-time system administrator position for >small university computer lab. It has about 20 computers. They're all >linux machines, running RedHat Enterprise Linux. The position is >supposed to be the equivalent of a teaching-assistantship (10-15 hours >per week) at the university (I'm a graduate student and avoiding >freshman by administering). I basically got the job because no one >else wanted it (and because I have some linux experience). > >Besides a near hard drive failure on the mail/http server, there have >not been many problems. In fact, this job has required very little of >me, most of my time is spent helping users with specific problems (How >do I listen to CBC radio online? How do I set environment variables? >How do I print single-sided?) So I'm wondering if I'm doing something >wrong. So here is the question. > >What should a system administrator be doing? Or what is expected of a >system administrator? > >Do you have any suggestions for resources for a good administrator >book (with an emphasize on security preferably)? > >Thanks for your time, >Franco > >-- >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Let one walk alone, commiting no sin with few wishes, like an elephant in the forest. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 01:16:17 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:16:17 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <000a01c54688$dc659ab0$6c486480@5042> References: <989904033.20050418111906@rogers.com> <20050421132746.GK23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000a01c54688$dc659ab0$6c486480@5042> Message-ID: <200504212116.17885.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On April 21, 2005 11:43 am, Jamon Camisso wrote: > The Gentoo phenomenon is best summed up on this site: > http://funroll-loops.org/ That's great stuff ... unfortunately I manage a SuSE network (not Debian) so I don't have time to read it all ;-) The linked site, "Mandrake Expatriate Syndrome" is fabulous as well (see http://greenfly.org/mes.html). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 01:20:50 2005 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:20:50 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050421195311.GA4615-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42685172.9040101@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do > for me?" This was a difficult question to answer. There are things > that TLUG does, of course, such as > - presentation by speaker > - beer > - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list > But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give > shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your > business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. Free beer, as in free software. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 01:51:04 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 21:51:04 -0400 Subject: Libranet 3.0 out In-Reply-To: <20050421174223.GP23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <8501034423516755919PSYJTYDUOR.dsinclair@trekspace.com> <20050421174223.GP23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200504212151.05024.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On April 21, 2005 01:42 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > compiling stuff from source). ?The init scripts system someone else > described on the other hand does sound rather nice. ?Someone should > package that for Debian. :) There was a guy working on alternative init systems for Debian a while back. He gave an interesting presentation at Debconf2 (held at York). No idea if he's progressed since then but you can read his paper at http://people.debian.org/~hmh/debconf2/debconf2-initscripts-bkg.pdf ... perhaps you can help him out ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jeff-/qp0DKbAOldBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 02:32:04 2005 From: jeff-/qp0DKbAOldBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (jeff-/qp0DKbAOldBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 22:32:04 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20050422023234.D16B31215B9@acheron.ss.org> #1 rule, don't ever get bored :) Most of the time it's routine checking logs, performing updates, backup, budgeting, repair, listen to users complaints, etc.. and helping other users cope with their problems. Other than that I spend time finding ways to better the current systems. Also, like what they say make sure you're ready to drop whatever you are doing i.e. not critical to help out a fellow employee. Make sure you get a lot of face time just roam around and ask if they need any help. Also, be prepared to spend long hours fixing problems :) Jeff -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Franco Saliola Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:26 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: what does a system administrator do? Hello there everyone. In September I took over a part-time system administrator position for small university computer lab. It has about 20 computers. They're all linux machines, running RedHat Enterprise Linux. The position is supposed to be the equivalent of a teaching-assistantship (10-15 hours per week) at the university (I'm a graduate student and avoiding freshman by administering). I basically got the job because no one else wanted it (and because I have some linux experience). Besides a near hard drive failure on the mail/http server, there have not been many problems. In fact, this job has required very little of me, most of my time is spent helping users with specific problems (How do I listen to CBC radio online? How do I set environment variables? How do I print single-sided?) So I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong. So here is the question. What should a system administrator be doing? Or what is expected of a system administrator? Do you have any suggestions for resources for a good administrator book (with an emphasize on security preferably)? Thanks for your time, Franco -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 03:31:44 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:31:44 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? Message-ID: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Hi all, I really, really hope this doesn't become an emacs vs. vi thread... I don't want to use something that takes a religious convertion and weeks or study to use. :p I've been very happily using 'nedit' for my so-called coding for some time now, despite lacking a couple functions that would otherwise be "nice to have". The biggest feature I wish was there was a way to collapse blocks (like if/then, while/until, subroutines, etc). That isn't what brings me here though... I've started using unicode (french symbols and Japanese kana/kanji characters) in my program (I'm working on the translation code). I very quickly found that nedit will show anything other than ASCII as garbage. Gedit will display the characters but as often as not I get an error when trying to save files with international characters in it. I am hoping someone here might suggest a replacement text editor. The only key things I need are; line numbering, cursor position, unicode support and code highlighting (html/perl/javascript - preferably customizable). "Nice to have" would be the code block collapsing but I've lived without that until now so no biggy. I have a modest laptop, a P3 1GHz w/ 512MB RAM so nothing to fancy. I like a lot of screen real estate and most of the programs I've seen that are advertised as "programming" programs are very ... full. I like very minimal. I also don't like Gedit's behavior of creating a ~ file for each file I edit, even after I save the file... One of the key reasons I used nedit over gedit in fact. Any suggestion will be very much appreciated! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 04:13:42 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:13:42 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050421195311.GA4615-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/21/05, William Park wrote: > One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do > for me?" This was a difficult question to answer. There are things > that TLUG does, of course, such as > - presentation by speaker > - beer > - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list There, that wasn't so difficult to answer, was it? ;-) All provided free of charge (except for the beer), by people volunteering their time and knowledge. > But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give > shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your > business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. As it rightly should be. People want to see some return on their investment, on their dollar. Currently, the investment is time, the time we take to go to the meetings, listen to the speaker, and learn something new. Maybe that will lead to them being a speaker, or contributing in some other way. What expenses are there on the normal TLUG meetings? The facilities are free, and the speakers are volunteers. Where are the costs? I don't agree with your statement about people not caring about expenese. I feel that they just don't know where the money is going. If you actually had a plan , a "business case" if you will, that outlines what this membership money is going for, and people can readily see it, then I think you wouldn't have a problem with people paying a membership fee for TLUG. The problem is that there is no plan, at least, none that has been communicated to the TLUG members so far. And by members, I mean the only real list of people who participate in TLUG, this mailing list. For example, the membership form states that there is a "Constitution", and that by becoming a member, one has to abide by it. But every time I ask someone about it, where can I get a copy of it to read, I either get the "I dunno" shrug, or a "yeah, that's a good idea, we should make that available." Not once has any kind of statement of direction been posted here to the "real" TLUG members. Sure, I have heard of things like the need to incorporate TLUG, or paying for things like power at Linuxworld or other conferences. But I have never seen anything here on this list. Nor have any solicitations for the so-called Executive Board been posted here either. To me, it seems like a small number of people in TLUG have some sort of vision as to where the LUG should go, but are too afraid to share it with the rest of us. Maybe they are afraid of the debate that will undoubtedly arise. I don't know. This whole thing should really be the topic of a TLUG meeting, or at least half. Maybe a tech talk at the start, and then a more "administrative" or "directions" talk at the end. Or even a forum where people can give suggestions or ideas for improvement or future events. > Social component of TLUG meetings works only for core people, and even > this works only up to certain size. This is why TLUG has not grown, > considering Toronto's population and increasing Linux awareness. To be frank, there is no real social component of TLUG. Yeah, sure, you can go out to the pub after the meeting. But many members have families, jobs, and lives that they have to get back to, or have other reasons why they can't stay late. The social part should be a component of the meetings. Maybe not every meeting, but at least every other one. The reason why you have only "core" people socializing is that no one knows who anyone else is! This is the impression I always got. Some people find it very intimidating; I know I have in the past. The other problem, mostly rectified these days, is the bad reputation that TLUG has regarding people asking questions on the mailing list, and the way certain members treat the speakers. I know that the worst offenders no longer frequent the list, but there was considerable damage done. I bet alot of people don't bother getting involved because they figure the list is full of self-righteous nerds who's first response to a question is "RTFM you newbie!", or "Get lost, you don't know anything! I've been using Linux since ." Not exactly the best etiquette or attitude for a user group. > We also need to get our acts together. With that in mind, I would like > some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. > > 1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. > The collective experience and knowledge of TLUG members are pretty > impressive. There are some things that each person knows quite > well. And, it would be nice to see if we can arrange some kind of > "tutorial" for the benefit of others. You mean some sort of "HOW-TO" or cookbook style presentation? Where you outline the main points of how to get something to work, or configure something, or install something? I like it. > A narrowly focused subtopic would be better suited. For example, > Python is too big to chew in one sitting, but Python interface to > PostgreSQL might be narrow enough for single tutorial, ie. > - modules you use, > - parameters available, > - syntax, and sample usages Sure. It also helps if it's something more of a "practical" nature, that people can relate to, and perhaps apply to something. > 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the > meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? They do that in > churches (I've heard), so I shouldn't be accused of being a Hun > anti-christ or something. Before you start asking for money, come up with a plan for this money, and state it publicly, either to the list, or on the web site, or both. What about a swap meet? We can all get together, bring all the computer crap we have stored in our closets and basements, and trade with each other! Just like the old TPUG swap meets of my youth; they were great! Also, what about a summer barbeque? A social gathering, somewhere like Center Island? Burgers, hot dogs, pop, and Linux? pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 04:15:16 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:15:16 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi Madison. Try Yudit: pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 04:18:32 2005 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 00:18:32 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42687B18.2040606@almatau.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I really, really hope this doesn't become an emacs vs. vi thread... I > don't want to use something that takes a religious convertion and weeks > or study to use. :p > > I've been very happily using 'nedit' for my so-called coding for some > time now, despite lacking a couple functions that would otherwise be > "nice to have". The biggest feature I wish was there was a way to > collapse blocks (like if/then, while/until, subroutines, etc). That > isn't what brings me here though... > > I've started using unicode (french symbols and Japanese kana/kanji > characters) in my program (I'm working on the translation code). I very > quickly found that nedit will show anything other than ASCII as garbage. > Gedit will display the characters but as often as not I get an error > when trying to save files with international characters in it. > > I am hoping someone here might suggest a replacement text editor. The > only key things I need are; line numbering, cursor position, unicode > support and code highlighting (html/perl/javascript - preferably > customizable). "Nice to have" would be the code block collapsing but > I've lived without that until now so no biggy. > > I have a modest laptop, a P3 1GHz w/ 512MB RAM so nothing to fancy. I > like a lot of screen real estate and most of the programs I've seen that > are advertised as "programming" programs are very ... full. I like very > minimal. I also don't like Gedit's behavior of creating a ~ file > for each file I edit, even after I save the file... One of the key > reasons I used nedit over gedit in fact. > > Any suggestion will be very much appreciated! > You can still use nedit or whatever programmer's editor you like, if you don't put any unicode into your code. Read about I15n. Shortly, instead of 'print "Hello world"' in Japanese, insert 'print HELLO_WORLD', and define HELLO_WORLD constant in a file separately from the program code. Those files can be created with any non-programming editor which supports Unicode. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 05:16:09 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <1114118597.10465.236.camel-hSSUUFrJ1eHKo1lsMQEj1AC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <1114118597.10465.236.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Michael Hill wrote: > On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 17:00 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > Better to charge a yearly free IMHO. > > Isn't it yearly free already? Yes but this only really just started (afaik). I've been involved with TLUG for 2-3 years. I've heard whispers of membership fees but first saw money change hands at the recent LinuxWorld booth. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 05:24:26 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:24:26 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <42688A8A.3080001@md5.ca> Paul Mora wrote: >On 4/21/05, William Park wrote: > > >>One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do >>for me?" This was a difficult question to answer. There are things >>that TLUG does, of course, such as >> - presentation by speaker >> - beer >> - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list >> >> > >There, that wasn't so difficult to answer, was it? ;-) All provided >free of charge (except for the beer), by people volunteering their >time and knowledge. > > > >>But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give >>shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your >>business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. >> >> > >As it rightly should be. People want to see some return on their >investment, on their dollar. Currently, the investment is time, the >time we take to go to the meetings, listen to the speaker, and learn >something new. Maybe that will lead to them being a speaker, or >contributing in some other way. > >What expenses are there on the normal TLUG meetings? The facilities >are free, and the speakers are volunteers. Where are the costs? > > We do not have the facility for free at this time. Currently we are trying rectify our much less then legal status. Incidentals, if you have read for the power at the show must be paid out of the pocket. There is no return on investment. >I don't agree with your statement about people not caring about >expenese. I feel that they just don't know where the money is going. >If you actually had a plan , a "business case" if you will, that >outlines what this membership money is going for, and people can >readily see it, then I think you wouldn't have a problem with people >paying a membership fee for TLUG. The problem is that there is no >plan, at least, none that has been communicated to the TLUG members so >far. And by members, I mean the only real list of people who >participate in TLUG, this mailing list. > > That is going to be ironed out within 2-3 weeks, as the turn out at the show was great we can now plan for things that *DO* cost in Toronto, which are free everywhere else in Canada. Like rooms for meetings, usage of parks for group picnics. Unfortunately Toronto as a whole is not liberal with money, because in some part its culture and in some its city lack of money(as I was explained). So things cost in this city... If you wish to provide sufficent space accessible to TLUG members, be our guest. >For example, the membership form states that there is a >"Constitution", and that by becoming a member, one has to abide by it. > But every time I ask someone about it, where can I get a copy of it >to read, I either get the "I dunno" shrug, or a "yeah, that's a good >idea, we should make that available." > > Lack of formality has come to immediate attention this Linux world , those responsible are working out details as we speak. Should be done in couple of weeks, not entirely unreasonable. >Not once has any kind of statement of direction been posted here to >the "real" TLUG members. Sure, I have heard of things like the need >to incorporate TLUG, or paying for things like power at Linuxworld or >other conferences. But I have never seen anything here on this list. >Nor have any solicitations for the so-called Executive Board been >posted here either. > > >To me, it seems like a small number of people in TLUG have some sort >of vision as to where the LUG should go, but are too afraid to share >it with the rest of us. Maybe they are afraid of the debate that will >undoubtedly arise. I don't know. > > We are working on it. >This whole thing should really be the topic of a TLUG meeting, or at >least half. Maybe a tech talk at the start, and then a more >"administrative" or "directions" talk at the end. Or even a forum >where people can give suggestions or ideas for improvement or future >events. > > This is what is emailing list for. But, there will be formal framework be put forth and things such as official elections of Acting Director will be held. Such director shall represent views of the >>Social component of TLUG meetings works only for core people, and even >>this works only up to certain size. This is why TLUG has not grown, >>considering Toronto's population and increasing Linux awareness. >> >> > >To be frank, there is no real social component of TLUG. Yeah, sure, >you can go out to the pub after the meeting. But many members have >families, jobs, and lives that they have to get back to, or have other >reasons why they can't stay late. The social part should be a >component of the meetings. Maybe not every meeting, but at least >every other one. The reason why you have only "core" people >socializing is that no one knows who anyone else is! This is the >impression I always got. Some people find it very intimidating; I >know I have in the past. > > Thats SO Torontonian. Stop projecting your complexes onto everybody else. People who want to go out will , and will have great time. If you don't want to, or don't have great time meeting people that may/do have similar interestes you're welcome to reserve to yourself. No one will have problem with that. >The other problem, mostly rectified these days, is the bad reputation >that TLUG has regarding people asking questions on the mailing list, >and the way certain members treat the speakers. I know that the worst >offenders no longer frequent the list, but there was considerable >damage done. I bet alot of people don't bother getting involved >because they figure the list is full of self-righteous nerds who's >first response to a question is "RTFM you newbie!", or "Get lost, you >don't know anything! I've been using Linux since ." > Not exactly the best etiquette or attitude for a user group. > > That is being rectified. This kind of thing is common on every forum, just sit back and take it philosphically. Shit happens, there will always be stupid people, know your purpose. And know this, complaining on public forum does score only negative karma, if you are into that sort of thing. Instead say something constructive. Maybe there is too much of a westcoaster in me. There we tend not to focus on depressing things, just solve them. As in VanLUG and VLUG. >>We also need to get our acts together. With that in mind, I would like >>some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. >> >>1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. >> The collective experience and knowledge of TLUG members are pretty >> impressive. There are some things that each person knows quite >> well. And, it would be nice to see if we can arrange some kind of >> "tutorial" for the benefit of others. >> >> > >You mean some sort of "HOW-TO" or cookbook style presentation? Where >you outline the main points of how to get something to work, or >configure something, or install something? I like it. > > Anything really goes. People shall not be discouraged from making a presentation. If two people want to make presentation, split the time and have people make more effective presentations. VLUG had it this way. 2 presentations at the time, it was quite effective. >> A narrowly focused subtopic would be better suited. For example, >> Python is too big to chew in one sitting, but Python interface to >> PostgreSQL might be narrow enough for single tutorial, ie. >> - modules you use, >> - parameters available, >> - syntax, and sample usages >> >> > > > >Before you start asking for money, come up with a plan for this money, >and state it publicly, either to the list, or on the web site, or >both. > > That will be squared out very soon, most likely will take very standard form, as any other public organization. Fact that we had alot of registrations, motivated a group of us to get our act together. >What about a swap meet? We can all get together, bring all the >computer crap we have stored in our closets and basements, and trade >with each other! Just like the old TPUG swap meets of my youth; they >were great! > > I'm in except that i don't have any old stuff :-( >Also, what about a summer barbeque? A social gathering, somewhere >like Center Island? Burgers, hot dogs, pop, and Linux? > > > That costs money, to organized a picnic in public park. Can be organized at someone's house, who has sufficent size back yard. pavel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 05:32:51 2005 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 01:32:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I'm speaking mostly the original poster here... On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Sy wrote: > 1) > Keep the setup fresh in your mind and seize opportunities to improve Or even better - document it :) Seriously. So many systems are not properly documented. It will come back to haunt you. > 2) > Ensure the general safety and health of the system now, so that later > on your "emergencies" will be things you planned for. Go over Yes - Backups - test the backups - have a disaster recovery plan. If you find you are not confident in some area (like disaster recovery) don't be afraid to tell your bosses and recommend you get some professional help in that area. This is part of the ethics of system administration, and is also useful if there is a problem later :) Hopefully they will accept your request and will allow the problem to be fixed. > 3) > Always have something on your plate so you can "seem busy". Even if > you're just hacking around with a backup script you've been interested > in. Be willing to drop what you're doing to help someone else. Be > willing to walk around and be enthusiastic about "face-time". Yes, don't be a BOFH :) > For #1 he wasn't on-topic with his hobbyest-style meandering. > For #2 he wasn't aggressively seeking improvements to the existing system. > For #3 he didn't understand the value of dropping everything to handle > someone else's "emergency". Yes, in the end system administration is a service profession, either to external clients or coworkers. > When a person drops in, pause for a moment to dump all non-critical > tasks (i.e. your spare time stuff) and be willing to help them. There > is a socialness to this, where you are seen as enthusiastic to be > helpful. This is important for your perception. Try not to receive I agree. To draw from my experience - like many techs I love technology. When users visit or call me with a problem I se it as an interesting challenge. This results in people seeing me as eager to help (which is true, I love a good challenge). This has been a huge career booster over the years. There is a another plus - sometimes you are working on an urgent problem which must take precedence. If you are normally eager to help then users will take it seriously when you advise you have an urgent problem and will get to them when you can. > Of course, things are getting wierd because we now have two other tech > types who I like a lot.. and we're now drawing our various borders so > we can have specialties between us. It's working out surprisingly > well, thanks to a fairly functional company culture. I'd still recommend multiple staff be familiar with the different areas lest one staff member being sick causes a big problem. See also "Truck Number" in the jargon file. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: +1-416-669-3073 Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. Contributing Member of Software in the Public Interest (http://www.spi-inc.org) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 06:06:11 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 02:06:11 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 12:13:42AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > On 4/21/05, William Park wrote: > > But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give > > shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your > > business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. > > As it rightly should be. People want to see some return on their > investment, on their dollar. Currently, the investment is time, the > time we take to go to the meetings, listen to the speaker, and learn > something new. Maybe that will lead to them being a speaker, or > contributing in some other way. > > What expenses are there on the normal TLUG meetings? The facilities > are free, and the speakers are volunteers. Where are the costs? 1. Facility is the main thing. It's free, only because we're trespassing on UofT property. 2. Projector is another big issue. It's free, only because we harasse Chris with threat of ex-communication. 3. Then, there are minor issue of cost for booth at trade show, flyers, labels, CDs, plastic laminators, food for the volunteers, etc. However, I personally think that TLUG expenses are internal matter, and shouldn't be aired in public. We come across as petty beggers (which we are). :-) > This whole thing should really be the topic of a TLUG meeting, or at > least half. Maybe a tech talk at the start, and then a more > "administrative" or "directions" talk at the end. Or even a forum > where people can give suggestions or ideas for improvement or future > events. There are issues which concern only the paying members. But, I take your point. You have to recognize that TLUG didn't have any structure until a year ago. Before that, we were just a get-together of Linux guys. > > The other problem, mostly rectified these days, is the bad reputation > that TLUG has regarding people asking questions on the mailing list, > and the way certain members treat the speakers. I know that the worst Interrupting the speaker is one thing that we're trying to clamp down. But, it also depends on the nature of talk. If the talk is about how Microsoft is crappy, then trolls come alive. However, if we hold more practical tutorials, closer to code or scripts, then the smart-ass snipes will die down. And, the discussion will be about code or scripts (as it should be). > > > We also need to get our acts together. With that in mind, I would like > > some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. > > 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the > > meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? They do that in > > churches (I've heard), so I shouldn't be accused of being a Hun > > anti-christ or something. > > Before you start asking for money, come up with a plan for this money, > and state it publicly, either to the list, or on the web site, or > both. > > What about a swap meet? We can all get together, bring all the > computer crap we have stored in our closets and basements, and trade > with each other! Just like the old TPUG swap meets of my youth; they > were great! We can't afford location and/or permit. We're back to money. :-) > > Also, what about a summer barbeque? A social gathering, somewhere > like Center Island? Burgers, hot dogs, pop, and Linux? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 11:21:59 2005 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:21:59 -0400 Subject: CRT display on Thinkpad? References: <1200.216.154.13.111.1111883941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20050401210249.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <001e01c53725$9afe93a0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050402220511.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <000401c54550$d0925b80$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <42663543.4080100@rogers.com> <001901c54598$bcf3ffa0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> <20050420121457.GA18144@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <4267074D.7070406@rogers.com> <001701c54623$6b22ce50$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Message-ID: <001201c5472d$92052bc0$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Taavi Burns" >To: >Sent: Thursday, 21 April, 2005 15:55 >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: CRT display on Thinkpad? > >You might also look into http://tpctl.sourceforge.net/ which is >designed to interface with the BIOS. (it's fun turning the ThinkLight >on and off via software!) Cool! Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 11:36:34 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 07:36:34 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1114169794.31703.8.camel@holden.weait.net> On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 23:31, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am hoping someone here might suggest a replacement text editor. The > only key things I need are; line numbering, cursor position, unicode > support and code highlighting (html/perl/javascript - preferably > customizable). "Nice to have" would be the code block collapsing but > I've lived without that until now so no biggy. > Any suggestion will be very much appreciated! > > Madison Have you looked at quanta plus? http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 13:31:04 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:31:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > ... > I've started using unicode (french symbols and Japanese kana/kanji > characters) in my program (I'm working on the translation code). I very > quickly found that nedit will show anything other than ASCII as garbage. > Gedit will display the characters but as often as not I get an error when > trying to save files with international characters in it. > ... Just out of curiosity, what locale settings are you using when you run gedit? If you change things to use utf-8, (e.g. export LANG=en_CA.UTF-8), does gedit save the international characters properly? I ask because glib (used be gedit) likes to convert its data to the locale's character set when writing to a file, so even though it could handle international characters internally, if your locale's character set is (for example) iso-8859-1, and characters that don't exist in iso-8859-1 will cause problems. So I'm guessing that changing the locale to use utf-8 would solve your problem. HTH JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 14:07:09 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:07:09 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 4/21/05, Madison Kelly wrote: > > I've been very happily using 'nedit' for my so-called coding for some > time now, despite lacking a couple functions that would otherwise be > "nice to have". The biggest feature I wish was there was a way to > collapse blocks (like if/then, while/until, subroutines, etc). That > isn't what brings me here though... I know nedit. It's a great little editor. I thought that it _did_ support "code folding". I remember reading it somewhere, but I never played around with it enough to learn it. It may be worth your while to do a bit of documentation hunting to learn how to turn code folding support on. -- I too have been on a quest for the perfect text editor.. I've bumped into many interesting solutions, but I stopped researching for a couple of years.. this thread is quite interesting. Any other recommendations will be nice to hear about. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 14:38:22 2005 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:38:22 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1114180702.14468.2.camel@localhost> On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 23:31 -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I really, really hope this doesn't become an emacs vs. vi thread... I > don't want to use something that takes a religious convertion and weeks > or study to use. :p There's a beautified version of vi called "Cream for Vim". It has a great gui, and is very easy to use, but still allows you to use all the old wacky syntax of vi if you want. http://cream.sourceforge.net/ Works great on Windows too if you're ever looking for a decent text editor for your buddy's laptop or whatever... Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 14:48:26 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:48:26 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42690EBA.1000806@alteeve.com> Paul Mora wrote: > Hi Madison. > > Try Yudit: > > pm > Thanks for the link! I'll look into it now and let you know how it works for me. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 14:47:45 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:47:45 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42690E91.5080406@alteeve.com> John Vetterli wrote: > On Thu, 21 Apr 2005, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> ... >> I've started using unicode (french symbols and Japanese kana/kanji >> characters) in my program (I'm working on the translation code). I >> very quickly found that nedit will show anything other than ASCII as >> garbage. Gedit will display the characters but as often as not I get >> an error when trying to save files with international characters in it. >> ... > > > Just out of curiosity, what locale settings are you using when you run > gedit? If you change things to use utf-8, (e.g. export > LANG=en_CA.UTF-8), does gedit save the international characters properly? > > I ask because glib (used be gedit) likes to convert its data to the > locale's character set when writing to a file, so even though it could > handle international characters internally, if your locale's character > set is (for example) iso-8859-1, and characters that don't exist in > iso-8859-1 will cause problems. So I'm guessing that changing the > locale to use utf-8 would solve your problem. > > HTH > JV I just installed FC4test2 (which doesn't come with nedit, hence my motivation to find something new) and it's shell is set to [madison at akane cgi-bin]$ echo $LANG en_US.UTF-8 Out of curiosity now I will reinstall nedit from source and see how it treats kana/kanji/french characters now. I wish I had thought to check it before re-installing. On my FC3 server though the character set is also 'en_CA.UTF-8' so I imagine that is what it was before. Thanks for the tip, I'll keep you (and the list) posted. Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 14:51:25 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <42685172.9040101-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <42685172.9040101@rogers.com> Message-ID: How about a tutorial on Making your own beer? Then we can have open source beer.... -Joseph- On 4/21/05, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > > One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do > > for me?" This was a difficult question to answer. There are things > > that TLUG does, of course, such as > > - presentation by speaker > > - beer > > - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list > > But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give > > shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your > > business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. > > Free beer, as in free software. ;-) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 14:53:50 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:53:50 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687B18.2040606-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <42687B18.2040606@almatau.com> Message-ID: <42690FFE.7000501@alteeve.com> Ilya Palagin wrote: > You can still use nedit or whatever programmer's editor you like, if you > don't put any unicode into your code. Read about I15n. Shortly, > instead of 'print "Hello world"' in Japanese, insert 'print HELLO_WORLD', > and define HELLO_WORLD constant in a file separately from the program code. > Those files can be created with any non-programming editor which supports > Unicode. This is, in a different way, sort of what I am doing but I use a database to store my "words" (strings for a given instance in each language). The trick is though I really want to be able to enter text at times in French and Japanese (comments, for example) right in the code. Thanks though, it's an interesting idea! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 14:54:43 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 10:54:43 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <1114169794.31703.8.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <1114169794.31703.8.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <42691033.7090000@alteeve.com> interlug-list wrote: > Have you looked at quanta plus? > http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/ I haven't yet but this is a name that rings a bell (though I've never used it before). I will look into in now along with Yedit. Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 15:03:03 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:03:03 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42691033.7090000-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <1114169794.31703.8.camel@holden.weait.net> <42691033.7090000@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1114182183.31703.45.camel@holden.weait.net> On Fri, 2005-04-22 at 10:54, Madison Kelly wrote: > interlug-list wrote: > > Have you looked at quanta plus? > > http://quanta.kdewebdev.org/ > > I haven't yet but this is a name that rings a bell (though I've never > used it before). I will look into in now along with Yedit. Thanks! It's a development environment, rather than an editor. At least, that's what the marketers say, ... But you can choose a document DTD and a character set encoding by project. Code highlighting and block collapsing is in there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 15:11:17 2005 From: login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:11:17 -0400 Subject: Indigo R4000 In-Reply-To: <42687B18.2040606-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <42687B18.2040606@almatau.com> Message-ID: <11289145.20050422111117@istop.com> Hello, This complete system is looking a new home. Please contact me off the list for its pickup arrangements. o- Indigo R4000 1MB cache o- 80MB RAM o- SX-24Z graphics o- (24bit up to 1280x1024, GE7, RM,..24bit Z-buffer) o- 19" SGI monitor (all modes + stereo modes supported) o- 2G SCSI-II HD o- IRIX 6.2 installed + media/applications CDs o- SGI original keyboard/mouse Physical Location: L6S 3J4, Canada Thanks! Shams [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 15:17:48 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:17:48 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <42688A8A.3080001-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <42688A8A.3080001@md5.ca> Message-ID: On 4/22/05, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > We do not have the facility for free at this time. Currently we > are trying rectify our much less then legal status. Incidentals, > if you have read for the power at the show must be paid out > of the pocket. There is no return on investment. I don't see why you should have to "pay" for space for a facility for regular meetings. There are surely companies friendly to Linux and/or TLUG that you could approach to provide space for these meetings. Pick any one of the big companies at Linuxworld (HP, Novell, etc.) and approach them for some space. Has this been tried? Also, with a huge member base, I'm sure someone either works somewhere or knows someone that has space that their company may be willing to donate for a meeting on a monthly or bi-monthly basis. > That is going to be ironed out within 2-3 weeks, as the turn out > at the show was great we can now plan for things that *DO* cost > in Toronto, which are free everywhere else in Canada. Like rooms > for meetings, usage of parks for group picnics. Unfortunately > Toronto as a whole is not liberal with money, because in some > part its culture and in some its city lack of money(as I was > explained). So things cost in this city... If you wish to provide > sufficent space accessible to TLUG members, be our guest. I already do. I provide the space in the auditorium at the IBM Canada head office for the NewTLUG meetings every two months. I provide the projector for the speakers, if it is required. Now mind you, it is easy to do, since I work for IBM in the Education Services division, who uses the auditorium. But still, I'm sure that other people on the TLUG list must also have such connections, either directly with their company, or they have friends, or whatever. Things do not have to cost. You just have to look harder. Same thing goes with parks and picnics. I'm sure that there may be companies willing to allow you to use some space on their property to hold an event, for little or maybe even no charge. > Lack of formality has come to immediate attention this Linux > world , those responsible are working out details as we speak. > Should be done in couple of weeks, not entirely unreasonable. That's the best news I've heard so far. If it actually happens, I applaud you. > ;-) I don't want to sound like a total complainer/whiner here. But I've been saying this stuff for years, and every year I hear the same stuff, and every year nothing gets done. If you really want to go forward, you need to get people willing to actually do what needs to be done, not just talk about it. > Thats SO Torontonian. Stop projecting your complexes onto > everybody else. People who want to go out will , and will have > great time. If you don't want to, or don't have great time > meeting people that may/do have similar interestes you're > welcome to reserve to yourself. No one will have problem with > that. Yeah, well last I checked, the T in TLUG stood for Toronto. You may not like or agree with the attitude, but you have to DEAL with them, not deride them or ignore them. Make the club more accessible, more friendly, and people will come. Not everyone has that lovely lackadasical, care-free go-with-the-flow self-righteous west-coast attitude. > That is being rectified. This kind of thing is common on every > forum, just sit back and take it philosphically. Shit happens, > there will always be stupid people, know your purpose. And > know this, complaining on public forum does score only negative > karma, if you are into that sort of thing. Instead say something > constructive. > Maybe there is too much of a westcoaster in me. There we tend > not to focus on depressing things, just solve them. As in VanLUG > and VLUG. Like I said, it's really come along way, and the list right now is real good to it's members; I can't remember the last time I saw a real flame over a question asked. But there needs to be some policy put in place, I think, to prevent it from happening again. I'll let the "westcoaster" and "karma" stuff slide for now... ;-) > That will be squared out very soon, most likely will take > very standard form, as any other public organization. Fact > that we had alot of registrations, motivated a group of > us to get our act together. It's about time. Glad to see you're taking this a bit more seriously than others had before you. > >What about a swap meet? We can all get together, bring all the > >computer crap we have stored in our closets and basements, and trade > >with each other! Just like the old TPUG swap meets of my youth; they > >were great! > > > > > I'm in except that i don't have any old stuff :-( Yeah, but I'd bet that many other TLUG list members have treasure-troves of old Pentium, SCSI, ARCnet and other computer hardware sitting in their garage or basement, waiting to be liberated. > >Also, what about a summer barbeque? A social gathering, somewhere > >like Center Island? Burgers, hot dogs, pop, and Linux? > > That costs money, to organized a picnic in public park. Can > be organized at someone's house, who has sufficent size back > yard. Yeah, and this is something that people would likely contribute a couple of bucks to. This is something that the money could go towards. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 15:20:55 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:20:55 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42691657.7000406@alteeve.com> Sy wrote: > I know nedit. It's a great little editor. I thought that it _did_ > support "code folding". I remember reading it somewhere, but I never > played around with it enough to learn it. It may be worth your while > to do a bit of documentation hunting to learn how to turn code folding > support on. I took another look through the docs (nedit is on my server) and I couldn't see anything on code folding. There are some interesting things there, including a command line option to set the langage but no info on *how* to use the switch. I am looking into that now. > I too have been on a quest for the perfect text editor.. I've bumped > into many interesting solutions, but I stopped researching for a > couple of years.. this thread is quite interesting. Any other > recommendations will be nice to hear about. I'll be happy to pass along what I end up settling on. :) Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 15:40:05 2005 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 11:40:05 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422060611.GA7698-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/22/05, William Park wrote: > 1. Facility is the main thing. It's free, only because we're > trespassing on UofT property. So why tresspass? Why not try and get formal permission? Other educational institutions host user group meetings, why not UofT? Mohawk College hosts the Hamilton Linux User Group (last time I checked), and I doubt they charge for it. Also, why does it have to be UofT? Why not go after some of the bigger companies, like HP, Novell, etc.? > 2. Projector is another big issue. It's free, only because we harasse > Chris with threat of ex-communication. So find a facility which has a projector that can be used, or someone who is reliable enough to provide one when necessary. You know what dates your meetings will be on well in advance; that shouldn't be hard to do. > 3. Then, there are minor issue of cost for booth at trade show, flyers, > labels, CDs, plastic laminators, food for the volunteers, etc. Ugh... back to the trade show issue. How many trade shows does TLUG do in a year? One? Two? Yeesh, it's not like you're at one every week. But those kinds of costs would be something that the membership fees may go towards. I would be a little torn about the idea of membership money going towards funding a booth at a trade show. I like the idea of promoting Linux to the masses, and feel it should be done as much as possible. But, in my mind, membership money should fund activities that directly benefit the members. After all, that's why they are paying... to receive some sort of benefit. Not to fund a booth at a show that preaches to the already converted. What would be nice to have at a show as giveaways would be some of the presentations that were made in the past year, on a CD or diskette, as giveaways. Everyone can download their distros from the Internet these days; it's kind of silly to give distros out. But a CD with the presentations would show the quality of the TLUG presenters and the extensive knowlege within the group. > However, I personally think that TLUG expenses are internal matter, and > shouldn't be aired in public. We come across as petty beggers (which we > are). :-) Hey, I agree with that. Club finances are not something you'd necessarily post on the mailing list. But what should be public is the direction and purpose of the group. What are we here for, and what activities do the funds cover. So anyone who wants to know where their $20 goes can see. > There are issues which concern only the paying members. But, I take > your point. You have to recognize that TLUG didn't have any structure > until a year ago. Before that, we were just a get-together of Linux > guys. Uh, we still are a get-together bunch of Linux guys. At least 95% of us. The other 5% are you, who want to take the club in this new direction. TLUG still doesn't really have any structure, not that is communicated to the so-called members. It shows in your above statement. Are you saying that "paying members" are the only ones that really have any say in what the current TLUG is or should become? When was this communicated? It's pretty sad when the person who organizes the speakers for TLUG doesn't even know anything about the membership fees or these restrictions on what paying and non-paying members can do. > Interrupting the speaker is one thing that we're trying to clamp down. > But, it also depends on the nature of talk. If the talk is about how > Microsoft is crappy, then trolls come alive. Very true, and I know for a fact that this has improved dramatically. It is important that the speaker have control of the meeting, and if he/she cannot do it, then the meeting convenor or organizer should be responsible for keeping it on track. > However, if we hold more practical tutorials, closer to code or scripts, > then the smart-ass snipes will die down. And, the discussion will be > about code or scripts (as it should be). Not necessarily. I've been to meetings which started out innocently enough that have devolved into a "who's used Linux the longest" and "who knows more about topic than the speaker" argument. > We can't afford location and/or permit. We're back to money. :-) Not true. It doesn't have to cost money. Just look harder. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 16:06:37 2005 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:06:37 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050422120637.57513542.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Thu, 21 Apr 2005 23:31:44 -0400 Madison Kelly disseminated the following: > I am hoping someone here might suggest a replacement text editor. The > only key things I need are; line numbering, cursor position, unicode > support and code highlighting (html/perl/javascript - preferably > customizable). "Nice to have" would be the code block collapsing but > I've lived without that until now so no biggy. SciTE? http://www.scintilla.org/SciTE.html -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 12:03:37 up 60 days, 13:11, 7 users, load average: 0.16, 0.04, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes, to blind you from the truth..." -- Morpheus, in The Matrix, describing Fox News -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 16:38:39 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:38:39 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050422163839.GA2450@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 11:40:05AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > On 4/22/05, William Park wrote: > > > 1. Facility is the main thing. It's free, only because we're > > trespassing on UofT property. > > So why tresspass? Why not try and get formal permission? Other > educational institutions host user group meetings, why not UofT? > Mohawk College hosts the Hamilton Linux User Group (last time I > checked), and I doubt they charge for it. > > Also, why does it have to be UofT? Why not go after some of the > bigger companies, like HP, Novell, etc.? They may be friendly now. But, they wanted money before. You are the only reason why we get the IBM location. TLUG have no formal relationship with IBM. > > There are issues which concern only the paying members. But, I take > > your point. You have to recognize that TLUG didn't have any > > structure until a year ago. Before that, we were just a > > get-together of Linux guys. > > Uh, we still are a get-together bunch of Linux guys. At least 95% of > us. The other 5% are you, who want to take the club in this new > direction. I would like to see us Linux guys make serious money. TLUG is good vehicle to do that, once minor repairs are done. Opportunities are coming our ways, and they fit well with "tutorial" style of talk that I've been grumbling for over the years. This is something that I will bring up at the next executive meeting. > > TLUG still doesn't really have any structure, not that is communicated > to the so-called members. It shows in your above statement. Are you > saying that "paying members" are the only ones that really have any > say in what the current TLUG is or should become? When was this > communicated? It's pretty sad when the person who organizes the > speakers for TLUG doesn't even know anything about the membership fees > or these restrictions on what paying and non-paying members can do. I don't know why it was not done. We can't fire the guy, because there wasn't anybody at the job. This goes back to organization thing. Before, it was just get-together. Now, we're trying to implement a formal structure. > > > We can't afford location and/or permit. We're back to money. :-) > > Not true. It doesn't have to cost money. Just look harder. Actually, money will solve ALL of our organizational problems. All free locations are very difficult to get to. IBM, Seneca at YorkU, UofT Scarborough campus, and many others have been mentioned. But, you can't get there in reasonable time. It takes me over 2.5 hours just to get to IBM/Seneca place. Even downtown UofT is 1.5 hour of pain. That's why we formed group, based in Mississauga. But, we don't have critical mass at the moment, so we just meet for dinner. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 16:49:40 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 12:49:40 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422060611.GA7698-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Ok, some general comments: Some stuff is being worked on, and I appreciate that. I assume that in time the various things like the constitution, member list, board members and such be available on the website. I also assume that official statements will be made on this list and at the next meeting. I still want to start up an official Wiki. Yes, I will move website docs to it and administer it if we set it up mediawiki. I can see immediate benefit to the collective at large in setting something nice up. * I didn't realise there were any issues of expense or whatever. Do I owe anyone money for the last meeting I went to? * If we want to straighten out and pay for the space we use, then I'm all for it. Like others, I would want to see a shopping list of expenses to understand where my money goes. I think an "open accounting" page which lists members and donations and the in/out of money would be nice to see. * Pay per meeting or per year.. it doesn't matter to me. What I'd like to see is a fixed list of expenses and a fixed cost for me as a participant, and then a donation drive for special events. ** If we organized two months in advance for something quirky like a trade show, imo that should be plenty of time to a) explain the costs clearly and b) ask for donations. This lets us keep the running expenses low, lets people pay for only what they get and lets more active people choose to donate more (time/money/equipment) for special events. Can we set up a paypal account for the official accountant to receive transfer of funds like this? ** We definitely need to set up a donation fund for trug equipment. If we don't own a projector between us, can we put that and other meeting equipment on a list. I don't mind donating a couple of hundred bucks. Can we rent one cheaply/easily? *** I'm still looking into being able to borrow the company projector, but.. other people seem to keep their paws on the damned thing all the time (they like using it for a dual-monitor setup for a laptop), and our spare broke! I'll look into stealing it and leaving a "my turn!" note. =) ** If we'd like.. I may have access to a couple of spare laptops for meetings, if we want to do installfests or something. * Structure to meetings is nice to see: Presentations are a nice idea ** two presentations seems like a good idea *** I loved the last meeting because topic-drift is nice to allow. I don't see how that's as possible with two presentations on two topics. On the other hand, I can certainly see how this derailing of the topic can be a bad thing and should be clamped down upon. ** Tutorials are also a nice concept.. I can get into just about any topic. It's all good. * The socialness is something that will happen or not happen depending on the needs of the participants. All that can really be done by the organizers is.. uh.. to organize. =) So stuff like meeting times, places and topics.. whatever happens outside of that is up to whoever else. If people like socialness then we come early or stay late (or go for a beer). These options would be nice to see.. renting a hall for a longer period of time than the presentation time allotment, for example. ** A swap meet, installfest or other type of event sounds wonderful. ** Other events outside of regular meeting times sounds cool. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:02:20 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:02:20 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20050422170220.GR23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 11:31:44PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I really, really hope this doesn't become an emacs vs. vi thread... I > don't want to use something that takes a religious convertion and weeks > or study to use. :p Well vim should work then. vimtutor teaches it in a few minutes and off you go. Back at university the CS club would do a vi tutorial at the start of each term and people were usually quite decent at editing simple text files in vi after a one hour session. > I've been very happily using 'nedit' for my so-called coding for some > time now, despite lacking a couple functions that would otherwise be > "nice to have". The biggest feature I wish was there was a way to > collapse blocks (like if/then, while/until, subroutines, etc). That > isn't what brings me here though... > > I've started using unicode (french symbols and Japanese kana/kanji > characters) in my program (I'm working on the translation code). I very > quickly found that nedit will show anything other than ASCII as garbage. > Gedit will display the characters but as often as not I get an error > when trying to save files with international characters in it. > > I am hoping someone here might suggest a replacement text editor. The > only key things I need are; line numbering, cursor position, unicode > support and code highlighting (html/perl/javascript - preferably > customizable). "Nice to have" would be the code block collapsing but > I've lived without that until now so no biggy. I am pretty sure vim can do line numbering (at least it shows the line number you are on in the status line if you want, which is all I have ever wanted. I don't want to waste display space when I don't have to). Syntax highlighting is rather good in vim, cursor position is in the status line, unicode (UTF8) works great in an xterm that supports utf8 or in gvim's own window. Assuming you pick a unicode enabled font of course. > I have a modest laptop, a P3 1GHz w/ 512MB RAM so nothing to fancy. I > like a lot of screen real estate and most of the programs I've seen that > are advertised as "programming" programs are very ... full. I like very > minimal. I also don't like Gedit's behavior of creating a ~ file > for each file I edit, even after I save the file... One of the key > reasons I used nedit over gedit in fact. > > Any suggestion will be very much appreciated! Well I have been a vim programmer for a number of years, and can't imagine a better editor for a programmer. There are many features I don't know about (probably 99%) but the 1% I know sure works well for my programing style. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:01:53 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:01:53 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422060611.GA7698-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/22/05, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 12:13:42AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > > On 4/21/05, William Park wrote: > > > But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give > > > shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your > > > business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. > > > > As it rightly should be. People want to see some return on their > > investment, on their dollar. Currently, the investment is time, the > > time we take to go to the meetings, listen to the speaker, and learn > > something new. Maybe that will lead to them being a speaker, or > > contributing in some other way. > > > > What expenses are there on the normal TLUG meetings? The facilities > > are free, and the speakers are volunteers. Where are the costs? > > 1. Facility is the main thing. It's free, only because we're > trespassing on UofT property. > > 2. Projector is another big issue. It's free, only because we harasse > Chris with threat of ex-communication. I bring one sometimes, when asked. Occasionally I grouse a bit because it's a bit bulky and irritating to carry around, but that's really not a big deal :-). > 3. Then, there are minor issue of cost for booth at trade show, flyers, > labels, CDs, plastic laminators, food for the volunteers, etc. This misses a _really_ vital item... 4. Hosting of TLUG web site, mailing lists, and such. It's well and nice that this has been contributed freely; it's still something that has a not insubstantial cost. I'm getting _less_ convinced over time that having a large formal organization is of terribly much value. The big value that used to be perceived was that an incorporated LUG would be a useful "infrastructure" to use as the seed around which conferences could crystallize. That was certainly true for ALS (Atlanta Linux Symposium) in yesteryear. It's NOT the case with LinuxWorld. It wasn't the case when the Debian annual conference was held in Toronto the other year. Having a big formal organization _hasn't_ been necessary to get interesting speakers in; there have been quite a lot pop in under auspices of other things, whether that be Perl Mongers drawing in Perl illuminatis, LinuxWorld drawing in Jon Hall, and other such. Indeed, it may be that the Real Right Answer is that the proper point of a LUG, in Toronto, is to be biased to those that are interested in the ongoing development of the OS kernel written by Linus and the cast of thousands, and for a lot of activities to be associated with the numerous "SIGS" that are interested in other things. Which would mean that what we _really_ need is to solicit people interested in leading SIGs that can "feed" more individual needs, so that a few people head to Perl Mongers, some more to the Python group, some to the BSD group, some to a group of Debian fans. I keep thinking about starting up some form of PostgreSQL "SIG", which strikes me as a more useful idea than making TLUG more complicated. There's a Toronto Java users group; there's probably room for plenty more... -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:17:55 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:17:55 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20050422170220.GR23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <20050422170220.GR23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 4/22/05, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Apr 21, 2005 at 11:31:44PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > I really, really hope this doesn't become an emacs vs. vi thread... I > > don't want to use something that takes a religious convertion and weeks > > or study to use. :p > > Well vim should work then. vimtutor teaches it in a few minutes and off > you go. Back at university the CS club would do a vi tutorial at the > start of each term and people were usually quite decent at editing > simple text files in vi after a one hour session. I know you mean that seriously, but some part of me was quite horrified to read "editing simple text files in vi after a one hour session." Still, because cream is now on my list of stuff to check out[1], I will definitely have to re-visit vimtutor when I'm comfortable enough to be able to handle learning my own personal 1% of vi. =) [1] http://sysy.homeip.net/mw/index.php/Linux_software#To_try_soon... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:22:56 2005 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:22:56 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422163839.GA2450-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422163839.GA2450@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <2A8619FA-B353-11D9-A704-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Apr 22, 2005, at 12:38 PM, William Park wrote: > Now, we're trying to implement a > formal structure. I'm obviously missing something.... Who does "we" refer to in the above sentence? (Does TLUG have elected directors?) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 18:40:32 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:40:32 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422163839.GA2450-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422163839.GA2450@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050422184032.GA3641@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 12:38:39PM -0400, William Park wrote: > Actually, money will solve ALL of our organizational problems. All free > locations are very difficult to get to. IBM, Seneca at YorkU, UofT > Scarborough campus, and many others have been mentioned. But, you can't > get there in reasonable time. It takes me over 2.5 hours just to get to > IBM/Seneca place. Even downtown UofT is 1.5 hour of pain. > > That's why we formed group, based in Mississauga. But, we > don't have critical mass at the moment, so we just meet for dinner. All locations are difficult to get to for people coming from far away and easy to get to for people coming from close. Of course, "far away" and "close" are measured differently for each person, depending upon whether they are driving a car, taking TTC, riding a bicycle, etc. There cannot be an answer to this that does any better than minimising discomfort by some measure that has little relationship to the measure for the various individual people, except in a probabilistic way. How will providing an executive group with some money to spend help change this? -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:30:06 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:30:06 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <20050422170220.GR23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050422173006.GS23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:17:55PM -0400, Sy wrote: > I know you mean that seriously, but some part of me was quite > horrified to read "editing simple text files in vi after a one hour > session." modula-3, pascal, c, c++ are all simple text files. So is .cshrc and .profile and such. That was what people in a CS program needed to be able to do to do their assignments, and besides people got ticked off when someone started using xemacs on a shared system with 128M ram. > Still, because cream is now on my list of stuff to check out[1], I > will definitely have to re-visit vimtutor when I'm comfortable enough > to be able to handle learning my own personal 1% of vi. =) Somehow an add on for vim or extension to vim is a frightening thought. What could you possible add. Hmm, having just tried cream, good grief that breaks vim too many ways to tolerate. I don't want my escape key to change meaning, I like modes (auto insert is very annoying). Even in expert mode it is still too different from standard behaviour to be tolerated. Well not for me no matter how interesting those features might be. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 18:47:25 2005 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:47:25 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20050422170220.GR23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <20050422170220.GR23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20050422184724.GB3641@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:02:20PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I am pretty sure vim can do line numbering (at least it shows the line > number you are on in the status line if you want, which is all I have > ever wanted. I don't want to waste display space when I don't have to). :set number I use that every few years when I'm debugging a script and the debugger uses line numbers for breakpoints and error messages. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:44:45 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:44:45 -0400 Subject: what does a system administrator do? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4/22/05, Robert Brockway wrote: > Seriously. So many systems are not properly documented. It will come > back to haunt you. This is part of the fear of reproducability of one's position. If I keep a stranglehold on my position then the prospect of someone replacing me seems less possible. I've begin some very nice bits of documentation that has helped a problem go from "oh my sweet lord!" to "oh, where's that note again?", so I see the value. =) > Yes, in the end system administration is a service profession, either to > external clients or coworkers. I couldn't agree more. I've seen some people act as though the system they administrate (administer?) is their customer, and not the people who use it. > I'd still recommend multiple staff be familiar with the different areas > lest one staff member being sick causes a big problem. See also "Truck > Number" in the jargon file. Note to lurkers: http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?TruckNumber The TruckNumber is the size of the smallest set of people in a project such that, if one of them got hit by a truck, the project would be in trouble. My company is in serious sh*t because we have what I call "linchpins". Because we're so small, there is a lot of focused expertise (and, oddly, a lot of dead weight.. sigh). There are a few key people, and there is a lot of effort done by everyone for personal job security (as well as climbing the f'n corporate ladder). Because of a very nasty (illegal) hiring/firing history things are shakey. Right now my job security is that I can scare the living hell out of non-techs with an incomprehensable expertise. Go figure.. I have no idea what I'm doing, I just wanted to man a phone and be left alone. =/ - Hey Sy, can you take a look at my heisenberg compensator.. I think its flux capacitor is burnt out. . Uh, I didn't even realise that technology existed. - Well sure, I got one last week.. can you take a look at it? . But, uh.. I have no idea what that is. - Well you know this stuff, can you take a look at it? . I dunno, I was kinda doing something [obviously lying].. you know as much as I do, why can't you fix it? - You're smart like that, c'mon [begging] . Sure, I guess. Uh, I dunno what I'm doing though. I might not be able to fix it. - Yay Sy! . Umm.. ok, is that right? - You're the best! . But I have no idea what I did.. - Thanks! . Uh, whatever. My job is so wierd. I love it, but I hate not feeling competent. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:49:55 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:49:55 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050422174955.GA2896@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 12:49:40PM -0400, Sy wrote: > * If we want to straighten out and pay for the space we use, then I'm > all for it. Like others, I would want to see a shopping list of > expenses to understand where my money goes. I think an "open > accounting" page which lists members and donations and the in/out of > money would be nice to see. You have 2 choices: - Get a volunteer to do this. If so, will you be volunteering? - Pay someone to do this. If so, will you be coughing up some cash? Let's move forward, rather than rehashing what could've been. The topic on hand is Do you want "tutorials"? -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:57:07 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:57:07 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:01:53PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > On 4/22/05, William Park wrote: > > 2. Projector is another big issue. It's free, only because we > > harasse Chris with threat of ex-communication. > > I bring one sometimes, when asked. Occasionally I grouse a bit > because it's a bit bulky and irritating to carry around, but that's > really not a big deal :-). > > > 3. Then, there are minor issue of cost for booth at trade show, flyers, > > labels, CDs, plastic laminators, food for the volunteers, etc. > > This misses a _really_ vital item... > > 4. Hosting of TLUG web site, mailing lists, and such. > > It's well and nice that this has been contributed freely; it's still > something that has a not insubstantial cost. We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind their machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo Group has link page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I never used it). If doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. Each person can maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, and we can link it from central site. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 17:59:40 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:59:40 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <2A8619FA-B353-11D9-A704-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422163839.GA2450@node1.opengeometry.net> <2A8619FA-B353-11D9-A704-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <20050422175940.GC2896@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:22:56PM -0400, phil wrote: > On Apr 22, 2005, at 12:38 PM, William Park wrote: > > >Now, we're trying to implement a > >formal structure. > > I'm obviously missing something.... Who does "we" refer to in the > above sentence? (Does TLUG have elected directors?) Not yet. That's the point. Only TLUG members can vote. Mailing list and meeting attendance are open to public. (At least, that's what I've been told.) -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bill-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 18:57:30 2005 From: bill-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (bill-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:57:30 -0400 Subject: ping Message-ID: <20050422145730.B2095@diamond.ss.org> ping -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 18:55:06 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 14:55:06 -0400 Subject: ping In-Reply-To: <20050422145730.B2095-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050422145730.B2095@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <20050422185505.GT23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 02:57:30PM -0400, bill-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > ping pong -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 19:04:59 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 19:04:59 +0000 Subject: ping In-Reply-To: <20050422145730.B2095-l+PWtdWbHAuXFJAUJl40Xg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050422145730.B2095@diamond.ss.org> Message-ID: <200504221904.59628.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 22, 2005 06:57 pm, bill-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > ping PING tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38) 56(84) bytes of data. 64 bytes from tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38): icmp_seq=2 ttl=50 time=91.4 ms 64 bytes from tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38): icmp_seq=3 ttl=50 time=48.8 ms 64 bytes from tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38): icmp_seq=4 ttl=50 time=51.6 ms 64 bytes from tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38): icmp_seq=5 ttl=50 time=113 ms 64 bytes from tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38): icmp_seq=6 ttl=50 time=77.8 ms 64 bytes from tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38): icmp_seq=7 ttl=50 time=75.5 ms 64 bytes from tlug.ss.org (204.225.177.38): icmp_seq=8 ttl=50 time=48.2 ms ...... ;) -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 19:27:33 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:27:33 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Obtaining router external address Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__28493.7596218244$1114197801$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Hi all, we had this thread about getting the address of the router from the lan side. Solutions involving parsing the response of an external site were recorded. I am using such a solution. However, someone said he can obtain it using SNMP. I just tried and I can't on my router. Would the person like to share that information here ? thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 19:31:53 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 15:31:53 -0400 Subject: Obtaining router external address In-Reply-To: <6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Message-ID: <20050422193153.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:27:33PM +0300, Peter wrote: > we had this thread about getting the address of the router from the lan > side. Solutions involving parsing the response of an external site were > recorded. I am using such a solution. However, someone said he can > obtain it using SNMP. I just tried and I can't on my router. Would the > person like to share that information here ? Well some routers do offer SNMP and some don't. Some you have to turn the feature on too. I know my USR8054 has a setting for enabling SNMP, although I haven't looked at what info it provides, but I suspect the external IP would be one of them. I should check that sometime. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 20:03:11 2005 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:03:11 -0400 Subject: Indigo R4000 In-Reply-To: <11289145.20050422111117-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <42687B18.2040606@almatau.com> <11289145.20050422111117@istop.com> Message-ID: <4269587F.5000409@alteeve.com> Sorry for replying to the list but the login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org address doesn't seem to be answering. If you're still looking for a home, I'd love to play with it! (I lost my old Indy and have been yearning ever since. :p ) Madison login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hello, > > This complete system is looking a new home. Please > contact me off the list for its pickup arrangements. > > o- Indigo R4000 1MB cache > o- 80MB RAM > o- SX-24Z graphics > o- (24bit up to 1280x1024, GE7, RM,..24bit Z-buffer) > o- 19" SGI monitor (all modes + stereo modes supported) > o- 2G SCSI-II HD > o- IRIX 6.2 installed + media/applications CDs > o- SGI original keyboard/mouse > > Physical Location: L6S 3J4, Canada > > Thanks! > > Shams [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly (Digimer) TLE-BU, The Linux Experience; Back Up http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 20:04:21 2005 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:04:21 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422060611.GA7698-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <426958C5.8020503@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 William Park wrote: >>What expenses are there on the normal TLUG meetings? The facilities >>are free, and the speakers are volunteers. Where are the costs? > > 1. Facility is the main thing. It's free, only because we're > trespassing on UofT property. > > 2. Projector is another big issue. It's free, only because we harasse > Chris with threat of ex-communication. Actually, it's the projector from one of the board-rooms here at Afilias. We have standing permission to bring it to TLUG meetings. However, if it gets broken in the process, Chris and I are on the hook for repairing or replacing it. In which case we'd be passing a hat. :) Speaking of tutorials, I bet that Chris could be convinced to give a talk on the inner workings of slony (the async postgres replication system). I could do one about running postgres in highly available production environments (hardware sizing and selection, resource allocation, operations techniques & procedures, etc). - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFCaVjEgfzn5SevSpoRAjBNAJ0cUeJy0U+bZFer9YobWJFhO1QPDQCfRe6+ ZJq2lZf7FijLQhQtwbFwkZ4= =iltI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 20:09:53 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:09:53 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422174955.GA2896-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422174955.GA2896@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1114200593.31703.109.camel@holden.weait.net> On Fri, 2005-04-22 at 13:49, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 12:49:40PM -0400, Sy wrote: > > * If we want to straighten out and pay for the space we use, then I'm > > all for it. Like others, I would want to see a shopping list of > > expenses to understand where my money goes. I think an "open > > accounting" page which lists members and donations and the in/out of > > money would be nice to see. > > You have 2 choices: > - Get a volunteer to do this. If so, will you be volunteering? > - Pay someone to do this. If so, will you be coughing up some cash? Okay, I volunteer. I just got off the phone with a contact at Centennial College. I have an agreement in principle to host a monthly LUG meeting there. The facility includes class room sizes from 30 to 150 seats. Network and projector in each class. No charge. (Parking cost to be determined) They are also interested in: Installfests - they have class rooms / labs that are ideal for this Demonstrations - they welcome HOWTOs, demos, etc, and have a large audience of potential new users. Advertising - They want advance notice so they can advertise topics. Curriculum - They have asked for our help in developing courses for their students and training for their teachers. They currently offer two Linux courses (I believe one is required and another is an option). Obvious drawbacks are: - moving to a different area will upset some (and thrill others) - no subway (bus access) - pay parking ($5 evening rate) Thoughts? Any other contacts for donated facilities? The details need to be discussed further and then a commitment carved in stone. Is this worth pursuing? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 20:35:47 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 16:35:47 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <1114200593.31703.109.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org>; from interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org on Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 04:09:53PM -0400 References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422174955.GA2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <1114200593.31703.109.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <20050422163547.A2297@diamond.ss.org> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 04:09:53PM -0400, interlug-list wrote: > On Fri, 2005-04-22 at 13:49, William Park wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 12:49:40PM -0400, Sy wrote: > > > * If we want to straighten out and pay for the space we use, then I'm > > > all for it. Like others, I would want to see a shopping list of > > > expenses to understand where my money goes. I think an "open > > > accounting" page which lists members and donations and the in/out of > > > money would be nice to see. > > > > You have 2 choices: > > - Get a volunteer to do this. If so, will you be volunteering? > > - Pay someone to do this. If so, will you be coughing up some cash? > We spoke to someone at LinuxWorld from Centennial and we discussed this. Please continue. The only real problem I have in principle is that there is no subway access, but bus access is fine. Can you find out the bus routes. I'm not sure if we are moving the downtown meeting up there. The reason there is two meetings is to allow a level of access to both suburbanites and townies. But in principle it does allows us to provide certain events (installfests, tutorials, etc ...) if we can be guarenteed a venue. Bill > Okay, I volunteer. > > I just got off the phone with a contact at Centennial College. I have > an agreement in principle to host a monthly LUG meeting there. The > facility includes class room sizes from 30 to 150 seats. Network and > projector in each class. No charge. (Parking cost to be determined) > > They are also interested in: > > Installfests - they have class rooms / labs that are ideal for this > Demonstrations - they welcome HOWTOs, demos, etc, and have a large > audience of potential new users. > Advertising - They want advance notice so they can advertise topics. > Curriculum - They have asked for our help in developing courses for > their students and training for their teachers. They currently offer > two Linux courses (I believe one is required and another is an option). > Obvious drawbacks are: > - moving to a different area will upset some (and thrill others) > - no subway (bus access) > - pay parking ($5 evening rate) > > Thoughts? Any other contacts for donated facilities? The details need > to be discussed further and then a commitment carved in stone. Is this > worth pursuing? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 20:30:19 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 23:30:19 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Obtaining router external address In-Reply-To: <20050422193153.GU23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <20050422193153.GU23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__7199.87640991366$1114201583$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 10:27:33PM +0300, Peter wrote: >> we had this thread about getting the address of the router from the lan >> side. Solutions involving parsing the response of an external site were >> recorded. I am using such a solution. However, someone said he can >> obtain it using SNMP. I just tried and I can't on my router. Would the >> person like to share that information here ? > > Well some routers do offer SNMP and some don't. Some you have to turn > the feature on too. I know my USR8054 has a setting for enabling SNMP, > although I haven't looked at what info it provides, but I suspect the > external IP would be one of them. I should check that sometime. I turned it on obviously. I used a client called neo to test it. The IP info is not there, or I don't know how to spec the resource path to get it. I can get a list of interfaces, and what's up etc and even macs but I can't resolve wan macs from the lan. This is a hen-or-egg problem. The router should be able to do this somehow but I can't find the way. Also, I'm interested in a more generalised solution. I can use a script to pull the data from the web page of the router status or same via ssh. I would like something more elegant. Hacking the router is not an option. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 20:56:15 2005 From: bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org (Barnaby Jeans) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 13:56:15 -0700 Subject: Obtaining router external address Message-ID: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B0510C5B9@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Peter, If you have enabled SNMP on your router and set the appropriate community name then you should be able to execute the following (assuming you have the Net-SNMP utils) snmpwalk -c COMMUNITY_NAME -v 1 ROUTER_INTERNAL_IP ipAdEntAddr If you have every setup correctly you should get something similar to the following: IP-MIB::ipAdEntAddr.x.x.x.x = IpAddress: x.x.x.x IP-MIB::ipAdEntAddr.192.168.1.1 = IpAddress: 192.168.1.1 You should get 2 addresses back, one is obviously the internal address of your router (which a quick grep -v would remove) and the other one (with the x.x.x.x) will be the external IP of the router. If you want to get creative and see what other information is available, simply re-run the command leaving off the ipAdEntAddr piece (snmpwalk -c community_name -v 1 router_ip) Hope this helps. Barnaby -- Barnaby Jeans IT Pro Advisor Microsoft Canada phone: 905-363-8395 cell: 416-553-2197 email: bjeans-0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A at public.gmane.org messenger: bjeans-sDcR4YYMLqo2WLoE0AsyOQC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Barnaby's Canadian IT Pro WebLog - http://blogs.technet.com/Barnaby_Jeans/ -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter Sent: April 22, 2005 3:28 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Obtaining router external address Hi all, we had this thread about getting the address of the router from the lan side. Solutions involving parsing the response of an external site were recorded. I am using such a solution. However, someone said he can obtain it using SNMP. I just tried and I can't on my router. Would the person like to share that information here ? thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 21:37:56 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:37:56 -0400 Subject: Reliable Apple Service provider Message-ID: <42696EB4.10805@md5.ca> Hi, I am having terrible issues with my powerbook 15" keyboard, bought in Nov. 2004, I am just wondering if any of you have some personal contact with apple care enginner so I can determine what needs to be done with it. I have already replaced keyboard 2 times @ Service centre on Spadina & College, to no avail. Same problem presists. Apple representatives sort of adamant about what can be done about this issue except taking it for repair... Any information would be great. later, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 22:57:23 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 17:57:23 -0500 Subject: ping In-Reply-To: <200504221904.59628.jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20050422145730.B2095@diamond.ss.org> <200504221904.59628.jason@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: > On April 22, 2005 06:57 pm, bill-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org wrote: > ping -bash: /bin/ping: Permission denied -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Apr 22 22:28:19 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 18:28:19 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <20050422120637.57513542.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> <20050422120637.57513542.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <42697A83.9060707@sympatico.ca> what I use for multilingual work: * xemacs-mule * jedit () The latter is very pretty, but a bit slow. If the former doesn't work for you, your definition of "work" is wrong. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 00:31:44 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 20:31:44 -0400 Subject: the web as a database In-Reply-To: <20050421131255.GI23271-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> <4266B250.5070005@istop.com> <4266BBC0.4090001@istop.com> <20050421131255.GI23271@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <42699770.2010500@istop.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 20, 2005 at 04:29:52PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >>Thank you very much, Taavi, for the link. >> >>I did not know that the thing exists. >> >>Anyway, there are always ways around to introduce them. W3C is a sitting >>duck. Waiting, talking with companies that may support them, >>negotiating, and all this b*ls**t. This can be done without waiting, >>rather by enforcing certain solutions by using them and making them popular. >> >>Indeed, the web would become entirely different once these ideas were used. > Lennard, pessimisticaly: > Well given people don't even seem able to write web pages that can be > displayed in all browsers (ie using standard html and no junk > extensions), whatever makes you think most web developers have enough > clue to mark up their content with various meta information about what > it is. Not going to happen. They are more worried about how it looks > in IE, than about content or how that content can be accessed. My mood is different. Take into account who really introduces standards to the web. Users do that? Users just follow them. There are big business needs behind the new technology. Their money will shape the world, not passiveness of most of web users. Once the business smells the money, things will become more and more popular. I am not talking about businesses of one-person companies. Much to talk about... zb. > Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 01:57:36 2005 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 21:57:36 -0400 Subject: Reliable Apple Service provider In-Reply-To: <42696EB4.10805-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <42696EB4.10805@md5.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20504221857666c260e@mail.gmail.com> Sorry I don't know anyone personally, but you should be aware of Apple's policy on PB repairs: http://www.apple.com/ca/support/powerbook/service/ This should answer your questions. I would also check http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14-87aB/pDAhcSDpMccWardtjRmByFHzeGd at public.gmane.org@.ee6ba8c And see if others are having the same problem as you. My own sweet-sweet Powerbook G4 15" has been trouble-free; best of luck to you in your search. Cheers, Aaron. On 4/22/05, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hi, > I am having terrible issues with my powerbook 15" keyboard, bought in > Nov. 2004, I am just wondering if > any of you have some personal contact with apple care enginner so I can > determine what needs to be done > with it. I have already replaced keyboard 2 times @ Service centre on > Spadina & College, to no avail. > Same problem presists. Apple representatives sort of adamant about what > can be done about this issue > except taking it for repair... Any information would be great. > later, > pavel > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 02:18:39 2005 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:18:39 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422175940.GC2896-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422163839.GA2450@node1.opengeometry.net> <2A8619FA-B353-11D9-A704-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050422175940.GC2896@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4269B07F.30907@golden.net> William Park wrote: >On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:22:56PM -0400, phil wrote: > > >>On Apr 22, 2005, at 12:38 PM, William Park wrote: >> >> >> >>>Now, we're trying to implement a >>>formal structure. >>> >>> >>I'm obviously missing something.... Who does "we" refer to in the >>above sentence? (Does TLUG have elected directors?) >> >> > >Not yet. That's the point. Only TLUG members can vote. Mailing list >and meeting attendance are open to public. (At least, that's what I've >been told.) > > > What's a TLUG member ? Maybe this should be post on tlug.ss.org. I have subscribe to this list for over 5 years and still don't recall anything about membership drives either. Maybe I missed something. :-) I remember various flame wars about getting Inc though. The only time I heard of money was when I took up a collection to donate on behalf of Jan Carlson. Would someone please forward info on a membership. Thanks John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 03:18:26 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:18:26 +0000 Subject: Reliable Apple Service provider In-Reply-To: <42696EB4.10805-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <42696EB4.10805@md5.ca> Message-ID: <200504222318.27079.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 22, 2005 05:37 pm, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Hi, > I am having terrible issues with my powerbook 15" keyboard, bought in > Nov. 2004, I am just wondering if > any of you have some personal contact with apple care enginner so I can > determine what needs to be done > with it. I have already replaced keyboard 2 times @ Service centre on > Spadina & College, to no avail. > Same problem presists. Apple representatives sort of adamant about what > can be done about this issue > except taking it for repair... Any information would be great. > later, > pavel I think http://www.loop.on.ca/service-home.html -- Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 03:42:10 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 22:42:10 -0500 Subject: A short list of things I want out of TLUG In-Reply-To: <4269B07F.30907-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422163839.GA2450@node1.opengeometry.net> <2A8619FA-B353-11D9-A704-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050422175940.GC2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <4269B07F.30907@golden.net> Message-ID: Because I view the messages regarding organization, meeting topics, fundraising, group goals and whatnot as being a sign of a greater possibility, I would like to beg the audience for a -- ok, for realistically a good hour -- with this post/thread. I'm nervous as hell posting like this, so please make criticism constructive so I can learn.. Now I know that the first thing a guy like me does when something important is being discussed is _write too damned much_, but all of this boils down to a very simple idea: By expressing a short list of my needs, I can help everyone understand what I like and need as a member of the community. Then, when a structure forms, I can take my simple little list, and compare it.. to determine if my needs are met. There's no need for me to worry about greater specifics, just my simple needs. If my needs are not met, then I do my best to discuss that particular point in favour of my needs. That discussion should lead to my changing my opinion or helping others understand and work with mine.. or towards a good compromise. Compromise becomes straightforward (but maybe not easy) when everyone knows concisely what they actually want. I think this short list may be a good tool for others to effectively communicate their own needs. With my short list of needs, I can realise that I don't need to care too much about discussing things that don't really matter to me. To help the signal:noise, I'll be applying this idea right after this post. =) In my ignorance I have to ask what the benefits of formal organization are. Allow me to brainstorm a little, and do correct me when I'm wrong, although s:n may be better served by just your own short list if you understand the jist of things. I think I understand some of it.. viewing things sortof like a "primative" society versus whatever.. There would be more organization towards the benefit of decision-making for the collective, for example. A small community can make decisions amongst themselves, where a larger one would have difficulty reaching a concensus. So for tlug to grow larger and still be able to make effective group decisions, structure should form.. right? Ok, but what decisions need to be made? It seems appropriate to have some structure to be able to interact with the greater world, if only to have people appointed for the task of "face time" necessary for, say, interaction with larger corporations. I don't know that a big company would be comfortable dealing with a random delegate who cannot speak on behalf of their peers. So the structure would alleviate the need for wide-scale concensus, allowing for a sort of generally agreed-upon charter which the structure follows on behalf of members. So in my example, we vote for people who do the "face time". We do this because it's good for rubbing elbows with corporate entities. We want to rub elbows.. well I would say that this brings various random benefits, like career opportunities or benefits to the greater enthusiast community. So structure would help a larger society form which can operate without the need to have the large collective decisions. The charter concept, when generally agreed upon, allows members to step away from the nitty gritty decisions and benefit without being bogged down by the constant pull for concensus. Well, I'm not explaining it very well.. but we all understand some of the benefits for ourselves.. after all, we are a part of a society with traits that had to evolve along some of these lines. -- In my opinion, I don't particularly care if structure exists or not, and generally speaking I wouldn't be aware of it. I empathise with the lack of enthusiasm some have shared with the idea. Why mess with a good thing, why bother with the effort, who let that guy be in charge, dude where's my car. The socialness will exist outside of the structure. It's an inevitability. I don't think we lose out on that underculture because of a structure. The question is, is there a greater value in the various designs? Frankly, I'm shocked there isn't a little corporation floating amongst you. It's not like computers are new. It's not like you're new to computers. Hell, some of you have been playing with this crap for longer than I've been eating solid food! I figured it was logical for a tlug to have some significant firepower in its arsenal. We appear to have some elders looking to gel things together for future benefit. I don't see much of a problem with trying. The question should now be.. how? My gut tells me that the best thing to do is look at the models which others have used. My brain tells me to learn from others and adapt their models to our needs. What I really want to do is kidnap some organizers from other groups.. =) That's the kind of work that's suited for the various elders. If you all want to step down and leave a structure in your place, then the structure needs to do the job right. -- For the rest of us. I propose something kinda simple. In no order, what are the five most selfish things you want out of a "Toronto Linux User Group", and what are their dependancies? Again, all you should really care about in the greater politics of all of this is your selfish short list. I'll begin with mine: 1) To be introduced to new software and methods. 2) To spend some time out of the house, breathing fresh air and meeting interesting new people. 3) To be motivated and enlightened by wiser people. 4) To make friends such that I may one day could lean on them for technical advice and support. 5) To give back to society at large. This is enough to give everyone else an idea of what you as a person want. If you want to elaborate, go ahead. Now I can look at my five items and ask myself.. what do they depend on? 1) Finding people from varied walks of life who all have various preferences. 2) Various social clubs. 3) Finding smart people isn't hard. Finding a situation where such a person is willing to contribute specifically to my improvement isn't so easy. 4) Meeting people of the specific variety and skillsets is bloody hard. 5) Mentoring, inventing/designing, writing, freedomfighting. This one's hard to define. Then I can further ask myself how can I get those dependancies fulfilled? I'd be willing to bet that a good structure would help me fulfill my goals. 1) A basic semi-formed usergroup which has enough people in it and is active enough for me to find it would have people who could introduce me to new software and methods, but only if they were prompted with things like presentations or topical discussion. That'd be you all. 2) Socialness is everywhere, it just involves a little legwork. A well-organized usergroup practically hands this on a silver platter.. it just takes buying some beer and shouting over the music at the bar. 3) Paying for higher education, going to lectures and online study provide some means to be further-wisened by my betters. Hey, usergroups are lots cheaper and in some cases can have _vastly_ superior expertise and life experience to higher education. 4) Pay for support, endlessly scour google, newsgroups, forums, mailing lists and irc channels. Waste lots of life, lose more hair. Or find a usergroup, contribute enough and in turn I can sometimes get a little supportive pat on the head and a point in the right direction. 5) This is where a more structured group comes in handy. I can give a little by helping a random newbie. I can give a lot by aligning myself with a cool project. Have you ever gotten the feeling that you can do more? It keeps me up at night sometimes. =/ One thing I need is to see some semblance of written structure from which more Enlightened plotting and planning can come. So by outlining my short list, I am able to communicate myself so that the budding structure can understand and hopefully appreciate and work towards my goals. This way, I can welcome our new insect overlords.. uh, I can welcome structure because it could effectively address my needs. s'ok? Regards, Sy --- $ apt-get install tlug-sy error: cannot open lock file //var/lib/rpm/RPMLOCK in exclusive mode error: cannot open Packages database in E: could not open RPM database -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 07:29:14 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:29:14 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Obtaining router external address In-Reply-To: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B0510C5B9-dXJK5SiL78kMZs6+X9q5QUbaZq+k677m0li6OtcxBFHby3iVrkZq2A@public.gmane.org> References: <428F6C2F13FE27489F9A679B6068767B0510C5B9@RED-MSG-50.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__39730.8469903239$1114241093$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Fri, 22 Apr 2005, Barnaby Jeans wrote: > Peter, > > If you have enabled SNMP on your router and set the appropriate > community name then you should be able to execute the following > (assuming you have the Net-SNMP utils) > > snmpwalk -c COMMUNITY_NAME -v 1 ROUTER_INTERNAL_IP ipAdEntAddr > > If you have every setup correctly you should get something similar to > the following: > > IP-MIB::ipAdEntAddr.x.x.x.x = IpAddress: x.x.x.x > IP-MIB::ipAdEntAddr.192.168.1.1 = IpAddress: 192.168.1.1 > > You should get 2 addresses back, one is obviously the internal address > of your router (which a quick grep -v would remove) and the other one > (with the x.x.x.x) will be the external IP of the router. > > If you want to get creative and see what other information is available, > simply re-run the command leaving off the ipAdEntAddr piece (snmpwalk -c > community_name -v 1 router_ip) > > Hope this helps. Ok, thanks. I was using a tool called neo which apparently does not have this capability. I will get snmpwalk and see if it works here (it should). thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 08:47:51 2005 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 04:47:51 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050422175707.GB2896-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:57:07PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:01:53PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On 4/22/05, William Park wrote: > > 4. Hosting of TLUG web site, mailing lists, and such. > > > > It's well and nice that this has been contributed freely; it's still > > something that has a not insubstantial cost. > > We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind their > machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo Group has link > page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I never used it). If > doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. Each person can > maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, and we can link it > from central site. My understanding is that you must supply accurate snippets of personal information and agree to receive advertising and other content that are customized based upon said personal information. Does nobody else find this offensive? If I access some portion of a website pertaining to TLUG, I consider any information about myself for customization purposes beyond being in/near Toronto and interested in Linux to be none of their damned business! I feel strongly enough about this that I'm willing to pony up some cash to prevent this from happening. I personally perceive the value of a year of the TLUG mailing list to be of the order of magnitude of at least that of a good O'Reilly book. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 15:40:15 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 10:40:15 -0500 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050423084751.GN76954-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: On 4/23/05, Steve Harvey wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:57:07PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:01:53PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > On 4/22/05, William Park wrote: > > > 4. Hosting of TLUG web site, mailing lists, and such. > > > > > > It's well and nice that this has been contributed freely; it's still > > > something that has a not insubstantial cost. > > > > We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind their > > machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo Group has link > > page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I never used it). If > > doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. Each person can > > maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, and we can link it > > from central site. > > My understanding is that you must supply accurate snippets of personal > information and agree to receive advertising and other content that are > customized based upon said personal information. Does nobody else find > this offensive? If I access some portion of a website pertaining to > TLUG, I consider any information about myself for customization purposes > beyond being in/near Toronto and interested in Linux to be none of their > damned business! > > I feel strongly enough about this that I'm willing to pony up some > cash to prevent this from happening. I personally perceive the value of > a year of the TLUG mailing list to be of the order of magnitude of at > least that of a good O'Reilly book. > I too would be pleased to keep this "in house". It seems only right. I also would pony up to help the cause. How significant is the bandwidth and computing power anyway? Sure, it's non-trivial, but it's like $40 a month for a basic adsl connection.. and we can all chip in or donate parts to build a spare computer just for this purpose if we need. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 16:02:27 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 12:02:27 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050423084751.GN76954-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org>; from sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI@public.gmane.org on Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 04:47:51AM -0400 References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20050423120227.B3027@diamond.ss.org> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 04:47:51AM -0400, Steve Harvey wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:57:07PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:01:53PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > > > On 4/22/05, William Park wrote: > > > 4. Hosting of TLUG web site, mailing lists, and such. > > > > > > It's well and nice that this has been contributed freely; it's still > > > something that has a not insubstantial cost. > > > > We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind their > > machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo Group has link > > page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I never used it). If > > doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. Each person can > > maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, and we can link it > > from central site. > > My understanding is that you must supply accurate snippets of personal > information and agree to receive advertising and other content that are > customized based upon said personal information. Does nobody else find > this offensive? If I access some portion of a website pertaining to > TLUG, I consider any information about myself for customization purposes > beyond being in/near Toronto and interested in Linux to be none of their > damned business! > > I feel strongly enough about this that I'm willing to pony up some > cash to prevent this from happening. I personally perceive the value of > a year of the TLUG mailing list to be of the order of magnitude of at > least that of a good O'Reilly book. > That was the whole idea behind the $20. For legal reasons the membership dues can't be zero, so we made a descision (I was one of those people) that it be a token amount. If you don't get 10 cents of entertainment a day from being on this mailing list what are you doing here? Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 15:59:06 2005 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Ray Payne) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:59:06 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050421195311.GA4615-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I'm new to the list and have yet to make it to a meeting, so take this as being as uninformed an opinion as possible. I have no idea of what exactly to expect at the meetings, but I know I'd definitely be interested in tutorial type meetings. I would also hope that there is a social aspect to the meetings so I don't feel more inclined to just put in a CBT CD when I'm debating the drive downtown. As for the topic of membership dues, there is always an issue to start charging people for something that use to be free. Either people tend to resist the change, or they want to know exactly why the money is needed now and where it's going. I've seen other organizations work where there is a donation system in place with a recommended donation amount instead of a membership. Without knowing the demographics of the group I can't say if that should work or not in this case. I know I'd have no issue making donations to attend meetings that were aiding in my learning, or helping cover the costs of supporting a group that I'm getting other forms of benefit from. Ray -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of William Park Sent: Thursday, April 21, 2005 3:53 PM To: TLUG-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? One recurring theme during Linux World Trade Show was "What does TLUG do for me?" This was a difficult question to answer. There are things that TLUG does, of course, such as - presentation by speaker - beer - Q&A during the meeting and on mailing list But, definitely, not worth $20 membership. People truly don't give shit about the laundry list of expenses. "Your expense is your business. What do I get for $20?" is people's bottom line. Social component of TLUG meetings works only for core people, and even this works only up to certain size. This is why TLUG has not grown, considering Toronto's population and increasing Linux awareness. I got the feeling that everyone at the show sensed that Linux explosion is about to happen, and were trying to position themselves. We also need to get our acts together. With that in mind, I would like some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. 1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. The collective experience and knowledge of TLUG members are pretty impressive. There are some things that each person knows quite well. And, it would be nice to see if we can arrange some kind of "tutorial" for the benefit of others. A narrowly focused subtopic would be better suited. For example, Python is too big to chew in one sitting, but Python interface to PostgreSQL might be narrow enough for single tutorial, ie. - modules you use, - parameters available, - syntax, and sample usages So, do you prefer short tutorials on various topics? 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? They do that in churches (I've heard), so I shouldn't be accused of being a Hun anti-christ or something. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 16:17:35 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 12:17:35 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: ; from ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ@public.gmane.org on Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 11:59:06AM -0400 References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050423121735.C3027@diamond.ss.org> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 11:59:06AM -0400, Ray Payne wrote: > I'm new to the list and have yet to make it to a meeting, so take this as > being as uninformed an opinion as possible. I have no idea of what exactly > to expect at the meetings, but I know I'd definitely be interested in > tutorial type meetings. I would also hope that there is a social aspect to > the meetings so I don't feel more inclined to just put in a CBT CD when I'm > debating the drive downtown. > > As for the topic of membership dues, there is always an issue to start > charging people for something that use to be free. Either people tend to > resist the change, or they want to know exactly why the money is needed now > and where it's going. I've seen other organizations work where there is a > donation system in place with a recommended donation amount instead of a > membership. Without knowing the demographics of the group I can't say if > that should work or not in this case. I know I'd have no issue making > donations to attend meetings that were aiding in my learning, or helping > cover the costs of supporting a group that I'm getting other forms of > benefit from. > > Ray > Please remember there will never be a cost to being on this list. The cost of bandwidth and the computer is being paid for other reasons, so the mailing list is not a problem. The membership dues are to cover costs that at one point in time were zero but now aren't anymore. The due is also there to allow some level of freedom to run events without having to run for donations or expect the usual group of people to subisidize it. The due is there to pay for the special things that the organization is presently doing without. (For example the projector at meetings). Finally membership is still voluntary. The only privilege it gives you is the right to vote for the directors and the right to run as a director. perhaps in the future there may be other 'members only' things but for the moment there is no plans for that. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 16:27:32 2005 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 12:27:32 -0400 Subject: Obtaining router external address In-Reply-To: <6d79206c6974746c-aAzQ54TRRcg11FJ3OCGpZIeKlevqwCZs@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> Message-ID: <200504231227.32535.anton@truxtar.com> On April 22, 2005 15:27, Peter wrote: > Hi all, > > we had this thread about getting the address of the router from the lan > side. Solutions involving parsing the response of an external site were > recorded. I am using such a solution. However, someone said he can > obtain it using SNMP. I just tried and I can't on my router. Would the > person like to share that information here ? I think I am the person you are referring to :) I don't remember the exact procedure (and I don't use the router any more), but here is now I got my Linksys router to send data via SNMP: In the router configuration page, I set it to send "log information" to my computer (using internal IP of the computer). I then installed a program called "snmptrap" and "linksysmon". Linksysmon uses snmptrap to "trap" data sent by the router, and write it to a log file. While obtaining the outside IP was not my goal (I have a static IP), I did see somewhere in the linksysmon manual how to enable some hidden options in the router, allowing it to send it's whole syslog-like output, not just the connection log. Using this option, I remember seeing my external IP mentioned (obviously it never changed). Again, I am not sure how to extend this solution to other routers. -- Anton Markov <("anton.markov" + "@gmail" + ".com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 "LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU" -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 17:21:35 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 13:21:35 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050423084751.GN76954-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20050423172135.GA2398@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 04:47:51AM -0400, Steve Harvey wrote: > > We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind > > their machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo > > Group has link page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I > > never used it). If doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. > > Each person can maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, > > and we can link it from central site. > > My understanding is that you must supply accurate snippets of > personal information and agree to receive advertising and other > content that are customized based upon said personal information. The best way is to get office and setup our own server, so that we have physically access to the machine. Again, this requires something that TLUG don't have (ie. money). -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 18:13:32 2005 From: sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Sy) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 11:13:32 -0700 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050423172135.GA2398-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> <20050423172135.GA2398@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On 4/23/05, William Park wrote: > On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 04:47:51AM -0400, Steve Harvey wrote: > > > We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind > > > their machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo > > > Group has link page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I > > > never used it). If doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. > > > Each person can maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, > > > and we can link it from central site. > > > > My understanding is that you must supply accurate snippets of > > personal information and agree to receive advertising and other > > content that are customized based upon said personal information. > > The best way is to get office and setup our own server, so that we have > physically access to the machine. Again, this requires something that > TLUG don't have (ie. money). I'm surprized that this isn't already the case. Are this mailing list and the website running on someone's work or school machine somewhere? What kind of kick does a simple setup need? Not much.. a pentium two would do. I can donate some parts. Heck, I have spare boxes at work I can borrow and not return. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 18:22:39 2005 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:22:39 -0400 Subject: DHCP No free leases Message-ID: <8eb589e05042311222cf68545@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am trying to set up LTSP and boot one of my computers as a thin client, however after setting up dhcpd.conf and booting the thin client (using PXE), I get the error in the logs filess DHCPDISCOVER from 00:07:e9:d2:6b:3a via eth0: network WORKSTATIONS: no free leases This is my currrent conf file # Sample configuration file for ISCD dhcpd # # Make changes to this file and copy it to /etc/dhcpd.conf # ddns-update-style none; default-lease-time 21000; max-lease-time 21000; option subnet-mask 1.1.1.1 ; option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255 ; option routers 192.168.0.100 ; option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.100 ; option domain-name "mydomain.com "; option root-path "192.168.0.100:/opt/ltsp/i386"; option option-128 code 128 = string; option option-129 code 129 = text; shared-network WORKSTATIONS { subnet 1.1.1.1 netmask 1.1.1.1 { } } group{ use-host-decl-names on; option log-servers 192.168.0.100 ; host ws001 { hardware ethernet 00:07:e9:d2:6b:3a; fixed-address 192.168.0.1 ; filename "/lts/vmlinuz-2.4.22-ltsp-1"; } } Thanks, Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 18:29:53 2005 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 14:29:53 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> <20050423172135.GA2398@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050423182953.GA2731@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 11:13:32AM -0700, Sy wrote: > > The best way is to get office and setup our own server, so that we > > have physically access to the machine. Again, this requires > > something that TLUG don't have (ie. money). > > I'm surprized that this isn't already the case. Are this mailing list > and the website running on someone's work or school machine somewhere? > > What kind of kick does a simple setup need? Not much.. a pentium two > would do. I can donate some parts. Heck, I have spare boxes at work > I can borrow and not return. What I mean is, TLUG doesn't have an office. -- William Park , Toronto, Canada Slackware Linux -- because it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 19:18:03 2005 From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:18:03 -0400 Subject: Knoppix HD update Message-ID: <20050423151803.5a27ffbb@pino> Knoppix was cool, I installed it onto my hard drive about a year ago. I've easily kept most packages up to date with kpackage manager (apt-get). Newer versions of Knoppix and kernel are now available and I can't figure out how to "simply" update the system without going through a fresh HD install and copying all my installed programs over to the new system. I now have this kernel: kernel-image-2.4.20-xfs None of the newer Debian kernels seem to work for me, i.e mouse and/or audio does not work. However, the latest Knoppix Live CD works fine on my system. I don't think I have to go through the hours required to setup/compile a new kernel, but that seems to be only solution aside from re-installing Knoppix. Thanks for listening, Anthony Tekatch http://www.unihedron.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 19:19:48 2005 From: ray-UsHhwO8CmvuakBO8gow8eQ at public.gmane.org (Ray Payne) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:19:48 -0400 Subject: Knoppix not recognizing WLAN cards In-Reply-To: <20050423182953.GA2731-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050423182953.GA2731@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: I've done some hunting with google and seem to have come up short on this. I'm continuing to hunt, but I'm hoping someone may have an easy answer. Since I'm just starting to play around with Linux I figured the Knoppix (3.8.1) live CD was a good way to start since it's self contained. My problem is that my wireless card doesn't work on it. (Cisco CB21-AG). I tried an old D-Link card (DWL-650) also with no luck. I put both cards in at the same time for lspci just in case that provides anything useful. Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated since I'd like to not use my desktop PC just because that's used for work as well... Thanks in advance, Ray -------------------- root at 1[knoppix]# lspci -v 0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX Host bridge (rev 03) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64 Memory at e0000000 (32-bit, prefetchable) [size=64M] Capabilities: [a0] AGP version 1.0 0000:00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. 440BX/ZX/DX - 82443BX/ZX/DX AGP bridge (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [Normal decode]) Flags: bus master, 66MHz, medium devsel, latency 128 Bus: primary=00, secondary=01, subordinate=01, sec-latency=64 I/O behind bridge: 00002000-00002fff Memory behind bridge: fc100000-fdffffff 0000:00:04.0 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1225 (rev 01) Subsystem: Dell: Unknown device 009e Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 11 Memory at 10000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Bus: primary=00, secondary=02, subordinate=05, sec-latency=176 Memory window 0: 10400000-107ff000 (prefetchable) Memory window 1: 10800000-10bff000 I/O window 0: 00004000-000040ff I/O window 1: 00004400-000044ff 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 0000:00:04.1 CardBus bridge: Texas Instruments PCI1225 (rev 01) Subsystem: Dell: Unknown device 009e Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 168, IRQ 11 Memory at 10001000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Bus: primary=00, secondary=06, subordinate=09, sec-latency=176 Memory window 0: 10c00000-10fff000 (prefetchable) Memory window 1: 11000000-113ff000 I/O window 0: 00004800-000048ff I/O window 1: 00004c00-00004cff 16-bit legacy interface ports at 0001 0000:00:07.0 Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ISA (rev 02) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 0 0000:00:07.1 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 IDE (rev 01) (prog-if 80 [Master]) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64 I/O ports at 1090 [size=16] 0000:00:07.2 USB Controller: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 USB (rev 01) (prog-if 00 [UHCI]) Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 5 I/O ports at 1060 [size=32] 0000:00:07.3 Bridge: Intel Corp. 82371AB/EB/MB PIIX4 ACPI (rev 02) Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 9 0000:00:08.0 Multimedia audio controller: ESS Technology ES1978 Maestro 2E (rev 10) Subsystem: Dell: Unknown device 009e Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 64, IRQ 5 I/O ports at 1400 [size=256] Capabilities: [c0] Power Management version 2 0000:00:10.0 Communication controller: Lucent Microelectronics WinModem 56k (rev 01) Subsystem: Actiontec Electronics Inc: Unknown device 2100 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 5 Memory at fc000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=256] I/O ports at 1080 [size=8] I/O ports at 1800 [size=256] Capabilities: [f8] Power Management version 2 0000:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc Rage Mobility P/M AGP 2x (rev 64) (prog-if 00 [VGA]) Subsystem: Dell: Unknown device 009e Flags: bus master, stepping, medium devsel, latency 66, IRQ 11 Memory at fd000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16M] I/O ports at 2000 [size=256] Memory at fc100000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: [50] AGP version 1.0 Capabilities: [5c] Power Management version 1 0000:02:00.0 Ethernet controller: Atheros Communications, Inc. AR5212 802.11abg NIC (rev 01) Subsystem: AIRONET Wireless Communications: Unknown device cb21 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 11 Memory at 10800000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [disabled] [size=64K] Capabilities: [44] Power Management version 2 0000:06:00.0 Ethernet controller: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. RTL8180L 802.11b MAC (rev 20) Subsystem: D-Link System Inc: Unknown device 3302 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 11 I/O ports at 4800 [disabled] [size=256] Memory at 11000000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [disabled] [size=512] Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 19:42:29 2005 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:42:29 +0000 Subject: Knoppix not recognizing WLAN cards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200504231542.29599.jason@detachednetworks.ca> On April 23, 2005 03:19 pm, Ray Payne wrote: > I've done some hunting with google and seem to have come up short on this. > I'm continuing to hunt, but I'm hoping someone may have an easy answer. > Since I'm just starting to play around with Linux I figured the Knoppix > (3.8.1) live CD was a good way to start since it's self contained. My > problem is that my wireless card doesn't work on it. (Cisco CB21-AG). I > tried an old D-Link card (DWL-650) also with no luck. I put both cards in > at the same time for lspci just in case that provides anything useful. > > Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated since I'd like to not use > my desktop PC just because that's used for work as well... > > Thanks in advance, > > Ray > > > Knoppix has its own wlan / network configuration tools. Are you using that? The wlan network does not autoconfigure itsef on boot. Jason Shein Director of Networking, Operations and Systems Detached Networks jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org ( 905 ) - 876 - 4158 Voice ( 905 ) - 876 - 5817 Mobile http://www.detachednetworks.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 19:35:16 2005 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:35:16 -0400 Subject: Fedora - Trouble with fstab-sync Message-ID: <426A6B34.3174.B9E28@localhost> Hello I was wondering if someone can impart some wisdom regarding fstab-sync. I want to edit /etc/fstab to get some partitions to mount that wouldn't mount under Disk Druid. But Fedora decided to introduce a new "innovation" which prevents direct repair of any problem. This seems to be the role of fstab-sync. So what do I do now? I have a bunch of partitions under hdb that contain my /home and /usr/local partitions, among other things. And, I was also wondering how safe it is to place /var on its own partition? Paul========================================================= Paul King http://alimentarus.net "Due to circumstances beyond our control, we are captains of our fate and masters of our soul" -- Unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 19:54:26 2005 From: billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (billt-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 15:54:26 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: ; from sy1235-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 11:13:32AM -0700 References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> <20050423172135.GA2398@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20050423155426.D3027@diamond.ss.org> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 11:13:32AM -0700, Sy wrote: > On 4/23/05, William Park wrote: > > On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 04:47:51AM -0400, Steve Harvey wrote: > > > > We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind > > > > their machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo > > > > Group has link page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I > > > > never used it). If doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. > > > > Each person can maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, > > > > and we can link it from central site. > > > > > > My understanding is that you must supply accurate snippets of > > > personal information and agree to receive advertising and other > > > content that are customized based upon said personal information. > > > > The best way is to get office and setup our own server, so that we have > > physically access to the machine. Again, this requires something that > > TLUG don't have (ie. money). > > I'm surprized that this isn't already the case. Are this mailing list > and the website running on someone's work or school machine somewhere? > > What kind of kick does a simple setup need? Not much.. a pentium two > would do. I can donate some parts. Heck, I have spare boxes at work > I can borrow and not return. At the moment the mailing list is on a web server that has about a dozen websites. Its in a basement, and the care and feeding of it has to be paid for anyway, so the mailing list is not adding any significant costs. Even if this machine is to go down, there is literally a half dozen people that can host it. One of the things TLUG has plenty of is IT infrastructure. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 19:48:59 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 22:48:59 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Obtaining router external address In-Reply-To: <200504231227.32535.anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <6d79206c6974746c@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> <200504231227.32535.anton@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__19939.1478825875$1114285449$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005, Anton Markov wrote: > I think I am the person you are referring to :) Maybe, I think it was the other poster who responded earlier. > In the router configuration page, I set it to send "log information" to my > computer (using internal IP of the computer). I then installed a program > called "snmptrap" and "linksysmon". I also have the log information options but my router is not linksys. I thought the log information refers to remote logging. I will now try to elucidate the matter. > Linksysmon uses snmptrap to "trap" data sent by the router, and write it to a > log file. While obtaining the outside IP was not my goal (I have a static > IP), I did see somewhere in the linksysmon manual how to enable some hidden > options in the router, allowing it to send it's whole syslog-like output, not > just the connection log. Using this option, I remember seeing my external IP > mentioned (obviously it never changed). > > Again, I am not sure how to extend this solution to other routers. Ok, thanks, I will take it from there. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 20:06:38 2005 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:06:38 +0300 (IDT) Subject: Knoppix HD update In-Reply-To: <20050423151803.5a27ffbb@pino> References: <20050423151803.5a27ffbb@pino> Message-ID: <6d79206c6974746c__12651.4721465812$1114286518$gmane$org@lxv.xmglt.mgy.gnqi> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005, Anthony Tekatch wrote: > Knoppix was cool, I installed it onto my hard drive about a year ago. I've > easily kept most packages up to date with kpackage manager (apt-get). > > Newer versions of Knoppix and kernel are now available and I can't figure > out how to "simply" update the system without going through a fresh HD > install and copying all my installed programs over to the new system. > > I now have this kernel: > kernel-image-2.4.20-xfs > > None of the newer Debian kernels seem to work for me, i.e mouse and/or > audio does not work. However, the latest Knoppix Live CD works fine on my > system. > > I don't think I have to go through the hours required to setup/compile a > new kernel, but that seems to be only solution aside from re-installing > Knoppix. You have a module compatibility problem most likely. Boot a new knoppix cd, become root and do a lsmod. Capture that output. Then boot to your system and do the same. Locate the differences and fix them. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 21:05:18 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 17:05:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Anyone in for a new business? Message-ID: <20050423210518.29787.qmail@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> Hello, sorry if this is off-topic. I??m a software engineer newcomer to Toronto and I??d like to find people that want to go into an Open Source service business. I??ve been working professionally with Linux, databases and networking for over 7 years. The objective is to form an organization based in GTA/Southern ON (traditional company /co-op/ association of consultants) to do what we love and make money. The ideal ??requirements?? I have in mind are: - 3 or 4 core people of complementary skills. - starting with little money and little expenses, from our houses - Planning to turn a profit in the short term (~ 6 months / 1 year) - Therefore based on open source services/consulting, not a new software product. - This service being offered should be focused or specialized for business differentiation, and something that potential customers currently want, not a new unproven idea. - Clearly determined and measurable plans & objectives. If you are interested please email me for a more detailed discussion. Thanks. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 22:04:17 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:04:17 -0400 Subject: Anyone in for a new business? In-Reply-To: <20050423210518.29787.qmail-FEj/TcKwS9CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050423210518.29787.qmail@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <426AC661.6020109@istop.com> F. Duran wrote: > Hello, sorry if this is off-topic. who cares... ;) > If you are interested please email me for a more > detailed discussion. So, I do. Please reply. > Thanks. Not at all. No problem. Go to hell. Or please work for us. Doesnt matter. > Do You Yahoo!? No. > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around There is no such thing as spam protection. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kaszac-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 22:08:28 2005 From: kaszac-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Kasza) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Anyone in for a new business? In-Reply-To: 6667 Message-ID: <20050423220828.8792.qmail@web40605.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I'd be interested in teaming up with you and some other guys on something like this. My knowledge focuses on LAMP, Linux administration, and general networking. I don't have as much professional experience as you, though. I've just finished up a college course focused on OSS and am avid home user. Your plans for this company resonate with my ideas, though, and if you'd be willing to take on a somewhat green partner, I'm interested in chatting more about it. -Chris --- "F. Duran" wrote: > Hello, sorry if this is off-topic. > > I??m a software engineer newcomer to Toronto and I??d > like to find people that want to go into an Open > Source service business. I??ve been working > professionally with Linux, databases and networking > for over 7 years. > > The objective is to form an organization based in > GTA/Southern ON (traditional company /co-op/ > association of consultants) to do what we love and > make money. > > The ideal ??requirements?? I have in mind are: > > - 3 or 4 core people of complementary skills. > - starting with little money and little expenses, > from > our houses > - Planning to turn a profit in the short term (~ 6 > months / 1 year) > - Therefore based on open source > services/consulting, > not a new software product. > - This service being offered should be focused or > specialized for business differentiation, and > something that potential customers currently want, > not > a new unproven idea. > - Clearly determined and measurable plans & > objectives. > > If you are interested please email me for a more > detailed discussion. > > Thanks. > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > http://mail.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 22:14:18 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 18:14:18 -0400 Subject: Anyone in for a new business? In-Reply-To: <20050423220828.8792.qmail-o4CqdCmJv4+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050423220828.8792.qmail@web40605.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <426AC8BA.9020206@istop.com> Kasza wrote: > Hi, > I'd be interested in teaming up with you and some > other guys on something like this. My knowledge > focuses on LAMP, Linux administration, and general > networking. I don't have as much professional > experience as you, though. I've just finished up a > college course focused on OSS and am avid home user. > Your plans for this company resonate with my ideas, > though, and if you'd be willing to take on a somewhat > green partner, I'm interested in chatting more about > it. Thank you. You are taken. 30 C$ per hour is ok? Part time. 2 h per month. Unfortunately I do not pay travel costs. > -Chris zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 23:16:41 2005 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:16:41 -0400 Subject: Anyone in for a new business? In-Reply-To: <426AC661.6020109-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050423210518.29787.qmail@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> <426AC661.6020109@istop.com> Message-ID: <426AD759.50509@sympatico.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > who cares... ;) > > So, I do. Please reply. > > Not at all. No problem. Go to hell. Or please work for us. Doesnt matter. > >> Do You Yahoo!? > > > No. > >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around > > > There is no such thing as spam protection. yer killin be, zb ! stop ! ohh my sides ! :-D djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Apr 23 23:51:55 2005 From: liberosec-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (F. Duran) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 19:51:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Anyone in for a new business? (2) Message-ID: <20050423235155.50085.qmail@web60115.mail.yahoo.com> I got several replies (that was unexpected, I don't know if that's good or bad), just give me a second to answer each of you one by one. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 24 01:01:06 2005 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:01:06 -0400 Subject: Anyone in for a new business? (2) In-Reply-To: <20050423235155.50085.qmail-ui9BAWvPETuA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20050423235155.50085.qmail@web60115.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <426AEFD2.3090603@istop.com> F. Duran wrote: > I got several replies (that was unexpected, I don't > know if that's good or bad), just give me a second to > answer each of you one by one. Usually, two responses means good. Less that that or more than that means bad. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 24 03:04:00 2005 From: cbbrowne-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:04:00 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <426958C5.8020503-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <426958C5.8020503@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On 4/22/05, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Speaking of tutorials, I bet that Chris could be convinced to give a > talk on the inner workings of slony (the async postgres replication > system). While plausible, I think the folks interested in "inner workings" are the ones that came to Toronto back in January to talk about Slony-II. And I'm certainly not doing the "inner workings" talk until I get around to doing some of the post-1.1 work on the "inner guts." There would definitely be considerable value in doing something relatively introductory on Slony-I so as to expand the set of people that know something about it. That's what I'm preparing for OSCON, and it is worthy of note for those that are looking for "things possibly worth dollars" that SRA America (a Japanese company that is doing a lot of PostgreSQL deployments) has lately been trying to recruit people with Slony-I expertise. (Pulling them to the Big Apple, not to Toronto, so that's arguably distant...) There is something of a "nexus of interest" here in Toronto, in that I can think of three separate places where it's in use: 1. Afilias, obviously :-) 2. Rod Taylor, one of the PostgreSQL core that has sometimes done contract work for RHAT, went to the extent of "hacking up" a version of Slony-I to get it to work on PostgreSQL 7.2 to help one of his clients upgrade to a new version of PostgreSQL. He's somewhere midtown. 3. Darcy Cain has been pretty avid, if not too visible lately. (I last saw him at BSDCan last May; he was making very interested noises back when Slony-I was only half-working...) Add anyone else, and they might even become an excuse for SRA to open a Canadian division ;-). -- http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html "The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good." -- Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 24 03:13:56 2005 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:13:56 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050423084751.GN76954-bEteefDXIgtmcu3hnIyYJQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422175707.GB2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050423084751.GN76954@shell.vex.net> Message-ID: <20050424031356.GA31058@bangthedrum.net> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 04:47:51AM -0400, Steve Harvey wrote: > On Fri, Apr 22, 2005 at 01:57:07PM -0400, William Park wrote: [snip] > > We can move the mailing list to Yahoo. They got $Billion behind their > > machines, and you can't beat that. As for website, Yahoo Group has link > > page, so you can link to secondary websites. (I never used it). If > > doable, then this actually is not be a bad idea. Each person can > > maintain only the stuff they are responsible for, and we can link it > > from central site. > > My understanding is that you must supply accurate snippets of personal > information and agree to receive advertising and other content that are > customized based upon said personal information. Does nobody else find > this offensive? If I access some portion of a website pertaining to > TLUG, I consider any information about myself for customization purposes > beyond being in/near Toronto and interested in Linux to be none of their > damned business! I belong to several Yahoo Groups and I haven't had to supply any personal info and I don't get spam from Yahoo so I don't think your understanding is correct. Also, people often think that you need a Yahoo email address to join the groups but this isn't the case. I use Yahoo Calender and recently realized that events added to the group calendar are automatically added to the group members' calendars - a simple but convenient feature. The one downside to Yahoo is the advertising you periodically have to read when reading the list at the site but you can always read it at Gmane instead. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 24 15:14:46 2005 From: kburtch-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ken O. Burtch) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 08:14:46 -0700 Subject: A short list of things I want out of TLUG In-Reply-To: References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422060611.GA7698@node1.opengeometry.net> <20050422163839.GA2450@node1.opengeometry.net> <2A8619FA-B353-11D9-A704-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <20050422175940.GC2896@node1.opengeometry.net> <4269B07F.30907@golden.net> Message-ID: <1114355686.4355.11.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> On Fri, 2005-04-22 at 20:42, Sy wrote: [snip] > 1) To be introduced to new software and methods. > 2) To spend some time out of the house, breathing fresh air and > meeting interesting new people. > 3) To be motivated and enlightened by wiser people. > 4) To make friends such that I may one day could lean on them for > technical advice and support. > 5) To give back to society at large. Sounds like PegaSoft, except PegaSoft is focused on Linux software development and contracting professionals, not casual users. Ken B. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Apr 24 22:24:17 2005 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:24:17 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub - clarification In-Reply-To: <1113390912.14069.9.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050413040025.GA2424@node1.opengeometry.net> <1113390912.14069.9.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <200504241824.17867.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On April 13, 2005 07:15 am, Alan Cohen wrote: > Clarification: > If I ever DO have to use the backup (because the "main" IDE goes bad), > the IDE disk in the USB enclosure (/dev/sda while in the USB enclosure) > will be removed and placed in the main box thus becoming /dev/hda ! So, > what I need to do is to insure that it will be bootable as a regular IDE > disk when that happens. I expect (especially since you use grub) that you might be able to just duplicate the MBR. Wild guess: dd bs=512 count=1 < /dev/hda > /dev/sda To make it clear that this is a wild guess let me mention some concerns ;-) - no idea if 512 bytes is correct size - due to above, could destroy data on removable IDE - removable drive geometry may have to be the same (or similar) to fixed drive -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 03:01:48 2005 From: interlug-vSRlqIl1h/9eoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org (interlug-list) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:01:48 -0400 Subject: (poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <20050421195311.GA4615-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1114398108.31703.442.camel@holden.weait.net> On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 15:53, William Park wrote: > With that in mind, I would like > some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. [ ... ] It feels like our attendance (at KWLUG http://www.kwlug.org/ ) is up in the last year. I've asked for the data so perhaps I'll be able to support what is at the moment, a hunch. One change we've made is having the topic and presenter listed early and prominently on the web site. Recently we were overrun for a presentation on MythTV. Everybody seemed to have that one their calendar as "Can't miss this meeting." > 1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. [ ... ] I enjoy presentations that tell a story. A presenter that sets a goal and then takes us there can be very interesting. > 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the > meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? I prefer free. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From GHunter-kgJIzn72htc at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 03:33:28 2005 From: GHunter-kgJIzn72htc at public.gmane.org (Geoffrey Hunter) Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 23:33:28 -0400 Subject: :(poll) What kind of meeting do you want? In-Reply-To: <1114398108.31703.442.camel-csCcNl6ta60tuqGvh5Fqhg@public.gmane.org> References: <20050421195311.GA4615@node1.opengeometry.net> <1114398108.31703.442.camel@holden.weait.net> Message-ID: <1114400008.426c6508bc7f2@webmail.yorku.ca> Here is my poll response (please do NOT reply to TLUG): The meeting on April 21st was extraordinarily well-attended, and was so boring that I left after about half-an-hour. I regard TLUG meetings as venues for the exchange of useful technical information - not commercially minded histories and anecdotes as on April 21st. Some months ago Damian Conway was great. You need a presentation to get attendee's minds on the subject, and afterwards lots of time for Q&A and discussion. On April 21st after saying to myself "cut the crap and get on with it" half a dozen times, I left, took the TTC and went home, sorry that I had stayed downtown after an afternoon of physics lectures finished at 5 O'Clock. Geoffrey Hunter email: GHunter-4mebg6r7xUY at public.gmane.org ___________________________________________ Quoting interlug-list : > On Thu, 2005-04-21 at 15:53, William Park wrote: > > With that in mind, I would like > > some feedback as to what we can do to bring new people in to TLUG. > [ ... ] > > It feels like our attendance (at KWLUG http://www.kwlug.org/ ) is up in > the last year. I've asked for the data so perhaps I'll be able to > support what is at the moment, a hunch. One change we've made is having > the topic and presenter listed early and prominently on the web site. > Recently we were overrun for a presentation on MythTV. Everybody seemed > to have that one their calendar as "Can't miss this meeting." > > > 1. I've been chewing the idea of tutorial-style meeting for some time. > [ ... ] > > I enjoy presentations that tell a story. A presenter that sets a goal > and then takes us there can be very interesting. > > > 2. What do you think of collecting $1 from all attendees of the > > meeting, instead of $20 annual membership? > > I prefer free. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 04:05:33 2005 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 00:05:33 -0400 Subject: the web as a database In-Reply-To: <4266B250.5070005-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> <4266B250.5070005@istop.com> Message-ID: The new "local results" section of google is doing a pretty good job for me. Maybe a wrapper to automate the process, if you are looking for lists of specific establishments across towns??? -Joseph- On 4/20/05, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Just an idea. May be someone will want to comment? > > Wouldnt it be wonderful that after typing a complex SQL-like query to > Google I get a precise response with listing of all web pages on the > Internet that contain a relevant information that interests me? > > The problem is that Google-like search engines index the content of HTML > pages. And HTML was designed to hold information that is supposed to be > displayed in the browser. It was not designed to categorise that > information. The HTML meta-tags like keywords and description are merely > an attempt only to ad some categorization but a poor attempt. Thats why > good search engines do not treat their content very seriously. > > Lets take as an example: for some reason I wanted to build a database of > all physics laboratories in the world. I would like to know where are > they located (country, state/province, exact address, what are the main > subjects of their research, whom to contact there for information, what > are the names of main researches, etc.) In principle all this > information does exist already on the web. I do not need to explain > however that it is extremally tudios and time-consuming task to find it > out and categorise. > > Hence, I am talking about a new sort of the web functionality. Where the > data could be taken out off, reworked, and displayed in a different way. > > Some may suggest the use of XML. Probably a good idea. I do not have > however a general understanding of what is behind XML. In principle, I > imagine, web sites could have a special file hosted on their server that > would contain a detailed information about the content of these web > sites, or at least about the company. Like in the example above. A sort > of like now /robots.txt is used, or newsfeed.xml . > > Is there no other way? > > If somebody would be interested in working with me on introducing that > sort of new technology - please write. I have already some poor ideas > how to do that. But I still am very interested in hearing your comments. > The subject seems to be original, with a huge possible impact on the web > development. A sort of like creating a new standard. > > zb. > -- > Zbigniew Koziol, SoftQuake^(tm) Open Source Business Solutions > Web Development, Linux, Web Mail Fax Voice Servers, Networking > Consultations, Innovative Technologies Tel/Fax: 1-416-530-2780 > Toronto, Canada, http://www.softquake.ca, info-lcEyp1+e+UdAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 12:28:19 2005 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 08:28:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: April 26th. NewTLUG meeting: Knoppix Toolbox (reminder) Message-ID: This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues April 26th., at the IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave E. **Important** all attendees will be required to have a security badge. Badges should be prepared in advance. If you plan to attend, please send your name to Paul (off-list at ) preferably, before Monday April 25. ...and please be sure to return badges to the front reception at the end of the session. Thanks: to Paul for helping NewTLUG not only by arranging for a room and hosting our meetings at IBM but also with looking after the badges. Badges: please email Paul Mora to pre-register Date: Tues April 26th. Time: 7-10pm Presenter: Colin McGregor Topic: Knoppix Toolbox - use of the Knoppix distribution / CD as a: 1) basis for a custom OS edition for special events 2) rescue disk (or "what to do when things go wrong") 3) live from CD Linux test drive / hardware test 4) a simplified means to permanently install Debian etc. Location: IBM offices 3600 Steeles Ave East, north side of Steeles at Pharmacy/Esna Park (between Victoria Park and Warden) http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?mapdata=nGCyq1371PhhgCmx6Z%2b1cDMK7StVSEOC8pv6WLEwpPl4J5csVKolXMC1br3AveG47eAtFWeuZ%2bwJ2KM5Oq7LBuLnoWwdmj0b8XrxuhJWdRt2Mc4gVOIEVqcICHRlLm6XTuuZzJMzAZAf3OoErhbEoEZ9FStAjnRb7vrPmDxfzc6Dkdp3pAlh6ZFovnxcYwyt1e0eUfOZpFdN4rspAMvur8zk2XOMgoEZ6s2G1gxGZI6fILrLIfssN9UqLRPAuYnV84Fbwn7amW8Y%2fM6NeCfvcJVGtRhNNBCahqzxnGwYk6G9JBDVKNwGC7biOuwnI5nkx95wKeq%2brOPhXzRb4XSHbA%3d%3d (sorry for the wrap) Directions: Meet at the front entrance well before 7:00pm (6:30 recommended) to pickup your ID badge. At about 7:00 we'll be escorted to the auditorium. Some provision will be made for anyone arriving a little late. Parking: Parking is available in the visitor parkade from 6:00pm to 11:00pm. --- Herb Richter Richter Equipment, Toronto, Ontario http://PartsAndService.com http://PartsAndService.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 13:09:05 2005 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 09:09:05 -0400 Subject: Unicode-capable, sans-serif terminal fonts? Message-ID: <20050425130905.GA11070@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have recently switched to using UTF-8 on my system, and so far everything (except Eterm, which I've abandoned for rxvt-unicode) seems to be working. What I want to do now is see if I can make my terminals a little nicer to read and look at. What I'd like is an attractive, sans-serif Unicode-capable font for my terminal windows, anti-aliased if at all possible. I'm using fixed right now, and it's well-named, because it is far from broken, but it isn't pretty. At work I log into my machine via putty, and I get Lucida Console, and while not wonderful, it is much better than fixed. I'm using rxvt-unicode as my terminal emulator, if that's relevant. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 14:29:58 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 10:29:58 -0400 Subject: Unicode-capable, sans-serif terminal fonts? In-Reply-To: <20050425130905.GA11070-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050425130905.GA11070@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <426CFEE6.7050808@md5.ca> William O'Higgins wrote: >I have recently switched to using UTF-8 on my system, and so far >everything (except Eterm, which I've abandoned for rxvt-unicode) seems >to be working. What I want to do now is see if I can make my terminals >a little nicer to read and look at. > >What I'd like is an attractive, sans-serif Unicode-capable font for my >terminal windows, anti-aliased if at all possible. I'm using fixed >right now, and it's well-named, because it is far from broken, but it >isn't pretty. > >At work I log into my machine via putty, and I get Lucida Console, and >while not wonderful, it is much better than fixed. > >I'm using rxvt-unicode as my terminal emulator, if that's relevant. >Thanks. > > You might want to try corefonts, that is Andale Mono. I am not sure what would work for you for asian fonts however. Thee is Mikachan for that, but it looks a bit handwritten with english letters. I am using gentoo so: emerge media-fonts/mikachan-font media-fonts/corefonts later, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 15:07:03 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unicode-capable, sans-serif terminal fonts? In-Reply-To: <20050425130905.GA11070-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050425130905.GA11070@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, William O'Higgins wrote: > What I'd like is an attractive, sans-serif Unicode-capable font for my > terminal windows, anti-aliased if at all possible. > ... > I'm using rxvt-unicode as my terminal emulator, if that's relevant. To the best of my knowledge, rxvt is not capable of rendering anti-aliased fonts. My 2 cents. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 15:59:39 2005 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 11:59:39 -0400 Subject: Unicode-capable, sans-serif terminal fonts? In-Reply-To: <20050425130905.GA11070-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050425130905.GA11070@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <426D13EB.7000009@sympatico.ca> William O'Higgins wrote: > > What I'd like is an attractive, sans-serif Unicode-capable font for my > terminal windows, anti-aliased if at all possible. Okay, what subset of unicode do you want? A font containing every single glyph is huge (Bitstream Cyberbit -- the first complete Unicode font -- was 23MB as a TTF) and makes X go slow. So you probably want a font that has the glyphs you're likely to see. A good compromise between size and usefulness is the (gulp) MS WGL subset; all of the non-pi MS Corefonts have these. A good resource for finding what you're after is . Back when I really cared about phonetics (I still care, a bit) I found John Wells's IPA Transcription in Unicode page to be a handy pointer to stuff I could use. I tend to use Andale Mono, from corefonts, which you can probably get for your distro: cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:09:16 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:09:16 -0400 Subject: DHCP No free leases In-Reply-To: <8eb589e05042311222cf68545-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8eb589e05042311222cf68545@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20050425160916.GA28751@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 02:22:39PM -0400, jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi, I am trying to set up LTSP and boot one of my computers as a thin > client, however after setting up dhcpd.conf and booting the thin client > (using PXE), I get the error in the logs filess > > DHCPDISCOVER from 00:07:e9:d2:6b:3a via eth0: network WORKSTATIONS: no free > leases > > This is my currrent conf file > > # Sample configuration file for ISCD dhcpd > # > # Make changes to this file and copy it to /etc/dhcpd.conf > # > ddns-update-style none; > default-lease-time 21000; > max-lease-time 21000; > > option subnet-mask 1.1.1.1 ; > option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255 ; > option routers 192.168.0.100 ; > option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.100 ; > option domain-name "mydomain.com "; > option root-path "192.168.0.100:/opt/ltsp/i386"; > > option option-128 code 128 = string; > option option-129 code 129 = text; > > shared-network WORKSTATIONS { > subnet 1.1.1.1 netmask 1.1.1.1 { > > } > } > > group{ > use-host-decl-names on; > option log-servers 192.168.0.100 ; > > host ws001 { > hardware ethernet 00:07:e9:d2:6b:3a; > fixed-address 192.168.0.1 ; > filename "/lts/vmlinuz-2.4.22-ltsp-1"; > } > > > } Where is the 'range ip..ip' line that says what IPs the dhcp server has reserved for it's uses to hand out? Or are you only using ws001 with a specific mac address? Did you get the MAC address correct? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:10:30 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:10:30 -0400 Subject: Unicode-capable, sans-serif terminal fonts? In-Reply-To: <20050425130905.GA11070-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20050425130905.GA11070@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20050425161030.GB28751@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Apr 25, 2005 at 09:09:05AM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I have recently switched to using UTF-8 on my system, and so far > everything (except Eterm, which I've abandoned for rxvt-unicode) seems > to be working. What I want to do now is see if I can make my terminals > a little nicer to read and look at. > > What I'd like is an attractive, sans-serif Unicode-capable font for my > terminal windows, anti-aliased if at all possible. I'm using fixed > right now, and it's well-named, because it is far from broken, but it > isn't pretty. > > At work I log into my machine via putty, and I get Lucida Console, and > while not wonderful, it is much better than fixed. > > I'm using rxvt-unicode as my terminal emulator, if that's relevant. > Thanks. I think I use unicode, but I am not sure. I also have msttcorefonts installed so I am never entirely sure which font I am using. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:16:55 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:16:55 -0400 Subject: rsync & grub - clarification In-Reply-To: <200504241824.17867.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1113362632.7513.14.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20050413040025.GA2424@node1.opengeometry.net> <1113390912.14069.9.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <200504241824.17867.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20050425161654.GC28751@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Apr 24, 2005 at 06:24:17PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On April 13, 2005 07:15 am, Alan Cohen wrote: > > > Clarification: > > If I ever DO have to use the backup (because the "main" IDE goes bad), > > the IDE disk in the USB enclosure (/dev/sda while in the USB enclosure) > > will be removed and placed in the main box thus becoming /dev/hda ! So, > > what I need to do is to insure that it will be bootable as a regular IDE > > disk when that happens. > > I expect (especially since you use grub) that you might be able to just > duplicate the MBR. Wild guess: > > dd bs=512 count=1 < /dev/hda > /dev/sda Only valid if you also cloned the partitions from one to the other (bit for bit), since grub does hardcode the location of stage2 when installing stage1. use grub-install /dev/sda --root-directory /mnt/to/sda/root/partition > To make it clear that this is a wild guess let me mention some concerns ;-) > > - no idea if 512 bytes is correct size > - due to above, could destroy data on removable IDE > - removable drive geometry may have to be the same (or similar) to fixed drive If grub is installed with the right --root-directory and possibly a device.map file that tells it the disk it is installing on is going to be disk0 when used it is fine. For example: echo "Installing grub to sda1.." chroot /mnt bash -c "echo '/dev/sda1 / ext3 rw 0 0' >> /etc/mtab" chroot /mnt bash -c "echo '(hd0) /dev/sda' > /boot/grub/device.map" chroot /mnt bash -c "grub-install /dev/sda" chroot /mnt bash -c "echo '(hd0) /dev/hda' > /boot/grub/device.map" This assumes the new drive is mounted as /mnt and is partition 1. It works by faking the mount so inside chroot grub things /dev/sda1 is mounted as / It thinks sda is hd0 It installs to the MBR of sda It is then updated to know hda is hd0 (as it will be on the system if it is booted as an ide disk). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:18:55 2005 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:18:55 -0400 Subject: Anyone in for a new business? In-Reply-To: <426AC661.6020109-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20050423210518.29787.qmail@web60111.mail.yahoo.com> <426AC661.6020109@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050425161855.GD28751@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Apr 23, 2005 at 06:04:17PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > There is no such thing as spam protection. But if no one protects the spam, then how will it ever survive and prosper? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:29:48 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:29:48 -0400 Subject: Unicode-capable, sans-serif terminal fonts? In-Reply-To: References: <20050425130905.GA11070@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <426D1AFC.1070200@md5.ca> > > To the best of my knowledge, rxvt is not capable of rendering > anti-aliased fonts. > > My 2 cents. > JV > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Hi, Antialiased fonts btw are wrong. Read: http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$190 So far I do agree with that document. pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:12:45 2005 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:12:45 -0400 Subject: the web as a database In-Reply-To: <4266B250.5070005-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1114015001.4446.20.camel@armitage.pegasoft.ca> <4266B250.5070005@istop.com> Message-ID: <20050425121245.4879d1fa.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 20 Apr 2005 15:49:36 -0400 Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Just an idea. May be someone will want to comment? > > ... > > Some may suggest the use of XML. Probably a good idea. I do not have > however a general understanding of what is behind XML. In principle, I > imagine, web sites could have a special file hosted on their server that > would contain a detailed information about the content of these web > sites, or at least about the company. Like in the example above. A sort > of like now /robots.txt is used, or newsfeed.xml . > > Is there no other way? Zbigniew, A couple of years ago, I wrote a Perl program for managing a hiking club schedule. I generated the schedule as a set of SGML files. Based on the date, and what the user requested, the Perl program either displaying the schedule, or the current hike. I thought I was pretty clever. XML was developed from SGML, and my process was probably closer to XML in that my tags are case sensitive. The thing never went into production. Someday, when I have to pass the hiking club web page on to a new user, I will have to teach them HTML. HTML is a simple enough language that the web page can be maintained by a hiker. Hiking club no hiking club, HTML is a useful thing to know. Learning it is not a waste of time. My SGML DTD is useful for maintaining hiking club schedule websites. It will work for other schedules as long as they like the way I formatted the HTML. Only I know the DTD. There are no books on it, particularly not the kind for dummies. There is no software for displaying it other than my Perl program. The only authoring software is a text editor. At least (x)emacs can read my DTD, and tell you what the next legal tag is. The main outcome of my project is that I learned some Perl. How about a methodically structured HTML file? For my purposes, an HTML file would contain a table with a specific number of columns, with the first one being the date, and second one being the destination, etc. A program reads through the HTML file searching for the first table, and then the first tag. The contents becomes the first date. This HTML file can be prepared using vi. It can be prepared using any HTML editor. It can be prepared using Microsoft Word! The HTML file is functional on its own, without my program. In your case, you need to arbitrarily define a tag, which tells a searchbot that is is the web page of a physics lab. You can supply a couple of keywords in another tag. You can create a summary paragraph, flagged by a CSS class. Again, all of this can be maintained using existing software. The tags and CSS classes are all supported by HTML authoring tools. The physics labs that already have web pages can do a minor edit on them, and they work with your tool. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:54:01 2005 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:54:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Unicode-capable, sans-serif terminal fonts? In-Reply-To: <426D1AFC.1070200-XHBUQMKE58M@public.gmane.org> References: <20050425130905.GA11070@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <426D1AFC.1070200@md5.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 25 Apr 2005, Pavel Zaitsev wrote: > Antialiased fonts btw are wrong. Read: > http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$190 > So far I do agree with that document. He has a point. The font I use with xterm and rxvt renders characters only 6 pixels wide. (I chose this so I could fit two 80-column xterms side-by-side on my 1024x768 screen.) If you try to anti-alias text that small characters like 'W' end up as blobs on non-uniform gray instead of legible text. But I do like aa fonts for large text (say, when I'm web browsing). Up to 3 cents now. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 16:56:12 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 12:56:12 -0400 Subject: DHCP No free leases In-Reply-To: <8eb589e05042311222cf68545-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8eb589e05042311222cf68545@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <426D212C.3040407@md5.ca> jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi, I am trying to set up LTSP and boot one of my computers as a thin > client, however after setting up dhcpd.conf and booting the thin > client (using PXE), I get the error in the logs filess > > DHCPDISCOVER from 00:07:e9:d2:6b:3a via eth0: network WORKSTATIONS: no > free leases > > This is my currrent conf file > > # Sample configuration file for ISCD dhcpd > # > # Make changes to this file and copy it to /etc/dhcpd.conf > # > ddns-update-style none; > default-lease-time 21000; > max-lease-time 21000; > > option subnet-mask 1.1.1.1 ; > option broadcast-address 192.168.0.255 ; > option routers 192.168.0.100 ; > option domain-name-servers 192.168.0.100 ; > option domain-name "mydomain.com "; > option root-path "192.168.0.100:/opt/ltsp/i386"; > > option option-128 code 128 = string; > option option-129 code 129 = text; > > shared-network WORKSTATIONS { > subnet 1.1.1.1 netmask 1.1.1.1 { > > } > } > > group{ > use-host-decl-names on; > option log-servers 192.168.0.100 ; > > host ws001 { > hardware ethernet 00:07:e9:d2:6b:3a; > fixed-address 192.168.0.1 ; > filename "/lts/vmlinuz-2.4.22-ltsp-1"; > } > > > } > > Thanks, > > Jon Hi, In addition, you probably want to start dhcpd like: dhcpd eth1 or whichever adapter that is exposed to your local lan. And update your init scripts/config to use this parameter. at this point you have to just fiddle, load sample configurations from google searches see what people have done with their dhcpd setups. good luck, pavel -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org Mon Apr 25 17:08:41 2005 From: pavel-XHBUQMKE58M at public.gmane.org (Pavel Zaitsev) Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2005 13:08:41 -0400 Subject: Unicode-aware text editor; suggestions? In-Reply-To: <42687020.6010303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <42687020.6010303@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <426D2419.6090504@md5.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I really, really hope this doesn't become an emacs vs. vi thread... > I don't want to use something that takes a religious convertion and > weeks or study to use. :p Hi, I would think editor is a very personal tool, so choosing one can be demanding choice. For me being thrifty with my time and reluctance to learn new but same things (new editors on other platforms) I have chosen vi, and vim now. Emacs is almost as good of the choice but it is not as readily available everywhere and configuration vary wildly. But you still can install emacs on quite a number of platforms. If you are a perl/shell coder you will come to appreciate capacity of vim to mix and match commands to increase your productivity. I use regular expressions on making html tables and files all the time. Say you got some fields in a table , you paste in the list strip anything funny with s/ *// and s/\(\w*\) *.*/\1/g or some such thing and then decorate stripped fields with s/\(\w*\)/