From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 01:17:33 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:17:33 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <200408312117.33412.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Tuesday 31 August 2004 08:14 am, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > I have about 650 jpeg's (approx. 1.5 MB each) from a recent family reunion. > I need to shrink them down and start e-mailing them and/or posting them on > my site. Here is a short bash script that you can use. give it a name ,something like 'reduce' #! /bin/bash for file in *.jpg do convert $file -resize $1x$1 $file done xxxxxxxxxx Have the script in the directory where you have a *copy* of all your 650 files. Usage: reduce NNN NNN is the desired pixel size e.g 1200 All your 650 pictures will be converted to this new size, regardless of the original size. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 01:32:07 2004 From: hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Hoshil N. Desai) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:32:07 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <4134988E.5080509-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4134988E.5080509@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20040901013209.079F87898@lethe.ss.org> mogrify -size 800x600 *.jpg -resize 800x600 +profile "*" Worked like a charm, in about 20 minutes it shrunk a 1.3GB folder into a 80MB folder and the picture quality is really good. Thank you all for your suggestions and help. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Anton Markov Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 11:26 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Shrinking Images -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fraser Campbell wrote: | There's lots of software for creating image galleries. I think it's highly | preferable to use a website rather than email, some people still have dialup. Yes, and many people still use Hotmail or something else with a size limit. | | I use igal, it's a simple command line program (as simple as "igal ." if you | like). Software's at http://www.stanford.edu/~epop/igal (if you use Debian | then just apt-get install it). Or take a look at IDS. It's a perl/ImageMagick (PerlMagick) based image gallery app. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBNJiNRreNkzrRRLQRAk9eAJ91GvAh0ij/91KVJXoSdbF2VYo9KgCfelM3 yB+ykvqUp5GkT4nGc/9k3Aw= =rBBt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 02:35:24 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:35:24 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <413398E3.4040106@alteeve.com> <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040831223524.6ba7943d.hgibson@eol.ca> On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:14:48 -0400 "Hoshil N. Desai" wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I know this topic was discussed not long ago, but I didn't pay much > attention to it at that time and I am now paying the price. > > I have about 650 jpeg's (approx. 1.5 MB each) from a recent family reunion. > I need to shrink them down and start e-mailing them and/or posting them on > my site. > > I would prefer a command line interface. I don't have a monitor connected > to my Linux machine. I normally ssh into Linux from a windows machine. > > If someone could point me to the archive or even better if someone has > already done this could pass some first hand knowledge, I would appreciate > it. And not to waste anyone else's time with a repetitive question, you > could contact me off the list. > > Thank you, > Hoshil Hoshil, My problem is quickly posting large numbers of JPEGs to a website. I am very lazy. Take a look at my BASH script at http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/mkJPEGdir. Type in the command by itself and it explains its syntax. Being a BASH script, you can just study the damn thing. The web page title must be enclosed in quotes. Any directories with spaces in them must be enclosed in quotes. You must have ImageMagick installed. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 02:58:20 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 22:58:20 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <200408311330.57190.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4133ADFC.5020603@sympatico.ca> <200408311330.57190.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <41353ACC.6010707@sympatico.ca> Fred Nastos wrote: > > A question, just so I can be certain (I know little about networking): If I > get one of these, can I easily hook it up to my router, and from the office > send files home to the usb drive connected to the fileserver? Maybe -- I don't know. You'd probably have to know your home IP address, punch some ports open in your router, and enable uPnP on the NSLU2. It's supposed to be net accessible, but I specifically don't want that. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 03:06:14 2004 From: hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Hoshil N. Desai) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 23:06:14 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <20040831223524.6ba7943d.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040831223524.6ba7943d.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20040901030617.039D06D9AA@lethe.ss.org> Thanks Howard, I will give that script a try -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Howard Gibson Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 10:35 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Shrinking Images On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:14:48 -0400 "Hoshil N. Desai" wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I know this topic was discussed not long ago, but I didn't pay much > attention to it at that time and I am now paying the price. > > I have about 650 jpeg's (approx. 1.5 MB each) from a recent family reunion. > I need to shrink them down and start e-mailing them and/or posting them on > my site. > > I would prefer a command line interface. I don't have a monitor connected > to my Linux machine. I normally ssh into Linux from a windows machine. > > If someone could point me to the archive or even better if someone has > already done this could pass some first hand knowledge, I would appreciate > it. And not to waste anyone else's time with a repetitive question, you > could contact me off the list. > > Thank you, > Hoshil Hoshil, My problem is quickly posting large numbers of JPEGs to a website. I am very lazy. Take a look at my BASH script at http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/mkJPEGdir. Type in the command by itself and it explains its syntax. Being a BASH script, you can just study the damn thing. The web page title must be enclosed in quotes. Any directories with spaces in them must be enclosed in quotes. You must have ImageMagick installed. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 13:23:19 2004 From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 06:23:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Mars-nwe - reliability? Message-ID: <20040901132319.83268.qmail@web14525.mail.yahoo.com> Hi. I've been trying to use samba for a file server, tu run a DOS program. In the clients, I tried m$'s TCP/IP client, but my program opens more than 64 files, and I think the client don't support that... Now I'm trying mars-nwe, it is a free novell server. The clients runs DOS as the novell netware clients. My program runs OK. I will have 4 clients running the program. Do you have tested mars-nwe? Is it reliable? thank you in advance. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win 1 of 4,000 free domain names from Yahoo! Enter now. http://promotions.yahoo.com/goldrush -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 13:38:52 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (Bob Findlay) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 09:38:52 -0400 Subject: selfhosted(live)CD question Message-ID: <20040901134828.249295751F@outbox.allstream.net> With generous assistance from Steve Meyer (recent TLUG speaker) I have managed to create a selfhosted(live)CD for the SIMPL open source project which I facilitate (https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl). At this stage this CD is intended as a learning aid for the SIMPL toolset. In an ideal world the user would pop the CD into the drive and boot off it. They would then insert their work floppy (or key) and have it mount to the filesystem transparently. Does anyone know a way to autodetect and mount a floppy upon insertion? bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 15:19:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:19:39 -0400 Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard In-Reply-To: <7aa37fa804082722401f6df3b0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <20040828043445.GK19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7aa37fa804082722401f6df3b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040901151939.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 11:40:02PM -0600, Adil Kodian wrote: > make sure you buy a SATA controller that is supported by your version > of linux. I have a tyan thunder k8w with a sil3114 card, and ive > never gotten the hardware RAID to work properly in a manner that both > windows and linux can use any partition on the RAID'ed hard drives > (Raid0) > > but working with my desktop (2x248 opteron, 1Gig RAM, 120Gx3 SATA hdd) > with windows2k (32bit) ive found it to be blazingly fast - P4s and > Xeons dont even come close! I can run a heavy simulation ad 70%cpu), > and continuously keep playing my games without a skip or freeze ! > (NVidia GeForce FX 128Mb agp card) > > With linux in the native 64 bit mode it runs unbelievably fast - yep i > also experienced the kernel compiling like magic. Mandrake, SuSE, FC2 > all have AMD64 versions, although FC2 comes with support for almost > every new device - and so may be important to some. Well my wife got a laptop yesterday (she wanted a laptop, and it was $400 off, so seemed like a good idea), which I think she will probably install Linux on this weekend (after reinstalling Windows in a more clean state than it comes, and with more than one partition). It will be interesting to see how Linux runs in 64bit mode on it. I am sure the wireless network will be a pain, but the rest seems supported. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 15:26:33 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:26:33 -0400 Subject: Understanding LA files In-Reply-To: <4134B18D.9070203-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <41349176.6030504@digitalfairway.com> <4134B18D.9070203@digitalfairway.com> Message-ID: <20040901152633.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 01:12:45PM -0400, Chris Gow wrote: > I attempted to check the Makefile but A) My make knowledge is pretty > limited B) It is a Makefile generated by the configure script. > > I did a env | grep '/opt/gnome/lib' and the only entry I got back was > PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/gnome/lib. Which I unset and then re-ran configure. > I wound up getting the same error. Did you wipe out config.cache to make sure it rechecked everything rather than relying what it discovered last time? gnome stuff should ususually find it's settings by calling gnome-config --cflags or --libs or --prefix. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 15:28:32 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:28:32 -0400 Subject: selfhosted(live)CD question In-Reply-To: <20040901134828.249295751F-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040901134828.249295751F@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20040901152832.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 09:38:52AM -0400, Bob Findlay wrote: > With generous assistance from Steve Meyer (recent TLUG speaker) I have > managed to create a selfhosted(live)CD for the SIMPL open source project > which I facilitate (https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl). > > At this stage this CD is intended as a learning aid for the SIMPL toolset. > > In an ideal world the user would pop the CD into the drive and boot off it. > They would then insert their work floppy (or key) and have it mount to the > filesystem transparently. > > Does anyone know a way to autodetect and mount a floppy upon insertion? Get a mac or an amiga? Not sure if PC drives actually do that or not. They have a disk detection signal, but have often ignored it. Maybe supermount has some way to do it, although I have never used it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 15:33:06 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:33:06 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040901153306.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 07:56:14PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Really ? That's interesting. I see 100k real speed on a terayon cable > modem (128 k connection). How much faster can one go ? Considering all the > dumb arp traffic on the cable, I'd say you can't go faster. Of course I > don't know about Rogers. Maybe they have more switches. It would be > interesting to know how much speed one can gain by switching modems ? I managed to transmit at I think 130KB/s on a terayon in Waterloo back in 1999, on a brand new segment with 3 or 4 users on the entire segment. Downloads often hit 300 to 340KB/s. Not sure what docsis actually allows for up and downstream rates. Needless to say I have never seen anything like those speeds on rogers in Toronto. Shaw in Bolton was close, but when rogers took over the speed just dropped (along with reliability). I haven't used rogers for about 4 or 5 months now so i have no idea what may have changed since. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 15:51:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:51:36 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040828045729.11810.qmail-YtQy2KcNWN2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040827205339.GI19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040828045729.11810.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040901155136.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 09:57:29PM -0700, Mel Seder wrote: > I'm using mail.yahoo.com as my mail program. I looked everywhere that seemed > logical in mail options and couldn't find a way to send non HTML mail. If > anyone can tell me how to NOT send HTML mail in mail.yahoo.com I'd be more than > happy to send pure text only messages. Well if yahoo.com can't do plain text messages, go use gmail. It only does plain text messages. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 15:46:20 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:46:20 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <20040901153306.GD8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> <20040901153306.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:33:06 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I managed to transmit at I think 130KB/s on a terayon in Waterloo back > in 1999, on a brand new segment with 3 or 4 users on the entire segment. > Downloads often hit 300 to 340KB/s. Not sure what docsis actually > allows for up and downstream rates. > > Needless to say I have never seen anything like those speeds on rogers > in Toronto. Shaw in Bolton was close, but when rogers took over the > speed just dropped (along with reliability). I haven't used rogers for > about 4 or 5 months now so i have no idea what may have changed since. A year ago my Rogers service was rated at 1.5Mbps, and I got about half of that. Then last year they went and bumped a bunch of us up to 3Mbps, and now I get half of that (i.e. what I was originally supposed to get). Maybe it's my Terayon... Back in Edmonton, our Videon (formerly Videotron) cablemodems weren't capped at anything. One morning around 3am I managed to suck 800kBps from sunsite.ualberta.ca (back before they put in a 4kBps-per-outside-connection throttle). THAT was speed. (IIRC, ADSL tops out at 8Mbps, given perfect wires, but newer DSL variants may go faster) AFAIK it's technically possible for cablemodems in general to go faster, since I'm remembering something about the coax pipe running at 30Mbps; I've never had solid proof that any modems have been made with more than a 10bT ethernet MAC on them, though, meaning that you really do need at least 4 or so people on a segment to even think about saturating it. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 15:54:45 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:54:45 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: References: <20040828045729.11810.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> <4130F627.306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040901155445.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 29, 2004 at 01:14:28AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > How do you know ? You read it in Mozilla apparently. Web mail clients > usually send it as multipart with plain text in the body + html attached > afaik. The better ones do. Some don't. thunderbird has an option to send multipart (which is a good compromise). outlook appers to be either bot not multipart. I have only really used gmail for webmail and it does plain text only for now, and I think when I have used squirelmail and imp and twig, they have been plain text too. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 17:35:52 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 10:35:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040901155136.GE8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040901155136.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040901173552.99444.qmail@web40714.mail.yahoo.com> I guess my problem is that I want to go to mail.yahoo.com and have access to all my outgoing and incoming mail there without having to fire up gmail to see what mail I have sent. Any suggestions or ideas? --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 09:57:29PM -0700, Mel Seder wrote: > > I'm using mail.yahoo.com as my mail program. I looked everywhere that > seemed > > logical in mail options and couldn't find a way to send non HTML mail. If > > anyone can tell me how to NOT send HTML mail in mail.yahoo.com I'd be more > than > > happy to send pure text only messages. > > Well if yahoo.com can't do plain text messages, go use gmail. It only > does plain text messages. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ===== If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? by: Hillel 100 BCE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 01:06:37 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 21:06:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: selfhosted(live)CD question In-Reply-To: <20040901134828.249295751F-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040901134828.249295751F@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Sep 2004, Bob Findlay wrote: > With generous assistance from Steve Meyer (recent TLUG speaker) I have > managed to create a selfhosted(live)CD for the SIMPL open source project > which I facilitate (https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl). > > At this stage this CD is intended as a learning aid for the SIMPL toolset. > > In an ideal world the user would pop the CD into the drive and boot off it. > They would then insert their work floppy (or key) and have it mount to the > filesystem transparently. > > Does anyone know a way to autodetect and mount a floppy upon insertion? Man hotpplug. Normally hotplug loads a driver. Under kde it also makes an icon. Since it's a script, you can change it to also mount the media, check for a magic piece of data that confirms that it's the right kind of media contents and then execute a certain script or program on it. Obviously this is a security problem once you publish it. hope this helps, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 18:55:51 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:55:51 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040901173552.99444.qmail-fqrPblOl7K6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040901155136.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040901173552.99444.qmail@web40714.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040901185551.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 10:35:52AM -0700, Mel Seder wrote: > I guess my problem is that I want to go to mail.yahoo.com and have access to > all my outgoing and incoming mail there without having to fire up gmail to see > what mail I have sent. Any suggestions or ideas? gmail = google mail = a web mail system that doesn't suck. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 1 19:39:18 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Wed, 1 Sep 2004 15:39:18 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040901185551.GG8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040901155136.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040901173552.99444.qmail@web40714.mail.yahoo.com> <20040901185551.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:55:51 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 01, 2004 at 10:35:52AM -0700, Mel Seder wrote: > > I guess my problem is that I want to go to mail.yahoo.com and have access to > > all my outgoing and incoming mail there without having to fire up gmail to see > > what mail I have sent. Any suggestions or ideas? > > gmail = google mail = a web mail system that doesn't suck. http://gmail.google.com FYI, those of us with gmail addresses tend to have invites lying around. But if you weren't looking for Yet Another Webmail address, it's probably not for you. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 04:08:11 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 00:08:11 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <015101c49053$d748bc10$7700000a@guru> References: <413398E3.4040106@alteeve.com> <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> <20040831223524.6ba7943d.hgibson@eol.ca> <015101c49053$d748bc10$7700000a@guru> Message-ID: <20040902000811.7fcf48fa.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:45:23 -0400 "Hoshil Desai" wrote: > Hi Howard, > > This is probably a very stupid question (that's why I am asking it off the > list) but I could not get that script to work. > > I tried sh mkJPEGdir - It didn't work > > I tried chmod a+x mkJPEGdir followed by a ./mkJPEGdir and it didn't work. > > In both the cases I got some token not found error. > > Maybe I am doing something really wrong. I have other bash scripts which > work without a hitch. If you could direct me in the right direction, I > would appreciate it. Hoshil, I cc'ed the list on this because someone else may recognize it. I am unable to reproduce your token not found error. I assume you have ImageMagick installed because renaming the convert command causes a command not found error. Retyping variables incorrectly causes them to contain no data. There is no explicit error message, although the output is messed up. Changing the command shell from sh to all sorts of other stuff often messed up, but not with the token not found error. What happened when you typed ./mkJPEGdir on its own? If you give it anything other than three operators, you should get a usage message. It is always possible that some kind of error crept in on your download. Try saving the file again. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 08:16:10 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 04:16:10 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer Message-ID: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi I'm trying to install the latest nvidia driver and can't seem to get it to work. Below I've posted the results of the XF86config log as well as XF86Config itself. Can anyone give me any suggestions as to what is wrong. I'm using Fedora 1 and a low latency kernel from Planet CCRMA. Thanks Jim XFree86 Version 4.3.0 (Fedora Core 1: 4.3.0-55) Release Date: 15 August 2003 X Protocol Version 11, Revision 0, Release 6.6 Build Operating System: Linux 2.4.21-9.ELsmp i686 [ELF] Build Date: 12 February 2004 Build Host: bugs.devel.redhat.com Before reporting any problems, please make sure you are using the most recent XFree86 packages available from Red Hat by checking for updates at http://rhn.redhat.com/errata or by using the Red Hat Network up2date tool. If you still encounter problems, please file bug reports in the XFree86.org bugzilla at http://bugs.xfree86.org and/or Red Hat bugzilla at http://bugzilla.redhat.com Module Loader present OS Kernel: Linux version 2.4.26-1.ll.rhfc1.ccrma (root-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob at public.gmane.org) (gcc version 3.2.3 20030422 (Red Hat Linux 3.2.3-6)) #1 Sat Apr 17 19:59:18 PDT 2004 Markers: (--) probed, (**) from config file, (==) default setting, (++) from command line, (!!) notice, (II) informational, (WW) warning, (EE) error, (NI) not implemented, (??) unknown. (==) Log file: "/var/log/XFree86.0.log", Time: Thu Sep 2 01:14:00 2004 (==) Using config file: "/etc/X11/XF86Config" (==) ServerLayout "Multihead layout" (**) |-->Screen "Screen0" (0) (**) | |-->Monitor "Monitor0" (**) | |-->Device "Videocard0" (**) |-->Screen "Screen1" (1) (**) | |-->Monitor "Monitor1" (**) | |-->Device "Videocard1" (**) |-->Input Device "Mouse0" (**) |-->Input Device "Keyboard0" (**) Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" (**) XKB: rules: "xfree86" (**) Option "XkbModel" "pc105" (**) XKB: model: "pc105" (**) Option "XkbLayout" "us" (**) XKB: layout: "us" (==) Keyboard: CustomKeycode disabled (**) |-->Input Device "DevInputMice" (**) FontPath set to "unix/:7100" (**) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" (==) ModulePath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/modules" (**) Option "Xinerama" "off" (--) using VT number 7 (WW) Open APM failed (/dev/apm_bios) (No such device) (II) Module ABI versions: XFree86 ANSI C Emulation: 0.2 XFree86 Video Driver: 0.6 XFree86 XInput driver : 0.4 XFree86 Server Extension : 0.2 XFree86 Font Renderer : 0.4 (II) Loader running on linux (II) LoadModule: "bitmap" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libbitmap.a (II) Module bitmap: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.4 (II) Loading font Bitmap (II) LoadModule: "pcidata" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libpcidata.a (II) Module pcidata: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 1.0.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.6 (II) PCI: Probing config type using method 1 (II) PCI: Config type is 1 (II) PCI: stages = 0x03, oldVal1 = 0x00000000, mode1Res1 = 0x80000000 (II) PCI: PCI scan (all values are in hex) (II) PCI: 00:00:0: chip 8086,3575 card 1179,ff00 rev 02 class 06,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:01:0: chip 8086,3576 card 0000,0000 rev 02 class 06,04,00 hdr 01 (II) PCI: 00:1d:0: chip 8086,2482 card 1179,ff00 rev 01 class 0c,03,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1d:1: chip 8086,2484 card 1179,ff00 rev 01 class 0c,03,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:1d:2: chip 8086,2487 card 1179,ff00 rev 01 class 0c,03,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:1e:0: chip 8086,2448 card 0000,0000 rev 41 class 06,04,00 hdr 01 (II) PCI: 00:1f:0: chip 8086,248c card 0000,0000 rev 01 class 06,01,00 hdr 80 (II) PCI: 00:1f:1: chip 8086,248a card 1179,ff00 rev 01 class 01,01,8a hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:1f:3: chip 8086,2483 card 1179,ff00 rev 01 class 0c,05,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:1f:5: chip 8086,2485 card 1179,ff00 rev 01 class 04,01,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 00:1f:6: chip 8086,2486 card 1179,0001 rev 01 class 07,03,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 01:00:0: chip 10de,0112 card 1179,ff00 rev b2 class 03,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 02:00:0: chip 104c,8023 card 1179,ff00 rev 00 class 0c,00,10 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 02:01:0: chip 10ec,8139 card 1179,ff00 rev 10 class 02,00,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: 02:04:0: chip 104c,ac51 card 4000,0000 rev 00 class 06,07,00 hdr 82 (II) PCI: 02:04:1: chip 104c,ac51 card 4800,0000 rev 00 class 06,07,00 hdr 82 (II) PCI: 02:06:0: chip 1179,0804 card 1179,ff00 rev 02 class 08,80,00 hdr 00 (II) PCI: End of PCI scan (II) Host-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 0: bridge is at (0:0:0), (0,0,7), BCTRL: 0x0008 (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 0 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) Bus 0 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) Bus 0 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 1: bridge is at (0:1:0), (0,1,1), BCTRL: 0x000c (VGA_EN is set) (II) Bus 1 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xd1000000 - 0xd1ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B] (II) Bus 1 prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xf0000000 - 0xf7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-PCI bridge: (II) Bus 2: bridge is at (0:30:0), (0,2,2), BCTRL: 0x0004 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) Bus 2 I/O range: [0] -1 0 0x00003000 - 0x000030ff (0x100) IX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00003400 - 0x000034ff (0x100) IX[B] [2] -1 0 0x00003800 - 0x000038ff (0x100) IX[B] [3] -1 0 0x00003c00 - 0x00003cff (0x100) IX[B] (II) Bus 2 non-prefetchable memory range: [0] -1 0 0xd2000000 - 0xd20fffff (0x100000) MX[B] (II) PCI-to-ISA bridge: (II) Bus -1: bridge is at (0:31:0), (0,-1,-1), BCTRL: 0x0008 (VGA_EN is set) (II) PCI-to-CardBus bridge: (II) Bus 3: bridge is at (2:4:0), (2,3,6), BCTRL: 0x05c0 (VGA_EN is cleared) (II) PCI-to-CardBus bridge: (II) Bus 7: bridge is at (2:4:1), (2,7,10), BCTRL: 0x05c0 (VGA_EN is cleared) (--) PCI:*(1:0:0) nVidia Corporation NV11 [GeForce2 Go] rev 178, Mem @ 0xd1000000/24, 0xf0000000/27 (II) Addressable bus resource ranges are [0] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0xffffffff (0x0) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0000ffff (0x10000) IX[B] (II) OS-reported resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [6] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] (II) PCI Memory resource overlap reduced 0xe0000000 from 0xefffffff to 0xdfffffff (II) Active PCI resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xd2004c00 - 0xd2004c1f (0x20) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0xd2004800 - 0xd20048ff (0x100) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0xd2000000 - 0xd2003fff (0x4000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xd2004000 - 0xd20047ff (0x800) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0xd0000000 - 0xd00003ff (0x400) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xe0000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x0) MX[B]O [6] -1 0 0xf0000000 - 0xf7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B) [7] -1 0 0xd1000000 - 0xd1ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B) [8] -1 0 0x00003000 - 0x000030ff (0x100) IX[B] [9] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x0000207f (0x80) IX[B] [10] -1 0 0x00002400 - 0x000024ff (0x100) IX[B] [11] -1 0 0x000018c0 - 0x000018ff (0x40) IX[B] [12] -1 0 0x00001c00 - 0x00001cff (0x100) IX[B] [13] -1 0 0x00001880 - 0x0000189f (0x20) IX[B] [14] -1 0 0x00001860 - 0x0000186f (0x10) IX[B] [15] -1 0 0x00000374 - 0x00000374 (0x1) IX[B] [16] -1 0 0x00000170 - 0x00000170 (0x1) IX[B] [17] -1 0 0x000003f4 - 0x000003f4 (0x1) IX[B] [18] -1 0 0x000001f0 - 0x000001f0 (0x1) IX[B] [19] -1 0 0x00001840 - 0x0000185f (0x20) IX[B] [20] -1 0 0x00001820 - 0x0000183f (0x20) IX[B] [21] -1 0 0x00001800 - 0x0000181f (0x20) IX[B] (II) Active PCI resource ranges after removing overlaps: [0] -1 0 0xd2004c00 - 0xd2004c1f (0x20) MX[B] [1] -1 0 0xd2004800 - 0xd20048ff (0x100) MX[B] [2] -1 0 0xd2000000 - 0xd2003fff (0x4000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0xd2004000 - 0xd20047ff (0x800) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0xd0000000 - 0xd00003ff (0x400) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xe0000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x0) MX[B]O [6] -1 0 0xf0000000 - 0xf7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B) [7] -1 0 0xd1000000 - 0xd1ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B) [8] -1 0 0x00003000 - 0x000030ff (0x100) IX[B] [9] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x0000207f (0x80) IX[B] [10] -1 0 0x00002400 - 0x000024ff (0x100) IX[B] [11] -1 0 0x000018c0 - 0x000018ff (0x40) IX[B] [12] -1 0 0x00001c00 - 0x00001cff (0x100) IX[B] [13] -1 0 0x00001880 - 0x0000189f (0x20) IX[B] [14] -1 0 0x00001860 - 0x0000186f (0x10) IX[B] [15] -1 0 0x00000374 - 0x00000374 (0x1) IX[B] [16] -1 0 0x00000170 - 0x00000170 (0x1) IX[B] [17] -1 0 0x000003f4 - 0x000003f4 (0x1) IX[B] [18] -1 0 0x000001f0 - 0x000001f0 (0x1) IX[B] [19] -1 0 0x00001840 - 0x0000185f (0x20) IX[B] [20] -1 0 0x00001820 - 0x0000183f (0x20) IX[B] [21] -1 0 0x00001800 - 0x0000181f (0x20) IX[B] (II) OS-reported resource ranges after removing overlaps with PCI: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [6] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] (II) All system resource ranges: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xd2004c00 - 0xd2004c1f (0x20) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xd2004800 - 0xd20048ff (0x100) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xd2000000 - 0xd2003fff (0x4000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xd2004000 - 0xd20047ff (0x800) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xd0000000 - 0xd00003ff (0x400) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe0000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x0) MX[B]O [11] -1 0 0xf0000000 - 0xf7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B) [12] -1 0 0xd1000000 - 0xd1ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B) [13] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [14] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] [15] -1 0 0x00003000 - 0x000030ff (0x100) IX[B] [16] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x0000207f (0x80) IX[B] [17] -1 0 0x00002400 - 0x000024ff (0x100) IX[B] [18] -1 0 0x000018c0 - 0x000018ff (0x40) IX[B] [19] -1 0 0x00001c00 - 0x00001cff (0x100) IX[B] [20] -1 0 0x00001880 - 0x0000189f (0x20) IX[B] [21] -1 0 0x00001860 - 0x0000186f (0x10) IX[B] [22] -1 0 0x00000374 - 0x00000374 (0x1) IX[B] [23] -1 0 0x00000170 - 0x00000170 (0x1) IX[B] [24] -1 0 0x000003f4 - 0x000003f4 (0x1) IX[B] [25] -1 0 0x000001f0 - 0x000001f0 (0x1) IX[B] [26] -1 0 0x00001840 - 0x0000185f (0x20) IX[B] [27] -1 0 0x00001820 - 0x0000183f (0x20) IX[B] [28] -1 0 0x00001800 - 0x0000181f (0x20) IX[B] (II) LoadModule: "dbe" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libdbe.a (II) Module dbe: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.2 (II) Loading extension DOUBLE-BUFFER (II) LoadModule: "extmod" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libextmod.a (II) Module extmod: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.2 (II) Loading extension SHAPE (II) Loading extension MIT-SUNDRY-NONSTANDARD (II) Loading extension BIG-REQUESTS (II) Loading extension SYNC (II) Loading extension MIT-SCREEN-SAVER (II) Loading extension XC-MISC (II) Loading extension XFree86-VidModeExtension (II) Loading extension XFree86-Misc (II) Loading extension XFree86-DGA (II) Loading extension DPMS (II) Loading extension FontCache (II) Loading extension TOG-CUP (II) Loading extension Extended-Visual-Information (II) Loading extension XVideo (II) Loading extension XVideo-MotionCompensation (II) Loading extension X-Resource (II) LoadModule: "fbdevhw" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/linux/libfbdevhw.a (II) Module fbdevhw: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 0.0.2 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.6 (II) LoadModule: "glx" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/libglx.so (II) Module glx: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation" compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.6111 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.1 (II) Loading extension GLX (II) LoadModule: "record" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/extensions/librecord.a (II) Module record: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 1.13.0 Module class: XFree86 Server Extension ABI class: XFree86 Server Extension, version 0.2 (II) Loading extension RECORD (II) LoadModule: "freetype" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libfreetype.a (II) Module freetype: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 2.0.2 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.4 (II) Loading font FreeType (II) LoadModule: "type1" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/fonts/libtype1.a (II) Module type1: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 1.0.2 Module class: XFree86 Font Renderer ABI class: XFree86 Font Renderer, version 0.4 (II) Loading font Type1 (II) Loading font CID (II) LoadModule: "v4l" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/linux/v4l_drv.o (II) Module v4l: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 0.0.1 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.6 (II) LoadModule: "nvidia" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o (II) Module nvidia: vendor="NVIDIA Corporation" compiled for 4.0.2, module version = 1.0.6111 Module class: XFree86 Video Driver (II) LoadModule: "mouse" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/input/mouse_drv.o (II) Module mouse: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 1.0.0 Module class: XFree86 XInput Driver ABI class: XFree86 XInput driver, version 0.4 (II) v4l driver for Video4Linux (II) NVIDIA X Driver 1.0-6111 Tue Jul 27 07:56:22 PDT 2004 (II) NVIDIA Unified Driver for all NVIDIA GPUs (II) Primary Device is: PCI 01:00:0 (--) Assigning device section with no busID to primary device (--) Chipset NVIDIA GPU found (II) resource ranges after xf86ClaimFixedResources() call: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xd2004c00 - 0xd2004c1f (0x20) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xd2004800 - 0xd20048ff (0x100) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xd2000000 - 0xd2003fff (0x4000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xd2004000 - 0xd20047ff (0x800) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xd0000000 - 0xd00003ff (0x400) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe0000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x0) MX[B]O [11] -1 0 0xf0000000 - 0xf7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B) [12] -1 0 0xd1000000 - 0xd1ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B) [13] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [14] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] [15] -1 0 0x00003000 - 0x000030ff (0x100) IX[B] [16] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x0000207f (0x80) IX[B] [17] -1 0 0x00002400 - 0x000024ff (0x100) IX[B] [18] -1 0 0x000018c0 - 0x000018ff (0x40) IX[B] [19] -1 0 0x00001c00 - 0x00001cff (0x100) IX[B] [20] -1 0 0x00001880 - 0x0000189f (0x20) IX[B] [21] -1 0 0x00001860 - 0x0000186f (0x10) IX[B] [22] -1 0 0x00000374 - 0x00000374 (0x1) IX[B] [23] -1 0 0x00000170 - 0x00000170 (0x1) IX[B] [24] -1 0 0x000003f4 - 0x000003f4 (0x1) IX[B] [25] -1 0 0x000001f0 - 0x000001f0 (0x1) IX[B] [26] -1 0 0x00001840 - 0x0000185f (0x20) IX[B] [27] -1 0 0x00001820 - 0x0000183f (0x20) IX[B] [28] -1 0 0x00001800 - 0x0000181f (0x20) IX[B] (II) resource ranges after probing: [0] -1 0 0xffe00000 - 0xffffffff (0x200000) MX[B](B) [1] -1 0 0x00100000 - 0x3fffffff (0x3ff00000) MX[B]E(B) [2] -1 0 0x000f0000 - 0x000fffff (0x10000) MX[B] [3] -1 0 0x000c0000 - 0x000effff (0x30000) MX[B] [4] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x0009ffff (0xa0000) MX[B] [5] -1 0 0xd2004c00 - 0xd2004c1f (0x20) MX[B] [6] -1 0 0xd2004800 - 0xd20048ff (0x100) MX[B] [7] -1 0 0xd2000000 - 0xd2003fff (0x4000) MX[B] [8] -1 0 0xd2004000 - 0xd20047ff (0x800) MX[B] [9] -1 0 0xd0000000 - 0xd00003ff (0x400) MX[B] [10] -1 0 0xe0000000 - 0xdfffffff (0x0) MX[B]O [11] -1 0 0xf0000000 - 0xf7ffffff (0x8000000) MX[B](B) [12] -1 0 0xd1000000 - 0xd1ffffff (0x1000000) MX[B](B) [13] 0 0 0x000a0000 - 0x000affff (0x10000) MS[B] [14] 0 0 0x000b0000 - 0x000b7fff (0x8000) MS[B] [15] 0 0 0x000b8000 - 0x000bffff (0x8000) MS[B] [16] -1 0 0x0000ffff - 0x0000ffff (0x1) IX[B] [17] -1 0 0x00000000 - 0x000000ff (0x100) IX[B] [18] -1 0 0x00003000 - 0x000030ff (0x100) IX[B] [19] -1 0 0x00002000 - 0x0000207f (0x80) IX[B] [20] -1 0 0x00002400 - 0x000024ff (0x100) IX[B] [21] -1 0 0x000018c0 - 0x000018ff (0x40) IX[B] [22] -1 0 0x00001c00 - 0x00001cff (0x100) IX[B] [23] -1 0 0x00001880 - 0x0000189f (0x20) IX[B] [24] -1 0 0x00001860 - 0x0000186f (0x10) IX[B] [25] -1 0 0x00000374 - 0x00000374 (0x1) IX[B] [26] -1 0 0x00000170 - 0x00000170 (0x1) IX[B] [27] -1 0 0x000003f4 - 0x000003f4 (0x1) IX[B] [28] -1 0 0x000001f0 - 0x000001f0 (0x1) IX[B] [29] -1 0 0x00001840 - 0x0000185f (0x20) IX[B] [30] -1 0 0x00001820 - 0x0000183f (0x20) IX[B] [31] -1 0 0x00001800 - 0x0000181f (0x20) IX[B] [32] 0 0 0x000003b0 - 0x000003bb (0xc) IS[B] [33] 0 0 0x000003c0 - 0x000003df (0x20) IS[B] (II) Setting vga for screen 0. (II) Loading sub module "vgahw" (II) LoadModule: "vgahw" (II) Loading /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/libvgahw.a (II) Module vgahw: vendor="The XFree86 Project" compiled for 4.3.0, module version = 0.1.0 ABI class: XFree86 Video Driver, version 0.6 (**) NVIDIA(0): Depth 16, (--) framebuffer bpp 16 (==) NVIDIA(0): RGB weight 565 (==) NVIDIA(0): Default visual is TrueColor (==) NVIDIA(0): Using gamma correction (1.0, 1.0, 1.0) (--) NVIDIA(0): Linear framebuffer at 0xF0000000 (--) NVIDIA(0): MMIO registers at 0xD1000000 (II) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU detected as: GeForce2 Go (--) NVIDIA(0): VideoBIOS: 03.11.01.38.12 (--) NVIDIA(0): Interlaced video modes are not supported on this GPU (II) NVIDIA(0): Detected AGP rate: 4X Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol xf86XvMCDestroyAdaptorRec from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbPictureInit from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbValidateGC from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbGCPrivateIndex from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbCreateGC from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbCreateWindow from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol fbCloseScreen from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol xf86XvMCCreateAdaptorRec from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! *** If unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not *** be the reason for the server aborting. Fatal server error: Caught signal 7. Server aborting _____________________________________________________________ XF86Config follows # XFree86 4 configuration created by redhat-config-xfree86 Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Multihead layout" Screen 0 "Screen0" LeftOf "Screen1" Screen 1 "Screen1" 0 0 InputDevice "Mouse0" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "DevInputMice" "AlwaysCore" Option "Xinerama" "off" # Option "Clone" "on" EndSection Section "Files" # RgbPath is the location of the RGB database. Note, this is the name of the # file minus the extension (like ".txt" or ".db"). There is normally # no need to change the default. # Multiple FontPath entries are allowed (they are concatenated together) # By default, Red Hat 6.0 and later now use a font server independent of # the X server to render fonts. RgbPath "/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/rgb" FontPath "unix/:7100" EndSection Section "Module" Load "dbe" Load "extmod" # Load "fbdevhw" Load "glx" # Load "record" Load "freetype" Load "type1" # Load "v4l" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # Specify which keyboard LEDs can be user-controlled (eg, with xset(1)) # Option "Xleds" "1 2 3" # To disable the XKEYBOARD extension, uncomment XkbDisable. # Option "XkbDisable" # To customise the XKB settings to suit your keyboard, modify the # lines below (which are the defaults). For example, for a non-U.S. # keyboard, you will probably want to use: # Option "XkbModel" "pc102" # If you have a US Microsoft Natural keyboard, you can use: # Option "XkbModel" "microsoft" # # Then to change the language, change the Layout setting. # For example, a german layout can be obtained with: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # or: # Option "XkbLayout" "de" # Option "XkbVariant" "nodeadkeys" # # If you'd like to switch the positions of your capslock and # control keys, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:swapcaps" # Or if you just want both to be control, use: # Option "XkbOptions" "ctrl:nocaps" # Identifier "Keyboard0" Driver "keyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" Option "XkbModel" "pc105" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/psaux" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" EndSection Section "InputDevice" # If the normal CorePointer mouse is not a USB mouse then # this input device can be used in AlwaysCore mode to let you # also use USB mice at the same time. Identifier "DevInputMice" Driver "mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" VendorName "Monitor Vendor" ModelName "LCD Panel 1024x768" HorizSync 31.5 - 48.5 VertRefresh 40.0 - 70.0 Option "dpms" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor1" VendorName "Monitor Vendor" ModelName "Monitor 1024x768" HorizSync 31.5 - 57.0 VertRefresh 50.0 - 70.0 Option "dpms" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard0" # Driver "nv" Driver "nvidia" VendorName "Videocard vendor" BoardName "nVidia GeForce 2 Go" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Videocard1" # Driver "nv" Driver "nvidia" VendorName "Videocard Vendor" BoardName "nVidia GeForce 2 Go" BusID "PCI:1:0:0" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Videocard0" Monitor "Monitor0" DefaultDepth 16 SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen1" Device "Videocard1" Monitor "Monitor1" DefaultDepth 16 SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1024x768" EndSubSection EndSection Section "DRI" Group 0 Mode 0666 EndSection -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 13:17:23 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:17:23 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> References: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <20040902091723.4e40efbd.hgibson@eol.ca> On 29 Aug 2004 22:32:40 -0400 Paul King wrote: > I have a PROMISE card which has some unformatted LINUX partitions and > some Windows partitions. It detects under Windows, but is only detected > by the kernel under LINUX. Paul, I had problems with my Promise card too. What follows are my personal notes on setting up my Promise card. _________________________________________________________ Setting up the Promise Card There are no instructions on the Promise website on setting up an Ultra100TX2 card for Linux. I emailed their support about this, and they sent me a document, in Word format, of course. This covered the setup of Red Hat 6.2 and 7.0. 1. Boot Red Hat from the CD. 2. When the graphical installer comes up, hit [Ctrl][Alt][F2] to get into a virtual terminal. 3. From the terminal, type "cat /proc/pci | less". 4. They describe the sequence you are supposed to find. I found the following, copied labouriously from the screen... Bus 0, device 12, function 0: Class 0180: PCI device 105a:4d69 (rev 2). IRQ 11. Master Capable. No bursts. Min Gnt=4.Max Lat=18. I/O at 0xb800 [0xb807] I/O at 0xb400 [0xb403] I/O at 0xb000 [0xb007] I/O at 0xa800 [0xa803] I/O at 0xa400 [0xa40f] Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xd5000000 [0xd5003fff] Write down the first four values, starting from 0xb800 in this example. The "0x" indicates that the value is in hexadecimal format. The remaining four digits are the hexadecimal number. 5. The next thing I was to do was to type in... ide2=0xb800,0xb402 ide3=0xb000,0xa802 Note how I added 2 to the second and fourth values that I pulled off the previous output. 6. Reboot. I could not find a (re)boot commmand, so I hit reset. 7. When the boot prompt comes up type... boot: linux ide2=0xb800,0xb402 ide3=0xb000,0xa802 The Promise instructions said to use the word "text", but I used "linux" instead. The word "linux" selects the standard graphic install. The word "text" causes a plain text install. 8. The instructions describe how to configure LILO to use these boot parameters. On Red Hat 8, we are using GRUB. We will get those parameters in somehow. _________________________________________________________ When I booted Red Hat 8.0, it (something) found the Promise card. Anaconda did not find it. Here are my boot loader notes. _________________________________________________________ Boot Loader I agreed to a boot loader on /dev/hde1. I have entered a boot loader password, and I clicked the "Configure advanced boot loader" button. This is my chance to enter the Promise card values into the boot line, automatically. The next thing it asked me for were the boot loader parameters. I entered my Promise card boot string. _________________________________________________________ -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 13:26:33 2004 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:26:33 -0400 Subject: Dead circuit boards needed Message-ID: <20040902092633.A3164@ee.ryerson.ca> I'd like to have my engineering students do an exercise in desoldering and resoldering some surface mount chips. I'm hoping that someone has a source or knows of a source of dead circuit boards that could be used to practice on. Earlier this year we had lots of them at Ryerson but our department has just moved into a new building so there was a purge of the 'junk'. (This illustrates one of the corrolaries of the Law of Maximum Aggravation: Immediately you dispose of something it will become useful.) I'm going to focus on the low-pin-count IC's rather than the hundred pin monsters, but most boards have mix. Any suggestions where I should look? Thanks - Peter -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 13:33:14 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:33:14 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <1094112970.6721.11.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 04:16:10AM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > Hi I'm trying to install the latest nvidia driver and can't seem to get > it to work. Below I've posted the results of the XF86config log as well > as XF86Config itself. Can anyone give me any suggestions as to what is > wrong. I'm using Fedora 1 and a low latency kernel from Planet CCRMA. > Thanks > Jim > [snip] > (II) NVIDIA(0): NVIDIA GPU detected as: GeForce2 Go > (--) NVIDIA(0): VideoBIOS: 03.11.01.38.12 > (--) NVIDIA(0): Interlaced video modes are not supported on this GPU > (II) NVIDIA(0): Detected AGP rate: 4X > Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol xf86XvMCDestroyAdaptorRec from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbPictureInit from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbValidateGC from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbGCPrivateIndex from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbCreateGC from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbCreateWindow from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbWinPrivateIndex from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol fbCloseScreen from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol xf86XvMCCreateAdaptorRec from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > > *** If unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not > *** be the reason for the server aborting. > > Fatal server error: > Caught signal 7. Server aborting [snip] Well it looks like the kernel module doesn't have everything the X driver wants. Is the kernel module the same version as the driver (6111 in this case I guess)? Bad things happen if they don't match. I have 6111 working just fine on 2.6.7 on Debian, so the driver is capable of working at least. I did use the Debian installer for it though, not nvidia's installer. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 13:36:33 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:36:33 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <20040902091723.4e40efbd.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> <20040902091723.4e40efbd.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20040902133633.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 09:17:23AM -0400, Howard Gibson wrote: > On 29 Aug 2004 22:32:40 -0400 > Paul King wrote: > > > I have a PROMISE card which has some unformatted LINUX partitions and > > some Windows partitions. It detects under Windows, but is only detected > > by the kernel under LINUX. > > Paul, > > I had problems with my Promise card too. What follows are my personal notes on setting up my Promise card. > _________________________________________________________ > > Setting up the Promise Card > > There are no instructions on the Promise website on setting up > an Ultra100TX2 card for Linux. I emailed their support about > this, and they sent me a document, in Word format, of course. > This covered the setup of Red Hat 6.2 and 7.0. > 1. Boot Red Hat from the CD. > 2. When the graphical installer comes up, hit [Ctrl][Alt][F2] > to get into a virtual terminal. > 3. From the terminal, type "cat /proc/pci | less". > 4. They describe the sequence you are supposed to find. I > found the following, copied labouriously from the > screen... > > Bus 0, device 12, function 0: > Class 0180: PCI device 105a:4d69 (rev 2). > IRQ 11. > Master Capable. No bursts. Min Gnt=4.Max Lat=18. > I/O at 0xb800 [0xb807] > I/O at 0xb400 [0xb403] > I/O at 0xb000 [0xb007] > I/O at 0xa800 [0xa803] > I/O at 0xa400 [0xa40f] > Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xd5000000 [0xd5003fff] > > > Write down the first four values, starting from 0xb800 in > this example. The "0x" indicates that the value is in > hexadecimal format. The remaining four digits are the > hexadecimal number. > 5. The next thing I was to do was to type in... > > ide2=0xb800,0xb402 ide3=0xb000,0xa802 > > > Note how I added 2 to the second and fourth values that I > pulled off the previous output. > 6. Reboot. I could not find a (re)boot commmand, so I hit > reset. > 7. When the boot prompt comes up type... > > boot: linux ide2=0xb800,0xb402 ide3=0xb000,0xa802 > > > The Promise instructions said to use the word "text", but > I used "linux" instead. The word "linux" selects the > standard graphic install. The word "text" causes a plain > text install. > 8. The instructions describe how to configure LILO to use > these boot parameters. On Red Hat 8, we are using GRUB. We > will get those parameters in somehow. > _________________________________________________________ > > When I booted Red Hat 8.0, it (something) found the Promise card. Anaconda did not find it. Here are my boot loader notes. > > _________________________________________________________ > > Boot Loader > > I agreed to a boot loader on /dev/hde1. I have entered a boot > loader password, and I clicked the "Configure advanced boot > loader" button. This is my chance to enter the Promise card > values into the boot line, automatically. > > The next thing it asked me for were the boot loader > parameters. I entered my Promise card boot string. > _________________________________________________________ Well any newer linux kernel supports that chip just fine, and kernels that are older simply do not. The hack to force it to use it as a plain ide chip is just a bad idea, so forget about those parameters, and just get something with a kernel from the last 2 years and you should be fine. Don't try to use a very obsolete distribution, since it won't support it well if at all. All newer distribution releases (all current ones for that matter) will work just fine. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 13:50:21 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:50:21 -0400 Subject: Dead circuit boards needed In-Reply-To: <20040902092633.A3164-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902092633.A3164@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20040902135021.GA2599@seahorse> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 09:26:33AM -0400, Peter Hiscocks wrote: > I'd like to have my engineering students do an exercise in desoldering and > resoldering some surface mount chips. I'm hoping that someone has a source > or knows of a source of dead circuit boards that could be used to practice > on. Earlier this year we had lots of them at Ryerson but our department has > just moved into a new building so there was a purge of the 'junk'. (This > illustrates one of the corrolaries of the Law of Maximum Aggravation: > Immediately you dispose of something it will become useful.) Hi Peter; I don't know if you're hoping for "dead + free" or "possibly dead + cheap" boards, but the last time I went to Active Surplus on Queen they still had boxes upon boxes of WD8013 ISA NICs. This was prior to their reno, so the boxes might not be in the basement anymore. The nics are sufficiently old that all the functionality isn't squashed into a single chip, and there's always the nice big PROM socket to work on. Plus the boards are small and easy to handle. I'd not be surprised if you went to the cash with a big box of 'em you could get a nice bulk discount ;-). Cheers, Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 13:40:50 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:40:50 -0400 Subject: Dead circuit boards needed In-Reply-To: <20040902092633.A3164-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902092633.A3164@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <200409020940.50652.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 2, 2004 09:26 am, Peter Hiscocks wrote: > I'm going to focus on the low-pin-count IC's rather than the hundred pin > monsters, but most boards have mix. Any suggestions where I should look? It might be worth checking a place like Above All Electronics, they sell junk boards very cheaply. It's quite likely that they also have all kinds of things that aren't even worthy of a $2-$5 price tag and just end up getting tossed, they might be willing to give you stuff rather than having to pay for disposal. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 14:22:15 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:22:15 -0400 Subject: major hard drive problems! Message-ID: <4386c5b2040902072268ea3c55@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I recently reinstalled fedora core 2 on a Dell laptop. It was working fine prior to the reinstall, but after the install completed, I was given error message similar to the following: First, during the boot process... PCI: Cannot allocate resource region 4 of device 00:07.1 Limiting direct PCI/PCI transfers. a bit later in the startup process, the startup is halted as fsck is run on the startup volume, with a segmentation fault. In dmesg, the following hints: general protection fault: ea38 CPU: 0 EIP: 0050:[<00003319>] Not tainted EFLAGS: 00210046 eax: 00000246 ebx: 00000001 ecx: 00000000 edx: 00000000 esi: 000000ff edi: 00200014 ebp: c260bea0 esp: c260be98 ds: 0058 es: 0000 ss: 0018 Process fsck.ext2 (pid: 3254, stackpage=c260b000) Stack: 5c0f5a94 0000bea0 00000058 00ff0246 beb40050 00000001 530a0000 00200216 00485c5f c8af0000 ffffffff d0be9126 00000010 ffffffff 00200246 00000018 00200018 c260bf66 000000ff ffffffff ffffffff 002341e3 00000003 ffffffff Call Trace: [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] [] Code: Bad EIP value. Now, I can mount the drives no problem when I use a rescue disk, but I can't startup from this hard drive! Please help. :-) Thanks, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 14:27:54 2004 From: hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Hoshil N. Desai) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 10:27:54 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <20040902000811.7fcf48fa.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902000811.7fcf48fa.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20040902142814.444636D9AA@lethe.ss.org> I finally got the script to work. I had to remove all the error checking (the if-else) and that did it. With the if-else statements in place I was getting the following two errors: mkJPEGdir: line 18: syntax error near unexpected token `elif' 'kJPEGdir: line 18: `elif [ ! -d "${JPEGdir}" ]; then I thought I was introducing some extra characters while downloading so I tried wget http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson/mkJPEGdir Thus making sure I was not adding anything to the original file. But still the errors persisted. Anyways, I got it to work without the if-else and it saved me downloading and configuring one of the image galleries. Thanks for the script Howard. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Howard Gibson Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:08 AM To: Hoshil Desai Cc: Toronto Linux User's Group Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Shrinking Images On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 14:45:23 -0400 "Hoshil Desai" wrote: > Hi Howard, > > This is probably a very stupid question (that's why I am asking it off the > list) but I could not get that script to work. > > I tried sh mkJPEGdir - It didn't work > > I tried chmod a+x mkJPEGdir followed by a ./mkJPEGdir and it didn't work. > > In both the cases I got some token not found error. > > Maybe I am doing something really wrong. I have other bash scripts which > work without a hitch. If you could direct me in the right direction, I > would appreciate it. Hoshil, I cc'ed the list on this because someone else may recognize it. I am unable to reproduce your token not found error. I assume you have ImageMagick installed because renaming the convert command causes a command not found error. Retyping variables incorrectly causes them to contain no data. There is no explicit error message, although the output is messed up. Changing the command shell from sh to all sorts of other stuff often messed up, but not with the token not found error. What happened when you typed ./mkJPEGdir on its own? If you give it anything other than three operators, you should get a usage message. It is always possible that some kind of error crept in on your download. Try saving the file again. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 15:15:21 2004 From: akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adil Kodian) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:15:21 -0600 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> <20040901153306.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7aa37fa80409020815d76bd18@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 1 Sep 2004 11:46:20 -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > AFAIK it's technically possible for cablemodems in general to go > faster, since I'm > remembering something about the coax pipe running at 30Mbps; I've never > had solid proof that any modems have been made with more than a 10bT ethernet AFAIK cable modems cant support more than 10mbps because it is a csma-cd shared medium over which they transmit. For 100mbps, the number of collisions would be too high on shared medium. (thats why you have switched ethernet now). To run 100mbps, they would need to provide a dedicated channel to each household all the way to the switch. And at 4.7mhz per channel, they will need a lot more cable switches. > > -- > taa > /*eof*/ > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Microsoft Windows: A thirty-two bit extension to a sixteen-bit patch to an eight-bit operating system coded for a four-bit microprocessor by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 15:21:27 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 11:21:27 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <7aa37fa80409020815d76bd18-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> <20040901153306.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7aa37fa80409020815d76bd18@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 09:15:21 -0600, Adil Kodian wrote: > AFAIK cable modems cant support more than 10mbps because it is a > csma-cd shared medium over which they transmit. For 100mbps, the > number of collisions would be too high on shared medium. (thats why > you have switched ethernet now). To run 100mbps, they would need to > provide a dedicated channel to each household all the way to the > switch. And at 4.7mhz per channel, they will need a lot more cable > switches. Ah, but I'm not talking transmit speed, only download-to-the-cablemodem speed. There's no issue with collisions on the down pipe, since it's all being transmitted from one central place (the CO). The upstream pipes have always been smaller (768kbps on the old uncapped modems). And back in that day, cablemodems really WERE fast, because so few people had them, and so few people were online. It's funny to think that they've actually gotten slower in some ways... ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 18:08:47 2004 From: skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Srinivasan Krishnan) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:08:47 -0400 Subject: [Employment] Entry level Linux job Message-ID: <1094148527.1138.9.camel@ambipapa> Farematrix Inc. is looking for an entry level Linux programmer and system administrator with Perl, C and basic Linux and Windows administration skills. If interested, please send a copy of your resume to krishnan-iZsVJbH0xwRN8Ch2cx6nig at public.gmane.org, in text, PS or PDF format. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 18:31:30 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:31:30 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) Message-ID: <20040902183239.506B06D784@lethe.ss.org> Howdy all, Can anyone recommend a very small motherboard for a project I am working on? A client wants me to build a tiny self standing system in a very small case. Something like the Bubba keg computer. Doesn't have to be AMD or Intel, Via is fine for what I need. Bottom line, small and cheap :) I was recently in the US for a couple weeks working at a client's, and on the way to and from the hotel I left my laptop on war driving. In both Boston and NYC, the thing lit up like Christmas. In Cambridge alone, I got close to 100 on one street near Harvard Square, the number of access points was really astounding. I found myself parking on side streets and getting amazing leech access, good to get a couple tunes to listen to while stuck in traffic or while lost (thank goodness for GPS) Sid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 18:35:27 2004 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven meyer) Date: 02 Sep 2004 14:35:27 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040902183239.506B06D784-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902183239.506B06D784@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <1094150126.2619.1.camel@XANDROS> How small and how cheap? I may be able to help. Steven On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 14:31, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Howdy all, > > > > Can anyone recommend a very small motherboard for a project I am > working on? A client wants me to build a tiny self standing system in > a very small case. Something like the Bubba keg computer. Doesn?t have > to be AMD or Intel, Via is fine for what I need. Bottom line, small > and cheap :) > > > > I was recently in the US for a couple weeks working at a client?s, and > on the way to and from the hotel I left my laptop on war driving. In > both Boston and NYC, the thing lit up like Christmas. In Cambridge > alone, I got close to 100 on one street near Harvard Square, the > number of access points was really astounding. I found myself parking > on side streets and getting amazing leech access, good to get a couple > tunes to listen to while stuck in traffic or while lost (thank > goodness for GPS) > > > > Sid > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 18:41:48 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:41:48 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040902133314.GH8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> > On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 04:16:10AM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > > Hi I'm trying to install the latest nvidia driver and can't seem to get > > it to work. Below I've posted the results of the XF86config log as well > > as XF86Config itself. Can anyone give me any suggestions as to what is > > wrong. I'm using Fedora 1 and a low latency kernel from Planet CCRMA. > > Thanks > > Jim > > > [snip] > [snip] > > Well it looks like the kernel module doesn't have everything the X > driver wants. Is the kernel module the same version as the driver (6111 > in this case I guess)? Bad things happen if they don't match. > > I have 6111 working just fine on 2.6.7 on Debian, so the driver is > capable of working at least. I did use the Debian installer for it > though, not nvidia's installer. Thanks Lennart, I got rid of a lot of errors by putting Load "fb" in my XF86Config file . Now I'm left with the following errors. Is it possible to see your XF86Config file? Symbol xf86XvMCDestroyAdaptorRec from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! Symbol xf86XvMCCreateAdaptorRec from module /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! *** If unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not *** be the reason for the server aborting. This is what I have on my system Here is what I have in /usr/X11R6/lib/ What am I missing?? [jim at localhost lib]$ ls libXv* libXv.a libXvMCNVIDIA.a libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 libXv.so.1 libXvMC.a libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 libXv.so Jim > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 18:45:40 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 14:45:40 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <1094150126.2619.1.camel@XANDROS> References: <1094150126.2619.1.camel@XANDROS> Message-ID: <20040902184615.61E726D270@lethe.ss.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of steven > meyer > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 2:35 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) > > How small and how cheap? I may be able to help. > > Steven Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anything fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and build into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 19:07:50 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:07:50 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040902184615.61E726D270-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902184615.61E726D270@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <41376F86.8030405@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 | Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anything | fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and build | into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. http://www.mini-itx.com/ A local supplier that was showing mini-itx stuff at the linux expo this summer is CompuSmart: 151 Yonge St 416-504-6444 www.torontocomputsmart.com Personally, I'd be interested in one of these if it had at least 3 ethernet ports, wlan, dual (preferably hotswap) hdd, a slim-dvd burner, rack mountable 1U form factor and was really nice and quite. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBN2+Egfzn5SevSpoRAq1yAJ9feTLgmItDRINjb7mNT9RkKFL9IgCeLOqZ 9/YIrPO/Ue57L7hV65rTRK4= =3FYo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 19:08:21 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:08:21 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040902184615.61E726D270-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094150126.2619.1.camel@XANDROS> <20040902184615.61E726D270@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040902190820.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:45:40PM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anything > fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and build > into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. For that price, why not find an old laptop (pentium cpu level) and plop a pcmcia card in that? That gives you nice screen, keyboard, pcmcia, power, etc, all in one convinient package. Something like a thinkpad 560 or something might be a good size. Less fun than building from scratch though I must admit, but more productive. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 19:42:27 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:42:27 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <1094150507.7888.7.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:41:48PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > Thanks Lennart, > I got rid of a lot of errors by putting > Load "fb" > in my XF86Config file . Now I'm left with the following errors. Is it > possible to see your XF86Config file? > > > Symbol xf86XvMCDestroyAdaptorRec from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > Symbol xf86XvMCCreateAdaptorRec from module > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > > *** If unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not > *** be the reason for the server aborting. > > > > This is what I have on my system > > Here is what I have in /usr/X11R6/lib/ What am I missing?? > [jim at localhost lib]$ ls libXv* > libXv.a libXvMCNVIDIA.a libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 libXv.so.1 > libXvMC.a libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 libXv.so ---XF86Config-4 START--- # XF86Config-4 (XFree86 X Window System server configuration file) # # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using # values from the debconf database. # # Edit this file with caution, and see the XF86Config-4 manual page. # (Type "man XF86Config-4" at the shell prompt.) # # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xfree86 package upgrades *only* # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xfree86 # package. # # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated # again, run the following commands as root: # # cp /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 /etc/X11/XF86Config-4.custom # md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum # dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 Section "Files" FontPath "unix/:7100" # local font server # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" EndSection Section "Module" Load "GLcore" Load "bitmap" Load "dbe" Load "ddc" Load "dri" Load "extmod" Load "freetype" Load "glx" Load "int10" Load "record" Load "speedo" Load "type1" Load "vbe" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Generic Keyboard" Driver "keyboard" Option "CoreKeyboard" Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" Option "XkbModel" "pc104" Option "XkbLayout" "us" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Configured Mouse" Driver "mouse" Option "CorePointer" Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "NVIDIA Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" Driver "nvidia" EndSection Section "Monitor" Identifier "Samsung 753DF" HorizSync 30-70 VertRefresh 50-160 Option "DPMS" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Default Screen" Device "NVIDIA Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" Monitor "Samsung 753DF" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 1 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 4 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 8 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 15 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 16 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" EndSubSection EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Default Layout" Screen "Default Screen" InputDevice "Generic Keyboard" InputDevice "Configured Mouse" EndSection Section "DRI" Mode 0666 EndSection ---XF86Config-4 END--- libXv*: -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12582 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.a lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Jun 17 12:39 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.so -> libXv.so.1 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Jun 17 12:39 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.so.1 -> libXv.so.1.0 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 14828 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.so.1.0 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7560 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMC.a -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 179066 Aug 5 17:09 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA.a lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Aug 23 09:31 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1 -> libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 165632 Aug 5 17:09 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Aug 23 09:31 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 -> libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7560 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMC_pic.a Does any of that give you any ideas? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 19:42:35 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:42:35 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040902190820.GJ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902190820.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040902194318.702AF6D9CC@lethe.ss.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart > Sorensen > Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 3:08 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) > > On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:45:40PM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anything > > fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and > build > > into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. > > For that price, why not find an old laptop (pentium cpu level) and plop > a pcmcia card in that? > > That gives you nice screen, keyboard, pcmcia, power, etc, all in one > convinient package. > > Something like a thinkpad 560 or something might be a good size. Less > fun than building from scratch though I must admit, but more productive. > :) > > Lennart Sorensen I am looking for something smaller than a laptop. I want to have the versatility to mod it into an interesting case. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 19:44:33 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:44:33 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <41376F86.8030405-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <41376F86.8030405@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20040902194508.E2C186D9E5@lethe.ss.org> > > | Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anything > | fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and > build > | into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. > > http://www.mini-itx.com/ > > A local supplier that was showing mini-itx stuff at the linux expo this > summer is CompuSmart: > > 151 Yonge St > 416-504-6444 > www.torontocomputsmart.com > Thank you Andrew! This is perfect, just what I was looking for. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 19:55:51 2004 From: fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org (george fiala) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 15:55:51 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040902194508.E2C186D9E5-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902194508.E2C186D9E5@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <1094154951.1694.8.camel@IQPartnersfiala.netscreen-5> Before you go there, check out www.factorydirect.ca, they have a better selection and from the looks of it, could have better prices. On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 15:44, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > > > | Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anything > > | fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and > > build > > | into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. > > > > http://www.mini-itx.com/ > > > > A local supplier that was showing mini-itx stuff at the linux expo this > > summer is CompuSmart: > > > > 151 Yonge St > > 416-504-6444 > > www.torontocomputsmart.com > > > > Thank you Andrew! This is perfect, just what I was looking for. > > Sid > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml GEORGE FIALA Director, IT & Emerging Technologies Practice IQ Partners, Inc. 99 Spadina Avenue, Suite 650 Toronto, Ontario M5V 3P8 416.599.4700 x224 We connect smart people and great companies. ______________________________________________________________________________________________ IQ Partners is an integrated HR Services company. We provide flexible human resource solutions to help intelligent companies hire better, hire less & retain more. Our services include HR Consulting, Executive Search, Qualification & Assessment, Employee Development, Career Management and Contract HR Services. We specialize in Marketing, Communications, Media, Technology and Financial Services and operate at the mid-to-senior management level. IQ Partners has offices in Toronto and Ottawa and is a member of the Aravati Global Search Network. For more information, please visit www.IQPartners.com. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 20:40:06 2004 From: linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Alwin Raymundo) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 16:40:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Gmail Message-ID: <20040902204006.63868.qmail@web41407.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, I'm interested to get gmail. If someone can invite me. I appreciated so much. Thanks in Advance. Paul Raymundo --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 2 21:16:55 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 17:16:55 -0400 Subject: Gmail In-Reply-To: <20040902204006.63868.qmail-38TutsxaAEqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902204006.63868.qmail@web41407.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040902211655.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 04:40:06PM -0400, Alwin Raymundo wrote: > I'm interested to get gmail. If someone can invite me. I appreciated so much. > > Thanks in Advance. Are you drowning yet? If not I have 6 invites waiting. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 00:49:35 2004 From: linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Alwin Raymundo) Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 20:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Gmail In-Reply-To: <20040902211655.GL8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902211655.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040903004935.90633.qmail@web41412.mail.yahoo.com> Not yet. But Sergio Salvi invite so I already have an account. Thanks to everybody. Alwin Raymundo Lennart Sorensen wrote: On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 04:40:06PM -0400, Alwin Raymundo wrote: > I'm interested to get gmail. If someone can invite me. I appreciated so much. > > Thanks in Advance. Are you drowning yet? If not I have 6 invites waiting. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 02:38:30 2004 From: Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Nezumikozo) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:38:30 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040902194508.E2C186D9E5-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902194508.E2C186D9E5@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <4137D926.2090400@sympatico.ca> This is cool to see. I work for CompuSmart Toronto and I didn't know they were at the Linux Expo! If you know what board you want, email me off line and I might be able to get it in for you. Jay hoeffer at sympatico.ca Sidney Shapiro wrote: >>| Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anything >>| fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and >>build >>| into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. >> >>http://www.mini-itx.com/ >> >>A local supplier that was showing mini-itx stuff at the linux expo this >>summer is CompuSmart: >> >>151 Yonge St >>416-504-6444 >>www.torontocomputsmart.com >> >> >> > >Thank you Andrew! This is perfect, just what I was looking for. > >Sid > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 02:59:54 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 22:59:54 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <1094154951.1694.8.camel-yg8RxoFaGjUKl6j+TCdI87580jQOvV8nOSw0YjJ/KQQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902194508.E2C186D9E5@lethe.ss.org> <1094154951.1694.8.camel@IQPartnersfiala.netscreen-5> Message-ID: <20040903025954.A26304593@cbbrowne.com> > On Thu, 2004-09-02 at 15:44, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > > > > > > | Not sure how cheap, I was thinking about $500-$600 I don't need anythin g > > > | fancy, just small and functional. I wanted something small to try and > > > build > > > | into a small modded case; sacrificing speed for space is fine. > > > > > > http://www.mini-itx.com/ > > > > > > A local supplier that was showing mini-itx stuff at the linux expo this > > > summer is CompuSmart: > > > > > > 151 Yonge St > > > 416-504-6444 > > > www.torontocomputsmart.com > Before you go there, check out www.factorydirect.ca, they have a > better selection and from the looks of it, could have better prices. I don't see any Mini-ITX hardware at either site. The only places I have seen Mini-ITX stuff have been rather pricey. Canada Computers has plenty of Mini-ATX hardware that's not _quite_ as small, but that is probably cheaper. I wish there more vendors around carrying VIA Eden/Nehemiah hardware, but it hasn't caught on well enough. -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','ntlug.org'). http://cbbrowne.com/info/emacs.html "In elementary school, in case of fire you have to line up quietly in a single file line from smallest to tallest. What is the logic? Do tall people burn slower?" -- Warren Hutcherson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 04:02:38 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 02 Sep 2004 23:02:38 -0500 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <20040902091723.4e40efbd.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <4137A68E.28591.425BD3@localhost> Thanks for your help. I will try this out. Looks like it could also be something to place under /etc/lilo.conf. Paul King > On 29 Aug 2004 22:32:40 -0400 > Paul King wrote: > > > I have a PROMISE card which has some unformatted LINUX partitions and > > some Windows partitions. It detects under Windows, but is only detected > > by the kernel under LINUX. > > Paul, > > I had problems with my Promise card too. What follows are my personal notes > on setting up my Promise card. > _________________________________________________________ > > Setting up the Promise Card > > There are no instructions on the Promise website on setting up > an Ultra100TX2 card for Linux. I emailed their support about > this, and they sent me a document, in Word format, of course. > This covered the setup of Red Hat 6.2 and 7.0. > 1. Boot Red Hat from the CD. > 2. When the graphical installer comes up, hit [Ctrl][Alt][F2] > to get into a virtual terminal. > 3. From the terminal, type "cat /proc/pci | less". > 4. They describe the sequence you are supposed to find. I > found the following, copied labouriously from the > screen... > > Bus 0, device 12, function 0: > Class 0180: PCI device 105a:4d69 (rev 2). > IRQ 11. > Master Capable. No bursts. Min Gnt=4.Max Lat=18. > I/O at 0xb800 [0xb807] > I/O at 0xb400 [0xb403] > I/O at 0xb000 [0xb007] > I/O at 0xa800 [0xa803] > I/O at 0xa400 [0xa40f] > Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xd5000000 [0xd5003fff] > > > Write down the first four values, starting from 0xb800 in > this example. The "0x" indicates that the value is in > hexadecimal format. The remaining four digits are the > hexadecimal number. > 5. The next thing I was to do was to type in... > > ide2=0xb800,0xb402 ide3=0xb000,0xa802 > > > Note how I added 2 to the second and fourth values that I > pulled off the previous output. > 6. Reboot. I could not find a (re)boot commmand, so I hit > reset. > 7. When the boot prompt comes up type... > > boot: linux ide2=0xb800,0xb402 ide3=0xb000,0xa802 > > > The Promise instructions said to use the word "text", but > I used "linux" instead. The word "linux" selects the > standard graphic install. The word "text" causes a plain > text install. > 8. The instructions describe how to configure LILO to use > these boot parameters. On Red Hat 8, we are using GRUB. We > will get those parameters in somehow. > _________________________________________________________ > > When I booted Red Hat 8.0, it (something) found the Promise card. Anaconda > did not find it. Here are my boot loader notes. > > _________________________________________________________ > > Boot Loader > > I agreed to a boot loader on /dev/hde1. I have entered a boot > loader password, and I clicked the "Configure advanced boot > loader" button. This is my chance to enter the Promise card > values into the boot line, automatically. > > The next thing it asked me for were the boot loader > parameters. I entered my Promise card boot string. > _________________________________________________________ > > > -- > Howard Gibson > hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org > howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org > http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 07:48:38 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 03:48:38 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040902194227.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040903034838.3f7e1a00@pingu.opus> On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:42:27 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:41:48PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > > Thanks Lennart, > > I got rid of a lot of errors by putting > > Load "fb" > > in my XF86Config file . Now I'm left with the following errors. Is it > > possible to see your XF86Config file? > > > > > # cp /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 /etc/X11/XF86Config-4.custom > # md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum > # dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 > Section "Files" > FontPath "unix/:7100" # local font server > # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" > EndSection > Section "Module" My latest info states that Load "Glcore" should be removed as well as Load "dri". Check the readme file that is generated during the install. This was running 1.0.4363 driver though. It may be under /usr/share/doc/nvidia-glx/README.gz > Load "GLcore" > Load "bitmap" > Load "dbe" > Load "ddc" > Load "dri" > Load "extmod" > Load "freetype" > Load "glx" > Load "int10" > Load "record" > Load "speedo" > Load "type1" > Load "vbe" > EndSection HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 13:11:44 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:11:44 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040903034838.3f7e1a00-Kui6G6Updn6cqzYg7KEe8g@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040903034838.3f7e1a00@pingu.opus> Message-ID: <20040903131144.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 03:48:38AM -0400, John Myshrall wrote: > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:42:27 -0400 > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > > On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:41:48PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > > > Thanks Lennart, > > > I got rid of a lot of errors by putting > > > Load "fb" > > > in my XF86Config file . Now I'm left with the following errors. Is it > > > possible to see your XF86Config file? > > > > > > > > > > > # cp /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 /etc/X11/XF86Config-4.custom > > # md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum > > # dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 > > Section "Files" > > FontPath "unix/:7100" # local font server > > # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" > > EndSection > > Section "Module" > > > My latest info states that Load "Glcore" should be removed as well as Load "dri". Check the readme file that is generated during the install. This was running 1.0.4363 driver though. > > It may be under /usr/share/doc/nvidia-glx/README.gz I am pretty sure the 5xxx and 6xxx drivers have not required that. At least it works very well for me as is, and I think removing them may even break it now. At least it does no harm. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 18:06:44 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 14:06:44 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040902194227.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1094234803.3928.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks Lennart, I'll have a look at this and see if it helps me up and running X. Seconding what John said, the documentation from NVIDIA says that dri and GLcore should be removed but I agree if it works leave it alone, look what happened to me : ( . Jim > On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:41:48PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > > Thanks Lennart, > > I got rid of a lot of errors by putting > > Load "fb" > > in my XF86Config file . Now I'm left with the following errors. Is it > > possible to see your XF86Config file? > > > > > > Symbol xf86XvMCDestroyAdaptorRec from module > > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > > Symbol xf86XvMCCreateAdaptorRec from module > > /usr/X11R6/lib/modules/drivers/nvidia_drv.o is unresolved! > > > > *** If unresolved symbols were reported above, they might not > > *** be the reason for the server aborting. > > > > > > > > This is what I have on my system > > > > Here is what I have in /usr/X11R6/lib/ What am I missing?? > > [jim at localhost lib]$ ls libXv* > > libXv.a libXvMCNVIDIA.a libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 libXv.so.1 > > libXvMC.a libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 libXv.so > > ---XF86Config-4 START--- > # XF86Config-4 (XFree86 X Window System server configuration file) > # > # This file was generated by dexconf, the Debian X Configuration tool, using > # values from the debconf database. > # > # Edit this file with caution, and see the XF86Config-4 manual page. > # (Type "man XF86Config-4" at the shell prompt.) > # > # This file is automatically updated on xserver-xfree86 package upgrades *only* > # if it has not been modified since the last upgrade of the xserver-xfree86 > # package. > # > # If you have edited this file but would like it to be automatically updated > # again, run the following commands as root: > # > # cp /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 /etc/X11/XF86Config-4.custom > # md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum > # dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 > Section "Files" > FontPath "unix/:7100" # local font server > # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" > EndSection > Section "Module" > Load "GLcore" > Load "bitmap" > Load "dbe" > Load "ddc" > Load "dri" > Load "extmod" > Load "freetype" > Load "glx" > Load "int10" > Load "record" > Load "speedo" > Load "type1" > Load "vbe" > EndSection > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Generic Keyboard" > Driver "keyboard" > Option "CoreKeyboard" > Option "XkbRules" "xfree86" > Option "XkbModel" "pc104" > Option "XkbLayout" "us" > EndSection > Section "InputDevice" > Identifier "Configured Mouse" > Driver "mouse" > Option "CorePointer" > Option "Device" "/dev/input/mice" > Option "Protocol" "ImPS/2" > Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" > EndSection > Section "Device" > Identifier "NVIDIA Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" > Driver "nvidia" > EndSection > Section "Monitor" > Identifier "Samsung 753DF" > HorizSync 30-70 > VertRefresh 50-160 > Option "DPMS" > EndSection > Section "Screen" > Identifier "Default Screen" > Device "NVIDIA Corporation NV34 [GeForce FX 5200]" > Monitor "Samsung 753DF" > DefaultDepth 24 > SubSection "Display" > Depth 1 > Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 4 > Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 8 > Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 15 > Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 16 > Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > SubSection "Display" > Depth 24 > Modes "1152x864" "1024x768" "800x600" "640x480" > EndSubSection > EndSection > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "Default Layout" > Screen "Default Screen" > InputDevice "Generic Keyboard" > InputDevice "Configured Mouse" > EndSection > Section "DRI" > Mode 0666 > EndSection > ---XF86Config-4 END--- > > libXv*: > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12582 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.a > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 10 Jun 17 12:39 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.so -> > libXv.so.1 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 12 Jun 17 12:39 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.so.1 -> > libXv.so.1.0 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 14828 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXv.so.1.0 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7560 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMC.a > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 179066 Aug 5 17:09 > /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA.a > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Aug 23 09:31 > /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1 -> libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 165632 Aug 5 17:09 > /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 > lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 25 Aug 23 09:31 > /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMCNVIDIA_dynamic.so.1 -> libXvMCNVIDIA.so.1.0.6111 > -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7560 May 29 08:33 /usr/X11R6/lib/libXvMC_pic.a > > Does any of that give you any ideas? > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 19:10:48 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:10:48 -0400 Subject: Digium products in Toronto Message-ID: <4138C1B8.3080301@deeptown.org> Hi guys, I am looking for Digium Wildcard TDM400P card with 1 analog FXS and 1 analog FXO module installed, here in Toronto. Does anyone knows where I can find it in Toronto for today? PS: I called to John Sellens, but he is not office right now. I want to buy it today, to play with Asterisk. PPS: John, if you reading this message, could you ring me a call to (647) 287-8448? All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 19:29:04 2004 From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:29:04 -0400 Subject: Digium products in Toronto In-Reply-To: <4138C1B8.3080301-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4138C1B8.3080301@deeptown.org> Message-ID: <4138C600.3000003@mgamble.ca> You can try http://www.wwworks-inc.com/ I got my digium cards from them and they are local (Burlington). Regards, M. Gamble Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > Hi guys, > > I am looking for Digium Wildcard TDM400P card with 1 analog FXS and 1 > analog FXO module installed, here in Toronto. > Does anyone knows where I can find it in Toronto for today? > > PS: I called to John Sellens, but he is not office right now. I want > to buy it today, to play with Asterisk. > PPS: John, if you reading this message, could you ring me a call to > (647) 287-8448? > > > All the Best! > Sergey. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 19:35:52 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:35:52 -0400 Subject: Digium products in Toronto In-Reply-To: <4138C600.3000003-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4138C1B8.3080301@deeptown.org> <4138C600.3000003@mgamble.ca> Message-ID: <4138C798.9000802@deeptown.org> Hi Matthew, Yes, I saw their web-site, but It about 100 kilometers in one way, and tonight it will be lots of traffic in that direction. But anyway, thanks for help! PS: I am working at hwy404/hwy7 and living at DVP/York Mills. All the Best! Sergey. Matthew M. Gamble wrote: > You can try http://www.wwworks-inc.com/ > I got my digium cards from them and they are local (Burlington). > > Regards, > > M. Gamble > > Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> I am looking for Digium Wildcard TDM400P card with 1 analog FXS and 1 >> analog FXO module installed, here in Toronto. >> Does anyone knows where I can find it in Toronto for today? >> >> PS: I called to John Sellens, but he is not office right now. I want >> to buy it today, to play with Asterisk. >> PPS: John, if you reading this message, could you ring me a call to >> (647) 287-8448? >> >> >> All the Best! >> Sergey. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 19:55:07 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 15:55:07 -0400 Subject: Digium products in Toronto In-Reply-To: <4138C600.3000003-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <4138C1B8.3080301@deeptown.org> <4138C600.3000003@mgamble.ca> Message-ID: <4138CC1B.9040904@deeptown.org> Thanks to everyone! I already called to John Sellens. All the Best! Sergey. Matthew M. Gamble wrote: > You can try http://www.wwworks-inc.com/ > I got my digium cards from them and they are local (Burlington). > > Regards, > > M. Gamble > > Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > >> Hi guys, >> >> I am looking for Digium Wildcard TDM400P card with 1 analog FXS and 1 >> analog FXO module installed, here in Toronto. >> Does anyone knows where I can find it in Toronto for today? >> >> PS: I called to John Sellens, but he is not office right now. I want >> to buy it today, to play with Asterisk. >> PPS: John, if you reading this message, could you ring me a call to >> (647) 287-8448? >> >> >> All the Best! >> Sergey. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 16:21:33 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:21:33 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040903131144.GN8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040903034838.3f7e1a00@pingu.opus> <20040903131144.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040903122133.3378c4b4@pingu.opus> On Fri, 3 Sep 2004 09:11:44 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 03:48:38AM -0400, John Myshrall wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Sep 2004 15:42:27 -0400 > > lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: > > > > > On Thu, Sep 02, 2004 at 02:41:48PM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > > > > Thanks Lennart, > > > > I got rid of a lot of errors by putting > > > > Load "fb" > > > > in my XF86Config file . Now I'm left with the following errors. Is it > > > > possible to see your XF86Config file? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > # cp /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 /etc/X11/XF86Config-4.custom > > > # md5sum /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 > /var/lib/xfree86/XF86Config-4.md5sum > > > # dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86 > > > Section "Files" > > > FontPath "unix/:7100" # local font server > > > # if the local font server has problems, we can fall back on these > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" > > > FontPath "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi" > > > EndSection > > > Section "Module" > > > > > > My latest info states that Load "Glcore" should be removed as well as Load "dri". Check the readme file that is generated during the install. This was running 1.0.4363 driver though. > > > > It may be under /usr/share/doc/nvidia-glx/README.gz > > I am pretty sure the 5xxx and 6xxx drivers have not required that. At > least it works very well for me as is, and I think removing them may > even break it now. At least it does no harm. > > Lennart Sorensen I just checked. It still says these should be removed. I'm running 1.0-5336 >From file:/usr/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX-1.0/README If you already have an XF86Config file working with a different driver (such as the 'nv' or 'vesa' driver), then all you need to do is find the relevant Device section and replace the line: Driver "nv" (or Driver "vesa") with Driver "nvidia" In the Module section, make sure you have: Load "glx" You should also remove the following lines: Load "dri" Load "GLcore" if they exist. There are also numerous options that can be added to the XF86Config file to fine-tune the NVIDIA XFree86 driver. Please see Appendix D for a complete list of these options. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 16:42:47 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 12:42:47 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <1094234803.3928.2.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094234803.3928.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040903124247.7b8c1912@pingu.opus> On Fri, 03 Sep 2004 14:06:44 -0400 jim ruxton wrote: > Thanks Lennart, > I'll have a look at this and see if it helps me up and running X. > Seconding what John said, the documentation from NVIDIA says that dri > and GLcore should be removed but I agree if it works leave it alone, > look what happened to me : ( . > Jim > I had this problem with Debian. I got spoiled by the Suse install. Debian is great as well. BTW GLcore and dri are both removed on my system Try running ldd `which glxgears' | grep libGL You may have a problem with the libGL.so and LibGL.so.1. Check /usr/lib/tls. If for some reason they stay linked try renaming. The files that should be used are the libGL.so.(your version#) and libGL.so.1.(your version#). They will be in the same directory. HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 3 21:18:36 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:18:36 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040902183239.506B06D784-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902183239.506B06D784@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <4138DFAC.2040602@detachednetworks.ca> Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Howdy all, > > Can anyone recommend a very small motherboard for a project I am > working on? A client wants me to build a tiny self standing system in > a very small case. Something like the Bubba keg computer. Doesn?t have > to be AMD or Intel, Via is fine for what I need. Bottom line, small > and cheap :) > > I was recently in the US for a couple weeks working at a client?s, and > on the way to and from the hotel I left my laptop on war driving. In > both Boston and NYC, the thing lit up like Christmas. In Cambridge > alone, I got close to 100 on one street near Harvard Square, the > number of access points was really astounding. I found myself parking > on side streets and getting amazing leech access, good to get a couple > tunes to listen to while stuck in traffic or while lost (thank > goodness for GPS) > > Sid > http://www.eprom.com They have Mini-ITX, and Nano-ITX. Located 750 Cochrane Drive in Markham -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 4 02:52:25 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 22:52:25 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040903124247.7b8c1912-Kui6G6Updn6cqzYg7KEe8g@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094234803.3928.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040903124247.7b8c1912@pingu.opus> Message-ID: <20040904025225.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 03, 2004 at 12:42:47PM -0400, John Myshrall wrote: > I had this problem with Debian. I got spoiled by the Suse install. Debian is great as well. > > BTW GLcore and dri are both removed on my system > > Try running > > ldd `which glxgears' | grep libGL > > You may have a problem with the libGL.so and LibGL.so.1. Check /usr/lib/tls. If for some reason they stay linked try renaming. > The files that should be used are the libGL.so.(your version#) and libGL.so.1.(your version#). They will be in the same directory. The TLS stuff is handled nicely by Debian on boot, where it detects if the current kernel needs/supports it or not, and sets up the right links for you automatically. Rather handy. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 4 04:10:59 2004 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 00:10:59 -0400 Subject: MySql gui interface Message-ID: <41394053.2090302@alteeve.com> What would you say was a good MySql user interface for a person brought up on windows? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 4 07:52:17 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 03:52:17 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040903124247.7b8c1912-Kui6G6Updn6cqzYg7KEe8g@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094234803.3928.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040903124247.7b8c1912@pingu.opus> Message-ID: <1094284336.3926.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks John, Here is the result of: # ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x40011000) libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x49efe000) libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x49e1e000) libpthread.so.0 => /lib/i686/libpthread.so.0 (0x49f0e000) libm.so.6 => /lib/i686/libm.so.6 (0x49df5000) libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x49cb8000) libGLcore.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0x4007a000) libnvidia-tls.so.1 => /usr/lib/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.1 (0x40752000) libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x49e19000) /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x49ca0000) and: # ldd `which glxgears` | grep libGL libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x40011000) libGLcore.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0x4007a000) Does this look right? Jim > > > Thanks Lennart, > > I'll have a look at this and see if it helps me up and running X. > > Seconding what John said, the documentation from NVIDIA says that dri > > and GLcore should be removed but I agree if it works leave it alone, > > look what happened to me : ( . > > Jim > > > > > I had this problem with Debian. I got spoiled by the Suse install. Debian is great as well. > > BTW GLcore and dri are both removed on my system > > Try running > > ldd `which glxgears' | grep libGL > > You may have a problem with the libGL.so and LibGL.so.1. Check /usr/lib/tls. If for some reason they stay linked try renaming. > The files that should be used are the libGL.so.(your version#) and libGL.so.1.(your version#). They will be in the same directory. > > HTH > > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 4 15:10:57 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 04 Sep 2004 11:10:57 -0400 Subject: MySql gui interface In-Reply-To: <41394053.2090302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41394053.2090302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4139DB01.8090400@interlog.com> Lance F. Squire wrote: > What would you say was a good MySql user interface for a person > brought up on windows? It depends on what you are expecting from a GUI for MySQL. One GUI tool that is handy to have around for MySQL is phpMyAdmin. You can find it at http://www.phpmyadmin.net/. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 04:26:10 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 00:26:10 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <4138DFAC.2040602-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902183239.506B06D784@lethe.ss.org> <4138DFAC.2040602@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <20040905042610.4366945A1@cbbrowne.com> > http://www.eprom.com > > They have Mini-ITX, and Nano-ITX. > > Located 750 Cochrane Drive in Markham It appears that you need to register as a customer, practically needing to send in a credit check, in order to get at more than merely product names. Does pricing warrant this? Are they OK to deal with? -- select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'cbbrowne.com'; http://cbbrowne.com/info/spreadsheets.html MICROS~1: The company that brought new meaning to "Nervous System" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 15:08:12 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 11:08:12 -0400 Subject: MySql gui interface In-Reply-To: <41394053.2090302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41394053.2090302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1094396891.3210.0.camel@192.168.1.80> On Sat, 2004-09-04 at 00:10, Lance F. Squire wrote: > What would you say was a good MySql user interface for a person brought > up on windows? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I have used the MySQL Control Centre and it was pretty good: http://www.mysql.com/products/mysqlcc/ later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 18:43:56 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 14:43:56 -0400 Subject: Small Parts (+war driving comment :) In-Reply-To: <20040905042610.4366945A1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040902183239.506B06D784@lethe.ss.org> <4138DFAC.2040602@detachednetworks.ca> <20040905042610.4366945A1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <413B5E6C.4050800@detachednetworks.ca> Christopher Browne wrote: >>http://www.eprom.com >> >>They have Mini-ITX, and Nano-ITX. >> >>Located 750 Cochrane Drive in Markham >> >> > >It appears that you need to register as a customer, practically needing >to send in a credit check, in order to get at more than merely product >names. > >Does pricing warrant this? Are they OK to deal with? >-- >select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'cbbrowne.com'; >http://cbbrowne.com/info/spreadsheets.html >MICROS~1: The company that brought new meaning to "Nervous System" >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > I ran into then at the Real World Linux Show. I have not yet had any dealings with them, I just kept the information on file as I will be needing these boards in the near future. The pricing I was given was better than anywhere else I was able to find these VIA boards. Give them a call. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 19:14:01 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 15:14:01 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos Message-ID: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> Greetings all, Wow... been quite awhile since I posted to the list. The new job (well, ~4 months or so now) has had me kinda busy but in a good way. So I thought I'd drop in and say 'Hello again' to everyone. I'm thinking, once again, of easing myself into some hardware upgrades for home. In particular, I want to pick up an SMP system or 2. I'm not a gamer, so wicked graphics performance isn't a huge concern as long as I can do 1280x1024 in 24 bit colour. Don't need a whole lot of HDD space (40GB would be fine) and 512MB should be enough for memory. Hell, all I really need is a barebone system with MB, CPUs and maybe memory (since all I got now is SDRAM). I remember there was a Toronto company that dealt with making fairly high end linux systems, w/ SMP, Promise cards, etc. I can't remember the name so if anyone else does, let me know! Otherwise I'll just ask for peoples experience, or the latest street wisdom, as it pertains to SMP motherboards and CPU availability. I'm somewhat CPU agnostic, so I don't really care if it's AMD or Intel. The 'Most Bang for the Buck' is what I'm looking at hear, and the smaller the form factor the better. And, as if to show that I'm truly becoming an old man, the quieter the system the better, too! ;) Normally I'd just hit the computer alley (College&Spadina) but perhaps it's time I branch off and start investigating what's available up Markham way or elsewhere. I'd even drive a healthy amount of km to another town if there was a kickass shop or person that offered something outstanding. BTW, here's my new fantasy (look at the DS-96): http://www.orionmulti.com/products/descriptions Later, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 19:32:25 2004 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 15:32:25 -0400 Subject: MySql gui interface In-Reply-To: <1094396891.3210.0.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <41394053.2090302@alteeve.com> <1094396891.3210.0.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <413B69C9.5080704@alteeve.com> Devin Whalen wrote: > > I have used the MySQL Control Centre and it was pretty good: > http://www.mysql.com/products/mysqlcc/ > Thanks All for the input. So far this has been the best solution for us. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 21:42:45 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2004 17:42:45 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413B6579.1010500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> > I'm thinking, once again, of easing myself into some hardware upgrades > for home. In particular, I want to pick up an SMP system or 2. I'm not > a gamer, so wicked graphics performance isn't a huge concern as long > as I can do 1280x1024 in 24 bit colour. Don't need a whole lot of HDD > space (40GB would be fine) and 512MB should be enough for > memory. Hell, all I really need is a barebone system with MB, CPUs and > maybe memory (since all I got now is SDRAM). This begs the question of what you expect your actual performance bottlenecks to be. If you're not doing "wicked graphics," then I wouldn't expect CPU load to be high on the list. For the $400-odd premium you'd pay for an SMP motherboard and CPU, I'd expect you could upgrade to SCSI disk, or to have a couple GB of RAM, both of which commonly give better boosts than an extra CPU. I would find it very surprising for you to need only pedestrian disk and memory but find "premium" CPU hardware of use... -- output = reverse("moc.enworbbc" "@" "enworbbc") http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/nonrdbms.html Computer Science is embarrassed by the computer. -- Alan Perlis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 18:03:42 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 14:03:42 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <1094284336.3926.33.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094234803.3928.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040903124247.7b8c1912@pingu.opus> <1094284336.3926.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040905140342.53797fac@pingu.opus> On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 03:52:17 -0400 jim ruxton wrote: > Thanks John, > > Here is the result of: > # ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears > libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x40011000) > libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x49efe000) > libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x49e1e000) > libpthread.so.0 => /lib/i686/libpthread.so.0 (0x49f0e000) > libm.so.6 => /lib/i686/libm.so.6 (0x49df5000) > libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x49cb8000) > libGLcore.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0x4007a000) > libnvidia-tls.so.1 => /usr/lib/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.1 > (0x40752000) > libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x49e19000) > /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x49ca0000) > > and: > > # ldd `which glxgears` | grep libGL > libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x40011000) > libGLcore.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0x4007a000) > > Does this look right? > Jim Your output is the same as mine. However like I said before load dri and load GLcore are removed in my XConfig. > > > > ldd `which glxgears' | grep libGL > > > > You may have a problem with the libGL.so and LibGL.so.1. Check /usr/lib/tls. If for some reason they stay linked try renaming. > > The files that should be used are the libGL.so.(your version#) and libGL.so.1.(your version#). They will be in the same directory. > > > > HTH > > > > John > > -- What I did worked on a Libranet install which is Debian based however some will say it's a bastardize Debian. I renamed those files libGL.so.bu & LibGL.so.1.bu After this everything worked. I'm not sure sure why this problem occurs though. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 5 22:22:30 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 18:22:30 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413B6579.1010500-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040905222230.GA4053@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Sep 05, 2004 at 03:14:01PM -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > I'm thinking, once again, of easing myself into some hardware upgrades > for home. In particular, I want to pick up an SMP system or 2. I'm not a > gamer, so wicked graphics performance isn't a huge concern as long as I > can do 1280x1024 in 24 bit colour. Don't need a whole lot of HDD space > (40GB would be fine) and 512MB should be enough for memory. Hell, all I > really need is a barebone system with MB, CPUs and maybe memory (since > all I got now is SDRAM). Well, I have dual-P3, but any current single-cpu blows it away. If you have to ask about SMP, then you don't need it. Instead, spend the money on extra harddisk (for backup/spare), more RAM, printer, DVD, better monitor, better case/power supply, etc. Even SCSI disk will give you better bang for the money than extra cpu. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 6 00:36:50 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 5 Sep 2004 20:36:50 -0400 Subject: Dumb, dumb, dependancies Message-ID: <20040906003650.GA20440@m1800> I use ssmtp to emulate sendmail forwarding to IStop's MTA. The binary is named (wait for it) "ssmtp", and there is also the option of creating a symlink called "sendmail". I did that once, just once. That's when I discovered that cron jobs can be very verbose, and send email to root. Since ssmtp forwards to IStop's MTA, my cron job outputs started going to root-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (oops). When they sent me an email saying "please stop", I deleted the "sendmail" symlink. Now mutt is configured to use "/usr/sbin/ssmtp" as its sendmail-equivalant command and cron jobs don't see a usable MTA. Fast-forward to August. A few packages will not install on Debian because the libs are so old. A new, updated, stable release is due out in a matter of weeks, but I use it as an excuse to try CRUX linux on my 2nd machine. Everything's compiled "-O2 -march=i686". The CRUX "ports" system for applications is neat. It grabs the unmodified tarball off the download site, and uses a metadata file to control compile options. Think of it as an automated linux-from-scratch. Remember that I mentioned that I deleted the "sendmail" symlink to avoid embarressing incidents? Well, it turns out that both gnupg and slrn will *NOT* build if they can't find an executable named "/usr/sbin/sendmail" (slrn does offer the choice of using a *DIFFERENT* MTA as a ./configure option, but does *NOT* offer the choice of *NO* MTA). These stupidities are not the CRUX port-maintainer's fault. They're hard-coded right into the the configure or make files in the tarballs. I find this exceedingly dumb. Interestingly, mutt is much nicer in this area. It allows you to set the MTA in the muttrc, rather than hard-coding it into the executable like slrn or gnupg. And it'll function perfectly as a mail-reader with the MTA-pointer commented out. Since I read mailing lists and usenet news, I occasionally slip and hit "r" in news. Disabling slrn from sending email is a safety feature for me. And I really don't understand where the gnupg maintainer gets off requiring the presence of "/usr/sbin/sendmail". Unless I'm missing something, my MUA is supposed to call gnupg to sign and/or encrypt email, after which my MUA sends the email to an MTA; or is gnupg supposed to be able to send out email on its own? Anyhow, since the idiots insist, I've stuck in /usr/sbin/sendmail and made it executable, like so... #!/bin/bash # This file is dedicated to those ####wit programmers who set up config # files such that their programs will not even attempt to build or # install if they can't find an executable named "/usr/sbin/sendmail" exit -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 6 21:01:19 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 17:01:19 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040905214246.1000545A1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> > This begs the question of what you expect your actual > performance bottlenecks to be. Well, it's not always about bottlenecks you know... sometimes a bigger hammer doesn't help you solve a problem nearly as fast as a bunch of smaller hammers. It depends on the nature of the problem. > I would find it very surprising for you to need only > pedestrian disk and memory but find "premium" > CPU hardware of use... Be surprised. The way I work, I find that an extra arm comes in handy more frequently than one realizes. Especially where clustering comes in to play. I'm not a windows user, ya know ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 6 21:21:40 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 17:21:40 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413CD01F.8040502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040906212140.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 05:01:19PM -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > Well, it's not always about bottlenecks you know... sometimes a bigger > hammer doesn't help you solve a problem nearly as fast as a bunch of > smaller hammers. It depends on the nature of the problem. Perhaps, but knocking down a wall with 10 one pound happers is likely not going to be faster than one 20 pound hammer. Getting an old SMP box costing more than a new single cpu machine is usually silly, since the single cpu machine will have more processing power than the SMP machine's cpu's have combined, and it will have newer faster memory and newer faster disk access. > Be surprised. The way I work, I find that an extra arm comes in handy > more frequently than one realizes. Especially where clustering comes in > to play. I'm not a windows user, ya know ;) Most of us try not to be windows users. SMP is a very good idea, but only if you have already exhausted what you can get in a single cpu machine. Adding lots of fast cpus is great. Lots of slow ones usually isn't. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 02:13:36 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 22:13:36 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413CD01F.8040502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> > > This begs the question of what you expect your actual > > performance bottlenecks to be. > > Well, it's not always about bottlenecks you know... sometimes a bigger > hammer doesn't help you solve a problem nearly as fast as a bunch of > smaller hammers. It depends on the nature of the problem. No, it is _always_ all about bottlenecks. It is _guaranteed_ that some component of the system will constrain performance of the application. Maybe it's the CPU(s), maybe you'll get hurt by memory bandwidth. Maybe disk bandwidth. Perhaps network bandwidth, or latency. For GUIed applications, the "performance bottleneck" is likely to be the idiot at the keyboard :-). If the bottleneck isn't the CPU, then increasing the number of CPUs won't help performance, plain and simple. >> I would find it very surprising for you to need only pedestrian disk >> and memory but find "premium" CPU hardware of use... > Be surprised. The way I work, I find that an extra arm comes in handy > more frequently than one realizes. Especially where clustering comes > in to play. I'm not a windows user, ya know ;) The economy of things normally is that if you have a system with a mere 512MB of RAM, it is almost certain that spending a couple hundred dollars to upgrade to 2GB of RAM will provide the cheapest and most effective performance upgrade. After that, it's likely that throwing in a $200 cacheing RAID controller and a few disk drives will be the next best upgrade. Heading on to SMP is the _third_ option, after the earlier cheaper ones. I find it _very_ surprising that extra CPU bandwidth is more compelling than memory or disk I/O bandwidth. Doubly so in that adding more CPUs makes the system readily able to chew up _more_ memory and disk I/O and network bandwidth. If you step up from 1 to 4 CPUs, that means running 4x as much code, accessing 4x as much memory, and having 4x as much data to throw at disks and NICs. We've got quad-Xeon boxes at work that actually start to _slow down_ as you scale up assortedly because: a) Hyperthreading pretty much just sucks; b) Context switches get _way_ more expensive when you break the 2GB barrier, which means that the last 6GB of memory on these boxes actually _slow_ performance, despite the stunning cost of the DIMMs :-( The big, big win with AMD-64 is _not_ primarily in the ability to have more CPUs, although it looks like it's no slouch there; the win is that you can address 32GB of RAM without the performance-destroying hackery of the Intel Xeons. -- let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sgml.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #25. "No matter how well it would perform, I will never construct any sort of machinery which is completely indestructible except for one small and virtually inaccessible vulnerable spot." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 03:11:45 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Mon, 06 Sep 2004 23:11:45 -0400 Subject: Problem with nvidia installer In-Reply-To: <20040905140342.53797fac-Kui6G6Updn6cqzYg7KEe8g@public.gmane.org> References: <1094112970.6721.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902133314.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094150507.7888.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040902194227.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094234803.3928.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040903124247.7b8c1912@pingu.opus> <1094284336.3926.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040905140342.53797fac@pingu.opus> Message-ID: <1094526705.3939.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks again John. Yes dri and GLcore are also removed from my XF86Config file. > On Sat, 04 Sep 2004 03:52:17 -0400 > jim ruxton wrote: > > > Thanks John, > > > > Here is the result of: > > # ldd /usr/X11R6/bin/glxgears > > libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x40011000) > > libXext.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libXext.so.6 (0x49efe000) > > libX11.so.6 => /usr/X11R6/lib/libX11.so.6 (0x49e1e000) > > libpthread.so.0 => /lib/i686/libpthread.so.0 (0x49f0e000) > > libm.so.6 => /lib/i686/libm.so.6 (0x49df5000) > > libc.so.6 => /lib/i686/libc.so.6 (0x49cb8000) > > libGLcore.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0x4007a000) > > libnvidia-tls.so.1 => /usr/lib/tls/libnvidia-tls.so.1 > > (0x40752000) > > libdl.so.2 => /lib/libdl.so.2 (0x49e19000) > > /lib/ld-linux.so.2 => /lib/ld-linux.so.2 (0x49ca0000) > > > > and: > > > > # ldd `which glxgears` | grep libGL > > libGL.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGL.so.1 (0x40011000) > > libGLcore.so.1 => /usr/lib/libGLcore.so.1 (0x4007a000) > > > > Does this look right? > > Jim > > Your output is the same as mine. However like I said before load dri and load GLcore are removed in my XConfig. > > > > > > > > > ldd `which glxgears' | grep libGL > > > > > > You may have a problem with the libGL.so and LibGL.so.1. Check /usr/lib/tls. If for some reason they stay linked try renaming. > > > The files that should be used are the libGL.so.(your version#) and libGL.so.1.(your version#). They will be in the same directory. > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > John > > > -- > > What I did worked on a Libranet install which is Debian based however some will say it's a bastardize Debian. > > I renamed those files libGL.so.bu & LibGL.so.1.bu > After this everything worked. I'm not sure sure why this problem occurs though. > > John > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 03:15:59 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:15:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040907021336.BE2E345A1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 6 Sep 2004, Christopher Browne wrote: > The economy of things normally is that if you have a system with a mere > 512MB of RAM, it is almost certain that spending a couple hundred > dollars to upgrade to 2GB of RAM will provide the cheapest and most > effective performance upgrade. There is no such thing as a "normal" system and nothing is "almost certain". Bumping the RAM in my POP server (>5000 entries in /etc/passwd) from 1GB to 2GB isn't going to make a material difference: ralph at ns ~$ free total used free shared buffers cached Mem: 905240 804992 100248 0 35316 478100 -/+ buffers/cache: 291576 613664 Swap: 2024168 60688 1963480 ralph at ns ~$ uptime 10:45pm up 96 days, 1:40, 5 users, load average: 0.69, 0.87, 0.84 vmstat will give you a good idea of where (if any) system bottlenecks are. swap io system cpu si so bi bo in cs us sy id 0 0 0 2 4 4 2 2 3 0 0 0 0 159 47 1 1 98 0 0 0 52 254 183 1 9 90 0 0 128 0 192 89 4 2 94 0 0 0 0 224 98 5 6 89 0 0 129 0 234 72 5 4 91 0 0 0 0 222 117 17 18 66 0 0 0 32 252 110 9 4 87 0 0 0 0 190 89 4 2 94 0 0 0 0 240 131 15 6 79 0 0 128 0 163 60 0 3 97 I can see that my CPU is mostly idle, so upgrading my 1Ghz duron CPU isn't going to make a difference. There's not much disk I/O, so my software RAID-1 setup is fine. Performance-wise this server is running fine. IMHO, the cheapest way to improve performance is through software. I used to run the pop server that came with Courier IMAP. I now get more than double the performance from nupop. hdparm tuning and using noatime on your filesystem will often give a big improvement to disk performance. Also consider tmpfs for /tmp. I backed out of using it on 2.4.24 due to crashes, but will probably give it a shot on my next kernel upgrade. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 03:27:21 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 6 Sep 2004 23:27:21 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040907021336.BE2E345A1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20040907032721.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 06, 2004 at 10:13:36PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: [snip] > We've got quad-Xeon boxes at work that actually start to _slow down_ as > you scale up assortedly because: > > a) Hyperthreading pretty much just sucks; That is not necesarily true. Intel's implementation may be the problem (like many other parts of the P4 design which just seems full of strange bottlenecks). > b) Context switches get _way_ more expensive when you break the > 2GB barrier, which means that the last 6GB of memory on these > boxes actually _slow_ performance, despite the stunning cost > of the DIMMs :-( Well that is certainly a big one. PAE's memory mapping or banking certainly doesn't help speed up things, although it should still beat swap space. > The big, big win with AMD-64 is _not_ primarily in the ability to have > more CPUs, although it looks like it's no slouch there; the win is that > you can address 32GB of RAM without the performance-destroying hackery > of the Intel Xeons. The athlon 64s also seem to get a lot more done per clock than the Xeons do. And they actually seem to be designed to work as a 64bit chip. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 04:03:31 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 00:03:31 -0400 Subject: OT: Book wanted (Program Development in Java) Message-ID: <200409070003.31324.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, I'm interested in buying the book "Program Development in Java: Abstraction, Specification, and Object-Oriented Design.". It's published by Addison Wesley, 2001. Author is Barbara Liskov. Unfortunately it's $85.99 and I don't like the idea of buying it without being able to browse the book first. I've checked stock in Chapters stores across the GTA and there is (supposedly) none. Does anyone know of an outlet store or other that may have this? I went into TO today hoping to find it at an outlet store but all of the outlet stores I knew of have permanently closed (except for PC Mania and it was closed for the holiday). Are there still any computer book specialty stores in the GTA (like the one that used to be near Yonge/Wellesley)? Thanks -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 07:18:56 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 17:18:56 +1000 (EST) Subject: Announcement: TLUG Meeting: Sept 14, 2004. Message-ID: Where: Room GB244, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ When: Sept 14, 2004. Speaker: William Park Topic: BASH Details: Bash-3.0 was released recently. Two notable additions from Bash-2.05b are regex test '=~' in [[...]] and integer sequence generator {x..y}. Bash patch written by William Park http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ http://freshmeat.net/projects/basp/ extends Bash's capability even more, giving other modern scripting languages a run for their money. His patch incorporates many useful features from Awk, Python, Zsh, Ksh, and others. In the main core, it adds the following: - new brace expansion {a..b} - new parameter expansion ${var|...} - new command substitution $(=...) - string concatenation (+=) - extended for, while, and until loops - extended case statement - new try-block with integer exception. As builtin commands, it adds the following: - extended set, read, echo builtins - sscanf(3) wrapper - variety of array and regex(3) operations - GDBM, SQLite, PostgreSQL, and MySQL database interfaces - an HTML template engine (BASP). He will give a quick tutorial on above features. People are encouraged to try it out, and any feedback on possible applications or feature requests are most welcome. Since everything is online, there will be no handouts or projector. Just chalk and blackboard. TLUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 14:18:15 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:18:15 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions Message-ID: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> Hey, I just installed a whole bunch of firefox extensions most of which are quite amazing, however, one of them seemed to cause a problem so that when I restarted firefox everything is messed up. And by messed up I mean I can't access any of the menu options (bookmarks,tools....) in fact I can't even type in the location bar to go to a site. So basically I have a browser that does nothing but look pretty. Is there anyway to remove the extensions from the command line. Or is there a file I can edit to remove the extensions so I can get back to normal? Thanks for the help. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 14:27:40 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 10:27:40 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions In-Reply-To: <1094566695.6694.4.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <413DC55C.4030409@canada.com> Devin, You should have an "extension" folder in your Firefox configuration (in your personal folder). Try to play with it (I have never done it). Hope that helps. Gilles Devin Whalen wrote: >Hey, > >I just installed a whole bunch of firefox extensions most of which are >quite amazing, however, one of them seemed to cause a problem so that >when I restarted firefox everything is messed up. And by messed up I >mean I can't access any of the menu options (bookmarks,tools....) in >fact I can't even type in the location bar to go to a site. So >basically I have a browser that does nothing but look pretty. Is there >anyway to remove the extensions from the command line. Or is there a >file I can edit to remove the extensions so I can get back to normal? > >Thanks for the help. > >Later > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 7 16:45:46 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 12:45:46 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions In-Reply-To: <413DC55C.4030409-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> <413DC55C.4030409@canada.com> Message-ID: <1094575545.6694.63.camel@192.168.1.80> On Tue, 2004-09-07 at 10:27, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > Devin, > > You should have an "extension" folder in your Firefox configuration (in > your personal folder). Try to play with it (I have never done it). > > Hope that helps. > > Gilles I just spent the last 2 hours trying to figure this out...I really like firefox :)...anyway, all of my preferences for firefox are not stored in .mozilla/firefox but rather in .phoenix/ !! How the hell that happened I don't know. At any rate I was able to delete the lines in my overlays.rdf that reference the bad extensions and everything seems to work fine now. Except that now all my bookmarks are lost...which really sucks but at least it is working again. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 02:20:00 2004 From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus) Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2004 22:20:00 -0400 Subject: (OT) VoIP In-Reply-To: <1094575545.6694.63.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094575545.6694.63.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040908022009.838926D86A@lethe.ss.org> Just a quick question for my fellow TLUGers: Has anyone switched over to VoIP yet? If so, how well does it work? I've been reading up on it and the costs (and their lowness) intrigue me, but don't want to switch if the quality will drive the Mrs insane. Thanks Frank in Mississauga J F M jfrankmccarron-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 02:30:41 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2004 22:30:41 -0400 Subject: (OT) VoIP In-Reply-To: <20040908022009.838926D86A-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908022009.838926D86A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040908023041.B33D545A1@cbbrowne.com> > Just a quick question for my fellow TLUGers: > > Has anyone switched over to VoIP yet? If so, how well does it work? > I've been reading up on it and the costs (and their lowness) intrigue > me, but don't want to switch if the quality will drive the Mrs insane. We're using it at work, through Telus, and modulo a couple of glitches where service kicked out (and they are evidently working pretty hard to eliminate that sort of thing), it works fine. A friend has been using at home, with somewhat less success. Connections had lots of little pauses. But I'm not sure how fast his connection is, and that could be a factor. -- output = reverse("gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc") http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/spreadsheets.html "All language designers are arrogant. Goes with the territory..." -- Larry Wall -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 05:04:12 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 01:04:12 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040907021336.BE2E345A1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> > No, it is _always_ all about bottlenecks. Feh; word play. Anyways, clearly I know nothing of what I talk about. Thankfully the assorted math and cryptanalysis routines I run on occasion aren't as dumb as I am. When I can buy a single CPU that runs at 96 GHz, let me know. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 07:51:56 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 03:51:56 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router Message-ID: <20040908075157.C2C146D270@lethe.ss.org> Hi All, Sent this a few hours ago and it has not yet posted, if it does, sorry for the double post. I am looking for a cheap (+/-$50) wireless B/G router. I saw a good one on factorydirect, but they don't have any in my area. Any one know of a deal in north york or close by? Thanks, Sid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 09:31:26 2004 From: littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (littleguru) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 05:31:26 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <20040908075157.C2C146D270-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908075157.C2C146D270@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <413ED16E.5010500@sympatico.ca> would you please let me know what is B/G router . I am using wireless Router which I have bought from bell . its about $68 , as I remember . the brand is efficiant network, just let me know what do you mean by B/G ? Border router / Gateway router ? Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Hi All, > > Sent this a few hours ago and it has not yet posted, if it does, sorry > for the double post. I am looking for a cheap (+/-$50) wireless B/G > router. I saw a good one on factorydirect, but they don?t have any in > my area. Any one know of a deal in north york or close by? > > Thanks, > > Sid > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 09:47:17 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 05:47:17 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <413ED16E.5010500-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <413ED16E.5010500@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040908094713.9C4D96D6B3@lethe.ss.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of littleguru > Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:31 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: cheap wireless router > > would you please let me know what is B/G router . > I am using wireless Router which I have bought from bell . > its about $68 , as I remember . > the brand is efficiant network, just let me know what do you mean by B/G ? > Border router / Gateway router ? > 802.11b = 11Mb/sec. Network "Speed" (Carrier transmission 2.4GHz) 802.11g = 54Mb/sec. Network "Speed" (Carrier transmission 2.4GHz) See http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Hardware.html for more info -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 13:27:12 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:27:12 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <413ED16E.5010500-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908075157.C2C146D270@lethe.ss.org> <413ED16E.5010500@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <413F08B0.3070107@rogers.com> I believe he's referring to the wireless standards 802.11b & 802.11g. littleguru wrote: > would you please let me know what is B/G router . > I am using wireless Router which I have bought from bell . > its about $68 , as I remember . > the brand is efficiant network, just let me know what do you mean by B/G ? > Border router / Gateway router ? > > Sidney Shapiro wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> Sent this a few hours ago and it has not yet posted, if it does, sorry >> for the double post. I am looking for a cheap (+/-$50) wireless B/G >> router. I saw a good one on factorydirect, but they don?t have any in >> my area. Any one know of a deal in north york or close by? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Sid >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 13:38:27 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:38:27 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <20040908075157.C2C146D270-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908075157.C2C146D270@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <200409080938.28006.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 8, 2004 03:51 am, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Sent this a few hours ago and it has not yet posted, if it does, sorry for > the double post. I am looking for a cheap (+/-$50) wireless B/G router. I > saw a good one on factorydirect, but they don't have any in my area. Any > one know of a deal in north york or close by? If I was after something like that I would use the Linksys WRT54G, it runs Linux after all ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tgoodaire-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 13:38:29 2004 From: tgoodaire-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (Tim Goodaire) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:38:29 -0300 Subject: Relocating to Toronto Message-ID: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello everyone, I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about connection speeds? Customer service? Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer gear. Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! Thanks, Tim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfriedt-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 13:47:17 2004 From: cfriedt-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 09:47:17 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto Message-ID: <7c95007c9373.7c93737c9500@ryerson.ca> Hi there, actually, there's a really great new isp in TO that offers a ridiculous amount of bandwidth and static for about as much as a typical home connection. They don't block any ports and have no problems with typical business traffic. This new ISP is called istop (just check out istop on google), but i use rogers downtown and i'm free to use port 25. Cheers, Christopher Friedt ----- Original Message ----- From: Tim Goodaire Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2004 9:38 am Subject: [TLUG]: Relocating to Toronto > Hello everyone, > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I > would like > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port > 25? All > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > connection speeds? Customer service? > > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer > gear.Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. > > Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! > > Thanks, > > Tim > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:01:02 2004 From: dgenn-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Dan Gennidakis) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <200409080938.28006.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200409080938.28006.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040908140102.82172.qmail@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Yes that is a good choice and there are many different customized firmware packagers that add customized features for the router (i.e. Sveasoft etc). It's cheap at Canada Computers. I think it's now selling for 65$. Fraser Campbell wrote:On September 8, 2004 03:51 am, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Sent this a few hours ago and it has not yet posted, if it does, sorry for > the double post. I am looking for a cheap (+/-$50) wireless B/G router. I > saw a good one on factorydirect, but they don't have any in my area. Any > one know of a deal in north york or close by? If I was after something like that I would use the Linksys WRT54G, it runs Linux after all ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:06:50 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:06:50 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <7c95007c9373.7c93737c9500-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c95007c9373.7c93737c9500@ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20040908140650.GB9376@butters.southtrak> I use Golden.net as an ISP. They have no download limits and I haven't had any problems with ports being blocked. My DSL service is 35$/month and includes 24/7 tech support. They don't officially support users who run their own servers. I don't have a static IP. On 09:47 Wed 08 Sep , Christopher Friedt wrote: > Hi there, > > actually, there's a really great new isp in TO that offers a ridiculous amount of bandwidth and static for about as much as a typical home connection. They don't block any ports and have no problems with typical business traffic. This new ISP is called istop (just check out istop on google), but i use rogers downtown and i'm free to use port 25. > > Cheers, > > Christopher Friedt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Goodaire > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2004 9:38 am > Subject: [TLUG]: Relocating to Toronto > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. > > > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I > > would like > > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port > > 25? All > > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > > connection speeds? Customer service? > > > > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer > > gear.Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. > > > > Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:10:51 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:10:51 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <200409080938.28006.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908075157.C2C146D270@lethe.ss.org> <200409080938.28006.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1094652651.5629.3.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 09:38 -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On September 8, 2004 03:51 am, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > > Sent this a few hours ago and it has not yet posted, if it does, sorry for > > the double post. I am looking for a cheap (+/-$50) wireless B/G router. I > > saw a good one on factorydirect, but they don't have any in my area. Any > > one know of a deal in north york or close by? > > If I was after something like that I would use the Linksys WRT54G, it runs > Linux after all ;-) Yep. I'd have to agree, and strongly recommend against D-Link stuff. I've had two wireless PCMCIA cards die after about a year of use. Like an idiot, I went out and got a D-Link DI-624 wireless-G router anyway. Very disappointing. It constantly makes a high-pitched squeal. It refuses to sit flat on a table (tips over). The setup GUI has problems with mozilla. Most importantly, it stops accepting new wireless connections every few days. I have to push the reset button all the time. Argh. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 13:56:44 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:56:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <7c95007c9373.7c93737c9500-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <7c95007c9373.7c93737c9500@ryerson.ca> Message-ID: s/new//g We've been offering ADSL service in Toronto for over 3 years now. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Christopher Friedt wrote: > Hi there, > > actually, there's a really great new isp in TO that offers a ridiculous amount of bandwidth and static for about as much as a typical home connection. They don't block any ports and have no problems with typical business traffic. This new ISP is called istop (just check out istop on google), but i use rogers downtown and i'm free to use port 25. > > Cheers, > > Christopher Friedt > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Tim Goodaire > Date: Wednesday, September 8, 2004 9:38 am > Subject: [TLUG]: Relocating to Toronto > > > Hello everyone, > > > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. > > > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I > > would like > > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port > > 25? All > > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > > connection speeds? Customer service? > > > > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer > > gear.Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. > > > > Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:16:36 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:16:36 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040908141640.9CCAD6D9E7@lethe.ss.org> I currently have Rogers 'Extreme' cable, which is a 5mbit/800k package. Runs $44.95/mo. I have to admit, it's pretty damn spanky. Haven't had any problems, and I run a whole bunch of things behind it (web/e-mail/db/...). New computer gear, Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com) is good, and so is Sonnam (www.sonnam.com). Not always the best staff, but they are cheap, and carry most of the newest stuff, and even some arcane stuff (read: server related). Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Goodaire Sent: September 8, 2004 9:38 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Relocating to Toronto Hello everyone, I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about connection speeds? Customer service? Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer gear. Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! Thanks, Tim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:24:43 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:24:43 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions In-Reply-To: <1094575545.6694.63.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> <413DC55C.4030409@canada.com> <1094575545.6694.63.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <413F162B.2050101@canada.com> I had a loss problem with my bookmark. There is an extensions for that. Well, there were 2 but last time I checked there was only one. This extensions is called Bookmarks Synchronizer 0.9.6 and you can find it under the category Bookmark. It synchronizes your bookmark with a backup saved on an FTP server (very easy I can also help you) at the xbel format (so very nice as well). The other extension was call Bookmark Backup (if I recall well) and saved your bookmark to a designed place every time you left Firefox. This extensions has disappeared (at least from the official extensions website). Hope it helps. Gilles Devin Whalen wrote: >On Tue, 2004-09-07 at 10:27, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > > >>Devin, >> >>You should have an "extension" folder in your Firefox configuration (in >>your personal folder). Try to play with it (I have never done it). >> >>Hope that helps. >> >>Gilles >> >> > >I just spent the last 2 hours trying to figure this out...I really like >firefox :)...anyway, all of my preferences for firefox are not stored in >.mozilla/firefox but rather in .phoenix/ !! How the hell that happened >I don't know. At any rate I was able to delete the lines in my >overlays.rdf that reference the bad extensions and everything seems to >work fine now. Except that now all my bookmarks are lost...which really >sucks but at least it is working again. > >Later > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:07:07 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:07:07 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040908140707.GA25025@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 10:38:29AM -0300, Tim Goodaire wrote: >I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from >Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG >meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. Welcome. >I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like >to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks >recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All >of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a >geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about >connection speeds? Customer service? Many do block port 25, but I have been very happy with www.istop.com They know and use Linux, they answer the phone when you call, have good rates, and do not block any ports. Static IPs are available, and the throughput is quite good - I regularly get 317kb/s download. Being ADSL the up is not so quick, but it is respectable. >Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer gear. >Preferably, some place with knowledgeable staff, and good prices. I have never found knowledgeable staff, but I have found friendly people with reasonable returns policies, which is good enough. There are a cluster of stores in the College and Spadina area that compete fiercely to ensure good prices and availability. With the exception of OTA computers; I and others on this list have horror stories about that store and its staff. >Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! Sunshine and exercise are good for geeks :-) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:30:40 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:30:40 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040908141640.9CCAD6D9E7-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908141640.9CCAD6D9E7@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b20409080730cf66989@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:16:36 -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > I currently have Rogers 'Extreme' cable, which is a 5mbit/800k package. > Runs $44.95/mo. I have to admit, it's pretty damn spanky. Haven't had any > problems, and I run a whole bunch of things behind it (web/e-mail/db/...). I'm on Rogers too, but I don't know which "edition" I'm on, since they recently started offering "extreme" and "express" versions of the service. Funny thing is, they both cost $44.95/month, bu extreme offers 5 Mb, while express is 3 Mb (same as istop, it seems). Any way for me to tell which version I'm on? I really like the look of istop, because of their static IP. But again, because it's DSL, I don't know what kind of service to expect, because it depends on distance to the central Bell station, right? Any thoughts on that? > > New computer gear, Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com) is good, and > so is Sonnam (www.sonnam.com). Not always the best staff, but they are > cheap, and carry most of the newest stuff, and even some arcane stuff (read: > server related). > I also like Tiger Direct; they're in markham (tigerdirect.ca) Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:35:36 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:35:36 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040908140707.GA25025-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908140707.GA25025@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200409081035.36985.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 8, 2004 10:07 am, William O'Higgins wrote: > Many do block port 25, but I have been very happy with www.istop.com > They know and use Linux, they answer the phone when you call, have good > rates, and do not block any ports. ?Static IPs are available, and the > throughput is quite good - I regularly get 317kb/s download. ?Being ADSL > the up is not so quick, but it is respectable. Have you noticed a significant slowdown in the last week? I used to always get the speeds you mention from Debian mirror sites but lately it's been 125KB/s and sometimes much worse. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:34:59 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:34:59 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions In-Reply-To: <413F162B.2050101-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> <413DC55C.4030409@canada.com> <1094575545.6694.63.camel@192.168.1.80> <413F162B.2050101@canada.com> Message-ID: <1094654099.28641.16.camel@192.168.1.80> On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 10:24, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > I had a loss problem with my bookmark. There is an extensions for > that. Well, there were 2 but last time I checked there was only one. > This extensions is called Bookmarks Synchronizer 0.9.6 and you can > find it under the category Bookmark. It synchronizes your bookmark > with a backup saved on an FTP server (very easy I can also help you) > at the xbel format (so very nice as well). > > The other extension was call Bookmark Backup (if I recall well) and > saved your bookmark to a designed place every time you left Firefox. > This extensions has disappeared (at least from the official extensions > website). > > Hope it helps. > > Gilles Hey, Thanks for the reply. I saw those two you mentioned. I am going to try to use the Bookmark Backup thing. Luckily, I had a backup of my bookmarks from 2 months ago so I didn't lose everything. The only thing is, installing the extensions is what caused the problem in the first place....but at least I know how to uninstall them from my preferences if firefox won't start :). Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:38:08 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:38:08 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20409080730cf66989-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20409080730cf66989@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040908143813.00EAF6DA00@lethe.ss.org> If you have a paid account at something like FilePlanet, the easiest way to check is to just download a file and see what kind of speeds you hit. I generally top out in the 650-700k/s range. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Vegh Sent: September 8, 2004 10:31 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Relocating to Toronto On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:16:36 -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > I currently have Rogers 'Extreme' cable, which is a 5mbit/800k package. > Runs $44.95/mo. I have to admit, it's pretty damn spanky. Haven't > had any problems, and I run a whole bunch of things behind it (web/e-mail/db/...). I'm on Rogers too, but I don't know which "edition" I'm on, since they recently started offering "extreme" and "express" versions of the service. Funny thing is, they both cost $44.95/month, bu extreme offers 5 Mb, while express is 3 Mb (same as istop, it seems). Any way for me to tell which version I'm on? I really like the look of istop, because of their static IP. But again, because it's DSL, I don't know what kind of service to expect, because it depends on distance to the central Bell station, right? Any thoughts on that? > > New computer gear, Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com) is good, > and so is Sonnam (www.sonnam.com). Not always the best staff, but > they are cheap, and carry most of the newest stuff, and even some arcane stuff (read: > server related). > I also like Tiger Direct; they're in markham (tigerdirect.ca) Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 14:39:34 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:39:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <200409081035.36985.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908140707.GA25025@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200409081035.36985.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Have you noticed a significant slowdown in the last week? I used to always > get the speeds you mention from Debian mirror sites but lately it's been > 125KB/s and sometimes much worse. That's the normal Sept back-to-school slowdown. Traffic on much of the North-American internet can double this time of the year. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:09:29 2004 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:09:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Tim Goodaire wrote: > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > connection speeds? Customer service? I also second the recommendation for IStop.com. It's nice to finally have an ISP whose techs are clueful and will support you even if you're using UNIX. Plus, having the IStop.com president on this mailing list speaks volumes! > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer gear. > Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. People have already recommended Canada Computers; I get all my brand-new gear there. It's always a madhouse on weekends so I recommend going after work during the week. Plus you can check out our nifty bohemian-type open-air market, Kensington Market, which is just down the street! A great place to pick up miscellaneous parts is Above-All Electronics on Bloor just west of Bathurst. It's a geek's paradise. There is also Active Surplus on Queen between Peter & John, but I wouldn't buy stuff there that I expect to work (cables aside). Corollary: If you want to buy stuff there, buy at least three, in case two are broken. - Julian -- [ Julian C. Dunn * ] [ WWW: www.aquezada.com/staff/julian/ * www.dreaming.org/~julian/ ] [ PGP: 0xFDC205B9 - 91B3 7A9D 683C 7C16 715F 442C 6065 D533 FDC2 05B9 ] [ "half a love is better than no love at all" - nerissa nields ] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:30:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:30:50 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <20040908075157.C2C146D270-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908075157.C2C146D270@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040908153050.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 03:51:56AM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Sent this a few hours ago and it has not yet posted, if it does, sorry for > the double post. I am looking for a cheap (+/-$50) wireless B/G router. I > saw a good one on factorydirect, but they don't have any in my area. Any > one know of a deal in north york or close by? Well I picked up a USR 8054 (B/G router) for $95 with a $50 mail in rebate at futureshop about 4 or 5 days ago. not sure how long that rebate offer is/was on for. At the moment they appear to have the D-Link DI-524 on sale for $90 and then they have a $40 mail in rebate, which I guess would bring it down to around the $50 you are looking for. It works great, although I had to go get the latest beta firmware to get WPA encryption instead of just WEP. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:32:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:32:50 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <1094652651.5629.3.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908075157.C2C146D270@lethe.ss.org> <200409080938.28006.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1094652651.5629.3.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20040908153250.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 10:10:51AM -0400, Austin wrote: > Yep. I'd have to agree, and strongly recommend against D-Link stuff. > I've had two wireless PCMCIA cards die after about a year of use. > > Like an idiot, I went out and got a D-Link DI-624 wireless-G router > anyway. Very disappointing. It constantly makes a high-pitched squeal. > It refuses to sit flat on a table (tips over). The setup GUI has > problems with mozilla. Most importantly, it stops accepting new > wireless connections every few days. I have to push the reset button > all the time. Argh. Hmm, that's even worse than my parents having to reset their linksys router (non wireless) about once a week. I think I will stick to Linux PCs as routers in the future. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:36:43 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:36:43 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409081116.31727.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409081116.31727.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20040908153643.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 11:16:31AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > I have XP and Linux (Mdk10) on my IBM ThinkPad. I can mount the XP drives on > Linux and read the files. The XP is configured to share the files on the > network. The /etc/fstab is set for the XPdriveC as rw. > Is there a way to write files from Linux to XP ? From all the experimenting I > did so far I concluded that it cannot be done. Am I wrong?? NTFS write support is not very safe to the filesystem in Linux. hence it is disabled by default. NTFS specifications are not public, so implementing it correctly is guesswork, which is never a good idea for filesystem drivers. To share data between Windows and Linux on one PC, create a data partition using FAT32 and everything will be happy. There is a set of ntfsprogs for linux that can resize, repair, and such NTFS, which even says that it is recomended to use the ntfs fsck in includes after unmounting NTFS r/w in linux, before using it with windows again. I guess that is some indicatio of how reliable the Linux NTFS write access is considered to be. I stick to the FAT32 data sharing partition, I won't try writing to NTFS from Linux, except in cases of trying to repair a broken windows install. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:40:42 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:40:42 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040908154042.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 10:38:29AM -0300, Tim Goodaire wrote: > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. Maybe one of these years I will get around to attending one. > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > connection speeds? Customer service? I believe sympatico blocks port 25. I think rogers has their user IPs in most blackists for sending mail, so I guess that works about the same as blocking port 25. > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer gear. > Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. Well I use istop. I have never talked to the staff so I have no idea how knowledgeable they are, although their web site claims they support Linux (and maybe BSD too, I don't remember). Price is good ($30/month for up to 3Mbit), assuming you get your own modem. My personal service is pretty lousy, but what can you do when your phone line is a piece of junk in and old appartment building. For my parents the service is quite good, with most problems caused by a crashing linksys router and occationally by the speedstream 5260 modem crashing. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:16:31 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:16:31 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux Message-ID: <200409081116.31727.wildberger@cogeco.ca> I have XP and Linux (Mdk10) on my IBM ThinkPad. I can mount the XP drives on Linux and read the files. The XP is configured to share the files on the network. The /etc/fstab is set for the XPdriveC as rw. Is there a way to write files from Linux to XP ? From all the experimenting I did so far I concluded that it cannot be done. Am I wrong?? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:22:59 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:22:59 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409081116.31727.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409081116.31727.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20040908152305.93D3D6D9F4@lethe.ss.org> It all depends on the filesystem that your XP install uses. Most likely, it uses NTFS. If it does, write-support isn't enabled from Linux. From what I remember, you must either compile write support in via a kernel module, or some external tools. Write support used to be a somewhat dangerous task, this may have changed since I last used it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John Wildberger Sent: September 8, 2004 11:17 AM To: TLUG Subject: [TLUG]: XP and Linux I have XP and Linux (Mdk10) on my IBM ThinkPad. I can mount the XP drives on Linux and read the files. The XP is configured to share the files on the network. The /etc/fstab is set for the XPdriveC as rw. Is there a way to write files from Linux to XP ? From all the experimenting I did so far I concluded that it cannot be done. Am I wrong?? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:55:12 2004 From: littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (littleguru) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 11:55:12 -0400 Subject: cheap wireless router In-Reply-To: <20040908094713.9C4D96D6B3-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908094713.9C4D96D6B3@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <413F2B60.8020207@sympatico.ca> ok , I got it , here is the router that bell offer for a high speed user and it supports 802.11b and 802.11g http://www.efficient.com/subscriber_networks/6300.shtml thanks Sidney Shapiro wrote: >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of littleguru >>Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 2004 5:31 AM >>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: cheap wireless router >> >>would you please let me know what is B/G router . >>I am using wireless Router which I have bought from bell . >>its about $68 , as I remember . >>the brand is efficiant network, just let me know what do you mean by B/G ? >>Border router / Gateway router ? >> >> >> > >802.11b = 11Mb/sec. Network "Speed" (Carrier transmission 2.4GHz) >802.11g = 54Mb/sec. Network "Speed" (Carrier transmission 2.4GHz) > >See http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Hardware.html for more info > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:28:44 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 11:28:44 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409081116.31727.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409081116.31727.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <413F252C.50904@canada.com> Linux does write on NTFS drives but it is not activated by default. You have to recompile a kernel and specify that you want to write on NTFS. Be careful, it is clearly indicated that it is not recommended. I do not know neither why nor whether it is really unstable (I have never tried this option). However, if you really want to exchange some data between the 2 OSes and want to play safe, there is an easy solution: create a FAT drive. I did it and it works flawlessly. Gilles John Wildberger wrote: >I have XP and Linux (Mdk10) on my IBM ThinkPad. I can mount the XP drives on >Linux and read the files. The XP is configured to share the files on the >network. The /etc/fstab is set for the XPdriveC as rw. >Is there a way to write files from Linux to XP ? From all the experimenting I >did so far I concluded that it cannot be done. Am I wrong?? >John >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:56:28 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 11:56:28 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <413F2BAC.60208@rogers.com> Tim Goodaire wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > connection speeds? Customer service? > > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer gear. > Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. > > Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! I'm on Rogers and get a good, fast connection. There are quite a few stores in Toronto, that sell new & used gear. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 16:56:55 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:56:55 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040908154042.GV8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908154042.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040908165655.GA17678@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 11:40:42AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 10:38:29AM -0300, Tim Goodaire wrote: > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like > > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All > > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > > connection speeds? Customer service? > > I believe sympatico blocks port 25. I think rogers has their user IPs > in most blackists for sending mail, so I guess that works about the same > as blocking port 25. Sympatico started blocking *incoming* smtp just over a year ago, which is when I moved to eol.ca. They have blocked smtp coming out of customer systems for many years. (Relaying outgoing email through their server wasn't too much of a hardship and even offloaded the queue and retry if the destination was temporarily unaccessible, but blocking incoming smtp meant that you can't run your own domain using a dynamic DNS service to keep your IP address current and I have never had any use for my ISP-provided email address except for receiving their service info.) Service from eol.ca has been fine, but I've only once had any reason to call them in the past year so I don't have a large history of interaction to rate them on (which is, of course, a *good* thing). Like istop, they do not insist on you running Windows before their service people will talk to you. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 16:02:59 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:02:59 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20409080730cf66989-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908141640.9CCAD6D9E7@lethe.ss.org> <4386c5b20409080730cf66989@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413F2D33.3010301@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 10:16:36 -0400, Michael Laccetti > wrote: > >>I currently have Rogers 'Extreme' cable, which is a 5mbit/800k package. >>Runs $44.95/mo. I have to admit, it's pretty damn spanky. Haven't had any >>problems, and I run a whole bunch of things behind it (web/e-mail/db/...). > > > I'm on Rogers too, but I don't know which "edition" I'm on, since they > recently started offering "extreme" and "express" versions of the > service. Funny thing is, they both cost $44.95/month, bu extreme > offers 5 Mb, while express is 3 Mb (same as istop, it seems). Any way > for me to tell which version I'm on? If you bought your own modem, you're on extreme and get the greater bandwidth. > > I really like the look of istop, because of their static IP. But > again, because it's DSL, I don't know what kind of service to expect, > because it depends on distance to the central Bell station, right? Any > thoughts on that? On Rogers, the IPs are virtually static and the host name is always consistent, so even if your IP changes, you can still find it via DNS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 16:08:36 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 12:08:36 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409081116.31727.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409081116.31727.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <413F2E84.9090204@rogers.com> John Wildberger wrote: > I have XP and Linux (Mdk10) on my IBM ThinkPad. I can mount the XP drives on > Linux and read the files. The XP is configured to share the files on the > network. The /etc/fstab is set for the XPdriveC as rw. > Is there a way to write files from Linux to XP ? From all the experimenting I > did so far I concluded that it cannot be done. Am I wrong?? > John > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Linux NTFS write is "experimental" i.e. flakey. What you can do, is create a FAT32 partion and move your "My Documents" folder to it. This way, both sides can share the data. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 15:44:36 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 11:44:36 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409081116.31727.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409081116.31727.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200409081144.36139.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On September 8, 2004 11:16 am, John Wildberger wrote: > I have XP and Linux (Mdk10) on my IBM ThinkPad. I can mount the XP drives > on Linux and read the files. The XP is configured to share the files on the > network. The /etc/fstab is set for the XPdriveC as rw. > Is there a way to write files from Linux to XP ? From all the experimenting > I did so far I concluded that it cannot be done. Am I wrong?? > John from the kernel help for version 2.4.27-gentoo-r1: --- This enables the partial, but safe, write support in the NTFS driver. The only supported operation is overwriting existing files, without changing the file length. No file or directory creation, deletion or renaming is possible. Note only non-resident files can be written to so you may find that some very small files (<500 bytes or so) cannot be written to. While we cannot guarantee that it will not damage any data, we have so far not received a single report where the driver would have damaged someones data so we assume it is perfectly safe to use. Note: While write support is safe in this version (a rewrite from scratch of the NTFS support), it should be noted that the old NTFS write support, is not safe. This is currently useful with TopologiLinux. TopologiLinux is run on top of any DOS/Microsoft Windows system without partitioning your hard disk. Unlike other Linux distributions TopologiLinux does not need its own partition. For more information see It is perfectly safe to say N here. --- now note that this is version 2.4.27-gentoo-r1, i distinctly remember dire warnings resembling "use this only if you want to corrupt your data" for previous incarnations of the kernel, so use at your own risk. as an alternative, a fat partition works for many. i use a separate fileserver that runs samba, nfs, and netatalk so windows, linux, and mac boxes can all get at the same files. it just depends on your network. -- there is a time, when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part; and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus and you've got to make it stop. and you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all. - mario savio -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 17:17:07 2004 From: Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org (Lance Nichols) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:17:07 -0400 Subject: (OT) VoIP In-Reply-To: <20040908022009.838926D86A-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908022009.838926D86A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <200409081317.12572.Ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> Frank, I am running a VoIP gateway from Primus, assigned with a Edmonton phone number to help keep in touch with friends and family back in Edmonton. Works pretty good with my Rogers Cable connection and it is behind my Linksys router, just try to avoid too many other bandwidth eating things at the same time, such as VNCing to a dying computer owned by family while talking to them.... Disadvantages include: you can't use modems on VoIP, so if you have to remote to any systems via analog modem, keep an analog line. If you have a security alarm that is monitored remotely that will not work either, so you require a analog line for that as well. That being said, I think Primus offers couple of good deals on DSL and VoIP if both are available in your area. If you want to drop analog completely, there might be savings by bundling DSL and VoIP from a provider. Lance Nichols Markham On Tuesday 07 September 2004 22:20, Erebus wrote: > Just a quick question for my fellow TLUGers: > > Has anyone switched over to VoIP yet? If so, how well does it work? I've > been reading up on it and the costs (and their lowness) intrigue me, but > don't want to switch if the quality will drive the Mrs insane. > > Thanks > > Frank in Mississauga > J F M > jfrankmccarron-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Zo?: Shepard, isn't the Bible kind of specific about killing? Book: Very specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzy around the area of kneecaps. ????????-Firefly, "War Stories" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From msh7-U2XT7ciQrQL3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 17:24:04 2004 From: msh7-U2XT7ciQrQL3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Hong) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:24:04 -0400 Subject: firewire card Message-ID: <20040908172404.GA2610@bach.mushy.xyz> Hi, I'm looking to buy a pci firewire card. Has anyone used this one listed at Canada Computers, http://www.canadacomputers.com/io.html : BT FireWire IEEE 1394A Card w/ software and cable (SD-FW) $28 It's about half the price of an Adaptec card but I can't find any information on it at http://www.linux1394.org/ or anywhere. Does anyone have this card, know what chipset is on it, or know if it will work with linux? Thank you, Michael -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 17:46:29 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 13:46:29 -0400 Subject: (OT) VoIP In-Reply-To: <200409081317.12572.Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908022009.838926D86A@lethe.ss.org> <200409081317.12572.Ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> Message-ID: <413F4575.7070406@rogers.com> Rogers is also planning on offering VoIP. Lance Nichols wrote: > Frank, I am running a VoIP gateway from Primus, assigned with a Edmonton phone > number to help keep in touch with friends and family back in Edmonton. Works > pretty good with my Rogers Cable connection and it is behind my Linksys > router, just try to avoid too many other bandwidth eating things at the same > time, such as VNCing to a dying computer owned by family while talking to > them.... > > Disadvantages include: you can't use modems on VoIP, so if you have to remote > to any systems via analog modem, keep an analog line. If you have a security > alarm that is monitored remotely that will not work either, so you require a > analog line for that as well. > > That being said, I think Primus offers couple of good deals on DSL and VoIP if > both are available in your area. If you want to drop analog completely, there > might be savings by bundling DSL and VoIP from a provider. > > Lance Nichols > Markham > > On Tuesday 07 September 2004 22:20, Erebus wrote: > >>Just a quick question for my fellow TLUGers: >> >>Has anyone switched over to VoIP yet? If so, how well does it work? I've >>been reading up on it and the costs (and their lowness) intrigue me, but >>don't want to switch if the quality will drive the Mrs insane. >> >>Thanks >> >>Frank in Mississauga >>J F M >>jfrankmccarron-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >> >>--- >>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >>Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004 >> >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 17:32:22 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:32:22 -0400 Subject: firewire card In-Reply-To: <20040908172404.GA2610-+bTYCzi3NQu377+mSgj3YA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908172404.GA2610@bach.mushy.xyz> Message-ID: <20040908173222.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 01:24:04PM -0400, Michael Hong wrote: > I'm looking to buy a pci firewire card. Has anyone used this one > listed at Canada Computers, http://www.canadacomputers.com/io.html : > > BT FireWire IEEE 1394A Card w/ software and cable (SD-FW) $28 > > It's about half the price of an Adaptec card but I can't find any > information on it at http://www.linux1394.org/ or anywhere. Does > anyone have this card, know what chipset is on it, or know if it will > work with linux? I don't know that one, but almost all firewire chips are OHCI1394 compliant as far as I know. So it is likely to work, but if possible go check the chipset first. I have considered getting a firewire card, but think I will just go get a new motherboard with dual channel ram and usb2.0 and firewire and sata for about $120 instead. I will need new ram of course, but I can also upgrade the cpu as well then. I am thinking the athlon 64s are starting to look cheap enough to buy (socket 754 3400+ is decent). This of course adds up to probably $800 in upgrades, which is why I haven't done it yet, and which is why I don't have firewire yet. Every upgrade is just a little more than the one you were looking at and then you want just one more thing, etc... :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 18:21:13 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:21:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040908181717.GB1526-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 10:38:29AM -0300, Tim Goodaire wrote: > Top 2 recommendable ISPs are > - eol.ca -- dialup, DSL EOL is actually Primus; they were bought over a year ago. -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 17:32:14 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 13:32:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: (OT) VoIP In-Reply-To: <200409081317.12572.Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908022009.838926D86A@lethe.ss.org> <200409081317.12572.Ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> Message-ID: Primus US has the best deal; US$20/mth for unlimited north-america and western europe calling. www.lingo.com I'm planning to try out the service myself. I know they probably won't ship to Canada, so I'll just use my Ogdensburg, NY address. For you Toronto folks, I guess Niagara Falls, NY would be the closest. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Lance Nichols wrote: > Frank, I am running a VoIP gateway from Primus, assigned with a Edmonton phone > number to help keep in touch with friends and family back in Edmonton. Works > pretty good with my Rogers Cable connection and it is behind my Linksys > router, just try to avoid too many other bandwidth eating things at the same > time, such as VNCing to a dying computer owned by family while talking to > them.... > > Disadvantages include: you can't use modems on VoIP, so if you have to remote > to any systems via analog modem, keep an analog line. If you have a security > alarm that is monitored remotely that will not work either, so you require a > analog line for that as well. > > That being said, I think Primus offers couple of good deals on DSL and VoIP if > both are available in your area. If you want to drop analog completely, there > might be savings by bundling DSL and VoIP from a provider. > > Lance Nichols > Markham > > On Tuesday 07 September 2004 22:20, Erebus wrote: > > Just a quick question for my fellow TLUGers: > > > > Has anyone switched over to VoIP yet? If so, how well does it work? I've > > been reading up on it and the costs (and their lowness) intrigue me, but > > don't want to switch if the quality will drive the Mrs insane. > > > > Thanks > > > > Frank in Mississauga > > J F M > > jfrankmccarron-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004 > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > Zo?: Shepard, isn't the Bible kind of specific about killing? > Book: Very specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzy around the area of > kneecaps. > ????????-Firefly, "War Stories" > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 18:17:17 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:17:17 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 10:38:29AM -0300, Tim Goodaire wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would > like to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? > All of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're > a geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > connection speeds? Customer service? Top 2 recommendable ISPs are - eol.ca -- dialup, DSL - istop.com -- dialup, DSL (the owner is a member of this list) They don't care what you run, and don't block any outgoing/incoming ports (as far as I'm aware). Eol.ca is older than Istop.com. I rarely speak to tech support, so can't really rate them. :-) > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer > gear. Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. Used stuffs... you know that it's crap shoot, unless you know the seller and his habits. For retail stores, - www.pccanada.com (West end) - www.infonec.com (East end, outside of Toronto but in GTA) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 18:58:49 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 14:58:49 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <20040908183551.GA1655-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> Not because of my laziness - rather because I need a quick result. There are a few companies on the market that dominate when it comes to issuing SSL certificates for web servers. The best known example is Verisign (with strong ties to Microsoft). In Canada, there is http://www.soltrus.com - partially owned by Verisign. AFAIK Verisign prefers if that sort of business for Canadian companies is done rather through Soltrus, not through them. If anybody would like to elaborate on this: where to buy SSL certificates? Where is it cheapest? Which are "best" from the point of view of usual web users? What I need is a certificate with which Canadian banks will have no problem as well. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 18:35:51 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:35:51 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 02:21:13PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, William Park wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 10:38:29AM -0300, Tim Goodaire wrote: > > Top 2 recommendable ISPs are > > - eol.ca -- dialup, DSL > > EOL is actually Primus; they were bought over a year ago. Oh, maybe that's why they moved to new location. Now, it seems they no longer accept customers in their office, which I found rather curious. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 18:14:18 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:14:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040908181418.17569.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Tim Goodaire wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be > moving there from > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be > attending TLUG > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. Congratulations on coming to the centre of the (Canadian) universe. Though it should be noted that last I heard there were some 300 people on the mailing list, but a good meeting turnout will be on the order of 50 or so people, thus you may not get chance to meet us all (me? I'm at almost all the meetings so you will likely see me...). [snip] > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and > used computer gear. > Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and > good prices. Besides the shops on College Street west of Spadina which others have (properly) praised, Above All on Bloor Street and Active Surplus on Queen Street there are a few other shops I would suggest. - There is a cluster of shops on Victoria Park just south of Steeles Avenue that I would recommend, places like Sayal, Active Components and others are all within a 10 minute walk of each other. These places are great on individual parts, (like capacitors, ICs, resistors, etc.), and weak on complete systems. Still, if you like the smell of soldering flux this is a must know about cluster of stores. - Not as good for individual parts, but much handier if your in the downtown is Supertronix, just a few doors away Active Surplus on Queen Street. - I have mixed feelings (in part because they are a former employer) about MDG with several locations around Toronto. If you know your PCs, are willing to ask questions, you CAN get a GREAT deal from these people on bare bones, basic PCs. If you don't know what your doing, then stay away from these people. > Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! - Well, if your also into Science Fiction then Bakka Books on Yonge Street is a must know location (Canada's oldest SF bookstore). - Also in the science fiction area you should be aware of the Merril Collection on College Street (not far from the University of Toronto where TLUG meets and the computer shops), one of the world's largest publicly owned SF/Fantasy book collections. - Also there is the Unix Unanimous group that meets the 2nd Wednesday of every month (read tonight), info on their meetings can be seen at http://www.unixunanimous.org/ . The Unix Unanimous crowd tends to be more server oriented plus they deal with Solaris, FreeBSD, etc in addition to Linux. There is only limited overlap between the the people at UU and TLUG (I am one of the few that often does both meetings), still I think they are good.... Stuff that isn't normally noted about TLUG is that there is normally a group of TLUG people that have diner together before the meeting, normally at Pho Hung (a Vietnamese style place) on Spadina Ave., then after the meetings many of the people at the meetings will go out to a pub at the University of Toronto's Graduate Student Union building. As for Unix Unanimous after the meetings they go out to Real Thailand (a Thai style place) on Bloor Street. The UU crowd keeps going back to the same street address after the meetings, so in the 10 years or so that I have been (on and off) attending UU meetings that one address has gone from a Greek to a Family to now a Thai restaurant... This fixed diner place means that on occasion there have been more people show at the restaurant than attended the meeting proper... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 19:21:56 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:21:56 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040908181418.17569.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181418.17569.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 14:14:18 -0400 (EDT), Colin McGregor wrote: > - Also there is the Unix Unanimous group that meets > the 2nd Wednesday of every month (read tonight), info > on their meetings can be seen at > http://www.unixunanimous.org/ . The Unix Unanimous Not to be outdone, there is also GTABUG which meets on the third Tuesday of every month (IIRC) over pizza. http://www.gtabug.ca Specifically: http://www.gtabug.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=36&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0 -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 19:39:04 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 15:39:04 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040908141640.9CCAD6D9E7-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040908141640.9CCAD6D9E7@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <413F5FD8.30906@deeptown.org> I would recommend the third computer store in this area, who has definitely better prices than Sonnam, and for some positions better prices than Canada Computers. It's Filtech Computers. They are located ~50 meters south of College by Spadina, if you will go from south-east corner. Their web-site is http://www.filtechcomputer.com All the Best! Sergey. Michael Laccetti wrote: >I currently have Rogers 'Extreme' cable, which is a 5mbit/800k package. >Runs $44.95/mo. I have to admit, it's pretty damn spanky. Haven't had any >problems, and I run a whole bunch of things behind it (web/e-mail/db/...). > >New computer gear, Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com) is good, and >so is Sonnam (www.sonnam.com). Not always the best staff, but they are >cheap, and carry most of the newest stuff, and even some arcane stuff (read: >server related). > >Mike > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Tim Goodaire >Sent: September 8, 2004 9:38 AM >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org >Subject: [TLUG]: Relocating to Toronto > >Hello everyone, > >I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from Halifax >around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG meetings, and look >forward to meeting you all. > >I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like to >know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks recommend. In >particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All of the ISPs here >in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a geek who wants to run >their own mailserver at home. What about connection speeds? Customer >service? > >Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer gear. >Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. > >Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! > >Thanks, > >Tim > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to >UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 19:39:35 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:39:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <413F5669.6060000-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> Message-ID: Check out Comodo (www.enterprisessl.com). If you look at the signing authority for the cert on https://secure.istop.com you'll see that's who we use. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Not because of my laziness - rather because I need a quick result. > > There are a few companies on the market that dominate when it comes to > issuing SSL certificates for web servers. The best known example is > Verisign (with strong ties to Microsoft). > > In Canada, there is http://www.soltrus.com - partially owned by > Verisign. AFAIK Verisign prefers if that sort of business for Canadian > companies is done rather through Soltrus, not through them. > > If anybody would like to elaborate on this: where to buy SSL > certificates? Where is it cheapest? Which are "best" from the point of > view of usual web users? What I need is a certificate with which > Canadian banks will have no problem as well. > > zb. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 19:43:35 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:43:35 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <413F5669.6060000-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> Message-ID: <200409081543.35239.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 8, 2004 02:58 pm, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > In Canada, there is http://www.soltrus.com - partially owned by > Verisign. AFAIK Verisign prefers if that sort of business for Canadian > companies is done rather through Soltrus, not through them. Wow, Verisign really owns the marget. We use Thawte and have for a few years, Thawte is also owned by Verisign. The advantage of Thawte over all the guys you're mentioning is price ... 199 USD for a 1 year 128bit cert IIRC. I just looked at Soltrus and saw a price of $1199 (perhaps CDN?, see http://www.soltrus.com/english/products/gsid.html). Thawte also cuts you a break at renewal time, I think it's 179 USD for renewals. > If anybody would like to elaborate on this: where to buy SSL > certificates? Where is it cheapest? Which are "best" from the point of > view of usual web users? What I need is a certificate with which > Canadian banks will have no problem as well. As long as common browsers (read vast majority) support the certificate authority then there should be no difference from a user's perspective. Tucows sells GeoTrust certificates (hopefully not Verisign owned) but they appear to be slightly more expensive than Thawte, on the plus side Geotrust appears to still offer wildcards certs which is a big plus if you want to secure multiple names. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 19:48:46 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 15:48:46 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040908194936.56EEC6DA30@lethe.ss.org> Yeah, we go through them as well. If you don't need a commercial cert, try www.cacert.org. They're a pretty handy service. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Ralph Doncaster Sent: September 8, 2004 3:40 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: which SSL certificate for apache? Check out Comodo (www.enterprisessl.com). If you look at the signing authority for the cert on https://secure.istop.com you'll see that's who we use. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Not because of my laziness - rather because I need a quick result. > > There are a few companies on the market that dominate when it comes to > issuing SSL certificates for web servers. The best known example is > Verisign (with strong ties to Microsoft). > > In Canada, there is http://www.soltrus.com - partially owned by > Verisign. AFAIK Verisign prefers if that sort of business for Canadian > companies is done rather through Soltrus, not through them. > > If anybody would like to elaborate on this: where to buy SSL > certificates? Where is it cheapest? Which are "best" from the point of > view of usual web users? What I need is a certificate with which > Canadian banks will have no problem as well. > > zb. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 19:53:01 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 15:53:01 -0400 Subject: (OT) VoIP In-Reply-To: References: <20040908022009.838926D86A@lethe.ss.org> <200409081317.12572.Ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> Message-ID: <413F631D.8090701@deeptown.org> Does they provide SIP or H.323 termination? All the Best! Sergey. Ralph Doncaster wrote: >Primus US has the best deal; US$20/mth for unlimited north-america and >western europe calling. www.lingo.com >I'm planning to try out the service myself. I know they probably won't >ship to Canada, so I'll just use my Ogdensburg, NY address. For you >Toronto folks, I guess Niagara Falls, NY would be the closest. > >Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president >6042147 Canada Inc. > >On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Lance Nichols wrote: > > > >>Frank, I am running a VoIP gateway from Primus, assigned with a Edmonton phone >>number to help keep in touch with friends and family back in Edmonton. Works >>pretty good with my Rogers Cable connection and it is behind my Linksys >>router, just try to avoid too many other bandwidth eating things at the same >>time, such as VNCing to a dying computer owned by family while talking to >>them.... >> >>Disadvantages include: you can't use modems on VoIP, so if you have to remote >>to any systems via analog modem, keep an analog line. If you have a security >>alarm that is monitored remotely that will not work either, so you require a >>analog line for that as well. >> >>That being said, I think Primus offers couple of good deals on DSL and VoIP if >>both are available in your area. If you want to drop analog completely, there >>might be savings by bundling DSL and VoIP from a provider. >> >>Lance Nichols >>Markham >> >>On Tuesday 07 September 2004 22:20, Erebus wrote: >> >> >>>Just a quick question for my fellow TLUGers: >>> >>>Has anyone switched over to VoIP yet? If so, how well does it work? I've >>>been reading up on it and the costs (and their lowness) intrigue me, but >>>don't want to switch if the quality will drive the Mrs insane. >>> >>>Thanks >>> >>>Frank in Mississauga >>>J F M >>>jfrankmccarron-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org >>> >>>--- >>>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >>>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >>>Version: 6.0.754 / Virus Database: 504 - Release Date: 9/6/2004 >>> >>> >>>-- >>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >>> >>> >>-- >>Zo?: Shepard, isn't the Bible kind of specific about killing? >>Book: Very specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzy around the area of >>kneecaps. >>????????-Firefly, "War Stories" >> >> >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 16:55:36 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 12:55:36 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040908125536.17c43bca@pingu.opus> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:38:29 -0300 Tim Goodaire wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would > like to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? > All of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're > a geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > connection speeds? Customer service? > > Also, I'm looking for a decent place to buy new and used computer > gear. Preferably, some place with knowlegable staff, and good prices. > > Any other geeky recommendations would be great too! > > Thanks, > > Tim Welcome to Toronto / GTA. For computers try here. I prefer, ICCT, Sonnam www.yesplay.com and www.pccanada.com http://www.torontopcstores.com/ For ISP try here. I use golden.net. Istop is good as well as Echo on-line. http://www.canadianisp.com/ HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 20:54:36 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:54:36 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413E92CC.5090503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040908165436.66c8cc1f.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 01:04:12 -0400 Byron L. Sonne disseminated the following: > When I can buy a single CPU that runs at 96 GHz, let me know. You could make your own: http://www.beowulf.org/ You just need a couple dozen boxes with decent CPU's, and yer on yer way! -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 16:52:38 up 35 days, 16:37, 12 users, load average: 1.15, 1.21, 1.22 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes, to blind you from the truth..." -- Morpheus, in The Matrix, describing Fox News -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 21:00:02 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:00:02 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions In-Reply-To: <1094654099.28641.16.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> <413DC55C.4030409@canada.com> <1094575545.6694.63.camel@192.168.1.80> <413F162B.2050101@canada.com> <1094654099.28641.16.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <413F72D2.9010301@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If you have a backup copy of your bookmarks.html file, just copy it into ~ your profile directory. (~/.firefox/// or ~/.phoenix/...). Or perhaps I missunderstood your situation... Devin Whalen wrote: | Thanks for the reply. I saw those two you mentioned. I am going to try | to use the Bookmark Backup thing. Luckily, I had a backup of my | bookmarks from 2 months ago so I didn't lose everything. The only thing | is, installing the extensions is what caused the problem in the first | place....but at least I know how to uninstall them from my preferences | if firefox won't start :). - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBP3LRRreNkzrRRLQRAr24AJ9X1+5P9S0maf1amgL4gdsZncNQPACggqAf Hg2FAR3rlzaCKY1sHOKw6n4= =q//I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 21:16:19 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:16:19 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions In-Reply-To: <413F72D2.9010301-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> <413DC55C.4030409@canada.com> <1094575545.6694.63.camel@192.168.1.80> <413F162B.2050101@canada.com> <1094654099.28641.16.camel@192.168.1.80> <413F72D2.9010301@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <1094678179.31077.536.camel@192.168.1.80> On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 17:00, Anton Markov wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > If you have a backup copy of your bookmarks.html file, just copy it into > ~ your profile directory. (~/.firefox/// or > ~/.phoenix/...). > > Or perhaps I missunderstood your situation... > Yeah, no, I did that. The problem was that it was a few months old :) (but the original problem was that a firefox extension made my browser unusable and I couldn't uninstall it.) As a side note, Gilles was talking about an extension that backs up your bookmarks every time you close down your browser that no longer seemed to exist...well I found it just in case anyone is interested. It seems the original site is down but if you go here: http://software.s48.xrea.com/mozilla/index.php?Bookmark%20Backup#content_1_3 Just click on the bookmarkbackup.xpi link and it will install. The site is not in English but it is pretty obvious what to click on :). Later > Devin Whalen wrote: > | Thanks for the reply. I saw those two you mentioned. I am going to try > | to use the Bookmark Backup thing. Luckily, I had a backup of my > | bookmarks from 2 months ago so I didn't lose everything. The only thing > | is, installing the extensions is what caused the problem in the first > | place....but at least I know how to uninstall them from my preferences > | if firefox won't start :). > > > - -- > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> > > GnuPG Key fingerprint = > 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 > > *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFBP3LRRreNkzrRRLQRAr24AJ9X1+5P9S0maf1amgL4gdsZncNQPACggqAf > Hg2FAR3rlzaCKY1sHOKw6n4= > =q//I > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 21:27:13 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:27:13 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040908165436.66c8cc1f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <20040908165436.66c8cc1f.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040908212713.GA2205@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 04:54:36PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 01:04:12 -0400 > Byron L. Sonne disseminated the following: > > > When I can buy a single CPU that runs at 96 GHz, let me know. > > You could make your own: > > http://www.beowulf.org/ > > You just need a couple dozen boxes with decent CPU's, and yer on yer way! Who's going to pay for the electrical power, heat/air conditioning, circuit re-wiring, etc. ? This is insane. The only people who ever talks about cluster is government entity or pre-IPO, neither of which is spending their own money. - You don't need cluster to do weather forecasting. Just go outside and stick your fucking tongue out. All weather computing can be done on a 486. - You don't need cluster for space program. - You don't need cluster for nuclear weapon research. Just get enriched Uranium or Plutonium, and use your dick to separate the 2 halves of critical mass. Here, size count. - You don't need cluster for number crunching. You already know \pi is irrational number, and never need more than 6 significant digits. Just get 2-GHz AMD64 this year, 4-GHz AMD64 next year, 8-GHz year after that. Nobody spending their own money ever talk about cluster. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 21:40:03 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:40:03 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040908212713.GA2205-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <20040908165436.66c8cc1f.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040908212713.GA2205@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040908174003.1ffbf3fe.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:27:13 -0400 William Park disseminated the following: > Nobody spending their own money ever talk about cluster. Nobody with sense of humour ever act like such a schmuck ;-) -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 17:39:12 up 35 days, 17:24, 12 users, load average: 1.53, 1.42, 1.27 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves." -- Howard Zinn -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 21:41:26 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 17:41:26 -0400 Subject: Firefox Extensions In-Reply-To: <1094678179.31077.536.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094566695.6694.4.camel@192.168.1.80> <413DC55C.4030409@canada.com> <1094575545.6694.63.camel@192.168.1.80> <413F162B.2050101@canada.com> <1094654099.28641.16.camel@192.168.1.80> <413F72D2.9010301@truxtar.com> <1094678179.31077.536.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <413F7C86.8080702@canada.com> Super. Thanks a lot Devin. Devin Whalen wrote: >On Wed, 2004-09-08 at 17:00, Anton Markov wrote: > > >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>Hash: SHA1 >> >>If you have a backup copy of your bookmarks.html file, just copy it into >>~ your profile directory. (~/.firefox/// or >>~/.phoenix/...). >> >>Or perhaps I missunderstood your situation... >> >> >> > >Yeah, no, I did that. The problem was that it was a few months old :) >(but the original problem was that a firefox extension made my browser >unusable and I couldn't uninstall it.) > >As a side note, Gilles was talking about an extension that backs up your >bookmarks every time you close down your browser that no longer seemed >to exist...well I found it just in case anyone is interested. It seems >the original site is down but if you go here: >http://software.s48.xrea.com/mozilla/index.php?Bookmark%20Backup#content_1_3 > >Just click on the bookmarkbackup.xpi link and it will install. The site >is not in English but it is pretty obvious what to click on :). > > >Later > > > > >>Devin Whalen wrote: >>| Thanks for the reply. I saw those two you mentioned. I am going to try >>| to use the Bookmark Backup thing. Luckily, I had a backup of my >>| bookmarks from 2 months ago so I didn't lose everything. The only thing >>| is, installing the extensions is what caused the problem in the first >>| place....but at least I know how to uninstall them from my preferences >>| if firefox won't start :). >> >> >>- -- >>Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> >> >>GnuPG Key fingerprint = >>5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 >> >>*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** >>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) >>Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >>iD8DBQFBP3LRRreNkzrRRLQRAr24AJ9X1+5P9S0maf1amgL4gdsZncNQPACggqAf >>Hg2FAR3rlzaCKY1sHOKw6n4= >>=q//I >>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 22:36:05 2004 From: littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (littleguru) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 18:36:05 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <200409081543.35239.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> <200409081543.35239.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <413F8955.4080404@sympatico.ca> You can check tucows also . www.tucows.com Fraser Campbell wrote: >On September 8, 2004 02:58 pm, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > > >>In Canada, there is http://www.soltrus.com - partially owned by >>Verisign. AFAIK Verisign prefers if that sort of business for Canadian >>companies is done rather through Soltrus, not through them. >> >> > >Wow, Verisign really owns the marget. We use Thawte and have for a few years, >Thawte is also owned by Verisign. The advantage of Thawte over all the guys >you're mentioning is price ... 199 USD for a 1 year 128bit cert IIRC. I just >looked at Soltrus and saw a price of $1199 (perhaps CDN?, see >http://www.soltrus.com/english/products/gsid.html). Thawte also cuts you a >break at renewal time, I think it's 179 USD for renewals. > > > >>If anybody would like to elaborate on this: where to buy SSL >>certificates? Where is it cheapest? Which are "best" from the point of >>view of usual web users? What I need is a certificate with which >>Canadian banks will have no problem as well. >> >> > >As long as common browsers (read vast majority) support the certificate >authority then there should be no difference from a user's perspective. > >Tucows sells GeoTrust certificates (hopefully not Verisign owned) but they >appear to be slightly more expensive than Thawte, on the plus side Geotrust >appears to still offer wildcards certs which is a big plus if you want to >secure multiple names. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 23:55:56 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 16:55:56 -0700 Subject: computer chair , as in seat Message-ID: Any suggests on an inexpensive , computer chair ? Currently , I am looking at purchasing Raynor Patriot Multifunction Task Chair as everything cheaper is listed as being for less than three hours a day at a computer , and thinking of buying from Office Depot as I have a 20$ coupon . Still 20$ ~ covers the tax on this 180$+tax chair . I use a kneeing chair myself , but this is for my mom . Thanks , Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 00:01:06 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:01:06 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413E92CC.5090503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> Message-ID: <413F9D42.1020501@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Byron L. Sonne wrote: |> No, it is _always_ all about bottlenecks. | | Feh; word play. | | Anyways, clearly I know nothing of what I talk about. Actually the problem seems to be that you have assumed that we know things you haven't talked about. You initially asked for hardware advice without describing the problem you're trying to address. You asked for the "Most Bang for the Buck", and in the general case that is definately not SMP. Faster memory and more of it, as Chris mentioned earlier, is usually the cheapest way to get some bang on a typical workstation. | Thankfully the | assorted math and cryptanalysis routines I run on occasion aren't as | dumb as I am. This is the first time in this thread that you've mentioned what you're trying to do with this hardware. You're still not providing anywhere enough detail for us to give you a detailed response. What kind of math are you doing? Does it involve manipulating large sets of data? Or really big numbers? Are you working with integers or floats? Are you dealing with matricies? What libraries are you using? Profiling your existing system using vmstat, as Ralph suggested earlier in the thread, and posting the results would provide at least something to work with. Explicit details about the kind of problems you're trying to solve will get you relevant answers. Vague, newbie questions about "nifty" stuff, such as an SMP box recently featured on Slashdot, will get you the kind of answers you've recieved so far in this thread. Smartass comments dirrected at people who are donating their often valuable time in an honest attempt to help you out will get you ignored. | When I can buy a single CPU that runs at 96 GHz, let me know. When the performance of 96 1GHz CPUs in an SMP box approaches that of a single 96 GHz CPU, let me know. I have to go with the ascerbic Mr. Park when he says "If you have to ask about SMP then you don't need it". And I'll go even further to say that you probably don't want it either since it's more expensive, more complicated and more noisy. If it's the case that you want SMP instead of needing it then that's clearly something different. If so, you should make it clear that you're looking for a cool toy to play with instead of a tool to solve a particular problem. Finally, you haven't said anything about budget, and none of this stuff is free. Those nice Celestica boxes come in at about $15k but I'll warn you, they're anything but quiet. :) - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBP51Bgfzn5SevSpoRAqWVAJ0QH0wxNwHM3TWsdNCmGlNBO/4mcwCgpIpu qkwcKiejXW58OTdzsiTLRWw= =RMyD -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 00:25:13 2004 From: littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (littleguru) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:25:13 -0400 Subject: computer chair , as in seat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <413FA2E9.1050005@sympatico.ca> I got executive chair from staple about $99+tax Lloyd D Budd wrote: > Any suggests on an inexpensive , computer chair ? > > Currently , I am looking at purchasing > Raynor Patriot Multifunction Task Chair > level=SK&id=363891&location_info=SG_2_CT_803_SC_803015_SK_363891> > as everything cheaper is listed as being for less than three hours > a day at a computer , and thinking of buying from Office Depot as > I have a 20$ coupon . Still 20$ ~ covers the tax on this 180$+tax > chair . I use a kneeing chair myself , but this is for my mom . > > Thanks , > Lloyd > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 8 20:29:59 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:29:59 +0200 Subject: konq opens at logon Message-ID: <413F6BC7.10701@onlink.net> I run knoppix 3.3. Every time I log on Konqueror opens and tries to load /cdrom/index.html. So, I get the following error: Error - Konqueror Unable to run command specified. The file or directory file: /cdrom/index.html does not exist. I checked the home URL and it is only ~. So, Konqueror is configured (or KDE is configured) to go looking for that file on logon. How can I get rid of this? i tried removing the ~ (tilde for home directory) anyway and, of course, it made no difference. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 02:42:55 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:42:55 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <413F5669.6060000-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> Message-ID: <413FC32F.90802@almatau.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Not because of my laziness - rather because I need a quick result. > > There are a few companies on the market that dominate when it comes to > issuing SSL certificates for web servers. The best known example is > Verisign (with strong ties to Microsoft). > > In Canada, there is http://www.soltrus.com - partially owned by > Verisign. AFAIK Verisign prefers if that sort of business for Canadian > companies is done rather through Soltrus, not through them. > > If anybody would like to elaborate on this: where to buy SSL > certificates? Where is it cheapest? Which are "best" from the point of > view of usual web users? What I need is a certificate with which > Canadian banks will have no problem as well. Check www.thawte.com They should be cheaper than Verisign. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 02:45:51 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:45:51 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040908165655.GA17678-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908154042.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040908165655.GA17678@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <413FC3DF.40808@almatau.com> John Macdonald wrote: ... > > Sympatico started blocking *incoming* smtp just over a year ago, > which is when I moved to eol.ca. They have blocked smtp coming > out of customer systems for many years. (Relaying outgoing > email through their server wasn't too much of a hardship and > even offloaded the queue and retry if the destination was > temporarily unaccessible, but blocking incoming smtp meant > that you can't run your own domain using a dynamic DNS service > to keep your IP address current and I have never had any use > for my ISP-provided email address except for receiving their > service info.) Actually, you can. It's what I'm doing. But you need smtp forwarding service, which is not free (I'm using easydns.com). It's useful in any case for dynamic IP users. ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 03:14:30 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:14:30 -0400 Subject: konq opens at logon In-Reply-To: <413F6BC7.10701-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <413F6BC7.10701@onlink.net> Message-ID: <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0@mail.gmail.com> Did you install Knoppix correctly? Sounds like you simply copied the CD files onto the harddrive. Under the Knoppix GUI environment, there's an application that allows you to create a Knoppix install on your hard drive. That version doesn't rely on the CD being installed, like the LiveCD version. Good luck! Aaron. On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 22:29:59 +0200, Chris Aitken wrote: > I run knoppix 3.3. > > Every time I log on Konqueror opens and tries to load /cdrom/index.html. > So, I get the following error: > > Error - Konqueror > Unable to run command specified. The file or directory file: > /cdrom/index.html does not exist. > > I checked the home URL and it is only ~. So, Konqueror is configured (or > KDE is configured) to go looking for that file on logon. How can I get > rid of this? i tried removing the ~ (tilde for home directory) anyway > and, of course, it made no difference. > > Chris > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 03:44:51 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:44:51 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? Message-ID: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> Hi there, I have a Compaq Deskpro (Celeron 500) running as my home server. I've lately been running it headless -- no monitor, no keyboard or mouse -- and shelling in to do any maintenance. Since it's been up for weeks, I haven't thought twice about it, till tonight when we had a power failure. That's when I realized that the box won't reboot unless it's got a keyboard plugged in. is there a way to disable that requirement, in the BIOS, for example? Thanks, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 03:56:00 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 23:56:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: > ...That's when I realized that the box won't reboot unless it's > got a keyboard plugged in. > is there a way to disable that requirement, in the BIOS, for example? Depends on the BIOS. Many BIOSes can be told to disregard the lack of a keyboard -- that's what usually gets them in a snit about this -- but some can't be. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 04:02:41 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:02:41 -0700 Subject: computer chair , as in seat In-Reply-To: <413FA2E9.1050005-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <413FA2E9.1050005@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <18ED014E-0215-11D9-A6AB-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 8-Sep-04, at 17:25, littleguru wrote: > I got executive chair from staple about $99+tax > > Lloyd D Budd wrote: > >> Any suggests on an inexpensive , computer chair ? I looked @ some executive chairs , but the ones in that , and my price range , do not seem to be recommended for extended computing (ie > 3 hrs) . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 04:19:49 2004 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ron Scott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 00:19:49 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413FD9E5.1040601@sympatico.ca> Hi: Just checked my Compaq Deskpro 500 Mhz and my Deskpro 733 Mhz and was surprised to find neither computer has a BIOS setting to set keyboard to be not present. Ron Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I have a Compaq Deskpro (Celeron 500) running as my home server. I've > lately been running it headless -- no monitor, no keyboard or mouse -- > and shelling in to do any maintenance. Since it's been up for weeks, I > haven't thought twice about it, till tonight when we had a power > failure. That's when I realized that the box won't reboot unless it's > got a keyboard plugged in. > > is there a way to disable that requirement, in the BIOS, for example? > > Thanks, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 05:24:40 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 01:24:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: Book wanted (Program Development in Java) In-Reply-To: <200409070003.31324.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200409070003.31324.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote: > I'm interested in buying the book "Program Development in Java: Abstraction, > Specification, and Object-Oriented Design.". It's published by Addison > Wesley, 2001. Author is Barbara Liskov. > Unfortunately it's $85.99 and I don't like the idea of buying it without being > able to browse the book first... Technical books a few years old can be hard to find on a retail shelf. Try the University of Toronto bookstore (College & St. George -- but they may be just a wee bit busy now since it's textbook time) or the World's Biggest Bookstore (just off Yonge a block above Dundas). The former is not as good as it used to be but it's still useful; the latter has a lot of junk but also a fair number of decent books. Alternatively, bear in mind that you can browse books in libraries. The U of T Engineering and Computer Science library is fairly well stocked, and although you need a university connection to borrow from it, anyone can come in and browse in the stacks. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 05:30:30 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 01:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > That's the normal Sept back-to-school slowdown. Traffic on much of the > North-American internet can double this time of the year. Or as we used to say on Usenet, every September there's another barbarian invasion... :-) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 05:37:34 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 01:37:34 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413F9D42.1020501-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <413F9D42.1020501@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <413FEC1E.2040502@rogers.com> > You asked for the "Most Bang for the Buck" When it came to dual SMP motherboards and CPUs! That's all... I wasn't asking for the underlying analysis that begat this whole question of mine to be criticized. Otherwise I would have said "Most bang for the buck; should I go SMP or not, and why?" That's the main damn reason I didn't volunteer any information. I figured if I did, people would tell me 'go run some stats program, check your configuration and report back your findings, you don't need SMP'. It would seem that perhaps there were thoughts where it was assumed I wanted SMP for some specious or idiotic reason of some kind, and it was someone's duty to talk me out of it. Either that or it was interepreted as an occasion for people to hop on the soapbox and show how smart they are. Both of which I hoped to avoid, but it seems found me anyways. This is not to say that there weren't useful or amusing replies! Lennart came across well as usual, and William Park's response was hilarious! (btw William, now you can say that someone spending their own money is talking about a cluster ;) Which brings me to a secondary and minor concern; I didn't particularly want people to know that I was investigating assembling a cluster. Strange things happen and strange people come out of the woodwork unbidden when cries of 'Cluster!' reverberate through the air... I'm not as cranky right now as I probably come across as, but I just got done dealing with some clown on another list and I'm kinda exasperated. Regards, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 04:17:26 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 06:17:26 +0200 Subject: konq opens at logon In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <413F6BC7.10701@onlink.net> <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413FD956.9090205@onlink.net> Aaron Vegh wrote: >Did you install Knoppix correctly? > Yes, I've been happily using the OS for the past few weeks on my production machine. > Sounds like you simply copied the >CD files onto the harddrive. > > No. >Under the Knoppix GUI environment, there's an application that allows >you to create a Knoppix install on your hard drive. That version >doesn't rely on the CD being installed, like the LiveCD version. > > Yeah, it's 'knoppix-installer' (was 'knx-hdinstall'). There must be a startup script that is still pointing to the help file on the CD even though I've installed the OS to hard disk. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 11:25:20 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 07:25:20 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040909112520.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 11:44:51PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I have a Compaq Deskpro (Celeron 500) running as my home server. I've > lately been running it headless -- no monitor, no keyboard or mouse -- > and shelling in to do any maintenance. Since it's been up for weeks, I > haven't thought twice about it, till tonight when we had a power > failure. That's when I realized that the box won't reboot unless it's > got a keyboard plugged in. > > is there a way to disable that requirement, in the BIOS, for example? On many machines there is. Usually called 'stop on errors' (set to none), or keyboardless operation, or something like that. Some dumb desktop machines from some stupid name brand companies don't allow it though, and a few stupid servers have even not allowed it in the past. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 01:50:05 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2004 21:50:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908140707.GA25025@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200409081035.36985.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote: > >> Have you noticed a significant slowdown in the last week? I used to always >> get the speeds you mention from Debian mirror sites but lately it's been >> 125KB/s and sometimes much worse. > > That's the normal Sept back-to-school slowdown. Traffic on much of the > North-American internet can double this time of the year. Nice answer! ;-) Is there a study or a website about such correlations that you would like to share on the list ? thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 12:56:25 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 08:56:25 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <413FC32F.90802-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> <413FC32F.90802@almatau.com> Message-ID: <414052F9.2070305@detachednetworks.ca> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> Not because of my laziness - rather because I need a quick result. >> >> There are a few companies on the market that dominate when it comes >> to issuing SSL certificates for web servers. The best known example >> is Verisign (with strong ties to Microsoft). >> >> In Canada, there is http://www.soltrus.com - partially owned by >> Verisign. AFAIK Verisign prefers if that sort of business for >> Canadian companies is done rather through Soltrus, not through them. >> >> If anybody would like to elaborate on this: where to buy SSL >> certificates? Where is it cheapest? Which are "best" from the point >> of view of usual web users? What I need is a certificate with which >> Canadian banks will have no problem as well. > > > Check www.thawte.com They should be cheaper than Verisign. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml www.godaddy.com $29.95 USD https://www.godaddy.com/gdshop/ssl/ssl.asp?isc=&se=%2B&from%5Fapp=&rhl=nv%5Fweb%5Fcerts%5F%2Fdefault -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 13:00:00 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 09:00:00 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <414052F9.2070305-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> <413FC32F.90802@almatau.com> <414052F9.2070305@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b204090906006cb12f2e@mail.gmail.com> > www.godaddy.com > > $29.95 USD woah.Can anyone confirm the compatibility of this cert? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 13:40:57 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:40:57 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908140707.GA25025@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200409081035.36985.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <41405D69.8010903@rogers.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > >> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote: >> >>> Have you noticed a significant slowdown in the last week? I used to >>> always >>> get the speeds you mention from Debian mirror sites but lately it's been >>> 125KB/s and sometimes much worse. >> >> >> That's the normal Sept back-to-school slowdown. Traffic on much of the >> North-American internet can double this time of the year. > > > Nice answer! ;-) Is there a study or a website about such correlations > that you would like to share on the list ? I have often noticed a slowdown, around the time kids get home from school. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 13:51:47 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:51:47 -0400 Subject: OT: Book wanted (Program Development in Java) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41405FF3.2010203@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote: > >>I'm interested in buying the book "Program Development in Java: Abstraction, >>Specification, and Object-Oriented Design.". It's published by Addison >>Wesley, 2001. Author is Barbara Liskov. >>Unfortunately it's $85.99 and I don't like the idea of buying it without being >>able to browse the book first... > > > Technical books a few years old can be hard to find on a retail shelf. > Try the University of Toronto bookstore (College & St. George -- but they > may be just a wee bit busy now since it's textbook time) or the World's > Biggest Bookstore (just off Yonge a block above Dundas). The former is > not as good as it used to be but it's still useful; the latter has a lot > of junk but also a fair number of decent books. > > Alternatively, bear in mind that you can browse books in libraries. The > U of T Engineering and Computer Science library is fairly well stocked, > and although you need a university connection to borrow from it, anyone > can come in and browse in the stacks. Another possibility would be those book clearance stores, such as PC Maniac. I've bought books newer than that from them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 14:04:37 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:04:37 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <41405F2F.2070605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> <413FD9E5.1040601@sympatico.ca> <41405F2F.2070605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b2040909070449781cba@mail.gmail.com> I just got around to checking my Deskpro 500. No option! I guess the best option is to get a cheapo keyboard to plug into it. :-P Inelegant. On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:48:31 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Ron Scott wrote: > > Hi: > > > > Just checked my Compaq Deskpro 500 Mhz and my Deskpro 733 Mhz and was > > surprised to find neither computer has a BIOS setting to set keyboard to > > be not present. > > My ThinkPad doesn't have that setting either. ;-) > > Hovever, all my desktop systems do. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 14:11:03 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:11:03 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040908212713.GA2205-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <20040908165436.66c8cc1f.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040908212713.GA2205@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040909101103.09151b36.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 17:27:13 -0400 William Park disseminated the following: > - You don't need cluster to do weather forecasting. Just go outside > and stick your fucking tongue out. All weather computing can be > done on a 486. > > - You don't need cluster for space program. > > - You don't need cluster for nuclear weapon research. Just get > enriched Uranium or Plutonium, and use your dick to separate the 2 > halves of critical mass. Here, size count. Okay, I take back what I said. That's pretty f'n funny, William. I should read more carefully in the future, it seems you do have a sense of humour, and a pretty edgy one at that. Love it. I really wasn't suggesting he 'cluster', that was just 'kidding around', though nowhere near as funny as your response :-D -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 10:08:04 up 36 days, 9:53, 7 users, load average: 0.16, 0.05, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 14:19:14 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:19:14 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2040909070449781cba-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> <413FD9E5.1040601@sympatico.ca> <41405F2F.2070605@rogers.com> <4386c5b2040909070449781cba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41406662.7030001@rogers.com> Maybe it's a Compaq thing. My current desktops are an ASUS mom board white box, an IBM and a Dell. I've had other computers, as well, which I've used with my KVM, where I had that setting. I've come across other interesting "features" in Compaq gear. Aaron Vegh wrote: > I just got around to checking my Deskpro 500. No option! > > I guess the best option is to get a cheapo keyboard to plug into it. > :-P Inelegant. > > > On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:48:31 -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>Ron Scott wrote: >> >>>Hi: >>> >>>Just checked my Compaq Deskpro 500 Mhz and my Deskpro 733 Mhz and was >>>surprised to find neither computer has a BIOS setting to set keyboard to >>>be not present. >> >>My ThinkPad doesn't have that setting either. ;-) >> >>Hovever, all my desktop systems do. >> >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 14:22:24 2004 From: arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:22:24 -0400 Subject: OT: Book wanted (Program Development in Java) Message-ID: <20040909142224.LNPO954.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> "Music & Books" at Agincourt Mall, Kennedy & Sheppard in Scarborough, has a huge selection (the entire back-wall +) of computer books. The store only sells older publications and the prices are discounted well below the original retail listings. I've seen numerous Java books amongst many other topics. Might be worth a trip. > > From: Henry Spencer > Date: 2004/09/09 Thu AM 01:24:40 EST > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: OT: Book wanted (Program Development in Java) > > On Tue, 7 Sep 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > I'm interested in buying the book "Program Development in Java: Abstraction, > > Specification, and Object-Oriented Design.". It's published by Addison > > Wesley, 2001. Author is Barbara Liskov. > > Unfortunately it's $85.99 and I don't like the idea of buying it without being > > able to browse the book first... > > Technical books a few years old can be hard to find on a retail shelf. > Try the University of Toronto bookstore (College & St. George -- but they > may be just a wee bit busy now since it's textbook time) or the World's > Biggest Bookstore (just off Yonge a block above Dundas). The former is > not as good as it used to be but it's still useful; the latter has a lot > of junk but also a fair number of decent books. > > Alternatively, bear in mind that you can browse books in libraries. The > U of T Engineering and Computer Science library is fairly well stocked, > and although you need a university connection to borrow from it, anyone > can come in and browse in the stacks. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 13:48:31 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:48:31 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <413FD9E5.1040601-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> <413FD9E5.1040601@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41405F2F.2070605@rogers.com> Ron Scott wrote: > Hi: > > Just checked my Compaq Deskpro 500 Mhz and my Deskpro 733 Mhz and was > surprised to find neither computer has a BIOS setting to set keyboard to > be not present. My ThinkPad doesn't have that setting either. ;-) Hovever, all my desktop systems do. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 14:28:02 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:28:02 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413F9D42.1020501-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <413F9D42.1020501@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:01:06 -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Profiling your existing system using vmstat, as Ralph suggested earlier > in the thread, and posting the results would provide at least something > to work with. Someone mentioned early on regarding OLD SMP systems versus a NEW uniprocessor, which is of course entirely specious. Something that vmstat will NOT tell you (unless it does much more than meets the eye) is how much memory and cache latency are affecting your program's performance. My G4 800MHz (7451, PC-133, 64/256/1024k L1/2/3) PowerBook beat my friend's G4 867MHz (7455, PC-266, 64/256/0k L1/2/3) PowerBook by a good 5-10% on a neural nets homework assignment we had. I'm pretty sure that the entire program itself, and probably a good chunk of the dataset fit inside my L3 cache, leading directly to the lion's share of that bonus. Not that you have the choice in cache these days like you used to. But if you're doing cryptanalysis work with relatively small datasets and small codesize, I'd place bets on bigger caches which are able to entirely contain your work having a positive impact on speed. I also hear that the newer Pentium (Pentium4, at least) chips have moved away from doing bit operations in hardware, and instead perform them (at a cost) via microcode. That might be why my Pentium4-M 1.8GHz laptop gets is ass kicked by my Duron 1G when it comes to compiling. So, if you're looking for bang-for-buck for a very specific set of applications, I'd suggest that you find people or stores who are willing to let you run some test programs, and see exactly how well the hardware performs in the REAL world, with YOUR workload. BTW, I'll have to remember that one doesn't need a cluster to do nuclear weapons research. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 20:03:48 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: konq opens at logon In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <413F6BC7.10701@onlink.net> <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Did you install Knoppix correctly? Sounds like you simply copied the > CD files onto the harddrive. > > Under the Knoppix GUI environment, there's an application that allows > you to create a Knoppix install on your hard drive. That version > doesn't rely on the CD being installed, like the LiveCD version. That install did not alter the home page for me. It had o be done by hand in the konq properties afair (start page setting) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 14:44:03 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 10:44:03 -0400 Subject: Telling kudzu to ignore something Message-ID: <41406C33.8080801@alteeve.com> Hi all, The joys of having a laptop! I have Fedora Core 2 installed and recently I added a printer through my docking station and a wireless PCMCIA card. On boot kudzu kept wanting to remove the printer if the laptop wasn't docked and the wireless card because kudzu ran before the pcmcia services. For now I have simply disabled kudzu from running at boot which is fine but it started me wondering: is there a way to tell Kudzu to ignore specific missing hardware when it runs? Madison PS - I am sure I could have changed the start order and put kudzu after pcmcia but I was too lazy... :p -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 14:51:39 2004 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 10:51:39 -0400 Subject: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... Message-ID: <20040909145139.GA6755@antec> Any suggestions where I might find a fast/wide SCSI-2 disk? I'm looking to boost disk space on an old Sun Ultra-1 to have enough room to install a workable version of Linux (or maybe Solaris 9) -- the current drive is only 1G, and there must be a place to go for (say) a 4.9G old scsi disk. But I don't know where that is. Does anyone? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-3788 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 15:10:54 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:10:54 -0400 Subject: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... In-Reply-To: <20040909145139.GA6755@antec> References: <20040909145139.GA6755@antec> Message-ID: <4140727E.1090303@alteeve.com> I don't know what capacities they have but when I was in there last week Above All had some SCSI disks. I am pretty sure they were SCSI-2. Their number is 416-588-8119. Madison Peter King wrote: > Any suggestions where I might find a fast/wide SCSI-2 disk? I'm looking > to boost disk space on an old Sun Ultra-1 to have enough room to install > a workable version of Linux (or maybe Solaris 9) -- the current drive is > only 1G, and there must be a place to go for (say) a 4.9G old scsi disk. > > But I don't know where that is. Does anyone? > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 15:19:15 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:19:15 -0400 Subject: OT: Book wanted (Program Development in Java) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200409091119.16220.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 9, 2004 01:24 am, Henry Spencer wrote: > Technical books a few years old can be hard to find on a retail shelf. > Try the University of Toronto bookstore (College & St. George -- but they > may be just a wee bit busy now since it's textbook time) or the World's I tried a search on their online bookstore so I don't think they have it. > Alternatively, bear in mind that you can browse books in libraries. The > U of T Engineering and Computer Science library is fairly well stocked, > and although you need a university connection to borrow from it, anyone > can come in and browse in the stacks. Great idea, I'll keep it in mind next time. Thanks -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 15:23:51 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:23:51 -0400 Subject: OT: Book wanted (Program Development in Java) In-Reply-To: <20040909142224.LNPO954.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net-GWWKLdnxQps/MCZexUuWkuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909142224.LNPO954.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <200409091123.51227.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 9, 2004 10:22 am, arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote: > "Music & Books" at Agincourt Mall, Kennedy & Sheppard in Scarborough, has a > huge selection (the entire back-wall +) of computer books. The store only > sells older publications and the prices are discounted well below the > original retail listings. I've seen numerous Java books amongst many other > topics. Might be worth a trip. Cool, I will try and check them out tonight. I was surprised at the lack of discount book outlets when I was in the city on Monday, it used to be that you'd see one every block now they're few and far between. I did check out PC Maniac in Mississauga yesterday and called the Toronto store, no luck for me. PC Maniac doesn't get any books from Addison Wesley unfortunately but they have a good selection or O'Reilly, New Rider, McGraw Hill and others. I ordered the book that I'm after through Indigo, they have a decent return policy so if it turns out to be complete crap I won't have to keep it. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 15:48:26 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:48:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <20040909112520.GX8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909112520.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On many machines there is. Usually called 'stop on errors' (set to > none), or keyboardless operation, or something like that. Some dumb > desktop machines from some stupid name brand companies don't allow it > though, and a few stupid servers have even not allowed it in the past. If one is willing to spend money on dealing with such stupidity, there is (or was -- haven't kept current) at least one company that sells a little widget that plugs into a keyboard port and pretends to be a keyboard, precisely to convince stupid BIOSes that there really is one there. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 15:49:06 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:49:06 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040909154906.GA637@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Sep 08, 2004 at 11:44:51PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Hi there, > I have a Compaq Deskpro (Celeron 500) running as my home server. I've > lately been running it headless -- no monitor, no keyboard or mouse -- > and shelling in to do any maintenance. Since it's been up for weeks, I > haven't thought twice about it, till tonight when we had a power > failure. That's when I realized that the box won't reboot unless it's > got a keyboard plugged in. > > is there a way to disable that requirement, in the BIOS, for example? Retail motherboard usually has BIOS option to disregard any/all errors on boot. But, brand-name machines... depends on the makes. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 15:58:01 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 11:58:01 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909155807.CC93C6D8A9@lethe.ss.org> I have a few machines sitting in my office that I generally only shell/RDP/VNC to. Of course, the contractors have been randomly working on the house I live in, and the power outages were starting to drive me insane. Hated having to grab the keyboard and monitor cables, go digging behind the stacks to plug them in. I just invested in a KVM, and have been using that to take care of everything since then. ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Henry Spencer Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 10:48 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: running a server headless/keyboardless? On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On many machines there is. Usually called 'stop on errors' (set to > none), or keyboardless operation, or something like that. Some dumb > desktop machines from some stupid name brand companies don't allow it > though, and a few stupid servers have even not allowed it in the past. If one is willing to spend money on dealing with such stupidity, there is (or was -- haven't kept current) at least one company that sells a little widget that plugs into a keyboard port and pretends to be a keyboard, precisely to convince stupid BIOSes that there really is one there. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 15:59:15 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:59:15 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413FEC1E.2040502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <413F9D42.1020501@ca.afilias.info> <413FEC1E.2040502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41407DD3.6090506@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Byron L. Sonne wrote: | > You asked for the "Most Bang for the Buck" | | When it came to dual SMP motherboards and CPUs! That's all... I wasn't | asking for the underlying analysis that begat this whole question of | mine to be criticized. Otherwise I would have said "Most bang for the | buck; should I go SMP or not, and why?" That's the main damn reason I | didn't volunteer any information. I figured if I did, people would tell | me 'go run some stats program, check your configuration and report back | your findings, you don't need SMP'. Ok, now we're clear. Personally, I'd wait until AMD releases the dual core Opteron CPUs and see what the price on them is compared to single core. You might be able to do a dual core cpu on a single socket 940 mb for less than a two single cores on a dual socket 940 mb. And since there's only one chip to cool, you could probably do it quieter that way too. | It would seem that perhaps there were thoughts where it was assumed I | wanted SMP for some specious or idiotic reason of some kind, and it was | someone's duty to talk me out of it. Either that or it was interepreted | as an occasion for people to hop on the soapbox and show how smart they | are. On this list?! - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBQH3Rgfzn5SevSpoRAvywAJ487BRR5J/BcUA5KBXcfDwmqtvUngCfQA5D Em3BrxKOxIChaXu4yEjA5Yc= =rSy7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:03:38 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:03:38 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <413FEC1E.2040502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <413F9D42.1020501@ca.afilias.info> <413FEC1E.2040502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040909160338.GB637@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 01:37:34AM -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > This is not to say that there weren't useful or amusing replies! Lennart > came across well as usual, and William Park's response was hilarious! > (btw William, now you can say that someone spending their own money is > talking about a cluster ;) Which brings me to a secondary and minor > concern; I didn't particularly want people to know that I was > investigating assembling a cluster. Strange things happen and strange > people come out of the woodwork unbidden when cries of 'Cluster!' > reverberate through the air... I have 8-cpu dual-P3/600MHz cluster collecting dust, when I should be driving new car. So, what would you like to know? If you're experimenting, then use a spare computer (if not, get an used computer), use that and your current machine as 2 node experiment. If that goes well, then move forward. If not, no harm done. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:01:58 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:01:58 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04@lethe.ss.org> P4s rely on their raw speed to keep them competitive, because of their extremely long pipeline. The newer versions are at least 20 stages, perhaps even longer. AMD, and the P3s/Pentium Ms (not Pentium 4M) have a short pipeline. Of course, they can't scale to be as speedy. My Pentium M 1.7 competes quite well with my Pentium 4 2.8 in terms of compilation times, the only thing that holds it back is the DDR 333 vs. the DDR 480 (yay overclocking) in my workstation. That, and the laptop HD is quite a bit slower than the workstation. ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of The Edge of the Ice Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 9:28 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 20:01:06 -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Profiling your existing system using vmstat, as Ralph suggested earlier > in the thread, and posting the results would provide at least something > to work with. Someone mentioned early on regarding OLD SMP systems versus a NEW uniprocessor, which is of course entirely specious. Something that vmstat will NOT tell you (unless it does much more than meets the eye) is how much memory and cache latency are affecting your program's performance. My G4 800MHz (7451, PC-133, 64/256/1024k L1/2/3) PowerBook beat my friend's G4 867MHz (7455, PC-266, 64/256/0k L1/2/3) PowerBook by a good 5-10% on a neural nets homework assignment we had. I'm pretty sure that the entire program itself, and probably a good chunk of the dataset fit inside my L3 cache, leading directly to the lion's share of that bonus. Not that you have the choice in cache these days like you used to. But if you're doing cryptanalysis work with relatively small datasets and small codesize, I'd place bets on bigger caches which are able to entirely contain your work having a positive impact on speed. I also hear that the newer Pentium (Pentium4, at least) chips have moved away from doing bit operations in hardware, and instead perform them (at a cost) via microcode. That might be why my Pentium4-M 1.8GHz laptop gets is ass kicked by my Duron 1G when it comes to compiling. So, if you're looking for bang-for-buck for a very specific set of applications, I'd suggest that you find people or stores who are willing to let you run some test programs, and see exactly how well the hardware performs in the REAL world, with YOUR workload. BTW, I'll have to remember that one doesn't need a cluster to do nuclear weapons research. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:14:05 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:14:05 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:01:58 -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > P4s rely on their raw speed to keep them competitive, because of their > extremely long pipeline. The newer versions are at least 20 stages, perhaps > even longer. AMD, and the P3s/Pentium Ms (not Pentium 4M) have a short > pipeline. Of course, they can't scale to be as speedy. My Pentium M 1.7 What I mentioned has nothing to do with the length of the pipeline, and applies to specific opcodes which tend to be common in certain workloads (compilation and crypto both qualify for "lots of bit operations" afaik). > competes quite well with my Pentium 4 2.8 in terms of compilation times, the How does either compare to this, though? (I'm honestly ignorant of the Intel chip branching): cpu family : 15 model : 2 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Mobile CPU 1.80GHz (DDR266 RAM) As I said, this machine kicks its sorry ass for compilation speed last I checked (nonscientifically, granted): cpu family : 6 model : 7 model name : AMD Duron(tm) Processor (running at 1GHz, DDR266 RAM running at 200, due to the Duron's 100MHz FSB) > only thing that holds it back is the DDR 333 vs. the DDR 480 (yay > overclocking) in my workstation. That, and the laptop HD is quite a bit > slower than the workstation. That may well be true, but is mitigated by doing make -j2 or -j3. :) As it stands now, I'm caught between upgrading the CPU to an Athlon 2400+, or going all-out for a new mobo, AMD64, etc. Only "problem" is that I hear that PCI-Express is the next, greatest thing in PCs, and I haven't seen a single AMD-compatible motherboard with it. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:20:15 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:20:15 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection Message-ID: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> Hey, My motherboard just recently blew out (or whatever you want to call it). My computer just stopped working and when I looked at the motherboard there was this thick grey dust all over it (well centred around the cpu). Needless to say, I had to buy a new motherboard and in turn a new cpu,memory,power supply and hey why not a new case...so 400 and some dollars later and I have a working machine again. I was told that it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? Thanks. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 21:29:38 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 17:29:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2040909070449781cba-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> <413FD9E5.1040601@sympatico.ca> <41405F2F.2070605@rogers.com> <4386c5b2040909070449781cba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: > I just got around to checking my Deskpro 500. No option! > > I guess the best option is to get a cheapo keyboard to plug into it. > :-P Inelegant. There has to be a dongle that does this. Either that or flashing the bios with another version should do it. Me I have a gripe with boards that do not turn on when the power is first applied. You have to push the front panel switch. I built a timer to do that ;-( Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 23:33:15 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:33:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? Message-ID: Hi, where do I find the limits with which bash was compiled ? For older and newer bashes ? I believe that I am trying to do something that exceeds a hard compiled limit in bash and it fails in mysterious ways. Specifically I have variables that contain lists of thousands of numbers. Some of them seem to disappear ... So what is the maximum number of arguments that can be passed to a for ... construct, or their maximum length ? And what are the other limits ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:12:31 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:12:31 -0400 Subject: Telling kudzu to ignore something In-Reply-To: <41406C33.8080801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41406C33.8080801@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <414080EF.1020108@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > The joys of having a laptop! I have Fedora Core 2 installed and > recently I added a printer through my docking station and a wireless > PCMCIA card. On boot kudzu kept wanting to remove the printer if the > laptop wasn't docked and the wireless card because kudzu ran before the > pcmcia services. For now I have simply disabled kudzu from running at > boot which is fine but it started me wondering: is there a way to tell > Kudzu to ignore specific missing hardware when it runs? As I recall, you can tell it to permanently add or remove a device. If you do that, you'd want to create different profiles for when you're docked or not. Profiles can be selected on boot up. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:37:26 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:37:26 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094746815.15673.11.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:20:15 -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > My motherboard just recently blew out (or whatever you want to call My condolences. I was lucky when that happened to mine, as it only fried the second IDE channel and the CDROM at the other end of that cable (the burner in the middle of the cable was otherwise unaffected). It's the strangest burnout I've ever heard of. Anyway. > it). My computer just stopped working and when I looked at the > motherboard there was this thick grey dust all over it (well centred > around the cpu). Well that's what you get for putting a heatsink with fan on the CPU! ;) > that it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? Thanks. A UPS is probably your best bet as far as protection for a reasonable price goes. You can get a reasonable one for $120 or so, that should power the machine for a dozen minutes or so (longer if you don't include a monitor). That will protect against brownouts as well as surges, generally. If that sounds excessive considering your $400 computer, then you can just run without and buy another $400 computer if it happens again. ;) You probably don't need a high end solution, such as a line conditioner ($500 or more, but you get _really_ clean power out of it!). Be sure that you have a good power supply in any case. A good power supply will go a long way towards machine stability. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:38:35 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:38:35 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <41407DD3.6090506-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <413B6579.1010500@rogers.com> <20040905214246.1000545A1@cbbrowne.com> <413CD01F.8040502@rogers.com> <20040907021336.BE2E345A1@cbbrowne.com> <413E92CC.5090503@rogers.com> <413F9D42.1020501@ca.afilias.info> <413FEC1E.2040502@rogers.com> <41407DD3.6090506@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 11:59:15 -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Ok, now we're clear. Personally, I'd wait until AMD releases the dual > core Opteron CPUs and see what the price on them is compared to single > core. You might be able to do a dual core cpu on a single socket 940 mb > for less than a two single cores on a dual socket 940 mb. And since > there's only one chip to cool, you could probably do it quieter that way > too. Or, for even more BANG, get the dual socket motherboard anyway. :) Then if you decide you need two more cores, just plug away! -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:14:00 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... In-Reply-To: <20040909145139.GA6755@antec> References: <20040909145139.GA6755@antec> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter King wrote: > Any suggestions where I might find a fast/wide SCSI-2 disk? I'm looking > to boost disk space on an old Sun Ultra-1 to have enough room to install > a workable version of Linux (or maybe Solaris 9) -- the current drive is > only 1G, and there must be a place to go for (say) a 4.9G old scsi disk. Sonnam Computers (Spadina just above College) carried such things, last time I looked. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:49:24 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Hi, where do I find the limits with which bash was compiled ? For older and > newer bashes ? I believe that I am trying to do something that exceeds a hard > compiled limit in bash and it fails in mysterious ways. Specifically I have > variables that contain lists of thousands of numbers. Some of them seem to > disappear ... > > So what is the maximum number of arguments that can be passed to a for ... > construct, or their maximum length ? And what are the other limits ? Arguments to built-in commands (such as echo) and keywords (such as for) are limited only by available memory. The number of arguments that can be passed to external commands is system-dependent. $ echo {1..31111} > /dev/null $ /bin/echo {1..21111} > /dev/null $ /bin/echo {1..31111} > /dev/null bash: /bin/echo: Argument list too long $ -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:48:26 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:48:26 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: References: <20040909112520.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b2040909094813e6765e@mail.gmail.com> > If one is willing to spend money on dealing with such stupidity, there is > (or was -- haven't kept current) at least one company that sells a little > widget that plugs into a keyboard port and pretends to be a keyboard, > precisely to convince stupid BIOSes that there really is one there. > I found this: http://www.cadesigns.co.uk/dk1b.htm but at 72 pounds, it's a little insane. I can probably find a ps/2 keyboard for a little less... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:58:54 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:58:54 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux Message-ID: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Hi Stan, Here is my inquiry to TLUG: I have XP and Linux (Mdk10) on my IBM ThinkPad. I can mount the XP drives on Linux and read the files. The XP is configured to share the files on the network. The /etc/fstab is set for the XPdriveC as rw. Is there a way to write files from Linux to XP ? From all the experimenting I did so far I concluded that it cannot be done. Am I wrong?? John I got numerous replies, all telling me that the problem is not with the XP but with Linux. The kernel deliberately sets as default to make NTFS readonly. By recompiling the kernel with NTFS write enabled I can accomplish what I wanted. However, warnings abound that this is a very dangerous practice and unless I want to live dangerously I should avoid it. A better way would be to create a FAT32 partition as part of the XP operating system. Such a partition can be written to from Linux. I proceeded with this and got me into serious trouble. The first thing I did was to resize my main partition to free up one gig . Then I assigned a FAT32 to this newly created partition. It assigned the drive letter 'E' to it. My original setup had four primary partitions of which one was used as an extended partition for my various Linux parts. These parts were assigned to hda5,6,7, and 8. Because there can only be four primary partitions on a system it assigned my newly created FAT32 partition as a logical partition as part of the extended partition with the first assignment as hda5. This pushed all my Linux partions up one notch. Needless to say this nixed my Linux installation. To correct this I eliminated first the primary partition that was at the end of the disk and had only 8Mb of storage. This was just a leftover from the original factory install of XP. Next I converted the FAT32 locical partition to a primary partition. This automatically reassigned the original hda5 to 8 to my Linux system again and all was hunky dory. Now I have a drive E that can be mounted as /dev/hda4 and this permits me to send files to XP . I also made the appropriate addition to /etc/fstab. Pretty neat, don't you agree ??? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 16:42:12 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 12:42:12 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094746815.15673.11.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <414087E4.6080009@rogers.com> Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > My motherboard just recently blew out (or whatever you want to call > it). My computer just stopped working and when I looked at the > motherboard there was this thick grey dust all over it (well centred > around the cpu). Needless to say, I had to buy a new motherboard and in > turn a new cpu,memory,power supply and hey why not a new case...so 400 > and some dollars later and I have a working machine again. I was told > that it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? Thanks. You can get proper surge protectors, not those cheap power bars, with MOVs in them. However, don't be too hasty in your conclusions. You mentioned dust, which can cause the CPU to overheat, or it could have been something unrelated to the environment. Some components fail on their own. I recall a problem with capacitors blowing, a few years ago. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:20:32 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:20:32 -0400 Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909172032.GA1248@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 07:33:15PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Hi, where do I find the limits with which bash was compiled ? For older > and newer bashes ? I believe that I am trying to do something that exceeds > a hard compiled limit in bash and it fails in mysterious ways. > Specifically I have variables that contain lists of thousands of numbers. > Some of them seem to disappear ... > > So what is the maximum number of arguments that can be passed to a for ... > construct, or their maximum length ? And what are the other limits ? Bash has no limit on arrays, variables, builtins, any internal expansion or construct, etc. Post your suspect code. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 00:28:13 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:28:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > >> >> Hi, where do I find the limits with which bash was compiled ? For older >> and newer bashes ? I believe that I am trying to do something that exceeds >> a hard compiled limit in bash and it fails in mysterious ways. >> Specifically I have variables that contain lists of thousands of numbers. >> Some of them seem to disappear ... >> >> So what is the maximum number of arguments that can be passed to a for ... >> construct, or their maximum length ? And what are the other limits ? > > Arguments to built-in commands (such as echo) and keywords (such as > for) are limited only by available memory. > > The number of arguments that can be passed to external commands is > system-dependent. > > $ echo {1..31111} > /dev/null > $ /bin/echo {1..21111} > /dev/null > $ /bin/echo {1..31111} > /dev/null > bash: /bin/echo: Argument list too long > $ Thanks. Is the argument list too long, as in too many words, or too many bytes in it ? In my program I have a set of directories with files in them. This follows a naming structure represented as a regex like ./[0-9][0-9]/[0-9][0-9]/[0-9]{8} I read the names of all these files using 'ls .' or equivalent, prune certain things, and pass the output to a for ... construct. It works for low file counts (~100 test case) and fails for high file counts (~2000). The program outline is like: for f in `ls .|cut -d'/' -2`; do ... done I am not sure where it fails. I think that the argument list passed to for is too long but you seem to say that the argument list passed to for is not limited (it should be a temporary variable or the output of a pipe if I understand how bash works). thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 00:33:18 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:33:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409091258.54512.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: There would have been no need to move that new partition. To make linux happy with shifted partitions one boots from a rescue disk and edits the relevant scripts (usually /etc/fstab on the root volume) and the boot script (/etc/lilo.conf or equivalent). This makes linux aware of the new setup without needing to move anything. What would you have done if you had not had a tool that moves partitions around ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:29:57 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:29:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Thanks. Is the argument list too long, as in too many words, or too many > bytes in it ? It can be either, in fact, although "too many bytes" is much more likely. > ./[0-9][0-9]/[0-9][0-9]/[0-9]{8} > I read the names of all these files using 'ls .' or equivalent... Uh, "or equivalent"? What, exactly, is doing the name reading, and how? That is more likely to be the problem area than the shell. > I am not sure where it fails. I think that the argument list passed to for > is too long... "for" being a shell builtin, that basically shouldn't happen. I don't say it's impossible, but it seems far more likely that you're being misled and the problem is elsewhere. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:30:12 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:30:12 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040909173012.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:01:58PM -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > P4s rely on their raw speed to keep them competitive, because of their > extremely long pipeline. The newer versions are at least 20 stages, perhaps > even longer. AMD, and the P3s/Pentium Ms (not Pentium 4M) have a short > pipeline. Of course, they can't scale to be as speedy. My Pentium M 1.7 > competes quite well with my Pentium 4 2.8 in terms of compilation times, the > only thing that holds it back is the DDR 333 vs. the DDR 480 (yay > overclocking) in my workstation. That, and the laptop HD is quite a bit > slower than the workstation. Current "prescott" P4's have 31 stage. Previous generation was 20 stage. This may explain why same clock speed "prescott" chips have often been slower than the "northwood" chips, although having larger cache in general helped out in other cases. Very confusing and hard to generalize performance from I guess. Opteron/Athlon 64 currently runs 12 stage pipeline as far as I know. I know which one I want. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:22:15 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:22:15 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909172220.E020C6DA4A@lethe.ss.org> I can't really comment on the opcodes in the processor, since that's a tad above me. (Yes, I did just admit that. Whoops.) I'd have to sit down and do some research instead of pulling some random stuff out of the air. The P4M is a cut down/low power P4. Same long pipeline, same problem with wasted cycles if prediction goes awry. That said, I'd be hard pushed to say that a 1GHz Duron can perform the same as a P4M 1.8, especially since Durons were just cut-down Athlons. I use Gentoo, and started with -j3 a long while ago. Then I found the goodness of distcc, and have been using -j10. :) Nothing really compelling for me to upgrade to. The benefits of going from my P4 3.0E (running at 3.8GHz) to an AMD 64 3x00... There aren't really any. Aside from the on-die memory controller, there's no way I could justify the cost. The premium on high end AMD parts is somewhat outrageous, especially since they were originally the "cheap" solution. What are you looking to upgrade from? The 1GHz Duron? ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of The Edge of the Ice Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 11:14 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:01:58 -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > P4s rely on their raw speed to keep them competitive, because of their > extremely long pipeline. The newer versions are at least 20 stages, perhaps > even longer. AMD, and the P3s/Pentium Ms (not Pentium 4M) have a short > pipeline. Of course, they can't scale to be as speedy. My Pentium M 1.7 What I mentioned has nothing to do with the length of the pipeline, and applies to specific opcodes which tend to be common in certain workloads (compilation and crypto both qualify for "lots of bit operations" afaik). > competes quite well with my Pentium 4 2.8 in terms of compilation times, the How does either compare to this, though? (I'm honestly ignorant of the Intel chip branching): cpu family : 15 model : 2 model name : Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 Mobile CPU 1.80GHz (DDR266 RAM) As I said, this machine kicks its sorry ass for compilation speed last I checked (nonscientifically, granted): cpu family : 6 model : 7 model name : AMD Duron(tm) Processor (running at 1GHz, DDR266 RAM running at 200, due to the Duron's 100MHz FSB) > only thing that holds it back is the DDR 333 vs. the DDR 480 (yay > overclocking) in my workstation. That, and the laptop HD is quite a bit > slower than the workstation. That may well be true, but is mitigated by doing make -j2 or -j3. :) As it stands now, I'm caught between upgrading the CPU to an Athlon 2400+, or going all-out for a new mobo, AMD64, etc. Only "problem" is that I hear that PCI-Express is the next, greatest thing in PCs, and I haven't seen a single AMD-compatible motherboard with it. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:43:46 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:43:46 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909173012.GY8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909173012.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040909174352.D1C886D9E8@lethe.ss.org> I think my P4 3.0E (being E) is a Prescott chip. Overclocked nicely, at least. Noticed a decent boost in speed switching from the 2.8C to a 3.0E, if only because of the higher overclock. My dual AMD MP motherboard just fried, and I was looking at getting a dual Opteron replacement, but Tyan kindly replaced the thing for me, so it's still stuck at MP land. Maybe sometime next year I'll upgrade my 3.0 to something better. But much will change in a year... ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:30 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:01:58PM -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > P4s rely on their raw speed to keep them competitive, because of their > extremely long pipeline. The newer versions are at least 20 stages, perhaps > even longer. AMD, and the P3s/Pentium Ms (not Pentium 4M) have a short > pipeline. Of course, they can't scale to be as speedy. My Pentium M 1.7 > competes quite well with my Pentium 4 2.8 in terms of compilation times, the > only thing that holds it back is the DDR 333 vs. the DDR 480 (yay > overclocking) in my workstation. That, and the laptop HD is quite a bit > slower than the workstation. Current "prescott" P4's have 31 stage. Previous generation was 20 stage. This may explain why same clock speed "prescott" chips have often been slower than the "northwood" chips, although having larger cache in general helped out in other cases. Very confusing and hard to generalize performance from I guess. Opteron/Athlon 64 currently runs 12 stage pipeline as far as I know. I know which one I want. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:49:51 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> >>> Hi, where do I find the limits with which bash was compiled ? For older >>> and newer bashes ? I believe that I am trying to do something that >>> exceeds a hard compiled limit in bash and it fails in mysterious ways. >>> Specifically I have variables that contain lists of thousands of >>> numbers. Some of them seem to disappear ... >>> >>> So what is the maximum number of arguments that can be passed to a for >>> ... construct, or their maximum length ? And what are the other limits >>> ? >> >> Arguments to built-in commands (such as echo) and keywords (such as >> for) are limited only by available memory. >> >> The number of arguments that can be passed to external commands is >> system-dependent. >> >> $ echo {1..31111} > /dev/null >> $ /bin/echo {1..21111} > /dev/null >> $ /bin/echo {1..31111} > /dev/null >> bash: /bin/echo: Argument list too long >> $ > > Thanks. Is the argument list too long, as in too many words, or too many > bytes in it ? I believe either or both can apply. > In my program I have a set of directories with files in them. This follows a > naming structure represented as a regex like > > ../[0-9][0-9]/[0-9][0-9]/[0-9]{8} > > I read the names of all these files using 'ls .' or equivalent, If you are using ".", there should be no problem, but if you use wildcards, you could be passing too many arguments to ls. > prune certain things, and pass the output to a for ... construct. It > works for low file counts (~100 test case) and fails for high file > counts (~2000). The program outline is like: > > for f in `ls .|cut -d'/' -2`; do Do you mean -f2? But the output of "ls ." will not contain any slashes. What are you trying to do? > ... > done > > I am not sure where it fails. What are the exact error messages (and the exact code)? > I think that the argument list passed to for is too long but you > seem to say that the argument list passed to for is not limited (it > should be a temporary variable or the output of a pipe if I > understand how bash works). -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 00:52:45 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> Thanks. Is the argument list too long, as in too many words, or too many >> bytes in it ? > > It can be either, in fact, although "too many bytes" is much more likely. > >> ./[0-9][0-9]/[0-9][0-9]/[0-9]{8} >> I read the names of all these files using 'ls .' or equivalent... > > Uh, "or equivalent"? What, exactly, is doing the name reading, and how? > That is more likely to be the problem area than the shell. > >> I am not sure where it fails. I think that the argument list passed to for >> is too long... > > "for" being a shell builtin, that basically shouldn't happen. I don't say > it's impossible, but it seems far more likely that you're being misled and > the problem is elsewhere. The exact command I'm using is: SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) where the argument of find should expand to no more than 100 entries (102 with . and ..). the entries are guaranteed unique so that's not a problem. The cut -f4 matches several slashes which are in TMPDIR and leaves just the [0-9]{8} filename part to sort. Unfortunately basename cannot be used in a pipe (why did they write it like that ? - I should write a replacement that can be used in a pipe !). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 00:57:39 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 20:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909173012.GY8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04@lethe.ss.org> <20040909173012.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:01:58PM -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: >> P4s rely on their raw speed to keep them competitive, because of their >> extremely long pipeline. The newer versions are at least 20 stages, perhaps >> even longer. AMD, and the P3s/Pentium Ms (not Pentium 4M) have a short >> pipeline. Of course, they can't scale to be as speedy. My Pentium M 1.7 >> competes quite well with my Pentium 4 2.8 in terms of compilation times, the >> only thing that holds it back is the DDR 333 vs. the DDR 480 (yay >> overclocking) in my workstation. That, and the laptop HD is quite a bit >> slower than the workstation. > > Current "prescott" P4's have 31 stage. Previous generation was 20 > stage. > > This may explain why same clock speed "prescott" chips have often been > slower than the "northwood" chips, although having larger cache in > general helped out in other cases. Very confusing and hard to > generalize performance from I guess. > > Opteron/Athlon 64 currently runs 12 stage pipeline as far as I know. > > I know which one I want. Is it a secret ? ;-) Question: if the pipeline length is so important then these cpus should work better with 'flattened' code (no jumps, no loops). Do the speed tests just so happen to be compiled flattened ? I.e. do the chip makers add pipeline length to look better in tests or to give better all-round performance. I suspect that code with very short runs between jumps and loops (such as code compiled for size optimisation) will run relatively slowly on such a cpu. True ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:44:35 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:44:35 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094746815.15673.11.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040909174435.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:20:15PM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > My motherboard just recently blew out (or whatever you want to call > it). My computer just stopped working and when I looked at the > motherboard there was this thick grey dust all over it (well centred > around the cpu). Needless to say, I had to buy a new motherboard and in > turn a new cpu,memory,power supply and hey why not a new case...so 400 > and some dollars later and I have a working machine again. I was told > that it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? Thanks. I just picked up an APC XS800 UPS for $130 (regularly $200) at futureshop. Seems to do the trick. Claims to have a $150,000 lifetime equipment warrenty, whatever that really means. APC UPSs have very good surge protection in them as far as I am aware. And they protect against those stupid 1s power failures, and over and under voltage. Might be able to find similar deals. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:57:21 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:57:21 -0400 Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909175721.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:52:45PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > The exact command I'm using is: > > SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) That could expand to a long list of files I suspect. Perhaps it is the $(..) that has the limit you are encountering. > where the argument of find should expand to no more than 100 entries (102 > with . and ..). the entries are guaranteed unique so that's not a problem. > The cut -f4 matches several slashes which are in TMPDIR and leaves just > the [0-9]{8} filename part to sort. Unfortunately basename cannot be used > in a pipe (why did they write it like that ? - I should write a > replacement that can be used in a pipe !). Because sed works well? ... | sed -e 's%.*/\([^/]*\)$%\1%' | ... Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:12:12 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:12:12 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: References: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04@lethe.ss.org> <20040909173012.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040909181212.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:57:39PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Is it a secret ? ;-) I despise the design of the P4. I don't like inefficient designs. The athlon 64 is what I want in my next machine. > Question: if the pipeline length is so important then these cpus should > work better with 'flattened' code (no jumps, no loops). Do the speed tests > just so happen to be compiled flattened ? I.e. do the chip makers add > pipeline length to look better in tests or to give better all-round > performance. I suspect that code with very short runs between jumps and > loops (such as code compiled for size optimisation) will run relatively > slowly on such a cpu. True ? Well the longer pipeline means less of the instruction is being performed at each stage, so each stage is simpler and can hence be executed faster. This helps you to increase clock speed. If your code has no branches, and doesn't have too much dependancy on previous results, your instructions can pretty much just flow through with no problems (out of order execution helps a bit with the dependancies on prior results by doing other non dependant instructions ahead of the ones waiting). So in the ideal case, the pipeline length doesn't hurt at all, and allows higher clock rates, so the cpu is faster. In the bad case, with lots of branches, or instructions are continuously waiting for the prior instructions result before being able to start excuting, the pipeline length becomes an issue, since if it takes an instruction 31 stages to execute and you have to wait for most of the previous instruction to finish before you are starting your turn, then you essentially end up dividing the clock speed by the pipeline length to determine number of instructions executed per second, which in the worst case is terrible with a long pipeline. Fortunately branch prediction often works by assuming that what happened in a certain branch location last time is likely to be what happens again this time, so the code from that branch can already go through the pipeline. Some even run both choices of a pipeline at the same time using unused execution units of the cpu (while instructions are waiting for prior instructions and such) and evaluate both choices, and simple throw away the wrong branch when the branch to take is determined. Getting smarter branch predictions that can detect paterns in when a branch is taken, and such are all important to cpu design when the pipeline length is increased. Compiler optimizations, such as loop unrolling and such can also help by turning a 1000 short loops into 100 longer loops (saves 90% of the branch checks and helps the branch prediction logic). Basically lots can be done to help a cpu with a longer pipeline perform well, but it depends on the software algorithms involved and on the compiler optimizations. This is why when the P4 came out, it didn't look so good, but eventually software came out that had been optimized for it's pipeline length and instruction preference, and all of a sudden it's performance got much better. The athlon and athlon 64 with a shorter pipeline deals much better with legacy code optimized for older generations since it is more similar in behaviour to those older chips. The itanium (IA64) doesn't do any instruction reordering, and has 3 instructions for every 128bit instruction word that goes into it, and those 3 instructions are placed together by the compiler to run at the same time. A good compiler is required for the itanium to perform well, but it made the design simpler. It just requires the compiler to do all the work to determine what can be done at once and what order everything would work best in. If a problem happens to be very dynamic and can't be determined optimally at compile time, the itanium won't perform as well. Worst case for it would be a problem that is so linear that only one instruction would actually be in each instruction word leaving 1/3 of the cpu unused at all times running that code. Hmm, that may have been wayyy to long, and I think my kernel compile just finished. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 17:52:17 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 13:52:17 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909174352.D1C886D9E8-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909173012.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040909174352.D1C886D9E8@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040909175217.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 01:43:46PM -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > I think my P4 3.0E (being E) is a Prescott chip. Overclocked nicely, at > least. Noticed a decent boost in speed switching from the 2.8C to a 3.0E, > if only because of the higher overclock. Long pipelines tend to help the clock speed boosts. Doesn't help at all during branch misses (which they have tuned a bit better in the prescott too, as it is obviously even more important to it). With the first steppings of the Pentium Pro, the pipeline would have to be flushed completely and restarted if it ever encountered a 16 bit aligned read/write, since it was entirely designed for 32bit only. Intel I guess underestimated how long it would be until people stopped runing 16bit code. Later revisions made some changes to allow it to detect earlier in the pipeline when it was going to have a problem and deal with it right away to avoid the whole branch being wasted. As far as I recall the PPro was around 11 or 13 stages or so. P2/P3 being essentially the same design are probably the same length pipeline. Not short pipelines by the standards of the time, but short compared to the P4 and very similar to the athlon 64. > My dual AMD MP motherboard just fried, and I was looking at getting a dual > Opteron replacement, but Tyan kindly replaced the thing for me, so it's > still stuck at MP land. Maybe sometime next year I'll upgrade my 3.0 to > something better. But much will change in a year... Well nice when companies replace stuff that fails. Probably good to retain customers that way. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:17:29 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:17:29 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <414087E4.6080009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> <414087E4.6080009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41409E39.90206@deeptown.org> I bought mine APC surge protector for $25 in Costco. It have insurance for $200 000 for damaged equipment. It probably still in stock in Costco stores. PS: BTW, today I've found one new outlet of Canada Computers at 5799 Yonge St. ( three blocks north of Finch ) It bigger than on Spadina, and almost with no customers. All the Best! Sergey. James Knott wrote: > Devin Whalen wrote: > >> Hey, >> >> My motherboard just recently blew out (or whatever you want to call >> it). My computer just stopped working and when I looked at the >> motherboard there was this thick grey dust all over it (well centred >> around the cpu). Needless to say, I had to buy a new motherboard and in >> turn a new cpu,memory,power supply and hey why not a new case...so 400 >> and some dollars later and I have a working machine again. I was told >> that it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but >> I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this >> doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? Thanks. > > > You can get proper surge protectors, not those cheap power bars, with > MOVs in them. However, don't be too hasty in your conclusions. You > mentioned dust, which can cause the CPU to overheat, or it could have > been something unrelated to the environment. Some components fail on > their own. I recall a problem with capacitors blowing, a few years ago. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 01:30:01 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:30:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: <20040909175721.GB8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909175721.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:52:45PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> The exact command I'm using is: >> >> SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) > > That could expand to a long list of files I suspect. Perhaps it is the > $(..) that has the limit you are encountering. I tried that using seq. The limit is much higher and if the other responders are right, it should not be a problem. >> where the argument of find should expand to no more than 100 entries (102 >> with . and ..). the entries are guaranteed unique so that's not a problem. >> The cut -f4 matches several slashes which are in TMPDIR and leaves just >> the [0-9]{8} filename part to sort. Unfortunately basename cannot be used >> in a pipe (why did they write it like that ? - I should write a >> replacement that can be used in a pipe !). > > Because sed works well? > > ... | sed -e 's%.*/\([^/]*\)$%\1%' | ... Right, I haven't thought of that. Since I also need sorting I had an eye on gawk. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:18:35 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:18:35 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909175217.GA8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909175217.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040909181851.9A2436DA16@lethe.ss.org> Not sure about the first steppings of the PPro, but it was a 12 stage pipeline. The P6 core (of which the PPro was the first) was all sorts of good, considering the Pentium M is based on it. Yeah, I'm pleased with Tyan's support. The board arrived today, but I have yet to see if it's a new one, or just a refurb. I'm hoping it's a new one. ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lennart Sorensen Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:52 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 01:43:46PM -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > I think my P4 3.0E (being E) is a Prescott chip. Overclocked nicely, at > least. Noticed a decent boost in speed switching from the 2.8C to a 3.0E, > if only because of the higher overclock. Long pipelines tend to help the clock speed boosts. Doesn't help at all during branch misses (which they have tuned a bit better in the prescott too, as it is obviously even more important to it). With the first steppings of the Pentium Pro, the pipeline would have to be flushed completely and restarted if it ever encountered a 16 bit aligned read/write, since it was entirely designed for 32bit only. Intel I guess underestimated how long it would be until people stopped runing 16bit code. Later revisions made some changes to allow it to detect earlier in the pipeline when it was going to have a problem and deal with it right away to avoid the whole branch being wasted. As far as I recall the PPro was around 11 or 13 stages or so. P2/P3 being essentially the same design are probably the same length pipeline. Not short pipelines by the standards of the time, but short compared to the P4 and very similar to the athlon 64. > My dual AMD MP motherboard just fried, and I was looking at getting a dual > Opteron replacement, but Tyan kindly replaced the thing for me, so it's > still stuck at MP land. Maybe sometime next year I'll upgrade my 3.0 to > something better. But much will change in a year... Well nice when companies replace stuff that fails. Probably good to retain customers that way. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:29:22 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:29:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > The exact command I'm using is: > > SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) What error message is it giving you? And wouldn't this do what you want: SORTED=`find $TMPDIR -type -f -name '*[0-9]*' -printf "%f\n"` > where the argument of find should expand to no more than 100 entries (102 > with . and ..). the entries are guaranteed unique so that's not a problem. > The cut -f4 matches several slashes which are in TMPDIR and leaves just the > [0-9]{8} filename part to sort. Unfortunately basename cannot be used in a > pipe (why did they write it like that ? - I should write a replacement that > can be used in a pipe !). awk -F/ '{printf $NF}' -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:28:32 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:28:32 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909181212.GC8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04@lethe.ss.org> <20040909173012.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040909181212.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1094754512.15673.18.camel@192.168.1.80> On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 14:12, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:57:39PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Is it a secret ? ;-) > > I despise the design of the P4. I don't like inefficient designs. > > The athlon 64 is what I want in my next machine. > > > Question: if the pipeline length is so important then these cpus should > > work better with 'flattened' code (no jumps, no loops). Do the speed tests > > just so happen to be compiled flattened ? I.e. do the chip makers add > > pipeline length to look better in tests or to give better all-round > > performance. I suspect that code with very short runs between jumps and > > loops (such as code compiled for size optimisation) will run relatively > > slowly on such a cpu. True ? > > Well the longer pipeline means less of the instruction is being > performed at each stage, so each stage is simpler and can hence be > executed faster. This helps you to increase clock speed. > > If your code has no branches, and doesn't have too much dependancy on > previous results, your instructions can pretty much just flow through > with no problems (out of order execution helps a bit with the > dependancies on prior results by doing other non dependant instructions > ahead of the ones waiting). So in the ideal case, the pipeline length > doesn't hurt at all, and allows higher clock rates, so the cpu is > faster. > > In the bad case, with lots of branches, or instructions are > continuously waiting for the prior instructions result before being able > to start excuting, the pipeline length becomes an issue, since if it > takes an instruction 31 stages to execute and you have to wait for most > of the previous instruction to finish before you are starting your turn, > then you essentially end up dividing the clock speed by the pipeline > length to determine number of instructions executed per second, which in > the worst case is terrible with a long pipeline. > > Fortunately branch prediction often works by assuming that what happened > in a certain branch location last time is likely to be what happens > again this time, so the code from that branch can already go through the > pipeline. Some even run both choices of a pipeline at the same time > using unused execution units of the cpu (while instructions are waiting > for prior instructions and such) and evaluate both choices, and simple > throw away the wrong branch when the branch to take is determined. > Getting smarter branch predictions that can detect paterns in when a > branch is taken, and such are all important to cpu design when the > pipeline length is increased. Compiler optimizations, such as loop > unrolling and such can also help by turning a 1000 short loops into 100 > longer loops (saves 90% of the branch checks and helps the branch > prediction logic). > > Basically lots can be done to help a cpu with a longer pipeline perform > well, but it depends on the software algorithms involved and on the > compiler optimizations. This is why when the P4 came out, it didn't > look so good, but eventually software came out that had been optimized > for it's pipeline length and instruction preference, and all of a sudden > it's performance got much better. The athlon and athlon 64 with a > shorter pipeline deals much better with legacy code optimized for older > generations since it is more similar in behaviour to those older chips. > > The itanium (IA64) doesn't do any instruction reordering, and has 3 > instructions for every 128bit instruction word that goes into it, and > those 3 instructions are placed together by the compiler to run at the > same time. A good compiler is required for the itanium to perform well, > but it made the design simpler. It just requires the compiler to do all > the work to determine what can be done at once and what order everything > would work best in. If a problem happens to be very dynamic and can't > be determined optimally at compile time, the itanium won't perform as > well. Worst case for it would be a problem that is so linear that only > one instruction would actually be in each instruction word leaving 1/3 > of the cpu unused at all times running that code. > > Hmm, that may have been wayyy to long, and I think my kernel compile > just finished. > > Lennart Sorensen I was going to pipe in with a defence of the P4 design but after Lennart's email I now realize that I know nothing about computers and that my only possible rebuttal is...."My cat's breath smells like cat food"....I will now proceed to go home and throw my brand new Pentium machine in the garbage :) Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:31:10 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094746815.15673.11.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > ...it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? As others have noted, a good UPS is the definitive cure for power trouble. However, I've never bothered to go that far -- power outages are rare here and it seems like overkill, especially since I've got rather a lot of computer gear and would need a rather large UPS. What I *have* done is that all my computer hardware is on (directly or via an intermediate power strip) surge-suppressor power bars. Don't try to cheap out on these -- buy the top of the line, not the bottom. I use APC's "network"-class bars. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 01:36:26 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:36:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: <20040909181932.GA1592-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909181932.GA1592@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:52:45PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> The exact command I'm using is: >> >> SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) >> >> where the argument of find should expand to no more than 100 entries >> (102 with . and ..). the entries are guaranteed unique so that's not a >> problem. The cut -f4 matches several slashes which are in TMPDIR and >> leaves just the [0-9]{8} filename part to sort. Unfortunately basename >> cannot be used in a pipe (why did they write it like that ? - I should >> write a replacement that can be used in a pipe !). > > I don't see any problem area. Try each command in sequence, ie. > find $TMPDIR/* -type f > find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+ > find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4 > find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort > > You should put [0-9]+ in quotes like '[0-9]+'. I tried that, using wc -w as last command. The problem is not there. It must be something simple that is toatally obvious and happens only when $SORTED is used with for ... I tried putting the entire pipeline as the argument of for ... and that didi not fix it. I will look at it some more. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:19:32 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:19:32 -0400 Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909181932.GA1592@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 08:52:45PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > The exact command I'm using is: > > SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) > > where the argument of find should expand to no more than 100 entries > (102 with . and ..). the entries are guaranteed unique so that's not a > problem. The cut -f4 matches several slashes which are in TMPDIR and > leaves just the [0-9]{8} filename part to sort. Unfortunately basename > cannot be used in a pipe (why did they write it like that ? - I should > write a replacement that can be used in a pipe !). I don't see any problem area. Try each command in sequence, ie. find $TMPDIR/* -type f find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+ find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4 find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort You should put [0-9]+ in quotes like '[0-9]+'. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:38:02 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:38:02 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <1094754512.15673.18.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094754512.15673.18.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040909183808.D60DE6DA86@lethe.ss.org> Well, the P4 design allowed it to scale to speeds that the Athlon XP/64/Opteron cannot. It was a trade-off. To get fast, they increased the pipeline, added new instructions, etc, etc. Hence the comparison of things like a 2.2GHz AMD to a 3.2GHz P4. More work per cycle vs. more cycles to get things done. Now, a dual core Pentium M... That'd be sick. ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Devin Whalen Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 1:29 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos I was going to pipe in with a defence of the P4 design but after Lennart's email I now realize that I know nothing about computers and that my only possible rebuttal is...."My cat's breath smells like cat food"....I will now proceed to go home and throw my brand new Pentium machine in the garbage :) Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:49:11 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:49:11 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <1094754512.15673.18.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909160205.2208F6DA04@lethe.ss.org> <20040909173012.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040909181212.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1094754512.15673.18.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040909184911.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 02:28:32PM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > I was going to pipe in with a defence of the P4 design but after > Lennart's email I now realize that I know nothing about computers and > that my only possible rebuttal is...."My cat's breath smells like cat > food"....I will now proceed to go home and throw my brand new Pentium > machine in the garbage :) Well the P4 design does work real well on massive data crunching such as video encoding and the like, when it is written and compiled to use SSE2 instructions to work on multiple pieces of data at once, in long identical loops. It's really fast at some things (with optimized code) and not so fast at others (with or without optimized code). Now imagine how confusing it will be when intel finishes the switch to model numbers. It is pretty obvious to most users (and should generally be tru) that a 530 will be fast than a 525, although there might also be a 527 with more cache but the same clock speed as a 525 but less clock speed than the 530 added in, and then you again end up having performance really depend on your code. And while a 530 should be faster than a 330 (you would hope), how will it compare to a 340 or a 350? So far intel has 3xx, 5xx and 7xx series but are talking about a 6xx series and I believe an 8xx series as well. The Pentium-M is probably going to be one of them, and the Pentium 4 another, and the Celeron-D (P4 derived celerons) the 3xx series. Clock speed was never a good indication, but it was what consumers had. AMD tried to indicate speed with their model name rating system, although I am not sure a dual memory channel 2ghz athlon 64 with 1M cache is necesarily always faster than a 2.4ghz athlon 64 with 512k cache, but the former is 3500+ socket 939 and the latter a 3400+ with socket 754 (socket 939 is dual channel ram, socket 754 is single channel ram, the older 940 is dual channel with ECC used by opterons (for servers) and the first FX chips (which were opteron 1xx's)). AMD is doing something similar but not quite the same for the opteron chips, with 1xx being single cpu chips, 2xx being dual cpu chips, and 8xx being >2 cpu chips. This is the number of cpus that can be placed in one machine in this case. A dual core chip will still only count as one cpu as far as cpu interconnects are concerned. But that's next years problem. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:47:53 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 14:47:53 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1094755673.15673.26.camel@192.168.1.80> On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 14:31, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > > ...it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? > > As others have noted, a good UPS is the definitive cure for power trouble. > However, I've never bothered to go that far -- power outages are rare here > and it seems like overkill, especially since I've got rather a lot of > computer gear and would need a rather large UPS. > > What I *have* done is that all my computer hardware is on (directly or via > an intermediate power strip) surge-suppressor power bars. Don't try to > cheap out on these -- buy the top of the line, not the bottom. I use > APC's "network"-class bars. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thanks to everyone for the advice on this. While a ups would be the best option, I want to buy a dvd burner and another stick of memory so I would like the cheapest option. So I think I will be buying what Sergey and Henry mentioned an APC thingy...but (besides Costco) where do I get one? I looked on the web site for Canada Computers and filtechcomputer.com and they don't have any. Would this be at Canadian Tire or something? Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:50:55 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:50:55 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909183808.D60DE6DA86-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094754512.15673.18.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040909183808.D60DE6DA86@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040909185055.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 02:38:02PM -0400, Michael Laccetti wrote: > Well, the P4 design allowed it to scale to speeds that the Athlon > XP/64/Opteron cannot. It was a trade-off. To get fast, they increased the > pipeline, added new instructions, etc, etc. Hence the comparison of things > like a 2.2GHz AMD to a 3.2GHz P4. More work per cycle vs. more cycles to > get things done. > > Now, a dual core Pentium M... That'd be sick. Apparently intel is considering it if "The Register" and other rumours can be believed. And what about P4 dual core with hyperthreading in each core? The poor OS could be so confused. Some parts share L1 cache, some share L2 cache, some share just system ram. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 18:54:19 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 14:54:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094755673.15673.26.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094755673.15673.26.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > > What I *have* done is that all my computer hardware is on (directly or via > > an intermediate power strip) surge-suppressor power bars. Don't try to > > cheap out on these -- buy the top of the line, not the bottom. I use > > APC's "network"-class bars. > > Thanks to everyone for the advice on this. While a ups would be the > best option, I want to buy a dvd burner and another stick of memory so I > would like the cheapest option. So I think I will be buying what Sergey > and Henry mentioned an APC thingy...but (besides Costco) where do I get > one? I think most of mine came from OTA (www.otapc.com, on College a block or two west of Spadina). Don't know if they still carry them, though. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 19:24:23 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 15:24:23 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200409091524.23245.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Thursday 09 September 2004 08:33 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: > There would have been no need to move that new partition. To make linux > happy with shifted partitions one boots from a rescue disk and edits the > relevant scripts (usually /etc/fstab on the root volume) and the boot > script (/etc/lilo.conf or equivalent). This makes linux aware of the new > setup without needing to move anything. What would you have done if you > had not had a tool that moves partitions around ? > > Peter Rescue disks are fine if you have a setup that permits the use of them. My system is a ThinkPad with only an external USB floppy. So far I have not been able to use an external floppy for booting. Maybe someone has some experience with this. Also, recent distros have a size that excceeds the storage capacity of a normal floppy. On the subject of USB floppies, does anyone know how to format them for a Linux fs . John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 19:55:05 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 15:55:05 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409091524.23245.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200409091524.23245.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <1094759705.2810.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 15:24, John Wildberger wrote: > Rescue disks are fine if you have a setup that permits the use of them. My > system is a ThinkPad with only an external USB floppy. at ~50meg, damnsmalllinux was designed to fit on, and boot from, a USB key. It features a fill (if lightweight) desktop, and essential rescue tools ( like .. umm.. vi !) http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ > On the subject of USB floppies, does anyone know how to format them for a > Linux fs . but WHY ? It would only complicate things. Stay with fat16 and you will be able to sneakernet with Windoze. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 20:25:17 2004 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:25:17 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094746815.15673.11.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org>; from devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org on Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:20:15PM -0400 References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040909162517.B13536@ee.ryerson.ca> A UPS or a Surge Protector will work if indeed it was a line surge that caused the failure. But I suspect that many so-called 'surge failures' are actually power supplies that fail in Frankenstein mode. The surge protector and UPS can't help with this at all. A properly designed computer power supply should have a crowbar circuit that clamps the output even when a catastrophic failure occurs internally. I went through this a while ago with my wife's machine. The power supply failed spectacularly, taking out everything in the box. OTA claimed this was a line generated surge failure, but there were several computers on the same power line at the same time that were unaffected, so that didn't wash. Very, very reluctantly and after some hard bargaining, OTA gave us a new machine at 'cost'. I think one's best insurance is to have a high-quality power supply in the box. Competitive pressures to produce a high-power supply for a tiny cost result in marginal supplies that fail in this manner. The power supply is an unsung component in the computer, but it's critically important. (The invention of the switching power supply is one of the things that makes a modern computer cost and size feasible for consumers.) Spend some money on a good power supply, don't just take whatever comes in the enclosure. My 2 cents worth. Peter On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 12:20:15PM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > My motherboard just recently blew out (or whatever you want to call > it). My computer just stopped working and when I looked at the > motherboard there was this thick grey dust all over it (well centred > around the cpu). Needless to say, I had to buy a new motherboard and in > turn a new cpu,memory,power supply and hey why not a new case...so 400 > and some dollars later and I have a working machine again. I was told > that it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? Thanks. > > Later > > > -- > Devin Whalen > Programmer > Synaptic Vision Inc > Phone-(416) 539-0801 > Fax- (416) 539-8280 > 1179A King St. West > Toronto, Ontario > Suite 309 M6K 3C5 > Home-(416) 653-3982 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 20:32:17 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:32:17 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <20040909162517.B13536-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040909162517.B13536@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20040909203217.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 04:25:17PM -0400, Peter Hiscocks wrote: > A UPS or a Surge Protector will work if indeed it was a line surge that > caused the failure. But I suspect that many so-called 'surge failures' are > actually power supplies that fail in Frankenstein mode. The surge protector > and UPS can't help with this at all. A properly designed computer power > supply should have a crowbar circuit that clamps the output even when a > catastrophic failure occurs internally. > > I went through this a while ago with my wife's machine. The power supply > failed spectacularly, taking out everything in the box. OTA claimed this was > a line generated surge failure, but there were several computers on the same > power line at the same time that were unaffected, so that didn't wash. Very, > very reluctantly and after some hard bargaining, OTA gave us a new machine > at 'cost'. > > I think one's best insurance is to have a high-quality power supply in the > box. Competitive pressures to produce a high-power supply for a tiny cost > result in marginal supplies that fail in this manner. The power supply is an > unsung component in the computer, but it's critically important. (The > invention of the switching power supply is one of the things that makes a > modern computer cost and size feasible for consumers.) Spend some money on a > good power supply, don't just take whatever comes in the enclosure. > > My 2 cents worth. Well I started using PC Power & Cooling after a power supply fried on me in 96, and I have also used Antecs a couple of times in the last year. I have even seen a PC where win98 (on a k6-2 450) would crash frequently, corrupt filesystem, etc, and eventually the power supply was replaced by one from PC Power & Cooling and all of a sudden the system didn't crash, and it no longer corrupted files. Cheap power supplies can make a system crash a lot. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 20:46:51 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:46:51 -0400 Subject: which SSL certificate for apache? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204090906006cb12f2e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040908181717.GB1526@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040908183551.GA1655@node1.opengeometry.net> <413F5669.6060000@istop.com> <413FC32F.90802@almatau.com> <414052F9.2070305@detachednetworks.ca> <4386c5b204090906006cb12f2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4140C13B.90104@detachednetworks.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: >>www.godaddy.com >> >>$29.95 USD >> >> > >woah.Can anyone confirm the compatibility of this cert? >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > even better :) http://www.freessl.com/starterssl/starterssl.html $19 USD -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 20:51:16 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 16:51:16 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <20040909162517.B13536-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040909162517.B13536@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20040909205116.GA2184@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 04:25:17PM -0400, Peter Hiscocks wrote: > I think one's best insurance is to have a high-quality power supply in the > box. Competitive pressures to produce a high-power supply for a tiny cost > result in marginal supplies that fail in this manner. The power supply is an > unsung component in the computer, but it's critically important. (The > invention of the switching power supply is one of the things that makes a > modern computer cost and size feasible for consumers.) Spend some money on a > good power supply, don't just take whatever comes in the enclosure. I agree. But, I've been satisfied with power supply that came with Enlight and Antec case. Not a single system crashes, even through light flickering. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 21:19:02 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:19:02 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409091258.54512.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <4140C8C6.5020601@rogers.com> John Wildberger wrote: > Now I have a drive E that can be mounted as /dev/hda4 and this permits me to > send files to XP . I also made the appropriate addition to /etc/fstab. > Pretty neat, don't you agree ??? Now, what you'll want to do, is move the "My Documents" folder to the FAT32 partition, and also create a link to it, from your home directory. This will make it a lot easier to work on the same files, from either OS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 21:37:35 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:37:35 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094755673.15673.26.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094755673.15673.26.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <4140CD1F.6020703@rogers.com> Devin Whalen wrote: > Thanks to everyone for the advice on this. While a ups would be the > best option, I want to buy a dvd burner and another stick of memory so I > would like the cheapest option. So I think I will be buying what Sergey > and Henry mentioned an APC thingy...but (besides Costco) where do I get > one? I looked on the web site for Canada Computers and > filtechcomputer.com and they don't have any. Would this be at Canadian > Tire or something? Not likely Canadian Tire, though Staples definitly have them and Future shop might. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 21:41:52 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 09 Sep 2004 17:41:52 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409091524.23245.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200409091524.23245.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <4140CE20.1050701@rogers.com> John Wildberger wrote: > On Thursday 09 September 2004 08:33 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: > >>There would have been no need to move that new partition. To make linux >>happy with shifted partitions one boots from a rescue disk and edits the >>relevant scripts (usually /etc/fstab on the root volume) and the boot >>script (/etc/lilo.conf or equivalent). This makes linux aware of the new >>setup without needing to move anything. What would you have done if you >>had not had a tool that moves partitions around ? >> >>Peter > > Rescue disks are fine if you have a setup that permits the use of them. My > system is a ThinkPad with only an external USB floppy. So far I have not been > able to use an external floppy for booting. Maybe someone has some experience > with this. > Also, recent distros have a size that excceeds the storage capacity of a > normal floppy. > On the subject of USB floppies, does anyone know how to format them for a > Linux fs . You can use rescue CDs with the ThinkPad. As for formatting, I haven't tried with a USB floppy, but I think you could use the mkfs commands. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gogojohn-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 23:11:31 2004 From: gogojohn-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John R. Southern) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:11:31 -0400 Subject: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... In-Reply-To: <20040909145139.GA6755@antec> References: <20040909145139.GA6755@antec> Message-ID: <20040909231135.HOCU25796.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@nanook> Hi Peter, I've purchased several such drives from Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com). At the time (last year) they had the best prices around, as SCSI drives tend to be rather pricey. Cheers... ... John -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter King Sent: September 9, 2004 10:52 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... Any suggestions where I might find a fast/wide SCSI-2 disk? I'm looking to boost disk space on an old Sun Ultra-1 to have enough room to install a workable version of Linux (or maybe Solaris 9) -- the current drive is only 1G, and there must be a place to go for (say) a 4.9G old scsi disk. But I don't know where that is. Does anyone? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-3788 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 23:20:04 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:20:04 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040909232030.96DD26DA70@lethe.ss.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Henry > Spencer > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:31 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Power Surge Protection > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > > ...it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? I saw a couple for cheap at factorydirect.ca Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 23:22:48 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:22:48 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2040909094813e6765e-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b2040909094813e6765e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040909232241.E180A6D7CE@lethe.ss.org> > > I found this: > > http://www.cadesigns.co.uk/dk1b.htm > > but at 72 pounds, it's a little insane. I can probably find a ps/2 > keyboard for a little less... Considering you can get a keyboard for $5, spending $165 CAD is a bit crazy. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 9 23:29:02 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 19:29:02 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <1094746815.15673.11.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1094746815.15673.11.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040909232912.BB9DF6DA09@lethe.ss.org> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Devin > Whalen > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 12:20 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Power Surge Protection > > Hey, > > My motherboard just recently blew out (or whatever you want to call > it). My computer just stopped working and when I looked at the > motherboard there was this thick grey dust all over it (well centred > around the cpu). Needless to say, I had to buy a new motherboard and in > turn a new cpu,memory,power supply and hey why not a new case...so 400 > and some dollars later and I have a working machine again. I was told > that it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? Thanks. > Hi Devin, I had a similar problem last year. Thank goodness for RAID and USB hardrives, I managed to salvage most of my data even though my three primary hard drives were ruined as well. I ended up going all out and buying a UPS and surge power bars for all my devices, a 750 watt power supply with six fans, a cooling case, and moving most of my drives into portable housings. As a side note, I love the way the Metal Gear Box looks, I have two sitting on top of my computer. See http://factorydirect.ca/images/specs/ME82091.jpg In my case, it was a combination of poor ventilation, over heating (has too many drives in the case), and unconditioned power. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 01:47:29 2004 From: arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 21:47:29 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: <20040909232030.96DD26DA70-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909232030.96DD26DA70@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: You might also try Tiger Direct. Look at their web site www.tigerdirect.ca for a price preview. Alain -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Sidney Shapiro Sent: September 9, 2004 7:20 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Power Surge Protection > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Henry > Spencer > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 2:31 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Power Surge Protection > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > > ...it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? I saw a couple for cheap at factorydirect.ca Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.745 / Virus Database: 497 - Release Date: 27/08/2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 02:00:32 2004 From: rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:00:32 -0400 Subject: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... In-Reply-To: <20040909231135.HOCU25796.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@nanook> References: <20040909231135.HOCU25796.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@nanook> Message-ID: <004e01c496d9$f69a3f30$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com> I found a good SCSI drive at Factory Direct just across and up the street from Canada Computers believe it or not. Also, there is a store across the street from Factory Direct on College that has an old server right at the front of the store, perhaps they have some old SCSI drives. Perhaps Mad Scientist in Kensington Market... This is also something you might find on tor.forsale (is this correct? or tor.forsale.computer?) news group. Good luck, Robert -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of John R. Southern Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2004 7:12 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: RE: [TLUG]: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... Hi Peter, I've purchased several such drives from Canada Computers (www.canadacomputers.com). At the time (last year) they had the best prices around, as SCSI drives tend to be rather pricey. Cheers... ... John -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter King Sent: September 9, 2004 10:52 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: WHere? Fast Wide SCSI-2... Any suggestions where I might find a fast/wide SCSI-2 disk? I'm looking to boost disk space on an old Sun Ultra-1 to have enough room to install a workable version of Linux (or maybe Solaris 9) -- the current drive is only 1G, and there must be a place to go for (say) a 4.9G old scsi disk. But I don't know where that is. Does anyone? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-3788 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ======================================================================== = GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 02:33:40 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:33:40 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <1094650709.2545.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040909223340.1828ac1b.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 08 Sep 2004 10:38:29 -0300 Tim Goodaire wrote: > Hello everyone, > > I've just taken a new job in Toronto, and will be moving there from > Halifax around the beginning of October. I will be attending TLUG > meetings, and look forward to meeting you all. > > I'm looking for some information, before I move to Toronto. I would like > to know what my options are for ISPs, and which ones you folks > recommend. In particular, do you know if any of them block port 25? All > of the ISPs here in Halifax do, which is rather annoying if you're a > geek who wants to run their own mailserver at home. What about > connection speeds? Customer service? Tim, Welcome to Toronto. Echo Online did not use to block port 25, and I was able to use a local mail server to transmit email. Unfortunately, people I sending email to are on mail servers that block phone-in IP addresses. I switched back to using EOL's mail server. Wouldn't it be fun to have some spammers tied up down in your basement and covered with peanut butter or something? -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 02:33:27 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 9 Sep 2004 22:33:27 -0400 Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040909223340.1828ac1b.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040909223340.1828ac1b.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b204090919337c26f0e0@mail.gmail.com> > Wouldn't it be fun to have some spammers tied up down in your basement and covered with peanut butter or something? Ssh! Don't let them know we're doing that! ...besides, you left out the part about the fire ants. Amateur. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 04:27:26 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 00:27:26 -0400 Subject: OT: song/recording charts/databases on the web ? Message-ID: <20040910042726.GC16517@m1800> Is there a recording/song metadata database available on the web? My favourite music spans the 30's, 40's, 50's, and to the end of 1963. E.g. pre-Beatles rock and pop and big-band. The scarey part is that a lot of is so old that it's now public domain in Canada and most of the planet for that matter, excluding the USA and its territories (Puerto Rico, Guam, Iraq, etc). I'd like to find out what year songs were done, and artist names, etc. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 04:57:58 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 10 Sep 2004 00:57:58 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <1094759705.2810.25.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200409091524.23245.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <1094759705.2810.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: David J Patrick writes: > On Thu, 2004-09-09 at 15:24, John Wildberger wrote: > > Rescue disks are fine if you have a setup that permits the use of them. My > > system is a ThinkPad with only an external USB floppy. > > at ~50meg, damnsmalllinux was designed to fit on, and boot from, a USB > key. It features a fill (if lightweight) desktop, and essential rescue > tools ( like .. umm.. vi !) > http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/ RIP (Rescue Is Possible) is also ~50MB and boots from USB key or CD-ROM. > > On the subject of USB floppies, does anyone know how to format them for a > > Linux fs . Sure, just use mke2fs, mkreiserfs, etc. > but WHY ? It would only complicate things. If you're sharing them with Windows, yes. But if you want to preserve permissions, ownership, etc. w/o resorting to a tar, cpio, etc. archive, a native Linux file system is much more convenient. > Stay with fat16 and you will be able to sneakernet with Windoze. > djp -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 11:20:13 2004 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:20:13 -0400 Subject: running a server headless/keyboardless? In-Reply-To: ; from henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org on Thu, Sep 09, 2004 at 11:48:26 -0400 References: Message-ID: <20040910112013.GA1963@localhost> On Thu Sep 09,2004 11:48:26 AM Henry Spencer wrote: > If one is willing to spend money on dealing with such stupidity, > there is (or was -- haven't kept current) at least one company > that sells a little widget that plugs into a keyboard port and > pretends to be a keyboard, precisely to convince stupid BIOSes > that there really is one there. If you're a little mechanically inclined, you can grab an old keyboard (or buy a cheap $10 one from Factory Direct, etc.). Open it up, keep the little circuit board and the attached cable, then junk the rest. Put the circuit board in a small plastic bag, or somthing else that is non-conductive. The result is a "keyboard simulator" that is much smaller than a real keyboard. To save even more space, you can cut a slot in a PC back plate to run the keyboard cable through, and put the board somewhere inside the PC case. -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 05:22:29 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:22:29 +0200 Subject: konq opens at logon In-Reply-To: References: <413F6BC7.10701@onlink.net> <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41413A15.1050401@onlink.net> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: > >> Did you install Knoppix correctly? Sounds like you simply copied the >> CD files onto the harddrive. >> >> Under the Knoppix GUI environment, there's an application that allows >> you to create a Knoppix install on your hard drive. That version >> doesn't rely on the CD being installed, like the LiveCD version. > > > That install did not alter the home page for me. It had to be done by > hand in the konq properties afair (start page setting) Do you mean 'Home URL' ? I don't see any 'start page setting'. Mine is set to ~. However, the script or whatever must be giving instructions to open /cdrom/index.html, which is then opened (by default) by Konqueror. So, I think I need to know where this script or command is and kill it. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 11:40:56 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 07:40:56 -0400 Subject: OT: song/recording charts/databases on the web ? In-Reply-To: <20040910042726.GC16517@m1800> References: <20040910042726.GC16517@m1800> Message-ID: <200409100740.56577.m-cahill@rogers.com> http://www.allmusic.com This site has separate portals for classical, jazz, etc. I consider it the IMDB of music. Cross-references collaborators: producers, accompanying musicians, songwriters. Matt On September 10, 2004 12:27 am, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > Is there a recording/song metadata database available on the web? My > favourite music spans the 30's, 40's, 50's, and to the end of 1963. > E.g. pre-Beatles rock and pop and big-band. The scarey part is that a > lot of is so old that it's now public domain in Canada and most of the > planet for that matter, excluding the USA and its territories (Puerto > Rico, Guam, Iraq, etc). I'd like to find out what year songs were done, > and artist names, etc. -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 12:22:10 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 08:22:10 -0400 Subject: OT: song/recording charts/databases on the web ? In-Reply-To: <200409100740.56577.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040910042726.GC16517@m1800> <200409100740.56577.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200409100822.10317.m-cahill@rogers.com> > I consider it the IMDB of music. Cross-references collaborators: > producers, accompanying musicians, songwriters. I should add - to IMDB's credit - that allmusic.com is nowhere near as community oriented. You can't submit information, and, as a database, they aren't particularly transparent in terms of how it all works under the hood. FYI M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 17:19:09 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:19:09 -0400 Subject: Stupid SSH tricks Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121E9CD@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> I have these idiots who are using a brute force attach on ssh to gain access to the system. They try over and over again with different ip addresses. Is there any way to block an ip address after it has failed a certain number of attempts or do I have write my own script for this? Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 19:22:05 2004 From: akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adil Kodian) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:22:05 -0600 Subject: Stupid SSH tricks In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121E9CD-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121E9CD@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <7aa37fa80409101222a319f9@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 13:19:09 -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > I have these idiots who are using a brute force attach on ssh to gain access to the system. They try over and over again with different ip addresses. > > Is there any way to block an ip address after it has failed a certain number of attempts or do I have write my own script for this? if your SSH is patched and up2date, and if youre not geting too much traffic - I would just leave it alone and let them try to hack it. Sometime back there was a brute force SSH worm that would try accounts like guest/guest and others. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 22:21:43 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:21:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200409091524.23245.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <1094759705.2810.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: > If you're sharing them with Windows, yes. But if you want to preserve > permissions, ownership, etc. w/o resorting to a tar, cpio, etc. archive, a > native Linux file system is much more convenient. My solution involves FAT16 formatted usb disk that mounts normally under windoze but is mounted by automount under linux. automount.sh passes the necessary user id and group to the mount options so the files appear to be 'mine'. I also disable exec. Running something coming from the outside by clicking on a link gives me the shivers. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 21:59:38 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:59:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <4140CE20.1050701-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200409091524.23245.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <4140CE20.1050701@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > John Wildberger wrote: >> On Thursday 09 September 2004 08:33 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> >>> There would have been no need to move that new partition. To make linux >>> happy with shifted partitions one boots from a rescue disk and edits the >>> relevant scripts (usually /etc/fstab on the root volume) and the boot >>> script (/etc/lilo.conf or equivalent). This makes linux aware of the new >>> setup without needing to move anything. What would you have done if you >>> had not had a tool that moves partitions around ? >>> >>> Peter >> >> Rescue disks are fine if you have a setup that permits the use of them. My >> system is a ThinkPad with only an external USB floppy. So far I have not >> been able to use an external floppy for booting. Maybe someone has some >> experience with this. >> Also, recent distros have a size that excceeds the storage capacity of a >> normal floppy. >> On the subject of USB floppies, does anyone know how to format them for a >> Linux fs . > > You can use rescue CDs with the ThinkPad. As for formatting, I haven't tried > with a USB floppy, but I think you could use the mkfs commands. An example of a rescue disk on steroids is knoppix ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 21:52:55 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> >> The exact command I'm using is: >> >> SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) > > What error message is it giving you? Maybe I did not make myself clear: I do not get an error, some filenames simply get eaten is $SORTED is long enough. They are in $SORTED (I checked) but after I submit $SORTED to for ... they are gone. I will have to check again. Maybe I'm just wasting time and should go directly for a Perl solution. > And wouldn't this do what you want: > > SORTED=`find $TMPDIR -type -f -name '*[0-9]*' -printf "%f\n"` It should but it will get more complicated later, I will want to prune certain filenames (intersect with a list and keep what is not in it). It will probably be done in Perl later, I just tinker with the ideas for now. I would like to know what's broken ? >> where the argument of find should expand to no more than 100 entries (102 >> with . and ..). the entries are guaranteed unique so that's not a problem. >> The cut -f4 matches several slashes which are in TMPDIR and leaves just >> the [0-9]{8} filename part to sort. Unfortunately basename cannot be used >> in a pipe (why did they write it like that ? - I should write a >> replacement that can be used in a pipe !). > > awk -F/ '{printf $NF}' > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org > ================================================================= > Everything in moderation -- including moderation > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 22:19:09 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT: song/recording charts/databases on the web ? In-Reply-To: <20040910042726.GC16517@m1800> References: <20040910042726.GC16517@m1800> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > Is there a recording/song metadata database available on the web? My > favourite music spans the 30's, 40's, 50's, and to the end of 1963. > E.g. pre-Beatles rock and pop and big-band. The scarey part is that a > lot of is so old that it's now public domain in Canada and most of the > planet for that matter, excluding the USA and its territories (Puerto > Rico, Guam, Iraq, etc). I'd like to find out what year songs were done, > and artist names, etc. I don't know about online but Akai (?) used to publish a 1000+ page book that contained a reference to every vinyl and compact cassette ever made in the civilised world. I saw one once in a flea market. I am not sure it was Akai, it was one of the large Japanese firms. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 22:31:33 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:31:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: konq opens at logon In-Reply-To: <41413A15.1050401-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <413F6BC7.10701@onlink.net> <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0@mail.gmail.com> <41413A15.1050401@onlink.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Chris Aitken wrote: > Peter L. Peres wrote: > >> >> On Wed, 8 Sep 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> >>> Did you install Knoppix correctly? Sounds like you simply copied the >>> CD files onto the harddrive. >>> >>> Under the Knoppix GUI environment, there's an application that allows >>> you to create a Knoppix install on your hard drive. That version >>> doesn't rely on the CD being installed, like the LiveCD version. >> >> >> That install did not alter the home page for me. It had to be done by hand >> in the konq properties afair (start page setting) > > Do you mean 'Home URL' ? I don't see any 'start page setting'. Mine is set to yes. > ~. However, the script or whatever must be giving instructions to open > /cdrom/index.html, which is then opened (by default) by Konqueror. So, I > think I need to know where this script or command is and kill it. I don't remember where konq is started. I remember I got rid of it after a while. It could be in Kde startup folder. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 22:09:37 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:09:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Relocating to Toronto In-Reply-To: <20040909223340.1828ac1b.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1094650709.2545.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040909223340.1828ac1b.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Howard Gibson wrote: > Wouldn't it be fun to have some spammers tied up down in your basement > and covered with peanut butter or something? . The best (true) story I read about this was, some time ago a spammer was operating with servers located in China. Someone reported to the authorities that their spam contained political pamphlets against the regime. They came and took the servers and the operators. After a week they returned the servers ;-) Or so the story goes. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 19:58:05 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 15:58:05 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> On Thu, 9 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: >>> >>> The exact command I'm using is: >>> >>> SORTED=$(find $TMPDIR/* -type f|grep -E [0-9]+|cut -d'/' -f4|sort) >> >> What error message is it giving you? > > Maybe I did not make myself clear: I do not get an error, some filenames > simply get eaten is $SORTED is long enough. They are in $SORTED (I checked) > but after I submit $SORTED to for ... they are gone. I will have to check > again. Maybe I'm just wasting time and should go directly for a Perl > solution. Maybe you should post the exact code that is causing the problem. The problem is not with "for". Do you get different results with: for file in $SORTED do printf "%s\n" "$file" done And: printf "%s\n" $SORTED If so, what are the differences? -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 20:13:07 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:13:07 -0400 Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040910201307.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 05:52:55PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Maybe I did not make myself clear: I do not get an error, some filenames > simply get eaten is $SORTED is long enough. They are in $SORTED (I > checked) but after I submit $SORTED to for ... they are gone. I will have > to check again. Maybe I'm just wasting time and should go directly for a > Perl solution. Does any of the filenames contain spaces? Your current solution would die on spaces for sure. > It should but it will get more complicated later, I will want to prune > certain filenames (intersect with a list and keep what is not in it). It > will probably be done in Perl later, I just tinker with the ideas for now. > I would like to know what's broken ? Perl may be simpler to start with then. Something like: find ... | perl, with perl eating filenames from stdin one per line would probably be better. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 11 03:30:32 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:30:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: <20040910201307.GG8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040910201307.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 05:52:55PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> Maybe I did not make myself clear: I do not get an error, some filenames >> simply get eaten is $SORTED is long enough. They are in $SORTED (I >> checked) but after I submit $SORTED to for ... they are gone. I will have >> to check again. Maybe I'm just wasting time and should go directly for a >> Perl solution. > > Does any of the filenames contain spaces? Your current solution would > die on spaces for sure. No spaces in there. >> It should but it will get more complicated later, I will want to prune >> certain filenames (intersect with a list and keep what is not in it). It >> will probably be done in Perl later, I just tinker with the ideas for now. >> I would like to know what's broken ? > > Perl may be simpler to start with then. Something like: find ... | > perl, with perl eating filenames from stdin one per line would probably > be better. Yes, it is going there. I tried to do it in shell because it looked short and straightforward (famous last words). In the for ... loop I call an external application for each file. I don't know whether Perl will like this more than bash. I will do some timing tests to find out. I do not need the program to be fast and I very much prefer it to be terse since it will change a lot. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 11 03:27:58 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 23:27:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash limits ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > Maybe you should post the exact code that is causing the > problem. The problem is not with "for". > > Do you get different results with: > > for file in $SORTED > do > printf "%s\n" "$file" > done > > And: > > printf "%s\n" $SORTED > > If so, what are the differences? Thanks for the idea, I will check it out but it will take a while. I am doing something else now. Maybe tomorrow. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 20:56:52 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:56:52 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <4140CE20.1050701@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200409101656.52314.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Friday 10 September 2004 05:59 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: > An example of a rescue disk on steroids is knoppix ;-) > > Peter I am missing something here. The original problem that suggested the use of a rescue disk was to re-establish my hda5 that was shifted to hda6 by having added a FAT32 logical partition ahead of the hda5. How would knoppix know where the /etc/fstab of my corrupted system is to be found? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 21:10:25 2004 From: agtnews-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Allen Taylor) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 17:10:25 -0400 Subject: Stupid SSH tricks In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121E9CD-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121E9CD@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <20040910211025.GA5528@free.lan> On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 01:19:09PM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > I have these idiots who are using a brute force attach on ssh to gain > access to the system. They try over and over again with different ip > addresses. > > Is there any way to block an ip address after it has failed a certain > number of attempts or do I have write my own script for this? > I'm being hit the same way from China and Ireland, although a little more sporadic. I've blocked port 22 inbound for now since I'm the only one that uses it - you may not have that option. I was wondering if one could rate limit SSH accesses through iptables? (i.e. after 3 new port 22 connections in a 5 minute period, limit to 1 every two minutes for next hour - so I can still get in with a bit of patience but would really slow down brute force attacks.) Just a thought - I'm still at the very basic stage with iptables. Allen [Apologies if this is a duplicate - I replied originally from another email address and it (so far - 2+ hours) has not come thru. This address is the one I'm subscribed under.] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 22:47:59 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 18:47:59 -0400 Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409101656.52314.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <4140CE20.1050701@rogers.com> <200409101656.52314.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Sep 2004 16:56:52 -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > I am missing something here. The original problem that suggested the use of a > rescue disk was to re-establish my hda5 that was shifted to hda6 by having > added a FAT32 logical partition ahead of the hda5. > How would knoppix know where the /etc/fstab of my corrupted system is to be > found? It wouldn't. But YOU would. So YOU go in and find your fstab, and adjust it appropriately. Don't forget to also adjust your bootlloader. A rescue disk in this sense is nothing more than a failsafe way to bootstrap your computer such that you can fix problems with your configuration. And yes, a floppy is stil an option. It's disturbing what they still manage to fit into Tom's rootboot: http://www.toms.net/rb/ -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 10 19:52:10 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 10 Sep 2004 21:52:10 +0200 Subject: konq opens at logon In-Reply-To: References: <413F6BC7.10701@onlink.net> <4386c5b20409082014721d06f0@mail.gmail.com> <41413A15.1050401@onlink.net> Message-ID: <414205EA.9070604@onlink.net> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Peter L. Peres wrote: >> >> ~. However, the script or whatever must be giving instructions to >> open /cdrom/index.html, which is then opened (by default) by >> Konqueror. So, I think I need to know where this script or command is >> and kill it. > > > I don't remember where konq is started. I remember I got rid of it > after a while. It could be in Kde startup folder. Thank you. You're right -- it was in /home/[user]/kde/Autostart. I deleted it, logged on again and it's not coming up anymore. Thanks, Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 11 05:17:36 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 01:17:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: XP and Linux In-Reply-To: <200409101656.52314.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409091258.54512.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <4140CE20.1050701@rogers.com> <200409101656.52314.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > On Friday 10 September 2004 05:59 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: > >> An example of a rescue disk on steroids is knoppix ;-) >> >> Peter > I am missing something here. The original problem that suggested the use of a > rescue disk was to re-establish my hda5 that was shifted to hda6 by having > added a FAT32 logical partition ahead of the hda5. > How would knoppix know where the /etc/fstab of my corrupted system is to be > found? knoppix does not know but usually it's the first non-windoze partition in the list of partitions and knoppix has all the tools you need to do it, including making icons for all prtitions found so you can look for yourself using the gui desktop. Then you open an editor and edit it. Running lilo requires opening a shell of course. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 11 08:37:28 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 11 Sep 2004 04:37:28 -0400 Subject: OT: song/recording charts/databases on the web ? In-Reply-To: <200409100740.56577.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040910042726.GC16517@m1800> <200409100740.56577.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040911083728.GA18263@m1800> On Fri, Sep 10, 2004 at 07:40:56AM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote > > http://www.allmusic.com > > This site has separate portals for classical, jazz, etc. > > I consider it the IMDB of music. Cross-references collaborators: > producers, accompanying musicians, songwriters. Thanks. I had problems with it originally. The keyboard flat out did not work. Their FAQ mentioned that they were optimized for IE 5.5. So I entered the following line in FireFox's user.js... user_pref("general.useragent.override", "Mozilla/5.0 (compatible; MSIE5.5; Windows 98;"); ...and it worked like a charm. Hey, I'm drifting back on topic for this mailing list; is that allowed? Anyhow, I stumbled across another helpful site. For anyone who's interested, the URL is... http://www.musicweb.uk.net/encyclopaedia/ -- Walter Dnes There are three types of people; - Those who can count - Those who can't -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 12 20:00:04 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:00:04 -0400 Subject: Announcement: TLUG Meeting: Sept 14, 2004. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040912200004.GA455@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 05:18:56PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote: > Details: > > Bash-3.0 was released recently. Two notable additions from > Bash-2.05b are regex test '=~' in [[...]] and integer sequence > generator {x..y}. Bash patch written by William Park > http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ > http://freshmeat.net/projects/basp/ > extends Bash's capability even more, giving other modern scripting > languages a run for their money. > > His patch incorporates many useful features from Awk, Python, Zsh, > Ksh, and others. In the main core, it adds the following: > - new brace expansion {a..b} > - new parameter expansion ${var|...} > - new command substitution $(=...) > - string concatenation (+=) > - extended for, while, and until loops > - extended case statement > - new try-block with integer exception. Update: - string concatenation has been moved to builtin as part of strcat(3) emulation. - new <<+ here-document - more ${var|...} operators. > As builtin commands, it adds the following: > - extended set, read, echo builtins > - sscanf(3) wrapper > - variety of array and regex(3) operations > - GDBM, SQLite, PostgreSQL, and MySQL database interfaces > - an HTML template engine (BASP). Update: - all builtins are now dynamically loadable. Can also be statically linked, as one-in-one binary. - stack/queue operations (ie. pop, push, append, swap, rotate, ...) on positional parameters and arrays. - Expat XML parser interface - x-y character plot > He will give a quick tutorial on above features. People are > encouraged to try it out, and any feedback on possible > applications or feature requests are most welcome. Since > everything is online, there will be no handouts or projector. > Just chalk and blackboard. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 12 20:23:33 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 12 Sep 2004 16:23:33 -0400 Subject: Announcement: TLUG Meeting: Sept 14, 2004. In-Reply-To: <20040912200004.GA455-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040912200004.GA455@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4144B045.4070008@sympatico.ca> Sick mods there, William, but aren't we in danger of the following? $ bash --version | tr 'abhs' 'eplr' ;-) Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bharder-ZFrJ8mk64YU9Kz2/zmrLjA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 13 19:45:49 2004 From: bharder-ZFrJ8mk64YU9Kz2/zmrLjA at public.gmane.org (brad harder) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:45:49 -0700 Subject: Announcement: TLUG Meeting: Sept 14, 2004. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040913194549.GA6598@methodlogic.net> On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 05:18:56PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote: > Where: Room GB244, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ > > When: Sept 14, 2004. > > Speaker: William Park > > Topic: BASH > ...what time? -- -bch -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bharder-ZFrJ8mk64YU9Kz2/zmrLjA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 13 19:51:11 2004 From: bharder-ZFrJ8mk64YU9Kz2/zmrLjA at public.gmane.org (brad harder) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 12:51:11 -0700 Subject: Announcement: TLUG Meeting: Sept 14, 2004. In-Reply-To: <20040913194549.GA6598-ZFrJ8mk64YU9Kz2/zmrLjA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040913194549.GA6598@methodlogic.net> Message-ID: <20040913195111.GB6598@methodlogic.net> On Mon, Sep 13, 2004 at 12:45:49PM -0700, brad harder wrote: > On Tue, Sep 07, 2004 at 05:18:56PM +1000, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Where: Room GB244, Galbraith Building, University of Toronto > > For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ > > > > When: Sept 14, 2004. > > > > Speaker: William Park > > > > Topic: BASH > > > > ...what time? > ...never mind ;P TLUG meetings are held at UofT on the second Tuesday of each month at 7:30 pm. > -- > > -bch > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- -bch -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 00:14:37 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 20:14:37 -0400 Subject: 'rsync' and parent directory question Message-ID: <414637ED.5010703@alteeve.com> Hi all, Is there a way to tell 'rsync' to duplicate the parent directory of a file MINUS the mount point? For example, say I have a filesystem mounted at: /mnt/dir1/ and within it I have a subdirectory like: /mnt/dir1/path/to/file.txt and I want to copy 'file.txt' to another mounted filesystem mounted at: /mnt/dir2/ while preserving the parent dir: /path/to So that I get: /mnt/dir2/path/to/file.txt How could I do this? As I understand it by using '-R' (relative) 'rsync' will create: /mnt/dir2/mnt/dir1/path/to/file.txt This obviosuly is cumbersome and ugly. Have I understood this wrong or missed an obvious solution? I hope not, I would feel foolish if I did. :p Thanks as always! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 01:03:32 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2004 21:03:32 -0400 Subject: 'rsync' and parent directory question In-Reply-To: <414637ED.5010703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414637ED.5010703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <41464364.20803@alteeve.com> o.O As is often the case, I ask a question and then I find an answer... *sigh*... For the record; If you use the '--files-from=' switch '--relative' will create the parent dirs in the destination relative to the directories in the file and ignore directories behind the source directory used when 'rsync' was called. For example, if in my 'copy.txt' file I had: path/to/file.txt and I called 'rsync' using (many switches ignored): $ rsync --files-from=copy.txt /mnt/dir1 /mnt/dir2 'rsync' would create: /mnt/dir2/path/to/file.txt I haven't tested this yet but if I got this wrong somehow I'll report back. Thanks all! Madison Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > Is there a way to tell 'rsync' to duplicate the parent directory of a > file MINUS the mount point? For example, say I have a filesystem mounted > at: > > /mnt/dir1/ > > and within it I have a subdirectory like: > > /mnt/dir1/path/to/file.txt > > and I want to copy 'file.txt' to another mounted filesystem mounted at: > > /mnt/dir2/ > > while preserving the parent dir: > > /path/to > > So that I get: > > /mnt/dir2/path/to/file.txt > > How could I do this? As I understand it by using '-R' (relative) > 'rsync' will create: > > /mnt/dir2/mnt/dir1/path/to/file.txt > > This obviosuly is cumbersome and ugly. Have I understood this wrong or > missed an obvious solution? I hope not, I would feel foolish if I did. :p > > Thanks as always! > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 09:55:20 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 05:55:20 -0400 Subject: MySQL Message-ID: <200409140555.20600.wildberger@cogeco.ca> I have mysql installed . How does one find a database server that is willing to let me use its data base. Specifically I am interested in obtaining astronomy maps to be used in a program called Cartes du Ciel. I have the mysql running and in konsole mode it displays that it is listening on port 3292. But nothing is happening. Any idiea what to do? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 11:58:59 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:58:59 -0400 Subject: Free hardware at tonights TLUG meeting... References: <4386c5b204090820441dae326b@mail.gmail.com> <20040909112520.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <003501c49a52$38abde80$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Just to note, I will have some more hardware to give away at tonight's TLUG meeting. While this may not be the best of stuff, I hope and trust it will be of interest Also of note among the stuff I will be giving away will be some equipment that was PRODUCTION hardware during the first few years of the Toronto Free-Net, if you want to know more come and hear what I expect will be a very interesting talk by William Park (who has worked with/for the Toronto Free-Net). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 13:11:06 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 09:11:06 -0400 Subject: MySQL In-Reply-To: <200409140555.20600.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409140555.20600.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20040914131106.65189409B@cbbrowne.com> > I have mysql installed . How does one find a database server that is willing > to let me use its data base. Specifically I am interested in obtaining > astronomy maps to be used in a program called Cartes du Ciel. > I have the mysql running and in konsole mode it displays that it is listening > on port 3292. But nothing is happening. > Any idiea what to do? YOU are the one that has to populate your database system with the data that you want. It won't magically download data from elsewhere on the Internet (although MySQL AB might promise that as a feature for version 5.2...) You have to find the data that you want, make sure it is in a form that can be loaded into the database, and then submit it to your database. Until you set up some tables (CREATE TABLE) and insert data into them (INSERT), the database will remain idle. -- If this was helpful, rate me http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/rdbms.html "You can only examine 10 levels of pushdown, because that's all the fingers you have to stick in the listing." -- Anonymous programmer - "TOPS-10 Crash Analysis Guide" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 14:04:09 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Need help for info to build a CAD workstation. In-Reply-To: <20040914131106.65189409B-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914131106.65189409B@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20040914140409.90534.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I am building a computer like this: INTEL SE7525GP2 MOTHERBOARD MAX 8GB with PCI EXPRESS 16X(INTEL 915P can install only 3GB memory. ) INTEL XEON 2.8GHZ 800 FSB CPU 4 X 1GB DDR PC2700 333MHZ MEMORY ATI FIREGL V7100 VIDEO CARD(PCI EXPRESS) SATA 40GB HARD DRIVE CD ROM KEY BOARD 19" CRT FLAT MONITOR Anyone who has infomation to buy these parts in Toronto, also any better ideas to build a computer for CAD will be appreciated. Frank Peng. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 14:24:22 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:24:22 -0400 Subject: Need help for info to build a CAD workstation. In-Reply-To: <20040914140409.90534.qmail-YNRCQF/y8RGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914131106.65189409B@cbbrowne.com> <20040914140409.90534.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Having worked on (sort of) CAD stations for many years, I would strongly suggest running a dual video (2 monitors) setup. Another thing is to use 2 identical monitors. I've worked in situations with a large (main) and smaller (secondary) monitor (obviously suggested by a non-CAD operator), that is very annoying! :-) That's about all I can say... you seem to have the speed and memory angle covered. I would however add maybe a larger hard drive (>100GB) and also at least a CD-RW or even DVD-RW for transferring larger files from the station. Also on the monitor issue, make sure it can support 1600x1200 resolution at a good refresh rate (at least 85Hz). You might want to go to 21" as well. On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 07:04:09 -0700 (PDT), Frank Peng wrote: > Hi, > > I am building a computer like this: > > INTEL SE7525GP2 MOTHERBOARD MAX 8GB with PCI EXPRESS > 16X(INTEL 915P can install only 3GB memory. ) > INTEL XEON 2.8GHZ 800 FSB CPU > 4 X 1GB DDR PC2700 333MHZ MEMORY > ATI FIREGL V7100 VIDEO CARD(PCI EXPRESS) > SATA 40GB HARD DRIVE > CD ROM > KEY BOARD > 19" CRT FLAT MONITOR > > Anyone who has infomation to buy these parts in > Toronto, also any better ideas to build a computer for > CAD will be appreciated. > > Frank Peng. > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! > http://vote.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 15:15:56 2004 From: b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B Arquette) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:15:56 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: References: <20040909232030.96DD26DA70@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: > ...it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but > I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this > doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? > > I saw a couple for cheap at factorydirect.ca > > Sid Okay if you want to go cheap, I really don't recommend this but it has worked for me for the last 3 years you can buy an used UPS at a surplus shops. I bought 2 APC UPS for about 45 dollars at Above All on Bloor back in early 2001 and since then even with the really bad power flux in my apt building I have had no trouble at all. Now you are buying "used" and you can't spell abused without u-s-e-d, however if your really pinching pennies. B. -- Occational Random Thoughts brought to you at barquette.blogspot.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 15:28:29 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 11:28:29 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: References: <20040909232030.96DD26DA70@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <41470E1D.3040101@rogers.com> B Arquette wrote: >>...it was probably a power surge. Currently, I have a power bar, but >>I am told that this is not enough. What should I get to ensure this >>doesn't happen again? What does everyone here use? >> >>I saw a couple for cheap at factorydirect.ca >> >>Sid > > > Okay if you want to go cheap, I really don't recommend this but it has > worked for me for the last 3 years you can buy an used UPS at a > surplus shops. I bought 2 APC UPS for about 45 dollars at Above All > on Bloor back in early 2001 and since then even with the really bad > power flux in my apt building I have had no trouble at all. Now you > are buying "used" and you can't spell abused without u-s-e-d, however > if your really pinching pennies. By checking the ads, you can often buy new ones, for not much more than that. I have bought a couple of new 500 VA APCs for $50 each, at Staples. They are also supported in Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 16:25:28 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:25:28 -0400 Subject: Power Surge Protection In-Reply-To: References: <20040909232030.96DD26DA70@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040914162528.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 11:15:56AM -0400, B Arquette wrote: > Okay if you want to go cheap, I really don't recommend this but it has > worked for me for the last 3 years you can buy an used UPS at a > surplus shops. I bought 2 APC UPS for about 45 dollars at Above All > on Bloor back in early 2001 and since then even with the really bad > power flux in my apt building I have had no trouble at all. Now you > are buying "used" and you can't spell abused without u-s-e-d, however > if your really pinching pennies. Batteries in APCs in my experience tend to last 2 to 4 years. So used tends to mean: expect to buy a new battery soon. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 17:06:48 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:06:48 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 4GB memory for Windows: just waste money? In-Reply-To: <20040914162350.GH8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914162350.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040914170648.7219.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> Lennart, I thought Windows is 32bit OS. So it should be using 4GB memory instead of you said 3GB memory. If that is true, I should back off to INTEL 915P which has PCI Express port to drive ATI FIREGL V7100. I know I should live with PNY FX3000/4000/3400. But look at the price, it kills me instantly. Should I live with 128MB PNY rather than 256MB ATI. They claim the 3D performance is 8.0GB/sec and it is certified with OPEN GL and DirectX9.0. ATI really scares? ATI is a Canadian company. I wish them make some money! Thanks for any help! Frank Peng. --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 07:04:09AM -0700, Frank Peng > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am building a computer like this: > > > > INTEL SE7525GP2 MOTHERBOARD MAX 8GB with PCI > EXPRESS > > Hard to find I suspect. I only found an online > dealer with a quick > search based in texas: www.neqx.com > > > 16X(INTEL 915P can install only 3GB memory. ) > > Remember, that no single application can use more > than 3GB in general > unless the OS and application and system are all > 64bit. > > > INTEL XEON 2.8GHZ 800 FSB CPU > > Hmm, the 800FSB looks hard to find so far, except > from the places that > have that motherboard. > > > 4 X 1GB DDR PC2700 333MHZ MEMORY > > I think that should be possible to find. > > > ATI FIREGL V7100 VIDEO CARD(PCI EXPRESS) > > If I was building a CAD system I would want very > good OpenGL support, > and would get a Quadro FX based card (like the PNY > cards). ATI screwed > me with driver support once too many in my lifetime. > > > SATA 40GB HARD DRIVE > > I agree with the other suggestion of a sensible HD > size. 160G is about > 85cents/GB now. 40GB is more like $1.50/GB. The > larger disk is faster > too. > > > CD ROM > > or DVD-ROM or DVD+/-RW (they can be gotten for > $130). Given what the > rest of that system will cost, why frustrate > yourself being unable to > save files on disc for people, and do backups. > > > KEY BOARD > > Trivial to find. :) Can I suggest a nice optical > usb mouse too? > Logitechs are nice and are pretty cheap. > > > 19" CRT FLAT MONITOR > > ViewSonic P95f+ is very nice in my opinion > (1600x1200 at 85HZ) 19" and > cheap too (about $300 should be possible to find). > Heck get two. > > > Anyone who has infomation to buy these parts in > > Toronto, also any better ideas to build a computer > for > > CAD will be appreciated. > > Where to get a board like that I am not sure. > > Looks like building an AGP system is still easier > unfortunately (until > Athlon64 systems get PCIe). I suspect in terms of > availability a Dual > opteron would be easier to build than a dual xeon. > For many > applications fast too. :) Good luck with finding > those parts. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 16:23:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 12:23:50 -0400 Subject: Need help for info to build a CAD workstation. In-Reply-To: <20040914140409.90534.qmail-YNRCQF/y8RGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914131106.65189409B@cbbrowne.com> <20040914140409.90534.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040914162350.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 07:04:09AM -0700, Frank Peng wrote: > Hi, > > I am building a computer like this: > > INTEL SE7525GP2 MOTHERBOARD MAX 8GB with PCI EXPRESS Hard to find I suspect. I only found an online dealer with a quick search based in texas: www.neqx.com > 16X(INTEL 915P can install only 3GB memory. ) Remember, that no single application can use more than 3GB in general unless the OS and application and system are all 64bit. > INTEL XEON 2.8GHZ 800 FSB CPU Hmm, the 800FSB looks hard to find so far, except from the places that have that motherboard. > 4 X 1GB DDR PC2700 333MHZ MEMORY I think that should be possible to find. > ATI FIREGL V7100 VIDEO CARD(PCI EXPRESS) If I was building a CAD system I would want very good OpenGL support, and would get a Quadro FX based card (like the PNY cards). ATI screwed me with driver support once too many in my lifetime. > SATA 40GB HARD DRIVE I agree with the other suggestion of a sensible HD size. 160G is about 85cents/GB now. 40GB is more like $1.50/GB. The larger disk is faster too. > CD ROM or DVD-ROM or DVD+/-RW (they can be gotten for $130). Given what the rest of that system will cost, why frustrate yourself being unable to save files on disc for people, and do backups. > KEY BOARD Trivial to find. :) Can I suggest a nice optical usb mouse too? Logitechs are nice and are pretty cheap. > 19" CRT FLAT MONITOR ViewSonic P95f+ is very nice in my opinion (1600x1200 at 85HZ) 19" and cheap too (about $300 should be possible to find). Heck get two. > Anyone who has infomation to buy these parts in > Toronto, also any better ideas to build a computer for > CAD will be appreciated. Where to get a board like that I am not sure. Looks like building an AGP system is still easier unfortunately (until Athlon64 systems get PCIe). I suspect in terms of availability a Dual opteron would be easier to build than a dual xeon. For many applications fast too. :) Good luck with finding those parts. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 17:24:23 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 13:24:23 -0400 Subject: 4GB memory for Windows: just waste money? In-Reply-To: <20040914170648.7219.qmail-w3ZKjPtRs+CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914162350.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040914170648.7219.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 14 Sep 2004 10:06:48 -0700 (PDT), Frank Peng wrote: > Lennart, > > I thought Windows is 32bit OS. So it should be using > 4GB memory instead of you said 3GB memory. Windows will make use of all 4GB of RAM, but any SINGLE application cannot, because part of the 4GB address space allocated to each process is taken by the system (buffers, system calls, etc). Even Linux has to deal with this kind of thing, though there are options when compiling your kernel that you can tweak if you know that you'll be using a lot of RAM (e.g. database applications), and you can get up to 3.5GB of application RAM this way. There are 32-bit machines that can take more than 4GB of RAM, by using a bank switching scheme. This is analogous to the old EMS/XMS memory extenders in use in the old 16-bit DOS days. Getting more than 3/3.5/4GB of RAM _per_application_ is one of the big reasons for going to 64-bit in this day and age. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 20:20:06 2004 From: mikemacleod-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael MacLeod) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 16:20:06 -0400 Subject: Hello All Message-ID: Hello, I'm new to Toronto from Nova Scotia, and I'm looking forward to a LUG that consists of more than just a mailing list like NSLUG. As I'm new to Toronto, I have a couple of questions that I figure some of the locals on this list might be able to help me out with. Firstly, I'm looking into taking a Cisco CCNA course and I'm curious what peoples experiences with the various places that offer them have been. Are there any institutions that do an especially good job of teaching the Cisco material? I'm looking for something like a two month course, although good options for two week boot camp style courses would also be useful. Are there any places I should avoid like the plague? And secondly, now that I'm moved into Toronto I need a job. I'm fairly skilled with computers in general, and linux especially (been running Crux [www.crux.nu] exclusively for about four years now), but I don't really have any pieces of paper to prove any of this (see above). What's the best way to go about getting an entry level position in town? I'd rather work tech support than flip burgers... peace Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 21:21:17 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 17:21:17 -0400 Subject: Hello All In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414760CD.7040404@rogers.com> Michael MacLeod wrote: > And secondly, now that I'm moved into Toronto I need a job. I'm > fairly skilled with computers in general, and linux especially (been > running Crux [www.crux.nu] exclusively for about four years now), but > I don't really have any pieces of paper to prove any of this (see > above). What's the best way to go about getting an entry level > position in town? I'd rather work tech support than flip burgers... When you've got that figured out, let us know too. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 14 22:24:45 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 18:24:45 -0400 Subject: 4GB memory for Windows: just waste money? In-Reply-To: <20040914170648.7219.qmail-w3ZKjPtRs+CA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914162350.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040914170648.7219.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 10:06:48AM -0700, Frank Peng wrote: > I thought Windows is 32bit OS. So it should be using > 4GB memory instead of you said 3GB memory. Windows 32bit can give you a 4GB memory space, of which on most OSs the top 1 or 2G is reserved for PCI mapping and the OS itself. It can actually access more than 4GB using a system called PAE which allows up to 64GB. You still only get 4GB memory space as far as an application can tell, and it still is limited by what part of the 4GB memory space the OS lets the application have. It used to be 2GB application/2GB OS, but most have switched to 3GB/1GB to let larger applications run. basically you can run multiple applications on an 8GB machine with 32bit windows and use 2 or 3GB per application, although you do get a small performance hit when you pass 4GB since the system has to start using memory mapping to get the ram above 4GB mapped into the lower 4GB (it essentially swaps segments of memory in and out of the lower 4GB memory space on the fly). 64bit windows (em64t/x86-64 compatible) can access lots of ram directly and can give each application (64bit applications that is) all the ram they want. > If that is true, I should back off to INTEL 915P which > has PCI Express port to drive ATI FIREGL V7100. > > I know I should live with PNY FX3000/4000/3400. But > look at the price, it kills me instantly. Should I > live with 128MB PNY rather than 256MB ATI. They claim > the 3D performance is 8.0GB/sec and it is certified > with OPEN GL and DirectX9.0. ATI really scares? In general ATI has slightly better Direct3D than nvidia, and nvidia has better OpenGL than ATI. And the price of a video card worries you while you are looing at a Xeon? What's the Xeon for? The Xeon has larger cache, slower ram (wby quite a bit) and costs a fortune. Why would anyone buy that? Even the P4EE makes more sense than a Xeon for most single cpu systems, and I don't even think that one makes much sense. Have you looked at benchmarks of different cpus for the applications you intend to run? Is the Xeon good at that application? Well i suppose the PNY cards can be a bit expensive, although I thought some of the lower end cards weren't that bad. I hope PCIe becomes mature and available soon, because so far I am not convinced it is ready yet. Not enough decent motherboards and chipsets with support for it. > ATI is a Canadian company. I wish them make some > money! Well I have bought many cards from them. I got sufficiently annoyed when a 3 year old card could no longer get working drivers for Windows. They have had badly broken driver releases for some cards for even something as new as XP in the last few years. Basically ATI has excelent hardware with lousy software support behind it. Just because they are Canadian doesn't mean they can get away with providing users with junk. It's not like Matrox is selling that much lately either (lack of open soruce specs seems to be hurting some too). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 03:56:36 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Tue, 14 Sep 2004 23:56:36 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem Message-ID: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> Hi everyone, I've got an odd mail problem that I'm not sure how to solve. Somewhere between my laptop and my mailserver (incoming) any message that I send to myself is disappearing. This mail does not arrive back at my laptop: Sep 14 23:27:18 smeagol postfix/smtp[2783]: A8A8E3A5CA: to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=11, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 8718117C10D) This mail arrives safely: Sep 14 23:36:43 smeagol postfix/smtp[3454]: ED4D93A5CA: to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=9, status=sent (250 Ok: queued as D53B717C260) I haven't changed any of my filters or settings in a dog's age, but for some reason, I can't receive a message that I send to myself (and mailman doesn't acknowledge any mail that I try to send it, even though my other list administrators are having absolutely no problems). The server is running Debian with Postfix for mail; my ISP is IStop. Does anyone have any ideas of where I should be looking to solve this problem? thanks, emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 04:25:53 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:25:53 +0800 Subject: Viewing web services inside LAN via Internet Message-ID: <200409151225.53382.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi, is it possible to view a web service sitting inside our LAN via internet sample setup boxA (with global IP and LAN IP) boxB (LAN IP only) - this is where the Web service sits. boxA and boxB are connected via the same segment of LAN IP. Thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 04:52:13 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 00:52:13 -0400 Subject: Viewing web services inside LAN via Internet In-Reply-To: <200409151225.53382.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200409151225.53382.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <4147CA7D.90503@alteeve.com> Yes it is but you will need to either setup your own DNS server or keep a copy of a 'hosts' file with the INTERNAL IP of the servers. This is why: When your client calls the webserver it does so under normal circumstances using it's public IP address. The web server then sees that the requesting computer is in it's private IP subnet and responds using it's own private IP. The client computer sees the webserver as responding with it's internal IP, notes that it made the request to the external IP, and ignores the responce thinking that it is the wrong server answering. To get around this you can either put the web server on a seperate subnet from the LAN clients and route through a router/firewall with three NICs; one for the Internet, one for the web-server subnet and one for the LAN client subnet. I personally use this because once it's up it is the simplest to maintain. You second option is to set up your DNS server (assuming you are using your own) to give the LAN-side IP of the server to clients withing the same subnet while giving the web server's public IP to any other client outside the subnet. The last option which is the easiest to get going but the hardest to maintain is to keep a copy of the 'hosts' file (in /etc/hosts for most Linux distros) which translates the web-server's name to it's internal IP so that each client never even tries DNS to get the IP ('hosts' is always checked before DNS is). Keep in mind that you will need to keep each 'sub.domain.tld' in the hosts file. Hope that helps! Madison JM wrote: > Hi, > is it possible to view a web service sitting inside our LAN via internet > > sample setup > > boxA (with global IP and LAN IP) > > boxB (LAN IP only) - this is where the Web service sits. > > boxA and boxB are connected via the same segment of LAN IP. > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 05:12:46 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 01:12:46 -0400 Subject: Viewing web services inside LAN via Internet In-Reply-To: <200409151225.53382.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200409151225.53382.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <4147CF4E.2080908@almatau.com> JM wrote: > Hi, > is it possible to view a web service sitting inside our LAN via internet > > sample setup > > boxA (with global IP and LAN IP) > > boxB (LAN IP only) - this is where the Web service sits. > > boxA and boxB are connected via the same segment of LAN IP. > > > Thanks, Yes, you just need to create rules for network address and port translation on box A. For iptables see DNAT (forward traffic from BoxA:80 to BoxB:80). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 05:22:39 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 01:22:39 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> Message-ID: <4147D19F.1090302@almatau.com> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I've got an odd mail problem that I'm not sure how to solve. Somewhere > between my laptop and my mailserver (incoming) any message that I send to > myself is disappearing. > > This mail does not arrive back at my laptop: > Sep 14 23:27:18 smeagol postfix/smtp[2783]: A8A8E3A5CA: > to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=11, > status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 8718117C10D) > > This mail arrives safely: > Sep 14 23:36:43 smeagol postfix/smtp[3454]: ED4D93A5CA: > to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=9, > status=sent (250 Ok: queued as D53B717C260) > > I haven't changed any of my filters or settings in a dog's age, but for > some reason, I can't receive a message that I send to myself (and mailman > doesn't acknowledge any mail that I try to send it, even though my other > list administrators are having absolutely no problems). The server is > running Debian with Postfix for mail; my ISP is IStop. > > Does anyone have any ideas of where I should be looking to solve this > problem? > What's in log files on mail.xtrinsic.com? > thanks, > emma > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 11:14:14 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 04:14:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040914222445.GJ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> Anybody has played with 64-bit CPU? How about the motherboard and other hardware? How Windows support 64-bit and how about other applications support 64-bit environment? Thanks a lot! --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 10:06:48AM -0700, Frank Peng > wrote: > > I thought Windows is 32bit OS. So it should be > using > > 4GB memory instead of you said 3GB memory. > > Windows 32bit can give you a 4GB memory space, of > which on most OSs the > top 1 or 2G is reserved for PCI mapping and the OS > itself. It can > actually access more than 4GB using a system called > PAE which allows up > to 64GB. You still only get 4GB memory space as far > as an application > can tell, and it still is limited by what part of > the 4GB memory space > the OS lets the application have. It used to be 2GB > application/2GB OS, > but most have switched to 3GB/1GB to let larger > applications run. > basically you can run multiple applications on an > 8GB machine with 32bit > windows and use 2 or 3GB per application, although > you do get a small > performance hit when you pass 4GB since the system > has to start using > memory mapping to get the ram above 4GB mapped into > the lower 4GB (it > essentially swaps segments of memory in and out of > the lower 4GB memory > space on the fly). 64bit windows (em64t/x86-64 > compatible) can access > lots of ram directly and can give each application > (64bit applications > that is) all the ram they want. > > > If that is true, I should back off to INTEL 915P > which > > has PCI Express port to drive ATI FIREGL V7100. > > > > I know I should live with PNY FX3000/4000/3400. > But > > look at the price, it kills me instantly. Should I > > live with 128MB PNY rather than 256MB ATI. They > claim > > the 3D performance is 8.0GB/sec and it is > certified > > with OPEN GL and DirectX9.0. ATI really scares? > > In general ATI has slightly better Direct3D than > nvidia, and nvidia has > better OpenGL than ATI. And the price of a video > card worries you while > you are looing at a Xeon? What's the Xeon for? The > Xeon has larger > cache, slower ram (wby quite a bit) and costs a > fortune. Why would > anyone buy that? Even the P4EE makes more sense > than a Xeon for most > single cpu systems, and I don't even think that one > makes much sense. > Have you looked at benchmarks of different cpus for > the applications you > intend to run? Is the Xeon good at that > application? Well i suppose > the PNY cards can be a bit expensive, although I > thought some of the > lower end cards weren't that bad. > > I hope PCIe becomes mature and available soon, > because so far I am not > convinced it is ready yet. Not enough decent > motherboards and chipsets > with support for it. > > > ATI is a Canadian company. I wish them make some > > money! > > Well I have bought many cards from them. I got > sufficiently annoyed > when a 3 year old card could no longer get working > drivers for Windows. > They have had badly broken driver releases for some > cards for even > something as new as XP in the last few years. > > Basically ATI has excelent hardware with lousy > software support behind > it. > > Just because they are Canadian doesn't mean they can > get away with > providing users with junk. It's not like Matrox is > selling that much > lately either (lack of open soruce specs seems to be > hurting some too). > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 13:47:16 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 09:47:16 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040915111414.14007.qmail-O/cPtvXj38GA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:14:14AM -0700, Frank Peng wrote: > Anybody has played with 64-bit CPU? > How about the motherboard and other hardware? > How Windows support 64-bit and how about other > applications support 64-bit environment? My wife's laptop has an athlon 64 which so far has 32bit debian i386, 32bit windows xp and 64bit windows xp on it. So far no problems with any of them, other than a lack of broadcom wireless drivers for 64bit xp. We haven't tried the 64bit debian on it yet, although sometime soon we will. Debian has about 97% of the packages built native 64bit for it, and the support for mixed 32/64bit is getting close to ready. Of course memory wise most applications don't need to be 64bit, while some do gain in speed by running 64bit (apparently from what I have read, up to 50% speed gain on the athlon 64 in some cases when running 64bit mode. I guess some code really likes being run in 64bit mode.) Basically the athlon 64 is a very good cpu for 32bit x86 code, and an even better cpu for 64bit x86 code. Better than anything else currently avaialble for x86. intel's em64t extensions for 64bit memory space (copying amd's instructions) provide binary compatibility, but unfortunately none of the performance gains (often a small loss of performance actually, except for programs that really need the extra memory to perform well.) It seems they tacked the instruction set on top of the same 32bit design the chips have been all along. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 14:31:19 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:31:19 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <4147D19F.1090302-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> <4147D19F.1090302@almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040915143119.GD16666@smeagol> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 01:22:39AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > >I haven't changed any of my filters or settings in a dog's age, but for > >some reason, I can't receive a message that I send to myself (and mailman > >doesn't acknowledge any mail that I try to send it, even though my other > >list administrators are having absolutely no problems). The server is > >running Debian with Postfix for mail; my ISP is IStop. > > > What's in log files on mail.xtrinsic.com? Nothing...it doesn't get that far. Either the mail goes through successfully, or it doesn't show up. -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 16:16:50 2004 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 12:16:50 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040915134716.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Of course >memory wise most applications don't need to be 64bit, while some do gain >in speed by running 64bit (apparently from what I have read, up to 50% >speed gain on the athlon 64 in some cases when running 64bit mode. I >guess some code really likes being run in 64bit mode.) > > x86-64 has many more registers, hence the performance improvement for programs that don't need the extra addess space or 64 bit integer computations. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 17:13:18 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 13:13:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <41486AF2.1000305-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Andrej Marjan wrote: > x86-64 has many more registers, hence the performance improvement for > programs that don't need the extra addess space or 64 bit integer > computations. That may not be the full story, though, because the Pentium and its descendants have long had more registers internally than the architecture officially specified. They're internal temporaries, used for things like pipelining, but some work at Bell Labs indicated that you can get quite good code for those machines by slicing off a 32-word piece of memory and pretending it's registers, because the "register renaming" trickery hidden inside the hardware more or less makes it so. (Code from compilers which don't take this approach might not exploit the hardware fully, however.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dkreuter-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 18:44:04 2004 From: dkreuter-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ at public.gmane.org (David Kreuter) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:44:04 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables Message-ID: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine using the internet through the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. If I directly connect the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows VPN client? Thanks, David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 18:55:50 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 14:55:50 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <41488D74.20107-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: <1095274550.4148903690ffa@www.almatau.com> Quoting David Kreuter : > Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed > 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is > on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine > using the internet through > the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. > > Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. > If I directly connect > the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. > > Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows > VPN client? > > Thanks, David > I've got the same problem, but with SonicWall VPN client. At the same time, PPTP VPN access works just fine. Spent some hours trying to find a solution, no success yet. There is must be a way to fix that. Small routers like Linksys have (as far as I know) Linux on board without any issues with VPN clients. Ilya. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:06:50 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:06:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <41488D74.20107-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, David Kreuter wrote: > Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed > 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is > on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine > using the internet through > the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. > > Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. > If I directly connect > the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. > > Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows > VPN client? David, This may be a shot in the dark, but I had to change the base address from my home network from 192.168.0.x to 192.168.5.x so that the home IP addresses didn't clash with the work network I'm accessing through a VPN (OpenVPN, natch), since the work network also uses 192.168.0.x. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dkreuter-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:20:40 2004 From: dkreuter-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ at public.gmane.org (David Kreuter) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:20:40 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: <41489608.6080904@vm-resources.com> Thanks - client network is on 10. though David talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, David Kreuter wrote: > > > >>Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed >>24.x.x.x. Other NIC is >>on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine >>using the internet through >>the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. >> >>Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. >>If I directly connect >>the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. >> >>Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows >>VPN client? >> >> > >David, > >This may be a shot in the dark, but I had to change the base address from >my home network from 192.168.0.x to 192.168.5.x so that the home IP >addresses didn't clash with the work network I'm accessing through a VPN >(OpenVPN, natch), since the work network also uses 192.168.0.x. > >Alex > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:24:25 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:24:25 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <41486AF2.1000305-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 12:16:50PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > >Of course > >memory wise most applications don't need to be 64bit, while some do gain > >in speed by running 64bit (apparently from what I have read, up to 50% > >speed gain on the athlon 64 in some cases when running 64bit mode. I > >guess some code really likes being run in 64bit mode.) > > > > > x86-64 has many more registers, hence the performance improvement for > programs that don't need the extra addess space or 64 bit integer > computations. Then why have people seen the Xeon em64t (nacoma?) slow down slightly instead? There has to be more to it than that. I guess for one, 64bit integer math can be done natively rather than whatever x86 used to do (I don't think x86 32bit chips have done 64bit addition and such natively, I figure they had some way around it that chopped it up and manipulated it a bit in the compiler.) Then again maybe it is just having a few more registers helping out, although the P6 architecture's register renaming (which has a lot more than 8 registers inside the chip) used in the speculative execution and out of order execution already helps many such programs run faster than they should on an 8 register architecture. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:28:11 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:28:11 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <41488D74.20107-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 02:44:04PM -0400, David Kreuter wrote: > Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed > 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is > on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine > using the internet through > the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. > > Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. > If I directly connect > the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. > > Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows > VPN client? Are you blocking any outbound traffic from the windows machine? I was under the impression that most vpn clients would work through NAT (or at least I have seen some that did, although I don't remember which). On the other hand IPsec does seem to include the IP of each end inside the packets, so having the wrong ip inside the packet compared to who the other end receives it from could be a problem. ipsec uses protocol ah, esp and udp port 500. In case that helps you at all. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:37:56 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:37:56 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040915192811.GM8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 02:44:04PM -0400, David Kreuter wrote: > > Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed > > 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is > > on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine > > using the internet through > > the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. > > > > Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. > > If I directly connect > > the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. > > > > Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows > > VPN client? > > Are you blocking any outbound traffic from the windows machine? I was > under the impression that most vpn clients would work through NAT (or at > least I have seen some that did, although I don't remember which). > > On the other hand IPsec does seem to include the IP of each end inside > the packets, so having the wrong ip inside the packet compared to who > the other end receives it from could be a problem. > > ipsec uses protocol ah, esp and udp port 500. In case that helps you at > all. Experimenting with my SonicWall VPN client, I allowed everything to/from my internal Windows machine. It didn't help. Windows firewall shows packets between ports 500 (I disabled this one too for tests), iptables logger shows activity as well. There is a traffic, but no VPN connection. Ilya. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:41:52 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:41:52 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <41488D74.20107-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: <41489B00.8040304@rogers.com> David Kreuter wrote: > Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed > 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is > on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine > using the internet through > the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. > > Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. > If I directly connect > the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. > Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows > VPN client? > There are two concerns. The first, is that the firewall should pass the VPN. You'll need to find out what port the VPN uses and verify that the firewall is passing it. The other, which may be more difficult to resolve, is that the VPN might not like going through address translation. However, I'm not familiar with the Cisco VPN, so I don't know if that is the case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:43:23 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:43:23 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <1095274550.4148903690ffa-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <1095274550.4148903690ffa@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040915194323.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 02:55:50PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting David Kreuter : > > > Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed > > 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is > > on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine > > using the internet through > > the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. > > > > Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. > > If I directly connect > > the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. > > > > Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows > > VPN client? > > > > Thanks, David > > > > I've got the same problem, but with SonicWall VPN client. At the same time, > PPTP VPN access works just fine. Spent some hours trying to find a solution, no > success yet. There is must be a way to fix that. Small routers like Linksys > have (as far as I know) Linux on board without any issues with VPN clients. Hmm, PPTP being rather insecure doesn't have a problem with NAT. ipsec seems like it might. I just found that the Shorewall (iptables script) says that with ipsec only one client behind the firewall can use ipsec at a time, and port udp 500 and protocol 50 have to be forwarded to that machine by the firewall. A bit of a pain I guess, but then again ipsec was meant to be used between machines that can ping each other both ways before establishing the tunnel. That kind of rules out NAT in between. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:44:16 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:44:16 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <1095277076.41489a145667b-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 03:37:56PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Experimenting with my SonicWall VPN client, I allowed everything to/from my > internal Windows machine. It didn't help. Windows firewall shows packets > between ports 500 (I disabled this one too for tests), iptables logger shows > activity as well. There is a traffic, but no VPN connection. Allow all port udp 500 and protocol 50/51 (normally 50) traffic and forward them to the inside machine. Then see if it works. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 19:53:08 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:53:08 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040915194416.GO8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 03:37:56PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > > Experimenting with my SonicWall VPN client, I allowed everything to/from > my > > internal Windows machine. It didn't help. Windows firewall shows packets > > between ports 500 (I disabled this one too for tests), iptables logger > shows > > activity as well. There is a traffic, but no VPN connection. > > Allow all port udp 500 and protocol 50/51 (normally 50) traffic and > forward them to the inside machine. Then see if it works. > I'll try that. Haven't touched protocol 50/51 yet, maybe that's the key. Thanks a lot, Ilya. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 20:05:30 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:05:30 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <1095277988.41489da482808-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: Yes, IIRC the thing to note is that's PROTOCOL 50/51, not PORT 50/51. IPSEC VPN packets aren't transmitted over TCP OR UDP, but use IP protocol numbers 50 and 51. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 20:12:05 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:12:05 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <1095277988.41489da482808-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040915201205.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 03:53:08PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > I'll try that. Haven't touched protocol 50/51 yet, maybe that's the key. Those protocols are the control channels for IPsec. At least on IPv4 they are. I think IPv6 has different protocol numbers for that purpose. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 20:13:51 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:13:51 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040915201351.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:05:30PM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > Yes, IIRC the thing to note is that's PROTOCOL 50/51, not PORT 50/51. IPSEC > VPN packets aren't transmitted over TCP OR UDP, but use IP protocol numbers > 50 and 51. The key exchange and data go over those protocols, the encrypted data is transfered over udp on port 500. This allows transfering udp traffic over ipsec without forcing reliable transmission, while tcp already handles retries if the udp tunnel drops anything. This is part of what makes ipsec better than an ssh tunnel or something, since that forces udp traffic to go over a reliable tunnel which isn't really what you want for udp data. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 20:27:39 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:27:39 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040915201351.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> <20040915201351.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4148A5BB.4080400@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:05:30PM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > >>Yes, IIRC the thing to note is that's PROTOCOL 50/51, not PORT 50/51. IPSEC >>VPN packets aren't transmitted over TCP OR UDP, but use IP protocol numbers >>50 and 51. > > > The key exchange and data go over those protocols, the encrypted data is > transfered over udp on port 500. This allows transfering udp traffic > over ipsec without forcing reliable transmission, while tcp already > handles retries if the udp tunnel drops anything. This is part of what > makes ipsec better than an ssh tunnel or something, since that forces > udp traffic to go over a reliable tunnel which isn't really what you > want for udp data. I use OpenVPN for my VPN. It uses UDP packets, though it can also use TCP. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 20:34:30 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:34:30 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <4148A5BB.4080400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> <20040915201351.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4148A5BB.4080400@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040915203430.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:27:39PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > >The key exchange and data go over those protocols, the encrypted data is > >transfered over udp on port 500. This allows transfering udp traffic > >over ipsec without forcing reliable transmission, while tcp already > >handles retries if the udp tunnel drops anything. This is part of what > >makes ipsec better than an ssh tunnel or something, since that forces > >udp traffic to go over a reliable tunnel which isn't really what you > >want for udp data. > > I use OpenVPN for my VPN. It uses UDP packets, though it can also use TCP. Is OpenVPN ipsec based or something else? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 20:40:41 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:40:41 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040915203430.GR8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> <20040915201351.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4148A5BB.4080400@rogers.com> <20040915203430.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4148A8C9.9050707@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:27:39PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >>>The key exchange and data go over those protocols, the encrypted data is >>>transfered over udp on port 500. This allows transfering udp traffic >>>over ipsec without forcing reliable transmission, while tcp already >>>handles retries if the udp tunnel drops anything. This is part of what >>>makes ipsec better than an ssh tunnel or something, since that forces >>>udp traffic to go over a reliable tunnel which isn't really what you >>>want for udp data. >> >>I use OpenVPN for my VPN. It uses UDP packets, though it can also use TCP. > > > Is OpenVPN ipsec based or something else? It's based on SSL. You can find more info here: http://openvpn.sourceforge.net/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 20:57:47 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 16:57:47 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040915194416.GO8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4148ACCB.8020803@istop.com> Isnt VPN using a protocol gre ? I had the problem with openBSD working as a firewall. openBSD by default does not allow to use gre protocol (Windows does). Linux probably does not either. zb. Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 03:37:56PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > >>Experimenting with my SonicWall VPN client, I allowed everything to/from my >>internal Windows machine. It didn't help. Windows firewall shows packets >>between ports 500 (I disabled this one too for tests), iptables logger shows >>activity as well. There is a traffic, but no VPN connection. > > > Allow all port udp 500 and protocol 50/51 (normally 50) traffic and > forward them to the inside machine. Then see if it works. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 21:01:43 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 17:01:43 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <4148ACCB.8020803-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4148ACCB.8020803@istop.com> Message-ID: <20040915210143.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:57:47PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Isnt VPN using a protocol gre ? I had the problem with openBSD working > as a firewall. openBSD by default does not allow to use gre protocol > (Windows does). Linux probably does not either. As far as I read, only some (cisco anyone?) implementations of ipsec try to do that. Not 100% sure though. Certainly I have run freeswan and openswan using just udp 500 and protocol 50/51. Even connecting to a cisco VPN concentrator that worked. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 22:03:33 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 15:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <20040915134716.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> Thank you guys enlighten me a lot. Now I decided to go for 64bit: Tyan 940 motherboard AGP8X 3.0 GHz Opteron 4GB memory ATI X2-256T video card 80GB SATA hard drive .... The fancy PCI-X ports, not PCI-Express, is useless for now. It is said AMD will make PCI-Express main board at 2005... __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 22:37:40 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:37:40 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040915201351.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915201351.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200409151837.40958.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 15, 2004 04:13 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 04:05:30PM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > > Yes, IIRC the thing to note is that's PROTOCOL 50/51, not PORT 50/51. > > ?IPSEC VPN packets aren't transmitted over TCP OR UDP, but use IP > > protocol numbers 50 and 51. > > The key exchange and data go over those protocols, the encrypted data is > transfered over udp on port 500. You have it backwards, or perhaps I'm just reading you backwards ;-) Encrypted data is transferred using protocol 50 (esp), udp port 500 is only used for key negotiation (isakmp). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 22:52:44 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:52:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040915201351.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915201351.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > ...the thing to note is that's PROTOCOL 50/51, not PORT 50/51. IPSEC > > VPN packets aren't transmitted over TCP OR UDP, but use IP protocol > > numbers 50 and 51. > > The key exchange and data go over those protocols, the encrypted data is > transfered over udp on port 500. Contrariwise. Protocol 50 is ESP, for encryption, or encryption plus authentication, of packets. Protocol 51 is AH, for just crypto-grade authentication of packets. These are both UDP-style protocols, with unreliable unsequenced uncontrolled delivery, but their contents are complete packets -- each including a header specifying another protocol, like TCP and UDP -- not just data. UDP port 500 is used for key negotiation, with the IKE protocol. There are some optional wretched kludges, still in draft form last time I checked, which carry both IKE and ESP over a single UDP port, for use in traversing NAT gateways. Mostly this uses UDP port 4500, although some older versions tried to just pile everything onto 500. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 15 22:56:41 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 18:56:41 -0400 Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <20040915220333.72876.qmail-5zxKuoCaw2iA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1095289001.4148c8a905f18@www.almatau.com> Quoting Frank Peng : > Thank you guys enlighten me a lot. Now I decided to go > for 64bit: > > Tyan 940 motherboard AGP8X > 3.0 GHz Opteron > 4GB memory > ATI X2-256T video card > 80GB SATA hard drive But don't forget to make sure your SATA controller has a decent support in Linux kernel. Currently I can't achieve stability for SiI3112A Serial ATA in RH Enterprise. RedHat helpdesk replied that "official support for SATA controllers is only limited to ICH5 chipset." Of course, it doesn't mean that others aren't supported, but this "half-supported" SiI3112A is a nightmare. > .... > > The fancy PCI-X ports, not PCI-Express, is useless for > now. It is said AMD will make PCI-Express main board > at 2005... > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 00:04:00 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:04:00 -0400 Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <1095289001.4148c8a905f18-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> <1095289001.4148c8a905f18@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040916000400.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 06:56:41PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting Frank Peng : > > > Thank you guys enlighten me a lot. Now I decided to go > > for 64bit: > > > > Tyan 940 motherboard AGP8X > > 3.0 GHz Opteron > > 4GB memory > > ATI X2-256T video card > > 80GB SATA hard drive > > But don't forget to make sure your SATA controller has a decent support in Linux > kernel. Currently I can't achieve stability for SiI3112A Serial ATA in RH > Enterprise. RedHat helpdesk replied that "official support for SATA controllers > is only limited to ICH5 chipset." Of course, it doesn't mean that others aren't > supported, but this "half-supported" SiI3112A is a nightmare. The SII3112A on the A7N8X-E-DX I use at work is flawless. Has worked perfectly under 2.4.25+ and 2.6.x (I currently use 2.6.7). I also use an ICH5R on the P4P800 and no problems there either. Both the scsi and old ide style interfaces have worked fine, although I prefer the scsi style interface of libata, so I use that. The SII3114 on the other hand would be a nightmare. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 00:05:30 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 20:05:30 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <200409151837.40958.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915201351.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200409151837.40958.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040916000530.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 06:37:40PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > You have it backwards, or perhaps I'm just reading you backwards ;-) > Encrypted data is transferred using protocol 50 (esp), udp port 500 is only > used for key negotiation (isakmp). Hmm, that wouldn't make sense since it's the data you care less about loosing than the key exchanges, or so I would think, since some data may be udp data and you have no reason to garentee delivery. Using a different protocol than udp would mean routers don't have a clue about the importance of that data. But then again I could be wrong about which port does which. I know they are both required for ipsec to work though. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 01:40:30 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:40:30 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <4148ACCB.8020803-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4148ACCB.8020803@istop.com> Message-ID: <4148EF0E.3080604@rogers.com> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Isnt VPN using a protocol gre ? I had the problem with openBSD working > as a firewall. openBSD by default does not allow to use gre protocol > (Windows does). Linux probably does not either. GRE is one method of implementing a VPN, but not the only one. Also, GRE is available for Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 01:41:06 2004 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:41:06 -0400 Subject: Canon PowerShot A75 Message-ID: <200409152141.06880.marc@lijour.net> Sorry if I repeat some question here. The Canon PowerShot A75 would be usable with Linux? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 02:26:22 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040916000530.GU8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040916000530.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Encrypted data is transferred using protocol 50 (esp), udp port 500 is only > > used for key negotiation (isakmp). > > Hmm, that wouldn't make sense since it's the data you care less about > loosing than the key exchanges... Neither protocol 50 nor UDP port 500 is any more or less prone to data getting lost, other things being equal. Both are datagrams, with unreliable best-effort delivery. In both cases, reliability requires a higher-level protocol to pay attention and deal with lost packets somehow. (There has been some suggestion that it might be desirable to have an option to use TCP for key negotiation. The issue is not reliability -- the IKE key-negotiation protocol does handle retransmission of lost packets, if not as well as it might -- but the fact that IKE messages sometimes get large, and UDP doesn't do really big packets well. TCP has its own problems in this context, though...) > ...Using a > different protocol than udp would mean routers don't have a clue about > the importance of that data... That's correct, they don't. But then, routers which want to know about the importance of the data tend to want to inspect packet innards... and that is inherently impossible with IPsec. It is fundamental to IPsec that many "smart network tricks" (which, on closer inspection, often aren't really good ideas) are no longer possible when the contents of packets are completely hidden from inspection en route. > But then again I could be wrong about which port does which. As former technical lead of the late FreeS/WAN project, I can assure you I do know which does which. :-) RFC 2406 will tell you just about everything there is to know about ESP. It's reasonably well designed. You don't want to learn about IKE; trust me on this. :-) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 02:26:05 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:26:05 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040915134716.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040916022605.2F26F409B@cbbrowne.com> > My wife's laptop has an athlon 64 which so far has 32bit debian i386, > 32bit windows xp and 64bit windows xp on it. So far no problems with > any of them, other than a lack of broadcom wireless drivers for 64bit > xp. We haven't tried the 64bit debian on it yet, although sometime > soon we will. Debian has about 97% of the packages built native 64bit > for it, I see little point to jumping to 64 bit mode on the AMD64 laptops. - They don't support more than about 1GB of RAM, which means you're not getting any improvement over 32 bit mode - Widening addresses to 64 bits and likely widening some instructions, is likely to decrease performance somewhat. This doesn't point to there being any lowlying fruit to the jump to 64 bits... -- output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "acm.org") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/languages.html All ITS machines now have hardware for a new machine instruction -- PFLT Prove Fermat's Last Theorem. Please update your programs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 02:33:23 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:33:23 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040916022605.2F26F409B-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040916022605.2F26F409B@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <4148FB73.7060605@deeptown.org> Christopher Browne wrote: >>My wife's laptop has an athlon 64 which so far has 32bit debian i386, >>32bit windows xp and 64bit windows xp on it. So far no problems with >>any of them, other than a lack of broadcom wireless drivers for 64bit >>xp. We haven't tried the 64bit debian on it yet, although sometime >>soon we will. Debian has about 97% of the packages built native 64bit >>for it, >> >> > >I see little point to jumping to 64 bit mode on the AMD64 laptops. > >- They don't support more than about 1GB of RAM, which means you're not > getting any improvement over 32 bit mode > >- Widening addresses to 64 bits and likely widening some instructions, > is likely to decrease performance somewhat. > > > There is no any decrease in speed, because the bus also 64-bit, it means it can deliver 64-bits of data in one-two CPU clocks. Therefore if it's architected correctly, in 32-bit mode can be delivered 2x32-bit words, it probably can give ~35-50% of speed up for memory intence operations. All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 02:36:34 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 22:36:34 -0400 Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <20040916000400.GT8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> <1095289001.4148c8a905f18@www.almatau.com> <20040916000400.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1095302194.4148fc32b32ee@www.almatau.com> Quoting Lennart Sorensen : ... > > But don't forget to make sure your SATA controller has a decent support in > Linux > > kernel. Currently I can't achieve stability for SiI3112A Serial ATA in RH > > Enterprise. RedHat helpdesk replied that "official support for SATA > controllers > > is only limited to ICH5 chipset." Of course, it doesn't mean that others > aren't > > supported, but this "half-supported" SiI3112A is a nightmare. > > The SII3112A on the A7N8X-E-DX I use at work is flawless. Has worked > perfectly under 2.4.25+ and 2.6.x (I currently use 2.6.7). I also use > an ICH5R on the P4P800 and no problems there either. Both the scsi and > old ide style interfaces have worked fine, although I prefer the scsi > style interface of libata, so I use that. Unfortunately, RHEL contains 2.4.21, probably that's why there are problems. > > The SII3114 on the other hand would be a nightmare. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 03:22:58 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:22:58 -0400 Subject: Canon PowerShot A75 In-Reply-To: <200409152141.06880.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200409152141.06880.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20040916032258.GC2884@smeagol> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 09:41:06PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > The Canon PowerShot A75 would be usable with Linux? Works for me with GPHoto2. -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 03:43:17 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:43:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <4148FB73.7060605-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4148FB73.7060605@deeptown.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > There is no any decrease in speed, because the bus also 64-bit, it means > it can deliver 64-bits of data in one-two CPU clocks. There's no connection between the CPU instruction/register width and the bus width, especially when there's a cache in between. PC memory buses have been 64 bits wide since the Pentium I, and if I've understood the jargon correctly, today's systems with dual-channel DDR memory have effectively a 128-bit memory bus. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 03:53:41 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 23:53:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Tap on the shoulder Message-ID: Just in case there are any inspiring Linux sys admins lerking: http://toronto.craigslist.org/sad/42117115.html Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 16:00:22 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:00:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Canon PowerShot A75 In-Reply-To: <200409152141.06880.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200409152141.06880.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Sorry if I repeat some question here. > > The Canon PowerShot A75 would be usable with Linux? Afaik, yes, but consider this second hand info since I haven't seen it working myself. Most USB digital cameras work, they appear as removable usb storage to linux hotplug, sometimes with unusual device ids that require some editing of the hotplug scripts. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 16:09:30 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:09:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <4148FB73.7060605-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040916022605.2F26F409B@cbbrowne.com> <4148FB73.7060605@deeptown.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > There is no any decrease in speed, because the bus also 64-bit, it means it > can deliver 64-bits of data in one-two CPU clocks. > Therefore if it's architected correctly, in 32-bit mode can be delivered > 2x32-bit words, it probably can give ~35-50% of > speed up for memory intence operations. That requires programs optimized for this type of cpu afaik. Many (most) data accesses will be on 32 bits or less unless high level programs are rewritten to specifically avoid this. Afaik current multimedia programs for PC are written with 32-bit optimisation and would probably clash with the 64 bit mode. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 11:21:36 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 07:21:36 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41497740.5060505@deeptown.org> Henry Spencer wrote: >On Wed, 15 Sep 2004, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > > >>There is no any decrease in speed, because the bus also 64-bit, it means >>it can deliver 64-bits of data in one-two CPU clocks. >> >> > >There's no connection between the CPU instruction/register width and the >bus width, especially when there's a cache in between. PC memory buses >have been 64 bits wide since the Pentium I, and if I've understood the >jargon correctly, today's systems with dual-channel DDR memory have >effectively a 128-bit memory bus. > > > Okay then. It looks like my in-depth hardware knowledge has been frozen somewere in 1994 =) All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 12:43:26 2004 From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:43:26 -0400 Subject: Canon PowerShot A75 In-Reply-To: <200409152141.06880.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200409152141.06880.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200409160843.27079.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> http://www.teaser.fr/~hfiguiere/linux/digicam.html On Wednesday September 15 2004 9:41 pm, Marc Lijour wrote: > Sorry if I repeat some question here. > > The Canon PowerShot A75 would be usable with Linux? > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 14:46:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:46:03 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: References: <20040916000530.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040916144603.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:26:22PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > Neither protocol 50 nor UDP port 500 is any more or less prone to data > getting lost, other things being equal. Both are datagrams, with > unreliable best-effort delivery. In both cases, reliability requires a > higher-level protocol to pay attention and deal with lost packets somehow. So it isn't UDP that's special, it is TCP. OK, that makes sense. IP itself is best effort delivery as far as I kow, which is all routers really care about I suppose. > (There has been some suggestion that it might be desirable to have an > option to use TCP for key negotiation. The issue is not reliability -- > the IKE key-negotiation protocol does handle retransmission of lost > packets, if not as well as it might -- but the fact that IKE messages > sometimes get large, and UDP doesn't do really big packets well. TCP has > its own problems in this context, though...) Well IPsec has worked pretty well for me in the past, so it can't be too bad. > That's correct, they don't. But then, routers which want to know about > the importance of the data tend to want to inspect packet innards... and > that is inherently impossible with IPsec. It is fundamental to IPsec that > many "smart network tricks" (which, on closer inspection, often aren't > really good ideas) are no longer possible when the contents of packets are > completely hidden from inspection en route. I guess that makes sense. Bad router design is what is breaking ECN (explicit congestion notification) as far as I know. > As former technical lead of the late FreeS/WAN project, I can assure you > I do know which does which. :-) > > RFC 2406 will tell you just about everything there is to know about ESP. > It's reasonably well designed. > > You don't want to learn about IKE; trust me on this. :-) Yeah I think you are right on that. Now if I could only figure out what syntax to use in ipsec.secrets with an x.509 certificate to make it have a clue that it is the default key. Seems no one knows how to make it do that, only that it complains about it. Perhaps I should just stick to plain RSA keys. Or PSK which always works. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 14:49:21 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:49:21 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040916022605.2F26F409B-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040916022605.2F26F409B@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20040916144921.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:26:05PM -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > I see little point to jumping to 64 bit mode on the AMD64 laptops. > > - They don't support more than about 1GB of RAM, which means you're not > getting any improvement over 32 bit mode > > - Widening addresses to 64 bits and likely widening some instructions, > is likely to decrease performance somewhat. > > This doesn't point to there being any lowlying fruit to the jump to 64 > bits... Well so far the Debian amd64 port has noticed upwards of 50% performance increase in many applications (I don't know which though). That would indicate a reason to go 64bit. I remember seeing one benchmark that showed the athlon64 could do 64bit calculations in 64bit mode as fast as 32bit math in 32bit mode, and 32bit math in 64bit mode about twice the speed of in 32bit mode. So it does make a difference, not just for ram size allowed. You could even memory map a huge file (over 4GB) in 64bit mode if that makes your application easier to implement. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 14:51:25 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:51:25 -0400 Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <1095302194.4148fc32b32ee-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> <1095289001.4148c8a905f18@www.almatau.com> <20040916000400.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095302194.4148fc32b32ee@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040916145125.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 10:36:34PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Unfortunately, RHEL contains 2.4.21, probably that's why there are problems. Yes, that ancient (and very full of security holes unless redhat patched them) kernel would be a problem. With 2.4.25 (maybe 2.4.24) and higher SATA on the 3112 has been flawless. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 14:53:56 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 10:53:56 -0400 Subject: Canon PowerShot A75 In-Reply-To: <200409152141.06880.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200409152141.06880.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20040916145356.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 09:41:06PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > Sorry if I repeat some question here. > > The Canon PowerShot A75 would be usable with Linux? http://www.gphoto.org/proj/libgphoto2/support.php is a good place to look. The A70 and A80 are supported along with many other models so chances are good from that perspective. Given someone else said it does work, well I guess it was similar enough to one of those listed models. I suspect it probably works as a usb-storage device. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 15:30:08 2004 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 11:30:08 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040915192425.GL8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >There has to be more to it than that. I guess for one, 64bit integer >math can be done natively rather than whatever x86 used to do (I don't >think x86 32bit chips have done 64bit addition and such natively, >I figure they had some way around it that chopped it up and manipulated >it a bit in the compiler.) Then again maybe it is just having a few >more registers helping out, although the P6 architecture's register >renaming (which has a lot more than 8 registers inside the chip) used >in the speculative execution and out of order execution already helps many >such programs run faster than they should on an 8 register architecture. > > Hmm.. interesting. I had always assumed that MMX allowed you to do 64 bit integer arithmetic directly, but based on a bit of googling, I can' find any arithmetic support for "quadwords", only for "dwords". SSE doesn't add this support either. Does SSE2? I haven't thought about it much, but just off the cuff, it seems to me that given equivalent OOO infrastructure supporting an ISA with few architectural registers and an ISA with many architectural registers, the latter should still perform better, even though the former performs better than a register starved ISA without the OOO bits would. That's more or less what you get with AMD64: there are still rename registers and the works in 64 bit mode, but there are also 8 more GPRs, meaning compilers can be less hackish, the cpu needs to do less work rewriting all those load/store requests, etc. So the cpu can waste less effort working around the ISA. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 22:49:47 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:49:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <4149B180.3030309-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Hmm.. interesting. I had always assumed that MMX allowed you to do 64 bit > integer arithmetic directly, but based on a bit of googling, I can' find any > arithmetic support for "quadwords", only for "dwords". SSE doesn't add this > support either. Does SSE2? Afaik dword = 2*32 bits = 64 bits, qword = 4*32 bits = 128 bits, no ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 16:18:43 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:18:43 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:49:47 -0400 (EDT), Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Andrej Marjan wrote: > > > Hmm.. interesting. I had always assumed that MMX allowed you to do 64 bit > > integer arithmetic directly, but based on a bit of googling, I can' find any > > arithmetic support for "quadwords", only for "dwords". SSE doesn't add this > > support either. Does SSE2? > > Afaik dword = 2*32 bits = 64 bits, qword = 4*32 bits = 128 bits, no ? No, since a byte is 8 bits, a word is 16 bits, hence making a dword 32 bits and a qword 64 bits. Though that all depends. Some DPSs use 24-bit words. It depends on your definition of "word." Naturally, "classical" usage of such words (in computing, in music, and in any number of other jargon-filled fields) isn't always clear compared to "modern" usage due to a muddled history. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 23:34:16 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: I got your message 4 times ? Anyone else ? Peter On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:49:47 -0400 (EDT), Peter L. Peres -snip- > No, since a byte is 8 bits, a word is 16 bits, hence making a dword 32 bits and > a qword 64 bits. > > Though that all depends. Some DPSs use 24-bit words. It depends on your > definition of "word." Naturally, "classical" usage of such words (in computing, > in music, and in any number of other jargon-filled fields) isn't always clear > compared to "modern" usage due to a muddled history. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 16:51:32 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:51:32 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:34:16 -0400 (EDT), Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > I got your message 4 times ? Anyone else ? GMail's been glitchy today. :( -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 17:04:15 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:04:15 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <4149B180.3030309-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040916170415.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 11:30:08AM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > Hmm.. interesting. I had always assumed that MMX allowed you to do 64 > bit integer arithmetic directly, but based on a bit of googling, I can' > find any arithmetic support for "quadwords", only for "dwords". SSE > doesn't add this support either. Does SSE2? As far as I remember, MMX was mostly about doing the same operation (one instruction) on a chunk of data at a time, so doing a bitshift on each 8 bit pieece in a 64bit register, or each 16bit piece in a 64bit register, or even 32bit in a 64bit register. so that you could process more than one audio sample or pixel in one instruction. I do not believe it did anything to improve 64bit integer operations, which I am not actually sure if are available in hardware on x86. I would be surprised if the 386 had added those, and I don't know how many new instructions have really been added (outside MMX, SSE, etc) since. Of course an application using MMX can't use floating point. It has to switch back and forth between the mode to do that. Probably no big deal since they are probably mostly used in different applications. > I haven't thought about it much, but just off the cuff, it seems to me > that given equivalent OOO infrastructure supporting an ISA with few > architectural registers and an ISA with many architectural registers, > the latter should still perform better, even though the former performs > better than a register starved ISA without the OOO bits would. > > That's more or less what you get with AMD64: there are still rename > registers and the works in 64 bit mode, but there are also 8 more GPRs, > meaning compilers can be less hackish, the cpu needs to do less work > rewriting all those load/store requests, etc. So the cpu can waste less > effort working around the ISA. Well x86-64 does add quite a few new instructions when in 64bit mode. Being a new mode it also makes sense to add more registers (why SSE and such didn't do that while they were at it, I can't imagine.) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 17:05:07 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:05:07 -0400 Subject: Viewing web services inside LAN via Internet In-Reply-To: <200409151225.53382.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200409151225.53382.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20040916170507.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 12:25:53PM +0800, JM wrote: > is it possible to view a web service sitting inside our LAN via internet > > sample setup > > boxA (with global IP and LAN IP) > > boxB (LAN IP only) - this is where the Web service sits. > > boxA and boxB are connected via the same segment of LAN IP. Sure, forward port 80 inside from boxA to boxB. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 17:49:40 2004 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:49:40 -0400 Subject: Canon PowerShot A75 In-Reply-To: <200409152141.06880.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200409152141.06880.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040916134555.09ad6a50@localhost> At 09:41 PM 15/09/2004 -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: >Sorry if I repeat some question here. > >The Canon PowerShot A75 would be usable with Linux? Kamera, a KDE application, supports the PowerShot A80 so it should support the A75. I found gphoto had one annoying quirk. Regardless of where I told gphoto it should put downloaded photos, it insisted on putting them somewhere else. Kamera has worked flawlessly. Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, Ontario Canada M4N 3P6 Tel: 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 17:59:12 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 13:59:12 -0400 Subject: weather script Message-ID: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> I know this should be dead easy, but I have been unable to cook up a simple script that would get tomorrows weather forcast, so that I can dump it into a text file. I've been looking at http://www.schwarzvogel.de/software-pymetar.shtml but haven't managed to get the desired output. any suggestions ? ps, I'd also like to include sun rise/set times in the script. thanks, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 18:11:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:11:36 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095357551.2747.25.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 01:59:12PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I know this should be dead easy, but I have been unable to cook up a > simple script that would get tomorrows weather forcast, so that I can > dump it into a text file. > > I've been looking at > http://www.schwarzvogel.de/software-pymetar.shtml > but haven't managed to get the desired output. > > any suggestions ? > > ps, I'd also like to include sun rise/set times in the script. > thanks, I had a small script in perl get me weather using Weather::Underground CPAN module. I thought it was pretty nice at the time. No idea about the sun rise/set times though. I can't remember if that was included. There are a number of perl modules for weather on cpan, although some are for specific countries only. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 18:31:05 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:31:05 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <20040916181136.GB8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I had a small script in perl get me weather using Weather::Underground > CPAN module. I thought it was pretty nice at the time. No idea about > the sun rise/set times though. I can't remember if that was included. > There are a number of perl modules for weather on cpan, although some > are for specific countries only. That's the idea. Can you dig up an example ? I'm not exactly a proficient perl mongerer. thanks, you are truly a trouble shootin' champion, Lennart ! One of these TLUG meetings, we should carry you around on our shoulders, for a bit ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 18:42:13 2004 From: akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adil Kodian) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 12:42:13 -0600 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095359464.2747.32.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <7aa37fa804091611425a17e7ae@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:31:05 -0400, David J Patrick export PS1="Current temp: $(wget -nv -q -O - http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/CYXD.html|grep 'C)' |head -1 | awk '{print $5}' |tr -d '(') >" put this one line in your .bashrc then you get the current temperature whenever you log on ! Of course this is edmonton temperature - you can get the same for toronto. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 18:42:29 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:42:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095357551.2747.25.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > I know this should be dead easy, but I have been unable to cook up a > simple script that would get tomorrows weather forcast, so that I can > dump it into a text file. > > I've been looking at > http://www.schwarzvogel.de/software-pymetar.shtml > but haven't managed to get the desired output. > > any suggestions ? > > ps, I'd also like to include sun rise/set times in the script. > thanks, If you can give me a URL for the data (e.g., for CWQE), I'll whip up a script. Also the format of the data. I'm very busy at the moment, so I don't have time to go hunting, but I always have time to write a script (it might make it into the book I'm writing). -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 18:48:03 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:48:03 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095357551.2747.25.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1095360483.27789.39.camel@192.168.1.80> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 13:59, David J Patrick wrote: > I know this should be dead easy, but I have been unable to cook up a > simple script that would get tomorrows weather forcast, so that I can > dump it into a text file. > > I've been looking at > http://www.schwarzvogel.de/software-pymetar.shtml > but haven't managed to get the desired output. > > any suggestions ? > > ps, I'd also like to include sun rise/set times in the script. > thanks, > djp Hey, I use xfce4 and you can get a weather panel plugin that is really cool. So I wanted to add something similar to the web application that I work on. I looked at the code the for panel app and basically it just gets the info from xoap.weather.com sending a location code and parses through the returned xml data and does what it wants with it. The thing is this was almost a year ago and I was just messing around with it....so the code is not very pretty :). I was just basically seeing what xoap.weather.com returns. This script has no functionality, it just prints stuff to the screen. But it will just give you an idea of how to get the weather in xml format. Then you can do whatever you want with it. If you want it let me know and I can send it to you off list. Also, you can get sunrise and sunset from it. Actually I will just put the code in the email. This is just getting the xml back from the website. You should look up HTML::Parser on cpan for more info. Again, I will reinterate that this code is sloppy and I was just fooling around to see what can be done with HTML::Parser and an xml file. But it is a start that you can work with :). Later code: #!/usr/bin/perl -w use LWP::Simple; use HTML::Parser (); use HTTP::Request; use LWP::UserAgent; use strict; my $tagName = ""; #location code for toronto my $location="CAXX0504"; #my $location="NLXX0019"; #metric or imperial? my $unit = "m"; my %myHash = (); my $url = "http://xoap.weather.com/weather/local/$location?cc=&prod=xoap&unit=$unit&par=1003832479&key=bb12936706a2d601"; my $ua = LWP::UserAgent->new; #instantiate a user agent my $request = HTTP::Request->new(GET => $url); my $response = $ua->request($request); #now we attach events for the parser to act on #for example when the parser comes across it will fire the #event or function start passing it the tagname and a reference to #itself my $p=HTML::Parser->new(start_h => [\&start,"tagname, self"],); #setting xml mode my $bool="true"; $p->xml_mode($bool); $p->eof; #get our xml info my $xml = $response->content; #make sure we actually got something if( $response->is_success ) { #request succeeded #this will print out the actual xml file that was returned #uncomment this to see what you are parsing #print $response->content; #start the parser parsing the xml $p->parse($xml); } else { #request failed print $response->error_as_HTML; } #this is called when we meet a start tag sub start { my($self, $tagname,$origtext) = @_; $tagName = $self; #print the tagname print("$self\n"); #set a handler for dealing with the text for this tag $tagname->handler(text => \&text, "dtext"); } #prints out the html text for the tag sub text { my($self, $origtext, $is_cdata) = @_; #... #print($self." ".$origtext."\n"); print($self."\n"); } -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 18:52:27 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:52:27 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095359464.2747.32.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 02:31:05PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > That's the idea. Can you dig up an example ? I'm not exactly a > proficient perl mongerer. > thanks, you are truly a trouble shootin' champion, Lennart ! > One of these TLUG meetings, we should carry you around on our shoulders, > for a bit ! I would have to make it to one first. :) I have only been to one NewTLUG meeting, and no TLUG meetings. Something about heading downtown and such. Here is one from 'man Weather::Underground' use Weather::Underground; $weather = Weather::Underground->new( place => "Toronto, Ontario", debug => 0, ) || die "Error, could not create new weather object: $@\n" ; $arrayref = $weather->get_weather() || die "Error, calling get_weather() failed: $@\n"; foreach (@$arrayref) { print "MATCH:\n"; while (($key, $value) = each %{$_}) { print "\t$key = $value\n"; } } The less specific the place name, the more matches you get. So a search for just Toronto gets you Toronto Ontario, Toronto South Dakota, etc. Pretty neat that way really. If you give it something that it can't match, well then you get a blank result (no errors). Maybe this is a start at least. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 19:00:40 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:00:40 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1095361239.2747.55.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:42, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > If you can give me a URL for the data (e.g., for CWQE), I'll whip > up a script. > > Also the format of the data. Awesome, Chris, I'll continue research on the Ideal source for Toronto weather data. The options are kind of overwhelming. > > I'm very busy at the moment, so I don't have time to go hunting, > but I always have time to write a script (it might make it into the > book I'm writing). I can dig that ! Now I'm curious about that book. ps. Your "moderation" tagline; I say that all the time ! djp -- If something's worth doing, it's worth overdoing ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 19:08:24 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:08:24 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095361239.2747.55.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095361239.2747.55.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:00:40 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Awesome, Chris, I'll continue research on the Ideal source for Toronto > weather data. The options are kind of overwhelming. Though you'll have to do a bit more parsing, you can put your own tax dollars to use for this: http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?yyz http://text.weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?yyz :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 19:08:29 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:08:29 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1095361708.2747.59.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:42, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > If you can give me a URL for the data (e.g., for CWQE), I'll whip > up a script. CWTZ (the Toronto island) > > Also the format of the data. Geez, Idonno, I'm looking for a compact and concise block of text. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 19:13:43 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 15:13:43 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <7aa37fa804091611425a17e7ae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7aa37fa804091611425a17e7ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1095362023.2747.61.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:42, Adil Kodian wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:31:05 -0400, David J Patrick > > export PS1="Current temp: $(wget -nv -q -O - > http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/CYXD.html|grep 'C)' |head -1 | > awk '{print $5}' |tr -d '(') >" > > > put this one line in your .bashrc then you get the current temperature > whenever you log on ! Of course this is edmonton temperature - you can > get the same for toronto. Not exactly what I'm after, but educational, thanks ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 20:28:32 2004 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:28:32 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4149F770.2090809@pobox.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Andrej Marjan wrote: > >> Hmm.. interesting. I had always assumed that MMX allowed you to do 64 >> bit integer arithmetic directly, but based on a bit of googling, I >> can' find any arithmetic support for "quadwords", only for "dwords". >> SSE doesn't add this support either. Does SSE2? > > > Afaik dword = 2*32 bits = 64 bits, qword = 4*32 bits = 128 bits, no ? Not in (W)Intelworld. :) The terminology is straight out of the documentation. A word has been fixed at 16 bits. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 20:31:51 2004 From: StreetSmart2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (StreetSmart) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:31:51 -0400 Subject: Switching Linux Distros Message-ID: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> Hello, I currently have mandrake 10. But I want to switch to slackware 10. First Ill tell you about my computer. P3, 866, 512ram. Two harddrives (30gb, and 80gb) right now im running lilo, with mandrake and XP. My question is. How can I install slackware? Can I do a clean install over mandrake? Thanks, AdamR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 20:37:50 2004 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:37:50 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <7aa37fa804091611425a17e7ae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7aa37fa804091611425a17e7ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4149F99E.2090800@pobox.com> Adil Kodian wrote: >On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 14:31:05 -0400, David J Patrick > >export PS1="Current temp: $(wget -nv -q -O - >http://weather.noaa.gov/weather/current/CYXD.html|grep 'C)' |head -1 | >awk '{print $5}' |tr -d '(') >" > > Careful about using American data. I've seen their weather info for Toronto lag by half a day. I used to maintain a screen scraper for Environment Canada (http://weatheroffice.ec.gc.ca/forecast/city_e.html?yyz) before they fixed their pages. Same principle applies, though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 20:40:40 2004 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:40:40 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040916170415.GZ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> <20040916170415.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4149FA48.1050408@pobox.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >As far as I remember, MMX was mostly about doing the same operation (one >instruction) on a chunk of data at a time, so doing a bitshift on each 8 >bit pieece in a 64bit register, or each 16bit piece in a 64bit register, >or even 32bit in a 64bit register. so that you could process more than >one audio sample or pixel in one instruction. I do not believe it did >anything to improve 64bit integer operations, which I am not actually >sure if are available in hardware on x86. I would be surprised if the >386 had added those, and I don't know how many new instructions have >really been added (outside MMX, SSE, etc) since. Of course an >application using MMX can't use floating point. It has to switch back >and forth between the mode to do that. Probably no big deal since they >are probably mostly used in different applications. > > I know that was the intent of MMX. I had just (incorrectly) assumed that since they had gone to the trouble of overloading the floating point registers to allow for integer arithmetic, they would have gone the extra step of allowing arithmetic on the full 64 bits as a single entity. >Well x86-64 does add quite a few new instructions when in 64bit mode. >Being a new mode it also makes sense to add more registers (why SSE and >such didn't do that while they were at it, I can't imagine.) > > Well... considering that MMX was just grafted onto a ppro core, it would be less invasive (and cheaper) to just reuse the only registers that were big enough for the new purpose... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 20:46:21 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:46:21 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: <4149FB9D.60203@rogers.com> According to your message header, you posted this message at 7:34 PM. Since it's only 4:46 PM, I haven't been able to read your message yet. ;-) Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > I got your message 4 times ? Anyone else ? > > Peter > > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > >> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:49:47 -0400 (EDT), Peter L. Peres > > -snip- > >> No, since a byte is 8 bits, a word is 16 bits, hence making a dword 32 >> bits and >> a qword 64 bits. >> >> Though that all depends. Some DPSs use 24-bit words. It depends on your >> definition of "word." Naturally, "classical" usage of such words (in >> computing, >> in music, and in any number of other jargon-filled fields) isn't >> always clear >> compared to "modern" usage due to a muddled history. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 20:53:39 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:53:39 -0400 Subject: FC2/Gnome, Screencapturing Javascipt popup Message-ID: <4149FD53.9050500@alteeve.com> Hi all, I'm writing the documentation for my program and throughout it I am placing screen captures of all the screen items. One of those items is a javascript popup bubble with extra information. The problem is that when I press "Print Screen" on my keyboard to capture the screen the javascript popup bubble disappears (as does the mouse pointer) and the capture doesn't show the popup bubble. Is there a way that anyone knows how I could capture the popup bubble? Any other technical writers out there? :p Thanks!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 04:35:19 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <4149FB9D.60203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> <4149FB9D.60203@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > According to your message header, you posted this message at 7:34 PM. Since > it's only 4:46 PM, I haven't been able to read your message yet. ;-) The earth is round, and not flat. My timezone is (incorrectly) set to EDT. It should be IDT but the offset is correct ;-) And no I did not fall off the edge of the world ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 04:48:12 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC2/Gnome, Screencapturing Javascipt popup In-Reply-To: <4149FD53.9050500-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4149FD53.9050500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm writing the documentation for my program and throughout it I am placing > screen captures of all the screen items. One of those items is a javascript > popup bubble with extra information. The problem is that when I press "Print > Screen" on my keyboard to capture the screen the javascript popup bubble > disappears (as does the mouse pointer) and the capture doesn't show the popup > bubble. > > Is there a way that anyone knows how I could capture the popup bubble? Any > other technical writers out there? :p Thanks!! Use the default x11 screen capture program or xv. It allows you to capture 'after a set time'. So you start the capture program, trigger it, go to your application, and popup whatever there is to popup. When the delay expires the window where the mouse is (and the poppup or whatever) will be captured. The delay is 2 seconds by default afair (in xv) and can be set to any value for the command line tool. Another tool to check is import (from ImageMagick toolset). The X11 screen grabber is called xgrab (gui) and xgrabsc (no gui). There is also a tool in kde to do that. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 22:06:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:06:03 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <4149FA48.1050408-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040914222445.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040915111414.14007.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> <20040915134716.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41486AF2.1000305@pobox.com> <20040915192425.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> <20040916170415.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4149FA48.1050408@pobox.com> Message-ID: <20040916220603.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 04:40:40PM -0400, Andrej Marjan wrote: > I know that was the intent of MMX. I had just (incorrectly) assumed that > since they had gone to the trouble of overloading the floating point > registers to allow for integer arithmetic, they would have gone the > extra step of allowing arithmetic on the full 64 bits as a single entity. Remember the industry in general found MMX useless, but the extra L1 cache did speed things up in general. I think full 64bit integer operations would have been useful to have. > Well... considering that MMX was just grafted onto a ppro core, it would > be less invasive (and cheaper) to just reuse the only registers that > were big enough for the new purpose... MMX was first grafted onto the P5 core as the Pentium MMX (166, 200 and 233MHz, which also had twice the L1 cache of the original Pentium I believe). When the Pentium II came out later it added MMX to the P6 core. The Pentium Pro never had it as far as I know (at least not the steppings of the PPro I ever used). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 22:16:33 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:16:33 -0400 Subject: FC2/Gnome, Screencapturing Javascipt popup In-Reply-To: References: <4149FD53.9050500@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1095372992.2751.0.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-09-17 at 00:48, Peter L. Peres wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > Is there a way that anyone knows how I could capture the popup bubble? Any > > other technical writers out there? :p Thanks!! > > Use the default x11 screen capture program or xv. It allows you to capture > 'after a set time'. The screen capture tool in the gimp works great ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 22:31:04 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:31:04 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <20040916185227.GC8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 02:31:05PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > One of these TLUG meetings, we should carry you around on our shoulders, > > for a bit ! > > I would have to make it to one first. :) See! You'e missing more than lively penguin chatter ! > Something about heading > downtown and such. You GOTTA get out more ! > > Here is one from 'man Weather::Underground' > > use Weather::Underground; so I cut from here -> > > $weather = Weather::Underground->new( > place => "Toronto, Ontario", > debug => 0, > ) > || die "Error, could not create new weather object: $@\n" > ; > > $arrayref = $weather->get_weather() > || die "Error, calling get_weather() failed: $@\n"; > > foreach (@$arrayref) { > print "MATCH:\n"; > while (($key, $value) = each %{$_}) { > print "\t$key = $value\n"; > } > } > <- to here. save as "weather.whatever.pl", give execute permissions and run ? the result ? [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `(' /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: `$weather = Weather::Underground->new(' hmm ? I must learn some perl basics (if you'll pardon the mixed reference) before > The less specific the place name, the more matches you get. So a search > for just Toronto gets you Toronto Ontario, Toronto South Dakota, etc. > Pretty neat that way really. If you give it something that it can't > match, well then you get a blank result (no errors). > > Maybe this is a start at least. I'll keep trying stuff, this is a non-interactive script, right ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 05:48:25 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: FC2/Gnome, Screencapturing Javascipt popup In-Reply-To: <1095372992.2751.0.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <4149FD53.9050500@alteeve.com> <1095372992.2751.0.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > On Fri, 2004-09-17 at 00:48, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: >> > >>> Is there a way that anyone knows how I could capture the popup bubble? Any >>> other technical writers out there? :p Thanks!! >> >> Use the default x11 screen capture program or xv. It allows you to capture >> 'after a set time'. > > The screen capture tool in the gimp works great ! That, too. And 101 others I don't know about. One thing is sure: there is no lack of choices (of programs and of options per program). The manpages of these programs alone make a few MB of reading material. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 23:26:31 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:26:31 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095373863.2751.16.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 06:31:04PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Here is one from 'man Weather::Underground' > > > > use Weather::Underground; > > so I cut from here -> You started cutting one line too late, you need to include the use Weather::Underground; line above too. > > > > $weather = Weather::Underground->new( > > place => "Toronto, Ontario", > > debug => 0, > > ) > > || die "Error, could not create new weather object: $@\n" > > ; > > > > $arrayref = $weather->get_weather() > > || die "Error, calling get_weather() failed: $@\n"; > > > > foreach (@$arrayref) { > > print "MATCH:\n"; > > while (($key, $value) = each %{$_}) { > > print "\t$key = $value\n"; > > } > > } > > > <- to here. save as "weather.whatever.pl", give execute permissions and > run ? > the result ? > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `(' > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: `$weather = > Weather::Underground->new(' By not including the use line, you don't have the function defined. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 22:58:28 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:58:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <4149B180.3030309-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Andrej Marjan wrote: > I haven't thought about it much, but just off the cuff, it seems to me > that given equivalent OOO infrastructure supporting an ISA with few > architectural registers and an ISA with many architectural registers, > the latter should still perform better, even though the former performs > better than a register starved ISA without the OOO bits would. Generally speaking, other things being equal (a large assumption), yes. If nothing else, the register-starved ISA is using a fair number of instruction bits to address the memory locations that are being magically reinterpreted as internal registers, and a fair bit of hardware to do the magic and deal with the possibility of the swept-under-the-carpet memory accesses doing something undesirably exciting, and almost all of that goes away with more registers. Registers in quantity are good. > That's more or less what you get with AMD64: there are still rename > registers and the works in 64 bit mode, but there are also 8 more GPRs... Hmm, pity it's only 8. 16 or 32 would have been nice. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 23:05:26 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:05:26 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <20040916232631.GA3941-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 19:26, John Macdonald wrote: > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 06:31:04PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Here is one from 'man Weather::Underground' > > > > > > use Weather::Underground; > > > > so I cut from here -> > > You started cutting one line too late, you need to include > the use Weather::Underground; line above too. > > By not including the use line, you don't have the function > defined. Ahh ! Thanks ! but now it says; [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: use: command not found /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `(' /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: `$weather = Weather::Underground->new(' === to clarify, the script is === use Weather::Underground; $weather = Weather::Underground->new( place => "Toronto, Ontario", debug => 0, ) || die "Error, could not create new weather object: $@\n" ; $arrayref = $weather->get_weather() || die "Error, calling get_weather() failed: $@\n"; foreach (@$arrayref) { print "MATCH:\n"; while (($key, $value) = each %{$_}) { print "\t$key = $value\n"; } } right ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 16 23:17:24 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 19:17:24 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:58:28 -0400 (EDT), Henry Spencer wrote: > > That's more or less what you get with AMD64: there are still rename > > registers and the works in 64 bit mode, but there are also 8 more GPRs... > > Hmm, pity it's only 8. 16 or 32 would have been nice. Aye, but if you need a lot of registers in a desktop machine, just got get yourself a PowerMac G5. 32 64-bit GPRs, 32 64-bit FPRs, and 32 128-bit vector registers. :D -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 00:07:24 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:07:24 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095375925.2751.27.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 07:05:26PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > but now it says; > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: use: command not found > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `(' > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: `$weather = You realize this is a perl script right? Looks like you're trying to run a perl script as a shell script. The very first line should be #!/usr/bin/perl so when the script executes "/usr/bin/perl" is the interpreter, not the shell (substitute your actual perl location, e.g. the output of 'which perl' for your machine). Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 00:12:14 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:12:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <20040916144603.GV8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040916144603.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Neither protocol 50 nor UDP port 500 is any more or less prone to data > > getting lost, other things being equal. Both are datagrams, with > > unreliable best-effort delivery... > > So it isn't UDP that's special, it is TCP. OK, that makes sense. IP > itself is best effort delivery as far as I kow... Correct. UDP is basically raw IP with the addition of ports (so you can address entities within hosts, whereas IP only knows about hosts) and a little bit of corrupted-packet detection (IP itself checksums only the header, not the body). Dealing with lost, duplicated, reordered, or excessively abundant packets is still the application's problem. TCP looks after all that stuff for you, but the price is that it has one specific model of how to do it, which doesn't fit all applications. ESP is like UDP, a very limited set of features added to basic IP. It's mostly just encryption and authentication (which incidentally provides very strong corrupted-packet detection), but as a side issue it also does duplicate suppression to prevent replay attacks. Lost and reordered packets, flow control, and within-host addressing are somebody else's problem. > Now if I could only figure out what syntax to use in ipsec.secrets with > an x.509 certificate to make it have a clue that it is the default key. > Seems no one knows how to make it do that, only that it complains about > it. Perhaps I should just stick to plain RSA keys. Or PSK which always > works. Alas, can't help on that one -- I haven't kept track of what's happened to the project's code since I left it. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 00:59:40 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 20:59:40 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095375925.2751.27.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917005940.GB3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 07:05:26PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 19:26, John Macdonald wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 06:31:04PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > Here is one from 'man Weather::Underground' > > > > > > > > use Weather::Underground; > > > > > > so I cut from here -> > > > > You started cutting one line too late, you need to include > > the use Weather::Underground; line above too. > > > > By not including the use line, you don't have the function > > defined. > > Ahh ! Thanks ! > but now it says; > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: use: command not found > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `(' > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: `$weather = > Weather::Underground->new(' > === You have to let the system know that the script must be run by perl. Either use the command: perl ~/bin/weather.pl or prepend a new line 1 that looks like #!perl (instead of #!perl you might prefer to put the full pathname where perl is installed, perhaps that will make the line look like: #!/usr/bin/perl > to clarify, the script is > === > use Weather::Underground; > $weather = Weather::Underground->new( > place => "Toronto, Ontario", > debug => 0, > ) > || die "Error, could not create new weather object: $@\n" > ; > > $arrayref = $weather->get_weather() > || die "Error, calling get_weather() failed: $@\n"; > > foreach (@$arrayref) { > print "MATCH:\n"; > while (($key, $value) = each %{$_}) { > print "\t$key = $value\n"; > } > } > > right ? > djp > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 01:10:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:10:36 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095373863.2751.16.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917011036.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 06:31:04PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:52, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 02:31:05PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > > One of these TLUG meetings, we should carry you around on our shoulders, > > > for a bit ! > > > > I would have to make it to one first. :) > See! You'e missing more than lively penguin chatter ! > > Something about heading > > downtown and such. > You GOTTA get out more ! > > > > Here is one from 'man Weather::Underground' > > This line is rather important to perl ---v > > use Weather::Underground; > > so I cut from here -> > > > > $weather = Weather::Underground->new( > > place => "Toronto, Ontario", > > debug => 0, > > ) > > || die "Error, could not create new weather object: $@\n" > > ; > > > > $arrayref = $weather->get_weather() > > || die "Error, calling get_weather() failed: $@\n"; > > > > foreach (@$arrayref) { > > print "MATCH:\n"; > > while (($key, $value) = each %{$_}) { > > print "\t$key = $value\n"; > > } > > } > > > <- to here. save as "weather.whatever.pl", give execute permissions and > run ? > the result ? > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: syntax error near unexpected token `(' > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: `$weather = > Weather::Underground->new(' > > hmm ? > I must learn some perl basics (if you'll pardon the mixed reference) > before > > > The less specific the place name, the more matches you get. So a search > > for just Toronto gets you Toronto Ontario, Toronto South Dakota, etc. > > Pretty neat that way really. If you give it something that it can't > > match, well then you get a blank result (no errors). > > > > Maybe this is a start at least. > > I'll keep trying stuff, > this is a non-interactive script, right ? Sticking a #!/usr/bin/perl as the first line would help too actually. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 01:48:38 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:48:38 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> Message-ID: <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 20:07, Andy Jack wrote: > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 07:05:26PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > but now it says; > > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: use: command not found > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `(' > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: `$weather = > > You realize this is a perl script right? Looks like you're trying to > run a perl script as a shell script. The very first line should be > #!/usr/bin/perl after adding that to the head; [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl Can't locate Weather/Underground.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at /home/djp/bin/weather.pl line 2. BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /home/djp/bin/weather.pl line 2. that CAN'T be good .. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 01:59:26 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 21:59:26 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095385717.2751.30.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 21:48, David J Patrick wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 20:07, Andy Jack wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 07:05:26PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > > but now it says; > > > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: use: command not found > > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `(' > > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: `$weather = > > > > You realize this is a perl script right? Looks like you're trying to > > run a perl script as a shell script. The very first line should be > > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > after adding that to the head; > > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > Can't locate Weather/Underground.pm in @INC (@INC contains: [ ... ] As root, run perl -MCPAN -e shell When you get the CPAN> prompt, enter install Weather::Underground and you should be good. Incidentally, I love this thread. I started a simple application based on it here: http://psema4.gotdns.com/weather.cgi -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:01:44 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:01:44 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095386365.17466.2.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1095386501.17466.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> > Incidentally, I love this thread. I started a simple application based > on it here: http://psema4.gotdns.com/weather.cgi Oops. :) http://psema4.gotdns.com/cgi-bin/weather.cgi -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:00:11 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:00:11 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <4149B180.3030309@pobox.com> Message-ID: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> The Edge of the Ice wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:58:28 -0400 (EDT), Henry Spencer > wrote: > >>>That's more or less what you get with AMD64: there are still rename >>>registers and the works in 64 bit mode, but there are also 8 more GPRs... >> >>Hmm, pity it's only 8. 16 or 32 would have been nice. > > > Aye, but if you need a lot of registers in a desktop machine, just got > get yourself > a PowerMac G5. 32 64-bit GPRs, 32 64-bit FPRs, and 32 128-bit vector registers. Was it the old Texas Instruments CPU, used in the TI/99, that didn't have any on chip registers? As I recall, the "registers" were in fact, reserved memory locations. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:02:56 2004 From: lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org (Sergio Salvi) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:02:56 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <41488D74.20107-q4+D78v0SMv8u52rGdhAxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> Message-ID: <414A45D0.6070805@direitonet.com.br> Just in case that you still don't have your VPN connection working, add the following to your /etc/sysconfig/iptables (or similar): -A INPUT -p udp --sport 500 --dport 500 -j ACCEPT -A INPUT -p ipv6-crypt -j ACCEPT -A INPUT -p udp --sport 10000 --dport 10000 -j ACCEPT -A INPUT -p tcp --sport 1024: --dport 4005 -j ACCEPT At least, that's what I've been told to configure to connect to my job's Cisco VPN. (And it works :) []s, Sergio Salvi. David Kreuter wrote: > Hi: My linux machine has two NICs, one connnected to Rogers hispeed > 24.x.x.x. Other NIC is > on private 192.168.x.x. Windows box is on 192.168.x.x and works fine > using the internet through > the linux machine - Iptables is setup and is NATting. > > Now I want to use windows machine with Cisco VPN client. Can't connect. > If I directly connect > the Windows box NIC to the 24. network it works of course. > Can I train iptables to pass the encapsulated packets to/from my windows > VPN client? > > Thanks, David > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:03:15 2004 From: gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:03:15 -0400 Subject: Switching Linux Distros In-Reply-To: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> References: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> Message-ID: <20040916220315.642cfa78.gstrom@eol.ca> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:31:51 -0400 "StreetSmart" wrote: > Hello, I currently have mandrake 10. But I want to switch to slackware > 10. > > First Ill tell you about my computer. P3, 866, 512ram. Two harddrives > (30gb, and 80gb) right now im running lilo, with mandrake and XP. > > My question is. How can I install slackware? Can I do a clean install > over mandrake? > Yes, you can install Slack into an existing linux partition. During the installation process, you'll be prompted to set up your partitions. Since you're going to use an existing partition, all you need to do is select and reformat the one that has Mandrake on it. Before you do anything, be sure to read the Slackware-HOWTO.txt document that's included in the readme's. This gives you detailed instructions for the entire install process. -- Glen Strom gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:21:46 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:21:46 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095386365.17466.2.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1095387705.2751.48.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 21:59, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > As root, run perl -MCPAN -e shell the first part resulted in a lengthy, and seemingly successful, CPAN setup. wOW! > > When you get the CPAN> prompt, enter > install Weather::Underground > and you should be good. I would be good, I bet, I any of the ftp hosts would open up ! Connection refused on the 6 canadian servers I tried. ... Not connected. Not connected. Bad luck... Still failed! Can't access URL ftp://ftp.nrc.ca/pub/CPAN/authors/id/M/MN/MNAGUIB/Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz. Please check, if the URLs I found in your configuration file (ftp://ftp.nrc.ca/pub/CPAN/) are valid. The urllist can be edited. E.g. with 'o conf urllist push ftp://myurl/' Could not fetch authors/id/M/MN/MNAGUIB/Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz Giving up on '/root/.cpan/sources/authors/id/M/MN/MNAGUIB/Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz' Note: Current database in memory was generated on Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:05:05 GMT cpan> the learning continues. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:23:11 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:23:11 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095386501.17466.4.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1095386501.17466.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1095387790.2751.52.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 22:01, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Incidentally, I love this thread. I started a simple application based > > on it here: http://psema4.gotdns.com/weather.cgi Nifty ! I'll bookmark that . I'm sure the perl will shine for me too. Jus' gotta suss it out! thanks for the help, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:24:30 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:24:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <414A452B.8060605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > Was it the old Texas Instruments CPU, used in the TI/99, that didn't > have any on chip registers? As I recall, the "registers" were in fact, > reserved memory locations. The processor was the TI 9900. The memory wasn't exactly "reserved" -- the block of 16 "registers" could be anywhere in memory, with a control register specifying where it was. (Possibly it had to be on a 16-word boundary; I no longer remember.) An interesting architecture, and although the initial implementation was understandably slow, you could throw more transistors at it to do things like caching, and TI was promising to do so. But the marketing of the computer they designed around it, the 99/4A, could be described politely as grossly incompetent. So they lost a bundle on the computer, and I think the chip got dragged down with it. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 02:24:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 22:24:50 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095385717.2751.30.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917022450.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 09:48:38PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 20:07, Andy Jack wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 07:05:26PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > > but now it says; > > > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 1: use: command not found > > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: syntax error near unexpected token `(' > > > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl: line 2: `$weather = > > > > You realize this is a perl script right? Looks like you're trying to > > run a perl script as a shell script. The very first line should be > > > #!/usr/bin/perl > > after adding that to the head; > > [djp at sympatico djp]$ ~/bin/weather.pl > Can't locate Weather/Underground.pm in @INC (@INC contains: > /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.3 > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.3 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.3/i386-linux-thread-multi > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.3 > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2/i386-linux-thread-multi > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.2 > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at > /home/djp/bin/weather.pl line 2. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /home/djp/bin/weather.pl line 2. You do need to install the Weather::Underground CPAN module. Either your distribution can provide you one, or you can install it with the cpan command I believe. www.cpan.org Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 03:03:04 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:03:04 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095387705.2751.48.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1095387705.2751.48.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1095390182.17466.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> > I would be good, I bet, I any of the ftp hosts would open up ! > Connection refused on the 6 canadian servers I tried. [...] > the learning continues. always. :) Using the download link at http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/M/MN/MNAGUIB/Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz you should be able to - save the tarball, - cd to the directory it was saved in, - tar -zxf Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz - cd into the source directory - perl Makefile.PL - make - make test - as root, run: make install I haven't done it that way in a while, but I'm pretty sure that was how it went. I'm not terribly familiar with configuring the CPAN shell either, but it's invaluable for installing new modules when working properly. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 03:46:18 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:46:18 -0400 Subject: Switching Linux Distros In-Reply-To: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> References: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> Message-ID: <20040917034618.GA28949@m1800> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 04:31:51PM -0400, StreetSmart wrote > Hello, I currently have mandrake 10. But I want to switch to slackware 10. > > First Ill tell you about my computer. P3, 866, 512ram. Two harddrives > (30gb, and 80gb) right now im running lilo, with mandrake and XP. > > My question is. How can I install slackware? Can I do a clean install > over mandrake? One hint... cat /proc/pci > pci.txt Save pci.txt to a floppy, and/or print it out. This can make things a *LOT* easier when trying to figure out which network card or sound or video driver to select. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 03:56:06 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 16 Sep 2004 23:56:06 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095361708.2747.59.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095361708.2747.59.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917035606.GB28949@m1800> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 03:08:29PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote > On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 14:42, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > > > If you can give me a URL for the data (e.g., for CWQE), I'll whip > > up a script. > > CWTZ (the Toronto island) CYYZ is Pearson Airport. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 04:21:34 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:21:34 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095390182.17466.21.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1095387705.2751.48.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095390182.17466.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1095394893.2847.9.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-16 at 23:03, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Using the download link at > http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/M/MN/MNAGUIB/Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz > > you should be able to > - save the tarball, > - cd to the directory it was saved in, > - tar -zxf Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz > - cd into the source directory > - perl Makefile.PL > - make > - make test > - as root, run: make install Woo Hoo ! that worked ! The script worked ! I've got a weather report in my pocket ! Now I'm gonna take it apart and see how it works ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 04:22:45 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:22:45 -0400 Subject: Switching Linux Distros In-Reply-To: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> References: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> Message-ID: <200409170022.46361.m-cahill@rogers.com> On September 16, 2004 04:31 pm, StreetSmart wrote: > Hello, I currently have mandrake 10. But I want to switch to slackware 10. > > First Ill tell you about my computer. P3, 866, 512ram. Two harddrives > (30gb, and 80gb) right now im running lilo, with mandrake and XP. > > My question is. How can I install slackware? Can I do a clean install over > mandrake? > > Thanks, > > AdamR Not sure if it's the same with the latest release of Slack, but usually if you want to boot into a GUI by default, there are two ways, but Method 1 is the most common: (posted at: http://www.linuxpackages.net/faq/index.php?sid=19672&aktion=artikel&rubrik=012001&id=8&lang=en) ******************** Configuration: How do make Slackware startup to a GUI Method 1: Edit the file /etc/inittab Find the line that says id:3:initdefault: and change it to id:4:initdefault: Reboot and you will be started at a graphical login. Method 2: In your /etc/lilo.conf file add this entry: image = /boot/vmlinuz root = /dev/hda1 label = Linux-GUI append = "4" read-only Then at the CLI type lilo to update the bootloader. Use caution with method 2 and make sure that the image location, and root device are correct for your system. Last update: 2004-04-16 15:49 Author: Jim ********************** Hope that helps, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 05:04:22 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:04:22 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 10:24:30PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > > Was it the old Texas Instruments CPU, used in the TI/99, that didn't > > have any on chip registers? As I recall, the "registers" were in fact, > > reserved memory locations. > > The processor was the TI 9900. The memory wasn't exactly "reserved" -- > the block of 16 "registers" could be anywhere in memory, with a control > register specifying where it was. (Possibly it had to be on a 16-word > boundary; I no longer remember.) > > An interesting architecture, and although the initial implementation was > understandably slow, you could throw more transistors at it to do things > like caching, and TI was promising to do so. > > But the marketing of the computer they designed around it, the 99/4A, > could be described politely as grossly incompetent. So they lost a bundle > on the computer, and I think the chip got dragged down with it. There were 3 real registers. PC - program counter ST - status and interrupt WP - workspace pointer There were 16 virtual registers - WP + 2n was the address of reg n (0..15). WP had to be aligned on an even byte, but there was no restriction about 16-word boundary. It used 16-bit words, so the address space was limited to 64k bytes or 32k words. (30 years of Moore's Law is visible - nowadays we consider 64k bytes to be small for a level 1 cache, 30 years ago it was acceptable as the maximum limit of the address space for a small system (it was already too small for mainframes and was becoming obvious that it was too small for minicomputers, but for a micro-processor it was chosen as a tolerable limitation. I've got the "TMS Microprocessor Data Manual" on my bookshelf, it is dated November 1975. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 04:33:13 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 00:33:13 -0400 Subject: working weather script In-Reply-To: <20040916185227.GC8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Hey Lennart! With a few clues dropped, I got it working ! Now (not to be pickey) This is current conditions, right ? Can the same service be induced to give out a forcast ? Can I tell it to skip the farenheit ? Where would I turn to answer some of these daft questions myself ? gracias senor, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 05:10:56 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:10:56 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> Message-ID: <20040917051056.GC28949@m1800> On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 11:56:36PM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote > Hi everyone, > > I've got an odd mail problem that I'm not sure how to solve. Somewhere > between my laptop and my mailserver (incoming) any message that I send to > myself is disappearing. > > This mail does not arrive back at my laptop: > Sep 14 23:27:18 smeagol postfix/smtp[2783]: A8A8E3A5CA: > to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=11, > status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 8718117C10D) I'm also on IStop. I sent a test message to you, to check whether Houston is blocking IStop. Did you get the test message? -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 05:19:25 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040917050422.GC3941-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Sep 2004, John Macdonald wrote: > (30 years of Moore's Law is visible - nowadays we consider > 64k bytes to be small for a level 1 cache, 30 years ago it > was acceptable as the maximum limit of the address space for a > small system (it was already too small for mainframes and was > becoming obvious that it was too small for minicomputers, but > for a micro-processor it was chosen as a tolerable limitation. You'd need a new rev of the architecture to go larger, but it wouldn't be that big an architectural design problem to just double the widths of the registers and make some small adjustments in the instruction set. Much easier than the somewhat tortured process that produced the 68000, not to mention the 386... Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 05:25:54 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 01:25:54 -0400 Subject: Linus wins award from The Economist Message-ID: <20040917052554.GD28949@m1800> http://www.theregister.com/2004/09/16/linux_wins_prize/ Linus Torvalds, the creator of Linux, is being honoured at The Economist's Third Annual Innovations Awards. The event is held in San Francisco and awards innovators in six categories: bioscience, computing, energy and the environment, communications, "no boundaries" and social and economic innovation. Entries were nominated by Economist readers and journalists and the winners were chosen by a panel of 17 judges. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 10:42:43 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 06:42:43 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414ABFA3.1010004@rogers.com> It was the microcomputer of their larger system, which I think was called the 9900. That one worked reasonably well because it had sufficient speed and memory to take advantage of a "limitless set of register sets". On the other hand, no one remembers it. Henry Spencer wrote: >On Thu, 16 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > > >>Was it the old Texas Instruments CPU, used in the TI/99, that didn't >>have any on chip registers? As I recall, the "registers" were in fact, >>reserved memory locations. >> >> > >The processor was the TI 9900. The memory wasn't exactly "reserved" -- >the block of 16 "registers" could be anywhere in memory, with a control >register specifying where it was. (Possibly it had to be on a 16-word >boundary; I no longer remember.) > >An interesting architecture, and although the initial implementation was >understandably slow, you could throw more transistors at it to do things >like caching, and TI was promising to do so. > >But the marketing of the computer they designed around it, the 99/4A, >could be described politely as grossly incompetent. So they lost a bundle >on the computer, and I think the chip got dragged down with it. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 14:22:19 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:22:19 -0400 Subject: CD and ISO question Message-ID: <20040917141030.EEF21EB314@outbox.allstream.net> I've produced a selfhosted(live)CD based on Knoppix for my SIMPL open source project. I've found a volunteer with enough bandwidth to host the CD image. I have an .iso file that I use with cdrecord to cut my CD. How do I get this file to my volunteer host site? I don't have broadband so I tried simply mailing him a selfhosted(live)CD ... unfortunately the .iso he recreated and posted doesn't boot when burned onto a new CD. Thanks in advance for your help. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 14:31:49 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:31:49 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <1095390182.17466.21.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1095387705.2751.48.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095390182.17466.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040917143149.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 11:03:04PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > I would be good, I bet, I any of the ftp hosts would open up ! > > Connection refused on the 6 canadian servers I tried. > [...] > > the learning continues. > always. :) > > Using the download link at > http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/M/MN/MNAGUIB/Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz > > you should be able to > - save the tarball, > - cd to the directory it was saved in, > - tar -zxf Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz > - cd into the source directory > - perl Makefile.PL > - make > - make test > - as root, run: make install > > I haven't done it that way in a while, but I'm pretty sure that was how it went. > > I'm not terribly familiar with configuring the CPAN shell either, but it's invaluable > for installing new modules when working properly. On Debian there is a convinient system of: dh-make-perl --build --install --cpan Weather::Underground This then goes and downloads the module requested from cpam, extracts it, sets up the build to create a debian package from the perl module, make the debian package and installs it. Now your dependancy tracking and all is fulyl working, and you can remove it later using the same tools that manage all the other packages on the system. Pretty handy. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 14:33:06 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:33:06 -0400 Subject: working weather script In-Reply-To: <1095395592.2847.16.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 12:33:13AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Hey Lennart! With a few clues dropped, I got it working ! > Now (not to be pickey) This is current conditions, right ? Can the same > service be induced to give out a forcast ? Can I tell it to skip the > farenheit ? Where would I turn to answer some of these daft questions > myself ? Well where it has the foreach at the end, you could change it to just print the keys you want rather than all of them. I thought it had an option for multi day weather, but I can't remember actually. It is possible you may have to look at a different perl weather module for that. Not sure. I just wanted current weather at the time I found that one. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 14:36:33 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:36:33 -0400 Subject: CD and ISO question In-Reply-To: <20040917141030.EEF21EB314-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040917141030.EEF21EB314@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20040917143633.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 10:22:19AM -0400, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I've produced a selfhosted(live)CD based on Knoppix for my SIMPL open source > project. > > I've found a volunteer with enough bandwidth to host the CD image. > > I have an .iso file that I use with cdrecord to cut my CD. > > How do I get this file to my volunteer host site? I don't have broadband > so I tried simply mailing him a selfhosted(live)CD ... unfortunately the .iso > he recreated and posted doesn't boot when burned onto a new CD. > > Thanks in advance for your help. Make a cd containing the iso, rather than writing the cd. Extracting bootable CDs to file is not trivial, while sending him a cd with just the iso file in the filesystem would make it a simple copy file to server procedure. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 14:59:55 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 10:59:55 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <20040917143149.GG8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1095387705.2751.48.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095390182.17466.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040917143149.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <414AFBEB.9090004@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > dh-make-perl --build --install --cpan Weather::Underground Or on any Perl system, you can do: perl -MCPAN -e 'install Weather::Underground' and it does the same thing. Since distros are just a way of running Perl, you may find this preferable. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 15:23:39 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 11:23:39 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <20040917051056.GC28949@m1800> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> <20040917051056.GC28949@m1800> Message-ID: <20040917152339.GE2647@smeagol> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 01:10:56AM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Tue, Sep 14, 2004 at 11:56:36PM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote > > I've got an odd mail problem that I'm not sure how to solve. Somewhere > > between my laptop and my mailserver (incoming) any message that I send to > > myself is disappearing. > > > > This mail does not arrive back at my laptop: > > Sep 14 23:27:18 smeagol postfix/smtp[2783]: A8A8E3A5CA: > > to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=11, > > status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 8718117C10D) > > I'm also on IStop. I sent a test message to you, to check whether > Houston is blocking IStop. Did you get the test message? I got this one.... -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 16:33:29 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:33:29 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for new distro install Message-ID: Hi, I'm planning on installing Arch Linux (anyone here use this?) on a win xp machine for dual-booting. Reading the manual for Arch installation http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html , mentions separate root and boot partitions (for the automatic setup) http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html#commoninst31 , but says all that is needed is a swap and root partition http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html#commoninst32 , and would this pose any problems? I'm just trying to decrease the number of partitions on my physical drive (ntfs, fat32, swap, ext3). Thanks for any pointers! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 16:59:42 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:59:42 -0400 Subject: CD and ISO question In-Reply-To: <20040917143633.GI8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040917141030.EEF21EB314@outbox.allstream.net> <20040917143633.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040917164809.7A6BC1BAFE4@outbox.allstream.net> > > Make a cd containing the iso, rather than writing the cd. Extracting > bootable CDs to file is not trivial, while sending him a cd with just > the iso file in the filesystem would make it a simple copy file to > server procedure. > Now the dumb question as I'm new to writable CDs on Linux. How do a make a cd containing just the iso? Presumably its not a simple matter of copying the file ... or is it? bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:13:56 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:13:56 -0400 Subject: CD and ISO question In-Reply-To: <20040917164809.7A6BC1BAFE4-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040917141030.EEF21EB314@outbox.allstream.net> <20040917143633.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040917164809.7A6BC1BAFE4@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 12:59:42 -0400, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Now the dumb question as I'm new to writable CDs on Linux. > > How do a make a cd containing just the iso? Presumably its not a simple > matter of copying the file ... or is it? Use mkisofs to create a B.iso file that has as its contents the Original.iso file you want to have posted; burn this B.iso to a CD and mail it. You could also use an app like k3b to do this; instead of telling it to "burn image", just drag the Original.iso file into the file list pane for a data CD and burn! It's also HIGHLY recommended to make an md5sum of the .iso file, just to ensure that it actually made the trip without any errors. $ md5sum Original.iso | tee Original.iso.md5 606f17347e37d173789caa41d1163620 Original.iso Burn the .md5 file to the CD as well, or e-mail it, or whatever. To check at the other end, one would run (with both files in the current directory): $ md5sum -c Original.iso.md5 Orignal.iso: OK -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:19:05 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:19:05 -0400 Subject: TM-SERVER10 Message-ID: Hi TLUG! Been a while. I left my email account for a few months that collects mailing list emails. It queued up like 21,000 emails, and I finally got them sorted out again. :) 16,384 messages per inbox seems to be a softlimit. Anyways, Im building a Linux Server right from scratch. I have selected no hardware or software yet. Below are my ideas, please read them and reply to the TLUG list or myself with your ideas and advice. I thank you all, I'll be sure to be at the next meeting! I missed the last one just 2 days ago! Ack! /teddy PS: I know O'Reilly has a book out called Managing RAID on Linux. Im getting that book asap. ********* FUNCTION: ********* To build a LINUX MYSQL4 production server to handle from 100-5000 small(<1k) database transactions daily. Mission critical. Downtime to be minimized as much as possible during the day. Nothing else, thats it. A system that is as bulletproof as possible, against downtime, but doesnt cost the moon. ***************** OS and software: ***************** Redhat Enterprise AS or Fedora Core 2. I am open to any OS, but I am leaning towards using Fedora Core 2. I dont see anything in Enterprise Server AS that will help me. All software will be the latest open source versions of Apache2, MySQL4, maybe Samba all compiled from tar sources. *********** RAID *********** I am going to use a SCSI RAID and SCSI drives, so I am not going to use any software RAIDs or IDE drives. I dont want to have to boot into Linux just to get access to the RAID drives, if possible. I would like the Linux OS to be inside the RAID, but if that is not possible, then just the RAID to hold the MySQL data in say in /dev/sdb1. That means I assume my booting Linux OS would reside on say a 4GB IDE. hmmm. I thought about RAID 5, but I think I am going with a RAID1. RAID1 is secure reliable and fast. Just kinda slow on the writes. Im okay with that. A RAID 5 means dropping 1 or 2 G's on the extra large capacity SCSI drives. Im going with a SCSI RAID1, unless convinced otherwise. I am leaning towards the MEGARAID 1600 SCSI RAID CONTROLLER and 3 80GB SCSI drives. ************ RAID FORMAT ************ Since I only have 2 drives to worry about both will fit inside the PC, so no external closure is needed. Even better would be a cheap, but decent hot-swappable system that does RAID1, but I cant seem to find any. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:20:13 2004 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Switching Linux Distros In-Reply-To: <20040917034618.GA28949@m1800> References: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> <20040917034618.GA28949@m1800> Message-ID: On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Thu, Sep 16, 2004 at 04:31:51PM -0400, StreetSmart wrote >> Hello, I currently have mandrake 10. But I want to switch to slackware 10. > One hint... > cat /proc/pci > pci.txt > Save pci.txt to a floppy, and/or print it out. This can make things a > *LOT* easier when trying to figure out which network card or sound or > video driver to select. Slackware's auto-detect worked well for me with regards to the network card and sound. No harm in being prepared though. I would also suggest that you save and/or print out your X server configuration. I would have saved myself some frustration had I done so prior to my last re-install. JV -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:46:02 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:46:02 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for new distro install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414B22DA.4070800@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 bassix wrote: | Hi, | | I'm planning on installing Arch Linux (anyone here use this?) on a win | xp machine for dual-booting. Reading the manual for Arch installation | http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html | , mentions separate root and boot partitions (for the automatic setup) | http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html#commoninst31 | , but says all that is needed is a swap and root partition | http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html#commoninst32 | , and would this pose any problems? I'm just trying to decrease the | number of partitions on my physical drive (ntfs, fat32, swap, ext3). | | Thanks for any pointers! I'd suggest you keep it simple and partition your disk as follows: hda1 primary 200MB /boot hda2 primary (whatever you want for windows) WinXP hda3 primary (whatever you want to Linux) / hda4 primary (extended) hda5 extended 100MB /fat32 AKA D: hda6 extended (about 2x your system memory, at least 256MB) swap This gives you a fat32 partition for moving files between WinXP and Linux, which can be handy. You may also want to carve off a seperate /var and /tmp filesystems to make sure logfiles and temp files don't fill up your root partition. But that sounds more complicated than what you asked for. After partitioning, follow these steps: 1) mark hda2 as the bootable partition using linux fdisk and install windows. 2) back to linux install, fdisk again and mark hda1 bootable. 3) install lilo or grub or whatever boot load you're using into hda1's boot sector, NOT the MBR. Reason for this: next time you try installing or upgrading or even breathing on windows it'll skank your bootloader if it's in MBR. If your boatloader is in hda1 instead, you just fdisk and change the bootable tag. Problem solved. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBSyLYgfzn5SevSpoRAulCAJ9MKzf2BuvwnnR5Wy12JPxE/hL9jgCfWSaP MDrYUZ+UGtOxe7QI1PxYEew= =7c62 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:51:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:51:03 -0400 Subject: weather script In-Reply-To: <414AFBEB.9090004-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1095373863.2751.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916232631.GA3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1095375925.2751.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917000724.GC2646@seahorse> <1095385717.2751.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095386365.17466.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1095387705.2751.48.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1095390182.17466.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040917143149.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <414AFBEB.9090004@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917175102.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 10:59:55AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >dh-make-perl --build --install --cpan Weather::Underground > > Or on any Perl system, you can do: > > perl -MCPAN -e 'install Weather::Underground' > > and it does the same thing. > > Since distros are just a way of running Perl, you may find this preferable. Actually it doesn't do the same thing. The debian way actually creates a .deb and installs it so it can be removed like any other _debian_ package. The normal cpan module way just installs it into the perl modules dir (which works, but your systems native packaging system knows nothing about it). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:52:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:52:39 -0400 Subject: CD and ISO question In-Reply-To: <20040917164809.7A6BC1BAFE4-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040917141030.EEF21EB314@outbox.allstream.net> <20040917143633.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040917164809.7A6BC1BAFE4@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20040917175239.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 12:59:42PM -0400, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > > > Make a cd containing the iso, rather than writing the cd. Extracting > > bootable CDs to file is not trivial, while sending him a cd with just > > the iso file in the filesystem would make it a simple copy file to > > server procedure. > > > > Now the dumb question as I'm new to writable CDs on Linux. > > How do a make a cd containing just the iso? Presumably its not a simple > matter of copying the file ... or is it? mkisofs -J -R -o newcd.iso dirwith/your/custom.iso Then you burn newcd.iso the way you did before. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:56:22 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:56:22 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for new distro install In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040917175622.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 12:33:29PM -0400, bassix wrote: > I'm planning on installing Arch Linux (anyone here use this?) on a win > xp machine for dual-booting. Reading the manual for Arch installation > http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html > , mentions separate root and boot partitions (for the automatic setup) > http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html#commoninst31 > , but says all that is needed is a swap and root partition > http://www.archlinux.org/docs/en/guide/install/arch-install-guide.html#commoninst32 > , and would this pose any problems? I'm just trying to decrease the > number of partitions on my physical drive (ntfs, fat32, swap, ext3). > > Thanks for any pointers! Unless your bios is ancient or broken, you should have no need for a /boot partition. It mainly serves to work around bios limitations by being near the begining of the disk. A primary NTFS C: logical FAT32 for sharing files logical swap primary ext3 (containing / and /boot and all the rest) should work fine. Bootloader can go either in MBR or on the linux partition. On the linux partition means windows installs/upgrades/reinstalls won't trash it, they will just change the active partition to C: which you can then swithc back to the ext3 partition. Lots of other ways you can do it too of course. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 17:58:00 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 13:58:00 -0400 Subject: Partitioning for new distro install In-Reply-To: <414B22DA.4070800-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <414B22DA.4070800@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <1095443880.17724.6.camel@192.168.1.80> Hey, > hda1 primary 200MB /boot > hda2 primary (whatever you want for windows) WinXP > hda3 primary (whatever you want to Linux) / > hda4 primary (extended) > hda5 extended 100MB /fat32 AKA D: > hda6 extended (about 2x your system memory, at least 256MB) swap I would also suggest adding a /home partition. It makes upgrading a lot easier because you don't have to worry about losing or backing up all you stuff before upgrading. Especially since newer linux versions come out quite often! > After partitioning, follow these steps: > 1) mark hda2 as the bootable partition using linux fdisk and install > windows. > 2) back to linux install, fdisk again and mark hda1 bootable. > 3) install lilo or grub or whatever boot load you're using into hda1's > boot sector, NOT the MBR. > > Reason for this: next time you try installing or upgrading or even > breathing on windows it'll skank your bootloader if it's in MBR. If your > boatloader is in hda1 instead, you just fdisk and change the bootable > tag. Problem solved. This is a great tip Andrew. I recently had to reinstall my XP partition and lost lilo. I will have to remember that for next time :) Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 18:02:27 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:02:27 -0400 Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <20040915220333.72876.qmail-5zxKuoCaw2iA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <414B26B3.9060601@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Frank Peng wrote: | Thank you guys enlighten me a lot. Now I decided to go | for 64bit: | | Tyan 940 motherboard AGP8X | 3.0 GHz Opteron Wow! Last I checked, the fastest Opterons were the 150/250/850 chips. And they're clocked at 2.4GHz. ;) http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_9240,00.html | 4GB memory | ATI X2-256T video card | 80GB SATA hard drive Dunno what your budget is, but if disk performance matters, you could go for a pair of WD 10kRPM Raptor disks and do RAID0 across them. I think they're available in 73GB so you'd have 146GB of pretty quick storage that way. | The fancy PCI-X ports, not PCI-Express, is useless for | now. It is said AMD will make PCI-Express main board | at 2005... - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBSyaygfzn5SevSpoRAvdWAJ9NsD1GdZwPjmQAaTisYI9qzS3kggCgm7TZ T44nZyFc4mXfloUODw4Lf/s= =6Lke -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 21:46:44 2004 From: akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adil Kodian) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:46:44 -0600 Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <414B26B3.9060601-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> <414B26B3.9060601@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <7aa37fa8040917144649be55bc@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:02:27 -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Frank Peng wrote: > | Thank you guys enlighten me a lot. Now I decided to go > | for 64bit: > | > | Tyan 940 motherboard AGP8X > | 3.0 GHz Opteron > > Wow! Last I checked, the fastest Opterons were the 150/250/850 chips. > And they're clocked at 2.4GHz. ;) > > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_9240,00.html > > | 4GB memory > | ATI X2-256T video card > | 80GB SATA hard drive > > Dunno what your budget is, but if disk performance matters, you could go > for a pair of WD 10kRPM Raptor disks and do RAID0 across them. I think > they're available in 73GB so you'd have 146GB of pretty quick storage > that way. > > | The fancy PCI-X ports, not PCI-Express, is useless for > | now. It is said AMD will make PCI-Express main board > | at 2005... > > > - -- > Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org > Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. > CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFBSyaygfzn5SevSpoRAvdWAJ9NsD1GdZwPjmQAaTisYI9qzS3kggCgm7TZ > T44nZyFc4mXfloUODw4Lf/s= > =6Lke > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > make sure you *DONT* use the Sil3114 RAID features - if you have 2 sata drives. preferrably disable the on-board RAID conntroller and use software RAID on linux. the Sil3114 is a nightmare - it works without any kernel compiles only on FC2, but the data rates that ive gotten on 2 test machines is terrible. With two mirrored Disks, the disk to disk data transfer rate i get is about 8Mbps ! It works ok with striped disks- but then if you ever dual boot your machine with windows, it cant see the raid - and complains about drive geometry being incorrect. If you go ahead and install windows, then linux wont boot properly ! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 22:27:09 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 18:27:09 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB Message-ID: Hi, I've been have this really annoying problem with cups and usb. I have a printer connected to the cups server with usb cable. The usb cable is not secure on the printer end and whenever the printer moves a little, the cable disconnects. When I reconnect the printer, the server increments the usb id number by one and cups doesn't know about it since the configuration file is set with a static value. The question is, is there some utility or some way to tell the usb controller to reset? For now the only solution I have is to reset the computer... TIA Martin Duclos _________________________________________________________________ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft?? SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 03:46:19 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:46:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Sep 2004, Martin Duclos wrote: > I've been have this really annoying problem with cups and usb. I have a > printer connected to the cups server with usb cable. The usb cable is not > secure on the printer end and whenever the printer moves a little, the cable > disconnects. When I reconnect the printer, the server increments the usb id > number by one and cups doesn't know about it since the configuration file is > set with a static value. The question is, is there some utility or some way > to tell the usb controller to reset? For now the only solution I have is to > reset the computer... Or fix the cable. > _________________________________________________________________ > Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft? SmartScreen > Technology. No, thank you! -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 19:24:12 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:24:12 -0400 Subject: I decided to go for 64bit. In-Reply-To: <414B26B3.9060601-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040915220333.72876.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> <414B26B3.9060601@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20040917192412.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 02:02:27PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Wow! Last I checked, the fastest Opterons were the 150/250/850 chips. > And they're clocked at 2.4GHz. ;) > > http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_9240,00.html Yeah I think they are at 2.4Ghz. > Dunno what your budget is, but if disk performance matters, you could go > for a pair of WD 10kRPM Raptor disks and do RAID0 across them. I think > they're available in 73GB so you'd have 146GB of pretty quick storage > that way. Or you could run mirroring and have fast reliable storage instead. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 19:24:34 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:24:34 -0400 Subject: FC2/Gnome, Screencapturing Javascipt popup In-Reply-To: <1095372992.2751.0.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <4149FD53.9050500@alteeve.com> <1095372992.2751.0.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040917152434.52e6f31c.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 18:16:33 -0400 David J Patrick disseminated the following: > > Use the default x11 screen capture program or xv. It allows you to capture > > 'after a set time'. > > The screen capture tool in the gimp works great ! Even easier is 'scrot', and has a lot of options to play with. If your WM or DE allows keybindings, you can set a key combo to run scrot with appropriate arguments. http://linuxbrit.co.uk/scrot/ -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 15:21:52 up 44 days, 15:08, 4 users, load average: 0.12, 0.18, 0.11 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -- John Maynard Keynes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 00:14:38 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:14:38 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040917050422.GC3941-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <414B7DEE.2010608@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > I've got the "TMS Microprocessor Data Manual" on my bookshelf, > it is dated November 1975. > I think I had (have?) one of those too. Back in the 70's, I had several books on different CPUs. I seem to recall one, that used serial I/O for everything, including memory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 00:16:54 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 20:16:54 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <414ABFA3.1010004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414ABFA3.1010004@rogers.com> Message-ID: <414B7E76.704@rogers.com> Tom Legrady wrote: > It was the microcomputer of their larger system, which I think was > called the 9900. That one worked reasonably well because it had > sufficient speed and memory to take advantage of a "limitless set of > register sets". On the other hand, no one remembers it. > If no one remembers it, how can we be talking about it? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 02:20:14 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 22:20:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Switching Linux Distros In-Reply-To: References: <00dd01c49c2c$33686430$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> <20040917034618.GA28949@m1800> Message-ID: On Fri, 17 Sep 2004, John Vetterli wrote: > I would also suggest that you save and/or print out your X server > configuration. I would have saved myself some frustration had I done so > prior to my last re-install. Vaguely preparing for the same step: I plan to run knoppix from cd and save all the settings from there for clues later when installing properly. That would include X11, lsmod, pci, usb, hotplug setup (modules) etc. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 04:50:36 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:50:36 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <20040917152339.GE2647@smeagol> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> <20040917051056.GC28949@m1800> <20040917152339.GE2647@smeagol> Message-ID: <20040918045036.GA30150@m1800> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 11:23:39AM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote > On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 01:10:56AM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I'm also on IStop. I sent a test message to you, to check whether > > Houston is blocking IStop. Did you get the test message? > > I got this one.... You got this message via ss.org, not direct from istop.com. My test message to you, from IStop, got rejected. Output follows. Any MTA gurus here with any ideas ? > [-- Attachment #1: Notification --] > [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 0.4K --] > > This is the Postfix program at host smtp.istop.com. > > I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned > below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. > > For further assistance, please send mail to > > If you do so, please include this problem report. You can > delete your own text from the message returned below. > > The Postfix program > > : connect to mail.xtrinsic.com[66.98.212.88]: Connection > timed out > > [-- Attachment #2: Delivery error report --] > [-- Type: message/delivery-status, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 0.3K --] > > Reporting-MTA: dns; smtp.istop.com > Arrival-Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:25:25 -0400 (EDT) > > Final-Recipient: rfc822; emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org > Action: failed > Status: 4.0.0 > Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; connect to mail.xtrinsic.com[66.98.212.88]: > Connection timed out > > [-- Attachment #3: Undelivered Message --] > [-- Type: message/rfc822, Encoding: 7bit, Size: 1.6K --] > > From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org > Date: Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:25:37 -0400 > To: Emma Jane Hogbin > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: weird mail problem > Message-ID: <20040916012537.GA27915 at m1800> [...deletia...] -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 04:55:56 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 00:55:56 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414BBFDC.7060605@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi Martin, If I understand you correctly, your problem is that the device URI of the printer keeps changing (/dev/usb/lp0, /dev/usb/lp1, etc.). If this is the case, then you should take a look at UDEV and Hotplug. Together they should let you do something like: any device with the model/make or UID = whatever will be assigned to device /dev/usb/lp0 (or whatever you choose). It may require a newer kernel (2.6 preferably), but works great otherwise. I use it to manage my Jumpdrive and USB cardreader. Also does a good job at cleaning up /dev without screwing up existing coldplug devices. Martin Duclos wrote: | Hi, | | I've been have this really annoying problem with cups and usb. I have a | printer connected to the cups server with usb cable. The usb cable is | not secure on the printer end and whenever the printer moves a little, | the cable disconnects. When I reconnect the printer, the server | increments the usb id number by one and cups doesn't know about it since | the configuration file is set with a static value. The question is, is | there some utility or some way to tell the usb controller to reset? For | now the only solution I have is to reset the computer... | - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 "Don't be evil." - Google.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBS7/aRreNkzrRRLQRAr7zAJ4yAc0nsx74zKZDkPsjDKQZU/ljzgCfV2Go km7YECuKKvqcnKBs8k3MGvQ= =WqHp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 11:02:16 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:02:16 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <20040918045036.GA30150@m1800> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> <20040917051056.GC28949@m1800> <20040917152339.GE2647@smeagol> <20040918045036.GA30150@m1800> Message-ID: <20040918110216.GC8214@smeagol> On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 12:50:36AM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > You got this message via ss.org, not direct from istop.com. My test > message to you, from IStop, got rejected. Output follows. Any MTA > gurus here with any ideas ? I've forwarded this to IStop, hopefully someone there will have some ideas. :/ thanks, emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 11:53:07 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 07:53:07 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414C21A3.1030804@rogers.com> Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi, > > I've been have this really annoying problem with cups and usb. I have a > printer connected to the cups server with usb cable. The usb cable is > not secure on the printer end and whenever the printer moves a little, > the cable disconnects. When I reconnect the printer, the server > increments the usb id number by one and cups doesn't know about it since > the configuration file is set with a static value. The question is, is > there some utility or some way to tell the usb controller to reset? For > now the only solution I have is to reset the computer... Why not find some way to secure the cable? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 13:08:59 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:08:59 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040918130858.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 06:27:09PM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi, > printer connected to the cups server with usb cable. The usb cable is not > secure on the printer end and whenever the printer moves a little, the > cable disconnects. When I reconnect the printer, the server increments the > usb id number by one and cups doesn't know about it since the configuration > file is set with a static value. The question is, is there some utility or > some way to tell the usb controller to reset? For now the only solution I > have is to reset the computer... Well you can unload the uhci/ohci/ehci module (the usb root) and reload it, that makes it reset the usb controller, although you have to unload every other usb driver first I suspect. The correct thing to do would probably be to fix the usb cable problem instead. usb cables are normally pretty secure unless the cable or the port is broken. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 13:52:37 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 09:52:37 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414C3DA5.5090303@sympatico.ca> Martin Duclos wrote: > > the only solution I have is to reset the computer... Alabama Chrome, aka duct tape, will cure this. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 14:23:09 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 10:23:09 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <20040918045036.GA30150@m1800> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> <20040917051056.GC28949@m1800> <20040917152339.GE2647@smeagol> <20040918045036.GA30150@m1800> Message-ID: <20040918142309.GA523@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 12:50:36AM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > You got this message via ss.org, not direct from istop.com. My test > message to you, from IStop, got rejected. Output follows. Any MTA > gurus here with any ideas ? > > : connect to mail.xtrinsic.com[66.98.212.88]: Connection > > timed out I know that istop.com rejects emails from dialup IPs. Maybe xtrinsic.com is the one who is rejecting the connection. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 17 18:30:38 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 17 Sep 2004 14:30:38 -0400 Subject: weird mail problem In-Reply-To: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> References: <20040915035636.GB7111@smeagol> Message-ID: <200409171430.38955.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 14, 2004 11:56 pm, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > This mail does not arrive back at my laptop: > Sep 14 23:27:18 smeagol postfix/smtp[2783]: A8A8E3A5CA: > to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=11, > status=sent (250 Ok: queued as 8718117C10D) > > This mail arrives safely: > Sep 14 23:36:43 smeagol postfix/smtp[3454]: ED4D93A5CA: > to=, relay=smtp.istop.com[66.11.168.194], delay=9, > status=sent (250 Ok: queued as D53B717C260) A month ago (or more) I had a problem with my email being rejected. It turned out that if you send from a machine that is not listed as an MX for your domain then they reject your mail ... of course they don't seem to be rejecting it in your case, and I don't know if you're sending using @istop.com or @xtrinsic.com. In my case my MX was listed as georgetown.wehave.net but reverse dns had it named drcrane.tor.istop.com. It took quite a few emails to support for me to figure out what was going on ... mainly because I failed to read between the lines ;-) They changed my reverse dns and are now happily (I think) accepting my email. Note, this wasn't simply a matter of A and PTR records being mismatched (they actually weren't) they thought that only mailservers listed to receive mail (MX) should have the right to send mail ... might be a very good anti-spam measure but I would expect the false positives are high. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 16:52:24 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 12:52:24 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB Message-ID: Thanks everyone for your suggestions! I did try hot glue to secure the bable but that didn't hold stong enough. The problem is with the brinter (brother hl1435) having a longuer paper tray than the printer itself. Also, the printer is on a somewhat moveable (on a shelf that can move). Anyhow, the printer cable comes off when I close the paper tray or whenever the printer moves a little. Duct tape, is there anything it can't solve? However, I have to favor the solution about looking into hotplug and having it connect to same device number everytime. Actually, is there a good link to where I could get more info? As for the unloading all the modules, well, I tried that already and all the modules seem to be interdependant. I guess I have to figure out the order to unload them but I've already wasted enought time with that. Thanks again! Martin _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft?? SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 18:50:41 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:50:41 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <414B7DEE.2010608-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <414B7DEE.2010608@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040918185041.GD3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 08:14:38PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > John Macdonald wrote: > > >I've got the "TMS Microprocessor Data Manual" on my bookshelf, > >it is dated November 1975. > > > > I think I had (have?) one of those too. Back in the 70's, I had several > books on different CPUs. I seem to recall one, that used serial I/O for > everything, including memory. Using serial I/O to access memory is not the 9900. It had a 16-bit data bus and a 15-bit address bus (it only used 16-bit word reads and writes - I think it had to do a read/ modify/write sequence to write a byte into memory). Serial I/O only interface sounds more like the microprocessors that were aimed at device controller purposes; which had a small amount of on-chip memory that was directly accessible and only I/O interfaces to off-chip resources. There were lots of them that were variants of the 8-bit processors. The point there was to not require a memory interface and memory chips, with the corresponding interface control lines and logic chips. That kept the chip count and cost down for a device controller. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 20:04:56 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:04:56 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: <414C3DA5.5090303-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <414C3DA5.5090303@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <414C94E8.6070604@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Martin Duclos wrote: > >> >> the only solution I have is to reset the computer... > > > Alabama Chrome, aka duct tape, will cure this. A bit of epoxy or super glue might also do it. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 20:43:28 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:43:28 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: <414C94E8.6070604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414C3DA5.5090303@sympatico.ca> <414C94E8.6070604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8eb589e040918134365efa9f5@mail.gmail.com> why dont you try using an extension cable?? then somehow keep the two connections securely together? On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:04:56 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Martin Duclos wrote: > > > >> > >> the only solution I have is to reset the computer... > > > > > > Alabama Chrome, aka duct tape, will cure this. > > A bit of epoxy or super glue might also do it. ;-) > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 20:52:48 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 16:52:48 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <20040918185041.GD3941-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <414B7DEE.2010608@rogers.com> <20040918185041.GD3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <8eb589e040918135234ab856a@mail.gmail.com> this might be a stupid question but... what is better? pentium 4 with hyperthreading or AMD64? On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:50:41 -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 08:14:38PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > > John Macdonald wrote: > > > > >I've got the "TMS Microprocessor Data Manual" on my bookshelf, > > >it is dated November 1975. > > > > > > > I think I had (have?) one of those too. Back in the 70's, I had several > > books on different CPUs. I seem to recall one, that used serial I/O for > > everything, including memory. > > Using serial I/O to access memory is not the 9900. It had > a 16-bit data bus and a 15-bit address bus (it only used > 16-bit word reads and writes - I think it had to do a read/ > modify/write sequence to write a byte into memory). > > Serial I/O only interface sounds more like the microprocessors > that were aimed at device controller purposes; which had a > small amount of on-chip memory that was directly accessible > and only I/O interfaces to off-chip resources. There were lots > of them that were variants of the 8-bit processors. The point > there was to not require a memory interface and memory chips, > with the corresponding interface control lines and logic chips. > That kept the chip count and cost down for a device controller. > > -- > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 21:16:38 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:16:38 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <8eb589e040918135234ab856a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <414B7DEE.2010608@rogers.com> <20040918185041.GD3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <8eb589e040918135234ab856a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <414CA5B6.6070000@rogers.com> What's that got to do with ancient CPUs? ;-) jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > this might be a stupid question but... what is better? pentium 4 with > hyperthreading or AMD64? > > > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:50:41 -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > >>On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 08:14:38PM -0400, James Knott wrote: >> >>>John Macdonald wrote: >>> >>> >>>>I've got the "TMS Microprocessor Data Manual" on my bookshelf, >>>>it is dated November 1975. >>>> >>> >>>I think I had (have?) one of those too. Back in the 70's, I had several >>>books on different CPUs. I seem to recall one, that used serial I/O for >>>everything, including memory. >> >>Using serial I/O to access memory is not the 9900. It had >>a 16-bit data bus and a 15-bit address bus (it only used >>16-bit word reads and writes - I think it had to do a read/ >>modify/write sequence to write a byte into memory). >> >>Serial I/O only interface sounds more like the microprocessors >>that were aimed at device controller purposes; which had a >>small amount of on-chip memory that was directly accessible >>and only I/O interfaces to off-chip resources. There were lots >>of them that were variants of the 8-bit processors. The point >>there was to not require a memory interface and memory chips, >>with the corresponding interface control lines and logic chips. >>That kept the chip count and cost down for a device controller. >> >>-- >> >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 21:17:29 2004 From: StreetSmart2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (StreetSmart) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:17:29 -0400 Subject: lilo. Message-ID: <001201c49dc4$e843ba00$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> After installing mandrake 10, the bootloader (lilo) had more options then before. It added "Old windows" and i a few more options. I checked the lilo.conf but it was the same as before, nothing as added. Also, I get an error when I try to enter windows with the "windows" option. I have to use the "old windows" option to boot into windows. If you could tell me were the config file is that would be great. StreetSmart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 18 21:46:34 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:46:34 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <414CA5B6.6070000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <414B7DEE.2010608@rogers.com> <20040918185041.GD3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <8eb589e040918135234ab856a@mail.gmail.com> <414CA5B6.6070000@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8eb589e04091814464101b156@mail.gmail.com> can you tell I know nothing On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:16:38 -0400, James Knott wrote: > What's that got to do with ancient CPUs? ;-) > > > > > jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > this might be a stupid question but... what is better? pentium 4 with > > hyperthreading or AMD64? > > > > > > On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 14:50:41 -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > > > >>On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 08:14:38PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >> > >>>John Macdonald wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>>>I've got the "TMS Microprocessor Data Manual" on my bookshelf, > >>>>it is dated November 1975. > >>>> > >>> > >>>I think I had (have?) one of those too. Back in the 70's, I had several > >>>books on different CPUs. I seem to recall one, that used serial I/O for > >>>everything, including memory. > >> > >>Using serial I/O to access memory is not the 9900. It had > >>a 16-bit data bus and a 15-bit address bus (it only used > >>16-bit word reads and writes - I think it had to do a read/ > >>modify/write sequence to write a byte into memory). > >> > >>Serial I/O only interface sounds more like the microprocessors > >>that were aimed at device controller purposes; which had a > >>small amount of on-chip memory that was directly accessible > >>and only I/O interfaces to off-chip resources. There were lots > >>of them that were variants of the 8-bit processors. The point > >>there was to not require a memory interface and memory chips, > >>with the corresponding interface control lines and logic chips. > >>That kept the chip count and cost down for a device controller. > >> > >>-- > >> > >> > >>-- > >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 02:29:57 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:29:57 -0400 Subject: CUPS and USB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414CEF25.7080705@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Martin Duclos wrote: | Duct tape, is there anything it can't solve? However, I have to favor | the solution about looking into hotplug and having it connect to same | device number everytime. Actually, is there a good link to where I could | get more info? For information about hotplug, see http://linux-hotplug.sourceforge.net You probably don't really need to know those details unless you want to run some script when the printer is plugged in. Your distribution should have a package you can install to get hotplug to work. Again, you should use a recent 2.6 kernel for udev to work properly, as well as hotplug support in the kernel. What you are really interested in, is "udev". It basically takes over managing you /dev (or any other directory you choose) by creating and deleting device nodes in response to hotplug events. If there is a package for you distribution to install udev, you should use that. I know the Debian package installs and sets up udev flawlessly for me. If you can, configure udev to manage a test directory (like /udev) to make sure it works, before using it on the real /dev directory). Unfortunately, udev documentation is scarce. Once you have udev working, it's a matter of adding a rule file to (on Debian) /etc/udev/rules.d/ and specifying a naming option. Check the udev manpage when you get there. You can get the hotplug and udev tarballs from: http://www.kernel.org/pub/linux/utils/kernel/hotplug/ Be sure to read the FAQ at the end of that directory listing. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBTO8jRreNkzrRRLQRAqHBAJ9cKkragAT8m6sekPkvyNp6ISTJYgCdHt1Y 0V5elZPK+kNrTivH3qA3Jnw= =qS3F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 14:28:34 2004 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:28:34 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <414CEF25.7080705-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: Message-ID: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> I'm looking for someone who attends regular TLUG and NTLUG meetings who would be interested in working with me in a voluntary capacity to help bring Novell Linux literature to group meetings. There are some perks such as free stuff but I want someone who is committed to staying the long course not just a couple months. Please see contact page at the bottom of http://www.TorontoNUI.ca. Regards, Rick Tomaschuk Toronto Area Novell Users Group http://www.TorontoNUI.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 14:43:49 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:43:49 -0400 Subject: lilo. In-Reply-To: <001201c49dc4$e843ba00$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> References: <001201c49dc4$e843ba00$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> Message-ID: <414D9B25.2030909@canada.com> You have to provide us with more information. I understand that you have, on the same machine, 2 OSes: Mandrake and Windows. Are the two OSes on the same disk or do you have several of them? Then could you post your lilo config file so we can check it? Thanks, Gilles StreetSmart wrote: > After installing mandrake 10, the bootloader (lilo) had more options > then before. It added "Old windows" and i a few more options. I > checked the lilo.conf but it was the same as before, nothing as added. > Also, I get an error when I try to enter windows with the "windows" > option. I have to use the "old windows" option to boot into windows. > If you could tell me were the config file is that would be great. > > StreetSmart -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 15:09:52 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:09:52 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> References: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> Message-ID: <20040919150952.GA419@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 10:28:34AM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I'm looking for someone who attends regular TLUG and NTLUG meetings > who would be interested in working with me in a voluntary capacity to > help bring Novell Linux literature to group meetings. There are some > perks such as free stuff but I want someone who is committed to > staying the long course not just a couple months. Please see contact > page at the bottom of http://www.TorontoNUI.ca. Regards, This is a job for Novell employee or parttime contract. If they want parttimer - $30 per hour, 5 hours per meetings, 2 meetings per month, - $10 parking per meeting - the total comes to $320/month, then let's talk. However, if Novell is not interested in promoting their own stuffs, why do we have to carry their baggages? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 15:48:02 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 11:48:02 -0400 Subject: 64-bit CPU In-Reply-To: <8eb589e040918135234ab856a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <414A452B.8060605@rogers.com> <20040917050422.GC3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <414B7DEE.2010608@rogers.com> <20040918185041.GD3941@lupus.perlwolf.com> <8eb589e040918135234ab856a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040919154802.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Sep 18, 2004 at 04:52:48PM -0400, jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > this might be a stupid question but... what is better? pentium 4 with > hyperthreading or AMD64? Better at what? Some things favour the P4 architectures raw clock speeds of over 3GHz, some favour the efficient instructions per clock that the amd can turn out. Based on benchmarks (synthetic and real) that I have seen, the amd64 tends to just outrun the P4 (top of each model range) on most things in 32bit mode, and the amd64 tends to be quite a bit faster when in 64bit mode, although not much 64bit software is around to test with yet. An Athlon64 vs Pentium-M would be a more fair comparison. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 17:34:22 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 13:34:22 -0400 Subject: lilo. In-Reply-To: <414D9B25.2030909-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <001201c49dc4$e843ba00$6501a8c0@k4d8m1> <414D9B25.2030909@canada.com> Message-ID: <31f5947d04091910342b9010ce@mail.gmail.com> I have my Windows On C: And mandrake on H: Here is lilo.conf boot=/dev/hda map=/boot/map default="linux" keytable=/boot/us.klt prompt nowarn timeout=100 message=/boot/message menu-scheme=wb:bw:wb:bw image=/boot/vmlinuz label="linux" root=/dev/hdb6 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi acpi=ht splash=silent" vga=788 read-only image=/boot/vmlinuz label="linux-nonfb" root=/dev/hdb6 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi acpi=ht" read-only image=/boot/vmlinuz label="failsafe" root=/dev/hdb6 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=nomount hdd=ide-scsi acpi=ht failsafe" read-only other=/dev/hda1 label="windows" table=/dev/hda other=/dev/fd0 label="floppy" unsafe ----- Original Message ----- From: Gilles Fourchet Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 10:43:49 -0400 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: lilo. To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org You have to provide us with more information. I understand that you have, on the same machine, 2 OSes: Mandrake and Windows. Are the two OSes on the same disk or do you have several of them? Then could you post your lilo config file so we can check it? Thanks, Gilles StreetSmart wrote: After installing mandrake 10, the bootloader (lilo) had more options then before. It added "Old windows" and i a few more options. I checked the lilo.conf but it was the same as before, nothing as added. Also, I get an error when I try to enter windows with the "windows" option. I have to use the "old windows" option to boot into windows. If you could tell me were the config file is that would be great. StreetSmart -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 22:01:46 2004 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:01:46 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <20040919150952.GA419-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> Message-ID: <414DC98A.29342.56844ED@localhost> My interest is not to promote Novell or SUSE but rather Linux and TorontoNUI.ca as an education club and resource. No one has a problem seeing IBM everywhere. See NUI, Novell Users International, http://www.nuinet.com . Why would I pay you more than I receive? Regards, Rick Tomaschuk http://www.TorontoNUI.ca On 19 Sep 2004 at 11:09, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 10:28:34AM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > I'm looking for someone who attends regular TLUG and NTLUG meetings > > who would be interested in working with me in a voluntary capacity to > > help bring Novell Linux literature to group meetings. There are some > > perks such as free stuff but I want someone who is committed to > > staying the long course not just a couple months. Please see contact > > page at the bottom of http://www.TorontoNUI.ca. Regards, > > This is a job for Novell employee or parttime contract. If they want > parttimer > - $30 per hour, 5 hours per meetings, 2 meetings per month, > - $10 parking per meeting > - the total comes to $320/month, > then let's talk. > > However, if Novell is not interested in promoting their own stuffs, why > do we have to carry their baggages? > > -- > William Park > Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 22:18:49 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 18:18:49 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <414DC98A.29342.56844ED@localhost> References: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> <414DC98A.29342.56844ED@localhost> Message-ID: <20040919221849.59F9E3FD1@cbbrowne.com> > My interest is not to promote Novell or SUSE but rather Linux and > TorontoNUI.ca as an education club and resource. No one has a problem > seeing IBM everywhere. See NUI, Novell Users International, > http://www.nuinet.com . Why would I pay you more than I receive? IBM has traditionally been donating real estate usage, which is worth rather a lot. NewTLUG has long met up at their location at Victoria Park and Steeles. On the flip side: What do you mean about "seeing IBM everywhere?" IBM gets mentioned a lot because they are a big player in the computing market. They are particularly interesting, of late, to people interested in Linux, because of their key role in the SCO lawsuits. On the gripping hand, I don't see people cutting IBM any extra "slack;" if they want to have someone present, promoting themselves, it's as needful for them to pay the would-be marketer as it is for Novell to do so. William raises a good point. If Novell, or IBM, or whomever, wants to have an advocate at every meeting, it seems strange that they wouldn't be prepared to pay for that. I don't see why anyone would imagine it sensible for someone to be expected to represent them for free. -- output = reverse("ofni.secnanifxunil" "@" "enworbbc") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html Customer: "I'm running Windows '95." Tech: "Yes." Customer: "My computer isn't working now." Tech: "Yes, you said that." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 19 23:20:50 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 19:20:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Odd HTML/JS question Message-ID: <33292.64.229.148.188.1095636050.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Hiya, I'm trying to get something working that has absolutely no useful purpose except that I am curious to see if it can be done... To that end I need to know if I can either tell a browser to scroll with a page as it loads (from the server) or have a table row (or something similar) be drawn above the previously drawn table cell (thus pushing the first table down). Is there anyway anyone knows that this can be done using wierd or obscure html (I doubt it) or less than insanely complex javascript? I am open to wild ideas. Thanks all!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 01:07:41 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 21:07:41 -0400 Subject: User group liaison References: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> <414DC98A.29342.56844ED@localhost> <20040919221849.59F9E3FD1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> on Sunday, September 19, 2004 6:18 PM wrote: > > My interest is not to promote Novell or SUSE but rather Linux and > > TorontoNUI.ca as an education club and resource. No one has a problem > > seeing IBM everywhere. See NUI, Novell Users International, > > http://www.nuinet.com . Why would I pay you more than I receive? > > IBM has traditionally been donating real estate usage, which is worth > rather a lot. NewTLUG has long met up at their location at Victoria > Park and Steeles. > > On the flip side: What do you mean about "seeing IBM everywhere?" IBM > gets mentioned a lot because they are a big player in the computing > market. They are particularly interesting, of late, to people > interested in Linux, because of their key role in the SCO lawsuits. > > On the gripping hand, I don't see people cutting IBM any extra "slack;" > if they want to have someone present, promoting themselves, it's as > needful for them to pay the would-be marketer as it is for Novell to do > so. William raises a good point. If Novell, or IBM, or whomever, wants > to have an advocate at every meeting, it seems strange that they > wouldn't be prepared to pay for that. I don't see why anyone would > imagine it sensible for someone to be expected to represent them for > free. What is the problem here? We have come to Linux because it is a solution to one or more problems (cheaper, and/or more reliable and/or faster and/or etc.). If Novell is offering solutions to problems I am all for it. Will the Novell material tell me how I can solve an office networking problem that I have to deal with, great I want a copy. If it is a Novell promotional pen that is comfortable to hold and writes well then I want (at least) one. As long as this Novell stuff will solve one or more problems faced by TLUG members then this is a good thing. A key element in TLUG in my books is people helping other people solve problems. I have already noted in private e-mail to Rick Tomaschuk I have no problem w ith helping by bringing free stuff to TLUG meetings, as I have already done that for several TLUG and NetTLUG meetings. Sure the stuff I have brought may not solve problems for everyone (for example the posters promoting the game "Unreal Tournament 2003" may only good for Linux game players with too much empty wall space), but they are solutions to problems. If I do end up bringing Novell stuff to TLUG meetings and I find that it doesn't solve anyone's problems then I will stop, otherwise yes I am game to do this for free (well, ok, I will be keeping for myself a copy of each item that solves a problem that I face). IBM has for the Linux community been a provider of solutions to problems (offering free software to the community world-wide, offering free meeting space locally). Novell is a late entrant to the whole solutions to problems for the Linux community, and to the extent they offer solutions to problems to the community they should be thanked. On the other hand Novell will get judged in the same way IBM is getting judged, how good are their solutions to problems. Also the stuff about the SCO <--> IBM lawsuit is a bit of a red herring, remember that SCO is also in a battle with Novell and Novell MAY end up saving IBM's bacon (if Novell can prove they still own the copyright to System V Unix then the IBM case become irrelevant as Novell has already given their blessing to what IBM has done to date). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 02:13:43 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 22:13:43 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> <414DC98A.29342.56844ED@localhost> <20040919221849.59F9E3FD1@cbbrowne.com> <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040920021343.GA508@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 09:07:41PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > What is the problem here? The problem is that OP asked for long-term committment (not one-off thing) to promote and advocate Novell at TLUG/NTL meetings. Such committment is called employment, not volunteering. In any case, TLUG should ask if OP has Novell's permission to represent them at TLUG meetings. At least, that's what I learned in my freebie seminar on corporate liability. :-) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 03:04:22 2004 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:04:22 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <20040920021343.GA508-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <414E1076.28263.67D59AC@localhost> Its obvious you have not read my previous reply William. I represent NUI as in the local chapter TorontoNUI.ca which is locally run but endorsed by NUI in Utah as an independent member of Novell Users International. Please see http://www.nuinet.com, login and check the group membership page and you will see my name and http://www.TorontoNUI.ca as the recognized affiliate in Toronto. All NUI chapters are volunteer run with member support and a small amount of sponsorship from NUI world wide which (yes) in turn is sponsored by Novell $$. So what?? I would expect some to be happy an organization such as Novell existed to counter act other market forces. They may not be perfect but I never put all my eggs in one basket either. RickT On 19 Sep 2004 at 22:13, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 09:07:41PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > What is the problem here? > > The problem is that OP asked for long-term committment (not one-off > thing) to promote and advocate Novell at TLUG/NTL meetings. Such > committment is called employment, not volunteering. > > In any case, TLUG should ask if OP has Novell's permission to represent > them at TLUG meetings. At least, that's what I learned in my freebie > seminar on corporate liability. :-) > > -- > William Park > Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 03:03:22 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:03:22 -0400 Subject: Odd HTML/JS question In-Reply-To: <33292.64.229.148.188.1095636050.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <33292.64.229.148.188.1095636050.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040920030322.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 07:20:50PM -0400, linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > I'm trying to get something working that has absolutely no useful > purpose except that I am curious to see if it can be done... To that end > I need to know if I can either tell a browser to scroll with a page as > it loads (from the server) or have a table row (or something similar) be > drawn above the previously drawn table cell (thus pushing the first > table down). > > Is there anyway anyone knows that this can be done using wierd or > obscure html (I doubt it) or less than insanely complex javascript? I am > open to wild ideas. > > Thanks all!! If you are willing to look at DHTML (dynamic html) then just about anything can be done like that. Not too hard either as far as I know (just look at the popup menus and such that people make. I think those are DHTML a lot of the time.) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 03:19:25 2004 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:19:25 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <02d101c49e5d$336dd680$4501a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <02d101c49e5d$336dd680$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <414E13FD.13986.68B2049@localhost> Let me know how I can arrange to get materials to you on the weekend. I've sent a private email to you. Regards, RickT On 19 Sep 2004 at 11:27, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well I am not a NTLUG meeting attendee, but I am a TLUG regular, and > practised at giving away free stuff at TLUG (and NewTLUG) meetings. If I can > help let me know. > > Colin McGregor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rick Tomaschuk" > To: > Sent: Sunday, September 19, 2004 10:28 AM > Subject: [TLUG]: User group liaison > > > > I'm looking for someone who attends regular TLUG and NTLUG meetings who > would > > be interested in working with me in a voluntary capacity to help bring > Novell Linux > > literature to group meetings. There are some perks such as free stuff but > I want > > someone who is committed to staying the long course not just a couple > months. > > Please see contact page at the bottom of http://www.TorontoNUI.ca. > > Regards, > > Rick Tomaschuk > > Toronto Area Novell Users Group > > http://www.TorontoNUI.ca > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 03:56:53 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 19 Sep 2004 23:56:53 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <20040920021343.GA508-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> <414DC98A.29342.56844ED@localhost> <20040919221849.59F9E3FD1@cbbrowne.com> <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20040920021343.GA508@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040920035653.A3D073FD1@cbbrowne.com> > On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 09:07:41PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > > What is the problem here? > > The problem is that OP asked for long-term committment (not one-off > thing) to promote and advocate Novell at TLUG/NTL meetings. Such > committment is called employment, not volunteering. > > In any case, TLUG should ask if OP has Novell's permission to represent > them at TLUG meetings. At least, that's what I learned in my freebie > seminar on corporate liability. :-) Corporate liability is indeed a big question. If someone is to be the "mouthpiece of Novell", or for IBM, or for any other such organization, it is needful for them to be a formal representative of the corporation in question. This fairly much mandates that they be an employee of the corporation. If they aren't, then this introduces the substantial business risk that a "representative" that they do not have control over may utter statements that introduce liability to the corporation. -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','ntlug.org'). http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/lisp.html I just removed the instructions in MC:COMMON;LINS > which specify that it should be installed on AI. We'll certainly miss that machine, and probably spend the rest of our lives fixing programs that mention it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 04:30:34 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? Message-ID: A low-tech :-) friend of mine asked me to inquire about this... He's got a couple of CDs that are physically broken. (Shouldn't have put them in checked baggage...) They're not mass-market items, and it would be difficult to replace them without repeating some fairly expensive travels. Anybody know of an outfit hereabouts that could recover their contents, either as data files or as duplicate disks? (These are music CDs, as it happens, but I've come close to needing this once or twice for damaged CDROMs, and now he's got me curious too.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 04:38:33 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:38:33 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <414E1076.28263.67D59AC@localhost> References: <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <414E1076.28263.67D59AC@localhost> Message-ID: <20040920043833.GA649@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 11:04:22PM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > I would expect some to be happy an organization such as Novell existed > to counter act other market forces. They may not be perfect but I > never put all my eggs in one basket either. I welcome Novell's talk at TLUG. If they want to send their representative to TLUG, I'd attend for sure. But, you're asking for Linux volunteer to do what paid employee should do. I'm mystified as to why you think this is good for Linux and those working with Linux. Because, the underlying tone in Novell's (to lesser extent in IBM's) marketing literature has been: "These guys are amateurs. Bunch of volunteers looking for jobs. They are not serious. They are not ready for business world. We Novell, on the other hand, mean business." This is to be expected in any business where there are competitors vying for world domination. Microsoft is explicitly saying that about Linux right now. I guess, Microsoft is right... -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 05:28:20 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 01:28:20 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 00:30:34 -0400 (EDT), Henry Spencer wrote: > He's got a couple of CDs that are physically broken. (Shouldn't have put > them in checked baggage...) They're not mass-market items, and it would If they're snapped, you may be SOL. If they're just scratched, I've seen "restorative" compound used to make a disc re-readable. It seems to work somewhat like a cross between a Zamboni and car wax: apply the cream, spread it around, let it dry, polish it off. It usually leaves the surface of the disc a bit milky, but that doesn't seem to affect the readability (or at least it tends to be much more readable after than before). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 09:56:26 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 05:56:26 -0400 Subject: User group liaison In-Reply-To: <20040920035653.A3D073FD1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <414D5F52.20098.3C94899@localhost> <414DC98A.29342.56844ED@localhost> <20040919221849.59F9E3FD1@cbbrowne.com> <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20040920021343.GA508@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040920035653.A3D073FD1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <414EA94A.4020604@rogers.com> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Corporate liability is indeed a big question. > > If someone is to be the "mouthpiece of Novell", or for IBM, or for any > other such organization, it is needful for them to be a formal > representative of the corporation in question. > > This fairly much mandates that they be an employee of the corporation. > > If they aren't, then this introduces the substantial business risk that > a "representative" that they do not have control over may utter > statements that introduce liability to the corporation. That occasionally happened, back in the "Team OS/2" days. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 11:47:36 2004 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 07:47:36 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? Message-ID: Henry, How badly are we talking. If single cracked, I've had success in recovering portions of the data on it however, if it's two or more separate pieces, you are likely SOL, though I can't say I've done that to even say if it'd work or not. Drop a line off forum and we can talk. D. Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Henry Spencer Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:31 AM To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: [TLUG]: CD data recovery? A low-tech :-) friend of mine asked me to inquire about this... He's got a couple of CDs that are physically broken. (Shouldn't have put them in checked baggage...) They're not mass-market items, and it would be difficult to replace them without repeating some fairly expensive travels. Anybody know of an outfit hereabouts that could recover their contents, either as data files or as duplicate disks? (These are music CDs, as it happens, but I've come close to needing this once or twice for damaged CDROMs, and now he's got me curious too.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 12:34:08 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 08:34:08 -0400 Subject: User group liaison References: <003e01c49eae$3acf9fc0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <414E1076.28263.67D59AC@localhost> <20040920043833.GA649@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <004d01c49f0e$203acee0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Well, it looks like I'll be bringing the Novell stuff to some TLUG meetings. >From my point of view I will not be acting as a Novell rep., as quite frankly I don't care one way-or-the other about Novell. What I see myself doing is distributing a corporate donation to the members of TLUG, not unlike say the IBM staffers who periodically pass out copies "Linux Journal". Yes, the IBM people get some promo out of all this, but it is also making a useful resource available to the community. The extent of my pitching will be along the lines of announcing at the start of the meeting "I have some copies of a Novell magazine available for anyone who wants it. If you do want a copy they are in a pile here, and help yourself.". If nobody is interested then I will stop, if there is interest, I will continue, simple, easy... In other words if they are helping us, I will help them. Oh, in case anyone is interested, I do NOT run Novell/SUSE at home or work (I do run RedHat, Debian and for my router, Coyote Linux) and I have NO plans to run Novell/SUSE in the foreseeable future... Colin McGregor ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Park" To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:38 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: User group liaison > On Sun, Sep 19, 2004 at 11:04:22PM -0400, Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > > I would expect some to be happy an organization such as Novell existed > > to counter act other market forces. They may not be perfect but I > > never put all my eggs in one basket either. > > I welcome Novell's talk at TLUG. If they want to send their > representative to TLUG, I'd attend for sure. > > But, you're asking for Linux volunteer to do what paid employee should > do. I'm mystified as to why you think this is good for Linux and those > working with Linux. Because, the underlying tone in Novell's (to lesser > extent in IBM's) marketing literature has been: > "These guys are amateurs. Bunch of volunteers looking for jobs. > They are not serious. They are not ready for business world. We > Novell, on the other hand, mean business." > > This is to be expected in any business where there are competitors vying > for world domination. Microsoft is explicitly saying that about Linux > right now. I guess, Microsoft is right... > > -- > William Park > Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 13:13:55 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 09:13:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > > He's got a couple of CDs that are physically broken... > > If they're snapped, you may be SOL. If they're just scratched... I haven't seen them, but my impression is multiple pieces, not just scratches. Definitely a job for a specialist, not a do-it-yourself project. > ...seen "restorative" compound used to make a disc re-readable. Yeah, surface scratches on the bottom can generally just be polished off. Local defects on the bottom surface are not that bad, because the data layer is just under the *top* of the disk, so the bottom surface is out of focus to the reading laser. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gary.major-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 17:08:14 2004 From: gary.major-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Major) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:08:14 -0400 Subject: Sendmail Configuration Message-ID: <003a01c49f34$6a769a90$eb2b1b31@tdbfg0fo2wxkyo> Good day folks, Am trying to get sendmail working with SMTP AUTH to connect to rogers.com business service. I have googled for the past couple of days and have found a few tech notes on getting it to work, but to no avail. I am able to send email from the email client, and it is recieved by my local mail server which in turns sends it out to Rogers SMTP server, but it gets bounced back saying that I failed to authenticate error 530. The maillog reports an error message "Stat: Service Unavailable" I am use Sendmail 8.12.x on RH 9.0. I am a Sendmail newbie and not sure if I have all the required information in the sendmail.mc file. I have created an authinfo file as described, but not sure if it is picking it up correctly etc. I am not at the home, so can't post any config files, but wondering if there is any informatoin/howto etc. that someone can point me to that will help get this working. Many thanks. Gary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 17:35:19 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:35:19 -0400 Subject: Odd HTML/JS question In-Reply-To: <33292.64.229.148.188.1095636050.squirrel-GqYTezIbEURL1Y7jC+g/Zg@public.gmane.org> References: <33292.64.229.148.188.1095636050.squirrel@mail.alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1095701719.14308.45.camel@192.168.1.80> On Sun, 2004-09-19 at 19:20, linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hiya, > > I'm trying to get something working that has absolutely no useful > purpose except that I am curious to see if it can be done... To that end > I need to know if I can either tell a browser to scroll with a page as > it loads (from the server) or have a table row (or something similar) be > drawn above the previously drawn table cell (thus pushing the first > table down). > > Is there anyway anyone knows that this can be done using wierd or > obscure html (I doubt it) or less than insanely complex javascript? I am > open to wild ideas. > > Thanks all!! > > Madison > -- Hey Madison, I don't know if I totally understand what you want, but you can scroll a window by using the window.scrollBy(dx,dy) dx being the number of pixels to scroll to the right and dy the number of pixels down. There is also the window.scrollTo(x,y). x is the x-coordinate to appear at the left edge and y is the y-coordinate that appears at the top of the window. As for the adding tables dynamically with js, you can use an elements innerHTML, innerText and there are a few others...but they can't be done until the page has fully loaded. Hope that helps. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 18:42:25 2004 From: jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jamiil) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:42:25 -0700 Subject: Which email address Message-ID: Ya, one question only: What is the email address to which I supposed to post my queions to? Thanks man! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 18:55:45 2004 From: b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B Arquette) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:55:45 -0400 Subject: Which email address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The same addy you sent this too will do fine. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jamiil Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 11:42:25 -0700 Subject: [TLUG]: Which email address To: tlug-rules-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Ya, one question only: What is the email address to which I supposed to post my queions to? Thanks man! -- Occational Random Thoughts brought to you at barquette.blogspot.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 18:58:23 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 14:58:23 -0400 Subject: Sendmail Configuration Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121EA18@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Does this help? http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/answers/269 Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406 FAX www.LynchDigital.com ________________________________ From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Gary Major Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 1:08 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Sendmail Configuration Good day folks, Am trying to get sendmail working with SMTP AUTH to connect to rogers.com business service. I have googled for the past couple of days and have found a few tech notes on getting it to work, but to no avail. I am able to send email from the email client, and it is recieved by my local mail server which in turns sends it out to Rogers SMTP server, but it gets bounced back saying that I failed to authenticate error 530. The maillog reports an error message "Stat: Service Unavailable" I am use Sendmail 8.12.x on RH 9.0. I am a Sendmail newbie and not sure if I have all the required information in the sendmail.mc file. I have created an authinfo file as described, but not sure if it is picking it up correctly etc. I am not at the home, so can't post any config files, but wondering if there is any informatoin/howto etc. that someone can point me to that will help get this working. Many thanks. Gary. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: image001.jpg Type: image/jpeg Size: 3513 bytes Desc: image001.jpg URL: From jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 19:01:10 2004 From: jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jamiil) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:01:10 -0700 Subject: Linux Stores? References: Message-ID: Does anyone know any store where I can get Linux Debian's CD? TIA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 19:02:16 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:02:16 -0400 Subject: TM Server Message-ID: I have selected no hardware or software yet. Below are my ideas, please read them and reply to the TLUG list or myself with your ideas and advice. I thank you all, I'll be sure to be at the next meeting! I missed the last one just 2 days ago! Ack! /teddy PS: I know O'Reilly has a book out called Managing RAID on Linux. Im getting that book asap. ********* FUNCTION: ********* To build a LINUX MYSQL4 production server to handle from 100-5000 small(<1k) database transactions daily. Mission critical. Downtime to be minimized as much as possible during the day. Nothing else, thats it. A system that is as bulletproof as possible, against downtime, but doesnt cost the moon. ***************** OS and software: ***************** Redhat Enterprise AS or Fedora Core 2 ? I am open to any OS, but I am leaning towards using Fedora Core 2. I dont see anything in Enterprise Server AS that will help me. All software will be the latest open source versions of MySQL4, maybe Samba compiled from tar sources. *********** RAID *********** I am going to use a SCSI RAID and SCSI drives, so I am not going to use any software RAIDs or IDE drives. I dont want to have to boot into Linux just to get access to the RAID drives, if possible. I would like the Linux OS to be inside the RAID, but if that is not possible, then just the RAID to hold the MySQL data in say in /dev/sdb1. That means I assume my booting Linux OS would reside on say a 4GB IDE. hmmm. I thought about RAID 5, but I think I am going with a RAID1. RAID1 is secure reliable and fast. Just kinda slow on the writes. Im okay with that. A RAID 5 means dropping 1 or 2 G's on the extra large capacity SCSI drives. Im going with a SCSI RAID1, unless convinced otherwise. I am leaning towards the MEGARAID 1600 SCSI RAID CONTROLLER and 3 80GB SCSI drives. I am kind of stuck, maybe I should use a IDE SATA-RAID1 solution from PROMISE. If a IDE-based system can saturate our internet connection why bother with SCSI? ************ RAID FORMAT ************ Since I only have 2 drives to worry about both will fit inside the PC, so no external closure is needed. However a RAID enclosure, with hotswappable and standbys would be better. Even better would be a cheap, but decent hot-swappable system that does RAID1, but I cant seem to find any. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 19:12:25 2004 From: jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jamiil) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:12:25 -0700 Subject: I have a P3 Message-ID: I have a P3 running MSWxp, What updates should I make before installing Debian? I know that the WinModem's got a go, but what else? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 19:36:12 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:36:12 -0400 Subject: I have a P3 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040920193611.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 12:12:25PM -0700, Jamiil wrote: > I have a P3 running MSWxp, What updates should I make before installing > Debian? I know that the WinModem's got a go, but what else? Are we supposed to physicly know what hardware you have? :) Some winmodems can even work under linux (ltmodem at least) but they are more work and always take more cpu to run of course, and they are kind of a pain. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 19:40:09 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:40:09 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 03:02:16PM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > > I have selected no hardware or software yet. > > Below are my ideas, please read them and reply to the TLUG list or myself > with your > ideas and advice. I thank you all, I'll be sure to be at the next meeting! > I missed the last one just 2 days ago! Ack! > > /teddy > > PS: > I know O'Reilly has a book out called Managing RAID on Linux. Im getting > that book asap. > > > ********* > FUNCTION: > ********* > To build a LINUX MYSQL4 production server to handle from 100-5000 small(<1k) > database transactions daily. > Mission critical. Downtime to be minimized as much as possible during the > day. Nothing else, thats it. > A system that is as bulletproof as possible, against downtime, but doesnt > cost the moon. > > > ***************** > OS and software: > ***************** > Redhat Enterprise AS or Fedora Core 2 ? > I am open to any OS, but I am leaning towards using Fedora Core 2. > I dont see anything in Enterprise Server AS that will help me. > All software will be the latest open source versions of > MySQL4, maybe Samba compiled from tar sources. Well that could work for that as far as I know. > *********** > RAID > *********** > I am going to use a SCSI RAID and SCSI drives, so I am not going to use any > software RAIDs or IDE drives. I dont want to have to boot into Linux just > to get access > to the RAID drives, if possible. > > I would like the Linux OS to be inside the RAID, but if that is not > possible, > then just the RAID to hold the MySQL data in say in /dev/sdb1. > That means I assume my booting Linux OS would reside on say a 4GB IDE. hmmm. Well it would be much cheaper to get a 3ware raid card and use SATA drives, Better performance than scsi raids in general for a lot less money, and excellent support in both Linux and Windows. No problem running the whole system for the raid on one of those. > I thought about RAID 5, but I think I am going with a RAID1. RAID1 is secure > reliable and fast. Just kinda slow on the writes. Im okay with that. A RAID > 5 > means dropping 1 or 2 G's on the extra large capacity SCSI drives. Raid 5 uses less space than raid1, and has the advantage of striping too. It just requires more disks to setup (but you get more space too). raid5 with 2 drives is raid1 of course. So raid1 is essentially just a special case of raid5. > Im going with a SCSI RAID1, unless convinced otherwise. > I am leaning towards the MEGARAID 1600 SCSI RAID CONTROLLER and 3 80GB SCSI > drives. > > I am kind of stuck, maybe I should use a IDE SATA-RAID1 solution from > PROMISE. > If a IDE-based system can saturate our internet connection why bother with > SCSI? Don't go near promise. It's junk, lousy linux support, and most of their cards are proprietary software raid. Bad idea. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 19:42:19 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:42:19 -0400 Subject: Linux Stores? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040920194219.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 12:01:10PM -0700, Jamiil wrote: > Does anyone know any store where I can get Linux Debian's CD? Which version? www.cheapbytes.com has 3.0 (stable) [released about 2 years ago], while I doubt any store has the weekly builds of testing (due to release any time now). Or you get someone with bandwidth to make you a cd (or dvd) set. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 19:58:10 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 12:58:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Which email address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040920195810.72386.qmail@web40705.mail.yahoo.com> tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org --- Jamiil wrote: > Ya, one question only: What is the email address to which I supposed to post > my queions to? > > Thanks man! > ===== If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? by: Hillel 100 BCE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:14:55 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:14:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <20040920194009.GR8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040920201455.79592.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> About Linux MySQL server, I would suggest: 1. Better hardware than fancy technology such as Raid The rule is that the simple the better. If you have a good hard drive, you cannot break it for 20 years. Why bother with these fancy stuff? I suggest you choose the best every piece of hardware. 2. Stable software better than the latest buggy version. The simple the more stable. The more function the more problems. 3. Never use anything else except Slackware Linux. It is a crazy stable distribution. You start your project on a 32MB Slackware computer, test out then move to your new server. 4. Usually, software has more fuction than you want, such as MySQL. Based on this, I suggest you buy a best HP low end server better than top end desktop. --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 03:02:16PM -0400, Teddy > Mills wrote: > > > > I have selected no hardware or software yet. > > > > Below are my ideas, please read them and reply to > the TLUG list or myself > > with your > > ideas and advice. I thank you all, I'll be sure > to be at the next meeting! > > I missed the last one just 2 days ago! Ack! > > > > /teddy > > > > PS: > > I know O'Reilly has a book out called Managing > RAID on Linux. Im getting > > that book asap. > > > > > > ********* > > FUNCTION: > > ********* > > To build a LINUX MYSQL4 production server to > handle from 100-5000 small(<1k) > > database transactions daily. > > Mission critical. Downtime to be minimized as much > as possible during the > > day. Nothing else, thats it. > > A system that is as bulletproof as possible, > against downtime, but doesnt > > cost the moon. > > > > > > ***************** > > OS and software: > > ***************** > > Redhat Enterprise AS or Fedora Core 2 ? > > I am open to any OS, but I am leaning towards > using Fedora Core 2. > > I dont see anything in Enterprise Server AS that > will help me. > > All software will be the latest open source > versions of > > MySQL4, maybe Samba compiled from tar sources. > > Well that could work for that as far as I know. > > > *********** > > RAID > > *********** > > I am going to use a SCSI RAID and SCSI drives, so > I am not going to use any > > software RAIDs or IDE drives. I dont want to have > to boot into Linux just > > to get access > > to the RAID drives, if possible. > > > > I would like the Linux OS to be inside the RAID, > but if that is not > > possible, > > then just the RAID to hold the MySQL data in say > in /dev/sdb1. > > That means I assume my booting Linux OS would > reside on say a 4GB IDE. hmmm. > > Well it would be much cheaper to get a 3ware raid > card and use SATA > drives, Better performance than scsi raids in > general for a lot less > money, and excellent support in both Linux and > Windows. > > No problem running the whole system for the raid on > one of those. > > > I thought about RAID 5, but I think I am going > with a RAID1. RAID1 is secure > > reliable and fast. Just kinda slow on the writes. > Im okay with that. A RAID > > 5 > > means dropping 1 or 2 G's on the extra large > capacity SCSI drives. > > Raid 5 uses less space than raid1, and has the > advantage of striping > too. It just requires more disks to setup (but you > get more space too). > raid5 with 2 drives is raid1 of course. So raid1 is > essentially just a > special case of raid5. > > > Im going with a SCSI RAID1, unless convinced > otherwise. > > I am leaning towards the MEGARAID 1600 SCSI RAID > CONTROLLER and 3 80GB SCSI > > drives. > > > > I am kind of stuck, maybe I should use a IDE > SATA-RAID1 solution from > > PROMISE. > > If a IDE-based system can saturate our internet > connection why bother with > > SCSI? > > Don't go near promise. It's junk, lousy linux > support, and most of their > cards are proprietary software raid. Bad idea. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:22:44 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:22:44 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > A low-tech :-) friend of mine asked me to inquire about this... > > He's got a couple of CDs that are physically broken. (Shouldn't have put > them in checked baggage...) They're not mass-market items, and it would > be difficult to replace them without repeating some fairly expensive > travels. Anybody know of an outfit hereabouts that could recover their > contents, either as data files or as duplicate disks? > > (These are music CDs, as it happens, but I've come close to needing this > once or twice for damaged CDROMs, and now he's got me curious too.) I've never heard of such as service, and you can be sure it would be very expensive, if even possible. Anyone attempting such a recovery would have to rejoin the pieces, to extremely close tolerances. Even then they'd still have problems recovering the data. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:24:34 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 20 Sep 2004 16:24:34 -0400 Subject: I'm a corporate shill, too In-Reply-To: <20040920193611.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040920193611.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Sorry, that's for the TLUG guys :) Anyway, there's a NewTLUG meeting on the 28th this month on Lego Mindstorm. I have 5 books on that topic from APress to give out plus some t-shirts. Only catch on the books is that you have to promise to write a book review. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:26:30 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:26:30 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <20040920201455.79592.qmail-fWN3QUsmKNiA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920201455.79592.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040920202630.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 01:14:55PM -0700, Frank Peng wrote: > About Linux MySQL server, I would suggest: > > 1. Better hardware than fancy technology such as Raid > The rule is that the simple the better. If you have a > good hard drive, you cannot break it for 20 years. Why > bother with these fancy stuff? I suggest you choose > the best every piece of hardware. Unbreakable harddrive? Where do you buy one of those? (or in other words that sounds like a load of crap). > 2. Stable software better than the latest buggy > version. The simple the more stable. The more function > the more problems. That is certainly true. I would need a good reason to use apache 2.x over 1.3 myself. Similar for other software. > 3. Never use anything else except Slackware Linux. It > is a crazy stable distribution. You start your project > on a 32MB Slackware computer, test out then move to > your new server. Some of us have better things to do... > 4. Usually, software has more fuction than you want, > such as MySQL. > > Based on this, I suggest you buy a best HP low end > server better than top end desktop. Hmm, never personally found HP to make particularly good hardware, but that's my taste I guess. I don't even like brand name complete systems much. Well HP does make some durable hardware, I just don't like the way it works by design. It is often going to keep working the same anoying but reliable way for ever though. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:27:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:27:39 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <414F3C14.40809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040920202739.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:22:44PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Henry Spencer wrote: > >A low-tech :-) friend of mine asked me to inquire about this... > > > >He's got a couple of CDs that are physically broken. (Shouldn't have put > >them in checked baggage...) They're not mass-market items, and it would > >be difficult to replace them without repeating some fairly expensive > >travels. Anybody know of an outfit hereabouts that could recover their > >contents, either as data files or as duplicate disks? > > > >(These are music CDs, as it happens, but I've come close to needing this > >once or twice for damaged CDROMs, and now he's got me curious too.) > > I've never heard of such as service, and you can be sure it would be > very expensive, if even possible. Anyone attempting such a recovery > would have to rejoin the pieces, to extremely close tolerances. Even > then they'd still have problems recovering the data. I wonder if someone could scan the cd surface at very high resolution (maybe with a laser beam) and then take the scans of each piece and lign up the tracks that way and create a virtual cd image and recover the data from that. Hmmm. Does sound expensive. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:28:43 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:28:43 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <414F3C14.40809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> Message-ID: Naturally gmail has decided to be helpful, and provided a relevant link: http://www.acodisc.com Good luck! (your friend will need it; that and it'd probably still be cheaper to go and re-travel to get new discs rather than go through a data recovery house) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:31:01 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:31:01 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <20040920202630.GT8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920201455.79592.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> <20040920202630.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:26:30 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > 4. Usually, software has more fuction than you want, > > such as MySQL. > > > > Based on this, I suggest you buy a best HP low end > > server better than top end desktop. > > Hmm, never personally found HP to make particularly good hardware, but > that's my taste I guess. I don't even like brand name complete systems > much. Well HP does make some durable hardware, I just don't like the > way it works by design. It is often going to keep working the same > anoying but reliable way for ever though. I would personally avoid any HP desktop machine on the basis that they're fugly proprietary plastic toys. I don't know about their PC servers. I have seen some of the old HPPA workstations...THOSE were cool (or hot, depending; that dual 180MHz box with a 1200W power supply probably has a non-trivial BTU rating). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:41:00 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:41:00 -0400 Subject: TM Server-stable In-Reply-To: <20040920202630.GT8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040920202630.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: I like the part about where Im describing the reliability of the system. "Is it stable?, man! its crazy stable!" :) -----Original Message----- > 3. Never use anything else except Slackware Linux. It > is a crazy stable distribution. You start your project > on a 32MB Slackware computer, test out then move to > your new server. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 03:52:13 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <20040920202739.GU8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> <20040920202739.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I wonder if someone could scan the cd surface at very high resolution > (maybe with a laser beam) and then take the scans of each piece and lign > up the tracks that way and create a virtual cd image and recover the > data from that. Hmmm. Does sound expensive. How much do you expect to pay for that service ? ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:51:00 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:51:00 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> <20040920202739.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040920205100.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 11:52:13PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >I wonder if someone could scan the cd surface at very high resolution > >(maybe with a laser beam) and then take the scans of each piece and lign > >up the tracks that way and create a virtual cd image and recover the > >data from that. Hmmm. Does sound expensive. > > How much do you expect to pay for that service ? ;-) Hmm, if there was demand enough for it they might be able to do that for maybe $1000 or $5000 or something. No clue really. Better be an important CD. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:51:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:51:36 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040920205136.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:28:43PM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > Naturally gmail has decided to be helpful, and provided a relevant link: > http://www.acodisc.com > > Good luck! (your friend will need it; that and it'd probably still be cheaper to > go and re-travel to get new discs rather than go through a data recovery house) Or get someone to mail one. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:52:25 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:52:25 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: References: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920201455.79592.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> <20040920202630.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040920205225.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:31:01PM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > I would personally avoid any HP desktop machine on the basis that they're > fugly proprietary plastic toys. I don't know about their PC servers. > I have seen > some of the old HPPA workstations...THOSE were cool (or hot, depending; that > dual 180MHz box with a 1200W power supply probably has a non-trivial BTU > rating). Yeah, but the OS sucked and the price tag was insane. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:53:52 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:53:52 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <414F4360.4090702@rogers.com> The Edge of the Ice wrote: > Naturally gmail has decided to be helpful, and provided a relevant link: > http://www.acodisc.com > > Good luck! (your friend will need it; that and it'd probably still be cheaper to > go and re-travel to get new discs rather than go through a data recovery house) > I suspect that sort of service would fall into the "If you have to ask, you can't afford it." catagory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:57:02 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:57:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <20040920202739.GU8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040920202739.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I wonder if someone could scan the cd surface at very high resolution > (maybe with a laser beam) and then take the scans of each piece and lign > up the tracks that way and create a virtual cd image and recover the > data from that. Hmmm. Does sound expensive. Feasible in principle, I expect, but you'd need to work at exceedingly high resolution, and it would get pricey... (There are people already experimenting with scanning traditional needle-and-groove LPs and recovering the sound, and apparently that can be done, although at present the audio quality is too poor for it to be a useful technique. But CDs are a whole different order of magnitude.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 20:59:35 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:59:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <414F4360.4090702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4360.4090702@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > > Naturally gmail has decided to be helpful, and provided a relevant link: > > http://www.acodisc.com > > I suspect that sort of service would fall into the "If you have to ask, > you can't afford it." catagory. Yep, most likely. And I note that when they talk about physically damaged disks, they mention scratches, not outright breaks. Still, it's worth knowing that the outfit exists, just in case a real need ever appears... Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 21:05:57 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:05:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <414F3C14.40809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > I've never heard of such as service, and you can be sure it would be > very expensive, if even possible. Anyone attempting such a recovery > would have to rejoin the pieces, to extremely close tolerances. Even > then they'd still have problems recovering the data. However, given that the break won't be perfectly straight and will tend to align itself, I wouldn't be surprised if a join to close tolerances wasn't that hard, with the right equipment. You'd want to spin a patched-together disk slowly, mind you. Given how much error correction is built into the format, I suspect there wouldn't be that much trouble doing an acceptable recovery, if the alignment was close enough that the head servo could maintain track following across the break. (Still, I agree with the general conclusion that unless he's really nuts about this particular music, recovery is probably too expensive...) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 21:07:46 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:07:46 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414F46A2.9050302@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > >>>Naturally gmail has decided to be helpful, and provided a relevant link: >>>http://www.acodisc.com >> >>I suspect that sort of service would fall into the "If you have to ask, >>you can't afford it." catagory. > > > Yep, most likely. And I note that when they talk about physically damaged > disks, they mention scratches, not outright breaks. > > Still, it's worth knowing that the outfit exists, just in case a real need > ever appears... Well, I do have an Enya CD, that's got a scratch in it. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 21:12:35 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:12:35 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: <20040920202739.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040920211235.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:57:02PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > I wonder if someone could scan the cd surface at very high resolution > > (maybe with a laser beam) and then take the scans of each piece and lign > > up the tracks that way and create a virtual cd image and recover the > > data from that. Hmmm. Does sound expensive. > > Feasible in principle, I expect, but you'd need to work at exceedingly > high resolution, and it would get pricey... > > (There are people already experimenting with scanning traditional > needle-and-groove LPs and recovering the sound, and apparently that can > be done, although at present the audio quality is too poor for it to be > a useful technique. But CDs are a whole different order of magnitude.) But CDs are also pits of known depths not analog variable depths the way LPs are. It should be a simpler ting to determine what the correct value is, although higher resolution. Not like laser discs which would be a serious pain. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 21:19:36 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:19:36 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <414F4968.5050401@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Teddy Mills wrote: | I have selected no hardware or software yet. | | Below are my ideas, please read them and reply to the TLUG list or myself | with your | ideas and advice. I thank you all, I'll be sure to be at the next meeting! | I missed the last one just 2 days ago! Ack! | | /teddy | | PS: | I know O'Reilly has a book out called Managing RAID on Linux. Im getting | that book asap. | | | ********* | FUNCTION: | ********* | To build a LINUX MYSQL4 production server to handle from 100-5000 small(<1k) | database transactions daily. MySQL is an unsuitable choice for serious database work. You should care about your data's integrity if you're going to bother collecting it in the first place. For a list of examples of things that MySQL does which will cause you difficulties, take a look at http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html Postgres is not much more difficult to administer, offers superior performance for non-trivial queries, and the ability to do some fairly complex reporting work. For small datasets like what you're planning to work with, performance will be a relative non-issue, but the support for server side functions (including aggregates) is a huge win. | Mission critical. Downtime to be minimized as much as possible during the | day. Nothing else, thats it. So 9 to 5 uptime required? That shouldn't be at all hard to achieve. | A system that is as bulletproof as possible, against downtime, but doesnt | cost the moon. Quantify your budget. If downtime really isn't acceptable then you need to look into enterprise level hardware. If you've got evenings and weekends for maintenance, then you can do this on commodity hardware. | ***************** | OS and software: | ***************** | Redhat Enterprise AS or Fedora Core 2 ? | I am open to any OS, but I am leaning towards using Fedora Core 2. | I dont see anything in Enterprise Server AS that will help me. The support contract and commitment to platform stability (ie RH will backport important bug-fixes into existing library versions instead of upgrading the library) are valuable if you're going for serious stability. | All software will be the latest open source versions of | MySQL4, maybe Samba compiled from tar sources. If your application is commercial then MySQL4 is _not_ free. | *********** | RAID | *********** | I am going to use a SCSI RAID and SCSI drives, so I am not going to use any | software RAIDs or IDE drives. I dont want to have to boot into Linux just | to get access | to the RAID drives, if possible. | | I would like the Linux OS to be inside the RAID, but if that is not | possible, | then just the RAID to hold the MySQL data in say in /dev/sdb1. | That means I assume my booting Linux OS would reside on say a 4GB IDE. hmmm. | | I thought about RAID 5, but I think I am going with a RAID1. RAID1 is secure | reliable and fast. Just kinda slow on the writes. Im okay with that. A RAID | 5 | means dropping 1 or 2 G's on the extra large capacity SCSI drives. RAID1+0 is the better solution. The 10kRPM WD Raptor SATA drives are excellent value. Lennart mentioned the 3ware controllers, and I have to second that. They're excellent hardware. However you can get better price/performance from the highpoint raid controllers. And they're also well supported in the kernel. Personally, I stay away from RAID5 whenever possible. | Im going with a SCSI RAID1, unless convinced otherwise. | I am leaning towards the MEGARAID 1600 SCSI RAID CONTROLLER and 3 80GB SCSI | drives. | | I am kind of stuck, maybe I should use a IDE SATA-RAID1 solution from | PROMISE. | If a IDE-based system can saturate our internet connection why bother with | SCSI? Reliability. Check out the MTTF on the drives you're looking at. | ************ | RAID FORMAT | ************ | Since I only have 2 drives to worry about both will fit inside the PC, so no | external | closure is needed. | | However a RAID enclosure, with hotswappable and standbys would be better. | Even better | would be a cheap, but decent hot-swappable system that does RAID1, but I | cant seem to find any. 3ware sells an enclosure that fits in 2 or maybe it was 3 standard external 5.25" drive bays. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBT0lmgfzn5SevSpoRAtOkAJ9eQ18yrrKd2THFbluH6fGXwUn1mQCfUy2G XQ90bdDbZaoIcRTgBcyCoPM= =o8Yr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 04:35:08 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 00:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <414F4360.4090702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> <414F4360.4090702@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > The Edge of the Ice wrote: >> Naturally gmail has decided to be helpful, and provided a relevant link: >> http://www.acodisc.com >> >> Good luck! (your friend will need it; that and it'd probably still be >> cheaper to >> go and re-travel to get new discs rather than go through a data recovery >> house) >> > > I suspect that sort of service would fall into the "If you have to ask, you > can't afford it." catagory. Actually the faq of acodisc says they do most cds for under $70 but it does not mention anything about using superglue and tape to put the pieces back together. What exactly did they do with that checked baggage ? Did they deliver it by air mail (dropped out of baggage hold before landing) ? I'm interested just in case. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 21:31:39 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 17:31:39 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? Message-ID: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> Hi all, After nearly six months the backup program I have been writing for my company is coming alive (it's backing up data, backing up multiple sources and spanning destinations simultaneously, etc...). The next step I guess is to start asking brave souls to beta test it and so here I am yet agin hoping for advice. The biggest caveat is that it isn't a GPL program though it will be free to use by home users and the source code will be made availbale to all to see (though not to use in other programs). We're banking on the honesty of companies and their desire to see us succeed (and to a lesser extend they're desire to operate legally, though we aren't that naive :p ) to win sales. I do expect my company will release it fully under the GPL once they see that they can recover their develepment costs and survive but that isn't for sure and I don't want to have anyone offer to help with false promises. Given that caveat how would people here suggest I go about beta-testing? The program is quite alpha-stage and it should definately -not- be run on a machine with valuable data yet not one that can not afford to be down. Beyond standard error reporting I am also hoping for feedback on how to make code more secure and efficient. Particularly the database access portion of it which is a massive bottle neck. Should I setup Bugzilla (or something similar) or would that be overkill/a distraction for a program this early into it's development? What can I expect to come in so far as feedback is concerned? Just what should I expect? Beyond this general question would this be something people here on TLUG would be interested in beta-testing (given it's non-GPL license)? If so, should I give more information in another post or should I have people email me? Would people like a more detailed example of what the program is? Any advice is greatly appreciated. This is one of the largest projects I have ever been involved in and I am nervous that I will mess it up or upset the community with a mis-step. :p Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 22:24:04 2004 From: jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jamiil) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:24:04 -0700 Subject: I have a P3 References: <20040920193611.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > Are we supposed to physicly know what hardware you have? :) I don't understand what you mean by "physicly know". Knowledge is, although not tangible, a phycal or bioqimical asset; of course I want you to physically know what type of OS and HW I have, so that you can make a better assestment of the problem. > Some winmodems can even work under linux (ltmodem at least) but they are > more work and always take more cpu to run of course, and they are kind > of a pain. Am I to understand that you are not recomending to use winmodems? If that is the case, I agree with you. I have read so many articles regarding the winmodem/linux combo that I can quickly make that decition. Thanks for your interest, I am looking forward to your imput. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 22:29:40 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 18:29:40 -0400 Subject: I have a P3 In-Reply-To: References: <20040920193611.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200409201829.40800.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On September 20, 2004 06:24 pm, Jamiil wrote: > > Are we supposed to physicly know what hardware you have? :) > > I don't understand what you mean by "physicly know". Knowledge is, although > not tangible, a phycal or bioqimical asset; of course I want you to > physically know what type of OS and HW I have, so that you can make a > better assestment of the problem. no dude. it was a typo. i think he meant "psychically". he was pointing out that you didn't tell us what you have. how are we supposed to recommend changes to a system we know nothing about. -- "the nationalist not only does not dissaprove of attrocities committed by his own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." - george orwell -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 22:35:38 2004 From: jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jamiil) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:35:38 -0700 Subject: Linux Stores? References: <20040920194219.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Hey!! thanks for the info. However, after the last US santion on Canada I decided not to buy from the US if I have the choice. I was hoping to get the name of a store here in the GTA. That's OK, but if you know of a store in the above area please, please let me know. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lennart Sorensen" To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:42 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux Stores? > On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 12:01:10PM -0700, Jamiil wrote: > > Does anyone know any store where I can get Linux Debian's CD? > > Which version? > > www.cheapbytes.com has 3.0 (stable) [released about 2 years ago], while > I doubt any store has the weekly builds of testing (due to release any > time now). > > Or you get someone with bandwidth to make you a cd (or dvd) set. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 22:43:56 2004 From: jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jamiil) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 15:43:56 -0700 Subject: I have a P3 References: <20040920193611.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200409201829.40800.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: Oh! Oops! Well, it does not really matter what are all the components my computer has, I know that the only ones that are not LINUX compatible are the modem and the sacanner. I got to get a new modem and SCSI card for the HP ScanJet 5100C. I know, I know, it's an old scanner; but it works though, and it works just fine. Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "daniel" To: Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 3:29 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: I have a P3 > On September 20, 2004 06:24 pm, Jamiil wrote: > > > Are we supposed to physicly know what hardware you have? :) > > > > I don't understand what you mean by "physicly know". Knowledge is, although > > not tangible, a phycal or bioqimical asset; of course I want you to > > physically know what type of OS and HW I have, so that you can make a > > better assestment of the problem. > > no dude. it was a typo. i think he meant "psychically". he was pointing out > that you didn't tell us what you have. how are we supposed to recommend > changes to a system we know nothing about. > > -- > "the nationalist not only does not dissaprove of attrocities committed by his > own side, he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them." > - george orwell > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 20 23:48:33 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 19:48:33 -0400 Subject: I have a P3 In-Reply-To: References: <200409201829.40800.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <200409201948.33103.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On September 20, 2004 06:43 pm, Jamiil wrote: > Well, it does not really matter what are all the components my computer > has, I know that the only ones that are not LINUX compatible are the modem > and the sacanner. I got to get a new modem and SCSI ?card for the HP > ScanJet 5100C. Since you know all about your hardware then it must have been software updates that you requested help on? In Debian it is "apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade" -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 01:11:31 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:11:31 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <414F3C14.40809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <414F3C14.40809@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040921011131.GC2463@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:22:44PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Henry Spencer wrote: > >A low-tech :-) friend of mine asked me to inquire about this... > > > >He's got a couple of CDs that are physically broken. (Shouldn't have put > >them in checked baggage...) They're not mass-market items, and it would > >be difficult to replace them without repeating some fairly expensive > >travels. Anybody know of an outfit hereabouts that could recover their > >contents, either as data files or as duplicate disks? > > > >(These are music CDs, as it happens, but I've come close to needing this > >once or twice for damaged CDROMs, and now he's got me curious too.) > > I've never heard of such as service, and you can be sure it would be > very expensive, if even possible. Anyone attempting such a recovery > would have to rejoin the pieces, to extremely close tolerances. Even > then they'd still have problems recovering the data. and the drive they used would have to be 1x or slower - there's no way that a rejoined disk could handle the stress of the current rotational speeds. (I recall hearing that they were approaching the limit of the structural strength of the glass disks, and would not be increasing much beyond the current speeds.) I suspect that to do the job properly would require a high resolution scanner and special software to massage the image to reconnect and clean up the area around the break/join. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 01:24:01 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:24:01 -0400 Subject: Linux Stores? In-Reply-To: References: <20040920194219.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <414F82B1.4010609@rogers.com> If you go to the Debian site, you can find a list of vendors in Canada. Jamiil wrote: > Hey!! thanks for the info. > However, after the last US santion on Canada I decided not to buy from the > US if I have the choice. > I was hoping to get the name of a store here in the GTA. > That's OK, but if you know of a store in the above area please, please let > me know. > > Thanks > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lennart Sorensen" > To: > Sent: Monday, September 20, 2004 12:42 PM > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux Stores? > > > >>On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 12:01:10PM -0700, Jamiil wrote: >> >>>Does anyone know any store where I can get Linux Debian's CD? >> >>Which version? >> >>www.cheapbytes.com has 3.0 (stable) [released about 2 years ago], while >>I doubt any store has the weekly builds of testing (due to release any >>time now). >> >>Or you get someone with bandwidth to make you a cd (or dvd) set. >> >>Lennart Sorensen >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 02:56:12 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 22:56:12 -0400 Subject: I have a P3 In-Reply-To: References: <20040920193611.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200409201829.40800.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20040921025612.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 03:43:56PM -0700, Jamiil wrote: > Oh! Oops! > Well, it does not really matter what are all the components my computer has, > I know that the only ones that are not LINUX compatible are the modem and > the sacanner. I got to get a new modem and SCSI card for the HP ScanJet > 5100C. > I know, I know, it's an old scanner; but it works though, and it works just > fine. Well an Epson 1670photo scanner can be picked up from staples on clearance for $99, which is usb2.0 1600x3200dpi. It uses the snapscan backend in sane and is currently ranked as 'good' in support, while the 1660 and 1650 that preceeded are listed as 'complete' but use the epson backend. Unfortunately epson has recently started using other manufacturers chipsets in their scanners rahter than their own which has made linux support somewhat tricker (all the epson backend scanners used essentially the same commandset.) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 03:12:08 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 20 Sep 2004 23:12:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <20040921011131.GC2463-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921011131.GC2463@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, John Macdonald wrote: > there's no way that a rejoined disk could handle the stress > of the current rotational speeds. (I recall hearing that > they were approaching the limit of the structural strength of > the glass disks, and would not be increasing much beyond the > current speeds.) The current disks (which are plastic, not glass) in fact cannot take being spun at (say) 50x normal rotation rate, even though the label on the drive does say "50X". There's some specsmanship there, based on the fact that you can get the data rate up to 50x nominal at much lower rotational rate if you're working near the outer edge of the disk. A 50X drive delivers 50x the data rate only in the most favorable part of the disk. People have experimentally tried spinning CDs at the rate that would be needed to deliver drive-specified rates near the inner edge. It's best to have a blast shield around the disk when you do, because it will disintegrate. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 10:45:37 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 06:45:37 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41500651.5060609@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004, John Macdonald wrote: > >>there's no way that a rejoined disk could handle the stress >>of the current rotational speeds. (I recall hearing that >>they were approaching the limit of the structural strength of >>the glass disks, and would not be increasing much beyond the >>current speeds.) > > > The current disks (which are plastic, not glass) in fact cannot take being > spun at (say) 50x normal rotation rate, even though the label on the drive > does say "50X". There's some specsmanship there, based on the fact that > you can get the data rate up to 50x nominal at much lower rotational rate > if you're working near the outer edge of the disk. A 50X drive delivers > 50x the data rate only in the most favorable part of the disk. And, due to CD layout, only full disks will ever use that 50X space, though you could always pad the disk, so that the data is at the outside. Incidentally, I believe you mean linear rate, not rotational. If rotational, the outer tracks would be spinning faster or slower (RPMs) than the inner tracks. That would definitely cause the disks to fracture, no matter how fast they were spinning. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 12:17:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:17:36 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <41500651.5060609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41500651.5060609@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040921121736.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 06:45:37AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > And, due to CD layout, only full disks will ever use that 50X space, > though you could always pad the disk, so that the data is at the outside. I believe dreamcast games took advantage of that and padded out their games so the data was as far out on the disk as possible (they were also modified CD format holding about 1GB, but same layout otherwise). > Incidentally, I believe you mean linear rate, not rotational. If > rotational, the outer tracks would be spinning faster or slower (RPMs) > than the inner tracks. That would definitely cause the disks to > fracture, no matter how fast they were spinning. ;-) Well the read speed is a function of where on the disk the head is pointing and how fast the disc is rotating. Since the data is stored at a constant bits per distance of track, there is more data on one revolution on the outside than the inside, hence at a constant rpm you get higher read speeds at the outside than the inside. original CD drives up to around 8x were constant linear speed, so they changed rotation speed as they went along to keep a constant read speed, while new drives use constant rotation speeds instead and have varying read speeds as a result. As far as I remember my 52x CD writer will only read pressed CDs at up to 40 or 48x (probably 40x) to avoid damaging them, while cd-r it will run at 52x. Supposedly they are more durable than pressed discs. The drive is also supposed to have a reinforced front bezel, just in case :) I don't want to know what the inside of the drive would look like if it ever had a need to using that reinforcement. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 12:26:08 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:26:08 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <20040921121736.GA8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41500651.5060609@rogers.com> <20040921121736.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <41501DE0.7050606@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 06:45:37AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>And, due to CD layout, only full disks will ever use that 50X space, >>though you could always pad the disk, so that the data is at the outside. > > > I believe dreamcast games took advantage of that and padded out their > games so the data was as far out on the disk as possible (they were also > modified CD format holding about 1GB, but same layout otherwise). > > >>Incidentally, I believe you mean linear rate, not rotational. If >>rotational, the outer tracks would be spinning faster or slower (RPMs) >>than the inner tracks. That would definitely cause the disks to >>fracture, no matter how fast they were spinning. ;-) > > > Well the read speed is a function of where on the disk the head is > pointing and how fast the disc is rotating. Since the data is stored at > a constant bits per distance of track, there is more data on one > revolution on the outside than the inside, hence at a constant rpm you > get higher read speeds at the outside than the inside. original CD > drives up to around 8x were constant linear speed, so they changed > rotation speed as they went along to keep a constant read speed, while > new drives use constant rotation speeds instead and have varying read > speeds as a result. > > As far as I remember my 52x CD writer will only read pressed CDs at up > to 40 or 48x (probably 40x) to avoid damaging them, while cd-r it will > run at 52x. Supposedly they are more durable than pressed discs. The > drive is also supposed to have a reinforced front bezel, just in case :) > I don't want to know what the inside of the drive would look like if it > ever had a need to using that reinforcement. I'm aware of anglular velocity vs linear velocity. My comments were simply a poor attempt at humour, regarding inner and outer tracks having different angular or rotational velocity at the same time. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 12:48:38 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:48:38 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <414F4968.5050401-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4968.5050401@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <41502326.1080901@sympatico.ca> Andrew Hammond wrote: > Teddy Mills wrote: > | I have selected no hardware or software yet. > | > | Below are my ideas, please read them and reply to the TLUG list or myself > | with your > | ideas and advice. I thank you all, I'll be sure to be at the next > meeting! > | I missed the last one just 2 days ago! Ack! > | > | /teddy > | > | PS: > | I know O'Reilly has a book out called Managing RAID on Linux. Im getting > | that book asap. > | > | > | ********* > | FUNCTION: > | ********* > | To build a LINUX MYSQL4 production server to handle from 100-5000 > small(<1k) > | database transactions daily. > > MySQL is an unsuitable choice for serious database work. Hmm, why do I only ever hear pg users say this? I use both pgsql and mysql; they both do the job. Our mileage is clearly varying. For the level of transactions mentioned by the OP, even SQLite will be more than adequate. > http://sql-info.de/mysql/gotchas.html I've never met a standard that's more observed in its breaking than otherwise. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 13:27:52 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:27:52 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <41502326.1080901-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4968.5050401@ca.afilias.info> <41502326.1080901@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040921132752.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 08:48:38AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Hmm, why do I only ever hear pg users say this? I use both pgsql and > mysql; they both do the job. Our mileage is clearly varying. Is there any other choice than mysql and postgresql? Of course the postgresql users are the ones complainining about mysql, often because theyt already tried mysql and found it lacking in many features they required for their work. Other peopel find mysql just fine for their work, and don't complain and wonder why the postgresql fans are complaining about mysql. Until you see something missing that you need, you think your tools are perfect. Maybe you won't ever find anything missing. Sometimes you just don't realize your life could be made easier by some more advanced features because you are used to how it works now. > For the level of transactions mentioned by the OP, even SQLite will be > more than adequate. > > I've never met a standard that's more observed in its breaking than > otherwise. Well personally from an admin standpoint I always found postgresql much nicer to deal with than mysql. And from doing development, psql you can do real work in, while the mysql command line util is just painful (it won't give you table lists, or anything else useful for doing things). Unless you go use mysqlcc or something like that, it's nearly impossible to do anything easily. This isn't a fault in mysql as a db, just in the tools they provide the developer/admin to work with. Now when it comes to complex queries and subselects and such, postgresql tends to have mysql outdone by a lot, but they do have different design goals in mind, and hey choice is good right? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 13:53:12 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:53:12 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <20040920205225.GX8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920201455.79592.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> <20040920202630.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920205225.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:52:25 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:31:01PM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > > I would personally avoid any HP desktop machine on the basis that they're > > fugly proprietary plastic toys. I don't know about their PC servers. > > I have seen > > some of the old HPPA workstations...THOSE were cool (or hot, depending; that > > dual 180MHz box with a 1200W power supply probably has a non-trivial BTU > > rating). > > Yeah, but the OS sucked and the price tag was insane. Correction: the price tag _was_ insane. These puppies can be had for just a couple of hundred dollars, are probably still more reliable than consumer PC parts, and will strike envy into any visiting geek. And you can run Linux on them now, too, so the OS no longer has to suck. ;) BTW, take me with a grain of salt; I've never actually had to deal with one of these boxen personally, I've just got friends who do. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 13:55:02 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:55:02 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <20040921121736.GA8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41500651.5060609@rogers.com> <20040921121736.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 08:17:36 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > As far as I remember my 52x CD writer will only read pressed CDs at up > to 40 or 48x (probably 40x) to avoid damaging them, while cd-r it will > run at 52x. Supposedly they are more durable than pressed discs. The > drive is also supposed to have a reinforced front bezel, just in case :) > I don't want to know what the inside of the drive would look like if it > ever had a need to using that reinforcement. Unfortunately the original site appears to be down: http://www.qedata.se/e_js_n-cdrom.htm But there are others: http://www.hifi-writer.com/he/misc/killercds.htm http://www.powerlabs.org/cdexplode.htm Now we're all waiting for those 500GB solid-state memories... ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 14:35:27 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 10:35:27 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <414F4C3B.9010501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <41503C2F.4060907@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Madison Kelly wrote: | Hi all, | | After nearly six months the backup program I have been writing for my | company is coming alive (it's backing up data, backing up multiple | sources and spanning destinations simultaneously, etc...). The next step | I guess is to start asking brave souls to beta test it and so here I am | yet agin hoping for advice. My advice would be to answer the question: what niche of the market are you aiming for? I'm not seeing any features that aren't already provided by other backup packages. To break into the enterprise market, your application would need some incredibly compelling feature that can't be replicated in 6 months by your competitors. And if you're aiming for Linux as a platform then you've pretty much ruled out the low end market. They're too cheap to hire the skills necessary to run linux. | The biggest caveat is that it isn't a GPL program though it will be | free to use by home users and the source code will be made availbale to | all to see (though not to use in other programs). We're banking on the | honesty of companies and their desire to see us succeed (and to a lesser | extend they're desire to operate legally, though we aren't that naive :p | ) to win sales. So you want an admin / MIS / CIO to gamble their reputation by recommending an unknown, unproven back-up system with unclear licensing? There's already a good selection of solutions which are well known and proved. A few thousand dollars a year for software licenses is nothing if it buys a solution. Saving a few thousand dollars in software licenses at the cost of risking business critical data (and your job) is insane. | I do expect my company will release it fully under the | GPL once they see that they can recover their develepment costs and | survive but that isn't for sure and I don't want to have anyone offer to | help with false promises. | | Given that caveat how would people here suggest I go about | beta-testing? The program is quite alpha-stage and it should definately | -not- be run on a machine with valuable data yet not one that can not | afford to be down. Beyond standard error reporting I am also hoping for | feedback on how to make code more secure and efficient. Particularly the | database access portion of it which is a massive bottle neck. | | Should I setup Bugzilla (or something similar) or would that be | overkill/a distraction for a program this early into it's development? | What can I expect to come in so far as feedback is concerned? Just what | should I expect? Bugzilla or you could use RT (which I prefer). | Beyond this general question would this be something people here on | TLUG would be interested in beta-testing (given it's non-GPL license)? | If so, should I give more information in another post or should I have | people email me? Would people like a more detailed example of what the | program is? | | Any advice is greatly appreciated. This is one of the largest projects | I have ever been involved in and I am nervous that I will mess it up or | upset the community with a mis-step. :p I contribute to GPL projects because by enriching the commons, I enrich myself. What do I get out of contributing to your project? - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBUDwtgfzn5SevSpoRAsUMAJ94Mk1lQk8SCpZi3e7CkIjfZ7+grgCfcfAB 8tnZ+ZW3WuySwPE56Jl0arQ= =2kCi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 15:00:50 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:00:50 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <41503C2F.4060907-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> <41503C2F.4060907@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <41504222.5080304@alteeve.com> Thnk you for replying! Andrew Hammond wrote: > My advice would be to answer the question: what niche of the market are > you aiming for? I'm not seeing any features that aren't already provided > by other backup packages. To break into the enterprise market, your > application would need some incredibly compelling feature that can't be > replicated in 6 months by your competitors. And if you're aiming for > Linux as a platform then you've pretty much ruled out the low end > market. They're too cheap to hire the skills necessary to run linux. The reason the program was written was because I had spent some time trying to get other backup programs like Amanda and Bacula working. When they did work recovery of data required special knowledge of Linux. Third there wasn't a backup program I could find that used (single/multiple) USB/Firewire connected drives as it's storage medium. Finally I wanted to have a couple of features that I haven't seen before on any backup program, mainly the ability to search for files that are on media that is offline and identify which drive I need to bring online in order to recover the data once I found it. To this end the program we have written is used through a webpage front-end (a la CUPS/Webmin) so a user who doesn't know (or is intimidated by) Linux will be able to use it once it's setup from their desktop. This includes selecting what to backup, when the jobs are to run, search for backed up data and recover it from the media back to the system all from the web front-end. The only special knowledge needed is the initial install. The program also can backup multiple sources simultaneously to multiple destinations. The program handles all of the spanning when needed and subsequent jobs will look for the data and update it when found regardless of how or where the media is connected rather than blindly writing the data out to the first destination with enough space. So the two main features that I think set it apart is that it is easy to use, very flexible and it uses inexpensive drives (when compared to tapes like Ultrium). Obviously it is not for everyone but I expect some will find it useful. > So you want an admin / MIS / CIO to gamble their reputation by > recommending an unknown, unproven back-up system with unclear licensing? > There's already a good selection of solutions which are well known and > proved. A few thousand dollars a year for software licenses is nothing > if it buys a solution. Saving a few thousand dollars in software > licenses at the cost of risking business critical data (and your job) is > insane. At this stage, no, definitely not. The post was to ask for advice on interesting beta-testers and how to manage they're feedback. That is also why I mentioned that the program is, at this point, at an alpha stage. The licensing thing is a pain in the ass and I have argued the best I could to get it as close to GPL as I can. That is how I got it to be free for home users and to make the code available to view. The problem at this point is that my boss sees what he has spent to develop this program and he worries about getting a return on his investment. Once he sees that he can infact see a return simply on support and development contracts I fully expect that he will GPL the program. He just needs to see it happen first. > Bugzilla or you could use RT (which I prefer). Ah, RT! I forgot about that, I had looked into it before. Thanks for the reminder! > I contribute to GPL projects because by enriching the commons, I enrich > myself. What do I get out of contributing to your project? Well, though it isn't GPL there are numerous other split-level licensed programs that are popular in the Linux community (MySQL comes to mind). The community (and in turn you) will benefit by having a freely available, easy to use backup program for home users. Companies will be required to pay for the most recent version but they will now have one more backup option to chose from which may well help a Linux advocate to convince their company to migrate (as Suse OpenExchange currently does). Thank you again for your feedback! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 15:54:58 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:54:58 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: <41500651.5060609@rogers.com> <20040921121736.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040921155458.GB9183@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 09:55:02AM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > Now we're all waiting for those 500GB solid-state memories... ;) > > -- > taa > /*eof*/ If you are will to wait a "little" while for the technical details to get resolved, there will be much higher densities than a mere 500GB. IBM research has just demonstrated the ability to detect and flip the spin on a single electron: http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/21/135247&tid=126&tid=14 (But then you'll still have to wait a "little" longer for the commercial details to get resolved to a consumer price level you're willing to afford, of course.) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 15:27:51 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:27:51 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: References: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920201455.79592.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> <20040920202630.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920205225.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040921152751.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 09:53:12AM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > Correction: the price tag _was_ insane. These puppies can be had for just a > couple of hundred dollars, are probably still more reliable than consumer PC > parts, and will strike envy into any visiting geek. And you can run Linux on > them now, too, so the OS no longer has to suck. ;) > > BTW, take me with a grain of salt; I've never actually had to deal with one of > these boxen personally, I've just got friends who do. I spent 4 months doing development work on them, and 4 months doing tech support before that. It took a week of downloading and compiling to get gcc, full x headers, decent shell (anything but csh), and everything else to the point where doing real work was possible due to the horrible OS and awful compiler HP provided, and lack of proper header files for parts of the OS (those did come in HP-UX 10, but they were missing in 7, 8 and 9 even with loud complaints from the customers about it, HP said 'buy our compiler, it includes header files'). I have no idea how the speed compares anymore, but given what speed machine I can buy new for $400, the HPPA boxes better be around $50. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 15:30:30 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:30:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Actually the faq of acodisc says they do most cds for under $70 but it > does not mention anything about using superglue and tape to put the pieces > back together. What exactly did they do with that checked baggage ? Did > they deliver it by air mail (dropped out of baggage hold before landing) ? > I'm interested just in case. He didn't supply details (indeed, may not have known details). It may be that the bags got no more than the usual bashing and bouncing, but the CDs shifted around enough to put them in a vulnerable position. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 18:53:13 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang (James) Li) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 11:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: bash shell env change - copy/paste etc Message-ID: <20040921185313.99384.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, all I am wondering where do i enable the highligh copy/paste thing in bash environment? also, the ls command result shows the file/directory in some uncomfortable colores, how do i make the permanent changes? thanks! Qiang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail is new and improved - Check it out! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 19:01:17 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:01:17 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance Message-ID: Hi all! I've decided to install a raid 5 on a file server at home. CPU is pentium 120MHz with 64M ram. I know it's rather scarce but my question is, is there a way to measure where the biggest performance hit will be? I want to know of a way I can monitor which compenent is the bottleneck. Will increasing memory improve performance? Will faster CPU make a difference? I'm looking for a real technique (ie numbers) from which I can get a better understanding. I've looked at google groups and all I can really find are opinions and vague references to "if you have this or that it might give you better..." Thanks Martin Duclos _________________________________________________________________ MSN?? Calendar keeps you organized and takes the effort out of scheduling get-togethers. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 19:21:20 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:21:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash shell env change - copy/paste etc In-Reply-To: <20040921185313.99384.qmail-YVEKlzFy1tWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921185313.99384.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > Hi, all > > I am wondering where do i enable the highligh copy/paste thing in bash environment? Highlighting and copy and paste have nothing to do with bash. If you are using an xterm window, it is enabled by default. If you are using a virtual console, you need to run gpm (I don't remember the necessary options; read the man page). > also, the ls command result shows the file/directory in some > uncomfortable colores, how do i make the permanent changes? Use dircolors. Create a file with: dircolors > $HOME/.dircolours Then edit the file (it will be commented to make it quite easy), and implement the edited file with: eval `dircolors $HOME/.dircolours` Put the eval line in your $HOME/.bashrc file. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 19:24:01 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:24:01 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:01:17 -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > I've decided to install a raid 5 on a file server at home. CPU is pentium > 120MHz with 64M ram. I know it's rather scarce but my question is, is there > a way to measure where the biggest performance hit will be? I want to know > of a way I can monitor which compenent is the bottleneck. Will increasing > memory improve performance? Will faster CPU make a difference? I'm looking > for a real technique (ie numbers) from which I can get a better > understanding. I've looked at google groups and all I can really find are > opinions and vague references to "if you have this or that it might give you > better..." How about replacing the whole motherboard/cpu/ram set? You'll probably have much better luck doing that than finding reliable upgrade components, and the whole system will run a LOT faster for it. For $230 (including tax) you could get yourself a Celeron 1.7GHz with 256MB of RAM, and some generic VIA chipset (with onboard video) that will severely outperform that old board. If you don't cheap out on the mobo quite so much (I don't think I'd buy a $60 mobo, personally), you can get something that will probably be more reliable, too. I really wouldn't consider RAID5 on something like that. RAID5 only becomes interesting with 3 or more drives, too. Look for a 3ware or highpoint card, as mentioned in one of the other threads. That will solve a LOT of headaches, and help to keep your data safer. Before even going to RAID5, go and purchase a UPS. They can be had for $120, and will probably provide much better protection for your dollar than RAID5. If you really do want your data to be secure, you might consider just getting a pair of drives and mirroring between the two. Just be careful how big you go, though, since the old ATA interface can't handle anything over 132GB IIRC (not to mention the issues you might have booting a kernel beyond 8GB). That being said, increase the RAM. Fileserving would do best to have as much caching as possible, since it's IO intensive rather than CPU intensive. Just don't expect scp transfers to go fast (crypto will be your bottleneck); use nfs or samba. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 19:42:41 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: df listings Message-ID: Last year, with Mandrake 9.2, the output of df changed from: Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Available Capacity Mounted on /dev/hda1 1921156 1596468 227096 88% / /dev/hda4 15417532 7686384 6947980 53% /data /dev/hda6 1383520 259964 1053276 20% /home To: Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 1921156 1596468 227096 88% / /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 15417532 7686384 6947980 53% /data /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part6 1383520 259964 1053276 20% /home I don't know whether this is a result of a change in df, or something Mandrake did, or a result using devfs. How widespread is this new form? Does your distro use it? I am trying to decide whether to include my "fix" in a book I am writing; the book is not specifically Linux oriented, so unless it is widespread, I won't bother with it. For those who are interested, I have this in my ~/.bashrc: xchar="\`\'\-\> " fix_dev="` echo "fixdev() { case \\\$1 in" stat -c "%N" /dev/hd* | tr -s "$xchar" " " | while read a b do printf "\t/dev/%s) fs=%s ;;\n" "$b" "$a" done echo " esac }" `" eval "$fix_dev" unset fix_dev df () { command df -P "$@" | { read FS BL U A C M; printf "%-20s %12s %9s %10s %9s %s\n" "${FS}" "$BL" "$U" "$A" "$C" "$M"; while read fs bl u a c m; do fixdev $fs printf "%-20s %12s %9s %10s %9s %s\n" "${fs}" "$bl" "$u" "$a" "$c" "$m"; done } } -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 19:45:14 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:45:14 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040921194514.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 03:01:17PM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > I've decided to install a raid 5 on a file server at home. CPU is pentium > 120MHz with 64M ram. I know it's rather scarce but my question is, is there > a way to measure where the biggest performance hit will be? I want to know > of a way I can monitor which compenent is the bottleneck. Will increasing > memory improve performance? Will faster CPU make a difference? I'm looking > for a real technique (ie numbers) from which I can get a better > understanding. I've looked at google groups and all I can really find are > opinions and vague references to "if you have this or that it might give > you better..." Hardware or software raid? raid5 is one of the processing heavy (mainly xor) raid implementations, so you will have some performance impact if you run software raid. The software raid code in the kernel does have mmx and sse code paths to speed up the calculations onf machines which have those instruction sets, which a P120 of course does not. Adding ram shouldn't make any difference to the raid, while a faster CPU would make a difference if using software raid. With hardware raid the card does the xor calculations and hence the cpu speed isn't really relevant. It is possible in some cases on high end machines that using software raid will run faster than hardware raid since the main cpu is many times faster than the dedicated cpu on some hardware of the cheaper raid cards. How many ide ports do you have or are you planning to use scsi? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 19:48:16 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:48:16 -0400 Subject: df listings In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040921194816.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 03:42:41PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > Last year, with Mandrake 9.2, the output of df changed from: > > Filesystem 1024-blocks Used Available Capacity Mounted on > /dev/hda1 1921156 1596468 227096 88% / > /dev/hda4 15417532 7686384 6947980 53% /data > /dev/hda6 1383520 259964 1053276 20% /home > > To: > > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on > /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 > 1921156 1596468 227096 88% / > /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 > 15417532 7686384 6947980 53% /data > /dev/ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part6 > 1383520 259964 1053276 20% /home > > > I don't know whether this is a result of a change in df, or > something Mandrake did, or a result using devfs. The device name change is caused by devfs (which is deprecated in 2.6 kernels from what I read, so using it is just nuts in my book). > How widespread is this new form? Does your distro use it? Very few due to the many problems it causes with legacy applications that expect certain device names. > I am trying to decide whether to include my "fix" in a book I am > writing; the book is not specifically Linux oriented, so unless > it is widespread, I won't bother with it. > > For those who are interested, I have this in my ~/.bashrc: > > xchar="\`\'\-\> " > fix_dev="` echo "fixdev() > { > case \\\$1 in" > stat -c "%N" /dev/hd* | tr -s "$xchar" " " | > while read a b > do > printf "\t/dev/%s) fs=%s ;;\n" "$b" "$a" > done > echo " esac > }" > `" > > eval "$fix_dev" > unset fix_dev > > df () > { > command df -P "$@" | { > read FS BL U A C M; > printf "%-20s %12s %9s %10s %9s %s\n" "${FS}" "$BL" "$U" "$A" "$C" > "$M"; > while read fs bl u a c m; do > fixdev $fs > printf "%-20s %12s %9s %10s %9s %s\n" "${fs}" "$bl" "$u" "$a" > "$c" "$m"; > done > } > } Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 20:16:49 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:16:49 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance Message-ID: I'm using software raid. The question is not really about what hardware configuration will make it better, rather, I want to know where to look to get nubmers. I want to know if the io is the bottleneck or if the cpu is the bottleneck. I'm not really interested in changing my setup. I am just curious as to ways I can monitor performance of that system in particular. BTW I have 4 ide controller as in a seperate cable for every drive. Martin Hardware or software raid? raid5 is one of the processing heavy (mainly xor) raid implementations, so you will have some performance impact if you run software raid. The software raid code in the kernel does have mmx and sse code paths to speed up the calculations onf machines which have those instruction sets, which a P120 of course does not. Adding ram shouldn't make any difference to the raid, while a faster CPU would make a difference if using software raid. With hardware raid the card does the xor calculations and hence the cpu speed isn't really relevant. It is possible in some cases on high end machines that using software raid will run faster than hardware raid since the main cpu is many times faster than the dedicated cpu on some hardware of the cheaper raid cards. How many ide ports do you have or are you planning to use scsi? Lennart Sorensen _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 20:22:59 2004 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:22:59 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <41502326.1080901-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4968.5050401@ca.afilias.info> <414F4968.5050401@ca.afilias.info> <41502326.1080901@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040921160418.0678fea0@localhost> At 08:48 AM 21/09/2004 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: >Andrew Hammond wrote: >>Teddy Mills wrote: >>| I have selected no hardware or software yet. >>| >>| Below are my ideas, please read them and reply to the TLUG list or myself >>| with your >>| ideas and advice. I thank you all, I'll be sure to be at the next >>meeting! >>| I missed the last one just 2 days ago! Ack! >>| >>| /teddy >>| >>| PS: >>| I know O'Reilly has a book out called Managing RAID on Linux. Im getting >>| that book asap. >>| >>| >>| ********* >>| FUNCTION: >>| ********* >>| To build a LINUX MYSQL4 production server to handle from 100-5000 >>small(<1k) >>| database transactions daily. >>MySQL is an unsuitable choice for serious database work. > >Hmm, why do I only ever hear pg users say this? Maybe they have more clues. >I use both pgsql and mysql; they both do the job. Our mileage is clearly >varying. That hardly sounds like a ringing endorsement. >For the level of transactions mentioned by the OP, even SQLite will be >more than adequate. The number of transactions is only one of the criteria. If you ever need to generate a report that requires GROUP BY, for example, you will rue the day that you selected a database on the basis of the number of anticipated transactions. Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, Ontario Canada M4N 3P6 Tel: 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 20:29:58 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:29:58 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:16:49 -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > The question is not really about what hardware configuration will make it > better, rather, I want to know where to look to get nubmers. I want to know > if the io is the bottleneck or if the cpu is the bottleneck. I'm not really > interested in changing my setup. I am just curious as to ways I can monitor > performance of that system in particular. BTW I have 4 ide controller as in > a seperate cable for every drive. vmstat is your friend, then. You could also just use 'top' (btw, you get a lot more information out of 'top' when running a 2.6 kernel). Hit the box with a workload, and see if your CPU is maxing out. If not, check to see if the ethernet interface is maxing out. (8MB/s is about all you can squeeze out of a 100bT interface; I frequently get closer to 4, but I havne't tweaked it). Do doublecheck to make sure that DMA is turned on for your HDs, as that makes it feasible (even if not actually possible, I don't know) for a P120 to saturate all four disks, versus being unable to saturate even one. Also make sure that the box is NOT SWAPPING. If it is, more RAM is definitely on the bill. It's normal for all of RAM to be used (as cache), but if you're using more than a few kilobytes of swap, you're probably getting killed by the extra random disk accesses. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 20:40:50 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Make sure you use 3 or 5 disks, not 4. Use hdparm to tune the transfer rates of each disk. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi all! > > I've decided to install a raid 5 on a file server at home. CPU is pentium > 120MHz with 64M ram. I know it's rather scarce but my question is, is there > a way to measure where the biggest performance hit will be? I want to know > of a way I can monitor which compenent is the bottleneck. Will increasing > memory improve performance? Will faster CPU make a difference? I'm looking > for a real technique (ie numbers) from which I can get a better > understanding. I've looked at google groups and all I can really find are > opinions and vague references to "if you have this or that it might give you > better..." > > Thanks > > Martin Duclos > > _________________________________________________________________ > MSN? Calendar keeps you organized and takes the effort out of scheduling > get-togethers. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN? Premium right now and get the > first two months FREE*. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 21:17:02 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:17:02 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040921211702.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 04:16:49PM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > I'm using software raid. > > The question is not really about what hardware configuration will make it > better, rather, I want to know where to look to get nubmers. I want to know > if the io is the bottleneck or if the cpu is the bottleneck. I'm not really > interested in changing my setup. I am just curious as to ways I can monitor > performance of that system in particular. BTW I have 4 ide controller as in > a seperate cable for every drive. For most fileservers, network IO is the bottleneck. After that probably disk speed or cpu speed, but usually disk speed unless the cpu is rather slow. ram helps cache which helps out the disk speed a bit. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 21:19:11 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:19:11 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 04:40:50PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > Make sure you use 3 or 5 disks, not 4. > Use hdparm to tune the transfer rates of each disk. Why not 4? How would that cause any impact on a raid5 setup? I can't currentlyathink ifof anything in the algorithm for raid5 that would be improved by having a power of two plus one disks, but maybe there is. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 21:28:21 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:28:21 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040921160418.0678fea0@localhost> References: <414F4968.5050401@ca.afilias.info> <414F4968.5050401@ca.afilias.info> <5.2.0.9.0.20040921160418.0678fea0@localhost> Message-ID: <41509CF5.7020204@sympatico.ca> CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > > The number of transactions is only one of the criteria. If you ever need > to generate a report that requires GROUP BY, for example, you will rue > the day that you selected a database on the basis of the number of > anticipated transactions. so what database doesn't support 'group by'? MySQL and SQLite both do. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 21:42:16 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:42:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: <20040921211911.GG8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 04:40:50PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > Make sure you use 3 or 5 disks, not 4. > > Use hdparm to tune the transfer rates of each disk. > > Why not 4? How would that cause any impact on a raid5 setup? To avoid having to read from the odd data disk in order to calculate the checksum when doing a write. -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 21:39:34 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:39:34 -0400 Subject: /var/lib/rpm directory deleted - oops Message-ID: Hi I was plaing with rpm and yum. Somehow the database got corrupted. I had the great idea of moving the whole directory (/var/lib/rpm) somewhere else for backup. I played around a bit. I was going to delete the newly created directory because I realised I couldn't rebuild, easily if at all, the contents of that directory. Well, I kinda deleted my original copy of the directory by mistake. Anyhow, is there a way to recover or rebuild the contents of that directory? I know this is highly improbable but if there is someone that has the answer, I'm all ears! Martin _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft?? SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 21:53:35 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 17:53:35 -0400 Subject: CUPS PDF Message-ID: <4150A2DF.3070205@canada.com> Hi All, As I would like to create PDF files from applications that cannot do it (Firefox for instance), I have installed CUPS with the PDF extension. As I am usind Sarge (Debain), I have installed cups-pdf in addition to cups. I can create the printer but, when I print, the printer goes offline and if I try to restart it, I get the following error message in the /var/log/cups/cups-pdf_log: Tue Sep 21 17:46:46 2004 [ERROR] failed to create anonymous output directory (/nonexistent/cups-pdf) I have done a quick research on the net without any luck. Do you have any idea? Thanks, Gilles -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 22:53:23 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang (James) Li) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 15:53:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: bash shell env change - copy/paste etc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040921225323.28605.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> > > > also, the ls command result shows the file/directory in some > > uncomfortable colores, how do i make the permanent changes? > > Use dircolors. > > Create a file with: > > dircolors > $HOME/.dircolours > > Then edit the file (it will be commented to make it quite easy), > and implement the edited file with: > > eval `dircolors $HOME/.dircolours` > > Put the eval line in your $HOME/.bashrc file. I tried the above and the end result of 'ls' got me no color at all now. i also tried `dircolors -b > .dircolors` then in .bashrc i have eval `dircolors .dircolours` with no avil. thanks. Qiang. > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 23:08:46 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:08:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash shell env change - copy/paste etc In-Reply-To: <20040921225323.28605.qmail-o3hY8HCn/eSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921225323.28605.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Qiang (James) Li wrote: >> >>> also, the ls command result shows the file/directory in some >>> uncomfortable colores, how do i make the permanent changes? >> >> Use dircolors. >> >> Create a file with: >> >> dircolors > $HOME/.dircolours >> >> Then edit the file (it will be commented to make it quite easy), >> and implement the edited file with: >> >> eval `dircolors $HOME/.dircolours` >> >> Put the eval line in your $HOME/.bashrc file. > > I tried the above and the end result of 'ls' got me no color at all now. > > i also tried `dircolors -b > .dircolors` then in .bashrc i have > eval `dircolors .dircolours` with no avil. By default ls does not use colours. You need the --color option. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 23:35:12 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang (James) Li) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 16:35:12 -0700 (PDT) Subject: bash shell env change - copy/paste etc -- SOLVED In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040921233512.6524.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> thanks for the help, Chris. you are right, i have to use ls --color to see the result. but i think i need to run `dircolors -p > .dircolors` first, then edit the file. note I used -p. eval `dircolors .dircolors` to make this take effect. `info dircolors` reveal much more info than man. that helped. Qiang --- "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > > >> > >>> also, the ls command result shows the file/directory in some > >>> uncomfortable colores, how do i make the permanent changes? > >> > >> Use dircolors. > >> > >> Create a file with: > >> > >> dircolors > $HOME/.dircolours > >> > >> Then edit the file (it will be commented to make it quite easy), > >> and implement the edited file with: > >> > >> eval `dircolors $HOME/.dircolours` > >> > >> Put the eval line in your $HOME/.bashrc file. > > > > I tried the above and the end result of 'ls' got me no color at all now. > > > > i also tried `dircolors -b > .dircolors` then in .bashrc i have > > eval `dircolors .dircolours` with no avil. > > By default ls does not use colours. You need the --color option. > > -- > Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org > ================================================================= > Everything in moderation -- including moderation > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 21 23:45:36 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 19:45:36 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key Message-ID: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> I have a 512 MB Lexar JumpDrive Usb Key and I would like to load a Live-Cd linux onto it so that I can access my own portable linux wherever I go. However, i have found that my computer doesn't seem to be so friendly in booting from Usb Drives. The option is available but when trying to boot from a version of Damn Small Linux, it doesn't seem to work. I can go into more detail, just ask for more information. Help would be greatly appreciated! -- Check out www.ihost4u.net for fast, affordable and reliable web hosting! Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 01:04:32 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 21:04:32 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040922010432.GD2463@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 05:42:16PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 04:40:50PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > > Make sure you use 3 or 5 disks, not 4. > > > Use hdparm to tune the transfer rates of each disk. > > > > Why not 4? How would that cause any impact on a raid5 setup? > > To avoid having to read from the odd data disk in order to calculate the > checksum when doing a write. With 3 disks (2 data + 1 parity) there is a speedup, but for more than 2 data disks there is no difference in the cost of a write. with 2+1 disks (called d1, d2, and dp, to write a sector on d1, you just compute the parity from scratch: read matching sector from d2 xor d2 data with d1 data write d1 data to d1 write xor data to dp with n+1 disks (called d1, d2, ... dn, and dp), to write a sector on d1, you compute the change to apply to the old parity (since the old parity is correct for all of the sectors except the one that is being changed): read old sector from d1 read matching sector from dp xor dp data with old d1 data xor dp(xor)old d1 data with new d1 data write final xor result to dp write new d1 data to d1 However, this parity computation can be optimized if the data is striped across all of the disks, and a long enough write occurs. Then, simply compute the new parity sector from scratch whenever a complete set of d1..dn is being written and then write all n+1 sectors at once with no reads required. This means that the parity is being computed and written only once for every n data records that are written, and no old data needs to be read in to accomplish it. In fact, whenever half or more of the data sectors are being overwritten, it is cheaper to read the other sectors and compute the parity than to read the old data of the overwritten sectors to compute the delta. The 2+1 case above is actually just one case of this. However, if the old data happens to be lying around in cache already then going back to the delta computation is cheaper. The answers is always "it depends". -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 00:40:15 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 20:40:15 -0400 Subject: CD data recovery? In-Reply-To: <20040921155458.GB9183-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <41500651.5060609@rogers.com> <20040921121736.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040921155458.GB9183@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <4150C9EF.4050303@rogers.com> John Macdonald wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 09:55:02AM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > >>Now we're all waiting for those 500GB solid-state memories... ;) >> >>-- >>taa >>/*eof*/ > > > If you are will to wait a "little" while for the technical > details to get resolved, there will be much higher densities > than a mere 500GB. > > IBM research has just demonstrated the ability to detect and > flip the spin on a single electron: > > http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/09/21/135247&tid=126&tid=14 > > (But then you'll still have to wait a "little" longer for the > commercial details to get resolved to a consumer price level > you're willing to afford, of course.) > So, you figure what, three weeks? Should be in Factory Direct, by the end of the year. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mike.kirk-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 02:01:36 2004 From: mike.kirk-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Mike Kirk) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:01:36 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance References: Message-ID: <022a01c4a048$1b54ac80$1b00a8c0@cruncher> > I've decided to install a raid 5 on a file server at home. CPU is pentium > 120MHz with 64M ram. I know it's rather scarce but my question is, is there > a way to measure where the biggest performance hit will be? I think you'll be CPU limited with software RAID 5 on that system. Actually you don't really have enough memory for an effective file cache either: I vote you just replace it like some of the other posters said :). I guess it all depends on what you're using it for. It may not be fast, but it will be reliable. To get some number you could do something like "bonnie++ -d -x1 -u0 -f -q" ... it will dump out numbers for KB/s read/write/rewrite on your array, plus give %CPU for each. I just played with some hardware/software RAID5 myself and I found it could take up to nearly 30% CPU on an AMD 2700+ with 8 drives. In my case the extra CPU was essentially free anyways.. so I used software RAID.. effectively reducing a pricely hardware RAID card to a 8-port IDE controller. The tables in this Star/OpenOffice doc give an idea of what bonnie++ spits out: http://battlemage2.dyndns.org:88/Hardware_vs_Software_RAID.sxc As for others who say network IO is the limiting factor, well, an Intel GigE card is about $75 or less these days: I think with networking getting this cheap it's still the drives that slow things down. Of course, being new to Linux, I could be talkin' outta my butt :) Hope your setup works out OK! Regards, Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 02:40:12 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 22:40:12 -0400 Subject: TM Server In-Reply-To: References: <20040920194009.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920201455.79592.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> <20040920202630.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040920205225.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040922024012.5999A4015@cbbrowne.com> > On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 16:52:25 -0400, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 20, 2004 at 04:31:01PM -0400, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > > > I would personally avoid any HP desktop machine on the basis that they're > > > fugly proprietary plastic toys. I don't know about their PC servers. > > > I have seen > > > some of the old HPPA workstations...THOSE were cool (or hot, depending; t hat > > > dual 180MHz box with a 1200W power supply probably has a non-trivial BTU > > > rating). > > > > Yeah, but the OS sucked and the price tag was insane. > > Correction: the price tag _was_ insane. These puppies can be had for > just a couple of hundred dollars, are probably still more reliable > than consumer PC parts, and will strike envy into any visiting geek. > And you can run Linux on them now, too, so the OS no longer has to > suck. ;) > > BTW, take me with a grain of salt; I've never actually had to deal > with one of these boxen personally, I've just got friends who do. HP hardware is noted for being _way_ reliable, at least when you go past "Pee Cee" stuff. But these old PA-RISC boxes are pretty dramatically underpowered by any modern standard. If it's got a GB of memory, I'd pay a couple hundred bucks, but it's much more likely that they have 32-64MB, and are realistically toys. I think it would be pretty neat to get an SGI Indigo; that's nonetheless unlikely to be as potent as a low end Athlon with a half-decent 64MB graphics card. -- output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "linuxfinances.info") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html The nice thing about Windows is - It does not just crash, it displays a dialog box and lets you press 'OK' first. (Arno Schaefer's .sig) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 03:57:14 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2004 23:57:14 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 05:42:16PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > To avoid having to read from the odd data disk in order to calculate the > checksum when doing a write. You have to know the value of n-1 disks in order to calculate the xor value for the last disk, so you either have to read before write on one disk, or read from all disks and do a write. I don't see how either is affected by number of disks. If you read the xisting checksum and existing value of the drive you are writing a block to, you know all that you need to know to recalculate the checksum, no matter how many disks are involved in that checksum. Reading all the disk and calculating the checksum from scratch is a good way to verify the data integrety as well, so I suspect that is what is usually done. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 04:03:05 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 00:03:05 -0400 Subject: bash shell env change - copy/paste etc In-Reply-To: <20040921225323.28605.qmail-o3hY8HCn/eSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921225323.28605.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040922040305.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 03:53:23PM -0700, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > I tried the above and the end result of 'ls' got me no color at all now. > > i also tried `dircolors -b > .dircolors` then in .bashrc i have > eval `dircolors .dircolours` with no avil. in my .bashrc I have: if [ "$TERM" != "dumb" ]; then eval `dircolors -b` alias ls='ls --color=auto' That works here, so it may work for you. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 05:56:33 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 01:56:33 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <20040909183808.D60DE6DA86-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909183808.D60DE6DA86@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <41511411.3060100@rogers.com> > Now, a dual core Pentium M... That'd be sick. Someday soon, I hope, we'll be seeing those 2 (4?) PPC cores to a die from our friends at IBM ("Cell" processor?). That'll be sweet, if not wicked expensive. And none of this half-assed pseudo-vector MMX/(what's the AMD equivalent again? SSE?) crud. Nice tasty altivec/SIMD goodness. If they do wind up in the next xbox iteration, it might even be worth picking one up, though I'll probably figure out a way to steal one first since I don't want my cash going to M$. Unless buying one and *not* using it for games would help to bankrupt them... If there's a god in the universe, someone will start making PPC or G5 mobos that are affordable (i.e. $500) This here is pretty sweet: http://www.apple.com/xserve and so is this: http://www.apple.com/xserve/cluster/ These days are good days to be alive, my friends! Too bad Alpha's gone the way of the dodo, and that they didn't keep it alive and ratchet up the speed. It was always the champ. At least the EV bus interface lives on in the AMD chips, which explains why they take to n-way board designs so much easier. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 11:57:03 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:57:03 -0400 Subject: Hello, been a while, dual CPU mobos In-Reply-To: <41511411.3060100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040909183808.D60DE6DA86@lethe.ss.org> <41511411.3060100@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040922115703.858364045@cbbrowne.com> > If there's a god in the universe, someone will start making PPC or G5 > mobos that are affordable (i.e. $500) > This here is pretty sweet: http://www.apple.com/xserve > and so is this: http://www.apple.com/xserve/cluster/ There is, alas, the assumption that probably won't turn out. There are basically two vendors building PPC/G5 motherboards: - IBM, and - Apple. Both are vendors that would much rather sell you full priced expensive systems than mere motherboards. Regrettably, I don't see any likelihood of them deciding: "Why bother? We'll just become discount motherboard vendors instead!" -- output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html "Microsoft is a cross between the Borg and the Ferengi. Unfortunately, they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to do their programming." -- Simon Slavin in asr -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 11:58:01 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:58:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: <20040922035714.GH8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 21 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Sep 21, 2004 at 05:42:16PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > To avoid having to read from the odd data disk in order to calculate the > > checksum when doing a write. > > You have to know the value of n-1 disks in order to calculate the xor > value for the last disk, so you either have to read before write on one > disk, or read from all disks and do a write. I don't see how either is > affected by number of disks. OK, I'll make one last try to explain this. The smallest RAID chunk size supported by Linux is 4KB. The sector size on an IDE drive is 512-bytes. When writing a 4KB chunk to 2, 4, or 8 data drives, no read is necessary for checksum calculation. -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 12:16:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:16:39 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040922121639.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 07:58:01AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > OK, I'll make one last try to explain this. The smallest RAID chunk size > supported by Linux is 4KB. The sector size on an IDE drive is 512-bytes. > When writing a 4KB chunk to 2, 4, or 8 data drives, no read is necessary > for checksum calculation. Well in that case I guess you would be right. That would apply if you actually ran the chunk size that small (and I thought the chunk size was how much to write to each disk at a time, not how big a chunk across all disks were). I think from benchmarks I have seen most people find 64k chunks per disk a good balance. Of course on updating data in a block, you might have to read the block, modify and write back, but that is always true so no real loss there. I well agree that if you are writing a multiple of the size of data that fits acress the number of disks, you gain a bit from having 2&n data disks, although if I had 16k chunks and 3 data drives and wrote 48k, I would get the same benefit. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 12:59:19 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: <20040922121639.GJ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922121639.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 07:58:01AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > OK, I'll make one last try to explain this. The smallest RAID chunk size > > supported by Linux is 4KB. The sector size on an IDE drive is 512-bytes. > > When writing a 4KB chunk to 2, 4, or 8 data drives, no read is necessary > > for checksum calculation. > > Well in that case I guess you would be right. That would apply if you > actually ran the chunk size that small [...] No, a larger chunk size doesn't eliminate the read for checksum calculation when you have an odd number of data drives. > I well agree that if you are writing a multiple of the size of data that > fits acress the number of disks, you gain a bit from having 2&n data > disks, although if I had 16k chunks and 3 data drives and wrote 48k, I > would get the same benefit. No. You're wrong again. But you'll have to figure it out on your own; I'm not wasting any more of my time... -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 14:53:18 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:53:18 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922121639.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040922145318.GA13477@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 08:59:19AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 07:58:01AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > > OK, I'll make one last try to explain this. The smallest RAID chunk size > > > supported by Linux is 4KB. The sector size on an IDE drive is 512-bytes. > > > When writing a 4KB chunk to 2, 4, or 8 data drives, no read is necessary > > > for checksum calculation. > > > > Well in that case I guess you would be right. That would apply if you > > actually ran the chunk size that small [...] > > No, a larger chunk size doesn't eliminate the read for checksum > calculation when you have an odd number of data drives. > > > I well agree that if you are writing a multiple of the size of data that > > fits acress the number of disks, you gain a bit from having 2&n data > > disks, although if I had 16k chunks and 3 data drives and wrote 48k, I > > would get the same benefit. > > No. You're wrong again. But you'll have to figure it out on your own; > I'm not wasting any more of my time... Actually, he's right. If a write exactly spans all of the data disks in a strip, you can use that data to compute the parity without reading any old values from the disk first. If a write spans some, but not all, of the data disks in a stripe, then data must be read from the disk to compute the new parity info. There is no difference between odd and even number of disks; the issue is whether a write goes to all or some of the disks. The chunk size affects how large a write buffer must be to span all of the disks. A larger chunk size means you have to issue proportionally larger writes to fully span the stripe. When performance is really important, using extremely large buffers will ensure that most of the data in the buffer is a series of complete stripes, and the corresponding parity can be computed directly. If the buffer is big enough, it is less important whether is is exactly aligned on a stripe boundary and an exact multiple of the stripe size - the extra work for the partial stripes on the front and/or back of the buffer is small compared to the speed of the large amount in the middle (and that extra can be removing by delaying the write of the trailing fragment and merging it with the leading fragment of the next write). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 14:18:54 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:18:54 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems Message-ID: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> Hey guys, This is sort of a follow-up to a post from August. At the time, my Terayon cable modem was acting a little weird and I was experiencing connection issues with Libranet (either as a result of the modem or the dhcp client). It *was* resolved by changing the dhcp client (from pump to dhcp), however shortly thereafter I was still experiencing strange/intermittant issues with the modem: power would go off, connection would flicker out, etc.. So, I finally had a Rogers guy come over and take a look. He replaced the Terayon with a Motorolla Surfboard (585100). And now...I can't connect. The dhcp client is simply not able to find a new lease. I called R at H and was told that the modem apparently is 'online' and reachable from their end. Certainly, all the lights are on, and it certainly looks like it's working. However, they also told me that the hostname (crxxxxx-a) isn't necessary anymore. But, even removing the send-hostname option didn't have any effect. I've tried different versions of dhcp/dhcp-client, but still no luck. I'm really, really desperate for any help/pointers that I may not be thinking about. [so desperate as to think about loading Win98 on one of the partitions, just to prove to myself that the modem is operational - that desperate]. Any help would be most appreciated. Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell.? - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 14:40:24 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 10:40:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: <20040922145318.GA13477-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922121639.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922145318.GA13477@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 08:59:19AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > I well agree that if you are writing a multiple of the size of data that > > > fits acress the number of disks, you gain a bit from having 2&n data > > > disks, although if I had 16k chunks and 3 data drives and wrote 48k, I > > > would get the same benefit. > > > > No. You're wrong again. But you'll have to figure it out on your own; > > I'm not wasting any more of my time... > > Actually, he's right. No, you're wrong too. > If a write exactly spans all of the data > disks in a strip, you can use that data to compute the parity > without reading any old values from the disk first. This is a correct statement, but you falsely imply that is what happens with Len's 48KB write. > If a write > spans some, but not all, of the data disks in a stripe, then > data must be read from the disk to compute the new parity info. This is a correct statement, and this is what happens when you write 16KB chunks to a stripe of 4 disks (3 data + 1 parity). The Linux RAID code doesn't coalesce writes of multiple chunks (i.e. 3x 16KB chunks) to optimize away the theoretically unecessary read for parity computation. -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 15:56:54 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:56:54 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922121639.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922145318.GA13477@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20040922155654.GA13775@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:40:24AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > If a write > > spans some, but not all, of the data disks in a stripe, then > > data must be read from the disk to compute the new parity info. > This is a correct statement, and this is what happens when you write 16KB > chunks to a stripe of 4 disks (3 data + 1 parity). The Linux RAID code > doesn't coalesce writes of multiple chunks (i.e. 3x 16KB chunks) to > optimize away the theoretically unecessary read for parity computation. So, the driver does not compute the parity directly from the data for a 3+1 setup when you write exactly one entire data stripe of 12k, but it does for a 4+1 setup when you write exactly one data stripe of 16k? That's insane. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 15:51:37 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:51:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: <20040922155654.GA13775-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922121639.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922145318.GA13477@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040922155654.GA13775@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, John Macdonald wrote: > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:40:24AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > > If a write > > > spans some, but not all, of the data disks in a stripe, then > > > data must be read from the disk to compute the new parity info. > > This is a correct statement, and this is what happens when you write 16KB > > chunks to a stripe of 4 disks (3 data + 1 parity). The Linux RAID code > > doesn't coalesce writes of multiple chunks (i.e. 3x 16KB chunks) to > > optimize away the theoretically unecessary read for parity computation. > > So, the driver does not compute the parity directly from the > data for a 3+1 setup when you write exactly one entire data > stripe of 12k, but it does for a 4+1 setup when you write > exactly one data stripe of 16k? No, there you go trying to put words in my mouth again. I've been polite up to this point, but you seem intent on being rude because you don't like being proven wrong. RAID doesn't write exactly one entire data stripe of 12KB, since that is not a valid chunk size. When writing 16KB to a 3+1 drive array, the first 12KB written should not require a read for parity computation. It's the last 4KB that will require the read. Despite all your efforts to complicate the issue, it's only grade-5 math. If the number of disk sectors written modulus the number of data drives != 0, a read will be required for parity computation. The number of disk sectors written for a RAID chunk has to be a power of 2. Therefore with 2 data disks (+1 for parity), a read will NEVER be required for parity computation when writing a chunk. If you still can't comprehend that, you'll have to ask someone else for help as I've sent in my unsubscribe request to majordomo-jmbJ75VLJBo at public.gmane.org -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 16:10:13 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:10:13 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <1802076605.20040922101854-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> I'm on Rogers, with the SB5100 and it works fine. Can you connect to the modem status page at http://192.168.100.1? Also, I believe that if you press the standby switch (the one on the top of the modem, also make sure that the modem is not currently in standby), the modem will act as a dhcp server. Also, that modem web page contains info, that may help in resolving your problem. Matt Cahill wrote: > > Hey guys, > > This is sort of a follow-up to a post from August. At the time, my > Terayon cable modem was acting a little weird and I was > experiencing connection issues with Libranet (either as a result > of the modem or the dhcp client). It *was* resolved by changing > the dhcp client (from pump to dhcp), however shortly thereafter I > was still experiencing strange/intermittant issues with the modem: > power would go off, connection would flicker out, etc.. > > So, I finally had a Rogers guy come over and take a look. He > replaced the Terayon with a Motorolla Surfboard (585100). And > now...I can't connect. > > The dhcp client is simply not able to find a new lease. > > I called R at H and was told that the modem apparently is 'online' > and reachable from their end. Certainly, all the lights are on, > and it certainly looks like it's working. However, they also told > me that the hostname (crxxxxx-a) isn't necessary anymore. But, > even removing the send-hostname option didn't have any effect. > > I've tried different versions of dhcp/dhcp-client, but still no > luck. I'm really, really desperate for any help/pointers that I > may not be thinking about. [so desperate as to think about loading > Win98 on one of the partitions, just to prove to myself that the > modem is operational - that desperate]. > > Any help would be most appreciated. > > Matt > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 16:31:17 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 12:31:17 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <4151A3E5.4080602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> Wednesday, September 22, 2004, 12:10:13 PM, you wrote: JK> I'm on Rogers, with the SB5100 and it works fine. Can you connect to JK> the modem status page at http://192.168.100.1? Also, I believe that if JK> you press the standby switch (the one on the top of the modem, also make JK> sure that the modem is not currently in standby), the modem will act as JK> a dhcp server. Also, that modem web page contains info, that may help JK> in resolving your problem. James, Good points. I'll check it out when I get home. What kinda p's me is that, although the technician left the box & cables that came w/ the modem, there was no instruction booklet. Thus, the 'standby switch' has only been revealed to me now :) Regarding the modem status page, I'm assuming that any browser will do? Thanks again, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 18:59:56 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:59:56 -0400 Subject: Raid 5 performance In-Reply-To: References: <20040921211911.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922035714.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922121639.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040922145318.GA13477@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040922155654.GA13775@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20040922185956.GA14217@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 11:51:37AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, John Macdonald wrote: > > > On Wed, Sep 22, 2004 at 10:40:24AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > > > If a write > > > > spans some, but not all, of the data disks in a stripe, then > > > > data must be read from the disk to compute the new parity info. > > > This is a correct statement, and this is what happens when you write 16KB > > > chunks to a stripe of 4 disks (3 data + 1 parity). The Linux RAID code > > > doesn't coalesce writes of multiple chunks (i.e. 3x 16KB chunks) to > > > optimize away the theoretically unecessary read for parity computation. > > > > So, the driver does not compute the parity directly from the > > data for a 3+1 setup when you write exactly one entire data > > stripe of 12k, but it does for a 4+1 setup when you write > > exactly one data stripe of 16k? > > No, there you go trying to put words in my mouth again. I've been polite > up to this point, but you seem intent on being rude because you don't like > being proven wrong. > > RAID doesn't write exactly one entire data stripe of 12KB, since that > is not a valid chunk size. When writing 16KB to a 3+1 drive array, the > first 12KB written should not require a read for parity computation. It's > the last 4KB that will require the read. I'm not trying to be rude, and I only put words into my own mouth. Consider my remarks to be prefaced with "if I understand you correctly, that means..." - I would expect that to be naturally assumed by all readers but I'm hereby saying it explicitly and I apologise for not making it explicit before. Where does the 16k "chunk" get defined, by who and for what purpose? With a 3+1 setup, there are 3 data disks each using a 4k disk allocation; giving 12k of data on the full RAID group in that full stripe (plus 4k of parity data in the "extra" disk's corresponding location). If the program issues a 12k write, why would the driver require that it get put into 16k "chunks" before computing parity info? The parity computation has to be done on 12k units - the 3 4k portions are xor'ed together to get the parity data. Whatever purpose does it serve to care at any point in this process about 16k chunks? (Is this to match Linux internal buffer allocation size or something? I can't see any reason, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.) I will admit that I haven't looked at the Linux driver, but I have worked extensively with EMC Clariion and Symmetrix disk arrays. In those boxes, the data is processed at the natural size for the stripe width. They also have dual power supplies and huge amounts of cache, so keeping the data in memory long enough to collect the full stripe out of multiple host write activities is easy. That is equally true for 3+1, 4+1, and 7+1 setups, which are the ones most commonly supported on those disk arrays. > Despite all your efforts to complicate the issue, it's only grade-5 math. > If the number of disk sectors written modulus the number of data drives != > 0, a read will be required for parity computation. The number of disk > sectors written for a RAID chunk has to be a power of 2. Therefore with 2 > data disks (+1 for parity), a read will NEVER be required for parity > computation when writing a chunk. You state this as a rule that 5-th grade math can apply, but you do not justify the rule. I know that I was never taught anything about using xor to compute parity in grade 5; not until university. Nor did grade 5 introduce any reason to take 12k units and put them in 16k chunks on the way to storing them in 12k containers. Give a valid reason and I'll accept the rule, but not just an unsupported statement that this rule applies. The xor parity track can be computed from all of the current data, or it can be updated using the old and new values of any changed portions to revise the old parity. There is nothing there that depends upon whether the total number of data disks is even or odd. I've done the math for this and it works. It worked back in university and it continued to work in various programs I've written over the years. > If you still can't comprehend that, you'll have to ask someone else for > help as I've sent in my unsubscribe request to majordomo-jmbJ75VLJBo at public.gmane.org Offhand, I doubt anyone else could help explain this in the way that you are describing, so I've copied you on this message. Feel free to either ignore this message or to resubscribe - I won't copy you personally again. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 18:27:13 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:27:13 -0400 Subject: Brand new old hardware to give away Message-ID: <20040922182746.5F1DB6DA70@lethe.ss.org> Howdy all, I just got a shipment of parts in and I found a number of brand new hardware, most including manuals and accessories (pwr supply, cables, etc). It seems it is mostly 80's vintage, Once I sort through everything I will post a complete list of what is up for grabs. I have a really nice 3600 modem with everything I just pulled out. If anyone is interested in this hardware, please drop me a line or send me an email at info | inewview | com I am in the Lawrence and Allen area. Sid 416 782 2761 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 18:53:36 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:53:36 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <1418408540.20040922123117-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> Matt Cahill wrote: > Wednesday, September 22, 2004, 12:10:13 PM, you wrote: > > JK> I'm on Rogers, with the SB5100 and it works fine. Can you connect to > JK> the modem status page at http://192.168.100.1? Also, I believe that if > JK> you press the standby switch (the one on the top of the modem, also make > JK> sure that the modem is not currently in standby), the modem will act as > JK> a dhcp server. Also, that modem web page contains info, that may help > JK> in resolving your problem. > > > James, > > Good points. I'll check it out when I get home. What kinda p's me > is that, although the technician left the box & cables that came w/ > the modem, there was no instruction booklet. Thus, the 'standby > switch' has only been revealed to me now :) > > Regarding the modem status page, I'm assuming that any browser will > do? Yes, I use Konqueror. Maybe you should ask Rogers for a manual etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 20:53:24 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Sep 2004 16:53:24 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: writes: > I have a 512 MB Lexar JumpDrive Usb Key and I would like to load a > Live-Cd linux onto it so that I can access my own portable linux > wherever I go. However, i have found that my computer doesn't seem to > be so friendly in booting from Usb Drives. The option is available but > when trying to boot from a version of Damn Small Linux, it doesn't > seem to work. I can go into more detail, just ask for more > information. Help would be greatly appreciated! I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing another mbr. Debian has an mbr package which contains DOS/Windows compatible MBRs. This allowed my notebook to boot one USB key (new 256MB Sandisk) that was previously unbootable. Another key (older 64MB), required installation of spb2_mbr.sec from spblinux. http://www.8ung.at/spblinux/ YMMV. Good luck, -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 21:11:38 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 22 Sep 2004 17:11:38 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Tim Writer writes: > was previously unbootable. Another key (older 64MB), required installation > of spb2_mbr.sec from spblinux. > > http://www.8ung.at/spblinux/ > > YMMV. Good luck, Definitely. For example, we couldn't get a USB stick with GRUB to boot. We put lilo on there and had no problem. Could have been something stupid that we weren't doing with grub but... -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 21:13:16 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing > another mbr... The story I hear -- haven't experimented myself -- is that the BIOS, the MBR, and the filesystem itself all have to mesh perfectly for it to work. Not enough attention was paid to standardizing the details, and the result is a mess, where the probability of everything cooperating properly without expert attention is quite low. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 21:39:34 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:39:34 -0400 Subject: CUPS PDF In-Reply-To: <4150A2DF.3070205-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4150A2DF.3070205@canada.com> Message-ID: <4151F116.1080909@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Gilles Fourchet wrote: | Tue Sep 21 17:46:46 2004 [ERROR] failed to create anonymous output | directory (/nonexistent/cups-pdf) | | I have done a quick research on the net without any luck. Do you have | any idea? Check to see if you need to tell cups-pdf were to save the file. If it is really trying to create the directory "/nonexistent/cups-pdf" then it probably does not have permission to do so (for good reasons). It should be outputing to some temporary directoy like /var/tmp or something. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBUfEURreNkzrRRLQRAq1xAJ9gB0d4wHC1Grz6MdZQiYqxHfvNSwCbBRv3 pTx4FqEk6R1gQICBqOLU8ZQ= =rYZ6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 22:34:11 2004 From: bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Bruce Cowper) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:34:11 +0100 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All, You are correct. There are a number of USB keys that use a 'floppy emulation' and report to the BIOS that they are floppy drives. Often the devices that support this require to be formatted as such, which can affect capacity. The problem tends to be support for bootable USB devices in general, where some motherboards say they will boot from USB keys etc, but in practice the standards vary so much that they only support a small range of devices. I have a number of customers that use USB keys for booting other operating systems successfully, but thay all had issues with finding combinations of motherboards, BIOS versions and USB keys that actually worked. One example of a device a customer is sucessfully using is the SOYO Cig at r USB flash storage device http://www.soyousa.com/kb/kbdesc.php?id=240. Thanks Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Henry Spencer To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 17:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Boot from Usb Key > On 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't > boot > > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some > boards will > > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This > seems to > > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by > installing > > another mbr... > > The story I hear -- haven't experimented myself -- is that the BIOS, > the > MBR, and the filesystem itself all have to mesh perfectly for it to > work. > Not enough attention was paid to standardizing the details, and the > result > is a mess, where the probability of everything cooperating properly > without expert attention is quite low. > > Henry Spencer > > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 22 22:53:39 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 22 Sep 2004 18:53:39 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Henry Spencer writes: > On 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot > > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will > > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to > > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing > > another mbr... > > The story I hear -- haven't experimented myself -- is that the BIOS, the > MBR, and the filesystem itself all have to mesh perfectly for it to work. > Not enough attention was paid to standardizing the details, and the result > is a mess, where the probability of everything cooperating properly > without expert attention is quite low. But don't worry, Microsoft is going to fix this with their new standard. ;-) http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040916.html -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 00:05:06 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:05:06 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8eb589e0409221705930f77d@mail.gmail.com> I have tried spblinux AND syslinux on USB key... If I could somehow figure out how my bios works with usb keys... I have a dell dimension 4600 and they should have somewhere instructions on how to boot from a usb key. On 22 Sep 2004 18:53:39 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > Henry Spencer writes: > > > On 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > > > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot > > > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will > > > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to > > > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing > > > another mbr... > > > > The story I hear -- haven't experimented myself -- is that the BIOS, the > > MBR, and the filesystem itself all have to mesh perfectly for it to work. > > Not enough attention was paid to standardizing the details, and the result > > is a mess, where the probability of everything cooperating properly > > without expert attention is quite low. > > But don't worry, Microsoft is going to fix this with their new standard. ;-) > > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040916.html > > > > -- > tim writer starnix inc. > 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 00:26:41 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:26:41 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: <8eb589e0409221705930f77d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8eb589e0409221705930f77d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8eb589e040922172645003bd0@mail.gmail.com> I found the strangest thing. This program called HP USB Disk Format Tool. It formated my Lexar USB key (with no problems) and created a bootable dos disc. However, it must have written it all to the mbr because there are no files on the drive. If I could somehow get the program to intepret my linux boot files as dos system files, I might be able to get a bootable system. Any ideas as to what I could do? On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 20:05:06 -0400, jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have tried spblinux AND syslinux on USB key... If I could somehow > figure out how my bios works with usb keys... I have a dell dimension > 4600 and they should have somewhere instructions on how to boot from a > usb key. > > > > > On 22 Sep 2004 18:53:39 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > > Henry Spencer writes: > > > > > On 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > > > > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot > > > > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will > > > > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to > > > > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing > > > > another mbr... > > > > > > The story I hear -- haven't experimented myself -- is that the BIOS, the > > > MBR, and the filesystem itself all have to mesh perfectly for it to work. > > > Not enough attention was paid to standardizing the details, and the result > > > is a mess, where the probability of everything cooperating properly > > > without expert attention is quite low. > > > > But don't worry, Microsoft is going to fix this with their new standard. ;-) > > > > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040916.html > > > > > > > > -- > > tim writer starnix inc. > > 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada > > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > Check out www.ihost4u.net > > Jonathan > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 02:45:38 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 22:45:38 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <41504222.5080304-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> <41503C2F.4060907@ca.afilias.info> <41504222.5080304@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <415238D2.60408@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Madison Kelly wrote: | Well, though it isn't GPL there are numerous other split-level | licensed programs that are popular in the Linux community (MySQL comes | to mind). The community (and in turn you) will benefit by having a | freely available, easy to use backup program for home users. Companies | will be required to pay for the most recent version but they will now | have one more backup option to chose from which may well help a Linux | advocate to convince their company to migrate (as Suse OpenExchange | currently does). Actually, MySQL is licenced under a commercial license _and_ GPL, which does allow free commercial use. Your license does not. That is definetely a stopper if you are trying to get community involvement, but at least your boss gets to make some money, so it's not necessairely a bad thing. As far as the market niche goes, I definetely see the need for a new-generation user-friendly backup program. Something that is designed for USB HDs and CD/DVD-R media, not tape. The only GPL alternative I know is DAR (and KDar), but they still lack the user-friendly element. (I know about Mondo, but it was too inflexible so it didn't worked as I wanted). - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBUjjQRreNkzrRRLQRAnSgAJwO3O6GZfXiapC4W620mVK7YS+5xwCgnE1j 58R323pXYSNIWXWFMtGoh6Q= =LaIs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 03:27:00 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:27:00 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121EA2E@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Why does it need to be GPL? If is isn't GPL you probably won't get a community of people helping you, but tons of companies allow for beta testing. This is so bugs can be worked out and beta testers can offer opinions on the product before a final version is sold. As an aside I use Microlite Backupedge. I find the interface easy enough for my staff to use, it works with a variety of devices and the price is right. It also has a very easy disaster recovery system. Since some people have already offered up which program they like. I would be interested in a feature list so that I can compare what you are offering to what is already on the market. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Anton Markov Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:46 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Madison Kelly wrote: | Well, though it isn't GPL there are numerous other split-level | licensed programs that are popular in the Linux community (MySQL comes | to mind). The community (and in turn you) will benefit by having a | freely available, easy to use backup program for home users. Companies | will be required to pay for the most recent version but they will now | have one more backup option to chose from which may well help a Linux | advocate to convince their company to migrate (as Suse OpenExchange | currently does). Actually, MySQL is licenced under a commercial license _and_ GPL, which does allow free commercial use. Your license does not. That is definetely a stopper if you are trying to get community involvement, but at least your boss gets to make some money, so it's not necessairely a bad thing. As far as the market niche goes, I definetely see the need for a new-generation user-friendly backup program. Something that is designed for USB HDs and CD/DVD-R media, not tape. The only GPL alternative I know is DAR (and KDar), but they still lack the user-friendly element. (I know about Mondo, but it was too inflexible so it didn't worked as I wanted). - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBUjjQRreNkzrRRLQRAnSgAJwO3O6GZfXiapC4W620mVK7YS+5xwCgnE1j 58R323pXYSNIWXWFMtGoh6Q= =LaIs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 04:06:50 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:06:50 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121EA2E-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121EA2E@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <41524BDA.6090901@alteeve.com> Wil McGilvery wrote: > Why does it need to be GPL? > > If is isn't GPL you probably won't get a community of people helping you, but tons of companies allow for beta testing. This is so bugs can be worked out and beta testers can offer opinions on the product before a final version is sold. > > As an aside I use Microlite Backupedge. I find the interface easy enough for my staff to use, it works with a variety of devices and the price is right. > > It also has a very easy disaster recovery system. > > Since some people have already offered up which program they like. I would be interested in a feature list so that I can compare what you are offering to what is already on the market. > > Regards, Thanks for the feedback! Here is a feature list off the top of my head (I will do a proper one a little closer to releasing it). It is what I have written so far for the help system though I haven't properly edited it yet: (for the record it does not yet support CD/DVD-R drives though that is planned. How soon it will be implemented depends on demand). If you are interested I can post a few screen shots. I don't want to post those without a request first though for fear of sounding like I am being too pushy. [-= Warning, marketting-type spiel follows :) =-] It is a backup program: - It can backup any mounted filesystem. - Any partition with a UUID can be specified as a source or destination (assigned by 'blkid', part of the 'e2fsprogs' package). - Files and directories can be selected or excluded from backup using a familiar tree-based file browser. It is an archival program: - Source and destination partitions can be labeled with a descriptive label such as a catalogue number. - Any partition can be search even if the physical medium is offline. - Search results show the descriptive label of the media containing the file or directory making locating the proper medium simple. - Detailed information is stored on every file and directory. - Files copied onto a destination manually or otherwise will be added to the searchable catalogue on the next update. - File and directory information in the database is frequently and automatically updated. It is easy to use: - Many modern distributions like Fedora Core pre-install everything 'TLE-BU' needs to run. - It installs on top of a Linux machine requiring only Perl, PostgresSQL, and standard shell programs. - It is made available to users through any webserver that supports CGI scripts such as Apache. - Once installed, no knowledge of Linux is required and it can be manipulated from any web browser under any operating system. - There is extensive, easy to read, help documentation throughout the program. It is easy to administer: - All warnings and errors are presented in an easy to understand fashion. - It has a build-in log viewer with detailed and easy to read entries. It is secure: - Security is handled by the system (ie: 'iptables') and the web browser; known and tested to be extremely secure. - Simply stopping the web-server can block all access to the program after it has been configured. It is very flexible: - Runs on 2.4.x and 2.6.x linux kernels. - Multiple backup jobs can be created with individual run times. - Multiple sources and destinations can be selected for each backup job. - Backup jobs do not need to be updated when files, directories, sources or destination are added or removed. - It intelligently searches available destinations before assigning each source directory: - It updates previously backed up copies of a source directory when found maximizing efficient use of disk space. - Uses 'rsync' to only copy the parts of a file that have changed when updating previously saved files minimizing disk activity. - Can backup multiple sources to multiple destinations simultaneously regardless of overlap. - Souce and destination partitions will be used in an intelligent order, regardless of what order or how they are connected. - Source and destination partitions to not need to be mounted before use. - Any filesystem Linux knows how to read or write from can be used as a source and any that it can write to can be used as a destination. Data backed up by 'TLE-BU' is easily recoverable: - Files are directly written to the destination partition. No special software in needed to read the backed-up data. - Data can be recovered simply by mounting the storage medium under any operating system that can read it's filesystem. - 'TLE-BU' is NOT required to copy or recover the files! - 'TLE-BU' uses standard hard drives connected via USB, Firewire, IDE, SerialATA, SCSI and/or Fiber-Channel. Flexible capacity and performance: - It can run on anything from a laptop with a single USB drive through to very large servers with dozens of drives. - Destination capacity is limited only by the number and size of the drives, arrays and SANs your system can handle. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 04:11:06 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 00:11:06 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <415238D2.60408-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> <41503C2F.4060907@ca.afilias.info> <41504222.5080304@alteeve.com> <415238D2.60408@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <41524CDA.2010502@alteeve.com> Anton Markov wrote: > Actually, MySQL is licenced under a commercial license _and_ GPL, which > does allow free commercial use. Your license does not. That is > definetely a stopper if you are trying to get community involvement, but > at least your boss gets to make some money, so it's not necessairely a > bad thing. > > As far as the market niche goes, I definetely see the need for a > new-generation user-friendly backup program. Something that is designed > for USB HDs and CD/DVD-R media, not tape. The only GPL alternative I > know is DAR (and KDar), but they still lack the user-friendly element. > (I know about Mondo, but it was too inflexible so it didn't worked as I > wanted). Really? I didn't think that was possible. I will need to look into how MySQL does that and maybe I can get my boss to agree to that same license for our program. I just posted a more detail (kind of markety-ish) list of what the program can do so far. If you are curious that might help show what niche it might fit into a little better. My biggest aim through out was to make it as easy to use (once installed) as possible. I hope I did well, I guess time will tell. It doesn't support CD/DVD-R (as I mentioned in the other reply) though it is something I have already started to plan for. It's simply hasn't reached a high enough point on the priority list. If you and others ask for it though I will give it a higher priority and get it working. Thanks for the reply! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 05:04:19 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 01:04:19 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <41524CDA.2010502-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> <41503C2F.4060907@ca.afilias.info> <41504222.5080304@alteeve.com> <415238D2.60408@truxtar.com> <41524CDA.2010502@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040923050419.E414B4045@cbbrowne.com> > Anton Markov wrote: > > Actually, MySQL is licenced under a commercial license _and_ GPL, which > > does allow free commercial use. Your license does not. That is > > definetely a stopper if you are trying to get community involvement, but > > at least your boss gets to make some money, so it's not necessairely a > > bad thing. > > > > As far as the market niche goes, I definetely see the need for a > > new-generation user-friendly backup program. Something that is designed > > for USB HDs and CD/DVD-R media, not tape. The only GPL alternative I > > know is DAR (and KDar), but they still lack the user-friendly element. > > (I know about Mondo, but it was too inflexible so it didn't worked as I > > wanted). > Really? I didn't think that was possible. I will need to look into how > MySQL does that and maybe I can get my boss to agree to that same > license for our program. Linux, the putative topic of this mailing list, would NEVER have become even as much as a curiosity had it been licensed under similar provisions to MySQL. The "comparable" thing would have been for Linus Torvalds to have announced: "Hey, everyone! I have implemented a new OS kernel for the 80386 architecture. You can try it out; if you use it for anything at all commercial, you'll have to pay me $450 per CPU." If all the people building 'open source' software went by the same sort of standard, well, "hobbyists" could use a Linux distribution for free, but anyone using it for a web server at work would wind up having to send in license fees to each of: - Linus Torvalds (for Linux) - Ulrich Drepper (for GLIBC) - The Apache Foundation (obvious?) - OpenBSD folk (for OpenSSH) - Larry Wall (for Perl) - and a further cast of hundreds... And you'd easily be expected to pay between different levels, thousands of dollars per host. Linux would obviously NOT have taken off; no corporation would allow this kind of liability inside their door, and we'd all be using some flavour of BSD, where they _don't_ play this kind of licensing fee game. The economic "win" that comes out of free software comes from the sharing of benefit of USAGE. It's clear that it is worth developing software and *giving it away* because everyone gets the benefit of not having to pay licensing fees for all the software that they _didn't_ have to pay for. The "dual licensing" game is essentially a bait-and-switch ploy that allows organizations that are producing proprietary, privately-held and privately-developed software to feign involvement in the free software community. They get free advertising out of the exercise, and, if they're lucky, an external set of advocates marketing their products for them. -- "cbbrowne","@","ntlug.org" http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html Where do you want to Tell Microsoft To Go Today? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 14:11:37 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:11:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > writes: > >> I have a 512 MB Lexar JumpDrive Usb Key and I would like to load a >> Live-Cd linux onto it so that I can access my own portable linux >> wherever I go. However, i have found that my computer doesn't seem to >> be so friendly in booting from Usb Drives. The option is available but >> when trying to boot from a version of Damn Small Linux, it doesn't >> seem to work. I can go into more detail, just ask for more >> information. Help would be greatly appreciated! > > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing > another mbr. Debian has an mbr package which contains DOS/Windows compatible > MBRs. This allowed my notebook to boot one USB key (new 256MB Sandisk) that > was previously unbootable. Another key (older 64MB), required installation > of spb2_mbr.sec from spblinux. > > http://www.8ung.at/spblinux/ Fyi my disk on key came with a windows utility to make it bootable. Check if you can make a bootable usb disk on key (windows rescue disk) using that before giving up. It may produce the necessary modified mbr. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 12:29:26 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 08:29:26 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <41524BDA.6090901-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121EA2E@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> <41524BDA.6090901@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040923122926.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 12:06:50AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks for the feedback! Here is a feature list off the top of my > head (I will do a proper one a little closer to releasing it). It is > what I have written so far for the help system though I haven't properly > edited it yet: (for the record it does not yet support CD/DVD-R drives > though that is planned. How soon it will be implemented depends on > demand). If you are interested I can post a few screen shots. I don't > want to post those without a request first though for fear of sounding > like I am being too pushy. > > [-= Warning, marketting-type spiel follows :) =-] > > It is a backup program: > - It can backup any mounted filesystem. > - Any partition with a UUID can be specified as a source or destination > (assigned by 'blkid', part of the 'e2fsprogs' package). > - Files and directories can be selected or excluded from backup using a > familiar tree-based file browser. > > It is an archival program: > - Source and destination partitions can be labeled with a descriptive > label such as a catalogue number. > - Any partition can be search even if the physical medium is offline. > - Search results show the descriptive label of the media containing the > file or directory making locating the proper medium simple. > - Detailed information is stored on every file and directory. > - Files copied onto a destination manually or otherwise will be added to > the searchable catalogue on the next update. > - File and directory information in the database is frequently and > automatically updated. > > It is easy to use: > - Many modern distributions like Fedora Core pre-install everything > 'TLE-BU' needs to run. > - It installs on top of a Linux machine requiring only Perl, > PostgresSQL, and standard shell programs. > - It is made available to users through any webserver that supports CGI > scripts such as Apache. > - Once installed, no knowledge of Linux is required and it can be > manipulated from any web browser under any operating system. > - There is extensive, easy to read, help documentation throughout the > program. > > It is easy to administer: > - All warnings and errors are presented in an easy to understand fashion. > - It has a build-in log viewer with detailed and easy to read entries. > > It is secure: > - Security is handled by the system (ie: 'iptables') and the web > browser; known and tested to be extremely secure. > - Simply stopping the web-server can block all access to the program > after it has been configured. > > It is very flexible: > - Runs on 2.4.x and 2.6.x linux kernels. > - Multiple backup jobs can be created with individual run times. > - Multiple sources and destinations can be selected for each backup job. > - Backup jobs do not need to be updated when files, directories, sources > or destination are added or removed. > - It intelligently searches available destinations before assigning each > source directory: > - It updates previously backed up copies of a source directory when > found maximizing efficient use of disk space. > - Uses 'rsync' to only copy the parts of a file that have changed when > updating previously saved files minimizing disk activity. I suspect you may have misunderstood how rsync works. Rsync only transfers changes when doing work over a network link, by reading the whole file on each end (unless other things like time stamps and size and such match perfectly in which case it assumes they are the same), and calculating checksums to figure out what to transfer over the slow network link. When rsync is run locally to transfer between disks, it simply checks the time stamps and decides if the file has changed or not. It would not make sense for rsync to do it's efficient over network algorith since it involves reading both files entirely, calculating checksums, then writing a new copy of the file on the destination, reading from the original destination and filling in with updates from the other as it goes. When done the new file is renamed over top of the original destination file. Doing this would not save disk activity, on the contrary it would require reading two files and writing one file completely instead of a simple copy which is one read and one write. This is why rsync run locally simply does a copy if it sees that a file is changed. > - Can backup multiple sources to multiple destinations simultaneously > regardless of overlap. > - Souce and destination partitions will be used in an intelligent order, > regardless of what order or how they are connected. > - Source and destination partitions to not need to be mounted before use. > - Any filesystem Linux knows how to read or write from can be used as a > source and any that it can write to can be used as a destination. Does it backup all relevant attributes of the files? Extended atributers (filesystem specific)? ACL? > Data backed up by 'TLE-BU' is easily recoverable: > - Files are directly written to the destination partition. No special > software in needed to read the backed-up data. > - Data can be recovered simply by mounting the storage medium under any > operating system that can read it's filesystem. > - 'TLE-BU' is NOT required to copy or recover the files! > - 'TLE-BU' uses standard hard drives connected via USB, Firewire, IDE, > SerialATA, SCSI and/or Fiber-Channel. > > Flexible capacity and performance: > - It can run on anything from a laptop with a single USB drive through > to very large servers with dozens of drives. > - Destination capacity is limited only by the number and size of the > drives, arrays and SANs your system can handle. Well it sounds decent. I use tob (tape oriented backup) with afio archives, splitting into 1GB pieces that I then burn to DVD (4 pieces per DVD). I archive acl info with getfact -R and dump to a file and burn that seperately. Restores simply require a linux system installed with fielsystem, and afio available. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 13:13:44 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:13:44 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria Message-ID: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> I hope this doesn't generate any kind of "my distribution can beat up your distribution" argument, but I'm interested in knowing what selection criteria people used when deciding to put Linux on a system. In part I wonder whether there's any agreement that requirement X leads to solution Y, and in part I'd like to examine whether a new Linux user should be steered one way or another depending on what they need to get out of it. (If you've had reasons to put different distributions on different systems, that's really interesting!) For example, a couple of years ago when I decided to add a Linux system to my home collection it went this way: 1) Since the only net access the system would have would be for me to dial out with one of my Macs and then use that as a gateway, I was willing to pay for a comprehensive set of CDs. 2) Among the ones that were on the shelves in stores I knew, I selected the one with the most up-to-date kernel and developer tools. On that day, the winner was SuSE 8.1 Pro. (OTOH, about 8 years ago, my approach where I worked was to download whatever minimal system I could find, because the only requirement was to match the zero dollars in the software budget.) I suspect others have used more analysis and broader requirements. (?) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 13:51:51 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 09:51:51 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> Message-ID: <4152D4F7.5000407@detachednetworks.ca> Phillip Mills wrote: > I hope this doesn't generate any kind of "my distribution can beat up > your distribution" argument, but I'm interested in knowing what > selection criteria people used when deciding to put Linux on a > system. In part I wonder whether there's any agreement that > requirement X leads to solution Y, and in part I'd like to examine > whether a new Linux user should be steered one way or another > depending on what they need to get out of it. > > (If you've had reasons to put different distributions on different > systems, that's really interesting!) > > For example, a couple of years ago when I decided to add a Linux > system to my home collection it went this way: > 1) Since the only net access the system would have would be for me to > dial out with one of my Macs and then use that as a gateway, I was > willing to pay for a comprehensive set of CDs. > 2) Among the ones that were on the shelves in stores I knew, I > selected the one with the most up-to-date kernel and developer tools. > On that day, the winner was SuSE 8.1 Pro. > > (OTOH, about 8 years ago, my approach where I worked was to download > whatever minimal system I could find, because the only requirement was > to match the zero dollars in the software budget.) > > I suspect others have used more analysis and broader requirements. (?) > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I have found that the varius distros have advantages & disadvantages in varius situations. My selections vary as follows: Debian - server, desktop, ultra-lean install Suse 9.1 - server, desktop, new user Mandrake 10 - new user WBEL3 - server Fedora core 1 - server Fedora core 2 - Use the cd's as coasters. ;) Astaro - Firewall Smoothwall -Firewall Knoppix 3.6/3.7 HD Install - used for system testing or odd hardware combinations due to the excellent hardware detection Just my humble opinion. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 14:02:03 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:02:03 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> Message-ID: <4152D75B.2030905@sympatico.ca> Mine were very simple: * does it support recent versions of libraries, so I can run current software? * can it be easily upgraded through incremental steps? Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 14:05:49 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:05:49 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <20040923122926.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121EA2E@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> <41524BDA.6090901@alteeve.com> <20040923122926.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <4152D83D.3000401@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I suspect you may have misunderstood how rsync works. Rsync only > transfers changes when doing work over a network link, by reading the > whole file on each end (unless other things like time stamps and size > and such match perfectly in which case it assumes they are the same), > and calculating checksums to figure out what to transfer over the slow > network link. When rsync is run locally to transfer between disks, it > simply checks the time stamps and decides if the file has changed or > not. It would not make sense for rsync to do it's efficient over > network algorith since it involves reading both files entirely, > calculating checksums, then writing a new copy of the file on the > destination, reading from the original destination and filling in with > updates from the other as it goes. When done the new file is renamed > over top of the original destination file. Doing this would not save > disk activity, on the contrary it would require reading two files and > writing one file completely instead of a simple copy which is one read > and one write. This is why rsync run locally simply does a copy if it > sees that a file is changed. There is a switch for rsync that tells it to do delta copies on local file systems. What you say though is quite valid and I will need to run performance tests later to see which is actually more efficient. I enabled the switch by default (you can tweak how rsync runs in the config file) thinking about some files that where several gigs in size. > Does it backup all relevant attributes of the files? Extended > atributers (filesystem specific)? ACL? I haven't recorded ACL (to make sure I understand, you are talking about MS NTFS extended data, right?) however now that you mentioned that I can get that info using 'getfact -R' I should be able to add that easily enough. Making sure that I get everything relevant will be part of the beta-testing process. At this point I record owner, group, permissions, last modified date and time, size, etc... > Well it sounds decent. > > I use tob (tape oriented backup) with afio archives, splitting into 1GB > pieces that I then burn to DVD (4 pieces per DVD). I archive acl info > with getfact -R and dump to a file and burn that seperately. > > Restores simply require a linux system installed with fielsystem, and > afio available. > > Lennart Sorensen Thanks for your input! I am finding it a lot harder to get help and feedback then I expected. I suppose I should have expected that given my boss' desire for a non-GPL license. I had hope making it free to home users was enough though I have to admit if I was on the other side of this I may well feel the same as others here seem to feel. Alas... Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 14:16:27 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:16:27 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <4151CA30.10803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> Wednesday, September 22, 2004, 2:53:36 PM, you wrote: JK> Matt Cahill wrote: >> Wednesday, September 22, 2004, 12:10:13 PM, you wrote: >> >> JK> I'm on Rogers, with the SB5100 and it works fine. Can you connect to >> JK> the modem status page at http://192.168.100.1? Also, I believe that if >> JK> you press the standby switch (the one on the top of the modem, also make >> JK> sure that the modem is not currently in standby), the modem will act as >> JK> a dhcp server. Also, that modem web page contains info, that may help >> JK> in resolving your problem. >> >> >> James, >> >> Good points. I'll check it out when I get home. What kinda p's me >> is that, although the technician left the box & cables that came w/ >> the modem, there was no instruction booklet. Thus, the 'standby >> switch' has only been revealed to me now :) >> >> Regarding the modem status page, I'm assuming that any browser will >> do? JK> Yes, I use Konqueror. Maybe you should ask Rogers for a manual etc. James, Still no luck. I tried browsing to http://192.168.100.1, but I might as well have been browsing any other website - no connection. More info: I'm using dhcp/dhcp-client. Would switching to dhcpd make any difference (probably not, but I'm starting to run out of options here)? This is the error I get when running '/sbin/dhcp eth0' (or 'networking restart'): #----- DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 6 " "interval 15 "etc..." No DHCPOFFERS received No working leases in persistent database. #----- The PC Activity light on the modem flickers when the computer tries to access the DHCP server, but it never remains solid (I take it that yellow is the right colour?). Lastly, when I re-installed a different version of dhcp, I noticed that there were passive errors (as opposed to show-stoppers) regarding my locale settings...apparently it can't find some of them. Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but I thought I'd put it out there. Anyhoo, if anyone can suggest anything, I'm all ears. My next attempt will be to bring home a bootable Linux CD (Knoppix or Mandrake Move) and see whether I can connect via that route (which would prove/rule-out a configuration problem with Libranet). Cheers, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 14:37:16 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:37:16 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> Message-ID: <20040923143716.GA408@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 09:13:44AM -0400, Phillip Mills wrote: > I hope this doesn't generate any kind of "my distribution can beat up > your distribution" argument, but I'm interested in knowing what > selection criteria people used when deciding to put Linux on a system. > In part I wonder whether there's any agreement that requirement X leads > to solution Y, and in part I'd like to examine whether a new Linux user > should be steered one way or another depending on what they need to get > out of it. > > (If you've had reasons to put different distributions on different > systems, that's really interesting!) Slackware in all my machines, because - it's the only one which can be installed using shell script. - it's small (2GB full install), and library dependency is none issue. - all files are where you expect them to be - rc.* are BSD style which is easier to maintain - it doesn't overwrite any of my changes (like Redhat) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:03:56 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:03:56 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <4152D4F7.5000407-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> <4152D4F7.5000407@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <1095951834.3724.108.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 09:51, Jason Shein wrote: > Debian - server, desktop, ultra-lean install > Suse 9.1 - server, desktop, new user > Mandrake 10 - new user > WBEL3 - server > Fedora core 1 - server > Fedora core 2 - Use the cd's as coasters. ;) > Astaro - Firewall > Smoothwall -Firewall > Knoppix 3.6/3.7 HD Install - used for system testing or odd hardware > combinations due to the excellent hardware detection Only 2 I could add to that list are: Dyne::Bolic - creating, editing, and streaming media Minix - programmers technical introduction to linux* (Book + OS) (* It's not linux, but makes a good start for programmers. Did for me anyway; the transition from Windows through Minix to Linux didn't take terribly long.) -Scott. PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:16:05 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:16:05 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <41524CDA.2010502-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> <41503C2F.4060907@ca.afilias.info> <41504222.5080304@alteeve.com> <415238D2.60408@truxtar.com> <41524CDA.2010502@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040923151605.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 12:11:06AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Really? I didn't think that was possible. I will need to look into how > MySQL does that and maybe I can get my boss to agree to that same > license for our program. I just posted a more detail (kind of > markety-ish) list of what the program can do so far. If you are curious > that might help show what niche it might fit into a little better. My > biggest aim through out was to make it as easy to use (once installed) > as possible. I hope I did well, I guess time will tell. > > It doesn't support CD/DVD-R (as I mentioned in the other reply) though > it is something I have already started to plan for. It's simply hasn't > reached a high enough point on the priority list. If you and others ask > for it though I will give it a higher priority and get it working. Well I know DVD backup was key to our backups. I consider portable HDs much too fragile for backups. Adding dvd support using shell scripts to tob was not too hard to do. backups are done with oen script, and another does diff backups daily, and if a restore is ever needed tob has an easy way to ask for files matching a regex (anythhing grep supports) and restores it to wherever you ask. It might not be as easy for the user to configure or add, but all it has for deciding what to backup is a list of directories to backup and a list of exludes. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:19:40 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:19:40 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <4152D83D.3000401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC5121EA2E@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> <41524BDA.6090901@alteeve.com> <20040923122926.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <4152D83D.3000401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040923151940.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 10:05:49AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > There is a switch for rsync that tells it to do delta copies on local > file systems. What you say though is quite valid and I will need to run > performance tests later to see which is actually more efficient. I > enabled the switch by default (you can tweak how rsync runs in the > config file) thinking about some files that where several gigs in size. Well unless the file change is only a replacement of contents (no insert or delete in length) you could update just the changed part, although you still have to read both files to find the changes, which will cause twice the reading, and still some writing. In case of inserts/deletes, at least the file part after the first change has to be completely rewritten, so it should still cause extra work on top of a simple copy. > >Does it backup all relevant attributes of the files? Extended > >atributers (filesystem specific)? ACL? > > I haven't recorded ACL (to make sure I understand, you are talking about > MS NTFS extended data, right?) however now that you mentioned that I can > get that info using 'getfact -R' I should be able to add that easily > enough. Making sure that I get everything relevant will be part of the > beta-testing process. At this point I record owner, group, permissions, > last modified date and time, size, etc... No ACL as in posix ACL. Quite useful for finer grain control than one owner and one group per file. Also makes samba way nicer to work with since you can control access per file/dir rather than per share. > Thanks for your input! I am finding it a lot harder to get help and > feedback then I expected. I suppose I should have expected that given my > boss' desire for a non-GPL license. I had hope making it free to home > users was enough though I have to admit if I was on the other side of > this I may well feel the same as others here seem to feel. Alas... I think too many people just don't do backups, or they do them ad-hoc by backing up a chunk of files when they think of it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:28:34 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:28:34 -0400 Subject: Going about beta-testing a program... advice? In-Reply-To: <20040923050419.E414B4045-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <414F4C3B.9010501@alteeve.com> <41503C2F.4060907@ca.afilias.info> <41504222.5080304@alteeve.com> <415238D2.60408@truxtar.com> <41524CDA.2010502@alteeve.com> <20040923050419.E414B4045@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20040923152834.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 01:04:19AM -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > Linux, the putative topic of this mailing list, would NEVER have become > even as much as a curiosity had it been licensed under similar > provisions to MySQL. > > The "comparable" thing would have been for Linus Torvalds to have > announced: > > "Hey, everyone! I have implemented a new OS kernel for the 80386 > architecture. You can try it out; if you use it for anything at all > commercial, you'll have to pay me $450 per CPU." > > If all the people building 'open source' software went by the same sort > of standard, well, "hobbyists" could use a Linux distribution for free, > but anyone using it for a web server at work would wind up having to > send in license fees to each of: > > - Linus Torvalds (for Linux) > - Ulrich Drepper (for GLIBC) > - The Apache Foundation (obvious?) > - OpenBSD folk (for OpenSSH) > - Larry Wall (for Perl) > - and a further cast of hundreds... > > And you'd easily be expected to pay between different levels, thousands > of dollars per host. > > Linux would obviously NOT have taken off; no corporation would allow > this kind of liability inside their door, and we'd all be using some > flavour of BSD, where they _don't_ play this kind of licensing fee game. > > The economic "win" that comes out of free software comes from the > sharing of benefit of USAGE. > > It's clear that it is worth developing software and *giving it away* > because everyone gets the benefit of not having to pay licensing fees > for all the software that they _didn't_ have to pay for. > > The "dual licensing" game is essentially a bait-and-switch ploy that > allows organizations that are producing proprietary, privately-held and > privately-developed software to feign involvement in the free software > community. > > They get free advertising out of the exercise, and, if they're lucky, an > external set of advocates marketing their products for them. I think the companies that best work with open source software, especially the free (in both ways) open source stuff, tend to be those that make money selling a service, such as web storage of images, some entertainment, processing information for others, etc. Comapnies that have the main purpose of developing and selling software are just not going to like it anywhere near as much. On the other hand if you sell the service of customzing and configuring the software to the end users specifications for them, then open source could work just fine, as long as you can sell enough customization service to stay in business, and there isn't someone else doing a better job customizing your open source software for less. IBM seems to have always been in the business of selling a solution to people for some cost. How it was done didn't matter, and the amount of tweaking and configuration involved in getting the system to do the right thing was what mattered. It doesn't matter to IBM that much if they use their own OS/2, MVS, or OS/400 or Linux to get the job done. By using Linux they get lots more qualified people to help out with many of the design problems of an OS, while paying some of their own employees to implemnt some stuff that isn't as likely to be done by hobyists (such as SAN, LVM, AFS, etc). By doing the main work on some of the small but tricky (mainly due to expensive hardware requried for testing), and then giving that away to others to use and improve on, they make their portfolia of available solutions to customer problems that much bigger, and they may be able to solve a customers problem with less work that it would have taken to do it all tehmselves, which then means they can either do it for less than a competitor, or they can make a bigger margin on the job or perhaps both. It probably also makes IBM more popular with the small guys in some ways. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:29:53 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:29:53 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <1747850882.20040923101627-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040923152953.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 10:16:27AM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > Still no luck. I tried browsing to http://192.168.100.1, but I might > as well have been browsing any other website - no connection. > > More info: I'm using dhcp/dhcp-client. Would switching to dhcpd > make any difference (probably not, but I'm starting to run out of > options here)? > > This is the error I get when running '/sbin/dhcp eth0' (or 'networking > restart'): > > #----- > > DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 6 > " "interval 15 > "etc..." > > No DHCPOFFERS received > > No working leases in persistent database. > > #----- > > > The PC Activity light on the modem flickers when the computer tries > to access the DHCP server, but it never remains solid > (I take it that yellow is the right colour?). > > Lastly, when I re-installed a different version of dhcp, I noticed > that there were passive errors (as opposed to show-stoppers) > regarding my locale settings...apparently it can't find some of them. > Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but I thought I'd > put it out there. > > Anyhoo, if anyone can suggest anything, I'm all ears. My next > attempt will be to bring home a bootable Linux CD (Knoppix or > Mandrake Move) and see whether I can connect via that route (which > would prove/rule-out a configuration problem with Libranet). Have you checked that you don't have a firewall blocking port 67/68 used by dhcp? Try running tcpdump on the interface looking for port 67 and 68 traffic. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:45:12 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:45:12 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> Message-ID: <20040923154512.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 09:13:44AM -0400, Phillip Mills wrote: > I hope this doesn't generate any kind of "my distribution can beat up > your distribution" argument, but I'm interested in knowing what > selection criteria people used when deciding to put Linux on a system. > In part I wonder whether there's any agreement that requirement X leads > to solution Y, and in part I'd like to examine whether a new Linux user > should be steered one way or another depending on what they need to get > out of it. > > (If you've had reasons to put different distributions on different > systems, that's really interesting!) > > For example, a couple of years ago when I decided to add a Linux system > to my home collection it went this way: > 1) Since the only net access the system would have would be for me to > dial out with one of my Macs and then use that as a gateway, I was > willing to pay for a comprehensive set of CDs. > 2) Among the ones that were on the shelves in stores I knew, I selected > the one with the most up-to-date kernel and developer tools. > On that day, the winner was SuSE 8.1 Pro. > > (OTOH, about 8 years ago, my approach where I worked was to download > whatever minimal system I could find, because the only requirement was > to match the zero dollars in the software budget.) > > I suspect others have used more analysis and broader requirements. (?) Well my first Linux distribution was the one I found in a usenet archive at CRS Online (BBS from the early 90s in Toronto), where I went: "Neat, a free unix clone for my PC. let me try that." and proceeded to download one floppy per day for 2 weeks until I had enough to start the install. That was SLS 1.03. When I started university in fall of 94, part way through the term, the computer science club got in a set of Linus CDs which they were selling for $10, so I got one. It had slackware 2.3 (I think), redhat 2.0, yggdrasil, and a number of tiney distributions. The redhat one mentioned this new packagae management tool called RPM and how much simpler it made adding and removing packages and dealing with dependancies, so I thought that would be worth trying. I also tried slackware, but it had the same stupid installer SLS had used, which while it worked, left a lot to be desired in terms of not making me do all the repetive work that could be done for me. :) Later I picked up redhat 4 CD powertools sets at the computer book store close to the university, and did that up to about 5.2 for most of the versions and it wasn't too bad. I occationally tried a few other distributions if I got a hold of them, but most were broken in some way, or just seemed to clumsy or too different from what I was getting used to with redhat. However when I was runnign 6.0 on a workterm, I started getting rather annoyed at frequent crashes in bind, trouble with the mail server, and various other things that just weren't so reliable. I found bugs in packages and build scripts, sent a few bug reports (I even knew someone working at redhat at the time) and it seemed they weren't very interested in fixing things until the next release in 6 months, if ever. I ad already played with debian 2.0 at the time, which looked promising but the install was a disaster zone, and nearly imposible to complete successfully (the dependancy tracking worked, but the tools seemed a bit braindead about how to install things in the right order to solve those dependancies). With the annoyances of redhat 6.0, I downloaded and installed 2.1 on my own system before heading back to university for my last year, upgraded it to unstable, and kept using that at university while 2.2 was finalized. 2.1 installed much better than 2.0, and the upgrade to unstable was simple and just worked. I kept reading the docs and learning lots about how the package system was working, started figuring out the policy documentation and the philosophy debian used, which fit very well with how I thought computer systems should be setup and run in general (I hate sloppy things, and things that could be better, but aren't made so, and doing the same thing twice when it could be scripted, and hence having multiple people doing something when one person could do it better once and for all, like configuring and compiling a program.) So now I run Debian 3.1 (or what will soon be 3.1) on most machines, and unstable on my home desktop (because I like helping finding the bugs and solving them), and find it very enjoyable. I would not recomend it to someone that doesn't have internet access since it really is much simpler to use when you can just install something over the internet. I did however run with a 14.4 modem for quite a while and did updates overnight some years ago, and even did it with a 56k less tahn a year ago, and could easily keep up with the changes in unstable for the packages I have installed. It is nicer with DSL or cable of course, but you can do without it as long as you don't mind connecting to the internet and starting a package download every few days. If you run the stable release, updates for security and bugs are very infrequent and not really a problem for dialup users. Well that's how I have picked my distribution. Other people have different needs and hence different opinions. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:47:25 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:47:25 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <1095951834.3724.108.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> <4152D4F7.5000407@detachednetworks.ca> <1095951834.3724.108.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040923154725.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 11:03:56AM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Only 2 I could add to that list are: > > Dyne::Bolic - creating, editing, and streaming media > Minix - programmers technical introduction to linux* (Book + OS) > > (* It's not linux, but makes a good start for programmers. Did for me > anyway; the transition from Windows through Minix to Linux didn't take > terribly long.) A transition from AmigaOS to QNX to DOS to Linux and then windows on the other hand has never made me thing MS could write an OS that was particularly good, although XP plays games OK. :) The games that are out for linux seem to run very well though, so maybe at some time Windows will have no use at all. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:48:35 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:48:35 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <4152D75B.2030905-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> <4152D75B.2030905@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040923154835.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 10:02:03AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Mine were very simple: > > * does it support recent versions of libraries, so I can run current > software? > * can it be easily upgraded through incremental steps? Right, no making me shutdown my system to upgrade, even to a new release of the OS, the way redhat upgrades used to work. Shutdown of individual services should be kept to a minimum during upgrades too. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 15:51:43 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 11:51:43 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <20040923152953.GO8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <20040923152953.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1908817947.20040923115143@rogers.com> Thursday, September 23, 2004, 11:29:53 AM, you wrote: LS> Have you checked that you don't have a firewall blocking port 67/68 used LS> by dhcp? LS> Try running tcpdump on the interface looking for port 67 and 68 traffic. Lennart, Good point. I will disable the firewall (shorewall) and see if this makes a difference. It would seem odd that - with the old modem - I experienced (sometimes intermittently) reliable connectivity with the same firewall settings. However, I am by no means adept in things technical, so I will gladly try this. Thank you, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 16:57:33 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 23 Sep 2004 12:57:33 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: "Peter L. Peres" writes: > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > > > writes: > > > >> I have a 512 MB Lexar JumpDrive Usb Key and I would like to load a > >> Live-Cd linux onto it so that I can access my own portable linux > >> wherever I go. However, i have found that my computer doesn't seem to > >> be so friendly in booting from Usb Drives. The option is available but > >> when trying to boot from a version of Damn Small Linux, it doesn't > >> seem to work. I can go into more detail, just ask for more > >> information. Help would be greatly appreciated! > > > > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot > > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will > > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to > > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing > > another mbr. Debian has an mbr package which contains DOS/Windows compatible > > MBRs. This allowed my notebook to boot one USB key (new 256MB Sandisk) that > > was previously unbootable. Another key (older 64MB), required installation > > of spb2_mbr.sec from spblinux. > > > > http://www.8ung.at/spblinux/ > > Fyi my disk on key came with a windows utility to make it bootable. Check if > you can make a bootable usb disk on key (windows rescue disk) using that > before giving up. It may produce the necessary modified mbr. Didn't work for me but spblinux did. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 18:51:00 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:51:00 -0400 Subject: LF near enterprise level linux hardware vendors and resources Message-ID: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> Anyone in the list have experience in System Integration right from start to implementation of a Linux based small datacenter. budget 20k to 50k. (maybe 100k) Q1 I am looking for URLs and vendors of near enterprise level hardware that works with Linux. Q2 Any vendors in the GTA that work with Linux and Enterprise level hardware? Stuff like... T1-T3,OC, Sonet, FibreChannel, SCSI-RAIDs, SANs, 10kVA UPS's...etc. There must be a webpage out there somewheres..... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 20:57:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 16:57:03 -0400 Subject: LF near enterprise level linux hardware vendors and resources In-Reply-To: <41531B14.2030808-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20040923205703.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 02:51:00PM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > Anyone in the list have experience in System Integration right from > start to implementation of a > Linux based small datacenter. budget 20k to 50k. (maybe 100k) > > Q1 I am looking for URLs and vendors of near enterprise level hardware > that works with Linux. > Q2 Any vendors in the GTA that work with Linux and Enterprise level > hardware? > > Stuff like... > T1-T3,OC, Sonet, FibreChannel, SCSI-RAIDs, SANs, 10kVA UPS's...etc. > > There must be a webpage out there somewheres..... Now sure about a dealer, but you won't go far with fibre channel with a budget like that. Interface cards alone for fibre channel are around $2000 each as far as I know, and I have no idea what switches cost. And isn't T1 links about $1000/month? How large a setup (disk space, reliability, processing power, bandwidth, etc) is this supposed to be? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 23 22:16:19 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:16:19 -0400 Subject: LF near enterprise level linux hardware vendors and resources In-Reply-To: <41531B14.2030808-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20040923221619.GA29860@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 02:51:00PM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > Anyone in the list have experience in System Integration right from > start to implementation of a > Linux based small datacenter. budget 20k to 50k. (maybe 100k) > > Q1 I am looking for URLs and vendors of near enterprise level hardware > that works with Linux. > Q2 Any vendors in the GTA that work with Linux and Enterprise level > hardware? > > Stuff like... > T1-T3,OC, Sonet, FibreChannel, SCSI-RAIDs, SANs, 10kVA UPS's...etc. > > There must be a webpage out there somewheres..... I don't think hardware is main problem. Just choose commodity Intel/PC hardware at retail, and don't go the cheap route. The type of application they need is more of issue, I would think. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 00:08:41 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 20:08:41 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: References: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8eb589e040923170828fa3df3@mail.gmail.com> it modified my mbr but how would I use that newly modified mbr to my advantage? On 23 Sep 2004 12:57:33 -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > "Peter L. Peres" writes: > > > On Wed, 22 Sep 2004, Tim Writer wrote: > > > > > writes: > > > > > >> I have a 512 MB Lexar JumpDrive Usb Key and I would like to load a > > >> Live-Cd linux onto it so that I can access my own portable linux > > >> wherever I go. However, i have found that my computer doesn't seem to > > >> be so friendly in booting from Usb Drives. The option is available but > > >> when trying to boot from a version of Damn Small Linux, it doesn't > > >> seem to work. I can go into more detail, just ask for more > > >> information. Help would be greatly appreciated! > > > > > > I have found that a _lot_ of systems (even some very new ones) won't boot > > > from USB, even if the BIOS has such an option. In addition, some boards will > > > boot other USB devices (floppy, CD-ROM, etc.) but not a key. This seems to > > > be a geometry issue which can sometimes be worked around by installing > > > another mbr. Debian has an mbr package which contains DOS/Windows compatible > > > MBRs. This allowed my notebook to boot one USB key (new 256MB Sandisk) that > > > was previously unbootable. Another key (older 64MB), required installation > > > of spb2_mbr.sec from spblinux. > > > > > > http://www.8ung.at/spblinux/ > > > > Fyi my disk on key came with a windows utility to make it bootable. Check if > > you can make a bootable usb disk on key (windows rescue disk) using that > > before giving up. It may produce the necessary modified mbr. > > Didn't work for me but spblinux did. > > > > -- > tim writer starnix inc. > 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada > http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 01:00:19 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:00:19 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <1747850882.20040923101627-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> Message-ID: <415371A3.8040107@rogers.com> Matt Cahill wrote: > Wednesday, September 22, 2004, 2:53:36 PM, you wrote: > > JK> Matt Cahill wrote: > >>>Wednesday, September 22, 2004, 12:10:13 PM, you wrote: >>> >>>JK> I'm on Rogers, with the SB5100 and it works fine. Can you connect to >>>JK> the modem status page at http://192.168.100.1? Also, I believe that if >>>JK> you press the standby switch (the one on the top of the modem, also make >>>JK> sure that the modem is not currently in standby), the modem will act as >>>JK> a dhcp server. Also, that modem web page contains info, that may help >>>JK> in resolving your problem. >>> >>> >>> James, >>> >>> Good points. I'll check it out when I get home. What kinda p's me >>> is that, although the technician left the box & cables that came w/ >>> the modem, there was no instruction booklet. Thus, the 'standby >>> switch' has only been revealed to me now :) >>> >>> Regarding the modem status page, I'm assuming that any browser will >>> do? > > > JK> Yes, I use Konqueror. Maybe you should ask Rogers for a manual etc. > > > > James, > > Still no luck. I tried browsing to http://192.168.100.1, but I might > as well have been browsing any other website - no connection. > > More info: I'm using dhcp/dhcp-client. Would switching to dhcpd > make any difference (probably not, but I'm starting to run out of > options here)? You might try dhcpd or even a static address. > > This is the error I get when running '/sbin/dhcp eth0' (or 'networking > restart'): > > #----- > > DHCPDISCOVER on eth0 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 6 > " "interval 15 > "etc..." > > No DHCPOFFERS received > > No working leases in persistent database. Is there anyway you can hook up a hub and another computer, running ethereal? If so, you could see what's happening on the wire. > > #----- > > > The PC Activity light on the modem flickers when the computer tries > to access the DHCP server, but it never remains solid > (I take it that yellow is the right colour?). Mine's on most of the time, but flickers. However that flicker could be due to traffic in either direction. > > Lastly, when I re-installed a different version of dhcp, I noticed > that there were passive errors (as opposed to show-stoppers) > regarding my locale settings...apparently it can't find some of them. > Not sure if this has anything to do with anything, but I thought I'd > put it out there. > > Anyhoo, if anyone can suggest anything, I'm all ears. My next > attempt will be to bring home a bootable Linux CD (Knoppix or > Mandrake Move) and see whether I can connect via that route (which > would prove/rule-out a configuration problem with Libranet). Can you try another computer, that's running Windows? If that fails too, there's no way Rogers can use their "we don't support Linux" excuse. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 01:09:21 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:09:21 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> Message-ID: <415373C1.8090703@rogers.com> Phillip Mills wrote: > I hope this doesn't generate any kind of "my distribution can beat up > your distribution" argument, but I'm interested in knowing what > selection criteria people used when deciding to put Linux on a system. > In part I wonder whether there's any agreement that requirement X leads > to solution Y, and in part I'd like to examine whether a new Linux user > should be steered one way or another depending on what they need to get > out of it. > > (If you've had reasons to put different distributions on different > systems, that's really interesting!) > > For example, a couple of years ago when I decided to add a Linux system > to my home collection it went this way: > 1) Since the only net access the system would have would be for me to > dial out with one of my Macs and then use that as a gateway, I was > willing to pay for a comprehensive set of CDs. > 2) Among the ones that were on the shelves in stores I knew, I selected > the one with the most up-to-date kernel and developer tools. > On that day, the winner was SuSE 8.1 Pro. > > (OTOH, about 8 years ago, my approach where I worked was to download > whatever minimal system I could find, because the only requirement was > to match the zero dollars in the software budget.) > > I suspect others have used more analysis and broader requirements. (?) Long before I ever tried "DOS", I was using VAX/VMS at work, so I knew what a real OS could do. So even though I was using DOS for a few years, I was looking for something better. In 1992, I switched to OS/2 and used it for over 10 years. I also started hearing about Linux a few years back and started buying some books etc. I then downloaded a set of Slackware floppies and ran it on an experimental system. I then tried Mandrake on a ThinkPad at work and a bit after that, Red Hat. When Red Hat decided to leave the desktop market, I switched to SuSE. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 02:03:09 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:03:09 -0400 Subject: LF near enterprise level linux hardware vendors and resources In-Reply-To: <41531B14.2030808-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> Message-ID: <4153805D.80201@rogers.com> > Anyone in the list have experience in System Integration right from > start to implementation of a Linux based small datacenter. budget > 20k to 50k. (maybe 100k) > Q1 I am looking for URLs and vendors of near enterprise level hardware > that works with Linux. > Q2 Any vendors in the GTA that work with Linux and Enterprise level > hardware? Stuff like... > T1-T3,OC, Sonet, FibreChannel, SCSI-RAIDs, SANs, 10kVA UPS's...etc. You are not going to get anywhere useful, with those technologies, for the budget you have indicated. Unless the equipment is stolen. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 02:29:53 2004 From: lists-JN5fZfbfKAtWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Julian C. Dunn - Lists) Date: Thu, 23 Sep 2004 22:29:53 -0400 Subject: TCCP: personal server co-location in Toronto Message-ID: <1095992993.31769.79.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Hello TLUGgers, Does anyone need to co-locate a server, either for themselves or a small business? Recently I started a non-profit server co-location service in Toronto called the Toronto Community Co-Location Project. TCCP is part of a global movement bringing low-cost co-location services to individuals, non-profits, and small businesses, and is modelled upon the (immensely successful and now full) California Community Co-Location Project at www.communitycolo.net TCCP is an entirely volunteer-run operation, but client servers are professionally co-located at Peer 1 Network in downtown Toronto. Prices start at $100/mo to co-locate a 1U machine with a 128Kbps bandwidth commitment (95th). 100% of revenues go back into the operation. If anyone's interested in putting a box in, you might want to check us out. We're not a commercial organization; we're doing this for the love of it and because we think there is a niche to be filled. Feel free to check out our website: http://tccp.dreaming.org/ I'm also happy to answer any questions personally. - Julian -- -- Julian C. Dunn -- Director of Operations -- The Dreaming Electronic Community Network, Inc. -- Support e-mail: support-50k5kYnWtIlg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org -- WWW: http://www.dreaming.org/ -- Tel: +1-(888)-762-6164 x86 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 12:09:32 2004 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:09:32 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? Message-ID: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> The IS department of the company I work for is looking into revamping our ancient network setup. They would like to put each department on its own IP network (all private addresses). The department networks would each be routed to a backbone network containing servers. The department networks would be 100MB ethernet and the backbone would be 1GB ethernet. There would also have to be some restricted access from some deparment networks to others. Rather than using individual routers for each network link, I've suggested using a single box, with the required 5 to 8 ethernet interfaces, to do all the routing and firewalling. I'm thinking that this could be a linux based PC with one or two quad port ethernet adapters. The ethernet adapters would only have to be 100MB if the motherboard had a Gigabit interface. I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the FireHOL iptables generator script, since my experience with both has been quite positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy to set up and maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: ). We would like to have all workstations configured from a DHCP server (plus whatever Windows domain configuration is required) on the backbone. This means the router whould have to be a DHCP relay agent (and more?). Note that a separate router/firewall (possibly based on the same software) would link the backbone servers to the real internet as required. So, does this look to be possible and is it a good idea, or am I crazy for suggesting it? Has anyone attempted anything similar? Any suggestions on what hardware would be required? There seems to be a few sources of quad and 6 port ethernet adapters, and I've read that at least Intel and D-Link ones have Linux drivers. Thanks for the feedback, Scott Allen -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 13:07:42 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 09:07:42 -0400 Subject: No Buck Rogers Budget In-Reply-To: <4153805D.80201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> <4153805D.80201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41541C1E.8080106@knet.ca> okay. i understand. a 10kVA UPS can be 100K itself. Fine...but the budget is around 20k to 50k..you should be able to get some decent stuff for that. Maybe not the Buck Rogers stuff, but maybe some Space 1999 hw. (remember that show?) Byron L. Sonne wrote: >> Anyone in the list have experience in System Integration right from >> start to implementation of a Linux based small datacenter. budget >> 20k to 50k. (maybe 100k) >> Q1 I am looking for URLs and vendors of near enterprise level >> hardware that works with Linux. >> Q2 Any vendors in the GTA that work with Linux and Enterprise level >> hardware? Stuff like... >> T1-T3,OC, Sonet, FibreChannel, SCSI-RAIDs, SANs, 10kVA UPS's...etc. > > > You are not going to get anywhere useful, with those technologies, for > the budget you have indicated. Unless the equipment is stolen. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 13:51:31 2004 From: bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Bruce Cowper) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:51:31 +0100 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: Scott, One issue that springs to mind is that this machine will be a single point of failure for the whole network. You would also be wise to look at your hardware as well to see if you can implement redundancy. Even mirrored drives can make the world of difference in the event of a problem. The overall idea is sound and has been used many times. I would simply advise that whatever flavour of OS you use, that you fully explore the implications this type of scenario may have to your network in terms of traffic, reliability and redundancy. Thanks Bruce -----Original Message----- From: Scott Allen To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:09:32 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Linux based n-way router? > > The IS department of the company I work for is looking into revamping > our ancient network setup. They would like to put each department on > its own IP network (all private addresses). The department networks > would each be routed to a backbone network containing servers. The > department networks would be 100MB ethernet and the backbone would be > 1GB ethernet. There would also have to be some restricted access from > some deparment networks to others. > > Rather than using individual routers for each network link, I've > suggested using a single box, with the required 5 to 8 ethernet > interfaces, to do all the routing and firewalling. I'm thinking that > this could be a linux based PC with one or two quad port ethernet > adapters. The ethernet adapters would only have to be 100MB if the > motherboard had a Gigabit interface. > > I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the FireHOL iptables > generator script, since my experience with both has been quite > positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy to set up and > maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: > ). > > We would like to have all workstations configured from a DHCP server > (plus whatever Windows domain configuration is required) on the > backbone. This means the router whould have to be a DHCP relay agent > (and more?). > > Note that a separate router/firewall (possibly based on the same > software) would link the backbone servers to the real internet as > required. > > So, does this look to be possible and is it a good idea, or am I > crazy for > suggesting it? > > Has anyone attempted anything similar? > > Any suggestions on what hardware would be required? There seems to be > a few sources of quad and 6 port ethernet adapters, and I've read > that at least Intel and D-Link ones have Linux drivers. > > Thanks for the feedback, > Scott Allen > > > -- > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 13:11:04 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 06:11:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: <20040924131104.4604.qmail@web50904.mail.yahoo.com> I have 3 Slackware 7.1 routers with Rogers and Sympatico. I just picked up some junk computers with 32MB and put a junk CDROM on it and installed Slackware 7.1. Actually Slackware 3.3 will do the job and a computer with 16M memory will work. I did not set up DHCP. Each workstation just assign an static IP address. Easy! Why bother with DHCP? After I set them up, I put them in basement under staircase or some where dark corner and I took the monitor and CDROM away. They just kept working for me for years. Rats and bugs are doing the administor's job! Frank Peng. --- Scott Allen wrote: > > The IS department of the company I work for is > looking into revamping > our ancient network setup. They would like to put > each department on > its own IP network (all private addresses). The > department networks > would each be routed to a backbone network > containing servers. The > department networks would be 100MB ethernet and the > backbone would be > 1GB ethernet. There would also have to be some > restricted access from > some deparment networks to others. > > Rather than using individual routers for each > network link, I've > suggested using a single box, with the required 5 to > 8 ethernet > interfaces, to do all the routing and firewalling. > I'm thinking that > this could be a linux based PC with one or two quad > port ethernet > adapters. The ethernet adapters would only have to > be 100MB if the > motherboard had a Gigabit interface. > > I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the > FireHOL iptables > generator script, since my experience with both has > been quite > positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy > to set up and > maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: > ). > > We would like to have all workstations configured > from a DHCP server > (plus whatever Windows domain configuration is > required) on the > backbone. This means the router whould have to be a > DHCP relay agent > (and more?). > > Note that a separate router/firewall (possibly based > on the same > software) would link the backbone servers to the > real internet as > required. > > So, does this look to be possible and is it a good > idea, or am I > crazy for > suggesting it? > > Has anyone attempted anything similar? > > Any suggestions on what hardware would be required? > There seems to be > a few sources of quad and 6 port ethernet adapters, > and I've read > that at least Intel and D-Link ones have Linux > drivers. > > Thanks for the feedback, > Scott Allen > > > -- > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 15:44:55 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 11:44:55 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: <20040924154455.GA409@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 08:09:32AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > Rather than using individual routers for each network link, I've > suggested using a single box, with the required 5 to 8 ethernet > interfaces, to do all the routing and firewalling. I'm thinking that > this could be a linux based PC with one or two quad port ethernet > adapters. The ethernet adapters would only have to be 100MB if the > motherboard had a Gigabit interface. > > I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the FireHOL iptables Though this is distribution independent, Slackware is an excellent choice because it won't overwrite your modification. > generator script, since my experience with both has been quite > positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy to set up and > maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: > ). > So, does this look to be possible and is it a good idea, or am I crazy > for suggesting it? This would depend on whether Linux supports Gigabit port that you have. If it does, then steps involved in configuring 5 ports are the same as configuring 2 ports. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:08:58 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:08:58 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: <200409241208.58334.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 24 September 2004 08:09, Scott Allen wrote: > I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the FireHOL iptables > generator script, since my experience with both has been quite > positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy to set up and > maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: > ). Linux distro is pretty much irrelevant for a firewall although you'd probably want to avoid those that are targetted to the desktop. I looked at firehol right now (for about 60 seconds) didn't like the looks of it. That's probably just because I'm used to shorewall and it's config files ... I'm sure firehol is capable, it's probably best to go with what keeps you comfortable, once deployed I expect you'll rarely be changing firewall rules anyway. > We would like to have all workstations configured from a DHCP server > (plus whatever Windows domain configuration is required) on the > backbone. This means the router whould have to be a DHCP relay agent > (and more?). That shouldn't be a problem, as far as I recall it's "dhcrelay -i eth0 server", once for each interface, if the networks share a common dhcp server then one instance of dhcrelay should do the trick. > Any suggestions on what hardware would be required? There seems to be > a few sources of quad and 6 port ethernet adapters, and I've read > that at least Intel and D-Link ones have Linux drivers. There are 4 port cards from DLink we had pretty good luck in the past with DFE570TX but chances are you can't get that anymore. There's a new one (580) based on the sundance driver, the old one was tulip (or de4x5). We've had some duds from both batches but overall I think the 570s were better. I think Syskonnect makes 4 port gigabit nics, they are probably pricey but I expect they're good. You should consider throughput. I'm sure today's normal PCs are capable of saturating many 100Mb networks, Gigabit I am not so sure ... there is probably a bottleneck in there. I'll leave the math for others though since I have absolutely no idea ;-) Someone else already mentioned this but I'll add it as well, build 2. 2 identical systems with heartbeat makes failover trivial, it will save you a lot of stress. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:19:46 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 24 Sep 2004 12:19:46 -0400 Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: <8eb589e040923170828fa3df3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> <8eb589e040923170828fa3df3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: writes: > it modified my mbr but how would I use that newly modified mbr to my > advantage? Please don't top post, it makes it hard to follow the discussion. As to how you would use the spblinux boot block to your advantage, there are a couple of options. First, you could install spblinux (not just the boot block) to your USB key and boot it. I haven't tried spblinux but I believe there are instructions for doing this on the web site and/or in the download. Alternatively, you could install another small Linux on your USB key and use only the spblinux mbr. One I use is RIP: http://www.tux.org/pub/people/kent-robotti/looplinux/rip/ Download the bootable CD version (RIP-11.1.iso.bin) and the mkusb.sh script and follow the instructions about installing to USB flash in the README. To use it with the spblinux boot block, make sure you install RIP to a partition (i.e. /dev/sda1) and not the whole device (/dev/sda). Make the RIP partition active with fdisk then install the spblinux mbr to your USB key: # dd if=spb2_mbr.sec of=/dev/sda Finally, boot your USB key. If it won't boot: a) you did something wrong :-), or b) your key isn't bootable (at least not with spblinux), or c) you have USB disabled in your BIOS, or d) your BIOS can't boot from USB pen devices, with (d) being the most likely, in my opinion. As I said at the beginning of this thread, many BIOSes lie about being able to boot from USB. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:26:15 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:26:15 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <20040923152953.GO8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <20040923152953.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1377535658.20040924122615@rogers.com> Thursday, September 23, 2004, 11:29:53 AM, you wrote: LS> Have you checked that you don't have a firewall blocking port 67/68 used LS> by dhcp? LS> Try running tcpdump on the interface looking for port 67 and 68 traffic. So, I disabled the firewall, and no luck. Really frustrating. As previously mentioned, I will try to take home a bootable CD to see if it's just something with my OS config. As for tcpdump ('tcpdump -i eth0', I assume), I don't know enough about what the feedback says. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:27:07 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 24 Sep 2004 12:27:07 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: "Bruce Cowper" writes: > Scott, > > One issue that springs to mind is that this machine will be a single point > of failure for the whole network. You would also be wise to look at your > hardware as well to see if you can implement redundancy. Even mirrored > drives can make the world of difference in the event of a problem. I could be wrong but I thought the consensus on this list is that we don't top-post cuz it breaks up the thread. Anyway, it's easy enough to build a redundant router in a failover configuration. We have exactly this type of setup (using 4-port D-Link cards) at several clients and it has worked very well. > The overall idea is sound and has been used many times. I would simply > advise that whatever flavour of OS you use, that you fully explore the > implications this type of scenario may have to your network in terms of > traffic, reliability and redundancy. > > Thanks > > Bruce > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Scott Allen > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 08:09:32 -0400 > Subject: [TLUG]: Linux based n-way router? > > > > > The IS department of the company I work for is looking into revamping > > our ancient network setup. They would like to put each department on > > its own IP network (all private addresses). The department networks > > would each be routed to a backbone network containing servers. The > > department networks would be 100MB ethernet and the backbone would be > > 1GB ethernet. There would also have to be some restricted access from > > some deparment networks to others. > > > > Rather than using individual routers for each network link, I've > > suggested using a single box, with the required 5 to 8 ethernet > > interfaces, to do all the routing and firewalling. I'm thinking that > > this could be a linux based PC with one or two quad port ethernet > > adapters. The ethernet adapters would only have to be 100MB if the > > motherboard had a Gigabit interface. > > > > I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the FireHOL iptables > > generator script, since my experience with both has been quite > > positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy to set up and > > maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: > > ). > > > > We would like to have all workstations configured from a DHCP server > > (plus whatever Windows domain configuration is required) on the > > backbone. This means the router whould have to be a DHCP relay agent > > (and more?). > > > > Note that a separate router/firewall (possibly based on the same > > software) would link the backbone servers to the real internet as > > required. > > > > So, does this look to be possible and is it a good idea, or am I > > crazy for > > suggesting it? > > > > Has anyone attempted anything similar? > > > > Any suggestions on what hardware would be required? There seems to be > > a few sources of quad and 6 port ethernet adapters, and I've read > > that at least Intel and D-Link ones have Linux drivers. > > > > Thanks for the feedback, > > Scott Allen > > > > > > -- > > ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** > > ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:30:48 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:30:48 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <415371A3.8040107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <415371A3.8040107@rogers.com> Message-ID: <275121195.20040924123048@rogers.com> JK> You might try dhcpd or even a static address. I'm starting to think that the problem is beyond the dhcp client. I tried connecting through dhcpd, but it kept saying that there was no subnet specified...again, I don't know enough about this to know what I should be specifying in the .conf file. JK> Is there anyway you can hook up a hub and another computer, running JK> ethereal? If so, you could see what's happening on the wire. JK> Can you try another computer, that's running Windows? If that fails JK> too, there's no way Rogers can use their "we don't support Linux" excuse. Well, there is an iBook that no one is using at work...OSX too. Perhaps I'll try patching that into the modem to see if I can connect. Cheers, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell.? - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:45:53 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:45:53 -0400 Subject: TCCP: personal server co-location in Toronto In-Reply-To: <1095992993.31769.79.camel-sd4rSCkhOeu0gumUbo5taVDdeaDYgqOw@public.gmane.org> References: <1095992993.31769.79.camel@jupiter.acf.aquezada.com> Message-ID: <20040924164553.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 10:29:53PM -0400, Julian C. Dunn - Lists wrote: > Does anyone need to co-locate a server, either for themselves or a > small business? Recently I started a non-profit server co-location > service in Toronto called the Toronto Community Co-Location Project. > TCCP is part of a global movement bringing low-cost co-location > services to individuals, non-profits, and small businesses, and is > modelled upon the (immensely successful and now full) > California Community Co-Location Project at www.communitycolo.net > > TCCP is an entirely volunteer-run operation, but client servers are > professionally co-located at Peer 1 Network in downtown > Toronto. Prices start at $100/mo to co-locate a 1U machine with a > 128Kbps bandwidth commitment (95th). 100% of revenues go back into > the operation. Oh, I hate that 95% bandwidth crap. Such a @#$@#$ pain. Give me x bps bandwidth max, and Y GB/month transfer so I can keep track of it easily. I don't think I would ever personally sign up for anything using that burstable bandwidth calculation system. > If anyone's interested in putting a box in, you might want to check > us out. We're not a commercial organization; we're doing this for the > love of it and because we think there is a niche to be filled. Feel > free to check out our website: > > http://tccp.dreaming.org/ > > I'm also happy to answer any questions personally. Sounds neat overall. No need for me personally, but neat. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:47:22 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:47:22 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <1377535658.20040924122615-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <20040923152953.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1377535658.20040924122615@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040924164722.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 12:26:15PM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > > Thursday, September 23, 2004, 11:29:53 AM, you wrote: > > LS> Have you checked that you don't have a firewall blocking port 67/68 used > LS> by dhcp? > > LS> Try running tcpdump on the interface looking for port 67 and 68 traffic. > > So, I disabled the firewall, and no luck. Really frustrating. As > previously mentioned, I will try to take home a bootable CD to see > if it's just something with my OS config. > > As for tcpdump ('tcpdump -i eth0', I assume), I don't know enough > about what the feedback says. tcpdump -i eth0 -v -s 1500 'port 67 or port 68' Should show BOOTP or DHCP request and hopefully offer or acknowledge. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:48:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:48:36 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <275121195.20040924123048-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <415371A3.8040107@rogers.com> <275121195.20040924123048@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040924164836.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 12:30:48PM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > I'm starting to think that the problem is beyond the dhcp client. I > tried connecting through dhcpd, but it kept saying that there was no > subnet specified...again, I don't know enough about this to know what > I should be specifying in the .conf file. > > Well, there is an iBook that no one is using at work...OSX too. > Perhaps I'll try patching that into the modem to see if I can > connect. dhcpd is a dhcp SERVER, not a client. dhcpcd and pump and dhclient are dhcp clients, which is what you want. You do NOT want dhcpd on the machine, unless it is configured to stay far away from the interface your cable modem is connected to (or you risk assigning yourself an ip which would be wrong). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:54:22 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:54:22 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: <20040924165422.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 08:09:32AM -0400, Scott Allen wrote: > > The IS department of the company I work for is looking into revamping > our ancient network setup. They would like to put each department on > its own IP network (all private addresses). The department networks > would each be routed to a backbone network containing servers. The > department networks would be 100MB ethernet and the backbone would be > 1GB ethernet. There would also have to be some restricted access from > some deparment networks to others. > > Rather than using individual routers for each network link, I've > suggested using a single box, with the required 5 to 8 ethernet > interfaces, to do all the routing and firewalling. I'm thinking that > this could be a linux based PC with one or two quad port ethernet > adapters. The ethernet adapters would only have to be 100MB if the > motherboard had a Gigabit interface. > > I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the FireHOL iptables > generator script, since my experience with both has been quite > positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy to set up and > maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: > ). > > We would like to have all workstations configured from a DHCP server > (plus whatever Windows domain configuration is required) on the > backbone. This means the router whould have to be a DHCP relay agent > (and more?). It means running a dhcp server on each subnet (since that is the point of seperating them with a router). dhcpd on linux can easily run seperate settings per interface so it could be a great dhcp server for that use. > Note that a separate router/firewall (possibly based on the same > software) would link the backbone servers to the real internet as > required. Or it could be the same machine. I can't see why having two machines increates security. > So, does this look to be possible and is it a good idea, or am I > crazy for > suggesting it? > > Has anyone attempted anything similar? No, haven't attempted that myself, but it sure sound perfectly doable. A more common (and maybe cheaper in some cases) solution to getting many subnets into one router, is to get a switch with vlan support, and then run one subnet per port and set a vlan id on each port, and trunk them to one port on which the linux box is connected with a single (maybe gig) ethernet port which then has an ip assigned for itself on each vlan. This keeps the traffic from each subnet seperated by the switch from each other, but all the traffic makes it to the linux box if it has to. For large number of subnets, a vlan enabled switch would be cheaper than just buying lots of ethernet ports for the router. And one gig ethernet port can easily handle 10 or 20 100mbit subnets in general. They aren't all going to be at 100% all the time after all. > Any suggestions on what hardware would be required? There seems to be > a few sources of quad and 6 port ethernet adapters, and I've read > that at least Intel and D-Link ones have Linux drivers. I think I have seen quad port cards advertised in Linux Journal. They certainly exist and some have linxu drivers. I believe most are actually just one card with 4 ethernet chips, and since most common pci ethernet chips work in linux, a quad port card ought to as well, but it may not be quite that simple. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:56:24 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 12:56:24 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <200409241208.58334.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> <200409241208.58334.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040924165624.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 12:08:58PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > You should consider throughput. I'm sure today's normal PCs are capable of > saturating many 100Mb networks, Gigabit I am not so sure ... there is > probably a bottleneck in there. I'll leave the math for others though since I > have absolutely no idea ;-) PCI becomes a bottleneck for gigabit unless you have serious pci slots. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 16:39:12 2004 From: bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Bruce Cowper) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 17:39:12 +0100 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: > I could be wrong but I thought the consensus on this list is that we > don't > top-post cuz it breaks up the thread. My apologies to all.. getting used to the group etiquette. > Anyway, it's easy enough to build a redundant router in a failover > configuration. We have exactly this type of setup (using 4-port D-Link > cards) at several clients and it has worked very well. You are absolutely right, it is an ideal situation is to be able to provide automatic failover on your network. Especially if you can also look at load balancing as well. I have used similar scenarios many times to great effect. However, if you can also build in a certain amount of hardware redundancy as well with very little difference in cost or difficulty, so much the better. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 17:00:46 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:00:46 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <20040924164836.GV8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <415371A3.8040107@rogers.com> <275121195.20040924123048@rogers.com> <20040924164836.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1872545743.20040924130046@rogers.com> Friday, September 24, 2004, 12:48:36 PM, you wrote: LS> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 12:30:48PM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: >> I'm starting to think that the problem is beyond the dhcp client. I >> tried connecting through dhcpd, but it kept saying that there was no >> subnet specified...again, I don't know enough about this to know what >> I should be specifying in the .conf file. >> >> Well, there is an iBook that no one is using at work...OSX too. >> Perhaps I'll try patching that into the modem to see if I can >> connect. LS> dhcpd is a dhcp SERVER, not a client. dhcpcd and pump and dhclient are LS> dhcp clients, which is what you want. You do NOT want dhcpd on the LS> machine, unless it is configured to stay far away from the interface LS> your cable modem is connected to (or you risk assigning yourself an ip LS> which would be wrong). Thanks - I think I've been confused between dhcpd and dhcpcd for the last while. I don't believe I have dhcpd running, but I'll also check that because that would obviously not be a good thing. -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 14:30:23 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:30:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <415371A3.8040107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <415371A3.8040107@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > Mine's on most of the time, but flickers. However that flicker could be due > to traffic in either direction. On a normal cable installation the arp packets for the entire subnet are visible at each station and cause flickering of the pc link led whether the respective node is up or down. They also load the tcpdump output, so you need to filter them out to see the dhcp lease traffic. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 14:28:11 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 10:28:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Boot from Usb Key In-Reply-To: <8eb589e040923170828fa3df3-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <8eb589e040921164535e3804b@mail.gmail.com> <8eb589e040923170828fa3df3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 23 Sep 2004 jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote: > it modified my mbr but how would I use that newly modified mbr to my advantage? Read the lilo documentation carefully. You can copy the new mbr with dd and tell lilo to use it instead of the default. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 17:00:52 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:00:52 -0400 Subject: No Buck Rogers Budget In-Reply-To: <41541C1E.8080106-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> <4153805D.80201@rogers.com> <41541C1E.8080106@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20040924170052.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 09:07:42AM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > okay. i understand. a 10kVA UPS can be 100K itself. > Fine...but the budget is around 20k to 50k..you should be able to get > some decent stuff for that. > Maybe not the Buck Rogers stuff, but maybe some Space 1999 hw. (remember > that show?) If you want to make reliable processing/fileserver/whatever servers with reliable storage and such for that budget, about the best you are likely to do would be: 3ware 9500 run SATA raid (hot swap bays are easy to get for that now) maybe some dual opteron boxes with enough ram. gigabit ethernet should be reasonable in price now, along with whatever switch is needed. Any kind of redundant fileserving tends to get into the expensive range (I have seen NFS servers that use SATA drives and can stay in sync themselves for I think $15000 each for 15 drive models.) That means if the fileserver dies, the other keeps serving NFS on the same IP with the same data. Rather nice, if that is what you need. load balanced and redundant web servers are much easier (although if they receive and store data, that gets tricky unless you have the redundant NFS server). So what is the purpose of this setup going to be? WEbserving, database, file serving, or what? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 17:34:40 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:34:40 -0400 Subject: No Buck Rogers Budget In-Reply-To: <41541C1E.8080106-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> <4153805D.80201@rogers.com> <41541C1E.8080106@knet.ca> Message-ID: <41545AB0.9090802@rogers.com> Teddy Mills wrote: > okay. i understand. a 10kVA UPS can be 100K itself. > Fine...but the budget is around 20k to 50k..you should be able to get > some decent stuff for that. > Maybe not the Buck Rogers stuff, but maybe some Space 1999 hw. (remember > that show?) You mean the show with all the cheezy props? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 17:52:50 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:52:50 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <1377535658.20040924122615-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <20040923152953.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1377535658.20040924122615@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41545EF2.6010902@rogers.com> Matt Cahill wrote: > Thursday, September 23, 2004, 11:29:53 AM, you wrote: > > LS> Have you checked that you don't have a firewall blocking port 67/68 used > LS> by dhcp? > > LS> Try running tcpdump on the interface looking for port 67 and 68 traffic. > > So, I disabled the firewall, and no luck. Really frustrating. As > previously mentioned, I will try to take home a bootable CD to see > if it's just something with my OS config. > > As for tcpdump ('tcpdump -i eth0', I assume), I don't know enough > about what the feedback says. > > M > > You'll probably find Ethereal easier to use. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 17:55:57 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 13:55:57 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> Message-ID: <41545FAD.8030005@rogers.com> Scott Allen wrote: > > The IS department of the company I work for is looking into revamping > our ancient network setup. They would like to put each department on its > own IP network (all private addresses). The department networks would > each be routed to a backbone network containing servers. The department > networks would be 100MB ethernet and the backbone would be 1GB ethernet. > There would also have to be some restricted access from some deparment > networks to others. Hi Scott. There was an article in the recent Linux Journal about building a multiport Linux WAN router. While they were connecting to DS3s and DS1s, there's probably a bit of useful info in that article.' -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 18:04:14 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:04:14 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <200409241208.58334.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> <200409241208.58334.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <4154619E.4010109@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fraser Campbell wrote: | On Friday 24 September 2004 08:09, Scott Allen wrote: | |>I'm thinking of using Slackware Linux and the FireHOL iptables |>generator script, since my experience with both has been quite |>positive. FireHOL looks like it would make it easy to set up and |>maintain all the "virtual" routers required (see: |> ). | | Linux distro is pretty much irrelevant for a firewall although you'd probably | want to avoid those that are targetted to the desktop. Need to care about which kernel for obvious reasons. Ideally, you want this to be a pretty stripped down box. Probably only ssh for admin, and then turn on apache only when you're actively admining the firewall app layer. If you want to monitor, then setting up an SNMP daemon is pretty easy, but you might find it easier to just set up mrtg locally. Downside is running a web server on your router. If performance / reliability justifies the budget, then a pair of HP routing switchs would be the way to go: http://www.hp.com/rnd/products/routing_switches/9300_series/overview.htm Their proprietary VRSP is a big win over STP for layer 2 failover. And in term of raw performance, it will blow away any PCI-X bus based PC. But the fact that you're asking on this list kind of implies you're not looking at this kind of price range. :) Speaking of performance, Lennart recommended aggregating ports (called bonding in linux) and running VLANs over them. I tried doing this about a year ago and had no luck getting the VLANs to work over the bonded ports. | I looked at firehol right now (for about 60 seconds) didn't like the looks of | it. That's probably just because I'm used to shorewall and it's config | files ... I'm sure firehol is capable, it's probably best to go with what | keeps you comfortable, once deployed I expect you'll rarely be changing | firewall rules anyway. I'll second the vote for shorewall. It's a good tool. | There are 4 port cards from DLink we had pretty good luck in the past with | DFE570TX but chances are you can't get that anymore. There's a new one (580) | based on the sundance driver, the old one was tulip (or de4x5). We've had | some duds from both batches but overall I think the 570s were better. I've used these cards too and am quite happy with them. | I think Syskonnect makes 4 port gigabit nics, they are probably pricey but I | expect they're good. | | You should consider throughput. I'm sure today's normal PCs are capable of | saturating many 100Mb networks, Gigabit I am not so sure ... there is | probably a bottleneck in there. I'll leave the math for others though since I | have absolutely no idea ;-) The guidline I've always followed is no more than 100 PC's per subnet. | Someone else already mentioned this but I'll add it as well, build 2. 2 | identical systems with heartbeat makes failover trivial, it will save you a | lot of stress. Instead of using heartbeat, I'd strongly suggest checking out the keepalived's VRRP implementation. http://www.keepalived.org/ - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBVGGdgfzn5SevSpoRAuNJAKCdbmz7UaZ4JEwNrrNGkBB5TLYsSwCeMV59 WA+K3Z+O7GCqfbjILjLrfc4= =Cr8f -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 18:42:28 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 14:42:28 -0400 Subject: Linux based n-way router? In-Reply-To: <4154619E.4010109-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040924120932.GB3595@localhost> <200409241208.58334.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4154619E.4010109@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20040924184228.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 02:04:14PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > Need to care about which kernel for obvious reasons. Ideally, you want > this to be a pretty stripped down box. Probably only ssh for admin, and > then turn on apache only when you're actively admining the firewall app > layer. > > If you want to monitor, then setting up an SNMP daemon is pretty easy, > but you might find it easier to just set up mrtg locally. Downside is > running a web server on your router. > > If performance / reliability justifies the budget, then a pair of HP > routing switchs would be the way to go: > http://www.hp.com/rnd/products/routing_switches/9300_series/overview.htm HP makes network gear? Who knew. > Their proprietary VRSP is a big win over STP for layer 2 failover. And > in term of raw performance, it will blow away any PCI-X bus based PC. > But the fact that you're asking on this list kind of implies you're not > looking at this kind of price range. :) Yeah I know cisco has a proprietary system too. > Speaking of performance, Lennart recommended aggregating ports (called > bonding in linux) and running VLANs over them. I tried doing this about > a year ago and had no luck getting the VLANs to work over the bonded ports. Actually I said runing one gigabit to a vlan switch. Bonding just seems silly and overkill and probably imposible for vlans due to the way vlan headers are done. > Instead of using heartbeat, I'd strongly suggest checking out the > keepalived's VRRP implementation. > > http://www.keepalived.org/ Yeah VRRP does look interesting. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 20:31:58 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 16:31:58 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <41545EF2.6010902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <4151A3E5.4080602@rogers.com> <1418408540.20040922123117@rogers.com> <4151CA30.10803@rogers.com> <1747850882.20040923101627@rogers.com> <20040923152953.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1377535658.20040924122615@rogers.com> <41545EF2.6010902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4154843E.3040400@knet.ca> is iptables running anywhere? Start from zero restrictions > Matt Cahill wrote: > >> Thursday, September 23, 2004, 11:29:53 AM, you wrote: >> >> LS> Have you checked that you don't have a firewall blocking port >> 67/68 used >> LS> by dhcp? >> >> LS> Try running tcpdump on the interface looking for port 67 and 68 >> traffic. >> >> So, I disabled the firewall, and no luck. Really frustrating. As >> previously mentioned, I will try to take home a bootable CD to see >> if it's just something with my OS config. >> >> As for tcpdump ('tcpdump -i eth0', I assume), I don't know enough >> about what the feedback says. >> >> M >> >> > > You'll probably find Ethereal easier to use. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Sep 24 23:06:20 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 19:06:20 -0400 Subject: No Buck Rogers Budget In-Reply-To: <41541C1E.8080106-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> <4153805D.80201@rogers.com> <41541C1E.8080106@knet.ca> Message-ID: <4154A86C.8030108@rogers.com> > okay. i understand. a 10kVA UPS can be 100K itself. > Fine...but the budget is around 20k to 50k..you should be able to get > some decent stuff for that. I used to work in/help run the datacentre for the hospitals in downtown Toronto (UHN/MSH), so I do have some useful information to offer. However, what I think you need to do, is to give more detail. For instance, what exactly is the nature of the business? what will they be doing? What are the SLAs (service level agreements)? With such a low amount of money for a datacentre startup, I would suggest you look into financing, that is to say, don't buy the equipment just rent it instead. It's not without its problems but it will let you stretch your dollars further. Give me as much detail as you can, and I'll be happy to pour over it and contribute what I can. I'm sick at home right now, and I could use something to keep me occupied. You'll probably find that bandwidth will be your biggest cost, if not in the initial provisioning, in the recurring costs. It's sick how much that shit costs. Whatever you do, don't bother using a 'home' type account for it. Use something meant for business, that way you'll have a right to scream and bitch when/if they fuck up your connectivity. A friend and ex-coworker of mine started up a community colocation service, I think you should probably check this out (http://tccp.dreaming.org/). Colocation of some kind is your best bet in terms of economics for bandwidth. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 01:01:16 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 21:01:16 -0400 Subject: CUPS PDF In-Reply-To: <4151F116.1080909-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4150A2DF.3070205@canada.com> <4151F116.1080909@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <4154C35C.5020203@canada.com> Hi All, Sorry to ahve been so long. I have solved my problem and thought the solution could be useful to some of you. First of you, thanks to Anton for his input. It was indeed a directory and permission problem but not as Anton thought (I did the installation as root and cups is also running as root). Actually, you have to create manually a folder /nonexistent folder along with a /nonexistent/cups-pdf folder. I then got another error ([ERROR] failed to set file mode for PDF file (/nonexistent/cups-pdf/PDF_on_server_-_CUPS_v1_1_21rc1.pdf)). To solve it, it put 777 as the permissions on both folders. It works now like a charm. Gilles Anton Markov wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Gilles Fourchet wrote: > | Tue Sep 21 17:46:46 2004 [ERROR] failed to create anonymous output > | directory (/nonexistent/cups-pdf) > | > | I have done a quick research on the net without any luck. Do you have > | any idea? > > Check to see if you need to tell cups-pdf were to save the file. If it > is really trying to create the directory "/nonexistent/cups-pdf" then it > probably does not have permission to do so (for good reasons). It should > be outputing to some temporary directoy like /var/tmp or something. > > > - -- > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> > > GnuPG Key fingerprint = > 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 > > *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFBUfEURreNkzrRRLQRAq1xAJ9gB0d4wHC1Grz6MdZQiYqxHfvNSwCbBRv3 > pTx4FqEk6R1gQICBqOLU8ZQ= > =rYZ6 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 03:15:58 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 24 Sep 2004 23:15:58 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <20040924164836.GV8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <275121195.20040924123048@rogers.com> <20040924164836.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200409242315.58331.m-cahill@rogers.com> I'll keep this short: I have no clue what happened, but I'm connected now. Slightly longer version: - tried Knoppix: no luck - had a spare HD, loaded Win98SE just to see whether it was the OS or the modem: no connection. Called Rogers. Twenty-five minutes later, the gentleman told me to contact a PC repair shop because of a possible 'winsock' conflict (!) -decided to switch the Ethernet cable to USB and switched HD's back to Libranet: no connection. Saw that the 'dhcpd' server was starting up right after the dhcp client. - played around - found that 'dhcpd' comes with the 'dhcp' package and - not knowing how to disable the server from running - deleted the 'dhcpd.conf' file in /etc (read: desperate curiosity). - upon reboot, it bloody worked. - the USB connection seems a lot more solid (literally, staring at the light) than the Ethernet cable, leading me to wonder if it was, as they say, The Cable. Strange. However, I did the troubleshooting equivalent of pinching myself: I rebooted again, and it worked again. So, I'm not dreaming. Weird. However: thanks to everyone for their assistance. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 11:04:23 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 07:04:23 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <200409242315.58331.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <275121195.20040924123048@rogers.com> <20040924164836.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200409242315.58331.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <415550B7.5060705@rogers.com> Matt Cahill wrote: > I'll keep this short: I have no clue what happened, but I'm connected now. > > Slightly longer version: > > - tried Knoppix: no luck > > - had a spare HD, loaded Win98SE just to see whether it was the OS or the > modem: no connection. Called Rogers. Twenty-five minutes later, the > gentleman told me to contact a PC repair shop because of a possible 'winsock' > conflict (!) > > -decided to switch the Ethernet cable to USB and switched HD's back to > Libranet: no connection. Saw that the 'dhcpd' server was starting up right > after the dhcp client. > > - played around - found that 'dhcpd' comes with the 'dhcp' package and - not > knowing how to disable the server from running - deleted the 'dhcpd.conf' > file in /etc (read: desperate curiosity). > > - upon reboot, it bloody worked. > > - the USB connection seems a lot more solid (literally, staring at the light) > than the Ethernet cable, leading me to wonder if it was, as they say, The > Cable. Either the cable or bad ethernet port. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 18:45:58 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 14:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <200409242315.58331.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <275121195.20040924123048@rogers.com> <20040924164836.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200409242315.58331.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 24 Sep 2004, Matt Cahill wrote: > I'll keep this short: I have no clue what happened, but I'm connected now. Imho you're not done yet. Try to switch back to the ethernet cable. See if the ether cable is twisted (it should be straight through but check your modem docs). The 'solid' light simply means the connection is saturated. This is not good imho. It should flicker indicating some spare time on the link. For me switching from USB to ethernet on a Terayon cable modem jumped the speed from 75k to 100k (long time average). And the light flickers, it's not steady on. Maybe your modem is different. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 15:18:47 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 11:18:47 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel Message-ID: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> I'm hoping there are geeks out there venerable enough to remember something about printing to a daisywheel. I just scored an IBM Wheelwriter 10 Series II 6783 typewriter with parallel print option from Freecycle. There's nothing about printer codes in the manual, and seemingly nothing on the net about controlling it. Dunno if it'll talk Diablo or Qume codes, but even these seem to have almost entirely dropped from memory. cheers, Stewart [ why bother? 1. The print quality from one of these is fabulous; sharp, with a slight indentation into the paper. 2. It works. My Epson inkjet complains bitterly (and sometimes expensively, by demanding new cartridges) if it's not powered up at least every month. This IBM hadn't been turned on for 10 years, but powered up and worked first time. 3. It was free, and is gloriously mechanical. 4. Why *not* bother? :-) ] -- $,="\n";foreach(split('',"\3\3\3c>\0>c\177cc\0~c~``\0cc\177cc")) {$a++;$_=unpack('B8',$_);tr,01,\40#,;$b[$a%6].=$_};print @b,"\n" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 13:44:15 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 09:44:15 -0400 Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <200409242315.58331.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200409250944.16191.m-cahill@rogers.com> On September 25, 2004 02:45 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Imho you're not done yet. Try to switch back to the ethernet cable. See if > the ether cable is twisted (it should be straight through but check your > modem docs). The 'solid' light simply means the connection is saturated. > This is not good imho. It should flicker indicating some spare time on > the link. For me switching from USB to ethernet on a Terayon cable modem > jumped the speed from 75k to 100k (long time average). And the light > flickers, it's not steady on. Maybe your modem is different. Actually, I wasn't being literal when I said the light was "more solid". It still flickers. It's just that the signal certainly seems stronger than before (solid=stronger). Sorry for the confusion. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 23:21:38 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:21:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <41558C57.70409-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I'm hoping there are geeks out there venerable enough to remember something > about printing to a daisywheel. I just scored an IBM Wheelwriter 10 Series II > 6783 typewriter with parallel print option from Freecycle. > > There's nothing about printer codes in the manual, and seemingly nothing on > the net about controlling it. Dunno if it'll talk Diablo or Qume codes, but > even these seem to have almost entirely dropped from memory. I only have some experience with chain line printers but the idea is you have to use the right driver esp. wrt carriage return time (there is no buffer ?). This key on google may help: daisy printcap let us know how it works, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 23:12:07 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:12:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: new cable modem - and problems In-Reply-To: <200409250944.16191.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1802076605.20040922101854@rogers.com> <200409242315.58331.m-cahill@rogers.com> <200409250944.16191.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 25 Sep 2004, Matt Cahill wrote: > On September 25, 2004 02:45 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> Imho you're not done yet. Try to switch back to the ethernet cable. See if >> the ether cable is twisted (it should be straight through but check your >> modem docs). The 'solid' light simply means the connection is saturated. >> This is not good imho. It should flicker indicating some spare time on >> the link. For me switching from USB to ethernet on a Terayon cable modem >> jumped the speed from 75k to 100k (long time average). And the light >> flickers, it's not steady on. Maybe your modem is different. > > > Actually, I wasn't being literal when I said the light was "more solid". It > still flickers. It's just that the signal certainly seems stronger than > before (solid=stronger). Sorry for the confusion. In this case light off as much as possible *and* high bandwidth indicated by transfer speed gauge is good (both of these together). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Sep 25 19:17:53 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 15:17:53 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <41558C57.70409-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4155C461.8020209@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I'm hoping there are geeks out there venerable enough to remember > something about printing to a daisywheel. I just scored an IBM > Wheelwriter 10 Series II 6783 typewriter with parallel print option from > Freecycle. > > There's nothing about printer codes in the manual, and seemingly nothing > on the net about controlling it. Dunno if it'll talk Diablo or Qume > codes, but even these seem to have almost entirely dropped from memory. > > cheers, > Stewart > > [ why bother? > > 1. The print quality from one of these is fabulous; sharp, with a > slight indentation into the paper. > > 2. It works. My Epson inkjet complains bitterly (and sometimes > expensively, by demanding new cartridges) if it's not powered up at > least every month. This IBM hadn't been turned on for 10 years, but > powered up and worked first time. > > 3. It was free, and is gloriously mechanical. > > 4. Why *not* bother? :-) > ] > It might also be ebcdic. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 13:38:01 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:38:01 +1000 Subject: Hello All In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200409262338.02028.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Wednesday 15 September 2004 06:20, Michael MacLeod wrote: > And secondly, now that I'm moved into Toronto I need a job. I'm > fairly skilled with computers in general, and linux especially (been > running Crux [www.crux.nu] exclusively for about four years now), but > I don't really have any pieces of paper to prove any of this (see > above). What's the best way to go about getting an entry level > position in town? I'd rather work tech support than flip burgers... Hi Michael, I'm moving to Toronto in January (the 7th to be exact) from home, here in Melbourne Australia. I too will be looking for a job, only, I'm an undergrad Software Engineer. I'm looking for an internship, as a part of my degree. Let me know how you get on with your job hunting. I'll be interested in your progress before I come over, so I can see how hard I'm going to find it! Regards, David Colebatch -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 16:25:45 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:25:45 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <005501c4a3e5$7a0c9620$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> I still deal with impact printers because I still have to deal with (from time to time) multi-part forms that use that carbonless carbon paper. For that stuff you must have an impact printer, though in my case I use dot-matrix printers. Still about 15 years ago I was using (even by that times) old daisy wheel printer to spit out cheques for my then (now bankrupt) employer.... Also, while I don't know about daisywheel printers I do know that some firms such as Lexmark are still building/selling dot matrix printers for business forms handling.... "Stewart C. Russell" on Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:18 AM wrote: > I'm hoping there are geeks out there venerable enough to remember > something about printing to a daisywheel. I just scored an IBM > Wheelwriter 10 Series II 6783 typewriter with parallel print option from > Freecycle. > > There's nothing about printer codes in the manual, and seemingly nothing > on the net about controlling it. Dunno if it'll talk Diablo or Qume > codes, but even these seem to have almost entirely dropped from memory. > > cheers, > Stewart > > [ why bother? > > 1. The print quality from one of these is fabulous; sharp, with a > slight indentation into the paper. > > 2. It works. My Epson inkjet complains bitterly (and sometimes > expensively, by demanding new cartridges) if it's not powered up at > least every month. This IBM hadn't been turned on for 10 years, but > powered up and worked first time. > > 3. It was free, and is gloriously mechanical. > > 4. Why *not* bother? :-) > ] > > -- > $,="\n";foreach(split('',"\3\3\3c>\0>c\177cc\0~c~``\0cc\177cc")) > {$a++;$_=unpack('B8',$_);tr,01,\40#,;$b[$a%6].=$_};print @b,"\n" > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 16:35:30 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:35:30 -0400 Subject: Free Stuff Questions... Message-ID: <006101c4a3e6$d6b4df80$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> I plan to be at the next NewTLUG meeting with some free stuff from Rick Tomaschuk (Novell related stuff). The question I've got is how much interest would there be in the following items: - Unreal Tournament 2003 posters - Palm M500 series cradles - Palm III series cradles - Telephone line busy outs. I have brought some of most of the above to past TLUG and NewTLUG meetings, and the question is have I saturated the demand for these items? Basically I don't want to be taking stuff up to the meeting, and then be hauling it all home. So if there is no interest in this stuff I will not bother.. Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 16:40:57 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 12:40:57 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <005501c4a3e5$7a0c9620$4501a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> <005501c4a3e5$7a0c9620$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040926164057.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 12:25:45PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > I still deal with impact printers because I still have to deal with (from > time to time) multi-part forms that use that carbonless carbon paper. For > that stuff you must have an impact printer, though in my case I use > dot-matrix printers. Still about 15 years ago I was using (even by that > times) old daisy wheel printer to spit out cheques for my then (now > bankrupt) employer.... > > Also, while I don't know about daisywheel printers I do know that some firms > such as Lexmark are still building/selling dot matrix printers for business > forms handling.... Well Epson still makes a few models of the LQ series dot matrix printers. Those multipart forms just won't go away... :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 14:09:31 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 10:09:31 -0400 Subject: Lilo Problem Message-ID: <31f5947d040926070925c00208@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have a dual boot with XP and Mandrake, they are both on a seperate HDD. Im using lilo, but ever since I have upgraded from mandrake 9.2 to mandrake 10, the lilo screen has added some items like "old windows" and "old linix" How can I get this off? Ive looked in the lilo.conf but it doesnt seem to have the new links. Heres the lilo.conf boot=/dev/hda map=/boot/map default="linux" keytable=/boot/us.klt prompt nowarn timeout=100 message=/boot/message menu-scheme=wb:bw:wb:bw image=/boot/vmlinuz label="linux" root=/dev/hdb6 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi acpi=ht splash=silent" vga=788 read-only image=/boot/vmlinuz label="linux-nonfb" root=/dev/hdb6 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=mount hdd=ide-scsi acpi=ht" read-only image=/boot/vmlinuz label="failsafe" root=/dev/hdb6 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=nomount hdd=ide-scsi acpi=ht failsafe" read-only other=/dev/hda1 label="windows" table=/dev/hda other=/dev/fd0 label="floppy" unsafe -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 17:20:38 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:20:38 -0400 Subject: Free Stuff Questions... In-Reply-To: <006101c4a3e6$d6b4df80$4501a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <006101c4a3e6$d6b4df80$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <1096219236.2749.15.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Sun, 2004-09-26 at 12:35, Colin McGregor wrote: > how much interest > would there be in the following items: > > - Unreal Tournament 2003 posters none > - Palm M500 series cradles a bit > - Palm III series cradles a fair bit > - Telephone line busy outs. (I don't even know what that is, but) more djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 17:44:28 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:44:28 -0400 Subject: Lilo Problem In-Reply-To: <31f5947d040926070925c00208-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <31f5947d040926070925c00208@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4156FFFC.5050808@rogers.com> Greetings, > "old windows" and "old linix" How can I get this off? Ive looked in > the lilo.conf but it doesnt seem to have the new links. Just a guess off the top of my head here, but are you sure that the install/upgrade didn't switch boot loaders (i.e. it installed grub or something) on you? Regards, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 17:52:27 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:52:27 -0400 Subject: Lilo Problem In-Reply-To: <4156FFFC.5050808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <31f5947d040926070925c00208@mail.gmail.com> <4156FFFC.5050808@rogers.com> Message-ID: <31f5947d0409261052d3fed5c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 13:44:28 -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > Greetings, > > > "old windows" and "old linix" How can I get this off? Ive looked in > > the lilo.conf but it doesnt seem to have the new links. > > Just a guess off the top of my head here, but are you sure that the > install/upgrade didn't switch boot loaders (i.e. it installed grub or > something) on you? > > Regards, > Byron Im sure it didnt, I still have lilo 9.2 installed. -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 21:43:52 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 17:43:52 -0400 Subject: Hello All In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200409261743.52649.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On September 14, 2004 04:20 pm, Michael MacLeod wrote: > ? ? ?And secondly, now that I'm moved into Toronto I need a job. I'm > fairly skilled with computers in general, and linux especially (been > running Crux [www.crux.nu] exclusively for about four years now), but > I don't really have any pieces of paper to prove any of this (see > above). What's the best way to go about getting an entry level > position in town? I'd rather work tech support than flip burgers... one of the things i liked most about this city was the fact that people here didn't seem as interested in a fancy piece of paper as they were in what i can do or what i've done. make a website for yourself. make it look good. and post examples of code you've written on it. finished products are better. i got my current job from someone who found my site on monster, checked me out, liked my image gallery script, downloaded the code and figured he could use me. if you don't have any actual work to show, but lots of school credit, you might find ottawa more hospitable. i had a really tough time in that little town 'cause i don't have any formal schooling and that's all they seemed interested in. -- lift up yourselves, men, take yourselves out of the mire and hitch your hopes to the stars; yes, rise as high as the very stars themselves. let no man pull you down, let no man destroy your ambition, because man is your brother; he is not your lord. - marcus garvey -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 22:03:21 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:03:21 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <20040923143716.GA408-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> <20040923143716.GA408@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040926220321.GA28398@m450> On Thu, Sep 23, 2004 at 10:37:16AM -0400, William Park wrote > Slackware in all my machines, because > - it's the only one which can be installed using shell script. > - it's small (2GB full install), and library dependency is none > issue. > - all files are where you expect them to be > - rc.* are BSD style which is easier to maintain > - it doesn't overwrite any of my changes (like Redhat) Sounds a lot like CRUX ( http://crux.nu ) which I'm using on both my machines. The base system comes as a 200 megabyte ISO image. Its "ports" system is neat. Each "port" is a small metadata file in its own subdirectory. Running "pkgmk -d" downloads the regular tarball (if not already present) and builds it from scratch. The default compiler options are "-O2 -march=i686". My 5-year-old Dell (450mhz 128 megs of RAM) is quite snappy running Blackbox rather than KDE or GNOME. CRUX uses Reiserfs and devfs (gonna have to switch to udev soon). -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 22:06:27 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 18:06:27 -0400 Subject: No Buck Rogers Budget In-Reply-To: <41545AB0.9090802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41531B14.2030808@knet.ca> <4153805D.80201@rogers.com> <41541C1E.8080106@knet.ca> <41545AB0.9090802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040926220627.GB28398@m450> On Fri, Sep 24, 2004 at 01:34:40PM -0400, James Knott wrote > >Maybe not the Buck Rogers stuff, but maybe some Space 1999 hw. (remember > >that show?) > > You mean the show with all the cheezy props? ;-) I always thought of it as a British sitcom. At least "UFO" took itself seriously. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Sep 26 00:20:28 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:20:28 -0400 Subject: OT: Weather stations In-Reply-To: <1095357551.2747.25.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200409252020.28836.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Just read the weather script thread. It got me curious ... Let's say I wanted to continually measure/record temperature, wind speed, humidity, barometric pressure and precipitation. Is there such a thing as a personal weather station which can be mounted on the roof and interfaced with my PC? Any recommendations on what would be the best bang for the buck, something that will last without costing me an arm and a leg? Thanks, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 00:45:16 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:45:16 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) Message-ID: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> Greetings, Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity for heat storage than good ole H20? Regards, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 00:58:12 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 20:58:12 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <00bd01c4a42d$10c2c520$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Well, I expect mercury would fit that bill, but it has it's own sets of issues (like being toxic and that it can be absorbed through the skin). What application do you need this liquid? "Byron L. Sonne" on Sunday, September 26, 2004 8:45 PM wrote: > Greetings, > > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > for heat storage than good ole H20? > > Regards, > Byron > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 01:03:28 2004 From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:03:28 -0400 Subject: water, energy... Message-ID: <415766E0.8050802@sympatico.ca> > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > for heat storage than good ole H20? Yes, Glycol. It is the liquid of choice for heat exchangers. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 01:22:04 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:22:04 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <4155C461.8020209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> <4155C461.8020209@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41576B3C.1000507@sympatico.ca> Thanks, all. I found the old termcap entries, and it's definitely not EBCDIC, as it just understood ASCII with CRLFs. A venerable polymath of my acquaintance (Ted Harding -- mathematician, linguist, troff guru) has offered some additional help, so I think I'm set. The two biggest problems: * my distro considers parallel to be a 'legacy device', which you have to build in support in the kernel. * 9 ASCII characters are missing from the printer's repertoire, so no C source for me ;-) thanks, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 01:11:21 2004 From: bruce-OovZ+K7yJWjk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Bruce Cowper) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 02:11:21 +0100 Subject: OT: Weather stations In-Reply-To: <200409252020.28836.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200409252020.28836.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: Fraser Campbell To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Date: Sat, 25 Sep 2004 20:20:28 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Weather stations > Just read the weather script thread. It got me curious ... > > Let's say I wanted to continually measure/record temperature, wind > speed, > humidity, barometric pressure and precipitation. Is there such a thing > as a > personal weather station which can be mounted on the roof and > interfaced with > my PC? > There are a large number of such solutions. Essentially you get what you pay for and there are modular solutions for most pockets. One of the better manufacturers is campbell scientific. Their personal weather stations can be found at: http://www.weatherhawk.com. However, I am not sure if their software is available for Linux. I know that they do Windows and MAC versions. Otherwise a few other manufacturers to look at are: vaisala: www.vaisala.com axys: http://www.axystechnologies.com/ texas instruments: http://www.txwx.com/ oregon scientific: http://www.oregonscientific.com Even Radioshack do a range of kits. The problem tends to be in terms of reliability and real value for money. You have to watch a lot of the cheaper instruments as they quite simple do not cope well with the elements. Sounds silly for weather instruments, but the cheap ones don't last. Most systems you can choose the specific instruments you require and use their data loggers to directly interface. They then connect to your PC for data storage and manipluation. Some of the manufacturers software will even automatically upload data to websites for monitoring. Be aware also where you place your instruments as they will easily be affected by houses, trees and other localised conditions. See if you can find a radio ham and use their aerials.. There are a number of them in Georgetown. > Any recommendations on what would be the best bang for the buck, > something > that will last without costing me an arm and a leg? > > Thanks, > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Thanks Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 01:46:03 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:46:03 -0400 Subject: OT: Weather stations In-Reply-To: <200409252020.28836.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200409252020.28836.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <415770DB.5020703@sympatico.ca> Fraser Campbell wrote: > > Let's say I wanted to continually measure/record temperature, wind speed, > humidity, barometric pressure and precipitation. Is there such a thing as a > personal weather station which can be mounted on the roof and interfaced with > my PC? Yep. I build weather stations. Systems that are cheap and can do the job include Davis Instruments . I think that True North Power in Lion's Head (near the big-ass wind turbine on the Bruce Peninsula) are the local dealers. Davis make some wireless systems that mean you don't have to drill for cables. They unfortunately have a very sucky website which just crashed Mozilla for me. If you want more accuracy and reliability, you'll have to go for something custom from Campbell Scientific. These are absurdly expensive (esp. considering that their loggers use 1970s microcontroller technology), but they are good enough to produce bankable data for building $100M wind farms. You probably don't need this. I've heard you can use the Davis system with Linux. Here's just one example: . cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 01:48:29 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:48:29 -0400 Subject: OT: Weather stations In-Reply-To: <200409252020.28836.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200409252020.28836.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <4157716D.9070101@rogers.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > Just read the weather script thread. It got me curious ... > > Let's say I wanted to continually measure/record temperature, wind speed, > humidity, barometric pressure and precipitation. Is there such a thing as a > personal weather station which can be mounted on the roof and interfaced with > my PC? > > Any recommendations on what would be the best bang for the buck, something > that will last without costing me an arm and a leg? There are such kits available and Heathkit had them years ago. Your best bet, would be to try a science store, such as the one on Dufferin St, across from Yorkdale. You can also google on weather station kit etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 01:56:41 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:56:41 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <41576B3C.1000507-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> <4155C461.8020209@rogers.com> <41576B3C.1000507@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040927015641.4EF364001@cbbrowne.com> > Thanks, all. I found the old termcap entries, and it's definitely not > EBCDIC, as it just understood ASCII with CRLFs. A venerable polymath > of my acquaintance (Ted Harding -- mathematician, linguist, troff > guru) has offered some additional help, so I think I'm set. I really wouldn't have expected EBCDIC; that was only ever pushed by IBM, and I'd be _really_ surprised to see EBCDIC hardware with a Centronic parallel interface. > The two biggest problems: > > * my distro considers parallel to be a 'legacy device', which you have > to build in support in the kernel. I'm marginally surprised about that; I seem to recall daisywheel printers typically being serial devices, which might well be even _more_ "legacy" :-). > * 9 ASCII characters are missing from the printer's repertoire, so no > C source for me ;-) Heh... -- let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linuxdistributions.html "Wintel: A Wasteland of Useless Software - If the bazillions of programs out there actually amount to something, why is everyone using MICROS~1 Office, Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Access, ..." -- cbbrowne-EpMkVnZMKZM at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 01:59:52 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 21:59:52 -0400 Subject: water, energy... In-Reply-To: <415766E0.8050802-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <415766E0.8050802@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41577418.4070201@rogers.com> John McGregor wrote: >> Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably >> liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity >> for heat storage than good ole H20? > > > > Yes, Glycol. It is the liquid of choice for heat exchangers. But doesn't it depend on the quantity of glycol vs water? As I recall, the optimum mix for heat capacity is somewhere around 50% and best freezing resistance about 60% glycol. I don't think straight glycol is as good as a mix with water. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:02:35 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:02:35 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <4157629C.1010306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <415774BB.4020407@sympatico.ca> Byron L. Sonne wrote: > > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > for heat storage than good ole H20? What sort of temperatures are you looking at? From the few minutes I was actually awake during heat engines classes, I seem to remember that water has different specific heat capacities with temperature. If you really, really need to get heat away from a very hot thing in a hurry, there's nothing to touch liquid sodium. It's what they used to use at the Dounreay breeder reactor in Scotland. Of course, being a highly reactive metal with a melting point just below the boiling point of water, there are some issues involved in its handling. ;-) I think you'd have to have a fairly specialized application to beat water on price, availability, toxicity and general inertness. You might get a better answer on Talk Energy , which is basically Slashdot for energy nerds. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:01:52 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:01:52 +1000 Subject: CUPS PDF In-Reply-To: <4154C35C.5020203-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4150A2DF.3070205@canada.com> <4151F116.1080909@truxtar.com> <4154C35C.5020203@canada.com> Message-ID: <200409271201.53014.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Saturday 25 September 2004 11:01, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > It was indeed a directory and permission problem but not as Anton > thought (I did the installation as root and cups is also running as > root). Actually, you have to create manually a folder /nonexistent > folder along with a /nonexistent/cups-pdf folder. I'm pretty sure that's a configuration issue. It's like when you see "your.domain.here" in some configs. ...you don't have to register "domain.here" to use that app do you ;) I wouldn't personally be creating another directory off / just for the sake of this. (yes, I use djbdns...) As suggested, /var/tmp, or maybe some network share so other users can use your "printer" would be better. > I then got another > error ([ERROR] failed to set file mode for PDF file > (/nonexistent/cups-pdf/PDF_on_server_-_CUPS_v1_1_21rc1.pdf)). To solve > it, it put 777 as the permissions on both folders. It works now like a > charm. Yeah, it would. Regards, David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:03:35 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:03:35 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <41576B3C.1000507-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> <4155C461.8020209@rogers.com> <41576B3C.1000507@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <415774F7.90502@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Thanks, all. I found the old termcap entries, and it's definitely not > EBCDIC, as it just understood ASCII with CRLFs. A venerable polymath of > my acquaintance (Ted Harding -- mathematician, linguist, troff guru) has > offered some additional help, so I think I'm set. > > The two biggest problems: > > * my distro considers parallel to be a 'legacy device', which you have > to build in support in the kernel. > > * 9 ASCII characters are missing from the printer's repertoire, so no C > source for me ;-) Mechanical printers often had a reduced character set, in order to reduce complexity. I used to service Teletype printers and they were complex enough, with just upper case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:05:10 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:05:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy... In-Reply-To: <415766E0.8050802-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <415766E0.8050802@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sep 2004, John McGregor wrote: > > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > > liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > > for heat storage than good ole H20? > > Yes, Glycol. It is the liquid of choice for heat exchangers. As of my (slightly old) edition of Marks' Standard Handbook for Mechanical Engineers, refrigeration glycols are usually solutions of one of the glycols in water, and their specific heat ranges from slightly less than that of water to considerably less. They are used not because they are better heat carriers, but because they freeze at lower temperatures; for cooling applications it's often necessary for the circulating fluid to be below 0degC in some parts of the plumbing. It's really rather hard to beat water for this. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:07:49 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:07:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <00bd01c4a42d$10c2c520$4501a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> References: <00bd01c4a42d$10c2c520$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Colin McGregor wrote: > Well, I expect mercury would fit that bill... Good heat conductivity and very dense, but in terms of heat capacity per kilogram, greatly inferior to water. > but it has it's own sets of > issues (like being toxic and that it can be absorbed through the skin)... Metallic mercury isn't readily absorbed through the skin, last I heard, although some mercury compounds are. The big hazard with metallic mercury is breathing the vapor. It's also rather expensive. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:13:28 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:13:28 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client Message-ID: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I am going to have to install win98. Here's the link to their site: http://www.edu.yorku.ca:8080/ClientDownloads/ Thanks for any suggestions. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:14:23 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:14:23 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096251263.7448.26.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Sun, 2004-09-26 at 22:07 -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > Metallic mercury isn't readily absorbed through the skin Correct. > although some mercury compounds are. Organic mercury is peculiarly toxic. A few drops of dimethyl mercury will go right through your skin and kill you the same day. > The big hazard with metallic mercury > is breathing the vapor. Yes, but that causes poisoning of the more slow/painful variety. Remember that if Nature has any rhyme or reason to it at all, there is a reason that water is cheap, useful, abundant, and the foundation of life as we know it. Austin (Chemistry Professor, Seneca College) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:19:38 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:19:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <4157629C.1010306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > for heat storage than good ole H20? Need to know more about the application. As a general-purpose heat transfer and heat storage fluid, it is *really* hard to beat water if you're working at a temperature it can handle. For quite fundamental reasons, its heat capacity is inordinately high compared to most other materials. There are excellent reasons why power plants use water/steam and not something more exotic. For lower temperatures, typically people add antifreeze of one kind or another -- glycols or salts -- to water. For higher temperatures, often they put water under pressure. If you want to store a lot of heat over a narrow temperature range, there are phase-change salts which soak up a lot of heat when melting and release it when freezing. Water does that too, and does it better, but has some annoying properties and only one choice of temperature. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:21:52 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:21:52 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <41577748.2020406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b204092619216e5e97f2@mail.gmail.com> My wife also just started at York, and I was delighted to see that First Class was still around, from its days as the signature Mac BBS software. I just did a quick search and it appears that there is no Linux client available. Before giving up on Linux though, have you tried Wine? I use Crossover Office and it's amazing. Cheers, Aaron. On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:13:28 -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is > taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a > web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's > an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I > am going to have to install win98. > > Here's the link to their site: > http://www.edu.yorku.ca:8080/ClientDownloads/ > > Thanks for any suggestions. > > John. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:22:56 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:22:56 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <41577748.2020406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1096251776.7448.29.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Sun, 2004-09-26 at 22:13 -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is > taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a > web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's > an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I > am going to have to install win98. Well, I'm a York science student, and we have to use SciFinder all the time. Of COURSE there's no cross-platform version. I tried installing it through wine and it failed. The secret for me was to install Win98, boot into win98, install scifinder, then boot back into linux, configure wine to use /mnt/windows as the windows root, and then scifinder ran perfectly. I use it all the time without any problems. Dunno... may help. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:36:19 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:36:19 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <41577748.2020406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040927023619.GB9914@smeagol> On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 10:13:28PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is > taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a > web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's > an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I > am going to have to install win98. I've always used the Web interface to FirstClass. Works just as well as the client. Whether that says good things or bad things about the client is another question altogether. ;) Do you know if she has a web interface available? emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:34:19 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:34:19 -0400 Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <20040927015641.4EF364001-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> <4155C461.8020209@rogers.com> <41576B3C.1000507@sympatico.ca> <20040927015641.4EF364001@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <41577C2B.4050906@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: >>Thanks, all. I found the old termcap entries, and it's definitely not >>EBCDIC, as it just understood ASCII with CRLFs. A venerable polymath >>of my acquaintance (Ted Harding -- mathematician, linguist, troff >>guru) has offered some additional help, so I think I'm set. > > > I really wouldn't have expected EBCDIC; that was only ever pushed by > IBM, and I'd be _really_ surprised to see EBCDIC hardware with a > Centronic parallel interface. I believe in the original message, he said it was an IBM printer and I don't recall mention of the connector. Incidentally, many moons ago, I used to support a system, built around a Datapoint 2200 terminal. This terminal had a CRT, keyboard and dual cassett drive. It connected to a serial line to a mainframe in Montreal, in EBCDIC, local printers in ASCII, remote printers in BAUDOT and a card punch & reader with Hollerith code. All this with only 16 K bytes of memory. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:38:49 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:38:49 -0400 Subject: OT: Weather stations In-Reply-To: <415770DB.5020703-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200409252020.28836.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <415770DB.5020703@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200409262238.50033.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 26 September 2004 21:46, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Systems that are cheap and can do the job include Davis Instruments > . I think that True North Power > in Lion's Head (near the big-ass wind > turbine on the Bruce Peninsula) are the local dealers. Thanks for the info. These look a little nicer on the price front than Campbell Scientific. Since I'm planning a trip to Tobermory next weekend I'll to stop at True North to see what they're up to. > If you want more accuracy and reliability, you'll have to go for > something custom from Campbell Scientific. These are absurdly expensive > (esp. considering that their loggers use 1970s microcontroller > technology), but they are good enough to produce bankable data for > building $100M wind farms. You probably don't need this. Nah super accuracy is not important, I'm just curious to build up some data on my environment. > I've heard you can use the Davis system with Linux. Here's just one > example: . http://www.weather-display.com/ claims to be selling software that runs on Linux or Windows for $65. I prefer to just talk to my serial port ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:43:03 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:43:03 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <20040927023619.GB9914@smeagol> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> <20040927023619.GB9914@smeagol> Message-ID: <41577E37.4020608@sympatico.ca> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: >On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 10:13:28PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > > >>Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is >>taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a >>web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's >>an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I >>am going to have to install win98. >> >> > >I've always used the Web interface to FirstClass. Works just as well as >the client. Whether that says good things or bad things about the client >is another question altogether. ;) Do you know if she has a web interface >available? > >emma > > > I don't know if she has a web interface available. One of the reasons she is suppose to use the client is for conferencing. I don't suppose the web client would help with that. John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:45:01 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:45:01 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204092619216e5e97f2-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b204092619216e5e97f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41577EAD.5090805@sympatico.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: >My wife also just started at York, and I was delighted to see that >First Class was still around, from its days as the signature Mac BBS >software. I just did a quick search and it appears that there is no >Linux client available. Before giving up on Linux though, have you >tried Wine? I use Crossover Office and it's amazing. > >Cheers, >Aaron. > > I haven't tried it with Wine, but maybe it's the excuse I've been looking for to buy Crossover Office. > >On Sun, 26 Sep 2004 22:13:28 -0400, Moniz Family > wrote: > > >>Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is >>taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a >>web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's >>an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I >>am going to have to install win98. >> >>Here's the link to their site: >>http://www.edu.yorku.ca:8080/ClientDownloads/ >> >>Thanks for any suggestions. >> >> >> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 02:45:19 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:45:19 +1000 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <1096251776.7448.29.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> <1096251776.7448.29.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <200409271245.19233.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Monday 27 September 2004 12:22, Austin wrote: > The secret for me was to install Win98, boot into win98, install > scifinder, then boot back into linux, configure wine to use /mnt/windows > as the windows root, and then scifinder ran perfectly. I use it all the > time without any problems. Have you seen Bochs? it's a x86 Emulator, and you can install, say, windows and have it run in a window, under X11... if you follow my drift. http://bochs.sourceforge.net/ -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 03:17:22 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:17:22 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet - (long and twisty with links) Message-ID: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> In my ongoing personal quest to tame the organizational tiger, I am attempting to re-create that indespensible film production tool: the callsheet. For at least a decade, I have wished I could wake up to a freshly printed and personal callsheet, that's totaly script driven, and I /almost/ have it working ! I'm planning to sourceforge it as soon as it's near useable) and have registered callsheet.ca just in hopes of expanding to a comprehensive production service site (someday, but that's another story). The hardware: a PIII500 w. 512m RAM and an HP2100M laserjet (that I just got) via parallel. The software: Mandrake 10.0, bash, scat, a perl weather script and another for sunrise/set. My PIM data is palm pilot centric, using pilot-link, jpilot, and some handy pilot CLI tools; pclt. HTML is the intermediate browsable format and postscript, mighty postscript is to be the engine that brings this thing to the page, thanks to txt2html and html2ps and psutils. The challenges; to cull data from the pilot and the web (working, could improve) transform that data into an html page with navigation to other pages and then to ps for print (working, could use a lot of improvements) and what should be the easy part; printing the the resulting callsheet.ps 2up, manualy duplexed (flipped over) has proven elusive ! I Q#1 if a2ps is the heart of the psutils, shouldn't my a2ps-site.cgf have something about the HP2100M laserjet, rather than "unknown printer" ? where would I get the right printer config file/ data ? Q#2 if I want to print out in a boolet form, 2up, I think I should use the psutils but in what order ? a2ps filename.ps | psnup -2up | psbook -s4 | psmandup _ lpr ??? or what ? I can't seem to find a working sequence. Q#3 I am starting to /get/ the concept of virtual printers, and would love to just fire ant ps document at "printer.callsheet" or whatever. Is there an painless way to set that up ? Has anyone got a handle on this ps stuff ? Thanks a bunch ! djp -- mdk http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en-us/ bash http://tldp.org/LDP/abs/html/index.html scat (it's not poo !) http://shellcat.sourceforge.net/ex.html weather (thanks Scott) http://search.cpan.org/CPAN/authors/id/M/MN/MNAGUIB/Weather-Underground-2.19.tar.gz sunwait http://www.risacher.org/sunwait/ pilot-link http://pilot-link.org/ jpilot http://www.jpilot.org/ pclt http://cubicle.at/en/pclt/ postscript http://www.cs.indiana.edu/docproject/programming/postscript/postscript.html txt2html http://txt2html.sourceforge.net/ html2ps http://user.it.uu.se/~jan/html2ps.html psutils http://www.go.dlr.de:8081/pdinfo_dv/psutils.html -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 03:25:13 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:25:13 -0400 Subject: OT: Weather stations In-Reply-To: <200409252020.28836.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200409252020.28836.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1096255512.2800.100.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Sat, 2004-09-25 at 20:20, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Just read the weather script thread. It got me curious ... The one that seems very active (linux software wise) is OWW http://melhuish.info/simon/projects/oww/ djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 03:46:14 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2004 23:46:14 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <4157629C.1010306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040927034614.GA1012@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 08:45:16PM -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > Greetings, > > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > for heat storage than good ole H20? Not sure about the specific heat number, but how about oil (motor oil, cooking oil)? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 04:14:45 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:14:45 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet - what's a callsheet ? In-Reply-To: <1096255042.2800.96.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1096258484.2800.139.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Callsheets. After 20+ years on a around movie sets, it's easy to forget that not everyone knows what one is. It's like an agenda, a fresh contact list, a weather bullitin, and handy checklist, and the latest production news all rolled up into one or two printed pages. The good ones have a comic on it, too. The best part about this essential document is that there's a whole department (the ADs) dedicated to making it happen and putting one in your hand at wrap time. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 04:49:53 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 00:49:53 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <4157629C.1010306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41579BF1.2060503@rogers.com> > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > for heat storage than good ole H20? No application, just curious. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 13:01:49 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:01:49 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <41577EAD.5090805-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b204092619216e5e97f2@mail.gmail.com> <41577EAD.5090805@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41580F3D.9080509@rogers.com> Moniz Family wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > >> My wife also just started at York, and I was delighted to see that >> First Class was still around, from its days as the signature Mac BBS >> software. I just did a quick search and it appears that there is no >> Linux client available. Before giving up on Linux though, have you >> tried Wine? I use Crossover Office and it's amazing. >> >> Cheers, >> Aaron. >> >> > I haven't tried it with Wine May I suggest a nice dry red? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 13:09:48 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:09:48 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <20040927034614.GA1012-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <20040927034614.GA1012@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4158111C.8070203@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 08:45:16PM -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > >>Greetings, >> >>Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably >>liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity >>for heat storage than good ole H20? > > > Not sure about the specific heat number, but how about oil (motor oil, > cooking oil)? > As I recall, the advantage of oil, was the ability to withstand temperature and to lubricate. In auto engines, the oil cools the hot spots and moves the heat to a location, where the water/glycol can cool it. But I believe the oil doesn't hold as much heat as water, at the same temperature. In automatic transmissions and some aircraft engines, the oil is used to both lubricate and cool, without using water/glycol. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 13:18:40 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 09:18:40 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet - (long and twisty with links) In-Reply-To: <1096255042.2800.96.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040927131840.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 11:17:22PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > In my ongoing personal quest to tame the organizational tiger, I am > attempting to re-create that indespensible film production tool: the > callsheet. For at least a decade, I have wished I could wake up to a > freshly printed and personal callsheet, that's totaly script driven, and > I /almost/ have it working ! I'm planning to sourceforge it as soon as > it's near useable) and have registered callsheet.ca just in hopes of > expanding to a comprehensive production service site (someday, but > that's another story). > The hardware: a PIII500 w. 512m RAM and an HP2100M laserjet (that I > just got) via parallel. > The software: Mandrake 10.0, bash, scat, a perl weather script and > another for sunrise/set. > My PIM data is palm pilot centric, using pilot-link, jpilot, and some > handy pilot CLI tools; pclt. > HTML is the intermediate browsable format and postscript, mighty > postscript is to be the engine that brings this thing to the page, > thanks to txt2html and html2ps and psutils. > The challenges; to cull data from the pilot and the web (working, could > improve) transform that data into an html page with navigation to other > pages and then to ps for print (working, could use a lot of > improvements) and what should be the easy part; printing the the > resulting callsheet.ps 2up, manualy duplexed (flipped over) has proven > elusive ! I I thought scripting document layout and such was the job for tex/LaTeX. Makes very nice ps output too. > > Q#1 > if a2ps is the heart of the psutils, shouldn't my a2ps-site.cgf have > something about the HP2100M laserjet, rather than "unknown printer" ? > where would I get the right printer config file/ data ? I have never needed to change the a2ps config, as long as the systemwide paper size and such is set to the right defaults. > Q#2 > if I want to print out in a boolet form, 2up, I think I should use the > psutils but in what order ? > a2ps filename.ps | psnup -2up | psbook -s4 | psmandup _ lpr ??? > or what ? I can't seem to find a working sequence. I thought by default a2ps printed it directly, it doesn't send to stdout. It also has support for n-up and duplex and all right in it, so you probably don't need any of those other tools. If on the other hand you do want to use those other tools, you have to convince a2ps to send to stdout rather than default printer. > Q#3 > I am starting to /get/ the concept of virtual printers, and would love > to just fire ant ps document at "printer.callsheet" or whatever. Is > there an painless way to set that up ? Well I tend to find that with cupsys most of the time I can just print a postscript file and it comes out right (As long as the postscript had large enough margins to fit on the printer). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 14:29:01 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:29:01 -0400 Subject: Exchange Connector + Clie + Groupware Message-ID: <1096295341.19155.5.camel@localhost> I would like to use a server-based groupware package that would allow me to access contact information, tasks, and calendars from wherever I may be. Furthermore, I would like to use evolution as my main client, but would also like access via a web interface. Finally, I would like to also maintain the information on my Sony Clie. This device must be able to sync against the main data. Has anyone had success implementing this sort of arrangement. If so, what tools did you use? Cheers, Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 14:36:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 10:36:39 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <41577748.2020406-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040927143639.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 10:13:28PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is > taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a > web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's > an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I > am going to have to install win98. > > Here's the link to their site: > http://www.edu.yorku.ca:8080/ClientDownloads/ How about the webct stuff York uses? Do they have a Linux client for that? They sure seem to be very Mac/Windows only at York. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 12:50:13 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 08:50:13 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet - (long and twisty with links) In-Reply-To: <1096255042.2800.96.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41580C85.7090003@sympatico.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > > Has anyone got a handle on this ps stuff ? In a past life, I was a prepress systems hack. Ah, the joys of finding the error in 8GB of PostScript ... > Q#1 > if a2ps is the heart of the psutils is it? By psutils, I tend to mean the specific package by Angus Duggan of Harlequin Systems. > shouldn't my a2ps-site.cgf have > something about the HP2100M laserjet, rather than "unknown printer" ? > where would I get the right printer config file/ data ? Not unless your HP2100M does something especially unusual for a PostScript printer. Most Unix printing utilities treat postscript as generic. > Q#2 > if I want to print out in a boolet form, 2up, I think I should use the > psutils but in what order ? > a2ps filename.ps | psnup -2up | psbook -s4 | psmandup _ lpr ??? > or what ? I can't seem to find a working sequence. Doesn't a2ps convert ASCII to PostScript? Unless you want to print the source to your PostScript, you might not want to do this. The way I'd do it (from memory, away from a system with psutils) would be something like: psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -o | lp (flip the paper stack and reload it) psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -e | lp I can't remember if the e and o options to psselect are okay -- I want to select odd, then even, pages. You might have to drop a '-r' in the psselect line to reverse the order if your printer stacks pages in reverse order. > Q#3 > I am starting to /get/ the concept of virtual printers, and would love > to just fire ant ps document at "printer.callsheet" or whatever. Is > there an painless way to set that up ? You could, but it's all dependent on the printing system you use. I'd just stick with a script. If you are printing HTML to PS, you might find htmldoc to be more useful. It'll be quicker, at the very least. It may even do the n-up stuff you need. If this becomes more than a proof-of-concept, you really want a real duplex printer. I've seen refurbed HPIIIsi's with duplexer for not very much, and they are very tough machines. Don't touch the cheapo (panasonic?) one you can get in Staples -- there are no linux drivers. Sounds like an interesting project. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 16:01:27 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:01:27 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <4158111C.8070203-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <20040927034614.GA1012@node1.opengeometry.net> <4158111C.8070203@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> Quoting James Knott : > William Park wrote: > > On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 08:45:16PM -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > > > >>Greetings, > >> > >>Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably > >>liquid, that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity > >>for heat storage than good ole H20? > > > > > > Not sure about the specific heat number, but how about oil (motor oil, > > cooking oil)? > > > > As I recall, the advantage of oil, was the ability to withstand > temperature and to lubricate. In auto engines, the oil cools the hot > spots and moves the heat to a location, where the water/glycol can cool > it. But I believe the oil doesn't hold as much heat as water, at the > same temperature. In automatic transmissions and some aircraft engines, > the oil is used to both lubricate and cool, without using water/glycol. > Here is the thermal capacity top 3: 1.H2 2.liquid ammonia 3.H20 Oil keeps two times less heat than water. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 16:08:12 2004 From: linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Alwin Raymundo) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:08:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: suse 9.1 pro Message-ID: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, If someone have experience installing suse 9.1 pro on athlon 64. I do have the 5 CD. But when I trying to install it on CD1 it says I should be using the 64 bit version. When I went to some site they said that try using the CD2 because it has the 64 bit installation. Is this true? Any help would be highly appreciated. Thanks again. --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 16:28:03 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:28:03 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <1096300887.4158395767e0b-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <20040927034614.GA1012@node1.opengeometry.net> <4158111C.8070203@rogers.com> <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <41583F93.3010805@rogers.com> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Here is the thermal capacity top 3: > 1.H2 > 2.liquid ammonia > 3.H20 > > Oil keeps two times less heat than water. So, it's settled then. We all convert our cars, to cool with ammonia. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 16:30:36 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:30:36 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <20040927160812.64908.qmail-r5Q8Hg/W7ASA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4158402C.4010900@rogers.com> Alwin Raymundo wrote: > Hi Guys, > > If someone have experience installing suse 9.1 pro on athlon 64. I do > have the 5 CD. But when I trying to install it on CD1 it says I should > be using the 64 bit version. > > When I went to some site they said that try using the CD2 because it has > the 64 bit installation. Is this true? > > Any help would be highly appreciated. Unless I'm mistaken (yeah, I know, unlikely, but it has happended once or twice ), you have to install the 64 bit version from the "B" side of the DVD. It's not on the CDs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 16:33:12 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:33:12 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <20040927160812.64908.qmail-r5Q8Hg/W7ASA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <415840C8.6020001@detachednetworks.ca> Alwin Raymundo wrote: > Hi Guys, > > If someone have experience installing suse 9.1 pro on athlon 64. I do > have the 5 CD. But when I trying to install it on CD1 it says I > should be using the 64 bit version. > > When I went to some site they said that try using the CD2 because it > has the 64 bit installation. Is this true? > > Any help would be highly appreciated. > > Thanks again. > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Post your free ad now! *Yahoo! Canada Personals* > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&forumid=1&threadid=217514 The Cd 1 is a 32 bit intallation and for starting by cd2 is 64 + MB2,88 boot capability. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 16:44:04 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:44:04 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet - (long and twisty with links) In-Reply-To: <41580C85.7090003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <41580C85.7090003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1096303444.2634.7.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 08:50, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > > > Has anyone got a handle on this ps stuff ? > > In a past life, I was a prepress systems hack. Ah, the joys of finding > the error in 8GB of PostScript ... > > > Q#1 > > if a2ps is the heart of the psutils > > is it? By psutils, I tend to mean the specific package by Angus Duggan > of Harlequin Systems. Me too, while they may be from different sources, they are almost always mentioned together. > > Doesn't a2ps convert ASCII to PostScript? Unless you want to print the > source to your PostScript, you might not want to do this. Nope ! That's "anything"2ps, ascii, html, tex (I think) other ps etc. > > The way I'd do it (from memory, away from a system with psutils) would > be something like: > > psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -o | lp > (flip the paper stack and reload it) > psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -e | lp I'll give that a shot. > If you are printing HTML to PS, you might find htmldoc to be more > useful. It'll be quicker, at the very least. It may even do the n-up > stuff you need. I've used it in the past, the gui that is, I'll experiment with the CLI. > > If this becomes more than a proof-of-concept, you really want a real > duplex printer. yeah, well ya work with what ya got ;-) > > Sounds like an interesting project. Thanks! Even the badly formatted prototype pages are proving very useful. The ultimate end goal is to have the days core info at hand, without the need to go to the box untill evening, when I will input the days new items and changes. During the day the palm is the active platform. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 16:53:40 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:53:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <41583F93.3010805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41583F93.3010805@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > > Here is the thermal capacity top 3: > > 1.H2 > > 2.liquid ammonia > > 3.H20 > > So, it's settled then. We all convert our cars, to cool with ammonia. ;-) Unfortunately, ammonia isn't *much* better than water, not enough to make up for its various disadvantages like toxicity... Hydrogen is, but it has its own problems. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 17:10:18 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:10:18 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <415840C8.6020001-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> <415840C8.6020001@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <4158497A.7010404@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > Alwin Raymundo wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> >> If someone have experience installing suse 9.1 pro on athlon 64. I do >> have the 5 CD. But when I trying to install it on CD1 it says I >> should be using the 64 bit version. >> >> When I went to some site they said that try using the CD2 because it >> has the 64 bit installation. Is this true? > > > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&forumid=1&threadid=217514 > > > The Cd 1 is a 32 bit intallation and for starting by cd2 is 64 + MB2,88 > boot capability. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Currious. In my boxed set, the 64 bit install is on the flip side of the DVD. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 17:14:49 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:14:49 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41584A89.7080309@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > >>>Here is the thermal capacity top 3: >>>1.H2 >>>2.liquid ammonia >>>3.H20 >> >>So, it's settled then. We all convert our cars, to cool with ammonia. ;-) > > > Unfortunately, ammonia isn't *much* better than water, not enough to make > up for its various disadvantages like toxicity... > > Hydrogen is, but it has its own problems. Then again, if you *REALLY* want to cool something, it's tough to beat liquid helium. It's non-toxic too. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 17:20:32 2004 From: linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Alwin Raymundo) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:20:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <4158497A.7010404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4158497A.7010404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040927172032.78932.qmail@web41409.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Guys, Thanks for the response. I do have only cds not dvd. Alwin Raymundo James Knott wrote: Jason Shein wrote: > Alwin Raymundo wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> >> If someone have experience installing suse 9.1 pro on athlon 64. I do >> have the 5 CD. But when I trying to install it on CD1 it says I >> should be using the 64 bit version. >> >> When I went to some site they said that try using the CD2 because it >> has the 64 bit installation. Is this true? > > > http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&forumid=1&threadid=217514 > > > The Cd 1 is a 32 bit intallation and for starting by cd2 is 64 + MB2,88 > boot capability. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Currious. In my boxed set, the 64 bit install is on the flip side of the DVD. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 17:39:22 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:39:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <41584A89.7080309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41584A89.7080309@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, James Knott wrote: > > Unfortunately, ammonia isn't *much* better than water... > > Hydrogen is, but it has its own problems. > > Then again, if you *REALLY* want to cool something, it's tough to beat > liquid helium. It's non-toxic too. ;-) Alas, while enough liquid helium gets things very cold, it's not actually a very *good* coolant -- its heat capacity is quite small. (That's one of the reasons why making it and keeping it is hard: it doesn't take much of a heat leak to boil it.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 17:41:50 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 13:41:50 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <41584A89.7080309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41584A89.7080309@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040927174150.GA2503@seahorse> On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 01:14:49PM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Then again, if you *REALLY* want to cool something, it's tough to beat > liquid helium. It's non-toxic too. ;-) Non-toxic if it isn't displacing all the air in your lungs. :) Superconducting magnets used in high field (10-20 Tesla) magnetic resonance spectrometers are in a dewar of liquid helium (~4 kelvin) which in turn is in a dewar of liquid nitrogen (~70 kelvin). Just don't be in the same room when the magnet quenches (heats up and boils off all the LH and LN2 -> room fills with non-breathable gas -> R.I.P.) Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 18:03:24 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:03:24 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet - (long and twisty with links) In-Reply-To: <41580C85.7090003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <41580C85.7090003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1096308204.2634.17.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 08:50, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -o | lp > (flip the paper stack and reload it) > psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -e | lp Besides kicking out a blank page to start with, that was as close as I've been to the desired effect ! Thank you ! Now, I have 4 (virtual) pages of content, but I don't know how to delgate specific content to specific pages (it all runs together, at the moment) Should I create 4 ps files (eg. pg1.ps, pg2.ps, pg3.ps, pg4.ps) and pipe them, in the correct order, or is there a page break code I can embed in my (html) source files ? ( I tried , but is doesn't seem to do a thing) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 18:46:22 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 14:46:22 -0400 Subject: Fedora Core 2 smbfs Message-ID: Hi All, I have been looking for an answer to this question... I just upgraded my system to fedora core 2. I have noticed that smbfs isn't the way to mount smb shares anymore. From what I can tell, this new protocol CIFS is taking over. The problem here is that the parameter UID is ignored now so I can't mount the share as a user on the local machine. Instead, the UID is set the username (well, it's ID) of the owner of the share on the remote host. How can I get aroud this problem? I want to be able to mount the share either by allowing mount to be run by anyone (not a good idea i've been told) or have some alternative way to specify the uid of the share. Any ideas? Thanks Martin _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 01:18:40 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:18:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: retrocomputing: driving 'miss' daisywheel In-Reply-To: <41576B3C.1000507-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41558C57.70409@sympatico.ca> <4155C461.8020209@rogers.com> <41576B3C.1000507@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Thanks, all. I found the old termcap entries, and it's definitely not EBCDIC, > as it just understood ASCII with CRLFs. A venerable polymath of my > acquaintance (Ted Harding -- mathematician, linguist, troff guru) has offered > some additional help, so I think I'm set. > > The two biggest problems: > > * my distro considers parallel to be a 'legacy device', which you have to > build in support in the kernel. Try 'modprobe lp' if it works you are set. For missing characters, find out if your machine can backspace and if yes write a script to generate the missing chars from other chars by overprinting. F.ex. a left curly brace can be made from a minus and a left round brace and an asterisk from -^H/^H\ (3 chars, 2 backspaces). At sign is capital O and overprint with lowercase a. A passable Euro sign is made from a capital C overprinted with =. You figure out the rest. Admittedly it is ugly but it is better than missing signs that lead to confusion. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 01:33:24 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:33:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <1096300887.4158395767e0b-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <20040927034614.GA1012@node1.opengeometry.net> <4158111C.8070203@rogers.com> <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Here is the thermal capacity top 3: > 1.H2 > 2.liquid ammonia > 3.H20 > > Oil keeps two times less heat than water. Do you have a reference ? I think He2 is #2 (and that special liquid He probably beats all in that list). The op asked for a liquid (at stp I presume). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 01:12:15 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:12:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy... In-Reply-To: <415766E0.8050802-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <415766E0.8050802@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sep 2004, John McGregor wrote: >> Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably liquid, >> that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity for heat >> storage than good ole H20? > > Yes, Glycol. It is the liquid of choice for heat exchangers. You mean ethylene glycol ? It is toxic among other things. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 01:11:08 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:11:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <4157629C.1010306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 26 Sep 2004, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > Greetings, > > Does anyone on the list know if there is any substance, preferably liquid, > that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity for heat > storage than good ole H20? Salt water for example (not necessarily NaCl). Water is hard to beat for heat capacity. F.ex. the 'batteries' for use in portable cooler boxes contain a concentrated solution of salts. Those make a fairly good start 'as is' althoough they won't like a lot of heat (certainly less than 100 degrees C). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 19:37:57 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 15:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Sep 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > that holds heat energy more readily and has a higher capacity for heat > > storage than good ole H20? > > Salt water for example (not necessarily NaCl). Typically has slightly less heat capacity than straight water, although there may be exceptions to that. The point of the salt is to extend the usable temperature range downward, not to increase heat capacity. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 20:36:21 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:36:21 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router Message-ID: <1096317381.2634.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 20:38:12 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:38:12 -0400 Subject: AMD Opteron based server to buy in GTA area. Message-ID: <41587A34.3080303@deeptown.org> Hollo everybody, My client wants to make his PBX with 4 or 8 PRI trunks, and I recommended to install Asterisk and to buy Digium TDM cards to handle that 4 or 8 PRI trunks. The client wants to use as minimum traffic and bandwidth as possible ( because they will have too many phone lines [ 92 to 184 lines ]), and want to buy only one server to handle all this stuff. I recommended them to use G729 codec (to use VoIP to their other locations), and AMD Opteron based server, but I cannot find any company who is selling such servers in 2U or 4U form factor + extended warranty. I am looking who is building the AMD Opteron based servers ( 1U, 2U, 4U form factor size ). I called for quotes to IBM and Dell, IBM is quite expensive and not provides extended warranty for that specific model ( extended warranty means - same day to fix or replace in case if it broke ), and Dell stick only with Intel products. Can you tell me if Intel Xeon + E64MT is equal to AMD Opteron, or Itanium 2 is equal to Opteron? Or may be you can recommend me something else? All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 20:42:59 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:42:59 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router In-Reply-To: <1096317381.2634.22.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1096317381.2634.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:36:21 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. > Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on > College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. > Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price > ? The LinkSys WRT54G gets rather good reviews, particularly from the linux front. (this may have something to do with the fact that the router runs linux internally) Sveasoft provides some custom firmware: http://www.sveasoft.com/ There's even a sourceforge project: https://sourceforge.net/projects/wifi-box/ Or how about just installing a userland to play with: http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html Currently selling for $85: http://www.canadacomputers.com/networking2.html#wir -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 20:52:04 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:52:04 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <200409271652.04981.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 27 September 2004 21:33, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Here is the thermal capacity top 3: > > 1.H2 > > 2.liquid ammonia > > 3.H20 > > > > Oil keeps two times less heat than water. > > Do you have a reference ? I think He2 is #2 (and that special liquid He > probably beats all in that list). The op asked for a liquid (at stp I > presume). There's also D20 ("heavy water") it's higher than 3 but not sure where it is in relation to 1 and 2. Of course pure D2O is likely hard to come by ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 20:55:10 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:55:10 -0400 Subject: AMD Opteron based server to buy in GTA area. In-Reply-To: <41587A34.3080303-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <41587A34.3080303@deeptown.org> Message-ID: <20040927205510.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 04:38:12PM -0400, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > My client wants to make his PBX with 4 or 8 PRI trunks, > and I recommended to install Asterisk and to buy Digium TDM cards > to handle that 4 or 8 PRI trunks. > The client wants to use as minimum traffic and bandwidth as possible > ( because they will have too many phone lines [ 92 to 184 lines ]), > and want to buy only one server to handle all this stuff. > > I recommended them to use G729 codec (to use VoIP to their > other locations), and AMD Opteron based server, > but I cannot find any company who is selling such servers > in 2U or 4U form factor + extended warranty. Hmm, I have no idea what level of cpu is required to run those codecs. > I am looking who is building the AMD Opteron based servers > ( 1U, 2U, 4U form factor size ). I called for quotes to IBM and Dell, > IBM is quite expensive and not provides extended warranty for that > specific model ( extended warranty means - same day to fix or replace > in case if it broke ), and Dell stick only with Intel products. Well you could look in Linux Journal and see if any of the many opteron adds are from a company able to supply such support, or you buy two and have one as a backup machine. Nothing quite as good as being self sufficient. > Can you tell me if Intel Xeon + E64MT is equal to AMD Opteron, > or Itanium 2 is equal to Opteron? Or may be you can recommend me > something else? Neither has the same level of performance as the Opteron. Both also cost more. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 20:57:20 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:57:20 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router In-Reply-To: <1096317381.2634.22.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1096317381.2634.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040927205720.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 04:36:21PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. > Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on > College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. > Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price I picked up a USR8054 for $95-$50cdn rebate a few weeks ago, and no problem configuring it from mozilla firefox. I only use it as an AP thought, since I want to be the router. Seems to work fine, and with the latest beta firmware does WPA as well as WEP encryption. Hasn't crashed yet. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 21:06:46 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:06:46 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <200409271652.04981.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> <200409271652.04981.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <415880E6.8060604@rogers.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Monday 27 September 2004 21:33, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > >>>Here is the thermal capacity top 3: >>>1.H2 >>>2.liquid ammonia >>>3.H20 >>> >>>Oil keeps two times less heat than water. >> >>Do you have a reference ? I think He2 is #2 (and that special liquid He >>probably beats all in that list). The op asked for a liquid (at stp I >>presume). > > > There's also D20 ("heavy water") it's higher than 3 but not sure where it is > in relation to 1 and 2. Of course pure D2O is likely hard to come by ;-) > No it's not. All you need is some hydrogen sulfide and a few separation towers. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 21:43:07 2004 From: jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org (John Sellens) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 17:43:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: AMD Opteron based server to buy in GTA area. Message-ID: <200409272143.i8RLh7QR060974@localhost.generalconcepts.com> | Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:38:12 -0400 | From: Sergey Kuznetsov | | Hollo everybody, | | My client wants to make his PBX with 4 or 8 PRI trunks, | and I recommended to install Asterisk and to buy Digium TDM cards | to handle that 4 or 8 PRI trunks. | The client wants to use as minimum traffic and bandwidth as possible | ( because they will have too many phone lines [ 92 to 184 lines ]), | and want to buy only one server to handle all this stuff. You've likely already told your client this, but that doesn't sound like the most reliable (or likely cost effective) approach to me. One box to handle 8 PRIs to G729? Seems like you would need a big big box to do that. (I assume you've looked at some of the sizing hints on voip-info.org? If not, let me know and I'll send you some pointers.) And of course, multiple smaller boxes mean that you don't necessarily need same day repair, which lowers costs. And when it's time for a software upgrade, you don't have to stop *everything*. I would think you'll get the best bang for buck and best reliabilty by going with two boxes, each with a 4 port T1 card. Cheers! John (who of course happens to be a happy Digium/Asterisk vendor) jsellens-Iv5KO+h6AVB+Y12zHexnB0EOCMrvLtNR at public.gmane.org / jsellens-dzygobQwvTvQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 23:04:50 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:04:50 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <4158497A.7010404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> <415840C8.6020001@detachednetworks.ca> <4158497A.7010404@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41589C92.5090505@rogers.com> > Currious. In my boxed set, the 64 bit install is on the flip side of > the DVD. Likewise with my set. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 23:06:00 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:06:00 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <20040927172032.78932.qmail-nOFJhEd5NCyA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927172032.78932.qmail@web41409.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41589CD8.6070905@rogers.com> > Thanks for the response. I do have only cds not dvd. That ain't right; it comes on 2 DVDs and something like 5 or 6 CDs. Either you got a pirate copy, or someone cheated you and didn't give you the DVDs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 23:25:18 2004 From: jamiil_abdulahii_alkadir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jamiil) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:25:18 -0700 Subject: : Message-ID: Can some one please unsubscribe me from this list? TIA -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 23:56:27 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 19:56:27 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet - (long and twisty with links) In-Reply-To: <1096308204.2634.17.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <41580C85.7090003@sympatico.ca> <1096308204.2634.17.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4158A8AB.8060607@sympatico.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > > Nope ! That's "anything"2ps, ascii, html, tex (I think) other ps etc. Argh, I hate it when there's a name clash between two very different programs. >>psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -o | lp >>(flip the paper stack and reload it) >>psbook -s4 filename.ps | psnup -2 | psselect -e | lp > > Besides kicking out a blank page to start with, that was as close as > I've been to the desired effect ! Thank you ! It might be an idea to dbug your output with gv or ghostview. Saves a load of paper, and you might be able to snip off a page at the right time. > Should I create 4 ps files (eg. pg1.ps, pg2.ps, pg3.ps, pg4.ps) and pipe > them, in the correct order PostScript doesn't concatenate well. I have a tool that'll do it, under certain circumstances. (After all, PS is a full and complete programming language. How many programs work properly when you join a bunch of their source files together?) > or is there a page break code I can embed in > my (html) source files ? There's a CSS directive that will do it:
or
I prefer to put sections I want to keep together in one page inside:
...
which most browsers will honour, within reason. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Sep 27 22:31:16 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 18:31:16 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: <415880E6.8060604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> <200409271652.04981.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <415880E6.8060604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <415894B4.8010604@sympatico.ca> James Knott wrote: > > No it's not. All you need is some hydrogen sulfide and a few separation > towers. ;-) Anyway, Canada's got a veritable lake of D2O, as an offshoot of the Candu program. The large neutrino detector deep below Sudbury is part filled with heavy water. Don't know how well disposed they'd be to you turning up with a Nalgene and a syphon tube, tho'. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 02:03:45 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2004 22:03:45 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <41589CD8.6070905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927172032.78932.qmail@web41409.mail.yahoo.com> <41589CD8.6070905@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4158C681.5000108@rogers.com> Byron L. Sonne wrote: >> Thanks for the response. I do have only cds not dvd. > > > That ain't right; it comes on 2 DVDs and something like 5 or 6 CDs. > Either you got a pirate copy, or someone cheated you and didn't give you > the DVDs. "Pirated" is a bit harsh, considering that you can give away copies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 04:46:33 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 00:46:33 -0400 Subject: [Administrivia] TLUG's mailserver has no rDNS Message-ID: <20040928044633.GA11911@m450> Up until Friday the list's email came from 206.108.5.1. Then it started coming from 206.108.5.40. Here's a quick scan of 206.108.5.0/24 1.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer dsl.ss.org. 7.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer atlas.iplink.net. 10.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer gw.cek.com. 14.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer mail.gredico.ca. 17.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer mail.cottonreel.com. 22.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer ns.wenzel.net. 26.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer cscan.ca. 29.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer mail.sources.com. 57.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa domain name pointer gw.cmmxyz.com. Oops, nothing for 40.5.108.206.in-addr.arpa. Because my blocking rules reject email from machines with zip/zilch/nada rDNS, I started seeing a marked reduction in the size of my daily mailspool. I figured something was wrong and checked my logfiles. Seeing all the rejects, I whitelisted ss.org as "MAIL FROM:". For obvious reasons, the rDNS whitelisting no longer works. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 05:12:01 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:12:01 -0400 Subject: : In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4158F2A1.5060408@rogers.com> > Can some one please unsubscribe me from this list? Why? Have you forgotten how to do it? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 05:14:52 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 01:14:52 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <4158C681.5000108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927172032.78932.qmail@web41409.mail.yahoo.com> <41589CD8.6070905@rogers.com> <4158C681.5000108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4158F34C.5030304@rogers.com> > "Pirated" is a bit harsh, considering that you can give away copies. True, but I meant the kinda thing where someone up in Markham is running off dupes, firing up a colour laster printer and offering a CD bundle without manuals, etc. and pretending that it's official branded SuSE product. Counterfit is probably the word I was going for. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 12:37:40 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:37:40 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router In-Reply-To: References: <1096317381.2634.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040928123740.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 04:42:59PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:36:21 -0400, David J Patrick > wrote: > > I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. > > Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on > > College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. > > Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price > > ? > > The LinkSys WRT54G gets rather good reviews, particularly from the linux > front. (this may have something to do with the fact that the router runs linux > internally) My parents (non wireless) linksys crashes about once a week, so so far I am not impressed by them. I wonder if they have unofficial firmware that makes them more stable. > Sveasoft provides some custom firmware: > http://www.sveasoft.com/ > > There's even a sourceforge project: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/wifi-box/ > > Or how about just installing a userland to play with: > http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html > > Currently selling for $85: > http://www.canadacomputers.com/networking2.html#wir I should go check if they have stuff for the non wireless model then. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 12:50:53 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:50:53 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <41589C92.5090505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> <415840C8.6020001@detachednetworks.ca> <4158497A.7010404@rogers.com> <41589C92.5090505@rogers.com> Message-ID: <08298717-114D-11D9-B27C-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Sep 27, 2004, at 7:04 PM, Byron L. Sonne wrote: >> Currious. In my boxed set, the 64 bit install is on the flip side of >> the DVD. > > Likewise with my set. Vaguely related...I noticed at the UofT bookstore that there were 'full' and 'update' boxes for 9.1 Pro. I couldn't see anything on the update version box that described any differences; nor could I see what version one needed to be running in order for the update to be valid. (On the SuSE site I see that the update box has only one manual, but there too I don't see any details about how 'update' is being defined.) Anyone here know? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 13:24:48 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:24:48 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <08298717-114D-11D9-B27C-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> <415840C8.6020001@detachednetworks.ca> <4158497A.7010404@rogers.com> <41589C92.5090505@rogers.com> <08298717-114D-11D9-B27C-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <41596620.5080600@rogers.com> phil wrote: > On Sep 27, 2004, at 7:04 PM, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > >>> Currious. In my boxed set, the 64 bit install is on the flip side of >>> the DVD. >> >> >> Likewise with my set. > > > Vaguely related...I noticed at the UofT bookstore that there were 'full' > and 'update' boxes for 9.1 Pro. I couldn't see anything on the update > version box that described any differences; nor could I see what version > one needed to be running in order for the update to be valid. (On the > SuSE site I see that the update box has only one manual, but there too I > don't see any details about how 'update' is being defined.) Other than the manual, I don't believe there is any difference. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 13:36:31 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 09:36:31 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router In-Reply-To: <20040928123740.GF8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1096317381.2634.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040928123740.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <415968DF.1030207@deeptown.org> My WRT54G is crashing almost once a day or two. I will update the firmware, may be it will help. All the Best! Sergey. Lennart Sorensen wrote: >On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 04:42:59PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > > >>On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:36:21 -0400, David J Patrick >> wrote: >> >> >>>I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. >>>Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on >>>College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. >>>Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price >>>? >>> >>> >>The LinkSys WRT54G gets rather good reviews, particularly from the linux >>front. (this may have something to do with the fact that the router runs linux >>internally) >> >> > >My parents (non wireless) linksys crashes about once a week, so so far I >am not impressed by them. I wonder if they have unofficial firmware >that makes them more stable. > > > >>Sveasoft provides some custom firmware: >>http://www.sveasoft.com/ >> >>There's even a sourceforge project: >>https://sourceforge.net/projects/wifi-box/ >> >>Or how about just installing a userland to play with: >>http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html >> >>Currently selling for $85: >>http://www.canadacomputers.com/networking2.html#wir >> >> > >I should go check if they have stuff for the non wireless model then. > >Lennart Sorensen >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 15:11:11 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang (James) Li) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 08:11:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <20040927143639.GC8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927143639.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040928151111.4913.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> > How about the webct stuff York uses? Do they have a Linux client for > that? > > They sure seem to be very Mac/Windows only at York. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > the labs are mostly running windows xp. except for the cs labs which use linux now. yorku.ca header shows Apache/1.3.26 (Unix) Debian GNU/Linux FrontPage/4.0.4.3 York uses debian and also serves debian image. cheers, Qiang _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 15:22:12 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:22:12 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <20040928151111.4913.qmail-o3hY8HCn/eSA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040928151111.4913.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1096384932.5197.4.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 08:11 -0700, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > York uses debian and also serves debian image. Yes, and on-campus, the debian mirror is blisteringly fast. I know most of our mail servers and such run debian as well. In the TEL building, most machines are dual booted with SuSe though, as it's jointly owned by Seneca College, who are very very pro-SuSe. Although it was very cool of Seneca to install linux on ALL workstations. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 01:20:28 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 27 Sep 2004 21:20:28 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router In-Reply-To: References: <1096317381.2634.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Taavi Burns writes: > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:36:21 -0400, David J Patrick > wrote: > > I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. > > Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on > > College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. > > Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price > > ? > > The LinkSys WRT54G gets rather good reviews, particularly from the linux > front. (this may have something to do with the fact that the router runs linux > internally) > > Sveasoft provides some custom firmware: > http://www.sveasoft.com/ > > There's even a sourceforge project: > https://sourceforge.net/projects/wifi-box/ > > Or how about just installing a userland to play with: > http://www.batbox.org/wrt54g-linux.html Or a specialized Linux distribution complete with its own packaging tools: http://www.openwrt.org. BTW, I recommend getting the WRT54GS (S for "SpeedBooster"). AFAIK, the SpeedBooster isn't useful with Linux clinets; however, the GS has a faster processor, twice the RAM, and twice the flash (IIRC) making it a very capable device. Well worth the extra $15, IMNSHO. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 15:30:43 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 28 Sep 2004 11:30:43 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router In-Reply-To: <20040928123740.GF8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1096317381.2634.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040928123740.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 04:42:59PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:36:21 -0400, David J Patrick > > wrote: > > > I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. > > > Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on > > > College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. > > > Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price > > > ? > > > > The LinkSys WRT54G gets rather good reviews, particularly from the linux > > front. (this may have something to do with the fact that the router runs linux > > internally) > > My parents (non wireless) linksys crashes about once a week, so so far I > am not impressed by them. I wonder if they have unofficial firmware > that makes them more stable. I could be wrong but I think the wireless and non-wireless routers are very different (hardware and software). FWIW, I'm running a WRT54GS at home with the openwrt firmware. I've been running it for about a month now and have had zero crashes. We installed a similarly configred one at a customer's site a couple of weeks ago and it's also been fine and we installed another one in our office a couple of days ago. Some wireless users have reported problems due to heat when boosting the power output of the Linksys but, other than thtat, the general consensus on the openwrt site (and others) seems to be that these areq quite good. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 15:37:41 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:37:41 -0400 Subject: will microsoft cordless keyboard/mouse work in linux? Message-ID: Hi, I'm thinking of buying the MS cordless keyboard/mouse combo: http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=5a3d4f63-e821-4bfb-a4d8-4d6f8a362f1f&type=req Those system requirements say only windows... does anyone know if these will work in linux?? Thanks! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 16:22:04 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:22:04 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <41596620.5080600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040927160812.64908.qmail@web41413.mail.yahoo.com> <415840C8.6020001@detachednetworks.ca> <4158497A.7010404@rogers.com> <41589C92.5090505@rogers.com> <08298717-114D-11D9-B27C-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <41596620.5080600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040928162204.GA9775@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 09:24:48AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > phil wrote: > >On Sep 27, 2004, at 7:04 PM, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > > > >>>Currious. In my boxed set, the 64 bit install is on the flip side of > >>>the DVD. > >> > >> > >>Likewise with my set. > > > > > >Vaguely related...I noticed at the UofT bookstore that there were 'full' > >and 'update' boxes for 9.1 Pro. I couldn't see anything on the update > >version box that described any differences; nor could I see what version > >one needed to be running in order for the update to be valid. (On the > >SuSE site I see that the update box has only one manual, but there too I > >don't see any details about how 'update' is being defined.) > > Other than the manual, I don't believe there is any difference. That's what the SuSE web site says, as I recall. The newer manuals are provided in source format on the CD/DVD distro, but not in paper book form for the upgrade set. The same disks are provided in both packages. (The upgrade package might contain the small Quick Install manual - I don't remember whether there was a complete lack of paper manuals or just the large ones that were omitted.) -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 15:50:05 2004 From: arochon04-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:50:05 -0400 Subject: seeking WiFi router In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I also have a USR8054 and am using the router, AP for my notebook and the RJ-45 ports for my 2 internal servers, all since mid-march. I'm connected to Sympatico and am pleased with the performance of the device. I have had to reboot on 3 occasions, once when download speeds were about as good as a 33K modem, and twice when I could not send or receive beyond my LAN. Alain -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Tim Writer Sent: September 28, 2004 11:31 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: seeking WiFi router lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Mon, Sep 27, 2004 at 04:42:59PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 16:36:21 -0400, David J Patrick > > wrote: > > > I'm shopping for a WiFi (802.11b or g) router to use at home. > > > Ideally it will feature 802.11g with ~4port ethernet. I have seen, on > > > College St, Micro$soft and Netgear units, that seem to fit the bill. > > > Anyone have any suggestions re: linux friendly hardware for a good price > > > ? > > > > The LinkSys WRT54G gets rather good reviews, particularly from the linux > > front. (this may have something to do with the fact that the router runs linux > > internally) > > My parents (non wireless) linksys crashes about once a week, so so far I > am not impressed by them. I wonder if they have unofficial firmware > that makes them more stable. I could be wrong but I think the wireless and non-wireless routers are very different (hardware and software). FWIW, I'm running a WRT54GS at home with the openwrt firmware. I've been running it for about a month now and have had zero crashes. We installed a similarly configred one at a customer's site a couple of weeks ago and it's also been fine and we installed another one in our office a couple of days ago. Some wireless users have reported problems due to heat when boosting the power output of the Linksys but, other than thtat, the general consensus on the openwrt site (and others) seems to be that these areq quite good. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 10/09/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.760 / Virus Database: 509 - Release Date: 10/09/2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 15:58:53 2004 From: linkbayan-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Alwin Raymundo) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <4158C681.5000108-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4158C681.5000108@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040928155853.83460.qmail@web41415.mail.yahoo.com> My Friend gave me the CD and he keep the DVD. FYI. Alwin James Knott wrote: Byron L. Sonne wrote: >> Thanks for the response. I do have only cds not dvd. > > > That ain't right; it comes on 2 DVDs and something like 5 or 6 CDs. > Either you got a pirate copy, or someone cheated you and didn't give you > the DVDs. "Pirated" is a bit harsh, considering that you can give away copies. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 16:14:30 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:14:30 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <1096384932.5197.4.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040928151111.4913.qmail@web40209.mail.yahoo.com> <1096384932.5197.4.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20040928161429.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 11:22:12AM -0400, Austin wrote: > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 08:11 -0700, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > > York uses debian and also serves debian image. Hmm, I forgot about that mirror. Not a bad one for sure. > Yes, and on-campus, the debian mirror is blisteringly fast. I know most > of our mail servers and such run debian as well. > > In the TEL building, most machines are dual booted with SuSe though, as > it's jointly owned by Seneca College, who are very very pro-SuSe. > Although it was very cool of Seneca to install linux on ALL > workstations. Maybe they just have certain faculties that think windows only software is fine to inflict on the students. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 16:16:10 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:16:10 -0400 Subject: will microsoft cordless keyboard/mouse work in linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040928161610.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 11:37:41AM -0400, bassix wrote: > I'm thinking of buying the MS cordless keyboard/mouse combo: > http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=5a3d4f63-e821-4bfb-a4d8-4d6f8a362f1f&type=req > > Those system requirements say only windows... does anyone know if > these will work in linux?? I doubt anything other than maybe software for controling the functions (in windows) for the extra buttons requries windows. Making it not a standard interface would make it not work in the bios and installers and such. They wouldn't want to do that after all. On the other hand I personally much prefer Logitech stuff. I just picked up an optical wheel mouse cordless/keyboard cordless combo for $48. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 16:21:45 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:21:45 -0400 Subject: will microsoft cordless keyboard/mouse work in linux? In-Reply-To: <20040928161610.GH8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040928161610.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:16:10 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I doubt anything other than maybe software for controling the functions > (in windows) for the extra buttons requries windows. Making it not a > standard interface would make it not work in the bios and installers and > such. They wouldn't want to do that after all. > > On the other hand I personally much prefer Logitech stuff. I just > picked up an optical wheel mouse cordless/keyboard cordless combo for > $48. Thanks for the info. I would prefer Logitech too, however the prices I've seen had the Logitech for double what you paid... can I ask what store you bought the Logitech combo at? :-) Thanks again! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 16:33:26 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:33:26 -0400 Subject: suse 9.1 pro In-Reply-To: <20040928155853.83460.qmail-OMl/NMbzlUuA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040928155853.83460.qmail@web41415.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41599256.5050606@rogers.com> Alwin Raymundo wrote: > My Friend gave me the CD and he keep the DVD. That means you won't be able to install the 64 bit version, unless you install it over the internet or borrow or copy that DVD. Then again, you could always buy your own copy. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 17:23:51 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 13:23:51 -0400 Subject: will microsoft cordless keyboard/mouse work in linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1096392231.41599e27d5703@www.almatau.com> Quoting bassix : > Hi, > > I'm thinking of buying the MS cordless keyboard/mouse combo: > http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=5a3d4f63-e821-4bfb-a4d8-4d6f8a362f1f&type=req > > Those system requirements say only windows... does anyone know if > these will work in linux?? > > Thanks! They should be fine, some work may be required for the multimedia keys. M$ likes to break standards, if you look closer at the keyboard, you'll find that Delete key is twice bigger than the standard one, and Insert key disappeard from the pad. Another problem with new M$ keyboards is functional keys. I've got a similar one, and every time I start my machine I've got to press F-lock key in order to use them, otherwise they're binded to M$ Office shortcuts. Keyboards and mice used to be the only stuff Microsoft was doing well, but now it's the same poor stuff as their other products. Get Logitech instead. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 18:00:43 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (bassix) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:00:43 -0400 Subject: IBM bldg newTLUG meeting tonight Message-ID: I signed up for attending this meeting tonight... am I supposed to receive a confirmation, or just show up? Thanks... also if anyone has helpful instructions for navigating the premises... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 18:04:47 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang (James) Li) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 11:04:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <1096384932.5197.4.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1096384932.5197.4.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20040928180447.35506.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> --- Austin wrote: > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 08:11 -0700, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > > York uses debian and also serves debian image. > > Yes, and on-campus, the debian mirror is blisteringly fast. I know most > of our mail servers and such run debian as well. > > In the TEL building, most machines are dual booted with SuSe though, as > it's jointly owned by Seneca College, who are very very pro-SuSe. > Although it was very cool of Seneca to install linux on ALL > workstations. > > Austin > given the usage of open source in York. too bad that i don't even find an active linux club on campus.the yucc at CS department is almost dead organization. btw, M$ is giving a talk @ York (also other universities too) about game development by Anthony Vranic. need to register online here though. http://www.microsoft.com/canada/campustour/default.mspx Qiang _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 18:11:48 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:11:48 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client Message-ID: <1096395108.14094.5.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 11:04 -0700, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > given the usage of open source in York. What? Someone else runs linux here? Even the hardcore science people are all Sun/SGI and think I'm a communist. > too bad that i don't even find an active linux club on > campus.the yucc at CS department is almost dead organization. It's not just computers though. The Chemsitry club is dead, and the physics and astronomy clubs are very small afaik. Bio may be better. It's not a great school for clubs anyway as most people are young and commute to school. Even Seneca has a Linux club AND and open-source initiative program! Austin -- Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 18:34:20 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:34:20 -0400 Subject: will microsoft cordless keyboard/mouse work in linux? In-Reply-To: References: <20040928161610.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040928183420.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 12:21:45PM -0400, bassix wrote: > On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 12:16:10 -0400, Lennart Sorensen > wrote: > > I doubt anything other than maybe software for controling the functions > > (in windows) for the extra buttons requries windows. Making it not a > > standard interface would make it not work in the bios and installers and > > such. They wouldn't want to do that after all. > > > > On the other hand I personally much prefer Logitech stuff. I just > > picked up an optical wheel mouse cordless/keyboard cordless combo for > > $48. > > Thanks for the info. I would prefer Logitech too, however the prices > I've seen had the Logitech for double what you paid... can I ask what > store you bought the Logitech combo at? :-) > > Thanks again! www.logiccomputerhouse.com They also have the OEM of the MX version for about $80 or so. I thought the Access DUO was just fine. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 18:35:23 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:35:23 -0400 Subject: will microsoft cordless keyboard/mouse work in linux? In-Reply-To: <1096392231.41599e27d5703-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1096392231.41599e27d5703@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20040928183523.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Sep 28, 2004 at 01:23:51PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting bassix : > > > Hi, > > > > I'm thinking of buying the MS cordless keyboard/mouse combo: > > > http://www.microsoft.com/products/info/product.aspx?view=22&pcid=5a3d4f63-e821-4bfb-a4d8-4d6f8a362f1f&type=req > > > > Those system requirements say only windows... does anyone know if > > these will work in linux?? > > > > Thanks! > > They should be fine, some work may be required for the multimedia keys. M$ > likes to break standards, if you look closer at the keyboard, you'll find that > Delete key is twice bigger than the standard one, and Insert key disappeard from > the pad. Another problem with new M$ keyboards is functional keys. I've got a > similar one, and every time I start my machine I've got to press F-lock key in > order to use them, otherwise they're binded to M$ Office shortcuts. Keyboards > and mice used to be the only stuff Microsoft was doing well, but now it's the > same poor stuff as their other products. Get Logitech instead. Unfortunately logitech has started copying that idiotic f-lock to get function keys thing, but at least appear to default it to on. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 18:49:18 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 28 Sep 2004 14:49:18 -0400 Subject: IBM bldg newTLUG meeting tonight In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: bassix writes: > I signed up for attending this meeting tonight... am I supposed to > receive a confirmation, or just show up? just show up. > Thanks... also if anyone has helpful instructions for navigating the > premises... Park. Walk in the front door. Hang around with everyone until we're escorted to the meeting room. Follow the throng. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 29 02:38:16 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 22:38:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: : In-Reply-To: <4158F2A1.5060408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4158F2A1.5060408@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 28 Sep 2004, Byron L. Sonne wrote: >> Can some one please unsubscribe me from this list? > > Why? Have you forgotten how to do it? No, he hates to read email footers probably. P. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Sep 28 23:30:21 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2004 19:30:21 -0400 Subject: : In-Reply-To: References: <4158F2A1.5060408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4159F40D.2090909@rogers.com> > No, he hates to read email footers probably. lol... I totally forgot about that! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 29 21:20:07 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 17:20:07 -0400 Subject: Samba and fstab Message-ID: Hi All, I'm having a problem with samba shares. I'm trying to get a samba share mounted as a regular user but I get the following error: mount error 1 = Operation not permitted Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g.man mount.cifs) the mount cifs doc doesn't tell me much. Does anyone know how to get a regular user to mount a samba share on fedora core 2? Used to work fine with core 1. Actually, what I used to do was to set the UID to a local user so that user coudl then own the share... Here's what I have in fstab: //computer1.home/duclosm /mnt/duclosm cifs username=duclosm,user,noauto,rw 0 0 I know that the user parameter is used to allow users to run mount... I must be missing something here... Martin Duclos _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 29 14:29:38 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:29:38 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <200409271245.19233.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> <1096251776.7448.29.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200409271245.19233.david@dingodave.cjb.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 12:45:19 +1000, David Colebatch wrote: > On Monday 27 September 2004 12:22, Austin wrote: > > The secret for me was to install Win98, boot into win98, install > > scifinder, then boot back into linux, configure wine to use /mnt/windows > > as the windows root, and then scifinder ran perfectly. I use it all the > > time without any problems. > > Have you seen Bochs? it's a x86 Emulator, and you can install, say, windows > and have it run in a window, under X11... if you follow my drift. > > http://bochs.sourceforge.net/ Bochs is free and good and all...but also generally painfully slow. It's a full CPU/machine emulator package, unlike WINE or VMWare, which both run native binaries natively, and emulate the system calls/hardware (respectively). Now, this does mean that you can run Bochs on a Mac...but that's not at issue here. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 29 17:40:42 2004 From: b.arquette-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (B Arquette) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 10:40:42 -0700 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <1096395108.14094.5.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1096395108.14094.5.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: Well working at humber on the help desk i grew to hate firstclass. I seem to remeber the web client supporting converences and so forth just fine though on my home machine. On Tue, 28 Sep 2004 14:11:48 -0400, Austin wrote: > On Tue, 2004-09-28 at 11:04 -0700, Qiang (James) Li wrote: > > given the usage of open source in York. > > What? Someone else runs linux here? > Even the hardcore science people are all Sun/SGI and think I'm a > communist. > > > too bad that i don't even find an active linux club on > > campus.the yucc at CS department is almost dead organization. > > It's not just computers though. The Chemsitry club is dead, and the > physics and astronomy clubs are very small afaik. Bio may be better. > It's not a great school for clubs anyway as most people are young and > commute to school. > > Even Seneca has a Linux club AND and open-source initiative program! > > Austin > -- > Austin > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Occational Random Thoughts brought to you at barquette.blogspot.com. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Sep 29 19:11:42 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 15:11:42 -0400 Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <20040927034614.GA1012@node1.opengeometry.net> <4158111C.8070203@rogers.com> <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:33:24 -0400 (EDT), Peter L. Peres wrote: > Do you have a reference ? I think He2 is #2 (and that special liquid He > probably beats all in that list). The op asked for a liquid (at stp I > presume). He2? Helium is a noble gas, and doesn't tend to react with much, including itself. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 00:36:09 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 29 Sep 2004 20:36:09 -0400 Subject: Samba and fstab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <415B54F9.403@sympatico.ca> Do you really need to use CIFS? smb works fine for me, eg: //squirrel/mp3 /mnt/mp3 smbfs username=mp3,password=******,rw,users 0 0 I use this syntax at home to mount my NSLU2 backup device (more details: ), and Windows 2000 shares at work. Stewart -- $,="\n";foreach(split('',"\3\3\3c>\0>c\177cc\0~c~``\0cc\177cc")) {$a++;$_=unpack('B8',$_);tr,01,\40#,;$b[$a%6].=$_};print @b,"\n" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 04:02:51 2004 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 00:02:51 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? Message-ID: At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. I don't recall seeing any announcement here about this, nor do I recall seeing something on the website. The membership form mentions a "Constitution", which is not available anywhere where I've looked. So what are the funds going to be used for? What is TLUG trying to do here? Who is spear-heading this movement? How does one become involved? Just curious, pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 13:11:15 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:11:15 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040930131115.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 12:02:51AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG > membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. > > I don't recall seeing any announcement here about this, nor do I > recall seeing something on the website. The membership form mentions > a "Constitution", which is not available anywhere where I've looked. > > So what are the funds going to be used for? What is TLUG trying to do > here? Who is spear-heading this movement? How does one become > involved? > > Just curious, I have certainly never heard of it either, so I am quite sure no such thing has been announced on the list. Sounds fishy to me. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 13:13:01 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:13:01 -0400 Subject: Samba and fstab In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040930131301.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 05:20:07PM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > I'm having a problem with samba shares. I'm trying to get a samba share > mounted as a regular user but I get the following error: > > mount error 1 = Operation not permitted > Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g.man mount.cifs) > > the mount cifs doc doesn't tell me much. Does anyone know how to get a > regular user to mount a samba share on fedora core 2? Used to work fine > with core 1. Actually, what I used to do was to set the UID to a local user > so that user coudl then own the share... > > Here's what I have in fstab: > > //computer1.home/duclosm /mnt/duclosm cifs > username=duclosm,user,noauto,rw 0 0 > > I know that the user parameter is used to allow users to run mount... I > must be missing something here... I have never seen cifs there before, only smbfs or smb or something like that. Is cifs some new name for it? I also didn't think regular users could do smb mounts, although I never tried either. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 13:15:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:15:03 -0400 Subject: Samba and fstab In-Reply-To: <20040930131301.GL8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131301.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040930131503.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 09:13:01AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Sep 29, 2004 at 05:20:07PM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > > I'm having a problem with samba shares. I'm trying to get a samba share > > mounted as a regular user but I get the following error: > > > > mount error 1 = Operation not permitted > > Refer to the mount.cifs(8) manual page (e.g.man mount.cifs) > > > > the mount cifs doc doesn't tell me much. Does anyone know how to get a > > regular user to mount a samba share on fedora core 2? Used to work fine > > with core 1. Actually, what I used to do was to set the UID to a local user > > so that user coudl then own the share... > > > > Here's what I have in fstab: > > > > //computer1.home/duclosm /mnt/duclosm cifs > > username=duclosm,user,noauto,rw 0 0 > > > > I know that the user parameter is used to allow users to run mount... I > > must be missing something here... > > I have never seen cifs there before, only smbfs or smb or something like > that. Is cifs some new name for it? > > I also didn't think regular users could do smb mounts, although I never > tried either. Actually I tend to think konqueror smb://server/share is much simpler and nicer for regular users to access non permanent mounts. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 13:20:34 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:20:34 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <20040930131115.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131115.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <415C0822.1080709@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 12:02:51AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > >>At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG >>membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. >> >>I don't recall seeing any announcement here about this, nor do I >>recall seeing something on the website. The membership form mentions >>a "Constitution", which is not available anywhere where I've looked. >> >>So what are the funds going to be used for? What is TLUG trying to do >>here? Who is spear-heading this movement? How does one become >>involved? >> >>Just curious, > > > I have certainly never heard of it either, so I am quite sure no such > thing has been announced on the list. Sounds fishy to me. There was also someone at the last TLUG meeting, selling memberships. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 13:23:05 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:23:05 -0400 Subject: Samba and fstab In-Reply-To: <20040930131503.GM8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131301.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040930131503.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <415C08B9.70903@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Actually I tend to think konqueror smb://server/share is much simpler > and nicer for regular users to access non permanent mounts. I've found it doesn't work with OS/2 shares, even though mounting the share works fine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 13:29:06 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:29:06 -0400 Subject: Samba and fstab In-Reply-To: <415C08B9.70903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131301.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040930131503.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <415C08B9.70903@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040930132906.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 09:23:05AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >Actually I tend to think konqueror smb://server/share is much simpler > >and nicer for regular users to access non permanent mounts. > > I've found it doesn't work with OS/2 shares, even though mounting the > share works fine. Interesting. Although then again, who cares? :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 13:29:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:29:50 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <415C0822.1080709-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131115.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <415C0822.1080709@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040930132950.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 09:20:34AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > There was also someone at the last TLUG meeting, selling memberships. Does anyone know who, and what excactly that membership is supposed to be for and do for you? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 14:53:24 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 10:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Paul Mora wrote: > At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG > membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. > > I don't recall seeing any announcement here about this, nor do I > recall seeing something on the website. The membership form mentions > a "Constitution", which is not available anywhere where I've looked. > > So what are the funds going to be used for? What is TLUG trying to do > here? Who is spear-heading this movement? How does one become > involved? Like the others I am suspicious of this. I've CC:ed Drew as I'm not sure he is on the list at the moment. Any idea of the name of the person selling these "memberships". Rob TLUG talks coordinator. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 15:33:54 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 30 Sep 2004 11:33:54 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <20040930132950.GO8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131115.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <415C0822.1080709@rogers.com> <20040930132950.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > Does anyone know who, and what excactly that membership is supposed to > be for and do for you? It would also be interesting to see who is on the board of this tlug inc., their policies on various things such as conflict of interest guidelines and board membership selection criteria/responsibilities, terms, etc... I'm sure that the guys working on this will pop their heads up sometime. I do know that people like Ed Chin [??; the guy with the membership forms at NewTLUG], Bill Thanis and Christopher Browne. I'm a little disappointed in how this is rolling out. It doesn't seem very community driven or centric. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 16:08:29 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 09:08:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Windows NT with Samba: Why input password twice? In-Reply-To: <20040930132906.GN8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930132906.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040930160829.85045.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, Linux gurus! I configured Samba with encrypted password yes, and alos enabled Windows NT plain text password to bring the Windows NT to talk Samba. That is fine. One thing bother me is that when Windows NT comes out, it first ask to input the Windows password, then it ask me input the Samba user password again. Is there any way to avoid the second time to input the password. I tried to set up the Samba security level= share and the Windows NT just won't talk to Samba. My NT is SP6 upgraded. My Samba is 2.0.7. Thanks a lot! Fran Peng. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 16:13:43 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:13:43 -0400 Subject: Windows NT with Samba: Why input password twice? In-Reply-To: <20040930160829.85045.qmail-5zxKuoCaw2iA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930160829.85045.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <415C30B7.9010703@knet.ca> methinks the case-sensitive samba username and password is different than your windows username password.(case-sensitive) use smbpasswd Frank Peng wrote: >Hi, Linux gurus! > >I configured Samba with encrypted password yes, and >alos enabled Windows NT plain text password to bring >the Windows NT to talk Samba. That is fine. One thing >bother me is that when Windows NT comes out, it first >ask to input the Windows password, then it ask me >input the Samba user password again. Is there any way >to avoid the second time to input the password. > >I tried to set up the Samba security level= share and >the Windows NT just won't talk to Samba. My NT is SP6 >upgraded. My Samba is 2.0.7. > >Thanks a lot! > >Fran Peng. > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 16:15:36 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:15:36 -0400 Subject: Samba and fstab In-Reply-To: <20040930132906.GN8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131301.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040930131503.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <415C08B9.70903@rogers.com> <20040930132906.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <415C3128.7020504@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 09:23:05AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >>>Actually I tend to think konqueror smb://server/share is much simpler >>>and nicer for regular users to access non permanent mounts. >> >>I've found it doesn't work with OS/2 shares, even though mounting the >>share works fine. > > > Interesting. Although then again, who cares? :) Well, one of my desktop systems is OS/2 and there are others who use it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 18:32:37 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:32:37 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <20040917143306.GH8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-09-17 at 10:33, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Sep 17, 2004 at 12:33:13AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > Hey Lennart! With a few clues dropped, I got it working ! > > Now (not to be pickey) This is current conditions, right ? Can the same > > service be induced to give out a forcast ? Can I tell it to skip the > > farenheit ? Where would I turn to answer some of these daft questions > > myself ? > > Well where it has the foreach at the end, you could change it to just > print the keys you want rather than all of them. Not knowing anything much about perl and/or Weather::Underground, I have undertaken to boil down the result of the above weather.pl script, and the result of something called "sunwait", using ol' SED. Now, I admit that I've barely got a handle on that "stream editor", so I'm posting my sed problem, before wasting a week trying every concievable combination. =================== the output of weather.pl (today) gives me MATCH: celsius = 18 pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa temperature_celsius = 18 place = Toronto windchill_celsius = wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW fahrenheit = 64 updated = 1:00 PM EDT on September 30, 2004 windchill_fahrenheit = conditions = Clear temperature_fahrenheit = 64 humidity = 59 ==================== and the output of sunwait (using "sunwait sun -p 43.40N 79.24W") is Using location: 43.400000N, 79.240000W Date: 30 Sep 2004 Local time: 13:46 Day length: 11:45 hours With civil twilight 12:39 hours With nautical twilight 13:45 hours With astronomical twilight 14:52 hours Length of twilight: civil 0:26 hours nautical 1:00 hours astronomical 1:33 hours Current specified time zone: EDT (-4 from UTC) Sun transits meridian 1306 EDT Sun rises 0715 EDT, sets 1857 EDT Civil twilight starts 0646 EDT, ends 1926 EDT Nautical twilight starts 0613 EDT, ends 1959 EDT Astronomical twilight starts 0540 EDT, ends 2032 EDT (although all I really want is the line containing "Sun rises") ====================== The desired "conditions.sc" block would be something like: Toronto @ 1:00 PM EDT celsius = 18 conditions = Clear humidity = 59 pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW Sun rises 0715 EDT, sets 1857 EDT =========================== Here is the pertainant block of my "callsheet" script. #### atmospheric conditions #### # clsht -w [location] # ^^^ set program and user defaults # ??? how can I ensure program completion, even if this module (or ANY part) fails ??? weather.pl > weather.sc #SED # ^^^ remove lines ending in "=" #SED # ^^^ remove lines containing "MATCH:" #SED # ^^^ remove lines containing "farenheit" #SED # ^^^ remove lines containing "temperature_celsius =" (redundant) #SED # ^^^ find line containing "place =", grab corresponting value to buffer #SED # ^^^ remove line containing "place =" #SED # ^^^ on line containg "updated =" replace "updated" with %place =%, truncate line from "on" to end #SED # ^^^ remove leading and trailing blank spaces # cat to conditions.sc # sort conditions.sc alphabetically # set user default lat & long sunwait sun -p $LATLONG > astro.sc #SED /Sun rises//d # ^^^ remove lines not containing "Sun rises" #SED /$ //d # ^^^ remove leading spaces # >> conditions.sc ========================== Any clues would be appreciated. Am I asking you to write my script for me ? Heck no ! ..would you mind ?? ;-) This is all going to get wrapped up and posted to Sourceforge, where the whole weird ball o wax will be available to those with a similar bent. thanks, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 19:09:18 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 15:09:18 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <1096569157.2901.41.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040930190918.GA520@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 02:32:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > MATCH: > celsius = 18 > pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa > temperature_celsius = 18 > place = Toronto > windchill_celsius = > wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW > fahrenheit = 64 > updated = 1:00 PM EDT on September 30, 2004 > windchill_fahrenheit = > conditions = Clear > temperature_fahrenheit = 64 > humidity = 59 Given above input, the desired output > Toronto @ 1:00 PM EDT > celsius = 18 > conditions = Clear > humidity = 59 > pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa > wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW can be obtained as follows, using standard shell: while read a eq b; do case $a in celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; place) place=$b ;; updated) updated=$b ;; esac echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" done < weather.sc | sort > Using location: 43.400000N, 79.240000W > Date: 30 Sep 2004 > Local time: 13:46 > Day length: 11:45 hours > With civil twilight 12:39 hours > With nautical twilight 13:45 hours > With astronomical twilight 14:52 hours > Length of twilight: civil 0:26 hours > nautical 1:00 hours > astronomical 1:33 hours > Current specified time zone: EDT (-4 from UTC) > Sun transits meridian 1306 EDT > Sun rises 0715 EDT, sets 1857 EDT > Civil twilight starts 0646 EDT, ends 1926 EDT > Nautical twilight starts 0613 EDT, ends 1959 EDT > Astronomical twilight starts 0540 EDT, ends 2032 EDT Given above input data, the desired output > Sun rises 0715 EDT, sets 1857 EDT can be obtained by sed -n '/Sun rises/s/^ *//p' < astro.sc -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 23:27:39 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:27:39 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <20040930190918.GA520-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040930190918.GA520@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040930232739.GA955@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 03:09:18PM -0400, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 02:32:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > MATCH: > > celsius = 18 > > pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa > > temperature_celsius = 18 > > place = Toronto > > windchill_celsius = > > wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW > > fahrenheit = 64 > > updated = 1:00 PM EDT on September 30, 2004 > > windchill_fahrenheit = > > conditions = Clear > > temperature_fahrenheit = 64 > > humidity = 59 > > Given above input, the desired output > > > Toronto @ 1:00 PM EDT > > celsius = 18 > > conditions = Clear > > humidity = 59 > > pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa > > wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW > > can be obtained as follows, using standard shell: > > while read a eq b; do > case $a in > celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; > place) place=$b ;; > updated) updated=$b ;; > esac > echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" > done < weather.sc | sort Well, there is typo here, but I'll let you find out what it is. :-) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 23:49:34 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:49:34 -0400 Subject: GNU Build Utilities Message-ID: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> I would like to use the GNU build utiities automake and autoconfig to generate an executable file from a simple c program. I have in directory ~/hello the source (hello.c) of the famous "Hello World" program. I also checked that I have the build utilities properly installed. I am logged in as user and I use Mandrake 10. Question: What sequence of commands are required to achieve my goal? The manuals for automake and autoconfig seem to be written for those who know how to do it, but not for those who have never done it. Catch 22 :-( John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Sep 30 16:59:25 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 12:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: water, energy (definately not *nix related) In-Reply-To: References: <4157629C.1010306@rogers.com> <20040927034614.GA1012@node1.opengeometry.net> <4158111C.8070203@rogers.com> <1096300887.4158395767e0b@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 29 Sep 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > On Mon, 27 Sep 2004 21:33:24 -0400 (EDT), Peter L. Peres > wrote: >> Do you have a reference ? I think He2 is #2 (and that special liquid He >> probably beats all in that list). The op asked for a liquid (at stp I >> presume). > > He2? Helium is a noble gas, and doesn't tend to react with much, including > itself. My bad. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml