From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 03:59:50 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang ( Lee )) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Windows NT with Samba: Why input password twice? In-Reply-To: <20040930160829.85045.qmail-5zxKuoCaw2iA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930160829.85045.qmail@web50903.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041001035950.42212.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> --- Frank Peng wrote: > Hi, Linux gurus! > > I configured Samba with encrypted password yes, and > alos enabled Windows NT plain text password to bring > the Windows NT to talk Samba. That is fine. One thing > bother me is that when Windows NT comes out, it first > ask to input the Windows password, then it ask me > input the Samba user password again. Is there any way > to avoid the second time to input the password. you will find it sooner if you did a google search first.. anyway, check this msg http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2001-April/026417.html > I tried to set up the Samba security level= share and > the Windows NT just won't talk to Samba. My NT is SP6 > upgraded. My Samba is 2.0.7. > > Thanks a lot! > why have the plaintextpassword enabled for windows if you have encrypted pwd enabled for samba? also, i remember setup share mode for samba is not recommended. please consult the doc. and . samba 2.0.7 is really old and a lot security/performance problems. you may consider update it to 3.0. cheers, Qiang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 11:41:31 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 04:41:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Windows NT with Samba: Why input password twice? In-Reply-To: <20041001035950.42212.qmail-ss9mBXhuCQ6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041001035950.42212.qmail@web40202.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041001114131.37366.qmail@web50906.mail.yahoo.com> Thank you all guys! I fixed it by this way: I made an account in Linux as Administrator instead of administrator and Frank instead of frank. I made smbpasswd -a Administrator ... Then in Windows NT I changed the password the same as in the Linux. Then I tried several times map network drives. Finally, it is fine and no longer bother me enter the password again. My linux computer name is frank but Windows NT shows Frank, back into Linux, Frank does not exists. Lots of bell shit. Thank you again! Frank Peng. --- "Qiang ( Lee )" wrote: > > --- Frank Peng wrote: > > > Hi, Linux gurus! > > > > I configured Samba with encrypted password yes, > and > > alos enabled Windows NT plain text password to > bring > > the Windows NT to talk Samba. That is fine. One > thing > > bother me is that when Windows NT comes out, it > first > > ask to input the Windows password, then it ask me > > input the Samba user password again. Is there any > way > > to avoid the second time to input the password. > > you will find it sooner if you did a google search > first.. anyway, check this msg > > http://lists.samba.org/archive/samba/2001-April/026417.html > > > I tried to set up the Samba security level= share > and > > the Windows NT just won't talk to Samba. My NT is > SP6 > > upgraded. My Samba is 2.0.7. > > > > Thanks a lot! > > > > why have the plaintextpassword enabled for windows > if you have encrypted pwd enabled for samba? > > also, i remember setup share mode for samba is not > recommended. please consult the doc. > > and . samba 2.0.7 is really old and a lot > security/performance problems. you may consider > update > it to 3.0. > > > cheers, > > Qiang > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! > http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:18:06 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:18:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samba and fstab In-Reply-To: <20040930131503.GM8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131301.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040930131503.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Actually I tend to think konqueror smb://server/share is much simpler > and nicer for regular users to access non permanent mounts. Look into 'teaching' the automounter to mound smb shares. It is painless and efficient. Also unused mounts expire (i.e. if a machine goes down there will be less havoc) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:24:51 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:24:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: <200409301949.34255.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > I would like to use the GNU build utiities automake and autoconfig to generate > an executable file from a simple c program. > I have in directory ~/hello the source (hello.c) of the famous "Hello World" > program. > I also checked that I have the build utilities properly installed. > I am logged in as user and I use Mandrake 10. > Question: What sequence of commands are required to achieve my goal? > The manuals for automake and autoconfig seem to be written for those who know > how to do it, but not for those who have never done it. Catch 22 :-( > John Automake/autoconfig tutorials do not fit in an email but did you look at 'info automake' -> Examples -> Hello ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 14:33:37 2004 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 10:33:37 -0400 Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20041001103337.7760dab5.jvetterli@linux.ca> On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:24:51 -0400 (EDT) "Peter L. Peres" wrote: > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > > I would like to use the GNU build utiities automake and autoconfig to generate > > an executable file from a simple c program. > Automake/autoconfig tutorials do not fit in an email but did you look at > 'info automake' -> Examples -> Hello ? There's a book online that might help: http://sources.redhat.com/autobook/ JV -- Sylpheed-WARNING **: can't open signature file: /home/jvetterli/.signature -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 16:28:59 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 12:28:59 -0400 Subject: Selection criteria In-Reply-To: <20040923154725.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <658873FA-0D62-11D9-BA89-00050249A5C8@istop.com> <4152D4F7.5000407@detachednetworks.ca> <1095951834.3724.108.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040923154725.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1096648138.3669.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-09-23 at 11:47, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > A transition from AmigaOS to QNX to DOS to Linux and then windows on the > other hand has never made me thing MS could write an OS that was > particularly good, although XP plays games OK. :) The games that are > out for linux seem to run very well though, so maybe at some time > Windows will have no use at all. Couldn't come soon enough for me. Spent a few years learning about game design/programming for DirectX... Now it's SDLPerl and OpenGL. :) If only there were a way to get paid for it. lol. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 16:49:35 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 12:49:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SMP System Message-ID: Hi all. Does anyone have a low-medium powered IA32 SMP system they would be willing to part with for cash. This would be perfect for some that has a system just lying around. I need it to do some testing. If you only have the motherboard and CPUs this would be ok too. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 17:40:51 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:40:51 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question Message-ID: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'd like to locate files that are hogging a bunch of space on one of my systems. Based on some previous posts here, I'm thinking that I could probably use find and xargs to handle the task quickly. Any pointers for working with xargs would be most appreciated - I'm finding the man page a little confusing. Thanks, - Scott. -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 17:48:56 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:48:56 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <1096652449.3669.10.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096652934.3669.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Perhaps I should've tried 'info find' before posting. :) Thx anyway! - Scott. On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 13:40, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'd like to locate files that are hogging a bunch of space on one of my > systems. Based on some previous posts here, I'm thinking that I could > probably use find and xargs to handle the task quickly. > > Any pointers for working with xargs would be most appreciated - I'm > finding the man page a little confusing. > > Thanks, > - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 00:58:11 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 20:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <1096652449.3669.10.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Scott Elcomb wrote: > I'd like to locate files that are hogging a bunch of space on one of my > systems. Based on some previous posts here, I'm thinking that I could > probably use find and xargs to handle the task quickly. > > Any pointers for working with xargs would be most appreciated - I'm > finding the man page a little confusing. First, would this help: du -s *|sort -rn|less (replace asterisk with / if you dare, then run the command again with /here, then /here/there etc) Second: ls | xargs -n1 echo -e "Another file: " Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 17:55:52 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:55:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <1096652934.3669.13.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652934.3669.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > I'd like to locate files that are hogging a bunch of space on one of my > > systems. Based on some previous posts here, I'm thinking that I could > > probably use find and xargs to handle the task quickly. > > > > Any pointers for working with xargs would be most appreciated - I'm > > finding the man page a little confusing. Try: find / -size +5000k -ls where the +5000k will find files which exceed 5MB (5000KB) in size. The -ls will show you a long listing with the specific size for each found. Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From onebigpenguin-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 17:57:37 2004 From: onebigpenguin-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (keith haddad) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: how can I join your IRC group In-Reply-To: <20041001171746.10DF06DA16-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041001171746.10DF06DA16@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20041001175737.89362.qmail@web53709.mail.yahoo.com> I tried to join #newtlug but it says I need a registered user nick. How do I do that. Thanks, Keith ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 18:15:33 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 14:15:33 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 20:58, Peter L. Peres wrote: > First, would this help: > > du -s *|sort -rn|less > > (replace asterisk with / if you dare, then run the command again with > /here, then /here/there etc) > > Second: > > ls | xargs -n1 echo -e "Another file: " Nice. I like both of these command strings. Turns out that .wav's were my problem. Forgot they were even there. Thanks again, - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 18:18:18 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 14:18:18 -0400 Subject: how can I join your IRC group In-Reply-To: <20041001175737.89362.qmail-NSUdnFLvP8aA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041001171746.10DF06DA16@lethe.ss.org> <20041001175737.89362.qmail@web53709.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:57:37 -0400 (EDT), keith haddad wrote: > I tried to join #newtlug but it says I need a > registered user nick. I don't know anything about the #newtlug channel, as I don't hang out there, BUT... I do hang on #toronto-lug, which has no restrictions on nick registration. For more information on nick registration, do the irc logging in thing, and then: /msg nickserv help That should get you started. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 19:01:01 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:01:01 -0400 Subject: SMP System In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041001190101.GA332@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 12:49:35PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Does anyone have a low-medium powered IA32 SMP system they would > be willing to part with for cash. This would be perfect for some that > has a system just lying around. I need it to do some testing. If you > only have the motherboard and CPUs this would be ok too. I got dual-P3/600/133MHz, Abit VP6, Enlight mid-tower case/power supply, 3c905CX, ATI Xpert98 (8MB). No memory or drives. They used to be part of 8-cpu cluster, but now I'm salvaging them for parts. :-( How many do you want? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 19:30:59 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:30:59 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <1096654524.3669.18.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 02:15:33PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 20:58, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > First, would this help: > > > > du -s *|sort -rn|less > > > > (replace asterisk with / if you dare, then run the command again with > > /here, then /here/there etc) > > > > Second: > > > > ls | xargs -n1 echo -e "Another file: " > > Nice. I like both of these command strings. > > Turns out that .wav's were my problem. Forgot they were even there. Just be aware the example fails badly on filenames with spaces. For that you should use find's -print0 option along with xarg's -0 option. Null seperated filenames rahter than whitespace seperated. Now for those filenames that have null's in the name, well you will just have to deal with those yourself. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:03:06 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 13:03:06 -0700 Subject: A starnix employee delivering wireless to a neighborhood near you Message-ID: "Like many of us, Andrew Greig put a WiFi access point in his house so he could share his broadband Internet connection. But like hardly any of us, Andrew uses his WiFi network for Internet, television, and telephone. He cancelled his telephone line and cable TV service. Then his neighbors dropped-by, saw what Andrew had done, and they cancelled their telephone and cable TV services, too, many of them without having a wired broadband connection of their own. They get their service from Andrew, who added an inline amplifier and put a better antenna in his attic. Now most of Andrew's neighborhood is watching digital TV with full PVR capability, making unmetered VoIP telephone calls, and downloading data at prodigious rates thanks to shared bandwidth. Is this the future of home communications and entertainment? It could be, five years from now, if Andrew Greig has anything to say about it." It is fantastic to hear good PR for a company that has done lots of good for our community . Although apparently legal , hopefully , this publicity does not work out bad for Starnix , Andrew , and neighbors , Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:06:18 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:06:18 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200410011606.19080.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 30 September 2004 00:02, Paul Mora wrote: > At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG > membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. I think it is safe to declare them as scam artists. It's been 40 hours since your email and nobody has piped up to enlighten us ... perhaps it's a different TLUG that they were collecting for since they apparently aren't part of this group. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:14:28 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:14:28 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <20041001193059.GP8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200410011614.28224.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 01 October 2004 15:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Just be aware the example fails badly on filenames with spaces. ?For > that you should use find's -print0 option along with xarg's -0 option. > Null seperated filenames rahter than whitespace seperated. I'm sure y'all know this but just a quick tip to save the fast fingered ... print0 is a very useful option, it is also a dangerous option for someone who might skim the man page without grokking it 100% ... like me ;-) "find . -type f -mtime +7" will print all files that have not been modified in at least 7 days. "find . -type f -print0 -mtime +7" will print all files. -print0 must be the last arument, very important when doing something like: find . -type f -mtime +7 -print0 | xargs -r -0 rm -f Fortunately there were backups in my case :-( -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:31:25 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:31:25 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <200410011606.19080.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200410011606.19080.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1096662684.5186.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Is there a webpage available somewhere with information related to becoming a TLUG member - I'd assume there's a little more than an "ok, you're in!" :) I'm intending to aquire a residence in the GTA by the end of this year. Thanks, - Scott. On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 16:06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Thursday 30 September 2004 00:02, Paul Mora wrote: > > > At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG > > membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. > > I think it is safe to declare them as scam artists. It's been 40 hours since > your email and nobody has piped up to enlighten us ... perhaps it's a > different TLUG that they were collecting for since they apparently aren't > part of this group. -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:39:52 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 16:39:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <1096662684.5186.14.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <200410011606.19080.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1096662684.5186.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Is there a webpage available somewhere with information related to > becoming a TLUG member - I'd assume there's a little more than an "ok, > you're in!" :) Right now TLUG levies no membership fees and keeps no record of members. Turn up at a meeting and your as much a member as anyone :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 20:44:55 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 16:44:55 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: References: <200410011606.19080.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1096662684.5186.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1096663492.5186.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Well then, guess I was wrong. :D - Scott. On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 16:39, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > Is there a webpage available somewhere with information related to > > becoming a TLUG member - I'd assume there's a little more than an "ok, > > you're in!" :) > > Right now TLUG levies no membership fees and keeps no record of members. > Turn up at a meeting and your as much a member as anyone :) > > Rob -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 21:27:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 17:27:39 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <200410011614.28224.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410011614.28224.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20041001212739.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 04:14:28PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Friday 01 October 2004 15:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > Just be aware the example fails badly on filenames with spaces. ?For > > that you should use find's -print0 option along with xarg's -0 option. > > Null seperated filenames rahter than whitespace seperated. > > I'm sure y'all know this but just a quick tip to save the fast fingered ... > > print0 is a very useful option, it is also a dangerous option for someone who > might skim the man page without grokking it 100% ... like me ;-) > > "find . -type f -mtime +7" will print all files that have not been modified in > at least 7 days. > > "find . -type f -print0 -mtime +7" will print all files. -print0 must be the > last arument, very important when doing something like: > > find . -type f -mtime +7 -print0 | xargs -r -0 rm -f > > Fortunately there were backups in my case :-( find uses lazy evaluation (that's a good feature) so each option is checked in order, and if a fail is encountered, not followed by an or (-o I believe) it will go on to the next file, otherwise it keeps checking options. -print and -print0 are simply true and while returning true print the name. by default find sticks a -print at the end unless -exec or something else is there since it figures some side effect should be performed. I always test my find commands using: find ..... | xargs echo command options echo is a good thing, lets you see if the result looks sane before really doing it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 21:45:32 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:45:32 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <20041001212739.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410011614.28224.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20041001212739.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1096667129.5186.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 17:27, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 04:14:28PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > On Friday 01 October 2004 15:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > [...] > echo is a good thing, lets you see if the result looks sane before > really doing it. At the risk of facing "the wrath of the community" [ :) ] echo is one of my absolute favorite shell cmds - a lesson learned in Windows/DOS. As per the "Basics of the UNIX Philosophy - Seventeen Steps to Happiness" (as described in by LinuxFormat), the echo command provides a solution to a couple of "the rules" : - Rule of Clarity - Clarity is better than cleverness. - Rule of Simplicity - Design for simplicity; add complexity only where necessary. - Rule of Robustness - Robustness is the the child of Transparency & Simplicity. - Rule of Silence - When a program has nothing surprising to say, it should say nothing. - Rule of Economy - Programmer time is expensive; conserve it in preference to machine time. There are some others, but I'm fairly certain that covers the basics. :) -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 00:31:15 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 01 Oct 2004 20:31:15 -0400 Subject: Rogers NNTP Message-ID: <87k6uavu3w.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Accessing multimedia newsgroups is somthing I seldom do. Text based and even jpeg/gif type posts are still accesible with no problem. However, today when I attempted to save an avi file, I got a ``handshake failed'' message from the server. I usually use Gnus and wondered if I had borked the config somehow, but was doubtful because I haven't changed the nntp part of the .gnus config file for ages. But after trying Pan and K-Node I did eventually get a message indicating that a LI/PW pair were needed. Doing a ping on nntp indicates that the real server is ``news.isp.giganews.com'' Going to the giganews site seems to indicate that they want money for a feed. Searching the Rogers site for a hint produced nothing. Has the newsfeed gone the same way my websites have? Like you get shuffled to some Yahoo site that graciously lets you use http to upload when attempting to set up secondary subscriber websites now. Does anyone know what the score is with Rogers please? -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 01:06:37 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 21:06:37 -0400 Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200410012106.37575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Friday 01 October 2004 04:24 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: > On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > > I would like to use the GNU build utiities automake and autoconfig to > > generate an executable file from a simple c program. > > John > > Automake/autoconfig tutorials do not fit in an email but did you look at > 'info automake' -> Examples -> Hello ? > > Peter Well, I have to admit it, I approached this problem with a very simplistic attitude. My c program is only a few lines long and contains only the bare minimum to print Hello World. Following your advice I got hold of the Example "hello-1.3.tar.gz" . I untared it, then used configure, make and then make install. Lo and behold I got an executable file called 'hello' that printed happily 'Hello, World! Examining all the produced files I was in for some surprises. The source c file is 263 lines long, There are 35 files in the source tree. The configure file is 554 lines long The Makefile is only 124 lines long. Most of the other files are a mystery in their makeup and usage. Enough said, I will stick with simple cc compiler and let the wizards worry about the GNU build system. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 01:29:06 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 21:29:06 -0400 Subject: Rogers NNTP In-Reply-To: <87k6uavu3w.fsf-GtzO1qr/b/653Rd6M7GqU0CW56haWIzXIrC0AzgbhvsKu2YovVVDERgSKFK9O5hcLMHrShElKjA@public.gmane.org> References: <87k6uavu3w.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041002012906.GB2479@seahorse> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 08:31:15PM -0400, SlackRat wrote: > Does anyone know what the score is with Rogers please? Within the last month Rogers seems to have outsourced its netnews operations to Giganews. "nntp.broadband.rogers.com" and "nntp.*.phub.net.cable.rogers.com" are now CNAMEs for "news.isp.giganews.com". Two connections max, 32kb/s per connection. Gone are the days of >300kb/s connections to Rogers news servers, as there are no more Rogers news servers. The auth problem you are having is because your newsreader is trying to make >2 concurrent connections. Find the setting for "max connections" or "number of conncurrent connections" or something like that and set it to 2. Some may feel that their recent marketing of "5 Mbit/s Extreme Edition" plus the loss of one of their more broadband-specific apps (fat pipe to newsservers) is a bait-and-switch tactic. Others may see this as part of the move of Rogers away from being a content provider/portal to a provider of cable connectivity to the internet. Yahoo is now Rogers' partner for all things email, acct. management, and web content so the writing was probably on the wall. You could enter the Rogers $100,000 contest and then pay for whatever premium news service your heart desires (GigaNews being only one of these). Cheers, Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 01:42:45 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 21:42:45 -0400 Subject: Rogers NNTP In-Reply-To: <87k6uavu3w.fsf-GtzO1qr/b/653Rd6M7GqU0CW56haWIzXIrC0AzgbhvsKu2YovVVDERgSKFK9O5hcLMHrShElKjA@public.gmane.org> References: <87k6uavu3w.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <415E0795.9090301@rogers.com> > Accessing multimedia newsgroups is somthing I seldom do. > Text based and even jpeg/gif type posts are still accesible with no problem. > However, today when I attempted to save an avi file, I got a ``handshake > failed'' message from the server. I, unlike you, frequent the binaries of usenet (far too much for my own good probably!) and ran into the same problem. It would also take a long time to connect and start refreshing the header list. Both went away with some very simple host/FQDN tweaks. I fixed it by setting my connection limit to 2, and using 'nntp.bloor.phub.net.cable.rogers.com' (you may have to use something germane to your geographic location; I'm very near Bathurst & Eglinton) instead of just 'nntp' or 'news'. This in turn appears to resolve to news.isp.giganews.com, and the article retention period appears to be much, much longer than it used to be. You do not need to make any auth changes or whatnot. I think it was just a case of ugly DNS. BTW, I'm using Pan 0.14.2 (pan.rebelbase.com). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 21:24:08 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 17:24:08 -0400 Subject: GPL'ed our backup program :)! Looking for beta-testers/coders officially Message-ID: <415DCAF8.4040201@alteeve.com> (This may be a duplicate, my first try to send seems to have failed. Sorry if that happens!) Hi all, Wonderful news!! (well, from my point of view). My boss has agreed to release the backup program I have been working on (and asking you all about so much) under the GPL2! I am really happy that he has agreed to do this and now I feel like I can properly ask for help. Admittedly I am quite biased, but I think the backup program has really great potential. Quick recap of what it is: The program is called "TLE-BU" (The Linux Experience BackUp). It used any hard drive partition as a source or destination and it supports hot-swap (via USB/Firewire, SCA, etc) and any file system the underlying OS can read or right. It intelligently decides what files will be backed up to where and does not need care how or where a partition is connected nor whether it is mounted or not. It archives complete file information making it possible to search for files on media that is offline using a very configurable search engine. All of this works already though the program is very much in an alpha state. What I need help with is improving database performance (it is quite DB-intensive... it's strength and it's weakness), security and stability. I think it is quite advanced for where it is at however I also know that it needs a lot of work before it can be considered mature enough to use in production. If you want to help, what you need is a test machine and a few partitions. There is no installer yet (that will come shortly... there is still a few bugs that need to be ironed out) however it is simply a matter of copying the relevant files to the proper directory for whatever web-server you want to use to see. It needs a database (currently only psql is supported but I want to expand this to perl's DBI and any other SQL compatible DB). Other than that it needs a few programs you probably already have: 'blkid', 'sudo', 'fdisk', etc. If anyone is interested in helping or wants to know more, please email me either here or off the list at 'mkelly_at_alteeve_dot_com'. Madison PS - The program is written in perl with a bit of javascript. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 02:13:30 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:13:30 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <20040930232739.GA955-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040930190918.GA520@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040930232739.GA955@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1096596810.2797.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-09-30 at 19:27, William Park wrote: > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 03:09:18PM -0400, William Park wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 02:32:37PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > > MATCH: > > > celsius = 18 > > > pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa > > > temperature_celsius = 18 > > > place = Toronto > > > windchill_celsius = > > > wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW > > > fahrenheit = 64 > > > updated = 1:00 PM EDT on September 30, 2004 > > > windchill_fahrenheit = > > > conditions = Clear > > > temperature_fahrenheit = 64 > > > humidity = 59 > > > > Given above input, the desired output > > > > > Toronto @ 1:00 PM EDT > > > celsius = 18 > > > conditions = Clear > > > humidity = 59 > > > pressure = 30.06 in / 1018 hPa > > > wind = 9 mph 15 km/h from the SSW > > > > can be obtained as follows, using standard shell: > > > > while read a eq b; do > > case $a in > > celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; > > place) place=$b ;; > > updated) updated=$b ;; > > esac > > echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" > > done < weather.sc | sort > > Well, there is typo here, but I'll let you find out what it is. :-) Oh Mr Parks, you're a BAD MAN !! ummmmm updated% should be %updated ?? while a eq b should be $a eq $b .. ? the word "case" appears to be spelled backwards, near the end .. sigh.. I give up ! In the old days, we'd use scisors, gluestick, non-repro blue pens and a photocopier .. those days are gone. I can also splice 1/4" audiotape and do tube registration on analog BetaCam cameras.. work with wood, wiring and plumbing. I play eight instruments and speak four languages, but it seems BASH is not one of them ... mebbe a clue ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 02:36:18 2004 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 05:36:18 +0300 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? Message-ID: I agree with you guys. If there is any idea of changing the structure of TLUG it should be first put on the table and discussed by the "members". Because membership is open and free does not mean there is no membership or there are no members. I think who ever subscribes to this list is a member. Many of those that subscribe to the list attend the monthly meeting. To be fair, any idea concerning the community should be openly discussed by all first. cheers, EK ----Original Message Follows---- From: "G. Matthew Rice" <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? Date: 30 Sep 2004 11:33:54 -0400 lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > Does anyone know who, and what excactly that membership is supposed to > be for and do for you? It would also be interesting to see who is on the board of this tlug inc., their policies on various things such as conflict of interest guidelines and board membership selection criteria/responsibilities, terms, etc... I'm sure that the guys working on this will pop their heads up sometime. I do know that people like Ed Chin [??; the guy with the membership forms at NewTLUG], Bill Thanis and Christopher Browne. I'm a little disappointed in how this is rolling out. It doesn't seem very community driven or centric. Regards, -- g. matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 22:01:50 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 18:01:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <1096667129.5186.28.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410011614.28224.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20041001212739.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096667129.5186.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-01 at 17:27, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 04:14:28PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: >>> On Friday 01 October 2004 15:30, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> [...] >> echo is a good thing, lets you see if the result looks sane before >> really doing it. > > At the risk of facing "the wrath of the community" [ :) ] echo is one of > my absolute favorite shell cmds - a lesson learned in Windows/DOS. In Unix-type OSs echo is often not the best command to use, as its behaviour varies from one implementation to another, and can even vary depending on the contents of your PATH, or the options your shell has set, or the way it was compiled. It is better to use printf when you are not absolutely certain of the contents of the arguments. But the principle of showing the results before executing them for real is a very good one. > As per the "Basics of the UNIX Philosophy - Seventeen Steps to > Happiness" (as described in by LinuxFormat), the echo command provides a > solution to a couple of "the rules" : > > - Rule of Clarity - Clarity is better than cleverness. > > - Rule of Simplicity - Design for simplicity; add complexity only where > necessary. > > - Rule of Robustness - Robustness is the the child of Transparency & > Simplicity. Demonstrably false (though probably true with a little qualification). > - Rule of Silence - When a program has nothing surprising to say, it > should say nothing. Is the result of 2 + 2 surprising? I don't think so. So what my calculator supposed to do? > - Rule of Economy - Programmer time is expensive; conserve it in > preference to machine time. On the other hand, especially if it's an interactive program, the time wasted by hundreds or thousands of users could cost far more than the programmer's time. > There are some others, but I'm fairly certain that covers the basics. :) - Rule of Generalization: All such generalizations are false. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From technicol-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 17:14:28 2004 From: technicol-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (George Nicol) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 13:14:28 -0400 Subject: interesting development Message-ID: <415D9074.6050206@eol.ca> The following link points to I, Cringely's "Pulpit" article posted yesterday. The article prominently mentions some outfit in Canada called Starnix. And I guess Evan is too modest to direct our attention that way. I hope he's not too modest to do a presentation for the group in the near future. The Limits of SpongeBob SquarePants | One Canadian's Wireless Neighborhood Network Could Someday Serve Us All | By Robert X. Cringely http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040930.html from the first two paragraphs: "Like many of us, Andrew Greig put a WiFi access point in his house so he could share his broadband Internet connection. But like hardly any of us, Andrew uses his WiFi network for Internet, television, and telephone. He cancelled his telephone line and cable TV service. Then his neighbors dropped-by, saw what Andrew had done, and they cancelled their telephone and cable TV services, too, many of them without having a wired broadband connection of their own. They get their service from Andrew, who added an inline amplifier and put a better antenna in his attic. Now most of Andrew's neighborhood is watching digital TV with full PVR capability, making unmetered VoIP telephone calls, and downloading data at prodigious rates thanks to shared bandwidth. Is this the future of home communications and entertainment? It could be, five years from now, if Andrew Greig has anything to say about it." "The advantage Andrew Greig has over most of the rest of us is that he works for Starnix, an international Open Source software and services consultancy in Toronto, Canada. Starnix, which deals with huge corporate clients, has the brain power to get running what I described above. And it goes much further than that simple introduction." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 14:44:06 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2004 10:44:06 -0400 Subject: GPL'ed our backup program :)! Looking for beta-testers/coders officially Message-ID: <415D6D36.1080106@alteeve.com> Hi all, Wonderful news!! (well, from my point of view). My boss has agreed to release the backup program I have been working on (and asking you all about so much) under the GPL2! I am really happy that he has agreed to do this and now I feel like I can properly ask for help. Admittedly I am quite biased, but I think the backup program has really great potential. Quick recap of what it is: The program is called "TLE-BU" (The Linux Experience BackUp). It used any hard drive partition as a source or destination and it supports hot-swap (via USB/Firewire, SCA, etc) and any file system the underlying OS can read or right. It intelligently decides what files will be backed up to where and does not need care how or where a partition is connected nor whether it is mounted or not. It archives complete file information making it possible to search for files on media that is offline using a very configurable search engine. All of this works already though the program is very much in an alpha state. What I need help with is improving database performance (it is quite DB-intensive... it's strength and it's weakness), security and stability. I think it is quite advanced for where it is at however I also know that it needs a lot of work before it can be considered mature enough to use in production. If you want to help, what you need is a test machine and a few partitions. There is no installer yet (that will come shortly... there is still a few bugs that need to be ironed out) however it is simply a matter of copying the relevant files to the proper directory for whatever web-server you want to use to see. It needs a database (currently only psql is supported but I want to expand this to perl's DBI and any other SQL compatible DB). Other than that it needs a few programs you probably already have: 'blkid', 'sudo', 'fdisk', etc. If anyone is interested in helping or wants to know more, please email me either here or off the list at 'mkelly_at_alteeve_dot_com'. Madison PS - The program is written in perl with a bit of javascript. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 19:54:11 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 15:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <20041001193059.GP8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Now for those filenames that have null's in the name, well you will just > have to deal with those yourself. :) There can be no filename with NUL; it one of only two characters not permitted in a filename. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 01:26:25 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 1 Oct 2004 21:26:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: <200410012106.37575.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200410012106.37575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > On Friday 01 October 2004 04:24 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, John Wildberger wrote: >>> I would like to use the GNU build utiities automake and autoconfig to >>> generate an executable file from a simple c program. > >>> John >> >> Automake/autoconfig tutorials do not fit in an email but did you look at >> 'info automake' -> Examples -> Hello ? >> >> Peter > Well, I have to admit it, I approached this problem with a very simplistic > attitude. My c program is only a few lines long and contains only the bare > minimum to print Hello World. > Following your advice I got hold of the Example "hello-1.3.tar.gz" . > I untared it, then used configure, make and then make install. > Lo and behold I got an executable file called 'hello' that printed happily > 'Hello, World! > Examining all the produced files I was in for some surprises. > The source c file is 263 lines long, > There are 35 files in the source tree. > The configure file is 554 lines long > The Makefile is only 124 lines long. > Most of the other files are a mystery in their makeup and usage. > Enough said, I will stick with simple cc compiler and let the wizards worry > about the GNU build system. Better would be to learn about make. When you write programs that have multiple source files, or source files that are used in more than one executable, your life will be much easier. For example, if you have the files hello.c, what.c and love.c in the same directory, just put these lines in Makefile: all: hello what love hello: hello.o what: what.o love: love.o Now, just typing "make" will compile all three. Typing "make love" will create a "love" executable. If "love" needs some other files, besides love.c change that line: love: love.o money.o Makefiles can get a lot more complicated, but even a simple one can save a lot of work. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 1 02:19:30 2004 From: cpchan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Charles Phlip Chan) Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 22:19:30 -0400 Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: <200409301949.34255.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> (John Wildberger's message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2004 19:49:34 -0400") References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On 30 Sep 2004, wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > I have in directory ~/hello the source (hello.c) of the famous > "Hello World" program. > ... > Question: What sequence of commands are required to achieve my goal? gcc -o hello hello.c Charles -- Your job is being a professor and researcher: That's one hell of a good excuse for some of the brain-damages of minix. (Linus Torvalds to Andrew Tanenbaum) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 188 bytes Desc: not available URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 05:39:04 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 01:39:04 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <1096596810.2797.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040930190918.GA520@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040930232739.GA955@node1.opengeometry.net> <1096596810.2797.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041002053904.GA424@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 10:13:30PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > > while read a eq b; do > > > case $a in > > > celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; > > > place) place=$b ;; > > > updated) updated=$b ;; > > > esac > > > echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" > > > done < weather.sc | sort > > > > Well, there is typo here, but I'll let you find out what it is. :-) > > Oh Mr Parks, you're a BAD MAN !! > > ummmmm updated% should be %updated ?? > while a eq b should be $a eq $b .. ? > the word "case" appears to be spelled backwards, near the end .. > > sigh.. I give up ! > In the old days, we'd use scisors, gluestick, non-repro blue pens and a > photocopier .. those days are gone. I can also splice 1/4" audiotape and > do tube registration on analog BetaCam cameras.. work with wood, wiring > and plumbing. I play eight instruments and speak four languages, but it > seems BASH is not one of them ... > mebbe a clue ? It's not so much typing error, but scripting error. while ...; do case ... in ... esac echo "$place @ ..." done Here 'echo' will run for every line. 'echo' should be placed outside the while-loop, something like ( while ... ; do ... done echo "$place @ ..." ) This would be obvious if you actually tried to run the code. :-/ -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 10:42:35 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 06:42:35 -0400 Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200410020642.35227.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Thursday 30 September 2004 10:19 pm, Charles Phlip Chan wrote: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I have in directory ~/hello the source (hello.c) of the famous > > "Hello World" program. > > ... > > Question: What sequence of commands are required to achieve my goal? > > gcc -o hello hello.c > > Charles I knew that there would be at least one who would come up with this brilliant sugesstion. You just missed my thread opening question : "I would like to *use the GNU build utiities automake and autoconfig* to generate an executable file from a simple c program". John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 08:26:38 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 04:26:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> Now for those filenames that have null's in the name, well you will just >> have to deal with those yourself. :) > > There can be no filename with NUL; it one of only two characters > not permitted in a filename. Maybe on *nixes compiled from Pascal sources ? ;-) (I seem to remember that someone had a requirement to have nuls in filenames ?) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 08:21:32 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 04:21:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: <200410012106.37575.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200410012106.37575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > On Friday 01 October 2004 04:24 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, John Wildberger wrote: >>> I would like to use the GNU build utiities automake and autoconfig to >>> generate an executable file from a simple c program. > >>> John >> >> Automake/autoconfig tutorials do not fit in an email but did you look at >> 'info automake' -> Examples -> Hello ? >> >> Peter > Well, I have to admit it, I approached this problem with a very simplistic > attitude. My c program is only a few lines long and contains only the bare > minimum to print Hello World. > Following your advice I got hold of the Example "hello-1.3.tar.gz" . > I untared it, then used configure, make and then make install. > Lo and behold I got an executable file called 'hello' that printed happily > 'Hello, World! > Examining all the produced files I was in for some surprises. > The source c file is 263 lines long, > There are 35 files in the source tree. > The configure file is 554 lines long > The Makefile is only 124 lines long. > Most of the other files are a mystery in their makeup and usage. > Enough said, I will stick with simple cc compiler and let the wizards worry > about the GNU build system. The point was that that is precisely the example you asked for (the right program too, apparently). It's your choice, just for the record: I seldomly use autoconf because if you write programs cleanly it only takes a few #defines to adjust it to any *nix environment. What autoconf really does is, it provides a way to write those defines in a way that others, and machines, understand. Also, most lines in the source files are comments for your convenience and illustrate how things are done. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 17:54:31 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 13:54:31 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <20041001212739.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410011614.28224.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20041001212739.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041002175431.GA7153@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 05:27:39PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > [...] by default find sticks a -print at the > end unless -exec or something else is there since it figures some side > effect should be performed. That default -print is a gnu find extension - if you are writing a script that needs to be portable to all Unix systems, use an explicit -print. Unfortunately, -print0 is also an extension that was added in gnu's find, so you can't depend upon it either for portability. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 18:10:06 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 14:10:06 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041002181006.GB7153@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 03:54:11PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >Now for those filenames that have null's in the name, well you will just > >have to deal with those yourself. :) > > There can be no filename with NUL; it one of only two characters > not permitted in a filename. To some extent, that is a shared decision of the filesystem and the OS. I can remember a bug in an early NFS implementation that allowed Macintosh clients to create filenames that had a slash in them. (Slash is the other disallowed character.) So, we ended up with files on a Unix filesystem that Unix itself could not refer to, which could *only* be accessed and managed by the Mac system. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 18:29:33 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 14:29:33 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <20041002053904.GA424-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1095357551.2747.25.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916181136.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040930190918.GA520@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040930232739.GA955@node1.opengeometry.net> <1096596810.2797.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041002053904.GA424@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1096741772.2758.31.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Sat, 2004-10-02 at 01:39, William Park wrote: > > It's not so much typing error, but scripting error. > > while ...; do > case ... in > ... > esac > echo "$place @ ..." > done > > Here 'echo' will run for every line. 'echo' should be placed outside > the while-loop, something like > > ( while ... ; do > ... > done > echo "$place @ ..." > ) This makes sense With the repeated "Toronto @" jazz. What about the brackets in the above example ? Should I add a set ? And what about "< weather.sc | sort" ? With it now parked outside the do/done set nothing happens. Obvious again, isn't it ? sigh.. I'll try stuff, but right now it doesn't work, and it's shaped like this; weather.pl > weather.sc while read a eq b; do case $a in celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; place) place=$b ;; updated) updated=$b ;; esac done < weather.sc | sort echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" > > This would be obvious if you actually tried to run the code. :-/ Alright smart-e-pantz, I /did/ run the code. It should have been obvious, and is in retrospect, but I have little experience crafting for/ next loops. From today, when I see unwanted out repeated so, I will know to look in the loop for the offending error. I appreciate your methods, both in programming and in forcing me to consider the workings of the elements. Yeah, I'm learning. I haven't got it working right, but I'm learning. ;-) I fear I'll never actually be good at this, but I's fun taking baby steps. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 18:37:14 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 14:37:14 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <1096741772.2758.31.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040930190918.GA520@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040930232739.GA955@node1.opengeometry.net> <1096596810.2797.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041002053904.GA424@node1.opengeometry.net> <1096741772.2758.31.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041002183714.GA590@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 02:29:33PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > weather.pl > weather.sc > while read a eq b; do > case $a in > celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; > place) place=$b ;; > updated) updated=$b ;; > esac > done < weather.sc | sort > echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" Try weather.pl | ( while read a eq b; do case $a in celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; place) place=$b ;; updated) updated=$b ;; esac done echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" ) | sort Or, if you need 'weather.sc' file, then weather.pl > weather.sc ( ... ) < weather.sc | sort -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 01:44:50 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 21:44:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: strange cups problem Message-ID: I am relatively new to cups and I have a small problem: I can print anything (text, graphics, ps, anything) from command line using lpr ... but many programs (like firefox, acrobat, gimp etc) print raw ps files. How do I fix this ? I have PRINTER set to the name of the cups printer in the environment (not the name of the device, but the symbolic name of the printer in cups). The system is debian based. any ideas are welcome, tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 19:06:05 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 15:06:05 -0400 Subject: :weather script - calling SED heads ! [longish] In-Reply-To: <20041002183714.GA590-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1095359464.2747.32.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040916185227.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095395592.2847.16.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040917143306.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096569157.2901.41.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040930190918.GA520@node1.opengeometry.net> <20040930232739.GA955@node1.opengeometry.net> <1096596810.2797.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041002053904.GA424@node1.opengeometry.net> <1096741772.2758.31.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041002183714.GA590@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1096743965.2758.37.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Sat, 2004-10-02 at 14:37, William Park wrote: > Try > weather.pl | ( while read a eq b; do > case $a in > celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; > place) place=$b ;; > updated) updated=$b ;; > esac > done > echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" > ) | sort > > Or, if you need 'weather.sc' file, then > weather.pl > weather.sc > ( ... ) < weather.sc | sort After several variations, attempting to follow instructions, I still have the weather block unchanged! MATCH: celsius = 14 pressure = 30.00 in / 1016 hPa temperature_celsius = 14 place = Toronto windchill_celsius = wind = 23 mph 37 km/h from the WNW fahrenheit = 57 updated = 2:18 PM EDT on October 02, 2004 windchill_fahrenheit = conditions = Scattered Clouds temperature_fahrenheit = 57 humidity = 63 using weather.pl > weather.sc ( while read a eq b; do case $a in celsius|conditions|humidity|pressure|wind) echo "$a = $b" ;; place) place=$b ;; updated) updated=$b ;; esac done echo "$place @ ${updated% on *}" ) < weather.sc | sort Am I an idjit, or what ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 23:23:02 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:23:02 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1096654524.3669.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20041001193059.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041002232301.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 01, 2004 at 03:54:11PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 1 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > >Now for those filenames that have null's in the name, well you will just > >have to deal with those yourself. :) > > There can be no filename with NUL; it one of only two characters > not permitted in a filename. I assume the other is '/' that you are refering to. I was just kidding about having to deal with nulls. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 2 23:26:15 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 19:26:15 -0400 Subject: strange cups problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041002232615.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 09:44:50PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > I am relatively new to cups and I have a small problem: I can print > anything (text, graphics, ps, anything) from command line using lpr ... > but many programs (like firefox, acrobat, gimp etc) print raw ps files. > How do I fix this ? I have PRINTER set to the name of the cups printer in > the environment (not the name of the device, but the symbolic name of the > printer in cups). The system is debian based. > > any ideas are welcome, tia, Never had a problem like that. You sure you have the right printer model selected? Do you have both lp and lpr (from cups)? Some programs prefer one, some the other. Is a2ps installed? Not that it would make sense since it is converting PS to raster that's likely your desire. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 01:58:58 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 21:58:58 -0400 Subject: GNU Build Utilities In-Reply-To: References: <200409301949.34255.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200410012106.37575.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200410022158.58154.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Sunday 03 October 2004 04:21 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: > The point was that that is precisely the example you asked for (the right > program too, apparently). It's your choice, just for the record: I > seldomly use autoconf because if you write programs cleanly it only takes > a few #defines to adjust it to any *nix environment. What autoconf really > does is, it provides a way to write those defines in a way that others, > and machines, understand. Also, most lines in the source files are > comments for your convenience and illustrate how things are done. >ronment. What autoconf really > does is, it provides a way to write those defi > Peter The example is not what I asked for. It is written from the viewpoint of a user and not from the viewpint of a developer.It has all the steps that are required for a user to generate the executable file "hello' by simple invoking the three steps configure, make and make install. Taking the viewpoint of a developer, I would like to know how the 'Makefile.am' looks like, because this is a script I would have to write so that automake could generate the Makefile.. There are no explanations of the items in the 'configure.in' script,. Again, it would be important to know these items, because I would have to write them so that I could run autoconfig. The content of the 'configure.in' in the info makefile text is entirely different from the one generated from the referenced tarball. Rather confusing, considering this being a tutorial, The problem with info/man pages is, that they are really not intended as learning text, but ruther only as memory aids for those who already know the subject. It is also for this reason that the examples are so longwinded, because they are intended as templetes and as such incorporate all conceivable variations. Again, not very useful for an aspiring novice. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 02:50:57 2004 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sat, 02 Oct 2004 22:50:57 -0400 Subject: Upgrade from Mandrake 9.1 to 10.1 Message-ID: <415F6911.9090407@iprimus.ca> Hello I am considering in upgrading my Mandrake 9.1 computer to 10.1. The mandrake site is sort of vague on details, but some google/linux searches seem to indicate its as "simple" as doing an upgrade from the 10.1 cd's. Has anyone here done this and if so, would they mind commenting on how it went ? Thanks Clive -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel: 416-421-2440 Cell: 416-560-8820 Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Linux Mandrake 9.1 kernel 2.4.21 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 02:57:00 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 22:57:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Upgrade from Mandrake 9.1 to 10.1 In-Reply-To: <415F6911.9090407-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <415F6911.9090407@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, Clive DaSilva wrote: > Hello > > I am considering in upgrading my Mandrake 9.1 computer to 10.1. The mandrake > site is sort of vague on details, but some google/linux searches seem to > indicate its as "simple" as doing an upgrade from the 10.1 cd's. > Has anyone here done this and if so, would they mind commenting on how it > went ? I recommend doing a clean install, ideally on a separate partition, so you have both versions available. But I'd suggested not using 10.1 until the official version is released. Although, if you put it on a separate partition, you can play with it and report bugs. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pegasoft-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 03:42:28 2004 From: pegasoft-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (dan braun) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 23:42:28 -0400 Subject: starnix featured on cringley! Message-ID: http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040930.htm Good Job guys! Dan Braun -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 04:39:29 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang ( Lee )) Date: Sat, 2 Oct 2004 21:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: a talk on this , guys ? Re:starnix featured on cringley! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041003043929.72271.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> it's old news now.. someone reported it already :) maybe they can give a talk on this in TLUG meeting ? Qiang --- dan braun wrote: > http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20040930.htm > > Good Job guys! > Dan Braun > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 06:34:45 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 02:34:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: strange cups problem In-Reply-To: <20041002232615.GS8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041002232615.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Oct 02, 2004 at 09:44:50PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> I am relatively new to cups and I have a small problem: I can print >> anything (text, graphics, ps, anything) from command line using lpr ... >> but many programs (like firefox, acrobat, gimp etc) print raw ps files. >> How do I fix this ? I have PRINTER set to the name of the cups printer in >> the environment (not the name of the device, but the symbolic name of the >> printer in cups). The system is debian based. >> >> any ideas are welcome, tia, > > Never had a problem like that. You sure you have the right printer > model selected? > > Do you have both lp and lpr (from cups)? Some programs prefer one, some > the other. > > Is a2ps installed? Not that it would make sense since it is converting > PS to raster that's likely your desire. cups is installed correctly and runs using the lpr, lpq, lprm commands (besides the web interface). Anything (ps, image, text) printed using lpr from the cli is done right. Nearly everything printed from applications comes out raw, in despite of the printer command being set to lpr. There is only one lpr in the path. lpd was never installed on htis system. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 13:28:51 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 09:28:51 -0400 Subject: a talk on this , guys ? Re:starnix featured on cringley! In-Reply-To: <20041003043929.72271.qmail-n4ilzKb4UWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003043929.72271.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <415FFE93.10106@rogers.com> Qiang ( Lee ) wrote: > it's old news now.. someone reported it already :) Yes, that "news" is so yesterday. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 14:15:00 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 03 Oct 2004 10:15:00 -0400 Subject: a talk on this , guys ? Re:starnix featured on cringley! In-Reply-To: <20041003043929.72271.qmail-n4ilzKb4UWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003043929.72271.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: "Qiang ( Lee )" writes: > it's old news now.. someone reported it already :) > maybe they can give a talk on this in TLUG meeting ? I'll mention it at the office next week. -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 14:25:06 2004 From: hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Hoshil N. Desai) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 10:25:06 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor Message-ID: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> Hi Everyone, We are developing a Web Based Content Management Solution for our internal staff use. This tool is not going to be commercially sold or distributed with any of our other products. We have developed a WYSIWYG editor using Java and IFRAMES, only to discover (towards the end of the development cycle) that the editor does not work under Netscape, Mozilla and most importantly Safari Browser (Mac - Most of our content developers work with them). Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named browsers, one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way around them? If anyone knows of a WYSIWYG editor that works under the above named browsers, please let me know the trick they use to make it work. Thank you, Hoshil -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 15:14:52 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:14:52 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: On Oct 3, 2004, at 10:25 AM, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named > browsers, one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way > around them? This isn't an area where I've done a *lot* of work, but IFRAMEs are definitely supported in Safari. There may be specific uses of them that have problems -- I don't know -- but the feature is there. What do you actually mean by "not supported"? Have you a simple example of something that fails? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 15:46:46 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:46:46 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <4386c5b2041003084634bf44b1@mail.gmail.com> Can't speak to the iframes issue. But I have found this tool called HTMLArea, that is a cross-platform html editor for situations like yours. http://www.interactivetools.com/products/htmlarea/index.html Trouble is, it doesn't work on Safari (I have a Mac myself) but it does work on all Mozilla browsers. So Mac users can use Camino or Firefox to get this functionality. Cheers, Aaron. On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:14:52 -0400, phil wrote: > On Oct 3, 2004, at 10:25 AM, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > > > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named > > browsers, one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way > > around them? > > This isn't an area where I've done a *lot* of work, but IFRAMEs are > definitely supported in Safari. There may be specific uses of them > that have problems -- I don't know -- but the feature is there. > > What do you actually mean by "not supported"? Have you a simple > example of something that fails? > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 18:27:01 2004 From: wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (WK) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:27:01 -0400 Subject: usb to serial adapter Message-ID: <41604475.6070104@halfmind.com> http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/ICUSB232.htm?x=22&y=29 I need more serial ports on my linux box. Anybody know if this adapter works under linux? Or any other (inexpensive) alternatives? Thx, wooi. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 18:49:43 2004 From: Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Nezumikozo) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 14:49:43 -0400 Subject: usb to serial adapter In-Reply-To: <41604475.6070104-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <41604475.6070104@halfmind.com> Message-ID: <416049C7.6000909@sympatico.ca> Startech usually mentions when their products work with Linux, although I am not sure if they test beyond the obvious (cases, etc). You might want to look for the Belkin F5U109, which is reported as working on linux-usb.org. Jay Hoeffer WK wrote: > http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/ICUSB232.htm?x=22&y=29 > > I need more serial ports on my linux box. Anybody know if this > adapter works under linux? Or any other (inexpensive) alternatives? > Thx, > wooi. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 19:53:59 2004 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:53:59 -0400 Subject: Upgrade from Mandrake 9.1 to 10.1 In-Reply-To: References: <415F6911.9090407@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <416058D7.1070402@iprimus.ca> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sat, 2 Oct 2004, Clive DaSilva wrote: > >> Hello >> >> I am considering in upgrading my Mandrake 9.1 computer to 10.1. The >> mandrake site is sort of vague on details, but some google/linux >> searches seem to indicate its as "simple" as doing an upgrade from >> the 10.1 cd's. >> Has anyone here done this and if so, would they mind commenting on >> how it went ? > > > I recommend doing a clean install, ideally on a separate partition, > so you have both versions available. > > But I'd suggested not using 10.1 until the official version is > released. Although, if you put it on a separate partition, you can > play with it and report bugs. > Hello Chris, Thanks for your response. I do not have enough space to create another partition for the 10.1 install, along with my original 9.1 partition, so it looks like clean install (wipe the drive first). Thanks Clive -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel: 416-421-2440 Cell: 416-560-8820 Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Linux Mandrake 9.1 kernel 2.4.21 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 19:57:10 2004 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 15:57:10 -0400 Subject: a talk on this , guys ? Re:starnix featured on cringley! In-Reply-To: References: <20041003043929.72271.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41605996.10607@iprimus.ca> G. Matthew Rice wrote: >"Qiang ( Lee )" writes: > > >>it's old news now.. someone reported it already :) >>maybe they can give a talk on this in TLUG meeting ? >> >> > >I'll mention it at the office next week. > > I think that we should discuss it more. Despite what was reported, I keep wondering if this is legal ? Maybe we can get this guy from Starnix to discuss this project at the Oct TLUG meeting ? Clive -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel: 416-421-2440 Cell: 416-560-8820 Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Linux Mandrake 9.1 kernel 2.4.21 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 20:12:49 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 16:12:49 -0400 Subject: Upgrade from Mandrake 9.1 to 10.1 In-Reply-To: <416058D7.1070402-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <415F6911.9090407@iprimus.ca> <416058D7.1070402@iprimus.ca> Message-ID: <200410031612.50058.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 3, 2004 03:53 pm, Clive DaSilva wrote: > Thanks for your response. I do not have enough space to create another > partition for the 10.1 install, along with my original 9.1 partition, so > it looks like clean install (wipe the drive first). > > Thanks > > Clive Clive, Some context (being an ex-Mandrake user): if you choose to upgrade vs. clean install, you may inherit some widespread bugginess in certain apps that have gone through major changes since 9.1 (particularly KDE and it's minions). If you were going from 10 -> 10.1, I'd say just upgrade, but as you're using 9.1 you may actually be making life easier by simply doing a clean install. Remember to back up your /home and any configuration files you may have manually tweaked elsewhere, regardless of whatever option you pick. If you're going to do a clean install, I'd suggest allowing Mandrake to put /home on a separate partition. That way, you can do a clean install for another version or distro without necessarily wiping out your personal stuff. Personally, I'd wait until 10.1 goes gold (or at least Release Candidate)...Mandrake is not known for their bug-free pre-releases. -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 16:52:55 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 12:52:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: autoconf: my turn to ask questions ;-( (actually sed expert question) Message-ID: While trying to compile pgsql 7.0.3 (yes it has to be that version) on a modern system I have a sed error during configure run. I debugged the scripts generated by the configure script and the sed error boils down to this: A sed script generated by config.status has these lines: s%@CPP@%gcc -E%g s%@CC_VERSION@%gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 (Debian 20040429) Copyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.%g s%@ELF_SYS@%true%g this script generates a sed 's command not terminated' error on the line with CC_VERSION when passed to sed using a command like: sed -f conftest.s1 where conftest.s1 contains the lines above. I seem to have read that sed does not like newlines in the arguments for s and position commands. In that case, what sed version is needed to make the above work, or what escaping can I use to make it work ? sed -V is GNU sed version 4.0.9. I do not know what the version of sed was, under which it previously worked (the script used to work on another, older, version of os). The current system is Debian unstable based. tia, Peter PS: the sed manpage seems to indicate that the newlines in regexps should either be represented as \n or escaped with \ at end of line. I will try \n now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 17:00:49 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 13:00:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: autoconf: my turn to ask questions ;-( (actually sed expert question: answer Message-ID: Fixed. Solution: Ok, the problem is with debian advertising itself too much ... the problem is caused by the gcc veing too verbose. The version is extracted using: CC_FLAGS=`gcc --version` which prints the Debian credo under the version, like this: gcc (GCC) 3.3.3 (Debian 20040429) Copyright (C) 2003 Free Software Foundation, Inc. This is free software; see the source for copying conditions. There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. the fix consists in changing the attribution to: CC_FLAGS=`gcc --version|head -1` bye, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 23:38:46 2004 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 19:38:46 -0400 Subject: Introduction and first request for help (especially with permissions) Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041003185818.02dd6850@mail.eol.ca> Greetings all, After time and time again of being jinxed every time I tried to get Linux installed stable, I was able to get Mandrake 10.0 to work properly, including a stable KDE desktop. For those of you who live perhaps near by and could share a coffee some day, I live in Mississauga, close to a Tim Hortons in the Woodchester Mall (west end just south of Dundas between Erin Mills Pkwy and Winston Churchill). I have done numerous websites over recent years but only with HTML, pre-made javascripts, applets, CSS style sheets, etc. but do not have any modern, Internet programming languages. My largest interest is to get Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP running properly so that I can study them and become competitive again. Just so you know at what level you can converse with me, I have been a PC power user for years (mostly Windows) but also took SCO courses over 12 years ago. I am rusty as nails but it never totally leaves you. Especially starting, it is some of the simplest things that can totally stop a person at first. For instance, now that the Linux is running ok, I checked to see if the Apache2 is operational. I saw the welcome page come up from pointing in a browser to localhost, so I know it is up and running. Next, I am trying to set one at least one virtual server. Once I get one going, I know it should be easy to get others going to, as I need. Ok .... now comes some of what should be simple that I need help on for now ..... When most Linux distros are installed, they ask you want at least one user aside from root and if you would want it to come active on booting. I chose user bill in group bill. Indeed, it becomes active each boot as it should. I also found recently the paths to key Apache parameters. For setting virtual servers, I found /etc/httpd/conf/vhosts. I downloaded and installed Bluefish successfully, so I opened vhosts in it and wrote the changes I needed to start a new virtual host. When I would try to save it, it keeps saying that it cannot save the backup and then that it cannot save the file I am working on. Ok, I can understand that I was working as user "bill" so it would not necessary have the right permissions. However, I then did a su root to get root privileges. I then opened another copy of Bluefish and made the changes again and tried to save --- as root. It still refuses to save(!). Next, I was reminded via a search on Google that users are administrated using DrakeUsers and got that going. I widened the permissions and folders allowed for user bill. I tried to do the required changes again and STILL it will not save! What am I doing wrong? There are a number of configuration files I will have to tweak and will need to have them all save before I can get lots of key programs to work well. Closely related to this ..... When the Linux boots, the current user is bill, so any application that opens is going to inherit the permissions of the user that called it. Is that right? How do I, then, get "root" going? Here are they ways I know so far: - the most common I have used is to change from user bill via su root. However, if a file is already being edited, is there a way to save a file when it will not let me? - I have started a root session via the side menus that ask what kind of terminal you want to start. It works, but because I will be using root quite a bit at first setting up stuff, I wish a root session and terminal would concurrently be active on each bootup. How can I do that? That is enough for a first time :-). If I can get just one virtual web server going where I can practice, I can then go on to get the PHP and MySQL going ensemble, too. With thanks, I am looking forward to your help, (ps. I am open to phone calls, too, if anyone cares to, 905-822-6088 if you are local). Bill Mudry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 3 23:54:13 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 3 Oct 2004 19:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Introduction and first request for help (especially with permissions) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041003185818.02dd6850-9yrvbIq3RigsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041003185818.02dd6850@mail.eol.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 3 Oct 2004, Bill Mudry wrote: > When I would try to save it, it keeps saying that it cannot save the backup > and then that it cannot save the file I am working on. > Ok, I can understand that I was working as user "bill" so it would not > necessary have the right permissions. However, I then > did a su root to get root privileges. I then opened another copy of Bluefish > and made the changes again and tried to save --- as > root. It still refuses to save(!). > > Next, I was reminded via a search on Google that users are administrated > using DrakeUsers and got that going. I widened the > permissions and folders allowed for user bill. I tried to do the required > changes again and STILL it will not save! What am I doing > wrong? There are a number of configuration files I will have to tweak and > will need to have them all save before I can get lots of > key programs to work well. If you have doubts about what user you are running as while in an application try to save a dummy file into /tmp, f.ex. /tmp/foo and then look at its premissions and ownership. this always works unless a file with the same name already exists in tmp and is owned by someone else. In that case choose a different name and try again. > Closely related to this ..... > When the Linux boots, the current user is bill, so any application > that opens is going to inherit the permissions of the user > that called it. Is that right? How do I, then, get "root" going? Here > are they ways I know so far: > > - the most common I have used is to change from user bill via > su root. However, if a file is already being edited, > is there a way to save a file when it will not let me? Save it under another name in your home directory and then exit the application, become root and copy it where it belongs. It is worth your while to keep copies of the original. > - I have started a root session via the side menus that ask > what kind of terminal you want to start. It works, but > because I will be using root quite a bit at first setting > up stuff, I wish a root session and terminal would > concurrently be active on each bootup. How can I do that? What is 'concurrently active on bootup' ? Autostart is achieved by putting a shortcut with the right attributes into the Startup (Autostart) folder of kde, one for each application to be started. good luck, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 01:49:24 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 21:49:24 -0400 Subject: autoconf: my turn to ask questions ;-( (actually sed expert question) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041004014924.5E9514030@cbbrowne.com> > While trying to compile pgsql 7.0.3 (yes it has to be that version) on a > modern system I have a sed error during configure run. I debugged the > scripts generated by the configure script and the sed error boils down to > this: A sed script generated by config.status has these lines: I reported a similar problem when trying to compile a "pretty old" PostgreSQL on RHAT 8 a while back. I think it was 7.1, but it was a while ago, so I'm not certain... The problem turned out to be that the code in configure that was extracting the compiler version assumed that there would be exactly one line of output from "gcc -v" Look in the configure script for where it grabs gcc version information. The relevant line in the latest CVS is thus: { (eval echo "$as_me:$LINENO: \"$ac_compiler -v &5\"") >&5 The fix would be to pipe it to grep and just grab the version information. -- If this was helpful, rate me http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linuxxian.html Never lend your car to anyone to whom you have given birth to. --Erma Bombeck -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 02:02:39 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 22:02:39 -0400 Subject: Introduction and first request for help (especially with permissions) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041003185818.02dd6850-9yrvbIq3RigsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041003185818.02dd6850@mail.eol.ca> Message-ID: <4160AF3F.8080204@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Bill Mudry wrote: | When I would try to save it, it keeps saying that it cannot save the | backup and then that it cannot save the file I am working on. | Ok, I can understand that I was working as user "bill" so it would not | necessary have the right permissions. However, I then | did a su root to get root privileges. I then opened another copy of | Bluefish and made the changes again and tried to save --- as | root. It still refuses to save(!). Even if you change to root in another terminal, the open application will still run as the user who started it (bill). To be able to modify files as root, you should use 'su' to become root and then start the application from the _same_ console. You could also use KDE's "Run Command" box, press "Options", and select which user the application should run as. You can even modify the KMENU item to make it the default. I wouldn't recommend editting files as root. As Peter suggested, it may be best to use an intermediate file. Or perhaps create a separate user to use for editting configuration files (if you need to do it often). | - the most common I have used is to change from user | bill via su root. However, if a file is already being edited, | is there a way to save a file when it will not let me? None that I know off. Use a temporary file. | | - I have started a root session via the side menus that | ask what kind of terminal you want to start. It works, but | because I will be using root quite a bit at first | setting up stuff, I wish a root session and terminal would | concurrently be active on each bootup. How can I do that? If you use Konsole as your terminal emulator, it may be enough to simply leave it running before exitting KDE, and it should be reopened by the session manager. Never tried it with a root shell though. I hope this helps. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBYK88RreNkzrRRLQRAuG+AKCJWz9uryoTnyN5NezbE15hFFfSEACeKG0D rY2IgaZiUOD0eQNqVn92858= =XUiV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 03:27:45 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Sun, 03 Oct 2004 23:27:45 -0400 Subject: linpack/lapack benchmarking Message-ID: <4160C331.8010100@rogers.com> Greetings, After spending the evening installing various fortran compilers, tools and fortran related bits (Blas, etc.). I've yet to be able to compile or run a single usable linpack (http://www.top500.org/lists/linpack.php) test. I've tried it from source, and I've tried it from binaries. I've looked on Freshmeat and I've been to top500.org, netlib.org, etc and grabbed code from there. Not alot of progress. I should mention right here, right now that the only experience I have with Fortran is that I know how to spell it, and that it sounds kinda funny pronouncing it backwards. Anyone have some binaries, code or better yet, a package/tgz that will work/compile/actually run on a fairly up to date system (Pentium 4)? Can someone tell me how the heck I can accurately calculate the MFlops on my box, or show me in the proverbial '10 easy steps' how I can use one of these mathemtical frameworks + libs to load up and make the calculation? That would be way cool of you. I would really like to have a good idea about the various systems in my possesion and how they perform "solving a dense system of linear equations". Regards, Byron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 04:18:50 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:18:50 -0400 Subject: global Xsession Message-ID: <20041004041850.GA24109@butters.southtrak> I usually start X with startx. I have been thinking of using other approaches and have a number of applications that must start before X. Currently I start the applications by loading them before the exec [desktop/wm] line in my .xinitrc. My question is, can a generally set of must run programs be specified when using xdm/gdm/kdm/qingy? I don't want to write and .Xsession for each desktop/wm that I might use. Cheers, Noah -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 04:28:14 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 00:28:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: global Xsession In-Reply-To: <20041004041850.GA24109-y6Pr2RmEDtN2c7wgCBzOK1pr/1R2p/CL@public.gmane.org> References: <20041004041850.GA24109@butters.southtrak> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I usually start X with startx. I have been thinking of using other > approaches and have a number of applications that must start before X. > Currently I start the applications by loading them before the exec > [desktop/wm] line in my .xinitrc. > > My question is, can a generally set of must run programs be specified > when using xdm/gdm/kdm/qingy? I don't want to write and .Xsession for > each desktop/wm that I might use. I've used ~/.xsession with xdm and kdm and (iirc) gdm. Any display manager should honour a .xsession if it finds one. The .xsession is started by the display manager and goes on to start your window manager. You may need to look at how to get .xsession to start your favourite desktop environment. I use fvwm2 which still rocks :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 12:19:26 2004 From: hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Hoshil N. Desai) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 08:19:26 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2041003084634bf44b1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b2041003084634bf44b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041004121938.3FC256D9C9@lethe.ss.org> I just replaced our code with the HTMLArea and it seems to work just fine with the Netscape browsers. I guess the Mac users will have to move to FireFox. Thank you, Hoshil -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Vegh Sent: Sunday, October 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: WYSIWYG Editor Can't speak to the iframes issue. But I have found this tool called HTMLArea, that is a cross-platform html editor for situations like yours. http://www.interactivetools.com/products/htmlarea/index.html Trouble is, it doesn't work on Safari (I have a Mac myself) but it does work on all Mozilla browsers. So Mac users can use Camino or Firefox to get this functionality. Cheers, Aaron. On Sun, 3 Oct 2004 11:14:52 -0400, phil wrote: > On Oct 3, 2004, at 10:25 AM, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > > > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named > > browsers, one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way > > around them? > > This isn't an area where I've done a *lot* of work, but IFRAMEs are > definitely supported in Safari. There may be specific uses of them > that have problems -- I don't know -- but the feature is there. > > What do you actually mean by "not supported"? Have you a simple > example of something that fails? > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 13:14:17 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 09:14:17 -0400 Subject: global Xsession In-Reply-To: References: <20041004041850.GA24109@butters.southtrak> Message-ID: <1096895657.9711.3.camel@localhost> Your suggestion accords with my own guess. However, when I cp ~/.xinitrc ~/.xsession and then start my display manager, the file is not being read. My particular concern is that I use uim-anthy for Japanese input initialize it before starting X. I could create a simple shell script to init the applications that I need, but it would be a hassle to configure the various wm's and de's that I use to work with it. Noah On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 00:28 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > I've used ~/.xsession with xdm and kdm and (iirc) gdm. Any display > manager should honour a .xsession if it finds one. The .xsession is > started by the display manager and goes on to start your window manager. > You may need to look at how to get .xsession to start your favourite > desktop environment. I use fvwm2 which still rocks :) > > Rob > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 13:35:19 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 09:35:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: global Xsession In-Reply-To: <1096895657.9711.3.camel@localhost> References: <20041004041850.GA24109@butters.southtrak> <1096895657.9711.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Noah John Gellner wrote: > Your suggestion accords with my own guess. However, when I cp ~/.xinitrc > ~/.xsession and then start my display manager, the file is not being > read. Interesting. What is the structure of the .xsession file. Create a ~/.xsession containing only a single line with the full path to your window manager and _no_ & at the end of the line. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 14:28:23 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:28:23 -0400 Subject: global Xsession In-Reply-To: <20041004041850.GA24109-y6Pr2RmEDtN2c7wgCBzOK1pr/1R2p/CL@public.gmane.org> References: <20041004041850.GA24109@butters.southtrak> Message-ID: <200410041028.23866.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 04 October 2004 00:18, Noah John Gellner wrote: > My question is, can a generally set of must run programs be specified > when using xdm/gdm/kdm/qingy? I don't want to write and .Xsession for > each desktop/wm that I might use. In Debian there is a directory /etc/X11/Xsession.d/ where various scripts sit. They are executed in a run-parts style. Here's the ones I have: 20xfree86-common_process-args 55gnome-session_gnomerc 92xprint-xpserverlist.sh 30xfree86-common_xresources 90xfree86-common_ssh-agent 99xfree86-common_start 50xfree86-common_determine-startup 92xprint-xpserverlist In the past I have had to allow french and english keyboard layouts, I believe I just put a script in there that checked for the existence of ~/.french ... if the file existed it would call setxkbmap with the appropriate args. Since you didn't mention the distro you use I'm not sure how your configs are setup but I expect most distros allow some variation on the above theme. I like the run-parts style since it means you don't modify your distros default configs when adding your customizations. Just read through all the X startup scripts to see what gets sourced/executed, it shouldn't be too hard to find the right place to do it. Starting point is most likely /etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 14:32:40 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:32:40 -0400 Subject: :Resolved kind of... Samba and fstab Message-ID: Hi All, Ok, so here's what I found. There is a bug in the current kernel 2.6.8-1 that comes with fedora core 2. The samba module does not honor the UID that is specified. There is a patch available on the Samba website to address this issue. I will try to compile the patched modules at some point this week and see what happens. Martin Duclos On Thu, 30 Sep 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >Actually I tend to think konqueror smb://server/share is much simpler >and nicer for regular users to access non permanent mounts. Look into 'teaching' the automounter to mound smb shares. It is painless and efficient. Also unused mounts expire (i.e. if a machine goes down there will be less havoc) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Scan and help eliminate destructive viruses from your inbound and outbound e-mail and attachments. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 15:45:53 2004 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Jim Taylor) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:45:53 -0400 Subject: Apt-get problem ? Message-ID: <200410041145.54226.jim@taylors.ca> I have attempted to install several programs using kpacakge and been unsuccessful. I get this error message; = 4:3.3.0) but 4:3.2.2-2 is to be installed E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution). RESULT=100 I the try # apt-get -f install, which produces this message; Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done Correcting dependencies... Done The following extra packages will be installed: kdelibs-data The following packages will be upgraded: kdelibs-data 1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 766 not upgraded. 17 not fully installed or removed. Need to get 0B/7058kB of archives. After unpacking 1581kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y (Reading database ... 94304 files and directories currently installed.) Preparing to replace kdelibs-data 4:3.2.2-2 (using .../kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb) ... Unpacking replacement kdelibs-data ... Replacing files in old package korganizer ... Replacing files in old package kcontrol ... dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb (--unpack): trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is also in package kmplayer dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) root at 0[jimt]# In the original command an older version of the library is to be installed. The apt-get -f install command appears to be updating the library. I don't understand the error or the error code and does this happen when trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop' ? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 15:44:48 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:44:48 -0400 Subject: Apt-get problem ? In-Reply-To: <200410041145.54226.jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200410041145.54226.jim@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <8810705606.20041004114448@rogers.com> Monday, October 4, 2004, 11:45:53 AM, you wrote: JT> I have attempted to install several programs using kpacakge and been JT> unsuccessful. I get this error message; JT> Reading Package Lists... Done JT> Building Dependency Tree... Done JT> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these: JT> The following packages have unmet dependencies: JT> kdelibs4: Depends: kdelibs-data (>= 4:3.3.0) but 4:3.2.2-2 is to be JT> installed JT> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a JT> solution). JT> RESULT=100 JT> I the try # apt-get -f install, which produces this message; JT> Reading Package Lists... Done JT> Building Dependency Tree... Done JT> Correcting dependencies... Done JT> The following extra packages will be installed: JT> kdelibs-data JT> The following packages will be upgraded: JT> kdelibs-data JT> 1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 766 not upgraded. JT> 17 not fully installed or removed. JT> Need to get 0B/7058kB of archives. JT> After unpacking 1581kB of additional disk space will be used. JT> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y JT> (Reading database ... 94304 files and directories currently installed.) JT> Preparing to replace kdelibs-data 4:3.2.2-2 JT> (using .../kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb) ... JT> Unpacking replacement kdelibs-data ... JT> Replacing files in old package korganizer ... JT> Replacing files in old package kcontrol ... JT> dpkg: error JT> processing JT> /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb JT> (--unpack): JT> trying to overwrite JT> `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is JT> also in package kmplayer JT> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) JT> Errors were encountered while processing: JT> /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb JT> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) JT> root at 0[jimt]# JT> In the original command an older version of the library is to be installed. JT> The apt-get -f install command appears to be updating the library. I don't JT> understand the error or the error code and does this happen when trying to JT> overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop' ? JT> Any help would be appreciated. JT> Thanks JT> Jim Not that I'm a master of apt-get or anything, but on the surface it looks like it's saying that a package required (kdelibs-data) is part of KDE 3.3, whereas you don't have the original pre-3.3 package (3.2.2-2) installed. To this end, what version of KDE are you running? Also, it's a bit odd that 'gimp-help-common' would require elements from KDE 3.3 - is this version of 'gimp-help-common' the same as your other 'gimp' packages? Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 16:16:35 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:16:35 -0400 Subject: strange cups problem In-Reply-To: References: <20041002232615.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041004161635.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 02:34:45AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > cups is installed correctly and runs using the lpr, lpq, lprm commands > (besides the web interface). Anything (ps, image, text) printed using lpr > from the cli is done right. Nearly everything printed from applications > comes out raw, in despite of the printer command being set to lpr. There > is only one lpr in the path. lpd was never installed on htis system. I wonder if some programs generate binary postscript files, and cups thinks they are 'raw' and dumps them as if they were native raw printer commands. Not sure why that would be given it seems to work fine here from the programs I have used and I have cups with raw support (so samba, etc can work with windows users.) Which programs cause problems? Does the output postscript look like ascii postscript or binary junk? What are the first few lines of the postscript? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 16:29:42 2004 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Jim Taylor) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:29:42 -0400 Subject: Apt-get problem ? In-Reply-To: <8810705606.20041004114448-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410041145.54226.jim@taylors.ca> <8810705606.20041004114448@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410041229.42420.jim@taylors.ca> I am running KDE 3.2.2-1 and the current version of GIMP is 2.0.1-2 with an upgraded version to 2.0.5-1 available, not installed. Everything is 2.0.1-2 with help-common 2+0.4-1 and manual 1.0.0-5 and no other versions shown in kpakage, If I attempt to install the KDE upgrade (test) i get the same problem with kdelibs-data anf Kong. Jim On October 4, 2004 11:44 am, Matt Cahill wrote: > Monday, October 4, 2004, 11:45:53 AM, you wrote: > > JT> I have attempted to install several programs using kpacakge and been > JT> unsuccessful. I get this error message; > > JT> JT> Reading Package Lists... Done > JT> Building Dependency Tree... Done > JT> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these: > JT> The following packages have unmet dependencies: > JT> kdelibs4: Depends: kdelibs-data (>= 4:3.3.0) but 4:3.2.2-2 is to be > JT> installed > JT> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or > specify a JT> solution). > JT> RESULT=100 > > JT> I the try # apt-get -f install, which produces this message; > > JT> Reading Package Lists... Done > JT> Building Dependency Tree... Done > JT> Correcting dependencies... Done > JT> The following extra packages will be installed: > JT> kdelibs-data > JT> The following packages will be upgraded: > JT> kdelibs-data > JT> 1 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 766 not upgraded. > JT> 17 not fully installed or removed. > JT> Need to get 0B/7058kB of archives. > JT> After unpacking 1581kB of additional disk space will be used. > JT> Do you want to continue? [Y/n] y > JT> (Reading database ... 94304 files and directories currently installed.) > JT> Preparing to replace kdelibs-data 4:3.2.2-2 > JT> (using .../kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb) ... > JT> Unpacking replacement kdelibs-data ... > JT> Replacing files in old package korganizer ... > JT> Replacing files in old package kcontrol ... > JT> dpkg: error > JT> processing > JT> /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > JT> (--unpack): > JT> trying to overwrite > JT> `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is > JT> also in package kmplayer > JT> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) > JT> Errors were encountered while processing: > JT> /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > JT> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > JT> root at 0[jimt]# > > JT> In the original command an older version of the library is to be > installed. JT> The apt-get -f install command appears to be updating the > library. I don't JT> understand the error or the error code and does this > happen when trying to JT> overwrite > `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop' ? > > JT> Any help would be appreciated. > JT> Thanks > JT> Jim > > Not that I'm a master of apt-get or anything, but on the surface it > looks like it's saying that a package required (kdelibs-data) is part > of KDE 3.3, whereas you don't have the original pre-3.3 package > (3.2.2-2) installed. To this end, what version of KDE are you running? > > Also, it's a bit odd that 'gimp-help-common' would require elements > from KDE 3.3 - is this version of 'gimp-help-common' the same as your > other 'gimp' packages? > > Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 16:21:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:21:03 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20041004162103.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 10:25:06AM -0400, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > We are developing a Web Based Content Management Solution for our internal > staff use. This tool is not going to be commercially sold or distributed > with any of our other products. > > We have developed a WYSIWYG editor using Java and IFRAMES, only to discover > (towards the end of the development cycle) that the editor does not work > under Netscape, Mozilla and most importantly Safari Browser (Mac - Most of > our content developers work with them). > > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named browsers, > one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way around them? > > If anyone knows of a WYSIWYG editor that works under the above named > browsers, please let me know the trick they use to make it work. Well I thought IFRAMEs were supported at least in current versions of mozilla, but I am not entirely sure of that. IFRAME was a microsoft extension to HTML, and I don't know if it is now officially part of HTML or not. Are you sure it is that IFRAMEs are not supported, and not just a problem with the JVM or something similar? Or perhaps trying to use IFRAMEs in a way only IE allows them to be used? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 16:34:11 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:34:11 -0400 Subject: Apt-get problem ? In-Reply-To: <200410041145.54226.jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200410041145.54226.jim@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <200410041234.11364.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 04 October 2004 11:45, Jim Taylor wrote: > dpkg: error > processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > (--unpack): > trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is > also in package kmplayer > dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) > Errors were encountered while processing: > /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > root at 0[jimt]# A bunch of packages require kdelibs-data since that can't be installed your upgrades cannot proceed. It tells you the exact reason why the upgrade is failing "trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is also in package kmplayer" ... dpkg (by default) will not overwrite files belonging to packages other than the one being upgraded. One solution, which I always use and which has yet to bite me, is: dpkg -i --force-overwrite \ /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb That should install kdelibs-data, then do the "apt-get -f install" followed by whatever you were initially trying to do. The joy of unstable packages in transition is that this can crop up more than a few times ... i.e. be prepared to install a few more individual packages with the --force-overwrite option. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 16:43:42 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:43:42 -0400 Subject: global Xsession In-Reply-To: <1096895657.9711.3.camel@localhost> References: <20041004041850.GA24109@butters.southtrak> <1096895657.9711.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20041004164342.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 09:14:17AM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > Your suggestion accords with my own guess. However, when I cp ~/.xinitrc > ~/.xsession and then start my display manager, the file is not being > read. > > My particular concern is that I use uim-anthy for Japanese input > initialize it before starting X. I could create a simple shell script to > init the applications that I need, but it would be a hassle to configure > the various wm's and de's that I use to work with it. Is your .xsession executable and a valid script (starts with #!)? Some display managers have required that at times on some systems. Is the filename right? .xsession or .Xsession? I forget which it is. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 16:44:36 2004 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:44:36 -0400 Subject: Apt-get problem ? In-Reply-To: <200410041145.54226.jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200410041145.54226.jim@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <20041004164436.GA5613@sophocles> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 11:45:53AM -0400, Jim Taylor wrote: > I the try # apt-get -f install, which produces this message; [...] > The following extra packages will be installed: > kdelibs-data > The following packages will be upgraded: > kdelibs-data [...] > dpkg: error > processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > (--unpack): > trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is > also in package kmplayer > dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) > /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb The problem is that there is a file that is in both kmplayer and a newer version of kdelibs-data than you have installed. Apt has been attempting to upgrade from kdelibs-data 3.2.2-2 to kdelibs-data 3.3.0-2, but the common file between kmplayer and (new) kdelibs-data stopped the upgrade. Your KDE installation is currently partially broken, and the file x-ms-wma.desktop is what has caused it, and apt does not want to install gimp-help-common until its previous problems have been resolved. The easiest way to resolve it would be to remove kmplayer, but since you probably want to retain it, you can try removing the line that has "/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop" from /var/lib/dpkg/info/kmplayer.list then retrying "apt-get -f install" or using dpkg to install kdelibs-data with --force-overwrite. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 16:48:26 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 12:48:26 -0400 Subject: Apt-get problem ? In-Reply-To: <200410041234.11364.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200410041145.54226.jim@taylors.ca> <200410041234.11364.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20041004164826.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 12:34:11PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Monday 04 October 2004 11:45, Jim Taylor wrote: > > > dpkg: error > > processing /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > > (--unpack): > > trying to overwrite `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is > > also in package kmplayer > > dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe) > > Errors were encountered while processing: > > /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > > E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) > > root at 0[jimt]# > > A bunch of packages require kdelibs-data since that can't be installed your > upgrades cannot proceed. > > It tells you the exact reason why the upgrade is failing "trying to overwrite > `/usr/share/mimelnk/audio/x-ms-wma.desktop', which is also in package > kmplayer" ... dpkg (by default) will not overwrite files belonging to > packages other than the one being upgraded. > > One solution, which I always use and which has yet to bite me, is: > > dpkg -i --force-overwrite \ > /var/cache/apt/archives/kdelibs-data_4%3a3.3.0-2_all.deb > > That should install kdelibs-data, then do the "apt-get -f install" followed by > whatever you were initially trying to do. The joy of unstable packages in > transition is that this can crop up more than a few times ... i.e. be > prepared to install a few more individual packages with the --force-overwrite > option. The MUCH safer option would be to uninstall the conflicting package kmplayer, temporarily, perhaps if necesary using dpkg -r --force-depends kmplayer so other packages dependancies don't cause a problem. --force-overwrite is a very unwise thing to play with and should only be used if the package maintainer or a debian upgrade note explicitly says it should be used. --force-depends doesn't do anything that the package system won't fix itself very quickly by installing the missing dependancy. Most likely the new kmplayer won't contain that file anymore, and it's simple a mistake that it didn't unpack kmplayer before kdelibs-data in this case, or it should have conflicted with kmplayer. Worth chekcing if a bug report is already files for this problem, and if not, file one. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 17:52:29 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 13:52:29 -0400 Subject: Mozilla, scripts and prefetching links problem Message-ID: <41618DDD.4070705@alteeve.com> Hi all, I noticed an odd problem today that (frustratingly) turned out to be caused by a new Mozilla option in the cache settings called "Link Prefetching". (Under "Tools" -> "Preferences" -> "Advanced" -> "Cache" -> "Link Prefetching" ) The problem arises when it (apparently) prefetches links which actually call a perl script. Specifically the problem arose in my program's web-based file browser when I tried to browse through the directory tree. I would try to click on the icon to show or hide sub-directories (which calls the same script passing some variables in the URL) and it would not call the script. The links are in the format: http://url/cgi-bin/script.cgi?name=val&name=val... Lance suggested using forms instead of passing the values in the URL but the problem with that is that closing the form seems to force a line wrap and I have three items that need to be beside each other. I suppose if worse comes to worse I can create nested tables and place each form in a table cell but I would like to avoid that if I can. So the question is; given that Mozilla enables this prefetch automatically (at least in v1.7.3) is there any way to tell Mozilla not to use this (similar to the 'nocache' option) from the web page? Has anyone else even seen this problem? Does anyone have an alternative idea on how I could prevent or solve this? Thanks!! -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 18:46:58 2004 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Jim Taylor) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:46:58 -0400 Subject: Apt-get problem ? In-Reply-To: <20041004164826.GW8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200410041145.54226.jim@taylors.ca> <200410041234.11364.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20041004164826.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200410041446.58723.jim@taylors.ca> Thank you all, I think my problem is solved. I uninstaled kmplayer with dpkg -r --force-depends kmplayer then ran apt-get -f instal and then used kpackage to install gimp-help-comon. Thanks for the help. -- Jim Taylor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 18:25:51 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 14:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: strange cups problem In-Reply-To: <20041004161635.GT8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041002232615.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20041004161635.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 02:34:45AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> cups is installed correctly and runs using the lpr, lpq, lprm commands >> (besides the web interface). Anything (ps, image, text) printed using lpr >> from the cli is done right. Nearly everything printed from applications >> comes out raw, in despite of the printer command being set to lpr. There >> is only one lpr in the path. lpd was never installed on htis system. > > I wonder if some programs generate binary postscript files, and cups > thinks they are 'raw' and dumps them as if they were native raw printer > commands. Not sure why that would be given it seems to work fine here > from the programs I have used and I have cups with raw support (so > samba, etc can work with windows users.) > > Which programs cause problems? Does the output postscript look like > ascii postscript or binary junk? > > What are the first few lines of the postscript? Parts of a somewhat legal ps preamble imho. It is not sent as binary, it looks like raw ps. The culprits so far are acroreader 5 and gimp as well as opeoffice (I tried that once). I expect firefox etc to behave the same. Thr print command in mozilla is currently: lpr ${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+'-P'}${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME} which looks wrong to me. MOZ_PRINTER_NAME is (I think) PostScript/SymbolicNameOfPrinter (from env("PRINTER")). The latter seems wrong, as it is not a ps printer. So it should not be qualified as PostScript/... no ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 19:26:52 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:26:52 -0400 Subject: strange cups problem In-Reply-To: References: <20041002232615.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20041004161635.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041004192652.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 02:25:51PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Parts of a somewhat legal ps preamble imho. It is not sent as binary, it > looks like raw ps. > > The culprits so far are acroreader 5 and gimp as well as opeoffice (I > tried that once). I expect firefox etc to behave the same. > > Thr print command in mozilla is currently: > > lpr ${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME:+'-P'}${MOZ_PRINTER_NAME} > > which looks wrong to me. MOZ_PRINTER_NAME is (I think) > PostScript/SymbolicNameOfPrinter (from env("PRINTER")). The latter seems > wrong, as it is not a ps printer. So it should not be qualified as > PostScript/... no ? Hmm, not sure about those variables. I tend to go with the defaults. my 'lp' and 'lpr' commands both come from cups and seem to work. Any /etc/printcap file on your machine? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 19:36:51 2004 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:36:51 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <4161A653.2020209@yahoo.ca> Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named > browsers, one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way > around them? iFrames are supported in Mozilla derivatives, at least any of the ones I've worked with, Mozilla and Firefox. > If anyone knows of a WYSIWYG editor that works under the above named > browsers, please let me know the trick they use to make it work. There are some OSS Editors over at Freshmeat, which the plethora of other OSS CMSes often use themselves. One example is; You could take one of the OSS CMSes, and use their editor code, assuming your CMS is going to be OSS itself. Just wondering, why would your organization sees the need for yet another CMS, when there are so many good ones available already? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 19:52:52 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Suggestions for recovery of laptop HDD? Message-ID: Hi folks, A colleague of mine has fried his laptop HDD and has an old, not very current backup. He'd really like to recover the data. Are there any data recovery companies (local or otherwise) that you can recommend -- or not -- in this situation? Windows XP just grinds and announces that there's no disk available, and Knoppix doesn't see the disk either. I don't know what brand of laptop he has, but I can find that out if it will make any difference. Thanks! Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 20:22:34 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:22:34 -0400 Subject: Suggestions for recovery of laptop HDD? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4161B10A.1030201@rogers.com> talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi folks, > > A colleague of mine has fried his laptop HDD and has an old, not very > current backup. He'd really like to recover the data. Are there any data > recovery companies (local or otherwise) that you can recommend -- or not > -- in this situation? > > Windows XP just grinds and announces that there's no disk available, and > Knoppix doesn't see the disk either. I don't know what brand of laptop he > has, but I can find that out if it will make any difference. Thanks! There was a presentation at the TLUG meeting a few months ago, by someone who recovers data. I don't recall the name though. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 22:41:37 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 18:41:37 -0400 Subject: Mozilla, scripts and prefetching links problem In-Reply-To: <41618DDD.4070705-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41618DDD.4070705@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4161D1A1.7040309@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Madison Kelly wrote: | Lance suggested using forms instead of passing the values in the URL | but the problem with that is that closing the form seems to force a line | wrap and I have three items that need to be beside each other. I suppose | if worse comes to worse I can create nested tables and place each form | in a table cell but I would like to avoid that if I can. You can try using the "display:inline" CSS property inside your form element to eliminate the line breaks. Or perhaps adjust the margins using CSS/"style=" elements. I don't know how many of the properties work on forms though. I am don't know how to disable the actual feature in Mozilla. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBYdGgRreNkzrRRLQRAhLaAJ91Uv6CXyl84zBNStPmee68jFsC+wCcCxFR 7ULmI2q9lXwyU5mDI5niedU= =90sH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 23:42:39 2004 From: skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Srinivasan Krishnan) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:42:39 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <20041004162103.GU8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> <20041004162103.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1096933358.27553.11.camel@ambipapa> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 12:21, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 10:25:06AM -0400, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > > > > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named browsers, > > one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way around them? > > > > If anyone knows of a WYSIWYG editor that works under the above named > > browsers, please let me know the trick they use to make it work. > > Well I thought IFRAMEs were supported at least in current versions of > mozilla, but I am not entirely sure of that. > > IFRAME was a microsoft extension to HTML, and I don't know if it is now > officially part of HTML or not. > > Are you sure it is that IFRAMEs are not supported, and not just a > problem with the JVM or something similar? Or perhaps trying to use > IFRAMEs in a way only IE allows them to be used? > A quick look at the Index Dot Html website shows iframes to be supported by IE >= 3, Netscape 6.1 and Opera 4. The URL is http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/i/iframe.htm. Krishnan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 4 23:55:25 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:55:25 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <1096933358.27553.11.camel@ambipapa> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> <20041004162103.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096933358.27553.11.camel@ambipapa> Message-ID: <4386c5b204100416555148b149@mail.gmail.com> Interestingly, I tried the example given on the referenced page in Safari, and it worked fine. > A quick look at the Index Dot Html website shows iframes to be supported > by IE >= 3, Netscape 6.1 and Opera 4. The URL is > http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/i/iframe.htm. Aaron. On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:42:39 -0400, Srinivasan Krishnan wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 12:21, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 10:25:06AM -0400, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named browsers, > > > one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way around them? > > > > > > If anyone knows of a WYSIWYG editor that works under the above named > > > browsers, please let me know the trick they use to make it work. > > > > Well I thought IFRAMEs were supported at least in current versions of > > mozilla, but I am not entirely sure of that. > > > > IFRAME was a microsoft extension to HTML, and I don't know if it is now > > officially part of HTML or not. > > > > Are you sure it is that IFRAMEs are not supported, and not just a > > problem with the JVM or something similar? Or perhaps trying to use > > IFRAMEs in a way only IE allows them to be used? > > > > A quick look at the Index Dot Html website shows iframes to be supported > by IE >= 3, Netscape 6.1 and Opera 4. The URL is > http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/i/iframe.htm. > > Krishnan > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 00:19:50 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 20:19:50 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204100416555148b149-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> <20041004162103.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096933358.27553.11.camel@ambipapa> <4386c5b204100416555148b149@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8eb589e041004171937695f89@mail.gmail.com> Just fyi, there is a plugin called Adblock or something like that, which will actually block iframes and pictures that you consider advertisements or that you dont want to see.... On Mon, 4 Oct 2004 19:55:25 -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Interestingly, I tried the example given on the referenced page in > Safari, and it worked fine. > > > A quick look at the Index Dot Html website shows iframes to be supported > > by IE >= 3, Netscape 6.1 and Opera 4. The URL is > > http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/i/iframe.htm. > > > Aaron. > > On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:42:39 -0400, Srinivasan Krishnan > > > wrote: > > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 12:21, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 10:25:06AM -0400, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > > > > > > > > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named browsers, > > > > one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way around them? > > > > > > > > If anyone knows of a WYSIWYG editor that works under the above named > > > > browsers, please let me know the trick they use to make it work. > > > > > > Well I thought IFRAMEs were supported at least in current versions of > > > mozilla, but I am not entirely sure of that. > > > > > > IFRAME was a microsoft extension to HTML, and I don't know if it is now > > > officially part of HTML or not. > > > > > > Are you sure it is that IFRAMEs are not supported, and not just a > > > problem with the JVM or something similar? Or perhaps trying to use > > > IFRAMEs in a way only IE allows them to be used? > > > > > > > A quick look at the Index Dot Html website shows iframes to be supported > > by IE >= 3, Netscape 6.1 and Opera 4. The URL is > > http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/i/iframe.htm. > > > > Krishnan > > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net for fast afforable and relibable web hosting Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 01:38:56 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 21:38:56 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB Message-ID: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, I am currently involved in an effort to get the TDSB (the Toronto school board) to agree to beta-test Linux as an OS for the clients on its board-wide network. I've made contact with some of the people close / at the IT management top, as well as the support folks, etc. The Standards and Practices committee seems quite intimidating at this point, I see them as largely conservative. Although several schools have already tried and do run Linux as part of their Comp. Sci. programs, they seem to mostly use stand-alone workstations or small server + thin client labs. I intend to get Linux to be used as a client on the whole network and actually be approved for that use. Can anyone suggest any strategies on how to best promote this idea or what _not_ to do? To start, I'd like to test Linux (still deciding on the distro, gravitating towards SUSE 9.1, on my home system, it replaced windows with the least effort and most compatibility) on a few machines. From this I intend to prove that Linux is a viable substitute for Win2K while maintaining the quality of the user experience and achieving more in terms of security, stability, and system uptime. I realize that this is very much of an uphill battle and that the idea will require quite a bit of leverage to even be listened to. I've written a brief essay on why using OSS and Linux would be of benefit in the educational system, just touching on the key issues and benefits (i.e. large numbers of universities already use it, even outside CS/engineering labs). I can include it in my next message (this one is already too long :-) Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 01:48:32 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:48:32 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4161FD70.4050301@rogers.com> Igor Denisov wrote: > I've written a brief essay on why using OSS and Linux would be of > benefit in the educational system, just touching on the key issues and > benefits (i.e. large numbers of universities already use it, even > outside CS/engineering labs). > I can include it in my next message (this one is already too long :-) One thing you can point out, is that Linux supports Star Office, which the provincial government recently signed a large deal for, for use in schools. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 01:54:46 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 21:54:46 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <20041004162103.GU8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> <20041004162103.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1096941285.3687.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Guess this isn't particularly helpful, but maybe worth mentioning: > Well I thought IFRAMEs were supported at least in current versions of > mozilla, but I am not entirely sure of that. They are at least in v1.4.1; I like Iframes and prefer to write webstuff for Mozilla as opposed to IE, but... > Are you sure it is that IFRAMEs are not supported, and not just a > problem with the JVM or something similar? Or perhaps trying to use > IFRAMEs in a way only IE allows them to be used? ... in a perl object I'm working on, I discovered I couldn't use jscript to write html to Mozilla-hosted Iframes. Works just fine with IE. Basically, I wanted to use IFrames as "scroll-window widgets," but need them to work in Mozilla as well as IE. I've been scratching my head at trying to figure out a workaround. - Scott. -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 02:09:34 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:09:34 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <4161FD70.4050301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <4161FD70.4050301@rogers.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f0410041909b9d72e5@mail.gmail.com> Thanks for that idea, I feel that I really need the backing for this thing, a few universities and the government using the same OS/ software _might_ do :-) Another big plus though: OpenOffice (pretty much StarO.) is already included, even in the free iso, as are most of the programs used by the students (aka me). I am not about to go deeply into the TCO anaysis here, that's why it is a _beta_ test (read grassroots and volunteer, unpaid, can't ask the board to buy anything just yet.) There is a FirstClass client and the ubiquitous Geometer's Sketchpad I belive has a Java implementation for Linux (not concrete on the details). Frankly, it seems that Linux has a better chance to get on the board network than do the eMacs. (OS X seems to have nothing but connectivity issues with the main TDSB server, which is why none, at least at my school, are networked). The essay minus the references and glossary, meant as a converstion starter/ quick outline, real info will come in the post-beta test report: (sorry, this message is a _bit_ long :-) Safer, Faster, Better: Linux in a Classroom Setting Linux defies convention. From its humble beginnings as Linus Torvald's personal project, it has advanced to making headlines in mainstream media1. The remarkable operating system has spawned over 300 unique, specialized distributions2. It is also backed by the IT industry giants such as IBM and Novell. However, even with all of this corporate support, Linux has yet to "sell out" on its founding principles. It remains Open Source, free, and largely community-driven. Thanks to the effort and dedication of the Open Source community, Linux is now at a point where it can easily serve as a fully-featured desktop operating system. What does all this have to do with schools? A great deal: so far, the vast majority of public education institutions have relied on proprietary software to fulfill the needs of students. The TDSB has recently completed its transition to a large, board-wide computer network. The operating system of choice appears to be Microsoft Windows 2000. Although it is about five years old, it runs most of the common applications with reasonable speed on mostly off-lease hardware. The migration to Windows XP, recently made more secure by Service Pack 2, is hardly a feasible option as a significant fraction of the current hardware will have trouble supporting it. What choices will exist for the TDSB in just a few years? Stick to a tried and true, yet aging Windows 2000? Upgrade all hardware, spending on something that can run Windows XP? In 2006, the new version of Windows, codename "Longhorn" is due for release. It will likely to cause problems with backwards compatibility and undoubtedly require better hardware than that needed to run Windows 2000. Linux, and in the expanded sense Open Source software, has the power to solve these problems in an easy, cost-effective, and efficient way. Linux has several core advantages over anything Microsoft or any other proprietary-source company can offer. It is free, can solve a Windows-only monoculture, and is one of the most secure operating systems because it was originally designed to be that way. As an additional benefit, Linux can run on relatively obsolete hardware and still provide a better, safer, and faster experience in the classroom. FREEDOM Linux is and always was free. This freedom exists in two important ways. Firstly, all of the Linux source code is available. This allowed and continues to allow the Linux community to scrutinize and fix the bugs in every part of the operating system. Based on the scale, effective scope, and speed, conventional debugging methods of proprietary-source companies pale when compared to such a massive group of skilled volunteers. The easy availability of source code can also help improve the educational experience of students. In courses that involve programming, they can dissect a part of the Linux kernel or a TCP/IP stack to learn how it actually works, instead of coding the usual "Hello World" programs. The applications of Linux in Computer Science courses are virtually limitless: it can provide students with working examples and the source code of programs that power anything and everything from web servers to supercomputers. Closed-source, proprietary programs and operating systems by definition fail to include the source code and thus do not allow this level of learning. Linux is also free in the sense of being available at no cost. This is why it is such an attractive choice for anyone looking for cost efficiency. It is in no way a cut back, restricted-use, or a demo version. The free versions of Linux distributions are fully functional, robust operating systems. Unlike all versions of Microsoft Windows, most Linux distributions already come equipped with everything a user might need. This includes a complete office suite, powerful graphics editors, and a range of system management, editing, and software development tools. The on-line update programs, present in most popular Linux distributions, also have advantages over Windows Update. YOU, the update program in SUSE Linux, will automatically detect the software installed and look for updates, even if the programs weren't included with the original distribution. This ensures that everything is up-to-date and therefore more functional and secure. MONOCULTURE In biology, students learn the harmful effects of monocultures on the environment. However, to experience one, all they have to do is visit the computer lab. When compared with the PCs, Apple computers are few and far between. As a result, Windows is the dominant operating system. Although this might make some aspects of a system administrators' jobs easier, in the long run, there are few benefits for those that use the computers. Students are not challenged by having to use the same operating system repeatedly. Eventually, most tasks become mindless and automated. Linux will not require students to completely re-learn everything they know about computers. It will simply point them to alternatives, and ultimately, solutions that are more efficient. In Linux, there is a built-in option of multiple desktops. Even if the monitor resolution is low, as is often the case with small monitors, students can still get all the virtual workspace they need to organize all open programs. This is yet another advantage that Linux has over Microsoft Windows. Linux, although not drastically different in its user interface, is not anything like what the TDSB computers run now. It is not susceptible to the same security threats or exploits that a Windows machine might be. The number of viruses that affect Linux is virtually insignificant3, especially when compared to how many prey on Microsoft products. Mac OS X, an excellent operating system than runs on the school board's Apple eMacs, is based upon BSD, a "flavour" of Unix. This gives it some relation and similarity to Linux in its origin, structure, and level of security. However, unlike Mac OS, Linux does not require special hardware: it can run on both Macs and PCs. By adding Linux to the roster of operating systems deployed on the school computers, higher overall redundancy will be another benefit: if all Windows machines succumb to a quick-spreading worm or virus, the computers running Linux will maintain their functionality. TECHNICAL SUPERIORITY Linux is efficient. It wastes few processor cycles on unneeded programs that run in the background and manages multiple tasks with a high degree of efficiency. Even the latest releases require "relatively modest computing resources"4. As such, they are able to run on hardware that would be considered obsolete for a Windows environment. Almost every version of Windows is built on top of the previous one. This means that even the latest version, XP, continues have some of the same issues as its predecessors. Microsoft is aware that the window management system in Windows is inherently insecure5. However, little has been done to fix it. Microsoft has also integrated its Internet browser, Internet Explorer, into the Windows kernel. Although this arguably gave the corporation an edge over its competitors, the move also made every insecurity of the browser6 an insecurity of the whole operating system. This is one of the reasons for the abundance of patches for Internet Explorer and why Microsoft plans to rewrite everything in Windows by 2006, producing its Longhorn OS. Linux, on the other hand, does not have anything unnecessary, like an Internet browser, built into the kernel. Instead, it clearly defines and separates the kernel space, used by the operating system, and the user space. Linux also offers several choices for the user interface, and its window management system is much more robust7. An application crash can cause the loss of all work in every application on a Windows system, while in Linux, only the one that malfunctioned will be affected. To a student working on a research project or an end-of-term paper, the difference between an application crash in Windows and Linux is enormous. COMPATIBILITY At this point, using Linux in a classroom setting would present few issues with format compatibility. All of the major, most common formats found when working in a Windows environment are supported under Linux. OpenOffice offers virtually perfect compatibility with Microsoft Office document formats. Mozilla Firefox, an Open Source, Netscape-based browser has the same functionality as Internet Explorer minus the security and adware issues8. There is also a Linux First Class client available for use with the school board's TEL system. Virtually every program currently used on TDSB computers has an Open Source equivalent that can be utilized under Linux. Emulation, through WINE, is also a possibility. PLANNING FOR THE FUTURE It is not an accident that many universities already use Linux9. It low cost, high security, power, and relative ease of use make it perfect for anyone, from a freshman to a PhD researcher. The latest addition to the list of educational institutions that run Linux is Acadia University. This Canadian university decided to run Xandros, a Windows-like distribution of Linux, on the computers distributed to undergraduates and professors10. Since the operating system is Open Source, it can be customized with little effort. This allowed Acadia University to tailor Xandros to its faculty's particular needs and requirements, as well as implement its wireless network. Linux is an operating system that many high school graduates will encounter as they will move on in life. If they will acquire the skill of working in a Linux environment while still in high school, they will be better prepared for their post-secondary destinations. There, rather than concentrating on learning the equivalents of Windows programs and adapting to the new computing environment, they can spend their time more productively at work or post-secondary study. Linux, along with all Open Source software, is going to play an increasingly bigger role in IT in the future. Its revolutionary method of development and licensing results in lower costs, better performance, and higher stability and security. It is already fast becoming the operating system of choice in many universities. By exposing secondary school students to Linux, they will be given an chance to work with a secure, robust, fast, and simply world-class operating system. This will result expand their knowledge, show them alternatives to the ubiquitous Windows OS, and allow them to become prepared for Linux and Open Source in the workplace, colleges, and universities. Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 02:21:33 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:21:33 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 09:38:56PM -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > Hello all, > > I am currently involved in an effort to get the TDSB (the Toronto > school board) to agree to beta-test Linux as an OS for the clients on > its board-wide network. > > I've made contact with some of the people close / at the IT management > top, as well as the support folks, etc. > The Standards and Practices committee seems quite intimidating at this > point, I see them as largely conservative. > > Although several schools have already tried and do run Linux as part > of their Comp. Sci. programs, they seem to mostly use stand-alone > workstations or small server + thin client labs. > I intend to get Linux to be used as a client on the whole network and > actually be approved for that use. > > Can anyone suggest any strategies on how to best promote this idea or > what _not_ to do? Go with Thin Clients approach. But, it really depends on what they want to do. Do they want just email/dns/firewall/fileserver/... or do they want to run MS-Office with 100% compatibility? If first, Linux is very good choice. If second, then MS-Office already gives you 100% compatability without staff retraining. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 02:31:57 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 22:31:57 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <1096941285.3687.26.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> <20041004162103.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096941285.3687.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4162079D.5000008@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Scott Elcomb wrote: | | Basically, I wanted to use IFrames as "scroll-window widgets," but need | them to work in Mozilla as well as IE. | | I've been scratching my head at trying to figure out a workaround. You can do it using styles (for example CSS), by setting "overflow: scroll". For example, use 'style="overflow:scroll"' in any tag like a div. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBYgecRreNkzrRRLQRAlQbAJ9y5dmEe39nj3FzIrR5pz3IxNl9RQCfdfKp gENL25EPKdWUvY1ZrDps88o= =bj+a -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 02:33:59 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:33:59 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <20041005022133.GA7816-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> I intend to present Linux as a n alternative for Win2K for the network clients. Each is basically an off-the-shelf PC, fully functional on its own, but also able to log on to the board-wide netowork and connect to the user's shared drive. I have a plan for the connecting-to-share part, the user authentication, etc, but I assume the board will also want fairly strict user privilege controls (hands-off browser history, than kind of thing), something I have little experience with (besides not running as root :-) As for compatibility, OpenOffice will do fine, no one really knows or seems to care about MS Office's more advanced functionality, most people would be fine using Notepad :-) In my essay, I mention how the life of the hardware can be prolonged with LInux, most distros, even in their latest iterations, can be lightened and run on the usual board PII-400 with 128 MB ram. When they'll go for XP/Longhorn, they'll need an upgrade (heck, they need an upgrade _now_), with Linux, they won't for a while. I plan to make an official proposal in a few weeks, so far, I've been approaching the head of IT and others with the idea to get an idea about the current attitude towards OSS/Linux. Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 02:57:48 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:57:48 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041005025748.GA8018@node1.opengeometry.net> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 10:33:59PM -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > As for compatibility, OpenOffice will do fine, no one really knows or > seems to care about MS Office's more advanced functionality, most > people would be fine using Notepad :-) But, be advised that OpenOffice's Comments (or Notes) feature is screwed up. Apress.com (a book publisher), for example, is about to ban OpenOffice. > > In my essay, I mention how the life of the hardware can be prolonged > with LInux, most distros, even in their latest iterations, can be > lightened and run on the usual board PII-400 with 128 MB ram. When > they'll go for XP/Longhorn, they'll need an upgrade (heck, they need > an upgrade _now_), with Linux, they won't for a while. > > I plan to make an official proposal in a few weeks, so far, I've been > approaching the head of IT and others with the idea to get an idea > about the current attitude towards OSS/Linux. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 02:58:24 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Mon, 4 Oct 2004 22:58:24 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f0410041909b9d72e5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <4161FD70.4050301@rogers.com> <96aa4e8f0410041909b9d72e5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b204100419586d873074@mail.gmail.com> You're taking on a big task here. Best of luck! Here are some of my thoughts/suggestions on how to approach this: - consider the format of your proposal. An essay offers maximum detail, but may never be properly absorbed by your recipients. A powerpoint (created in OOo?) would do better by covering off the major points. - you're painting too rosy a picture of Linux, and I suspect some might wonder where the downside is. There IS downside, and you need to address it point-by-point. Be realistic and honest with yourself here. - Nobody's ever been fired for going with MS. Why should these conservative folks make a move? Here's a hint: get the dollar amounts of the current system, and put together as part of your proposal a set of figures for a Linux ecosystem. Be sure to include tech support, and explain how they'll be trained and where they'll come from. As well, there was a thread recently here about FirstClass for Linux; the consensus was that it didn't exist. You might want to start a new thread with any info on that you might have. Cheers! Aaron. P.S. WINE is Not an Emulator! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 03:54:32 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 23:54:32 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 As a current TDSB student and having helped out with my school's IT department, I think I can offer some pointers. Not sure how generally these will apply though. Igor Denisov wrote: | I intend to present Linux as a n alternative for Win2K for the network clients. This would work best in general-purpose computer labs, for example at the library, where the main use is web browsing, e-mail, and word processing/printing documents. | Each is basically an off-the-shelf PC, fully functional on its own, | but also able to log on to the board-wide netowork and connect to the | user's shared drive. I have a plan for the connecting-to-share part, | the user authentication, etc, You would have to find a way of authenticating users from an NT Domain Server at least at first. These servers are school-run for now. Worse yet, some of the servers are Novell. Some students would also have to have access to a personal folder on the server which is shared with Windows. | | but I assume the board will also want fairly strict user privilege | controls (hands-off browser history, than kind of thing), something I | have little experience with (besides not running as root :-) They mostly don't want people changing the look of the desktop when using a shared login (ex. at the library). Otherwise the standard permissions should work well. Obviously no browsing other people's files, etc. You may need access control lists or something similar, as the user/group system could get very complex. | | As for compatibility, OpenOffice will do fine, no one really knows or | seems to care about MS Office's more advanced functionality, most | people would be fine using Notepad :-) Here are some caveates to watch for: The Graphics Design and Photography classes teach Photoshop and Pagemaker, because they are the tools professionals use. Ideally, these tools should be used on a Mac (our school does video editing on Macs), but $$$ constraints means that PCs are used for this. It's and important area to think about. Computer Science courses use that stupid language/program called "Turing" which has no equivalence anywhere (probably because it's so stupid). Never the less, it teaches the basics with a "visual" response (i.e. drawing circles, etc.). Perhaps a Perl library providing a simplified GDI and a GTK or QT output window would do well. Also, they teach some VB to introduce event-driven GUI programming, which may be a little hard to beat (the people who take those classes are the last people you expect to touch a computer; they know NOTHING). Disecting the Linux Kernel is way above the curriculum. Another program is called Markbook as far as I know. It's designed to keep track of marks, and A LOT of teachers are attached to it. Perhaps Wine/Crossover Office would be of help here. Also a good idea to have a program that can read Microsoft Publisher files. Some people at our school use that for making Zines and some other assignments, and I recall that the library has Microsoft Publisher installed. A final very important point is ease of deployment. The system must be capable of installing itself, fully configured (minus DNS/computer name) unattended. From what I hear, only Slackware can do it, but I think an RPM or DEB based system can be installed using some custom scripts. Perhaps a system where the school can configure one computer, and then take a "snapshot" of its configuration to copy to other computers. I've done Debian installes completely from the command line by using "dbootstrap" I believe (probably the wrong name). | | I plan to make an official proposal in a few weeks, so far, I've been | approaching the head of IT and others with the idea to get an idea | about the current attitude towards OSS/Linux. Good luck with that, and please inform us of how it goes. Perhaps you should create a seperate mailing list for this discussion; after all, the TDSB is important to the "education" aspect of the long-term Linux domination strategy :). I will probably add some more ideas later. It's a very interesting project, and perhaps I'll be able to help somehow. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBYhr2RreNkzrRRLQRAo2GAKCUzlY7QwsU0xsHn8nTK0EowkGAogCeL9eH fusPYIOgJLwyp3NGb1wQJNw= =Usva -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 05:18:15 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 01:18:15 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <20041005025748.GA8018-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <20041005025748.GA8018@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1096953494.2735.77.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 22:57, William Park wrote: > But, be advised that OpenOffice's Comments (or Notes) feature is screwed > up. Apress.com (a book publisher), for example, is about to ban > OpenOffice. First I've heard of it. Do you know if this is true of StarOffice, too ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 08:28:59 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:28:59 +0200 (IST) Subject: bash question Message-ID: I have asked this before: how does one expand parameters in bash for indirection ? Specifically: foo=123 bar=foo now, what do I do to get the contents of foo knowing bar. I.e.: baz=?!?(bar) such that baz=123 (find the ?!? operator, without using the name foo explicitly). I tried various ${:=} etc expansions with no luck. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 09:40:22 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 05:40:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > I have asked this before: how does one expand parameters in bash for > indirection ? > > Specifically: > > foo=123 > bar=foo > > now, what do I do to get the contents of foo knowing bar. I.e.: > > baz=?!?(bar) such that baz=123 > > (find the ?!? operator, without using the name foo explicitly). I tried > various ${:=} etc expansions with no luck. In bash: baz=${!bar} In any Bourne-type shell (including bash): eval baz=\$$bar -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 10:49:20 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:49:20 -0500 Subject: Linux in PDSB Message-ID: <416235E0.29814.4484B86D@localhost> Some good news. I have been doing an LTO in Brampton, and I have found out that the Peel District School Board runs Novell servers, and their computers (at least at my school anyway) run Lilo boot loaders. You can see not just Lilo, but also the Linux kernel itself loading, although you still end up with the 95/98/XP operating system once the kernel connects to the Novell server on an end user machine. The servers at our board is solid Linux. The "Wiring Closet" is at the back of the upstairs staff room, and in the server monitor you can see the familiar linux system messages (familiar both in the sense of the messages, and that unlike Windows servers, the display is a console display, not a graphical one). A further selling point, which you can relate to the big shots at TDSB. Paul King ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 12:13:39 2004 From: hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Hoshil N. Desai) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:13:39 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204100416555148b149-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204100416555148b149@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041005121349.32AF16DAB0@lethe.ss.org> I wanted to thank everyone for the links and information. The HTMLArea tool from interactive worked best. We have tried various Open Source CMS tools out there and all of them are excellent tools, but they all lacked in the work-flow area one way or the other. We are a large organization and only a few people are allowed to update/edit/delete live content on the website and individuals and groups are allowed to create content but not allowed to make it live until certain level of administration approved it, also there was certain areas where part of the content could be made live and the rest of it required some sort of authorization. None of the Open Source tools gave us any real control over the work-flow. I am not saying that the work-flow level does not exist but it's not enough for our organization. Secondly, we have a C++ based rule engine which defines all the work-flow levels, and instead of porting the rule engine, it was just easier creating a CMS that would work effortlessly with our rule engine. On top of that, our CMS tool took two weeks and 4 programmers to accomplish 6 great modules, all with their specific department level or area level work flows. Thank you all for the links/information. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Aaron Vegh Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 7:55 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: WYSIWYG Editor Interestingly, I tried the example given on the referenced page in Safari, and it worked fine. > A quick look at the Index Dot Html website shows iframes to be supported > by IE >= 3, Netscape 6.1 and Opera 4. The URL is > http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/i/iframe.htm. Aaron. On Mon, 04 Oct 2004 19:42:39 -0400, Srinivasan Krishnan wrote: > On Mon, 2004-10-04 at 12:21, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 03, 2004 at 10:25:06AM -0400, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know why IFRAMES are not supported in the above named browsers, > > > one reason I can think of is security, does any one of a way around them? > > > > > > If anyone knows of a WYSIWYG editor that works under the above named > > > browsers, please let me know the trick they use to make it work. > > > > Well I thought IFRAMEs were supported at least in current versions of > > mozilla, but I am not entirely sure of that. > > > > IFRAME was a microsoft extension to HTML, and I don't know if it is now > > officially part of HTML or not. > > > > Are you sure it is that IFRAMEs are not supported, and not just a > > problem with the JVM or something similar? Or perhaps trying to use > > IFRAMEs in a way only IE allows them to be used? > > > > A quick look at the Index Dot Html website shows iframes to be supported > by IE >= 3, Netscape 6.1 and Opera 4. The URL is > http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/html/tagpages/i/iframe.htm. > > Krishnan > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 01:42:03 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 01:42:03 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Linux in the TDSB Message-ID: Hello all, I am currently involved in an effort to get the TDSB (the Toronto school board) to agree to beta-test Linux as an OS for the clients on its board-wide network. I've made contact with some of the people close / at the IT management top, as well as the support folks, etc. The Standards and Practices committee seems quite intimidating at this point, I see them as largely conservative. Although several schools have already tried and do run Linux as part of their Comp. Sci. programs, they seem to mostly use stand-alone workstations or small server + thin client labs. I intend to get Linux to be used as a client on the whole network and actually be approved for that use. Can anyone suggest any strategies on how to best promote this idea or what _not_ to do? To start, I'd like to test Linux (still deciding on the distro, gravitating towards SUSE 9.1, on my home system, it replaced windows with the least effort and most compatibility) on a few machines. From this I intend to prove that Linux is a viable substitute for Win2K while maintaining the quality of the user experience and achieving more in terms of security, stability, and system uptime. I realize that this is very much of an uphill battle and that the idea will require quite a bit of leverage to even be listened to. I've written a brief essay on why using OSS and Linux would be of benefit in the educational system, just touching on the key issues and benefits (i.e. large numbers of universities already use it, even outside CS/engineering labs). I can include it in my next message (this one is already too long :-) Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 12:40:40 2004 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:40:40 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <41621AF8.2010205-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 11:54:32PM -0400 References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20041005084040.A2899@ee.ryerson.ca> Anton Markov wrote: > Also, they teach some VB to introduce event-driven GUI programming, > which may be a little hard to beat (the people who take those classes > are the last people you expect to touch a computer; they know NOTHING). > Disecting the Linux Kernel is way above the curriculum. The Tcl/Tk language is an open-source alternative for event-driven programming that runs under Linux, Unix, Windows and Mac. There's a lot of support for the language and it has built-in access to the serial port for control of hardware. I advise our students to use it instead of VB. Peter -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 12:47:27 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:47:27 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96aa4e8f041005054742dc1235@mail.gmail.com> first of all, sorry about the double post Perhaps I should take this project one step at a time. |This would work best in general-purpose computer labs, for example at |the library, where the main use is web browsing, e-mail, and word |processing/printing documents. Thank you Anton, I kind of forgot to mention that the system was going to be a general-purpose one, nothing specifically for CS courses other than the possibility to tinker with stuff more advanced than VB (half of the gr 10 and gr 11 curriculum, gr 12 gets you basic c++ in my school) First, I think I need to decide on the distro. I think it needs to be very newbie-friendly, have the option of automatic updates, and virtually everything should be accesible with a graphic interface (aka as close to windows in management difficulty as possible). Second (the biggest job), getting the system to cooperate with the servers, connect to shares, keep all the permissions on the current system more or less intact Third: distributing the system I am considering, if the test system is successful at its job, to simply create an image of it, with all the access settings in place, etc. This is pretty much what was done with win2k around here and each time a client machine dies, it is simply reimaged, they don't seem to bother much with data recovery (servers excluded). btw, I know I left out a lot of steps :-) I'll start a thread about the distro decision soon. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 12:59:11 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 08:59:11 -0400 Subject: Distro choice for the TDSB project Message-ID: <96aa4e8f041005055969c6f071@mail.gmail.com> As I wrote in the previous email, the ideal distro should basically be as easy to manage as the current win2k machines -preferably all-GUI access to controls/admin/setup tools (no shell necessary for anything) -installing whole images an option _and_ fairly easy to do (burn CD or graphically-controlled network install -an autoupdate/upgrade function, something completely automatic, _no_ user input required (after the system is initially set up) -easy to use for everyday tasks -included software a bonus (ie the mdk developer software) I guess the system should be as close to what win2k is for the schools right now, but without the (in)security problems and occasional crashes. by the way, there was a pretty cool project on sourceforge, OpenAdmin (now in 1.5 and used by a few schools in thte prairie provinces) for administrating whole schools, marks, attendance, etc. thanks to everyone Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 08:56:02 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:56:02 +0200 (IST) Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <41621AF8.2010205-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Anton Markov wrote: > They mostly don't want people changing the look of the desktop when > using a shared login (ex. at the library). Otherwise the standard > permissions should work well. Obviously no browsing other people's > files, etc. One word: knoppix > You may need access control lists or something similar, as the > user/group system could get very complex. Maybe. > Also, they teach some VB to introduce event-driven GUI programming, > which may be a little hard to beat (the people who take those classes > are the last people you expect to touch a computer; they know NOTHING). > Disecting the Linux Kernel is way above the curriculum. tcl offers simpler callback etc handling than vb imho. Programs are more terse. > A final very important point is ease of deployment. The system must be > capable of installing itself, fully configured (minus DNS/computer name) > unattended. From what I hear, only Slackware can do it, but I think an > RPM or DEB based system can be installed using some custom scripts. > Perhaps a system where the school can configure one computer, and then > take a "snapshot" of its configuration to copy to other computers. knoppix/debian ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 08:30:18 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:30:18 +0200 (IST) Subject: strange cups problem In-Reply-To: <20041004192652.GX8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041002232615.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20041004161635.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20041004192652.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Hmm, not sure about those variables. I tend to go with the defaults. > > my 'lp' and 'lpr' commands both come from cups and seem to work. > > Any /etc/printcap file on your machine? /etc/printcap.cups Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 08:45:49 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:45:49 +0200 (IST) Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, Igor Denisov wrote: > I plan to make an official proposal in a few weeks, so far, I've been > approaching the head of IT and others with the idea to get an idea > about the current attitude towards OSS/Linux. I think it would help if you'd do that with a few copies of knoppix cds given away. Just an opinion. Seeing is believing, although a more sober 'educational' knoppix remastering would be useful. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 08:46:39 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:46:39 +0200 (IST) Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <20041005025748.GA8018-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <20041005025748.GA8018@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, William Park wrote: > On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 10:33:59PM -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: >> As for compatibility, OpenOffice will do fine, no one really knows or >> seems to care about MS Office's more advanced functionality, most >> people would be fine using Notepad :-) > > But, be advised that OpenOffice's Comments (or Notes) feature is screwed > up. Apress.com (a book publisher), for example, is about to ban > OpenOffice. This version (1.1.1) or all versions ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 13:05:52 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Memory probing Message-ID: Does anyone know a Linux command or method to determine which memory slots are being used and possibly what's in them. This is of course on a live, running system which I really don't want to bring down just to have a peek under the covers. Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 13:30:51 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:30:51 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <41621AF8.2010205-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 11:54:32PM -0400, Anton Markov wrote: > Here are some caveates to watch for: The Graphics Design and Photography > classes teach Photoshop and Pagemaker, because they are the tools > professionals use. Ideally, these tools should be used on a Mac (our > school does video editing on Macs), but $$$ constraints means that PCs > are used for this. It's and important area to think about. > > Computer Science courses use that stupid language/program called > "Turing" which has no equivalence anywhere (probably because it's so > stupid). Never the less, it teaches the basics with a "visual" response > (i.e. drawing circles, etc.). Perhaps a Perl library providing a > simplified GDI and a GTK or QT output window would do well. Hmm, when I was in highschool (in peel)we used watbasic and watpascal on those dreadful Unisys Icons. > Also, they teach some VB to introduce event-driven GUI programming, > which may be a little hard to beat (the people who take those classes > are the last people you expect to touch a computer; they know NOTHING). > Disecting the Linux Kernel is way above the curriculum. Hmm, python + gtk maybe? > Another program is called Markbook as far as I know. It's designed to > keep track of marks, and A LOT of teachers are attached to it. Perhaps > Wine/Crossover Office would be of help here. Hmm, that one could be tough. Seems no one writes a decent marks program. > Also a good idea to have a program that can read Microsoft Publisher > files. Some people at our school use that for making Zines and some > other assignments, and I recall that the library has Microsoft Publisher > installed. > > A final very important point is ease of deployment. The system must be > capable of installing itself, fully configured (minus DNS/computer name) > unattended. From what I hear, only Slackware can do it, but I think an > RPM or DEB based system can be installed using some custom scripts. > Perhaps a system where the school can configure one computer, and then > take a "snapshot" of its configuration to copy to other computers. Should not be that hard. Unlike XP linux doesn't kick and scream when put in a different type of machine. Updating to a better kernel for the cpu type could be automated, as can most hardware detection. > I've done Debian installes completely from the command line by using > "dbootstrap" I believe (probably the wrong name). Yeah that is the name, although it only works if you already have linux booted on the machine. There are plans for debian to allow fully automated installs once the new version is released since it's much more modular and scriptable now. > Good luck with that, and please inform us of how it goes. Perhaps you > should create a seperate mailing list for this discussion; after all, > the TDSB is important to the "education" aspect of the long-term Linux > domination strategy :). > > I will probably add some more ideas later. It's a very interesting > project, and perhaps I'll be able to help somehow. I wonder if the debian-edu project would have any application here. Or skolelinux (another debian based project I believe). http://wiki.debian.net/?DebianEdu http://www.skolelinux.org Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 13:36:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:36:36 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204100419586d873074-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <4161FD70.4050301@rogers.com> <96aa4e8f0410041909b9d72e5@mail.gmail.com> <4386c5b204100419586d873074@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041005133636.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 10:58:24PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > You're taking on a big task here. Best of luck! > > Here are some of my thoughts/suggestions on how to approach this: > > - consider the format of your proposal. An essay offers maximum > detail, but may never be properly absorbed by your recipients. A > powerpoint (created in OOo?) would do better by covering off the major > points. > > - you're painting too rosy a picture of Linux, and I suspect some > might wonder where the downside is. There IS downside, and you need to > address it point-by-point. Be realistic and honest with yourself here. Well unless the technical staff at school boards have improved drastically in the last decade (both in staffing levels and average competency) I am amazed they can keep windows running. They have in the past had way too little staff to do the amount of maintenance computers required. And some of them knew very little except about one specific type of computer system. Perhaps if set up right linux will take less maintenance which would be a good thing. perhaps it will take more. i don't know, given how destructive public school students can be (for some reason they think breaking the computer's software is a great passtime. The worst being about grade 7/8 in my experience.) > - Nobody's ever been fired for going with MS. Why should these > conservative folks make a move? Here's a hint: get the dollar amounts > of the current system, and put together as part of your proposal a set > of figures for a Linux ecosystem. Be sure to include tech support, and > explain how they'll be trained and where they'll come from. People have been fired for going with Cisco. I imagine it won't be long (if it hasn't already happend) that peopel would be fired for buying IBM. And if I ran a company, you bet you would be fired for buying Microsoft. > As well, there was a thread recently here about FirstClass for Linux; > the consensus was that it didn't exist. You might want to start a new > thread with any info on that you might have. Hmm, I keep wondering when this bizarre program came into existance and took over all educational systems. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 13:39:12 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:39:12 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f041005054742dc1235-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f041005054742dc1235@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041005133912.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 08:47:27AM -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: [snip] > Third: distributing the system > I am considering, if the test system is successful at its job, to > simply create an image of it, with all the access settings in place, > etc. > This is pretty much what was done with win2k around here and each time > a client machine dies, it is simply reimaged, they don't seem to > bother much with data recovery (servers excluded). > > btw, I know I left out a lot of steps :-) > > I'll start a thread about the distro decision soon. When university of Waterloo set up labs with Win95 on them, they were set up so that most of the partitions on the system were either read only, or reimaged on EVERY reboot. Made for the most reliable Win95 systems I ever saw. On the other hand they later got 3 WinCenter servers and I believe if they had been an option initially they would never have deployed windows on the workstations at all. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 13:40:40 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:40:40 -0400 Subject: Memory probing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041005134040.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:05:52AM -0400, Terry Tanski wrote: > Does anyone know a Linux command or method to determine which memory > slots are being used and possibly what's in them. This is of course on a > live, running system which I really don't want to bring down just to > have a peek under the covers. What is a 'memory slot'? The command 'free' tends to show me what I want to know. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 13:52:00 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 09:52:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Memory probing In-Reply-To: <20041005134040.GB8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041005134040.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > The command 'free' tends to show me what I want to know. free will tell 'you have 1.5G mem total'. What I want to know is 'you have 4 memory slots, three are populated with 512MB DIMMS'. Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 14:08:26 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:08:26 -0400 Subject: Memory probing In-Reply-To: References: <20041005134040.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041005140826.GA18113@seahorse> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:52:00AM -0400, Terry Tanski wrote: > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > The command 'free' tends to show me what I want to know. > > free will tell 'you have 1.5G mem total'. What I want to know is 'you > have 4 memory slots, three are populated with 512MB DIMMS'. Well you don't always have to turn off the computer to take off the cover. If you have I2C installed and working (i.e. lets you read hardware sensors, mobo temps and voltages) you could read the EEPROMs on the dimms and they'll have simple info like "I'm a 256mb" "I'm a 128mb". The eyeball method is probably the easiest though. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 14:55:14 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 10:55:14 -0400 Subject: Memory probing In-Reply-To: <20041005140826.GA18113@seahorse> References: <20041005134040.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20041005140826.GA18113@seahorse> Message-ID: <20041005145513.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 10:08:26AM -0400, Andy Jack wrote: > Well you don't always have to turn off the computer to take off the > cover. > > If you have I2C installed and working (i.e. lets you read hardware > sensors, mobo temps and voltages) you could read the EEPROMs on the > dimms and they'll have simple info like "I'm a 256mb" "I'm a 128mb". > > The eyeball method is probably the easiest though. As far as I know, those are the only two options available. The BIOS does not as far as I know tell the OS how the ram is configured since it doesn't matter to the OS. Not like a NUMA system where some memory is slower/faster than other memory relative to each CPU and it does matter to the OS. But even those just tell the OS how much memory is connected to each CPU, not what size/speed each DIMM is, since really, who cares at the software level. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 15:13:48 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:13:48 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <20041005025748.GA8018@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20041005151348.GA426@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 10:46:39AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Mon, 4 Oct 2004, William Park wrote: > > >On Mon, Oct 04, 2004 at 10:33:59PM -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > >>As for compatibility, OpenOffice will do fine, no one really knows or > >>seems to care about MS Office's more advanced functionality, most > >>people would be fine using Notepad :-) > > > >But, be advised that OpenOffice's Comments (or Notes) feature is screwed > >up. Apress.com (a book publisher), for example, is about to ban > >OpenOffice. > > This version (1.1.1) or all versions ? 1.1.2. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 15:16:46 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 11:16:46 -0400 Subject: bash question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041005151646.GB426@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 10:28:59AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > I have asked this before: how does one expand parameters in bash for > indirection ? > > Specifically: > > foo=123 > bar=foo > > now, what do I do to get the contents of foo knowing bar. I.e.: > > baz=?!?(bar) such that baz=123 > > (find the ?!? operator, without using the name foo explicitly). I tried > various ${:=} etc expansions with no luck. man bash /indirect -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 16:59:32 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 12:59:32 -0400 Subject: postscript purgatory & the callsheet In-Reply-To: <41580C85.7090003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <1096255042.2800.96.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <41580C85.7090003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1096995571.2872.39.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Mon, 2004-09-27 at 08:50, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > In a past life, I was a prepress systems hack. Ah, the joys of finding > the error in 8GB of PostScript ... > > Q#3 > > I am starting to /get/ the concept of virtual printers, and would love > > to just fire ant ps document at "printer.callsheet" or whatever. Is > > there an painless way to set that up ? > > You could, but it's all dependent on the printing system you use. I'd > just stick with a script. that's where I'm at now. The script (thanks to Lennart & William) is working nicely, but the HTML styling and PS output (via htmldoc) could use a tweak or two. I'm transforming html > ps with; htmldoc --webpage --gray --footer ct1 --top 2 --bottom 2 --left 24 --right 6 -f $CALLSHEETDIR/$USER/$USER.callsheet.ps $CALLSHEETDIR/$USER/$USER.callsheet.html and printing with; if [ "$1" = "-p" ]; then psbook -s4 $CALLSHEETDIR/$USER/$USER.callsheet.ps | psnup -pletter -2 | psselect -o | lp read -p "hit any key" # wait "hit any key" psbook -s4 $CALLSHEETDIR/$USER/$USER.callsheet.ps | psnup -pletter -2 | psselect -e | lp fi ps issues; 1) not getting full (2 up) page coverage with the top & bottom margins (I tried to use negative top/bottom values and it just pushed things into a seemingliy unprintable zone, like, 2cm from the 11in edge) 2) the header won't go away. Doesn't matter what I do. 3) I have yet to apply .css. will htmldoc "just work" ? > Sounds like an interesting project. > > Stewart I'm finding it a potent PIM tool. The daily callsheet, with weather, sunrise/set, todays appointments, selected tomorrows appointments, selected todos, and memos where the title contains "~" (arbitrary) takes 12 seconds to create, is nicely navigable and searchable in a browser, and prints out in another 30 sec, including flipping the sheet in the printer. I'm sure that by adding a bit more .css, postscript and bash talent, " clsht" would be useful for anyone who uses the palm and has a lot to track. To that end I'll be posting the whole ball o wax at Sourceforge. Anyone interested ? I'll send related files off-list, till it lives and breathes at the "Forge" thanks all ! djp > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 18:08:35 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:08:35 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail Message-ID: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> I'm looking for some verification here... I'm using Konqueror 3.2.2 (under KDE 3.2.3), and I've had terrible times cruising around http://www.theglobeandmail.com. Homepage comes up always without problem, however more often than not, when I follow a link to a story, the browser freezes cold. The tricky thing is this: if I follow the link while by-passing the homepage (eg cutting/pasting into a new session of Konq), then it's fine. It seems to freeze only when using the Globe & Mail homepage as a link-base. For example: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20041005.w3sub1005/BNStory/National/ The above link loads fine from a new session, but if I follow the same link from the homepage, it freezes. How would I go about figuring if this was a problem with the coding on the Globe site, or a problem with Konq? Can anyone else replicate this? Cheers, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 18:17:13 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:17:13 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410051417.14079.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On October 5, 2004 02:08 pm, Matt Cahill wrote: > I'm looking for some verification here... > > I'm using Konqueror 3.2.2 (under KDE 3.2.3), and I've had terrible times > cruising around http://www.theglobeandmail.com. Homepage comes up always > without problem, however more often than not, when I follow a link to a > story, the browser freezes cold. nope, you're not alone. that's why i upgraded to kde3.3.0. that doesn't happen anymore. -- you can only be free if i am free. - clarence darrow -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 13:18:13 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:18:13 +0200 (IST) Subject: bash question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> I have asked this before: how does one expand parameters in bash for >> indirection ? >> >> Specifically: >> >> foo=123 >> bar=foo >> >> now, what do I do to get the contents of foo knowing bar. I.e.: >> >> baz=?!?(bar) such that baz=123 >> >> (find the ?!? operator, without using the name foo explicitly). I tried >> various ${:=} etc expansions with no luck. > > In bash: > > baz=${!bar} > > In any Bourne-type shell (including bash): > > eval baz=\$$bar Thanks a lot, that's it. Bash is an example of documentation overload imho. Manpage has only 8377 lines (about 140 pages when printed on A4 paper - no I did not print it out) and I tried to go through it several times. Otoh what happens to ${!bar} if history expansion is turned on ? No problem ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 19:26:28 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 15:26:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >>> I have asked this before: how does one expand parameters in bash for >>> indirection ? >>> >>> Specifically: >>> >>> foo=123 >>> bar=foo >>> >>> now, what do I do to get the contents of foo knowing bar. I.e.: >>> >>> baz=?!?(bar) such that baz=123 >>> >>> (find the ?!? operator, without using the name foo explicitly). I tried >>> various ${:=} etc expansions with no luck. >> >> In bash: >> >> baz=${!bar} >> >> In any Bourne-type shell (including bash): >> >> eval baz=\$$bar > > Thanks a lot, that's it. Bash is an example of documentation overload imho. > Manpage has only 8377 lines (about 140 pages when printed on A4 paper - no I > did not print it out) and I tried to go through it several times. Otoh what > happens to ${!bar} if history expansion is turned on ? No problem ? Try it and see. (There's no problem.) -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 19:46:38 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:46:38 +0200 (IST) Subject: bash question In-Reply-To: <20041005151646.GB426-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041005151646.GB426@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, William Park wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 10:28:59AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> >> I have asked this before: how does one expand parameters in bash for >> indirection ? >> >> Specifically: >> >> foo=123 >> bar=foo >> >> now, what do I do to get the contents of foo knowing bar. I.e.: >> >> baz=?!?(bar) such that baz=123 >> >> (find the ?!? operator, without using the name foo explicitly). I tried >> various ${:=} etc expansions with no luck. > > man bash > /indirect Eh ... that's about the only search key I did not try. Sigh. Thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 20:22:56 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 16:22:56 -0400 Subject: Memory probing In-Reply-To: <20041005134040.GB8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041005134040.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <416302A0.4000602@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:05:52AM -0400, Terry Tanski wrote: > >>Does anyone know a Linux command or method to determine which memory >>slots are being used and possibly what's in them. This is of course on a >>live, running system which I really don't want to bring down just to >>have a peek under the covers. > > > What is a 'memory slot'? I suspect he means the physical slots that you plug memory into. As far as I know, there's no way to do what he wants. > > The command 'free' tends to show me what I want to know. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 20:42:15 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:42:15 +0200 (IST) Subject: Memory probing In-Reply-To: <416302A0.4000602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041005134040.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <416302A0.4000602@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004, James Knott wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 09:05:52AM -0400, Terry Tanski wrote: >> >>> Does anyone know a Linux command or method to determine which memory >>> slots are being used and possibly what's in them. This is of course on a >>> live, running system which I really don't want to bring down just to >>> have a peek under the covers. >> >> >> What is a 'memory slot'? > > I suspect he means the physical slots that you plug memory into. As far as I > know, there's no way to do what he wants. The I2C way someone else pointed out should work, but afaik, the I2C chips in the dimms each reside on a separate I2C bus. Discovering the right bus on different chipsets could be interesting and may require register level programming info for the motherboard chips. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 21:11:53 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:11:53 -0400 Subject: WYSIWYG Editor In-Reply-To: <4162079D.5000008-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041003142521.8DAE76D9EA@lethe.ss.org> <20041004162103.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1096941285.3687.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4162079D.5000008@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <1097010712.6310.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> > You can do it using styles (for example CSS), by setting "overflow: > scroll". For example, use 'style="overflow:scroll"' in any tag like a div. That should fit my needs just about perfectly. :) Thanks! - Scott. -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 21:10:03 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang ( Lee )) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 14:10:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: samba - Printer driver doesn't install under XP In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041005211003.48216.qmail@web40208.mail.yahoo.com> hi, all I have samba 2.2 as PDC running under AIX. a HP 4100tn printer is installed. now i want to print to this printer from a xp machine but i can't seems to install the printer driver to the xp machine during the printer wizard. it always prompts me error that 'windows cannot locate a suitable printer driver" I already unziped the drive where i got it from hp site and point it to the right location but still no avail. anyone got a idea how to fix this ? thanks, Qiang __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 22:39:36 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:39:36 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: <200410051417.14079.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> <200410051417.14079.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <200410051839.36591.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 5, 2004 02:17 pm, daniel wrote: > nope, you're not alone. that's why i upgraded to kde3.3.0. that doesn't > happen anymore. Arrg - I've been avoiding 3.3 (hassles, acetism). Is it stable? (thanks) Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 23:15:05 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:15:05 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <20041005133051.GY8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensenwrote: |>Also, they teach some VB to introduce event-driven GUI programming, |>which may be a little hard to beat (the people who take those classes |>are the last people you expect to touch a computer; they know NOTHING). |>Disecting the Linux Kernel is way above the curriculum. | | | Hmm, python + gtk maybe? Yes, python would work very well. The advantages would be obvious: it's cross-platform, and it's a real, live language. The key would be to integrate it smoothly into the curriculum. The three things we study at our school is: 1) Basic conditional statements, loops, function calls. This is done in Turing through "fun" activities like animating circles :( I would recommend a simple test editor with a "run" and "step through" button. The language used would be python, but stripped down so that when the user types 'print "Hello World"' (or whatever it is in Python; I don't know the language :( ), it outputs that text. Adding some wrapper functions to standard GTK calls for drawing circles, lines, squares, etc. and outputting to a GTK windows would be enought to surpass the basic Turing functionality. The point here is to make the programs as simple as possible; no "It just has to be there" stuff. 2) Event-oriented programming. Currently VB is used for this. Use an IDE such as Anjuta or something similar that integrates Glade with an editor. Continuing to use Python would be advantageous, because the syntax does not change. 3) Object-oriented and modular programming (perhaps network support, etc.) This is done in Java. I think this should be left alone, because many Universities use Java in the first-year courses from what I hear. Of course it's never too early to teach C++, as long as the kids are bright enough to handle it :) So here's the basic question: has there been any progress already done in this area? If not, would someone be interested in coding up at least the first idea on the above list? It shouldn't be too difficult, and would even serve and a Windows replacement for Turing. Perhaps a "Written in Python for Python" idea would be cool; at the end of the year have the students examine the sourcecode for the software they've used all year. |>I've done Debian installes completely from the command line by using |>"dbootstrap" I believe (probably the wrong name). | | | Yeah that is the name, although it only works if you already have linux | booted on the machine. I was thinking of booting from a custom Knoppix CD that would detect all the hardware, wipe the HD, dbootstrap the installation, and then install only the necessairy packages from either the CD or a local proxy/mirror. ~ Sort of like a custom installer. Your next comment makes this idea obsolete :) | | There are plans for debian to allow fully automated installs once the | new version is released since it's much more modular and scriptable now. Ya, I heard the new installer is sweet overall. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBYyr4RreNkzrRRLQRAkvRAJ0SpsX9edTvUR75uOhqL9Ks41njAACeLPGl b4QodeUImo+L/qCLaJr/uNo= =e2Gl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 23:32:29 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 19:32:29 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: <200410051839.36591.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> <200410051417.14079.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <200410051839.36591.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:39:36 -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > > > > On October 5, 2004 02:17 pm, daniel wrote: > > > nope, you're not alone. that's why i upgraded to kde3.3.0. that doesn't > > happen anymore. > > Arrg - I've been avoiding 3.3 (hassles, acetism). Is it stable? Why not use Firefox?? :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vertaxis-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 5 23:59:54 2004 From: vertaxis-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (vertaxis) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:59:54 -0400 Subject: Looking for Via Epia motherboards in T.O. Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005195429.022add30@pop.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> My Linux firewall box is on it's last legs and I'm looking to build a replacement system. Does anyone know of a store in Toronto that's selling any of the Via Epia mini-ITX motherboards with the C3 processors? Here's the kind of board I'm looking for. Epia CL (10000) with a C3 of 1Ghz or better http://www.viaembedded.com/product/epia_cl_spec.jsp?motherboardId=181 Epia PD (10000) with a C3 of 1Ghz or better http://www.viaembedded.com/product/epia_PD_spec.jsp?motherboardId=241 Any and all help is much appreciated. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 01:13:09 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 21:13:09 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <41632AF9.6030301-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f04100518133459b312@mail.gmail.com> Alright, looking at the responses, my own and friends' experiences, and a bunch of distro reviews, I think it would be a good idea to, for now, go with debian apt-get will be a huge 'selling point' and I think synaptic (sorry, not link) is a GUI for it, which should make things extra-nice it might be too early to think of how to distribute this over the network / through cds with the image, this will have its place after I can secure a permission to actually put the sstem on the network I'll keep everyone up to date as the project progresses Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 02:01:30 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:01:30 -0400 Subject: xargs / FS-maintenance question In-Reply-To: <20041001212739.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1096652449.3669.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200410011614.28224.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20041001212739.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200410052201.30087.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 01 October 2004 17:27, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I always test my find commands using: find ..... | xargs echo command > options As do I ... > echo is a good thing, lets you see if the result looks sane before > really doing it. They looked sane, they weren't ... fingers were thinking faster than the brain that day :-( -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 02:06:51 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 5 Oct 2004 22:06:51 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> <200410051839.36591.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410052206.51695.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 5, 2004 07:32 pm, Steve wrote: > On Tue, 5 Oct 2004 18:39:36 -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > > On October 5, 2004 02:17 pm, daniel wrote: > > > nope, you're not alone. that's why i upgraded to kde3.3.0. that > > > doesn't happen anymore. > > > > Arrg - I've been avoiding 3.3 (hassles, acetism). Is it stable? > > Why not use Firefox?? :-) Ah, my friend, that is like asking me to choose between caviar *and* champagne; selfish me, I want them both. ;) M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 02:42:41 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 22:42:41 -0400 Subject: Looking for Via Epia motherboards in T.O. In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005195429.022add30-r/7WXmsJ4YwmUADH0d6UyityHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005195429.022add30@pop.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041006024241.1B2FC3FD2@cbbrowne.com> > My Linux firewall box is on it's last legs and I'm looking to build a > replacement system. Does anyone know of a store in Toronto that's selling > any of the Via Epia mini-ITX motherboards with the C3 processors? The only place I am aware of that carries these are EPROM Computer Systems . Unfortunately, they aren't quite a "general public" vendor; they generally sell to resellers or dealers of some sort. More particularly, I'm not sure how game they are to sell in tiny quantities. -- let name="cbbrowne" and tld="gmail.com" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;; http://linuxfinances.info/info/spiritual.html "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 04:17:30 2004 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 00:17:30 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <416371DA.BB22B829@rogers.com> Anton Markov wrote: > So here's the basic question: has there been any progress already done > in this area? If not, would someone be interested in coding up at least > the first idea on the above list? It shouldn't be too difficult, and > would even serve and a Windows replacement for Turing. Perhaps a > "Written in Python for Python" idea would be cool; at the end of the > year have the students examine the sourcecode for the software they've > used all year. Sigh. This was all done about 25 years ago with Smalltalk. Most of the Smalltalk environment is written in Smalltalk, and, in the case of Squeak, even the VM is written in Squeak. The focus of Smalltalk has always been on education, and over at www.squeakland.org there seems to be some renewal along these lines. --yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 15:00:19 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:00:19 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line Message-ID: Hi, I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively close)?? Many thanks! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 15:07:29 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:07:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Steve wrote: > I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the > past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new > LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone > suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively > close)?? Well, Sonnam Computer is not close to Yonge, but it is at Spadina and College which is well served by streetcar (not sure if the construction on College St. is still happening, but the Spadina car was running last time I was there). The LCD page on their web site is http://www.sonnam.com/parts.asp?prod_gp=32&prod_code=174 They seem to have their act together .. lots of variety, helpful staff, good prices, good attitude. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 15:08:16 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:08:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Steve wrote: > I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the > past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new > LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone > suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively > close)?? If he takes the subway to Spadina, and the streetcar south from there, and gets off at College, he'll be at the east end of the College Street computer-store concentration. There are several good stores there; in particular, Sonnam is on Spadina just above College. (In normal times he could also take the streetcar west from College station on the Yonge line, but I think the College car is still being rerouted due to street construction.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 15:19:07 2004 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:19:07 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41640CEB.8020304@iprimus.ca> Hi Steve There is a place called Computer Surgeon on the Danforth Avenue, maybe 20 yards west of Coxwell Avenue (Coxwell subway station). The guy who owns the store is called Gus and he is pretty decent and relaible and his prices are reasonable. One gotcha is that they don't take credit cards but they have an ATM in the store. Take care Clive STeve wrote: >Hi, > >I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the >past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new >LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone >suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively >close)?? > >Many thanks! > >-Steve. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel: 416-421-2440 Cell: 416-560-8820 Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Linux Mandrake 9.1 kernel 2.4.21 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 15:41:33 2004 From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:41:33 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041006114008.02dea960@pop1.sympatico.ca> >Try SOGO. One of it's branches is on Yonge a little south of King. www3.sympatico.ca/echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 15:43:55 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:43:55 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <416412BB.9020600@sympatico.ca> Or there's Computer Village (I think it's called), on the east side of Yonge, just south of Eglinton Station. I've had College St/Markham prices from these guys, and they're quite helpful. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 18:16:52 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:16:52 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41643694.3060208@deeptown.org> Canada Computers have one location on 5799 Yonge St. It is two-three blocks north of Finch Station, near of Tim Hortons. But I prefer Filtech Computers at Spadina and College. All the Best! Sergey. Steve wrote: >Hi, > >I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the >past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new >LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone >suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively >close)?? > >Many thanks! > >-Steve. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 16:21:37 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:21:37 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041006122137.4cd82fdb@pingu.opus> On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:00:19 -0400 Steve wrote: > Hi, > > I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the > past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new > LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone > suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively > close)?? > > Many thanks! > > -Steve. I would use this link. Price compare and then decide if it's actually worth travelling an hour to save $$$$ LCD range quite a bit from place to place. Compare LG to Samsung and Benq as well. http://www.torontopcstores.com/ I have used Sonnam, ICCT, CanadaSys and PCCananda. Also WWW.yesplay.com which is Plug and Play. ICCT.ca seems to have pretty good prices < $ 400.00 to 470.00 HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 20:18:34 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:18:34 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: <20041006122137.4cd82fdb-Kui6G6Updn6cqzYg7KEe8g@public.gmane.org> References: <20041006122137.4cd82fdb@pingu.opus> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:21:37 -0400, John Myshrall wrote: > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:00:19 -0400 > Steve wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the > > past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new > > LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone > > suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively > > close)?? > > > > Many thanks! > > > > -Steve. > > I would use this link. Price compare and then decide if it's actually > worth travelling an hour to save $$$$ LCD range quite a bit from place > to place. Compare LG to Samsung and Benq as well. > > http://www.torontopcstores.com/ > > I have used Sonnam, ICCT, CanadaSys and PCCananda. Also WWW.yesplay.com > which is Plug and Play. > > ICCT.ca seems to have pretty good prices < $ 400.00 to 470.00 > > HTH > > John Thanks a lot for the info! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 20:29:47 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:29:47 -0400 Subject: [OT] computer stores along Yonge subway line In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097094587.416455bba9a30@www.almatau.com> Quoting "talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org" : > On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Steve wrote: > > > I know some people here have mentioned good computer stores in the > > past that are downtown. A friend of mine is looking to purchase a new > > LCD 17" monitor (probably LG), but he's TTC'ing it... can anyone > > suggest a place (or places) along the Yonge subway line (or realtively > > close)?? > > Well, Sonnam Computer is not close to Yonge, but it is at Spadina and > College which is well served by streetcar (not sure if the construction on > College St. is still happening, but the Spadina car was running last time > I was there). The LCD page on their web site is > > http://www.sonnam.com/parts.asp?prod_gp=32&prod_code=174 > > They seem to have their act together .. lots of variety, helpful staff, > good prices, good attitude. > But: 1.One month of warranty; 2.Buying ASUS motherboard in Sonnam, I asked for a compatible 512MB DIMM. They gave me one with wrong speed, then replaced it with another one (free) which was supposed to work and didn't. Finally I had to bring them the whole machine, a tech found proper DIMM and I was charged $25 for services. Not sure if I had to pay for wrong stuff replacement, but I had no power to argue; 3.Along with that motherboard, I asked for a chip videocard. One I was sold was a second hand ancient no-name, which just didn't work. Again, I replaced it with ATI, paying the difference; 4.Network card died in two weeks, replaced with one from BestBuy. After that I got a nice Linux home server, which is running for months without any problems :-) Regards, Ilya. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 20:55:35 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:55:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sonnam service level In-Reply-To: <1097094587.416455bba9a30-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1097094587.416455bba9a30@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 6 Oct 2004, Ilya Palagin wrote: > But: > 1.One month of warranty; If that for used stuff or new? For used stuff, I figure if you get it home and it works, you're ahead. If it's DOA, take it back and try again. > 2.Buying ASUS motherboard in Sonnam, I asked for a compatible 512MB > DIMM. They gave me one with wrong speed, then replaced it with another > one (free) which was supposed to work and didn't. Finally I had to > bring them the whole machine, a tech found proper DIMM and I was charged > $25 for services. Not sure if I had to pay for wrong stuff replacement, > but I had no power to argue; That's a tough one -- apart from bringing the whole machine in, which I freely admit can be inconvenient. > 3.Along with that motherboard, I asked for a chip videocard. One I was > sold was a second hand ancient no-name, which just didn't work. Again, > I replaced it with ATI, paying the difference; I would have brought it back and got a refund. > 4.Network card died in two weeks, replaced with one from BestBuy. I would have brought that back as well -- especially if it was within the month warranty. I had a power supply die on me -- to save time, I pulled it out of the bad PC and brought it back to the store, along with the paperwork. It was part of a system that I'd bought there and put together myself. They were reluctant because they wanted to see the whole system (amd I understood). I shrugged and said I could go and get it if they wanted -- I'd just tried to save them time. They were OK with that, and just gave me a replacement P/S (no charge, of course) and I was on my way. Another time I wanted to get a sound card for my Linux machine -- they had some used sound cards for $10. When I waffled, the lady cut it to $5. The sound card works fine. I've also bought memory at their store, and it works fine. For used machines I usually go down College to Hardware Direct, they have inventory that turns around pretty fast. A few months back, I brought back a machine that wouldn't boot from the CD (kinda important when you're installing Linux), and they took care of me right away, even though it was ten minutes before closing time and they had a big sign saying No Technical Support Half an Hour Before Closing. I agree that going back to a store to return something can be stressful, but I've found it works pretty well if you're prepared, and you're reasonable. Also, consumer research has shown that if someone has a good retail experience they tend to tell 3-4 of their friends; if they have a bad retail experience, they tend to tell 15-20 of their friends. In Toronto, that kind of news spreads fast, especially among a focussed community such as this mailing list. Today I've heard from this mailing list about two places I didn't know existed, one near me at Coxwell and Danforth, another South of Yonge on Eglinton .. if I find that either of them have a better store than Sonnam, I might start going there. Well, enough rambling. Cheers! Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 20:56:45 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:56:45 -0400 Subject: firewalling and Sun Netra (UltraSparc) and iptables extensions Message-ID: <1097096205.41645c0db8491@www.almatau.com> Hi, We've got some Netra's and are going to use them for services like DNS, firewalling, etc. I've installed Debian on it, it works just great! The only problem is that 64bit UltraSparc linux kernel doesn't seem to support some extensions for firewalling, like 'limit'. Here is an example: >iptables -A INPUT -m limit --limit 3600/hour --limit-burst 20 -j LOG iptables: Invalid argument I've installed the latest 2.4 and 2.6 kernels from Debian testing, the same problem. The reason for that is: "... because these 32-bit system call translation layer needs to translate the iptables entry structures for certain iptables targets..." It was posted one year ago. Does anyone have a positive result for those extension on Sparc since then? This issue isn't a big deal, filtering and NAT are working well, but I need to setup a "pre-built" firewall with web interface for those who has no experience with iptables, all those applications use limits. Thanks, Ilya. ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mike-DlQxw/23Tq2aMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 6 22:30:02 2004 From: mike-DlQxw/23Tq2aMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Mike Waychison) Date: Wed, 06 Oct 2004 18:30:02 -0400 Subject: firewalling and Sun Netra (UltraSparc) and iptables extensions In-Reply-To: <1097096205.41645c0db8491-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1097096205.41645c0db8491@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <416471EA.7070608@waychison.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ilya Palagin wrote: > Hi, > > We've got some Netra's and are going to use them for services like DNS, > firewalling, etc. I've installed Debian on it, it works just great! The only > problem is that 64bit UltraSparc linux kernel doesn't seem to support some > extensions for firewalling, like 'limit'. Here is an example: > > >>iptables -A INPUT -m limit --limit 3600/hour --limit-burst 20 -j LOG > > iptables: Invalid argument > > I've installed the latest 2.4 and 2.6 kernels from Debian testing, the same > problem. The reason for that is: > > "... because these 32-bit system call translation layer needs to translate the > iptables entry structures for certain iptables targets..." > > It was posted one year ago. Does anyone have a positive result for those > extension on Sparc since then? This issue isn't a big deal, filtering and NAT > are working well, but I need to setup a "pre-built" firewall with web interface > for those who has no experience with iptables, all those applications use limits. > > Thanks, > Ilya. > Have you tried re-compiling iptables as a 64-bit target? -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBZHFXdQs4kOxk3/MRAu+cAJ95K6cT6rSMc+/Du84EMpmfwwOshgCeJWDU tqa+jeGmVI+AIf4c5Q5m2hw= =kTjt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 02:07:17 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 22:07:17 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410062207.17527.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 05 October 2004 14:08, Matt Cahill wrote: > How would I go about figuring if this was a problem with the coding on the > Globe site, or a problem with Konq? Can anyone else replicate this? I think it might be quite difficult to track down. It seems to me to be a bug in konq's javascript handling. When I set javascript policy to REJECT for www.theglobeandmail.com I have no problems ... you should likely set www.globetechnology.com to REJECT as well. I haven't tried upgrading to 3.3 yet ... -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 11:45:47 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 07:45:47 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: <200410062207.17527.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> <200410062207.17527.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200410070745.47054.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 6, 2004 10:07 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: > I think it might be quite difficult to track down. It seems to me to be a > bug in konq's javascript handling. When I set javascript policy to REJECT > for www.theglobeandmail.com I have no problems ... you should likely set > www.globetechnology.com to REJECT as well. > > I haven't tried upgrading to 3.3 yet ... Unfortunately, not even setting a custom REJECT for javascript seems to work (tried both 'globetechnology.com' and 'globeandmail.com'). The ironic thing is that, by the time I get around to upgrading to 3.3 or fixing this issue, I'm sure the Globe will make all but the most uninteresting articles for paying members only :( Thanks, M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 14:33:40 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:33:40 -0400 Subject: Buying something new Message-ID: I need a new computer. I've finally run up against the limits of the old Dell I'm using for Linux, realizing that adding enough Rambus memory to make it workable for new applications would cost more than another system (...and afterward it would still be slow and in need of more disk space). This is really only a problem because, as a software specialist, I typically think of hardware as something that *impedes* computing. :-) My requirements are for something reasonably capable, but not fancy; most of my development is server-side stuff and for my "play" applications (graphics, music...) I have my Macs. Probably my only slightly unusual needs -- compared to the standard ads I'm reading -- are a dual-processor box for testing concurrent programming and a CD/DVD writer. Otherwise, a gig of RAM, maybe 160 disk, and "standard" support for audio, video, USB, ethernet.... (For unavoidable business reasons, it will almost certainly be dual-booted with some version of Windows...sigh.) So, the question is, are any of the Toronto stores being discussed Linux-aware to the degree that I could walk in and ask for a bunch of features, with the caveat that the hardware must work with an up-to-date Linux distro? I don't object to doing research in order to learn what's supported, except that it's hard to know when you're finished. (For example: SuSE's site lists most multi-processor motherboards as 'partial' or 'unknown' support. Other sites recommend certain boards and then, in the fine print, say things like "of course you won't be able to use the on-board SATA controller". Aaaarrrggh!) What's a recommended approach for someone who just wants to produce software and doesn't want to turn hardware acquisition into a full-time hobby? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 14:40:07 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:40:07 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 10:33:40 -0400, phil wrote: > My requirements are for something reasonably capable, but not fancy; > most of my development is server-side stuff and for my "play" > applications (graphics, music...) I have my Macs. Probably my only > slightly unusual needs -- compared to the standard ads I'm reading -- > are a dual-processor box for testing concurrent programming and a > CD/DVD writer. Otherwise, a gig of RAM, maybe 160 disk, and "standard" > support for audio, video, USB, ethernet.... Is there a particular distro or flavour of linux that you want/need to use with this hardware. I think sometimes hardware is supported by some and not by others. This might help for people to give you a more specific answer through their own experience with hardware/distros. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 14:59:51 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:59:51 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097161191.2731.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:33, phil wrote: > What's a recommended approach for someone who just wants to produce > software and doesn't want to turn hardware acquisition into a full-time > hobby? Consider carrying a bootable distro (knoppix) into the stores. Find a similar hardware setup and try it there. djp is knoppix the answer to /everything/ ? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 15:07:38 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:07:38 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <1097161191.2731.3.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097161191.2731.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 10:59:51 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > Consider carrying a bootable distro (knoppix) into the stores. Find a > similar hardware setup and try it there. > > djp > > is knoppix the answer to /everything/ ? > ;-) For me it might be... I'm currently running a harddrive install of knoppix at home! Good suggestion. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 15:03:44 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:03:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <1097161191.2731.3.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097161191.2731.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:33, phil wrote: > >> What's a recommended approach for someone who just wants to produce >> software and doesn't want to turn hardware acquisition into a full-time >> hobby? > > Consider carrying a bootable distro (knoppix) into the stores. Find a > similar hardware setup and try it there. > > djp > > is knoppix the answer to /everything/ ? > ;-) Not yet but I am working on it ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 15:21:48 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:21:48 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: References: <1097161191.2731.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> A store called sub500 (www.sub500.com) in Toronto specialized in selling Linux machines. They work with Linspire, but they might know about other distros too. Hey, at least they're anti-MS! Aaron. P.S they're on Dufferin. On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:03:44 -0400 (EDT), Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > > > On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 10:33, phil wrote: > > > >> What's a recommended approach for someone who just wants to produce > >> software and doesn't want to turn hardware acquisition into a full-time > >> hobby? > > > > Consider carrying a bootable distro (knoppix) into the stores. Find a > > similar hardware setup and try it there. > > > > djp > > > > is knoppix the answer to /everything/ ? > > ;-) > > Not yet but I am working on it ;-) > > Peter > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 15:33:22 2004 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 11:33:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: mysql question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041007153322.27953.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> All, I had a project which need to insert email addresses into mysql table with a condition, For example, If the email address is already in the mysql table, Do not insert it into MYSQL table. otherwise insert into mysql table. Can anybody tell me how to do it? Thanks!! HUI -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 16:03:58 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:03:58 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1097161191.2731.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f041007090326f070fb@mail.gmail.com> I guess the important question is, what is your budget? If you are looking at a dual processor box, on the low end of the scale you'll ahve your Athlon MPs or older Xeons, AMD still being cheaper. If you want something better, the Opterons are the way to go, under Linux, they seem to perform much better than the ne 64-bit enabled Xeons, especially in server apps, see http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163&p=8 and http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030422/opteron-17.html Also, are you going to build it yourself? I'm not aware of any PC shops around the city that would more or less specialized Distro-wise, I personally am sticking to my SuSE 9.1 So far, it is the only distro that properly recognized my SATA controller (a via one, I think, on an nForce2 board, and it seems to be unsupported officially), something that even win2k had trouble with. Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 16:15:57 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:15:57 -0400 Subject: CAD program that can work with DXFs? Message-ID: Does anyone know if there exists a linux CAD program that can read (open) DXF files?? Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 16:30:52 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:30:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: CAD program that can work with DXFs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Steve wrote: > Does anyone know if there exists a linux CAD program that can read > (open) DXF files?? qcad ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 16:34:21 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:34:21 -0400 Subject: CAD program that can work with DXFs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097166860.2984.1.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:15, Steve wrote: > Does anyone know if there exists a linux CAD program that can read > (open) DXF files?? I have had some success (80% ?) with QCad (ribbonsoft) importing CAD from autocad generated .dxf. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 16:45:04 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:45:04 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041007164504.GA462@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 10:33:40AM -0400, phil wrote: > I need a new computer. I've finally run up against the limits of the > old Dell I'm using for Linux, realizing that adding enough Rambus > memory to make it workable for new applications would cost more than > another system (...and afterward it would still be slow and in need of > more disk space). This is really only a problem because, as a software > specialist, I typically think of hardware as something that *impedes* > computing. :-) > > My requirements are for something reasonably capable, but not fancy; > most of my development is server-side stuff and for my "play" > applications (graphics, music...) I have my Macs. Probably my only > slightly unusual needs -- compared to the standard ads I'm reading -- > are a dual-processor box for testing concurrent programming and a > CD/DVD writer. Otherwise, a gig of RAM, maybe 160 disk, and "standard" > support for audio, video, USB, ethernet.... > > (For unavoidable business reasons, it will almost certainly be > dual-booted with some version of Windows...sigh.) > > So, the question is, are any of the Toronto stores being discussed > Linux-aware to the degree that I could walk in and ask for a bunch of > features, with the caveat that the hardware must work with an > up-to-date Linux distro? > > I don't object to doing research in order to learn what's supported, > except that it's hard to know when you're finished. (For example: > SuSE's site lists most multi-processor motherboards as 'partial' or > 'unknown' support. Other sites recommend certain boards and then, in > the fine print, say things like "of course you won't be able to use the > on-board SATA controller". Aaaarrrggh!) > > What's a recommended approach for someone who just wants to produce > software and doesn't want to turn hardware acquisition into a full-time > hobby? Buy a motherboard with minimal builtins, then add PCI cards of your choice. Most motherboards nowdays includes audio, video, network, USB. But, they have become fairly standard, that there shouldn't be any issue. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 16:56:15 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:56:15 -0400 Subject: mysql question In-Reply-To: <20041007153322.27953.qmail-+Hr5lMjvZOWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041007153322.27953.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:33 AM, hui xu wrote: > I had a project which need to insert email addresses into mysql table > with a condition, For example, If the email address is already in the > mysql table, Do not insert it into MYSQL table. otherwise insert into > mysql table. > > Can anybody tell me how to do it? The simple way is first to try to retrieve a record with that email address. If the retrieval succeeds, don't write it. ...or, probably better, make the address a 'UNIQUE' field and then deal with the error when you try to add it a second time. ...or, when MySQL supports triggers, do it as a stored procedure. (I've been using PostgreSQL more than MySQL lately, so I'm not sure which MySQL versions have which features.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 16:57:36 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:57:36 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 7, 2004, at 10:40 AM, Steve wrote: > Is there a particular distro or flavour of linux that you want/need to > use with this hardware. I've used Solaris and BSD and a few Linux distributions, so I'm not too fussy about types of installers and directory layouts. I'm using SuSE 8.1 on the Dell at the moment, but want to upgrade to a newer KDevelop with built-in support for wxWidgets (...and since that has both desktop and base library implications, I don't want to do it in pieces). If that means SuSE 9.1, I'm happy; if something else can get me there with better hardware support, that's just fine too. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 17:20:24 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:20:24 -0400 Subject: mysql question Message-ID: There is a post you might be interested in, http://www.experts-exchange.com/Databases/Mysql/Q_20920874.html I know SQL92 doesn't support insert on duplicate key. So it must be MySQL specific. -----Original Message----- From: phil [mailto:phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org] Sent: October 7, 2004 12:56 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: mysql question On Oct 7, 2004, at 11:33 AM, hui xu wrote: > I had a project which need to insert email addresses into mysql table > with a condition, For example, If the email address is already in the > mysql table, Do not insert it into MYSQL table. otherwise insert into > mysql table. > > Can anybody tell me how to do it? The simple way is first to try to retrieve a record with that email address. If the retrieval succeeds, don't write it. ...or, probably better, make the address a 'UNIQUE' field and then deal with the error when you try to add it a second time. ...or, when MySQL supports triggers, do it as a stored procedure. (I've been using PostgreSQL more than MySQL lately, so I'm not sure which MySQL versions have which features.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:41657576311341669238724! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 17:38:20 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:38:20 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41657F0C.1070603@rogers.com> phil wrote: > So, the question is, are any of the Toronto stores being discussed > Linux-aware to the degree that I could walk in and ask for a bunch of > features, with the caveat that the hardware must work with an up-to-date > Linux distro? There's a store on Dufferin, near Yorkdale, that specializes in Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 17:58:24 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:58:24 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <41657F0C.1070603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41657F0C.1070603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1097171904.416583c05f1d1@www.almatau.com> Quoting James Knott : > phil wrote: > > > So, the question is, are any of the Toronto stores being discussed > > Linux-aware to the degree that I could walk in and ask for a bunch of > > features, with the caveat that the hardware must work with an up-to-date > > Linux distro? > > There's a store on Dufferin, near Yorkdale, that specializes in Linux. I would love to visit it. Do you remember its name? ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:02:54 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:02:54 -0400 Subject: Sub500 (was: Re:Buying something new) In-Reply-To: <1097171904.416583c05f1d1-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <41657F0C.1070603@rogers.com> <1097171904.416583c05f1d1@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <1097172173.2804.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 13:58, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting James Knott : > > There's a store on Dufferin, near Yorkdale, that specializes in Linux. > > I would love to visit it. Do you remember its name? My first post to the list! Sub500.com is the Linux store at Dufferin and Lawrence. My friend bought one of their laptops this summer. They're super nice! The laptop worked out great too :-) -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:03:47 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:03:47 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41658503.9040005@rogers.com> phil wrote: > I need a new computer. I've finally run up against the limits of the > old Dell I'm using for Linux, realizing that adding enough Rambus memory > to make it workable for new applications would cost more than another > system (...and afterward it would still be slow and in need of more disk > space). This is really only a problem because, as a software > specialist, I typically think of hardware as something that *impedes* > computing. :-) If you buy a new IBM computer, you'll have covered something new & something blue. Then all you'll need is something old & something borrowed. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:07:24 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:07:24 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <41657F0C.1070603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41657F0C.1070603@rogers.com> Message-ID: <416585DC.8030407@rogers.com> James Knott wrote: > phil wrote: > >> So, the question is, are any of the Toronto stores being discussed >> Linux-aware to the degree that I could walk in and ask for a bunch of >> features, with the caveat that the hardware must work with an >> up-to-date Linux distro? > > > There's a store on Dufferin, near Yorkdale, that specializes in Linux. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Forgot to mention. Angel Computers in Mississauga, sells some computers loaded with Linux. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:12:14 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:12:14 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <1097171904.416583c05f1d1-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <41657F0C.1070603@rogers.com> <1097171904.416583c05f1d1@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <416586FE.1030200@rogers.com> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting James Knott : > > >>phil wrote: >> >> >>>So, the question is, are any of the Toronto stores being discussed >>>Linux-aware to the degree that I could walk in and ask for a bunch of >>>features, with the caveat that the hardware must work with an up-to-date >>>Linux distro? >> >>There's a store on Dufferin, near Yorkdale, that specializes in Linux. > > > I would love to visit it. Do you remember its name? No, but I believe someone else mentioned it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:12:42 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:12:42 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <41658503.9040005-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41658503.9040005@rogers.com> Message-ID: <575383100.20041007141242@rogers.com> Thursday, October 7, 2004, 2:03:47 PM, you wrote: JK> If you buy a new IBM computer, you'll have covered something new & JK> something blue. Then all you'll need is something old & something JK> borrowed. ;-) Well, you could purchase Doom III and see how close to the System Shock series it is. :) M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:13:28 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:13:28 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <41632AF9.6030301-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 19:15:05 -0400, Anton Markov wrote: > Yes, python would work very well. The advantages would be obvious: it's > cross-platform, and it's a real, live language. The key would be to I was waiting for someone to mention Python. :) It evolved out of ABC, which was a teaching language, so there's good historical reason to use Python in an educational setting. > integrate it smoothly into the curriculum. The three things we study at > our school is: > > 1) Basic conditional statements, loops, function calls. > This is done in Turing through "fun" activities like animating circles :( > > I would recommend a simple test editor with a "run" and "step through" > button. The language used would be python, but stripped down so that > when the user types 'print "Hello World"' (or whatever it is in Python; > I don't know the language :( ), it outputs that text. That's exactly the syntax. :) You don't have to strip anything down, either. >From your shell, type "python". You're then left at a Python prompt, from which you can immediately type 'print "Hello World"', and it will. > Adding some wrapper functions to standard GTK calls for drawing circles, > lines, squares, etc. and outputting to a GTK windows would be enought to > surpass the basic Turing functionality. The wxWindows cross-platform widget set has the wxPython bindings. That will give you native look-and-feel wherever it runs. > 2) Event-oriented programming. > Currently VB is used for this. > > Use an IDE such as Anjuta or something similar that integrates Glade > with an editor. Continuing to use Python would be advantageous, because > the syntax does not change. > > 3) Object-oriented and modular programming (perhaps network support, etc.) > This is done in Java. > > I think this should be left alone, because many Universities use Java in > the first-year courses from what I hear. > > Of course it's never too early to teach C++, as long as the kids are > bright enough to handle it :) I might disagree. I had a prof who claimed that C++ was like a VERY SHARP Samauri blade: when wielded expertly, it was an exquisite tool; when tossed around, one tends to cut off arms and legs. > So here's the basic question: has there been any progress already done > in this area? If not, would someone be interested in coding up at least > the first idea on the above list? It shouldn't be too difficult, and > would even serve and a Windows replacement for Turing. Perhaps a > "Written in Python for Python" idea would be cool; at the end of the > year have the students examine the sourcecode for the software they've > used all year. BTW, Python is written in plain old C. Extending the Python language with C functions is relatively simple. I managed to do it for the very first time while on an airplane with my PowerBook. The documentation was all already included, and the procedure relatively straightforward. As a bonus, there is at least one FREE textbook you can use for the class: http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/ There are many other good books (for $$) on the topic as well, in addition to the excellent resources on the Python website: http://www.python.org -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:44:03 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:44:03 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20041007184403.GA9495@seahorse> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 02:13:28PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > As a bonus, there is at least one FREE textbook you can use for the class: > http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/ > > There are many other good books (for $$) on the topic as well, in addition > to the excellent resources on the Python website: > http://www.python.org I'd also take a peek at: http://www.diveintopython.org ... another free python Book. And "How to think like a Computer Scientist": http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy I'm trying to stretch my Python wings (shake my Python rattle? wait, Python's don't have rattles... okay the analogy is dead, move along, nothing to see...) and I've found both these free online books quite good. Regards, Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:47:48 2004 From: patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Patrick) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:47:48 -0400 Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> If anybody has a moment I would appreciate an answer to a very, very basic question. I have downloaded and saved a file called "thunderbird 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz". How should I phrase the command to unzip it? Alternatively, I am using SuSe 9.1 personal. Is there a program to do the unzipping? I have not been able to find one. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:49:11 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:49:11 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <20041007184403.GA9495@seahorse> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> <20041007184403.GA9495@seahorse> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:44:03 -0400, Andy Jack wrote: > > As a bonus, there is at least one FREE textbook you can use for the class: > > http://www.greenteapress.com/thinkpython/ > ... another free python Book. > > And "How to think like a Computer Scientist": > > http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy "And now for something completely similar..." These are actually the same book. :) > I'd also take a peek at: > > http://www.diveintopython.org Ooh, neat! More resources! :D > I'm trying to stretch my Python wings (shake my Python rattle? wait, > Python's don't have rattles... okay the analogy is dead, move along, > nothing to see...) and I've found both these free online books quite > good. You should *SPAM* try taking *SPAM* your *SPAM* Python to *SPAM* the circus *SPAM*. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:57:33 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 14:57:33 -0400 Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4165919D.6090000@alteeve.com> Patrick wrote: > If anybody has a moment I would appreciate an answer to a very, very basic > question. I have downloaded and saved a file called "thunderbird > 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz". How should I phrase the command to unzip > it? Alternatively, I am using SuSe 9.1 personal. Is there a program to do the > unzipping? I have not been able to find one. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > $ tar -xvzf thunderbird 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz Be in the directory that you want the files extracted within. -x = extract, v = verbose, z = un(g)zip, f = file to extract hope that helps! -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 18:59:48 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:59:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Patrick wrote: > If anybody has a moment I would appreciate an answer to a very, very basic > question. I have downloaded and saved a file called "thunderbird > 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz". How should I phrase the command to unzip > it? The file extensions tell you it is a gzipped tar file. You can unzip it with gunzip thunderbird-0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz which will produce thunderbird-0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar and then you can untar it with tar -xf thunderbird-0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar .. or .. you can unzip and untar it all at once with tar -xzf thunderbird-0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz Note that both of the preceding tar commands will unpackage this software in your current directory. You can change that with the -C tar argument, but your best bet is to man tar to better understand how it all works. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 19:03:52 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Patrick wrote: > If anybody has a moment I would appreciate an answer to a very, very basic > question. I have downloaded and saved a file called "thunderbird > 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz". How should I phrase the command to unzip > it? Alternatively, I am using SuSe 9.1 personal. Is there a program to do the > unzipping? I have not been able to find one. filename="thunderbird 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz" tar xvzf "$filename" -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 19:04:55 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:04:55 -0400 Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <4165919D.6090000-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> <4165919D.6090000@alteeve.com> Message-ID: > $ tar -xvzf thunderbird 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz > > Be in the directory that you want the files extracted within. > > -x = extract, v = verbose, z = un(g)zip, f = file to extract For future reference, if you ever get a .tar.bz2 file, you can use the -j flag instead of the -z. For example, if you get a file like: thunderbird 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.bz2 You can do: tar -xvjf thunderbird 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.bz2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 19:09:06 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 15:09:06 -0400 Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1193477306.20041007150906@rogers.com> Thursday, October 7, 2004, 2:47:48 PM, you wrote: P> If anybody has a moment I would appreciate an answer to a very, very basic P> question. I have downloaded and saved a file called "thunderbird P> 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz". How should I phrase the command to unzip P> it? Alternatively, I am using SuSe 9.1 personal. Is there a program to do the P> unzipping? I have not been able to find one. Patrick, In terms of GUI-equipped apps, you can also try Ark (KDE) or Fileroller (Gnome). The layout is similar to Win apps like WinZip. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 20:01:25 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:01:25 -0400 Subject: Linux backup software Message-ID: <4165A095.4080804@knet.ca> What linux backup software program can do (as many as possible) backing up to local and or remote drives, RSYNC servers, DLT or DAT or tapes, TARS, able to handle open Samba and some open unix sockets. I would imagine I would have to use something like Arkeia -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 20:34:25 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 16:34:25 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <575383100.20041007141242-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41658503.9040005@rogers.com> <575383100.20041007141242@rogers.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f0410071334419a3745@mail.gmail.com> Speaking of linux-related stores, does anyone know where i could get, say, a t-shirt with tux on it, etc, linux gear basically. I can do a custom one (at a screen-printing place), but somehow, getting a premade one seems to be less hassle I'm looking for an actual store, preferably closer to the north end of the city. Thinkgeek has a few, but I rarely trust the security of any web store Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 20:45:38 2004 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:45:38 -0400 Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4165AAF2.3060204@cogeco.ca> Patrick wrote: > If anybody has a moment I would appreciate an answer to a very, very basic > question. I have downloaded and saved a file called "thunderbird > 0.8-j686-linux-gtik2+xft.tar.gz". I'm not familiar with Suse and it's YAST update manager. But I have heard many good things about it. If you're installing Thunderbird, (Which rocks btw) you might want to see if Suse's repositories have it packaged for you already. I use Synaptic when upgrading T-Bird and Firefox and it's always worked very well for me. Good luck. PA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 21:13:52 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:13:52 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f0410071334419a3745-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <41658503.9040005@rogers.com> <575383100.20041007141242@rogers.com> <96aa4e8f0410071334419a3745@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4165B190.5010206@rogers.com> Igor Denisov wrote: > Speaking of linux-related stores, does anyone know where i could get, > say, a t-shirt with tux on it, etc, linux gear basically. > I can do a custom one (at a screen-printing place), but somehow, > getting a premade one seems to be less hassle > > I'm looking for an actual store, preferably closer to the north end of the city. > Thinkgeek has a few, but I rarely trust the security of any web store Actually, you can make your own. You can buy the iron on transfer paper from Staples or Future shop. Just printout "Tux" on that paper and iron it on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 21:26:41 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:26:41 -0400 Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <4165B491.7050506@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Taavi Burns wrote: |>1) Basic conditional statements, loops, function calls. |>This is done in Turing through "fun" activities like animating circles :( |> |>I would recommend a simple test editor with a "run" and "step through" |>button. The language used would be python, but stripped down so that |>when the user types 'print "Hello World"' (or whatever it is in Python; |>I don't know the language :( ), it outputs that text. | | | That's exactly the syntax. :) You don't have to strip anything down, either. | From your shell, type "python". You're then left at a Python prompt, from which | you can immediately type 'print "Hello World"', and it will. | Even better. |>Adding some wrapper functions to standard GTK calls for drawing circles, |>lines, squares, etc. and outputting to a GTK windows would be enought to |>surpass the basic Turing functionality. | | | The wxWindows cross-platform widget set has the wxPython bindings. That | will give you native look-and-feel wherever it runs. Widgets probably don't matter at this stage. A single window will do, so long as one can draw stuff onto it. For example, Turing makes it very easy to draw basic geometric figures into a Window; something I haven't seen in any other language yet (of those I've used). For example, to draw a circle: setscreen("graphics:640;480) drawfilloval(100,100,40,40,red) would draw a circle at (100,100) with a radius of 40 and red in color. I am sure it would be trivial to write a library implementing something similar in Python. It makes learning programming fun for the more "artistic" people. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBZbSPRreNkzrRRLQRAlQEAJ4ubsgyMdCMmRYLXUR2ezmr/4sHagCggBp7 cZpLubUxrKMSg4RoJ9mgvDw= =pXr9 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 21:27:14 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:27:14 -0400 Subject: Linux backup software In-Reply-To: <4165A095.4080804-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <4165A095.4080804@knet.ca> Message-ID: <4165B4B2.2080409@detachednetworks.ca> Teddy Mills wrote: > > What linux backup software program can do (as many as possible) > > backing up to > local and or remote drives, RSYNC servers, DLT or DAT or tapes, TARS, > able to handle open Samba and some open unix sockets. > > I would imagine I would have to use something like Arkeia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I use mondo backup for most of my applications. http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/about/about.html backs up to tape, CD-R, CD-RW, NFS or hard disk partition. -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 22:04:27 2004 From: jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (jon.dmml-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:04:27 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <4165B190.5010206-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41658503.9040005@rogers.com> <575383100.20041007141242@rogers.com> <96aa4e8f0410071334419a3745@mail.gmail.com> <4165B190.5010206@rogers.com> Message-ID: <8eb589e04100715045f7d39cb@mail.gmail.com> you can get some merchandise from redhat... On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 17:13:52 -0400, James Knott wrote: > Igor Denisov wrote: > > Speaking of linux-related stores, does anyone know where i could get, > > say, a t-shirt with tux on it, etc, linux gear basically. > > I can do a custom one (at a screen-printing place), but somehow, > > getting a premade one seems to be less hassle > > > > I'm looking for an actual store, preferably closer to the north end of the city. > > Thinkgeek has a few, but I rarely trust the security of any web store > > Actually, you can make your own. You can buy the iron on transfer paper > from Staples or Future shop. Just printout "Tux" on that paper and iron > it on. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Check out www.ihost4u.net for fast afforable and relibable web hosting Jonathan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 23:34:21 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 07 Oct 2004 19:34:21 -0400 Subject: proftpd port <> 21 Message-ID: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> I do not seem to be able to run proftpd on any posrt other than 21 when launching proftpd via inetd. The problem is _not_ iptables related. No matter what port I specify in /etc/proftpd.conf (except 21) the specified port will not work. But no matter what port I specify in /etc/proftpd.conf the ftp server is accessible on port 21 By switching the call from ``inetd'' to ``standalone'' in /etc/proftpd.conf and startiing proftpd via a call to proftpd in /etc/rc.d/rc.local I get connected on _any_ port specified in /etc/proftpd.conf. Weird. Anybody have any ideas? Particularly slack-current users? I have never run proftpd before, having preferred Xitami, but now have a need for a second server. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 23:38:02 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 19:38:02 -0400 Subject: CAD program that can work with DXFs? In-Reply-To: <1097166860.2984.1.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097166860.2984.1.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4165D35A.7090509@rogers.com> I thought ALL CAD programs imported DXF files Tom >On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 12:15, Steve wrote: > > >>Does anyone know if there exists a linux CAD program that can read >>(open) DXF files?? >> -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 00:33:14 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 07 Oct 2004 20:33:14 -0400 Subject: CAD program that can work with DXFs? In-Reply-To: <4165D35A.7090509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097166860.2984.1.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <4165D35A.7090509@rogers.com> Message-ID: Tom Legrady writes: > I thought ALL CAD programs imported DXF files Dunno. I always thought that DXF was an ASCII representation of Autocad's DXB. We have some clients that like varicad, BTW. And it seems to support 2D DXF [and 2D/3D DXB] based on a really fast google search [DXF varicad]. Varicad's viewer is free, too. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 00:56:21 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 20:56:21 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: <200410070745.47054.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> <200410062207.17527.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200410070745.47054.m-cahill@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410072056.21007.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 07 October 2004 07:45, Matt Cahill wrote: > ? Unfortunately, not even setting a custom REJECT for javascript seems to > work (tried both 'globetechnology.com' and 'globeandmail.com'). ?The ironic > thing is that, by the time I get around to upgrading to 3.3 or fixing this > issue, I'm sure the Globe will make all but the most uninteresting articles > for paying members only :( Yeah, that's a new development. It might be a good one though. If a newspaper were to go with a completely paperless version I might just buy it. The online version should be significantly cheaper of course since their production costs are drastically reduced. I don't feel good about the volume of trees being needlessly destroyed to get me the news but I do still prefer the physical book/paper versus digital ones. Regarding the javascript try also blocking javascript for www.globetechnology.com and www.globeandmail.com ... the wording is unclear, I don't think that blocking globeandmail.com blocks subdomains (www, whatever) as well ... I had that same problem. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 02:07:38 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:07:38 -0400 Subject: proftpd port <> 21 In-Reply-To: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf-GtzO1qr/b/653Rd6M7GqU0CW56haWIzXIrC0AzgbhvsKu2YovVVDERgSKFK9O5hcLMHrShElKjA@public.gmane.org> References: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041008020738.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 07:34:21PM -0400, SlackRat wrote: > I do not seem to be able to run proftpd on any posrt other than 21 when > launching proftpd via inetd. > > The problem is _not_ iptables related. > > No matter what port I specify in /etc/proftpd.conf (except 21) the specified > port will not work. But no matter what port I specify in /etc/proftpd.conf the > ftp server is accessible on port 21 > > By switching the call from ``inetd'' to ``standalone'' in /etc/proftpd.conf > and startiing proftpd via a call to proftpd in /etc/rc.d/rc.local I get > connected on _any_ port specified in /etc/proftpd.conf. > > Weird. > > Anybody have any ideas? Particularly slack-current users? > > I have never run proftpd before, having preferred Xitami, but now have a need > for a second server. Remember inetd binds to whatever port is used for the service type you list it as, so rather than listing it as ftp service you might want to list it as 'myftp' or something and add that to /etc/services. inetd does not care one bit what your proftpd.conf file says to use. I really hate inetd. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 02:12:18 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 22:12:18 -0400 Subject: Buying something new In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f041007090326f070fb-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1097161191.2731.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <4386c5b20410070821134ee04d@mail.gmail.com> <96aa4e8f041007090326f070fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041008021218.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 12:03:58PM -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > I guess the important question is, what is your budget? > If you are looking at a dual processor box, on the low end of the > scale you'll ahve your Athlon MPs or older Xeons, AMD still being > cheaper. > > If you want something better, the Opterons are the way to go, under > Linux, they seem to perform much better than the ne 64-bit enabled > Xeons, especially in server apps, see > > http://www.anandtech.com/linux/showdoc.aspx?i=2163&p=8 > > and > > http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030422/opteron-17.html > > Also, are you going to build it yourself? > I'm not aware of any PC shops around the city that would more or less > specialized > > Distro-wise, I personally am sticking to my SuSE 9.1 > So far, it is the only distro that properly recognized my SATA > controller (a via one, I think, on an nForce2 board, and it seems to > be unsupported officially), something that even win2k had trouble > with. Well the nforce2 board I have at work (Asus A7N8X-E-DX) has an SII3112A SATA controller which works perfectly with 2.4.25+ and 2.6.x with no problems at all, as does the P4P800 (intel ICH5R SATA controller). My next machine will be an Athlon 64 though when I get money for that (just bought house, have to pay for that a bit first). :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 05:59:42 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 08 Oct 2004 01:59:42 -0400 Subject: proftpd port <> 21 In-Reply-To: <20041008020738.GD8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041008020738.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <877jq1g375.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > Remember inetd binds to whatever port is used for the service type you > list it as, so rather than listing it as ftp service you might want to > list it as 'myftp' or something and add that to /etc/services. inetd > does not care one bit what your proftpd.conf file says to use. > I actually knew that once you mentioned it. I'd been sorta led astray by the fact that http is also in inetd and not commented out, and thinking that proftpd should similarly work from inetd, but in actual fact inetd doesn't launch the http daemon. That is done, at least on a slack system, via /etc/rc.httpd Thanks Lennart. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 7 21:33:09 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 17:33:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux in the TDSB In-Reply-To: <4165B491.7050506-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f04100418386c7f9900@mail.gmail.com> <20041005022133.GA7816@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f041004193333b20713@mail.gmail.com> <41621AF8.2010205@truxtar.com> <20041005133051.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41632AF9.6030301@truxtar.com> <4165B491.7050506@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Anton Markov wrote: > setscreen("graphics:640;480) > drawfilloval(100,100,40,40,red) > > would draw a circle at (100,100) with a radius of 40 and red in color. I > am sure it would be trivial to write a library implementing something > similar in Python. It makes learning programming fun for the more > "artistic" people. Uh, setscreen() brings back memories of qbasic and zx spectrum. Tcl is at least as easy (and introduces oop and set operations to boot). Whatever happened to Logo ? Logo was suitable for such simple tasks (and much more). I think that there is a Logo implementation for Linux (but if there isn't a subset could be implemented in Tcl in 1 day). In tcl the circle is done like: canvas .c1 pack .c1 .c1 create circle 100 120 80 Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 11:49:24 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 07:49:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: proftpd port <> 21 In-Reply-To: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf-GtzO1qr/b/653Rd6M7GqU0CW56haWIzXIrC0AzgbhvsKu2YovVVDERgSKFK9O5hcLMHrShElKjA@public.gmane.org> References: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: When you run something from inetd then inetd.conf and /etc/services determine the port number. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 12:47:47 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:47:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: proftpd port <> 21 In-Reply-To: <20041008020738.GD8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041008020738.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I really hate inetd. :) Why ? It's a one-stop solution for all the servers on the machine and, assuming load is low, saves memory by not running those that are not called upon by clients. Also instead of running 1 dozen daemons you only run one. You can switch 'runlevels' by substituting inetd.conf and sending inetd a signal. Very convenient imho. Of course it is not a good idea for high load. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 14:17:13 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 10:17:13 -0400 Subject: CAD program that can work with DXFs? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041008101713.0429d9a4.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:15:57 -0400 Steve wrote: > Does anyone know if there exists a linux CAD program that can read > (open) DXF files?? > > Thanks. Steve, The free downloadable version of QCAD uses DXF as its file format. http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html I have not tried the commercial version of it yet. I am kind of hoping it has its own native format now, since the DXF save loses some data format. Also, I would like to see blocks like the ones in AutoCAD. I can manage all its other limitations. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 12:22:36 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:22:36 -0400 Subject: CAD program that can work with DXFs? In-Reply-To: <4165D35A.7090509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097166860.2984.1.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <4165D35A.7090509@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4166868C.7000107@sympatico.ca> Tom Legrady wrote: > > I thought ALL CAD programs imported DXF files Oh jings, no. DXF is a mess of add-ons, hacks, and just plain awfulness. Once you've got a workflow that works well enough, stick with it. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 17:09:13 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:09:13 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package Message-ID: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am looking for an accounting package that would work or be accessible from both Linux and Microsoft machines. Does anyone have any pointers by chance? Thanks! -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 17:17:35 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:17:35 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package In-Reply-To: <4166C9B9.9020506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4166CBAF.2050209@geek-girls.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for an accounting package that would work or be > accessible from both Linux and Microsoft machines. Does anyone have > any pointers by chance? Thanks! JMoney runs on both, but I can't attest to how good it is. There's also GNUCash and its QIF export option. http://jmoney.sourceforge.net http://gnucashtoqif.sourceforge.net HTH, -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 17:21:46 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 13:21:46 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package In-Reply-To: <4166C9B9.9020506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4166CCAA.8080306@geek-girls.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for an accounting package that would work or be > accessible from both Linux and Microsoft machines. Does anyone have > any pointers by chance? Thanks! Jeez, how could I forget Moneydance: http://www.moneydance.com/ -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 18:03:16 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:03:16 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package In-Reply-To: <4166CCAA.8080306-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> <4166CCAA.8080306@geek-girls.ca> Message-ID: <4166D664.9010305@alteeve.com> Leigh Honeywell wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I am looking for an accounting package that would work or be >> accessible from both Linux and Microsoft machines. Does anyone have >> any pointers by chance? Thanks! > > > Jeez, how could I forget Moneydance: > http://www.moneydance.com/ > > -Leigh > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > Thanks Leigh! I will check them out now. Are any a personal favourite? -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 18:17:45 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:17:45 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package In-Reply-To: <4166C9B9.9020506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1097259464.2772.0.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 13:09, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I am looking for an accounting package that would work or be > accessible from both Linux and Microsoft machines. Does anyone have any > pointers by chance? Thanks! jgnash shows promise, runs on java and can be found at; http://jgnash.sourceforge.net/ djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 18:57:59 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:57:59 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package In-Reply-To: <4166C9B9.9020506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200410081457.59492.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 08 October 2004 13:09, Madison Kelly wrote: > I am looking for an accounting package that would work or be > accessible from both Linux and Microsoft machines. Does anyone have any > pointers by chance? Thanks! I've been using SQL Ledger at home for basic invoicing and sales tracking needs. There are things I need to do (recurring invoices) which I don't know how to do ... they might be possible I just haven't read the documentation fully. As far as I know the only interface is web based, web based interfaces are nice but other options would be even nicer. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilh-bXRf4i9N8VRnz3GQr/xE2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 19:07:15 2004 From: gilh-bXRf4i9N8VRnz3GQr/xE2Q at public.gmane.org (Gil Hauer) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:07:15 -0400 Subject: Linux backup software In-Reply-To: <4165A095.4080804-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <4165A095.4080804@knet.ca> Message-ID: <1097262435.3212.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've been using rdiff-backup to archive directories from several servers and workstations to a central server (at night, over the network) and then archiving that regularly onto a recordable DVD. Gil On Thu, 2004-10-07 at 16:01, Teddy Mills wrote: > What linux backup software program can do (as many as possible) > > backing up to > local and or remote drives, RSYNC servers, DLT or DAT or tapes, TARS, > able to handle open Samba and some open unix sockets. > > I would imagine I would have to use something like Arkeia > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 19:50:26 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:50:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: where is gasp ? (gnu assembler preprocessor) ? Message-ID: Where did it disappear ? I have problems building netboot and I cannot find this file. Why ? gnu.org says it is in binutils but it is not (2.14). What now ? Has anyone built the roms for netboot successfully ? If so, using what toolchain ? thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 20:05:26 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:05:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Microsoft Unix application migration guide Message-ID: Could be useful. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 20:52:29 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 16:52:29 -0400 Subject: Microsoft Unix application migration guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4166FE0D.5000004@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Just to clarify things, it's about migrating Unix applications to _Windows_. Peter L. Peres wrote: | | | | | Could be useful. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBZv4MRreNkzrRRLQRAs1hAJ9Q1BJE0gwfZtbEIM96Rg1a37iu9QCfdCbI shcaIVhG7de6AL0q174A6ws= =sK00 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 20:54:30 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 16:54:30 -0400 Subject: where is gasp ? (gnu assembler preprocessor) ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041008205430.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 03:50:26PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Where did it disappear ? I have problems building netboot and I cannot > find this file. Why ? gnu.org says it is in binutils but it is not (2.14). > > What now ? > > Has anyone built the roms for netboot successfully ? If so, using what > toolchain ? I certainly don't have gasp as a program on my machine. I thought gnu assembler did it's own preprocessing. I haven't ever tried building any netboot roms though. All my current hardware has PXE support built in with onboard network or by supporting my add in card in the BIOS (Yay 3c905C + A7V bios). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 21:06:54 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:06:54 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package In-Reply-To: <4166D664.9010305-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> <4166CCAA.8080306@geek-girls.ca> <4166D664.9010305@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1097265192.2961.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 14:03, Madison Kelly wrote: > Thanks Leigh! I will check them out now. Are any a personal favourite? I've poked around in GNUcash and it seems excellent and powerful. To be honest though... my dad still does my taxes so I don't really have any idea :-) -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 21:15:28 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 17:15:28 -0400 Subject: looking for a cross platform (Linux/MS) accounting package In-Reply-To: <1097265192.2961.1.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <4166C9B9.9020506@alteeve.com> <4166CCAA.8080306@geek-girls.ca> <4166D664.9010305@alteeve.com> <1097265192.2961.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <41670370.8050209@detachednetworks.ca> Leigh Honeywell wrote: >On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 14:03, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >>Thanks Leigh! I will check them out now. Are any a personal favourite? >> >> > >I've poked around in GNUcash and it seems excellent and powerful. To be >honest though... my dad still does my taxes so I don't really have any >idea :-) > >-Leigh > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > http://www.sql-ledger.org From their site: -snip- SQL-Ledger is a double entry accounting system. Accounting data is stored in a SQL Server, for the display any text or GUI browser can be used. The entire system is linked through a chart of accounts. Each item in inventory is linked to revenue, expense, inventory and tax accounts. When you sell and purchase goods and services the accounts are automatically updated. With the assembly feature you can build manufactured goods from parts, services and assemblies. When you sell assemblies all the accounts linked to the individual parts, services and assemblies are updated and stock levels adjusted accordingly. If any item belonging to an assembly is changed all assemblies are updated as well. Invoices, Packing List, Income Statement, Balance Sheet, Sales and Purchase Order, Statements, Receipts and Checks are generated from templates and can be changed to suit your needs. Templates are provided in html and tex format. The tex templates are processed with latex to produce postscript and PDF documents and can be sent to a printer, displayed in a PDF viewer or sent out via email ... SQL-Ledger can be used on any UNIX, Mac OS X and Windows computer. The application is written in Perl, developed on FreeBSD and Linux with Galeon, Konqueror, Netscape, Lynx, Links, W3M, Voyager, Explorer to render the display, Apache, thttpd, boa to communicate between the server and the browser, and PostgreSQL, Oracle, or DB2 to store accounting data. -snip- -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 21:53:49 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:53:49 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree Message-ID: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified directory tree. I figured something like: find . -name *.jpg in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do this: convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 21:59:39 2004 From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:59:39 -0400 Subject: Looking for Via Epia motherboards in T.O. In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005195429.022add30-r/7WXmsJ4YwmUADH0d6UyityHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from vertaxis-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Tue, Oct 05, 2004 at 07:59:54PM -0400 References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005195429.022add30@pop.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041008175939.P19408@leftmind.net> vertaxis wrote: > My Linux firewall box is on it's last legs and I'm looking to build a > replacement system. Does anyone know of a store in Toronto that's selling > any of the Via Epia mini-ITX motherboards with the C3 processors? Tiger Direct lists one in their "Canadian"[0] catalogue, but a look-about in their Markham store doesn't find one. [0] as in, stuff is shipped from Illnois. YMMV. -- Anthony de Boer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 22:07:30 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 18:07:30 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041008215349.GA16027-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20041008220730.DDC0F4605@cbbrowne.com> > What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified > directory tree. I figured something like: > > find . -name *.jpg > > in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, > but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do > this: > > convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME > > Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. > Thanks. There's a way of doing this inside the find command, but I'd suggest the following: for picture in `find . -name *.jpg`; do convert $picture -resize 425 $filename done This makes it easy to extend it to have some meaningful output... a=1; for picture in `find . -name *.jpg`; do echo "Processing picture $a - $picture" convert $picture -resize 425 $filename ((a++) done -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "gmail.com") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html Seen in dust on Lucent truck: "Test dirt - do not remove." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 22:22:00 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 18:22:00 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041008215349.GA16027-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200410081822.00562.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Friday 08 October 2004 05:53 pm, William O'Higgins wrote: > What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified > directory tree. I figured something like: > > find . -name *.jpg > > in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, > but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do > this: > > convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME > > Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. > Thanks. Try this: # /bin/bash for file in *.jpg do convert $file -resize 425 $file done John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 22:48:20 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 18:48:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041008215349.GA16027-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, William O'Higgins wrote: > What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified > directory tree. I figured something like: > > find . -name *.jpg > > in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, > but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do > this: > > convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME > > Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. So long as there are no filenames containing newlines: find . -type f -name "*,jpg" | while IFS= read -r FILENAME do convert "$FILENAME" -resize 425 "$FILENAME" done -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 22:55:22 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 18:55:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041008220730.DDC0F4605-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20041008220730.DDC0F4605@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Christopher Browne wrote: >> What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified >> directory tree. I figured something like: >> >> find . -name *.jpg >> >> in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, >> but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do >> this: >> >> convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME >> >> Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. >> Thanks. > > There's a way of doing this inside the find command, but I'd suggest the > following: > > for picture in `find . -name *.jpg`; do > convert $picture -resize 425 $filename > done This will fail if there are any whitespace or wildcard characters in the filenames. It will also overwrite $filename if there is more than one .jpg in any directory. It would be better if IFS=$'\n', but it's not a good idea to iterate over the output of a command in this manner, especially when dealing with filenames. > This makes it easy to extend it to have some meaningful output... > > a=1; for picture in `find . -name *.jpg`; do > echo "Processing picture $a - $picture" > convert $picture -resize 425 $filename > ((a++) > done -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 23:13:48 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:13:48 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200410081913.48038.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 08 October 2004 18:48, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > ? ? ? So long as there are no filenames containing newlines: > > find . -type f -name "*,jpg" | > ? while IFS= read -r FILENAME > ? do > ? ? ?convert "$FILENAME" -resize 425 "$FILENAME" > ? done Why not just: find . -type f -name \*.jpg | while read file; do convert "$file" -resize 425 "small-$file" done My question I guess is what's the difference between "while IFS= read -r file" and "while read file"? Also I'd think input and output files should be different on the conver command, though I'm not sure what op wanted. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 23:24:10 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 19:24:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <200410081913.48038.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200410081913.48038.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Friday 08 October 2004 18:48, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> ? ? ? So long as there are no filenames containing newlines: >> >> find . -type f -name "*,jpg" | >> ? while IFS= read -r FILENAME >> ? do >> ? ? ?convert "$FILENAME" -resize 425 "$FILENAME" >> ? done > > Why not just: > > find . -type f -name \*.jpg | while read file; do > convert "$file" -resize 425 "small-$file" > done > > My question I guess is what's the difference between > "while IFS= read -r file" and "while read file"? Compare: fn=" qwe\x x.jpg" printf "%s\n" "$fn" | { IFS= read -r x; printf ":%s:\n" "$x"; } printf "%s\n" "$fn" | { read -r x; printf ":%s:\n" "$x"; } printf "%s\n" "$fn" | { read x; printf ":%s:\n" "$x"; } > Also I'd think input and output files should be different on the conver > command, though I'm not sure what op wanted. Agreed. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 00:25:29 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 20:25:29 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <200410081913.48038.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200410081913.48038.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20041009002529.GA16533@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 07:13:48PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: >On Friday 08 October 2004 18:48, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> ? ? ? So long as there are no filenames containing newlines: >> >> find . -type f -name "*,jpg" | >> ? while IFS= read -r FILENAME >> ? do >> ? ? ?convert "$FILENAME" -resize 425 "$FILENAME" >> ? done > >Why not just: > > find . -type f -name \*.jpg | while read file; do > convert "$file" -resize 425 "small-$file" > done > > >Also I'd think input and output files should be different on the conver >command, though I'm not sure what op wanted. Thanks for all of the help so far. I have control over the files in question, and they are all named in a sane manner. I am looking to overwrite the files with their smaller counterparts, so replacing $FILENAME with $FILENAME is appropriate in this case, but thanks for checking. Why would you escape the asterisk in the find command, by the way? -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 00:43:32 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 20:43:32 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041009002529.GA16533-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200410081913.48038.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20041009002529.GA16533@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200410082043.32805.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 08 October 2004 20:25, William O'Higgins wrote: > Why would you escape the asterisk in the find command, by the way? Because otherwise the shell might gobble it up before find sees it. That does happen in zsh: shieldaig% find . -type f -name *.jpg | while read file; do echo $file done zsh: no matches found: *.jpg Bash doesn't expand the * not sure why that is but careful perusal of bash and zsh man pages would likely explain it. I escape out of habit, since that way it works in both of the shells I commonly use (zsh and bash). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 02:11:11 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 22:11:11 -0400 Subject: proftpd port <> 21 In-Reply-To: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf-GtzO1qr/b/653Rd6M7GqU0CW56haWIzXIrC0AzgbhvsKu2YovVVDERgSKFK9O5hcLMHrShElKjA@public.gmane.org> References: <87fz4qf6gy.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041009021111.GB9360@m450> On Thu, Oct 07, 2004 at 07:34:21PM -0400, SlackRat wrote > By switching the call from ``inetd'' to ``standalone'' in > /etc/proftpd.conf and startiing proftpd via a call to proftpd > in /etc/rc.d/rc.local I get connected on _any_ port specified in > /etc/proftpd.conf. > > Weird. > > Anybody have any ideas? Particularly slack-current users? A CRUX user here. Check /etc/inetd.conf and /etc/hosts.allow to make sure that they both allow the port you want to use. Ferinstance, sshd checks /etc/hosts.deny and /etc/hosts.allow before accepting connections. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 8 21:01:41 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 21:01:41 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <20040930131115.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040930131115.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20041008210141.a35f4ae8@mail.look.ca> At 09:11 AM 2004/09/30 -0400, you wrote: >On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 12:02:51AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: >> At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG >> membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. >> >> I don't recall seeing any announcement here about this, nor do I >> recall seeing something on the website. The membership form mentions >> a "Constitution", which is not available anywhere where I've looked. >> >> So what are the funds going to be used for? What is TLUG trying to do >> here? Who is spear-heading this movement? How does one become >> involved? >> >> Just curious, > >I have certainly never heard of it either, so I am quite sure no such >thing has been announced on the list. Sounds fishy to me. > >Lennart Sorensen >-- I arrived late at the presentation of enhancements to BASH, but I may have the answer. I was told a long time ago that T.L.U.G. is actually two different organizations: one, as a club, and the other, as a legally-incorporated nonprofit corporation, with Mr. Clive Apps as the President. Legally, the Board of Directors is required to announce a vote to all members of the corporation, whenever an executive, or Board member is no longer able to perform his/her duties. Mr. Clive Apps is of limited ability to carry out his Presidential duties, so legally the Board of Directors is required to meet, to have a vote for the new President of the corporation. Actually, this vote is long overdue. Any member of the club "T.L.U.G." is permitted to attend meetings, but only members of the nonprofit corporation "T.L.U.G." are permitted to vote for the new President. The T.L.U.G. corporation must inform all members of the circumstances of the vote, but does not need to inform people who are only club members, because they would be unable to vote anyway. To get more information, contact anyone who is on the Board of Directors of the corporation. To identify people on the Board of Directors, it would probably be a good idea to start by asking the various people who run the club. I expect that they have dealt with someone on the Executive, or on the Board, or someone delegated to either, or reporting to either. I imagine the following as possibilities: | Herb Richter | Richter Equipment, Markham, Ontario | http://PartsAndService.com | http://PartsAndService.ca | Drew Sullivan drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org | http://tlug.ss.org Note that all this may be wrong. I can be totally off base. Jim McIntosh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 05:04:15 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 01:04:15 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 08 Oct 2004 21:01:41." <3.0.6.16.20041008210141.a35f4ae8-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20041008210141.a35f4ae8@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20041009050415.C0FD54605@cbbrowne.com> On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 21:01:41, the world broke into rejoicing as James McIntosh said: > At 09:11 AM 2004/09/30 -0400, you wrote: > >On Thu, Sep 30, 2004 at 12:02:51AM -0400, Paul Mora wrote: > >> At the last NewTLUG meeting, one of the regulars was handing out TLUG > >> membership applications, and charging a $20/year for membership. > >> > >> I don't recall seeing any announcement here about this, nor do I > >> recall seeing something on the website. The membership form mentions > >> a "Constitution", which is not available anywhere where I've looked. > >> > >> So what are the funds going to be used for? What is TLUG trying to do > >> here? Who is spear-heading this movement? How does one become > >> involved? > >> > >> Just curious, > > > >I have certainly never heard of it either, so I am quite sure no such > >thing has been announced on the list. Sounds fishy to me. > > > >Lennart Sorensen > >-- > > I arrived late at the presentation of enhancements to BASH, but I may have > the answer. > > I was told a long time ago that T.L.U.G. is actually two different > organizations: one, as a club, and the other, as a legally-incorporated > nonprofit corporation, with Mr. Clive Apps as the President. > > Legally, the Board of Directors is required to announce a vote to all > members of the corporation, whenever an executive, or Board member is no > longer able to perform his/her duties. > > Mr. Clive Apps is of limited ability to carry out his Presidential duties, > so legally the Board of Directors is required to meet, to have a vote for > the new President of the corporation. > > Actually, this vote is long overdue. Actually, I don't think anything was ever set up as a corporation, at least not until quite recently. > Any member of the club "T.L.U.G." is permitted to attend meetings, but > only members of the nonprofit corporation "T.L.U.G." are permitted to > vote for the new President. Close. Anyone is permitted to attend meetings, but only paid-up members of the NFP corporation "GTA Linux Users Group Org, Inc" can vote for the officers of that organization. > The T.L.U.G. corporation must inform all members of the circumstances > of the vote, but does not need to inform people who are only club > members, because they would be unable to vote anyway. Well, what's vital is that "GTALUG Org Inc" establish a set of paid-up members so that it can hold a meaningful general meeting for the purpose of voting for officers/board members. > To get more information, contact anyone who is on the Board of > Directors of the corporation. > To identify people on the Board of Directors, it would probably be a > good idea to start by asking the various people who run the club. I > expect that they have dealt with someone on the Executive, or on the > Board, or someone delegated to either, or reporting to either. > I imagine the following as possibilities: > > | Herb Richter > | Richter Equipment, Markham, Ontario > | http://PartsAndService.com > | http://PartsAndService.ca > > | Drew Sullivan drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > | http://tlug.ss.org > > Note that all this may be wrong. I can be totally off base. No, you're not off base here, not in the "grand brush strokes," at any rate. There has been an effort to get "TLUG" incorporated; it started probably about 2 years ago. It didn't get into place until the last couple of months. The organization could not be incorporated as "TLUG" because a name search on NUANS (required by the "legal beagles") found that there were other instances of that name, conspicuously: - TLUG, the Tokyo Linux Users Group - TLUG, the Trondheim Linux Users group The list actually goes on... Therefore, you'll find that the legal name is actually _GTA Linux Users Group Org, Inc." The name is different from "TLUG" not out of some desire to change it, but rather because no one would be permitted to use that name. I'm not sure offhand who all of the officers are, at present; I'm reasonably certain that Drew Sullivan is presently "President" and that Bill Thamer holds one of the other offices. I think there are four initial officers, but someone with the actual paperwork needs to weigh in with an "official" comment. What has taken place is, while initially somewhat "private," a typical way of "booting up" such a not-for-profit organization. When organizing a corporation for this sort of thing, the number of initial participants are generally tiny, in much the same way that one may boot a Linux system using a boot loader that has to fit into 512 bytes of memory. There's now a corporation, and an initial board of directors, and there is a formal definition of what "members" are, which is needful for legal purposes. (When I was involved with incorporating NTLUG, the North Texas Linux Users Group, it took well over a year to get from the stage of being "incorporated," with the set of members being the board of directors, to the point in time at which membership became formally defined so that they could start soliciting members 'at large' and thereby have a "representative" democratic governance.) The natural next step is to, as it were, "load in the kernel," start it, and get the _real_ system going. That is, put together some reasonable set of members to transform the initial structure, which was necessarily NOT representative, into what amounts to a form of "representative democracy." There are numerous directions in which this could go: 1. People that have sufficient faith in the merits of the existing set of officers may stand behind them, and build things up in that direction. 2. If people think differently, they might stand "behind" them in a different fashion, perhaps involving the officers being perched somewhere rather precarious, and then, well, "push." That is, people might see about joining, and then voting in a slate of candidates somewhat different from what they began with. 3. The really rather unfortunate possibility would be to ignore it, and to try to do roughly the same thing by starting over. Some money has been spent on legal counsel, and on the incorporation arrangements, as well as some effort that any would-be alternative would have to replicate. It would make a whole lot more sense (and be cheaper!) to push for option #2 rather than #3. Something that is quite unfortunate about the situation (and that should appear troubling) is that such notable participants in this thing as Drew and Bill aren't present on this mailing list to make comment. It seems to me that reading this list would reasonably fit into the "expected responsibilities" of those that wish to be officers. The fact that someone imagined that maybe this "LUG membership thing" could be "fishy" makes it pretty clear that things were not stated clearly enough. It definitely fits into the now-officers' responsibilities to inform people of this in a much clearer fashion than has been done thus far. Seeing as how the incorporation process took a couple of years to take place, it shouldn't come as a total shock that it would take at least a little while before comprehensive information about this would percolate to the mailing list (particularly when some don't bother with it) or to the web site. It's worth noting that: a) is controlled through the domain ss.org, which belongs to Drew Sullivan. b) That, the "TLUG" web site, has long been hosted personally by Drew. You were wondering what funds might be used for? Well, perhaps to allow TLUG to have its web presence without the need of Drew's personal 'charity' in the matter. At present, TLUG gets whatever it is that Drew decides to give. That's not necessarily what's best for everyone else. If Drew got "hit by a bus" (in the Python tradition), or moved, or otherwise acquired new interests, this would cause considerable disruption. c) "Making meetings happen" at U(T) has long involved organizational matters involving, well, Drew. d) Drew may not read the TLUG mailing list, but he does host it. See b). e) [not really related to the others] According to whois, tlug.org is held by an "Adrian Buss" of Kemptville. I'm not at all sure how that weighs in. Holding some sort of "vote of nonconfidence" would doubtless have adverse consequences regarding all of those things (perhaps save e). Which is not the same as saying that no one should ever consider that, but rather that if there is, um, "opposition," it needs to rapidly organize vital things like meeting locations, publicity, and needful Internet services. I am certainly aware that there are a number of people that don't particularly get along with Drew. That merely establishes that there could be some "opposition," but not that there's any real would-be alternative organization lurking in the wings. -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','ntlug.org'). http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/wp.html After eating, do amphibians need to wait an hour before getting OUT of the water? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 08:04:45 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 04:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: where is gasp ? (gnu assembler preprocessor) ? In-Reply-To: <20041008205430.GF8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008205430.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 03:50:26PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> Where did it disappear ? I have problems building netboot and I cannot >> find this file. Why ? gnu.org says it is in binutils but it is not (2.14). >> >> What now ? >> >> Has anyone built the roms for netboot successfully ? If so, using what >> toolchain ? > > I certainly don't have gasp as a program on my machine. I thought gnu > assembler did it's own preprocessing. I haven't ever tried building any > netboot roms though. All my current hardware has PXE support built in > with onboard network or by supporting my add in card in the BIOS (Yay > 3c905C + A7V bios). gasp was deleted sometime after binutils 2.9 came out but the gas does not preprocess the same way gasp used to. The roms are built from 'canned' binaries (source assembled once upon a time and stored in c files as initialised arrays). I am now searching my collection of antique linux cds to find one that has gasp. Ken Yap can't say what toolchain I need to build etherboot (I have trouble building that too). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 08:23:37 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 04:23:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: where is gasp ? (gnu assembler preprocessor) ? In-Reply-To: <20041008205430.GF8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008205430.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 03:50:26PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> Where did it disappear ? I have problems building netboot and I cannot >> find this file. Why ? gnu.org says it is in binutils but it is not (2.14). >> >> What now ? >> >> Has anyone built the roms for netboot successfully ? If so, using what >> toolchain ? > > I certainly don't have gasp as a program on my machine. I thought gnu > assembler did it's own preprocessing. I haven't ever tried building any > netboot roms though. All my current hardware has PXE support built in > with onboard network or by supporting my add in card in the BIOS (Yay > 3c905C + A7V bios). Ok, I have a request. If you have a bootable netboot image (os floppy f.ex.) that runs on netboot can you please send me a copy for testing ? I.e. an image that would be loaded by tftp onto a netbooting machine. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 11:53:50 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 07:53:50 -0400 Subject: Konq + The Globe & Mail In-Reply-To: <200410062207.17527.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200410051408.35810.m-cahill@rogers.com> <200410062207.17527.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200410090753.50881.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 06 October 2004 22:07, Fraser Campbell wrote: > I haven't tried upgrading to 3.3 yet ... Upgraded last night. Globe & Mail now seems to work fine with javascript enabled (in non-extensive tests). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 14:59:45 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 10:59:45 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <4167FCE1.1080104@deeptown.org> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Fri, 8 Oct 2004, William O'Higgins wrote: > >> What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified >> directory tree. I figured something like: >> >> find . -name *.jpg >> >> in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, >> but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do >> this: >> >> convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME >> >> Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. > > > So long as there are no filenames containing newlines: > > find . -type f -name "*,jpg" | > while IFS= read -r FILENAME > do > convert "$FILENAME" -resize 425 "$FILENAME" > done > find . -name "*.jpg" -exec convert {} -resize 425 "small-{}" \; That is it. All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 15:50:47 2004 From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ladislav Svatos) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 11:50:47 -0400 Subject: Looking for Via Epia motherboards in T.O. In-Reply-To: <20041008175939.P19408-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20041005195429.022add30@pop.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041008175939.P19408@leftmind.net> Message-ID: <200410091150.47796.lada@agawa.com> On October 8, 2004 05:59 pm, Anthony de Boer wrote: > vertaxis wrote: > > My Linux firewall box is on it's last legs and I'm looking to build a > > replacement system. Does anyone know of a store in Toronto that's > > selling any of the Via Epia mini-ITX motherboards with the C3 processors? > > Tiger Direct lists one in their "Canadian"[0] catalogue, but a look-about > in their Markham store doesn't find one. > > [0] as in, stuff is shipped from Illnois. YMMV. Two years ago I got mine at Superidea Technology, 333 Denison St, Unit 18, Markham, tel: (905)947-8868. Lada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 16:27:20 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 12:27:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Etherboot-users] re: netboot problem (update: solved in a fashion) In-Reply-To: <20041007231523.CC3321CE4-gw6bHzy0NYjvnOemgxGiVw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041007231523.CC3321CE4@ken.ken.com.au> Message-ID: I managed to first use netboot-0.8.1 from Suse 6.1 (~1998) to generate a floppy image for ne2000 generic (my target uses a rtl8019 (as) nic card), running on a 2.2.16 suse kernel (it would not build on a 2.4 kernel). In addition to working right out of the box, the rom image fits in 16k instead of 32k needed by etherboot and modern (0.9.8) netboot rom images. Then I managed to compile netboot-0.8.1 (including roms) on the same suse 6.1 machine (2.2.16 kernel), but only after getting a modern (not contemporary with suse 6.1, the tools supplied with suse 6.1 failed to build the netboot package, esp wrong as86 version) version of linux86 devtools (as86, bcc etc), namely linux86-0.16.14 and compiling and installing it on the old suse machine. Then I had to fix several errors in netboot-0.8.1 assembly files (duplicate labels and wrong or obsolete bcc and as86 options). I can now boot 'old' clients with cheap isa nics from a more modern server, and I can build my own roms (I need small modifications, like try again forever on error and some hardware initialisation). This confirms that the problem with netboot-0.9.8 is software. I was never able to make a rom image that booted a floppy, regardless of the source floppy I used or the target nic or the machine used (including not the one I used with 0.8.1 above, which worked immediately). Network transfer and dhcp/arp resolution works but no image is run (I tried 4 different dos floppy images). Finding the correct package versions was painful and un-debian-like since the dependency listing (f.ex. for the netboot package) on the debian.org package listings does not mention the dependencies. There should really be a list of things that work with each other, at the netboot or etherboot project sites imho. Again: knoppix hd install/debian testing/unstable, with gcc3.3.3 was unable to build a working rom floppy using etherboot for rtl8019 target nic, the floppy causing hang on boot when built from source and wrong image message when using the version from rom-o-matic. I had to revert to netboot-0.9.8 which also failed to compile and then to 0.8.1 which worked as binary and could be compiled after some debugging. Comments are welcome, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 17:56:10 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 13:56:10 -0400 Subject: can't exec /bin/login Message-ID: <1097344570.9826.3.camel@localhost> Something happened this morning and now I can't login to my Gentoo Linux laptop. I guess that it is a PATH problem. The machine boots to a login prompt, but when I type a user name the system sits for a while and then re-outputs the login prompt. The following message is logged: tty1: can't exec /bin/login: No such file or directory I booted the system using a boot disk and confirmed that /bin/login exists. I was unable to chroot as I got a message that the kernel version on the boot disk was too low. Any ideas? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 18:04:06 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:04:06 -0400 Subject: can't exec /bin/login -FIXED In-Reply-To: <1097344570.9826.3.camel@localhost> References: <1097344570.9826.3.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1097345046.10099.5.camel@localhost> Guess /bin/login was corrupted. I copied the file from the boot CD and everything is golden On Sat, 2004-10-09 at 13:56, Noah John Gellner wrote: > Something happened this morning and now I can't login to my Gentoo Linux > laptop. I guess that it is a PATH problem. The machine boots to a login > prompt, but when I type a user name the system sits for a while and then > re-outputs the login prompt. The following message is logged: > tty1: can't exec /bin/login: No such file or directory > > I booted the system using a boot disk and confirmed that /bin/login > exists. I was unable to chroot as I got a message that the kernel > version on the boot disk was too low. > > Any ideas? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From francis.shim-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 9 18:33:22 2004 From: francis.shim-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Francis K Shim) Date: Sat, 09 Oct 2004 14:33:22 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041008215349.GA16027-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1097346803.8785.1.camel@sol800.cawthra.com> How about find . -name *.jpg -exec convert {} -resize 425 {} \; Regards, Frank On Fri, 2004-10-08 at 17:53 -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified > directory tree. I figured something like: > > find . -name *.jpg > > in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, > but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do > this: > > convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME > > Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. > Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 10 01:52:03 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2004 21:52:03 -0400 Subject: xrandr capabilities and hardware ? Message-ID: <20041010015203.GA9520@m450> On my 5-year-old Dell, /proc/pci reports the video card as... VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc 3D Rage Pro AGP 1X/2X (rev 92). Master Capable. Latency=66. Min Gnt=8. Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xf5000000 [0xf5ffffff]. I/O at 0x9000 [0x90ff]. Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xf4100000 [0xf4100fff]. The monitor is a NEC MultiSync95. I'm running CRUX linux ( webpage at http://crux.nu ) which is quite up to date and has xrandr. All that xrandr can do on my setup is resize the the image. This is better than {CTRL-ALT-GREYPLUS} and {CTRL-ALT-GREYMINUS} because both the physical *AND* the logical screensize get resized. xrandr is also supposed to be able rotate the image, which would be usefull for some websites which seem to think that they're newspapers. That ability does not exist on my system. Not that it matters; picking up the 19" beast of a CRT and putting it on its side would mean risking a hernia each time. One of these days, I'm looking forward to getting an LCD display that can be rotated 90 degrees. Is anyone aware whether image-rotation is limited to LCD displays, or whether it's a a function of your video card? -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 02:12:16 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 10 Oct 2004 22:12:16 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <20041009050415.C0FD54605-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20041009050415.C0FD54605@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org writes: > e) [not really related to the others] According to whois, > tlug.org is held by an "Adrian Buss" of Kemptville. > I'm not at all sure how that weighs in. My understanding [from someone that knows Adrian], is that he's offered to 'hand over' tlug.org a couple [or more] years ago. It just seems that no one has taken him up on the offer. > I am certainly aware that there are a number of people that don't > particularly get along with Drew. That merely establishes that there > could be some "opposition," but not that there's any real would-be > alternative organization lurking in the wings. Well, now it's just getting downright provocative. I may pay my $10 or whatever it is to join just to watch this show. PS - Can Thamer join or is there something in the by-laws about him :) We may as well go for a trifecta. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 03:10:16 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:10:16 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto Message-ID: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> I have attached information on Penguin Day Toronto. This event will be of interest for anyone curious about the intersection of open source software and civil society organizations. I think that it will be an excellent opportunity to share technical knowledge and to learn about new ways for open source software to make a positive impact. **The migration begins ... Saturday, November 20th 2004** Penguin Day Toronto links non-profits leaders, activists and socially responsible techies for a day of question-asking, knowledge-sharing and networking about the potential of Free and Open Source Software (F/OSS) for non-profit organizations. Whether you're looking for software that can change the world or just want to find a way to get rid of all those nasty viruses, Penguin Day will expand your knowledge of how F/OSS applications can help non-profits. It will also provide you with a chance to help refine the vision and vocabulary which are guiding the civil society + free software movement that is emerging all around the world. ** Who should come to Penguin Day? You don't have to be a geek to take part in Penguin Day! Penguin Day is designed for anyone interested in the question of 'how can Free and Open Source Software help?' Past Penguin Days have included: - People from non-profits who are wondering about the potential of F/OSS for their organizations - Developers and implementers who want to find out how they can use their skills to help non-profits - Social entreprenuers intrigued by the way F/OSS strikes a balance between business saavy and community values - Free software activists who want to share their enthusiaism with others - Funders and others that support non-profits who are wondering what all the fuss is about The result: a lively, educational and catalytic conversation that leaves everyone buzzing ... and that almost always catalyzes an aftermath of concrete projects, ideas and offers of support. * What will we talk about? Like other Penguin Days, the Toronto conference will use a dialogue oriented approach to inspire non-profits and developers to dig into the questions and issues that interest them most. Current topics under consideration include: - Intro to FOSS for NGOs: why it matters and what it can do - Helping techies talk to non-techies - How you can help out with FOSS projects - Talking tech to non-techies: how to help - Political convergence: connecting the free software movement with other social movements - Open source usability - Cyber security for non-techies, and NGO admins - A consulation - Participatory culture - Public licenses and the arts in Canada - Free software and social enterprise: is there a connection? Penguin Day will also host Toronto's first Speed Geek -- a fast-paced, energizing, hilarious presentation of free and open source software tools that NGOs can use in their day to day work. The SpeedGeek will include hands on demos of applications like: CivicSpace online campaign tools, CoopTools decision making system, ActionApps web site management tools and desktop Linux. * How can I join the migration? Penguin Day is not like a typical workshop -- it is about getting immersed, involved and inspired. If you want to get involved by just showing up, please sign up for our announcements newsletter by going to this page: http://penguinday.ca/subscribe People on this newsletter list will be informed once the online registrations have been set up and will also receive regular updates as the program emerges. Beyond showing up, there are a number of other ways to get involved in Penguin Day. If you'd like to: - ... share a Free / Open Source Software application or story with others, please consider signing up for our SpeedGeek event. Mail to: speedgeek-6Ibnxu0LzB9ilYSbzjW5Xw at public.gmane.org - ... propose a workshop, we want to hear it. Mail to: workshop-6Ibnxu0LzB+Smzr/n3d+5w at public.gmane.org - ... just like to help out, you can volunteer by mailing to: volunteers-6Ibnxu0LzB+Smzr/n3d+5w at public.gmane.org Of course, we are also looking for sponsors who can help out with cash or stuff to make the event happen. If you are able to help with sponsorship, write to sponsors-6Ibnxu0LzB9ilYSbzjW5Xw at public.gmane.org * Where and when Penguin Day Toronto will be happening on Saturday November 20, 2004 between 9:30 and 4:30. It will be held at the 215 Centre for Social Innovation, which is on Spadina Avenue just north of Queen Street. The address is 215 Spadina, Suite 120. See you at Penguin Day! ** CHECK OUT: http://toronto.penguinday.ca ** ** AND, PLEASE FORWARD THIS MESSAGE TO YOUR FRIENDS** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 03:15:54 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:15:54 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: References: <20041009050415.C0FD54605@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20041011031554.4C74F4658@cbbrowne.com> > cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org writes: > > e) [not really related to the others] According to whois, > > tlug.org is held by an "Adrian Buss" of Kemptville. > > I'm not at all sure how that weighs in. > > My understanding [from someone that knows Adrian], is that he's > offered to 'hand over' tlug.org a couple [or more] years ago. It just > seems that no one has taken him up on the offer. If there can't "legally" be an organization in Toronto called TLUG, then it's somewhat irrelevant. > > I am certainly aware that there are a number of people that don't > > particularly get along with Drew. That merely establishes that there > > could be some "opposition," but not that there's any real would-be > > alternative organization lurking in the wings. > > Well, now it's just getting downright provocative. I may pay my $10 > or whatever it is to join just to watch this show. > > PS - Can Thamer join or is there something in the by-laws about him :) > We may as well go for a trifecta. I'm not aware of any "anti-Thamer" clause. It makes no sense to try to "legislate" things like that. Any time people _can't_ come together in good will, the simplest answer is generally to not bother trying to come together. Any time people can't get along, they might as well stay apart. For there to be some "constructive" opposition that has some different notion of the right shape of how to lead local efforts by those interested in Linux could be a good thing. But the sort of opposition that amounts to a return to the "days of flame" seems pretty much like seeding the ground with salt and kerosene and then throwing in a match. The likelihood of anything useful surviving that is minimal, and it would be unlikely reflect well on whatever troublemakers were involved in such seeding. -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "gmail.com") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html I always try to do things in chronological order. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 03:24:19 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:24:19 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <20041011031554.4C74F4658-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20041009050415.C0FD54605@cbbrowne.com> <20041011031554.4C74F4658@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <1097465059.558.4.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2004-10-10 at 23:15 -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org writes: > > > e) [not really related to the others] According to whois, > > > tlug.org is held by an "Adrian Buss" of Kemptville. > > > I'm not at all sure how that weighs in. > > > > My understanding [from someone that knows Adrian], is that he's > > offered to 'hand over' tlug.org a couple [or more] years ago. It just > > seems that no one has taken him up on the offer. > > If there can't "legally" be an organization in Toronto called TLUG, then > it's somewhat irrelevant. I am pretty sure that you can call the organization TLUG, you just can't incorporate it as such. A business does not have be known by the name it is incorporated under. That is my understanding at least. Are the incorporation documents available for review? I would be interested in reading them. Good effort on getting it done. Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 03:33:45 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 23:33:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: <20041011031554.4C74F4658-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20041011031554.4C74F4658@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 10 Oct 2004 cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > My understanding [from someone that knows Adrian], is that he's > > offered to 'hand over' tlug.org a couple [or more] years ago. It just > > seems that no one has taken him up on the offer. > > If there can't "legally" be an organization in Toronto called TLUG, then > it's somewhat irrelevant. Not really. Organizations, like people, can be known by names which are not their full legal names. For example, the corporation which owns hp.com is only informally known as HP; that is not their full legal name (even disregarding various recent corporate upheavals). There *is* an organization in Toronto known as TLUG, and it makes sense for it to have tlug.org, even if the name on its incorporation papers is somewhat different due to legal snags. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 05:34:50 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 01:34:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Talk - October 12, 2004 Message-ID: Date: October 12, 2004 Time: 7:30pm Location: Galbraith Building, U of T For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ Room: GB244 Speaker: Madison Kelly Topic: Backup Software Details: Faced with the need to find a reliable backup system for use in a business environment and not finding any of the existing systems suitable Madison built her own. Madison will cover some of the technical aspects of building the software including the need to rescan the SCSI bus manually and how she made the program stateful using a stateless web interface and not using anything that required special client side software or applets. Next Talk: The following TLUG meeting will be held on the Nov 9, 2004. George Fiala will cover methods to assist in getting a good Linux job. Rob TLUG Talks maintainer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 11:37:46 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:37:46 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Oct 10, 2004, at 11:10 PM, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I have attached information on Penguin Day Toronto. This event will be > of interest for anyone curious about the intersection of open source > software and civil society organizations. This looks like a wonderful idea. In my (informal) experience it's very easy to find "geeks" who are interested in non-profits, while close to impossible to find people within non-profits who are willing to consider technology in any way beyond the superficial (e.g. How to get the best MS discounts). I will be extremely interested in seeing how you break through that barrier. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 11:40:15 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 07:40:15 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <416A711F.7000500@rogers.com> Noah John Gellner wrote: > See you at Penguin Day! Do we have to wear a Tux? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 12:12:53 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:53 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> The driving force behind Penguin Days are the non-profits. Furthermore, the format of the event has been designed so as to facilitate high level dialog between technologists and non-profits. This will be the first PD in Canada, but the events have been successful down south. The strength of the event is that it facilitates a shared discussion allowing technologists and non-profits to communicate at a deeper level. On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 07:37 -0400, phil wrote: > This looks like a wonderful idea. In my (informal) experience it's > very easy to find "geeks" who are interested in non-profits, while > close to impossible to find people within non-profits who are willing > to consider technology in any way beyond the superficial (e.g. How to > get the best MS discounts). > > I will be extremely interested in seeing how you break through that > barrier. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 14:17:57 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 Oct 2004 10:17:57 -0400 Subject: TLUG Inc? Membership Dues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Henry Spencer writes: > There *is* an organization in Toronto known as TLUG, and it makes sense > for it to have tlug.org, even if the name on its incorporation papers is > somewhat different due to legal snags. I should also point out that toronto.linux.ca and tlug.linux.ca still point to tlug.ss.org. tlug.org would be much less typing, though. -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 15:19:31 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 11:19:31 -0400 Subject: tomorrows talk Message-ID: <416AA483.2080402@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am indeed presenting tomorrow and I would like to revise somewhat what will be covered. First though, I will need an overhead projector to connect to my laptop. Would anyone be able to bring one tomorrow? It will make the presentation far more interesting if I can show the program in use. Originally I had planned the talk to be more technical (and it still will be) however I want to place more of an emphisis on what it is and how it works. I have covered it before so I will briefly describe it now. It is an open-source web-based backup program that uses primarily USB2/Firewire external hard drives to store backed-up data. It can simulatenously span multiple source and destination drives itelligently. Perhaps most importantly, it has been designed to be easy to use. With so many non-techies switching to Linux there was a need for a simple program that would let average people grab an inexpensive external drive and be able to backup their important data easily. TLE-BU, the open-source backup program I will be presenting, fits this role. Underneath it's easy to use exterior is a program that can scale up to complex servers using many, many drives and large data sets while still being just as easy to use. It has an archival component witha built-in search engine that makes finding and recovering data from a drive in a large store of other drives quick and easy. look forward to seeing you all out tomorrow! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 20:28:41 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:28:41 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine Message-ID: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Hello, This is a newbie question. I have a windows XP desktop with a DeskJet 932C printer attached to it. I also have a laptop running Mandrake 9.2. Both computers are attached to a Linksys router. I want to print from applications on my laptop to the printer on this network. I know I'm supposed to use Samba somehow. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to configure it. Where do I find the 'SMB server host'? I'm very confused. I'm not sure what questions I should be asking. Please help! Regards, Brad Fonseca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 20:42:13 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 16:42:13 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1097527333.13565.5.camel@localhost> The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think that a print server costs around $50. On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 16:28 -0400, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hello, > > This is a newbie question. I have a windows XP desktop with a DeskJet 932C > printer attached to it. I also have a laptop running Mandrake 9.2. Both > computers are attached to a Linksys router. I want to print from > applications on my laptop to the printer on this network. I know I'm > supposed to use Samba somehow. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to configure > it. Where do I find the 'SMB server host'? > > I'm very confused. I'm not sure what questions I should be asking. Please > help! > > Regards, > > Brad Fonseca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:02:37 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <1097527333.13565.5.camel@localhost> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1097527333.13565.5.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not spend more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My machines are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? Brad On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner wrote: > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the > printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have > a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. > That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think > that a print server costs around $50. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:06:59 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:06:59 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1097527333.13565.5.camel@localhost> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: you can see the shares by doing: smbclient -L I don't know Mandrake, but if there's a printer setup utility, it will likely have an option for setting up a SMB printer. Just point it to your windows machine and you should be able to print as normal. On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 > From: Brad Fonseca > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows machine > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not spend > more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My machines > are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? > > Brad > > On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the > > printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have > > a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. > > That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think > > that a print server costs around $50. > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:11:45 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:11:45 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1097527333.13565.5.camel@localhost> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1097529105.13565.9.camel@localhost> What Desktop or Window manager are you using and what distribution are you using? Version may matter as Samba tools vary. On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 17:02 -0400, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not spend > more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My machines > are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:14:12 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:14:12 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <31f5947d0410111414648364ce@mail.gmail.com> I guess us young people aren't invited? I saw the link and signed up. I don't know if I will attend or not. - Adam Raymond On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 08:12:53 -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > The driving force behind Penguin Days are the non-profits. Furthermore, > the format of the event has been designed so as to facilitate high level > dialog between technologists and non-profits. This will be the first PD > in Canada, but the events have been successful down south. > > The strength of the event is that it facilitates a shared discussion > allowing technologists and non-profits to communicate at a deeper level. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:22:21 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:22:21 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <31f5947d0410111414648364ce-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> <31f5947d0410111414648364ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097529741.13565.12.camel@localhost> Young people are certainly invited. Is there something on the site which suggests otherwise? If so, let me know and I will see what I can do to remedy the situation. Cheers, Noah On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 17:14 -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > I guess us young people aren't invited? I saw the link and signed up. > I don't know if I will attend or not. > > - Adam Raymond > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:26:47 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:26:47 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1097529741.13565.12.camel@localhost> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> <31f5947d0410111414648364ce@mail.gmail.com> <1097529741.13565.12.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <31f5947d04101114262ddbe632@mail.gmail.com> Well, I'd love to be involved some how. But I'm not sure how I can contribute. - Adam Raymond On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:22:21 -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > Young people are certainly invited. Is there something on the site which > suggests otherwise? If so, let me know and I will see what I can do to > remedy the situation. > Cheers, > Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:33:19 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:33:19 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <1097529105.13565.9.camel@localhost> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1097529105.13565.9.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <200410111733.19136.linuxbrad@rogers.com> I'm using KDE 3.? I think. I'm using Mandrake 9.2 Brad On October 11, 2004 17:11, Noah John Gellner wrote: > What Desktop or Window manager are you using and what distribution are > you using? Version may matter as Samba tools vary. > > On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 17:02 -0400, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not > > spend more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My > > machines are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:34:48 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:34:48 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Hi, Tried that and: [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ smbclient -L msbrad added interface ip=192.168.1.102 bcast=192.168.1.255 nmask=255.255.255.0 Connection to msbrad failed [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ Any ideas? Brad On October 11, 2004 17:06, Jing Su wrote: > you can see the shares by doing: > > smbclient -L > > I don't know Mandrake, but if there's a printer setup utility, it will > likely have an option for setting up a SMB printer. Just point it to your > windows machine and you should be able to print as normal. > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 > > From: Brad Fonseca > > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows machine > > > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not > > spend more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My > > machines are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? > > > > Brad > > > > On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the > > > printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have > > > a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. > > > That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think > > > that a print server costs around $50. > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:40:09 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:40:09 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: Check your windows firewall settings. Do you have it set to accept (ie provide an exception for) "file and printer sharing"? Did it prompt for a password when you tried to connect? or did it just fail without input? On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:34:48 -0400 > From: Brad Fonseca > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows machine > > Hi, > > Tried that and: > > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ smbclient -L msbrad > added interface ip=192.168.1.102 bcast=192.168.1.255 nmask=255.255.255.0 > Connection to msbrad failed > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ > > Any ideas? > > Brad > > On October 11, 2004 17:06, Jing Su wrote: > > you can see the shares by doing: > > > > smbclient -L > > > > I don't know Mandrake, but if there's a printer setup utility, it will > > likely have an option for setting up a SMB printer. Just point it to your > > windows machine and you should be able to print as normal. > > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 > > > From: Brad Fonseca > > > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows machine > > > > > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not > > > spend more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My > > > machines are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > > > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the > > > > printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have > > > > a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. > > > > That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think > > > > that a print server costs around $50. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:42:58 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:42:58 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04101114262ddbe632-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> <31f5947d0410111414648364ce@mail.gmail.com> <1097529741.13565.12.camel@localhost> <31f5947d04101114262ddbe632@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097530978.13565.22.camel@localhost> The event is structured to be non-hierarchical. The idea is to create an environment that allows technical and non-technical participants communicate their interests. The not-for-profit people are interested to learn more about open source both what it means as a philosophy and what it can do practically. Consequently, even if someone is fairly new in the technology world, they will still have a lot to contribute. Furthermore, being able to share ways in which you have used open source tools to solve problems, or conceive of using the tools to solve problems is valuable. As a technologist the event allows more understanding about how people are using tech and what they are looking for. I have spent the last year or so focusing on using Linux and open source tools for day to day tasks. I enjoy meeting and overcoming challenges when there is a particular problem for which a solution isn't immediately obvious. The problem for me is that on my own I have pretty much identified all the potential issues that I face. One advantage of working with other people to address their problems is that it deepens your own understanding about what the technology can and can't do. On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 17:26 -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > Well, I'd love to be involved some how. But I'm not sure how I can contribute. > > - Adam Raymond -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:44:38 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:44:38 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1097531078.13565.24.camel@localhost> I don't use KDE, but I am pretty sure that there is a setup printer wizard-type thing which should have an option to connect to a samba printer. On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 17:34 -0400, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hi, > > Tried that and: > > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ smbclient -L msbrad > added interface ip=192.168.1.102 bcast=192.168.1.255 nmask=255.255.255.0 > Connection to msbrad failed > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ > > Any ideas? > > Brad > > On October 11, 2004 17:06, Jing Su wrote: > > you can see the shares by doing: > > > > smbclient -L > > > > I don't know Mandrake, but if there's a printer setup utility, it will > > likely have an option for setting up a SMB printer. Just point it to your > > windows machine and you should be able to print as normal. > > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 > > > From: Brad Fonseca > > > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows machine > > > > > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not > > > spend more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My > > > machines are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > > > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the > > > > printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have > > > > a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. > > > > That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think > > > > that a print server costs around $50. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:48:08 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:48:08 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1097530978.13565.22.camel@localhost> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> <31f5947d0410111414648364ce@mail.gmail.com> <1097529741.13565.12.camel@localhost> <31f5947d04101114262ddbe632@mail.gmail.com> <1097530978.13565.22.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <31f5947d04101114482e9e2bf5@mail.gmail.com> That was really inspirational, thanks allot. Ill try and make an effort to come out. - Adam Raymond On Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:42:58 -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > The event is structured to be non-hierarchical. The idea is to create an > environment that allows technical and non-technical participants > communicate their interests. The not-for-profit people are interested to > learn more about open source both what it means as a philosophy and what > it can do practically. Consequently, even if someone is fairly new in > the technology world, they will still have a lot to contribute. > Furthermore, being able to share ways in which you have used open source > tools to solve problems, or conceive of using the tools to solve > problems is valuable. As a technologist the event allows more > understanding about how people are using tech and what they are looking > for. > > I have spent the last year or so focusing on using Linux and open source > tools for day to day tasks. I enjoy meeting and overcoming challenges > when there is a particular problem for which a solution isn't > immediately obvious. The problem for me is that on my own I have pretty > much identified all the potential issues that I face. One advantage of > working with other people to address their problems is that it deepens > your own understanding about what the technology can and can't do. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 21:52:47 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:52:47 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1097527333.13565.5.camel@localhost> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1097531567.5817.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Just run printerdrake. If you have setup the windows machine to share the printer, printerdrake will be able to look for it. Austin On Mon, 2004-10-11 at 17:06 -0400, Jing Su wrote: > you can see the shares by doing: > > smbclient -L > > I don't know Mandrake, but if there's a printer setup utility, it will > likely have an option for setting up a SMB printer. Just point it to your > windows machine and you should be able to print as normal. > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 > > From: Brad Fonseca > > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows machine > > > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not spend > > more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. My machines > > are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba share"? > > > > Brad > > > > On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the > > > printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have > > > a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. > > > That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think > > > that a print server costs around $50. > > > > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 22:04:26 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 15:04:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041011220426.2517.qmail@web50908.mail.yahoo.com> Brad, I am doing the same thing as you. In order to detect Windows machine from Samba, you can do it on the Samba machine: smbclient -L localhost If you can not see your windows machine, try ping his ip address to see if any cable and network adapter problem. If you can ping it but your Samba cannot see it, have you make a root user for your Samba? smbpasswd -a root If you log on your Windows with a log name such as Administrator, you need create a corresponding Samba user: smbpasswd -a administrator And you also need go to /etc/smb.conf to make Samba browse your local network, say, 192.168.0 Also you need to create a user "root" in your Windows to connect Samba's configuration interface, http://:901 I have got in here. What ever I do I cannot make the printer move. If you got cups running in your Linux, you can go http://:631 to add a printer but I can never get a printer move. There are 3 way to make Linux work Windows printing: SMB, WINDOWS UNIX PRINTING SERVER and Windows' HTTP. Cups only deal with the last 2 services. I have another Windows machine, I even cannot get another Windows to use this Windows printer. There is a file called LMLOSTS in \winnt\system32\dirvers\etc\, you can set up ip address and host names for Windows to find the names. But I still did not get it work. If you worked it out, please let me know . Thanks all! Frank Peng. --- Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hi, > > Tried that and: > > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ smbclient -L msbrad > added interface ip=192.168.1.102 bcast=192.168.1.255 > nmask=255.255.255.0 > Connection to msbrad failed > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ > > Any ideas? > > Brad > > On October 11, 2004 17:06, Jing Su wrote: > > you can see the shares by doing: > > > > smbclient -L > > > > I don't know Mandrake, but if there's a printer > setup utility, it will > > likely have an option for setting up a SMB > printer. Just point it to your > > windows machine and you should be able to print as > normal. > > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 > > > From: Brad Fonseca > > > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows > machine > > > > > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I > know. I'd rather not > > > spend more money now on additional hardware so a > print server is out. My > > > machines are up all the time anyway. How do I > "browse [my] Samba share"? > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner > wrote: > > > > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. > You will need to share the > > > > printer using windows then use Linux to browse > your Samba share. I have > > > > a similar setup but I found it much less > hassle to use a print server. > > > > That way I don't need to have both machines > turned on to print. I think > > > > that a print server costs around $50. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 22:15:07 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 18:15:07 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200410111734.48896.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410111815.07713.linuxbrad@rogers.com> UPDATE: I turned off windows' firewall and tried the following: [root at localhost linuxbrad]# smbclient -L 192.16x.x.xx0 added interface ip=192.16x.x.xx2 bcast=192.168.x.255 nmask=255.255.255.0 session request to 192.16x.x.xx0 failed (Called name not present) session request to 192 failed (Called name not present) Password: ****** Domain=[MSHOME] OS=[Windows 5.1] Server=[Windows 2000 LAN Manager] Sharename Type Comment --------- ---- ------- Funny stuff Disk My Documents Disk IPC$ IPC Remote IPC print$ Disk Printer Drivers SharedDocs Disk My Pictures Disk brad_deskjet Printer hp deskjet 930c series printer1 Printer HP DeskJet 930C/932C/935C Server Comment --------- ------- MSBRAD Brad's Puter Workgroup Master --------- ------- MSHOME MSBRAD [root at localhost linuxbrad]# I replaced the ip addresses for security purposes. I still can't print. Brad On October 11, 2004 17:34, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hi, > > Tried that and: > > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ smbclient -L msbrad > added interface ip=192.168.1.102 bcast=192.168.1.255 nmask=255.255.255.0 > Connection to msbrad failed > [linuxbrad at localhost linuxbrad]$ > > Any ideas? > > Brad > > On October 11, 2004 17:06, Jing Su wrote: > > you can see the shares by doing: > > > > smbclient -L > > > > I don't know Mandrake, but if there's a printer setup utility, it will > > likely have an option for setting up a SMB printer. Just point it to > > your windows machine and you should be able to print as normal. > > > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2004, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > > Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 17:02:37 -0400 > > > From: Brad Fonseca > > > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: printing to my windows machine > > > > > > Okay, windows is sharing the printer as far as I know. I'd rather not > > > spend more money now on additional hardware so a print server is out. > > > My machines are up all the time anyway. How do I "browse [my] Samba > > > share"? > > > > > > Brad > > > > > > On October 11, 2004 16:42, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > > > The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share > > > > the printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. > > > > I have a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print > > > > server. That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to > > > > print. I think that a print server costs around $50. > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 11 23:18:46 2004 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 19:18:46 -0400 Subject: Embedded Linux Message-ID: <20041011191846.A24787@ee.ryerson.ca> ST Participates in China's Open-Source Computing Initiative STMicroelectronics plans to co-develop hardware/software platforms based on Linux for use in servers, PCs and mobile terminals through the initiative. http://email.electronicnews.com/cgi-bin2/DM/y/ei1G0GGpOI0DbD0CJnH0AF -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 01:18:25 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:18:25 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <1097527333.13565.5.camel@localhost> <200410111702.37719.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <416B30E1.3070003@rogers.com> Brad Fonseca wrote: >>The windows machine is the Samba (SMB) host. You will need to share the >>printer using windows then use Linux to browse your Samba share. I have >>a similar setup but I found it much less hassle to use a print server. >>That way I don't need to have both machines turned on to print. I think >>that a print server costs around $50. If you're using CUPS to set up your printers. When you get to device type, you can select "Windows Printer via Samba" and then for device URL, you use something like smb://workgroup/server/sharename, to connect to the desired printer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 01:26:35 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2004 21:26:35 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <20041011220426.2517.qmail-nSz8KN0mzF2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041011220426.2517.qmail@web50908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <416B32CB.3050402@rogers.com> Frank Peng wrote: > There are 3 way to make Linux work Windows printing: > SMB, WINDOWS UNIX PRINTING SERVER and Windows' HTTP. > Cups only deal with the last 2 services. Cups can work with SMB (Samba) printers. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 16:34:37 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:34:37 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041008215349.GA16027-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20041012163437.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 05:53:49PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > What I want to do is resize all of the JPGs in a long and ramified > directory tree. I figured something like: > > find . -name *.jpg > > in the top of the tree would do the trick for hitting all of the jpgs, > but I don't know how to take the output of the above and have it do > this: > > convert $FILENAME -resize 425 $FILENAME > > Basically, I don't know bash very well and need help with the syntax. > Thanks. Assuming concert allows you to reuse the same filename without any problems (most programs do not) then somtehing like this should work: find . -name \*.jpg -exec convert "{}" -resize 425 "{}" \; Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 16:36:58 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:36:58 -0400 Subject: Running a command on all file occurences in a directory tree In-Reply-To: <20041009002529.GA16533-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041008215349.GA16027@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <200410081913.48038.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20041009002529.GA16533@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20041012163658.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 08, 2004 at 08:25:29PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > Thanks for all of the help so far. I have control over the files in > question, and they are all named in a sane manner. I am looking to > overwrite the files with their smaller counterparts, so replacing > $FILENAME with $FILENAME is appropriate in this case, but thanks for > checking. > > Why would you escape the asterisk in the find command, by the way? So the shell doesn't expand *.jpg to whatever jpg files are in your current working dir before executing the command. Also be sure you make a backup first, and remeber that just because you want to replace the file doesn't mean that's what convert does. Some programs may open the output before they open the input (not smart maybe) and would hence delete the input before even reading it causing the file to be deleted. Hopefully convert is smarter than that. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 16:40:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 12:40:50 -0400 Subject: printing to my windows machine In-Reply-To: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410111628.41122.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041012164050.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 11, 2004 at 04:28:41PM -0400, Brad Fonseca wrote: > This is a newbie question. I have a windows XP desktop with a DeskJet 932C > printer attached to it. I also have a laptop running Mandrake 9.2. Both > computers are attached to a Linksys router. I want to print from > applications on my laptop to the printer on this network. I know I'm > supposed to use Samba somehow. I'm not sure how I'm supposed to configure > it. Where do I find the 'SMB server host'? > > I'm very confused. I'm not sure what questions I should be asking. Please > help! Well with CUPS it is easy to use a windows printer since as part of the printer setup in CUPS it asks for the port, and SMB: is one of the options, allowing you to simply tell cups that the printer is on the windows machine (smb://windowshostnameORip/printersharename). Then you pick the right driver for the printer and you are set. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 19:52:14 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 15:52:14 -0400 Subject: If you are coming to this evenings talk, please print this out Message-ID: <416C35EE.4010408@alteeve.com> Hi all, It is looking like I won't be able to get a projector tonight. I am going to try to get copies of the presentation run off in time but I may not get enough. If you can please download a copy and print it off for yourself before you come tonight. Thanks! OpenOffice Format: http://thelinuxexperience.com/whitepapers/TLUG-Talk_TLE-BU_2004-10-12.sxw Adobe Acrobat PDF: http://thelinuxexperience.com/whitepapers/TLUG-Talk_TLE-BU_2004-10-12.pdf Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 20:39:36 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 16:39:36 -0400 Subject: Not a Worry, I got prints done in time! (was:If you are coming to this evenings talk, please print this out) In-Reply-To: <416C35EE.4010408-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <416C35EE.4010408@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <416C4108.9040208@alteeve.com> Hi all, I found a print house that could run off the copies in time and I will have 40 copies of the handout available this evening. If anyone could still swing a projector though, it would make the presentation much more interactive. Look forward to seeing everyone tonight! Madison Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > It is looking like I won't be able to get a projector tonight. I am > going to try to get copies of the presentation run off in time but I may > not get enough. If you can please download a copy and print it off for > yourself before you come tonight. Thanks! > > OpenOffice Format: > http://thelinuxexperience.com/whitepapers/TLUG-Talk_TLE-BU_2004-10-12.sxw > Adobe Acrobat PDF: > http://thelinuxexperience.com/whitepapers/TLUG-Talk_TLE-BU_2004-10-12.pdf > > Madison > -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 12 21:03:37 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 17:03:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Not a Worry, I got prints done in time! (was:If you are coming to this evenings talk, please print this out) In-Reply-To: <416C4108.9040208-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <416C35EE.4010408@alteeve.com> <416C4108.9040208@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 12 Oct 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I found a print house that could run off the copies in time and I > will have 40 copies of the handout available this evening. If anyone > could still swing a projector though, it would make the presentation > much more interactive. Look forward to seeing everyone tonight! If and when TLUG does get incorporated it might be nice if we can provide the speaker with a few $ to cover any incidental costs related to doing the talk. Alternatively, we could offer discounts on the following year's membership. Do enough talks and you might get a year's membership for free! (Just a suggestion :) I can't make it tonight unfortunately. My defence is that the reason I won't be present is Linux related :) Drew should be present to do the intro. Have fun everyone. Rob TLUG Talks Maintainer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 01:07:33 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 18:07:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: I got CUPS printing to Windows via LPD and SMB, but PDF Virtual printer not working. In-Reply-To: <415C30B7.9010703-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <415C30B7.9010703@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20041013010733.59207.qmail@web50907.mail.yahoo.com> In case some guys are still struggling to get Windows print for Linux, here are some tricks I learnt: Some older CUPS do not have SMB support, you have to make it this way: ln -s `which smbspool` /usr/lib/cups/backend/smb as root. The character ` is not the single quote sign. It is the one at left upper corner under ~. Not the one with ". Another thing is: chmod a+rw /var/spool/samba Third thing is, when you add a printer from cups via 631 port, you need add an user name password to use windows printer. Like this: smb://Administrator:@windows_computer_name/printer_name For CUPS with LPD to Windows, you need turn on the Windows' "UNIX printing" service first. Then add the printer from CUPS 631: LPD://WINDOWS_COMPUTER_NAME/PRINTER_NAME. Now I am trying to install a virtual PDF printer on the linux box. My device URL is cups-pdf:/ This looks not right. Any one has success please drop a couple of lines. Thanks a lot! Frank Peng. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone. http://mobile.yahoo.com/maildemo -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 03:04:42 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 23:04:42 -0400 Subject: Someone mentioned about a perl group Message-ID: <416C9B4A.2020105@alteeve.com> Hi all, In my tired fogged mind I managed to forget both who mentioned about a perl group this evening and which group that was. Someone mentioned that they thought the presentation I gave tonight might be interesting to folks over there and I had planned to look up info on the group but unfortunately my mind has failed me. Can someone fill me in? Thanks! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 11:42:05 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 07:42:05 -0400 Subject: Someone mentioned about a perl group In-Reply-To: <416C9B4A.2020105-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <416C9B4A.2020105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20041013114205.70A43400F@cbbrowne.com> > Hi all, > > In my tired fogged mind I managed to forget both who mentioned about > a perl group this evening and which group that was. Someone mentioned > that they thought the presentation I gave tonight might be interesting > to folks over there and I had planned to look up info on the group but > unfortunately my mind has failed me. Can someone fill me in? Thanks! They were presumably thinking of the Toronto Perl Mongers -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','gmail.com'). http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/spreadsheets.html If you find this set of fortunes entertaining, and would like a copy, see -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 13:22:23 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 09:22:23 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <1097496773.1592.14.camel@localhost> Message-ID: On Oct 11, 2004, at 8:12 AM, Noah John Gellner wrote: > The driving force behind Penguin Days are the non-profits. That's great to hear. What organizations are involved from the non-profit sector? (I read the "The Cabal" list, but apart from Greenpeace it seemed to be technology-oriented.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 08:25:57 2004 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 04:25:57 -0400 Subject: Someone mentioned about a perl group In-Reply-To: <416C9B4A.2020105-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <416C9B4A.2020105@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20041013082557.GC35690@shell.vex.net> On Tue, Oct 12, 2004 at 11:04:42PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > In my tired fogged mind I managed to forget both who mentioned about > a perl group this evening and which group that was. Someone mentioned > that they thought the presentation I gave tonight might be interesting > to folks over there and I had planned to look up info on the group but > unfortunately my mind has failed me. Can someone fill me in? Thanks! > That would most likely be the Toronto Perl Mongers, see http://to.pm.org/ . Sorry I wasn't at the meeting (will need to find day job). -- Steve Harvey -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 15:36:49 2004 From: patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Patrick) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:36:49 -0400 Subject: Very basic request In-Reply-To: <4165AAF2.3060204-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200410071447.48644.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> <4165AAF2.3060204@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200410131136.49033.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> Just to say thank you to all those who kindly replied to my "very basic request" message. This is a great group. Patrick Bloomfield -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 15:05:23 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:05:23 -0300 Subject: How to Compile C++ programs Message-ID: <1097679923.32125.11.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Hello, I am trying to do some C++ programing on Linux, unfortunately I am having trouble compiling my "hello world" scripts. AFAIK, I just have to type g++ fill.cc and it will compile...but I don't seem to have g++ installed. I thought it is part of the gcc package but I already have that installed. I am running Mandrake 10.1 and I like to just use urpmi to install any programs. If I type urpmi -a g++ I get the message "no package named g++" and if I try urpmi -a gcc, I get the message "everything is installed". I just got the book Essential C++ and I want to learn it over the weekend...but it will be difficult if I can't get my code to run :). What am I missing? Also, does anyone know some good Linux Programming books for C++ and/or C? Also, what about a good editor. I am thinking along the lines of Visual C++ for Windows. I plan do to most of it just in vi, but just in case I get into more complicated projects it might be nice to have a program to help with that. Thanks for the help. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 16:14:36 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:14:36 -0400 Subject: How to Compile C++ programs In-Reply-To: <1097679923.32125.11.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1097679923.32125.11.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:05:23 -0300, Devin Whalen wrote: > Also, does anyone know some good Linux Programming books for C++ and/or > C? Also, what about a good editor. I am thinking along the lines of > Visual C++ for Windows. I plan do to most of it just in vi, but just in The closest analogue to the VC IDE in Linux would be KDevelop (part of KDE). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 04:06:33 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 00:06:33 -0400 Subject: VPN and IPtables In-Reply-To: <1095277988.41489da482808-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <41488D74.20107@vm-resources.com> <20040915192811.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277076.41489a145667b@www.almatau.com> <20040915194416.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1095277988.41489da482808@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <416CA9C9.9080300@almatau.com> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting Lennart Sorensen : > > >>On Wed, Sep 15, 2004 at 03:37:56PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: >> >>>Experimenting with my SonicWall VPN client, I allowed everything to/from >> >>my >> >>>internal Windows machine. It didn't help. Windows firewall shows packets >>>between ports 500 (I disabled this one too for tests), iptables logger >> >>shows >> >>>activity as well. There is a traffic, but no VPN connection. >> >>Allow all port udp 500 and protocol 50/51 (normally 50) traffic and >>forward them to the inside machine. Then see if it works. >> > > I'll try that. Haven't touched protocol 50/51 yet, maybe that's the key. The problem has been fixed. My home subnet had the same address as one of VPNed office subnets, so SonicWall was just confused where to send packets. By the way, there is no need to create forwarding rules for protocols 50/51/etc., it's done by the kernel automagically. Thanks again, Ilya. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 15:45:10 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 11:45:10 -0400 Subject: Java httpd.conf parser? Message-ID: <20041013164509.E97B66DAAE@lethe.ss.org> Does anybody know if there's an httpd.conf parser (Apache config) for Java? I know there's a Perl module. Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 17:17:02 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:17:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Java httpd.conf parser? In-Reply-To: <20041013164509.E97B66DAAE-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041013164509.E97B66DAAE@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Michael Laccetti wrote: > Does anybody know if there's an httpd.conf parser (Apache config) for Java? > I know there's a Perl module. Is there any reason you want to use Java to parse the httpd.conf file? The httpd program gives you it's interpretation of the config file when you run it like so: /usr/sbin/httpd -f /path/to/conf/httpd.conf -t -D DUMP_VHOSTS Of course, you may want to get more information than that from the config file. Alex Beamish -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 18:05:43 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:05:43 -0400 Subject: How to Compile C++ programs In-Reply-To: <1097679923.32125.11.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1097679923.32125.11.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <20041013180543.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 12:05:23PM -0300, Devin Whalen wrote: > I am trying to do some C++ programing on Linux, unfortunately I am > having trouble compiling my "hello world" scripts. AFAIK, I just have > to type g++ fill.cc and it will compile...but I don't seem to have g++ > installed. I thought it is part of the gcc package but I already have > that installed. I am running Mandrake 10.1 and I like to just use urpmi > to install any programs. If I type urpmi -a g++ I get the message "no > package named g++" and if I try urpmi -a gcc, I get the message > "everything is installed". I just got the book Essential C++ and I want > to learn it over the weekend...but it will be difficult if I can't get > my code to run :). What am I missing? > > Also, does anyone know some good Linux Programming books for C++ and/or > C? Also, what about a good editor. I am thinking along the lines of > Visual C++ for Windows. I plan do to most of it just in vi, but just in > case I get into more complicated projects it might be nice to have a > program to help with that. > > Thanks for the help. Well on debian gcc comes from a package like gcc-2.95 or gcc-3.3 and g++ comes from g++-2.95 or g++-3.3 or similar. They are often packaged seperately due to the enormous size of c++ support and that gcc works fine without g++. I have no idea what name mandrake would have given the package. Could be gcc-g++ or gcc-c++ or g++ or g++-version or anything else along those lines. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 18:05:31 2004 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:05:31 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> Presently I finally got Mandrake 10.0 to load and stay stable. I told a friend that later this week I would set up a fax server for him on a spare PC that he has. What are your favorite fax programs and what is it that you like about them? Where can I download them? RPM's or ISO's are ok. I hope I do not get hung up with all kinds of dependencies a package may demand. I am assuming that there should be some really good free programs out there although my friend, John, just might go for a small cost if there is a compelling reason to use a package with some particularly good advantages. The first priority is for a broadcast fax server but I may also set up a fax client to take care of weeding through all the garbage faxes that come in instead of his printing everyone. I am open to private conversations or emails also. Bill Mudry (905) 822-6088 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 18:25:21 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:25:21 -0400 Subject: Java httpd.conf parser? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041013182546.B134E6DA9C@lethe.ss.org> Not so much get info, but modify it. If there is code out there that does that, I'm open to using it. Otherwise, I'll just have to write it. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sent: October 13, 2004 1:17 PM To: TLUG Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Java httpd.conf parser? On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Michael Laccetti wrote: > Does anybody know if there's an httpd.conf parser (Apache config) for Java? > I know there's a Perl module. Is there any reason you want to use Java to parse the httpd.conf file? The httpd program gives you it's interpretation of the config file when you run it like so: /usr/sbin/httpd -f /path/to/conf/httpd.conf -t -D DUMP_VHOSTS Of course, you may want to get more information than that from the config file. Alex Beamish -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 17:24:06 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:24:06 -0300 Subject: How to Compile C++ programs In-Reply-To: <20041013180543.GJ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1097679923.32125.11.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <20041013180543.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1097688246.32125.41.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> On Wed, 2004-10-13 at 14:05 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 12:05:23PM -0300, Devin Whalen wrote: > > I am trying to do some C++ programing on Linux, unfortunately I am > > having trouble compiling my "hello world" scripts. AFAIK, I just have > > to type g++ fill.cc and it will compile...but I don't seem to have g++ > > installed. I thought it is part of the gcc package but I already have > > that installed. I am running Mandrake 10.1 and I like to just use urpmi > > to install any programs. If I type urpmi -a g++ I get the message "no > > package named g++" and if I try urpmi -a gcc, I get the message > > "everything is installed". I just got the book Essential C++ and I want > > to learn it over the weekend...but it will be difficult if I can't get > > my code to run :). What am I missing? > > > > Also, does anyone know some good Linux Programming books for C++ and/or > > C? Also, what about a good editor. I am thinking along the lines of > > Visual C++ for Windows. I plan do to most of it just in vi, but just in > > case I get into more complicated projects it might be nice to have a > > program to help with that. > > > > Thanks for the help. > > Well on debian gcc comes from a package like gcc-2.95 or gcc-3.3 and g++ > comes from g++-2.95 or g++-3.3 or similar. They are often packaged > seperately due to the enormous size of c++ support and that gcc works > fine without g++. > > I have no idea what name mandrake would have given the package. Could > be gcc-g++ or gcc-c++ or g++ or g++-version or anything else along those > lines. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- Thank you Lennart! It was gcc-g++. So all I had to do was urpmi -a gcc-g++ and everything installed fine and now I can compile my little C+ + programs. Now I can start learning. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 18:40:26 2004 From: dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 14:40:26 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0-9yrvbIq3RigsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> Message-ID: <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> We use hylafax for all our offices. It will run on a basic pentium and never fails. We send over 2000 pages / month and receive about 600 / month. It can be installed as a RPM or you can install it on a Debian box using apt. It works best using ISA modems (not winmodems). Client software for the pc's can be Cypheus (fancy) or Whfc (windows for hylafax client) a really basic interface. For the linux box use the KTcl package for ease and simplicity of operation. Add a scanner for tif production and you are really in business to start blasting faxes all over the universe. Dave Bill Mudry wrote: > Presently I finally got Mandrake 10.0 to load and stay stable. I told > a friend that later this > week I would set up a fax server for him on a spare PC that he has. > What are your favorite > fax programs and what is it that you like about them? Where can I > download them? RPM's > or ISO's are ok. I hope I do not get hung up with all kinds of > dependencies a package may > demand. > > I am assuming that there should be some really good free programs out > there although my > friend, John, just might go for a small cost if there is a compelling > reason to use a package > with some particularly good advantages. The first priority is for a > broadcast fax server but I > may also set up a fax client to take care of weeding through all the > garbage faxes that come > in instead of his printing everyone. > > I am open to private conversations or emails also. > > Bill Mudry > (905) 822-6088 > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 20:09:16 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 16:09:16 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <416D769A.9060908-VBJBm02B4Ag@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> Message-ID: <416D8B6C.1050408@sympatico.ca> dave morton wrote: > > Add a scanner for tif production and you are really in business to start > blasting faxes all over the universe. But that's the problem. As soon as your fax number gets known, people start blasting you faxes you don't want. And that costs toner and paper. If you need to send faxes, but dont want to mess with hardware, I used to use Protus . For a varying fee schedule, they'll give you a number that will redirect faxes to your inbox as multipage TIFFs, and allow you to send faxes by e-mail. It was one of those "it just works" solutions. I gave it up a few months back, after I realised I had neither sent nor received a fax for a year. Typically, though, I got a request for my fax number two days after I dropped the account. If you need to send a fax for free, and don't mind sending a cover page with an ad on it, and can live with patchy coverage, try TPC: Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 22:42:45 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:42:45 -0400 Subject: Java httpd.conf parser? In-Reply-To: <20041013182546.B134E6DA9C-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041013182546.B134E6DA9C@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <416DAF65.5010309@istop.com> Michael Laccetti wrote: > Not so much get info, but modify it. If there is code out there that does > that, I'm open to using it. Otherwise, I'll just have to write it. The easiest way to modify httpd.conf is to use your favorite text editor. Of cource, you must know what you are doing. But without that knowledge you can not write a "java" parser :) zb. -- SoftQuake Open Source Business Solutions http://www.softquake.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 00:17:29 2004 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:17:29 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <416D8B6C.1050408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <416D8B6C.1050408@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013195729.02deae30@mail.eol.ca> At 04:09 PM 10/13/04 -0400, you wrote: >dave morton wrote: >>Add a scanner for tif production and you are really in business to start >>blasting faxes all over the universe. > >But that's the problem. As soon as your fax number gets known, people >start blasting you faxes you don't want. And that costs toner and paper. That is the largest reason (and wisely so) that my friend wants to go from dedicated fax machine to software fax --- so he can carouse through the incoming faxes and electronically erase them. Mooocho paper saved :-). >If you need to send faxes, but dont want to mess with hardware, I used to >use Protus . For a varying fee schedule, I sent a message to John to let him know about this option to faxing. Thanks for the mention. >they'll give you a number that will redirect faxes to your inbox as >multipage TIFFs, and allow you to send faxes by e-mail. It was one of >those "it just works" solutions. > >I gave it up a few months back, after I realised I had neither sent nor >received a fax for a year. Typically, though, I got a request for my fax >number two days after I dropped the account. Figures :-). Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it, how long fax will still stay prominent in the business world. It still has its advantages for ease of use for none computer types. >If you need to send a fax for free, and don't mind sending a cover page >with an ad on it, and can live with patchy coverage, try TPC: > That is nice to know --- especially, for instance, for someone who is between jobs. It costs at least a buck a page at the local store nearby and two pages for resume and another for a covering letter can add up pretty fast. this is just onoe more reason I thought I should start playing around with some fax packages again --- even just for myself. I am in that category for now . Companies still ask to "fax a resume" often not knowing how practical this is for an individual. As for friend John, I also am wanting to get at least one broadcast fax server going for him to market placing ads in a series of website he has. Used PC's are so inexpensive now that is can be an inexpensive way to advertise as long as it is done within regulations and courteously (Business to Business). That brings me round to another intriguing question. There are some places you can get really cheap long distance charges by using your PC into a company that offers access into their VOIP network. Are there any networks with local access that a person can sign up with that will let you use your own server to plug into their VOIP system (ie. FOIP, fax over IP)? That could significantly reduce long distance charges outside of a local calling area. > Stewart > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 00:27:22 2004 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 20:27:22 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <416D769A.9060908-VBJBm02B4Ag@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013202002.02df7930@mail.eol.ca> At 02:40 PM 10/13/04 -0400, you wrote: >We use hylafax for all our offices. It will run on a basic pentium and >never fails. We send over 2000 pages / month and receive about 600 / >month. It can be installed as a RPM or you can install it on a Debian box >using apt. I will try a few different packages just to get to know them and compare. Your word on Hylafax in a business environment is encouraging. I dl'd all 7 disks for Debian, too ---- just haven't burned disks yet so I may get a Debian box going too. >It works best using ISA modems (not winmodems). Client software for the >pc's can be Cypheus (fancy) or Whfc (windows for hylafax client) a really What a dumb idea it was to realize a high speed application in more software than hardware anyway. I had a bad experience buying a PC a few years ago with one and wouldn't use a Winmodem ever -- unless you paid me --- then I would go out and buy a hardware modem and use it anyway! I will look into Cypheus, Whfc and Ktcl, too. >basic interface. For the linux box use the KTcl package for ease and >simplicity of operation. > >Add a scanner for tif production and you are really in business to start >blasting faxes all over the universe. > >Dave Thanks for the suggestions. Bill -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 01:15:57 2004 From: michael-1DHYbOjWH/jDO7Nk1fN4cQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Laccetti) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:15:57 -0400 Subject: Java httpd.conf parser? In-Reply-To: <416DAF65.5010309-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <416DAF65.5010309@istop.com> Message-ID: <20041014011605.6EDC16DAB6@lethe.ss.org> Oh, I know that. I was just looking for some pre-existing code. Ah well, doesn't seem to exist. -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Zbigniew Koziol Sent: October 13, 2004 6:43 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Java httpd.conf parser? Michael Laccetti wrote: > Not so much get info, but modify it. If there is code out there that > does that, I'm open to using it. Otherwise, I'll just have to write it. The easiest way to modify httpd.conf is to use your favorite text editor. Of cource, you must know what you are doing. But without that knowledge you can not write a "java" parser :) zb. -- SoftQuake Open Source Business Solutions http://www.softquake.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 13 16:25:04 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:25:04 -0400 Subject: How to Compile C++ programs In-Reply-To: <1097679923.32125.11.camel-UO0ojj0JzWvjwg9tCphvaczI0hKmmZiEmjCW/i4Lttk@public.gmane.org> References: <1097679923.32125.11.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: > I am trying to do some C++ programing on Linux, unfortunately I am > having trouble compiling my "hello world" scripts. AFAIK, I just have > to type g++ fill.cc and it will compile...but I don't seem to have g++ > installed. I thought it is part of the gcc package but I already have > that installed. I am running Mandrake 10.1 and I like to just use urpmi > to install any programs. If I type urpmi -a g++ I get the message "no > package named g++" and if I try urpmi -a gcc, I get the message > "everything is installed". I just got the book Essential C++ and I want > to learn it over the weekend...but it will be difficult if I can't get > my code to run :). What am I missing? have you tried just doing 'gcc fill.cc'? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 01:32:46 2004 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) ) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:32:46 -0400 Subject: Apache - mod_ssl question Message-ID: <200410132132.46143.marc@lijour.net> Hi I have installed a couple of webapps (php for the most part) that require authentication. I call the experts (you) in order to know: - what is the best authentication (it is not a FBI site - I just need fair protection from sniffing around for example) - I made the sites run under ssl before. But now that is broken (and I don't know why). Do you have an idea about making the site run under ssl (it works for some but not for all). I run apache2: apache2-mod_ssl-2.0.50-4mdk apache2-2.0.50-5mdk I run a couple of virtual-host that are name-based (one IP for all of them). (I also know that ssl is not working for all hosts, I just need one of them to work witth ssl). I have this in my scripts (that did work not so long ago): inside a Directory directive: ## To force https connection # # SSLRequireSSL # SSLRequire %{SSL_CIPHER_USEKEYSIZE} >= 128 # Thanks for the pointers. Marc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 01:40:01 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:40:01 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013195729.02deae30-9yrvbIq3RigsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013195729.02deae30@mail.eol.ca> Message-ID: <416DD8F1.6050109@sympatico.ca> Bill Mudry wrote: > > Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it, how long fax will still stay > prominent in the business world. It's pretty much dead in my industry. We get about one non-junk fax a week. > That is nice to know --- especially, for instance, for someone who is > between jobs. Your local Employment Resource Centre (run by HRDC) will fax cover letters and resumes for free. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 01:53:11 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:53:11 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <416DD8F1.6050109-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013195729.02deae30@mail.eol.ca> <416DD8F1.6050109@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <416DDC07.4020203@rogers.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Bill Mudry wrote: > >> >> Kind of makes you wonder, doesn't it, how long fax will still stay >> prominent in the business world. > > > It's pretty much dead in my industry. We get about one non-junk fax a week. > >> That is nice to know --- especially, for instance, for someone who is >> between jobs. > > > Your local Employment Resource Centre (run by HRDC) will fax cover > letters and resumes for free. However, most of the employers want e-mail or web site applications these days. Fax is rarely used for that now. I used to use a fax program (Faxworks on OS/2) quite a lot, but it's been a while since I've had to send or receive a fax. In fact, the last time I did either, was to help someone test their fax modem. Nowadays, I just use e-mail. If someone want's a copy of a paper document, I just scan and send the image as a pdf attachment (I've sent a couple of dozen recently). In fact, the KDE Kprinter can print to pdf and e-mail in one operation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 11:00:42 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:00:42 +0800 Subject: Linux evangelization Message-ID: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi, Ill be doing some Linux evangelization on business applications... most of them are using M$ my topics.. mail ( qmail and sendmail ) since dont have much time to talk database postgres and mysql ?? maybe someone here can give me inputs.. presentations.. etc.. to add to my current notes.. TIA, -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 12:12:37 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:12:37 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network Message-ID: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I have been scouring the net unsuccessfully for a tutorial on accessing a WEP-secured wireless network. I have seen a bunch of utilities for cracking them, but I am a legitimate user, and as such I have the essid and the key. I just don't know how to connect. I hate having to boot into Windoze for its networking abilities -- it's just wrong! Under Windoze I have configured a profile for the network, and once the wireless card has established a handshake I have to go to a web page (I'm automatically redirected) where I enter a personal password. This is bound to be familiar to someone - can I get a pointer or two? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 12:27:32 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:27:32 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <20041014121237.GA2927-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1097756852.5637.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 08:12 -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I have been scouring the net unsuccessfully for a tutorial on accessing > a WEP-secured wireless network. I have seen a bunch of utilities for > cracking them, but I am a legitimate user, and as such I have the essid > and the key. I just don't know how to connect. I hate having to boot > into Windoze for its networking abilities -- it's just wrong! You sure you mean "WEP"? WEP is the old style wireless encryption... quite crackable. To access it on linux, just use: # iwconfig eth1 essid enc Note that with wep, the password is almost always 10 hex characters. If you want to have your system "remember" this access point, things get trickier. There are several backends to do this (waproamd, wlandetect), and a few frontends (drakroam, tkwifi, etc.). Now if what you're really talking about is WPA, that's a whole different ballgame. WPA is a newer form of wireless security, mainly to do with authentication, not necessarily encryption. There are utilities like xsupplicant to access WPA enabled access points, but it's not something I'm familiar with, and from what I've seen, a LOT more complicated than WEP. > Under Windoze I have configured a profile for the network, and once the > wireless card has established a handshake I have to go to a web page > (I'm automatically redirected) where I enter a personal password. This > is bound to be familiar to someone - can I get a pointer or two? You're now speaking of authentication, not encryption. I have to do the same at school. It works flawlessly with linux. In fact, it's all web-based, so it shouldn't matter if you use windows or linux at all. Just iwconfig to the network essid, run dhclient, and open your web browser. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 12:40:48 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:40:48 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <1097756852.5637.14.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1097756852.5637.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1097757649.22853.9.camel@neko.afraid.org> If you are specifically talking about accessing U of T's wireless network, there is a trick you might find helpful. When I enter the key as text it doesn't work. So I enter it as: 55:54:6f:72:6f:6e:31:68:6f:6d:65 Depending on the distro you are using, there is probably a wrapper that aids in wireless configuration. On Gentoo I use the wireless tools. Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 12:51:03 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 08:51:03 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <1097757649.22853.9.camel-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1097756852.5637.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097757649.22853.9.camel@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <1097758263.5637.16.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 08:40 -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > If you are specifically talking about accessing U of T's wireless > network, there is a trick you might find helpful. When I enter the key > as text it doesn't work. So I enter it as: > 55:54:6f:72:6f:6e:31:68:6f:6d:65 If you're talking about iwconfig, to enter a key as text rather than hex, prepend it with "s:". Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 13:10:41 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:10:41 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <1097758263.5637.16.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1097756852.5637.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097757649.22853.9.camel@neko.afraid.org> <1097758263.5637.16.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1097759441.2773.309.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 08:51, Austin wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 08:40 -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > If you are specifically talking about accessing U of T's wireless > > network, there is a trick you might find helpful. When I enter the key > > as text it doesn't work. So I enter it as: > > 55:54:6f:72:6f:6e:31:68:6f:6d:65 > > If you're talking about iwconfig, to enter a key as text rather than > hex, prepend it with "s:". > > Austin Sweet, a few new tricks to try at the Big U. Still haven't managed to get online either - I get the connection but like William can't authenticate. -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 13:21:29 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:21:29 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <1097759441.2773.309.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1097756852.5637.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097757649.22853.9.camel@neko.afraid.org> <1097758263.5637.16.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097759441.2773.309.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1097760089.22853.28.camel@neko.afraid.org> I am able to successfully connect but strangely not everywhere. For example, the Bora Laskin law library is a no connect zone, but right outside is fine. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 13:30:49 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:30:49 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <1097760089.22853.28.camel-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1097756852.5637.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097757649.22853.9.camel@neko.afraid.org> <1097758263.5637.16.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097759441.2773.309.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1097760089.22853.28.camel@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <1097760649.5096.4.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 09:21 -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I am able to successfully connect but strangely not everywhere. Up here, both the York and Seneca wireless networks work flawlessly, even in buildings like TEL which have both available. Neither use WEP though, just web-based login. Maximum session time is 2 hours though, so extremely slow non-restartable downloads could be a problem. > For > example, the Bora Laskin law library is a no connect zone, but right > outside is fine. Hope to try it out in said library next year if the forces of the universe align is such a magical and delicate interplay that I get admitted. :-) Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 13:31:01 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:31:01 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <20041014121237.GA2927-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > I have been scouring the net unsuccessfully for a tutorial on accessing > a WEP-secured wireless network. I have seen a bunch of utilities for > cracking them, but I am a legitimate user, and as such I have the essid > and the key. I just don't know how to connect. I hate having to boot > into Windoze for its networking abilities -- it's just wrong! > > Under Windoze I have configured a profile for the network, and once the > wireless card has established a handshake I have to go to a web page > (I'm automatically redirected) where I enter a personal password. This > is bound to be familiar to someone - can I get a pointer or two? > Thanks. It's generally not difficult to connect using WEP in Linux. I've done it with both Red Hat & SuSE. What problems are you having? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 13:36:38 2004 From: dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (dave morton) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:36:38 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <416DD8F1.6050109-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013195729.02deae30@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20041013195729.02deae30@mail.eol.ca> <416DD8F1.6050109@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.1.20041014091926.009ecde0@pop3.ilap.com> In my business, we estimate to have saved in paper (from sending or receiving) over 75000 pages in the past 3 years. Add to that the cost of toner, fax machine replacement/repair for that kind of volume and the savings are staggeriing. We scan everything in, or print it through a 'tiff ' driver when graphics are required, directly off the desktop (never producing any paper at all). Hylafax can convert ASCII, pdf, postscript and a few other formats into a faxable/emailable format. As for the demise of the fax machine, I wish it were true, but alas , most of the hospitals, insurance companies, banks and law firms in Toronto still don't know what to do with a tiff attachment if it is emailed. The desire to handle paper is still very entrenched. We get about 10-15 junk faxes / day, but it doesn't matter because you simply hit the 'delete' button. Hylafax can be set up for 'send' environments only, or for 'receive' only. It also allows you to send the fax forward as a fax or email; whatever your choice. As for 'fiddling' with a hylafax server, we don't. It's Linux, rock solid, and never goes down...ever!! Dave -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 13:47:22 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 09:47:22 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <416E7F95.6070902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <416E836A.2090303@detachednetworks.ca> James Knott wrote: > William O'Higgins wrote: > >> I have been scouring the net unsuccessfully for a tutorial on accessing >> a WEP-secured wireless network. I have seen a bunch of utilities for >> cracking them, but I am a legitimate user, and as such I have the essid >> and the key. I just don't know how to connect. I hate having to boot >> into Windoze for its networking abilities -- it's just wrong! >> >> Under Windoze I have configured a profile for the network, and once the >> wireless card has established a handshake I have to go to a web page >> (I'm automatically redirected) where I enter a personal password. This >> is bound to be familiar to someone - can I get a pointer or two? >> Thanks. > > > It's generally not difficult to connect using WEP in Linux. I've done > it with both Red Hat & SuSE. What problems are you having? > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml kwifimanager allows for eaily reconfiguring the interface on the fly. It also keeps up to 4 saved configurations with a default configuration that will load on startup. http://kwifimanager.sourceforge.net -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 14:22:17 2004 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:22:17 -0400 Subject: Java httpd.conf parser? In-Reply-To: <20041014011605.6EDC16DAB6-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <416DAF65.5010309@istop.com> <20041014011605.6EDC16DAB6@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20041014142217.GF23291@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 09:15:57PM -0400 or thereabouts, Michael Laccetti wrote: > Oh, I know that. I was just looking for some pre-existing code. Ah well, > doesn't seem to exist. Webmin does a good job of allowing one to edit the httpd.conf via the Apache module. -- S.Allen -- (Chief Scarecrow Repairer) ----------------------------------------------- Thursday Oct 14 2004 10:20:01 AM EDT ----------------------------------------------- Who is John Galt? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 14:33:42 2004 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 10:33:42 -0400 Subject: How to Compile C++ programs In-Reply-To: References: <1097679923.32125.11.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> Message-ID: <20041014103342.28dee53a.jvetterli@linux.ca> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:25:04 -0400 Jing Su wrote: > have you tried just doing 'gcc fill.cc'? This won't work: gcc will recognize the .cc extension as indicating a C++ file, but for the linking stage you need to use g++ so that the C++ support libraries are included in the link. Otherwise, you wind up with a lot of "undefined reference" errors. JV -- Sylpheed-WARNING **: can't open signature file: /home/jvetterli/.signature -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 15:14:19 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 14 Oct 2004 11:14:19 -0400 Subject: Linux evangelization In-Reply-To: <200410141900.42993.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: JM writes: > Ill be doing some Linux evangelization on business applications... > most of them are using M$ > my topics.. > mail ( qmail and sendmail ) since dont have much time > to talk Err, look at postfix and consider dumping sendmail. Just because it's ubiquitous and RH pumps it because of their business relationship with Sendmail Inc. is no reason to continue using it. > database postgres and mysql > ?? > > maybe someone here can give me inputs.. presentations.. etc.. to add > to my > current notes.. OpenOffice.org jabber and IM? spam solutions mailing lists who's your audience? more desktop stuff like MUAs, browsers and ??? -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 15:43:20 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 11:43:20 -0400 Subject: help with a sandboxed apache Message-ID: Hello All, On my machine, I have an Apache server running on the standard port 80, which I use actively. However, I'd like to run another sandboxed Apache, for some experimental work. I would like to run it on another port, separate from the actively used one. I'm launching the second apache server by using: apache2ctl -f /home/foo/alternateapache.conf Inside the alternateapache.conf file, I have the Listen directive set to a different port. Here's my problem: The second server starts up and serves static pages, but the CGI handler is dying. It's trying to bind to a socket file that's already in use by the primary apache server. Here's the error message I get: [Thu Oct 14 10:58:19 2004] [error] (13)Permission denied: Couldn't unlink unix domain socket /var/run/cgisock [Thu Oct 14 10:58:19 2004] [error] (98)Address already in use: Couldn't bind unix domain socket /var/run/cgisock Is there a way I can get the second apache server to try a different location for its CGI socket file? Thanks, -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 18:24:06 2004 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:24:06 +0300 Subject: Apache - mod_ssl question Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 19:01:26 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 15:01:26 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <416E836A.2090303-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> <416E836A.2090303@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <416ECD06.9050300@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > kwifimanager allows for eaily reconfiguring the interface on the fly. It > also keeps up to 4 saved configurations with a default configuration > that will load on startup. > > http://kwifimanager.sourceforge.net I don't have a problem connecting to a wlan, but I do have a problem with kwifimanager. As installed in SuSE, it's broken. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 20:32:42 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:32:42 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <416ECD06.9050300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> <416E836A.2090303@detachednetworks.ca> <416ECD06.9050300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <416EE26A.8050700@detachednetworks.ca> James Knott wrote: > Jason Shein wrote: > >> kwifimanager allows for eaily reconfiguring the interface on the fly. >> It also keeps up to 4 saved configurations with a default >> configuration that will load on startup. >> >> http://kwifimanager.sourceforge.net > > > I don't have a problem connecting to a wlan, but I do have a problem > with kwifimanager. As installed in SuSE, it's broken. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml I am using SuSE 9.1 on a toshiba satellite 1900, with an orinoco gold card. works fine for me using the default rpm. -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 20:53:53 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:53:53 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <416EE26A.8050700-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> <416E836A.2090303@detachednetworks.ca> <416ECD06.9050300@rogers.com> <416EE26A.8050700@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <416EE761.6090201@rogers.com> Jason Shein wrote: > James Knott wrote: >> I don't have a problem connecting to a wlan, but I do have a problem >> with kwifimanager. As installed in SuSE, it's broken. > > > I am using SuSE 9.1 on a toshiba satellite 1900, with an orinoco gold > card. works fine for me using the default rpm. > About all it's good for on my Thinkpad, is as a signal strength monitor. Kwifimanager doesn't appear to save any settings I put into it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 21:03:30 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:03:30 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider Message-ID: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> I am ditching the MSN loving Sympatico for istop. I have been talking to bell about changes to the service and found myself wondering "is there a better provider of residential / business telephone service ?" As I was only asking myself, I got no good answer, but perhaps a more telephonically inclined TLUG lister might know ?? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 21:24:07 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 14 Oct 2004 17:24:07 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097787810.2772.14.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: David J Patrick writes: > I am ditching the MSN loving Sympatico for istop. I have been talking to > bell about changes to the service and found myself wondering "is there a > better provider of residential / business telephone service ?" As I was > only asking myself, I got no good answer, but perhaps a more > telephonically inclined TLUG lister might know ?? Well, if you have a DSL connection already, check out: http://www.vonage.ca Starnix is not going to have 'landlines' in another week. All VOIP. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 21:27:43 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 14 Oct 2004 17:27:43 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097787810.2772.14.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <873c0ht2gg.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> David J Patrick writes: > I am ditching the MSN loving Sympatico for istop. I have been talking to > bell about changes to the service and found myself wondering "is there a > better provider of residential / business telephone service ?" As I was > only asking myself, I got no good answer, but perhaps a more > telephonically inclined TLUG lister might know ?? > Personally I got rid of my landline ages ago and use a Fido cell phone with the pay-as-you-go card refill option. As a not very heavy telephone user, this suits me just fine. It would probably not be ideal for a family situation, but it is great for a single person who has a broadband connection to the internet. Several of my acquaintances use the same strategy. The economics are great too. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 21:34:52 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:34:52 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097787810.2772.14.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 17:03 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I am ditching the MSN loving Sympatico for istop. I have been talking to > bell about changes to the service and found myself wondering "is there a > better provider of residential / business telephone service ?" As I was > only asking myself, I got no good answer, but perhaps a more > telephonically inclined TLUG lister might know ?? For the last 5 years I've had nothing but broadband internet and a cell phone. As long as you don't use much long distance, it's barely more than land line, and far more convenient. Only PITA is forgetting to recharge the phone, and the fact that most cell phones only last 2 or 3 years. Never missed the land line. Oh except for once, a credit card company refused my application because I didn't have a land line (weird). Their loss... I just went with someone else. Vive la free market. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 21:35:44 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:35:44 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1097789743.2772.20.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 17:24, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Well, if you have a DSL connection already, check out: > > http://www.vonage.ca Interesting but confusing; if the service requires DSL, and DSL requires a landline, don't you already have telephone service ?? For long distance savings maybe, but what are they actually selling, VOIP ? Why would I pay for that when open source implimentations abound ? > > Starnix is not going to have 'landlines' in another week. All VOIP. > is not ?? no landlines ? in a month ? year ? ever ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 21:45:53 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:45:53 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <873c0ht2gg.fsf-GtzO1qr/b/653Rd6M7GqU0CW56haWIzXIrC0AzgbhvsKu2YovVVDERgSKFK9O5hcLMHrShElKjA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <873c0ht2gg.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041014214553.GA2531@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 05:27:43PM -0400, SlackRat wrote: > David J Patrick writes: > > > I am ditching the MSN loving Sympatico for istop. I have been talking to > > bell about changes to the service and found myself wondering "is there a > > better provider of residential / business telephone service ?" As I was > > only asking myself, I got no good answer, but perhaps a more > > telephonically inclined TLUG lister might know ?? > > > > Personally I got rid of my landline ages ago and use a Fido cell phone with > the pay-as-you-go card refill option. > > As a not very heavy telephone user, this suits me just fine. > > It would probably not be ideal for a family situation, but it is great for a > single person who has a broadband connection to the internet. > > Several of my acquaintances use the same strategy. The economics are great too. So, are you saying it's cheaper than copper wire? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 21:56:36 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:56:36 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097789692.5532.2.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On October 14, 2004 05:34 pm, Austin wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 17:03 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > I am ditching the MSN loving Sympatico for istop. I have been talking to > > bell about changes to the service and found myself wondering "is there a > > better provider of residential / business telephone service ?" As I was > > only asking myself, I got no good answer, but perhaps a more > > telephonically inclined TLUG lister might know ?? > > For the last 5 years I've had nothing but broadband internet and a cell > phone. As long as you don't use much long distance, it's barely more > than land line, and far more convenient. Only PITA is forgetting to > recharge the phone, and the fact that most cell phones only last 2 or 3 > years. > > Never missed the land line. Oh except for once, a credit card company > refused my application because I didn't have a land line (weird). Their > loss... I just went with someone else. Vive la free market. what do you do for bandwith though? is rogers the only option for non-landline people? 'cause i really don't like them. -- Ah, the pitter-patter of little feet in combat boots... SHUT UP. - Mal, Firefly, "War Stories" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 22:12:57 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:12:57 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1097791977.5532.8.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 17:56 -0400, daniel wrote: > what do you do for bandwith though? is rogers the only option for > non-landline people? 'cause i really don't like them. I'm fortunate enough to live in a townhouse owned by the university, so there's 10 MB lines in every room (not to mention the 100 MB line in my office). :-) Although, I don't even know why I bother paying the $25 per month for access, since there are at least six open wireless networks beaming through my apartment right now. But that's even more off-topic. Rogers... completely mixed reviews. A friend of mine has three hookups from them in Toronto (one at her place, one at her parents', one at her old apartment) and all three were shady. Signal dropouts, crazy speed changes, poor service. Then again, my brother in Ottawa says his has been flawless for two years. Dunno if it's regional, or just luck. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 22:14:57 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:14:57 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <1097792097.5532.11.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 17:56 -0400, daniel wrote: > what do you do for bandwith though? is rogers the only option for > non-landline people? 'cause i really don't like them. By the way, there is unlimited high-speed internet over 1x cellular from Telus (and Bell too, I assume), but it's really really expensive, and I don't think you can detect incoming phone calls. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 22:25:00 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 14 Oct 2004 18:25:00 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097789743.2772.20.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789743.2772.20.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: David J Patrick writes: > > http://www.vonage.ca > > Interesting but confusing; if the service requires DSL, and DSL requires > a landline, don't you already have telephone service ?? For long I've heard of people with DSL on disconnected phone lines. I dunno. Forgot about that ponhe line for DSL thing. You could always go another way for broadband, though. > > Starnix is not going to have 'landlines' in another week. All VOIP. > > is not ?? no landlines ? in a month ? year ? ever ? Well, our last day in our old offices with regular lines is next Friday. After that, it'll be VOIP over a T1 [not our T1, provided by landlord]. -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 23:02:18 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 14 Oct 2004 19:02:18 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <87wtxssy2t.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> daniel writes: > what do you do for bandwith though? is rogers the only option for > non-landline people? 'cause i really don't like them. > Nobody I know likes Rogers, especially with the latest ``improvements'' they have made to their service. Maybe they should quit wasting their energies acquiring sporting facilities and direct their efforts towards improving their broadband service. But like the inveterate gambler said when they told him the Poker Game was rigged, ``But it's the only game in town.........'' -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 23:07:43 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 14 Oct 2004 19:07:43 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097792097.5532.11.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <1097792097.5532.11.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <87sm8gsxts.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Austin writes: > By the way, there is unlimited high-speed internet over 1x cellular from > Telus (and Bell too, I assume), but it's really really expensive, and I > don't think you can detect incoming phone calls. > >From the Telus sign up page: unsupported platform (I'm using FireFox PreRelease 1.0) The wizard cannot continue because you are running an unsupported browser. Supported browser: Microsoft Internet Explorer version 5.5 or later. Please visit http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie to download and install the latest version of Internet Explorer. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 23:30:10 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:30:10 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network - SOLVED In-Reply-To: <1097759441.2773.309.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1097756852.5637.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097757649.22853.9.camel@neko.afraid.org> <1097758263.5637.16.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1097759441.2773.309.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20041014233010.GA4847@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> >> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 08:40 -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: >> > If you are specifically talking about accessing U of T's wireless >> > network, there is a trick you might find helpful. When I enter the key >> > as text it doesn't work. So I enter it as: >> > 55:54:6f:72:6f:6e:31:68:6f:6d:65 That was part of my problem, I knew that iwconfig was looking for the password in that form, but I was unable to determine how I was to translate the password into the above form. How did you get this value? >> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 08:51, Austin wrote: >> If you're talking about iwconfig, to enter a key as text rather than >> hex, prepend it with "s:". I was, and thank you - I never saw this in my examinations of the man page. So, I am now using this: iwconfig eth0 essid enc s: And lo, it works. Similarly to Noah, I note that there are weird consistency problems in different locations around U of T. I am going to examine more carefully, and see if there is a way to identify the problem access points and see if there is an easy fix. Thank you all. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 14 23:49:19 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 19:49:19 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789743.2772.20.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <416F107F.3050509@istop.com> G. Matthew Rice wrote: > David J Patrick writes: > >>> http://www.vonage.ca >> >>Interesting but confusing; if the service requires DSL, and DSL requires >>a landline, don't you already have telephone service ?? For long > > > I've heard of people with DSL on disconnected phone lines. I have been (actually, I am possibly still) in financial diffiulties and my phone has been cut for a day for not paying the bills on time. There was no ADSL as well. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 01:16:25 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:16:25 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097791977.5532.8.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <1097791977.5532.8.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <416F24E9.5090403@rogers.com> Austin wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 17:56 -0400, daniel wrote: > >>what do you do for bandwith though? is rogers the only option for >>non-landline people? 'cause i really don't like them. > > > I'm fortunate enough to live in a townhouse owned by the university, so > there's 10 MB lines in every room (not to mention the 100 MB line in my > office). :-) > > Although, I don't even know why I bother paying the $25 per month for > access, since there are at least six open wireless networks beaming > through my apartment right now. But that's even more off-topic. > > Rogers... completely mixed reviews. A friend of mine has three hookups > from them in Toronto (one at her place, one at her parents', one at her > old apartment) and all three were shady. Signal dropouts, crazy speed > changes, poor service. Then again, my brother in Ottawa says his has > been flawless for two years. Dunno if it's regional, or just luck. I'm on Rogers and the my service tends to be very reliable and with the "Extreme" service, it's also very fast. A couple of days ago, I downloaded a 102 MB file in just over 2 minutes! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 01:17:40 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:17:40 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <1097792097.5532.11.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <1097792097.5532.11.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <416F2534.3030306@rogers.com> Austin wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 17:56 -0400, daniel wrote: > >>what do you do for bandwith though? is rogers the only option for >>non-landline people? 'cause i really don't like them. > > > By the way, there is unlimited high-speed internet over 1x cellular from > Telus (and Bell too, I assume), but it's really really expensive, and I > don't think you can detect incoming phone calls. I think you'll find that "high speed" access is slow, in comparison with ADSL or cable connections. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 01:19:06 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:19:06 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <416F24E9.5090403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097789692.5532.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <200410141756.36320.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <1097791977.5532.8.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <416F24E9.5090403@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1097803145.2810.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Man, though... nothing beats being at U of T and downloading from the York Debian mirror at 8MB/s. 2.5 Gigs in under 20 minutes. Easiest Sarge net-install ever :-) -Leigh (who only gets to use that connection once in a while :-( ) On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 21:16, James Knott wrote: > I'm on Rogers and the my service tends to be very reliable and with the > "Extreme" service, it's also very fast. A couple of days ago, I > downloaded a 102 MB file in just over 2 minutes! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 01:48:51 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:48:51 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone - pots - NOT isp ! In-Reply-To: <1097787810.2772.14.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1097804930.2772.42.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Hilarious how quickly this thread went to ISPs ! Is it not possible, nay common, to get hooked up to the ol' electric telephone through a company other that our very own Ma Bell ? Like Sprint (eeech) or something more paletable/ local ? Anyone tried it ? Know somebody who worked with a guy that has ? Do tell ! thanks, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 01:58:37 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 21:58:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux evangelization In-Reply-To: <200410141900.42993.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <60872.69.70.1.98.1097805517.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Hello, I am new to this Group and to the wonderful world of Linux but have lots of experience in the Unix world and other operating systems and related software. Linux is gaining momentum, slowly but surely, in the business world. It is worth mentioning that many business-class applications and software packages are available on Linux now, including Oracle and many application development tools coming from the big names, who also offer Linux on their boxes (Intel and proprietary architecture). For Unix people who want to get away from proprietary Unix (and costs) Linux is surely the way to go, Windoze is too much a wide gap to go through. Plud you end up in another proprietary environment. Linux is even available on "mainframe" Intel technology offered by Unisys in 32 and 64-bit versions from reputed Linux distributors. Yeah, but what about support? Well, instead of getting "support" from one vendor for a fee you get support from tens of thousands of enthusiasts that are just a keystroke away through internet. How about that for 24x7 support! Happy presentation, Fran?ois Ouellette > Hi, > > Ill be doing some Linux evangelization on business applications... > most of them are using M$ > my topics.. > mail ( qmail and sendmail ) since dont have much time to talk > database postgres and mysql > ?? > > maybe someone here can give me inputs.. presentations.. etc.. to add to > my > current notes.. > > TIA, > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 05:06:13 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:06:13 -0400 Subject: Linux evangelization In-Reply-To: <60872.69.70.1.98.1097805517.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <60872.69.70.1.98.1097805517.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <200410150106.14161.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 14, 2004 09:58 pm, Francois Ouellette wrote: > Well, instead of getting "support" from one vendor for a fee you > get support from tens of thousands of enthusiasts that are just a > keystroke away through internet. How about that for 24x7 support! Very eloquently put. So long as access to the internet is perceived and rewarded as a civil right, this theory works very well - in ways that are non-linear, but more rewarding. I just hope that people/cities/civilizations allow internet access to be a right, and not a privilege. -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 05:31:42 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 01:31:42 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone - pots - NOT isp ! In-Reply-To: <1097804930.2772.42.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097804930.2772.42.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1097818302.5729.2.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-14 at 21:48 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Is it not possible, nay common, to get hooked up to the ol' electric > telephone through a company other that our very own Ma Bell ? > Like Sprint (eeech) or something more paletable/ local ? > Anyone tried it ? Know somebody who worked with a guy that has ? Here at York (45,000 students, 10,000 staff), the entire campus switched to Telus for local phone service including the residences, offices, and payphones. Nobody seemed to even notice, so it must have been quite seamless and satisfactory. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 07:59:37 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:59:37 +0800 Subject: Linux evangelization In-Reply-To: References: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200410151559.37678.jerome@gmanmi.tv> some managers of small businesses.. they are not too techy so i must somehow equate everything to PROFIT.. CASH... INCOME... you know what i mean... can anyone point me to a site that best describes the power of linux business application such as stated below.. or advantages of these over M$. TIA, On Thursday 14 October 2004 23:14, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > JM writes: > > Ill be doing some Linux evangelization on business applications... > > most of them are using M$ > > my topics.. > > mail ( qmail and sendmail ) since dont have much time > > to talk > > Err, look at postfix and consider dumping sendmail. Just because it's > ubiquitous and RH pumps it because of their business relationship with > Sendmail Inc. is no reason to continue using it. > noted... need to revise my slides.. > > database postgres and mysql > > ?? > > > > maybe someone here can give me inputs.. presentations.. etc.. to add > > to my > current notes.. > > OpenOffice.org > jabber and IM? > spam solutions > mailing lists > > who's your audience? more desktop stuff like MUAs, browsers and ??? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 08:04:51 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:04:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <416D8B6C.1050408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <416D8B6C.1050408@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > dave morton wrote: >> >> Add a scanner for tif production and you are really in business to start >> blasting faxes all over the universe. > > But that's the problem. As soon as your fax number gets known, people start > blasting you faxes you don't want. And that costs toner and paper. > > If you need to send faxes, but dont want to mess with hardware, I used > to use Protus . For a varying fee schedule, > they'll give you a number that will redirect faxes to your inbox as > multipage TIFFs, and allow you to send faxes by e-mail. It was one of > those "it just works" solutions. Or www.efax.com which also allows local number and extra value services ($ pay). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 11:02:38 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:02:38 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone - pots - NOT isp ! In-Reply-To: <1097804930.2772.42.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097804930.2772.42.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <416FAE4E.9080502@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > Hilarious how quickly this thread went to ISPs ! > > Is it not possible, nay common, to get hooked up to the ol' electric > telephone through a company other that our very own Ma Bell ? > Like Sprint (eeech) or something more paletable/ local ? > Anyone tried it ? Know somebody who worked with a guy that has ? > Do tell ! > thanks, > djp As far as I know, Bell is currently your only choice. Even if you were to get it from someone else, you'd still have to use Bell wires. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 11:24:56 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:24:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux evangelization In-Reply-To: <200410151559.37678.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <200410151559.37678.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <62070.69.70.1.98.1097839496.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> > some managers of small businesses.. > > they are not too techy so i must somehow equate everything to PROFIT.. > CASH... > INCOME... you know what i mean... > Talk about the cost of ownership of Linux vs. cost of ownership of any other platform! For servers and clients. I just installed SuSE (personal) on a desktop, to get the same set of tools for a MS workstation (i.e. all of the office tools, etc) it would cost over $1500! This one costs $0. It installs in a zip and looks awesome! And does not require a very powerful machine to run, unlike Windoze. Everything boils down to lower costs. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 11:36:10 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:36:10 -0400 Subject: Use Unix.... Message-ID: <004501c4b2ab$2b6975e0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> There is a black Volvo V70 station wagon with the licence plate "USE UNIX" that I regularly see at Queen and Sumach. I have been curious if the owner of that car is one of "our" crowd? I work on Eastern Ave. not far from Queen and River, so will periodically walk along Queen to Yonge, and that car seems to be parked on the south east corner most of the days I pass that intersection... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 13:13:50 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:13:50 -0400 Subject: Linux evangelization In-Reply-To: <62070.69.70.1.98.1097839496.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <200410151559.37678.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <62070.69.70.1.98.1097839496.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20041015131350.GA5279@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 07:24:56AM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > > > some managers of small businesses.. > > > > they are not too techy so i must somehow equate everything to PROFIT.. > > CASH... > > INCOME... you know what i mean... > > > > Talk about the cost of ownership of Linux vs. cost of ownership of any > other platform! For servers and clients. I just installed SuSE (personal) > on a desktop, to get the same set of tools for a MS workstation (i.e. all > of the office tools, etc) it would cost over $1500! This one costs $0. It > installs in a zip and looks awesome! And does not require a very powerful > machine to run, unlike Windoze. Everything boils down to lower costs. Especially if you frame this as "cost of owning Linux vs. the cost of renting proprietary". The rights retained through the license agreement for much proprietary software restricts the amount of ownership you can possibly have. So, include the relative cost of moving to a different system (relicensing effort at a minimum, possibly also there will be surcharges to the original costs) - most businesses at least hope that they will grow. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 12:56:44 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:56:44 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone - pots - NOT isp ! In-Reply-To: <416FAE4E.9080502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097804930.2772.42.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <416FAE4E.9080502@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b204101505563679fb86@mail.gmail.com> I use Sprint Canada for local and long distance. Local service cost is comparable to Bell, and I've noticed no change at all in quality of service. They have a good long distance plan too: $20/month for unlimited calling in North America, any time of day. That means I can count of basically paying a flat rate every month. On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:02:38 -0400, James Knott wrote: > David J Patrick wrote: > > Hilarious how quickly this thread went to ISPs ! > > > > Is it not possible, nay common, to get hooked up to the ol' electric > > telephone through a company other that our very own Ma Bell ? > > Like Sprint (eeech) or something more paletable/ local ? > > Anyone tried it ? Know somebody who worked with a guy that has ? > > Do tell ! > > thanks, > > djp > > As far as I know, Bell is currently your only choice. Even if you were > to get it from someone else, you'd still have to use Bell wires. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 13:27:33 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 06:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 3d printer, PDF virtual printer won't work, please help! In-Reply-To: <415C30B7.9010703-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <415C30B7.9010703@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20041015132733.25193.qmail@web50908.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I installed Samba 3.0.7 and CUPS 1.1.21 and CUPS-PDF1.6.4 on Slackware 8.1. I added 2 printers to CUPS from Win2K. They are working via LPD and SMB. When I added the 3rd printer, a PDF virtual printer, it won't work. I checked the cups-pdf_log. it says "identification string sent". Nothing PDF file created. I checked the cups-pdf.c program, I found when CUPS feed cups-pdf with only 1 parameter, cups-pdf will return with this message. I cannot understand why CUPS call cups-pdf with only 1 parameter. It should tell it the user, the file name, the directory, password,... I have seen the file has already spooled at /var/spool/cups, but nothing in /var/spool/cups-pdf. I did not understand how CUPS call programs at its backend. Someone guru please enlighten me! Frank Peng. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 13:56:44 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:56:44 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone - pots - NOT isp ! In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204101505563679fb86-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1097804930.2772.42.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <416FAE4E.9080502@rogers.com> <4386c5b204101505563679fb86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <416FD71C.1080104@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > I use Sprint Canada for local and long distance. But how do they connect? Other than Bell, the only company with twisted pair cables would be Allstream and their cables don't much go into residential areas. In residential aread, your choices for a wired connection are Bell and Rogers. Your Sprint service, if using twisted pair, is likely coming over Bell wires. About the only significant exception I can think of, is a new subdivision in (IIRC) Richmond Hill, where there was a court case that ruled Bell didn't have an automatic right to run cable. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 13:59:17 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:59:17 -0400 Subject: 3d printer, PDF virtual printer won't work, please help! In-Reply-To: <20041015132733.25193.qmail-nSz8KN0mzF2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041015132733.25193.qmail@web50908.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <416FD7B5.7040707@rogers.com> Frank Peng wrote: > Hi, > > I installed Samba 3.0.7 and CUPS 1.1.21 and > CUPS-PDF1.6.4 on Slackware 8.1. I added 2 printers to > CUPS from Win2K. They are working via LPD and SMB. > > When I added the 3rd printer, a PDF virtual printer, > it won't work. If you're running KDE, you can use Kprinter, to create PDFs. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 14:03:35 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:03:35 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs Message-ID: <31f5947d0410150703351a8e41@mail.gmail.com> I am a grade 11 student in Mississauga. Very interested in post secondary education. I know that I want my occupation to be in the open source industry. What college, university courses should I plan to apply for next year (in grade 12). Also, is there anyway I can get experience in the open source industry before getting a degree, or even right now? What jobs are available in the open source industry? Thanks for all the support! -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 12:34:13 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 08:34:13 -0400 Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <416D8B6C.1050408@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <416FC3C5.5070601@sympatico.ca> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Or www.efax.com which also allows local number and extra value services > ($ pay). I used to use them, and I daresay that my UK eFax number still works. I'm not so keen on them because: * unless you dig deeply in their configuration page, you'll get faxes in their weird proprietary format * They send you e-mail spam. They did work, though, and they do have better worldwide coverage than Protus, who may be Canada only. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 14:12:52 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 07:12:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 3d printer, PDF virtual printer won't work, please help! In-Reply-To: <416FD7B5.7040707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <416FD7B5.7040707@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041015141252.10989.qmail@web50905.mail.yahoo.com> I checked my /etc/cups/printers.conf the device URL for the virtual printer is cups-pdf:/ That means cups-pdf will put pdf files it made to its default directory, which is /var/spool/cups-pdf. But there is nothing there! Do we need add the printer drom Samba instead of from CUPS. Frank Peng. --- James Knott wrote: > Frank Peng wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I installed Samba 3.0.7 and CUPS 1.1.21 and > > CUPS-PDF1.6.4 on Slackware 8.1. I added 2 printers > to > > CUPS from Win2K. They are working via LPD and > SMB. > > > > When I added the 3rd printer, a PDF virtual > printer, > > it won't work. > > If you're running KDE, you can use Kprinter, to > create PDFs. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 14:45:32 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:45:32 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs Message-ID: Hi Adam, I've graduated myself from college 2 years ago. I've been working with linux for the past 2 years. I have been supporting users in a linux environment and programming in a linux environment but I haven't done any developement of open source projects. I think you should spend some time thinking about what you want to do. Specifically, do you want to be a programmer or a technician? There's many things to consider in choosing a good program too. Don't just look at a college name. Look at the programs they offer and the details. You can also get statistics on how many students from a given program will have jobs when they're done. I also suggest considering programs with coops because they are invaluable in getting your foot in the door. Also look at which companies are hiring from the program you're looking at. As far as certifications, the only thing I can think of is the various linux certs but I don't think there's any programming involved AFAIK aside from shell scripting (anyone?). I have been offered a few jobs lately. I've met with the managers and I've was pleasently surprised to see that the company was moving towards linux. I'm not sure about the courses offered in the GTA so I can't be of help there. If you want to be an oss programmer, find a project and get involved. Get a rep for your name. Martin I am a grade 11 student in Mississauga. Very interested in post secondary education. I know that I want my occupation to be in the open source industry. What college, university courses should I plan to apply for next year (in grade 12). Also, is there anyway I can get experience in the open source industry before getting a degree, or even right now? What jobs are available in the open source industry? Thanks for all the support! -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Take advantage of powerful junk e-mail filters built on patented Microsoft?? SmartScreen Technology. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 15:13:42 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:13:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone - pots - NOT isp ! In-Reply-To: <416FAE4E.9080502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <416FAE4E.9080502@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, James Knott wrote: > As far as I know, Bell is currently your only choice. Even if you were > to get it from someone else, you'd still have to use Bell wires. Note, though, that it can be an improvement to have a knowledgeable middleman with business clout dealing with Bell on your behalf. What's wrong with Bell isn't the wires or the boxes on the other end of the wires, it's the clueless help-desk staff. Of course, if your chosen middleman turns out to *also* be clueless, that makes things exponentially worse. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 15:17:49 2004 From: dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:17:49 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs References: <31f5947d0410150703351a8e41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <001d01c4b2ca$2292cb00$6501a8c0@3L1T3> Hey buddy, Thats a good question I would also like to know.. I too am in mississauga and im in college part-time for computer courses (you have to start from the beginning) (ex. a course of like "what is a computer?") its horrible, but then ill get to Linux System Adminastrator. I just took the LPI 101 exam yesterday and passed! (www.lpi.org) ;) so that should be a good recogniation or atleast some recognation for Linux system admin skills for jobplacement. But yeah I really have no idea how many companies are into open source and around toronto or anything like that, I would also like to know. Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Raymond" To: Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 10:03 AM Subject: [TLUG]: Open Source Jobs > I am a grade 11 student in Mississauga. Very interested in post > secondary education. I know that I want my occupation to be in the > open source industry. What college, university courses should I plan > to apply for next year (in grade 12). Also, is there anyway I can get > experience in the open source industry before getting a degree, or > even right now? What jobs are available in the open source industry? > > Thanks for all the support! > > -- > - Adam Raymond - > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 08:30:37 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:30:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <416EE761.6090201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> <416E836A.2090303@detachednetworks.ca> <416ECD06.9050300@rogers.com> <416EE26A.8050700@detachednetworks.ca> <416EE761.6090201@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, James Knott wrote: > Jason Shein wrote: >> James Knott wrote: > >>> I don't have a problem connecting to a wlan, but I do have a problem >>> with kwifimanager. As installed in SuSE, it's broken. >> >> >> I am using SuSE 9.1 on a toshiba satellite 1900, with an orinoco gold >> card. works fine for me using the default rpm. >> > > About all it's good for on my Thinkpad, is as a signal strength monitor. > Kwifimanager doesn't appear to save any settings I put into it. That is likely a permissions problem on the properties file. I have seen a lot of these problems on some installations. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 08:26:13 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:26:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: How to Compile C++ programs In-Reply-To: <20041014103342.28dee53a.jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE@public.gmane.org> References: <1097679923.32125.11.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> <20041014103342.28dee53a.jvetterli@linux.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, John Vetterli wrote: > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 12:25:04 -0400 > Jing Su wrote: >> have you tried just doing 'gcc fill.cc'? > > This won't work: gcc will recognize the .cc extension as > indicating a C++ file, but for the linking stage you need to use g++ so > that the C++ support libraries are included in the link. Otherwise, you > wind up with a lot of "undefined reference" errors. Use a blank makefile and do make fill.cc . The default makefile rules should fix it for you. You make a blank makefile using touch Makefile. This works for c and should work for cc and all other languages supported by default by gnu make. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 16:40:07 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:40:07 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <001d01c4b2ca$2292cb00$6501a8c0@3L1T3> References: <31f5947d0410150703351a8e41@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c4b2ca$2292cb00$6501a8c0@3L1T3> Message-ID: <31f5947d04101509403c332fe1@mail.gmail.com> Thanks allot, I really want to try and get some experience early so I can be ahead of the game in collage/university. I know its really hard to get placed in something, you need a family member who works in the industry. Also with school, they don't work during weekends or anything. But I want to be involved with that actual development of a Linux distro. the projects seem so much fun. On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 11:17:49 -0400, Steve wrote: > Hey buddy, > Thats a good question I would also like to know.. I too am in mississauga > and im in college part-time for computer courses (you have to start from the > beginning) (ex. a course of like "what is a computer?") its horrible, but > then ill get to Linux System Adminastrator. I just took the LPI 101 exam > yesterday and passed! (www.lpi.org) ;) so that should be a good recogniation > or atleast some recognation for Linux system admin skills for jobplacement. > But yeah I really have no idea how many companies are into open source and > around toronto or anything like that, I would also like to know. > > Steve. -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 17:30:23 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:30:23 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04101509403c332fe1-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <31f5947d0410150703351a8e41@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c4b2ca$2292cb00$6501a8c0@3L1T3> <31f5947d04101509403c332fe1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097861423.4877.21.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 12:40 -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > Thanks allot, I really want to try and get some experience early so I > can be ahead of the game in collage/university. I know its really hard > to get placed in something, you need a family member who works in the > industry. Also with school, they don't work during weekends or > anything. But I want to be involved with that actual development of a > Linux distro. the projects seem so much fun. Well, if you just want some practice/experience/something-that-looks-cool, I'd suggest either writing a small application, or joining a volunteer-based distro. Writing your own app is easy, because there are so many things missing in linux... little things. I'd suggest learning perl or python because they are easy to understand, portable (windows too), and quick to develop with. Plus, they both have easy-to-use GUI bindings (tk, gtk, qt, etc.). For example, I wrote two apps I needed myself. One got picked up by Mandrakelinux and became part of their core setup utils (Drakroam), and the other didn't so I just put it up on freshmeat (it's called Tabatha). I've got some good feedback about it too. I'm working on a third one to control my MP3 player. If you're working on something you can use yourself, you tend to put way more time into it! If you're not ready to start coding, there are several distros that are community based. Mandrake, Ubuntu, Debian, and Gentoo are some I can think of immediately. They always need packagers... deb, rpm, and ebuilds are all easy to learn. They also need documenters, which is a great way to get your name on important documents. Finally, you can always help out on the 'help' departments, like Mandrakeclub, the Gentoo forums, or the ubuntu mailing list, just answering questions. If you're really into operating system design, Mandrake will even let you hack away on the core utilities (if you know perl). http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/wiki I have no computer science education at all, yet I have tons of cool stuff to put on my CV, I've spoken at conferences, I've been sent to France for free, and I've seen several back doors open into the IT industry. So you're right, education is only half of what you need to be happy and successful. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 17:56:15 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 13:56:15 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <1097861423.4877.21.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <31f5947d0410150703351a8e41@mail.gmail.com> <001d01c4b2ca$2292cb00$6501a8c0@3L1T3> <31f5947d04101509403c332fe1@mail.gmail.com> <1097861423.4877.21.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: > industry. So you're right, education is only half of what you need to > be happy and successful. (just to give a different perspective, in my humble opinion) As someone who's in graduate school, I have to agree. I think that unless you really want to pursue some kind of computer research, it might not even be worthwhile to get a CS degree. Anyone can learn computers as a hobby, and you can certainly educate yourself sufficiently to understand practical CS aspects like complexity theory, design patterns, and data structures. If you REALLY want to program, then get started working on stuff to build your portfolio. In a weird way it's like art. You need stuff you can show. IMHO, school doesn't help much. I can't get a job anywhere, and now I've reached the point where I'm a little tired of computers, but don't have much background in anything else. My CS education has made me a decently good programmer... but in this market, you really have to be one of the best to make a living off it. Anyways, that's just my opinion. -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 18:18:39 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:18:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Jing Su wrote: > As someone who's in graduate school, I have to agree. I think that unless > you really want to pursue some kind of computer research, it might not > even be worthwhile to get a CS degree... One caution: if you don't have *a* degree, most any employer large enough to have an HR department will have a strong tendency to consign your resume to the recycle bin without reading it. This has nothing to do with your real qualifications, and being good won't automatically overcome it. This "if you couldn't get a degree you can't be any good" reflex *can* be overcome, but people inside the company have to really want you, and even so it's often an uphill battle. In a tight, competitive job market, you don't want to start with two strikes against you. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 18:41:23 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 14:41:23 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 02:18:39PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > One caution: if you don't have *a* degree, most any employer large enough > to have an HR department will have a strong tendency to consign your > resume to the recycle bin without reading it. This has nothing to do with I'd tend to agree with this. My B.Sc. in environmental science has helped me a great deal in getting initial interviews. I don't think it's critical to have an exact match between your degree and what you'd like a job in, rather it shows: (1) commitment (at least three years to get a degree), (2) training in/and practice of _methodologies_ (i.e. how to run a lab experiment and report the results, or researching and writing essays). One of my past employers said he prefers university grads to college grads. In his experience a university grad is better at researching topics they don't already understand and therefore better able to adapt to a changing work environment. This isn't true of _all_ employers...but it is something to be aware of. emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 19:00:17 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:00:17 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> References: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> Message-ID: <20041015190017.GA286@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 02:41:23PM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 02:18:39PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > > One caution: if you don't have *a* degree, most any employer large > > enough to have an HR department will have a strong tendency to > > consign your resume to the recycle bin without reading it. This has > > nothing to do with > > I'd tend to agree with this. My B.Sc. in environmental science has > helped me a great deal in getting initial interviews. I don't think > it's critical to have an exact match between your degree and what > you'd like a job in, rather it shows: (1) commitment (at least three > years to get a degree), (2) training in/and practice of > _methodologies_ (i.e. how to run a lab experiment and report the > results, or researching and writing essays). > > One of my past employers said he prefers university grads to college > grads. In his experience a university grad is better at researching > topics they don't already understand and therefore better able to > adapt to a changing work environment. This isn't true of _all_ > employers...but it is something to be aware of. It also depends on the position. If it's sales related (most jobs are, even in IT companies), then you should have history of successful "sales". Like, "when I was at SCO, I generated $25,000,000 each year." ... hmm, bad example. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 19:18:13 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:18:13 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <20041015190017.GA286-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> <20041015190017.GA286@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31@mail.gmail.com> "Well, if you just want some practice/experience/something-that-looks-cool, I'd suggest either writing a small application, or joining a volunteer-based distro." Are there any in the GTA? or Mississauga. or is it over the Internet? I'm a little worried/scared because I'm so young, people don't want to take the time with a "noob" when they are working. But as I said, I'm very interested with open source, so I'm ready to get in there as soon as possible. -Adam Raymond -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 19:25:05 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:25:05 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200410151525.05741.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On October 15, 2004 02:18 pm, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Jing Su wrote: > > As someone who's in graduate school, I have to agree. I think that > > unless you really want to pursue some kind of computer research, it might > > not even be worthwhile to get a CS degree... > > One caution: if you don't have *a* degree, most any employer large enough > to have an HR department will have a strong tendency to consign your > resume to the recycle bin without reading it. This has nothing to do with > your real qualifications, and being good won't automatically overcome it. > This "if you couldn't get a degree you can't be any good" reflex *can* be > overcome, but people inside the company have to really want you, and even > so it's often an uphill battle. In a tight, competitive job market, you > don't want to start with two strikes against you. i'd have to disagree here. while this was the case in my job search in ottawa, i've found it to be the complete opposite here in toronto. both companies i've worked for here had little interest in what papers i had, and more interest in what i could do. what scored me the job i have now is a great online portfolio with working examples of previous and ongoing work and then a successful interview. not once did anyone ask about "formal training", in fact i had to tell them flat out that i've had absolutely none. 'course the job i'm doing might be different from what you're looking for. i'm a web developer (php/mysql) and sysadmin (linux) and i've worked at a really big porn company and i'm currently at a medium-sized online advertising firm. if you're wanting to work for ibm as a software engineer, i would imagine that the screening process would be considerably different. -- No power in the 'verse can stop me. - River, Firefly, "War Stories" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 19:27:30 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:27:30 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041015192730.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 14, 2004 at 05:24:07PM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > David J Patrick writes: > > I am ditching the MSN loving Sympatico for istop. I have been talking to > > bell about changes to the service and found myself wondering "is there a > > better provider of residential / business telephone service ?" As I was > > only asking myself, I got no good answer, but perhaps a more > > telephonically inclined TLUG lister might know ?? > > Well, if you have a DSL connection already, check out: > > http://www.vonage.ca > > Starnix is not going to have 'landlines' in another week. All VOIP. Speaking of VoIP stuff. You need an internet connection of decent speed for that of course. Nwo the question is: Can you get DSL service without having an active phoneline? If no, can you get DSL service if your phoneline is handled by anyone but Bell? I know the answer to both of these 2 or 3 years ago was no. Is it still the case? Has anyone tried? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 19:27:42 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:27:42 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041015190017.GA286@node1.opengeometry.net> <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410151527.43052.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On October 15, 2004 03:18 pm, Adam Raymond wrote: > "Well, if you just want some > practice/experience/something-that-looks-cool, I'd suggest either > writing a small application, or joining a volunteer-based distro." > > Are there any in the GTA? or Mississauga. or is it over the Internet? > I'm a little worried/scared because I'm so young, people don't want to > take the time with a "noob" when they are working. But as I said, I'm > very interested with open source, so I'm ready to get in there as soon > as possible. try starting small. write a plugin for konqueror that fixes the retarded behaviour of the trash can. submit it to the devs, fix it in all the spots they say are broken until they like it. then you can say something like "contributed to the file maintenance system in the K desktop environment project" -- corporation, n. an ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - ambrose bierce -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 19:47:54 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 15:47:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> <20041015190017.GA286@node1.opengeometry.net> <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Adam Raymond wrote: > Are there any in the GTA? or Mississauga. or is it over the Internet? > I'm a little worried/scared because I'm so young, people don't want to > take the time with a "noob" when they are working. But as I said, I'm > very interested with open source, so I'm ready to get in there as soon > as possible. As a rule OSS people rate others for their skills not their age. Marcelo Tosatti became the maintainer of the 2.4 kernel at only 18, because he had shown the maturity and the skill to do the job. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 16:53:53 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 12:53:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: What are your favorite fax programs these days? In-Reply-To: <416FC3C5.5070601-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20041013140232.02cf83e0@mail.eol.ca> <416D769A.9060908@ilap.com> <416D8B6C.1050408@sympatico.ca> <416FC3C5.5070601@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Peter L. Peres wrote: >> >> Or www.efax.com which also allows local number and extra value services ($ >> pay). > > I used to use them, and I daresay that my UK eFax number still works. I'm not > so keen on them because: > > * unless you dig deeply in their configuration page, you'll get faxes in > their weird proprietary format I didn't dig into their config because I always get plain tiff attachments to an email from them. Nothing funny. They supply a viewer for this for windoze users afaik. I never used it. I do not use my fax number much. The tiffs always open in linux and there are no problems with them at all. The only problem you can have is the usual one: spam sharks get hold of your fax number and then your email box will be jampacked with junk. tiff files compress pretty well but spammers will fill *any* void. > * They send you e-mail spam. No, they clearly say if you get free service you get promo emails, if you pay, you can opt out. No more than 2 per week (compare that to usual spam you get), and usually on topic (computers, communications, or their own value added services). I have no complaints against their 'spam'. > They did work, though, and they do have better worldwide coverage than > Protus, who may be Canada only. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 20:10:19 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:10:19 -0400 Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> <416E836A.2090303@detachednetworks.ca> <416ECD06.9050300@rogers.com> <416EE26A.8050700@detachednetworks.ca> <416EE761.6090201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41702EAB.9000505@rogers.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > On Thu, 14 Oct 2004, James Knott wrote: > >> Jason Shein wrote: >> >>> James Knott wrote: >> >> >>>> I don't have a problem connecting to a wlan, but I do have a problem >>>> with kwifimanager. As installed in SuSE, it's broken. >>> >>> >>> >>> I am using SuSE 9.1 on a toshiba satellite 1900, with an orinoco gold >>> card. works fine for me using the default rpm. >>> >> >> About all it's good for on my Thinkpad, is as a signal strength >> monitor. Kwifimanager doesn't appear to save any settings I put into it. > > > That is likely a permissions problem on the properties file. I have seen > a lot of these problems on some installations. The same applies, when I try to change the settings in the Control Center, using administration mode. What file are you referring to? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 20:26:01 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:26:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Accessing a WEP-secured wireless network In-Reply-To: <41702EAB.9000505-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041014121237.GA2927@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <416E7F95.6070902@rogers.com> <416E836A.2090303@detachednetworks.ca> <416ECD06.9050300@rogers.com> <416EE26A.8050700@detachednetworks.ca> <416EE761.6090201@rogers.com> <41702EAB.9000505@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, James Knott wrote: >> That is likely a permissions problem on the properties file. I have seen a >> lot of these problems on some installations. > > The same applies, when I try to change the settings in the Control Center, > using administration mode. What file are you referring to? In general the permissions on the config files seem to be a mess after installation for some reason. The file may be read-only or otherwise protected or a symbolic link to a read only system default setting. If you want to see what files the program opens, exactly, use strace or read the source. I found k* documentation to be windowishly terse. A useful strace run would be: strace Kwifimanager 2>&1|grep -E "open\("|less (from a command line) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robt-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 20:33:59 2004 From: robt-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Robert Turcott) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:33:59 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. Message-ID: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> Hi, I need to get my palm (treo 600) synching with a usb connection. I have struggled with it before and have got it part way there but really don't want to go through it from scratch again. I had RH8.0 pretty well set up for a desktop at home but essentially reverted back to winXP and one of the main reasons is Palm synching. I have a new install of FC3-test3 for testing with our Progress DB server and would like to see if I can get the desktop setup to the point where I can finally switch (at home). But I'm not going to go thru all that effort again if I can't get my palm going. Gnome-pilot is installed and set up with default ports, but I belive I need to link the usb port, to which my palm is connected, to /dev/pilot. I don't remember a simple way to find that device. Also, anyone have experience getting to point where you can actually do a hotsync install of software (i.e. a .prc or .pdb file) and archiving? Any help - or pointers to a CONSISE reference would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rob. -- Robert Turcott SW Developer/SysAdmin Degama Systems Inc. 416-493-0059 x105 -- This mail from robt Certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.11.1 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 20:43:00 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:43:00 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <41703437.2090607-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> Message-ID: <200410151643.00226.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On October 15, 2004 04:33 pm, Robert Turcott wrote: > Hi, > > I need to get my palm (treo 600) synching with a usb connection. I have > struggled with it before and have got it part way there but really don't > want to go through it from scratch again. I had RH8.0 pretty well set > up for a desktop at home but essentially reverted back to winXP and one > of the main reasons is Palm synching. I have a new install of FC3-test3 > for testing with our Progress DB server and would like to see if I can > get the desktop setup to the point where I can finally switch (at home). > But I'm not going to go thru all that effort again if I can't get my > palm going. > > Gnome-pilot is installed and set up with default ports, but I belive I > need to link the usb port, to which my palm is connected, to /dev/pilot. > I don't remember a simple way to find that device. Also, anyone have > experience getting to point where you can actually do a hotsync install > of software (i.e. a .prc or .pdb file) and archiving? > Any help - or pointers to a CONSISE reference would be greatly appreciated. i'm not sure i can help you with the gnome-specific aspects, but in order to find the dev address of my handspring when i pushed the hotsync button, i just hit the button and watched /var/log/messages for what device the kernel assigned it. then in kpiolot, i specified what the device name was and viola! everything just worked. -- Figures - first time in the Core, and what do I get to do? Dig through trash. Why couldn't he send me shopping at the Tri-plex, or - ooh! Synchronizers! - Kaylee, Firefly -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 20:53:02 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:53:02 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <41703437.2090607-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> Message-ID: <200410151653.02683.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> I am using fc2 at home, and have an old palm with a cradle (palmiiic). I found that adding write permission to whatever $PILOTPORT should resolve to (/dev/ttySomething) was the key. I use this page http://www.dpawson.co.uk/fedora/palm.html as a reference. On October 15, 2004 04:33 pm, Robert Turcott wrote: > Hi, > > I need to get my palm (treo 600) synching with a usb connection. I have > struggled with it before and have got it part way there but really don't > want to go through it from scratch again. I had RH8.0 pretty well set > up for a desktop at home but essentially reverted back to winXP and one > of the main reasons is Palm synching. I have a new install of FC3-test3 > for testing with our Progress DB server and would like to see if I can > get the desktop setup to the point where I can finally switch (at home). > But I'm not going to go thru all that effort again if I can't get my > palm going. > > Gnome-pilot is installed and set up with default ports, but I belive I > need to link the usb port, to which my palm is connected, to /dev/pilot. > I don't remember a simple way to find that device. Also, anyone have > experience getting to point where you can actually do a hotsync install > of software (i.e. a .prc or .pdb file) and archiving? > Any help - or pointers to a CONSISE reference would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Rob. > > > -- > Robert Turcott > SW Developer/SysAdmin > Degama Systems Inc. > 416-493-0059 x105 -- _______________________________________________________ Fred Nastos Ph.D. Candidate Department of Physics Tel: 416-978-4364 University of Toronto Fax: 416-978-2537 60 St. George Street Toronto, ON M5S 1A7 Web: www.physics.utoronto.ca/~nastos _______________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 21:03:25 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:03:25 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <41703437.2090607-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> Message-ID: <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:33:59 -0400 Robert Turcott disseminated the following: > Gnome-pilot is installed and set up with default ports, but I belive I > need to link the usb port, to which my palm is connected, to /dev/pilot. > I don't remember a simple way to find that device. Also, anyone have > experience getting to point where you can actually do a hotsync install > of software (i.e. a .prc or .pdb file) and archiving? > Any help - or pointers to a CONSISE reference would be greatly appreciated. I'm on Mandrake, so there may be major differences, but this is what got me going with my Visor (should apply to any Palm-based devices): http://www.vanderbijlfamily.com/~rvbijl/visor/howto/introduction.html I use JPilot and have never had any problems with it. It is very intuitive when it comes to installing programs or software: http://jpilot.org/ Lots of plugins available for JPilot too! -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 16:56:05 up 72 days, 16:45, 5 users, load average: 0.24, 0.27, 0.22 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "When you give food to the poor, they call you a saint. When you ask why the poor have no food, they call you a communist." -- Archbishop Helder Camara -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 21:15:42 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:15:42 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: References: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> <20041015190017.GA286@node1.opengeometry.net> <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097874942.6682.1.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 15:47 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > As a rule OSS people rate others for their skills not their age. Marcelo > Tosatti became the maintainer of the 2.4 kernel at only 18, because he had > shown the maturity and the skill to do the job. Don't forget DVD Jon. He was 15 when he wrote decss. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 21:24:27 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 17:24:27 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> <20041015190017.GA286@node1.opengeometry.net> <31f5947d04101512187f0e6b31@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097875467.6682.10.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 15:18 -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > "Well, if you just want some > practice/experience/something-that-looks-cool, I'd suggest either > writing a small application, or joining a volunteer-based distro." > > Are there any in the GTA? or Mississauga. or is it over the Internet? All good things are over the internet my friend. Except beer. Most distros other than RedHat and SuSe are run from tiny non-air conditioned offices with cabling reminiscent of snare wire, or they are run from somebody's basement. They usually don't care where you are, who you are, or how old you are. You're free labour. Related to the question though, no I don't know of any linux distros from the GTA. Libranet is from BC. Corel was from Ottawa I think. Vector linux and Arch linux are Canadian, but I'm not sure from where. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 22:16:00 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:16:00 -0400 Subject: OT -> Toronto telephone service provider In-Reply-To: <20041015192730.GK8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1097787810.2772.14.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041015192730.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1097878560.2764.2.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 15:27, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Can you get DSL service without having an active phoneline? > > If no, can you get DSL service if your phoneline is handled by anyone > but Bell? > > I know the answer to both of these 2 or 3 years ago was no. Is it still > the case? > > Has anyone tried? My question exactly ! so far no hint of alternative service. I'll just have to STFW a bit more. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 01:31:53 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:31:53 -0400 Subject: York University FirstClass Client In-Reply-To: <20040927023619.GB9914@smeagol> References: <41577748.2020406@sympatico.ca> <20040927023619.GB9914@smeagol> Message-ID: <41707A09.4080807@sympatico.ca> Status on First Class Client: The good news is that apparently a client being made for Linux. For now though, I was able to set everything up with a browser and my wife is all set. So what is the client for? Maybe I'll find out when there is a linux version. I downloaded cross-over office, but was unable to install the client. Haven't tried bochs. Thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm a little late in responding because of some e-mail problems, but that's a subject for another thread. John. Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: >On Sun, Sep 26, 2004 at 10:13:28PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > > >>Does anyone know anything about York's First Class client? My wife is >>taking a course and they have asked her to download the client from a >>web site. Of course, it only comes in a Mac and Win version. If there's >>an equivalent linux client I could use, that would be great, otherwise I >>am going to have to install win98. >> >> > >I've always used the Web interface to FirstClass. Works just as well as >the client. Whether that says good things or bad things about the client >is another question altogether. ;) Do you know if she has a web interface >available? > >emma > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 01:44:49 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 21:44:49 -0400 Subject: Mozilla Problems Message-ID: <41707D11.9010603@sympatico.ca> I have been running mozilla for quite a while, then it ceased working all of a sudden. I have since installed Firefox and Thunderbird, which I think I like better, but still would like to fix mozilla. What happens now is that mozilla can fetch the mail from my pop3 server and I can read the mail mostly fine, but I can't do anything with it - can't print/delete/file away/reply to/forward/nada. All buttons except the get mail and compose buttons are greyed out. Also, more often than not, clicking on a mail to read it will bounce me right out of mozilla, both mailer and browser. Also, can't print a web page from the browser. All of the above happen with any user I log in as. Two things happened before this problem. The file server, where I have my inbox and local folders, filled up, and I installed Cross-Over Office. Coincidence??? I have searched through settings and lock files and permissions for a hint, but can't come up with anything. Anyone else run into this or have any recommendations to try? John. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 15 22:28:42 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:28:42 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> The OP's kernel will need USB serial support compiled in, and the USB pilot kernel modules. Once these are working, you'll see the device name appear in /var/log/messages when you hit hotsync. I can recommend jpilot. Very handy. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 13:57:39 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 09:57:39 -0400 Subject: simple webcam for linux Message-ID: <417128D3.5070500@sympatico.ca> I've S'dTFW, and all I find is "Model /N/ doesn't quite work yet". I'd like to set up a video conference with my brother in the UK; he's on Windows, I'm not. USB preferred, cheap is also good. Suggestions, guidance, wisdom, etc, appreciated. thanks, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 14:07:30 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 10:07:30 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs - whack-a-mole ! In-Reply-To: <20041015190017.GA286-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> <20041015190017.GA286@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1097935649.2770.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-15 at 15:00, William Park wrote: > Like, "when I was at SCO, I generated $25,000,000 each year." > ... hmm, bad example. ah HAH ! MOLE ! I KNEW it ! All your seemingly brilliant bash flash MUST have been directly lifted from UN*X ! it's TOO good ! ;-) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 16:25:41 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:25:41 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Oct 10, 2004 at 11:10:16PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > Beyond showing up, there are a number of other ways to get involved in > Penguin Day. If you'd like to: > Penguin Day Toronto will be happening on Saturday November 20, 2004 > between 9:30 and 4:30. It will be held at the 215 Centre for Social > Innovation, which is on Spadina Avenue just north of Queen Street. The > address is 215 Spadina, Suite 120. You forgot to mention to bring $75 fee. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 16:59:17 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 12:59:17 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <20041016162541.GA495-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <41715365.8010307@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: > > You forgot to mention to bring $75 fee. Yup. I wonder what the $75 fee supports? Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 17:34:55 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 13:34:55 -0400 Subject: Linux evangelization In-Reply-To: <20041015131350.GA5279-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <200410141900.42993.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <62070.69.70.1.98.1097839496.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <20041015131350.GA5279@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <200410161334.55785.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> Most non-techies do not really understand what an "Operating System" is. They understand lower cost, viruses, and software bugs, however. Probably worth mentioning is the fact that many important FOSS application packages run equally well under Windows and the Mac. So consideration of FOSS need not involve wholesale migration. A good approach to avoiding viruses and spyware is to completely avoid using Microsoft Internet Explorer and Microsoft Outlook. Use Mozilla or Firefox instead, along with any good "non-Outlook" email package, like, say Pegasus. Note that the problems with IE and Outlook frequently involve email messages that can take control of your computer without any action on your part. If you stay with a Microsoft windows operating system, you must of course be very careful to keep up-to-date with every patch issued by Microsoft. You must be careful to run AdAware, Spybot, and firewall software like ZoneAlarm, along with an Antivirus package like Norton or McAfee. If you keep using Microsoft Office, you must reconcile yourself to never using macros, because macros are a favourite way of attacking a remote computer. Instead of Microsoft Office, use Open Office or Star Office. You can try the new environment easily, using a Live CD distibution, like Knoppix, or Mandrakesoft Move. Duncan MacGregor On October 15, 2004 09:13 am, John Macdonald wrote: > On Fri, Oct 15, 2004 at 07:24:56AM -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > > > some managers of small businesses.. > > > > > > they are not too techy so i must somehow equate everything to PROFIT.. > > > CASH... > > > INCOME... you know what i mean... > > > > Talk about the cost of ownership of Linux vs. cost of ownership of any > > other platform! For servers and clients. I just installed SuSE (personal) > > on a desktop, to get the same set of tools for a MS workstation (i.e. all > > of the office tools, etc) it would cost over $1500! This one costs $0. It > > installs in a zip and looks awesome! And does not require a very powerful > > machine to run, unlike Windoze. Everything boils down to lower costs. > > Especially if you frame this as "cost of owning Linux vs. > the cost of renting proprietary". The rights retained through > the license agreement for much proprietary software restricts > the amount of ownership you can possibly have. So, include > the relative cost of moving to a different system (relicensing > effort at a minimum, possibly also there will be surcharges > to the original costs) - most businesses at least hope that > they will grow. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 17:45:10 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 16 Oct 2004 13:45:10 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <20041016162541.GA495-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> William Park writes: > You forgot to mention to bring $75 fee. Gee, I must have missed that when i read the fine print. But the $75 is a little too rich for my blood.... Thanks Bill for pointing that out -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 19:45:48 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 16 Oct 2004 15:45:48 -0400 Subject: simple webcam for linux In-Reply-To: <417128D3.5070500-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <417128D3.5070500@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: "Stewart C. Russell" writes: > I've S'dTFW, and all I find is "Model /N/ doesn't quite work yet". I'd like > to set up a video conference with my brother in the UK; he's on Windows, I'm > not. > > > USB preferred, cheap is also good. > > Suggestions, guidance, wisdom, etc, appreciated. I have the Logitech QuickCam Express working on a combination of Debian stable (woody), testing, and unstable with a custom kernel. I think I'm using this driver: http://qce-ga.sourceforge.net/ but I'm not 100% sure cuz it's on my notebook and I'm working on my desktop right now. I can check if necessary. I've tested it with xawtv and gnophone. Picture quality isn't great but I think that's a function of the cheap hardware rather than the Linux support. HTH, -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 20:27:40 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:27:40 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <41704F1A.2040407-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:28:42 -0400 Stewart C. Russell disseminated the following: > I can recommend jpilot. Very handy. ...until you go and lose your Visor... -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 16:27:00 up 73 days, 16:16, 7 users, load average: 1.76, 1.45, 1.33 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." -- Hunter S. Thompson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 20:55:10 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:55:10 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux Message-ID: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Good day! Many people have talked about the next generation of graphical user interfaces. Mac OS X was supposed to represent a radical departure from the desktop metaphor; instead, the underlying technology became its distinguishing feature. Microsoft's Longhorn is supposed to be "next generation" -- instead, it's looking like 'more of the same.' Meanwhile, the Linux platform is clamouring for the tantalizing goal of "ease of use", that key to final acceptance on the desktop. We're not there yet, and many doubt that the current solutions -- Gnome and KDE -- have what it takes to get us there. Indeed, the trouble with Gnome and KDE -- impressive as they are -- is that they too closely mimic the mainstream operating systems. Without a compelling advantage, what is the incentive to switch? This problem has troubled me for some time, but now I'd like to do what I haven't seen anyone else do: propose a solution. I have begun a project called Dark Sun Linux. It's goal is to create a new GUI for the Linux desktop. It walks away from the "desktop" metaphor of files and folders and trashcans, of icons strewn on the desktop, of windows piled on top of windows. Instead, Dark Sun proposes to abstract the computing experience and cut its ties with the limiting metaphor; instead it'll be a system of drawers and trays, where files are kept by their applications, where the user knows exactly where everything is because it's _right there_, and where the keyboard is king. There's really only one problem: it doesn't exist yet. Worse, I'm not a developer, so I can't make it happen alone. I'm just a publisher trained in information architecture, and the most I can code is PHP. But I can manage a software project. I have the vision, and I've got the ideas. I need help! Initially, I'm looking for a "lead developer" and "graphic designer" -- two folks who will help shape the technical and visual aspects of the environment. To the first will go the responsibility for determining the technical specifications of the environment -- languages, what distro it'll be based on, and how to break the project down into sub-projects. To the second, the responsibility for building the look 'n' feel -- icons, desktop backgrounds, window dressings and other widgets. Once the specifications are drawn, we can open it up to the open sourcing developers and other helpers out there, and get this thing done! Project Dark Sun is now set up as a project on Sourceforge, and I'd love it if you could check out the site at: http://darksunlinux.sourceforge.net You'll also find a much more detailed description of what I'm envisioning, complete with mockup screenshots. I am telling this list about the project first, in the hopes of securing a local team. Depending on response, I'll write a column for OSNews.com and let Slashdot know. I think there'll be a lot of interest! Cheers! Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 21:09:39 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:09:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Oct 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: [snip] > I have begun a project called Dark Sun Linux. It's goal is to create a > new GUI for the Linux desktop. It walks away from the "desktop" > metaphor of files and folders and trashcans, of icons strewn on the > desktop, of windows piled on top of windows. > > Instead, Dark Sun proposes to abstract the computing experience and > cut its ties with the limiting metaphor; instead it'll be a system of > drawers and trays, Aren't those just different names for files and folders? > where files are kept by their applications, I thought you were not going to use files. And, if you are, who says a file can have only one application? > where the user knows exactly where everything is because it's _right > there_, and where the keyboard is king. Where is "right there"? -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 21:10:15 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:10:15 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410161710.16083.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 16, 2004 04:55 pm, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Initially, I'm looking for a "lead developer" and "graphic designer" > -- two folks who will help shape the technical and visual aspects of > the environment. To the first will go the responsibility for > determining the technical specifications of the environment -- > languages, what distro it'll be based on, and how to break the project > down into sub-projects. To the second, the responsibility for building > the look 'n' feel -- icons, desktop backgrounds, window dressings and > other widgets. The project sounds interesting. What kind of "look" are you going for, design-wise? (ie. Fluxbox/Icewm aceticism or KDE/Gnome feature-on-it's-sleeve-ism) Just curious, M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 21:23:35 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:23:35 -0400 Subject: why not going to street? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41719157.7060109@istop.com> Last weeks I have been forced by circumstances to register my own company, in order to be able to work as a subcontructor for another one. Not that I did not like the idea. Actually, I had that idea behind me for a long time. I was only afraid to go after it. The company name I registered is "SoftQuake Open Source Business Solutions". I treat the name SoftQuake as (tm). And how now to proceed? I would like to develop the company under that name. Would like to intercept a huge portion on market and make Gates on the second place of most reach people. Open Source and Business certainly have a lot of common, potentially. How only to convince people? Why not to make a peacefull, legal demonstration on streets of Toronto? Against using Microsoft products? That would probably bring medias and peoples attention. I believe that a large part of participants of this list would like to attend. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 21:33:24 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:33:24 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f0410161433312312ae@mail.gmail.com> Rather than create whole new GUI, can you not just use the existing components and bring your vision to life by modifying them? (that is, without watering down your idea or making this project into a desktop theme) Also, what you describe somehow reminds me of the old school Norton Commander, keyboard-based, lots of tabbing, switching, etc. What people seem to consider 'intuitive', esp. in Windows is usually what they find familiar. Not necessarily easy, or simple, like going to 'View' in MS Word to _insert_ a header/footer, rather than 'Insert', not really GUI-relatd, just my pet peeve :-) What exactly is the point/goal of this new GUI? Do you want it to become a major alternative or just a fun and creative concept? Good luck with the project, Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 21:34:37 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:34:37 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Oct 16, 2004 at 04:55:10PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Indeed, the trouble with Gnome and KDE -- impressive as they are -- is > that they too closely mimic the mainstream operating systems. Without > a compelling advantage, what is the incentive to switch? Agree with your analysis, but disagree about solution. Once MS-Office, particularly MS-Word, is ported to Linux, nobody will even miss Gnome and KDE. Because people will go from X to Xterm to MS-Word directly, skipping Gnome and KDE. > There's really only one problem: it doesn't exist yet. Worse, I'm not > a developer, so I can't make it happen alone. I'm just a publisher > trained in information architecture, and the most I can code is PHP. > But I can manage a software project. I have the vision, and I've got > the ideas. I need help! > > Initially, I'm looking for a "lead developer" and "graphic designer" > -- two folks who will help shape the technical and visual aspects of > the environment. To the first will go the responsibility for > determining the technical specifications of the environment -- > languages, what distro it'll be based on, and how to break the project > down into sub-projects. To the second, the responsibility for building > the look 'n' feel -- icons, desktop backgrounds, window dressings and > other widgets. You also need money. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 21:39:12 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:39:12 -0400 Subject: why not going to street? In-Reply-To: <41719157.7060109-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <41719157.7060109@istop.com> Message-ID: <200410161739.12590.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 16, 2004 05:23 pm, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Last weeks I have been forced by circumstances to register my own > company, in order to be able to work as a subcontructor for another one. > Not that I did not like the idea. Actually, I had that idea behind me > for a long time. I was only afraid to go after it. > > The company name I registered is "SoftQuake Open Source Business > Solutions". I treat the name SoftQuake as (tm). > > And how now to proceed? I would like to develop the company under that > name. Would like to intercept a huge portion on market and make Gates on > the second place of most reach people. > > Open Source and Business certainly have a lot of common, potentially. > How only to convince people? > > Why not to make a peacefull, legal demonstration on streets of Toronto? > Against using Microsoft products? That would probably bring medias and > peoples attention. > > I believe that a large part of participants of this list would like to > attend. > > zb. Ironically, I've found that there are few within the activist community in Toronto - even those dead-set against the WTO - who recognize the importance of open-source software. I went to an event put on by the Toronto Social Forum a couple of years ago, and the master-of-ceremonies was giving a presentation at Ryerson. She was articulating all of these (largely anti-corporate, anti-WTO) things on PowerPoint from a laptop running XP. In response to this, I ended up doing a presentation on open-source software at the next forum. There were only four people who showed up to the lecture, and one of them was an ex-girlfriend. So, I guess what I'm saying is that the traditional "protest community", if I may use that term, is still largely ignorant that the very tools they use to inform people are laden with monopolistic/anti-competitive software. I fear, if you truly want to stage a demonstration, you may have trouble finding support outside of the tech community. -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 21:42:22 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:42:22 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f0410161433312312ae-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <96aa4e8f0410161433312312ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b204101614426a811622@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:33:24 -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > Rather than create whole new GUI, can you not just use the existing > components and bring your vision to life by modifying them? (that is, > without watering down your idea or making this project into a desktop > theme) Sure, if the lead developer says that is the way to go. I don't necessarily need to recreate the wheel. I want a GUI that fits the specs, and I'm not worried about how we get around to doing that. > What exactly is the point/goal of this new GUI? > Do you want it to become a major alternative or just a fun and creative concept? Ideally, a major alternative. William Park wrote: > Agree with your analysis, but disagree about solution. Once MS-Office, > particularly MS-Word, is ported to Linux, nobody will even miss Gnome > and KDE. I'm not holding my breath for that one!!! > You also need money. Don't we all! But in this sense, why do you say that? This is an open source project, and I'm proposing to do this with volunteer effort. Thanks for your responses thus far. Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 22:23:05 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 18:23:05 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <20041016213437.GA1828-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:34:37 -0400 William Park disseminated the following: > Agree with your analysis, but disagree about solution. Once MS-Office, > particularly MS-Word, is ported to Linux, nobody will even miss Gnome > and KDE. Because people will go from X to Xterm to MS-Word directly, > skipping Gnome and KDE. What in the hell does this have to do with the topic at hand? Who gives a rat's ass if MS Orifice is *ever* ported to Linux? -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:17:12 up 73 days, 18:06, 7 users, load average: 1.49, 1.35, 1.29 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "It is not anti-Semitic to criticize the policies of the state of Israel." -- Colin Powell -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 23:37:34 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> References: <20041015184123.GA9278@smeagol> Message-ID: On Fri, 15 Oct 2004, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > ...I don't think it's critical > to have an exact match between your degree and what you'd like a job in, > rather it shows: (1) commitment (at least three years to get a degree), > (2) training in/and practice of _methodologies_ ... Also, not insignificantly, (3) tolerance for a low-status position in a hierarchical bureaucratic organization. Many people who don't get a degree because they don't like the university/college environment wouldn't be very happy in an entry-level job in a sizable company either. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 16 23:45:05 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 19:45:05 -0400 Subject: Open Source Jobs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1097970305.5275.17.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 19:37 -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > Many people who don't get a > degree because they don't like the university/college environment wouldn't > be very happy in an entry-level job in a sizable company either. An excellent point. I teach at a college with a heavy co-op program, and I notice this a lot... the students who seem to "like college" the most do the best in their co-op placements, even if they are not the high-scoring students. I always thought that this was due to a love for the subject (in this case biochemistry), but now that you mention it, it could mostly be due to their compatibility with the organizational structure. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 00:39:27 2004 From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 20:39:27 -0400 Subject: why not going to street? In-Reply-To: <41719157.7060109-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <41719157.7060109@istop.com> Message-ID: <004701c4b3e1$c5556ce0$9901a8c0@plex31> demonstrations are so 1960's... however, what i would do right now - like RIGHT NOW, is to register the domain name - softquake.com it was available 20 seconds ago... -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Zbigniew Koziol Sent: October 16, 2004 5:24 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: why not going to street? Last weeks I have been forced by circumstances to register my own company, in order to be able to work as a subcontructor for another one. Not that I did not like the idea. Actually, I had that idea behind me for a long time. I was only afraid to go after it. The company name I registered is "SoftQuake Open Source Business Solutions". I treat the name SoftQuake as (tm). And how now to proceed? I would like to develop the company under that name. Would like to intercept a huge portion on market and make Gates on the second place of most reach people. Open Source and Business certainly have a lot of common, potentially. How only to convince people? Why not to make a peacefull, legal demonstration on streets of Toronto? Against using Microsoft products? That would probably bring medias and peoples attention. I believe that a large part of participants of this list would like to attend. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 02:02:15 2004 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 22:02:15 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4171D2A7.5B409195@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > > I have begun a project called Dark Sun Linux. It's goal is to create a > new GUI for the Linux desktop. It walks away from the "desktop" > metaphor of files and folders and trashcans, of icons strewn on the > desktop, of windows piled on top of windows. > > Instead, Dark Sun proposes to abstract the computing experience and > cut its ties with the limiting metaphor; instead it'll be a system of > drawers and trays, where files are kept by their applications, where > the user knows exactly where everything is because it's _right there_, > and where the keyboard is king. If you want a real departure from the desktop metaphor, then check out the recently /.-ed release of Croquet at: www.opencroquet.org With sufficient cpu&graphics hardware, it runs on Linux (as well as Windows and Mac). It's open source under an MIT-like licence, and it's here already (in an alpha release for developers), so you don't have to start from scratch. I tend to agree with your "keyboard is king" sentiment; however, Croquet (presently) is heavily mouse dependent. Many have already complained about the lack of keyboard navigation, but now that it's been released, someone will likely "fix" it. --yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:03:12 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:03:12 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4171E0F0.2010700@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi everyone, I too have thought about this problem a lot. After reading the Dark Sun website and your e-mail, here are some of my comments: Aaron Vegh wrote: | Many people have talked about the next generation of graphical user | interfaces. Mac OS X was supposed to represent a radical departure | from the desktop metaphor; instead, the underlying technology became | its distinguishing feature. Microsoft's Longhorn is supposed to be | "next generation" -- instead, it's looking like 'more of the same.' I don't know about Windows Longhorn, because I have not been keeping up with the MS marketing propaganda, but if you watch the video of the keynote address from the last Apple convention (1h40m), and skip to the last 25 minutes or so, you will see that OSX Tiger has some of the features you are describing: The address is (the link was extracted from the bad Quicktime/IE only page at: ). (The file should play in VLC or MPlayer. If you have problem playing it, try opening incoming port 554 for multicast.) The two most impressive features described are the global search and an easy-to-use system for automating tasks (something like a visual version of bash scripting). Nothing new, but nevertheless nicely wrapped for new users. | | Meanwhile, the Linux platform is clamouring for the tantalizing goal | of "ease of use", that key to final acceptance on the desktop. We're | not there yet, and many doubt that the current solutions -- Gnome and | KDE -- have what it takes to get us there. | | Indeed, the trouble with Gnome and KDE -- impressive as they are -- is | that they too closely mimic the mainstream operating systems. Without | a compelling advantage, what is the incentive to switch? I believe the main problem you are trying to address is integration of applications. Unfortunately as long as there are (at least) two competing window managers, GUIs, toolkits, etc. total integration will never be possible. While Freedesktop.org is a step in the right direction, it can never achieve total integration while there are two major groups of developers with different priorities and design goals. It's like asking for a consensus on every issue in a multi-party political system; the best that can be offered are compromises and choices. A new window manager, GUI toolkit, or even a new X-like server (www.y-windows.org) won't solve the problem; it'll only escalate it by increasing the possibilities for incompatibility. I am not critisizing your ideas, only your solution for the problem. I believe people should work on fixing some of the basic incompatibilities that still exist between the QT and GTK toolkit and other immediate problems rather than starting from scratch. How can we talk about a unified interface when basic drag 'n' drop of text doesn't work properly between QT and GTK, the "busy" icon which is supposed to show when an application stops loading (Application Startup Notification) does not work properly, or opening images from Konqueror in The Gimp causes multiple instances of The Gimp to open. I am sure the list can go on. The point is that icons can be turned off, one can place a shortcut bar at the top of the screen with configurable keyboard shortcuts, there is Klipper for the "global clipboard", and some distributions already ship with a graphical bootup screen. Keyboard shortcuts are also configurable, and a tab-based window manager can also be developed on top of the current infrastructure. The real problem lies in the _system-wide_ contact list, _universal_ application drawers, and other _system-wide_ features. If all applications exported meta-data such as supported file types, description, interface, etc. through a DCOP-like interface, it would possible to create a global "recent documents" list that can be filtered for each specific application (if I understand your ideas right). As for keyboard shortcuts, we need a real UI designer to sit down and draw up a set of specifications, and for both KDE and GNOME people to follow it. Unfortunately non of this will happen with the current mind-set of choice = 10 different email clients, unless all of those ten project leaders will agree on the same set of keyboard shortcuts and APIs. A unification of QT and GTK2, with a good wxWindows interface would go a long way. It would also free up a ton of developers to work on other (although perhaps less interesting problems). | I have begun a project called Dark Sun Linux. It's goal is to create a | new GUI for the Linux desktop. It walks away from the "desktop" | metaphor of files and folders and trashcans, of icons strewn on the | desktop, of windows piled on top of windows. The desktop metaphor is extremely suited for the limited interface between the computer and the neurons in your brain. As long as the computer must use a (relatively) small rectangular surface and a pair of speakers to present information, and the user uses a set of ~101 keys and a 2D pointing device named after a rodant, a 2D environment seems most appropriate. The "windows" metaphor provides a good way to expose the multi-tasking capabilities (especially if one does not use "click-to-focus" but rather "point-to-focus"). Most "alternatives" including 3D environment have proven to be more eyecandy than improvements in interface. There is only so much one can do on a 2D screen. Some of the biggest improvement have been "virtual desktops" and Expose-like applications such as Skippy. | | Instead, Dark Sun proposes to abstract the computing experience and | cut its ties with the limiting metaphor; instead it'll be a system of | drawers and trays, where files are kept by their applications, where | the user knows exactly where everything is because it's _right there_, | and where the keyboard is king. It would be best to let the user group the files according to global pieces of metadata (including parent application, a.k.a. filetype). Another good feature would be a global CVS-like system built into the implementation-independent filesystem code, which would keep track of which applications opened each file and a Changelog of the application's actions. For example, if you create an SVG in Sodipodi and then touch it up in The Gimp and convert to a PNG, you could go back, make a change to the SVG in Sodipodi, and The Gimp will know how to re-apply your touch-ups to update the final PNG. Well, that's my 2 cents (well, maybe 20). Comments welcome. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBceDvRreNkzrRRLQRAsrIAJ4oqKSWY1zRKvilyqzjeae3FdUfrACfYvBv TTQnm5yIlzHKXElWNxYF39o= =IuSX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:05:43 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:05:43 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4171D2A7.5B409195-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171D2A7.5B409195@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041017030543.67D1740B3@cbbrowne.com> > Aaron Vegh wrote: > > > > I have begun a project called Dark Sun Linux. It's goal is to create a > > new GUI for the Linux desktop. It walks away from the "desktop" > > metaphor of files and folders and trashcans, of icons strewn on the > > desktop, of windows piled on top of windows. > > > > Instead, Dark Sun proposes to abstract the computing experience and > > cut its ties with the limiting metaphor; instead it'll be a system of > > drawers and trays, where files are kept by their applications, where > > the user knows exactly where everything is because it's _right there_, > > and where the keyboard is king. > > If you want a real departure from the desktop metaphor, > then check out the recently /.-ed release of Croquet at: > www.opencroquet.org > > With sufficient cpu&graphics hardware, it runs on > Linux (as well as Windows and Mac). It's open source > under an MIT-like licence, and it's here already > (in an alpha release for developers), so you don't > have to start from scratch. > > I tend to agree with your "keyboard is king" sentiment; > however, Croquet (presently) is heavily mouse dependent. > Many have already complained about the lack of > keyboard navigation, but now that it's been released, > someone will likely "fix" it. There are merits to trying to come up with new metaphors, but the attempts have been largely unsuccessful. I see little likelihood of some "emulating the real world via 3D" approach being of much use, because: a) Your screen is only actually able to express two dimensions, directly, and OpenGL doesn't change that. You can at best get some limited expression of depth. b) Human ability to use 3D is also limited. Those people that have great depth perception and coordination tend to get paid Big Buck$ to play baseball and such. c) It takes a fair bit of complexity to manipulate computerized 3D interfaces. The "Doom" interface seems to be one of the better ones, but requires all hands on deck to make it function, and isn't oriented at the "computing purpose" of viewing and manipulating information. Would-be makers of the "One True New User Interface" should avail themselves of Ted Nelson's _Dream Machines_, which explored a whole lot of this stuff roughly 30 years ago. The fact that so little of what he wrote about has been implemented, despite millions of dollars of research, should give some pause... -- output = reverse("ofni.secnanifxunil" "@" "enworbbc") http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/internet.html "If I could find a way to get [Saddam Hussein] out of there, even putting a contract out on him, if the CIA still did that sort of a thing, assuming it ever did, I would be for it." -- Richard M. Nixon -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:10:23 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:10:23 -0400 Subject: simple webcam for linux In-Reply-To: References: <417128D3.5070500@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4171E29F.1020703@sympatico.ca> Tim Writer wrote: > > I have the Logitech QuickCam Express ... Thanks! I just got one of these from Factory Direct for under $30. Once I've got the kernel modules rebuilt, I'm sure it'll work great. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:11:22 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:11:22 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041017031122.42A6E40C6@cbbrowne.com> > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:28:42 -0400 > Stewart C. Russell disseminated the following: > > > I can recommend jpilot. Very handy. > > ...until you go and lose your Visor... Actually, even then. It means that while you lost the hardware, you didn't lose the data, or the use thereof... -- output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org") http://linuxfinances.info/info/spiritual.html "In the long run every program becomes rococo - then rubble." -- Alan Perlis -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:54:06 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:54:06 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041017035406.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sat, Oct 16, 2004 at 06:23:05PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 17:34:37 -0400 William Park disseminated the > following: > > > Agree with your analysis, but disagree about solution. Once > > MS-Office, particularly MS-Word, is ported to Linux, nobody will > > even miss Gnome and KDE. Because people will go from X to Xterm to > > MS-Word directly, skipping Gnome and KDE. > > What in the hell does this have to do with the topic at hand? Who > gives a rat's ass if MS Orifice is *ever* ported to Linux? OP is under mistaken notion that GUI will lead to more Linux sale. It's application which sells OS, not the other way. Microsoft is #1, because they sell #1 application. This GUI-centric infatuation is a diversionary tactic promoted by Microsoft. Meanwhile, Microsoft is slow and surely cleaning up database market which is in fact worth more. If I had money, I would invest on filesystem. I mean, put database engine into filesystem, so that it can do indexing, transaction, and all other database "stuffs". Journaling filesystem is sort of in this direction. It's not sexy and probably will not get PR. But, it allows Linux to lock out Oracle, Sybase, DB2, and other database, because the database services that they offer can be done by native filesystem on Linux machine. That's $100 Billion market, folks. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:54:49 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:54:49 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4171E0F0.2010700-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171E0F0.2010700@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b20410162054537408ba@mail.gmail.com> > Unfortunately as long as there are (at least) two > competing window managers, GUIs, toolkits, etc. total integration will > never be possible. While Freedesktop.org is a step in the right > direction, it can never achieve total integration while there are two > major groups of developers with different priorities and design goals. > It's like asking for a consensus on every issue in a multi-party > political system; the best that can be offered are compromises and > choices. A new window manager, GUI toolkit, or even a new X-like server > (www.y-windows.org) won't solve the problem; it'll only escalate it by > increasing the possibilities for incompatibility. You raise a very valid point, and I agree completely that what I'm proposing will basically add to an already-complicated landscape. However, what other solution is there? Nobody sees QT and GTK coalescing anytime soon, so why not introduce a separate alternative? I forsee a system that won't dovetail too closely with KDE and Gnome; from the site you'll get the idea that applications will have to be written specifically for it; modified even if only slightly to behave according to my system's spec. The result will break certain benefits of Linux, and trade it in for a stable, predictable and _consistent_ user experience. Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:57:31 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:57:31 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <20041017031122.42A6E40C6-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017031122.42A6E40C6@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20041017035731.GA9388@neko.afraid.org> I have a Sony Clie and the problems I have with syncing it are nearly enough to make me want to return to Windows. I currently just double key in all the data. I use udev and jpilot doesn't seem to work with it. It errors out at the sync. kpilot syncs random records and gnome-pilot sometimes syncs and sometimes doesn't. Sometimes it creates duplicates of all the records. On 23:11 Sat 16 Oct , cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:28:42 -0400 > > Stewart C. Russell disseminated the following: > > > > > I can recommend jpilot. Very handy. > > > > ...until you go and lose your Visor... > > Actually, even then. It means that while you lost the hardware, you > didn't lose the data, or the use thereof... > -- > output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "ntlug.org") > http://linuxfinances.info/info/spiritual.html > "In the long run every program becomes rococo - then rubble." > -- Alan Perlis > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 04:01:11 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:01:11 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <20041017035406.GA334-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017035406.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4386c5b2041016210169a90a12@mail.gmail.com> > OP is under mistaken notion that GUI will lead to more Linux sale. It's > application which sells OS, not the other way. OP is not under mistaken notion. The apps are here, but they work together poorly. Especially now, we have a two-year window while Microsoft futzes with Longhorn and people are realizing that there are other options out there for their choice of operating system. Right now if they attempt to use Linux they'll be sorely dissapointed. Why don't we have something that provides something "different" and "better"? It should at least have the hallmarks of a system that is well thought-out, organized and consistent. None of these features exist in Linux today. Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 03:59:59 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:59:59 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <20041017035406.GA334-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017035406.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4171EE3F.4020905@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 William Park wrote: | If I had money, I would invest on filesystem. I mean, put database | engine into filesystem, so that it can do indexing, transaction, and all | other database "stuffs". Journaling filesystem is sort of in this | direction. It's not sexy and probably will not get PR. But, it allows | Linux to lock out Oracle, Sybase, DB2, and other database, because the | database services that they offer can be done by native filesystem on | Linux machine. That's $100 Billion market, folks. | Reiserfs4 is designed for this. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBce49RreNkzrRRLQRAgOWAKCCYabePVobnFpxQafkQ8g757zqSgCggetW FBxJHREbEa8u2GfVWbqk6Zw= =mTFd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 04:46:09 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 00:46:09 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410162054537408ba-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171E0F0.2010700@truxtar.com> <4386c5b20410162054537408ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041017044609.1DAAD40C6@cbbrowne.com> > I forsee a system that won't dovetail too closely with KDE and Gnome; > from the site you'll get the idea that applications will have to be > written specifically for it; modified even if only slightly to behave > according to my system's spec. The result will break certain benefits > of Linux, and trade it in for a stable, predictable and _consistent_ > user experience. The latest iteration of interoperability changes is the introduction of DCOP, which is a lightweight IPC scheme that, if it develops onwards, can allow better communication between GNOME and KDE apps. A major thing that Windows has at this point that Linux doesn't is the notion of being able to script control of applications using VBA. If we step BACK ten years, this sort of thing was common in various environments: --> Users in mainframe environments could script control of plenty-o-stuff _including the internals of text editors_, in REXX. --> Users of Amigas could write scripts in AREXX (which, perhaps coincidentally, is a REXX variation) to control their applications. --> I had, pointed out to me, today, a window manager called treewm which has the interesting feature that its behaviour is all scriptable, and scripts can inject WM commands through a FIFO. This sort of thing was _supposed_ to be one of the major features of GNOME; that's where the whole "RMS against Tcl" war came from, when Guile was to become The Way To Script Gnome. (I'm not sure Guile was the right answer, but even in retrospect, nothing else that was an alternative at the time was a better answer...) -- (reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc")) http://linuxfinances.info/info/spiritual.html "Applicants must have *at least* five years experience with Windows XCVIII..." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 05:05:04 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:05:04 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2041016210169a90a12-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017035406.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <4386c5b2041016210169a90a12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1097989504.27442.16.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 00:01 -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > The apps are here, but they work > together poorly. Especially now, we have a two-year window while > Microsoft futzes with Longhorn and people are realizing that there are > other options out there for their choice of operating system. Right > now if they attempt to use Linux they'll be sorely dissapointed. Why > don't we have something that provides something "different" and > "better"? It should at least have the hallmarks of a system that is > well thought-out, organized and consistent. None of these features > exist in Linux today. Withing the magical two-year window, we are almost surely NOT going to see: - unification of QT and GTK - unification of KDE and GNOME - an XFree/Xorg interface that is uniform across all applications We're certainly not going to see the major non-Windows'y stuff disappear either: motif, windowmaker, tk/tcl, etc. And we're probably not going to see a new window system, unless Y Windows gets a load of new developers, or the FreeDesktop.org server gets more popular, and more hardware support. That's all fine and good, as most linux developers are hobbyists or volunteers, and linux certainly is about choice. What really would help the "home" desktop, or the "enterprise" desktop now though, is more dedication to interface standards. Not silly LSB... things move too fast and linux is too flexible for LSB... but GUI standards. To me, *the* biggest pissoff in linux is that the Help/OK/Cancel buttons are not standardized. We spend half of our lives clicking OK or Cancel, usually without reading the text. This is something mostly hard-coded into the app or the toolkit, so people who want their application to be taken seriously should start paying attention to the standardization of the "enterprise linux" GUI. Things like: - coding in wxWindows (Audacity looks great in KDE, Gnome, or Windows) - the Gnome HID (see Gnome 2.8, a good start) - all things FreeDesktop (many underused great features) - a rock solid, universal clipboard (still hoping) - universal themeing (KDE should adopt GTK theme/font, and GNOME the QT theme/font) It's important to remember that many of the things we love and value are part of "hobby linux" or "geek linux" which is great, but "home linux" and "enterprise linux" is where the big bucks are, and where the future of the platform is, and unlike the Amiga or BeOS or something, I think "hobby linux" and "enterprise linux" can coexist quite happily, as long as they acknowledge each others validity. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 05:10:37 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 01:10:37 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <1097989504.27442.16.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017035406.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <4386c5b2041016210169a90a12@mail.gmail.com> <1097989504.27442.16.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1097989837.27442.19.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 01:05 -0400, Austin wrote: > To me, *the* biggest pissoff in linux is that the > Help/OK/Cancel buttons are not standardized. We spend half of our lives > clicking OK or Cancel, usually without reading the text. Point of clarification... I meant that the order and locations of the OK and Cancel buttons are often reversed between QT, GTK, Gnome2, and custom apps. Even between Gnome1 and Gnome2 I think this was switched. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 15:23:24 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:23:24 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <20041017035731.GA9388-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017031122.42A6E40C6@cbbrowne.com> <20041017035731.GA9388@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <20041017112324.77915833.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:57:31 -0400 Noah John Gellner disseminated the following: > I use udev and jpilot doesn't seem to work with it. I bet if you asked about that on the JPilot list you'd get some helpful answers. Pretty knowledgeable people on there, was just a recent thread about this IIANM. -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 11:19:03 up 74 days, 11:08, 7 users, load average: 0.06, 0.06, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding." -- John Kenneth Galbraith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 15:26:32 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:26:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Temporarily suspending mail from tlug list ? Message-ID: <20041017152632.98232.qmail@web40721.mail.yahoo.com> I went to http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml and found where I can subscribe and unsubscribe. If I unsubscribe and then subscribe again later will I have to sign-up to become a member of the list again? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 15:30:55 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 11:30:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b2041016210169a90a12-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041016213437.GA1828@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041016182305.7c2301b5.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017035406.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <4386c5b2041016210169a90a12@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: >> OP is under mistaken notion that GUI will lead to more Linux sale. It's >> application which sells OS, not the other way. > > OP is not under mistaken notion. The apps are here, but they work > together poorly. Especially now, we have a two-year window while > Microsoft futzes with Longhorn and people are realizing that there are > other options out there for their choice of operating system. Right > now if they attempt to use Linux they'll be sorely dissapointed. Why > don't we have something that provides something "different" and > "better"? It should at least have the hallmarks of a system that is > well thought-out, organized and consistent. None of these features > exist in Linux today. Imho what you want is something like FreeBSD or OpenBSD where the developer core is closed and coherence can be achieved and maintained. Linux is a movement, not an OS, and everyone does as he pleases. If you want coherence you make your own distribution and maintain it. See Debian, Knoppix, RH, SuSe etc. Each has its 'flavor' and people who run Linux usually change the configurations heavily. The *bsd stuff is more coherent and also has far fewer cutting edge projects and ideas going on it, that might break something important. But, at the same time, I believe Linux is the platform to develop your ideas on, because it is open and flexible for such development. $0.02 Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 18:49:59 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:49:59 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <20041017112324.77915833.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041017031122.42A6E40C6@cbbrowne.com> <20041017035731.GA9388@neko.afraid.org> <20041017112324.77915833.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041017184959.GA9389@neko.afraid.org> Thank you for inspiring me to resolve my jpilot woes. I had updated the package and didn't read the README which specified that the sync component was no longer included. I installed it and things are gravy. Still no luck with evolution, but that is fine. On 11:23 Sun 17 Oct , JoeHill wrote: > On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:57:31 -0400 > Noah John Gellner disseminated the following: > > > I use udev and jpilot doesn't seem to work with it. > > I bet if you asked about that on the JPilot list you'd get some helpful answers. > > Pretty knowledgeable people on there, was just a recent thread about this IIANM. > > -- > JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org > 11:19:03 up 74 days, 11:08, 7 users, load average: 0.06, 0.06, 0.01 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding." -- John Kenneth Galbraith > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 18:58:47 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 14:58:47 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <87d5zia76h.fsf-GtzO1qr/b/653Rd6M7GqU0CW56haWIzXIrC0AzgbhvsKu2YovVVDERgSKFK9O5hcLMHrShElKjA@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> If you purchase in advance the fee is $50. The fee goes to facitlities, food, and travel expenses for some presenters. The event is not planned as a money maker and organizers, including myself, are mostly volunteer. I hope that the cost will not be an insurmountable barrier. I believe that the event has the potential to begin the process of bridging the gap between civil action types and tech types. I would relate it to the thread about staging a free software demonstration. It was stated that the problem is that people involved with the social action are mainly unaware of the work being done in the open source world. I agree and see Penguin Days as one way of increasing awareness. Cheers, Noah On 13:45 Sat 16 Oct , SlackRat wrote: > William Park writes: > > > You forgot to mention to bring $75 fee. > > Gee, I must have missed that when i read the fine print. > > But the $75 is a little too rich for my blood.... > > Thanks Bill for pointing that out > > -- > Slackrat > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 19:15:31 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Qiang ( Lee )) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 12:15:31 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041017191531.19998.qmail@web54705.mail.yahoo.com> --- Aaron Vegh wrote: > > Indeed, the trouble with Gnome and KDE -- impressive as they are -- is > that they too closely mimic the mainstream operating systems. Without > a compelling advantage, what is the incentive to switch? > I don't think the mmimic of MS windows is the cause of it at all. I would consider switch to Linux desktop as long as it can give me the same feel of windows. good luck with the project though. I will take a look at it. Qiang _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today! http://vote.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 19:25:01 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:25:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Temporarily suspending mail from tlug list ? In-Reply-To: <20041017152632.98232.qmail-0SMh1eU9I6aA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041017152632.98232.qmail@web40721.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 17 Oct 2004, Mel Seder wrote: > I went to http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml and found where I can subscribe > and unsubscribe. > > If I unsubscribe and then subscribe again later will I have to sign-up to > become a member of the list again? Hi Mel. Subscribing to the list and signing-up are one and the same thing. When you unsubscribe you will no longer be on the list and will not receive email. When you subscribe again you will then be on the list and start to receive email from it again (following your confirmations in each case IIRC). I hope I understood you question and answered it :) Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 19:54:09 2004 From: yanni-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Yanni Chiu) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 15:54:09 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171D2A7.5B409195@rogers.com> <20041017030543.67D1740B3@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <4172CDE1.7424E69@rogers.com> Christopher Browne wrote: > > > If you want a real departure from the desktop metaphor, > > then check out the recently /.-ed release of Croquet at: > > www.opencroquet.org > > There are merits to trying to come up with new metaphors, but > the attempts have been largely unsuccessful. > > I see little likelihood of some "emulating the real world via 3D" > approach being of much use, because: > > a) Your screen is only actually able to express two dimensions, > directly, and OpenGL doesn't change that. You can at best > get some limited expression of depth. > > b) Human ability to use 3D is also limited. Those people that > have great depth perception and coordination tend to get > paid Big Buck$ to play baseball and such. > > c) It takes a fair bit of complexity to manipulate computerized 3D > interfaces. The "Doom" interface seems to be one of the better > ones, but requires all hands on deck to make it function, and > isn't oriented at the "computing purpose" of viewing and > manipulating information. These are all good points, and I too am not entirely convinced of the merits of 3D visuals. However, you can operate entirely within the more familiar 2D screen by "zooming" to full screen once you've successfully navigated to your application (and there are shortcuts to take you places quickly). If the general population can be successful with a desktop metaphor, then why wouldn't they be equally (or more) successful with a 3D physical world metaphor (once they've learn to move through such a space). When I was a kid, the fanciest computer game was "pong", so I might be a lost cause. But almost any of today's kids (anyone under 25?) can likely "fly" through a 3D space. And I don't think they're all Big$ atheletes. Also, 3D is only one major aspect of Croquet. The other is about enabling the interaction of millions of simultaneous users. It does this by synchronizing the replication of computations over many user machines, so no central server is the bottleneck. > Would-be makers of the "One True New User Interface" should avail > themselves of Ted Nelson's _Dream Machines_, which explored a whole lot > of this stuff roughly 30 years ago. I'm not familiar with Nelson's work, but Croquet is being spearheaded by Alan Kay (recent ACM Turing award recipient). About 30 years ago, Kay and co. at Xerox PARC developed the Smalltalk environment which was Apple's inspiration for the Mac windowing system. So IMHO, Croquet could be the next step in UI evolution. --yanni -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 20:08:28 2004 From: patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Patrick) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:08:28 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200410171608.28676.patrick.bloomfield@sympatico.ca> Aaron: Good luck with what you intend, but, as a new Linux user, I have doubts about your direction. I don't see any problem with mimicking the mainstream operating systems. They've been successful simply because they have met user needs for many years now. To my mind the benefit that Linux distributions such as SuSe 9.1 or Redhat's equivalent is that they offer more stability, predictability and screen clarity than their mainstream equivalents. I've been using SuSe seriously for a couple of weeks now and, since Day One, I have felt much more secure and at home when working with the system than I ever did with the Msoft equivalents, and I had been using Windows since Windows 1.0. I respectfully suggest that the improvement to Linux distributions that are most likely to pull users across from Windows is in documentation. A user, whether GUI- or command line-based, not only needs to be satisfied with what he or she is doing, but also needs to know why he or she is doing it and how the system is doing it. I am not a geek, and am too old (seventies) to become one. But I can appreciate that Linux in general concept is the superior system. But I have beaten my head against the wall overcoming simple problems, such as setting up a wireless card, or trying to get the right file associations for Suse's Konqueror browser, after having accidentally accepted a dialogue option to make a global chance. Showing a whole raft of file suffices in order to make or edit a particular file association doesn't mean thing to me. My bookstore research has shown me a whole shelf-full of books on Redhat, but the literature on SuSe is pretty sparse. And that has been my main stumbling block. If I hadn't been able to call on the help of a too-willing techie son, I would have been sunk. Patrick Bloomfield. On Saturday 16 October 2004 16:55, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Good day! > Many people have talked about the next generation of graphical user > interfaces. Mac OS X was supposed to represent a radical departure > from the desktop metaphor; instead, the underlying technology became > its distinguishing feature. Microsoft's Longhorn is supposed to be > "next generation" -- instead, it's looking like 'more of the same.' > > Meanwhile, the Linux platform is clamouring for the tantalizing goal > of "ease of use", that key to final acceptance on the desktop. We're > not there yet, and many doubt that the current solutions -- Gnome and > KDE -- have what it takes to get us there. > > Indeed, the trouble with Gnome and KDE -- impressive as they are -- is > that they too closely mimic the mainstream operating systems. Without > a compelling advantage, what is the incentive to switch? > > This problem has troubled me for some time, but now I'd like to do > what I haven't seen anyone else do: propose a solution. > > I have begun a project called Dark Sun Linux. It's goal is to create a > new GUI for the Linux desktop. It walks away from the "desktop" > metaphor of files and folders and trashcans, of icons strewn on the > desktop, of windows piled on top of windows. > > Instead, Dark Sun proposes to abstract the computing experience and > cut its ties with the limiting metaphor; instead it'll be a system of > drawers and trays, where files are kept by their applications, where > the user knows exactly where everything is because it's _right there_, > and where the keyboard is king. > > There's really only one problem: it doesn't exist yet. Worse, I'm not > a developer, so I can't make it happen alone. I'm just a publisher > trained in information architecture, and the most I can code is PHP. > But I can manage a software project. I have the vision, and I've got > the ideas. I need help! > > Initially, I'm looking for a "lead developer" and "graphic designer" > -- two folks who will help shape the technical and visual aspects of > the environment. To the first will go the responsibility for > determining the technical specifications of the environment -- > languages, what distro it'll be based on, and how to break the project > down into sub-projects. To the second, the responsibility for building > the look 'n' feel -- icons, desktop backgrounds, window dressings and > other widgets. > > Once the specifications are drawn, we can open it up to the open > sourcing developers and other helpers out there, and get this thing > done! > > Project Dark Sun is now set up as a project on Sourceforge, and I'd > love it if you could check out the site at: > > http://darksunlinux.sourceforge.net > > You'll also find a much more detailed description of what I'm > envisioning, complete with mockup screenshots. > > I am telling this list about the project first, in the hopes of > securing a local team. Depending on response, I'll write a column for > OSNews.com and let Slashdot know. I think there'll be a lot of > interest! > > Cheers! > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 20:10:48 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 16:10:48 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <20041017030543.67D1740B3-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171D2A7.5B409195@rogers.com> <20041017030543.67D1740B3@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 23:05:43 -0400, Christopher Browne wrote: > Would-be makers of the "One True New User Interface" should avail > themselves of Ted Nelson's _Dream Machines_, which explored a whole lot > of this stuff roughly 30 years ago. Jef Raskin also wrote an intro-level book called The Humane Interface which goes over this subject matter. HIs discussion of ZoomWorld interfaces is quite interesting. It's kinda like the interface in B&W ('cept without the seasickening barrel rolls). > The fact that so little of what he wrote about has been implemented, > despite millions of dollars of research, should give some pause... The people who actually create human interfaces for programs rarely seem to have ANY knowledge whatsoever about user interface design, going for what 'looks cool' over what actually works. That is, when they even go that far (some interfaces are uncool, fugly, and don't work either). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 21:04:47 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:04:47 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <20041017185847.GD9389-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <20041017210447.GA405@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > If you purchase in advance the fee is $50. The fee goes to facitlities, > food, and travel expenses for some presenters. The event is not > planned as a money maker and organizers, including myself, are mostly > volunteer. Presenting what? I thought this was informal get-together between NGOs and Linux guys, sort of pre-RFP. They tells us their problems, and we says how much Linux solution will cost them. I didn't know it would be another scam. > > I hope that the cost will not be an insurmountable barrier. I believe > that the event has the potential to begin the process of bridging the > gap between civil action types and tech types. The cost is not a barrier. But, there is no concrete objective to this meeting. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 21:07:07 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:07:07 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098047227.25568.8.camel@neko.afraid.org> I spoke to soon praising jpilot. I did some research and it seem that presently I cannot expect to sync consistently with my Clie. Jpilotsyncs but the display doesn't show field names. Evolution 2.0 calendar doesn't sync. Kpilot is inconsistent. On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 16:27 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:28:42 -0400 > Stewart C. Russell disseminated the following: > > > I can recommend jpilot. Very handy. > > ...until you go and lose your Visor... > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 21:15:08 2004 From: dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:15:08 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> <20041017210447.GA405@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <001101c4b48e$61894bc0$6501a8c0@3L1T3> ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Park" To: Sent: Sunday, October 17, 2004 5:04 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Penguin Days Toronto > On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > If you purchase in advance the fee is $50. The fee goes to facitlities, > > food, and travel expenses for some presenters. The event is not > > planned as a money maker and organizers, including myself, are mostly > > volunteer. > > Presenting what? I thought this was informal get-together between NGOs > and Linux guys, sort of pre-RFP. They tells us their problems, and we > says how much Linux solution will cost them. I didn't know it would be > another scam. > > > > > I hope that the cost will not be an insurmountable barrier. I believe > > that the event has the potential to begin the process of bridging the > > gap between civil action types and tech types. > > The cost is not a barrier. But, there is no concrete objective to this > meeting. > the cost is a barrier to me atleast, I was going to go.., Im just a lonely linux loving guy lol I thought I would check out this thing thats going on, Is this pengiun day open to anyone to just come? and I take it it costs $50 to go? Steve. > -- > William Park > Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 21:24:38 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 17:24:38 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <20041017210447.GA405-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> <20041017210447.GA405@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1098048278.25568.20.camel@neko.afraid.org> William, I am not sure what you mean by 'another scam,' however I would like to clarify the intent behind the event. It is certainly not to be non-technical users specifying problems and thereby searching for contractors. Rather it is intended to be a foster a higher level dialogue with the shared aim of implementation of open source. In this context implementation does not begin or end at coding. Rather it should connote an entire iterative creative and productive process which develops through idea sharing and feedback between technical and non-technical participants in the open source movement. I think that the strongest criticism of many open source tools is that they are a)incomplete and b)derivative and thus parasitical of commercial offerings. My thinking is that a potential solution to both of these problems is expanding the 'community.' I believe that activities like Penguin Days is one way of at least beginning this process. I hope that a knock on effect is developing the user base and thereby disrupting OS inertia. Regards, Noah On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 17:04 -0400, William Park wrote: >They tells us their problems, and we > says how much Linux solution will cost them. I didn't know it would be > another scam. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 22:49:33 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:49:33 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <20041017185847.GD9389-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: On Oct 17, 2004, at 2:58 PM, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I believe > that the event has the potential to begin the process of bridging the > gap between civil action types and tech types. I'm not terribly concerned about the cost, recognizing that these things always have some overhead. One question I had, however, that may have been missed: Which people and organizations from the non-profit sector are involved in the creation of this event other than the one Greenpeace name on the web site? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 22:53:58 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 18:53:58 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <4172F806.2080807@istop.com> phil wrote: > On Oct 17, 2004, at 2:58 PM, Noah John Gellner wrote: > >> I believe >> that the event has the potential to begin the process of bridging the >> gap between civil action types and tech types. > > > I'm not terribly concerned about the cost, recognizing that these things > always have some overhead. One question I had, however, that may have > been missed: Which people and organizations from the non-profit sector > are involved in the creation of this event other than the one Greenpeace > name on the web site? Very good question. For myself, the cost _is_ an issue, at least at the moment. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 17 23:39:32 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:39:32 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <1098056373.25568.40.camel@neko.afraid.org> Phil, There are presently verbal confirmations from: - Greenpeace - Advocacy for Training and Employment for Women - Rabble.ca - Creative Commons - Bellanet As far as I know registration is not open yet so I cannot confirm further details. The authoritative answer should be available by E-mailing the address on the Penguin Days site. Cheers, Noah On Sun, 2004-10-17 at 18:49 -0400, phil wrote: > I'm not terribly concerned about the cost, recognizing that these > things always have some overhead. One question I had, however, that > may have been missed: Which people and organizations from the > non-profit sector are involved in the creation of this event other than > the one Greenpeace name on the web site? > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 00:15:59 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 20:15:59 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <1098056373.25568.40.camel-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> <1098056373.25568.40.camel@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: Thanks for the list. On Oct 17, 2004, at 7:39 PM, Noah John Gellner wrote: > - Greenpeace > - Advocacy for Training and Employment for Women I don't know that one. Might it be "A Commitment to Training and Employment for Women" (ACTEW)? > - Rabble.ca > - Creative Commons > - Bellanet Bellanet is a techie collection also, right? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 01:00:33 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:00:33 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Toronto In-Reply-To: <20041017210447.GA405-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> <20041017210447.GA405@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20041018010033.115FD40D2@cbbrowne.com> > On Sun, Oct 17, 2004 at 02:58:47PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > If you purchase in advance the fee is $50. The fee goes to facitlities, > > food, and travel expenses for some presenters. The event is not > > planned as a money maker and organizers, including myself, are mostly > > volunteer. > > Presenting what? I thought this was informal get-together between NGOs > and Linux guys, sort of pre-RFP. They tells us their problems, and we > says how much Linux solution will cost them. I didn't know it would be > another scam. If they have to pay for facilities, that can easily chew most of the money all by itself. You're being WAY too quick to point at it being a scam. That's a four letter word that should only be brought up if there's pretty clear indication that someone is committing fraud, which is the four letter word that has five letters. -- (reverse (concatenate 'string "moc.liamg" "@" "enworbbc")) http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linux.html If you're sending someone some Styrofoam, what do you pack it in? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robt-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 01:31:54 2004 From: robt-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Rob Turcott) Date: Sun, 17 Oct 2004 21:31:54 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <1098047227.25568.8.camel-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041015170325.4493aef2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <41704F1A.2040407@sympatico.ca> <20041016162740.6e42675b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1098047227.25568.8.camel@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <41731D0A.8080808@degama.com> I've got JPilot up and running and it looks fine. Thanks all for the help. Had to make sure permissions were set properly on the ttyUSB1 port and it turns out the pilot-link rpm was installed on the initial install (FC3-test3 workstation). Looks like my other conduits might suffer a bit though: iSilox has only a command line version. I might have to move more completely to Plucker. Also, I don't know what to do about the export (to .cvs) conduit for Splash Money. I'll have to investigate conduits on pilot-link more closely - or perhaps WINE for some of the desktop conduit programs? Thanks again, Rob. -- Robert Turcott From Home PGP Public Key 11B05F4E Noah John Gellner wrote: > I spoke to soon praising jpilot. I did some research and it seem that > presently I cannot expect to sync consistently with my Clie. Jpilotsyncs > but the display doesn't show field names. Evolution 2.0 calendar doesn't > sync. Kpilot is inconsistent. > > On Sat, 2004-10-16 at 16:27 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > >>On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 18:28:42 -0400 >>Stewart C. Russell disseminated the following: >> >> >>>I can recommend jpilot. Very handy. >> >>...until you go and lose your Visor... >> > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: robt.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 179 bytes Desc: not available URL: From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 15:01:56 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 18 Oct 2004 11:01:56 -0400 Subject: It's a scam [was Re:Penguin Days Toronto] In-Reply-To: <20041018010033.115FD40D2-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1097464216.32343.11.camel@localhost> <20041016162541.GA495@node1.opengeometry.net> <87d5zia76h.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20041017185847.GD9389@neko.afraid.org> <20041017210447.GA405@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041018010033.115FD40D2@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org writes: > > says how much Linux solution will cost them. I didn't know it would be > > another scam. > > If they have to pay for facilities, that can easily chew most of the > money all by itself. Sorry, I just wanted to get people to read this ;) It isn't really a scam. However, I wouldn't want the $50 to be a burden for people that will _really_ help out. So, CLUE is willing to sponsor two(2) people to go to Penguin Day. Perhaps 'GTA Linux User Group Inc.' [is that the name?] could do the same. Anyone that wants to take up this offer should contact Noah about it [sorry, Noah ;)]. I trust him to handle the selection criteria and the selection should there be more than two people that want to be sponsored. So tell him what you hope to accomplish or do at Penguin Day and have fun. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 16:39:54 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:39:54 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4171E0F0.2010700-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171E0F0.2010700@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20041018163954.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 16, 2004 at 11:03:12PM -0400, Anton Markov wrote: [snip] > How can we talk about a unified interface when basic drag 'n' drop of > text doesn't work properly between QT and GTK, the "busy" icon which is > supposed to show when an application stops loading (Application Startup > Notification) does not work properly, or opening images from Konqueror > in The Gimp causes multiple instances of The Gimp to open. I am sure the > list can go on. So all applications should support finding an instance of themselves and adding the passed file as a new document rather than launching a new copy of the program? What if that isn't what the user wants? > The point is that icons can be turned off, one can place a shortcut bar > at the top of the screen with configurable keyboard shortcuts, there is > Klipper for the "global clipboard", and some distributions already ship > with a graphical bootup screen. Keyboard shortcuts are also > configurable, and a tab-based window manager can also be developed on > top of the current infrastructure. > > The real problem lies in the _system-wide_ contact list, _universal_ > application drawers, and other _system-wide_ features. If all > applications exported meta-data such as supported file types, > description, interface, etc. through a DCOP-like interface, it would > possible to create a global "recent documents" list that can be filtered > for each specific application (if I understand your ideas right). As for > keyboard shortcuts, we need a real UI designer to sit down and draw up a > set of specifications, and for both KDE and GNOME people to follow it. And in which language should the keyboard shortcuts make sense? > Unfortunately non of this will happen with the current mind-set of > choice = 10 different email clients, unless all of those ten project > leaders will agree on the same set of keyboard shortcuts and APIs. A > unification of QT and GTK2, with a good wxWindows interface would go a > long way. It would also free up a ton of developers to work on other > (although perhaps less interesting problems). Similar problem. What if they have different features, how do you make keyboard shortcuts make sense for all features for all programs in all languages? > It would be best to let the user group the files according to global > pieces of metadata (including parent application, a.k.a. filetype). > > Another good feature would be a global CVS-like system built into the > implementation-independent filesystem code, which would keep track of > which applications opened each file and a Changelog of the application's > actions. For example, if you create an SVG in Sodipodi and then touch it > up in The Gimp and convert to a PNG, you could go back, make a change to > the SVG in Sodipodi, and The Gimp will know how to re-apply your > touch-ups to update the final PNG. Part of what I have always liked about unix/linux systems is that each tool tends to do one thing, but does it very very well. Integration of too many features and tieing programs directly together tends to add feature creep, introduce complexities to the coding and usually a ton more bugs. I want simple programs that do their particular job well, and if you can control them entirely from commandline/script then it's perfect since I can simply script those steps I want the gimp to do to the sodipodi file and repeat it on any input file (or input file change) that I want, which is to me MUCH better than having the programs talk to each other and discuss changes and such. It sounds like you want to do between applications what current high end CAD systems do internally for their geometry data (everything is a tree structure of dependant variables, and relative specifications where if you change the size of something, everything made dependant on that size will update). Very complex to implement well, and doing it between applications sounds even more tricky and probably not worthwhile. > Well, that's my 2 cents (well, maybe 20). Comments welcome. Well mine are probably only worth an extra $0.01. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 16:47:43 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: spam deluge: who uses what ? Message-ID: Hi all, The time has come to raise my walls against spam again. I am considering bogofilter. I have looked at other options, and this looks good for my setup. What do others use (spam filter on home server/home workstation under linux). thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 16:53:25 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:53:25 -0400 Subject: spam deluge: who uses what ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <298929944.20041018125325@rogers.com> Monday, October 18, 2004, 12:47:43 PM, you wrote: PLP> Hi all, PLP> The time has come to raise my walls against spam again. I am considering PLP> bogofilter. I have looked at other options, and this looks good for my PLP> setup. What do others use (spam filter on home server/home workstation PLP> under linux). PLP> thanks, PLP> Peter I tend to use spamassassin (http://spamassassin.apache.org/), as do many others. It's just a filter, of course, but it can be taught to be very precise. It more or less "just works". M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 17:06:45 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:06:45 -0400 Subject: spam deluge: who uses what ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4173F825.2010204@rogers.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Hi all, > > The time has come to raise my walls against spam again. I am considering > bogofilter. I have looked at other options, and this looks good for my > setup. What do others use (spam filter on home server/home workstation > under linux). I use the spam filtering in Mozilla, which appears to work well. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 17:52:32 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 13:52:32 -0400 Subject: spam deluge: who uses what ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417402E0.8040208@detachednetworks.ca> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Hi all, > > The time has come to raise my walls against spam again. I am > considering bogofilter. I have looked at other options, and this looks > good for my setup. What do others use (spam filter on home server/home > workstation under linux). > > thanks, > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Dspam if it your own mailserver. http://dspam.sourceforge.net/ Thunderbird's spam filter works for everything else. -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 19:11:18 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 15:11:18 -0400 Subject: spam deluge: who uses what ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041018151118.6b408dd4.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 12:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Peter L. Peres disseminated the following: > The time has come to raise my walls against spam again. I am considering > bogofilter. I have looked at other options, and this looks good for my > setup. What do others use (spam filter on home server/home workstation > under linux). I go for a multilayered defense: http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/ then: http://www.xisp.net/notespam/ as well as: http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nikant/nkvir/ (both notespam and nkvir are used in conjunction with Procmail). Out of the hundreds of spam I'm sent every day, maybe 2 or 3 get through. -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 15:04:25 up 75 days, 14:53, 6 users, load average: 0.29, 0.32, 0.57 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "President Bush is asking Congress for $80 billion dollars to rebuild Iraq. And when you make out that check, remember there are two L's in Halliburton." -- David Letterman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 20:32:28 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 18 Oct 2004 16:32:28 -0400 Subject: spam deluge: who uses what ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87brezahsz.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> "Peter L. Peres" writes: > Hi all, > > The time has come to raise my walls against spam again. I am > considering bogofilter. I have looked at other options, and this looks > good for my setup. What do others use (spam filter on home server/home > workstation under linux). > > thanks, > > Peter I tend to just use the mail splitting capabilities in GNUS (putting known items, From, To, Subject, etc. into separate groups) with the catchall group for anything not split according to a rule in the config being potential spam. For a server, apart from the mail that comes directly to my box, I was using fastmail.fm and was happy with them for years until they recently started using Sieve which seems to be a moronic application; the spam continues unabated but it managed to flag traffic from the government Old Age Pension Department in the UK, from a friend in Dallas and another in England as spam and bounce it back. And these are only ones that I know about. So pondering what to do, I recommenced using my Toronto Free Net account and forwarding the mail from there directly onto my box at home. Whilst there is more than a fair amount of UCE directed to the TFN, at least the good old Toronto Free Net diligently forwards it allowing _me_ to make the decision on what is, and what is not, spam after I split off the known traffic and review the ``Miscellaneous'' catchall group. I sure hope nobody at TFN comes up with the bright idea of adding some spam filtering application :) It is working rather well but does necessitate updating the Gnus config file quite regularly to add and delete known sources. An added side benefit is that I don't need to run fetchmail anymore either. -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 21:37:46 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:37:46 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <20041018163954.GL8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171E0F0.2010700@truxtar.com> <20041018163954.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <417437AA.2090704@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lennart Sorensen wrote: |>How can we talk about a unified interface when basic drag 'n' drop of |>text doesn't work properly between QT and GTK, the "busy" icon which is |>supposed to show when an application stops loading (Application Startup |>Notification) does not work properly, or opening images from Konqueror |>in The Gimp causes multiple instances of The Gimp to open. I am sure the |>list can go on. | | | So all applications should support finding an instance of themselves and | adding the passed file as a new document rather than launching a new | copy of the program? What if that isn't what the user wants? At least programs that support multiple document interfaces should support this feature. This is especially true for web browsers and e-mail clients. Getting Firefox to open links in a new browser window rather than a new instance still involves (writing a script to) calling "mozilla-firefox-xremote-client" with very confusing options. While the Debian package contains a script that does this automatically, it still looks like a quick hack rather than a well-thought-out system. And while I take back part of what I said about The Gimp, since I found "gimp2.0-remote" which will open everything in a new instance, it just goes to show that there is no unified interface for it. A good system would allow the user to select whether or not to open a new instance. I realize that certain programs that support "projects" such as Quanta also prefer to open a new instance, but at least the KDE "DCOP Registration" allows the user to select between "multiple instances" and "single instance". A system-wide interface/standard would be nice. | | |>The point is that icons can be turned off, one can place a shortcut bar |>at the top of the screen with configurable keyboard shortcuts, there is |>Klipper for the "global clipboard", and some distributions already ship |>with a graphical bootup screen. Keyboard shortcuts are also |>configurable, and a tab-based window manager can also be developed on |>top of the current infrastructure. |> |>The real problem lies in the _system-wide_ contact list, _universal_ |>application drawers, and other _system-wide_ features. If all |>applications exported meta-data such as supported file types, |>description, interface, etc. through a DCOP-like interface, it would |>possible to create a global "recent documents" list that can be filtered |>for each specific application (if I understand your ideas right). As for |>keyboard shortcuts, we need a real UI designer to sit down and draw up a |>set of specifications, and for both KDE and GNOME people to follow it. | | | And in which language should the keyboard shortcuts make sense? That is actually a good question. Then again, shortcuts already don't make sense in any language; why is "cut" Ctrl-x and "paste" Ctrl-v. Perhaps it would be possible to make the shortcuts different in different locales, especially with different keyboard layouts. But it has to be at least partially consistent with other operating systems; at least the universal open, save, copy, paste, cut, quit commands should follow the current conventions (where the commands make sense). | | |>Unfortunately non of this will happen with the current mind-set of |>choice = 10 different email clients, unless all of those ten project |>leaders will agree on the same set of keyboard shortcuts and APIs. A |>unification of QT and GTK2, with a good wxWindows interface would go a |>long way. It would also free up a ton of developers to work on other |>(although perhaps less interesting problems). | | | Similar problem. What if they have different features, how do you make | keyboard shortcuts make sense for all features for all programs in all | languages? I was talking more about keeping the basic shortcuts consistent, although it's already pretty good. I wasn't even focusing on keyboard shortcuts in my last message; I just picked it as a (bad) example. I would just personally find such a guide very useful when/if I write a program with a GUI. As for the multi-lingual issue, I would think that most users would prefer a consistent vs. culturally correct shortcuts. For the Qwerty keyboards it would probably follow the more or less "established" conventions (Ctrl-o, Ctrl-s, Ctrl-c, Ctrl-v), etc. Perhaps a system-wide keyboard shortcut scheme could be installed to suit the user's needs. Again, you raise a very good point. |>Another good feature would be a global CVS-like system built into the |>implementation-independent filesystem code, which would keep track of |>which applications opened each file and a Changelog of the application's |>actions. For example, if you create an SVG in Sodipodi and then touch it |>up in The Gimp and convert to a PNG, you could go back, make a change to |>the SVG in Sodipodi, and The Gimp will know how to re-apply your |>touch-ups to update the final PNG. | | | Part of what I have always liked about unix/linux systems is that each | tool tends to do one thing, but does it very very well. Integration of | too many features and tieing programs directly together tends to add | feature creep, introduce complexities to the coding and usually a ton | more bugs. I want simple programs that do their particular job well, | and if you can control them entirely from commandline/script then it's | perfect since I can simply script those steps I want the gimp to do to | the sodipodi file and repeat it on any input file (or input file change) | that I want, which is to me MUCH better than having the programs talk to | each other and discuss changes and such. It sounds like you want to do | between applications what current high end CAD systems do internally for | their geometry data (everything is a tree structure of dependant | variables, and relative specifications where if you change the size of | something, everything made dependant on that size will update). Very | complex to implement well, and doing it between applications sounds even | more tricky and probably not worthwhile. I absolutaly agree with you about the power of simple Bash scripts and the complexity of such a system, but in my experience Bash intimidates many people (including myself), and thus makes this functionality illusive. I find it sad that most KDE applications can not be controlled directly with command-line arguments (asides from basic KDE/QT/X options). I was thinking more of unifying the various scripting engines that many applications already (Gimp's LISP interpreter, KDE's DCOP, for example), and _allow_ (not force) programs to store an application-dependant changelog with the files without altering the file format. This would maintain compatibility, while allowing an average user to access at least a part of the power available through shell scripts. I think graphic artists would be especially interested in the ability to at least partially automate their workflow without having to learn bash or even look at a command line. I hope that clarifies my ideas somewhat. I am just trying to be constructive. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBdDemRreNkzrRRLQRArP+AJ4g0WloNVRX+tsoIe2FGdfWostCMgCfTMP9 16U+HszF/H0QoQShwA/68oM= =uINS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 22:14:56 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:14:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: spam deluge: who uses what ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks to all who answered. I installed bogofilter after looking at a few of the options others suggested, and it works so far (postfix->procmail->bogofilter). I used a ~750 spam message file that I've been collecting for some time. bogofilter was a relatively small download (600k vs 20M for SpamAssasin and crm114 and other such). Installation was painless after I got BerkeleyDB and set up the procmailrc using the example given in the bogofilter manpage. I trained the bogofilter once by feeding it the entire spam mailbox file and several 'good' mailbox files totaling several megabytes. It was very fast (a few seconds) learning these files. I understand that it would have taken much longer with Perl based tools, from the speed comparisons on the web. The words.db file is ~7M. Operation is near instant (I cannot feel a slowdown in mail delivery). The current setup (from the manpage) takes care of the bogofilter training by itself (I only need to manually resubmit messages when it fails). I have already seen two 'good' messages pass and one spam caught. So far, so good. Is there a rule based tool or wizard to set up procmail rules with white and blacklists and such ? thanks to all, Peter On Mon, 18 Oct 2004, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Hi all, > > The time has come to raise my walls against spam again. I am considering > bogofilter. I have looked at other options, and this looks good for my setup. > What do others use (spam filter on home server/home workstation under linux). > > thanks, > > Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 22:33:39 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:33:39 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <417437AA.2090704-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171E0F0.2010700@truxtar.com> <20041018163954.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <417437AA.2090704@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20041018183339.232e6f30.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Mon, 18 Oct 2004 17:37:46 -0400 Anton Markov disseminated the following: > Getting Firefox to open links in a new browser window rather than a new > instance still involves (writing a script to) calling > "mozilla-firefox-xremote-client" what? Never had that problem here...I've regularly got 5 or 6 instances of Firefox grouped, never needed a script. Must be the WM ;-) -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:30:42 up 75 days, 18:20, 7 users, load average: 1.18, 1.31, 1.33 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone." -- John Maynard Keynes -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 22:33:26 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 18:33:26 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <417437AA.2090704-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <4171E0F0.2010700@truxtar.com> <20041018163954.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <417437AA.2090704@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <417444B6.5070006@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Anton Markov wrote: | | |>Another good feature would be a global CVS-like system built into the | |>implementation-independent filesystem code, which would keep track of | |>which applications opened each file and a Changelog of the application's | |>actions. For example, if you create an SVG in Sodipodi and then touch it | |>up in The Gimp and convert to a PNG, you could go back, make a change to | |>the SVG in Sodipodi, and The Gimp will know how to re-apply your | |>touch-ups to update the final PNG. Just to clarify my ideas some more, I am talking about a way of storing meta data independent of the file format, and maybe even recording all changes to it. Different programs can add their own meta data tags as/if the programmer sees fit. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBdES1RreNkzrRRLQRAh4mAJsGwdbTZmK/q1tC/t7QdXhzxsuGPgCgmUGy w2MP6JWpm+UkqIz2cMLC6lM= =uMXR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 18 23:33:41 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 19:33:41 -0400 Subject: Real time sports viewers Message-ID: <1098142421.4377.1.camel@neko.afraid.org> I really like 'watching' sports on Yahoo's game channel. Maddeningly, it doesn't work on Linux/Gecko. Can any one recommend a similar app for Linux? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 01:51:59 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 21:51:59 -0400 Subject: Debian and Groupware Message-ID: <20041019015159.GA7729@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I've been trying to get some groupware packages to work on my home server, and so far I've met with zero success. I'm using Debian testing, and followed the destructions for both kronolith (which is Horde based) and phpgroupware, and *neither* one works at all. I'm sure I'm doing something wrong, or my system is set up funny (giggle) or something, but I am unsure what to try. Has anyone set either of these packages up, and if they worked are their any gotchas I should know about? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 02:02:28 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:02:28 -0400 Subject: Debian and Groupware In-Reply-To: <20041019015159.GA7729-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019015159.GA7729@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1098151349.4377.26.camel@neko.afraid.org> I have set up kronolith, but have since unfortunately wiped out my mysql config by mistake. The problem that I had with the install is that the instructions are very unclear and the install scripts are incorrect. It has been a while since I set up the app, but the key is in the install scripts. They are missing key table creation lines and table modification lines. Having a look at the scripts and using google you should be able to get things up and running. On Mon, 2004-10-18 at 21:51 -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I've been trying to get some groupware packages to work on my home > server, and so far I've met with zero success. I'm using Debian > testing, and followed the destructions for both kronolith (which is > Horde based) and phpgroupware, and *neither* one works at all. I'm sure > I'm doing something wrong, or my system is set up funny (giggle) or > something, but I am unsure what to try. Has anyone set either of these > packages up, and if they worked are their any gotchas I should know > about? Thanks. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 02:12:03 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:12:03 -0400 Subject: Debian and Groupware In-Reply-To: <20041019015159.GA7729-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019015159.GA7729@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <417477F3.9030701@detachednetworks.ca> William O'Higgins wrote: >I've been trying to get some groupware packages to work on my home >server, and so far I've met with zero success. I'm using Debian >testing, and followed the destructions for both kronolith (which is >Horde based) and phpgroupware, and *neither* one works at all. I'm sure >I'm doing something wrong, or my system is set up funny (giggle) or >something, but I am unsure what to try. Has anyone set either of these >packages up, and if they worked are their any gotchas I should know >about? Thanks. > > Open-Xchange http://mirror.open-xchange.org/ox/EN/community/ Step-by-step howto on debian sarge. http://gpl.netixia.com/openxchange/openxchange-sarge-howto.html Works like a charm. -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 02:35:08 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 22:35:08 -0400 Subject: Sympatico getting real slow? Message-ID: <20041018223508.781fc6ed.joehill@sympatico.ca> I've been putting off ditching Sympatico, but I'm curious, are other Sympatico subscribers noticing a severe slowdown/timeouts recently? I don't relish having to change all my e-mail subscriptions, but I'm thinkin' it's time to call Ralph. -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 22:32:32 up 75 days, 22:21, 8 users, load average: 0.47, 0.41, 0.31 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "...neoliberal globalisation is socially and politically suicidal. In 25 years, the ratio between average income in the advanced countries and the rest of the world has more than doubled, from 10.7 to 23.3 - the steepest increase in history." -- Alan Freeman, Guardian, Oct. 12 2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 03:03:45 2004 From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 18 Oct 2004 23:03:45 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow Message-ID: <41748411.1040403@sympatico.ca> Sympatico's service was actually O.k. for quite a while, but since their link up with Microsoft service has been atrocious. I too will be switching to Istop in the very near future. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 05:27:40 2004 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 01:27:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Carpool website In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041019052740.48443.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> All, I just create a www.gtacarpool.com website and hope this website can be used or linked by tlug for some people who may need carpool for our regular meeting. It's total free and based on open soure software. Because I am new on the web design, Any feedback is welcome! Thanks! Hui -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 10:49:20 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 06:49:20 -0400 Subject: Carpool website In-Reply-To: <20041019052740.48443.qmail-+Hr5lMjvZOWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019052740.48443.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4174F130.80901@sympatico.ca> hui xu wrote: > > Because I am new on the web design, Any feedback is > welcome! I have to ask -- what does your site do that and don't? I'd loses the blue text on a blue background, and the "last modified: April 1, 2004" might make some people suspicious. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 13:09:36 2004 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:09:36 -0400 Subject: OT: PC repair tech in Ottawa Message-ID: <41751210.40001@mineallmeyn.com> Hi all, Just shipped an old pc of mine to a friend in Ottawa and along the way something got borked and now it won't post. Anyone know of (or is a) pc tech that could look it over (probably a screw loose shorting board, etc) and hopefully fix it, somewhere in the downtownish nbhd of Ottawa? Thanks, Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 13:36:26 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:36:26 -0400 Subject: Debian and Groupware In-Reply-To: <20041019015159.GA7729-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019015159.GA7729@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20041019133626.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 09:51:59PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I've been trying to get some groupware packages to work on my home > server, and so far I've met with zero success. I'm using Debian > testing, and followed the destructions for both kronolith (which is > Horde based) and phpgroupware, and *neither* one works at all. I'm sure > I'm doing something wrong, or my system is set up funny (giggle) or > something, but I am unsure what to try. Has anyone set either of these > packages up, and if they worked are their any gotchas I should know > about? Thanks. I gave up on PHPgroupware a few years ago, since although it looks promising, the developers appear to be so incompetent that it will probably never have a working release. For example: They released a -rc1 relased following a beta. Someone found an obvious bug (as in there was a missing quote in the php code so it didn't even parse correctly). How this made it into the code base without even minimal 'does it run' testing is beyond me. It gets worse though. Someone tries it, finds the bug, reports it to the bug tracking system, and a developer goes and fixes it in cvs in the development branch. Does he fix it in the rc branh for the next relase? No of course not. So when they then go 'no more bugs reported, and all reported bugs are closed' they release the code from the to be released branch in cvs complete with every bug reported during the rc and beta as far as I could tell. That was it for me. It is a pain to install, many features often don't work fully, and the stupid syntax errors and off by one errors and other simple bugs are just enough to drive you nuts. No more phpgroupware for me. Maybe some day they will get some competent developers to help or at least a person able to manage the releases and bugs so they can start doing useful work. I sure hope it happens since it does look promising. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 13:47:06 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 09:47:06 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow Message-ID: The speed goes down beteween 9 - 12pm every day. I am on Ultra but I got 5K during this time slot. I called sympatico. Having unable to boost my speed, tech support decided to replace my SS5200 E240 with a new one, SS5200 E242. That didn't solve the problem. I thought only cable Internet access has this issue. -----Original Message----- From: John McGregor [mailto:mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org] Sent: October 18, 2004 11:04 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Re: Sympatico slow Sympatico's service was actually O.k. for quite a while, but since their link up with Microsoft service has been atrocious. I too will be switching to Istop in the very near future. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:417483b5209681044818273! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 14:09:34 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:09:34 -0400 Subject: OT: PC repair tech in Ottawa In-Reply-To: <41751210.40001-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <41751210.40001@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <1098194974.20999.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 09:09, Oliver Meyn wrote: > Hi all, > > Just shipped an old pc of mine to a friend in Ottawa and along the way > something got borked and now it won't post. Anyone know of (or is a) pc > tech that could look it over (probably a screw loose shorting board, > etc) and hopefully fix it, somewhere in the downtownish nbhd of Ottawa? > > Thanks, > Oliver My parents have used the guys at GamePower ( http://gamepowersys.com ) for a few years and are quite happy with them. -Leigh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 14:12:34 2004 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:12:34 -0400 Subject: OT: PC repair tech in Ottawa In-Reply-To: <1098194974.20999.1.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <41751210.40001@mineallmeyn.com> <1098194974.20999.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <417520D2.3030503@mineallmeyn.com> Leigh Honeywell wrote: > > My parents have used the guys at GamePower ( http://gamepowersys.com ) > for a few years and are quite happy with them. > These guys appear to be just the kind of thing I was imagining - thanks! Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 14:29:56 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:29:56 -0400 Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System Message-ID: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> What are some good open source doc retrieval systems? 10k to 100k documents text/graphics LAN and internet access? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 15:39:49 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:39:49 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041019153949.GA25774@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:47:06AM -0400, Phillip Qin wrote: > The speed goes down beteween 9 - 12pm every day. I am on Ultra but I got 5K > during this time slot. I called sympatico. Having unable to boost my speed, > tech support decided to replace my SS5200 E240 with a new one, SS5200 E242. > That didn't solve the problem. I thought only cable Internet access has this > issue. Any Internet connection can have this problem - there are multiple connections between your computer and "the Internet". Cable can have bottlenecks in your local neighbourhood - the local cable drop is an Ethernet network that can be filled up if people near to you are using the connection at the same time; while DSL uses a dedicated line from your home so that specific segment cannot get loaded down by any activity other than your own. However, once your connection has proceeded from your local neighbourhood to the ISP's site, there are still lots of possibilities for bottlenecks either within the ISP site (e.g. there are too many customers on the same routing segment or going through a particular piece of hardware) or at the boundary to the outside world (if the total bandwidth of the ISP's connection to the outside world is less than the combined bandwidth of all their customers access requests, things slow down). Making sure that the bandwidth capacity is large enough for most usage and not too bad for the worst peaks of usage is necessary for good customer relations; but it is a dynamic problem since those customers can change their usage patterns both in the short term or over the long term. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 15:16:14 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 11:16:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > -----Original Message----- > From: John McGregor [mailto:mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org] > Sent: October 18, 2004 11:04 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Re: Sympatico slow > > Sympatico's service was actually O.k. for quite a while, but since their > link up with Microsoft service has been atrocious. I too will be > switching to Istop in the very near future. I'm on Sympatico DSL, and I was uploading and downloading last night (in the specified 9-12pm time slot mentioned previously) and was getting 1Mb/sec up and 3Mb/sec down. Since I upgraded my old modem, the speed's been pretty consistent, and the link supports several computers behind a NetGear router without any problems. I'm located in East York, near Mortimer and Pape, in case the location makes any difference, about 1km from the C.O. at Donlands and O'Connor. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 17:29:11 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 10:29:11 -0700 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <640161AD-21F4-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 16-Oct-04, at 13:55, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Good day! > Many people have talked about the next generation of graphical user > interfaces. Mac OS X was supposed to represent a radical departure > from the desktop metaphor; instead, the underlying technology became > its distinguishing feature. Microsoft's Longhorn is supposed to be > "next generation" -- instead, it's looking like 'more of the same.' I commend your enthusiasm -- don't lose that ;-) Experience has lead me not to write things like "Call to arms!" in email to mailing lists . > Meanwhile, the Linux platform is clamouring for the tantalizing goal > of "ease of use", that key to final acceptance on the desktop. We're > not there yet, and many doubt that the current solutions -- Gnome and > KDE -- have what it takes to get us there. This problem being a compelling advantage ? I have also considered this topic at some length , as I know many computer users , particularly OSS users have . You are quite mistaken that no one has proposed alternate ways to interact in an operating environment . Intuitively , you do realize that ? (Various degrees of) implementation also exist . Offhand , one example is (not active) project Dashboard . I agree that Linux may eventually need such a solution , but what I think it needs today is integration of the desktop experience . Anton Markov , Chris Browne , and others present a number of topics in their responses to this subject. Of course , if you can provide a revolution then you also meet the needs . Revolution is not something that I know much about , nor have many of humans successes been revolutions , and not Linux in many eyes including I believe Mr. Torvalds . Sure , there are revolutions on small scales , but us short lived folk often neglect the value of doing things slowly and safely . > I have begun a project called Dark Sun Linux. It's goal is to create a > new GUI for the Linux desktop. I have looked at the project pages . Very thoughtful and detailed . > There's really only one problem: it doesn't exist yet. Worse, I'm not > a developer, so I can't make it happen alone. I'm just a publisher > trained in information architecture, and the most I can code is PHP. > But I can manage a software project. I have the vision, and I've got > the ideas. I need help! Describing / linking your software project management experience may encourage people to join . Not to discourage you , only to provide my experience , and to reflect what many OSS contributors describe , but vision matters less than feet, particularly when starting a project . It looks like you may have the feet , and be looking for more , but you may need to spend quite a bit more effort presenting your vision, clarifying (/shrinking) the goals, before leaders will join you . Best of luck , Lloyd D Budd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 17:43:55 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:43:55 -0400 Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System In-Reply-To: <417524E4.2060108-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> Message-ID: <20041019174355.GA1038@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:29:56AM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > > What are some good open source doc retrieval systems? > 10k to 100k documents > text/graphics > LAN and internet access? Filesystem. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 19:18:37 2004 From: allroy10-Arjm76Ya4q7k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Vince Fry) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:18:37 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <41703437.2090607-JoPBQnXCRdTQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> Message-ID: <20041019151837.55e86649@nerdlinger> Along these lines, I just upgraded to a new Blackberry, and have been going crazy trying to find a solution to synch it without resorting to 'Doze. Has anyone come across something to accomplish this? Thanks! -- Vince Fry The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." So I installed LINUX On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 16:33:59 -0400 Robert Turcott wrote: > Hi, > > I need to get my palm (treo 600) synching with a usb connection. I have > struggled with it before and have got it part way there but really don't > want to go through it from scratch again. I had RH8.0 pretty well set > up for a desktop at home but essentially reverted back to winXP and one > of the main reasons is Palm synching. I have a new install of FC3-test3 > for testing with our Progress DB server and would like to see if I can > get the desktop setup to the point where I can finally switch (at home). > But I'm not going to go thru all that effort again if I can't get my > palm going. > > Gnome-pilot is installed and set up with default ports, but I belive I > need to link the usb port, to which my palm is connected, to /dev/pilot. > I don't remember a simple way to find that device. Also, anyone have > experience getting to point where you can actually do a hotsync install > of software (i.e. a .prc or .pdb file) and archiving? > Any help - or pointers to a CONSISE reference would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Rob. > > > -- > Robert Turcott > SW Developer/SysAdmin > Degama Systems Inc. > 416-493-0059 x105 > > > > -- > This mail from robt Certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 7.0.280 / Virus Database: 264.11.1 - Release Date: 10/15/2004 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Vince Fry The box said "Requires Windows 95 or better." So I installed LINUX -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 19:47:24 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:47:24 -0400 Subject: Palm synching. In-Reply-To: <20041019151837.55e86649@nerdlinger> References: <41703437.2090607@degama.com> <20041019151837.55e86649@nerdlinger> Message-ID: <20041019194724.GN8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 03:18:37PM -0400, Vince Fry wrote: > Along these lines, I just upgraded to a new Blackberry, and have been > going crazy trying to find a solution to synch it without resorting to > 'Doze. Has anyone come across something to accomplish this? Well if you go to www.blackberry.com and ask for linux in the technical FAQs the answer to the question "Is the blackberry supported with Linux" is simply "No". There are SDKs for it free too, but of course they are for writing applications not for communicating with it, It has taken RIM years to start having a mail server that would even talk to anything other than MS Exchange, and so far getting sync support on the Mac appears to require buying a $139US program to do it from a 3rd party. They are anything but open about their protocols it would seem, while being very open with application development info for developers. It seems so far the supported PDA on Linux is still PalmOS based, or perhaps one of the Linux based ones (not sure). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 19:49:55 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:49:55 -0400 Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System--Firewalls? Firewalls? We dont need no stinkin Firewalls!!! In-Reply-To: <20041019174355.GA1038-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> <20041019174355.GA1038@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <41756FE3.7020900@knet.ca> Filesystem? Will says! Let SMB directory access to the root level with HTML via the internet? providing full access of the entire filesystem to the world. Now, why didnt I think of that. Firewalls? Firewalls? We dont need no stinkin Firewalls!!! Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead! Aye Capt! William Park wrote: >On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:29:56AM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > > >>What are some good open source doc retrieval systems? >>10k to 100k documents >>text/graphics >>LAN and internet access? >> >> > >Filesystem. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 20:02:52 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:02:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System--Firewalls? Firewalls? We dont need no stinkin Firewalls!!! In-Reply-To: <41756FE3.7020900-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> <20041019174355.GA1038@node1.opengeometry.net> <41756FE3.7020900@knet.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Teddy Mills wrote: > Filesystem? Will says! > > Let SMB directory access to the root level with HTML via the internet? > providing full access of the entire filesystem to the world. > Now, why didnt I think of that. Obviously, you just did. But that's surely not what William was thinking, nor how I understood his terse suggestion. He said nothing about full access. Whatever method is used to export the directory tree can limit the access to a portion of the filesystem. If the filesystem and the many tools that are included with any Linux distribution (web, ftp, samba, ssh, etc.) are not sufficient, then we need to know what additional features are desired before any suggestions can be made. > Firewalls? Firewalls? We dont need no stinkin Firewalls!!! In many instances, no you don't. > Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead! > Aye Capt! > > > William Park wrote: > >> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:29:56AM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: >> >> >>> What are some good open source doc retrieval systems? >>> 10k to 100k documents >>> text/graphics >>> LAN and internet access? >>> >>> >> >> Filesystem. >> >> >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 21:02:52 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:02:52 -0400 Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System In-Reply-To: <417524E4.2060108-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> Message-ID: <1098219772.417580fca66c0@www.almatau.com> If you need some kind of on-line document repository, Owl Intranet Knowledgebase is a great choice: http://sourceforge.net/projects/owl Quoting Teddy Mills : > > What are some good open source doc retrieval systems? > 10k to 100k documents > text/graphics > LAN and internet access? > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 22:03:43 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:03:43 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41758F3F.50104@rogers.com> > Many people have talked about the next generation of graphical user > interfaces. Mac OS X was supposed to represent a radical departure > from the desktop metaphor; instead, the underlying technology became > its distinguishing feature. Microsoft's Longhorn is supposed to be > "next generation" -- instead, it's looking like 'more of the same.' I think, perhaps, that you should investigate putting your effort into something more useful. The world has enough GUIs and probably doesn't need anymore; the reason change isn't there as you see it is that things work quite well as they are. Perhaps dovetail yourself into KDE so that you can offer additonal functionality without needing to reinvent the wheel. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 22:11:53 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:11:53 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> > I thought only cable Internet access has this issue. Nope, any of use that buy from greedy corporations who run their budgets as close to the wire, gouging for cash without screwing the customer so bad that too many will leave, will suffer from this problem. Technology has nothing to do with it, it's the assholes that run the companies that do. And the assholes-by-proxy, the shareholders, who insist on having us screwed so that they can reap as phat returns as possible. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 23:08:29 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:08:29 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <41759129.60600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:11:53 -0400 Byron L. Sonne disseminated the following: > > I thought only cable Internet access has this issue. > > Nope, any of use that buy from greedy corporations who run their budgets > as close to the wire, gouging for cash without screwing the customer so > bad that too many will leave, will suffer from this problem. > > Technology has nothing to do with it, it's the assholes that run the > companies that do. And the assholes-by-proxy, the shareholders, who > insist on having us screwed so that they can reap as phat returns as > possible. Careful, yer starting to sound like me ;-) Anyhow, I just spoke with a supervisor at Symcraptico and let them know that they had made a *huge* mistake, that up until their hookup with MS I had very little to complain about, and that I would be initiating a switch to another ISP within 24 hours. Now I just have to wait for the fscking IStop web page to load... Anything anyone can tell me about what I should have ready for the switch? I already have an Alcatel Speed Touch modem and a router that manages my internet connection, should be pretty seamless, no? -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 19:02:06 up 76 days, 18:51, 8 users, load average: 0.47, 0.21, 0.07 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people" -- Noam Chomsky -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 19 23:12:41 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:12:41 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <41748411.1040403-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41748411.1040403@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200410191912.41668.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 18 October 2004 23:03, John McGregor wrote: > Sympatico's service was actually O.k. for quite a while, but since their > link up with Microsoft service has been atrocious. I too will be > switching to Istop in the very near future. Hmmm, last night on Sympatico (my mothers computer): Fetched 6600kB in 21s (301kB/s) Same time, my computer (istop): Fetched 6600kB in 57s (114kB/s) When 3MB service first came available I was getting more than 300KB/sec. I asked on TLUG a bit over a month ago whether others were seeing the slowdown and was told by Ralph (Istop owner) that the slowdown was due to the hordes going back to school. Now I am not so sure ... I'm very happy with istop, decent performance, good price and not anal about a person running servers. If raw speed is a concern then perhaps istop isn't the answer ... are other istop customers still seeing this slowdown? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 00:05:08 2004 From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:05:08 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow Message-ID: <4175ABB4.4040102@sympatico.ca> The FTP download speeds that I have been getting are fairly respectable, however lately from about 8:30pm - 11:00pm it can take as much as 4 minutes ( I timed it) to transmit a plain text email with no attachments. My dail up roaming account from my employer is faster. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 00:32:46 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:32:46 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <4175ABB4.4040102-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4175ABB4.4040102@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041019203246.72b1a384.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:05:08 -0400 John McGregor disseminated the following: > lately from about 8:30pm - 11:00pm it can take as much as 4 > minutes ( I timed it) to transmit a plain text email with no > attachments. Yeah, same here, and even some timeouts connecting to their mail server. To get around that I just configured Postfix to relay through Sympatico's smtp server (instead of direct from my mail client), and I never got any timeouts from Postfix, all mail went through, no delays, and no watching the 'sending' dialogue in Sylpheed for eons. -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 20:24:34 up 76 days, 20:14, 8 users, load average: 0.02, 0.20, 0.17 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?" --Mahatma Gandhi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 00:35:32 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:35:32 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <200410191912.41668.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <41748411.1040403@sympatico.ca> <200410191912.41668.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20041019203532.71fed80e.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 19:12:41 -0400 Fraser Campbell disseminated the following: > > Sympatico's service was actually O.k. for quite a while, but since their > > link up with Microsoft service has been atrocious. I too will be > > switching to Istop in the very near future. > > Hmmm, last night on Sympatico (my mothers computer): > > Fetched 6600kB in 21s (301kB/s) > > Same time, my computer (istop): > > Fetched 6600kB in 57s (114kB/s) As someone pointed out, location may be a factor. I'm in the west end, around East Mall and Dundas, anyone else in this area with some input? -- JoeHill RLU / #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 20:33:57 up 76 days, 20:23, 8 users, load average: 0.32, 0.17, 0.14 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Contrary to Bush's claim that his regime change in Iraq has produced a more stable Middle East, his actions have opened a hornet's nest of death and destruction." -- Marjorie Cohn, Thomas Jefferson School of Law -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 00:42:44 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:42:44 -0400 Subject: Sympatico and VPN Message-ID: <1098232964.4175b4841b432@www.almatau.com> Hi, We have a weird problem with Sympatico too. I found that Sympatico used to block VPN ports, because "VPN is normally a business thing and they don't want business stuff ran on residental lines". Now they say they do not really block any ports except for ports with known vulnerabilities like blaster worm (well, they don't provide with a list of ports being blocked). Anyway, the problem is that at least two Sympatico customers have problems with their client software, which sends queries to MS SQL+Access database . If amount of transferred data is small, it works. But with normal load MS SQL Query generates error: "ODBC source: 172.16.1.2\VIDATABASE - working OK UID - User Pass - ****** Microsoft Acces, linked tables, select list of available tables, tables imported to Access database - working OK Open tables - error, ODBC call failed" The same problem was replicated by us on another Sympatico line. It used to work without any problem. Maybe someone experienced similar issues and found how to overcome it? Or Sympatico just found a way to break VPN connections without blocking ports? Thanks, Ilya. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 00:47:34 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:47:34 -0400 Subject: Sympatico and VPN In-Reply-To: <1098232964.4175b4841b432-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1098232964.4175b4841b432@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <4175B5A6.6080200@almatau.com> Quoting Ilya Palagin : ... > The same problem was replicated by us on another Sympatico line. It used to > work without any problem. Maybe someone experienced similar issues and found > how to overcome it? Or Sympatico just found a way to break VPN connections > without blocking ports? Of course, this question is in communications context, it has nothing to do with that MS garbage :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 01:08:10 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:08:10 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <640161AD-21F4-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <640161AD-21F4-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b204101918085c66de4c@mail.gmail.com> > I commend your enthusiasm -- don't lose that ;-) > > I agree that Linux may eventually need such a solution , > but what I think it needs today is integration of the desktop > experience . Anton Markov , Chris Browne , and others > present a number of topics in their responses to this subject. > Of course , if you can provide a revolution then you also meet > the needs . Revolution is not something that I know much > about , nor have many of humans successes been revolutions , > and not Linux in many eyes including I believe Mr. Torvalds . > Sure , there are revolutions on small scales , but us short lived > folk often neglect the value of doing things slowly and safely . > > Not to discourage you , only to provide my experience , and to reflect > what many OSS contributors describe , but vision matters less than feet, > particularly when starting a project . > > It looks like you may have the feet , and be looking for more , but you > may need to spend quite a bit more effort presenting your vision, > clarifying (/shrinking) the goals, before leaders will join you . Thanks Lloyd for taking the time to write back with a very well-thought out response. I think it puts the cap on my efforts to create something new, at least through this list. :-( To all that responded, there's probably not one of you for whom I have a major disagreement; much of your responses were valid to me and made sense. However, I am proposing _my_ vision, not yours, and I was hoping that someone among you would be interested enough to join up with me and help make it -- or something like it -- a reality. To those who say that what we have is fine, or that we don't need another GUI, I do disagree. What we have now is "more of the same", and not compelling enough to make people switch. The heart of my idea is to provide something new and different. It won't dovetail nicely with KDE, and it's certainly not additional functionality. This is what infuriates me about the whole open source movement; ultimately, it's a developer's-only club. At the end of the day, it's the itch-scratching programmers who call the shots, and if anyone else has an idea, it's invalid because they can't code. Yes, I speak from former experience attempting to participate in OSS projects. That sounds like an excellent new thread for this list. So if I truly believe in this idea of mine, it seems the solution is to learn to program and do it myself. I'll write back in five years with my results. Cheers, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 01:12:41 2004 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:12:41 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <200410191912.41668.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <41748411.1040403@sympatico.ca> <200410191912.41668.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200410192112.49916.jab@muskokatech.ca> I don't get nearly the speed I used to on most sites. I actually was getting close to calling about it, (thinking that my line had gone bad) but then found that I still got 300K/s at a few sites. Its somewhat irritating, but then the good tech support and ability to run servers keeps me around. On Tuesday 19 October 2004 19:12, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Monday 18 October 2004 23:03, John McGregor wrote: > > Sympatico's service was actually O.k. for quite a while, but since their > > link up with Microsoft service has been atrocious. I too will be > > switching to Istop in the very near future. > > Hmmm, last night on Sympatico (my mothers computer): > > Fetched 6600kB in 21s (301kB/s) > > Same time, my computer (istop): > > Fetched 6600kB in 57s (114kB/s) > > When 3MB service first came available I was getting more than 300KB/sec. I > asked on TLUG a bit over a month ago whether others were seeing the > slowdown and was told by Ralph (Istop owner) that the slowdown was due to > the hordes going back to school. Now I am not so sure ... > > I'm very happy with istop, decent performance, good price and not anal > about a person running servers. If raw speed is a concern then perhaps > istop isn't the answer ... are other istop customers still seeing this > slowdown? -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A 0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 01:19:06 2004 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:19:06 -0400 Subject: Sympatico getting real slow? In-Reply-To: <20041018223508.781fc6ed.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041018223508.781fc6ed.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20041019211239.02aff9e0@mail.the-wire.com> I've seen a real slowdown at Sympatico in the (at least) last two weeks. Prior to that I was getting steady 190 KB/sec downloads any time in a 24 hour period. These days it is around 130 KB/sec, and many afternoons is around 60 KB/sec. This works to restore the speed back to 190 KB/sec, but it's a pain, and the speed often drops AGAIN 15 minutes later: - disconnect - power cycle the modem - reconnect Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 01:38:14 2004 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:38:14 -0400 Subject: router/firewall hardware advice Message-ID: Does any one have any suggestions for a newby on choice of router for a small (3 pcs) home network with a fixed IP connection? If I configure a linux box as a router does it need two NIC cards? Does it have to be (should it be) a dedicated router? Are there good linux-friendly hub type routers that can be flexibly configured? How are CD/floppy based routers? Currently I have an SMC router but it doesn't seem to work too well with fixed ip (or with linux -- I could only get to the interface using windows explorer.) Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 02:39:52 2004 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:39:52 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse Message-ID: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> Hello: I'm running Suse 8.2 and I'm trying to figure out how I can configure X so that until I plug in my USB mouse it uses the default touchpad. Currently I have to go into yast and manually switch it. Is there anyway to have the usb mouse detected automatically and fall back to the touchpad if it isn't plugged in? thanks -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 02:12:30 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:12:30 -0400 Subject: router/firewall hardware advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041019221230.6e5ac489.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:38:14 -0400 Alex Maynard disseminated the following: > Does any one have any suggestions for a newby on choice of router for > a small (3 pcs) home network with a fixed IP connection? > > If I configure a linux box as a router does it need two NIC cards? Yes. > Does it have to be (should it be) a dedicated router? No, it could do things like act as a print or file server as well, though a dedicated firewall is always the best practice. > Are there good linux-friendly hub type routers that can be flexibly > configured? How are CD/floppy based routers? I use this one (you just need a floppy drive and two NIC's) http://freshmeat.net/projects/bbiagent/ There's also: http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ If you can boot from a CD and have a HD with minimal space, this is the king: http://www.smoothwall.org/ > Currently I have an SMC router but it doesn't seem to work too well with > fixed ip (or with linux -- I could only get to the interface using windows > explorer.) Maybe I'm doing something wrong? I've had a much better time with Linksys routers, not *positive* they will work with non-IE browsers though. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 22:04:36 up 76 days, 21:54, 8 users, load average: 1.41, 1.52, 1.44 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Government officials who glorify other people's patriotic deaths are rarely eager to partake of such glory themselves. Cases in point: Dick Cheney. George W. Bush." -- Norman Solomon, Truthout.org, Sept. 11 2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 02:40:59 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (JAMES KNOTT) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 22:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: router/firewall hardware advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041020024059.42592.qmail@web88007.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Alex Maynard wrote: > > Does any one have any suggestions for a newby on > choice of router for > a small (3 pcs) home network with a fixed IP > connection? > > If I configure a linux box as a router does it need > two NIC cards? Does > it have to be (should it be) a dedicated router? A router will need at least two NICs. It's best to not run anything un-necessary on a firewall/router, for security reasons. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 03:19:47 2004 From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:19:47 -0400 Subject: router/firewall hardware advice In-Reply-To: <20041019221230.6e5ac489.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019221230.6e5ac489.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019231722.02eb1670@pop1.sympatico.ca> At 10:12 PM 10/19/04, you wrote: >On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:38:14 -0400 >Alex Maynard disseminated the following: > >[snip] > >I've had a much better time with Linksys routers, not *positive* they will >work >with non-IE browsers though. I run Fedora on a laptop connected to the Net through a Linksys router. My browser is Opera. >-- >JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org >22:04:36 up 76 days, 21:54, 8 users, load average: 1.41, 1.52, 1.44 >+++++++++++++++++++++++++++ >"Government officials who glorify other people's patriotic deaths are rarely >eager to partake of such glory themselves. Cases in point: Dick Cheney. George >W. Bush." -- Norman Solomon, Truthout.org, Sept. 11 2004 >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml www3.sympatico.ca/echapin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 03:48:47 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:48:47 -0400 Subject: router/firewall hardware advice In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20041019231722.02eb1670-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019221230.6e5ac489.joehill@sympatico.ca> <6.1.2.0.2.20041019231722.02eb1670@pop1.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041019234847.1e7a1081.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 23:19:47 -0400 Elliott Chapin disseminated the following: > >I've had a much better time with Linksys routers, not *positive* they will > >work with non-IE browsers though. > > I run Fedora on a laptop connected to the Net through a Linksys router. My > browser is Opera. Good to know thanks! I just love those little blue boxes... -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 23:48:09 up 76 days, 23:37, 8 users, load average: 1.55, 1.36, 1.31 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged." -- Noam Chomsky -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 04:11:06 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 00:11:06 -0400 Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System In-Reply-To: <1098219772.417580fca66c0-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> <1098219772.417580fca66c0@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20041020041106.B21B24503@cbbrowne.com> > If you need some kind of on-line document repository, Owl Intranet > Knowledgebase is a great choice: > > http://sourceforge.net/projects/owl Another approach would be to install Wiki software such as TWiki, and upload documents into that. Indexing would be handled two ways: - Wikis generally have some "search" scheme; - You can build Wiki documents that provide indexes pointing to documents of interest At the office, we have a Zope install; it provides the two indexing mechanisms: a) You can do "text search" search throughout the set of documents checked in; b) Each document has to be placed _somewhere_ in a "tree" that tries to organize documents. I would like to see an "open source Documentum," where the idea would be thus: -> You "check in" documents perhaps including some metadata... -> A "spooler/archiver" process takes the documents, extracts whatever metadata is possible ("file" can give some useful data!) and then does two things: 1. Stashes the document somewhere, perhaps under an arbitrarily cryptic name; 2. Stores the metadata in a database of some sort to assist in searching/selecting documents. -- "cbbrowne","@","gmail.com" http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/advocacy.html How does the guy who drives the snowplow get to work in the mornings? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 05:29:53 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:29:53 -0400 Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System In-Reply-To: <20041020041106.B21B24503-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> <1098219772.417580fca66c0@www.almatau.com> <20041020041106.B21B24503@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <4175F7D1.9020804@almatau.com> Christopher Browne wrote: >>If you need some kind of on-line document repository, Owl Intranet >>Knowledgebase is a great choice: >> >>http://sourceforge.net/projects/owl > > > Another approach would be to install Wiki software such as TWiki, and > upload documents into that. > > Indexing would be handled two ways: > - Wikis generally have some "search" scheme; > - You can build Wiki documents that provide indexes pointing to > documents of interest > > At the office, we have a Zope install; it provides the two indexing > mechanisms: > a) You can do "text search" search throughout the set of documents > checked in; > b) Each document has to be placed _somewhere_ in a "tree" that tries > to organize documents. Isn't it the same approach? > > I would like to see an "open source Documentum," where the idea would be > thus: > -> You "check in" documents perhaps including some metadata... > > -> A "spooler/archiver" process takes the documents, extracts > whatever metadata is possible ("file" can give some useful data!) > and then does two things: > > 1. Stashes the document somewhere, perhaps under an arbitrarily > cryptic name; > > 2. Stores the metadata in a database of some sort to assist in > searching/selecting documents. This is almost what Owl is :-). It creates indexes for uploaded ASCII, Word and PDF documents, saving them either in MySQL database or as files. It allows to check in/check out documents while one is updating them. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 05:45:12 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 01:45:12 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <20041019203246.72b1a384.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4175ABB4.4040102@sympatico.ca> <20041019203246.72b1a384.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098251112.2909.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-19 at 20:32, JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 20:05:08 -0400 > John McGregor disseminated the following: > > > lately from about 8:30pm - 11:00pm it can take as much as 4 > > minutes ( I timed it) to transmit a plain text email with no > > attachments. > > Yeah, same here, and even some timeouts connecting to their mail server. To get > around that I just configured Postfix to relay through Sympatico's smtp > server (instead of direct from my mail client), and I never got any timeouts > from Postfix, all mail went through, no delays, and no watching the 'sending' > dialogue in Sylpheed for eons. Well, that explains my insane timeouts with FTP yesterday. Thought I was going nuts. I'm on Sympatico via the U of T megabit access (I log in with my library number instead of a b1 number) so mail is fine on utcc.utoronto.ca, but everything else has been mad slow these last few days. Time to go to TFnet, methinks. -Leigh -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 10:43:52 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:43:52 -0400 Subject: Learning about configure/makefiles ? Message-ID: <20041020104352.GA21459@m450> 4 years ago, all I knew was RPM. Today, I can... ./configure --with-this-that-and-the-other make make install but I still don't have a clue what's going on "under the hood". I get a ton of hits on Google for "makefile tutorial", but I probably want a book to refer to. Any recommendations? -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 11:10:48 2004 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:10:48 -0400 Subject: Learning about configure/makefiles ? In-Reply-To: <20041020104352.GA21459@m450> References: <20041020104352.GA21459@m450> Message-ID: <20041020071048.3b51dec9.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:43:52 -0400 "Walter Dnes" wrote: > 4 years ago, all I knew was RPM. Today, I can... > > ./configure --with-this-that-and-the-other > make > make install > > but I still don't have a clue what's going on "under the hood". I get a > ton of hits on Google for "makefile tutorial", but I probably want a > book to refer to. Any recommendations? These programming courses are free and cover this material http://www.icanprogram.com/nofeecourses.html Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 10:28:12 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System--Firewalls? Firewalls? We dont need no stinkin Firewalls!!! In-Reply-To: <41756FE3.7020900-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> <20041019174355.GA1038@node1.opengeometry.net> <41756FE3.7020900@knet.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Teddy Mills wrote: > Filesystem? Will says! > > Let SMB directory access to the root level with HTML via the internet? > providing full access of the entire filesystem to the world. > Now, why didnt I think of that. Why not ? Run the os from a cd image and leave the disks open to the world. It does not have to be 'root level' you can set up any level you wish. I have run a small server like this for years, ftp, smb, nfs, http, https all serve the same address space and the same files are accessible in all protocols. > Firewalls? Firewalls? We dont need no stinkin Firewalls!!! > Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead! > Aye Capt! Access control and routing are security and networking problems, respectively. An application needs to be aware of the system provided methods and use them, not implement its own unless necessary. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 10:39:09 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:39:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <200410192239.52193.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Chris Gow wrote: > Hello: > > I'm running Suse 8.2 and I'm trying to figure out how I can configure X so > that until I plug in my USB mouse it uses the default touchpad. Currently I > have to go into yast and manually switch it. Is there anyway to have the usb > mouse detected automatically and fall back to the touchpad if it isn't > plugged in? You can use 2 or more mice together. Edit the XF86Config file (/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 or similar). Make the section shown below resemble what I paste here: Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "XFree86 Configured" Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "USB Mouse" "CorePointer" InputDevice "PS/2 Mouse" "CorePointer" EndSection The touchpad will not be disabled, you can use both (yes, this is confusing). The /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 will be rewritten after each config run so keep a backup copy after you make everything work. Yast will typically refuse to modify files that you have changed so you may have to revert to the old version to make yast work on it again. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 10:40:45 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:40:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Open Source Document Retrieval System In-Reply-To: <20041020041106.B21B24503-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <417524E4.2060108@knet.ca> <1098219772.417580fca66c0@www.almatau.com> <20041020041106.B21B24503@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Christopher Browne wrote: >> If you need some kind of on-line document repository, Owl Intranet >> Knowledgebase is a great choice: >> >> http://sourceforge.net/projects/owl > > Another approach would be to install Wiki software such as TWiki, and > upload documents into that. And I forgot cvs as protocol (I am not using cvs currently). > Indexing would be handled two ways: > - Wikis generally have some "search" scheme; > - You can build Wiki documents that provide indexes pointing to > documents of interest Indexing is done with htdig here. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 10:34:04 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:34:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico and VPN In-Reply-To: <1098232964.4175b4841b432-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1098232964.4175b4841b432@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 19 Oct 2004, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Hi, > > We have a weird problem with Sympatico too. I found that Sympatico used to > block VPN ports, because "VPN is normally a business thing and they don't want > business stuff ran on residental lines". Now they say they do not really block > any ports except for ports with known vulnerabilities like blaster worm (well, > they don't provide with a list of ports being blocked). Anyway, the problem is > that at least two Sympatico customers have problems with their client software, > which sends queries to MS SQL+Access database . If amount of transferred data > is small, it works. But with normal load MS SQL Query generates error: > > "ODBC source: 172.16.1.2\VIDATABASE - working OK UID - User Pass - ****** > Microsoft Acces, linked tables, select list of available tables, tables > imported to Access database - working OK Open tables - error, ODBC call failed" > > The same problem was replicated by us on another Sympatico line. It used to > work without any problem. Maybe someone experienced similar issues and found > how to overcome it? Or Sympatico just found a way to break VPN connections > without blocking ports? You should sniff the transaction. You can do it with a laptop running linux plugged into the hub where the client is and tcpdump or something heavyer. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mike.kirk-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 11:22:12 2004 From: mike.kirk-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Mike Kirk) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 07:22:12 -0400 Subject: Sympatico getting real slow? References: <20041018223508.781fc6ed.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <006e01c4b697$10adf790$1b00a8c0@cruncher> > I've been putting off ditching Sympatico, but I'm curious, are other Sympatico > subscribers noticing a severe slowdown/timeouts recently? > > I don't relish having to change all my e-mail subscriptions, but I'm thinkin' > it's time to call Ralph. I'm at Yonge + Eglinton and my connections have been consistently fast. I watch things pretty closely with MRTG and IOG, so if I got any kind of severe drop (i.e. 5 KB/s as one poster suggested) I'd notice. I switched to Sympatico about a year ago now. At the time I had been a cable customer for years (first in London, then Yonge + Finch, then Yonge + Eglinton) and although cable was OK, DSL at the time offered higher upload speeds... so I switched. I've been happy with Sympatico, other than for awhile when I switched to Ultra and the connection would reset (and thus my IP as well) up to a dozen times a day. Dropping back to 3000/800 solved the problem (an honestly the extra 1000 download wasn't worth it). Anyways that's my little story... :) Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 12:26:22 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 05:26:22 -0700 Subject: Learning about configure/makefiles ? In-Reply-To: <20041020071048.3b51dec9.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020104352.GA21459@m450> <20041020071048.3b51dec9.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <40CF3B78-2293-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 20-Oct-04, at 4:10, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 06:43:52 -0400 > "Walter Dnes" wrote: > >> 4 years ago, all I knew was RPM. Today, I can... >> >> ./configure --with-this-that-and-the-other >> make >> make install >> >> but I still don't have a clue what's going on "under the hood". I >> get a >> ton of hits on Google for "makefile tutorial", but I probably want a >> book to refer to. Any recommendations? > > These programming courses are free and cover this material > > http://www.icanprogram.com/nofeecourses.html Not necessarily gratis , but at least as good ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 13:18:25 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:18:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Learning about configure/makefiles ? In-Reply-To: <20041020104352.GA21459@m450> References: <20041020104352.GA21459@m450> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Walter Dnes wrote: > 4 years ago, all I knew was RPM. Today, I can... > > ./configure --with-this-that-and-the-other > make > make install > > but I still don't have a clue what's going on "under the hood". I get a > ton of hits on Google for "makefile tutorial", but I probably want a > book to refer to. Any recommendations? info make on your system and read Introduction: Simple Makefile configure is another thing altogether and much more complex. info autoconf will get you started. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 14:14:01 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:14:01 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041020101401.5065e91d.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:55:10 -0400 Aaron Vegh disseminated the following: > Meanwhile, the Linux platform is clamouring for the tantalizing goal > of "ease of use", that key to final acceptance on the desktop. We're > not there yet, and many doubt that the current solutions -- Gnome and > KDE -- have what it takes to get us there. Thought this might be apropos: http://arstechnica.com/etc/linux/index.html -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 10:13:03 up 77 days, 10:02, 8 users, load average: 0.30, 0.26, 0.18 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Superstition, idolatry, and hypocrisy have ample wages, but truth goes a-begging." -- Martin Luther -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 15:07:56 2004 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:07:56 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <20041020101401.5065e91d.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <20041020101401.5065e91d.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: Another way, would be to raise money somehow and pay people to write your code. It may not be easy, but there is always another option. -Joseph- On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:14:01 -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Sat, 16 Oct 2004 16:55:10 -0400 > Aaron Vegh disseminated the following: > > > Meanwhile, the Linux platform is clamouring for the tantalizing goal > > of "ease of use", that key to final acceptance on the desktop. We're > > not there yet, and many doubt that the current solutions -- Gnome and > > KDE -- have what it takes to get us there. > > Thought this might be apropos: > > http://arstechnica.com/etc/linux/index.html > > -- > JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org > 10:13:03 up 77 days, 10:02, 8 users, load average: 0.30, 0.26, 0.18 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > "Superstition, idolatry, and hypocrisy have ample wages, but truth goes > a-begging." -- Martin Luther > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 15:55:53 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:55:53 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204101918085c66de4c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <640161AD-21F4-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <4386c5b204101918085c66de4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041020155553.GO8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:08:10PM -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Thanks Lloyd for taking the time to write back with a very > well-thought out response. I think it puts the cap on my efforts to > create something new, at least through this list. :-( > > To all that responded, there's probably not one of you for whom I have > a major disagreement; much of your responses were valid to me and made > sense. However, I am proposing _my_ vision, not yours, and I was > hoping that someone among you would be interested enough to join up > with me and help make it -- or something like it -- a reality. > > To those who say that what we have is fine, or that we don't need > another GUI, I do disagree. What we have now is "more of the same", > and not compelling enough to make people switch. The heart of my idea > is to provide something new and different. It won't dovetail nicely > with KDE, and it's certainly not additional functionality. > > This is what infuriates me about the whole open source movement; > ultimately, it's a developer's-only club. At the end of the day, it's > the itch-scratching programmers who call the shots, and if anyone else > has an idea, it's invalid because they can't code. Yes, I speak from > former experience attempting to participate in OSS projects. That > sounds like an excellent new thread for this list. Well actually I think you are wrong about the open source movement then. Nothing stops you from either: 1: going and doing it yourself 2: convincing willing developers to help with it for free 3: hiring some other developer to do it 4: starting a company with visionary ideas and getting investors to help fund it and hiring developers to do it The last two options are the most likely to actually get it done I suspect, although they require funding of course. Even with funding you don't always succeed either of course. There are also plenty of projects that would love input and participation from graphics artists (making pretty buttons and themes and picking nice colours and such) as well as people cable of writing good documentation and even people able to test and find bugs and repot them sufficiently well that the developers can track them down and fix them. Lots of ways to help. I guess "idea people" just isn't one of the categories with high demand. :( Developers doing things on their spare time as a hobby tend to want to work on something they think contributes to their own computer use or at least soething they think is worth while. The problem here may be that either you haven't found a willing capable developer who wants to share in your vision of a new GUI, or perhaps those who think it sounds interesting realize just how much work it would be and think they have more interesting things to do first. > So if I truly believe in this idea of mine, it seems the solution is > to learn to program and do it myself. I'll write back in five years > with my results. Sounds great. Having just looked at the web page for croquet (sp?) it looks neat, although their multi 3d world interface concept to me doesn't sound practical either from a user point of view or the hardware resources required to run such a monstrocity. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 15:58:02 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:58:02 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041020155802.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 07:08:29PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Careful, yer starting to sound like me ;-) > > Anyhow, I just spoke with a supervisor at Symcraptico and let them know that > they had made a *huge* mistake, that up until their hookup with MS I had very > little to complain about, and that I would be initiating a switch to another ISP > within 24 hours. > > Now I just have to wait for the fscking IStop web page to load... > > Anything anyone can tell me about what I should have ready for the switch? I > already have an Alcatel Speed Touch modem and a router that manages my internet > connection, should be pretty seamless, no? Your modem or Bell's modem? If Bell's they will want it back. You will of course have to go change the account info in the PPPoE setup of the router. That should take care of most of it. I suggest NOT using your sympatico email address to sign up with another ISP of course. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 16:03:58 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:03:58 -0400 Subject: router/firewall hardware advice In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041020160358.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:38:14PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Does any one have any suggestions for a newby on choice of router for > a small (3 pcs) home network with a fixed IP connection? > > If I configure a linux box as a router does it need two NIC cards? Does > it have to be (should it be) a dedicated router? Are there good > linux-friendly hub type routers that can be flexibly configured? > How are CD/floppy based routers? Well you normally require two NICs. I only use one, since I haven't gotten around to tgetting my second card back from a friend that borrowed it a while ago. I run PPPoE and running the PPPoE and local network traffic on the same NIC is working fine since PPPoE doesn't run IP packets so they don't really bother anything else on the network. Don't do this unless you can trust every machine on your local network of course. > Currently I have an SMC router but it doesn't seem to work too well with > fixed ip (or with linux -- I could only get to the interface using windows > explorer.) Maybe I'm doing something wrong? Well some companies just can't code HTML to save their lives. :) Or it is setup to only allow configuration from a specific port, mac or ip perhaps. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 16:06:01 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:06:01 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <200410192239.52193.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041020160601.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:39:52PM -0400, Chris Gow wrote: > I'm running Suse 8.2 and I'm trying to figure out how I can configure X so > that until I plug in my USB mouse it uses the default touchpad. Currently I > have to go into yast and manually switch it. Is there anyway to have the usb > mouse detected automatically and fall back to the touchpad if it isn't > plugged in? If the touch pad works as ps2, I would think just configuring it to use the ps2 device as the primary mouse and the usb as an additional mouse should allow it to work with the touch pad at all times, and the usb whenever connected. At least I have used ps2 and usb mice in that setup before without a problem. With 2.6 kernels everything mouse related can be read from /dev/input/mice combined so X configured to use that should see events from any mouse connected to the system no matter what. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 16:16:08 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:16:08 -0400 Subject: Call to arms! A new GUI for Linux In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204101918085c66de4c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b20410161355523396f5@mail.gmail.com> <640161AD-21F4-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <4386c5b204101918085c66de4c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <59BF1ABA-22B3-11D9-BBA1-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Oct 19, 2004, at 9:08 PM, Aaron Vegh wrote: > This is what infuriates me about the whole open source movement; > ultimately, it's a developer's-only club. (I'll assume that with "developer" you include developers of documentation, designs, graphics, testing, and various other things...otherwise your comment doesn't match the reality of most mid-to-large scale projects.) Why 'infuriates'? Or, to put it another way, what do you think would be fairer than: those who do the work get to determine how that effort is applied? > At the end of the day, it's > the itch-scratching programmers who call the shots, and if anyone else > has an idea, it's invalid because they can't code. If it's an idea that *requires* code, how do you see it happening otherwise? Working to support someone else's vision is usually called "employment" or "slavery", maybe. :-) (If that came across like, "workers of the world, unite," I sincerely apologize...that's not my thing at all.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 16:54:56 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 12:54:56 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <20041020155802.GP8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041020155802.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041020125456.3625e9b2.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 11:58:02 -0400 Lennart Sorensen disseminated the following: > > Now I just have to wait for the fscking IStop web page to load... > > > > Anything anyone can tell me about what I should have ready for the switch? I > > already have an Alcatel Speed Touch modem and a router that manages my > > internet > > connection, should be pretty seamless, no? > > Your modem or Bell's modem? If Bell's they will want it back. No, this is one I picked up a ways back when I was 1st considering switching. > You will of course have to go change the account info in the PPPoE setup > of the router. That should take care of most of it. I suggest NOT > using your sympatico email address to sign up with another ISP of > course. Sorry to be thick, but I'm not sure what you mean here. Surely I can use 'joehill at istop dot com', no? My userid at Bell is not the same e-mail as my 'joehill' address, if that is the issue. -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 12:45:49 up 77 days, 12:35, 8 users, load average: 0.10, 0.11, 0.04 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "President Bush is asking Congress for $80 billion dollars to rebuild Iraq. And when you make out that check, remember there are two L's in Halliburton." -- David Letterman -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 17:44:15 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:44:15 -0400 Subject: pow() function question Message-ID: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in a C program? bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:08:59 2004 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:08:59 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <20041020160601.GR8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041020160601.GR8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200410201409.01240.sniffy@rogers.com> On October 20, 2004 12:06 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 10:39:52PM -0400, Chris Gow wrote: > > I'm running Suse 8.2 and I'm trying to figure out how I can configure X > > so that until I plug in my USB mouse it uses the default touchpad. > > Currently I have to go into yast and manually switch it. Is there anyway > > to have the usb mouse detected automatically and fall back to the > > touchpad if it isn't plugged in? > > If the touch pad works as ps2, I would think just configuring it to use > the ps2 device as the primary mouse and the usb as an additional mouse > should allow it to work with the touch pad at all times, and the usb > whenever connected. At least I have used ps2 and usb mice in that setup > before without a problem. Did you have to configure your ps2 and usb mice in the same manner as Peter suggested? Or were you able to configure them differently? thanks -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 17:39:07 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:39:07 -0700 Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On 20-Oct-04, at 10:44, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in > a C > program? http://www.google.com/search?q=C+function+pow 5th entry : http://forums.devshed.com/t131478/s.html Does that help ? HTH , Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 17:39:15 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:39:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in a C > program? [alex at foobar alex]$ man pow EXP(3) Linux Programmer's Manual EXP(3) NAME exp, log, log10, pow - exponential, logarithmic and power functions SYNOPSIS #include ... Now you know how to find out. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 17:46:57 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 10:46:57 -0700 Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <09D4F25C-22C0-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 20-Oct-04, at 10:39, talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in >> a C >> program? > > [alex at foobar alex]$ man pow > EXP(3) Linux Programmer's Manual > EXP(3) > > NAME > exp, log, log10, pow - exponential, logarithmic and power > functions > > SYNOPSIS > #include > ... > > Now you know how to find out. Though that does not seem to be the answer -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 17:52:58 2004 From: ab460-0l1pH2CMacvR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org (SlackRat) Date: 20 Oct 2004 13:52:58 -0400 Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <877jpltgxx.fsf@cpe00024481c080-cm0f2069983361.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org writes: > What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in a C > program? > > bob Man pow is your friend -- Slackrat -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 17:59:46 2004 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 13:59:46 -0400 Subject: router/firewall hardware advice In-Reply-To: <20041020160358.GQ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020160358.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: Thanks very much to everyone who wrote back with advice and links!! Do you know if I lose a lot flexibility/customizability if I use syslink hub as opposed to linux based CD or pc router? On my SMC, it seemed to force a choice between fixed IP and pppoe. On the fixed IP you could input the ip address, but not the password info. On the pppoe option you could input password info, but no IP info. My provider needs both, so I couldn't connect with fixed IP. It sounds like this won't be a problem with linksys? Can anyone confirm that? (I'd like to use a linux based CD or PC, but ran into objections at home when I brought up the idea of another computer running full time ("too noisy").) Alex On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Tue, Oct 19, 2004 at 09:38:14PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > > Does any one have any suggestions for a newby on choice of router for > > a small (3 pcs) home network with a fixed IP connection? > > > > If I configure a linux box as a router does it need two NIC cards? Does > > it have to be (should it be) a dedicated router? Are there good > > linux-friendly hub type routers that can be flexibly configured? > > How are CD/floppy based routers? > > Well you normally require two NICs. I only use one, since I haven't > gotten around to tgetting my second card back from a friend that > borrowed it a while ago. I run PPPoE and running the PPPoE and local > network traffic on the same NIC is working fine since PPPoE doesn't run > IP packets so they don't really bother anything else on the network. > Don't do this unless you can trust every machine on your local network > of course. > > > Currently I have an SMC router but it doesn't seem to work too well with > > fixed ip (or with linux -- I could only get to the interface using windows > > explorer.) Maybe I'm doing something wrong? > > Well some companies just can't code HTML to save their lives. :) > > Or it is setup to only allow configuration from a specific port, mac or > ip perhaps. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:04:46 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:04:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: <09D4F25C-22C0-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> <09D4F25C-22C0-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > > On 20-Oct-04, at 10:39, talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > >> What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in > >> a C > >> program? > > > > [alex at foobar alex]$ man pow > > EXP(3) Linux Programmer's Manual > > EXP(3) > > > > NAME > > exp, log, log10, pow - exponential, logarithmic and power > > functions > > > > SYNOPSIS > > #include > > ... > > > > Now you know how to find out. > > Though that does not seem to be the answer > My bad -- I got the meaning that there was a compiler error, but instead it was a linker error ('What library..'). Actually I'm surprised that 'man pow' doesn't say something intelligent like "Don't forget that this function is contained in library X" or something like that. The last time I did substantial C development, I believe c0_std.lib (or whatever it was called) contained the entire run-time library. Going in the other direction, how would you list the functions stored in a library? Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:10:20 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:10:20 -0400 Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20041020181020.GA789@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 01:44:15PM -0400, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in a C > program? -lm -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:12:48 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 20 Oct 2004 14:12:48 -0400 Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org writes: > What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in a C > program? Usually, it's is libm.* and nm(1) on my /usr/lib/libm.a shows lots of pow related stuff and a quick 'cc a.c -o a -lm' works. HTH, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:16:46 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 20 Oct 2004 14:16:46 -0400 Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> <09D4F25C-22C0-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org writes: > Going in the other direction, how would you list the functions stored in a > library? nm(1) will list all of the symbols. -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:51:23 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:51:23 -0400 Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20041020185123.GS8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 01:44:15PM -0400, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in a C > program? Perhaps libm (libmath for c) will help. Add -lm to the link step. Anything that uses #include "math.h" needs -lm as well when linking. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:53:48 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:53:48 -0400 Subject: router/firewall hardware advice In-Reply-To: References: <20041020160358.GQ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041020185348.GT8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 01:59:46PM -0400, Alex Maynard wrote: > Thanks very much to everyone who wrote back with advice and links!! > > Do you know if I lose a lot flexibility/customizability if I use syslink > hub as opposed to linux based CD or pc router? > > On my SMC, it seemed to force a choice between fixed IP and pppoe. On the > fixed IP you could input the ip address, but not the password info. On the > pppoe option you could input password info, but no IP info. My provider > needs both, so I couldn't connect with fixed IP. It sounds like this > won't be a problem with linksys? Can anyone confirm that? (I'd like to use > a linux based CD or PC, but ran into objections at home when I > brought up the idea of another computer running full time ("too noisy").) Your provider should not require an ip when using PPPoE even if you ahve a static IP. It should simple send you the static ip every time you connect. At least istop.com does as one would expect. You either have a static IP if using a plain bridged ethernet interface (not pppoe) like high end dsl or cablemodem, or you use PPPoE which takes care of all the settings (similar to DHCP actually). Your ISP happens to know that your static IP should be the IP sent to you when you connect with PPPoE unless the provider is defective. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 18:56:14 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:56:14 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <20041020125456.3625e9b2.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041020155802.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20041020125456.3625e9b2.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041020185614.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 12:54:56PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > No, this is one I picked up a ways back when I was 1st considering switching. Well no problem there then. > Sorry to be thick, but I'm not sure what you mean here. Surely I can use > 'joehill at istop dot com', no? > > My userid at Bell is not the same e-mail as my 'joehill' address, if that is the > issue. When you sign up you provide a contact email, which they will use to communicate the setup details. Using one that you are about to cancel is not a good idea. I still get my billing invoices sent to the email I used for signing up with istop. gmail, yahoo mail, etc would be better since you don't loose those when you switch. Once setup I am sure you can have all your stuff sent to user-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org but during setup you need another one that won't be disappearing right when you switch. At least that was the case 6 months ago. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 19:15:54 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 15:15:54 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <20041020185614.GU8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041020155802.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20041020125456.3625e9b2.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041020185614.GU8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041020151554.67123a1d.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 14:56:14 -0400 Lennart Sorensen disseminated the following: > When you sign up you provide a contact email, which they will use to > communicate the setup details. Using one that you are about to cancel > is not a good idea. I still get my billing invoices sent to the email I > used for signing up with istop. gmail, yahoo mail, etc would be better > since you don't loose those when you switch. Once setup I am sure you > can have all your stuff sent to user-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org but during setup you need > another one that won't be disappearing right when you switch. > > At least that was the case 6 months ago. Actually, I called IStop (no 800 number??) and they did give me some advice in this regard. Sympatico will apparently not cancel until the end of the billing cycle anyhow, so I just put in the order to cancel, place the order with IStop immediately, whereupon they send an e-mail right away with the billing info/invoice, so I can't see missing it. As soon as I pay the bill, I'm active. I'm going to allow for a couple of days overlap so there's minimal downtime. IStop's advice was to pay their invoice 7 days ahead of the Sympatico cancellation, then like you say I should just be able to change the billing info(ie. e-mail address). -- JoeHill / RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 15:07:56 up 77 days, 14:57, 8 users, load average: 0.05, 0.10, 0.25 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "The struggle between people and capital is now an epic struggle between life and death." -- Vandana Shiva, World Social Forum, January 16, 2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 21:36:16 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 17:36:16 -0400 Subject: Carpool website In-Reply-To: <20041019052740.48443.qmail-+Hr5lMjvZOWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019052740.48443.qmail@web50804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20041020213650.C6D9F6DB08@lethe.ss.org> > Because I am new on the web design, Any feedback is > welcome! The site is very hard to read and the background makes the site look stereoscopic. Get rid of the background, and make some contrast between the text and the interface. The best way to come up with a good design concept is to go to a site like templatemonster and find a design you like. Then just "improve" it by recreating something better. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 22:32:27 2004 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 18:32:27 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> On October 20, 2004 06:39 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > You can use 2 or more mice together. Edit the XF86Config file > (/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 or similar). Make the section shown below resemble > what I paste here: > > Section "ServerLayout" > Identifier "XFree86 Configured" > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > InputDevice "USB Mouse" "CorePointer" > InputDevice "PS/2 Mouse" "CorePointer" > EndSection > > The touchpad will not be disabled, you can use both (yes, this is > confusing). The /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 will be rewritten after each config > run so keep a backup copy after you make everything work. Yast will > typically refuse to modify files that you have changed so you may have to > revert to the old version to make yast work on it again. I modified my XF86Config file as described above. But it doesn't work :( Either the touchpad is active or the USB mouse is active but neither at the same time. I generally try to stay away from XF86Config (too many bad memories trying to get a config to work a few years back). But I noticed that when I run Yast, no matter what mouse type I select, Yast always seems to specify /dev/mouse as the device. On a lark I tried setting both of them to the same device but that (as I expected) didn't work. Below is a snippit of the relevant parts of my config file as it stands. I got the results from running Yast, changing the mouse backing up the config file, running Yast again and adding in the new section and hitting CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE at KDM. Section "InputDevice" Driver "mouse" Identifier "Mouse[1]" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "on" Option "Name" "Autodetection" Option "Protocol" "PS/2" Option "Vendor" "Sysp" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "InputDevice" Driver "mouse" Identifier "USBMouse" Option "ButtonNumber" "2" Option "Device" "/dev/usbmouse" Option "Name" "Autodetection" Option "Protocol" "ExplorerPS/2" Option "Vendor" "Sysp" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection Section "ServerLayout" Identifier "Layout[all]" InputDevice "Keyboard[0]" "CoreKeyboard" InputDevice "USBMouse" "CorePointer" InputDevice "Mouse[1]" "CorePointer" Option "Clone" "off" Option "Xinerama" "off" Screen "Screen[0]" EndSection thanks -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 00:40:41 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 20:40:41 -0400 Subject: WPC11 v4 Message-ID: <200410202040.41141.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, I have a friend with a Linksys WPC11 v4 card. He's trying to get it running with Redhat9. Is this a futile effort or does anyone know how well it works? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 02:11:22 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 20 Oct 2004 22:11:22 -0400 Subject: WPC11 v4 In-Reply-To: <200410202040.41141.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200410202040.41141.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: Fraser Campbell writes: > Hi, > > I have a friend with a Linksys WPC11 v4 card. He's trying to get it running > with Redhat9. Is this a futile effort or does anyone know how well it works? It's not a Prism card (like the WPC11 v1 through v3). IIRC, it's based on an unsupported Broadcomm chipset. He might be able to use the ndiswrapper stuff to run the Windows driver but I'd recommend he replace it with a well supported card. If he wants B, I recommend the SMC Elite Connect (SMC 2532W-B). Alternatively, Netgear makes a nice nice G card which is well supported by the madwifi drivers (Netgear WG511T). -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 13:00:43 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:00:43 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <200410201832.28185.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 06:32:27PM -0400, Chris Gow wrote: > On October 20, 2004 06:39 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > > You can use 2 or more mice together. Edit the XF86Config file > > (/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 or similar). Make the section shown below resemble > > what I paste here: > > > > Section "ServerLayout" > > Identifier "XFree86 Configured" > > Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 > > InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" > > InputDevice "USB Mouse" "CorePointer" > > InputDevice "PS/2 Mouse" "CorePointer" > > EndSection > > > > The touchpad will not be disabled, you can use both (yes, this is > > confusing). The /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 will be rewritten after each config > > run so keep a backup copy after you make everything work. Yast will > > typically refuse to modify files that you have changed so you may have to > > revert to the old version to make yast work on it again. > > I modified my XF86Config file as described above. But it doesn't work > :( Either the touchpad is active or the USB mouse is active but neither at the > same time. I generally try to stay away from XF86Config (too many bad > memories trying to get a config to work a few years back). But I noticed that > when I run Yast, no matter what mouse type I select, Yast always seems to > specify /dev/mouse as the device. On a lark I tried setting both of them to > the same device but that (as I expected) didn't work. Below is a snippit of > the relevant parts of my config file as it stands. I got the results from > running Yast, changing the mouse backing up the config file, running Yast > again and adding in the new section and hitting CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE at KDM. Both mice should NOT be CorePointer. The PS/2 mouse should be core pointer, and the USB should be set to 'AlwaysCore' or 'SendCoreEvents' (both mean the same thing). You can only have one CorePointer, but as many additional other devices as you want. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 13:31:10 2004 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 09:31:10 -0400 Subject: Web app integration projects? Message-ID: <20041021093110.6dacfeff.rob@cheapersafer.com> I've started a project to assemble information on projects that are looking at integrating web based business packages. For example, many companies that sell both real products and training courses want to integrate OSCommerce and Moodle or integrate a blog or community site with an existing setup. Or tie an e-commerce package into SQL-Ledger I'm just focussing on LAMP based packages at the moment. If you know of a project or an ongoing discussion about trying to hook these kinds of packages up, I'd like to know about it. I'm collecting this material at http://www.memeshadow.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/IntegrationDocumentation Thanks in advance, Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 20:08:02 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:08:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: pow() function question In-Reply-To: References: <20041020173149.197D7EB2E3@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> What library does one have to link in to enable the pow() function in a C >> program? > > [alex at foobar alex]$ man pow > EXP(3) Linux Programmer's Manual EXP(3) > > NAME > exp, log, log10, pow - exponential, logarithmic and power functions > > SYNOPSIS > #include > ... > > Now you know how to find out. No, he does not. You need to specify -lm as a linker option to *link* libm which is the math library that contains pow() etc. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 20 20:05:47 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 16:05:47 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: <20041020155802.GP8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041020155802.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > of the router. That should take care of most of it. I suggest NOT > using your sympatico email address to sign up with another ISP of > course. Why not ? I thought the red carpets of opportunity are redder for punters who ride the 'wrong horse'. Or are they ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 17:01:50 2004 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:01:50 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <20041021130043.GV8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> On October 21, 2004 09:00 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Both mice should NOT be CorePointer. The PS/2 mouse should be core > pointer, and the USB should be set to 'AlwaysCore' or 'SendCoreEvents' > (both mean the same thing). > > You can only have one CorePointer, but as many additional other devices > as you want. Hmmm...Okay I tried that but when I do that I get no mouse at all. Whenever I change my mouse between the touchpad to the USB mouse yast adds the following entry: Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" Setting both of the mice to point to that device doesn't work it results in both mice not working at all (I figured something like that would happen). However, I noticed that near the beginning of my config file there are a mess load of InputDevices entries, one of which points to "/dev/usbmouse" I put that as my device option for the USB mouse, but when I do that, the USB mouse _still_ doesn't work at all and the touchpad doesn't work correctly: The cursor moves by itself and constantly resets itself in the lower left corner. Is it possible that when I run yast that it not only does it change my XF86Config file but other device links? Which would explain (at least to me) why I don't have to restart X to get it to recognize the new mouse. -- thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 17:55:58 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 13:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal In-Reply-To: <200410211301.51076.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Hi guys, This is a rather simplistic question from a newcomer to Linux... I just started playing with the "Personal" SuSE Linux 9.1, I am looking for a C/C++ compilir as it does not seem to include one. To build gcc we need a... C compiler in the first place! Any advice? Thanks. Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 18:00:02 2004 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:00:02 -0400 Subject: PPC Linux IDE controllers Message-ID: Can anyone point me to a list of supported IDE controllers for PPC linux. Thanks, -Joseph- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 18:00:46 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 11:00:46 -0700 Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal Message-ID: <224FA1B2-238B-11D9-978A-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 21-Oct-04, at 10:55, Francois Ouellette wrote: > Hi guys, > > This is a rather simplistic question from a newcomer to Linux... > > I just started playing with the "Personal" SuSE Linux 9.1, I am looking > for a C/C++ compilir as it does not seem to include one. > > To build gcc we need a... C compiler in the first place! Why do you want to build gcc ? Rather than use YAST , I recommend installing red-carpet , should make installing gcc easy . HTH, Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 18:07:03 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 14:07:03 -0400 Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal In-Reply-To: <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <1098382023.10247.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 13:55 -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > I just started playing with the "Personal" SuSE Linux 9.1, I am looking > for a C/C++ compilir as it does not seem to include one. All major distros include gcc, and g++, and usually g77. I'm 110% sure it comes with SuSe. You probably just haven't installed the development tools. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 14:25:20 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 10:25:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <20041021130043.GV8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 06:32:27PM -0400, Chris Gow wrote: >> On October 20, 2004 06:39 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: >>> >>> You can use 2 or more mice together. Edit the XF86Config file >>> (/etc/X11/XF86Config-4 or similar). Make the section shown below resemble >>> what I paste here: >>> >>> Section "ServerLayout" >>> Identifier "XFree86 Configured" >>> Screen 0 "Screen0" 0 0 >>> InputDevice "Keyboard0" "CoreKeyboard" >>> InputDevice "USB Mouse" "CorePointer" >>> InputDevice "PS/2 Mouse" "CorePointer" >>> EndSection >>> >>> The touchpad will not be disabled, you can use both (yes, this is >>> confusing). The /etc/X11/XF86Config-4 will be rewritten after each config >>> run so keep a backup copy after you make everything work. Yast will >>> typically refuse to modify files that you have changed so you may have to >>> revert to the old version to make yast work on it again. >> >> I modified my XF86Config file as described above. But it doesn't work >> :( Either the touchpad is active or the USB mouse is active but neither at the >> same time. I generally try to stay away from XF86Config (too many bad >> memories trying to get a config to work a few years back). But I noticed that >> when I run Yast, no matter what mouse type I select, Yast always seems to >> specify /dev/mouse as the device. On a lark I tried setting both of them to >> the same device but that (as I expected) didn't work. Below is a snippit of >> the relevant parts of my config file as it stands. I got the results from >> running Yast, changing the mouse backing up the config file, running Yast >> again and adding in the new section and hitting CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE at KDM. > > Both mice should NOT be CorePointer. The PS/2 mouse should be core > pointer, and the USB should be set to 'AlwaysCore' or 'SendCoreEvents' > (both mean the same thing). > > You can only have one CorePointer, but as many additional other devices > as you want. That's right. That's the way it's set up here (only one device operates at any one time). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 19:00:17 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:00:17 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <200410211301.51076.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20041021190017.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 21, 2004 at 01:01:50PM -0400, Chris Gow wrote: > On October 21, 2004 09:00 am, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Both mice should NOT be CorePointer. The PS/2 mouse should be core > > pointer, and the USB should be set to 'AlwaysCore' or 'SendCoreEvents' > > (both mean the same thing). > > > > You can only have one CorePointer, but as many additional other devices > > as you want. > > Hmmm...Okay I tried that but when I do that I get no mouse at all. Whenever I > change my mouse between the touchpad to the USB mouse yast adds the following > entry: > > Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" > > Setting both of the mice to point to that device doesn't work it results in > both mice not working at all (I figured something like that would happen). > However, I noticed that near the beginning of my config file there are a mess > load of InputDevices entries, one of which points to "/dev/usbmouse" I put > that as my device option for the USB mouse, but when I do that, the USB mouse > _still_ doesn't work at all and the touchpad doesn't work correctly: The > cursor moves by itself and constantly resets itself in the lower left corner. > > Is it possible that when I run yast that it not only does it change my > XF86Config file but other device links? Which would explain (at least to me) > why I don't have to restart X to get it to recognize the new mouse. Whatever the heck is Yast and why is it editing config files just bebause you connect a usb device? That's idiotic behaviour. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 19:50:00 2004 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:50:00 -0400 Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <20041021190017.GW8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021190017.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200410211550.00111.sniffy@rogers.com> On October 21, 2004 03:00 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Whatever the heck is Yast and why is it editing config files just > bebause you connect a usb device? That's idiotic behaviour. Yast (Yet another Setup Tool) is Suse's configuration tool. As for the editing config files that's what I'm trying to figure out :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 19:42:17 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:42:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal In-Reply-To: <1098382023.10247.0.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1098382023.10247.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <22398.209.29.34.110.1098387737.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Well, after looking at the SuSE web pages and the description of each package they offer, it seems that the C/C++ development tools come with the Professional version, not the Personal Linux. Can anyone confirm? Fran?ois Ouellette > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 13:55 -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: >> I just started playing with the "Personal" SuSE Linux 9.1, I am looking >> for a C/C++ compilir as it does not seem to include one. > > All major distros include gcc, and g++, and usually g77. > > I'm 110% sure it comes with SuSe. > You probably just haven't installed the development tools. > > Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 20:21:10 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:21:10 -0400 Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal In-Reply-To: <1098382023.10247.0.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1098382023.10247.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <41781A36.5000102@rogers.com> Austin wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 13:55 -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: > >>I just started playing with the "Personal" SuSE Linux 9.1, I am looking >>for a C/C++ compilir as it does not seem to include one. > > > All major distros include gcc, and g++, and usually g77. > > I'm 110% sure it comes with SuSe. > You probably just haven't installed the development tools. > As I understand it, the SuSE "Personal" version doesn't come with development tools. However, they can be installed from the SuSE ftp site. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 20:23:55 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:23:55 -0400 Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal In-Reply-To: <22398.209.29.34.110.1098387737.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1098382023.10247.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <22398.209.29.34.110.1098387737.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <41781ADB.4030407@rogers.com> I believe that's correct, however, you can install them from the SuSE ftp site. You can point Yast to that site, to make finding and installing the packages easier. Francois Ouellette wrote: > Well, after looking at the SuSE web pages and the description of each > package they offer, it seems that the C/C++ development tools come with > the Professional version, not the Personal Linux. > > Can anyone confirm? > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > >>On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 13:55 -0400, Francois Ouellette wrote: >> >>>I just started playing with the "Personal" SuSE Linux 9.1, I am looking >>>for a C/C++ compilir as it does not seem to include one. >> >>All major distros include gcc, and g++, and usually g77. >> >>I'm 110% sure it comes with SuSe. >>You probably just haven't installed the development tools. >> >>Austin > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 20:27:35 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 16:27:35 -0400 Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal In-Reply-To: <41781A36.5000102-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1098382023.10247.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <41781A36.5000102@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1098390455.15784.15.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 16:21 -0400, James Knott wrote: > As I understand it, the SuSE "Personal" version doesn't come with > development tools. However, they can be installed from the SuSE ftp site. Can you not setup the ftp repository as a software source as you can with gentoo, debian, mandrake, etc? If not, that's stupid. Seems ridiculous not to be able to emerge/apt-get/urpmi your software. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 21:37:00 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:37:00 -0400 Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal In-Reply-To: <1098390455.15784.15.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1098382023.10247.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <41781A36.5000102@rogers.com> <1098390455.15784.15.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <41782BFC.9000505@rogers.com> Austin wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-21 at 16:21 -0400, James Knott wrote: > >>As I understand it, the SuSE "Personal" version doesn't come with >>development tools. However, they can be installed from the SuSE ftp site. > > > Can you not setup the ftp repository as a software source as you can > with gentoo, debian, mandrake, etc? > > If not, that's stupid. Seems ridiculous not to be able to > emerge/apt-get/urpmi your software. Yes, you can set up Yast, to get the packages from the SuSE ftp site. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 21 23:18:05 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:18:05 -0400 Subject: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <10358.209.29.34.110.1098381358.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <1098382023.10247.0.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <22398.209.29.34.110.1098387737.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <41781ADB.4030407@rogers.com> Message-ID: <000b01c4b7c4$4a64a780$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> I think the "missing " stuff is due to the limited space on the CD, there isn't enough for everything, the Pro version comes on a DVD. The downloadable Iso image fits exactly on a 700MB CD. Most of the package for x86 machines are found at ftp://ftp.suse.com/pub/suse/i386/9.1/suse/i586/ Thanks to all who replied! Fran?ois Ouellette ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Knott" To: Sent: Thursday, 21 October, 2004 16:23 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: C/C++ compiler on SuSE Personal I believe that's correct, however, you can install them from the SuSE ftp site. You can point Yast to that site, to make finding and installing the packages easier. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 12:10:08 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 08:10:08 -0400 Subject: PHP/MySQL Forum (BB) Message-ID: <20041022121044.DE5426D9C9@lethe.ss.org> Howdy all, I have a client set up with PhpBB. It's all good, except he finds it too complicated to use. He would like to implement something like voy.com, (see http://www.voy.com/64565/ for example). Does anyone know of a PHP/MySQL (or other Linux friendly solution) to do something like this? Basically, he is looking for a super simple forum script. Tia, Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 13:46:45 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:46:45 -0400 Subject: PHP/MySQL Forum (BB) In-Reply-To: <20041022121044.DE5426D9C9-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20041022121044.DE5426D9C9@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <1098452805.15452.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm an Eblah fan. The installation can be a pain (I was working on an installer... need 40 hour days though) but after it's setup, it works pretty good. Only requirement is perl. http://www.eblah.com/ - Scott. On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 08:10, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Howdy all, > > I have a client set up with PhpBB. It's all good, except he finds it too > complicated to use. He would like to implement something like voy.com, (see > http://www.voy.com/64565/ for example). Does anyone know of a PHP/MySQL (or > other Linux friendly solution) to do something like this? Basically, he is > looking for a super simple forum script. > > Tia, > > Sid > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 13:49:34 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:49:34 -0400 Subject: PHP/MySQL Forum (BB) In-Reply-To: <1098452805.15452.7.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20041022121044.DE5426D9C9@lethe.ss.org> <1098452805.15452.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1098452972.15452.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry, should have followed the link first. :( -S. On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 09:46, Scott Elcomb wrote: [...] > http://www.eblah.com/ [...] > > I have a client set up with PhpBB. It's all good, except he finds it too > > complicated to use. He would like to implement something like voy.com, (see > > http://www.voy.com/64565/ for example). Does anyone know of a PHP/MySQL (or > > other Linux friendly solution) to do something like this? Basically, he is > > looking for a super simple forum script. > > [...] -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 14:03:25 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:03:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions In-Reply-To: <200410211550.00111.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021190017.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211550.00111.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <55498.209.29.34.110.1098453805.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Hi gang, Perhaps some of you know about this already, but I thought it would be of general interest. Last night during my second installation of the Personal SuSE Linux 9.1 I ran into a tricky problem where my Windoze ME partion (yep, I need to keep it for now!) would not boot after installing SuSE 9.1. There was originally one big Windoze 40GB partition that was reduced by half by "parted" to create the Linux partitions on the disk. On ly Linux would boot after the installation. Apparently this problem is not only with SuSE, it occurs with other 2.6 kernel distributions. There is a fix that can be downloaded. Read all aboutit on: http://portal.suse.com/sdb/en/2004/05/fhassel_windows_not_booting91.html Regards, Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 14:44:31 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 10:44:31 -0400 Subject: Samba and Group permission Message-ID: Hi All, I am running a samba 3.0.4-1 server. I want to create groups so that I can control which user has access to which file. SO, I create a new group by editing the /etc/group file. I add the users which are to belong to that group. I modify the group permission on the files I want the users of said group to have access to. One of the client machines is a linux machine (but I suspect the same problem will show up on a win machine). What I'm seeing is that the owner of the share only has it's deafult group associated with it. I've been reading through the samba docs and man pages but I haven't found a solution yet. There must be some way to have a user be part of multiple groups and have samba respect those - or is it just wishful thinking? Any ideas? Thanks Martin Duclos -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 15:12:37 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:12:37 -0400 Subject: LF Simple but functional local and remote linux system monitoring Message-ID: <41792365.7010107@knet.ca> I tried installing Zabbix, it requires NET-SNMP, and getting SNMP server and clients to work on both Fedora Core 2 and Windows servers it is getting way way too complicated. Isnt there a more simple and easy to use system monitoring tool out there, that is 1) reasonably easy to install 2) preferrably doesnt require SNMP, or Perl modules, or other gotcha's that you have to go search, install and get working 3) can remotely monitor several linux and windows servers... 4) is web based and can provide graphs I understand if I dont use SNMP, then I have to go with a less accurate polling monitoring system. I dont care, as long as it works. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 15:15:56 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:15:56 -0400 Subject: Samba and Group permission In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4179242C.7040004@detachednetworks.ca> Martin Duclos wrote: > Hi All, > > I am running a samba 3.0.4-1 server. I want to create groups so that > I can control which user has access to which file. SO, I create a new > group by editing the /etc/group file. I add the users which are to > belong to that group. I modify the group permission on the files I > want the users of said group to have access to. One of the client > machines is a linux machine (but I suspect the same problem will show > up on a win machine). What I'm seeing is that the owner of the share > only has it's deafult group associated with it. I've been reading > through the samba docs and man pages but I haven't found a solution > yet. There must be some way to have a user be part of multiple groups > and have samba respect those - or is it just wishful thinking? Any ideas? > > Thanks > > Martin Duclos > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Try using ACL http://www.bluelightning.org/linux/samba_acl_howto/ -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 15:39:30 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:39:30 -0400 Subject: Samba and Group permission Message-ID: Martin Duclos wrote: >Hi All, > >I am running a samba 3.0.4-1 server. I want to create groups so that I can >control which user has access to which file. SO, I create a new group by >editing the /etc/group file. I add the users which are to belong to that >group. I modify the group permission on the files I want the users of said >group to have access to. One of the client machines is a linux machine (but >I suspect the same problem will show up on a win machine). What I'm seeing >is that the owner of the share only has it's deafult group associated with >it. I've been reading through the samba docs and man pages but I haven't >found a solution yet. There must be some way to have a user be part of >multiple groups and have samba respect those - or is it just wishful >thinking? Any ideas? > >Thanks > >Martin Duclos > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Try using ACL http://www.bluelightning.org/linux/samba_acl_howto/ I fail to see how this how to would help. I've read all of it and I haven't seen anything that directly relates to this problem with an explanation and how to fix it. Any ideas as to how I can solve my problem? Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 10:07:03 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 06:07:03 -0400 (EDT) Subject: connecting and disconnect a usb mouse In-Reply-To: <20041021190017.GW8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410201832.28185.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021130043.GV8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021190017.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 21 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Whatever the heck is Yast and why is it editing config files just > bebause you connect a usb device? That's idiotic behaviour. Yast is the Suse configurator & package manager and it does that because it's its job. It is fired up by hotplug when you plug in something into usb. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 20:18:21 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:18:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: LF Simple but functional local and remote linux system monitoring In-Reply-To: <41792365.7010107-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41792365.7010107@knet.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Teddy Mills wrote: > > I tried installing Zabbix, it requires NET-SNMP, and getting SNMP > server and > clients to work on both Fedora Core 2 and Windows servers it is getting > way way too complicated. > > Isnt there a more simple and easy to use system monitoring tool out > there, that is > > 1) reasonably easy to install > 2) preferrably doesnt require SNMP, or Perl modules, or other gotcha's > that you have to go search, install and get working > 3) can remotely monitor several linux and windows servers... > 4) is web based and can provide graphs My predecessor installed Nagios (http://www.nagios.org) and, while it is pretty complicated, it does do a pretty decent job. We use it to track a bunch of servers and various services that each server provides. It's web-based and provides graphs, but I'm betting that it does require a few Perl modules -- nothing exotic. > I understand if I dont use SNMP, then I have to go with a less accurate > polling monitoring system. > I dont care, as long as it works. We use NRPE, or Nagios Remote PlugIn Executor, to run stuff on remote machines so we can track disk usage, load, that kind of useful stuff. I guss it depends what you want to monitor -- if it's racks of equipment that only talk SNMP, then I guess it's that or nothing. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 20:19:02 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:19:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hotplug is cold ?! Message-ID: loads a blank page. Huh ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 20:32:10 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:32:10 -0400 Subject: Samba and Group permission In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041022203210.GX8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 11:39:30AM -0400, Martin Duclos wrote: > Martin Duclos wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >I am running a samba 3.0.4-1 server. I want to create groups so that I > >can control which user has access to which file. SO, I create a new group > >by editing the /etc/group file. I add the users which are to belong to > >that group. I modify the group permission on the files I want the users of > >said group to have access to. One of the client machines is a linux > >machine (but I suspect the same problem will show up on a win machine). > >What I'm seeing is that the owner of the share only has it's deafult group > >associated with it. I've been reading through the samba docs and man pages > >but I haven't found a solution yet. There must be some way to have a user > >be part of multiple groups and have samba respect those - or is it just > >wishful thinking? Any ideas? > > > >Thanks > > > >Martin Duclos > > > > > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > Try using ACL > > http://www.bluelightning.org/linux/samba_acl_howto/ > > I fail to see how this how to would help. I've read all of it and I haven't > seen anything that directly relates to this problem with an explanation and > how to fix it. Any ideas as to how I can solve my problem? smb.conf: [MyShare] comment = My Share Name browseable = yes path = /data/path printable = no public = no writable = yes create mode = 0770 inherit permissions = Yes inherit acls = Yes filesystem and kernel supports Posix ACL (XFS in this case) ACL settings: host# getfacl /data/path # file: /data/path # owner: user1 # group: users user::rwx group::r-x group:sharemain-write:rwx group:sharemain-read:r-x group:others-read:r-x mask::rwx other::--- default:user::rwx default:group::r-x default:group:sharemain-write:rwx default:group:sharemain-read:r-x default:group:others-read:r-x default:mask::rwx default:other::--- host# ls -ld /data/path drwxrws---+ 11 user1 users 4096 Oct 4 08:53 /data/path/ [Notice the '+' on the permissions? That means ACL is in use on that dir] The acl defaults cause all new files created to have those permissions, and multiple users are members of either sharemain-write, sharemain-read or others-read in this case where the ones in share-write can write to the files which are set writable by that group, the read group can read those files, and some subset of dirs and files are also added for group others-read. You can add as many groups and individual users to each file and dir as you want, and you can set defaults for dirs that apply to all newly created subdirs and files which then inherit the setting (and setfacl can propegate settings similar to chmod with recursive option too or you can pass info get getfacl to setfacl to copy the permissions of a dir to a set of files and dirs.) Overall this gives much finer control over samba shares since you can make any dir read/write, read only or not accessable to different users without having to create a group for each file or dir with a certain user combination with one unix group per combination (which is just too hard to maintain). In windows the acl groups even appear in windows as groups so you can see which groups have access to a file from windows, and to some extent even control it the same way you would with groups and users on a windows server. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 20:53:37 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 16:53:37 -0400 Subject: .pdf --> .doc ? Message-ID: <20041022205337.GA1719@node1.opengeometry.net> How do convert a PDF file to Word doc file? Eg. resume.pdf into resume.doc. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 21:03:23 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:03:23 -0400 Subject: .pdf --> .doc ? In-Reply-To: <20041022205337.GA1719-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041022205337.GA1719@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4179759B.6030202@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > How do convert a PDF file to Word doc file? Eg. resume.pdf into > resume.doc. > You can use Kword to read a PDF and then export to MS Write, RTF or OpenOffice format. You should then be able to convert one of those to DOC format. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 21:03:25 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:03:25 -0400 Subject: .pdf --> .doc ? In-Reply-To: <20041022205337.GA1719-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041022205337.GA1719@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1098479005.4179759d7874c@www.almatau.com> pdf -> txt with pdf2txt I don't think there are Linux tools for converting to M$ Word available :-), antiword is doing doc -> text Quoting William Park : > How do convert a PDF file to Word doc file? Eg. resume.pdf into > resume.doc. > > -- > William Park > Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 21:24:32 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:24:32 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions In-Reply-To: <55498.209.29.34.110.1098453805.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021190017.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211550.00111.sniffy@rogers.com> <55498.209.29.34.110.1098453805.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f041022142420d05e1d@mail.gmail.com> For some reason, although with a similar config, I haven't had this problem. I am running dual boot, win 2k off a 40GB ata (c drive for windows) and SUSE 9.1 off a 80 GB SATA, split evenly between Linux and Windoze. So far (aka the last ~5-6 months), no problems booting into win2k. However, on a related topic, my SUSE install doesn't always boot up, just sort of hangs there with the progress bar stuck in the beginning, no HD activity, nothing at all. After a restart, it boots up properly and works fine. At this point it boots up right ~95% of the time. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there any sort of remedy? Igor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 21:37:53 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:37:53 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021190017.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211550.00111.sniffy@rogers.com> <55498.209.29.34.110.1098453805.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <96aa4e8f041022142420d05e1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000601c4b87f$75291300$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> According to SuSE the booting issues are related to the way Linux sees the geometry of the disk versus how the BIOS sees it. You can view this when doing a "fdisk -l" and compare with what you see from your BIOS when looking at the disk (cylinders, sectors, heads). More specifically if the first hard disk partition ends on cylinder 1024 or beyond, there might be a boot problem since there is also a 8GB limit on what the BIOS can "see" on a disk. Anyways, I installed the patch and everything is fine now. I installed the same distribution on a machine with a different brand 40 GB disk and motherboard with Windows 2003 Server and nothing went wrong. So it really depends on the BIOS/disk/partition combination. About the hanging boot, if you hit F2 while the green screen with the bar is displayed you will see all the messages coming up from the booting process, so you may see where it hangs (e.g. probing hardware, or trying to start a process). Fran?ois Ouellette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Igor Denisov" To: Sent: Friday, 22 October, 2004 17:24 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions > For some reason, although with a similar config, I haven't had this problem. > I am running dual boot, win 2k off a 40GB ata (c drive for windows) > and SUSE 9.1 off a 80 GB SATA, split evenly between Linux and > Windoze. So far (aka the last ~5-6 months), no problems booting into > win2k. > > However, on a related topic, my SUSE install doesn't always boot up, > just sort of hangs there with the progress bar stuck in the beginning, > no HD activity, nothing at all. After a restart, it boots up properly > and works fine. > At this point it boots up right ~95% of the time. Has anyone else had > this problem? Is there any sort of remedy? > > Igor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 21:55:07 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:55:07 -0400 Subject: Samba and Group permission Message-ID: smb.conf: [MyShare] comment = My Share Name browseable = yes path = /data/path printable = no public = no writable = yes create mode = 0770 inherit permissions = Yes inherit acls = Yes filesystem and kernel supports Posix ACL (XFS in this case) ACL settings: host# getfacl /data/path # file: /data/path # owner: user1 # group: users user::rwx group::r-x group:sharemain-write:rwx group:sharemain-read:r-x group:others-read:r-x mask::rwx other::--- default:user::rwx default:group::r-x default:group:sharemain-write:rwx default:group:sharemain-read:r-x default:group:others-read:r-x default:mask::rwx default:other::--- host# ls -ld /data/path drwxrws---+ 11 user1 users 4096 Oct 4 08:53 /data/path/ [Notice the '+' on the permissions? That means ACL is in use on that dir] The acl defaults cause all new files created to have those permissions, and multiple users are members of either sharemain-write, sharemain-read or others-read in this case where the ones in share-write can write to the files which are set writable by that group, the read group can read those files, and some subset of dirs and files are also added for group others-read. You can add as many groups and individual users to each file and dir as you want, and you can set defaults for dirs that apply to all newly created subdirs and files which then inherit the setting (and setfacl can propegate settings similar to chmod with recursive option too or you can pass info get getfacl to setfacl to copy the permissions of a dir to a set of files and dirs.) Overall this gives much finer control over samba shares since you can make any dir read/write, read only or not accessable to different users without having to create a group for each file or dir with a certain user combination with one unix group per combination (which is just too hard to maintain). In windows the acl groups even appear in windows as groups so you can see which groups have access to a file from windows, and to some extent even control it the same way you would with groups and users on a windows server. Lennart Sorensen I'll try defining my problem again... I have a linux server with samba installed on it. I have created a group in /etc/group let's say user ME and HIM for group FULLACCESS. I also have user SOMEONEELSE. Now, I want user SOMEONEELSE to have access to files in a directory called MEDIA but just for read. For this purpose, I will have to change the other's perms to r--. No problem there. Now, I want to have users ME and HIM from group FULLACCESS to have read-write access to the files in directory MEDIA so I set the group of the directory to MEDIA. I then change the the group mode to rwx. Now, on my other linux box, using NIS, I log on with user ME. I try mounting the samba share MEDIA. The problem is that I do not have write permissions to this directory. WHY? I am part of a group that has write permissions to the directoy. I do not own said file. It would appear that the "other" permissions are applied in this case since samba doesn't seem to honor the fact that the user is part of multiple groups. I've also tried setting the smb.conf file with the folowing: [media] comment = The media valid users = @FULLACCESS writable = yes path = /home/media but that didn't seem to work either. I don't understand why samba would behave like this! Can anyone tell me how I can get samba to honor the other groups users belong to? Or is it something else I'm not looking at? Martin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 23:25:29 2004 From: arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Arpad Toth) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samba and Group permission In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041022232529.87634.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Hi, I would create a group first, i.e groupadd share add this grp to users you want to be under samba share.. usermod -G share usermod -G share check if they have their own grp and the "share" i.e id , it should show all grps the uid has. create /home/share or whatever u want... now, change permission on /home/share to 2770, chgrp share on it, so it might be root:share /home/share actually we did the biggest part :) then create the share dir in smb.conf bring up samba, enjoy... regards, RP --- Martin Duclos wrote: > Martin Duclos wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >I am running a samba 3.0.4-1 server. I want to > create groups so that I can > >control which user has access to which file. SO, I > create a new group by > >editing the /etc/group file. I add the users which > are to belong to that > >group. I modify the group permission on the files I > want the users of said > >group to have access to. One of the client machines > is a linux machine (but > >I suspect the same problem will show up on a win > machine). What I'm seeing > >is that the owner of the share only has it's > deafult group associated with > >it. I've been reading through the samba docs and > man pages but I haven't > >found a solution yet. There must be some way to > have a user be part of > >multiple groups and have samba respect those - or > is it just wishful > >thinking? Any ideas? > > > >Thanks > > > >Martin Duclos > > > > > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > Try using ACL > > http://www.bluelightning.org/linux/samba_acl_howto/ > > I fail to see how this how to would help. I've read > all of it and I haven't > seen anything that directly relates to this problem > with an explanation and > how to fix it. Any ideas as to how I can solve my > problem? > > Martin > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 23:25:28 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:25:28 -0400 Subject: hotplug is cold ?! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417996E8.2050903@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Try Peter L. Peres wrote: | | | | loads a blank page. Huh ? | | Peter | -- | The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org | TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns | How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBeZbnRreNkzrRRLQRAvsgAJ4k9ALOKKIJmPKjykgn62AwIQRQiACfUmcm g32BsnkPa7L0CatnttDePJM= =luSP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 23:40:00 2004 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 02:40:00 +0300 Subject: Samba and Group permission Message-ID: well, be careful about usermod, it will remove the user from its current group membership if the current groups that the user is member of are not listed on the -G group list. I created a small script to add a user to a group in addition to the current ones at my work. If you think you will find the script helpful, I will post it for you on Monday. cheers, EK ----Original Message Follows---- From: Arpad Toth <arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Samba and Group permission Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Hi, I would create a group first, i.e groupadd share add this grp to users you want to be under samba share.. usermod -G share <user1> usermod -G share <user2> check if they have their own grp and the "share" i.e id <user1>, it should show all grps the uid has. create /home/share or whatever u want... now, change permission on /home/share to 2770, chgrp share on it, so it might be root:share /home/share actually we did the biggest part :) then create the share dir in smb.conf bring up samba, enjoy... regards, RP --- Martin Duclos <tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote: > Martin Duclos wrote: > > >Hi All, > > > >I am running a samba 3.0.4-1 server. I want to > create groups so that I can > >control which user has access to which file. SO, I > create a new group by > >editing the /etc/group file. I add the users which > are to belong to that > >group. I modify the group permission on the files I > want the users of said > >group to have access to. One of the client machines > is a linux machine (but > >I suspect the same problem will show up on a win > machine). What I'm seeing > >is that the owner of the share only has it's > deafult group associated with > >it. I've been reading through the samba docs and > man pages but I haven't > >found a solution yet. There must be some way to > have a user be part of > >multiple groups and have samba respect those - or > is it just wishful > >thinking? Any ideas? > > > >Thanks > > > >Martin Duclos > > > > > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > Try using ACL > > http://www.bluelightning.org/linux/samba_acl_howto/ > > I fail to see how this how to would help. I've read > all of it and I haven't > seen anything that directly relates to this problem > with an explanation and > how to fix it. Any ideas as to how I can solve my > problem? > > Martin > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.com/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 23:57:59 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:57:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Keymap for French-canadian keyboard In-Reply-To: <417996E8.2050903-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <417996E8.2050903@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <1071.209.161.241.29.1098489479.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Hi gang, Does anyone have, or know where I can get a hold of a functional keymap file for a French-canadian keyboard, with sticky-key functions (including a "Alt Car" key to create accented characters, and the "?" in place of the "/" key? I found a few things on the web but they do not seem to work well. I Use SuSE. Thanks, Fran?ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 22 21:38:41 2004 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:38:41 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f041022142420d05e1d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <200410192239.52193.sniffy@rogers.com> <200410211301.51076.sniffy@rogers.com> <20041021190017.GW8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200410211550.00111.sniffy@rogers.com> <55498.209.29.34.110.1098453805.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <96aa4e8f041022142420d05e1d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I've got a laptop (Dell Inspiron 7500) that does the same thing. I'm pretty sure that it is a hardware issue, not a linux issue. -Joseph- On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:24:32 -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > For some reason, although with a similar config, I haven't had this problem. > I am running dual boot, win 2k off a 40GB ata (c drive for windows) > and SUSE 9.1 off a 80 GB SATA, split evenly between Linux and > Windoze. So far (aka the last ~5-6 months), no problems booting into > win2k. > > However, on a related topic, my SUSE install doesn't always boot up, > just sort of hangs there with the progress bar stuck in the beginning, > no HD activity, nothing at all. After a restart, it boots up properly > and works fine. > At this point it boots up right ~95% of the time. Has anyone else had > this problem? Is there any sort of remedy? > > Igor > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 05:41:50 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 01:41:50 -0400 Subject: Sympatico slow In-Reply-To: References: <41759129.60600@rogers.com> <20041019190829.7a291fc8.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20041020155802.GP8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20041023054150.GB30117@m450> On Wed, Oct 20, 2004 at 04:05:47PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote > > On Wed, 20 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >of the router. That should take care of most of it. I suggest NOT > >using your sympatico email address to sign up with another ISP of > >course. > > Why not ? I thought the red carpets of opportunity are redder for punters > who ride the 'wrong horse'. Or are they ? You seem to be an optimist who has never experienced Murphy's Law in action. Here's a scenario... - You are joe_blow-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org - You decide to switch to some other ISP, bad.example.com, where your address will be joe_blow-j30rFtiH+aqnzT0iUeSTvQ at public.gmane.org - Assume that there is a problem of some sort in your setup after you cancel sympatico - Your new ISP will send email with instructions to... where... ??? If you're half-decently serious about connectivity, get a totally separate low-cost backup dialup account. And since you're changing email addresses anyway, now is the time to register a personal domain, even if it's only a cheap re-direction service. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 09:09:01 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 05:09:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hotplug is cold ?! In-Reply-To: <417996E8.2050903-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <417996E8.2050903@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 22 Oct 2004, Anton Markov wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Try That fixed it. Thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 11:26:22 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 07:26:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: missing disk change notification in 2.4 kernels ? Message-ID: Hi all, in 2.2 and earlier kernels, insertion of media into a drive would send a notification event to syslog. This does not happen anymore with 2.4 kernels ? What is the equivalent option ? E.g. how do I cause media insertion to cause a hotplug or equivalent event in a 2.4 series kernel (preferrably without recompiling the kernel) ? I have looked into kernel documentation but no clues so far. I did not look at the source yet. thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 13:17:54 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:17:54 -0400 Subject: Keymap for French-canadian keyboard Message-ID: HI Francois, I'm not sure if this will help much, but I've used a little applet (try adding something to your taskbar) that I found called key map or something like that. Anyhow, you can then choose which keyboard you want to use. The french one had the proper layout and you could switch, just like in windoze, layout with alt+shift. Hope this helps! Martin Hi gang, Does anyone have, or know where I can get a hold of a functional keymap file for a French-canadian keyboard, with sticky-key functions (including a "Alt Car" key to create accented characters, and the "??" in place of the "/" key? I found a few things on the web but they do not seem to work well. I Use SuSE. Thanks, Fran??ois Ouellette -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 13:21:54 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 09:21:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Keymap for French-canadian keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1066.209.161.241.29.1098537714.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Thanks for the tip, it's mostly for the KDE and OpenOffice part, when going directly to console (Ctrl Alt F1) the characters seem to be correct even when un US mode. I'll follow up. Fran?ois Ouellette > HI Francois, > > I'm not sure if this will help much, but I've used a little applet (try > adding something to your taskbar) that I found called key map or something > like that. Anyhow, you can then choose which keyboard you want to use. The > french one had the proper layout and you could switch, just like in > windoze, > layout with alt+shift. Hope this helps! > > Martin > > Hi gang, > > Does anyone have, or know where I can get a hold of a functional keymap > file for a French-canadian keyboard, with sticky-key functions (including > a "Alt Car" key to create accented characters, and the "?" in place of the > "/" key? > > I found a few things on the web but they do not seem to work well. I Use > SuSE. > > Thanks, > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 14:37:30 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:37:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Keymap for French-canadian keyboard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <32789.209.161.241.29.1098542250.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Got it to work... Was easy through the KDE Control Center! Just add the layout and voil?: everything works fine! There is a icon in the system tray where we can switch from one layout to another. I am still learning... Linux is amazing. Fran?ois Ouellette > HI Francois, > > I'm not sure if this will help much, but I've used a little applet (try > adding something to your taskbar) that I found called key map or something > like that. Anyhow, you can then choose which keyboard you want to use. The > french one had the proper layout and you could switch, just like in > windoze, > layout with alt+shift. Hope this helps! > > Martin > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 15:45:58 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 11:45:58 -0400 Subject: .pdf --> .doc ? In-Reply-To: <20041022205337.GA1719-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041022205337.GA1719@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <417A7CB6.8010002@sympatico.ca> William Park wrote: > How do convert a PDF file to Word doc file? Eg. resume.pdf into > resume.doc. It's unlikely you'll get anything of the original document structure back. Word spacing, paragraph breaks and character encoding may be completely blown away by PDF encoding. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 16:01:40 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 12:01:40 -0400 Subject: missing disk change notification in 2.4 kernels ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <417A8064.7090005@truxtar.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > in 2.2 and earlier kernels, insertion of media into a drive would send a > notification event to syslog. This does not happen anymore with 2.4 > kernels ? What is the equivalent option ? E.g. how do I cause media > insertion to cause a hotplug or equivalent event in a 2.4 series kernel > (preferrably without recompiling the kernel) ? I have looked into kernel > documentation but no clues so far. I did not look at the source yet. If you are talking about CD-ROM/floppy drives, then I don't think there is such a mechanism any more. I think there is a sysfs variable that can be queried for this information, but you still have to check the variable yourself. Of course I could be wrong. If you are just looking for a way to automatically mount the media, there are still kernel supermount patches floating around on the net. They are not perfect, but will allow you to use a CD/Floppy without using mount/unmount commands (much like Windows). For the 2.6 kernels, Con Kolivas has an up-to-date supermount patch on his patch page: Follow the "all patches" link, look for the desired kernel version, and look in the "patches" directory for the separate supermount patch. I am not sure where to get supermount for the 2.4 kernel. Note: I've heard a lot of people having various problems with supermount. I've personally never had a problem with it (except that it takes a long time to check my DVD drive for media), but there are probably good reasons it was not included in the stock kernel. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 17:01:15 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: missing disk change notification in 2.4 kernels ? In-Reply-To: <417A8064.7090005-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <417A8064.7090005@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 23 Oct 2004, Anton Markov wrote: > Peter L. Peres wrote: >> in 2.2 and earlier kernels, insertion of media into a drive would send a >> notification event to syslog. This does not happen anymore with 2.4 >> kernels ? What is the equivalent option ? E.g. how do I cause media >> insertion to cause a hotplug or equivalent event in a 2.4 series kernel >> (preferrably without recompiling the kernel) ? I have looked into kernel >> documentation but no clues so far. I did not look at the source yet. > > If you are talking about CD-ROM/floppy drives, then I don't think there is > such a mechanism any more. I think there is a sysfs variable that can be > queried for this information, but you still have to check the variable > yourself. Of course I could be wrong. Ow. Apparently you are right ;-( > If you are just looking for a way to automatically mount the media, there are > still kernel supermount patches floating around on the net. They are not > perfect, but will allow you to use a CD/Floppy without using mount/unmount > commands (much like Windows). I need something that exists in stock kernels (2.4). I cannot rely on patching the kernel or recompiling it. > For the 2.6 kernels, Con Kolivas has an up-to-date supermount patch on his > patch page: > > Follow the "all patches" link, look for the desired kernel version, and look > in the "patches" directory for the separate supermount patch. Ok, thanks. I will look at it anyway. > I am not sure where to get supermount for the 2.4 kernel. > > Note: I've heard a lot of people having various problems with supermount. > I've personally never had a problem with it (except that it takes a long time > to check my DVD drive for media), but there are probably good reasons it was > not included in the stock kernel. The historical reason was that media detection was broken in many drives. This may still be true. You would have things like cdroms not detecting disk change under certain conditions and floppies that would double detect media changes and such. This is not an easy thing to do because these devices do not have a builtin mechanism for signalling media change. In most cases it needs to be polled, by the kernel, or in user space. You said for yourself, that your system takes a long time to detect a new media insertion. If this worries you, the competition can take up to 10 seconds to identify and initialise interfaces for, f.ex. a IEEE1394 device. (by competition I mean XP). thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 22:28:47 2004 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) ) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:28:47 -0400 Subject: .pdf --> .doc ? In-Reply-To: <20041022205337.GA1719-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041022205337.GA1719@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200410231828.48017.marc@lijour.net> Le Vendredi 22 Octobre 2004 16:53, William Park a ?crit : > How do convert a PDF file to Word doc file? Eg. resume.pdf into > resume.doc. pdf2txt then reformat in OOo -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 22:53:34 2004 From: arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Arpad Toth) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:53:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Samba and Group permission In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041023225334.28064.qmail@web50608.mail.yahoo.com> hi EK, you are correct about any supplementary grp. but -G won't remove user's original grp id. For sure I always mean think first and try after :) Well, thx for the script but send it to the orig author of the thread.... ciao RP --- E K wrote: > > well, be careful about usermod, it will remove the > user from its current > group membership if the current groups that the user > is member of are not > listed on the -G group list. > > I created a small script to add a user to a group in > addition to the current > ones at my work. If you think you will find the > script helpful, I will post > it for you on Monday. > > cheers, > > EK > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: Arpad Toth <arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Samba and Group permission > Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 19:25:29 -0400 (EDT) > > Hi, > > I would create a group first, > i.e > groupadd share > > add this grp to users you want to be under samba > share.. > > usermod -G share <user1> > usermod -G share <user2> > > check if they have their own grp and the > "share" > i.e > id <user1>, it should show all grps the uid > has. > create /home/share or whatever u want... > now, change permission on /home/share > to 2770, chgrp share on it, so it might be > root:share /home/share > actually we did the biggest part :) > then create the share dir in smb.conf > bring up samba, enjoy... > > regards, > > RP > > > --- Martin Duclos <tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> > wrote: > > Martin Duclos wrote: > > > > >Hi All, > > > > > >I am running a samba 3.0.4-1 server. I > want to > > create groups so that I can > > >control which user has access to which > file. SO, I > > create a new group by > > >editing the /etc/group file. I add the > users which > > are to belong to that > > >group. I modify the group permission on the > files I > > want the users of said > > >group to have access to. One of the client > machines > > is a linux machine (but > > >I suspect the same problem will show up on > a win > > machine). What I'm seeing > > >is that the owner of the share only has > it's > > deafult group associated with > > >it. I've been reading through the samba > docs and > > man pages but I haven't > > >found a solution yet. There must be some > way to > > have a user be part of > > >multiple groups and have samba respect > those - or > > is it just wishful > > >thinking? Any ideas? > > > > > >Thanks > > > > > >Martin Duclos > > > > > > > > >-- > > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. > Meetings: > > http://tlug.ss.org > > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap > text > > below 80 columns > > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > Try using ACL > > > > > http://www.bluelightning.org/linux/samba_acl_howto/ > > > > I fail to see how this how to would help. I've > read > > all of it and I haven't > > seen anything that directly relates to this > problem > > with an explanation and > > how to fix it. Any ideas as to how I can solve > my > > problem? > > > > Martin > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > _________________________________________________________________ > Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! > Download today it's FREE! > http://messenger.msn.com/ > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 22:57:56 2004 From: arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Arpad Toth) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 18:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041023225756.27301.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> hi, any info, warning in logs (dmesg, messages)? I am not familiar with suse, what progress bar do u mean? Is it when X already started? Or? RP --- Joseph Kubik wrote: > I've got a laptop (Dell Inspiron 7500) that does the > same thing. I'm > pretty sure that it is a hardware issue, not a linux > issue. > -Joseph- > > > On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 17:24:32 -0400, Igor Denisov > wrote: > > For some reason, although with a similar config, I > haven't had this problem. > > I am running dual boot, win 2k off a 40GB ata (c > drive for windows) > > and SUSE 9.1 off a 80 GB SATA, split evenly > between Linux and > > Windoze. So far (aka the last ~5-6 months), no > problems booting into > > win2k. > > > > However, on a related topic, my SUSE install > doesn't always boot up, > > just sort of hangs there with the progress bar > stuck in the beginning, > > no HD activity, nothing at all. After a restart, > it boots up properly > > and works fine. > > At this point it boots up right ~95% of the time. > Has anyone else had > > this problem? Is there any sort of remedy? > > > > Igor > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 23 23:56:13 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions In-Reply-To: <20041023225756.27301.qmail-INeKS0B+6hiA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20041023225756.27301.qmail@web50602.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <32841.209.161.241.29.1098575773.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> When the green screen is displayed while Linux boots, you can hit F2 to see the boot messages. Fran?ois Ouellette > hi, > > any info, warning in logs (dmesg, messages)? > I am not familiar with suse, what progress bar do u > mean? Is it when X already started? Or? > > RP > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 01:19:46 2004 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 21:19:46 -0400 Subject: LF Simple but functional local and remote linux system monitoring In-Reply-To: <41792365.7010107-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <41792365.7010107@knet.ca> Message-ID: <1098580786.12211.5.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 11:12, Teddy Mills wrote: > Isnt there a more simple and easy to use system monitoring tool out > there, that is > > 1) reasonably easy to install > 2) preferrably doesnt require SNMP, or Perl modules, or other gotcha's > that you have to go search, install and get working > 3) can remotely monitor several linux and windows servers... > 4) is web based and can provide graphs > > I understand if I dont use SNMP, then I have to go with a less accurate > polling monitoring system. > I dont care, as long as it works. I'm not sure what you wish to accomplish, but you might wish to look at http://perimeter911.com -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 14:26:40 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:26:40 -0400 Subject: Slacware 10 Issues Message-ID: <31f5947d04102407264ba47b25@mail.gmail.com> I just recently installed slackware 10 on my laptop. The screen resolution was off, so I changed it in the xorg.conf. However, I still have a scrolling screen. Anybody know how to change this? Another problem is my Internet. I have a pcmcia liksys Ethernet card installed, linux recognizes it in slot one, but for some reason isnt connecting. My linksys router also sees the slackware box on, but again the Internet isn't connected. Thanks allot, -- - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 16:09:55 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 12:09:55 -0400 Subject: Gecko-based browsers seg fault Message-ID: <20041024160955.GA3924@neko.afraid.org> I have been experiencing a maddening problem with gecko based browsers. When I try to access certain sites, including a site I need for school, the browser immediately seg faults. For example, if I try to access http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002CDOCW/qid=1097523592/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/249-0718652-1413918 my browser crashes. This problem is affecting: mozilla 1.73, firefox 1.0_pre-r2, and ephiphany 1.4.4. I _can_ access the sites using konqueror from kde 3.3.1. I am running gentoo. I don't think the problem with the browsers is due to running crazy USE flags. The problem occurs even when I use pre-compiled browsers. I am using utf8 locales. If it would be helpful, I can post the results of locale. According to strace, the last files accessed before seg fault are glibc.mo in in the respective locale subdirs. The file is not found. The segfault error is a divide by 0 error. Does the above link work for people on this list? Can anyone recommend further troubleshooting? I have posted to gentoo's bugzilla. This problem is fast becoming a show stopper. Noah -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 17:17:04 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 13:17:04 -0400 Subject: .pdf --> .doc ? In-Reply-To: <20041022205337.GA1719-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041022205337.GA1719@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20041024171704.GY8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 22, 2004 at 04:53:37PM -0400, William Park wrote: > How do convert a PDF file to Word doc file? Eg. resume.pdf into > resume.doc. Remember: PDF is a destination language, not really meant for editing and certainyl not an intermediate format. Like postscript (which it is based on) it is optimized for just one purpose and throws away a lot of meta information it doesn't need. Don't throw away your original resume file. And converting someone else's resume to word just isn't likely to be an option automatically. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 18:14:14 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:14:14 -0400 Subject: Gecko-based browsers seg fault In-Reply-To: <20041024160955.GA3924-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041024160955.GA3924@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <417BF0F6.6050908@truxtar.com> Noah John Gellner wrote: > I have been experiencing a maddening problem with gecko based browsers. > When I try to access certain sites, including a site I need for school, > the browser immediately seg faults. For example, if I try to access > http://www.amazon.co.jp/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0002CDOCW/qid=1097523592/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_8_1/249-0718652-1413918 > my browser crashes. This problem is affecting: mozilla 1.73, firefox > 1.0_pre-r2, and ephiphany 1.4.4. I _can_ access the sites using > konqueror from kde 3.3.1. > > Does the above link work for people on this list? Can anyone recommend > further troubleshooting? I have posted to gentoo's bugzilla. This > problem is fast becoming a show stopper. It works for me on a Mozilla Foundation binary of Mozilla Firefox PR1. The website does appear to use a lot of Japanese/asian characters. I use US_en as my system locale and Firefox reports that the site uses "Shift_JIS" encoding. I am running Debian Unstable. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 18:25:52 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:25:52 -0400 Subject: Gecko-based browsers seg fault In-Reply-To: <417BF0F6.6050908-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041024160955.GA3924@neko.afraid.org> <417BF0F6.6050908@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20041024182552.GA9012@neko.afraid.org> Thank you for the confirmation. I suspect that somewhere in gentoo-land something squirrely is happening with locales. On the forums I see a lot of seg fault problems from international users. I am planning to move my laptop to ubuntu. On 14:14 Sun 24 Oct , Anton Markov wrote: > It works for me on a Mozilla Foundation binary of Mozilla Firefox PR1. > The website does appear to use a lot of Japanese/asian characters. I use > US_en as my system locale and Firefox reports that the site uses > "Shift_JIS" encoding. I am running Debian Unstable. > > -- > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> > > GnuPG Key fingerprint = > 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 > > *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 18:50:19 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 14:50:19 -0400 Subject: Gecko-based browsers seg fault In-Reply-To: <20041024160955.GA3924-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041024160955.GA3924@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <417BF96B.3010406@sympatico.ca> Noah John Gellner wrote: > > Does the above link work for people on this list? Works fine on both my gentoo boxes. My desktop machine -- which isn't doiung Unicode too well -- shows the glyphs as hex digits, but the laptop's doing the correct kanji/hiragana/katakana thing. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 20:19:06 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:19:06 -0400 Subject: Keymap for French-canadian keyboard In-Reply-To: <1071.209.161.241.29.1098489479.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <417996E8.2050903@truxtar.com> <1071.209.161.241.29.1098489479.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <200410241619.06905.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 22 October 2004 19:57, Francois Ouellette wrote: > Does anyone have, or know where I can get a hold of a functional keymap > file for a French-canadian keyboard, with sticky-key functions (including > a "Alt Car" key to create accented characters, and the "?" in place of the > "/" key? > > I found a few things on the web but they do not seem to work well. I Use > SuSE. You can use the setxkbmap command, in your case it would probably be: setxkbmap ca_enhanced Stick this in your personal X startup files and you should get the correct keyboard mappings whether you're running KDE, some other window manager or no window manager. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 24 20:24:39 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 16:24:39 -0400 Subject: Keymap for French-canadian keyboard References: <417996E8.2050903@truxtar.com> <1071.209.161.241.29.1098489479.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> <200410241619.06905.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <001001c4ba07$8ea2fc40$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> Actually, with the Control Center of KDE everything has come up together fine. Thanks, Fran?ois Ouellette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fraser Campbell" To: Sent: Sunday, 24 October, 2004 16:19 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Keymap for French-canadian keyboard On Friday 22 October 2004 19:57, Francois Ouellette wrote: > Does anyone have, or know where I can get a hold of a functional keymap > file for a French-canadian keyboard, with sticky-key functions (including > a "Alt Car" key to create accented characters, and the "?" in place of the > "/" key? > > I found a few things on the web but they do not seem to work well. I Use > SuSE. You can use the setxkbmap command, in your case it would probably be: setxkbmap ca_enhanced Stick this in your personal X startup files and you should get the correct keyboard mappings whether you're running KDE, some other window manager or no window manager. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 25 02:01:40 2004 From: arpadtoth-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Arpad Toth) Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SuSE 9.1 and large Windows partitions In-Reply-To: <32841.209.161.241.29.1098575773.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <32841.209.161.241.29.1098575773.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20041025020140.97764.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> Ok and where it stops? --- Francois Ouellette wrote: > When the green screen is displayed while Linux > boots, you can hit F2 to > see the boot messages. > > Fran??ois Ouellette > > > > hi, > > > > any info, warning in logs (dmesg, messages)? > > I am not familiar with suse, what progress bar do > u > > mean? Is it when X already started? Or? > > > > RP > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 25 04:00:09 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 00:00:09 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu and startup Message-ID: <1098676809.15074.20.camel@neko.afraid.org> After my ongoing Mozilla problems I switched my laptop to Ubuntu. So far so good. My only problem is that the boot up takes forever. Of particular problem is having the process wait for network to be configured, which can take a long time or indeed might not happen at all. I know how to change this in Gentooland, but have no idea in Ubunto-Debian-ville. Can anyone on this list let me know or direct to information? Much obliged. Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 25 13:52:11 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 09:52:11 -0400 Subject: Sympatico getting real slow?-- Is it mostly the email send/receive that is slow??? In-Reply-To: <006e01c4b697$10adf790$1b00a8c0@cruncher> References: <20041018223508.781fc6ed.joehill@sympatico.ca> <006e01c4b697$10adf790$1b00a8c0@cruncher> Message-ID: <417D050B.1000904@knet.ca> Is it mostly the email send/receive that is slow??? Mike Kirk wrote: >>I've been putting off ditching Sympatico, but I'm curious, are other >> >> >Sympatico > > >>subscribers noticing a severe slowdown/timeouts recently? >> >>I don't relish having to change all my e-mail subscriptions, but I'm >> >> >thinkin' > > >>it's time to call Ralph. >> >> > >I'm at Yonge + Eglinton and my connections have been consistently fast. I >watch things pretty closely with MRTG and IOG, so if I got any kind of >severe drop (i.e. 5 KB/s as one poster suggested) I'd notice. > >I switched to Sympatico about a year ago now. At the time I had been a cable >customer for years (first in London, then Yonge + Finch, then Yonge + >Eglinton) and although cable was OK, DSL at the time offered higher upload >speeds... so I switched. I've been happy with Sympatico, other than for >awhile when I switched to Ultra and the connection would reset (and thus my >IP as well) up to a dozen times a day. Dropping back to 3000/800 solved the >problem (an honestly the extra 1000 download wasn't worth it). > >Anyways that's my little story... :) > > Mike > > > > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 25 14:18:05 2004 From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:18:05 -0400 Subject: Sympatico getting slow Message-ID: <417D0B1D.5070101@sympatico.ca> Teddy Mills wrote: > Is it mostly the email send/receive that is slow??? Yes. Last night for example it took 4.5 minutes to send a plain text email to a friend in Texas. Downloading large files like ISOs etc seems to be unaffected. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 25 14:23:53 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 10:23:53 -0400 Subject: Slacware 10 Issues In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04102407264ba47b25-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <31f5947d04102407264ba47b25@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 10:26:40 -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > I just recently installed slackware 10 on my laptop. The screen > resolution was off, so I changed it in the xorg.conf. However, I > still have a scrolling screen. Anybody know how to change this? X tends to set the video framebuffer to the highest resolution it finds in the file, regardless of what it actually uses to display on the screen. That's why you get the scrolling effect. If you remove all mention of resolutions other than the one that you want (assuming that the one that you want is the correct one), that should fix the problem. The most notable parts would be a Modes mode above what you actually want, or a ViewPort above what you want (just set it to 0 0 as below for automatic). My config file looks more like: Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen 1" Device "7500" Monitor "LCD" DefaultDepth 24 Subsection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1024x768" ViewPort 0 0 EndSubsection EndSection NB: This is for XFree86, not XOrg, but I don't think that this section has changed all that much between releases. If you're looking to have actual resizing of the framebuffer, look into the RandR (Rotate and Resize) extension. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Mon Oct 25 15:35:09 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 11:35:09 -0400 Subject: Sympatico getting slow--my 2 cents In-Reply-To: <417D0B1D.5070101-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <417D0B1D.5070101@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <417D1D2D.6040509@knet.ca> Well i use to have this problem like 2 years ago with Sympaticos email servers... Just like you said..Receiving email often not a problem, but sending email, their SMTP servers were sometimes impossible. I changed from an Airport Base Station to a SMC Barricade, and this greatly improved SMTP sending. Sympatico doest want to discuss anything that is behind a NAT, or not their equipment (a quick and easy cop-out, rather than saying their port 25 filtering and email servers are too loaded down and is still messed up) And the fact they dont allow any other SMTP outs other than their own, just means more SMTP problems for them and their clients. I would have though they would have fixed this up by now!!! Anyways, either go with web-based email, or ditch Sympatico and find another provider with a better SMTP solution. Or if your truly daring..get a local static ip server and setup your own postfix or qmail server! That'll be quite the learning experience! :) John McGregor wrote: > Teddy Mills wrote: > >> Is it mostly the email send/receive that is slow??? > > > > Yes. Last night for example it took 4.5 minutes to send a plain text > email to a friend in Texas. Downloading large files like ISOs etc > seems to be unaffected. > > John > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 02:55:05 2004 From: skrishnan-PeCUgM4zDv73fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Srinivasan Krishnan) Date: Mon, 25 Oct 2004 22:55:05 -0400 Subject: Sympatico getting slow--my 2 cents In-Reply-To: <417D1D2D.6040509-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417D0B1D.5070101@sympatico.ca> <417D1D2D.6040509@knet.ca> Message-ID: <1098759305.2169.12.camel@ambipapa> On Mon, 2004-10-25 at 11:35, Teddy Mills wrote: > Well i use to have this problem like 2 years ago with Sympaticos email > servers... > Just like you said..Receiving email often not a problem, but sending > email, their SMTP servers were sometimes impossible. I faced this problem on and off last year at my workplace, where we had Sympatico high speed DSL. The reason was the Sympatico SMTP servers, which would go down on a semi-regular basis. Calls to tech support at these times would invariably start with a prerecorded announcement of "temporary mail server problems", and talking to live tech support didn't help much either. Luckily, our Linux host based router/ firewall also ran a CIPE VPN to another location, which had a T1 line. I rerouted outgoing SMTP traffic to go through the VPN and set the SMTP server there to relay mail from our subnet, and we didn't have any mail issues at all after that. Cheers, Krishnan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 05:50:06 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 26 Oct 2004 01:50:06 -0400 Subject: Ubuntu and startup In-Reply-To: <1098676809.15074.20.camel-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098676809.15074.20.camel@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: Noah John Gellner writes: > After my ongoing Mozilla problems I switched my laptop to Ubuntu. So far > so good. My only problem is that the boot up takes forever. Of > particular problem is having the process wait for network to be > configured, which can take a long time or indeed might not happen at > all. I know how to change this in Gentooland, but have no idea in > Ubunto-Debian-ville. Can anyone on this list let me know or direct to > information? Much obliged. In vanilla Debian, you can CTRL-C network startup. This is useful if you have a notebook that is sometimes (dis)connected. Alternatively, you can write a pre-up script (in /etc/network/interfaces) that checks for connectivity using mii-tool. This only works with NICs and drivers with MII support. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 07:22:01 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:22:01 +1000 Subject: Ubuntu and startup In-Reply-To: <1098676809.15074.20.camel-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098676809.15074.20.camel@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <200410261722.01451.david@dingodave.cjb.net> You should be able to disable the relevant start up script(s) in /etc/rc2.d/ by changing the capital 'S' to a lowercase 's'. e.g. I disable sshd from starting on my laptop by renaming "S20ssh" to "s20ssh" This way is good for testing. You could also just delete the symlink :) -David On Monday 25 October 2004 14:00, Noah John Gellner wrote: > After my ongoing Mozilla problems I switched my laptop to Ubuntu. So far > so good. My only problem is that the boot up takes forever. Of > particular problem is having the process wait for network to be > configured, which can take a long time or indeed might not happen at > all. I know how to change this in Gentooland, but have no idea in > Ubunto-Debian-ville. Can anyone on this list let me know or direct to > information? Much obliged. > > Noah > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 09:04:34 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:04:34 +1000 Subject: Sympatico getting slow--my 2 cents In-Reply-To: <1098759305.2169.12.camel@ambipapa> References: <417D0B1D.5070101@sympatico.ca> <417D1D2D.6040509@knet.ca> <1098759305.2169.12.camel@ambipapa> Message-ID: <200410261904.34308.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Tuesday 26 October 2004 12:55, Srinivasan Krishnan wrote: > Luckily, our Linux host based router/ firewall also ran a CIPE VPN to > another location, which had a T1 line. I rerouted outgoing SMTP traffic > to go through the VPN and set the SMTP server there to relay mail from > our subnet, and we didn't have any mail issues at all after that. I route all my mail server connections (incoming and outgoing) over ssh back to the office. Gets around the problem of having to configure your server settings everytime you change networks and also protects my authentication (and mail data) from packet sniffing etc. when using WiFi. Regards, David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 13:12:08 2004 From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 09:12:08 -0400 Subject: Debian ignores /etc/profile Message-ID: <417E4D28.4070701@mineallmeyn.com> Hi TLUGgers, I recently upgraded my 2 months out of date debian unstable system and now it appears to have stopped reading /etc/profile on login by normal users. Root seems to pick up the environment variables set in there but no sign of them for lusers (and the file is a+r). Any ideas on how debian normally incorporates /etc/profile in startup/login, and why it might have broken for me? Thanks, Oliver -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 14:01:13 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:01:13 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! Message-ID: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> NOTICE; this is not (yet) for general distribution. Although not a secret (dude, you put it on a mailing list ??) this is a pre-announcement directed towards the TLUG membership. Big splashy press releases come later. Till then, let's just keep it amongst us geeks, shall we ? thanks Hello ! You might remember be from such popular threads as; "weather script" and "postscript purgatory" , but I'm posting today as the guy who made all that buzz last spring about the OSS-centric Caffe Bickford. Well, the dream is alive ! To recap, linuxcaffe (then Caffe Bickford) will be a friendly neighborhood place to get cappuccino, free (as in speach) software, music and more. Many months ago I brought this idea to TLUG and was met with several generous offers of help. I have had to surmount several major hurdles since then, (surprise) but I am happy to say that "I'm not dead yet !" and development is accelerating. A fusion of caffe, convenience store, sandwich counter, art gallery, juice bar, music/video store and software centre, linuxcaffe is a concept for the community, and is being designed for direct community involvement. The full spectrum of sales and services takes a few pages (with charts and arrows) to properly convey, but it's safe to say that there's something for everyone. The domain names linuxcaffe.com and linuxcaffe.ca have been registered, as has the ontario business name, and the renovations are taking shape, and the time for the code to hit the road. Now those of you who know me, know that I'm eclectic, enthusiastic, bringing both inspiration and perspiration to everything I do. My "day job" is cinematographer, with over 30 years of experience in "the biz". Those same people may also realize that I /could/ program my out of a paper bag, but it would have to be dampened first. An habitual computer user since the mid 80s (RadioShak TRS80 model100) my knowlege of computer systems is surprisingly broad, but not particularly deep. That's where /you/ come in ! Why would you want to spend some of your precious free time helping me put this thing together ? - You like the idea of a place with a twelve foot high penguin on the wall where you can get a good sandwich, and listen to cool tunes, and you want to be a part of it. - You think that if there were a place where average Joe could go to see linux in action, and walk away with a shiny CD full of OSS, it would go a long way to promote something you believe in. - You're a red hot programmer/ sysadmin/ artist and you'd like to make some money. These are but a few of the many reasons you might like to come and play. To that end I would like to propose that the next TLUG meeting (Nov 9th) be held at the caffe. It's at 326 Harbord (at Grace St) exactly 1 block south of Christie subway station. It will not be officialy open in two weeks, (lots still to do) but by then I will be able to offer a big room with up to 30 comfortable seats, and I'll bring coffee (not the good stuff, the espresso machine's not hooked up yet) and a projection screen (projector to follow). If enough interest is shown, beer could be had, too ! Heck, the bathroom plumbing might even be working ;-) ! If the topic/ speaker is already entrenched, that's fine, but if not, then perhaps I might suggest "linuxcaffe; the source of the code ?" The ball is now in your collective court. Thanks for thinking about it, David J Patrick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 14:22:51 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:22:51 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <31f5947d04102607223515412d@mail.gmail.com> "Why would you want to spend some of your precious free time helping me put this thing together ?" I'm 16, how can I help. I love the idea so much! On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:01:13 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > NOTICE; this is not (yet) for general distribution. Although not a > secret (dude, you put it on a mailing list ??) this is a > pre-announcement directed towards the TLUG membership. Big splashy press > releases come later. Till then, let's just keep it amongst us geeks, > shall we ? > > thanks > > Hello ! You might remember be from such popular threads as; "weather > script" and "postscript purgatory" , but I'm posting today as the guy > who made all that buzz last spring about the OSS-centric Caffe Bickford. > Well, the dream is alive ! > To recap, linuxcaffe (then Caffe Bickford) will be a friendly > neighborhood place to get cappuccino, free (as in speach) software, > music and more. Many months ago I brought this idea to TLUG and was met > with several generous offers of help. I have had to surmount several > major hurdles since then, (surprise) but I am happy to say that "I'm not > dead yet !" and development is accelerating. > A fusion of caffe, convenience store, sandwich counter, art gallery, > juice bar, music/video store and software centre, linuxcaffe is a > concept for the community, and is being designed for direct community > involvement. The full spectrum of sales and services takes a few pages > (with charts and arrows) to properly convey, but it's safe to say that > there's something for everyone. > The domain names linuxcaffe.com and linuxcaffe.ca have been > registered, as has the ontario business name, and the renovations are > taking shape, and the time for the code to hit the road. > Now those of you who know me, know that I'm eclectic, enthusiastic, > bringing both inspiration and perspiration to everything I do. My "day > job" is cinematographer, with over 30 years of experience in "the biz". > Those same people may also realize that I /could/ program my out of a > paper bag, but it would have to be dampened first. An habitual computer > user since the mid 80s (RadioShak TRS80 model100) my knowlege of > computer systems is surprisingly broad, but not particularly deep. > That's where /you/ come in ! > Why would you want to spend some of your precious free time helping > me put this thing together ? > - You like the idea of a place with a twelve foot high penguin on the > wall where you can get a good sandwich, and listen to cool tunes, and > you want to be a part of it. > - You think that if there were a place where average Joe could go to see > linux in action, and walk away with a shiny CD full of OSS, it would go > a long way to promote something you believe in. > - You're a red hot programmer/ sysadmin/ artist and you'd like to make > some money. > These are but a few of the many reasons you might like to come and > play. To that end I would like to propose that the next TLUG meeting > (Nov 9th) be held at the caffe. It's at 326 Harbord (at Grace St) > exactly 1 block south of Christie subway station. It will not be > officialy open in two weeks, (lots still to do) but by then I will be > able to offer a big room with up to 30 comfortable seats, and I'll bring > coffee (not the good stuff, the espresso machine's not hooked up yet) > and a projection screen (projector to follow). If enough interest is > shown, beer could be had, too ! Heck, the bathroom plumbing might even > be working ;-) ! > If the topic/ speaker is already entrenched, that's fine, but if not, > then perhaps I might suggest "linuxcaffe; the source of the code ?" > The ball is now in your collective court. Thanks for thinking about > it, > > David J Patrick -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 14:47:55 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:47:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Review of "Intermediate Robot Building" by David Cook In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041026144755.86721.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> At the last NewTLUG I got a copy of "Intermediate Robot Building" by David Cook, and promised that I would write a review of the book for the group, and here is what I have come up with: -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Review of "Intermediate Robot Building" by David Cook, Apress, 442 pages, $34.99 (U.S.). Review by Colin McGregor. "Circuit Cellar" magazine editor Steve Ciarcia once noted that his favourite programming language was solder, namely he loved putting electronic parts together, and any software to drive those parts was something of an afterthought. "Intermediate Robot Building" by David Cook follows in that same school, an emphasis on what parts to choose, why to choose them and making the required mechanical parts. Programming robots does not get a lot of space in this book. What this means is that if you don't already know the smell of flux (a cleaning compound used to help ensure good electrical connections) then this book is likely not for you. The author does touch on what diodes, resistors and capacitors are, but the explanation is brief so if your not familiar with these parts you will likely soon become very lost. The book does look at the steps involved in putting together a small "Roundabout" robot. In the first part of the book David Cook looks at the mechanical issues involved in small robot construction, part fabrication, and connecting motors to wheels. Next the book looks at basic electronic issues, power supplies, powering the motors, and an infrared obstacle detector. Then by the time we are over 2/3 of the way through the book all the preceding comes together in a simple stupid roundabout robot. To start with the robot will only move forward until it detects an obstacle, then it will turn. This is followed by a brief discussion about adding some intelligence to the robot. In the last part of the book looks at additional sensors for the robot and where to go further. Now, if you have done some electronic kit construction, or built some simple electronic circuits from scratch you should not have any trouble with this book. Assuming you have the above noted knowledge, then this book is highly recommended as the explanations are clear, and the explanations are useful. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 15:59:05 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 11:59:05 -0400 Subject: Debian ignores /etc/profile In-Reply-To: <417E4D28.4070701-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org> References: <417E4D28.4070701@mineallmeyn.com> Message-ID: <417E7449.5090301@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Oliver Meyn wrote: | Hi TLUGgers, | | I recently upgraded my 2 months out of date debian unstable system and | now it appears to have stopped reading /etc/profile on login by normal | users. Root seems to pick up the environment variables set in there but | no sign of them for lusers (and the file is a+r). Any ideas on how | debian normally incorporates /etc/profile in startup/login, and why it | might have broken for me? Well, assuming you're using bash (the default shell) the man page says: "When bash is invoked as an interactive login shell, or as a non-interactive shell with the --login option, it first reads and executes commands from the file /etc/profile, if that file exists. After reading that file, it looks for ~/.bash_profile, ~/.bash_login, and ~/.profile, in that order, and reads and executes commands from the first one that exists and is readable. The --noprofile option may be used when the shell is started to inhibit this behavior." I'd guess that you need to a+x it as well. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.5 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBfnRIgfzn5SevSpoRArbqAKCmaYBre7YrJld07PwiFk6FI9ZB8ACffT+X LMadb9JVFPeY3dcWVt42/t4= =RhJj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 16:06:11 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:06:11 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> David, Good idea, and I like the location too. I'll keep my eyes open next time I'm passing by. M Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 10:01:13 AM, you wrote: DJP> NOTICE; this is not (yet) for general distribution. Although not a DJP> secret (dude, you put it on a mailing list ??) this is a DJP> pre-announcement directed towards the TLUG membership. Big splashy press DJP> releases come later. Till then, let's just keep it amongst us geeks, DJP> shall we ? DJP> thanks DJP> Hello ! You might remember be from such popular threads as; "weather DJP> script" and "postscript purgatory" , but I'm posting today as the guy DJP> who made all that buzz last spring about the OSS-centric Caffe Bickford. DJP> Well, the dream is alive ! DJP> To recap, linuxcaffe (then Caffe Bickford) will be a friendly DJP> neighborhood place to get cappuccino, free (as in speach) software, DJP> music and more. Many months ago I brought this idea to TLUG and was met DJP> with several generous offers of help. I have had to surmount several DJP> major hurdles since then, (surprise) but I am happy to say that "I'm not DJP> dead yet !" and development is accelerating. DJP> A fusion of caffe, convenience store, sandwich counter, art gallery, DJP> juice bar, music/video store and software centre, linuxcaffe is a DJP> concept for the community, and is being designed for direct community DJP> involvement. The full spectrum of sales and services takes a few pages DJP> (with charts and arrows) to properly convey, but it's safe to say that DJP> there's something for everyone. DJP> The domain names linuxcaffe.com and linuxcaffe.ca have been DJP> registered, as has the ontario business name, and the renovations are DJP> taking shape, and the time for the code to hit the road. DJP> Now those of you who know me, know that I'm eclectic, enthusiastic, DJP> bringing both inspiration and perspiration to everything I do. My "day DJP> job" is cinematographer, with over 30 years of experience in "the biz". DJP> Those same people may also realize that I /could/ program my out of a DJP> paper bag, but it would have to be dampened first. An habitual computer DJP> user since the mid 80s (RadioShak TRS80 model100) my knowlege of DJP> computer systems is surprisingly broad, but not particularly deep. DJP> That's where /you/ come in ! DJP> Why would you want to spend some of your precious free time helping DJP> me put this thing together ? DJP> - You like the idea of a place with a twelve foot high penguin on the DJP> wall where you can get a good sandwich, and listen to cool tunes, and DJP> you want to be a part of it. DJP> - You think that if there were a place where average Joe could go to see DJP> linux in action, and walk away with a shiny CD full of OSS, it would go DJP> a long way to promote something you believe in. DJP> - You're a red hot programmer/ sysadmin/ artist and you'd like to make DJP> some money. DJP> These are but a few of the many reasons you might like to come and DJP> play. To that end I would like to propose that the next TLUG meeting DJP> (Nov 9th) be held at the caffe. It's at 326 Harbord (at Grace St) DJP> exactly 1 block south of Christie subway station. It will not be DJP> officialy open in two weeks, (lots still to do) but by then I will be DJP> able to offer a big room with up to 30 comfortable seats, and I'll bring DJP> coffee (not the good stuff, the espresso machine's not hooked up yet) DJP> and a projection screen (projector to follow). If enough interest is DJP> shown, beer could be had, too ! Heck, the bathroom plumbing might even DJP> be working ;-) ! DJP> If the topic/ speaker is already entrenched, that's fine, but if not, DJP> then perhaps I might suggest "linuxcaffe; the source of the code ?" DJP> The ball is now in your collective court. Thanks for thinking about DJP> it, DJP> David J Patrick -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 16:24:20 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:24:20 -0400 Subject: Debian and Groupware In-Reply-To: <20041019015159.GA7729-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041019015159.GA7729@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20041026162420.GG6816@smeagol> On Mon, Oct 18, 2004 at 09:51:59PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > I've been trying to get some groupware packages to work on my home > server, and so far I've met with zero success. I'm using Debian > testing, and followed the destructions for both kronolith (which is > Horde based) and phpgroupware, and *neither* one works at all. I'm sure I'm trying to get the Horde up and running on my server. Only partial luck so far... I've also made attempts with OpenGroupware.org but have made even less progress with that. emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 16:36:22 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:36:22 -0400 Subject: SUSE ISO files? Message-ID: Hi, Relating to tonight's newTLUG meeting (SUSE/Novell), does anyone know if SUSE setup CD's (ISO files) can be downloaded yet? Last I checked, the only *free* way to install from the net is if you have a broadband connection on the machine you'll be setting up. Thanks for any info. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 16:59:01 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:59:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: SUSE ISO files? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47726.209.29.34.110.1098809941.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> I downloaded the ISO file for the Personal Edition last week, it is on the SuSE download page. It fits on a 700MB CD and is bootable. http://www.suse.com/en/private/download/ftp/personal_iso_int.html The pages have changed since, there used to be a picture of a CD inviting the download of the free Personal Edition, but it looks like they want to encourage people to get the Professional Edition and pay for it now! It is still 700 MB to download through the internet though, so it is not really practical for a dial-up connection! The Personal Edition come complete with all of the KDE and OpenOffice tools, but it has no compiler, which you can download from the FTP page and add later. Fran?ois Ouellette > Hi, > > Relating to tonight's newTLUG meeting (SUSE/Novell), does anyone know > if SUSE setup CD's (ISO files) can be downloaded yet? Last I checked, > the only *free* way to install from the net is if you have a broadband > connection on the machine you'll be setting up. > > Thanks for any info. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 17:33:21 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (JAMES KNOTT) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:33:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Sympatico getting slow--my 2 cents In-Reply-To: <200410261904.34308.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <200410261904.34308.david@dingodave.cjb.net> Message-ID: <20041026173321.39113.qmail@web88004.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David Colebatch wrote: > On Tuesday 26 October 2004 12:55, Srinivasan > Krishnan wrote: > > Luckily, our Linux host based router/ firewall > also ran a CIPE VPN to > > another location, which had a T1 line. I rerouted > outgoing SMTP traffic > > to go through the VPN and set the SMTP server > there to relay mail from > > our subnet, and we didn't have any mail issues at > all after that. > > > I route all my mail server connections (incoming and > outgoing) over ssh back > to the office. > > Gets around the problem of having to configure your > server settings everytime > you change networks and also protects my > authentication (and mail data) from > packet sniffing etc. when using WiFi. I have a bit different setup. I have mail program configured to use my ISP, but when I'm away from home, I use a VPN to connect to my home network and set up the routing so that the mail is sent via the VPN, home network & cable modem, to the smtp server. I also have my own imap server at home. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 17:35:40 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:35:40 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04102607223515412d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102607223515412d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098812139.2791.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 10:22, Adam Raymond wrote: > "Why would you want to spend some of your precious free time helping > me put this thing together ?" > > I'm 16, how can I help. I love the idea so much! Alright Adam ! You can be the head of the enthusiasm department ! But seriously.. it's a big department, do you think you can handle it ;-) ? There are many things that need doing, from cleaning crap out of the basement, to hardware installation, to web development, to sales and promotions. What skills might you have, and what sort of thing do you like to do ? Stay in touch, feel free to contact me off list, thanks for the "word-up" ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 17:39:24 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:39:24 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <7899100.20041026120611-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 12:06, Matt Cahill wrote: > David, > > Good idea, and I like the location too. I'll keep my eyes open next > time I'm passing by. > > M Many thanks, Mr Cahill, I'll be varathaning floors for a couple of days, so unless you can hover, you can't come in. If you CAN hover, would you like to help with the varathaning ? ;) djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 17:46:28 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:46:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > These are but a few of the many reasons you might like to come and > play. To that end I would like to propose that the next TLUG meeting > (Nov 9th) be held at the caffe. It's at 326 Harbord (at Grace St) > exactly 1 block south of Christie subway station. It will not be > officialy open in two weeks, (lots still to do) but by then I will be > able to offer a big room with up to 30 comfortable seats, and I'll bring > coffee (not the good stuff, the espresso machine's not hooked up yet) > and a projection screen (projector to follow). If enough interest is > shown, beer could be had, too ! Heck, the bathroom plumbing might even > be working ;-) ! > If the topic/ speaker is already entrenched, that's fine, but if not, > then perhaps I might suggest "linuxcaffe; the source of the code ?" There is a speaker (I brief mention went out at the end of the last meeting announcement) but you could not follow-up with a brief discussion of Linuxcaffe. How do people feel about a change of venue for the November meeting? I can't make a ruling I just send the meeting announcements out :) Seriously though, how would it be if Linuxcaffe became the regular meeting venue? I'm just throwing this out as an idea which Patrick can feel free to object to :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 17:49:04 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:49:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > There is a speaker (I brief mention went out at the end of the last > meeting announcement) but you could not follow-up with a brief discussion > of Linuxcaffe. Ahm, I mean you _could_ follow-up with a brief discussion of Linuxcaffe. The word "not" is a relic of an earlier version of the sentence :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 18:02:03 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:02:03 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 01:46:28PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > > > These are but a few of the many reasons you might like to come and > > play. To that end I would like to propose that the next TLUG meeting > > (Nov 9th) be held at the caffe. It's at 326 Harbord (at Grace St) > > exactly 1 block south of Christie subway station. It will not be > There is a speaker (I brief mention went out at the end of the last > meeting announcement) but you could not follow-up with a brief discussion > of Linuxcaffe. > > How do people feel about a change of venue for the November meeting? I > can't make a ruling I just send the meeting announcements out :) > > Seriously though, how would it be if Linuxcaffe became the regular meeting > venue? I'm just throwing this out as an idea which Patrick can feel free > to object to :) I'm all for the change of venue. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 18:28:46 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:28:46 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098815325.2791.62.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 13:46, Robert Brockway wrote: > > There is a speaker (I brief mention went out at the end of the last > meeting announcement) but you could not follow-up with a brief discussion > of Linuxcaffe. Sound reasonable, who's the speaker, and what's the topic ? > > How do people feel about a change of venue for the November meeting? I > can't make a ruling I just send the meeting announcements out :) Understood. If we reach a consensus, super ! otherwise I'll just stump my way back to the ol' Galbraith bldg. (I went last time, to catch Emma Janes' talk, but as I didn't have the room number, I spent the better part of an hour walking the halls hoping to hear that penguin chatter. Eventually I gave up and skulked off to the GSU and by the time the merry troup came by, I had to go.) > > Seriously though, how would it be if Linuxcaffe became the regular meeting > venue? I'm just throwing this out as an idea which Patrick can feel free > to object to :) I must admit that I have been thinking along those lines as well. It's very easy to get to via TTC (1 block south of Christie subway, will seat about 30 (45, when the patio is going) Will have a projection screen, food, beer (once we get our license, and any time with special event lisence) WiFi, monitors in the ceiling, running linux (of course), the only thing it won't have is proprietary software ! (well, not from any convicted monopolists, anyway) I could close the doors to the (non TLUG) public every second Tuesday, if interest was demonstrable. > > Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 18:38:15 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:38:15 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041026180203.GA588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1098815894.2791.72.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:02, William Park wrote: > I'm all for the change of venue. Well folks, the Bash Baron himself has spoken. Anyone else ? The Prince of Perl ? kernel kaptains ? What of the ladies of linux ? Methinks the balance is a bit off. Any ideas to correct the ratio ? Lurking lasses please shout out ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 18:44:48 2004 From: leigh-9JL22WV9E8YEaWwO4Jh2dQ at public.gmane.org (Leigh Honeywell) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 14:44:48 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098815894.2791.72.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098815894.2791.72.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <417E9B20.6060003@geek-girls.ca> David J Patrick wrote: > Well folks, the Bash Baron himself has spoken. > >Anyone else ? The Prince of Perl ? kernel kaptains ? > >What of the ladies of linux ? >Methinks the balance is a bit off. >Any ideas to correct the ratio ? >Lurking lasses please shout out ! > >djp > this linuxgrrl votes for the new venue. and not just because it's closer to home than campus is :-) -Leigh -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 19:01:57 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:01:57 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098812363.2791.12.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1529760395.20041026150157@rogers.com> Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 1:39:24 PM, you wrote: DJP> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 12:06, Matt Cahill wrote: >> David, >> >> Good idea, and I like the location too. I'll keep my eyes open next >> time I'm passing by. >> >> M DJP> Many thanks, Mr Cahill, I'll be varathaning floors for a couple of days, DJP> so unless you can hover, you can't come in. DJP> If you CAN hover, would you like to help with the varathaning ? ;) DJP> djp Unfortunately, I've devoted my hovering skills to post-production. And at night I'm a crime fighter/lover, so unfortunately I think I will only be able to take part as a witness/customer. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "A corporatist society is organized precisely in order to marginalize ethics." - John Ralston Saul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 19:10:40 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:10:40 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1529760395.20041026150157-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1529760395.20041026150157@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1098817840.2791.102.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 15:01, Matt Cahill wrote: > Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 1:39:24 PM, you wrote: > DJP> If you CAN hover, would you like to help with the varathaning ? ;) > > DJP> djp > > Unfortunately, I've devoted my hovering skills to post-production. > And at night I'm a crime fighter/lover, Which is it ? You fight crime or love it ? Can't be both ! .. poor tormented soul ... > so unfortunately I think I > will only be able to take part as a witness/customer. We will need lots of those ! Especially the only-hover-to-save-the-plane-but otherwise-earthbound types ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 19:51:39 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 15:51:39 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: LinuxCaffe sounds like an awesome idea... just we need in Toronto! I wish you much success in this endeavour... enough to make it rewarding but not so much that you feel the need to sell out to a large American coffee chain... which would undoubtably switch everything to M$... Can't wait to drop by! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 19:05:48 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:05:48 -0300 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098817548.6309.24.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> > A fusion of caffe, convenience store, sandwich counter, art gallery, > juice bar, music/video store and software centre, linuxcaffe is a > concept for the community, and is being designed for direct community > involvement. The full spectrum of sales and services takes a few pages > (with charts and arrows) to properly convey, but it's safe to say that > there's something for everyone. Hey, This sounds like a great idea. Just a thought, and you may have already thought of this, but it might be a good idea to also sell OSS paraphernalia or rather geek paraphernalia from this place. You know, t-shirts,coffee mugs,hats,stickers and so on. Again, just a thought. Can't wait to see the finished product. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 20:27:51 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:27:51 -0400 Subject: RSS is the coolest Message-ID: <417EB347.3000603@knet.ca> Install this.... http://www.feedreader.com/ then get your RSS information resources at...... http://www.newsisfree.com/sources/bycat/ You'll be better informed than a CNN anchor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 20:27:59 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 16:27:59 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 10:01:13AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > A fusion of caffe, convenience store, sandwich counter, art > gallery, juice bar, music/video store and software centre, > linuxcaffe is a concept for the community, and is being designed > for direct community involvement. The full spectrum of sales and > services takes a few pages (with charts and arrows) to properly > convey, but it's safe to say that there's something for everyone. Toronto certain needs a place where people can go to buy linux CDs, especially for people new to Linux scene. Will you be installing computer stations much like "Internet Cafe" types? Thin-client is the canonical solution for this, and I can give a hand with that, if you like. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 20:54:10 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 26 Oct 2004 16:54:10 -0400 Subject: Review of "Intermediate Robot Building" by David Cook In-Reply-To: <20041026144755.86721.qmail-W5RQQfbthkOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041026144755.86721.qmail@web88212.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Colin McGregor writes: > At the last NewTLUG I got a copy of "Intermediate Robot Building" by David > Cook, and promised that I would write a review of the book for the group, > and here is what I have come up with: Thanks, Colin. I've uploaded it to the CLUE site and added it as the first book review in the list at: http://www.linux.ca/twiki/bin/view/Programmes/BookReviews Now I just have to find out how to get it back to the publisher. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 21:41:02 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:41:02 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098817840.2791.102.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1529760395.20041026150157@rogers.com> <1098817840.2791.102.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041026214102.GA7411@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 03:10:40PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 15:01, Matt Cahill wrote: > > Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 1:39:24 PM, you wrote: > > > DJP> If you CAN hover, would you like to help with the varathaning ? ;) > > > > DJP> djp > > > > Unfortunately, I've devoted my hovering skills to post-production. > > And at night I'm a crime fighter/lover, > > Which is it ? You fight crime or love it ? Can't be both ! > .. poor tormented soul ... Yeah - do you fight to love crime or do you love to fight crime? -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 21:04:39 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:04:39 -0400 Subject: RSS is the coolest In-Reply-To: <417EB347.3000603-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417EB347.3000603@knet.ca> Message-ID: <417EBBE7.4040705@sympatico.ca> Teddy Mills wrote: > > Install this.... > http://www.feedreader.com/ not bloody likely: "Feedreader is a lightweight open-source aggregator that supports RSS and ATOM formats. It works under *Windows 95* and later versions." Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 21:04:57 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:04:57 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041026214102.GA7411-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1529760395.20041026150157@rogers.com> <1098817840.2791.102.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026214102.GA7411@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <762944208.20041026170457@rogers.com> Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 5:41:02 PM, you wrote: JM> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 03:10:40PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: >> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 15:01, Matt Cahill wrote: >> > Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 1:39:24 PM, you wrote: >> >> > DJP> If you CAN hover, would you like to help with the varathaning ? ;) >> > >> > DJP> djp >> > >> > Unfortunately, I've devoted my hovering skills to post-production. >> > And at night I'm a crime fighter/lover, >> >> Which is it ? You fight crime or love it ? Can't be both ! >> .. poor tormented soul ... JM> Yeah - do you fight to love crime or do you love to fight crime? John, Allow me to set the record straight: I fight crime, and alternately on separate occasions, I love. And of course there are those nights when I spend 4 hours writing essays and op-ed pieces, submitting them drunkenly. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 21:09:37 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:09:37 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041026214102.GA7411-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1529760395.20041026150157@rogers.com> <1098817840.2791.102.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026214102.GA7411@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <1098824977.14882.9.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 17:41 -0400, John Macdonald wrote: > > > Unfortunately, I've devoted my hovering skills to post-production. > > > And at night I'm a crime fighter/lover, > > > > Which is it ? You fight crime or love it ? Can't be both ! > > .. poor tormented soul ... > > Yeah - do you fight to love crime or do you love to fight crime? I think he meant he's a (crime-fighter)/lover. Bond style. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 21:10:03 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:10:03 -0400 Subject: RSS is the coolest In-Reply-To: <417EBBE7.4040705-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <417EB347.3000603@knet.ca> <417EBBE7.4040705@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:04:39 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Teddy Mills wrote: > > > > Install this.... > > http://www.feedreader.com/ > > not bloody likely: "Feedreader is a lightweight open-source aggregator > that supports RSS and ATOM formats. It works under *Windows 95* and > later versions." Indeed. knewsticker works just fine, thanks. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 21:18:51 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 17:18:51 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098824977.14882.9.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1529760395.20041026150157@rogers.com> <1098817840.2791.102.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026214102.GA7411@lupus.perlwolf.com> <1098824977.14882.9.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1042532050.20041026171851@rogers.com> Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 5:09:37 PM, you wrote: A> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 17:41 -0400, John Macdonald wrote: >> > > Unfortunately, I've devoted my hovering skills to post-production. >> > > And at night I'm a crime fighter/lover, >> > >> > Which is it ? You fight crime or love it ? Can't be both ! >> > .. poor tormented soul ... >> >> Yeah - do you fight to love crime or do you love to fight crime? A> I think he meant he's a (crime-fighter)/lover. A> Bond style. Yes. What he said. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell.? - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 22:02:09 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (JAMES KNOTT) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:02:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041026214102.GA7411-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <20041026214102.GA7411@lupus.perlwolf.com> Message-ID: <20041026220209.8362.qmail@web88008.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- John Macdonald wrote: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 03:10:40PM -0400, David J > Patrick wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 15:01, Matt Cahill wrote: > > > Tuesday, October 26, 2004, 1:39:24 PM, you > wrote: > > > > > DJP> If you CAN hover, would you like to help > with the varathaning ? ;) > > > > > > DJP> djp > > > > > > Unfortunately, I've devoted my hovering skills > to post-production. > > > And at night I'm a crime fighter/lover, > > > > Which is it ? You fight crime or love it ? Can't > be both ! > > .. poor tormented soul ... > > Yeah - do you fight to love crime or do you love to > fight crime? Neither. He just likes running around in red & blue tights. ;-) > > -- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 22:08:10 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:08:10 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041026180203.GA588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <417ECACA.9020700@truxtar.com> William Park wrote: >>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: >>How do people feel about a change of venue for the November meeting? I >>can't make a ruling I just send the meeting announcements out :) >> >>Seriously though, how would it be if Linuxcaffe became the regular meeting >>venue? I'm just throwing this out as an idea which Patrick can feel free >>to object to :) > > > I'm all for the change of venue. Sounds good. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 22:56:10 2004 From: sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:56:10 -0400 Subject: RSS is the coolest In-Reply-To: <417EB347.3000603-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417EB347.3000603@knet.ca> Message-ID: <200410261856.10645.sniffy@rogers.com> On October 26, 2004 04:27 pm, Teddy Mills wrote: > Install this.... > http://www.feedreader.com/ Umm..no offense, but I'll stick to akregator (http://akregator.sourceforge.net/), thanks. > then get your RSS information resources at...... > http://www.newsisfree.com/sources/bycat/ This on the other hand _is_ cool! Thanks! -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 22:27:28 2004 From: dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:27:28 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <000e01c4bbaa$fa4ab150$6501a8c0@3L1T3> hmm can someone fill me in here please, what are we talking about, whats Caffe Bickford? some new linux store u guys are opening up or something? i think i missed something here.. ;) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 22:32:27 2004 From: dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:32:27 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <000e01c4bbaa$fa4ab150$6501a8c0@3L1T3> Message-ID: <001d01c4bbab$ac90a9a0$6501a8c0@3L1T3> sorry nvm i found the email describing cafee bickford in the archives, but yes perhaps i could be of some help? seeing as since i have spare time and id love to do anything with helping linux in a linux store ;) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! > hmm can someone fill me in here please, what are we talking about, whats > Caffe Bickford? some new linux store u guys are opening up or something? i > think i missed something here.. ;) > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 22:40:16 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 18:40:16 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041026202759.GA1077-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:27, William Park wrote: > > Will you be installing computer stations much like "Internet Cafe" > types? Thin-client is the canonical solution for this, and I can give a > hand with that, if you like. Did I not mention internet caffe ? Silly me ! I have debated thin client at length, but worry about performance. Rather than the typical rows of terminals, I plan to aquire a motly assortment of elderly thinkpad laptops (233mhz+) spray painted by local artists. These I plan to load with a common base, (debian ?) a lighter desktop (XFWM ? Gnome 2.8+ if it will keep up) and to "top up" with apps based on user requirements. Add an 802.11b WiFi card and thars yer terminal Billy ! Arrrr ! (sorry, I've been putting together a pirate costume, for halloween, and it has taken over) This is SOOO unlike a typical internet caffe for several reasons; -laptops -linux -save your home directory and settings -on a sweet summers day, you can take the funky laptop and surf in the park across the street ! (we've got your credit card on file ;) -great for web surfing, email, office apps, graphics work, music streaming (from our collection of indie artists) -lousy for network gaming (inadequate graphics horsepower and no Windoze) so the legions of first person shooters will go elsewhere. This is the place where Wayne and Wendy Windozuser will catch their first glimpse of linux, so it is vital that it be highly functional and visually pleasing. Personally, I think Ximian Gnome is a fine example. SVG icons and antialiased fonts are a must ! Users will have the option to change stuff (thanks to the UN*X way) without screwing up the system. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 23:07:26 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:07:26 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098830415.2791.160.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 18:40 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Rather than the typical rows of terminals, I plan to aquire a motly > assortment of elderly thinkpad laptops Cool. Very durable machines. Snazzy idea to use laptops too. > (233mhz+) Let's hope that's a really big "+". You'd probably want 500 MHz minimum for a local installation. 233 might be enough if you're running X over ethernet from a master server though. > spray painted by local artists Sweet. > These I plan to load with a common base, (debian ?) Oh gawd, please don't start a flame war. > a lighter desktop (XFWM ? Gnome 2.8+ if it will keep up) I'd highly suggest something Windowsy. This is your chance to welcome Windows users, not make them feel embarrassed/alienated. Gnome 2.8 is surprisingly snappy. Try out Ubuntu of you want to test a really sweet default Gnome setup. It's Debian done right. > and to "top up" with apps based on user requirements That would be cool too. Solicit feedback or voting for applications. "What is missing on our machines?" Kinda like Mandrakeclub. Maybe you could feed the results to the media or linux distributors. > save your home directory and settings Locally or USB? Locally would be so cool. And it would make press for sure. "Toronto Internet Cafe sports digital storage lockers." > on a sweet summers day, you can take the funky laptop and surf in the > park across the street ! (we've got your credit card on file ;) Woot. All I can say is woot. > great for web surfing, email, office apps, graphics work, music > streaming (from our collection of indie artists) The idea of having local music and local art available to take home is really cool, and a great way to bring in non-linuxy people. > -lousy for network gaming (inadequate graphics horsepower and no > Windoze) so the legions of first person shooters will go elsewhere. You're like what... two blocks from Koreatown? I'm sure gamers have got their cybercafe gaming needs covered. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 09:51:43 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 05:51:43 -0400 Subject: LILO for Debian Message-ID: <200410260551.43833.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Can anyone suggest what parameters are required in the lilo.conf file to recognize a debian installation. What should I write into 'initrd= ???' and into 'append= ??'. With all the variations I tried so far, I cannot get my MS PS/2 Wheelmouse to work. Any suggestions? Thanks, John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Oct 26 23:49:39 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:49:39 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098832046.5792.20.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1098834578.2791.178.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 19:07, Austin wrote: > Cool. Very durable machines. Snazzy idea to use laptops too. > > > (233mhz+) > > Let's hope that's a really big "+". You'd probably want 500 MHz minimum > for a local installation. 233 might be enough if you're running X over > ethernet from a master server though. I think I depend on several factors like; -where is X running from -What desktop is in use -RAM and system tuning. only testing will tell ! > Oh gawd, please don't start a flame war. What ? did I say VI was better than EMACS ? Just 'cause it is doesn't mean I said it ! It's not like I suggested KDE, or anything ! Sheesh ! > > I'd highly suggest something Windowsy. This is your chance to welcome > Windows users, not make them feel embarrassed/alienated. Gnome 2.8 is > surprisingly snappy. Try out Ubuntu of you want to test a really sweet > default Gnome setup. It's Debian done right. Right on ! > > > and to "top up" with apps based on user requirements > > That would be cool too. Solicit feedback or voting for applications. > "What is missing on our machines?" Kinda like Mandrakeclub. Maybe you > could feed the results to the media or linux distributors. The plan is to have a series of questions on boot; (after leaping the new user hurdle) -desktop layout/ decoration options [] Windows user [] Mac user [] linux user -application defaults [] surf / email [] office apps [] gaming This will start the user up with a familiar interface and appropriate choice of desktop icons. I have a flowchart that makes sense of this. > > save your home directory and settings > > Locally or USB? Locally would be so cool. And it would make press for > sure. "Toronto Internet Cafe sports digital storage lockers." Locally AND accessable from anywhere via the linuxcaffe.ca website ! > > > on a sweet summers day, you can take the funky laptop and surf in the > > park across the street ! (we've got your credit card on file ;) > > Woot. All I can say is woot. Whoot whoot ! > > > great for web surfing, email, office apps, graphics work, music > > streaming (from our collection of indie artists) > > The idea of having local music and local art available to take home is > really cool, and a great way to bring in non-linuxy people. I'm hoping that the music and video services will overshadow the OSS. > > > -lousy for network gaming (inadequate graphics horsepower and no > > Windoze) so the legions of first person shooters will go elsewhere. > > You're like what... two blocks from Koreatown? I'm sure gamers have got > their cybercafe gaming needs covered. In all it's dungeony glory djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 01:56:42 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (JAMES KNOTT) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:56:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <000e01c4bbaa$fa4ab150$6501a8c0@3L1T3> References: <000e01c4bbaa$fa4ab150$6501a8c0@3L1T3> Message-ID: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Steve wrote: > hmm can someone fill me in here please, what are we > talking about, whats > Caffe Bickford? some new linux store u guys are > opening up or something? i > think i missed something here.. ;) > It's a new coffee shop, where you're expected to make your own coffee and wash your dishes. ;-) ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 02:04:22 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:04:22 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041027015642.16779.qmail-eoYtlbpe90CB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 21:56 -0400, JAMES KNOTT wrote: > --- Steve wrote: > > hmm can someone fill me in here please, what are we > > talking about, whats > > Caffe Bickford? some new linux store u guys are > > opening up or something? i > > think i missed something here.. ;) > > > > It's a new coffee shop, where you're expected to make > your own coffee and wash your dishes. ;-) You're free to modify the coffee - even to sell your own version. But you have to document your changes to the formula and afford others the same privilege. Austin (I got an espresso machine for xmas when I was 12 years old, so my formula is cheap, idealistic, well established, and slow to change... kinda like Debian.) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 02:50:19 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 22:50:19 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098842662.5792.31.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <417F0CEB.3010901@sympatico.ca> Austin wrote: > > You're free to modify the coffee - even to sell your own version. > But you have to document your changes to the formula and afford others > the same privilege. and of course, roast it from green coffee beans. Or maybe that's the Gentoo user in me. (but I really do roast my own -- see ) Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:14:28 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <417F0CEB.3010901-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <417F0CEB.3010901@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > ) One of those brain-dead pages that uses fixed sizes (among other problems), e.g.: p { margin: 5px 0 20px 0; padding: 0; line-height: 1.65em; } Large: Smaller: -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:24:32 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:24:32 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <417F0CEB.3010901-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <417F0CEB.3010901@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098847471.2791.198.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 22:50, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Austin wrote: > > > > You're free to modify the coffee - even to sell your own version. > > But you have to document your changes to the formula and afford others > > the same privilege. > > and of course, roast it from green coffee beans. Or maybe that's the > Gentoo user in me. I always say; If something's worth doing, it's worth overdoing ! And in that same spirit, the house blend was concieved. It's a fine fresh roasted fair trade coffee, called linuxcaffe, naturally. Is it open source ? Why yes ! On the label we give exact geographic location (as accurate as possible) along with the growers contact information, so you can email them (or, more likely, send a letter) Exact roasting times and dates and temperatures are also printed. The logo is Tux doing his best Juan Valdez, and we will sell it at the caffe, and on the web. So there ya go ! Such a fine line between stupid and clever, that it's often worth entertaining silliness ! Let the Colombian vs. Kenyan flamewars begin ! Promote your favorite coffee producing community ! Tell them how much you enjoyed your steaming cup ! and send them free software .. yeah ! THATs the ticket ! djp > > (but I really do roast my own -- see > ) > > Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:34:17 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:34:17 -0400 Subject: LILO for Debian In-Reply-To: <200410260551.43833.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200410260551.43833.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20041027033417.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:51:43AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > Can anyone suggest what parameters are required in the lilo.conf file to > recognize a debian installation. What should I write into 'initrd= ???' and > into 'append= ??'. With all the variations I tried so far, I cannot get my MS > PS/2 Wheelmouse to work. Well append= is almost always blank unless you have odd hardware or requirements. initrd= should point at /boot/initrd.img-version where version is the kernel version (look in /boot for the image file). Making a ps/2 wheel mouse work should simply involve setting the mouse protocol to imps2 in X and/or gpm, and if using both of those, running the gpm repeater device (/dev/gpmdata) and pointing X at that device (since ps/2 device in 2.4 and older does not share). 2.6 kernels need hid/input/mousedev support loaded. Recent 2.6 kernels supposedly use /dev/input/mice for combined data from all connected mice and always speaks imps2 protocol no matter what type the mouse is. There is nothing debian specific about any of the above. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:34:37 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:34:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098815325.2791.62.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098815325.2791.62.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 13:46, Robert Brockway wrote: > > Seriously though, how would it be if Linuxcaffe became the regular meeting > > venue? I'm just throwing this out as an idea which Patrick can feel free > > to object to :) > I must admit that I have been thinking along those lines as well. I see a number of advantages: - Closer to TTC (I think) - Ample size - Better relations betwixt TLUG and the propriator (the University is faily nuetral as far as I can tell) - Projection Screen - Food/favourite beverages on site (no need to go anywhere in the snow :) > I could close the doors to the (non TLUG) public every second > Tuesday, if interest was demonstrable. Or keep it open but make people clearly aware a Linux talk/meeting is on. To be honest people tend to eat and drink when food is available, so one can expect a return. You might like to consider inviting GTABUG on a different night. Ok, the name might irk them ;) Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:37:17 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:37:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098842662.5792.31.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Austin wrote: > You're free to modify the coffee - even to sell your own version. > But you have to document your changes to the formula and afford others > the same privilege. Will LinuxCaffe be selling Open Cola? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenCola It was being made right here in TO at one point. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:43:41 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098830415.2791.160.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > Did I not mention internet caffe ? Silly me ! > I have debated thin client at length, but worry about performance. Honestly, you can use some pretty low end h/w for a thinclient. Try it and see. > Rather than the typical rows of terminals, I plan to aquire a motly > assortment of elderly thinkpad laptops (233mhz+) spray painted by local As long as you do not intend to encrypt all the traffic in software (ie, excluding 802.11b or g) these should be fine as thin clients. > artists. These I plan to load with a common base, (debian ?) a lighter > desktop (XFWM ? Gnome 2.8+ if it will keep up) and to "top up" with apps If you are doing a true thin client they don't need anything except the software to boot and an Xserver. All else comes from the central server where you get to enjoy all the advantages of copy-on-write pages, shared memory, etc. > -laptops > -linux > -save your home directory and settings > -on a sweet summers day, you can take the funky laptop and surf in the > park across the street ! (we've got your credit card on file ;) And you've seen some photo ID at the time you took the credit card right? :) > This is the place where Wayne and Wendy Windozuser will catch their > first glimpse of linux, so it is vital that it be highly functional and > visually pleasing. Personally, I think Ximian Gnome is a fine example. > SVG icons and antialiased fonts are a must ! Users will have the option > to change stuff (thanks to the UN*X way) without screwing up the system. Let me expound the virtues of thin client in person some time :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:45:29 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:45:29 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098847471.2791.198.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <417F0CEB.3010901@sympatico.ca> <1098847471.2791.198.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041027034529.GA769@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 11:24:32PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Let the Colombian vs. Kenyan flamewars begin ! > Promote your favorite coffee producing community ! > Tell them how much you enjoyed your steaming cup ! > and send them free software .. yeah ! THATs the ticket ! Hmm... I've always thought Linux and Porn might be the killer combo. But, who knows, it might actually be Linux and Narcotic. :-) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:45:43 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098832046.5792.20.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Austin wrote: > Locally or USB? Locally would be so cool. And it would make press for > sure. "Toronto Internet Cafe sports digital storage lockers." If Patrick goes thin client it is all back on the server anyway, and gets caught in whatever backups he's using. May I suggest XFS and user quotas. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 03:51:10 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 23:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Austin wrote: > > > Locally or USB? Locally would be so cool. And it would make press for > > sure. "Toronto Internet Cafe sports digital storage lockers." > > If Patrick goes thin client it is all back on the server anyway, and gets I called David Patrick again didn't I? Sorry David :( Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:05:14 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:05:14 -0400 Subject: LILO for Debian In-Reply-To: <20041027033417.GZ8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200410260551.43833.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20041027033417.GZ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: > On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 05:51:43AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > > Can anyone suggest what parameters are required in the lilo.conf file to > > recognize a debian installation. What should I write into 'initrd= ???' and > > into 'append= ??'. With all the variations I tried so far, I cannot get my MS > > PS/2 Wheelmouse to work. Also, if you're using XFree, check your /etc/X11/XF86Config file. In the "InputDevice" section, check if ZAxisMaping is set. Here's what that section in mine looks like.... Section "InputDevice" Identifier "Mouse0" Driver "mouse" Option "Device" "/dev/mouse" Option "Protocol" "IMPS/2" Option "Emulate3Buttons" "no" Option "ZAxisMapping" "4 5" EndSection The line you want to add in (if not already in there) is the ZAxisMapping. -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:11:21 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:11:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <762944208.20041026170457-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <7899100.20041026120611@rogers.com> <1098812363.2791.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1529760395.20041026150157@rogers.com> <1098817840.2791.102.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026214102.GA7411@lupus.perlwolf.com> <762944208.20041026170457@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Matt Cahill wrote: > John, > > Allow me to set the record straight: I fight crime, and alternately > on separate occasions, I love. And of course there are those nights > when I spend 4 hours writing essays and op-ed pieces, submitting > them drunkenly. Ah I see. You multi-task Matt. Are any of these real-time tasks, and are you nice? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:14:20 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:14:20 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098830415.2791.160.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 06:40:16PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:27, William Park wrote: > > > > Will you be installing computer stations much like "Internet Cafe" > > types? Thin-client is the canonical solution for this, and I can give a > > hand with that, if you like. > > Did I not mention internet caffe ? Silly me ! > I have debated thin client at length, but worry about performance. > Rather than the typical rows of terminals, I plan to aquire a motly > assortment of elderly thinkpad laptops (233mhz+) spray painted by local > artists. These I plan to load with a common base, (debian ?) a lighter > desktop (XFWM ? Gnome 2.8+ if it will keep up) and to "top up" with apps I recommend - Slackware because it's only 2GB full install, - Fvwm95 because it looks like Windows95. Will you be selling those laptops, after people decided that they like the laptop that they've been using for the last few days? It would be an interesting way of selling used laptops. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:37:27 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:37:27 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041027041420.GA894-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <417F2607.7030006@detachednetworks.ca> William Park wrote: >On Tue, Oct 26, 2004 at 06:40:16PM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > >>On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:27, William Park wrote: >> >> >>>Will you be installing computer stations much like "Internet Cafe" >>>types? Thin-client is the canonical solution for this, and I can give a >>>hand with that, if you like. >>> >>> >>Did I not mention internet caffe ? Silly me ! >>I have debated thin client at length, but worry about performance. >>Rather than the typical rows of terminals, I plan to aquire a motly >>assortment of elderly thinkpad laptops (233mhz+) spray painted by local >>artists. These I plan to load with a common base, (debian ?) a lighter >>desktop (XFWM ? Gnome 2.8+ if it will keep up) and to "top up" with apps >> >> > >I recommend > - Slackware because it's only 2GB full install, > - Fvwm95 because it looks like Windows95. > >Will you be selling those laptops, after people decided that they like >the laptop that they've been using for the last few days? It would be >an interesting way of selling used laptops. > > > May I recommend pxes ( http://pxes.sourceforge.net ) bootable cd's ( customized for your network ) or boot roms running to a freeNX server on your choice distro. I have had luck running the free NX server on debian and SuSE 9.1. Just my 2-cents. -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:47:41 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:47:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Meeting Room Message-ID: The evidence I've seen on list so far indicates a preference for a change of venue to LinuxCaffe for the November meeting. Unless I hear howls of protest the November 9 meeting announcement will go out mentioning LinuxCaffe as the location. For those just tuning in, it is close to TTC, I repeat close to TTC. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:52:35 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:52:35 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098852754.4543.1.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 23:43, Robert Brockway wrote: > Let me expound the virtues of thin client in person some time :) I'd like that ! Don't get me wrong, I see the huge advantages of a pure thin client approach. We'll just try a bunch of things and go with what works best. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:56:03 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:56:03 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1098852962.4543.6.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 23:45, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, Austin wrote: > > > Locally or USB? Locally would be so cool. And it would make press for > > sure. "Toronto Internet Cafe sports digital storage lockers." > > If Patrick goes thin client it is all back on the server anyway, and gets > caught in whatever backups he's using. backups ? you think we need backups ?? > May I suggest XFS sure. Reiser4 not ready for primetime anyway. > and user quotas. for sure ! adjustable size; just add money ! Oh, and, it's David. You can all me Patrick, though, as long as I can call you Brockway ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 04:57:20 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:57:20 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1098853040.4543.9.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 23:51, Robert Brockway wrote: > I called David Patrick again didn't I? Sorry David :( I WILL read full thread before posting I WILL read full thread before posting I WILL read full thread before posting I WILL read full thread before posting I WILL read full thread before posting forgetaboutit djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 05:01:54 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:01:54 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041027041420.GA894-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1098853313.4543.15.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 00:14, William Park wrote: > I recommend > - Slackware because it's only 2GB full install, and snappy, too, from what I hear. > - Fvwm95 because it looks like Windows95. For those who like that sort of thing. And there's that dropkick gnome .. .. or slackwire, or something, > > Will you be selling those laptops, after people decided that they like > the laptop that they've been using for the last few days? It would be > an interesting way of selling used laptops. yes djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 05:05:01 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:05:01 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <417F2607.7030006-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <417F2607.7030006@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <1098853501.4543.18.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 00:37, Jason Shein wrote: > May I recommend pxes ( http://pxes.sourceforge.net ) bootable cd's ( > customized for your network ) or boot roms running to a freeNX server on > your choice distro. I have had luck running the free NX server on debian > and SuSE 9.1. never heard of it. looks interesting > > Just my 2-cents. ahhh ! another 2 cents ! kaCHING ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 05:07:03 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:07:03 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1098853623.4543.21.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 23:37, Robert Brockway wrote: > Will LinuxCaffe be selling Open Cola? If I can get it YOU BET ! I LOVE that idea ! Almost forgot about the source that refreshes ! > > It was being made right here in TO at one point. Really ? Can you find out more ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 05:11:29 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:11:29 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041027034529.GA769-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <417F0CEB.3010901@sympatico.ca> <1098847471.2791.198.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027034529.GA769@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1098853888.4543.26.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 23:45, William Park wrote: > Hmm... I've always thought Linux and Porn might be the killer combo. Porn's still popular, right ? > But, who knows, it might actually be Linux and Narcotic. :-) Now you've gone too far ! Remember; only users lose drugs ! Drugs dumb ! Just say NO ! .. what was the question again ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 05:20:16 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 01:20:16 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <762944208.20041026170457@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200410270120.17025.m-cahill@rogers.com> On October 27, 2004 12:11 am, Robert Brockway wrote: > Ah I see. You multi-task Matt. Are any of these real-time tasks, and are > you nice? > Funny - when 'management' levels with me and asks for my opinion on the state of things, I always preface my response with: "Do you want me to be nice, or do you want me to be honest?". Given the choice, they always take the latter. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 07:56:03 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 03:56:03 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098853888.4543.26.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027015642.16779.qmail@web88009.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098842662.5792.31.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <417F0CEB.3010901@sympatico.ca> <1098847471.2791.198.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027034529.GA769@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098853888.4543.26.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041027075603.GB2063@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 01:11:29AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 23:45, William Park wrote: > > Hmm... I've always thought Linux and Porn might be the killer combo. > Porn's still popular, right ? > > But, who knows, it might actually be Linux and Narcotic. :-) > > Now you've gone too far ! > Remember; only users lose drugs ! > Drugs dumb ! > Just say NO ! > .. what was the question again ? No, I meant Nicotine, Caffiene, ... :-) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 15:47:48 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 11:47:48 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098832046.5792.20.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 19:07:26 -0400, Austin wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 18:40 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > > Rather than the typical rows of terminals, I plan to aquire a motly > > assortment of elderly thinkpad laptops > > Cool. Very durable machines. Snazzy idea to use laptops too. > > > (233mhz+) > > Let's hope that's a really big "+". You'd probably want 500 MHz minimum > for a local installation. 233 might be enough if you're running X over > ethernet from a master server though. Now that I think about it, I'd be much more worried about the battery life. Many of the thinkpads at work here have had batteries with a fully-charged to fully-drained time of around 10 minutes, and they're all "rather newer" than even 500MHz (of the T2x era). My T30 is still going quite fine, though. This isn't a problem if you expect them all to be plugged in all the time (even when across the street), but might be a concern if you expect people to MOVE from one place to another. And batteries are not as cheap as you might like. Just keep that in mind. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 16:37:48 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (JAMES KNOTT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 12:37:48 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098852962.4543.6.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098852962.4543.6.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041027163748.22156.qmail@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > Oh, and, it's David. > You can all me Patrick, though, as long as I can call you Brockway ! Shirley, you can be Frank with me. ;-) ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 17:13:27 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:13:27 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 11:47, Taavi Burns wrote: > Now that I think about it, I'd be much more worried about the battery life. [snip] > And batteries are not as cheap as you might like. > > Just keep that in mind. :) Yes, that's a real concern. Other than flipping batteries faster then burgers in a greasy spoon, there must be some solution. -find someone to rebuild old batteries. -come up with a "cheap" "portable" external power supply. -maintain a fleet of batteries and make 110v power ubiquitous. Have I overlooked anything ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 17:14:04 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:14:04 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041027163748.22156.qmail-aqYcPWQm5sWB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027163748.22156.qmail@web88006.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098897244.2723.12.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 12:37, JAMES KNOTT wrote: > Shirley, you can be Frank with me. ;-) Knott ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 18:15:09 2004 From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:15:09 -0400 Subject: RSS is the coolest--reply In-Reply-To: <200410261856.10645.sniffy-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <417EB347.3000603@knet.ca> <200410261856.10645.sniffy@rogers.com> Message-ID: <417FE5AD.7030408@knet.ca> So..are you saying that any and all Win32 opensource/GPL software has no place on your desktop? Chris Gow wrote: >On October 26, 2004 04:27 pm, Teddy Mills wrote: > > >>Install this.... >>http://www.feedreader.com/ >> >> >Umm..no offense, but I'll stick to akregator >(http://akregator.sourceforge.net/), thanks. > > > >>then get your RSS information resources at...... >>http://www.newsisfree.com/sources/bycat/ >> >> >This on the other hand _is_ cool! Thanks! > > >-- chris >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 18:45:00 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:45:00 -0400 Subject: RSS is the coolest--reply In-Reply-To: <417FE5AD.7030408-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417EB347.3000603@knet.ca> <200410261856.10645.sniffy@rogers.com> <417FE5AD.7030408@knet.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 14:15:09 -0400, Teddy Mills wrote: > > So..are you saying that any and all Win32 opensource/GPL software has no > place on your desktop? I can't speak for the other poster, but it sure doesn't on mine. The computers I use on a daily basis run: Debian ARM Gentoo x86 (Duron) Gentoo x86 (PIII) Gentoo x86 (P4-M) OSX 10.3 (G4) This is a LUG after all. Not that the suggestion of Windows software is a bad thing, since some people ARE forced to use it (poor souls), but it should, I think, always be accompanied by a suggestion of Linux software to use. i.e. the news thing is fine, linux software is great, and the Windows software is an optional afterthought to those who are forced to deal with it. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 19:12:49 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: RSS is the coolest--reply In-Reply-To: <417FE5AD.7030408-VFlxZYho3OA@public.gmane.org> References: <417FE5AD.7030408@knet.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Teddy Mills wrote: > So..are you saying that any and all Win32 opensource/GPL software has no > place on your desktop? Correct, for the same reason that OS/360 open-source/GPL software has no place on my desktop -- it needs an obsolete proprietary operating system. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 19:14:52 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:14:52 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <1098897207.2723.10.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d@mail.gmail.com> I have a thinkpad 390X. I don't think its quite as old as the ones your planning to set up. But the battery has been used allot, and now on its own can last for a solid 30 minutes. Maybe you should have desktops (or laptops) set up at some kind of station, that way they aren't relying on battery power. Then people that have their own laptops will come to the caffe and use your wireless service. If the battery is such an issue, you might want to consider it. On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:13:27 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 11:47, Taavi Burns wrote: > > > Now that I think about it, I'd be much more worried about the battery life. > [snip] > > And batteries are not as cheap as you might like. > > > > Just keep that in mind. :) > > Yes, that's a real concern. Other than flipping batteries faster then > burgers in a greasy spoon, there must be some solution. > > -find someone to rebuild old batteries. > -come up with a "cheap" "portable" external power supply. > -maintain a fleet of batteries and make 110v power ubiquitous. > > Have I overlooked anything ? > djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 19:28:26 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:28:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098852962.4543.6.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098852962.4543.6.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > backups ? you think we need backups ?? Oh yes. At least for the system. It is ok to not backup user data if you make that completely clear to them. Peronally I'd enforce a quota and backup user data if the backup media could handle it. > > May I suggest XFS > sure. Reiser4 not ready for primetime anyway. For sure. > for sure ! adjustable size; just add money ! Exactly ;) > Oh, and, it's David. > You can all me Patrick, though, as long as I can call you Brockway ! Sure you can call me Brockway. This is how I was known throughout my High school years in the greatest British tradition (we Aussies retain quite a few British traditions though we are loath to admit it generally). Rob -- Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 19:46:07 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:46:07 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; backups In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098852962.4543.6.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098906366.2723.86.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 15:28, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > > > backups ? you think we need backups ?? > > Oh yes. At least for the system. did I forget to include the winking smiley ? should have read backups ? you think we need backups ?? We'll back up everything, and we'll still make the users perfectly and legally aware that we will NOT be held liable for any loss of data. Add to that a battery backup array so beefy that core systems can continue to operate in a blackout and a low power lighting circuit. The next time Toronto goes dark, you'll be able to see the twinkle of LEDs all the way from Spadina ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 20:03:22 2004 From: josephkubik-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Joseph Kubik) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:03:22 -0400 Subject: Meeting Room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: ARGH!!! I'm leaving town for 9th of november... I move to hold the meeting in Palo Alto, CA. -Joseph- On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 00:47:41 -0400 (EDT), Robert Brockway wrote: > The evidence I've seen on list so far indicates a preference for a change > of venue to LinuxCaffe for the November meeting. > > Unless I hear howls of protest the November 9 meeting announcement will go > out mentioning LinuxCaffe as the location. > > For those just tuning in, it is close to TTC, I repeat close to TTC. > > Cheers, > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org > Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) > "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 20:04:07 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:04:07 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098907446.2723.105.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 15:14, Adam Raymond wrote: > > Maybe you should have desktops (or laptops) set up at some kind of > station, No can do; it would inhibit the flexible layout > that way they aren't relying on battery power. Then people > that have their own laptops will come to the caffe and use your > wireless service. If the battery is such an issue, you might want to > consider it. One strategy is to set up a larger precision DC power supply, and to distribute coax drops at conveniant locations. Another approach is to have 110v a/c outlets everywhere, but that would require a power supply for each laptop. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 20:51:23 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:51:23 -0400 Subject: Meeting Room In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041027205123.GA9530@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 04:03:22PM -0400, Joseph Kubik wrote: > ARGH!!! > I'm leaving town for 9th of november... > I move to hold the meeting in Palo Alto, CA. > -Joseph- Sorry, no, it should be on the Air Canada flight from Boston that evening. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 20:13:05 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:13:05 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <1098907446.2723.105.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d@mail.gmail.com> <1098907446.2723.105.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 16:04:07 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > One strategy is to set up a larger precision DC power supply, and to > distribute coax drops at conveniant locations. Another approach is to > have 110v a/c outlets everywhere, but that would require a power supply > for each laptop. If they're all Thinkpads, then they all have the same power connector (not as sure about the older 54W supplies, but ALL of the thinkpads at work use 72W supplies, which are entirely interchangeable; there are usually a few spare ones lying in conference rooms). Though I've seen a broken power connector, from the cable being jerked sideways (cracked the plastic of the connector on the mobo and snaped the solder joint). If you could get 'em cheap, and they were all the same laptop, you could get docking stations... Only need 'em to charge the lappies. Having thinkpad power connectors coming out of all manner of orifices around the place might work better for your motive-designs. Just random thoughts. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 21:47:46 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:47:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <1098907446.2723.105.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d@mail.gmail.com> <1098907446.2723.105.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 15:14, Adam Raymond wrote: >> >> Maybe you should have desktops (or laptops) set up at some kind of >> station, > No can do; it would inhibit the flexible layout >> that way they aren't relying on battery power. Then people >> that have their own laptops will come to the caffe and use your >> wireless service. If the battery is such an issue, you might want to >> consider it. > > One strategy is to set up a larger precision DC power supply, and to > distribute coax drops at conveniant locations. Another approach is to > have 110v a/c outlets everywhere, but that would require a power supply > for each laptop. > djp You can't run long dc cables to laptops, the voltage drop is going to 'kill' the idea quickly. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 21:53:35 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:53:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: teac fc-1 scsi floppy on linux ? Message-ID: Hi all, I was given a fc-1 and I'm trying to see if it works under linux (2.4 series kernels, aha2940uw scsi card, internal bus, automatic termination). It is detected correcty as removable disk scsi but read and write leads to errors. write causes 03/31/00 (during format with the aha bios utility), and read yields 0E/14/00 (syslog dusing read attempt with dd). The error codes above are given as sense key/code/qualifier . Does anyone run such a drive under linux or *bsd, and if so, with what adapter and adapter settings. Also were there problems setting it up. This drive is suspect of being faulty. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 22:15:13 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:15:13 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d@mail.gmail.com> <1098907446.2723.105.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098915313.2723.110.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 17:47, Peter L. Peres wrote: > You can't run long dc cables to laptops, the voltage drop is going to > 'kill' the idea quickly. hmmm. How about one transformer for each area, servicing half a dozen laptops within a 12 foot range ? It's getting closer to just handing out power supplies with each unit. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 22:40:17 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:40:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <1098915313.2723.110.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d@mail.gmail.com> <1098907446.2723.105.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098915313.2723.110.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 17:47, Peter L. Peres wrote: > >> You can't run long dc cables to laptops, the voltage drop is going to >> 'kill' the idea quickly. > > hmmm. > How about one transformer for each area, servicing half a dozen laptops > within a 12 foot range ? It's getting closer to just handing out power > supplies with each unit. Maybe just provide each table with the right holes from start so a standard power brick can be put in it (and easily changed when needed). The power needs of each laptop are large enough that making a supply for only four of them could be a fire hazard in case a dc cable snags or shorts out. Then you are looking at individually fused dc cords, and then it gets complicated. 'No name' replacement bricks rated 14V, 3A should be about US$30 each when bought by the dozen. My price info is not recent, check. Also these things burn out from time to time. Having individual power supplies would limit the damage in case of oops imho. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 22:51:19 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 18:51:19 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098832046.5792.20.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <1098897207.2723.10.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102712143f1c12d@mail.gmail.com> <1098907446.2723.105.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098915313.2723.110.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1098917479.2723.137.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 18:40, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Maybe just provide each table with the right holes from start so a > standard power brick can be put in it I like it ! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Oct 27 23:36:16 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 19:36:16 -0400 Subject: Positioning Windows in X Message-ID: <20041027233616.GA28540@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> I know that it is possible to launch an window in X and dictate where it appears. What I don't know is how. Is it window manager-specific (in which case I am using OpenBox), or based on X? Basically, I want to launch an Eterm and have it appear at a specific place on the screen. Any pointers? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 00:20:19 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:20:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Positioning Windows in X In-Reply-To: <20041027233616.GA28540-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027233616.GA28540@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, William O'Higgins wrote: > I know that it is possible to launch an window in X and dictate where it > appears. What I don't know is how. > > Is it window manager-specific (in which case I am using OpenBox), or > based on X? > > Basically, I want to launch an Eterm and have it appear at a specific > place on the screen. Any pointers? Thanks. Try --geometry. Eg, xterm --geometry 50x30+0+100 This is part of the Athena widget set IIRC and all apps are supposed to honour it. I seem to recall I've run across apps that did not. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 00:41:06 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:41:06 -0400 Subject: xorg.conf Message-ID: <31f5947d04102717414502586a@mail.gmail.com> Anyone know how to disable the desktop scolling in xorg.conf? Thanks allot! - Adam Raymond - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 01:31:46 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (JAMES KNOTT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:31:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041028013146.55465.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- "Peter L. Peres" wrote: > You can't run long dc cables to laptops, the voltage > drop is going to > 'kill' the idea quickly. Unless the power supply supports remote sensing. I've seen a few of those. They have an extra pair of wires, which is used to measure voltage at the load, eliminating an problem with voltage drop in the load carrying wires. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 01:57:43 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 21:57:43 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <20041028013146.55465.qmail-U/uKf82u23SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028013146.55465.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098928662.2723.171.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 21:31, JAMES KNOTT wrote: > > Unless the power supply supports remote sensing. I've > seen a few of those. They have an extra pair of > wires, which is used to measure voltage at the load, > eliminating an problem with voltage drop in the load > carrying wires. That presumes a single end point, no ? I'm leaning towards a triple pronged solution; 1) a/c plugs everywhere 2) a collection of lithiums on charge rotation, used only when the customer has to "go plug free" 3) power bricks djp > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 02:09:58 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:09:58 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <1098928662.2723.171.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028013146.55465.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098928662.2723.171.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <31f5947d041027190957130c43@mail.gmail.com> > That presumes a single end point, no ? > I'm leaning towards a triple pronged solution; > > 1) a/c plugs everywhere > 2) a collection of lithiums on charge rotation, used only when the > customer has to "go plug free" > 3) power bricks > > djp Are you going to put the power bricks under tables? then just run the PPS cord out of the top of the table? so people can "take out" a laptop, choose a seat, and "plug in"? - AdamR -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 02:20:40 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (JAMES KNOTT) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:20:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <1098928662.2723.171.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098928662.2723.171.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041028022040.63254.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- David J Patrick wrote: > On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 21:31, JAMES KNOTT wrote: > > > > Unless the power supply supports remote sensing. > I've > > seen a few of those. They have an extra pair of > > wires, which is used to measure voltage at the > load, > > eliminating an problem with voltage drop in the > load > > carrying wires. > > That presumes a single end point, no ? What remote sensing does, is make the power conductors invisible to the load. Assuming you had 4 computers at a table, with the shared power supply some distance away. With a common power supplie, you'd have to worry about voltage drop going back to the power supply. If you had a remote sensing supply, measuring the voltage at a common feed point at the tables, the long run to the power supply can be ignored and the leads from the common point to the computers, would be short enough, so as to not cause significant voltage drop. ______________________________________________________________________ Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 03:50:24 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 23:50:24 -0400 Subject: teac fc-1 scsi floppy on linux ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041028035023.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 05:53:35PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > I was given a fc-1 and I'm trying to see if it works under linux (2.4 > series kernels, aha2940uw scsi card, internal bus, automatic termination). > > It is detected correcty as removable disk scsi but read and write leads to > errors. write causes 03/31/00 (during format with the aha bios utility), > and read yields 0E/14/00 (syslog dusing read attempt with dd). The error > codes above are given as sense key/code/qualifier . > > Does anyone run such a drive under linux or *bsd, and if so, with what > adapter and adapter settings. Also were there problems setting it up. This > drive is suspect of being faulty. According to http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/floppies.html the teac fc-1 was designed for unix workstations, and not really as a PC floppy drive, and thinks making it work is pretty unlikely. Some other pages indicated programing docs for the drive says it requries a special scsi command sent to switch into 1.44M mode. A few hints found: Disable HD emulation of removable drives (many adaptecs have this bios option). Disable disconnect on the drive (scsi bios option) Force to 10MB/s or 5MB/s max (scsi bios option) The commands: scsiformat, scsiinfo, scsi-config, and such may also be helpful. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 04:04:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 00:04:03 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <20041027041420.GA894-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 12:14:20AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I recommend > - Slackware because it's only 2GB full install, Since when does full install size indicate anything other than the amount of software included with a distribution? So slackware doesn't come with as much packaged software. Maybe that's a flaw rather than a feature. Besides debian tends to be easier to administrate on large quantities of machines (in my experience at least). > - Fvwm95 because it looks like Windows95. And that's a good thing? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 06:11:05 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:11:05 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <20041028022040.63254.qmail-U/uKf82u23SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028022040.63254.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1098943864.2816.5.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Wed, 2004-10-27 at 22:20, JAMES KNOTT wrote: > > > > What remote sensing does, is make the power conductors > invisible to the load. Assuming you had 4 computers > at a table, with the shared power supply some distance > away. With a common power supplie, you'd have to > worry about voltage drop going back to the power > supply. If you had a remote sensing supply, measuring > the voltage at a common feed point at the tables, the > long run to the power supply can be ignored and the > leads from the common point to the computers, would be > short enough, so as to not cause significant voltage > drop. The supply voltage floats ? One remote sensor per common point ? Would this be an inline thingamabob ? or the d/c supply it's self ? would such a gadget be available locally and at reasonable cost ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 06:27:09 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:27:09 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <20041028040402.GB8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 00:04, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Besides debian tends to be easier to administrate on large > quantities of machines (in my experience at least). Legend has it that Slackware is snappier and more compact, but debian /does/ have undeniable strengths. It's moot if we go 100% thin client, though. > > > - Fvwm95 because it looks like Windows95. > > And that's a good thing? It could be if you've never seen linux and you chose "Windows user" on first log-in. I'd be more inclined to go the XPDE route, over Win95 look, for psychological reasons. For the same reasons, if a user logs on choosing "Mac user", I'd throw aqua and brushed metal at 'em, OSXy. don't forget that animated dock, now. "Linux user" should default to Gnome2.8+ IMHO, with the option to change it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 09:29:52 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:29:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Positioning Windows in X In-Reply-To: <20041027233616.GA28540-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027233616.GA28540@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, William O'Higgins wrote: > I know that it is possible to launch an window in X and dictate where it > appears. What I don't know is how. > > Is it window manager-specific (in which case I am using OpenBox), or > based on X? > > Basically, I want to launch an Eterm and have it appear at a specific > place on the screen. Any pointers? Thanks. eterm -geometry WxH+L+R & or eterm -geometry +L+R & for automatic size. You can also use -L+R or whatever suits you. Coordinates are pixels from left top corner of window. You can also use more explicit coordinates if the server is set up right, like +1+2cm . Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 09:31:10 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:31:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <20041028013146.55465.qmail-U/uKf82u23SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028013146.55465.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, JAMES KNOTT wrote: > --- "Peter L. Peres" wrote: > > >> You can't run long dc cables to laptops, the voltage >> drop is going to >> 'kill' the idea quickly. > > Unless the power supply supports remote sensing. I've > seen a few of those. They have an extra pair of > wires, which is used to measure voltage at the load, > eliminating an problem with voltage drop in the load > carrying wires. But then they only feed one load. Sense feedback does not work with several loads, they need distributed regulators. That is where the 'complicated' I was referring to starts ... Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 09:32:55 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 05:32:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: teac fc-1 scsi floppy on linux ? In-Reply-To: <20041028035023.GA8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028035023.GA8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Oct 27, 2004 at 05:53:35PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> I was given a fc-1 and I'm trying to see if it works under linux (2.4 >> series kernels, aha2940uw scsi card, internal bus, automatic termination). >> >> It is detected correcty as removable disk scsi but read and write leads to >> errors. write causes 03/31/00 (during format with the aha bios utility), >> and read yields 0E/14/00 (syslog dusing read attempt with dd). The error >> codes above are given as sense key/code/qualifier . >> >> Does anyone run such a drive under linux or *bsd, and if so, with what >> adapter and adapter settings. Also were there problems setting it up. This >> drive is suspect of being faulty. > > According to http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/floppies.html the teac > fc-1 was designed for unix workstations, and not really as a PC floppy > drive, and thinks making it work is pretty unlikely. Some other pages > indicated programing docs for the drive says it requries a special scsi > command sent to switch into 1.44M mode. > > A few hints found: > Disable HD emulation of removable drives (many adaptecs have this bios > option). > Disable disconnect on the drive (scsi bios option) > Force to 10MB/s or 5MB/s max (scsi bios option) > > The commands: scsiformat, scsiinfo, scsi-config, and such may also be > helpful. Ok, thanks. Apparently these work with some suns so there must be a way. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 10:41:14 2004 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:41:14 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <417ECACA.9020700-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <417ECACA.9020700@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041028063211.026174c0@mail.eol.ca> At 06:08 PM 10/26/04 -0400, you wrote: >William Park wrote: >>>On Tue, 26 Oct 2004, David J Patrick wrote: >>>How do people feel about a change of venue for the November meeting? I >>>can't make a ruling I just send the meeting announcements out :) >>> >>>Seriously though, how would it be if Linuxcaffe became the regular meeting >>>venue? I'm just throwing this out as an idea which Patrick can feel free >>>to object to :) >> >>I'm all for the change of venue. I think it is a solid idea, too. I don't have a car and have to come from the western limits of Mississauga (walkable to Oakville boundary) so a meeting place close to the subway could be far more practical for me and others who have no personal transportation means. It sounds like this could be a great factor to coalesce a lot of people and activities on Linux and, if well supported and attended (not just the meetings), could become a hub of sorts for the Linux community around Metro Toronto and surrounding areas. Wanna know whats happening with Linux in Toronto? Just be in touch with the Linuxcaffe ........ Note that a display of Linux presence (not just listserves) does not have to be limited to just meeting days to mingle with real, live Linux lovers and experts if it becomes the place to gravitate to to for our local linux community :-). Sounds so far like there is resounding support all round! How about considering having the NewTLUG group meetings there, too. Bill Mudry >Sounds good. > >-- >Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> > >GnuPG Key fingerprint = >5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 > >*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 10:48:16 2004 From: billmudry-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Bill Mudry) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 06:48:16 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098830415.2791.160.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20041028064404.0263d6b0@mail.eol.ca> At 06:40 PM 10/26/04 -0400, you wrote: >On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 16:27, William Park wrote: > > > > Will you be installing computer stations much like "Internet Cafe" > > types? Thin-client is the canonical solution for this, and I can give a > > hand with that, if you like. > >Did I not mention internet caffe ? Silly me ! >I have debated thin client at length, but worry about performance. >Rather than the typical rows of terminals, I plan to aquire a motly >assortment of elderly thinkpad laptops (233mhz+) spray painted by local >artists. These I plan to load with a common base, (debian ?) a lighter With enough hardware and larger drives, could you consider offering bootups in a few different distros. How convenient that would be to be able to look at the similarities and differences of different distros all from one place. That sure would beat having to install different ones on a set of one's own computers. I might also allow different patrons to pick and use the distro they already use the most. Bill Mudry >desktop (XFWM ? Gnome 2.8+ if it will keep up) and to "top up" with apps >based on user requirements. Add an 802.11b WiFi card and thars yer >terminal Billy ! Arrrr ! (sorry, I've been putting together a pirate >costume, for halloween, and it has taken over) This is SOOO unlike a >typical internet caffe for several reasons; > >-laptops >-linux >-save your home directory and settings >-on a sweet summers day, you can take the funky laptop and surf in the >park across the street ! (we've got your credit card on file ;) >-great for web surfing, email, office apps, graphics work, music >streaming (from our collection of indie artists) >-lousy for network gaming (inadequate graphics horsepower and no >Windoze) so the legions of first person shooters will go elsewhere. > >This is the place where Wayne and Wendy Windozuser will catch their >first glimpse of linux, so it is vital that it be highly functional and >visually pleasing. Personally, I think Ximian Gnome is a fine example. >SVG icons and antialiased fonts are a must ! Users will have the option >to change stuff (thanks to the UN*X way) without screwing up the system. > >djp > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 12:23:34 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 08:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041028063211.026174c0-9yrvbIq3RigsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20041028063211.026174c0@mail.eol.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Bill Mudry wrote: > NewTLUG group meetings there, too. The thought crossed my mind too. I also thought about suggesting it to GTABug (BSD user group) buy they may froth at the mount on hearing the name ;) I will be suggesting it to GTASage (with David's permission). Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 13:15:08 2004 From: dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:15:08 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! References: <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20041028063211.026174c0@mail.eol.ca> Message-ID: <000c01c4bcf0$265a46c0$6501a8c0@3L1T3> so do you guys need any help with anything? im home during the day and usually bored and take trips to toronto so i can probably help if u need Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Brockway" To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 8:23 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Bill Mudry wrote: > > > NewTLUG group meetings there, too. > > The thought crossed my mind too. I also thought about suggesting it to > GTABug (BSD user group) buy they may froth at the mount on hearing the > name ;) > > I will be suggesting it to GTASage (with David's permission). > > Rob > > -- > Robert Brockway B.Sc. > Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. > Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net > OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 13:50:43 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:50:43 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: <1098943864.2816.5.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028022040.63254.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1098943864.2816.5.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4180F933.2@rogers.com> David J Patrick wrote: > The supply voltage floats ? > One remote sensor per common point ? > Would this be an inline thingamabob ? or the d/c supply it's self ? > would such a gadget be available locally and at reasonable cost ? Actually, most power supplies can float, but are often grounded inside the case. All it takes is one wire to ground. It's usually not to difficult to convert such a power supply to float. Also, all regulated power supplies have a means of measuring the voltage. This is normally done right at the output terminals, but with remote sensing, the sense lines are connected to separate terminals, rather that the power supply output terminals. It may be more difficult to convert a power supply to remote sense, as it requires the sense circuit be completely independent of the power supply, except at the load. This means they cannot share any common circuitry inside the case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 14:03:59 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:03:59 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; thinkpad battery life In-Reply-To: References: <20041028013146.55465.qmail@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4180FC4F.7030304@rogers.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Wed, 27 Oct 2004, JAMES KNOTT wrote: > >> --- "Peter L. Peres" wrote: >> >> >>> You can't run long dc cables to laptops, the voltage >>> drop is going to >>> 'kill' the idea quickly. >> >> >> Unless the power supply supports remote sensing. I've >> seen a few of those. They have an extra pair of >> wires, which is used to measure voltage at the load, >> eliminating an problem with voltage drop in the load >> carrying wires. > > > But then they only feed one load. Sense feedback does not work with > several loads, they need distributed regulators. That is where the > 'complicated' I was referring to starts ... Not necessarily. In another message, I gave an example, where you only need regulated power to a common point, remote from the power supply. With remote sensing, the result would be the same, as if the power supply were actually at that location, in that voltage drops, with long connecting cables are no longer a concern. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 14:24:04 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:24:04 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <1098944828.2816.22.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:27:09 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > It could be if you've never seen linux and you chose "Windows user" on > first log-in. I'd be more inclined to go the XPDE route, over Win95 > look, for psychological reasons. For the same reasons, if a user logs on > choosing "Mac user", I'd throw aqua and brushed metal at 'em, OSXy. KDE has a nice OSX-style theme called Baghira: http://www.kde-look.org/content/show.php?content=8692 > don't forget that animated dock, now. I've heard reports of people who have that working...but it would take a bit of tweaking, and I would NOT expect it to have anything near acceptable performance on a thin client (not until the X servers and window managers support TRUE transparency, composited on the client). > "Linux user" should default to > Gnome2.8+ IMHO, with the option to change it. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 14:27:38 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:27:38 -0400 Subject: xorg.conf In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04102717414502586a-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <31f5947d04102717414502586a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 20:41:06 -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > Anyone know how to disable the desktop scolling in xorg.conf? Thanks allot! Didn't you get my reply on Monday? -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 14:44:59 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:44:59 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20041028064404.0263d6b0-9yrvbIq3RigsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20041028064404.0263d6b0@mail.eol.ca> Message-ID: <20041028144459.GC8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 06:48:16AM -0400, Bill Mudry wrote: > With enough hardware and larger drives, could you consider offering bootups > in a few different distros. How convenient that would be to be able to look > at > the similarities and differences of different distros all from one place. > That sure > would beat having to install different ones on a set of one's own computers. > I might also allow different patrons to pick and use the distro they > already use > the most. But why would you want people rebooting machines? They shouldn't have to ever reboot the machines after all. :) Now with a thin client you could just have multiple environments setup they can connect to. Besides the distribution shouldn't matter much to the end user, it matters to the admin. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 15:05:56 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:05:56 -0400 Subject: xorg.conf In-Reply-To: References: <31f5947d04102717414502586a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <31f5947d04102808055704ed8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:27:38 -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > Didn't you get my reply on Monday? > I dont believe I did. -AdamR -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 15:11:19 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:11:19 -0400 Subject: xorg.conf In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04102808055704ed8-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <31f5947d04102717414502586a@mail.gmail.com> <31f5947d04102808055704ed8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug/12220 -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 15:16:05 2004 From: StreetSmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:16:05 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <31f5947d04102808165ba54d49@mail.gmail.com> > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 02:27:09 -0400, David J Patrick > wrote: > > It could be if you've never seen linux and you chose "Windows user" on > > first log-in. I'd be more inclined to go the XPDE route, over Win95 > > look, for psychological reasons. For the same reasons, if a user logs on > > choosing "Mac user", I'd throw aqua and brushed metal at 'em, OSXy. Why don't you set it up as some kind of leveling system. Start with a distro that is closest to windows. Make the users try that out, when they are confident enough, get them to move on to a more "linux type" distro. If some users have already tried that distro, but would like to try another one, then you have it all set up, and they can free ride over to level 2. etc.. -AdamR -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 15:31:25 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 11:31:25 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04102808165ba54d49-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102808165ba54d49@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098977485.5245.12.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 11:16 -0400, Adam Raymond wrote: > Why don't you set it up as some kind of leveling system. Start with a > distro that is closest to windows. Make the users try that out, when > they are confident enough, get them to move on to a more "linux type" > distro. If some users have already tried that distro, but would like > to try another one, then you have it all set up, and they can free > ride over to level 2. etc.. Quite the opposite. As someone said earlier, it should be transparent to the user what distro they are using. The distro should be the one that the sysadmin finds fast and easy to maintain. The fact that there are 20 or so good distros to choose from is an excellent thing NOT to tell people right away. Regarding desktop environemnt, it's a good chance to make people aware of the different choices available, but also important not to confuse them. Gnome 2.8 is quite simple to use (miles better that 2.4 or 2.6)... very intuitive for a Windows or Mac user, without the myriads of choices/options/buttons of KDE or the Unix oddities of WM or Blackbox. Plus, you can easily make Metacity act like the OSX window manager at the user's request. The new gnoppix live CD is using gnome 2.8 if anyone wants to try it out, and for low bandwidthers, I have copies. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 16:53:32 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 12:53:32 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <000c01c4bcf0$265a46c0$6501a8c0@3L1T3> References: <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20041028063211.026174c0@mail.eol.ca> <000c01c4bcf0$265a46c0$6501a8c0@3L1T3> Message-ID: <1098982411.2766.2.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 09:15, Steve wrote: > so do you guys need any help with anything? im home during the day and > usually bored and take trips to toronto so i can probably help if u need > > Steve. we're in varathane floor hell, but have a couple of things we can to on the exterior. call me @ 416-823-4899 djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 17:10:35 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:10:35 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <31f5947d04102808165ba54d49-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102808165ba54d49@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1098983435.2766.19.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 11:16, Adam Raymond wrote: at 'em, OSXy. > > Why don't you set it up as some kind of leveling system. Start with a > distro that is closest to windows. Make the users try that out, when > they are confident enough, get them to move on to a more "linux type" > distro. All about freedom of choice. If Ned Noob walks in and selects "linux user" right away, fabulous ! He'll realize (after making the choice) that a more familiar interface may have been available and he'll just have to click around and discover the new way. If Mr and Ms. Mac user come in, they may never leave the aquafied environment. Same for Windozers. It's not the size of the desktop, but how you use it ! > If some users have already tried that distro, but would like > to try another one, then you have it all set up, and they can free > ride over to level 2. etc.. At the caffe, distro is only relevent to the admins. Desktop + decorations and available apps create the user environment. linux user Windows user Mac user surf/ email office apps gaming for a total of 9 default configs. Allow him/her to tweak till they're blue in the face, then save settings for next time. and you've got choice. Want to try out a whole different distro ? Buy a Knoppix, ubuntu or MandrakeMove CD. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 17:13:08 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 13:13:08 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <1098977485.5245.12.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <31f5947d04102808165ba54d49@mail.gmail.com> <1098977485.5245.12.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1098983588.2766.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 11:31, Austin wrote: > The new gnoppix live CD is using gnome 2.8 if anyone wants to try it > out, and for low bandwidthers, I have copies. It's ubuntufied, and the ubuntu live CD also comes with a selection of fine open source options for Winders users. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 18:20:25 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:20:25 -0400 Subject: External address forwarding Message-ID: <1098987625.418138694ada0@www.almatau.com> Hi, I'm trying to find solution for an iptables related task. There is a server with external address, which is supposed to be behind a Linux firewall soon. Right now it's behind the Sonicwall firewall, which provides with address forwarding. It means the following: Internet <---> 198.182.196.56_Sonicwall_172.18.1.1 <---> 198.182.196.56_Server Is there a way to set up the same with Linux? I know that this layout is not correct and the Server's address must belong to the internal network, but reasons for doing this are: 1.It works with Sonicwall (which sucks), why shouldn't it work with Linux? 2.It'll take time to reconfigure the Server, any down time is not desireable. Thanks, Ilya. ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 21:33:04 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 14:33:04 -0700 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? Message-ID: Hello , What would you buy and from whom if you had 500$ for a Linux PC ? -- and already had some components , see below . I want to buy a new (to me) desktop Linux PC. Probably, the biggest issues for me buying a PC is cost , and getting a completely Linux friendly system ( , supporting Linux friendly companies) . When I did have money ;-) , my last two computers have been Macs , and a factor was it not being MS and that they have integrated hardware . I would like to spend less than 500$ (no monitor), and I am not particularly interested in spending as close to that amount . Like everyone I am looking for the best value . If best value is 400$ or some other amount then that is excellent . My use will be desktop computing and hopefully some development . Other considerations : * I have a Hauppauge! PVR-250 card looking for a home . * Video card likely is not as important as for now I will access from my iMac using X Window / VNC . * I have quite a bit of 100 and 133 RAM , can that be used for now ? * I have quite a few large IDE hard drives I have read through particularly enjoying the section on "What To Optimize" , ( and submitted my minor suggestions for the doc , strangely the URLs are pruned ) flipped through I appreciate the link to and finally looked at and http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxvars.html#VARS , but either seem to be particularly relevant . I am finding it challenging finding a complete or bare-bones , very affordable , identified as Linux-friendly system . If I order from Victoria , I support a local shop , and if there are hardware issues , I can knock on there door . If I order from Vancouver , then I might get better prices , and though a hassle , I can swim to their port . If I order from Ontario , I think I do not have to pay PST . If I order from somewhere else ... ? Currently , I am considering looking through and then comparing the components to the Hardware-HOWTO . Thank you in advance , Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 22:30:35 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:30:35 -0400 Subject: External address forwarding In-Reply-To: <1098987625.418138694ada0-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1098987625.418138694ada0@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <4181730B.7080401@alteeve.com> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Hi, > > I'm trying to find solution for an iptables related task. There is a server > with external address, which is supposed to be behind a Linux firewall soon. > Right now it's behind the Sonicwall firewall, which provides with address > forwarding. It means the following: > > Internet <---> 198.182.196.56_Sonicwall_172.18.1.1 <---> 198.182.196.56_Server > > Is there a way to set up the same with Linux? I know that this layout is not > correct and the Server's address must belong to the internal network, but > reasons for doing this are: > 1.It works with Sonicwall (which sucks), why shouldn't it work with Linux? > 2.It'll take time to reconfigure the Server, any down time is not desireable. > > Thanks, > Ilya. Hi Ilya, Short answer; yep, you can do that (easily) with Linux. Long answer: You need to simply setup SNAT forwarding. What you need to do (roughly) is give your Linux machine the public IP address of the server. I am going to assume that you have two public IPs, one for the router, and one for the server. If not, you can use port forwarding where instead of forwarding an entire IP address you choose ports to forward instead. Keep in mind with port forwarding only one machine can answer each port, not both. For example, you can't run a web server on both machines on port 80 because the incoming packets have to be told to go to either the local machine (firewall) OR the server. Now back to assuming you have two IPs: Say 111.222.33.44 is your firewall's own IP and 111.222.33.45 is the IP address that remote clients will call when they are looking for your server. Remember that both are assigned to the Internet-facing NIC (lets say 'eth0'). The firewall needs to have a second network card that will face the server (or the network the server is a part of). Let's say that the server-facing fireall NIC ('eth1') is 192.168.1.1. You need to assign an IP within the same subnet (again let's say '255.255.255.0'). Let's use '192.168.1.2'. At this point all of the network configuration you need to do it done. The next step is configuring the 'iptables' firewall. To do this you want to create a rule like that tells any request coming from the Internet calling the server's IP address '111.222.33.45' (which the firewall answers) to be forwarded to the internal IP '192.168.1.2'. I wrote a paper for TLUG a little while back on firewalls. A couple smallish problems have been found since but for what you are trying to do it should tell you exactly what you need to do. http://thelinuxexperience.com/whitepapers/TLE-WhitePaper_Netfilter-v1.1.pdf Good luck and I hope this helped! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 22:48:52 2004 From: tux-4CS0UopE6WdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:48:52 -0400 Subject: External address forwarding In-Reply-To: <4181730B.7080401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098987625.418138694ada0@www.almatau.com> <4181730B.7080401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1099003732.4181775421590@www.almatau.com> Quoting Madison Kelly : > Hi Ilya, > > Short answer; yep, you can do that (easily) with Linux. > > Long answer: You need to simply setup SNAT forwarding. What you need > to do (roughly) is give your Linux machine the public IP address of the > server. I am going to assume that you have two public IPs, one for the > router, and one for the server. If not, you can use port forwarding Thanks, but the problem is that right now there is only one public address - firewall accepts connections on it and forwards it to the server with the same IP: Internet <---> 198.182.196.56_Sonicwall_172.18.1.1 <---> 198.182.196.56_Server ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 23:51:27 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 19:51:27 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041028235127.GB2130@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:33:04PM -0700, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > Hello , > > What would you buy and from whom if you had 500$ for a Linux PC ? -- > and already had some components , see below . > > I want to buy a new (to me) desktop Linux PC. Probably, the biggest > issues for me buying a PC is cost , and getting a completely Linux > friendly system ( , supporting Linux friendly companies) . When I did > have money ;-) , my last two computers have been Macs , and a factor > was it not being MS and that they have integrated hardware . > > I would like to spend less than 500$ (no monitor), and I am not > particularly interested in spending as close to that amount . Like > everyone I am looking for the best value . If best value is 400$ or > some other amount then that is excellent . > > My use will be desktop computing and hopefully some development . > Other considerations : > * I have a Hauppauge! PVR-250 card looking for a home . > * Video card likely is not as important as for now I will access > from my iMac using X Window / VNC . > * I have quite a bit of 100 and 133 RAM , can that be used for now ? > * I have quite a few large IDE hard drives Too bad, you're not in Toronto. I have few dual-P3. :-) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Thu Oct 28 23:59:35 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:59:35 +1000 Subject: Debian and Groupware In-Reply-To: <20041026162420.GG6816@smeagol> References: <20041019015159.GA7729@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <20041026162420.GG6816@smeagol> Message-ID: <200410290959.36143.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 02:24, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > I'm trying to get the Horde up and running on my server. Only partial luck > so far... I've also made attempts with OpenGroupware.org but have made > even less progress with that. I've had issues with the Debian Horde packages a while ago (like 12mths ago)... that was in sid, so I thought, it's just a short term issue. I switched to SquirrelMail for mail (there's a basic calendar there too) and the users LOVED the simplicity. That, coupled with the fact that it works :) (SpellCheck, LDAP queries, everything worked straight away) So, if it's only going to be used for email and no shared calendar is required, I can recommend SquirrelMail. Regards, David Colebatch PS SuSE's OpenExchange shouldn't be overlooked in commercial environments. An installation I've seen is rock solid, and well regarded by all its users. The latest version has a lot of nice features too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 01:22:39 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 21:22:39 -0400 Subject: External address forwarding In-Reply-To: <1099003732.4181775421590-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1098987625.418138694ada0@www.almatau.com> <4181730B.7080401@alteeve.com> <1099003732.4181775421590@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <41819B5F.5070507@alteeve.com> Ilya Palagin wrote: > Quoting Madison Kelly : > > >>Hi Ilya, >> >> Short answer; yep, you can do that (easily) with Linux. >> >> Long answer: You need to simply setup SNAT forwarding. What you need >>to do (roughly) is give your Linux machine the public IP address of the >>server. I am going to assume that you have two public IPs, one for the >>router, and one for the server. If not, you can use port forwarding > > > Thanks, but the problem is that right now there is only one public address - > firewall accepts connections on it and forwards it to the server with the same > IP: > > Internet <---> 198.182.196.56_Sonicwall_172.18.1.1 <---> 198.182.196.56_Server > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > If you plan to not run matching services (ie: a webserver on both the firewall and server) then a single IP is perfectly okay. Where originally I mentioned that you would create a rule stating that a request for a give IP addree is to be forwarded to another internal IP address you would now add a port. For example, you would create a rule that says if a request comes in from the internet making a request on say port 80 forward it onto the internal IP of the server. This way you can leave ssh (tcp port 22) setup to be answered by the server (because you don't specify port 22 to be forwarded) while still allowing your protected server to answer http (tcp port 80) requests. I also mention and give examples of port forwarding in the paper I linked to in my last message. I hope this helps! Madison -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Madison Kelly Lead Technician The Linux Experience http://thelinuxexperience.com TLE-BU; GPL Linux Backup Software http://tle-bu.thelinuxexperience.com -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 00:33:28 2004 From: Nezumikozo-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Nezumikozo) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:33:28 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41818FD8.20403@sympatico.ca> Funny you should mention a sub 500 system.... Has anyone checked out http://www.sub500.com/ ? Jay Hoeffer Lloyd D Budd wrote: > Hello , > > What would you buy and from whom if you had 500$ for a > Linux PC ? -- and already had some components , see below . > > I want to buy a new (to me) desktop Linux PC. Probably, the > biggest issues for me buying a PC is cost , and > getting a completely Linux friendly system > ( , supporting Linux friendly companies) . When I did have > money ;-) , my last two computers have been Macs , and > a factor was it not being MS and that they have integrated > hardware . > > I would like to spend less than 500$ (no monitor), and I am not > particularly interested in spending as close to that amount . > Like everyone I am looking for the best value . If best value > is 400$ or some other amount then that is excellent . > > My use will be desktop computing and hopefully some > development . Other considerations : > * I have a Hauppauge! PVR-250 card looking for a home . > * Video card likely is not as important as for now I will access > from my iMac using X Window / VNC . > * I have quite a bit of 100 and 133 RAM , can that be used for now ? > * I have quite a few large IDE hard drives > > > I have read through > > particularly enjoying the section on "What To Optimize" , > ( and submitted my minor suggestions for the doc > , strangely the URLs > are pruned > ) > > flipped through > > I appreciate the link to > > and finally looked at > and > http://linuxfinances.info/info/linuxvars.html#VARS , but > either seem to be particularly relevant . > > I am finding it challenging finding a complete or > bare-bones , very affordable , identified as Linux-friendly > system . > > If I order from Victoria , I support a local shop , and if there > are hardware issues , I can knock on there door . > If I order from Vancouver , then I might get better prices , > and though a hassle , I can swim to their port . > If I order from Ontario , I think I do not have to pay PST . > If I order from somewhere else ... ? > > Currently , I am considering looking through > CatId=31> > and then comparing the components to the > Hardware-HOWTO . > > > Thank you in advance , > Lloyd > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 00:38:01 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:38:01 +1000 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098815894.2791.72.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098815894.2791.72.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200410291038.01254.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Wednesday 27 October 2004 04:38, David J Patrick wrote: > On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 14:02, William Park wrote: > > I'm all for the change of venue. > > Well folks, the Bash Baron himself has spoken. > Anyone else ? The Prince of Perl ? kernel kaptains ? > > What of the ladies of linux ? > Methinks the balance is a bit off. > Any ideas to correct the ratio ? > Lurking lasses please shout out ! "Me too!" Seriously, can't wait to get to TO in January...Will it be ready by the weekend of Jan 8-9? I'll drop by, wearing my Australian flag, and you can all call me "Colebatch" and I'll think it's normal. :) -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 00:41:45 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:41:45 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: <20041028235127.GB2130-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028235127.GB2130@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <96aa4e8f0410281741179840d4@mail.gmail.com> How important is using the SDRAM? If you really don't want ot buy any memory, use what you've got, then I'd look for a place that sells used PCs, a friend of mine for a p3-500 with two big 10k SCSIs this way, companies renewing hardware. Tiger Direct is, well, iffy in their service, from what I've experienced. If you have time, just come up with a list of components you want in your PC and just go around the smaller computer stores, they often have good deals (as I discovered after my system was complete :-) For about 500 bucks, try for: Mobile Barton 2500+ (and overclock it, I've got a desktop version running at 3200+ speed fine, only 0.025 volts more needed for complete stability, no exotic cooling or anything) about $140 Nforce2-based mobo, ideally <$100 However much memory you'd like Cheap case and whatever other peripherals, CD drive, etc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 00:54:24 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:54:24 -0400 Subject: External address forwarding In-Reply-To: <1098987625.418138694ada0-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1098987625.418138694ada0@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <200410282054.24771.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 28 October 2004 14:20, Ilya Palagin wrote: > I'm trying to find solution for an iptables related task. ?There is a > server with external address, which is supposed to be behind a Linux > firewall soon. Right now it's behind the Sonicwall firewall, which provides > with address forwarding. ?It means the following: > > Internet <---> 198.182.196.56_Sonicwall_172.18.1.1 <---> > 198.182.196.56_Server If you are saying "I have a server with IP 198.182.196.56 and want to move it behind a Linux firewall without reconfiguration" then yes it should be no problem. Just proxy arp for 198.182.196.56 on the firewalls public interface. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 01:08:04 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 18:08:04 -0700 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: <41818FD8.20403-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <41818FD8.20403@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On 28-Oct-04, at 17:33, Nezumikozo wrote: > Funny you should mention a sub 500 system.... > > Has anyone checked out http://www.sub500.com/ ? > > Jay Hoeffer I did check them out , and it seems like a decent system to price against at a site like @ sub500.com still appear to be using MSWin / IIS for their website . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:02:12 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:02:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > I've heard reports of people who have that working...but it would take a > bit of tweaking, and I would NOT expect it to have anything near > acceptable performance on a thin client (not until the X servers and window > managers support TRUE transparency, composited on the client). Hi Taavi. What do you mean by True transparency composited on the client? Do you mean the WM should run on the client? It can be done (NCD used to offer it as an option) but I don't see it making much of a difference in performance. I've been a user of thinclients for years and have been very happy with performance. Performance of thinclients is often underrated I find. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:21:32 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:21:32 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1098799273.2766.8.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1099023691.5028.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-10-26 at 10:01, David J Patrick wrote: > NOTICE; this is not (yet) for general distribution. Although not a > secret (dude, you put it on a mailing list ??) this is a > pre-announcement directed towards the TLUG membership. Big splashy press > releases come later. Till then, let's just keep it amongst us geeks, > shall we ? Quite frankly, if this works out, contacting other LUG's might be a /good/ idea. A beating heart for getting aquainted with FLOSS. :-) Any chance there's a linuxcaffe website in the works? - Scott. -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:25:19 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:25:19 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <200410291038.01254.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098815894.2791.72.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410291038.01254.david@dingodave.cjb.net> Message-ID: <1099023918.4505.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 20:38, David Colebatch wrote: > > Seriously, can't wait to get to TO in January...Will it be ready by the > weekend of Jan 8-9? better be ! ;-) but I wouldn't expect all features to be on line by then. > I'll drop by, wearing my Australian flag, Consider wearing more than the flag as it gets a mite nippy in January 'round here. (think -20c) > and you can all call me "Colebatch" and I'll think it's normal. As you know, we Davids are most used to being called by our last names, as it's not uncommon to find half a dozen of us in a room. Also notice that in such a room, things are usually running smoothly .. coincidence ?? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:34:22 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:34:22 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1099023691.5028.29.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1099023691.5028.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099024461.4505.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 00:21, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Any chance there's a linuxcaffe website in the works? a good chance ;p djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:46:50 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:46:50 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1099024461.4505.30.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1099023691.5028.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099024461.4505.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1099025208.5028.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 00:34, David J Patrick wrote: > On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 00:21, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Any chance there's a linuxcaffe website in the works? > a good chance ;p > djp Maybe I should seek anticipation counselling. =) -Scott. -- PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:44:04 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:44:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: UK Govt supports OSS Message-ID: I have not read the entire thing in detail but looks good. http://www.ogc.gov.uk/oss/Report-v8c.htm Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:56:13 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:56:13 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1099025772.4505.51.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 17:33, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > Hello , > > What would you buy and from whom if you had 500$ for a > Linux PC ? -- and already had some components , Consider combining mini-itx system. http://www.damnsmalllinux.org/mini.html (or similar) with a Mandrakesoft Globetrotter http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/globetrotter (or similar) and you'd have all the ports and horsepower, a tiny silent, low power system, extremely portable and modular, for around $500 Order now, from the links above, and support two top notch projects, or get similar stuff @ College & Spadina. djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 04:57:33 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:57:33 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1099025208.5028.43.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1099023691.5028.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1099024461.4505.30.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1099025208.5028.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1099025852.4505.53.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 00:46, Scott Elcomb wrote: > > Maybe I should seek anticipation counselling. =) I CAN'T WAIT TO GET THAT !!! djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 12:20:52 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:20:52 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1099023918.4505.27.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098815894.2791.72.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410291038.01254.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <1099023918.4505.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: > As you know, we Davids are most used to being called by our last names, > as it's not uncommon to find half a dozen of us in a room. Also notice > that in such a room, things are usually running smoothly .. > coincidence ?? I thought you were all named Bruce... like the Monty Python sketch... :-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 12:27:31 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 08:27:31 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f0410281741179840d4-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028235127.GB2130@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f0410281741179840d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:41:45 -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > > For about 500 bucks, try for: > > Mobile Barton 2500+ (and overclock it, I've got a desktop version > running at 3200+ speed fine, only 0.025 volts more needed for complete > stability, no exotic cooling or anything) about $140 > > Nforce2-based mobo, ideally <$100 > However much memory you'd like > Cheap case and whatever other peripherals, CD drive, etc. I'd agree with the AMD Barton CPU and NForce2 chipset idea. I've got a regular AMD 2500+ with Asus A7N8X-X NForce2 board and it is rock solid and quick. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 13:00:39 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:00:39 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? References: <20041028235127.GB2130@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f0410281741179840d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000401c4bdb7$5c605b20$6401a8c0@pcfrancois> I have been a big fan of AMD for many years, since the K6. Sort of getting really out of the M$/Intel domination! Generally speaking you get a lot more power from a AMD than a comparable Intel, for a lot less $$$. Also, Linux runs fine a the new Athlon 64. (XP is still "beta"!) Fran?ois Ouellette ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve" To: Sent: Friday, 29 October, 2004 8:27 Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux PC for 500$ ? > On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 20:41:45 -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > > > > For about 500 bucks, try for: > > > > Mobile Barton 2500+ (and overclock it, I've got a desktop version > > running at 3200+ speed fine, only 0.025 volts more needed for complete > > stability, no exotic cooling or anything) about $140 > > > > Nforce2-based mobo, ideally <$100 > > However much memory you'd like > > Cheap case and whatever other peripherals, CD drive, etc. > > I'd agree with the AMD Barton CPU and NForce2 chipset idea. I've got a > regular AMD 2500+ with Asus A7N8X-X NForce2 board and it is rock solid > and quick. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 13:31:00 2004 From: dmx9595-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:31:00 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? References: <41818FD8.20403@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <004801c4bdbb$87abbe10$b521fea9@3L1T3> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lloyd D Budd" To: Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 9:08 PM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Linux PC for 500$ ? > On 28-Oct-04, at 17:33, Nezumikozo wrote: > > > Funny you should mention a sub 500 system.... > > > > Has anyone checked out http://www.sub500.com/ ? > > > > Jay Hoeffer > > I did check them out , and it seems like a decent system to > price against at a site like @ > > sub500.com still appear to be using MSWin / IIS for > their website . lol yeah i walked into the first and only linux only store and what was the first thing i saw? windows on a hudge flat screen monitor, i was like oh man come on dude! wtf lol, i commented on it and hes like yeah i dunno windows on there something must be wrong with it ;) Steve. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 13:33:27 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:33:27 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041029133327.GD8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 02:33:04PM -0700, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > What would you buy and from whom if you had 500$ for a > Linux PC ? -- and already had some components , see below . > > I want to buy a new (to me) desktop Linux PC. Probably, the > biggest issues for me buying a PC is cost , and > getting a completely Linux friendly system > ( , supporting Linux friendly companies) . When I did have > money ;-) , my last two computers have been Macs , and > a factor was it not being MS and that they have integrated > hardware . > > I would like to spend less than 500$ (no monitor), and I am not > particularly interested in spending as close to that amount . > Like everyone I am looking for the best value . If best value > is 400$ or some other amount then that is excellent . > > My use will be desktop computing and hopefully some > development . Other considerations : > * I have a Hauppauge! PVR-250 card looking for a home . > * Video card likely is not as important as for now I will access > from my iMac using X Window / VNC . > * I have quite a bit of 100 and 133 RAM , can that be used for now ? Not on anything new that's for sure. Only DDR333 and DDR400 is really of use on modern mainboards. Also much cheaper to buy (and hence expand) > * I have quite a few large IDE hard drives Do you have a video card? cdrom? dvd? Do you need any of those for the machine? How about an ATX case with a 300W or so power supply? If I was building a new machine I would probably go for something like this: For a tried and true known to work but very much becoming obsolete fast: Mainboard: Asus A7N8X-E-DX (has everything onboard except video just about) $114 CPU: Any 333MHz FSB AMD Athlon or Semptron Socket A such as XP 2700+ at 2.2GHz for $155 or Semptron 3000+ (2.0 or 2.2GHz (not sure)) for $167. Memory: 2 * 256M ($51 each) Vide: MSI FX5500 $130 or similar (5200/5500/5700 are decent cheap video cards). DVI + VGA + S-video outputs for multi monitor and/or tv support. Total for Socket-A: $501 (plus a case and floppy/cdrom and such). A cheaper video card can be found for around $85 or so if single monitor is enough for a FX5200 card. For something with future potential for upgrades although never top of the line: Mainboard: Asus K8V-X $106 (or add another sata/ide controller with K8V for $127 or also firewire with K8V-SE-DX for $151) CPU: Semptron 3100+ 1.8Ghz Socket 754 (can later be replaced by Athlon64 socket 754 CPU) $169 Memory: 512M DDR400 ($102) Video: Same as above Total for Socket 754: $507 (plus same as above). Case if you don't have one can probably be had for around $40-60 for something with a decent 300 to 350W power supply. Mouse and keyboard is about $10 each for logitech or similar quality. With a slightly cheaper FX5200 video card you could get the case and such and still have the total (before taxes) come into around $500. Well that's my suggestions for budget upgrades. I think I would personally go for the socket 754 which has new CPUs coming out over the next few years rather than Socket A which is end of line essentially. I know every part of rh A7N8X-E-DX works with linux (except the dolby digital encoder DSP). From what I have read everything on the K8V chipset works fine too. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 13:35:10 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:35:10 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: <20041028235127.GB2130@node1.opengeometry.net> <96aa4e8f0410281741179840d4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041029133510.GE8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 08:27:31AM -0400, Steve wrote: > I'd agree with the AMD Barton CPU and NForce2 chipset idea. I've got a > regular AMD 2500+ with Asus A7N8X-X NForce2 board and it is rock solid > and quick. Unfortunately it seems barton CPUs may be going out of production. At least the place I tend to buy stuff only has athlon 64's and a couple of athlon XPs that don't really look like barton based. The rest of the socket A's are semptron's now. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 13:36:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:36:50 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: <41818FD8.20403@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041029133650.GF8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 06:08:04PM -0700, Lloyd D Budd wrote: > On 28-Oct-04, at 17:33, Nezumikozo wrote: > > >Funny you should mention a sub 500 system.... > > > >Has anyone checked out http://www.sub500.com/ ? > > > >Jay Hoeffer > > I did check them out , and it seems like a decent system to > price against at a site like @ > > sub500.com still appear to be using MSWin / IIS for > their website . And if you already have a monitor and HD, you can get a lot better hardware for $500. I wouldn't buy an ECS motherboard personally. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 13:39:35 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:39:35 -0400 Subject: UK Govt supports OSS In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041029133935.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 12:44:04AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > I have not read the entire thing in detail but looks good. > > http://www.ogc.gov.uk/oss/Report-v8c.htm They don't really "support" OSS as much as say it should be seriously considered as an option for all bids, especially to consider future vendor lock-ins, although if you are already locked in to a vendor don't spend a fortune just to go OSS, rather consider how to in the future break out of the lock-in using whatever method is most affordable long term. They do list a few places where OSS is likely to be a good fit. At least that's how I understood it. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 13:42:32 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 09:42:32 -0400 Subject: External address forwarding In-Reply-To: <1099003732.4181775421590-KF6ThnGZjeO1XNean4zUJw@public.gmane.org> References: <1098987625.418138694ada0@www.almatau.com> <4181730B.7080401@alteeve.com> <1099003732.4181775421590@www.almatau.com> Message-ID: <20041029134232.GH8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Oct 28, 2004 at 06:48:52PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Thanks, but the problem is that right now there is only one public address - > firewall accepts connections on it and forwards it to the server with the same > IP: > > Internet <---> 198.182.196.56_Sonicwall_172.18.1.1 <---> 198.182.196.56_Server What excactly is the configuration on the internal server? What is it's gateway ip set to? What is it's subnet mask and such? This looks almost like a bridging firewall rather than a routing firewall. Linux can do ethernet bridging transparently and do firewalling at the same time, whcih may be what you would want for such a setup. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 05:56:23 2004 From: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org (Hal Marion) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:56:23 -0500 Subject: nuisance Message-ID: Drew,& We are going to be closing soon! We have the highest quality, and now, lowest priced prescription drugs online. Buy something while you still can! VI3AGRA C4ialis VALIU+M X7ANAX http://ibozocatswi.tank3chide.info/b12m fiendish billet scuff plantation conformance claudio vacuous toodle modulate pathology thespian condescend gleeful scrub chimera scottish fend cabin willful cargoes dishevel compressor bstj cistern disturb lost ovum baldpate introduce cavalry . From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 14:09:42 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: UK Govt supports OSS In-Reply-To: <20041029133935.GG8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041029133935.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <35030.209.29.34.110.1099058982.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> I agree with this opinion too. They basically say that for the server part Linux is now considered a mature platform and combined with server consolidation it can represent significant savings as an evolutionary solution. However, for the desktop side OSS is "not yet there" and still needs some polishing. The server consolidation business is fairly active these days, many organisations just woke up and realized that managing a farm of hundreds or thousands of under-utilized UNIX or M$ servers is not the best. We can now find powerful x86 boxes with Linux that represent a very cost-effective option to proprietary Unix solutions, especially when consolidating. There are several public services (and private organizations) in north-america that have already switched to Linux as a server platform and are very happy with it. There is even a "mainframe Linux" just announced in August from Unisys, which will offer a true multi-processor Linux (SuSe and Red Hat) solution built as a mainframe, with partitions and all, in 32 and 64-bit versions. http://www.unisys.com/products/es7000__linux/index.htm It's getting there! Fran?ois Ouellette > On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 12:44:04AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >> I have not read the entire thing in detail but looks good. >> >> http://www.ogc.gov.uk/oss/Report-v8c.htm > > They don't really "support" OSS as much as say it should be seriously > considered as an option for all bids, especially to consider future > vendor lock-ins, although if you are already locked in to a vendor don't > spend a fortune just to go OSS, rather consider how to in the future > break out of the lock-in using whatever method is most affordable long > term. They do list a few places where OSS is likely to be a good fit. > > At least that's how I understood it. > > Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 14:10:07 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:10:07 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Here's my suggestion (and reasons): 1) CPU - AMD Athlon 2500+ - $127 2) Motherboard - Asus A7N8X-X - $85 3) RAM - OCZ400512PH Premier 512M PC3200 DDR - $128 4) Video - MSI FX5200-TD128 - $79 5) Case+PS - Antec Solution SLK2650BQE - $89 Total: $508 + applicable taxes (current prices at www.cty.ca - a store which I highly recommend) 1) I'd pick the Athlon because it has 512K cache versus the new Sempron's 256K cache. 2500+ is the most economical and offers very good performance. 2) A7N8X-X has the excellent NVidia NForce2 chipset. This motherboard doesn't have Serial ATA or Firewire though... if you need/want those, select the Deluxe variant of this board (for more money). 3) OCZ RAM is very solid and has good performance. 4) NVidia chipset video card... this is the lowest of the line but offers excellent performance for most circumstances. 5) Antec cases and power supplies are very high quality, and this one is supposed to be very quiet too. Of course this system will not be acceptable for real 3D gaming. You'd need to at least double your budget for that. This is almost identical to my current system that I've had for about a year of heavy use. I have a different model of OCZ RAM and a different Antec case. I would also not consider a dual-channel memory board for AMD CPU's as I've talked to people and read reviews that the performance gain from dual-channel on AMD's is almost imperceptible. HTH... let us know what you pick! -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 14:15:16 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:15:16 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026180203.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098815894.2791.72.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410291038.01254.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <1099023918.4505.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1099059315.2769.0.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 08:20, Steve wrote: > I thought you were all named Bruce... like the Monty Python sketch... :-) A room full of Bruces is a /completely/ different scene, mate ! > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 14:20:11 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:20:11 -0400 Subject: nuisance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1099059610.2769.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 01:56, Hal Marion wrote: > Drew,& > > We are going to be closing soon! Fer cryin' out loud, Drew, couldn,t you have your Viagra sento to your house ? Or does your mother ask too many questions .. :p djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 14:23:37 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: nuisance In-Reply-To: <1099059610.2769.3.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1099059610.2769.3.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:20:11 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 01:56, Hal Marion wrote: > > Drew,& > > > > We are going to be closing soon! > > Fer cryin' out loud, Drew, couldn,t you have your Viagra sento to your > house ? Or does your mother ask too many questions .. LOL! ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 14:44:45 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:44:45 +1000 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1099023918.4505.27.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410291038.01254.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <1099023918.4505.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200410300044.45325.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Friday 29 October 2004 14:25, David J Patrick wrote: > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 20:38, David Colebatch wrote: > > Seriously, can't wait to get to TO in January...Will it be ready by the > > weekend of Jan 8-9? > > better be ! ;-) but I wouldn't expect all features to be on line by > then. If not, I'll lend a hand to get it online! > > I'll drop by, wearing my Australian flag, > > Consider wearing more than the flag as it gets a mite nippy in January > 'round here. (think -20c) Ouch. -20... it's cold tonight, ~12c ...I had a scarfe on outside... > > and you can all call me "Colebatch" and I'll think it's normal. > > As you know, we Davids are most used to being called by our last names, > as it's not uncommon to find half a dozen of us in a room. Also notice > that in such a room, things are usually running smoothly .. > coincidence ?? I think not.... :) -David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 15:06:52 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 11:06:52 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <200410300044.45325.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410291038.01254.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <1099023918.4505.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410300044.45325.david@dingodave.cjb.net> Message-ID: <20041029150652.GI8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 12:44:45AM +1000, David Colebatch wrote: > Ouch. -20... it's cold tonight, ~12c ...I had a scarfe on outside... And that is during the daytime. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 16:25:49 2004 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:25:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: PHP Nuke alternatives Message-ID: <20041029162549.14269.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> I've been thinking of finally getting around to using some sort of an open source portal for my web needs. I'd been working on my own PHP frameworks for quite some time now, but I find that I'm no longer really willing to keep re-inventing the wheel and build user, article, security, gallery, news, etc components for my site. I'd been eyeing PHP Nuke (www.phpnuke.org) for a number of months as an alternative that I could use, and then customize to fit my needs. Unfortunately, it now looks like in the spirit of open source (insert sarcasm here) you need to pay for the latest version of PHP Nuke. Whatever other portal system I would use would need to address the following: - user and security - articles and news - galleries - forums - easy customization (addition of custom components, etc) Coding has never been a problem for me, I'm pretty well versed in that, that's not the issue here. I'd simply rather focus (with what limited time I have) on content and more interesting custom code. Any ideas? Thanks in advance, -Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 16:31:07 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:31:07 -0400 Subject: UK Govt supports OSS In-Reply-To: <35030.209.29.34.110.1099058982.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20041029133935.GG8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <35030.209.29.34.110.1099058982.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <4182704B.1040505@rogers.com> Francois Ouellette wrote: > There is even a "mainframe Linux" just announced in August from Unisys, > which will offer a true multi-processor Linux (SuSe and Red Hat) solution > built as a mainframe, with partitions and all, in 32 and 64-bit versions. > > http://www.unisys.com/products/es7000__linux/index.htm > > It's getting there! Hmmm... And Christmas is less than two months away. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 16:33:03 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:33:03 -0400 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <200410300044.45325.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410291038.01254.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <1099023918.4505.27.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410300044.45325.david@dingodave.cjb.net> Message-ID: <1099067582.2769.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 10:44, David Colebatch wrote: > On Friday 29 October 2004 14:25, David J Patrick wrote: > > On Thu, 2004-10-28 at 20:38, David Colebatch wrote: > > > Seriously, can't wait to get to TO in January...Will it be ready by the > > > weekend of Jan 8-9? > > > > better be ! ;-) but I wouldn't expect all features to be on line by > > then. > > If not, I'll lend a hand to get it online! /That's/ the spirit ! What's your area of enthusiasm/ expertise ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 16:36:41 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:36:41 -0400 Subject: PHP Nuke alternatives In-Reply-To: <20041029162549.14269.qmail-KqvIsxqYR2SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041029162549.14269.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41827199.1060508@detachednetworks.ca> Matthew Godycki wrote: >I've been thinking of finally getting around to using >some sort of an open source portal for my web needs. >I'd been working on my own PHP frameworks for quite >some time now, but I find that I'm no longer really >willing to keep re-inventing the wheel and build user, >article, security, gallery, news, etc components for >my site. > >I'd been eyeing PHP Nuke (www.phpnuke.org) for a >number of months as an alternative that I could use, >and then customize to fit my needs. Unfortunately, it >now looks like in the spirit of open source (insert >sarcasm here) you need to pay for the latest version >of PHP Nuke. > >Whatever other portal system I would use would need to >address the following: >- user and security >- articles and news >- galleries >- forums >- easy customization (addition of custom components, >etc) > >Coding has never been a problem for me, I'm pretty >well versed in that, that's not the issue here. I'd >simply rather focus (with what limited time I have) on >content and more interesting custom code. > >Any ideas? > >Thanks in advance, >-Matt >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > Mambo works great http://mamboserver.com and a quote from their site "Mambo has won the LinuxUser & Developer Award 2004 for'Best Linux or Open Source Software'. Mambo competed against open source luminaries such as KDE, Firebird SQL, and eGroupware." -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ //\ Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 16:41:35 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:41:35 -0400 Subject: PHP Nuke alternatives In-Reply-To: <20041029162549.14269.qmail-KqvIsxqYR2SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041029162549.14269.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1099068095.5650.7.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 12:25 -0400, Matthew Godycki wrote: > Whatever other portal system I would use would need to > address the following: > - user and security > - articles and news > - galleries > - forums > - easy customization (addition of custom components, > etc) It's hard to beat Drupal. That's what I use. http://groundstate.ca Here's a big list of sites using: http://drupal.org/sites It has all of the features you mentioned. Also allows (if you want) people to use their existing login/account-info from all other drupal-based sites, which is cool. The photo gallery is a bit weak (IMHO), but supposed to be improved in next release. Highly configurable if you know even a bit of PHP. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 15:45:47 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:45:47 -0300 Subject: PHP Nuke alternatives In-Reply-To: <20041029162549.14269.qmail-KqvIsxqYR2SB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041029162549.14269.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1099064747.18789.5.camel@devinsbox.synapticivision.com> On Fri, 2004-10-29 at 12:25 -0400, Matthew Godycki wrote: > I've been thinking of finally getting around to using > some sort of an open source portal for my web needs. > I'd been working on my own PHP frameworks for quite > some time now, but I find that I'm no longer really > willing to keep re-inventing the wheel and build user, > article, security, gallery, news, etc components for > my site. > > I'd been eyeing PHP Nuke (www.phpnuke.org) for a > number of months as an alternative that I could use, > and then customize to fit my needs. Unfortunately, it > now looks like in the spirit of open source (insert > sarcasm here) you need to pay for the latest version > of PHP Nuke. > > Whatever other portal system I would use would need to > address the following: > - user and security > - articles and news > - galleries > - forums > - easy customization (addition of custom components, > etc) > > Coding has never been a problem for me, I'm pretty > well versed in that, that's not the issue here. I'd > simply rather focus (with what limited time I have) on > content and more interesting custom code. > > Any ideas? > > Thanks in advance, > -Matt Hey, I have used Post Nuke in the past. I found it a little buggy though, but just altered the code when I saw an error. I don't know if they are related to phpNuke but they are free. http://www.postnuke.com/ However, Mambo looks to be a lot better so you might want to check that out: http://www.mamboserver.com/ I think they both have everything you need. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 Take back the Web with FireFox....a browser you can trust www.getfirefox.com .-. /v\ L I N U X // \\ /( )\ ^^-^^ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 19:01:39 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:01:39 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:02:12 -0400 (EDT), Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi Taavi. What do you mean by True transparency composited on the client? AFAIK all of the currently implemented transparency schemes involve heavy communication between the X server and the X client: the X client does the rendering, fetching current screen state from the X server, and then dumps the composited image back to the X server. I wouldn't want to do that on the wire. When things get to the point where the X client program just says "This is my alpha channel" and the X server composites everything, then the speed will be quite acceptable. Using proper compositing like this has other advantages, too (like the elimination of 'tearing' when dragging one window across another, because no application ever has to redraw itself because as far as it's concerned, it's never obscured. Things were done all ugly-like in the past because things were rendered direclty onto video memory, which was all being displayed on the screen. I seem to recall hearing that some of the high end UNIX workstation video cards got around this with multiplane setups and stuff...but this also tended to limit colour depth...I think. I'm probably in way over my head at this point in the discussion. > Do you mean the WM should run on the client? It can be done (NCD used to > offer it as an option) but I don't see it making much of a difference in > performance. I've been a user of thinclients for years and have been very > happy with performance. Performance of thinclients is often underrated I > find. Nope, the WM can run on the terminal server. I was only speaking of transparency being computed on the thin client (X server) vs the server+lotsofchatteronthewire (X client). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 19:03:46 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 12:03:46 -0700 Subject: PHP Nuke alternatives In-Reply-To: <1099068095.5650.7.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20041029162549.14269.qmail@web88001.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <1099068095.5650.7.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <42A110FE-29DD-11D9-A760-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 29-Oct-04, at 9:41, Austin wrote: > It's hard to beat Drupal. That's what I use. > http://groundstate.ca > > Here's a big list of sites using: > http://drupal.org/sites My friend Boris Mann in Vancouver has been a Drupal enthusiast for some time , and now has a business centered around it , . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 19:15:24 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 15:15:24 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041029191524.GJ8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 03:01:39PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > AFAIK all of the currently implemented transparency schemes involve heavy > communication between the X server and the X client: the X client does the > rendering, fetching current screen state from the X server, and then dumps > the composited image back to the X server. I wouldn't want to do that on > the wire. > > When things get to the point where the X client program just says "This is my > alpha channel" and the X server composites everything, then the speed will > be quite acceptable. Using proper compositing like this has other advantages, > too (like the elimination of 'tearing' when dragging one window across another, > because no application ever has to redraw itself because as far as > it's concerned, > it's never obscured. > > Things were done all ugly-like in the past because things were rendered direclty > onto video memory, which was all being displayed on the screen. I > seem to recall > hearing that some of the high end UNIX workstation video cards got around this > with multiplane setups and stuff...but this also tended to limit > colour depth...I think. I know some SGI's used to have only 256 colour palletes, but they had one pallete per running program and could handle a rather large number of programs at once, so effectively you were getting much more than 256 colour, but each application was limited. Perhaps they did it to do planes for alpha channels and such. They also ran opengl on them as far as I know (or perhaps irisgl at the time). > I'm probably in way over my head at this point in the discussion. > > Nope, the WM can run on the terminal server. I was only speaking of > transparency > being computed on the thin client (X server) vs the > server+lotsofchatteronthewire > (X client). Yeah when NCD had the WM (motif in their case) on the X display, it really wasn't very fast at it, although perhaps largely due to lack of processing power on the device. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 20:25:23 2004 From: denisov-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Igor Denisov) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:25:23 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <96aa4e8f041029132565690d1f@mail.gmail.com> Lloyd mentioned: >* Video card likely is not as important as for now I will access >from my iMac using X Window / VNC . So you can just get an ATi Rage XL for <20 bucks, I've got one running in my server and it does superbly. Also, I do believe that some of the Nforce boards come with video integrated, so hey, that saves a bit more cash :-) not sure how well Linux cooperates with the onboard video though Also, is this going to be an always-on machine? If so, get a brand-name power supply and have a few fans going inside for good cooling. Again, I'd get a Mobile Barton 2500+ if you go with AMD. It is only ~20-30 bucks more than a regular 2500+ and runs a whole lot cooler at default settings (its vcore is something like 1.4 volts while the desktop version's is 1.65) Right now, an Athlon 64 is a bit out of the $500 ballpark, even for a 2800+ with a cheap mobo (don't get a cheap mobo :-) in reviews, I've seen a socket 754 FIC get destroyed by an Asus model that was 30 bucks more) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 20:41:47 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 16:41:47 -0400 Subject: Linux PC for 500$ ? In-Reply-To: <96aa4e8f041029132565690d1f-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <96aa4e8f041029132565690d1f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20041029204147.GK8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 04:25:23PM -0400, Igor Denisov wrote: > So you can just get an ATi Rage XL for <20 bucks, I've got one running > in my server and it does superbly. Also, I do believe that some of the > Nforce boards come with video integrated, so hey, that saves a bit > more cash :-) not sure how well Linux cooperates with the onboard > video though > > Also, is this going to be an always-on machine? > If so, get a brand-name power supply and have a few fans going inside > for good cooling. > > Again, I'd get a Mobile Barton 2500+ if you go with AMD. > It is only ~20-30 bucks more than a regular 2500+ and runs a whole lot > cooler at default settings (its vcore is something like 1.4 volts > while the desktop version's is 1.65) > > Right now, an Athlon 64 is a bit out of the $500 ballpark, even for a > 2800+ with a cheap mobo > (don't get a cheap mobo :-) in reviews, I've seen a socket 754 FIC > get destroyed by an Asus model that was 30 bucks more) Well it seems you can get a quality asus socket 754 board with a cpu for about $500 (and ram too of course) and even a low end nvidia card. Not really any different in price than a barton 2500+ on an nforce2 board. At least not more than maybe $50. Of course the socket 939 are faster due to dual channel ram. Also cost more. Those would be hard to do for $500. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 22:03:27 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Job(s) Message-ID: Hi all. I received this as the TLUG contact. This appears to be one or more real positions open at the moment. Contact the person below for details, not me as I don't know anymore. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 10:58:20 -0400 From: greg harmandayan To: don-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Subject: Linux Recruiter Good morning, I wanted to ask for your assistance in helping me find qualified candidates with strong linux programming backgrounds for a client of mine. My name is Greg Harmandayan, and bluntly put I'm a headhunter with comp eng background from UofT. First and foremost i'm looking for real sharp minds, the rest is just technical (experience with embedded linux, C, C++, working knowledge of MPEG, MP3, linux file systems, all the ins and outs at the kernel level, firmware, low level BIOS, ISRs, DSP. I can go on and on, but real hands on experience with any combination of those technical components would get my attention). It's within the handheld arena, so device driver experience is the real key. If you, or any of your colleagues know of anyone interested in such positions please do not hesitate to contact me and I'd be more than happy to discuss details of the permanent positions. Again, this is strictly a Linux environment and that's why I've contacted you from the tlug site. Kind Regards, Greg Harmandayan CFO, Huntech Consultants Inc. 416.435.7981 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 22:15:21 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 18:15:21 -0400 Subject: Linux Job(s) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041029221521.GA518@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Oct 29, 2004 at 06:03:27PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. I received this as the TLUG contact. This appears to be one or > more real positions open at the moment. > > Contact the person below for details, not me as I don't know anymore. > > Cheers, > Rob It's spam. I got that too. Notice that it has From: don-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org but was sent to . -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 23:37:20 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:37:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux Job(s) In-Reply-To: <20041029221521.GA518-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041029221521.GA518@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, William Park wrote: > It's spam. I got that too. Notice that it has > From: don-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org > but was sent to . I replied to the person and got a response before posting it. I decided to take it in good faith. If it was spam I got duped good. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Fri Oct 29 23:48:25 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:48:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > AFAIK all of the currently implemented transparency schemes involve heavy > communication between the X server and the X client: the X client does the X is heavier than GDI but to be honest the only really bad bit is the negotiation of colour mapping between the server and client. Once you get past that X is quite snappy even over a relatively slow encrypted ssh session (without compression). I regularly start Mozilla from inside our company network and display it at remote sites so I can access certain web based apps like our tracking system. Bandwidth usage is low enough that nobody cares. I also start and use X apps from my server in Australia from time to time. Ie I'll actually be interacting with the app. People used to use thinclients on 10Mb/s hubs (and slower). On a 100Mb/s switch it is a breeze. I'll actually be demonstrating a Linux based thinclient at Penguin Day (Nov 20) and will be starting various apps from Australia to show it does work. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 04:03:48 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 00:03:48 -0400 Subject: Penguin Days Message-ID: <20041030040348.GE16092@neko.afraid.org> I want to send out another Penguin Day notice. So far I haven't been contacted about either of the 2 Clue sponsorships available. If you are interested contact me off list. 23 days and counting until Penguin Day! (and 2 days until the Early-Bird closes!) We really want your participation -- as a workshop leader who facilitates conversation, a speedgeeker who demonstrates a cool open source tool, or as a volunteer who pitches in. If you are passionate about open source and want to help -- or just want to attend -- take the time today to go to: http://toronto.penguinday.ca/Registration If you haven't already, you should register ASAP to take advantage of the early bird price of $50 until October 31st and $75 after. -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 05:37:40 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 01:37:40 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 19:48:25 -0400 (EDT), Robert Brockway wrote: > X is heavier than GDI but to be honest the only really bad bit is the > negotiation of colour mapping between the server and client. Once you get > past that X is quite snappy even over a relatively slow encrypted ssh > session (without compression). But is that displaying any transparency? ;) AFAIK the way KDE currently does its transparency is that the client fetches a bitmap of the to-be-superimposed area, composities it on the client, and then sends that bitmap back to the server. That's got to be pretty nasty on the bandwidth, if not just the lag it induces. For plain opaque X, it's not all that bad. Compress the ssh tunnel ("ssh -C -X user at host") and it can be almost snappy, and definitely useable, though I often find that I'd rather use vnc so I can disconnect and reconnect (I love 'screen' for the same reason). > People used to use thinclients on 10Mb/s hubs (and slower). On a 100Mb/s > switch it is a breeze. The GIMP works wonderfully over a full 10Mb/s link. But if you stick 20 clients on an 802.11b wireless network... Perhaps some 802.11g cards would be in order anyway. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 06:04:42 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:04:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > The GIMP works wonderfully over a full 10Mb/s link. But if you stick 20 > clients on an 802.11b wireless network... Perhaps some 802.11g cards > would be in order anyway. ;) I think we still disagree over how much X data can be reasonably pushed over a broadcast network. I've seen 30 or more Xterminals in simultaneous use go fine on a 10Mb/sec hub. Note, this is without streaming video. Streaming video will soak up the bandwidth and needs to be factored in if it is going to be allowed. If the users are mostly just web browsing or using conventional apps I think it would be fine. Remember, X does not transmit information until something changes (there may be keep alive packets, I'd have to check). I do agree however that 802.11g would definitely be preferable :) At this point we may have to agree to disagree until further hard data becomes available. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 06:59:08 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 02:59:08 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1099119548.2813.132.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 02:04, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > > > The GIMP works wonderfully over a full 10Mb/s link. But if you stick 20 > > clients on an 802.11b wireless network... Perhaps some 802.11g cards > > would be in order anyway. ;) maybe ! > > I think we still disagree over how much X data can be reasonably pushed > over a broadcast network. I've seen 30 or more Xterminals in simultaneous > use go fine on a 10Mb/sec hub. > > Note, this is without streaming video. Streaming video will soak up the > bandwidth and needs to be factored in if it is going to be allowed. Streaming video maybe yes, maybe no, streaming audio almost certainly. perhaps limits to sample length and/or quality must be imposed, but we will want to test this. > If > the users are mostly just web browsing or using conventional apps I think > it would be fine. Remember, X does not transmit information until > something changes (there may be keep alive packets, I'd have to check). > > I do agree however that 802.11g would definitely be preferable :) We'll experiment with both. There's a cost factor, how about hardware compatability issues ? > > At this point we may have to agree to disagree until further hard data > becomes available. testing 123 djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 08:54:08 2004 From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:54:08 +1000 Subject: Caffe Bickford is now linuxcaffe, and you're invited ! In-Reply-To: <1099067582.2769.22.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200410300044.45325.david@dingodave.cjb.net> <1099067582.2769.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200410301854.08757.david@dingodave.cjb.net> On Saturday 30 October 2004 02:33, David J Patrick wrote: > > If not, I'll lend a hand to get it online! > > /That's/ the spirit ! > What's your area of enthusiasm/ expertise ? In the past two years, one of my best achievements was setting up a pxes thin client system at work. About 20 clients, over a mixture of 100Mbps and 10mbps (It runs fine BTW). Using pxes as a base saved quite a bit of time for us as it gave me a great base to go off (Had to do a lot of hacking IIRC to finish the job) These days, some of the thin clients have printers hooked up and a acting as print servers. Sound though, I haven't tried (not a requirement). Other than that, my next biggest project has been building information systems with php, java and MySQL. ...I have different views about MySQL now, and think postgreSql would have been better. Then there's the wireless networking I've done, the VPN for the WAN and yada yada... Do you want my Resume? ;) Regards, David -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From troworld-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 15:52:16 2004 From: troworld-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Dmitri Vassilenko) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 11:52:16 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe.ca is up ! In-Reply-To: <1099119869.2813.139.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1099119869.2813.139.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: It's actually called TikiWiki (http://www.tikiwiki.org), not Twiki (http://www.twiki.org/). :) Dmitri On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:04:30 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > Thanks to awesome efforts of Leigh Honeywell (www.geek-girls.ca) the > first online incaration of linuxcaffe.ca is on line ! > Styles will change, features will come and go, but we now have a spot on > the web. You will visit, won't you ? > djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 17:56:50 2004 From: bassix-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Steve) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:56:50 -0400 Subject: VIA Epia Mini-ITX boards Message-ID: Hi, As someone interested in these boards, I also remember a thread talking about where to get these products... I just found a place in Markham that stocks some: Sales-QVObF66B6qcD8XYcrmMGZmZtm2MBb6oo at public.gmane.org 505 Hood Road, Unit #7 Markham Ontario L3R 5V6 CANADA Tel: (905) 305-8676 Fax: (905) 305-8674 Code Description Availability Price CS-MX-CUBID 2677 MOREX MINI ITX CASE 2677R WITH BUILD IN 60W DC-DC POWER STOCK AVAILABLE 95.00 Code Description Availability Price NC-VI-EPIA-V8000A VIA EPIA800 S370 W/ C3 800MHZ PLE133 2DIMM 1PCI LAN INTEG. STOCK AVAILABLE 105.00 NC-VI-EPIA-VE5000 VIA EPIA5000 S370 W/ C3 533MHZ PLE133 2DIMM 1PCI LAN INTEG STOCK AVAILABLE 116.00 I've been to this store a few times and they seem very reputable/friendly, with good prices. Just wanted to let the other interested people know about this. Looks like they currently only stock older/lower-end models of the VIA's, but they may be able to order anything you want. HTH. -Steve. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vertaxis-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 18:09:45 2004 From: vertaxis-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (vertaxis) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 14:09:45 -0400 Subject: VIA Epia Mini-ITX boards In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20041030140328.022eb080@pop.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> I was looking for Via Epia boards in TO and couldn't find anything. Then I found a place in Kingston that has a whole line of current boards as stock. http://www.bytewizecomputers.com/ I ordered an Epia CL 10000 with a C3 processor; it comes with dual 10/100 NICs onboard. For $248.98, it'll make a nice firewall box. The prices on some of their other parts are pretty good as well, so if you spend over $450.00, shipping is free in Canada. John At 01:56 PM 2004/10/30 -0400, you wrote: >Hi, > >As someone interested in these boards, I also remember a thread >talking about where to get these products... I just found a place in >Markham that stocks some: > > >Sales-QVObF66B6qcD8XYcrmMGZmZtm2MBb6oo at public.gmane.org >505 Hood Road, Unit #7 Markham Ontario L3R 5V6 CANADA >Tel: (905) 305-8676 Fax: (905) 305-8674 > > >Code Description Availability Price >CS-MX-CUBID 2677 MOREX MINI ITX CASE 2677R WITH BUILD IN 60W DC-DC >POWER STOCK AVAILABLE 95.00 > > >Code Description Availability Price >NC-VI-EPIA-V8000A VIA EPIA800 S370 W/ C3 800MHZ PLE133 2DIMM 1PCI LAN >INTEG. STOCK AVAILABLE 105.00 >NC-VI-EPIA-VE5000 VIA EPIA5000 S370 W/ C3 533MHZ PLE133 2DIMM 1PCI >LAN INTEG STOCK AVAILABLE 116.00 > > >I've been to this store a few times and they seem very >reputable/friendly, with good prices. Just wanted to let the other >interested people know about this. Looks like they currently only >stock older/lower-end models of the VIA's, but they may be able to >order anything you want. > >HTH. > >-Steve. >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 19:13:03 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:13:03 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 02:04:42AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > > > The GIMP works wonderfully over a full 10Mb/s link. But if you stick > > 20 clients on an 802.11b wireless network... Perhaps some 802.11g > > cards would be in order anyway. ;) > > I think we still disagree over how much X data can be reasonably > pushed over a broadcast network. I've seen 30 or more Xterminals > in simultaneous use go fine on a 10Mb/sec hub. Another thing to remember is the difference between KDE/Gnome *DESKTOPS* versus KDE/Gnome *APPLICATIONS*. My Dell Dimension XPS 450 (yes 450 mhz) with 128 megs of RAM had its 5th birthday in September. It is absolutely brutal with a KDE or Gnome *DESKTOP*, taking forever to come up, and then moving in slow motion. However, if I install KDE and Gnome, and use BlackBox as the WM, it's quite snappy. And yes, I *CAN* use Gnome and KDE *APPLICATIONS* like Gnumeric, gnome-panel, AbiWord, Gimp, etc. I put icons on the panel, and I can quickly call up often-used apps. To get the most out of my system, I use CRUX linux ( http://crux.nu ). It's lightweight, BSD-flavoured, and their "ports" system consists of build-scripts. Calling an install script results in automatically downloading the tarball and building it locally. The defaults are "-O2 -march=i686", so I get as much performance as possible. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 19:20:11 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 15:20:11 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> References: <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> Message-ID: <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? On 15:13 Sat 30 Oct , Walter Dnes wrote: > build-scripts. Calling an install script results in automatically > downloading the tarball and building it locally. The defaults are > "-O2 -march=i686", so I get as much performance as possible. > -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 07:04:30 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 03:04:30 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe.ca is up ! Message-ID: <1099119869.2813.139.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Thanks to awesome efforts of Leigh Honeywell (www.geek-girls.ca) the first online incaration of linuxcaffe.ca is on line ! Styles will change, features will come and go, but we now have a spot on the web. You will visit, won't you ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 21:43:02 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 17:43:02 -0400 Subject: Where to buy SIP phone in Toronto? Message-ID: <41840AE6.4040401@deeptown.org> Hollo everybody, Does somebody knows where to buy SIP phone in Toronto? I am looking for the SIP phone with good price to quality ratio. All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 22:54:26 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:54:26 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <20041030192011.GB18158-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <20041030225426.GC7426@m450> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 03:20:11PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote > I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I > typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 > 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? There will be a little benefit, but not that much. According to the online gcc manual at... http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.2/gcc/Optimize-Options.html#Optimize-Options -O3 Optimize yet more. -O3 turns on all optimizations specified by -O2 and also turns on the -finline-functions, -fweb and -frename-registers options. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 22:59:33 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 18:59:33 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <20041030225426.GC7426@m450> References: <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> <20041030225426.GC7426@m450> Message-ID: <1099177173.5429.14.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Sat, 2004-10-30 at 18:54 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 03:20:11PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote > > I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I > > typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 > > 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? > > There will be a little benefit, but not that much. Yep. And on occasion, it may add instability. We had problems with both mozilla and openoffice built at -O3. We (Mandrake folks) build everything at -O2 for the best balance of stability and speed. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 23:07:34 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:07:34 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <20041030225426.GC7426@m450> References: <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> <20041030225426.GC7426@m450> Message-ID: <20041030230734.GD18158@neko.afraid.org> I understand that more optimizations are turned on, but I have also heard that as a result binaries are bigger. Thus improvements in program 'snappiness' are offset by slower launch times. Recently I am increasingly sensitive to lauch time and want to find the right balance. On 18:54 Sat 30 Oct , Walter Dnes wrote: > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 03:20:11PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote > > I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I > > typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 > > 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? > > There will be a little benefit, but not that much. According to the > online gcc manual at... > > http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.4.2/gcc/Optimize-Options.html#Optimize-Options > > -O3 > Optimize yet more. -O3 turns on all optimizations specified by -O2 > and also turns on the -finline-functions, -fweb and -frename-registers > options. > > -- > Walter Dnes > Email users are divided into two classes; > 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking > 2) Those who wish they did > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 23:36:36 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:36:36 -0400 Subject: Compiler optimization (was Re:linuxcaffe; distros and desktops) In-Reply-To: <20041030192011.GB18158-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <41842584.5060500@truxtar.com> Noah John Gellner wrote: > I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I > typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 > 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? I am no expert on this, but I researched into compiler optimization some time ago. Your best friend is the GCC manpage "man gcc". Do a search (hit "/") for -O2; there should be a detailed description burried in the manpage. Basically -O2 improves performance at the expense of compilation time. -O3 should slightly increase performance but will make the final code larger, which may or may not hurt performance in the end (load times, RAM/Swap usage, etc.). I personally have never used -O3. Since you have a P4, you can optimize the code (especially graphical/computational programs) by enabling the MMX/SSE/SSE2 math instructions and other CPU-specific stuff. Search the gcc manpage for "Intel 386 and AMD x86-64 Options" and read the descriptions. On my P4 2.4GHz I used the following when compiling the X.Org server: "-O2 -march=pentium4 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse" -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 23:48:39 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:48:39 -0400 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41842857.3060006@truxtar.com> The new X.Org 6.8.1 xserver includes the "composite" extention which supports "True transparency": Taavi Burns wrote: > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:02:12 -0400 (EDT), Robert Brockway > wrote: > >>Hi Taavi. What do you mean by True transparency composited on the client? > > AFAIK all of the currently implemented transparency schemes involve heavy > communication between the X server and the X client: the X client does the > rendering, fetching current screen state from the X server, and then dumps > the composited image back to the X server. I wouldn't want to do that on > the wire. > > When things get to the point where the X client program just says "This is my > alpha channel" and the X server composites everything, then the speed will > be quite acceptable. Using proper compositing like this has other advantages, > too (like the elimination of 'tearing' when dragging one window across another, > because no application ever has to redraw itself because as far as > it's concerned it's never obscured. This is exactly what the composite extention does. Actually the composite extention only provides an RGBA visual (alpha channel). A separate program called the "composite manager" (such as X.Org's "xcompmgr") is responsible for doing the composing. The output of programs is redirected to the composite manager, which can then do transparency, shadows, fading, etc. It is also possible to use the graphics card to accelerate the effects. Unfortunately it's not stable, and has various problems with DRI, openGL, xv, and other X extentions, but it does address the points Taavi mentions above. It's a good start; I have OSX-like shadows and smooth-moving windows right now :). > Nope, the WM can run on the terminal server. I was only speaking of > transparency > being computed on the thin client (X server) vs the > server+lotsofchatteronthewire > (X client). When "xcompmgr" is ran on the same computer as the x-server, all compsing can be done right on the thin-client itself. I've tried it over SSH, and it causes no slowdown since the programs don't even know xcompmgr is running, but I still get shadows under the window and the menus; cool :). -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 256 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sat Oct 30 23:55:14 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:55:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <41842857.3060006-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041026202759.GA1077@node1.opengeometry.net> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <41842857.3060006@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Anton Markov wrote: > The new X.Org 6.8.1 xserver includes the "composite" extention which > supports "True transparency": There seems to be some confusion here. The issue Taavi and I have been talking about is "network transparency" which is the term given to X's ability to feed graphics seemlessly over the network. In effect an app might be local or remote and the user may never know, hence the term transparency. This has nothing to do with the "True transparency" that X.Org 6.8.1 supports which is to do with allowing windows to be see-through. Rob > Taavi Burns wrote: > > On Fri, 29 Oct 2004 00:02:12 -0400 (EDT), Robert Brockway > > wrote: > > > >>Hi Taavi. What do you mean by True transparency composited on the client? > > > > AFAIK all of the currently implemented transparency schemes involve heavy > > communication between the X server and the X client: the X client does the > > rendering, fetching current screen state from the X server, and then dumps > > the composited image back to the X server. I wouldn't want to do that on > > the wire. > > > > When things get to the point where the X client program just says "This is my > > alpha channel" and the X server composites everything, then the speed will > > be quite acceptable. Using proper compositing like this has other advantages, > > too (like the elimination of 'tearing' when dragging one window across another, > > because no application ever has to redraw itself because as far as > > it's concerned it's never obscured. > > This is exactly what the composite extention does. Actually the > composite extention only provides an RGBA visual (alpha channel). A > separate program called the "composite manager" (such as X.Org's > "xcompmgr") is responsible for doing the composing. The output of > programs is redirected to the composite manager, which can then do > transparency, shadows, fading, etc. It is also possible to use the > graphics card to accelerate the effects. > > Unfortunately it's not stable, and has various problems with DRI, > openGL, xv, and other X extentions, but it does address the points Taavi > mentions above. It's a good start; I have OSX-like shadows and > smooth-moving windows right now :). > > > Nope, the WM can run on the terminal server. I was only speaking of > > transparency > > being computed on the thin client (X server) vs the > > server+lotsofchatteronthewire > > (X client). > When "xcompmgr" is ran on the same computer as the x-server, all > compsing can be done right on the thin-client itself. I've tried it over > SSH, and it causes no slowdown since the programs don't even know > xcompmgr is running, but I still get shadows under the window and the > menus; cool :). > > -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 00:02:31 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:02:31 -0400 Subject: Compiler optimization (was Re:linuxcaffe; distros and desktops) In-Reply-To: <41842584.5060500-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> <41842584.5060500@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20041031000231.GE18158@neko.afraid.org> I had been using fairly conservative compile flags but after taking Ubuntu for a spin I got the urge for mad optimization. My current flags are working so far, although it seems something of a miracle to me. I am running: CFLAGS="--param max-unrolled-insns=16 -fsingle-precision-constant -DNO_DEBUG -g0 -funroll-loops -ffast-math -finline-limit=4096 -march=pentium4 -fomit-frame-pointer -pipe -ftracer -O3 -fmerge-all-constants -fprefetch-loop-arrays" CXXFLAGS="-fabi-version=0 -ffunction-sections -DNO_DEBUG -g0 --param max-unrolled-insns=16 -funroll-loops -ffast-math -finline-limit=4096 -march=pentium4 -fomit-frame-pointer -fprefetch-loop-arrays -pipe -fsingle-precision-constant -ftracer -O3 -fmerge-all-constants -fpermissive -fno-enforce-eh-specs" LDFLAGS="-Wl,-O1 -Wl,--enable-new-dtags -Wl,--sort-common -s" It is madness. Maybe it is just me, but the apps at the console seem snappier. I know I should run some proper tests to see if there is any gain, at all, for a near certainty of increased instability. On 19:36 Sat 30 Oct , Anton Markov wrote: > > Noah John Gellner wrote: > >I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I > >typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 > >2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? > > I am no expert on this, but I researched into compiler optimization some > time ago. > > Your best friend is the GCC manpage "man gcc". Do a search (hit "/") for > -O2; there should be a detailed description burried in the manpage. > Basically -O2 improves performance at the expense of compilation time. > -O3 should slightly increase performance but will make the final code > larger, which may or may not hurt performance in the end (load times, > RAM/Swap usage, etc.). I personally have never used -O3. > > Since you have a P4, you can optimize the code (especially > graphical/computational programs) by enabling the MMX/SSE/SSE2 math > instructions and other CPU-specific stuff. Search the gcc manpage for > "Intel 386 and AMD x86-64 Options" and read the descriptions. > > On my P4 2.4GHz I used the following when compiling the X.Org server: > "-O2 -march=pentium4 -mmmx -msse -msse2 -mfpmath=sse" > > -- > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> > > GnuPG Key fingerprint = > 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 > > *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 07:34:46 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 02:34:46 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <41842857.3060006@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 30 Oct 2004 19:55:14 -0400 (EDT), Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sat, 30 Oct 2004, Anton Markov wrote: > > > The new X.Org 6.8.1 xserver includes the "composite" extention which > > supports "True transparency": Yup. But I haven't gotten it to work yet with any acceleration, hence it's beautifully SLOW. Though I've heard of people who have gotten it working. I don't know if the older laptops being discussed would be supported for such acceleration or not, though... > There seems to be some confusion here. The issue Taavi and I have been > talking about is "network transparency" which is the term given to X's > ability to feed graphics seemlessly over the network. In effect an app > might be local or remote and the user may never know, hence the term > transparency. Um...no, in fact I was talking about the eye candy that someone mentioned, and how (to my knowledge) this is currently implemented would not be a good thing to do over a network link due to the bandwidth limitations. On slower machines it's bad enough when they're running on the same box and have shared memory and the like. That and the current effects have some visual defects. But xcompmgr fixes all of that, if it can be made to work on the machines in question. Hey, if you can get it working, that'd be a great advertising point... ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 12:32:15 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:32:15 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] Message-ID: I've been having something odd happening over the past few weeks -- getting worse -- and wonder if anyone here might have a comment because of being local or because of facilities experience. Sometimes various electrical things here turn off for anywhere from an estimated 1/4 second to 5 seconds. At the same time, other items on the same circuit keep running fine. When it starts happening, it will continue for maybe ten minutes with two-or-three of these flickers per minute, happening two-or-three times per day. (When it started it was more like a couple of "blinks" and then again the next day.) The things that are affected include the TV, furnace, refrigerator, ceiling lights.... So far, the computers haven't had a problem, but it's nerve-wracking to be working when the lights suddenly go out! Anybody have experience that would point to a cause for this kind of thing? ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 12:54:40 2004 From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 07:54:40 -0500 Subject: Power Fluctuation Message-ID: <4184E090.2000707@sympatico.ca> ................. > Sometimes various electrical things here turn off for anywhere from an > estimated 1/4 second to 5 seconds. At the same time, other items on > the same circuit keep running fine. ......... Are your neighbours experiencing the same thing? Also, are you in a house or an apartment / condo? John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 13:35:31 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:35:31 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20041031133531.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Oct 31, 2004 at 07:32:15AM -0500, phil wrote: > I've been having something odd happening over the past few weeks -- > getting worse -- and wonder if anyone here might have a comment because > of being local or because of facilities experience. > > Sometimes various electrical things here turn off for anywhere from an > estimated 1/4 second to 5 seconds. At the same time, other items on > the same circuit keep running fine. When it starts happening, it will > continue for maybe ten minutes with two-or-three of these flickers per > minute, happening two-or-three times per day. (When it started it was > more like a couple of "blinks" and then again the next day.) > > The things that are affected include the TV, furnace, refrigerator, > ceiling lights.... So far, the computers haven't had a problem, but > it's nerve-wracking to be working when the lights suddenly go out! > > Anybody have experience that would point to a cause for this kind of > thing? I have seen a few little blibs in power lately (enough that the UPS blibbed a message about it for a second). I guess it may just be a voltage drop caused by a brief overload (someone turning on something very big?) or something like that. Some things of course don't care as much about the exact voltage and wouldn't really notice a small drop in power, while other things will. Of course if the source of the problem is close to you in your neighbourhood, then somethings loosing power for a moment while other thigns don't could mean that one of the 2 phases is being overloaded by something in the area and lowering it's voltage, while the other phase is unaffected. That way anyting connected to one side of your electrical panel will be ok while stuff connected to the other side would see the power drop. Just speculation on my part, I have no idea what the real cause is of course. Maybe it's something in your house drawing too much power from one part of the circuit. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 13:39:35 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 08:39:35 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <20041030192011.GB18158-tZ+l0E+ypEy2M1zADx6QfQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> Message-ID: <20041031133935.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 03:20:11PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I > typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 > 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? -O3 is documented as turning on some optimizations that _will_ break certain code. Most code will work fine, some code will not work correctly, or perhaps even at all. Also for most code, don't expect a measureable difference. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 15:14:00 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:14:00 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <41850138.1020300@rogers.com> phil wrote: > I've been having something odd happening over the past few weeks -- > getting worse -- and wonder if anyone here might have a comment because > of being local or because of facilities experience. > > Sometimes various electrical things here turn off for anywhere from an > estimated 1/4 second to 5 seconds. At the same time, other items on the > same circuit keep running fine. When it starts happening, it will > continue for maybe ten minutes with two-or-three of these flickers per > minute, happening two-or-three times per day. (When it started it was > more like a couple of "blinks" and then again the next day.) > > The things that are affected include the TV, furnace, refrigerator, > ceiling lights.... So far, the computers haven't had a problem, but > it's nerve-wracking to be working when the lights suddenly go out! > > Anybody have experience that would point to a cause for this kind of thing? You have to start looking at what's common and what isn't. For example, if you entire house was hit, a good bet would be outside problems. However, since that doesn't seem to be the case, the problem is likely something along the lines of a defective breaker, house wiring or perhaps a power bar or extension cord. A computer with a decent power supply can ride out a brief interuption. to try and eliminate possible causes. Do a thorough examination of what's failing or not. Please note, that this could be a dangerous problem, partitculary if your home has aluminum wiring. Then again, with Hallow'een coming up, it might be ghosts. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 15:17:57 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:17:57 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: <20041031133531.GL8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041031133531.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <41850225.7000302@rogers.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > I have seen a few little blibs in power lately (enough that the UPS > blibbed a message about it for a second). I had 4 on Friday night. One of them took out my answering machine power supply. Fortunately, I had a spare, which is now plugged into my UPS. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 14:22:55 2004 From: streetsmart2-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adam Raymond) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:22:55 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: <41850225.7000302-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20041031133531.GL8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <41850225.7000302@rogers.com> Message-ID: <34e8a43d04103106223dab04c5@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, 31 Oct 2004 10:17:57 -0500, James Knott wrote: > I had 4 on Friday night. One of them took out my answering machine > power supply. Fortunately, I had a spare, which is now plugged into my UPS. Strangely enough, my whole school has been doing weird things like that. At times, the lights in the classroom just shut off. The vending machines, microwaves are all down... If first happened when we were doing a lab experiment in chem, burning hydrated copper(II) sulfate when the lights were off. go figure. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From vertaxis-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 14:33:32 2004 From: vertaxis-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (vertaxis) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 09:33:32 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.0.20041031092956.02ecec10@pop.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> At 07:32 AM 2004/10/31, phil wrote: >I've been having something odd happening over the past few weeks -- >getting worse -- and wonder if anyone here might have a comment because of >being local or because of facilities experience. > >Sometimes various electrical things here turn off for anywhere from an >estimated 1/4 second to 5 seconds. At the same time, other items on the >same circuit keep running fine. When it starts happening, it will >continue for maybe ten minutes with two-or-three of these flickers per >minute, happening two-or-three times per day. (When it started it was >more like a couple of "blinks" and then again the next day.) > >The things that are affected include the TV, furnace, refrigerator, >ceiling lights.... So far, the computers haven't had a problem, but it's >nerve-wracking to be working when the lights suddenly go out! > >Anybody have experience that would point to a cause for this kind of thing? Since the big blackout last year, I've had 4 or 5 significant brownouts. My advice: UPS, UPS, and more UPSes. It's the only way to protect your computer hardware from the sags and spikes. Other electronic equipment will be vulnerable as well. so at a minimum, that expensive stereo or TV should be on a good filtering powerbar. If no-one else in the neighbourhood is having these problems with power, then start looking for a bad fuse or breaker in your home. Check to see if your power problems are isolated to a single circuit. V -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 16:16:37 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:16:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <20041031133935.GM8632-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> <20041031133935.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1215.209.161.240.229.1099239397.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> I guess the best optimization is to start with good source code and consistent programming practices! Remember decision tables? Probably not, they don't teach those things anymore... But many years ago when memory was outrageously expensive and processor speeds were a fraction of what we get today, every bit (literally) of optimization had its value in a program. You can find interesting optimization articles on the AMD web site, go to the "Technical Documentation" section and select a processor, such as the Athlon. The general optimization examples can apply to any x86 processor. Fran?ois Ouellette > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 03:20:11PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: >> I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I >> typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 >> 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? > > -O3 is documented as turning on some optimizations that _will_ break > certain code. Most code will work fine, some code will not work > correctly, or perhaps even at all. Also for most code, don't expect a > measureable difference. > > Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 16:19:19 2004 From: phillip-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg at public.gmane.org (phil) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:19:19 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: <41850138.1020300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41850138.1020300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <9E4F38AE-2B58-11D9-91B1-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> On Oct 31, 2004, at 10:14 AM, James Knott wrote: > For example, if you entire house was hit, a good bet would be outside > problems. However, since that doesn't seem to be the case, the problem > is likely something along the lines of a defective breaker, house > wiring or perhaps a power bar or extension cord. It's definitely happening all over the house on different circuits, but not to everything attached to any given circuit. Hard to be sure, but it's not obviously related to load inside the house since it seems equally likely whether I've got "everything" turned on or just a bare minimum. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 16:30:16 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:30:16 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: <9E4F38AE-2B58-11D9-91B1-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <41850138.1020300@rogers.com> <9E4F38AE-2B58-11D9-91B1-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <41851318.2010605@rogers.com> phil wrote: > On Oct 31, 2004, at 10:14 AM, James Knott wrote: > >> For example, if you entire house was hit, a good bet would be outside >> problems. However, since that doesn't seem to be the case, the problem >> is likely something along the lines of a defective breaker, house >> wiring or perhaps a power bar or extension cord. > > > It's definitely happening all over the house on different circuits, but > not to everything attached to any given circuit. Hard to be sure, but > it's not obviously related to load inside the house since it seems > equally likely whether I've got "everything" turned on or just a bare > minimum. What do you mean by "circuit"? Everything on one breaker? On one outlet? Both halves of an outlet? Are there any power bars in use? It could be one side of the standard split 240V feed. If this is the cause, it would affect everything on one side of the breaker panel, but not the other. Please try and isolate *EXACTLY* how the various devices are connected, otherwise we're only guessing. If the problem is beyond your abilities to identify, please call an electrician. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 16:33:04 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:33:04 -0500 Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: <1215.209.161.240.229.1099239397.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <20041030191303.GA7262@m450> <20041030192011.GB18158@neko.afraid.org> <20041031133935.GM8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1215.209.161.240.229.1099239397.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20041031163304.GG18158@neko.afraid.org> I do think that code has gotten less efficient. That said, I was happy to wake up this morning and test out my compiled from scratch system out. Very snappy. Very nice. KDE is the only thing left to compile. It seems to be more sensitive to the optimizations that I have wrought. In the end I expect to triumph though. On 11:16 Sun 31 Oct , Francois Ouellette wrote: > I guess the best optimization is to start with good source code and > consistent programming practices! Remember decision tables? Probably not, > they don't teach those things anymore... But many years ago when memory > was outrageously expensive and processor speeds were a fraction of what we > get today, every bit (literally) of optimization had its value in a > program. > > You can find interesting optimization articles on the AMD web site, go to > the "Technical Documentation" section and select a processor, such as the > Athlon. The general optimization examples can apply to any x86 processor. > > Fran?ois Ouellette > > > > On Sat, Oct 30, 2004 at 03:20:11PM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > >> I have been wondering about the differences between -O2 and -O3. I > >> typically use -O2, but I am starting to experiment about -O3. For a P4 > >> 2.4 w/ 684M of RAM, should -O3 be faster? > > > > -O3 is documented as turning on some optimizations that _will_ break > > certain code. Most code will work fine, some code will not work > > correctly, or perhaps even at all. Also for most code, don't expect a > > measureable difference. > > > > Lennart Sorensen > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 16:33:19 2004 From: fouellet-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Francois Ouellette) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:33:19 -0500 (EST) Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: <9E4F38AE-2B58-11D9-91B1-00050249A5C8-l+pbsqP8NtUm29vl6s1fFg@public.gmane.org> References: <41850138.1020300@rogers.com> <9E4F38AE-2B58-11D9-91B1-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> Message-ID: <1252.209.161.240.229.1099240399.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Might be something motorized that starts and stops periodically? Such as a refrigerator with a defective compressor, or a furnace, that requires lots of power to start? That would create this kind of effect. Fran?ois Ouellette > On Oct 31, 2004, at 10:14 AM, James Knott wrote: > >> For example, if you entire house was hit, a good bet would be outside >> problems. However, since that doesn't seem to be the case, the problem >> is likely something along the lines of a defective breaker, house >> wiring or perhaps a power bar or extension cord. > > It's definitely happening all over the house on different circuits, but > not to everything attached to any given circuit. Hard to be sure, but > it's not obviously related to load inside the house since it seems > equally likely whether I've got "everything" turned on or just a bare > minimum. > > ........................ > Phillip Mills > Multi-platform software development > (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 16:40:23 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:40:23 -0500 Subject: Power [Mostly OT] In-Reply-To: <1252.209.161.240.229.1099240399.squirrel-2RFepEojUI0ct5LIneo90w@public.gmane.org> References: <41850138.1020300@rogers.com> <9E4F38AE-2B58-11D9-91B1-00050249A5C8@millsgarthson.ca> <1252.209.161.240.229.1099240399.squirrel@webmail.look.ca> Message-ID: <41851577.7090201@rogers.com> Francois Ouellette wrote: > Might be something motorized that starts and stops periodically? Such as a > refrigerator with a defective compressor, or a furnace, that requires lots > of power to start? That would create this kind of effect. If that's the cause, the house wiring needs some work. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 18:35:53 2004 From: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 13:35:53 -0500 (EST) Subject: linuxcaffe; distros and desktops In-Reply-To: References: <1098799273.2766.8.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <1098830415.2791.160.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20041027041420.GA894@node1.opengeometry.net> <20041028040402.GB8632@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1098944828.2816.22.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <41842857.3060006@truxtar.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 31 Oct 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > > There seems to be some confusion here. The issue Taavi and I have been > > talking about is "network transparency" which is the term given to X's > > ability to feed graphics seemlessly over the network. In effect an app > > might be local or remote and the user may never know, hence the term > > transparency. > > Um...no, in fact I was talking about the eye candy that someone mentioned, Ah sorry. There was confusion but it was mine. Now I understand your reference to True Transparency in an earlier post. > and how (to my knowledge) this is currently implemented would not be > a good thing to do over a network link due to the bandwidth limitations. I'll have to test this to see how it goes. I ran gltron on a Linux based thinclient last night. It flew. > Hey, if you can get it working, that'd be a great advertising point... ;) I'll see how I go ;) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions Ltd. Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun Oct 31 23:42:02 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:42:02 -0500 Subject: Interest in a Via C3 Eden? Message-ID: <20041031234202.GB23032@neko.afraid.org> I have a Via C3 Eden - 533Mhz proc that I would be willing to part with for $40. I had been using it for my server, but since I am using Gentoo, I found compiling took too long. There are two ide connectors, but I suspect one doesn't work. I have never successfully used it. I will include at FastTrak 100 which would fit it the single PCI slot. This card used to work, but it may not. The last time I tried I couldn't get it to recognize the drives. I hope that this posting is ok. I figured that with the consistent interest in these mobos there should be no problem. I live downtown if anyone is interested. -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml