From rico.juan-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 01:58:33 2004 From: rico.juan-D1t3LT1mScs at public.gmane.org (Juan Rico) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:58:33 -0400 Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: <200404301542.41791.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20040430190318.96427.qmail@web50601.mail.yahoo.com> <200404301542.41791.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040501015833.GA94141@pppoe.ca> > On Friday 30 April 2004 15:03, hui xu wrote: > > > Does anybody know where I can apply for a high speed internet with static > > IP address? I want to build a DNS server with redhat linux 8.0. I am pretty > > new in this area. > www.1staccess.ca is another plausible option. $33 monthly for a 3 Mb/s is not bad.... that's my current ISP and I feel satisfied with their service. -- Juan Rico Linux User #333551 ++++ i'm living so far beyond my income that we may almost be said to be living apart. -- e. e. cummings -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 02:01:59 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:01:59 -0400 Subject: Simple (I hope) perl question Message-ID: <40930517.1080504@alteeve.com> Hi all, If I have a link that calls a cgi script with values after a '?', how do I read in those values? For example, if I click the link: http://localhost/cgi-bin/script.cgi?variable-name=1 How could I get 'script.cgi' to read the 'variable-name=1'? Thanks all! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 02:03:55 2004 From: lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org (Sergio Salvi) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:03:55 -0400 Subject: Simple (I hope) perl question In-Reply-To: <40930517.1080504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40930517.1080504@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4093058B.7010702@direitonet.com.br> use CGI; my $cgi = new CGI; my $value = $cgi->param("variable-name"); Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > If I have a link that calls a cgi script with values after a '?', how > do I read in those values? For example, if I click the link: > > http://localhost/cgi-bin/script.cgi?variable-name=1 > > How could I get 'script.cgi' to read the 'variable-name=1'? > > Thanks all! > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 02:14:40 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:14:40 -0400 Subject: Simple (I hope) perl question In-Reply-To: <4093058B.7010702-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1@public.gmane.org> References: <40930517.1080504@alteeve.com> <4093058B.7010702@direitonet.com.br> Message-ID: <40930810.9080806@alteeve.com> Gya!! I could kiss you!! Do you know how long I've been trying to figure that out tonight? For some reason no search I could think of on Google (web and groups) would help!! Thanks you very much!! Madison (who can finally get back to work...) Sergio Salvi wrote: > use CGI; > my $cgi = new CGI; > my $value = $cgi->param("variable-name"); > > Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> If I have a link that calls a cgi script with values after a '?', >> how do I read in those values? For example, if I click the link: >> >> http://localhost/cgi-bin/script.cgi?variable-name=1 >> >> How could I get 'script.cgi' to read the 'variable-name=1'? >> >> Thanks all! >> >> Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 02:58:32 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 22:58:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Simple (I hope) perl question In-Reply-To: <40930517.1080504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40930517.1080504@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi Madison, When in doubt about things Perl-ish, please feel free to drop in on Perl Monks (perlmonks.org) and browse the extensive (and quirky) collection of articles (and responses). If it suits you, sign up to be a member, donations are welcome. I've learned a fair bit myself in something over two years there. Alex (talexb on perlmonks.org) On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > If I have a link that calls a cgi script with values after a '?', how > do I read in those values? For example, if I click the link: > > http://localhost/cgi-bin/script.cgi?variable-name=1 > > How could I get 'script.cgi' to read the 'variable-name=1'? > > Thanks all! > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 03:06:42 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:06:42 -0400 Subject: Simple (I hope) perl question In-Reply-To: <40930810.9080806-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40930517.1080504@alteeve.com> <4093058B.7010702@direitonet.com.br> <40930810.9080806@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <40931442.5010200@rogers.com> Hi Madison .... set aside an hour or two and type 'perldoc CGI' Tom Legrady Madison Kelly wrote: > Gya!! > > I could kiss you!! Do you know how long I've been trying to figure > that out tonight? For some reason no search I could think of on Google > (web and groups) would help!! > > Thanks you very much!! > > Madison (who can finally get back to work...) > > Sergio Salvi wrote: > >> use CGI; >> my $cgi = new CGI; >> my $value = $cgi->param("variable-name"); >> >> Madison Kelly wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> If I have a link that calls a cgi script with values after a '?', >>> how do I read in those values? For example, if I click the link: >>> >>> http://localhost/cgi-bin/script.cgi?variable-name=1 >>> >>> How could I get 'script.cgi' to read the 'variable-name=1'? >>> >>> Thanks all! >>> >>> Madison >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 03:33:26 2004 From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:33:26 -0400 Subject: dan takes a poll: server names In-Reply-To: <200404291733.32237.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200404291733.32237.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <200404302333.26709.glayng@sympatico.ca> On April 29, 2004 17:33, daniel wrote: > i like to pick people's brains on this issue. your boxes @home and @work. > what names have you given them? do they conform to a theme at all? just a > survey if you're interested. here's my stuff: > > fightclub (router) > moulinrouge (desktop) > empirerecords (file/webserver) > pirates (windows) Desktop: Omoekane ("Big Money"). I think your windows machine is very well named. ^_^ -- There are 10 types of people in the world, those who know binary and those who don't -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 03:48:32 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 23:48:32 -0400 Subject: Simple (I hope) perl question In-Reply-To: References: <40930517.1080504@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <40931E10.1060707@alteeve.com> Thanks Tom and Alex! I've been kind of thrown into perl (and programming at all, for that matter) head first so I am doing the best RTFM'ing I can in the time I have to work. When this is over though I will certainly hit Perlmonks and the perl CGI man page. In the mean time, I appreciate all your patience! Madison talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Hi Madison, > > When in doubt about things Perl-ish, please feel free to drop in on Perl > Monks (perlmonks.org) and browse the extensive (and quirky) collection of > articles (and responses). > > If it suits you, sign up to be a member, donations are welcome. I've > learned a fair bit myself in something over two years there. > > Alex > (talexb on perlmonks.org) > > On Fri, 30 Apr 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > > >>Hi all, >> >> If I have a link that calls a cgi script with values after a '?', how >>do I read in those values? For example, if I click the link: >> >>http://localhost/cgi-bin/script.cgi?variable-name=1 >> >>How could I get 'script.cgi' to read the 'variable-name=1'? >> >> Thanks all! >> >>Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 12:39:16 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 08:39:16 -0400 Subject: memory leaks in perl In-Reply-To: <200404302151.26350.tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <409285CA.3050000@rogers.com> <20040430192827.GA27831@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040430193141.8DBB817C516@smtp.istop.com> <200404302151.26350.tlug@deeptown.org> Message-ID: <40939A74.4010807@sympatico.ca> Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > > If random, probably you are not cleaning unused hash entries, It's probably best not to second-guess Perl's memory management. Freeing up hash entries would only return memory to the process's heap, not free it for other programs to use. > undef $hash{$key} That wouldn't work. That's the same as saying $hash{key} = undef -- it's setting the value to undef, not freeing up the key. I'd recommend the OP look at: * searching for 'leak' on perlmonks.org (you *do* do perlmonks, yes?) * install Devel::Leak, which spits out stuff to stderr whenever a leak happens. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 14:52:30 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:52:30 -0400 Subject: dan takes a poll: server names In-Reply-To: <200404302333.26709.glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200404291733.32237.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <200404302333.26709.glayng@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040501145230.GD4044@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 11:33:26PM -0400, Gary Layng wrote: > On April 29, 2004 17:33, daniel wrote: > > i like to pick people's brains on this issue. your boxes @home and @work. > > what names have you given them? do they conform to a theme at all? just a > > survey if you're interested. here's my stuff: > > > > fightclub (router) > > moulinrouge (desktop) > > empirerecords (file/webserver) > > pirates (windows) > > Desktop: Omoekane ("Big Money"). > > I think your windows machine is very well named. ^_^ I had a machine that was dual-boot. Booted with Linux, it was called "wolf" (the picture on the cover of my book), but boot with w98 it was called "mouse" (MouSe). The Macintosh is called "mac" (short for Macdonald, of course). The new Linux box is called lupus (Latin for wolf). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 14:59:28 2004 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 10:59:28 -0400 Subject: memory leaks in perl In-Reply-To: <40939A74.4010807-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <409285CA.3050000@rogers.com> <20040430192827.GA27831@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040430193141.8DBB817C516@smtp.istop.com> <200404302151.26350.tlug@deeptown.org> <40939A74.4010807@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040501145927.GD14110@biff.bort.ca> On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 08:39:16AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > > undef $hash{$key} > > That wouldn't work. That's the same as saying $hash{key} = undef -- it's That's not true. undef($scalar) frees the memory used by $scalar. $scalar = undef will leave $scalar using lots of memory if it was previously using lots of memory. > setting the value to undef, not freeing up the key. Obviously it doesn't free the key, but it does free the value. But I'm pretty sure delete($hash{$key}) will free the value too. -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 18:22:47 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 14:22:47 -0400 Subject: memory leaks in perl In-Reply-To: <20040501145927.GD14110-Aco4KUUxZ1MCzWx7n4ubxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409285CA.3050000@rogers.com> <20040430192827.GA27831@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040430193141.8DBB817C516@smtp.istop.com> <200404302151.26350.tlug@deeptown.org> <40939A74.4010807@sympatico.ca> <20040501145927.GD14110@biff.bort.ca> Message-ID: <4093EAF7.1060201@rogers.com> Rick Delaney wrote: >On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 08:39:16AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > >>> undef $hash{$key} >>> >>> >>That wouldn't work. That's the same as saying $hash{key} = undef -- it's >> >> > >That's not true. undef($scalar) frees the memory used by $scalar. >$scalar = undef will leave $scalar using lots of memory if it was >previously using lots of memory. > > > >>setting the value to undef, not freeing up the key. >> >> > >Obviously it doesn't free the key, but it does free the value. But I'm >pretty sure delete($hash{$key}) will free the value too. > > Try 'perldoc -f undef' .... undef EXPR undef Undefines the value of EXPR, which must be an lvalue. Use only on a scalar value, an array (using "@"), a hash (using "%"), a subroutine (using "&"), or a typeglob (using <*>). (Saying "undef $hash{$key}" will probably not do what you expect on most predefined variables or DBM list values, so don?t do that; see delete.) etc., etc. etc. Tom Legrady -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Sat May 1 18:39:45 2004 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 14:39:45 -0400 Subject: memory leaks in perl In-Reply-To: <4093EAF7.1060201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <409285CA.3050000@rogers.com> <20040430192827.GA27831@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040430193141.8DBB817C516@smtp.istop.com> <200404302151.26350.tlug@deeptown.org> <40939A74.4010807@sympatico.ca> <20040501145927.GD14110@biff.bort.ca> <4093EAF7.1060201@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040501183945.GI14110@biff.bort.ca> On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 02:22:47PM -0400, Tom Legrady wrote: > Rick Delaney wrote: > > >Obviously it doesn't free the key, but it does free the value. But I'm > >pretty sure delete($hash{$key}) will free the value too. > > > > > > Try 'perldoc -f undef' .... > > undef EXPR > undef Undefines the value of EXPR, which must be an lvalue. Use only > on a scalar value, an array (using "@"), a hash (using "%"), a > subroutine (using "&"), or a typeglob (using <*>). (Saying > "undef $hash{$key}" will probably not do what you expect on > most predefined variables or DBM list values, so don?t do that; > see delete.) > > etc., etc. etc. Thanks for the rtfm, but is that supposed to confirm or refute what I said? It appears to do neither. Was this thread originally about DBM hashes? I missed the beginning. -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 01:29:47 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 18:29:47 -0700 (PDT) Subject: running bittorrent Message-ID: <20040502012947.43835.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> I installed bittorrent without issue and copied the following from my terminal ====================================================================== [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org Download]# rpm -Uvh bittorrent-3.3-0.fdr.2.fc1.noarch.rpm Preparing... ########################################### [100%] package bittorrent-3.3-0.fdr.2.fc1 is already installed [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org Download]# bittorrent bash: bittorrent: command not found [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org Download]# su -l [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org root]# bittorrent -bash: bittorrent: command not found [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org root]# ======================================================================= I did a file search from / for bittorrent using the gui off the Red Hat start menu but found nothing. What do I have to do to run bittorrent? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 01:34:56 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:34:56 -0400 Subject: running bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20040502012947.43835.qmail-dz3chGMHpKKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502012947.43835.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: > Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 21:29:47 -0400 > From: Mel Seder > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: TLUG > Subject: [TLUG]: running bittorrent > > I installed bittorrent without issue and copied the following from my terminal > > ====================================================================== > [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org Download]# rpm -Uvh bittorrent-3.3-0.fdr.2.fc1.noarch.rpm > Preparing... ########################################### [100%] > package bittorrent-3.3-0.fdr.2.fc1 is already installed > [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org Download]# bittorrent > bash: bittorrent: command not found > [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org Download[]# su -l > [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org root]# bittorrent > -bash: bittorrent: command not found > [root-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org root]# > ======================================================================= > > I did a file search from / for bittorrent using the gui off the Red Hat start > menu but found nothing. What do I have to do to run bittorrent? > First of all, NEVER run user programs as root. Give yourself a user account and run it as a user. As for your question, you can get a list of the files installed by an RPM by using the query -l switch. eg: rpm -ql bittorrent Look for what it installs in /usr/bin/ If you're looking for the ncurses client version, you'll likely want to run: btdownloadcurses.py BitTorrent is written in Python, hence the .py ending. -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 01:58:27 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 21:58:27 -0400 Subject: memory leaks in perl In-Reply-To: <20040501145927.GD14110-Aco4KUUxZ1MCzWx7n4ubxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409285CA.3050000@rogers.com> <20040430192827.GA27831@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040430193141.8DBB817C516@smtp.istop.com> <200404302151.26350.tlug@deeptown.org> <40939A74.4010807@sympatico.ca> <20040501145927.GD14110@biff.bort.ca> Message-ID: <409455C3.3060507@sympatico.ca> Rick Delaney wrote: > > undef($scalar) frees the memory used by $scalar. Yes, but UTFM ;-) > $scalar = undef will leave $scalar using lots of memory if it was > previously using lots of memory. True, but that memory won't be made available to the system, only to the program's heap. Try this with top running in another window: $ perl -wle '$|=1; $a=undef; print "I am small"; sleep 10; $a = "foo" x 10000000; print "I am large"; sleep 10; $a=undef; print "I am small again"; sleep 10;' On my machine, my free memory drops by about 58MB when it prints "I am large", and doesn't return that until the interpreter exits. I seldom, if ever, know when I'm finished with individual hash key, and I don't think I've ever deleted a hash entry to save memory. Perl's memory manglement is best left to its own devices, unless you really know that you really know what you're doing. But hey, I'm just a Fortran guy. Stewart -- $,="\n";foreach(split('',"\3\3\3c>\0>c\177cc\0~c~``\0cc\177cc")) {$a++;$_=unpack('B8',$_);tr,01,\40#,;$b[$a%6].=$_};print @b,"\n" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 03:34:30 2004 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Sat, 1 May 2004 23:34:30 -0400 Subject: memory leaks in perl In-Reply-To: <409455C3.3060507-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <409285CA.3050000@rogers.com> <20040430192827.GA27831@lupus.perlwolf.com> <20040430193141.8DBB817C516@smtp.istop.com> <200404302151.26350.tlug@deeptown.org> <40939A74.4010807@sympatico.ca> <20040501145927.GD14110@biff.bort.ca> <409455C3.3060507@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040502033430.GJ14110@biff.bort.ca> On Sat, May 01, 2004 at 09:58:27PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Rick Delaney wrote: > > > >undef($scalar) frees the memory used by $scalar. > > Yes, but UTFM ;-) Unread? IDKWTHTSTM. :-b > >$scalar = undef will leave $scalar using lots of memory if it was > >previously using lots of memory. > > True, but that memory won't be made available to the system, only to the > program's heap. Try this with top running in another window: > > $ perl -wle '$|=1; $a=undef; print "I am small"; sleep 10; $a = "foo" x > 10000000; print "I am large"; sleep 10; $a=undef; print "I am small > again"; sleep 10;' > > On my machine, my free memory drops by about 58MB when it prints "I am > large", and doesn't return that until the interpreter exits. Of course, because you are still doing $a = undef; instead of undef $a; so you are not even returning memory to the heap. Try it again, but add print "undef $a; Now I am truly small";<>"; to the end. On many systems this may still make no difference to the free system memory, but this is Linux so you should get a fair chunk of the memory back. Cool, eh? > I don't think I've ever deleted a hash entry to save memory. Perl's Me neither. > memory manglement is best left to its own devices, unless you really > know that you really know what you're doing. Agreed. -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 07:38:57 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 00:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: how do I convert a .torrent file to a .iso file Message-ID: <20040502073857.80909.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> I went to fedora.rehat.com to get a CORE test file file. The file I downloaded had the description; Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 binary iso images for i386 The file has a .torrent extension. How to I make it a .iso extension so I can try burning it to a DVD burner? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 07:46:42 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 00:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: stopping bittorrent Message-ID: <20040502074642.81466.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Once my download is done can I terminate my program even though other bittorrent users may be downloading from me? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 13:31:30 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 06:31:30 -0700 (PDT) Subject: previous post about converting .torrent to .iso Message-ID: <20040502133130.48388.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> The URL I was downloading was; [mel-lwfWIikfpTg at public.gmane.org FC2-test3-binary-i386]$ btdownloadcurses.py --url http://torrent.dulug.duke.edu/FC2-test3-binary-i386.torrent That produced a directory in ~ automatically named "FC2-test3-binary-i386" containing the four .iso files and the MD5SUM. I ran md5sum --check MD5SUM and all was OK bittorrent rocks! ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 14:38:02 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 10:38:02 -0400 Subject: stopping bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20040502074642.81466.qmail-JWzsWOvp9qOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502074642.81466.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040502103802.4c9ed45a.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sun, 2 May 2004 00:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Mel Seder disseminated the following: > Once my download is done can I terminate my program even though other > bittorrent users may be downloading from me? > > > > ===== > The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) Hmmm, question and sig quote seem to out of sync, no? ;-) -- JoeHill Registered Linux user #282046 Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "This isn't America; the government did not invent intelligence material nor exaggerate the description of the threat to justify their attack." -- Israeli newspaper Haaretz, regarding the killing of Sheik Ahmed Yassin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 15:19:01 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 11:19:01 -0400 Subject: stopping bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20040502074642.81466.qmail-JWzsWOvp9qOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502074642.81466.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40951165.8020505@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Mel Seder wrote: > Once my download is done can I terminate my program even though other > bittorrent users may be downloading from me? Of course you can, but it would be very nice if you didn't and let other people download from you for as long as you can. Once you download the whole file, you become a "seeder". If everyone logs off right away after finishing the download, then there would be no seeders, and the torrent you stop. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAlRFqRreNkzrRRLQRAj8PAJ9BzRAYXrdH8k4kziQR8bm5QLPmuACfRqOT o29eF426pPPHMknONOpmxpU= =qhRd -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 15:48:43 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 08:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: stopping bittorrent In-Reply-To: <40951165.8020505-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40951165.8020505@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20040502154843.35898.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Anton. Maybe my question and your reply will help others. --- Anton Markov wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Mel Seder wrote: > > Once my download is done can I terminate my program even though other > > bittorrent users may be downloading from me? > > Of course you can, but it would be very nice if you didn't and let other > people download from you for as long as you can. Once you download the > whole file, you become a "seeder". If everyone logs off right away after > finishing the download, then there would be no seeders, and the torrent > you stop. > > - -- > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> > > GnuPG Key fingerprint = > 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 > > *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFAlRFqRreNkzrRRLQRAj8PAJ9BzRAYXrdH8k4kziQR8bm5QLPmuACfRqOT > o29eF426pPPHMknONOpmxpU= > =qhRd > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 16:17:28 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:17:28 -0400 Subject: CD-RW can't see media Message-ID: <20040502161728.GA31795@lupus.perlwolf.com> I'm running SuSE 9.0, and just tried to burn a CD. K3b keeps telling me to insert a blank CD, even after there is one in the drive. I detects the CD device type (LG CD-RW CED-8080B), right clicking on the device give a menu that can successfully eject the CD as well as an entry "Disk Info" that always says no disk in drive, even when I put in a non-blank CD (both ISO or music). The fact that the eject button works is odd - I was initially remembering that there was a problem with having to treat the CD-RW as a SCSI device, but obviously the right device has been found for eject to work. The DVD drive has no problem detecting the contents of the DVD inserted into it (the SuSE installation DVD is still in there and K3b can browse through it folders easily). -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 16:09:26 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 12:09:26 -0400 Subject: previous post about converting .torrent to .iso In-Reply-To: <20040502133130.48388.qmail-3EMOyN1Vb5KA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502133130.48388.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40951D36.7070006@sympatico.ca> Mel Seder wrote: > > bittorrent rocks! As long as there's no-one else trying to share your internet connection. The standard Bitconjurer bandwidth throttling options aren't very intuitive. Oh, and look forward to redirections to a "Bram Cohen is a starving artist" page. He most certainly isn't any more, and free software with a nag clause is annoying. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 16:24:55 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:24:55 -0400 Subject: Running a command via SSH Message-ID: <000201c43062$146c32e0$6401a8c0@main> Howdy all, I often SSH into a remote server and run commands. Is there something I can do to keep those commands running after I log out or close the SSH window? Thanks, Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 16:23:41 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:23:41 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror Message-ID: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Hi, I'm running Konqueror 3.1.4 on KDE 3.1.3 and I've run into a problem or bug. I wrote up a webpage and included the following Javascript: at three points in the page. The purpose of it is to construct the blah tags to avoid spam bots from harvesting my email from the web page. Keep in mind, I'm new to this so I wouldn't expect this to be a silver bullet for spam or anything. Anyway, I got the following error messages from Konqueror: khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error at line 8 khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error at line 9 khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error at line 9 When I view the page, the script hasn't executed and there are "blank spots" where there should be email links. However, when I open the page in Opera 7.11, I have no problem getting the proper page with email links intact. Am I dealing with a bug in Konqueror or is there something screwy with my script? Does anyone know if there is a work-around for this? Regards, Brad Fonseca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 16:31:55 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:31:55 -0400 Subject: Running a command via SSH In-Reply-To: <000201c43062$146c32e0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <000201c43062$146c32e0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: > Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:24:55 -0400 > From: Sidney Shapiro > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Running a command via SSH > > Howdy all, > > I often SSH into a remote server and run commands. Is there something I > can do to keep those commands running after I log out or close the SSH > window? I'm sure there are lots of ways of doing this, but one that I am fond of is using 'screen'. 'screen' is a text-mode window manager. One of the nice features is to be able to 'detatch'. Once you detatch, the screen session continues to run, and you can log off. Later, you can log back in, and re-attach to it as if you had never left. Since screen can manage multiple terminal sessions within itself, you only need to run screen once and leave it running. As a quickie... once you run screen, you can detatch using "C-A d" you can then re-attach to it using "screen -r" -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 16:45:24 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:45:24 -0400 Subject: Running a command via SSH Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51012D04@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Try nohup (put command here) & Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jing Su Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 12:32 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Running a command via SSH > Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:24:55 -0400 > From: Sidney Shapiro > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Running a command via SSH > > Howdy all, > > I often SSH into a remote server and run commands. Is there something I > can do to keep those commands running after I log out or close the SSH > window? I'm sure there are lots of ways of doing this, but one that I am fond of is using 'screen'. 'screen' is a text-mode window manager. One of the nice features is to be able to 'detatch'. Once you detatch, the screen session continues to run, and you can log off. Later, you can log back in, and re-attach to it as if you had never left. Since screen can manage multiple terminal sessions within itself, you only need to run screen once and leave it running. As a quickie... once you run screen, you can detatch using "C-A d" you can then re-attach to it using "screen -r" -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 16:54:30 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 12:54:30 -0400 Subject: Running a command via SSH In-Reply-To: <000201c43062$146c32e0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <000201c43062$146c32e0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <200405021254.30916.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 02 May 2004 12:24, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > I often SSH into a remote server and run commands. Is there something I > can do to keep those commands running after I log out or close the SSH > window? I suspect that you are experiencing hangs on exit from ssh. stdin, stderr and stdout can be problematic so redirect those to /dev/null (or elsewhere): command > /dev/null 2>&1 < /dev/null & If you want to launch the commands remotely (without an interactive login) then some variation on these should work for you: ssh -f hostname command ssh hostname command \& ssh hostname command \> /dev/null 2\>\&1 \< /dev/null \& Not the backgrounding (&) and the redirections must be done on the remote end so they must be quoted so that they aren't interpreted by your local shell. The openssh faq talks about the hang on exit problem, they might have other suggestions as well. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 17:17:22 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 13:17:22 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040502170504.1B8C617C4AC@smtp.istop.com> Konqueror does have many problems with JavaScript. Opera is written much better. You may try another method of hiding e-mail address from bots, as described here: http://www.webquake.ca/?topic=white-papers&id=2512 The idea is to replace alphanumeric text of e-mail address by HTML entities. zb. On Sunday 02 May 2004 12:23, you wrote: > Hi, > > I'm running Konqueror 3.1.4 on KDE 3.1.3 and I've run into a problem or > bug. I wrote up a webpage and included the following Javascript: > > > > at three points in the page. The purpose of it is to construct the href="mailto:...">blah tags to avoid spam bots from harvesting my email > from the web page. Keep in mind, I'm new to this so I wouldn't expect this > to be a silver bullet for spam or anything. Anyway, I got the following > error messages from Konqueror: > > khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error > at line 8 > khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error > at line 9 > khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error > at line 9 > > When I view the page, the script hasn't executed and there are "blank > spots" where there should be email links. However, when I open the page in > Opera 7.11, I have no problem getting the proper page with email links > intact. > > Am I dealing with a bug in Konqueror or is there something screwy with my > script? Does anyone know if there is a work-around for this? > > Regards, > > Brad Fonseca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 17:27:31 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 02 May 2004 13:27:31 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <20040502170504.1B8C617C4AC-1WX2iAnhvdWVv0GNigkn8w@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <20040502170504.1B8C617C4AC@smtp.istop.com> Message-ID: <40952F83.6060902@sympatico.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > The idea is to replace alphanumeric text of e-mail address by HTML entities. I wouldn't rely on this one. It's trivial to remove; running the script through tidy, for one, will undo it. It probably wouldn't be a good idea to use someone else's canned JavaScript obfuscation routine, either. The more different ways this is implemented, the less likely it is that there will be an easy way to work around it. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 21:59:39 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 17:59:39 -0400 Subject: C printf format spec for long double? Message-ID: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> What is the C printf format spec for long double? Nothing I try seems to work without at least a warning. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sun May 2 22:25:50 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 18:25:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: C printf format spec for long double? In-Reply-To: <20040502215939.GB32116-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> Message-ID: On Sun, 2 May 2004, Walter Dnes wrote: > What is the C printf format spec for long double? Nothing I try seems > to work without at least a warning. Try %Lf (the ell must be capitalized). That's the standard. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 02:21:52 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Sun, 2 May 2004 22:21:52 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <40952F83.6060902-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <20040502170504.1B8C617C4AC@smtp.istop.com> <40952F83.6060902@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad@rogers.com> What would you suggest? Brad On May 2, 2004 13:27, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > The idea is to replace alphanumeric text of e-mail address by HTML > > entities. > > I wouldn't rely on this one. It's trivial to remove; running the script > through tidy, for one, will undo it. > > It probably wouldn't be a good idea to use someone else's canned > JavaScript obfuscation routine, either. The more different ways this is > implemented, the less likely it is that there will be an easy way to > work around it. > > Stewart > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 06:14:21 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (gabriel) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 02:14:21 -0400 Subject: how do I convert a .torrent file to a .iso file In-Reply-To: <20040502073857.80909.qmail-JWzsWOvp9qOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502073857.80909.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405030214.22217.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 2, 2004 03:38 am, Mel Seder wrote: > I went to fedora.rehat.com to get a CORE test file file. > > The file I downloaded had the description; > > Official Fedora Core 2 TEST3 binary iso images for i386 > > The file has a .torrent extension. How to I make it a .iso extension so I > can try burning it to a DVD burner? torrent files are themselves not really data files, but instruction sets to tell a bittorrent client where and how to download the bigger file. so what you need is a copy of bittorrent with which to open your new torrent file. the client will then download the iso you're looking for. -- the surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. - friedrich nietzsche -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 12:28:10 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 08:28:10 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <20040502170504.1B8C617C4AC@smtp.istop.com> <40952F83.6060902@sympatico.ca> <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <40963ADA.8060800@sympatico.ca> Brad Fonseca wrote: > What would you suggest? Roll yer own JavaScript, Konqueror's failings notwithstanding. As long as it's not identical to someone else's code, it should be not worth the effort of a spammer trying to reverse-engineer it. I have seen a proof-of-concept Perl module that used IE6's JavaScript engine to spit out an approximation of the DOM source that the browser shows you. The lifespan of e-mail hiding this way may be limited. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 15:28:26 2004 From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:28:26 -0400 Subject: LCD / Video Card advice request In-Reply-To: <20040430152035.GA29754-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <00cb01c42c70$e2b02350$6401a8c0@main> <20040428134020.GC14790@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040429225114.7ef2145f.hgibson@eol.ca> <20040430152035.GA29754@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040503152826.GA2953@gondolin.dyndns.org> On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 11:20:35AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > 66HZ refresh != working fine. 75Hz refresh == working fine. Almost all > 17" monitors on the market are crap when it comes wo 1280x1024 (some > even at 1152x864). It is even starting to be true for 19" screens. 75Hz == visible flicker, 85Hz also bothers me when I'm tired. So take my advice on LCD ghosting with a grain of salt if you have less sensitive eyes. :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 15:43:02 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 11:43:02 -0400 Subject: stopping bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20040502074642.81466.qmail-JWzsWOvp9qOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502074642.81466.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405031143.02806.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 2, 2004 03:46 am, Mel Seder wrote: > Once my download is done can I terminate my program even though other > bittorrent users may be downloading from me? you can, but you shouldn't for a while. bittorrent is cool because it distributes the bandwidth load over multiple clients. but if everyone just kills the client as soon as they're done downloading, then this distribution is limited only to the few people who leave it on. i believe that the general guideline is that you should leave it on for twice as long as it took you to download the file(s). but if you can, leave it on for as long as possible and keep the bits flowing ;-) -- the world needs dreamers and the world needs doers. but above all, the world needs dreamers who do. - sarah ban breathnach -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 17:38:41 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 13:38:41 -0400 Subject: stopping bittorrent In-Reply-To: <200405031143.02806.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502074642.81466.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> <200405031143.02806.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20040503173841.GA29983@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 03, 2004 at 11:43:02AM -0400, daniel wrote: > you can, but you shouldn't for a while. bittorrent is cool because it > distributes the bandwidth load over multiple clients. but if everyone just > kills the client as soon as they're done downloading, then this distribution > is limited only to the few people who leave it on. > > i believe that the general guideline is that you should leave it on for twice > as long as it took you to download the file(s). but if you can, leave it on > for as long as possible and keep the bits flowing ;-) Given the asymetry of most people's connection, something like jigdo makes much more sense. let the centralized servers that have the outgoing bandwidth deal with the load. It works great for Debian. Of course they also encourage just installing what you need using netisntall rather than being so wasteful as to download an actual iso, of which you won't ever use 75%. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 22:30:12 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 18:30:12 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <40963ADA.8060800-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <40963ADA.8060800@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200405031830.13589.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Thanks, I'll try that. I imagine there's some online resources to teach me more about Javascript. Any suggestions for good ones? Brad On May 3, 2004 08:28, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Brad Fonseca wrote: > > What would you suggest? > > Roll yer own JavaScript, Konqueror's failings notwithstanding. As long > as it's not identical to someone else's code, it should be not worth the > effort of a spammer trying to reverse-engineer it. > > I have seen a proof-of-concept Perl module that used IE6's JavaScript > engine to spit out an approximation of the DOM source that the browser > shows you. The lifespan of e-mail hiding this way may be limited. > > Stewart > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 3 17:55:21 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 03 May 2004 13:55:21 -0400 Subject: stopping bittorrent In-Reply-To: <20040503173841.GA29983-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502074642.81466.qmail@web40701.mail.yahoo.com> <200405031143.02806.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <20040503173841.GA29983@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <40968789.3090301@sympatico.ca> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > Given the asymetry of most people's connection, something like jigdo > makes much more sense. let the centralized servers that have the > outgoing bandwidth deal with the load. For software distribution, maybe. For distributing live music recordings, however, BT is fantastic. It's kind of taper lore that BT is at its best when a show is distributed from a domestic ADSL line. That way, it might take 10-12 hours to complete the download, but at the end of that time, everyone has a complete copy. Fast servers mean that people hop on, leech, then disconnect. Stewart (who has probably spent far too long on sharingthegroove.org) -- np: The Holy Modal Rounders - Take-Off Artist Song -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 00:29:06 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 3 May 2004 20:29:06 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <40952F83.6060902@sympatico.ca> <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200405032029.06753.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 02 May 2004 22:21, Brad Fonseca wrote: > What would you suggest? Rather than obfuscating your email with javascript (I believe that's your goal?) do you have the option of using a script to process form input? With a feedback form there's no need to obfuscate your email address since it can be totally hidden from the user. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 06:06:40 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 02:06:40 -0400 Subject: ndiswrapper + U of T wireless Message-ID: <20040504060640.GA12764@butters.southtrak> I have a Truemobile 1300 on my Dell laptop and recently setup ndiswrapper. Has anyone been able to get wireless to work at the University of Toronto? If so, I would be delighted to hear how you did it. Cheers, Noah -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From edward.chin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 06:36:17 2004 From: edward.chin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (ed) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 02:36:17 -0400 Subject: Video capture card In-Reply-To: <20040502215939.GB32116-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> Message-ID: I wouild like to burn all my video tapes on to CD's or DVD's. Is it as easy as just getting a video capture card? I want to retain quality. I have an Athlon 1700 with a 4mb video card and on board sound from the k7s5a motherboard. Also, is it better to burn in AVI or MPEG-2 format? TIA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 12:16:24 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:16:24 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <200405032029.06753.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200405032029.06753.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200405040816.24880.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Thank you! That is a great idea I hadn't thought of. My goal is indeed to obfuscate my email address. Now to go and figure all this stuff out. Brad On May 3, 2004 20:29, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Sunday 02 May 2004 22:21, Brad Fonseca wrote: > > What would you suggest? > > Rather than obfuscating your email with javascript (I believe that's your > goal?) do you have the option of using a script to process form input? > > With a feedback form there's no need to obfuscate your email address since > it can be totally hidden from the user. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 12:54:09 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 08:54:09 -0400 Subject: ndiswrapper + U of T wireless In-Reply-To: <20040504060640.GA12764-y6Pr2RmEDtN2c7wgCBzOK1pr/1R2p/CL@public.gmane.org> References: <20040504060640.GA12764@butters.southtrak> Message-ID: <20040504125409.GD20399@seahorse> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 02:06:40AM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I have a Truemobile 1300 on my Dell laptop and recently setup > ndiswrapper. Has anyone been able to get wireless to work at the > University of Toronto? If so, I would be delighted to hear how you did > it. Hello. http://wireless.utoronto.ca should have all the info you need. You have to set up a UTORdial account/password (you need a library card for this). With that information you can authenticate your wireless card's MAC to your account and then be allowed access through the U of T wireless system. This is done through a web browser (and it works in lynx!). On the hardware setup side of things, all you have to do is add the appropriate SSID and WEP key for the U of T network to /etc/pcmcia/wireless-settings or whatever the correct file is on your distribution. I put an old Thinkpad 390ED with an Orinoco card on the network with Gentoo Linux and it worked fine. Good luck! Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 13:44:54 2004 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 09:44:54 -0400 Subject: Video capture card In-Reply-To: References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> Message-ID: <40979E56.7090302@alteeve.com> ed wrote: > I wouild like to burn all my video tapes > on to CD's or DVD's. Is it as easy as > just getting a video capture card? Yes, and No... It can be tricky getting some capture cards working with Linux. Once working capturing is fairly easy. > I want to retain quality. Then you will need LOTS of HD space!!! And the card should capture at atleast 720x480 @ 30 frames/sec(60 fielda/sec) > I have an Athlon 1700 with a 4mb video > card and on board sound from the k7s5a > motherboard. Sounds fast enough... > Also, is it better to burn in AVI or > MPEG-2 format? > AVI is just a wrapper for many different formats. Cinepak, indeo, etc... It is(was?) known to have a size limit, which could bite you. Hopefully someone with more experience on this than me could help here. Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 13:51:24 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 04 May 2004 09:51:24 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <200405040816.24880.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200405022221.52093.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200405032029.06753.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200405040816.24880.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: Brad Fonseca writes: > Thank you! That is a great idea I hadn't thought of. My goal is indeed to > obfuscate my email address. > > Now to go and figure all this stuff out. If you're going to use a form, you may be interested in FormMail: http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/ -- g. matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 14:04:22 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:04:22 -0400 Subject: Way OT: video formats (was Re:Video capture card) In-Reply-To: <40979E56.7090302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> <40979E56.7090302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200405041004.22725.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 09:44, Lance F. Squire wrote: > > Also, is it better to burn in AVI or > > MPEG-2 format? > > AVI is just a wrapper for many different formats. Cinepak, indeo, etc... > > It is(was?) known to have a size limit, which could bite you. Hopefully > someone with more experience on this than me could help here. I need to put a video of about 10 minutes up on a website. Does anyone have suggestions on the best way to present this (I'd rather not resort to anything like realserver)? Obviously small size is important and the ability to have it play as it downloads (I suppose most video players are capable of that?). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 14:22:38 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 10:22:38 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> <200405040816.24880.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040504140910.40C6517C02A@smtp.istop.com> > If you're going to use a form, you may be interested in FormMail: > > http://nms-cgi.sourceforge.net/ Hope it has been improved now and does not allow e-mail relying any more? ;) zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 14:08:02 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin Acton) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:08:02 -0400 Subject: Video capture card In-Reply-To: <40979E56.7090302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> <40979E56.7090302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1083679682.2685.3.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Tue, 2004-05-04 at 09:44, Lance F. Squire wrote: > ed wrote: > > I wouild like to burn all my video tapes > > on to CD's or DVD's. Is it as easy as > > just getting a video capture card? The foolproof way is to get an analogue to digital converter, ie composite input, firewire output. Many digital camcorders will do this (usually called "passthrough") but you can also buy external units as well. Then use dvgrab to capture the video. Then use kino, kdenlive, lives, or cinelerra to edit, and render to avi or mpeg or whatever you want. The quality is MUCH better than a capture card, and there are no headaches setting it up. (Of course this assumes you have a firewire input...) Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 14:19:39 2004 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 10:19:39 -0400 Subject: Video capture card In-Reply-To: <1083679682.2685.3.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> <40979E56.7090302@alteeve.com> <1083679682.2685.3.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <4097A67B.2020305@alteeve.com> Austin Acton wrote: > The foolproof way is to get an analogue to digital converter, ie > composite input, firewire output. I've been looking for one of these for a month now... any hints? >Many digital camcorders will do this > (usually called "passthrough") but you can also buy external units as > well. Well, Was thinking of getting one of these anyway. Could kill two birds with one stone! > Then use dvgrab to capture the video. Then use kino, kdenlive, > lives, or cinelerra to edit, and render to avi or mpeg or whatever you > want. > > The quality is MUCH better than a capture card, and there are no > headaches setting it up. (Of course this assumes you have a firewire > input...) > I'm sure it has to be better that my BUZ card... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 15:09:27 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 11:09:27 -0400 Subject: Video capture card In-Reply-To: References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> Message-ID: <20040504150927.GB29983@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 02:36:17AM -0400, ed wrote: > I wouild like to burn all my video tapes > on to CD's or DVD's. Is it as easy as > just getting a video capture card? > I want to retain quality. > I have an Athlon 1700 with a 4mb video > card and on board sound from the k7s5a > motherboard. > Also, is it better to burn in AVI or > MPEG-2 format? Well MPEG2 is what DVD uses, so at least many people can watch that. Watching something like Divx (or Xvid) which are MPEG4 style encoders takes more cpu power (both for encoding and playback) but requries a fraction of the disk space (and for internet transfers a lot less bandwidth). avi format is the most common for storing mpeg4 encoded video. Quicktime can do it too I imagine. Both are simple multiplexed stream storage formats (and hence tell you nothing about what you need to view a file with that extension) I believe MPEG2 you expect about 1GB/hour. Similar quality MPEG4 (xvid at least) uses about 350MB. For your hardware, encoding with mpeg4 should take about 2 hours per 1 hour of video. Playback seems OK at about 700 to 800mhz machines. Look at mencoder (part of mplayer) for a nice encoding program. transcode is also nice for converting one format to another easily. Both are avilable for debian from the marillat archives. Other distributions should hopefully have packages available somewhere too. For a capture device, well a quick search found something like: http://mjpeg.sourceforge.net/driver-zoran/cards.php which has drivers for some of the Pinacle cards and the iomega buz, and such. Those seem to compress with jpeg (mjpeg?) which can then be converted to something else with transcode or mencoder. Of course bt878/848 cards are quite well supported (never seen one myself so I don't know what the quality is like). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 15:20:53 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 09:20:53 -0600 Subject: Way OT: video formats (was Re:Video capture card) In-Reply-To: <200405041004.22725.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> <40979E56.7090302@alteeve.com> <200405041004.22725.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040504152053.GB43570@idiom.novusordo.net> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 10:04:22AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 09:44, Lance F. Squire wrote: > > > Also, is it better to burn in AVI or > > > MPEG-2 format? > > > > AVI is just a wrapper for many different formats. Cinepak, indeo, etc... > > I need to put a video of about 10 minutes up on a website. Does anyone have > suggestions on the best way to present this (I'd rather not resort to > anything like realserver)? > > Obviously small size is important and the ability to have it play as it > downloads (I suppose most video players are capable of that?). You probably meant DivX (XviD, 3vix, or one of those MPEG-4 variants). That would work fine; you can use mencoder or one of the other packages mentioned in this thread to export to an .AVI or .OGM (OGG thing, probably not the most compatible transport). Most reasonable players should be quite happy playing as they download. However, if you are looking for something more along the lines of a streaming server and want to avoid Real (and who could blame you?), there is the Darwin Streaming Server: http://www.apple.com/quicktime/products/qtss/ http://developer.apple.com/darwin/projects/streaming/ Yes, it comes as source code (they also seem to have RH9 binaries). :) As I've never used it, I can't say how easy/hard it may be to generate content that it feels like streaming, nor how easy/hard it is to setup and administer. But there it is! -- Taavi Burns "Oh, dhon't worry ociffer...I'm not drunk, you're just s-hober!" /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 17:49:29 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 13:49:29 -0400 Subject: question about upgrading to Fedora Message-ID: <4097D7A9.6040606@passport.ca> Hi, I'm currently dual booting XP with RH7.2 . I want to upgrade to Fedora but don't want to lose my XP partition. I'm booting using Boot Magic then loading Linux with Grub. If I boot off the first Fedora CD will it know I have an XP partition and leave it alone? I am going to back up my Linux home directory and do a complete install. I think it would be difficult to just upgrade from 7.2 to Fedora. I assume Fedora will write over my previous files. So I guess my only question now is how Fedora will deal with the XP partition. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 19:00:12 2004 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 15:00:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Create a boot cd Message-ID: <20040504190012.17981.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> All, I have a question about create a bootable cd. I am using Redhat 8.0 and installed a lots of application programs on it. Now I want to create a cd from my computer and use this cd as a installation cd for another computer. Is this possible or I have to install Rehat 8.0 and re-install all the application programs again? Thanks! Louie --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 19:51:45 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:51:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: question about upgrading to Fedora In-Reply-To: <4097D7A9.6040606-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <4097D7A9.6040606@passport.ca> Message-ID: <20040504195145.88042.qmail@web40713.mail.yahoo.com> I'm not an expert at all, but if I recall correctly Fedora will ask you if you want to use existing linux partitions or to delete and use all partions on the drive(s). Can anyone verify that this is correct? --- Jim Ruxton wrote: > Hi, > > I'm currently dual booting XP with RH7.2 . I want to upgrade to Fedora > but don't want to lose my XP partition. I'm booting using Boot Magic > then loading Linux with Grub. If I boot off the first Fedora CD will it > know I have an XP partition and leave it alone? I am going to back up > my Linux home directory and do a complete install. I think it would be > difficult to just upgrade from 7.2 to Fedora. I assume Fedora will write > over my previous files. So I guess my only question now is how Fedora > will deal with the XP partition. > Thanks > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 19:53:09 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 12:53:09 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Create a boot cd In-Reply-To: <20040504190012.17981.qmail-F6MJYY+C+hCA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040504190012.17981.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040504195309.87906.qmail@web40707.mail.yahoo.com> That would be really cool if that could be done :-) --- hui xu wrote: > All, > > I have a question about create a bootable cd. I am using Redhat 8.0 and > installed a lots of application programs on it. Now I want to create a cd > from my computer and use this cd as a installation cd for another computer. > Is this possible or I have to install Rehat 8.0 and re-install all the > application programs again? > > Thanks! > Louie > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 20:09:49 2004 From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ladislav Svatos) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:09:49 -0400 Subject: Create a boot cd In-Reply-To: <20040504190012.17981.qmail-F6MJYY+C+hCA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040504190012.17981.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405041609.49388.lada@agawa.com> On May 4, 2004 03:00 pm, hui xu wrote: > All, > > I have a question about create a bootable cd. I am using Redhat 8.0 and > installed a lots of application programs on it. Now I want to create a cd > from my computer and use this cd as a installation cd for another computer. > Is this possible or I have to install Rehat 8.0 and re-install all the > application programs again? > > Thanks! > Louie You can use Mondo to create a bootable CD backup and restore it on another computer. This, of course, assumes that the hardware is identical. Lada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 20:11:33 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 16:11:33 -0400 Subject: question about upgrading to Fedora In-Reply-To: <20040504195145.88042.qmail-otpZgr+augCA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040504195145.88042.qmail@web40713.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405041611.33546.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> On May 4, 2004 03:51 pm, Mel Seder wrote: > I'm not an expert at all, but if I recall correctly Fedora will ask you if > you want to use existing linux partitions or to delete and use all partions > on the drive(s). Can anyone verify that this is correct? Yes, this will happen. Actually, just yesterday we upgraded a comp from redhat7.3 (dual boot with win2000) to fedora core 1. No problems. Kept the windows partition. Grub had a slight misconfiguration so it required so we just reran the grub installer again and everything worked fine. > --- Jim Ruxton wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm currently dual booting XP with RH7.2 . I want to upgrade to Fedora > > but don't want to lose my XP partition. I'm booting using Boot Magic > > then loading Linux with Grub. If I boot off the first Fedora CD will it > > know I have an XP partition and leave it alone? I am going to back up > > my Linux home directory and do a complete install. I think it would be > > difficult to just upgrade from 7.2 to Fedora. I assume Fedora will write > > over my previous files. So I guess my only question now is how Fedora > > will deal with the XP partition. > > Thanks > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > ===== > The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- _______________________________________________________ Fred Nastos Ph.D. Candidate Department of Physics Tel: 416-978-4364 University of Toronto Fax: 416-978-2537 60 St. George Street Toronto, ON M5S 1A7 Web: www.physics.utoronto.ca/~nastos _______________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 20:15:46 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 14:15:46 -0600 Subject: Create a boot cd In-Reply-To: <200405041609.49388.lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040504190012.17981.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> <200405041609.49388.lada@agawa.com> Message-ID: <20040504201545.GB52066@idiom.novusordo.net> On Tue, May 04, 2004 at 04:09:49PM -0400, Ladislav Svatos wrote: > > You can use Mondo to create a bootable CD backup and restore it on another > computer. This, of course, assumes that the hardware is identical. Or at least close enough. Linux seems to do a pretty good job of handling hardware changes between boots, particulalry with those distros that autoprobe devices on each boot. IIRC Mondo fully supports rearranging partitions for Linux reinstalls, so identical HDs aren't even a requirement. -- Taavi Burns "Please get out of the car, sir." "Oh, that won't be necessary. I'm the D.D." "The designated driver?" "No, the designated decoy." /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 20:16:07 2004 From: lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org (Sergio Salvi) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:16:07 -0400 Subject: Create a boot cd In-Reply-To: <20040504190012.17981.qmail-F6MJYY+C+hCA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040504190012.17981.qmail@web50609.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4097FA07.2070009@direitonet.com.br> MondoRescue (http://www.mondorescue.org/) might be the solution for you. It will create a bootable CD of your installed Linux and then you can restore it in another machine, as a clone. If one CD (or DVD) is not enough for your data, it will split in many CDs/DVDs. Just be aware of cross-platform restores, like from a i686 (Athlons, Pentium III, etc) to a i586 (AMD K6). It's like a Norton Ghost for Linux :) []s, Sergio Salvi. hui xu wrote: > All, > > I have a question about create a bootable cd. I am using Redhat 8.0 and > installed a lots of application programs on it. Now I want to create a > cd from my computer and use this cd as a installation cd for another > computer. Is this possible or I have to install Rehat 8.0 and re-install > all the application programs again? > > Thanks! > Louie > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Post your free ad now! *Yahoo! Canada Personals* > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 20:41:25 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:41:25 -0400 Subject: question about upgrading to Fedora References: <20040504195145.88042.qmail@web40713.mail.yahoo.com> <200405041611.33546.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <4097FFF5.8030201@passport.ca> Thanks a lot Fred and Mel. I'll go ahead and bring my Dinosaur up to speed. Jim >On May 4, 2004 03:51 pm, Mel Seder wrote: > > >>I'm not an expert at all, but if I recall correctly Fedora will ask you if >>you want to use existing linux partitions or to delete and use all partions >>on the drive(s). Can anyone verify that this is correct? >> >> > >Yes, this will happen. Actually, just yesterday we upgraded a comp >from redhat7.3 (dual boot with win2000) to fedora core 1. No problems. >Kept the windows partition. Grub had a slight misconfiguration so it >required so we just reran the grub installer again and everything >worked fine. > > > >>--- Jim Ruxton wrote: >> >> >>>Hi, >>> >>>I'm currently dual booting XP with RH7.2 . I want to upgrade to Fedora >>>but don't want to lose my XP partition. I'm booting using Boot Magic >>>then loading Linux with Grub. If I boot off the first Fedora CD will it >>>know I have an XP partition and leave it alone? I am going to back up >>>my Linux home directory and do a complete install. I think it would be >>>difficult to just upgrade from 7.2 to Fedora. I assume Fedora will write >>>over my previous files. So I guess my only question now is how Fedora >>>will deal with the XP partition. >>>Thanks >>> >>>-- >>>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >>> >>> >>===== >>The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him >>absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 20:53:58 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 16:53:58 -0400 Subject: Trouble mounting CDROM using 2.6 Kernel Message-ID: <409802E6.700@passport.ca> Hi I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why I'm having trouble mounting CDROM under the 2.6 Kernel. I get this message when I try to mount. ie. mount /dev/hdc I get this error message: mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, or too many mounted file systems This is using the following fstab line: /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom iso9660 noauto,user,ro 0 0 If I try to mount directly: mount -t iso9660 /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom I get this error message: mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, or too many mounted file systems My grub.conf file sets hdc=ide-cd ie. kernel /bzImage-2.6.4 ro root=/dev/hda6 hdc=ide-cd Anyone have any thoughts what I'm doing wrong? I would use /dev/cdrom but it is sym linked to scd0 and I understand that ide-scsi isn't used in the 2.6 kernel for cdroms. This was all working fine in the 2.4 kernel. Thanks, Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 21:04:56 2004 From: lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org (Sergio Salvi) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 17:04:56 -0400 Subject: Trouble mounting CDROM using 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: <409802E6.700-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <409802E6.700@passport.ca> Message-ID: <40980578.9060404@direitonet.com.br> Jim, does any of the commands below return anything? cat /proc/ide/ide1/hdc/driver cat /proc/ide/ide1/hdc/model dmesg | grep hdc Do you have the ide-cdrom module loaded or compiled in the kernel? Check /proc/ide/drivers. And, the last thing, "grep iso9660 /proc/filesystems" shows anything? As a reference, here's my output: # cat /proc/ide/ide1/hdc/driver ide-cdrom version 4.60 # cat /proc/ide/ide1/hdc/model _NEC DVD+RW ND-5100A # dmesg | grep hdc ide1: BM-DMA at 0xbfa8-0xbfaf, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio hdc: _NEC DVD+RW ND-5100A, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive hdc: ATAPI 24X DVD-ROM CD-R/RW drive, 2048kB Cache, UDMA(33) # cat /proc/ide/drivers ide-cdrom version 4.60 ide-disk version 1.18 []s, Sergio Salvi. Jim Ruxton wrote: > Hi I was wondering if anyone has any thoughts on why I'm having trouble > mounting CDROM under the 2.6 Kernel. I get this message when I try to > mount. ie. > > mount /dev/hdc > > I get this error message: > > mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, > or too many mounted file systems > > This is using the following fstab line: > > /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom iso9660 noauto,user,ro 0 0 > > If I try to mount directly: > > mount -t iso9660 /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom > > I get this error message: > > mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only > mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, > or too many mounted file systems > > My grub.conf file sets hdc=ide-cd > ie. > > kernel /bzImage-2.6.4 ro root=/dev/hda6 hdc=ide-cd > > Anyone have any thoughts what I'm doing wrong? I would use /dev/cdrom > but it is sym linked to scd0 and I understand that ide-scsi isn't used > in the 2.6 kernel for cdroms. This was all working fine in the 2.4 kernel. > > Thanks, > Jim > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 23:13:35 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 19:13:35 -0400 Subject: C printf format spec for long double? In-Reply-To: References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> Message-ID: <20040504231335.GA1047@m450> On Sun, May 02, 2004 at 06:25:50PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote > On Sun, 2 May 2004, Walter Dnes wrote: > > What is the C printf format spec for long double? Nothing I try seems > > to work without at least a warning. > > Try %Lf (the ell must be capitalized). That's the standard. Thanks; much appreciated. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 4 23:40:01 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 19:40:01 -0400 Subject: perl file browser Message-ID: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am still new to perl but wow have I learned a lot in the last week or so! What I need now (and am hoping there is a canned script one of you knows about that I can re-purpose) is a perl/CGI program for creating a nice'ish list of the directories and files on a partition. What I need is a way to list all the directories with the ability to click on a directory and have it show sub directories and so on (similar to any number of file system browsers). I then need to be able to select any given group of directories and files and dump that list to a text file (I know it's ugly and I should use a DB but one thing at a time). I also want to be able to select a directory and let the user decide whether or not to include new files and subdirectories that may be added after the file is saved. (I was thinking of accomplishing this by tagging a flag to directory names where one value will tell perl to rescan and include anything new before executing). After checking for changes I want perl to 'cp' all the directories and files selected to another location. Sound easy? :) I already have the better part of the program's sanity checking done where I validate source, destination and online partitions (using things like 'blkid', 'fstab', 'df', etc) so I already have sufficient access rights to do this via the browser (using 'sudo' where needed, please don't yell at me for security [though helpful advice is always appreciated]!). Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? Thanks!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 00:55:55 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 20:55:55 -0400 Subject: Trouble mounting CDROM using 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: <409802E6.700-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <409802E6.700@passport.ca> Message-ID: <200405042055.56007.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 16:53, Jim Ruxton wrote: > This is using the following fstab line: > > /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom iso9660 noauto,user,ro 0 0 > > If I try to mount directly: > > mount -t iso9660 /dev/hdc /mnt/cdrom > > I get this error message: > > mount: block device /dev/hdc is write-protected, mounting read-only > mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hdc, > or too many mounted file systems Are you sure that your kernel has iso9660 support? cat /proc/filesystems to see if iso9660 is listed. "modprobe isofs" if it isn't listed and then verify that it is listed. > My grub.conf file sets hdc=ide-cd > ie. > > kernel /bzImage-2.6.4 ro root=/dev/hda6 hdc=ide-cd You should not need to do this ... at least I don't do it and my cdrom works fine. > Anyone have any thoughts what I'm doing wrong? I would use /dev/cdrom > but it is sym linked to scd0 and I understand that ide-scsi isn't used > in the 2.6 kernel for cdroms. This was all working fine in the 2.4 kernel. ide-scsi should only be needed for cd burning and it isn't needed even for that in 2.6. Is this a kernel that you compiled yourself or a standard distribution kernel? -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 01:35:56 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 4 May 2004 21:35:56 -0400 Subject: Trouble mounting CDROM using 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: <200405042055.56007.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <409802E6.700@passport.ca> <200405042055.56007.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200405042135.56003.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 20:55, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > kernel /bzImage-2.6.4 ro root=/dev/hda6 hdc=ide-cd > > You should not need to do this ... at least I don't do it and my cdrom > works fine. To be clear I don't believe that you need the hdc=ide-cd kernel argument ... I don't know that it's causing your problem but I would reboot without that argument and see how things go. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 02:32:37 2004 From: lists3-8OOxOvJoDXDLSf97qRSy8VAUjnlXr6A1 at public.gmane.org (Sergio Salvi) Date: Tue, 04 May 2004 22:32:37 -0400 Subject: Trouble mounting CDROM using 2.6 Kernel In-Reply-To: <200405042135.56003.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <409802E6.700@passport.ca> <200405042055.56007.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200405042135.56003.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <40985245.1000501@direitonet.com.br> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 20:55, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > >>>kernel /bzImage-2.6.4 ro root=/dev/hda6 hdc=ide-cd >> >>You should not need to do this ... at least I don't do it and my cdrom >>works fine. > > > To be clear I don't believe that you need the hdc=ide-cd kernel argument ... I > don't know that it's causing your problem but I would reboot without that > argument and see how things go. > hdc=ide-cd should not cause any problems, it is only forcing the ide-cd driver to be attached on hdc. Lets wait for his reply about the iso9660 filesystem... []s, Sergio Salvi. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 04:17:14 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 00:17:14 -0400 Subject: Trouble mounting CDROM using 2.6 Kernel References: <409802E6.700@passport.ca> <200405042055.56007.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200405042135.56003.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <40985245.1000501@direitonet.com.br> Message-ID: <40986ACA.80001@passport.ca> Thanks everyone for your help. I was doing something very dumb :-[ . Iwas trying to mount a music CD which of course wouldn't mount. Sorry about that. All is working as it should now . Jim Fraser Campbell wrote: >> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 20:55, Fraser Campbell wrote: >> >> >>>> kernel /bzImage-2.6.4 ro root=/dev/hda6 hdc=ide-cd >>> >>> >>> You should not need to do this ... at least I don't do it and my cdrom >>> works fine. >> >> >> >> To be clear I don't believe that you need the hdc=ide-cd kernel >> argument ... I don't know that it's causing your problem but I would >> reboot without that argument and see how things go. >> > > hdc=ide-cd should not cause any problems, it is only forcing the > ide-cd driver to be attached on hdc. Lets wait for his reply about the > iso9660 filesystem... > > > []s, > Sergio Salvi. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 11:56:36 2004 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 07:56:36 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <409829D1.2070904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <42D0FDF0-9E8B-11D8-AA1B-00039310151E@axxent.ca> On Tuesday, May 4, 2004, at 07:40 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can > hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think > might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? I don't know of anything specific to your needs, but I have a couple of meta-suggestions. 1) There's a lot of Perl code available a SourceForge with searchable project descriptions, starting at . 2) O'Reilly's _Perl Cookbook_ is one of the most practical computer books available for cases where you know what you want to do, but need some specific implementation suggestions. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 14:13:49 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:13:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Create a boot cd Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, Sergio Salvi wrote: > MondoRescue (http://www.mondorescue.org/) might be the solution for you. > It will create a bootable CD of your installed Linux and then you can > restore it in another machine, as a clone. If one CD (or DVD) is not > enough for your data, it will split in many CDs/DVDs. Just be aware of > cross-platform restores, like from a i686 (Athlons, Pentium III, etc) to > a i586 (AMD K6). Hi Sergio. I can't think of any cases where a Linux distro drops specific userspace binaries on a box based on the cpu subtype (excluding Gentoo which compiles all bins). The kernel may well be different but if a nice generic i386 kernel is installed and booted before the process is started all should be well. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 14:25:14 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 10:25:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Create a boot cd Message-ID: On Tue, 4 May 2004, hui xu wrote: > I have a question about create a bootable cd. I am using Redhat 8.0 > and installed a lots of application programs on it. Now I want to create > a cd from my computer and use this cd as a installation cd for another > computer. Is this possible or I have to install Rehat 8.0 and re-install > all the application programs again? If the aim is to replace/replicate the box, just take a dump/tar/cpio of the data and drop it on the new box over the network or otherwise) and then use kudzu to reconfigure drivers for the new box (or do it manually). I've used this sort of method to rebuild Linux and Solaris boxes often[1]. There are also CDs based distros designed to provide a custom boot environment for a particular box. They could also be useful if the above method was not desirable. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of a single such distro. [1] For Solaris use "boot -r" to reinitialise kernel modules and device files. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 18:12:18 2004 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:12:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: <20040501015833.GA94141-D1t3LT1mScs@public.gmane.org> References: <20040501015833.GA94141@pppoe.ca> Message-ID: <20040505181218.49351.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> All, Thanks for everybody's help. I have checked istop.com web, but I got a new questions. It seems that I have to use telephone line +modem+filter to build a hi-speed internet with static ip. If what I am understanding is right, I got the following questions: 1. how can a telephone achieve 300M/800K speed? 2. If I use internet through phone line, can I use phone in the same time. 3. Could I use cable instead of phone line. The reason I need a static IP is I want to build my home webpage on my server. Later on I can do some labs such as building DNS, LAN, FTP ,ISP etc. Any suggestion will be welcomed! Thanks! Louie --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 18:23:51 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:23:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: <20040505181218.49351.qmail-fB4QmDEr5geA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040505181218.49351.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 2004, hui xu wrote: > Thanks for everybody's help. I have checked istop.com web, but I got a new questions. It seems that I have to use telephone line +modem+filter to build a hi-speed internet with static ip. If what I am understanding is right, I got the following questions: > > 1. how can a telephone achieve 300M/800K speed? Well, to be pedantic, it's the copper that's achieving that speed, not the phone itself. And I think the numbers are 3Mbps/800Kbps at the top end. 300Mbps would be lovely but I think I'd want to see some proof. > 2. If I use internet through phone line, can I use phone in the same time. I have Sympatico DSL at home, and the phone and the Internet work at the same time, essentially by splitting the frequency domain. Voice gets 300Hz to 3.3KHz, and data gets the higher frequencies. > 3. Could I use cable instead of phone line. Sure. > The reason I need a static IP is I want to build my home webpage on my server. Later on I can do some labs such as building DNS, LAN, FTP ,ISP etc. If istop.com is OK with all that, then go for it. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 18:42:42 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:42:42 -0400 Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: <20040505181218.49351.qmail-fB4QmDEr5geA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040505181218.49351.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040505182830.1195017C4D9@smtp.istop.com> > 1. how can a telephone achieve 300M/800K speed? The numbers... I would like to know myself. And that would be possible if I cared more ;) I guess they impose a signal of radio-frequency on telephone line. It can not go too far, but these let say 1 Mb per second can be achieved. > 2. If I use internet through phone line, can I use phone in the same time. You can. This is a nice advantage of ADSL over normal dial-up. > 3. Could I use cable instead of phone line. You could. But not with istop.com. You could with rogers.com, for instance. But they are not going to give you static IP. > The reason I need a static IP is I want to build my home webpage on my > server. Later on I can do some labs such as building DNS, LAN, FTP ,ISP > etc. zb. > Louie -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 18:33:24 2004 From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 14:33:24 -0400 Subject: Static IP Message-ID: <20040505183324.SUSX67054.fep02-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> > The reason I need a static IP is I want to build my home webpage on my server. Later on I can do some labs such as building DNS, LAN, FTP ,ISP etc. > You don't technically need a static ip for that. You can always get a dynamic dns service (eg: dyndns.org) to map a free domain to your changing ip. All you'd need to do is run a script on your server to periodically update the dns entry at the dynamic dns provider. I have cable, and technically, my ip can change every once in a while... but it's only changed 2-3 times in the last 5 years. I had a dyndns.org domain and I just update it manually whenever my ip changes, only because I'm too lazy to install the script :D -Matt -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 18:34:05 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin Acton) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 14:34:05 -0400 Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: <20040505182830.1195017C4D9-1WX2iAnhvdWVv0GNigkn8w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040505181218.49351.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> <20040505182830.1195017C4D9@smtp.istop.com> Message-ID: <1083782045.3242.1.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Wed, 2004-05-05 at 14:42, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > The reason I need a static IP is I want to build my home webpage on my > > server. Later on I can do some labs such as building DNS, LAN, FTP ,ISP > > etc. Most new routers will let you run those services, even with a dynamically allocated IP. It will even update your domain name if you have one. My D-Link DI-614 does this. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 19:46:02 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 15:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: References: <20040505181218.49351.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 5 May 2004 talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Well, to be pedantic, it's the copper that's achieving that speed, not the > phone itself. And I think the numbers are 3Mbps/800Kbps at the top end. > 300Mbps would be lovely but I think I'd want to see some proof. I'm getting 1.7Mbps download from iStop. Proof by means of several large downloads over a period of 24 hours. A friend is getting 3Mbps I believe. Depends on line quality. > > 2. If I use internet through phone line, can I use phone in the same time. > > I have Sympatico DSL at home, and the phone and the Internet work at the Yep, same with iStop. > > The reason I need a static IP is I want to build my home webpage on my > > server. Later on I can do some labs such as building DNS, LAN, FTP > > ,ISP etc. > > If istop.com is OK with all that, then go for it. They are. It is explicitly allowed in the AUP. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 20:08:51 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 16:08:51 -0400 Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: References: <20040505181218.49351.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040505200851.GA12228@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 03:46:02PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > I'm getting 1.7Mbps download from iStop. Proof by means of several large > downloads over a period of 24 hours. A friend is getting 3Mbps I > believe. Depends on line quality. My parents are getting iStop in the next week or so, on a line rated to support 4Mbit according to the availability database, so I will have to see what the 3.5MBit service can really do. > Yep, same with iStop. Yeah, handy feature of ADSL. > They are. It is explicitly allowed in the AUP. They do of course reserve the right to block a port if unreasonable amounts of traffic starts to flow. So if you run a windows server and get the latest outlook virus that starts sending 100000 emails per second, expect something to be blocked real quick. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 5 19:37:34 2004 From: ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Wed, 05 May 2004 19:37:34 +0000 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <42D0FDF0-9E8B-11D8-AA1B-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <42D0FDF0-9E8B-11D8-AA1B-00039310151E@axxent.ca> Message-ID: <4099427E.6090802@rogers.com> Phillip Mills wrote: > On Tuesday, May 4, 2004, at 07:40 PM, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can >> hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think >> might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? > > > I don't know of anything specific to your needs, but I have a couple of > meta-suggestions. > > 1) There's a lot of Perl code available a SourceForge with searchable > project descriptions, starting at . > 2) O'Reilly's _Perl Cookbook_ is one of the most practical computer > books available for cases where you know what you want to do, but need > some specific implementation suggestions. > Yes, the book is great. But the problem is that this script won't be usable due to web interface limitations (to fix it, extensive java-scripting is required). For example, I entered into a subdirectory and clicked of file names. Then I want to visit another subdir to select more files. What do I do? Of course, click 'Back' to go to parent, and loose all my selections when I enter another subdir! On my opinion, another solution aside this script is required. I would recommend ftp in this case. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 00:00:21 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:00:21 -0400 Subject: Way OT: video formats (was Re:Video capture card) In-Reply-To: <200405041004.22725.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> <40979E56.7090302@alteeve.com> <200405041004.22725.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200405052000.21948.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 4, 2004 10:04 am, Fraser Campbell wrote: > I need to put a video of about 10 minutes up on a website. Does anyone > have suggestions on the best way to present this (I'd rather not resort to > anything like realserver)? > > Obviously small size is important and the ability to have it play as it > downloads (I suppose most video players are capable of that?). please don't flame me for this, but i have to recommend using something like windows media for what you're looking for. in terms of codecs, the ms standard codecs are widely used and even work in linux (with mplayer). to embed it in a webpage, you can use something like this: if you use something like this, a windows-based machine will automatically download the required codec if it doesn't already exist. i'm not sure how it'll work on an apple (osX or otherwise) but in linux it's likely to be about as successful as other examples of embedded video -- not successful at all. for editing, i suggest virtualdub (yet another windows app) it's AWESOME for simple editing and very featureful for what it is. it even supports 3rd party plugins. i also have a codec pack i downloaded a while back that includes a lot of the best codecs available out there (divx 4/5, windowsmedia, sorenson4 etc. etc.) so all i had to do was install it, open the file in virtualdub, choose my codec (audio & video) and select 'save as avi". -- i like your christ, I do not like your christians. your christians are so unlike your christ. - mahatma Gandhi -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 00:16:28 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:16:28 -0400 Subject: Website framework In-Reply-To: <001001c42c41$7f833c60$0b01a8c0-8yUEjfVmrpk@public.gmane.org> References: <001001c42c41$7f833c60$0b01a8c0@2k> Message-ID: <001401c432ff$639365b0$6401a8c0@main> Howdy all, Just an update on this politico project. We had it all set up using Mambo, and the client liked the interface and built in modules. We had a very hard time getting them to understand how to use the back end interface and ran into a number of problems from our end as well. Problems which arose: - The template was simple, but since we did not use categories, it added extra unneeded steps to adding info - Hard to get in there and do things like add forms, php snippets, etc. - Hard to train clients on, and very confusing to get across on a limited time schedule. Bottom line, we ended up copying everything into HTML/PHP/Java Script and the client is happy. In the future, we are defiantly not going to use the Mambo CMS but will be trying others. Quick question: Anyone know a resource or HOWTO to make those sweet menus featured in the mambo backend? They are semi translucent drop downs, not sure what language they are written in. Many Thanks, Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 00:29:12 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:29:12 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API Message-ID: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0@main> Hi all, I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, brought into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, any ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have not found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are looking at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying to push the open source approach :) Tia, Sid -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 00:55:51 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 20:55:51 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API In-Reply-To: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20040506004129.A0F6117C30D@smtp.istop.com> I doubt there is such thing around as "real time stock". Unless you pay good money to stock companies. If I am wrong - please let me know. I myself played for quite some time with these things by collecting data from web sites. But it would probably be illegal to display these data publicly. zb. On Wednesday 05 May 2004 20:29, you wrote: > Hi all, > > I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, brought > into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, any > ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have not > found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are looking > at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying to > push the open source approach :) > > Tia, > > Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 01:29:12 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:29:12 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API In-Reply-To: <20040506004129.A0F6117C30D-1WX2iAnhvdWVv0GNigkn8w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040506004129.A0F6117C30D@smtp.istop.com> Message-ID: <001701c43309$8cdca850$6401a8c0@main> > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Zbigniew > Koziol > Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:56 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Realtime stock API > > > I doubt there is such thing around as "real time stock". Unless you pay > good > money to stock companies. If I am wrong - please let me know. > > I myself played for quite some time with these things by collecting data > from > web sites. But it would probably be illegal to display these data > publicly. > > zb. We have also been looking into 15 minute delayed quotes, as it seems much more affordable and obtainable. Any ideas / resources for slightly delayed quotes? I would be looking to spend something in the $2-500US a month range for the datafeed/API Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 01:56:07 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:56:07 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API In-Reply-To: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20040506015607.GA620@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 08:29:12PM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Hi all, > > I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, brought > into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, any > ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have not > found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are looking > at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying to > push the open source approach :) finance.yahoo.com. I'm not sure whether commercial link to it allowed. Shouldn't be, since it's public. -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 02:26:40 2004 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 22:26:40 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <4099427E.6090802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4099427E.6090802@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 03:37 PM, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Of course, click 'Back' to go to parent, and loose all my selections > when I enter another subdir! Or use cookies (or some other session context) and save previous selections as if it were a shopping basket kind of application. I'm sure there are a variety of ways to approach the problem, but I was focussing on Perl resources. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 03:21:03 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:21:03 -0600 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: References: <4099427E.6090802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040506032103.GB32600@idiom.novusordo.net> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 10:26:40PM -0400, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 03:37 PM, Ilya Palagin wrote: > > >Of course, click 'Back' to go to parent, and loose all my selections > >when I enter another subdir! > > Or use cookies (or some other session context) and save previous > selections as if it were a shopping basket kind of application. I'm > sure there are a variety of ways to approach the problem, but I was > focussing on Perl resources. > As long as the user keeps pressing forward (i.e. clicking links instead of hitting the "Back" button), keeping state between screens is trivial using the perl CGI modules. It generally involves putting hidden values in the form, so that the next time a link within that form is clicked, those hidden values are sent along with the other visible form data (i.e. the new input). -- taa Without love we could not survive. Human beings are social creatures, and a concern for each other is the very basis of our life together. -His Holiness the Dalai Lama /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 03:27:13 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 5 May 2004 21:27:13 -0600 Subject: Way OT: video formats (was Re:Video capture card) In-Reply-To: <200405052000.21948.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040502215939.GB32116@m450> <40979E56.7090302@alteeve.com> <200405041004.22725.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200405052000.21948.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20040506032713.GC32600@idiom.novusordo.net> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 08:00:21PM -0400, daniel wrote: > please don't flame me for this, but i have to recommend using something like > windows media for what you're looking for. in terms of codecs, the ms > standard codecs are widely used and even work in linux (with mplayer). to But Macintosh users would need to install this CRAPPY Windows Media Player (it blows huge chunks, I've tried it, and now refuse to install it on my Mac). I'm also not sure that most run-of-the-mill Linux users will have mplayer; they're more likely to have xine or ogle installed. > if you use something like this, a windows-based machine will automatically > download the required codec if it doesn't already exist. i'm not sure how *cough* Except that it can't download DivX codecs. I can't remember the last time that a media player managed to automatically download a codec that it needed. > it'll work on an apple (osX or otherwise) but in linux it's likely to be > about as successful as other examples of embedded video -- not successful at > all. There's apparently a moz mplayer plugin, but I have yet to see it work. Others seem to have been successful, though. > for editing, i suggest virtualdub (yet another windows app) it's AWESOME for > simple editing and very featureful for what it is. it even supports 3rd > party plugins. i also have a codec pack i downloaded a while back that > includes a lot of the best codecs available out there (divx 4/5, > windowsmedia, sorenson4 etc. etc.) so all i had to do was install it, open > the file in virtualdub, choose my codec (audio & video) and select 'save as > avi". Others have suggested various Linux packages, such as Cinelerra. Exporting really is that easy. :) Or you can use mencoder. ;) -- taa As an adolescent I aspired to lasting fame, I craved factual certainty, and I thirsted for a meaningful vision of human life - so I became a scientist. This is like becoming an archbishop so you can meet girls. -Matt Cartmill, anthropology professor and author (1943- ) /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 05:42:12 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 01:42:12 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <20040506032103.GB32600-7r3UYZMxfuqyvPIx3LBjwNHuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <4099427E.6090802@rogers.com> <20040506032103.GB32600@idiom.novusordo.net> Message-ID: <4099D034.90603@alteeve.com> Taavi Burns wrote: > On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 10:26:40PM -0400, Phillip Mills wrote: > >>On Wednesday, May 5, 2004, at 03:37 PM, Ilya Palagin wrote: >> >> >>>Of course, click 'Back' to go to parent, and loose all my selections >>>when I enter another subdir! >> >>Or use cookies (or some other session context) and save previous >>selections as if it were a shopping basket kind of application. I'm >>sure there are a variety of ways to approach the problem, but I was >>focussing on Perl resources. >> > > > As long as the user keeps pressing forward (i.e. clicking links instead > of hitting the "Back" button), keeping state between screens is trivial > using the perl CGI modules. It generally involves putting hidden values > in the form, so that the next time a link within that form is clicked, > those hidden values are sent along with the other visible form data > (i.e. the new input). Humm, I never thought about using cookies to track file selections, sure makes sense though. I am not too worried about a user using the "Back" and "Next" buttons because as you said, it will mess up the selections. I am sure it won't be hard for a user to get used to clicking on the [+] and [-] icon to the left of the file name or the filename itself to cycle the directory's display. I might also (have to) build it so that whenever -anything- is clicked while selecting files the changes are recorded. That might be cumbersome though if I need to use form for so many things. I don't know much about cookies because I haven't needed them up until now so I wonder how hard it would be to store changes there until the user selects some sort of "commit" option? The tricky part I haven't thought about thoroughly yet is how I am going to make it as easy as possible for the user to select everything they want. I will find out soon though because the first stage of the program is almost finished and that will be the next challenge. I am hoping to figure out a way to use selection boxes similar to the way file lists are generated in other graphical backup tools I have used in the past. Alas, -soooo- much work still to be done, so very little time to do it... :/ Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 06:31:35 2004 From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 02:31:35 -0400 Subject: Knoppix 3.4 Released Message-ID: <1083825095.28848.8.camel@linux.local> Check the mirrors. Knoppix 3.4 Official is out. I used ftp://ftp.mirror.ac.uk/sites/ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V3.4-2004-05-04-EN.iso and got 300k/sec -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ // Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 09:05:32 2004 From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 05:05:32 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API In-Reply-To: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: At 8:29 PM -0400 5/5/04, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > >I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, brought >into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, any >ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have not >found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are looking >at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying to >push the open source approach :) > AFAIK Bloomberg and Bridge are the only players in this game since Dow Jones dropped out. Don't know what the fees are but the data feeds are definitively not open source. Jim -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 11:59:04 2004 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 07:59:04 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <4099D034.90603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4099D034.90603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 01:42 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > That might be cumbersome though if I need to use form for so many > things. I don't know much about cookies because I haven't needed them > up until now so I wonder how hard it would be to store changes there > until the user selects some sort of "commit" option? In Java's J2EE scheme there's an abstraction of a session and its identifier. In practice, the mechanism determines whether to use cookies or URL rewriting as a way of tracking the user. Usually the information put into the cookie/URL is just a key, with the actual data stored on the server, somewhat transparently to the programmer's code. That way it doesn't matter how the user navigates as long as the session is maintained. I haven't played with Perl's CGI stuff in a couple of years, but I wonder if there's a module available with similar capabilities. It would seem like a reasonable thing to expect. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 13:48:06 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:48:06 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API Message-ID: Agree. My boss asked me to test a service provider. There was a 1.5 seconds delay in the "live" quote service. Below is its info. http://209.112.5.33/PCQCANQuoteWebService/PCQCANQuoteService.asmx http://www.pcquote.on.ca/ -----Original Message----- From: Zbigniew Koziol [mailto:zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] Sent: May 5, 2004 8:56 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Realtime stock API I doubt there is such thing around as "real time stock". Unless you pay good money to stock companies. If I am wrong - please let me know. I myself played for quite some time with these things by collecting data from web sites. But it would probably be illegal to display these data publicly. zb. On Wednesday 05 May 2004 20:29, you wrote: > Hi all, > > I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, brought > into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, any > ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have not > found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are looking > at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying to > push the open source approach :) > > Tia, > > Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 15:11:55 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 11:11:55 -0400 Subject: making posters in debian/kde Message-ID: <409A55BB.8080205@onlink.net> I want to make a poster for my business. I've never used graphics software. I've never used gimp and it didn't install with my beta sarge (I guess because we went with kde instead of Gnome. I have OO. I'm wondering what software (that I have) that is the easiest to make a poster in. I don't know if I can do this in Kpaint, OO, or whatever. I don't see a template for 'poster'. Someone did a music poster for me once and there were jazzy fonts you could choose from, coloured boxes you could move around -- that sort of thing. He might have made it on Visio unless I'm confusing that application with another. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 15:14:41 2004 From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:14:41 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19141136-9F70-11D8-85DA-00039310151E@axxent.ca> On Thursday, May 6, 2004, at 07:59 AM, Phillip Mills wrote: > I haven't played with Perl's CGI stuff in a couple of years, but I > wonder if there's a module available with similar capabilities. It > would seem like a reasonable thing to expect. Well, OK, I made myself really curious with that remark. Without having read all the details, something with the blindingly obvious :) name of CGI::Session looks like a good starting point if one is actually interested in the session management route. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 15:17:29 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:17:29 -0600 Subject: making posters in debian/kde In-Reply-To: <409A55BB.8080205-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <409A55BB.8080205@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040506151729.GC52312@idiom.novusordo.net> On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 11:11:55AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > I want to make a poster for my business. I've never used graphics > software. I've never used gimp and it didn't install with my beta sarge > (I guess because we went with kde instead of Gnome. I have OO. I'm > wondering what software (that I have) that is the easiest to make a The GIMP is a raster graphic staple, and works just fine with KDE. I think it just uses GTK+, and IIRC that G refers to GIMP, not Gnome, even though the latter also uses it. ;) > poster in. I don't know if I can do this in Kpaint, OO, or whatever. I > don't see a template for 'poster'. Someone did a music poster for me > once and there were jazzy fonts you could choose from, coloured boxes > you could move around -- that sort of thing. He might have made it on > Visio unless I'm confusing that application with another. You might try Scribus. It seems to be the desktop publishing program of choice on Linux at the moment. It uses QT, so is "more KDE friendly than the GIMP" if one can say that. It does serve an entirely differnt purpose than the GIMP, though. You'd probably be well advised to install both if you want to do some serious poster work. ;) -- taa What do you get when you cross and elephant with a mountain climber? You can't. A mountain climber is a scalar. /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 15:33:47 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 09:33:47 -0600 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <4099D034.90603-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4099427E.6090802@rogers.com> <20040506032103.GB32600@idiom.novusordo.net> <4099D034.90603@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040506153347.GD52312@idiom.novusordo.net> On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 01:42:12AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >As long as the user keeps pressing forward (i.e. clicking links instead > >of hitting the "Back" button), keeping state between screens is trivial > >using the perl CGI modules. It generally involves putting hidden values > >in the form, so that the next time a link within that form is clicked, > >those hidden values are sent along with the other visible form data > >(i.e. the new input). > > Humm, I never thought about using cookies to track file selections, sure Hidden values in the form have nothing to do with cookies. Just FYI. CGI::Session sounds like it's what you want, though (as per another poster's suggestion) > I am sure it won't be hard for a user to get used to clicking on the [+] > and [-] icon to the left of the file name or the filename itself to > cycle the directory's display. I might also (have to) build it so that You might also be able to use some of the DHTML extensions to load the entire tree (or at least more of the tree) at once, and then just allow the user to adjust his view of that tree without having to reload the whole thing every time. How well that would work depends on how fast the 'net connection will be and how big the tree is to begin with. > whenever -anything- is clicked while selecting files the changes are > recorded. That might be cumbersome though if I need to use form for so > many things. I don't know much about cookies because I haven't needed Not really. You just set hidden variables as appropriate. You can set new variables at a whim, and quite programatically, even to the point of emulating an array by using one var for a count, and then vars with some sequential naming scheme (itemCount, and item0, item1 ... item42). > them up until now so I wonder how hard it would be to store changes > there until the user selects some sort of "commit" option? As I said, trivial. :) Cookies or CGI::Session might require you to do less footwork of your own, though. -- taa Clarity of mind (C_m) is affected by any number, but by far the most important is horniness, which might be designated by \sigma, for obvious anatomical reasons that Waterhouse finds amusing at this stage of his emotional development. - Neal Stephenson, "Cryptonomicon" /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 15:43:46 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 11:43:46 -0400 Subject: Off-topic: DSL connection Message-ID: <200405061143.46739.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Hi, Sorry for this off-topic email, but I have noticed that a number of people on the list use istop as their provider. I am also using them (for a few days only), but I have a problem that maybe others have also encountered and sovled. I can't seem to keep to my modem "synchronized" (if that's the correct term) for an extended period. And when I lose the connection, it is gone for hours at a time. For example, yesterday it was down in the morning, but then the modem synchronized in the early afternoon and stayed up until around 8:00 at which time it went down again, until around midnight. Before you ask, I have filters on every phone jack. Presumably this has little to do with istop themselves, and more to do with my modem and the local Bell office/center that the modem is trying to synch with. Has anyone encountered something like this? Any suggestions? Thanks for any insight. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 16:23:06 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:23:06 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <4099427E.6090802-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <42D0FDF0-9E8B-11D8-AA1B-00039310151E@axxent.ca> <4099427E.6090802@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040506162306.GB12228@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 07:37:34PM +0000, Ilya Palagin wrote: > Yes, the book is great. But the problem is that this script won't be > usable due to web interface limitations (to fix it, extensive > java-scripting is required). For example, I entered into a subdirectory > and clicked of file names. Then I want to visit another subdir to select > more files. What do I do? Of course, click 'Back' to go to parent, and > loose all my selections when I enter another subdir! > > On my opinion, another solution aside this script is required. I would > recommend ftp in this case. Well trying to do something that explicitly involves maintaining the state of something, is inherently going to requrie some dirty messy coding to be done over http which was meant to be stateless. There won't be a clean solution (some people would use java since it can be stateful. Or perhaps flash with remote scripting. I have seen some real nice flash remote scripting stuff done with php for browsing photo albums.) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 16:34:41 2004 From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:34:41 -0400 Subject: making posters in debian/kde In-Reply-To: <409A55BB.8080205-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <409A55BB.8080205@onlink.net> Message-ID: > From: Chris Aitken > Subject: [TLUG]: making posters in debian/kde > > I want to make a poster for my business. I've never used graphics > software. I made a large poster using software that comes with Debian ... LaTeX. Because the PDF contains vector draw information, the final PDF is acceptable to be sent to print shop that prints at 1200dpi or possibly more. You can check out the source and PDF here: http://www.unihedron.com/projects/spectrum/ If you use Gimp (or any bitmap software), be aware of the final printing resolution. Cheers, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 16:41:45 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 12:41:45 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <409829D1.2070904-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200405061241.45280.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 19:40, Madison Kelly wrote: > ? ?Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can > hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think > might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? > Thanks!! I am wondering why you're choosing to do this through a web interface? What is the actual required goal? A web interface may be the most appropriate way to do this but I don't enough information to know this for sure, there are many ways to skin a cat. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 17:57:29 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:57:29 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <409A7C89.4080702@sympatico.ca> Phillip Mills wrote: > > I haven't played with Perl's CGI stuff in a couple of years, but I > wonder if there's a module available with similar capabilities. It > would seem like a reasonable thing to expect. Yes, CGI::Application's sessioning module does this, and runs transparently across CGI or mod_perl. It's good. It wouldn't surprise me if there were something to do almost this on CPAN, or described on Perlmonks. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From skuznets-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 17:10:37 2004 From: skuznets-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 13:10:37 -0400 Subject: Off-topic: DSL connection In-Reply-To: <200405061143.46739.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200405061143.46739.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200405061310.37825.skuznets@blueprint.org> hi Fred, This morning I got the same issue. It's not an issue of Istop, but issue of Bell. You can call to tech-support of Istop and open a ticket with Bell thru them as I did. On May 6, 2004 11:43 am, Fred Nastos wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry for this off-topic email, but I have noticed that a number > of people on the list use istop as their provider. I am also using > them (for a few days only), but I have a problem that maybe > others have also encountered and sovled. > > I can't seem to keep to my modem "synchronized" (if that's the > correct term) for an extended period. And when I lose the > connection, it is gone for hours at a time. For example, > yesterday it was down in the morning, but then the modem > synchronized in the early afternoon and stayed up until around > 8:00 at which time it went down again, until around midnight. > > Before you ask, I have filters on every phone jack. > > Presumably this has little to do with istop themselves, and more > to do with my modem and the local Bell office/center that the > modem is trying to synch with. > > Has anyone encountered something like this? Any suggestions? > Thanks for any insight. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- All the Best! Sergey Kuznetsov ================== Senior software developer Blueprint Initiative Samuel Lunenfeld Research Institute Mount Sinai Hospital 522 University Ave. 9 floor Toronto, Canada Phone #: +1(416)596-8505 x 6343 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 18:17:51 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 14:17:51 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <20040506153347.GD52312-7r3UYZMxfuqyvPIx3LBjwNHuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <4099427E.6090802@rogers.com> <20040506032103.GB32600@idiom.novusordo.net> <4099D034.90603@alteeve.com> <20040506153347.GD52312@idiom.novusordo.net> Message-ID: <409A814F.1060702@alteeve.com> Thank you, both! I've bookmarked the CGI::Sessions link and will read it once I finish this one thing I am on. I also really like the idea of loading all of the data and then simply modifying it's view (a-la dhtml as you suggested or I think css can do this, too). The connection, though technically available anywhere, will probably be restricted to local machines using either IPTables, a login for the program, Apache restrictions of some combination of the above which will limit it to local LAN machines so speed shouldn't be a huge (bad pun!) problem. So many ideas! Thank you, all! (Though if you have more I am quite game.) Madison Taavi Burns wrote: > On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 01:42:12AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>>As long as the user keeps pressing forward (i.e. clicking links instead >>>of hitting the "Back" button), keeping state between screens is trivial >>>using the perl CGI modules. It generally involves putting hidden values >>>in the form, so that the next time a link within that form is clicked, >>>those hidden values are sent along with the other visible form data >>>(i.e. the new input). >> >>Humm, I never thought about using cookies to track file selections, sure > > > Hidden values in the form have nothing to do with cookies. Just FYI. > > CGI::Session sounds like it's what you want, though (as per another poster's > suggestion) > > >>I am sure it won't be hard for a user to get used to clicking on the [+] >>and [-] icon to the left of the file name or the filename itself to >>cycle the directory's display. I might also (have to) build it so that > > > You might also be able to use some of the DHTML extensions to load the > entire tree (or at least more of the tree) at once, and then just allow > the user to adjust his view of that tree without having to reload the > whole thing every time. How well that would work depends on how fast the > 'net connection will be and how big the tree is to begin with. > > >>whenever -anything- is clicked while selecting files the changes are >>recorded. That might be cumbersome though if I need to use form for so >>many things. I don't know much about cookies because I haven't needed > > > Not really. You just set hidden variables as appropriate. You can set > new variables at a whim, and quite programatically, even to the point > of emulating an array by using one var for a count, and then vars with > some sequential naming scheme (itemCount, and item0, item1 ... item42). > > >>them up until now so I wonder how hard it would be to store changes >>there until the user selects some sort of "commit" option? > > > As I said, trivial. :) Cookies or CGI::Session might require you to > do less footwork of your own, though. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 18:27:00 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 14:27:00 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <200405061241.45280.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> <200405061241.45280.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <409A8374.6020308@alteeve.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 19:40, Madison Kelly wrote: > > >> Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can >>hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think >>might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? >>Thanks!! > > > I am wondering why you're choosing to do this through a web interface? > > What is the actual required goal? > > A web interface may be the most appropriate way to do this but I don't enough > information to know this for sure, there are many ways to skin a cat. Humm, I'll probably catch flak for this but my personal philosophy is that making everything accessible via a web front end is both the best way to go and the future trend of program interface. Add to that the fact that a user will likely feel less apprehention is the feel of the program is similar to a web page, something even novice users use daily. Also the ability to make something available remotely and independant of the client OS is very, very attractive. I realize that right now it probably isn't the easiest possible root but there are also practical benefits, too. Some of the client machines are Linux, some are Windows and some are Mac. This allows me to roll out a Linux-based solution without forcing the user to switch OS or even learn how to use Linux, for that matter (though I would love for them to learn anyway I don't want to push the issue). If they do switch later then there is absolutely no learning curve for them on this program. Maybe my logic is flawed but it's what I have to work with ;). Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 20:04:04 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 16:04:04 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <409A8374.6020308-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> <200405061241.45280.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <409A8374.6020308@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200405061604.04818.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 06 May 2004 14:27, Madison Kelly wrote: > Fraser Campbell wrote: > > On Tuesday 04 May 2004 19:40, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can > >>hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think > >>might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? > >>Thanks!! > > > > I am wondering why you're choosing to do this through a web interface? > > > > What is the actual required goal? > > > > A web interface may be the most appropriate way to do this but I don't > > enough information to know this for sure, there are many ways to skin a > > cat. > > Humm, I'll probably catch flak for this but my personal philosophy is > that making everything accessible via a web front end is both the best > way to go and the future trend of program interface. Add to that the > fact that a user will likely feel less apprehention is the feel of the > program is similar to a web page, something even novice users use daily. > Also the ability to make something available remotely and independant of > the client OS is very, very attractive. > > I realize that right now it probably isn't the easiest possible root but > there are also practical benefits, too. Some of the client machines are > Linux, some are Windows and some are Mac. This allows me to roll out a > Linux-based solution without forcing the user to switch OS or even learn > how to use Linux, for that matter (though I would love for them to learn > anyway I don't want to push the issue). If they do switch later then > there is absolutely no learning curve for them on this program. > > Maybe my logic is flawed but it's what I have to work with ;). Your logic might be flawed but since you didn't answer my questions how can I tell ;-) ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 21:11:13 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 17:11:13 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001a01c433ae$ad423560$6401a8c0@main> AFAIK Bloomberg and Bridge are the only players in this game since Dow Jones dropped out.? Don't know what the fees are but the data feeds are definitively not open source. Jim Thanks for letting me know Jim, do you know of places which can give me data which is 15 minutes delayed? I think this is what we are going to end up using as opposed to real time. Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 21:17:50 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:17:50 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <200405061604.04818.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> <200405061241.45280.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <409A8374.6020308@alteeve.com> <200405061604.04818.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <409AAB7E.6080503@alteeve.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Thursday 06 May 2004 14:27, Madison Kelly wrote: > > >>Fraser Campbell wrote: >> >>>On Tuesday 04 May 2004 19:40, Madison Kelly wrote: >>> >>>> Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can >>>>hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think >>>>might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? >>>>Thanks!! >>> >>>I am wondering why you're choosing to do this through a web interface? >>> >>>What is the actual required goal? >>> >>>A web interface may be the most appropriate way to do this but I don't >>>enough information to know this for sure, there are many ways to skin a >>>cat. >> >>Humm, I'll probably catch flak for this but my personal philosophy is >>that making everything accessible via a web front end is both the best >>way to go and the future trend of program interface. Add to that the >>fact that a user will likely feel less apprehention is the feel of the >>program is similar to a web page, something even novice users use daily. >>Also the ability to make something available remotely and independant of >>the client OS is very, very attractive. >> >>I realize that right now it probably isn't the easiest possible root but >>there are also practical benefits, too. Some of the client machines are >>Linux, some are Windows and some are Mac. This allows me to roll out a >>Linux-based solution without forcing the user to switch OS or even learn >>how to use Linux, for that matter (though I would love for them to learn >>anyway I don't want to push the issue). If they do switch later then >>there is absolutely no learning curve for them on this program. >> >>Maybe my logic is flawed but it's what I have to work with ;). > > > Your logic might be flawed but since you didn't answer my questions how can I > tell ;-) ;-) Sheesh, tough crowd! Okay, in essence I am writting a program that used an external hard drive chassis connected via USB2.0 and supporting removable drive carriers. I've pretty much finish building in sanity checks, safety measures and the hardware scanning code so that I can find my partitions. This allows the user to select which partition will be a source (thus only ever used read-only) and destination (used read/write). Once the source and destinations are defined I want the user to then be able to list the files and folders on the source to be backed up and then when ready copy said files to an available destination partition (and clearing space on the destination when needed). Conversly I want the user to be able to search for backed-up files while media is on or offline and report what matches are stored where and their particulars. Then from either the search results or from a manual browse of the files and directories on the destination media build a list of files to recover. Now, the immidiate user has a Linux server (Samba PDC, etc) but they themselves don't have a lot of Linux experience (or technical experience on any OS for that matter). So, My plan in using the web front end was to provide a familiar (and therefor comfortable) front end that can also be accessed from the workstation of the person who will be responsible for the backups without them needed to physically go to the server (which is in an ackward place) except to swap media. This would also make it easy to help the client remotely when needed by opening a temporary port into Apache through the firewall and then loggin in myself. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 21:27:07 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:27:07 -0400 Subject: Static IP In-Reply-To: References: <20040505181218.49351.qmail@web50603.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <409AADAB.3080400@sympatico.ca> talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: >On Wed, 5 May 2004, hui xu wrote: > > > >>Thanks for everybody's help. I have checked istop.com web, but I got a new questions. It seems that I have to use telephone line +modem+filter to build a hi-speed internet with static ip. If what I am understanding is right, I got the following questions: >> >>1. how can a telephone achieve 300M/800K speed? >> >> > >Well, to be pedantic, it's the copper that's achieving that speed, not the >phone itself. And I think the numbers are 3Mbps/800Kbps at the top end. >300Mbps would be lovely but I think I'd want to see some proof. > > 3Mbps is not at all the top end, that's just what's being offered now for internet DSL service (maybe that's what you meant). DSL is capable of much higher speeds, but with reduced reach. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 21:35:42 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 17:35:42 -0400 Subject: Linux In Two Cities Message-ID: <409AAFAE.1000003@sympatico.ca> http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=55480 This article is a few days old and I thought someone would have mentioned it by now, but since no one has, maybe it isn't widely known - so I thought I'd pass it on. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 22:02:09 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:02:09 -0400 Subject: Linux In Two Cities In-Reply-To: <409AAFAE.1000003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <409AAFAE.1000003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040506220209.GA9325@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 05:35:42PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote: > http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=55480 > > This article is a few days old and I thought someone would have > mentioned it by now, but since no one has, maybe it isn't widely known - > so I thought I'd pass it on. Thanks for the link. I've heard talk about Calgary at RWL show. And, My sense was that it was about Oracle and HP, really. But, Toronto Children's division, it's closer to home. For ordinary office/web/email stuffs, Linux is ideal. -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 22:15:13 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:15:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Talk May 11 Novell and Linux Message-ID: Date: May 11, 2004 Time: 7:30pm Location: Galbraith Building, U of T For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ Room: GB244 Speaker: Dan Chase (Novell) Topic: Novell and Linux Dan is a guest speaker from Novell who will be coming to TLUG to speak about Novell and its involvement with Linux. Robert Brockway TLUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 22:27:22 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 18:27:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Linux In Two Cities In-Reply-To: <20040506220209.GA9325-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409AAFAE.1000003@sympatico.ca> <20040506220209.GA9325@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 6 May 2004, William Park wrote: > Children's division, it's closer to home. For ordinary office/web/email > stuffs, Linux is ideal. Yep, and the article hit the nail on the head on many important points. For a long time I've listend to non-technical users and tried to get a better idea from them why they did not like Linux on the desktop, even when it could be demonstrated that it has the apps they need (eg, in an office environment). A big part of the reason, it seems to me, is that users expect the computer to look, feel and act like MS-Windows. Anything else is wrong and strange. I have unfortunately concluded that most people do not go out and look for "what works for me" but rather they look for "what looks like MS-Windows". Nothing looks more like MS-Windows than MS-Windows does, so everything else is behind the 8-ball to start with. This will be a difficult hurdle to overcome but I feel we'll do it in the end. Times are changing, just slowly. If people want to use MS-Windows because it really is more useful for them, then by all means they should go ahead. Unfortunately the MS monopoly has meant that most non-techs (and many techs) have had only limited exposure to alternatives so they don't really know how MS-Windows compares and it has also meant that the use of MS-Windows has been forced on many of those who do not wish to use it. I find the MS-Windows interface klunky and an impedement to getting useful work done. I claim the right to use whatever I want on the desktop. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 6 19:36:30 2004 From: ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Thu, 06 May 2004 19:36:30 +0000 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <409A8374.6020308-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> <200405061241.45280.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <409A8374.6020308@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <409A93BE.1050500@rogers.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > Fraser Campbell wrote: > >> On Tuesday 04 May 2004 19:40, Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> >>> Does anyone either know of a similar script that does this that I can >>> hack up and study or does anyone have any helpful advice they think >>> might help me if I do end up having to write this from the ground up? >>> Thanks!! >> >> >> >> I am wondering why you're choosing to do this through a web interface? >> >> What is the actual required goal? >> >> A web interface may be the most appropriate way to do this but I don't >> enough information to know this for sure, there are many ways to skin >> a cat. > > > Humm, I'll probably catch flak for this but my personal philosophy is > that making everything accessible via a web front end is both the best > way to go and the future trend of program interface. Add to that the It isn't always true. Think about a directory with a few thousand files. Just handling the list of selections will occupy a lot of memory, and each update of this file list will be slow even in LAN. > fact that a user will likely feel less apprehention is the feel of the > program is similar to a web page, something even novice users use daily. > Also the ability to make something available remotely and independant of > the client OS is very, very attractive. > > I realize that right now it probably isn't the easiest possible root but > there are also practical benefits, too. Some of the client machines are > Linux, some are Windows and some are Mac. This allows me to roll out a Samba + native file browsers will be the best -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 02:54:54 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Thu, 6 May 2004 22:54:54 -0400 Subject: making posters in debian/kde In-Reply-To: <409A55BB.8080205-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <409A55BB.8080205@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040506225454.0cba71bc.hgibson@eol.ca> On Thu, 06 May 2004 11:11:55 -0400 Chris Aitken wrote: > I want to make a poster for my business. I've never used graphics > software. I've never used gimp and it didn't install with my beta sarge > (I guess because we went with kde instead of Gnome. I have OO. I'm > wondering what software (that I have) that is the easiest to make a > poster in. I don't know if I can do this in Kpaint, OO, or whatever. I > don't see a template for 'poster'. Someone did a music poster for me > once and there were jazzy fonts you could choose from, coloured boxes > you could move around -- that sort of thing. He might have made it on > Visio unless I'm confusing that application with another. > > Chris Chris, KDE should not be an obstacle for the GIMP. As an alternate, take a look at Xfig. This is a vector graphics program, so it should look good, even when you print large. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 04:45:42 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 00:45:42 -0400 Subject: Realtime stock API In-Reply-To: <001701c43309$8cdca850$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <20040506004129.A0F6117C30D@smtp.istop.com> <001701c43309$8cdca850$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <20040507044542.GA946@m450> On Wed, May 05, 2004 at 09:29:12PM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote > We have also been looking into 15 minute delayed quotes, as it > seems much more affordable and obtainable. Any ideas / resources > for slightly delayed quotes? I would be looking to spend something > in the $2-500US a month range for the datafeed/API See attached script "quotes". It pulls 20-minute delayed data from finance.yahoo.com, spits out results, in colour yet. To get IBM or MSFT ./quotes IBM ./quotes MSFT -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -------------- next part -------------- #!/bin/sh #getscox - Free to use and modify!! # Colors for output red='\E[31;40m' green='\E[32;40m' white='\E[37;40m' yellow='\E[33;40m' bold="\033[1m" normal="\033[0m" lynx -source "http://finance.yahoo.com/d/quotes.csv?s=${1}&f=sl1d1t1c1ohgv&e=.csv" > scox.csv ARRAY=(`sed s/[,\"]/\ /g < scox.csv`) COMPANY=${ARRAY[0]} SIGN=${ARRAY[4]:0:1} if [ "$SIGN" = "+" ]; then COLOR=$green else COLOR=$red fi echo -en $bold"Company" $yellow$COMPANY$normal echo -en $bold "Date" '\E[33;40m'${ARRAY[2]}$normal echo -e $bold "Time" $yellow${ARRAY[3]}$normal echo -en $bold"Current" $yellow${ARRAY[1]}$normal echo -en $bold "Change"$COLOR ${ARRAY[4]}$normal echo -e $bold "Volume"$yellow ${ARRAY[8]}$normal echo -en $bold"Open" $yellow${ARRAY[5]}$normal echo -e $bold "High" $yellow${ARRAY[6]}$normal tput sgr0 From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 07:05:14 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 03:05:14 -0400 Subject: Linux In Two Cities In-Reply-To: References: <409AAFAE.1000003@sympatico.ca> <20040506220209.GA9325@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040507070514.GA2440@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, May 06, 2004 at 06:27:22PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > I have unfortunately concluded that most people do not go out and look for > "what works for me" but rather they look for "what looks like MS-Windows". Taking one more step... "because it's what I use at work." Also, you can buy printer and other peripherals, and just hook it up and insert CD. But, for office environment, where boss decides what to install, Linux is viable option. Money saving is real, but evidently not sufficient to offset other factors. I don't think this is going to change, until managers are really squeezed on budget or their jobs. :-) -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 15:08:13 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C.Russell) Date: Fri, 7 May 2004 11:08:13 -0400 Subject: Powerplay Vs (LinuxDA PDA) Message-ID: <20040507150813.XGLS10064.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> I saw one of these in Futureshop yesterday. There's virtually nothing about them on the web, except some early users of the first LinuxDA machine having issues with the supplier. Anyone tried one? They're hardly state-of-the-art, but most PDAs do far too much for my needs. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 15:53:39 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 11:53:39 -0400 Subject: Powerplay Vs (LinuxDA PDA) In-Reply-To: <20040507150813.XGLS10064.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net-GWWKLdnxQps/MCZexUuWkuTW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040507150813.XGLS10064.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@mxmta.bellnexxia.net> Message-ID: <20040507155340.B6576407B@cbbrowne.com> > I saw one of these in Futureshop yesterday. There's virtually nothing > about them on the web, except some early users of the first LinuxDA > machine having issues with the supplier. > > Anyone tried one? They're hardly state-of-the-art, but most PDAs do > far too much for my needs. They don't interoperate with any Linux "PDA desktop" software, so that the PalmOS "syncing" options provided with pilot-link, JPilot, KPilot, and such do not exist there. The only value I could see in getting one of these units is that they are about the cheapest way of having a PDA that can play MP3s on SD cards... -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "ntlug.org") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/spiritual.html I'm as confused as a baby in a topless bar. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 17:48:07 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 07 May 2004 13:48:07 -0400 Subject: Linux In Two Cities In-Reply-To: References: <409AAFAE.1000003@sympatico.ca> <20040506220209.GA9325@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: Robert Brockway writes: > On Thu, 6 May 2004, William Park wrote: > > > Children's division, it's closer to home. For ordinary office/web/email > > stuffs, Linux is ideal. [snip] > I have unfortunately concluded that most people do not go out and look for > "what works for me" but rather they look for "what looks like MS-Windows". While I mostly agree with you, the problem with this logic is that each new version of Windows is quite different from previous ones and I often hear complaints from users in that regard. Yet they still go out and buy the "latest and greatest". I think the reality is that people are more influenced by Microsoft's marketing than they care to admit and there's a comfort level in having what their friends and neighbours have. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 22:07:44 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:07:44 -0400 Subject: making posters in debian/kde In-Reply-To: <409A55BB.8080205-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <409A55BB.8080205@onlink.net> Message-ID: <409C08B0.8030006@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, You can (and probably should) use more than one program to create a poster. The choice of program depends on the complexity of the poster. I find that OpenOffice.org Draw is perfect for any other layout work. If you just want to use text, shapes (even some 3D ones) and other "simple" graphics (by simple I mean no glows, special shadows, etc.) OpenOffice.org Draw should do it just fine. You can use The Gimp to draw more complex shapes or edit Photos to use in the poster and then add them into the OO Draw document. If the poster is going to be mostly photographs, or use lots of color/shades, it may be best to do it in The GIMP. Beware: at even at print resolutions (300+ DPI) a raster file can get very large (in the Gigabyte range) if the poster is big (like over 50cm in size). So I would recommend doing as much as possible in a vector program like OODraw or XFig or whatever else. As far as fonts go, you will just have to search for them on the net or something. OO Draw will use any standard fonts. Chris Aitken wrote: > I want to make a poster for my business. I've never used graphics > software. I've never used gimp and it didn't install with my beta sarge > (I guess because we went with kde instead of Gnome. I have OO. I'm > wondering what software (that I have) that is the easiest to make a > poster in. I don't know if I can do this in Kpaint, OO, or whatever. I > don't see a template for 'poster'. Someone did a music poster for me > once and there were jazzy fonts you could choose from, coloured boxes > you could move around -- that sort of thing. He might have made it on > Visio unless I'm confusing that application with another. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD4DBQFAnAjARreNkzrRRLQRAiNfAJ94ElXzNRVIQdOJoqW0ZSzfREIEPACY4chR thK+QlJInHQOB5JCZRgUqA== =NBT8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 22:46:56 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 18:46:56 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <409A8374.6020308-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> <200405061241.45280.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <409A8374.6020308@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <409C11E0.8010608@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Madison Kelly wrote: > Add to that the > fact that a user will likely feel less apprehention is the feel of the > program is similar to a web page, something even novice users use daily. > Also the ability to make something available remotely and independant of > the client OS is very, very attractive. How about a Java based interface? I think someone suggested Java already, but I'll add this: Webmin has a very powerful Java-based file browser. Perhaps it can be adapted to suit your needs. > > I realize that right now it probably isn't the easiest possible root but > there are also practical benefits, too. Some of the client machines are > Linux, some are Windows and some are Mac. This allows me to roll out a As Ilya suggested, using a Samba interface is a good option. If your clients use the newer Mac OS (not sure the version) it uses samba internally so it should have no problems with windows shares. > Linux-based solution without forcing the user to switch OS or even learn > how to use Linux, for that matter (though I would love for them to learn > anyway I don't want to push the issue). If they do switch later then > there is absolutely no learning curve for them on this program. There are many different cross-platform languages out there. I think that with something such as backups which requires atomic operations (consistency), it would be best to use some sort of client-side interface (or do LOTS of checks and "Are you sure?" pages). - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAnBHlRreNkzrRRLQRAm9XAJ9iYSrJCXg4jCwPp7fIBkQn7yNuTQCfboKC aM76MP50shw2hy4wkIlHZvM= =u/vS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 7 23:24:55 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 07 May 2004 19:24:55 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <409C11E0.8010608-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409829D1.2070904@alteeve.com> <200405061241.45280.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <409A8374.6020308@alteeve.com> <409C11E0.8010608@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <409C1AC7.6090602@alteeve.com> Anton Markov wrote: > There are many different cross-platform languages out there. > > I think that with something such as backups which requires atomic > operations (consistency), it would be best to use some sort of > client-side interface (or do LOTS of checks and "Are you sure?" pages). The good majority of the program code is sanity checks and I assume almost nothingso far as where things "should" be. As for Java, well, I have never been a fan of it myself because it has always seemed very cumbersom and I also don't like the idea of the client needing a Java VM. On top of that, later on I want to make sure that it renders as best as possible in a text browser for surevers without X and I don't think Java would allow that. I may get stuck though and have to go Java or something similar but I am going to do my best to avoid it. I was hoping to be playing with the browser by this point but the sanity checking and partition discovery and assigning portion has taken me quite a while. I will report what route I end up taking if anyone is interested. Thanks again for all the ideas and comments. I am sure that I will soon be back with more questions once I get to the browser stage! :) Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 11:53:59 2004 From: ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org (Ozymandias) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 07:53:59 -0400 Subject: Real time stock API In-Reply-To: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <002701c43301$2d5ba0a0$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <200405080754.03632.ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> I would talk to someone at Thompson Financial or CGI. Thompson recently bought the "StarQuote" product from CGI, and it provides real time feeds from all the major North American exchanges. The software/data feeds were developed by the former Star Data, which CGI acquired two years back. I do not know for certain, but I THINK they can provide feeds to clients with out the need for the StarQuote software package. If you are in Canada, they these are the people to try dealing with. They have something like 85% of the Canadian real-time quote market. Disclaimer: I am a current employee for CGI, but am not directly involved in the StarQuote operations, which as mentioned, have been sold to Thompson Financial. Lance Nichols On Wednesday 05 May 2004 20:29, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Hi all, > > I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, brought > into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, any > ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have not > found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are looking > at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying to > push the open source approach :) > > Tia, > > Sid -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: signature URL: From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 01:51:16 2004 From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 21:51:16 -0400 Subject: Real time stock API In-Reply-To: <200405080754.03632.ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw@public.gmane.org> References: <200405080754.03632.ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> Message-ID: <016a01c43568$213d4170$6401a8c0@main> Thanks for getting in touch. This is for a client in the US, I would like to find something that is delayed by 15 minutes because it is going to be a lot cheaper from what I gather. Sid > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Ozymandias > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 7:54 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Real time stock API > > I would talk to someone at Thompson Financial or CGI. Thompson recently > bought > the "StarQuote" product from CGI, and it provides real time feeds from all > the major North American exchanges. The software/data feeds were developed > by > the former Star Data, which CGI acquired two years back. I do not know for > certain, but I THINK they can provide feeds to clients with out the need > for > the StarQuote software package. If you are in Canada, they these are the > people to try dealing with. They have something like 85% of the Canadian > real-time quote market. > > Disclaimer: I am a current employee for CGI, but am not directly involved > in > the StarQuote operations, which as mentioned, have been sold to Thompson > Financial. > > Lance Nichols > > > On Wednesday 05 May 2004 20:29, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, brought > > into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, any > > ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have not > > found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are looking > > at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying to > > push the open source approach :) > > > > Tia, > > > > Sid -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 02:35:03 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 22:35:03 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... Message-ID: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Hiya, I recently built a kernel for my Debian laptop, and it hasn't turned out the way I was hoping. On boot I get a bunch of errors along this line: modprobe: Can't open dependencies file /lib/modules/2.4.26/modules.dep (No such file or directory) I looked, and no, that directory isn't there. Here's what I did when compiling the kernel: make menuconfig make dep make bzImage make modules make modules_install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-new Then I reconfigure my bootloader, making sure to keep the last good configuration as a backup. make modules install seemed to work just fine, but *something* went wrong. The errors that I see like this in Google are related to running make modules install or running a particularly wonky Unstable version. Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From alain-Cli3VEtMc4ustjuMBgEEQA at public.gmane.org Sat May 8 23:05:46 2004 From: alain-Cli3VEtMc4ustjuMBgEEQA at public.gmane.org (Alain Maisonneuve) Date: Sat, 08 May 2004 19:05:46 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <20040509023503.GA1010-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1084057546.1212.2.camel@galaxy> Hey, what i would suggest you do is: make menuconfig make-kpkg cd .. dpkg -i (the kernel .deb) see what that does for you cheers, On Sat, 2004-05-08 at 22:35, William O'Higgins wrote: > Hiya, > > I recently built a kernel for my Debian laptop, and it hasn't turned out > the way I was hoping. On boot I get a bunch of errors along this line: > > modprobe: Can't open dependencies file /lib/modules/2.4.26/modules.dep > (No such file or directory) > > I looked, and no, that directory isn't there. > > Here's what I did when compiling the kernel: > > make menuconfig > make dep > make bzImage > make modules > make modules_install > cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-new > > Then I reconfigure my bootloader, making sure to keep the last good > configuration as a backup. > > make modules install seemed to work just fine, but *something* went > wrong. The errors that I see like this in Google are related to running > make modules install or running a particularly wonky Unstable version. > Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 03:53:43 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Sat, 8 May 2004 23:53:43 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <1084057546.1212.2.camel-f4BICcYK2H8@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1084057546.1212.2.camel@galaxy> Message-ID: <20040509035343.GB1038@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, May 08, 2004 at 07:05:46PM -0400, Alain Maisonneuve wrote: >Hey, > >what i would suggest you do is: > >make menuconfig >make-kpkg >cd .. >dpkg -i (the kernel .deb) > >see what that does for you Last time I tried this what I got was a computer that wouldn't boot, and was in fact so badly borked that rerunning Lilo from a rescue disk didn't repair the problem. I am unwilling to re-attempt building a kernel the "Debian way" without some significant hand-holding. Thanks for the suggestion though. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 11:45:32 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 07:45:32 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <20040509023503.GA1010-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <409E19DC.4040807@canada.com> William O'Higgins wrote: >make menuconfig >make dep >make bzImage >make modules >make modules_install >cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-new > > I do not know whether you forgot to mention it but I recommend to do a make mrproper before the make menuconfig especially if you have already compiled your kernel. I have noticed that, from time to time, the process has a weird behavior if you do not do that. Gilles -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 14:25:07 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 10:25:07 -0400 Subject: Javascript problem with Konqueror In-Reply-To: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405021223.41786.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200405091025.07520.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Hello everyone! First of all, thank you for all the helpful suggestions! I was able to figure out what the problem was with the script: the final "/ /-->" needs to be changed to "//-->" I sorted this out with the very helpful Javascript debugger in Mozilla. It's error messages were very clear. Brad On May 2, 2004 12:23, Brad Fonseca wrote: > Hi, > > I'm running Konqueror 3.1.4 on KDE 3.1.3 and I've run into a problem or > bug. I wrote up a webpage and included the following Javascript: > > > > at three points in the page. The purpose of it is to construct the href="mailto:...">blah tags to avoid spam bots from harvesting my email > from the web page. Keep in mind, I'm new to this so I wouldn't expect this > to be a silver bullet for spam or anything. Anyway, I got the following > error messages from Konqueror: > > khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error > at line 8 > khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error > at line 9 > khtml (jscript): WARNING: Script threw exception: SyntaxError: Parse error > at line 9 > > When I view the page, the script hasn't executed and there are "blank > spots" where there should be email links. However, when I open the page in > Opera 7.11, I have no problem getting the proper page with email links > intact. > > Am I dealing with a bug in Konqueror or is there something screwy with my > script? Does anyone know if there is a work-around for this? > > Regards, > > Brad Fonseca > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 14:30:11 2004 From: linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Brad Fonseca) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 10:30:11 -0400 Subject: Finding Information on CGI scripts written in Python Message-ID: <200405091030.11078.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Hello! I want to learn about and create cgi scripts, as written in Python. Is www.python.org the best place to go or is there a better site for this subject? My final goal is to write a cgi script that will convert a forms information to an email. I've tried googling the subject but the results are a bit vague. Regards, Brad Fonseca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 17:18:12 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:18:12 -0400 Subject: Finding Information on CGI scripts written in Python In-Reply-To: <200405091030.11078.linuxbrad-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405091030.11078.linuxbrad@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200405091318.12606.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Sunday 09 May 2004 10:30, Brad Fonseca wrote: > I want to learn about and create cgi scripts, as written in Python. Is > www.python.org the best place to go or is there a better site for this > subject? On your own system "pydoc cgi" probably better examples though at http://www.python.org/topics/web/basic-cgi.html -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 17:24:44 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:24:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <409E19DC.4040807-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <409E19DC.4040807@canada.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > William O'Higgins wrote: > > >make menuconfig > >make dep > >make bzImage > >make modules > >make modules_install > >cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-new > > > > > I do not know whether you forgot to mention it but I recommend to do a > make mrproper before the make menuconfig especially if you have already > compiled your kernel. I have noticed that, from time to time, the > process has a weird behavior if you do not do that. It's worth noting that a make mrproper will reset the .config to defaults. Doing this without restoring the .config from somewhere else and running make oldconfig will mean you are always building kernels with the default configuration only (specific drivers set, not optimized for your cpu subarchitecture, etc). Over some 10 years of compiling Linux kernels I've found I've rarely had to do make mrproper to fix problems. It is worth noting that if you change from one architecture type to another (i386 to SPARC for example) that a make mrproper is needed between the builds. I do notice that make clean is missing from the list above. When building kernels manually I normally use this sequence: make clean dep bzImage modules modules_install cp /usr/src/linux-x.yy.zz/System.map /boot/System.map-x.yy.zz cp /usr/src/linux-x.yy.zz/arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinux-x.yy.zz x.yy.zz represents a kernel version. The exact location that kernels are kept varies between systems. I don't bother putting kernels or links to kernels in the root directory anymore. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 17:27:08 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:27:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <409E19DC.4040807@canada.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 9 May 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > make clean dep bzImage modules modules_install > cp /usr/src/linux-x.yy.zz/System.map /boot/System.map-x.yy.zz > cp /usr/src/linux-x.yy.zz/arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinux-x.yy.zz Typo alert, make that: cp /usr/src/linux-x.yy.zz/arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-x.yy.zz ^^^ Why are these so much easier to spot after you've sent an email? :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 17:50:09 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 13:50:09 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <20040509035343.GB1038-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1084057546.1212.2.camel@galaxy> <20040509035343.GB1038@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200405091350.09755.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 08 May 2004 23:53, William O'Higgins wrote: > >what i would suggest you do is: > > > >make menuconfig > >make-kpkg > >cd .. > >dpkg -i (the kernel .deb) > > > >see what that does for you > > Last time I tried this what I got was a computer that wouldn't boot, and > was in fact so badly borked that rerunning Lilo from a rescue disk > didn't repair the problem. I am unwilling to re-attempt building a > kernel the "Debian way" without some significant hand-holding. Thanks > for the suggestion though. Not sure where you would have gone wrong but using Debian kernel packages works great for me. When I have to customise a kernel (for win4lin for example) I do this: apt-get install kernel-source-2.6.5 kernel-image-2.6.5-1-k7 cd /usr/src tar xvjf kernel-source-2.6.5.tar.bz2 cd kernel-source-2.6.5 # Installing the Debian kernel and copying it's config is unnecessary but # I like to use it as a safe starting point cp /boot/config-2.6.5-1-k7 .config # Apply my patches patch ????? < ????? make-kpkg --revision 1.0 --rootcmd fakeroot \ --append-to-version -win4lin-1-k7 --initrd kernel_image dpkg -i ../kernel-image-2.6.5-win4lin-1-k7_1.0_i386.deb Debian kernel packages automatically adjust your bootloader (unless you tell them not to). If you switch from a non-initrd kernel to one that does use an initrd then you'll bork your config unless you heed the warnings that it gives you. When you install a new kernel you should always have an older one around just in case, perhaps that's how you went wrong? I use grub as my bootloader so my /etc/kernel-img.conf looks like this: do_initrd = Yes postinst_hook = /sbin/update-grub postrm_hook = /sbin/update-grub do_bootloader = no Lots of people have different kernel configuration practises; modular/non-modular, optimised/not-optimised (i386/i686/???), support for all hardware under the sun/support only for installed hardware. I like the kitchen sink kernels and I like to use packaged kernels since few of my machines have compilers installed on them, of course if you don't like packages you can always tar up the kernel and modules and copy them around that way. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 20:31:02 2004 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sun, 09 May 2004 16:31:02 -0400 Subject: Mandrakesecure.net Message-ID: <409E9506.90402@iprimus.ca> Hello To any Mandrake users out there, I seem to be unable in the last three days to get onto www.mandrakesecure.net, to check up on security advisories, etc. I did a few google scans on the subject but nothing showed up. Has anyone heard anything, via the grapevine ? Clive -- Clive DaSilva CMA Home Tel: 416-421-2480 Cell: 416-560-8820 Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel 2.4.21 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org Sun May 9 14:16:52 2004 From: ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org (Ozymandias) Date: Sun, 9 May 2004 10:16:52 -0400 Subject: Real time stock API In-Reply-To: <016a01c43568$213d4170$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <016a01c43568$213d4170$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <200405091017.02053.ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> You are welcome. I'm just glad my first post to TLUG could have possibly been of some help. If your client is down in the US, Bloomburg is just about the only game in town, these days. They own a HUGE chunk of the brokerage business down there. On Saturday 08 May 2004 21:51, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Thanks for getting in touch. This is for a client in the US, I would > like to find something that is delayed by 15 minutes because it is going > to be a lot cheaper from what I gather. > > Sid > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of > > Ozymandias > > > Sent: Saturday, May 08, 2004 7:54 AM > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Real time stock API > > > > I would talk to someone at Thompson Financial or CGI. Thompson > > recently > > > bought > > the "StarQuote" product from CGI, and it provides real time feeds from > > all > > > the major North American exchanges. The software/data feeds were > > developed > > > by > > the former Star Data, which CGI acquired two years back. I do not know > > for > > > certain, but I THINK they can provide feeds to clients with out the > > need > > > for > > the StarQuote software package. If you are in Canada, they these are > > the > > > people to try dealing with. They have something like 85% of the > > Canadian > > > real-time quote market. > > > > Disclaimer: I am a current employee for CGI, but am not directly > > involved > > > in > > the StarQuote operations, which as mentioned, have been sold to > > Thompson > > > Financial. > > > > Lance Nichols > > > > On Wednesday 05 May 2004 20:29, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I am working on a project which requires real time stock data, > > brought > > > > into our program/site via an API. This is for a client in the US, > > any > > > > ideas where to look for this? I have been googling all day and have > > not > > > > found much yet. Is there an open source solution to this? We are > > looking > > > > at using the Jabber platform for part of the project as well. Trying > > to > > > > push the open source approach :) > > > > > > Tia, > > > > > > Sid > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: signature URL: From evan-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 04:40:22 2004 From: evan-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 00:40:22 -0400 Subject: Stores with laptop cases in GTA? Message-ID: <409F07B6.5070002@lpi.org> I'm looking for one or more stores with a decent selection of laptop cases. Any recommendations are appreciated. - Evan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 01:05:02 2004 From: ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 01:05:02 +0000 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <20040509023503.GA1010-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <409ED53E.4090304@rogers.com> William O'Higgins wrote: > Hiya, > > I recently built a kernel for my Debian laptop, and it hasn't turned out > the way I was hoping. On boot I get a bunch of errors along this line: > > modprobe: Can't open dependencies file /lib/modules/2.4.26/modules.dep > (No such file or directory) > > I looked, and no, that directory isn't there. > > Here's what I did when compiling the kernel: > > make menuconfig > make dep > make bzImage > make modules > make modules_install > cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-new > > Then I reconfigure my bootloader, making sure to keep the last good > configuration as a backup. > > make modules install seemed to work just fine, but *something* went > wrong. The errors that I see like this in Google are related to running > make modules install or running a particularly wonky Unstable version. > Any pointers would be appreciated. Thanks. Debian has a more convenient and safe way to compile kernels. See "Debian standard method" worked for me a few days ago, when I compiled 2.4.26. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 07:25:44 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 03:25:44 -0400 Subject: Trouble getting mozilla to play shoutcast streams Message-ID: <409F2E78.5020705@passport.ca> Hi, I just upgraded to Fedora Core 1 and am having trouble getting a Shoutcast stream to play via Mozilla. I've gone into the Mozilla (1.4.1) preferences and set MIME TYPE audio/x-scpls and EXTENSIONS pls OPEN WITH /usr/bin/xmms -e %F These settings work fine in Konquerer so I can't figure out what is wrong. Does anyone have any thoughts on this. When I click a stream in Mozilla I just go to a grey screen with location such as: http://www.shoutcast.com/sbin/shoutcast-playlist.pls?rn=5065&file=filename.pls XMMS doesn't launch at all. Thanks, Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 12:21:19 2004 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:21:19 -0400 Subject: Stores with laptop cases in GTA? In-Reply-To: <409F07B6.5070002-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org>; from evan-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 10, 2004 at 12:40:22AM -0400 References: <409F07B6.5070002@lpi.org> Message-ID: <20040510082119.A24626@ee.ryerson.ca> Staples (Front and Sherbourne) has some. Didn't examine them in detail. Peter On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 12:40:22AM -0400, Evan Leibovitch wrote: > I'm looking for one or more stores with a decent selection of laptop cases. > Any recommendations are appreciated. > > - Evan > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 13:08:02 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin Acton) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:08:02 -0400 Subject: Stores with laptop cases in GTA? In-Reply-To: <409F07B6.5070002-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org> References: <409F07B6.5070002@lpi.org> Message-ID: <1084194482.409f7eb238f00@mymail.yorku.ca> Quoting Evan Leibovitch : > I'm looking for one or more stores with a decent selection of laptop cases. > Any recommendations are appreciated. Got mine at The Bay for $20. I'm very happy with it. Sears probably have some too, but I prefer the Bay. Best Buy, Future Shop, Staples/Business Depot also have a lot, but the service people at those types of stores make me upset. I've also seen backpacks with laptop compartments at the strangest places... Ikea, Old Navy, etc. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 13:39:14 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 09:39:14 -0400 Subject: Stores with laptop cases in GTA? In-Reply-To: <20040510082119.A24626-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org> References: <409F07B6.5070002@lpi.org> <20040510082119.A24626@ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <409F8602.1000008@sympatico.ca> MEC has a useful selection of laptop case that don't look like the obviously oblong "please mug me" black bag. Maybe it's only me being a Glaswegian in Scarborough who would think about these things ... Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 14:03:27 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 08:03:27 -0600 Subject: Stores with laptop cases in GTA? In-Reply-To: <1084194482.409f7eb238f00-L/ZuoSt+y0q45YHtStHL6Q@public.gmane.org> References: <409F07B6.5070002@lpi.org> <1084194482.409f7eb238f00@mymail.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20040510140327.GA61261@idiom.novusordo.net> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 09:08:02AM -0400, Austin Acton wrote: > Quoting Evan Leibovitch : > > I'm looking for one or more stores with a decent selection of laptop cases. > > Any recommendations are appreciated. I got a protective bag for my 15" PowerBook from Tom Bihn's website (www.tombihn.com, who knew!), specifically the Monolith. Pricey, yes, but they had exactly what I wanted: a case to protect my laptop as it sat in my existing backpack, regardless of the heavy abuse I apply to said backpack. The laptop went to Europe with me and came back still in working order. ;) Hardly acceptable evidence, I know, but still. I prefer to think of it as insurance on an investment, just as a lock cable. -- taa Any government will work if authority and responsibility are equal and coordinate. This does not insure "good" government; it simply insures that it will work. But such governments are rare - most people want to run things but want no part of the blame. - Robert A. Heinlein /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 17:13:59 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 13:13:59 -0400 Subject: test - please ignore Message-ID: <409FB857.9000907@onlink.net> test - please ignore -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 21:27:55 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 17:27:55 -0400 Subject: Digicam and Linux question Message-ID: <20040510212102.3119A5D51@outbox.allstream.net> I have a need to automate the taking, grabbing and transmitting of single low res digital photos ... remote monitoring application. Any suggestions on inexpensive webcams which are Linux compatible? Software? Is it better to use remotely controllable digital camera? If so which would come with good Linux support? Thanks. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 10 23:43:38 2004 From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron L. Sonne) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 19:43:38 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes Message-ID: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> Hey all, I'm otherwise enjoying my new suse 9.1 setup, but I've got a problem with the nvidia drivers. I can't get 3d acceleration, and that's after following both SuSE and Nvidia's driver installation documentation. I've done this all by the book, I swear, and it still keeps bitching at me to install the nvidia stuff so I can enable 3d support. I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this. Feh. Regards, Byron Sonne -- For Good, return Good. For Evil, return Justice. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 00:38:14 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 20:38:14 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes In-Reply-To: <40A013AA.7030300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040510203814.161a431a.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Mon, 10 May 2004 19:43:38 -0400 Byron L. Sonne disseminated the following: > I'm otherwise enjoying my new suse 9.1 setup, but I've got a problem > with the nvidia drivers. > I can't get 3d acceleration, and that's after following both SuSE and > Nvidia's driver installation documentation. I've done this all by the > book, I swear, and it still keeps bitching at me to install the nvidia > stuff so I can enable 3d support. > > I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this. Feh. What driver does it show is being loaded in your /etc/X11/XF86Config-4? Should be under 'Section "Device"', 'Driver "nvidia"' -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.orderinchaos.org Kernel 2.4.22-21.tmb.1mdk Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (FiveStar) for i586 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 20:34:27 up 4 days, 7:01, 8 users, load average: 0.09, 0.03, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "True communication is possible only between equals, because inferiors are more consistently rewarded for telling their superiors pleasant lies than for telling the truth." -- The SNAFU Principle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 02:58:15 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 22:58:15 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <1084057546.1212.2.camel-f4BICcYK2H8@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1084057546.1212.2.camel@galaxy> Message-ID: <20040511025815.GA2136@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Sat, May 08, 2004 at 07:05:46PM -0400, Alain Maisonneuve wrote: >what i would suggest you do is: > >make menuconfig >make-kpkg >cd .. >dpkg -i (the kernel .deb) > >see what that does for you In desperation I decided to try again to build a kernel the "Debian way". I still have a problem, but it is slightly new. The previous problem was that there were no modules built in /lib/modules in spite of running "make modules" and "make modules install". Now, when I boot or try to modprobe I get errors like this: /msdos.o: unresolved symbol fat_dir_empty... etc The kernel boots just fine, and anything compiled into the kernel appears to be working all right, but the modules are borked. Something that is needed for module compilation is missing from this system. Any guesses what that might be? Thanks. -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 03:14:32 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Mon, 10 May 2004 23:14:32 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <20040511025815.GA2136-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1084057546.1212.2.camel@galaxy> <20040511025815.GA2136@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20040511031432.GB1945@smeagol> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 10:58:15PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > Something that is needed for module compilation is missing from this > system. Any guesses what that might be? Thanks. modutils for 2.4.x or mode-core-utils for 2.6 compiles IIRC. -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 10:05:50 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 06:05:50 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <20040511025815.GA2136-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1084057546.1212.2.camel@galaxy> <20040511025815.GA2136@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200405110605.50225.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 10 May 2004 22:58, William O'Higgins wrote: > In desperation I decided to try again to build a kernel the "Debian > way". ?I still have a problem, but it is slightly new. ?The previous > problem was that there were no modules built in /lib/modules in spite of > running "make modules" and "make modules install". You should run make-kpkg to build the kernel and dpkg -i to install it. You should not run make modules or make modules_install. I wouldn't expect that's the cause of your problem though. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 14:54:31 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 10:54:31 -0400 Subject: bash one-liners with multiple pipes Message-ID: <200405111054.31646.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> i don't have a lot of traffic on my blog, so i like to keep an xterm open to watch when some traffic actually does come in. i'd used "tail -f" for the longest time until i realised that i might be able to do some fun stuff with grep, sed & awk as well. unfortuneately though, while this works: tail /path/to/log/file | \ awk '{printf "%s %s\n", $1, $7}' | \ egrep -v "\.(jpg|gif|png|css)" | \ sed -e "s/&requestUrl=.*//" this doesn't: tail -f /path/to/log/file | \ awk '{printf "%s %s\n", $1, $7}' | \ egrep -v "\.(jpg|gif|png|css)" | \ sed -e "s/&requestUrl=.*//" so why is it that i can do a "tail", but not a "tail -f" in this case, but something as simple as: tail -f /path/to/log/file | egrep -v "jpg|png" ...does work? what'd i miss? thanks for any input. -- the great only appear great because we are on our knees - james connolly -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 15:04:06 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:04:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash one-liners with multiple pipes In-Reply-To: <200405111054.31646.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405111054.31646.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, daniel wrote: > ...unfortuneately though, while this works... > this doesn't: What does the latter do, or not do? "doesn't" is not very specific. :-) One problem with any attempt to run real-time output through pipes is that many programs buffer output that's going to a pipe, waiting until they have a full buffer before they actually write it out. You will still get the same output... eventually... but whether you get it *promptly* depends on little details, and is effectively unpredictable. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 15:40:34 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:40:34 -0400 Subject: bash one-liners with multiple pipes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405111140.34984.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 11, 2004 11:04 am, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2004, daniel wrote: > > ...unfortuneately though, while this works... > > this doesn't: > > What does the latter do, or not do? "doesn't" is not very specific. :-) heh. unfortuneatly, "doesn't" is about the best description i can give it. using a few simple tests like grepping out "jpg" and visiting the blog myself, produces no output -- even though i know that more stuff has been appended to the log that would normally appear. > One problem with any attempt to run real-time output through pipes is that > many programs buffer output that's going to a pipe, waiting until they > have a full buffer before they actually write it out. You will still get > the same output... eventually... but whether you get it *promptly* depends > on little details, and is effectively unpredictable. now this is new to me. i didn't know programs did this sort of thing. how can i find out if this is the case? the issue seems to come up whenever i pipe a 3rd process ie. "tail | awk | grep..." but since "tail | grep" seems to work, maybe there's some sort of environment variable i can set to *not* buffer the output? i'm stumbling around in the dark here. -- for every complex problem there is a simple solution and it's wrong. - unknown -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 15:53:31 2004 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 11:53:31 -0400 Subject: bash one-liners with multiple pipes In-Reply-To: <200405111140.34984.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405111140.34984.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <20040511155331.GA18409@sophocles> On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 11:40:34AM -0400, daniel wrote: > On May 11, 2004 11:04 am, Henry Spencer wrote: > > One problem with any attempt to run real-time output through pipes is that > > many programs buffer output that's going to a pipe, waiting until they > > have a full buffer before they actually write it out. You will still get > > the same output... eventually... but whether you get it *promptly* depends > > on little details, and is effectively unpredictable. > > now this is new to me. i didn't know programs did this sort of thing. how > can i find out if this is the case? the issue seems to come up whenever i > pipe a 3rd process ie. "tail | awk | grep..." but since "tail | grep" seems > to work, maybe there's some sort of environment variable i can set to *not* > buffer the output? i'm stumbling around in the dark here. Try adding the command fflush() to the beginning of the awk program. A quick "tail -f | awk | grep" on my syslog shows that it could work. fflush is supposed to flush all buffers and pipes. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 16:00:11 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 12:00:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash one-liners with multiple pipes In-Reply-To: <200405111140.34984.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405111140.34984.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 11 May 2004, daniel wrote: > > One problem with any attempt to run real-time output through pipes is that > > many programs buffer output that's going to a pipe, waiting until they > > have a full buffer before they actually write it out. You will still get > > the same output... eventually... but whether you get it *promptly* depends > > on little details, and is effectively unpredictable. > > now this is new to me. i didn't know programs did this sort of thing. The usual approach -- embedded in the standard libraries for many years -- is that output which is going to a terminal is unbuffered, but output going anywhere else is buffered. Unfortunately, processes in the middle of a pipeline don't know that the output at the *tail* of the pipeline is going to a terminal! > ...the issue seems to come up whenever i > pipe a 3rd process ie. "tail | awk | grep..." but since "tail | grep" seems > to work... As I noted, whether it works or not depends greatly on details. My guess would be that "tail -f" is deliberately overriding the library behavior, so *its* output is going out immediately. If there's only one more process in the pipeline, it's doing output to the terminal, so its output goes out immediately. But when you add another process in the middle... > maybe there's some sort of environment variable i can set to > *not* buffer the output? It would be nice, but I don't know of any such facility (not that I've gone looking at the innards to make sure). What you *can* do, possibly at some cost in convenience, is try to roll all the output processing into a single program. In particular, note that awk can do anything that grep and sed can do, so it might be possible (if a little cumbersome) to just do "tail | awk". Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 16:55:33 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 11 May 2004 12:55:33 -0400 Subject: bash one-liners with multiple pipes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Henry Spencer writes: > What you *can* do, possibly at some cost in convenience, is try to roll > all the output processing into a single program. In particular, note that > awk can do anything that grep and sed can do, so it might be possible (if > a little cumbersome) to just do "tail | awk". It doesn't solve the buffering problem but: tail -f /some/log | awk '$7 !~ /\.(gif|png|css|jpg)/ { sub("&requestUrl=.*", "", $7); print $1, $7 }' Should do it and it fixes a potential bug in his earlier example. The bug being that the first field [$1] is probably IP addresses but could also be domain names [such as i.am.a.gif.com ;)]. Even with fflush in awk, I still get the buffering. However, there's a bigger potential problem. Is his version of tail going to notice when his log file gets truncated and/or moved out of the way? Something to test for, at least. Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 17:03:20 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:03:20 -0400 Subject: Post-kernel-build woes... In-Reply-To: <20040511025815.GA2136-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org> References: <20040509023503.GA1010@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> <1084057546.1212.2.camel@galaxy> <20040511025815.GA2136@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20040511170320.GA9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 10:58:15PM -0400, William O'Higgins wrote: > In desperation I decided to try again to build a kernel the "Debian > way". I still have a problem, but it is slightly new. The previous > problem was that there were no modules built in /lib/modules in spite of > running "make modules" and "make modules install". You don't run make modules and make modules_install when you do it the debian way. you configure, and you run make-kpkg, and you run dpkg -i on the resulting .deb which will include all the modules for /lib/moules in the .deb > Now, when I boot or try to modprobe I get errors like this: > > /msdos.o: unresolved symbol fat_dir_empty... etc > > The kernel boots just fine, and anything compiled into the kernel > appears to be working all right, but the modules are borked. > > Something that is needed for module compilation is missing from this > system. Any guesses what that might be? Thanks. Was a previous build of the same version already installed? If so did you wipe the garbage from /lib/modules for the version before installing the debian one, or did you at least do an --append_to_version option to give it a unique name (and hence dirname) so that you don't get old and new modules mixed together? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 17:05:17 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:05:17 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes In-Reply-To: <40A013AA.7030300-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040511170517.GB9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 10, 2004 at 07:43:38PM -0400, Byron L. Sonne wrote: > I'm otherwise enjoying my new suse 9.1 setup, but I've got a problem > with the nvidia drivers. > I can't get 3d acceleration, and that's after following both SuSE and > Nvidia's driver installation documentation. I've done this all by the > book, I swear, and it still keeps bitching at me to install the nvidia > stuff so I can enable 3d support. > > I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this. Feh. I have it working great on Debian, but I can't help with it on suse given it's a different packaging system. I won't touch nvidia's installer given how much better the Debian packaging of it installs and manages things. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 17:47:11 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 13:47:11 -0400 Subject: bash one-liners with multiple pipes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405111347.11971.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 11, 2004 12:55 pm, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Henry Spencer writes: > > What you *can* do, possibly at some cost in convenience, is try to roll > > all the output processing into a single program. In particular, note > > that awk can do anything that grep and sed can do, so it might be > > possible (if a little cumbersome) to just do "tail | awk". > > It doesn't solve the buffering problem but: > > tail -f /some/log | awk '$7 !~ /\.(gif|png|css|jpg)/ { > sub("&requestUrl=.*", "", $7); > print $1, $7 > }' > > Should do it and it fixes a potential bug in his earlier example. > The bug being that the first field [$1] is probably IP addresses but could > also be domain names [such as i.am.a.gif.com ;)]. kickass. thanks so much. that's exactly what i'm looking for. i'll have to alias this as "tailblog" or something. > Even with fflush in awk, I still get the buffering. > > However, there's a bigger potential problem. Is his version of tail going > to notice when his log file gets truncated and/or moved out of the way? > Something to test for, at least. i'm not worried about this since (a) i don't rotate my logs and (b) it's just for when i feel like tailing it. if for some reason i decided to rotate the log, i'd just re-run the script. thanks so much. -- "And the true threats of the 21st century are the ability for some rogue leader to say to the United States, to Europe, to Russia herself, to Israel, don't you dare move, don't you dare try to express your freedom, otherwise we'll blow you up." George W. Bush July 20, 2001 BBC Interview -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 11 19:02:21 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 15:02:21 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes In-Reply-To: <20040511170517.GB9500-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> <20040511170517.GB9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040511150221.5ea51f4b.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:05:17 -0400 Lennart Sorensen disseminated the following: > > I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this. Feh. > > I have it working great on Debian, but I can't help with it on suse > given it's a different packaging system. I won't touch nvidia's > installer given how much better the Debian packaging of it installs and > manages things. ...so, basically, you don't have any useful info, just that every way of doing anything except the Debian way sucks. -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.orderinchaos.org Kernel 2.4.22-21.tmb.1mdk Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (FiveStar) for i586 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 15:01:35 up 5 days, 1:28, 8 users, load average: 0.29, 0.15, 0.04 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Gauging the number of Iraqi civilian casualties since the war began is difficult because the U.S.-led occupation force does not count them..." -- Letta Tayler, Newsday, March 7th 2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 03:54:28 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:54:28 -0700 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes In-Reply-To: <20040510203814.161a431a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> Message-ID: <40A13D84.8671.30011F5@localhost> On 10 May 2004 at 20:38, JoeHill wrote: > On Mon, 10 May 2004 19:43:38 -0400 > Byron L. Sonne disseminated the following: > > > I'm otherwise enjoying my new suse 9.1 setup, but I've got a problem > > with the nvidia drivers. I can't get 3d acceleration, and that's > > after following both SuSE and Nvidia's driver installation > > documentation. I've done this all by the book, I swear, and it still > > keeps bitching at me to install the nvidia stuff so I can enable 3d > > support. > > > > I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this. Feh. > > What driver does it show is being loaded in your > /etc/X11/XF86Config-4? > > Should be under 'Section "Device"', 'Driver "nvidia"' > > -- And you must also remove load "dri", load "Glcore" and add in load "glx" save the file and then restart X. You should get an Nvidia screen if it worked. Consult /usr/share/doc/nvidia-glx-src/readme The other thing you may have to consider is /usr/lib/tls/libGL..so.1 and libGLcore.so.1 these files may be still in use (linked) and may have to be renamed to activate the new files. eg mine is /usr/lib/tls/libGLcore.so.1.0.5336 and libGL..so.1.5336 Sorry for the win post HTH John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 04:13:58 2004 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:13:58 -0400 Subject: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? Message-ID: Hi All, Does anyone know if there are tools (free or commercial) to merge, cut, paste, etc. pdf files? I have two pdf files I want to merge and also a page or two that I want to cut out as a separate pdf, but am not sure which command to use. Any suggestions? (I usually create the pdf using dvipdfm from latex). Alex ------------ Alex Maynard Assistant Professor Department of Economics University of Toronto 150 St. George St., N304 Toronto ON M5S 3G7 Canada e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org tel: (416) 978-4358 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 04:19:53 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:19:53 -0400 Subject: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Multivalent is a pretty comprehensive (if a big slow and ugly) document processing project. I think it started as a research project that has since spawned off into a life of its own. http://multivalent.sourceforge.net/ Not sure if it'll do what you want, exactly, but it does have some PDF annotation and such features. -Jing On Wed, 12 May 2004, Alex Maynard wrote: > Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:13:58 -0400 > From: Alex Maynard > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? > > > Hi All, > > Does anyone know if there are tools (free or commercial) to merge, cut, > paste, etc. pdf files? I have two pdf files I want to merge and also a > page or two that I want to cut out as a separate pdf, but am not sure > which command to use. Any suggestions? (I usually create the pdf using > dvipdfm from latex). > > Alex > > > > > ------------ > Alex Maynard > Assistant Professor > Department of Economics > University of Toronto > 150 St. George St., N304 > Toronto ON M5S 3G7 > Canada > e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org > tel: (416) 978-4358 > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 12:47:04 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:47:04 -0400 Subject: new network appliance open source project started Message-ID: <20040512124110.4DEE5B5616@outbox.allstream.net> A new Sourceforge project (https://sourceforge.net/projects/ioanywhere) has been created for the purpose of creating an LGPL'd library exposing the API to the IO Anywhere network appliance (http://www.io-anywhere.ca) for Linux programmers. This project is now actively looking for developers with C, Tcl/Tk and Python skills. One of the first orders of business will be to write an IO Anywhere simulator which will allow everyone to work on the library without needing access to a network appliance. A mailing list for this project has been created. To subscribe simply send a blank email to: ioanywhere-subscribe-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 12:36:22 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:36:22 -0400 Subject: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A21A46.2060003@sympatico.ca> Alex Maynard wrote: > > Does anyone know if there are tools (free or commercial) to merge, cut, > paste, etc. pdf files? commercial: Adobe's Acrobat suite. Not (yet) available on Linux. free: don't know of any tools that will do this explicitly, but it shouldn't be too difficult to do this using PDF::API2 (appalling documentation notwithstanding). If you're really stuck, I could probably write a small suite for you in an hour or two. > (I usually create the pdf using dvipdfm from latex). If you're using TeX, you could created PostScript files using dvips, then use Angus Duggan's pstools to hack the files about. Once you've got PS you like, you can create PDF using ps2pdf. But that might break your workflow if you're using dvipdfm graphics specials. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 12:49:23 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 08:49:23 -0400 Subject: USB mass storage programming Message-ID: <40A21D53.7090509@sympatico.ca> I'm trying to port a tiny Windows utility for controlling raw mode on my Nikon digital camera to Linux. It's almost trivial, but I've never done any USB/SCSI interface programming before. All I need to do is check that the device ID strings match particular values, and if they do, set another device field to another string value. I can almost understand the Windows C++ here: , but was wondering how it differs under Linux. thanks, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 16:06:09 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:06:09 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X Message-ID: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Hi, I recently hooked up a new KVM and I am getting horrible video when in X. In text mode things appear to be fine. Doing a bit of research I found claims that KVM switches often don't provide enough "bandwidth" for high refresh rates such as those used by X. The effect that I am seeing is a bright glow (shadow?) around all fonts, it's very hard on the eyes and I start getting a headache after minutes. Other than this font problem X displays correctly. If I plug the monitor directly into my desktop then X is fine, I've tried different cables and different ports in the KVM to no avail. I tried reducing X's resolution and refresh rates to the point where I had quite annoying flicker but the ghosted fonts problem remained. Does anyone have an idea if this is solveable? The KVM is a miniview ultra (apparently made by IOGear). I'm using xfree86 4.3.0 under Debian testing. Another guy used this switch under X before I did so that's why I'm thinking there might be a solution. Thanks -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 16:16:31 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:16:31 -0400 Subject: printing Message-ID: <200405121216.31274.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Hi, I sent this email to the fedora users list, but thought I'd try the local list too.. I am totally stuck.. I updated a redhat7.3 system to fedora for a friend (so I don't know all the system details), but now his computer can't print. It looks like lpr, and associated printing commands are missing. When I type ls -la /usr/bin | grep " lp" I get, among others, the following entries: lrwxrwxrwx root 26 May 9 2003 lp -> /etc/alternatives/print-lp lrwxrwxrwx root 27 May 9 2003 lpq -> /etc/alternatives/print-lpq lrwxrwxrwx root 23 May 9 2003 lpr -> /etc/alternatives/print lrwxrwxrwx root 28 May 9 2003 lprm -> /etc/alternatives/print-lprm lrwxrwxrwx root 30 May 9 2003 lpstat -> /etc/alternatives/print-lpstat But the linked-to files in /etc/alternatives do not exist. In fact, some of these link to other files that do not exist. Is there any straight-forward way to get printing back. I'd rather not resort to copying /usr/bin/lpr etc.. from another computer, which may not even work. This is the third 7.3 system I updated to Fedora, and haven't had this problem before. Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 16:20:57 2004 From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:20:57 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121206.09117.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <40A24EE9.6060504@alteeve.com> Sounds like cheap/broken circutry in the video passthrough on the KVM. Should have nothing to do with X/windows/OSX or any other software. Possably the video card/KVM combination... Lance -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 16:24:26 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:24:26 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121206.09117.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200405121224.26051.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> On May 12, 2004 12:06 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > I recently hooked up a new KVM and I am getting horrible video when in X. > In text mode things appear to be fine. Doing a bit of research I found > claims that KVM switches often don't provide enough "bandwidth" for high > refresh rates such as those used by X. The KVM switch I have works fine. I got it from Sonnam (I don't remember the maker/model/brand... and i'm not in front of it right now). It claimed to be linux compatible on the box, which is why I got it. If anyone is intersted I can post the make later. I'd guess it's bad hardware... does it work under MS Windows? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mark-/2gyfjYZF1k at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 16:37:04 2004 From: mark-/2gyfjYZF1k at public.gmane.org (Mark Wadden) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 12:37:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121206.09117.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <2327.216.94.70.214.1084379824.squirrel@rage.gmi2.com> I've had that exact problem before with both Windows and Linux. I tried multiple machines, cables, etc and it always came back to the KVM itself. Over the past few years I've tried 5 or 6 different KVMs, from a cheap 2-ports to bigger 24 port switches. One thing I've noticed is that you get what you pay for. The 2 and 4 port switches I tried were utter garbage (even though they were $200+), but my bigger Belkin switch is fantastic. Even after I noticed how good my Belkin was, I tried a smaller 2-port Belkin... more garbage. Just my $0.02. -mark -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 17:10:15 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:10:15 -0400 Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <200405121216.31274.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121216.31274.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200405121310.15659.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> On May 12, 2004 12:16 pm, Fred Nastos wrote: > Hi, > > I sent this email to the fedora users list, but thought I'd try the > local list too.. I am totally stuck.. I figured it out. Sorry for the bother. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 17:30:40 2004 From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 13:30:40 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes In-Reply-To: <20040511150221.5ea51f4b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> <20040511170517.GB9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040511150221.5ea51f4b.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <40A25F40.8040606@utoronto.ca> JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:05:17 -0400 > Lennart Sorensen disseminated the following: > > >>>I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this. Feh. >> >>I have it working great on Debian, but I can't help with it on suse >>given it's a different packaging system. I won't touch nvidia's >>installer given how much better the Debian packaging of it installs and >>manages things. > > > ...so, basically, you don't have any useful info, just that every way of doing > anything except the Debian way sucks. > Joe, it is unfortunate that when someone tries to help you, you are rude and misrepresent what they have said. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 20:56:04 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 16:56:04 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121206.09117.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <40A28F64.9040405@alteeve.com> Hi Fraser, Everytime I have seen that it was either a cheap/bad cable or a cheap/bad KVM. I am running ten Linux machines through a cascaded dual 8-port Belkin KVM and the picture is just fine, you would never know they were there. If you want to test and can get downtown I have a 4-port belkin I am not using at the moment which I know is fine that you can borrow. E-mail me off the list at 'mkelly | akteeve - com' if you want. Madison Fraser Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > I recently hooked up a new KVM and I am getting horrible video when in X. In > text mode things appear to be fine. Doing a bit of research I found claims > that KVM switches often don't provide enough "bandwidth" for high refresh > rates such as those used by X. > > The effect that I am seeing is a bright glow (shadow?) around all fonts, it's > very hard on the eyes and I start getting a headache after minutes. Other > than this font problem X displays correctly. If I plug the monitor directly > into my desktop then X is fine, I've tried different cables and different > ports in the KVM to no avail. > > I tried reducing X's resolution and refresh rates to the point where I had > quite annoying flicker but the ghosted fonts problem remained. Does anyone > have an idea if this is solveable? The KVM is a miniview ultra (apparently > made by IOGear). > > I'm using xfree86 4.3.0 under Debian testing. Another guy used this switch > under X before I did so that's why I'm thinking there might be a solution. > > Thanks -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 21:05:15 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:05:15 -0400 Subject: USB mass storage programming In-Reply-To: <40A21D53.7090509-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A21D53.7090509@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <40A2918B.9050306@alteeve.com> Hi, I am not much of a programmer so I hope this helps somewhat. I have been working on a backup program that uses external USB drives and I know that the devices are listed under /proc/scsi/{scsi|sg|usb-storage-#}/#. When I 'cat' my external chassis I get: # This the actual drive data, after rescanning the scsi bus: [madison-7pyt9le+KA8 at public.gmane.org tle-bu]$ sudo cat /proc/scsi/scsi Attached devices: Host: scsi0 Channel: 00 Id: 00 Lun: 00 Vendor: IBM-DTTA Model: -371440 Rev: T71O Type: Direct-Access ANSI SCSI revision: 02 # This is the chassis [madison-7pyt9le+KA8 at public.gmane.org tle-bu]$ sudo cat /proc/scsi/usb-storage-0/0 Host scsi0: usb-storage Vendor: In-System Design Product: USB Storage Adapter Serial Number: 11100E00006792AF Protocol: Transparent SCSI Transport: Bulk GUID: 05ab006011100e00006792af Attached: Yes There are a lot of other interesting files in /proc/scsi* that may help, too. HTH, Madison Stewart C. Russell wrote: > I'm trying to port a tiny Windows utility for controlling raw mode on my > Nikon digital camera to Linux. It's almost trivial, but I've never done > any USB/SCSI interface programming before. > > All I need to do is check that the device ID strings match particular > values, and if they do, set another device field to another string value. > > I can almost understand the Windows C++ here: > , but was wondering how > it differs under Linux. > > thanks, > Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 21:25:54 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 17:25:54 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes In-Reply-To: <20040511150221.5ea51f4b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> <20040511170517.GB9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040511150221.5ea51f4b.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040512212554.GC9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 03:02:21PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > On Tue, 11 May 2004 13:05:17 -0400 > Lennart Sorensen disseminated the following: > > > > I'm wondering if anyone else has run into this. Feh. > > > > I have it working great on Debian, but I can't help with it on suse > > given it's a different packaging system. I won't touch nvidia's > > installer given how much better the Debian packaging of it installs and > > manages things. > > ...so, basically, you don't have any useful info, just that every way of doing > anything except the Debian way sucks. Well, no I did contribute something: Nvidia's installer often does a bad job, but the code can be made to work (given someone did it for debian). Don't be surprised if the nvidia scripts don't work well. I have installed the nvidia stuff in the past successfully before the debian way, and before the nvidia stuff even had a script. The readme was quite sufficient at the time and worked fine. Using the latest version is probably a good start. It works with 2.6 kernels natively now as far as I can tell, older versions were 2.4 only unless you got a seperate patch. You have to be sure that you rename the old libs that it wants to replace (libGL and such), and of course you have to compile the modules for the kernel against the kernel headers or source matching your running kernel excactly. Any vefrsion of X from 4.1 to 4.3 included should be ok as long as it is already working (testing first with the nv driver is nice if it supports your nvidia card). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 22:43:48 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:43:48 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121206.09117.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <40A2A8A4.7040604@rogers.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > I recently hooked up a new KVM and I am getting horrible video when in X. In > text mode things appear to be fine. Doing a bit of research I found claims > that KVM switches often don't provide enough "bandwidth" for high refresh > rates such as those used by X. > > The effect that I am seeing is a bright glow (shadow?) around all fonts, it's > very hard on the eyes and I start getting a headache after minutes. Other > than this font problem X displays correctly. If I plug the monitor directly > into my desktop then X is fine, I've tried different cables and different > ports in the KVM to no avail. > > I tried reducing X's resolution and refresh rates to the point where I had > quite annoying flicker but the ghosted fonts problem remained. Does anyone > have an idea if this is solveable? The KVM is a miniview ultra (apparently > made by IOGear). > > I'm using xfree86 4.3.0 under Debian testing. Another guy used this switch > under X before I did so that's why I'm thinking there might be a solution. > > Thanks Are you using a mechanical or electronic switch? The mechanical ones often cause problems. I've got a Protec "Bytelan" that works fine. Also, X shouldn't require anymore bandwidth, than any other system, running similar resolution. Another cause of your problem, may be a defective cable or connector. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 22:45:27 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 18:45:27 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121224.26051.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200405121224.26051.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <40A2A907.2020506@rogers.com> Fred Nastos wrote: > On May 12, 2004 12:06 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: > >>Hi, >> >>I recently hooked up a new KVM and I am getting horrible video when in X. >>In text mode things appear to be fine. Doing a bit of research I found >>claims that KVM switches often don't provide enough "bandwidth" for high >>refresh rates such as those used by X. > > > The KVM switch I have works fine. I got it from Sonnam (I don't remember > the maker/model/brand... and i'm not in front of it right now). It claimed to > be linux compatible on the box, which is why I got it. If anyone is > intersted I can post the make later. > > I'd guess it's bad hardware... does it work under MS Windows? > How could it be "Linux compatible"???? Video is video is video, no matter what the operating system. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 23:10:58 2004 From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:10:58 -0400 Subject: perl file browser In-Reply-To: <409C1AC7.6090602-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <409C1AC7.6090602@alteeve.com> Message-ID: If you are doing backups, how about Amanda, it has clients for most (all?) OS flavours, allows user initiated backups and restores, will stage backups to a disk then later to tape. I don't know if a browser interface exists but maybe. http://www.amanda.org/ Grant Cullen -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Madison Kelly Sent: Friday, May 07, 2004 19:25 To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: perl file browser Anton Markov wrote: > There are many different cross-platform languages out there. > > I think that with something such as backups which requires atomic > operations (consistency), it would be best to use some sort of > client-side interface (or do LOTS of checks and "Are you sure?" pages). The good majority of the program code is sanity checks and I assume almost nothingso far as where things "should" be. As for Java, well, I have never been a fan of it myself because it has always seemed very cumbersom and I also don't like the idea of the client needing a Java VM. On top of that, later on I want to make sure that it renders as best as possible in a text browser for surevers without X and I don't think Java would allow that. I may get stuck though and have to go Java or something similar but I am going to do my best to avoid it. I was hoping to be playing with the browser by this point but the sanity checking and partition discovery and assigning portion has taken me quite a while. I will report what route I end up taking if anyone is interested. Thanks again for all the ideas and comments. I am sure that I will soon be back with more questions once I get to the browser stage! :) Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 23:16:33 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:16:33 -0400 Subject: SuSE 9.1 nvidia driver woes In-Reply-To: <40A25F40.8040606-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <40A013AA.7030300@rogers.com> <20040511170517.GB9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040511150221.5ea51f4b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <40A25F40.8040606@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20040512191633.653c11ec.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 12 May 2004 13:30:40 -0400 Ivan Avery Frey disseminated the following: > > ...so, basically, you don't have any useful info, just that every way of > > doing > > anything except the Debian way sucks. > > > > Joe, it is unfortunate that when someone tries to help you, you are rude > and misrepresent what they have said. 1. He wasn't trying to help *anyone*, esp me, since if you were awake you would have noticed he wasn't replying to me, but to Byron. 2. 'Misrepresent'? Okay, please explain what useful/helpful info Lenny provided in his post that would conceivably be of any value to Byron. 3. Grow a sense of humour. -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.orderinchaos.org Kernel 2.4.22-21.tmb.1mdk Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (FiveStar) for i586 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 19:12:12 up 6 days, 5:39, 4 users, load average: 0.24, 0.07, 0.02 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Behind every great fortune is a crime." -- Balzac -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed May 12 23:43:24 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 19:43:24 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <40A2A8A4.7040604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <40A2A8A4.7040604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200405121943.24127.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 12 May 2004 18:43, James Knott wrote: > Are you using a mechanical or electronic switch? The mechanical ones > often cause problems. I've got a Protec "Bytelan" that works fine. I guess it's electronic ... CTRL-CTRL gives me a popup menu and it has various other built in hotkeys that I can use. > Also, X shouldn't require anymore bandwidth, than any other system, > running similar resolution. I wouldn't expect so. > Another cause of your problem, may be a defective cable or connector. Certainly, I did try both a new cable and a new port on the KVM. I'll try a new monitor next, if that doesn't work I'll just give up because the computer in question is a half-height case and switching video cards would be a PITA. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 00:50:55 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:50:55 -0400 Subject: Looking for book "Extreme programming Examined" Message-ID: <40A2C66F.7020101@rogers.com> In particular, I want to borrow it long enough to photocopy one of the essays it contains ..... though if it can be spared, would be interested in reading the rest of the book. Robart's Library has it, but it's out on lone till the end of the month, and I need the info before that. Does anyone have it? Tom Legrady -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 01:23:41 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:23:41 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <40A2A907.2020506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200405121224.26051.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <40A2A907.2020506@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200405122123.41646.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> On May 12, 2004 06:45 pm, James Knott wrote: > Fred Nastos wrote: > > On May 12, 2004 12:06 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: > > > > The KVM switch I have works fine. I got it from Sonnam (I don't remember > > the maker/model/brand... and i'm not in front of it right now). It > > claimed to be linux compatible on the box, which is why I got it. If > > anyone is intersted I can post the make later. > > > > I'd guess it's bad hardware... does it work under MS Windows? > > How could it be "Linux compatible"???? I know... I know... but I thought it was nice that the manufacturer stuck a penguin on the box. Notice how many hardware products (including KVMs) say "MS Windows Compatible" or something similar, when it's still compatible with others. Actually, it was the only KVM switch Sonnam had that day, but anyway... > Video is video is video, no matter what the operating system. Yes, of course. I didn't mean to give the impression otherwise. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 01:42:10 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:42:10 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405122123.41646.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200405121224.26051.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <40A2A907.2020506@rogers.com> <200405122123.41646.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <40A2D272.6010807@rogers.com> Fred Nastos wrote: > On May 12, 2004 06:45 pm, James Knott wrote: > >>Fred Nastos wrote: >> >>>On May 12, 2004 12:06 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: >>> >>>The KVM switch I have works fine. I got it from Sonnam (I don't remember >>>the maker/model/brand... and i'm not in front of it right now). It >>>claimed to be linux compatible on the box, which is why I got it. If >>>anyone is intersted I can post the make later. >>> >>>I'd guess it's bad hardware... does it work under MS Windows? >> >>How could it be "Linux compatible"???? > > > I know... I know... but I thought it was nice that the manufacturer > stuck a penguin on the box. Notice how many hardware products > (including KVMs) say "MS Windows Compatible" or something > similar, when it's still compatible with others. Actually, it was the > only KVM switch Sonnam had that day, but anyway... Several years ago, a friend peeled a "Ready for Windows 95" sticker off a monitor, and stuck it on the toilet. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 01:55:28 2004 From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:55:28 -0400 Subject: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Jing, Thanks very much! Alex > Multivalent is a pretty comprehensive (if a big slow and ugly) document > processing project. I think it started as a research project that has > since spawned off into a life of its own. > > http://multivalent.sourceforge.net/ > > Not sure if it'll do what you want, exactly, but it does have some PDF > annotation and such features. > > -Jing > > On Wed, 12 May 2004, Alex Maynard wrote: > > > Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 00:13:58 -0400 > > From: Alex Maynard > > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > Subject: [TLUG]: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > Does anyone know if there are tools (free or commercial) to merge, cut, > > paste, etc. pdf files? I have two pdf files I want to merge and also a > > page or two that I want to cut out as a separate pdf, but am not sure > > which command to use. Any suggestions? (I usually create the pdf using > > dvipdfm from latex). > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > > > ------------ > > Alex Maynard > > Assistant Professor > > Department of Economics > > University of Toronto > > 150 St. George St., N304 > > Toronto ON M5S 3G7 > > Canada > > e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org > > tel: (416) 978-4358 > > > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ------------ Alex Maynard Assistant Professor Department of Economics University of Toronto 150 St. George St., N304 Toronto ON M5S 3G7 Canada e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org tel: (416) 978-4358 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 02:56:06 2004 From: sgh-Ja3L+HSX0kI at public.gmane.org (Steve Harvey) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 22:56:06 -0400 Subject: Reverse Engineering of MS Visio file format Message-ID: <20040513025606.GA22986@vex.net> I'm wondering if anyone on this list can help by providing access to a machine running it? I need to create a whole whack of small files while varying the features used, then take them home and analyze them. Rince and repeat a few times to bring closer the day that FOSS such as Dia can import native-format .vsd files. I'm aware of another effort (i.e. http://www.redferni.uklinux.net/visio/), however, experience tells me that an iterative and hands-on approach is required in order to yield results within a useful time frame. Out of 50 drawings I found through google, 47 were version 6 and only 3 were version 5. (As per the previous URL, the version number is in the byte at offset 0x1A from the beginning of the 512-byte block that starts with the ASCII string "Visio (TM) Drawing".) Early afternoons or after 1am, M-F, close to downtown is optimal for me. Alternatively, if you know of a suitable walk-in bureau/Internet cafe (I've tried Kinko's on Bloor and the Internet cafes on Bloor between Bathurst/Christie without luck), do tell. Please reply off list. -- Steve Harvey -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 03:16:22 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 20:16:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <200405121310.15659.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121310.15659.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20040513031622.14106.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> could you post the solution to your problem instead of a 'i figured it out' ? not that i need the information, but your solution may be useful to someone later. cheers, Qiang --- Fred Nastos wrote: > On May 12, 2004 12:16 pm, Fred Nastos wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I sent this email to the fedora users list, but thought I'd try the > > local list too.. I am totally stuck.. > > I figured it out. Sorry for the bother. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 04:51:01 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 21:51:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Prohibiting selected users from booting into Windows Message-ID: <20040513045101.18510.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Our kids are coming for a few days over the May long weekend. They both are computer users and I don't want them running Windows on my PC. Currently when the computer boots you can select Windows or Linux. Is there some kind of autoexec I can put on windows that requires a password to continue. If the password isn't keyed in I want the PC to either shut down (preferably) or go to grub's boot screen. Any ideas? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 05:05:52 2004 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:05:52 -0400 Subject: I need LINUX propositions for my school board ;-) Message-ID: <200405130105.52756.marc@lijour.net> Hi My school board is investigating a Citrix + thin-client solution. Administrative desktop are currently XP and students win98. They are considering Linux for Desktop. Our move.... Please refer any documentation that you would know and contact me for this and more. People that would consider to give time and advice to a school board ready to make the move, let me know who you are! Thanks and I hope I did not interrupt you good work! Marc Lijour -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 05:08:26 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:08:26 -0400 Subject: Prohibiting selected users from booting into Windows In-Reply-To: <20040513045101.18510.qmail-aqc0IV44L2qA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040513045101.18510.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A302CA.2050408@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Here is something that may help. From /boot/grub/menu.conf: ## password ['--md5'] passwd # If used in the first section of a menu file, disable all interactive # editing control (menu entry editor and command-line) and entries # protected by the command 'lock' # e.g. password topsecret # password --md5 $1$gLhU0/$aW78kHK1QfV3P2b2znUoe/ Not sure if this is what you want, but it seems to me that you can password protect either that one Windows boot entry or your whole system. Mel Seder wrote: > Our kids are coming for a few days over the May long weekend. They both are > computer users and I don't want them running Windows on my PC. > > Currently when the computer boots you can select Windows or Linux. Is there > some kind of autoexec I can put on windows that requires a password to > continue. If the password isn't keyed in I want the PC to either shut down > (preferably) or go to grub's boot screen. > > Any ideas? - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAowLQRreNkzrRRLQRAudmAJ9lGu213bAZ+D2v3g2NAcbvSXQaOQCeLQ2H gIZA0RR26Etiew8pz0Eubzs= =gyXK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 05:17:08 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 01:17:08 -0400 Subject: Prohibiting selected users from booting into Windows In-Reply-To: <20040513045101.18510.qmail-aqc0IV44L2qA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040513045101.18510.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A304D4.6010406@rogers.com> Grub can require a password, can't it? Tom Mel Seder wrote: >Our kids are coming for a few days over the May long weekend. They both are >computer users and I don't want them running Windows on my PC. > >Currently when the computer boots you can select Windows or Linux. Is there >some kind of autoexec I can put on windows that requires a password to >continue. If the password isn't keyed in I want the PC to either shut down >(preferably) or go to grub's boot screen. > >Any ideas? > > > > >===== >The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him >absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 06:10:53 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Wed, 12 May 2004 23:10:53 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Associating programs to file types Message-ID: <20040513061053.33823.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> When I click on an mp3 "Music Player" fires up. I'd like xmms to run instead. I use CORE 1 and would like to use a GUI to do it. How do I do that? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 06:34:57 2004 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 02:34:57 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121206.09117.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1084430097.14353.18.camel@rincewind.discworld> I had trouble with a manual switch a while back. It turned out that the runs of cable I had were too long and were running too close to power cables and the like. You're likely seeing signal loss due to the long amount of wire between your card and the machine. Good KVMs compensate by boosting the signal within the box. Bad KVMs well...don't. So maybe try some shorter monitor cables? I'd be willing to bet you see the same results if you chained two cables together directly to the video card, skipping the KVM. On Wed, 2004-05-12 at 12:06, Fraser Campbell wrote: > Hi, > > I recently hooked up a new KVM and I am getting horrible video when in X. In > text mode things appear to be fine. Doing a bit of research I found claims > that KVM switches often don't provide enough "bandwidth" for high refresh > rates such as those used by X. > > The effect that I am seeing is a bright glow (shadow?) around all fonts, it's > very hard on the eyes and I start getting a headache after minutes. Other > than this font problem X displays correctly. If I plug the monitor directly > into my desktop then X is fine, I've tried different cables and different > ports in the KVM to no avail. > > I tried reducing X's resolution and refresh rates to the point where I had > quite annoying flicker but the ghosted fonts problem remained. Does anyone > have an idea if this is solveable? The KVM is a miniview ultra (apparently > made by IOGear). > > I'm using xfree86 4.3.0 under Debian testing. Another guy used this switch > under X before I did so that's why I'm thinking there might be a solution. > > Thanks -- Marcus Brubaker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 07:11:13 2004 From: cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Wakeman) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 03:11:13 -0400 Subject: I need LINUX propositions for my school board ;-) In-Reply-To: <200405130105.52756.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405130105.52756.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <20040513071113.GA26911@dmz> Hi There are a few general thin client guides/howtos around that will describe some of the basic ideas if you have people wanting a starting point (http://trieste.linux.it/documenti/ThinClient.html is a good one). However, because you're not going to want a lot of setup, my suggestion would be to look into an established F/OSS solution such as PXES (thin client software to connect with citrix, MS virtual server, etc - available at sourceforge) for the thin clients, rather than creating your own by following a howto. If you are willing to move away from Citrix, look into using the Linux Terminal Server Project (at www.ltsp.org) with PXE/Etherboot. This would allow all administration to be done on the server (obviously a big plus, especially if there are a lot of machines involved), and it looks to be a solid, well maintained project. I'm sure someone on the list has experience with it (I've never actually used it). I'm not too experienced with thin client stuff, but unless there's someone who actually knows what they're doing who wants to step in, I can try to answer any questions: just drop me an email off list. HTH, -Jeremy On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 01:05:52AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > My school board is investigating a Citrix + thin-client solution. > Administrative desktop are currently XP and students win98. They are > considering Linux for Desktop. Our move.... > > Please refer any documentation that you would know and contact me for this and > more. People that would consider to give time and advice to a school board > ready to make the move, let me know who you are! -- Jeremy John Wakeman cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org www.polarhome.com/~cael linux registered user #125171 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 10:59:39 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 06:59:39 -0400 Subject: Prohibiting selected users from booting into Windows In-Reply-To: <20040513045101.18510.qmail-aqc0IV44L2qA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040513045101.18510.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A3551B.3030108@rogers.com> Mel Seder wrote: > Our kids are coming for a few days over the May long weekend. They both are > computer users and I don't want them running Windows on my PC. > > Currently when the computer boots you can select Windows or Linux. Is there > some kind of autoexec I can put on windows that requires a password to > continue. If the password isn't keyed in I want the PC to either shut down > (preferably) or go to grub's boot screen. > > Any ideas? Depending on the version of Windows, you may be able to require a password to use it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 12:32:05 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 08:32:05 -0400 Subject: I need LINUX propositions for my school board ;-) In-Reply-To: <200405130105.52756.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405130105.52756.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200405130832.05187.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> A move to Linux is a change in business model. This involves changes both for vendors and for customers. I would like to help. I am at dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org On Thursday 13 May 2004 01:05 am, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > My school board is investigating a Citrix + thin-client solution. > Administrative desktop are currently XP and students win98. They are > considering Linux for Desktop. Our move.... > > Please refer any documentation that you would know and contact me for this > and more. People that would consider to give time and advice to a school > board ready to make the move, let me know who you are! > > Thanks and I hope I did not interrupt you good work! > > Marc Lijour > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 13:00:30 2004 From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ladislav Svatos) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 09:00:30 -0400 Subject: I need LINUX propositions for my school board ;-) In-Reply-To: <200405130105.52756.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405130105.52756.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <200405130900.30929.lada@agawa.com> Marc: Go to: http://k12ltsp.org/ They have software to download, case studies and lots of experience in running Linux at schools. Lada On May 13, 2004 01:05 am, Marc Lijour wrote: > Hi > > My school board is investigating a Citrix + thin-client solution. > Administrative desktop are currently XP and students win98. They are > considering Linux for Desktop. Our move.... > > Please refer any documentation that you would know and contact me for this > and more. People that would consider to give time and advice to a school > board ready to make the move, let me know who you are! > > Thanks and I hope I did not interrupt you good work! > > Marc Lijour > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 13:29:33 2004 From: steven.meyer-bdq14YP6qtRg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (steven meyer) Date: 13 May 2004 09:29:33 -0400 Subject: I need LINUX propositions for my school board ;-) In-Reply-To: <20040513071113.GA26911-oDRTo6QHVhA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405130105.52756.marc@lijour.net> <20040513071113.GA26911@dmz> Message-ID: <1084454972.2661.56.camel@XANDROS> Hi, I am aware of some of the computing requirements for public schools in York region. To get any school board to switch away from the entrenched systems (Win or Mac) will be nigh on impossible. The best will be a dual-system approach. I would suggest a variation on the self-installing Knoppix, customized for the particular school(s). Here are my top-ten benefits; 1. a core set of software to be deployed easily via CD 2. preloaded applications useful to students (there are lots) 3. students can only save their data to the system file servers (with authentication) 4. control over student activities 5. no viruses at all 6. easy upgrading (simply issue a new CD) 7. client (thin or otherwise) access to back-end servers 8. when the CD is removed the PC reverts to its "old" ways 9. Students can take the CD home and work on their home PCs and still access their school networks over the Internet. 10.no license fees Any thoughts? Steven On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 03:11, Jeremy Wakeman wrote: > Hi > > There are a few general thin client guides/howtos around that will > describe some of the basic ideas if you have people wanting a starting > point (http://trieste.linux.it/documenti/ThinClient.html is a good one). > > However, because you're not going to want a lot of setup, my suggestion > would be to look into an established F/OSS solution such as PXES > (thin client software to connect with citrix, MS virtual server, etc - > available at sourceforge) for the thin clients, rather than creating > your own by following a howto. > > If you are willing to move away from Citrix, look into using the Linux > Terminal Server Project (at www.ltsp.org) with PXE/Etherboot. This would > allow all administration to be done on the server (obviously a big plus, > especially if there are a lot of machines involved), and it looks to be > a solid, well maintained project. I'm sure someone on the list has > experience with it (I've never actually used it). > > I'm not too experienced with thin client stuff, but unless there's > someone who actually knows what they're doing who wants to step in, I > can try to answer any questions: just drop me an email off list. > > HTH, > > -Jeremy > > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 01:05:52AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > Hi > > > > My school board is investigating a Citrix + thin-client solution. > > Administrative desktop are currently XP and students win98. They are > > considering Linux for Desktop. Our move.... > > > > Please refer any documentation that you would know and contact me for this and > > more. People that would consider to give time and advice to a school board > > ready to make the move, let me know who you are! > > > -- > > Jeremy John Wakeman > cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > www.polarhome.com/~cael > linux registered user #125171 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:42:08 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:42:08 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405121206.09117.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040513144209.7A62F4456@cbbrowne.com> > I recently hooked up a new KVM and I am getting horrible video when in > X. In text mode things appear to be fine. Doing a bit of research I > found claims that KVM switches often don't provide enough "bandwidth" > for high refresh rates such as those used by X. > > The effect that I am seeing is a bright glow (shadow?) around all > fonts, it's very hard on the eyes and I start getting a headache after > minutes. Other than this font problem X displays correctly. If I > plug the monitor directly into my desktop then X is fine, I've tried > different cables and different ports in the KVM to no avail. This sounds like a hardware problem; it is _possible_ that getting the fanciest cables you can get (replete with gold-plated connectors and such) might help. I wouldn't want to run high-end video through a KVM; it is _certain_ that the addition of extra hardware will degrade the signal. -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','acm.org'). http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/spiritual.html Think of C++ as an object-oriented assembly language. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 14:54:03 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:54:03 -0400 Subject: I need LINUX propositions for my school board ;-) In-Reply-To: <1084454972.2661.56.camel-vkdO3cD2GHY@public.gmane.org> References: <200405130105.52756.marc@lijour.net> <20040513071113.GA26911@dmz> <1084454972.2661.56.camel@XANDROS> Message-ID: <200405131054.03524.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> On Thursday 13 May 2004 09:29 am, steven meyer wrote: > Hi, > > I am aware of some of the computing requirements for public schools in > York region. To get any school board to switch away from the entrenched > systems (Win or Mac) will be nigh on impossible. The best will be a > dual-system approach. 1. Look at alternatives. At contract time, it never pays to be dedicated to a monopolist. Win/Mac must grow, and will grow only by milking their present customer base. 2. Every alternaitve requires work. Win/Mac is not without pain, and it's going to get worse. Plan your effort. Everyone gets forced to migrate. With Win/Mac, often you 'upgrade' all at once. New hardware and new software. Big budgets, huge projects; retraining, confusion. Just to continue. New license restrictions, and the everpresent risk of being accused of 'piracy'. 3. Work out how to consider an alternative approach. a. Take baby steps to start with. Linux plays nicely with others. Keep Windows and Mac machines, if they work. Consider Linux and try it. Linux will network and coexist very well, and is thus an excellent vehicle for migration. Just migrate a few machines at a time, getting them to play in your network as you go. Live CDs like Knoppix are a way to do this without leaving footprints. b. Stretch your budget dollars by exploring the business model of open systems. See what your older machines can do in a Linux environment. See what a new machine with only Linux on it can do. Older computers, or computers without proprietary operating systems are much cheaper alternatives to all-in-one packages. c. Understand the new business model and how it can help. In practice, Win or Mac new releases are brutally expensive, requiring complete replacement of hardware and software. So such upgrades are delayed for budgetary reasons. Linux releases are more frequent, and rarely tied to new hardware requirements. New release tend to *accommodate* new hardware, not requiring it. d. Note Win/Mac software releases and Linux releases are not equivalent. Linux distributions include a huge amount of software software that is separately priced and marketed in the Win/Mac world. 4. Linux migration can be done one step at a time. Try it. > > I would suggest a variation on the self-installing Knoppix, customized > for the particular school(s). Here are my top-ten benefits; > > 1. a core set of software to be deployed easily via CD > 2. preloaded applications useful to students (there are lots) > 3. students can only save their data to the system file servers (with > authentication) > 4. control over student activities > 5. no viruses at all > 6. easy upgrading (simply issue a new CD) > 7. client (thin or otherwise) access to back-end servers > 8. when the CD is removed the PC reverts to its "old" ways > 9. Students can take the CD home and work on their home PCs and still > access their school networks over the Internet. > 10.no license fees > > Any thoughts? > > Steven > > On Thu, 2004-05-13 at 03:11, Jeremy Wakeman wrote: > > Hi > > > > There are a few general thin client guides/howtos around that will > > describe some of the basic ideas if you have people wanting a starting > > point (http://trieste.linux.it/documenti/ThinClient.html is a good one). > > > > However, because you're not going to want a lot of setup, my suggestion > > would be to look into an established F/OSS solution such as PXES > > (thin client software to connect with citrix, MS virtual server, etc - > > available at sourceforge) for the thin clients, rather than creating > > your own by following a howto. > > > > If you are willing to move away from Citrix, look into using the Linux > > Terminal Server Project (at www.ltsp.org) with PXE/Etherboot. This would > > allow all administration to be done on the server (obviously a big plus, > > especially if there are a lot of machines involved), and it looks to be > > a solid, well maintained project. I'm sure someone on the list has > > experience with it (I've never actually used it). > > > > I'm not too experienced with thin client stuff, but unless there's > > someone who actually knows what they're doing who wants to step in, I > > can try to answer any questions: just drop me an email off list. > > > > HTH, > > > > -Jeremy > > > > On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 01:05:52AM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > > > Hi > > > > > > My school board is investigating a Citrix + thin-client solution. > > > Administrative desktop are currently XP and students win98. They are > > > considering Linux for Desktop. Our move.... > > > > > > Please refer any documentation that you would know and contact me for > > > this and more. People that would consider to give time and advice to a > > > school board ready to make the move, let me know who you are! > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jeremy John Wakeman > > cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org > > www.polarhome.com/~cael > > linux registered user #125171 > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:04:02 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:04:02 -0400 Subject: I need LINUX propositions for my school board ;-) In-Reply-To: <200405130105.52756.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405130105.52756.marc@lijour.net> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040513114809.02bf59d0@mail.interlog.com> At 01:05 AM 05/13/2004, you wrote: >My school board is investigating a Citrix + thin-client solution. >Administrative desktop are currently XP and students win98. They are >considering Linux for Desktop. Our move.... The first question to ask is "What does the school expect the students to be able to do with the computers?". What types of programs does the school want to provide for the students to use? As long as they don't expect to be running commercial apps for which there is no Linux equivalent you should be ok. 11. The use of Linux on the machines should also limit the use of the machines as "game consoles". Students won't be able to install the latest Windows-based game program so the machines will be used for more productive activities. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:10:39 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:10:39 -0400 Subject: Prohibiting selected users from booting into Windows In-Reply-To: <40A302CA.2050408-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040513045101.18510.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> <40A302CA.2050408@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040513120923.02c95730@mail.interlog.com> >Mel Seder wrote: > > Our kids are coming for a few days over the May long weekend. They > both are > > computer users and I don't want them running Windows on my PC. Why not temporarily disable the multi-boot and make the machine boot straight in to Linux? That is unless you may need to use the Windows side of the machine while the kids are visiting. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:19:02 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:19:02 -0400 Subject: Associating programs to file types In-Reply-To: <20040513061053.33823.qmail-aqc0IV44L2qA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040513061053.33823.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A39FF6.70303@passport.ca> If you are using Gnome goto Preferences --- File types and programs and you can do it from there. I haven't looked at how it's done in KDE. JIm >When I click on an mp3 "Music Player" fires up. > >I'd like xmms to run instead. > >I use CORE 1 and would like to use a GUI to do it. > >How do I do that? > > > > >===== >The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him >absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 16:49:08 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 12:49:08 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please Message-ID: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am in the middle of my biggest dilema since starting to work in the Linux community professionally. I need your guys' advice on how I should go about this. I have been asked to write a program which I think, when done, will have an honest benefit to the community. Now, I was able to write it because my boss paid my hourly wage to write it so the program belongs to the company. The question is how to release it. Obviously my boss has made a decent investment in developing the program and wants to see a return (hell, the company needs money to survive, economics 101) and so they want to release the program closed source. The other issue is that this will be one thing we can offer our clients that no one else can offer. They worry (fairly) that if the program is made freely available under the GPL that we would lose our advantage. I understand their economic concerns and they are valid (this is certainly -not- a case of greed, we're a new startup and it's about keeping the company afloat). My worry though is that we are Linux-centric and if we don't contribute back to the community that we are based on we will be seen as trying to ride the wave of the new open source model while holding onto the old proprietary business model and lose respect amoung our clients. From what I can tell anyone who uses Linux has a political view on it. So, I have been arguing strongly to release to program open source. The boss and marketting guy wants to release it closed so that we can recoupe the investment they made and feed the company. Am I misunderstanding the Linux community? I don't want to go into the debate and push full out for an open source release if it hurts the company I work for but I also want to give back to the community that has helped me so often. On the legal side: our program calls GPL'ed programs but the actual program is cleanly our code. What have you guys done? Have you release open-sourced programs and still made a profit? How do most business customers react when they know that they -could- get the program for free? Do they still buy it from you anyway to ensure proper support? Do you lose work to others who took your app and sold it? All your advice is greatly appreciated! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 17:04:09 2004 From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:04:09 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40A3A704.4050703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: > I have been asked to write a program which I think, when done, will >have an honest benefit to the community. Now, I was able to write it >because my boss paid my hourly wage to write it so the program belongs >to the company. The question is how to release it. > Open source history includes both companies doing well and companies being burned by open source releases. How much support does it need? If not much, you are likely to get burned. Can it be dual licensed? See MySQL for a successful version of this option. Is releasing trailing versions an option? This also plays for time. There is no pat answer to this (unless you are RSS AFAIK). Jim Rootham -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 17:05:53 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:05:53 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <20040513144209.7A62F4456-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20040513144209.7A62F4456@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <200405131305.53935.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 13 May 2004 10:42, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > This sounds like a hardware problem; it is _possible_ that getting the > fanciest cables you can get (replete with gold-plated connectors and > such) might help. ? I switched monitors and that has helped quite a bit. I've been working on the machine all day and my eyes aren't bulging out yet. Not sure why the different monitor did the trick but it did (the original monitor is great when plugged in direct). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 17:15:00 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 13:15:00 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51012DB3@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> I think the answer is as varied as the programs being offered that are built on Open Source. Just take a look around, there are hundreds of free GPL programs. Some are very good, some are horrible. There are also numerous proprietary solutions available that use Open Source tools and they still charge a fee. There also companies that offer both solutions. One is a "lite" version for free and another is a full blown version at a cost. I think your company should do what is best for your company. You can always give back to the community after you have eaten :) Other things to consider: 1) Maintenance and Support 2) Personal vs Commercial 3) Is this your main focus for your company or is it an offshoot. 4) If you go open source how will you pay your bills? Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Madison Kelly Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2004 12:49 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please Hi all, I am in the middle of my biggest dilema since starting to work in the Linux community professionally. I need your guys' advice on how I should go about this. I have been asked to write a program which I think, when done, will have an honest benefit to the community. Now, I was able to write it because my boss paid my hourly wage to write it so the program belongs to the company. The question is how to release it. Obviously my boss has made a decent investment in developing the program and wants to see a return (hell, the company needs money to survive, economics 101) and so they want to release the program closed source. The other issue is that this will be one thing we can offer our clients that no one else can offer. They worry (fairly) that if the program is made freely available under the GPL that we would lose our advantage. I understand their economic concerns and they are valid (this is certainly -not- a case of greed, we're a new startup and it's about keeping the company afloat). My worry though is that we are Linux-centric and if we don't contribute back to the community that we are based on we will be seen as trying to ride the wave of the new open source model while holding onto the old proprietary business model and lose respect amoung our clients. From what I can tell anyone who uses Linux has a political view on it. So, I have been arguing strongly to release to program open source. The boss and marketting guy wants to release it closed so that we can recoupe the investment they made and feed the company. Am I misunderstanding the Linux community? I don't want to go into the debate and push full out for an open source release if it hurts the company I work for but I also want to give back to the community that has helped me so often. On the legal side: our program calls GPL'ed programs but the actual program is cleanly our code. What have you guys done? Have you release open-sourced programs and still made a profit? How do most business customers react when they know that they -could- get the program for free? Do they still buy it from you anyway to ensure proper support? Do you lose work to others who took your app and sold it? All your advice is greatly appreciated! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 18:52:02 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:52:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40A3A704.4050703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > ...The other issue is that this will be one thing we can offer our > clients that no one else can offer. They worry (fairly) that if the > program is made freely available under the GPL that we would lose our > advantage. As others have noted, there are potentially ways around this. If the clients are likely to want support and customizing, you can sell that. If the program is something that can benefit considerably from updating and enhancement, and you're going to do that, you can sell the current version and release the ones that are a year old. If it's something that's useful by itself but benefits a lot from add-ons, you can make the core free and sell the add-ons. (There is at least one closed-source product, Satellite Tool Kit, where the company has found it very profitable to hand out free CDs of the core product and concentrate sales effort on add-ons.) Or, you can try to have your cake and eat it too, with a "dual license" scheme that requires only profit-making ventures to pay royalties. There are many variations of that. None of this is foolproof. Any of these approaches can be done right or wrong. They're all likely to reduce *immediate* revenues. > ...My worry though is that we are > Linux-centric and if we don't contribute back to the community that we > are based on we will be seen as trying to ride the wave of the new open > source model while holding onto the old proprietary business model and > lose respect amoung our clients... I think this is a false terror. Particularly as Linux use expands, the user community is going to get more diverse, and is going to include a lot of people who are simply using it as an operating system and haven't bought into the accompanying religion. In fact, I would say this has already happened much more than you might think, although it's not obvious because those non-religious users often are not vocal about it. Contributing back is good and should be encouraged, but I don't think it is effectively mandatory even now. Consider trying to get a commitment to a compromise: proprietary now but open source in (say) three years. (Neither side is going to be entirely happy, but that's often the sign of a good compromise.) That gives the struggling company some up-front return but still "does the right thing" in the long run. Moreover, if the company tries one of the above ideas after the transition and continues to see revenue, that will strengthen the case for shortening or eliminating the proprietary period next time. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 21:05:03 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 17:05:03 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40A3A704.4050703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <40A3E2FF.7010409@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Madison Kelly wrote: > So, I have been arguing strongly to release to program open source. > The boss and marketting guy wants to release it closed so that we can > recoupe the investment they made and feed the company. Am I > misunderstanding the Linux community? I don't want to go into the > debate > and push full out for an open source release if it hurts the company I > work for but I also want to give back to the community that has helped > me so often. Remember also, that the main power of Opensource is not about free beer, it's power lies in that other people can contribute to the software and to make it better. However, for this to happen the program should be of interest to a large enough community of users. If the host company goes out of business or moves on to other things, the program that is no longer updated and maintained is of no use to the community (or the customers who get it for free). So like others said, it depends on the nature of the program. I also like the idea of a delayed opensource release, or perhaps a Private Source license. There was a thread on this some time ago: Just my 2 cents. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAo+MHRreNkzrRRLQRArDWAKCU6vjCYgdUfu1HPXyG6ibfYG24vwCgmrK2 UJTWq9hDopQMd4WOCHkgnPE= =jCQG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 21:17:15 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 14:17:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Associating programs to file types In-Reply-To: <40A39FF6.70303-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <40A39FF6.70303@passport.ca> Message-ID: <20040513211715.95226.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks I did that before but clicked on the name "Audio" word not the triange to the left. thanks for responding. --- jim ruxton wrote: > If you are using Gnome goto > Preferences --- File types and programs and you can do it from there. I > haven't looked at how it's done in KDE. > JIm > > >When I click on an mp3 "Music Player" fires up. > > > >I'd like xmms to run instead. > > > >I use CORE 1 and would like to use a GUI to do it. > > > >How do I do that? > > > > > > > > > >===== > >The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > >absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 13 23:28:33 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 19:28:33 -0400 Subject: legal calling GPL use -was -Re:My fiscal ... In-Reply-To: <40A3A704.4050703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <402D9AA3-A535-11D8-AEA4-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 13-May-04, at 12:49, Madison Kelly wrote: > On the legal side: our program calls GPL'ed programs but the actual > program is cleanly our code. Possibly the most relevant discussions: http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#TOCGPLPluginsInNF http://www.fsf.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#MereAggregation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 04:01:36 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 21:01:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp Message-ID: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> I want to flash everything from /tmp and put mp3's there to burn to a CD. Can that cause any problems? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 04:57:22 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:57:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: <20040514040136.9730.qmail-dz3chGMHpKKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 13 May 2004, Mel Seder wrote: > I want to flash everything from /tmp and put mp3's there to burn to a CD. Flush? :) Typos, I can talk ;) > Can that cause any problems? It can really screw with the sanity of running apps. Generally not recommended. You could use lsof or fuser to see what processes (if any) have particular files locked and remove them if it is safe to do so. Don't fill /tmp to the point where nothing else can write to it. This will also give you a bad day. Preferrable is /var/tmp or another part of the filesystem. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 04:59:46 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > You could use lsof or fuser to see what processes (if any) have particular > files locked and remove them if it is safe to do so. Don't fill /tmp to Ah, "open" rather than locked. I need sleep. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 04:57:50 2004 From: cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Wakeman) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 00:57:50 -0400 Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: <20040514040136.9730.qmail-dz3chGMHpKKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040514045750.GA24110@dmz> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 09:01:36PM -0700, Mel Seder wrote: > I want to flash everything from /tmp and put mp3's there to burn to a CD. > > Can that cause any problems? files and dirs are deleted upon reboot, but some running programs might depend on files that they have placed there. Also, if /tmp is an ext2/ext3 fs (on a separate part.), the lost+found dir should not be touched. make a directory in /tmp called "mp3s" or "iso" or whatever, and delete it when you are done (or, it will be deleted on next reboot). -Jeremy -- Jeremy John Wakeman cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org www.polarhome.com/~cael linux registered user #125171 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 05:05:43 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Subject: burning MP3 blues Message-ID: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> I tried burning an audio CD using (Fedora CORE 1) Nautilus. I put it a blank CD and a burn/// window popped up. I copied mp3's to it and did a burn. It plays in my PC when i open the CD and click on a song's icon (xmms gets fired up) but the CD player app doesn't play it. As a matter of interest the following appears on the CD Player Screen. I didn't burn anything that resembled the following. ================================ "Disney's Magic Kingdom" "SpectroMagic Light Parade" "1-Spectromagic" ================================ It appears as one file/song to my stereo's CD player and no sound is produced. I've burned (burnt?) MP3's before when I was a couple years younger and I don't know what is going wrong. Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR using cdrecord with parameters? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 05:31:58 2004 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 01:31:58 -0400 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514050543.30350.qmail-hMZCeQZAeBeA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1084512717.14353.23.camel@rincewind.discworld> Sounds like you burned the MP3s as data files? To create an audio CD you need to convert them to WAVs first, then master the CD. Unless of course you have a nice CD player which can read data CDs and decode MP3s. On Fri, 2004-05-14 at 01:05, Mel Seder wrote: > I tried burning an audio CD using (Fedora CORE 1) Nautilus. > I put it a blank CD and a burn/// window popped up. > I copied mp3's to it and did a burn. > It plays in my PC when i open the CD and click on a song's icon (xmms gets > fired up) but the CD player app doesn't play it. As a matter of interest the > following appears on the CD Player Screen. I didn't burn anything that > resembled the following. > ================================ > "Disney's Magic Kingdom" > "SpectroMagic Light Parade" > "1-Spectromagic" > ================================ > It appears as one file/song to my stereo's CD player and no sound is produced. > I've burned (burnt?) MP3's before when I was a couple years younger and I don't > know what is going wrong. > > Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR > using cdrecord with parameters? > > > ===== > The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Marcus Brubaker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 13:26:00 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:26:00 -0400 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514050543.30350.qmail-hMZCeQZAeBeA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040514092600.3805d4d5.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Thu, 13 May 2004 22:05:43 -0700 (PDT) Mel Seder disseminated the following: > Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR > using cdrecord with parameters? add these to you .bashrc: function mp3dec() { for i in *.mp3; do lame --decode $i `basename $i .mp3`.wav; done; } function mp3ren() { for i in *.mp3; do mv "$i" `echo $i | tr ' ' '_'`;done; } (both are all one line) now run 'bash'. Now, in the dir with the MP3's, run 'mp3ren', then 'mp3dec'. Wait a while. When that's finished, move or delete the MP3's and run 'normalize -m *'. Once that's done, fire up GCombust, add the audio files to the layout, order them the way you want, and burn. You could use the command line like this: cdrecord -v -eject driveropts=burnfree speed=12 dev=0,0,0 -pad -audio *.wav ...but then you don't get to put the songs in your desired order, AFAIK. There are some really nice ROX apps in development which will allow you to do these things as well, all drag and drop. They do the decoding to WAV and then automagically burn an audio CD just by dragging a dir full of MP3's to the app icon. ROX filer is a much nicer experience than Nautilus, if you are interested, lemme know. -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.orderinchaos.org Kernel 2.4.22-21.tmb.1mdk Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (FiveStar) for i586 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 09:15:06 up 7 days, 19:42, 6 users, load average: 0.13, 0.13, 0.10 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." -- John Kenneth Galbraith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 13:50:22 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:50:22 -0400 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514050543.30350.qmail-hMZCeQZAeBeA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405140950.22494.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> You really did not tell us enough to help you very much. Is your CD player supposed to play MP3 files? - MP3 files are compressed audio files. An ordinary stand-alone CD player, which does not know about MP3 will not play them at all, ever, because it does not know how to decompress them. (So you must create standard CD audio files to play them there.) - Some stand-alone CD/DVD players are picky about filename conventions. A CD or DVD player that *is* supposed to be smart enough to handle MP3s may require that they have 'Joliet extensions' that use windows-style (short) filenames. My DVD player requires such 'Joliet Filename extensions'; the manual says it only recognizes file from 'Windows' computers. - CDRW and CDR media is 'darker'. Older CD players and drives could not read CDR or CD-RW disks at all. CDR and especially CD-RW disks are physically darker, and early drives may not recognize anything other than bright media. Also, as a CD player or drive gets older, it may have more difficulty with dark media. If this happens, the drive is failing , and may soon quit altogether. Duncan -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 14:40:19 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:40:19 -0400 Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: <20040514040136.9730.qmail-dz3chGMHpKKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040514103204.02bcab80@mail.interlog.com> At 12:01 AM 05/14/2004, you wrote: >I want to flash everything from /tmp and put mp3's there to burn to a CD. > >Can that cause any problems? It would be better to create a separate directory somewhere else which you can use for burning CDs/ISOs rather than using /tmp. It is usually safe to remove most files from /tmp but you need to look at what is there first rather than just blindly going 'rm -r /tmp'. X, MySQL, and some other programs create files/directories under /tmp when the programs start and they should not be deleted without shutting down the program first. Rebooting your machine will not automatically delete files from /tmp unless you have set up your machine to do so. However, it is typical to have a cron job which runs once a day(?) which will delete files/directories under /tmp which have not been used for a while (typically 7 days). I don't know about your problem burning MP3's. I don't use MP3 files at all. Any time I need to burn a CD I use XCDRoast. It makes burning easier than invoking cdrecord manually. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 14:46:58 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:46:58 -0400 Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <200405121310.15659.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121216.31274.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <200405121310.15659.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040514104519.02c73530@mail.interlog.com> At 01:10 PM 05/12/2004, Fred Nastos wrote: >On May 12, 2004 12:16 pm, Fred Nastos wrote: > > I sent this email to the fedora users list, but thought I'd try the > > local list too.. I am totally stuck.. > >I figured it out. Sorry for the bother. Fred probably realized that Fedora Core now uses CUPS for printing instead of lpr. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 14:50:39 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 14 May 2004 10:50:39 -0400 Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514045750.GA24110@dmz> Message-ID: Jeremy Wakeman writes: > files and dirs are deleted upon reboot, but some running programs might Deletion on reboot is distribution dependent. Some also [or instead] use tmpwatch(8) to delete files after they haven't been accessed for a period of time. You can also control the complete wiping of /tmp on debian by changing the TMPTIME setting in: /etc/default/rcS I prefer the tmpwatch way because it is a daily cron job. Debian seems to only take care of /tmp on rebooting and do nothing afterwards. Hmm, I just checked and there is tmpreaper for debian [based on redhat's tmpwatch]. It doesn't seem to get installed by default, though. Pedantically yours, -- g. matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 15:46:58 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:46:58 -0400 Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040514104519.02c73530-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121216.31274.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <200405121310.15659.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <6.0.1.1.2.20040514104519.02c73530@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <40A4E9F2.3020405@utoronto.ca> For applications which require a command line to be entered for printer settings, what is correct to enter when using CUPS? For example, when printing a PDF using Acroread the default printing configuration is /usr/bin/lpr. If using CUPS does that need to be changed and if so to what? Cheers, Noah Kevin Cozens wrote: > Fred probably realized that Fedora Core now uses CUPS for printing > instead of lpr. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 13:57:32 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:57:32 -0400 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514050543.30350.qmail-hMZCeQZAeBeA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40A4D04C.5050600@sympatico.ca> Mel Seder wrote: > > Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR > using cdrecord with parameters? I use gtoaster for this -- it will burn an audio CD of MP3s dropped onto it. Alternatively, I could send you a Perl script I wrote that converts the MP3s to WAVs, and writes a table-of-contents file for cdrdao. This method, though a bit involved, converts any ID3 tags to CD-TEXT, so you get the track/artists titles appearing on your player. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 15:50:12 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:50:12 -0600 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <40A4D04C.5050600-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> <40A4D04C.5050600@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040514155012.GB65701@idiom.novusordo.net> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:57:32AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Mel Seder wrote: > > > >Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR > >using cdrecord with parameters? > > I use gtoaster for this -- it will burn an audio CD of MP3s dropped onto I also recommend k3b. It works wonderfully for me. -- taa Cheops Law: Nothing ever gets built on schedule or within budget. - Robert A. Heinlein /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 16:10:13 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:10:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <200405140950.22494.dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405140950.22494.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> Message-ID: <20040514161013.11836.qmail@web40714.mail.yahoo.com> --- Duncan MacGregor wrote: > You really did not tell us enough to help you very much. > > Is your CD player supposed to play MP3 files? I suspect not but I don't really know for sure. If my memory serves me last year or a couple or years ago I took MP3 files and put them on a CD that would play anywhere, my car, stereo systems, older ghetto blasters pretty well everything I can think of. The problem is I don't know if I used Linux or Windows nor do I remember the program. I don't recall converting anything so I'm guessing that maybe I used Windows and the process to reconstruct into normal audio CD's was automated. I just stuck the CD into my DVD that is connected to the TV and it played like a charm. > > - MP3 files are compressed audio files. > An ordinary stand-alone CD player, which does not know about MP3 will not > play them at all, ever, because it does not know how to decompress them. (So > you must create standard CD audio files to play them there.) > > - Some stand-alone CD/DVD players are picky about filename conventions. > A CD or DVD player that *is* supposed to be smart enough to handle MP3s > may require that they have 'Joliet extensions' that use windows-style (short) > filenames. The filenames are free form like "Mel is blue because he can't play his burnt (spelling) music in his car.mp3) My DVD player requires such 'Joliet Filename extensions'; the > manual says it only recognizes file from 'Windows' computers. > > - CDRW and CDR media is 'darker'. > Older CD players and drives could not read CDR or CD-RW disks at all. CDR and > > especially CD-RW disks are physically darker, and early drives may not > recognize anything other than bright media. Also, as a CD player or drive > gets older, it may have more difficulty with dark media. If this happens, > the drive is failing , and may soon quit altogether. > > Duncan Thanks for the tutorial Duncan, I know a little bit more now. ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 16:15:19 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:15:19 -0400 Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <40A4E9F2.3020405-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121216.31274.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <6.0.1.1.2.20040514104519.02c73530@mail.interlog.com> <40A4E9F2.3020405@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <200405141215.20272.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On May 2004 11:46, Noah John Gellner wrote: > settings, what is correct to enter when using CUPS? For example, when > printing a PDF using Acroread the default printing configuration is > /usr/bin/lpr. If using CUPS does that need to be changed and if so to what? Why are you having a problem? Cups provides a version of lpr that works just like lpr from lpd/lprng/whatever, if cups is correctly setup you should have no problem. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 16:19:19 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514155012.GB65701-7r3UYZMxfuqyvPIx3LBjwNHuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514155012.GB65701@idiom.novusordo.net> Message-ID: <20040514161919.55263.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> --- Taavi Burns wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:57:32AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Mel Seder wrote: > > > > > >Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR > > >using cdrecord with parameters? > > > > I use gtoaster for this -- it will burn an audio CD of MP3s dropped onto > > I also recommend k3b. It works wonderfully for me. > Yes that's what I heard and read about K3B. I looked for it and saw the downlod was CVS and I don't know what do do with CVS downloads. I'm ok with "rpm -Uvh somefile.rpm" but I don't know anything more advanced. ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 16:22:35 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 09:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514155012.GB65701-7r3UYZMxfuqyvPIx3LBjwNHuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514155012.GB65701@idiom.novusordo.net> Message-ID: <20040514162235.67817.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> --- Taavi Burns wrote: > On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:57:32AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > Mel Seder wrote: > > > > > >Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR > > >using cdrecord with parameters? > > > > I use gtoaster for this -- it will burn an audio CD of MP3s dropped onto > > I also recommend k3b. It works wonderfully for me. > Yes that's what I heard and read about K3B. I looked for it and saw the downlod was CVS and I don't know what do do with CVS downloads. I'm ok with "rpm -Uvh somefile.rpm" but I don't know anything more advanced. I have gtoaster installed :-). I'm getting picked up for lunch. Will try it later, thanks for the info. Mel ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 16:44:08 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 10:44:08 -0600 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514162235.67817.qmail-hMZCeQZAeBeA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514155012.GB65701@idiom.novusordo.net> <20040514162235.67817.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040514164408.GA67570@idiom.novusordo.net> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 09:22:35AM -0700, Mel Seder wrote: > > I also recommend k3b. It works wonderfully for me. > > > Yes that's what I heard and read about K3B. I looked for it and saw the > downlod was CVS and I don't know what do do with CVS downloads. I'm ok with > "rpm -Uvh somefile.rpm" but I don't know anything more advanced. I have > gtoaster installed :-). I'm getting picked up for lunch. Will try it later, > thanks for the info. Um...they have binary downloads and instructions for many distros on their site: http://k3b.plainblack.com/index.pl/download There are binaries for SuSE, Slackware, Debian, Fedora Core 1, and RH9. Have a good lunch, and better luck burning audio later. ;) -- taa Citizenship is an attitude, a state of mind, an emotional conviction that the whole is greater than the part...and that the part should be humbly proud to sacrifice itself that the body may live. - Robert A. Heinlein /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 16:51:19 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 12:51:19 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector Message-ID: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> I investigated a bit some time ago, but I wanted to wait until I had moved to my current place. I forgot about it until the past couple of weeks when I've had to shut down several times before going to work, due to forecasts of thunderstorms. It's getting rather annoying. In addition to power surges, thunderstorms cause power flickers, so I'd need short-term power backup. Here's my specs... - surge protection for computers+peripherals. This includes phone lines (dialup and/or ADSL) as well as power lines. Clean power would be a nice benefit too. - backup power for two computers and peripherals. I'm not looking for 48 hours. I want several minutes, possibly up to an hour of power, and then a clean shutdown if power hasn't come back. - to stay on topic in this list, I obviously want a system that can communicate with 2 computers running linux (Debian), to initiate a clean shutdown. I've looked at Greytech's web site ( http://www.greytech.com ), and I see a lot of different models with specs and numbers that I don't understand. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 17:11:46 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:11:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040514165119.GA4660-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, Walter Dnes wrote: > I investigated a bit some time ago, but I wanted to wait until I had > moved to my current place. I forgot about it until the past couple of > weeks when I've had to shut down several times before going to work, > due to forecasts of thunderstorms. It's getting rather annoying. In > addition to power surges, thunderstorms cause power flickers, so I'd > need short-term power backup... I have good surge suppressors but no UPS, I leave my machines running all the time regardless of weather, and I've never had a hardware failure attributable to power problems. Power hiccups or outages sufficient to cause a crash are so rare here that I can't see a UPS being worth the trouble. At least for ordinary general-purpose computing, I would urge thinking about this carefully rather than automatically believing that a UPS is mandatory. Mind you, some of this would depend on where you are. I'm in the old City of Toronto, which has very well-behaved power. Out in some suburb on the edge of the tundra :-), power quality might be more of a concern. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 17:43:07 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:43:07 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040514165119.GA4660-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> Message-ID: <20040514174307.GA6633@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 12:51:19PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I investigated a bit some time ago, but I wanted to wait until I had > moved to my current place. I forgot about it until the past couple of > weeks when I've had to shut down several times before going to work, > due to forecasts of thunderstorms. It's getting rather annoying. In > addition to power surges, thunderstorms cause power flickers, so I'd > need short-term power backup. > > Here's my specs... > - surge protection for computers+peripherals. This includes phone > lines (dialup and/or ADSL) as well as power lines. Clean power > would be a nice benefit too. > > - backup power for two computers and peripherals. I'm not looking for > 48 hours. I want several minutes, possibly up to an hour of power, > and then a clean shutdown if power hasn't come back. > > - to stay on topic in this list, I obviously want a system that can > communicate with 2 computers running linux (Debian), to initiate a > clean shutdown. Spend the money on GOOD - power supply -- it should be able to handle reasonable voltage fluctuation. This will solve most of spontaneous lockups and resets. - surge protector -- If power goes off, you can always reboot when power comes back. But, real damage is from lightning strikes (personal experience). -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 17:49:01 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040514174307.GA6633-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514174307.GA6633@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, William Park wrote: > Spend the money on GOOD > - power supply -- it should be able to handle reasonable voltage > fluctuation. This will solve most of spontaneous lockups and > resets. I'd second that. As I noted earlier, power in my neighborhood is pretty well-behaved... but when we do get a power hiccup, two of my machines usually stay up and the third almost always crashes and reboots. Too cheap a power supply in that one. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:34:42 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 14:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514092600.3805d4d5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514092600.3805d4d5.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 14 May 2004, JoeHill wrote: > On Thu, 13 May 2004 22:05:43 -0700 (PDT) > Mel Seder disseminated the following: > > > Can anyone give me a command line for burning mp3's in /tmp/burn/ to a CDR > > using cdrecord with parameters? > > add these to you .bashrc: > > function mp3dec() { for i in *.mp3; do lame --decode $i `basename $i .mp3`.wav; > done; } > > function mp3ren() { for i in *.mp3; do mv "$i" `echo $i | tr ' ' '_'`;done; } > > (both are all one line) It's much better to use multiple lines; it's easier to read and to modify. And there's no need for the external commands basename and tr: mp3dec() { for i in *.mp3 do lame --decode "$i" "${i%.mp3}.wav" done } mp3ren() { for i in *.mp3 do mv "$i" "${i// /_}" done } -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 18:36:13 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 11:36:13 -0700 (PDT) Subject: k3b addition to yum.comf Message-ID: <20040514183613.79917.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> The k3b site said I should add the following to /etc/yum.conf which I did. [xcyb-stable] name=Fedora Core 1 ( xcyborg / stable ) baseurl=http://rpms.xcyb.org/fedora/1/stable/ [xcyb-bleeding] name=Fedora Core 1 ( xcyborg / bleeding ) baseurl=http://rpms.xcyb.org/fedora/1/bleeding/ My question concerns the [xcyb-bleeding] section. Does bleeding mean the same as beta or not yet ready for prime time? If so, I'd rather just have the [xcyb-stable] section in yum.conf. ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:08:54 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:08:54 -0400 Subject: KVM switches and X In-Reply-To: <200405131305.53935.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121206.09117.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20040513144209.7A62F4456@cbbrowne.com> <200405131305.53935.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040514190854.GD9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 13, 2004 at 01:05:53PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > I switched monitors and that has helped quite a bit. I've been working on the > machine all day and my eyes aren't bulging out yet. Not sure why the > different monitor did the trick but it did (the original monitor is great > when plugged in direct). If the new monitor terminates the signal better than the old one, you will get a lot less signal reflection, and hence much less ghosting and interference on a longer cable. It may even have a better signal cable. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:21:01 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:21:01 -0400 Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <40A4E9F2.3020405-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405121216.31274.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <200405121310.15659.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> <6.0.1.1.2.20040514104519.02c73530@mail.interlog.com> <40A4E9F2.3020405@utoronto.ca> Message-ID: <20040514192101.GE9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 11:46:58AM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > For applications which require a command line to be entered for printer > settings, what is correct to enter when using CUPS? For example, when > printing a PDF using Acroread the default printing configuration is > /usr/bin/lpr. If using CUPS does that need to be changed and if so to what? > Cheers, On debian, cupsys-client prives 'lp' command and cupsys-bsd provides 'lpr', perhaps you have similar packages. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:28:19 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:28:19 -0400 Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514045750.GA24110@dmz> Message-ID: <20040514192819.GF9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 10:50:39AM -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > Deletion on reboot is distribution dependent. Some also [or instead] use > tmpwatch(8) to delete files after they haven't been accessed for a period of > time. > > You can also control the complete wiping of /tmp on debian by changing the > TMPTIME setting in: > > /etc/default/rcS > > I prefer the tmpwatch way because it is a daily cron job. Debian seems to > only take care of /tmp on rebooting and do nothing afterwards. Hmm, I just > checked and there is tmpreaper for debian [based on redhat's tmpwatch]. It > doesn't seem to get installed by default, though. Yeah Debian does very little by default. It will do just about anything you ask it to though as soon as you ask. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:38:00 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 15:38:00 -0400 Subject: Prohibiting selected users from booting into Windows In-Reply-To: <20040513045101.18510.qmail-aqc0IV44L2qA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040513045101.18510.qmail@web40712.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040514193800.GG9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, May 12, 2004 at 09:51:01PM -0700, Mel Seder wrote: > Our kids are coming for a few days over the May long weekend. They both are > computer users and I don't want them running Windows on my PC. > > Currently when the computer boots you can select Windows or Linux. Is there > some kind of autoexec I can put on windows that requires a password to > continue. If the password isn't keyed in I want the PC to either shut down > (preferably) or go to grub's boot screen. > > Any ideas? Add a password to the windows entry in grub (and if you are not using grub as the primary boot loader, then what are you doing wrong? :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 19:40:21 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 14 May 2004 15:40:21 -0400 Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: <20040514192819.GF9500-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514045750.GA24110@dmz> <20040514192819.GF9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > > I prefer the tmpwatch way because it is a daily cron job. Debian seems to > > only take care of /tmp on rebooting and do nothing afterwards. Hmm, I just > > checked and there is tmpreaper for debian [based on redhat's tmpwatch]. It > > doesn't seem to get installed by default, though. > > Yeah Debian does very little by default. It will do just about anything > you ask it to though as soon as you ask. It's still the best distro for everyone. no exceptions. especially for those Gentoo freaks :) -- g. matthew rice starnix inc. phone: 905-771-0017 x242 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 20:46:50 2004 From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 13:46:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <200405141215.20272.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405141215.20272.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040514204650.66053.qmail@web14521.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fraser Campbell wrote: > On May 2004 11:46, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > settings, what is correct to enter when using > CUPS? For example, when > > printing a PDF using Acroread the default printing > configuration is > > /usr/bin/lpr. If using CUPS does that need to be > changed and if so to what? You can try using lpr-cups. That worked for me. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 21:17:09 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 17:17:09 -0400 Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: References: <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514192819.GF9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200405141717.09370.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 14 May 2004 15:40, G. Matthew Rice wrote: > > Yeah Debian does very little by default. ?It will do just about anything > > you ask it to though as soon as you ask. > > It's still the best distro for everyone. ?no exceptions. ?especially for > those Gentoo freaks :) Yup. dpkg is slow but compiling from source (???), come on ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 22:20:16 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:20:16 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040514165119.GA4660-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> Message-ID: <40A54620.4070209@rogers.com> I have a couple of APC 500 VA units that I bought from Staples. The last one was $50. There is Linux software for it, from a couple of sources. When the power fails, messages pop up and e-mail is sent to root. If the outage is long enough, it shuts the computer down. It lasts about 20 minutes, with my Athlon XP 1700+ system. The UPS has both backup and surge protected outlets and also a surge protector for phone lines. It connects to the computer via USB. Walter Dnes wrote: > I investigated a bit some time ago, but I wanted to wait until I had > moved to my current place. I forgot about it until the past couple of > weeks when I've had to shut down several times before going to work, > due to forecasts of thunderstorms. It's getting rather annoying. In > addition to power surges, thunderstorms cause power flickers, so I'd > need short-term power backup. > > Here's my specs... > - surge protection for computers+peripherals. This includes phone > lines (dialup and/or ADSL) as well as power lines. Clean power > would be a nice benefit too. > > - backup power for two computers and peripherals. I'm not looking for > 48 hours. I want several minutes, possibly up to an hour of power, > and then a clean shutdown if power hasn't come back. > > - to stay on topic in this list, I obviously want a system that can > communicate with 2 computers running linux (Debian), to initiate a > clean shutdown. > > I've looked at Greytech's web site ( http://www.greytech.com ), and I > see a lot of different models with specs and numbers that I don't > understand. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 22:24:06 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:24:06 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > Mind you, some of this would depend on where you are. I'm in the old > City of Toronto, which has very well-behaved power. Out in some suburb > on the edge of the tundra :-), power quality might be more of a concern. Such as Scarberia? ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 22:36:03 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 18:36:03 -0400 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514092600.3805d4d5.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040514183603.558b5fc3.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 14 May 2004 14:34:42 -0400 (EDT) Chris F.A. Johnson disseminated the following: > It's much better to use multiple lines; it's easier to read and to > modify. Will that work as an entry in your .bashrc? > And there's no need for the external commands basename and tr: I copied and pasted these eons ago from deadman.org, I think. Wouldn't know how to write anything like this myself anyhow :-D > mp3dec() { > for i in *.mp3 > do > lame --decode "$i" "${i%.mp3}.wav" > done > } > > mp3ren() { > for i in *.mp3 > do > mv "$i" "${i// /_}" > done > } -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.orderinchaos.org Kernel 2.4.22-21.tmb.1mdk Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (FiveStar) for i586 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 18:33:50 up 8 days, 5:01, 7 users, load average: 0.15, 0.09, 0.02 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold..." -- William Butler Yeats -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Fri May 14 23:04:13 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 19:04:13 -0400 Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <20040514204650.66053.qmail-78ZWb/MBLhGA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514204650.66053.qmail@web14521.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405141904.13049.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> On Friday 14 May 2004 04:46 pm, Martin C wrote: > --- Fraser Campbell > wrote: > > On May 2004 11:46, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > > settings, what is correct to enter when using > > > when printing a PDF using Acroread the default printing > > configuration is > > > > > /usr/bin/lpr. kprinter works for me. (Using Linux Mandrake 10.0) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 00:06:51 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 14 May 2004 20:06:51 -0400 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: <20040514183603.558b5fc3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514092600.3805d4d5.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040514183603.558b5fc3.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: JoeHill writes: > On Fri, 14 May 2004 14:34:42 -0400 (EDT) > Chris F.A. Johnson disseminated the following: > > > It's much better to use multiple lines; it's easier to read and to > > modify. > > Will that work as an entry in your .bashrc? .bashrc is just a script like any other bash script. In other words, any valid bash syntax is valid in your .bashrc and the same is true of the reverse. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 03:04:41 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:04:41 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? Message-ID: <40A588C9.5030401@onlink.net> I have an HP DJ 692c. It's output was not great so I gave it to my daughter. Then it got worse - it started printing only the top half of the letters. I even saw that problem in the HP Toolbox which I just installed tonight on a Windows box so I could try to clean the printer cartridge. Now it's worse still - Windows claims that the cartridges are not installed. THe hp site advises to remove and replace the cartridges which did not help. The only maintenance pages I had was "How to clean your printer to prevent black ink streaks" which I followed but, of course, streaking is not the problem I am having. I'm wondering if the printer cartridge (which I've been subjecting to an ink refill system in the last year) is so gummed up with ink now that a contact is covered thereby fooling the printer that there is no cartridge. Does this sound like scraping away at the printer cartridge with Q-tips and distilled water would lay the conectors bare again? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 03:42:03 2004 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:42:03 -0400 Subject: Password Prompting in Perl? Message-ID: <1084592522.16890.5.camel@rincewind.discworld> Anyone know an easy way to prompt for a password at the command line in perl? I need to be able to get the string without the terminal echoing back what is typed but I've failed to find anything online. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, -- Marcus Brubaker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 03:48:38 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:48:38 -0400 Subject: Password Prompting in Perl? In-Reply-To: <1084592522.16890.5.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org> References: <1084592522.16890.5.camel@rincewind.discworld> Message-ID: <40A59316.106@onlink.net> Marcus Brubaker wrote: >Anyone know an easy way to prompt for a password at the command line in >perl? I need to be able to get the string without the terminal echoing >back what is typed but I've failed to find anything online. Any help >would be appreciated. > >Regards, > > lwp? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 04:12:53 2004 From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:12:53 -0400 Subject: Password Prompting in Perl? In-Reply-To: <1084592522.16890.5.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org> References: <1084592522.16890.5.camel@rincewind.discworld> Message-ID: <20040515041253.GA1561@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 11:42:03PM -0400, Marcus Brubaker wrote: >Anyone know an easy way to prompt for a password at the command line in >perl? I need to be able to get the string without the terminal echoing >back what is typed but I've failed to find anything online. Any help >would be appreciated. Here's what I found in the Perl Cookbook: 15.10. Reading Passwords Problem You want to read input from the keyboard without the keystrokes being echoed on the screen. For instance, you want to read passwords as passwd does, i.e. without displaying the user's password. Solution Use the CPAN module Term::ReadKey, set the input mode to noecho, and then use ReadLine: use Term::ReadKey; ReadMode('noecho'); $password = ReadLine(0); Discussion Example 15.3 shows how to verify a user's password. If your system uses shadow passwords, only the superuser can get the encrypted form of the password with getpwuid. Everyone else just gets * as the password field of the database, which is useless for verifying passwords. Example 15.3: checkuser #!/usr/bin/perl -w # checkuser - demonstrates reading and checking a user's password use Term::ReadKey; print "Enter your password: "; ReadMode 'noecho'; $password = ReadLine 0; chomp $password; ReadMode 'normal'; print "\n"; ($username, $encrypted) = ( getpwuid $< )[0,1]; if (crypt($password, $encrypted) ne $encrypted) { die "You are not $username\n"; } else { print "Welcome, $username\n"; } See Also The documentation for the Term::ReadKey module from CPAN; the crypt and getpwuid functions in Chapter 3 of Programming Perl and in perlfunc (1), which demonstrate using the stty (1) command; your system's crypt (3) and passwd (5) manpages (if you have them) -- yours, William -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 04:46:54 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:46:54 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <40A588C9.5030401-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A588C9.5030401@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040515044654.GB28870@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Fri, May 14, 2004 at 11:04:41PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > I have an HP DJ 692c. It's output was not great so I gave it to my > daughter. Then it got worse - it started printing only the top half of > the letters. I even saw that problem in the HP Toolbox which I just > installed tonight on a Windows box so I could try to clean the printer > cartridge. > > Now it's worse still - Windows claims that the cartridges are not > installed. THe hp site advises to remove and replace the cartridges > which did not help. The only maintenance pages I had was "How to clean > your printer to prevent black ink streaks" which I followed but, of > course, streaking is not the problem I am having. > > I'm wondering if the printer cartridge (which I've been subjecting to an > ink refill system in the last year) is so gummed up with ink now that a > contact is covered thereby fooling the printer that there is no > cartridge. Does this sound like scraping away at the printer cartridge > with Q-tips and distilled water would lay the conectors bare again? Are you ever replacing the cartridge? Officially, ink cartidges are designed to be used once and thrown out. They are actually better than that, which is why you can use refill kits to re-use the same cartridge instead of throwing it out and buying a new one; but you still need to replace them sometimes. I think 2 refills is okay, but it may depend upon brand and luck whether you get 1 or 4 instead. It sure sounds like some of the components of your cartridge have broken down. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 04:57:48 2004 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ron Scott) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 00:57:48 -0400 Subject: [Fwd:hpdj692c...salvage or burial?]] Message-ID: <40A5A34C.1070605@sympatico.ca> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TLUG]: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:04:41 -0400 From: Chris Aitken Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Organization: Shiny Pine Music To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org I have an HP DJ 692c. It's output was not great so I gave it to my daughter. Then it got worse - it started printing only the top half of the letters. I even saw that problem in the HP Toolbox which I just installed tonight on a Windows box so I could try to clean the printer cartridge. Now it's worse still - Windows claims that the cartridges are not installed. THe hp site advises to remove and replace the cartridges which did not help. The only maintenance pages I had was "How to clean your printer to prevent black ink streaks" which I followed but, of course, streaking is not the problem I am having. I'm wondering if the printer cartridge (which I've been subjecting to an ink refill system in the last year) is so gummed up with ink now that a contact is covered thereby fooling the printer that there is no cartridge. Does this sound like scraping away at the printer cartridge with Q-tips and distilled water would lay the conectors bare again? Chris For cleaning contacts I would suggest using isopropyl alcohol, 91% or 99 %, NOT 76%. Put several drops on one end of a Qtip, wipe the contacts, then switch to the dry end of the Qtip and wipe up the alcohol with the dissolved contaminates. Caution - don't smoke while you do this:=| To clean the printing end of the head put warm water on part of a piece of plotting paper. Wipe the head on the wet area, then wipe it on the dry area. Repeat several times. If you have been refilling the cartridge, here may be salt crystals and other contaminates around the holes where the ink normally comes out, thus blocking the hole. The warm water should disolve most of them. Have fun Ron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 06:42:43 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 02:42:43 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <40A54706.1060408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> Message-ID: <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> On 14-May-04, at 18:24, James Knott wrote: > Henry Spencer wrote: >> Mind you, some of this would depend on where you are. I'm in the old >> City of Toronto, which has very well-behaved power. Out in some >> suburb >> on the edge of the tundra :-), power quality might be more of a >> concern. > > Such as Scarberia? ;-) I had dirty, bouncy, and spiky power out in Scarberia a few years ago. It left my motherboard crippled (dead IDE1 channel, so I'm stuck with my HD and burner on the same channel!). I recently then purchased a UPS with the spoils of purchasing Rogers cable modem service via Future Shop (sure, I'll take $100 for service I'm going to get anyway). The only power outage that I recall having since getting the UPS lasted over an hour and a half, so the UPS wasn't much use apart from properly shutting the equipment down after 20 minutes. The disturbing part is how often the UPS kicked in for under 1 second, at around 6am. I don't know what someone's doing with the power grid in my building at that hour almost every day, but I'm sure glad my machine's not feeling the effects. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 13:47:41 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 09:47:41 -0400 Subject: burning MP3 blues In-Reply-To: References: <20040514050543.30350.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514092600.3805d4d5.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040514183603.558b5fc3.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040515094741.638699e4.joehill@sympatico.ca> On 14 May 2004 20:06:51 -0400 Tim Writer disseminated the following: > > Will that work as an entry in your .bashrc? > > .bashrc is just a script like any other bash script. In other words, any > valid bash syntax is valid in your .bashrc and the same is true of the > reverse. "Never thought of that. What a silly bunt!" :-D Thanks for the tip. -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.orderinchaos.org Kernel 2.4.22-21.tmb.1mdk Mandrake Linux release 9.2 (FiveStar) for i586 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 09:46:35 up 8 days, 20:14, 5 users, load average: 0.05, 0.19, 0.11 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Wealth is the relentless enemy of understanding." -- John Kenneth Galbraith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 13:59:18 2004 From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 06:59:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Password Prompting in Perl? In-Reply-To: <1084592522.16890.5.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org> References: <1084592522.16890.5.camel@rincewind.discworld> Message-ID: <20040515135918.22613.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> use Term::ReadKey http://search.cpan.org/~kjalb/TermReadKey-2.14/ReadKey.pm Qiang --- Marcus Brubaker wrote: > Anyone know an easy way to prompt for a password at the command line in > perl? I need to be able to get the string without the terminal echoing > back what is typed but I've failed to find anything online. Any help > would be appreciated. > > Regards, > -- > Marcus Brubaker > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 14:12:47 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 10:12:47 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> Message-ID: <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> Taavi Burns wrote: > > I had dirty, bouncy, and spiky power out in Scarberia a few years ago. We still have weird blackouts at Kennedy and Eglinton. Not quite as many as we had when we first came here (it used to be one hours-long blackout every month or so), but it's still a bit iffy. We had an underground power cable blow near the SRT last week, which was amusingly loud. We've done okay without UPSs and surge protectors, so far. And anyway, what's with this crazy country that the power goes out every time it rains a bit? We lost power to what the news called a "Severe Storm", but what we in Scotland call "Autumn". Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 16:21:53 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 15 May 2004 12:21:53 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <40A6255F.1000309-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: "Stewart C. Russell" writes: > And anyway, what's with this crazy country that the power goes out every time > it rains a bit? We lost power to what the news called a "Severe Storm", but > what we in Scotland call "Autumn". IIRC, power lines in the U.K. are buried. I'm not a power systems engineer but I expect that alone would make the grid more robust. Also, I don't think there's much doubt that (in Ontario at least) we haven't been making the necessary investment to properly maintain the power grid. Getting back on topic, last summer I bought myself an APC Back-UPS Office 500. It's a "power bar" style UPS with 3 battery powered sockets and 3 surge only. I got it at Above All on Bloor St. and was lucky enough to get the older model with serial ports so no messing with USB (although I understand the USB models are now supported by nut). While we have frequent short power outages in the Summer, since then, excluding the big blackout, I've had zero downtime due to power loss. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 17:06:57 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:06:57 -0400 Subject: k3b addition to yum.comf In-Reply-To: <20040514183613.79917.qmail-pW1lCIDfJjmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514183613.79917.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405151306.57155.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> On May 14, 2004 02:36 pm, Mel Seder wrote: > The k3b site said I should add the following to /etc/yum.conf which I did. > > [xcyb-stable] > name=Fedora Core 1 ( xcyborg / stable ) > baseurl=http://rpms.xcyb.org/fedora/1/stable/ > > [xcyb-bleeding] > name=Fedora Core 1 ( xcyborg / bleeding ) > baseurl=http://rpms.xcyb.org/fedora/1/bleeding/ > > My question concerns the [xcyb-bleeding] section. Does bleeding mean the > same as beta or not yet ready for prime time? If so, I'd rather just have > the [xcyb-stable] section in yum.conf. Bleeding usually means beta, maybe even alpha. Stick with stable for a while, and see if it works for you. If after some use, you find that k3b isn't working as you think it should, add the bleeding section. You can of course just go to http://rpms.xcyb.org/fedora/1/... and download the rpm yourself. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 17:35:38 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 13:35:38 -0400 Subject: printing In-Reply-To: <20040513031622.14106.qmail-n4ilzKb4UWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040513031622.14106.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405151335.38930.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> On May 12, 2004 11:16 pm, James wrote: > could you post the solution to your problem instead of a 'i figured it out' > ? not that i need the information, but your solution may be useful to > someone later. Yes, sure. Sorry. Before the upgrade it seemed like /usr/sbin/alternatives was setup to point to the LPRng printing equivalents. After the upgrade only cups was installed. So I had to relink all the all the links in /etc/alternatives to the proper cups binaries. Actually, I just found this, which explains things a little better: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/2004-January/msg00047.html > --- Fred Nastos wrote: > > On May 12, 2004 12:16 pm, Fred Nastos wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I sent this email to the fedora users list, but thought I'd try the > > > local list too.. I am totally stuck.. > > > > I figured it out. Sorry for the bother. > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Movies - Buy advance tickets for 'Shrek 2' > http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- _______________________________________________________ Fred Nastos Ph.D. Candidate Department of Physics Tel: 416-978-4364 University of Toronto Fax: 416-978-2537 60 St. George Street Toronto, ON M5S 1A7 Web: www.physics.utoronto.ca/~nastos _______________________________________________________ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-yzlPDbdf3LosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 20:02:17 2004 From: robert-yzlPDbdf3LosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Robert McDonald) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:02:17 -0400 Subject: Threat for Linux and Open Source References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <006501c43ab7$8a105990$0b01a8c0@2k> Here is an email I received from Mandrake, It comes as no suprise who is behind this...I guess the scary part is this.. "to be adopted by the European Council of Ministers on Monday May, 17th, without further debate!"Although this appears to be a european debate any idea how this might affect those of us who have a considerable investment in Linux ( time and money ) It appears as if M$ (like the US army) is chossing to fight it's battles across the pond.Robert-------------------------Flash: EU Software Patent Legislation: a real threat for Linux and Open Source Mandrakesoft would like to alert all users and the software community at large about a recent clandestine attack by proprietary interest through covert adoption of EU Software Patent Legislation. In direct contravention of the recent vote by the European Parliament to curtail Software Patents, the Irish Presidency of the European Union has surreptitiously reinstated unlimited software patent language into the text of a statement to be adopted by the European Council of Ministers on Monday May, 17th, without further debate! The new text, if adopted, will extend Software Patents to every piece of software, including computer programs, data structures, and process descriptions. This will directly harm most software firms and all Open Source projects unable to pay patent licensing tribute, and amounts to an appropriation of the public domain by proprietary interests. A direct beneficiary will be a new class of pure patent companies without any real business or contribution to employment, which will use the threat of litigation to extort payments. Of note is that a sponsor of the Irish Presidency is Microsoft, currently building a large patent portfolio. If the Software Patent text is adopted, Microsoft may use this patent portfolio against Linux and other Open Source projects. Mandrakesoft would like to forewarn and mobilize its users and the software community about the very real threat of such a law. Please contact the media, your political representatives, and your government, and urge them to vote against unlimited Software Patents and to revert to the previous European Parliament position. For further information please see the following links: http://swpat.ffii.org/journal/04/cons0507/index.en.html http://kwiki.ffii.org/SwpatcninoEn -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 22:28:37 2004 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 18:28:37 -0400 Subject: Password Prompting in Perl? In-Reply-To: <20040515135918.22613.qmail-0vEVcxlXFHuA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040515135918.22613.qmail@web40210.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1084660116.16890.76.camel@rincewind.discworld> Ah HA! Knew there was such a thing out there. Thanks James and William! On Sat, 2004-05-15 at 09:59, James wrote: > use Term::ReadKey > > http://search.cpan.org/~kjalb/TermReadKey-2.14/ReadKey.pm > > > Qiang > > --- Marcus Brubaker wrote: > > Anyone know an easy way to prompt for a password at the command line in > > perl? I need to be able to get the string without the terminal echoing > > back what is typed but I've failed to find anything online. Any help > > would be appreciated. > > > > Regards, > > -- > > Marcus Brubaker > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. > http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Marcus Brubaker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 05:17:39 2004 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: 16 May 2004 01:17:39 -0400 Subject: STDOUT Message-ID: <1084684659.6525.20.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> I have a perl program that gets its input from another program's STDOUT. This program process STDIN and then decides what it should write to STDOUT. In many cases, it will decide to write precisely what it received on STDIN. It will only know for sure after it's finished reading STDIN. Currently, I'm storing everything from STDIN to an intermediate file, making my decision and then writing either a hard-coded message or the intermediate file to STDOUT. Is there a way that doesn't require the intermediate file? -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 07:13:56 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 03:13:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: STDOUT In-Reply-To: <1084684659.6525.20.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1084684659.6525.20.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 16 May 2004, Alan Cohen wrote: > I have a perl program that gets its input from another program's STDOUT. > > This program process STDIN and then decides what it should write to > STDOUT. In many cases, it will decide to write precisely what it > received on STDIN. It will only know for sure after it's finished > reading STDIN. > > Currently, I'm storing everything from STDIN to an intermediate file, > making my decision and then writing either a hard-coded message or the > intermediate file to STDOUT. > > Is there a way that doesn't require the intermediate file? You could use a "named pipe" (FIFO) which is effectively an intermediate file sitting in memory rather than on disk. Named pipes sit on the filesystem like other files but store their contents in memory. Not sure if it is really much an of advantage but there you have it. See man mknod and Google for more info on named pipes. I suppose you could read your data into some sort of data structure you create in memory but this assumes you know what sort of data you are going to get. Ditto for reading it into a database (for maximum fun). Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 14:57:54 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 10:57:54 -0400 Subject: STDOUT In-Reply-To: <1084684659.6525.20.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1084684659.6525.20.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040516105348.02c5e490@mail.interlog.com> At 01:17 AM 05/16/2004, Alan Cohen wrote: >I have a perl program that gets its input from another program's STDOUT. [snip] >Currently, I'm storing everything from STDIN to an intermediate file, >making my decision and then writing either a hard-coded message or the >intermediate file to STDOUT. > >Is there a way that doesn't require the intermediate file? It would depend in part on the amount of data being passed to your Perl script. One option would be to start the Perl script with: @lines = ; This will cause the program to read in everything passed to it in to memory in one fell swoop. You can then iterate through the contents of the lines array to make the decision you need to make. Then you would either write your hard-coded message or 'print (@lines);' to output the original file. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 15:26:00 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:26:00 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <40A78808.8080204@sympatico.ca> > IIRC, power lines in the U.K. are buried. I'm not a power systems engineer > but I expect that alone would make the grid more robust. Yeah, they're buried, which makes them weatherproof, but not immune to backhoe damage (which makes an amusingly loud bang if one cuts through a 33kV cable). cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 15:41:47 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 11:41:47 -0400 Subject: STDOUT In-Reply-To: <1084684659.6525.20.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1084684659.6525.20.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <40A78BBB.9040909@sympatico.ca> Alan Cohen wrote: > I have a perl program that gets its input from another program's STDOUT. > > Is there a way that doesn't require the intermediate file? Yes, many. Before I give a solution, I'd recommend that Perl Monks will give better answers than any generic Linux group. Though there are good Perl people on this list (hi tom, hi talexb) Perl Monks will have the answer to your question. Rather than writing to an intermediate file, Kenin suggested slurping the whole file into an array. There are many ways to do this. Here's an easier to follow, but slightly verbose method: #!/usr/bin/perl -w # a toy program that will print all of STDIN to STDOUT if it found # a line with just the number 7 on its own. use strict; my @lines; while (<>) { # you might want to do some pre-processing here push @lines, $_; # append every line to the array } print @lines if grep( /^7$/, @lines ); exit; As ever, TIMTOWTDI. Stewart -- $,="\n";foreach(split('',"\3\3\3c>\0>c\177cc\0~c~``\0cc\177cc")) {$a++;$_=unpack('B8',$_);tr,01,\40#,;$b[$a%6].=$_};print @b,"\n" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 18:04:21 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 16 May 2004 14:04:21 -0400 Subject: STDOUT In-Reply-To: References: <1084684659.6525.20.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: Robert Brockway writes: > On Sun, 16 May 2004, Alan Cohen wrote: > > > I have a perl program that gets its input from another program's STDOUT. > > > > This program process STDIN and then decides what it should write to > > STDOUT. In many cases, it will decide to write precisely what it > > received on STDIN. It will only know for sure after it's finished > > reading STDIN. > > > > Currently, I'm storing everything from STDIN to an intermediate file, > > making my decision and then writing either a hard-coded message or the > > intermediate file to STDOUT. > > > > Is there a way that doesn't require the intermediate file? > > You could use a "named pipe" (FIFO) which is effectively an intermediate > file sitting in memory rather than on disk. Not really. A named pipe is functionally equivalent to an ordinary pipe only it has a name in the file system. As a stupid example, these two shell snippets are roughly equivalent: ls -1 | wc -l mknod pipe p ls -1 > pipe & wc -l < pipe Typically, ordinary pipes are used to connect related processes (i.e. processes with a common parent) whereas named pipes are used to connect unrelated processes such as a client and a server. A good example is /dev/initctl. From the init manpage: INTERFACE Init listens on a fifo in /dev, /dev/initctl, for messages. Telinit uses this to communicate with init. In response to the original poster, an important question is whether you need (or might need) to see the entire input before making your decision. If you need to see all of it, you may as well use a temporary file. The logic will probably be easier and you will be able to handle arbitrarily large files (as long as you have sufficient tmp space). If you only need to see a small portion of it, you can do something like this: my $buf = ''; my $pass_through = 0; while (<>) { if ($pass_through) { print $_; } else { $buf .= $_; if (seen_enough($buf)) { # do special stuff print $buf; $pass_through = 1; } } } -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat May 15 06:59:58 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 09:59:58 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040514165119.GA4660-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> Message-ID: You do not say how many computers. Typically a 400VA UPS with 12V 7Ah battery will keep a Pentium machine and a 15" monitor going for up to 20 minutes. Most power failures will be under 5 minutes. There is a classification for this, ask your electricity company. All UPSs with serial connection will talk to Linux ups daemons, in so-called 'dumb' mode, using a simple serial cable: means you get power failure/power back signalling, and low battery indication. Smart implies you have real time display of voltage, battery status, amps, etc. I have not yet used a UPS with USB with a Linux machine. As a simple rule of thumb, add the nameplate ratings of the monitor and computer (e.g. 500W PSU + 100W monitor = 600W) and get a UPS with similar nameplate rating (600VA). this is not entirely correct but it should be close enough for your purposes (the VAs are Ws corrected for the power factor, aka caos phi. VAs are also known as real power. Some equipment has really high cos phi). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 21:45:32 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 17:45:32 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: References: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> Message-ID: <40A7E0FC.1010600@rogers.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > You do not say how many computers. Typically a 400VA UPS with 12V 7Ah > battery will keep a Pentium machine and a 15" monitor going for up to 20 > minutes. Most power failures will be under 5 minutes. There is a > classification for this, ask your electricity company. > > All UPSs with serial connection will talk to Linux ups daemons, in > so-called 'dumb' mode, using a simple serial cable: means you get power > failure/power back signalling, and low battery indication. Smart implies > you have real time display of voltage, battery status, amps, etc. I have > not yet used a UPS with USB with a Linux machine. I have two USB connected APC 500 VA UPS. They work fine, complete with status messages and shut down. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 23:49:43 2004 From: cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Wakeman) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 19:49:43 -0400 Subject: unresolved symbols Message-ID: <20040516234943.GA12876@dmz> Ahh!! I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but the kernel I just compiled (it's a 2.4.22 with openmosix patch applied) has problems with modules. When I run: make dep clean bzImage modules modules_install cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-openmosix-3 everything compiles and installs. However, depmod reports unresolved symbols for (AFAICS) *all* modules. I have tried mrproper and recompile, but I'm stuck. I've never had this happen for all modules, and google didn't give me many leads to run down (none helped). What am I missing? Am I going to have a problem with module-init-tools (module handling for 2.6 kernels)? Docs say it should "silently" use old tools when it finds an older kernel . . . perhaps it doesn't? os: debian sarge kernel: 2.4.22 with openmosix patch # 3 gcc: 3.3.3 depmod: module-init-tools 3.0-pre10 -- Jeremy John Wakeman cael-JTkAzvGkdyMrpQx6IzTi3laTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org www.polarhome.com/~cael linux registered user #125171 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 01:30:20 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:30:20 -0400 Subject: unresolved symbols In-Reply-To: <20040516234943.GA12876-oDRTo6QHVhA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040516234943.GA12876@dmz> Message-ID: <40A815AC.6080407@truxtar.com> Hi, Jeremy Wakeman wrote: > When I run: > > make dep clean bzImage modules modules_install > cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-openmosix-3 I believe you also need to copy cp arch/i386/boot/System.map /boot/System.map-openmosix-3 into the boot directory as well, although I am not 100% sure on that one. > > everything compiles and installs. However, depmod reports unresolved > symbols for (AFAICS) *all* modules. I have tried mrproper and > recompile, but I'm stuck. I've never had this happen for all modules, > and google didn't give me many leads to run down (none helped). Since you are using Debian, may I recommend you use the Debian way of compiling a kernel (kernel-kpkg). Here is moer info: That will make sure all the proper files are included in the package and installed. > What am I missing? Am I going to have a problem with module-init-tools > (module handling for 2.6 kernels)? Docs say it should "silently" use > old tools when it finds an older kernel . . . perhaps it doesn't? No, the error you are getting comes from the old tools which are being used in place of the new ones. You are OK in this area. -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 01:32:30 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:32:30 -0400 Subject: Website framework In-Reply-To: <001c01c42bf7$66156090$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> References: <001c01c42bf7$66156090$6401a8c0@main> Message-ID: <1061A160-A7A2-11D8-9C25-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 26-Apr-04, at 21:31, Sidney Shapiro wrote: > Does anyone have suggestions for an open source framework to build this > on? We have been looking at drupal (too complicated), PHPNuke (A > possible, but it would require a lot of work), Mambo (not sure), ??? I found myself @ www.opensourcecms.com and thought of you . "This site was created to give you the opportunity to "try out" some of the best open source and free php/mysql based software systems in the world. You can log in as the administrator to any site here, thus allowing you to decide which system best suits your needs. "Each system is deleted and reinstalled every two hours. This allows you to be the administrator of any system here without fear of messing anything up. I have very limited experience in this area , but the amount of available systems is substantial . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 01:48:17 2004 From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 21:48:17 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <40A78808.8080204-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> <40A78808.8080204@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040517014817.GA25881@sophocles> On Sun, May 16, 2004 at 11:26:00AM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > >IIRC, power lines in the U.K. are buried. I'm not a power systems engineer > >but I expect that alone would make the grid more robust. > > Yeah, they're buried, which makes them weatherproof, but not immune to > backhoe damage (which makes an amusingly loud bang if one cuts through a > 33kV cable). But it's not so amusing when the aforementioned backhoe cuts through a 6kV cable in the morning and results in not being able to do much with anything that uses electricty (computers and food-cooking appiances, mainly) until the next day. -- Seneca seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 03:33:53 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 23:33:53 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: References: <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200405162333.53775.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Saturday 15 May 2004 12:21, Tim Writer wrote: > Getting back on topic, last summer I bought myself an APC Back-UPS Office > 500. ?It's a "power bar" style UPS with 3 battery powered sockets and 3 > surge only. ?I got it at Above All on Bloor St. and was lucky enough to get > the older model with serial ports so no messing with USB (although I > understand the USB models are now supported by nut). ?While we have > frequent short power outages in the Summer, since then, excluding the big > blackout, I've had zero downtime due to power loss. I know you've had good luck with those Tim but I am not impressed by them. My first was an older style powerbar (just slightly bulkier than the one you have), it was an end-of-line and the battery was toast in less than a year. My second was the same style as yours just the lower powered 350. One day my wife turned on the vaccuum cleaner and my computer rebooted, not impressed. I now have another APC unit (succour for punishment) it's an XP1000 ... you can pick them up for around $150 from Costco or Future Shop. If this one turns out to be unimpressive as well I think I'll give up on UPS equipment (the consumer priced stuff) and just stick with surge suppression. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun May 16 17:45:44 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 16 May 2004 13:45:44 -0400 Subject: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? In-Reply-To: <40A21A46.2060003-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A21A46.2060003@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040516134544.47f7b279.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 12 May 2004 08:36:22 -0400 "Stewart C. Russell" wrote: > > If you're using TeX, you could created PostScript files using dvips, > then use Angus Duggan's pstools to hack the files about. Once you've got > PS you like, you can create PDF using ps2pdf. But that might break your > workflow if you're using dvipdfm graphics specials. Stewart, I strongly recommend pdflatex for converting LaTeX to PDF. The last time I tried ps2pdf on a LaTeX generated PostScript file, the fonts were just awful. When I read through the LaTeX documentation on how to select PostScript fonts, I discovered pdflatex. Pdflatex get the fonts right. Also, it recognizes your sections, and uses them to create a navigation structure within the PDF file. If you are determined to use GNU/Linux to create PDF files, LaTeX and pdflatex probably are the best tools for the job. Of course, this does not answer Alex Maynard's original question about how to copy and paste PDF files. -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 04:16:58 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 00:16:58 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <200405162333.53775.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> <200405162333.53775.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040517041658.GA3190@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, May 16, 2004 at 11:33:53PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > I know you've had good luck with those Tim but I am not impressed by > them. My first was an older style powerbar (just slightly bulkier > than the one you have), it was an end-of-line and the battery was > toast in less than a year. > > My second was the same style as yours just the lower powered 350. One > day my wife turned on the vaccuum cleaner and my computer rebooted, > not impressed. I now have another APC unit (succour for punishment) > it's an XP1000 ... you can pick them up for around $150 from Costco or > Future Shop. If this one turns out to be unimpressive as well I think > I'll give up on UPS equipment (the consumer priced stuff) and just > stick with surge suppression. I'll say again... You're spending money to learn the same lesson over and over again. Try something else. Get a decent power supply (I don't mean wattage here). Then, try turning on the vacuum. -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From goldwyn_r-YSGFQ8SKJZVDPfheJLI6IQ at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 03:34:12 2004 From: goldwyn_r-YSGFQ8SKJZVDPfheJLI6IQ at public.gmane.org (Goldwyn Rodrigues) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 09:04:12 +0530 Subject: unresolved symbols References: <20040516234943.GA12876@dmz> Message-ID: <005401c43bce$603e1680$e5ec41db@Alwyn> > > I have no idea what I'm doing wrong, but the kernel I just compiled > (it's a 2.4.22 with openmosix patch applied) has problems with modules. > When I run: > > make dep clean bzImage modules modules_install > cp arch/i386/boot/bzImage /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.22-openmosix-3 > > everything compiles and installs. However, depmod reports unresolved > symbols for (AFAICS) *all* modules. I have tried mrproper and > recompile, but I'm stuck. I've never had this happen for all modules, > and google didn't give me many leads to run down (none helped). > > What am I missing? Am I going to have a problem with module-init-tools > (module handling for 2.6 kernels)? Docs say it should "silently" use > old tools when it finds an older kernel . . . perhaps it doesn't? It is possible that even after installing module-init-tools is the problem. Check the version of modprobe/insmod giving the -V option. Kernel 2.4 uses modutils (older module handling tools) wheras 2.6 uses module-init-tools. When you install module-init-tools, it renames the old files to insmod.old, modprobe.old .... etc. when a module operation is request the program first checks the kernel version and then fires the required program. Pleas4e check if you have the old modutils in place, by checking their versions. Later kernel have "make install" which do the needful of copying the required files to the respective locations. Regards, -- Goldwyn :o) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 10:34:17 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 06:34:17 -0400 Subject: cutting, pasting, & merging pdf files in linux? In-Reply-To: <20040516134544.47f7b279.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A21A46.2060003@sympatico.ca> <20040516134544.47f7b279.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <40A89529.7010407@sympatico.ca> Howard Gibson wrote: > > I strongly recommend pdflatex for converting LaTeX to PDF. As would I, but it uses a different graphics interface. If you've got lots of EPS-based graphics, it can be a bit of work to do the conversion. > Pdflatex get the fonts right. As does dvips+ghostscript, if you've got dvips set up correctly. > Also, it recognizes your sections, and > uses them to create a navigation structure within the PDF file. Again, so does dvips+ghostscript. It's all a matter of the right arguments to the hyperref package. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 11:53:03 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 07:53:03 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040517041658.GA3190-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200405162333.53775.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20040517041658.GA3190@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200405170753.03467.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Monday 17 May 2004 00:16, William Park wrote: > I'll say again... You're spending money to learn the same lesson over > and over again. ?Try something else. ?Get a decent power supply (I don't > mean wattage here). ?Then, try turning on the vacuum. I think I have a good power supply (Antec though exact model I forget) but I understand your point regarding UPSes. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 14:20:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:20:03 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> Message-ID: <20040517142003.GH9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 02:42:43AM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > I had dirty, bouncy, and spiky power out in Scarberia a few years ago. > It > left my motherboard crippled (dead IDE1 channel, so I'm stuck with my HD > and burner on the same channel!). > > I recently then purchased a UPS with the spoils of purchasing Rogers > cable > modem service via Future Shop (sure, I'll take $100 for service I'm > going > to get anyway). The only power outage that I recall having since > getting > the UPS lasted over an hour and a half, so the UPS wasn't much use apart > from properly shutting the equipment down after 20 minutes. The > disturbing > part is how often the UPS kicked in for under 1 second, at around 6am. > I > don't know what someone's doing with the power grid in my building at > that > hour almost every day, but I'm sure glad my machine's not feeling the > effects. I believe most UPSs do a self test at regular intervals (perhaps every 24 hours). Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 14:21:40 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:21:40 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040517142140.GI9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 12:21:53PM -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > IIRC, power lines in the U.K. are buried. I'm not a power systems engineer > but I expect that alone would make the grid more robust. Also, I don't think > there's much doubt that (in Ontario at least) we haven't been making the > necessary investment to properly maintain the power grid. I suspect with smaller area to work on, and higher population densities, and the fact the ground doesn't freeze solid anywhere near as far down, makes it much more doable. > Getting back on topic, last summer I bought myself an APC Back-UPS Office > 500. It's a "power bar" style UPS with 3 battery powered sockets and 3 surge > only. I got it at Above All on Bloor St. and was lucky enough to get the > older model with serial ports so no messing with USB (although I understand > the USB models are now supported by nut). While we have frequent short power > outages in the Summer, since then, excluding the big blackout, I've had zero > downtime due to power loss. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 14:24:26 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:24:26 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040517041658.GA3190-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> <200405162333.53775.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <20040517041658.GA3190@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040517142426.GJ9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 12:16:58AM -0400, William Park wrote: > I'll say again... You're spending money to learn the same lesson over > and over again. Try something else. Get a decent power supply (I don't > mean wattage here). Then, try turning on the vacuum. How about wiring the house properly. Your computer shouldn't be on the same circuit as the vacuum anyhow. Or the microwave, or laser printer, or whatever else high surge devices you may operate. At least it is preferable that it not be. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 14:36:24 2004 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 10:36:24 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <20040517142140.GI9500-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>; from lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Mon, May 17, 2004 at 10:21:40AM -0400 References: <40A54706.1060408@rogers.com> <11773B6D-A63B-11D8-B448-000393C435A6@hammerfell.dhs.org> <40A6255F.1000309@sympatico.ca> <20040517142140.GI9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040517103624.B2720@ee.ryerson.ca> According to an Electrical Engineer friend of mine who emigrated to Toronto from Hong Kong in the 50's, he found that the power lines in HK were buried but were still strung from poles in Toronto. He was quite surprized, thinking we would be more technologically advanced. Peter On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 10:21:40AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 12:21:53PM -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > > IIRC, power lines in the U.K. are buried. I'm not a power systems engineer > > but I expect that alone would make the grid more robust. Also, I don't think > > there's much doubt that (in Ontario at least) we haven't been making the > > necessary investment to properly maintain the power grid. > > I suspect with smaller area to work on, and higher population densities, > and the fact the ground doesn't freeze solid anywhere near as far down, > makes it much more doable. > > > Getting back on topic, last summer I bought myself an APC Back-UPS Office > > 500. It's a "power bar" style UPS with 3 battery powered sockets and 3 surge > > only. I got it at Above All on Bloor St. and was lucky enough to get the > > older model with serial ports so no messing with USB (although I understand > > the USB models are now supported by nut). While we have frequent short power > > outages in the Summer, since then, excluding the big blackout, I've had zero > > downtime due to power loss. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Peter D. Hiscocks Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering Ryerson University, 350 Victoria Street, Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada Phone: (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109 Fax: (416) 979-5280 Email: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org URL: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 18:36:43 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:36:43 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <40A5A34C.1070605-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A5A34C.1070605@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <40A9063B.2020903@onlink.net> Ron Scott wrote: > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [TLUG]: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? > Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:04:41 -0400 > From: Chris Aitken > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Organization: Shiny Pine Music > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > I have an HP DJ 692c. It's output was not great > so I gave it to my daughter. Then it got worse - it started printing > only the top half of the letters. I even saw that problem in the HP [...] > I'm wondering if the printer cartridge (which > I've been subjecting to an ink refill system in the last year) is so > gummed > up with ink now that a contact is covered thereby fooling the printer > that there is no cartridge. Does this sound like scraping away at > the printer cartridge with Q-tips and distilled water would lay the > conectors bare again? > > Chris > > For cleaning contacts I would suggest using isopropyl > alcohol, 91% or 99 %, NOT 76%. OK, I found the 118 proof alcohol. > Put several drops on one end of a Qtip, wipe the contacts, then switch > to the dry end of the Qtip and wipe up the alcohol These are the electrical (or data) contacts? > with the dissolved > contaminates. Caution - don't smoke while you do this:=| Ya, I guess. > > To clean the printing end of the head put warm water on part of a > piece of plotting paper. Is there anything I can use in lieu of plotting paper? > Wipe the head on the wet Will it be obvious what is "printing end" and what are "contacts"? > area, then wipe it on the dry area. Repeat several times. If you have > been refilling the cartridge, here may be salt crystals and other > contaminates around the holes where the ink normally comes out, thus > blocking the hole. The warm water should disolve most of them. Thanks. > > Have fun OK. : ) Chris > > Ron [...] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 18:50:23 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:50:23 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <40A9063B.2020903-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A5A34C.1070605@sympatico.ca> <40A9063B.2020903@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040517185023.GA4420@seahorse> On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 02:36:43PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Ron Scott wrote: > >For cleaning contacts I would suggest using isopropyl > >alcohol, 91% or 99 %, NOT 76%. > > OK, I found the 118 proof alcohol. Ach! Stop! 1 proof = 0.5% v/v, afaik. Therefore that's 59% isopropyl alcohol you've got there and then it's got too much water in it. If you're looking for 91% or 99% i.p.a. then you should want 182 or 198 proof, respectively. It's a little strange to be buying an alcohol-based product that's purposed for external use only described in "proof" instead of "percentage" so you might want to check labels very carefully before putting them on the delicate parts of a print cartridge... e.g. check to make sure there isn't anything like medication, scents, or colours added to your i.p.a. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 19:19:55 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:19:55 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <20040517185023.GA4420-5ttTcWKSjlQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A5A34C.1070605@sympatico.ca> <40A9063B.2020903@onlink.net> <20040517185023.GA4420@seahorse> Message-ID: <200405171519.55643.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> Go to a drugstore and buy a little bottle of 'rubbing alcohol', or isopropyl alcohol with 95% ethanol. Shopper's Drug Mart "Rubbing Alcohol Compound" has 95% ethanol. Duncan ========== On Monday 17 May 2004 02:50 pm, Andy Jack wrote: > On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 02:36:43PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > Ron Scott wrote: > > >For cleaning contacts I would suggest using isopropyl > > >alcohol, 91% or 99 %, NOT 76%. > > > > OK, I found the 118 proof alcohol. > > Ach! Stop! 1 proof = 0.5% v/v, afaik. Therefore that's 59% isopropyl > alcohol you've got there and then it's got too much water in it. If > you're looking for 91% or 99% i.p.a. then you should want 182 or 198 > proof, respectively. It's a little strange to be buying an > alcohol-based product that's purposed for external use only described in > "proof" instead of "percentage" so you might want to check labels very > carefully before putting them on the delicate parts of a print > cartridge... e.g. check to make sure there isn't anything like > medication, scents, or colours added to your i.p.a. > > Andy > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 19:33:11 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:33:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <200405171519.55643.dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405171519.55643.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > Go to a drugstore and buy a little bottle of 'rubbing alcohol', or isopropyl > alcohol with 95% ethanol. > Shopper's Drug Mart "Rubbing Alcohol Compound" has 95% ethanol. Careful here. Rubbing alcohol -- that is, alcohol meant for rubbing on skin -- often has things like scents added to it. The fact that they aren't present in large quantities doesn't mean they won't gum things up. You want the purest isopropyl alcohol you can get -- preferably, stuff sold specifically for low-contamination cleaning applications. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 19:59:35 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:59:35 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200405171559.35942.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> So where does one get pure ethanol, legally, in Ontario? Duncan On Monday 17 May 2004 03:33 pm, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Mon, 17 May 2004, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > > Go to a drugstore and buy a little bottle of 'rubbing alcohol', or > > isopropyl alcohol with 95% ethanol. > > Shopper's Drug Mart "Rubbing Alcohol Compound" has 95% ethanol. > > Careful here. Rubbing alcohol -- that is, alcohol meant for rubbing on > skin -- often has things like scents added to it. The fact that they > aren't present in large quantities doesn't mean they won't gum things up. > > You want the purest isopropyl alcohol you can get -- preferably, stuff > sold specifically for low-contamination cleaning applications. > > Henry Spencer > henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:08:53 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:08:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <200405171559.35942.dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg@public.gmane.org> References: <200405171559.35942.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 17 May 2004, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > > You want the purest isopropyl alcohol you can get -- preferably, stuff > > sold specifically for low-contamination cleaning applications. > > So where does one get pure ethanol, legally, in Ontario? Ethyl alcohol (aka ethanol) and isopropyl alcohol (aka isopropanol) are two different substances. The former is subject to all sorts of legal restrictions; the latter is poisonous and hence is not, which is why it's the alcohol of choice for cleaning applications. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org Mon May 17 20:20:59 2004 From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 16:20:59 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: References: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20040517162059.007038f4@mail.look.ca> At 09:59 2004-05-15 +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote: > >You do not say how many computers. Typically a 400VA UPS with 12V 7Ah >battery will keep a Pentium machine and a 15" monitor going for up to 20 >minutes. Most power failures will be under 5 minutes. There is a >classification for this, ask your electricity company. > >All UPSs with serial connection will talk to Linux ups daemons, in >so-called 'dumb' mode, using a simple serial cable: means you get power >failure/power back signalling, and low battery indication. Smart implies >you have real time display of voltage, battery status, amps, etc. I have >not yet used a UPS with USB with a Linux machine. > >As a simple rule of thumb, add the nameplate ratings of the monitor and >computer (e.g. 500W PSU + 100W monitor = 600W) and get a UPS with similar >nameplate rating (600VA). this is not entirely correct but it should be >close enough for your purposes (the VAs are Ws corrected for the power >factor, aka caos phi. VAs are also known as real power. Are you sure you have this the right way around? I thought VA was the unit for reactive power, >Some equipment >has really high cos phi). > >Peter >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 01:05:53 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 21:05:53 -0400 Subject: Questions about UPS+surge protector In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20040517162059.007038f4-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> <20040514165119.GA4660@m450> <3.0.3.32.20040517162059.007038f4@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <40A96171.8080500@rogers.com> Terrence Enger wrote: > At 09:59 2004-05-15 +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote: >>As a simple rule of thumb, add the nameplate ratings of the monitor and >>computer (e.g. 500W PSU + 100W monitor = 600W) and get a UPS with similar >>nameplate rating (600VA). this is not entirely correct but it should be >>close enough for your purposes (the VAs are Ws corrected for the power >>factor, aka caos phi. VAs are also known as real power. > > > Are you sure you have this the right way around? I thought VA was the > unit for reactive power, VA (volt amps) refers to the current and voltage in a circuit. Without knowing the phase angle, you can't determine power. In a purely resistive circuit, the phase angle theta is 0 and the VA = power. In a purely reactive circuit, theta is 90 degrees and the power = 0 W. To properly determine the actual power used, you need to know the voltage, current and phase angle, such that power is VA cos theta. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 02:16:23 2004 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:16:23 -0400 Subject: Migrating from Eudora on Windows to Linux Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040517214104.05456890@localhost> Hi, One of the applications that has kept me tied to Windows is Eudora. I am aware of KMail and Evolution, the two must likely suspects to replace Eudora but have a few challenges in the migration. 1. I have almost 6GB of mail spread out over about 800 mailboxes. Many of those mailboxes are nested, e.g. Linux>>TLUG>>TLUG - in. I would like to preserve the directory hierarchy and can handle that part easily enough by scripting the directory creation. I want to change how things are laid out anyway so this is not wasted effort. The bigger challenge is how to convert the .mbx files to some other MUA while still preserving the message attributes. I do not want to lose which messages I responded to, read, forwarded, redirected, etc. just because I changed my MUA. I presume one would have to read Eudora's .toc files to do that. Does anyone know how I can preserve the message attributes? 2. I receive a lot of HTML mail, especially from Microsoft's products, and in the tests that I have done, both KMail and Evolution did not display the messages properly. I just saw the raw HTML which is useless. And, no, lecturing people who send such mail to me about how they should not send HTML mail or should use standards compliant mail software is not an option. A large number of people use that other OS as a desktop OS so I have to find ways of dealing with it at my end, not force them to change. Any ideas? 3. I thought that migrating to IMAP might be useful because I dislike being tied to one computer for mail. IMAP works well enough for incoming mail but what about outgoing mail? I want my Outbox on the IMAP server too but I have not seen any obvious way of migrating my existing Eudora Outbox to IMAP without losing a lot valuable metadata. If I move messages from my Eudora Outbox to the IMAP server, the To: field is changed to my name, which is a bit problematic. How can I work around this? Is this why people run things like Notes and GroupWise? I have looked at things like Squirrelmail but find the idea of checking my mail from inside a browser to be unappealing. I have also looked at command line MUA's like Pine and Mutt and after being used to Eudora, both seemed like big steps backwards, especially Pine. I thought GNUMail might offer some useful options but when I tried to emerge gnumail on my shiny new Gentoo installation, it failed to compile. I have not investigated any further. I hate Eudora 6 so I am very motivated to migrate away from Eudora. The latest version of Eudora that I like is 5.2 so if I have to, I can run 5.2 under Wine. It works but somehow, running it under Wine seems like a half baked solution to me, though not as bad as running Windows 2000 in a virtual machine in VMWare just to run Eudora. Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, Ontario Canada M4N 3P6 Tel: 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 02:18:20 2004 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ron Scott) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:18:20 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re:hpdj692c...salvage or burial?]] Message-ID: <40A9726C.6080600@sympatico.ca> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [TLUG]: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 15:33:11 -0400 (EDT) From: Henry Spencer Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org On Mon, 17 May 2004, Duncan MacGregor wrote: > Go to a drugstore and buy a little bottle of 'rubbing alcohol', or isopropyl > alcohol with 95% ethanol. > Shopper's Drug Mart "Rubbing Alcohol Compound" has 95% ethanol. Careful here. Rubbing alcohol -- that is, alcohol meant for rubbing on skin -- often has things like scents added to it. The fact that they aren't present in large quantities doesn't mean they won't gum things up. You want the purest isopropyl alcohol you can get -- preferably, stuff sold specifically for low-contamination cleaning applications. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Shoppers Drug Mart sell Life brand ISOPROPANOL 99% (ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL USP) in a 500 ml container - slightly more than you need. I have a couple bottles around; if you live around Markham Rd & Sheppard contact me directly and I'll give you enough for this cleaning job. Ron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 02:51:16 2004 From: ronjscott-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Ron Scott) Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 22:51:16 -0400 Subject: [Fwd:hpdj692c...salvage or burial?] Message-ID: <40A97A24.6A4140CD@sympatico.ca> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [TLUG]: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? Date: Mon, 17 May 2004 14:36:43 -0400 From: Chris Aitken Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Organization: Shiny Pine Music To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org References: <40A5A34C.1070605-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> Ron Scott wrote: > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [TLUG]: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? > Date: Fri, 14 May 2004 23:04:41 -0400 > From: Chris Aitken > Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Organization: Shiny Pine Music > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > > I have an HP DJ 692c. It's output was not great > so I gave it to my daughter. Then it got worse - it started printing > only the top half of the letters. I even saw that problem in the HP [...] > I'm wondering if the printer cartridge (which > I've been subjecting to an ink refill system in the last year) is so > gummed > up with ink now that a contact is covered thereby fooling the printer > that there is no cartridge. Does this sound like scraping away at > the printer cartridge with Q-tips and distilled water would lay the > conectors bare again? > > Chris > > For cleaning contacts I would suggest using isopropyl > alcohol, 91% or 99 %, NOT 76%. OK, I found the 118 proof alcohol. > Put several drops on one end of a Qtip, wipe the contacts, then switch > to the dry end of the Qtip and wipe up the alcohol These are the electrical (or data) contacts? > with the dissolved > contaminates. Caution - don't smoke while you do this:=| Ya, I guess. > > To clean the printing end of the head put warm water on part of a > piece of plotting paper. Is there anything I can use in lieu of plotting paper? > Wipe the head on the wet Will it be obvious what is "printing end" and what are "contacts"? > area, then wipe it on the dry area. Repeat several times. If you have > been refilling the cartridge, here may be salt crystals and other > contaminates around the holes where the ink normally comes out, thus > blocking the hole. The warm water should disolve most of them. Thanks. > > Have fun OK. : ) Chris > > Ron [...] The contacts (data/electrical) are small copper coloured dots usually on the back of the ink cartridge as you face the front of the printer, but occasionally they are on the side on some models of printer. The printing area of the head is on the bottom. You probably could use some soft cotton cloth, in lieu of blotting paper, but be warned, when the ink starts to come out of the cartridge, the cloth will get messey. Note earlier post regarding alcohol. Sorry I didn't use the Fedora Core computer for this post, but this email didn't want to go to it. Ron -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 11:14:17 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 07:14:17 -0400 Subject: Anyone know of a live Fedora Core 2 torrent? Message-ID: <40A9F009.3020808@alteeve.com> Hi all, My procrastination has burned me it would seem. I went back to grab Fedora Core 2 from the Torrent (http://66.90.75.92/suprnova/torrents/1752/FC2-i386-isos.torrent) Slashdot listed but it keeps timing out. I guess it has either been shut down or I might be doing something wrong but ports TCP 6881-6999 are open so I am guessing it really is down. Does anyone know of a live torrent for FC2? Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 12:29:21 2004 From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:29:21 -0400 Subject: Anyone know of a live Fedora Core 2 torrent? In-Reply-To: <40A9F009.3020808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A9F009.3020808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1084883361.4254.0.camel@linux.local> http://kuix.de/fedora/fedora-core-2-isos.torrent http://kuix.de/fedora/fedora-core-2-DVD.torrent On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 07:14, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > My procrastination has burned me it would seem. I went back to grab > Fedora Core 2 from the Torrent > (http://66.90.75.92/suprnova/torrents/1752/FC2-i386-isos.torrent) > Slashdot listed but it keeps timing out. I guess it has either been shut > down or I might be doing something wrong but ports TCP 6881-6999 are > open so I am guessing it really is down. Does anyone know of a live > torrent for FC2? > > Thanks! > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows, And decide to replace them with something stronger" (o_ // Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation V_/_ Jason Shein Linux Registered User #281100 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 12:30:56 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 08:30:56 -0400 Subject: Anyone know of a live Fedora Core 2 torrent? In-Reply-To: <1084883361.4254.0.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A9F009.3020808@alteeve.com> <1084883361.4254.0.camel@linux.local> Message-ID: <40AA0200.3000404@alteeve.com> Thank you!! I've got the isos on their way! Madison Jason Shein wrote: > http://kuix.de/fedora/fedora-core-2-isos.torrent > http://kuix.de/fedora/fedora-core-2-DVD.torrent > > On Tue, 2004-05-18 at 07:14, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>Hi all, >> >> My procrastination has burned me it would seem. I went back to grab >>Fedora Core 2 from the Torrent >>(http://66.90.75.92/suprnova/torrents/1752/FC2-i386-isos.torrent) >>Slashdot listed but it keeps timing out. I guess it has either been shut >>down or I might be doing something wrong but ports TCP 6881-6999 are >>open so I am guessing it really is down. Does anyone know of a live >>torrent for FC2? >> >> Thanks! >> >>Madison >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 13:06:01 2004 From: cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 09:06:01 -0400 Subject: Migrating from Eudora on Windows to Linux In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040517214104.05456890-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040517214104.05456890@localhost> Message-ID: <40AA0A39.7090700@digitalfairway.com> Hi: CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > Hi, > > One of the applications that has kept me tied to Windows is Eudora. I am > aware of KMail and Evolution, the two must likely suspects to replace > Eudora but have a few challenges in the migration. There is also Mozilla's thunderbird. Its not all that bad. Not as feature rich as Evo. But probably close to KMail in feature functionality (This is what I've noticed in my minimal exposure to KMail). > > 1. I have almost 6GB of mail spread out over about 800 mailboxes. Many > of those mailboxes are nested, e.g. Linux>>TLUG>>TLUG - in. I would like > to preserve the directory hierarchy and can handle that part easily > enough by scripting the directory creation. I want to change how things > are laid out anyway so this is not wasted effort. The bigger challenge > is how to convert the .mbx files to some other MUA while still > preserving the message attributes. I believe that both Evo. and KMail support importing Eudora's MBX file format. In KMail (1.5.1) Look under Tools > Import. My Evo environment is currently unavailable so I can't tell you where the import option is in there. I think you can also get both clients to read the MBX format directly. > > 2. I receive a lot of HTML mail, especially from Microsoft's products, > and in the tests that I have done, both KMail and Evolution did not > display the messages properly. I just saw the raw HTML which is useless. Hmm...I've never seen Raw HTML in either KMail nor Evo. Looking through the options in KMail, the closest I've come to for enabling HTML is under the Profiles tab in Settings > COnfigure KMail > Appearance. Then again, my default settings enabled me to view HTML anyway. Evolution 1.4 should have something similar (I can't remember where). > > 3. I thought that migrating to IMAP might be useful because I dislike > being tied to one computer for mail. IMAP works well enough for incoming > mail but what about outgoing mail? I want my Outbox on the IMAP server > too but I have not seen any obvious way of migrating my existing Eudora > Outbox to IMAP without losing a lot valuable metadata. In KMail: Settings > Configure KMail > Identities (select the identity you want to modify) > Advanced > Sent-Mail folder. Similar for Evolution. I've got all of my mailers set up this way: Evolution, KMail, Thunderbird, Eudora. And haven't had a problem yet. I've also got my drafts folder setup this way too. To keep your existing outbox meta-data, you might want be able to get away with using that as an 'archive' of old-sent-mail and configuring a new sent-mail folder. > > I hate Eudora 6 so I am very motivated to migrate away from Eudora. The > latest version of Eudora that I like is 5.2 so if I have to, Heh. Yeah I can relate. After using Thunderbird and Evolution, I can't stand using Eudora anymore either. I miss the small things that both clients (TB and Evo) offer: - The quick search bar - The auto-address completion feature that actually *gasp* checks directory servers for you - VFolders in Evolution Just an FYI, I really, really like Evolution. However, using it to access an IMAP server is slow. I'm not 100% sure why this is, especially as TB's IMAP access time is fast. From some of the mails on the Evolution user list it might be because Evolution always checks all of the IMAP directories and TB only checks the INBOX. hth -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 15:21:16 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:21:16 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <20040517185023.GA4420-5ttTcWKSjlQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A5A34C.1070605@sympatico.ca> <40A9063B.2020903@onlink.net> <20040517185023.GA4420@seahorse> Message-ID: <40AA29EC.7060509@onlink.net> Andy Jack wrote: >On Mon, May 17, 2004 at 02:36:43PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>Ron Scott wrote: >> >> >>>For cleaning contacts I would suggest using isopropyl >>>alcohol, 91% or 99 %, NOT 76%. >>> >>> >>OK, I found the 118 proof alcohol. >> >> > >Ach! Stop! 1 proof = 0.5% v/v, afaik. Therefore that's 59% isopropyl >alcohol you've got there and then it's got too much water in it. If >you're looking for 91% or 99% i.p.a. then you should want 182 or 198 >proof, respectively. It's a little strange to be buying an >alcohol-based product that's purposed for external use only described in >"proof" instead of "percentage" so you might want to check labels very >carefully before putting them on the delicate parts of a print >cartridge... e.g. check to make sure there isn't anything like >medication, scents, or colours added to your i.p.a. > > Sorry, I was having a little fun calling it 'proof' instead of percentage alcohol. Add to that some slopppy math and I wasted your time. It's 99%. That's 198 proof if you're drinking it. : ) Chris >Andy >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 15:25:12 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:25:12 -0400 Subject: hpdj692c...salvage or burial? In-Reply-To: <40A9726C.6080600-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40A9726C.6080600@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <40AA2AD8.9040608@onlink.net> Ron Scott wrote: > [...] > > > Shoppers Drug Mart sell Life brand ISOPROPANOL 99% > (ISOPROPYL ALCOHOL USP) in a 500 ml container - slightly more than you > need. I have a couple bottles > around; if you live around Markham Rd & Sheppard contact > me directly and I'll give you enough for this cleaning > job. > > Ron Thanks for the offer. I live in Timmins. I found the 99% isoprpopyl alcohol at a Guardian drugstore. Chris [...] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 15:42:20 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 11:42:20 -0400 Subject: saving mozilla emails in OO Message-ID: <40AA2EDC.4040801@onlink.net> Does anyone know how to save a Mozilla email in OO? Everything saves except the header (if that's what the Subject:, From:, Date:, To: fields are collectively called). Mozilla Mail won't let me highlight the header when I'm highlightling the email content (won't highlight with Edit > Select All either). When I do a 'print to file' it saves as mozilla.ps. The mozilla.ps opens nicely in Mozilla but I can't cut & paste that into an OO document - seems to be read-only like Acrobat Reader. I want to save emails (incl. header) in OO. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:15:22 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:15:22 -0400 Subject: saving mozilla emails in OO In-Reply-To: <40AA2EDC.4040801-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <40AA2EDC.4040801@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040518161522.GA25894@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Tue, May 18, 2004 at 11:42:20AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Does anyone know how to save a Mozilla email in OO? Everything saves > except the header (if that's what the Subject:, From:, Date:, To: fields > are collectively called). Mozilla Mail won't let me highlight the header > when I'm highlightling the email content (won't highlight with Edit > > Select All either). > > When I do a 'print to file' it saves as mozilla.ps. The mozilla.ps opens > nicely in Mozilla but I can't cut & paste that into an OO document - > seems to be read-only like Acrobat Reader. I want to save emails (incl. > header) in OO. I know Netscape Mail (pre opening the source :-) had "save as" capability that allowed you to select the file format, including plain text. I doubt that Mozilla has lost that ability. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:14:08 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:14:08 -0400 Subject: Anyone play with rsync much? Message-ID: <40AA3650.3050506@alteeve.com> Hi all, I want to use 'rsync' to backup a partition and I plan(ned) to use the '--exclude-from="/path/to/foo"' and '--exclude-from="/path/to/bar"' options to build the list of files to exclude (foo) and (I hope) the exceptions to the excludes (bar). For example, Say I want to -not- backup '/home' except for the one directory '/home/madison' I was thinking I could add '/home' to 'foo' and then add '/home/madison' to 'bar'. This doesn't work though, the '--exclude-from' seems to always take precedence regardless of where I call it. Does anyone have a tip or suggestion on how I could go about this? Thanks!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 16:51:26 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:51:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Anyone play with rsync much? In-Reply-To: <40AA3650.3050506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40AA3650.3050506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 18 May 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > I want to use 'rsync' to backup a partition and I plan(ned) to use > the '--exclude-from="/path/to/foo"' and '--exclude-from="/path/to/bar"' > options to build the list of files to exclude (foo) and (I hope) the > exceptions to the excludes (bar). > > For example, Say I want to -not- backup '/home' except for the one > directory '/home/madison' I was thinking I could add '/home' to 'foo' > and then add '/home/madison' to 'bar'. This doesn't work though, the > '--exclude-from' seems to always take precedence regardless of where I > call it. Does anyone have a tip or suggestion on how I could go about > this? Thanks!! foo file should read: /home/* bar file shold read: /home/madison The * above is important. The rsync line then would be: rsync --include-from=bar --exclude-from=foo Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 17:12:37 2004 From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 13:12:37 -0400 Subject: Anyone play with rsync much? In-Reply-To: <40AA3650.3050506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40AA3650.3050506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200405181312.37563.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> The rsync include-from and exclude-from are arcane and buggy. Better to get the newer versions that have a sane files-from parameter. You should be using the newer versions anyway as they have security fixes. I have not yet used the new parameter, but I have fought with the old ones extensively and don't recommend it. If you do use the older setup, put all of the stuff in one file (you don't need separate files for the include and exclude specifications) and you may have some hope of making sense of it. Charly Baker On Tuesday May 18 2004 12:14 pm, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I want to use 'rsync' to backup a partition and I plan(ned) to use > the '--exclude-from="/path/to/foo"' and '--exclude-from="/path/to/bar"' > options to build the list of files to exclude (foo) and (I hope) the > exceptions to the excludes (bar). > > For example, Say I want to -not- backup '/home' except for the one > directory '/home/madison' I was thinking I could add '/home' to 'foo' > and then add '/home/madison' to 'bar'. This doesn't work though, the > '--exclude-from' seems to always take precedence regardless of where I > call it. Does anyone have a tip or suggestion on how I could go about > this? Thanks!! > > Madison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 20:38:25 2004 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 16:38:25 -0400 Subject: Migrating from Eudora on Windows to Linux In-Reply-To: <40AA0A39.7090700-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040517214104.05456890@localhost> <5.2.0.9.0.20040517214104.05456890@localhost> <40AA0A39.7090700@digitalfairway.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518162216.02221a70@localhost> Hi Chris, At 09:06 18/05/2004 -0400, Chris Gow wrote: >Hi: > >CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote: > >>Hi, >>One of the applications that has kept me tied to Windows is Eudora. I am >>aware of KMail and Evolution, the two must likely suspects to replace >>Eudora but have a few challenges in the migration. > >There is also Mozilla's thunderbird. Its not all that bad. Not as feature >rich as Evo. But probably close to KMail in feature functionality (This is >what I've noticed in my minimal exposure to KMail). KMail is integrated with Kontact in KDE 3.2 so its functionality is better than it used to be. >>1. I have almost 6GB of mail spread out over about 800 mailboxes. Many of >>those mailboxes are nested, e.g. Linux>>TLUG>>TLUG - in. I would like to >>preserve the directory hierarchy and can handle that part easily enough >>by scripting the directory creation. I want to change how things are laid >>out anyway so this is not wasted effort. The bigger challenge is how to >>convert the .mbx files to some other MUA while still preserving the >>message attributes. > >I believe that both Evo. and KMail support importing Eudora's MBX file >format. In KMail (1.5.1) Look under Tools > Import. My Evo environment is >currently unavailable so I can't tell you where the import option is in >there. I think you can also get both clients to read the MBX format directly. Yes, one at a time. It would take a while to do 800 mailboxes using the silly wizard interface. Besides, it does not preserve the message status. >>2. I receive a lot of HTML mail, especially from Microsoft's products, >>and in the tests that I have done, both KMail and Evolution did not >>display the messages properly. I just saw the raw HTML which is useless. >Hmm...I've never seen Raw HTML in either KMail nor Evo. Looking through >the options in KMail, the closest I've come to for enabling HTML is under >the Profiles tab in Settings > COnfigure KMail > Appearance. Then again, >my default settings enabled me to view HTML anyway. Evolution 1.4 should >have something similar (I can't remember where). Mine is set to not display HTML automatically so all HTML mail shows source. There is a notice that reads: "Note: This is an HTML message. For security reasons, only the raw HTML code is shown. If you trust the sender of this message then you can activate formatted HTML display for this message by clicking here." with the word "here" being a hyperlink at the top of each HTML message. I click on it only if I trust the sender. However, as often as not, even after clicking on the hyperlink, all I will see is HTML garbage and invariably, it will be a message from someone using a Microsoft product. >>3. I thought that migrating to IMAP might be useful because I dislike >>being tied to one computer for mail. IMAP works well enough for incoming >>mail but what about outgoing mail? I want my Outbox on the IMAP server >>too but I have not seen any obvious way of migrating my existing Eudora >>Outbox to IMAP without losing a lot valuable metadata. > >In KMail: Settings > Configure KMail > Identities (select the identity you >want to modify) > Advanced > Sent-Mail folder. Right, except it does not help with existing messages that are in my Outbox. Any attempt to move them somewhere else has resulted in the message headers being modified. >Similar for Evolution. I've got all of my mailers set up this way: >Evolution, KMail, Thunderbird, Eudora. And haven't had a problem yet. I've >also got my drafts folder setup this way too. > >To keep your existing outbox meta-data, you might want be able to get away >with using that as an 'archive' of old-sent-mail and configuring a new >sent-mail folder. I tried that - my headers were munged and metadata was lost. >>I hate Eudora 6 so I am very motivated to migrate away from Eudora. The >>latest version of Eudora that I like is 5.2 so if I have to, >Heh. Yeah I can relate. After using Thunderbird and Evolution, I can't >stand using Eudora anymore either. I miss the small things that both >clients (TB and Evo) offer: > >- The quick search bar >- The auto-address completion feature that actually *gasp* checks >directory servers for you >- VFolders in Evolution VFolders seemed like a great idea but I found the implementation to be lacking. The whole point of VFolders I believe is to relieve one of the need to create different physical mailboxes and instead just rely on VFolders to display mail in different ways. I think this can be very useful because it would give me different "views" of my mail. However, in order for this to be effective, all the mail really should be in one mailbox with virtual folders for the various classifications. That idea falls apart very quickly if one tries to look at a mailbox with even 10,000 messages in it, which is not a very large mailbox at all. >Just an FYI, I really, really like Evolution. However, using it to access >an IMAP server is slow. I'm not 100% sure why this is, especially as TB's >IMAP access time is fast. From some of the mails on the Evolution user >list it might be because Evolution always checks all of the IMAP >directories and TB only checks the INBOX. IMAP can get slow if you have large mailboxes. IMAP implementations vary widely as well, both on the client and on the server side so a given client might work well with one server but not another. One of the things I like about Eudora is that even with large mailboxes, the performance is quite adequate. Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, Ontario Canada M4N 3P6 Tel: 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 22:44:27 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 15:44:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: First Issue with Fedora CORE 2 - Windows Partition Message-ID: <20040518224427.7297.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> I get the following error when I mount /mnt/data/ mount: wrong fs type, bad option, bad superblock on /dev/hda5, or too many mounted file systems In /etc/fstab I have the following line that always used in prior versions of RedHat & Fedora CORE 1 /dev/hda5 /mnt/data vfat auto,user,rw,gid=vfatusers,umask=002 0 0 My user mount tool shows "/dev/hda5 vfat" but I don't know if that comes from my entry in /etc/fstab or from the hardware. Maybe CORE 2 does things differently? Any ideas as to what the problem might be? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue May 18 23:18:17 2004 From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 19:18:17 -0400 Subject: Can I delete all files/directories under /tmp In-Reply-To: References: <20040514192819.GF9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040514040136.9730.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> <20040514045750.GA24110@dmz> <20040514192819.GF9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040518191109.09ca1e20@localhost> At 15:40 14/05/2004 -0400, G. Matthew Rice wrote: >lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes:> > > Yeah Debian does very little by default. It will do just about anything > > you ask it to though as soon as you ask. > >It's still the best distro for everyone. no exceptions. especially for >those Gentoo freaks :) I am new to Gentoo and so far, I am *very* impressed. It has been very well thought out. I had avoided it for a long time because I did not relish the thought of compiling everything from source. After reading the install docs, I found out that one can compile as much or as little as one desires. There is something called GRP (Gentoo Reference Platform) which is essentially binaries of all the things that one can compile from source. Gentoo's package management system, Portage, works fine with either source or binary. As it turned out, I compiled everything from source anyway since I really did not need the system that I was installing on to be available very quickly. It was very painless, I learned many new tricks, and OpenOffice is as fast on the first launch on that system as MS Office is. Nice! So, you can now count me as a "Gentoo freak":) Regards, Clifford Ilkay Dinamis Corporation 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419 Toronto, Ontario Canada M4N 3P6 Tel: 416-410-3326 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 01:26:04 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:26:04 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040519012605.D29D04038@cbbrowne.com> > > > I have been asked to write a program which I think, when done, will > >have an honest benefit to the community. Now, I was able to write it > >because my boss paid my hourly wage to write it so the program belongs > >to the company. The question is how to release it. > > > > Open source history includes both companies doing well and companies > being burned by open source releases. > > How much support does it need? If not much, you are likely to get burned. > > Can it be dual licensed? See MySQL for a successful version of this option. That's arguable, dually: 1. The people at Nusphere wouldn't agree with you; they got messed up pretty bad by MySQL AB; 2. MySQL isn't an "open source community" project; it is a commercial package, implemented by a private group of developers, under a traditional "proprietary" license much like those used for other "non-open-source" software, that you can occasionally get for free. 3. Oh yes, and we don't know the long term answers here. MySQL AB recently got a ~$20M chunk of vulture capital, and eliminated LGPL portions of their software shortly thereafter. The company is quite clearly playing to maximize licensing fees, while backpedalling whenever it starts turning into bad publicity. It is not obvious that the company will last for any extended period of time now that they have jumped into the big league, and are a tiny fish amongst the commercial DB vendors. -- If this was helpful, rate me http://cbbrowne.com/info/lsf.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #202. "All crones with the ability to prophesy will be given free facelifts, permanents, manicures, and Donna Karan wardrobes. That should pretty well destroy their credibility." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 01:58:10 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:58:10 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40A3E2FF.7010409-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> <40A3E2FF.7010409@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <20040519015811.1509E4038@cbbrowne.com> > So like others said, it depends on the nature of the program. The success of an open source project is _vitally_ dependent on there being a community being prepared to continue development of the software. Adabas-D is an example of a cautionary tale. -> SAP AG bought the source license from Software AG to provide them an alternative to Oracle, which is a useful bargaining chip. -> The renamed SAP-DB turned out to be something of a "tarbaby;" it's a pretty frightening code base that combines: - It was written in a combination of C and C++ by Germans, hence naming conventions are Germanic. - It came from the mainframe world, so it's just rife with modularity based on 8 character names that were once somewhat mnemonic, in German. - It uses mainframey customized build tools in lieu of, oh, say, Makefiles. It proved easier to port the build tools to Linux than to move over to Makefiles. SAP was successful; Oracle backed down. But they were now left maintaining this "tarbaby." They tried "open sourcing" it, but there was only minscule interest shown in managing the code base. They gave up on it, passing the "tarbaby" on to MySQL AB. It is not totally evident just what the strategy can be there; the code is SO unusable for integration purposes that I can't see this as being anything other than a strategy to allow there to be some minimal amount of maintenance to keep it running on the dwindling numbers of Unixes, where it'll eventually die when no one that is using it now cares anymore. Numerous "open source" projects have failed when no one cared to work on them anymore. Tcl is also in this category; while it hasn't yet formally died, the community is not nearly large enough to support ongoing development of vital libraries as are found with Perl and Python. -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','ntlug.org'). http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/ "It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe political view or strange religion there exists a proponent on the Net. The proof is left as an exercise for your kill-file." -- Bertil Jonell -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 03:09:44 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (T. Alex Beamish) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:09:44 -0400 Subject: OT: Web log stats for rogers.com hosted sites? Message-ID: <20040519030759.XUNZ11251.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@p433> Hi folks, A somewhat off-topic question: a friend of mine wants to get stats on his web site traffic. The hitch is that the site is hosted on rogers.com, a cable internet provider. Apart from doing something with server side includes and a lightweight logging CGI for each page, is there another approach that's possible without changing ISP? Thanks! Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 03:14:25 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:14:25 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <20040519015811.1509E4038-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> <40A3E2FF.7010409@truxtar.com> <20040519015811.1509E4038@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <40AAD111.2080703@alteeve.com> Thanks everyone for commenting, here is an update (a final decision is still pending). My boss understands my position and argument which matches with those I heard here. I have also been reading through the GPL FAQ that Lloyd put me onto which is also proving useful. What I need to hammer down is if the idea I think we are going to go with is feasible/legal. I want to release a basic version under something (I don't think the GPL will do) that is more for a single server and then have a fuller version for sale (for a period until we make our money back when we will GPL the whole shebang) as Wil suggested (and Lance at my work). I just need to figure out what license and still get the okay from my boss. Anyway, so far so good and thanks! Madison cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: >>So like others said, it depends on the nature of the program. > > > The success of an open source project is _vitally_ dependent on there > being a community being prepared to continue development of the > software. > > Adabas-D is an example of a cautionary tale. > > -> SAP AG bought the source license from Software AG to provide them an > alternative to Oracle, which is a useful bargaining chip. > > -> The renamed SAP-DB turned out to be something of a "tarbaby;" it's a > pretty frightening code base that combines: > > - It was written in a combination of C and C++ by Germans, hence > naming conventions are Germanic. > > - It came from the mainframe world, so it's just rife with modularity > based on 8 character names that were once somewhat mnemonic, in > German. > > - It uses mainframey customized build tools in lieu of, oh, say, > Makefiles. It proved easier to port the build tools to Linux > than to move over to Makefiles. > > SAP was successful; Oracle backed down. But they were now left > maintaining this "tarbaby." > > They tried "open sourcing" it, but there was only minscule interest > shown in managing the code base. > > They gave up on it, passing the "tarbaby" on to MySQL AB. It is not > totally evident just what the strategy can be there; the code is SO > unusable for integration purposes that I can't see this as being > anything other than a strategy to allow there to be some minimal amount > of maintenance to keep it running on the dwindling numbers of Unixes, > where it'll eventually die when no one that is using it now cares > anymore. > > Numerous "open source" projects have failed when no one cared to work on > them anymore. > > Tcl is also in this category; while it hasn't yet formally died, the > community is not nearly large enough to support ongoing development of > vital libraries as are found with Perl and Python. > -- > wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','ntlug.org'). > http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/ > "It can be shown that for any nutty theory, beyond-the-fringe > political view or strange religion there exists a proponent on the > Net. The proof is left as an exercise for your kill-file." > -- Bertil Jonell > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 03:29:31 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:29:31 -0400 Subject: OT: Web log stats for rogers.com hosted sites? In-Reply-To: <20040519030759.XUNZ11251.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net-8I/hjhOT7jo@public.gmane.org> References: <20040519030759.XUNZ11251.tomts36-srv.bellnexxia.net@p433> Message-ID: <40AAD49B.2050003@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, - From what I know, most traffic trackers work by forcing the browser to request an image or other content from a server which then logs the requests using a CGI script or equivalent. The server could be hosted by a different provider. I believe there are some "free" services like this out there, or one can set up a simple server for this purpose on his/her own computer (even by using, say, DynDNS.org). Another solution would be to use JavaScript to detect the same (or more) information and then transmit it to another server in the form of a get request for logging (trackerimage.gif?data=value&moredata=value2). T. Alex Beamish wrote: > A somewhat off-topic question: a friend of mine wants to get stats on > his web site traffic. The hitch is that the site is hosted on > rogers.com, a cable internet provider. > > Apart from doing something with server side includes and a lightweight > logging CGI for each page Not sure what you mean by that, so if I repeated what you had in mind, please ignore. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFAqtSZRreNkzrRRLQRAjMhAJ9YgGawyJQ1FRlMYdsy3f4N2WlhDgCbB8Ia Dpue3OzCAaYnPrbbXs9v05g= =a7NU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 03:49:30 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 23:49:30 -0400 Subject: OT: Web log stats for rogers.com hosted sites? Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51012E04@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Silly Question. Is this a personal or business account? I believe a business account has access to the log files. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of T. Alex Beamish Sent: Tuesday, May 18, 2004 11:10 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: OT: Web log stats for rogers.com hosted sites? Hi folks, A somewhat off-topic question: a friend of mine wants to get stats on his web site traffic. The hitch is that the site is hosted on rogers.com, a cable internet provider. Apart from doing something with server side includes and a lightweight logging CGI for each page, is there another approach that's possible without changing ISP? Thanks! Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 04:37:55 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 21:37:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 Message-ID: <20040519043755.86572.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> I get sound in Tux Racer but nothing for CD Players in either KDE or Gnome. I installed CORE 2 on a P3 and P4 and same problem in both machines. Any ideas as to what may be the problem? ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 05:12:05 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 01:12:05 -0400 Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 In-Reply-To: <20040519043755.86572.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040519043755.86572.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <40AAECA5.7050308@passport.ca> I believe ALSA is native in CORE 2 . Did you try running alsamixer and check the CD level? Jim >I get sound in Tux Racer but nothing for CD Players in either KDE or Gnome. > >I installed CORE 2 on a P3 and P4 and same problem in both machines. > >Any ideas as to what may be the problem? > > >===== >The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him >absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 09:12:08 2004 From: pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 05:12:08 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40A3A704.4050703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.0.20040519044451.00bb63a8@POP2.sympatico.ca> The following may be helpful: http://management.itmanagersjournal.com/management/04/05/10/2052216.shtml?tid=85 http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=13&ItemID=4894 http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1553990,00.asp http://linuxdevices.com/articles/AT9958094250.html From what I can make of it, the financial trade-off starts with answering one question: Is being the "best expert" for this software going to get you enough new work to justify the cost of development plus a fair margin? If yes, then you're being paid to be a good citizen and do right by your customers (a very marketable business practice, btw) and open source becomes financially justifiable. If no, then you should consider staying closed source, imho. paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 11:55:44 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:55:44 -0400 Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 In-Reply-To: <20040519043755.86572.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040519043755.86572.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405190755.44928.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 19 May 2004 00:37, Mel Seder wrote: > I get sound in Tux Racer but nothing for CD Players in either KDE or Gnome. > > I installed CORE 2 on a P3 and P4 and same problem in both machines. > > Any ideas as to what may be the problem? Are you sure that you have the audio cable from your cdrom plugged into the sound card? CD audio does not work in the same way as regular PC sound (games/whatever). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 13:21:26 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:21:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Needed to Rent: High end Xeon system Message-ID: Hi all. I have a request from a client to rent a high end system for Thursday. Specifically the requirements are: - Dual Xeon (at least 2.4 GHz) - At least 1 GB RAM - nVidia Quadro4 980 XGL graphics If anyone can possibly assist with the supply of this (admittedly very specific) system please email me asap and note a daily rental rate. Probably a bit of a long shot but it is worth asking. Cheers, Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 14:36:54 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:36:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 In-Reply-To: <200405190755.44928.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200405190755.44928.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040519143654.86793.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> --- Fraser Campbell wrote: > On Wednesday 19 May 2004 00:37, Mel Seder wrote: > > I get sound in Tux Racer but nothing for CD Players in either KDE or Gnome. > > > > I installed CORE 2 on a P3 and P4 and same problem in both machines. > > > > Any ideas as to what may be the problem? > > Are you sure that you have the audio cable from your cdrom plugged into the > sound card? CD audio does not work in the same way as regular PC sound > (games/whatever). I don't think that's the problem because I have used the CD players before I installed CORE 2. Are you running CORE 2 by any chance? > > -- > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 14:38:28 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 07:38:28 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 In-Reply-To: <40AAECA5.7050308-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <40AAECA5.7050308@passport.ca> Message-ID: <20040519143828.8528.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> --- jim ruxton wrote: > I believe ALSA is native in CORE 2 . Did you try running alsamixer and > check the CD level? > Jim Master shows 65<>65 is that what you are referring to? > > >I get sound in Tux Racer but nothing for CD Players in either KDE or Gnome. > > > >I installed CORE 2 on a P3 and P4 and same problem in both machines. > > > >Any ideas as to what may be the problem? > > > > > >===== > >The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > >absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 14:56:32 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 10:56:32 -0400 Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 In-Reply-To: <20040519143828.8528.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <40AAECA5.7050308@passport.ca> <20040519143828.8528.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040519105501.02cce3c0@mail.interlog.com> At 10:38 AM 05/19/2004, Mel Seder wrote: >--- jim ruxton wrote: > > I believe ALSA is native in CORE 2 . Did you try running alsamixer and > > check the CD level? > > Jim > >Master shows 65<>65 is that what you are referring to? Its not just the master control you need to look at. Mixer control panels usually have individual controls for different sound sources. Look for one that is label CD or CD Audio. If not shown on the main screen, look for an advanced control panel (ie. one with extra options/controls). Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 15:13:40 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 11:13:40 -0400 Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 In-Reply-To: <20040519143654.86793.qmail-dz3chGMHpKKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040519143654.86793.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200405191113.40063.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Wednesday 19 May 2004 10:36, Mel Seder wrote: > > Are you sure that you have the audio cable from your cdrom plugged into > > the sound card? ?CD audio does not work in the same way as regular PC > > sound (games/whatever). > > I don't think that's the problem because I have used the CD players before > I installed CORE 2. ?Are you running CORE 2 by any chance? Ah, then I'm out of ideas. There's no chance that I will run Fedora, is that what you were asking ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 16:10:49 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 09:10:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: CD Player problem in Fedora CORE 2 In-Reply-To: <40AAECA5.7050308-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org> References: <40AAECA5.7050308@passport.ca> Message-ID: <20040519161049.96650.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks to you and those who have offered to help :-) I opened the volume controls and there was a big mixed board and found the CD sliders which were turned off. All is fine now thanks. --- jim ruxton wrote: > I believe ALSA is native in CORE 2 . Did you try running alsamixer and > check the CD level? > Jim > > >I get sound in Tux Racer but nothing for CD Players in either KDE or Gnome. > > > >I installed CORE 2 on a P3 and P4 and same problem in both machines. > > > >Any ideas as to what may be the problem? > > > > > >===== > >The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him > >absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) > >-- > >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ===== The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Wed May 19 21:54:39 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Wed, 19 May 2004 17:54:39 -0400 Subject: GNUe & MySQL AB ? -was-My fiscal ... In-Reply-To: <20040519015811.1509E4038-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> <40A3E2FF.7010409@truxtar.com> <20040519015811.1509E4038@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20942C83-A9DF-11D8-A26E-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 18-May-04, at 21:58, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: >> So like others said, it depends on the nature of the program. > > The success of an open source project is _vitally_ dependent on there > being a community being prepared to continue development of the > software. > They gave up on it, passing the "tarbaby" on to MySQL AB. It is not > totally evident just what the strategy can be there; the code is SO > unusable for integration purposes that I can't see this as being > anything other than a strategy to allow there to be some minimal amount > of maintenance to keep it running on the dwindling numbers of Unixes, > where it'll eventually die when no one that is using it now cares > anymore. This is interesting to me as GNUe was (mid-2003) using MySQL AB as their back end (LOL) . Any one know what GNUe's preferred DBMS now is ? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 11:46:20 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 07:46:20 -0400 Subject: GNUe & MySQL AB ? -was-My fiscal ... In-Reply-To: <20942C83-A9DF-11D8-A26E-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> <40A3E2FF.7010409@truxtar.com> <20040519015811.1509E4038@cbbrowne.com> <20942C83-A9DF-11D8-A26E-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <20040520114621.7782A40B1@cbbrowne.com> > This is interesting to me as GNUe was (mid-2003) using MySQL AB > as their back end (LOL) . Any one know what GNUe's preferred DBMS > now is ? Hmm? The last I had heard, the preferred DBMS was PostgreSQL. GNUe Traffic #68 For 15 Feb 2003 "Keith asked what to database to choose - mysql or postgresql. The general consensus was for postgresql - Dan Bethe (ddttmm) said the main GNUe "prefer it and hence it has less potential issues, and because mysql is known for data corruption under high volume concurrent writes - either mysql itself, or the way people tend to use it" . Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) felt that "mysql is essentially a glorified SQL wrapper around a filesystem" ." GNUe Traffic #84 For 7 Jun 2003 [subtitle: RDBMS warz - "The only people I know who object to mysql are in this channel. =)" - "must be the only smart guys you talk to are in this channel ;/)"] "Some days later, Derek Neighbors (derek) said that some of the GNUe developers had "snarfed the NOLA tree sometime ago - and redid their structure - and fixed a lot of the bugs - and put in private cvs" under the name acclite with the intention of porting "it to the GNU Enterprise Framework" . More recently, he had looked at arias and considered using it as the basis for GNUe Small Business (gnue-sb), but had not gone any further with this - gnue-sb "was going really well until real life hit me :(" Chan asked if the changes from NOLA to acclite had included any fixes to Inventory - he was looking at this area next, and would prefer not to have to re-fix anything that the GNUe developers had already fixed. Derek said they had not really looked at Inventory - the priority had been to convert it to use PostgreSQL instead of MySQL, and then a few bugs in the accounting. This first priority had taken quite a bit of work, as NOLA took full advantedge of the non-standard features of MySQL (e.g. assigning NULL to a primary key)." This doesn't sound exactly like a project that is using MySQL as their primary backend... -- If this was helpful, rate me http://cbbrowne.com/info/internet.html Trivialize a user's bug report by pointing out that it was fixed independently long ago in a system that hasn't been released yet. -- from the Symbolics Guidelines for Sending Mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 13:49:22 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 09:49:22 -0400 Subject: GNUe & MySQL AB ? -was-My fiscal ... In-Reply-To: <20040520114621.7782A40B1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> <40A3E2FF.7010409@truxtar.com> <20040519015811.1509E4038@cbbrowne.com> <20942C83-A9DF-11D8-A26E-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <20040520114621.7782A40B1@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <7FAACC36-AA64-11D8-B9B7-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 20-May-04, at 7:46, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: >> This is interesting to me as GNUe was (mid-2003) using MySQL AB >> as their back end (LOL) . Any one know what GNUe's preferred DBMS >> now is ? > > This doesn't sound exactly like a project that is using MySQL as their > primary backend... Woh ... I checked my insanity levels , it was more like mid-2002 ... time flies ... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 15:12:28 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:12:28 -0400 Subject: Konqueror default Tree View Message-ID: <40ACCADC.8040705@onlink.net> I use Konqueror as my file manager. It opens in Icon View instead of Tree View. It's a small thing but an extra click every time I open it. I want it to open in Tree View. I went to Settings > Configure Konqueror and see nothing under Behaviour, Appearance or others that will set the default as Tree View. Right-clicking the arrow in upper left-hand corner of Konqueror and choosing Store Window Settings does not preserve Tree View from session to session either. Right-clicking arrow and choosing Configure Window Behaviour shows nothing promising either. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 15:29:16 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:29:16 -0400 Subject: Konqueror default Tree View In-Reply-To: <40ACCADC.8040705-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <40ACCADC.8040705@onlink.net> Message-ID: <743767CF-AA72-11D8-B9B7-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 20-May-04, at 11:12, Chris Aitken wrote: > I use Konqueror as my file manager. It opens in Icon View instead of > Tree View. It's a small thing but an extra click every time I open it. > I want it to open in Tree View. > > I went to Settings > Configure Konqueror and see nothing under > Behaviour, Appearance or others that will set the default as Tree > View. Right-clicking the arrow in upper left-hand corner of Konqueror > and choosing Store Window Settings does not preserve Tree View from > session to session either. Right-clicking arrow and choosing Configure > Window Behaviour shows nothing promising either. I do not know use Konqueror , but googled , and what appears to be the answer immediately was mine : " Konq has 4 'personalities'. You can change these by Window|LoadViewProfile. " When you change a profile to the way you like it, Window|SaveViewProfile. If that is no longer the case , I imagine that you can use that info for keywords to refine your search . HTH , Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 15:54:50 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 11:54:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Horde - Imp Message-ID: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> I am thinking of changing my webmail to the Horde - Imp. Does any one have any experience with this software? What are the pros and cons? Cheers, Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 18:59:43 2004 From: jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Jim Taylor) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:59:43 -0400 Subject: Konqueror default Tree View In-Reply-To: <40ACCADC.8040705-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <40ACCADC.8040705@onlink.net> Message-ID: <200405201459.43266.jim@taylors.ca> All that's needed is a change under view. View>view mode>tree. On May 20, 2004 11:12 am, Chris Aitken wrote: > I use Konqueror as my file manager. It opens in Icon View instead of > Tree View. It's a small thing but an extra click every time I open it. I > want it to open in Tree View. > > I went to Settings > Configure Konqueror and see nothing under > Behaviour, Appearance or others that will set the default as Tree View. > Right-clicking the arrow in upper left-hand corner of Konqueror and > choosing Store Window Settings does not preserve Tree View from session > to session either. Right-clicking arrow and choosing Configure Window > Behaviour shows nothing promising either. > > Chris > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Jim Taylor Taylors Business Services Ltd. v 416-651-1967 F 416-651-8691 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 19:54:50 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 15:54:50 -0400 Subject: Horde - Imp In-Reply-To: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel-x+51dyBjWAXWACMXUf19CQ@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> Message-ID: <200405201554.51316.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Thursday 20 May 2004 11:54, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I am thinking of changing my webmail to the Horde - Imp. Does any one have > any experience with this software? What are the pros and cons? I've had one bad experience with it a few years ago. It uses apache shared memory and seemed to destabilize the entire apache server. That was an older version, perhaps a buggy apache, who knows ... these days maybe it's better. I use squirrelmail, my girlfriend always complains I'm not as good as yahoo since there's no spell checker ... gotta find the plugin. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 20:11:04 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:11:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Horde - Imp In-Reply-To: <200405201554.51316.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> <200405201554.51316.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <34663.216.75.189.140.1085083864.squirrel@216.75.189.140> I would be happy to stay with Squirrelmail except that I don't understand its internationalization model. To read messages in Japanese I need to change the entire interface into Japanese. I have done a lot of searching but it seems that this is the way the developers set up internationalization. Personally, I don't get it. So, I am in the market for a new webmail system. On a related note, I think that internationalization settings are a tremendous weakness for Linux. The various input methods pale in comparison to the offering from Redmond, overall integration is terrible, and the documentation is sparse and vague. I have been trying to get my installed Japanese fonts working with Java and it is a complete nightmare. Running java applets is presently my main reason for using Windows. Sorry for the rant, but the state of affairs drives me crazy. On Thu, May 20, 2004 3:54 pm, Fraser Campbell said: > I use squirrelmail, my girlfriend always complains I'm not as good as > yahoo > since there's no spell checker ... gotta find the plugin. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 20:24:18 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 23:24:18 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: linux + usb 'dongle' wireless 802.11 ? Message-ID: Has anyone got experience with the tiny USB 'dongle' style 802.11 wireless adapters that are available ? If so, good, bad, and which make ? tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 20:24:26 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:24:26 -0400 Subject: Horde - Imp In-Reply-To: <34663.216.75.189.140.1085083864.squirrel-x+51dyBjWAXWACMXUf19CQ@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> <200405201554.51316.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <34663.216.75.189.140.1085083864.squirrel@216.75.189.140> Message-ID: <40AD13FA.7080407@sympatico.ca> Noah John Gellner wrote: > > On a related note, I think that internationalization settings are a > tremendous weakness for Linux. Amen to that. It really bugs me that I can't get proper Unicode displays in Mozilla under Gentoo. At best, it displays hex-numbered boxes. At worst, it displays completely incorrect characters, which is far worse than useless. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 20:31:19 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:31:19 -0400 Subject: linux + usb 'dongle' wireless 802.11 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40AD1597.2020903@passport.ca> I'm using one from INEXQ http://69.36.71.90/web1/english/product/detail_1.asp?c1=Wireless+Solution&c2=Wireless+Network+Solutions&c3=2%2E4GHz+802%2E11b+Wireless+LAN&c4=UR012i Seems to work fine. Jim >Has anyone got experience with the tiny USB 'dongle' style 802.11 wireless >adapters that are available ? If so, good, bad, and which make ? > >tia, >Peter > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 20:37:47 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin Acton) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 16:37:47 -0400 Subject: linux + usb 'dongle' wireless 802.11 ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40AD171B.1070806@yorku.ca> Peter L. Peres wrote: > Has anyone got experience with the tiny USB 'dongle' style 802.11 wireless > adapters that are available ? If so, good, bad, and which make ? I have a Linksys one. I forget the prefix, but something model # 12. It's a prism2 chip inside. Works fine with the linux-wlan-ng or aphost drivers. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 21:28:50 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:28:50 -0400 Subject: internationalisation (was: Horde - Imp) In-Reply-To: <34663.216.75.189.140.1085083864.squirrel-x+51dyBjWAXWACMXUf19CQ@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> <200405201554.51316.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <34663.216.75.189.140.1085083864.squirrel@216.75.189.140> Message-ID: <200405201728.50430.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On May 20, 2004 04:11 pm, Noah John Gellner wrote: > On a related note, I think that internationalization settings are a > tremendous weakness for Linux. The various input methods pale in > comparison to the offering from Redmond, overall integration is terrible, > and the documentation is sparse and vague. I have been trying to get my > installed Japanese fonts working with Java and it is a complete nightmare. > Running java applets is presently my main reason for using Windows. Sorry > for the rant, but the state of affairs drives me crazy. while i'm about as unilingual as you could get, i've found that the availability of multiple character sets and languages is handled pretty well in kde. a friend of mine came over to my english-only computer, logged into her korean msn account through kopete and had no issues reading the names of all her friends in korean. i didn't have the korean keyboard layout installed (for obvious reasons) but i would think the transition would be just as easy. -- "I've never understood that. Why does the universe give us puzzles with no answers?" "Pay back, maybe?" -- G'Kar and Franklin in Babylon 5:"The Wheel of Fire" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 21:47:22 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 17:47:22 -0400 Subject: webmail apps -was- Horde - Imp In-Reply-To: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel-x+51dyBjWAXWACMXUf19CQ@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> Message-ID: <4651ED88-AAA7-11D8-B9B7-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 20-May-04, at 11:54, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I am thinking of changing my webmail to the Horde - Imp. I noted that istop.com had set up both TWIG and SqWebMai . I do not know if you have already considered either of those options. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 22:20:12 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:20:12 -0400 Subject: Konqueror default Tree View In-Reply-To: <200405201459.43266.jim-NZ0Nh92OcoOw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <40ACCADC.8040705@onlink.net> <200405201459.43266.jim@taylors.ca> Message-ID: <40AD2F1C.9000302@onlink.net> Jim Taylor wrote: >All that's needed is a change under view. View>view mode>tree. > > Yeah, there is a button that does that as well. But that setting does not persist from session to session. I want Konqueror to default to Tree View. [...] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 22:27:24 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 18:27:24 -0400 Subject: webmail apps -was- Horde - Imp Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC51012E3E@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> I offer horde and sqwebmail to my customers. Most of them use horde and I do not have any issues with either. Actually, I do remember one issue with Horde and that person could not open attachments. I switched them to Sqwebmail and the problem went a way. It was only with that one person or least no one else has brought it to my attention. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd Budd Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 5:47 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: webmail apps -was- Horde - Imp On 20-May-04, at 11:54, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I am thinking of changing my webmail to the Horde - Imp. I noted that istop.com had set up both TWIG and SqWebMai . I do not know if you have already considered either of those options. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu May 20 23:34:29 2004 From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Sergey Semenyuk) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 19:34:29 -0400 Subject: Horde - Imp In-Reply-To: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel-x+51dyBjWAXWACMXUf19CQ@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> Message-ID: <000601c43ec3$029b3f10$0201a8c0@winxp> I deal with couple of providers that use Horde-Imp. In general it's okay. Couple of inconveniences (different for every provider). The ones I have noticed are: 1) It never adds a full name to the From field in outgoing messages. Nothing bad about it, but would be nice sometimes. 2) In one case, I've seen it improperly processing addresses when "Reply All" is used. 3) Opening attachments can be confusing, because when you click on an attachment's link, in some cases, it tries can get you just a blank window. Clicking on the floppy disk icon always works fine (people are different). 4) In some cases, when you use "Back" if you open a message in the same window, you get to a session timeout. Reload works, but, people are different. And clicking on Inbox if you have a lot of messages sometimes returns you to a first page, rather that to one you've tried to open the message on. But in general it is rather good. Sergey -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Noah John Gellner Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 11:55 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Horde - Imp I am thinking of changing my webmail to the Horde - Imp. Does any one have any experience with this software? What are the pros and cons? Cheers, Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 00:31:52 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 20:31:52 -0400 Subject: Konqueror default Tree View In-Reply-To: <743767CF-AA72-11D8-B9B7-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40ACCADC.8040705@onlink.net> <743767CF-AA72-11D8-B9B7-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <40AD4DF8.3080302@onlink.net> Lloyd Budd wrote: > > On 20-May-04, at 11:12, Chris Aitken wrote: > >> I use Konqueror as my file manager. It opens in Icon View instead of >> Tree View. It's a small thing but an extra click every time I open >> it. I want it to open in Tree View. >> [...] > > " Konq has 4 'personalities'. You can change these by > Window|LoadViewProfile. > " When you change a profile to the way you like it, > Window|SaveViewProfile. > > I read the article at your link. That did it. Thank you very much. : ) Chris [...] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 04:08:44 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:08:44 -0400 Subject: How to find all man (3) pages ? Message-ID: <20040521040844.GB1313@m450> How do I get a list of all man (3) pages, or man (n) where n is a valid number ? "man man" doesn't help. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 04:19:40 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:19:40 -0400 Subject: How to find all man (3) pages ? In-Reply-To: <20040521040844.GB1313-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040521040844.GB1313@m450> Message-ID: > How do I get a list of all man (3) pages, or man (n) where n is a > valid number ? "man man" doesn't help. well, man pages are sorted by directories... thus if you look in /usr/man/man3/ you'll see a few pages in there. Check your manpath for all the primary man directories; in each one look for a man3. another way is probably to do: 'locate man3', which will give you a few false positives, but you can probably filter out the noise. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 04:41:30 2004 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 00:41:30 -0400 Subject: How to find all man (3) pages ? In-Reply-To: <20040521040844.GB1313-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org> References: <20040521040844.GB1313@m450> Message-ID: <20040521044130.GA910@biff.bort.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2004 at 12:08:44AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > How do I get a list of all man (3) pages, or man (n) where n is a > valid number ? "man man" doesn't help. man -k . | awk '$2~/\(3\)/' -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 12:06:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:06:50 -0400 Subject: Horde - Imp In-Reply-To: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel-x+51dyBjWAXWACMXUf19CQ@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> Message-ID: <20040521120650.GA21339@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, May 20, 2004 at 11:54:50AM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I am thinking of changing my webmail to the Horde - Imp. Does any one have > any experience with this software? What are the pros and cons? I remember it as being one of the packages most likely to break on upgrades. :) It is pretty good, and has a nice interface, although last I tried it it had no search option although the cvs versio at the time supposedly did. I find squirrelmail is nice too. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 15:16:17 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 11:16:17 -0400 Subject: Email Problem In-Reply-To: <200405211957.20105.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405211957.20105.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20040521151617.GA2429@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, May 21, 2004 at 07:57:20PM +0800, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > Hi, > > We are just a subsidiary and our mail are relayed from the mother company to > our LAN Mail server.. just recently they implemented a spam filtering > technique.. now some mails from legal senders are bouncing off... with this > error.. > ==== > The following recipient(s) could not be reached: > > users-jMbK1v/RW1uaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org on 5/21/2004 9:25 AM > You do not have permission to send to this recipient. For > assistance, contact your system administrator. > DNS for xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx,or use your ISP server > > ==== > Can someone explain to me this error.. It's doing reverse DNS check to see if MAIL FROM is the same as IP. This kind of check is not recommended, because there are many legitimate reason for having envelope sender address different from where you send it. Eg. you'll never receive email response from or me. :-) -- William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 13:21:24 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 09:21:24 -0400 Subject: Email Problem In-Reply-To: <200405211957.20105.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200405211957.20105.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200405210921.24187.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On Friday 21 May 2004 07:57, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > ? ? ? ? ? ? DNS for xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx,or use your ISP server > > ==== > ????????Can someone explain to me this error.. DNS maps hostnames to IP addresses, like this: $ host tlug.ss.org tlug.ss.org A 204.225.177.38 It can also do the reverse, mapping IP addresses to hostnames: $ host 204.225.177.38 Name: tlug.ss.org Address: 204.225.177.38 The mail server in question is probably rejecting your email because your IP address does not have a reverse mapping (PTR record). It is not standard practice from what I see to block based on a missing PTR but it is not that uncommon either ... you should fix it. Contact your ISP and advise them that you would like reverse entries installed for your IP addresses (the IP addresses that you use when connecting to the Internet). -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 21:09:31 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:09:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Email Problem In-Reply-To: <20040521151617.GA2429-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040521151617.GA2429@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, William Park wrote: > It's doing reverse DNS check to see if MAIL FROM is the same as IP. That's fairly unlikely, since there are *many* situations where the two wouldn't match. (Although stupid people might fail to realize this...) More likely, I would think, is that it is looking up the IP to get a name for that number, checking that for consistency, and finding that it fails the test. (Look up number, that gives you a name. To check, look up the name, giving you possibly several numbers, and if the original number isn't in that list, there's trouble -- this check should *never* fail.) Many ISPs are sloppy about providing *consistent* forward and reverse DNS entries, especially for dialup lines. And some anti-spam filter systems really want a *reliable* name for the other end, to use in things like bad-guy database lookups... so it's not surprising that it might insist on a name that passes the consistency check. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 11:57:20 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:57:20 +0800 Subject: Email Problem Message-ID: <200405211957.20105.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi, We are just a subsidiary and our mail are relayed from the mother company to our LAN Mail server.. just recently they implemented a spam filtering technique.. now some mails from legal senders are bouncing off... with this error.. ==== The following recipient(s) could not be reached: users-jMbK1v/RW1uaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org on 5/21/2004 9:25 AM You do not have permission to send to this recipient. For assistance, contact your system administrator. References: <200405211957.20105.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20040521180834.GK9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, May 21, 2004 at 07:57:20PM +0800, Jerome Macaranas wrote: > We are just a subsidiary and our mail are relayed from the mother company to > our LAN Mail server.. just recently they implemented a spam filtering > technique.. now some mails from legal senders are bouncing off... with this > error.. > ==== > The following recipient(s) could not be reached: > > users-jMbK1v/RW1uaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org on 5/21/2004 9:25 AM > You do not have permission to send to this recipient. For > assistance, contact your system administrator. > DNS for xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx,or use your ISP server > > ==== > Can someone explain to me this error.. It seems to indicate that the IP of the sending mail server either has incorrect or no reverse dns info. At least people on dynamic IPs often can not send email directly anymore, but instead must go through their local ISP for the mail to be accepted by the other mail server. Perhaps this is related. Many of these implement it by saying anything without a reverse dns name or a reverse dns name that contains part of the ip in it, is blocked, since it probably isn't the "real" mail server for that IP. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 14:54:04 2004 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 10:54:04 -0400 Subject: Horde - Imp In-Reply-To: <34663.216.75.189.140.1085083864.squirrel-x+51dyBjWAXWACMXUf19CQ@public.gmane.org> References: <33077.216.75.189.140.1085068490.squirrel@216.75.189.140> <200405201554.51316.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <34663.216.75.189.140.1085083864.squirrel@216.75.189.140> Message-ID: <1085151244.16890.1166.camel@rincewind.discworld> For native applications GTK2 should have fixed that with Pango. Java is...well...Java. It's always a pain. Mozilla internationalization support is getting better as they use more GTK2 features. I'm sure if you check their bugzilla they'll have a tracker bug or something for internationalization issues. More on topic though, I used Horde/Imp a few years back and was quite happy with it then. I just started using it again in a recent project and so far no complaints. I've never run in to stability issues and, frankly, the sheer number of large scale deployments it has gives me a reasonable degree of confidence in it overall. (my.utoronto.ca webmail runs a customized version of Horde/Imp.) On Thu, 2004-05-20 at 16:11, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I would be happy to stay with Squirrelmail except that I don't understand > its internationalization model. To read messages in Japanese I need to > change the entire interface into Japanese. I have done a lot of searching > but it seems that this is the way the developers set up > internationalization. Personally, I don't get it. So, I am in the market > for a new webmail system. > > On a related note, I think that internationalization settings are a > tremendous weakness for Linux. The various input methods pale in > comparison to the offering from Redmond, overall integration is terrible, > and the documentation is sparse and vague. I have been trying to get my > installed Japanese fonts working with Java and it is a complete nightmare. > Running java applets is presently my main reason for using Windows. Sorry > for the rant, but the state of affairs drives me crazy. > > On Thu, May 20, 2004 3:54 pm, Fraser Campbell said: > > > I use squirrelmail, my girlfriend always complains I'm not as good as > > yahoo > > since there's no spell checker ... gotta find the plugin. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Marcus Brubaker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 00:01:48 2004 From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:01:48 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Considered UNSOLICITED BULK EMAIL from you] Message-ID: <40AE986C.8070408@sympatico.ca> I just received a bunch of these notices (about 13 and not all the same), all between 5:17 and 5:28PM today, along with 3 spam bounces stamped at 5:17PM. Every one of them was because of e-mails I supposedly sent to tlug-route-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, but they are dated March 21 '04. What is tlug-route-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org? Some of the notices make it look as if I sent the e-mails with Outlook Express, which I've never used and is not installed on any of my PCs, not to mention that I only use linux nowadays. Anyone else getting these or know what is going on? John. -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: amavisd-new Subject: Considered UNSOLICITED BULK EMAIL from you Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 17:19:54 -0400 (EDT) Size: 4062 URL: From pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 00:41:14 2004 From: pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 20:41:14 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40A3A704.4050703-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40A3A704.4050703@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> Another link that may be of use. http://news.com.com/Open-source+companies+see+profit+aplenty/2100-7344_3-5216387.html?tag=nl paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 03:09:34 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:09:34 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0-dJRs/J2CRps7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 21-May-04, at 20:41, Paul DiRezze wrote: > Another link that may be of use. > > http://news.com.com/Open-source+companies+see+profit+aplenty/2100 > -7344_3-5216387.html?tag=nl That is fantastically poor journalism ... or I should say standard journalism . It does not talk about profitability other than hand waving . The MySQL vise-chief marketeer Zack Urlocker provides quite the 'sound' bite , "There's always going to be grassroots people... who see open source as a free ride" . Like many , Zack Urlocker , also presents confusing information about licensing . I can modify GPL software (within fair use) without distributing the resulting source , as long as I do not distribute , or copy (outside of fair use) the software . Entity law seems like where distribute and copy may becoming interesting ;-) Lastly , who considers Novell or IBM , "Open-source companies" ?! Speaking out of his .... , Lloyd -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 03:21:36 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 23:21:36 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> Lloyd Budd wrote: > > On 21-May-04, at 20:41, Paul DiRezze wrote: > >> Another link that may be of use. >> >> http://news.com.com/Open-source+companies+see+profit+aplenty/2100 >> -7344_3-5216387.html?tag=nl > > > That is fantastically poor journalism ... or I should say > standard journalism . > > It does not talk about profitability other than hand waving . > > The MySQL vise-chief marketeer Zack Urlocker provides > quite the 'sound' bite , "There's always going to be grassroots > people... who see open source as a free ride" . > > Like many , Zack Urlocker , also presents confusing > information about licensing . I can modify GPL software > (within fair use) without distributing the resulting source , > as long as I do not distribute , or copy (outside of fair use) > the software . Entity law seems like where distribute and > copy may becoming interesting ;-) > > Lastly , who considers Novell or IBM , > "Open-source companies" ?! > > > Speaking out of his .... , > Lloyd Well, on the IBM/Novell being open-source question, I do. IBM is standing up against the first legal challenge to OSS and Novell is sticking their neck out to land some nice blows in the same battleThey have thus proven that they are players in OSS and thus are, in my mind, very much OSS companies (specially Novell). I am learning fast that supporting OSS on a professional level requires a delicate balance of covering your bottom line and providing your share to the community whom you are benefiting from. Novell and IBM (and Redhat, etc.) are doing that balancing act nicely. Madison - Who is still working on an open-source strategy of her own... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 04:13:54 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:13:54 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40AEC740.4090401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 21-May-04, at 23:21, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Well, on the IBM/Novell being open-source question, I do. IBM is > standing up against the first legal challenge to OSS Did / does IBM have any choice ? > I am learning fast that supporting OSS on a professional level > requires a delicate balance of covering your bottom line and providing > your share to the community whom you are benefiting from. Novell and > IBM (and Redhat, etc.) are doing that balancing act nicely. Considering IBM is by far the most active patenting company [1] , I find it interesting that you consider IBM's approach balanced . Do you not consider patents a danger to OSS ? Do you not desire significant patent reform ? Further , I do not consider IBM an open source company , because only an insignificant amount of their software is open source . IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a profitability equation . IBM is a fantastic contributer to OSS and our society , but I do *not* call IBM an OSS Company . - [1] Eleven years as the world's top patenter , and by a huge divide . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 04:19:30 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:19:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org> References: <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote: > IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a profitability > equation . This is good, actually. Religious fervor usually fades, while profitability is persistent. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 04:23:55 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:23:55 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> Message-ID: <40AED5DB.501@alteeve.com> Lloyd Budd wrote: > > On 21-May-04, at 23:21, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> >> Well, on the IBM/Novell being open-source question, I do. IBM is >> standing up against the first legal challenge to OSS > > Did / does IBM have any choice ? > >> I am learning fast that supporting OSS on a professional level >> requires a delicate balance of covering your bottom line and providing >> your share to the community whom you are benefiting from. Novell and >> IBM (and Redhat, etc.) are doing that balancing act nicely. > > Considering IBM is by far the most active patenting company [1] , > I find it interesting that you consider IBM's approach balanced . > Do you not consider patents a danger to OSS ? Do you not > desire significant patent reform ? > > Further , I do not consider IBM an open source company , because > only an insignificant amount of their software is open source . IBM > does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a profitability > equation . > > IBM is a fantastic contributer to OSS and our society , but I do *not* > call IBM an OSS Company . > > - > [1] Eleven years as the world's top patenter , and by a huge divide . I do think that patents need reform in a bad way but so far as I can tell IBM isn't one of those companies that bait 'n switches like so many others. As far as I can tell they have so many patents so that they can cover their ass not litigate to profit (again, like so many others). I also don't think that IBM contributes so much raw code as I would like but their contribution is still very tangible. They are contributing by making OSS a legitamite option for big business and thus giving OSS credit everywhere. Remember the old (and still true) expression "No one gets fired for choosing IBM."? There you go. No, they didn't have so much of a choice in the law suit but they certainly did have a choice on how they handled it. They could very easily have bought SCO with a hostile take over for less hassle and cost then the court case is probably costing them but they chose instead to make a stand and end the question of whether OSS is legally sound. So again, I think IBM is an open source company. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 04:27:53 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:27:53 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40AED6C9.3040005@alteeve.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote: > >>IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a profitability >>equation . > > > This is good, actually. Religious fervor usually fades, while > profitability is persistent. Very, very true. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 04:33:19 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:33:19 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40AED5DB.501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AED5DB.501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <2688CA7C-ABA9-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 22-May-04, at 0:23, Madison Kelly wrote: > No, they didn't have so much of a choice in the law suit but they > certainly did have a choice on how they handled it. They could very > easily have bought SCO with a hostile take over for less hassle and > cost then the court case is probably costing them but they chose > instead to make a stand and end the question of whether OSS is legally > sound. A hostile takeover would likely have been as bad IBM losing the case . I doubt it relates , but most companies do not negotiate with terrorists ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 04:36:06 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 00:36:06 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40AED6C9.3040005-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40AED6C9.3040005@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <8A1D0E20-ABA9-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 22-May-04, at 0:27, Madison Kelly wrote: > Henry Spencer wrote: >> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote: >>> IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a >>> profitability >>> equation . >> This is good, actually. Religious fervor usually fades, while >> profitability is persistent. > > Very, very true. LOL , I hope I am laffing with you , but what is very true !? I think the good news that you are both trying to share is that OSS can lead to excellent profitability . I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 05:00:14 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 01:00:14 -0400 Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please In-Reply-To: <40AED5DB.501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AED5DB.501@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On 22-May-04, at 0:23, Madison Kelly wrote: > As far as I can tell they have so many patents so that they can cover > their ass not litigate to profit (again, like so many others). Your assertion is nonsensical . The buttock can be equally well covered without patenting . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 06:56:03 2004 From: pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 02:56:03 -0400 Subject: More info for those seeking to develop open source software Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.0.20040522025512.00bb0e88@POP2.sympatico.ca> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/wlg/4909 paul -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 13:02:30 2004 From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:02:30 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Considered UNSOLICITED BULK EMAIL from you] In-Reply-To: <40AE986C.8070408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <40AE986C.8070408@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <48648690-ABF0-11D8-8046-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> On 21-May-04, at 20:01, Moniz Family wrote: > I just received a bunch of these notices (about 13 and not all the > same), all between 5:17 and 5:28PM today, along with 3 spam bounces > stamped at 5:17PM. Every one of them was because of e-mails I > supposedly sent to tlug-route-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, but they are dated March 21 '04. > > What is tlug-route-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org? tlug-route and similar "TLUG mailing list addresses" have been targeted , discussed , but with no action being taken to resolve . > Some of the notices make it look as if I sent the e-mails with > Outlook Express, which I've never used and is not installed on any of > my PCs, not to mention that I only use linux nowadays. > > Anyone else getting these or know what is going on? Yes , only 1 I noticed . What is going on is you are likely the victim of a virus . I am not suggesting you have a virus , but some one has a virus , and likely because you were in that MS address book the virus knew that it had a longer life expectancy and chance to propagate masquerading as you --and likely other people . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 16:46:15 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:46:15 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: usb 802.11 dongle: thanks to all who responded Message-ID: thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri May 21 16:40:11 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 19:40:11 +0300 (IDDT) Subject: How to find all man (3) pages ? In-Reply-To: References: <20040521040844.GB1313@m450> Message-ID: On Fri, 21 May 2004, Jing Su wrote: > .. snip .. > another way is probably to do: 'locate man3', which will give you a few > false positives, but you can probably filter out the noise. more exactly, locate /man3/ Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 13:48:20 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 09:48:20 -0400 Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name... Message-ID: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> Hi all, I need to read in the results of an 'ls' call to a bunch of variables (in Perl) and I am doing so like this: =- Snip open (LS, "ls -lA '$mnt_dir' 2>&1 |"); while () { s/\n//; # The first $perm will be "total" ($perm, $num, $owner, $group, $size, $month, $day, $time_year, $file)=split/\s+/; =- Snip My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some files and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man page and the closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape character before the space but that would only be marginally helpful. What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave the file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the space back. Anyone have any ideas that might help? The only thing I can think of is to add a whole bunch of $file1, $file2, $file3, ... $file# and then splice them back together but that would be cumbersome and also create a limit on the number of spaces that could be in a file name (and risk missing those above that). Thanks yet again all!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 14:19:58 2004 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:19:58 -0400 Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name... In-Reply-To: <40AF5A24.4040808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040522141958.GB28880@biff.bort.ca> On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 09:48:20AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I need to read in the results of an 'ls' call to a bunch of variables > (in Perl) and I am doing so like this: > > =- Snip > open (LS, "ls -lA '$mnt_dir' 2>&1 |"); > while () > { > s/\n//; chomp; > # The first $perm will be "total" > ($perm, $num, $owner, $group, $size, $month, $day, > $time_year, $file)=split/\s+/; Limit the number of fields to split into: split " ", $_, 9; perldoc -f split -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 14:22:11 2004 From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:22:11 -0400 Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name... In-Reply-To: <40AF5A24.4040808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: Hi Madison Try adding the switch, then substituting a magic char for the escape-blank combo, then do the split. Check for magic char first if you're paranoid. BTW why s/\n// rather than chomp? Jim > > My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some >files and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man page >and the closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape >character before the space but that would only be marginally helpful. > > What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some >other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave >the file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the >space back. > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 14:28:24 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:28:24 -0400 Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40AF6388.7090504@alteeve.com> As often happens, just after posting I saw the '-Q' switch which adds double quotes to the file name so I can split on that first. I decided to use 's/\n//' rather than 'chop' (which I had been using) and 'chomp' because it seemed more intelligent to me. I couldn't see any way that the $_ would not end in a newline but I figured it was better safe than sorry so I wanted to cut only newlines instead of indescriminately chop/chomp'ing. Madison (who wishes to remind people that she is a n00b programmer and open to critique!) :p Jim Rootham wrote: > Hi Madison > > Try adding the switch, then substituting a magic char for the escape-blank > combo, then do the split. Check for magic char first if you're paranoid. > > BTW why s/\n// rather than chomp? > > Jim > > >> My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some >>files and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man page >>and the closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape >>character before the space but that would only be marginally helpful. >> >> What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some >>other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave >>the file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the >>space back. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 14:30:16 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:30:16 -0400 Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name... In-Reply-To: <20040522141958.GB28880-Aco4KUUxZ1MCzWx7n4ubxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <20040522141958.GB28880@biff.bort.ca> Message-ID: <40AF63F8.9080704@alteeve.com> Rick Delaney wrote: > On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 09:48:20AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>Hi all, >> >> I need to read in the results of an 'ls' call to a bunch of variables >>(in Perl) and I am doing so like this: >> >> =- Snip >> open (LS, "ls -lA '$mnt_dir' 2>&1 |"); >> while () >> { >> s/\n//; > > > chomp; > > >> # The first $perm will be "total" >> ($perm, $num, $owner, $group, $size, $month, $day, >> $time_year, $file)=split/\s+/; > > > Limit the number of fields to split into: > > split " ", $_, 9; > > perldoc -f split > Ahh!!!! I hadn't realised that you could limit the number of splits. That should do perfectly! By the way, Jim also recommended 'chomp' over substitue. May I ask (both of your) reasoning on this? Being a new perl programmer I am very open to tips and suggestions. Thanks!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat May 22 14:52:15 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 10:52:15 -0400 Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name... In-Reply-To: <40AF5A24.4040808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <40AF691F.4040002@alteeve.com> With Rick and Jim's input I have my problem solved! The new code snipet is: =- snip open (LS, "ls -lAQ --full-time '$mnt_dir' 2>&1 |"); print "
\n";
	while ()
	{
		s/\n//;
		# The first $perm will be "total"
		($perm, $num, $owner, $group, $size, $date, $time, $time_zone, 
$file)=split/\s+/, $_, 9;
  =- snip

Thanks again!!

Madison

PS - If there is a fair argument for switching to 'chomp' I still will.
PPS - I changed the 'ls' call to fix the the time stamp, too.

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   I need to read in the results of an 'ls' call to a bunch of variables 
> (in Perl) and I am doing so like this:
> 
>  =- Snip
>     open (LS, "ls -lA '$mnt_dir' 2>&1 |");
>     while ()
>     {
>         s/\n//;
>         # The first $perm will be "total"
>         ($perm, $num, $owner, $group, $size, $month, $day, $time_year, 
> $file)=split/\s+/;
>  =- Snip
> 
>   My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some 
> files and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man page 
> and the closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape 
> character before the space but that would only be marginally helpful.
> 
>   What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some 
> other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave 
> the file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the 
> space back.
> 
>   Anyone have any ideas that might help?
> 
>   The only thing I can think of is to add a whole bunch of $file1, 
> $file2, $file3, ... $file# and then splice them back together but that 
> would be cumbersome and also create a limit on the number of spaces that 
> could be in a file name (and risk missing those above that).
> 
>   Thanks yet again all!!
> 
> Madison


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 15:09:30 2004
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:09:30 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in
  their name...
In-Reply-To: <40AF5A24.4040808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.1.1.2.20040522110450.02cb4c80@mail.interlog.com>

At 09:48 AM 05/22/2004, Madison wrote:
>   My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some 
> files and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man page 
> and the closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape 
> character before the space but that would only be marginally helpful.
>
>   What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some 
> other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave the 
> file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the space back.

Seems simple to handle. Tell the 'ls' command to add the escape for 
filenames/dirs containing spaces. Change the escaped space to the three 
chars %20, split on spaces, then change "%20" back to either a single space 
or an escaped space.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb-XXPEJ3/fxIc at public.gmane.org#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include    |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 15:14:12 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:14:12 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in  their
 name...
In-Reply-To: <6.0.1.1.2.20040522110450.02cb4c80-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <6.0.1.1.2.20040522110450.02cb4c80@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <40AF6E44.4090104@alteeve.com>

Kevin Cozens wrote:
> At 09:48 AM 05/22/2004, Madison wrote:
> 
>>   My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some 
>> files and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man 
>> page and the closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape 
>> character before the space but that would only be marginally helpful.
>>
>>   What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some 
>> other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave 
>> the file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the 
>> space back.
> 
> 
> Seems simple to handle. Tell the 'ls' command to add the escape for 
> filenames/dirs containing spaces. Change the escaped space to the three 
> chars %20, split on spaces, then change "%20" back to either a single 
> space or an escaped space.
> 
> 
> Cheers!

   Yep, that would have worked perfectly, too. Darn, from no good ideas 
to two in a TLUG minute... :p

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 15:52:57 2004
From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:52:57 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in
 their  name...
In-Reply-To: <40AF63F8.9080704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040522141958.GB28880@biff.bort.ca>
 <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <20040522141958.GB28880@biff.bort.ca>
Message-ID: 

chop is indescriminate but chomp is not.  chop was the  original idiom
but it did not always Do The Right Thing.  chomp is designed to do that,
so even where there is no difference other programmers looking at
your code will see what they expect.

>   By the way, Jim also recommended 'chomp' over substitue. May I ask
>(both of your) reasoning on this? Being a new perl programmer I am very
>open to tips and suggestions. Thanks!!
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 17:03:50 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:03:50 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their
 name...
In-Reply-To: <40AF5A24.4040808-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40AF87F6.30105@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   I need to read in the results of an 'ls' call to a bunch of variables 
> (in Perl) and I am doing so like this:
> 
>  =- Snip
>     open (LS, "ls -lA '$mnt_dir' 2>&1 |");
>     while ()
>     {
>         s/\n//;
>         # The first $perm will be "total"
>         ($perm, $num, $owner, $group, $size, $month, $day, $time_year, 
> $file)=split/\s+/;
>  =- Snip
> 
>   My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some 
> files and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man page 
> and the closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape 
> character before the space but that would only be marginally helpful.
> 
>   What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some 
> other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave 
> the file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the 
> space back.
> 
>   Anyone have any ideas that might help?
> 
>   The only thing I can think of is to add a whole bunch of $file1, 
> $file2, $file3, ... $file# and then splice them back together but that 
> would be cumbersome and also create a limit on the number of spaces that 
> could be in a file name (and risk missing those above that).


Perhaps I'm missing something, but it doesn't seem like there's much of 
a problem, if you approach it in the right way.  If you do a "ls -lA", 
you'll notice that the file or directory is always the last item, on a 
line with a fixed number of items.  Why not just pull off the first 
eight items, using the space separator and take the rest of the line as 
the file or directory name?


-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 3232 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL: 

From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 17:46:34 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 13:46:34 -0400
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please
In-Reply-To: <40AED5DB.501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AED5DB.501@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040522174634.GA13844@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 12:23:55AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> I do think that patents need reform in a bad way but so far as I can 
> tell IBM isn't one of those companies that bait 'n switches like so many 
> others. As far as I can tell they have so many patents so that they can 
> cover their ass not litigate to profit (again, like so many others).

It wasn't IBM that was bothering people for using GIFs.  That was unisys
(although how they both got the patent, who knows).

Besides if you patent it first, then it is probably easier to defend
against others than if they patent something that you have already done
(then you have to deal with showing all the prior art and that.)

> I also don't think that IBM contributes so much raw code as I would like 
> but their contribution is still very tangible. They are contributing by 
> making OSS a legitamite option for big business and thus giving OSS 
> credit everywhere. Remember the old (and still true) expression "No one 
> gets fired for choosing IBM."? There you go.

Hmm, EVMS, Postfix, OpenAFS, etc...  I think they contribute quite a
bit.  JFS filesystem, a lot of NUMA support (although they sell a lot of
the hardware that needs it), and probably other things.  They did
contribute the s390 port (although I imagine that is largely for their
own sales benefits too).

> No, they didn't have so much of a choice in the law suit but they 
> certainly did have a choice on how they handled it. They could very 
> easily have bought SCO with a hostile take over for less hassle and cost 
> then the court case is probably costing them but they chose instead to 
> make a stand and end the question of whether OSS is legally sound.
> 
> So again, I think IBM is an open source company.

Me too.  I think their current Linux adds are very odd, but who knows
what that's about.  IBM is a services company, and open source is not a
problem for their profitability, and seems to possibly be a benefit for
them, especially if it helps keep Microsoft under control a bit.
Besides by having access to open tools that others help develop and
maintain it allows IBM to sell more scalable solutions now that they
have an open OS running on all of their hardware with an identical API
from low end handheld to huge mainframe hardware.  Imagine if they had
had to start from scratch and develop all that for the entire lineup.
It seems better for business to sell solutions and customization and
support, than to develop and sell software directly.

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 17:44:05 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:44:05 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
Message-ID: 


hi, I just got a bunch of emails with a virus in them, one purportedly
from john moniz, who is on the piclist. Whoever responds to the rogers ID
and IP:

CPE0040f45b7dd5-CM000e5c708cae.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.78.60]

had better run virus checkers on their computers asap.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 17:51:07 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:51:07 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source
 - advice please
In-Reply-To: <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca>
 <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com>
 <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
Message-ID: 


On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:

>
> On 21-May-04, at 23:21, Madison Kelly wrote:
> >
> >   Well, on the IBM/Novell being open-source question, I do. IBM is
> > standing up against the first legal challenge to OSS
> Did / does IBM have any choice ?

I guess IBM has all the choices, plus any it makes up on the way. You do
realize that if they put half their mind (and a few percent of their cash)
to it, they can take over *all* other players (including Novell and Oracle
and whoever else is in it now) in this shenanigan, before the current case
finishes sloshing in the courts ?

> not call IBM an OSS Company .

Amen. However, they are getting their feet wet here and there. F. ex. you
are reading this eail courtesy of postfix ...

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 18:11:31 2004
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:11:31 -0400
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <40AF97D3.6060101@sympatico.ca>

As per my last post on this, I don't think it's coming from me unless 
there's a new linux virus in the wild that we haven't been told about. I 
am not a rogers subscriber either and only use linux. Also see Lloyd 
Budd's reply to my other post.

John.


Peter L. Peres wrote:

>hi, I just got a bunch of emails with a virus in them, one purportedly
>from john moniz, who is on the piclist. Whoever responds to the rogers ID
>and IP:
>
>CPE0040f45b7dd5-CM000e5c708cae.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.78.60]
>
>had better run virus checkers on their computers asap.
>
>Peter
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 18:38:16 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:38:16 -0400
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> 
Message-ID: <3038043A-AC1F-11D8-9391-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>


On 22-May-04, at 13:51, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> You do
> realize that if they put half their mind (and a few percent of their 
> cash)
> to it, they can take over *all* other players (including Novell and 
> Oracle
> and whoever else is in it now) in this shenanigan, before the current 
> case
> finishes sloshing in the courts ?

Take over Oracle ? @ 50B $ and with ~25% being owned by insiders ?!  
Assuming that it is not impossible , even with my limited commerce 
knowledge , I know that it is so impractical that it could not happen 
today .

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 18:51:15 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 14:51:15 -0400
Subject: software patents
In-Reply-To: <20040522174634.GA13844-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AED5DB.501@alteeve.com> <20040522174634.GA13844@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <00B776CA-AC21-11D8-9391-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>


On 22-May-04, at 13:46, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> (although how they both got the patent, who knows).
Does that really surprise you given the current system .

> Besides if you patent it first, then it is probably easier to defend
> against others than if they patent something that you have already done
> (then you have to deal with showing all the prior art and that.)
Without published source code yes , but otherwise I would not think so ,
particularly considering I have heard that most patents are convoluted
such that it is can be difficult to identify when two are patenting the
exact same thing .

Maybe , I am just jealous of IBM's patent on paying software developers
 ;-)

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 19:10:20 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:10:20 -0400
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source
 - advice please
In-Reply-To: 
References: <5.1.1.5.0.20040521204047.02352de0@POP2.sympatico.ca> <73630980-AB9D-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> <40AEC740.4090401@alteeve.com> <7053467C-ABA6-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> 
Message-ID: <40AFA59C.1070604@rogers.com>

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
> 
>>On 21-May-04, at 23:21, Madison Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>  Well, on the IBM/Novell being open-source question, I do. IBM is
>>>standing up against the first legal challenge to OSS
>>
>>Did / does IBM have any choice ?
> 
> 
> I guess IBM has all the choices, plus any it makes up on the way. You do
> realize that if they put half their mind (and a few percent of their cash)
> to it, they can take over *all* other players (including Novell and Oracle
> and whoever else is in it now) in this shenanigan, before the current case
> finishes sloshing in the courts ?

Last I heard, they own a chunk of Novell/SuSE.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 3232 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL: 

From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 19:56:17 2004
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 15:56:17 -0400
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <40AFB061.3050409@sympatico.ca>

Peter L. Peres wrote:

>hi, I just got a bunch of emails with a virus in them, one purportedly
>from john moniz, who is on the piclist. Whoever responds to the rogers ID
>and IP:
>
>CPE0040f45b7dd5-CM000e5c708cae.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.78.60]
>
>had better run virus checkers on their computers asap.
>
>Peter
>  
>
I just remembered that I received something the other day that looked 
like it had a virus attached (readme.zip file, which contained a 
document.txt .exe file when I viewed the content through my RH archive 
preview). I just retrieved it from the trash bin and it came from a 
similar source ID:

cpe0040d025c13a-cm014080005035.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (HELO sympatico.ca) (65.50.38.217)

It came to me from jbertoglio-Wuw85uim5zDuFKmmi/icCA at public.gmane.org

John.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 21:48:21 2004
From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:48:21 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name...
In-Reply-To: <40AF63F8.9080704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <20040522141958.GB28880@biff.bort.ca> <40AF63F8.9080704@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040522214821.GC28880@biff.bort.ca>

On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 10:30:16AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>   By the way, Jim also recommended 'chomp' over substitue. May I ask 
> (both of your) reasoning on this? Being a new perl programmer I am very 
> open to tips and suggestions. Thanks!!

It's just semantics.  When reading line-by-line

     chomp; # remove the record separator if there is one

and 

     s/\n//;# remove the first newline character you find

will do the same thing but the meaning of the former seems to match the
intention of the code better.

You are right to avoid chop, which says "remove the last character".
This is certainly not what you mean and will cause you problems when the
last character is not newline.

-- 
Rick Delaney
rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 22:15:38 2004
From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 18:15:38 -0400
Subject: linux mirror at utoronto.ca
Message-ID: <200405221815.38317.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca>


This might be common knowledge to people here, but
just in case, there are mirrors of some popular linux
distributions (debian, fedora, mandrake, slackware,
suse) available at ftp://ftp.utoronto.ca/mirror/linux/.

As far as I can tell, this site isn't listed as an official mirror
on the distribution download pages.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 23:14:45 2004
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:14:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please
In-Reply-To: <8A1D0E20-ABA9-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <8A1D0E20-ABA9-11D8-96E0-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> >>> IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a 
> >>> profitability equation .
> >> This is good, actually.  Religious fervor usually fades, while
> >> profitability is persistent.
> > Very, very true.
> 
> ...I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion .

Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
consensus on where one ends and the other begins.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 23:36:48 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:36:48 -0400
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source
 - advice please
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
>>>>>IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a 
>>>>>profitability equation .
>>>>
>>>>This is good, actually.  Religious fervor usually fades, while
>>>>profitability is persistent.
>>>
>>>Very, very true.
>>
>>...I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion .
> 
> 
> Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
> consensus on where one ends and the other begins.


Religion is a delusion.  Morality is not.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 3232 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL: 

From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 22 23:41:14 2004
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 19:41:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source
 - advice please
In-Reply-To: <40AFE410.8020208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 22 May 2004, James Knott wrote:

> Henry Spencer wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>> 
>>>>>> IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a 
>>>>>> profitability equation .
>>>>> 
>>>>> This is good, actually.  Religious fervor usually fades, while
>>>>> profitability is persistent.
>>>> 
>>>> Very, very true.
>>> 
>>> ...I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion .
>> 
>> 
>> Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
>> consensus on where one ends and the other begins.
>
>
> Religion is a delusion.  Morality is not.

      Religion is a delusion.  Morality is an illusion.

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 00:00:23 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:00:23 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
Message-ID: <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com>

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>> Religion is a delusion.  Morality is not.
> 
> 
>      Religion is a delusion.  Morality is an illusion.

Hi both,

   Now I know you where making a joke (with the possibility that you 
were not) but for some here (myself included) "religion" is certainly 
not a delusion now is morality an illusion.

   Many people are Atheists or Agnostic and that is fine but for some 
religion is key to their life and how they move through it. Morality is 
something that is often lacking in this world that, if it was cultured, 
would help reduce the endless anger and violence. Isn't Linux 
essentially a morality? The morality being that sharing makes for a 
better world (in this case software). Profit making aside, everyone in 
Linux must contribute to keep the whole going. Look how well it has worked.

   Now if only we could take the Linux morality to other aspects of life 
(and beyond kindergarden where the idea still thrives).

Madison



--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 00:06:49 2004
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:06:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please
In-Reply-To: <40AFE410.8020208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 22 May 2004, James Knott wrote:
> >>...I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion .
> > Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
> > consensus on where one ends and the other begins.
> 
> Religion is a delusion.  Morality is not.

See above comment on lack of consensus. :-)

Moreover, "delusions are often functional":  people can get value out of
religious beliefs even if aspects of them are factually false.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 00:21:13 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:21:13 -0400
Subject: linux mirror at utoronto.ca
In-Reply-To: <200405221815.38317.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405221815.38317.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20040523002113.GA26208@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 06:15:38PM -0400, Fred Nastos wrote:
> This might be common knowledge to people here, but
> just in case, there are mirrors of some popular linux
> distributions (debian, fedora, mandrake, slackware,
> suse) available at ftp://ftp.utoronto.ca/mirror/linux/.
> 
> As far as I can tell, this site isn't listed as an official mirror
> on the distribution download pages.

I tend to treat university mirrors, as mirrors to allow students much
faster access to the software, and a way to save bandwidth for the
university overall (if people use it).

I tend not to use them from elsewhere, as they are often not the fastest
connected to non educational networks, and I see no reason to waste
their bandwidth charges when other (probably faster) mirrors exist.  A
few have public official mirrors, in which case I may use them
occationally if others are down (york has an official debian mirror for
example).

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 00:26:45 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:26:45 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40AFE997.1000003-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040523002645.GB26208@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 08:00:23PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
>   Now I know you where making a joke (with the possibility that you 
> were not) but for some here (myself included) "religion" is certainly 
> not a delusion now is morality an illusion.
> 
>   Many people are Atheists or Agnostic and that is fine but for some 
> religion is key to their life and how they move through it. Morality is 
> something that is often lacking in this world that, if it was cultured, 
> would help reduce the endless anger and violence. Isn't Linux 
> essentially a morality? The morality being that sharing makes for a 
> better world (in this case software). Profit making aside, everyone in 
> Linux must contribute to keep the whole going. Look how well it has worked.

Actually as long as some qualified people contribute, the rest don't
HAVE to contribute.  It will still work just fine.  There are many users
of Linux who think it is their right to have everything for nothing, and
expect everything to work and people to fix it for them if it doesn't.
Fortunately the system doesn't break because of this.

As for religion, I unfortunately think some people use religion as an
excuse to not be moral.  Fortunately it seems pretty rare.

>   Now if only we could take the Linux morality to other aspects of life 
> (and beyond kindergarden where the idea still thrives).

Hmm, I wonder what kindergardens you have seen.  I find most kids that
age have no concept of morals, only of desire to have things their way.
:)

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 00:44:27 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 20:44:27 -0400
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
In-Reply-To: <40AFB061.3050409-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFB061.3050409@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20040523004427.GA5798@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 03:56:17PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote:
> Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> >hi, I just got a bunch of emails with a virus in them, one purportedly
> >from john moniz, who is on the piclist. Whoever responds to the rogers ID
> >and IP:
> >
> >CPE0040f45b7dd5-CM000e5c708cae.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.78.60]
> >
> >had better run virus checkers on their computers asap.
> >
> >Peter
> > 
>
> I just remembered that I received something the other day that looked 
> like it had a virus attached (readme.zip file, which contained a 
> document.txt .exe file when I viewed the content through my RH archive 
> preview). I just retrieved it from the trash bin and it came from a 
> similar source ID:
> 
> cpe0040d025c13a-cm014080005035.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (HELO sympatico.ca) 
> (65.50.38.217)
> 
> It came to me from jbertoglio-Wuw85uim5zDuFKmmi/icCA at public.gmane.org

I got one

    Received: from sympatico.ca (CPE0040f45b7dd5-CM000e5c708cae.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.78.60])
	    by lethe.ss.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967986D78F
	    for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:16:33 -0400 (EDT)
    From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
    To: tlug-route-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 01:36:32 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 21:36:32 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40AFE997.1000003-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> 
>>> Religion is a delusion.  Morality is not.
>>
>>
>>
>>      Religion is a delusion.  Morality is an illusion.
> 
> 
> Hi both,
> 
>   Now I know you where making a joke (with the possibility that you were 
> not) but for some here (myself included) "religion" is certainly not a 
> delusion now is morality an illusion.
> 
>   Many people are Atheists or Agnostic and that is fine but for some 
> religion is key to their life and how they move through it. Morality is 
> something that is often lacking in this world that, if it was cultured, 
> would help reduce the endless anger and violence. Isn't Linux 
> essentially a morality? The morality being that sharing makes for a 
> better world (in this case software). Profit making aside, everyone in 
> Linux must contribute to keep the whole going. Look how well it has worked.
> 
>   Now if only we could take the Linux morality to other aspects of life 
> (and beyond kindergarden where the idea still thrives).

I have never claimed that religion is not important to people.  However, 
the entire idea of a "God" or other deity is most certainly a delusion. 
  Such beliefs were developed as a way to explain the world, at a time 
when there was no other explanation.  Now it's just fiction.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature
Size: 3232 bytes
Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
URL: 

From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 02:13:10 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:13:10 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B00020.3020707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: 


On 22-May-04, at 21:36, James Knott wrote:
>  However, the entire idea of a "God" or other deity is most certainly 
> a delusion.  Such beliefs were developed as a way to explain the 
> world, at a time when there was no other explanation.  Now it's just 
> fiction.

Now there is explanation ?  "Is there consensus on where [science] ends 
and [faith] begins" ?

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 02:26:22 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:26:22 -0400
Subject: morality != religion and doing OSS != OSS company
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <95353204-AC60-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>


On 22-May-04, at 19:14, Henry Spencer wrote:

> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>>>> IBM does not feel morally driven to OSS , it is strictly a
>>>>> profitability equation .
>>>> This is good, actually.  Religious fervor usually fades, while
>>>> profitability is persistent.
>>> Very, very true.
>>
>> ...I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion .
>
> Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
> consensus on where one ends and the other begins.

Your response seems to be misdirection .  I am starting to think
so was your previous response . I do not see why you think
"this is good" , nor what "religious fervor fading" has to do with
IBM not feelmorally driven to OSS .

I was not and am not suggesting that them not being OSS morally
driven is a bad thing , but I am suggesting that is what I would
see as a condition of a OSS company .  At least one other
condition I would suggest is being an active partner in patent
reform , and more generally IP law .

I think another condition is not being partners with enemies of
OSS .

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 02:55:16 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:55:16 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com> 
Message-ID: <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>

Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
> On 22-May-04, at 21:36, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>  However, the entire idea of a "God" or other deity is most certainly 
>> a delusion.  Such beliefs were developed as a way to explain the 
>> world, at a time when there was no other explanation.  Now it's just 
>> fiction.
> 
> 
> Now there is explanation ?  "Is there consensus on where [science] ends 
> and [faith] begins" ?

Well, science is generally demonstratable and provable.  Faith is simply 
what some people believe, with little or no basis in reality.

If I make a claim in science, I have to provide a complete description 
of the process taken to arrive at a conclusion and it must be 
repeatable.  With faith, there is little to substantiate the claims.

There's a couple of books worth reading on this area.  They are Carl 
Sagan's "A Demon Haunted World" and "Voodoo Science" by Robert Park.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 03:02:22 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:02:22 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B01294.10209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>


On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:

> Lloyd Budd wrote:
>> On 22-May-04, at 21:36, James Knott wrote:
>>>  However, the entire idea of a "God" or other deity is most 
>>> certainly a delusion.  Such beliefs were developed as a way to 
>>> explain the world, at a time when there was no other explanation.  
>>> Now it's just fiction.
>> Now there is explanation ?  "Is there consensus on where [science] 
>> ends and [faith] begins" ?
>
> Well, science is generally demonstratable and provable.  Faith is 
> simply what some people believe, with little or no basis in reality.
>
> If I make a claim in science, I have to provide a complete description 
> of the process taken to arrive at a conclusion and it must be 
> repeatable.  With faith, there is little to substantiate the claims.

You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)

I think it is a powerful statement that many of the "top scientists" 
today , and historically , not to mention Linux Luminaries ;-) , 
believe in God .


> There's a couple of books worth reading on this area.  They are Carl 
> Sagan's "A Demon Haunted World" and "Voodoo Science" by Robert Park.
If I were to read just one ?

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 03:13:54 2004
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:13:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:

>
> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>
> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)

     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 03:22:54 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:22:54 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> 
Message-ID: <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com>

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
>>
>> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>>
>> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
> 
> 
>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......

   Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god but I do believe in 
Khamma and Dhamma (the former being analogous to the laws of physics 
that define our physical world except it governs the spiritual world and 
the later being the teachings of Buddhism).

   That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs in 
god. My mom, for example, is devoutly catholic and even presents surmons 
at her church every other Sunday). For her (and others who believe in 
god) He/She/It/They is/are a manifestation of the start of creation as 
we know and a point to focus on when trying to decide the meaning of 
their life and existance. If for no other reason than as a psychological 
tool god is both real and important.

   For you and other agnostics you have decided that you don't need to 
believe in god or any other higher being and that life simply is. The 
trade off is that you need to realize the need, benefit and reality of 
god to others as much as they need to understand your lack of need.

   Each group has simply chosen how they will face life and neither is 
mopre wrong or right.

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 03:36:14 2004
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 23:36:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: morality != religion and doing OSS != OSS company
In-Reply-To: <95353204-AC60-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <95353204-AC60-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> > Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
> > consensus on where one ends and the other begins.
> 
> Your response seems to be misdirection .  I am starting to think
> so was your previous response . I do not see why you think
> "this is good" , nor what "religious fervor fading" has to do with
> IBM not feelmorally driven to OSS .

It's good that IBM has *practical* motives to be interested in open
source, because if they had instead undergone a religious conversion to
fervent support of open source regardless of practical motives, the odds
are good that they would eventually change their minds.

The *only* way open source is ever going to make it in the business world
is if it looks more profitable than the alternative.  And if it does, the
business world will adopt it without feeling "morally driven".

Corporations like IBM are not mysterious evil entities separate from the
rest of the world.  Their capital funding comes from stockholders, who
entrust them with it in hopes that they can make it grow; corporations
exist solely for that purpose.  Their *highest* *moral* *obligation*,
rising above all others (except, for practical reasons, compliance with
applicable laws), is to make those investments grow in value.  That's the
duty they owe to their owners.  Expecting corporations to disregard
profitability in the name of some other objective is asking them to throw
away the money of people who trusted them -- a thoroughly immoral act. 
Corporations' moral obligations to their stockholders largely preclude
them from being "morally driven" by other considerations. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 04:00:16 2004
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:00:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B0190E.4000401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sat, 22 May 2004, Madison Kelly wrote:

> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>>> 
>>> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
>> 
>>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
>
>  Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god but I do believe in Khamma 
> and Dhamma (the former being analogous to the laws of physics that define our 
> physical world except it governs the spiritual world and the later being the 
> teachings of Buddhism).
>
>  That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs in god. 
> My mom, for example, is devoutly catholic and even presents surmons at her 
> church every other Sunday). For her (and others who believe in god) 
> He/She/It/They is/are a manifestation of the start of creation as we know and 
> a point to focus on when trying to decide the meaning of their life and 
> existance. If for no other reason than as a psychological tool god is both 
> real and important.

     Why god, and not the tooth fairy, or Santa Claus?

>  For you and other agnostics you have decided that you don't need to believe 
> in god or any other higher being and that life simply is. The trade off is 
> that you need to realize the need, benefit and reality of god to others as 
> much as they need to understand your lack of need.
>
>  Each group has simply chosen how they will face life and neither is mopre 
> wrong or right.

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 04:10:43 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:10:43 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com> 
Message-ID: <40B02443.1070504@alteeve.com>

Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>>  Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god but I do believe in 
>> Khamma and Dhamma (the former being analogous to the laws of physics 
>> that define our physical world except it governs the spiritual world 
>> and the later being the teachings of Buddhism).
>>
>>  That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs in 
>> god. My mom, for example, is devoutly catholic and even presents 
>> surmons at her church every other Sunday). For her (and others who 
>> believe in god) He/She/It/They is/are a manifestation of the start of 
>> creation as we know and a point to focus on when trying to decide the 
>> meaning of their life and existance. If for no other reason than as a 
>> psychological tool god is both real and important.
 >>
>>  For you and other agnostics you have decided that you don't need to 
>> believe in god or any other higher being and that life simply is. The 
>> trade off is that you need to realize the need, benefit and reality of 
>> god to others as much as they need to understand your lack of need.
>>
>>  Each group has simply chosen how they will face life and neither is 
>> mopre wrong or right.
> 
> 
>     Why god, and not the tooth fairy, or Santa Claus?

   The tooth fairy and Santa Clause are not, and were never meant to be, 
sources of enlightenment or purpose. They are both childhood 
distractions only and thus serve only an entertainment value.

   You are looking for something akin to scientific proof on a subject 
that scientific observation doesn't apply. It is a psycological tool 
and, arguably, a construct, that helps people move through life. That 
very purpose gives it legitamecy and value. The trick is (tangent ->), 
like any "tool", it can (and often is) abused and used outside of it's 
intended purpose. Much like a hammer can be abused to destroy a window, 
religion and god can be used to destroy life and peace when used for the 
wrong means.

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 04:20:05 2004
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 00:20:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B02443.1070504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com>
  <40B02443.1070504@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 23 May 2004, Madison Kelly wrote:

> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>>>  Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god but I do believe in 
>>> Khamma and Dhamma (the former being analogous to the laws of physics 
>>> that define our physical world except it governs the spiritual world and 
>>> the later being the teachings of Buddhism).
>>> 
>>>  That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs in 
>>> god. My mom, for example, is devoutly catholic and even presents surmons 
>>> at her church every other Sunday). For her (and others who believe in 
>>> god) He/She/It/They is/are a manifestation of the start of creation as 
>>> we know and a point to focus on when trying to decide the meaning of 
>>> their life and existance. If for no other reason than as a psychological 
>>> tool god is both real and important.
>>>
>>>  For you and other agnostics you have decided that you don't need to 
>>> believe in god or any other higher being and that life simply is. The 
>>> trade off is that you need to realize the need, benefit and reality of 
>>> god to others as much as they need to understand your lack of need.
>>> 
>>>  Each group has simply chosen how they will face life and neither is 
>>> mopre wrong or right.
>> 
>> 
>>     Why god, and not the tooth fairy, or Santa Claus?
>
>  The tooth fairy and Santa Clause are not, and were never meant to be, 
> sources of enlightenment or purpose. They are both childhood distractions 
> only and thus serve only an entertainment value.
>
>  You are looking for something akin to scientific proof on a subject that 
> scientific observation doesn't apply. It is a psycological tool and, 
> arguably, a construct,

     In other words, a fiction.

> that helps people move through life. That very purpose 
> gives it legitamecy and value. The trick is (tangent ->), like any "tool", it 
> can (and often is) abused and used outside of it's intended purpose. Much 
> like a hammer can be abused to destroy a window, religion and god can be used 
> to destroy life and peace when used for the wrong means.

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 08:05:37 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 04:05:37 -0400
Subject: morality != religion and doing OSS != OSS company
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


On 22-May-04, at 23:36, Henry Spencer wrote:

> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>> Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is 
>>> there
>>> consensus on where one ends and the other begins.
>>
>> Your response seems to be misdirection .  I am starting to think
>> so was your previous response . I do not see why you think
>> "this is good" , nor what "religious fervor fading" has to do with
>> IBM not feelmorally driven to OSS .
>
> It's good that IBM has *practical* motives to be interested in open
> source, because if they had instead undergone a religious conversion to
> fervent support of open source regardless of practical motives, the 
> odds
> are good that they would eventually change their minds.

At least you consistent in your misdirection .  No one could suggest 
that
you have demonstarated that you equating morality with religion , but it
is does seem that you are not willing to separate them for clarity of
discussion .

It is ironic that the main reason that Open Source is profitable is 
because
of non-profit motivations of individuals .  Such a potent poison .

Was IBM  a leader in the areas where IBM has supported open source ?

The result is moral conformance , at the very least to allow people to
ensure that secure , high quality programs run on their computer
systems .


> The *only* way open source is ever going to make it in the business 
> world
> is if it looks more profitable than the alternative.  And if it does, 
> the
> business world will adopt it without feeling "morally driven".
>
> Corporations like IBM are not mysterious evil entities separate from 
> the
> rest of the world.  Their capital funding comes from stockholders, who
> entrust them with it in hopes that they can make it grow; corporations
> exist solely for that purpose.
Possibly the single most wrong thing with the free world .  Corporations
are legally required to do exactly what you describe , regardless of the
negative impact on humanities health .

> Their *highest* *moral* *obligation*,
> rising above all others (except, for practical reasons, compliance with
> applicable laws), is to make those investments grow in value.  That's 
> the
> duty they owe to their owners.
That is not true .  Possibly I am wasting my time responding to another
misdirection .  Corporations legal obligation to their stockholders 
largely
preclude them from being morally obligations to their stockholders , or
anyone else

> Expecting corporations to disregard
> profitability in the name of some other objective is asking them to 
> throw
> away the money of people who trusted them -- a thoroughly immoral act.
Disregard profitability ? Throw away the money !?

> Corporations' moral obligations to their stockholders largely preclude
> them from being "morally driven" by other considerations.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 08:20:59 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 04:20:59 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B0190E.4000401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1EDD8B30-AC92-11D8-996F-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>


On 22-May-04, at 23:22, Madison Kelly wrote:
>   Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god
My limited understanding of Buddhism suggests that you also don't
believe in not god ;-)
"Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming."


>   That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs 
> in god.
Unfortunately , one of the only religions (or governments) that has .

The religious position that someone who does not share that religion's
beliefs is damned , (and unworthy of interaction except to "save" that
someone) is ... immoral .

What are the religions that are fully accepting of other faiths ?

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 11:57:11 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 07:57:11 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
Message-ID: <40B09197.7040004@rogers.com>

Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:

>> Well, science is generally demonstratable and provable.  Faith is 
>> simply what some people believe, with little or no basis in reality.
>>
>> If I make a claim in science, I have to provide a complete description 
>> of the process taken to arrive at a conclusion and it must be 
>> repeatable.  With faith, there is little to substantiate the claims.
> 
> 
> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
> 
> I think it is a powerful statement that many of the "top scientists" 
> today , and historically , not to mention Linux Luminaries ;-) , believe 
> in God .

You may have heard of someone named Albert Einstein.  He found his 
religious beliefs contradicted the results of his work and for the 
longest time, refused to accecpt quantum physics.  He finally came to 
the realization that he was right and his beliefs wrong.
> 
> 
>> There's a couple of books worth reading on this area.  They are Carl 
>> Sagan's "A Demon Haunted World" and "Voodoo Science" by Robert Park.
> 
> If I were to read just one ?

Take your pick.  Both are excellent books, covering a range of topics.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 12:10:37 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:10:37 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B0190E.4000401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40B094BD.2080905@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>>>
>>> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
> 
> 
>   Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god but I do believe in 
> Khamma and Dhamma (the former being analogous to the laws of physics 
> that define our physical world except it governs the spiritual world and 
> the later being the teachings of Buddhism).
> 
>   That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs in 
> god. My mom, for example, is devoutly catholic and even presents surmons 
> at her church every other Sunday). For her (and others who believe in 
> god) He/She/It/They is/are a manifestation of the start of creation as 
> we know and a point to focus on when trying to decide the meaning of 
> their life and existance. If for no other reason than as a psychological 
> tool god is both real and important.
> 
>   For you and other agnostics you have decided that you don't need to 
> believe in god or any other higher being and that life simply is. The 
> trade off is that you need to realize the need, benefit and reality of 
> god to others as much as they need to understand your lack of need.

As I said before, I don't doubt some people need to believe in fiction. 
  However, you take any religion, and you'll have a hard time finding 
facts in the real world to back it up.  Faith does not make reality. And 
far to many people in this world take religious belief as reality and 
use their favourite fiction, to impose their beliefs on others, and when 
taken to extreme, you have the situation in the middle east etc.

You want to believe fairy tales?  Fine, just keep them to yourself and 
quit claiming it's "God's" will" etc.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 12:19:03 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:19:03 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B02443.1070504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com>  <40B02443.1070504@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40B096B7.6080603@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> 
>>>  Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god but I do believe in 
>>> Khamma and Dhamma (the former being analogous to the laws of physics 
>>> that define our physical world except it governs the spiritual world 
>>> and the later being the teachings of Buddhism).
>>>
>>>  That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs 
>>> in god. My mom, for example, is devoutly catholic and even presents 
>>> surmons at her church every other Sunday). For her (and others who 
>>> believe in god) He/She/It/They is/are a manifestation of the start of 
>>> creation as we know and a point to focus on when trying to decide the 
>>> meaning of their life and existance. If for no other reason than as a 
>>> psychological tool god is both real and important.
> 
>  >>
> 
>>>  For you and other agnostics you have decided that you don't need to 
>>> believe in god or any other higher being and that life simply is. The 
>>> trade off is that you need to realize the need, benefit and reality 
>>> of god to others as much as they need to understand your lack of need.
>>>
>>>  Each group has simply chosen how they will face life and neither is 
>>> mopre wrong or right.
>>
>>
>>
>>     Why god, and not the tooth fairy, or Santa Claus?
> 
> 
>   The tooth fairy and Santa Clause are not, and were never meant to be, 
> sources of enlightenment or purpose. They are both childhood 
> distractions only and thus serve only an entertainment value.
> 
>   You are looking for something akin to scientific proof on a subject 
> that scientific observation doesn't apply. It is a psycological tool 
> and, arguably, a construct, that helps people move through life. That 
> very purpose gives it legitamecy and value. The trick is (tangent ->), 
> like any "tool", it can (and often is) abused and used outside of it's 
> intended purpose. Much like a hammer can be abused to destroy a window, 
> religion and god can be used to destroy life and peace when used for the 
> wrong means.

I completely agree with this.  Religion can be an excellent metaphor. 
However, it can also be harmful.  Either way, it's still fiction.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 12:29:43 2004
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 08:29:43 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B094BD.2080905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com> <40B094BD.2080905@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <40B09937.70306@onlink.net>

James Knott wrote:

> Madison Kelly wrote:
>
>> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>> [...]
>>
>>
>
> As I said before, I don't doubt some people need to believe in 
> fiction.  However, you take any religion, and you'll have a hard time 
> finding facts in the real world to back it up.  Faith does not make 
> reality. And far to many people in this world take religious belief as 
> reality and use their favourite fiction, to impose their beliefs on 
> others, and when taken to extreme, you have the situation in the 
> middle east etc.

Religion is destroying my family. My wife is fundamentalist Christian. 
She won't even call it religion. She says that all other faiths are 
"religion" whereas her faith is just the truth. You know like it's the 
truth that we're all going to Hell just like it's the truth I'm typing 
this email. Her friends can't talk about anything without straining it 
through their Christian seive first. My seven year-old daughter looks to 
one of my wife's friends as some king of scientist. She asks him, "Is 
Hallowe'en the devil's birthday?". "Why, yes it is", he affirms. I 
thought my wife was a little less loopy. We're grocery shopping and I'm 
trying to avoid foods with carcinogens like sodium nitrate. My wife, 
fresh from church in the morning and a private fundamentalist meeting in 
the afternoon asks, "Won't blessing the food take care of that?".

>
> You want to believe fairy tales?  Fine, just keep them to yourself and 
> quit claiming it's "God's" will" etc.

I have problem with people using faith to guide their actions but it's 
the certainty that worries me.

Sincerely,

Chris-without-the-"tian"

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 13:08:53 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:08:53 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B09937.70306-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com> <40B094BD.2080905@rogers.com> <40B09937.70306@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <40B0A265.8010606@rogers.com>

Chris Aitken wrote:
> James Knott wrote:
> 
>> Madison Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>>> [...]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As I said before, I don't doubt some people need to believe in 
>> fiction.  However, you take any religion, and you'll have a hard time 
>> finding facts in the real world to back it up.  Faith does not make 
>> reality. And far to many people in this world take religious belief as 
>> reality and use their favourite fiction, to impose their beliefs on 
>> others, and when taken to extreme, you have the situation in the 
>> middle east etc.
> 
> 
> Religion is destroying my family. My wife is fundamentalist Christian. 
> She won't even call it religion. She says that all other faiths are 
> "religion" whereas her faith is just the truth. You know like it's the 
> truth that we're all going to Hell just like it's the truth I'm typing 
> this email.

I know of someone like that.  She and her husband were handling the 
correspondence for a group I belong to.  They decided they should start 
including religious quotes, in the e-mails they sent on behalf of the 
group.  They were told not to, because there are people of different 
faiths in that group and those quotes might be offensive to some.  Her 
response was that every other belief was wrong as she knew the "truth" 
and it was her duty to spread the word etc.  In short, she was "full of 
it".  They have since left the group.

Incidentally, last Monday I heard something unbelievable on the radio. 
A German couple had been trying for eight years to have a baby.  They 
finally went to a ferility clinic, where they both checked out fine. 
They were then asked how often they had sex.  Apparently never!!!  They 
had come from religious families, where the facts of life never came 
up!!!  This is an example of the sort of ignorance that can come from 
following religious beliefs.

History is full of examples of ignorance imposed by religion.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 13:57:21 2004
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:57:21 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B09937.70306-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com> <40B094BD.2080905@rogers.com> <40B09937.70306@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <40B0ADC1.8030700@onlink.net>

Chris Aitken wrote:

> [...]
>
>>
>> You want to believe fairy tales?  Fine, just keep them to yourself 
>> and quit claiming it's "God's" will" etc.
>
>
> I have problem with people using faith to guide their actions but it's 
> the certainty that worries me.

Sorry, that should read, "I have *no* problem..."

[...]

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 13:57:33 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 09:57:33 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <1EDD8B30-AC92-11D8-996F-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com> <1EDD8B30-AC92-11D8-996F-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
Message-ID: <40B0ADCD.6020504@alteeve.com>

Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
> On 22-May-04, at 23:22, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>>   Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god
> 
> My limited understanding of Buddhism suggests that you also don't
> believe in not god ;-)
> "Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming."
> 
> 
>>   That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs 
>> in god.
> 
> Unfortunately , one of the only religions (or governments) that has .
> 
> The religious position that someone who does not share that religion's
> beliefs is damned , (and unworthy of interaction except to "save" that
> someone) is ... immoral .
> 
> What are the religions that are fully accepting of other faiths ?

   That link to Buddhanet was a great way to explain what I meant, thank 
you. It is worth mentioning that "suspend judgement means that though we 
don't believe in a god ourselves, we don't say others are wrong for 
believing themselves.

   On you question; I am certainly not a theologist so I can hazard a 
guess only. I know that the precept of Buddhism is to never discount 
another person out of hand (or at all) because we must accept that we 
can be wrong. Therefor, I feel it is justified to say that Buddhism 
respects other religions (though it certainly does -not- condone the use 
of a given religion as a tool to cause suffering to others). If I 
remember, Hinduism has a saying that states (roughly paraphrased):

   "If a person lives north of a city and another person lives south of 
the city and both travel to that city, each will be travelling in the 
opposite direction. Are either going the wrong way? That is religion."

   "Acceptance" I am taking to mean respect for other's beliefs. 
Obviously a person from one religion will not accept the tenants of 
another religion as true because to do so would be to convert :).

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 14:06:19 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:06:19 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B094BD.2080905-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <40B0190E.4000401@alteeve.com> <40B094BD.2080905@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <40B0AFDB.1000707@alteeve.com>

James Knott wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>> Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>>>>
>>>> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>>>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
>>
>>
>>
>>   Being Buddhist means I too don't believe in god but I do believe in 
>> Khamma and Dhamma (the former being analogous to the laws of physics 
>> that define our physical world except it governs the spiritual world 
>> and the later being the teachings of Buddhism).
>>
>>   That said, I totally understand and respect other people's beliefs 
>> in god. My mom, for example, is devoutly catholic and even presents 
>> surmons at her church every other Sunday). For her (and others who 
>> believe in god) He/She/It/They is/are a manifestation of the start of 
>> creation as we know and a point to focus on when trying to decide the 
>> meaning of their life and existance. If for no other reason than as a 
>> psychological tool god is both real and important.
>>
>>   For you and other agnostics you have decided that you don't need to 
>> believe in god or any other higher being and that life simply is. The 
>> trade off is that you need to realize the need, benefit and reality of 
>> god to others as much as they need to understand your lack of need.
> 
> 
> As I said before, I don't doubt some people need to believe in fiction. 
>  However, you take any religion, and you'll have a hard time finding 
> facts in the real world to back it up.  Faith does not make reality. And 
> far to many people in this world take religious belief as reality and 
> use their favourite fiction, to impose their beliefs on others, and when 
> taken to extreme, you have the situation in the middle east etc.
> 
> You want to believe fairy tales?  Fine, just keep them to yourself and 
> quit claiming it's "God's" will" etc.

   I will be the first to agree that many people try to use their 
religious beliefs as a beating stick and to me those people miss the 
tenants of their own religion by a mile (that was my "hammer" analogy). 
I think most people's objection to faith isn't the person's faith but 
rather the tendancy for people to insist that others must agree with 
their faith.

   This I speak from personal experience, having been raised Catholic 
and been subject first hand to the attempted brain washing of those 
"church goers" who felt they had the right to judge me from day one and 
to thus punish me for not following their beliefs. When I finally 
started studying Chritianity (and then other religions) it was obvious 
that what they had done and the way they acted was well outside their 
own core teachings. ("Love thy neighbor", "Judge not lest ye be judged 
yourself",  "Let he free of sin cast the first stone", etc...).

   The first trick in respecting other religions is to seperate the 
people who abuse the religion they claim as theirs from the religion 
itself. "God, save me from your followers!" - kind of like that.

Madison

PS - I am not arguing for the validity of other religions (or even my 
own), I simply am arguing for understanding.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 15:10:56 2004
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 23 May 2004 11:10:56 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name...
In-Reply-To: <40AF87F6.30105-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <40AF87F6.30105@rogers.com>
Message-ID: 

James Knott  writes:

> Madison Kelly wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >   I need to read in the results of an 'ls' call to a bunch of variables (in
> > Perl) and I am doing so like this:
> 
> >  =- Snip
> 
> >     open (LS, "ls -lA '$mnt_dir' 2>&1 |");
> >     while ()
> >     {
> >         s/\n//;
> >         # The first $perm will be "total"
> >         ($perm, $num, $owner, $group, $size, $month, $day, $time_year,
> > $file)=split/\s+/;
> 
> >  =- Snip
> >   My problem is that I am just straight splitting on spaces and some files
> > and directory names have spaces in them. I read the 'ls' man page and the
> > closest thing I could find was a switch to add an escape character before
> > the space but that would only be marginally helpful.
> 
> >   What I need is some way to show the file or directory name with some
> > other character instead of a space so that the first split will leave the
> > file or directory name intact wherein after I could substitute the space
> > back.
> 
> >   Anyone have any ideas that might help?
> 
> >   The only thing I can think of is to add a whole bunch of $file1, $file2,
> > $file3, ... $file# and then splice them back together but that would be
> > cumbersome and also create a limit on the number of spaces that could be in
> > a file name (and risk missing those above that).
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I'm missing something, but it doesn't seem like there's much of a
> problem, if you approach it in the right way.  If you do a "ls -lA", you'll
> notice that the file or directory is always the last item, on a line with a
> fixed number of items.  Why not just pull off the first eight items, using
> the space separator and take the rest of the line as the file or directory
> name?

Good advice but I'm a little surprised nobody mentioned readdir and stat.
In other words, rewrite it (without ls) like this:

        opendir(DIR, $mnt_dir) or die "Can't open $mnt_dir: $!";
        for (readdir(DIR)) {
            ($dev,$ino,$mode,$nlink,$uid,$gid,$rdev,$size,
             $atime,$mtime,$ctime,$blksize,$blocks) = stat($_);
        }
        closedir(DIR);

You get all the same information from stat that you got from "ls -l" but in a
slightly different form and spaces are handled automatically.  In addition,
you don't have the overhead of running ls in a separate process.

-- 
tim writer                                   starnix inc.
905.771.0017 ext. 225                           thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 15:43:16 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:43:16 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their
 name...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <40AF87F6.30105@rogers.com> 
Message-ID: <40B0C694.2090002@alteeve.com>

Hi Tim,

   I am trying to test this command with a mini script I wrte based on 
your suggestion but for the life of me I can't get the darn thing to 
tun. Can you see if I made an error somewhere?

=- Code
#!/usr/bin/perl
use CGI::Carp "fatalsToBrowser";
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";

print "
\n";
opendir(DIR, /home) or die "Can't open root: $!";
for (readdir(DIR))
{
	($dev, $ino, $mode, $nlink, $uid, $gid, $rdev, $size, $atime, $mtime, 
$ctime, $blksize, $blocks) = stat($_);
	print "$dev, $ino, $mode, $nlink, $uid, $gid, $rdev, $size, $atime, 
$mtime, $ctime, $blksize, $blocks\n";
}
closedir(DIR)
print "
\n";
=- End Code

it keeps resulting in:

=- Error
Software error:

syntax error at /pwp/cgi-bin/tle-bu/tmp/dirtest.cgi line 13, near "print 
" Good advice but I'm a little surprised nobody mentioned readdir and stat.
> In other words, rewrite it (without ls) like this:
> 
>         opendir(DIR, $mnt_dir) or die "Can't open $mnt_dir: $!";
>         for (readdir(DIR)) {
>             ($dev,$ino,$mode,$nlink,$uid,$gid,$rdev,$size,
>              $atime,$mtime,$ctime,$blksize,$blocks) = stat($_);
>         }
>         closedir(DIR);
> 
> You get all the same information from stat that you got from "ls -l" but in a
> slightly different form and spaces are handled automatically.  In addition,
> you don't have the overhead of running ls in a separate process.


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 16:50:05 2004
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 12:50:05 -0400
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
In-Reply-To: <20040523004427.GA5798-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFB061.3050409@sympatico.ca> <20040523004427.GA5798@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <40B0D63D.5040800@sympatico.ca>

William Park wrote:

>On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 03:56:17PM -0400, Moniz Family wrote:
>  
>
>>Peter L. Peres wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>hi, I just got a bunch of emails with a virus in them, one purportedly
>>>      
>>>
>>>from john moniz, who is on the piclist. Whoever responds to the rogers ID
>>    
>>
>>>and IP:
>>>
>>>CPE0040f45b7dd5-CM000e5c708cae.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.78.60]
>>>
>>>had better run virus checkers on their computers asap.
>>>
>>>Peter
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>I just remembered that I received something the other day that looked 
>>like it had a virus attached (readme.zip file, which contained a 
>>document.txt .exe file when I viewed the content through my RH archive 
>>preview). I just retrieved it from the trash bin and it came from a 
>>similar source ID:
>>
>>cpe0040d025c13a-cm014080005035.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com (HELO sympatico.ca) 
>>(65.50.38.217)
>>
>>It came to me from jbertoglio-Wuw85uim5zDuFKmmi/icCA at public.gmane.org
>>    
>>
>
>I got one
>
>    Received: from sympatico.ca (CPE0040f45b7dd5-CM000e5c708cae.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com [69.199.78.60])
>	    by lethe.ss.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 967986D78F
>	    for ; Fri, 21 May 2004 17:16:33 -0400 (EDT)
>    From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
>    To: tlug-route-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>
>  
>
So, is there nothing that can be done about this? I don't particularly 
feel good about my e-mail address being used to send people viruses.

John.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 17:35:49 2004
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 10:35:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: TVtime Television Viewer with Fedora CORE 2
Message-ID: <20040523173549.17614.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com>

I am writing this message on behalf of my son.
He has a TV tuner card in his PC and the TVtime Viewer worked right out of the
box except for sound.  He can't hear anything.

He has system sounds and the CD player works as well as Tux Racer sounds.

Does anyone know what the problem might be?

=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 17:50:10 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 13:50:10 -0400
Subject: TVtime Television Viewer with Fedora CORE 2
In-Reply-To: <20040523173549.17614.qmail-XbHtgyYbTkWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040523173549.17614.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040523175010.GA25609@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 10:35:49AM -0700, Mel Seder wrote:
> I am writing this message on behalf of my son.
> He has a TV tuner card in his PC and the TVtime Viewer worked right out of the
> box except for sound.  He can't hear anything.
> 
> He has system sounds and the CD player works as well as Tux Racer sounds.
> 
> Does anyone know what the problem might be?

Is there a lineout (either on the back or inside on the board) from the
tv tuner card?  If so, it has to be connected to a linein or aux in
(inside case) on the sound card, and that channel then unmuted and
volume turned up.

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 18:16:12 2004
From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:16:12 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in
 their  name...
In-Reply-To: <40B0C694.2090002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <40AF87F6.30105@rogers.com>
 
Message-ID: 

>Hi Tim,
>
>   I am trying to test this command with a mini script I wrte based on
>your suggestion but for the life of me I can't get the darn thing to
>tun. Can you see if I made an error somewhere?
>
>=- Code
>#!/usr/bin/perl
>use CGI::Carp "fatalsToBrowser";
>print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
>
>print "
\n";
>opendir(DIR, /home) or die "Can't open root: $!";
>for (readdir(DIR))
>{
>	($dev, $ino, $mode, $nlink, $uid, $gid, $rdev, $size, $atime, $mtime,
>$ctime, $blksize, $blocks) = stat($_);
>	print "$dev, $ino, $mode, $nlink, $uid, $gid, $rdev, $size, $atime,
>$mtime, $ctime, $blksize, $blocks\n";
>}
>closedir(DIR)
>print "
\n";
>=- End Code
>
>it keeps resulting in:
>
>=- Error
>Software error:
>
>syntax error at /pwp/cgi-bin/tle-bu/tmp/dirtest.cgi line 13, near "print
>"Can't find string terminator '"' anywhere before EOF at
>/pwp/cgi-bin/tle-bu/tmp/dirtest.cgi line 13.
>
>For help, please send mail to the webmaster (root-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org), giving
>this error message and the time and date of the error.
>=- End Error
>

Hmm, missing semicolon on closedir(DIR)  ?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 18:22:58 2004
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 11:22:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: TVtime Television Viewer with Fedora CORE 2
In-Reply-To: <20040523175010.GA25609-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040523175010.GA25609@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20040523182258.39611.qmail@web40713.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Lennart Sorensen  wrote:
> On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 10:35:49AM -0700, Mel Seder wrote:
> > I am writing this message on behalf of my son.
> > He has a TV tuner card in his PC and the TVtime Viewer worked right out of
> the
> > box except for sound.  He can't hear anything.
> > 
> > He has system sounds and the CD player works as well as Tux Racer sounds.
> > 
> > Does anyone know what the problem might be?
> 
> Is there a lineout (either on the back or inside on the board) from the
> tv tuner card?  If so, it has to be connected to a linein or aux in
> (inside case) on the sound card, and that channel then unmuted and
> volume turned up.
> 
> Lennart Sorensen

There is a lineout and it is connected. He is able to watch his TV tuner
running Windows.  I'll tell him to try un-muting and cranking up all the
inputs.

Thanks

=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 18:29:21 2004
From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 14:29:21 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name...
In-Reply-To: <40B0C694.2090002-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <40AF87F6.30105@rogers.com>  <40B0C694.2090002@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040523182921.GF28880@biff.bort.ca>

On Sun, May 23, 2004 at 11:43:16AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi Tim,
> 
>   I am trying to test this command with a mini script I wrte based on 
> your suggestion but for the life of me I can't get the darn thing to 
> tun. Can you see if I made an error somewhere?

I considered mentioning readdir/stat but it seemed to me you were
writing shell scripts in Perl so I decided there was no need to get
"fancy".  It looks like I was right. ;-)

> =- Code
> #!/usr/bin/perl
> use CGI::Carp "fatalsToBrowser";
> print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
> 
> print "
\n";
> opendir(DIR, /home) or die "Can't open root: $!";
Hint:          ^^^^^

> for (readdir(DIR))
> {
> 	($dev, $ino, $mode, $nlink, $uid, $gid, $rdev, $size, $atime, 
> 	$mtime, $ctime, $blksize, $blocks) = stat($_);
> 	print "$dev, $ino, $mode, $nlink, $uid, $gid, $rdev, $size, $atime, 
> $mtime, $ctime, $blksize, $blocks\n";
> }
> closedir(DIR)
Future hint:   ^

> print "
\n";
> =- End Code

When you get this to compile, please consult the readdir entry in
perlfunc.  It will explain why it only works for the current directory.

Hope this helps,

-- 
Rick Delaney
rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 21:31:09 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:31:09 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: TVtime Television Viewer with Fedora CORE 2
In-Reply-To: <20040523182258.39611.qmail-otpZgr+augCA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040523182258.39611.qmail@web40713.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 


> There is a lineout and it is connected. He is able to watch his TV tuner
> running Windows.  I'll tell him to try un-muting and cranking up all the
> inputs.

There is a sound setup thing that allows additional channels to be enabled
(mixer setup or such, I don't remember). The channel associated with that
aux input is likely disabled or not shown. If I remember correctly, for
smix, I had to edit the smix config file by hand and open some mixer
channels. RH probably has a GUI way to do this.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 21:28:42 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:28:42 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
In-Reply-To: <40B0D63D.5040800-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFB061.3050409@sympatico.ca> <20040523004427.GA5798@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <40B0D63D.5040800@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: 


On Sun, 23 May 2004, Moniz Family wrote:

> So, is there nothing that can be done about this? I don't particularly
> feel good about my e-mail address being used to send people viruses.

The fastest thing to do would be to run down the list of people you sent
email to, and who run windows, and warn them all to run an antivirus. The
cuplrit may be on the list. Known facts:

- several list members got virused emails, thus whoever got virused had
these addresses in his contact list, therefore he is likely subscribed to
tlug.
- the someone uses rogers cable access and runs windows+exchange

I know nobody who matches this description, if anyone does, do ask him to
run a virus check. I strongly suspect it's someone on the tlug list.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 21:12:34 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 00:12:34 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B01294.10209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
Message-ID: 


On Sat, 22 May 2004, James Knott wrote:

> Well, science is generally demonstratable and provable.  Faith is simply

Right. Science is provable ? With what ? With G"odel's guaranteed to be
imperfect/incomplete mathematics ? Accurately measured with Heisenberg's
uncertainty principle ?  Let's say it is more tangible than faith, in some
limited technical matters, and as long as you don't look to closely.
Trying hard != succeeding.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 21:37:23 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 17:37:23 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> 
Message-ID: <40B11993.8000700@rogers.com>

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Sat, 22 May 2004, James Knott wrote:
> 
> 
>>Well, science is generally demonstratable and provable.  Faith is simply
> 
> 
> Right. Science is provable ? With what ? With G"odel's guaranteed to be
> imperfect/incomplete mathematics ? Accurately measured with Heisenberg's
> uncertainty principle ?  Let's say it is more tangible than faith, in some
> limited technical matters, and as long as you don't look to closely.
> Trying hard != succeeding.

Science strives for accuracy, with the model improving through further 
research.  It may never be perfect, but it's continually trying to 
improve.  Faith require acceptance without questioning the "facts".
The history of human faith is littered with examples, where knowledge 
contrary to belief was suppressed, sometimes on pain of death.

One curious example, is the current pope's apology for a previous pope's 
persecution of Galileo, for claiming that the earth was not the center 
of the universe.  If one pope apologized for another, it must mean that 
one of two supposedly infallible popes goofed!

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 23 22:06:00 2004
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 18:06:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B11993.8000700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B11993.8000700@rogers.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 23 May 2004, James Knott wrote:
> ...If one pope apologized for another, it must mean that 
> one of two supposedly infallible popes goofed!

As I understand it, the pope is officially infallible only when speaking
in certain specific circumstances after preliminary formalities have been
carried out.  This is not done lightly, and has in fact been done only a
few times in the whole history of the Catholic Church. 

The rest of the time, he's just the Head Cardinal :-), and his words carry
a lot of weight but are not officially beyond question. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 02:38:34 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:38:34 -0400
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source - advice please
In-Reply-To: <40AFE410.8020208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20040524023835.EAD514347@cbbrowne.com>

> >>...I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion .
> > 
> > 
> > Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
> > consensus on where one ends and the other begins.
> 
> Religion is a delusion.  Morality is not.

The "preaching" that characters like Carl Sagan was prone to emit
concerning religious matters sounded itself pretty religious.  

He was pretty "evangelically atheist," and when people start preaching,
it sure looks religious, whether the preacher believes in God or not...
--
output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/lsf.html
"The Amiga  is proof that  if you build  a better mousetrap,  the rats
will gang up on you."  -- Bill Roberts bill.roberts-Spn/m8IUnLUAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 02:42:51 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:42:51 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To:  
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com> 
Message-ID: <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>

> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
> >
> > On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
> >
> > You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
> 
>      Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>      bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......

Well, we _know_ those were characters fabricated to entertain children,
just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Rudolph the Red-Nosed
Reindeer.

The only places where those get taken seriously is in terms of box
office sales at the movies.

In contrast, serious people have taken quite seriously the notions of
"supreme beings."
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/postgresql.html
Rules of the  Evil Overlord #128. "I will not  employ robots as agents
of  destruction  if  there  is  any  possible way  that  they  can  be
re-programmed  or if their  battery packs  are externally  mounted and
easily removable." 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 02:47:12 2004
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 22:47:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <20040524024252.5178D4347-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
  <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: 

On Sun, 23 May 2004 cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

>> On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>>>
>>> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
>>
>>      Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>>      bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
>
> Well, we _know_ those were characters fabricated to entertain children,
> just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Rudolph the Red-Nosed
> Reindeer.

     And god was invented to entertain adults as well as children; that
     doesn't address the issue of why one should consider god any more
     real than other fictional characters.

> The only places where those get taken seriously is in terms of box
> office sales at the movies.
>
> In contrast, serious people have taken quite seriously the notions of
> "supreme beings."

      Why? What makes god any different?

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 05:40:23 2004
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 01:40:23 -0400
Subject: Horde - Imp
In-Reply-To: <1085151244.16890.1166.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1085151244.16890.1166.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <002f01c44151$9f9efe10$6401a8c0@main>

> More on topic though, I used Horde/Imp a few years back and was quite
> happy with it then.  I just started using it again in a recent project
> and so far no complaints.  I've never run in to stability issues and,
> frankly, the sheer number of large scale deployments it has gives me a
> reasonable degree of confidence in it overall.  (my.utoronto.ca
webmail
> runs a customized version of Horde/Imp.)

I run Horde / IMP on a couple servers for mail, and find it hard to do
things "outside the box" easily. For example, to combat huge amounts of
spam, I set up hundreds of filters, causing Horde to crash each time I
log in. :)

Sid


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 03:40:50 2004
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Sun, 23 May 2004 23:40:50 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <20040524024252.5178D4347-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40B16EC2.4080604@rogers.com>

Serious people might have been right or wrong. That's not a suitable 
answer to a 'why' question.

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

>>On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>>>
>>>You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
>>>      
>>>
>>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
>>    
>>
>
>Well, we _know_ those were characters fabricated to entertain children,
>just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Rudolph the Red-Nosed
>Reindeer.
>
>The only places where those get taken seriously is in terms of box
>office sales at the movies.
>
>In contrast, serious people have taken quite seriously the notions of
>"supreme beings."
>  
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 10:20:32 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:20:32 -0400
Subject: My fiscal responcibility to my company ver. Open Source
 - advice please
In-Reply-To: <20040524023835.EAD514347-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> <20040524023835.EAD514347@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40B1CC70.1020101@rogers.com>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>>>>...I hope neither of you are equating morality to religion .
>>>
>>>
>>>Seen from a distance, the two can be hard to tell apart.  Nor is there
>>>consensus on where one ends and the other begins.
>>
>>Religion is a delusion.  Morality is not.
> 
> 
> The "preaching" that characters like Carl Sagan was prone to emit
> concerning religious matters sounded itself pretty religious.  
> 
> He was pretty "evangelically atheist," and when people start preaching,
> it sure looks religious, whether the preacher believes in God or not...

I don't recall him "preaching".  However, I do recall him examining some 
of the claims and showing how they're wrong.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 10:22:57 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 06:22:57 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <20040524024252.5178D4347-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40B1CD01.7020205@rogers.com>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>>On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
>>>
>>>You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
>>
>>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
>>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
> 
> 
> Well, we _know_ those were characters fabricated to entertain children,
> just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Rudolph the Red-Nosed
> Reindeer.
> 
> The only places where those get taken seriously is in terms of box
> office sales at the movies.
> 
> In contrast, serious people have taken quite seriously the notions of
> "supreme beings."

George W. Bush being one of them.

Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed 
all their lives with such things.  At one time, serious people believed 
that the world was flat.  Just believing something doesn't make it so.


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 13:00:54 2004
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 09:00:54 -0400
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
	<40AFB061.3050409@sympatico.ca>
	<20040523004427.GA5798@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<40B0D63D.5040800@sympatico.ca>
	
Message-ID: <20040524090054.5d9d729e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 24 May 2004 00:28:42 +0300 (IDDT)
Peter L. Peres disseminated the following:

> exchange

I have that. It's the coaster on which my coffee mug is sitting right now.

-- 
JoeHill RLU #282046 /  www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president
would have been hanged." -- Noam Chomsky
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 14:41:41 2004
From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 10:41:41 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B1CD01.7020205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: 
	 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>
	 
	 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
	 
	 <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
	 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
	 
	 <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>  <40B1CD01.7020205@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1085409700.3540.4.camel@lnx2.bobach.org>

>"Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed
all their lives with such things."<

Judging you by your own standards:

Many people have such *unbeliefs*, simply because they've been
brainwashed all their lives with such things.

J. Schaap

On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 06:22, James Knott wrote:
> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> >>On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
> >>>
> >>>You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
> >>
> >>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
> >>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
> > 
> > 
> > Well, we _know_ those were characters fabricated to entertain children,
> > just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Rudolph the Red-Nosed
> > Reindeer.
> > 
> > The only places where those get taken seriously is in terms of box
> > office sales at the movies.
> > 
> > In contrast, serious people have taken quite seriously the notions of
> > "supreme beings."
> 
> George W. Bush being one of them.
> 
> Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed 
> all their lives with such things.  At one time, serious people believed 
> that the world was flat.  Just believing something doesn't make it so.
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From robert-yzlPDbdf3LosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 15:17:27 2004
From: robert-yzlPDbdf3LosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Robert McDonald)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 11:17:27 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com> <40B16EC2.4080604@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <001901c441a2$39f12970$0b01a8c0@2k>

Don't allow your Dogma to get run over by somebody's Karma

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Legrady" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Officially OT -> Re: [TLUG]: My fiscal responcibility...


> Serious people might have been right or wrong. That's not a suitable 
> answer to a 'why' question.
> 
> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> >>On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
> >>>
> >>>You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
> >>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >Well, we _know_ those were characters fabricated to entertain children,
> >just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Rudolph the Red-Nosed
> >Reindeer.
> >
> >The only places where those get taken seriously is in terms of box
> >office sales at the movies.
> >
> >In contrast, serious people have taken quite seriously the notions of
> >"supreme beings."
> >  
> >
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
----------------------------------------
My Inbox is protected by SPAMfighter
1865 spam mails have been blocked so far.
Download free www.spamfighter.com today!
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 16:54:43 2004
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 24 May 2004 12:54:43 -0400
Subject: 'ls' question, splitting and files with spaces in their name...
In-Reply-To: <20040523182921.GF28880-Aco4KUUxZ1MCzWx7n4ubxQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AF5A24.4040808@alteeve.com> <40AF87F6.30105@rogers.com>
	 <40B0C694.2090002@alteeve.com>
	<20040523182921.GF28880@biff.bort.ca>
Message-ID: 

Rick Delaney  writes:

> When you get this to compile, please consult the readdir entry in
> perlfunc.  It will explain why it only works for the current directory.

That's a bit misleading.  readdir works on any directory.  However, the
filenames returned are relative to that directory so you should either chdir
there first or prepend the directory name as necessary.  So, in the snippet I
wrote, this:

     ($dev, ....) = stat($_);

should have been:

     ($dev, ....) = stat("$dir/$_");

Alternatively, the loop should have been written:

    chdir($dir) or die "Can't chdir to $dir: $!";
    opendir(DIR, '.') or die "Can't open $dir: $!";
    for (readdir(DIR)) {
        ($dev, ....) = stat($_);
    }
    closedir(DIR);

If you do this, you may want to wrap the whole thing in:

    use Cwd;
    my $saved_dir = cwd();
    # above loop
    chdir($saved_dir);

-- 
tim writer                                   starnix inc.
905.771.0017 ext. 225                           thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 17:25:52 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 13:25:52 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <1085409700.3540.4.camel-SHaz7F0tmiAARPRfHeTXCg@public.gmane.org>
References: 	 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>	 	 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>	 	 <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>	 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>	 	 <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>  <40B1CD01.7020205@rogers.com> <1085409700.3540.4.camel@lnx2.bobach.org>
Message-ID: <40B23020.1070800@rogers.com>

J. Schaap wrote:
>>"Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed
> 
> all their lives with such things."<
> 
> Judging you by your own standards:
> 
> Many people have such *unbeliefs*, simply because they've been
> brainwashed all their lives with such things.
> 

OK, where are the proofs that the Bible is not simply a collection of 
fiction?  With science, the goal is to continually refine the knowledge, 
not simply accept "that's the way it is", unlike religion, where you're 
supposed to accept, without question.

One of the principal causes of the dark ages, was the imposition of 
ignorance, by the church.  Ever wonder why only the Christian world was 
afflicted by that great loss of knowledge?  Ever wonder why the Arab 
world flourished back in those days, only to similarly flounder, when 
their beliefs became dominant?  A few hundred years ago, it was accepted 
knowledge that the world was flat, even though others had earlier proven 
otherwise.  The teachings of the church were that the earth was the 
center of the universe.  Those falacies and others have fallen, simply 
because people such as Galeleo, Coperinicus and others were willing to 
stand up to what religion taught as being correct.

Then we get to religious frauds, such as the Shroud of Turin, which for 
centuries was held as an article of faith, by the Catholic church, only 
to be shown to be the fraud that it was, when science was allowed to be 
applied.  The history of religion is full of such deception.  Perhaps 
that's because it's entire foundation is fraudulent.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 18:18:55 2004
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:18:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B23020.1070800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B23020.1070800@rogers.com>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 May 2004, James Knott wrote:
> ...A few hundred years ago, it was accepted 
> knowledge that the world was flat, even though others had earlier proven 
> otherwise...

Uh, no, actually, this is a myth.  The Church accepted the roundness of
the Earth as soon as it was well proven, which happened many centuries
earlier.  (Columbus's argument was over the *size* of the Earth rather
than its shape... and Columbus was wrong and his critics were right.
No way could he sail west to Asia, it was much too far for the nautical
technology of the day.  He and all his men would have most certainly have
died if there hadn't been an unsuspected continent in the way.)

> The teachings of the church were that the earth was the 
> center of the universe.  Those falacies and others have fallen, simply 
> because people such as Galeleo, Coperinicus and others were willing to 
> stand up to what religion taught as being correct.

The Church was quite willing to entertain the suggestion that it might be
wrong about such things, so long as it was phrased diplomatically and not
stated as fact unless accompanied by convincing evidence.  The foreword to
Copernicus's book includes a laudatory letter from a cardinal... and not
just any cardinal, but the right-hand man of three successive popes.  Even
Galileo's problems came much more from his total lack of tact and some
unfavorable politics than from his theories.  (The popular version of
Galileo's experiences comes largely from Brecht's play, which is about as
historically accurate as a John Wayne western.  The real history is much
more complicated and rather less one-sided.)

> Then we get to religious frauds, such as the Shroud of Turin, which for 
> centuries was held as an article of faith, by the Catholic church, only 
> to be shown to be the fraud that it was, when science was allowed...

If memory serves, the Church as a whole never took the position that the
Shroud *was* authentic, only that it *might* be, and hence caution was
appropriate and tests involving destruction of substantial parts of the
Shroud could not be allowed.  When it became possible to do carbon-dating
on quite small samples, they were quite cooperative and most interested in
the results. 

(Just to clarify:  I'm not Catholic and don't have a terribly high opinion
of the Church or its past actions -- including persecution of some of my
ancestors -- but they should be blamed for things they did do, not things
they didn't do.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 19:01:43 2004
From: jschaap-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (J. Schaap)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:01:43 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B23020.1070800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: 
	 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>
	 
	 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
	 
	 <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
	 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
	 
	 <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>  <40B1CD01.7020205@rogers.com>
	 <1085409700.3540.4.camel@lnx2.bobach.org>  <40B23020.1070800@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1085425303.6989.35.camel@lnx2.bobach.org>

On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 13:25, James Knott wrote:
> J. Schaap wrote:
> >>"Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed
> > 
> > all their lives with such things."<
> > 
> > Judging you by your own standards:
> > 
> > Many people have such *unbeliefs*, simply because they've been
> > brainwashed all their lives with such things.
> > 
> 
> OK, where are the proofs that the Bible is not simply a collection of 
> fiction?  With science, the goal is to continually refine the knowledge, 
> not simply accept "that's the way it is", unlike religion, where you're 
> supposed to accept, without question.
> 
The Old Testament as I see it is a collections of books. One of these
collections deals with a code of ethics (Law). To teach moral standards
to the nation of Israel. 
Can't really call that fiction.
My religion doesn't allow me to simply accept "that's the way it is"
without question.

> One of the principal causes of the dark ages, was the imposition of 
> ignorance, by the church.  Ever wonder why only the Christian world was 
> afflicted by that great loss of knowledge?  Ever wonder why the Arab 
> world flourished back in those days, only to similarly flounder, when 
> their beliefs became dominant?  A few hundred years ago, it was accepted 
> knowledge that the world was flat, even though others had earlier proven 
> otherwise.  The teachings of the church were that the earth was the 
> center of the universe.  Those falacies and others have fallen, simply 
> because people such as Galeleo, Coperinicus and others were willing to 
> stand up to what religion taught as being correct.
There is such a thing as traditions. The Jewish people according,
to the New Testament had a problem with that. They had some weird ideas. 
That also applies to the people in the past and also in this present time.
These things have nothing to with religion. 
If the so called "church" would have studied the scriptures they would
come to the conclusion that the earth is a 'sphere' and hangs on
nothing. (Book of Job, considered to be thousands of years old).
Christopher Columbus quoted Isaiah 40:21-22 to prove that the world was
round: 

"Do you not know? 
Have you not heard?
Has it not been told you from the beginning?
Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
He sits enthroned above the 'circle' of the earth, and its people are
like grasshoppers."

the word 'circle' here in Hebrew is 'chuwg' which 'sphere'

The plague in medieval Europe, it has been said, could have been avoided
if people would have read and understand the scriptures.
 
> Then we get to religious frauds, such as the Shroud of Turin, which for 
> centuries was held as an article of faith, by the Catholic church, only 
> to be shown to be the fraud that it was, when science was allowed to be 
> applied.  The history of religion is full of such deception.  Perhaps 
> that's because it's entire foundation is fraudulent.
> 
I would call it the Roman Catholic Church. Catholic church has a
different meaning to me.
There are lots of these religious frauds around.
But then are scientific frauds and history of science is full of
deception. 
It is up to us to make a discerned judgement in either religion or
science. And that is not an easy task.

> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 19:43:11 2004
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 15:43:11 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B23020.1070800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <1085409700.3540.4.camel@lnx2.bobach.org> <40B23020.1070800@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20040524193954.9775517C445@smtp.istop.com>

James Knott:

> J. Schaap wrote:
> >>"Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed
> >
> > all their lives with such things."<
> >
> > Judging you by your own standards:
> >
> > Many people have such *unbeliefs*, simply because they've been
> > brainwashed all their lives with such things.
>
> OK, where are the proofs that the Bible is not simply a collection of
> fiction?  With science, the goal is to continually refine the knowledge,
> not simply accept "that's the way it is", unlike religion, where you're
> supposed to accept, without question.

What do you mean by fiction? The Bible is not a fiction in at least that 
sense that it has been written by people. As such it does reflect their 
believes, observations, ideas, etc. There is of course a question to which 
extend some facts described in the Bible are based on real events.

And it is a deep misundarstanding to think that religion imposed some 
believes without giving the people oportunity to question them. In some 
religions yes, but to certain extend only. In Christianity perhaps also, in 
the history, that happened often. But at the same time Christianity has been 
given impetus to the development of various sciences. 

> One of the principal causes of the dark ages, was the imposition of
> ignorance, by the church. 

Do not quite agree. Saint Thomas, St Augustinus, and many, many others are 
counterexamples. Or take Copernicus (know a bit more about him because he was
Polish, like me). How many of you on this list knows that Copernicus' primary 
"job" was to work for Church? He held highest positions in the Church 
hierarchy through his entire adult life (besides, it was his uncle, a bishop, 
who took care of his education). At the same time he wrote economical 
treaties, studied stars movement, organized military defence of several 
cities against Teutonics, held the title of medical doctor, wrote poetry, 
traveled extensively, organized university education, and prepared first maps 
of the delta of Vistula. Have however a look to this picture, unfortunately 
not broadly published neither in the past in communist Poland nor in, sorry 
to say this, mostly anti-religious media in the West):

	http://www.iyp.org/zBych/iPolonia/kopernik-en.html

> Ever wonder why only the Christian world was
> afflicted by that great loss of knowledge?  Ever wonder why the Arab
> world flourished back in those days

This is probably a myth rather. The Arab world did contribute to the 
development of sciences significantly but I would not exagarate the 
importance of that contribution.

> The teachings of the church were that the earth was the
> center of the universe.  

Others commented on this already.

> Those falacies and others have fallen, simply
> because people such as Galeleo, Coperinicus and others were willing to
> stand up to what religion taught as being correct.

Neither Galileo nor Copernicus acted against the religion. 

> Then we get to religious frauds, such as the Shroud of Turin, which for
> centuries was held as an article of faith, by the Catholic church, only
> to be shown to be the fraud that it was, 

Well, please give references. I did read that contrary, there is no 
conclusive proove that it was a fraud. I am personally not convinced that it 
was not a fraud. But I see neither a strong reason to think that it was.

> The history of religion is full of such deception.  Perhaps
> that's because it's entire foundation is fraudulent.

Entire human history has been falsified many times. Someone, for instance, 
mentioned in this subject Inquisiton. But did that person thought about his 
source of knowledge about Inquisiton? Was he aware that history is being 
falsified even now? In the era when ideas are shaped by Hollywood and mass 
media it is not difficult to achieve a deep manipulation of history. How many 
of you knows that Inquisition was the first institution in Christian 
civilization that gaved the suspected the right to defend himself? And the 
numbers of victims of Inquisition is being often greatly exagarated. And, 
just to finish, how many of you knows the it was the protestant world, not 
catholic, where most victims occured? But Catholics rather are blamed.

zb.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 22:12:27 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 18:12:27 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <1085425303.6989.35.camel-SHaz7F0tmiAARPRfHeTXCg@public.gmane.org>
References: 	 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>	 	 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>	 	 <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>	 <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>	 	 <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com>  <40B1CD01.7020205@rogers.com>	 <1085409700.3540.4.camel@lnx2.bobach.org>  <40B23020.1070800@rogers.com> <1085425303.6989.35.camel@lnx2.bobach.org>
Message-ID: <40B2734B.6010808@rogers.com>

J. Schaap wrote:
> On Mon, 2004-05-24 at 13:25, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>J. Schaap wrote:
>>
>>>>"Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed
>>>
>>>all their lives with such things."<
>>>
>>>Judging you by your own standards:
>>>
>>>Many people have such *unbeliefs*, simply because they've been
>>>brainwashed all their lives with such things.
>>>
>>
>>OK, where are the proofs that the Bible is not simply a collection of 
>>fiction?  With science, the goal is to continually refine the knowledge, 
>>not simply accept "that's the way it is", unlike religion, where you're 
>>supposed to accept, without question.
>>
> 
> The Old Testament as I see it is a collections of books. One of these
> collections deals with a code of ethics (Law). To teach moral standards
> to the nation of Israel. 
> Can't really call that fiction.
> My religion doesn't allow me to simply accept "that's the way it is"
> without question.

No doubt it is a collection of stories.  And I have never said that 
there wasn't some good in it.  There is, along with some bad.  It's the 
concept of some supreme being that absolute nonsense.  God was created 
by man, not the other way around.

> 
>>One of the principal causes of the dark ages, was the imposition of 
>>ignorance, by the church.  Ever wonder why only the Christian world was 
>>afflicted by that great loss of knowledge?  Ever wonder why the Arab 
>>world flourished back in those days, only to similarly flounder, when 
>>their beliefs became dominant?  A few hundred years ago, it was accepted 
>>knowledge that the world was flat, even though others had earlier proven 
>>otherwise.  The teachings of the church were that the earth was the 
>>center of the universe.  Those falacies and others have fallen, simply 
>>because people such as Galeleo, Coperinicus and others were willing to 
>>stand up to what religion taught as being correct.
> 
> There is such a thing as traditions. The Jewish people according,
> to the New Testament had a problem with that. They had some weird ideas. 
> That also applies to the people in the past and also in this present time.
> These things have nothing to with religion. 
> If the so called "church" would have studied the scriptures they would
> come to the conclusion that the earth is a 'sphere' and hangs on
> nothing. (Book of Job, considered to be thousands of years old).
> Christopher Columbus quoted Isaiah 40:21-22 to prove that the world was
> round: 
> 
> "Do you not know? 
> Have you not heard?
> Has it not been told you from the beginning?
> Have you not understood since the earth was founded?
> He sits enthroned above the 'circle' of the earth, and its people are
> like grasshoppers."

As I recall, Columbus was one of the ones who challanged the common 
"knowledge".

> 
> the word 'circle' here in Hebrew is 'chuwg' which 'sphere'
> 
> The plague in medieval Europe, it has been said, could have been avoided
> if people would have read and understand the scriptures.
>  

And how would that have helped?  The religious leaders of the time sure 
didn't do much to help.

> 
>>Then we get to religious frauds, such as the Shroud of Turin, which for 
>>centuries was held as an article of faith, by the Catholic church, only 
>>to be shown to be the fraud that it was, when science was allowed to be 
>>applied.  The history of religion is full of such deception.  Perhaps 
>>that's because it's entire foundation is fraudulent.
>>
> 
> I would call it the Roman Catholic Church. Catholic church has a
> different meaning to me.
> There are lots of these religious frauds around.
> But then are scientific frauds and history of science is full of
> deception. 
> It is up to us to make a discerned judgement in either religion or
> science. And that is not an easy task.

While the Catholic church is certainly full of such frauds, it's not the 
only religious group that presents such "facts".  You seem to be a 
follower of the Jewish faith.  What do you have that you claim to be 
fact without proof?  Why do you claim it's such?  How do you know, for 
example, that the Torah is not the Jewish equivalent of the shroud? 
What do you have, that establishes it, without doubt, to be the five 
books of Moses?  Or that there was even such a person?  Or is it just a 
collection of stories?  Are you one of those who claim that yours is the 
only "true" belief?

As for science, yes there have been errors and frauds over the years. 
But the whole principle of science, is that it's self correcting. 
Sooner or later those errors or frauds will be found and corrected, as 
has happened many times in the past and will likely continue in the future.

How do you make your judgements about religious "facts"?

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 23:13:29 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:13:29 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B2734B.6010808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <1085425303.6989.35.camel@lnx2.bobach.org> <40B2734B.6010808@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200405241913.29651.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Monday 24 May 2004 18:12, James Knott wrote:

> concept of some supreme being that absolute nonsense. ?God was created
> by man, not the other way around.

Creation has not been proven, nor has the theory of evolution.  It's a debate 
that neither side is likely to prove in our lifetimes despite pontification 
from both sides.  It's a debate that may never be settled since both sides 
will continue to put forward fantastic hypothesis to explain the latest 
wrinkles in their stories.

Don't get me wrong, it is a worthwhile debate, just not worthwhile on a Linux 
list ...

-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 23:58:52 2004
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:58:52 -0400
Subject: attn: john moniz: may have virus
In-Reply-To: <40B0D63D.5040800-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: 
	<40AFB061.3050409@sympatico.ca>
	<20040523004427.GA5798@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<40B0D63D.5040800@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20040524195852.1c1b614c.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Sun, 23 May 2004 12:50:05 -0400
Moniz Family  wrote:


> So, is there nothing that can be done about this? I don't particularly 
> feel good about my e-mail address being used to send people viruses.

   I can beat that.  I received an email at home from me at work that contained the virus.  I ran the virus checker on my Windows XP machine at work and it came up clean.  Since I have received emails from from other members of the ski club I am in, I am assuming that the culprit is in the ski club.

   I have access to the club's blog site, and I am strongly tempted to post something asking people either to run virus check, or switch to a virus resistant OS.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 24 23:53:49 2004
From: william.ohiggins-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (William O'Higgins)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 19:53:49 -0400
Subject: Good command in mutt
Message-ID: <20040524235349.GA2502@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>

I just found a use for Ctrl-D in mutt - it deletes an entire thread,
digressions, off-topic meanderings and all sorts of off-topic stuff at
once.  Very useful.
-- 

yours,

William

-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
URL: 

From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 00:14:41 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 20:14:41 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <20040524193954.9775517C445-1WX2iAnhvdWVv0GNigkn8w@public.gmane.org>
References:  <1085409700.3540.4.camel@lnx2.bobach.org> <40B23020.1070800@rogers.com> <20040524193954.9775517C445@smtp.istop.com>
Message-ID: <40B28FF1.9000603@rogers.com>

Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
> James Knott:
> 
> 
>>J. Schaap wrote:
>>
>>>>"Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed
>>>
>>>all their lives with such things."<
>>>
>>>Judging you by your own standards:
>>>
>>>Many people have such *unbeliefs*, simply because they've been
>>>brainwashed all their lives with such things.
>>
>>OK, where are the proofs that the Bible is not simply a collection of
>>fiction?  With science, the goal is to continually refine the knowledge,
>>not simply accept "that's the way it is", unlike religion, where you're
>>supposed to accept, without question.
> 
> 
> What do you mean by fiction? The Bible is not a fiction in at least that 
> sense that it has been written by people. As such it does reflect their 
> believes, observations, ideas, etc. There is of course a question to which 
> extend some facts described in the Bible are based on real events.
> 
> And it is a deep misundarstanding to think that religion imposed some 
> believes without giving the people oportunity to question them. In some 
> religions yes, but to certain extend only. In Christianity perhaps also, in 
> the history, that happened often. But at the same time Christianity has been 
> given impetus to the development of various sciences. 

The fiction refers to those who take the bible as hard fact, when it's 
just a collection of stories.  There are some good metaphors to be sure, 
but it is by no means a historical account.  You can include in the 
fiction catagory any gods, angels etc.  Why is it that the Christian 
world looks on other beliefs as pagan or myth?  Why weren't the Roman 
gods every bit as real as the current one?

Incidentally, in MacLeans magizine (IIRC) Dec 2002 issue, there was an 
article about how the bible is not only not supported by history and 
archeology, but generally contradicted by it.

You might also want to read Tom Harpur's column in the Star last week, 
where he's showing that the bible texts cannot be taken as hard fact, 
but only as example.

> 
> 
>>One of the principal causes of the dark ages, was the imposition of
>>ignorance, by the church. 
> 
> 
> Do not quite agree. Saint Thomas, St Augustinus, and many, many others are 
> counterexamples. Or take Copernicus (know a bit more about him because he was
> Polish, like me). How many of you on this list knows that Copernicus' primary 
> "job" was to work for Church? He held highest positions in the Church 
> hierarchy through his entire adult life (besides, it was his uncle, a bishop, 
> who took care of his education). At the same time he wrote economical 
> treaties, studied stars movement, organized military defence of several 
> cities against Teutonics, held the title of medical doctor, wrote poetry, 
> traveled extensively, organized university education, and prepared first maps 
> of the delta of Vistula. Have however a look to this picture, unfortunately 
> not broadly published neither in the past in communist Poland nor in, sorry 
> to say this, mostly anti-religious media in the West):

One thing you appear to be forgetting, was that in those ages, only the 
nobility and clergy could get an education.  Therefore, if you had an 
education, you were in one way or another connected to the church.

> 
> 	http://www.iyp.org/zBych/iPolonia/kopernik-en.html
> 
> 
>>Ever wonder why only the Christian world was
>>afflicted by that great loss of knowledge?  Ever wonder why the Arab
>>world flourished back in those days
> 
> 
> This is probably a myth rather. The Arab world did contribute to the 
> development of sciences significantly but I would not exagarate the 
> importance of that contribution.
> 
> 
>>The teachings of the church were that the earth was the
>>center of the universe.  
> 
> 
> Others commented on this already.
> 
> 
>>Those falacies and others have fallen, simply
>>because people such as Galeleo, Coperinicus and others were willing to
>>stand up to what religion taught as being correct.
> 
> 
> Neither Galileo nor Copernicus acted against the religion. 

I am aware of that.  Their "crime" was to try to prove that the world 
was not the center of the universe and that it in fact revolved around 
the sun.  Like many others, including Einstein, they found their faith 
in conflict with the reality they observed.

> 
> 
>>Then we get to religious frauds, such as the Shroud of Turin, which for
>>centuries was held as an article of faith, by the Catholic church, only
>>to be shown to be the fraud that it was, 
> 
> 
> Well, please give references. I did read that contrary, there is no 
> conclusive proove that it was a fraud. I am personally not convinced that it 
> was not a fraud. But I see neither a strong reason to think that it was.

What did you read to the contrary?  I read about the radio carbon dating 
along with the fact that it has no provenance, prior to when it was 
"discovered" in (IIRC) the 12th century, a period that curiously matches 
the radio carbon date and was also an age known for fraudulent relics. 
I am also aware of the claims that it was supposedly "pollen" from that 
time that was being dated, a claim that's an insult to those who 
actually ran the tests.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 03:00:58 2004
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:00:58 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> 
Message-ID: <20040525030058.GD28870@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 12:12:34AM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 22 May 2004, James Knott wrote:
> 
> > Well, science is generally demonstratable and provable.  Faith is simply
> 
> Right. Science is provable ? With what ? With G"odel's guaranteed to be
> imperfect/incomplete mathematics ? Accurately measured with Heisenberg's
> uncertainty principle ?  Let's say it is more tangible than faith, in some
> limited technical matters, and as long as you don't look to closely.
> Trying hard != succeeding.

There are known limits on science and the degree to which
it can be complete and/or perfectly accurate.  That does
not make the quest to explain, or to test the quality of
an explanation pointless.

As an analogy:

    With sophistry and hair-splitting, you can show
    that almost any statement is not fully correct.
    That neither shows that all statements are false,
    nor does it mean that there is no point in trying to
    tell the truth.

You can accept anything you wish on faith, but others
can equally accept contradictory concepts on faith, and
there is no further resolution unless one of you abondons
his faith.  If you accept something because it semms
to provide useful explanations, that leaves you free to
accept an alternate idea when it is shown to provide better
explanations.  It gives people with differing viewpoints
a way of searching for a resolution other than simply
proclaiming their varying faiths at an ever louder volume.

-- 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 02:52:56 2004
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 22:52:56 -0400
Subject: sex & foreplay
Message-ID: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net>

First the sex then the foreplay. That way I won't waste your time if 
you're not interested. ; )

The Sex:

I can't configure my linux boxes to record musical instruments.

The Foreplay:

I want to record music in linux. I'm thinking of Audactiy because it's 
easy to get and looks like what I want ? a multitrack recorder.

I have two pretty good systems:

Compaq Deskpro EN
384 MB RAM
Sound onboard: Intel 18x0 82801BA/BAM AC'97 Audio (rev 01)
Sound card: Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 EMU10k1 (rev 0a)
NIC and 56K external modem

custom Duron 800
256 MB RAM
Sound: Creative Media CM 8738
Video: ATI Xpert 98 8 MB AGP
NIC and 56K external modem

I also have an external backpack CD-RW which I could use with either 
machine (not that I've figured that out yet).

My instruments, cables, PC, soundcards and the stereo system that the PC 
connects to for playback all work fine. I have recorded music under 
Windows 98 so the hardware is all OK.

I've been running a business with applications running on linux for a 
few months now ? spreadsheet, word processor, printing, posters, 
business cards, Internet and email. Multitrack sound recording is my 
final frontier.

Here are some of the things I have done, resources I have, etc...

- I had a debian guru from the list install beta sarge on the P733. As 
soon as I got the PC back to Timmins and booted it, I got the error, 
?artsd - sound server fatal error - cpu overloaded? and have not been 
able to record with the card. I can't play CDs either. I installed (even 
bought) Vmware so that I could test the card in W98. Little did I know 
that the VMware W98 vm can't use a real driver ? it picks sound up (if 
it's working) from linux via VMware Tools ? in short, if I'm right, the 
Vmware quest will pick up sound only if it's working on the host. But I 
don't want to get sidetracked with VMware issues. I want to get sound 
working under linux.

- I have a dial-up connection to the Internet so I can download 
applications but not OSs. If someone out there inspires me to work with 
a particular distribution I'll get it from Cheapbytes or wherever.

- At one point I had a linux/W98 dual-boot. However I found myself 
spending too much time in W98 and too little in linux. Everytime I 
didn't know how to do something I would just boot to W98. I don't think 
that would happen now as I can do all (but multitrack recording and CD 
burning) in linux now. So, if a dual-boot scenario will serve me well 
for a while I may try that while I'm learning how to configure sound in 
linux.

It seems to me that the best thing to do would be to do a dual-boot 
W98/linux (whatever tluggers talk me into) installation. Then I could 
carve the hdb drive into two to back up song projects in W98 and linux. 
The two benefits of this scenario are, 1. I would have access to 
information about hardware (including that it is connected and working) 
from W98, and, 2. I could start recording songs in W98 (on ProTools 
Free) while I work away at configuring sound in linux. So, all week 
linux would be up for business and sound configuration, and when the 
weekend comes I boot to W98 and get recording (until Windows is finally 
out of my life) ? that kind of thing.

So, the first question I have is, which distribution? The second is, 
which PC I should use for this? It's been suggested that the P733 will 
be faster than the Duron 800. And I do recall problems with the Duron 
hanging. I haven't had that problem of late but then I have not been 
using it much. My only problem with using the P733 is that it has an 
onboard card *and* a sound card. So, I don't know which sound card is 
the ?active? one (if that is aconcept that applies) at any given time. I 
want to be able to leave my line, mic and speakers cables attached to 
one card (the SBL! 5.1) and know that that is the card that will record 
and play.

Of course, this all begs the question, why not just use W98? Well, I 
don't want to. I hate the idea of using MS products even if I'm not 
paying for them. Multitrack recording and CD burning) is the only thing 
between me and a Microsoft-free life.

Don't be shy to suggest things that cost money. If buying a Mandrake 
boxed set with support is the answer then I'll do it.

I'm not looking for the distribution I'm going to grow old with, just 
one that a redhat, and soon-to-be-former Windows, user would be able to 
learn with modest but consistent effort over the next five weeks (I want 
to be multitrack-recording in earnest by the summer) and have a chance 
of having Audacity (or another multitrack recording application) come up 
and record instruments through the Mic and Line ports no my soundcard.

Thank you. This is a long email to read.

Sincerely,

Chris Aitken


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 03:21:45 2004
From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:21:45 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>
Message-ID: <20040525032145.GE28870@lupus.perlwolf.com>

On Sat, May 22, 2004 at 11:02:22PM -0400, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
> On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
> >Well, science is generally demonstratable and provable.  Faith is 
> >simply what some people believe, with little or no basis in reality.
> >
> >If I make a claim in science, I have to provide a complete description 
> >of the process taken to arrive at a conclusion and it must be 
> >repeatable.  With faith, there is little to substantiate the claims.
> 
> You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)

The scientific claim must be cast in terminology that
permits tests that will either prove or disprove the claim.
The tests that a claim passes, the greater the scope and
credence that are given to the theory.

Define God in a way that can be tested, and your theory
can be proved or disproved.  Define God in a way that
is defined solely by belief and distant unverifiable
statement, and you do not have a theory, but a myth.
That myth may be true - but your definition provides no
assistance in determining whether that is the case.

Often some of the most useful scientific theorems are
ones that are wrong, but which suggest such useful areas
of exploration in their predictions that the results that
disprove the theorem are so astounding that our view is
drastically changed.

-- 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 03:13:36 2004
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:13:36 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <20040525030058.GD28870-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
  <20040525030058.GD28870@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: 

Hitler loves off-topic threads about religion and science.

There, this thread is now officially dead. ;)

I believe that those interested in continuing this discussion have each
others' addresses, and can take the discussion offline.

Alternatively, the topic should at least return to a debate about the
religious, ethical, moral, political, social, economical, and/or
scientific views regarding (specifically) GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc.

-Jing
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 03:52:14 2004
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 23:52:14 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: 
References:  <20040525030058.GD28870@lupus.perlwolf.com> 
Message-ID: <20040525034844.3CD5E17C473@smtp.istop.com>

On Monday 24 May 2004 23:13, you wrote:
> Hitler loves off-topic threads about religion and science.

Fools love them, too.

zb.

> There, this thread is now officially dead. ;)
>
> I believe that those interested in continuing this discussion have each
> others' addresses, and can take the discussion offline.
>
> Alternatively, the topic should at least return to a debate about the
> religious, ethical, moral, political, social, economical, and/or
> scientific views regarding (specifically) GPL, LGPL, BSD, etc.
>
> -Jing
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 04:23:17 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:23:17 -0400
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <40B1CD01.7020205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
References:  <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com>  <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com> <9C6917B0-AC65-11D8-83AA-000393CCFB66@foolswisdom.com>  <20040524024252.5178D4347@cbbrowne.com> <40B1CD01.7020205@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20040525042318.AED6E3FED@cbbrowne.com>

> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> >>On Sat, 22 May 2004, Lloyd Budd wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>On 22-May-04, at 22:55, James Knott wrote:
> >>>
> >>>You say God it is just fiction .  Prove it ;-)
> >>
> >>     Why should one believe in god any more than the monster under the
> >>     bed? Or the tooth fairy? ......
> > 
> > 
> > Well, we _know_ those were characters fabricated to entertain children,
> > just like Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Rudolph the Red-Nosed
> > Reindeer.
> > 
> > The only places where those get taken seriously is in terms of box
> > office sales at the movies.
> > 
> > In contrast, serious people have taken quite seriously the notions of
> > "supreme beings."
> 
> George W. Bush being one of them.
> 
> Mnay people have such beliefs, simply because they've been brainwashed 
> all their lives with such things.  At one time, serious people believed 
> that the world was flat.  Just believing something doesn't make it so.

Rather than picking people for how readily they may be chosen as
"punching bags" for ridicule, how about we instead go for prominent
individuals in actually relevant subject areas?

This is a list on discussion of matters related to computing, so we
might therefore look to prominent authorities in Computer Science.
Perhaps, say, the Professor Emiterius of the Art of Computer
Programming.  

Furthermore, he has long been a consistent supporter of free software,
between:
  a) Having written TeX, an extremely conspicuous piece of high
     quality free software;
  b) Being a regular, substantial financial supporter of the FSF.

Donald Knuth is, by all accounts, a relatively thoughtful individual.
Despite this, he has apparently been inspired to find experts in font
design and typography to generate something so "unthoughtfully
superstitious" as his book 3:16.

--
(format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "cbbrowne.com")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html
Philosophy is a game with objectives and no rules.
Mathematics is a game with rules and no objectives. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 04:40:50 2004
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 00:40:50 -0400
Subject: linux mirror at utoronto.ca
In-Reply-To: <200405221815.38317.nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405221815.38317.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <200405250040.50937.marc@lijour.net>


Their Mandrake version is far from being up to date ;)



Le May 22, 2004 06:15 pm, Fred Nastos a ?crit :
> This might be common knowledge to people here, but
> just in case, there are mirrors of some popular linux
> distributions (debian, fedora, mandrake, slackware,
> suse) available at ftp://ftp.utoronto.ca/mirror/linux/.
>
> As far as I can tell, this site isn't listed as an official mirror
> on the distribution download pages.
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 06:11:54 2004
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:11:54 +1000
Subject: sex & foreplay
In-Reply-To: <40B2B508.3060604-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <40B2E3AA.2030007@dingodave.cjb.net>

Chris Aitken wrote:

> The Foreplay:
>
> I want to record music in linux. I'm thinking of Audactiy because it's 
> easy to get and looks like what I want ? a multitrack recorder.
>
You have got to check out http://www.agnula.org/index2_html

I found it a few nights ago when I couldn't sleep and had the urge to 
get back into Music. (Life here in Australia requires me to "branch" out) ;)

It's a Linux distro just for Music sequencing, recording etc. There are 
two flavours, a RedHat one (for you) and Debian one (for me :) ) I'm a 
huge Debian fan, so this is what I'll be testing out. It will allow me 
to use apt-get to stay upto date with the latest packages

> I have two pretty good systems:
>
> Compaq Deskpro EN
>
Go the Compaq... more RAM



> So, the first question I have is, which distribution? The second is, 
> which PC I should use for this? It's been suggested that the P733 will 
> be faster than the Duron 800. And I do recall problems with the Duron 
> hanging. 

Well, I think I answered this one already. I mainly chose the Compaq 
because you had more RAM in it.

> I haven't had that problem of late but then I have not been using it 
> much. My only problem with using the P733 is that it has an onboard 
> card *and* a sound card. So, I don't know which sound card is the 
> ?active? one (if that is aconcept that applies) at any given time. I 
> want to be able to leave my line, mic and speakers cables attached to 
> one card (the SBL! 5.1) and know that that is the card that will 
> record and play.

This shouldn't be too much of a problem. You should also be able to 
disable the onboard sound in the BIOS.



> Thank you. This is a long email to read.

Damn straight. ;)

Regards,

David Colebatch
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 07:00:11 2004
From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 03:00:11 -0400
Subject: Please change the Subject was Re:s&f
In-Reply-To: <40B2E3AA.2030007-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net> <40B2E3AA.2030007@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <20040525070011.GB4108@smeagol>

While it was a cute idea, I find the Subject line sailing gracefully past
jarring and into the realm of offensive. While I happily delete
threads I don't want to read, would everyone be so kind as to slightly 
modify the Subject line when they hit the reply button for my gentle eyes?

thank you,
emma
PS I believe this is normally referred to as a "cats and coffee" warning?
Whereby any email that will cause you to spill hot coffee (or otherwise
blow it out your nose); or cause the cat to grab your legs when you
scream, must be appropriately identified.

-- 
Emma Jane Hogbin
[[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 08:10:47 2004
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:10:47 +1000
Subject: Please change the Subject was Re:s&f
In-Reply-To: <20040525070011.GB4108-Kz9ENIl45+A@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net> <40B2E3AA.2030007@dingodave.cjb.net> <20040525070011.GB4108@smeagol>
Message-ID: <40B2FF87.4030004@dingodave.cjb.net>

Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:

>While it was a cute idea, I find the Subject line sailing gracefully past
>jarring and into the realm of offensive. While I happily delete
>threads I don't want to read, would everyone be so kind as to slightly 
>modify the Subject line when they hit the reply button for my gentle eyes?
>
>thank you,
>emma
>PS I believe this is normally referred to as a "cats and coffee" warning?
>Whereby any email that will cause you to spill hot coffee (or otherwise
>blow it out your nose); or cause the cat to grab your legs when you
>scream, must be appropriately identified.
>
>  
>
I do apologize for not having thought about that. ;)

I hope you didn't burn yourself with the coffee.

Rgds,
David

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 09:44:40 2004
From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:44:40 +0800
Subject: OT: Hardware for mail and DNS
Message-ID: <200405251744.40044.jerome@gmanmi.tv>

Hi,

	Im planning to setup a server for our office which will be running mail and 
dns. ( is this recommended? )

	Can someone give me hardware specs for this.  I was thinking of a ProLiant 
DL140 would this be an over kill?

TIA,
jm

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 12:47:16 2004
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 08:47:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <200405241913.29651.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <1085425303.6989.35.camel@lnx2.bobach.org> <40B2734B.6010808@rogers.com>
 <200405241913.29651.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 24 May 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Monday 24 May 2004 18:12, James Knott wrote:
>
>> concept of some supreme being that absolute nonsense. ?God was created
>> by man, not the other way around.
>
> Creation has not been proven, nor has the theory of evolution.

     Evolution is a fact; it has not been determined which theory best
     explains the facts.

> It's a debate that neither side is likely to prove in our lifetimes
> despite pontification from both sides.  It's a debate that may never
> be settled since both sides will continue to put forward fantastic
> hypothesis to explain the latest wrinkles in their stories.
>
> Don't get me wrong, it is a worthwhile debate, just not worthwhile on a Linux
> list ...

      Spoilsport! (But you're quite right.)

-- 
 	Chris F.A. Johnson                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
 	=================================================================
                 Everything in moderation -- including moderation

From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 13:40:20 2004
From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:40:20 -0400
Subject: Email Problem
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <40B34CC4.3010309@utoronto.ca>

Does this have anything to do with SPF (Sender Policy Framework)?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 13:56:10 2004
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:56:10 -0400
Subject: Email Problem
In-Reply-To: <40B34CC4.3010309-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <40B34CC4.3010309@utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <40B3507A.6070006@canada.com>

SPF has been designed to avoid this kind of problems.  It is a kind of 
servers authentication protocol to ensure that the server that sent the 
email is really owned by whom it claims to be.

Gilles

Ivan Avery Frey wrote:

> Does this have anything to do with SPF (Sender Policy Framework)?
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 13:59:11 2004
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:59:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Hardware for mail and DNS [Long]
In-Reply-To: <200405251744.40044.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405251744.40044.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: 

On Tue, 25 May 2004, Jerome Macaranas wrote:

> Hi,
>
> 	Im planning to setup a server for our office which will be running
> mail and dns. ( is this recommended? )

I always recommend DNS.  It makes so many subsequent management tasks
easier, especially if it is done correctly the first time.  Don't tie
hostnames or IPs into any config files or scripts, use aliases. (I prefer
A records to CNAMEs).  Use aliases for email addresses in scripts too.
Always consider how painful a subsequent upgrade will be because it isn't
matter of if you (or someone else) will upgrade but when.

Remember to run at least 2 nameservers for your private zone and if
possible locate them logically and geographically[1] seperately.

> 	Can someone give me hardware specs for this.  I was thinking of a
> ProLiant DL140 would this be an over kill?

Bind (DNS) takes little in the way of resources, even for busy domains.

As for the demands on mail some questions:

1. How much mail are you intending to push?
2. Are you intending to do spam checking locally?
3. Are you intending to do virus checking locally?

Unless you are intending to do large volumes of mail (100,000 messages per
day, say) even modest modern hardware will cope.  Two boxes with the same
MX level (if you are receiving mail via SMTP rather than POP3) allows for
redundancy in the face of hardware failure.  I'd recommend spending the
money on a few little boxes than one big box.

You may be able to run DNS and mail on the same boxes depending on your
network topology.  Eg, if the mail servers are in a DMZ then don't put the
authorative servers for your internal domain on the same boxes for
security reasons.

When working with world visible domains I don't like to put the primary
nameserver on the same box as the primary MX since it creates additional
headaches if the box dies, but putting secondary DNS on to the same box as
the primary MX is much better.  It allows for a more graceful transfer.

I'd need more info about your setup to get more specific.

[1] This may sound funny for an office environment but don't put them in
the same rack or on the same power feed[2].  If possible put them in
different rooms.  If you have multiple sites, then keep at least 2 at each
site.

[2] I have a story about this :)  I once built two Sun E250s to be
externally visible mail servers for a large organisation.  Each box had 6
SCSI disks.  The boot blocks and root filesystems each had 3 mirror
copies, swap had 2 mirrors, and /var used 5 disk RAID5.  The 6th disk
acted as a hotswap.  Each box had 2 power supplies (Like a lot of modern
Sun gear, E250s will gracefully keep running if the power feed to one of
these dies).  Each box could run with a significant number of its disks
dead.  In addition the boxes were setup to each be MX 10 for a busy
domain.  Once fully tested (and locked down throughly) I went to roll
these out into production and handed them to the staff high availability
Data Centre for installation.  They were originally going to be installed
on different floors of the HA DC.  Someone somewhere got their wires
crossed (so to speak) and they ended up in the same rack.  We also
discovered that if you followed the two power cords out of the racks they
ended up in the same power feed :( Despite the best efforts of myself and
a few others this was the situation when my contract ended.  My
recommendations were in writing so no one can say I didn't warn them :)

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 14:46:22 2004
From: pdirezze-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul DiRezze)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 10:46:22 -0400
Subject: More licensing grist for the mill
Message-ID: <5.1.1.5.0.20040525104555.022df8b0@POP2.sympatico.ca>

http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3358061

paul

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 17:09:19 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 13:09:19 -0400
Subject: OT: Hardware for mail and DNS
In-Reply-To: <200405251744.40044.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405251744.40044.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <20040525170919.GA2975@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, May 25, 2004 at 05:44:40PM +0800, Jerome Macaranas wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> 	Im planning to setup a server for our office which will be
> 	running mail and dns. ( is this recommended? )
> 
> 	Can someone give me hardware specs for this.  I was thinking of
> 	a ProLiant DL140 would this be an over kill?

Yes to both count.  But, it really depends on amount of technical
knowledge/staff your office has access to.  Since you're asking, I shall
assume you got none.  In that case, 

    - Make sure secondary MX (if exist) is under your control.
      Malfunctioning secondary MX is worse than not having one at all.
      If primary MX fails, emails will queue on senders' machines if
      secondary MX doesn't exist.  But, you definitely don't want emails
      to go to the secondary MX and get lost.

    - Any hardware will do.  Of course, try to pick quality components,
      namely motherboard, harddisk, power supply.
    
    - Make sure backup strategy is simple and written out, so that
      anyone can follow it blindly.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Linux solution/training/migration, Thin-client
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 20:16:23 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:16:23 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
Message-ID: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).

   I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.

   I have run into a problem where I need to write data into a 
postgresql database and it is unbearably slow to do the task. I have 
been reading (and will continue to read after sending this) what I can 
find on the postgresql.org site and elsewhere that google points me but 
so far my attempts to resolve the problem have in fact made it worse.

   Specs: I have Fedora Core 1 on a Pentium3 650MHz CPU with 448MB RAM 
(it's a box make of parts) running in runlevel 3 with no X up.

   I have tried increasing the amount of swap space by passing:

echo 128000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/shmmax

   to the kernel and editing /var /lib/pgsql/data/postgresql.cong to have:

shared_buffers = 15200
sort_mem = 32168

   Before I started messing with things I record a directory with 2,490 
files and folders (just the names, obviously!) in 23 seconds which was 
not reasonable. When I tried to record a filesystem with 175,000 records 
it took 32 minutes... Since I have started tweaking the same number of 
records takes 35 seconds.

   What the script does during this time is:
- Read the contents of an 'ls' call into an array
- Process each entry in that array by spliting out the data in string 
variables
- Look at the permission to see if it is a directory or a file.
- If it is a file, check within the database to see if the record exists
   - If it exists, update it
   - If it does not exist, insert it
- If it is a direcotry first check it against an array of ignored 
directories
   - If the directory isn't to ignored:
     - Check to see if the directory already exists as a record
       - If it does, update it
       - if it does not, insert it
       - Read the contents of the subdirectory using the same steps here.


   Thanks everyone!!

Madison

   Here is the code snipet:

=- Begin perl code snippet -=

$starttime=time;
$real_dir=$mntdir;
# Set the 'file_exist' flag to 'false' and reset exiting files to 'true'.
$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_exist='f' WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
# Jump to our file list sub routine
&list_files($real_dir, $exclude_list_num, $relative_dir);
$endtime=time;
$totaltime=($endtime - $starttime);

sub list_files
{
	my $real_dir = shift;
	my $exclude_list_num = shift;
	my $relative_dir = shift;
	print " \n";
	print " =- Working in directory; Real Dir: '$real_dir', Relative Dir: 
'$relative_dir' -=\n";
	print "Permission\t Num\t Owner\t Group\t Size\t Mod Date\t Mod 
Time\t\t GMT\t File Name\n";
	open (LS, "sudo ls -lA --full-time '$real_dir' 2>&1 |");
	my @file_list;
	while ()
	{
		next if /^total \d+/;
		s/\n//;
		push ( @file_list, $_ );
	}
	close(LS);
	for ( @file_list )
	{
		my ($file_perm, $num, $file_own_user, $file_own_grp, $file_size, 
$file_mod_date, $file_mod_time, $file_mod_time_zone, 
$file_name)=split/\s+/, $_, 9;
		next if ( $file_perm eq "total" );
		if ( $file_perm =~ /^d/ )
		{
			$baddir=0;
			for ($j=0; $j <= $exclude_list_num; $j++)
			{
				my $dircheck;
				if ( $real_dir eq "/" )
				{
					$dircheck=$real_dir.$file_name;
				}
				else
				{
					$dircheck=$real_dir."/".$file_name;
				}
				if ( $exclude_list[$j] eq $dircheck )
				{
					$baddir=1;
				}
			}
			if ( $baddir == 0 )
			{
				if ( $real_dir eq "/" )
				{
					$passed_real_dir=$real_dir.$file_name;
				}
				else
				{
					$passed_real_dir=$real_dir."/".$file_name;
				}
				$file_parent_dir=$relative_dir;
				if ( $relative_dir eq "/" )
				{
					$passed_relative_dir=$relative_dir.$file_name;
				}
				else
				{
					$passed_relative_dir=$relative_dir."/".$file_name;
				}
				$i++;
				print "$file_perm\t $file_own_user\t $file_own_grp\t $file_size\t 
$file_mod_date\t $file_mod_time\t $file_mod_time_zone\t $file_name\n";
				$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
				$num=$DBreq->execute();
				if ( $num > 0 )
				{
  					$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_perm='$file_perm', 
file_own_user='$file_own_user', file_own_grp='$file_own_grp', 
file_size=$file_size, file_mod_date='$file_mod_date', 
file_mod_time='$file_mod_time', 
file_mod_time_zone='$file_mod_time_zone', file_exist='t' WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
				}
				else
				{
					$DB->do("INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, file_name, file_dir, 
file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, file_own_grp, file_size, 
file_mod_date, file_mod_time, file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, 
file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( '$file_src_uuid', '$file_name', 't', 
'$file_parent_dir', '$file_perm', '$file_own_user', '$file_own_grp', 
$file_size, '$file_mod_date', '$file_mod_time', '$file_mod_time_zone', 
0, 0, 't' )") || die "$DBI::errstr";
				}
				&list_files($passed_real_dir, $exclude_list_num, $passed_relative_dir);
			}
		}
		elsif ( $file_perm =~ /^l/ )
		{
			# MADDY: Add the option to let the user decide whether to follow 
symlinks or not then catch it here.
			$file_dir="f";
			$file_parent_dir=$relative_dir;
			$i++;
			print "$file_perm\t $num\t $file_own_user\t $file_own_grp\t 
$file_size\t $file_mod_date\t $file_mod_time\t $file_mod_time_zone\t 
$file_name\n";
			$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			$num=$DBreq->execute();
			if ( $num > 0 )
			{
				$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_perm='$file_perm', 
file_own_user='$file_own_user', file_own_grp='$file_own_grp', 
file_size=$file_size, file_mod_date='$file_mod_date', 
file_mod_time='$file_mod_time', 
file_mod_time_zone='$file_mod_time_zone', file_exist='t' WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
			else
			{
				$DB->do("INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, file_name, file_dir, 
file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, file_own_grp, file_size, 
file_mod_date, file_mod_time, file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, 
file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( '$file_src_uuid', '$file_name', 'f', 
'$file_parent_dir', '$file_perm', '$file_own_user', '$file_own_grp', 
$file_size, '$file_mod_date', '$file_mod_time', '$file_mod_time_zone', 
0, 0, 't' )") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
		}
		elsif ( $file_perm =~ /^-/ )
		{
			$file_dir="f";
			$file_parent_dir=$relative_dir;
			$i++;
			print "$file_perm\t $num\t $file_own_user\t $file_own_grp\t 
$file_size\t $file_mod_date\t $file_mod_time\t $file_mod_time_zone\t 
$file_name\n";
			$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			$num=$DBreq->execute();
			if ( $num > 0 )
			{
				$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_perm='$file_perm', 
file_own_user='$file_own_user', file_own_grp='$file_own_grp', 
file_size=$file_size, file_mod_date='$file_mod_date', 
file_mod_time='$file_mod_time', 
file_mod_time_zone='$file_mod_time_zone', file_exist='t' WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
			else
			{
				$DB->do("INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, file_name, file_dir, 
file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, file_own_grp, file_size, 
file_mod_date, file_mod_time, file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, 
file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( '$file_src_uuid', '$file_name', 'f', 
'$file_parent_dir', '$file_perm', '$file_own_user', '$file_own_grp', 
$file_size, '$file_mod_date', '$file_mod_time', '$file_mod_time_zone', 
0, 0, 't' )") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
		}
		else
		{
			system 'echo " | |- \''.$file_name.'\' is not a known file type, 
skipping." >> '.$log;
		}
	}
	print " =- Return from; Real Dir: '$real_dir', Relative Dir: 
'$relative_dir':\n";
	print " \n";
	return;
}

=- End perl code snippet -=

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 20:20:40 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:20:40 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3A997.8020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040525202040.GM9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, May 25, 2004 at 04:16:23PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).
> 
>   I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
> postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
> efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.
> 
>   I have run into a problem where I need to write data into a 
> postgresql database and it is unbearably slow to do the task. I have 
> been reading (and will continue to read after sending this) what I can 
> find on the postgresql.org site and elsewhere that google points me but 
> so far my attempts to resolve the problem have in fact made it worse.
> 
>   Specs: I have Fedora Core 1 on a Pentium3 650MHz CPU with 448MB RAM 
> (it's a box make of parts) running in runlevel 3 with no X up.
> 
>   I have tried increasing the amount of swap space by passing:
> 
> echo 128000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/shmmax
> 
>   to the kernel and editing /var /lib/pgsql/data/postgresql.cong to have:
> 
> shared_buffers = 15200
> sort_mem = 32168
> 
>   Before I started messing with things I record a directory with 2,490 
> files and folders (just the names, obviously!) in 23 seconds which was 
> not reasonable. When I tried to record a filesystem with 175,000 records 
> it took 32 minutes... Since I have started tweaking the same number of 
> records takes 35 seconds.
> 
>   What the script does during this time is:
> - Read the contents of an 'ls' call into an array
> - Process each entry in that array by spliting out the data in string 
> variables
> - Look at the permission to see if it is a directory or a file.
> - If it is a file, check within the database to see if the record exists
>   - If it exists, update it
>   - If it does not exist, insert it
> - If it is a direcotry first check it against an array of ignored 
> directories
>   - If the directory isn't to ignored:
>     - Check to see if the directory already exists as a record
>       - If it does, update it
>       - if it does not, insert it
>       - Read the contents of the subdirectory using the same steps here.

Do you have indexes on the important fields in the database?  If not, go
create them.  A database operates much faster when it has indexes than
without.

Have you checked how long it takes the perl script to run without the
database actually being used, just for the processing of the ls data?
Is it possible perhaps to 'know' that some files don't even have to be
processed again somehow to make it more efficient for updates?

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 20:26:17 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 16:26:17 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <20040525202040.GM9500-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com> <20040525202040.GM9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <40B3ABE9.6060100@alteeve.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, May 25, 2004 at 04:16:23PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
> Do you have indexes on the important fields in the database?  If not, go
> create them.  A database operates much faster when it has indexes than
> without.
> 
> Have you checked how long it takes the perl script to run without the
> database actually being used, just for the processing of the ls data?
> Is it possible perhaps to 'know' that some files don't even have to be
> processed again somehow to make it more efficient for updates?
> 
> Lennart Sorensen

   I do have indexes on the three columns I search within to decide is I 
have an existing record or not. If it would help, I can post my schema 
here. I also did test it without the database and the listing of the 
175,000 files tooks about 3 minutes. I wrote the code by first simply 
having the results printed. Only when I got the re-entrant subroutine 
working did I try to start feeding the data into the database.

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 13:32:31 2004
From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 09:32:31 -0400
Subject: Forged From Address
In-Reply-To: <40AE986C.8070408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <40AE986C.8070408@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <40B34AEF.9000201@utoronto.ca>

I received a bad email forged with your address. I nearly missed it 
because U of T flagged it, removed the email attachment and stuck it in 
my junk mail folder.

If you're an alumnus of U of T, you get a imap mailbox for the rest of 
your life. Now that they have a spamfilter, it's the cat's miao.

Regards, Ivan.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 21:16:42 2004
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:16:42 -0400
Subject: Good command in mutt
In-Reply-To: <20040524235349.GA2502-dS67q9zC6oM7y9Lc2D0nHSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040524235349.GA2502@sillyrabbi.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20040525211642.GC23867@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org>

On Mon, May 24, 2004 at 07:53:49PM -0400 or thereabouts, William O'Higgins wrote:
> I just found a use for Ctrl-D in mutt - it deletes an entire thread,
> digressions, off-topic meanderings and all sorts of off-topic stuff at
> once.  Very useful.

Indeed, and Control-R will mark a thread read.

-- 
S.Allen
-----------------------------------------------
barnyard  Tuesday May 25 2004 05:10:01 PM EDT
-----------------------------------------------
Yow!  Those people look exactly like Donnie and Marie Osmond!!
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: 

From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 21:54:41 2004
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 17:54:41 -0400
Subject: sex & foreplay
In-Reply-To: <40B2B508.3060604-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <40B3C0A1.7040504@passport.ca>

Hi Chris,
I would highly recommend you install your audio via Planet CCRMA 
http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/  . It comes with a low 
latency kernel.  Audacity is available here. Software is installed via 
apt-get so a lot of dependancy hassles are taken care of. 
 From the site:
" Planet CCRMA (CCRMA is pronounced ``karma'') at Home is a collection 
of rpms (RPM  stands for RedHat Package Manager) 
that you can add to a computer running RedHat 7.3, 8.0, 9 or Fedora Core 
1 to transform it into an audio workstation with a low-latency kernel, 
current ALSA audio drivers and a nice set of music, midi, audio and 
video applications. It replicates most of the Linux environment we have 
been using for years here at CCRMA for our daily work in audio and 
computer music production and research. Planet CCRMA is easy to install 
and maintain, it can be installed and upgraded over the network from the 
Planet CCRMA apt repository or its mirrors, or from cdroms you can 
download from this site."
Jim

> First the sex then the foreplay. That way I won't waste your time if 
> you're not interested. ; )
>
> The Sex:
>
> I can't configure my linux boxes to record musical instruments.
>
> The Foreplay:
>
> I want to record music in linux. I'm thinking of Audactiy because it's 
> easy to get and looks like what I want ? a multitrack recorder.
>
> I have two pretty good systems:
>
> Compaq Deskpro EN
> 384 MB RAM
> Sound onboard: Intel 18x0 82801BA/BAM AC'97 Audio (rev 01)
> Sound card: Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 EMU10k1 (rev 0a)
> NIC and 56K external modem
>
> custom Duron 800
> 256 MB RAM
> Sound: Creative Media CM 8738
> Video: ATI Xpert 98 8 MB AGP
> NIC and 56K external modem
>
> I also have an external backpack CD-RW which I could use with either 
> machine (not that I've figured that out yet).
>
> My instruments, cables, PC, soundcards and the stereo system that the 
> PC connects to for playback all work fine. I have recorded music under 
> Windows 98 so the hardware is all OK.
>
> I've been running a business with applications running on linux for a 
> few months now ? spreadsheet, word processor, printing, posters, 
> business cards, Internet and email. Multitrack sound recording is my 
> final frontier.
>
> Here are some of the things I have done, resources I have, etc...
>
> - I had a debian guru from the list install beta sarge on the P733. As 
> soon as I got the PC back to Timmins and booted it, I got the error, 
> ?artsd - sound server fatal error - cpu overloaded? and have not been 
> able to record with the card. I can't play CDs either. I installed 
> (even bought) Vmware so that I could test the card in W98. Little did 
> I know that the VMware W98 vm can't use a real driver ? it picks sound 
> up (if it's working) from linux via VMware Tools ? in short, if I'm 
> right, the Vmware quest will pick up sound only if it's working on the 
> host. But I don't want to get sidetracked with VMware issues. I want 
> to get sound working under linux.
>
> - I have a dial-up connection to the Internet so I can download 
> applications but not OSs. If someone out there inspires me to work 
> with a particular distribution I'll get it from Cheapbytes or wherever.
>
> - At one point I had a linux/W98 dual-boot. However I found myself 
> spending too much time in W98 and too little in linux. Everytime I 
> didn't know how to do something I would just boot to W98. I don't 
> think that would happen now as I can do all (but multitrack recording 
> and CD burning) in linux now. So, if a dual-boot scenario will serve 
> me well for a while I may try that while I'm learning how to configure 
> sound in linux.
>
> It seems to me that the best thing to do would be to do a dual-boot 
> W98/linux (whatever tluggers talk me into) installation. Then I could 
> carve the hdb drive into two to back up song projects in W98 and 
> linux. The two benefits of this scenario are, 1. I would have access 
> to information about hardware (including that it is connected and 
> working) from W98, and, 2. I could start recording songs in W98 (on 
> ProTools Free) while I work away at configuring sound in linux. So, 
> all week linux would be up for business and sound configuration, and 
> when the weekend comes I boot to W98 and get recording (until Windows 
> is finally out of my life) ? that kind of thing.
>
> So, the first question I have is, which distribution? The second is, 
> which PC I should use for this? It's been suggested that the P733 will 
> be faster than the Duron 800. And I do recall problems with the Duron 
> hanging. I haven't had that problem of late but then I have not been 
> using it much. My only problem with using the P733 is that it has an 
> onboard card *and* a sound card. So, I don't know which sound card is 
> the ?active? one (if that is aconcept that applies) at any given time. 
> I want to be able to leave my line, mic and speakers cables attached 
> to one card (the SBL! 5.1) and know that that is the card that will 
> record and play.
>
> Of course, this all begs the question, why not just use W98? Well, I 
> don't want to. I hate the idea of using MS products even if I'm not 
> paying for them. Multitrack recording and CD burning) is the only 
> thing between me and a Microsoft-free life.
>
> Don't be shy to suggest things that cost money. If buying a Mandrake 
> boxed set with support is the answer then I'll do it.
>
> I'm not looking for the distribution I'm going to grow old with, just 
> one that a redhat, and soon-to-be-former Windows, user would be able 
> to learn with modest but consistent effort over the next five weeks (I 
> want to be multitrack-recording in earnest by the summer) and have a 
> chance of having Audacity (or another multitrack recording 
> application) come up and record instruments through the Mic and Line 
> ports no my soundcard.
>
> Thank you. This is a long email to read.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Chris Aitken
>
>
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 22:01:56 2004
From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:01:56 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3A997.8020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: 

Hi Madison

Is there associated data in the database that must be maintained?
Or are there records which may not be deleted?

If neither I would suggest starting with empty tables and updating
without checks or indices.  Create the index after for lookup purposes.

If you need to hang on to existing data you might try to load a temp table
and create a new table using just SQL using a subquery to generate the
data.    It's not really clear if this is faster in total.   Performance issues
are like that.

Jim
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 22:08:14 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:08:14 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <40B3C3CE.5070201@alteeve.com>

Hi Jim,

   That was my first though; to just delete the data relative to the 
partition I was working with and reload it, but there is a flag I need 
that will be set by the user.

   This is a backup program so when I user selects a file or directory 
the database is updated to remember that the user had selected it for 
backup. If I deleted all the existing data that would go to and thus the 
user would have to select what files they wanted to backup every time 
they opened up the partition...

   Darn this is complicated... :/

Madison

Jim Rootham wrote:
> Hi Madison
> 
> Is there associated data in the database that must be maintained?
> Or are there records which may not be deleted?
> 
> If neither I would suggest starting with empty tables and updating
> without checks or indices.  Create the index after for lookup purposes.
> 
> If you need to hang on to existing data you might try to load a temp table
> and create a new table using just SQL using a subquery to generate the
> data.    It's not really clear if this is faster in total.   Performance issues
> are like that.
> 
> Jim


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 23:43:43 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:43:43 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3A997.8020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200405251943.43759.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Tuesday 25 May 2004 16:16, Madison Kelly wrote:

> ? ?Before I started messing with things I record a directory with 2,490
> files and folders (just the names, obviously!) in 23 seconds which was
> not reasonable. When I tried to record a filesystem with 175,000 records
> it took 32 minutes... Since I have started tweaking the same number of
> records takes 35 seconds.

How are you connecting?  I see a variable $DB but I'm not sure what type of 
object it is.  Is it possible that you are reconnecting to the database on 
every single select/insert/update, that will massively slow down the 
operations.  I'm not a DBI (or perl) expert but perhaps if you can show how 
your establishing the database connection, and doing subsequent 
select/insert/deletes, someone else can chip in.

I expect that having indexes on the database could slow you down (at least for 
inserts).

If you can't get postgresql working right you could always dump it for mysql. 
Mysql does have some licensing quirks these days that may (legitimately) give 
you second thoughts but don't let the database guys tell you that it's "just 
an interface to files" (or something like that).  Still I'd give postgresql 
an honest shot since you started out with that.

Mysql has never been a bottleneck for me, you can only know for sure about 
your app by trying it.

-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 00:16:51 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:16:51 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <200405251943.43759.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com> <200405251943.43759.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: <40B3E1F3.2020301@alteeve.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Tuesday 25 May 2004 16:16, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
> 
>>   Before I started messing with things I record a directory with 2,490
>>files and folders (just the names, obviously!) in 23 seconds which was
>>not reasonable. When I tried to record a filesystem with 175,000 records
>>it took 32 minutes... Since I have started tweaking the same number of
>>records takes 35 seconds.
> 
> 
> How are you connecting?  I see a variable $DB but I'm not sure what type of 
> object it is.  Is it possible that you are reconnecting to the database on 
> every single select/insert/update, that will massively slow down the 
> operations.  I'm not a DBI (or perl) expert but perhaps if you can show how 
> your establishing the database connection, and doing subsequent 
> select/insert/deletes, someone else can chip in.
> 
> I expect that having indexes on the database could slow you down (at least for 
> inserts).
> 
> If you can't get postgresql working right you could always dump it for mysql. 
> Mysql does have some licensing quirks these days that may (legitimately) give 
> you second thoughts but don't let the database guys tell you that it's "just 
> an interface to files" (or something like that).  Still I'd give postgresql 
> an honest shot since you started out with that.
> 
> Mysql has never been a bottleneck for me, you can only know for sure about 
> your app by trying it.
> 

   Hi Fraser, and thanks for responding! I am not sure if I am keeping 
the connection open or not. I have tried adding 'autocommit = false' to 
'postgresql.conf' but then everything broke (maybe for other reasons, I 
have been poking at a lot) which -should- hold everything in memory 
until the job is done and then commit the lot but maybe I understand how 
to use it wrong...

   Learning so much at once is really burning my poor brain out... :/ I 
really appreciate your (and everyone else's!) help!

Madison

  =- Here is how I open the database:

# Open the connection to the database
my $DB = DBI->connect("DBI:Pg:dbname=$db_name","$user")|| die("Connect 
error (Is PostgresSQL running?): $DBI::errstr"); 


  =- Here is what I do before jumping into my sub-routine for the first 
time:

$starttime=time;
$real_dir=$mntdir;
# Set the 'file_exist' flag to 'false' and reset exiting files to 'true'.
$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_exist='f' WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
# Jump to our file list sub routine
&list_files($real_dir, $exclude_list_num, $relative_dir);
$endtime=time;
$totaltime=($endtime - $starttime);
system 'echo " |- Displayed \''.$i.'\' files and directories in 
\''.$totaltime.'\' seconds." >> '.$log;
system 'echo " \\- Finished reading in the file and directory list for 
the partition mounted at \''.$mntdir.'\'!" >> '.$log;

  =- Here is the subroutine that does all the work and feeds data into 
the database:

sub list_files
{
	my $real_dir = shift;
	my $exclude_list_num = shift;
	my $relative_dir = shift;
	open (LS, "sudo ls -lA --full-time '$real_dir' 2>&1 |");
	my @file_list;
	while ()
	{
		next if /^total \d+/;
		s/\n//;
		push ( @file_list, $_ );
	}
	close(LS);
	for ( @file_list )
	{
		my ($file_perm, $num, $file_own_user, $file_own_grp, $file_size, 
$file_mod_date, $file_mod_time, $file_mod_time_zone, 
$file_name)=split/\s+/, $_, 9;
		next if ( $file_perm eq "total" );
		if ( $file_perm =~ /^d/ )
		{
			my $ufl;
			$baddir=0;
			for ($j=0; $j <= $exclude_list_num; $j++)
			{
				my $dircheck;
				if ( $real_dir eq "/" )
				{
					$dircheck=$real_dir.$file_name;
				}
				else
				{
					$dircheck=$real_dir."/".$file_name;
				}
				if ( $exclude_list[$j] eq $dircheck )
				{
					$baddir=1;
				}
			}
			if ( $baddir == 0 )
			{
				if ( $real_dir eq "/" )
				{
					$passed_real_dir=$real_dir.$file_name;
				}
				else
				{
					$passed_real_dir=$real_dir."/".$file_name;
				}
				$file_parent_dir=$relative_dir;
				if ( $relative_dir eq "/" )
				{
					$passed_relative_dir=$relative_dir.$file_name;
				}
				else
				{
					$passed_relative_dir=$relative_dir."/".$file_name;
				}
				$i++;
				print "$file_perm\t $file_own_user\t $file_own_grp\t $file_size\t 
$file_mod_date\t $file_mod_time\t $file_mod_time_zone\t 
$relative_dir"."$file_name\n";
				$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
				$num=$DBreq->execute();
				system 'echo " |- Num equals \''.$num.'\', Filesize equals 
\''.$file_size.'\'" >> '.$log;
				if ( $num > 0 )
				{
					system 'echo " | \\- \"UPDATE file_dir SET 
file_perm=\''.$file_perm.'\', file_own_user=\''.$file_own_user.'\', 
file_own_grp=\''.$file_own_grp.'\', file_size='.$file_size.', 
file_mod_date=\''.$file_mod_date.'\', 
file_mod_time=\''.$file_mod_time.'\', 
file_mod_time_zone=\''.$file_mod_time_zone.'\', file_exist=\'t\' WHERE 
file_src_uuid=\''.$file_src_uuid.'\' AND 
file_parent_dir=\''.$relative_dir.'\' AND 
file_name=\''.$file_name.'\'\"" >> '.$log;
					$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_perm='$file_perm', 
file_own_user='$file_own_user', file_own_grp='$file_own_grp', 
file_size=$file_size, file_mod_date='$file_mod_date', 
file_mod_time='$file_mod_time', 
file_mod_time_zone='$file_mod_time_zone', file_exist='t' WHERE 
file_ufl='$file_ufl'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
				}
				else
				{
					system 'echo " | \\- \"INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, 
file_name, file_dir, file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, 
file_own_grp, file_size, file_mod_date, file_mod_time, 
file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( 
\''.$file_src_uuid.'\', \''.$file_name.'\', \'t\', 
\''.$file_parent_dir.'\', \''.$file_perm.'\', \''.$file_own_user.'\', 
\''.$file_own_grp.'\', '.$file_size.', \''.$file_mod_date.'\', 
\''.$file_mod_time.'\', \''.$file_mod_time_zone.'\', 0, 0, \'t\' )\"" >> 
'.$log;
					$DB->do("INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, file_name, file_dir, 
file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, file_own_grp, file_size, 
file_mod_date, file_mod_time, file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, 
file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( '$file_src_uuid', '$file_name', 't', 
'$file_parent_dir', '$file_perm', '$file_own_user', '$file_own_grp', 
$file_size, '$file_mod_date', '$file_mod_time', '$file_mod_time_zone', 
0, 0, 't' )") || die "$DBI::errstr";
				}
				&list_files($passed_real_dir, $exclude_list_num, $passed_relative_dir);
			}
		}
		elsif ( $file_perm =~ /^l/ )
		{
			# MADDY: Add the option to let the user decide whether to follow 
symlinks or not then catch it here.
			$file_dir="f";
			$file_parent_dir=$relative_dir;
			$i++;
			print "$file_perm\t $file_own_user\t $file_own_grp\t $file_size\t 
$file_mod_date\t $file_mod_time\t $file_mod_time_zone\t 
$relative_dir"."$file_name\n";
			$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			$num=$DBreq->execute();
			system 'echo " |- Num equals \''.$num.'\', Filesize equals 
\''.$file_size.'\'" >> '.$log;
			if ( $num > 0 )
			{
				system 'echo " | \\- \"UPDATE file_dir SET 
file_perm=\''.$file_perm.'\', file_own_user=\''.$file_own_user.'\', 
file_own_grp=\''.$file_own_grp.'\', file_size='.$file_size.', 
file_mod_date=\''.$file_mod_date.'\', 
file_mod_time=\''.$file_mod_time.'\', 
file_mod_time_zone=\''.$file_mod_time_zone.'\', file_exist=\'t\' WHERE 
file_src_uuid=\''.$file_src_uuid.'\' AND 
file_parent_dir=\''.$relative_dir.'\' AND 
file_name=\''.$file_name.'\'\"" >> '.$log;
				$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_perm='$file_perm', 
file_own_user='$file_own_user', file_own_grp='$file_own_grp', 
file_size=$file_size, file_mod_date='$file_mod_date', 
file_mod_time='$file_mod_time', 
file_mod_time_zone='$file_mod_time_zone', file_exist='t' WHERE 
file_ufl='$file_ufl'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
			else
			{
				system 'echo " | \\- \"INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, 
file_name, file_dir, file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, 
file_own_grp, file_size, file_mod_date, file_mod_time, 
file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( 
\''.$file_src_uuid.'\', \''.$file_name.'\', \'t\', 
\''.$file_parent_dir.'\', \''.$file_perm.'\', \''.$file_own_user.'\', 
\''.$file_own_grp.'\', '.$file_size.', \''.$file_mod_date.'\', 
\''.$file_mod_time.'\', \''.$file_mod_time_zone.'\', 0, 0, \'t\' )\"" >> 
'.$log;
				$DB->do("INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, file_name, file_dir, 
file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, file_own_grp, file_size, 
file_mod_date, file_mod_time, file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, 
file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( '$file_src_uuid', '$file_name', 't', 
'$file_parent_dir', '$file_perm', '$file_own_user', '$file_own_grp', 
$file_size, '$file_mod_date', '$file_mod_time', '$file_mod_time_zone', 
0, 0, 't' )") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
		}
		elsif ( $file_perm =~ /^-/ )
		{
			$file_dir="f";
			$file_parent_dir=$relative_dir;
			$i++;
			print "$file_perm\t $file_own_user\t $file_own_grp\t $file_size\t 
$file_mod_date\t $file_mod_time\t $file_mod_time_zone\t 
$relative_dir"."$file_name\n";
			$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			$num=$DBreq->execute();
			system 'echo " |- Num equals \''.$num.'\', Filesize equals 
\''.$file_size.'\'" >> '.$log;
			if ( $num > 0 )
			{
				system 'echo " | \\- \"UPDATE file_dir SET 
file_perm=\''.$file_perm.'\', file_own_user=\''.$file_own_user.'\', 
file_own_grp=\''.$file_own_grp.'\', file_size='.$file_size.', 
file_mod_date=\''.$file_mod_date.'\', 
file_mod_time=\''.$file_mod_time.'\', 
file_mod_time_zone=\''.$file_mod_time_zone.'\', file_exist=\'t\' WHERE 
file_src_uuid=\''.$file_src_uuid.'\' AND 
file_parent_dir=\''.$relative_dir.'\' AND 
file_name=\''.$file_name.'\'\"" >> '.$log;
				$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_perm='$file_perm', 
file_own_user='$file_own_user', file_own_grp='$file_own_grp', 
file_size=$file_size, file_mod_date='$file_mod_date', 
file_mod_time='$file_mod_time', 
file_mod_time_zone='$file_mod_time_zone', file_exist='t' WHERE 
file_ufl='$file_ufl'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
			else
			{
				system 'echo " | \\- \"INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, 
file_name, file_dir, file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, 
file_own_grp, file_size, file_mod_date, file_mod_time, 
file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( 
\''.$file_src_uuid.'\', \''.$file_name.'\', \'t\', 
\''.$file_parent_dir.'\', \''.$file_perm.'\', \''.$file_own_user.'\', 
\''.$file_own_grp.'\', '.$file_size.', \''.$file_mod_date.'\', 
\''.$file_mod_time.'\', \''.$file_mod_time_zone.'\', 0, 0, \'t\' )\"" >> 
'.$log;
				$DB->do("INSERT INTO file_dir ( file_src_uuid, file_name, file_dir, 
file_parent_dir, file_perm, file_own_user, file_own_grp, file_size, 
file_mod_date, file_mod_time, file_mod_time_zone, file_backup, 
file_display, file_exist ) VALUES ( '$file_src_uuid', '$file_name', 't', 
'$file_parent_dir', '$file_perm', '$file_own_user', '$file_own_grp', 
$file_size, '$file_mod_date', '$file_mod_time', '$file_mod_time_zone', 
0, 0, 't' )") || die "$DBI::errstr";
			}
		}
		else
		{
			system 'echo " | |- \''.$file_name.'\' is not a known file type, 
skipping." >> '.$log;
		}
	}
	return;
}

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 00:21:17 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:21:17 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3A997.8020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1085530877.16695.16.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 16:16, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>    The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).
> 
>    I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
> postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
> efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.
> 



One thing which should help is to prepare your select/update/insert
statements before even entering the function, then reusing them with
different bound values.  (See the DBI documentation for more on bound
values.) E.G.

> =- Begin perl code snippet -=
> 
> $starttime=time;

$select_sth = $DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
file_src_uuid=? AND file_parent_dir=? AND file_name=?;") || die
"$DBI::errstr";

> $real_dir=$mntdir;
> # Set the 'file_exist' flag to 'false' and reset exiting files to 'true'.
> $DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_exist='f' WHERE 
> file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
> # Jump to our file list sub routine
> &list_files($real_dir, $exclude_list_num, $relative_dir);
> $endtime=time;
> $totaltime=($endtime - $starttime);
> 
> sub list_files
> {



Replace these lines:

> 				$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
> file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
> file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
> 				$num=$DBreq->execute();

with:

$num = $select_sth->execute($file_src_uuid,$relative_dir,$file_name) ||
die "$DBI::errstr";



> =- End perl code snippet -=

Try doing this for all of your statements, even the ones which don't
return anything (eg updates and inserts).

This should not only help speed up your code (so that the statements
aren't continually re-parsed) it should also reduce the risk of
malformed SQL statements since bound parameters are automatically
appropriately quoted and escaped.

Also, when you're doing your timing, be sure to remove your print
statements unless they're crucial to the functioning of the script. 
Setting up the print statement and printing to a console is a slow
operation.

Another thing to look at is if unnecessary string conversions are
happening.  E.G. if the field file_sr_uuid is an int and your statements
end up as "WHERE file_src_uuid='n'" there *may* be an unneeded string
conversion happening and you should instead do "WHERE file_src_uuid=n".

Hope this helps.

Regards,
-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 00:33:55 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 20:33:55 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <1085530877.16695.16.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com> <1085530877.16695.16.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <40B3E5F3.4070303@alteeve.com>

Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 16:16, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>   The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).
>>
>>   I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
>>postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
>>efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One thing which should help is to prepare your select/update/insert
> statements before even entering the function, then reusing them with
> different bound values.  (See the DBI documentation for more on bound
> values.) E.G.
> 
> 
>>=- Begin perl code snippet -=
>>
>>$starttime=time;
> 
> 
> $select_sth = $DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
> file_src_uuid=? AND file_parent_dir=? AND file_name=?;") || die
> "$DBI::errstr";
> 
> 
>>$real_dir=$mntdir;
>># Set the 'file_exist' flag to 'false' and reset exiting files to 'true'.
>>$DB->do("UPDATE file_dir SET file_exist='f' WHERE 
>>file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
>># Jump to our file list sub routine
>>&list_files($real_dir, $exclude_list_num, $relative_dir);
>>$endtime=time;
>>$totaltime=($endtime - $starttime);
>>
>>sub list_files
>>{
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Replace these lines:
> 
> 
>>				$DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT null FROM file_dir WHERE 
>>file_src_uuid='$file_src_uuid' AND file_parent_dir='$relative_dir' AND 
>>file_name='$file_name'") || die "$DBI::errstr";
>>				$num=$DBreq->execute();
> 
> 
> with:
> 
> $num = $select_sth->execute($file_src_uuid,$relative_dir,$file_name) ||
> die "$DBI::errstr";
> 
> 
> 
>>=- End perl code snippet -=
> 
> 
> Try doing this for all of your statements, even the ones which don't
> return anything (eg updates and inserts).
> 
> This should not only help speed up your code (so that the statements
> aren't continually re-parsed) it should also reduce the risk of
> malformed SQL statements since bound parameters are automatically
> appropriately quoted and escaped.
> 
> Also, when you're doing your timing, be sure to remove your print
> statements unless they're crucial to the functioning of the script. 
> Setting up the print statement and printing to a console is a slow
> operation.
> 
> Another thing to look at is if unnecessary string conversions are
> happening.  E.G. if the field file_sr_uuid is an int and your statements
> end up as "WHERE file_src_uuid='n'" there *may* be an unneeded string
> conversion happening and you should instead do "WHERE file_src_uuid=n".
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards,

Thanks! I will implement your suggestions now and report back. On the 
string convertion thing, I single-quoted any string where the value 
would be alph-numeric in some form and left ones that are integers (ie: 
file_size) alone. Is that what you mean by avoiding string convertions?

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 01:21:46 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:21:46 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3A997.8020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1085534506.16695.30.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 16:16, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>    The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).
> 
>    I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
> postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
> efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.
> 

Oh yes, now that I think about it, one other suggestion.  Don't use ls. 
Traverse the directories by hand.  The overhead of running a process can
be large plus you have to parse the output of ls.  To traverse it what
you'll want to do something like what is described here:
http://iis1.cps.unizar.es/Oreilly/perl/cookbook/ch09_08.htm

or possibly here:
http://iis1.cps.unizar.es/Oreilly/perl/cookbook/ch09_06.htm

Regards,
-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 23:21:44 2004
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 19:21:44 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3A997.8020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40B3D508.5040706@sympatico.ca>

Madison Kelly wrote:
>
> ... or suggest a different way to approach my code.

I'm sure this question will have already been optimized to death on Perl 
Monks, . They have better wisdom there.

Some suggestions:

* are you sure your bottlenecks are in the DB server? Recursive 
directory traversing is best done with find(1), or better yet, some of 
Perl's internal directory-traversing routines. Have a look at:

	perldoc -f opendir
	perldoc -f readdir
	perldoc -f stat
	perldoc -f -X
	perldoc File::Find

These have to be better than recursively calling `sudo ls ...`

* Placeholders and Bind Values -- if you can restructure your code to 
use them effectively -- can speed up your DB access incredibly. Please 
see the section "Placeholders and Bind Values" in `perldoc DBI` for more 
details. What you want to do is prepare your SQL statement with 
placeholders outside the loop, then execute the precompiled statement 
with bound values inside the loop. I've seen 100x speed improvements 
just by moving the 'prepare' outside the loop. Also, with bound values, 
you get argument quoting for free. This is good.

* You don't want to muck around splitting up paths by '/'. Use 
File::Basename; it will do path parsing for you, reliably and portably.

I can't comment on the server side, 'cept to say no-one ever ran 
PostgreSQL for speed ;-) (ducks...)

  Stewart

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 01:48:14 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:48:14 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3A997.8020407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> 
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040526014815.5A4853FEF@cbbrowne.com>

> Hi all,
> 
>    The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).
> 
>    I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
> postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
> efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.
> 
>    I have run into a problem where I need to write data into a 
> postgresql database and it is unbearably slow to do the task. I have 
> been reading (and will continue to read after sending this) what I can 
> find on the postgresql.org site and elsewhere that google points me but 
> so far my attempts to resolve the problem have in fact made it worse.
> 
>    Specs: I have Fedora Core 1 on a Pentium3 650MHz CPU with 448MB RAM 
> (it's a box make of parts) running in runlevel 3 with no X up.
> 
>    I have tried increasing the amount of swap space by passing:
> 
> echo 128000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/shmmax
> 
>    to the kernel and editing /var /lib/pgsql/data/postgresql.cong to have:
> 
> shared_buffers = 15200
> sort_mem = 32168

Those changes are unlikely to have been helpful; they probably made
things WAY worse.

You just asked to allocate 121MB of shared memory (NOT SWAP), and that
every time you initiate a sort, 256MB will be allocated to that.  Drop
shared buffers down to a couple thousand 8K blocks, at most.  The
default sort_mem was probably OK.

You're probably going to do well enough with:
   shared_buffers = 2000
   sort_mem = 4096

>    Before I started messing with things I record a directory with 2,490 
> files and folders (just the names, obviously!) in 23 seconds which was 
> not reasonable. When I tried to record a filesystem with 175,000 records 
> it took 32 minutes... Since I have started tweaking the same number of 
> records takes 35 seconds.

Some _BIG_ wins come from grouping changes together into a single
transaction.

Another big win comes in having an index on file_dir on file_src_uuid...

   create index fduuid on file_dir (file_src_uuid);

It's probably good to have the following index:

   create index fd_name_parent on file_dir (file_name, file_parent_dir);

If you're running a modern version of PostgreSQL, running pg_autovacuum
would solve the need to periodically run ANALYZE to keep table
statistics up to date, and to clean out dead tuples via VACUUM.  If
that's not readily available, it's a good idea to run VACUUM ANALYZE on
this table every few thousand updates, as your processing will be
generating lots of garbage, as well as changing the statistics.
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;;
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/postgresql.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord  #98. "If an attractive young couple enters
my realm,  I will carefully monitor  their activities. If  I find they
are  happy   and  affectionate,  I  will  ignore   them.   However  if
circumstance  have forced them  together against  their will  and they
spend  all their  time  bickering and  criticizing  each other  except
during the  intermittent occasions when  they are saving  each others'
lives  at  which point  there  are hints  of  sexual  tension, I  will
immediately order their execution." 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 02:04:40 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:04:40 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <1085530877.16695.16.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org> 
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com> <1085530877.16695.16.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <20040526020441.DAC0E3FEF@cbbrowne.com>

> On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 16:16, Madison Kelly wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> >    The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).
> > 
> >    I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
> > postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
> > efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> One thing which should help is to prepare your select/update/insert
> statements before even entering the function, then reusing them with
> different bound values.  (See the DBI documentation for more on bound
> values.) E.G.

No, it won't.  PostgreSQL does not yet support any sort of 'precompiled'
version of this.  The problem with _not_ re-evaluating the query each
time is that changing the parameters may significantly change the query
plan.

> This should not only help speed up your code (so that the statements
> aren't continually re-parsed) it should also reduce the risk of
> malformed SQL statements since bound parameters are automatically
> appropriately quoted and escaped.

The re-evaluation part I don't buy.  The quoting part is worth
something, though.

> Another thing to look at is if unnecessary string conversions are
> happening.  E.G. if the field file_sr_uuid is an int and your
> statements end up as "WHERE file_src_uuid='n'" there *may* be an
> unneeded string conversion happening and you should instead do "WHERE
> file_src_uuid=n".

That won't be an unnecessary string conversion.

There is a _necessary_ string conversion in transforming the string into
an integer.  

And up until version 7.5 (which is still very much in beta, now), there
is an advantage to keeping it as a string until the query parser gets to
it because there is the unfortunate possibility that the integer you
pass in might be of a type that does not match what is actually in the
field, and in that case, pre-7.5, it is possible for that to lead to the
optimizer not noticing a relevant index.
--
output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc")
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html
"So you don't  want  to hear about my  ideas  for Cliche  Programming?
(Basically, the  unit of abstraction   is a Stereotype;  instances  of
Stereotypes interact by exchanging Hype.)" -- Peter Lewerin
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 02:40:29 2004
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 22:40:29 -0400
Subject: which distro for multitrack sound?
In-Reply-To: <40B2E3AA.2030007-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net> <40B2E3AA.2030007@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <40B4039D.7020101@onlink.net>

David Colebatch wrote:

> Chris Aitken wrote:
>
>> The Foreplay:
>>
>> I want to record music in linux. I'm thinking of Audactiy because 
>> it's easy to get and looks like what I want ? a multitrack recorder.
>>
> You have got to check out http://www.agnula.org/index2_html

Thanks. I read a few pages at that site. Agnula's ReHMuDi looks like 
just the ticket! It looks like a friend on this list is mailing me a 
copy on CD. I might try DeMuDi. Debian scares me -- I have a stabel 
installation that someone did for me, but I tried to install it once and 
got hung at the sixth (or whichever) screen...

>
> I found it a few nights ago when I couldn't sleep and had the urge to 
> get back into Music. (Life here in Australia requires me to "branch" 
> out) ;)
>
> It's a Linux distro just for Music sequencing, recording etc. There 
> are two flavours, a RedHat one (for you) and Debian one (for me :) ) 
> I'm a huge Debian fan, so this is what I'll be testing out. It will 
> allow me to use apt-get to stay upto date with the latest packages

Tempting...

>> I have two pretty good systems:
>>
>> Compaq Deskpro EN
>>
> Go the Compaq... more RAM
>
> 
>
>> So, the first question I have is, which distribution? The second is, 
>> which PC I should use for this? It's been suggested that the P733 
>> will be faster than the Duron 800. And I do recall problems with the 
>> Duron hanging. 
>
>
> Well, I think I answered this one already. I mainly chose the Compaq 
> because you had more RAM in it.

Yeah, multitrack recording software will be hungry for RAM I imagine.

>
>> I haven't had that problem of late but then I have not been using it 
>> much. My only problem with using the P733 is that it has an onboard 
>> card *and* a sound card. So, I don't know which sound card is the 
>> ?active? one (if that is aconcept that applies) at any given time. I 
>> want to be able to leave my line, mic and speakers cables attached to 
>> one card (the SBL! 5.1) and know that that is the card that will 
>> record and play.
>
>
> This shouldn't be too much of a problem. You should also be able to 
> disable the onboard sound in the BIOS.

Oh. I think the guy that installed sarge beta tried that but I won't 
swear to it.

>
> 
>
[...]

Thanks again. I'm really looking forward to trying one or both of the 
Agnula OSs.

Chris

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 03:14:48 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:14:48 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <1085530877.16695.16.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com> <1085530877.16695.16.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <40B40BA8.5020004@alteeve.com>

Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 16:16, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Try doing this for all of your statements, even the ones which don't
> return anything (eg updates and inserts).
> 
> This should not only help speed up your code (so that the statements
> aren't continually re-parsed) it should also reduce the risk of
> malformed SQL statements since bound parameters are automatically
> appropriately quoted and escaped.
> 
> Also, when you're doing your timing, be sure to remove your print
> statements unless they're crucial to the functioning of the script. 
> Setting up the print statement and printing to a console is a slow
> operation.
> 
> Another thing to look at is if unnecessary string conversions are
> happening.  E.G. if the field file_sr_uuid is an int and your statements
> end up as "WHERE file_src_uuid='n'" there *may* be an unneeded string
> conversion happening and you should instead do "WHERE file_src_uuid=n".
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> Regards,

Hi,

   Preparing the UPDATE made a significant difference (down from a 
steady 41 sec. to 29 sec. on my test partition with 2384 files and 
directories) but the counter and INSERT didn't make it better or worse. 
So then, that is the first big performance change. Thank you! Still not 
even close to fast enough so I'm going back to do more testing... :)

   Oh, I am now running my tests with only a log entry every 500 passes 
and that is just so that I can be sure something is still happening. All 
the prints have also been commented out.

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 03:20:04 2004
From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:20:04 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3E1F3.2020301-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405251943.43759.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
 <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
 <200405251943.43759.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: 

The are some performance (and other) hints at:
http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=postgresql+maximum+record+size&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF
-8&selm=386A5BBD.71375361%40mascari.com&rnum=7
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 03:23:14 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:23:14 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <20040526014815.5A4853FEF-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com> <20040526014815.5A4853FEF@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40B40DA2.5030709@alteeve.com>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>   The intrepid "Asker of questions" is back (so sorry!).
>>
>>   I am hoping I can pick the brains of those of you here who play with 
>>postgresql a lot. Maybe you can help me configure the server to be more 
>>efficient or suggest a different way to approach my code.
>>
>>   I have run into a problem where I need to write data into a 
>>postgresql database and it is unbearably slow to do the task. I have 
>>been reading (and will continue to read after sending this) what I can 
>>find on the postgresql.org site and elsewhere that google points me but 
>>so far my attempts to resolve the problem have in fact made it worse.
>>
>>   Specs: I have Fedora Core 1 on a Pentium3 650MHz CPU with 448MB RAM 
>>(it's a box make of parts) running in runlevel 3 with no X up.
>>
>>   I have tried increasing the amount of swap space by passing:
>>
>>echo 128000000 > /proc/sys/kernel/shmmax
>>
>>   to the kernel and editing /var /lib/pgsql/data/postgresql.cong to have:
>>
>>shared_buffers = 15200
>>sort_mem = 32168
> 
> 
> Those changes are unlikely to have been helpful; they probably made
> things WAY worse.
> 
> You just asked to allocate 121MB of shared memory (NOT SWAP), and that
> every time you initiate a sort, 256MB will be allocated to that.  Drop
> shared buffers down to a couple thousand 8K blocks, at most.  The
> default sort_mem was probably OK.
> 
> You're probably going to do well enough with:
>    shared_buffers = 2000
>    sort_mem = 4096
> 
> 
>>   Before I started messing with things I record a directory with 2,490 
>>files and folders (just the names, obviously!) in 23 seconds which was 
>>not reasonable. When I tried to record a filesystem with 175,000 records 
>>it took 32 minutes... Since I have started tweaking the same number of 
>>records takes 35 seconds.
> 
> 
> Some _BIG_ wins come from grouping changes together into a single
> transaction.
> 
> Another big win comes in having an index on file_dir on file_src_uuid...
> 
>    create index fduuid on file_dir (file_src_uuid);
> 
> It's probably good to have the following index:
> 
>    create index fd_name_parent on file_dir (file_name, file_parent_dir);
> 
> If you're running a modern version of PostgreSQL, running pg_autovacuum
> would solve the need to periodically run ANALYZE to keep table
> statistics up to date, and to clean out dead tuples via VACUUM.  If
> that's not readily available, it's a good idea to run VACUUM ANALYZE on
> this table every few thousand updates, as your processing will be
> generating lots of garbage, as well as changing the statistics.

Hi,

   Wow, progress finally!!

   I edited the shared_buffers and sort_mem down to the values you 
recommended and that shaved the time down from 29 seconds to 27 seconds. 
After that I tried again to set 'autocommit = false' and this time it 
worked and shaved the time down more to 21 seconds! It is still far too 
slow but at least I am finally making headway thanks to all of you guys!!

   Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 03:25:54 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 23:25:54 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <20040526014815.5A4853FEF-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com> <20040526014815.5A4853FEF@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40B40E42.2070907@alteeve.com>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> If you're running a modern version of PostgreSQL, running pg_autovacuum
> would solve the need to periodically run ANALYZE to keep table
> statistics up to date, and to clean out dead tuples via VACUUM.  If
> that's not readily available, it's a good idea to run VACUUM ANALYZE on
> this table every few thousand updates, as your processing will be
> generating lots of garbage, as well as changing the statistics.

Woops, I meant to mention that a little earlier in the evening I in fact 
did set the database to VACUUM ANALYZE and that is what helped let me 
start properly benchmarking because my results finally became stable. I 
run it after it exists the subroutine that performs all of the 'ls' calls.

Madison

PS - Marcus and Stewart; Thank you for your tips, too! They require more 
reading so I will implement them tomorrow and report back on my results. :)

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue May 25 15:09:08 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 18:09:08 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Officially OT -> Re:My fiscal responcibility...
In-Reply-To: <20040525030058.GD28870-FexrNA+1sEo9RQMjcVF9lNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <40AFE410.8020208@rogers.com> 
 <40AFE997.1000003@alteeve.com> <40B00020.3020707@rogers.com>
  <40B01294.10209@rogers.com>
  <20040525030058.GD28870@lupus.perlwolf.com>
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 24 May 2004, John Macdonald wrote:

> There are known limits on science and the degree to which
> it can be complete and/or perfectly accurate.  That does
> not make the quest to explain, or to test the quality of
> an explanation pointless.
>
> As an analogy:
>
>     With sophistry and hair-splitting, you can show
>     that almost any statement is not fully correct.
>     That neither shows that all statements are false,
>     nor does it mean that there is no point in trying to
>     tell the truth.

Correct. You can, however, decrease the signal/noise ratio by contributing
a worthless analysis to the body of known facts. But, you are working in
the direction desired by nature, since while you contribute this you
contribute to the increase of entropy of the universe ;-) ;-) (just
kidding).

I am not in a mood for philosophy, but I do consider the current (?) set
of scientific 'axioms' as being the dogma that most rapidly and usefully
leads to results when properly applied. And nothing more than that. Iow,
one should not worship the monkey wrench imho. It's just a tool and it
will rust eventually.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 01:14:20 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Tue, 25 May 2004 21:14:20 -0400
Subject: Postgres/Perl performance help needed
In-Reply-To: <40B3E5F3.4070303-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B3A997.8020407@alteeve.com>
	 <1085530877.16695.16.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	 <40B3E5F3.4070303@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1085534059.16695.22.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Tue, 2004-05-25 at 20:33, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Thanks! I will implement your suggestions now and report back. On the 
> string convertion thing, I single-quoted any string where the value 
> would be alph-numeric in some form and left ones that are integers (ie: 
> file_size) alone. Is that what you mean by avoiding string convertions?

Yup, that's exactly what I meant, although if you use binding, it will
quote and escape appropriately based on context.  At least, that's
according to the docs.  I haven't fully tested how smart it is about
these things.

Good luck.

Regards,
-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 15:24:13 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 11:24:13 -0400
Subject: which distro for multitrack sound?
In-Reply-To: <40B4039D.7020101-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net> <40B2E3AA.2030007@dingodave.cjb.net> <40B4039D.7020101@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20040526152413.GN9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, May 25, 2004 at 10:40:29PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote:
> David Colebatch wrote:
> 
> >Chris Aitken wrote:
> >
> >>The Foreplay:
> >>
> >>I want to record music in linux. I'm thinking of Audactiy because 
> >>it's easy to get and looks like what I want ? a multitrack recorder.
> >>
> >You have got to check out http://www.agnula.org/index2_html
> 
> Thanks. I read a few pages at that site. Agnula's ReHMuDi looks like 
> just the ticket! It looks like a friend on this list is mailing me a 
> copy on CD. I might try DeMuDi. Debian scares me -- I have a stabel 
> installation that someone did for me, but I tried to install it once and 
> got hung at the sixth (or whichever) screen...

I thought DeMuDi was Debian Music Distribution?  I thought it had died
out again having not heard of it in a long time.

The 2.6 kernels in debian testing are pretty low latancy too, and
probably have better support than the low latency patches.

> >This shouldn't be too much of a problem. You should also be able to 
> >disable the onboard sound in the BIOS.
> 
> Oh. I think the guy that installed sarge beta tried that but I won't 
> swear to it.

There was no reason to.  ALSA happily runs both, in this case with the
SB as the primary card.

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Wed May 26 22:44:52 2004
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 08:44:52 +1000
Subject: which distro for multitrack sound?
In-Reply-To: <20040526152413.GN9500-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B2B508.3060604@onlink.net> <40B2E3AA.2030007@dingodave.cjb.net> <40B4039D.7020101@onlink.net> <20040526152413.GN9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <40B51DE4.7070108@dingodave.cjb.net>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

>On Tue, May 25, 2004 at 10:40:29PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote:
>  
>
>>Thanks. I read a few pages at that site. Agnula's ReHMuDi looks like 
>>just the ticket! It looks like a friend on this list is mailing me a 
>>copy on CD. I might try DeMuDi. Debian scares me -- I have a stabel 
>>installation that someone did for me, but I tried to install it once and 
>>got hung at the sixth (or whichever) screen...
>>    
>>
>
>I thought DeMuDi was Debian Music Distribution?  I thought it had died
>out again having not heard of it in a long time.
>
>  
>
Certainly there hasn't been an installer built for v1.1.0, but 
devlopment seems to be alive and well for its constituent packages. 
Plus, being debian based, you can start with a Woody base install, then 
using apt-get, install all the packages required for DeMuDi, using a 
DeMuDi repository. (There's a guide here: 
http://www.agnula.org/download/demudi/demudi_1_1_0_apt )

>The 2.6 kernels in debian testing are pretty low latancy too, and
>probably have better support than the low latency patches.
>
>  
>
I know my sound card on this laptop sounds _much_ better using ALSA 
under 2.6.6. This is my first 2.6 kernel, and I love it :)

-David
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 00:51:56 2004
From: tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org (tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 20:51:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
Message-ID: 

Hi Toronto,

This is commercial but also Tux related.

Having seen many Mac stickers on car's bumber, I thought that I could, me
too, show what my colors are on my car.

I searched on the internet to find a Tux sticker, this sympathetic
antarctic animal. I was amazed and a bit sad when I discovered that such a
thing doesn't exist. I then told myself: I will do one!

My car is right now with a beautiful Tux sticker and everyone knows what
my OS is. And I am proud to tell that I can offer it to all the community
at:  
http://tuxsticker.ptaff.ca/

And yes, it is a Canadian product.

Miguel Tremblay

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 04:14:24 2004
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 21:14:24 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20040527041424.30205.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com>

Do you have them in stock?
How long after you get the paypal confirmation do you ship?
How do you ship?

--- tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org wrote:
> Hi Toronto,
> 
> This is commercial but also Tux related.
> 
> Having seen many Mac stickers on car's bumber, I thought that I could, me
> too, show what my colors are on my car.
> 
> I searched on the internet to find a Tux sticker, this sympathetic
> antarctic animal. I was amazed and a bit sad when I discovered that such a
> thing doesn't exist. I then told myself: I will do one!
> 
> My car is right now with a beautiful Tux sticker and everyone knows what
> my OS is. And I am proud to tell that I can offer it to all the community
> at:  
> http://tuxsticker.ptaff.ca/
> 
> And yes, it is a Canadian product.
> 
> Miguel Tremblay
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 08:53:31 2004
From: tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org (tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 04:53:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040527041424.30205.qmail-y3p24tX8tiqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040527041424.30205.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

Yes I have them in stock.

I usually ship one or two days after I received the order.

I ship by standard mail service (Poste Canada).  Count two to three days 
before receiving it if you are in Ontario.

Miguel Tremblay

On Wed, 26 May 2004, Mel Seder wrote:

> Do you have them in stock?
> How long after you get the paypal confirmation do you ship?
> How do you ship?
> 
> --- tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Hi Toronto,
> > 
> > This is commercial but also Tux related.
> > 
> > Having seen many Mac stickers on car's bumber, I thought that I could, me
> > too, show what my colors are on my car.
> > 
> > I searched on the internet to find a Tux sticker, this sympathetic
> > antarctic animal. I was amazed and a bit sad when I discovered that such a
> > thing doesn't exist. I then told myself: I will do one!
> > 
> > My car is right now with a beautiful Tux sticker and everyone knows what
> > my OS is. And I am proud to tell that I can offer it to all the community
> > at:  
> > http://tuxsticker.ptaff.ca/
> > 
> > And yes, it is a Canadian product.
> > 
> > Miguel Tremblay
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> =====
> The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
> absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

-- 
Amateur de Tux?
http://tuxsticker.ptaff.ca/

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 13:49:52 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 09:49:52 -0400
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <200405270949.53165.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Wednesday 26 May 2004 20:51, tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org wrote:

> This is commercial but also Tux related.

It's spam and shouldn't be posted to this mailing list, if it were allowed 
then this list would be nothing more than a bunch of people peddling their 
wares and services.  See http://tlug.linux.ca/faq.shtml#14 for clarification.

While it is quite enterprising of you to spam a bunch of LUG mailing lists in 
Canada (perhaps even wider afield?) you can count on me not buying a single 
sticker from you.  Unfortunately spam works whether your selling Linux logos 
or viagra so I'm sure you'll get some buyers.
-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 15:23:43 2004
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 11:23:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <200405270949.53165.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: 
 <200405270949.53165.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 May 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> While it is quite enterprising of you to spam a bunch of LUG mailing lists in
> Canada (perhaps even wider afield?) you can count on me not buying a single

HUMBUG (Brisbane, Australia) received the same email.

The problem I have with the whole thing is the gentleman starts out by
saying that no Tux/Linux stickers exist.  This is not true.  Linux
stickers have been around for years as evidenced by the I  Linux
sticker my car in Australia still has.  I recently got a sticker from
Linux Journal as well.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 17:10:10 2004
From: tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org (tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:10:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
 <200405270949.53165.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
 
Message-ID: 

I think I must tell a little bit of my story.

I first send a post to the LUG of Qu?bec (http://www.linux-quebec.org/),
since I live there, where it is written
(http://www.linux-quebec.org/mailman/listinfo/annonces)  that a commercial
announce can be send if the word "COMMERCIAL" is written in the subject.

Following that post, someone put a story on several websites about 
"Linuxien-ienne, show your colors".  That brings me a lot of traffic on my 
website.

Based on this experience, I started to post on differents LUG across the 
world, being afraid of what it is happening right now on this lug: being 
taxed of doing spam.

After a while, no one protested about my posts, so I continued to post on 
other LUG.

However, it is true that it is written onto your policy that " We condemn 
any unsolicited form of advertising. "  That is my mistake.  I should have 
read this before any post.  From now on, I will read it before any post in 
a lug.

Please accept my apologies,

Miguel Tremblay

P.S. It is also right that I wrote "such a thing does'nt exists".  This is 
not true, I should have said that I found no one on the Internet.

On Thu, 27 May 2004, Robert Brockway wrote:

> On Thu, 27 May 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> 
> > While it is quite enterprising of you to spam a bunch of LUG mailing lists in
> > Canada (perhaps even wider afield?) you can count on me not buying a single
> 
> HUMBUG (Brisbane, Australia) received the same email.
> 
> The problem I have with the whole thing is the gentleman starts out by
> saying that no Tux/Linux stickers exist.  This is not true.  Linux
> stickers have been around for years as evidenced by the I  Linux
> sticker my car in Australia still has.  I recently got a sticker from
> Linux Journal as well.
> 
> Rob
> 
> 

-- 
Amateur de Tux?
http://tuxsticker.ptaff.ca/

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 17:26:10 2004
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 13:26:10 -0400
Subject: FC2 POP3 ??!?!
Message-ID: <40B624B2.9020505@alteeve.com>

Has anyone gotten pop3 access working on FC2?

I originally installed the cyrus-imapd, but couldn't get it to authenticate.

Did some looking and found that the FC site says that dovecot replaces 
imapd. Unfortunately, with that I can't even connect.

I've gone back to cyrus, checked imapd.conf and everything looks good,
as per the cyrus-imap website, but I still can not login to my mail.

Any clues appreciated

Lance

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 19:18:10 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:18:10 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
Message-ID: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up 
when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. Realising 
this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and instead use 
"BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE section. The 
problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl throws an empty 
error (generic software error) whenever this call is made 
($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).

   If I go directly into postgres and issue the same command it works 
fine. I've looked at the O'Reilley "Programming the Perl DBI" book and 
it has stuff on autocommit but it either doesn't say what I am supposed 
to do or I am too daft/tired to get it. Has anyone run into this before? 
Since turning autocommit back off my test submit of ~2,400 entires has 
gone up from ~21 seconds to ~99 seconds... That is a frustrating 
development, too say the least.

   Thank you all again!

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 22:05:20 2004
From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 18:05:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20040527220520.18678.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com>

All,
 
I think that it is not a good way to forbid sending commercial email to LUG. Because some of these commercial email may be useful for us.
 
My suggestion is that we may need to create a new email list which is used for exchanging commercial information among members. such as exchange used computers or compents. If everybody agree, I would like to do it .
 
Best regards!
Louie


tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org wrote:
I think I must tell a little bit of my story.

I first send a post to the LUG of Qu??bec (http://www.linux-quebec.org/),
since I live there, where it is written
(http://www.linux-quebec.org/mailman/listinfo/annonces) that a commercial
announce can be send if the word "COMMERCIAL" is written in the subject.

Following that post, someone put a story on several websites about 
"Linuxien-ienne, show your colors". That brings me a lot of traffic on my 
website.

Based on this experience, I started to post on differents LUG across the 
world, being afraid of what it is happening right now on this lug: being 
taxed of doing spam.

After a while, no one protested about my posts, so I continued to post on 
other LUG.

However, it is true that it is written onto your policy that " We condemn 
any unsolicited form of advertising. " That is my mistake. I should have 
read this before any post. From now on, I will read it before any post in 
a lug.

Please accept my apologies,

Miguel Tremblay

P.S. It is also right that I wrote "such a thing does'nt exists". This is 
not true, I should have said that I found no one on the Internet.

On Thu, 27 May 2004, Robert Brockway wrote:

> On Thu, 27 May 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> 
> > While it is quite enterprising of you to spam a bunch of LUG mailing lists in
> > Canada (perhaps even wider afield?) you can count on me not buying a single
> 
> HUMBUG (Brisbane, Australia) received the same email.
> 
> The problem I have with the whole thing is the gentleman starts out by
> saying that no Tux/Linux stickers exist. This is not true. Linux
> stickers have been around for years as evidenced by the I Linux
> sticker my car in Australia still has. I recently got a sticker from
> Linux Journal as well.
> 
> Rob
> 
> 

-- 
Amateur de Tux?
http://tuxsticker.ptaff.ca/

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu May 27 22:23:21 2004
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 15:23:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040527220520.18678.qmail-L3xTA/E7k1uA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040527220520.18678.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040527222321.50924.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com>

I agree with Louie :-)

--- hui xu  wrote:
> All,
>  
> I think that it is not a good way to forbid sending commercial email to LUG.
> Because some of these commercial email may be useful for us.
>  
> My suggestion is that we may need to create a new email list which is used
> for exchanging commercial information among members. such as exchange used
> computers or compents. If everybody agree, I would like to do it .
>  
> Best regards!
> Louie
> 
> 
> tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org wrote:
> I think I must tell a little bit of my story.
> 
> I first send a post to the LUG of Qu??bec (http://www.linux-quebec.org/),
> since I live there, where it is written
> (http://www.linux-quebec.org/mailman/listinfo/annonces) that a commercial
> announce can be send if the word "COMMERCIAL" is written in the subject.
> 
> Following that post, someone put a story on several websites about 
> "Linuxien-ienne, show your colors". That brings me a lot of traffic on my 
> website.
> 
> Based on this experience, I started to post on differents LUG across the 
> world, being afraid of what it is happening right now on this lug: being 
> taxed of doing spam.
> 
> After a while, no one protested about my posts, so I continued to post on 
> other LUG.
> 
> However, it is true that it is written onto your policy that " We condemn 
> any unsolicited form of advertising. " That is my mistake. I should have 
> read this before any post. From now on, I will read it before any post in 
> a lug.
> 
> Please accept my apologies,
> 
> Miguel Tremblay
> 
> P.S. It is also right that I wrote "such a thing does'nt exists". This is 
> not true, I should have said that I found no one on the Internet.
> 
> On Thu, 27 May 2004, Robert Brockway wrote:
> 
> > On Thu, 27 May 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> > 
> > > While it is quite enterprising of you to spam a bunch of LUG mailing
> lists in
> > > Canada (perhaps even wider afield?) you can count on me not buying a
> single
> > 
> > HUMBUG (Brisbane, Australia) received the same email.
> > 
> > The problem I have with the whole thing is the gentleman starts out by
> > saying that no Tux/Linux stickers exist. This is not true. Linux
> > stickers have been around for years as evidenced by the I Linux
> > sticker my car in Australia still has. I recently got a sticker from
> > Linux Journal as well.
> > 
> > Rob
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Amateur de Tux?
> http://tuxsticker.ptaff.ca/
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
> 


=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 02:50:02 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 22:50:02 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40B63EF2.5000800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: 


On 27-May-04, at 15:18, Madison Kelly wrote:

>   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up 
> when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. 
> Realising this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and 
> instead use "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE 
> section. The problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl 
> throws an empty error (generic software error) whenever this call is 
> made ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
I have not done postgres , but in @ least one other DBMS you would not 
explicitly do ,
a BEGIN , only the COMMIT .

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 03:02:12 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:02:12 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40B63EF2.5000800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200405272302.12988.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Thursday 27 May 2004 15:18, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
>
>    I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up
> when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. Realising
> this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and instead use
> "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE section. The
> problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl throws an empty
> error (generic software error) whenever this call is made
> ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).

Perhaps these do the trick?

       $db->begin_work;
       $db->commit;
       $db->rollback;

Not sure since I'm no pgsql expert.

-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 03:02:55 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:02:55 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: 
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> 
Message-ID: <40B6ABDF.5070703@alteeve.com>

Lloyd Budd wrote:
> 
> On 27-May-04, at 15:18, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>>   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up 
>> when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. 
>> Realising this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and 
>> instead use "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE 
>> section. The problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl 
>> throws an empty error (generic software error) whenever this call is 
>> made ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
> 
> I have not done postgres , but in @ least one other DBMS you would not 
> explicitly do ,
> a BEGIN , only the COMMIT .

   Thanks for the reply!

   Humm, how do I stop the default behavior of committing automatically 
for this one batch then?

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 03:09:22 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 27 May 2004 23:09:22 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <200405272302.12988.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <200405272302.12988.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: <40B6AD62.2080408@alteeve.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Thursday 27 May 2004 15:18, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up
>>when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. Realising
>>this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and instead use
>>"BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE section. The
>>problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl throws an empty
>>error (generic software error) whenever this call is made
>>($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
> 
> 
> Perhaps these do the trick?
> 
>        $db->begin_work;
>        $db->commit;
>        $db->rollback;
> 
> Not sure since I'm no pgsql expert.

   Ohhh! Maybe that is what they were trying to say in the perl/DBI book 
that I wasn't getting. Thanks! I will try it in an hour or two once I 
finish this other part of the program I am fighting with :).

Madison

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 04:32:02 2004
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:32:02 -0400
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <40B6C0C2.4090205@sympatico.ca>

tlug.miguel-3KzNJp4Rz8A at public.gmane.org wrote:

>Hi Toronto,
>
>This is commercial but also Tux related.
>

    Although there has been some hullabaloo regarding the quasi-spam 
nature of this posting, I personally have no objections as it is well 
targetted and clearly labeled "commercial". In this case I'm happy to 
note the supply of something I could use.
    On the other hand, It would suck if TLUG became infested with full 
scale spam. Louie'sm suggestion was worth considering. At the end of the 
day, is there anything we could do about it anyway ? Moderation for the 
nation ?
djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 04:11:09 2004
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:11:09 -0400
Subject: Ont Education Ministry goes for Star Office
Message-ID: <20040528041109.GA5316@m450>

Quote...
> Schools at all levels have chosen the interoperable Star Office
> suite instead of more expensive office productivity products because
> they can re-invest saved funds into other projects for students,
> the ministry stated.

  For full story see...

> http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040527.gtsun0527/BNStory/Technology/

-- 
Walter Dnes 
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 04:38:23 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 00:38:23 -0400
Subject: Ont Education Ministry goes for Star Office
In-Reply-To: <20040528041109.GA5316-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528041109.GA5316@m450>
Message-ID: <20040528043823.GA1689@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 12:11:09AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> Quote...
> > Schools at all levels have chosen the interoperable Star Office
> > suite instead of more expensive office productivity products because
> > they can re-invest saved funds into other projects for students,
> > the ministry stated.
> 
>   For full story see...
> 
> > http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040527.gtsun0527/BNStory/Technology/

Good info.  Unfortunately, it doesn't say how much they paid.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
"Try rebooting three times." 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 10:47:44 2004
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 06:47:44 -0400
Subject: Ont Education Ministry goes for Star Office
In-Reply-To: <20040528043823.GA1689-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528041109.GA5316@m450> <20040528043823.GA1689@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <40B718D0.3050607@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:
> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 12:11:09AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
> 
>>Quote...
>>
>>>Schools at all levels have chosen the interoperable Star Office
>>>suite instead of more expensive office productivity products because
>>>they can re-invest saved funds into other projects for students,
>>>the ministry stated.
>>
>>  For full story see...
>>
>>
>>>http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040527.gtsun0527/BNStory/Technology/
> 
> 
> Good info.  Unfortunately, it doesn't say how much they paid.
> 

Probably a bit less than they would for MS Office.  I wonder why they 
didn't go for OpenOffice?

Hopefully they'll tell the kids about OO, so that they can install it on 
their home computers.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 13:54:14 2004
From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 09:54:14 -0400
Subject: testing open ports
Message-ID: <20040528135414.GB2368@smeagol>

Hi everyone,

I'm working on a web site that includes streamed rich media files. I need
a way to test to see which ports the user can access if they're behind a
firewall. I'm guess that I need to try and send them an object (a picture
maybe?) on one of the ports I need information about and then see if the
picture is received or not. This needs to test the user's open ports, not 
the server's though.

There must be some kind of script already written that can do this for me
(Perl package, maybe?).

Any suggestions would be appreciated,
emma

-- 
Emma Jane Hogbin
[[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 14:00:36 2004
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:00:36 -0400
Subject: testing open ports
Message-ID: 


I would suggest you use nmap or nmapfe (for a x gui). You then enter the ip 
of the host you want to scan for open ports. Hope this helps!

Martin



Hi everyone,

I'm working on a web site that includes streamed rich media files. I need
a way to test to see which ports the user can access if they're behind a
firewall. I'm guess that I need to try and send them an object (a picture
maybe?) on one of the ports I need information about and then see if the
picture is received or not. This needs to test the user's open ports, not
the server's though.

There must be some kind of script already written that can do this for me
(Perl package, maybe?).

Any suggestions would be appreciated,
emma

--
Emma Jane Hogbin
[[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 14:03:26 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 10:03:26 -0400
Subject: testing open ports
In-Reply-To: <20040528135414.GB2368-Kz9ENIl45+A@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528135414.GB2368@smeagol>
Message-ID: <200405281003.26517.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Friday 28 May 2004 09:54, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:

> I'm working on a web site that includes streamed rich media files. I need
> a way to test to see which ports the user can access if they're behind a
> firewall.

Can you not stream your files from port 80?

-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 15:14:18 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:14:18 -0400
Subject: testing open ports
In-Reply-To: <20040528135414.GB2368-Kz9ENIl45+A@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528135414.GB2368@smeagol>
Message-ID: <20040528151418.GA1496@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 09:54:14AM -0400, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> I'm working on a web site that includes streamed rich media files. I need
> a way to test to see which ports the user can access if they're behind a
> firewall. I'm guess that I need to try and send them an object (a picture
> maybe?) on one of the ports I need information about and then see if the
> picture is received or not. This needs to test the user's open ports, not 
> the server's though.
> 
> There must be some kind of script already written that can do this for me
> (Perl package, maybe?).
> 
> Any suggestions would be appreciated,
> emma

Usual tool is 'nmap'.  Why not have the user enter the port info on the
webpage?  Or, send back to the port they connected from, like usual?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Linux, Bash, Vim, TeX/LaTeX, Python, Mozilla, OpenOffice, Thin-Client
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 15:31:04 2004
From: ivan.frey-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Ivan Avery Frey)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:31:04 -0400
Subject: testing open ports
In-Reply-To: <200405281003.26517.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528135414.GB2368@smeagol> <200405281003.26517.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: <40B75B38.1090700@utoronto.ca>

Most firewalls do not block incoming server replies. They tend to block 
incoming client requests.

Be that as it may one way the test a website for clients who are behind 
a firewall is to set one up yourself.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 15:28:51 2004
From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 11:28:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040527220520.18678.qmail-L3xTA/E7k1uA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040527220520.18678.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: 

On Thu, 27 May 2004, hui xu wrote:
> I think that it is not a good way to forbid sending commercial email to
> LUG. Because some of these commercial email may be useful for us.
> My suggestion is that we may need to create a new email list which is
> used for exchanging commercial information among members. such as
> exchange used computers or compents. If everybody agree, I would like to
> do it .

My two cents' worth:

Or, if not a commercial mailing list, how about a page or two on the TLUG
web site?

I agree that too many business interests "hawking their wares" on this
list would drive too many people away.  I can also accept the idea that
allowing one would just be opening the floodgates.

Then again, providing a forum for linux oriented businesses would be the
sort of thing a LUG would want to do, wouldn't it?

Okay, that was only one cent's worth.  Here's your change. :)

JV
--
What's a sig?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 16:40:08 2004
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 12:40:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: 
References: <20040527220520.18678.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com>
 
Message-ID: 

On Fri, 28 May 2004, John Vetterli wrote:

> I agree that too many business interests "hawking their wares" on this
> list would drive too many people away.  I can also accept the idea that
> allowing one would just be opening the floodgates.

This is my fear.

> Then again, providing a forum for linux oriented businesses would be the
> sort of thing a LUG would want to do, wouldn't it?

For sure.  The convention followed by other LUGs I've been involved with
is for the person wanting to make a commercial post to seek the blessing
of the club executive or an authorised officer before doing so.

One easy way to do this is to have a moderated list which is subscribed to
the main list.  Commercial posts are sent to the moderated list.  The club
needs to be prepared to review moderated posts in a timely manner.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 18:38:27 2004
From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:38:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>

All,
 
Another way to do it is to create a BBS website. So the person who want to sell and buy stuff can go to that web to post and searching for the stuff they need. By this way, Our members do not  warry about recieving lots of commercial emails. But we need one person to take care of that websit. I am interesting to do that if the way is acceptable.
 
Best regards!
Louie
 


Robert Brockway  wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2004, John Vetterli wrote:

> I agree that too many business interests "hawking their wares" on this
> list would drive too many people away. I can also accept the idea that
> allowing one would just be opening the floodgates.

This is my fear.

> Then again, providing a forum for linux oriented businesses would be the
> sort of thing a LUG would want to do, wouldn't it?

For sure. The convention followed by other LUGs I've been involved with
is for the person wanting to make a commercial post to seek the blessing
of the club executive or an authorised officer before doing so.

One easy way to do this is to have a moderated list which is subscribed to
the main list. Commercial posts are sent to the moderated list. The club
needs to be prepared to review moderated posts in a timely manner.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 18:48:48 2004
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 14:48:48 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
Message-ID: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com>

I have a server running Postfix mail.

The strange thing is, all mail is entering the system, and acumulating 
in the mail que. Not being delivered to the mailboxes of the users.

I am stumped by this.

I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I 
coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often 
heard postfix was easier to configure.

Now I'm stuck,

It's an FC2 instilation, system-switch-mail used to do the initial switch.

Any hints apreciated.

Lance

P.S. Previous problem solved by installing imapd from CF1.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 19:13:22 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:13:22 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <40B78990.7000005-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 02:48:48PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote:
> I have a server running Postfix mail.
> 
> The strange thing is, all mail is entering the system, and acumulating 
> in the mail que. Not being delivered to the mailboxes of the users.
> 
> I am stumped by this.
> 
> I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I 
> coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often 
> heard postfix was easier to configure.

Now you know.  Switch back.

> 
> Now I'm stuck,
> 
> It's an FC2 instilation, system-switch-mail used to do the initial switch.
> 
> Any hints apreciated.
> 
> Lance
> 
> P.S. Previous problem solved by installing imapd from CF1.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Linux, Bash, Vim, TeX/LaTeX, Python, Mozilla, OpenOffice, Thin-Client
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 19:21:23 2004
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:21:23 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6AF7@lynchmail2.lynch.msft>

How did you set up Postfix?

Did you use Aliases for local users?

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of William Park
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 3:13 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Fouled-up smtp...

On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 02:48:48PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote:
> I have a server running Postfix mail.
> 
> The strange thing is, all mail is entering the system, and acumulating 
> in the mail que. Not being delivered to the mailboxes of the users.
> 
> I am stumped by this.
> 
> I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I 
> coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often 
> heard postfix was easier to configure.

Now you know.  Switch back.

> 
> Now I'm stuck,
> 
> It's an FC2 instilation, system-switch-mail used to do the initial switch.
> 
> Any hints apreciated.
> 
> Lance
> 
> P.S. Previous problem solved by installing imapd from CF1.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Linux, Bash, Vim, TeX/LaTeX, Python, Mozilla, OpenOffice, Thin-Client
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 19:28:26 2004
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:28:26 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040528191322.GA364-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <40B792DA.1030007@alteeve.com>

William Park wrote:

> Now you know.  Switch back.
> 

I've attempted that, to no avail. :(

Lance

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 19:47:20 2004
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:47:20 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6AF7-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6AF7@lynchmail2.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <40B79748.6040601@alteeve.com>

Wil McGilvery wrote:
> How did you set up Postfix?
> 

Installed rpm from/with apt-get.
ran system-swap-mail

> Did you use Aliases for local users?
> 

Presumed system-swap-mail would.....

Lance

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 19:18:42 2004
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:18:42 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040528191322.GA364-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: 

> On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 02:48:48PM -0400, Lance F. Squire wrote:
> > I have a server running Postfix mail.
> >
> > The strange thing is, all mail is entering the system, and acumulating
> > in the mail que. Not being delivered to the mailboxes of the users.
> >
> > Any hints apreciated.

Do the postfix logs give any useful hints?

I believe that one of the postfix binaries needs to be suid root so that
it can switch user and write to the user's mailbox.  Did you check the
suid bit for the appropriate binary?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 20:17:26 2004
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:17:26 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net> 
Message-ID: <40B79E56.6040805@alteeve.com>

Jing Su wrote:
> 
> Do the postfix logs give any useful hints?
> 

Doh!

Couldn't find any postfix logs, checked maillog just incase...

Seems postfix is trying to deliver to cyrus who isn't there anymore...

Will see if I can figure out where in main.cf or master.cf to fix this.

Lance

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 20:42:07 2004
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 16:42:07 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp... NO MORE!!! :)
In-Reply-To: <40B79E56.6040805-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>  <40B79E56.6040805@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40B7A41F.6070706@alteeve.com>

Once I figured out that postfix was trying to send mail to cyrus (who I 
removed yesterday) some poking around in the main.cf produced much 
wanted results!

Thanks for the help.

Lance

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 22:03:46 2004
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:03:46 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040528183827.98264.qmail-suq7OccGe6uA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20040528220346.68349.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com>


--- hui xu  wrote:
> All,
>  
> Another way to do it is to create a BBS website. So the person who want to
> sell and buy stuff can go to that web to post and searching for the stuff
> they need. By this way, Our members do not  warry about recieving lots of
> commercial emails. But we need one person to take care of that websit. I am
> interesting to do that if the way is acceptable.


I think that is the best idea so far.  I don't think tlug adding a line to each
message about a buy/sell site would be offensive to many people.



>  
> Best regards!
> Louie


=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 22:43:32 2004
From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 18:43:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <20040528220346.68349.qmail-y3p24tX8tiqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
    <20040528220346.68349.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54>

Rather than creating a new website, wouldn't it be easier to use the
computers section of toronto.craigslist.org?

Cheers,
Noah

On Fri, May 28, 2004 6:03 pm, Mel Seder said:
>
> --- hui xu  wrote:
>> All,
>>
>> Another way to do it is to create a BBS website. So the person who want
>> to
>> sell and buy stuff can go to that web to post and searching for the
>> stuff
>> they need.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 23:54:35 2004
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:54:35 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
Message-ID: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca>

>
>
>Good info.  Unfortunately, it doesn't say how much they paid.
>
The Sun site states that the licencing fee is $25 a head for deployments of 10,000 users or more, but it also states that for educational purposes there are no licence fees and that the costs are limited to that of the media and shipping. Either way  its substantially less than what Microsoft or Corel would demand.

John


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 00:21:14 2004
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 17:21:14 -0700
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp>

Well, I am often surprized when I hear on a Linux list that it is good to
pay for software.

Isnt openOffice quite the same in functionality as starOffice? And even it
is not - could not students use it?

But the ministry would not feel serious if they decided that openOffice can
be used on 10,000 computers across Ontario. It would look quite silly if all
that was going to be for free, wouldnt it?

Besides, I never loved these Java-based products, taking unneccessary to
much resources (CPU and RAM). Upgrading these 10,000 computers so that they
can be used effectively with either starOffice or openoffice will cost much
more than any licences.

zb.

----- Original Message -----
From: "John McGregor" 
To: 
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2004 4:54 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: Re: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office


> >
> >
> >Good info.  Unfortunately, it doesn't say how much they paid.
> >
> The Sun site states that the licencing fee is $25 a head for deployments
of 10,000 users or more, but it also states that for educational purposes
there are no licence fees and that the costs are limited to that of the
media and shipping. Either way  its substantially less than what Microsoft
or Corel would demand.
>
> John
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 00:50:18 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 20:50:18 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
In-Reply-To: <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a-8ayaThddFlg@public.gmane.org> 
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca> <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp>
Message-ID: <20040529005019.919843FF3@cbbrowne.com>

> Well, I am often surprized when I hear on a Linux list that it is good to
> pay for software.
> 
> Isnt openOffice quite the same in functionality as starOffice? And even it
> is not - could not students use it?

The thing that StarOffice comes with that OpenOffice.org does not is a
rich set of "document templates."  That has some degree of, oh, call it
"artistic merit."  And it is of some value.

> But the ministry would not feel serious if they decided that openOffice can
> be used on 10,000 computers across Ontario. It would look quite silly if all
> that was going to be for free, wouldnt it?
> 
> Besides, I never loved these Java-based products, taking unneccessary
> to much resources (CPU and RAM). Upgrading these 10,000 computers so
> that they can be used effectively with either starOffice or openoffice
> will cost much more than any licences.

Hm???  StarOffice and OpenOffice.org are written in C++, not Java.

They may represent bloated C++, but then you should accuse them of being
crummy due to C++, not Java.
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc"))
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/finances.html
1.79E12 furlongs/fortnight -- it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 19:20:10 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 15:20:10 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <40B78990.7000005-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1085772010.19346.0.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 14:48, Lance F. Squire wrote:
> I have a server running Postfix mail.
> 
> The strange thing is, all mail is entering the system, and acumulating 
> in the mail que. Not being delivered to the mailboxes of the users.
> 
> I am stumped by this.
> 
> I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I 
> coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often 
> heard postfix was easier to configure.
> 
> Now I'm stuck,
> 
> It's an FC2 instilation, system-switch-mail used to do the initial switch.
> 
> Any hints apreciated.
> 

Any interesting messages in /var/log/mail?  Without more info it's kinda
hard to help.

-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 02:47:21 2004
From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 19:47:21 -0700
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca> <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp> <20040529005019.919843FF3@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <000501c44527$447e1050$0b01010a@iyp>


> > Besides, I never loved these Java-based products, taking unneccessary
> > to much resources (CPU and RAM). Upgrading these 10,000 computers so
> > that they can be used effectively with either starOffice or openoffice
> > will cost much more than any licences.
>
> Hm???  StarOffice and OpenOffice.org are written in C++, not Java.
>
> They may represent bloated C++, but then you should accuse them of being
> crummy due to C++, not Java.

OK. Should I apologize to Sun?

Why then I always thought that this is Java? No problem. My ignorance, I
believe.

In any case: there is a problem.

I personally would love to use WordPerfect 5.2 (eventually, a version under
Linux) - it can load from floppies. But I have no copy of it.

>From another side: perhaps Ministry did want to create some jobs for that
jobless army of programmers around (of windows, of course).

zb.

> (reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc"))


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 02:53:31 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:53:31 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
In-Reply-To: <20040529005019.919843FF3-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca>
	 <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp>
	 <20040529005019.919843FF3@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <1085799211.20511.3.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 20:50, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Well, I am often surprized when I hear on a Linux list that it is good to
> > pay for software.
> > 
> > Isnt openOffice quite the same in functionality as starOffice? And even it
> > is not - could not students use it?
> 
> The thing that StarOffice comes with that OpenOffice.org does not is a
> rich set of "document templates."  That has some degree of, oh, call it
> "artistic merit."  And it is of some value.
> 

It also, I expect, comes with a level of support from Sun.  It also
likely comes with non-free fonts, maybe a clip-art gallery and probably
a few other bells and whistles.

> > But the ministry would not feel serious if they decided that openOffice can
> > be used on 10,000 computers across Ontario. It would look quite silly if all
> > that was going to be for free, wouldnt it?
> > 
> > Besides, I never loved these Java-based products, taking unneccessary
> > to much resources (CPU and RAM). Upgrading these 10,000 computers so
> > that they can be used effectively with either starOffice or openoffice
> > will cost much more than any licences.
> 
> Hm???  StarOffice and OpenOffice.org are written in C++, not Java.
> 
> They may represent bloated C++, but then you should accuse them of being
> crummy due to C++, not Java.

Indeed.  Although after experiencing how slow OO is, it's an
understandable mistake.  I'm moderately terrified to see how EI Office
is, being as it *is* written in Java.

Regards,
-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 02:59:17 2004
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 22:59:17 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
In-Reply-To: <000501c44527$447e1050$0b01010a-8ayaThddFlg@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca> <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp> <20040529005019.919843FF3@cbbrowne.com> <000501c44527$447e1050$0b01010a@iyp>
Message-ID: <40B7FC85.5010100@rogers.com>

Floppies? What are floppies? Is this a "grow your penis" joke?

My understanding is that StarOffice does have some features missing 
frrom OpenOffice, in particular some deealing with MS Office 
inter-operability. However, if you are installing 10,000 copies,  you 
may be more interested in support, quarantees, etc. $250,000 is probably 
a small fraction of the cost of supporting that many installations.

Tom

Zbigniew Koziol wrote:

>I personally would love to use WordPerfect 5.2 (eventually, a version under
>Linux) - it can load from floppies. But I have no copy of it.
>  
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri May 28 18:16:13 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 28 May 2004 21:16:13 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: testing open ports
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: 


This won't work. nmap will detect ports with existing servers, not ports
available for service.

I would suggest you look into how passive ftp works for clues on how to
get around this problem.

Peter

On Fri, 28 May 2004, Martin Duclos wrote:

>
> I would suggest you use nmap or nmapfe (for a x gui). You then enter the ip
> of the host you want to scan for open ports. Hope this helps!
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm working on a web site that includes streamed rich media files. I need
> a way to test to see which ports the user can access if they're behind a
> firewall. I'm guess that I need to try and send them an object (a picture
> maybe?) on one of the ports I need information about and then see if the
> picture is received or not. This needs to test the user's open ports, not
> the server's though.
>
> There must be some kind of script already written that can do this for me
> (Perl package, maybe?).
>
> Any suggestions would be appreciated,
> emma
>
> --
> Emma Jane Hogbin
> [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 18:09:54 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 21:09:54 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040528191322.GA364-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 28 May 2004, William Park wrote:

> > I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I
> > coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often
> > heard postfix was easier to configure.
>
> Now you know.  Switch back.

That is the best joke I heard this month. Suse and a couple other distros
come with Postfix MTA as default for a reason.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 18:10:48 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 21:10:48 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <40B792DA.1030007-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <40B792DA.1030007@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 28 May 2004, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> William Park wrote:
>
> > Now you know.  Switch back.
> >
>
> I've attempted that, to no avail. :(

What's your error. What does mailq say ? Did you properly uninstall
sendmail so the new sendmail (from postfix) is ok ?

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 18:24:55 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 14:24:55 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net> 
Message-ID: <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 09:09:54PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 28 May 2004, William Park wrote:
> 
> > > I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I
> > > coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often
> > > heard postfix was easier to configure.
> >
> > Now you know.  Switch back.
> 
> That is the best joke I heard this month. Suse and a couple other distros
> come with Postfix MTA as default for a reason.

Like?  Sendmail vs Postfix vs Qmail is like Vi(m) vs Emacs vs Pico.
I use Vi, and even my shell command line is vi-mode.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Slackware -- because I can type.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 19:00:58 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:00:58 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040529182455.GA318-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com>
	 <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 
	 <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1085857258.20511.9.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 14:24, William Park wrote:
> On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 09:09:54PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > 
> > On Fri, 28 May 2004, William Park wrote:
> > 
> > > > I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I
> > > > coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often
> > > > heard postfix was easier to configure.
> > >
> > > Now you know.  Switch back.
> > 
> > That is the best joke I heard this month. Suse and a couple other distros
> > come with Postfix MTA as default for a reason.
> 
> Like?  Sendmail vs Postfix vs Qmail is like Vi(m) vs Emacs vs Pico.

Definitely.  MTAs seems to be just about as contentious (amongst people
who care) as any of the holy wars.  For the most part I've found peoples
preferences to be based on what they learned first.  Perhaps the moral
is configuring MTAs is so painful you only want to learn to do it once
and refuse to believe that any other piece of software might have been
easier or better :)

That said, I do think that Sendmail is more intimidating to learn than
some of the other mailers.  Particularly if you don't know SMTP inside
and out when you start.  The Sendmail config file is just terrifying at
first look.

Regards,
-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 19:11:41 2004
From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 15:11:41 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <1085857258.20511.9.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com>
	 <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 
	 <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 <1085857258.20511.9.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <1085857899.23332.7.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 15:00, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 14:24, William Park wrote:
> > On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 09:09:54PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > 
> > > On Fri, 28 May 2004, William Park wrote:
> > > 
> > > > > I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I
> > > > > coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often
> > > > > heard postfix was easier to configure.
> > > >
> > > > Now you know.  Switch back.
> > > 
> > > That is the best joke I heard this month. Suse and a couple other distros
> > > come with Postfix MTA as default for a reason.
> > 
> > Like?  Sendmail vs Postfix vs Qmail is like Vi(m) vs Emacs vs Pico.
> 
> Definitely.  MTAs seems to be just about as contentious (amongst people
> who care) as any of the holy wars.  For the most part I've found peoples
> preferences to be based on what they learned first.  Perhaps the moral
> is configuring MTAs is so painful you only want to learn to do it once
> and refuse to believe that any other piece of software might have been
> easier or better :)
> 
> That said, I do think that Sendmail is more intimidating to learn than
> some of the other mailers.  Particularly if you don't know SMTP inside
> and out when you start.  The Sendmail config file is just terrifying at
> first look.
> 
> Regards,

I hadn't considered that as a "moral," but I suppose maybe it is - I'm
not sure I'd have the strength to go trying to set up anything other
than sendmail.

I once spent 2 days looking to find out why a configuration change
didn't work.  Eventually I remembered that the comments begin with dnl.
Lol.

-- 
Scott Elcomb
http://psema4.gotdns.com
https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/

PGP Public Key:
1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: 

From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 21:07:51 2004
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 17:07:51 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
In-Reply-To: <1085799211.20511.3.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040529005019.919843FF3@cbbrowne.com>
 <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca>
 <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp>
 <20040529005019.919843FF3@cbbrowne.com> <1085799211.20511.3.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040529170131.06f7c958@localhost>

At 10:53 PM 28/05/2004 -0400, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
>On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 20:50, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
[snip]
> > > Besides, I never loved these Java-based products, taking unneccessary
> > > to much resources (CPU and RAM). Upgrading these 10,000 computers so
> > > that they can be used effectively with either starOffice or openoffice
> > > will cost much more than any licences.
> >
> > Hm???  StarOffice and OpenOffice.org are written in C++, not Java.
> >
> > They may represent bloated C++, but then you should accuse them of being
> > crummy due to C++, not Java.
>
>Indeed.  Although after experiencing how slow OO is, it's an
>understandable mistake.  I'm moderately terrified to see how EI Office
>is, being as it *is* written in Java.

I realize the word "fast" is rarely used in the same sentence as OpenOffice 
but, I compiled OOo from source on Gentoo recently and it made a 
substantial difference in performance. I was running OOo 1.1.1 previously 
on Mandrake on this laptop. Now, I am running Gentoo with kernel 2.6.6 and 
OOo. The perceived speed of OOo is still slower then MS Office running on 
Windows on the same hardware but it is quite acceptable. Don't ask how long 
it took to compile but I didn't need the machine while it was busy anyway:) 
By the way, I am not using prelinking. That is supposed to make things 
faster for some apps, like OOo.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 22:30:51 2004
From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 18:30:51 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
In-Reply-To: <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a-8ayaThddFlg@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca> <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp>
Message-ID: <20040529223051.GC6409@socrates>

On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 05:21:14PM -0700, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:

> Well, I am often surprized when I hear on a Linux list that it is good to
> pay for software.

Being committed to open-source software does not mean that one is
committed to no-cost software. Free as in speech does not entail free as
in beer -- too bad!

Personally, I find that everything I need to do with a computer is
pretty well handled by no-cost open-source software. But I would be
happy to pay for the same open-source software if that were the only 
way to get it (while remaining open-source of course). If Linus asked
us all for $10 a year so he could keep doing things exactly as he does
them now, I'd send my money in tomorrow.

-- 
Peter King			 	peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
Department of Philosophy
215 Huron Street
The University of Toronto		    (416)-978-3788 ofc
Toronto, ON  M5S 1A1
       CANADA

http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/

=========================================================================
GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC  36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42)
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: Digital signature
URL: 

From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 22:52:52 2004
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 18:52:52 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
In-Reply-To: <20040529223051.GC6409-sKwiGYaqY94@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca> <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp> <20040529223051.GC6409@socrates>
Message-ID: <40B91444.4050001@sympatico.ca>

Peter King wrote:

>On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 05:21:14PM -0700, Zbigniew Koziol wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Well, I am often surprized when I hear on a Linux list that it is good to
>>pay for software.
>>    
>>
>
>Being committed to open-source software does not mean that one is
>committed to no-cost software. Free as in speech does not entail free as
>in beer -- too bad!
>
>Personally, I find that everything I need to do with a computer is
>pretty well handled by no-cost open-source software. But I would be
>happy to pay for the same open-source software if that were the only 
>way to get it (while remaining open-source of course). If Linus asked
>us all for $10 a year so he could keep doing things exactly as he does
>them now, I'd send my money in tomorrow.
>  
>
The ITBusiness article on this deal quoted a sun representative as 
saying that the licences were provided at "minimal" cost. It's possible 
the cost was well below the listed price on sun's web site.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 02:58:57 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 22:58:57 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040529182455.GA318-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>  <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20040530025857.GO9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 02:24:55PM -0400, William Park wrote:
> Like?  Sendmail vs Postfix vs Qmail is like Vi(m) vs Emacs vs Pico.
> I use Vi, and even my shell command line is vi-mode.

Pretty good analogy.  Not sure if vim or emacs is more cryptic (sendmail
certainly has a more cryptic config than postfix).  Qmail certainly has
similar license issues as pico in terms of how "free" it is considered
to be by some. :)

But what about exim? :)

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 03:01:50 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 23:01:50 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <1085857258.20511.9.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>  <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net> <1085857258.20511.9.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <20040530030150.GP9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 03:00:58PM -0400, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> Definitely.  MTAs seems to be just about as contentious (amongst people
> who care) as any of the holy wars.  For the most part I've found peoples
> preferences to be based on what they learned first.  Perhaps the moral
> is configuring MTAs is so painful you only want to learn to do it once
> and refuse to believe that any other piece of software might have been
> easier or better :)

I started with sendmail, and I hope to never use it again.  I also used
zmailer for a while, which was simpler to configure, and way faster, but
eventually dropped it due to too many security holes and went back to
sendmail hell for a bit.  Then I encountered exim, and loved it.  Hate
the docs (or lack there of) in exim3, but 4 seems better documented at
least.  Postfix looks nice, but I haven't had a reason to give up on
exim yet.

> That said, I do think that Sendmail is more intimidating to learn than
> some of the other mailers.  Particularly if you don't know SMTP inside
> and out when you start.  The Sendmail config file is just terrifying at
> first look.

Or the 1000th look.

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 03:05:35 2004
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 23:05:35 -0400
Subject: Ontario Education ministry buys Star Office
In-Reply-To: <1085799211.20511.3.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B7D13B.7010203@sympatico.ca> <000b01c44512$da90b120$0b01010a@iyp> <20040529005019.919843FF3@cbbrowne.com> <1085799211.20511.3.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <20040530030535.GQ9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 10:53:31PM -0400, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> Indeed.  Although after experiencing how slow OO is, it's an
> understandable mistake.  I'm moderately terrified to see how EI Office
> is, being as it *is* written in Java.

Well to me OO runs rather well, and seems much faster than MS office
ever was on this machine.  Of course I run with Debian's bery polished
build of OO, including using the prelink option, which seriously reduces
load time for launching OO.

Lennart Sorensen
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 03:31:53 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 23:31:53 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040530030150.GP9500-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com>
	 <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 
	 <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 <1085857258.20511.9.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	 <20040530030150.GP9500@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1085887913.20511.16.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Sat, 2004-05-29 at 23:01, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> I started with sendmail, and I hope to never use it again.  I also used
> zmailer for a while, which was simpler to configure, and way faster, but
> eventually dropped it due to too many security holes and went back to
> sendmail hell for a bit.  Then I encountered exim, and loved it.  Hate
> the docs (or lack there of) in exim3, but 4 seems better documented at
> least.  Postfix looks nice, but I haven't had a reason to give up on
> exim yet.

I looked at sendmail about 5 years ago for a while but after that didn't
have a need to work with mailers.  Then with a recent project I
(somewhat arbitrarily) chose Postfix and have been really quite happy
with it.  The configuration is intuitive and comprehensible and I enjoy
the power of the modularity.  Haven't really looked at exim at all,
though, as you put it, I haven't had a reason to give up Postfix yet.

Regards,
-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 05:13:46 2004
From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 01:13:46 -0400
Subject: Advocacy question
Message-ID: <1085894021.23332.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>

I'm just starting in the world of FOSS and advocacy, so I posted a poll
on the HLUG forums here:
http://hlug.mohawkc.on.ca/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=3

What's the "general opinion" on the state of advocacy in Ontario?

There hasn't really been much activity in the poll, so I thought posting
the question and link here might help.

(Advance apologies for any bad netiquette on my part; Until recently, I
haven't really been posting anywhere or very often)

-- 
Scott Elcomb
http://psema4.gotdns.com
https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/

PGP Public Key:
1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: 

From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 07:01:09 2004
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:01:09 +1000
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel-Y3r+xR8pFJWlUYFUHb6iJA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>    <20040528220346.68349.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54>
Message-ID: <40B986B5.8040008@dingodave.cjb.net>

Couldn't such a page at tlug's website also help to create a new revenue 
stream for tlug?  Paid advertisements etc. can work well, and since tlug 
would be in control, rather than a free-for-all, it could be controlled 
in such a way as not to deter people.

Just my 2 cents :)

-David

Noah John Gellner wrote:

>Rather than creating a new website, wouldn't it be easier to use the
>computers section of toronto.craigslist.org?
>
>Cheers,
>Noah
>
>On Fri, May 28, 2004 6:03 pm, Mel Seder said:
>  
>
>>--- hui xu  wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>All,
>>>
>>>Another way to do it is to create a BBS website. So the person who want
>>>to
>>>sell and buy stuff can go to that web to post and searching for the
>>>stuff
>>>they need.
>>>      
>>>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat May 29 18:15:15 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 29 May 2004 21:15:15 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <40B79E56.6040805-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
  <40B79E56.6040805@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: 


On Fri, 28 May 2004, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> Seems postfix is trying to deliver to cyrus who isn't there anymore...
>
> Will see if I can figure out where in main.cf or master.cf to fix this.

Who or what is cyrus. You can set up transports per destination and other
conditions. See /etc/posfix/transport and transport.db (and postmap
transport). Normal delivery to your upstream server should work without
this. In main.cf see esp. mydestination= mynetworks= default_transport=
and relayhost= as well as disable_dns_lookups if you have lookup issues.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 13:51:46 2004
From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 09:51:46 -0400
Subject: Reasons for running NT 4
In-Reply-To: <40B986B5.8040008-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54>
Message-ID: <40B9AEB2.17607.49CFB3@localhost>

I've posted a few now things on http://www.TorontoNUI.ca including Linuxworld, San 
Francisco in case your summer holiday plans are still open and Laura Chappell 
(Packet Level Security) who will be in Toronto in August. Below is a great article 
relating opportunities to replace NT 4 with Linux.
RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca


NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: DAVE KEARNS ON WINDOWS 
NETWORKING TIPS
05/17/04
Today's focus:  Your reasons for running NT 4 

In this issue:

* Readers give their top four reasons why they're sticking with 
??NT 4
* Links related to Windows Networking Tips
* Featured reader resource
_______________________________________________________________
This newsletter is sponsored by Novell 
You're Invited -- Free "Collaboration on Linux" Web Seminar 

See how fast, easy and cost-effective it is to deploy Novell 
GroupWise 6.5 for Linux, a complete end-to-end collaboration 
solution for Linux. 
Register today! Web "seating" is limited. 
http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=63055
_______________________________________________________________
CATCH UP ON THE LATEST FROM N+I 

Touted as one of the industry's most important shows in terms of 
announcements and goings-on in the networking world, N+I Vegas 
was the week of May 10th. Whether or not you made it out to 
Vegas, NW Fusion will give you the low-down on who did what and 
why. Check out all the N+I news reported by Network World at: 
http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=63023
_______________________________________________________________

Today's focus:  Your reasons for running NT 4 

By Dave Kearns

I asked you to write and let me know why you're still running NT 
4 servers, and write to me you did. Either everyone who reads 
this newsletter has an NT 4 server (or more - some of you have 
hundreds!) tucked up on the network, or the only people who read 
it are those with NT 4 servers. The outpouring of e-mail 
exceeded all but the time when I said Macintosh advertising was 
addlepated (see link below), but you know how those Mac fanatics 
can be.

I'd suggested that the reason people hadn't migrated off of NT 4 
was that they had applications and services running that 
couldn't work on Windows 2000 or 2003 servers. That's certainly 
true, as this was one of the top four reasons why people hadn't 
migrated. Surprisingly, though, it only came in at No. 3. We'll 
get to what beat it out in a second, but first a look at the No. 
4 reason.

Quite a few people are using NT 4 servers as basic "file & print" 
servers - no real applications or services running on them. 
Admittedly in some cases, it's because there's no Win 2000 
driver for the printer they're using, but for the most part 
folks simply don't care. Their file storage is adequate and 
their printing needs are being met.

The No. 3 reason, as I said, was a need to maintain NT 4 because 
of the requirements of some service or applications.

The No. 2 reason, though, surprised me. I'd thought it was an 
issue that had been overcome - at the latest - with the release 
of Windows Server 2003. But evidently, people are still rather 
leery of Active Directory.

As one wag put it: "The main reason we are resisting migrating 
is Active Directory (or as my comrades call it, 'Radio Active 
Directory')."

Active Directory, compared to NT 4 domains (and even to Novell's 
old NDS4NT directory service) is seen as a bloated, 
not-quite-up-to-standards, expense in terms of hardware needs, 
and is difficult to manage. I personally don't believe that's 
true. Although it does require an investment in hardware, it's 
the perception that's important when people are considering an 
upgrade.

The No. 1 reason why people have yet to migrate could be termed 
"the bottom line" - money, pure and simple. In general, Win 2000 
and Win 2003 require more hardware than NT 4.

Active Directory requires hardware, bandwidth and management 
expertise. Licensing, especially Client Access Licenses (CAL), 
is a major issue. In some cases, it's the absolute amount of 
money necessary but for many it's the marginal expense: the 
amount you're paying for the level of improvement you see.

As one correspondent put it, it's not that vendors haven't 
ported the applications to Win 2000, "...it's because all that 
they have done is migrate to it.  In other words, most 
application managers at my office don't want to spend the time 
and money nor take on the additional risk of an upgrade for the 
sake of an upgrade.  They want to give their users new functions 
or better performance or both." Why upgrade if all you 
accomplish is to enrich a few vendor salespeople?

There's also a strong undercurrent that I'm hearing and which I 
last heard when Novell was pushing people to get off of NetWare 
3.1x and upgrade to Version 5 or 6. Moving to Windows servers 
was seen by some as an alternative to upgrading NetWare. Now a 
number of you NT 4 users are saying that Linux (or Novell's Open 
Enterprise Server) might be the path you take should 
circumstances force you away from NT 4. 

What is NUI?
Novell Users International (NUI) has evolved from the need for IT professionals to 
have an organization that keeps them up to date on rapid technological advances. 
Your local chapter and the NUI virtual community offer educational, networking and 
social events that help its members manage their careers, reap the benefits that 
come with being a trained professional in this highly specialized and complex field 
and have a little fun too! While we support Novell products we welcome other 
vendors speakers and content.
NUI worldwide: http://www.nuinet.com
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 14:04:07 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 17:04:07 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040529182455.GA318-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
 
 <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: 


On Sat, 29 May 2004, William Park wrote:

> On Sat, May 29, 2004 at 09:09:54PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 28 May 2004, William Park wrote:
> >
> > > > I had originally switched the system from sendmail to postfix, as I
> > > > coulden't (apperently) get mail working with sendmail and I've often
> > > > heard postfix was easier to configure.
> > >
> > > Now you know.  Switch back.
> >
> > That is the best joke I heard this month. Suse and a couple other distros
> > come with Postfix MTA as default for a reason.
>
> Like?  Sendmail vs Postfix vs Qmail is like Vi(m) vs Emacs vs Pico.
> I use Vi, and even my shell command line is vi-mode.

I use vi too but that's not a good reason to enjoy $< $? $!@#@! $>
substitutions in sendmail.cf files. I played with this, it's bad imho.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 15:01:36 2004
From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:01:36 -0400
Subject: Reasons for running NT 4
In-Reply-To: <40B9AEB2.17607.49CFB3-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54>
	<40B9AEB2.17607.49CFB3@localhost>
Message-ID: <20040530110136.3dd3851a.rob@cheapersafer.com>

On Sun, 30 May 2004 09:51:46 -0400
"Rick Tomaschuk"  wrote:

> I've posted a few now things on http://www.TorontoNUI.ca including Linuxworld, San 
> Francisco in case your summer holiday plans are still open and Laura Chappell 
> (Packet Level Security) who will be in Toronto in August. Below is a great article 
> relating opportunities to replace NT 4 with Linux.
> RickT -- http://www.TorontoNUI.ca

I guess the support for NT is being extended, although this article doesn't 
mention it specifically:

http://www.techworld.com/opsys/news/index.cfm?newsid=1625

Anyone know for sure?

I threw a bunch of NT/Linux related links together when I was researching 
my LinuxWorld article, they're at:

http://www.memeshadow.net/twiki/bin/view/Main/NTToLinux

I'm interested - you consultants out there, what percentage of migrations
are you seeing as opposed to new installs? Is it going up?

Rob

-- 
Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org
Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 15:13:45 2004
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd Budd)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 11:13:45 -0400
Subject: Reasons for running NT 4
In-Reply-To: <40B9AEB2.17607.49CFB3-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54> <40B9AEB2.17607.49CFB3@localhost>
Message-ID: 


On 30-May-04, at 9:51, Rick Tomaschuk senta Novell commercial to TLUG .

Rick , it is ironic that you 'reply'd to a thread regarding this very 
topic .  As I have asked  previously please do not post content that 
includes SPAM to TLUG .

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 16:47:32 2004
From: rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 12:47:32 -0400
Subject: Fail-over not mission critical
In-Reply-To: 
References: 
Message-ID: <002a01c44665$cd51d530$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com>

Hello,

I am running a dns server, mail server, web server and Mailman on a
computer at my home with Istop as my provider to provide these services
for a non-profit. The load is very light and if things went down for a
day or so it would not be the end of the world. However, I have a backup
computer that I would like to set up to be a mirror of my main box so
that should a crash occur I could just start up the second box. 

The main computer is running RedHat Linux 9 updated, the backup machine
is 9 too but has not been updated and does not have Mailman installed. I
am wondering what approach some of you would take to create a backup
scenario for a situation like this. I have read about the rsync command
and this sounds perfect but I'm not sure if I'd have to get the backup
machine updated and installed with Mailman first or not. My preference
would be to just keep it as simple as possible. You all helped me set up
my dns service a few months back and everything has been working like a
charm ever since.

Thanks for any pointers,
Robert

Robert F. Kennedy
Toronto
Running services for www.shambhalatoronto.org

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Lloyd
Budd
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 11:14 AM
To: Rick Tomaschuk; tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Reasons for running NT 4 



On 30-May-04, at 9:51, Rick Tomaschuk senta Novell commercial to TLUG .

Rick , it is ironic that you 'reply'd to a thread regarding this very 
topic .  As I have asked  previously please do not post content that 
includes SPAM to TLUG .

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 17:01:24 2004
From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:01:24 -0400
Subject: Advocacy question
In-Reply-To: <1085894021.23332.21.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
References: <1085894021.23332.21.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1085936483.23332.26.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 01:13, Scott Elcomb wrote:
> I'm just starting in the world of FOSS and advocacy, so I posted a poll
> on the HLUG forums here:
> http://hlug.mohawkc.on.ca/phpBB2/viewforum.php?f=3
> 
> What's the "general opinion" on the state of advocacy in Ontario?
> 
> There hasn't really been much activity in the poll, so I thought posting
> the question and link here might help.
> 
> (Advance apologies for any bad netiquette on my part; Until recently, I
> haven't really been posting anywhere or very often)

Apologies, the poll at the above link was apparently retracted (I'm not
certain why - that poll is the reason why I intend to start attending
LUG meetings)

Anyway, the poll has been reposted on my forums below.  I'd really
appreciate hearing ideas from people about what they think the state of
advocacy is here in Ontario.

Regards,

-- 
Scott Elcomb
http://psema4.gotdns.com
https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/

PGP Public Key:
1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: 

From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 17:31:43 2004
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 13:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: infected list member
Message-ID: 

Looks like somebody on this list has got a virus infection...

I just got mail which claimed to be from tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org -- on inspection of
the headers, it was really from a *.cable.rogers.com address -- containing
a "forwarded" copy of a message I sent to the list a few months back, and
an attachment holding a Windows virus. 

So, if you're reading this list on a Windows machine (shame on you! :-)),
beware of attachments on anything that looks kind of like list mail.  The
viruses are getting smarter every week.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 19:33:48 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:33:48 -0400
Subject: Kinda Urgent (to me, anyway) -> Javascript, postgres and checkboxes...
 Last big hurdle
Message-ID: <40BA371C.5090004@alteeve.com>

Hi TLUG,

   I hope I don't sound or seem like I am asking you guys to write my 
program (I ask so many questions!). I am nearing the end though and this 
is my last big hurdle (I hope). The rest of the program I am pretty sure 
I know what to do.

   To reassure people that their help isn't for my benefit only; it 
looks like my boss will let me release this program initially under a 
split license where it will be free to home users and NFPs/NGOs and for 
a fee to commercial users until he recovers his costs in developing it 
then the program will be fully GPL'ed. A little more background so that 
what I am trying to do might be a bit clearer:

   The program "TLE-BU" (The Linux Experience - BackUp) is a backup 
program with a web-based front-end written in Perl and using a 
PostgresSQL database. The goal was to require no applets on the client 
computer nor be system-specific. It uses any partition that can be 
assigned a UUID, anything beyond that is transparent to the program (ie 
what filesystem, how it is physically connected and so forth). 
Specifically it has been designed with external USB2/Firewire hard 
drives in mind. Each partition that the program sees is recorded to the 
database (along with it's particulars). Then the user assigns a given 
partition as a source or a destination.

   Once a partition is assigned (lets say for now as a source) it's 
contents are recorded into the database as well. This is the step I was 
asking for performance help with, by the way. Once the contents are 
recorded (or previous entries for the partition updated) the contents 
are displayed in a framed window; summary at the top, directories on the 
left and files on the right. So far I record the display state of each 
directory using a 'file_display boolean' entry in the database. When the 
perl script goes to display the directory list it starts by looking for 
all directories which match the working UUID and whose parent is '/'. As 
it prints each directory it checks to see how many (if any at all) 
subdirectories exist for that directory and that have their display 
boolean set to true. If it finds one or more it displays it/them and 
performs the same checks recursively until eventually it falls back to 
where it left off and continues displaying the rest of the directories 
under '/'.

   The files in '/' are displayed initially. If the user clicks on a 
partition name the file frame is reloaded to show the contents of that 
directory which are found by querying the database for all files one the 
working partition's UUID and who have the parent directory passed when 
the directory name was clicked.

   Now my problem:

   Along side each directory and file is a checkbox that I have yet to 
make work and have been struggling with for the last two days. The idea 
is that when a checkbox for a directory is checked that automatically 
all sub directories and files will automatically become selected. Then 
(either at that moment or when the user clicks an "Update" button) the 
files that have been selected need to have their 'file_backup boolean' 
set to true so that when the backup is run on that given partition it 
will grab any directory or file which has been set to 'true' (plus any 
new files that have since been created that exist in a directory which 
has been selected). I need the reverse to occur, too. When a user 
unchecks a file or directory that file or that directory and all of it's 
subdirectories and folders need to be have their 'file_backup boolean' 
set to false.

   My reason for asking for such fundamental help is that I need to 
present a beta of this program on Wednesday... I have had to learn perl 
and postgres to get this far and I am simply not able (time wise or 
brain-power wise) to learn javascript with so little time left on my own.

   So if anyone out there with Javascript experience would be 
able/willing to help it would be a great favour to me!! I don't want the 
whole thing written for me, obviously. I just need a sample or a push in 
the right direction. I have never used Javascript before so I am really 
at square one here. Thanks in advance to -anyone- who can help!!

Madison

PS - When this is done I would love to announce it here for peer review. 
Would that be acceptable use of the list?
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 19:45:12 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:45:12 -0400
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: 
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>  <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net> 
Message-ID: <20040530194512.GA452@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 05:04:07PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > That is the best joke I heard this month. Suse and a couple other
> > > distros come with Postfix MTA as default for a reason.
> >
> > Like?  Sendmail vs Postfix vs Qmail is like Vi(m) vs Emacs vs Pico.
> > I use Vi, and even my shell command line is vi-mode.
> 
> I use vi too but that's not a good reason to enjoy $< $? $!@#@! $>
> substitutions in sendmail.cf files. I played with this, it's bad imho.

Granted.  But, you really don't need to play with .cf nowdays.  You
should configure Sendmail using .m4 as recommended/supported by
Sendmail.org.  The only raw .cf recipes that I have is to reject
Microsoft Swen emails, and even that is in my .m4 file.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Slackware -- because I can type.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 19:54:48 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 15:54:48 -0400
Subject: Fail-over not mission critical
In-Reply-To: <002a01c44665$cd51d530$1902a8c0-B7WYQ2cLakwWhyVFc8JwjA@public.gmane.org>
References:  <002a01c44665$cd51d530$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <20040530195448.GB452@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 12:47:32PM -0400, Robert F. Kennedy wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am running a dns server, mail server, web server and Mailman on a
> computer at my home with Istop as my provider to provide these services
> for a non-profit. The load is very light and if things went down for a
> day or so it would not be the end of the world. However, I have a backup
> computer that I would like to set up to be a mirror of my main box so
> that should a crash occur I could just start up the second box. 
> 
> The main computer is running RedHat Linux 9 updated, the backup machine
> is 9 too but has not been updated and does not have Mailman installed. I
> am wondering what approach some of you would take to create a backup
> scenario for a situation like this. I have read about the rsync command
> and this sounds perfect but I'm not sure if I'd have to get the backup
> machine updated and installed with Mailman first or not. My preference
> would be to just keep it as simple as possible. You all helped me set up
> my dns service a few months back and everything has been working like a
> charm ever since.

The simplest is to backup your harddisk.  When the computer fails
(usually due to harddisk failure), switch the disks, and reboot.  You
will start from when you made the backup.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Slackware -- because I can type.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 20:08:30 2004
From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 16:08:30 -0400
Subject: Fail-over not mission critical
In-Reply-To: <002a01c44665$cd51d530$1902a8c0-B7WYQ2cLakwWhyVFc8JwjA@public.gmane.org>
References: <002a01c44665$cd51d530$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <1085947708.23332.43.camel@localhost.localdomain>

On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 12:47, Robert F. Kennedy wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am running a dns server, mail server, web server and Mailman on a
> computer at my home with Istop as my provider to provide these services
> for a non-profit. The load is very light and if things went down for a
> day or so it would not be the end of the world. However, I have a backup
> computer that I would like to set up to be a mirror of my main box so
> that should a crash occur I could just start up the second box. 
> 
> The main computer is running RedHat Linux 9 updated, the backup machine
> is 9 too but has not been updated and does not have Mailman installed. I
> am wondering what approach some of you would take to create a backup
> scenario for a situation like this. I have read about the rsync command
> and this sounds perfect but I'm not sure if I'd have to get the backup
> machine updated and installed with Mailman first or not. My preference
> would be to just keep it as simple as possible. You all helped me set up
> my dns service a few months back and everything has been working like a
> charm ever since.
> 
> Thanks for any pointers,
> Robert
> 
> Robert F. Kennedy
> Toronto
> Running services for www.shambhalatoronto.org
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

Rsync can be a really handy utility, I used it to migrate about 1K users
to a new mail server a few months back and left me with a grand total
downtime of about 2 minutes.  :)

There are any number of tricks in O'Reilly's book "Linux Server Hacks,"
with one of the Rsync tricks available online here:
http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/38

Hope it helps.

-- 
Scott Elcomb
http://psema4.gotdns.com
https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/

PGP Public Key:
1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: 

From ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 19:53:30 2004
From: ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 19:53:30 +0000
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40B63EF2.5000800-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up when 
> I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. Realising this 
> I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and instead use 
> "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE section. The 
> problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl throws an empty 
> error (generic software error) whenever this call is made 
> ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
> 
>   If I go directly into postgres and issue the same command it works 
> fine. I've looked at the O'Reilley "Programming the Perl DBI" book and 
> it has stuff on autocommit but it either doesn't say what I am supposed 
> to do or I am too daft/tired to get it. Has anyone run into this before? 
> Since turning autocommit back off my test submit of ~2,400 entires has 
> gone up from ~21 seconds to ~99 seconds... That is a frustrating 
> development, too say the least.

Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is faster 
and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases like yours 
(I suppose that backup database is simple).

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 00:02:59 2004
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:02:59 -0400
Subject: Ont Education Ministry goes for Star Office
In-Reply-To: <40B718D0.3050607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528041109.GA5316@m450> <20040528043823.GA1689@node1.opengeometry.net> <40B718D0.3050607@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20040531000259.GA460@m450>

On Fri, May 28, 2004 at 06:47:44AM -0400, James Knott wrote

> >Good info.  Unfortunately, it doesn't say how much they paid.
> >
> 
> Probably a bit less than they would for MS Office.  I wonder why they 
> didn't go for OpenOffice?
> 
> Hopefully they'll tell the kids about OO, so that they can install it on 
> their home computers.

  StarOffice has support-from-a-known-large-company (warm-n-fuzzies for
an MBA PHB).  And I believe StarOffice also has a GUI database similar
to Access.  Is there a free/GPL/BSD/whatever program that compares ?

-- 
Walter Dnes 
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 00:09:45 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:09:45 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA3BBA.5040204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <40BA77C9.5040807@alteeve.com>

Ilya Palagin wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>>   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up 
>> when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. 
>> Realising this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and 
>> instead use "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE 
>> section. The problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl 
>> throws an empty error (generic software error) whenever this call is 
>> made ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
>>
>>   If I go directly into postgres and issue the same command it works 
>> fine. I've looked at the O'Reilley "Programming the Perl DBI" book and 
>> it has stuff on autocommit but it either doesn't say what I am 
>> supposed to do or I am too daft/tired to get it. Has anyone run into 
>> this before? Since turning autocommit back off my test submit of 
>> ~2,400 entires has gone up from ~21 seconds to ~99 seconds... That is 
>> a frustrating development, too say the least.
> 
> 
> Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is faster 
> and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases like yours 
> (I suppose that backup database is simple).

Fair question, and I don't know the answer :/. I chose PostgresSQL a 
while ago as my database of choice because I read of it's capabilities. 
Since then that is all I have used. Maybe when the deadline is passed I 
will try out MySQL and see how it compares.

For what it is worth, it looks like the first big user will have roughly 
5TB of data to backup and likely over a million files and directoried 
whose data needs to be saved, including unique records for what is on 
each piece of backup media. Is that "small"? (honest question). Thanks!!

Madison (Who is looking more and more like she is going to miss her 
deadline because of her lack of Javascript knowledge! >.< )
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 00:06:59 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:06:59 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA3BBA.5040204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20040531000659.GA498@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 07:53:30PM +0000, Ilya Palagin wrote:
> Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is faster 
> and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases like yours 
> (I suppose that backup database is simple).

Or, even regular text file.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Slackware -- because I can type.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 00:22:00 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 20:22:00 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <20040531000659.GA498-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com> <20040531000659.GA498@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <40BA7AA8.6000708@alteeve.com>

William Park wrote:
> On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 07:53:30PM +0000, Ilya Palagin wrote:
> 
>>Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is faster 
>>and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases like yours 
>>(I suppose that backup database is simple).
> 
> 
> Or, even regular text file.
> 

No, that I can safely say wouldn't be a good idea.

I started off recording partition information to raw text files and it 
was a nightmare keeping it straight. Switching to a database cut the 
number of line in half and made the program a lot more reliable. I am 
sure it made it slower though but the reliability was needed. Maybe a 
better programmer could make text files work (I am still pretty much a 
n00b, after all).

Madison
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 01:07:07 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:07:07 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA7AA8.6000708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <20040531000659.GA498@node1.opengeometry.net> <40BA7AA8.6000708@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200405302107.07464.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Sunday 30 May 2004 20:22, Madison Kelly wrote:

> I started off recording partition information to raw text files and it
> was a nightmare keeping it straight. Switching to a database cut the
> number of line in half and made the program a lot more reliable. I am

To get database like features (i.e. SQL) there's always sqlite, I expect you 
would have to make very few changes to your scripts to make it use sqllite 
backend.  sqlite just stores your data in a file (not plain text mind you).

As long as you don't use non-portable database features you should be able to 
switch from pgsql to mysql to sqlite to whatever fairly easily down the road.
-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 01:08:41 2004
From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:08:41 -0400
Subject: Kinda Urgent (to me, anyway) -> Javascript, postgres and checkboxes... Last big hurdle
In-Reply-To: <40BA371C.5090004-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40BA371C.5090004@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20040531010841.GA3583@smeagol>

On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 03:33:48PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
>   Along side each directory and file is a checkbox that I have yet to 
> make work and have been struggling with for the last two days. The idea 
> is that when a checkbox for a directory is checked that automatically 
> all sub directories and files will automatically become selected. 

I don't have enough information yet to solve this problem for you....will
all files be available from the page that we're on, or just the "top level
directories" for whatever directory you're in? If all files are displayed
then this (in theory) will work. It's completely hypothetica though, so
you'll have to do some testing and let me know where it does/not work. If
the files are NOT all showing when you are trying to select sub-dirs then
you're actually working with a Perl problem, not a JavaScript problem.

Let me know how you do with this info....

So let's say your HTML looks like this:







(etc)


or maybe you do this onsubmit in which case:



Then to select a "tree" of files your javascript might look something
like this:

function andLower (filesArray) {
	for (var i=0; i < filesArray.length; i++) {
		var thisFile = new String(filesArray[i].value);
		
		if (filesArray[i].checked == true) {
			// we've found an item which is currently checked
			// from here to the end of this section everything
			// should be turned "on"
			var lastSlash = thisFile.lastIndexOf("/");
			var thePath = thePath.slice(0, lastSlash);
		}

		// if this checkbox's filename starts with the checked path
		// it should also be checked
		var findMe = /^thePath/;
		if (thisFile.search(findMe) != -1) {
			filesArray[i].checked = true;
		}
	}
}



-- 
Emma Jane Hogbin
[[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]]
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 01:23:34 2004
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:23:34 -0400
Subject: Kinda Urgent (to me, anyway) -> Javascript, postgres
 and checkboxes... Last big hurdle
In-Reply-To: <40BA371C.5090004-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40BA371C.5090004@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40BA8916.2010207@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Madison,

Madison Kelly wrote:
>   Along side each directory and file is a checkbox that I have yet to
> make work and have been struggling with for the last two days. The
> idea
> is that when a checkbox for a directory is checked that automatically
> all sub directories and files will automatically become selected. Then
> (either at that moment or when the user clicks an "Update" button) the
> files that have been selected need to have their 'file_backup boolean'
> set to true so that when the backup is run on that given partition it
> will grab any directory or file which has been set to 'true' (plus any
> new files that have since been created that exist in a directory which
> has been selected). I need the reverse to occur, too. When a user
> unchecks a file or directory that file or that directory and all of
> it's
> subdirectories and folders need to be have their 'file_backup boolean'
> set to false.

I have once done something similar to what you are doing with the
checkboxes, so here is something that may help:
(sorry for the long lines)

> 
>
> 	 /home 
> 	
    
> 		
  •  www 
    • 
> 		
  •  anton 
    • 
> 	

> 	
> 	
> 	
> 

>
> 


Basically, you would name the checkboxes whatever you want, because the
key is to use the /id/ attribute. You perl script would generate the IDs
("/0/1", etc.) by simply numbering each file in the directory. This way
we can transverse it like an array using a /for/ loop and the
document.getElementById function until we run into a non-existant ID.

I also created a chkfile function to show how you can manipulate a
parent by knowing a child ID. In this case unchecking a file unchecks
the parent directory. You can transvers the entire hierchy backwards by
using hierchy.pop() in a loop. This sample requires a bit more work, but
I hope it is clear enough to help you.


> PS - When this is done I would love to announce it here for peer review.
> Would that be acceptable use of the list?
I don't know if it's "acceptable", but I would definitely like to take a
look at your program when it's finished. I've been looking for a good
backup program for a while now.

- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQFAuokVRreNkzrRRLQRAlgTAJ0b6LRf1GDp3p5kTnH3sNUyIi53BwCeNB7S
6MYaRs/9EmvZS8lNTZvWfWQ=
=B9s0
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun May 30 21:40:57 2004
From: ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:40:57 +0000
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA77C9.5040807-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com> <40BA77C9.5040807@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40BA54E9.6000607@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Ilya Palagin wrote:
> 
>> Madison Kelly wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up 
>>> when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. 
>>> Realising this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and 
>>> instead use "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE 
>>> section. The problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl 
>>> throws an empty error (generic software error) whenever this call is 
>>> made ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
>>>
>>>   If I go directly into postgres and issue the same command it works 
>>> fine. I've looked at the O'Reilley "Programming the Perl DBI" book 
>>> and it has stuff on autocommit but it either doesn't say what I am 
>>> supposed to do or I am too daft/tired to get it. Has anyone run into 
>>> this before? Since turning autocommit back off my test submit of 
>>> ~2,400 entires has gone up from ~21 seconds to ~99 seconds... That is 
>>> a frustrating development, too say the least.
>>
>>
>>
>> Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is 
>> faster and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases 
>> like yours (I suppose that backup database is simple).
> 
> 
> Fair question, and I don't know the answer :/. I chose PostgresSQL a 
> while ago as my database of choice because I read of it's capabilities. 
> Since then that is all I have used. Maybe when the deadline is passed I 
> will try out MySQL and see how it compares.
> 
> For what it is worth, it looks like the first big user will have roughly 
> 5TB of data to backup and likely over a million files and directoried 
> whose data needs to be saved, including unique records for what is on 
> each piece of backup media. Is that "small"? (honest question). Thanks!!

If a user has this amount of important data to manage, he needs 
something like Tivoli Storage Manager.  Saving just 20GB of data on tape 
takes a few hours, so his terabytes will loose integrity if he tries to 
store them with regular backup tools.

> 
> Madison (Who is looking more and more like she is going to miss her 
> deadline because of her lack of Javascript knowledge! >.< )
I'm not sure if it's possible to make clickable openable folder icons 
with JavaScript (I guess it's what you need for files selection). This 
can be done with Java.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 01:45:12 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:45:12 -0400
Subject: Kinda Urgent (to me, anyway) -> Javascript, postgres
 and checkboxes... Last big hurdle
In-Reply-To: <20040531010841.GA3583-Kz9ENIl45+A@public.gmane.org>
References: <40BA371C.5090004@alteeve.com> <20040531010841.GA3583@smeagol>
Message-ID: <40BA8E28.1040004@alteeve.com>

Emma Jane Hogbin wrote:
> On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 03:33:48PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>>  Along side each directory and file is a checkbox that I have yet to 
>>make work and have been struggling with for the last two days. The idea 
>>is that when a checkbox for a directory is checked that automatically 
>>all sub directories and files will automatically become selected. 
> 
> 
> I don't have enough information yet to solve this problem for you....will
> all files be available from the page that we're on, or just the "top level
> directories" for whatever directory you're in? If all files are displayed
> then this (in theory) will work. It's completely hypothetica though, so
> you'll have to do some testing and let me know where it does/not work. If
> the files are NOT all showing when you are trying to select sub-dirs then
> you're actually working with a Perl problem, not a JavaScript problem.
> 
> Let me know how you do with this info....
> 
> So let's say your HTML looks like this:
> 

> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> (etc)
>  		onclick="andLower(document.listOfFiles.files)" />
> 
> or maybe you do this onsubmit in which case:
>  		onsubmit="andLower(document.listOfFiles.files)">
> 
> 
> Then to select a "tree" of files your javascript might look something
> like this:
> 
> function andLower (filesArray) {
> 	for (var i=0; i < filesArray.length; i++) {
> 		var thisFile = new String(filesArray[i].value);
> 		
> 		if (filesArray[i].checked == true) {
> 			// we've found an item which is currently checked
> 			// from here to the end of this section everything
> 			// should be turned "on"
> 			var lastSlash = thisFile.lastIndexOf("/");
> 			var thePath = thePath.slice(0, lastSlash);
> 		}
> 
> 		// if this checkbox's filename starts with the checked path
> 		// it should also be checked
> 		var findMe = /^thePath/;
> 		if (thisFile.search(findMe) != -1) {
> 			filesArray[i].checked = true;
> 		}
> 	}
> }

Thank you so much!!

I am reading through your post now trying to understand how it works and 
will try to implement it and report back.

To answer your question, perl queries the database for the directories 
off of root and then any subdirectories that have been set to be 
displayed for each. Any other subdirectory is not returned from the 
database or shown. The files shown start off only as the ones in the '/' 
  of the working partition. When another directory is selected it's 
files are read in from the database and shown. So all of the files in 
the subdirectories of a selected file are not printed. I supposed to fix 
this (if needed) I could read in -everything- on the partition and alter 
views using viewable layers (dhtml?) but that would mean I would have to 
learn how and my poor brain is at the breaking point!! :)

Okay, off to reading what you have shown me!

Madison
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 01:50:14 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:50:14 -0400
Subject: Kinda Urgent (to me, anyway) -> Javascript, postgres
 and checkboxes... Last big hurdle
In-Reply-To: <40BA8916.2010207-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40BA371C.5090004@alteeve.com> <40BA8916.2010207@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <40BA8F56.6090407@alteeve.com>

Anton Markov wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hi Madison,
> 
> Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>>  Along side each directory and file is a checkbox that I have yet to
>>make work and have been struggling with for the last two days. The
>>idea
>>is that when a checkbox for a directory is checked that automatically
>>all sub directories and files will automatically become selected. Then
>>(either at that moment or when the user clicks an "Update" button) the
>>files that have been selected need to have their 'file_backup boolean'
>>set to true so that when the backup is run on that given partition it
>>will grab any directory or file which has been set to 'true' (plus any
>>new files that have since been created that exist in a directory which
>>has been selected). I need the reverse to occur, too. When a user
>>unchecks a file or directory that file or that directory and all of
>>it's
>>subdirectories and folders need to be have their 'file_backup boolean'
>>set to false.
> 
> 
> I have once done something similar to what you are doing with the
> checkboxes, so here is something that may help:
> (sorry for the long lines)
> 
> 
>>
>>
>>	 
> onchange="chkdirs(this.id)"> /home 
> 
>>	
    
>>		
  •  
> onchange="chkfile(this.id)"> www 
    • 
> 
>>		
  •  
> onchange="chkfile(this.id)"> anton 
    • 
> 
>>	

>>	
>>	
>>	
>>

>>
>>
> 
> 
> 
> Basically, you would name the checkboxes whatever you want, because the
> key is to use the /id/ attribute. You perl script would generate the IDs
> ("/0/1", etc.) by simply numbering each file in the directory. This way
> we can transverse it like an array using a /for/ loop and the
> document.getElementById function until we run into a non-existant ID.
> 
> I also created a chkfile function to show how you can manipulate a
> parent by knowing a child ID. In this case unchecking a file unchecks
> the parent directory. You can transvers the entire hierchy backwards by
> using hierchy.pop() in a loop. This sample requires a bit more work, but
> I hope it is clear enough to help you.
> 
> 
> 
>>PS - When this is done I would love to announce it here for peer review.
>>Would that be acceptable use of the list?
> 
> I don't know if it's "acceptable", but I would definitely like to take a
> look at your program when it's finished. I've been looking for a good
> backup program for a while now.
> 
> - --
> Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

   Oh Anton you darling that looks like the ticket!! (The /id/ tags). I 
don't know how to use it yet but now I have something to work towards 
that looks like what I am already doing with the 'file_parent_dir' 
value!! Woohoo! I don't mind learning when I have an idea of -what- to 
learn (which until now I didn't - hence my frustration and desperation!)

Thank you very much!!

Madison

PS - I will let you know when it is ready!!
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 01:54:08 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:54:08 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA54E9.6000607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com> <40BA77C9.5040807@alteeve.com> <40BA54E9.6000607@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <40BA9040.3020308@alteeve.com>

Ilya Palagin wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
>> Ilya Palagin wrote:
>>
>>> Madison Kelly wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up 
>>>> when I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. 
>>>> Realising this I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and 
>>>> instead use "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE 
>>>> section. The problem though is that no matter what I seem to try 
>>>> perl throws an empty error (generic software error) whenever this 
>>>> call is made ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
>>>>
>>>>   If I go directly into postgres and issue the same command it works 
>>>> fine. I've looked at the O'Reilley "Programming the Perl DBI" book 
>>>> and it has stuff on autocommit but it either doesn't say what I am 
>>>> supposed to do or I am too daft/tired to get it. Has anyone run into 
>>>> this before? Since turning autocommit back off my test submit of 
>>>> ~2,400 entires has gone up from ~21 seconds to ~99 seconds... That 
>>>> is a frustrating development, too say the least.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is 
>>> faster and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases 
>>> like yours (I suppose that backup database is simple).
>>
>>
>>
>> Fair question, and I don't know the answer :/. I chose PostgresSQL a 
>> while ago as my database of choice because I read of it's 
>> capabilities. Since then that is all I have used. Maybe when the 
>> deadline is passed I will try out MySQL and see how it compares.
>>
>> For what it is worth, it looks like the first big user will have 
>> roughly 5TB of data to backup and likely over a million files and 
>> directoried whose data needs to be saved, including unique records for 
>> what is on each piece of backup media. Is that "small"? (honest 
>> question). Thanks!!
> 
> 
> If a user has this amount of important data to manage, he needs 
> something like Tivoli Storage Manager.  Saving just 20GB of data on tape 
> takes a few hours, so his terabytes will loose integrity if he tries to 
> store them with regular backup tools.
> 
>>
>> Madison (Who is looking more and more like she is going to miss her 
>> deadline because of her lack of Javascript knowledge! >.< )
> 
> I'm not sure if it's possible to make clickable openable folder icons 
> with JavaScript (I guess it's what you need for files selection). This 
> can be done with Java.


   Hi!

   Oh, tape backup is very much out of the question which is what drove 
me to write this program. I couldn't find any canned software that made 
use of external disk storage in a way that I wanted.

   If I can't get all of the function yet that is okay, so long as I can 
get something that works at all for now. I will spend time after making 
these easier to use and faster. I know you can do it with Java (Webmin 
has a module like this) but one of my main goals was to require -no- 
applets or other code on the client computer. I hope I don't have to 
give in to make this work...

   Well, Emma and Anton have given me some ideas to chew on so...

Madison
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 01:57:26 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 21:57:26 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA3BBA.5040204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1@cbbrowne.com>

> Madison Kelly wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> >   I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up when 
> > I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. Realising this 
> > I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and instead use 
> > "BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE section. The 
> > problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl throws an empty 
> > error (generic software error) whenever this call is made 
> > ($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
> > 
> >   If I go directly into postgres and issue the same command it works 
> > fine. I've looked at the O'Reilley "Programming the Perl DBI" book and 
> > it has stuff on autocommit but it either doesn't say what I am supposed 
> > to do or I am too daft/tired to get it. Has anyone run into this before? 
> > Since turning autocommit back off my test submit of ~2,400 entires has 
> > gone up from ~21 seconds to ~99 seconds... That is a frustrating 
> > development, too say the least.
> 
> Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is faster 
> and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases like yours 
> (I suppose that backup database is simple).

MySQL(tm) is only free software if you're going to be distributing your
application that uses it also as free software; otherwise, it costs you
$450 USD per system, for something that is definitely more primitive
than anything else that you'd be likely to pay $450 for.

And it is anything but simple to figure out what features actually work.


 "It's not a bug - it's a gotcha. A "gotcha" is a feature or function
 which works as advertised - but not as expected.

 When working with the MySQL(tm) database server I have repeatedly
 encountered situations where the results of various actions have been
 unexpected and/or contrary to the behaviour generally expected of an
 SQL relational database."

In many cases, it'll silently turn your data into crud on you instead of
raising exceptions.  So I agree that it's "more simple," if we consider
that to be that it makes it "more simple" to corrupt the contents of
your database.

By the way, which properly-tuned benchmark did you base the "faster"
categorization on?  PostgreSQL used to be slow, back in the 7.0 days,
but that was back in the last millennium...
--
"cbbrowne","@","acm.org"
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/linuxxian.html
I always try tpo do things in chronological order. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 02:14:02 2004
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:14:02 -0400
Subject: Kinda Urgent (to me, anyway) -> Javascript, postgres
 and checkboxes... Last big hurdle
In-Reply-To: <40BA8F56.6090407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40BA371C.5090004@alteeve.com> <40BA8916.2010207@truxtar.com> <40BA8F56.6090407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <40BA94EA.7040206@truxtar.com>

By the way, I found the best Javascrip reference to be Netscape's:


I use it all the time.

Madison Kelly wrote:
I don't mind learning when I have an idea of -what- to
> learn (which until now I didn't - hence my frustration and desperation!)

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPG Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

*** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! ***
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 02:38:35 2004
From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:38:35 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA54E9.6000607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com>
	 <40BA77C9.5040807@alteeve.com>  <40BA54E9.6000607@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1085971113.23332.74.camel@localhost.localdomain>

> > 
> > Madison (Who is looking more and more like she is going to miss her 
> > deadline because of her lack of Javascript knowledge! >.< )
> I'm not sure if it's possible to make clickable openable folder icons 
> with JavaScript (I guess it's what you need for files selection). This 
> can be done with Java.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

There's a sample using perl and javascript here: 
http://psema4.gotdns.com/cgi-bin/webfm.cgi (based on Ron Savages work
here: http://search.cpan.org/~rsavage/)

I only just got it working enough to see it would do what I wanted, so I
apologize for the simplicity.

-- 
Scott Elcomb
http://psema4.gotdns.com
https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/

PGP Public Key:
1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: 

From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 02:52:36 2004
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 22:52:36 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <1085971113.23332.74.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com>	 <40BA77C9.5040807@alteeve.com>  <40BA54E9.6000607@rogers.com> <1085971113.23332.74.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <40BA9DF4.5070007@alteeve.com>

Scott Elcomb wrote:
>>>Madison (Who is looking more and more like she is going to miss her 
>>>deadline because of her lack of Javascript knowledge! >.< )
>>
>>I'm not sure if it's possible to make clickable openable folder icons 
>>with JavaScript (I guess it's what you need for files selection). This 
>>can be done with Java.
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> There's a sample using perl and javascript here: 
> http://psema4.gotdns.com/cgi-bin/webfm.cgi (based on Ron Savages work
> here: http://search.cpan.org/~rsavage/)
> 
> I only just got it working enough to see it would do what I wanted, so I
> apologize for the simplicity.
> 

Thank you for the reference! One the surface it looks promising, too!

Madison
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 03:09:25 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 23:09:25 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA7AA8.6000708-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com>
	 <20040531000659.GA498@node1.opengeometry.net>
	 <40BA7AA8.6000708@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1085972964.1558.50.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 20:22, Madison Kelly wrote:
> William Park wrote:
> > On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 07:53:30PM +0000, Ilya Palagin wrote:
> > 
> >>Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is faster 
> >>and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases like yours 
> >>(I suppose that backup database is simple).
> > 
> > 
> > Or, even regular text file.
> > 
> 
> No, that I can safely say wouldn't be a good idea.
> 
> I started off recording partition information to raw text files and it 
> was a nightmare keeping it straight. Switching to a database cut the 
> number of line in half and made the program a lot more reliable. I am 
> sure it made it slower though but the reliability was needed. Maybe a 
> better programmer could make text files work (I am still pretty much a 
> n00b, after all).

Have you considered using a dbm file?  See perldoc DB_File.  Can't help
with the Javascript though, sorry.

-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 04:34:25 2004
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:34:25 -0400
Subject: TLUG commercial page (was; Sticker)
In-Reply-To: <40B986B5.8040008-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>    <20040528220346.68349.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54> <40B986B5.8040008@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <40BAB5D1.40401@sympatico.ca>

David Colebatch wrote:

> Couldn't such a page at tlug's website also help to create a new 
> revenue stream for tlug?  Paid advertisements etc. can work well, and 
> since tlug would be in control, rather than a free-for-all, it could 
> be controlled in such a way as not to deter people.
>
> Just my 2 cents :)
>
> -David 

I think TLUG linux related sales / services page is long overdue.
The membership includes some very talented folks who have been known to 
offer consulting / programming services, as well as hardware sales and 
service. Throw the tux sticker into the mix, and the TLUG commercial 
page(s) will be an important resource. Linix is a better mouse trap and 
the world will want to beat a path to it's door.
Why not make www.tlug.ss.org/sales and www.tlug.ss.org/service that door ?
djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 04:39:02 2004
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:39:02 -0400
Subject: TLUG page is DOWN !?
In-Reply-To: <40BAB5D1.40401-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>    <20040528220346.68349.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com> <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54> <40B986B5.8040008@dingodave.cjb.net> <40BAB5D1.40401@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <40BAB6E6.10605@sympatico.ca>

David J Patrick wrote:

>
> Why not make www.tlug.ss.org/sales and www.tlug.ss.org/service that 
> door ?
> djp

Maybe 'cause THE PAGE IS DOWN !!
How long has it been down ?
When was the last time you had a reason to look at it ?
Who's maintaining it these days ?
djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 03:50:50 2004
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 23:50:50 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com> <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> In many cases, it'll silently turn your data into crud on you instead of
> raising exceptions.

Our mileage has clearly varied. One place I worked had MySQL doing 
business-critical things on a very busy financial website. mysqld 
uptimes were measured in months, and there had been no data corruption 
in the four years that the system had been running.

  Stewart
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 00:39:13 2004
From: ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:39:13 +0000
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com> <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40BA7EB1.9070801@rogers.com>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>>Madison Kelly wrote:
>>
>>>Hi all,
>>>
>>>  I was playing more with trying to get the database performance up when 
>>>I realised that I needed to "COMMIT" to aply the updates. Realising this 
>>>I decided to turn postgres' 'autocommit' back off and instead use 
>>>"BEGIN/COMMIT" only on the large SELECT/INPUT/UPDATE section. The 
>>>problem though is that no matter what I seem to try perl throws an empty 
>>>error (generic software error) whenever this call is made 
>>>($db->do("BEGIN") || die "$DBI::errstr";).
>>>
>>>  If I go directly into postgres and issue the same command it works 
>>>fine. I've looked at the O'Reilley "Programming the Perl DBI" book and 
>>>it has stuff on autocommit but it either doesn't say what I am supposed 
>>>to do or I am too daft/tired to get it. Has anyone run into this before? 
>>>Since turning autocommit back off my test submit of ~2,400 entires has 
>>>gone up from ~21 seconds to ~99 seconds... That is a frustrating 
>>>development, too say the least.
>>
>>Are you sure that you need PostgreSQL for your project?  MySQL is faster 
>>and more simple.  It's the best choise for simple databases like yours 
>>(I suppose that backup database is simple).
> 
> 
> MySQL(tm) is only free software if you're going to be distributing your
> application that uses it also as free software; otherwise, it costs you
> $450 USD per system, for something that is definitely more primitive
> than anything else that you'd be likely to pay $450 for.

One has to buy license if he distributes any part of MySQL
along with his product (this is what they call MySQL-based product), which
doesn't comply with GPL.   See
http://www.mysql.com/products/licensing/commercial-license.html
Isn't it fair?

If a product just uses MySQL as a third-party application, there is no need
to buy a license.

> 
> And it is anything but simple to figure out what features actually work.
> 
> 
>  "It's not a bug - it's a gotcha. A "gotcha" is a feature or function
>  which works as advertised - but not as expected.
> 
>  When working with the MySQL(tm) database server I have repeatedly
>  encountered situations where the results of various actions have been
>  unexpected and/or contrary to the behaviour generally expected of an
>  SQL relational database."
> 
> In many cases, it'll silently turn your data into crud on you instead of
> raising exceptions.  So I agree that it's "more simple," if we consider
> that to be that it makes it "more simple" to corrupt the contents of
> your database.

I've never had such an experience.  Servers crashed due to faulty memory
or hard drives, power was lost, applications occupied completely system
resources, but the only thing to be done to MySQL database after that
was myisamchk.

> 
> By the way, which properly-tuned benchmark did you base the "faster"
> categorization on?  PostgreSQL used to be slow, back in the 7.0 days,
> but that was back in the last millennium...

Well, it's an image.  MySQL has been considered the fastest one (don't 
forget
about absence of referential integrity, stored procedures, subqueries). 
  Maybe
situation has changed since 4.1 version was released, not sure.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 04:40:20 2004
From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 00:40:20 -0400
Subject: (Commercial) Tux Sticker
In-Reply-To: <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel-Y3r+xR8pFJWlUYFUHb6iJA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <20040528220346.68349.qmail@web40704.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <1139.216.233.110.54.1085784212.squirrel@216.233.110.54>
Message-ID: <1085978418.23332.102.camel@localhost.localdomain>

Being the new guy, I really don't know much about the territory - but
you might be able to leverage eblah for promoting TLUG.  I certainly
don't see why not.

Here's an example of an "eblah powered mini-ebay":
http://www.nonmint.com/cgi-bin/board/Blah.pl

Eblah (http://www.eblah.com) isn't terribly difficult to install,
supports traffic, is fairly lightweight and fast.

Not technologically astounding, but functional, customizable, and user
friendly.

It's GPL and written by a teen.

I'm not trying to sell it (well maybe I am) but this is sort of related
to my earlier post about advocacy isn't it?

One of the (dozen) reasons I buy LinuxJournal and LinuxFormat every
month is because of the letters and pictures people send in.  There's a
lot of love for Tux.  (Reach out and hug somebody? lol)

On Fri, 2004-05-28 at 18:43, Noah John Gellner wrote:
> Rather than creating a new website, wouldn't it be easier to use the
> computers section of toronto.craigslist.org?
> 
> Cheers,
> Noah
> 
> On Fri, May 28, 2004 6:03 pm, Mel Seder said:
> >
> > --- hui xu  wrote:
> >> All,
> >>
> >> Another way to do it is to create a BBS website. So the person who want
> >> to
> >> sell and buy stuff can go to that web to post and searching for the
> >> stuff
> >> they need.
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
Scott Elcomb
http://psema4.gotdns.com
https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/

PGP Public Key:
1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) 
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: 

From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 05:35:22 2004
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:35:22 +1000
Subject: TLUG commercial page (was; Sticker)
In-Reply-To: <40BAB5D1.40401-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com> <40B986B5.8040008@dingodave.cjb.net> <40BAB5D1.40401@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200405311535.23591.david@dingodave.cjb.net>

On Monday 31 May 2004 2:34 pm, David J Patrick wrote:
> David Colebatch wrote:
> > Couldn't such a page at tlug's website also help to create a new
> > revenue stream for tlug?  Paid advertisements etc. can work well, and
> > since tlug would be in control, rather than a free-for-all, it could
> > be controlled in such a way as not to deter people.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents :)
> >
> > -David
>
> I think TLUG linux related sales / services page is long overdue.
> The membership includes some very talented folks who have been known to
> offer consulting / programming services, as well as hardware sales and
> service. Throw the tux sticker into the mix, and the TLUG commercial
> page(s) will be an important resource. Linix is a better mouse trap and
> the world will want to beat a path to it's door.
> Why not make www.tlug.ss.org/sales and www.tlug.ss.org/service that door ?
> djp

And why we're at it, how about a linux jobs/projects site? :)

I get the feeling there are an endless number of _things_ which people would 
like added to the site.

-David
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 05:39:50 2004
From: david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (David Colebatch)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:39:50 +1000
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BA7EB1.9070801-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1@cbbrowne.com> <40BA7EB1.9070801@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200405311539.50521.david@dingodave.cjb.net>

On Monday 31 May 2004 10:39 am, Ilya Palagin wrote:
> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> > By the way, which properly-tuned benchmark did you base the "faster"
> > categorization on?  PostgreSQL used to be slow, back in the 7.0 days,
> > but that was back in the last millennium...
>
> Well, it's an image.  MySQL has been considered the fastest one (don't
> forget
> about absence of referential integrity, stored procedures, subqueries).
>   Maybe
> situation has changed since 4.1 version was released, not sure.

I remember reading an interview with the MySQL head-honcho in a Linux Journal 
~12months ago.  He said that Stored Procedures and subqueries were in the 
pipeline, but also, that he would like MySQL to be as scalable and flexible 
ass possible.  So, you could probably omit a whole lot of features which 
would slow transactions down during your ./configure (If you build from 
source)

I think someone was going to port/package a cut down mysqld for the Zaurus! (I 
should look into that...)

-David
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 09:52:22 2004
From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:52:22 +0800
Subject: name resolution
Message-ID: <200405311752.22988.jerome@gmanmi.tv>

Hi,

	I experienced something new today.. I was trying to browse  
www.somedomain.tv..  unfortunately the browser reports this ..

Unable to determine IP address from host name for www.somedomain.tv

i have boxes sitting on 3 different data centers... i tried doing dig 
www.somedomain.tv with my 1st box... and i got a result... i tried the same 
test on the 2nd and 3rd box.. but got no result...

what could be the possible problem? is it just a cache result when i did the 
test on my 1st box?


TIA,
jm

--
Boredom isn't the root of _all_ evil, but it tries.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From alamba-KEM+DXFYpnDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 10:07:48 2004
From: alamba-KEM+DXFYpnDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:37:48 +0530
Subject: name resolution
In-Reply-To: <200405311752.22988.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405311752.22988.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <000001c446f7$20b58550$391965cb@corporate.bharti.com>

What were the nameserver IP's for each of the boxes?

Regards,
Akshay


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jerome
Macaranas
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:22 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: name resolution

Hi,

	I experienced something new today.. I was trying to browse  
www.somedomain.tv..  unfortunately the browser reports this ..

Unable to determine IP address from host name for www.somedomain.tv

i have boxes sitting on 3 different data centers... i tried doing dig 
www.somedomain.tv with my 1st box... and i got a result... i tried the same 
test on the 2nd and 3rd box.. but got no result...

what could be the possible problem? is it just a cache result when i did the

test on my 1st box?


TIA,
jm

--
Boredom isn't the root of _all_ evil, but it tries.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 10:19:23 2004
From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (Jerome Macaranas)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:19:23 +0800
Subject: name resolution
In-Reply-To: <000001c446f7$20b58550$391965cb-yPhac1d4APVDY8u5zQLvOFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c446f7$20b58550$391965cb@corporate.bharti.com>
Message-ID: <200405311819.23344.jerome@gmanmi.tv>

On Monday 31 May 2004 18:07, Akshay Lamba wrote:
> What were the nameserver IP's for each of the boxes?

why? they are all using the data center's dns which are all different...

>
> Regards,
> Akshay
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jerome
> Macaranas
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:22 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: name resolution
>
> Hi,
>
> 	I experienced something new today.. I was trying to browse
> www.somedomain.tv..  unfortunately the browser reports this ..
>
> Unable to determine IP address from host name for www.somedomain.tv
>
> i have boxes sitting on 3 different data centers... i tried doing dig
> www.somedomain.tv with my 1st box... and i got a result... i tried the same
> test on the 2nd and 3rd box.. but got no result...
>
> what could be the possible problem? is it just a cache result when i did
> the
>
> test on my 1st box?
>
>
> TIA,
> jm
>
> --
> Boredom isn't the root of _all_ evil, but it tries.
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-- 

Jerome Macaranas
Systems/Network Administrator
GMA New Media, Inc.
Phone: (632) 9254627 loc 202
Fax: (632) 9284553
Mobile: (632) 918-9336819
jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org

Boredom isn't the root of _all_ evil, but it tries.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 12:23:24 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 08:23:24 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <40BAAB9A.2040803-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> 
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com> <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1@cbbrowne.com> <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD@cbbrowne.com>

> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > 
> > In many cases, it'll silently turn your data into crud on you instead of
> > raising exceptions.
> 
> Our mileage has clearly varied. One place I worked had MySQL doing 
> business-critical things on a very busy financial website. mysqld 
> uptimes were measured in months, and there had been no data corruption 
> in the four years that the system had been running.

Is that "none ever," or "none that you actually noticed?"

MySQL has a penchant for silently accepting bad data and turning it into
even worse bad data.  There are numerous examples of different ways in
which it will turn your data into crud for you.


There are two usual approaches for dealing with invalid input:

 1.  Throw an error back to the application, or
 2.  Take a wild guess at some alternative value, and use it instead.

If you want data integrity of your database, 1. is the right answer.
MySQL does 2.
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/
Your latest program has been judged UNTASTEFUL by the T daemon;
and automatically deleted.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 13:45:06 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 09:45:06 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca> <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <200405310945.06819.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Monday 31 May 2004 08:23, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> There are two usual approaches for dealing with invalid input:
>
> ?1. ?Throw an error back to the application, or
> ?2. ?Take a wild guess at some alternative value, and use it instead.
>
> If you want data integrity of your database, 1. is the right answer.
> MySQL does 2.

I had always thought the answer was:

3. Never accept invalid input.

If invalid input ever touches your db layer then your software has a large 
bug.

One of the main drawbacks that I found with mysql is that it doesn't support 
subselects, I found myself wanting that even on a relatively simple 
website ... it was easy enough to work around but still the subselect would 
have (probably) been more efficient (definitely from a code point of view).

I don't use postgresql because I've seen it eat ram and eat disk space.  I 
hear it may now do an automatic "VACUUM" (whatever that means) so perhaps the 
disappearing disk issue is solved.  I've used mysql since 1998 and have only 
had one case of corruption, that was due to a corrupt disk.

In future projects I may chose postgresql but more from licensing concerns 
than technical ones (I expect).  I'll probably also give something like 
sqlite a go, it's not like I'm trying to run a gun registry ;-)

-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 14:24:59 2004
From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 10:24:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Redhat installation problems
In-Reply-To: <200405311535.23591.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405311535.23591.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: <20040531142459.87750.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com>

All,
 
I have met a problem when I install redhat 9.0 on my friend's compacQ computer. Could somebody help me out? The problem is:
 
1. I installed the redhat 9.0 with formating all the partitions in the computer( windows xp was on it before). The installation process was successfully.
 
2. After installation, I booted the computer. I got the following information and the computer stoped there.
*********************************************************
 Initializing RT netlink socket
Apm: BIOS Version1.2 Flags 0X0b (Driver version 1.6)
***************************************************************
 
Doese anybody have experience with it ?
 
Thanks!
Louie
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


David Colebatch  wrote:
On Monday 31 May 2004 2:34 pm, David J Patrick wrote:
> David Colebatch wrote:
> > Couldn't such a page at tlug's website also help to create a new
> > revenue stream for tlug? Paid advertisements etc. can work well, and
> > since tlug would be in control, rather than a free-for-all, it could
> > be controlled in such a way as not to deter people.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents :)
> >
> > -David
>
> I think TLUG linux related sales / services page is long overdue.
> The membership includes some very talented folks who have been known to
> offer consulting / programming services, as well as hardware sales and
> service. Throw the tux sticker into the mix, and the TLUG commercial
> page(s) will be an important resource. Linix is a better mouse trap and
> the world will want to beat a path to it's door.
> Why not make www.tlug.ss.org/sales and www.tlug.ss.org/service that door ?
> djp

And why we're at it, how about a linux jobs/projects site? :)

I get the feeling there are an endless number of _things_ which people would 
like added to the site.

-David
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: 

From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 16:20:41 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:20:41 -0400
Subject: name resolution
In-Reply-To: <200405311819.23344.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c446f7$20b58550$391965cb@corporate.bharti.com> <200405311819.23344.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <20040531162041.GA299@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 06:19:23PM +0800, Jerome Macaranas wrote:
> why? they are all using the data center's dns which are all different...

There is your answer.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Slackware -- because I can type.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 00:05:14 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 03:05:14 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Fouled-up smtp...
In-Reply-To: <20040530194512.GA452-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B78990.7000005@alteeve.com> <20040528191322.GA364@node1.opengeometry.net>
 
 <20040529182455.GA318@node1.opengeometry.net> 
 <20040530194512.GA452@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: 


On Sun, 30 May 2004, William Park wrote:

> On Sun, May 30, 2004 at 05:04:07PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > > That is the best joke I heard this month. Suse and a couple other
> > > > distros come with Postfix MTA as default for a reason.
> > >
> > > Like?  Sendmail vs Postfix vs Qmail is like Vi(m) vs Emacs vs Pico.
> > > I use Vi, and even my shell command line is vi-mode.
> >
> > I use vi too but that's not a good reason to enjoy $< $? $!@#@! $>
> > substitutions in sendmail.cf files. I played with this, it's bad imho.
>
> Granted.  But, you really don't need to play with .cf nowdays.  You
> should configure Sendmail using .m4 as recommended/supported by
> Sendmail.org.  The only raw .cf recipes that I have is to reject
> Microsoft Swen emails, and even that is in my .m4 file.

Grin, I tried that at the time. 'canned' cf files are about as useful as
gui setup wizards. If you need anything non-standard you're sol. Been
there, no thanks. And as I said, editing the cf file by hand is gruesome.
It's been like 6 or 7 years and I still remember how bad it was.

Peter


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 16:57:49 2004
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 12:57:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: name resolution
In-Reply-To: <200405311819.23344.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c446f7$20b58550$391965cb@corporate.bharti.com>
 <200405311819.23344.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: 

On Mon, 31 May 2004, Jerome Macaranas wrote:

> On Monday 31 May 2004 18:07, Akshay Lamba wrote:
> > What were the nameserver IP's for each of the boxes?
>
> why? they are all using the data center's dns which are all different...

Do the DNS servers have logical and geographic seperation?  We could
probably pin the problem down quickly if we knew the actual domain as then
we could do queries.

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 17:08:15 2004
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice)
Date: 31 May 2004 13:08:15 -0400
Subject: Ask not what Linux has done ... [was Re: TLUG commercial page]
In-Reply-To: <200405311535.23591.david-nuEF980otx7IfpyC97YFaV6hYfS7NtTn@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040528183827.98264.qmail@web50605.mail.yahoo.com>
	<40B986B5.8040008@dingodave.cjb.net> <40BAB5D1.40401@sympatico.ca>
	<200405311535.23591.david@dingodave.cjb.net>
Message-ID: 

David Colebatch  writes:
> > > Couldn't such a page at tlug's website also help to create a new
> > > Just my 2 cents :)
> >
> > I think TLUG linux related sales / services page is long overdue.
> > The membership includes some very talented folks who have been known to
> 
> And why we're at it, how about a linux jobs/projects site? :)
> 
> I get the feeling there are an endless number of _things_ which people
> would like added to the site.

Guys, why not help do this on a national level [even if it is a fundraiser
for local LUGs]?  CLUE [http://www.linux.ca] is getting active again and
we're looking for people that will follow through on these sort of things.
The guy that did jobs.linux.ca seems to have disappeared so this one is up
for grabs.

There's a large list of things that people can do to help.  By a long shot,
most of them are _NON_-technical.

For example, who'd like to see OSW [http://www.osw.ca] become a national
event next year?  That's one of the things that we're working on with the OSW
folks in Ottawa.

Anyway, if anyone is interested in helping out [no effort is too small], feel
free to send me a private e-mail.

Regards,
-- 
g. matthew rice          starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                                  gpg id: EF9AAD20
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 18:20:42 2004
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:20:42 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <200405310945.06819.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca> <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD@cbbrowne.com> <200405310945.06819.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20040531182042.GA354@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, May 31, 2004 at 09:45:06AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> In future projects I may chose postgresql but more from licensing
> concerns than technical ones (I expect).  I'll probably also give
> something like sqlite a go, it's not like I'm trying to run a gun
> registry ;-)

Arrgh...  Original $2 Million is about right, if you consider the
payroll for people opening the envelopes and doing the paperworks.  The
cost will be lower if it's done online.  But, $2 Billion !!!  Maybe we
should retain the guys who were able to sell this to the government.  We
Linux guys REALLY need this kind of salesmanship and expertise. ;-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, 
Slackware -- because I can type.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 18:23:16 2004
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:23:16 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BA3BBA.5040204@rogers.com> <20040531015727.7F7F03FE1@cbbrowne.com> <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca> <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <40BB7814.9060005@sympatico.ca>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> Is that "none ever," or "none that you actually noticed?"

None that caused errors in the accounting system. Take from that what 
you will

> MySQL has a penchant for silently accepting bad data and turning it into
> even worse bad data. ...
> 

I'm not very impressed with their repeated banging on about setting 
auto-increment values. Does anyone actually ever do this?

  Stewart
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 18:24:29 2004
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:24:29 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <200405310945.06819.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> 
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca> <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD@cbbrowne.com> <200405310945.06819.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20040531182430.7803F3FDD@cbbrowne.com>

> On Monday 31 May 2004 08:23, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> > There are two usual approaches for dealing with invalid input:
> >
> > =A01. =A0Throw an error back to the application, or
> > =A02. =A0Take a wild guess at some alternative value, and use it instead.
> >
> > If you want data integrity of your database, 1. is the right answer.
> > MySQL does 2.
> 
> I had always thought the answer was:
> 
> 3. Never accept invalid input.

That's ideal; the challenge comes in that you may have lots of code out
there that accesses the data.

If the database does no data validation, then that mandates that
validation be spread deeply throughout your application.  If there is a
single function that accesses the database that does not do all
necessary validation, then you just created a route to corrupt the
contents of the database.

> If invalid input ever touches your db layer then your software has a
> large bug.

If you can come up with a way to guarantee that ALL the code throughout
ALL of a complex distributed application cannot be affected by invalid
input, then you have solved one of the Great Problems of Distributed
Computing.

> One of the main drawbacks that I found with mysql is that it doesn't
> support subselects, I found myself wanting that even on a relatively
> simple website ... it was easy enough to work around but still the
> subselect would have (probably) been more efficient (definitely from a
> code point of view).

Yeah, we have a "bug" open right now where there's a query someone needs
to do against a crufty MySQL database that would be easy to do as an SQL
query, if MySQL actually supported a reasonable subset of SQL.

But because it is "simpler," it's going to be necessary to submit a
development request to the development group, with all the associated
weeping and gnashing of teeth.

> I don't use postgresql because I've seen it eat ram and eat disk
> space.  I hear it may now do an automatic "VACUUM" (whatever that
> means) so perhaps the disappearing disk issue is solved.  I've used
> mysql since 1998 and have only had one case of corruption, that was
> due to a corrupt disk.

What do you mean?  *ALL* real database systems eat all of RAM;
PostgreSQL is actually pretty unusual in that it normally _doesn't_ do
that.

I'm one of the ones that was involved with developing "pg_autovacuum",
which does indeed go a long ways towards addressing the "disappearing
disk" issue.

> In future projects I may chose postgresql but more from licensing
> concerns than technical ones (I expect).  I'll probably also give
> something like sqlite a go, it's not like I'm trying to run a gun
> registry ;-)

Licensing issues are getting to be, well, a growing concern.
--
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','cbbrowne.com').
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/wp.html
"A  ROUGH  WHIMPER  OF   INSANITY"  is  an  anagram  for  "INFORMATION
SUPERHIGHWAY".
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 18:26:50 2004
From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 14:26:50 -0400
Subject: Redhat installation problems
In-Reply-To: <20040531142459.87750.qmail-L3xTA/E7k1uA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20040531142459.87750.qmail@web50604.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1086028010.4869.78.camel@procyon.operationaldynamics.com>

On Mon, 2004-05-31 at 10:24, hui xu wrote:
> 2. After installation, I booted the computer. I got the following
> information and the computer stopped there.

> Initializing RT netlink socket
> Apm: BIOS Version1.2 Flags 0X0b (Driver version 1.6)

Where the kernel stops in a boot sequence is, regretfully, not always
informative.

You have a few options:

1) assume that the message is significant, and that APM is somehow to
blame. Add "apm=off" to your kernel's boot line. [If you are using grub
you can do this at boot time; otherwise, you'll need to boot a rescue
disk or installation disk so as to be able to re-run lilo with different
parameters]

2) assume that the message is a red herring and that its something else.
Unfortunately that opens you up to a pretty wide range of possibilities.
The most likely is that you did something wrong when you (installed /
built) the systems' kernel.

Of course, the fact that you were able to book from your RedHat 9
installation disk in the first place means that whatever kernel is on
that disk is likely good-to-go. You could just simply use that kernel,
rather than (as I assume you did) building your own.

Personally, I would try a different kernel, at least, and possibly a
different distribution. Linux 2.6 kernels have, by in large, better
hardware detection and drivers (such is the nature of progress).

Since your system is a bit unsteady, to test this theory out you'll
probably need to grab a copy of the boot/installation CD-ROM from Fedora
(Fedora Core 2, which is like RedHat 10 or 11, if you will), or
something like Gentoo (say, universal disc version 2004.1) both of which
have really cutting edge kernels on them and good hardware detection
suites.

One of the nice things about Linux is that you don't have to be running
the latest and greatest to get a useful system, but when you're faced
with hardware troubles, getting newer versions of software is a place to
start.

Best of luck,

AfC
Toronto

-- 
Andrew Frederick Cowie
Operational Dynamics Consulting Pty Ltd

Fixing your technology by focusing on your people and
the processes around them. We improve usabilty, scalabilty,
and maintainability - the keys to making technology work -
through team building, implementing effective procedures,
and enhancing systems performance.

Contact us!

http://www.operationaldynamics.com/

Sydney, New York, Toronto, London
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From alamba-KEM+DXFYpnDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 19:28:59 2004
From: alamba-KEM+DXFYpnDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Akshay Lamba)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 00:58:59 +0530
Subject: name resolution
In-Reply-To: <200405311819.23344.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200405311819.23344.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <001201c44745$898903b0$8d8b5f3d@corporate.bharti.com>

Exactly, since they are using different DNS's to resolve you probably get a
response from one of the DNS cache's and not from the others. Check if the
DNS are working fine, it could also be that the site has expired and the
update has'nt trickled down to your DNS yet.

Akshay


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jerome
Macaranas
Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:49 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: name resolution

On Monday 31 May 2004 18:07, Akshay Lamba wrote:
> What were the nameserver IP's for each of the boxes?

why? they are all using the data center's dns which are all different...

>
> Regards,
> Akshay
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jerome
> Macaranas
> Sent: Monday, May 31, 2004 3:22 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: name resolution
>
> Hi,
>
> 	I experienced something new today.. I was trying to browse
> www.somedomain.tv..  unfortunately the browser reports this ..
>
> Unable to determine IP address from host name for www.somedomain.tv
>
> i have boxes sitting on 3 different data centers... i tried doing dig
> www.somedomain.tv with my 1st box... and i got a result... i tried the
same
> test on the 2nd and 3rd box.. but got no result...
>
> what could be the possible problem? is it just a cache result when i did
> the
>
> test on my 1st box?
>
>
> TIA,
> jm
>
> --
> Boredom isn't the root of _all_ evil, but it tries.
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-- 

Jerome Macaranas
Systems/Network Administrator
GMA New Media, Inc.
Phone: (632) 9254627 loc 202
Fax: (632) 9284553
Mobile: (632) 918-9336819
jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org

Boredom isn't the root of _all_ evil, but it tries.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 19:32:33 2004
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 15:32:33 -0400
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <20040531182430.7803F3FDD-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca>
	 <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD@cbbrowne.com>
	 <200405310945.06819.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
	 <20040531182430.7803F3FDD@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <1086031953.1558.70.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Mon, 2004-05-31 at 14:24, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > On Monday 31 May 2004 08:23, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > 
> > > There are two usual approaches for dealing with invalid input:
> > >
> > > =A01. =A0Throw an error back to the application, or
> > > =A02. =A0Take a wild guess at some alternative value, and use it instead.
> > >
> > > If you want data integrity of your database, 1. is the right answer.
> > > MySQL does 2.
> > 
> > I had always thought the answer was:
> > 
> > 3. Never accept invalid input.
> 
> That's ideal; the challenge comes in that you may have lots of code out
> there that accesses the data.
> 
> If the database does no data validation, then that mandates that
> validation be spread deeply throughout your application.  If there is a
> single function that accesses the database that does not do all
> necessary validation, then you just created a route to corrupt the
> contents of the database.

Sounds a lot like the arguments for language level type checking.  I
treat (My)SQL like a half-wit data storage layer with some nice features
and assume it is generally the wrong place to check data integrity.  Let
it be fast at what it does and I'll do the detailed rule checking the
way I feel it should be done.

After reading over the page I find the claims of MySQL eating data to be
a bit sensationalistic.  Does it do some slightly unexpected things? 
Sure, but nothing really terrible and certainly nothing which would
affect a reasonably written piece of code.  About the worst behaviour I
could find was concerning the integer overflow and, frankly, overflow
errors are something that should be checked for at the application level
(along with the other data sanity checks you're doing, right?  you don't
just blindly trust user input data do you?) and designed for at the
database level.  If you're going to have prices of $22,000, then make
sure your database supports at least 5 unsigned digits or 6 signed
digits.  It's really not fair to blame the DB engine for poor database
design.

> 
> > If invalid input ever touches your db layer then your software has a
> > large bug.
> 
> If you can come up with a way to guarantee that ALL the code throughout
> ALL of a complex distributed application cannot be affected by invalid
> input, then you have solved one of the Great Problems of Distributed
> Computing.

How about database abstraction layer?  Never let applications modify or
insert data directly, only through the abstraction layer.  Seems not
only like a good way to assure data integrity but good programming
practice as well.  Particularly when you have a complex, distributed
application...

Regards,
-- 
Marcus Brubaker 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 21:18:23 2004
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:18:23 -0400
Subject: OT > Sacred Texts - Open Source for the Human Soul
Message-ID: <40BBA11F.2060605@sympatico.ca>

So it ain't linux, ain't even software, but the www.sacred-texts.com 
houses a veritable treasure trove of freely available electronic texts 
about religion, mythology, legends and folklore, and occult and esoteric 
topics. Why am I telling you ? 'cause the TLUG listserve members, and 
the open source community tend to be an intelligent, even enlightened 
lot, tuned in to the phenomenon of sharing. It's all available free, but 
if you see it's value, I'd encourage you to support the site, while 
acquiring an archive of the greatest written works of all time. I did.
happy reading,
djp
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 21:50:17 2004
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 17:50:17 -0400
Subject: Install problem with Debian Sarge
Message-ID: <40BBA899.90802@canada.com>

Hi all,

I would like to install Sarge on a PC.  Actually, I would like to 
compile a 2.6 kernel but, as it needs the module-init-tools package and 
this module is not available with Woody, I assume that I have to go with 
Sarge.

Anyway, as this is not a problem for me, let's go for it.  I did a 
sucessfull install a couple of weeks ago using the Beta 4 floppy disks 
(my machine is so old that it cannot boot on a CD).  I am currently 
trying to reinstall it and it is not working anymore: the ID modules  
(ide-mod, ide-detect, ide-generic, etc.) are not installed anymore and 
then, when it is time to partition my disk, I have of course no disk to 
partition.

Did you have encounter this problem and, if yes, did you find a solution?

Thanks,

Gilles
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 22:17:20 2004
From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:17:20 -0400
Subject: Install problem with Debian Sarge
In-Reply-To: <40BBA899.90802-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <40BBA899.90802@canada.com>
Message-ID: <200405311817.20598.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>

On Monday 31 May 2004 17:50, Gilles Fourchet wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to install Sarge on a PC.  Actually, I would like to
> compile a 2.6 kernel but, as it needs the module-init-tools package and
> this module is not available with Woody, I assume that I have to go with
> Sarge.

I ran 2.6 on woody for quite a while using some backports from 
http://www.backports.org/debian/pool/main/m/module-init-tools/ ... do a 
search on that site and you will also find some 2.6 kernel packages.  I 
haven't used these for a while but I would think they still work.


> Anyway, as this is not a problem for me, let's go for it.  I did a
> sucessfull install a couple of weeks ago using the Beta 4 floppy disks
> (my machine is so old that it cannot boot on a CD).  I am currently
> trying to reinstall it and it is not working anymore: the ID modules
> (ide-mod, ide-detect, ide-generic, etc.) are not installed anymore and
> then, when it is time to partition my disk, I have of course no disk to
> partition.

Same floppies, same machines??? Very odd.


> Did you have encounter this problem and, if yes, did you find a solution?

I once downloaded an image where the wrong kernel modules were on the floppy 
(i.e. modules were for 2.4.X, kernel was 2.4.Y).  Perhaps that is your 
problem?

-- 
Fraser Campbell                  http://www.wehave.net/
Georgetown, Ontario, Canada                               Debian GNU/Linux
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 22:21:19 2004
From: rfk-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy)
Date: Mon, 31 May 2004 18:21:19 -0400
Subject: Fail-over not mission critical
In-Reply-To: <1085947708.23332.43.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
References: <1085947708.23332.43.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <000d01c4475d$98e3e7e0$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com>

Hello William and Scott,

Thanks for the tips, I am going to give rsync a try as soon as I hook up
a crossover cable. I just hope that I don't rsync in the wrong direction
:)

Best,
Robert

Robert F. Kennedy
Toronto

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Scott
Elcomb
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2004 4:09 PM
To: TLUG list
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Fail-over not mission critical


On Sun, 2004-05-30 at 12:47, Robert F. Kennedy wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am running a dns server, mail server, web server and Mailman on a 
> computer at my home with Istop as my provider to provide these 
> services for a non-profit. The load is very light and if things went 
> down for a day or so it would not be the end of the world. However, I 
> have a backup computer that I would like to set up to be a mirror of 
> my main box so that should a crash occur I could just start up the 
> second box.
> 
> The main computer is running RedHat Linux 9 updated, the backup 
> machine is 9 too but has not been updated and does not have Mailman 
> installed. I am wondering what approach some of you would take to 
> create a backup scenario for a situation like this. I have read about 
> the rsync command and this sounds perfect but I'm not sure if I'd have

> to get the backup machine updated and installed with Mailman first or 
> not. My preference would be to just keep it as simple as possible. You

> all helped me set up my dns service a few months back and everything 
> has been working like a charm ever since.
> 
> Thanks for any pointers,
> Robert
> 
> Robert F. Kennedy
> Toronto
> Running services for www.shambhalatoronto.org
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

Rsync can be a really handy utility, I used it to migrate about 1K users
to a new mail server a few months back and left me with a grand total
downtime of about 2 minutes.  :)

There are any number of tricks in O'Reilly's book "Linux Server Hacks,"
with one of the Rsync tricks available online here:
http://hacks.oreilly.com/pub/h/38

Hope it helps.

-- 
Scott Elcomb
http://psema4.gotdns.com https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/

PGP Public Key:
1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 23:32:40 2004
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: 31 May 2004 19:32:40 -0400
Subject: apt-get segfault
Message-ID: <1086046360.1113.60.camel@gandalf>

I am running Debian 3.2, kernel 2.4.18-k7

I am trying to install an ICQ application. 

$ sudo apt-get install alicq
Reading Package Lists... 39%

Later it says:
Segmentation faultsts... 39%

Under /var/lib/apt, I notice a lot of files whose access times are
recent to the time the command was issued, but with many files that have
access times that are old. I get the impression that the command failed
in reading the lists in that directory before the command died.

The command fails when run as sudo and when run directly as root in a
console. The stage of "Reading Package Lists" also fails when dselect is
run.

Running /usr/bin/stat on the files which show a recent access time show
that the files have also been modified, and in some cases, changed,
during the "Reading Package Lists" stage.

Can anyone give advice here and explain what apt-get is trying to do,
and how to get out of this "segfault" problem?

Thanks

Paul

-- 
Paul King 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon May 31 23:01:24 2004
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2004 02:01:24 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: postgres/perl, autocommit and BEGIN; COMMIT;
In-Reply-To: <200405310945.06819.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org>
References: <40B63EF2.5000800@alteeve.com> <40BAAB9A.2040803@sympatico.ca>
 <20040531122325.41B3B3FDD@cbbrowne.com> <200405310945.06819.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net>
Message-ID: 


On Mon, 31 May 2004, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> If invalid input ever touches your db layer then your software has a large
> bug.

Isn't consolidation supposed to check the datbase from time to time, and
whenever needed ? What's your input validation accuracy ? 6 nines ? Do you
really test for such compliance ? With 6 nines you have one error
guaranteed per million records, more if you count character errors and
digit errors. There ain't no such thing as 'perfect input validation'
afaik.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml