From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 1 19:24:59 2004 From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen) Date: Sun, 1 Aug 2004 15:24:59 -0400 Subject: Bell Sympatico Speed Stream modem: won't talk to Ethernet card In-Reply-To: <20040731135214.671.qmail-P9yqBGbbmvKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040731135214.671.qmail@web50909.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I am banging my head against sympatico as well, but one thing I did get from them is the modem has an http interface. Its address is 192.168.2.1. When you connect a windows box directly to it and use their software it sets the computer to 192.168.2.2. Usually they want you to connect to the modem for debugging purposes, this should do it. Grant Cullen JADALL Consulting Ltd. grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org 416-706-4447 -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Frank Peng Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 09:52 To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Bell Sympatico Speed Stream modem: won't talk to Ethernet card Hi,All! Is any body there get success with a Sympatico Speed Stream modem made by Effecient Networks company? I saw the Ethernet card kicks the modem 3 times. The modem won't response to it. I checked the Ethernet card by ifconfig, it has sent out 3 pockets but received nothing. When I run DEBUG=1 adsl-start, in the bottom of the report, I can see only 3 PADI pockets are sent out from the Ethernet card. I used different cards and different computers. The same thing. I called Sympatico, they are saying my modem is perfect working and they cannot help with Linux. I am using rp-pppoe 3.5. Cannot find anything newer than this. Thanks a lot! Frank Peng. _______________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. http://messenger.yahoo.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 2 15:42:52 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 08:42:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Bell Sympatico Speed Stream modem: won't talk to Ethernet card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040802154252.86570.qmail@web50909.mail.yahoo.com> So let's try first set up Linux eth1 as 192.168.2.2 and eth0 as 10.0.0.1 and the local network gateway 10.0.0.1 and the rest computer in the house as 10.0.0.2... DNS 204.101.251.1/2. Now I am using Windows to activate the modem and hopefully trick Sympatico to route the Internet into my 10.0.0. network. Any better idea? --- Grant Cullen wrote: > I am banging my head against sympatico as well, but > one thing I did get from > them is the modem has an http interface. Its > address is 192.168.2.1. When > you connect a windows box directly to it and use > their software it sets the > computer to 192.168.2.2. > > Usually they want you to connect to the modem for > debugging purposes, this > should do it. > > Grant Cullen > JADALL Consulting Ltd. > grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org > 416-706-4447 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On > Behalf Of Frank > Peng > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2004 09:52 > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: Bell Sympatico Speed Stream modem: > won't talk to > Ethernet card > > > Hi,All! > > Is any body there get success with a Sympatico Speed > Stream modem made by Effecient Networks company? > > I saw the Ethernet card kicks the modem 3 times. The > modem won't response to it. I checked the Ethernet > card by ifconfig, it has sent out 3 pockets but > received nothing. > > When I run DEBUG=1 adsl-start, in the bottom of the > report, I can see only 3 PADI pockets are sent out > from the Ethernet card. I used different cards and > different computers. The same thing. I called > Sympatico, they are saying my modem is perfect > working > and they cannot help with Linux. I am using rp-pppoe > 3.5. Cannot find anything newer than this. > > Thanks a lot! > > Frank Peng. > > > > _______________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download > now. > http://messenger.yahoo.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: > http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text > below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: > http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 2 20:15:17 2004 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2004 16:15:17 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: <410BD1C8.8040709-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040730021218.77BC740EB@cbbrowne.com> <410BD1C8.8040709@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <1091477717.24403.201535086@webmail.messagingengine.com> I suggest using the ncurses aptitude instead of the command line apt-get for package management. Aptitude is great for visualizing dependency relationships and unlike apt-get it keeps track of which packages are have been selected for installation vs. which are installed to satisfy a dependency. Actually there are lots of reasons to use it instead of apt-get or dselect but no need to get into details: once you start you'll never go back. ------------------- Andrew Malcolmson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 05:17:26 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 01:17:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: <1091477717.24403.201535086-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040730021218.77BC740EB@cbbrowne.com> <410BD1C8.8040709@truxtar.com> <1091477717.24403.201535086@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > I suggest using the ncurses aptitude instead of the command line apt-get > for package management. Aptitude is great for visualizing dependency > relationships and unlike apt-get it keeps track of which packages are > have been selected for installation vs. which are installed to satisfy a > dependency. > > Actually there are lots of reasons to use it instead of apt-get or > dselect but no need to get into details: once you start you'll never go > back. Ok, thanks, I will try it out. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 07:22:41 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 03:22:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: <1091477717.24403.201535086-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040730021218.77BC740EB@cbbrowne.com> <410BD1C8.8040709@truxtar.com> <1091477717.24403.201535086@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 2 Aug 2004, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > Actually there are lots of reasons to use it instead of apt-get or > dselect but no need to get into details: once you start you'll never go > back. Ok, I got aptitude and it is fairly easy to use. It reminds me of Suse yast1. I still have to make by scripts work w/o gui, curses or not, but one step at a time. thank you for your suggestion, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 02:04:36 2004 From: frank_peng_01-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Frank Peng) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Bell Sympatico Speed Stream modem: won't talk to Ethernet card In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040803020436.34921.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> Just let everybody knows it is Sympatico problem, not rp-pppoe's problem. After Sympatico guys fixed it on Windows. I hooked it up to Linux. 3 seconds...Connected! Just ifconfig eth1 0.0.0.0 then fire adsl-start in rc.local. As usual. The lesson is: first work it out on Windows, then move to Linux. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 2 21:25:09 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2004 22:25:09 +0100 Subject: Bell Sympatico Speed Stream modem: won't talk to Ethernet card In-Reply-To: <20040803020436.34921.qmail-fWN3QUsmKNiA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040803020436.34921.qmail@web50902.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040802222509.73bb7f82@pingu.opus> On Mon, 2 Aug 2004 19:04:36 -0700 (PDT) Frank Peng wrote: > Just let everybody knows it is Sympatico problem, not > rp-pppoe's problem. After Sympatico guys fixed it on > Windows. I hooked it up to Linux. 3 > seconds...Connected! > > Just ifconfig eth1 0.0.0.0 then fire adsl-start in > rc.local. As usual. > > The lesson is: first work it out on Windows, then move > to Linux. > Huh ? I have never had a Linux connection issues. It's alway's the ISP. Some of the ISP service techs especially Sympatico couldn't screw a light bulb in without consulting a manual :-P. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 12:43:39 2004 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Tue, 03 Aug 2004 08:43:39 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: References: <20040730021218.77BC740EB@cbbrowne.com> <410BD1C8.8040709@truxtar.com> <1091477717.24403.201535086@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <410F887B.6070908@imap-mail.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Ok, I got aptitude and it is fairly easy to use. It reminds me of Suse > yast1. I still have to make by scripts work w/o gui, curses or not, but > one step at a time. > > thank you for your suggestion, > You're welcome. I'd also suggest taking the time to read the manual - it's the README in aptitude's doc directory or there's an HTML version there too. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 15:31:50 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:31:50 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: References: <20040730010321.GH14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040803153150.GI14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 11:12:06AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > On Thu, 29 Jul 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >>I am giving up on this distro for now. > > > >Well your loss. It's not the system's fault when you tell it to do > >something unusual, and then don't know what to do when it needs help to > >continue doing the unusual thing. > > 'giving up' is relative. It is still running (I am posting from it), it's > just hard to shoehorn it into doing what I need. Basically nothing is > broken, but kde is deinstalled (it depended on the library I forced in). > > On Slack if you need 5 versions of a library you install them and they > coexist. I still have a 1.2.13 system running and I know this. There is no > similar system on Debian ? Debian does permit multiple versions of libraries, if they are actually different major versions, so that they don't ahve the same name. This is why debian names libs something like: libpng12 or libpam0g, rather than just libpng or libpam. Whenever a new API is made to the lib, the name shoudl change and so does the package name, so that programs using the old API can use the old libs, and programs using the new API need the new lib name. Where things can break is when packages demand a specific version, rather than just a minimum version, which causes things to complain or get uninstalled. The kde and to some extent gnome packages are terrible in this respect. The -dev packages (containing headers and static libs) depend on specific library versions, so if you manually install a library, make sure you manually install the maching -dev package as well just in case you ever want to compile anything using that lib. It should be available from the same location. If you don't, then the package system won't be able to install any -dev package for the lib that matches it (unless a newer one is avialable to upgrade both the lib and the -dev), and it will give the kinds of complains you got. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 15:43:38 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 11:43:38 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: References: <20040730005845.GG14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040803154338.GJ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 11:09:20AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Ah, pinning. I have seen this term in the documentation before. What is > pinning, exactly ? I take it that it sets priority for packages and then > the packaging system chooses packages with higher priority when it has > choices. No ? The documentation I have seen so far is severely lacking in > terminology description. A glossary added to the apt-howto would be a good > start imho. > > Thatnk you for your answers, it is very useful, Well here is how pinning works on Debian: I have a system runnign Debian Testing as it's main system. it could be stable as well (unstable is always unstable so no real point doing pinning on it). I have in my sources.list both testing and unstable lines, like this: deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free Then I have a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01default which contains: APT::Default-Release "testing"; This tells APT that whenever I install stuff or upgrade stuff, packages from testing are my preference. This prevents me getting everything upgraded to the unstable versions unless I explicitly request it. By default apt installs the newest version it has in its sources. When I install a package, I do: apt-get install packagenames, and I get the testing version. If instead I do: apt-get install -t unstable packagenames, I get the unstable release versions of those packages. To do it for individual packages I can do: apt-get install package1 package2/unstable package3, where package1 and 3 will be testing and package2 will be unstable. It will give similar errors to what you saw if it isn't possible to install a package without installing additional unstable packages. Usnig apt-get install -t unstable packagename, it will auto select dependancies from unstable. apt-showversions |grep unstable, is one way to check which packages are currently from unstable on the system. It can also show which are not up to date, or which are local and I think it can list obsolete too by some definition of obsolete. Once you install a package with a tagged versions, it will continue to use that versions when upgrading. So if you install the unstable version of libpng12, it will grab the latest version from unstable whenever you do an upgrade with apt-get. You can drop back down to the testing version using apt-get install packagename/testing which will force a downgrade (if testing and unstable are different versions at the time) and in either case will tag that package back to always using the testing version. If you wanted to you could add stable as well and tag packages from stable to be used as well. This setup allows you to mix and match which packages you really want the latest and greatest of, and which you would rather just have generally work. it doesn't always work, since sometimes a transition is taking place in unstable and libs go to hell and it start wanting to uninstall stuff. In that case either don't do an upgrade, or tell it which package to install the latest version of manually, and leave the troublesome packages for a few days until the libs finish the transition. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 19:10:46 2004 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:10:46 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: <1091477717.24403.201535086-2RFepEojUI2N1INw9kWLP6GC3tUn3ZHUQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040730021218.77BC740EB@cbbrowne.com> <410BD1C8.8040709@truxtar.com> <1091477717.24403.201535086@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20040803191045.GG19683@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> On Mon, Aug 02, 2004 at 04:15:17PM -0400 or thereabouts, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > I suggest using the ncurses aptitude instead of the command line apt-get > for package management. Aptitude is great for visualizing dependency > relationships and unlike apt-get it keeps track of which packages are > have been selected for installation vs. which are installed to satisfy a > dependency. > > Actually there are lots of reasons to use it instead of apt-get or > dselect but no need to get into details: once you start you'll never go > back. I agree aptitude is the 'way to go' as opposed to apt-get. Aptitude can be run from the command line much like apt-get, without using the ncurses interface (if one wishes). -- S.Allen ----------------------------------------------- barnyard Tuesday Aug 03 2004 03:05:01 PM EDT ----------------------------------------------- Advertising may be described as the science of arresting the human intelligence long enough to get money from it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 19:34:38 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 15:34:38 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: <20040803191045.GG19683-o7t0nEE3I5OSx4Gc7p/2BTaUPDSXGbtvYPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org> References: <20040730021218.77BC740EB@cbbrowne.com> <410BD1C8.8040709@truxtar.com> <1091477717.24403.201535086@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20040803191045.GG19683@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <20040803193438.GU28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 03:10:46PM -0400, Stephen Allen wrote: > I agree aptitude is the 'way to go' as opposed to apt-get. Aptitude can be run > from the command line much like apt-get, without using the ncurses interface (if > one wishes). I just managed to get Debian Testing installed on my NetWinder, and Aptitude seems to be the default package management tool for the installer. I'm quite happy with it! I'm happy to say that the installation went very smoothly, after several hours of fighting to get the installer to run in the first place. I'll be feeding back to the Testing people about that shortly. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 20:02:03 2004 From: Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org (Lance Nichols) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:02:03 -0400 Subject: relatively inexpensive PC Card (PCMCIA) wireless NIC In-Reply-To: <200407100958.59952.Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw@public.gmane.org> References: <200407100958.59952.Ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> Message-ID: <200408031602.10981.Ozymandias@pt-cruiser.net> Just as a follow up, my trip down to the US was delayed by a few days and I managed to pick up a refurbed/repackaged SMC card, that has worked like a charm. Many thanks to those who pointed out the various resources and suggestions for cards. Lance Nichols On Saturday 10 July 2004 09:58, Lance Nichols wrote: > I am traveling to the US starting early next week and the hotel the company > has booked me into seems to only offer wireless internet access. The Dell > c640 I have (company supplied dual booting between company Windows image > and PRO SUSE 9.1 image) was never equipped with the wireless card. > > So, rather then pony up the costs to rent a NIC daily, which may not work > in linux, I am looking to grab one quickly before I head south. Advantage > of this would be I could then use it @ home on my wireless network as well > when I get back.... > > So, does anyone have any good suggestions for inexpensive (<$60) wireless > NICs that are "garenteed" to run on this system? > > Lance > > PS, thanks for the input for a first time poster. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: signature URL: From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 20:37:25 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 16:37:25 -0400 Subject: relatively inexpensive PC Card (PCMCIA) wireless NIC Message-ID: Which SMC card do you have? I am having "constantly disconnecting from the WLAN" problem ever since I purchased my SMC PCMCIA card. -----Original Message----- From: Lance Nichols [mailto:Ozymandias-Ida6Ik9yc6yFX2APIN6yfw at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 3, 2004 4:02 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: relatively inexpensive PC Card (PCMCIA) wireless NIC Just as a follow up, my trip down to the US was delayed by a few days and I managed to pick up a refurbed/repackaged SMC card, that has worked like a charm. Many thanks to those who pointed out the various resources and suggestions for cards. Lance Nichols On Saturday 10 July 2004 09:58, Lance Nichols wrote: > I am traveling to the US starting early next week and the hotel the > company has booked me into seems to only offer wireless internet > access. The Dell c640 I have (company supplied dual booting between > company Windows image and PRO SUSE 9.1 image) was never equipped with > the wireless card. > > So, rather then pony up the costs to rent a NIC daily, which may not > work in linux, I am looking to grab one quickly before I head south. > Advantage of this would be I could then use it @ home on my wireless > network as well when I get back.... > > So, does anyone have any good suggestions for inexpensive (<$60) > wireless NICs that are "garenteed" to run on this system? > > Lance > > PS, thanks for the input for a first time poster. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 3 21:30:44 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 03 Aug 2004 17:30:44 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: <20040803154338.GJ14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040730005845.GG14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040803154338.GJ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) writes: > On Sat, Jul 31, 2004 at 11:09:20AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Ah, pinning. I have seen this term in the documentation before. What is > > pinning, exactly ? I take it that it sets priority for packages and then > > the packaging system chooses packages with higher priority when it has > > choices. No ? The documentation I have seen so far is severely lacking in > > terminology description. A glossary added to the apt-howto would be a good > > start imho. > > > > Thatnk you for your answers, it is very useful, > > Well here is how pinning works on Debian: > > I have a system runnign Debian Testing as it's main system. it could be > stable as well (unstable is always unstable so no real point doing > pinning on it). I have in my sources.list both testing and unstable > lines, like this: > > deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free > deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free > deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free > deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian unstable main contrib non-free > > Then I have a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01default which contains: > APT::Default-Release "testing"; Another way to do this is: % cat > /etc/apt/preferences X-comment: ==================== Track testing Package: * Pin: release a=testing Pin-Priority: 600 X-comment: ==================== Track stable (lower priority than testing) Package: * Pin: release a=stable Pin-Priority: 500 X-comment: ==================== Make unstable available (for manual selection) Package: * Pin: release a=unstable Pin-Priority: 50 ^D Using /etc/apt/preferences gives more flexibility. You can, for example, prevent a particular package from being upgraded. /etc/apt/preferences is documented in Chapters 5 and 6 of the Debian Reference Manual: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/reference.en.html and in the APT HOWTO: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html [snip] > apt-showversions |grep unstable, is one way to check which packages are > currently from unstable on the system. It can also show which are not > up to date, or which are local and I think it can list obsolete too by > some definition of obsolete. I think you mean "apt-show-versions" and you'll need the apt-show-versions package installed, i.e. apt-get install apt-show-versions > Once you install a package with a tagged versions, it will continue to > use that versions when upgrading. Is that true? I think it justs selects a package based on the priorities documented in apt_preferences(5). For example, on my system: halley:~# apt-show-versions | grep imagemagick imagemagick/unstable upgradeable from 5:6.0.2.5-1 to 5:6.0.3.5-2 halley:~# apt-get -s install imagemagick Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done imagemagick is already the newest version. 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 11 not upgraded. halley:~# apt-get -s -t unstable install imagemagick Reading Package Lists... Done Building Dependency Tree... Done The following extra packages will be installed: libjasper-1.701-1 libmagick6 libtiff4 libxml2 Suggested packages: html2ps libjasper-runtime Recommended packages: xml-core The following NEW packages will be installed: libjasper-1.701-1 libtiff4 The following packages will be upgraded: imagemagick libmagick6 libxml2 3 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 790 not upgraded. ... Similarly, apt-get upgrade won't upgrade imagemagick but apt-get -t unstable upgrade will. Along with everything else (so don't do this)! [snip] > This setup allows you to mix and match which packages you really want > the latest and greatest of, and which you would rather just have > generally work. it doesn't always work, since sometimes a transition is > taking place in unstable and libs go to hell and it start wanting to > uninstall stuff. In that case either don't do an upgrade, or tell it > which package to install the latest version of manually, and leave the > troublesome packages for a few days until the libs finish the > transition. Yes, it's not for everybody. If you're not comfortable with the Linux command line and Linux system administration but you want to use Debian as your desktop, straight testing is probably your best bet. On the other hand, if you're doing development on Debian you probably do need to become familiar with apt pinning. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 02:10:09 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:10:09 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: References: <20040730005845.GG14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040803154338.GJ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040804021009.GK14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 03, 2004 at 05:30:44PM -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > Another way to do this is: > > % cat > /etc/apt/preferences > X-comment: ==================== Track testing > Package: * > Pin: release a=testing > Pin-Priority: 600 > > X-comment: ==================== Track stable (lower priority than testing) > Package: * > Pin: release a=stable > Pin-Priority: 500 > > X-comment: ==================== Make unstable available (for manual selection) > Package: * > Pin: release a=unstable > Pin-Priority: 50 > ^D That is a heck of a lot more complicated, and I don't think they are exclusive of each other either. > Using /etc/apt/preferences gives more flexibility. You can, for example, > prevent a particular package from being upgraded. /etc/apt/preferences is > documented in Chapters 5 and 6 of the Debian Reference Manual: > > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/reference.en.html > > and in the APT HOWTO: > > http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/index.en.html > > [snip] > > > apt-showversions |grep unstable, is one way to check which packages are > > currently from unstable on the system. It can also show which are not > > up to date, or which are local and I think it can list obsolete too by > > some definition of obsolete. > > I think you mean "apt-show-versions" and you'll need the apt-show-versions > package installed, i.e. > > apt-get install apt-show-versions Yeah I missed a '-'. > > Once you install a package with a tagged versions, it will continue to > > use that versions when upgrading. > > Is that true? I think it justs selects a package based on the priorities > documented in apt_preferences(5). For example, on my system: Well in your case the proiorities decide what to do when you ask it to install something. Normally newest has highest priority. > halley:~# apt-show-versions | grep imagemagick > imagemagick/unstable upgradeable from 5:6.0.2.5-1 to 5:6.0.3.5-2 > halley:~# apt-get -s install imagemagick > Reading Package Lists... Done > Building Dependency Tree... Done > imagemagick is already the newest version. > 0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 11 not upgraded. > halley:~# apt-get -s -t unstable install imagemagick > Reading Package Lists... Done > Building Dependency Tree... Done > The following extra packages will be installed: > libjasper-1.701-1 libmagick6 libtiff4 libxml2 > Suggested packages: > html2ps libjasper-runtime > Recommended packages: > xml-core > The following NEW packages will be installed: > libjasper-1.701-1 libtiff4 > The following packages will be upgraded: > imagemagick libmagick6 libxml2 > 3 upgraded, 2 newly installed, 0 to remove and 790 not upgraded. > ... > > Similarly, > > apt-get upgrade > > won't upgrade imagemagick but > > apt-get -t unstable upgrade > > will. Along with everything else (so don't do this)! True when using the priority overrides you are doing. Not the case when using what I wrote. Then anything listed in apt-show-versions as coming from unstable, will upgrade when unstable has a new release. I find that rather handy (and one of the reasons I don't use the priority overrides method). > [snip] > > > This setup allows you to mix and match which packages you really want > > the latest and greatest of, and which you would rather just have > > generally work. it doesn't always work, since sometimes a transition is > > taking place in unstable and libs go to hell and it start wanting to > > uninstall stuff. In that case either don't do an upgrade, or tell it > > which package to install the latest version of manually, and leave the > > troublesome packages for a few days until the libs finish the > > transition. > > Yes, it's not for everybody. If you're not comfortable with the Linux > command line and Linux system administration but you want to use Debian as > your desktop, straight testing is probably your best bet. On the other hand, > if you're doing development on Debian you probably do need to become familiar > with apt pinning. It certainly can be very helpful. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 02:38:16 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:38:16 -0400 Subject: Strange errors in apache log Message-ID: <20040804023816.GA11442@butters.WorkGroup> I have been noticing strange entries in /var/log/apache2/errorlog. There are two a day and they look like: [Sun Aug 01 21:45:42 2004] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] File does not exist: /var/www/localhost/htdocs/pl [Mon Aug 02 05:40:46 2004] [error] [client 127.0.0.1] File does not exist: /var/www/localhost/htdocs/pl The errors always some at 21:45 and 05:40 so it would seem that they are coming from a cron job. I had a look at my cron job log and there wasn't any particular job running at those times. I ran a check for rootkits using rkhunter and everything checks out clean. Any suggestions of what I should do to identify this process? Noah -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 02:40:28 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 3 Aug 2004 22:40:28 -0400 Subject: debian dependecy hell In-Reply-To: References: <20040803154338.GJ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200408032240.28891.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 3, 2004 05:30 pm, Tim Writer wrote: > Using /etc/apt/preferences gives more flexibility. ?You can, for example, > prevent a particular package from being upgraded. ?/etc/apt/preferences is > documented in Chapters 5 and 6 of the Debian Reference Manual: The way I force a package to never be upgraded is like this: echo php4 hold | dpkg --set-selections Then when I want to allow upgrades to that package again, I do: echo php4 install | dpkg --set-selections I've customized my php4 package to gain a few extensions, so I want to make sure that I'll never accidentally overwrite that with a package upgrade. When I try to do a dist-upgrade right now it will tell me: The following packages have been kept back: php4 php4-cgi php4-imap Which is nice, I know now there's something new out there for my package (security updates in this case) and I can act accordingly. This seems like a simpler way of preventing a particular package upgrade though having all your package selection policies set via preferences has the advantage of a single point of reference. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 06:01:07 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 02:01:07 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin Message-ID: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, Does anyone have any advice on speeding up spam filtering. I'm using SpamAssassin with Evolution on Fedora 1. I've set up my rules to filter out my lists first then I use spamc then finally spamassassin to get anything spamc misses. It takes about 10-15 seconds per message sometimes for spamc to determine whether a message is spam. Any suggestions how I can speed this up? Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 14:06:19 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <1091599267.3836.16.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, jim ruxton wrote: > Hi, > Does anyone have any advice on speeding up spam filtering. I'm using > SpamAssassin with Evolution on Fedora 1. I've set up my rules to filter > out my lists first then I use spamc then finally spamassassin to get Hi Jim. Spamc/spamd uses the same ruleset as the spamassassin perl script by default. I think this is unnecessary duplication. Of course spamc/spamd could be configured differently to spamassassin but that really would be unnecessary complexity in most cases. > anything spamc misses. It takes about 10-15 seconds per message > sometimes for spamc to determine whether a message is spam. Any > suggestions how I can speed this up? Ordinarily I'd recommend spamc/spamd over spamassassin as they are so much faster but you are already using using spamc/spamd. So I'd say drop spamassaassin as a follow-up to spamc/spamd. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 14:29:35 2004 From: hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Hooman Baradaran) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 10:29:35 -0400 Subject: How to make Spam Assassin work? In-Reply-To: <1091599267.3836.16.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1091629775.4110f2cf61114@mymail.yorku.ca> Hi, I've had spamassassin setup for a few months now and I train it with about 50 emails per day. The level is at 1 and it doesn't get any spam. Recently it recognizes 1-3 emails per day but half the time it's good email (mostly TLUG!!). I hear spamassassin is really cool but for me the only good thing it does so far is making use of all the spam (now I can use them for training!). Anything I'm doing wrong? -- Hooman Baradaran hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org www.hoomanb.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 14:57:02 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 10:57:02 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp Message-ID: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> Hey, I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. I am at work and I want to email some pictures, however the file sizes are too big. I know that you can shrink the size of a file in Photoshop...but is there a way in gimp? I have gimp 2.0. I really don't want to have to shut down everything and boot up windows just to do this :). Thanks for any help. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 15:04:27 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 11:04:27 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <1091631422.3191.10.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <4110FAFB.9050103@alteeve.com> Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. I am at > work and I want to email some pictures, however the file sizes are too > big. I know that you can shrink the size of a file in Photoshop...but > is there a way in gimp? I have gimp 2.0. I really don't want to have > to shut down everything and boot up windows just to do this :). Thanks > for any help. > > Later > right-click on the image, choose: image -> scale image Set a new width or height and voila! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 15:13:43 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:13:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <1091631422.3191.10.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. I am at > work and I want to email some pictures, however the file sizes are too > big. I know that you can shrink the size of a file in Photoshop...but > is there a way in gimp? I have gimp 2.0. I really don't want to have > to shut down everything and boot up windows just to do this :). Thanks > for any help. It's much simpler to use ImageMagick: convert -size 100x100 -resize 100x100 file.jpg smallfile.jpg -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 15:19:23 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:19:23 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <1091631422.3191.10.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <200408041119.23346.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 4, 2004 10:57 am, Devin Whalen wrote: > I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. I am at > work and I want to email some pictures, however the file sizes are too > big. I know that you can shrink the size of a file in Photoshop...but > is there a way in gimp? I have gimp 2.0. I really don't want to have > to shut down everything and boot up windows just to do this :). Thanks > for any help. Not sure about gimp. I get my wife to use kpaint, it's brain-dead simple to use ;-) Personally I'd go with imagemagick as suggested by Chris. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 15:12:10 2004 From: pallen3-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Patrick Allen) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 11:12:10 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <1091631422.3191.10.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <4110FCCA.5070906@cogeco.ca> Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. Who does? Right click on your image, then Image-->Scale Image. This will allow you to change the size of your image. Remember to save. I'm not sure about batch re-sizing. (Haven't RTFM either) PA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 15:39:17 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 11:39:17 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <200408041119.23346.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> <200408041119.23346.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <1091633956.3191.16.camel@192.168.1.80> On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 11:19, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On August 4, 2004 10:57 am, Devin Whalen wrote: > > > I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. I am at > > work and I want to email some pictures, however the file sizes are too > > big. I know that you can shrink the size of a file in Photoshop...but > > is there a way in gimp? I have gimp 2.0. I really don't want to have > > to shut down everything and boot up windows just to do this :). Thanks > > for any help. > > Not sure about gimp. I get my wife to use kpaint, it's brain-dead simple to > use ;-) Personally I'd go with imagemagick as suggested by Chris. Wow! Thanks for all the replies everyone...and quick too :). I kinda figured there would be more too it than that...but oh, well...whatever works ;). I have been wondering about batch resizing though, so I could write a program to do to many pictures at once...so maybe imagemagick would do the trick. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 17:02:11 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:02:11 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <1091633956.3191.16.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> <200408041119.23346.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1091633956.3191.16.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <41111693.4030807@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 You can easily script The Gimp using Scheme or Perl. If you know Scheme, it would probably be easier, because Perl has a built-in console-like interpreter for it. I personally use Perl, because that's what I know, and it gives me power to do pretty much anything I want (interacting with the filesystem, networking, etc.). Granted, the Imagemagick resizing trick looks a lot simpler than the perl script I wrote for The Gimp, but for more complex operations, Perl scripting beats Photoshop's "Actions" any day! For more info about Perl and The Gimp: Devin Whalen wrote: > I have been wondering about batch resizing though, so I could write a > program to do to many pictures at once...so maybe imagemagick would do > the trick. > > Later > - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBERaRRreNkzrRRLQRAqv+AJ4/I37kILIaWp96Q0ztv8hoWLhtpACdHvAc a14tuQqcif0Sid3Pyn8EJ7M= =Z2s7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 17:23:41 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 13:23:41 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <41111693.4030807-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> <200408041119.23346.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1091633956.3191.16.camel@192.168.1.80> <41111693.4030807@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <1091640221.5472.2.camel@zbych> On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 13:02, Anton Markov wrote: > For more info about Perl and The Gimp: > Great thanks for this info. I have been using, till now, perl together with imagemagic, but it is a bit non-trivial. Perl with Gimp must certainly be powerful. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 20:41:23 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 16:41:23 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1091652083.4386.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi, > Hi Jim. Spamc/spamd uses the same ruleset as the spamassassin perl script > by default. I think this is unnecessary duplication. Strange thing is spamassassin does catch the odd spam that spamc misses. I'm not sure why this is. Is it typical for spamc to take so long to analyze a message. Sometimes it even takes up to 30 seconds. jim > Of course > spamc/spamd could be configured differently to spamassassin but that > really would be unnecessary complexity in most cases. > > > anything spamc misses. It takes about 10-15 seconds per message > > sometimes for spamc to determine whether a message is spam. Any > > suggestions how I can speed this up? > > Ordinarily I'd recommend spamc/spamd over spamassassin as they are so much > faster but you are already using using spamc/spamd. > > So I'd say drop spamassaassin as a follow-up to spamc/spamd. > > Cheers, > Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 21:04:07 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 17:04:07 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <1091652083.4386.3.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091652083.4386.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1091653446.4764.202.camel@nelson.michener.ca> On my Debian stable / qmail P2 333 with 128M of ram and approximately 50 messages per hour, the average message requires 3 - 5 seconds to process through spamc, and sometimes as long as 70 seconds. Is it possible that your system is underpowered, or you have a busy MTA with multiple messages being processed by spamc concurrently? -- michael On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 16:41, jim ruxton wrote: > Hi, > > > Hi Jim. Spamc/spamd uses the same ruleset as the spamassassin perl script > > by default. I think this is unnecessary duplication. > Strange thing is spamassassin does catch the odd spam that spamc misses. > I'm not sure why this is. Is it typical for spamc to take so long to > analyze a message. Sometimes it even takes up to 30 seconds. > jim > > Of course > > spamc/spamd could be configured differently to spamassassin but that > > really would be unnecessary complexity in most cases. > > > > > anything spamc misses. It takes about 10-15 seconds per message > > > sometimes for spamc to determine whether a message is spam. Any > > > suggestions how I can speed this up? > > > > Ordinarily I'd recommend spamc/spamd over spamassassin as they are so much > > faster but you are already using using spamc/spamd. > > > > So I'd say drop spamassaassin as a follow-up to spamc/spamd. > > > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 21:04:44 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 17:04:44 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin Message-ID: I used to use spamassassin on my debian machine. I remembered I used SpamAssassin daemon, not spamc/spamd. It only took couple of seconds processing the message. Try daemon intead. I now switched to DSPAM. -----Original Message----- From: Michael Coburn [mailto:michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 4, 2004 5:04 PM To: Toronto Linux Users Group Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Speeding up Spam Assassin On my Debian stable / qmail P2 333 with 128M of ram and approximately 50 messages per hour, the average message requires 3 - 5 seconds to process through spamc, and sometimes as long as 70 seconds. Is it possible that your system is underpowered, or you have a busy MTA with multiple messages being processed by spamc concurrently? -- michael On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 16:41, jim ruxton wrote: > Hi, > > > Hi Jim. Spamc/spamd uses the same ruleset as the spamassassin perl > > script by default. I think this is unnecessary duplication. > Strange thing is spamassassin does catch the odd spam that spamc > misses. I'm not sure why this is. Is it typical for spamc to take so > long to analyze a message. Sometimes it even takes up to 30 seconds. > jim > > Of course > > spamc/spamd could be configured differently to spamassassin but that > > really would be unnecessary complexity in most cases. > > > > > anything spamc misses. It takes about 10-15 seconds per message > > > sometimes for spamc to determine whether a message is spam. Any > > > suggestions how I can speed this up? > > > > Ordinarily I'd recommend spamc/spamd over spamassassin as they are > > so much faster but you are already using using spamc/spamd. > > > > So I'd say drop spamassaassin as a follow-up to spamc/spamd. > > > > Cheers, > > Rob > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:41114ec735251644312185! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 21:11:19 2004 From: akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adil Kodian) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 15:11:19 -0600 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <1091653446.4764.202.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091652083.4386.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091653446.4764.202.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <7aa37fa80408041411417dd76@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, 04 Aug 2004 17:04:07 -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > On my Debian stable / qmail P2 333 with 128M of ram and approximately 50 > messages per hour, the average message requires 3 - 5 seconds to process > through spamc, and sometimes as long as 70 seconds. If youve got a good amount of RAM on your machine (and it has a UPS and is stable), create a tmpfs partition, and mount it as /var/spool/postfix thus all spamassassin reading and writing will be done from memory. This will greatly speed up delivery. The downside is that you have to be really careful when you shut this machine down. Make sure that there are no messages in the mailq (either incoming or outgoing) before yuo shut the box down. I would suggest using two mailservers. Both receive a copy of the mail, and one is backup. THe live one has tmpfs. adil. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 00:17:43 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 20:17:43 -0400 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German Message-ID: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I ran knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in English, login is in English, then everything is in German. How can I install or run so that knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 02:21:51 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:21:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Phillip Qin wrote: > I used to use spamassassin on my debian machine. I remembered I used > SpamAssassin daemon, not spamc/spamd. It only took couple of seconds > processing the message. Try daemon intead. I now switched to DSPAM. Hi. spamd is the daemon and spamc is a utility to connect to it. I also use Debian and don't recall seeing the daemon renamed at any point. zen:~$ps ax | grep spam 415 ? S 0:21 /usr/sbin/spamd -c -d --pidfile=/var/run/spamd.pid Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 02:33:54 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:33:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <7aa37fa80408041411417dd76-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091652083.4386.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091653446.4764.202.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <7aa37fa80408041411417dd76@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Adil Kodian wrote: > If youve got a good amount of RAM on your machine (and it has a UPS > and is stable), create a tmpfs partition, and mount it as > /var/spool/postfix As a long time mail admin the idea of leaving the queue in ram caused me to develop a twitch just thinking about it :) > thus all spamassassin reading and writing will be done from memory. This can also be achieved if the box has enough memory to allow for a good disk cache. If a box using tmpfs for the queue runs short on memory reads will end up coming out of swap space anyway, somewhat negating the advantage of using it. > This will greatly speed up delivery. The downside is that you have to > be really careful when you shut this machine down. Make sure that > there are no messages in the mailq (either incoming or outgoing) > before yuo shut the box down. > > I would suggest using two mailservers. Both receive a copy of the > mail, and one is backup. THe live one has tmpfs. Personally I don't think the small advantage of always writing into ram is worth the extra complexity, given that with good caching you can almost always write into ram. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 02:34:07 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 22:34:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <1091652083.4386.3.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091652083.4386.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, jim ruxton wrote: > Strange thing is spamassassin does catch the odd spam that spamc misses. > I'm not sure why this is. Is it typical for spamc to take so long to > analyze a message. Sometimes it even takes up to 30 seconds. The only thing I can think of is the config is varying in some way. I just checked and spamd seems to be taking about 0.4sec to assess messages as clean here. This is a powerful box that is underloaded though. What are the specs of your mail server? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 03:04:02 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:04:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > I just checked and spamd seems to be taking about 0.4sec to assess > messages as clean here. This is a powerful box that is underloaded > though. What are the specs of your mail server? You can get SA to tell you where it is bogging down. Add the following to /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf: timelog_path /var/tmp and restart SA. Send a message through and then examine the SA logfile in /var/tmp. I bet the rbl checks are slowing things down. If that is the case, does adding the the following to /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf speed things up? skip_rbl_checks 1 Hope this sends your investigation in the right direction. Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 4 21:45:31 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Wed, 04 Aug 2004 23:45:31 +0200 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> Message-ID: <411158FB.8010100@onlink.net> I like knoppix hard disk installation. It has a nice blend of office and multimedia stuff. However I am working in the German KDE. I ?m assuming it is KDE that is in German because some of the individual applications are in English. I ?m having trouble emailing debian?knoppix"linuxtag.org )and no it ?s not a German kezboard problem= because I ?m just usine Replz To. Chris Aitken wrote: > I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I > ran knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in English, > login is in English, then everything is in German. How can I install > or run so that knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? > > Chris > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 03:57:07 2004 From: hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Hooman Baradaran) Date: Wed, 4 Aug 2004 23:57:07 -0400 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German In-Reply-To: <411158FB.8010100-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <411158FB.8010100@onlink.net> Message-ID: <200408042357.08069.hooman@yorku.ca> I think explicitly setting the language to english (I think lang=us) in boot time should fix this. If not (and since it sounds like you've already installed it) check out "knoppix" and "i18n" in "/etc/sysconfig" and change de to en. Chris Aitken wrote: > I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I > ran knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in English, > login is in English, then everything is in German. How can I install > or run so that knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? > > Chris -- Hooman Baradaran hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org www.hoomanb.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 06:31:05 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 02:31:05 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091687465.3848.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks Terry and everyone else for the suggestions. > You can get SA to tell you where it is bogging down. Add the following > to /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf: > > timelog_path /var/tmp I tried this. Here is my local.cf file: required_hits 5 rewrite_subject 1 subject_tag [SPAM] report_safe 0 timelog_path /var/tmp But when I looked for the flog file /var/tmp directory was empty?? Any thoughts why? Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 05:51:00 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 07:51:00 +0200 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <411158FB.8010100@onlink.net> <200408042357.08069.hooman@yorku.ca> Message-ID: <4111CAC4.6020506@onlink.net> Hooman Baradaran wrote: >I think explicitly setting the language to english (I think lang=us) in boot >time should fix this. If not (and since it sounds like you've already >installed it) check out "knoppix" and "i18n" in "/etc/sysconfig" and change >de to en. > Here is my i18n. Should I change the C to en? LANG="C" COUNTRY="us" LANG="C" LANGUAGE="us" CHARSET="iso8859-1" XMODIFIERS="" There is no knoppix directory. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 13:32:27 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:32:27 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin Message-ID: spamasassin is the init.d script in Debian to start/stop spamassassin daemon (spamd?). -----Original Message----- From: Robert Brockway [mailto:robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 4, 2004 10:22 PM To: 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Speeding up Spam Assassin On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Phillip Qin wrote: > I used to use spamassassin on my debian machine. I remembered I used > SpamAssassin daemon, not spamc/spamd. It only took couple of seconds > processing the message. Try daemon intead. I now switched to DSPAM. Hi. spamd is the daemon and spamc is a utility to connect to it. I also use Debian and don't recall seeing the daemon renamed at any point. zen:~$ps ax | grep spam 415 ? S 0:21 /usr/sbin/spamd -c -d --pidfile=/var/run/spamd.pid Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:4111994a66592008814047! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 13:34:39 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:34:39 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin Message-ID: Which mail server do you use? Have you checked mail log? -----Original Message----- From: jim ruxton [mailto:cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 5, 2004 2:31 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Speeding up Spam Assassin Thanks Terry and everyone else for the suggestions. > You can get SA to tell you where it is bogging down. Add the following > to /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf: > > timelog_path /var/tmp I tried this. Here is my local.cf file: required_hits 5 rewrite_subject 1 subject_tag [SPAM] report_safe 0 timelog_path /var/tmp But when I looked for the flog file /var/tmp directory was empty?? Any thoughts why? Jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:4111d45c86721815336256! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 13:42:44 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 09:42:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Phillip Qin wrote: > spamasassin is the init.d script in Debian to start/stop spamassassin daemon > (spamd?). Yep. Sounds like we were talking about the same thing using different terminology. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 07:46:59 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 09:46:59 +0200 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <411158FB.8010100@onlink.net> <200408042357.08069.hooman@yorku.ca> Message-ID: <4111E5F3.3040409@onlink.net> Hooman Baradaran wrote: >I think explicitly setting the language to english (I think lang=us) in boot >time should fix this. > I tried that. knoppix lang=us for some reason did nothing. I think that has to be invoked *before* the installation. There's a reference to this at http://knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8171 I may have to reinstall which only takes about a half hour. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 14:15:22 2004 From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 10:15:22 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <1091631422.3191.10.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <200408051015.22320.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca> Simple graphic handling: Xnview at http://www.xnview.com/ uses batch graphic file handling : nconvert (at the same URL) Dunc On Wednesday 04 August 2004 10:57 am, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. I am at > work and I want to email some pictures, however the file sizes are too > big. I know that you can shrink the size of a file in Photoshop...but > is there a way in gimp? I have gimp 2.0. I really don't want to have > to shut down everything and boot up windows just to do this :). Thanks > for any help. > > Later -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 15:51:19 2004 From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:51:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: kewl sites: instrastructures.org, genderchangers.org Message-ID: I've just stumbled across an unusually well written Unix-community infotech site, http://www.infrastructures.org. The site suggests that a new discipline of 'infrastructure architecture' is emerging, as a sort of next step up from the traditional discipline of sysadmin. Also of interest: ingeniously organized http://www.genderchangers.org/, the Web presence of a society of women seeking to create a girlz-only Linux support space. Very rapidly, Tom = Tom Karmo http://www.metascientia.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 16:04:54 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:04:54 -0400 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German In-Reply-To: <4111E5F3.3040409-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <200408042357.08069.hooman@yorku.ca> <4111E5F3.3040409@onlink.net> Message-ID: <200408051204.54297.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 5, 2004 03:46 am, Chris Aitken wrote: > I tried that. knoppix lang=us for some reason did nothing. I think that > has to be invoked *before* the installation. There's a reference to this > at http://knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8171 > I may have to reinstall which only takes about a half hour. KDE has a control panel, use it to change the language ... I'm sure there's also a config file somewhere but you'll find the language config easier in the control panel. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 12:33:28 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 14:33:28 +0200 Subject: Thanks -> was:Knoppix 3.1 in German References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> Message-ID: <41122918.7000505@onlink.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I > ran knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in English, > login is in English, then everything is in German. How can I install > or run so that knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? Thanks for the help. There are GUI tools for both the keyboard (KDE Keyboard Tool) and KDE (Control Centre > Personalization > Country & Language). Everything is in English now and persisting from login-to-login. I may have finally found in knoppix 3.4 Live (hard disk installation) an OS I can call "home" (I know I've said that before). It has Open Office, Mozilla Messenger (unlike SuSE 9.1 Personal), cups printing works "out-of-the-box" (unlike knoppix 3.4) and lots of music software! Of course lilo refuses to see the Windows 98 SE partition - it saw it while running live off the CD but the hard disk installation doesn't see it. I'll research that a little before I trouble this list again. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 19:53:51 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 15:53:51 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI Message-ID: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> Hi all, I've got an odd problem... I am trying to pass file and directory names over a link by using (as an example): http://192.168.1.99/cgi-bin/show-dirs.cgi?file_name=on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] Where the file name is in fact: on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] The problem is that it seems when I pick the variable back up in the 'show-dirs.cgi' script the '%20' has been converted to a whitespace so the file becomes: on-screen ping pong[1] I understand that '%20' means in a URL 'whitespace' so I am not too surprised but I am a little bit lost as to how to get around this. I suppose if worse came to worse I could substite '%20' for something of my own making before creating the link and then convert it back after I pick the variable up from CGI. I worry though that whatever I come up with might be in another file name (I have no control over file names) and i would simply replace one problem with another. This is double confused by the fact that actual white-spaces in a name are themselves converted to '%20', too. Is there a way to preserve the '%20' in a url? Would it fix my problem to use a form instead? Thanks for any advice! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 19:57:06 2004 From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 15:57:06 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <4112904F.2050109-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040805195706.GB1851@smtp.paip.net> On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 03:53:51PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got an odd problem... I am trying to pass file and directory > names over a link by using (as an example): > > http://192.168.1.99/cgi-bin/show-dirs.cgi?file_name=on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] > > Where the file name is in fact: > > on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] If you have a literal "%" in the string you want submitted in a URL, you need to escape it as "%25" [in the same way as a space is escaped as "%20".] So your URL should be: ...?filename=on-screen%2520ping%2520pong[1] - Ian -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 20:08:38 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 16:08:38 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <4112904F.2050109-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040805200838.GI28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 03:53:51PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > > http://192.168.1.99/cgi-bin/show-dirs.cgi?file_name=on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] > > Where the file name is in fact: > > on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] > > > I understand that '%20' means in a URL 'whitespace' so I am not too > surprised but I am a little bit lost as to how to get around this. > > Is there a way to preserve the '%20' in a url? Would it fix my problem > to use a form instead? Thanks for any advice! The % notation in the URL is a way of escaping arbitrary ASCII characters. ASCII 0x20 is the space character. I imagine that the "correct" way to embed % into a URL is to use %25 (because % is 0x25). So, you'd get: http://192.168.1.99/cgi-bin/show-dirs.cgi?file_name=on-screen%2520ping%2520pong[1] See section 2.4.1 of RFC2396: Uniform Resource Identifiers (URI): Generic Syntax http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2396.txt -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 20:07:52 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 16:07:52 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <4112904F.2050109-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1091736472.5423.7.camel@zbych> On Thu, 2004-08-05 at 15:53, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I've got an odd problem... I am trying to pass file and directory > names over a link by using (as an example): > > http://192.168.1.99/cgi-bin/show-dirs.cgi?file_name=on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] > > Where the file name is in fact: > > on-screen%20ping%20pong[1] > > The problem is that it seems when I pick the variable back up in the > 'show-dirs.cgi' script the '%20' has been converted to a whitespace so > the file becomes: > > on-screen ping pong[1] > > I understand that '%20' means in a URL 'whitespace' so I am not too > surprised but I am a little bit lost as to how to get around this. > > I suppose if worse came to worse I could substite '%20' for something of > my own making before creating the link and then convert it back after I > pick the variable up from CGI. I worry though that whatever I come up > with might be in another file name (I have no control over file names) > and i would simply replace one problem with another. This is double > confused by the fact that actual white-spaces in a name are themselves > converted to '%20', too. > > Is there a way to preserve the '%20' in a url? Would it fix my problem > to use a form instead? Thanks for any advice! I might be wrong, simply not understanding something. But... may be you can "double" convert on the script side in the following way: Instead of sending %20 to URL, send encoded values for %, 2, 0. In this case, it would get encoded as %25%32%30 Where do I know this from? Some time ago there was a virus/warm spreading out through IIS server. It exploited the fact that, between others, that URL has not been handled properly by IIS - it did "decoding" twice instead of once. By using that volnurability, it was possible to brak up into IIS (by providing double-encoded URL)and get any files that were available to process user under which IIS run (often admin), on entire machine... So, just per analogy this idea come to my silly mind. zb. > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 02:54:55 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 22:54:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: <1091599267.3836.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091652083.4386.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091653446.4764.202.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <7aa37fa80408041411417dd76@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Adil Kodian wrote: > >> If youve got a good amount of RAM on your machine (and it has a UPS >> and is stable), create a tmpfs partition, and mount it as >> /var/spool/postfix > > As a long time mail admin the idea of leaving the queue in ram caused me > to develop a twitch just thinking about it :) > >> thus all spamassassin reading and writing will be done from memory. It should be more beneficial to put the spamassasin binary and especially its tables in ram. The email is relatively small wrt. the tables and the major bottleneck is probably the table lookup (I presume it uses some sort of hash or advanced bits-and-mask to look inside the messages). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 02:52:21 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 22:52:21 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German In-Reply-To: <41117CA7.407-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Chris Aitken wrote: > I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I ran > knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in English, login is > in English, then everything is in German. How can I install or run so that > knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? If that's any help, on knoppix 3.4 the khelpcenter index (the left frame) is in German, and the contents (the right frame) is in English ;-) Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 20:28:05 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 16:28:05 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <1091640221.5472.2.camel@zbych> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> <200408041119.23346.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1091633956.3191.16.camel@192.168.1.80> <41111693.4030807@truxtar.com> <1091640221.5472.2.camel@zbych> Message-ID: <1091737685.5448.22.camel@zbych> I wrote happily a day ago: On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 13:23, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 13:02, Anton Markov wrote: > > For more info about Perl and The Gimp: > > > > Great thanks for this info. > > I have been using, till now, perl together with imagemagic, but it is a > bit non-trivial. Perl with Gimp must certainly be powerful. But... there is a butt. Gimp-1.211 does not install on all systems so easy. It gives out a message like this, when running perl Makefile.PL: FATAL: unable to deduce plugindir from gimptool script A bit silly error. I looked to Google but could find only that others had the same problem often, while no conclusive solution seems to be known. Initially, I used all that with Gimp that has been installed with Fedora Core 1, discovering that it for some strange reason does NOT have gimptool around. But after that I installed the newest Gimp from gimp.org, and now gimptool is available. Anybody around by chance, could advice? zb. > zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 20:33:39 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 16:33:39 -0400 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German In-Reply-To: References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> Message-ID: <411299A3.2040304@detachednetworks.ca> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Chris Aitken wrote: > >> I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I >> ran knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in >> English, login is in English, then everything is in German. How can I >> install or run so that knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? > > > If that's any help, on knoppix 3.4 the khelpcenter index (the left > frame) is in German, and the contents (the right frame) is in English ;-) > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml try editing /etc/init.d/knopix-autoconfig change: ( aprox line 97 ) ### localization # Allow language specification via commandline. The default language # will be overridden via "lang=de" boot commandline LANGUAGE="$(getbootparam lang 2>/dev/null)" [ -n "$LANGUAGE" ] || LANGUAGE="de" # The default language/keyboard to use. This CANNOT be autoprobed. # Most of these variables will be used to generate the KDE defaults # and will be inserted into /etc/sysconfig/* below. case "$LANGUAGE" in de) to the appropriate settings you want to load by default on boot ( ie: us ) That should do the trick I think. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 14:39:41 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 16:39:41 +0200 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <411299A3.2040304@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <411246AD.3010902@onlink.net> Jason Shein wrote: > Peter L. Peres wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Chris Aitken wrote: >> >>> I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I >>> ran knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in >>> English, login is in English, then everything is in German. How can >>> I install or run so that knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? >> > try editing /etc/init.d/knoppix-autoconfig > > change: ( aprox line 97 ) > > ### localization > # Allow language specification via commandline. The default language > # will be overridden via "lang=de" boot commandline > LANGUAGE="$(getbootparam lang 2>/dev/null)" > [ -n "$LANGUAGE" ] || LANGUAGE="de" > > # The default language/keyboard to use. This CANNOT be autoprobed. > # Most of these variables will be used to generate the KDE defaults > # and will be inserted into /etc/sysconfig/* below. > case "$LANGUAGE" in > de) > > to the appropriate settings you want to load by default on boot ( ie: > us ) > > That should do the trick I think. Thanks -- that was a bit of work you put into this. I ended up changing keyboard and KDE language the GUI tools KDE Keyboard Tool and Control Centre > Personalization > Country & Language. Everything is in English now and persisting from login-to-login. However, if KDE ever misbehaves and I have to do this from command-line I'll have your saved email instructions. Thanks. : ) Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 21:59:23 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 17:59:23 -0400 Subject: new patch for Bash-3.0 In-Reply-To: <20040805215423.GA2937-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040805215423.GA2937@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <20040805215923.GA3029@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, While I was away, Bash-3.0 was released. My shell patch is now against Bash-3.0. Ref: http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#bash help ... Highlights are - integer/character generator (from Zsh) - list comprehension, content filtering (from Python) - try-block and exception (from Python) - string operation (from Chris) - extended for/while/until loops to handle exit condition (from Python) - extended case for regex(3), continuation (Ksh/Zsh), exit condition (Python) - simple GDBM/SQLite/MySQL/PostgreSQL interface. - sscanf(3) wrapper - multiple for-loop variables Summary of some syntax: {a..b} {a--b} {**} {##} {^var} ${var|command} ${var|+n} -- skip every n'th item ${var|++n} -- repeat until all items are selected ${var|^} -- convert first char to uppercase ${var|^^} -- convert all chars to uppercase ${var|^pat} -- convert first char, if member of pattern ${var|^^pat} -- convert all chars, if member of pattern ${var|_} -- convert first char to lowercase ${var|__} -- convert all chars to lowercase ${var|_pat} -- convert first char, if member of pattern ${var|__pat} -- convert all chars, if member of pattern ${var|~} -- toggle first char ${var|~~} -- toggle all chars ${var|~pat} -- convert first char, if member of pattern ${var|~~pat} -- convert all chars, if member of pattern ${var|>n} -- shift right n char, pad with space ${var|>>n} -- rotate right n char ${var| Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 22:16:19 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:16:19 -0400 Subject: Ignorance and shrinking The Gimp-Perl In-Reply-To: <1091737685.5448.22.camel@zbych> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> <200408041119.23346.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1091633956.3191.16.camel@192.168.1.80> <41111693.4030807@truxtar.com> <1091640221.5472.2.camel@zbych> <1091737685.5448.22.camel@zbych> Message-ID: <1091744179.5448.53.camel@zbych> Often, sending e-mail with questions to a mailing list causes that the sender mobilizes himself to find out the solution of the problem by her own way. I was finally able to install (possibly properly) the perl extension to The Gimp. But frankly, I do not remember how I did that. Anyway, I want to write these few words for reasons I am going to explain. I did go through http://gtk2-perl.sourceforge.net/ - that helped at certain moment. I had to add /usr/local/lib to /etc/ld.config . It probably helped too. BTW, why Linux installations would not have /usr/local/lib in /etc/ld.config by default? Would that hurt? What is my point? Ignorance. Of users and developers of Linux software. This particular perl module is certainly not documented and tested well (documentation contains even misleading information). Sure, I am glad that the author wrote it, spend a lot of his time on that work, make it available for free use, gave the source code for free. But the most important seems documentation. Developers often do not document well their programs and environment in which they tested them. Users, from another hand, when reporting problems, do not care to write back and explain how they were able to solve these problems (if they were able, and it is possible that in the case of most of these usenet messages with questions, dingling out of google, they finally were able to solve their problems). So, just to raise that point, and provide my incomplete though information about my way of solving the problem, I am responding again to my own message. In any case, I am happy that I can use Gimp as a Perl module. Will it work? zb. On Thu, 2004-08-05 at 16:28, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > I wrote happily a day ago: > > On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 13:23, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 13:02, Anton Markov wrote: > > > For more info about Perl and The Gimp: > > > > > > > Great thanks for this info. > > > > I have been using, till now, perl together with imagemagic, but it is a > > bit non-trivial. Perl with Gimp must certainly be powerful. > > But... there is a butt. > > Gimp-1.211 does not install on all systems so easy. It gives out a > message like this, when running perl Makefile.PL: > > FATAL: unable to deduce plugindir from gimptool script > > A bit silly error. I looked to Google but could find only that others > had the same problem often, while no conclusive solution seems to be > known. > > Initially, I used all that with Gimp that has been installed with Fedora > Core 1, discovering that it for some strange reason does NOT have > gimptool around. But after that I installed the newest Gimp from > gimp.org, and now gimptool is available. > > Anybody around by chance, could advice? > > zb. > > > zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 18:58:27 2004 From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 19:58:27 +0100 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German In-Reply-To: <200408051204.54297.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <200408042357.08069.hooman@yorku.ca> <4111E5F3.3040409@onlink.net> <200408051204.54297.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040805195827.1fc10392@pingu.opus> On Thu, 5 Aug 2004 12:04:54 -0400 Fraser Campbell wrote: > On August 5, 2004 03:46 am, Chris Aitken wrote: > > > I tried that. knoppix lang=us for some reason did nothing. I think that > > has to be invoked *before* the installation. There's a reference to this > > at http://knoppix.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8171 > > I may have to reinstall which only takes about a half hour. > > KDE has a control panel, use it to change the language ... I'm sure there's > also a config file somewhere but you'll find the language config easier in > the control panel. > Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ > Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux Yep and it's also at the bottom right of the control panel the little flag icon. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 5 22:06:28 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 18:06:28 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <4112904F.2050109-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> Madison Kelly wrote: > > Is there a way to preserve the '%20' in a url? CGI::Enurl handles this, so you don't have to. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 00:51:22 2004 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:51:22 +1000 Subject: infrastructures.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091753482.17097.13.camel@sirius> A lot of people don't realize there has been *considerable* formal research regarding infrastructure architecture and configuration management. On Thu, 2004-08-05 at 11:50 +0000, "" wrote: > http://www.infrastructures.org. Is the online, updated version of a paper written by Traugott and Huddleson and presented at the 12th Large Installation Systems Administration Conference (LISA '98). Excellent progress has been made building on that work since then. Anyone interested in the topic would do well do read the papers from USENIX & SAGE's LISA conferences from about '99 onwards. They're available online at http://www.usenix.org/events/bytopic/lisa.html This year's LISA conference is in Atlanta in mid November. Their program was just posted; available here: http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa04/ . It's a good crowd. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie OPERATIONAL DYNAMICS Operations Consultants and Infrastructure Engineers http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 01:04:53 2004 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 21:04:53 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <4112AF64.6050201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 06:06:28PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >Is there a way to preserve the '%20' in a url? > > CGI::Enurl handles this, so you don't have to. So does URI::Escape::uri_escape. Probably many others (there's one in CGI.pm for sure). -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 01:19:53 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 21:19:53 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <20040806010453.GA10820-Aco4KUUxZ1MCzWx7n4ubxQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> Message-ID: <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> Rick Delaney wrote: >On Thu, Aug 05, 2004 at 06:06:28PM -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > > >>Madison Kelly wrote: >> >> >>>Is there a way to preserve the '%20' in a url? >>> >>> >>CGI::Enurl handles this, so you don't have to. >> >> > >So does URI::Escape::uri_escape. Probably many others (there's one in >CGI.pm for sure). > > > Sometime I think: what for are these .pm's? Most of these things could be done without them. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 04:05:57 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:05:57 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091765157.3830.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Still not getting anything in /var/tmp but here is some output from /var/maillog . My machine is a P3 1 GHz machine with 512 M ram. Are the following speeds normal.. Jim 7.0.0.1] at port 32793 Aug 5 23:29:03 localhost spamd[3874]: info: setuid to jim succeeded Aug 5 23:29:04 localhost spamd[3874]: checking message for jim:500. Aug 5 23:29:10 localhost spamd[3874]: clean message (-0.1/5.0) for jim:500 in 6 .7 seconds, 22980 bytes. Aug 5 23:29:15 localhost spamd[3572]: connection from localhost.localdomain [12 7.0.0.1] at port 32794 Aug 5 23:29:15 localhost spamd[3878]: info: setuid to jim succeeded Aug 5 23:29:15 localhost spamd[3878]: checking message <110001c47b54$c78dbdf9$2 ebd3db0-evp3iDK26250Q49UN2FMpg at public.gmane.org> for jim:500. Aug 5 23:29:24 localhost spamd[3878]: clean message (4.4/5.0) for jim:500 in 9. 0 seconds, 5185 bytes. Aug 5 23:29:32 localhost spamd[3572]: connection from localhost.localdomain [12 7.0.0.1] at port 32795 Aug 5 23:29:32 localhost spamd[3882]: info: setuid to jim succeeded Aug 5 23:29:32 localhost spamd[3882]: checking message for jim:500. Aug 5 23:29:40 localhost spamd[3882]: clean message (-0.3/5.0) for jim:500 in 7 .7 seconds, 6935 bytes. Aug 5 23:29:50 localhost spamd[3572]: connection from localhost.localdomain [12 7.0.0.1] at port 32796 Aug 5 23:29:50 localhost spamd[3886]: info: setuid to jim succeeded Aug 5 23:29:50 localhost spamd[3886]: checking message for jim:500. Aug 5 23:29:56 localhost spamd[3886]: clean message (0.2/5.0) for jim:500 in 6. 6 seconds, 8012 bytes. Aug 5 23:30:05 localhost spamd[3572]: connection from localhost.localdomain [12 7.0.0.1] at port 32797 Aug 5 23:30:05 localhost spamd[3890]: info: setuid to jim succeeded Aug 5 23:30:05 localhost spamd[3890]: checking message <218278m0vvz9$kf4m0i14$0 830i6h3 at ZF954133681805> for jim:500. On Wed, 2004-08-04 at 23:04, Terry Tanski wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > > > I just checked and spamd seems to be taking about 0.4sec to assess > > messages as clean here. This is a powerful box that is underloaded > > though. What are the specs of your mail server? > > You can get SA to tell you where it is bogging down. Add the following > to /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf: > > timelog_path /var/tmp > > and restart SA. Send a message through and then examine the SA logfile > in /var/tmp. I bet the rbl checks are slowing things down. If that is > the case, does adding the the following to > /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf speed things up? > > skip_rbl_checks 1 > > Hope this sends your investigation in the right direction. > > Terry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 04:09:48 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 00:09:48 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do Message-ID: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> Today some punk tried to hack my system by trying to log in as root to my ssh server. There was no problem and I mailed Abuse and Admin at his ISP. This attempt was unusual due to the number of attempts. I notice a couple of HTTP attacks every day. What do people do about this nonsense. I am thinking of starting to aggressively mail ISPs as determined by whois and demand that users be warned and/or censured. Any thoughts? -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 04:17:59 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 00:17:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <1091765157.3830.6.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1091765157.3830.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, jim ruxton wrote: > Still not getting anything in /var/tmp but here is some output from > /var/maillog . My machine is a P3 1 GHz machine with 512 M ram. Are the > following speeds normal.. My Athlon XP 1.7GHz (say twice the speed of the P3 1GHz) is averaging 0.4 seconds. I think those speeds are way slow. Did you turn off RBL checks as someone suggested? What does top say? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 04:20:24 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 00:20:24 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <20040806040948.GA968-y6Pr2RmEDtOJK1hZEW34O3gSJqDPrsil@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> Message-ID: <41130708.1010803@detachednetworks.ca> Noah John Gellner wrote: >Today some punk tried to hack my system by trying to log in as root to >my ssh server. There was no problem and I mailed Abuse and Admin at his >ISP. This attempt was unusual due to the number of attempts. I notice a >couple of HTTP attacks every day. What do people do about this nonsense. >I am thinking of starting to aggressively mail ISPs as determined by >whois and demand that users be warned and/or censured. Any thoughts? > > > This works well http://www.cipherdyne.org/fwknop/ -snip- fwknop stands for "Firewall Knock Operator" fwknop implements network access controls (via iptables) based on a flexible port knocking mini-language, but with a twist; it combines port knocking and passive operating system fingerprinting to make it possible to do things like only allow, say, Linux-2.4/2.6 systems to connect to your SSH daemon. fwknop supports shared, multi-protocol port knock sequences along with both relative and absolute timeouts, and coded port knock sequences encrypted with the Rijndael block cipher. -snip- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 03:38:44 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 5 Aug 2004 23:38:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <20040805200838.GI28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <20040805200838.GI28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > The % notation in the URL is a way of escaping arbitrary ASCII characters. > ASCII 0x20 is the space character. I imagine that the "correct" way to > embed % into a URL is to use %25 (because % is 0x25). and if you want to test the limits of the system try an url that contains %00 (several times). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 15:46:37 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 11:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German In-Reply-To: <411299A3.2040304-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <411299A3.2040304@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Jason Shein wrote: > try editing /etc/init.d/knopix-autoconfig It is se tup like that (lang=en). The problem is inconsistency in kde. Me I am moving to fvwm. I have a learning curve to handle since the new fvwm is much more complex than the old I was used to (1998). thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 12:29:11 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 08:29:11 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <4112DCB9.9010003-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> Message-ID: <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > Sometime I think: what for are these .pm's? Most of these things could > be done without them. That may be so, but I know I'd much rather use someone else's tested, maintained code than have to write my own. In Perl, laziness is a virtue. I'm still recovering from working at a shop where they'd decided that CGI.pm was 'too big, too slow', and had handrolled their own CGI parameter code. It wouldn't work with certain browsers or types of requests, had numerous bugs, could be spoofed quite easily, and was probably less efficient than CGI.pm. And we had to spend ages working around it, and there was nothing compatible with it, so we had to write even more code to replicate existing modules. Go figure. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 12:44:11 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 08:44:11 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <41137997.6060201-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > >> >> Sometime I think: what for are these .pm's? Most of these things >> could be done without them. > > > That may be so, but I know I'd much rather use someone else's tested, > maintained code than have to write my own. In Perl, laziness is a virtue. > > I'm still recovering from working at a shop where they'd decided that > CGI.pm was 'too big, too slow', and had handrolled their own CGI > parameter code. It wouldn't work with certain browsers or types of > requests, had numerous bugs, could be spoofed quite easily, and was > probably less efficient than CGI.pm. And we had to spend ages working > around it, and there was nothing compatible with it, so we had to write > even more code to replicate existing modules. Go figure. > > Stewart Hi, I'll be adding the "%25" substitute in now to test. A question though; would one of those 'pm' modules do this well: - I use 'ls' to pass the file names in a directory to perl - perl then pushes that file name to a postres db - later the file name is pulled back up and then 'rsync' is called using that file name. - through all of this the filename can be passed to the script over CGI I am not too familiar with 'pm' modules I'm afraid I'm not to sure how to use them properly yet. Also, would one of these modules help ensure that other special characters and possibly unicode characters in file names where properly handled, too? Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 12:50:50 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 08:50:50 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <20040806040948.GA968-y6Pr2RmEDtOJK1hZEW34O3gSJqDPrsil@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> Message-ID: <1091796648.11993.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-08-06 at 00:09, Noah John Gellner wrote: > Today some punk tried to hack my system by trying to log in as root to > my ssh server. There was no problem and I mailed Abuse and Admin at his > ISP. This attempt was unusual due to the number of attempts. I notice a > couple of HTTP attacks every day. What do people do about this nonsense. > I am thinking of starting to aggressively mail ISPs as determined by > whois and demand that users be warned and/or censured. Any thoughts? This has happened a few times to me in the last couple of weeks. I've been adding the IP's to hosts.deny, but might script this one off as a cron job. Seems to be happening more and more frequently. It's not a perfect solution, but it helps reduce the risk I think. Also, I don't need SSH access for root on the system, so I set PermitRootLogin no in sshd_config, which should also help close that nasty little door. Would a local, publicly-maintained, blacklist be of any use? (Or perhaps a harder question, could it be maintained/managed?) - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 12:59:33 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:59:33 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <41137D1B.8020702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <200408060859.33600.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 6, 2004 08:44 am, Madison Kelly wrote: > I'll be adding the "%25" substitute in now to test. A question > though; would one of those 'pm' modules do this well: > > - I use 'ls' to pass the file names in a directory to perl > - perl then pushes that file name to a postres db > - later the file name is pulled back up and then 'rsync' is called using > that file name. > - through all of this the filename can be passed to the script over CGI > > I am not too familiar with 'pm' modules I'm afraid I'm not to sure > how to use them properly yet. Also, would one of these modules help > ensure that other special characters and possibly unicode characters in > file names where properly handled, too? Thanks! use URI::Escape; $file = uri_escape($file); Look at the URI::Escape manpage, there will be other modules (perhaps better) URI::Escape is just the one that I am familiar with. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 12:59:41 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 08:59:41 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <41137D1B.8020702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <7AF7B7B2-E7A8-11D8-860C-00050249A5C8@istop.com> On Aug 6, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Madison Kelly wrote: > Also, would one of these modules help ensure that other special > characters and possibly unicode characters in file names where > properly handled, too? Thanks! I'm not sure of all the fine print, but try 'perldoc URI::Escape'. Example: use URI::Escape; my $escaped = uri_escape("file with embedded %20"); print "$escaped\n"; ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 13:16:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:16:39 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <41137D1B.8020702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040806131639.GL14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 08:44:11AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I'll be adding the "%25" substitute in now to test. A question > though; would one of those 'pm' modules do this well: > > - I use 'ls' to pass the file names in a directory to perl readdir is probably better and more efficient than using ls. Well readdir and stat maybe, Calling fork and exec to another process is not the cheapest system call to make. > - perl then pushes that file name to a postres db > - later the file name is pulled back up and then 'rsync' is called using > that file name. > - through all of this the filename can be passed to the script over CGI > > I am not too familiar with 'pm' modules I'm afraid I'm not to sure > how to use them properly yet. Also, would one of these modules help > ensure that other special characters and possibly unicode characters in > file names where properly handled, too? Thanks! Usually man has info on each perl module with examples of how to use them. ie: man CGI (or man 3perl CGI if you want) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 13:21:28 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:21:28 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <20040806131639.GL14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> <20040806131639.GL14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <411385D8.3020100@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 08:44:11AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I'll be adding the "%25" substitute in now to test. A question >>though; would one of those 'pm' modules do this well: >> >>- I use 'ls' to pass the file names in a directory to perl > > > readdir is probably better and more efficient than using ls. Well > readdir and stat maybe, Calling fork and exec to another process is not > the cheapest system call to make. Hi, I've heard this before and I have been too distracted to look into it deeper (I had other code to write and that "worked"). Now though it's getting more important because the file scan can take a -long- time. Can I use 'readdir' to get the same information that I can get with: ls -lAh --full-time ? It's very important that I get as much information on each file and directory as possible. Thanks!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 13:23:16 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:23:16 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <41137D1B.8020702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1091798594.11993.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > That may be so, but I know I'd much rather use someone else's tested, > > maintained code than have to write my own. In Perl, laziness is a virtue. I am totally in line with the laziness thing. :D > - I use 'ls' to pass the file names in a directory to perl > - perl then pushes that file name to a postres db You can get a list of files without shelling to ls with readdir like: opendir(DIR, "/home/selcomb") || die("Couldn't read dir: $!"); my @file_list = readdir(DIR); closedir(DIR); foreach my $file (@file_list) { if ($file !~ /^\./) { # ignore hidden files print "$file\n"; # push to database here } } (Incidentally, this would probably make a handy library routine, by replacing the directory path with a variable and using a callback in place of the print statement.) > I am not too familiar with 'pm' modules I'm afraid I'm not to sure > how to use them properly yet. Also, would one of these modules help > ensure that other special characters and possibly unicode characters in > file names where properly handled, too? Thanks! There are perl modules for just about everything, and much of the time they're not terribly difficult to work with. It can take a while to read some of the documentation, but the synopsis from most module POD's make pretty good quick-starts. http://search.cpan.org/ and the man pages for perltoot, perlboot, perltooc, perlobj, and perlmod will help in learning about using perl objects/modules. - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 13:22:47 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 09:22:47 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <200408060859.33600.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> <200408060859.33600.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <41138627.9000506@alteeve.com> Fraser Campbell wrote: > On August 6, 2004 08:44 am, Madison Kelly wrote: > > use URI::Escape; > $file = uri_escape($file); > > Look at the URI::Escape manpage, there will be other modules (perhaps better) > URI::Escape is just the one that I am familiar with. > Thanks Fraser and Philip (and all)!! That worked like a charm, woohoo! Now I just have to make sure I'm not running into a similar program passing the file names through a javascript which then in turn calls the script, too. Woohoo!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 13:33:20 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:33:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <411385D8.3020100-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> <20040806131639.GL14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <411385D8.3020100@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 6 Aug 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 08:44:11AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: >> >>> I'll be adding the "%25" substitute in now to test. A question though; >>> would one of those 'pm' modules do this well: >>> >>> - I use 'ls' to pass the file names in a directory to perl >> >> >> readdir is probably better and more efficient than using ls. Well >> readdir and stat maybe, Calling fork and exec to another process is not >> the cheapest system call to make. > > Hi, > > I've heard this before and I have been too distracted to look into it > deeper (I had other code to write and that "worked"). Now though it's getting > more important because the file scan can take a -long- time. Can I use > 'readdir' to get the same information that I can get with: > > ls -lAh --full-time > > ? > > It's very important that I get as much information on each file and directory > as possible. Thanks!! Consider using "stat" to get file information; you can format the output any way you like, including just the information you want. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 13:45:27 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 09:45:27 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <411385D8.3020100-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> <20040806131639.GL14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <411385D8.3020100@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040806134527.GM14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 09:21:28AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I've heard this before and I have been too distracted to look into it > deeper (I had other code to write and that "worked"). Now though it's > getting more important because the file scan can take a -long- time. Can > I use 'readdir' to get the same information that I can get with: > > ls -lAh --full-time > > ? > > It's very important that I get as much information on each file and > directory as possible. Thanks!! You use readdir() to get the files in the dir, and then use stat() to get everything you could ever want to know about the file. That is exactly what ls does in a seperate process. It's not very hard to use. Saves a bunch of text parsing too. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 14:01:39 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 10:01:39 -0400 Subject: passing "%20" in a url to Perl via CGI In-Reply-To: <20040806134527.GM14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4112904F.2050109@alteeve.com> <4112AF64.6050201@sympatico.ca> <20040806010453.GA10820@biff.bort.ca> <4112DCB9.9010003@istop.com> <41137997.6060201@sympatico.ca> <41137D1B.8020702@alteeve.com> <20040806131639.GL14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <411385D8.3020100@alteeve.com> <20040806134527.GM14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <41138F43.1040206@alteeve.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 09:21:28AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > >> I've heard this before and I have been too distracted to look into it >>deeper (I had other code to write and that "worked"). Now though it's >>getting more important because the file scan can take a -long- time. Can >>I use 'readdir' to get the same information that I can get with: >> >>ls -lAh --full-time >> >>? >> >>It's very important that I get as much information on each file and >>directory as possible. Thanks!! > > > You use readdir() to get the files in the dir, and then use stat() to get > everything you could ever want to know about the file. That is exactly > what ls does in a seperate process. It's not very hard to use. Saves a > bunch of text parsing too. > > Lennart Sorensen Thanks, I'll give it a run once I get this other (now javascript) bug quashed. :p Madison ps - Everyone here on TLUG is wonderful, thanks so much for all of your (repeated) help!! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 14:09:41 2004 From: hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Hooman Baradaran) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 10:09:41 -0400 Subject: Knoppix 3.1 in German In-Reply-To: References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <411299A3.2040304@detachednetworks.ca> Message-ID: <200408061009.41672.hooman@yorku.ca> It has nothing to do with KDE, I've installed different versions of Knoppix and the setting in /etc/sysconfig are set to de. Also there seems to be a bug with that knopix-autoconfig that was mentioned so I had to edited. On August 6, 2004 11:46 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: > On Thu, 5 Aug 2004, Jason Shein wrote: > > try editing /etc/init.d/knopix-autoconfig > > It is se tup like that (lang=en). The problem is inconsistency in kde. Me > I am moving to fvwm. I have a learning curve to handle since the new fvwm > is much more complex than the old I was used to (1998). > > thanks, > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Hooman Baradaran hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org www.hoomanb.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 19:52:48 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 15:52:48 -0400 Subject: OT: Humour (link to pic) Message-ID: <4113E190.5090505@alteeve.com> Hi all, I was browsing on of Fark's (fark.com) photoshop galleries and saw this. I thought some here might appreciate the humour. :p http://madisonave.ca/pics/pengi.jpg Madison PS - Yeah, I'm procrastinating... why else would I read Fark? :) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 21:26:29 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 17:26:29 -0400 Subject: job site for GTA? Message-ID: <20040806212629.GB2133@node1.opengeometry.net> Dear TLUGers, I'm about to enter the job market shortly, preferably in GTA. Which job site did you guys use to get the joblead for your current position? I'm aware of Monster.ca and Workopolis.com. Any other sites? --William -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 21:59:31 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 17:59:31 -0400 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <4109A900.9060509@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> Fraser Campbell wrote: >On July 29, 2004 09:48 pm, Chris Aitken wrote: > > > >>>The most obvious answer I can think of is that sshd is not running on >>>192.168.0.3. >>> >>> >>I see in the GUI 'Service Configuration' sshd is not even listed. Same >>in /usr/sbin/ntsysv >> >> > >GUI tools suck compared to what you can do on the command line. Forget the >gui, if you depend on guis to tell yourself about the system you will always >be struggling and you'll never *really* understand what's going on. > >Is ssh running (ps auxw | grep sshd)? > [chris at a800 chris]$ ps auxw | grep sshd chris 2485 0.0 0.2 3252 552 pts/0 S 17:53 0:00 grep sshd [chris at a800 chris]$ > Is something listening on port 22 >(netstat -ntl | grep :22)? > [chris at a800 chris]$ netstat -ntl | grep :22 [chris at a800 chris]$ su Password: [root at a800 chris]# netstat -ntl | grep :22 [root at a800 chris]# > Is that something on listening on port 22 really >your sshd process (look at options to netstat for showing you the programs >that are listening)? > >Is sshd installed, use your package management tools to show you that (rpm, >dpkg, etc.), use locate, etc. > [chris at a800 chris]$ rpm -q sshd package sshd is not installed [chris at a800 chris]$ rpm -q ssh* package ssh* is not installed [chris at a800 chris]$ >If sshd is listening on port 22, is it listening on 0.0.0.0 (good) or >192.168.0.3 (also fine) or on some other address only (bad). > >If it is listening but you can't connect then what about firewall rules? Did >you install firewall rules or activate a firewall script somewhere, did you >allow incoming ssh connections? > My recollection is that I accepted the rh7.3/8.0 default of "medium firewall", but I added eth0 as exempt from any firewall as I use dial-up so nothing coming in on the NIC would be dangerous. Maybe I had that backwards? >What does /etc/hosts.allow and /etc/hosts.deny say? Look at the man pages for >those files if you don't understand. > I opened those files with vi. Both are empty. Before I do the rest of this stuff I guess it's obvious sshd is not installed. Chris >Presuming that you do have ssh running also check the logfiles (Alex >mentioned /var/log/messages, there may be others that are relevant). Do an >"ls -lrt" in /var/log to see what files are being appended to as you attempt >connections, "tail -f" those files to see what errors or debugging info is >being placed there for you benefit. > >There's a lot of great material out there for learning what makes a Linux >system tick. You cannot learn from a GUI and manuals from SuSe, Mandrake, >Redhat, et al are mostly useless crap focused on the GUI, package management >and system installation. Check out the Linux System Administrators Guide >(http://www.tldp.org/LDP/sag/html/index.html) and the Linux Network >Administrator's Guide (http://www.tldp.org/LDP/nag2/index.html) they're both >excellent and just as relevant today as when they were first published over >10 years ago. There are probably many other good LDP guides but the above >two are the two that got me started and they were worth every penny of the >$60 they cost me to print long ago. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 17:36:32 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:36:32 +0200 Subject: Thanks -> was:Knoppix 3.1 in German References: <41117CA7.407@onlink.net> <41122918.7000505@onlink.net> Message-ID: <4113C1A0.2060600@onlink.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> I'm confused. Knoppix 3.1 Live boots in English, runs in English, I >> ran knx-hdinstall in English, it boots in English, lilo is in >> English, login is in English, then everything is in German. How can I >> install or run so that knoppix 3.1 (or KDE) runs in English? > > > Thanks for the help. There are GUI tools for both the keyboard (KDE > Keyboard Tool) and KDE (Control Centre > Personalization > Country & > Language). Everything is in English now and persisting from > login-to-login. > > I may have finally found in knoppix 3.4 Live (hard disk installation) > an OS I can call "home" (I know I've said that before). It has Open > Office, Mozilla Messenger (unlike SuSE 9.1 Personal), cups printing > works "out-of-the-box" (unlike knoppix 3.4) and lots of music software! > > Of course lilo refuses to see the Windows 98 SE partition - it saw it > while running live off the CD but the hard disk installation doesn't > see it. I'll research that a little before I trouble this list again. That's ok now as well. I just had to un-remark the lines in /etc/lilo.conf and run /sbin/lilo. > > > Chris > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 17:49:12 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:49:12 +0200 Subject: linuxtag.org abandoned? Message-ID: <4113C498.7020606@onlink.net> Does anyone out there subscribe to debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+Zg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org? I receive mail from that list but can't post to it -- I get delivery failures trying to email debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org I get delivery failures trying to email mailman-owner-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org I got an email through to (no delivery error) -- but no response from -- the "administrator". This is the Postfix program at host hydra.linuxtag.uni-kl.de. I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned below could not be delivered to one or more destinations. For further assistance, please send mail to If you do so, please include this problem report. You can delete your own text from the message returned below. The Postfix program : Command died with status 1: "/var/lib/mailman/mail/mailman owner mailman" Is everyone at linuxtag.org being held hostage? Yet, I get these confirmations that everything is fine: This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your linuxtag.org mailing list memberships. It includes your subscription info and how to use it to change it or unsubscribe from a list. You can visit the URLs to change your membership status or configuration, including unsubscribing, setting digest-style delivery or disabling delivery altogether (e.g., for a vacation), and so on. In addition to the URL interfaces, you can also use email to make such changes. For more info, send a message to the '-request' address of the list (for example, debian-knoppix-request-MC8LlOuzQ+Zg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) containing just the word 'help' in the message body, and an email message will be sent to you with instructions. If you have questions, problems, comments, etc, send them to mailman-owner-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org Thanks! Passwords for aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+Zg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org knoppixchris http://mailman.linuxtag.org/mailman/options/debian-knoppix/aitken%40onlink.net If I follow the above link everything on my account looks fine. I don't see anything that indicates I don't want mail or would rather have it in digest form or anything like that... I've emailed Klaus (the "K" in "knoppix"?). The email form page advises he'll get back to me in four weeks. Anyone know anything about this? Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 17:51:44 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 19:51:44 +0200 Subject: linuxtag.org abandoned? References: <4113C498.7020606@onlink.net> Message-ID: <4113C530.7000408@onlink.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Does anyone out there subscribe to debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+Zg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org? > > I receive mail from that list but can't post to it -- I get delivery > failures trying to email debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org > > I get delivery failures trying to email mailman-owner-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org > > I got an email through to (no delivery error) -- but no response from > -- the "administrator". That was to knopper-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 00:28:26 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:28:26 -0400 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused In-Reply-To: <4113FF43.2060003-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> Message-ID: <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 6, 2004 05:59 pm, Chris Aitken wrote: > [chris at a800 chris]$ rpm -q ssh* > package ssh* is not installed A few problems with that. First, depending on your shell, the * might get gobbled up before being passed to rpm so you should escape it. Second, AFAIK rpm doesn't accept wildcard package queries ;-) The way I would do the query is ... rpm -qa | grep -i ssh > Before I do the rest of this stuff I guess it's obvious sshd is not > installed. I'd be willing to bet on it but since you're rpm query wasn't quite right it could still be there. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 00:37:07 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 6 Aug 2004 20:37:07 -0400 Subject: linuxtag.org abandoned? In-Reply-To: <4113C498.7020606-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <4113C498.7020606@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040807003707.GT28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 07:49:12PM +0200, Chris Aitken wrote: > Passwords for aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org: > > List Password // URL > ---- -------- > debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+Zg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org XXXXXXXXXXXX > http://mailman.linuxtag.org/mailman/options/debian-knoppix/aitken%40onlink.net Um, dude, you might want to go change your password, now that it's been posted to the list (and therefore the internet). (it's there in the message you wrote, I won't repeat it here) :/ -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 6 19:28:28 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 21:28:28 +0200 Subject: linuxtag.org abandoned? References: <4113C498.7020606@onlink.net> <20040807003707.GT28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <4113DBDC.6080600@onlink.net> Taavi Burns wrote: >On Fri, Aug 06, 2004 at 07:49:12PM +0200, Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>Passwords for aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org: >> >>List Password // URL >>---- -------- >>debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+Zg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org XXXXXXXXXXXX >>http://mailman.linuxtag.org/mailman/options/debian-knoppix/aitken%40onlink.net >> >> > >Um, dude, you might want to go change your password, now that it's been posted >to the list (and therefore the internet). (it's there in the message you wrote, >I won't repeat it here) > >:/ > Yeah, someone might break in and fix it. : ) Just kidding. Thanks. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 03:20:05 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 23:20:05 -0400 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <41144A65.3020300@onlink.net> Fraser Campbell wrote: >On August 6, 2004 05:59 pm, Chris Aitken wrote: > >>[chris at a800 chris]$ rpm -q ssh* >>package ssh* is not installed >> >> >A few problems with that. First, depending on your shell, the * might get >gobbled up before being passed to rpm so you should escape it. Second, AFAIK >rpm doesn't accept wildcard package queries ;-) > My bad. It supports them for installation only, I guess. >The way I would do the query is ... rpm -qa | grep -i ssh > > [chris at a800 chris]$ rpm -qa | grep -i ssh openssh-askpass-3.4p1-2 openssh-3.4p1-2 openssh-askpass-gnome-3.4p1-2 openssh-clients-3.4p1-2 [chris at a800 chris]$ So, I have ssh... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 03:28:51 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Fri, 06 Aug 2004 23:28:51 -0400 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused In-Reply-To: <41144A65.3020300-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <41144A65.3020300@onlink.net> Message-ID: <41144C73.3010602@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chris Aitken wrote: > >> The way I would do the query is ... rpm -qa | grep -i ssh >> >> > [chris at a800 chris]$ rpm -qa | grep -i ssh > > openssh-askpass-3.4p1-2 > openssh-3.4p1-2 > openssh-askpass-gnome-3.4p1-2 > openssh-clients-3.4p1-2 > [chris at a800 chris]$ > > So, I have ssh... Nope. You have only the client, not the server. You need the package "openssh-server". - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBFExyRreNkzrRRLQRAomEAJ0SHu220FvfvXT3B8oamVXBemDEMACfZ4j1 eP9TdBJsGm1OGsRg3S0qVUo= =Z7wg -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 06:32:49 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 02:32:49 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: <1091765157.3830.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1091860369.3858.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks Robert, > Did you turn off RBL checks as someone suggested? Yes, no difference. I wonder if spamassassin is seeing /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf . If I use spamc does it still use this file? > > What does top say? Do you mean when spam is being checked? jim > > Rob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 11:45:18 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 07:45:18 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <1091860369.3858.52.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1091860369.3858.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, jim ruxton wrote: > Yes, no difference. I wonder if spamassassin is seeing > /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf . If I use spamc does it still use this > file? Actually, from one of your last messages it looks like it may be using you personal SA conf file. Add the directives I talked about to the SA conf file in your account (see man pages) and see if that helps. Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 07:02:56 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 09:02:56 +0200 Subject: linuxtag.org abandoned? References: <4113C498.7020606@onlink.net> <4113C530.7000408@onlink.net> Message-ID: <41147EA0.7010900@onlink.net> Chris Aitken wrote: > Chris Aitken wrote: > >> Does anyone out there subscribe to debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+Zg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org? >> >> I receive mail from that list but can't post to it -- I get delivery >> failures trying to email debian-knoppix-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org >> >> I get delivery failures trying to email mailman-owner-MC8LlOuzQ+ZTeqIcxkLZrQ at public.gmane.org >> >> I got an email through to (no delivery error) -- but no response from >> -- the "administrator". > I just unsubscribed -- with the password I posted to the Internet ; ) The www.linuxtag.org website informs that they are preparing the new website. I think they are just taking the summer off. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 17:01:07 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 13:01:07 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <20040806040948.GA968-y6Pr2RmEDtOJK1hZEW34O3gSJqDPrsil@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> Message-ID: <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On Friday 06 August 2004 12:09 am, Noah John Gellner wrote: > Today some punk tried to hack my system by trying to log in as root to > my ssh server. There was no problem and I mailed Abuse and Admin at his > ISP. This attempt was unusual due to the number of attempts. I notice a > couple of HTTP attacks every day. What do people do about this nonsense. > I am thinking of starting to aggressively mail ISPs as determined by > whois and demand that users be warned and/or censured. Any thoughts? believe it or not, it could be some sort of linux worm: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.security/1466 the interesting news however is that the thing tends only to try to get at the same accounts, (i've seen "test" and "guest") but apparently it uses the same username/password as is available on that box, so if you could capture what it's trying on your machine, you own your attacker's machine. ...or so i've heard. i don't even know how to do that. -- do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 18:09:24 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 14:09:24 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> Message-ID: <41151AD4.10103@rogers.com> So maybe someone can write a disinfecting virus that spots these attacks, infects the attacking machine and disinfects it, then spreads from there. Tom daniel wrote: >On Friday 06 August 2004 12:09 am, Noah John Gellner wrote: > > >>Today some punk tried to hack my system by trying to log in as root to >>my ssh server. There was no problem and I mailed Abuse and Admin at his >>ISP. This attempt was unusual due to the number of attempts. I notice a >>couple of HTTP attacks every day. What do people do about this nonsense. >>I am thinking of starting to aggressively mail ISPs as determined by >>whois and demand that users be warned and/or censured. Any thoughts? >> >> > >believe it or not, it could be some sort of linux worm: > > http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.security/1466 > >the interesting news however is that the thing tends only to try to get at the >same accounts, (i've seen "test" and "guest") but apparently it uses the >same username/password as is available on that box, so if you could capture >what it's trying on your machine, you own your attacker's machine. ...or so >i've heard. i don't even know how to do that. > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 19:21:32 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 15:21:32 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <41151AD4.10103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <41151AD4.10103@rogers.com> Message-ID: <1091906490.14020.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've had a similar thought of using viral-like infections as an an anti-virus and/or real-time cracking prevention scheme a few times. The biggest problem though (I think) is that in an age where the public lives in constant fear of spam and viruses, would it be accepted socially? While I don't hold out much hope for a yes to the above question, I do have a technical question: Would it be possible to solidly identify the worm by it's actions - while it's attempting it's break-and-enter? Thanks for the heads up. I agree totally with Maddison - the TLUG list is great! On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 14:09, Tom Legrady wrote: > So maybe someone can write a disinfecting virus that spots these > attacks, infects the attacking machine and disinfects it, then spreads > from there. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 02:45:43 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 22:45:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <1091906490.14020.51.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <41151AD4.10103@rogers.com> <1091906490.14020.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Scott Elcomb wrote: > while it's attempting it's break-and-enter? You compute something called a 'signature', which is the sum of the actions (you think) the attacker takes (including the time-frame) on your system, as revealed by system logs, and then you draw conclusions by matching this gainst known virus and human penetration attempts. F.ex. the time between the attempts is significant. Humans can only type so fast (even if cut & paste). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 19:47:25 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 15:47:25 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <41151AD4.10103@rogers.com> <1091906490.14020.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <411531CD.9000603@istop.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > > On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Scott Elcomb wrote: > >> while it's attempting it's break-and-enter? > > > You compute something called a 'signature', which is the sum of the > actions (you think) the attacker takes (including the time-frame) on > your system, as revealed by system logs, and then you draw conclusions > by matching this gainst known virus and human penetration attempts. > F.ex. the time between the attempts is significant. Humans can only type > so fast (even if cut & paste). Except the case when humans automate their breaking attempt. zb. > Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 19:53:47 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 15:53:47 -0400 Subject: compiling 2.6.7 and usb problem Message-ID: <4115334B.9060506@alteeve.com> Hi all, I am about to try compiling my tenth version of the 2.6.7 kernel (from kernel.org) on my Thinkpad A22m under Fedora Core 2. It seems that no matter whether I tell '.config' to compile ehci, ohci and uhci as modules or directly into the kernel I -always- get an error booting under the kernel saying that those modules couldn't be loaded and thus USB fails to work. Everything else seems okay though. Has anyone else run into this by chance? Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 20:11:36 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 16:11:36 -0400 Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1091909496.3856.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks Terry, I tried this but it didn't change anything. Jim On Sat, 2004-08-07 at 07:45, Terry Tanski wrote: > On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, jim ruxton wrote: > > > Yes, no difference. I wonder if spamassassin is seeing > > /etc/mail/spamassassin/local.cf . If I use spamc does it still use this > > file? > > Actually, from one of your last messages it looks like it may be using > you personal SA conf file. Add the directives I talked about to the SA > conf file in your account (see man pages) and see if that helps. > > Terry -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 21:28:09 2004 From: tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org (Tom Low-Shang) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 17:28:09 -0400 Subject: Speaker this week? Message-ID: <20040807212809.GC28235@low-shang.homelinux.com> Just wondering if there is a speaker scheduled for the meeting on Tuesday? -- Tom Low-Shang \ Toronto, Canada Software Developer / 416 321 1394 * Embedded Systems \ tlow-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n at public.gmane.org * Industrial Automation / -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 22:29:10 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 18:29:10 -0400 Subject: compiling 2.6.7 and usb problem In-Reply-To: <4115334B.9060506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4115334B.9060506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <411557B6.9090301@canada.com> Madison Kelly wrote: > It seems that no matter whether I tell '.config' to compile ehci, > ohci and uhci as modules or directly into the kernel I -always- get an > error booting under the kernel saying that those modules couldn't be > loaded and thus USB fails to work. Everything else seems okay though. > Has anyone else run into this by chance? When you compile them as a module, can you find them under /lib/module/whatever? If not, that means that they are not compiled. Therefore, you should check your .config (actually, it would be easier to use config, or menuconfig, or whatever interface you prefer) to do that. If yes, what message do you get when you try to load them with modprobe. Also, if you use lsmod, what do you have before the modprobe and after the modprobe? Gilles -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 00:19:37 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 07 Aug 2004 20:19:37 -0400 Subject: job site for GTA? In-Reply-To: <20040806212629.GB2133-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806212629.GB2133@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: William Park writes: > I'm about to enter the job market shortly, preferably in GTA. Which job > site did you guys use to get the joblead for your current position? I'm > aware of Monster.ca and Workopolis.com. Any other sites? http://toronto.craigslist.org -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 02:24:13 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 22:24:13 -0400 Subject: compiling 2.6.7 and usb problem In-Reply-To: <4115334B.9060506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4115334B.9060506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <41158ECD.9080708@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, So even if you set ehci-hcd, ohci-hcd, and uhci-hcd as modules, you still get a "module not found" or similar problem? Is this your first 2.6.* kernel? If it is, than your modutils and module-init-tools (or similar) packages may need to be updated. There was a thread on this a while back. When you compile the modules into the kernel, it is possible to get harmless "not found" messages. Which modules did you use under your previous kernel? ('lsmod' is your friend here). Madison Kelly wrote: > It seems that no matter whether I tell '.config' to compile ehci, ohci > and uhci as modules or directly into the kernel I -always- get an error > booting under the kernel saying that those modules couldn't be loaded > and thus USB fails to work. Everything else seems okay though. Has > anyone else run into this by chance? > - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBFY7MRreNkzrRRLQRAjGPAJ9loc9L6Y96B4Me4RSAIN6JZKVbPQCcCQus Zce1jfXPC3QwES6fPIieNws= =aoPz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 01:31:24 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:31:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speaker this week? In-Reply-To: <20040807212809.GC28235-AZu5J0u3PMt/LtIqEKMDMfN90d+awN/n@public.gmane.org> References: <20040807212809.GC28235@low-shang.homelinux.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, Tom Low-Shang wrote: > Just wondering if there is a speaker scheduled for the meeting > on Tuesday? I was going to post out this evening. I'm proposing a Q/A session this meeting. They can be very useful. More on that later. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 01:29:59 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 21:29:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speeding up Spam Assassin In-Reply-To: <1091860369.3858.52.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1091765157.3830.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1091860369.3858.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, 7 Aug 2004, jim ruxton wrote: I wrote: > > What does top say? > Do you mean when spam is being checked? At this time and also when it is not. Are you seeing excessive load on the cpu? SA does seem to be a lot slower where you are than it should be. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 7 23:42:26 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 19:42:26 -0400 Subject: compiling 2.6.7 and usb problem In-Reply-To: <4115334B.9060506-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4115334B.9060506@alteeve.com> Message-ID: > I am about to try compiling my tenth version of the 2.6.7 kernel > (from kernel.org) on my Thinkpad A22m under Fedora Core 2. > > It seems that no matter whether I tell '.config' to compile ehci, > ohci and uhci as modules or directly into the kernel I -always- get an > error booting under the kernel saying that those modules couldn't be > loaded and thus USB fails to work. Everything else seems okay though. > Has anyone else run into this by chance? After booting (and after both of those fail to load), what happens if you manually try to load them using modprobe? Any error messages spit out by dmesg that might offer a hint? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 03:21:01 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2004 23:21:01 -0400 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <41144A65.3020300@onlink.net> <41144C73.3010602@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <41159C1D.9000004@onlink.net> Anton Markov wrote: >Nope. You have only the client, not the server. You need the package >"openssh-server". > OK, I found it on the rh 8.0 CD. Does it matter what directory I copy it to? If not, I'll just copy it to / and then rpm -i openssh-server* Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 03:17:11 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2004 23:17:11 -0400 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused In-Reply-To: <41159C1D.9000004-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <41144A65.3020300@onlink.net> <41144C73.3010602@truxtar.com> <41159C1D.9000004@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040808031711.GX28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 11:21:01PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > >Nope. You have only the client, not the server. You need the package > >"openssh-server". > > > OK, I found it on the rh 8.0 CD. Does it matter what directory I copy it > to? If not, I'll just copy it to / and then rpm -i openssh-server* Why not just install it directly off of the CD? -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 00:15:31 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 02:15:31 +0200 Subject: Thanks -> was: scp -r ssh cx refused References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <41144A65.3020300@onlink.net> <41144C73.3010602@truxtar.com> <41159C1D.9000004@onlink.net> Message-ID: <411570A3.2080007@onlink.net> Thanks everyone for your help. I installed ssh server and started it. I created a directory on the knoppix machine and copied the .slt file (Mozilla Messenger) over via scp -r All of this I did with your generous help. Thank you. I love knoppix 3.1 Live (installed to hard disk)! I'm not going to budge from this distribution for a while -- took me a couple of years to find it. : ) Chris Chris Aitken wrote: > Anton Markov wrote: > > > >> Nope. You have only the client, not the server. You need the package >> "openssh-server". >> > OK, I found it on the rh 8.0 CD. Does it matter what directory I copy > it to? If not, I'll just copy it to / and then rpm -i openssh-server* > > Chris > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 00:31:18 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 02:31:18 +0200 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <41144A65.3020300@onlink.net> <41144C73.3010602@truxtar.com> <41159C1D.9000004@onlink.net> <20040808031711.GX28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <41157456.2010000@onlink.net> Taavi Burns wrote: >On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 11:21:01PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > > >>>Nope. You have only the client, not the server. You need the package >>>"openssh-server". >>> >>> >>> >>OK, I found it on the rh 8.0 CD. Does it matter what directory I copy it >>to? If not, I'll just copy it to / and then rpm -i openssh-serve* >> > >Why not just install it directly off of the CD? > I didn't know you could. I thought user apps had to be installed in /usr/bin or somesuch... I'm OK now -- I copied the rpm to / and ran rpm -i whatever*, it installed, started the server, I did an scp -r to get the mail file over and now I'm in my old email on the machine of my choice (knoppix 3.1). Thanks for your help. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 06:58:37 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 02:58:37 -0400 Subject: syncing directories Message-ID: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> I'm looking for the best way to sync (or mirror ?) directories between my desktop, my laptop, and a usb key. I have been experimenting with rsync (dangerous ?) and have the nagging feeling that there must be a better way. Any suggestions ? djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 07:53:21 2004 From: andrew-2KHxOkysSnqmy7d5DmSz6TlRY1/6cnIP at public.gmane.org (Andrew Cowie) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 17:53:21 +1000 Subject: syncing directories In-Reply-To: <1091948316.2863.124.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <1091951601.14163.3.camel@sirius.syd.operationaldyanmics.com> On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 02:58 -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I'm looking for the best way to sync (or mirror ?) directories between > my desktop, my laptop, and a usb key. Look at Unison http://www.cis.upenn.edu/~bcpierce/unison/ If you take the time to read through the docs you'll find that while powerful the basic functionality is easy to control. Its UI looks a touch dated but it works fine. I use the profile feature - one for "apps" (everything needed by evolution, gaim, and gnupg), another "eclipse" to sync my software development work, "mp3" to sync (well, push really) my music tree, etc. AfC Sydney -- Andrew Frederick Cowie OPERATIONAL DYNAMICS Operations Consultants and Infrastructure Engineers http://www.operationaldynamics.com/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 13:07:27 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 09:07:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: syncing directories In-Reply-To: <1091948316.2863.124.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 8 Aug 2004, David J Patrick wrote: > I'm looking for the best way to sync (or mirror ?) directories between > my desktop, my laptop, and a usb key. > I have been experimenting with rsync (dangerous ?) and have the nagging > feeling that there must be a better way. Any suggestions ? Naturally, it depends on your definitions of 'better' and 'dangerous'. Rsync is only as dangerous as any of the other command line utilities; it's a combination of find, cp and scp. Even cp can be dagnerous when used indiscriminately. If you're worried about overwriting stuff, there's an option to protect against that. If you want to find out what it's going to copy or update, you can do everything except actually run the comment. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 14:11:26 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 10:11:26 -0400 Subject: syncing directories In-Reply-To: <1091948316.2863.124.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040808141126.GN14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 02:58:37AM -0400, David J Patrick wrote: > I'm looking for the best way to sync (or mirror ?) directories between > my desktop, my laptop, and a usb key. > I have been experimenting with rsync (dangerous ?) and have the nagging > feeling that there must be a better way. Any suggestions ? rsync and unison are the obvious solutions. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 17:39:35 2004 From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 13:39:35 -0400 Subject: syncing directories In-Reply-To: <20040808141126.GN14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <20040808141126.GN14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1091986775.2845.9.camel@www.sympatico.ca> On Sun, 2004-08-08 at 10:11, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > rsync and unison are the obvious solutions. unison looks like the ticket ! thanks, djp -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 17:42:22 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 13:42:22 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040808134222.37225635.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 4 Aug 2004 11:13:43 -0400 (EDT) "Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote: > On Wed, 4 Aug 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I know I should RTFM for this but I don't really have time. I am at > > work and I want to email some pictures, however the file sizes are too > > big. I know that you can shrink the size of a file in Photoshop...but > > is there a way in gimp? I have gimp 2.0. I really don't want to have > > to shut down everything and boot up windows just to do this :). Thanks > > for any help. > > It's much simpler to use ImageMagick: > > convert -size 100x100 -resize 100x100 file.jpg smallfile.jpg Chris, How about... convert -quality 50 file.jpg smallerfile.jpg -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 19:01:00 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:01:00 -0400 Subject: syncing directories In-Reply-To: <1091948316.2863.124.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200408081501.00998.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 8, 2004 02:58 am, David J Patrick wrote: > I'm looking for the best way to sync (or mirror ?) directories between > my desktop, my laptop, and a usb key. I use subversion for this. I run a subversion server that stores most of my home and *all* of the stuff that I actually care about. Recently when I wanted to do some work on a laptop I did roughly: svn co http://svnserver/svn/fraser/home/ . That gave me all of the configs for my mua, kde, mozilla and a few other programs that I care about. Then there was a website that I wanted to work on from the laptop so I did: svn co http://svnserver/svn/customer/site/ site And I had a complete up-to-the-minute copy of the website that I could work on and modify (disconnected) to my hearts content. I also had to sync the apache config from my webserver to the laptop but I'll spare the full details. When I add stuff in my home direcory (or wherever) that I care about I will also add that to my subversion At work when I log out for the day I type "svn status -q" to tell me which of my existing files have changed. If I don't care about the changes I'll revert the files otherwise I'll check them in. When I get home I update my home environment with "svn update" and proceed to have an identical user experience there. I do the same (or opposite) when leaving for work in the morning. All told I spend less than 1 minute per day on it and it gives me a 99% consistent user experience between home, work and laptop. It also means that within a few minutes (however slow the network is) I can bring my environment to a computer (single checkout command). I seem to recall this conversation before ;-) -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 19:19:13 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 15:19:13 -0400 Subject: syncing directories In-Reply-To: <200408081501.00998.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> <200408081501.00998.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200408081519.13209.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 8, 2004 03:01 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: > All told I spend less than 1 minute per day on it and it gives me a 99% > consistent user experience between home, work and laptop. ?It also means > that within a few minutes (however slow the network is) I can bring my > environment to a computer (single checkout command). That was particularly incoherent even for me. I meant to say that within a few minutes (depending on how slow the network is) I can bring my entire user environment to a brand new computer. I have several hundred MB of docs, configs, images, etc. checked in under my home so a full checkout obviously does take a while. If speed is an issue, I don't necessarily need it all, so I can always do a non-recursive, or pick-and-choose, checkout to pick up the pace. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 20:13:55 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2004 16:13:55 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <20040808134222.37225635.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040808134222.37225635.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <41168983.8030803@sympatico.ca> Howard Gibson wrote: > > How about... > > convert -quality 50 file.jpg smallerfile.jpg The result may appear horrible, especially in MSIE. It has very nasty JPEG rendering code which makes anything under about 80% look vile. I wasn't ever quite sure what the OP meant by 'shrinking the size of'. Was it: * reducing the pixel count? (if so, gimp-2's cubic rescale is the nicest way I've seen of doing it) * reducing the colour depth? * recompressing the image somehow? (using a more compressed lossless format, like exchanging PPM for PNG, or using a lossy format like JPEG, JPEG2000, JBIG (for B&W images), or DjVu). Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 01:19:43 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 21:19:43 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions Message-ID: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> I'm once again in a situation where I have two computers and one monitor. For now, I'll be getting a KVM switch, but I eventually want to get an LCD monitor. What's the current status of features on LCD monitors? My main wishlist items are... - 90 degree display rotation, so that with "randr" (resize and rotate) on linux, I'll be able to view webpages in "portrait mode" - in true console textmode, will the monitor be able to display more than 25 rows? I've seen LCD displays on laptops that refuse to display more than 25 rows, regardless of being told to. See my page http://www.waltdnes.org/tips_and_tricks/textmodes.html for details of how to do this generically on a CRT. - probably 17 inches with 1280 x 1024 resolution. I'd prefer 19 or 20 inches with 1600 x 1200 resolution, but that'll probably be too expensive. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 02:02:39 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 22:02:39 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions In-Reply-To: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> References: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> Message-ID: > - 90 degree display rotation, so that with "randr" (resize and rotate) > on linux, I'll be able to view webpages in "portrait mode" Just be sure that the driver you use supports it. I know that the opensource NVidia driver supports rotation, but the closed source one does not. > - in true console textmode, will the monitor be able to display more > than 25 rows? I've seen LCD displays on laptops that refuse to > display more than 25 rows, regardless of being told to. See my page > http://www.waltdnes.org/tips_and_tricks/textmodes.html for details > of how to do this generically on a CRT. My Pentium120 laptop does 132x30 (as far as I can remember) without a hitch using SVGATextMode. The native resolution of my laptop display is 800x600. I know that the linux framebuffer device thingy mostly only works with Vesa2 compliant cards, and older laptops (like mine) only do Vesa1.2. That might explain why older laptops (or maybe even some newer laptops) refuse to use better FB modes. As far as I know, there is no FB implementation for Vesa1.2 video cards because Vesa1.2 is a pain. If I remember correctly, Vesa1.2 used segmented and banked memory access, which was reminescent of the old 16-bit computing days. Vesa2 uses a 32-bit flat memory space, which is MUCH nicer to program for. There does exist programs that will emulate Vesa2 on top of Vesa1.2, but unfortunately they are user-mode programs, not suitable for the kernel. -Jing -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 10:13:50 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 06:13:50 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions In-Reply-To: References: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> Message-ID: <20040809101350.GA2279@m450> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 10:02:39PM -0400, Jing Su wrote > > - 90 degree display rotation, so that with "randr" (resize and rotate) > > on linux, I'll be able to view webpages in "portrait mode" > > Just be sure that the driver you use supports it. I know that the > opensource NVidia driver supports rotation, but the closed source one does > not. Interesting. My two machines have ATI cards. One is a Rage 128, and the other is a Radeon 7000. Any word about them? -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 8 12:25:36 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 8 Aug 2004 08:25:36 -0400 Subject: Network appliance programming course extension Message-ID: <20040809121714.32CADEB2D9@outbox.allstream.net> The iCanProgram Extreme Linux Programming course has announced an extension which will teach the students how to program and interact with a remote IO Anywhere network appliance over the Internet. All iCanProgram courses are done online and are free in return for a Cancer Research donation. The current session is nearing completion and the extension will likely be posted early next week. You can still participate. If you are interested contact me directly offlist and I'll give you the particulars. bob -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 14:19:36 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:19:36 -0400 Subject: Speaker this week? In-Reply-To: References: <20040807212809.GC28235@low-shang.homelinux.com> Message-ID: <20040809141936.GA5959@smeagol> On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 09:31:24PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > I was going to post out this evening. I'm proposing a Q/A session this > meeting. They can be very useful. I thought I was speaking, I guess not? emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 14:49:54 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 10:49:54 -0400 Subject: Instant Messenging Woes Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Hello Everyone. I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? I would like to: Use an internal IM system for staff to use. Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. Keep track of who they connect to. We use IM for communication between remote offices and Technical Support etc, but some people have started to chat with their buddies instead of working. I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently the client of choice is MSN. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 15:15:27 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:15:27 -0400 (EDT) Subject: AIT3 tape caddy Message-ID: Does anyone know where I can pickup an AIT3 tape caddy. I can find DLT and DDS just fine, but even Grand & Toy doesn't seem to offer anything. Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 15:18:10 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:18:10 -0400 Subject: scp -r ssh cx refused In-Reply-To: <41157456.2010000-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <200407292058.14760.aitken@onlink.net> <200407292215.00203.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <4113FF43.2060003@onlink.net> <200408062028.26320.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <41144A65.3020300@onlink.net> <41144C73.3010602@truxtar.com> <41159C1D.9000004@onlink.net> <20040808031711.GX28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <41157456.2010000@onlink.net> Message-ID: <411795B2.7020302@truxtar.com> Chris Aitken wrote: > I didn't know you could. I thought user apps had to be installed in > /usr/bin or somesuch... They do, but RPM does that for you :) -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 15:18:19 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:18:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speaker this week? In-Reply-To: <20040809141936.GA5959@smeagol> References: <20040807212809.GC28235@low-shang.homelinux.com> <20040809141936.GA5959@smeagol> Message-ID: On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 09:31:24PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > I was going to post out this evening. I'm proposing a Q/A session this > > meeting. They can be very useful. > > I thought I was speaking, I guess not? Hi Emma. My records didn't you show speaking this meeting but we're more than happy to have you speak of course. I'll follow-up with you in private mail. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 15:27:31 2004 From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 11:27:31 -0400 Subject: Instant Messenging Woes In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: > Hello Everyone. > > I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? > > I would like to: > > Use an internal IM system for staff to use. > Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. > Keep track of who they connect to. > > We use IM for communication between remote offices and Technical Support etc, but some people have started to chat with their buddies instead of working. > > I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently the client of choice is MSN. Though I don't have any experience in this area, I've heard that many people use Jabber since it's an opensource project. http://www.jabber.org/ Freshmeat also brings up a few MSN server programs that you might look into. I'm sure those projects probably contain FAQs on how to redirect clients to use your internal server instead of the default MS one. for example: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tttn/ http://www.redix.de/xMSN/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 16:08:36 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:08:36 -0400 Subject: Speaker this week? In-Reply-To: <20040809141936.GA5959@smeagol> References: <20040807212809.GC28235@low-shang.homelinux.com> <20040809141936.GA5959@smeagol> Message-ID: <4117A184.7050004@rogers.com> Emma Jane Hogbin wrote: > On Sat, Aug 07, 2004 at 09:31:24PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > >>I was going to post out this evening. I'm proposing a Q/A session this >>meeting. They can be very useful. > > > I thought I was speaking, I guess not? > > emma > I would prefer a speaker. What's your topic? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 16:10:57 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 12:10:57 -0400 Subject: Instant Messenging Woes Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D6F@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Thanks, I have been looking at Jabber, but I haven't found out how to allow some but not others yet. Once I am set up I will be blocking all the IM sites so people will have to use the "Official Server" and the "Official Client" as well. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Jing Su Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 11:28 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Instant Messenging Woes > Hello Everyone. > > I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? > > I would like to: > > Use an internal IM system for staff to use. > Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. > Keep track of who they connect to. > > We use IM for communication between remote offices and Technical Support etc, but some people have started to chat with their buddies instead of working. > > I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently the client of choice is MSN. Though I don't have any experience in this area, I've heard that many people use Jabber since it's an opensource project. http://www.jabber.org/ Freshmeat also brings up a few MSN server programs that you might look into. I'm sure those projects probably contain FAQs on how to redirect clients to use your internal server instead of the default MS one. for example: http://sourceforge.net/projects/tttn/ http://www.redix.de/xMSN/index.php -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 17:00:43 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 13:00:43 -0400 Subject: Instant Messenging Woes In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3Az0y5Z4Zv46J@public.gmane.org ft> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68@lynchmail2.lynch.ms ft> Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20040809125608.03063570@mail.interlog.com> At 10:49 AM 08/09/2004, Wil McGilvery wrote: >I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in >our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? [snip] >I would like to: > >Use an internal IM system for staff to use. >Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. >Keep track of who they connect to. [snip] >I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently >the client of choice is MSN. I don't know how easy it would be to keep track of who someone is chatting with via an IM client. As for controlling it, the first step would be in identifying the port(s) used by the client. In the case of ICQ, it used port 4000 (IIRC). With that program, you could control use of it by adding rules to your firewall related to the use of port 4000. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 17:36:40 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:36:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: TLUG Talk - August 10, 2004 Message-ID: Date: August 10, 2004 Time: 7:30pm Location: Galbraith Building, U of T For directions, see http://oracle.osm.utoronto.ca/map/ Room: GB244 Speaker: Emma Jane Hogbin Topic: Source to Output: DocBook Tools and Transformations Details: This presentation will guide people through the process of transforming an XML document to a human-readable format. Slides are available from: http://xtrinsic.com/tlug/040810/ Speaker Bio: Emma Jane Hogbin is a professor at Humber College and the Technical Review Coordinator for the Linux Documentation Project. TLUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 17:51:40 2004 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:51:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: payment setup on web store In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.2.20040809125608.03063570-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <6.1.2.0.2.20040809125608.03063570@mail.interlog.com> Message-ID: <20040809175140.19096.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> All, Could anybody give me some help on how to setup payment in web? I am try to build a webstore. Now I want to let my web store accept Master card or Visa Card, but I have no idea on how to set it up and any security issues. Thanks a lot! Louie --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 17:53:59 2004 From: hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Hooman Baradaran) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:53:59 -0400 Subject: payment setup on web store In-Reply-To: <20040809175140.19096.qmail-T+KdO0UH6sWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040809175140.19096.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1092074039.4117ba375c373@mymail.yorku.ca> Have you considered using online services such as PayPal? -- Hooman Baradaran hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org www.hoomanb.com Quoting hui xu : > > All, > > Could anybody give me some help on how to setup payment in web? > > I am try to build a webstore. Now I want to let my web store accept Master > card or Visa Card, but I have no idea on how to set it up and any security > issues. > > Thanks a lot! > > Louie > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 17:56:50 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 13:56:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call for future speakers Message-ID: Hi all. Could anyone interested in doing talks for September or later in the year please email with possible topics. Is there anyone who has not done a talk at all? Now is your chance? :) Talks can be anything Linux/Unix related. Got a favourite utility or application? Tell us why you love it. Know some cool tricks with the shell? Great. I also believe lighter talks are fine. Linux isn't just about work. Got a favourite Unix game? Tell us about that. I think that talks on games would probably be shorter so we may try to fit 2 or 3 into one evening. Ideally these would be games that were exclusively or predominantly Unix rather than cross-platform games that are probably better known. Examples include Crossfire and Netrek. Both of these started life on Unix and despite the existance of non-Unix clients they are still predominantly played by Unix users. Is anyone interested in a (fun) debate for a meeting. This would consist of two teams each with 3 participants. Each speaker would have a period of about 3 minutes in which to talk. Ie, pretty standard debating format. I helped organised one of these for another club and it was a big success. Suggested Debate Topics: Vi vs Emacs. "C is too much trouble to learn these days" (for/against) "LAMP/LAPP is the future" (for/against) Please follow-up with support or opposition to a debate and possible topics. TLUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:05:28 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:05:28 -0400 Subject: Instant Messaging Woes Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D72@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Some of the IM clients use port 80 when their other port is blocked. I know MSN does this. The only way to block this is to start using an application proxy. I may not be able to control who they chat with, but it would nice to have log files for reference. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:01 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Instant Messaging Woes At 10:49 AM 08/09/2004, Wil McGilvery wrote: >I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in >our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? [snip] >I would like to: > >Use an internal IM system for staff to use. >Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. >Keep track of who they connect to. [snip] >I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently >the client of choice is MSN. I don't know how easy it would be to keep track of who someone is chatting with via an IM client. As for controlling it, the first step would be in identifying the port(s) used by the client. In the case of ICQ, it used port 4000 (IIRC). With that program, you could control use of it by adding rules to your firewall related to the use of port 4000. Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:21:40 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:21:40 -0400 Subject: Instant Messenging Woes In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <200408091421.40901.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On August 9, 2004 10:49 am, Wil McGilvery wrote: > Hello Everyone. > > I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in > our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? > > I would like to: > > Use an internal IM system for staff to use. > Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. > Keep track of who they connect to. > > We use IM for communication between remote offices and Technical Support > etc, but some people have started to chat with their buddies instead of > working. > > I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently > the client of choice is MSN. just a thought, but what's to keep people from ssh'ing into their box @home and running a messenger client tunneled over ssh? -- She understands. She doesn't comprehend. - River, Firefly, "Objects in Space" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:22:03 2004 From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:22:03 -0400 Subject: payment setup on web store In-Reply-To: <20040809175140.19096.qmail-T+KdO0UH6sWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040809175140.19096.qmail@web50806.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I used PayPal for a while but some customers complained about having to sign up and also not being able to order from certain countries. Then I switched to InternetSecure: http://internetsecure.com I link to them from my site: http://www.unihedron.com/projects/spectrum/ After filling out a simple form for quantity, the customer is directed to InternetSecure and can be validated instantly. It's a bit expensive (about $25/month) but the sales seem to have gone up to help for that. Good luck, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:25:18 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:25:18 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions In-Reply-To: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> References: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> Message-ID: <20040809182518.GO14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 08, 2004 at 09:19:43PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > I'm once again in a situation where I have two computers and one > monitor. For now, I'll be getting a KVM switch, but I eventually want > to get an LCD monitor. What's the current status of features on LCD > monitors? My main wishlist items are... > > - 90 degree display rotation, so that with "randr" (resize and rotate) > on linux, I'll be able to view webpages in "portrait mode" > > - in true console textmode, will the monitor be able to display more > than 25 rows? I've seen LCD displays on laptops that refuse to > display more than 25 rows, regardless of being told to. See my page > http://www.waltdnes.org/tips_and_tricks/textmodes.html for details > of how to do this generically on a CRT. This is entirely a video card issue. If your card has a working FB driver (framebuffer) then you can run higher resolution text mode. Using the svga text modes may also work on some, whil eit doesn't on others. Sometimes the framebuffer driver and/or the svgatestmodes break when combined with X, while other times it works fine (depends on the drivers). If you do get the framebuffer working, one way to ensure X does not break it/with it, is to use framebuffer X, which of course will be slower than a native X driver, and won't support video acceleration or anything else to speed things up, but does work quite well. > - probably 17 inches with 1280 x 1024 resolution. I'd prefer 19 or 20 > inches with 1600 x 1200 resolution, but that'll probably be too > expensive. I wish these screens would stick to 4:3 aspect ratio (unless it really is a wide screen display). 1280x1024 should never have existed. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:28:43 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:28:43 -0400 Subject: Instant Messaging Woes In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D72-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D72@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <20040809182843.GC28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:05:28PM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > Some of the IM clients use port 80 when their other port is blocked. I know But they all still connect to the same server(s), yes? So long as those servers are not also used for other things which you do NOT want to block, you can still keep the application from connecting. > MSN does this. The only way to block this is to start using an application > proxy. See above; it may not be necessary. And an application proxy may also be inadequate if, for example, they were actually tunneling their IM packets over HTTP itself rather than just using the port. > I may not be able to control who they chat with, but it would nice to have > log files for reference. I believe that MSN now encrypts all transmissions. At best you might be able to figure out what IPs they're chatting with, unless all messages go through the server, in which case you are absolutely none the wiser (apart from perhaps some idea of "chat volume" on a per-seat basis at your end). Perhaps a better question is: do these people need any access to the Internet at all? Also remember that many a frustrated, otherwise productive geek has been nothing more than annoyed at not being able to get an SSH connection out. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:29:26 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:29:26 -0400 Subject: AIT3 tape caddy In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040809182926.GP14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 11:15:27AM -0400, Terry Tanski wrote: > Does anyone know where I can pickup an AIT3 tape caddy. I can find DLT > and DDS just fine, but even Grand & Toy doesn't seem to offer anything. What is a tape caddy? As far as I know, SAIT at least is physically the same shape as DLT, so I would have thought AIT was too, in which case anything related to DLT should work for AIT except the drive of course. Sony has been advertising the SAIT drives as drop in replacements for DLT drives in robotic mechanisms with no change to the tape shelves or the robot carier, and the eject buttons, tape shape and drive placement and such are completely the same. If the older AIT drives don't do the same, I don't know what you can do for them. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:31:50 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:31:50 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions In-Reply-To: <20040809182518.GO14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> <20040809182518.GO14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040809183150.GD28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:25:18PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > - probably 17 inches with 1280 x 1024 resolution. I'd prefer 19 or 20 > > inches with 1600 x 1200 resolution, but that'll probably be too > > expensive. > > I wish these screens would stick to 4:3 aspect ratio (unless it really > is a wide screen display). 1280x1024 should never have existed. You mean a square-screen display? 1280x960 is 4:3. I have an 18.1" 1280x1024 LCD on my desk at work, and it's decidedly more square than my laptop screen (1024x768). I don't think I've ever seen an LCD monitor with non-square pixels anyway, and running 1280x1024 at 1280x960 would be absolutely horrid. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:29:42 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:29:42 -0400 Subject: Instant Messenging Woes Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D75@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Nothing unless I go postal and block everything. This IM issue was forced upon me because of that "Give them an inch they will take a mile concept." I used to think we had responsible people working here, but alas that is not the case. There are always a few who wreak it for everyone else. Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of daniel Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 2:22 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Instant Messenging Woes On August 9, 2004 10:49 am, Wil McGilvery wrote: > Hello Everyone. > > I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in > our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? > > I would like to: > > Use an internal IM system for staff to use. > Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. > Keep track of who they connect to. > > We use IM for communication between remote offices and Technical Support > etc, but some people have started to chat with their buddies instead of > working. > > I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently > the client of choice is MSN. just a thought, but what's to keep people from ssh'ing into their box @home and running a messenger client tunneled over ssh? -- She understands. She doesn't comprehend. - River, Firefly, "Objects in Space" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:35:20 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:35:20 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions In-Reply-To: <20040809183150.GD28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> <20040809182518.GO14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040809183150.GD28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040809183520.GQ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:31:50PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > You mean a square-screen display? 1280x960 is 4:3. I have an 18.1" > 1280x1024 LCD on my desk at work, and it's decidedly more square than > my laptop screen (1024x768). I don't think I've ever seen an LCD monitor > with non-square pixels anyway, and running 1280x1024 at 1280x960 would be > absolutely horrid. ;) Hence why the native resolution should have been 1280x960 in the first place. I wonder if you can force it to leave parts of the screen unused and run 4:3 aspect ratio display on it anyhow... :) I have seen 1280x768 I think it was, on some widescreen laptop displays. Not sure what ratio that works out to although I think 5:3 might be about right. I guess 15:9 is close to the 16:9 that DVD widescreen seems to expect. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:36:05 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:36:05 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <1091906490.14020.51.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <41151AD4.10103@rogers.com> <1091906490.14020.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4117C415.5040304@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Scott Elcomb wrote: > The biggest problem though (I think) is that in an age where the public > lives in constant fear of spam and viruses, would it be accepted > socially? Watch out! You are gonna have an army of lawyers (and cops) from every anti-virus software and "support" company in the world at your door in a nanosecond. You would be destroying their "legitimate" business. :) - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBF8QTRreNkzrRRLQRApyfAJ9DlwH8qyN6XaGBfxeRCv7FibuOJQCfUwIJ jJaPDCAFqzCOGiRd/rcy10E= =d322 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:41:49 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 14:41:49 -0400 Subject: CUPS Problem In-Reply-To: <4109A6DC.5070501-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4109A16E.1020103@canada.com> <4109A45E.4070400@truxtar.com> <4109A6DC.5070501@canada.com> Message-ID: <4117C56D.4050209@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It looks like this is a problem with a buggy printer driver than CUPS itself. Try googling around to see what other people have encountered with your particular printer. Gilles Fourchet wrote: > I did use the web interface to configure my printer and everything is > fine (as far as I can tell). I was even able to print the test page > then. If a retry to print a test page, it stays in the queue like > everything else. Of course, the printer is active (status: processing, > accepting jobs) and the jobs are all released. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBF8VsRreNkzrRRLQRAte2AJ0XeSgy/rRmv7UUkqCy67Nf3uyksQCeNGVI y27XzIuxBfIGX+j/Vck/ETY= =/zv1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 18:56:04 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 14:56:04 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions In-Reply-To: <20040809183520.GQ14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> <20040809182518.GO14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040809183150.GD28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20040809183520.GQ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040809185604.GE28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:35:20PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:31:50PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > > You mean a square-screen display? 1280x960 is 4:3. I have an 18.1" > > 1280x1024 LCD on my desk at work, and it's decidedly more square than > > my laptop screen (1024x768). I don't think I've ever seen an LCD monitor > > with non-square pixels anyway, and running 1280x1024 at 1280x960 would be > > absolutely horrid. ;) > > Hence why the native resolution should have been 1280x960 in the first > place. On CRTs, yes. I think that they did 1280x1024 because on some monitors it just doesn't "look right". Might have to do with standard monitor sizes and the dot pitch (so phosphors were not lined up nicely, causing moire patterns or some silly thing like that). > I wonder if you can force it to leave parts of the screen unused and run > 4:3 aspect ratio display on it anyhow... :) But if it's displaying perfectly square pixels, do you really care what the shape of the screen is enough to not want to use some pixels? Stick your XMMS playlist in the extra space if you don't want to use it for webbrowsing, or something. ;) > I have seen 1280x768 I think it was, on some widescreen laptop displays. > Not sure what ratio that works out to although I think 5:3 might be > about right. I guess 15:9 is close to the 16:9 that DVD widescreen > seems to expect. My PowerBook as a 1280x854 LCD. I still get black sections at the top and bottom when watching DVDs, but they're smaller than on a monitor. Watching 4:3 videos also naturally causes black stripes on the sides, but I don't notice them that much. What is on the screen is still quite big, and beautiful. (it's a very nice LCD imho) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 19:18:03 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:18:03 -0400 Subject: CUPS Problem In-Reply-To: <4117C56D.4050209-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4109A16E.1020103@canada.com> <4109A45E.4070400@truxtar.com> <4109A6DC.5070501@canada.com> <4117C56D.4050209@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <4117CDEB.8080407@canada.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks Anton. Actually, it was a problem with my parallel port drivers. Gilles Anton Markov wrote: | It looks like this is a problem with a buggy printer driver than CUPS | itself. Try googling around to see what other people have encountered | with your particular printer. | | Gilles Fourchet wrote: | | >I did use the web interface to configure my printer and everything is | >fine (as far as I can tell). I was even able to print the test page | >then. If a retry to print a test page, it stays in the queue like | >everything else. Of course, the printer is active (status: processing, | >accepting jobs) and the jobs are all released. | | | | -- | Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> | | GnuPG Key fingerprint = | 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 | | *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** - -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBF83ocRfXZcQmIfgRAmpPAJ4nGLoOorNjSOsQC92+3Bk3KhfyZwCdEqIb qz8PnC8SHXAIzBR5+p8jGJs= =tq77 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 19:24:04 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 15:24:04 -0400 Subject: hack attempt - what to do In-Reply-To: <4117C415.5040304-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040806040948.GA968@butters.WorkGroup> <200408071301.07686.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> <41151AD4.10103@rogers.com> <1091906490.14020.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4117C415.5040304@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <4117CF54.5090207@istop.com> Anton Markov wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Scott Elcomb wrote: > >>The biggest problem though (I think) is that in an age where the public >>lives in constant fear of spam and viruses, would it be accepted >>socially? > > > Watch out! You are gonna have an army of lawyers (and cops) from every > anti-virus software and "support" company in the world at your door in a > nanosecond. You would be destroying their "legitimate" business. :) I am afraid that you might be right. Not for that DMCA has been created? ;( zb. > - -- > Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 19:51:55 2004 From: danstemporaryaccount-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (daniel) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 15:51:55 -0400 Subject: Instant Messenging Woes In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D68@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <200408091551.55981.danstemporaryaccount@yahoo.ca> On August 9, 2004 10:49 am, Wil McGilvery wrote: > Hello Everyone. > > I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in > our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? > > I would like to: > > Use an internal IM system for staff to use. > Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. > Keep track of who they connect to. i think you should be able to use iptables to block outgoing traffic to any server from any port to the msn port. something like this should suffice: iptables -A FORWARD -i $LAN_INTERFACE -o $EXT_INTERFACE -p tcp -s $LAN_ADDRESSES --sport $UNPRIVPORTS --dport 1863 -j DROP iptables -A FORWARD -i $LAN_INTERFACE -o $EXT_INTERFACE -p tcp -s $LAN_ADDRESSES --sport $UNPRIVPORTS --dport 9000 -j DROP of course a better way would be to use a default DROP policy and accept only certain traffic, like any packets from $LAN to $WORLD with a source port of $ANYTHING to a destination port of 80,21 etc. -- Jubel Early: You're all insane. Simon: My sister's a ship. We had a fairly complicated childhood. - Jubel Early and Simon, Firefly, "Objects in Space" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 20:01:14 2004 From: wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (WK) Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:01:14 -0400 Subject: Instant Messaging Woes In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D72-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6D72@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <4117D80A.6000301@halfmind.com> I read it from newsgroup a while back ago, but never done it ... To block msn, icq, yahoo, simply block the logon server the instant messenger client is connecting to. To log instant messenger chat log, take a look at msgsnarf (a tool comes with dsniff). Wil McGilvery wrote: > Some of the IM clients use port 80 when their other port is blocked. I know MSN does this. The only way to block this is to start using an application proxy. > > I may not be able to control who they chat with, but it would nice to have log files for reference. > > Regards, > > Wil McGilvery > Manager > Lynch Digital Media Inc > > > > 416-744-7949 > 416-716-3964 (cell) > 1-866-314-4678 > 416-744-0406 FAX > www.LynchDigital.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Kevin Cozens > Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:01 PM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Instant Messaging Woes > > At 10:49 AM 08/09/2004, Wil McGilvery wrote: > >>I am now in the position of having to regulate Instant Message clients in >>our Network. Does anyone have experience with this? > > [snip] > >>I would like to: >> >>Use an internal IM system for staff to use. >>Allow certain employees to connect to the outside world. >>Keep track of who they connect to. > > [snip] > >>I don't want to shutdown the Instant Message clients completely. Currently >>the client of choice is MSN. > > > I don't know how easy it would be to keep track of who someone is chatting > with via an IM client. As for controlling it, the first step would be in > identifying the port(s) used by the client. In the case of ICQ, it used > port 4000 (IIRC). With that program, you could control use of it by adding > rules to your firewall related to the use of port 4000. > > > Cheers! > > Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) > > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" > E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: > Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" > #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 22:05:24 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:05:24 -0400 Subject: LCD monitor questions In-Reply-To: <20040809185604.GE28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20040809011943.GA943@m450> <20040809182518.GO14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040809183150.GD28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <20040809183520.GQ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040809185604.GE28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040809220524.GR14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 09, 2004 at 02:56:04PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > On CRTs, yes. I think that they did 1280x1024 because on some > monitors it > just doesn't "look right". Might have to do with standard monitor sizes > and the dot pitch (so phosphors were not lined up nicely, causing > moire patterns > or some silly thing like that) Well the Mac always used 1152x864 and 1280x960 to keep things consistent. Someone in the PC world must have thought 1280x1024 was a nice size (it does give a nice power of 2 height, which probably uses the memory a bit more efficiently, although 1152x864 was a better use when packed into 1M ram for 8bit or 2M ram for 16bit colour). I guess in 4M 1280x1024 nicely worked out with 4k per row. A bit of gain in screen space at the expense of messing up the aspect ratio I suppose. > But if it's displaying perfectly square pixels, do you really care > what the shape > of the screen is enough to not want to use some pixels? Stick your > XMMS playlist > in the extra space if you don't want to use it for webbrowsing, or > something. ;) Well there have been applications (NT4's OpenGL implementation for example) where the aspect ratio had to be 4:3 or it didn't work right. Bad coding certainly, but it has happened. I want a 1600x1200 screen if I could just afford one. :) Or 2048x1536 could be nice. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 9 23:55:53 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 19:55:53 -0400 Subject: Free Hardware at August 10th TLUG meeting. Message-ID: <000d01c47e6c$67fe3fe0$4501a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Just to help encourage folks to show up at the August 10th TLUG meeting I will have some free stuff. First I will have a few of the "Unreal Tournament 2003" posters that I gave away at the last NewTLUG, and the last TLUG meeting (in case anyone missed those events). Second I will have some free hardware, say at least enough for 10 people, what hardware you ask? Well that will be a surprise... still a few hints: - They are fairly small, after all I plan to come from reSource with these 10+ units in my backpack. - As far as I can tell these units have never been used operationally, in other words new stuff. - They do have a USB connector on them. - They are supported under Linux. Want to know more? Well, come out to the August 10th TLUG meeting... Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 10 04:02:14 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 00:02:14 -0400 Subject: syncing directories In-Reply-To: <1091948316.2863.124.camel-VXcFv1kic5hTCdAjEesVgA@public.gmane.org> References: <1091948316.2863.124.camel@www.sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040810040214.A792E4606@cbbrowne.com> > I'm looking for the best way to sync (or mirror ?) directories between > my desktop, my laptop, and a usb key. > I have been experimenting with rsync (dangerous ?) and have the nagging > feeling that there must be a better way. Any suggestions ? Unison uses the same algorithms, and will _definitely_ play well with your intended application. The main difference is actually good news; it is aware of which files have changed on each side, and will allow you to sync both ways, sending/receiving whichever files ought to be sent/received. -- "cbbrowne","@","ntlug.org" http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/rdbms.html The purpose of an undergraduate education at MIT is to give you a case of post-traumatic stress syndrome that won't wear off for forty years. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 10 14:13:16 2004 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: payment setup on web store In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040810141316.17503.qmail@web50809.mail.yahoo.com> Thanks Anthony and other people who helped me, It works for me now. Best regards! HUI Anthony Tekatch wrote: I used PayPal for a while but some customers complained about having to sign up and also not being able to order from certain countries. Then I switched to InternetSecure: http://internetsecure.com I link to them from my site: http://www.unihedron.com/projects/spectrum/ After filling out a simple form for quantity, the customer is directed to InternetSecure and can be validated instantly. It's a bit expensive (about $25/month) but the sales seem to have gone up to help for that. Good luck, Anthony -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 10 14:40:10 2004 From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 10:40:10 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call for future speakers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I think another possibility is for developers to give a short talk about any projects they are currently working on. Good idea? Bad idea? JV On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Could anyone interested in doing talks for September or later in > the year please email with possible topics. Is there anyone who has not > done a talk at all? Now is your chance? :) > Talks can be anything Linux/Unix related. Got a favourite utility or > application? Tell us why you love it. Know some cool tricks with the > shell? Great. > I also believe lighter talks are fine. Linux isn't just about work. Got > a favourite Unix game? Tell us about that. > I think that talks on games would probably be shorter so we may try to fit > 2 or 3 into one evening. Ideally these would be games that were > exclusively or predominantly Unix rather than cross-platform games that > are probably better known. Examples include Crossfire and Netrek. Both > of these started life on Unix and despite the existance of non-Unix > clients they are still predominantly played by Unix users. > Is anyone interested in a (fun) debate for a meeting. This would consist > of two teams each with 3 participants. Each speaker would have a period > of about 3 minutes in which to talk. Ie, pretty standard debating format. > I helped organised one of these for another club and it was a big success. > Suggested Debate Topics: > Vi vs Emacs. > "C is too much trouble to learn these days" (for/against) > "LAMP/LAPP is the future" (for/against) > Please follow-up with support or opposition to a debate and possible > topics. > TLUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 10 15:08:59 2004 From: louiehui_xu-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (hui xu) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:08:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call for future speakers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040810150859.470.qmail@web50802.mail.yahoo.com> All, Is that possibale to broadcast the speach on the internet? I am living in mississauga and my working schedule can not allow me to go to the meeting, Because of this I feel I missed a lot of interested topics. Best regards! hui John Vetterli wrote: I think another possibility is for developers to give a short talk about any projects they are currently working on. Good idea? Bad idea? JV On Mon, 9 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > Hi all. Could anyone interested in doing talks for September or later in > the year please email with possible topics. Is there anyone who has not > done a talk at all? Now is your chance? :) > Talks can be anything Linux/Unix related. Got a favourite utility or > application? Tell us why you love it. Know some cool tricks with the > shell? Great. > I also believe lighter talks are fine. Linux isn't just about work. Got > a favourite Unix game? Tell us about that. > I think that talks on games would probably be shorter so we may try to fit > 2 or 3 into one evening. Ideally these would be games that were > exclusively or predominantly Unix rather than cross-platform games that > are probably better known. Examples include Crossfire and Netrek. Both > of these started life on Unix and despite the existance of non-Unix > clients they are still predominantly played by Unix users. > Is anyone interested in a (fun) debate for a meeting. This would consist > of two teams each with 3 participants. Each speaker would have a period > of about 3 minutes in which to talk. Ie, pretty standard debating format. > I helped organised one of these for another club and it was a big success. > Suggested Debate Topics: > Vi vs Emacs. > "C is too much trouble to learn these days" (for/against) > "LAMP/LAPP is the future" (for/against) > Please follow-up with support or opposition to a debate and possible > topics. > TLUG Talks Coordinator -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml --------------------------------- Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 10 15:17:15 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 10 Aug 2004 11:17:15 -0400 Subject: Call for future speakers In-Reply-To: <20040810150859.470.qmail-R2miST5oPbOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040810150859.470.qmail@web50802.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: hui xu writes: > Is that possibale to broadcast the speach on the internet? It's a possibility. If this is made into something _big_, would the audience behave? -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 10 15:27:57 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (colin McGregor) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 11:27:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speech on Linux... Message-ID: <20040810152757.60396.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Ran across this speech by Rob Enderle who works for a firm closely associated with SCO, with his thoughts about Linux: http://www.sco.com/2004forum/agenda/Enderle_keynote_SCO-Forum2004.html Seems somebody forgot to get their rabies shots :-) . -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 10 21:33:31 2004 From: emmajane-MHIYrZpDPrNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Emma Jane Hogbin) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 17:33:31 -0400 Subject: TLUG Talk - August 10, 2004 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040810213331.GB29060@smeagol> Hi everyone, Apparently there is no projector for my presentation tonight. What I'm going to present will based on the slides posted here: http://xtrinsic.com/tlug/040810/ however, the presentation won't make as much sense without the bits typed out and the screen captures... I'll try to get some print-outs made, but you'll definitely have to share with the person next to you. thanks, emma -- Emma Jane Hogbin [[ 416 417 2868 ][ www.xtrinsic.com ]] -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 03:43:46 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 23:43:46 -0400 Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: <20040810152757.60396.qmail-2K+iNxKRQwOB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040810152757.60396.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <411995F2.7090600@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Boy, this is a hard one... colin McGregor wrote: > Ran across this speech by Rob Enderle who works for a > firm closely associated with SCO, with his thoughts > about Linux: > > http://www.sco.com/2004forum/agenda/Enderle_keynote_SCO-Forum2004.html > > Seems somebody forgot to get their rabies shots :-) . On the one hand, I have to agree with two of the things said in that speech: 1. Some people take the closed-source vs. open-source debate far too personally. They start making it a religious thing, and end up attacking entire companies or even broader groups of people (entire countries). This is really a waste of time; the debate should focus on specific cases. Open-source is just another business/distribution model. Sometimes it works very well, at other times it fails: how many /real/ games are open source (I mean something on the scale of Quake, UT, Doom, Age of Empires, etc.)? There is a reason for this, and people shouldn't get emotional about it. 2. Software developers often don't value their own time/skills. Time is arguably one of our greatest assets, and while sharing source code is beneficial to the development and growth of software, giving away the code completely for free is just not smart. While making the software free for personal/non-profit use makes sense (few people going to go out and buy a $5000 http server license for their personal website), businesses should be charged for the use of software. Businesses invest money into lawyers, accountants, designers, etc. Why not software? This would also mean that software can compete on the basis of usability/design, rather than, "this is free so it's better". Let me clarify that. General software (i.e. kernel, browser, etc. - the stuff that open source is strongest in) should be free for non-profit/personal use. Businesses have to either pay a fee, or actively contribute to the software (sort of like a community source license idea). Specialized (narrow market) software such as games, CAD, bank systems, etc. can be proprietary. I mean, how many people here really need to use the same bank system as TD? How many will contribute to it? This way some of the goals of the open source "movement" are met - the public has access to high quality software at low-to-zero cost and collaboration/contribution is encouraged. On the other hand, developers can still make money by "scratching other's itches" and by providing software to others who then use it to provide some sort of service (businesses). On the other hand, I think Rob Enderle is on crack if he thinks supporting SCO is the right way to go about supporting this issue. I mean, how hard is it to see that SCO is in the business of FUD? I think he's making the right arguments but for the wrong reasons (as in good PR). - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBGZXxRreNkzrRRLQRAglMAKCgnono+UkUJ4W8oNP5uBBaehrbUACgklhQ zqgUttYuaviaEAZvwNrIcxg= =TXvr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 06:32:53 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 02:32:53 -0400 Subject: Change From: in Evolution Message-ID: <20040811063253.GA14122@butters.WorkGroup> Can anyone tell me how to change the From: field in Evolution on the fly? I thought that this would be relatively easy, but can't figure out how to do it. -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 06:36:16 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 02:36:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speech on Linux... Message-ID: On Tue, 10 Aug 2004, Anton Markov wrote: > 2. Software developers often don't value their own time/skills. Time is > arguably one of our greatest assets, and while sharing source code is > beneficial to the development and growth of software, giving away the > code completely for free is just not smart. While making the software There's a lot in this email and to be honest I'm not going to debate it with you because it's all been said and done before. I did however want to cover this one small point because it is straight forward. It is easy to refute your statement above. Consider this: I write some code. I realise it under an open source licence. Someone else takes it and improves it. I download the improved code and use it. I have engaged in no additional effort but an benefitting because I originally released the code. I am better off than I would have been had I not released the code. Therefore it was smart to release the code so your assertion is false. QED. As much as 90% of all code is meant for internal use only and will never be commercially offered under any circumstances. The company loses nothing by releasing it and enjoyingthe benefits of the improvements it receives. This is one of the corner stones of the OSS movement. I can give you code without losing it myself, unlike a physical object. We can give each other code and we are both richer. If everyone does it the entire community is richer and each person is individually richer as well. There are more ways to make money from IT then software licencing. It really is a bizarre concept. Imagine if books were licenced like commercial software so that lending your book to someone to read was a violation of the licencing agreement. Remember many such licencing agreements specifically prohibit transfering software between machines even when there is no intention of running the software concurrently under the same licence. The OSS movement is consistently turning out higher quality software than commerical companies. I think the reasons are pretty obvious. A couple of the reasons are: 1. Many OSS projects can draw from a much larger developer base. A large development house could have 50 developers split between many projects, but OSS projects can draw hundreds of developers working part time. Overall many OSS projects have more time invested in them than commercial projects of similar size. 2. Much commercial software is marketting driven. This often leads to elaborate but rarely used features added with each new version to encourage existing customers to upgrade (and to enourage new customers to a lesser extent). OSS development is community driven. I can't tell you the number of times I've wished for a feature in an OSS tool and without saying a word to anyone it has appeared within a few months. Why? Because others wanted it too and the community driven effort pushed those features in. Many large software houses ignore all but the largest clients with feature requests. Some OSS projects have not proceeded well, and some specific areas have been left untouched when one might expect an OSS offering to appear. This was a problem in OSS for a long time, but you know what - those are the areas that IBM, Novell, SGI and others focus on. They have figured out they can make money with OSS so they are investing in the areas that will ultimately benefit them the most. They base their work on the work of others and ultimately give back. As I've said on this list before, capitalism is only one approach to wealth. I could go on but I won't. This topic has been rehashed so many times. This turned out quite long :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 06:49:26 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:49:26 +0800 Subject: TOP PRI value problem.. Message-ID: <200408111449.26891.jerome@gmanmi.tv> i recompiled a 2.4.26 kernel and enabled raid because im using software raid.. i rebooted my pc using the new kernel.. and now top is showing this.. 8 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 mdrecoveryd 17 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d 18 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d 19 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d this doesnt look good.. can anyone tell me what i did wrong..? TIA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 12:52:11 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 11 Aug 2004 08:52:11 -0400 Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: <411995F2.7090600-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040810152757.60396.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <411995F2.7090600@truxtar.com> Message-ID: Anton Markov writes: > Let me clarify that. General software (i.e. kernel, browser, etc. - the > stuff that open source is strongest in) should be free for > non-profit/personal use. Businesses have to either pay a fee, or > actively contribute to the software (sort of like a community source > license idea). Specialized (narrow market) software such as games, CAD, > bank systems, etc. can be proprietary. I mean, how many people here > really need to use the same bank system as TD? Anyone with an account at TD. :-) Seriously, many bank web sites still don't work well with open source browsers despite serious warnings from CERT about the dangers of continuing to use IE. While it may not make sense to completely open source their on-line banking sites, clearly they could benefit from the use of open source web frameworks and content management solutions. And they could "pay" for the use of open souce software by contributing back to (some of) the tools they use. Since they already pay a large number of in-house developers and consultants to work on their closed source systems, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by redirecting (some of) those efforts to supporting open source systems which already work as well or better than their in-house code. As Robert said in his follow-up, something like 90% of code in production is written in-house. How much of that, do you think, is a result of NIH syndrome? In my experience, most of it. Imagine a world where just half of these largely wasted resources were redirected to open source projects. Computers might actually be useful. :-) -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 13:10:49 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:10:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 11 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > Some OSS projects have not proceeded well, and some specific areas have > been left untouched when one might expect an OSS offering to appear... And there are some areas where one doesn't expect an open-source offering to appear. The classic example is tax software, which has to change every year, and needs concentrated expert attention on a strict schedule. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 12:23:08 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:23:08 -0400 Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: <411995F2.7090600-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040810152757.60396.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <411995F2.7090600@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <411A0FAC.8080009@sympatico.ca> dang, and I thought we were going to be talking about speech synthesis too. festival is good, if a large and unwieldy install. It does accents pretty well, but you have to go to the home site to get proper language kits for it. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 12:33:26 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 08:33:26 -0400 Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411A1216.7040701@sympatico.ca> Robert Brockway wrote: > > Imagine if books were licenced like > commercial software so that lending your book to someone to read was a > violation of the licencing agreement. In the UK at least, lending books *is* illegal. Libraries have a special dispensation to lend books. As the clause states something like, 'This book may not be lent, resold, ..." secondhand bookstores are also technically illegal. I don't know if there have ever been any prosecutions for this. Mind you, as the UK used to have the Nett Book Agreement (== price fixing cartel between publishers and booksellers), and still has exclusive Queen's Printers for certain books (woe betide anyone who publishes an online bible in Scotland without Collins's permission), it's a pretty messed-up place. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 13:26:17 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 09:26:17 -0400 Subject: TOP PRI value problem.. In-Reply-To: <200408111449.26891.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200408111449.26891.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20040811132617.GS14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 02:49:26PM +0800, JM wrote: > i recompiled a 2.4.26 kernel and enabled raid because im using software raid.. i rebooted my pc using the > new kernel.. > > and now top is showing this.. > > 8 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 mdrecoveryd > 17 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > 18 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > 19 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > > this doesnt look good.. can anyone tell me what i did wrong..? Did you upgrade to a new kernel at the same time? Is your version of procps (and hence top) out of date? Bad compiler version used (seems unlikely)? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 15:32:24 2004 From: alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:32:24 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus Message-ID: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> I have an IDE CDROM reader and a SCSI (Yamaha, ID=3) CDROM writer. cdrecord -scanbus (Redhat 7.3) used to report SCSI devices only and showed the Yamaha. Now, with Fedora-2, cdrecord -scanbus shows me the IDE CDROM but not the Yamaha. although I can mount and read the Yamaha I'd like to get xcdroast working, but won't get very far until cdrecord knows the Yamaha is there. Any suggestions? -- Alan Cohen Computer Advocacy Inc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 15:55:06 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:55:06 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <1092238343.2967.21.camel-GpcmGeqvc4UGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <20040811155506.GT14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 11:32:24AM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > I have an IDE CDROM reader and a SCSI (Yamaha, ID=3) CDROM writer. > > cdrecord -scanbus (Redhat 7.3) used to report SCSI devices only and > showed the Yamaha. > > Now, with Fedora-2, cdrecord -scanbus shows me the IDE CDROM but not the > Yamaha. although I can mount and read the Yamaha > > I'd like to get xcdroast working, but won't get very far until cdrecord > knows the Yamaha is there. Any suggestions? Is the sg module loaded? Is the sr module loaded? sg is scsi generic, used to send low level commands to scsi devices. sr is the scsi rom driver for read only devices like cdrom and such. I suspect it will work fine if those are loaded. cdrecord used to only support scsi devices and would automatically look for them causing any needed modules to be loaded. I don't think it assumes that anymore, so I guess you have to be sure your drivers are loaded. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 16:04:21 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 12:04:21 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <1092238343.2967.21.camel-GpcmGeqvc4UGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <411A4385.3020908@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It is possible that Fedora uses the new 2.6 kernel (what does "uname -r" say?), and cdrecord defaults to scanning IDE devices. Try "cdrecord dev=help", and then "cdrecord -scanbus dev=" where is reported by the "dev=help" option. Something like "dev=sg" or "dev=pg" may help. Try loading the modules first as Lennart suggested. Alan Cohen wrote: > I have an IDE CDROM reader and a SCSI (Yamaha, ID=3) CDROM writer. > > cdrecord -scanbus (Redhat 7.3) used to report SCSI devices only and > showed the Yamaha. > > Now, with Fedora-2, cdrecord -scanbus shows me the IDE CDROM but not the > Yamaha. although I can mount and read the Yamaha > > I'd like to get xcdroast working, but won't get very far until cdrecord > knows the Yamaha is there. Any suggestions? > - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBGkOERreNkzrRRLQRAlWtAKCBB2EPPV5uO3gQA9ho9gH5AxormACcDJn6 UJgoKTDRa77ckoRU0CgCN4g= =72pP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 15:54:36 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 11:54:36 -0400 Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: References: <20040810152757.60396.qmail@web88207.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <411995F2.7090600@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <411A413C.5000605@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 It seems some of you misinterpreted what I was trying to say: Tim Writer wrote: > Anton Markov writes: >>Let me clarify that. General software (i.e. kernel, browser, etc. - the >>stuff that open source is strongest in) should be free for >>non-profit/personal use. Businesses have to either pay a fee, or >>actively contribute to the software (sort of like a community source >>license idea). Specialized (narrow market) software such as games, CAD, >>bank systems, etc. can be proprietary. I mean, how many people here >>really need to use the same bank system as TD? What I mean, is that it is OK for some software not to be open source. If the developers don't want the benefits of community collaboration and would rather market the software the old-fashioned way, let them. If Microsoft can't make a decent web browser, their loss (OK, so they shouldn't force people to use it, but that's a separate issue). On the other hand, if a game becomes popular *despite* being proprietary, there is nothing wrong with that. > Since they already pay a > large number of in-house developers and consultants to work on their closed > source systems, they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by > redirecting (some of) those efforts to supporting open source systems which > already work as well or better than their in-house code. > > As Robert said in his follow-up, something like 90% of code in production is > written in-house. How much of that, do you think, is a result of NIH > syndrome? In my experience, most of it. Imagine a world where just half of > these largely wasted resources were redirected to open source > projects. Computers might actually be useful. :-) I didn't say software should not be open source. While the GPL and similar licenses guarantee that any code *released* under the license will be open source, it says nothing about businesses using software and never releasing it. Like you said above, we need to encourage businesses to redirect their in-house developers towards improving the open source software they use. If we asked businesses to make a contribution to the software they use (money, code, hardware, etc.), it would be no different than an accountant charging them for their services, except that the community would benefit. The software would still remain open source, but the extra contributions would help improve the quality of the software. Of course I know this would never happen over night. I just think it's something the open source community needs to discuss. Someone mentioned a long time ago how people expect computer advice for free. Letting businesses use software without some sort of return (and not just "saving the Earth from the scum of Redmond.."), is along the same lines. I am just trying to understand why it is so commonplace. (If someone wants this subject dropped _now_, just says so. I'll apologize and shut up). - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBGkE7RreNkzrRRLQRAhrKAJ0VOT3rNs20CsqeasruWhrr39y0XQCdHpc6 sW1EPBnDnkDXB/De99W+laE= =QPps -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 18:40:01 2004 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 14:40:01 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <411A4385.3020908-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> <411A4385.3020908@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <1092249600.6067.65.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Alan Cohen wrote: > > with Fedora-2, cdrecord -scanbus shows me the IDE CDROM but not the > > Yamaha. although I can mount and read the Yamaha On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 12:04, Anton Markov wrote: > It is possible that Fedora uses the new 2.6 kernel (what does "uname -r" > say?), and cdrecord defaults to scanning IDE devices. Try "cdrecord > dev=help", and then "cdrecord -scanbus dev=" where > is reported by the "dev=help" option. Something like > "dev=sg" or "dev=pg" may help. > > Try loading the modules first as Lennart suggested. ... no joy yet ... uname -r says 2.6.5-1.358 It seems to me that sg and sr_mod (not sr) modules are already loaded. Excerpt from lsmod ------------------ MODULE SIZE USED BY sg 27552 0 sr_mod 13348 0 scsi_mod 91344 4 sg,sr_mod,aic7xxx,sd_mod Excerpt from cdrecord -scanbus dev=help --------------------------------------- Transport name: sg Transport descr.: Generic transport independent SCSI Transp. layer ind.: Target specifier: bus,target,lun Target example: 1,2,0 SCSI Bus scanning: supported Open via UNIX device: not supported cdrecord -scanbus dev=sg (same results if dev=sr or dev=sr_mod) ------------------------ Cdrecord-Clone 2.01a27-dvd (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2004 J?rg Schilling Note: This version is an unofficial (modified) version with DVD support Note: and therefore may have bugs that are not present in the original. Note: Please send bug reports or support requests to scsidev: 'sg' devname: 'sg' scsibus: -2 target: -2 lun: -2 Warning: Open by 'devname' is unintentional and not supported. cdrecord: No such file or directory. Cannot open 'sg'. Cannot open SCSI driver. cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. Make sure you are root. cdrecord: For possible transport specifiers try 'cdrecord dev=help' -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 19:15:53 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:15:53 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <1092249600.6067.65.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> <411A4385.3020908@truxtar.com> <1092249600.6067.65.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <200408111515.53788.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 11, 2004 02:40 pm, Alan Cohen wrote: > ... no joy yet ... > > uname -r says 2.6.5-1.358 Does "cdrecord dev=ATAPI -scanbus" give you anything? At somepoint I had to use something like "cdrecord dev=ATAPI:0,0,0 blah.iso" for burning. Lately I've used k3b for burning so I'm not sure if this still works. I suspect that having ide-scsi loaded may also interfere with things, is that module loaded, try unloading it and make sure that your kernel command line doesn't include something like hdc=ide-scsi. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 19:17:15 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:17:15 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <1092249600.6067.65.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> <411A4385.3020908@truxtar.com> <1092249600.6067.65.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <20040811191715.GU14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 02:40:01PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > Alan Cohen wrote: > > > with Fedora-2, cdrecord -scanbus shows me the IDE CDROM but not the > > > Yamaha. although I can mount and read the Yamaha > > On Wed, 2004-08-11 at 12:04, Anton Markov wrote: > > It is possible that Fedora uses the new 2.6 kernel (what does "uname -r" > > say?), and cdrecord defaults to scanning IDE devices. Try "cdrecord > > dev=help", and then "cdrecord -scanbus dev=" where > > is reported by the "dev=help" option. Something like > > "dev=sg" or "dev=pg" may help. > > > > Try loading the modules first as Lennart suggested. > > ... no joy yet ... > > uname -r says 2.6.5-1.358 > > It seems to me that sg and sr_mod (not sr) modules are already loaded. > Excerpt from lsmod > ------------------ > MODULE SIZE USED BY > sg 27552 0 > sr_mod 13348 0 > scsi_mod 91344 4 sg,sr_mod,aic7xxx,sd_mod > > Excerpt from cdrecord -scanbus dev=help > --------------------------------------- > Transport name: sg > Transport descr.: Generic transport independent SCSI > Transp. layer ind.: > Target specifier: bus,target,lun > Target example: 1,2,0 > SCSI Bus scanning: supported > Open via UNIX device: not supported > > cdrecord -scanbus dev=sg (same results if dev=sr or dev=sr_mod) > ------------------------ > Cdrecord-Clone 2.01a27-dvd (i686-pc-linux-gnu) Copyright (C) 1995-2004 > J??rg Schilling > Note: This version is an unofficial (modified) version with DVD support > Note: and therefore may have bugs that are not present in the original. > Note: Please send bug reports or support requests to > > > scsidev: 'sg' > devname: 'sg' > scsibus: -2 target: -2 lun: -2 > Warning: Open by 'devname' is unintentional and not supported. > cdrecord: No such file or directory. > Cannot open 'sg'. Cannot open SCSI driver. > cdrecord: For possible targets try 'cdrecord -scanbus'. > Make sure you are root. > cdrecord: For possible transport specifiers try 'cdrecord dev=help' Well have you tried using a real version of cdrecord? At least on debian they call it dvdrecord when they apply that ugly useless dvd writing hack (growisofs from dvd+rw-tools is a far better way to write DVDs anyhow). Who knows what else they changed while they were at it. Does /proc/scsi/scsi see the cd-writer as a device? On my debian system, it finds scsi cdroms fine by default if I have ide-scsi sr_mod and sg loaded, and finds them fine too if I have ide-cd loaded instead. I don't know how it behaves with both a scsi and ide cdrom drive on the system, since I haven't tried booting with hdc=ide-scsi to run one drive each way. I do HAVE to run cdrecord -scanbus -dev ATAPI to see the ide drives. By default a normal cdrecord does not look for ide devices on Linux. I suspect a patch has changed that and may be the cause of your problems. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 19:17:45 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 15:17:45 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <200408111515.53788.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> <411A4385.3020908@truxtar.com> <1092249600.6067.65.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <200408111515.53788.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <20040811191745.GV14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 03:15:53PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On August 11, 2004 02:40 pm, Alan Cohen wrote: > > > ... no joy yet ... > > > > uname -r says 2.6.5-1.358 > > Does "cdrecord dev=ATAPI -scanbus" give you anything? At somepoint I had to > use something like "cdrecord dev=ATAPI:0,0,0 blah.iso" for burning. Lately > I've used k3b for burning so I'm not sure if this still works. > > I suspect that having ide-scsi loaded may also interfere with things, is that > module loaded, try unloading it and make sure that your kernel command line > doesn't include something like hdc=ide-scsi. I think in this case it actually IS a scsi writer. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 20:30:30 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:30:30 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery Message-ID: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> Before I just let my fingers do the walking, can anyone recommend a data recovery shop they've dealt with? I have a HD with data that it would be nice to recover, but it's not even detected by the BIOS, let alone a rescue CD or floppy. Thanks all! -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 16:27:43 up 7 days, 16:10, 9 users, load average: 0.99, 0.71, 0.58 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "One of the most dangerous errors of our time is the belief that human beings are uniquely violent animals, barely restrained from committing atrocities on each other by the constraints of ethics, religion, and the state." -- Eric S. Raymond -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 22:17:44 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:17:44 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> > Before I just let my fingers do the walking, can anyone recommend a data > recovery shop they've dealt with? I have a HD with data that it would be nice > to recover, but it's not even detected by the BIOS, let alone a rescue CD or > floppy. We had a talk last fall from ActionFront Data Recovery who seemed fairly clueful. It's not cheap, and the results are pretty forcibly limited. Make sure you unplug your device ASAP, and don't plug it in again lest you damage it further, if you're heading down this road... -- If this was helpful, rate me http://cbbrowne.com/info/linuxxian.html The only problem with Haiku is that you just get started and then -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 22:47:48 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:47:48 -0400 Subject: You *KNOW* linux has hit the big time... Message-ID: <20040811224748.GA3052@m450> ...when the spammers start pushing it . > Received: (qmail 1470 invoked by uid 2446); 10 Aug 2004 20:15:44 -0000 > Delivered-To: waltdnes-waltdnes.org-waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org > Received: (qmail 1431 invoked from network); Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:15:21 -0500 > Received: from b12e0.b.pppool.de (213.7.18.224) > by manson.clss.net with SMTP; > Tue, 10 Aug 2004 15:15:21 -0500 > Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 20:12:48 +0000 > From: developer-IM/HjDsIS+WfNDENJbnUqbNAH6kLmebB at public.gmane.org > Subject: new O E M software > To: Waltdnes > References: > In-Reply-To: > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Type: text/plain > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > O E M (Original Equipment Manufacturer) software includes all > essential components of Microsoft Retail products excluding support > from Microsoft. Retail version comes in a fancy box, O E M does > not. You will receive installation CDs only (no original retail > packing). Although O E M software does not come with a box or a > manual, it is the typical and actual software, no trial or demo > versions. > > [...snip website name so they don't get free advertising...] > > RedHat Linux 9.0 > Retail price: $79.99 > Our low Price: $60.00 > You Save: $19.99 [...snip a whole bunch of Windows software...] This group knows that RedHat 9.0 is obsolete and unsupported, and you can download it for free at http://www.linuxiso.org and I don't think you'll actually get anything delivered; the spammers/scammers will go to town on suckers' credit cards. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 23:07:01 2004 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 19:07:01 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <20040811191715.GU14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> <411A4385.3020908@truxtar.com> <1092249600.6067.65.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20040811191715.GU14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1092265621.9155.15.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 02:40:01PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > with Fedora-2, cdrecord -scanbus shows me the IDE CDROM but not the > Yamaha. although I can mount and read the Yamaha Apparently, I'm not the only one with this question. It seems that the necessary command is ... cdrecord -scanbus dev=/dev/scd0 ... so now I can begin. I have a iso9660 image in a file. I don't know much about xcdroast or k3b, so I'm using plain ordinary cdrecord as in cdrecord -v speed=2 dev=/dev/scd0:0,3,0 -date my.iso.filspc P.S. It's a Yamaha CRW4416s (circa 1998) that I got for $29.00 I understood that SCSI was the way to go with CD burners but now I hear that IDE burners are just as good. -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 01:26:49 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:26:49 -0400 Subject: cdrecord -scanbus In-Reply-To: <1092265621.9155.15.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1092238343.2967.21.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> <411A4385.3020908@truxtar.com> <1092249600.6067.65.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> <20040811191715.GU14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1092265621.9155.15.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <20040812012649.GW14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 07:07:01PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 02:40:01PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > > with Fedora-2, cdrecord -scanbus shows me the IDE CDROM but not the > > Yamaha. although I can mount and read the Yamaha > > Apparently, I'm not the only one with this question. It seems that the > necessary command is ... > cdrecord -scanbus dev=/dev/scd0 Well that's not how it's supposed to be, but if it works, I guess go with that until it is broken again. > ... so now I can begin. > I have a iso9660 image in a file. > I don't know much about xcdroast or k3b, so I'm using plain ordinary > cdrecord as in > cdrecord -v speed=2 dev=/dev/scd0:0,3,0 -date my.iso.filspc > > P.S. It's a Yamaha CRW4416s (circa 1998) that I got for $29.00 > I understood that SCSI was the way to go with CD burners but now I > hear that IDE burners are just as good. Well a new driver would be way faster and not much more, and would not require a scsi card either. Before you could do direct to ATAPI writing in Linux, yeah scsi was really the way to go. Now ATAPI is really the way to go for modern CD writers. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 01:52:07 2004 From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:52:07 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040811215207.04dd332d.hgibson@eol.ca> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 16:30:30 -0400 JoeHill wrote: > JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org > 16:27:43 up 7 days, 16:10, 9 users, load average: 0.99, 0.71, 0.58 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > "One of the most dangerous errors of our time is the belief that human beings > are uniquely violent animals, barely restrained from committing atrocities on > each other by the constraints of ethics, religion, and the state." -- Eric S. > Raymond Uh, I think Eric is recommending guns here. This will probably not help you recover your data. :) -- Howard Gibson hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 04:03:57 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:03:57 +0800 Subject: TOP PRI value problem.. In-Reply-To: <20040811132617.GS14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200408111449.26891.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20040811132617.GS14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200408121203.57446.jerome@gmanmi.tv> On Wednesday 11 August 2004 21:26, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 02:49:26PM +0800, JM wrote: > > i recompiled a 2.4.26 kernel and enabled raid because im using software > > raid.. i rebooted my pc using the > > > new kernel.. > > > > and now top is showing this.. > > > > 8 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > 0.0 0:00 0 mdrecoveryd > > > 17 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > > > 18 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > > > 19 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > > > this doesnt look good.. can anyone tell me what i did wrong..? > > Did you upgrade to a new kernel at the same time? yes. > Is your version of > procps (and hence top) out of date? im using procps-2.0.11-6. ill try to upgrade this and see what happens.. TIA > Bad compiler version used (seems > unlikely)? > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 05:05:19 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:05:19 +0800 Subject: TOP PRI value problem.. In-Reply-To: <200408121203.57446.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200408111449.26891.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20040811132617.GS14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200408121203.57446.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <200408121305.19637.jerome@gmanmi.tv> i upgraded my procps and top doesnt show the big value in PRI.. Thaks again On Thursday 12 August 2004 12:03, JM wrote: > On Wednesday 11 August 2004 21:26, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 02:49:26PM +0800, JM wrote: > > > i recompiled a 2.4.26 kernel and enabled raid because im using software > > > > raid.. i rebooted my pc using the > > > > > new kernel.. > > > > > > and now top is showing this.. > > > > > > 8 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > > > 0.0 0:00 0 mdrecoveryd > > > > > 17 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > > > 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > > > > > 18 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > > > 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > > > > > 19 root 18446744073709551615 -20 0 0 0 SW< 0.0 > > > > 0.0 0:00 0 raid1d > > > > > this doesnt look good.. can anyone tell me what i did wrong..? > > > > Did you upgrade to a new kernel at the same time? > > yes. > > > Is your version of > > procps (and hence top) out of date? > > im using procps-2.0.11-6. ill try to upgrade this and see what happens.. > > TIA > > > Bad compiler version used (seems > > unlikely)? > > > > Lennart Sorensen > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 11 04:46:54 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Wed, 11 Aug 2004 00:46:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash question Message-ID: I was trying to use ${foo:-1:2} in bash but it does not work (it is supposed to extract the last 2 chars in $foo. However ${foo:${#foo}-2:2} works as expected. The questions: - does it also work in a newer bash (with ${#}) ? - is this a known problem or did I just find it ? Note that I am using a newer bash: GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release but the manual page I just referenced is from an older one (the new one does not have the manpage installed - yet). Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 13:04:06 2004 From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:04:06 -0400 Subject: bash question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040812130406.GA1025@biff.bort.ca> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 12:46:54AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > I was trying to use ${foo:-1:2} in bash but it does not work (it is > supposed to extract the last 2 chars in $foo. However ${foo:${#foo}-2:2} > works as expected. Try ${foo: -1:2} (note the space) to help bash distinguish from the ${foo:-show me when foo is null} case. Also, if you want the last two characters then it should be ${foo: -2:2}. HTH, -- Rick Delaney rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 13:43:55 2004 From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:43:55 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1064.142.177.92.49.1092318235.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Actually, during the era of the Commodore PET and C64 computers, Jim Butterfield (who lives in Toronto) provided tax software on an annual basis for free. I concede in advance that it was not as sophisticated as provided by the professionals, and he may well have given it up. It was written in BASIC, of course. (This is simply to illustrate a law of nature: there is always a counterexample ;) Peter > And there are some areas where one doesn't expect an open-source offering > to appear. The classic example is tax software, which has to change every > year, and needs concentrated expert attention on a strict schedule. > > Henry Spencer > henry at spsystems.net > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 14:24:06 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 10:24:06 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file Message-ID: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> Hey, I am trying to migrate a client from one database to another. Basically we designed a web application for them using PostgreSQL but we have made many changes to the design of our application since version 1. Now they want to upgrade to our new version. So basically I have to pg_dump their current data and then import it into our new schema. Now, of course I realize that there are going to be errors. But they have a lot and I mean a LOT of data. I don't want to have to sit there and watch the import go by and monitor every insert, I want to run a command and then look in a file for any errors after the import is complete. I tried this command but it didn't work: gunzip -c dataInserts.sql.gz | psql dbname -U username | grep "ERROR:*" > import_errors (obviously dbname and username have been change to protect the innocent ;)) Any help is appreciated. Thanks. -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 15:03:49 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:03:49 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <1092320646.23985.29.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <1092323029.23985.42.camel@192.168.1.80> On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 10:24, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I am trying to migrate a client from one database to another. Basically > we designed a web application for them using PostgreSQL but we have made > many changes to the design of our application since version 1. Now they > want to upgrade to our new version. So basically I have to pg_dump > their current data and then import it into our new schema. Now, of > course I realize that there are going to be errors. But they have a lot > and I mean a LOT of data. I don't want to have to sit there and watch > the import go by and monitor every insert, I want to run a command and > then look in a file for any errors after the import is complete. I > tried this command but it didn't work: > > gunzip -c dataInserts.sql.gz | psql dbname -U username | grep "ERROR:*" > > import_errors > > (obviously dbname and username have been change to protect the innocent > ;)) > > Any help is appreciated. > > Thanks. I actually found something that works. Just in case anyone comes across this themselves... zcat test.sql.gz | psql -d dbname -U username --echo-queries -f - >import_errors 2>&1 Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 15:44:50 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 11:44:50 -0400 Subject: bash question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040812154450.GA921@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Aug 11, 2004 at 12:46:54AM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > I was trying to use ${foo:-1:2} in bash but it does not work (it is > supposed to extract the last 2 chars in $foo. However ${foo:${#foo}-2:2} > works as expected. Use ${foo: -2}. Note the space, because ${foo:-xxx} has some other well defined meaning. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 16:11:36 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 12:11:36 -0400 Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: <1064.142.177.92.49.1092318235.squirrel-2RFepEojUI2DznVbVsZi4adLQS1dU2Lr@public.gmane.org> References: <1064.142.177.92.49.1092318235.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <411B96B8.40305@rogers.com> I wonder if it's possible to create a standard app that could be used every year, by reading in a new set of rules for that year's taxes. After all, if you compare one year's tax return with another, not much changes. If that were possible, then Rev Can could provide the rules that any tax app could use. phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > Actually, during the era of the Commodore PET and C64 computers, Jim Butterfield (who lives in Toronto) provided tax software on an annual basis for free. I concede in advance that it was not as sophisticated as provided by the professionals, and he may well have given it up. It was written in BASIC, of course. > > (This is simply to illustrate a law of nature: there is always a counterexample ;) > > Peter > > >>And there are some areas where one doesn't expect an open-source offering >>to appear. The classic example is tax software, which has to change every >>year, and needs concentrated expert attention on a strict schedule. >> >> Henry Spencer >> henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org >> >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 17:12:01 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:12:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: tax software (was Re:Speech on Linux...) In-Reply-To: <411B96B8.40305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <411B96B8.40305@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > I wonder if it's possible to create a standard app that could be used > every year, by reading in a new set of rules for that year's taxes. I wouldn't be at all surprised if parts of the commercial tax packages already work that way. But this doesn't really fix the problem, just moves it: now you need concentrated expert attention to revise the rule set each year. The hard part is understanding the changes to the law and their implications, not embodying that knowledge in code. > ...If that were possible, then Rev Can could provide the rules > that any tax app could use. Unfortunately, I think this amounts to asking Rev Can to provide a tax app. There's so much complexity and so little pattern in it that to do the whole thing, I think you'd need a program, not just a set of rules. I doubt you could write a rule-interpreting engine that could do the job and wasn't essentially an interpreter for a programming language. (Say you've got things running great, including the complications of self-employment... and then RevCan decides that most small businesses henceforth have to use the calendar year as their fiscal year. That actually simplifies things, but there's the problem of the transition: to avoid forcing existing small businesses to pay two years of taxes in one year -- which would wipe many of them out -- there's a complicated procedure for spreading the income of the transition partial fiscal year out over the next ten years. Try to imagine a rule engine which can cope with that and *isn't* a general-purpose interpreter. This is a real example -- that actually happened -- and this sort of weird complication gets added fairly regularly.) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 17:56:00 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:56:00 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <1092320646.23985.29.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040812175600.D84DE4017@cbbrowne.com> > Hey, > > I am trying to migrate a client from one database to another. > Basically we designed a web application for them using PostgreSQL but > we have made many changes to the design of our application since > version 1. Now they want to upgrade to our new version. So basically > I have to pg_dump their current data and then import it into our new > schema. Now, of course I realize that there are going to be errors. > But they have a lot and I mean a LOT of data. I don't want to have to > sit there and watch the import go by and monitor every insert, I want > to run a command and then look in a file for any errors after the > import is complete. I tried this command but it didn't work: > > gunzip -c dataInserts.sql.gz | psql dbname -U username | grep "ERROR:*" > > import_errors > > (obviously dbname and username have been change to protect the innocent > ;)) > > Any help is appreciated. Looks like a questionable approach to me. What I'd do (what I /have done/) is to set up a schema for the 'legacy data,' and take the following approach: 1. Extract, from the old system, the existing data, into an "extraction" schema. select [fields] into extraction.t1 from public.t1 where [probably take all the data]; -- And do this for all the tables you want to convert 2. Dump "extraction" and load it into the new system pg_dump -n extraction old_database | psql new_database 3. Set up selects to take the data from the "extraction" tables and stuff them into the new schema... select [fields] into public.t1 from extraction.t1; I actually took it some steps further, where: a) The "extraction" used joins and such to make the data look as clean as possible, getting rid of any internal pointer-like numbers... b) The "insertion" into the new system involved setting up stored procedures to create the assorted objects, so that I'd do things like: select create_domain(domain attributes) from extraction.internet_domains; select create_something_else (its attributes) from extraction.something_else; This approach has the unfortunate quality that as soon as you hit a "borked" record, it'll crash and burn. But if you can address "cleansing" the data well, it'll load it all in one fell swoop :-). And it keeps the old data handy nearby for reference, _untouched_. -- output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "cbbrowne.com") http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html (THASSERT (PLANNER RG)) -- Example of HACKER statement. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 17:57:38 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 13:57:38 -0400 Subject: Speech on Linux... In-Reply-To: <411B96B8.40305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1064.142.177.92.49.1092318235.squirrel@webmail.ee.ryerson.ca> <411B96B8.40305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040812175738.5E0224017@cbbrowne.com> > I wonder if it's possible to create a standard app that could be used > every year, by reading in a new set of rules for that year's taxes. > After all, if you compare one year's tax return with another, not much > changes. If that were possible, then Rev Can could provide the rules > that any tax app could use. Sorta like , maybehaps? -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "ntlug.org") http://cbbrowne.com/info/sgml.html "Besides a mathematical inclination, an exceptionally good mastery of one's native tongue is the most vital asset of a competent programmer." -- Edsger W.Dijkstra -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 18:13:22 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:13:22 -0400 Subject: tax software (was Re:Speech on Linux...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <411BB342.7010405@rogers.com> Henry Spencer wrote: > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > >>I wonder if it's possible to create a standard app that could be used >>every year, by reading in a new set of rules for that year's taxes. > > > I wouldn't be at all surprised if parts of the commercial tax packages > already work that way. But this doesn't really fix the problem, just > moves it: now you need concentrated expert attention to revise the rule > set each year. The hard part is understanding the changes to the law and > their implications, not embodying that knowledge in code. > > >>...If that were possible, then Rev Can could provide the rules >>that any tax app could use. > > > Unfortunately, I think this amounts to asking Rev Can to provide a tax > app. There's so much complexity and so little pattern in it that to do > the whole thing, I think you'd need a program, not just a set of rules. > I doubt you could write a rule-interpreting engine that could do the job > and wasn't essentially an interpreter for a programming language. No, not the program, just the rules for running one. As it stands now, it publishes the relevant acts for accountants and whoever else can be bothered reading them. How's that different from publishing tax rules in a "computer freindly" format, that apps could use? > > (Say you've got things running great, including the complications of > self-employment... and then RevCan decides that most small businesses > henceforth have to use the calendar year as their fiscal year. That > actually simplifies things, but there's the problem of the transition: > to avoid forcing existing small businesses to pay two years of taxes in > one year -- which would wipe many of them out -- there's a complicated > procedure for spreading the income of the transition partial fiscal year > out over the next ten years. Try to imagine a rule engine which can cope > with that and *isn't* a general-purpose interpreter. This is a real > example -- that actually happened -- and this sort of weird complication > gets added fairly regularly.) Will off the shelf tax programs handle that? I'm the first to admit that there are some things best left to an accountant, as they're too complex to be handled directly by a computer application. Don't forget, those tax programs are written for fairly common tax situations. Incidentally, my ex works for Revenue Canada, in income tax collections. She's had more than a few tales of people with some strange tax problems. Some of them require nothing less than a tax accountant and/or lawyer. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 18:33:42 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:33:42 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <1092320646.23985.29.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040812183342.GX14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 10:24:06AM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > I am trying to migrate a client from one database to another. Basically > we designed a web application for them using PostgreSQL but we have made > many changes to the design of our application since version 1. Now they > want to upgrade to our new version. So basically I have to pg_dump > their current data and then import it into our new schema. Now, of > course I realize that there are going to be errors. But they have a lot > and I mean a LOT of data. I don't want to have to sit there and watch > the import go by and monitor every insert, I want to run a command and > then look in a file for any errors after the import is complete. I > tried this command but it didn't work: > > gunzip -c dataInserts.sql.gz | psql dbname -U username | grep "ERROR:*" > > import_errors > > (obviously dbname and username have been change to protect the innocent > ;)) > > Any help is appreciated. Well not that it helps you here, but what I have done in the past on a system that had new features added fairly often with a postgresql backend was this: Have a version field in the database (in this case a table named Version with a column named Version and one entry in it being just an integer). The developers had a perl wrapper to psql which was used to make changes to the development test DB, which would log any command that caused modifications to the database (inserts, deletes, table alterations, etc) unless explicitly told not to, or could be explicitly told to log something. By having a log of all psql commands used to modify the development database along the way, with a new version stamp seperating them in the log, we could on upgrades look at the current db version, skip to that version tag in the log, and apply changes from there to the desired version, and it would automatically update the tables that way adding new fields, setting defaults, etc. It worked great, and I suspect the system is still being used. This of course only worked because I insisted we needed to have a way to upgrade the database when changes were made. I hate having to reformat data to insert it into a new database. It turned out to have been well worth the few hours of work it was to write the logging wrapper to psql. The upgrade of the database even got integrated into the postinst script of the debian package of the website, which made upgrading different client systems much simpler when they wanted new features. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 18:32:53 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:32:53 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <20040812175600.D84DE4017-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040812175600.D84DE4017@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <1092335573.23985.73.camel@192.168.1.80> On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 13:56, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I am trying to migrate a client from one database to another. > > Basically we designed a web application for them using PostgreSQL but > > we have made many changes to the design of our application since > > version 1. Now they want to upgrade to our new version. So basically > > I have to pg_dump their current data and then import it into our new > > schema. Now, of course I realize that there are going to be errors. > > But they have a lot and I mean a LOT of data. I don't want to have to > > sit there and watch the import go by and monitor every insert, I want > > to run a command and then look in a file for any errors after the > > import is complete. I tried this command but it didn't work: > > > > gunzip -c dataInserts.sql.gz | psql dbname -U username | grep "ERROR:*" > > > import_errors > > > > (obviously dbname and username have been change to protect the innocent > > ;)) > > > > Any help is appreciated. > > Looks like a questionable approach to me. > > What I'd do (what I /have done/) is to set up a schema for the 'legacy > data,' and take the following approach: > > 1. Extract, from the old system, the existing data, into an > "extraction" schema. > > select [fields] into extraction.t1 from public.t1 where [probably take > all the data]; > -- And do this for all the tables you want to convert > > 2. Dump "extraction" and load it into the new system > > pg_dump -n extraction old_database | psql new_database > > 3. Set up selects to take the data from the "extraction" tables and > stuff them into the new schema... > > select [fields] into public.t1 from extraction.t1; > > I actually took it some steps further, where: > > a) The "extraction" used joins and such to make the data look as clean > as possible, getting rid of any internal pointer-like numbers... > > b) The "insertion" into the new system involved setting up > stored procedures to create the assorted objects, so that > I'd do things like: > > select create_domain(domain attributes) > from extraction.internet_domains; > select create_something_else (its attributes) > from extraction.something_else; > > This approach has the unfortunate quality that as soon as you hit a > "borked" record, it'll crash and burn. But if you can address > "cleansing" the data well, it'll load it all in one fell swoop :-). > > And it keeps the old data handy nearby for reference, _untouched_. > -- > output = ("cbbrowne" "@" "cbbrowne.com") > http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/internet.html > (THASSERT (PLANNER RG)) > -- Example of HACKER statement. I don't understand what is wrong with my method?? I have an old db with a schema and data and a new schema with similar tables, some exactly the same and some new and some with changed field names and some data that has to remain intact and so on. So I pg_dump the data from the olddb. Then I try to import the data and put all errors into my error_file like so: $ pg_dump oldDBname -D -a -U odlDBuser | gzip -9 > dataInserts.sql.gz $ zcat dataInserts.sql.gz | psql -d dbname -U dbuser -f - 2>>import_errors After the import I check my error file and I find the error: psql::177249: ERROR: column "dvd_software_version" of relation "device_details" does not exist (this is an actual error that I have run into). I look at line 177249 to get a better look. Then I look at the new schema for device_details and see that dvd_software_version is now dvd_version. I run ALTER TABLE device_details rename column dvd_software_version TO dvd_version; on the olddb...then export the data again and the insert should work. (Or I could do a search and replace in vi to change dvd_software_version to dvd_version). I actually have many import errors and I will fix them one by one in this manor and then do the export and import once all errors are fixed. Basically, this is what I am doing right this second. I am going through the error log and seeing what errors I got and figuring out how to fix them. Then I will just run the script again. What is questionable about this?? I would really like to know. I am not saying my way is perfect, it is just this is production data and I don't want to cost my company big $$$!!! > And it keeps the old data handy nearby for reference, _untouched_. The data is always kept untouched with pg_dump. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 18:42:39 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:42:39 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <20040812183342.GX14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040812183342.GX14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1092336158.23985.80.camel@192.168.1.80> On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 14:33, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 10:24:06AM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > > I am trying to migrate a client from one database to another. Basically > > we designed a web application for them using PostgreSQL but we have made > > many changes to the design of our application since version 1. Now they > > want to upgrade to our new version. So basically I have to pg_dump > > their current data and then import it into our new schema. Now, of > > course I realize that there are going to be errors. But they have a lot > > and I mean a LOT of data. I don't want to have to sit there and watch > > the import go by and monitor every insert, I want to run a command and > > then look in a file for any errors after the import is complete. I > > tried this command but it didn't work: > > > > gunzip -c dataInserts.sql.gz | psql dbname -U username | grep "ERROR:*" > > > import_errors > > > > (obviously dbname and username have been change to protect the innocent > > ;)) > > > > Any help is appreciated. > > Well not that it helps you here, but what I have done in the past on a > system that had new features added fairly often with a postgresql > backend was this: > > Have a version field in the database (in this case a table named Version > with a column named Version and one entry in it being just an integer). > The developers had a perl wrapper to psql which was used to make changes > to the development test DB, which would log any command that caused > modifications to the database (inserts, deletes, table alterations, etc) > unless explicitly told not to, or could be explicitly told to log > something. By having a log of all psql commands used to modify the > development database along the way, with a new version stamp seperating > them in the log, we could on upgrades look at the current db version, > skip to that version tag in the log, and apply changes from there to the > desired version, and it would automatically update the tables that way > adding new fields, setting defaults, etc. It worked great, and I > suspect the system is still being used. > > This of course only worked because I insisted we needed to have a way to > upgrade the database when changes were made. I hate having to reformat > data to insert it into a new database. It turned out to have been well > worth the few hours of work it was to write the logging wrapper to psql. > The upgrade of the database even got integrated into the postinst script > of the debian package of the website, which made upgrading different > client systems much simpler when they wanted new features. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Have a version field in the database (in this case a table named Version > with a column named Version and one entry in it being just an integer). > The developers had a perl wrapper to psql which was used to make changes > to the development test DB, which would log any command that caused > modifications to the database (inserts, deletes, table alterations, etc) > unless explicitly told not to, or could be explicitly told to log > something. That is a great idea. I was relying on everyone to log all the changes themselves in a file called db_changes.....I think it is still empty from when I created it 2 years ago :). I think I might right a perl program that does this. Although, that would require them to actually send their sql to the perl program ;) Thanks for the great idea. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 18:58:08 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: tax software (was Re:Speech on Linux...) In-Reply-To: <411BB342.7010405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <411BB342.7010405@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > > ...I think you'd need a program, not just a set of rules. > > I doubt you could write a rule-interpreting engine that could do the job > > and wasn't essentially an interpreter for a programming language. > > No, not the program, just the rules for running one. As it stands now, > it publishes the relevant acts for accountants and whoever else can be > bothered reading them. How's that different from publishing tax rules > in a "computer freindly" format, that apps could use? The problem is that the rules are so complex and so unsystematic that a "computer friendly" format almost certainly would have to *be* a program. I think you're grievously underestimating the complexity of turning the current RevCan pronouncements into something that's easily analyzed and unambiguous. > > (Say you've got things running great, including the complications of > > self-employment... and then RevCan decides that most small businesses > > henceforth have to use the calendar year as their fiscal year... > > Will off the shelf tax programs handle that? Can't say for sure -- haven't used one -- but any program which can handle self-employment *must* handle this, and more people than you might think have some amount of self-employment income in addition to a job. A generally useful program can't just say "hire an accountant" when it hits anything even vaguely complicated, because there are too many such things, and too many people to whom they are relevant. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 21:54:13 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 17:54:13 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040811215207.04dd332d.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811215207.04dd332d.hgibson@eol.ca> Message-ID: <20040812175413.0b21be45.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 21:52:07 -0400 Howard Gibson disseminated the following: > Uh, I think Eric is recommending guns here. This will probably not help > you recover your data. :) LOL! Fortunately for *me*, it is not my data, but that of a friend who has now learned the 'backing up lesson' the hard way, having to decide between permanent loss of data and paying through the arse :-D -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 17:51:15 up 8 days, 17:33, 8 users, load average: 0.10, 0.09, 0.02 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There are literally several levels of SCO being wrong. And even if we were to live in that alternate universe where SCO would be right, they'd still be wrong. -- Linus Torvalds -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 12 22:27:51 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:27:51 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040811221744.B4C664076-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 11 Aug 2004 18:17:44 -0400 cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org disseminated the following: > > Before I just let my fingers do the walking, can anyone recommend a data > > recovery shop they've dealt with? I have a HD with data that it would be > > nice > > to recover, but it's not even detected by the BIOS, let alone a rescue CD or > > floppy. > > We had a talk last fall from ActionFront Data Recovery > who seemed fairly clueful. > > It's not cheap, and the results are pretty forcibly limited. Ya, I got an offlist reply about the costs involved. The owner of this drive is not going to be a happy camper. > Make sure you unplug your device ASAP, and don't plug it in again lest > you damage it further, if you're heading down this road... Thanks for the tip. I'm not into beating my head against a dead horse anyhow ;-) -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:22:45 up 8 days, 18:05, 8 users, load average: 0.17, 0.04, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "92 per cent of Iraqis regard US troops as occupiers, while 2 per cent see them as liberators, according to a Coalition Provisional Authority poll." -- Financial Times, June 17 2004 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 02:24:36 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:24:36 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <1092335573.23985.73.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040812175600.D84DE4017@cbbrowne.com> <1092335573.23985.73.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040813022436.EB74F4017@cbbrowne.com> > I don't understand what is wrong with my method?? There's nothing dramatically wrong; it's that if you can characterize the process of transforming the old data into the new form in a well-defined "phased" fashion, you can readily audit the way the changes worked, and be _very_ sure of what happened, because you can document the steps. This may not be so important with a web "message board" application where nobody much cares if a few old items get trashed. It appears that several of our national banks have gotten bitten badly of late by software changes that wound up trashing data on them; their ability to recover has depended on having well-defined transitions... There's certainly "more than one way to skin the cat;" the methodology I'm suggesting happens to be one I and my colleagues have found useful. I have done quite a lot of data conversions over the years, and this is the slickest approach I have seen... -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','acm.org'). http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sgml.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #131. "I will never place the key to a cell just out of a prisoner's reach." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 02:49:25 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 22:49:25 -0400 Subject: tax software (was Re:Speech on Linux...) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040813024925.C6A544017@cbbrowne.com> > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > > > ...I think you'd need a program, not just a set of rules. > > > I doubt you could write a rule-interpreting engine that could do the job > > > and wasn't essentially an interpreter for a programming language. > > > > No, not the program, just the rules for running one. As it stands now, > > it publishes the relevant acts for accountants and whoever else can be > > bothered reading them. How's that different from publishing tax rules > > in a "computer freindly" format, that apps could use? > > The problem is that the rules are so complex and so unsystematic that a > "computer friendly" format almost certainly would have to *be* a program. > I think you're grievously underestimating the complexity of turning the > current RevCan pronouncements into something that's easily analyzed and > unambiguous. CRA pronouncements aren't everything, either. 1. What they document is the forms that _they_ have set up as _their_ interpretation of tax law. 2. Real tax law is much messier still. It represents the combination of: a) The Income Tax Act, along with its numerous amendments over the years, as acts passed by Parliament; b) Interpretation Bulletins, written by CRA, that provide CRA's interpretation of how to handle various issues; c) Precedents set by tax cases decided by the various courts in the country. These are the "authoritative" sources for tax law, and they don't forcibly have to agree with one another. Note that the bulk of the law has to do not with determining tax rates, but with deciding how to recognize activities as being events that are either: a) Taxable transactions, under one section or another, or b) Not taxable, which might also imply things like "not deductible," as well as determining _who_ would be assessed taxes on the transaction. A good tax lawyer spends their time figuring out how particular transactions are to be taxed, which has pretty nearly nothing to do with how tax returns are prepared. The fairly enormous complexity is all about there being a whole lot of "corner cases" that someone found a loophole for that Parliament/CRA/Courts decided needed to be closed up due to some notion of "unfairness." What this implies is that typical proposals to somehow magically "simplify" tax law are pretty much doomed to failure. Those that propose them seem to fall into two categories: 1. Those that don't understand why their idea is doomed, which implies that they are in some fashion "too stupid" to deserve to set tax policy, or 2. Those that _do_ understand that what they're pretending to do won't address the real complexities, which implies that they're lying scoundrels that are _morally_ deficient and so shouldn't be "guarding any cookie jars." > > > (Say you've got things running great, including the complications of > > > self-employment... and then RevCan decides that most small businesses > > > henceforth have to use the calendar year as their fiscal year... > > > > Will off the shelf tax programs handle that? > > Can't say for sure -- haven't used one -- but any program which can > handle self-employment *must* handle this, and more people than you > might think have some amount of self-employment income in addition to > a job. Self-employment is the "big punt" where some complexity leaps in. > A generally useful program can't just say "hire an accountant" when it > hits anything even vaguely complicated, because there are too many > such things, and too many people to whom they are relevant. I set up tax forms last year in Prolog that know how to cope with, hmm, let's see... - Schedules 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11. - T1 - Ontario and Federal LSIF forms - ON428 and ON479 forms to calculate Ontario credits and taxes payable - T2038, T2204, T4s, T626, T691 (Alternative Minimum Tax). That more than covered the forms I was concerned about, with roughly 400 Prolog rules in about 100Kb/13K-lines of code. Come next year, I'll add in 2004 rates, and update it for new 2004 rules, and probably toss in a few more forms. Throwing in "self employment" income involves building an income statement, which amounts to throwing in a spreadsheet that ends with the line "Net Income" that turns into one line on the tax return. There may be a host of complexities to that, but in most ways they have relatively little to do with the complexity of a tax return. -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','cbbrowne.com'). http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/freetaxsoftware.html You don't *run* programs on Ultrix. - Mark Moraes Right, you chase them. - Rayan Zachariassen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 04:34:33 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:34:33 -0400 Subject: Call for future speakers In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1092371671.11590.79.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-08-10 at 10:40, John Vetterli wrote: > I think another possibility is for developers to give a short talk > about any projects they are currently working on. > > Good idea? Bad idea? (I might be a little biased in my opinion, but...) IMHO, I think it's a great idea: Projects are one of the arteries of the f/loss community at large - they bring people together. Mailing lists and LUGs would have to be a couple of the other arteries. - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 04:44:08 2004 From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (jim ruxton) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:44:08 -0400 Subject: linux and 1X data phones Message-ID: <1092372248.3839.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Does anyone know if there any cell phones that have 1X features that can be accessed via Linux? jim -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 12:50:51 2004 From: fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org (george fiala) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 08:50:51 -0400 Subject: tax software (was Re:Speech on Linux...) In-Reply-To: <20040813024925.C6A544017-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040813024925.C6A544017@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <1092401451.1539.14.camel@IQPartnersfiala.netscreen-5> I have been in touch with CCH.ca (they are the ones who write CANTAX) apparently they are working on an OpenSource/Linux version, but it will not be ready for this upcoming tax season. This is from the President and the dev. manager. George. On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 22:49, Christopher Browne wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > > > > ...I think you'd need a program, not just a set of rules. > > > > I doubt you could write a rule-interpreting engine that could do the job > > > > and wasn't essentially an interpreter for a programming language. > > > > > > No, not the program, just the rules for running one. As it stands now, > > > it publishes the relevant acts for accountants and whoever else can be > > > bothered reading them. How's that different from publishing tax rules > > > in a "computer freindly" format, that apps could use? > > > > The problem is that the rules are so complex and so unsystematic that a > > "computer friendly" format almost certainly would have to *be* a program. > > I think you're grievously underestimating the complexity of turning the > > current RevCan pronouncements into something that's easily analyzed and > > unambiguous. > > CRA pronouncements aren't everything, either. > > 1. What they document is the forms that _they_ have set up as _their_ > interpretation of tax law. > > 2. Real tax law is much messier still. It represents the combination > of: > > a) The Income Tax Act, along with its numerous amendments over the > years, as acts passed by Parliament; > > b) Interpretation Bulletins, written by CRA, that provide CRA's > interpretation of how to handle various issues; > > c) Precedents set by tax cases decided by the various courts in the > country. > > These are the "authoritative" sources for tax law, and they don't > forcibly have to agree with one another. > > Note that the bulk of the law has to do not with determining tax rates, > but with deciding how to recognize activities as being events that > are either: > > a) Taxable transactions, under one section or another, or > > b) Not taxable, which might also imply things like "not deductible," > > as well as determining _who_ would be assessed taxes on the transaction. > > A good tax lawyer spends their time figuring out how particular > transactions are to be taxed, which has pretty nearly nothing to do with > how tax returns are prepared. > > The fairly enormous complexity is all about there being a whole lot of > "corner cases" that someone found a loophole for that > Parliament/CRA/Courts decided needed to be closed up due to some notion > of "unfairness." > > What this implies is that typical proposals to somehow magically > "simplify" tax law are pretty much doomed to failure. Those that > propose them seem to fall into two categories: > > 1. Those that don't understand why their idea is doomed, which implies > that they are in some fashion "too stupid" to deserve to set tax > policy, or > > 2. Those that _do_ understand that what they're pretending to do won't > address the real complexities, which implies that they're lying > scoundrels that are _morally_ deficient and so shouldn't be > "guarding any cookie jars." > > > > > (Say you've got things running great, including the complications of > > > > self-employment... and then RevCan decides that most small businesses > > > > henceforth have to use the calendar year as their fiscal year... > > > > > > Will off the shelf tax programs handle that? > > > > Can't say for sure -- haven't used one -- but any program which can > > handle self-employment *must* handle this, and more people than you > > might think have some amount of self-employment income in addition to > > a job. > > Self-employment is the "big punt" where some complexity leaps in. > > > A generally useful program can't just say "hire an accountant" when it > > hits anything even vaguely complicated, because there are too many > > such things, and too many people to whom they are relevant. > > I set up tax forms last year in Prolog that know how to cope with, hmm, > let's see... > > - Schedules 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11. > - T1 > - Ontario and Federal LSIF forms > - ON428 and ON479 forms to calculate Ontario credits and taxes payable > - T2038, T2204, T4s, T626, T691 (Alternative Minimum Tax). > > That more than covered the forms I was concerned about, with roughly 400 > Prolog rules in about 100Kb/13K-lines of code. Come next year, I'll add > in 2004 rates, and update it for new 2004 rules, and probably toss in a > few more forms. > > Throwing in "self employment" income involves building an income > statement, which amounts to throwing in a spreadsheet that ends with the > line "Net Income" that turns into one line on the tax return. There may > be a host of complexities to that, but in most ways they have relatively > little to do with the complexity of a tax return. > -- > wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','cbbrowne.com'). > http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/freetaxsoftware.html > You don't *run* programs on Ultrix. > - Mark Moraes > Right, you chase them. > - Rayan Zachariassen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml G E O R G E F I A L A Director IQ Partners, Inc 99 Spadina Avenue, Suite 650 Toronto, Ontario M8V 5P3 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 14:09:44 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:09:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: tax software (was Re:Speech on Linux...) In-Reply-To: <1092401451.1539.14.camel-yg8RxoFaGjUKl6j+TCdI87580jQOvV8nOSw0YjJ/KQQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1092401451.1539.14.camel@IQPartnersfiala.netscreen-5> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, george fiala wrote: > I have been in touch with CCH.ca (they are the ones who write CANTAX) > apparently they are working on an OpenSource/Linux version... Careful here: did they say/mean "open source" or just "Linux"? A Linux version of their program (although it's praiseworthy in any case) would not necessarily be open source. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 14:14:15 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:14:15 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040813141415.GY14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Thu, Aug 12, 2004 at 06:27:51PM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Thanks for the tip. I'm not into beating my head against a dead horse > anyhow ;-) I assume you have checked with a different cable and a different ide controller? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 14:17:54 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:17:54 -0400 Subject: linux and 1X data phones In-Reply-To: <1092372248.3839.46.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1092372248.3839.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20040813141754.GZ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 12:44:08AM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > Does anyone know if there any cell phones that have 1X features that can > be accessed via Linux? You mean the ones that have an optional USB data link cable? I don't know, Having never even seen the cable needed (or I might try it just to see). Given the cost of data transfer on it though I am not likely to get the cable. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 14:30:42 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:30:42 -0400 Subject: linux and 1X data phones In-Reply-To: <20040813141754.GZ14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1092372248.3839.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20040813141754.GZ14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1092407442.4841.5.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Fri, 2004-08-13 at 10:17 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 12:44:08AM -0400, jim ruxton wrote: > > Does anyone know if there any cell phones that have 1X features that can > > be accessed via Linux? > > You mean the ones that have an optional USB data link cable? I don't > know, Having never even seen the cable needed (or I might try it just to > see). Given the cost of data transfer on it though I am not likely to > get the cable. :) Not to mention that Telus charges $100 just for the cable! Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 14:37:33 2004 From: hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Hooman Baradaran) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:37:33 -0400 Subject: linux and 1X data phones In-Reply-To: <1092372248.3839.46.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1092372248.3839.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200408131037.34174.hooman@yorku.ca> I know Fido's system (GPRS or whatever) supports Linux. It'll be commands similar to a modem. And it's much cheaper than Telus. But I personally haven't got it yet as I like Telus better for other reasons. On August 13, 2004 12:44 am, jim ruxton wrote: > Does anyone know if there any cell phones that have 1X features that can > be accessed via Linux? > jim > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Hooman Baradaran hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org www.hoomanb.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 14:47:26 2004 From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:47:26 -0400 Subject: linux and 1X data phones In-Reply-To: <200408131037.34174.hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y@public.gmane.org> References: <1092372248.3839.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200408131037.34174.hooman@yorku.ca> Message-ID: <1092408446.4841.15.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> On Fri, 2004-08-13 at 10:37 -0400, Hooman Baradaran wrote: > I know Fido's system (GPRS or whatever) supports Linux. It'll be commands > similar to a modem. And it's much cheaper than Telus. But I personally > haven't got it yet as I like Telus better for other reasons. Yes, I believe GPRS works well in Linux. http://easyconnect.linuxuser.hu/modules.php?name=index In fact, GSM phones are a way better system in general. Why North America had to divide into two systems is beyond me. Things are much simpler in Europe. Buy a phone anywhere... it works with any supplier. Too late. Stuck with Telus now. I wish phone numbers were transferable. Austin -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 15:11:36 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:11:36 -0400 Subject: linux and 1X data phones In-Reply-To: <1092408446.4841.15.camel-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org> References: <1092372248.3839.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200408131037.34174.hooman@yorku.ca> <1092408446.4841.15.camel@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> Message-ID: <20040813151136.GA14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 10:47:26AM -0400, Austin wrote: > Yes, I believe GPRS works well in Linux. > http://easyconnect.linuxuser.hu/modules.php?name=index > > In fact, GSM phones are a way better system in general. Why North > America had to divide into two systems is beyond me. Things are much > simpler in Europe. Buy a phone anywhere... it works with any supplier. Well qualcomm owns all of CDMA so they have pushed it heavily in north america where they are at home, while GSM where qualcomm only owns a few of the patents is more popular wherever companies other than qualcomm operate (as in everywhere). It isn't even as if qualcomm doesn't make royalties of GSM, they are just so greedy that they would rather people use the system that only they get royalties on and only they make chips for. Not sure how they convinced so many cell phone companies to go with a single source solution. Of course some companies run both systems (like sprint in the US) and rogers here. Fido is all GSM, and Bell is all CDMA. Not sure if Telus is all CDMA or if they have some of both. > Too late. Stuck with Telus now. I wish phone numbers were > transferable. Maybe some day they will be. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 15:21:15 2004 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 11:21:15 -0400 Subject: Call for future speakers In-Reply-To: <1092371671.11590.79.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <1092371671.11590.79.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Alright... don't laugh too loud... What about a kind of "show and tell"? Everyone who comes to the meeting gets up and talks for a minute or two about something cool they did on Linux. For example: - used laptop running Linux as a wireless gateway for Playstation2 online games - set up spam filtering/virus scanning for ISP mail - archive digital photos - convert old albums and cassette tapes to MP3 format - keep track of family names and addresses via LDAP It can also be just on your most useful applications, like: - CD burning software - email retrieval/filtering - digital photo management - information management (with a database) - audio/video It doesn't have to be very long, or detailed, 5 or 10 minutes is enough. Outline what you did, what software you used/wrote to get it to work, and if it is GPL/FOSS, where you can get a copy. The only real criteria that I think should be imposed is (a) no more than 15 minutes per person, and (b) EVERYONE must participate. What do you think? pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 16:37:31 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 12:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Meeting schedule in good shape Message-ID: We now have talks confirmed right to the end of the year and a prospective talk for January already. Details of the talks can be announced well in advance. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 22:39:37 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:39:37 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040813141415.GY14878-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040813141415.GY14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:14:15 -0400 Lennart Sorensen disseminated the following: > > Thanks for the tip. I'm not into beating my head against a dead horse > > anyhow ;-) > > I assume you have checked with a different cable and a different ide > controller? Never thought of that. What a silly bunt. However...Clickety-click, *no* Barba trick ;-) BTW, I meant to ask before, why in the name of all that is holy is it so freaking hard to disconnect power cables from HD's?! -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 18:36:43 up 9 days, 18:19, 8 users, load average: 0.00, 0.01, 0.18 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "One of the most dangerous errors of our time is the belief that human beings are uniquely violent animals, barely restrained from committing atrocities on each other by the constraints of ethics, religion, and the state." -- Eric S. Raymond -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 13 22:46:39 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, JoeHill wrote: > BTW, I meant to ask before, why in the name of all that is holy is it so > freaking hard to disconnect power cables from HD's?! Well, you don't want them to disconnect themselves by accident...! :-) That said, it's hard because they use an old, cheap connector design, which we now seem to be stuck with forever. It's all IBM's fault. :-) Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 04:41:12 2004 From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 00:41:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: old hardware up for grabs Message-ID: I suspect this one's headed for the junkpile, but just in case... I'm unloading a very old (and somewhat dusty :-)) machine, a heavy-duty system in its day but very obsolete now. You probably don't want to use this as an actual Linux box, but the case might be of some interest to somebody wanting to set up a DVD drive farm or something of that ilk... The good part is the very-heavy-duty, indeed massive, large tower case with eight 5in drive bays, six of them with front-panel access. The back has an array of PC card slots, plus a second smaller array for card-slot connector panels, plus some DB25 holes as well. It has an old 300W power supply, working fine (when last tried) except that the fan is probably getting pretty old, and a supplementary front fan. Incidentally thrown in because I can't be bothered removing them :-) are: an old 486 motherboard with a K5-133 processor (roughly a P1-75 equivalent by my timings on a few CPU-intensive things), 32MB of memory, and a pile of ISA slots (but no PCI, and essentially no built-in peripherals); an old ISA VGA video card; an ancient Mitsumi CDROM drive with its own special controller card; 3.5in floppy drive; and possibly some more ISA cards depending on what I find in housecleaning of my card collection. Probably no hard drive, although if somebody really *wants* to revive it as a system, I might be talked into finding an old IDE drive plus controller card. I've even got manuals (!) for everything. It ran Linux just fine when last booted -- even the weird old CDROM has a Linux driver -- but has been powered down for a couple of years now. I'm doing some housecleaning and decided I have no further use for it. Free to a good home (or even a harsh abusive home :-)). The only caveats are that you have to come pick it up -- it's heavy and I'm not lugging it anywhere! -- and that it could use a good vacuuming. Henry Spencer henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 16:04:45 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 12:04:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, JoeHill wrote: >> BTW, I meant to ask before, why in the name of all that is holy is it so >> freaking hard to disconnect power cables from HD's?! > > Well, you don't want them to disconnect themselves by accident...! :-) > > That said, it's hard because they use an old, cheap connector design, > which we now seem to be stuck with forever. It's all IBM's fault. :-) It happens to be a good and not so cheap connector that is widely available. Nearly all connectors of this type come in two flavors: standard (assembly connector) and easy disconnect. The difference is the height of the little claws that make removal so hard. I have never seen a IDE power connector (Amphenol something or other) of the 'easy disconnect' type but you can dyi: take a sharp carpet knife and remove about half the height of the plastic bumps on the male connector. Use this at your own risk. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 13:01:33 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:01:33 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: References: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040814090133.68498817.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Henry Spencer disseminated the following: > > BTW, I meant to ask before, why in the name of all that is holy is it so > > freaking hard to disconnect power cables from HD's?! > > Well, you don't want them to disconnect themselves by accident...! :-) > > That said, it's hard because they use an old, cheap connector design, > which we now seem to be stuck with forever. It's all IBM's fault. :-) Well, next time I take a chunk of flesh out of my thumb trying to disconnect one, I know who to sue ;-) -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 09:00:16 up 10 days, 8:43, 8 users, load average: 0.16, 0.03, 0.01 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "I believe what I said yesterday ... I don't know what I said, er, but I know what I think, and ... well, I assume it's what I said." -- Donald Rumsfeld -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 13:33:17 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:33:17 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> Good day, I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says different, I'd love to meet them. Thanks, Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 18:08:37 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:08:37 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <411E5525.3090604@rogers.com> Aaron Vegh wrote: > Good day, > I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the > Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I > want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ > to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. > > It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says > different, I'd love to meet them. > > Thanks, > Aaron. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Look at the various school calendars. Try to find the ones that teach languages, not applications. For example, a few years ago, I studied C at George Brown College and Basic, Pascal, Fortran and 6809 assembler at Ryerson. If you've already done some programming, you might be able to get by with some books. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 18:27:55 2004 From: littleguru-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (littleguru) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 14:27:55 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <411E5525.3090604-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> <411E5525.3090604@rogers.com> Message-ID: <411E59AB.80703@sympatico.ca> What about CO-OP ? or Volunteer job to start linux programming . I am interested to start learning as CO-OP , volunteer , or apprenticeship. please let me know if you know a place that I can apply. Thanks James Knott wrote: > Aaron Vegh wrote: > >> Good day, >> I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the >> Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I >> want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ >> to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. >> >> It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says >> different, I'd love to meet them. >> >> Thanks, >> Aaron. >> -- >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > Look at the various school calendars. Try to find the ones that teach > languages, not applications. For example, a few years ago, I studied C > at George Brown College and Basic, Pascal, Fortran and 6809 assembler > at Ryerson. > > If you've already done some programming, you might be able to get by > with some books. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 23:01:58 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040813141415.GY14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, JoeHill wrote: > BTW, I meant to ask before, why in the name of all that is holy is it so > freaking hard to disconnect power cables from HD's?! The funny thing is when I was at high school I worked weekends at Radio Shack (actually called Tandy in Australia). Those damn connectors were labelled "Quick Disconnects". Yeah right. The smaller ones on the floppy drives are worse. Whos stupid idea was it to put in a flap that needs to be lifted to get the power disconnected and then make it almost impossible to lift it with your fingers? Insane. They were also labelled Quick Disconnects FWIW :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 23:26:06 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:26:06 -0400 (EDT) Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: > It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says > different, I'd love to meet them. Seriously, plenty of real work happens without MS-Windows being involved at all. Because MS-Windows currently dominates the desktop many make the mistake of believing it dominates the rest of computing too. Trust me, it doesn't. If you want real throughput for your database or you want to do some number crunching, you use Unix (or a mainframe). I've consulted into financial institutions, insurance companies, debt recovery agencies, and lots of other types of organisations in different countries. Anyone who has serious data management needs is on Unix or a Mainframe (where they are often unix Unix services). Ditto for scientific apps and a lot of other functions. There are plenty of opportunities for Unix programmers and Sysadmins out there. Unix developers and sysadmins are paid more too (as shown by SAGE salary surveys and others). Linux has made huge inroads in the last couple of years as has been widely reported. It'll be a few more years yet before many of the conservative Unix admins out there will trust it for big iron jobs (I talk to them often :) There are still quite a few Unix admins who have berely touched Linux or OSS (including Free/Net/OpenBSD), amazingly. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 14 23:30:22 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:30:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 14 Aug 2004, Aaron Vegh wrote: > Good day, > I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the > Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I > want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ > to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. > > It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says > different, I'd love to meet them. Sorry to follow-up again. One other comment on the teching of Unix courses. A lot of schools seem to have fallen out of touch with the life of the industry (many still tech classful routing) and I did see Unix courses decline. They seem to be coming back though, IMHO. A friend of mine did a multi-year diaploma course which did not cover Unix at all. He volunteered at my work place at the time to get some Unix experience and ended up as a Solaris admin :) He tells me they reintroduced Unix to the course a couple of years after he finished. *sigh* :) Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 00:14:54 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 20:14:54 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040813141415.GY14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040814201454.7f7b1af2.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 19:01:58 -0400 (EDT) Robert Brockway disseminated the following: > Those damn connectors were labelled "Quick Disconnects". Yeah right. Well, with ViceGrips on the power connector and the HD braced against the bottoms of your feet maybe? -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 20:12:11 up 10 days, 19:55, 10 users, load average: 1.14, 1.31, 1.35 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws. -- Amschel Mayer Rothschild, banker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 11:23:43 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 07:23:43 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20040815111258.20B6E57206@outbox.allstream.net> You might want to check out the very popular online courses at http://www.icanprogram.com/nofeecourses.html that are offered online without fees. All they ask is that you make a Cancer research donation in memory of one of the founders. bob On August 14, 2004 09:33 am, you wrote: > Good day, > I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the > Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I > want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ > to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. > > It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says > different, I'd love to meet them. > > Thanks, > Aaron. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From penguin-b5dpCGu8vRqvf6OMzgWXFl6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 12:04:54 2004 From: penguin-b5dpCGu8vRqvf6OMzgWXFl6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (Stephen Lee) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:04:54 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <20040813022436.EB74F4017-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040813022436.EB74F4017@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:25 PM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sending errors from psql to error file > I don't understand what is wrong with my method?? There's nothing dramatically wrong; it's that if you can characterize the process of transforming the old data into the new form in a well-defined "phased" fashion, you can readily audit the way the changes worked, and be _very_ sure of what happened, because you can document the steps. This may not be so important with a web "message board" application where nobody much cares if a few old items get trashed. It appears that several of our national banks have gotten bitten badly of late by software changes that wound up trashing data on them; their ability to recover has depended on having well-defined transitions... There's certainly "more than one way to skin the cat;" the methodology I'm suggesting happens to be one I and my colleagues have found useful. I have done quite a lot of data conversions over the years, and this is the slickest approach I have seen... -- wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','acm.org'). http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sgml.html Rules of the Evil Overlord #131. "I will never place the key to a cell just out of a prisoner's reach." -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 11:46:06 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 07:46:06 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <411E59AB.80703-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <411E5525.3090604@rogers.com> <411E59AB.80703@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040815114247.795A0EB2B6@outbox.allstream.net> There are thousands of open source projects on Sourceforge.net that would welcome volunteers. I'm personally involved with 2 of those who would gladly help beginners get up to speed. https://sourceforge.net/projects/simpl https://sourceforge.net/projects/ioanywhere I think a volunteer co-op or apprenticeship program is a great idea too. It is an unfortunate statement of our times when so much of our experienced programmer skill base is unemployed or underemployed. We are in great danger of losing those skills forever unless we can find ways to transfer them to the younger generation and then find ways for that generation to become productively employed in situations where they can continue to hone and develop those skills. bob On August 14, 2004 02:27 pm, you wrote: > What about CO-OP ? or Volunteer job to start linux programming . > I am interested to start learning as CO-OP , volunteer , or apprenticeship. > please let me know if you know a place that I can apply. > > Thanks > > James Knott wrote: > > Aaron Vegh wrote: > >> Good day, > >> I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the > >> Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I > >> want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ > >> to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. > >> > >> It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says > >> different, I'd love to meet them. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Aaron. > >> -- > >> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > >> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > >> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > Look at the various school calendars. Try to find the ones that teach > > languages, not applications. For example, a few years ago, I studied C > > at George Brown College and Basic, Pascal, Fortran and 6809 assembler > > at Ryerson. > > > > If you've already done some programming, you might be able to get by > > with some books. > > > > -- > > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From penguin-b5dpCGu8vRqvf6OMzgWXFl6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 12:16:52 2004 From: penguin-b5dpCGu8vRqvf6OMzgWXFl6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org (Stephen Lee) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:16:52 -0400 Subject: Yast Online Update In-Reply-To: <20040813022436.EB74F4017-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040813022436.EB74F4017@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: I've just installed Suse 8.0 ES. Trying to use Yast Online Update (YOU) to update the system but I keep getting this dialog that asks for a "Code" and "Password". I registered with Suse and I figured that the username and password that I was given would allow me in. But it doesn't work; I keep getting a dialog that says "Initialization failed. Try again". It seems that I should even be able to leave it blank as long as I can find a suitable ftp site. But so far no success. Can anyone give me a hint here? Thanks. Stephen Lee SHG Consulting stephen-b5dpCGu8vRqvf6OMzgWXFl6hYfS7NtTn at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 12:45:26 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:45:26 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <20040815114247.795A0EB2B6-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <411E5525.3090604@rogers.com> <411E59AB.80703@sympatico.ca> <20040815114247.795A0EB2B6@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: On Aug 15, 2004, at 7:46 AM, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I think a volunteer co-op or apprenticeship program is a great idea > too. Even the volunteer idea turns out to be something of a dead end. A little over a year ago, I tried to go that route as a way of keeping sharp, doing some good at the same time, various other reasons.... I posted an offer here and got a couple of feelers that didn't turn out. The funniest reaction, though -- not connected to TLUG -- was from an HR person at a large charity who seemed very suspicious that anyone would volunteer to do IT work. When I explained that I thought volunteering was a good thing generally and that I'd like to do it in a way that actually made use of the skills I had, she stopped responding completely. So, anyone who can get through to the non-profit community with the idea that help is available, let me know how you pulled it off. > It is an unfortunate statement of our times when so much of our > experienced > programmer skill base is unemployed or underemployed. For all kinds of semi-obvious, self-involved reasons (i.e. 26 years in development), I couldn't agree more. :-) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 13:33:02 2004 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 09:33:02 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: References: <411E5525.3090604@rogers.com> <411E59AB.80703@sympatico.ca> <20040815114247.795A0EB2B6@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <20040815093302.1ec1cbb5.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 08:45:26 -0400 Phillip Mills wrote: > On Aug 15, 2004, at 7:46 AM, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > I think a volunteer co-op or apprenticeship program is a great idea > > too. > > posted an offer here and got a couple of feelers that didn't turn out. > The funniest reaction, though -- not connected to TLUG -- was from an > HR person at a large charity who seemed very suspicious that anyone > would volunteer to do IT work. When I explained that I thought > volunteering was a good thing generally and that I'd like to do it in a > way that actually made use of the skills I had, she stopped responding > completely. > > So, anyone who can get through to the non-profit community with the > idea that help is available, let me know how you pulled it off. > Well, *I* sure don't know :-) That's exactly the reaction I got, nothing but paranoia. I don't know, I've worked for some pretty nasty people in the corporate sector, but in terms of sheer petty nastiness and manipulative treachery the non-profit sector can hold it's head high :-) Errr...present company excepted & IMHO :-) I guess my answer to the problem of picking up experience was to find an idiot who managed to row out past the end of the dock before he burned his boat to the waterline. Then I took a running jump off the end of the dock and managed to cobble a raft together :-) Idiots being what they are, he succeeded in doing the same thing again, at which point I decided I'd learned enough :-) This is not the easiest way to do it, but if you can avoid assault charges and suicide you can get a lot of experience quickly. And being involved in a complete disaster early on in your career can be very useful in learning the warning signs. > > It is an unfortunate statement of our times when so much of our > > experienced > > programmer skill base is unemployed or underemployed. > > For all kinds of semi-obvious, self-involved reasons (i.e. 26 years in > development), I couldn't agree more. :-) > it *is* unfortionate. That's one of the true potentials of Open Source, the ability to pull those people into useful roles in their own community rather than lining up for a job in a call center. Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 16:28:52 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 16:28:52 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20040815162852.679fe8b2@mail.look.ca> At 09:33 AM 2004/08/14 -0400, Aaron Vegh wrote: >Good day, >I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the >Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I >want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ >to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. > >It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says >different, I'd love to meet them. > >Thanks, >Aaron. Several years ago, I took a shell programming course for UNIX, at Ryerson, in the Yonge Street and Dundas east area. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 18:03:04 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 18:03:04 Subject: You *KNOW* linux has hit the big time... In-Reply-To: <20040811224748.GA3052@m450> References: <20040811224748.GA3052@m450> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20040815180304.5e2f06c6@mail.look.ca> At 06:47 PM 2004/08/11 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: (snip) >> O E M (Original Equipment Manufacturer) software includes all >> essential components of Microsoft Retail products excluding support >> from Microsoft. Retail version comes in a fancy box, O E M does >> not. You will receive installation CDs only (no original retail >> packing). Although O E M software does not come with a box or a >> manual, it is the typical and actual software, no trial or demo >> versions. (snip) > (snip) I don't think >you'll actually get anything delivered; the spammers/scammers will go to >town on suckers' credit cards. They are selling software which is O.E.M., that is, for sale only as a promotional bonus with a computer system. Selling it in isolation is a violation of their business agreements with the various software publishing or distribution companies. The various software publishing or distribution companies can shut down their Web sites soon after the software publishing or distribution company learns of the existence of the Web site. I have no reason to believe that the Web site would fraudulently overcharge prices to your credit card. They may, in fact, be shut down before they are able to charge your card. They may be shut down after they charge your card, but before they are able to deliver anything - in which case, you can get the charges reversed by your credit card company, eventually, possibly after several months and many telephone calls to the credit card company. The software is supported only by the vendor (not the software publisher or distributor), and, in these cases, you will get absolutely no guarantee whatsoever of support from anybody in the world. You would have to rely on technical books in book stores, your co-workers, your friends, your user groups, your courses in various schools, and even hours/days/weeks of hair-pulling trial-and-error experimenting. The low prices correspond to the lowered expenses of support. These packages probably do not qualify for upgrades. They are essentially 'orphaned' by the software publishers/distributors. When you see 'free' software in a sales promotion from M.D.G. computers, for example, remember that the software publisher/distributor does not support it: - they refer you back to M.D.G. How much will M.D.G. do to support something that they gave away free, something which has shown no evidence of putting even a cent into their cash register ? Similarly, in this case, Microsoft (etc.) do not support the software. If M.D.G. were to provide the bonus software without selling a computer system, then they would be in violation just as much as the owners of that Web site. Jim McIntosh --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 00:23:16 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:23:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Call for future speakers In-Reply-To: References: <1092371671.11590.79.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, Paul Mora wrote: > The only real criteria that I think should be imposed is (a) no more > than 15 minutes per person, and (b) EVERYONE must participate. Althought I like the idea I believe many people would not turn up at a meeting if they knew they were expected to talk. Such is the fear of public speaking for many. I'd suggest the talks be optional rather than mandatory. As the talks coordinator I'd want to make sure we had 10-15 people for that meeting so would probably want word ahead of time. This number of people assumes an average of 5 minutes each . Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 00:33:11 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:33:11 -0400 Subject: Is there a KVM-type switch for speakers? Message-ID: <20040816003311.GA9917@m450> I've got two linux machines on opposite sides of the table. I've managed to make some space on the table by going to a KVM switch, so I only have one keyboard, one video display, and one mouse. But there's still two sets of speakers. I checked the local Radio Shack. They had a switch that took 3 RCA jacks in, with one output, which is not what I want. I need something that has multiple stereo-mini jacks (male) on 2-metre cables on the input side, and one stereo-mini plug (female) on the output, which a set of speakers can plug into. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 00:58:57 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 20:58:57 -0400 Subject: scp and symlinks Message-ID: <20040816005857.GB9917@m450> Now that I'm back on broadband, I've downloaded the CRUX linux ISO, and am setting up my second machine, and moving over a bunch of stuff to it. I prefer to use scp, but tar seems to be necessary to avoid certain problems. E.g. my music collection is in different directories by genre. I also want to sort it by year. To avoid duplication, I use symlinks. That's fine until I try transferring to the second machine. Assuming that directory misc/ exists on the 2nd machine... scp -r misc/music waltdnes at machine2:misc/ ...works. But misc/music/year/19??, which contain symlinks on the source machine end up containing actual files on the target machine. I blew away misc/music/ on the target machine and pushed over that one directory with... tar -cvf - music/year/ | ssh waltdnes at machine2 'tar -C misc -xvf -' ...which is uglier, but at least the symlinks came out as symlinks. If I had used this format originally, I could've pushed over the entire music directory properly in the first place. Is there a way to do it in scp that I've overlooked? -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 01:21:05 2004 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:21:05 -0400 Subject: Is there a KVM-type switch for speakers? In-Reply-To: <20040816003311.GA9917@m450> References: <20040816003311.GA9917@m450> Message-ID: Hi Walter. I know you already have a KVM switch, but they do make them with audio support; here's an example product from StarTech: pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 01:35:03 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 21:35:03 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <20040815111258.20B6E57206-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> <20040815111258.20B6E57206@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <4386c5b204081518353d2bb52c@mail.gmail.com> That's fabulous! I've signed up for their next intro course. Thanks all for your replies(esp. Marc Evelyn and fcsoft), I look forward to becoming a success at this! Cheers, Aaron. On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 07:23:43 -0400, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: > You might want to check out the very popular online courses at > > http://www.icanprogram.com/nofeecourses.html > > that are offered online without fees. All they ask is that you make a > Cancer research donation in memory of one of the founders. > > bob > > On August 14, 2004 09:33 am, you wrote: > > Good day, > > I was wondering if anyone here knows about programming courses in the > > Toronto area? And I'm not talking about VB, Visual C++, .NET stuff. I > > want to learn the stuff the hackers use -- from the shell to C to C++ > > to Python... in short, how to program in an open source environment. > > > > It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says > > different, I'd love to meet them. > > > > Thanks, > > Aaron. > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 22:52:00 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 22:52:00 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> Does anyone know of a group which provides assistance to C or C++ programmers ? I can provide some help for beginners, since I have programmed in C for 2 years, but I still have a lot to learn, including most of the ways that C++ is better than C. My business analyst on C/C++ programming contracts forbid me to use any of the features of C++ whatsoever, so my knowledge of C++ is from magazines and maybe half a dozen hours in an introductory course. I would like one which provides help in a UNIX/Linux environment, and also in a Microsoft Windows environment. If necessary, I would join two distinct groups, one which provides help in a UNIX/Linux environment, and the other in a Microsoft Windows environment. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 15 23:22:28 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:22:28 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <20040815093302.1ec1cbb5.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <411E5525.3090604@rogers.com> <411E59AB.80703@sympatico.ca> <20040815114247.795A0EB2B6@outbox.allstream.net> <20040815093302.1ec1cbb5.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20040815232228.5ed794a8@mail.look.ca> At 09:33 AM 2004/08/15 -0400, Rob Sutherland wrote: >> > It is an unfortunate statement of our times when so much of our >> > experienced >> > programmer skill base is unemployed or underemployed. >> >> For all kinds of semi-obvious, self-involved reasons (i.e. 26 years in >> development), I couldn't agree more. :-) >> > >it *is* unfortionate. That's one of the true potentials of Open Source, the >ability to pull those people into useful roles in their own community rather >than lining up for a job in a call center. I have experience in so many computer software programming technologies that I could fill several pages just listing them. Resumes cannot contain them all, because people ask that the resume be only 2 pages, including contact information, formal education, and job history. I have noticed that my lifetime savings grand total is plummetting towards zero at a rate which gives me insomnia, about to reach zero in a few weeks, and everyone tells me that I have no marketable skills. I am now begging to work 20 hours a week for $9 an hour in a call centre. Welfare won't give you a cent if you still have $500 grand total gross assets. Welfare pays only $320/month for rent, plus $200 for all other expenses combined -- food, telephone, etc. If you cannot rent something for $320/month, welfare is cut off. They say that you are abusing and defrauding the system. You get zero. Just try to find rental places for $320/month. Work on Open Source is not feasible: it pays nothing. Work in a call centre will postpone eviction from my apartment. Criticism of work in a call centre can come only from the rich ivory-tower upper class. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 03:49:56 2004 From: jim.rootham-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Rootham) Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:49:56 -0400 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: >My business analyst on C/C++ programming contracts forbid me >to use any of the features of C++ whatsoever, Why? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 08:33:34 2004 From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 16:33:34 +0800 Subject: Hiding your proxy server.. Message-ID: <200408161633.34871.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Hi, Is it possible to hide your proxy server? What I mean if someone access a site using my proxy the server who owns the site will log my proxy IP as a client, or is it possible to show a diffrent non-existent IP? TIA -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 06:00:55 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 06:00:55 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a@mail.look.ca> At 11:49 PM 2004/08/15 -0400, Jim Rootham wrote: >>My business analyst on C/C++ programming contracts forbid me >>to use any of the features of C++ whatsoever, > >Why? He never told me. Just do it his way, or I'm off the contract. Maybe he thought that I would make mistakes in using capabilities and features that I had not been using for enough time. He claimed, without a lot of support, to be a C programmer himself, and he probably knew nothing of C++. Another programmer on the project, who knew C, but not C++, later told me that he, rather than the business analyst, had actually been the author of all the C programmes that the business analyst claimed as his personal work. Maybe the business analyst wanted to make sure that I was dispensible. The other programmer did not know C++. I could guess, but he was a person who may not have been necessarily exactly what he would superficially appear to be, and any explanation that he might give would not necessarily be the primary reason, though it would seem plausible at first. --- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 11:16:51 2004 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:16:51 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20040815232228.5ed794a8-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <411E5525.3090604@rogers.com> <411E59AB.80703@sympatico.ca> <20040815114247.795A0EB2B6@outbox.allstream.net> <3.0.6.16.20040815232228.5ed794a8@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20040816071651.1ec7abc3.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:22:28 James McIntosh wrote: > > Work on Open Source is not feasible: it pays nothing. > > Work in a call centre will postpone eviction from my apartment. > > Criticism of work in a call centre can come only from the rich ivory-tower > upper class. You are incorrect in 4 points.... First, I was not criticising the need to work and the acceptance of grim reality. There *are* worse alternatives than working in a call center, but there are better as well. To hang in until you find them, yeah, you have to do it. I've worked in a call center and it sucks and it's a waste of talent. Second, yes, you can make money working on OS, I'm doing it right now, mainly by theming and customizing packages and training rather than working directly on package development, which is what I think you mean. Third, anyone can criticize anything, I mean, just read this list :-) Also, even if I *was* a member of the 'rich ivory-tower upper class' I might still be right :-) Fourth, I've also been told I had no marketable skills, in spite of a fairly long resume. What I discovered was that I had no marketing skills and actually no market - at that time. Well, this seems like a good place to end this thread... Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 11:49:30 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 07:49:30 -0400 Subject: system backup Message-ID: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> I will soon be sending my Dell laptop in for service and figure that I should send it in with WinXP only installed for the sake of my warranty. My machine is currently a full linux box. Is backing it up as simple as tar cf dell.tar /*? and reinstalling simple as fdisking, reinstalling grub, and then untaring? If not, what should I do? And if so, how can I create my tar file on a remote drive since I dont have enough space on the local drive to allow a complete copy? Noah -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 13:32:52 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:32:52 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: References: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040816133252.GA12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 13, 2004 at 06:46:39PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote: > On Fri, 13 Aug 2004, JoeHill wrote: > > BTW, I meant to ask before, why in the name of all that is holy is it so > > freaking hard to disconnect power cables from HD's?! > > Well, you don't want them to disconnect themselves by accident...! :-) > > That said, it's hard because they use an old, cheap connector design, > which we now seem to be stuck with forever. It's all IBM's fault. :-) At least SATA doesn't use them anymore. Yay! The new SATA connectors have different pin lengths to allow for hotpluging. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 13:34:03 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:34:03 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040814090133.68498817.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040814090133.68498817.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040816133403.GB12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 09:01:33AM -0400, JoeHill wrote: > Well, next time I take a chunk of flesh out of my thumb trying to disconnect > one, I know who to sue ;-) Why would you have a case that could do that to your fingers? Mine certainly doesn't have any sharp edges inside. I worry about breaking the connector sometimes, but not my fingers. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 13:38:35 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:38:35 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040813141415.GY14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040816133835.GC12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 07:01:58PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > The funny thing is when I was at high school I worked weekends at Radio > Shack (actually called Tandy in Australia). Those damn connectors were > labelled "Quick Disconnects". Yeah right. > > The smaller ones on the floppy drives are worse. Whos stupid idea was it > to put in a flap that needs to be lifted to get the power disconnected and > then make it almost impossible to lift it with your fingers? Insane. > They were also labelled Quick Disconnects FWIW :) Quick yes, easy no. I think anything that doesn't involve screws is considered a quick disconnect. If you could get a good grip on it, and lift the tab, it would be very quick to disconnect. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 13:45:00 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:45:00 -0400 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20040816134500.GD12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 06:00:55AM +0000, James McIntosh wrote: > At 11:49 PM 2004/08/15 -0400, Jim Rootham wrote: > >>My business analyst on C/C++ programming contracts forbid me > >>to use any of the features of C++ whatsoever, > > > >Why? > > He never told me. > > Just do it his way, or I'm off the contract. > > Maybe he thought that I would make mistakes in using capabilities and > features that I had not been using for enough time. > > He claimed, without a lot of support, to be a C programmer himself, and he > probably knew nothing of C++. Another programmer on the project, who knew > C, but not C++, later told me that he, rather than the business analyst, > had actually been the author of all the C programmes that the business > analyst claimed as his personal work. Maybe the business analyst wanted to > make sure that I was dispensible. The other programmer did not know C++. > > I could guess, but he was a person who may not have been necessarily > exactly what he would superficially appear to be, and any explanation that > he might give would not necessarily be the primary reason, though it would > seem plausible at first. Many people write lousy code, and C++ is certainly even better at letting you write crappy code (just look at operator overloading. Useful feature if done right, complete mess if done wrong, and most ways are wrong.) The object oriented features are perfectly nice when used properly, while some people don't have a clue how to properly use objects, and make a mess. At least with C about the worst you can normally do is name your variables wrong, use too many defines, mess up your pointers, and I suppose fail to use functions properly. Of course most C++ compilers I have seen also tend to generate much bigger slower code than the equivalant C compiler. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 13:47:02 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:47:02 -0400 Subject: scp and symlinks In-Reply-To: <20040816005857.GB9917@m450> References: <20040816005857.GB9917@m450> Message-ID: <20040816134702.GE12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Sun, Aug 15, 2004 at 08:58:57PM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > Now that I'm back on broadband, I've downloaded the CRUX linux ISO, > and am setting up my second machine, and moving over a bunch of stuff to > it. I prefer to use scp, but tar seems to be necessary to avoid certain > problems. E.g. my music collection is in different directories by > genre. I also want to sort it by year. To avoid duplication, I use > symlinks. That's fine until I try transferring to the second machine. > Assuming that directory misc/ exists on the 2nd machine... > > scp -r misc/music waltdnes at machine2:misc/ > > ...works. But misc/music/year/19??, which contain symlinks on the > source machine end up containing actual files on the target machine. > I blew away misc/music/ on the target machine and pushed over that > one directory with... > > tar -cvf - music/year/ | ssh waltdnes at machine2 'tar -C misc -xvf -' > > ...which is uglier, but at least the symlinks came out as symlinks. If > I had used this format originally, I could've pushed over the entire > music directory properly in the first place. Is there a way to do it in > scp that I've overlooked? There is rsync over ssh, which is much faster at file transfers than scp, and handles symlinks beautifully, and only copies what is not already there. rsync -a source host:destination should do it in general. --progress, -v, --partial, --delete, and such are sometimes useful. For bidirectional transfer unison does an even better job. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 13:52:09 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:52:09 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040816114930.GP576-y6Pr2RmEDtOJK1hZEW34O3gSJqDPrsil@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> Message-ID: <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 07:49:30AM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: > I will soon be sending my Dell laptop in for service and figure that I > should send it in with WinXP only installed for the sake of my warranty. > My machine is currently a full linux box. Is backing it up as simple as > tar cf dell.tar /*? > > and reinstalling simple as fdisking, reinstalling grub, and then > untaring? > > If not, what should I do? And if so, how can I create my tar file on a > remote drive since I dont have enough space on the local drive to allow > a complete copy? You should tell tar NOT to decend other mounted filesystems (like /proc for example) to avoid a mess. You should tell it to exclude itself, unless you are already putting the tar file on a different filesystem. You can pipe tar over ssh to a file elsewhere. ie: tar -czlf - /* | ssh user at otherhost 'cat > /path/dell.tgz' Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 14:03:04 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:03:04 -0400 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: On Aug 16, 2004, at 6:00 AM, James McIntosh wrote: > He claimed, without a lot of support, to be a C programmer himself, > and he > probably knew nothing of C++. That's a common problem, sometimes based on logic and sometimes on paranoia. Setting a fairly low standard isn't a terrible idea in an environment where a) there's going to be a lot of turnover, and b) you aren't in a position to hire (or train) for excellence. (Well, yes it is a terrible idea, but within that context there may not be any better ones.) OTOH, there are people who think the definition of 'too complicated' is 'that which they personally don't understand'. When I started programming it seemed that every employer was a 'C shop' or a 'Fortran shop' or a 'Cobol shop' and only developed with a restricted set of tools. It's been almost 20 years since I've encountered a place like that. I thought that selecting the best tool for the job at hand had become universal, but maybe not. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 14:06:43 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:06:43 -0400 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <80C0EC1D-EF8D-11D8-95CC-00050249A5C8@istop.com> On Aug 15, 2004, at 10:52 PM, James McIntosh wrote: > Does anyone know of a group which provides assistance > to C or C++ programmers ? I'm wondering what you mean by 'group'. Are you looking for a mailing list, interactive web site, newsgroup, physical get-togethers...? Certainly some of those exist -- newsgroups, at least. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 14:16:35 2004 From: jason-xgs8i/e9EeWTtA8H5PvdGCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:16:35 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040816114930.GP576-y6Pr2RmEDtOJK1hZEW34O3gSJqDPrsil@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> Message-ID: <4120C1C3.5030508@detachednetworks.ca> Noah John Gellner wrote: >I will soon be sending my Dell laptop in for service and figure that I >should send it in with WinXP only installed for the sake of my warranty. >My machine is currently a full linux box. Is backing it up as simple as >tar cf dell.tar /*? > >and reinstalling simple as fdisking, reinstalling grub, and then >untaring? > >If not, what should I do? And if so, how can I create my tar file on a >remote drive since I dont have enough space on the local drive to allow >a complete copy? > >Noah > > Use mondo rescue http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/about/about.html 1 - Use it to make a bootable recovery disk(s) 2 - test the disk(s) 3 - install xp 4 - get laptop back, boot from cd, select the "nuke" option 5 - all partitions, data, are restored to the backed up state. 6 - you also may selectivly restore partitions and individual files if ever need be this is one of my backup scripts, it will drop the .iso files in the /backups directory, and exclude the /backups directory from being backed up : uncomment the mount & unmonut commands and configure for your system if your /backups directory is on a removable drive. backuplocal.sh #!/bin/sh # mount the /backups directory # mount /dev/hdb1 /backups #copy old backups to alternate names mv /backups/1.iso /backups/1.iso.old mv /backups/2.iso /backups/2.iso/old # Start mondoarchive mondoarchive -Oi -d /backups -E /backups -F #unmount the /backups directory #umount /dev/hdb1 hope this helps -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 14:56:57 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 10:56:57 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204081518353d2bb52c-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <4386c5b204081406333f71303c@mail.gmail.com> <20040815111258.20B6E57206@outbox.allstream.net> <4386c5b204081518353d2bb52c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1092668217.26359.4.camel@192.168.1.80> On Sun, 2004-08-15 at 21:35, Aaron Vegh wrote: > That's fabulous! I've signed up for their next intro course. Thanks > all for your replies(esp. Marc Evelyn and fcsoft), I look forward to > becoming a success at this! > > Cheers, > Aaron. Maybe you can let me know how the course works out. I want to get into some open source development myself. Although, right now I am busy upgrading my current skills because they are the ones that pay the bills :). > > It's a Windows world out there, and if you know anyone that says > > different, I'd love to meet them. > > Seriously, plenty of real work happens without MS-Windows being involved > at all. Everything that we do is all open source (Linux,PostgreSQL,Apache,mod_perl,perl,freeBSD etc). So I agree that there is plenty of open source projects being used in the business world. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 15:00:07 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 11:00:07 -0400 Subject: Sending errors from psql to error file In-Reply-To: <20040813022436.EB74F4017-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1092320646.23985.29.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040812175600.D84DE4017@cbbrowne.com> <1092335573.23985.73.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040813022436.EB74F4017@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <1092668406.26359.8.camel@192.168.1.80> On Thu, 2004-08-12 at 22:24, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > I don't understand what is wrong with my method?? > > There's nothing dramatically wrong; it's that if you can characterize > the process of transforming the old data into the new form in a > well-defined "phased" fashion, you can readily audit the way the changes > worked, and be _very_ sure of what happened, because you can document > the steps. > > This may not be so important with a web "message board" application > where nobody much cares if a few old items get trashed. > > It appears that several of our national banks have gotten bitten badly > of late by software changes that wound up trashing data on them; their > ability to recover has depended on having well-defined transitions... > > There's certainly "more than one way to skin the cat;" the methodology > I'm suggesting happens to be one I and my colleagues have found useful. > I have done quite a lot of data conversions over the years, and this is > the slickest approach I have seen... Thanks for the input. You just scared me there when you referred to my method as 'questionable'. I think I will stick to my method though, since I feel it is the best way (even though it may be slow) but mostly since I am comfortable with it. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 16:28:47 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:28:47 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040816133835.GC12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811163030.4652f504.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040811221744.B4C664076@cbbrowne.com> <20040812182751.717d0f03.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040813141415.GY14878@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040816133835.GC12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040816162847.GA29125@lupus.perlwolf.com> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 09:38:35AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Sat, Aug 14, 2004 at 07:01:58PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > > The funny thing is when I was at high school I worked weekends at Radio > > Shack (actually called Tandy in Australia). Those damn connectors were > > labelled "Quick Disconnects". Yeah right. > > > > The smaller ones on the floppy drives are worse. Whos stupid idea was it > > to put in a flap that needs to be lifted to get the power disconnected and > > then make it almost impossible to lift it with your fingers? Insane. > > They were also labelled Quick Disconnects FWIW :) > > Quick yes, easy no. I think anything that doesn't involve screws is > considered a quick disconnect. If you could get a good grip on it, and > lift the tab, it would be very quick to disconnect. :) Speaking of easy and screw connections... My pet peeve is the simple convenient screw-on co-ax connectors used for TV and cable signals. Just about every TV, VCR, or whatever that uses this has the receptacle recessed inside a sunken area and the surrounding border makes it impossible to turn the connector to screw it in or out with anything more than your fingernails for a tiny fraction of a rotation. -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 16:23:13 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 12:23:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040816135209.GF12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > You should tell tar NOT to decend other mounted filesystems (like /proc > for example) to avoid a mess. You should tell it to exclude itself, > unless you are already putting the tar file on a different filesystem. Definitely. Here are the filesystems I normally exclude: /cdrom /floppy /mnt /proc /tmp /var/tmp /backup /backup2 /old Some of those are particular to certain systems and some people use /mnt/cdrom instead of /cdrom. YMMV. Generally I'd put the tar file on /backup or pipe it over ssh to another box. The tool xfsdump (recommended by SGI for backups of their filesystem) is smart enough to not backup its own dump file. All of the other dumps I've used have also been smart enough to avoid backing up their own dump files. > You can pipe tar over ssh to a file elsewhere. ie: > > tar -czlf - /* | ssh user at otherhost 'cat > /path/dell.tgz' Yeah, what Lennart said :) If you can use j instead of z to use bzip2. This produces a .tar.bz file. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 18:28:56 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 14:28:56 -0400 Subject: Data Recovery In-Reply-To: <20040816133403.GB12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040813183937.5399ca65.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040814090133.68498817.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20040816133403.GB12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040816142856.749966f4.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004 09:34:03 -0400 Lennart Sorensen disseminated the following: > > Well, next time I take a chunk of flesh out of my thumb trying to disconnect > > one, I know who to sue ;-) > > Why would you have a case that could do that to your fingers? Mine > certainly doesn't have any sharp edges inside. I worry about breaking > the connector sometimes, but not my fingers. I was thinking of those 'grips' on each side of the power connector. They *do* allow one to get a good grip on the connector, however they are rather small with sharp edges. I've left some pretty good 'dents' in my thumb and fingers from those on occasion. -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 14:23:31 up 12 days, 14:06, 10 users, load average: 0.14, 0.10, 0.03 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ "Behind every great fortune is a crime." -- Balzac -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 19:06:55 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:06:55 -0400 Subject: Hiding your proxy server.. In-Reply-To: <200408161633.34871.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200408161633.34871.jerome@gmanmi.tv> Message-ID: <20040816190655.GY28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 04:33:34PM +0800, JM wrote: > Hi, > Is it possible to hide your proxy server? What I mean if someone access a > site using my proxy the server who owns the site will log my proxy IP as a > client, or is it possible to show a diffrent non-existent IP? In order to get any informtaion back from the webserver, the proxy server must supply its own IP address. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 19:10:29 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:10:29 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040816191029.GZ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 12:23:13PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > > > You can pipe tar over ssh to a file elsewhere. ie: > > > > tar -czlf - /* | ssh user at otherhost 'cat > /path/dell.tgz' > > Yeah, what Lennart said :) If you can use j instead of z to use bzip2. > This produces a .tar.bz file. I think that's tar.bz2, but yeah. It gets better compression ratios. You might also want to use p, since that will preserve permissions (a VERY good thing for backups of a whole machine!). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 19:13:28 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:13:28 -0400 Subject: Hiding your proxy server.. In-Reply-To: <20040816190655.GY28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <200408161633.34871.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20040816190655.GY28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <41210758.6050608@istop.com> Taavi Burns wrote: > On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 04:33:34PM +0800, JM wrote: > >>Hi, >> Is it possible to hide your proxy server? What I mean if someone access a >>site using my proxy the server who owns the site will log my proxy IP as a >>client, or is it possible to show a diffrent non-existent IP? > > > In order to get any informtaion back from the webserver, the proxy server > must supply its own IP address. Apache proxy server is easiely configurable. It does send its own IP, not IP of the user. I used apache running at home to access certain discussion forums when I was at work, to avoid leaving there IP address from my work and possible problems because of that. The question itself is a bit naive. Of course, it is possible to have a proxy server that would do anything. A simplest one would just forward request and send it back, changing any header information, and could be written relatively easy in Perl. It is possible that such a perl proxy server does exist already. In some sense, sending e-mail message from a web page by filling the form is like using a proxy server. In this case an HTTP request is converted to SMTP one. zb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 19:17:27 2004 From: zkoziol-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Zbigniew Koziol) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:17:27 -0400 Subject: Hiding your proxy server.. In-Reply-To: <41210758.6050608-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200408161633.34871.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20040816190655.GY28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <41210758.6050608@istop.com> Message-ID: <41210847.8020004@istop.com> OK, one more time I was a bit wrong. The reply from Taavi Burns was correct. The original message was in fact about spoofing of IP. I know that it is possible to do that but I do not know is it practicaly easy to do it in real life. zb. Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > Taavi Burns wrote: > >> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 04:33:34PM +0800, JM wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> Is it possible to hide your proxy server? What I mean if someone >>> access a site using my proxy the server who owns the site will log my >>> proxy IP as a client, or is it possible to show a diffrent >>> non-existent IP? >> >> >> >> In order to get any informtaion back from the webserver, the proxy server >> must supply its own IP address. > > > Apache proxy server is easiely configurable. It does send its own IP, > not IP of the user. I used apache running at home to access certain > discussion forums when I was at work, to avoid leaving there IP address > from my work and possible problems because of that. > > The question itself is a bit naive. Of course, it is possible to have a > proxy server that would do anything. A simplest one would just forward > request and send it back, changing any header information, and could be > written relatively easy in Perl. It is possible that such a perl proxy > server does exist already. > > In some sense, sending e-mail message from a web page by filling the > form is like using a proxy server. In this case an HTTP request is > converted to SMTP one. > > zb. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 19:33:48 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:33:48 -0400 Subject: Hiding your proxy server.. In-Reply-To: <41210847.8020004-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <200408161633.34871.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <20040816190655.GY28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <41210758.6050608@istop.com> <41210847.8020004@istop.com> Message-ID: <20040816193348.GA28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 03:17:27PM -0400, Zbigniew Koziol wrote: > > OK, one more time I was a bit wrong. The reply from Taavi Burns was > correct. The original message was in fact about spoofing of IP. I know > that it is possible to do that but I do not know is it practicaly easy > to do it in real life. If you're on a LAN, then you can spoof and get away with it, by listenting for the "spoofed" address' packets. On the big wide Internet, though, any spoofed packet will end up going somewhere else, so you'll never get the response. This can be OK for some uses of spoofing, including sending "bad" packets to a server (ping of death style, etc) or getting the target to respond to the spoofed "from" IP address (indirect DoS?). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 16 19:50:54 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 15:50:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040816191029.GZ28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040816191029.GZ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 12:23:13PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: >> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >>> You can pipe tar over ssh to a file elsewhere. ie: >>> >>> tar -czlf - /* | ssh user at otherhost 'cat > /path/dell.tgz' >> >> Yeah, what Lennart said :) If you can use j instead of z to use bzip2. >> This produces a .tar.bz file. > > I think that's tar.bz2, but yeah. It gets better compression ratios. It's whatever you call it; tar.bz2 is usual, but I have also seen .tbz2. You could call it .tarnish if you liked. > You might also want to use p, since that will preserve permissions (a VERY good > thing for backups of a whole machine!). Permissions are always preserved; the -p option preserves them on extraction. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 02:35:17 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040816135209.GF12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 07:49:30AM -0400, Noah John Gellner wrote: >> I will soon be sending my Dell laptop in for service and figure that I >> should send it in with WinXP only installed for the sake of my warranty. >> My machine is currently a full linux box. Is backing it up as simple as >> tar cf dell.tar /*? >> >> and reinstalling simple as fdisking, reinstalling grub, and then >> untaring? >> >> If not, what should I do? And if so, how can I create my tar file on a >> remote drive since I dont have enough space on the local drive to allow >> a complete copy? > > You should tell tar NOT to decend other mounted filesystems (like /proc > for example) to avoid a mess. You should tell it to exclude itself, > unless you are already putting the tar file on a different filesystem. > > You can pipe tar over ssh to a file elsewhere. ie: > > tar -czlf - /* | ssh user at otherhost 'cat > /path/dell.tgz' Normally you want to do something like that using cpio, and not tar. You can prepare a filelist using find / -prune /dev -a etc etc to remove unpalatable things from the archive. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 02:59:06 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 22:59:06 -0400 Subject: You *KNOW* linux has hit the big time... In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20040815180304.5e2f06c6-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040811224748.GA3052@m450> <3.0.6.16.20040815180304.5e2f06c6@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20040817025803.GA11715@m450> On Sun, Aug 15, 2004 at 06:03:04PM +0000, James McIntosh wrote > At 06:47 PM 2004/08/11 -0400, Walter Dnes wrote: > > (snip) I don't think you'll actually get anything delivered; the > > spammers/scammers will go to town on suckers' credit cards. > > They are selling software which is O.E.M., that is, for sale only as > a promotional bonus with a computer system. Selling it in isolation > is a violation of their business agreements with the various software > publishing or distribution companies. > > The various software publishing or distribution companies can > shut down their Web sites soon after the software publishing or > distribution company learns of the existence of the Web site. > > I have no reason to believe that the Web site would fraudulently > overcharge prices to your credit card. You have too much faith in human beings. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I had originally snipped the URL and the Windows-software portion of the spam, in order to keep the email short, and on-topic in this list. Here is the full info, so you can make an informed decision. The URL is http://www.lookoo.biz and the Windows software included the likes of... Adobe Photoshop CS V 8.0 PC Adobe Pagemaker V 7.0 PC Adobe Illustrator CS V 11.0 PC Microsoft SQL Server 2000 Microsoft Office XP Professional Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional Symantec Norton Antivirus 2004 Professional So you have... - a spam sent from a dynamic IP address in Germany - for a domain in the "biz" TLD - with a website hosted in China - said website has absolutely no indication "about us" as to where the company is physically located - the whois gives a registrant in Thailand - the registrant uses a Yahoo.com email address. It is against Yahoo's AUP to use their accounts for business - advertising "New O E M Software" (Redhat Linux 9) which is so old that it is no longer supported - Symantec Norton Antivirus, yes. Windows 2K Pro and Office Pro, maybe. But I don't *REALLY* believe that there are "OEM versions" of Photoshop, Pagemaker, Illustrator, and MS SQL Server sold with new computers. The whole thing screams *SCAM*. Given how much they're obfuscating and outright lying, I do *NOT* want to trust them with my credit card number. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 03:10:03 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes) Date: Mon, 16 Aug 2004 23:10:03 -0400 Subject: scp and symlinks In-Reply-To: <20040816134702.GE12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816005857.GB9917@m450> <20040816134702.GE12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040817031003.GB11715@m450> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 09:47:02AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote > There is rsync over ssh, which is much faster at file transfers than > scp, and handles symlinks beautifully, and only copies what is not > already there. rsync -a source host:destination should do it in > general. --progress, -v, --partial, --delete, and such are sometimes > useful. For bidirectional transfer unison does an even better job. Thanks. I'll investigate rsync further. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pegasoft-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 11:02:07 2004 From: pegasoft-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (dan braun) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 07:02:07 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040816114930.GP576-y6Pr2RmEDtOJK1hZEW34O3gSJqDPrsil@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> Message-ID: <20040817110409.B22CB5E29@fep1.cogeco.net> Hi there, I know this is not what you're looking for, but here is goes... My advice would be get/buy another laptop hard drive (you could prolly use a bigger one now anyways...) and ghost the current drive image onto the new drive. Then install xp on the old drive, and send it back to dell... Just my two cents... Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Noah John Gellner Sent: August 16, 2004 07:50 To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: system backup I will soon be sending my Dell laptop in for service and figure that I should send it in with WinXP only installed for the sake of my warranty. My machine is currently a full linux box. Is backing it up as simple as tar cf dell.tar /*? and reinstalling simple as fdisking, reinstalling grub, and then untaring? If not, what should I do? And if so, how can I create my tar file on a remote drive since I dont have enough space on the local drive to allow a complete copy? Noah -- Even Buddha punished evil - "Master Killer" -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 14:20:43 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:20:43 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040816191029.GZ28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040816191029.GZ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040817142043.GG12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 03:10:29PM -0400, Taavi Burns wrote: > I think that's tar.bz2, but yeah. It gets better compression ratios. > > You might also want to use p, since that will preserve permissions > (a VERY good thing for backups of a whole machine!). That is the default for root user as far as I know. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 14:23:37 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 10:23:37 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040817142337.GH12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 10:35:17PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Normally you want to do something like that using cpio, and not tar. You > can prepare a filelist using find / -prune /dev -a etc etc to remove > unpalatable things from the archive. Not if it's a tar file you are trying to create. I use afio for backups, but I never have understood the point of cpio. What does it do that rsync doesn't do for me? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 16:01:22 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 12:01:22 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040817142337.GH12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040817142337.GH12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040817160122.76DE24635@cbbrowne.com> > On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 10:35:17PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > > Normally you want to do something like that using cpio, and not tar. You > > can prepare a filelist using find / -prune /dev -a etc etc to remove > > unpalatable things from the archive. > > Not if it's a tar file you are trying to create. > > I use afio for backups, but I never have understood the point of cpio. > What does it do that rsync doesn't do for me? The point of cpio isn't as an alternative to rsync, but as an alternative to tar. The fact that it doesn't bother trying to manage the filtering of file names, but leaves that to your other filters, means that it has somewhat more of the "Unix nature" than tar, which tends to include the kitchen sink and more. After all, tar has been augmented to include: - Considerably sophisticated "file selection"; - Compression (often both gzip and bzip2) cpio simply leaves that to other tools. -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "cbbrowne.com") http://cbbrowne.com/info/backup.html First Rule of Computer Security - Only forbid that which can be made impossible. - Facilitate the possible. - Have the wisdom to explain the difference. -- Mark Miller -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 18:18:36 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:18:36 -0400 Subject: JOB: hardware geek to build/fix a couple of boxes Message-ID: <41224BFC.9030001@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I've got a couple of boxes at home which aren't quite built. I'd like to pay someone to get them finished off since I haven't been able to find the time to do it myself. I'm looking for someone who's built a few boxes before. The goal is to make them nice and quiet while retaining reasonable performance and not messing with reliability. I'd rather give my money to a college kid than Canada Computers and I expect I'll get better quality work this way anyway. If you're interested, give me a shout off list. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBIkv2gfzn5SevSpoRAmlpAJ0fcYK8DGfPUCFW6nndXK5E9EmoaACgzkLG H4kdDhc7r5iopfprDGOPqvA= =dxbT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ahammond.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 533 bytes Desc: not available URL: From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 18:31:59 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:31:59 -0400 Subject: JOB: hardware geek to build/fix a couple of boxes In-Reply-To: <41224BFC.9030001-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw@public.gmane.org> References: <41224BFC.9030001@ca.afilias.info> Message-ID: <20040817183159.GA1757@node1.opengeometry.net> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 02:18:36PM -0400, Andrew Hammond wrote: > I've got a couple of boxes at home which aren't quite built. I'd like > to pay someone to get them finished off since I haven't been able to > find the time to do it myself. I'm looking for someone who's built a > few boxes before. The goal is to make them nice and quiet while > retaining reasonable performance and not messing with reliability. > > I'd rather give my money to a college kid than Canada Computers and I > expect I'll get better quality work this way anyway. If you're > interested, give me a shout off list. What do you mean "don't have time" ?! Sleep 1 hour less each day, and at the end of week, you'll have 7 hours to kill. :-) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 17 18:51:03 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:51:03 -0400 Subject: XML + Bash Message-ID: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> Hi all, After looking at Expat XML parser (www.libexpat.org), I've decided to patch a simple interface to Bash shell. Mainly, so that Gawk can't brag about it having an interface. :-) In C code, you would register callback functions, and Expat will call them as it encounters various XML components. So, I made it similar in shell. That is, you specify shell functions/commands to be called. You still have to do some bookkeeping, but I think it's easier in shell. Of course, you can do other things in C which you can't do in shell. Ref: http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ -- general link or http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/index.html#xml -- XML specific help xml For example, xml -s echo "text" --> tag a 11 where '-s' -- registers 'echo' as callback function, and it will be called with element tag and its attribute names/values on command-line, ie. echo 'tag' 'a' '11' At the moment, there are 7 callbacks you can specify: - element start/end, - character data - processing instruction - comment - namespace start/end Any feedback about userability or usage problem are most appreciated. Enjoy! -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 02:51:17 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 22:51:17 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array Message-ID: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> Hi all, I have an array of interger values in perl (i386 Linux 2.6 - FC2). Is there an easy way that anyone knows to pull those values out from smallest value to largest (or vice versa)? Thanks! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 03:02:37 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:02:37 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <4122C425.9000702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4122C6CD.50809@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 See the sort() function: Basic usage: @new_array = sort @array Madison Kelly wrote: | Hi all, | | I have an array of interger values in perl (i386 Linux 2.6 - FC2). Is | there an easy way that anyone knows to pull those values out from | smallest value to largest (or vice versa)? | | Thanks! | | Madison | -- | The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org | TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns | How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBIsbMRreNkzrRRLQRAjblAJ4zJJ6ASskiqTc56NI+Mz7t7aWBYACeLckm TV51rmB4RuUkmOxvn0vR8eY= =d6qN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 03:06:36 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:06:36 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <4122C425.9000702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1092798394.1419.1424.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 22:51, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I have an array of interger values in perl (i386 Linux 2.6 - FC2). Is > there an easy way that anyone knows to pull those values out from > smallest value to largest (or vice versa)? > > Thanks! How many dimensions are in the array? Single-dimensional arrays can be done quickly with sort (works with floats as well) Eg. my @ints = qw(3 8 4 7 5 3 5 1); my @sorted_ints = sort(@ints); foreach my $num (@sorted_ints) { print "$num\n"; } Hope it helps. - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 03:10:24 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:10:24 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <4122C425.9000702-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040818031024.GA18604@seahorse> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 10:51:17PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > I have an array of interger values in perl (i386 Linux 2.6 - FC2). Is > there an easy way that anyone knows to pull those values out from > smallest value to largest (or vice versa)? Stolen from the Perl Cookbook (Recipe 4.14): @sorted = sort { $a <=> $b } @unsorted; Swap $a and $b if you want largest to smallest. Cheers, Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 03:44:10 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:44:10 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <1092798394.1419.1424.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> <1092798394.1419.1424.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4122D08A.2020302@alteeve.com> Scott Elcomb wrote: > On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 22:51, Madison Kelly wrote: > >>Hi all, >> >> I have an array of interger values in perl (i386 Linux 2.6 - FC2). Is >>there an easy way that anyone knows to pull those values out from >>smallest value to largest (or vice versa)? >> >> Thanks! > > > How many dimensions are in the array? > > Single-dimensional arrays can be done quickly with sort (works with > floats as well) > > Eg. > > my @ints = qw(3 8 4 7 5 3 5 1); > my @sorted_ints = sort(@ints); > > foreach my $num (@sorted_ints) { > print "$num\n"; > } > > Hope it helps. > > - Scott. > Hmm, I didn't think that far ahead (a side effect of coding so late I guess... :p ). For a single-dimension array it worked great, thanks! (and to Anton and Andy!). What I need to do now though is somehow sort along with it two other arrays... What I had been trying to do, and what I am realizing now probably not work, is to somehow tie three arrays together and sort them together. Maybe it will be clearer if I explain what I am doing: I look at a directory and count how much space is used by the files within it and how many files they are (excluding sub-directories). So for example; here is the unsorted output I am working with: -=-=- code output -=-=- | |- Recording the new directory in the database as being on the destination partition: | |- Processing: [/], file num: [4], space within: [14.20 MB - 14892387 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images], file num: [10], space within: [963.1 KB - 986168 bytes] | |- Processing: [/vids], file num: [31], space within: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime], file num: [38], space within: [6.13 MB - 6425716 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite], file num: [22], space within: [2.65 MB - 2780829 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Icons-n-stuff], file num: [2], space within: [55.9 KB - 57271 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Mermaids], file num: [5], space within: [254.1 KB - 260205 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Post], file num: [2], space within: [123.9 KB - 126854 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/style], file num: [0], space within: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/vids], file num: [31], space within: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers], file num: [23], space within: [8.96 MB - 9393749 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Astro Boy], file num: [49], space within: [2.70 MB - 2829006 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/chacha], file num: [91], space within: [4.87 MB - 5110453 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Futaba-kun], file num: [8], space within: [3.71 MB - 3888806 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ghost in the Shell], file num: [73], space within: [14.04 MB - 14724290 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/jthm], file num: [16], space within: [274.4 KB - 280959 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Lum], file num: [29], space within: [2.60 MB - 2729299 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ranma], file num: [218], space within: [17.21 MB - 18043144 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/.thumbnails], file num: [37], space within: [561.7 KB - 575189 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Uh-huh], file num: [8], space within: [2.04 MB - 2136178 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/.xvpics], file num: [1], space within: [3.4 KB - 3432 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Futaba-kun/.xvpics], file num: [2], space within: [9.2 KB - 9443 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ghost in the Shell/Sonic], file num: [6], space within: [400.9 KB - 410529 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ghost in the Shell/.thumbnails], file num: [46], space within: [619.1 KB - 634008 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ranma/Sonic], file num: [8], space within: [1.67 MB - 1752506 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ranma/.thumbnails], file num: [140], space within: [1.73 MB - 1815526 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Uh-huh/.thumbnails], file num: [19], space within: [181.5 KB - 185836 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/Mers], file num: [25], space within: [6.39 MB - 6695960 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/.thumbnails], file num: [20], space within: [232.0 KB - 237571 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/Mers/.thumbnails], file num: [23], space within: [309.6 KB - 317014 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/Mers/.xvpics], file num: [2], space within: [9.5 KB - 9738 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Icons-n-stuff/.xvpics], file num: [1], space within: [3.6 KB - 3669 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Mermaids/.thumbnails], file num: [3], space within: [36.3 KB - 37182 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Post/.thumbnails], file num: [1], space within: [12.2 KB - 12492 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/style/.thumbnails], file num: [0], space within: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/.thumbnails], file num: [23], space within: [221.8 KB - 227143 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working], file num: [13], space within: [30.94 MB - 32437947 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/.xvpics], file num: [7], space within: [31.8 KB - 32543 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working/.thumbnails], file num: [21], space within: [196.2 KB - 200919 bytes] | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working/.xvpics], file num: [4], space within: [16.7 KB - 17086 bytes] Below here is the directory content sizes now sorted thanks to the help of you guys: | |- Sorting the directories by the size of their files (excluding sub-directories): | |- #0: Size: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] | |- #1: Size: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] | |- #2: Size: [30.94 MB - 32437947 bytes] | |- #3: Size: [17.21 MB - 18043144 bytes] | |- #4: Size: [14.20 MB - 14892387 bytes] | |- #5: Size: [14.04 MB - 14724290 bytes] | |- #6: Size: [8.96 MB - 9393749 bytes] | |- #7: Size: [6.39 MB - 6695960 bytes] | |- #8: Size: [6.13 MB - 6425716 bytes] | |- #9: Size: [4.87 MB - 5110453 bytes] | |- #10: Size: [3.71 MB - 3888806 bytes] | |- #11: Size: [2.70 MB - 2829006 bytes] | |- #12: Size: [2.65 MB - 2780829 bytes] | |- #13: Size: [2.60 MB - 2729299 bytes] | |- #14: Size: [2.04 MB - 2136178 bytes] | |- #15: Size: [1.73 MB - 1815526 bytes] | |- #16: Size: [1.67 MB - 1752506 bytes] | |- #17: Size: [963.1 KB - 986168 bytes] | |- #18: Size: [619.1 KB - 634008 bytes] | |- #19: Size: [561.7 KB - 575189 bytes] | |- #20: Size: [400.9 KB - 410529 bytes] | |- #21: Size: [309.6 KB - 317014 bytes] | |- #22: Size: [274.4 KB - 280959 bytes] | |- #23: Size: [254.1 KB - 260205 bytes] | |- #24: Size: [232.0 KB - 237571 bytes] | |- #25: Size: [221.8 KB - 227143 bytes] | |- #26: Size: [196.2 KB - 200919 bytes] | |- #27: Size: [181.5 KB - 185836 bytes] | |- #28: Size: [123.9 KB - 126854 bytes] | |- #29: Size: [55.9 KB - 57271 bytes] | |- #30: Size: [36.3 KB - 37182 bytes] | |- #31: Size: [31.8 KB - 32543 bytes] | |- #32: Size: [16.7 KB - 17086 bytes] | |- #33: Size: [12.2 KB - 12492 bytes] | |- #34: Size: [9.5 KB - 9738 bytes] | |- #35: Size: [9.2 KB - 9443 bytes] | |- #36: Size: [3.6 KB - 3669 bytes] | |- #37: Size: [3.4 KB - 3432 bytes] | |- #38: Size: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] | |- #39: Size: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] | \- Finished listing where files from this partition will be backed up to! -=-=- end code output -=-=- As I print out each unsorted directory, file count and file size I fead each variable into an array. I am now thinking of tieing the values together into a single string, sorting them and splitting them back out using a ':' as a seperator. Will the sizes still sort numberically though? It also seems like a really cumbersome way of doing it, too... Thanks!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From harambe-JzVURaXtkYJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 03:55:48 2004 From: harambe-JzVURaXtkYJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Galbraith) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 23:55:48 -0400 Subject: old tech References: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> Hi Everyone, I've been around the group for awhile, attended a few tlug meetings and am now looking around for another job. I've been with my present employer an Internet Service provider for about 8 years, working in every area of the company from res tech to corp tech to network integration to IP support. I've been submitting my resume to various companys and educational institutions such as UofT looking primarily for positions as a System Administrator and not even a nibble, I suspect it has to do with the fact that I don't have any certificates or degrees. This annoys me to no end. In my position I'm the guy who is assigned the problems that no one else can solve. I deal with a lot of "network admins", I use that term loosely. The ones I deal with are the ones who have no idea what they're doing and then calling me for help when they've discovered that ORDB has listed them. Most recently I was dealing with Air Canada's postmaster who blocked all mail from us and claimed that we sent 16,000 spam mails. Actually we were being spammed and the "spam" he was recieving was NDR messages. He had blocked the entire class c that our mail server was in!!!! The postmaster responded once that we were a spammer and then ignored any further emails until I took a guess at an email and sent one to robert.milton-LH3SvzYeloVXv2ZoxMgBTQ at public.gmane.org The network admins arranged a conference call after that. We suggested they just block the server that sends the NDR's. It hard to explain but I've always had a sixth sense when it comes to computers, maybe it's my analytical mind. I've used many flavours of linux and have pretty much settled on Slackware. Although I'm writing this on a win machine. Any how should I just bite the bullet and go for a certificate just for the sake of appeasing prospective employers? Signed, A frustrated tech (or maybe I'm just getting old) Dave Galbraith -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 04:10:11 2004 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:10:11 -0400 Subject: old tech In-Reply-To: <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> References: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> Message-ID: Hi Dave. Not all employers focus solely on certifications. Accomplishments are good as well. I don't know what your resume looks like, but I would write on it some of your major projects while working for the ISP. That will add a lot to your credibility. It's one thing to be "Linux certified", but quite another to have actually done the work, and well. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From StreetSmart2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 04:14:15 2004 From: StreetSmart2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (StreetSmart) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 00:14:15 -0400 Subject: Javascript Question References: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> Message-ID: <004001c484d9$d39b0c60$6401a8c0@k4d8m1> Hey, I have two forms on my web site that change according to what page your on. The problem is, when i try and link home I can only change one form. My question is, are there any way to make one link change two forms? Thanks allot. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From harambe-JzVURaXtkYJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 05:24:40 2004 From: harambe-JzVURaXtkYJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Galbraith) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 01:24:40 -0400 Subject: old tech References: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> Message-ID: <024b01c484e3$a9a015e0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> Hi Paul, Hmmm....I've actually thought of omitting some of my projects from the resume in that perhaps prospective emplyers are looking at it and thinking I'm over qualified. Some of the projects on the resume are migrating Vision TV from a Novell network to a Windows network and setting up a Wide Area Network for Bata Shoe Limited between Batawa, Toronto and Markham. Setting up Bata's Mail server to service accounts in 26 countries around the world. Dave Galbraith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Mora" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 12:10 AM Subject: Re: [TLUG]: old tech > Hi Dave. > > Not all employers focus solely on certifications. Accomplishments are > good as well. I don't know what your resume looks like, but I would > write on it some of your major projects while working for the ISP. > That will add a lot to your credibility. It's one thing to be "Linux > certified", but quite another to have actually done the work, and > well. > > pm > > -- > Paul Mora > email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 06:07:26 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:07:26 -0400 Subject: Javascript Question In-Reply-To: <004001c484d9$d39b0c60$6401a8c0@k4d8m1> References: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> <004001c484d9$d39b0c60$6401a8c0@k4d8m1> Message-ID: <1092809244.1419.1639.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 00:14, StreetSmart wrote: > Hey, I have two forms on my web site that change according to what page your > on. The problem is, when i try and link > > home > > I can only change one form. My question is, are there any way to make one > link change two forms? Thanks allot. I'm no jscript expert by any stretch, but if you're referring to frames, you could use something like below in an onload or onclick handler: (assumes your frameset has 2 frames; the first called 'control' and the second 'main') self.parent.frames[0].location.href="http://abc.com/some/file.php"; This would change the page displayed in the 'control' frame. Replace the [0] with [1] to change the page in the 'main' frame. Not sure if that makes much sense, but I know very little jscript, and even less about sleep. ;) Anyway, I have an onload version of the above at http://psema4.gotdns.com/docbrowser/ Selecting anything from the drop-down box (top frame) sets off a 2-step series of these. The method should be visible by viewing the source of the top and/or left frames. I imagine there's a better way to do it, but this seems to work well enough. Hope it helps. - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 06:30:59 2004 From: kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Kevin C. Krinke) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:30:59 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <4122D08A.2020302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> <1092798394.1419.1424.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4122D08A.2020302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1092810659.1530.68.camel@onest8> On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 23:44, Madison Kelly wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: > > On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 22:51, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >>Hi all, > >> > > Hmm, I didn't think that far ahead (a side effect of coding so late I > guess... :p ). For a single-dimension array it worked great, thanks! > (and to Anton and Andy!). > > What I need to do now though is somehow sort along with it two other > arrays... What I had been trying to do, and what I am realizing now > probably not work, is to somehow tie three arrays together and sort them > together. Maybe it will be clearer if I explain what I am doing: > > I look at a directory and count how much space is used by the files > within it and how many files they are (excluding sub-directories). So > for example; here is the unsorted output I am working with: > > -=-=- code output -=-=- > | |- Recording the new directory in the database as being on the > destination partition: > | |- Processing: [/], file num: [4], space within: [14.20 MB - > 14892387 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working/.xvpics], file > num: [4], space within: [16.7 KB - 17086 bytes] > > > Below here is the directory content sizes now sorted thanks to the help > of you guys: > > > | |- Sorting the directories by the size of their files (excluding > sub-directories): > | |- #0: Size: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] > | |- #39: Size: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] > | \- Finished listing where files from this partition will be backed > up to! > -=-=- end code output -=-=- > > As I print out each unsorted directory, file count and file size I fead > each variable into an array. I am now thinking of tieing the values > together into a single string, sorting them and splitting them back out > using a ':' as a seperator. Will the sizes still sort numberically > though? It also seems like a really cumbersome way of doing it, too... Off the top of my head, late at night and feeling creative: /usr/bin/perl -e ' #: First we need to process the directories and build up our data #: structure. In this case we are going to have each row of output #: represented as follows: #: #: $data{$path} = { files => $num_files, space => $bytes_of_space } #: #: Of course you can replace/remove/add as many key=>val pairs to #: each $path hash ref to suite your needs. #: Fudge some data for example purposes %data = ( "/images/many" => { files => 13, space => 32437947 }, "/images/style" => { files => 2, space => 1024 }, "/images/these" => { files => 0, space => 0 }, "/images/those" => { files => 1, space => 0 }, "/images/Post" => { files => 1, space => 37182 } ); #: First we sort "normally" @sorted_by_path = sort( keys( %data ) ); print "\nSorted by path name (ascending alphanumeric):\n"; Print_Output( @sorted_by_path ); #: Then we sort on the files key value (note $b and $a) @sorted_by_files = sort { $data{$b}->{files} <=> $data{$a}->{files} } keys( %data ); print "\nSorted by file count (descending):\n"; Print_Output( @sorted_by_files ); #: And now we sort on the space key value @sorted_by_space = sort { $data{$b}->{space} <=> $data{$a}->{space} } keys( %data ); print "\nSorted by space within (descending):\n"; Print_Output( @sorted_by_space ); #: our simple sub to print some human readable output sub Print_Output { @sorted = @_; $c = 0; foreach $path ( @sorted ) { #: we need to be careful here because some rows of data have #: no files and/or size. print "\t[" . $c ."] " . $path . "\t: " . ($data{$path}->{files}||"0") . "\t: " . ($data{$path}->{space}||"0") . "\n"; $c++; } } ' For more Perl help try: http://to.pm.org/ (Toronto Perl Mongers) http://perlmonks.org/ (Excellent forums) http://perl.com/pub/q/documentation (Where I began to learn Perl) http://search.cpan.org/ (Where I now learn the most) - Kevin -- Kevin C. Krinke Open Door Software Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 06:42:42 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:42:42 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <1092810659.1530.68.camel@onest8> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> <1092798394.1419.1424.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4122D08A.2020302@alteeve.com> <1092810659.1530.68.camel@onest8> Message-ID: <1092811360.1419.1710.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 02:30, Kevin C. Krinke wrote: > On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 23:44, Madison Kelly wrote: > > Scott Elcomb wrote: > > > On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 22:51, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > > > >>Hi all, > > >> > > > > > > > Hmm, I didn't think that far ahead (a side effect of coding so late I > > guess... :p ). For a single-dimension array it worked great, thanks! > > (and to Anton and Andy!). > > > > What I need to do now though is somehow sort along with it two other > > arrays... What I had been trying to do, and what I am realizing now > > probably not work, is to somehow tie three arrays together and sort them > > together. Maybe it will be clearer if I explain what I am doing: > > > > I look at a directory and count how much space is used by the files > > within it and how many files they are (excluding sub-directories). So > > for example; here is the unsorted output I am working with: > > > > -=-=- code output -=-=- > > | |- Recording the new directory in the database as being on the > > destination partition: > > | |- Processing: [/], file num: [4], space within: [14.20 MB - > > 14892387 bytes] > > > > > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working/.xvpics], file > > num: [4], space within: [16.7 KB - 17086 bytes] > > > > > > Below here is the directory content sizes now sorted thanks to the help > > of you guys: > > > > > > | |- Sorting the directories by the size of their files (excluding > > sub-directories): > > | |- #0: Size: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] > > > > > | |- #39: Size: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] > > | \- Finished listing where files from this partition will be backed > > up to! > > -=-=- end code output -=-=- > > > > As I print out each unsorted directory, file count and file size I fead > > each variable into an array. I am now thinking of tieing the values > > together into a single string, sorting them and splitting them back out > > using a ':' as a seperator. Will the sizes still sort numberically > > though? It also seems like a really cumbersome way of doing it, too... > > Off the top of my head, late at night and feeling creative: > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > #: First we need to process the directories and build up our data > #: structure. In this case we are going to have each row of output > #: represented as follows: > #: > #: $data{$path} = { files => $num_files, space => $bytes_of_space } > #: > #: Of course you can replace/remove/add as many key=>val pairs to > #: each $path hash ref to suite your needs. > > #: Fudge some data for example purposes > %data = ( "/images/many" => { files => 13, space => 32437947 }, > "/images/style" => { files => 2, space => 1024 }, > "/images/these" => { files => 0, space => 0 }, > "/images/those" => { files => 1, space => 0 }, > "/images/Post" => { files => 1, space => 37182 } ); > > #: First we sort "normally" > @sorted_by_path = > sort( keys( %data ) ); > print "\nSorted by path name (ascending alphanumeric):\n"; > Print_Output( @sorted_by_path ); > > #: Then we sort on the files key value (note $b and $a) > @sorted_by_files = > sort { $data{$b}->{files} <=> $data{$a}->{files} } keys( %data ); > print "\nSorted by file count (descending):\n"; > Print_Output( @sorted_by_files ); > > #: And now we sort on the space key value > @sorted_by_space = > sort { $data{$b}->{space} <=> $data{$a}->{space} } keys( %data ); > print "\nSorted by space within (descending):\n"; > Print_Output( @sorted_by_space ); > > #: our simple sub to print some human readable output > sub Print_Output { > @sorted = @_; > $c = 0; > foreach $path ( @sorted ) { > #: we need to be careful here because some rows of data have > #: no files and/or size. > print "\t[" . $c ."] " . $path . > "\t: " . ($data{$path}->{files}||"0") . > "\t: " . ($data{$path}->{space}||"0") . "\n"; > $c++; > } > } > ' > > For more Perl help try: > http://to.pm.org/ (Toronto Perl Mongers) > http://perlmonks.org/ (Excellent forums) > http://perl.com/pub/q/documentation (Where I began to learn Perl) > http://search.cpan.org/ (Where I now learn the most) > > - Kevin -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 06:46:41 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:46:41 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <1092811360.1419.1710.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> <1092798394.1419.1424.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4122D08A.2020302@alteeve.com> <1092810659.1530.68.camel@onest8> <1092811360.1419.1710.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1092811599.1419.1721.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry, helps if I include the reply text. :( [...] > > Off the top of my head, late at night and feeling creative: > > > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' [...] Many thanks for that example. I had another one, but it's an ugly piece next to yours. :) - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 06:51:34 2004 From: kckrinke-eqjHHVKjh9GttCpgsWEBFlaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Kevin C. Krinke) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 02:51:34 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <1092811599.1419.1721.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> <1092798394.1419.1424.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4122D08A.2020302@alteeve.com> <1092810659.1530.68.camel@onest8> <1092811360.1419.1710.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1092811599.1419.1721.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1092811894.1592.71.camel@onest8> On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 02:46, Scott Elcomb wrote: > Sorry, helps if I include the reply text. :( It's all good :) > [...] > > > Off the top of my head, late at night and feeling creative: > > > > > > /usr/bin/perl -e ' > [...] > > Many thanks for that example. I had another one, but it's an ugly piece > next to yours. :) Not a problem, enjoy! - Kevin -- Kevin C. Krinke Open Door Software Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 12:45:22 2004 From: john-Z7w/En0MP3xWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (John Macdonald) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:45:22 -0400 Subject: Sorting numbers in an array In-Reply-To: <4122D08A.2020302-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4122C425.9000702@alteeve.com> <1092798394.1419.1424.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4122D08A.2020302@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040818124521.GA4769@lupus.perlwolf.com> Madison, If you want to keep the data in separate arrays, the easiest way to sort it all is to use another array containing indices. # initialize multiple equal length arrays: @name = ( ... ); @file = ( ... ); @size = ( ... ); # set up index array: @index = sort { $size[$a] <=> $size[$b] } 0..$#size; # print in index order: printf "%6d %4d %s\n", $size[$_], $file[$_], $name[$_] for @index; However, as was already pointed out, you are generally going to be better off collecting the info into a single combined structure and sorting it. The combined structure will have two levels, the bottom level will determine how you collect together info for an individual item; the top level will determine how you collect the individual items together into a single structure. At each level you can choose a hash or an array. Here's code to convert the separate arrays into each form (although you would normally just collect the info in your desired format instead of using separate arrays and then converting): for my $index ( 0 .. $#name ) { # choose one # hash of hash $hoh{$name[$index} = { file=>$file[$index], size=>$size[$index] ); # hash of array $hoa{$name[$index} = [ $file[$index], $size[$index] ]; # array of hash push @aoh, { name=>$name[$index], file=>$file[$index], size=>$size[$index] ); # array of array push @aoa, [ $name[$index], $file[$index], $size[$index] ]; } If you use a hash for the top level (hash of xxx) form, then you will need to use an array of keys to hold the sorted order (as was shown in an earlier post that used hash of hash). If you use an array for the top level (array of xxx) form, then that array can be reordered directly: # sort array of hash by size: @aoh = sort { $a->{size} <=> $b->{size} } @aoh; # sort array of array by size: @aoa = sort { $a->[2] <=> $b->[2] } @aoa; (You can see, by comparing those two snippets, how the choice of hash of array for the inner level of the per-item data affects the code.) There is a lot of discussion of this sort of data structuring choice in each of Programming Perl, the Perl Cookbook, and in the on-line documentation. On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 11:44:10PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote: > Scott Elcomb wrote: > >On Tue, 2004-08-17 at 22:51, Madison Kelly wrote: > > > >>Hi all, > >> > >> I have an array of interger values in perl (i386 Linux 2.6 - FC2). Is > >>there an easy way that anyone knows to pull those values out from > >>smallest value to largest (or vice versa)? > >> > >> Thanks! > > > > > >How many dimensions are in the array? > > > >Single-dimensional arrays can be done quickly with sort (works with > >floats as well) > > > >Eg. > > > >my @ints = qw(3 8 4 7 5 3 5 1); > >my @sorted_ints = sort(@ints); > > > >foreach my $num (@sorted_ints) { > > print "$num\n"; > >} > > > >Hope it helps. > > > >- Scott. > > > > Hmm, I didn't think that far ahead (a side effect of coding so late I > guess... :p ). For a single-dimension array it worked great, thanks! > (and to Anton and Andy!). > > What I need to do now though is somehow sort along with it two other > arrays... What I had been trying to do, and what I am realizing now > probably not work, is to somehow tie three arrays together and sort them > together. Maybe it will be clearer if I explain what I am doing: > > I look at a directory and count how much space is used by the files > within it and how many files they are (excluding sub-directories). So > for example; here is the unsorted output I am working with: > > -=-=- code output -=-=- > | |- Recording the new directory in the database as being on the > destination partition: > | |- Processing: [/], file num: [4], space within: [14.20 MB - > 14892387 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images], file num: [10], space within: > [963.1 KB - 986168 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/vids], file num: [31], space within: [1.036 GB - > 1112068984 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime], file num: [38], space > within: [6.13 MB - 6425716 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite], file num: [22], space > within: [2.65 MB - 2780829 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Icons-n-stuff], file num: [2], space > within: [55.9 KB - 57271 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Mermaids], file num: [5], space > within: [254.1 KB - 260205 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Post], file num: [2], space within: > [123.9 KB - 126854 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/style], file num: [0], space within: > [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/vids], file num: [31], space within: > [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers], file num: [23], space > within: [8.96 MB - 9393749 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Astro Boy], file num: [49], > space within: [2.70 MB - 2829006 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/chacha], file num: [91], space > within: [4.87 MB - 5110453 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Futaba-kun], file num: [8], > space within: [3.71 MB - 3888806 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ghost in the Shell], file num: > [73], space within: [14.04 MB - 14724290 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/jthm], file num: [16], space > within: [274.4 KB - 280959 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Lum], file num: [29], space > within: [2.60 MB - 2729299 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ranma], file num: [218], space > within: [17.21 MB - 18043144 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/.thumbnails], file num: [37], > space within: [561.7 KB - 575189 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Uh-huh], file num: [8], space > within: [2.04 MB - 2136178 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/.xvpics], file num: [1], space > within: [3.4 KB - 3432 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Futaba-kun/.xvpics], file num: > [2], space within: [9.2 KB - 9443 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ghost in the Shell/Sonic], > file num: [6], space within: [400.9 KB - 410529 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ghost in the > Shell/.thumbnails], file num: [46], space within: [619.1 KB - 634008 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ranma/Sonic], file num: [8], > space within: [1.67 MB - 1752506 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Ranma/.thumbnails], file num: > [140], space within: [1.73 MB - 1815526 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Anime/Uh-huh/.thumbnails], file num: > [19], space within: [181.5 KB - 185836 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/Mers], file num: [25], > space within: [6.39 MB - 6695960 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/.thumbnails], file num: > [20], space within: [232.0 KB - 237571 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/Mers/.thumbnails], file > num: [23], space within: [309.6 KB - 317014 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Favorite/Mers/.xvpics], file num: > [2], space within: [9.5 KB - 9738 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Icons-n-stuff/.xvpics], file num: > [1], space within: [3.6 KB - 3669 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Mermaids/.thumbnails], file num: > [3], space within: [36.3 KB - 37182 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Post/.thumbnails], file num: [1], > space within: [12.2 KB - 12492 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/style/.thumbnails], file num: [0], > space within: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/.thumbnails], file num: > [23], space within: [221.8 KB - 227143 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working], file num: [13], > space within: [30.94 MB - 32437947 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/.xvpics], file num: [7], > space within: [31.8 KB - 32543 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working/.thumbnails], > file num: [21], space within: [196.2 KB - 200919 bytes] > | |- Processing: [/Maddy's Images/Wallpapers/working/.xvpics], file > num: [4], space within: [16.7 KB - 17086 bytes] > > > Below here is the directory content sizes now sorted thanks to the help > of you guys: > > > | |- Sorting the directories by the size of their files (excluding > sub-directories): > | |- #0: Size: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] > | |- #1: Size: [1.036 GB - 1112068984 bytes] > | |- #2: Size: [30.94 MB - 32437947 bytes] > | |- #3: Size: [17.21 MB - 18043144 bytes] > | |- #4: Size: [14.20 MB - 14892387 bytes] > | |- #5: Size: [14.04 MB - 14724290 bytes] > | |- #6: Size: [8.96 MB - 9393749 bytes] > | |- #7: Size: [6.39 MB - 6695960 bytes] > | |- #8: Size: [6.13 MB - 6425716 bytes] > | |- #9: Size: [4.87 MB - 5110453 bytes] > | |- #10: Size: [3.71 MB - 3888806 bytes] > | |- #11: Size: [2.70 MB - 2829006 bytes] > | |- #12: Size: [2.65 MB - 2780829 bytes] > | |- #13: Size: [2.60 MB - 2729299 bytes] > | |- #14: Size: [2.04 MB - 2136178 bytes] > | |- #15: Size: [1.73 MB - 1815526 bytes] > | |- #16: Size: [1.67 MB - 1752506 bytes] > | |- #17: Size: [963.1 KB - 986168 bytes] > | |- #18: Size: [619.1 KB - 634008 bytes] > | |- #19: Size: [561.7 KB - 575189 bytes] > | |- #20: Size: [400.9 KB - 410529 bytes] > | |- #21: Size: [309.6 KB - 317014 bytes] > | |- #22: Size: [274.4 KB - 280959 bytes] > | |- #23: Size: [254.1 KB - 260205 bytes] > | |- #24: Size: [232.0 KB - 237571 bytes] > | |- #25: Size: [221.8 KB - 227143 bytes] > | |- #26: Size: [196.2 KB - 200919 bytes] > | |- #27: Size: [181.5 KB - 185836 bytes] > | |- #28: Size: [123.9 KB - 126854 bytes] > | |- #29: Size: [55.9 KB - 57271 bytes] > | |- #30: Size: [36.3 KB - 37182 bytes] > | |- #31: Size: [31.8 KB - 32543 bytes] > | |- #32: Size: [16.7 KB - 17086 bytes] > | |- #33: Size: [12.2 KB - 12492 bytes] > | |- #34: Size: [9.5 KB - 9738 bytes] > | |- #35: Size: [9.2 KB - 9443 bytes] > | |- #36: Size: [3.6 KB - 3669 bytes] > | |- #37: Size: [3.4 KB - 3432 bytes] > | |- #38: Size: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] > | |- #39: Size: [0 Bytes - 0 bytes] > | \- Finished listing where files from this partition will be backed > up to! > -=-=- end code output -=-=- > > As I print out each unsorted directory, file count and file size I fead > each variable into an array. I am now thinking of tieing the values > together into a single string, sorting them and splitting them back out > using a ':' as a seperator. Will the sizes still sort numberically > though? It also seems like a really cumbersome way of doing it, too... > > Thanks!! > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 12:48:41 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 08:48:41 -0400 Subject: Javascript Question In-Reply-To: <1092809244.1419.1639.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org> References: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> <004001c484d9$d39b0c60$6401a8c0@k4d8m1> <1092809244.1419.1639.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <41235029.8030604@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Scott Elcomb wrote: | On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 00:14, StreetSmart wrote: | |>Hey, I have two forms on my web site that change according to what page your |>on. The problem is, when i try and link |> |> home |> |>I can only change one form. My question is, are there any way to make one |>link change two forms? Thanks allot. | | | I'm no jscript expert by any stretch, but if you're referring to frames, | you could use something like below in an onload or onclick handler: I think you're right about the two frames. The other thing you can do is hit the base of the frameset by setting a target (or "_parent" if you're in one of those deeply nested framesets). Then you'll need a cgi to serve up your base frame. I know, it's retro. You kids with your new fangled ecmascript ways of doing things... - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBI1Algfzn5SevSpoRAoZRAKDEJqg35jNjndIVVN6NBmXvYH57GgCdFffD VJoXAnJGbJnJJgeMJT+yjfI= =JWn2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ahammond.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 533 bytes Desc: not available URL: From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 14:56:04 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 10:56:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: old tech In-Reply-To: <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> References: <20040817185103.GA1774@node1.opengeometry.net> <006601c484d7$4007bae0$0e01a8c0@upstairs> Message-ID: Hi, Much as I detest certifications, sometimes you have to 'play the game' and get certifications. It sounds like you have lots of great experience, so getting the piece of paper would be a good investment. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 00:27:52 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 20:27:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040817142337.GH12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040817142337.GH12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Aug 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 10:35:17PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> Normally you want to do something like that using cpio, and not tar. You >> can prepare a filelist using find / -prune /dev -a etc etc to remove >> unpalatable things from the archive. > > Not if it's a tar file you are trying to create. > > I use afio for backups, but I never have understood the point of cpio. > What does it do that rsync doesn't do for me? cpio is clever about device files and such. You can copy the devices as is, or links to same wherever they are in the fs without trouble. rpm uses cpio internally among others. Other than that, nothing special. But I still prefer to use find and make a file-list (equivalent to ls -lR but better) and then have a peek at it before using it as file list for the backup or system transfer. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 17:47:20 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 13:47:20 -0400 Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040817142337.GH12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040818174720.GI12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 17, 2004 at 08:27:52PM -0400, Peter L. Peres wrote: > cpio is clever about device files and such. You can copy the devices as > is, or links to same wherever they are in the fs without trouble. rpm uses > cpio internally among others. Other than that, nothing special. But I > still prefer to use find and make a file-list (equivalent to ls -lR but > better) and then have a peek at it before using it as file list for the > backup or system transfer. Well I have tob for managing that part of backups. I decided afio was a nice archive format for backups, since it compresses each file inside the archive, rather than applying compression to the archive after making it. This way seeking to a given file is fast, since it doesn't have to decompress the file to seek, only the wanted file data. On tape this may not matter if your tape drive can't seek quickly to a specific location, but on DVD (which we use) it makes for very fast restores. Preferably restores aren't needed of course and to help avoid the need I also have rsnapshot setup. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 20:18:56 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:18:56 -0400 Subject: Bash Programming Message-ID: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> Hey, I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) #export_tables[0]="hello" for table in ${export_tables[@]}; do echo "$table" done However, when I run this I get the error: import.sh: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") Which is on the line with: export_tables=( "cp_visa" "cp_mc" "cp_diners" "cp_amex" ) If I run this on my Mandrake Linux box it runs find however when I run it on my freeBSD server I get the error. When I run bash --version on the freeBSD box I get: GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. Does this version not support arrays? Is there some setting I have to edit? Thanks for the help. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 20:28:43 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:28:43 -0400 Subject: psql/perl oddity Message-ID: <4123BBFB.6040906@alteeve.com> Hi all, I hope this doesn't turn out to be ab obvious question but at the moment I am stumped... I am trying to read in some values from a database. If I manually enter the SELECT statement all the values come back properly. If I try to get perl to read them though I can't get the value out of one column but the rest are fine... Here is what is in the relevant DB table: mntdir | freecap | maxcap | usedcap | assign_up_to | assigned_space | fs ------------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+--------------+----------------+------ | 19947421696 | 22094331904 | 1024573440 | 0 | 0 | ext3 | 1781760000 | 1912516608 | 33603584 | 0 | 0 | ext3 | 1593700352 | 1714405376 | 33615872 | 0 | 0 | ext3 | 2092072960 | 2285854720 | 77664256 | 0 | 0 | ext3 / | 2513367040 | 24514211840 | 20755587072 | 0 | 0 | ext3 /mnt/tle-bu/src0 | 232838144 | 259932160 | 13669376 | 0 | 0 | ext3 /mnt/tle-bu/src1 | 185249792 | 4227399680 | 3827400704 | 0 | 0 | ext3 /mnt/tle-bu/dst2 | 13286752256 | 22435807232 | 9149054976 | 786598555 | 0 | vfat | 57528414208 | 78766505984 | 17236905984 | 0 | 0 | ext3 | 35888373760 | 39387484160 | 1498312704 | 0 | 0 | ext3 /mnt/tle-bu/dst1 | 23020912640 | 24288321536 | 33619968 | 786598556 | 0 | ext3 /mnt/tle-bu/dst0 | 30556512256 | 32384032768 | 182468608 | 786598555 | 0 | ext3 Notice that 'assigned_space' is '0' but 'assign_up_to' has a value on three entries (786598555)? If I try to read this out with this statement: SELECT mntdir, freecap, maxcap, usedcap, assign_up_to, assigned_space, fs FROM dev WHERE uuid='78A3-2578'; I get: mntdir | freecap | maxcap | usedcap | assign_up_to | assigned_space | fs ------------------+-------------+-------------+------------+--------------+----------------+------ /mnt/tle-bu/dst2 | 13286752256 | 22435807232 | 9149054976 | 786598555 | 0 | vfat Perfect! Notice that 'assign_up_to' has a value? Well, when I try to do the same thing in perl like this it is always returns '0': print " |- DBI: SELECT mntdir, freecap, maxcap, usedcap, assign_up_to, assigned_space, fs FROM dev WHERE uuid='$uuid';\n"; $DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT mntdir, freecap, maxcap, usedcap, assign_up_to, assigned_space, fs FROM dev WHERE uuid='$uuid'") || die $DBI::errstr; $null=$DBreq->execute(); @part_info=$DBreq->fetchrow_array(); print " | |- DEBUG: mntdir: [$part_info[0]], freecap: [$part_info[1]], maxcap: [$part_info[2]], usedcap: [$part_info[3]], assign_up_to: [$part_info[4]], assigned_space: [$part_info[5]], fs: [$part_info[6]]\n"; This prints this output: mntdir: [/mnt/tle-bu/dst2], freecap: [13286752256], maxcap: [22435807232], usedcap: [9149054976], assign_up_to: [0], assigned_space: [0], fs: [vfat] It doesn't matter what order I call the columns in, it is always that one column that returns '0'. The column is 'BIGINT', Not Null, Default 0, in case it matters. Can anyone see what I am doing wrong? Thanks! Madison PS - I make a LOT of DB calls in this program and so far as I can tell this is the only place that it glitches. PPS - Here's what PostgreSQL makes of this table: Table "public.dev" Column | Type | Modifiers ------------------+------------------------+------------------------ uuid | character varying(40) | not null path | character varying(255) | label | character varying(255) | sec_type | character varying(32) | type | character varying(32) | fs | character varying(32) | mntdir | character varying(255) | premount | integer | not null default 0 mntstat | integer | not null default 0 maxcap | bigint | maxcap_com | character varying(128) | maxcap_hr | real | maxcap_pf | character varying(8) | usedcap | bigint | usedcap_com | character varying(128) | usedcap_hr | real | usedcap_pf | character varying(8) | freecap | bigint | freecap_com | character varying(128) | freecap_hr | real | freecap_pf | character varying(8) | usedprc | integer | usedprc_barused | integer | usedprc_barfree | integer | bar_colour | character varying(8) | assigned | integer | not null default 0 last_update_date | character varying(12) | last_update_time | character varying(20) | online | boolean | comment | text | in_use_by | integer | not null default 0 in_use_set | integer | not null default 0 in_use_locked | boolean | not null default false assign_up_to | bigint | not null default 0 assigned_space | bigint | not null default 0 Indexes: "dev_pkey" primary key, btree (uuid) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 20:49:26 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: psql/perl oddity In-Reply-To: <4123BBFB.6040906-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <4123BBFB.6040906@alteeve.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Madison Kelly wrote: [..] > Perfect! Notice that 'assign_up_to' has a value? Well, when I try to > do the same thing in perl like this it is always returns '0': > > Normally I would set a query string to hold the query, then print and prepare the same string. Less chance of thumb-fingeredness. > print " |- DBI: SELECT mntdir, freecap, maxcap, usedcap, assign_up_to, > assigned_space, fs FROM dev WHERE uuid='$uuid';\n"; > $DBreq=$DB->prepare("SELECT mntdir, freecap, maxcap, usedcap, > assign_up_to, assigned_space, fs FROM dev WHERE uuid='$uuid'") || die > $DBI::errstr; Yikes. Here you're using Perl interpolation to put the UUID into the query. Better to use a placeholder (?) instead, and pass the real $uuid into the execute method. > $null=$DBreq->execute(); > @part_info=$DBreq->fetchrow_array(); > print " | |- DEBUG: mntdir: [$part_info[0]], freecap: [$part_info[1]], > maxcap: [$part_info[2]], usedcap: [$part_info[3]], assign_up_to: > [$part_info[4]], assigned_space: [$part_info[5]], fs: [$part_info[6]]\n"; Well, when all else fails, add $DBReq->trace(2,'/var/tmp/DBI-August18.log') into your code, resetting trace to zero afterwards, and see what DBI thinks is going on. My guess is that you've got a bad field name in there, even though what you've quoted doesn't show anything. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 20:57:26 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:57:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <1092860336.30675.205.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this > piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: > > export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) > #export_tables[0]="hello" > > for table in ${export_tables[@]}; > do > echo "$table" > done It works for me in both Mandrake Linux and FreeBSD. Are you sure you're executing it with bash? Do you have a shebang line at the top of the script? > However, when I run this I get the error: > import.sh: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") > Which is on the line with: > export_tables=( "cp_visa" "cp_mc" "cp_diners" "cp_amex" ) > > If I run this on my Mandrake Linux box it runs find however when I run > it on my freeBSD server I get the error. > When I run bash --version on the freeBSD box I get: > GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) > Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > Does this version not support arrays? Is there some setting I have to > edit? > > Thanks for the help. > > Later > > > -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 21:00:05 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:00:05 -0400 Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <1092860336.30675.205.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040818210005.GA4407@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 04:18:56PM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this > piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: > > export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) > #export_tables[0]="hello" > > for table in ${export_tables[@]}; > do > echo "$table" > done > > However, when I run this I get the error: > import.sh: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") > Which is on the line with: > export_tables=( "cp_visa" "cp_mc" "cp_diners" "cp_amex" ) > > If I run this on my Mandrake Linux box it runs find however when I run > it on my freeBSD server I get the error. > When I run bash --version on the freeBSD box I get: > GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) > Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > Does this version not support arrays? Is there some setting I have to > edit? Bash-2.05b supports array, as evidenced by Linux box. Your scripts runs okey here on 2.05b and 3.0. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 21:05:08 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:05:08 -0400 Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: References: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <1092863107.30675.227.camel@192.168.1.80> On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 16:57, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this > > piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: > > > > export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) > > #export_tables[0]="hello" > > > > for table in ${export_tables[@]}; > > do > > echo "$table" > > done > > It works for me in both Mandrake Linux and FreeBSD. > > Are you sure you're executing it with bash? > > Do you have a shebang line at the top of the script? What do you mean executing it with bash? I run the file with: sh file.sh There is more stuff in the file and if I edit out the array stuff it runs fine with no errors. I am wondering if I should change my shebang? Or maybe I should start up bash differently? Are there warning commands like perl's -w?? Or maybe I should just write the dam thing in perl :). I would probably be done the script by now if I wrote it in perl....but I would like to get better at bash. Thanks for the help. Later > > > However, when I run this I get the error: > > import.sh: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") > > Which is on the line with: > > export_tables=( "cp_visa" "cp_mc" "cp_diners" "cp_amex" ) > > > > If I run this on my Mandrake Linux box it runs find however when I run > > it on my freeBSD server I get the error. > > When I run bash --version on the freeBSD box I get: > > GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) > > Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > > > Does this version not support arrays? Is there some setting I have to > > edit? > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Later > > > > > > -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 21:12:40 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:12:40 -0400 Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <20040818210005.GA4407-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040818210005.GA4407@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <1092863559.30675.231.camel@192.168.1.80> On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 17:00, William Park wrote: > On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 04:18:56PM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this > > piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: > > > > export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) > > #export_tables[0]="hello" > > > > for table in ${export_tables[@]}; > > do > > echo "$table" > > done > > > > However, when I run this I get the error: > > import.sh: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") > > Which is on the line with: > > export_tables=( "cp_visa" "cp_mc" "cp_diners" "cp_amex" ) > > > > If I run this on my Mandrake Linux box it runs find however when I run > > it on my freeBSD server I get the error. > > When I run bash --version on the freeBSD box I get: > > GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) > > Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > > > Does this version not support arrays? Is there some setting I have to > > edit? > > Bash-2.05b supports array, as evidenced by Linux box. Your scripts runs > okey here on 2.05b and 3.0. Ok...I ran it with ./file.sh and it worked fine!! What is the difference between ./ and sh? I don't want to make the same mistake again. When things like this happen I begin to realize how little I know about computers :). Thanks for the help. -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 21:19:15 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:19:15 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <1092863107.30675.227.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> <1092863107.30675.227.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: > On Wed, 2004-08-18 at 16:57, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Devin Whalen wrote: >> >>> Hey, >>> >>> I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this >>> piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: >>> >>> export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) >>> #export_tables[0]="hello" >>> >>> for table in ${export_tables[@]}; >>> do >>> echo "$table" >>> done >> >> It works for me in both Mandrake Linux and FreeBSD. >> >> Are you sure you're executing it with bash? >> >> Do you have a shebang line at the top of the script? > > What do you mean executing it with bash? I run the file with: > sh file.sh If you do that in FreeBSD, you are not using bash; on FreeBSD, sh is the same as ash in Linux, and it doesn't have arrays. Try: bash file.sh Or if bash is your shell, just: file.sh Or you can put a shebang as the first line of your file (check the location of bash on your box): #! /usr/local/bin/bash -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org/shell ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 18 21:24:05 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 17:24:05 -0400 Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <1092863559.30675.231.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040818210005.GA4407@node1.opengeometry.net> <1092863559.30675.231.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040818212405.GH28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 05:12:40PM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > Ok...I ran it with ./file.sh and it worked fine!! What is the > difference between ./ and sh? I don't want to make the same mistake > again. > > When things like this happen I begin to realize how little I know about > computers :). > > Thanks for the help. You may notice that /bin/sh and /bin/bash are in fact the same file on your Linux box, but that they are NOT the same on the FreeBSD box. sh and bash are not the same thing, though any legal sh script should execute just fine in bash (by design). The reverse, as you've found, is not true. ;) Linux: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 730496 Feb 9 2004 /bin/bash lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 Feb 9 2004 /bin/sh -> bash FreeBSD: -rwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 817300 Jan 19 2003 /usr/local/bin/bash -r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 461252 May 31 19:44 /bin/sh -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 01:16:39 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:16:39 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Bash Programming Message-ID: <4123C737.11777.18887EE@localhost> ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: Paul King To: Devin Whalen Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bash Programming Send reply to: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Date sent: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:12:06 -0400 Subject: [TLUG]: Bash Programming From: Devin Whalen To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Organization: Synaptic Vision Date sent: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 16:18:56 -0400 Send reply to: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Hey, > > I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this > piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: > > export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) > #export_tables[0]="hello" The second line is commented out. To make an array, another way to do it is like this: export_tables='table1 table2 table3 table4' ... assuming there is no whitespace in any of the table names. > > for table in ${export_tables[@]}; to do it my way: for table in $export_tables ; do echo $table done there is no need of a semicolon if you have a newline between the "for" and "do" statements. > do > echo "$table" > done > > However, when I run this I get the error: > import.sh: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") > Which is on the line with: > export_tables=( "cp_visa" "cp_mc" "cp_diners" "cp_amex" ) > > If I run this on my Mandrake Linux box it runs find however when I run > it on my freeBSD server I get the error. > When I run bash --version on the freeBSD box I get: > GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) > Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > Does this version not support arrays? Is there some setting I have to > edit? > > Thanks for the help. > > Later > > > -- > Devin Whalen > Programmer > Synaptic Vision Inc > Phone-(416) 539-0801 > Fax- (416) 539-8280 > 1179A King St. West > Toronto, Ontario > Suite 309 M6K 3C5 > Home-(416) 653-3982 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 01:16:39 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:16:39 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Bash Programming Message-ID: <4123C737.25670.18887C6@localhost> ------- Forwarded message follows ------- From: Paul King To: Devin Whalen Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bash Programming Send reply to: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Date sent: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:15:19 -0400 > > Bash-2.05b supports array, as evidenced by Linux box. Your scripts runs > > okey here on 2.05b and 3.0. > > Ok...I ran it with ./file.sh and it worked fine!! What is the > difference between ./ and sh? I don't want to make the same mistake > again. sh script.sh runs the script as though the line #! /bin/sh were inserted at the beginning of the script. ./script.sh runs the script as if it has execute privelages and the line #! /bin/sh is inserted at the beginning of the script. In fact, script.sh should have execute privelages if it to be run this way. > > When things like this happen I begin to realize how little I know about > computers :). > > Thanks for the help. > > > > > -- > Devin Whalen > Programmer > Synaptic Vision Inc > Phone-(416) 539-0801 > Fax- (416) 539-8280 > 1179A King St. West > Toronto, Ontario > Suite 309 M6K 3C5 > Home-(416) 653-3982 > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 05:03:04 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 01:03:04 -0400 Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <1092863559.30675.231.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <1092860336.30675.205.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040818210005.GA4407@node1.opengeometry.net> <1092863559.30675.231.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040819050304.GA6265@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Aug 18, 2004 at 05:12:40PM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote: > > Bash-2.05b supports array, as evidenced by Linux box. Your scripts > > runs okey here on 2.05b and 3.0. > > Ok...I ran it with ./file.sh and it worked fine!! What is the > difference between ./ and sh? I don't want to make the same mistake > again. > > When things like this happen I begin to realize how little I know > about computers :). On Linux, /bin/sh and /bin/bash are the same thing. Apparently not in FreeBSD. Try ls -l /bin/sh /bin/bash -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 13:48:13 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 09:48:13 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. Message-ID: <4124AF9D.3090101@deeptown.org> Hi guys, I have a lots of ideas, but only have the time to realize some of them. Therefore I want to share some of them with TLUGers, may be someone will be interested to develop it under F/OSS. The idea one: Everyone knows what some small shops most of the time have better prices for grossery, veggies, electronics, etc... My idea is to create site with comparison charts by products, with possibility to choose the products with good overall quality and price, I named it price-to-quality ratio. It means you can choose the group of the products to compare, or you can choose one broad categorized group, or some sub-groups, and choose the area you living per se, and then you will receive the table with with products as rows, and shops as columns ( or visa versa ) and at intersection will be price and link to customers feedbacks + calculation of overall quality-to-price ratio. The profiles for each shop + products can be updated by some responsible volunteers and by shop owners itself. If someone added fictitious or fraud shop, it will be removed, because prices and quality can be checked anonymously by some trusted audit group of volunteers. PS: It will help and to customers to save the money, and to small shops to attract the customers. PPS: If you like or dislike this idea - let me know here. I hope we can discuss it in this list very productively. All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 14:24:03 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:24:03 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <4123C737.11777.18887EE@localhost> References: <4123C737.11777.18887EE@localhost> Message-ID: <1092925443.16579.8.camel@192.168.1.80> > > > Hey, > > > > I am new to bash programming so I don't know what is wrong with this > > piece of code. I am trying to create an array and loop through it: > > > > export_tables=( "table1" "table2" "table3" "table4" ) > > #export_tables[0]="hello" > > The second line is commented out. > > To make an array, another way to do it is like this: > > export_tables='table1 table2 table3 table4' > > ... assuming there is no whitespace in any of the table names. > > > > > for table in ${export_tables[@]}; > > to do it my way: > > for table in $export_tables ; do > echo $table > done > > there is no need of a semicolon if you have a newline between the "for" and > "do" > statements. > > > do > > echo "$table" > > done > > > > However, when I run this I get the error: > > import.sh: 16: Syntax error: word unexpected (expecting ")") > > Which is on the line with: > > export_tables=( "cp_visa" "cp_mc" "cp_diners" "cp_amex" ) > > > > If I run this on my Mandrake Linux box it runs find however when I run > > it on my freeBSD server I get the error. > > When I run bash --version on the freeBSD box I get: > > GNU bash, version 2.05b.0(1)-release (i386-portbld-freebsd5.2) > > Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc. > > > > Does this version not support arrays? Is there some setting I have to > > edit? > > > > Thanks for the help. > > > > Later > > > > Thanks for the help everyone. I finally sat down and learned bash yesterday. Now I don't have to run to perl when a small bash script would suffice. In fact I just wrote one just now that is going to save me a lot of time :). You may notice that /bin/sh and /bin/bash are in fact the same file on your > Linux box, but that they are NOT the same on the FreeBSD box. sh and bash are > not the same thing, though any legal sh script should execute just fine in bash > (by design). The reverse, as you've found, is not true. ;) Without that little piece of info I might have gone insane yesterday trying to figure out why my code wouldn't work. Thank god for this list! Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 14:29:27 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:29:27 -0400 Subject: Talk service on RHL/FC Message-ID: <1092925766.2714.49.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi all, I've tried getting talk service running under various Red Hat (RHL7.1+/FC1) distributions a number of times over the past year. It seems to work just fine, except for the fact that both users sessions just sit at the message: [ Checking for invitation on caller's machine ] and that's it. As soon as a key is pressed, it quits to the shell. :( I've tried getting the debug messages (per the manpage) by setting server = /usr/sbin/in.talkd server_args = -d in /etc/xinetd.d/talk, but either the log is not being created or it's being written somewhere other than described (/var/log/talkd.log). Not particularly important, but somewhat annoying. If anyone has any pointers or could recommend another package for shell-chat, it would be most appreciated. :) Thanks, - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 14:28:04 2004 From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:28:04 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. Message-ID: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6E15@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Are you wanting someone to develop the web site and then offer it for others to use or are you wanting to setup a site with this functionality? Your message mentions volunteers. So I am assuming you are looking for free or a very low cost to participate in this web site as a vendor? Developing the application would be relatively easy, but hosting it would not. If the web site had low traffic it would be very easy to manage and could be hosted anywhere - even in someone's basement, but then who would want to participate in a low traffic web site. There would not be much benefit to the vendor to participate. If the web site became a high traffic site, then stability, reliability and bandwidth all become issues and there are cost associated with these issues. Also as more vendors sign up it would become a daunting task for a volunteer to police the site so you would need a reporting mechanism to report false records or a registration process that could have an approval process. My 2 cents Regards, Wil McGilvery Manager Lynch Digital Media Inc 416-744-7949 416-716-3964 (cell) 1-866-314-4678 416-744-0406? FAX www.LynchDigital.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Sergey Kuznetsov Sent: Thursday, August 19, 2004 9:48 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: I got idea to share. Hi guys, I have a lots of ideas, but only have the time to realize some of them. Therefore I want to share some of them with TLUGers, may be someone will be interested to develop it under F/OSS. The idea one: Everyone knows what some small shops most of the time have better prices for grossery, veggies, electronics, etc... My idea is to create site with comparison charts by products, with possibility to choose the products with good overall quality and price, I named it price-to-quality ratio. It means you can choose the group of the products to compare, or you can choose one broad categorized group, or some sub-groups, and choose the area you living per se, and then you will receive the table with with products as rows, and shops as columns ( or visa versa ) and at intersection will be price and link to customers feedbacks + calculation of overall quality-to-price ratio. The profiles for each shop + products can be updated by some responsible volunteers and by shop owners itself. If someone added fictitious or fraud shop, it will be removed, because prices and quality can be checked anonymously by some trusted audit group of volunteers. PS: It will help and to customers to save the money, and to small shops to attract the customers. PPS: If you like or dislike this idea - let me know here. I hope we can discuss it in this list very productively. All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 14:45:54 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:45:54 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <4124AF9D.3090101-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4124AF9D.3090101@deeptown.org> Message-ID: <4124BD22.5090403@rogers.com> The big problem is getting current, accurate data. Then the savings have to be sufficient to cover the added costs (including time) to get to the store with the lowest prices etc. Sergey Kuznetsov wrote: > Hi guys, > > I have a lots of ideas, but only have the time to realize some of them. > > Therefore I want to share some of them with TLUGers, may be someone will > be interested to > develop it under F/OSS. > > The idea one: > > Everyone knows what some small shops most of the time have better prices > for grossery, > veggies, electronics, etc... > My idea is to create site with comparison charts by products, with > possibility to choose the > products with good overall quality and price, I named it > price-to-quality ratio. > > It means you can choose the group of the products to compare, or you can > choose one broad > categorized group, or some sub-groups, and choose the area you living > per se, and then > you will receive the table with with products as rows, and shops as > columns ( or visa versa ) > and at intersection will be price and link to customers feedbacks + > calculation of overall > quality-to-price ratio. > > The profiles for each shop + products can be updated by some responsible > volunteers and > by shop owners itself. > > If someone added fictitious or fraud shop, it will be removed, because > prices and quality > can be checked anonymously by some trusted audit group of volunteers. > > PS: It will help and to customers to save the money, and to small shops > to attract the customers. > > PPS: If you like or dislike this idea - let me know here. I hope we can > discuss it in this list very > productively. > > All the Best! > Sergey. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 14:49:28 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:49:28 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6E15-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6E15@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <20040819144928.GK28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 10:28:04AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > Are you wanting someone to develop the web site and then offer it for others > to use or are you wanting to setup a site with this functionality? > > Your message mentions volunteers. So I am assuming you are looking for free > or a very low cost to participate in this web site as a vendor? > > Developing the application would be relatively easy, but hosting it would > not. > > If the web site had low traffic it would be very easy to manage and could be > hosted anywhere - even in someone's basement, but then who would want to > participate in a low traffic web site. There would not be much benefit to the > vendor to participate. > > If the web site became a high traffic site, then stability, reliability and > bandwidth all become issues and there are cost associated with these issues. For the cost-concious webmaster, there are now (relatively) cheap alternatives: http://tccp.dreaming.org/ > > Also as more vendors sign up it would become a daunting task for a volunteer > to police the site so you would need a reporting mechanism to report false > records or a registration process that could have an approval process. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 14:50:55 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 10:50:55 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6E15-49iW0tF5bQUrdqLDzsA3A0qvI0cuIMSQ@public.gmane.org> References: <70C7E310DB3B5F498D4F6AD8FBBFCC510F6E15@lynchmail2.lynch.msft> Message-ID: <1092927054.2714.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> [...] > Your message mentions volunteers. So I am assuming you are looking > for free or a very low cost to participate in this web site as a > vendor? > > Developing the application would be relatively easy, but hosting it > would not. > > If the web site had low traffic [...] > If the web site became a high traffic site, then stability, > reliability and bandwidth all become issues and there are cost > associated with these issues. One of the things that interest me about the use of f/loss in business is that, by it's very nature, f/loss is about giving and sharing. Not all businesses are software houses, so aiding the development of open source software is not really an option. There are other ways they might give back to open source though, I think. Something along the lines of "adopt-a-project" might work here, where an adopting business hosts (but does not have absolute control of) the site. Just a thought. - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 15:14:59 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 11:14:59 -0400 Subject: On the topic of BASH loops Message-ID: <41248BB3.26868.4880F1D@localhost> The recent discussion got me thinking about BASH loops. I use them ad nauseam to download radio programs of certain dates and times from radio station archives (such as Pacifica). The biggest issue for me was that if I had multiple dates, I could not place them in an array. For example: dates=("Mon Aug 16" "Tue Aug 17" "Wed Aug 18") for i in ${dates[@]} ; do echo ${i} done gives me the same output as if I had declared my array as: dates='Mon Aug 16 Tue Aug 17 Wed Aug 18' for i in $dates ; do echo ${i} done OUTPUT: Mon Aug 17 Tue Aug 17 Wed Aug 18 YECCH! The only way I could declare a BASH array in any useful sense is to do it explicitly (as taken from a script that just ran successfully): date[1]='Mon 2004 08 16' date[2]='Tue 2004 08 17' date[3]='Wed 2004 08 18' for i in 1 2 3 ; do echo ${date[$i]} done OUTPUT: Mon 2004 08 16 Tue 2004 08 17 Wed 2004 08 18 Much better! Notice I could have used any three index values that darned well pleased me. If anyone can come up with a better way in BASH to declare an array of strings which have whitespace in them, please suggest something. Paul ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 16:33:42 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 12:33:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: system backup In-Reply-To: <20040818174720.GI12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040816114930.GP576@butters.WorkGroup> <20040816135209.GF12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040817142337.GH12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20040818174720.GI12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 18 Aug 2004, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Well I have tob for managing that part of backups. I decided afio was a > nice archive format for backups, since it compresses each file inside > the archive, rather than applying compression to the archive after > making it. This way seeking to a given file is fast, since it doesn't > have to decompress the file to seek, only the wanted file data. On tape One other advantage that "compress then archive" has over "archive then compress" is to do with a corrupt file. If you archive then compress, a corruption anywhere in the file pretty much toasts the file. If you compress then archive the fault tolerance is much higher. This comes at a price of course - better compression is normally obtained when doing archiving then compression. Zip is notable as a tool which compresses then archives. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 17:30:00 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 13:30:00 -0400 Subject: On the topic of BASH loops In-Reply-To: <41248BB3.26868.4880F1D@localhost> References: <41248BB3.26868.4880F1D@localhost> Message-ID: <20040819173000.GA841@node1.opengeometry.net> On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 11:14:59AM -0400, Paul King wrote: > The recent discussion got me thinking about BASH loops. I use them ad nauseam > to download radio programs of certain dates and times from radio station > archives (such as Pacifica). > > The biggest issue for me was that if I had multiple dates, I could not place > them in an array. For example: > > dates=("Mon Aug 16" "Tue Aug 17" "Wed Aug 18") > > for i in ${dates[@]} ; do > echo ${i} > done Try for i in "${date[@]}"; do echo "${i}" done Without the double quote, shell is splitting the line on whitespace, like for i in Mon Aug 16 ... -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 00:18:42 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 20:18:42 -0400 (EDT) Subject: On the topic of BASH loops In-Reply-To: <41248BB3.26868.4880F1D@localhost> References: <41248BB3.26868.4880F1D@localhost> Message-ID: dates="12 Oct:13 Oct:14 Oct" OIFS=$IFS IFS=":" for f in $dates; do echo -e "A date:\t$f" done export IFS=$OIFS Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 18:39:11 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 19 Aug 2004 14:39:11 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <4124AF9D.3090101-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4124AF9D.3090101@deeptown.org> Message-ID: Sergey Kuznetsov writes: > PPS: If you like or dislike this idea - let me know here. I hope we can > discuss it in this list very productively. What I'd like to see is a mail alert feature where you can register the products that you like and you could get an e-mail when they go on sale. There are some things that I stock up on when they go on sale [family of seven and all]. This feature may P.O. some retailers, though. I think that they may view it as cherry-picking. -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 19:07:32 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 15:07:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: On the topic of BASH loops In-Reply-To: <41248BB3.26868.4880F1D@localhost> References: <41248BB3.26868.4880F1D@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Paul King wrote: > The recent discussion got me thinking about BASH loops. I use them ad nauseam > to download radio programs of certain dates and times from radio station > archives (such as Pacifica). > > The biggest issue for me was that if I had multiple dates, I could not place > them in an array. For example: > > dates=("Mon Aug 16" "Tue Aug 17" "Wed Aug 18") > > for i in ${dates[@]} ; do You forgot the quotes: for i in "${dates[@]}" ; do > echo ${i} > done > > gives me the same output as if I had declared my array as: > > dates='Mon Aug 16 Tue Aug 17 Wed Aug 18' > > for i in $dates ; do > echo ${i} > done > > OUTPUT: > Mon > Aug > 17 > Tue > Aug > 17 > Wed > Aug > 18 > > YECCH! > > The only way I could declare a BASH array in any useful sense is to do it > explicitly (as taken from a script that just ran successfully): > > date[1]='Mon 2004 08 16' > date[2]='Tue 2004 08 17' > date[3]='Wed 2004 08 18' > > for i in 1 2 3 ; do > echo ${date[$i]} > done > > OUTPUT: > Mon 2004 08 16 > Tue 2004 08 17 > Wed 2004 08 18 > > Much better! Or: printf "%s\n" "${date[@]}" > Notice I could have used any three index values that darned well pleased me. If > anyone can come up with a better way in BASH to declare an array of strings > which have whitespace in them, please suggest something. The method you use to store them in the array is irrelevant. You get the ouput you want if you use quotes. You can also add elements to the array with: unset date date[${#date[@]}]='Mon 2004 08 16' date[${#date[@]}]='Tue 2004 08 17' date[${#date[@]}]='Wed 2004 08 18' -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 18:32:11 2004 From: fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org (fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 14:32:11 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <4124AF9D.3090101-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <4124AF9D.3090101@deeptown.org> Message-ID: <20040819190848.58BC51BAFAA@outbox.allstream.net> Maybe this could be implemented as a peer to peer type of application with some "Napster like" search software overseeing the whole show. Maybe it could be implemented in the form of a small local network appliance which can be programmed to grab relevant pricing info from a Net broadcast "ticker tape type" pricing stream ... similar technology to Internet radio. Maybe it could be implemented as a distributed network of specialized appliances that reside at the grocery stores that can be easily updated at that end and can be easily queried through some wget like software. Just some off the wall brainstorming thoughts. bob On August 19, 2004 09:48 am, you wrote: > Hi guys, > > I have a lots of ideas, but only have the time to realize some of them. > > Therefore I want to share some of them with TLUGers, may be someone will > be interested to > develop it under F/OSS. > > The idea one: > > Everyone knows what some small shops most of the time have better prices > for grossery, > veggies, electronics, etc... > My idea is to create site with comparison charts by products, with > possibility to choose the > products with good overall quality and price, I named it > price-to-quality ratio. > > It means you can choose the group of the products to compare, or you can > choose one broad > categorized group, or some sub-groups, and choose the area you living > per se, and then > you will receive the table with with products as rows, and shops as > columns ( or visa versa ) > and at intersection will be price and link to customers feedbacks + > calculation of overall > quality-to-price ratio. > > The profiles for each shop + products can be updated by some responsible > volunteers and > by shop owners itself. > > If someone added fictitious or fraud shop, it will be removed, because > prices and quality > can be checked anonymously by some trusted audit group of volunteers. > > PS: It will help and to customers to save the money, and to small shops > to attract the customers. > > PPS: If you like or dislike this idea - let me know here. I hope we can > discuss it in this list very > productively. > > All the Best! > Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 20:10:31 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:10:31 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. Message-ID: <41250937.9080706@deeptown.org> Wil McGilvery wrote: >Are you wanting someone to develop the web site and then offer it for others to use or are you wanting to setup a site with this functionality? > > No. I meant non-profit project,or near non-profit, just to cover collocation costs. I can develop it in short time, but I don't have a time, because I am doing other huge open source project, who takes all my free time. >Your message mentions volunteers. So I am assuming you are looking for free or a very low cost to participate in this web site as a vendor? > > To be honest, I just wanted to share the idea, because I think this idea will benefit lots of people, who wants to save some money on grossery. I want to make their life a little bit easier. I am not a vendor of any kind. I am a programmer, who still have a programming and software architecture as a passion for last 21 year. Probably I explained it not in correct form. >Developing the application would be relatively easy, but hosting it would not. > >If the web site had low traffic it would be very easy to manage and could be hosted anywhere - even in someone's basement, but then who would want to participate in a low traffic web site. There would not be much benefit to the vendor to participate. > > > For some period of time until traffic will be more than 25Gb I can host it even on my web-server. >Also as more vendors sign up it would become a daunting task for a volunteer to police the site so you would need a reporting mechanism to report false records or a registration process that could have an approval process. > > > I meant to have some policy how to police the vendors. The validity of the vendor's entries must be provided by the vendor itself. First of all it's some kind of advertising of the vendor itself. Second of all you and vendor will have some feedback from the customers who bought some grossery or any kind of goods from that vendor. Users, who will be registered on that site will have possibility to rate the product. If user has been caught on results fraud for some vendors, all his previous ratings for all vendors will be invalid and that user will be prohibited for future ratings. >My 2 cents > > > Thanks for feedback! All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 20:10:57 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:10:57 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. Message-ID: <41250951.1030301@deeptown.org> James Knott wrote: > The big problem is getting current, accurate data. Then the savings > have to be sufficient to cover the added costs (including time) to get > to the store with the lowest prices etc. You can narrow the search by area you live, or choose multiple areas to check, in this case you could reduce your gas spendings =) All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 20:12:10 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:12:10 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. Message-ID: <4125099A.8070900@deeptown.org> Taavi, Thanks a lot for the link! All the Best! Sergey. Taavi Burns wrote: >On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 10:28:04AM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote: > > >>Are you wanting someone to develop the web site and then offer it for others >>to use or are you wanting to setup a site with this functionality? >> >>Your message mentions volunteers. So I am assuming you are looking for free >>or a very low cost to participate in this web site as a vendor? >> >>Developing the application would be relatively easy, but hosting it would >>not. >> >>If the web site had low traffic it would be very easy to manage and could be >>hosted anywhere - even in someone's basement, but then who would want to >>participate in a low traffic web site. There would not be much benefit to the >>vendor to participate. >> >>If the web site became a high traffic site, then stability, reliability and >>bandwidth all become issues and there are cost associated with these issues. >> >> > >For the cost-concious webmaster, there are now (relatively) cheap alternatives: >http://tccp.dreaming.org/ > > > >>Also as more vendors sign up it would become a daunting task for a volunteer >>to police the site so you would need a reporting mechanism to report false >>records or a registration process that could have an approval process. >> >> > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 20:14:23 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:14:23 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. Message-ID: <41250A1F.8070101@deeptown.org> Mattew, Good idea! It nice to have. I didn't think about it. PS: BTW, that does mean P.O. acronym? All he Best! Sergey. G. Matthew Rice wrote: >Sergey Kuznetsov writes: > > >>PPS: If you like or dislike this idea - let me know here. I hope we can >>discuss it in this list very productively. >> >> > >What I'd like to see is a mail alert feature where you can register the >products that you like and you could get an e-mail when they go on sale. >There are some things that I stock up on when they go on sale [family of >seven and all]. > >This feature may P.O. some retailers, though. I think that they may view it >as cherry-picking. > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 20:30:05 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 16:30:05 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <20040819190848.58BC51BAFAA-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <4124AF9D.3090101@deeptown.org> <20040819190848.58BC51BAFAA@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <41250DCD.5060400@deeptown.org> Good idea for network appliances! It means if any product will have RFID and fridge will have RFID reader, it can automatically order some grossery based on list you specified for each day, and based on some price, quality and vendor preference criteria. All the Best! Sergey, fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: >Maybe this could be implemented as a peer to peer type of application with >some "Napster like" search software overseeing the whole show. > >Maybe it could be implemented in the form of a small local network appliance >which can be programmed to grab relevant pricing info from a Net broadcast >"ticker tape type" pricing stream ... similar technology to Internet radio. > >Maybe it could be implemented as a distributed network of specialized >appliances that reside at the grocery stores that can be easily updated at >that end and can be easily queried through some wget like software. > >Just some off the wall brainstorming thoughts. > >bob > >On August 19, 2004 09:48 am, you wrote: > > >>Hi guys, >> >>I have a lots of ideas, but only have the time to realize some of them. >> >>Therefore I want to share some of them with TLUGers, may be someone will >>be interested to >>develop it under F/OSS. >> >>The idea one: >> >>Everyone knows what some small shops most of the time have better prices >>for grossery, >>veggies, electronics, etc... >>My idea is to create site with comparison charts by products, with >>possibility to choose the >>products with good overall quality and price, I named it >>price-to-quality ratio. >> >>It means you can choose the group of the products to compare, or you can >>choose one broad >>categorized group, or some sub-groups, and choose the area you living >>per se, and then >>you will receive the table with with products as rows, and shops as >>columns ( or visa versa ) >>and at intersection will be price and link to customers feedbacks + >>calculation of overall >>quality-to-price ratio. >> >>The profiles for each shop + products can be updated by some responsible >>volunteers and >>by shop owners itself. >> >>If someone added fictitious or fraud shop, it will be removed, because >>prices and quality >>can be checked anonymously by some trusted audit group of volunteers. >> >>PS: It will help and to customers to save the money, and to small shops >>to attract the customers. >> >>PPS: If you like or dislike this idea - let me know here. I hope we can >>discuss it in this list very >>productively. >> >>All the Best! >>Sergey. >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 22:00:04 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 19 Aug 2004 18:00:04 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <41250A1F.8070101-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <41250A1F.8070101@deeptown.org> Message-ID: Sergey Kuznetsov writes: > PS: BTW, that does mean P.O. acronym? Piss Off. -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 22:06:43 2004 From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (G. Matthew Rice) Date: 19 Aug 2004 18:06:43 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: References: <41250A1F.8070101@deeptown.org> Message-ID: "G. Matthew Rice" writes: > Sergey Kuznetsov writes: > > PS: BTW, that does mean P.O. acronym? > > Piss Off. Umm, I meant that this is what P.O. stand for, of course. It wasn't directed at you ;) Regards, -- g. matthew rice starnix, thornhill, ontario, ca phone: 905-771-0017 x242 gpg id: EF9AAD20 http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 23:08:20 2004 From: miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jerome Miecznikowski) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:08:20 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. Message-ID: Hi, I just downloaded, built, and installed GNU parted. But when I try to run it I get the message: parted: error while loading shared libraries: libparted-1.6.12: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory That's strange! libparted-1.6.12 is a symbolic link in /usr/local/lib ... and it resolves OK. I checked my /etc/ld.so.conf and it does indeed contain /usr/local/lib: /usr/local/lib /usr/X11R6/lib /usr/i386-slackware-linux/lib /opt/kde/lib /usr/lib/qt/lib Any thoughts on what might be messing up? Jerome -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 23:26:59 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:26:59 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 07:08:20PM -0400, Jerome Miecznikowski wrote: > Hi, > > I just downloaded, built, and installed GNU parted. But when I try to > run it I get the message: > > parted: error while loading shared libraries: libparted-1.6.12: cannot > open shared object file: No such file or directory > > That's strange! libparted-1.6.12 is a symbolic link in /usr/local/lib > ... and it resolves OK. I checked my /etc/ld.so.conf and it does I'll assume that that means that you ran ldconfig after installing. Have you checked the file permissions on the library? I found a few on my system the other day that were -r--------, and therefore quite unuseable by anyone but root (the owner). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 19 23:34:58 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 19:34:58 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: References: <41250A1F.8070101@deeptown.org> Message-ID: <41253922.6010808@deeptown.org> G. Matthew Rice wrote: >"G. Matthew Rice" writes: > > >>Sergey Kuznetsov writes: >> >> >>>PS: BTW, that does mean P.O. acronym? >>> >>> >>Piss Off. >> >> > >Umm, I meant that this is what P.O. stand for, of course. >It wasn't directed at you ;) > >Regards, > > Don't be worry, I got it right =) All the Best! Sergey. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 01:09:48 2004 From: miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jerome Miecznikowski) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:09:48 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: <20040819232659.GQ28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: Taavi, Sadly, permission are OK. For the moment, the work-about is to compile everything in statically. So thing are sort-of working :-( Btw, from your example, libs need to be executable, so not even the owner could use them in this case. Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Jerome On 19-Aug-04, at 7:26 PM, Taavi Burns wrote: > > Have you checked the file permissions on the library? I found a few > on my system the other day that were -r--------, and therefore quite > unuseable by anyone but root (the owner). -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 01:22:47 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:22:47 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: References: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040820012246.GT28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 09:09:48PM -0400, Jerome Miecznikowski wrote: > Sadly, permission are OK. For the moment, the work-about is to compile > everything in statically. So thing are sort-of working :-( Btw, from > your example, libs need to be executable, so not even the owner could > use them in this case. I think that in my case they were .a libs for development, so I was having trouble compiling applications that needed the libs at compile time, not runtime. But still, it was worth a shot. :) > Anyway, thanks for the suggestion. Yup, np. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 01:31:15 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:31:15 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Aug 24th. NewTLUG meeting: "X Windo Message-ID: <41251C23.24186.6BC43B5@localhost> > > This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues June 22nd., at Seneca College. JUNE 22? This is August. You sure you don't mean Aug 22? (That's a Sunday, though). Paul > more info below... > > > Date: Tue, June 22nd, > Time: 7 - 10pm > > Topic: X Windows Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator > See Details below... > > Presenter: Andrew Howlett > Andrew is a member of the Bruce Grey Linux Users' Group > (bglug.org), centered in Owen Sound. Many or you will > remember Andrew's wonderful presentation last August on > Linux Games. > > Location: room 1208 (SEQ building) Seneca College > SEQ building belongs to Seneca College and is a part of > the Seneca at York Campus, which is physically located just > south of York University, at Keele/Steeles. > > Directions: For detailed directions and info on public transit, please > see: http://cs.senecac.on.ca/~scs/seneca-directions.html > > Parking: Paid parking is available on campus. > > > Topic Details: X Windows Multiple Arcade Machine Emulator > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Space Invaders, Asteroids, Missile Command, Galaxians ... > > If you remember those games then you are at least as old as me. And you > are probably interested in XMAME. XMAME is an emulator which runs on > linux and X-Windows. Get the ROM from the old arcade game, feed it into > XMAME, and you can play the game exactly as it looked and sounded years > ago. > > This demonstration and tutorial will show you how to install XMAME and > how to run it from the command line interpreter. We will try a GUI > interface (gxmame). And finally we will show how to make your own > live-boot XMAME cd's using KnoppiXMAME. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Herb Richter > Richter Equipment, Markham, Ontario > http://PartsAndService.com > http://PartsAndService.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. http://tlug.ss.org > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml ------- End of forwarded message ------- ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 01:42:29 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 21:42:29 -0400 Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Aug 24th. NewTLUG meeting: "X Windo In-Reply-To: <41251C23.24186.6BC43B5@localhost> References: <41251C23.24186.6BC43B5@localhost> Message-ID: <41255705.7030708@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: >>This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues June 22nd., at Seneca College. > > > JUNE 22? This is August. You sure you don't mean Aug 22? (That's a Sunday, > though). Perhaps he's a tad late, in getting the notice out. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 06:01:31 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 02:01:31 -0400 Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <1092925443.16579.8.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <4123C737.11777.18887EE@localhost> <1092925443.16579.8.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <20040820060131.GA29196@m1800> On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 10:24:03AM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote > Thanks for the help everyone. I finally sat down and learned bash > yesterday. Now I don't have to run to perl when a small bash script > would suffice. In fact I just wrote one just now that is going to > save me a lot of time :). perl is an OK operating system, but it lacks a lightweight programming language . -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 14:27:14 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:27:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <20040820060131.GA29196@m1800> References: <4123C737.11777.18887EE@localhost> <1092925443.16579.8.camel@192.168.1.80> <20040820060131.GA29196@m1800> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 10:24:03AM -0400, Devin Whalen wrote > >> Thanks for the help everyone. I finally sat down and learned bash >> yesterday. Now I don't have to run to perl when a small bash script >> would suffice. In fact I just wrote one just now that is going to >> save me a lot of time :). > > perl is an OK operating system, but it lacks a lightweight programming > language . Isn't bash the third stage bootstrap program that starts up the emacs or perl operating systems ? ;-) The memory footprint and startup time of a simple script like 'hello, world' would do any VB version full honors. ;-( Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 14:16:09 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:16:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Jerome Miecznikowski wrote: > I just downloaded, built, and installed GNU parted. But when I try to run it > I get the message: > > > parted: error while loading shared libraries: libparted-1.6.12: cannot open > shared object file: No such file or directory type: ldd `which parted` and see that the library is where ldd says it's looking for it. Did you install it by hand or did you use the original install script ? Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 14:23:19 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:23:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: References: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Jerome Miecznikowski wrote: > Taavi, > > Sadly, permission are OK. For the moment, the work-about is to compile > everything in statically. So thing are sort-of working :-( Btw, from your > example, libs need to be executable, so not even the owner could use them in > this case. Minimum permissions for library are r not rx. Did you run ldconfig after make install ? parted should only be used by root anyway, the binary and library permissions may reflect this. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 12:46:26 2004 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:46:26 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? Message-ID: <20040820084626.52a62eb5.rob@cheapersafer.com> Does anyone know a good place to get old & used computer books in or around Metro Toronto? Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 12:46:23 2004 From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 08:46:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Aug 24th. NewTLUG meeting: "X Windo In-Reply-To: <41251C23.24186.6BC43B5@localhost> References: <41251C23.24186.6BC43B5@localhost> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Aug 2004, Paul King wrote: > > > > This month's NewTLUG meeting will be held Tues June 22nd., at Seneca College. > > JUNE 22? This is August. You sure you don't mean Aug 22? (That's a Sunday, > though). > > Paul Thanks, ...it's Tues Aug 24th. Herb... -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 13:31:04 2004 From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:31:04 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? In-Reply-To: <20040820084626.52a62eb5.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040820084626.52a62eb5.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <4125FD18.4000203@deeptown.org> Hi Rob, PCMANIA. 50 meters to south by east side from corner of Colledge and Spadina. All the Best! Sergey. Rob Sutherland wrote: >Does anyone know a good place to get old & used computer books in or around Metro Toronto? > >Rob > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 13:35:40 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 09:35:40 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? In-Reply-To: <20040820084626.52a62eb5.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040820084626.52a62eb5.rob@cheapersafer.com> Message-ID: <4125FE2C.2070808@rogers.com> Rob Sutherland wrote: > Does anyone know a good place to get old & used computer books in or around Metro Toronto? > > Rob > I've picked up a few books at PCMANIAK. For example I recently bought "Linux System Administration" for $5, Postfix - $5 and the O'Reilly "Ethernet" book for $10. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 13:54:42 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 20 Aug 2004 09:54:42 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <4123C737.25670.18887C6@localhost> References: <4123C737.25670.18887C6@localhost> Message-ID: "Paul King" writes: > From: Paul King > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bash Programming > To: Devin Whalen > Send reply to: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org > Date sent: Wed, 18 Aug 2004 21:15:19 -0400 > > > > Bash-2.05b supports array, as evidenced by Linux box. Your scripts runs > > > okey here on 2.05b and 3.0. > > > > Ok...I ran it with ./file.sh and it worked fine!! What is the > > difference between ./ and sh? I don't want to make the same mistake > > again. > > sh script.sh > runs the script as though the line > #! /bin/sh > were inserted at the beginning of the script. This assumes /bin/sh is the first instance of sh in your PATH which is usually but not always the case. If your PATH was: /usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin and /usr/local/bin/sh exists and is executable, "sh script.sh" would be equivalent to running "/usr/local/bin/sh script.sh". > ./script.sh > runs the script as if it has execute privelages and the line > #! /bin/sh > is inserted at the beginning of the script. In fact, script.sh should have > execute privelages if it to be run this way. Only if the script doesn't begin with "#!". IOW, the default behaviour (of running the script with /bin/sh) is only activated if the script doesn't already specify an interpreter via a "#!" first line. For example, if the first line of the script was: #!/bin/cat running "./script.sh" is equivalent to: /bin/cat ./script.sh -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 14:15:37 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:15:37 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Bash Programming In-Reply-To: References: <4123C737.25670.18887C6@localhost> Message-ID: <20040820141537.GJ12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 09:54:42AM -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > This assumes /bin/sh is the first instance of sh in your PATH which is > usually but not always the case. If your PATH was: > > /usr/local/bin:/bin:/usr/bin > > and /usr/local/bin/sh exists and is executable, "sh script.sh" would be > equivalent to running "/usr/local/bin/sh script.sh". Yeah of course. Assuming /bin/sh is bash is not safe. On Debian policy states /bin/sh can be any posix compliant shell (ash, dassh, bash, etc). There are occationally bugs found where someone used bashisms in a file that was supposed to be a shell script and work with any posix shell. > Only if the script doesn't begin with "#!". IOW, the default behaviour (of > running the script with /bin/sh) is only activated if the script doesn't > already specify an interpreter via a "#!" first line. For example, if the > first line of the script was: I didn't think there was a default behaviour. Either a file is a known binary file format which the sytem knows how to execute (and there are ways to register more with the misc bin format system so you could say, run java applets by just typing their name and having it launch in a jvm). If it is NOT a binary format that is known, it checks for a #! line and does whatever it says with that file as argument in that case. > #!/bin/cat > > running "./script.sh" is equivalent to: > > /bin/cat ./script.sh Hmm, self displaying files that must start with a specific line. Not sure that's so useful :) How about /usr/bin/less. Self paging files. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 14:23:56 2004 From: miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jerome Miecznikowski) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:23:56 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: References: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: <920F8980-F2B4-11D8-AD85-000D93366B74@sympatico.ca> On 20-Aug-04, at 10:23 AM, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Minimum permissions for library are r not rx. Did you run ldconfig > after make install ? parted should only be used by root anyway, the > binary and library permissions may reflect this. Whoops, my mistake about the permission ... sorry Taavi. > ldd `which parted` > > and see that the library is where ldd says it's looking for it. Did > you install it by hand or did you use the original install script ? Ok, for the checklist: installed with 'make install', checked permissions on the lib, ran ldconfig (as root), ran parted as root, ldd still reports: libparted-1.6.12 => not found Hm, two things I should add are that there are no spurious environment variables that I'm setting and that libparted is the only lib in /usr/local/lib (/etc/ld.so.conf does contain /usr/local/lib) A quick peek with objdump also shows that no path is specified for the lib in parted. It seemed the problem is likely that the dynamic linker just isn't looking at /usr/local/lib ... so I ran strace on konsole to watch something that works with a non-standard lib location (/opt tree) ... and found that on my system, for konsole the linker is using the ld.so.preload but not ld.so.cache. And it works. But if I run strace on parted, it uses the ld.so.cache, and doesn't search on *any* location from /etc/ld.so.conf ... At this point I regenerated the ld.so.cache file again, but no change. Again, any thoughts? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 14:28:27 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 10:28:27 -0400 Subject: (Fwd) Re:Bash Programming In-Reply-To: <20040820141537.GJ12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <4123C737.25670.18887C6@localhost> <20040820141537.GJ12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040820142827.GV28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 10:15:37AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 09:54:42AM -0400, Tim Writer wrote: > > #!/bin/cat > > > > running "./script.sh" is equivalent to: > > > > /bin/cat ./script.sh > > Hmm, self displaying files that must start with a specific line. Not > sure that's so useful :) How about /usr/bin/less. Self paging files. It's certainly the easiest way to write a program that prints out its own source code. :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jhagborg-RECR7kQ19O0 at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 17:23:26 2004 From: jhagborg-RECR7kQ19O0 at public.gmane.org (jhagborg-RECR7kQ19O0 at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:23:26 -0400 Subject: Old and used books Message-ID: <13323c56f4644eb7abad285a9a0bdb3f.jhagborg@ica.net> i have a few books on computers. They tend to be obselete as well as old and used! List the subject matter of your interests and I may be able to help. John Hagborg (416 491 0832) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 17:38:34 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:38:34 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: <920F8980-F2B4-11D8-AD85-000D93366B74-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <920F8980-F2B4-11D8-AD85-000D93366B74@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <20040820173833.GK12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 10:23:56AM -0400, Jerome Miecznikowski wrote: > Ok, for the checklist: installed with 'make install', checked > permissions on the lib, ran ldconfig (as root), ran parted as root, ldd > still reports: > libparted-1.6.12 => not found What is the excact error message? If I rename the libparted on this system I gues: libparted-1.6.so.0 => not found That looks more like a library name that what your line has. > Hm, two things I should add are that there are no spurious environment > variables that I'm setting and that libparted is the only lib in > /usr/local/lib (/etc/ld.so.conf does contain /usr/local/lib) A quick > peek with objdump also shows that no path is specified for the lib in > parted. > > It seemed the problem is likely that the dynamic linker just isn't > looking at /usr/local/lib ... so I ran strace on konsole to watch > something that works with a non-standard lib location (/opt tree) ... > and found that on my system, for konsole the linker is using the > ld.so.preload but not ld.so.cache. And it works. But if I run strace > on parted, it uses the ld.so.cache, and doesn't search on *any* > location from /etc/ld.so.conf ... At this point I regenerated the > ld.so.cache file again, but no change. > > Again, any thoughts? What is in /usr/local/lib with parted anywhere in the name? Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cfriedt-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 18:31:00 2004 From: cfriedt-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Christopher Friedt) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 14:31:00 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? Message-ID: <262d56261b2d.261b2d262d56@ryerson.ca> There are quite often many used computer books for incredible deals around spadina & college. And also if you ever see a sign that says "80% off used books" or something to that extent in a variety store even, they usually are selling used books in great condition for $20. Incidentally, this isn't Rob Sutherland from burlington is it? ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Sutherland Date: Friday, August 20, 2004 8:46 am Subject: [TLUG]: Old & used computer books? > Does anyone know a good place to get old & used computer books in > or around Metro Toronto? > > Rob > > -- > Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org > Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 19:19:11 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:19:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: reSource Sale. Message-ID: <20040820191911.65226.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Just a brief heads up, reSource is planning to do a sale of new/used hardware/software at 169 Eastern Avenue, Saturday, September 11th from 10:00 AM to 4:00 PM. Entry fee will be $5, and tables will be available for $15, for more details drop me an e-mail, or Ron Smith (rsmith-mM4Wr0jTRcc at public.gmane.org). Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 19:40:40 2004 From: miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jerome Miecznikowski) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:40:40 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: <20040820173833.GK12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <920F8980-F2B4-11D8-AD85-000D93366B74@sympatico.ca> <20040820173833.GK12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: On 20-Aug-04, at 1:38 PM, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > If I rename the libparted on this system I gues: > libparted-1.6.so.0 => not found > > That looks more like a library name that what your line has. Ahah, right you are. ldconfig wasn't picking up libparted-1.6.12 because ".so" wasn't in the filename. Rename the file and everything works. Well, the right thing to do is to fix the build, but I'll do that later :) thx Jerome -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 19:41:46 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 15:41:46 -0400 Subject: reSource Sale. In-Reply-To: <20040820191911.65226.qmail-iE2/U85ktn6B9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040820191911.65226.qmail@web88204.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040820194146.GA11954@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 03:19:11PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Just a brief heads up, reSource is planning to do a > sale of new/used hardware/software at 169 Eastern > Avenue, Saturday, September 11th from 10:00 AM to 4:00 > PM. Entry fee will be $5, and tables will be available > for $15, for more details drop me an e-mail, or Ron > Smith (rsmith-mM4Wr0jTRcc at public.gmane.org). Are there any old laptops being sold? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 20:03:41 2004 From: miecznik-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jerome Miecznikowski) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 16:03:41 -0400 Subject: Can't find library. In-Reply-To: References: <20040819232659.GQ28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <920F8980-F2B4-11D8-AD85-000D93366B74@sympatico.ca> <20040820173833.GK12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <082CFB50-F2E4-11D8-AD85-000D93366B74@sympatico.ca> On 20-Aug-04, at 3:40 PM, Jerome Miecznikowski wrote: > filename. Rename the file and everything works. Well, the right > thing to do is to fix the build, but I'll do that later :) Hm, I should be a bit clearer about the hack, in case someone else runs into this problem. Just renaming the file won't work on it's own. What you have to do is make a hard link: ln libBadName.1.1.1 libFoo.so Now, ldconfig will read libFoo.so and put it in it's cache. But not quite: it'll use libFoo.so's internal SONAME string "libBadName.1.1.1" as the key instead of the filename "libFoo.so". So now your cache will hold: libBadName.1.1.1 (libc6) => /path/to/libBadName.1.1.1 ... which is what you wanted. Jerome -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 23:03:29 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:03:29 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? In-Reply-To: <262d56261b2d.261b2d262d56-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <262d56261b2d.261b2d262d56@ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <20040820230329.95C4745EE@cbbrowne.com> > There are quite often many used computer books for incredible deals > around spadina & college. And also if you ever see a sign that says > "80% off used books" or something to that extent in a variety store > even, they usually are selling used books in great condition for $20. What I find more interesting are the places that collect up textbooks. There's a little place in Agincourt Mall not far from where I live that periodically gets a load of that sort of thing in. I got an _excellent_ book on Nonlinear Programming (Gill and Murray) for a few bucks, and a copy of the 7th edition of Date's _Introduction to Database Systems_ for about $20, both of which make the typical SAMS castoffs look pretty sick. -- If this was helpful, rate me http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/ "I promise you a police car on every sidewalk." -- M. Barry Mayor of Washington, DC -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 23:54:34 2004 From: Scott.Elcomb-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Scott Elcomb) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:54:34 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? In-Reply-To: <262d56261b2d.261b2d262d56-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <262d56261b2d.261b2d262d56@ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <1093046072.11236.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2004-08-20 at 14:31, Christopher Friedt wrote: > There are quite often many used computer books for incredible deals around spadina & college. And also if you ever see a sign that says "80% off used books" or something to that extent in a variety store even, they usually are selling used books in great condition for $20. > > Incidentally, this isn't Rob Sutherland from burlington is it? Grand & Toy (in Hamilton) started putting discount textbooks at the front of the stores a couple years ago. I imagine they would carry some closer to the GTA as well, since the stock shifts at the stores here fairly consistently. (Available titles have a half-life of about 2 months.) Most titles are below the $25 mark. The best deal for me, I suppose, was "Linux Graphics Programming with SVGALib [(c)2000], which ran a whole $4.99 - Scott. -- https://sourceforge.net/projects/avalonweb/ PGP Public Key: 1024D/98125E76 2004-03-21 Scott Elcomb (dL33T) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 19:35:26 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:35:26 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: <20040816134500.GD12571-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a@mail.look.ca> <20040816134500.GD12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20040820193526.5e6fb0d8@mail.look.ca> At 09:45 AM 2004/08/16 -0400, lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) wrote: (snip) >Of course most C++ compilers I have seen also tend to generate much >bigger slower code than the equivalant C compiler. My brother is on the team at IBM Research Laboratories to optimize code from compilers. If I understand him correctly, C++ has more generalized cases to consider, and cannot be optimized well unless more information is retained from initial to final phases of compilation, so that ambiguities can be resolved. An approach to optimizing C destroys information after it is no longer necessary. Although it is not necessary for optimization of C, it is necessary for proper optimization of C++. At the phase where the information is needed, it has already been destroyed. It is politically difficult to tell people to retain information their work has no need for, just because the work at a later phase of compilation requires it. When one organization innovates by retaining the information so that it can be used later in the compilation, then I imagine others will follow, and we will see an industry-wide improvement in execution speed of C++ programmes. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 ------------------------- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 20 19:49:02 2004 From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 19:49:02 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: <80C0EC1D-EF8D-11D8-95CC-00050249A5C8-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> <80C0EC1D-EF8D-11D8-95CC-00050249A5C8@istop.com> Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20040820194902.565f75ea@mail.look.ca> At 10:06 AM 2004/08/16 -0400, you wrote: >On Aug 15, 2004, at 10:52 PM, James McIntosh wrote: > >> Does anyone know of a group which provides assistance >> to C or C++ programmers ? > >I'm wondering what you mean by 'group'. Are you looking for a mailing >list, interactive web site, newsgroup, physical get-togethers...? > >Certainly some of those exist -- newsgroups, at least. > >........................ >Phillip Mills >Multi-platform software development >(416) 224-0714 For now, mailing list(s), and physical get-together(s). Believe it or not, I don't know how to use newsgroups, and am not sure I know what you mean by interactive Web site. Jim McIntosh 416-292-8126 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 21 01:06:49 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 20 Aug 2004 21:06:49 -0400 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20040820193526.5e6fb0d8-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040815225200.5fcfb3e8@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040816060055.59e7362a@mail.look.ca> <3.0.6.16.20040820193526.5e6fb0d8@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <20040821010649.GL12571@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 20, 2004 at 07:35:26PM +0000, James McIntosh wrote: > My brother is on the team at IBM Research Laboratories to optimize code > from compilers. > > If I understand him correctly, C++ has more generalized cases to consider, > and cannot be optimized well unless more information is retained from > initial to final phases of compilation, so that ambiguities can be resolved. > > An approach to optimizing C destroys information after it is no longer > necessary. > > Although it is not necessary for optimization of C, it is necessary for > proper optimization of C++. At the phase where the information is needed, > it has already been destroyed. > > It is politically difficult to tell people to retain information their work > has no need for, just because the work at a later phase of compilation > requires it. > > When one organization innovates by retaining the information so that it can > be used later in the compilation, then I imagine others will follow, and we > will see an industry-wide improvement in execution speed of C++ programmes. The documentation on gcc 3.4's new parser tree might interest you. I read a small document on it eariler this year and it sound like that is excactly the kind of thing they are doing with it. Or at least planning to do now that the infastructure exists for it. http://gcc.gnu.org/projects/tree-ssa/ If was merged into what is now gcc 3.4 in May of this year. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 21 12:44:52 2004 From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:44:52 -0400 Subject: force knx live hd install use /home part? Message-ID: <412743C4.30800@onlink.net> I want to do an "industrial" hard disk install of knoppix 3.3 Live. The ony partitioning I want to do is to have a separate /home directory. knoppix-installer offers qparted -- I went in there and created a 4 GB /home dir. The remaining 10 GB I partitioned as /. However, when I continue it seems to ignore my extra partition and just asks what partition I want to install knoppix to. Of course I always choose the largest partition (the 10 GB one). After installing I seem, as usual, my /home directory has been ignored (I think it was hda7). knoppix just adds a /home under /. knoppix mounts the partitions and even displays them on the desktop. Clicking on /dev/hda7 I see it contains only lost+found. And /dev/hda7 shows up in /etc/fstab as having been "# Created by knoppix". df /home just gives a reference to the 10 GB partition. Does anyone know if knoppix 3.3 live (hd install) can be forced to use different partitions? The debian-knoppix user list is being rebuilt so I can't post there. This is not critical. I only wanted this so that if there was aever a problem with my / directory I could re-install without formatting my /home directory. However I do have an hdb drive and a networked second machine that I can back up /home to if a separate /home directory is impossible in knoppix live hd install/ I just want to know. Chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 21 16:15:55 2004 From: taavi-LbuTpDkqzNzXI80/IeQp7B2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 12:15:55 -0400 Subject: force knx live hd install use /home part? In-Reply-To: <412743C4.30800-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <412743C4.30800@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040821161555.GY28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 08:44:52AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: > Does anyone know if knoppix 3.3 live (hd install) can be forced to use > different partitions? The debian-knoppix user list is being rebuilt so I > can't post there. This is not critical. I only wanted this so that if > there was aever a problem with my / directory I could re-install without > formatting my /home directory. However I do have an hdb drive and a > networked second machine that I can back up /home to if a separate /home > directory is impossible in knoppix live hd install/ I just want to know. You can also manually move the /home/* files to /dev/hda7 and adjust the /etc/fstab file to automount /dev/hda7 to /home. Next time you install, you'll just have to update /etc/fstab. :) Not the "perfect" solution, but it certainly works. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 03:40:52 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:40:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: force knx live hd install use /home part? In-Reply-To: <20040821161555.GY28594-9xiANKxwco42bRTacqR3/JR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <412743C4.30800@onlink.net> <20040821161555.GY28594@hatefulsheep.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 21 Aug 2004, Taavi Burns wrote: > On Sat, Aug 21, 2004 at 08:44:52AM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote: >> Does anyone know if knoppix 3.3 live (hd install) can be forced to use >> different partitions? The debian-knoppix user list is being rebuilt so I >> can't post there. This is not critical. I only wanted this so that if >> there was aever a problem with my / directory I could re-install without >> formatting my /home directory. However I do have an hdb drive and a >> networked second machine that I can back up /home to if a separate /home >> directory is impossible in knoppix live hd install/ I just want to know. > > You can also manually move the /home/* files to /dev/hda7 and adjust the > /etc/fstab file to automount /dev/hda7 to /home. Next time you install, > you'll just have to update /etc/fstab. :) In my experience knoppix scripts rewrite /etc/fstab at each boot. This means that any changes you make to /etc/ftsab will be washed down at the next reboot. You need to tinker a lot wih scripts to fix this imho. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 00:48:48 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 20:48:48 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? In-Reply-To: <262d56261b2d.261b2d262d56-6s6ziW1YCwCw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> References: <262d56261b2d.261b2d262d56@ryerson.ca> Message-ID: <4127B530.16862.94203CA@localhost> In response to this earlier thread, I knew I had this address lying around; you would be well advised to check this place out, even though it is a tad out-of- the-way. PC Maniak (905) 602-9901 Tomken and Matheson just north of Brevik 5456 Tomken Rd. Unit 8 Closes 5PM, 7 days per week Paul > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rob Sutherland > Date: Friday, August 20, 2004 8:46 am > Subject: [TLUG]: Old & used computer books? > > > Does anyone know a good place to get old & used computer books in > > or around Metro Toronto? > > > > Rob > > > > -- > > Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org > > Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com ========================================================= Paul King http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 01:26:47 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 21:26:47 -0400 Subject: Old & used computer books? In-Reply-To: <4127B530.16862.94203CA@localhost> References: <4127B530.16862.94203CA@localhost> Message-ID: <4127F657.9010309@rogers.com> Paul King wrote: > In response to this earlier thread, I knew I had this address lying around; you > would be well advised to check this place out, even though it is a tad out-of- > the-way. > > PC Maniak > (905) 602-9901 > Tomken and Matheson just north of Brevik > 5456 Tomken Rd. > Unit 8 > Closes 5PM, 7 days per week That might be the old location on the east side of Tomken. It's now right across the street on the west side. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 03:24:43 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 21 Aug 2004 23:24:43 -0400 Subject: force knx live hd install use /home part? In-Reply-To: <412743C4.30800-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> References: <412743C4.30800@onlink.net> Message-ID: <20040822032443.GB12367@m1800> I don't know about forcing the install, but you can mount the second partition as /misc and then... login as root mv /home /misc ln -s /misc/home /home What's really nice is that if/when you upgrade/re-install, you can... re-format the OS partition install the OS login as root rm -r /home ln -s /misc/home /home ...and you're off and running with your new linux version, and your data hasn't been touched. This algorith is something I learned back in my Windows days, when I seemed to be re-installing every month or so. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 05:29:43 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 01:29:43 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? Message-ID: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> If you have multiple connections to Internet (say, PPP dialup, DSL, and Cable), how do you make use of all 3 ? - Do you put 3 default entries in the routing table? Like route add default gw 11.22.33.44 route add default gw 55.66.77.88 route add default gw 99.11.22.33 - Is there some /proc/* parameter you set to "round robin" the default gateway? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 08:00:57 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 04:00:57 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <20040822052943.GA4723-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, William Park wrote: > If you have multiple connections to Internet (say, PPP dialup, DSL, and > Cable), how do you make use of all 3 ? > > - Do you put 3 default entries in the routing table? Like > route add default gw 11.22.33.44 > route add default gw 55.66.77.88 > route add default gw 99.11.22.33 > > - Is there some /proc/* parameter you set to "round robin" the > default gateway? You can use the iproute2 utilities to do this. Note: there seems to be bug when using both NAT and load balanced default routes which I can into (and which was alluded to the Netfilter list). Not sure if there is a fix yet. I currently have 2 links operating in a fail-over configuration with certain specific routes going out the secondary (such as a web proxy-cache to act as a parent to a local proxy-cache). A script running locally on the firewall rationalises routing if one of the links drops unexpectedly. Works well enough until I get back to trying load balanced default routes again. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 11:56:43 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 07:56:43 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <20040822052943.GA4723-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <412889FB.9000009@rogers.com> William Park wrote: > If you have multiple connections to Internet (say, PPP dialup, DSL, and > Cable), how do you make use of all 3 ? > > - Do you put 3 default entries in the routing table? Like > route add default gw 11.22.33.44 > route add default gw 55.66.77.88 > route add default gw 99.11.22.33 > > - Is there some /proc/* parameter you set to "round robin" the > default gateway? > You can only have 1 default gateway. Using all 3 in the manner you suggest, is not practical. If you had multiple connections to the same ISP, you might be able to arrange load balancing, but with three unrelated connections, there's no way to do that. You might be able to determine which connection is best for a particular destination and routhe that way, but again, that's not practical without knowing about the routing between ISPs. Just distributing the packets among the 3 won't work, as with tcp, you need a "connection", which includes a consistent IP address on both ends. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 12:48:54 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 08:48:54 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, William Park wrote: > > >>If you have multiple connections to Internet (say, PPP dialup, DSL, and >>Cable), how do you make use of all 3 ? >> >> - Do you put 3 default entries in the routing table? Like >> route add default gw 11.22.33.44 >> route add default gw 55.66.77.88 >> route add default gw 99.11.22.33 >> >> - Is there some /proc/* parameter you set to "round robin" the >> default gateway? > > > You can use the iproute2 utilities to do this. Note: there seems to be > bug when using both NAT and load balanced default routes which I can into > (and which was alluded to the Netfilter list). Not sure if there is a fix > yet. > > I currently have 2 links operating in a fail-over configuration with > certain specific routes going out the secondary (such as a web proxy-cache > to act as a parent to a local proxy-cache). A script running locally on > the firewall rationalises routing if one of the links drops unexpectedly. Are your links with the same ISP? I thought load balancing had to be configured at both ends. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 14:21:55 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 10:21:55 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 Message-ID: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> I downloaded and installed bash 3.01. The executable is now in /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash The original bash 2.05b is in /bin/bash What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? My system is Mandrake 10. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 15:38:51 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:38:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <41289636.9030600-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > Are your links with the same ISP? I thought load balancing had to be > configured at both ends. Depends on how the load balancing is done. With MLPPP both physical links appear to be one logical link so support is needed at both ends, but with iproute2 the packets are sent out one link and then the other in turn. It would be like you were sitting there and toggling the default route really fast. Iproute2 actually allows for weighting so you could send packets out 2:1 in favour of a faster link for example. As mentioned, when this is done on the same box as NAT (last time I checked) it falls flat. The kernel doesn't seem to be able to conn_track them properly and as a result it drops some returning packets in this situation :( I will trial it again when I get time as the dual links have proven useful (originally it was meant only as a transition but the costs were low enough I kept it :) Right now my route monitoring script deals quite well with the situation by manually shifting the default route if the primary link drops. HTTP traffic is already designated to go out over the secondary by way of a proxy-cache. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 15:52:35 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 11:52:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > > > Are your links with the same ISP? I thought load balancing had to be > > configured at both ends. > > Depends on how the load balancing is done. With MLPPP both physical links > appear to be one logical link so support is needed at both ends, but with > iproute2 the packets are sent out one link and then the other in turn. It may also be necessary to rebuild the kernel. CONFIG_IP_ROUTE_MULTIPATH Normally, the routing tables specify a single action to be taken in a deterministic manner for a given packet. If you say Y here however, it becomes possible to attach several actions to a packet pattern, in effect specifying several alternative paths to travel for those packets. The router considers all these paths to be of equal "cost" and chooses one of them in a non-deterministic fashion if a matching packet arrives. Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 18:34:49 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 14:34:49 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408221021.55690.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20040822183449.GA979@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 10:21:55AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > I downloaded and installed bash 3.01. The executable is now > in /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash > The original bash 2.05b is in /bin/bash > What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? > My system is Mandrake 10. > John For login, edit /etc/passwd. For your rc.* boot script, edit #!... -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 19:20:05 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:20:05 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040822192005.GC979@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 11:38:51AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote: > Right now my route monitoring script deals quite well with the > situation by manually shifting the default route if the primary link > drops. HTTP traffic is already designated to go out over the > secondary by way of a proxy-cache. 1. So, at any one time, there is only one default in your routing table, right? 2. How do you determine if primary route is down? Do you ping, and if no response, then change the default gateway entry in the routing table? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 19:07:53 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 15:07:53 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <412889FB.9000009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <412889FB.9000009@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040822190753.GB979@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 07:56:43AM -0400, James Knott wrote: > William Park wrote: > >If you have multiple connections to Internet (say, PPP dialup, DSL, and > >Cable), how do you make use of all 3 ? > > > > - Do you put 3 default entries in the routing table? Like > > route add default gw 11.22.33.44 > > route add default gw 55.66.77.88 > > route add default gw 99.11.22.33 > > > > - Is there some /proc/* parameter you set to "round robin" the > > default gateway? > > > > You can only have 1 default gateway. Using all 3 in the manner you > suggest, is not practical. If you had multiple connections to the same > ISP, you might be able to arrange load balancing, but with three > unrelated connections, there's no way to do that. You might be able to > determine which connection is best for a particular destination and > routhe that way, but again, that's not practical without knowing about > the routing between ISPs. Just distributing the packets among the 3 > won't work, as with tcp, you need a "connection", which includes a > consistent IP address on both ends. I can see why NAT would fail for multiple defaults. If it goes out through ppp0, then the source IP will appear as 11.11.11.11, and if it goes out through eth0, then the source IP will appear as 22.22.22.22. So, once connection is made, all its packets must go out through the same interface as the first connection. But, when making that first connection, how do I choose the interface? I did try some experiment with 2 defaults as identically configured as possible, same metric, flags, etc: - eth0 -- first entry in routing table (not active) - ppp0 -- second entry (active) When 'ping' few sites, - eth0 was chosen most of the time, - but, time to time, ppp0 was chosen (I saw modem lights blinking), and I did get packets returning. But, this was rare case. So, my kernel (without "advanced router" section enabled) somehow chose the second default route (ppp0). I would like know how it made that decision, and how I can make it more consistent. :-) -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 20:34:55 2004 From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 16:34:55 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <20040816071651.1ec7abc3.rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw@public.gmane.org> References: <3.0.6.16.20040815232228.5ed794a8@mail.look.ca> Message-ID: <4128CB2F.10240.198E15@localhost> Linux skills seem to be in demand now more than ever according to the NEWSLETTER BELOW...My experience has been that you need to offer skills in many platforms. Often a job description with an outrageous amout of experience is an "employer wish list". If you have a GOOD personality its a real plus. All the best, Rick Tomaschuk http://www.TorontoNUI.ca NETWORK WORLD NEWSLETTER: PHIL HOCHMUTH ON LINUX 08/16/04 Today's focus: Demand for Linux skills rises In this issue: * Jobs requesting Linux skills up 190% from last year * Links related to Linux * Featured reader resource _______________________________________________________________ This newsletter is sponsored by Oracle An Economist Intelligence Unit White Paper: From Grid to Great? Grid computing is breaking out. Familiar mostly to academics, government groups, and scientific researchers, this technology that links together the power of diverse computers to create powerful, fast and flexible systems is beginning to catch on in the corporate world. Included in this white paper, results and interviews from a global survey among Sr Executives, click to download now http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=72604 _______________________________________________________________ CHECK OUT NW FUSION'S NEW WHITE PAPER LIBRARY Just launched: NW Fusion's White Paper Library with new features and improved capabilities! Sort NW Fusion's library of white papers by Date and Vendor, view white papers by TECHNICAL CATEGORY, mouse over white paper descriptions and take advantage of IMPROVED white paper search engine. CLICK HERE: http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=72530 _______________________________________________________________ Today's focus: Demand for Linux skills rises By Phil Hochmuth IT professionals with Linux skills are in demand, according to a recent report issued by Dice.com, an online IT job search Web site. According to an analysis of job postings on its Web site, listings for positions requesting Linux skills were up 190% since a year ago, with 2,200 total postings. California was the jackpot in terms of most Linux job opportunities, as 32% of the Linux-related job postings were from the golden state. The New York/New Jersey area was second for Linux job opportunities, with 20% of the postings. What wasn't high on employers' lists was Linux certification. Of the 2,200 Linux-related jobs posted, less than 1% required Linux certifications for the positions. Separately, Dice.com conduced a survey of its users on salary and perceptions about Linux. The survey found that Linux professionals are making around $67,000 a year in salary. This figure was 6% higher than the overall average salary of respondents to the Dice.com survey. As for thoughts on Linux, 41% of those surveyed said they thought Linux was as capable as either Windows or Unix on a server platform. Meanwhile, 38% said that while Linux is good for the server room, it is not ready as a desktop operating system. Thirteen percent said Linux should be used sparingly, and 9% said they would not recommend the use of open source software. RELATED EDITORIAL LINKS Linux makes inroads with Novell users Network World, 08/16/04 http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2004/081604specialfocus.html _______________________________________________________________ To contact: Phil Hochmuth Phil Hochmuth is a Network World Senior Editor and a former systems integrator. You can reach him at . _______________________________________________________________ This newsletter is sponsored by Oracle An Economist Intelligence Unit White Paper: From Grid to Great? Grid computing is breaking out. Familiar mostly to academics, government groups, and scientific researchers, this technology that links together the power of diverse computers to create powerful, fast and flexible systems is beginning to catch on in the corporate world. Included in this white paper, results and interviews from a global survey among Sr Executives, click to download now http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=72604 _______________________________________________________________ ARCHIVE LINKS Breaking Linux news from Network World and around the 'Net, updated daily: http://www.nwfusion.com/topics/linux.html Archive of the Linux newsletter: http://www.nwfusion.com/newsletters/linux/index.html _______________________________________________________________ Making the Most of Your Blade Servers: Optimize Applications, Increase Security You already know that blade servers can save space, money, and resources. But are you making the most of the blade revolution? Join Network World and F5 to learn about software solutions that: * Enable more intelligent traffic management. * Improve scalability, load balancing, and cost-efficiency * Enhance security. Watch now. http://www.fattail.com/redir/redirect.asp?CID=72465 _______________________________________________________________ FEATURED READER RESOURCE WONDERING IF YOUR PAY IS UP TO SNUFF? Check out Network World's 2004 Salary Calculator to see if you're getting paid what you're worth. Using data collected in the 2004 Network World Salary Survey, we've programmed this calculator with several categories that could affect your pay. Answer the questions and find out what the average salary is for your job category. Click here: _______________________________________________________________ May We Send You a Free Print Subscription? You've got the technology snapshot of your choice delivered at your fingertips each day. Now, extend your knowledge by receiving 51 FREE issues to our print publication. 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Write Jeff Caruso, Newsletter Editor, at: Inquiries to: NL Customer Service, Network World, Inc., 118 Turnpike Road, Southborough, MA 01772 For advertising information, write Kevin Normandeau, V.P. of Online Development, at: Copyright Network World, Inc., 2004 ------------------------ On 16 Aug 2004 at 7:16, Rob Sutherland wrote: > On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 23:22:28 > James McIntosh wrote: > > > > > > Work on Open Source is not feasible: it pays nothing. > > > > Work in a call centre will postpone eviction from my apartment. > > > > Criticism of work in a call centre can come only from the rich ivory-tower > > upper class. > > You are incorrect in 4 points.... > > First, I was not criticising the need to work and the acceptance of grim reality. > There *are* worse alternatives than working in a call center, but there are better > as well. To hang in until you find them, yeah, you have to do it. I've worked in > a call center and it sucks and it's a waste of talent. > > Second, yes, you can make money working on OS, I'm doing it right now, mainly by > theming and customizing packages and training rather than working directly on > package development, which is what I think you mean. > > Third, anyone can criticize anything, I mean, just read this list :-) Also, > even if I *was* a member of the 'rich ivory-tower upper class' I might still > be right :-) > > Fourth, I've also been told I had no marketable skills, in spite of a fairly > long resume. What I discovered was that I had no marketing skills and actually > no market - at that time. > > Well, this seems like a good place to end this thread... > > Rob > > > > -- > Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org > Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 21:23:34 2004 From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:23:34 -0400 Subject: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Indeed. I had a contract not too long ago where the correct choice of language should have been C or C++. The full timers did not know either. The code was written in COBOL on UNIX. Grant Cullen JADALL Consulting Ltd. grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org 416-706-4447 -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of Phillip Mills Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 10:03 To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: C or C++ programming mutual assistance group(s) ? On Aug 16, 2004, at 6:00 AM, James McIntosh wrote: > He claimed, without a lot of support, to be a C programmer himself, > and he > probably knew nothing of C++. That's a common problem, sometimes based on logic and sometimes on paranoia. Setting a fairly low standard isn't a terrible idea in an environment where a) there's going to be a lot of turnover, and b) you aren't in a position to hire (or train) for excellence. (Well, yes it is a terrible idea, but within that context there may not be any better ones.) OTOH, there are people who think the definition of 'too complicated' is 'that which they personally don't understand'. When I started programming it seemed that every employer was a 'C shop' or a 'Fortran shop' or a 'Cobol shop' and only developed with a restricted set of tools. It's been almost 20 years since I've encountered a place like that. I thought that selecting the best tool for the job at hand had become universal, but maybe not. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 21:30:08 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:30:08 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41291060.1070901@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > > >>Are your links with the same ISP? I thought load balancing had to be >>configured at both ends. > > > Depends on how the load balancing is done. With MLPPP both physical links > appear to be one logical link so support is needed at both ends, but with > iproute2 the packets are sent out one link and then the other in turn. > > It would be like you were sitting there and toggling the default route > really fast. > > Iproute2 actually allows for weighting so you could send packets out 2:1 > in favour of a faster link for example. > > As mentioned, when this is done on the same box as NAT (last time I > checked) it falls flat. The kernel doesn't seem to be able to conn_track > them properly and as a result it drops some returning packets in this > situation :( Given that you've got more than one connection, you'll have more than one IP address. This means that the out going packets will have different addresses, which will mean they can't be part of the TCP connection. Also, with the two routes, how are the packets returning to you, forwarded to the correct interface? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 21:33:02 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:33:02 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4129110E.6080308@rogers.com> Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > > >>On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: >> >> >>>Are your links with the same ISP? I thought load balancing had to be >>>configured at both ends. >> >>Depends on how the load balancing is done. With MLPPP both physical links >>appear to be one logical link so support is needed at both ends, but with >>iproute2 the packets are sent out one link and then the other in turn. > > > It may also be necessary to rebuild the kernel. > CONFIG_IP_ROUTE_MULTIPATH > Normally, the routing tables specify a single action to be taken in > a deterministic manner for a given packet. If you say Y here > however, it becomes possible to attach several actions to a packet > pattern, in effect specifying several alternative paths to travel > for those packets. The router considers all these paths to be of > equal "cost" and chooses one of them in a non-deterministic fashion > if a matching packet arrives. > Assuming you've got two ISPs connected and the packets are sent out via both, what address is specified for the source? With TCP, you set up a socket consisting of address & port pairs. How does having multiple ISPs affect that? -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 21:54:33 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:54:33 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <4128CB2F.10240.198E15@localhost> References: <3.0.6.16.20040815232228.5ed794a8@mail.look.ca> <4128CB2F.10240.198E15@localhost> Message-ID: <41291619.8040406@rogers.com> Rick Tomaschuk wrote: > Linux skills seem to be in demand now more than ever according to the > NEWSLETTER BELOW...My experience has been that you need to offer skills in > many platforms. Often a job description with an outrageous amout of experience is > an "employer wish list". If you have a GOOD personality its a real plus. The big part is getting past HR types, who insist every skill listed is essential and won't talk to you, if you don't have them all. Then there's the positions where they want more experience, than the technology's been around. I even saw one ad, where they wanted a recent grad, with three years experience! -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 21:59:24 2004 From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:59:24 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <20040822183449.GA979-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20040822183449.GA979@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <4129173C.7070907@rogers.com> It is generally not a good idea to edit /etc/passwd with "any old editor" .... if it is provided, us "vipw", which is a method for calling "vi" which ensures the integrity of the file. William Park wrote: >On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 10:21:55AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > > >>I downloaded and installed bash 3.01. The executable is now >>in /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash >>The original bash 2.05b is in /bin/bash >>What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? >>My system is Mandrake 10. >>John >> >> > >For login, edit /etc/passwd. For your rc.* boot script, edit #!... > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 22:07:00 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:07:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <4129110E.6080308-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> <4129110E.6080308@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > It may also be necessary to rebuild the kernel. > > CONFIG_IP_ROUTE_MULTIPATH > > Normally, the routing tables specify a single action to be taken in > > a deterministic manner for a given packet. If you say Y here > > however, it becomes possible to attach several actions to a packet > > pattern, in effect specifying several alternative paths to travel > > for those packets. The router considers all these paths to be of > > equal "cost" and chooses one of them in a non-deterministic fashion > > if a matching packet arrives. > > > > Assuming you've got two ISPs connected and the packets are sent out via > both, what address is specified for the source? With TCP, you set up a > socket consisting of address & port pairs. How does having multiple > ISPs affect that? No problem, unless your ISP filters packets without your assigned IP address as the source. man 2 bind -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 22:22:17 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:22:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <4129173C.7070907-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20040822183449.GA979@node1.opengeometry.net> <4129173C.7070907@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Tom Legrady wrote: > It is generally not a good idea to edit /etc/passwd with "any old editor" > .... if it is provided, us "vipw", which is a method for calling "vi" which > ensures the integrity of the file. Thankfully, vipw doesn't necessarily call vi; it calls whichever editor you have defined in the EDITOR variable. > William Park wrote: > >> On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 10:21:55AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: >> >>> I downloaded and installed bash 3.01. The executable is now in >>> /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash >>> The original bash 2.05b is in /bin/bash >>> What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? >>> My system is Mandrake 10. You can copy /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash to /bin. You can make /bin/bash a link to /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash. Here are the versions of bash in my /bin (also a Mandrake 10 system): $ l /bin/*bash* lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 Aug 13 18:03 /bin/bash -> bash3w -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 616440 Jul 9 02:47 /bin/bash2.05b -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 650112 Jul 27 16:37 /bin/bash3.0 -rwxrwxr-x 1 chris chris 696432 Aug 13 18:01 /bin/bash3.0w lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 May 28 04:48 /bin/rbash -> bash Bash3.0w has William Park's enhancements. >> For login, edit /etc/passwd. For your rc.* boot script, edit #!... -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 22:22:37 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:22:37 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:54:33 EDT." <41291619.8040406-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <41291619.8040406@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:54:33 EDT, the world broke into rejoicing as James Knott said: > Rick Tomaschuk wrote: >> Linux skills seem to be in demand now more than ever according to the >> NEWSLETTER BELOW...My experience has been that you need to offer >> skills in many platforms. Often a job description with an outrageous >> amout of experience is an "employer wish list". If you have a GOOD >> personality its a real plus. > The big part is getting past HR types, who insist every skill listed > is essential and won't talk to you, if you don't have them all. Then > there's the positions where they want more experience, than the > technology's been around. I even saw one ad, where they wanted a > recent grad, with three years experience! I think the best one I ever saw was a job posting expecting people with 3 years of NeXTStep experience when NeXT had just released its first products a few months prior. (Yeah, that was a while ago :-).) Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also seem similarly stupid... -- output = reverse("gro.mca" "@" "enworbbc") http://cbbrowne.com/info/lisp.html ">WindowsNT will not accept fecal matter in its diet... it's that simple. I suppose that is a good ward against cannibalism." -- Nick Manka -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 22 22:32:15 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 18:32:15 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <20040822222237.435D94631-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <41291EEF.8080108@rogers.com> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I think the best one I ever saw was a job posting expecting people with > 3 years of NeXTStep experience when NeXT had just released its first > products a few months prior. (Yeah, that was a while ago :-).) > > Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also > seem similarly stupid... One ad that really annoyed me, was back when Bob Rae was premier. In the ad, for a position with the provincial government, they had a long list of preferred candidates, such as visible minority, female, native, handicapped etc. I soon realized that as a healthy white male, there was no point in even applying. Discrimination is discrimination, no matter how you slice it. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 00:09:08 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:09:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <20040822222237.435D94631-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > I think the best one I ever saw was a job posting expecting people with > 3 years of NeXTStep experience when NeXT had just released its first > products a few months prior. (Yeah, that was a while ago :-).) > > Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also > seem similarly stupid... I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president 6042147 Canada Inc. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 00:25:14 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:25:14 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <20040822183449.GA979-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20040822183449.GA979@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200408222025.15654.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Sunday 22 August 2004 02:34 pm, William Park wrote: > On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 10:21:55AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > > I downloaded and installed bash 3.01. The executable is now > > in /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash > > The original bash 2.05b is in /bin/bash > > What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? > > My system is Mandrake 10. > > John > > For login, edit /etc/passwd. For your rc.* boot script, edit #!... I am sure this makes perfect sense to people more experienced. Even if I would use vipw to edit the passwd file I would have no clue what to edit ! Your last sentance does not make any sense at all (at least to to me), But thanks anyway. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 00:25:40 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:25:40 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20040823002541.0CD044631@cbbrowne.com> Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> I think the best one I ever saw was a job posting expecting people >> with 3 years of NeXTStep experience when NeXT had just released its >> first products a few months prior. (Yeah, that was a while ago :-).) >> >> Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also >> seem similarly stupid... > > I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an > interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb > company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? Ah, but as soon as a company grows past, say, 1000 employees, it's guaranteed that they need to implement a central HR function, and it's the people that are "HR specialists" that are clueless in this fashion. There may be perfectly competent techie folk around; it's just that you can't get to them unless you can get through HR. -- (format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "acm.org") http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/lisp.html "One World. One Web. One Program." -- MICROS~1 hype "Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuehrer" -- Nazi hype (One people, one country, one leader) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 00:28:12 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:28:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > >> I think the best one I ever saw was a job posting expecting people with >> 3 years of NeXTStep experience when NeXT had just released its first >> products a few months prior. (Yeah, that was a while ago :-).) >> >> Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also >> seem similarly stupid... > > I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an > interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb > company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? Two reasons, at least: One is desperate for a job. The HR dept. is not representative of other departments in the company. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 00:46:34 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:46:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: <20040823002541.0CD044631-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> <20040823002541.0CD044631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Christopher Browne wrote: > Ralph Doncaster wrote: > >> Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also > >> seem similarly stupid... > > > > I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an > > interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb > > company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? > > There may be perfectly competent techie folk around; it's just that you > can't get to them unless you can get through HR. In all the companies I worked for, HR didn't make up the requirements on their own. So if you see a job listed with 5yrs of 802.1x experience as a requirement, chances are that the group manager (not just HR) is pretty stupid. What I have also found is that when someone wants to get a job at a company and they don't get it, they'll often find excuses for why it's not their fault. If you're looking for technical job (linux-related or otherwise) remember what counts for a business: money. Most people would be better off to get a $9/hr helpdesk job in a company and work your way up from there instead of spending $5K/yr in tuition for a degree or diploma in computers. -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 00:48:40 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:48:40 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <4129173C.7070907@rogers.com> Message-ID: <200408222048.40749.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Sunday 22 August 2004 06:22 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > > You can copy /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash to /bin. > > You can make /bin/bash a link to /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash. I assume you renamed the original bash to bash2.05b. Suppose I do this, and then copy my /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash to /bin/bash. Is this all I have to do, or do I still have to edit the passwd file?? Presumably I will also have to reboot ?? My problem is that I am afraid to screw things up and then have no bash left to get back on track again. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 00:52:46 2004 From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 20:52:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > > I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an > > interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb > > company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? > > Two reasons, at least: > > One is desperate for a job. If you're desperate then you're not picky and demanding. Virtually anyone who can speak English and knows how to double-click a mouse can get a $9/hr helpdesk job. And if you have a couple clues to rub together I've heard of some helpdesk jobs in the GTA paying $30K salary. -Ralph -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 01:14:43 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:14:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408222048.40749.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <4129173C.7070907@rogers.com> <200408222048.40749.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > On Sunday 22 August 2004 06:22 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> You can copy /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash to /bin. >> >> You can make /bin/bash a link to /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash. > > I assume you renamed the original bash to bash2.05b. Right. > Suppose I do this, and then copy my /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash to /bin/bash. Better, copy it to /bin/bash3.0, and symlink it: ln -s bash /bin/bash3.0 Or don't copy it: ln -s /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash /bin/bash > Is this all I have to do, or do I still have to edit the passwd file?? No, because your shell in the password file is (probably) /bin/bash, and that is now the new version. > Presumably I will also have to reboot ?? NEVER!!! (.....except for kernel or hardware upgrades) The most you have to do is logout and log back in. Or just exit the xterm and start a new one. > My problem is that I am afraid to screw things up and then have no bash left > to get back on track again. If you're that worried, create a user with /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash as the shell. And add /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash to /etc/shells: echo "/usr/local/bash-3.01/bash" >> /etc/shells -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 01:17:43 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:17:43 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <412945B7.90902@rogers.com> Ralph Doncaster wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > >>I think the best one I ever saw was a job posting expecting people with >>3 years of NeXTStep experience when NeXT had just released its first >>products a few months prior. (Yeah, that was a while ago :-).) >> >>Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also >>seem similarly stupid... > > > I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an > interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb > company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? Some times, it's an agency that's doing the filtering. Most of the one's I've talked to, tend not to know the situation. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 02:11:35 2004 From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 22:11:35 -0400 Subject: programming courses? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <41295257.609@iprimus.ca> Hey Ralph umm, these are tough times, some folks myself included, have to take whatever they can get. pretty sad but for most people (that I know anyway) thats where its at my 2 bits Clive Ralph Doncaster wrote: >On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote: > > > >>I think the best one I ever saw was a job posting expecting people with >>3 years of NeXTStep experience when NeXT had just released its first >>products a few months prior. (Yeah, that was a while ago :-).) >> >>Those looking for people with years and years of .NET experience also >>seem similarly stupid... >> >> > >I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an >interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb >company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? > >Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president >6042147 Canada Inc. > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > > -- Clive DaSilva CMA Tel: 416-421-2440 Cell: 416-560-8820 Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org Linux Mandrake 9.1 kernel 2.4.21 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 03:15:25 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:15:25 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408222025.15654.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20040822183449.GA979@node1.opengeometry.net> <200408222025.15654.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20040823031525.GA26153@node1.opengeometry.net> On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 08:25:14PM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > On Sunday 22 August 2004 02:34 pm, William Park wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 22, 2004 at 10:21:55AM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > > > I downloaded and installed bash 3.01. The executable is now > > > in /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash > > > The original bash 2.05b is in /bin/bash > > > What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? > > > My system is Mandrake 10. > > > John > > > > For login, edit /etc/passwd. For your rc.* boot script, edit #!... > I am sure this makes perfect sense to people more experienced. Even if I would > use vipw to edit the passwd file I would have no clue what to edit ! In that case, man chsh By the way, where did you get Bash-3.01 ? -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 03:29:28 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org) Date: Sun, 22 Aug 2004 23:29:28 -0400 Subject: Agencies In-Reply-To: <412945B7.90902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> <412945B7.90902@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040823032928.4B6613FD1@cbbrowne.com> > Some times, it's an agency that's doing the filtering. Most of the > one's I've talked to, tend not to know the situation. Ah, yes, I forgot about that option. Yes, it would certainly add to the "lack of clue" if the organization doing some filtering isn't even really related to the one doing the actual hiring. A major point to "agencies" is that they get in piles of resumes, and will do [whatever it is they do] to filter that down to the few that are purportedly useful. Compare that to BigCorp Inc announcing a job in the papers, and having 2700 applicants send in resumes, of which 2400 were completely frivolous, but where many of those would happily come back and sue BigCorp Inc if they found any evidence that those resumes weren't all treated according to a policy of "due respect." Essentially, the agency does the trashcanning of the _really_ frivolous ones, separating BigCorp Inc from a whole whack of paperwork, and possibly some legal liability vis-a-vis possible discrimination. The agency might use screening criterion that BigCorp isn't allowed to, but as long as nobody asks and nobody tells, both parties remain happy. And those that might have been discriminated against have nobody to go after, because: a) BigCorp didn't do anything wrong, and b) AgencyScreener wasn't going to hire them because they don't hire _anybody_. It's pretty crummy, in some ways, but I'm not sure but that the alternatives might be worse :-(. -- (reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc")) http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/multiplexor.html if (argc > 1 && strcmp(argv[1], "-advice") == 0) { printf("Don't Panic!\n"); exit(42); } (Arnold Robbins in the LJ of February '95, describing RCS) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 05:08:07 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <20040822192005.GC979-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> <20040822192005.GC979@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, William Park wrote: > 1. So, at any one time, there is only one default in your routing > table, right? As I have it setup right now yes. This is without the use of iproute2 because of the aforementioned NAT/iproute2 bug. > 2. How do you determine if primary route is down? Do you ping, and if > no response, then change the default gateway entry in the routing > table? Right now it just checks if the interface is up. This has covered about 90% of outages in the 6 months I've been doing this. I am planning to add some upstream pings (using specific static routes to make sure it goes out the interface I'm testing) when I get time. I will have another look at iproute2 later too. By far the most common failure mode has been the primary (ADSL with static address) failing causing the default route to fail-over to the secondary (Cable with DHCP alliocated dynamic address). My script sends emails to the users on link status changes. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 05:15:20 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:15:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <41291060.1070901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> <41291060.1070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > Given that you've got more than one connection, you'll have more than > one IP address. This means that the out going packets will have Exactly. > different addresses, which will mean they can't be part of the TCP Yep. > connection. Also, with the two routes, how are the packets returning to That's right. The kernel alternates which interface connections go out (with weighting as noted earlier). > you, forwarded to the correct interface? Packets coming back from remote hosts arrive at the right interfaces because the original packets had different source addresses as you noted. The problem seems to be that the kernel NAT code is/was not properly iproute2 aware (although it is supposed to me) meaning that for a certain percentage of packets it tries to conn_track it back through the wrong interface and you get a really odd message in the logs (about the interface being wrong :) . Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 05:20:13 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:20:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <20040822190753.GB979-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <412889FB.9000009@rogers.com> <20040822190753.GB979@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, William Park wrote: > So, my kernel (without "advanced router" section enabled) somehow chose > the second default route (ppp0). I would like know how it made that > decision, and how I can make it more consistent. :-) Aarrgh, I would so not rely on that :) I think the whole idea of multiple default routes without using iproute2 is black magic :) The behaviour could be quite undefined :) IMHO, sse iproute2 or the method I suggested earlier :) Since most traffic thesee days goes through a proxy-cache one option is to load-balance only traffic that is coming from the proxy-cache (so http, ftp, etc) and not NAT this traffic. NAT everything else and have it go through only one interface. I would have done this as my next step in trialing iproute2 but I was pretty annoyed by this time (after trampling the obscure bug) and setup the simple system I am still using. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 05:26:09 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 01:26:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <412889FB.9000009@rogers.com> <20040822190753.GB979@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > Since most traffic thesee days goes through a proxy-cache one option is to That was badly worded. I meant most traffic these days is of a type that _could_ go through a proxy-cache (like squid), eg http. Thus by only load balancing tcp/80 you get most of the traffic balanced. Also, I did not experiment heavily with how well iproute2 copes with link drops. IIRC I don't think it was dropping routes when interfaces went down so some sort of management script may still be needed. I also found the multiple routing tables sometimes got out of sync with what the ip utility was showing. I had to reboot the test box to clear this up. This did not inspire confidence and was part of the reason I dropped the project in favour of a simpler solution. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 12:34:05 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 08:34:05 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> <41291060.1070901@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4129E43D.5050305@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > > >>Given that you've got more than one connection, you'll have more than >>one IP address. This means that the out going packets will have > > > Exactly. > > >>different addresses, which will mean they can't be part of the TCP > > > Yep. > Based on what I've read in your other messages, you've simply got a standby connection, which becomes active, when the primary connection fails. I don't think this is what the OP wants. I got the impression he wanted to use all three connections similtaneously. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 13:09:34 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 09:09:34 -0400 Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Aug 22, 2004, at 8:09 PM, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an > interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb > company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? If a company is doing interesting things with neat technology, it may not be a dumb company. If it's of any size at all, it may have a "dumb" employee...or a smart employee who did a "dumb" thing. (Let's see...have I *ever* felt as if I could be described that way?) Also, no job description for a position with any creative scope ever survives contact with reality. Within a month, the person getting the job will have modified it by applying knowledge that the hiring manager didn't have. Even without that, in any technology-oriented company, people, projects, and goals change frequently. (Which is why I shake my head so often at ads that insist on experience with "SomeDatabase version 13.04".) Apart from discouraging capable candidates, the problem with ridiculous/impossible requirements is that a literal, checklist approach to screening responses gets the managers interviewees who have been selected for their ability to generate B.S. ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 14:15:30 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:15:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Aug 22, 2004, at 8:09 PM, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > > > I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an > > interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb > > company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? > > If a company is doing interesting things with neat technology, it may > not be a dumb company. If it's of any size at all, it may have a > "dumb" employee...or a smart employee who did a "dumb" thing. (Let's > see...have I *ever* felt as if I could be described that way?) I agree .. I once took a job at an organization that supplied computing services to an insurance company, so to say it was bureaucratic would be an understatement. They were also a 45 minute commute away, but they wanted to hire me to work on application development in OS/2 (in 1990) which was exactly the field I wanted to work in, and one that I thought would take off. > Also, no job description for a position with any creative scope ever > survives contact with reality. Within a month, the person getting the > job will have modified it by applying knowledge that the hiring manager > didn't have. Even without that, in any technology-oriented company, > people, projects, and goals change frequently. (Which is why I shake > my head so often at ads that insist on experience with "SomeDatabase > version 13.04".) This is a good time to roll out my Boneheaded Headhunter story, where he'd written down something to do with networking digital's VAX systems called DELNET. I explained that it was the _digital equipment corporation_ that built VAXe[ns], hence the networking protocol was DECNET -- he'd written the name down wrong. "Yeah, whatever" was his casual response. Frankly, I have sympathy for the headhunters in a technical field: in my opinion, only a geek knows and remembers the different versions of DOS and how well each one did: DOS 3.1, 3.2, 3.3, 3.31, 4, 5, 6, 6.1 -- and that some of those were Microsoft efforts and some were IBM productions. Then there are the DR-DOS versions as well as the clones like PC-MOS. To bring that attempted paralell into the present day, if you know the provenance of the flavours of Unix/Linux, then you have a rough idea how similar each version is (BSD vs. SysV). Some commands are more or less the same across the flavours -- some will have you heading to the man page in frustration. Some are better at networking, some are better as desktops. > Apart from discouraging capable candidates, the problem with > ridiculous/impossible requirements is that a literal, checklist > approach to screening responses gets the managers interviewees who have > been selected for their ability to generate B.S. I imagine the literal checklist happening with a left-brained or junior HR drone writing up the ad. The intelligent job seeker will use a cover letter to explain that while their resume says ThisDatabase 7.1, version 7.3 (what the employer has specified) is almost identical in functionality .. that's exactly what a cover letter can be used for -- to fine-tune the resume to target a specific employer. And if the only thing separating you from getting a job is a difference in SQL flavours, that's really not a big problem unless you're expected to do some Pretty Magical Things with the system tables. For the most part, SQL is SQL. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 14:50:46 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 10:50:46 -0400 Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Aug 23, 2004, at 10:15 AM, talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > The intelligent job seeker will use a cover letter to explain that > while > their resume says ThisDatabase 7.1, version 7.3 (what the employer has > specified) is almost identical in functionality .. that's exactly what > a > cover letter can be used for -- to fine-tune the resume to target a > specific employer. > > And if the only thing separating you from getting a job is a > difference in > SQL flavours, that's really not a big problem unless you're expected > to do > some Pretty Magical Things with the system tables. For the most part, > SQL > is SQL. Yes, in a practical world, I agree with both these concepts. The problem is when the requirements are used as a literal filter function so that the cover letter or logical explanation never gets to the decision maker. When I last hired people (1996, I believe), I was looking for Java programmers. This was before there were any great number of those available, so I was being flexible...OOP skills or C experience and some idea of structuring code was fine. (Our project was one of the first ever to get Sun's Pure Java certification.) I was seeing 300 applications for job postings, including some where the closest match to requirements was carpentry. As I understand it, job ads in Toronto today garner numbers closer to 2500 if they're widely distributed. The point being that, since some kind of semi-automatic filtering is necessary, the organizations should be more careful about criteria and focus on true requirements instead of superficiality. (BTW, another ex-VAX person?) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 15:06:12 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:06:12 -0400 Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <412A07E4.2060008@rogers.com> Phillip Mills wrote: > (BTW, another ex-VAX person?) I used to support a few VAX 11/780 systems, back in the days, when I was a computer tech. Those used to be considered a fairly powerful system. Then the 386 came out and had as much computing horsepower as the VAX!. A bit cheaper too. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 15:06:20 2004 From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:06:20 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Phillip Mills wrote: > (BTW, another ex-VAX person?) Don't worry, there are more of us lerking in the shadows. Terry -- Terry Tanski, B.Sc. Phone: (416) 863-2126 Canada NewsWire Ltd. Fax: (416) 863-4825 20 Bay Street, Suite 1500 Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Toronto, ON M5J 2N8 Web: http://www.newswire.ca -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 15:41:58 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:41:58 -0400 Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: <412A07E4.2060008-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> <412A07E4.2060008@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Aug 23, 2004, at 11:06 AM, James Knott wrote: > Those used to be considered a fairly powerful system. Then the 386 > came out and had as much computing horsepower as the VAX!. > A bit cheaper too. ;-) I once worked with a person who had a functional clone of VMS that ran on Intel chips. It was cute, but not terribly quick. One of the neat VMS tricks was that the VAX architecture included opcodes implemented specifically to support common OS operations like scheduling and context switching. I never had an opportunity to try Linux on Alpha. Now, if the development of that chip had been supported decently.... ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 15:43:04 2004 From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:43:04 -0400 Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: <20040823154304.9467F3FD2@cbbrowne.com> > And if the only thing separating you from getting a job is a difference in > SQL flavours, that's really not a big problem unless you're expected to do > some Pretty Magical Things with the system tables. For the most part, SQL > is SQL. Actually, I have to disagree with that one. One of my coworkers implemented a data conversion (dump from source system, load into destination system) because the query capabilities in the source system (MySQL) were so much more primitive than in any self-respecting SQL implementation. There _are_ pretty big differences between the different flavours of SQL out there, between: - Some databases only feigning compliance with standards, thereby mandating that you design your application to do a whole lot of work that a DBMS ought to be able to do for you (typical with MySQL); - Some databases only performing acceptably if you make intense use of entirely non-portable proprietary extensions (typical with Oracle and the various Sybase spinoffs). Yes, there may be a bit of "lingua franca" in common, but it's really not all that large :-(. -- If this was helpful, rate me http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/multiplexor.html programmer, n: A red eyed, mumbling mammal capable of conversing with inanimate monsters. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 15:57:18 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 11:57:18 -0400 Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> <412A07E4.2060008@rogers.com> Message-ID: <412A13DE.3070405@rogers.com> Phillip Mills wrote: > On Aug 23, 2004, at 11:06 AM, James Knott wrote: > >> Those used to be considered a fairly powerful system. Then the 386 >> came out and had as much computing horsepower as the VAX!. >> A bit cheaper too. ;-) > > > I once worked with a person who had a functional clone of VMS that ran > on Intel chips. It was cute, but not terribly quick. One of the neat > VMS tricks was that the VAX architecture included opcodes implemented > specifically to support common OS operations like scheduling and context > switching. Another thing, was the microcode, which ran the CPU, was loaded in from floppy, on boot up. If you were so inclined, you could write your own instructions. The Data General Eclipse computers also had that ability, but instead of loading it from floppy at boot, you had to load the WCS (writable control store), after the computer had booted. The VAX had the LSI-11, which included the floppy drive and was also what the terminal connected to (remember STP?). If not being used for booting or running the monitor program, the floppy and terminal could be used as regular devices, attached to the VAX. Incidentally, those VAX systems were my first experience with ethernet (thicknet), though my first network experience was with some Collins 8500C systems. Collins had invented the first computer lan back in the 60's, but used time division multiplexing on the cable, instead of packets. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 18:11:59 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 14:11:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: <4129E43D.5050305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> <41291060.1070901@rogers.com> <4129E43D.5050305@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > Based on what I've read in your other messages, you've simply got a > standby connection, which becomes active, when the primary connection Close. I am pushing specific types of traffic (http) out of the secondary link as a "poor man's load balancing" until the iproute2/NAt issue is resolved. > fails. I don't think this is what the OP wants. I got the impression > he wanted to use all three connections similtaneously. Yeah I think so. I was warning against the problems I had when I tried this ("past here be dragons"). Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 24 00:34:30 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:34:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Phillip Mills wrote: > On Aug 22, 2004, at 8:09 PM, Ralph Doncaster wrote: > >> I find it rather ironic when people complain about not getting an >> interview at a company due to stupid hiring practices. If it's a dumb >> company, why would anyone intelligent want to work there? > > If a company is doing interesting things with neat technology, it may not be > a dumb company. If it's of any size at all, it may have a "dumb" > employee...or a smart employee who did a "dumb" thing. (Let's see...have I > *ever* felt as if I could be described that way?) > > Also, no job description for a position with any creative scope ever survives > contact with reality. Within a month, the person getting the job will have > modified it by applying knowledge that the hiring manager didn't have. Even > without that, in any technology-oriented company, people, projects, and goals > change frequently. (Which is why I shake my head so often at ads that insist > on experience with "SomeDatabase version 13.04".) > > Apart from discouraging capable candidates, the problem with > ridiculous/impossible requirements is that a literal, checklist approach to > screening responses gets the managers interviewees who have been selected for > their ability to generate B.S. I agree with all you've said excepting the "SomeDatabase version 13.04" issue, which can be intrepreted as "we're desperately stuck with our mega-application which runs only on this, and we need you like air to make it work because however much you ask is less than what it takes for us to port the application". Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 24 00:09:45 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408222048.40749.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <4129173C.7070907@rogers.com> <200408222048.40749.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > On Sunday 22 August 2004 06:22 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: >> >> You can copy /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash to /bin. >> >> You can make /bin/bash a link to /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash. > > I assume you renamed the original bash to bash2.05b. > Suppose I do this, and then copy my /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash to /bin/bash. > Is this all I have to do, or do I still have to edit the passwd file?? It is better if you keep the old bash as is and where it is. You can edit the passwd file (using vipw). You then change the login shell (appears as /bin/bash in the line in passwd where your login name appears). You change that entry from /bin/bash to /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash. You need to be root to do this. Save changes (ZZ save or :q! so lose changes). There is another way to do this (depending on your machine setup): The user command chsh: You would do: chsh -s /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash your_login_here as root, and it's done (on some systems you do not have to be root to do that - depends on pam setup - it will always work as root however). To see the change you must log out and in again. See below. chsh has a manual page. > Presumably I will also have to reboot ?? No, just log out and in again. But normally when doing such dangerous changes you do not log out from the terminal you are using and check if you can still login from another terminal (Ctrl-Alt-F2 etc). Please see below. If you somehow make a typo in the -s argument to chsh or while editing with vipw you can lock yourself out of the system (i.e. you won't be able to login again). That's why you would use another terminal to check whether the change helped, *without* logging out the current session. In theory simply running 'su - your_login_here' should test it using only one terminal/session but better be safe and use two. > My problem is that I am afraid to screw things up and then have no bash left > to get back on track again. Your chances to break something with your action (as in, moving bash) are very good imho. In particular do not move /bin/bash while running in multi-user mode. Since most system and cron scripts depend on it the potential for a hotplug or cron event (or even automounter event) to trigger while the file is not ready is enormous. If that happens, it may be the beginning of the end of neatly set up system. The default system shell is best moved when in single user mode, with cron stopped, and *without* typos. Similar considerations apply to moving system libraries (like libc) and the dynamic linker main library. But you do not need to move it if you have chsh. good luck, hope this helps, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 24 00:48:09 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 20:48:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: <20040823154304.9467F3FD2-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> <20040823154304.9467F3FD2@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Aug 2004, Christopher Browne wrote: >> And if the only thing separating you from getting a job is a difference in >> SQL flavours, that's really not a big problem unless you're expected to do >> some Pretty Magical Things with the system tables. For the most part, SQL >> is SQL. > > Actually, I have to disagree with that one. > > One of my coworkers implemented a data conversion (dump from source > system, load into destination system) because the query capabilities in > the source system (MySQL) were so much more primitive than in any > self-respecting SQL implementation. Me too ;-) Written in Perl to prune headings and even column widths from printout (!) formatted data from the old database, for input to Postgresql. Then I made a simple front end for testing, using apache/ssl/php4/postgresql backend. I did this a few years ago. It turns out this is the only way to exchange data between really old apps and new ones. The old app supported .dbf export but I did not trust compatibility at that level (with foreign langiage characters in the fields and a database that has never been audited - brr). I think that it's important to have the skills to do this, or to know someone who can do it. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From clement.chung-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 19:43:41 2004 From: clement.chung-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Clement Chung) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:43:41 -0400 Subject: Part time Linux Sys Admin needed Message-ID: <00df01c48949$7e70b4f0$5f8ea8c0@titanium> Everyone, Anyone looking for a part time Linux system admin position please email me directly with resume (clement.chung-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org). I am working at one of the research lab at the University of Toronto and we are looking for a part time Linux system admin to take care of our Linux servers and provide some general window system admin for our desktop workstation. This position may lead to a full time position if everything works out after an initial trail period and if a full time position opens up. Currently, we have 5 individual Linux servers provided service ranging from web server to firewall to samba. Also, we have a 16 node cluster, all of which are running various version of Linux (red hat, debian). The sys admin (part-time) will be responsible for certain core duties, like hardware related issues, backups, "fire fighting", upgrades, etc. Technical skills that he/she will need to have and be efficient at: Linux OS - as a administrator Hardware service/maintained/setup (server, server cluster, and workstation) Networking Security - server and network Router DHCP DNS Samba Apache Server backups Document existing network Technical skills that he/she should know about it (maybe not expert at): CVS firewall Windows OS (2000 and XP) Network design Here is a list of technical skills that is nice to have: PostgreSql (or other DB admin skills) Web application production (steps and process to produce and maintain web app) Tape backup Thanks, Clement Chung -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 20:42:43 2004 From: pmills-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:42:43 -0400 Subject: Job ads In-Reply-To: References: <20040822222237.435D94631@cbbrowne.com> Message-ID: On Aug 23, 2004, at 8:34 PM, Peter L. Peres wrote: > I agree with all you've said excepting the "SomeDatabase version > 13.04" issue, which can be intrepreted as "we're desperately stuck > with our mega-application which runs only on this, and we need you > like air to make it work because however much you ask is less than > what it takes for us to port the application". If it's a short-term contract, you're most likely correct. But I'm seeing the equivalent requirement so often on job ads...well, can that many people be "desperately stuck" on so many types of technology? I think perhaps it's a hangover from when IT jobs were plentiful. Nobody wanted to spend money on training, assuming that the person trained would be recruited away from them in seconds. The flip side of that coin is that their new employees must be completely familiar with their environment. Now, though lots of skilled people are available, the "raiding" habit hasn't died. Which also shows up in requirements as an insistence that the candidate must have acquired technology experience inside a particular industry. (Out of curiosity, I just executed a Workopolis search that I use. Of the first ten positions returned, four specified software version numbers and another three specified an industry type.) ........................ Phillip Mills Multi-platform software development (416) 224-0714 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 20:46:51 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 16:46:51 -0400 Subject: Routing question -- multiple gateway setup? In-Reply-To: References: <20040822052943.GA4723@node1.opengeometry.net> <41289636.9030600@rogers.com> <41291060.1070901@rogers.com> <4129E43D.5050305@rogers.com> Message-ID: <412A57BB.6030908@rogers.com> Robert Brockway wrote: > Yeah I think so. I was warning against the problems I had when I tried > this ("past here be dragons"). I didn't realize we were talking about Windows. ;-) -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 22:40:48 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 18:40:48 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <20040823031525.GA26153-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408222025.15654.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20040823031525.GA26153@node1.opengeometry.net> Message-ID: <200408231840.49022.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Sunday 22 August 2004 11:15 pm, William Park wrote: > > By the way, where did you get Bash-3.01 ? Errare humanum est! It should have been 3.00. It is the troll in me that forces me to make errors like that. However, it explains now why my initial attempt to make this bash version work failed so miserable. I made a symlink /bin/bash to /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash. Of course it could not find the new bash file. Using the correct directory bash-3.0 everything is hunky dory. Thanks to you and chris Johnson for all the help. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 23 23:00:23 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:00:23 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408222048.40749.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200408231900.23811.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Thanks, Peter for your informative reply. John On Monday 23 August 2004 08:09 pm, Peter L. Peres wrote: > On Sun, 22 Aug 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > > On Sunday 22 August 2004 06:22 pm, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote: > >> You can copy /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash to /bin. > >> > >> You can make /bin/bash a link to /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash. > > > > I assume you renamed the original bash to bash2.05b. > > Suppose I do this, and then copy my /usr/local/bash-3.01/bash to > > /bin/bash. Is this all I have to do, or do I still have to edit the > > passwd file?? > > It is better if you keep the old bash as is and where it is. You can edit > the passwd file (using vipw). You then change the login shell (appears as > /bin/bash in the line in passwd where your login name appears). You change > that entry from /bin/bash to /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash. You need to be root > to do this. Save changes (ZZ save or :q! so lose changes). There is > another way to do this (depending on your machine setup): The user command > chsh: You would do: > > chsh -s /usr/local/bash-3.1/bash your_login_here > > as root, and it's done (on some systems you do not have to be root to do > that - depends on pam setup - it will always work as root however). To see > the change you must log out and in again. See below. chsh has a manual > page. > > > Presumably I will also have to reboot ?? > > No, just log out and in again. But normally when doing such dangerous > changes you do not log out from the terminal you are using and check if > you can still login from another terminal (Ctrl-Alt-F2 etc). Please see > below. If you somehow make a typo in the -s argument to chsh or while > editing with vipw you can lock yourself out of the system (i.e. you won't > be able to login again). That's why you would use another terminal to > check whether the change helped, *without* logging out the current > session. In theory simply running 'su - your_login_here' should test it > using only one terminal/session but better be safe and use two. > > > My problem is that I am afraid to screw things up and then have no bash > > left to get back on track again. > > Your chances to break something with your action (as in, moving bash) are > very good imho. In particular do not move /bin/bash while running in > multi-user mode. Since most system and cron scripts depend on it the > potential for a hotplug or cron event (or even automounter event) to > trigger while the file is not ready is enormous. If that happens, it may > be the beginning of the end of neatly set up system. The default system > shell is best moved when in single user mode, with cron stopped, and > *without* typos. Similar considerations apply to moving system libraries > (like libc) and the dynamic linker main library. But you do not need to > move it if you have chsh. > > good luck, hope this helps, > > Peter > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 24 11:12:27 2004 From: rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org (Rob Sutherland) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:12:27 -0400 Subject: Old and used books In-Reply-To: <13323c56f4644eb7abad285a9a0bdb3f.jhagborg-RECR7kQ19O0@public.gmane.org> References: <13323c56f4644eb7abad285a9a0bdb3f.jhagborg@ica.net> Message-ID: <20040824071227.6e0ced0e.rob@cheapersafer.com> On Fri, 20 Aug 2004 13:23:26 -0400 "" wrote: > i have a few books on computers. They tend to be obselete as well as old and used! > > List the subject matter of your interests and I may be able to help. Nothing very esoteric - I'm looking specifically for a book called 'Secrets of Windows 98' for a friend of mine. I tend to see a lot of older stuff, what categories of books do you have? Rob -- Rob Sutherland - rob-HoWcdTCbwWKHoZZAE0nKLw at public.gmane.org Computer Support at http://www.cheapersafer.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From srb-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 24 12:31:36 2004 From: srb-sKcZck+fQKg at public.gmane.org (- - s r b - -) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 08:31:36 -0400 Subject: Which pop3 e-mail encryption is best? Message-ID: <412B3528.300@295.ca> Hi, I want to start using e-mail encryption, but don't know where to start. Can someone recommend what they are using and/or point me in the right direction to find out more? Thanks for any help! -Steve. -- - - s r b - - mozilla 1.7.2 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 24 14:23:23 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:23:23 -0400 Subject: Which pop3 e-mail encryption is best? In-Reply-To: <412B3528.300-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <412B3528.300@295.ca> Message-ID: <412B4F5B.9050209@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - - - s r b - - wrote: | Hi, | | I want to start using e-mail encryption, but don't know where to start. | Can someone recommend what they are using and/or point me in the right | direction to find out more? If you own the server that's hosting your mail, then there are lots of options. The best is probably to set up IPSec, the easiest (in my experience at least) is an ssh tunnel. If you don't own the server that's hosting your email, then your wasting time asking this group. Call your ISP and ask them what they offer instead. And don't expect them to "support" it unless you're willing to pay a premium. - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBK09Zgfzn5SevSpoRAveHAJ9cQASiYizJr0yGXanQ7CO73AH1JgCgqDLK 0/TlQY7XpMrSBw6zSBx5erU= =8iRf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 24 14:36:44 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 10:36:44 -0400 Subject: Which pop3 e-mail encryption is best? In-Reply-To: <412B3528.300-sKcZck+fQKg@public.gmane.org> References: <412B3528.300@295.ca> Message-ID: <20040824143644.GB19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Tue, Aug 24, 2004 at 08:31:36AM -0400, - - s r b - - wrote: > I want to start using e-mail encryption, but don't know where to start. > Can someone recommend what they are using and/or point me in the right > direction to find out more? > > Thanks for any help! Well you could use pop3 with ssl if the server supports it (and your mail client does), although it is mainly to protect your login/password info. If your think the ISP protects your pacekts from other users on their network, I guess it doesn't matter too much. If you access our pop mail from a connection other than a direct connection to the ISP, then it does matter. To protect the contents of your message use gpg or pgp. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 03:25:20 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2004 23:25:20 -0400 Subject: I got idea to share. In-Reply-To: <20040819190848.58BC51BAFAA-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org> References: <4124AF9D.3090101@deeptown.org> <20040819190848.58BC51BAFAA@outbox.allstream.net> Message-ID: <412C06A0.7060305@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Perhaps you can use RSS feeds on the customer side to get the pricing information. On the vendor side, a "get" request to a CGI script may be a good way to update the info. Or just use a web-based interface. fcsoft-3Emkkp+1Olsmp8TqCH86vg at public.gmane.org wrote: | Maybe this could be implemented as a peer to peer type of application with | some "Napster like" search software overseeing the whole show. | | Maybe it could be implemented in the form of a small local network appliance | which can be programmed to grab relevant pricing info from a Net broadcast | "ticker tape type" pricing stream ... similar technology to Internet radio. | | Maybe it could be implemented as a distributed network of specialized | appliances that reside at the grocery stores that can be easily updated at | that end and can be easily queried through some wget like software. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBLAafRreNkzrRRLQRAtEAAJwM04fqdbl7N/F8P6PBaukJ+SUXIgCfe8kl u0bfaN0mXhJC69k9AAQryko= =rPj3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 05:17:32 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 01:17:32 -0400 Subject: Samba and Gnome Message-ID: <1093411052.412c20ec71631@neko.afraid.org> I am running nautilus 2.7.4, gnome-vfs 2.7.91, and gnome-vfs-extras 2.7.91 and everything works pretty well except for accessing Samba shares. The problem is that I need to authenticate for every file in a share. For example, if a folder has 10 items in it, I need to authenticate 11 times (the folder and all items) before I can see anything. The authentication doesn't seem to get stored anywhere. I guess that this has to do with the lack of mime-types that ship with the dev release, but I may be wrong. Does anyone have this working properly? If so, how did you do it? Alternately, any recommendations where I can look for help. The gnomedesktop forums are fairly useless. I imagine that I should join a gnome mailing list, but don't know which one. Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 11:21:15 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:21:15 -0400 Subject: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert Message-ID: <412C762B.9020100@canada.com> Hi All, As I know that some of us are looking for the new job, I found that on Workopolis this morning (Linux Solutions Expert / Virgin Mobile Canada). http://jobs.workopolis.com/jobshome/db/work.job_posting?pi_job_id=7010250 Good luck.. Gilles -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 11:37:22 2004 From: mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:37:22 -0400 Subject: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert In-Reply-To: <412C762B.9020100-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <412C762B.9020100@canada.com> Message-ID: <1093433841.12559.395.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com> On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 07:21, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > As I know that some of us are looking for the new job, I found that on > Workopolis this morning (Linux Solutions Expert / Virgin Mobile > Canada). Great subject line. How did my spamassassin miss it? Mike -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 11:44:07 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 07:44:07 -0400 Subject: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert In-Reply-To: <1093433841.12559.395.camel-hSSUUFrJ1eHKo1lsMQEj1AC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org> References: <412C762B.9020100@canada.com> <1093433841.12559.395.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com> Message-ID: <412C7B87.1040003@canada.com> Perhaps because it is not one. Michael Hill wrote: >On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 07:21, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > > > >>As I know that some of us are looking for the new job, I found that on >>Workopolis this morning (Linux Solutions Expert / Virgin Mobile >>Canada). >> >> > >Great subject line. How did my spamassassin miss it? > >Mike > >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 14:06:24 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:06:24 -0400 Subject: Samba and Gnome Message-ID: Hey Noah! I have many samba shares that I can access with nautilus. Have you tried specifying the UID=USER when you mount the share? How is samba configured? Martin Duclos I am running nautilus 2.7.4, gnome-vfs 2.7.91, and gnome-vfs-extras 2.7.91 and everything works pretty well except for accessing Samba shares. The problem is that I need to authenticate for every file in a share. For example, if a folder has 10 items in it, I need to authenticate 11 times (the folder and all items) before I can see anything. The authentication doesn't seem to get stored anywhere. I guess that this has to do with the lack of mime-types that ship with the dev release, but I may be wrong. Does anyone have this working properly? If so, how did you do it? Alternately, any recommendations where I can look for help. The gnomedesktop forums are fairly useless. I imagine that I should join a gnome mailing list, but don't know which one. Noah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special stationery, fonts and colors. http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 14:36:07 2004 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:36:07 +0300 Subject: Samba and Gnome Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 14:40:52 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:40:52 -0400 Subject: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert Message-ID: I doubt how many "Linux solution experts" will have "Experience with code deployment requirements for J2EE, clustered environments." -----Original Message----- From: Gilles Fourchet [mailto:gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 25, 2004 7:21 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert Hi All, As I know that some of us are looking for the new job, I found that on Workopolis this morning (Linux Solutions Expert / Virgin Mobile Canada). http://jobs.workopolis.com/jobshome/db/work.job_posting?pi_job_id=7010250 Good luck.. Gilles -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml !DSPAM:412c7674211146614514141! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 14:48:30 2004 From: fiala-WCaKCDwya6ZYzD5mSbZInQ at public.gmane.org (george fiala) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:48:30 -0400 Subject: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1093445310.1423.13.camel@IQPartnersfiala.netscreen-5> Actually, as a recruiter, that specializes in Linux, Wireless and Security people, you'd be surprised how many of them there are, BTW: Virgin is also a client of ours. George. On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 10:40, Phillip Qin wrote: > I doubt how many "Linux solution experts" will have "Experience with > code deployment requirements for J2EE, clustered environments." > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gilles Fourchet [mailto:gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org] > Sent: August 25, 2004 7:21 AM > To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org > Subject: [TLUG]: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert > > > Hi All, > > As I know that some of us are looking for the new job, I found that on > Workopolis this morning (Linux Solutions Expert / Virgin Mobile > Canada). > > http://jobs.workopolis.com/jobshome/db/work.job_posting?pi_job_id=7010250 > > Good luck.. > > Gilles > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How > to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > !DSPAM:412c7674211146614514141! G E O R G E F I A L A Director IQ Partners, Inc 99 Spadina Avenue, Suite 650 416.599.4700 x224 Toronto, Ontario M8V 5P3 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 14:39:16 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 10:39:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [OT] Virgin is looking for a Linux Expert In-Reply-To: <412C762B.9020100-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <412C762B.9020100@canada.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > Hi All, > > As I know that some of us are looking for the new job, I found that on > Workopolis this morning (Linux Solutions Expert / Virgin Mobile Canada). > > http://jobs.workopolis.com/jobshome/db/work.job_posting?pi_job_id=7010250 The airline Virgin Blue, the Australian subsiduary of Virgin is renowned for using Linux on all or most of their servers. They have been doing this for many years. Looks like it applies to other parts of the empire too. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 15:25:34 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:25:34 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable Message-ID: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Hi Everyone, I'm trying to install certain packages from unstable (i.e. Request Tracker 3.2) onto a debian stable server, and I need apt to satisfy all the related dependancies -- upgrading to perl 5.8.4, among others (there's about 30 or so to satisfy). I have tried with the following lines in /etc/apt/sources.list: -------- deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian stable main non-free contrib deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian unstable main non-free contrib -------- but when I run apt-get update I receive errors when apt is merging the packages: -------- Reading Package Lists... Error! E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room E: Error occured while processing plptools-dev (NewPackage) E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/apt/lists/debian.yorku.ca_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. -------- I've tried firing apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 , but not surprisingly it tells me that the package cannot be found. Am I going about this the wrong way, is there some other method to pull packages from unstable & satisfying dependancies without upgrading whole system to unstable? I've also considered commenting out the stable line in sources.list, but I'm not keen on upgrading other packages than what I really need to run Request Tracker 3.2. I guess I could always pull down individual .deb packages for each of the dependancies, but that seems terribly inefficient, and prone to error. Finally I've looked at "Tracking a distribution using APT" in the debian reference manual, but it's not clear to me the benefit of pursuing this line of action against unstable. Thoughts anyone? Any help would be appreciated. I do apologise if this has already been covered in a previous posting. I tried to search the list on gmane but it kept timing out. :( Thanks again in advance, -- michael -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 15:26:02 2004 From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:26:02 -0400 Subject: Samba and Gnome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040825112602.5bb7da00.joehill@sympatico.ca> On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 17:36:07 +0300 E K disseminated the following: > Why use samba in the first place to share files among Unix/Linux boxes? Why > not use nfs? >From what I've heard, Samba can be made more secure, and is easier to configure, say with Webmin or Swat. I know personally I found it much easier dealing with Samba than NFS; as for the more secure part, I have no direct experience with that, but I've read several pieces comparing the two and finding Samba a bit more bullet proof. Try Googling 'samba vs. nfs' and see whatcha get :-) -- JoeHill RLU #282046 / www.freeyourmachine.org 11:21:23 up 21 days, 11:05, 9 users, load average: 1.23, 0.69, 0.27 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++ There are literally several levels of SCO being wrong. And even if we were to live in that alternate universe where SCO would be right, they'd still be wrong. -- Linus Torvalds -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 15:30:23 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:30:23 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <1093447533.4013.16.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <412CB08F.3020607@canada.com> The only time I saw these kind of messages was when I had an Internet connection problem. I believe that means that unstable at York University is not reachable. Try to access to http://debian.yorku.ca/debian via your web browser to see. Gilles Michael Coburn wrote: >Hi Everyone, > >I'm trying to install certain packages from unstable (i.e. Request >Tracker 3.2) onto a debian stable server, and I need apt to satisfy all >the related dependancies -- upgrading to perl 5.8.4, among others >(there's about 30 or so to satisfy). > >I have tried with the following lines in /etc/apt/sources.list: >-------- >deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian stable main non-free contrib >deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free >deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian unstable main non-free contrib >-------- >but when I run apt-get update I receive errors when apt is merging the >packages: >-------- >Reading Package Lists... Error! >E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room >E: Error occured while processing plptools-dev (NewPackage) >E: Problem with MergeList >/var/lib/apt/lists/debian.yorku.ca_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_Packages >E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. >-------- >I've tried firing apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 , but >not surprisingly it tells me that the package cannot be found. > >Am I going about this the wrong way, is there some other method to pull >packages from unstable & satisfying dependancies without upgrading whole >system to unstable? I've also considered commenting out the stable line >in sources.list, but I'm not keen on upgrading other packages than what >I really need to run Request Tracker 3.2. I guess I could always pull >down individual .deb packages for each of the dependancies, but that >seems terribly inefficient, and prone to error. Finally I've looked at >"Tracking a distribution using APT" in the debian reference manual, but >it's not clear to me the benefit of pursuing this line of action against >unstable. Thoughts anyone? > >Any help would be appreciated. I do apologise if this has already been >covered in a previous posting. I tried to search the list on gmane but >it kept timing out. :( > >Thanks again in advance, >-- >michael >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 15:50:33 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 11:50:33 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <1093447533.4013.16.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 11:25:34AM -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I'm trying to install certain packages from unstable (i.e. Request > Tracker 3.2) onto a debian stable server, and I need apt to satisfy all > the related dependancies -- upgrading to perl 5.8.4, among others > (there's about 30 or so to satisfy). > > I have tried with the following lines in /etc/apt/sources.list: > -------- > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian stable main non-free contrib > deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian unstable main non-free contrib > -------- > but when I run apt-get update I receive errors when apt is merging the > packages: > -------- > Reading Package Lists... Error! > E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room > E: Error occured while processing plptools-dev (NewPackage) > E: Problem with MergeList > /var/lib/apt/lists/debian.yorku.ca_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_ Packages > E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. The handy dpkg bot on irc.debian.org's #Debian channel has this to say: 11:44 mmap 11:44 it has been said that dynamic mmap is "E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room" when using apt-get, put the following line into your /etc/apt/apt.conf: 'APT::Cache-Limit 12582912;' . if you still get the same error, increase the value. if that file doesn't exist add it, or put it in a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ It happens because the apt on woody never expected to deal with 15000 packages that are now in sarge and runs out of memory for it's cache. The above setting changes the default to something larger that should help. People have also run in to this if they have a lot of unofficial apt sources they get packages from. > -------- > I've tried firing apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 , but > not surprisingly it tells me that the package cannot be found. > > Am I going about this the wrong way, is there some other method to pull > packages from unstable & satisfying dependancies without upgrading whole > system to unstable? I've also considered commenting out the stable line > in sources.list, but I'm not keen on upgrading other packages than what > I really need to run Request Tracker 3.2. I guess I could always pull > down individual .deb packages for each of the dependancies, but that > seems terribly inefficient, and prone to error. Finally I've looked at > "Tracking a distribution using APT" in the debian reference manual, but > it's not clear to me the benefit of pursuing this line of action against > unstable. Thoughts anyone? > > Any help would be appreciated. I do apologise if this has already been > covered in a previous posting. I tried to search the list on gmane but > it kept timing out. :( > > Thanks again in advance, If possible, you should get it from a backports source since then it will have been rebuilt to use the libs that are already in woody rather than having to upgrade the majority of woody to another version just to install one program which most likely doesn't really care which version of the libraries it uses. Check www.backports.org and www.apt-get.org Woody (stable) and sarge (testing)/sid(unstable) are so far apart (over 2 years) that very little is in common between them. Mixing packages between them is really not a good idea. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 16:24:41 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:24:41 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <20040825155033.GC19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Much thanks Lennart, I was hoping you'd be available to comment. 1. your suggestion to bump up the cache limit worked. Thank you. :-) 2. Neither backports.org nor apt-get.org have request-tracker. :( I've issued the command apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 and have received a listing of 33 upgraded packages, and 63 new ones (Request Tracker uses over 160 different perl modules!). 95% of the packages are perl-related, so I'm ok with mixing these versions on this server. The only two that concern me are upgrades to: libc6 libc6-dev apache apache-common I'm not overly worried about apache either, as unstable only takes it from 1.3.26 -> 1.3.31. Before I select "Y to proceed", I'm curious if I'm about to pooch the system by mixing versions of libc6 (stable = 2.2.5 , unstable = 2.3.2). Is this a critical issue? Does libc6 get upgraded, or do two versions remain on the system, and the related apps that were built with each version "know" which one to use? Will it be possible to downgrade? Also thanks Gilles for your suggestions. see #1 above for the fix. -- michael On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 11:50, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 11:25:34AM -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I'm trying to install certain packages from unstable (i.e. Request > > Tracker 3.2) onto a debian stable server, and I need apt to satisfy all > > the related dependancies -- upgrading to perl 5.8.4, among others > > (there's about 30 or so to satisfy). > > > > I have tried with the following lines in /etc/apt/sources.list: > > -------- > > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian stable main non-free contrib > > deb http://security.debian.org/ stable/updates main contrib non-free > > deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian unstable main non-free contrib > > -------- > > but when I run apt-get update I receive errors when apt is merging the > > packages: > > -------- > > Reading Package Lists... Error! > > E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room > > E: Error occured while processing plptools-dev (NewPackage) > > E: Problem with MergeList > > /var/lib/apt/lists/debian.yorku.ca_debian_dists_unstable_main_binary-i386_ > Packages > > E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened. > > The handy dpkg bot on irc.debian.org's #Debian channel has this to say: > 11:44 mmap > 11:44 it has been said that dynamic mmap is "E: Dynamic MMap ran > out of room" when using apt-get, put the following line into your > /etc/apt/apt.conf: 'APT::Cache-Limit 12582912;' . if you still get > the same error, increase the value. if that file doesn't exist add it, > or put it in a file in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/ > > It happens because the apt on woody never expected to deal with 15000 > packages that are now in sarge and runs out of memory for it's cache. > The above setting changes the default to something larger that should > help. People have also run in to this if they have a lot of unofficial > apt sources they get packages from. > > > -------- > > I've tried firing apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 , but > > not surprisingly it tells me that the package cannot be found. > > > > Am I going about this the wrong way, is there some other method to pull > > packages from unstable & satisfying dependancies without upgrading whole > > system to unstable? I've also considered commenting out the stable line > > in sources.list, but I'm not keen on upgrading other packages than what > > I really need to run Request Tracker 3.2. I guess I could always pull > > down individual .deb packages for each of the dependancies, but that > > seems terribly inefficient, and prone to error. Finally I've looked at > > "Tracking a distribution using APT" in the debian reference manual, but > > it's not clear to me the benefit of pursuing this line of action against > > unstable. Thoughts anyone? > > > > Any help would be appreciated. I do apologise if this has already been > > covered in a previous posting. I tried to search the list on gmane but > > it kept timing out. :( > > > > Thanks again in advance, > > If possible, you should get it from a backports source since then it > will have been rebuilt to use the libs that are already in woody rather > than having to upgrade the majority of woody to another version just to > install one program which most likely doesn't really care which version > of the libraries it uses. > > Check www.backports.org and www.apt-get.org > > Woody (stable) and sarge (testing)/sid(unstable) are so far apart (over > 2 years) that very little is in common between them. Mixing packages > between them is really not a good idea. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 16:47:15 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:47:15 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <20040825164039.GD19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825164039.GD19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <412CC293.9070808@canada.com> Lennart Sorensen wrote: >If you go that far, you may as well upgrade to sarge and stick with it >until it's released (which should be sometime this year). > > I am using Sarge on different systems for quite a while without any problems. >I suspect requesttracker is in testing (sarge) at probably a very >similar version if not the same as in unstable. > > Request-Tracker 1 is in Stable. Request-Tracker 3 is in both Testing (sarge) and Unstable (Sid). However, if you really need a more up to date version (3.2), request-tracker3.2 is only available with unstable. Hope this help. Gilles -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 16:55:39 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:55:39 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <1093451081.4013.78.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:24:41 -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > Much thanks Lennart, I was hoping you'd be available to comment. > > 1. your suggestion to bump up the cache limit worked. Thank you. :-) > 2. Neither backports.org nor apt-get.org have request-tracker. :( > > I've issued the command apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 > and have received a listing of 33 upgraded packages, and 63 new ones > (Request Tracker uses over 160 different perl modules!). 95% of the > packages are perl-related, so I'm ok with mixing these versions on this > server. The only two that concern me are upgrades to: > libc6 > libc6-dev When I tried upgrading libc from stable on my netwinder it left nothing but errors and a totally unuseable system in the end. I was overjoyed when I recently found an 'unstable' installer, which worked (after tweaking, so that it would actually boot). -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 17:01:30 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:01:30 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <412CC293.9070808-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825164039.GD19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <412CC293.9070808@canada.com> Message-ID: <1093453290.4379.15.camel@nelson.michener.ca> yup, RT 1 (Jan 2001) works but is quite feature-less. testing ships a version from end of May 2004. Gilles you run testing on a production server, www.debian.org/security/ doesn't have a deb entry against testing..?!? isn't this a _bad_ thing? -- michael On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 12:47, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > Lennart Sorensen wrote: > > >If you go that far, you may as well upgrade to sarge and stick with it > >until it's released (which should be sometime this year). > > > > > I am using Sarge on different systems for quite a while without any > problems. > > >I suspect requesttracker is in testing (sarge) at probably a very > >similar version if not the same as in unstable. > > > > > Request-Tracker 1 is in Stable. Request-Tracker 3 is in both Testing > (sarge) and Unstable (Sid). However, if you really need a more up to > date version (3.2), request-tracker3.2 is only available with unstable. > > Hope this help. > > Gilles > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 16:51:29 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:51:29 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <20040825164039.GD19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825164039.GD19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1093452689.4379.4.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Again much thanks Lennart for helping me avert a potential system failure. I've decided that we're not going to upgrade libc6 on a production server until we can fully test it on a spare box. I'll post again when we have a working Request Tracker system :-) -- michael On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 12:40, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 12:24:41PM -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > > Much thanks Lennart, I was hoping you'd be available to comment. > > > > 1. your suggestion to bump up the cache limit worked. Thank you. :-) > > 2. Neither backports.org nor apt-get.org have request-tracker. :( > > > > I've issued the command apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 > > and have received a listing of 33 upgraded packages, and 63 new ones > > (Request Tracker uses over 160 different perl modules!). 95% of the > > packages are perl-related, so I'm ok with mixing these versions on this > > server. The only two that concern me are upgrades to: > > libc6 > > libc6-dev > > Once you upgrade libc, you are NOT running woody anymore at all. > > If you go that far, you may as well upgrade to sarge and stick with it > until it's released (which should be sometime this year). > > I suspect requesttracker is in testing (sarge) at probably a very > similar version if not the same as in unstable. > > > apache > > apache-common > > > > I'm not overly worried about apache either, as unstable only takes it > > from 1.3.26 -> 1.3.31. > > > > Before I select "Y to proceed", I'm curious if I'm about to pooch the > > system by mixing versions of libc6 (stable = 2.2.5 , unstable = 2.3.2). > > Is this a critical issue? Does libc6 get upgraded, or do two versions > > remain on the system, and the related apps that were built with each > > version "know" which one to use? Will it be possible to downgrade? > > > > Also thanks Gilles for your suggestions. see #1 above for the fix. > > It is certainly possible (quite likely really) that a libc upgrade can > break programs if they expect a different release entirely (2.2 vs. > 2.3). > > If you are going to upgrade libc, I say upgrade it all (to testing, not > unstable). The majority of packages in unstable can install on testing > with very little impact on other packages in general. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 16:40:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 12:40:39 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <1093451081.4013.78.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <20040825164039.GD19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 12:24:41PM -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > Much thanks Lennart, I was hoping you'd be available to comment. > > 1. your suggestion to bump up the cache limit worked. Thank you. :-) > 2. Neither backports.org nor apt-get.org have request-tracker. :( > > I've issued the command apt-get install -t unstable request-tracker3.2 > and have received a listing of 33 upgraded packages, and 63 new ones > (Request Tracker uses over 160 different perl modules!). 95% of the > packages are perl-related, so I'm ok with mixing these versions on this > server. The only two that concern me are upgrades to: > libc6 > libc6-dev Once you upgrade libc, you are NOT running woody anymore at all. If you go that far, you may as well upgrade to sarge and stick with it until it's released (which should be sometime this year). I suspect requesttracker is in testing (sarge) at probably a very similar version if not the same as in unstable. > apache > apache-common > > I'm not overly worried about apache either, as unstable only takes it > from 1.3.26 -> 1.3.31. > > Before I select "Y to proceed", I'm curious if I'm about to pooch the > system by mixing versions of libc6 (stable = 2.2.5 , unstable = 2.3.2). > Is this a critical issue? Does libc6 get upgraded, or do two versions > remain on the system, and the related apps that were built with each > version "know" which one to use? Will it be possible to downgrade? > > Also thanks Gilles for your suggestions. see #1 above for the fix. It is certainly possible (quite likely really) that a libc upgrade can break programs if they expect a different release entirely (2.2 vs. 2.3). If you are going to upgrade libc, I say upgrade it all (to testing, not unstable). The majority of packages in unstable can install on testing with very little impact on other packages in general. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 17:29:09 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:29:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <1093453290.4379.15.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825164039.GD19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <412CC293.9070808@canada.com> <1093453290.4379.15.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Michael Coburn wrote: > yup, RT 1 (Jan 2001) works but is quite feature-less. testing ships a > version from end of May 2004. RT1 also has an exploit (remote IIRC). The announcement said the developers would not be pursuing a fix but would incorporate one if someone else did. I haven't heard any more and afaik RT1 still has the exploit. Security Focus should have details. Besides (as you note) RT1 is featureless. RT3 rocks. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 17:47:14 2004 From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:47:14 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <1093453290.4379.15.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825164039.GD19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <412CC293.9070808@canada.com> <1093453290.4379.15.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <412CD0A2.3060406@canada.com> I have to be honest: it is not production as per a company definition. It is production as per my definition. I have a network at home with a firewall (2.6.8.1 + iptables) and a server (nfs, samba, dns, dhcpd, apache, etc). I am using Sarge for about 4/5 months now without any problems. I am doing an update from time to time (apt-get update ; apt-get dist-upgrade) but I never had a lot of updates requested. Let me know if you need further information. Gilles Michael Coburn wrote: >yup, RT 1 (Jan 2001) works but is quite feature-less. testing ships a >version from end of May 2004. > >Gilles you run testing on a production server, www.debian.org/security/ >doesn't have a deb entry against testing..?!? isn't this a _bad_ thing? >-- >michael > >On Wed, 2004-08-25 at 12:47, Gilles Fourchet wrote: > > >>Lennart Sorensen wrote: >> >> >> >>>If you go that far, you may as well upgrade to sarge and stick with it >>>until it's released (which should be sometime this year). >>> >>> >>> >>> >>I am using Sarge on different systems for quite a while without any >>problems. >> >> >> >>>I suspect requesttracker is in testing (sarge) at probably a very >>>similar version if not the same as in unstable. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Request-Tracker 1 is in Stable. Request-Tracker 3 is in both Testing >>(sarge) and Unstable (Sid). However, if you really need a more up to >>date version (3.2), request-tracker3.2 is only available with unstable. >> >>Hope this help. >> >>Gilles >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> >> >-- >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 17:50:02 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:50:02 -0400 Subject: Question; when is TCO of linux 10 times as much as Windows ??? Message-ID: <20040825175002.GA19798@m1800> Answer; when you're comparing linux on a 2-cpu IBM mainframe (US$ 375,000) versus Windows on a dual-Xeon (US$ 4,000). Somebody in the UK complained to their ASA (Advertising Standards Agency) about misleading advertising. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=18067 The advert appeared in an IT magazine and was headed: "Weighing the cost of Linux vs Windows? Let's review the facts". The ad contained a graph comparing the cost in US dollars between a Linux images running on two z900 mainframe CPUs and a Windows Server 2003 image running two 900MHz Intel Xeons chips. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 17:57:28 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 13:57:28 -0400 Subject: Happy birthday to us Message-ID: <20040825175728.GB19798@m1800> Happy birthday to us Happy birthday to us Happy birthday dear linux Happy birthday to us > Message-ID: 1991Aug25.205708.9541-LXOUoGGi5hojxog6bMmI4Mc4bpwCjbIv at public.gmane.org > From: torvalds-LXOUoGGi5hojxog6bMmI4Mc4bpwCjbIv at public.gmane.org (Linus Benedict Torvalds) > To: Newsgroups: comp.os.minix > Subject: What would you like to see most in minix? > Summary: small poll for my new operating system > > Hello everybody out there using minix-I'm doing a (free) > operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional > like gnu) for 386 (486) AT clones. This has been brewing since > april, and is starting to get ready. I'd like any feedback on > things people like/dislike in minix, as my OS resembles it > somewhat > > Any suggestions are welcome, but I won't promise I'll implement them :-) > > Linus -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 18:05:32 2004 From: cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 14:05:32 -0400 Subject: Happy birthday to us In-Reply-To: <20040825175728.GB19798@m1800> References: <20040825175728.GB19798@m1800> Message-ID: <412CD4EC.60302@digitalfairway.com> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote: (just a hobby, won't be big and professional >>like gnu) for 386 (486) Man. What a difference 13 years make ;) -- sniff -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 20:11:53 2004 From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:11:53 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Charity Software development shops? Message-ID: <20040825201153.90085.qmail@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Does anyone on the list know of a charity software development shop that will do some teaching in the G.T.A.? One of the volunteers down at reSource ask me this question, and I didn't have an answer for her. ReSource's thing is taking old computers refurbishing them and then getting them out into the community, so lots of hands on hardware handling, but not much in the way of software work (OS installs don't count). In other words reSource has a woman who is currently on medical leave, wants to signifigantly improve her software development skill set (her current programming skills I gather are very modest) and she is looking to help a charity group. So, a related question, if there is no current charity software development shops, does anyone know of a large charity that does signifigant in-house software development that I could point this lady to? Colin McGregor -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 20:24:31 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 16:24:31 -0400 Subject: Charity Software development shops? In-Reply-To: <20040825201153.90085.qmail-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040825201153.90085.qmail@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040825202431.GA2600@node1.opengeometry.net> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 04:11:53PM -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: > Does anyone on the list know of a charity software > development shop that will do some teaching in the > G.T.A.? > > One of the volunteers down at reSource ask me this > question, and I didn't have an answer for her. > ReSource's thing is taking old computers refurbishing > them and then getting them out into the community, so > lots of hands on hardware handling, but not much in > the way of software work (OS installs don't count). In > other words reSource has a woman who is currently on > medical leave, wants to signifigantly improve her > software development skill set (her current > programming skills I gather are very modest) and she > is looking to help a charity group. > > So, a related question, if there is no current charity > software development shops, does anyone know of a > large charity that does signifigant in-house software > development that I could point this lady to? St. Christopher House (www.stchrishouse.org) have some IT programs. Not sure what they're doing now. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Wed Aug 25 22:25:41 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 18:25:41 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408221021.55690.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200408251825.41886.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 22, 2004 10:21 am, John Wildberger wrote: > What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? > My system is Mandrake 10. As others have mention chsh is the safest/easiest way to change a user's shell. If you meant "how do I make bash3 my default system shell?" (i.e. replacing /bin/sh) then I'd say the correct answer is don't do it ;-) -- broken /bin/sh usually would force you to boot up from rescue media. The bash 1 to 2 upgrade broke some scripts that we'd been running for a few years, I'd not be too surprised if bash 2 to 3 (based on history of 1 to 2 upgrade) also introduces some incompatibilities. If Mandrake provides a package for bash3 then they probably would have verified it's compatibility with their init scripts and it should be safe upgrade to that. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 00:30:03 2004 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 20:30:03 -0400 Subject: DVD writing woes Message-ID: <20040826003003.GA3713@socrates> I just got a Plextor 712A, which has gotten good reviews from Linux users for compatibility. I flashed the firmware to the latest available version, 1.04. It reliably and readily will read CDR, CDRW, DVD-video, DVD-R, DVD+R. (It should read the rewriteable DVDs too but I don't have any to test yet.) And it will write data DVD-R and DVD+R with growisofs, though not, I should note, with dvdrecord (which returns a SCSI error at the first write command). What I somehow can't do -- why not? -- is to write a readable DVD-video. It might not be the fault of the Plextor, though. Here's what I've done: 1. Run dvdbackup on a DVD-video, which creates a "mirror image" of the structure on the DVD. The command: # dvdbackup -M -i/dev/dvd -o/temp/DVD/ This creates a structure under the name of the DVD -- say, 7THSEAL (for Bergman's "The Seventh Seal"), a directory that contains VIDEO_TS which itself contains the actual .VOB files and so on. 2. Run growisofs on the ripped image, preserving the structure of the files (and the capitalization): # growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd -dvd-video /temp/DVD/7THSEAL/ Here the option "-dvd-video" is passed to mkisofs to get the files in the right order for writing, and "-dvd-compat" gives compatibility with commercial DVD-video formats; the "-Z" means to burn the first session on the blank DVD-/+R. And that's it... growisofs executes this command with no complaints, and the result should be a DVD-video. But when I try to play it on the computer I get the message that dvdcss can't open /dev/dvd (?), and my home DVD deck, a Panasonic that claims to support DVD-R, does not recognize it. Any ideas, suggestions, advice? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-3788 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 01:47:17 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 21:47:17 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408251825.41886.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408251825.41886.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <200408252147.17603.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Wednesday 25 August 2004 06:25 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: > On August 22, 2004 10:21 am, John Wildberger wrote: > > What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? > > My system is Mandrake 10. > > As others have mention chsh is the safest/easiest way to change a user's > shell. > > If you meant "how do I make bash3 my default system shell?" (i.e. > replacing /bin/sh) then I'd say the correct answer is don't do it ;-) -- > broken /bin/sh usually would force you to boot up from rescue media. > > The bash 1 to 2 upgrade broke some scripts that we'd been running for a few > years, I'd not be too surprised if bash 2 to 3 (based on history of 1 to 2 > upgrade) also introduces some incompatibilities. If Mandrake provides a > package for bash3 then they probably would have verified it's compatibility > with their init scripts and it should be safe upgrade to that. I think you are a bit overcautious. I will take the risk and make bash-3.0 my default shell. Replacing /bin/bash with a symlink to my new bash-3.0 will do this just fine. There is always a risk that something can get broken, but this applies to any new program, not just to bash. The sun will still rise in the morning. Cheers, John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 02:31:59 2004 From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Bulk] Re:bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408252147.17603.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408251825.41886.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200408252147.17603.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > On Wednesday 25 August 2004 06:25 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote: >> On August 22, 2004 10:21 am, John Wildberger wrote: >>> What do I have to do to invoke bash 3.01 when starting up the system? >>> My system is Mandrake 10. >> >> As others have mention chsh is the safest/easiest way to change a user's >> shell. >> >> If you meant "how do I make bash3 my default system shell?" (i.e. >> replacing /bin/sh) then I'd say the correct answer is don't do it ;-) -- >> broken /bin/sh usually would force you to boot up from rescue media. >> >> The bash 1 to 2 upgrade broke some scripts that we'd been running for a few >> years, I'd not be too surprised if bash 2 to 3 (based on history of 1 to 2 >> upgrade) also introduces some incompatibilities. If Mandrake provides a >> package for bash3 then they probably would have verified it's compatibility >> with their init scripts and it should be safe upgrade to that. > > I think you are a bit overcautious. I will take the risk and make bash-3.0 my > default shell. Replacing /bin/bash with a symlink to my new bash-3.0 will do > this just fine. There is always a risk that something can get broken, but > this applies to any new program, not just to bash. The sun will still rise in > the morning. I installed 3.0 as my default shell within a couple of days of its release. There have been a few minor bugs reported, but nothing serious, and I have had no problems. Bash 3.0 does not differ greatly from 2.05; there was a much bigger difference between bash1 and bash2. -- Chris F.A. Johnson http://cfaj.freeshell.org ================================================================= Everything in moderation -- including moderation -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 02:53:45 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:53:45 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408252147.17603.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408251825.41886.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200408252147.17603.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <412D50B9.30209@sympatico.ca> John Wildberger wrote: > > I think you are a bit overcautious. I will take the risk and make bash-3.0 my > default shell. Replacing /bin/bash with a symlink to my new bash-3.0 will do > this just fine. Well, de'il mend ye if it goes wrong -- Fraser warned you. As someone who has had a login shell change go wrong, I can say it's a very annoying experience. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 02:56:48 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:56:48 -0400 Subject: DVD writing woes In-Reply-To: <20040826003003.GA3713@socrates> References: <20040826003003.GA3713@socrates> Message-ID: <20040826025648.GF19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 08:30:03PM -0400, Peter King wrote: > I just got a Plextor 712A, which has gotten good reviews from > Linux users for compatibility. I flashed the firmware to the > latest available version, 1.04. It reliably and readily will > read CDR, CDRW, DVD-video, DVD-R, DVD+R. (It should read the > rewriteable DVDs too but I don't have any to test yet.) And it > will write data DVD-R and DVD+R with growisofs, though not, I > should note, with dvdrecord (which returns a SCSI error at the > first write command). > > What I somehow can't do -- why not? -- is to write a readable > DVD-video. It might not be the fault of the Plextor, though. > Here's what I've done: > > 1. Run dvdbackup on a DVD-video, which creates a "mirror image" > of the structure on the DVD. The command: > > # dvdbackup -M -i/dev/dvd -o/temp/DVD/ > > This creates a structure under the name of the DVD -- say, > 7THSEAL (for Bergman's "The Seventh Seal"), a directory that > contains VIDEO_TS which itself contains the actual .VOB files > and so on. What is dvdbackup? What does it use for writing and reading? Are you using ide or scsi access to the drive? With later 2.4 and all 2.6 kernels you should be using ide access. > 2. Run growisofs on the ripped image, preserving the structure > of the files (and the capitalization): > > # growisofs -dvd-compat -Z /dev/dvd -dvd-video /temp/DVD/7THSEAL/ > > Here the option "-dvd-video" is passed to mkisofs to get the > files in the right order for writing, and "-dvd-compat" gives > compatibility with commercial DVD-video formats; the "-Z" means > to burn the first session on the blank DVD-/+R. > > And that's it... growisofs executes this command with no complaints, > and the result should be a DVD-video. But when I try to play it on > the computer I get the message that dvdcss can't open /dev/dvd (?), > and my home DVD deck, a Panasonic that claims to support DVD-R, does > not recognize it. > > Any ideas, suggestions, advice? Are you writing the excact same files that the original DVD had to the new one? If so they are likely still encrypted and there is absolutely no way to write the css keys to a DVD-R or DVD+R on a dvd-writer (except the high end DVD-R(A) authoring drives where media is about $50 a piece). You must make sure the video files are not encypted with CSS at all before writing them to a DVD if you want them to work. The region on the disc where commercial DVDs have the decoding keys and copyroght info is unwritable (you can visibly see the line on many blank DVDs) I suspect this is why you get css decoding errors. Also you may want to look at the mkisofs options for making DVD video since you might need to pass some of those options at the end of growisofs. All the options at the end are passed directly to mkisofs. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 03:00:05 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:00:05 -0400 Subject: Shrinking the size of images in gimp In-Reply-To: <41111693.4030807-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1091631422.3191.10.camel@192.168.1.80> <200408041119.23346.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <1091633956.3191.16.camel@192.168.1.80> <41111693.4030807@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <412D5235.5050209@sympatico.ca> Anton Markov wrote: > > Granted, the Imagemagick resizing trick looks a lot simpler than the > perl script I wrote for The Gimp, but for more complex operations, Perl > scripting beats Photoshop's "Actions" any day! (better late than never, but ...) I've just found Perl's Image::Magick package, aka perlmagick. It gives you incredible quality if you use the 'Cubic' option in any scaling operation: Image example: -- 1.1mp image, cubic scaled from 6.1mp original. cheers, Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 03:03:46 2004 From: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:03:46 -0400 Subject: Question; when is TCO of linux 10 times as much as Windows ??? In-Reply-To: <20040825175002.GA19798@m1800> References: <20040825175002.GA19798@m1800> Message-ID: C'mon... are you really surprised Microsoft is resorting to these kind of tactics? It's right up their alley. Spread the FUD as much as possible, and eventually people may actually believe it. pm -- Paul Mora email: paulmora-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 03:18:14 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Taavi Burns) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:18:14 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <412D50B9.30209-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408251825.41886.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> <200408252147.17603.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <412D50B9.30209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 22:53:45 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Well, de'il mend ye if it goes wrong -- Fraser warned you. As someone > who has had a login shell change go wrong, I can say it's a very > annoying experience. Annoying, yes. Impossible...no. Do remember to keep a backup copy of the old /bin/sh or /bin/bash around. Then when booting, just pass init=/bin/oldbash and have fun. (this is also a good way to get root on a box with an insecure bootloader; no runlevels, no passwords, no hassle!) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 03:20:21 2004 From: Stan-PAleLrdANoqY+5vIsb+96wC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Stan Witkowski) Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2004 23:20:21 -0400 Subject: Charity Software development shops? In-Reply-To: <20040825201153.90085.qmail-p6KvMhi7PWKB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040825201153.90085.qmail@web88206.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20040825225847.00aa5660@mail.the-wire.com> At 04:11 PM 8/25/04 -0400, Colin McGregor wrote: >Does anyone on the list know of a charity software >development shop that will do some teaching in the >G.T.A.? Charities are not set up for this. Years ago, after losing my father and family friends to cancer, I went around to every organization I could find in Toronto and offered my services as a free programmer. I also offered to do ANYTHING that even touched on computers for free. By then I had worked in the computer field in Toronto for around 20 years. The collective response from about a dozen organizations was "Huh?!". They didn't know what to do with me, and in the end, despite some prodding from keen-and-eager me, all decided to do nothing. Princess Margaret was the worst: we ended up in a shouting match when they got it into their heads that I was trying to sneak in and get a full-time job. It was a surreal experience. It was the only time in my life that I caught myself shouting, "I'M NOT HERE FOR A DAMN JOB!!!" within a few minutes of coming in and offering to work for free. After I reeled out of the hospital I had to sit down for a bit while the "moment" passed. (It was the kind of thing screenplay writers collect and file under "weird moments for indie films"...) However: look into this: http://www.boardmatch.org/ Join the Board of Directors of a community non-profit organization as a contributing Director. [ I.E. You don't just attend Board meetings - you work as an unpaid volunteer using your skill set. From what I've seen they mostly need people in the areas of: fundraising and information technology. -Stan. ] Board candidates: - contribute expertise - expand skills - network Qualifications - Participating organizations are looking for individuals with the following characteristics: * Interest and enthusiasm * Youth to retirement age * Diversity in ethnicity and life experience * Post-secondary degree (preferred) * 2-3 years of work experience (preferred) * Accounting, engineering, finance, human resources, law, information technology, marketing, public relations, operations, sales, services etc. * Live or work in Greater Toronto Area ============================================================= Stan. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 05:44:26 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:44:26 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Question; when is TCO of linux 10 times as much as Windows ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20040825175002.GA19798@m1800> Message-ID: On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Paul Mora wrote: > C'mon... are you really surprised Microsoft is resorting to these kind > of tactics? It's right up their alley. Spread the FUD as much as > possible, and eventually people may actually believe it. Eventually? Many people seem to believe stuff just because it is in print. This is a bigger problem for society than attacks on OSS of course. Time to teach critical thinking in school methinks. Cheers, Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 05:59:14 2004 From: noah.gellner-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Noah John Gellner) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 01:59:14 -0400 Subject: Samba and Gnome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1093499954.412d7c32692d5@neko.afraid.org> I am accessing Windows shares, not samba shares. I am able to use my Linux box in a Windows environment, but not being able to access shares makes it less than smooth. I can access the shares using konqueror (3.3.0) To confirm, are you currently using the dev versions of nautilus? If so, what versions and on which distro? Quoting Martin Duclos : > Hey Noah! > > I have many samba shares that I can access with nautilus. Have you tried > specifying the UID=USER when you mount the share? How is samba configured? > > Martin Duclos > > > > I am running nautilus 2.7.4, gnome-vfs 2.7.91, and gnome-vfs-extras 2.7.91 > and > everything works pretty well except for accessing Samba shares. The problem > is > that I need to authenticate for every file in a share. For example, if a > folder > has 10 items in it, I need to authenticate 11 times (the folder and all > items) > before I can see anything. The authentication doesn't seem to get stored > anywhere. > > I guess that this has to do with the lack of mime-types that ship with the > dev > release, but I may be wrong. Does anyone have this working properly? If so, > how > did you do it? Alternately, any recommendations where I can look for help. > The > gnomedesktop forums are fairly useless. I imagine that I should join a gnome > mailing list, but don't know which one. > > Noah > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > _________________________________________________________________ > Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special > stationery, fonts and colors. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN? Premium right now and get the > first two months FREE*. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 15:43:14 2004 From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:43:14 -0400 Subject: Samba and Gnome Message-ID: Hmmm, I am using whichever is the newer versoin of nautilus on FC1. I was just making a quick suggestion of something to try. I guess you'll have to keep looking! I don't really have any leads that can help you for now. Mabe dev versions aren't the best thing to rely on... If I come across a way to fix it, I'll let you know. Martin I am accessing Windows shares, not samba shares. I am able to use my Linux box in a Windows environment, but not being able to access shares makes it less than smooth. I can access the shares using konqueror (3.3.0) To confirm, are you currently using the dev versions of nautilus? If so, what versions and on which distro? Quoting Martin Duclos : > Hey Noah! > > I have many samba shares that I can access with nautilus. Have you tried > specifying the UID=USER when you mount the share? How is samba configured? > > Martin Duclos > > > > I am running nautilus 2.7.4, gnome-vfs 2.7.91, and gnome-vfs-extras 2.7.91 > and > everything works pretty well except for accessing Samba shares. The problem > is > that I need to authenticate for every file in a share. For example, if a > folder > has 10 items in it, I need to authenticate 11 times (the folder and all > items) > before I can see anything. The authentication doesn't seem to get stored > anywhere. > > I guess that this has to do with the lack of mime-types that ship with the > dev > release, but I may be wrong. Does anyone have this working properly? If so, > how > did you do it? Alternately, any recommendations where I can look for help. > The > gnomedesktop forums are fairly useless. I imagine that I should join a gnome > mailing list, but don't know which one. > > Noah > > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > _________________________________________________________________ > Designer Mail isn't just fun to send, it's fun to receive. Use special > stationery, fonts and colors. > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the > first two months FREE*. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Take charge with a pop-up guard built on patented Microsoft?? SmartScreen Technology http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines Start enjoying all the benefits of MSN?? Premium right now and get the first two months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From gary.major-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 15:53:56 2004 From: gary.major-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Major) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 11:53:56 -0400 Subject: Wireless PCI Card Message-ID: <004601c48b84$e4f67ec0$7c2b1b31@tdbfg0fo2wxkyo> Hello folks, looking to put a wireless (801.11g) PCI card in my Linux router for my wireless network. I have done a fair amount of googling and it looks like anything with a prism chipset should work well. That being said however, seems the main manufacturers don't list the chipset they use in their products. I am thinking about a standard DLink/SMC/Linksys/Netgear card and would like to know if anyone can pass along what they may have used successfully. Many thanks. Gary -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 12:23:29 2004 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 12:23:29 +0000 Subject: Wireless PCI Card In-Reply-To: <004601c48b84$e4f67ec0$7c2b1b31@tdbfg0fo2wxkyo> References: <004601c48b84$e4f67ec0$7c2b1b31@tdbfg0fo2wxkyo> Message-ID: <200408261223.41210.jab@muskokatech.ca> If you are thinking of using the hostap driver, then I don't think any of the "g" products have supported chipsets. I successfully implemented this with a DLink DWL-520 rev E1 which is an 802.11b pci card. You need rev A, B, E1, or E if you want a prism chipset. I don't know about the other brands. I remember trying to find other models that have the prism chipset, but everyone is pushing the g products now, so it is tricky. Jeremy Baker On Thursday 26 August 2004 15:53, Gary Major wrote: > Hello folks, looking to put a wireless (801.11g) PCI card in my Linux > router for my wireless network. I have done a fair amount of googling and > it looks like anything with a prism chipset should work well. That being > said however, seems the main manufacturers don't list the chipset they use > in their products. > > I am thinking about a standard DLink/SMC/Linksys/Netgear card and would > like to know if anyone can pass along what they may have used successfully. > > Many thanks. > > Gary -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 17:05:43 2004 From: Phillip.Qin-szgMhqSEIEG+XT7JhA+gdA at public.gmane.org (Phillip Qin) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:05:43 -0400 Subject: Wireless PCI Card Message-ID: My understanding is, 1. The new 2.6 kernel supports "g". Just try SuSE 9.1 and you will find how easy wireless config is. 2. For WPA, there is no support for prism yet. Linksys shall be fine. -----Original Message----- From: Gary Major [mailto:gary.major-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org] Sent: August 26, 2004 11:54 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: [TLUG]: Wireless PCI Card Hello folks, looking to put a wireless (801.11g) PCI card in my Linux router for my wireless network. I have done a fair amount of googling and it looks like anything with a prism chipset should work well. That being said however, seems the main manufacturers don't list the chipset they use in their products. I am thinking about a standard DLink/SMC/Linksys/Netgear card and would like to know if anyone can pass along what they may have used successfully. Many thanks. Gary !DSPAM:412e07e048864472656570! -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 17:56:36 2004 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:56:36 -0400 Subject: Fedora updated, Ximian Evolution unhappy Message-ID: <1093542995.6551.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Hello all I just updated my Fedora 2 installation and now Ximian Evolution is unhappy. It complains with Cannot activate component OAFIID:GNOME_Evolution_Mail_ShellComponent: The error from the activation system is: Unknown CORBA exception id: 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/INV_OBJREF:1.0' I'm absolutely out to lunch on this. Can someone help me here? -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 18:00:52 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:00:52 -0400 Subject: Fedora updated, Ximian Evolution unhappy In-Reply-To: <1093542995.6551.4.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1093542995.6551.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <4386c5b2040826110059ca0a59@mail.gmail.com> My first move would be to uninstall and reinstall evolution. I use apt-get, so I would expect it to resolve any dependencies created since your update. Have you tried using apt-get for Fedora2? It's amazing. I found out about it at fedorafaq.com. Cheers, Aaron. On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 13:56:36 -0400, Alan Cohen wrote: > Hello all > > I just updated my Fedora 2 installation and now Ximian Evolution is > unhappy. It complains with > Cannot activate component > OAFIID:GNOME_Evolution_Mail_ShellComponent: > The error from the activation system is: > Unknown CORBA exception id: > 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/INV_OBJREF:1.0' > > I'm absolutely out to lunch on this. Can someone help me here? > > -- > Sincerely, > Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 > > > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 18:13:14 2004 From: alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 14:13:14 -0400 Subject: Fedora updated, Ximian Evolution unhappy FOLLOW UP In-Reply-To: <1093542995.6551.4.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <1093542995.6551.4.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <1093543993.2770.6.camel@tsx2.computeradvocacy.com> On Thu, 2004-08-26 at 13:56, Alan Cohen wrote: > Hello all > > I just updated my Fedora 2 installation and now Ximian Evolution is > unhappy. It complains with > Cannot activate component > OAFIID:GNOME_Evolution_Mail_ShellComponent: > The error from the activation system is: > Unknown CORBA exception id: > 'IDL:omg.org/CORBA/INV_OBJREF:1.0' > > I'm absolutely out to lunch on this. Can someone help me here? On a hunch, I re-booted. Lo' and behold I am composing this note in evolution of that system. The reboot (perhaps overkill) may have served to make things right... I wish I knew what was going on... Presumably, something was in memory from the pre-Fedora2-update that became inconsistent after the update. -- Alan Cohen Computer Advocacy Inc -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 19:42:38 2004 From: ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Hammond) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 15:42:38 -0400 Subject: Samba and Gnome In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <412E3D2E.90304@ca.afilias.info> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 E K wrote: | Why use samba in the first place to share files among Unix/Linux boxes? Why not | use nfs? I'd guess because he also has windows boxes on the network which wish to mount the same shares and doesn't want to have two different network filesystems to manage. You can do NFS on Window and it sorta works, but CIFS support is obviously way better. NFS on Linux has never been all that great anyway. At least, it's never managed to pass fsx.c - -- Andrew Hammond 416-673-4138 ahammond-swQf4SbcV9C7WVzo/KQ3Mw at public.gmane.org Database Administrator, Afilias Canada Corp. CB83 2838 4B67 D40F D086 3568 81FC E7E5 27AF 4A9A -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFBLj0qgfzn5SevSpoRApHkAJ4tPhhhWsk1L21PvJce1eYq5+ElHACeJgIt i2ixO5332ybbxrxu1PNPGgw= =58tt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 01:34:44 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 21:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Question; when is TCO of linux 10 times as much as Windows ??? In-Reply-To: References: <20040825175002.GA19798@m1800> Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Aug 2004, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Wed, 25 Aug 2004, Paul Mora wrote: > >> C'mon... are you really surprised Microsoft is resorting to these kind >> of tactics? It's right up their alley. Spread the FUD as much as >> possible, and eventually people may actually believe it. > > Eventually? Many people seem to believe stuff just because it is in > print. This is a bigger problem for society than attacks on OSS of > course. Time to teach critical thinking in school methinks. But the world is improving. Now many people give more credit to what they read on the internet versus the usual media sources (like local news and local papers). "Don't be a lone lemming when you can join millions". Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 20:33:06 2004 From: peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Peter King) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 16:33:06 -0400 Subject: DVD writing woes In-Reply-To: <20040826025648.GF19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040826003003.GA3713@socrates> <20040826025648.GF19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040826203306.GC6608@socrates> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 10:56:48PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > What is dvdbackup? What does it use for writing and reading? Are you > using ide or scsi access to the drive? With later 2.4 and all 2.6 > kernels you should be using ide access. Dvdbackup is a utility designed to extract data from video DVDs -- try apt-get -u install dvdbackup (at least under Debian testing). It will mirror the structure of the original DVD exactly, or just extract some files of your choosing. I'm running kernel 2.6.7-k7, with the Plextor as an ATAPI device, so that under dvdrecord I pass the option dev=ATAPI:0,0,0. (It doesn't help; dvdrecord crashes immediately anyway. Such is life.) I have enabled DMA access to the Plextor too. > Are you writing the excact same files that the original DVD had to the > new one? If so they are likely still encrypted and there is absolutely > no way to write the css keys to a DVD-R or DVD+R on a dvd-writer (except > the high end DVD-R(A) authoring drives where media is about $50 a > piece). You must make sure the video files are not encypted with CSS at > all before writing them to a DVD if you want them to work. The region > on the disc where commercial DVDs have the decoding keys and copyroght > info is unwritable (you can visibly see the line on many blank DVDs) > I suspect this is why you get css decoding errors. Well, dvdbackup uses libdvdcss to decrypt the files before ripping them. It's quite possible that the problem is in the unwriteable sectors, for which, I suppose, there is no solution. Drat. > Also you may want to look at the mkisofs options for making DVD video > since you might need to pass some of those options at the end of > growisofs. All the options at the end are passed directly to mkisofs. To the best of my knowledge the only option required is "-dvd-video" to preserve the proper structure. Some people have suggested "-V " as well, though I haven't tried that yet. Can anyone on the list reliably duplicate video DVDs? Is this a fool's errand, or is it possible? -- Peter King peter.king-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Department of Philosophy 215 Huron Street The University of Toronto (416)-978-3788 ofc Toronto, ON M5S 1A1 CANADA http://individual.utoronto.ca/pking/ ========================================================================= GPG keyID 0x7587EC42 (2B14 A355 46BC 2A16 D0BC 36F5 1FE6 D32A 7587 EC42) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 7587EC42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Thu Aug 26 22:33:54 2004 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen) Date: Thu, 26 Aug 2004 18:33:54 -0400 Subject: installing selected packages from unstable onto debian stable In-Reply-To: <1093453290.4379.15.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093447533.4013.16.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825155033.GC19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093451081.4013.78.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040825164039.GD19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <412CC293.9070808@canada.com> <1093453290.4379.15.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <20040826223354.GK32049@barnyard.sweetpig.dyndns.org> On Wed, Aug 25, 2004 at 01:01:30PM -0400 or thereabouts, Michael Coburn wrote: > yup, RT 1 (Jan 2001) works but is quite feature-less. testing ships a > version from end of May 2004. > > Gilles you run testing on a production server, www.debian.org/security/ > doesn't have a deb entry against testing..?!? isn't this a _bad_ thing? Actually, they do now as of August 08 2004 -- Because of Sarge's imminent release as 'Stable', sometime in September. deb http://security.debian.org sarge/updates main contrib non-free -- S.Allen ----------------------------------------------- barnyard Thursday Aug 26 2004 06:30:02 PM EDT ----------------------------------------------- Never let your schooling interfere with your education. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 13:28:58 2004 From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:28:58 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Wireless PCI Card References: <004601c48b84$e4f67ec0$7c2b1b31@tdbfg0fo2wxkyo> <200408261223.41210.jab@muskokatech.ca> Message-ID: Jeremy Baker writes: > > If you are thinking of using the hostap driver, then I don't think any of the > "g" products have supported chipsets. I successfully implemented this with a > DLink DWL-520 rev E1 which is an 802.11b pci card. You need rev A, B, E1, or > E if you want a prism chipset. I don't know about the other brands. I > remember trying to find other models that have the prism chipset, but > everyone is pushing the g products now, so it is tricky. > You can't buy the 'b' cards retail but seems to me that a few stores are now getting them back in a budget/remainder items. For instance, someone picked me up a DLink 'b' Access Point for $25. PCI wireless cards are harder to find than CardBus/PCMCIA, of course. To identify a card that comes in a generic box, there is always an ID # called the 'FCC ID' somewhere on the card. FCC stands for Federal Communications Commission, a US gov't agency that maintains a database of communications hardware. You can search the database to identify the maker of a card and so maybe figure out its chipset. http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/ http://www.driverzone.com/fcc_id_search.htm This site has a great list of Linux compatible networking devices. http://seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/HardwareComparison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 14:19:13 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 10:19:13 -0400 Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? Message-ID: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Hi everyone, What's going to happen when the current testing version of debian (aka sarge) moves into stable? On September 16, when everyone fires off apt-get update, apt-get upgrade -- are we all going to end up with libc6 upgrades, perl5.8, mysql 4.0.18, etc? Or will we need to specifically drop in new deb entries in sources.list for this to happen? Why this concerns me -- we maintain a testing machine running the current debian 3.0 stable which includes the 3.23 series of MySQL, which is also the same version as what's running on our hosting site's server. We don't want to start developing on 4.0 MySQL and then run production 3.23 -- too much room for irregularities. What options will exist after debian moves to 3.1 / sarge / stable? This strikes me as a significant upgrade for many users of debian, and I'm surprised that I haven't been able to find much discussion of the implications of this move -- white papers, FAQs, whatever. Do they exist, and I'm looking in the wrong places? Thanks in advance, -- michael -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 15:31:58 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:31:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: installing firefox 0.9 Message-ID: <20040827153158.95985.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> Below is a copy of my terminal when trying to install firefox. I think the second tar -xzvf should work? Can anyone help by telling me what appears to be wrong? [root at p3 data]# ls fire* firefox-0.9.3-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now tar: Child returned status 2 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file or directory tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now tar: Child returned status 2 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors [root at p3 data]# ===== If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? by: Hillel 100 BCE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 15:39:53 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:39:53 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040827153158.95985.qmail-YtQy2KcNWN2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040827153158.95985.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:31:58 -0700 (PDT), Mel Seder wrote: > I think the second tar -xzvf should work? > Can anyone help by telling me what appears to be wrong? > > [root at p3 data]# ls fire* > firefox-0.9.3-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz ok > [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz That's not the file you see above. > tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such file > or directory > tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now > tar: Child returned status 2 > tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors > [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz > tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz: Cannot open: No Neither is this. > such file or directory > tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now > tar: Child returned status 2 > tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors Either use bash's tab completion (or the equivalent in your shell of choice), or you can just "tar -xzvf fire*". But read what tar tells you, and compare to what ls told you. The filenames really don't match. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 15:22:54 2004 From: wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (WK) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:22:54 -0400 Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? In-Reply-To: <1093616352.13508.13.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <412F51CE.4060800@halfmind.com> I'm wondering about that too. I need to rebuild my debian stable this weekend, should I install the old stable version or the sarge? Michael Coburn wrote: > Hi everyone, > > What's going to happen when the current testing version of debian (aka > sarge) moves into stable? On September 16, when everyone fires off > apt-get update, apt-get upgrade -- are we all going to end up with libc6 > upgrades, perl5.8, mysql 4.0.18, etc? Or will we need to specifically > drop in new deb entries in sources.list for this to happen? > > Why this concerns me -- we maintain a testing machine running the > current debian 3.0 stable which includes the 3.23 series of MySQL, which > is also the same version as what's running on our hosting site's > server. We don't want to start developing on 4.0 MySQL and then run > production 3.23 -- too much room for irregularities. What options will > exist after debian moves to 3.1 / sarge / stable? > > This strikes me as a significant upgrade for many users of debian, and > I'm surprised that I haven't been able to find much discussion of the > implications of this move -- white papers, FAQs, whatever. Do they > exist, and I'm looking in the wrong places? > > Thanks in advance, > -- > michael > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 15:52:35 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:52:35 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <200408271137.23021.hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y@public.gmane.org> References: <20040827153158.95985.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> <200408271137.23021.hooman@yorku.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:37:22 -0400, Hooman Baradaran wrote: > It's tar -zxvf That is irrelevant. tar accepts those parameters in any order. See how many words you can spell! (though without any vowels in that particular set of options, I can guess how many you'll be able to make...) :) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 15:55:58 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:55:58 -0400 Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? In-Reply-To: <1093616352.13508.13.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <20040827155558.GG19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 10:19:13AM -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > Hi everyone, > > What's going to happen when the current testing version of debian (aka > sarge) moves into stable? On September 16, when everyone fires off > apt-get update, apt-get upgrade -- are we all going to end up with libc6 > upgrades, perl5.8, mysql 4.0.18, etc? Or will we need to specifically > drop in new deb entries in sources.list for this to happen? > > Why this concerns me -- we maintain a testing machine running the > current debian 3.0 stable which includes the 3.23 series of MySQL, which > is also the same version as what's running on our hosting site's > server. We don't want to start developing on 4.0 MySQL and then run > production 3.23 -- too much room for irregularities. What options will > exist after debian moves to 3.1 / sarge / stable? > > This strikes me as a significant upgrade for many users of debian, and > I'm surprised that I haven't been able to find much discussion of the > implications of this move -- white papers, FAQs, whatever. Do they > exist, and I'm looking in the wrong places? This is what will happene depending on what your sources.list uses as the release: stable: you will be upgraded to sarge when it goes stable. woody: you will continue using woody along with any security fixes for woody as it moves to old-stable and/or archived. sarge: you will continue to use sarge as it goes from testing to stable and eventually in some years to archived when something else becomes stable. testing: You will continue using testing which will then be named 'etch' as follow it as it develops (and probably get lots of breakage and updates as many new libraries move in following sarge's release). The new testing will be a fork from sarge when it goes stable. Forking unstable has already been tried and it really doesn't work well towards making a stable system anytime soon. sid/unstable: You will continue running unstable as usual along with all that means. Hope that helps. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 15:37:22 2004 From: hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Hooman Baradaran) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:37:22 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040827153158.95985.qmail-YtQy2KcNWN2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040827153158.95985.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <200408271137.23021.hooman@yorku.ca> It's tar -zxvf On August 27, 2004 11:31 am, Mel Seder wrote: > Below is a copy of my terminal when trying to install firefox. > > I think the second tar -xzvf should work? > Can anyone help by telling me what appears to be wrong? > > [root at p3 data]# ls fire* > firefox-0.9.3-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz > [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz > tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such > file or directory > tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now > tar: Child returned status 2 > tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors > [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz > tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz: Cannot open: > No such file or directory > tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now > tar: Child returned status 2 > tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors > [root at p3 data]# > > > ===== > If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > And if I am only for myself, what am I? > And if not now, when? > by: Hillel 100 BCE > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Hooman Baradaran hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org www.hoomanb.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 15:57:48 2004 From: hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Hooman Baradaran) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:57:48 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: References: <20040827153158.95985.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> <200408271137.23021.hooman@yorku.ca> Message-ID: <200408271157.48931.hooman@yorku.ca> Yes, I realized! :-)) For some reason I was so sure I didn't even test it. On August 27, 2004 11:52 am, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 11:37:22 -0400, Hooman Baradaran wrote: > > It's tar -zxvf > > That is irrelevant. tar accepts those parameters in any order. See > how many words you can spell! (though without any vowels in that > particular set of options, I can guess how many you'll be able to > make...) :) -- Hooman Baradaran hooman-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org www.hoomanb.com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 16:20:07 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:20:07 -0400 Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? In-Reply-To: <20040827155558.GG19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040827155558.GG19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <1093623606.13508.56.camel@nelson.michener.ca> As usual, thanks Lennart. I will update our sources.list files to reference the release name i.e. woody, and remove the generic stable reference. I'm much comforted to hear that we can continue running woody and also receive security updates. -- michael On Fri, 2004-08-27 at 11:55, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 10:19:13AM -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > What's going to happen when the current testing version of debian (aka > > sarge) moves into stable? On September 16, when everyone fires off > > apt-get update, apt-get upgrade -- are we all going to end up with libc6 > > upgrades, perl5.8, mysql 4.0.18, etc? Or will we need to specifically > > drop in new deb entries in sources.list for this to happen? > > > > Why this concerns me -- we maintain a testing machine running the > > current debian 3.0 stable which includes the 3.23 series of MySQL, which > > is also the same version as what's running on our hosting site's > > server. We don't want to start developing on 4.0 MySQL and then run > > production 3.23 -- too much room for irregularities. What options will > > exist after debian moves to 3.1 / sarge / stable? > > > > This strikes me as a significant upgrade for many users of debian, and > > I'm surprised that I haven't been able to find much discussion of the > > implications of this move -- white papers, FAQs, whatever. Do they > > exist, and I'm looking in the wrong places? > > This is what will happene depending on what your sources.list uses as > the release: > > stable: you will be upgraded to sarge when it goes stable. > woody: you will continue using woody along with any security fixes for > woody as it moves to old-stable and/or archived. > sarge: you will continue to use sarge as it goes from testing to stable > and eventually in some years to archived when something else > becomes stable. > testing: You will continue using testing which will then be named 'etch' > as follow it as it develops (and probably get lots of breakage and > updates as many new libraries move in following sarge's > release). The new testing will be a fork from sarge when it > goes stable. Forking unstable has already been tried and it > really doesn't work well towards making a stable system anytime > soon. > sid/unstable: You will continue running unstable as usual along with all > that means. > > Hope that helps. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 12:52:40 2004 From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:52:40 +0000 Subject: Wireless PCI Card In-Reply-To: References: <004601c48b84$e4f67ec0$7c2b1b31@tdbfg0fo2wxkyo> <200408261223.41210.jab@muskokatech.ca> Message-ID: <200408271252.48558.jab@muskokatech.ca> I got mine from tigerdirect about 3 weeks ago. Jeremy On Friday 27 August 2004 13:28, Andrew Malcolmson wrote: > Jeremy Baker writes: > > If you are thinking of using the hostap driver, then I don't think any of > > the "g" products have supported chipsets. I successfully implemented > > this with a DLink DWL-520 rev E1 which is an 802.11b pci card. You need > > rev A, B, E1, or E if you want a prism chipset. I don't know about the > > other brands. I remember trying to find other models that have the prism > > chipset, but everyone is pushing the g products now, so it is tricky. > > You can't buy the 'b' cards retail but seems to me that a few stores are > now getting them back in a budget/remainder items. For instance, someone > picked me up a DLink 'b' Access Point for $25. PCI wireless cards are > harder to find than CardBus/PCMCIA, of course. > > To identify a card that comes in a generic box, there is always an ID # > called the 'FCC ID' somewhere on the card. FCC stands for Federal > Communications Commission, a US gov't agency that maintains a database of > communications hardware. You can search the database to identify the maker > of a card and so maybe figure out its chipset. > > http://www.fcc.gov/oet/fccid/ > http://www.driverzone.com/fcc_id_search.htm > > This site has a great list of Linux compatible networking devices. > > http://seattlewireless.net/index.cgi/HardwareComparison > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- Jeremy Baker GnuPGP fingerprint = EE66 AC49 E008 E09A 7A2A 0195 50EF 580B EDBB 95B6 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 17:00:33 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 13:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? In-Reply-To: <1093623606.13508.56.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040827155558.GG19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093623606.13508.56.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Michael Coburn wrote: > As usual, thanks Lennart. I will update our sources.list files to > reference the release name i.e. woody, and remove the generic stable > reference. I'm much comforted to hear that we can continue running > woody and also receive security updates. Going from memory, but IIRC Debian has committed to maintaining security updates for Woody for 1 or 2 years. Plenty of time for a comfortable migration. Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 19:07:21 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 12:07:21 -0700 (PDT) Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040827190721.37509.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com> --- The Edge of the Ice wrote: > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 08:31:58 -0700 (PDT), Mel Seder > wrote: > > I think the second tar -xzvf should work? > > Can anyone help by telling me what appears to be wrong? > > > > [root at p3 data]# ls fire* > > firefox-0.9.3-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz > > ok > > > [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz > > That's not the file you see above. > > > tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft.tar.gz: Cannot open: No such > file > > or directory > > tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now > > tar: Child returned status 2 > > tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors > > [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz > > tar (child): firefox-0.9-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz: Cannot open: > No > > Neither is this. > > > such file or directory > > tar (child): Error is not recoverable: exiting now > > tar: Child returned status 2 > > tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors > > Either use bash's tab completion (or the equivalent in your shell of > choice), or you can just "tar -xzvf fire*". But read what tar tells > you, and compare to what ls told you. The filenames really don't > match. Ahhh, I see the .3 now thanks. But now I have uid and gid problem as follows. Any ideas on this new problem? ============================================================================== > [root at p3 data]# tar -xzvf firefox-0.9.3-i686-linux-gtk2+xft-installer.tar.gz firefox-installer/ firefox-installer/xpi/ firefox-installer/xpi/abe.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/abe.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/adt.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/adt.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/browser.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/browser.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/deflenus.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/deflenus.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/help.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/help.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/langenus.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/langenus.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/regus.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/regus.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/talkback.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/talkback.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/xpi/xpcom.xpi tar: firefox-installer/xpi/xpcom.xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/config.ini tar: firefox-installer/xpi: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted tar: firefox-installer/config.ini: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/header.xpm tar: firefox-installer/header.xpm: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/installer.ini tar: firefox-installer/installer.ini: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/license.txt tar: firefox-installer/license.txt: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/watermark.xpm tar: firefox-installer/watermark.xpm: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/firefox-installer tar: firefox-installer/firefox-installer: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted firefox-installer/firefox-installer-bin tar: firefox-installer/firefox-installer-bin: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted tar: firefox-installer: Cannot change ownership to uid 2232, gid 2232: Operation not permitted tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors =============================================================================== > -- > taa > /*eof*/ > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ===== If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? by: Hillel 100 BCE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 19:31:14 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 15:31:14 -0400 Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? In-Reply-To: <1093623606.13508.56.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> <20040827155558.GG19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1093623606.13508.56.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <20040827193114.GH19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 12:20:07PM -0400, Michael Coburn wrote: > As usual, thanks Lennart. I will update our sources.list files to > reference the release name i.e. woody, and remove the generic stable > reference. I'm much comforted to hear that we can continue running > woody and also receive security updates. At least for a few months. The security people don't expect everyone to instantly switch without time to test. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 20:18:04 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:18:04 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <412D50B9.30209@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200408271618.04168.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Wednesday 25 August 2004 11:18 pm, Taavi Burns wrote: > Do remember to keep a backup copy of the > old /bin/sh or /bin/bash around. Then when booting, just pass > init=/bin/oldbash and have fun. (this is also a good way to get root on a > box with an insecure bootloader; no runlevels, no passwords, no hassle!) How do I pass init=/bin/oldbash during booting? On my system (mdk10.0) I can enter the interactive mode by pressing the 'I' -key. However, there is no interaction possible until *after* the line 'INT: starting runlevel5. Neither one of the following questions that I have to anwser with either Y or N will relate to init. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 20:44:37 2004 From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:44:37 +0300 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 20:53:39 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:53:39 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040827205339.GI19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 11:44:37PM +0300, E K wrote: If this message had contained some plain text, the above would have shown something. Don't send html messages, or at the very least send BOTH plain text and html in multipart (mozilla-thunderbird knows how). But really, don't send html messages to a maillist. All decent mail programs can send plain text and can be told how to send messages to specific addresses automatically even if you like inflicting html on other people by default. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 20:54:46 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:54:46 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408271618.04168.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <412D50B9.30209@sympatico.ca> <200408271618.04168.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <20040827205446.GJ19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 04:18:04PM -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > How do I pass init=/bin/oldbash during booting? > On my system (mdk10.0) I can enter the interactive mode by pressing the 'I' > -key. However, there is no interaction possible until *after* the line > 'INT: starting runlevel5. > Neither one of the following questions that I have to anwser with either Y or > N will relate to init. Which boot loader? Both lilo and grub allow you to pass arguments when dropped to command line mode, or editing mode. You do have to interrupt normal booting though. Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 20:58:12 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:58:12 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408271618.04168.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <412D50B9.30209@sympatico.ca> <200408271618.04168.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 16:18:04 -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > How do I pass init=/bin/oldbash during booting? Do you use LILO or GRUB? Probably GRUB. Before GRUB actually loads your kernel, you should have a screen that shows your boot options (often Linux vs Windows). Hit 'e' to edit the boot options. Find the line that loads the kernel (something like "kernel (hd0,4)/kernel-2.6.6 root=/dev/hda7 resume=/dev/hda3", highlight it using the arrow keys, and hit 'e' again to edit that line. This is where you append the init=/bin/oldbash. Then hit 'enter', and 'b' to boot with those boot options. It may be that Mandrake doesn't pause in GRUB, or doesn't make it obvious that you can pause at that stage. I haven't booted Mandrake 10, and certainly not in your configuration, so I can't be sure. You can also go into the GRUB config file (/boot/grub/grub.conf) and add a new boot option there, or make sure that it's delaying so you have a chance to edit your boot options. > On my system (mdk10.0) I can enter the interactive mode by pressing the 'I' > -key. However, there is no interaction possible until *after* the line > 'INT: starting runlevel5. > Neither one of the following questions that I have to anwser with either Y or > N will relate to init. > John > > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 21:05:24 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:05:24 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040827190721.37509.qmail-XbHtgyYbTkWA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040827190721.37509.qmail@web40703.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <412FA214.3070808@interlog.com> Mel Seder wrote: >Ahhh, I see the .3 now thanks. But now I have uid and gid problem as follows. > > Your message let me know their is a 0.9.3 release. I just downloaded the file, ran 'tar xfz' on the file, and ran the installer without any problems. The only difference is that I did this as a regular user. I just tested the tar command you used while I was root on my machine and had no problem with the file extraction. Perhaps its something odd with your version of tar? -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 21:18:58 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:18:58 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <20040827205446.GJ19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408271618.04168.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20040827205446.GJ19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <200408271718.58397.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Friday 27 August 2004 04:54 pm, Lennart Sorensen wrote: > Which boot loader? > > Both lilo and grub allow you to pass arguments when dropped to command > line mode, or editing mode. You do have to interrupt normal booting > though. My boot loader is lilo. Q: how do I drop to command line or editing mode? Hitting 'e'-key does not do it. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 22:47:36 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:47:36 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408271718.58397.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408271618.04168.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <20040827205446.GJ19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200408271718.58397.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:18:58 -0400, John Wildberger wrote: > My boot loader is lilo. Q: how do I drop to command line or editing mode? > Hitting 'e'-key does not do it. IIRC, hitting the left shift key when you see "LILO" on the screen should drop you to a Linux: prompt. Tab should display your boot options. Then you can just type the name of the option you want (usually just 'linux') and the options right there: LILO Linux: linux windows Linux: linux init=/bin/oldbash Try "man lilo" for more information. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 22:55:09 2004 From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:55:09 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard Message-ID: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> I have seen a nice offer in pc village: AMD 64Bit Athlon 3000+ CPU, Asus K8V Motherboard, PQI 1Gb Dual Channel DDR, 80Gb 7200RPM HDD, 1.44 Floppy, 16x/52x24x52x CDRW Combo, Radeon 9200SE 128Mb Video Card, 10/100 Network Card, 32Bit Sound Card, ATX Mid-Tower, 600w Speakers w/Subwoofer, Logitech Keyboard, Optical Mouse, 17" Samsung LCD Everything for 1329$. After I did some research on the internet, I found that many people are not happy with the board and with ASUS' attitude with respect to Linux users. Do you have some recommandations to do about good hardware that works fine with Linux (and more specifically Mandrake)? I heard that almost all software is working with AMD processor, is that correct? Thanks for the input. Marc Lijour -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 23:28:32 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:28:32 -0400 Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard In-Reply-To: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: <20040827232832.GA481@node1.opengeometry.net> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 06:55:09PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > I have seen a nice offer in pc village: > AMD 64Bit Athlon 3000+ CPU, Asus K8V Motherboard, PQI 1Gb Dual Channel > DDR, 80Gb 7200RPM HDD, 1.44 Floppy, 16x/52x24x52x CDRW Combo, Radeon > 9200SE 128Mb Video Card, 10/100 Network Card, 32Bit Sound Card, ATX > Mid-Tower, 600w Speakers w/Subwoofer, Logitech Keyboard, Optical Mouse, > 17" Samsung LCD > > Everything for 1329$. > > After I did some research on the internet, I found that many people are > not happy with the board and with ASUS' attitude with respect to Linux > users. > > Do you have some recommandations to do about good hardware that works fine > with Linux (and more specifically Mandrake)? I've been out of touch recently. But, I think 3 top retail names still are Asus, Abit, and Tyan. Don't forget about good case and power supply. -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Fri Aug 27 23:39:38 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 19:39:38 -0400 Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard In-Reply-To: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004 18:55:09 -0400 (EDT), Marc Lijour wrote: > I heard that almost all software is working with AMD processor, is that > correct? The Athlon64 (and Opteron) are both quite happy to run in IA32 (x86) mode, and will just look like a run-of-the-mill Athlon to any running program (which in turn, generally looks like any random Pentium). I have a friend who got an Athlon64 3200+ system, and finds that it compiles the kernel so fast that he often has trouble believeing it's done. "That was just 'make dep', right? Uh..." Running in full 64-bit mode, however, sounds like it's still a little buggy, particularly in concert with the ATI binary drivers (which he needs to get any 3D out of the Radeon 9800). Windows just runs it in 32-bit mode anyway, though. The games run very fast. Something around 250fps for Unreal Tournament (the old one) at 1600x1200. :) Mandrake does seem to have an AMD64 version of Mandrake10: http://www.mandrakesoft.com/products/10/amd64 If you went and bought it, you'd be entitled to at least a little support. That and since they have it listed as an official product, they've probably worked at leats a few of the bugs out. :) Maybe ask their salespeople if it's recommended yet. -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 01:39:40 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:39:40 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408271718.58397.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200408272139.40927.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Friday 27 August 2004 06:47 pm, The Edge of the Ice wrote: > IIRC, hitting the left shift key when you see "LILO" on the screen > should drop you to a Linux: prompt. Tab should display your boot > options. Then you can just type the name of the option you want > (usually just 'linux') and the options right there: > Try "man lilo" for more information. man lilo tells me that the key combination is Shift,Ctrl,Alt,CapsLock. During booting the LILO is only displayed for a split second. Executing /sbin/lilo -d 200 does not change the display time. I was expecting it to be 20 seconds. In any case, nothing happened that would get me into a command line mode. I also tried to remove the 'prompt' line from the config file. This does not seem to make any difference either. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 03:05:07 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:05:07 -0400 Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard In-Reply-To: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: <412FF663.7090303@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, I am not sure about AMD or 64-bit processors, but I have never had any problems with an Asus P4P800 board. If you look on their website, you will see that they actually offer open source drivers for the Promise RAID controller on the K8V (and other motherboards). (At least the drivers I got were open source). Granted, the drivers are old, but at least they are out there. Also, I've had good experiences with VIA chipsets and Linux. I would do a search for each individual component; you will find more info that way. Just be sure to watch the dates on the articles/posts you find; the new 2.6 kernel has _much better_ hardware support than its predecessor. My 2 cents. Marc Lijour wrote: | I have seen a nice offer in pc village: | AMD 64Bit Athlon 3000+ CPU, Asus K8V Motherboard, PQI 1Gb Dual Channel | DDR, 80Gb 7200RPM HDD, 1.44 Floppy, 16x/52x24x52x CDRW Combo, Radeon | 9200SE 128Mb Video Card, 10/100 Network Card, 32Bit Sound Card, ATX | Mid-Tower, 600w Speakers w/Subwoofer, Logitech Keyboard, Optical Mouse, | 17" Samsung LCD | | Everything for 1329$. That's a killer price (or am I so out-of-touch?) | | After I did some research on the internet, I found that many people are | not happy with the board and with ASUS' attitude with respect to Linux | users. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBL/ZiRreNkzrRRLQRAt4TAJ9Mdn53UYWs/0YOXD72Hcxa+BrH9QCbBPD0 2w9I+4SZHDEBpqlC1fgu0rI= =U8tL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 03:10:04 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:10:04 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408272139.40927.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408271718.58397.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408272139.40927.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <412FF78C.6020403@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John Wildberger wrote: |>Try "man lilo" for more information. | | man lilo tells me that the key combination is Shift,Ctrl,Alt,CapsLock. | During booting the LILO is only displayed for a split second. | Executing /sbin/lilo -d 200 does not change the display time. I was expecting | it to be 20 seconds. | In any case, nothing happened that would get me into a command line mode. | I also tried to remove the 'prompt' line from the config file. This does not | seem to make any difference either. Try 'man lilo.conf'. There should be an option in the lilo.conf file for the delay. They value may also be in milliseconds, so try something like 2000 or 20000. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBL/eLRreNkzrRRLQRAh90AJ4n5cxSnt9ccHiVNjKapkzEmoNGPACdFfw4 Yq1KTcSzLnfa9eTZtSHboHA= =PmV7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 04:34:45 2004 From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 00:34:45 -0400 Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard In-Reply-To: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: <20040828043445.GK19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 06:55:09PM -0400, Marc Lijour wrote: > I have seen a nice offer in pc village: > AMD 64Bit Athlon 3000+ CPU, Asus K8V Motherboard, PQI 1Gb Dual Channel > DDR, 80Gb 7200RPM HDD, 1.44 Floppy, 16x/52x24x52x CDRW Combo, Radeon > 9200SE 128Mb Video Card, 10/100 Network Card, 32Bit Sound Card, ATX > Mid-Tower, 600w Speakers w/Subwoofer, Logitech Keyboard, Optical Mouse, > 17" Samsung LCD > > Everything for 1329$. Well a few things I would want spec'ed out: Is the ram DDR 400MHz, since that is what speed the cpu prefers ram at. Some people put in cheaper 333MHz ram which doesn't run synchronous with the CPU. Is the HD SATA or old style IDE? Why buy old technology? There is no such thing as a 32 bit sound card. If you want it to work well in Linux, get an SB Live! or Audigy (not the LX or LZ or whatever the cheap not emu10kX based is). Have you considered just getting a DVD-writer? They cost very little extra over the combo drive. Is it a socket 940, 939 or 7xx? The 939 is the future for the Athlon 64s, with the 7xx likely to be phased out, and the 940 being for servers. > After I did some research on the internet, I found that many people are > not happy with the board and with ASUS' attitude with respect to Linux > users. I have never had any issues with a motherboard and using Linux. It's a matter of the chipset and what its support is like for Linux. If the chipset maker supports Linux, the motherboard will too pretty much. As for Asus, they are the only brand I have bought in over 10 years, and I doubt I will switch brands anytime soon. They have been reliable for me, although I also never buy the low end models with the junk chipsets on them. If the chipset is bad, the board will be too, no matter how well it is made. In general, VIA, Intel and nVidia chipsets have worked well for me. I haven't been too impressed by SiS lately, although they used to make very nice chipsets for 486s. Opti has never made any good chipsets, although I also don't think they have tried for years. Asus ships with 'PnP OS Installed' set to no by default, which is more Linux friendly than most boards, which seem to default to what Microsoft wants. > Do you have some recommandations to do about good hardware that works fine > with Linux (and more specifically Mandrake)? I have no idea about mandrake, since my experience with it was never a good one. > I heard that almost all software is working with AMD processor, is that > correct? Well all software should work in 32 bit mode. Not sure of the state of native 64 bit support is, although I know Debian is almost ready to add it to unstable as another architecture, which is a good sign. I will stop rambling now. :) Lennart Sorensen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 04:57:29 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 21:57:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040827205339.GI19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <20040827205339.GI19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <20040828045729.11810.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> I'm using mail.yahoo.com as my mail program. I looked everywhere that seemed logical in mail options and couldn't find a way to send non HTML mail. If anyone can tell me how to NOT send HTML mail in mail.yahoo.com I'd be more than happy to send pure text only messages. --- Lennart Sorensen wrote: > On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 11:44:37PM +0300, E K wrote: > > If this message had contained some plain text, the above would have > shown something. > > Don't send html messages, or at the very least send BOTH plain text and > html in multipart (mozilla-thunderbird knows how). > > But really, don't send html messages to a maillist. All decent mail > programs can send plain text and can be told how to send messages to > specific addresses automatically even if you like inflicting html on > other people by default. > > Lennart Sorensen > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ===== If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? by: Hillel 100 BCE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 05:22:11 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 22:22:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <412FA214.3070808-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <412FA214.3070808@interlog.com> Message-ID: <20040828052211.41349.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Your suggestion seemed to have worked. The install program fired up firefox for me. When I exited firefox I couldn't figure out how to fire it up again. How do I get firefox to run? --- Kevin Cozens wrote: > Mel Seder wrote: > > >Ahhh, I see the .3 now thanks. But now I have uid and gid problem as > follows. > > > > > Your message let me know their is a 0.9.3 release. I just downloaded the > file, ran 'tar xfz' on the file, and ran the installer without any > problems. The only difference is that I did this as a regular user. I > just tested the tar command you used while I was root on my machine and > had no problem with the file extraction. Perhaps its something odd with > your version of tar? > > -- > Cheers! > > Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) > > Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" > E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: > Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" > #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ===== If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? by: Hillel 100 BCE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 05:40:02 2004 From: akodian-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Adil Kodian) Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 23:40:02 -0600 Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard In-Reply-To: <20040828043445.GK19549-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <20040828043445.GK19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Message-ID: <7aa37fa804082722401f6df3b0@mail.gmail.com> > Is the HD SATA or old style IDE? Why buy old technology? > make sure you buy a SATA controller that is supported by your version of linux. I have a tyan thunder k8w with a sil3114 card, and ive never gotten the hardware RAID to work properly in a manner that both windows and linux can use any partition on the RAID'ed hard drives (Raid0) but working with my desktop (2x248 opteron, 1Gig RAM, 120Gx3 SATA hdd) with windows2k (32bit) ive found it to be blazingly fast - P4s and Xeons dont even come close! I can run a heavy simulation ad 70%cpu), and continuously keep playing my games without a skip or freeze ! (NVidia GeForce FX 128Mb agp card) With linux in the native 64 bit mode it runs unbelievably fast - yep i also experienced the kernel compiling like magic. Mandrake, SuSE, FC2 all have AMD64 versions, although FC2 comes with support for almost every new device - and so may be important to some. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 15:00:58 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:00:58 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408272139.40927.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408271718.58397.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408272139.40927.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: Make sure these lines are near the top of lilo.conf: delay=40 prompt and then run lilo. The configuration is updated only when you run lilo. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 15:02:35 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:02:35 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <412FF78C.6020403-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408271718.58397.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408272139.40927.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <412FF78C.6020403@truxtar.com> Message-ID: > Try 'man lilo.conf'. There should be an option in the lilo.conf file for > the delay. They value may also be in milliseconds, so try something like > 2000 or 20000. The delay is in *tenths* of a second. But reading the manual should help. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 13:55:28 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 09:55:28 -0400 Subject: Good 64 bit motherboard In-Reply-To: <7aa37fa804082722401f6df3b0-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <20040828043445.GK19549@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <7aa37fa804082722401f6df3b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41308ED0.3090203@sympatico.ca> Gentoo has had an amd64 target for quite a while now. It looks as mature as the other processor targets, so it should be a fun build. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 15:12:31 2004 From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:12:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? In-Reply-To: <1093616352.13508.13.camel-elXclb45plFNvdbOavbiTrDks+cytr/Z@public.gmane.org> References: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Michael Coburn wrote: > What's going to happen when the current testing version of debian (aka > sarge) moves into stable? On September 16, when everyone fires off Hi Michael. This implies that Sarge will go stable on this date but I cannot find any confirming information. Got a source on this? Rob -- Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, rbrockway-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org) "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 15:29:14 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 10:29:14 -0500 Subject: what happens when debian sarge moves to stable? In-Reply-To: References: <1093616352.13508.13.camel@nelson.michener.ca> Message-ID: <200408281129.14946.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 28, 2004 11:12 am, Robert Brockway wrote: > On Fri, 27 Aug 2004, Michael Coburn wrote: > > What's going to happen when the current testing version of debian (aka > > sarge) moves into stable? On September 16, when everyone fires off > > Hi Michael. This implies that Sarge will go stable on this date but I > cannot find any confirming information. Got a source on this? http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2004/08/msg00001.html There's a good chance that has slipped a bit, I haven't been following the announcements that closely. -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 15:56:11 2004 From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 11:56:11 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040828052211.41349.qmail-dz3chGMHpKKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <412FA214.3070808@interlog.com> <20040828052211.41349.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040828155611.GB22221@m1800> On Fri, Aug 27, 2004 at 10:22:11PM -0700, Mel Seder wrote > Your suggestion seemed to have worked. The install program fired > up firefox for me. When I exited firefox I couldn't figure out how > to fire it up again. How do I get firefox to run? Try things in the following order... Plan a) Open an xterm in X, and at the command line type "firefox" (without the quotes) Plan b) Do you know where it was installed, and if that directory is in your path? A manual install usually puts executables (or symlinks thereto) in /usr/local/bin. So go back to your xterm and type in "/usr/local/bin/firefox" (without the quotes) If that works, add /usr/local/bin to your PATH statement. Plan c) The hard way. If none of the above work, su or login as root and run the command... find / -name firefox | more and see exactly where the file is located. Once you find the file, create a symlink from it to a directory in your path. -- Walter Dnes Email users are divided into two classes; 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking 2) Those who wish they did -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 17:50:43 2004 From: patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Patrick Bloomfield) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:50:43 -0400 Subject: New member In-Reply-To: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel-yQHV/pc6l8fuNdv6BosnGw@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> Message-ID: <4130C5F3.9000203@sympatico.ca> I'm a new member of this mailing list and would like to introduce myself with a comment or two that might be relevant to the group as a whole. I'm in my seventies. I've used Windows since Windows 1.0 was released, had grown increasingly eager to escape the MSFT empire, had tried one or other distribution of Linux from time to time, but had previously never found any Linux system sufficiently user friendly. Now I have installed SuSe 9.1 and this new distribution seems to me to meet all my needs. But, while the system is very friendly, the documentation is not. Not, at any rate for an amateur such as I. I wonder if TLUG has ever considered broadening interest in Linux and, possibly, bringing a few dollars into the group's coffers, by running introductory Linux courses for beginners, limited to basic principles, basic commands, learning how to configure and mount accessories, etc. Such a course would also give new users a legup with specific problems. For instance, I am composing this message in the Windows version of Mozilla Thunderbird because I have not yet succeeded in getting my D-Link Air-Plus DWL-650+ up and running in the SuSe 9.1 system. The SuSe 9.1 handbook suggests that the system's wireless card configuration will work for D-Link products. By contrast, the manufacturer's web site suggests there is no Linux driver for the DWL-650+. I did find one set of driver files in www.sourceforge.net/project. However, even were I to download these files, I would not be certain where to file them in the system. I'm also unable to achieve a full-screen SuSe 9.1 format on my Toshiba Tecra 8100 (for which SuSe 9.1 does not seem to include a specific display installation). The lasrt thing I wish is to take up this group's time teaching me or any other newbie basic programming. On the other hand, an introductory course would be an ideal stepping stone for new Linux users. Patrick Bloomfield. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sat Aug 28 21:16:23 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 17:16:23 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040828045729.11810.qmail-YtQy2KcNWN2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040828045729.11810.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4130F627.306@rogers.com> Mel Seder wrote: > I'm using mail.yahoo.com as my mail program. I looked everywhere that seemed > logical in mail options and couldn't find a way to send non HTML mail. If > anyone can tell me how to NOT send HTML mail in mail.yahoo.com I'd be more than > happy to send pure text only messages. Are you using web access or a mail client to send. I just tried sending a note to myself, from Yahoo, using web mail, and it doesn't appear to contain HTML. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 05:14:28 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 01:14:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <4130F627.306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <20040828045729.11810.qmail@web40702.mail.yahoo.com> <4130F627.306@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > Mel Seder wrote: >> I'm using mail.yahoo.com as my mail program. I looked everywhere that >> seemed >> logical in mail options and couldn't find a way to send non HTML mail. If >> anyone can tell me how to NOT send HTML mail in mail.yahoo.com I'd be more >> than >> happy to send pure text only messages. > > Are you using web access or a mail client to send. I just tried sending a > note to myself, from Yahoo, using web mail, and it doesn't appear to contain > HTML. How do you know ? You read it in Mozilla apparently. Web mail clients usually send it as multipart with plain text in the body + html attached afaik. Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 00:12:07 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:12:07 -0400 Subject: New member In-Reply-To: <4130C5F3.9000203-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <4130C5F3.9000203@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b204082817126abee8df@mail.gmail.com> Dear Patrick, First, welcome! It's great to have folks who are willing to give MS the boot and enter this strange new world. You'll work hard to figure it out, but the result is rewarding. To answer some of your questions, the first assumption you should make is that mailing lists like these are here in order to be bothered by your questions. We love to puzzle and figure stuff out. The linux ethic is very much steeped not in classroom learning but in poking and prodding things till they work. That way, the thinking goes, the learner gains a much deeper understanding. There's one thing I can contribute to here, and that's your wireless card problem. Indeed, it is a problem, because your d-link card is one of the few for which there is no viable Linux driver. It's based on the ACX100 chipset, which is notoriously difficult to get working. In fact, I was just going through this nightmare myself with a similar card, and ended up selling it on eBay, and buying a new one from TigerDirect, which is much better supported. Search through google to find supported wireless cards. For your other issues, you'll find this mailing list full of intelligent, interesting people who are dying to help you out. With each problem solved you'll become more adept. Before long, you'll be answering questions yourself! All the best, Aaron. On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 13:50:43 -0400, Patrick Bloomfield wrote: > I'm a new member of this mailing list and would like to introduce myself > with a comment or two that might be relevant to the group as a whole. > I'm in my seventies. I've used Windows since Windows 1.0 was released, > had grown increasingly eager to escape the MSFT empire, had tried one or > other distribution of Linux from time to time, but had previously never > found any Linux system sufficiently user friendly. > Now I have installed SuSe 9.1 and this new distribution seems to me to > meet all my needs. But, while the system is very friendly, the > documentation is not. Not, at any rate for an amateur such as I. > I wonder if TLUG has ever considered broadening interest in Linux and, > possibly, bringing a few dollars into the group's coffers, by running > introductory Linux courses for beginners, limited to basic principles, > basic commands, learning how to configure and mount accessories, etc. > Such a course would also give new users a legup with specific problems. > For instance, I am composing this message in the Windows version of > Mozilla Thunderbird because I have not yet succeeded in getting my > D-Link Air-Plus DWL-650+ up and running in the SuSe 9.1 system. The > SuSe 9.1 handbook suggests that the system's wireless card configuration > will work for D-Link products. By contrast, the manufacturer's web site > suggests there is no Linux driver for the DWL-650+. I did find one set > of driver files in www.sourceforge.net/project. However, even were I to > download these files, I would not be certain where to file them in the > system. > I'm also unable to achieve a full-screen SuSe 9.1 format on my Toshiba > Tecra 8100 (for which SuSe 9.1 does not seem to include a specific > display installation). > The lasrt thing I wish is to take up this group's time teaching me or > any other newbie basic programming. On the other hand, an introductory > course would be an ideal stepping stone for new Linux users. > Patrick Bloomfield. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 01:53:52 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 21:53:52 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408272139.40927.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <200408282153.52653.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Saturday 28 August 2004 11:00 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: > Make sure these lines are near the top of lilo.conf: > > delay=40 > prompt > > and then run lilo. The configuration is updated only when you run lilo. > > Peter Here is the top part of my lilo.conf: boot=/dev/hda map=/boot/map delay=200 prompt default="linux" keytable=/boot/us.klt timeout=100 message=/boot/message image=/boot/vmlinuz label="linux" root=/dev/hda6 initrd=/boot/initrd.img append="devfs=mount acpi=ht resume=/dev/hda5 splash=silent" vga=788 read-only xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx I set the delay =200 with the intention to give me more time. I run /sbin/lilo after I edited the file. Rebooting the computer still showed LILO only for a very short time before the boot menu was displayed. Holding the left shift key did not have any effect. I am persuing this issue only for interest sake. I am quite happy with the bash-3.0 and will probably never need to revert back to the bash-2.05 version. It just bugs me not being able to accomplish what you guys are so sure that it can be done easily. Any further suggestions??? (I already read the man pages for lilo and lilo.conf) John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 02:14:08 2004 From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:14:08 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408282153.52653.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408272139.40927.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408282153.52653.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: <1093745648.9238.9.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> On Sat, 2004-08-28 at 21:53, John Wildberger wrote: > John (or was it Peter) wrote: > Here is the top part of my lilo.conf: > > boot=/dev/hda > map=/boot/map > delay=200 > prompt > default="linux" > keytable=/boot/us.klt > timeout=100 > message=/boot/message > I set the delay =200 with the intention to give me more time. > I run /sbin/lilo after I edited the file. > Rebooting the computer still showed LILO only for a very short time before the > boot menu was displayed. Holding the left shift key did not have any effect. My understanding is that it's the "timeout" rather than the "delay" which is key here. I think that the "timeout" refers to the amount of time to leave the "boot" prompt there before LILO boots the default by itself. If, however, you press TAB when the "boot" prompt appears, LILO should display a list of "labels" and then wait forever for you to choose one. -- Sincerely, Alan Cohen alan-bdq14YP6qtTV+N59fa8YiVaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org voice: 416-783-9826 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 02:46:16 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 22:46:16 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040828052211.41349.qmail-dz3chGMHpKKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040828052211.41349.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41314378.7050900@interlog.com> Mel Seder wrote: >Your suggestion seemed to have worked. The install program fired up firefox >for me. When I exited firefox I couldn't figure out how to fire it up again. >How do I get firefox to run? > It installs firefox in to the directory you told it to use when you ran the installer. In my case I chose to install it in to a directory called firefox (ie. ~/firefox). Since this is outside my path I would need to add a symlink to it inside a directory in my search path. I actually haven't done that and just chose to add an icon to the bar at the bottom of my X window display. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 03:03:39 2004 From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 20:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <4130F627.306-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <4130F627.306@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040829030339.42961.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> I'm using yahoo's web mail http://mail.yahoo.com. How can I tell if my message contains HTML? --- James Knott wrote: > Mel Seder wrote: > > I'm using mail.yahoo.com as my mail program. I looked everywhere that > seemed > > logical in mail options and couldn't find a way to send non HTML mail. If > > anyone can tell me how to NOT send HTML mail in mail.yahoo.com I'd be more > than > > happy to send pure text only messages. > > Are you using web access or a mail client to send. I just tried sending > a note to myself, from Yahoo, using web mail, and it doesn't appear to > contain HTML. > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > ===== If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when? by: Hillel 100 BCE -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 03:23:09 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Sat, 28 Aug 2004 23:23:09 -0400 Subject: installing firefox 0.9 In-Reply-To: <20040829030339.42961.qmail-pW1lCIDfJjmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org> References: <20040829030339.42961.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41314C1D.1060903@rogers.com> I received it with Mozilla and it didn't look like HTML. I then tried to forward it to myself and didn't get any warning about HTML. Mel Seder wrote: > I'm using yahoo's web mail http://mail.yahoo.com. How can I tell if my message > contains HTML? > > --- James Knott wrote: > > >>Mel Seder wrote: >> >>>I'm using mail.yahoo.com as my mail program. I looked everywhere that >> >>seemed >> >>>logical in mail options and couldn't find a way to send non HTML mail. If >>>anyone can tell me how to NOT send HTML mail in mail.yahoo.com I'd be more >> >>than >> >>>happy to send pure text only messages. >> >>Are you using web access or a mail client to send. I just tried sending >>a note to myself, from Yahoo, using web mail, and it doesn't appear to >>contain HTML. >>-- >>The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml >> > > > > ===== > If I am not for myself, who will be for me? > And if I am only for myself, what am I? > And if not now, when? > by: Hillel 100 BCE > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 14:04:26 2004 From: wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (John Wildberger) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 10:04:26 -0400 Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <1093745648.9238.9.camel-WYle8UNbkfMGClDRh0WFwpAGcjtitEbrAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408282153.52653.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <1093745648.9238.9.camel@tsx3.computeradvocacy.com> Message-ID: <200408291004.26473.wildberger@cogeco.ca> On Saturday 28 August 2004 10:14 pm, Alan Cohen wrote: > > My understanding is that it's the "timeout" rather than the "delay" > which is key here. I think that the "timeout" refers to the amount of > time to leave the "boot" prompt there before LILO boots the default by > itself. > If, however, you press TAB when the "boot" prompt appears, LILO should > display a list of "labels" and then wait forever for you to choose one. All what TAB does is to stop the timeout. The real secret to get into the command line is to press the ESC -key while the timeout is still counting down, or when you have stopped the countdown with TAB. I only found this out by trial and error. Perseverance paid off. Once you are in the comand line mode which is indicated by listing all the labels followed by the line starting with 'boot:' One can then select a specific bash by typing linux init=/bin/whatever_bash_you_want It is interesting to note that neither the TAB nor the ESC are mentioned in the man for lilo.conf and lilo. I also begin to wonder what all this nonsense of delay, then pressing CapsLock,Ctrl,Alt really means and when or how it is used. In my case, when I type ' linux init=/bin/bash2.05b it gets me directly into the bash prompt by bypassing the other tasks that a normal startup would do, like selecting run level and initialize system service. However, it is good enough to make changes to the system. John -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 18:49:39 2004 From: patrick.bloomfield-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Patrick Bloomfield) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:49:39 -0400 Subject: Wireless adaptor In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204082817126abee8df-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <4130C5F3.9000203@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b204082817126abee8df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <41322543.3010508@sympatico.ca> Dear Aaron: Thanks very much. Just the help I needed. I have done a fair bit of Internet research and am currently looking at a Linksys WPC11-802.11b Wireless PC Card available from Tiger Direct. Any members had any experience with this one? Any comments much appreciated. Patrick. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 19:17:09 2004 From: aaronvegh-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Aaron Vegh) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:17:09 -0400 Subject: Wireless adaptor In-Reply-To: <41322543.3010508-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <4130C5F3.9000203@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b204082817126abee8df@mail.gmail.com> <41322543.3010508@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4386c5b20408291217405e7f65@mail.gmail.com> Hi Patrick, That's a good card, based on teh intersil chipset, and it's well-supported by Linux. Chances are it will work natively without any drivers necessary. At least it would on my Fedora 2 system. Best of luck! Aaron. On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:49:39 -0400, Patrick Bloomfield wrote: > Dear Aaron: > Thanks very much. Just the help I needed. I have done a fair bit of > Internet research and am currently looking at a Linksys WPC11-802.11b > Wireless PC Card available from Tiger Direct. Any members had any > experience with this one? Any comments much appreciated. > Patrick. > > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 19:51:45 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 15:51:45 -0400 Subject: New member In-Reply-To: <4386c5b204082817126abee8df-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <4130C5F3.9000203@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b204082817126abee8df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <413233D1.1010909@sympatico.ca> Aaron Vegh wrote: > > There's one thing I can contribute to here, and that's your wireless > card problem. Indeed, it is a problem, because your d-link card is one > of the few for which there is no viable Linux driver. It's based on > the ACX100 chipset, which is notoriously difficult to get working. It's not that hard to get working, provided that: * you build the kernel from source, or have the exactly matching kernel source tree around * you follow the installation instructions exactly. I find it to be a useful card, now I know how to get it going. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 22:04:45 2004 From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 18:04:45 -0400 Subject: (patch for Bash) dynamically loadable builtins Message-ID: <20040829220445.GA9143@node1.opengeometry.net> Dear all, Latest incarnation of my patch is now at http://freshmeat.net/projects/bashdiff/ By popular demands, I converted all builtins as dynamically loadables. And, simple x-y character plot has been added since last post. I personally don't like putting builtins in a separate shared object file. But, it allows people to try my patch, without compiling the entire Bash shell from scratch. To compile just the loadables, wget ftp://ftp.gnu.org/pub/gnu/bash/bash-3.0.tar.gz # original tar -xzf bash-3.0.tar.gz mv bash-3.0 bash wget http://home.eol.ca/~parkw/bashdiff.tar.gz # my patch tar -xzf bashdiff.tar.gz cd bash patch -p1 < ../bash.diff autoconf ./configure # to pickup headers and libraries. cd examples/loadables/william make # --> william.so To find out what is available, nm -D ./william.so | grep '_struct' where 'xxx_struct' denotes that 'xxx' builtin is available for dynamic loading. If you have all libraries, then you should see 24 builtins. To use it, enable -f ./william.so vplot # loads 'vplot' as builtins help vplot vplot vplot 1 2 3 4 5 6 enable -d vplot # unloads 'vplot' Any feedback (like segfault :-) is greatly appreciated. Enjoy! -- William Park Open Geometry Consulting, Toronto, Canada -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Sun Aug 29 22:41:40 2004 From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer) Date: 29 Aug 2004 18:41:40 -0400 Subject: Wireless adaptor In-Reply-To: <4386c5b20408291217405e7f65-JsoAwUIsXosN+BqQ9rBEUg@public.gmane.org> References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <4130C5F3.9000203@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b204082817126abee8df@mail.gmail.com> <41322543.3010508@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b20408291217405e7f65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Aaron Vegh writes: > Hi Patrick, > That's a good card, based on teh intersil chipset, and it's > well-supported by Linux. Chances are it will work natively without any > drivers necessary. At least it would on my Fedora 2 system. > > Best of luck! > Aaron. > > On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:49:39 -0400, Patrick Bloomfield > wrote: > > Dear Aaron: > > Thanks very much. Just the help I needed. I have done a fair bit of > > Internet research and am currently looking at a Linksys WPC11-802.11b > > Wireless PC Card available from Tiger Direct. Any members had any > > experience with this one? Any comments much appreciated. > > Patrick. Be careful, Linksys has recently changed the chipset. WPC11 through v3 used the well supported Prism 2/2.5/3 chipset. WPC11 v4 (the current card and very likely what you will get from Tiger Direct) uses a completely different and unsupported chipset (from Broadcomm, IIRC). You can still find some v3s on store shelves if you look carefully. -- tim writer starnix inc. 905.771.0017 ext. 225 thornhill, ontario, canada http://www.starnix.com professional linux services & products -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 02:04:45 2004 From: michael-3aH0qR8MVRD3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Michael Coburn) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:04:45 -0400 Subject: Wireless adaptor In-Reply-To: References: <2636.200.65.2.12.1093647309.squirrel@www.lijour.net> <4130C5F3.9000203@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b204082817126abee8df@mail.gmail.com> <41322543.3010508@sympatico.ca> <4386c5b20408291217405e7f65@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1093831485.2684.16.camel@smithers> WPC11 v4 ussd the Realtek 8180 chipset. Apparently you can build these drivers using the files available from realtek's site, but I could never get them to compile properly on a debian unstable system. :( You _may_ have success with this card if you also look to the ndiswrapper package (v4 is noted to work) http://ndiswrapper.sourceforge.net/ . You will probably need to recompile your kernel, but it's worth it. I'm using v 0.8 of ndiswrapper with a DWL-650 card, which works flawlessly even at high transfer rates. However cool apps like kismet or airsnort are known not to function when you use ndiswrapper. Also it does not report an accurate link quality -- it always shows 100%. -- michael On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 18:41, Tim Writer wrote: > Aaron Vegh writes: > > > Hi Patrick, > > That's a good card, based on teh intersil chipset, and it's > > well-supported by Linux. Chances are it will work natively without any > > drivers necessary. At least it would on my Fedora 2 system. > > > > Best of luck! > > Aaron. > > > > On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 14:49:39 -0400, Patrick Bloomfield > > wrote: > > > Dear Aaron: > > > Thanks very much. Just the help I needed. I have done a fair bit of > > > Internet research and am currently looking at a Linksys WPC11-802.11b > > > Wireless PC Card available from Tiger Direct. Any members had any > > > experience with this one? Any comments much appreciated. > > > Patrick. > > Be careful, Linksys has recently changed the chipset. WPC11 through v3 used > the well supported Prism 2/2.5/3 chipset. WPC11 v4 (the current card and > very likely what you will get from Tiger Direct) uses a completely different > and unsupported chipset (from Broadcomm, IIRC). You can still find some v3s > on store shelves if you look carefully. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 02:32:40 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: 29 Aug 2004 22:32:40 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux Message-ID: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> I have a PROMISE card which has some unformatted LINUX partitions and some Windows partitions. It detects under Windows, but is only detected by the kernel under LINUX. Here is one of the entries under /proc/pci: Bus 0, device 12, function 0: Unknown mass storage controller: Promise Technology, Inc. 20269 (rev 2). IRQ 11. Master Capable. Latency=32. Min Gnt=4.Max Lat=18. I/O at 0x9000 [0x9007]. I/O at 0x8800 [0x8803]. I/O at 0x8400 [0x8407]. I/O at 0x8000 [0x8003]. I/O at 0x7800 [0x780f]. Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xce800000 [0xce803fff]. Any idea what file under /dev/ this relates to, or how I can find out? I don't think this is a raid card (raidtools can't seem to detect anything under /dev/sd), and the box it came in says that it is just an IDE adapter card. Paul King -- Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 02:41:21 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 22:41:21 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> References: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <413293D1.4000902@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul King wrote: | Any idea what file under /dev/ this relates to, or how I can find out? I | don't think this is a raid card (raidtools can't seem to detect anything | under /dev/sd), and the box it came in says that it is just an | IDE adapter card. Try looking under /proc/ide/ to see information about all your IDE devices and what nodes in /dev they belong to. Also, do 'dmesg | grep -i promise' to see what the kernel has to say when it finds the device. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBMpPQRreNkzrRRLQRAvXGAKCIJiqVokza7hvY6rSYGMdrhShlnQCfS+SX Jvh10H+VGfqLXE/TUoiYpMs= =k3mO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 03:50:08 2004 From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 23:50:08 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> References: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <1093837808.27903.1.camel@rincewind.discworld> Assuming that you only have one such card in your system then: 1st Channel (Master/Slave) = hde/hdf 2nd Channel (Master/Slave) = hdg/hdh Try checking /proc/partitions to see what that turns up. If the kernel detected the drive and read the partition table then the info you need to mount it is in there. On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 22:32, Paul King wrote: > I have a PROMISE card which has some unformatted LINUX partitions and > some Windows partitions. It detects under Windows, but is only detected > by the kernel under LINUX. > > Here is one of the entries under /proc/pci: > Bus 0, device 12, function 0: > Unknown mass storage controller: Promise Technology, Inc. > 20269 (rev 2). > IRQ 11. > Master Capable. Latency=32. Min Gnt=4.Max Lat=18. > I/O at 0x9000 [0x9007]. > I/O at 0x8800 [0x8803]. > I/O at 0x8400 [0x8407]. > I/O at 0x8000 [0x8003]. > I/O at 0x7800 [0x780f]. > Non-prefetchable 32 bit memory at 0xce800000 [0xce803fff]. > > Any idea what file under /dev/ this relates to, or how I can find out? I > don't think this is a raid card (raidtools can't seem to detect anything > under /dev/sd), and the box it came in says that it is just an > IDE adapter card. > > Paul King -- Marcus Brubaker -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 04:31:30 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: 30 Aug 2004 00:31:30 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <413293D1.4000902-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> <413293D1.4000902@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <1093840289.1254.32.camel@gandalf> On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 22:41, Anton Markov wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Paul King wrote: > | Any idea what file under /dev/ this relates to, or how I can find out? I > | don't think this is a raid card (raidtools can't seem to detect anything > | under /dev/sd), and the box it came in says that it is just an > | IDE adapter card. > > Try looking under /proc/ide/ to see information about all your IDE > devices and what nodes in /dev they belong to. Also, do 'dmesg | grep -i > promise' to see what the kernel has to say when it finds the device. > dmesg gives nothing, although grepping for "PCI" gives, among other things: VP_IDE: IDE controller on PCI bus 00 dev 21 (/proc/ide gave the promise card as being on Bus 0). As for looking under /proc/ide, that has already been tried. There are four devices under there: hda, hdb, hdc, and hdd. Those four are for my two hard disks and two CD units mounted on the motherboard interfaces. I just verified that by looking at /proc/ide/hd[abcd]/model. The Promise card is for a fifth drive. For what it's worth, I can show you part of dmesg: VP_IDE: VIA vt82c686b (rev 40) IDE UDMA100 controller on pci00:04.1 ide0: BM-DMA at 0xb800-0xb807, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:DMA ide1: BM-DMA at 0xb808-0xb80f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:DMA hda: MAXTOR 6L040L2, ATA DISK drive hdb: MAXTOR 6L040J2, ATA DISK drive hdc: AOPEN 16XDVD-ROM/AMH 20011108, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive hdd: PIONEER DVD-RW DVR-107D, ATAPI CD/DVD-ROM drive ide0 at 0x1f0-0x1f7,0x3f6 on irq 14 ide1 at 0x170-0x177,0x376 on irq 15 hda: 78177792 sectors (40027 MB) w/1819KiB Cache, CHS=77557/16/63 hdb: 78177792 sectors (40027 MB) w/1819KiB Cache, CHS=77557/16/63 Not much luck in dmesg, but I see it's listed under /proc/ioports: 7800-780f : Promise Technology, Inc. 20269 8000-8003 : Promise Technology, Inc. 20269 8400-8407 : Promise Technology, Inc. 20269 8800-8803 : Promise Technology, Inc. 20269 9000-9007 : Promise Technology, Inc. 20269 and /proc/iomem: ce800000-ce803fff : Promise Technology, Inc. 20269 That's what I see under /proc, fwiw. Paul King -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 04:43:27 2004 From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King) Date: 30 Aug 2004 00:43:27 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <1093837808.27903.1.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org> References: <1093833160.1172.6.camel@gandalf> <1093837808.27903.1.camel@rincewind.discworld> Message-ID: <1093841007.1254.43.camel@gandalf> On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 23:50, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > Assuming that you only have one such card in your system then: > > 1st Channel (Master/Slave) = hde/hdf > 2nd Channel (Master/Slave) = hdg/hdh A screen dump of my attempts at finding these disks, which all turn up the same error: Unable to open /dev/hd{whatever} On my system, hda and hdb are hard drives, and hdc and hdd are my CD-ROMs. I have a 5th storage device on the PCI-IDE Promise card which has the hard disk which is useable on Windows but not Linux (yet). > > Try checking /proc/partitions to see what that turns up. If the kernel > detected the drive and read the partition table then the info you need > to mount it is in there. I just get hda, hdb, and hdc, going by the major and minor numbers: major minor #blocks name 22 0 439374 hdc 3 0 39088896 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc 3 1 5863693 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 3 2 5124735 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part2 3 3 14056875 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part3 3 4 14040810 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 3 64 39088896 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/disc 3 65 20480008 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part1 3 66 7168392 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part2 3 67 7168392 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part3 3 68 4271904 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part4 I don't know why /dev/hdd (the second CD-ROM) isn't listed there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 15:30:16 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:30:16 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers Message-ID: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> Hello all, Once again, I've returned to the list, eager to see the comings and goings of Q's & A's. Hope everyone is well. During the last while, I've switched distros. I've moved from Mandrake (v10) to Libranet, taking advantage of their 2.8.1 trial freebie. It's new, it's Debian, it's a bit of a learning curve, but I'm liking it. One peculiarity that's been driving me nuts is the following: back when I was using Mdk, infrequently I'd find that my machine couldn't connect to the Rogers at Home cable modem. This was almost always from a cold-boot situation (as in: get home, turn on computer). I'd try restarting the network service, but no luck. I was usually left with two solutions: power-cycling the cable modem and restarting services (which was never a guarantee) or simply rebooting. Now, under Libranet, I find that it's happening almost *every* time I start my computer cold. The external modem is lit "Online" as it should, and I'm sure it's fine. Somehow though, there's some sort of problem with my box conversing with it. I'm beginning to think that perhaps this is an issue on Roger's end (client verification of some sort?). Regardless, it's a pain. Has anyone else been experiencing this? Thanks in advance for any clues, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell.? - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 16:10:15 2004 From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 12:10:15 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <1845971709.20040830113016-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040830160813.GB23979@seahorse> On Mon, Aug 30, 2004 at 11:30:16AM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: > Now, under Libranet, I find that it's happening almost *every* time > I start my computer cold. The external modem is lit "Online" as > it should, and I'm sure it's fine. Somehow though, there's some > sort of problem with my box conversing with it. I'm beginning to > think that perhaps this is an issue on Roger's end (client > verification of some sort?). Regardless, it's a pain. Hello Matt - you may want to consider a different dhcp client program (or version) to use with Rogers. Under RedHat (a while back) "pump" didn't work for me, but dhcpcd did. Under OpenBSD, ISC's dhclient v2 gave me problems but v3 worked great. At any rate, see if there are any alternatives to the one that LibraNet uses. Why there were these issues, I haven't the foggiest, but changing dhcp clients fixed them. Assuming, of course, that I'm understanding your problem correctly - cables are otherwise correctly plugged in, there aren't any local outages in your area, etc. Andy -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 17:12:08 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 13:12:08 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <1845971709.20040830113016-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41335FE8.4060709@rogers.com> I've been with Rogers for over 4 years and never had a problem with the connection. I just set up my computer for dhcp and it works fine. However, if you can't get Linux to work properly, get one of those cheap "routers", to connect to the cable modem. You might also want to use Ethereal, to monitor what's happening between your computer and modem. Matt Cahill wrote: > > Hello all, > > Once again, I've returned to the list, eager to see the comings > and goings of Q's & A's. Hope everyone is well. > > During the last while, I've switched distros. I've moved from > Mandrake (v10) to Libranet, taking advantage of their 2.8.1 trial > freebie. It's new, it's Debian, it's a bit of a learning curve, > but I'm liking it. > > One peculiarity that's been driving me nuts is the following: > back when I was using Mdk, infrequently I'd find that my machine > couldn't connect to the Rogers at Home cable modem. This was almost > always from a cold-boot situation (as in: get home, turn on > computer). I'd try restarting the network service, but no luck. > I was usually left with two solutions: power-cycling the cable > modem and restarting services (which was never a guarantee) or > simply rebooting. > > Now, under Libranet, I find that it's happening almost *every* time > I start my computer cold. The external modem is lit "Online" as > it should, and I'm sure it's fine. Somehow though, there's some > sort of problem with my box conversing with it. I'm beginning to > think that perhaps this is an issue on Roger's end (client > verification of some sort?). Regardless, it's a pain. > > Has anyone else been experiencing this? > > Thanks in advance for any clues, > > Matt > -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 01:16:36 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Sun, 29 Aug 2004 21:16:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: bash 3.01 In-Reply-To: <200408282153.52653.wildberger-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org> References: <200408221021.55690.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408272139.40927.wildberger@cogeco.ca> <200408282153.52653.wildberger@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: On Sat, 28 Aug 2004, John Wildberger wrote: > On Saturday 28 August 2004 11:00 am, Peter L. Peres wrote: >> Make sure these lines are near the top of lilo.conf: >> >> delay=40 >> prompt >> >> and then run lilo. The configuration is updated only when you run lilo. >> >> Peter > Here is the top part of my lilo.conf: > > boot=/dev/hda > map=/boot/map > delay=200 > prompt > default="linux" > keytable=/boot/us.klt > timeout=100 > message=/boot/message > > image=/boot/vmlinuz > label="linux" > root=/dev/hda6 > initrd=/boot/initrd.img > append="devfs=mount acpi=ht resume=/dev/hda5 splash=silent" > vga=788 > read-only > xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > I set the delay =200 with the intention to give me more time. > I run /sbin/lilo after I edited the file. > Rebooting the computer still showed LILO only for a very short time before the > boot menu was displayed. Holding the left shift key did not have any effect. > > I am persuing this issue only for interest sake. I am quite happy with the > bash-3.0 and will probably never need to revert back to the bash-2.05 > version. It just bugs me not being able to accomplish what you guys are so > sure that it can be done easily. We are able to do this all the time ;-) Sorry about your problems. > Any further suggestions??? (I already read the man pages for lilo and > lilo.conf) Imho, delete the line that says message=... and check that the keymap in /boot exists (file us.klt). I am not sure why you need that keymap. Maybe delete that too and check. The keymap could prevent the shift key from working, and the message could hide LILO and then crash or do something else internally that we don't know about. I'd comment out the keymap= and message= lines, run lilo and see what happens. hope this helps, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 19:10:03 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 15:10:03 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <1845971709.20040830113016-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> Matt Cahill wrote: > Now, under Libranet, I find that it's happening almost *every* time > I start my computer cold. The external modem is lit "Online" as > it should, and I'm sure it's fine. Somehow though, there's some > sort of problem with my box conversing with it. I'm beginning to > think that perhaps this is an issue on Roger's end (client > verification of some sort?). Regardless, it's a pain. > > Has anyone else been experiencing this? > > What modem do you have? I had no problems with my Rogers connection at first. After several months I started having problems. It turned out that it was a bad modem (I had a Terayon TJ615 modem). It was replaced with a SurfBoard 5100 and life is good again. The only other suggestion is to check the order in which you start your network interfaces if you have more than one. The interface connected to the cable modem must be started before the local network interface if you want to get online to the net. That has been my experience. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:01:57 2004 From: dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org (Dave Bour) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:01:57 -0400 Subject: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux In-Reply-To: <1093841007.1254.43.camel@gandalf> References: <1093841007.1254.43.camel@gandalf> Message-ID: <000001c48ecc$356d88e0$8200a8c0@m1> Paul, For what it's worth, on my Promise SATA/IDE card under Fedora 2, the IDE drive (as dos the SATA drive) show up as SCSI devices, rather than IDE. D. Dave Bour Desktop Solution Center 905.381.0077 dcbour-Uj1Tbf34OBsy5HIR1wJiBuOEVfOsBSGQ at public.gmane.org http://www.desktopsolutioncenter.ca -----Original Message----- From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Paul King Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 12:43 AM To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Problems with PROMISE Card in Linux On Sun, 2004-08-29 at 23:50, Marcus Brubaker wrote: > Assuming that you only have one such card in your system then: > > 1st Channel (Master/Slave) = hde/hdf > 2nd Channel (Master/Slave) = hdg/hdh A screen dump of my attempts at finding these disks, which all turn up the same error: Unable to open /dev/hd{whatever} On my system, hda and hdb are hard drives, and hdc and hdd are my CD-ROMs. I have a 5th storage device on the PCI-IDE Promise card which has the hard disk which is useable on Windows but not Linux (yet). > > Try checking /proc/partitions to see what that turns up. If the > kernel detected the drive and read the partition table then the info > you need to mount it is in there. I just get hda, hdb, and hdc, going by the major and minor numbers: major minor #blocks name 22 0 439374 hdc 3 0 39088896 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/disc 3 1 5863693 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part1 3 2 5124735 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part2 3 3 14056875 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part3 3 4 14040810 ide/host0/bus0/target0/lun0/part4 3 64 39088896 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/disc 3 65 20480008 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part1 3 66 7168392 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part2 3 67 7168392 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part3 3 68 4271904 ide/host0/bus0/target1/lun0/part4 I don't know why /dev/hdd (the second CD-ROM) isn't listed there. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:12:49 2004 From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:12:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <1845971709.20040830113016-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> Message-ID: <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> --- Matt Cahill wrote: > > Hello all, > > Once again, I've returned to the list, eager to see the comings > and goings of Q's & A's. Hope everyone is well. > > During the last while, I've switched distros. I've moved from > Mandrake (v10) to Libranet, taking advantage of their 2.8.1 trial > freebie. It's new, it's Debian, it's a bit of a learning curve, > but I'm liking it. > > One peculiarity that's been driving me nuts is the following: > back when I was using Mdk, infrequently I'd find that my machine > couldn't connect to the Rogers at Home cable modem. This was almost > always from a cold-boot situation (as in: get home, turn on > computer). I'd try restarting the network service, but no luck. > I was usually left with two solutions: power-cycling the cable > modem and restarting services (which was never a guarantee) or > simply rebooting. Hey Matt. Why not leave your computer on? I never shutdown, any of mine, at least not on purpose. There's quite a bit of wear and tear on a system booting it up constantly (or so I've heard). That should alleviate your problem, no? :) ===== Regards, Stephen -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:21:56 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:21:56 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <20040830160813.GB23979@seahorse> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <20040830160813.GB23979@seahorse> Message-ID: <282924644.20040830162156@rogers.com> Monday, August 30, 2004, 12:10:15 PM, you wrote: AJ> On Mon, Aug 30, 2004 at 11:30:16AM -0400, Matt Cahill wrote: AJ> Hello Matt - you may want to consider a different dhcp client program AJ> (or version) to use with Rogers. Under RedHat (a while back) "pump" AJ> didn't work for me, but dhcpcd did. Under OpenBSD, ISC's dhclient v2 AJ> gave me problems but v3 worked great. At any rate, see if there are any AJ> alternatives to the one that LibraNet uses. Why there were these AJ> issues, I haven't the foggiest, but changing dhcp clients fixed them. Good point. I've just reinstalled the OS (due to other less-frustrating reasons), so I'm going to keep an eye on it. If the problem persists, I'll look at choosing a more recent version of the dhcp client (I believe it's dhcpd also). Cheers, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell.? - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:23:54 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:23:54 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <41337B8B.8060405-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> Message-ID: <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> Monday, August 30, 2004, 3:10:03 PM, you wrote: KC> What modem do you have? I had no problems with my Rogers connection at KC> first. After several months I started having problems. It turned out KC> that it was a bad modem (I had a Terayon TJ615 modem). It was replaced KC> with a SurfBoard 5100 and life is good again. Interesting. What was the issue with the Tarayon? I have one, but I'm pretty sure it's working OK. Did your old Terayon pretend to work fine by any chance? KC> The only other suggestion is to check the order in which you start your KC> network interfaces if you have more than one. The interface connected to KC> the cable modem must be started before the local network interface if KC> you want to get online to the net. That has been my experience. Just have eth0. However, I will look at the startup scripts, just to make sure. Thanks, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell.? - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:28:21 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:28:21 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <20040830201249.68394.qmail-H8Ola0o0w/uB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <599501719.20040830162821@rogers.com> Monday, August 30, 2004, 4:12:49 PM, you wrote: S> Hey Matt. S> Why not leave your computer on? I never shutdown, any of mine, at least not on S> purpose. There's quite a bit of wear and tear on a system booting it up S> constantly (or so I've heard). That should alleviate your problem, no? :) Stephen, Alleviate? Yes. Solve? No :) If it wasn't for the fact that I'm deathly afraid of electrical appliances catching fire when I'm away from the apartment, your option would be a good band-aid solution. Cheers, Matt -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com "It is important to have this idea in one's mind, because otherwise one fails to grasp the whole spirit of modern Science-Philosophy. It does not aim at Truth; [...] it aims at maximum convenience." - A. Crowley -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:31:48 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:31:48 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <20040830201249.68394.qmail-H8Ola0o0w/uB9c0Qi4KiSl5cfvJIxWXgQQ4Iyu8u01E@public.gmane.org> References: <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <41338EB4.4010903@sympatico.ca> Stephen wrote: > > Why not leave your computer on? That all depends whether you want to have approximately 900kWh/year (or about $90/year) phantom load on your household power usage, per computer. And that's not including monitors. I know of households who run everything on that that amount of power per year. The expected rise in hydro prices will concentrate people's minds a bit; not before time, either. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:30:21 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:30:21 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help Message-ID: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> Hi all, I found some code (finally!) that allows mouse-over help bubbles to properly be displayed under Mozilla/Linux. Unfortunately I am at a loss trying to understand how it works. Here is what I can tell so far... The javascript looks in a page for certain class(?) and anything within it is scanned for certain keywords. When a keyword is found it is highlighted and a mouse-over help bubble is created which is displayed when the mouse rolls over the key word on the screen. From what I can tell (I know very little about JS) it works like this: I need: (other stuff) . . . Then when I want the JS to seach for words withing a space use 'div':
. . .
Text can be formatted using several tags. Mouse over this text to see the ones available.
The javascript I am working from (credited to www.pint.com) is like this: -=[ Start JS Code ]=- // *************************************** // INCLUDE THIS FILE IN DOCUMENT HEAD // // // INCLUDE THIS IN THE DOCUMENT BODY // // *************************************** if(document.getElementById) // don't do anything for non-DOM browsers { // class name of elements that should be scanned for glossary words var PINT_GLOSSARY_glossaryClass = "glossary"; // class name of words that are in the glossary var PINT_GLOSSARY_definitionClass = "definition"; // id of popup element that displays the definition var PINT_GLOSSARY_popupElementId = "definitionPopup"; // text to display in status bar as definitions load var PINT_GLOSSARY_loadingStatusMessage = 'Loading Glossary Definitions...'; // distances from mouse to definition popup var PINT_GLOSSARY_popupOffsetX = 15; var PINT_GLOSSARY_popupOffsetY = 25; // if search should be case sensitive (match word exactly) var PINT_GLOSSARY_caseSensitive = false; // if search should match only entire words (not part of the word) var PINT_GLOSSARY_wholeWord = true; // glossary word/definition list - this is where words and their definitions are added var PINT_GLOSSARY_list = new Array(); PINT_GLOSSARY_list["Text"] = "this is the definition for Text"; PINT_GLOSSARY_list["morewords"] = "more definitions"; } /* sample styles */ -=[ End JS Code ]=- If I understand it the "Text" in "Text can be formatted using several tags. Mouse over this text to see the ones available." should have a help-bubble pop up but nothing is happening. Soooo, am I missing something obvious? Can anyone see what I am doing wrong? As it is the page (created by perl, btw) seems to make no difference. Thanks so much!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:41:19 2004 From: jaaaarel-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (The Edge of the Ice) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:41:19 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <41338EB4.4010903-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <41338EB4.4010903@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:31:48 -0400, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > Stephen wrote: > > > > Why not leave your computer on? > > That all depends whether you want to have approximately 900kWh/year (or > about $90/year) phantom load on your household power usage, per > computer. And that's not including monitors. That is of course why I bought my Netwinder. With a maximum power draw of 15W, it's a much better solution for the low-level serving I need. Not that I actually pay for power (included in my rent), but I like being nice. Laptops are good for that, too. > I know of households who run everything on that that amount of power per > year. The expected rise in hydro prices will concentrate people's minds > a bit; not before time, either. That's like how LCDs are actually cheaper over 2 years for offices in the silicon valley, because of the power disparity. I wonder when people will start buying laptops instead of desktops, or start paying attention to the Energy Star ratings of computers again. ;) -- taa /*eof*/ -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 21:07:02 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:07:02 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <41337B8B.8060405-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> Message-ID: <413396F6.5060306@rogers.com> Kevin Cozens wrote: > Matt Cahill wrote: > >> Now, under Libranet, I find that it's happening almost *every* time >> I start my computer cold. The external modem is lit "Online" as >> it should, and I'm sure it's fine. Somehow though, there's some >> sort of problem with my box conversing with it. I'm beginning to >> think that perhaps this is an issue on Roger's end (client >> verification of some sort?). Regardless, it's a pain. >> Has anyone else been experiencing this? >> >> > What modem do you have? I had no problems with my Rogers connection at > first. After several months I started having problems. It turned out > that it was a bad modem (I had a Terayon TJ615 modem). It was replaced > with a SurfBoard 5100 and life is good again. > > The only other suggestion is to check the order in which you start your > network interfaces if you have more than one. The interface connected to > the cable modem must be started before the local network interface if > you want to get online to the net. That has been my experience. > Nowadays, Rogers is selling modems and upgrading the service to 5 Mb/800 Kb. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 20:58:59 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 16:58:59 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <41338E5D.2090106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1093899538.30486.65.camel@192.168.1.80> Hey Madison, On Mon, 2004-08-30 at 16:30, Madison Kelly wrote: > Hi all, > > I found some code (finally!) that allows mouse-over help bubbles to > properly be displayed under Mozilla/Linux. Unfortunately I am at a loss > trying to understand how it works. Here is what I can tell so far... > > The javascript looks in a page for certain class(?) and anything > within it is scanned for certain keywords. When a keyword is found it is > highlighted and a mouse-over help bubble is created which is displayed > when the mouse rolls over the key word on the screen. > > From what I can tell (I know very little about JS) it works like this: > > I need: > > > (other stuff) > > > > > . > . > . > Then when I want the JS to seach for words withing a space use 'div': > > align="center"> >
>
> > > > . I would try putting the div around only the text. I have had problems in the past with divs around table rows...might not cause a problem in this case but you might as well start off with the simplest example first. Try just putting it around text like this:
Text
can be formatted using several tags. Mouse over this text to see the ones available. > . > . >
> Text can be > formatted using several tags. Mouse over this text to see the ones > available. >
> > The javascript I am working from (credited to www.pint.com) is like this: > > > -=[ Start JS Code ]=- > // *************************************** > // INCLUDE THIS FILE IN DOCUMENT HEAD > // > // > // INCLUDE THIS IN THE DOCUMENT BODY > // style="visibility: hidden; position: absolute;"> > // *************************************** > > if(document.getElementById) // don't do anything for non-DOM browsers > { > // class name of elements that should be scanned for glossary words > var PINT_GLOSSARY_glossaryClass = "glossary"; > // class name of words that are in the glossary > var PINT_GLOSSARY_definitionClass = "definition"; > // id of popup element that displays the definition > var PINT_GLOSSARY_popupElementId = "definitionPopup"; > > // text to display in status bar as definitions load > var PINT_GLOSSARY_loadingStatusMessage = 'Loading Glossary Definitions...'; > > // distances from mouse to definition popup > var PINT_GLOSSARY_popupOffsetX = 15; > var PINT_GLOSSARY_popupOffsetY = 25; > > // if search should be case sensitive (match word exactly) > var PINT_GLOSSARY_caseSensitive = false; > > // if search should match only entire words (not part of the word) > var PINT_GLOSSARY_wholeWord = true; > > // glossary word/definition list - this is where words and their > definitions are added > var PINT_GLOSSARY_list = new Array(); > PINT_GLOSSARY_list["Text"] = "this is the definition for Text"; > PINT_GLOSSARY_list["morewords"] = "more definitions"; > > > > } > > /* sample styles > > > > */ > > -=[ End JS Code ]=- > > If I understand it the "Text" in "Text can be formatted using several > tags. Mouse over this text to see the ones available." should have a > help-bubble pop up but nothing is happening. > Correct me if I am wrong but there is no onmouseover event even defined so I don't see how anything would happen onmouseover. Plus, I don't see what function would be called for the onmouseover event? > Soooo, am I missing something obvious? Can anyone see what I am doing > wrong? As it is the page (created by perl, btw) seems to make no difference. > There must be more js that you didn't send. Are you sure this is it? > Thanks so much!! > No problem ;) Later Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 21:10:35 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:10:35 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <1895602348.20040830162354-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> Message-ID: <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> Matt Cahill wrote: > Monday, August 30, 2004, 3:10:03 PM, you wrote: > > KC> What modem do you have? I had no problems with my Rogers connection at > KC> first. After several months I started having problems. It turned out > KC> that it was a bad modem (I had a Terayon TJ615 modem). It was replaced > KC> with a SurfBoard 5100 and life is good again. > > Interesting. What was the issue with the Tarayon? I have one, but > I'm pretty sure it's working OK. Did your old Terayon pretend to > work fine by any chance? > I had a Tarayon for about 4 years, until I bought my own Motorola SB5100 modem. My connection is *MUCH* faster now. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 21:15:10 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:15:10 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <413397CB.3040303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <932013390.20040830171510@rogers.com> Monday, August 30, 2004, 5:10:35 PM, you wrote: JK> I had a Tarayon for about 4 years, until I bought my own Motorola SB5100 JK> modem. My connection is *MUCH* faster now. How much? M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com ?Where did this idea come from that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care? Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell.? - Texas state Rep. Debbie Riddle -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 21:15:15 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:15:15 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <1093899538.30486.65.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> <1093899538.30486.65.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <413398E3.4040106@alteeve.com> Devin Whalen wrote: > I would try putting the div around only the text. I have had problems > in the past with divs around table rows...might not cause a problem in > this case but you might as well start off with the simplest example > first. Try just putting it around text like this: > >
Text
can be formatted > using several tags. Mouse over this text to see the ones available. Thanks for the suggestion but in this case it didn't help. I must be messing up elsewhere. > Correct me if I am wrong but there is no onmouseover event even defined > so I don't see how anything would happen onmouseover. Plus, I don't see > what function would be called for the onmouseover event? There probably is... I'm using a website from Viewsonic as my example. Here is the code working properly when people who know what they are doing write it: http://viewsonic.com/monitoruniversity/lcdbasics.htm Note: The link has a flash video with audio explaining how LCD panels work. It was the only page I could find where the help-bubbles worked properly under Mozilla. The direct link to the JS script with used by this page is: http://viewsonic.com/monitoruniversity/scripts/glossary_monitoruniversity.js There are other scripts it calls too so maybe what I am missing is in one of them. > There must be more js that you didn't send. Are you sure this is it? I looked again and I can't see anything else that might be relevant. Obviously there is though and I am missing it. Thanks Devin!! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 21:45:33 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:45:33 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <932013390.20040830171510-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> <932013390.20040830171510@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41339FFD.9020700@rogers.com> Matt Cahill wrote: > Monday, August 30, 2004, 5:10:35 PM, you wrote: > > JK> I had a Tarayon for about 4 years, until I bought my own Motorola SB5100 > JK> modem. My connection is *MUCH* faster now. > > How much? It's now 5 Mb down and 800K up. IIRC, it used to be 3Mb/374Kb or something on that order. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 21:43:24 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 17:43:24 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <413398E3.4040106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> <1093899538.30486.65.camel@192.168.1.80> <413398E3.4040106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1093902203.30486.80.camel@192.168.1.80> On Mon, 2004-08-30 at 17:15, Madison Kelly wrote: > Devin Whalen wrote: > > I would try putting the div around only the text. I have had problems > > in the past with divs around table rows...might not cause a problem in > > this case but you might as well start off with the simplest example > > first. Try just putting it around text like this: > > > >
Text
can be formatted > > using several tags. Mouse over this text to see the ones available. > > Thanks for the suggestion but in this case it didn't help. I must be > messing up elsewhere. > > > Correct me if I am wrong but there is no onmouseover event even defined > > so I don't see how anything would happen onmouseover. Plus, I don't see > > what function would be called for the onmouseover event? > > There probably is... I'm using a website from Viewsonic as my example. > Here is the code working properly when people who know what they are > doing write it: > > http://viewsonic.com/monitoruniversity/lcdbasics.htm > > Note: The link has a flash video with audio explaining how LCD panels > work. It was the only page I could find where the help-bubbles worked > properly under Mozilla. > > The direct link to the JS script with used by this page is: > > http://viewsonic.com/monitoruniversity/scripts/glossary_monitoruniversity.js > > There are other scripts it calls too so maybe what I am missing is in > one of them. > > > There must be more js that you didn't send. Are you sure this is it? > > I looked again and I can't see anything else that might be relevant. > Obviously there is though and I am missing it. Thanks Devin!! > > Madison > -- > The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml Hey, Well I looked at the website and these little help popups are really nice. I am actually thinking of adding something like this to the web application I currently work on. The thing is, you are missing some files. If you look at the source code for the web site they have these files: Here is a link to one of them (this link you gave is not actually correct, if you look at the src it has a ../ at the beginning so you have to go one level above before going to scripts): http://www.viewsonic.com/scripts/pint_common.js You see, in these files all the onmouseover events are attached to the words along with many other things going on. I would make sure you have all these files first and then try to edit them to fit your needs. Hope this helps. Good Luck. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Mon Aug 30 22:45:16 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 18:45:16 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: References: <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <41338EB4.4010903@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <4133ADFC.5020603@sympatico.ca> The Edge of the Ice wrote: > > That is of course why I bought my Netwinder. Similarly, that's why I have a Linksys NSLU2; a frugal little fileserver for the house. And no, I'm not interested in hacking it to do other things. > Not that I actually pay for power (included in my rent) There was some talk of a provincial bill separating utility bills off from rent. It might be a decent incentive to save money. > I wonder when people will start buying laptops instead of desktops Perhaps when Ontario's power hits a realistic price. Paul Gipe, executive director of the Ontario Sustainable Energy Association, has been preaching laptops for years for this very reason. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 04:03:40 2004 From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matt Cahill) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 00:03:40 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <4133ADFC.5020603-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4133ADFC.5020603@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200408310003.40369.m-cahill@rogers.com> Well, well...after posting to the Libranet board, it turned out the baby was running PUMP (cue screams from RedHat users), which Rogers doesn't play nicely with anymore. I switched to dhcp/dhcp-client, played with the dhclient.conf file, prayed, and it seems to work now (fingers crossed). In other news, some advice: don't uninstall your dhcp client until you have local copies of it (or the alternative you wanted to replace it with). Discovered I'd left myself without a network to apply the fix, couldn't find the original 'pump' package, and had to go to an Internet Cafe to snatch .deb files (!). Testament to UNIX, I put 2 debs and a txt-file of instruction-clippings on one floppy (with room to spare). Thanks to everyone for the help. So far so good. M -- Matt Cahill m dash cahill at rogers dot com -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 12:14:48 2004 From: hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Hoshil N. Desai) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:14:48 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <413398E3.4040106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <413398E3.4040106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> Hi Everyone, I know this topic was discussed not long ago, but I didn't pay much attention to it at that time and I am now paying the price. I have about 650 jpeg's (approx. 1.5 MB each) from a recent family reunion. I need to shrink them down and start e-mailing them and/or posting them on my site. I would prefer a command line interface. I don't have a monitor connected to my Linux machine. I normally ssh into Linux from a windows machine. If someone could point me to the archive or even better if someone has already done this could pass some first hand knowledge, I would appreciate it. And not to waste anyone else's time with a repetitive question, you could contact me off the list. Thank you, Hoshil -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 12:27:44 2004 From: scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Allen) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 08:27:44 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>; from hoshildesai-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Tue, Aug 31, 2004 at 08:14:48 -0400 References: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <20040831122744.GA3812@localhost> On Tue Aug 31,2004 08:14:48 AM Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > I have about 650 jpeg's (approx. 1.5 MB each) from a recent family > reunion. > I need to shrink them down and start e-mailing them and/or posting > them on my site. > > I would prefer a command line interface. For a command line interface that can do just about anything you want with image files, I would suggest the various commands in the Imagemagick package. http://www.imagemagick.org/ -- ** Scott Allen scotta-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org ** ** Toronto, Ontario, Canada ** -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 13:16:54 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 09:16:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > I know this topic was discussed not long ago, but I didn't pay much > attention to it at that time and I am now paying the price. No archive of old messages? While it slows down the startup of my E-Mail program, I keep a fair bit of history on the various lists that I belong to. > I have about 650 jpeg's (approx. 1.5 MB each) from a recent family reunion. > I need to shrink them down and start e-mailing them and/or posting them on > my site. Check out 'convert' -- I wrote a Perl script that builds a picture gallery that works fairly well, calling convert to scale the images to 600x600 (for the display image) and 100x100 (for the thumbnail). Then I build a bunch of web pages with the display image, a link to the original image and thumbnails for the next and previous images, as well as a master page of thumbnails that link to the display page. Just doing a 'man convert' will get you going. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 14:11:11 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:11:11 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: References: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <413486FF.7090903@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: | On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: | | |>Hi Everyone, |> |>I know this topic was discussed not long ago, but I didn't pay much |>attention to it at that time and I am now paying the price. Archive of the thread: | Check out 'convert' -- I wrote a Perl script that builds a picture gallery | that works fairly well, calling convert to scale the images to 600x600 | (for the display image) and 100x100 (for the thumbnail). Then I build a | bunch of web pages with the display image, a link to the original image | and thumbnails for the next and previous images, as well as a master page | of thumbnails that link to the display page. There is 'mogrify', also from the imagemagick package. It has mostly the same options as convert, but will process multiple images by overwriting them with the new version. | | Just doing a 'man convert' will get you going. And don't forget 'man imagemagick' for more description of all the options. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBNIb9RreNkzrRRLQRAvcuAJ9uzJYtRNeUlkPlilFnk3FvwQX3nQCgnnoA G23Oq1vIyoOpy2GZ8THDM7A= =nHWn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 14:28:43 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:28:43 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <1093902203.30486.80.camel-Q0ErXNX1RuZfoPjnVdcuGw@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> <1093899538.30486.65.camel@192.168.1.80> <413398E3.4040106@alteeve.com> <1093902203.30486.80.camel@192.168.1.80> Message-ID: <41348B1B.5000101@alteeve.com> Devin Whalen wrote: > Hey, > > Well I looked at the website and these little help popups are really > nice. I am actually thinking of adding something like this to the web > application I currently work on. The thing is, you are missing some > files. If you look at the source code for the web site they have these > files: > > > > > > > > > Here is a link to one of them (this link you gave is not actually > correct, if you look at the src it has a ../ at the beginning so you > have to go one level above before going to scripts): > http://www.viewsonic.com/scripts/pint_common.js > > You see, in these files all the onmouseover events are attached to the > words along with many other things going on. I would make sure you have > all these files first and then try to edit them to fit your needs. Hope > this helps. Good Luck. > > > Later You were right. Grabbing those files made it work. I'm going to need a fair bit of time to figure out how all of those files interact, specially given how limited my JS knowledge is. I got it working though thanks to your help and that is a big start. Thank you -very- much! Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 14:46:38 2004 From: devin-Gq53QDLGkWIleAitJ8REmdBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Devin Whalen) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:46:38 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <41348B1B.5000101-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> <1093899538.30486.65.camel@192.168.1.80> <413398E3.4040106@alteeve.com> <1093902203.30486.80.camel@192.168.1.80> <41348B1B.5000101@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <1093963598.15276.35.camel@192.168.1.80> On Tue, 2004-08-31 at 10:28, Madison Kelly wrote: > Devin Whalen wrote: > > Hey, > > > > Well I looked at the website and these little help popups are really > > nice. I am actually thinking of adding something like this to the web > > application I currently work on. The thing is, you are missing some > > files. If you look at the source code for the web site they have these > > files: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Here is a link to one of them (this link you gave is not actually > > correct, if you look at the src it has a ../ at the beginning so you > > have to go one level above before going to scripts): > > http://www.viewsonic.com/scripts/pint_common.js > > > > You see, in these files all the onmouseover events are attached to the > > words along with many other things going on. I would make sure you have > > all these files first and then try to edit them to fit your needs. Hope > > this helps. Good Luck. > > > > > > Later > > You were right. Grabbing those files made it work. I'm going to need > a fair bit of time to figure out how all of those files interact, > specially given how limited my JS knowledge is. I got it working though > thanks to your help and that is a big start. Thank you -very- much! > > Madison > -- No problem. Yeah, I looked at the javascript and it is *quite* complicated for javascript. I just glanced at a few of the files and there is a lot going on especially for someone who has a limited knowledge of javascript, like you said. If you have any problems don't hesitate to ask. As I said before, I want to make something like this for myself and any issues you have might help me when making mine (browser issues and so on). Although, I think they use way too much javascript, it really adds to load times. Later -- Devin Whalen Programmer Synaptic Vision Inc Phone-(416) 539-0801 Fax- (416) 539-8280 1179A King St. West Toronto, Ontario Suite 309 M6K 3C5 Home-(416) 653-3982 -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 14:55:50 2004 From: cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:55:50 -0400 Subject: Understanding LA files Message-ID: <41349176.6030504@digitalfairway.com> Hello: Last week while trying to compile some software (kde-pim to be exact) I kept getting errors doing a make. g++ kept complaining about missing la files (libgthread, libglib and a third that I can't recall off the top of my head ATM). Anyway, g++ was complaining that it couldn't find the files in /opt/gnome/lib. But they live(d) in /usr/lib. What I am trying to figure out is how or what told g++ to look in /opt/gnome/lib for those la files? thanks -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 15:05:08 2004 From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Understanding LA files In-Reply-To: <41349176.6030504-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org> References: <41349176.6030504@digitalfairway.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Chris Gow wrote: > Last week while trying to compile some software (kde-pim to be exact) I > kept getting errors doing a make. g++ kept complaining about missing > la files (libgthread, libglib and a third that I can't recall off the > top of my head ATM). Anyway, g++ was complaining that it couldn't find > the files in /opt/gnome/lib. But they live(d) in /usr/lib. What I am > trying to figure out is how or what told g++ to look in /opt/gnome/lib > for those la files? The first two places I'd look would be the in the make file and in your environment. Alex -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 15:14:45 2004 From: fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:14:45 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org> References: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> Message-ID: <200408311114.46017.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> On August 31, 2004 08:14 am, Hoshil N. Desai wrote: > I have about 650 jpeg's (approx. 1.5 MB each) from a recent family reunion. > I need to shrink them down and start e-mailing them and/or posting them on > my site. There's lots of software for creating image galleries. I think it's highly preferable to use a website rather than email, some people still have dialup. I use igal, it's a simple command line program (as simple as "igal ." if you like). Software's at http://www.stanford.edu/~epop/igal (if you use Debian then just apt-get install it). You can see a small example with some of my pics at http://www.wehave.net/pictures/2004/georgetown-sunset/ if yo -- Fraser Campbell http://www.wehave.net/ Georgetown, Ontario, Canada Debian GNU/Linux -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 15:20:17 2004 From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:20:17 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <413486FF.7090903-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> <413486FF.7090903@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <41349731.9010407@sympatico.ca> Anton Markov wrote: > > And don't forget 'man imagemagick' for more description of all the options. Actually, it's case-sensitive: 'man ImageMagick' works here. And, hooray, you can specify the resizing filter with '-filter '. But it still doesn't have a way of specifying optimal JPEG options (specifically DCT encoder type), so I might still have to use PPM and cjpeg. You could do: for f in *.jpg do convert -geometry 25% $f `basename $f .jpg`_x.jpg done to create images at 25%, renamed with '_x'. You might want to play with the JPEG quality options, 'cos the defaults are bad nasty. Alternatively, if you have your website hosted, I'd hugely recommend installing Gallery . All you need to do is upload the pictures -- it handles thumbnailing, layout, the lot. Stewart -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 15:26:06 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:26:06 -0400 Subject: Shrinking Images In-Reply-To: <200408311114.46017.fraser-eicrhRFjby5dCsDujFhwbypxlwaOVQ5f@public.gmane.org> References: <20040831121502.BF62B6D99A@lethe.ss.org> <200408311114.46017.fraser@georgetown.wehave.net> Message-ID: <4134988E.5080509@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fraser Campbell wrote: | There's lots of software for creating image galleries. I think it's highly | preferable to use a website rather than email, some people still have dialup. Yes, and many people still use Hotmail or something else with a size limit. | | I use igal, it's a simple command line program (as simple as "igal ." if you | like). Software's at http://www.stanford.edu/~epop/igal (if you use Debian | then just apt-get install it). Or take a look at IDS. It's a perl/ImageMagick (PerlMagick) based image gallery app. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBNJiNRreNkzrRRLQRAk9eAJ91GvAh0ij/91KVJXoSdbF2VYo9KgCfelM3 yB+ykvqUp5GkT4nGc/9k3Aw= =rBBt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 14:49:42 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 10:49:42 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <41338E5D.2090106-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <41349006.3000806@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Madison Kelly wrote: | Hi all, | | I found some code (finally!) that allows mouse-over help bubbles to | properly be displayed under Mozilla/Linux. Unfortunately I am at a loss | trying to understand how it works. Here is what I can tell so far... There are plenty of scripts that allow popups under Mozilla/Linux. DynamicDrive.com has a lot of them here: Maybe this'll help you figure out how they work. - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBNJAERreNkzrRRLQRAo5yAJ9sRkcRpu4c3kxCtrtLHrliNCI4fACgkrHn J1v7Ja/WRB2DYfWcXZgTg/Y= =RH4H -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 15:50:55 2004 From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 11:50:55 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <41349006.3000806-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> <41349006.3000806@truxtar.com> Message-ID: <41349E5F.6070503@alteeve.com> Anton Markov wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Madison Kelly wrote: > | Hi all, > | > | I found some code (finally!) that allows mouse-over help bubbles to > | properly be displayed under Mozilla/Linux. Unfortunately I am at a loss > | trying to understand how it works. Here is what I can tell so far... > > There are plenty of scripts that allow popups under Mozilla/Linux. > DynamicDrive.com has a lot of them here: > > > Maybe this'll help you figure out how they work. Wonderful, thank you! This one works great: http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex5/popinfo3.htm The only trick I haven't figured out is how to speed up the fade in effect but everything else works well. Madison -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 16:10:24 2004 From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 12:10:24 -0400 Subject: JS keyword search/help bubble help In-Reply-To: <41349E5F.6070503-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> References: <41338E5D.2090106@alteeve.com> <41349006.3000806@truxtar.com> <41349E5F.6070503@alteeve.com> Message-ID: <4134A2F0.7010300@truxtar.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Madison Kelly wrote: | Wonderful, thank you! This one works great: | | http://www.dynamicdrive.com/dynamicindex5/popinfo3.htm | | The only trick I haven't figured out is how to speed up the fade in | effect but everything else works well. | I believe the answer is in this function: | function incropacity(){ | if(ieop<=100){ // You could increase this to fade in by larger increments | ieop+=7; | if(IE4 || IE5)navtxt.style.filter="alpha(opacity="+ieop+")"; | if(NS6)navtxt.style.MozOpacity=ieop/100; // Or decrease this timeout value (in milliseconds most likely) | op_id=setTimeout('incropacity()', 50); | }} Also, remember that alpha effects are cpu-intensive. It could be that your CPU can't render the effect at full speed (and think about the systems of your users). - -- Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")> GnuPG Key fingerprint = 5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4 *** LINUX - MAY THE SOURCE BE WITH YOU! *** -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFBNKLvRreNkzrRRLQRAmnxAJ9skHmGETDdpSLr/yWRICpecchliACfY724 rdMvZ61DlwFTksoG/f2H2I4= =xPH/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 17:12:45 2004 From: cgow-FlpYSvOe4acWeH+WijV1tNBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (Chris Gow) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:12:45 -0400 Subject: Understanding LA files In-Reply-To: References: <41349176.6030504@digitalfairway.com> Message-ID: <4134B18D.9070203@digitalfairway.com> talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote: > On Tue, 31 Aug 2004, Chris Gow wrote: > > What I am >>trying to figure out is how or what told g++ to look in /opt/gnome/lib >>for those la files? > > > The first two places I'd look would be the in the make file and in your > environment. I attempted to check the Makefile but A) My make knowledge is pretty limited B) It is a Makefile generated by the configure script. I did a env | grep '/opt/gnome/lib' and the only entry I got back was PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/opt/gnome/lib. Which I unset and then re-ran configure. I wound up getting the same error. -- chris -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 17:30:57 2004 From: nastos-JAjqph6Yjy8fbXvGcxQkLSwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Fred Nastos) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:30:57 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <4133ADFC.5020603-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> References: <20040830201249.68394.qmail@web88106.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <4133ADFC.5020603@sympatico.ca> Message-ID: <200408311330.57190.nastos@physics.utoronto.ca> On August 30, 2004 06:45 pm, Stewart C. Russell wrote: > The Edge of the Ice wrote: > > That is of course why I bought my Netwinder. > > Similarly, that's why I have a Linksys NSLU2; a frugal little fileserver > for the house. And no, I'm not interested in hacking it to do other things. A question, just so I can be certain (I know little about networking): If I get one of these, can I easily hook it up to my router, and from the office send files home to the usb drive connected to the fileserver? That way I can leave my power-sucking home computer off. Right now, I use a flash drive to carry files back and forth, but it is a liitle annoying. I'd much rather just be able to send files back and forth over the net. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 23:57:33 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:57:33 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <41339FFD.9020700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> <932013390.20040830171510@rogers.com> <41339FFD.9020700@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > Matt Cahill wrote: >> Monday, August 30, 2004, 5:10:35 PM, you wrote: >> >> JK> I had a Tarayon for about 4 years, until I bought my own Motorola >> SB5100 >> JK> modem. My connection is *MUCH* faster now. >> >> How much? > > It's now 5 Mb down and 800K up. IIRC, it used to be 3Mb/374Kb or something > on that order. please disregard my previous posting, you have answered my question here, thanks, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 23:56:14 2004 From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:56:14 -0400 (EDT) Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <413397CB.3040303-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > Matt Cahill wrote: >> Monday, August 30, 2004, 3:10:03 PM, you wrote: >> >> KC> What modem do you have? I had no problems with my Rogers connection at >> KC> first. After several months I started having problems. It turned out >> KC> that it was a bad modem (I had a Terayon TJ615 modem). It was replaced >> KC> with a SurfBoard 5100 and life is good again. >> >> Interesting. What was the issue with the Tarayon? I have one, but >> I'm pretty sure it's working OK. Did your old Terayon pretend to >> work fine by any chance? >> > > I had a Tarayon for about 4 years, until I bought my own Motorola SB5100 > modem. My connection is *MUCH* faster now. Really ? That's interesting. I see 100k real speed on a terayon cable modem (128 k connection). How much faster can one go ? Considering all the dumb arp traffic on the cable, I'd say you can't go faster. Of course I don't know about Rogers. Maybe they have more switches. It would be interesting to know how much speed one can gain by switching modems ? tia, Peter -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 21:25:24 2004 From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 17:25:24 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> <413397CB.3040303@rogers.com> Message-ID: <4134ECC4.2080309@rogers.com> Peter L. Peres wrote: > > On Mon, 30 Aug 2004, James Knott wrote: > >> Matt Cahill wrote: >> >>> Monday, August 30, 2004, 3:10:03 PM, you wrote: >>> >>> KC> What modem do you have? I had no problems with my Rogers >>> connection at >>> KC> first. After several months I started having problems. It turned out >>> KC> that it was a bad modem (I had a Terayon TJ615 modem). It was >>> replaced >>> KC> with a SurfBoard 5100 and life is good again. >>> >>> Interesting. What was the issue with the Tarayon? I have one, but >>> I'm pretty sure it's working OK. Did your old Terayon pretend to >>> work fine by any chance? >>> >> >> I had a Tarayon for about 4 years, until I bought my own Motorola >> SB5100 modem. My connection is *MUCH* faster now. > > > Really ? That's interesting. I see 100k real speed on a terayon cable > modem (128 k connection). How much faster can one go ? Considering all > the dumb arp traffic on the cable, I'd say you can't go faster. Of > course I don't know about Rogers. Maybe they have more switches. It > would be interesting to know how much speed one can gain by switching > modems ? I assume you're got the "Lite" version. In that case, no you won't see much more than 100 Kb/s. When you buy your own modem, you get the "Extreme" service, which runs at 5 Mb/s. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org Tue Aug 31 23:31:23 2004 From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens) Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 19:31:23 -0400 Subject: hello again - and a question about Rogers In-Reply-To: <1895602348.20040830162354-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> References: <1845971709.20040830113016@rogers.com> <41337B8B.8060405@interlog.com> <1895602348.20040830162354@rogers.com> Message-ID: <41350A4B.8030407@interlog.com> Matt Cahill wrote: >KC> What modem do you have? I had no problems with my Rogers connection at >KC> first. After several months I started having problems. It turned out >KC> that it was a bad modem (I had a Terayon TJ615 modem). It was replaced >KC> with a SurfBoard 5100 and life is good again. > > Interesting. What was the issue with the Tarayon? I have one, but > I'm pretty sure it's working OK. Did your old Terayon pretend to > work fine by any chance? > After I had been using the cable modem for several months my connection to the net would just go off-line for no apparent reason. The Rx light would be off and there were no lights blinking. To get back online I had to power cycle the modem. The other strange symptom was that I was getting strange lease times on the IP address. In the beginning the lease time was 7 days. When the problems started, my lease times were down to 12 to 18 hours or even less. One time I was getting a lease time where the expiry on the IP was the time at which I renewed the IP. Eventually, I was often losing the connection around every 15 minutes to half an hour. Occasionally I would lose it after 10 minutes. The first time I had someone from Rogers check things out, they didn't do very much and did not replace the modem. I was telling them I suspected a bad modem. The second time I had someone from Rogers come to check things out, there were two people at the door with a new modem in a box. Those two people said that when they hear of problems and know that a TJ615 is involved they swap the modem. I now have a Motorola SurfBoard 5100 and have had no further problems. My top (download) speed with the TJ615 was around 128kB/s (I don't remember the exact number). Right after getting the 5100 modem I was seeing speeds as high as 330kB/s. More recently I have often reached download speeds of 350kB/s. -- Cheers! Kevin. (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/) Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172 |"What are we going to do today, Borg?" E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus: Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na| Try to assimilate the world!" #include | -Pinkutus & the Borg -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml