From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 01:25:15 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:25:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM-Mo3A3Rqcn0o@public.gmane.org>
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>
Message-ID: <14455.216.138.194.32.1062379515.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I am looking to stop giving Ted Roger$ all my money and was looking
> around for a decent service.  I saw Jay mention istop.com and was
> curious if anyone else has any other suggestions.  I'm up in Newmarket
> so I should have access to pretty much anything.  Keys here are Price,
> reliability, and they don't care if you're running servers.....oh
> yeah....and the support deparment must know something more than how to
> spell dns!  LOL

I suggest that you stay clear of dsl.ca. They merged with wiznet a while
back and have hit the dumpster since then. I'm looking for a good provider
myself, hopefully one with some of the perks that dsl.ca carried.



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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 01:39:00 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 21:39:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help With Home Server
In-Reply-To: <001301c36fdf$fc45f860$6200a8c0-s1KvLpT30YgZj6S/xCzO9g@public.gmane.org>
References: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>
        <3F522126.4010302@alteeve.com>
        <001301c36fdf$fc45f860$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>
Message-ID: <14480.216.138.194.32.1062380340.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> okay, for my DNS registration I have the following options
>
> Primary DNS Host:
> Primary DNS IP:
> Secondary DNS Host:
> Secondary DNS IP:
> 3...
> 4..
>
> It tells me I need at least 2. Should I fill them both out with the same
> information both pointing to my machine/IP.  Thats what I did?

That will do in a pinch, but I don't suggest that you leave it like that
for any length of time.

Normally, for dns you want to keep the 2 servers as isolated from each
other as humanly possible... look for a secondary on a different backbone,
even in a different country if possible. I was using granitecanyon for
secondaries until I got a better solution, but they seemed to work out
okay.

> I also asked istop to change from jay.tor.istop.com to
> hostname.domain.ca

Good. More and more mail servers are insisting on it.

> Nowhere does it ask for ZOA or anything like that? I assume that is when
> I set up the DNS on my machine with BIND or whatever software?

I believe that was typo on Madison's part.... should be SOA for Start of
Authority

If this is your first time out working with dns, slow and easy is the
catch phrase. Read the docs, set it up, reread the docs, tweak it, and so
on and so forth. It's very easy thoeretically to muck up dns so that it
affects a lot more than just your own network. RFC1918 is a good resource.

Pay attention to views later on, so you can set up the server to limit
access based on source IP. What's on your private network is only your
business.

<snip>


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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 01:52:23 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 31 Aug 2003 21:52:23 -0400
Subject: Linux laptops [was Re:Windows refund: stymied]
In-Reply-To: <20030829195928.GB24417-cOjNTMaGA5U@public.gmane.org>
References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net>
	<1062183004.15716.5.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>
	<26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<20030829195928.GB24417@paip.net>
Message-ID: <lvisodb7hk.fsf_-_@newsol.starnix.com>

Ian Goldberg <linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org> writes:
> (Well, and I'd like leads on laptops in the CA$1500-CA$2000 range that
> run Linux.)

Check out the Dell Inspiron 1100.  Two of us at Starnix got them and are very
happy.  I haven't used my desktop since mine showed up.

If you need silly things like serial ports, though, you have to buy an add-on
USB device.  The one from Dell is a Targus product at $200 :(  I believe that
you can get others, though.
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 01:54:22 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 31 Aug 2003 21:54:22 -0400
Subject: Windows refund: stymied
In-Reply-To: <20030829205158.GA27510-cOjNTMaGA5U@public.gmane.org>
References: <200308290154.h7T1sxiR009692@brandeis.paip.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.33.0308291516280.4293-100000@white.buynet.com>
	<20030829205158.GA27510@paip.net>
Message-ID: <lvekz1b7e9.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Ian Goldberg <linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org> writes:
> On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:43:33PM -0400, Herb Richter wrote:
> > BTW, I see a very interesting situation here:  if in fact the two
> > contracts are separate and the first cannot bind the buyer to agree to
> > the second; can the buyer end up with a "legal" instance of the OS without
> > being obligated by the eula?
> 
> As far as I understand, this is never possible.  You can do all the
> tricks you like to avoid agreeing to the EULA, but since that's the
> document which grants you the permission you need to *copy the software
> from the hard disk to the computer's memory*, you'd no longer be allowed
> to do that.

Ian,

Read that article on the California guy closer.  He covers this.  He didn't
even go to court with a copy of the EULA [although he could have gotten it
elsewhere] and he still won.

Judges are human, too ;)
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 01:59:01 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 31 Aug 2003 21:59:01 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac-P7qxLNPzLDU@public.gmane.org>
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>
	<041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro>
Message-ID: <lv8yp9b76i.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

"Matthew M. Gamble" <tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> writes:
> Well, as the Senior Network Admin for Echo Online (www.eol.ca) I can say
> (with some bias) that our service is decent and our support usually knows
> what they are doing.  

Matthew, I'm moving in October and was thinking of using VoIP [yes, with
asterisk] to the office as my new home number :)

Do I need to have phone service on my home line to get DSL service?  Please
say no.


> On top of that, we just removed our bandwidth caps from DSL.  You can run
> whatever servers you want, as long you don't run an open relay :-)

Can I open up my squid cache and charge money for the porn?
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 02:07:22 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:07:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Windows refund: UNstymied
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0308292221570.30493-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <26476.216.138.194.32.1062185845.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.44.0308292221570.30493-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <14603.216.138.194.32.1062382042.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Fri, 29 Aug 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> >> http://www.cypherpunks.ca/dell.html
>
>> I agree to where I've been sseing this thread going, but I have a
>> question...
>>
>> Where will this all lead to? We send a petition, they look at it and
>
> Tongue firmly planted in cheek...:
>
> Imagine a person X and a group Y, vendor A.
> X must agree to document, document, document!
> (as in original linuxtoday article; anyone have that reference?)
>
> Where I see this going is this (t = #days):
>
> t=0:  -1) X and Y agree on a course of action.
> t=1:   0) X starts process with vendor.
> t=30   1) Y: set up a web page offering help for DIYselfers.
> t=60   2) X and A go to small claims court
> t=60.5 3) X and Y party
> t=61   4) Y posts newsblitz: 1 peson helped
> t=65   5) repeat steps 0-5 with 10**i more people.

... I thought this would hit the proverbial fan, and I was right,
obviously.... :)
<snip>

Well, good luck with it.


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From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 02:52:08 2003
From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 22:52:08 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan><041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro> <lv8yp9b76i.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <005901c37034$08f85a90$070010ac@pyro>


> "Matthew M. Gamble" <tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> writes:
> > Well, as the Senior Network Admin for Echo Online (www.eol.ca) I can say
> > (with some bias) that our service is decent and our support usually
knows
> > what they are doing.
>
> Matthew, I'm moving in October and was thinking of using VoIP [yes, with
> asterisk] to the office as my new home number :)
>
> Do I need to have phone service on my home line to get DSL service?
Please
> say no.
>
>
> > On top of that, we just removed our bandwidth caps from DSL.  You can
run
> > whatever servers you want, as long you don't run an open relay :-)
>
> Can I open up my squid cache and charge money for the porn?


Right now, no one is offering DSL without phone service (that I know of).
While it would be possible for Bell to do, they won't (remember, all ISP's
buy the raw DSL circuits from Bell Nexxia).  A few of the new CLEC's in
Canada were thinking about doing it, but I haven't seen anyone offer it yet.

As for using VoIP as your primary home phone you need to remember that most
(if not all) VoIP services don't offer 911.  If you ever have an emergency
or power outage at your house, you are screwed for phone service.

What I'd do in your house is install a single line from Bell, run DSL over
it, and put it into a local Asterisk box.  Then run IAX trunking back from
your house to the office (making your house a 'satellite office' of sorts).
That way (with the right call routing) if your internet connection is down
you can still make calls through the local asterisk box and dial 911.

Just my 0.02

M. Gamble


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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 03:35:31 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 23:35:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Help With Home Server
In-Reply-To: <14480.216.138.194.32.1062380340.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>       
 <3F522126.4010302@alteeve.com>        <001301c36fdf$fc45f860$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>
 <14480.216.138.194.32.1062380340.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0308312328220.13781@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> > I also asked istop to change from jay.tor.istop.com to
> > hostname.domain.ca
>
> Good. More and more mail servers are insisting on it.

Yes, this is a good point that I forgot to mention in my previous email.
If the box is going to act as a mail server then having the reverse lookup
match for the forward is virtually a must.  Thanks to the spammers most
MTAs (Mail Transport Agents) are now really careful on this point.  Many
MTAs will advise when the forward & reverse lookups do not match on mail
they receive (or if there is no reverse) and some may even silently drop
the mail (although this is dangerous as much mail will be lost this way).

For those wondering, configuring the dns in this way is not incompatible
with an MTA handling mail for many domains, the MX just needs to be set to
match the reverse lookup for the machine.  Machines listed as MXs for the
domain need not be in that domain afterall.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
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From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 05:40:52 2003
From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 01:40:52 -0400
Subject: Help With Home Server
References: <002101c36fdb$60d63d80$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>        <3F522126.4010302@alteeve.com>        <001301c36fdf$fc45f860$6200a8c0@jrccomputer> <14480.216.138.194.32.1062380340.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0308312328220.13781@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <003101c3704b$b2f4c670$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>

Thanks for all the tips... no doubt I'll have more questions along the way
:-)

Jay
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Brockway" <robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 31, 2003 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Help With Home Server


> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
> > > I also asked istop to change from jay.tor.istop.com to
> > > hostname.domain.ca
> >
> > Good. More and more mail servers are insisting on it.
>
> Yes, this is a good point that I forgot to mention in my previous email.
> If the box is going to act as a mail server then having the reverse lookup
> match for the forward is virtually a must.  Thanks to the spammers most
> MTAs (Mail Transport Agents) are now really careful on this point.  Many
> MTAs will advise when the forward & reverse lookups do not match on mail
> they receive (or if there is no reverse) and some may even silently drop
> the mail (although this is dangerous as much mail will be lost this way).
>
> For those wondering, configuring the dns in this way is not incompatible
> with an MTA handling mail for many domains, the MX just needs to be set to
> match the reverse lookup for the machine.  Machines listed as MXs for the
> domain need not be in that domain afterall.
>
> Rob
>
> -- 
> Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org,
zzbrock-cFo9iiqjkw8eIZ0/mPfg9Q at public.gmane.org
> Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
> "The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 14:29:41 2003
From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk)
Date: 1 Sep 2003 14:29:41 -0000
Subject: Windows refund: stymied
Message-ID: <20030901142941.66448.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>

Wal-Mart's web site http://www.walmart.com is selling Desktop PCs
(Microtel) with SuSE Linux preloaded. Also Lycoris and Lindows. They
currently offer a Notebook PC with Windows but I'm sure this will
change if they receive enough requests for Linux preloaded given their
critical mass in the business community.
RickT

Driving Force Technologies Ltd.
Rick Tomaschuk
Email: rickt-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org

Novell Resource: http://www.TorontoNUI.ca


On 31 Aug 2003 21:54:22 -0400, Matthew Rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote :

> Ian Goldberg <linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org> writes:
> > On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 04:43:33PM -0400, Herb Richter wrote:
> > > BTW, I see a very interesting situation here:  if in fact the two
> > > contracts are separate and the first cannot bind the buyer to
agree to
> > > the second; can the buyer end up with a "legal" instance of the
OS without
> > > being obligated by the eula?
> > 
> > As far as I understand, this is never possible.  You can do all the
> > tricks you like to avoid agreeing to the EULA, but since that's the
> > document which grants you the permission you need to *copy the
software
> > from the hard disk to the computer's memory*, you'd no longer be
allowed
> > to do that.
> 
> Ian,
> 
> Read that article on the California guy closer.  He covers this.  He
didn't
> even go to court with a copy of the EULA [although he could have
gotten it
> elsewhere] and he still won.
> 
> Judges are human, too ;)
> -- 
> matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                              
starnix inc.
> phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario,
canada
> http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services &
products
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> 
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 16:27:25 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:27:25 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac-P7qxLNPzLDU@public.gmane.org>
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>
	<041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro>
Message-ID: <20030901122725.6922ff87.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:01:45 -0400
"Matthew M. Gamble" <tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> --- WARRING - SHAMELESS PLUG ---
> 
> Well, as the Senior Network Admin for Echo Online (www.eol.ca) I can say
> (with some bias) that our service is decent and our support usually knows
> what they are doing.  On top of that, we just removed our bandwidth caps
> from DSL.  You can run whatever servers you want, as long you don't run an
> open relay :-)
> 
> --- END SHAMELESS PLUG ---
> 
> Regards,
> 
> M. Gamble

Matthew,

   Is there any chance of Echo Online bringing its shell server back online?  You are still advertising this.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 16:38:17 2003
From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:38:17 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
References: <3F4BC412.8020101@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <001d01c370a7$72661d50$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dave Stubbs" <dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: SCO has valid case


>
> > BTW... and this is entirely speculation... what happens to software if
> > the
> > copyright owner is defunct? It's not like SCO is going to leave a will
or
> > an estate. Is it at this point that M$ buys the ...what? ...copyrights?
> > ...SCO? outright for nothing in a short stock trade? Remember this?
> >
> >
> NOW it's getting interesting!
>
> This might be very very important.  SCO is pretty much a starving,
> almost-dead, shrivelled, emaciated near-corpse and for all that, is
> making quite a racket.  They haven't been able to ship a compelling
> product in years.  Any time I've ever had to support SCO Unix I've hated
> it.  ALL of the other UNIXes are much more amenable to easy
> administration, and a lot more of the usual tools you'd expect are there.
>
> Anyway, what happens if SCO folds up and goes out of business?  How bad
> would it be if Microsoft bought the leftovers of SCO and decided to
> continue the fight, just for fun?  Could Microsoft afford to litigate
> Linux into oblivion?  At least in the US anyway?
>
> Finally, would it be possible to get concerned Linux users together to
> buy SCO?  Or at least to buy the scraps if they folded up?  Maybe then
> we could officially bequeath UNIX to the public domain...
>
> If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause,
> could we do it?

I pretty sure I could find a 100 bucks, why not submit the idea to newsforge
or slashdot if for no other reason than to debate the issue.



> Dave...
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 16:49:05 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 12:49:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <3F4A8433.6020908-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
 <26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309011243020.18147@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Dave Stubbs wrote:

> Anyway, what happens if SCO folds up and goes out of business?  How bad

If they were sued out of business by IBM I suspect the courts would award
trademarks, patents, etc to IBM in lieu of the money they couldn't pay up.
Alternatively the administrators would have to sell off the assets in
order to raise capital to pay the debts.  I suspect IBM would want the
trademarks, etc more than a bit of extra cash (which they already have
plenty of).

> continue the fight, just for fun?  Could Microsoft afford to litigate
> Linux into oblivion?  At least in the US anyway?

If that happened the world would lose more than just a free OS.

I have repeatedly said that if things got to the stage that Laywers ruled
IT and innovation was effectively stifled I'd leave IT and go do something
else.  I have no interest in playing their game.

> Finally, would it be possible to get concerned Linux users together to
> buy SCO?  Or at least to buy the scraps if they folded up?  Maybe then
> we could officially bequeath UNIX to the public domain...
>
> If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause,
> could we do it?

I'd certainly put the money up, but I don't think we'd get the option.
IBM would pick over the bones of SCO first.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 18:08:06 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:08:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309011243020.18147-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
        <26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309011243020.18147@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <15825.216.138.194.32.1062439686.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Mon, 25 Aug 2003, Dave Stubbs wrote:
>
>> Anyway, what happens if SCO folds up and goes out of business?  How
>> bad
>
> If they were sued out of business by IBM I suspect the courts would
> award trademarks, patents, etc to IBM in lieu of the money they couldn't
> pay up. Alternatively the administrators would have to sell off the
> assets in order to raise capital to pay the debts.  I suspect IBM would
> want the trademarks, etc more than a bit of extra cash (which they
> already have plenty of).

Is SCO in debt to IBM? With the backdoor deals undoubtedly done here, I
suspect that they're going to wind up more in debt to M$ than anyone else.

>> continue the fight, just for fun?  Could Microsoft afford to litigate
>> Linux into oblivion?  At least in the US anyway?
>
> If that happened the world would lose more than just a free OS.

...which M$ would die to make happen.

> I have repeatedly said that if things got to the stage that Laywers
> ruled IT and innovation was effectively stifled I'd leave IT and go do
> something else.  I have no interest in playing their game.
>
>> Finally, would it be possible to get concerned Linux users together to
>> buy SCO?  Or at least to buy the scraps if they folded up?  Maybe then
>> we could officially bequeath UNIX to the public domain...
>>
>> If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause,
>> could we do it?
>
> I'd certainly put the money up, but I don't think we'd get the option.
> IBM would pick over the bones of SCO first.



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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 18:13:52 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:13:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <001d01c370a7$72661d50$6200a8c0-s1KvLpT30YgZj6S/xCzO9g@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F4BC412.8020101@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
        <001d01c370a7$72661d50$6200a8c0@jrccomputer>
Message-ID: <15844.216.138.194.32.1062440032.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<snip>
>> If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause,
>> could we do it?
>
> I pretty sure I could find a 100 bucks, why not submit the idea to
> newsforge or slashdot if for no other reason than to debate the issue.

Now would not be the time to do it. SCO stock prices are up, there's a lot
of publicity all over them, and any offer to buy SCO at this point would
be over-bidded. No. We want to wait until they have gasped their last
dying breath and then start the bidding war.

It would make good headlines though... linux community to purchase SCO :)


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From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  1 18:28:16 2003
From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble)
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:28:16 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan><041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro> <20030901122725.6922ff87.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <015001c370b6$cffaba20$070010ac@pyro>

I wanted to bring the shell server back online, but it is just too big a
security risk to run one these days.  Between people using it to run IRC
bots, send out spam, etc it just became too big a headache.  Anyways, I'll
try to push it by management again, but don't hold your breath.  You are the
first person I've even heard mention our old shell service in the past year.

If you (or anyone on this list, for that matter) really wants / need a shell
account, talk to me off the list and I'll see what I can do.  I run a few
co-lo'd Unix boxes and don't mind giving out free services (shell, DNS, web
hosting, etc).  Perhaps we could setup a tlug shell server?  Also, if anyone
is looking for a secondary DNS host, I can provide one free of charge.

Regards,

M. Gamble


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Howard Gibson" <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2003 12:27 PM
Subject: Re: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re: [TLUG]: Help With Home Server)


> On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:01:45 -0400
> "Matthew M. Gamble" <tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > --- WARRING - SHAMELESS PLUG ---
> >
> > Well, as the Senior Network Admin for Echo Online (www.eol.ca) I can say
> > (with some bias) that our service is decent and our support usually
knows
> > what they are doing.  On top of that, we just removed our bandwidth caps
> > from DSL.  You can run whatever servers you want, as long you don't run
an
> > open relay :-)
> >
> > --- END SHAMELESS PLUG ---
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > M. Gamble
>
> Matthew,
>
>    Is there any chance of Echo Online bringing its shell server back
online?  You are still advertising this.
>
> -- 
> Howard Gibson
> hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
> howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org
> http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>


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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 05:58:23 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 01:58:23 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <015001c370b6$cffaba20$070010ac-P7qxLNPzLDU@public.gmane.org>
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>
	<041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro>
	<20030901122725.6922ff87.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<015001c370b6$cffaba20$070010ac@pyro>
Message-ID: <20030902015823.437651f9.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:28:16 -0400
"Matthew M. Gamble" <tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I wanted to bring the shell server back online, but it is just too big a
> security risk to run one these days.  Between people using it to run IRC
> bots, send out spam, etc it just became too big a headache.  Anyways, I'll
> try to push it by management again, but don't hold your breath.  You are the
> first person I've even heard mention our old shell service in the past year.
> 
> If you (or anyone on this list, for that matter) really wants / need a shell
> account, talk to me off the list and I'll see what I can do.  I run a few
> co-lo'd Unix boxes and don't mind giving out free services (shell, DNS, web
> hosting, etc).  Perhaps we could setup a tlug shell server?  Also, if anyone
> is looking for a secondary DNS host, I can provide one free of charge.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> M. Gamble

Matthew,

   I liked the shell server because it made web page administration dead easy.  I set it up at home.  I make a gzipped tar file.  I uploaded it using FTP.  I logged in.  I deleted the old website, then I unzipped the new one.  I could make a wildly complicated website.

   I did try hacking back into my computer to test my own security, but I can see why you might not want to allow this.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 15:05:53 2003
From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:05:53 -0500
Subject: Local source for quiet PC's, E-Buddies, mATX, Via C3 etc.
Message-ID: <20030902150553.B6AB578F2D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

Does anyone know a store, preferably in central Toronto, where I can take
a look at small/quiet/hopefully cheap PC's suitable for home servers or
non-gaming home office pcs?

I'm always reading about these things but never see them in stores.
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 15:33:06 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 02 Sep 2003 11:33:06 -0400
Subject: Local source for quiet PC's, E-Buddies, mATX, Via C3
	etc.
In-Reply-To: <20030902150553.B6AB578F2D-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902150553.B6AB578F2D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1062516787.3907.2.camel@yoda>

I've seen them in many of the stores on College, near Spadina.  Canada
Computers <http://canadacomputers.com> had them as bare-bones (i.e.
case, mobo, psu, and cooling) that you could fill in with whichever
components you wanted.  I think OTA had them as well.

Kareem


On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 11:05, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> Does anyone know a store, preferably in central Toronto, where I can take
> a look at small/quiet/hopefully cheap PC's suitable for home servers or
> non-gaming home office pcs?
> 
> I'm always reading about these things but never see them in stores.
> -------------------
> Andrew Malcolmson

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  A man too busy to take care of his health is like a mechanic
  too busy to take care of his tools.
    -- Spanish proverb
 ********************************************************************/

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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 15:44:18 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:44:18 -0400
Subject: WTB Older laptops for Linux
Message-ID: <002a01c37169$142b4270$76cebfd8@viper>

I am looking for an older 486 or P1 computer for Linux.
No CD or fancy stuff is required, as long as the HDD is removeable.
Sound would be nice for MP3 playback, but not a requirement...

reply to 
teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org
















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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 16:23:11 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:23:11 -0400
Subject: Grub Not Starting
In-Reply-To: <ltznhsdp9c.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062171003.11368.10.camel@yoda> <20030829153429.GJ21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <ltznhsdp9c.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <20030902162311.GR21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Aug 29, 2003 at 07:21:03PM -0400, Tim Writer wrote:
> FWIW, on my Inspiron 1100, the hard disk is actually hdc, the CD-ROM is hda.
> Debian suggested this in my lilo.conf:
> 
>     # Overrides the default mapping between harddisk names and the BIOS'
>     # harddisk order. Use with caution.
>     disk=/dev/hdc
>     bios=0x80
> 
> Perhaps Grub has a similar option or maybe you need to use hd1.  Just a
> thought.

Grub just deals with that.  It labels HDs in the order found, so first
HD found is hd0 even if it is hdh.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 16:36:53 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:36:53 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM-Mo3A3Rqcn0o@public.gmane.org>
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>
Message-ID: <20030902163653.GS21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Aug 31, 2003 at 01:55:17PM -0400, Brian K Garel wrote:
> I am looking to stop giving Ted Roger$ all my money and was looking around for a decent service.  I saw Jay mention istop.com and was curious if anyone else has any other suggestions.  I'm up in Newmarket so I should have access to pretty much anything.  Keys here are Price, reliability, and they don't care if you're running servers.....oh yeah....and the support deparment must know something more than how to spell dns!  LOL
> 
> Any suggestions are very much appreciated!

www.torfree.net might interest you.  Not sure whta their reliability s
like, given I don't know anyone using their DSL service yet.  Looks
decent though.

Lennart Sorensen
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 16:50:14 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 12:50:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: WTB Older laptops for Linux
In-Reply-To: <002a01c37169$142b4270$76cebfd8-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <002a01c37169$142b4270$76cebfd8@viper>
Message-ID: <17969.216.138.194.32.1062521414.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I am looking for an older 486 or P1 computer for Linux.
> No CD or fancy stuff is required, as long as the HDD is removeable.
> Sound would be nice for MP3 playback, but not a requirement...
>
> reply to
> teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org

Call me.. i can help

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 18:21:03 2003
From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 13:21:03 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: WTB Older laptops for Linux
In-Reply-To: <17969.216.138.194.32.1062521414.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <17969.216.138.194.32.1062521414.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0309021316330.23998-100000@pixelated>

i like my dell latitude xpi which i got from notebook universe on queen
east... its a p133 32mb ram 1.4gig hd and was like 200bux... setting up
debian and x wasnt too bad (no cdrom so net install) and i got them to
replace the pcmcia modem it came with with a 3c589 modem/nic combo for
no extra charge...


bonnie


On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > I am looking for an older 486 or P1 computer for Linux.
> > No CD or fancy stuff is required, as long as the HDD is removeable.
> > Sound would be nice for MP3 playback, but not a requirement...
> >
> > reply to
> > teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org
>
> Call me.. i can help
>
> --
> Keith Mastin
> BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> Toronto, Canada
> (416)696 6070
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 21:18:14 2003
From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 21:18:14 -0000
Subject: SCO has valid case
Message-ID: <20030902211814.87500.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>

Should have thought of that last year when shares were below $1.
RickT

On Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:13:52 -0400 (EDT), "Keith Mastin" > It would
make good headlines though... linux community to purchase SCO :)
> 
> 

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From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 21:23:14 2003
From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 21:23:14 -0000
Subject: WTB Older laptops for Linux
Message-ID: <20030902212314.88787.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>

Does anyone have a Lindows Mobile PC? I'm interested in real life
reviews for the product. It's currently at
http://www.sub500.com/port.htm for $1049.00CD. At 2.9 pounds it sounds
like a winner. Maybe we'll see it at Canadian Tire soon with the
Lexmark printers?
RickT

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 11:44:18 -0400, "teddymills" <teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org>
wrote :

> I am looking for an older 486 or P1 computer for Linux.
> No CD or fancy stuff is required, as long as the HDD is removeable.
> Sound would be nice for MP3 playback, but not a requirement...
> 
> reply to 
> teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> 
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 21:28:41 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 17:28:41 -0400
Subject: Local source for quiet PC's, E-Buddies, mATX, Via C3 etc.
In-Reply-To: <1062516787.3907.2.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902150553.B6AB578F2D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <1062516787.3907.2.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <200309021728.42617.marc@lijour.net>

Le 2 Septembre 2003 11:33, Kareem Shehata a ?crit :
> I've seen them in many of the stores on College, near Spadina.  Canada
> Computers <http://canadacomputers.com> had them as bare-bones (i.e.
> case, mobo, psu, and cooling) that you could fill in with whichever
> components you wanted.  I think OTA had them as well.
>
> Kareem
>
> On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 11:05, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> > Does anyone know a store, preferably in central Toronto, where I can take
> > a look at small/quiet/hopefully cheap PC's suitable for home servers or
> > non-gaming home office pcs?
> >
> > I'm always reading about these things but never see them in stores.
> > -------------------
> > Andrew Malcolmson

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 22:11:17 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 18:11:17 -0400
Subject: WTB Older laptops for Linux
In-Reply-To: <17969.216.138.194.32.1062521414.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <002a01c37169$142b4270$76cebfd8@viper> <17969.216.138.194.32.1062521414.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F551585.6090600@rogers.com>

>I am looking for an older 486 or P1 computer for Linux.
>No CD or fancy stuff is required, as long as the HDD is removeable.
>Sound would be nice for MP3 playback, but not a requirement...
>
>reply to
>teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org

IBM ThinkPads are generally pretty good.  I used to run Mandrake on a 
760E and currently have an R30, that also works well.  Also, according 
to the IBM site, the 600E is fully supported.


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From rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 22:23:44 2003
From: rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org (Rick Tomaschuk)
Date: 2 Sep 2003 22:23:44 -0000
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
Message-ID: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>

My understanding at a presentation at SCOForum is that Openserver is
SCO's flagship product. Prior products have led up to what is today
called Openserver. Sorry if I've provided "mis-information" but SCO
gave out awards at SCOForum for servers verified (by Emir <g>) to be
up for 5, 10 and 17+ years. I resqect any operating system that can
show those numbers. I guess FreeBSD would also qualify.
RickT

On Sat, 30 Aug 2003 11:58:19 -0400, Dave Stubbs
<dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org> wrote :

> Rick Tomaschuk wrote:
> 
> > While I hate to keep taking SCO's side in things since I fully support
> > the Linux movement I don't think any of SCO's long time customers care
> > wheather or not SCO's web site is up or not since Openserver has some
> > machines with verified uptimes of 5, 10 and 17+ years without reboot.
> > If any machine is repeatedly attacked by professionals it will crash.
> > RickT
> >  
> >
> 
> Interesting!  Especially since Openserver has barely been around for 5
> years, let alone 10 and 17+ years.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 
> 
> 
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From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 22:35:44 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:35:44 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac-P7qxLNPzLDU@public.gmane.org>
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>
	<041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro>
Message-ID: <20030902183544.7d67b510.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On Sun, 31 Aug 2003 14:01:45 -0400
"Matthew M. Gamble" <tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> --- WARRING - SHAMELESS PLUG ---
> 
> Well, as the Senior Network Admin for Echo Online (www.eol.ca) I can say
> (with some bias) that our service is decent and our support usually knows
> what they are doing.  On top of that, we just removed our bandwidth caps
> from DSL.  You can run whatever servers you want, as long you don't run an
> open relay :-)
> 
> --- END SHAMELESS PLUG ---

I've been with them since March. The service has been flawless.

~ C

-- 
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability"
to death--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 23:11:22 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:11:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <20030902222344.3943.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Rick Tomaschuk wrote:

> My understanding at a presentation at SCOForum is that Openserver is
> SCO's flagship product. Prior products have led up to what is today
> called Openserver. Sorry if I've provided "mis-information" but SCO
> gave out awards at SCOForum for servers verified (by Emir <g>) to be
> up for 5, 10 and 17+ years. I resqect any operating system that can
> show those numbers. I guess FreeBSD would also qualify.

The practical limitations are how long the OS has existed, and how long it
has existed without a serious kernel exploit.  FreeBSD emerged from the
404BSD code in, what 1993, so a 10 year uptime _may_ be possible (but it'd
be so ancient it wouldn't be funny) but anything more is simply
impossible.

Others were raising the same issues about OpenServer.

If a given OS had a serious exploit in the kernel say, 3 years ago, which
would require a new kernel and a reboot then I'd say anyone with a system
predating that time better have a good reason why they haven't fixed the
problem and rebooted.

FWIW, everytime I've looked at Netcraft's longest uptime records, every
one of the top 50 boxes has been BSDI or FreeBSD.  I just looked again and
it is still true:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/today/top.avg.html

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 23:14:31 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:14:31 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <20030902183544.7d67b510.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <18625382.1062352520028.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>
	<041401c36fe9$f2020e70$070010ac@pyro>
	<20030902183544.7d67b510.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20030902191431.0a6ef491.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 18:35:44 -0400
"Matthew M. Gamble" <tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> > Well, as the Senior Network Admin for Echo Online (www.eol.ca) I can
> > say(with some bias) that our service is decent and our support
> > usually knows what they are doing.  On top of that, we just removed
> > our bandwidth caps from DSL.  You can run whatever servers you want,
> > as long you don't run an open relay :-)

Looks good, Sympatico is starting to piss me off, they're screwing with
my Sourceforge list mail and all they can say is "we don't support
that..." or "don't you have access to Outhouse Express...?"

I don't get the diff between DSL and PPPoE DSL, other than the greater
bandwidth, how does the regular DSL service connect if it's not PPPoE?

Cheers!

P.S. Why was this list so quiet for so long, now all this traffic?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
Reality is just a convenient measure of complexity.
		-- Alvy Ray Smith
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 23:14:47 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:14:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021914270.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

> The practical limitations are how long the OS has existed, and how long it
> has existed without a serious kernel exploit.  FreeBSD emerged from the
> 404BSD code in, what 1993, so a 10 year uptime _may_ be possible (but it'd

This should real 4.4BSD code.  Duh :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 23:24:47 2003
From: mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Mike Fisher)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:24:47 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list again.
Message-ID: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca>

I started to receive the Tlug list again at about 12.30 pm today after
being blocked, cut off or whatever since the 16th of last month.
Thanks to those who tried to help (John Moniz, Herb etc.).
Unless it's a coincidence a complaint to abuse-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org caused it to
be fixed.
I got the usual robot reply last Thursday , no human follow-up but now
it's working.

regards,
Mike Fisher

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  2 23:26:21 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:26:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <20030902191431.0a6ef491.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902191431.0a6ef491.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902191714.448B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Joe Hill wrote:
> I don't get the diff between DSL and PPPoE DSL, other than the greater
> bandwidth, how does the regular DSL service connect if it's not PPPoE?

It doesn't "connect".  It's there all the time, like an Ethernet.  That's
how DSL actually works.  It never disconnects, so it has no need to
connect.  There is a continuous, always-live path between your DSL modem
and the DSL router at the phone company. 

There is absolutely nothing about DSL that requires an extra layer of
protocols to make it act like a virtual phone call.  PPPoE is largely an
artifact of phone-company stupidity -- it was created by people who simply
could not conceive of a network that didn't act like a telephone system. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From paulmora-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 00:03:32 2003
From: paulmora-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul Mora)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:03:32 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list
	again.
In-Reply-To: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1062547412.19892.1.camel@stimpy.mora.ca>

On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 19:24, Mike Fisher wrote:
> I started to receive the Tlug list again at about 12.30 pm today after
> being blocked, cut off or whatever since the 16th of last month.

Same here.  I haven't received a thing since the blackout.  Today, at
approx. 12:30pm, the list mail started coming in.

I thought maybe I was nuked from the subscriber list, but I was still on
there (tried to re-subscribe and got an error).

Weird.  

But hey, I'm glad to be back.

pm

-- 
Paul Mora <paulmora-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 00:18:51 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:18:51 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list
 again.
In-Reply-To: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030902201851.35fde200.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:24:47 -0400
Mike Fisher <mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I started to receive the Tlug list again at about 12.30 pm today after
> being blocked, cut off or whatever since the 16th of last month.
> Thanks to those who tried to help (John Moniz, Herb etc.).
> Unless it's a coincidence a complaint to abuse-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org caused it
> to be fixed.
> I got the usual robot reply last Thursday , no human follow-up but now
> it's working.

aaaah, that explains it. I thought the list had died off!

Sympatico fuckers! I'm switchin' soon's I get the chance!

-- 
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Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
[Wisdom] is a tree of life to those laying
hold of her, making happy each one holding her fast.
		-- Proverbs 3:18, NSV
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 00:22:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:22:09 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902191714.448B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902191431.0a6ef491.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902191714.448B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20030902202209.0f7e8ab0.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:26:21 -0400 (EDT)
Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> It doesn't "connect".  It's there all the time, like an Ethernet. 
> That's how DSL actually works.  It never disconnects, so it has no
> need to connect.  There is a continuous, always-live path between your
> DSL modem and the DSL router at the phone company. 

Eeeexceellleent!

> There is absolutely nothing about DSL that requires an extra layer of
> protocols to make it act like a virtual phone call.  PPPoE is largely
> an artifact of phone-company stupidity -- it was created by people who
> simply could not conceive of a network that didn't act like a
> telephone system. 

Thanks for the lesson, one more reason to tell those bastages to kiss my
ass.

-- 
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Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
In the next world, you're on your own.
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 00:24:40 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:24:40 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list
 again.
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F5534C8.2090809@sympatico.ca>

Mike Fisher wrote:

>I started to receive the Tlug list again at about 12.30 pm today after
>being blocked, cut off or whatever since the 16th of last month.
>Thanks to those who tried to help (John Moniz, Herb etc.).
>Unless it's a coincidence a complaint to abuse-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org caused it to
>be fixed.
>I got the usual robot reply last Thursday , no human follow-up but now
>it's working.
>
>regards,
>Mike Fisher
>
Looks like we're all back again then. My complaints had reached the 
abuse folks also and there was a customer service gal supposedly pushing 
it too. I've asked her for some info on what fixed it - we'll see if I 
get an answer.

I have to ask though, was anything changed within tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org that might 
have made a difference? Anyone know?

John.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 00:26:45 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:26:45 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list
 again.
In-Reply-To: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F553545.70308@rogers.com>

Mike Fisher wrote:
> I started to receive the Tlug list again at about 12.30 pm today after
> being blocked, cut off or whatever since the 16th of last month.
> Thanks to those who tried to help (John Moniz, Herb etc.).
> Unless it's a coincidence a complaint to abuse-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org caused it to
> be fixed.
> I got the usual robot reply last Thursday , no human follow-up but now
> it's working.
> 
> regards,
> Mike Fisher

I noticed the same thing on Rogers.  I haven't seen a couple of my mail 
lists for a couple of weeks.  They then reappeared at about the same time.


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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 00:31:31 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 20:31:31 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902191714.448B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F553663.9000300@sympatico.ca>

Henry Spencer wrote:

>There is absolutely nothing about DSL that requires an extra layer of
>protocols to make it act like a virtual phone call.  PPPoE is largely an
>artifact of phone-company stupidity -- it was created by people who simply
>could not conceive of a network that didn't act like a telephone system. 
>  
>
Actually, I believe PPPoE was implemented to keep the phone company's 
hands off the IP layer. Your ISP handles all of the IP and the phone 
company just provides the pipe.


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 00:37:44 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 20:37:44 -0400
Subject: Sympatico and Sourceforge Lists
Message-ID: <20030902203744.7ff3612a.joehill@sympatico.ca>


If anyone else on here is using Sympatico and receives list mail from
any of the Sourceforge projects, I'm looking to confirm or deny that
Sympatico's recent implementation of spam-blocking software is messing
with my fetchmail.

All mail from lists.sourceforge.net is left on the POP server, fetchmail
will not retrieve it, even with fetchmail -a I get this error:

 .fetchmail: incorrect header line found while scanning headers
.fetchmail: incorrect header line found while scanning headers
fetchmail: incorrect header line found while scanning headers
fetchmail: incorrect header line found while scanning headers
...fetchmail:  retained

and I believe it is because of this, added to the header by
spamassassin:

X-Spam-Score: -4.5 (----)
X-Spam-Report: -4.5/5.0
	The original message has been attached along with this report, so
	you can recognize or block similar mail in future.
	See: //spamassassin.org/tag/ for more details.

but it is *only* added to mail from lists.sourceforge.net, *and* I have
gone to the Sympatico site (which you can only access with Internet
Exploder, I might add) and disabled the filtering. This tag is added to
none of the other mail I receive through Sympatico, so far as I can
tell.

Any ideas? This is driving me nuts!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
God is the tangential point between zero and infinity.
		-- Alfred Jarry
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 01:15:59 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:15:59 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <3F4A8433.6020908-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <20030902211559.2135aa00.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Mon, 25 Aug 2003 17:48:35 -0400
Dave Stubbs <dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> Finally, would it be possible to get concerned Linux users together to 
> buy SCO?  Or at least to buy the scraps if they folded up?  Maybe then 
> we could officially bequeath UNIX to the public domain...
> 
> If each angry concerned Linux user out there put $100 into this cause, 
> could we do it?
> 
> Dave...

Dave,

   Isn't the whole point of this exercise that the stock price of SCO is not high enough?  If all Linux users band together and make an offer, the price soars even higher, the SCO executives sell out, and walk away rich.  

   What we want is for the SCO stock not to sell.  When the legal bills start coming in, SCO can default.  Getting sued by trail lawyers has got to be a nightmare!

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 01:10:58 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:10:58 -0400
Subject: ss.org dns (or one reason why tlug emails bounce)
Message-ID: <200309022110.58630.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

I tried contacting drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org regarding dns problems with the ss.org domain 
but haven't had a response yet so I thought I'd try here in case anyone knows 
the correct contact ...

You may see my original email below but to summarise:

- ss.org has 5 nameservers, ns.ss.org appears to be the master but none of the
  slaves have the latest zone file and one of the slaves isn't working at all

- ns.ss.org is listed as a relay for ss.org in the older zone file (served by
  3/4 of the nameservers) ... if lethe.ss.org is ever down then most (well
  3/4) of the email to tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org will bounce rather than remaining queued

- ns.ss.org is listed as a relay for tlug.ss.org in old and new zone files.
  If lethe.ss.org is down all email sent to tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org will bounce
  (although not many people appear to use that address)

I believe that sympatico.ca mailservers also have their own problems but the 
ss.org dns situation is pretty pitiful so there's little hope for Sympatico 
or any other ISP working with ss.org in the event of the slightest problem 
with lethe.ss.org.

If anyone who has control of the ss.org domain can correct this situation I 
think we can make tlug a happier place ;-)

Thanks

----------  Forwarded Message  ----------

Subject: ss.org dns
Date: Sunday 31 August 2003 10:34
From: Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
To: drew-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

Hi Drew,

Your domain ss.org has these nameservers:

	ss.org name server NS3.ETS.NET.
	ss.org name server KINGSTON.ETS.NET.
	ss.org name server NS.ETS.NET.
	ss.org name server NS.ss.org.
	ss.org name server NS2.ETS.NET.

Of these ns.ss.org appears to have the latest zone file (serial 20030605), 3
others have an older zone (serial 20030201) and one (KINGSTON.ETS.NET) does
not respond at all.

The mx records for tlug.ss.org are:

	tlug.ss.org mail is handled by 5 ns.ss.org.
	tlug.ss.org mail is handled by 1 lethe.ss.org.

However ns.ss.org does not relay mail for either tlug.ss.org or ss.org.  If
lethe is down or slow to respond then email bounces rather than remaining
queued (since ns.ss.org rejects the email).

This problem also exists for ss.org since 3/4 of your working nameservers are
out of date and contain a secondary mx of ns.ss.org which will be bouncing
your email rather than queuing it.

Just thought I'd pass this along in case you weren't aware of it.

Regards,
--
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

-------------------------------------------------------

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 01:22:54 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 02 Sep 2003 21:22:54 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <20030902211559.2135aa00.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
	<20030902211559.2135aa00.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <lvllt6vf69.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> writes:
>    What we want is for the SCO stock not to sell.  When the legal bills start
> coming in, SCO can default.  Getting sued by trail lawyers has got to be a
> nightmare!

Then we take our money and start shorting the hell out the stock.  This way
we make the money off of the stock.
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 01:42:23 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:42:23 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <lvllt6vf69.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
	<20030902211559.2135aa00.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<lvllt6vf69.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <20030902214223.7694ec38.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On 02 Sep 2003 21:22:54 -0400
Matthew Rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Then we take our money and start shorting the hell out the stock. 
> This way we make the money off of the stock.

We don't need to do anything, they've dug they're own grave.

Besides, we want to be the good guys, right? Play by the rules,
honourably and fairly, and *win*.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth?
		-- Patrick Sky
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 02:06:01 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:06:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <3F553663.9000300-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F553663.9000300@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902215848.2352B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Moniz wrote:
> >There is absolutely nothing about DSL that requires an extra layer of
> >protocols to make it act like a virtual phone call...
>
> Actually, I believe PPPoE was implemented to keep the phone company's 
> hands off the IP layer. Your ISP handles all of the IP and the phone 
> company just provides the pipe.

That doesn't require PPPoE.  When the phone company sets up DSL service on
your line, they tell their box "anything that comes out of this wire, send
it to *that* ISP, he knows what to do with it".  Similarly, the ISP has a
way to send them stuff earmarked to go into your wire.  No IP-level
involvement by the phone company is required; IP addressing on your wire
is a matter between you and your ISP. 

(The IP addresses on either end of *my* DSL link are non-routable, from
one of the private-address blocks.  They were picked by my ISP in
consultation with me, for our mutual convenience; the phone company was
not involved in the discussion.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 02:16:39 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:16:39 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902215848.2352B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F553663.9000300@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902215848.2352B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20030902221639.10762825.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:06:01 -0400 (EDT)
Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> (The IP addresses on either end of *my* DSL link are non-routable,
> from one of the private-address blocks.  They were picked by my ISP in
> consultation with me, for our mutual convenience; the phone company
> was not involved in the discussion.)

This is something that interests me, because I did get ahold of my own
domain, but often if I try to send mail from that domain it gets
bounced, I assume because the bouncer links my domain with a block of
IPs that belong to "consumer" ISP peeps like me, and are therefore
suspect or not to be trusted somehow. I would very much like to ditch my
ISP's mail service and run my own, but I never know when I'm going to
get bounced...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing is as simple as it seems at first
	Or as hopeless as it seems in the middle
		Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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From m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 02:47:49 2003
From: m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (M Cahill)
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 22:47:49 -0400
Subject: I'm back
Message-ID: <200309022247.49945.m-cahill@rogers.com>


Well, the cyber-lords at Rogers have allowed me into the list 
again...nice to everyone is still posting well :)

-- 
Matt Cahill            m dash cahill at rogers dot com
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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 03:06:50 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 23:06:50 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Rick Tomaschuk wrote:

>>SCO
>>gave out awards at SCOForum for servers verified (by Emir <g>) to be
>>up for 5, 10 and 17+ years.
>>

I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power failure 
since 1986? Not a web server!

It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so 
important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose 
it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.

Tom

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From mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 04:01:12 2003
From: mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 00:01:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F555ACA.5090900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030903040112.7252.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>

> >>SCO
> >>gave out awards at SCOForum for servers verified (by Emir <g>) to
> be
> >>up for 5, 10 and 17+ years.
> >>
> 
> I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power
> failure 
> since 1986? Not a web server!
> 
> It must be something important enough to continue running, but not
> so 
> important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I
> suppose 
> it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.

And what is the MTBF on hard drives from 17 years ago? Okay, a drive
made in 1985 would have been at most what? 20 MB? (Okay maybe it was
an enterprise server running some database so it had a 800 MB drive.
Apparently in the mid 90s U of T still had a 800 MB drive from that
period, whenever they fired it up it sounded like a jet engine at
takeoff.) While the drive is still in there running the predecessor
to that great and wonderful SCO OS, it has not had an OS upgrade, it
still runs without any major kernel patch, works... oh I know it's
hot-swappable, after all RAID was invented in what 1983?

You know this sounds more like science fiction or some project on
computer history, conceive a machine that would continue to work for
17 years without fail. There was a machine once, I think it was
called the Tandem Guardian (sorry this is before my time so the
spelling is probably wrong) it had hot-swappable everything, even
CPUs, there were at least two chips in each machine, running in lock
step to ensure that if one failed the system could keep running. Then
the first year of operations, daylight savings rolled around, there
was a bug in the OS and the machines crashed starting in the far East
and time-zone by time-zone every single Guardian crashed everywhere.

I know I am young, but frankly I just don't see how a machine could
last 17 years without some serious work on the hardware. (To say
nothing of kernel patches... Oh I know, have a box, leave it in a
corner, plug it into a diesel generator and don't plug it into any
network, leave it alone forever.)

I hate to be definitive, but Rick stop bragging about SCO, they make
(made) a shoddy product, their bread and butter (more like their
water and bread as it keeps them alive but barely) has (on more than
one occasion) been civil action, citing violation of IP. The fact
that they became Caldera and then SCO again seems ironic, the company
is gone, but the spirit (and the name) lives on. They have an
exceedingly weak case according to the legal opinions I have seen, I
worked in the Ministry of the Attorney General. Frankly the only
company I can think of that has more despicable practises in the
computer industry is M$, when SCO finally goes bankrupt and Sontag is
charged with harassment and put where he belongs (in a Federal Pen -
yes what he is doing is worthy of criminal prosecution) I'll be a lot
happier.

Michael

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 04:24:44 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:24:44 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <20030903040112.7252.qmail-1z9btdrhxG2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030903040112.7252.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F556D0C.2050600@sympatico.ca>


>I know I am young, but frankly I just don't see how a machine could
>last 17 years without some serious work on the hardware. (To say
>nothing of kernel patches... Oh I know, have a box, leave it in a
>corner, plug it into a diesel generator and don't plug it into any
>network, leave it alone forever.)
>

To say nothing of:
(a) MTBPF (Mean Time between Power failures)
(b) MTBBBF (Mean Time between Battery Backup Unit failures)

How does one make a UPS Lead Acid battery that can last 17 years without 
changing it out? Did they have hot-swappable dual power supplies with 
separate UPS's on the IBM 80286 AT boxen they installed SCO Unix on 17 
years ago?

Warren



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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 04:41:51 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 00:41:51 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: Message from Warren Postma <warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 24:44 EDT." <3F556D0C.2050600-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20030903040112.7252.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>  <3F556D0C.2050600@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030903044152.4383A69782@cbbrowne.com>

Warren wrote:
> >I know I am young, but frankly I just don't see how a machine could
> >last 17 years without some serious work on the hardware. (To say
> >nothing of kernel patches... Oh I know, have a box, leave it in a
> >corner, plug it into a diesel generator and don't plug it into any
> >network, leave it alone forever.)
> >
> 
> To say nothing of:
> (a) MTBPF (Mean Time between Power failures)
> (b) MTBBBF (Mean Time between Battery Backup Unit failures)
> 
> How does one make a UPS Lead Acid battery that can last 17 years without 
> changing it out? Did they have hot-swappable dual power supplies with 
> separate UPS's on the IBM 80286 AT boxen they installed SCO Unix on 17 
> years ago?

That part is not _too_ hard...

You have three power supplies, each attached to its own UPS.

Having disk drives and fans last would be the _real_ problem.  We just
got a Dell server in at work that shows the way on the fan side of it;
it has two pullout slides that each contain three fans.  If a fan
"blows" (well, _stops_ blowing...), you can slide the array of fans out
and replace the offending one.

Not that this helps with Xenix on a truly ancient 286...
--
If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
http://cbbrowne.com/info/spiritual.html
"In man-machine symbiosis, it is man who must adjust: The machines
can't." -- Alan Perlis
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From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 06:49:58 2003
From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 02:49:58 -0400
Subject: ISP Suggestions...(was Re: Re:Help With Home Server)
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030902215848.2352B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <05c801c371e7$97eb2520$070010ac@pyro>

> On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Moniz wrote:
> > >There is absolutely nothing about DSL that requires an extra layer of
> > >protocols to make it act like a virtual phone call...
> >
> > Actually, I believe PPPoE was implemented to keep the phone company's
> > hands off the IP layer. Your ISP handles all of the IP and the phone
> > company just provides the pipe.
>
> That doesn't require PPPoE.  When the phone company sets up DSL service on
> your line, they tell their box "anything that comes out of this wire, send
> it to *that* ISP, he knows what to do with it".  Similarly, the ISP has a
> way to send them stuff earmarked to go into your wire.  No IP-level
> involvement by the phone company is required; IP addressing on your wire
> is a matter between you and your ISP.
>
> (The IP addresses on either end of *my* DSL link are non-routable, from
> one of the private-address blocks.  They were picked by my ISP in
> consultation with me, for our mutual convenience; the phone company was
> not involved in the discussion.)
>
>                                                           Henry Spencer
>                                                        henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org
>

Henry,

Just a small correction - PPPoE connects you to the Bell ATM network cloud.
>From there, you can (in theory) connect to *ANY* ISP that supports your
region.  For example, you could be an Echo DSL customer and connect to the
sympatico DSL service (it works, I've tried it) provided you have a valid
login id for sympatico.  PPPoE is used to create the 'on-demand' link from
your modem to the ISP (determined by the realm in your login id) via L2TP
tunnels.  Bells motivation for PPPoE was simple - its easier to configure
than VLAN (see below) and it allows the easy creation of different service
profiles within the same network (all based upon realmed usernames).

In the case of 3Meg VLAN DSL, it's still over the Bell ATM network, but is
done using 802.11q VLAN routing.  In this case, you are correct that you are
tied to a specific ISP, as Bell will route your VLAN id to your ISP.  This
is an actual ethernet connection, and you don't require any special software
or routers to connect.  Due to it's ethernet nature, it also becomes much
easier to assign /30 or /29 netblocks to 3Meg VLAN customers.

I hope this helps clear up some of the confusion about the difference
between PPPoE and VLAN DSL.  There are a few technical points I've left out,
but the basics are all correct.

Regards,

M. Gamble


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 10:38:11 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 06:38:11 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list again.
In-Reply-To: <3F5534C8.2090809-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca> <3F5534C8.2090809@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200309030638.11663.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 02 September 2003 20:24, Moniz wrote:

> I have to ask though, was anything changed within tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org that might
> have made a difference? Anyone know?

At least one thing has changed, ss.org dns is now synchronized between the 
master (ns.ss.org) and the 3 other working nameservers for the domain.  This 
means that ss.org email will not bounce when lethe.ss.org is unreachable.

There is still this problem:

    fraser at somewhere% host -t mx tlug.ss.org                                          
    tlug.ss.org mail is handled by 1 lethe.ss.org.
    tlug.ss.org mail is handled by 5 ns.ss.org.

    fraser at somewhere% telnet ns.ss.org 25                                          
    Trying 204.225.177.1...
    Connected to ns.ss.org.
    Escape character is '^]'.
    220 diamond.ss.org ESMTP Postfix
    helo starnix.com
    250 diamond.ss.org
    mail from: <fraser-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
    250 Ok
    rcpt to: <tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org>
    554 <tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org>: Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied

If lethe.ss.org goes down all email sent to tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org will bounce.  It 
appears that not many people use the tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org address though, most 
use tlug-jmbJ75VLJBo at public.gmane.org

I believe that there are other problems:

- there may be communication problems with ss.org and the rest of the Internet
  (perhaps just with Sympatico).  Someone a few weeks ago suggested it might
  be a PMTU problem, who knows.
- Sympatico doesn't send all bounce messages.  I have no proof of this but I
  know a lot of my tlug posted didn't show up before and were never bounced
  back to me, a few did bounce back to me.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 14:11:46 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 10:11:46 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <20030902214223.7694ec38.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
	<20030902211559.2135aa00.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<lvllt6vf69.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
	<20030902214223.7694ec38.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Joe Hill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> writes:
> > Then we take our money and start shorting the hell out the stock. 
> > This way we make the money off of the stock.
> 
> Besides, we want to be the good guys, right? Play by the rules,
> honourably and fairly, and *win*.

There's nothing unfair about shorting a stock.
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 14:12:17 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:12:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F555ACA.5090900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903101113.9697B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Tom Legrady wrote:
> It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so 
> important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose 
> it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.

Small nit:  there's no such thing as 1Mbit coax Ethernet.  The lowest
speed that commercially-marketed Ethernet ever came in was 10Mbit.
(Although the early experimental Ethernet within Xerox ran at 3Mbit.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 14:22:22 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 10:22:22 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list again.
In-Reply-To: <200309030638.11663.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca> <3F5534C8.2090809@sympatico.ca>
	<200309030638.11663.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <lv3cfegdep.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> writes:
>     fraser at somewhere% host -t mx tlug.ss.org                                          
>     tlug.ss.org mail is handled by 1 lethe.ss.org.
>     tlug.ss.org mail is handled by 5 ns.ss.org.

We don't send e-mail to tlug.ss.org, though.  It's just tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org


> If lethe.ss.org goes down all email sent to tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org will bounce.  It 
> appears that not many people use the tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org address though, most 
> use tlug-jmbJ75VLJBo at public.gmane.org

I don't think that anyone should be using tlug-HcP7FbCj2GGbup2nOX2J7Q at public.gmane.org

Is anyone doing that?
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 14:30:30 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:30:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <20030903040112.7252.qmail-1z9btdrhxG2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030903040112.7252.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903101245.9697C-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Michael wrote:
> And what is the MTBF on hard drives from 17 years ago? Okay, a drive
> made in 1985 would have been at most what? 20 MB? (Okay maybe it was
> an enterprise server running some database so it had a 800 MB drive...

Fujitsu Eagles (about 400MB formatted capacity), circa 1983, were bulky
and ate a lot of power, but seemed to have a near-infinite MTBF.  Many of
them were retired, still running just fine, a decade or more later because
people needed more capacity or less bulk or a more modern interface. 
Their reliability was legendary.  There was a time when you could walk
through a Unix trade show, and see disk drives whose front panels were
various colors with various labels, but all had the same distinctive shape
because they were all Fujitsu Eagles inside.  People who could afford
them, had them; people who couldn't, coveted them. 

(Fujitsu unfortunately never quite equaled that level of quality again. 
The immediate follow-on, the Super Eagle, was a disaster.  Later Fujitsu
drives were merely ordinary.)

If the drives were Eagles, I could believe 17 years of nonstop operation.
Not that I have any great faith in this particular claim, mind you, but
with the right hardware it's not a *technical* impossibility.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From agtnews-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 14:33:08 2003
From: agtnews-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Allen)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:33:08 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list again.
In-Reply-To: <1062547412.19892.1.camel-iZZPs9VQPXcqFv4aMVwAvg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca> <1062547412.19892.1.camel@stimpy.mora.ca>
Message-ID: <20030903143308.GA517@free.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 08:03:32PM -0400, Paul Mora wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 19:24, Mike Fisher wrote:
> > I started to receive the Tlug list again at about 12.30 pm today after
> > being blocked, cut off or whatever since the 16th of last month.
> 
> Same here.  I haven't received a thing since the blackout.  Today, at
> approx. 12:30pm, the list mail started coming in.
> 
> I thought maybe I was nuked from the subscriber list, but I was still on
> there (tried to re-subscribe and got an error).
> 
> Weird.  
> 
> But hey, I'm glad to be back.

I'm with Rogers. The list has been dead since July 21st and, like the others
have noted, it suddenly came back on yesterday. Good to see it back!

I re-subsribed in early Aug but the list server told me that I was 
already subscribed. I tried again Monday but all mail to tlug.ss.org was
returned as: 
   "tlug.ss.org>: Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied"

I'm glad someone fixed something. Be nice to know what was really fixed.

Technology, thy name is frustration.

Allen
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 14:39:50 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 10:39:50 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903101245.9697C-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903101245.9697C-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <lvoey2ey15.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> writes:
> (Fujitsu unfortunately never quite equaled that level of quality again. 
> The immediate follow-on, the Super Eagle, was a disaster.  Later Fujitsu
> drives were merely ordinary.)

And the fujitsu's that we bought just before they stopped making were
recalled because the controllers were overheating.  I think that we've
returned 20+ of them now.
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 14:48:31 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 10:48:31 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <lv7k4qgdwd.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<26393.216.138.194.32.1061742337.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F4A8433.6020908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
	<20030902211559.2135aa00.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<lvllt6vf69.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
	<20030902214223.7694ec38.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On 03 Sep 2003 10:11:46 -0400
Matthew Rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> There's nothing unfair about shorting a stock.

Welllll, you have to admit the intention is not exactly honourable.

Hey, listen, I'd like to kick McBride right in the nuts myself, so don't
get me wrong!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
You can never tell which way the train went by looking at the tracks.
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From zhunt-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:12:04 2003
From: zhunt-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Zoltan)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:12:04 -0500
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
References: <20030903040112.7252.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>  <3F556D0C.2050600@sympatico.ca>  <20030903044152.4383A69782@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <006e01c3723e$7fa4ee40$ce0ee540@D2XGQ811>

Maybe not relevant here, but some of the newer PowerPC machines don't need a
fan (though on the higher-speed models, it's recommended).

Some of the boards like the AmigaOne/Mai are in the $1150 (Can.) range for a
G3 board w/256M and $1300 for a G4.
While that's not cheap by PC standards, they do run a lot quieter, cooler
use less power.

for more info see:
http://amigaone-linux.sourceforge.net/

...and running Linux:
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=13&362 (forum)
http://amigaworld.net/modules/features/index.php?op=r&cat_id=2&rev_id=35&sort_by
http://www3.telus.net/NeRP/amigaone.html


Zoltan
www.zee4.com


----- Original Message ----- 
From: <cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org>
Cc: <cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 11:41 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead


> Having disk drives and fans last would be the _real_ problem.  We just
> got a Dell server in at work that shows the way on the fan side of it;
> it has two pullout slides that each contain three fans.  If a fan
> "blows" (well, _stops_ blowing...), you can slide the array of fans out
> and replace the offending one.
>
> Not that this helps with Xenix on a truly ancient 286...


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From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 16:15:06 2003
From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 11:15:06 -0500
Subject: Lycoris [Was: Windows refund: stymied]
In-Reply-To: <20030901142941.66448.qmail-fSq+MfIEYvED+VeP4Ct4bw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030901142941.66448.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
Message-ID: <20030903161506.6FB2A7803D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

On 1 Sep 2003 14:29:41 -0000, "Rick Tomaschuk" <rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org>
said:
> Wal-Mart's web site http://www.walmart.com is selling Desktop PCs
> (Microtel) with SuSE Linux preloaded. Also Lycoris and Lindows. They
> currently offer a Notebook PC with Windows but I'm sure this will
> change if they receive enough requests for Linux preloaded given their
> critical mass in the business community.
> RickT

I read somewhere that Lycoris is close to releaing a new version, the
first in over a year.

I've never tried it but looks like a RPM-based Lindows.  One slick
feature that I think would be impressive to newbies is a categorized list
of applications you can install from the 'Web Services' section of their
website. 

http://www.lycoris.com/webservices/iris/

>From a newbie POV, this has got to have a big advantage of simplicity and
ease of use.  You can browse from a nice looking list of packages with
descriptions, and install whatever you want with a mouse click.  You
don't have to run any special programs - it's all browser-based.

Xandros's Mozilla based 'Xandros Networks' installer/ package manager is
similar to this (though really slow).

I'm always looking for ways to impress newbies (other than by booting
Knoppix) so I wonder if anyone agrees that this is a feature to look for
in a newbie-friendly distro.
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 16:21:00 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 12:21:00 -0400
Subject: WTB Older laptops for Linux
In-Reply-To: <002a01c37169$142b4270$76cebfd8-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <002a01c37169$142b4270$76cebfd8@viper>
Message-ID: <1062606060.7080.88.camel@yoda>

On Tue, 2003-09-02 at 11:44, teddymills wrote:
> I am looking for an older 486 or P1 computer for Linux.
> No CD or fancy stuff is required, as long as the HDD is removeable.
> Sound would be nice for MP3 playback, but not a requirement...
> 
> reply to 
> teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org

I've had a lot of success with old Toshiba's and debian myself.  I may
actually have a Tecra 540CDT (13" screen and cdrom, but no floppy)
around if you're interested.

Kareem

-- 
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      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
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  fly by.
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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 16:59:09 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C.Russell)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 12:59:09 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
Message-ID: <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>

I want to share my dsl connection wirelessly with an AirPort-equipped eMac. Are the Linksys, D-Link and SMC 802.11b offerings much of a muchness, or are there ones to avoid? Any particular easy to admin from a Linux box?

I don't need any faster than 11b, as that's all the eMac will do.

thanks,
 Stewart


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From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:08:41 2003
From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:08:41 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
References: <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>
Message-ID: <20e001c3723e$06711940$0702a8c0@echoonline.echoon.net>

If you can find a Prism based card (like the DLink DWL-520 NON-PLUS) you can
run the HostAP Linux drivers and run your own access point.  The HostAP
homepage is http://hostap.epitest.fi/

I've got this running at home and in the office with a variety of machines
attached and surfing fine.  Making your own wireless router gives far more
power and flexibility than any of the 'off the shelf' solution.

Regards,

M. Gamble

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stewart C.Russell" <scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 12:59 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: wireless/broadband router recommendations?


> I want to share my dsl connection wirelessly with an AirPort-equipped
eMac. Are the Linksys, D-Link and SMC 802.11b offerings much of a muchness,
or are there ones to avoid? Any particular easy to admin from a Linux box?
>
> I don't need any faster than 11b, as that's all the eMac will do.
>
> thanks,
>  Stewart
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:14:13 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 03 Sep 2003 13:14:13 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net-+p+fmPhZGT9wYM0HuYUmSQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>
Message-ID: <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 12:59, Stewart C.Russell wrote:
> I want to share my dsl connection wirelessly with an AirPort-equipped eMac. Are the Linksys, D-Link and SMC 802.11b offerings much of a muchness, or are there ones to avoid? Any particular easy to admin from a Linux box?
> 
> I don't need any faster than 11b, as that's all the eMac will do.
> 
> thanks,
>  Stewart


I've had great success with a Linksys box, but then again I'm using a
Linksys card, and never tried it with a mac.  I've done all of the
configuration through the web interface, and pretty much tossed the CD's
unused into the trash (or my pack of unused install crap which is the
same thing).

Kareem

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/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they
  fly by.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:19:13 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:19:13 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list again.
In-Reply-To: <lv3cfegdep.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca> <200309030638.11663.fraser@wehave.net> <lv3cfegdep.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <200309031319.13113.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:22, Matthew Rice wrote:
> > If lethe.ss.org goes down all email sent to tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org will bounce.
> >  It appears that not many people use the tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org address though,
> > most use tlug-jmbJ75VLJBo at public.gmane.org
>
> I don't think that anyone should be using tlug-HcP7FbCj2GGbup2nOX2J7Q at public.gmane.org

According to http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml and 
http://tlug.linux.ca/subscribe.shtml the subscription addresses at least are 
@tlug.ss.org ... still among list subscribers I don't see that version of the 
address being used.
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:22:19 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:22:19 -0400
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list again.
In-Reply-To: <20030903143308.GA517-xjkgpJ8x/6KUfJ84TJ0GRf5qpz7Ab6H3xab8h3VT454AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca> <1062547412.19892.1.camel@stimpy.mora.ca> <20030903143308.GA517@free.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200309031322.19910.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:33, Allen wrote:

> I re-subsribed in early Aug but the list server told me that I was
> already subscribed. I tried again Monday but all mail to tlug.ss.org was
> returned as:
>    "tlug.ss.org>: Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied"

If you send email to tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org there is still a good chance for it to 
bounce as you saw.  This is because there is a secondary MX listed for 
tlug.ss.org that does not accept relaying:

    tlug.ss.org             MX      1 lethe.ss.org
    tlug.ss.org             MX      5 ns.ss.org

Tested  right now ...

    fraser at venus% telnet ns.ss.org 25                                             
    Trying 204.225.177.1...
    Connected to ns.ss.org.
    Escape character is '^]'.
    220 diamond.ss.org ESMTP Postfix
    helo starnix.com
    250 diamond.ss.org
    mail from: <fraser-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
    250 Ok
    rcpt to: <tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org>
    554 <tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org>: Recipient address rejected: Relay access denied

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:41:43 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:41:43 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com> <20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200309031341.43419.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 03 September 2003 10:48, Joe Hill wrote:

> > There's nothing unfair about shorting a stock.
>
> Welllll, you have to admit the intention is not exactly honourable.

The stock market is a game that you can win by betting on winners or losers.  
There's nothing dishonourable about betting on a loser, IMO.

So Matt, do you think it's still to early to start shorting SCO ;-)

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:54:01 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:54:01 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <200309031341.43419.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
	<20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200309031341.43419.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030903135401.1aec9699.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:41:43 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> The stock market is a game that you can win by betting on winners or
> losers.  There's nothing dishonourable about betting on a loser, IMO.

Point taken, :-)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
You can get *anywhere* in ten minutes if you drive fast enough.
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:45:18 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:45:18 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F556D0C.2050600-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030903040112.7252.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
 <3F556D0C.2050600@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309032036550.568@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


I'm not sure about this uptime thing since I am a hardware guy and I know
several 'embedded' computers that have uptimes in the 5+ years. The
nearest ones are probably in your local telco exchange. These do have
total backup (battery + diesel) and they are never switched off. Really
never. Only direct lightning strikes and such will stop them (but not
completely as there is often failover etc). Do not mistake 'embedded' with
a small board full of parts that fits in your palm. These are rack-filling
machines that handle everything from switching and voice services to
billing and run fault-finding programs for technicians when the need
arises.

There are more examples like this in industry. I heard that PDP clones
still run some plants in more remote areas. Most of them are diskless
(apropos disk mtbf) and have backup systems that are designed to keep e.g.
refineries from blowing up or ore smelting furnaces from becoming giant
anthills. You can trust their backup systems to be good. No, they are not
web servers. Sorry about that.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 17:57:34 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 20:57:34 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list
 again.
In-Reply-To: <lv3cfegdep.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca> <3F5534C8.2090809@sympatico.ca>
 <200309030638.11663.fraser@wehave.net> <lv3cfegdep.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309032055400.568@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Matthew Rice wrote:

> I don't think that anyone should be using tlug-HcP7FbCj2GGbup2nOX2J7Q at public.gmane.org
>
> Is anyone doing that?

At the last wave of delivery problems I pointed my transport map for
*.ss.org to 206.108.5.1 (by address!) and stopped having problems. Yes I
know I should not be doing that. But neither should mail get bounced
randomly. And it works.

So much for dns (in general).

Peter


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From brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 18:24:02 2003
From: brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Brian K Garel)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 14:24:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Email Problem?
Message-ID: <672731.1062613442973.JavaMail.SYSTEM@rojan>

Hey,

Is anyone else getting every email repeated to them 2 sometimes 3 sometimes 4 times?  This is making for a very active inbox!  :-)

If this has been covered earlier I appologize but I've just been mass deleting for the last day or two!  :-)

Cheers,

Brian K. Garel
brian-hkt3R1SlsOrYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid, than to open it and remove all doubt."
                                  -Mark Twain

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This message was sent using DeskNow Lite - Free mail & collaboration server
http://www.desknow.com


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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 18:53:01 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:53:01 -0400
Subject: vmware (Linux host)
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030903144501.009e3150@pop1.sympatico.ca>

My PC (AMD K6) will not handle v. 4. Apparently v.3 would be OK: It (3.2.1 
downloaded  from their site) installed, but I cannot start it because I 
cannot get a key from them, apparently on any terms.Help or available copy?

Thanks ...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 19:11:57 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:11:57 -0400
Subject: Lycoris [Was: Windows refund: stymied]
In-Reply-To: <20030903161506.6FB2A7803D-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030901142941.66448.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <20030903161506.6FB2A7803D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <3F563CFD.3040600@truxtar.com>

I think Synaptic (the front end for apt-get) is a perfect tool for 
newbies. It gives you categorised lists of packages and allows you to 
update all your packages with the click of a button.  It doesn't allow 
you to break any dependencies, and can fix them if necessary.  I think 
it's far better than Redhat Network, and it's completely free.  It also 
doesn't depend on a particular distribution as long as it uses RPMs or DEBs.


---

Anton


---


Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> On 1 Sep 2003 14:29:41 -0000, "Rick Tomaschuk" <rickl-ZACYGPecefkNbK0NzMECUg at public.gmane.org>
> said:
> 
>>Wal-Mart's web site http://www.walmart.com is selling Desktop PCs
>>(Microtel) with SuSE Linux preloaded. Also Lycoris and Lindows. They
>>currently offer a Notebook PC with Windows but I'm sure this will
>>change if they receive enough requests for Linux preloaded given their
>>critical mass in the business community.
>>RickT
> 
> 
> I read somewhere that Lycoris is close to releaing a new version, the
> first in over a year.
> 
> I've never tried it but looks like a RPM-based Lindows.  One slick
> feature that I think would be impressive to newbies is a categorized list
> of applications you can install from the 'Web Services' section of their
> website. 
> 
> http://www.lycoris.com/webservices/iris/
> 
> From a newbie POV, this has got to have a big advantage of simplicity and
> ease of use.  You can browse from a nice looking list of packages with
> descriptions, and install whatever you want with a mouse click.  You
> don't have to run any special programs - it's all browser-based.
> 
> Xandros's Mozilla based 'Xandros Networks' installer/ package manager is
> similar to this (though really slow).
> 
> I'm always looking for ways to impress newbies (other than by booting
> Knoppix) so I wonder if anyone agrees that this is a feature to look for
> in a newbie-friendly distro.
> -------------------
> Andrew Malcolmson
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 19:29:44 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:29:44 -0400
Subject: OpenPGP e-mail signing/encryption question
Message-ID: <3F564128.8000508@truxtar.com>

Hello everyone,

A couple of nights ago I decided to look into how to sign/encrypt 
e-mails.  I figured out the Enigmail stuff, and got it installed and 
working fine with Mozilla Thunderbird (a great e-mail reader by the 
way).  I just have two questions:

Should I use the same key for encrypting and signing messages, or am I 
suppose to generate different ones for each purpose?  From what I 
understand (this is my first time looking into this issue) I give out my 
public key in order to receive encrypted messages.  However, I have to 
give out my private key in order to sign messages or something. This 
doesn't make sense to me (why give out both keys), so either I am wrong, 
or I don't know something.  Any clarification would be appreciated.

Also, which key server should I use to share my key? Should I upload it 
to several, or are they all synchronized like DNS servers?  Lastly, is 
it possible to change the key once it is sent (or at least the comment)?


I know this is a little off the Linux topic, but any help would be 
appreciated.

P.S. PGP is so much easier to set up in Linux vs. Windows!

Thanks in advance,


Anton

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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 19:46:12 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:46:12 -0400
Subject: Microsoft running Linux?!?
Message-ID: <3F564504.8070107@truxtar.com>

I was just looking at Netcraft's "What's That Site Running" pages.  I 
looked up Microsoft, and it says they run an ISS on a Linux box. 
According to their FAQ, this indicates a Proxy server or a load 
balancer, but that still means Microsoft is using Linux routers!  Can 
someone explain this?  Is this all just an error at Netcraft?

The address is:

http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.microsoft.com


---

Anton

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From john-+ZXfrt0R0RTkQYj/0HfcvtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 18:47:26 2003
From: john-+ZXfrt0R0RTkQYj/0HfcvtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org (John Jeffers)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:47:26 -0400
Subject: Microsoft running Linux?!?
In-Reply-To: <3F564504.8070107-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564504.8070107@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030903144535.02547ea0@pop3.norton.antivirus>


>  but that still means Microsoft is using Linux routers!  Can someone 
> explain this?  Is this all just an error at Netcraft?
I have made embedded Linux routers.  The whole thing was 4x6" running on a 
wall wart.

Microsoft might not know they have them.

Cheers John

---------------------------------------------
email: john-+ZXfrt0R0RTkQYj/0HfcvtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org
---------------------------------------------
John Jeffers P. Eng.
J-Microsystems US LLC
A Division of Wade and Associates LLC
9 Par CT.
Longview TX
US 75605
O 903-297-4931
O 408-850-4958
F 903-297-8490
M 903-240-9105
H 903-297-9728
--------------------------------------------
73's VE3GYV 

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 20:00:59 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:00:59 -0400
Subject: Microsoft running Linux?!?
In-Reply-To: <3F564504.8070107-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564504.8070107@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20030903160059.132e5c22.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:46:12 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I was just looking at Netcraft's "What's That Site Running" pages.  I 
> looked up Microsoft, and it says they run an ISS on a Linux box. 
> According to their FAQ, this indicates a Proxy server or a load 
> balancer, but that still means Microsoft is using Linux routers!  Can 
> someone explain this?  Is this all just an error at Netcraft?

I think they implemented that when the blaster worm started it's DOS on
their site. Of course, Linux being immune to the effects of the
worm...and able to handle a higher load...

what choice did they have?

there was a whole thread about this on the Mandrake list here:

http://archives.mandrakelinux.com/newbie/2003-08/thrd4.php

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
Life is like a 10 speed bicycle.  Most of us have gears we never use.
		-- C. Schultz
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 20:04:29 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 23:04:29 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Microsoft running Linux?!?
In-Reply-To: <3F564504.8070107-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564504.8070107@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309032303590.1217@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


M$ is using akmai.net as mirroring servers, and akmai runs on Linux.

Peter

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Anton Markov wrote:

> I was just looking at Netcraft's "What's That Site Running" pages.  I
> looked up Microsoft, and it says they run an ISS on a Linux box.
> According to their FAQ, this indicates a Proxy server or a load
> balancer, but that still means Microsoft is using Linux routers!  Can
> someone explain this?  Is this all just an error at Netcraft?
>
> The address is:
>
> http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph?site=www.microsoft.com
>
>
> ---
>
> Anton
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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>
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 20:07:59 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:07:59 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F555ACA.5090900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:06:50PM -0400, Tom Legrady wrote:
> I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power failure 
> since 1986? Not a web server!
> 
> It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so 
> important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose 
> it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.

Was there ever ethernet slower than 10MBit?  10base2 and 10base-T are
the first ethernets I have used.

Lennart Sorensne
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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 20:09:23 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:09:23 -0400
Subject: OpenPGP e-mail signing/encryption question
In-Reply-To: <3F564128.8000508-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564128.8000508@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030903160923.006ea9e8@idirect.com>

At 15:29 2003-09-03 -0400, Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>Hello everyone,

Hello, Anton.

>
>A couple of nights ago I decided to look into how to sign/encrypt 
>e-mails.  I figured out the Enigmail stuff, and got it installed and 
>working fine with Mozilla Thunderbird (a great e-mail reader by the 
>way).  I just have two questions:

It's a while since I played with PGP, and even then I didn't
do very much with it.  OTOH, I still remember reading Martin
Gardiner's article about public key encryption in Scientific
American (1971 or so; can anyone here pin it down any
closer?), and I have a hard-copy reprint from MIT of the
famous paper by Rivest, Adelmann (spelling?), and a third
author whose name I forget.  I mention this just to support
the notion that I have *earned* my gray hairs.  So, I'll
take the plunge and attempt some comments.

>
>Should I use the same key for encrypting and signing messages, or am I 
>suppose to generate different ones for each purpose?  From what I 
>understand (this is my first time looking into this issue) I give out my 
>public key in order to receive encrypted messages.  However, I have to 
>give out my private key in order to sign messages or something. This 

Nope.  You sign messages with your private key.  The
recipient can use your public key to verify your signature.
Thus, it is possible to use the same key pair for both
purposes.

That being said, you may want to have more than one key
pair.  This is just to avoid puting all your eggs in one
basket.  (Or all your bits in one bucket <grin/>) Remember
that the security of the encryption algorithm gives you no
protection against *theft* of your private key.

>doesn't make sense to me (why give out both keys), so either I am wrong, 
>or I don't know something.  Any clarification would be appreciated.

I remember reading a study that a shocking percentage new
users of PGP in an experimental environment failed to get
any privacy out of it.  I hope this helps you a little bit.

Terry.
Available for contract programming.

>
>Also, which key server should I use to share my key? Should I upload it 
>to several, or are they all synchronized like DNS servers?  Lastly, is 
>it possible to change the key once it is sent (or at least the comment)?
>
>
>I know this is a little off the Linux topic, but any help would be 
>appreciated.
>
>P.S. PGP is so much easier to set up in Linux vs. Windows!
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>
>Anton
>


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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 20:10:42 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:10:42 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <20030903040112.7252.qmail-1z9btdrhxG2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com> <20030903040112.7252.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030903201042.GU21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 12:01:12AM -0400, Michael wrote:
> You know this sounds more like science fiction or some project on
> computer history, conceive a machine that would continue to work for
> 17 years without fail. There was a machine once, I think it was
> called the Tandem Guardian (sorry this is before my time so the
> spelling is probably wrong) it had hot-swappable everything, even
> CPUs, there were at least two chips in each machine, running in lock
> step to ensure that if one failed the system could keep running. Then
> the first year of operations, daylight savings rolled around, there
> was a bug in the OS and the machines crashed starting in the far East
> and time-zone by time-zone every single Guardian crashed everywhere.

Yeah the Tandem's were bought by HP some years ago and are not HP
NonStop series.  Supposedly something like 95% of ATM transactions (bank
stuff) runs on those systems, as well as phone system billing and such.
They are systems for when failure is not an option.

Lennart Sorensen
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From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 20:13:26 2003
From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 16:13:26 -0400
Subject: More on Dell and licenses
Message-ID: <200309031613.26756.mggagne@salmar.com>


Hello everyone,

Every few days, I get these wonderful special offers from Dell via my fax line 
(I never gave them or anyone the number, but fax offers from various 
companies come nonetheless).  After reading all the Dell and Windows refund 
posts, I decided to see what happened if you went through the "I don't want 
Windows installed" process BEFORE you bought a system.  In other words, no 
question of refunds -- you just don't buy it first and ask later.

Anyhow, the young lady was friendly and helpful, but she was also totally 
confused when I suggested that I wanted to purchase the machine without 
Windows (the deal really is a good deal and I could use a test machine).  She 
explained that all computers come with Windows and I very nicely explained 
that while this was indeed the most common scenario, it wasn't the only one.  
When she asked me how I would use the computer, I told her I would run Linux 
instead.  She then asked me if I would then like to have Linux installed and 
I said "Yes".  Wow, I thought . . . could it be so simple?

No.  She told me that she had to confirm this with her manager and asked me to 
hold for a moment.  When she came back, she told me that her manager had told 
her that all I had to do was forget the Windows installation and install 
Linux instead since they could not (or would not) install Linux for me.  
Fine, I told her.  I can do that.  Will you offer me a discount for not 
getting Windows?   Again a chat with the manager.  She came back and told me 
that they could not do that since all PCs come with Windows -- all I had to 
do was erase it.  Surely, I said, there is some cost involved in a copy of 
Windows XP (home edition), WordPerfect, and Quicken.  Again, a chat with the 
manager.  No, he told her, there is no cost.  All the software is FREE, so no 
discount is possible because it doesn't cost anything to begin with.

The implications of the word FREE here are a powder keg waiting for a match.  
I chose not to persue it any further and told her I would think about it.   
The PC is $499 for a 2.2 Gig Celeron with 128 meg RAM, 40 Gig HD, a 17 inch 
monitor, integrated ethernet and sound -- still a good deal.

Later, eh.

-- 
Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn?
Note:  This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered.
Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/
Author : "Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!"
   Also by Marcel : Linux System Administration, A User's Guide
Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.salmar.com/marcel/wftllugform.html

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 20:36:20 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 16:36:20 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903101113.9697B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903101113.9697B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F5650C4.9090900@rogers.com>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Tue, 2 Sep 2003, Tom Legrady wrote:
> 
>>It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so 
>>important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose 
>>it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.
> 
> 
> Small nit:  there's no such thing as 1Mbit coax Ethernet.  The lowest
> speed that commercially-marketed Ethernet ever came in was 10Mbit.
> (Although the early experimental Ethernet within Xerox ran at 3Mbit.)

Actually, it was slightly below that at 2.94 Mb/s.


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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 21:09:38 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:09:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F5650C4.9090900-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5650C4.9090900@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903170640.16583A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> > (Although the early experimental Ethernet within Xerox ran at 3Mbit.)
> 
> Actually, it was slightly below that at 2.94 Mb/s.

Picky, picky, picky... :-)

(If memory serves, they'd wanted 3, but 2.94 turned out to be what they
could derive easily from available clock sources in the Alto, and the
board was very tight for space and not having to include their own clock
oscillator was a real advantage.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 21:17:01 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 00:17:01 +0300
Subject: vmware (Linux host)
Message-ID: <BAY2-F136XpGRWvUbLk0000ea95@hotmail.com>

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 21:31:15 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:31:15 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <20030903200759.GT21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com> <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F565DA3.3010904@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:06:50PM -0400, Tom Legrady wrote:
> 
>>I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power failure 
>>since 1986? Not a web server!
>>
>>It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so 
>>important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose 
>>it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.
> 
> 
> Was there ever ethernet slower than 10MBit?  10base2 and 10base-T are
> the first ethernets I have used.

Ethernet was originally 2.94 Mb/s.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 21:36:01 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:36:01 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903170640.16583A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030903170640.16583A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F565EC1.10706@rogers.com>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>>(Although the early experimental Ethernet within Xerox ran at 3Mbit.)
>>
>>Actually, it was slightly below that at 2.94 Mb/s.
> 
> 
> Picky, picky, picky... :-)
> 
> (If memory serves, they'd wanted 3, but 2.94 turned out to be what they
> could derive easily from available clock sources in the Alto, and the
> board was very tight for space and not having to include their own clock
> oscillator was a real advantage.)

That's the way I heard it too.



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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 21:39:08 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 17:39:08 -0400
Subject: vmware (Linux host)
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F136XpGRWvUbLk0000ea95-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F136XpGRWvUbLk0000ea95@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030903173820.009edec0@pop1.sympatico.ca>

They don't sell it any more.

At 12:17 AM 9/4/03 +0300, you wrote:

>VMware is not free software. You got to buy it (to get the key).
>
>EK
>
> >From: Elliott Chapin
> >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >Subject: [TLUG]: vmware (Linux host)
> >Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 14:53:01 -0400
> >
> >My PC (AMD K6) will not handle v. 4. Apparently v.3 would be OK: It
> >(3.2.1 downloaded from their site) installed, but I cannot start it
> >because I cannot get a key from them, apparently on any terms.Help
> >or available copy?
> >
> >Thanks ...
> >
> >
> >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
> >
> >
> >
> >--
> >The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>
>----------
>Add photos to your messages with <http://g.msn.com/8HMFEN/2749??PS=>MSN 8. 
>Get 2 months FREE*. -- The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: 
>http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 
>80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep  3 21:37:52 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 17:37:52 -0400
Subject: OpenPGP e-mail signing/encryption question
In-Reply-To: <3F564128.8000508-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564128.8000508@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20030903173752.1ee53925.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 15:29:44 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Hello everyone,
> 
> A couple of nights ago I decided to look into how to sign/encrypt 
> e-mails.  I figured out the Enigmail stuff, and got it installed and 
> working fine with Mozilla Thunderbird (a great e-mail reader by the 
> way).  I just have two questions:

This two-part article is a good introduction:

<http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=4828>

and

<http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=4892>

 
> Should I use the same key for encrypting and signing messages, or am I 
> suppose to generate different ones for each purpose?  From what I 
> understand (this is my first time looking into this issue) I give out my 
> public key in order to receive encrypted messages.

> However, I have to  give out my private key in order to sign messages or something. 

You *never* give out your private key. You do use your private key to
sign a message. 

> This  doesn't make sense to me (why give out both keys), so either I am wrong, 
> or I don't know something.  Any clarification would be appreciated.

Read the articles.

> 
> Also, which key server should I use to share my key? Should I upload it 
> to several, or are they all synchronized like DNS servers?

They synchronize. I always use pgp.mit.edu but you can pick a different one if you like.

>  Lastly, is 
> it possible to change the key once it is sent (or at least the comment)?

Read the articles. 

Good luck.

~ C


-- 
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability"
to death--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 02:33:09 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:33:09 -0400
Subject: OpenPGP e-mail signing/encryption question
In-Reply-To: <20030903173752.1ee53925.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564128.8000508@truxtar.com> <20030903173752.1ee53925.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F56A465.50007@truxtar.com>

Thanks a lot for your help Chris.  I finally got it all down in my head. 
This e-mailing signing and encryption thing turned out to be far easier 
than I predicted.  I wonder why more people aren't using it.

Two quick questions:

1. Do you guys sign each-other's keys at TLUG meetings?  I have never 
been able to get to one (various reasons), but I plan on going soon.  So 
I am just wondering.

2. Did I include the right part of the fingerprint from the
gpg --fingerprint
command in my signature as per the recommendation of the articles?

Thanks again.


-- 
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3 CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 02:31:12 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 22:31:12 -0400
Subject: OpenPGP e-mail signing/encryption question
In-Reply-To: <3F56A465.50007-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564128.8000508@truxtar.com>
	<20030903173752.1ee53925.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<3F56A465.50007@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20030903223112.0d48a3b8.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On Wed, 03 Sep 2003 22:33:09 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Thanks a lot for your help Chris.  I finally got it all down in my head. 
> This e-mailing signing and encryption thing turned out to be far easier 
> than I predicted.  I wonder why more people aren't using it.

Partly laziness, I think. Also because people generally aren't aware
enough about the issues to develop the proper level of paranoia.
 
> Two quick questions:
> 
> 1. Do you guys sign each-other's keys at TLUG meetings?  I have never 
> been able to get to one (various reasons), but I plan on going soon.  So 
> I am just wondering.

I think Kristopher Coward tried to set one up last year but there wasn't
enough interest.

It doesn't have to be a massive event. I'd be willing to meet you over
coffee to do it.

> 2. Did I include the right part of the fingerprint from the
> gpg --fingerprint
> command in my signature as per the recommendation of the articles?

Can't check it without your public key. Want to e-mail that directly to
me and then I'll test it, or have you uploaded your key yet?

~ C

-- 
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability"
to death--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
--
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 06:35:19 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 02:35:19 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <200309031341.43419.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com> <20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200309031341.43419.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030904063519.GC27280@m450>

On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 01:41:43PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote

> The stock market is a game that you can win by betting on winners or
> losers.  There's nothing dishonourable about betting on a loser, IMO.
> 
> So Matt, do you think it's still to early to start shorting SCO ;-)

  "Shorting" is a *VERY* risky strategy.  If you're not a professional
trader, don't even *THINK* about it.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 10:54:22 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 06:54:22 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <20030904063519.GC27280-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
	<20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200309031341.43419.fraser@wehave.net> <20030904063519.GC27280@m450>
Message-ID: <lvvfs8u8m9.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org writes:
> On Wed, Sep 03, 2003 at 01:41:43PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote
> > The stock market is a game that you can win by betting on winners or
> > losers.  There's nothing dishonourable about betting on a loser, IMO.
> > 
> > So Matt, do you think it's still to early to start shorting SCO ;-)
> 
>   "Shorting" is a *VERY* risky strategy.  If you're not a professional
> trader, don't even *THINK* about it.

Tough!!!  As soon as I have the $10-20 million saved up that I think that I
need to control the shorting, I'm doing it.
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 12:00:54 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 08:00:54 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <lvvfs8u8m9.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
	<lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
	<20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200309031341.43419.fraser@wehave.net>
	<20030904063519.GC27280@m450>
	<lvvfs8u8m9.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <20030904080054.6e41e56f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On 04 Sep 2003 06:54:22 -0400
Matthew Rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Tough!!!  As soon as I have the $10-20 million saved up that I think
> that I need to control the shorting, I'm doing it.

I think I saw a toonie under the seat of my car this AM...I could
contribute ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't kid yourself.  Little is relevant, and nothing lasts forever.
--
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From andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 12:32:30 2003
From: andzy-bYF1QM81rroS+FvcfC7Uqw at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 07:32:30 -0500
Subject: Fwd: TLUG on Gmane - Reprise
Message-ID: <20030904123230.A4EA47887C@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

For all those who've been denied their TLUG by Sympatico since mid-Aug,
I'm reposting my notice that missed messages can be read (and replies
posted) at gmane.org


Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 03:02:39 -0400, "Marc Lijour" <marc?kyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> said:
> 
>>Le 11 Ao?t 2003 21:51, Walter Dnes a ?crit :
>>
>>>On Sun, Aug 10, 2003 at 11:05:55PM -0400, Gregory Pleau wrote
>>>
>>>
>>>>Now that I've missed a month of TLUG mailings, Two questions:
> 
> 
> You haven't missed a whole month of mailings: TLUG is now on Gmane and
> you can read posts back to Aug 11th via web or news:
> 
> http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug
> nntp://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug
> 
> Note the group name is "tolug" (tlug was taken).  Only the last 600
> messages are available via the web interface.  The whole archive is
> available via news.
> 
> We now need someone to upload to Gmane prior TLUG archives in mbox
> format.


-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
--
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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 12:46:26 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C.Russell)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 8:46:26 -0400
Subject: Fwd: TLUG on Gmane - Reprise
Message-ID: <20030904124626.DWZD15577.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>

Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> 
> For all those who've been denied their TLUG by 
> Sympatico since mid-Aug ...

I checked last night -- my access was out since 
late June. Kinda wondered where all you guys went 
over the summer.

 Stewart


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From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:07:22 2003
From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:07:22 -0400
Subject: Linux in RAM
Message-ID: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>

Hello all,

Wondering if anyone has been able to get something like this going 
before....

I'm looking to build a shock-proof portable Linux

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From sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:08:55 2003
From: sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:08:55 -0400
Subject: Lycoris [Was: Windows refund: stymied]
In-Reply-To: <3F563CFD.3040600-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F563CFD.3040600@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <005701c372fe$d73e7480$6401a8c0@main>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Anton
> Markov
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 3:12 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Lycoris [Was: Windows refund: stymied]
> 
> I think Synaptic (the front end for apt-get) is a perfect tool for
> newbies. It gives you categorised lists of packages and allows you to
> update all your packages with the click of a button.  It doesn't allow
> you to break any dependencies, and can fix them if necessary.  I think
> it's far better than Redhat Network, and it's completely free.  It
also
> doesn't depend on a particular distribution as long as it uses RPMs or
> DEBs.
> 
> 

I took a look at http://www.nongnu.org/synaptic/index.html, is there a
program which does this kind of thing in text mode for RH 7.3? Also, as
an aside, is it possible to change the account my server uses for
up2date? The sysadmin registered it, but I don't know the password and
now can not check for updates.

Sid
--
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From sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:10:30 2003
From: sidneyshapiro-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:10:30 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <1062609253.7076.123.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <005801c372ff$0fbce350$6401a8c0@main>

> I've had great success with a Linksys box, but then again I'm using a
> Linksys card, and never tried it with a mac.  I've done all of the
> configuration through the web interface, and pretty much tossed the
CD's
> unused into the trash (or my pack of unused install crap which is the
> same thing).
> 
> Kareem
> 

I would also recommend the Linksys boxes. I have installed them in
several offices around the city, and I am quite happy with the interface
and the performance.

Sid 
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From hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:33:49 2003
From: hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Herb Richter)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:33:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pine and/or Sendmail outgoing mail
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000@white.buynet.com>



I need to configure pine (and/or sendmail) to deliver outgoing mail to my
ISP's smtp server rather than directly to the recipient's mail server.
(I'm getting tired of having my email to users at aol.com etc being spam
filtered because the mail originates from a dynamic IP)

I've tried setting:

smtp-server              = smtp.mtag.phub.net.cable.rogers.com

in the pine setup-configuration but I get an error message that "relaying
mail to xxxx.com is not allowed".  The message appears very quickly so I
think the problem is local.

I've also tried settings in .pinerc and /etc/pine.conf plus some (guesses)
in /etc/sendmail.cf ...always with the same result.

I can set and use the rogers smtp server in netscape.

I'd prefer a solution that allows local mail to still be delivered
directly and not through rogers' smtp (because rogers is often slow, down
or unavailable).  If not, I could get by if I was still able to configure
the smpt-server on a per-user basis.

TIA for any help or suggestions.

-- 

        Herb Richter  <hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
        Toronto, Ontario
        http://PartsAndService.com
        http://PartsAndService.ca

P.S.
stats:	redhat 7.1 (I think)
	pine 4.33
	sendmail 8.11.2


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From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:34:10 2003
From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:34:10 -0400
Subject: Linux in RAM
In-Reply-To: <3F57633A.4050400-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <200309041234.10532.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca>

Many small Linux applications run in RAM, like Freesco, Coyote and LInux 
Router Project.  I have Freesco running in 8mb RAM, from a single floppy.

As for larger distributions, Knoppix runs in RAM, boots from CD and has a  
full-on KDE/Open Office setup. 

A Compact flash  card connected through an adapter to an IDE port would help, 
too. This would look like a hard drive, and allow you data storage.

Duncan

==================

On Thursday 04 September 2003 12:07 pm, Dave Stubbs wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> Wondering if anyone has been able to get something like this going
> before....
>
> I'm looking to build a shock-proof portable Linux
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:47:10 2003
From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:47:10 -0400
Subject: My DNS Configuration
Message-ID: <001a01c37304$2f193370$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>

Hi all,

I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few days. I thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not. Here is all my DNS  information...

IP: 66.11.182.5
domain: cbits.ca
machine name: penguin.cbits.ca

Initially my IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com but I asked my ISP to change that to penguin.cbits.ca. I have set up the nameservers where I registered the domain to point to my machine and istops nameservers.

NS1 = penguin.cbits.ca
IP    = 66.11.182.5

NS2 = ns.istop.com   
IP    =  66.11.168.199

I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just wanna fix the DNS information on my box. 

Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the penguin.cbits.ca.?

key "key" {
        algorithm       hmac-md5;
        secret
"Some key";
};

controls {
    inet 127.0.0.1 allow { any; } keys { "key"; };
};

query-source address * port 53;
        listen-on port 53 {
                66.11.182.5;
                };
        listen-on port 53 {
                192.168.0.1;
                };

zone "." {
        type hint;
        file "named.ca";
};

zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
        type master;
        file "named.local";
};

zone "cbits.ca" {
        type master;
        file "/var/named/cbits.ca.hosts";
        };

zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
        type master;
        file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
        };

zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
        type master;
        file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
        };


In /var/named there are files for each of these entries... here is what they say..

FILE: cbits.ca.hosts

$ttl 38400
cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                        1062647668
                        10800
                        3600
                        604800
                        38400 )
cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca

FILE: penguin.cbits.ca.hosts

$ttl 38400
penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                        1062647732
                        10800
                        3600
                        604800
                        38400 )
penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca

FILE: 66.11.182.5.rev

$ttl 38400
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                        1062647695
                        10800
                        3600
                        604800
                        38400 )
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      PTR     penguin.cbits.ca.

Can someone point out the error of my ways. If you need more information, just ask. Thanks! :-)



-------------- next part --------------
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From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:49:12 2003
From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:49:12 -0400
Subject: My DNS Configuration
References: <001a01c37304$2f193370$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>
Message-ID: <003001c37304$78304a80$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>

I should add I tested this from hotmail, trying to send myself an email and this is what it said when it came back to my hotmail account..
 This is the Postfix program at host penguin.cbits.ca.

####################################################################
# THIS IS A WARNING ONLY.  YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. #
####################################################################

Your message could not be delivered for 4.0 hours.
It will be retried until it is 5.0 days old.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

			The Postfix program

<jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org>: Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca type=MX:
    Host not found, try again
 
Reporting-MTA: dns; penguin.cbits.ca
Arrival-Date: Thu,  4 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org
Action: delayed
Status: 4.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
    type=MX: Host not found, try again
Will-Retry-Until: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jay 
  To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
  Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:47 PM
  Subject: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration


  Hi all,

  I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few days. I thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not. Here is all my DNS  information...

  IP: 66.11.182.5
  domain: cbits.ca
  machine name: penguin.cbits.ca

  Initially my IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com but I asked my ISP to change that to penguin.cbits.ca. I have set up the nameservers where I registered the domain to point to my machine and istops nameservers.

  NS1 = penguin.cbits.ca
  IP    = 66.11.182.5

  NS2 = ns.istop.com   
  IP    =  66.11.168.199

  I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just wanna fix the DNS information on my box. 

  Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the penguin.cbits.ca.?

  key "key" {
          algorithm       hmac-md5;
          secret
  "Some key";
  };

  controls {
      inet 127.0.0.1 allow { any; } keys { "key"; };
  };

  query-source address * port 53;
          listen-on port 53 {
                  66.11.182.5;
                  };
          listen-on port 53 {
                  192.168.0.1;
                  };

  zone "." {
          type hint;
          file "named.ca";
  };

  zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
          type master;
          file "named.local";
  };

  zone "cbits.ca" {
          type master;
          file "/var/named/cbits.ca.hosts";
          };

  zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
          type master;
          file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
          };

  zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
          type master;
          file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
          };


  In /var/named there are files for each of these entries... here is what they say..

  FILE: cbits.ca.hosts

  $ttl 38400
  cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                          1062647668
                          10800
                          3600
                          604800
                          38400 )
  cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
  cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
  penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
  cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca

  FILE: penguin.cbits.ca.hosts

  $ttl 38400
  penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                          1062647732
                          10800
                          3600
                          604800
                          38400 )
  penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
  penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
  cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca

  FILE: 66.11.182.5.rev

  $ttl 38400
  5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                          1062647695
                          10800
                          3600
                          604800
                          38400 )
  5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
  5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      PTR     penguin.cbits.ca.

  Can someone point out the error of my ways. If you need more information, just ask. Thanks! :-)



-------------- next part --------------
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From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:52:58 2003
From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:52:58 -0400
Subject: My DNS Configuration
References: <001a01c37304$2f193370$6400a8c0@jrccomputer> <003001c37304$78304a80$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>
Message-ID: <004e01c37304$fedb8a90$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>

That was to jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org The jay at cbits.ca don't do anything
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jay 
  To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
  Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:49 PM
  Subject: Re: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration


  I should add I tested this from hotmail, trying to send myself an email and this is what it said when it came back to my hotmail account..
    This is the Postfix program at host penguin.cbits.ca.

####################################################################
# THIS IS A WARNING ONLY.  YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. #
####################################################################

Your message could not be delivered for 4.0 hours.
It will be retried until it is 5.0 days old.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

			The Postfix program

<jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org>: Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca type=MX:
    Host not found, try again
 
Reporting-MTA: dns; penguin.cbits.ca
Arrival-Date: Thu,  4 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org
Action: delayed
Status: 4.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
    type=MX: Host not found, try again
Will-Retry-Until: Tue,  9 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
 

    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Jay 
    To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
    Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:47 PM
    Subject: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration


    Hi all,

    I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few days. I thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not. Here is all my DNS  information...

    IP: 66.11.182.5
    domain: cbits.ca
    machine name: penguin.cbits.ca

    Initially my IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com but I asked my ISP to change that to penguin.cbits.ca. I have set up the nameservers where I registered the domain to point to my machine and istops nameservers.

    NS1 = penguin.cbits.ca
    IP    = 66.11.182.5

    NS2 = ns.istop.com   
    IP    =  66.11.168.199

    I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just wanna fix the DNS information on my box. 

    Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the penguin.cbits.ca.?

    key "key" {
            algorithm       hmac-md5;
            secret
    "Some key";
    };

    controls {
        inet 127.0.0.1 allow { any; } keys { "key"; };
    };

    query-source address * port 53;
            listen-on port 53 {
                    66.11.182.5;
                    };
            listen-on port 53 {
                    192.168.0.1;
                    };

    zone "." {
            type hint;
            file "named.ca";
    };

    zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
            type master;
            file "named.local";
    };

    zone "cbits.ca" {
            type master;
            file "/var/named/cbits.ca.hosts";
            };

    zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
            type master;
            file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
            };

    zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
            type master;
            file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
            };


    In /var/named there are files for each of these entries... here is what they say..

    FILE: cbits.ca.hosts

    $ttl 38400
    cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                            1062647668
                            10800
                            3600
                            604800
                            38400 )
    cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
    cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
    penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
    cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca

    FILE: penguin.cbits.ca.hosts

    $ttl 38400
    penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                            1062647732
                            10800
                            3600
                            604800
                            38400 )
    penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
    penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
    cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca

    FILE: 66.11.182.5.rev

    $ttl 38400
    5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                            1062647695
                            10800
                            3600
                            604800
                            38400 )
    5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
    5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      PTR     penguin.cbits.ca.

    Can someone point out the error of my ways. If you need more information, just ask. Thanks! :-)



-------------- next part --------------
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:17:05 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 13:17:05 -0400
Subject: Linux in RAM
In-Reply-To: <3F57633A.4050400-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <1062695825.26213.2.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>

On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 12:07, Dave Stubbs wrote:
> I'm looking to build a shock-proof portable Linux
By shock-proof, you mean?

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:19:47 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:19:47 -0400
Subject: My DNS Configuration
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A911D@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I have tried looking up cbits.ca and I cannot find any reference to the domain at all.

I also tried looking up cbits.ca with the servers listed in your message and got nothing.

Your server appears to have port 53 open(66.11.182.5), but your domain is not resolving. 

What happens when you try Dig or NSlookup on the local machine? 

Is your secondary server set up to get zone updates from your primary server? 

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


________________________________________
From: Jay [mailto:jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:53 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

That was to jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org?The jay at cbits.ca don't do anything
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay 
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration

I should add I tested this from hotmail, trying to send myself an email and this is what it said when it came back to my hotmail account..
? 
This is the Postfix program at host penguin.cbits.ca.

####################################################################
# THIS IS A WARNING ONLY.? YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. #
####################################################################

Your message could not be delivered for 4.0 hours.
It will be retried until it is 5.0 days old.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

			The Postfix program

<jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org>: Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca type=MX:
??? Host not found, try again

Reporting-MTA: dns; penguin.cbits.ca
Arrival-Date: Thu,? 4 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org
Action: delayed
Status: 4.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
??? type=MX: Host not found, try again
Will-Retry-Until: Tue,? 9 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay 
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration

Hi all,
?
I?set up my DNS and have?let it propagate around the world for a few days. I thought I had set up my MX records correctly?but apparently not. Here is all my DNS? information...
?
IP: 66.11.182.5
domain: cbits.ca
machine name: penguin.cbits.ca
?
Initially my IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com but I asked my ISP to change that to penguin.cbits.ca. I have set up the nameservers where I registered the domain to point to my machine and istops nameservers.
?
NS1 = penguin.cbits.ca
IP????=?66.11.182.5
?
NS2 = ns.istop.com???
IP??? =? 66.11.168.199
?
I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just wanna fix the DNS information on my box. 
?
Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the penguin.cbits.ca.?
?
key "key" {
??????? algorithm?????? hmac-md5;
??????? secret
"Some key";
};
?
controls {
??? inet 127.0.0.1 allow { any; } keys { "key"; };
};
?
query-source address * port 53;
??????? listen-on port 53 {
??????????????? 66.11.182.5;
??????????????? };
??????? listen-on port 53 {
??????????????? 192.168.0.1;
??????????????? };
zone "." {
??????? type hint;
??????? file "named.ca";
};
?
zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
??????? type master;
??????? file "named.local";
};
?
zone "cbits.ca" {
??????? type master;
??????? file "/var/named/cbits.ca.hosts";
??????? };
?
zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
??????? type master;
??????? file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
??????? };
?
zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
??????? type master;
??????? file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
??????? };
?
In /var/named there are files for each of these entries... here is what they say..
?
FILE: cbits.ca.hosts
?
$ttl 38400
cbits.ca.?????? IN????? SOA???? penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
??????????????????????? 1062647668
??????????????????????? 10800
??????????????????????? 3600
??????????????????????? 604800
??????????????????????? 38400 )
cbits.ca.?????? IN????? NS????? penguin.cbits.ca.
cbits.ca.?????? IN????? A?????? 66.11.182.5
penguin.cbits.ca.?????? IN????? A?????? 66.11.182.5
cbits.ca.?????? IN????? MX????? 10 penguin.cbits.ca
FILE: penguin.cbits.ca.hosts
?
$ttl 38400
penguin.cbits.ca.?????? IN????? SOA???? penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
??????????????????????? 1062647732
??????????????????????? 10800
??????????????????????? 3600
??????????????????????? 604800
??????????????????????? 38400 )
penguin.cbits.ca.?????? IN????? NS????? penguin.cbits.ca.
penguin.cbits.ca.?????? IN????? A?????? 66.11.182.5
cbits.ca.?????? IN????? MX????? 10 penguin.cbits.ca
FILE: 66.11.182.5.rev
?
$ttl 38400
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.?????? IN????? SOA???? penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
??????????????????????? 1062647695
??????????????????????? 10800
??????????????????????? 3600
??????????????????????? 604800
??????????????????????? 38400 )
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.?????? IN????? NS????? penguin.cbits.ca.
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.?????? IN????? PTR???? penguin.cbits.ca.
Can someone point out the error of my ways. If you need more information, just ask. Thanks! :-)
?
?
?
?

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:24:55 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:24:55 -0400
Subject: Linux in RAM
In-Reply-To: <200309041234.10532.dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> <200309041234.10532.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca>
Message-ID: <200309041324.55866.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 04 September 2003 12:34, Duncan MacGregor wrote:

> A Compact flash  card connected through an adapter to an IDE port would
> help, too. This would look like a hard drive, and allow you data storage.

I'm running my Bering LEAF firewall on a CF card through an IDE adaptor.  It's 
certainly more shock proof than a hard drive but I'm not sure of what type of 
environment you're looking at.

CF cards allow only a limited number of write cycles so if you're going to be 
writing a lot of data you might be out of luck.  LEAF by default never writes 
to the HDD so I'm not too worried about that aspect.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:15:07 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:15:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My DNS Configuration
In-Reply-To: <001a01c37304$2f193370$6400a8c0-s1KvLpT30YgZj6S/xCzO9g@public.gmane.org>
References: <001a01c37304$2f193370$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>
Message-ID: <61425.64.228.103.50.1062695707.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Hi all,
>
> I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few
> days. I thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not.
> Here is all my DNS  information...
<snip>
> I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just
> wanna fix the DNS information on my box.
>
> Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND
> penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the
> penguin.cbits.ca.?

One zone file per domain is sufficient. Any more might confuse matters,
which is what seems to be happening here.

<snip>
-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:18:29 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:18:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pine and/or Sendmail outgoing mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000-m8/izrrhnI0lP0K0wFm6aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000@white.buynet.com>
Message-ID: <61431.64.228.103.50.1062695909.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I need to configure pine (and/or sendmail) to deliver outgoing mail to
> my ISP's smtp server rather than directly to the recipient's mail
> server. (I'm getting tired of having my email to users at aol.com etc
> being spam filtered because the mail originates from a dynamic IP)

I remember having this problem some time back. I don't use sendmail and I
thought postfix was overkill (I've since changed my mind) so I ran ssmtp
instead. Very small, perfect for one machine to isp.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


--
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From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:36:04 2003
From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:36:04 -0400
Subject: My DNS Configuration (new configuration)
References: <001a01c37304$2f193370$6400a8c0@jrccomputer> <61425.64.228.103.50.1062695707.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <000901c3730b$03fde030$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>

okay, I deleted the cbits.ca zone file and modified the penguin.cbits.ca
file

Here is my configuration now

In named.conf

zone "." {
        type hint;
        file "named.ca";
};

zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
        type master;
        file "named.local";
};


zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
        type master;
        file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
        };

zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
        type master;
        file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
        };


In /var/named the files

---> penguin.cbits.ca.hosts

$ttl 38400
penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
                        1062647735
                        10800
                        3600
                        604800
                        38400 )
penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca
penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca
cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca
cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5


---> 66.11.182.5.rev

$ttl 38400
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca.
jay.cbits.ca. (
                        1062647695
                        10800
                        3600
                        604800
                        38400 )
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      PTR     penguin.cbits.ca.



-Jay





----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:15 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration


>
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few
> > days. I thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not.
> > Here is all my DNS  information...
> <snip>
> > I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just
> > wanna fix the DNS information on my box.
> >
> > Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND
> > penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the
> > penguin.cbits.ca.?
>
> One zone file per domain is sufficient. Any more might confuse matters,
> which is what seems to be happening here.
>
> <snip>
> -- 
> Keith Mastin
> BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> Toronto, Canada
> (416)696 6070
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:24:36 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:24:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Linux in RAM
In-Reply-To: <3F57633A.4050400-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <61452.64.228.103.50.1062696276.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Hello all,
>
> Wondering if anyone has been able to get something like this going
> before....
>
> I'm looking to build a shock-proof portable Linux

Embedded or wearable?

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:42:55 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C.Russell)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:42:55 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
Message-ID: <20030904174255.CFIL15356.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>

Sidney Shapiro wrote:
> 
> I would also recommend the Linksys boxes.

better and better, thanks. Since they're now under $100 for the 11b box from ICCT and OTA, I just bought one.

Shame the card it'll talk to for our eMac was $125 ...

 Stewart


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:32:40 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:32:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My DNS Configuration (new configuration)
In-Reply-To: <000901c3730b$03fde030$6400a8c0-s1KvLpT30YgZj6S/xCzO9g@public.gmane.org>
References: <001a01c37304$2f193370$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>
        <61425.64.228.103.50.1062695707.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <000901c3730b$03fde030$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>
Message-ID: <61456.64.228.103.50.1062696760.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> okay, I deleted the cbits.ca zone file and modified the penguin.cbits.ca
> file
>
> Here is my configuration now
>
> In named.conf
>
> zone "." {
>         type hint;
>         file "named.ca";
> };
>
> zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
>         type master;
>         file "named.local";
> };
>
>
> zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
>         type master;
>         file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
>         };
>
> zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
>         type master;
>         file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
>         };

I assume you are using keys and have all of that configured correctly. If
so, then this should work. Do you see any error messages in messages when
you restart named?

> In /var/named the files
>
> ---> penguin.cbits.ca.hosts
>
> $ttl 38400
> penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca.
> (
>                         1062647735
>                         10800
>                         3600
>                         604800
>                         38400 )
> penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca
> penguin.cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
> cbits.ca.       IN      MX      10 penguin.cbits.ca
> cbits.ca.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca
> cbits.ca.       IN      A       66.11.182.5
>
>
> ---> 66.11.182.5.rev
>
> $ttl 38400
> 5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      SOA     penguin.cbits.ca.
> jay.cbits.ca. (
>                         1062647695
>                         10800
>                         3600
>                         604800
>                         38400 )
> 5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      NS      penguin.cbits.ca.
> 5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa.       IN      PTR     penguin.cbits.ca.
>
>
>
> -Jay

The next thing I would do just for clarity's sake is to rename the FDQN
the mailserver responds to to mail.cbits.ca and add mail.cbits.ca to your
zone file. Add an A record for mail.cbits.ca. I think that should be it.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 17:00:54 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 13:00:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Linux in RAM
In-Reply-To: <3F57633A.4050400-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <22299.199.64.0.252.1062694854.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

I use a LEAF (Linux Embedded Application Firewall) based firewall image
called Dachstein in a few locations.  I've also used a 32M Disk-On-Chip to
boot QNX on a robot I once built.  Except for firmware weirdness, it
worked just like a harddrive, and had drivers for Linux.  Google for LEAF
and have a look around.  There are lots of other micro-distribution, but I
haven't played with any of them.
Kareem

Dave Stubbs said:
> Hello all,
>
> Wondering if anyone has been able to get something like this going
> before....
>
> I'm looking to build a shock-proof portable Linux


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/



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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 18:21:15 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 14:21:15 -0400
Subject: ipcop 1.3
Message-ID: <1062699674.3016.3.camel@linux.local>

Question

I have an Intel 563ep modem (pci) that comes with source for compiling a
driver. I have used these before with no problems on other distros.

Problem

IPcop 1.3.0 does not have any of the basic tools used to complile (
make, cc ) etc.

Result = Headache :(

Solution ?

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 18:31:22 2003
From: steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Ellis, Steve)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 14:31:22 -0400
Subject: ipcop 1.3
Message-ID: <A37D93BF2888D51197CD00508BBD49C30DAA6BD9@cbexch03.mobility.com>

You need to compile the driver on another box and add the binary by hand. I
seem to recall there is an FAQ/Howto on IPCop's website for compiling from
CVS; this may help with compiling a third party driver for IPCop.

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Jason Shein [mailto:jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 2:21 PM
To: Toronto Linux Users Group
Subject: [TLUG]: ipcop 1.3

Question

I have an Intel 563ep modem (pci) that comes with source for compiling a
driver. I have used these before with no problems on other distros.

Problem

IPcop 1.3.0 does not have any of the basic tools used to complile (
make, cc ) etc.

Result = Headache :(

Solution ?

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 18:44:47 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:44:47 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <005801c372ff$0fbce350$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda>
 <005801c372ff$0fbce350$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0@localhost>

At 12:10 PM 04/09/2003 -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote:
> > I've had great success with a Linksys box, but then again I'm using a
> > Linksys card, and never tried it with a mac.  I've done all of the
> > configuration through the web interface, and pretty much tossed the
>CD's
> > unused into the trash (or my pack of unused install crap which is the
> > same thing).
> >
> > Kareem
> >
>
>I would also recommend the Linksys boxes. I have installed them in
>several offices around the city, and I am quite happy with the interface
>and the performance.
>
>Sid

Hi,

I am interested in one of the 802.11g access points. I have noticed that 
access points are often more expensive than routers and they never seem to 
go on sale. Can the routers be used as access points? In other words, is it 
possible to disable the routing, dhcp, and firewall capabilities of the 
routers, such as those from Linksys, D-Link, and SMC and use them strictly 
as access points?

I use an old PC running Linux for firewalling, routing, and dchp and have 
no  desire to change that. The plan is to add a third NIC to the Linux box, 
run IPsec on it so that all wireless communications will be across IPsec 
tunnels.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 18:55:32 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:55:32 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>

Hi,

Security conscious system administrators seem to favour running as few 
services on the firewall as possible and prefer to put things like http, 
smb, smtp, pop, etc. on boxes in a DMZ or behind the firewall. I guess the 
theory is the more services that are run on the firewall, the greater the 
points of vulnerability, but, if one must allow access to http, smtp, and 
pop from the outside world, one still has to open those ports on the 
firewall and forward them to the appropriate machines on the inside 
network. Setting aside the DMZ issue for the time being, what, if any, 
advantage is there to running these services on machines behind the 
firewall? Is it just that if the firewall is compromised, the bad guy still 
has to crack the machine on the inside or is there something I am missing?

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 19:01:38 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:01:38 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda> <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0@localhost>
Message-ID: <200309041501.38139.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

>
> Hi,
>
> I am interested in one of the 802.11g access points. I have noticed that
> access points are often more expensive than routers and they never seem to
> go on sale. Can the routers be used as access points? In other words, is it
> possible to disable the routing, dhcp, and firewall capabilities of the
> routers, such as those from Linksys, D-Link, and SMC and use them strictly
> as access points?
>
> I use an old PC running Linux for firewalling, routing, and dchp and have
> no  desire to change that. The plan is to add a third NIC to the Linux box,
> run IPsec on it so that all wireless communications will be across IPsec
> tunnels.
>
 You could also just put a wireless card in your gateway and have it function 
as an access point.  See:

http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-wap.html?ca=dgr-lnxw03AccessPoint
and 
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2001/03/06/recipe.html

Charly Baker
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 19:18:02 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:18:02 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
Message-ID: <20030904151802.7f29ded6.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:55:32 -0400
CLIFFORD ILKAY <clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Is it just that if the firewall is compromised, the bad guy still 
> has to crack the machine on the inside or is there something I am
> missing?

AFAIK, if the firewall is compromised, the "hacker" would still have to
get root access on the hosts to do any real damage, but it would still
be a Very Bad Thing.

It is *always* best to run *any* service behind a firewall that you want
protected, particularly a firewall that does inspection of incoming and
outgoing packets for things like spoofing, "man in the middle" attacks,
syn floods (duh), etc. and yes, the fewer services open on the firewall
the better.

The thing about a firewall is that the hosts behind it are (or are
supposed to be) invisible, since their IPs are private and cannot be
seen from the WAN, ie. 192.168.0.x.

You want a firewall that does port forwarding, network address
translation, and stateful traffic inspection (IIRC).

If you have a spare box around there are several easy sol'ns, like
ClarkConnect, BBIAgent (runs off a floppy) or Smoothwall.

HTH

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
Happiness is just an illusion, filled with sadness and confusion.
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From jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 19:41:25 2003
From: jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:41:25 -0400
Subject: My DNS Configuration
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A911D@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <000f01c3731c$8722f700$6400a8c0@jrccomputer>

nslookup 66.11.182.5

Server:         66.11.168.195
Address:        66.11.168.195#53

Non-authoritative answer:
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa        name = penguin.cbits.ca.

Authoritative answers can be found from:
182.11.66.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = ns.istop.com.
182.11.66.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = dci.doncaster.on.ca.
ns.istop.com    internet address = 66.11.168.199
dci.doncaster.on.ca     internet address = 66.11.168.194


nslookup penguin.cbits.ca

Server:         66.11.168.195
Address:        66.11.168.195#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:   penguin.cbits.ca
Address: 66.11.182.5


nslookup cbits.ca
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wil McGilvery" <wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration


I have tried looking up cbits.ca and I cannot find any reference to the
domain at all.

I also tried looking up cbits.ca with the servers listed in your message and
got nothing.

Your server appears to have port 53 open(66.11.182.5), but your domain is
not resolving.

What happens when you try Dig or NSlookup on the local machine?

Is your secondary server set up to get zone updates from your primary
server?

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc



416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406 FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


________________________________________
From: Jay [mailto:jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:53 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

That was to jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org The jay at cbits.ca don't do anything
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration

I should add I tested this from hotmail, trying to send myself an email and
this is what it said when it came back to my hotmail account..

This is the Postfix program at host penguin.cbits.ca.

####################################################################
# THIS IS A WARNING ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. #
####################################################################

Your message could not be delivered for 4.0 hours.
It will be retried until it is 5.0 days old.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

The Postfix program

<jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org>: Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
type=MX:
Host not found, try again

Reporting-MTA: dns; penguin.cbits.ca
Arrival-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org
Action: delayed
Status: 4.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
type=MX: Host not found, try again
Will-Retry-Until: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration

Hi all,

I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few days. I
thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not. Here is all
my DNS information...

IP: 66.11.182.5
domain: cbits.ca
machine name: penguin.cbits.ca

Initially my IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com but I asked my ISP to change
that to penguin.cbits.ca. I have set up the nameservers where I registered
the domain to point to my machine and istops nameservers.

NS1 = penguin.cbits.ca
IP = 66.11.182.5

NS2 = ns.istop.com
IP = 66.11.168.199

I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just wanna
fix the DNS information on my box.

Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND
penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the
penguin.cbits.ca.?

key "key" {
algorithm hmac-md5;
secret
"Some key";
};

controls {
inet 127.0.0.1 allow { any; } keys { "key"; };
};

query-source address * port 53;
listen-on port 53 {
66.11.182.5;
};
listen-on port 53 {
192.168.0.1;
};
zone "." {
type hint;
file "named.ca";
};

zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "named.local";
};

zone "cbits.ca" {
type master;
file "/var/named/cbits.ca.hosts";
};

zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
};

zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
type master;
file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
};

In /var/named there are files for each of these entries... here is what they
say..

FILE: cbits.ca.hosts

$ttl 38400
cbits.ca. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
1062647668
10800
3600
604800
38400 )
cbits.ca. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
penguin.cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
cbits.ca. IN MX 10 penguin.cbits.ca
FILE: penguin.cbits.ca.hosts

$ttl 38400
penguin.cbits.ca. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
1062647732
10800
3600
604800
38400 )
penguin.cbits.ca. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
penguin.cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
cbits.ca. IN MX 10 penguin.cbits.ca
FILE: 66.11.182.5.rev

$ttl 38400
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
1062647695
10800
3600
604800
38400 )
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR penguin.cbits.ca.
Can someone point out the error of my ways. If you need more information,
just ask. Thanks! :-)





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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 20:11:08 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:11:08 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
Message-ID: <200309041611.08548.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 04 September 2003 14:55, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:

> network. Setting aside the DMZ issue for the time being, what, if any,
> advantage is there to running these services on machines behind the
> firewall? Is it just that if the firewall is compromised, the bad guy still
> has to crack the machine on the inside or is there something I am missing?

If the firewall is compromised (let's assume root compromise) then the cracker 
has full access to your entire internal network, to the Internet from your 
firewall and to the dmz (if any).  He can cover his tracks and spend days, 
weeks or months on the firewall gathering passwords, learning about your 
network, etc.

If a webserver is comprosed, and you've been smart enough to install it in a 
DMZ then the cracker has a much smaller and (probably) less interesting 
network to probe.  If the DMZ is switched then he'll not learn very much 
beyond the tasks that involve that webserver.  He might be able to launch 
attacks against other machines in the DMZ but hopefully you've hardened those 
sufficiently to make that difficult.  Very restrictive firewall rules should 
be able to make the webserver an uninteresting place for a cracker as well. A 
webserver machine for example could be configured so that it can only respond 
to inbound http requests, the cracker couldn't initiate any outbound 
connections (to the Internet) period.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 20:30:32 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 16:30:32 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda> 
	<5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0@localhost>
Message-ID: <1062707432.10379.2.camel@yoda>

On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 14:44, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am interested in one of the 802.11g access points. I have noticed that 
> access points are often more expensive than routers and they never seem to 
> go on sale. Can the routers be used as access points? In other words, is it 
> possible to disable the routing, dhcp, and firewall capabilities of the 
> routers, such as those from Linksys, D-Link, and SMC and use them strictly 
> as access points?
> 
> I use an old PC running Linux for firewalling, routing, and dchp and have 
> no  desire to change that. The plan is to add a third NIC to the Linux box, 
> run IPsec on it so that all wireless communications will be across IPsec 
> tunnels.

I've pondered the price discrepancy for a while, and I have yet to
figure out why the box with less features costs more.  I'm starting to
suspect a marketing ploy.  I have yet to setup a real firewall for this
location, so the router has come in handy.  It can be configured to act
just as an access point, though as mentioned previously, you may want to
just get a wireless card in that case.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 20:30:05 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:30:05 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <20030904151802.7f29ded6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
 <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
 <20030904151802.7f29ded6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904160846.01adf798@localhost>

At 03:18 PM 04/09/2003 -0400, Joe Hill wrote:
>On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 14:55:32 -0400
>CLIFFORD ILKAY <clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > Is it just that if the firewall is compromised, the bad guy still
> > has to crack the machine on the inside or is there something I am
> > missing?
>
>AFAIK, if the firewall is compromised, the "hacker" would still have to
>get root access on the hosts to do any real damage, but it would still
>be a Very Bad Thing.

I think you are alluding to what I said in my original message, that 
separating the services from the firewall is a layered approach to 
security. Perhaps another reason is that firewalls and servers may be on 
different upgrade cycles.

>It is *always* best to run *any* service behind a firewall that you want
>protected, particularly a firewall that does inspection of incoming and
>outgoing packets for things like spoofing, "man in the middle" attacks,
>syn floods (duh), etc. and yes, the fewer services open on the firewall
>the better.

Let us take a concrete example. Say we have Apache running on a host 
(192.168.0.10) on the LAN that must be accessible from the whole world. Our 
firewall and gateway, 192.168.0.1 on the inside interface, and 
123.123.123.123 (any resemblance to a real host is coincidental) on the 
outside interface, has to forward all requests to 123.123.123.123:80 to 
192.168.0.10:80 and send the packets from 192.168.0.10 back out through 
123.123.123.123 via 192.168.0.1. Packets are going to be inspected and all 
that good stuff on the firewall. What difference does it make if the Apache 
daemon is running on the firewall or on 192.168.0.10?

>The thing about a firewall is that the hosts behind it are (or are
>supposed to be) invisible, since their IPs are private and cannot be
>seen from the WAN, ie. 192.168.0.x.

If port 80 on the firewall is forwarded to a host with a private IP on the 
LAN, it can be seen from the WAN. That is whole point of port forwarding, 
is it not?

>You want a firewall that does port forwarding, network address
>translation, and stateful traffic inspection (IIRC).

Right, but that does not address the question of why it is good practice to 
run only firewall and routing services on the firewall instead of running 
httpd, etc. Running a bunch of services on the firewall does not preclude 
one from having all that good stuff you listed.

>If you have a spare box around there are several easy sol'ns, like
>ClarkConnect, BBIAgent (runs off a floppy) or Smoothwall.

ClarkConnect, like Mitel SME Server (formerly known as e-smith), runs 
services like pop, imap, smb, netatalk, http on the firewall. I do not know 
anything about BBIAgent but being floppy based, it probably is very lean 
and mean. I know SmoothWall does strictly firewalling and routing.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 20:43:12 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:43:12 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <200309041501.38139.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0@localhost>
 <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda>
 <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0@localhost>
 <200309041501.38139.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904164214.02e5ec38@localhost>

At 03:01 PM 04/09/2003 -0400, Charly Baker wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am interested in one of the 802.11g access points. I have noticed that
> > access points are often more expensive than routers and they never seem to
> > go on sale. Can the routers be used as access points? In other words, is it
> > possible to disable the routing, dhcp, and firewall capabilities of the
> > routers, such as those from Linksys, D-Link, and SMC and use them strictly
> > as access points?
> >
> > I use an old PC running Linux for firewalling, routing, and dchp and have
> > no  desire to change that. The plan is to add a third NIC to the Linux box,
> > run IPsec on it so that all wireless communications will be across IPsec
> > tunnels.
> >
>  You could also just put a wireless card in your gateway and have it 
> function
>as an access point.  See:
>
>http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-wap.html?ca=dgr-lnxw03AccessPoint
>and
>http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2001/03/06/recipe.html

Thanks Charly. That looks interesting. I'll report back once I get around 
to doing it.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 20:55:20 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 16:55:20 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904160846.01adf798-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
	<5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
	<5.2.0.9.0.20030904160846.01adf798@localhost>
Message-ID: <20030904165520.5e390dfe.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 16:30:05 -0400
CLIFFORD ILKAY <clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> If port 80 on the firewall is forwarded to a host with a private IP on
> the LAN, it can be seen from the WAN. That is whole point of port
> forwarding, is it not?

But *only* port 80 can be "seen", and if you are not doing any server
side applications, all traffic is outbound anyway, like Fraser said.

> >You want a firewall that does port forwarding, network address
> >translation, and stateful traffic inspection (IIRC).
> 
> Right, but that does not address the question of why it is good
> practice to run only firewall and routing services on the firewall
> instead of running httpd, etc. Running a bunch of services on the
> firewall does not preclude one from having all that good stuff you
> listed.

Goes back to what you said about a "layered" defense, but point taken.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
He who despairs over an event is a coward, but he who holds hopes for
the human condition is a fool.
		-- Albert Camus
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 21:20:27 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 17:20:27 -0400
Subject: XP Printing to Samba
Message-ID: <1062710428.10379.7.camel@yoda>

Has anyone here tried printing from Windows XP Pro to Samba?

I've setup Samba on a box that will sucessfully print via CUPS to an
HP890c locally and via smbspool.  I can browse file shares from windows,
but connecting to a printer yiels "Unabla to Connect; Access Denied" or
worse, the jobs just simply timeout.  I've included my smb.conf below. 
Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/


-------------- next part --------------
#
# Sample configuration file for the Samba suite for Debian GNU/Linux.
#
# $Id: smb.conf,v 1.2.4.6 2002/03/13 18:56:16 peloy Exp $
#
# This is the main Samba configuration file. You should read the
# smb.conf(5) manual page in order to understand the options listed
# here. Samba has a huge number of configurable options most of which 
# are not shown in this example
#
# Any line which starts with a ; (semi-colon) or a # (hash) 
# is a comment and is ignored. In this example we will use a #
# for commentary and a ; for parts of the config file that you
# may wish to enable
#
# NOTE: Whenever you modify this file you should run the command
# "testparm" to check that you have not many any basic syntactic 
# errors. 
#

#======================= Global Settings =======================

[global]

# Change this for the workgroup/NT-domain name your Samba server will part of
   workgroup = WORKGROUP

# server string is the equivalent of the NT Description field
   server string = %h server (Samba %v)

# If you want to automatically load your printer list rather
# than setting them up individually then you'll need this
   load printers = yes

# You may wish to override the location of the printcap file
   printcap name = /etc/printcap.cups

# 'printing = cups' works nicely
   printing = cups

;   guest account = nobody
   invalid users = root

# This tells Samba to use a separate log file for each machine
# that connects
   log file = /var/log/samba/log.%m
   log level = 4

# Put a capping on the size of the log files (in Kb).
   max log size = 1000

# If you want Samba to log though syslog only then set the following
# parameter to 'yes'. Please note that logging through syslog in
# Samba is still experimental.
;   syslog only = no

# We want Samba to log a minimum amount of information to syslog. Everything
# should go to /var/log/samba/log.{smb,nmb} instead. If you want to log
# through syslog you should set the following parameter to something higher.
   syslog = 0

# "security = user" is always a good idea. This will require a Unix account
# in this server for every user accessing the server. See
# security_level.txt for details.
   security = user

# You may wish to use password encryption. Please read ENCRYPTION.txt,
# Win95.txt and WinNT.txt in the Samba documentation. Do not enable this
# option unless you have read those documents
   encrypt passwords = true

# Using the following line enables you to customise your configuration
# on a per machine basis. The %m gets replaced with the netbios name
# of the machine that is connecting
;   include = /home/samba/etc/smb.conf.%m

# Most people will find that this option gives better performance.
# See speed.txt and the manual pages for details
# You may want to add the following on a Linux system:
#         SO_RCVBUF=8192 SO_SNDBUF=8192
   socket options = TCP_NODELAY

# --- Browser Control Options ---

# Please _read_ BROWSING.txt and set the next four parameters according
# to your network setup. The defaults are specified below (commented
# out.) It's important that you read BROWSING.txt so you don't break
# browsing in your network!

# set local master to no if you don't want Samba to become a master
# browser on your network. Otherwise the normal election rules apply
;   local master = yes

# OS Level determines the precedence of this server in master browser
# elections. The default value should be reasonable
;   os level = 20

# Domain Master specifies Samba to be the Domain Master Browser. This
# allows Samba to collate browse lists between subnets. Don't use this
# if you already have a Windows NT domain controller doing this job
;   domain master = auto

# Preferred Master causes Samba to force a local browser election on startup
# and gives it a slightly higher chance of winning the election
;   preferred master = auto

# --- End of Browser Control Options ---

# Windows Internet Name Serving Support Section:
# WINS Support - Tells the NMBD component of Samba to enable it's WINS Server
;   wins support = no

# WINS Server - Tells the NMBD components of Samba to be a WINS Client
# Note: Samba can be either a WINS Server, or a WINS Client, but NOT both
;   wins server = w.x.y.z

# This will prevent nmbd to search for NetBIOS names through DNS.
   dns proxy = no

# What naming service and in what order should we use to resolve host names
# to IP addresses
;   name resolve order = lmhosts host wins bcast

# Name mangling options
;   preserve case = yes
;   short preserve case = yes

# This boolean parameter controlls whether Samba attempts to sync. the Unix
# password with the SMB password when the encrypted SMB password in the
# /etc/samba/smbpasswd file is changed.
;   unix password sync = false

# For Unix password sync. to work on a Debian GNU/Linux system, the following
# parameters must be set (thanks to Augustin Luton <aluton-/9twV6TOi72xVRyd49+oOQ at public.gmane.org> for
# sending the correct chat script for the passwd program in Debian Potato).
   passwd program = /usr/bin/passwd %u
   passwd chat = *Enter\snew\sUNIX\spassword:* %n\n *Retype\snew\sUNIX\spassword:* %n\n .

# This boolean controls whether PAM will be used for password changes
# when requested by an SMB client instead of the program listed in
# 'passwd program'. The default is 'no'.
;   pam password change = no

# The following parameter is useful only if you have the linpopup package
# installed. The samba maintainer and the linpopup maintainer are
# working to ease installation and configuration of linpopup and samba.
;   message command = /bin/sh -c '/usr/bin/linpopup "%f" "%m" %s; rm %s' &

   obey pam restrictions = yes

# Some defaults for winbind (make sure you're not using the ranges
# for something else.)
;   winbind uid = 10000-20000
;   winbind gid = 10000-20000
;   template shell = /bin/bash

#======================= Share Definitions =======================

[homes]
   comment = Home Directories
   browseable = no

# By default, the home directories are exported read-only. Change next
# parameter to 'yes' if you want to be able to write to them.
   writable = no

# File creation mask is set to 0700 for security reasons. If you want to
# create files with group=rw permissions, set next parameter to 0775.
   create mask = 0700

# Directory creation mask is set to 0700 for security reasons. If you want to
# create dirs. with group=rw permissions, set next parameter to 0775.
   directory mask = 0700

# Un-comment the following and create the netlogon directory for Domain Logons
# (you need to configure Samba to act as a domain controller too.)
;[netlogon]
;   comment = Network Logon Service
;   path = /home/samba/netlogon
;   guest ok = yes
;   writable = no
;   share modes = no

[printers]
   comment = All Printers
   browseable = no
;   path = /var/spool/cups
   path = /tmp
   printable = yes
   public = no
   writable = no
   create mode = 0700

# A sample share for sharing your CD-ROM with others.
;[cdrom]
;   comment = Samba server's CD-ROM
;   writable = no
;   locking = no
;   path = /cdrom
;   public = yes

# The next two parameters show how to auto-mount a CD-ROM when the
#	cdrom share is accesed. For this to work /etc/fstab must contain
#	an entry like this:
#
#       /dev/scd0   /cdrom  iso9660 defaults,noauto,ro,user   0 0
#
# The CD-ROM gets unmounted automatically after the connection to the
#
# If you don't want to use auto-mounting/unmounting make sure the CD
#	is mounted on /cdrom
#
;   preexec = /bin/mount /cdrom
;   postexec = /bin/umount /cdrom


From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 21:50:47 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:50:47 -0400
Subject: XP Printing to Samba
In-Reply-To: <1062710428.10379.7.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062710428.10379.7.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <3F57B3B7.5090509@truxtar.com>

Hi Kareem,

I have successfully set up samba to allow WinXP computers to print to a 
locally connected HP Deskjet 660C printer through CUPS.  I have included 
my complete smb.conf file with this message.

pay particular attention to:

	guest ok = yes
	security = SHARE
	encrypt passwords = yes
	dns proxy = no

Also check your workgroup name;  it seems to be the default.

You will also need to read the CUPS documentation about installing 
windows PostScript drivers. Try:
<http://127.0.0.1:631/sam.html#8_6>

Just for reference, I am running samba version:

Version 2.2.7a-security-rollup-fix

from Redhat9 RPMs.

Hope I helped :-)

Kareem Shehata wrote:
> Has anyone here tried printing from Windows XP Pro to Samba?
> 
> I've setup Samba on a box that will sucessfully print via CUPS to an
> HP890c locally and via smbspool.  I can browse file shares from windows,
> but connecting to a printer yiels "Unabla to Connect; Access Denied" or
> worse, the jobs just simply timeout.  I've included my smb.conf below. 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Kareem
> 

-- 
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
-------------- next part --------------
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 21:57:32 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:57:32 -0400
Subject: I'm back
In-Reply-To: <200309022247.49945.m-cahill-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309022247.49945.m-cahill@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F57B54C.7080602@rogers.com>

> Well, the cyber-lords at Rogers have allowed me into the list 
> again...nice to everyone is still posting well :)

Yeah, what the hell was going on there? It's like tlug dropped off the 
face of the earth, now I got 110 emails. Like fuck it was a problem on 
my end, I told them... useless droids.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 21:59:44 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:59:44 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda> <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F57B5D0.3030707@rogers.com>

CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I am interested in one of the 802.11g access points. I have noticed that 
> access points are often more expensive than routers and they never seem 
> to go on sale. Can the routers be used as access points? In other words, 
> is it possible to disable the routing, dhcp, and firewall capabilities 
> of the routers, such as those from Linksys, D-Link, and SMC and use them 
> strictly as access points?
> 
> I use an old PC running Linux for firewalling, routing, and dchp and 
> have no  desire to change that. The plan is to add a third NIC to the 
> Linux box, run IPsec on it so that all wireless communications will be 
> across IPsec tunnels.


I have wondered the same. As far as I know, the Wi-fi side is bridged to 
the local lan, so it could be used as an access point.  However, as with 
all wireless, you have to be careful with security.  One thing I had 
considered, was to put the wireless box between my main firewall and the 
Internet.  I'd then use a VPN, to get behind my main firewall and 
visitors could also use it, to access the net, but not have access to my 
network.  With the low cost of these devices, it wouldn't hurt too much 
to buy one to experiment with.

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 22:07:54 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 18:07:54 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <200309041501.38139.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda> <5.2.0.9.0.20030904143904.048694e0@localhost> <200309041501.38139.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
Message-ID: <3F57B7BA.20905@rogers.com>

Charly Baker wrote:
>>Hi,
>>
>>I am interested in one of the 802.11g access points. I have noticed that
>>access points are often more expensive than routers and they never seem to
>>go on sale. Can the routers be used as access points? In other words, is it
>>possible to disable the routing, dhcp, and firewall capabilities of the
>>routers, such as those from Linksys, D-Link, and SMC and use them strictly
>>as access points?
>>
>>I use an old PC running Linux for firewalling, routing, and dchp and have
>>no  desire to change that. The plan is to add a third NIC to the Linux box,
>>run IPsec on it so that all wireless communications will be across IPsec
>>tunnels.
>>
> 
>  You could also just put a wireless card in your gateway and have it function 
> as an access point.  See:
> 
> http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-wap.html?ca=dgr-lnxw03AccessPoint
> and 
> http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/2001/03/06/recipe.html

With the price of those wireless firewall/router boxes these days, a 
wireless card would be more expensive..



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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 22:19:31 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: 04 Sep 2003 18:19:31 -0400
Subject: Any Zaurus users here?
Message-ID: <1062713971.3806.7.camel@linux.local>

Looking into making the plunge, and puchasing a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 or
SL-5600.  Anyone have any experiences with these? Is the 5600 really
worth the extra $$$? 

But a linux based pda to replace my ailing palm pilot would be sweet ;)

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 22:07:44 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:07:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904160846.01adf798-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
        <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
        <5.2.0.9.0.20030904160846.01adf798@localhost>
Message-ID: <22552.216.138.194.32.1062713264.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>

<snip>
> Let us take a concrete example. Say we have Apache running on a host
> (192.168.0.10) on the LAN that must be accessible from the whole world.
> Our  firewall and gateway, 192.168.0.1 on the inside interface, and
> 123.123.123.123 (any resemblance to a real host is coincidental) on the
> outside interface, has to forward all requests to 123.123.123.123:80 to
> 192.168.0.10:80 and send the packets from 192.168.0.10 back out through
> 123.123.123.123 via 192.168.0.1. Packets are going to be inspected and
> all  that good stuff on the firewall. What difference does it make if
> the Apache  daemon is running on the firewall or on 192.168.0.10?

If one of the services gets punched, then it might create a hole to access
personal information on your LAN. I see a lot of servers on other lists
getting hacked after being careless and trying shortcuts. Don't be too
hasty to add your name to that list. :)

>>The thing about a firewall is that the hosts behind it are (or are
>> supposed to be) invisible, since their IPs are private and cannot be
>> seen from the WAN, ie. 192.168.0.x.
>
> If port 80 on the firewall is forwarded to a host with a private IP on
> the  LAN, it can be seen from the WAN. That is whole point of port
> forwarding,  is it not?

You can also run EXT_IF tcp port 80 on the firewall to tcp port 8080 (for
example) on the server. Or direct port 80 to one machine and 443 to
another from the firewall/router. Stateful packet inspection carries a
memory tax, and you should want it to run free and clear. Add in the
resource load of any IDE that you throw in later after paranoia sets in,
and it begins to make more sense cost-wise.

>>You want a firewall that does port forwarding, network address
>>translation, and stateful traffic inspection (IIRC).
>
> Right, but that does not address the question of why it is good practice
> to  run only firewall and routing services on the firewall instead of
> running  httpd, etc. Running a bunch of services on the firewall does
> not preclude  one from having all that good stuff you listed.

Well, for starters, you can run all those services right on the Interent
on an other-wise firewalled box, but not in a LAN setting and still be
secure.

For security, you might want to isolate publically accessible services
from privately accessible services (the world soesn't need to browse your
network). Every service running on the machine presents a security risk.

If the first line of defence is the firewalled machine running all
services, where you might be running a database with customer info, for
example, this would *_not_* be considered a best practices situation.

If you have the services running on the LAN, or better yet in a DMZ, then
you have the protection of the firewall and the protection of the server.
Both machines should be "hardened" and best to have the server isolated
from the LAN. A couple configuration changes and a few more lines to the
firewall script does it.

OTOH, if you just want to muck around with a home-based Internet server
and you're not too concerned about it getting hacked at this point, then
have at it, and enjoy. :)



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From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 22:42:11 2003
From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:42:11 -0400
Subject: Any Zaurus users here?
In-Reply-To: <1062713971.3806.7.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062713971.3806.7.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20030904224211.GA327@paip.net>

On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 06:19:31PM -0400, Jason Shein wrote:
> Looking into making the plunge, and puchasing a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 or
> SL-5600.  Anyone have any experiences with these? Is the 5600 really
> worth the extra $$$? 
> 
> But a linux based pda to replace my ailing palm pilot would be sweet ;)

I use the 5500.  (I can't say anything about the 5600; I've never seen
it.)

The built-in PIM (calendar, address, etc.) apps suck.  I've bought the
replacement apps from TheKompany, which suck less.  (I'm using DateBk4
for PalmOS, which is what I used to use, as a comparison.  That sucked
hardly at all.  PalmOS apps in general seem to be much better-written
from a UI point of view.)

But as a Linux box with 802.11b and a root prompt that I can wear on my
hip, it's fantastic.  :-)

   - Ian
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 02:46:02 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 22:46:02 -0400
Subject: My DNS Configuration
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9125@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I can see you now.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Jay [mailto:jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:41 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

nslookup 66.11.182.5

Server:         66.11.168.195
Address:        66.11.168.195#53

Non-authoritative answer:
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa        name = penguin.cbits.ca.

Authoritative answers can be found from:
182.11.66.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = ns.istop.com.
182.11.66.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = dci.doncaster.on.ca.
ns.istop.com    internet address = 66.11.168.199
dci.doncaster.on.ca     internet address = 66.11.168.194


nslookup penguin.cbits.ca

Server:         66.11.168.195
Address:        66.11.168.195#53

Non-authoritative answer:
Name:   penguin.cbits.ca
Address: 66.11.182.5


nslookup cbits.ca
;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached






----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Wil McGilvery" <wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:19 PM
Subject: RE: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration


I have tried looking up cbits.ca and I cannot find any reference to the
domain at all.

I also tried looking up cbits.ca with the servers listed in your message and
got nothing.

Your server appears to have port 53 open(66.11.182.5), but your domain is
not resolving.

What happens when you try Dig or NSlookup on the local machine?

Is your secondary server set up to get zone updates from your primary
server?

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc



416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406 FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


________________________________________
From: Jay [mailto:jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:53 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

That was to jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org The jay at cbits.ca don't do anything
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration

I should add I tested this from hotmail, trying to send myself an email and
this is what it said when it came back to my hotmail account..

This is the Postfix program at host penguin.cbits.ca.

####################################################################
# THIS IS A WARNING ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. #
####################################################################

Your message could not be delivered for 4.0 hours.
It will be retried until it is 5.0 days old.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

The Postfix program

<jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org>: Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
type=MX:
Host not found, try again

Reporting-MTA: dns; penguin.cbits.ca
Arrival-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)

Final-Recipient: rfc822; jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org
Action: delayed
Status: 4.0.0
Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
type=MX: Host not found, try again
Will-Retry-Until: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
----- Original Message ----- 
From: Jay
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration

Hi all,

I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few days. I
thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not. Here is all
my DNS information...

IP: 66.11.182.5
domain: cbits.ca
machine name: penguin.cbits.ca

Initially my IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com but I asked my ISP to change
that to penguin.cbits.ca. I have set up the nameservers where I registered
the domain to point to my machine and istops nameservers.

NS1 = penguin.cbits.ca
IP = 66.11.182.5

NS2 = ns.istop.com
IP = 66.11.168.199

I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just wanna
fix the DNS information on my box.

Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND
penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the
penguin.cbits.ca.?

key "key" {
algorithm hmac-md5;
secret
"Some key";
};

controls {
inet 127.0.0.1 allow { any; } keys { "key"; };
};

query-source address * port 53;
listen-on port 53 {
66.11.182.5;
};
listen-on port 53 {
192.168.0.1;
};
zone "." {
type hint;
file "named.ca";
};

zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "named.local";
};

zone "cbits.ca" {
type master;
file "/var/named/cbits.ca.hosts";
};

zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
type master;
file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
};

zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
type master;
file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
};

In /var/named there are files for each of these entries... here is what they
say..

FILE: cbits.ca.hosts

$ttl 38400
cbits.ca. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
1062647668
10800
3600
604800
38400 )
cbits.ca. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
penguin.cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
cbits.ca. IN MX 10 penguin.cbits.ca
FILE: penguin.cbits.ca.hosts

$ttl 38400
penguin.cbits.ca. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
1062647732
10800
3600
604800
38400 )
penguin.cbits.ca. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
penguin.cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
cbits.ca. IN MX 10 penguin.cbits.ca
FILE: 66.11.182.5.rev

$ttl 38400
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
1062647695
10800
3600
604800
38400 )
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR penguin.cbits.ca.
Can someone point out the error of my ways. If you need more information,
just ask. Thanks! :-)





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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 03:27:09 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 23:27:09 -0400
Subject: Pine and/or Sendmail outgoing mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000-m8/izrrhnI0lP0K0wFm6aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000@white.buynet.com>
Message-ID: <20030904232709.6b98447c.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 12:33:49 -0400 (EDT)
Herb Richter <hgr-FjoMob2a1F7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> 
> 
> I need to configure pine (and/or sendmail) to deliver outgoing mail to my
> ISP's smtp server rather than directly to the recipient's mail server.
> (I'm getting tired of having my email to users at aol.com etc being spam
> filtered because the mail originates from a dynamic IP)

Herb,

   Try searching the Red Hat website.  There are notes on there on how to make you local sendmail point to your ISP's mail server.  A search on sendmail probably will reveal it.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 03:39:40 2003
From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 23:39:40 -0400
Subject: showfont and xfs -droppriv
Message-ID: <3F58057C.E862E3F@qef.com>

Apologies for reposting, but I didn't authorize my subscription
until recently so may have missed any answers (I'm an optimist).

A request for help w.r.t. showfont

When I try:

	showfont -fn 6x13

I get:

	can't open server "localhost:7100"

xfs is running. xlsfonts and xselfont appear to work.

xfs is running with the -droppriv flag and the config file
contains "no-listen = tcp" which I assume may be part of the
problem.

The question is, can I use showfont with this configuration?

Do I have to turn off the security measures (i.e., remove the
-droppriv flag and the no-listen=tcp) or is there a less
malignant work-around?

-- dt
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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 05:07:59 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 01:07:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: My DNS Configuration
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9125-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9125@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <36830.66.11.182.5.1062738479.squirrel@cbits.ca>

I think it was a problem with the firewall and eth0 and ppp0. I switched
Distros and it worked.

Thanks

> I can see you now.
>
> Regards,
>
> Wil McGilvery
> Manager
> Lynch Digital Media Inc
>
>
>
> 416-744-7949
> 416-716-3964 (cell)
> 1-866-314-4678
> 416-744-0406  FAX
> www.LynchDigital.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jay [mailto:jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 3:41 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>
> nslookup 66.11.182.5
>
> Server:         66.11.168.195
> Address:        66.11.168.195#53
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> 5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa        name = penguin.cbits.ca.
>
> Authoritative answers can be found from:
> 182.11.66.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = ns.istop.com.
> 182.11.66.in-addr.arpa  nameserver = dci.doncaster.on.ca.
> ns.istop.com    internet address = 66.11.168.199
> dci.doncaster.on.ca     internet address = 66.11.168.194
>
>
> nslookup penguin.cbits.ca
>
> Server:         66.11.168.195
> Address:        66.11.168.195#53
>
> Non-authoritative answer:
> Name:   penguin.cbits.ca
> Address: 66.11.182.5
>
>
> nslookup cbits.ca
> ;; connection timed out; no servers could be reached
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Wil McGilvery" <wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:19 PM
> Subject: RE: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration
>
>
> I have tried looking up cbits.ca and I cannot find any reference to the
> domain at all.
>
> I also tried looking up cbits.ca with the servers listed in your message
> and
> got nothing.
>
> Your server appears to have port 53 open(66.11.182.5), but your domain is
> not resolving.
>
> What happens when you try Dig or NSlookup on the local machine?
>
> Is your secondary server set up to get zone updates from your primary
> server?
>
> Regards,
>
> Wil McGilvery
> Manager
> Lynch Digital Media Inc
>
>
>
> 416-744-7949
> 416-716-3964 (cell)
> 1-866-314-4678
> 416-744-0406 FAX
> www.LynchDigital.com
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Jay [mailto:jay-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:53 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>
> That was to jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org The jay at cbits.ca don't do anything
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jay
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration
>
> I should add I tested this from hotmail, trying to send myself an email
> and
> this is what it said when it came back to my hotmail account..
>
> This is the Postfix program at host penguin.cbits.ca.
>
> ####################################################################
> # THIS IS A WARNING ONLY. YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE. #
> ####################################################################
>
> Your message could not be delivered for 4.0 hours.
> It will be retried until it is 5.0 days old.
>
> For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>
>
> The Postfix program
>
> <jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org>: Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
> type=MX:
> Host not found, try again
>
> Reporting-MTA: dns; penguin.cbits.ca
> Arrival-Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
>
> Final-Recipient: rfc822; jay-ZsETY1VsSgJk+ew2QeQWOQ at public.gmane.org
> Action: delayed
> Status: 4.0.0
> Diagnostic-Code: X-Postfix; Name service error for name=penguin.cbits.ca
> type=MX: Host not found, try again
> Will-Retry-Until: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 03:11:17 -0400 (EDT)
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jay
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 12:47 PM
> Subject: [TLUG]: My DNS Configuration
>
> Hi all,
>
> I set up my DNS and have let it propagate around the world for a few days.
> I
> thought I had set up my MX records correctly but apparently not. Here is
> all
> my DNS information...
>
> IP: 66.11.182.5
> domain: cbits.ca
> machine name: penguin.cbits.ca
>
> Initially my IP resolved to jay.tor.istop.com but I asked my ISP to change
> that to penguin.cbits.ca. I have set up the nameservers where I registered
> the domain to point to my machine and istops nameservers.
>
> NS1 = penguin.cbits.ca
> IP = 66.11.182.5
>
> NS2 = ns.istop.com
> IP = 66.11.168.199
>
> I'm going to change the second one to everydns.net but for now I just
> wanna
> fix the DNS information on my box.
>
> Here is my named.conf file. I have put an entry for both cbits.ca AND
> penguin.cbits.ca. Is this necessary or can I get rid of the
> penguin.cbits.ca.?
>
> key "key" {
> algorithm hmac-md5;
> secret
> "Some key";
> };
>
> controls {
> inet 127.0.0.1 allow { any; } keys { "key"; };
> };
>
> query-source address * port 53;
> listen-on port 53 {
> 66.11.182.5;
> };
> listen-on port 53 {
> 192.168.0.1;
> };
> zone "." {
> type hint;
> file "named.ca";
> };
>
> zone "0.0.127.in-addr.arpa" {
> type master;
> file "named.local";
> };
>
> zone "cbits.ca" {
> type master;
> file "/var/named/cbits.ca.hosts";
> };
>
> zone "5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa" {
> type master;
> file "/var/named/66.11.182.5.rev";
> };
>
> zone "penguin.cbits.ca" {
> type master;
> file "/var/named/penguin.cbits.ca.hosts";
> };
>
> In /var/named there are files for each of these entries... here is what
> they
> say..
>
> FILE: cbits.ca.hosts
>
> $ttl 38400
> cbits.ca. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
> 1062647668
> 10800
> 3600
> 604800
> 38400 )
> cbits.ca. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
> cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
> penguin.cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
> cbits.ca. IN MX 10 penguin.cbits.ca
> FILE: penguin.cbits.ca.hosts
>
> $ttl 38400
> penguin.cbits.ca. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
> 1062647732
> 10800
> 3600
> 604800
> 38400 )
> penguin.cbits.ca. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
> penguin.cbits.ca. IN A 66.11.182.5
> cbits.ca. IN MX 10 penguin.cbits.ca
> FILE: 66.11.182.5.rev
>
> $ttl 38400
> 5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN SOA penguin.cbits.ca. jay.cbits.ca. (
> 1062647695
> 10800
> 3600
> 604800
> 38400 )
> 5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN NS penguin.cbits.ca.
> 5.182.11.66.in-addr.arpa. IN PTR penguin.cbits.ca.
> Can someone point out the error of my ways. If you need more information,
> just ask. Thanks! :-)
>
>
>
>
>
> --
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>
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>

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From mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 05:44:11 2003
From: mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (MERC)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 01:44:11 -0400
Subject: Any Zaurus users here?
References: <1062713971.3806.7.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <3F5822AB.9030000@rogers.com>

Hi!

The 5500 comes shipped with ROM 2.38. You can download ROM 3.1 which is 
the same one that the 5600 uses.
After doing it, basically you will have a 5600 without some extra 
hardware features like the built-in speakers, but depending on the use 
you will be giving the Zaurus, you may agree that these ones are not 
worth the  extra price . Check the details here : 
http://www.myzaurus.com/ROMupdate5.asp

A lot of people is replacing these ROMs with Opie's OpenZaurus, which 
looks and feels great according to the reviews I've seen. Check it at 
http://www.opie.us/   and  http://www.openzaurus.org

The Zaurus is an amazing little Linux box.  In mine, I have an Apache + 
PHP web server running with MySQL (yes, everything is installed there).  
BusyBox, ' the Swiss Knife of Embedded Linux'  allows you to use  most 
GNU utilities in the Zaurus command line, so you won't miss your usual 
desktop (http://www.busybox.net/). You can check the impressive array of 
utilities available for the Z at http://www.killefiz.de/zaurus/

Some of us are in the Toronto Zaurus user group forum 
(www.zaurususergroup.com) it is a recently created community and so far 
we have around five registered users.

Regards





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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 09:45:59 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 05:45:59 -0400
Subject: Pine and/or Sendmail outgoing mail
In-Reply-To: <20030904232709.6b98447c.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000@white.buynet.com>
	<20030904232709.6b98447c.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20030905054559.5609579e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 4 Sep 2003 23:27:09 -0400
Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

>    Try searching the Red Hat website.  There are notes on there on how
>    to make you local sendmail point to your ISP's mail server.  A
>    search on sendmail probably will reveal it.

with Postfix it's dead simple:

from /etc/postfix/main.cf

# INTERNET OR INTRANET

# The relayhost parameter specifies the default host to send mail to
# when no entry is matched in the optional transport(5) table. When
# no relayhost is given, mail is routed directly to the destination.
# 
# On an intranet, specify the organizational domain name. If your
# internal DNS uses no MX records, specify the name of the intranet
# gateway host instead.
# 
# In the case of SMTP, specify a domain, host, host:port, [host]:port,
# [address] or [address]:port; the form [host] turns off MX lookups.
# 
# If you're connected via UUCP, see also the default_transport
# parameter.
# 
#relayhost = $mydomain
#relayhost = gateway.my.domain
#relayhost = uucphost
relayhost = [address of ISP smtp]

but I like Keith's idea of a nice light thang if that's all yer usin' it
fer...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations.
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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 12:31:15 2003
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 08:31:15 -0400
Subject: More on Dell and licenses
References: <200309031613.26756.mggagne@salmar.com>
Message-ID: <003601c373a9$99ca8700$4127fea9@middleearth.quadratic.net>

check it out.

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=7040


It's not free. You pay in the end.

david

----- Original Message -----
From: "Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne" <mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 4:13 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: More on Dell and licenses



Hello everyone,

Every few days, I get these wonderful special offers from Dell via my fax
line
(I never gave them or anyone the number, but fax offers from various
companies come nonetheless).  After reading all the Dell and Windows refund
posts, I decided to see what happened if you went through the "I don't want
Windows installed" process BEFORE you bought a system.  In other words, no
question of refunds -- you just don't buy it first and ask later.

Anyhow, the young lady was friendly and helpful, but she was also totally
confused when I suggested that I wanted to purchase the machine without
Windows (the deal really is a good deal and I could use a test machine).
She
explained that all computers come with Windows and I very nicely explained
that while this was indeed the most common scenario, it wasn't the only one.
When she asked me how I would use the computer, I told her I would run Linux
instead.  She then asked me if I would then like to have Linux installed and
I said "Yes".  Wow, I thought . . . could it be so simple?

No.  She told me that she had to confirm this with her manager and asked me
to
hold for a moment.  When she came back, she told me that her manager had
told
her that all I had to do was forget the Windows installation and install
Linux instead since they could not (or would not) install Linux for me.
Fine, I told her.  I can do that.  Will you offer me a discount for not
getting Windows?   Again a chat with the manager.  She came back and told me
that they could not do that since all PCs come with Windows -- all I had to
do was erase it.  Surely, I said, there is some cost involved in a copy of
Windows XP (home edition), WordPerfect, and Quicken.  Again, a chat with the
manager.  No, he told her, there is no cost.  All the software is FREE, so
no
discount is possible because it doesn't cost anything to begin with.

The implications of the word FREE here are a powder keg waiting for a match.
I chose not to persue it any further and told her I would think about it.
The PC is $499 for a 2.2 Gig Celeron with 128 meg RAM, 40 Gig HD, a 17 inch
monitor, integrated ethernet and sound -- still a good deal.

Later, eh.

--
Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn?
Note:  This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered.
Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/
Author : "Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!"
   Also by Marcel : Linux System Administration, A User's Guide
Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.salmar.com/marcel/wftllugform.html

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From btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 13:12:24 2003
From: btraynor-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (bill traynor)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 09:12:24 -0400
Subject: IBM's Linux ad
Message-ID: <3F588BB8.20201@linux.ca>

http://www-3.ibm.com/e-business/doc/content/lp/prodigy.html



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From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 14:38:18 2003
From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:38:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: More on Dell and licenses
In-Reply-To: <200309031613.26756.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309031613.26756.mggagne@salmar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309051012520.27463-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>


On Wed, 3 Sep 2003, Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne wrote:

> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> Every few days, I get these wonderful special offers from Dell via my fax line 
> (I never gave them or anyone the number, but fax offers from various 
> companies come nonetheless).  After reading all the Dell and Windows refund 

Oh... is Dell the business that does that?  I (used to?) get fax-squealing 
phone calls or messages pretty routinely.  The phone number of the caller 
was screened, so I couldn't do much about it.

> posts, I decided to see what happened if you went through the "I don't want 
> Windows installed" process BEFORE you bought a system.  In other words, no 
> question of refunds -- you just don't buy it first and ask later.

<snip>

> The implications of the word FREE here are a powder keg waiting for a match.  
> I chose not to persue it any further and told her I would think about it.   

I think the thing to do now is to summarize this conversation (with names 
and/or badge numbers of the employees) and put it into written form so 
that the Chief Executive Officer is made aware of what his employees are 
doing.  You should ask him to define "FREE" for you in this context.  

Ask the CEO in your letter to define the contract of sale.  

Use of telephony allows his employees not to make written contracts.

Telephone vendors use this to coerce you to accept goods as is defined 
to their advantage.  If you accept the goods, it becomes difficult for you 
to plead... you must use a similar method to the linuxjournal article.




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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 15:06:50 2003
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 11:06:50 -0400
Subject: showfont and xfs -droppriv
In-Reply-To: <3F58057C.E862E3F-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org>; from dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org on Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 11:39:40PM -0400
References: <3F58057C.E862E3F@qef.com>
Message-ID: <20030905110650.E6785@leftmind.net>

David Tilbrook wrote:
> Apologies for reposting, but I didn't authorize my subscription
> until recently so may have missed any answers (I'm an optimist).

The list sets Reply-To: (which I'm overriding at the moment), so you
wouldn't have seen replies if you weren't subscribed.  I don't recall
previously seeing your question, though, so there may also be an
nonsubscriber embargo.

> When I try:
> 
> 	showfont -fn 6x13
> 
> I get:
> 
> 	can't open server "localhost:7100"

It's attempting a TCP connection to 127.0.0.1:7100, but xfs isn't
listening there.  It is listening on a Unix-domain socket, and that's
what we want to get at.  A bit of a look finds /tmp/.font-unix/fs7100
to be the probable socket.  I get output if I try:

	showfont -server :7100 -fn 6x13

It would be nice if it parsed $DISPLAY and defaulted to going to the
same place (mine is ":0.0", which tells X clients to use a Unix-domain
socket to get at the X server).

FWIW, I start my X server with -nolisten tcp, so it's not listening on
port 6000 either.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 15:16:32 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:16:32 +0300
Subject: IBM's Linux ad
Message-ID: <BAY2-F44bg2GDgkwLd80000579e@hotmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/attachments/20030905/6a75592e/attachment.html>

From adamherst-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 15:53:28 2003
From: adamherst-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Adam Herst)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:53:28 -0400
Subject: Any Zaurus users here?
In-Reply-To: <3F5822AB.9030000-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062713971.3806.7.camel@linux.local> <3F5822AB.9030000@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F58B178.9070903@sympatico.ca>

Where in Toronto can one buy a Zaurus? I haven't had any luck finding a 
dealer.

Thanks,

Adam

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From mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 16:06:00 2003
From: mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Miguel Reategui)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:06:00 +0000
Subject: Any Zaurus users here?
Message-ID: <20030905160600.YUQN165573.fep04-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>

I almost sure there is no official dealers for the Zaurus in Toronto. You'll have to buy online from a USA company or, try Ebay. I got mine from ebay.ca : $299 USD (seller price)  + CDN 72.00 (customs). It took four days to arrive from Singapur.
I think they might be a lot cheaper now....
Regards
> 
> From: Adam Herst <adamherst-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/09/05 Fri PM 03:53:28 GMT
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Any Zaurus users here?
> 
> Where in Toronto can one buy a Zaurus? I haven't had any luck finding a 
> dealer.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Adam
> 
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 16:12:48 2003
From: tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org (Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 12:12:48 -0400
Subject: Debian and KDE?
Message-ID: <E19vJCa-0007Xd-00@cage.robertsearle.com>

Hi,
  I was wondering why KDE 3.1 isn't part
of the testing branch of debian.  The
only old 2.2 is there!
It seems that debian is falling behind
on verisions a couple of years old.
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 17:44:20 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:44:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
Message-ID: <62366.64.228.103.50.1062783860.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Hi,
>
> Security conscious system administrators seem to favour running as few
> services on the firewall as possible and prefer to put things like http,
>  smb, smtp, pop, etc. on boxes in a DMZ or behind the firewall. I guess
> the  theory is the more services that are run on the firewall, the
> greater the  points of vulnerability, but, if one must allow access to
> http, smtp, and  pop from the outside world, one still has to open those
> ports on the  firewall and forward them to the appropriate machines on
> the inside  network. Setting aside the DMZ issue for the time being,
> what, if any,  advantage is there to running these services on machines
> behind the  firewall? Is it just that if the firewall is compromised,
> the bad guy still  has to crack the machine on the inside or is there
> something I am missing?

If the bad guy can crack into one of the services that is running as root,
then he also has access to all the firewall information too. He can change
the scripts to allow access into any of the machines, not only the server.
If all traffic for a specific service is forwarded to another machine,
then it's the internal machine and not the firewall that he has access to.



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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 18:02:43 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:02:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Debian and KDE?
In-Reply-To: <E19vJCa-0007Xd-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E19vJCa-0007Xd-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309051401410.23241@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Mailing List wrote:

> Hi,
>   I was wondering why KDE 3.1 isn't part
> of the testing branch of debian.  The
> only old 2.2 is there!
> It seems that debian is falling behind
> on verisions a couple of years old.

I pushed a box from Debian Testing to a combination of Testing/Unstable
(but didn't do a dist-upgrade) and I now have KDE 3.1 working fine. The
box is no less stable than it was (it's only a workstation though so I
don't care _too_ much :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 18:31:54 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 14:31:54 -0400
Subject: Debian and KDE?
In-Reply-To: <E19vJCa-0007Xd-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E19vJCa-0007Xd-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <200309051431.54464.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 05 September 2003 12:12, Mailing List wrote:

>   I was wondering why KDE 3.1 isn't part
> of the testing branch of debian.  The
> only old 2.2 is there!

Well there's a mixture of 2.2 and 3.1.x packages but you're probably correct 
that 3.1.3 isn't installable ... see package list at  
http://packages.debian.org/testing/kde/ if you haven't already.

I'm a bit surprised that it's still not fully there.  They transititioned to a 
new version of gcc (or was it libc) that is binary incompatible with previous 
version ... since Debian generates packages for over a dozen architectures 
many compiler and library bugs crop up that need to be worked on.  If app xyz 
won't compile on the arm architecture (for example) it may take quite a while 
for the newer libraries to get into testing (since all apps must compile 
against the new library before the transition can be complete).

That explanation might not make any sense, it might be wrong as well ;-)

> It seems that debian is falling behind
> on verisions a couple of years old.

The Debian project is huge, it builds a lot of software on different 
architectures that nobody else is doing (XFree86, as one example, seems to 
have most of it's portability issues worked out by Debian developors).

If you want the latest and greatest of everything then I think you should be 
running unstable Debian or choose a distribution that throws out releases 
with each phase change of the moon.

If you really like Debian (I do) then you can always hunt around and find 
those few apps that aren't quite up to the level you would like.  I run 
stable Debian on all of my desktops (well there's only 2).  I have KDE 3.1.3, 
mozilla 1.4, Openoffice (1.0.3 and 1.1beta) and a few other key desktop apps 
installed as Debian packages, perfectly integrated with my stable Debian 
installation ... you just have to know where to look.

A decent place to hunt for apps is http://www.apt-get.org/ another is just 
searching the Debian mailing lists.  KDE can be downloaded in Debian package 
format from www.kde.org ... I've had a few recent stable KDE releases 
installed before they were even announced.

Here's my /etc/apt/sources.list if you're interested ...

# Woody binaries
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ woody main non-free contrib
deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US woody/non-US main contrib non-free

# unstable binaries
# deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
# deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US unstable/non-US main contrib 
non-fr
ee

# Woody security updates
deb http://security.debian.org/ woody/updates main

# Latest KDE
deb http://download.kde.org/stable/3.1.3/Debian/ woody main

# Koffice for woody
deb http://download.kde.org/stable/koffice-1.2.1/Debian/woody/ ./

# Openoffice.org binaries
deb http://ftp.freenet.de/pub/ftp.vpn-junkies.de/openoffice/ woody main \
     contrib

# JDK
deb ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/linux/devel/lang/java/blackdown.org/debian \
    woody main non-free

# Mozilla backport
deb http://debian.relativ.org/ ./

# Mplayer
deb http://marillat.free.fr/ stable main

# Zope backport to woody
# deb http://ftp.dzug.org/Zope/woody/mschopen/ zope/

# selinux
# deb http://www.microcomaustralia.com.au/debian/ woody selinux

# Some stuff, bogofilter
# deb http://debian.ipsyn.net/debian woody ipsyn

# Bittorrent
# deb http://orkz.mine.nu/debs/ ./

# Subversion for woody
deb http://people.debian.org/~cjwatson/subversion-woody ./

# Proposed updates (not to be used normally)
# deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ proposed-updates main non-free contrib
# deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US proposed-updates/non-US main \
    contrib non-free

# Unstable sources
# deb-src http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main non-free contrib
# deb http://http.us.debian.org/debian unstable main non-free contrib

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 18:38:16 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 21:38:16 +0300
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
Message-ID: <BAY2-F105I9OjHSqTOQ000008c8@hotmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/attachments/20030905/aee3fc64/attachment.html>

From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 19:13:52 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:13:52 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Linux in RAM
In-Reply-To: <3F57633A.4050400-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052213200.554@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 4 Sep 2003, Dave Stubbs wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Wondering if anyone has been able to get something like this going
> before....
>
> I'm looking to build a shock-proof portable Linux

Slackware Linux ran w/o swapping in 8MB ram and with a cf card for booting
it's all silicon.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 19:16:27 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:16:27 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Pine and/or Sendmail outgoing mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000-m8/izrrhnI0lP0K0wFm6aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309041153590.20269-100000@white.buynet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052215450.554@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Type whereis pine and edit the relevant config file (system-wide). If you
are the only user unset the smtp-server option. Then it will allow you to
set it in the user's config.

Peter
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 19:29:13 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 15:29:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Any Zaurus users here?
In-Reply-To: <1062713971.3806.7.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062713971.3806.7.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309051502360.17694-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Jason Shein <jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>

| Looking into making the plunge, and puchasing a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 or
| SL-5600.  Anyone have any experiences with these? Is the 5600 really
| worth the extra $$$? 
| 
| But a linux based pda to replace my ailing palm pilot would be sweet ;)

I have a 5500.  They were end-of-lined by Sharp and dumped through
Home Shopping Network and Tiger Direct for US$200 earlier this year.
I bought a couple through tigerdirect.ca; I think that they are all
gone now.

I don't need a PDA so I haven't tried to use it as such.  I bought it
to be an amazingly small and portable LINUX box.

I think of it as a toy (this is not meant as an insult).  I did find
it to be a good laptop replacement for picking up email.  Awkward for
email, but far easier to carry.  I used it this way at OLS.

I would rather have had one of the new Japan-only origami clamshell
models.  Successors to the C700.
- 4 times the screen pixels (640x480)
- better keyboard
- more SDRAM (128M)
- twice the CPU power (maybe)
Apparently OpenZaurus will work on this hardware, so there need not
be a language barrier to using it.

I didn't like the idea of the 5600.  It has half the SDRAM of the 5500
(32M vs 64M).  Flash can be supplied externally, but RAM cannot.

The XScale at 400MHz initially disappointed people.  It wasn't
significantly faster than the StrongArm at 200MHz.  There was
apparently some problem with memory access that may have been fixed in
later steppings (i.e. a chip problem).

I'm not sure that the Zaurus market is healthy.  Fewer US stores carry
it.  It may no longer be available in Europe.  There is talk about
vertical applications.

I think that the 5500 was a steal at the C$300 I paid.  Then I doubled
this buying SD flash, CF flash, and CF 802.11b :-)

I like the fact that it has SD and CF slots and keyboard built in.  I
would like a speaker.  I would like it to be able to be a USB master,
not just slave (not sure the official terminology).  Batteries are
always an issue with PDAs.

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 19:29:04 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 22:29:04 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052225550.554@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Consider that the firewall severely limits the available ports to the
outside and that most exploits seem to rely on opening a shell or telnet
or whatever to the exploited machine on another port. This will not be
possible with a machine behind a proper firewall, which will deny the
'other' port. So whoever breaks in must be much smarter than average to
use his exploit.

Peter
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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 19:30:37 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:30:37 -0400
Subject: Multimedia Supplement for Redhat 9.0
Message-ID: <3F58E45D.70301@rogers.com>


http://media4redhat.frontspace.org

This is something i use internally to add multimedia support to my linux 
boxes. It may not be usefull for everyone, but it should allow you to 
get some amount of video support out of a red hat linux 9.0 installation.

I'll update the site as the file is updated internally.

regards,
Kerry


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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 20:04:14 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 16:04:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: More on Dell and licenses
In-Reply-To: <200309031613.26756.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309031613.26756.mggagne@salmar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309051534500.17694-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: "Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne" <mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

Thanks for posting your experiences.

| The implications of the word FREE here are a powder keg waiting for a
| match.

Yes!

I wonder what they actually pay for Windows.  Rumours suggest ~$20 but
I doubt that that is correct.  My guess that it is much less than the
~$150 that mom & pop stores have to pay.  This may be an important edge
that Dell has over the white box stores.  This may explain why they
want to encourage people to consider Windows a basic part of a system.

| I chose not to persue it any further and told her I would think about it.   
| The PC is $499 for a 2.2 Gig Celeron with 128 meg RAM, 40 Gig HD, a 17 inch 
| monitor, integrated ethernet and sound -- still a good deal.

You've fallen into their trap.

Their quoted price does not include the considerable shipping fee.

Why do I call this apparently-reasonable charge a trap?

- all their quoted prices exclude it, with a tiny footnote to warn you

- You cannot avoid paying the shipping.  I offered to pick up from
  their office and they refused.

- I would guess that they charge a fixed amount for shipping a
  particular package to the Toronto area so it would be easy to
  quote it in the Toronto-area ads.

- their main competitors (stores) don't charge shipping.

- I suspect that the charges are excessive given the volume they must
  ship here.

See if they'll trade the Windows license for shipping :-)

Do you know what they wanted to charge for shipping of the box and
monitor to the GTA?  They wanted something like $150 when I checked
some time ago.

Factory Direct will sell you a refurbished computer (looks like a
debranded HP) that seems like a better deal:
	Athlon XP2000, 256M, 40G, CD-RW: $377.77
A week or so ago they'd sell something similar (lower specs: XP1800,
128M) for $299.

See page 1 of paper flyer or upper right of page 2 of
	http://www.factorydirect.ca/WEB-COUPONS/flyer/flyer-082803.pdf


Windows XP Home and a 17" monitor makes it $599 (but might be a
different brand -- listed as Compaq).

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 19:35:51 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 15:35:51 -0400
Subject: The most recent meeting
In-Reply-To: <20030830145921.146354FCFC-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	 <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 10:59, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> Maybe we should have pointed out that non-commercial Linux software is
> mostly distributed in rpm or deb format and installed by way of package
> managers and therefore actually simpler than installing on Windows.  We
> could have, by way of contrast, demonstrated installing AbiWord or
> OpenOffice (from a local source) with Synaptic.

The question still remains, why would anyone want to install MS Office?
;-)

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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 20:29:20 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:29:20 -0400
Subject: The most recent meeting
In-Reply-To: <1062790550.1189.4.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca>	 <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F58F220.4070308@rogers.com>

Lloyd D Budd wrote:

> 
> The question still remains, why would anyone want to install MS Office?
> ;-)

we sometimes find pleasure in having teeth removed.


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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 20:32:23 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 16:32:23 -0400
Subject: Multimedia Supplement for Redhat 9.0
In-Reply-To: <3F58E45D.70301-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F58E45D.70301@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F58F2D7.1080404@codemonkeys.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 05/09/2003 15:30, Kerry Panchoo wrote:

| http://media4redhat.frontspace.org
|
| This is something i use internally to add multimedia support to my linux
| boxes. It may not be usefull for everyone, but it should allow you to
| get some amount of video support out of a red hat linux 9.0 installation.
|
| I'll update the site as the file is updated internally.

Talk about convenient...  Kudos, Kerry!
- --
Emir.

"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election
~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery,
~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices."             -- Andrew Orlowski
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/WPLWuSy542G+Z7QRApjDAKCrObWu+4A7U58q/fvJD/PXNrFeCACghBIH
3Peg5KkBgUwBLgOWYroXPUQ=
=wg8Q
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 20:42:24 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:42:24 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: News story has me laughing
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052340450.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=KHQKDLYZWY1AWCRBAEOCFEY?
type=technologyNews&storyID=3396436

(paste on 1 line). The last phrase of this article had me laughing in
tears.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 20:46:45 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:46:45 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: The most recent meeting
In-Reply-To: <1062790550.1189.4.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca> 
 <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
 <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Lloyd D Budd wrote:

> The question still remains, why would anyone want to install MS Office?

FYI some all-in-one boards from Taiwan come with two cds. One contains the
drivers for the board (incliding linux drivers) and the other contains an
edition of OpenOffice for Windows (the Linux version does not fit on the
same cd ?). I'm using it at work. Works great.

Peter
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 22:01:58 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 18:01:58 -0400
Subject: News story has me laughing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052340450.1272-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052340450.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F5907D6.8080505@rogers.com>

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=KHQKDLYZWY1AWCRBAEOCFEY?
> type=technologyNews&storyID=3396436

You can avoid the broken lines, by enclosing the URL in <>.



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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 22:00:18 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 18:00:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: News story has me laughing
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052340450.1272-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052340450.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <24140.216.138.194.32.1062799218.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=KHQKDLYZWY1AWCRBAEOC
> FEY?type=technologyNews&storyID=3396436
>
> (paste on 1 line). The last phrase of this article had me laughing in
> tears.

Great article. The only thing that got me is that M$ will show the code
under an NDA, Non-comp, whatever... so you can see the code, but can't do
anything about it that means anything. And they could never put it up for
a public code audit because all the little script kiddies would find
millions of vulnerabilities, and M$ would be in deep shite. Until they do
that, their code is suspect.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 23:03:17 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 02:03:17 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: News story has me laughing
In-Reply-To: <24140.216.138.194.32.1062799218.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052340450.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <24140.216.138.194.32.1062799218.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309060155020.2879@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


> Great article. The only thing that got me is that M$ will show the code
> under an NDA, Non-comp, whatever... so you can see the code, but can't do
> anything about it that means anything. And they could never put it up for
> a public code audit because all the little script kiddies would find
> millions of vulnerabilities, and M$ would be in deep shite. Until they do
> that, their code is suspect.

You mean, it isn't, now ? And the pace the script kiddies find holes at
now, without the source, is too slow for you ;-( ? <intended as a pun>

I believe that they will never release source openly because they have
calculated that they cannot afford to fix all the holes, ever. Open
sourced Windows would be a feast for evil dudes who would find and exploit
holes faster than the white hats fighting them. Remember all the Windows
holes found so far were fixed after they were publicly exploited at least
once. I think that one must resign to live on a swiss cheese kind of
foundation with Windows. Occasionally a hole caves in. Oops.

On Linux most holes are found in the beta process (of continous source
review by users) and get fixed before evil code is deployed. Of course
there are exceptions.

F.ex. postfix keeps being improved and there are regular patch rejects
from the author wrt patches that weaken the system. They appear before
anybody does any attacks on it. I find this very impressive.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 11:49:30 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 14:49:30 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Pine and/or Sendmail outgoing mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309052044250.23157-100000-m8/izrrhnI0lP0K0wFm6aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.33.0309052044250.23157-100000@white.buynet.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309061438280.562@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 5 Sep 2003, Herb Richter wrote:
> > Type whereis pine and edit the relevant config file (system-wide). If you
> > are the only user unset the smtp-server option. Then it will allow you to
> > set it in the user's config.
>
> I did try that ...well I tried the line: (in /etc/pine.conf)
> 	smtp-server=smtp.mtag.phub.net.cable.rogers.com
> ...this did have an effect so I know it is the active conf file for pine,
> but the result was the "relaying mail ... not allowed" messages (and no
> mail sent.)
>
> Is there some other parm that needs to be set?

There is more than 1 pine conf file that plays here, and all have to be
set right. Also Pine never relays so the relay message should come from
the smtp server. I just checked this using strings `which pine`|grep
relay. The word occurs only in the help file.

Did you set your domain in Pine to the correct one ? The pine manpage
lists a dozen or so files in the FILES section. Among them
/usr/local/lib/pine.conf.fixed and more. /etc/pine.conf is likely a link
to there. Please look at those files.

For 1-user conf you set most allowed options to unset (commented) in
*.conf and then you can set them in your .pinerc or such.

You can find out what files pine reads and in what order by doing (the
manpage is confusing about this):

(strace pine) 2>pine.strace

then with less view pine.strace and search for pine. In my case it opens:

~/.pinercex
/usr/local/lib/pine.conf
/home/plp/.pinerc

in this order. Good luck,

Peter

PS: if you only use pine as single user or want full config as user,
rename /usr/local/lib/pine.conf to /usr/local/lib/pine.conf.moved.
pinercex need not exist also.

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From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 21:52:52 2003
From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 17:52:52 -0400
Subject: XP Printing to Samba
In-Reply-To: <1062710428.10379.7.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062710428.10379.7.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <3F57B434.9050307@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>

Kareem Shehata wrote:

>Has anyone here tried printing from Windows XP Pro to Samba?
>
>I've setup Samba on a box that will sucessfully print via CUPS to an
>HP890c locally and via smbspool.  I can browse file shares from windows,
>but connecting to a printer yiels "Unabla to Connect; Access Denied" or
>worse, the jobs just simply timeout.  I've included my smb.conf below. 
>Any ideas?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>Kareem
>  
>
Kareem,

Have you done smbpasswd -a <username> for each user accessing the samba 
server?

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From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:11:24 2003
From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:11:24 -0400
Subject: SCO has valid case
In-Reply-To: <20030903135401.1aec9699.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030824015558.96263.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>	<lv7k4qgdwd.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>	<20030903104831.3e378ee1.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<200309031341.43419.fraser@wehave.net> <20030903135401.1aec9699.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F57642C.80007@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>

Joe Hill wrote:

>On Wed, 3 Sep 2003 13:41:43 -0400
>Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>  
>
>>The stock market is a game that you can win by betting on winners or
>>losers.  There's nothing dishonourable about betting on a loser, IMO.
>>    
>>
>
>Point taken, :-)
>  
>
Right,

All well and good of course, but to the Linux community, the real issue 
is not making a killing off a dying company.  Rather it is ensuring once 
and for all the the real UNIX IP is formally and completely given to the 
community, and forever removed from the threat of manipulation by some 
litigious greedy firm.

Dave...

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From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep  5 15:49:59 2003
From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs)
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2003 11:49:59 -0400
Subject: Any Zaurus users here?
In-Reply-To: <20030904224211.GA327-cOjNTMaGA5U@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062713971.3806.7.camel@linux.local> <20030904224211.GA327@paip.net>
Message-ID: <3F58B0A7.20503@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>

Ian wrote:

>On Thu, Sep 04, 2003 at 06:19:31PM -0400, Jason Shein wrote:
>  
>
>>Looking into making the plunge, and puchasing a Sharp Zaurus SL-5500 or
>>SL-5600.  Anyone have any experiences with these? Is the 5600 really
>>worth the extra $$$? 
>>
>>But a linux based pda to replace my ailing palm pilot would be sweet ;)
>>    
>>
>
>I use the 5500.  (I can't say anything about the 5600; I've never seen
>it.)
>
>The built-in PIM (calendar, address, etc.) apps suck.  I've bought the
>replacement apps from TheKompany, which suck less.  (I'm using DateBk4
>for PalmOS, which is what I used to use, as a comparison.  That sucked
>hardly at all.  PalmOS apps in general seem to be much better-written
>from a UI point of view.)
>
>But as a Linux box with 802.11b and a root prompt that I can wear on my
>hip, it's fantastic.  :-)
>  
>
I'd definitely second all that.  The Zaurus as a classic PDA is 
underwhelming at best.  I've found it useful for taking notes at times, 
but mostly as a nice hand-held kismet sniffer :-)

Dave...

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From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 19:18:53 2003
From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 15:18:53 -0400
Subject: Linux in RAM
In-Reply-To: <1062695825.26213.2.camel-C5Qn8pvFeXd9eUcvBT9MJMxtgHpCUUYS@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F57633A.4050400@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> <1062695825.26213.2.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <3F57901D.3000908@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>

Lloyd D Budd wrote:

>On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 12:07, Dave Stubbs wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm looking to build a shock-proof portable Linux
>>    
>>
>By shock-proof, you mean?
>  
>
Something either car-mounted, or belt-mounted.

What I'd like to see is one that boots up and loads everything over wlan 
(say, when I start my truck in the garage) and runs from RAM all day.  
It can be bumped and crashed around with no problem.  Should play MP3's, 
etc - basically a pretty complete system.  I've been playing a little 
with the rclinux file in the initrd image, and there is a possibility to 
really make this work.  The rclinux file from the knoppix cd is very 
interesting....



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From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep  4 16:12:54 2003
From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs)
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 2003 12:12:54 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <20030903200759.GT21637-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com> <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F576486.1010607@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

>On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:06:50PM -0400, Tom Legrady wrote:
>  
>
>>I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power failure 
>>since 1986? Not a web server!
>>
>>It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so 
>>important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose 
>>it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.
>>    
>>
>
>Was there ever ethernet slower than 10MBit?  10base2 and 10base-T are
>the first ethernets I have used.
>
>Lennart Sorensne
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>  
>
You'd have to go back to ArcNet before that...

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 13:27:15 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 16:27:15 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: View .DOC files with strings
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309061622050.1067@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


I have just tested a new way of formatting .DOC files for quick viewing.
It uses gawk to double each '\n' and groff for formatting. Very simple.
Minor garbage results that can be removed by hand or ignored. Tables will
not survive this conversion.

The command line is:

<document.doc gawk '{printf("%s\n\n",$0);next;}'|groff -man -Tascii >out.txt

groff does a good job of formatting the document even without escaping
what needs to be escaped. -man is optional (you can add your own
translation to chapters etc using more gawk rules). This simple script
works for us-ascii character sets.

Peter
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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 14:44:13 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 10:44:13 -0400
Subject: View .DOC files with strings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309061622050.1067-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309061622050.1067@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F59F2BD.1090704@sympatico.ca>

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> <document.doc gawk '{printf("%s\n\n",$0);next;}'|groff -man -Tascii >out.txt

you can do much the same with

  strings document.doc | fmt -s

Similar caveats apply.

Stewart

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 17:10:03 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 06 Sep 2003 13:10:03 -0400
Subject: XP Printing to Samba
In-Reply-To: <3F57B434.9050307-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <1062710428.10379.7.camel@yoda>
	 <3F57B434.9050307@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <1062868203.1138.1.camel@yoda>

On Thu, 2003-09-04 at 17:52, Dave Stubbs wrote:
> Kareem,
> 
> Have you done smbpasswd -a <username> for each user accessing the samba 
> server?

Yup.  

I can log in locally and from the XP machine into the user's home
folder  to share files, but I can't seem to get printing to work.

Kareem


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 19:04:32 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 15:04:32 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F576486.1010607-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com> <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F576486.1010607@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <3F5A2FC0.4020006@rogers.com>

Dave Stubbs wrote:
> Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
>> On Tue, Sep 02, 2003 at 11:06:50PM -0400, Tom Legrady wrote:
>>  
>>
>>> I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power 
>>> failure since 1986? Not a web server!
>>>
>>> It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so 
>>> important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose 
>>> it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.
>>>   
>>
>>
>> Was there ever ethernet slower than 10MBit?  10base2 and 10base-T are
>> the first ethernets I have used.
>>  
>>
> You'd have to go back to ArcNet before that...

The original speed for Ethernet was 2.94 Mb/s


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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 21:13:04 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 17:13:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Blue screens at Pearson
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000@tosh5100.net>

Just wanted to let everyone know that I saw two blue screens at Pearson 
airport (when I left the country), and just thought that it was funny.
Did anybody have similar experiences?

I wish I had a camera with me, since that picture would have been worth a 
thousand words. Shows how well Windows runs in the real world...

Seems like other places, like in Vienna, there was no trace of the "Start" 
button. Good for them, if they already switched. :)

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com

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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 21:50:15 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Sat, 06 Sep 2003 17:50:15 -0400
Subject: Blue screens at Pearson (whimsy)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030906175015.00737170@idirect.com>

At 17:13 2003-09-06 -0400, Teodor Iliescu <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> Just wanted to let everyone know that I saw two blue screens at Pearson 
> airport (when I left the country), and just thought that it was funny.
> Did anybody have similar experiences?

I think it is really nasty of you Linux guys to pick on Windows.
You say that Windows is always failing with blue screens.  As a
frequent Windows user, I want to tell you from personal
experience that it ain't necessarily so.  In fact, during my last
crash, just a few minutes ago, the screen was grey.

Terry.
Available for contract programming.

>
> I wish I had a camera with me, since that picture would have been worth a 
> thousand words. Shows how well Windows runs in the real world...
>
> Seems like other places, like in Vienna, there was no trace of the "Start" 
> button. Good for them, if they already switched. :)
>
> -- 
> Teodor I.
> http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 22:02:25 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Joe Hill)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 18:02:25 -0400
Subject: Blue screens at Pearson (whimsy)
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030906175015.00737170-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000@tosh5100.net>
	<3.0.3.32.20030906175015.00737170@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <20030906180225.1b45fb69.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 06 Sep 2003 17:50:15 -0400
Terrence Enger <tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I think it is really nasty of you Linux guys to pick on Windows.
> You say that Windows is always failing with blue screens.  As a
> frequent Windows user, I want to tell you from personal
> experience that it ain't necessarily so.  In fact, during my last
> crash, just a few minutes ago, the screen was grey.

:-D
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
You can never tell which way the train went by looking at the tracks.
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From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 01:29:53 2003
From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 21:29:53 -0400
Subject: Blue screens at Pearson
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <20030907012953.GA31226@paip.net>

On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 05:13:04PM -0400, Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> Just wanted to let everyone know that I saw two blue screens at Pearson 
> airport (when I left the country), and just thought that it was funny.
> Did anybody have similar experiences?

When I was at Sydney airport in December:

http://pix.paip.net/Travels/20021204/travel/slide.php?slide=3&mag=0

   - Ian
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From gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 03:09:41 2003
From: gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gregory Pleau)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:09:41 -0400
Subject: Blue screens at Pearson
Message-ID: <20030907031406.40B28FB2F1@gollum.gregorypleau.com>

Happened at Minneapolis/St. Paul in January. Got the extra treat of watching the reboot and the troubleshooting afterwards - all on the arrivals monitor! 

At one point they were running Windows update :-)

- Greg 

-----Original Message-----
   >From: "Ian Goldberg"<linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org>
   >Sent: 9/6/03 9:29:53 PM
   >To: "tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org"<tlug at ss.org>
   >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Blue screens at Pearson
     >On Sat, Sep 06, 2003 at 05:13:04PM -0400, Teodor Iliescu wrote:
   >> Just wanted to let everyone know that I saw two blue screens at Pearson 
   >> airport (when I left the country), and just thought that it was funny.
   >> Did anybody have similar experiences?
   >
   >When I was at Sydney airport in December:
   >
   >http://pix.paip.net/Travels/20021204/travel/slide.php?slide=3&mag=0
   >
   >   - Ian
   >--
   >The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
   >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
   >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
   >

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 03:37:45 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2003 23:37:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F576486.1010607-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
        <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>
        <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
        <3F576486.1010607@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
Message-ID: <29566.216.138.194.32.1062905865.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


>I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power
> failure  since 1986? Not a web server!
>
>It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so
> important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose
> it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.

FAA air traffic control system? I know it's mostly still running on old
tube machines, but no idea how long since the last reboot on some of the
dinosaurs. It probably isn't anythng connected to the public network, or
the outdated kernels would have been hacked all to hell by now.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From rgfranks-cmaem7PIVQT44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep  6 03:27:18 2003
From: rgfranks-cmaem7PIVQT44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Greg Franks)
Date: 05 Sep 2003 23:27:18 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <1062609253.7076.123.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>
	<1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com>

>>>>> "Kareem" == Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> writes:

    Kareem> On Wed, 2003-09-03 at 12:59, Stewart C.Russell wrote:
    >> I want to share my dsl connection wirelessly with an
    >> AirPort-equipped eMac. Are the Linksys, D-Link and SMC 802.11b
    >> offerings much of a muchness, or are there ones to avoid? Any
    >> particular easy to admin from a Linux box?
    >> 
    >> I don't need any faster than 11b, as that's all the eMac will
    >> do.
    >> 
    >> thanks, Stewart

    Kareem> I've had great success with a Linksys box, but then again
    Kareem> I'm using a Linksys card, and never tried it with a mac.
    Kareem> I've done all of the configuration through the web
    Kareem> interface, and pretty much tossed the CD's unused into the
    Kareem> trash (or my pack of unused install crap which is the same
    Kareem> thing).

The Linksys wireless router and WAP both work fine with mac's.  
-- 
   __@               Greg Franks              <|       _~@ __O 
 _`\<,_         Ottawa, Ontario, Canada        |O\   -^\<;^\<, 
(*)/ (*)                                       (*)--(*)%---/(*)
          "Where do you want to go today?"   Outside.  
--
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 05:57:18 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 01:57:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [OT] Great shots [was Blue screens at Pearson]
In-Reply-To: <20030907012953.GA31226-cOjNTMaGA5U@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000@tosh5100.net>
 <20030907012953.GA31226@paip.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309070149210.1072@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote:

> When I was at Sydney airport in December:
>
> http://pix.paip.net/Travels/20021204/travel/slide.php?slide=3&mag=0

That's a great shot :)

I went and had a look at some other shots in the collection and came to:

http://pix.paip.net/Travels/20021204/adelaide/slide.php?slide=4&mag=2

I remember that sculpture/object from when I was a 9 year old kid living
in Adelaide (21 years ago).  It's still looking pretty shiny :)

The artist who did this has made quite a few other large and interesing
works of art around Adelaide and other parts of Australia I believe.

Ah, David Jones in the background, do they still have the Christmas
displays in the windows?  These are a series of Christmas scenes done in
great detail by staff of David Jones (a department store) and volunteers.

Ok, back to Linux :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 12:00:34 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 08:00:34 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <m3n0diiokp.fsf-wSuJwSap1BMHuPwBo6/EyUEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>	<1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda> <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com>
Message-ID: <3F5B1DE2.2040403@rogers.com>

Greg Franks wrote:

> The Linksys wireless router and WAP both work fine with mac's.  


FWIW, Best Buy has an SMC 7004VWBR wireless router on sale at $89.00, 
until next Thursday and it comes with a $60 rebate from SMC.  If they're 
out of stock, you can get a rain cheque.  I picked one up on Friday and 
it works fine with Linux and lists Mac OS on the box.  However, these 
boxes tend to be OS neutral.  As long as you have a Java enabled 
browser, you can configure it.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 12:10:53 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 08:10:53 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <29566.216.138.194.32.1062905865.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>        <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>        <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>        <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>        <3F576486.1010607@penguin.8inchfloppy.com> <29566.216.138.194.32.1062905865.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F5B204D.9070602@rogers.com>

Keith Mastin wrote:
>>I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power
>>failure  since 1986? Not a web server!
>>
>>It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so
>>important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose
>>it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.
> 
> 
> FAA air traffic control system? I know it's mostly still running on old
> tube machines, but no idea how long since the last reboot on some of the
> dinosaurs. It probably isn't anythng connected to the public network, or
> the outdated kernels would have been hacked all to hell by now.
> 

How do you know that?  I had read quite a while ago, that they were 
still running some ancient radars in Canada, but they were being phased 
out, because of lack of parts.  A tube computer would date back to the 
mid fifties at the latest and wouln't be as powerful as a pocket 
calculator.  Tube computers were also extremely unreliable (I used to 
maintain & repair one in the Toronto Stock Exchange.) and not the kind 
of thing you'd want to trust someone's life to.


--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 16:46:15 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 12:46:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F5B204D.9070602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
        <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>
        <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
        <3F576486.1010607@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
        <29566.216.138.194.32.1062905865.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <3F5B204D.9070602@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <10255.216.138.194.32.1062953175.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Keith Mastin wrote:
>>>I wonder what server has been ruunning without a reboot or power
>>> failure  since 1986? Not a web server!
>>>
>>>It must be something important enough to continue running, but not so
>>> important it ever needed a faster CPU or larger hard drive. I suppose
>>> it's still running on 1Mbit coax ethernet.
>>
>>
>> FAA air traffic control system? I know it's mostly still running on
>> old tube machines, but no idea how long since the last reboot on some
>> of the dinosaurs. It probably isn't anythng connected to the public
>> network, or the outdated kernels would have been hacked all to hell by
>> now.
>>
>
> How do you know that?  I had read quite a while ago, that they were
> still running some ancient radars in Canada, but they were being phased
> out, because of lack of parts.  A tube computer would date back to the
> mid fifties at the latest and wouln't be as powerful as a pocket
> calculator.  Tube computers were also extremely unreliable (I used to
> maintain & repair one in the Toronto Stock Exchange.) and not the kind
> of thing you'd want to trust someone's life to.

I dunno if the FAA operates in Canada ;)

I picked up the bit of trivia on the radio one night (I know, I know).
Seems that the cost of replacing the entire system (which they would have
to apparently) is less than replacing the parts. IIRC, their supplier only
has one customer... them.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep  7 19:11:36 2003
From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 15:11:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: "Japan, China, South Korea to jointly study Windows contender" AFP
 03/09/02
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309071507430.12232-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>


Note instructions at end. It sounds like David Ticoll advised them.



   Tuesday, September 2, 2003
     _________________________________________________________________
   
       Japan, China, South Korea to jointly study Windows contender 
   
                            TOKYO, Sept 1 (AFP)
   
   Japan, China and South Korea are likely to agree soon they will
   jointly study computer operating systems to give consumers other
   options than the dominant Windows by Microsoft, an official said
   today.
   Japan's Trade and Industry Minister Takeo Hiranuma is to propose the
   study on open-source operating systems when he meets his Chinese and
   South Korean counterparts in Cambodia on Wednesday, a trade ministry
   official said.
   The three economic powers of Asia are to hold the Phnom Penh meeting
   on the sidelines of the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN)
   trade ministers' meeting.
   "The state (of Japan) has no intention at all of rejecting one
   specific product, but Microsoft's Windows is totally dominant despite
   some people's wish to try other products' functions," the Japanese
   official said.
   "It is important to provide (electronics) users' with options - some
   people may want to use Windows as it is convenient while others may
   want an open-source software due to concern over security and costs,"
   he said.
   Open-source systems such as Linux cannot be a serious alternative to
   Windows at present, he said.
   "Open-source software represented by Linux is solid in terms of their
   core software, but their peripheral software for such functions as
   word processing, spreadsheet and printing are not," he argued. The
   central governments need to promote the development of more
   user-friendly peripheral software for open-source operating systems,
   he said.
                                      
     Copyright, 1999 The Printers (Mysore) Private Ltd., 75, M.G. Road,
                    Post Box No 5331, Bangalore - 560001
               Tel: +91 (80) 5880000 Fax No. +91 (80) 5880523

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From vlinux-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  8 02:05:14 2003
From: vlinux-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Peter V.)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 22:05:14 -0400
Subject: Linus plans to take over the world
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306141331110.16632-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <000b01c375ad$a91d0830$ee152a18@peter>

true or false?

http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/25/1910248
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  8 02:11:03 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2003 22:11:03 -0400
Subject: Linus plans to take over the world
In-Reply-To: <000b01c375ad$a91d0830$ee152a18-ha/TRu0enf0@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306141331110.16632-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <000b01c375ad$a91d0830$ee152a18@peter>
Message-ID: <3F5BE537.4030502@rogers.com>

Peter V. wrote:
> true or false?
> 
> http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/25/1910248
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


I guess you missed the "HUMOR" topic.


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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  8 03:34:38 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 23:34:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Linus plans to take over the world
In-Reply-To: <000b01c375ad$a91d0830$ee152a18-ha/TRu0enf0@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0306141331110.16632-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <000b01c375ad$a91d0830$ee152a18@peter>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309072330090.1329@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, Peter V. wrote:

> true or false?
>
> http://newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/08/25/1910248

No, it's true.  President Stallman made a press release confirming his
support for Linus (although I can't seem to find the url right now). It is
believed Mr Torvalds and Pres Stallman differ on whether the term Open
Democracy or Free Elections is more appropriate.  In addition, Senator
Eric S Raymond has indicate his support also and has released a document
called "The Pentagon and the Mall".

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  8 22:54:14 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 18:54:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: more on Tuesday's talk
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309081852090.17694-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

From: Claudia Schmeing <claudia-H8ClgJW2OFZg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi all,


This is to announce that Claudia Schmeing and Sam Sgro will be giving
their "Opportunistic Encryption with Linux FreeS/WAN" talk and demo 
at the Tuesday, Sept. 9 Toronto Linux Users' Group (TLUG) meeting. Feel 
free to come out if you're in the area.

The talk/demo will be the same one given at this year's OLS 
(linuxsymposium.org). Abstract:

    Linux FreeS/WAN's Opportunistic Encryption (OE) is IPsec to any willing 
    host, using public keys distributed via DNS. OE is currently useful 
    primarily to prevent passive snooping of IP traffic. Its main advantage 
    over traditional IPsec configuration (for example, using shared secrets) 
    is that it does not require prearrangement between system administrators 
    at each end of a potential IPsec connection. We will demonstrate OE by 
    publishing keys in DNS and using those keys to establish a Linux FreeS/WAN 
    connection with minimal configuration. We will then show how a sysadmin 
    might use OE to set local IPsec security policy using FreeS/WAN's 
    "policy groups" configuration mechanism. In the process, we will discuss 
    challenges that OE presents to traditional notions of trust in IPsec peers.
    Last, we will discuss the future of OE: integrating OE with DNSsec 
    authentication.

TLUG location: http://tlug.linux.ca/meetings/meeting.shtml


Cheers,

Claudia

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  8 23:55:05 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:55:05 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <3F5B1DE2.2040403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com>
 <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>
 <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda>
 <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com>
 <3F5B1DE2.2040403@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030908195422.0b4753f8@localhost>

At 08:00 AM 07/09/2003 -0400, James Knott wrote:
>Greg Franks wrote:
>
>>The Linksys wireless router and WAP both work fine with mac's.
>
>
>FWIW, Best Buy has an SMC 7004VWBR wireless router on sale at $89.00, 
>until next Thursday and it comes with a $60 rebate from SMC.  If they're 
>out of stock, you can get a rain cheque.  I picked one up on Friday and it 
>works fine with Linux and lists Mac OS on the box.  However, these boxes 
>tend to be OS neutral.  As long as you have a Java enabled browser, you 
>can configure it.

Can you run it strictly as a WAP?

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep  8 23:59:15 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 19:59:15 -0400
Subject: [OT] Great shots [was Blue screens at Pearson]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309070149210.1072@zen.canint.timetraveller.
 org>
References: <20030907012953.GA31226@paip.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000@tosh5100.net>
 <20030907012953.GA31226@paip.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309070149210.1072@zen.canint.timetraveller.
 org>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030908195710.0b4758e0@localhost>

At 01:57 AM 07/09/2003 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
>On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote:
>
> > When I was at Sydney airport in December:
> >
> > http://pix.paip.net/Travels/20021204/travel/slide.php?slide=3&mag=0

It is a shame I did not have a camera with me on Sunday when I was at a 
CIBC ABM on Airport Rd. When I walked in, the NCR machine was busy going 
through the NTDETECT 4.0 step of Windows NT's boot sequence. It was not 
exactly confidence inspiring.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  9 00:04:08 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 20:04:08 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030908195422.0b4753f8-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com> <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]> <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda> <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030908195422.0b4753f8@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F5D18F8.1050202@rogers.com>

CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> At 08:00 AM 07/09/2003 -0400, James Knott wrote:
> 
>> Greg Franks wrote:
>>
>>> The Linksys wireless router and WAP both work fine with mac's.
>>
>>
>>
>> FWIW, Best Buy has an SMC 7004VWBR wireless router on sale at $89.00, 
>> until next Thursday and it comes with a $60 rebate from SMC.  If 
>> they're out of stock, you can get a rain cheque.  I picked one up on 
>> Friday and it works fine with Linux and lists Mac OS on the box.  
>> However, these boxes tend to be OS neutral.  As long as you have a 
>> Java enabled browser, you can configure it.
> 
> 
> Can you run it strictly as a WAP?
> 

Yes, though you'll have to provide your own dhcp server.  If the WAN 
side is not connected, the built in dhcp server gives the internal web 
server address as the gateway, instead of the configured address.  So, 
if you just turn off dhcp in it, you should be OK.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  9 00:05:54 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 08 Sep 2003 20:05:54 -0400
Subject: [OT] Great shots [was Blue screens at Pearson]
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030908195710.0b4758e0-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030907012953.GA31226@paip.net> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309061708240.6504-100000@tosh5100.net> <20030907012953.GA31226@paip.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030908195710.0b4758e0@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F5D1962.60906@rogers.com>

CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> At 01:57 AM 07/09/2003 -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> 
>> On Sat, 6 Sep 2003, Ian Goldberg wrote:
>>
>> > When I was at Sydney airport in December:
>> >
>> > http://pix.paip.net/Travels/20021204/travel/slide.php?slide=3&mag=0
> 
> 
> It is a shame I did not have a camera with me on Sunday when I was at a 
> CIBC ABM on Airport Rd. When I walked in, the NCR machine was busy going 
> through the NTDETECT 4.0 step of Windows NT's boot sequence. It was not 
> exactly confidence inspiring.

They should have stuck with OS/2 for those things or moved to Linux.


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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  9 14:20:59 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:20:59 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052225550.554-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost> <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052225550.554@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <bjknol$duk$1@sea.gmane.org>

If the purpose of this question is to avoid having to run the firewall 
and the internet services server on separate machines, what about 
running the email, web or whatever servers in user mode Linux 'jails' 
within the firewall, or maybe visa versa?


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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  9 18:33:34 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 14:33:34 -0400
Subject: [PyGTA] Looking for free zwiki & mailman list hosting
In-Reply-To: <3F5E0790.8020206-ZTO5kqT2PaM@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E0790.8020206@imap.cc>
Message-ID: <1063132414.4858.259.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>

Hi Andrew,

I suggest cross-posting to tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org .  Possibly TO BSD group too.

Cheers,
Lloyd



On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 13:02, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> I'm a volunteer with a FLOSS-oriented community learning project at the 
> St. Christopher House branch at Dundas & Ossington.  There's an active 
> PHP study group and a plan this Fall to roll-out Linux servers and 
> desktops on the centre's computer lab PC's.
> 
> The PHP group could use some group coordination tools - at this point I 
> think a wiki and a mailing list and, naturally being evil, I would like 
>   the PHP group to use Zwiki and a Mailman list.
> 
> Can any one suggest where we can get free hosting for these?
> 
> BTW: anyone wanting to come by to gently harass the PHP group or make a 
> contribution to the Linux project and even introduce some brand new 
> GPL-friendly idea is welcome.  The centre's web site is:
> 
> http://bangthedrum.net
> 
> I've suggested a Python class but, for the next few months anyway I 
> think their language card is full (C, Java, PHP).  Maybe a XP/Agile 
> Methods seminar?
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> PyGTA-General mailing list
> PyGTA-General-k7cJUOGo0w1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org
> http://web.engcorp.com:8032/mailman/listinfo/pygta-general
-- 
Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>

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From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  9 19:14:11 2003
From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 15:14:11 -0400
Subject: [PyGTA] Looking for free zwiki & mailman list hosting
References: <3F5E0790.8020206@imap.cc> <1063132414.4858.259.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <03a501c37706$8cd7ae00$0702a8c0@echoonline.echoon.net>

I'd be more than happy to help you and the rest of the project out with free
hosting / email.  Contact me off-list and we can work something out.

Regards,

M. Gamble
Senior Network Administrator
The Echo Group of Companies
Office: (905) 896-2000 ext 603
Cell: (416) 629-3265
Pager: pagematt-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lloyd D Budd" <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
To: "Andrew Malcolmson" <andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org>
Cc: <pygta-general-k7cJUOGo0w1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>; <tlug at ss.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2003 2:33 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: Re: [PyGTA] Looking for free zwiki & mailman list hosting


> Hi Andrew,
>
> I suggest cross-posting to tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org .  Possibly TO BSD group too.
>
> Cheers,
> Lloyd
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 13:02, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> > I'm a volunteer with a FLOSS-oriented community learning project at the
> > St. Christopher House branch at Dundas & Ossington.  There's an active
> > PHP study group and a plan this Fall to roll-out Linux servers and
> > desktops on the centre's computer lab PC's.
> >
> > The PHP group could use some group coordination tools - at this point I
> > think a wiki and a mailing list and, naturally being evil, I would like
> >   the PHP group to use Zwiki and a Mailman list.
> >
> > Can any one suggest where we can get free hosting for these?
> >
> > BTW: anyone wanting to come by to gently harass the PHP group or make a
> > contribution to the Linux project and even introduce some brand new
> > GPL-friendly idea is welcome.  The centre's web site is:
> >
> > http://bangthedrum.net
> >
> > I've suggested a Python class but, for the next few months anyway I
> > think their language card is full (C, Java, PHP).  Maybe a XP/Agile
> > Methods seminar?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > PyGTA-General mailing list
> > PyGTA-General-k7cJUOGo0w1BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org
> > http://web.engcorp.com:8032/mailman/listinfo/pygta-general
> -- 
> Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 00:06:52 2003
From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 20:06:52 -0400
Subject: Debian and KDE?
In-Reply-To: <E19vJCa-0007Xd-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E19vJCa-0007Xd-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <200309092006.52490.mervc@eol.ca>

On September 5, 2003 12:12 pm, Mailing List wrote:
> Hi,
>   I was wondering why KDE 3.1 isn't part
> of the testing branch of debian.  The
> only old 2.2 is there!
> It seems that debian is falling behind
> on verisions a couple of years old.
> --
I have upgraded to 3.1.3 from Debian.  In fact as soon as that version was 
announced, it was available in unstable as well as from the KDE site.

Merv

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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 01:55:42 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:55:42 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
Message-ID: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca>

I received 4 posts today from tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, instead of the usual 40 or 
so. Just wondering if that's what everyone received or if there is 
another problem with the list.

John.

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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 02:00:28 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:00:28 -0400
Subject: Scribus
Message-ID: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>

I'm looking for software that will make greeting cards - something that 
is made for it, not just a graphics program like The GIMP.  The only 
thing I could find that might do the trick is Scribus, but looking at 
their website, it doesn't specifically mention that it does greeting 
cards. Does anyone know if Scribus has a tool for greeting cards? Or 
another software?

Thanks,

John.

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 02:23:36 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 22:23:36 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <3F5E849E.70008-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030909222336.0daebe17.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 21:55:42 -0400
Moniz <john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I received 4 posts today from tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, instead of the usual 40 or 
> so. Just wondering if that's what everyone received or if there is 
> another problem with the list.

that's about what I got...tho with Sympatico, you just never know, I
remember when I first joined I was getting about 100/day...

fuckin' most useless ISP on the planet, except for maybe Rogers...
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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 02:30:39 2003
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:30:39 -0400
Subject: problems with list
Message-ID: <3F5E8CCF.8020503@sympatico.ca>

So far there have been 8 messages, all of which I have received throgh 
my Sympatico account. I kept my LinuxMail subscription alive just in 
case and I received the same amount in each. There was a low count 
yesterday as well. Acouple of slow news days, I guess.

John

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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 05:09:23 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 01:09:23 -0400
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <3F5E85BC.5030807-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:00:28 -0400
Moniz <john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I'm looking for software that will make greeting cards - something that 
> is made for it, not just a graphics program like The GIMP.  The only 
> thing I could find that might do the trick is Scribus, but looking at 
> their website, it doesn't specifically mention that it does greeting 
> cards. Does anyone know if Scribus has a tool for greeting cards? Or 
> another software?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John.

John,

   What is wrong with the GIMP?  

   You need a graphics program of some kind.  Xfig does vector graphics, although its fonts are limited.  Open Office has a lot of tools that should work.  I have done some decent layouts with LaTeX.  You can use LaTeX to generate any graphics you require for this.

   The chief thing you need to design greeting cards is artistic talent.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 05:44:27 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 01:44:27 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <3F5E849E.70008-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local>

I posted about a week ago topic was about the sharp Zaurus. Then I tried
to reply to a posting and I got 
"Your message was not delivered within 4 days. Host ss.org is not
responding."

On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 21:55, Moniz wrote:
> I received 4 posts today from tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, instead of the usual 40 or 
> so. Just wondering if that's what everyone received or if there is 
> another problem with the list.
> 
> John.
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 11:48:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 07:48:15 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <1063172667.6241.2.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca>
	<1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20030910074815.7301b941.joehill@sympatico.ca>

rOn 10 Sep 2003 01:44:27 -0400
Jason Shein <jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I posted about a week ago topic was about the sharp Zaurus. Then I
> tried to reply to a posting and I got 
> "Your message was not delivered within 4 days. Host ss.org is not
> responding."

That sounds more like the DNS issues I have seen discussed here
before, rather than good ol' Sympatico muckin' about again.
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From login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 12:05:23 2003
From: login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:05:23 -0400
Subject: OT: Carrying a pager
Message-ID: <1670568522.20030910080523@istop.com>


Fellows,

The management at my work place is interested to put me on pager
support. I have not dealt at my previous jobs as such thing.

Could you give me some sort of idea about carrying a pager
and compensation package binding at your employer and what should
I watch for?

I know that one time, a bank was binding me for one hour of pay
to carry just a pager for the 24 hours. Calls would be additionally
counted. Unfortunately, I was not hired :<

Also, how would you keep track of calls those are coming through the
pager assuming that the pager is just numerical one.

Thanks!

S. Mohammad [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 12:45:41 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:45:41 -0400
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca> <20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F5F1CF5.5030906@rogers.com>

Howard Gibson wrote:

>    The chief thing you need to design greeting cards is artistic talent.
> 

Is it available in an RPM?  ;-)


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 12:46:36 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:46:36 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <1063172667.6241.2.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca> <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <3F5F1D2C.1010605@rogers.com>

I had a couple of those too.

Jason Shein wrote:
> I posted about a week ago topic was about the sharp Zaurus. Then I tried
> to reply to a posting and I got 
> "Your message was not delivered within 4 days. Host ss.org is not
> responding."
> 
> On Tue, 2003-09-09 at 21:55, Moniz wrote:
> 
>>I received 4 posts today from tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org, instead of the usual 40 or 
>>so. Just wondering if that's what everyone received or if there is 
>>another problem with the list.
>>
>>John.
>>
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 12:56:01 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 08:56:01 -0400
Subject: OT: Carrying a pager
In-Reply-To: <1670568522.20030910080523-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1670568522.20030910080523@istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F5F1F61.4080608@rogers.com>

login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org wrote:
> Fellows,
> 
> The management at my work place is interested to put me on pager
> support. I have not dealt at my previous jobs as such thing.
> 
> Could you give me some sort of idea about carrying a pager
> and compensation package binding at your employer and what should
> I watch for?
> 
> I know that one time, a bank was binding me for one hour of pay
> to carry just a pager for the 24 hours. Calls would be additionally
> counted. Unfortunately, I was not hired :<
> 
> Also, how would you keep track of calls those are coming through the
> pager assuming that the pager is just numerical one.
> 
> Thanks!

I carried a pager in one position, but it was only during normal work 
hours.  Some companies pay for "on call" time, outside regular hours.

Bottom line, it depends on your employer and how much you want the job.


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 13:06:13 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:06:13 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
Message-ID: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>


I have now advanced this to number one on my list of "Things that piss
me off".

What kind of idjit joins a mailing list with a business address, then
sets an out-of-office reply which spams me ass-out for days?!

End rant.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
To give happiness is to deserve happiness.
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 13:14:44 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:14:44 -0400
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: Message from James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 45:41 EDT." <3F5F1CF5.5030906-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca> <20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson@eol.ca>  <3F5F1CF5.5030906@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030910131445.7380B6652B@cbbrowne.com>

James Knott wrote:
> Howard Gibson wrote:
> 
> >    The chief thing you need to design greeting cards is artistic talent.
> 
> Is it available in an RPM?  ;-)

Not until the _next_ major release of the Gimp...
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 14:06:12 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:06:12 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F5F2FD4.6090706@rogers.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> I have now advanced this to number one on my list of "Things that piss
> me off".
> 
> What kind of idjit joins a mailing list with a business address, then
> sets an out-of-office reply which spams me ass-out for days?!
> 
> End rant.
> 

Maybe they're also out-of-mind!  ;-)


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 14:08:39 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:08:39 -0400
Subject: Globe article
Message-ID: <3F5F3067.90402@rogers.com>

There was mention at last night's TLUG meeting about a Globe article. 
Does anyone have the URL?  I didn't see it the first time round, because 
I live in Mr. Rogers Neighbourhood.  ;-)

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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 14:13:59 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:13:59 -0400
Subject: OT: Carrying a pager
In-Reply-To: Message from login@istop.com 
   of: 05:23 EDT." <1670568522.20030910080523-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> 
References: <1670568522.20030910080523@istop.com>
Message-ID: <20030910141400.70D7E662FD@cbbrowne.com>

> Could you give me some sort of idea about carrying a pager
> and compensation package binding at your employer and what should
> I watch for?

The arrangements vary.

I have carried a pager at three jobs (including current one).  

In the two previous cases, I was purely salaried, and the pager thing
involved periodically "helping out in time of problem," and there was no
compensation involved.

In the present situation, I get a (nominal, but nice enough) sum for
carrying the pager, and get paid for at least a minimum of [several]
hours any time I get called.

The question is all of how stingy they are, or perhaps, more precisely,
whether or not the organization has budget for "operational
expenditures."

If you're supporting a server for a departmental project, there's likely
to be no money allocatable for "pager pay."  If the system is "really
operational," and they have to think about operational costs, then
budget may be able to be allocated.
--
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http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/finances.html
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of *EVERYTHING* is crud.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 14:26:59 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:26:59 -0400
Subject: Globe article
In-Reply-To: <3F5F3067.90402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5F3067.90402@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030910102659.5293eafb.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:08:39 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> There was mention at last night's TLUG meeting about a Globe article. 
> Does anyone have the URL?  I didn't see it the first time round,
> because I live in Mr. Rogers Neighbourhood.  ;-)

Was it the article about the anti-SCO group?

I think I have the URL tagged somewhere here if that's the one you want.
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
A dream will always triumph over reality, once it is given the chance.
		-- Stanislaw Lem
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 14:34:52 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:34:52 -0400
Subject: Globe article
In-Reply-To: <20030910102659.5293eafb.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5F3067.90402@rogers.com> <20030910102659.5293eafb.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F5F368C.8080509@rogers.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:08:39 -0400
> James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> 
>>There was mention at last night's TLUG meeting about a Globe article. 
>>Does anyone have the URL?  I didn't see it the first time round,
>>because I live in Mr. Rogers Neighbourhood.  ;-)
> 
> 
> Was it the article about the anti-SCO group?
> 
> I think I have the URL tagged somewhere here if that's the one you want.

I'm not sure about the content.  Post it, and I'll take a look.

tnx


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 15:00:42 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:00:42 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 09:06, JoeHill wrote:

> What kind of idjit joins a mailing list with a business address, then
> sets an out-of-office reply which spams me ass-out for days?!

Lots of idiots do it.

Does anyone know if there's a way to not trigger Outlook's out of office 
messages?  When sending email to a bunch of people (say 5,000) it's very 
annoying to have to wade through all of the "hi I got your message" trash 
along with the legitimate replies.

There's only two solutions that I can think of:

- Microsoft gets smart enough to insert a special header into their messages
  indicating that it is an automated message (I haven't seen such a header),
  this would make it easy to filter out.
- In the original mail that I send, I set some header that makes Outlook's
  autoresponder not respond to the email

Anyone know if something like the above exists?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 15:05:05 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:05:05 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <200309101100.43048.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030910110505.023d9863.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:00:42 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Anyone know if something like the above exists?

Another "feature" that MS can botch? No thanks.

-- 
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Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
If you can survive death, you can probably survive anything.
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 15:05:50 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:05:50 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <1063172667.6241.2.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca> <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <200309101105.50715.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:44, Jason Shein wrote:

> I posted about a week ago topic was about the sharp Zaurus. Then I tried
> to reply to a posting and I got
> "Your message was not delivered within 4 days. Host ss.org is not
> responding."

Did it really say "Host ss.org is not responding" or was it "Host lethe.ss.org 
is not responding"?  It's an important difference.  It should have been 
lethe.ss.org otherwise there's something funny going on (funnier than just 
plain connectivity issues).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 15:01:22 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 11:01:22 -0400
Subject: Globe article
In-Reply-To: <3F5F368C.8080509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5F3067.90402@rogers.com>
	<20030910102659.5293eafb.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F5F368C.8080509@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030910110122.780296fc.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:34:52 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I'm not sure about the content.  Post it, and I'll take a look.

whew, it was a post I made to the Mandrake list, forgot to tag it,
searching thru over 5000 archived posts...thankfully I could weed out
all the "re:"'s, since I was the one who posted it...

"A coalition of Canadian computer professionals dedicated to open-source
software is planning to oppose legal efforts to extract licence fees
from Linux users.

The Canadian Linux Interests Coalition, organized by members of Canada's
network of Linux Users Groups, says it plans to fight the SCO Group,
which holds certain patents on the Unix operating system. The company
claims that the Linux kernel \x{2014} the core of the system \x{2014}
contains programming code that it owns, and seeks to collect royalties
on installations of Linux."

http://www.globetechnology.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030821.gtlinuxjackaug21/BNStory/Technology/

-- 
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Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
If you fool around with something long enough, it will eventually break.
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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 16:34:41 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:34:41 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
Message-ID: <006201c377b9$7349b010$6401a8c0@main>

Hi All,

I am looking for a software program, open source, PHP + MySQL backend,
to manage projects and a work group for multiple users. It should not be
industry specific, but have a calendar function which users can use to
schedule upcoming jobs, coordinate things that are going on, provide
something like timelines, etc. Nothing really fancy, just something
which will enable users to keep track of what everyone is doing. Any
suggestions would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Sid


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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 16:38:34 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:38:34 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
In-Reply-To: Message from "Sidney Shapiro" <sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 34:41 EDT." <006201c377b9$7349b010$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> 
References: <006201c377b9$7349b010$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <20030910163835.3B4FA67B17@cbbrowne.com>

> I am looking for a software program, open source, PHP + MySQL backend,
> to manage projects and a work group for multiple users. It should not be
> industry specific, but have a calendar function which users can use to
> schedule upcoming jobs, coordinate things that are going on, provide
> something like timelines, etc. Nothing really fancy, just something
> which will enable users to keep track of what everyone is doing. Any
> suggestions would be really appreciated.

I don't know if it is compatible with MySQL, but we are running
"php_collab" which runs atop Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL for much this purpose.
--
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http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/finances.html
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of *EVERYTHING* is crud.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 16:49:12 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:49:12 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <200309101100.43048.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F5F5608.4020909@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 September 2003 09:06, JoeHill wrote:
> 
> 
>>What kind of idjit joins a mailing list with a business address, then
>>sets an out-of-office reply which spams me ass-out for days?!
> 
> 
> Lots of idiots do it.
> 
> Does anyone know if there's a way to not trigger Outlook's out of office 
> messages?  When sending email to a bunch of people (say 5,000) it's very 
> annoying to have to wade through all of the "hi I got your message" trash 
> along with the legitimate replies.
> 
> There's only two solutions that I can think of:
> 
> - Microsoft gets smart enough to insert a special header into their messages
>   indicating that it is an automated message (I haven't seen such a header),
>   this would make it easy to filter out.
> - In the original mail that I send, I set some header that makes Outlook's
>   autoresponder not respond to the email
> 
> Anyone know if something like the above exists?
> 

I thought that was a function of the mail server.  A few years ago, I 
worked at a company that used Lotus Notes.  The out of office messages 
were sent only to internal addresses.


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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 16:57:04 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:57:04 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9173@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I have been looking at phpgroupware and they have the basic groupware modules and a couple of project management modules as well. 

Maybe this would do the trick for you.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com



-----Original Message-----
From: Sidney Shapiro [mailto:sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:35 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

Hi All,

I am looking for a software program, open source, PHP + MySQL backend,
to manage projects and a work group for multiple users. It should not be
industry specific, but have a calendar function which users can use to
schedule upcoming jobs, coordinate things that are going on, provide
something like timelines, etc. Nothing really fancy, just something
which will enable users to keep track of what everyone is doing. Any
suggestions would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Sid


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 16:14:45 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:14:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
Message-ID: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

Once upon a time, no-ip.com gave great personalized support.  Now it seems
they're trying as hard as they can to make me feel like a number.  Oh
well, I think it's time I find an ISP that will give me a static IP and
decent DNS capabilities, rather than dealing with this dynamic-ip kludge. 
Any suggestions?
At last night's meeting, Drew mentioned that his ISP would help with TXT
DNS entries for Freeswan.  What ISP's have TLUGers had good experience
with (i.e. good uptime, support, bandwidth, etc.)?
Kareem


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To
From: No-IP Support <no-reply-kDK866N5x0kAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
Date: Wed, September 10, 2003 4:21 am
To: indigofire-9FykNH3DJp8Y+eTVAdjFZg at public.gmane.org

THIS IS AN AUTOMATED MESSAGE REPLIES TO THIS EMAIL WILL NOT BE ANSWERED.

Thank you for using the No-IP.com Support Ticket System. The following
response is from a No-IP support team member:

Date: Sep 10, 2003 (1:21am PDT)
From: No-IP Support

Unfortunatly we do not support this type of DNS record at this time.  So
no, you will not be able to use our service to do this, sorry.

Thank you again for using No-IP.com. We hope this response has
sufficiently answered your question. If not, you may re-open the ticket
at the following URL:
http://www.no-ip.com/members/ticket/view.php?ticket=12745

Please feel free to use the frequently asked questions page at
http://www.no-ip.com/faq.php find the answer to your questions.

Again, Please do not reply to this email, this email was sent from an
un-monitored account. If you need to add information to your ticket
please do so by clicking the ticket link contained in this email.


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/



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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:02:24 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:02:24 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E283190ED@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

That is only good if the person is using a mail server and onlt if the server is configured properly.

The same tool that sends those same annoying messages can be configured to omit certain addresses such as user groups. That way individual recipients know that you are skipping town, but the rest of us are happy in our ignorance.

It is all in the hands of the user. 

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com



-----Original Message-----
From: James Knott [mailto:james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:49 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 September 2003 09:06, JoeHill wrote:
> 
> 
>>What kind of idjit joins a mailing list with a business address, then
>>sets an out-of-office reply which spams me ass-out for days?!
> 
> 
> Lots of idiots do it.
> 
> Does anyone know if there's a way to not trigger Outlook's out of office 
> messages?  When sending email to a bunch of people (say 5,000) it's very 
> annoying to have to wade through all of the "hi I got your message" trash 
> along with the legitimate replies.
> 
> There's only two solutions that I can think of:
> 
> - Microsoft gets smart enough to insert a special header into their messages
>   indicating that it is an automated message (I haven't seen such a header),
>   this would make it easy to filter out.
> - In the original mail that I send, I set some header that makes Outlook's
>   autoresponder not respond to the email
> 
> Anyone know if something like the above exists?
> 

I thought that was a function of the mail server.  A few years ago, I 
worked at a company that used Lotus Notes.  The out of office messages 
were sent only to internal addresses.


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From tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:10:11 2003
From: tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Matthew M. Gamble)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:10:11 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0@echoonline.echoon.net>

> Once upon a time, no-ip.com gave great personalized support.  Now it seems
> they're trying as hard as they can to make me feel like a number.  Oh
> well, I think it's time I find an ISP that will give me a static IP and
> decent DNS capabilities, rather than dealing with this dynamic-ip kludge.
> Any suggestions?
> At last night's meeting, Drew mentioned that his ISP would help with TXT
> DNS entries for Freeswan.  What ISP's have TLUGers had good experience
> with (i.e. good uptime, support, bandwidth, etc.)?
> Kareem
>


My ISP (Echo Online, www.eol.ca) will do reverse DNS changes and TXT
records.

Again, it's a shameless plug because I'm the senior admin....

M. Gamble


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:13:56 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:13:56 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <3F5F5BD4.6010200@rogers.com>

Kareem Shehata wrote:
> Once upon a time, no-ip.com gave great personalized support.  Now it seems
> they're trying as hard as they can to make me feel like a number.  Oh
> well, I think it's time I find an ISP that will give me a static IP and
> decent DNS capabilities, rather than dealing with this dynamic-ip kludge. 
> Any suggestions?

FWIW, while Rogers uses DHCP, the host names are derived from your mac 
addresses and therefore static.  As long as you can do a DNS lookup, you 
don't have to worry about the IP address.  Also, the addresses are 
virtually static, changing only when there's a need for them to change.


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From steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:42:40 2003
From: steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Ellis, Steve)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:42:40 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
Message-ID: <A37D93BF2888D51197CD00508BBD49C30DAA6BEE@cbexch03.mobility.com>

Not sure whether it fully fits your needs, but I remember looking at this

http://www.tutos.org/homepage/about.html

and this

http://www.sherpath.org/index.php

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: Sidney Shapiro [mailto:sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 12:35 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Project / Workgroup Management

Hi All,

I am looking for a software program, open source, PHP + MySQL backend,
to manage projects and a work group for multiple users. It should not be
industry specific, but have a calendar function which users can use to
schedule upcoming jobs, coordinate things that are going on, provide
something like timelines, etc. Nothing really fancy, just something
which will enable users to keep track of what everyone is doing. Any
suggestions would be really appreciated.

Thanks,

Sid


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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:40:44 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:40:44 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
In-Reply-To: <20030910163835.3B4FA67B17-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910163835.3B4FA67B17@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c377c2$ad42e8f0$6401a8c0@main>

> 
> I don't know if it is compatible with MySQL, but we are running
> "php_collab" which runs atop Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL for much this
purpose.

Any idea where I can get a copy of php_collab?

Sid


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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:54:29 2003
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:54:29 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0-PSSipkwo9n87qqbXjboLhxxZW9W5cXbT@public.gmane.org>; from tlug-Xk30rxnpnVyw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org on Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 01:10:11PM -0400
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0@echoonline.echoon.net>
Message-ID: <20030910135428.Z6785@leftmind.net>

Matthew M. Gamble wrote:
> Kareem wrote:
> > At last night's meeting, Drew mentioned that his ISP would help with TXT
> > DNS entries for Freeswan.  What ISP's have TLUGers had good experience
> > with (i.e. good uptime, support, bandwidth, etc.)?
> 
> My ISP (Echo Online, www.eol.ca) will do reverse DNS changes and TXT
> records.

Onramp (www.onramp.ca) will do the same.  Note, though, that we're more
in the business market and don't do residential DSL or such.

I note that RFC 2317 support may make this a lot easier; if an ISP is
willing to simply CNAME the in-addr.arpa entry to something in the user's
own domain (a service that has been requested in the past, for reverse
delegation of CIDR blocks), then the user can put all the interesting
records they want in their own zonefile.

> Again, it's a shameless plug because I'm the senior admin....

Likewise.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:25:35 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:25:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0-PSSipkwo9n87qqbXjboLhxxZW9W5cXbT@public.gmane.org>
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
        <06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0@echoonline.echoon.net>
Message-ID: <28012.199.64.0.252.1063214735.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

I just called my current ISP and found out that they do support TXT
records and static IP's, though it'll cost me $20/month.  Is it the same
with other ISP's?
Kareem


Matthew M. Gamble said:
> My ISP (Echo Online, www.eol.ca) will do reverse DNS changes and TXT
> records.
>
> Again, it's a shameless plug because I'm the senior admin....
>
> M. Gamble


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/



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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:28:51 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:28:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <3F5F5BD4.6010200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
        <3F5F5BD4.6010200@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <51149.199.64.0.253.1063214931.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


James Knott said:
> FWIW, while Rogers uses DHCP, the host names are derived from your mac
> addresses and therefore static.  As long as you can do a DNS lookup,
> you  don't have to worry about the IP address.  Also, the addresses are
>  virtually static, changing only when there's a need for them to
> change.

After Rogers cut my connection and accussed me of being a spammer for
running an SMTP server, I don't think I'll go back.  That and their
horrendous reliability problems, terrible support, and weird routing left
a really bad impression.
Quote from their tech "You're running IIS right?"
I didn't say anything nasty, I don't know why they had to get downright
insulting.
Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 18:20:18 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:20:18 -0400
Subject: Fetchmail and Sympatico
Message-ID: <20030910142018.16d42384.joehill@sympatico.ca>


I was having some problems with retrieving certain mail from Sympatico
with Fetchmail, I kept getting 

fetchmail: incorrect header line found while scanning headers

it was only with mail from lists.sourceforge.net.

anyway, after *much* help from several people, I have solved the
problem, and I thought I would share it with you's guys, since some of
us might be in the same situation.

what you need is a patched version of Fetchmail, as the developer is
pretty adamant about not changing his app to suit clueless MTA's like
Sympatico's or others.

If you *are* having probs, let me know, and I can send ya the patch, I
just built Fetchmail 6.2.4 with the patch and it works great!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
The more laws and order are made prominent, the more thieves and
robbers there will be.
		-- Lao Tsu
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 18:29:24 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:29:24 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <20030910142924.770a0fe1.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:14:45 -0400 (EDT)
"Kareem Shehata" <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Any suggestions?

Well, not about ISP's, but I have my domain name (gotta change my sig)
www.orderinchaos.org working through Zoneedit.com, and it seems to be
pretty reliable so far (goes and checks b4 sends mail, LOL!).

There is an update client called zoneclient, a Python script which I
just set up as an hourly cronjob, which is very easy to use (must be if
I got it to work).

Of course, I wish I just had a static IP, but, hey...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisdom is rarely found on the best-seller list.
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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 18:32:15 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:32:15 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <51149.199.64.0.253.1063214931.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <51149.199.64.0.253.1063214931.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <000701c377c9$df8764b0$6401a8c0@main>

> After Rogers cut my connection and accussed me of being a spammer for
> running an SMTP server, I don't think I'll go back.  That and their
> horrendous reliability problems, terrible support, and weird routing
left
> a really bad impression.
> Quote from their tech "You're running IIS right?"
> I didn't say anything nasty, I don't know why they had to get
downright
> insulting.
> Kareem

I can't complain about Rogers, they offer decent uptime and reliability,
and no other ISP would let you download 10-15GB a day and not charge you
through the roof for it. Perhaps its not for everyone in every
situation, but that's why you have to fix the problem yourself instead
of calling tech support. It seems like the vast majority of people who
work tech support at Rogers simply go over a five steps which will help
you get connected using windows 98. Nothing very helpful.

Sid 


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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 18:44:43 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:44:43 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:40:44 EDT."
             <007a01c377c2$ad42e8f0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org> 
References: <007a01c377c2$ad42e8f0$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <20030910184444.1728266665@cbbrowne.com>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 13:40:44 EDT, the world broke into rejoicing as
"Sidney Shapiro" <sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org>  said:
> > 
> > I don't know if it is compatible with MySQL, but we are running
> > "php_collab" which runs atop Apache/PHP/PostgreSQL for much this
> purpose.
> 
> Any idea where I can get a copy of php_collab?

SourceForge.

<http://phpcollab.sourceforge.net/>
--
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http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/finances.html
Sturgeon's Law: 90% of *EVERYTHING* is crud.
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 19:11:07 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:11:07 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <3F5F5608.4020909-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net> <3F5F5608.4020909@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200309101511.07896.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 12:49, James Knott wrote:

> > There's only two solutions that I can think of:
> >
> > - Microsoft gets smart enough to insert a special header into their
> > messages indicating that it is an automated message (I haven't seen such
> > a header), this would make it easy to filter out.
> > - In the original mail that I send, I set some header that makes
> > Outlook's autoresponder not respond to the email
> >
> > Anyone know if something like the above exists?
>
> I thought that was a function of the mail server.  A few years ago, I
> worked at a company that used Lotus Notes.  The out of office messages
> were sent only to internal addresses.

No, an email client can add headers if it wants.  I'm not exactly sure of RFC 
compliance but I think you can add a header X-anything without concern.  For 
example a common header is "X-Mailer: mutt (blah, blah)".

My first suggestion was that there be a convention for autoresponse messages 
to contain a header like "X-Message-Type: vacation".  This way if you were 
sending bulk email you could ignore the hundreds of autoresponses simply by 
filtering on that header.  As far as I know there's no such convention.

My second hope was that Microsoft's autoresponder (let's say the one built 
into Outlook) is smart enough to not reply to messages that set certain 
headers.  A common header for mailing lists is "Precedence: list", if lookout 
wouldn't respond to those then problem solved for mailing lists and senders 
of bulk mail.  "Precedence: bulk" is also common.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 19:24:10 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:24:10 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <200309101511.07896.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net>
	<3F5F5608.4020909@rogers.com>
	<200309101511.07896.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030910152410.5be4503a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 15:11:07 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> My second hope was that Microsoft's autoresponder (let's say the one
> built into Outlook) is smart enough to not reply to messages that set
> certain headers.

"Hope" and "Microsoft" in one sentence?! What have you been smoking man!

<G>
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: nodex.sytes.net
++++++++++++++++++++++
I have often regretted my speech, never my silence.
		-- Publilius Syrus
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 20:31:37 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:37 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9173-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9173@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <20030910203137.GF20895@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 12:57:04PM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote:
> I have been looking at phpgroupware and they have the basic groupware modules and a couple of project management modules as well. 
> 
> Maybe this would do the trick for you.

In my experience PHPGroupWare is amazingly buggy, having idiotic syntax
errors in release versions, that were filed as bugs in the release
candidates, checked in to the cvs version, but not actally fixed in the
branch that was about ot be released, and hence the bug stayed in the
release version.  It feels like a mess to work with, the bugs drive you
nuts, and the maintainers seem incompetent based on their quality of
releases and bug tracking skills.

I have given up on it entirely.  It looked promising, but it really
isn't worth the frustration to me.

Tutos isn't bad for some of the things phpgroupware does.

Lennart Sorensen
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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 20:31:28 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:31:28 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <200309101105.50715.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca> <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local> <200309101105.50715.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <bjo1rr$stk$1@sea.gmane.org>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:44, Jason Shein wrote:
> 
> 
>>I posted about a week ago topic was about the sharp Zaurus. Then I tried
>>to reply to a posting and I got
>>"Your message was not delivered within 4 days. Host ss.org is not
>>responding."
> 
> 
> Did it really say "Host ss.org is not responding" or was it "Host lethe.ss.org 
> is not responding"?  It's an important difference.  It should have been 
> lethe.ss.org otherwise there's something funny going on (funnier than just 
> plain connectivity issues).
> 

At some point someone is going to tell me to stop pushing Gmane, but 
nobody's got around to this yet so here goes:

If you read the TLUG list as a newsgroup via nntp://news.gmane.org 
(group name gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug) you don't have to worry 
about any blockage issues.  You get the convenience of a newsreader 
interface (threading is the main one), you don't have to worry about 
messages piling up in your mail folders, and you don't want to get 
messages for a while, you just uncheck the list in your news reader's 
subscribed groups list.

If anyone has tried this and not liked it I'd like to know why because 
it seems like a big convenience win with no downside other than needing 
to know how to use a newsreader.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 20:52:42 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:52:42 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <000701c377c9$df8764b0$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <000701c377c9$df8764b0$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <3F5F8F1A.7010204@rogers.com>

Sidney Shapiro wrote:
>>After Rogers cut my connection and accussed me of being a spammer for
>>running an SMTP server, I don't think I'll go back.  That and their
>>horrendous reliability problems, terrible support, and weird routing
> 
> left
> 
>>a really bad impression.
>>Quote from their tech "You're running IIS right?"
>>I didn't say anything nasty, I don't know why they had to get
> 
> downright
> 
>>insulting.
>>Kareem
> 
> 
> I can't complain about Rogers, they offer decent uptime and reliability,
> and no other ISP would let you download 10-15GB a day and not charge you
> through the roof for it. Perhaps its not for everyone in every
> situation, but that's why you have to fix the problem yourself instead
> of calling tech support. It seems like the vast majority of people who
> work tech support at Rogers simply go over a five steps which will help
> you get connected using windows 98. Nothing very helpful.

I agree.  They do tend to be a bit clueless.  A couple of years ago, 
when I had an OS/2 system connected to the cable modem, the "tech's" 
instructions always started with "Click on the Start button...".  They 
also seem to like rebooting systems.  I guess they've never heard of 
reliable systems, such as Linux and OS/2.


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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 20:58:21 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 16:58:21 -0400
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9181@lynchmail.lynch.msft>


-----Original Message-----
From: Lennart Sorensen [mailto:lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 4:32 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

>On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 12:57:04PM -0400, Wil McGilvery wrote:
>> I have been looking at phpgroupware and they have the basic groupware
>>modules and a couple of project management modules as well. 
> 
> >Maybe this would do the trick for you.

>In my experience PHPGroupWare is amazingly buggy, having idiotic syntax
>errors in release versions, that were filed as bugs in the release
>candidates, checked in to the cvs version, but not actally fixed in the
>branch that was about ot be released, and hence the bug stayed in the
>release version.  It feels like a mess to work with, the bugs drive you
>nuts, and the maintainers seem incompetent based on their quality of
>releases and bug tracking skills.

>I have given up on it entirely.  It looked promising, but it really
>isn't worth the frustration to me.

>Tutos isn't bad for some of the things phpgroupware does.

>Lennart Sorensen
--

Thanks for the review. It is always good to know what people think.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406  FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 21:23:39 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:23:39 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <20030910152410.5be4503a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200309101511.07896.fraser@wehave.net> <20030910152410.5be4503a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200309101723.39883.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 15:24, JoeHill wrote:

> > My second hope was that Microsoft's autoresponder (let's say the one
> > built into Outlook) is smart enough to not reply to messages that set
> > certain headers.
>
> "Hope" and "Microsoft" in one sentence?! What have you been smoking man!

Too much on my mind lately, guess I am finally losing it ;-)

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 16:10:04 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 12:10:04 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <bjo1rr$stk$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca>
	 <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local>
	 <200309101105.50715.fraser@wehave.net>  <bjo1rr$stk$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1063210203.19353.104.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 16:31, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:

> If anyone has tried this and not liked it I'd like to know why because 
> it seems like a big convenience win with no downside other than needing 
> to know how to use a newsreader.

Search is much more common in emails than newsreaders.

Cheers,
Lloyd

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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 21:46:01 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 17:46:01 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <200309101105.50715.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca>
	 <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local>
	 <200309101105.50715.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <1063230361.3456.0.camel@linux.local>

That info was cut & pasted from the email I received back.

On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 11:05, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:44, Jason Shein wrote:
> 
> > I posted about a week ago topic was about the sharp Zaurus. Then I tried
> > to reply to a posting and I got
> > "Your message was not delivered within 4 days. Host ss.org is not
> > responding."
> 
> Did it really say "Host ss.org is not responding" or was it "Host lethe.ss.org 
> is not responding"?  It's an important difference.  It should have been 
> lethe.ss.org otherwise there's something funny going on (funnier than just 
> plain connectivity issues).
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 22:37:20 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 18:37:20 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0-PSSipkwo9n87qqbXjboLhxxZW9W5cXbT@public.gmane.org>
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0@echoonline.echoon.net>
Message-ID: <3F5FA7A0.5060104@rogers.com>

> Again, it's a shameless plug because I'm the senior admin....

Don't underestimate the value of that kind of a plug; I'd trust a 
list-member's word over some piece of typical hardcopy marketing propaganda.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 23:01:56 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 10 Sep 2003 19:01:56 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: Support Ticket ID 12745 Has Been Replied To]
In-Reply-To: <3F5FA7A0.5060104-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
	<06d401c377be$64ebea60$0702a8c0@echoonline.echoon.net> 
	<3F5FA7A0.5060104@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1063234916.32047.4.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 18:37, Byron Sonne wrote:
> > Again, it's a shameless plug because I'm the senior admin....
> 
> Don't underestimate the value of that kind of a plug; I'd trust a 
> list-member's word over some piece of typical hardcopy marketing propaganda.

If the senior admin, or anyone else with enough interest to plug their
own company, is on this list that's already +1 for that company in my
books.  It shows that the company is more than just a number, *and* that
at least someone in the company knows that PC's exist with an OS other
than Windows.  Stating that they work for the company upfront is simply
being honest and transparent.  I like that too in a company.

I will of course take their advice knowing that they work for the
company and as such are somewhat biased, but I won't discount it either.

</my two cents>

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 01:33:37 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 21:33:37 -0400
Subject: Rogers as an ISP (was Re:[Fwd: Support Ticket ID
  12745 Has Been Replied To])
In-Reply-To: <3F5F5BD4.6010200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <16926.199.64.0.252.1063210485.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
 <3F5F5BD4.6010200@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030910211921.093af7b8@localhost>

At 01:13 PM 10/09/2003, James Knott wrote:
>Kareem Shehata wrote:
>>Once upon a time, no-ip.com gave great personalized support.  Now it seems
>>they're trying as hard as they can to make me feel like a number.  Oh
>>well, I think it's time I find an ISP that will give me a static IP and
>>decent DNS capabilities, rather than dealing with this dynamic-ip kludge. 
>>Any suggestions?
>
>FWIW, while Rogers uses DHCP, the host names are derived from your mac 
>addresses and therefore static.  As long as you can do a DNS lookup, you 
>don't have to worry about the IP address.  Also, the addresses are 
>virtually static, changing only when there's a need for them to change.

I have Rogers both at home and at my office. At the office, it was the only 
option for the longest time so it was not as if I had much choice. Lately, 
Rogers has been annoying me. First, the performance lately has been spotty 
at best. I see no reason why I should have miserable response even between 
home and office. It is the *same* network. Second, there has been an 
inexorable slide into mediocrity on the part of Rogers in Markham since 
they took over the Shaw territory. Business accounts used to get 8 static 
IPs and something on the order of 10Mb/s access all for around $100. When 
Rogers took over, "in order to serve you better", they eliminated all 
static IPs for their business accounts and capped both the up and down data 
transfer rates to a fraction of what it was before, something like 1.5/256 
but who knows since it is not listed anywhere now. Third, too many ISPs are 
bouncing mail from my smtp server that I am running on my *office* Rogers 
connection. I called Rogers to notify them since I am paying for a 
"business" connection and expect business level service, e.g., the ability 
to run my own smtp server. Their response was first to suggest that I use 
their smtp server (no thanks) and second to tell me that they will contact 
AOL, the ISP that was bouncing my mail, to have their sysadmin add my IP 
address to their whitelist. I was skeptical that this would work and my 
skepticism was well founded because six weeks and several phone calls to 
Rogers "support" later, I still cannot send mail to any domain owned by AOL 
and some other domains. I was told that Rogers would be introducing static 
IPs "real soon", naturally for more money since it is soooo much more 
complicated for them to manage static vs. dynamic IPs. I guess it is not 
enough that they charge double the residential rate for no different 
service and have to screw their business customers further. Anyway, I am in 
the market and annoyed enough with Rogers that I might switch my mobile 
phone and cable TV to other providers as well just to send the idiots a 
message.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 02:55:16 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 22:55:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F5B204D.9070602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5B204D.9070602@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030910224818.3921B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> ...Tube computers were also extremely unreliable (I used to 
> maintain & repair one in the Toronto Stock Exchange.) and not the kind 
> of thing you'd want to trust someone's life to.

How about 250 million lives? :-)  Tube computers could be made extremely
reliable, as witness the tube computers that controlled North America's
air defences for many years. 

As ENIAC showed, running the tubes at much less than their rated
electrical limits, and leaving the system on 24 hours a day so that the
tube filaments were never stressed by cooling down and heating up again,
made a huge difference.  The reliability still wasn't wonderful, with mean
times between failure measured in hours rather than days... but with
multiply-redundant systems and automatic switchover to a hot spare, a
failure of one computer didn't mean an interruption in service. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 03:27:18 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:27:18 -0400
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <20030910131445.7380B6652B-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>
	<20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<3F5F1CF5.5030906@rogers.com>
	<20030910131445.7380B6652B@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <20030910232718.3c84a727.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:14:44 -0400
cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> James Knott wrote:
> > Howard Gibson wrote:
> >

> > > The chief thing you need to design greeting cards is artistic
> > >talent.
> > 
> > Is it available in an RPM?  ;-)
> 
> Not until the _next_ major release of the Gimp...

Doesn't *anyone* compile from source any more?

Sheesh!

~ C

-- 
gpg pubkey fingerprint:
100E A98E E143 C326 547C  A207 A704 F673 8B4E A754
                     ****
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 03:45:23 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:45:23 -0400
Subject: Gimp
In-Reply-To: <20030910232718.3c84a727.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>	<20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson@eol.ca>	<3F5F1CF5.5030906@rogers.com>	<20030910131445.7380B6652B@cbbrowne.com> <20030910232718.3c84a727.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F5FEFD3.9090002@rogers.com>

As wonderful as the gimp is, I tried to draw a straight line, today.


Is there a simple way to draw a straight line, or do I have to explore 
Perl-gimp? Or do it in PostScript?


Tom

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 03:49:00 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:49:00 -0400
Subject: Gimp
In-Reply-To: <3F5FEFD3.9090002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca> <20030910232718.3c84a727.rufmetal@eol.ca> <3F5FEFD3.9090002@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200309102349.02399.marc@lijour.net>

Le 10 Septembre 2003 23:45, Tom Legrady a ?crit :
> As wonderful as the gimp is, I tried to draw a straight line, today.
>
>
> Is there a simple way to draw a straight line, or do I have to explore
> Perl-gimp? Or do it in PostScript?

Try to hold the shift key (using the right tool, which may be called pencil?)


>
> Tom
>
> --
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 12:16:59 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:16:59 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <1063230361.3456.0.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca> <200309101105.50715.fraser@wehave.net> <1063230361.3456.0.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <200309110816.59071.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 17:46, Jason Shein wrote:
> That info was cut & pasted from the email I received back.

Hmmm, doesn't make much sense.  Host ss.org does not exist and is not an MX 
record.  Sympatico should have sent email to the MX (lethe.ss.org) in which 
case you'd expect to see "lethe.ss.org is not responding".  If a mailserver 
doesn't find an MX record then it tries to send to the A record (i.e. 
whatever IP address ss.org resolves to), ss.org does not have an A record so 
if that's what sympatico was trying to do then I would have expected to see 
"Host ss.org not found" or similar .

Perhaps Sympatico is using one of those new fangled systems that give 
"friendly" error messages, more likely they just don't have a clue as to what 
they're doing.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 12:41:19 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 08:41:19 -0400
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <20030910232718.3c84a727.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>	<20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson@eol.ca>	<3F5F1CF5.5030906@rogers.com>	<20030910131445.7380B6652B@cbbrowne.com> <20030910232718.3c84a727.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F606D6F.80307@rogers.com>

Chris Keelan wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:14:44 -0400
> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> 
>>James Knott wrote:
>>
>>>Howard Gibson wrote:
>>>
> 
> 
>>>>The chief thing you need to design greeting cards is artistic
>>>>talent.
>>>
>>>Is it available in an RPM?  ;-)
>>
>>Not until the _next_ major release of the Gimp...
> 
> 
> Doesn't *anyone* compile from source any more?
> 
> Sheesh!

I would, if I could find the source code for artistic talent.  ;-)

BTW, when I was a kid in school, I was the type who'd do well building 
things, including crafts.  But I was hopeless at drawing or painting.



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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 14:26:58 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 10:26:58 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <1063210203.19353.104.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca>	 <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local>	 <200309101105.50715.fraser@wehave.net>  <bjo1rr$stk$1@sea.gmane.org> <1063210203.19353.104.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <bjq0ss$sak$1@sea.gmane.org>

Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> On Wed, 2003-09-10 at 16:31, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> 
> 
>>If anyone has tried this and not liked it I'd like to know why because 
>>it seems like a big convenience win with no downside other than needing 
>>to know how to use a newsreader.
> 
> 
> Search is much more common in emails than newsreaders.
> 
True.  My Mozilla news only allows me to search newsgroups by Sender and 
  Subject.  I don't know if other newsreaders are better or if this is a 
Usenet limitation.

Normally you could search TLUG on Gmane at:

http://news.gmane.org/gmane.org.user-groups.linux.tolug

but searching is presently out of order with a fix estimated in the next 
  week or so.


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From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 16:42:49 2003
From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:42:49 -0400
Subject: Globe article
In-Reply-To: <3F5F3067.90402-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5F3067.90402@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F60A609.7020501@idirect.com>

James Knott wrote:
> There was mention at last night's TLUG meeting about a Globe article. 
> Does anyone have the URL?  I didn't see it the first time round, because 
> I live in Mr. Rogers Neighbourhood.  ;-)
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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Here's a link to a forum with a link to the article :-)

http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-08-29-008-26-OP-CY-MS


-Mike

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From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 16:51:15 2003
From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:51:15 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <3F5F5608.4020909-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net> <3F5F5608.4020909@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F60A803.7020804@idirect.com>

James Knott wrote:
...
> 
> I thought that was a function of the mail server.  A few years ago, I 
> worked at a company that used Lotus Notes.  The out of office messages 
> were sent only to internal addresses.

I'm subscribed to a Lotus Notes mailing list.  There are always about 
5-10 "So-and-so is out of the office... " messages posted every month.

Out of office should _never_ be used outside of the company.

There was a spot on CBC radio a little while back which illustrated the 
security problem with these out-of-office messages:  Criminals have been 
using these to know the names of people who are away on vacation, they 
then look up their addresses in the phonebook and help themselves to the 
contents of their homes.

-Mike

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 16:55:25 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:55:25 -0400
Subject: Globe article
In-Reply-To: <3F60A609.7020501-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5F3067.90402@rogers.com> <3F60A609.7020501@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <3F60A8FD.9060006@rogers.com>

Mike Kallies wrote:
> James Knott wrote:
> 
>> There was mention at last night's TLUG meeting about a Globe article. 
>> Does anyone have the URL?  I didn't see it the first time round, 
>> because I live in Mr. Rogers Neighbourhood.  ;-)
>>
>> -- 
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> Here's a link to a forum with a link to the article :-)
> 
> http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-08-29-008-26-OP-CY-MS

tnx


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 16:47:27 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:47:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: OT: Carrying a pager
In-Reply-To: <1670568522.20030910080523-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1670568522.20030910080523@istop.com>
Message-ID: <12107.216.138.194.32.1063298847.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


>
> Fellows,
>
> The management at my work place is interested to put me on pager
> support. I have not dealt at my previous jobs as such thing.
>
> Could you give me some sort of idea about carrying a pager
> and compensation package binding at your employer and what should
> I watch for?

A clear list of responsibilities (include implied responsibilities) is in
order, otherwise some employers might load you up with a kazillion extra
duties on a freebie ticket. Make sure yo include any apps that you install
on the systems, like swatch.

> I know that one time, a bank was binding me for one hour of pay
> to carry just a pager for the 24 hours. Calls would be additionally
> counted. Unfortunately, I was not hired :<

This is not unreasonable. Generally, oncall 24/7 should have a special
contract clause that defines everything. If an employer expects you to
just pick up and go fix something at 4am they should pay pretty well for
it.

> Also, how would you keep track of calls those are coming through the
> pager assuming that the pager is just numerical one.

You'll need to carry a pda with time and charges tracking software.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:12:45 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:12:45 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <3F5E85BC.5030807-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309102011230.561@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 9 Sep 2003, Moniz wrote:

> I'm looking for software that will make greeting cards - something that
> is made for it, not just a graphics program like The GIMP.  The only
> thing I could find that might do the trick is Scribus, but looking at
> their website, it doesn't specifically mention that it does greeting
> cards. Does anyone know if Scribus has a tool for greeting cards? Or
> another software?

imho, gimp, xfig, povray, blender and tex/latex all make great greeting
cards, each in its own way. How do you define a greeting card that you
like ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 10 17:22:38 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 20:22:38 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <200309101100.43048.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309102019400.561@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 10 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> There's only two solutions that I can think of:
>
> - Microsoft gets smart enough to insert a special header into their messages
>   indicating that it is an automated message (I haven't seen such a header),
>   this would make it easy to filter out.

This will happen exactly one day before spam stops being sent
spontaneously and that will be two days before h at ll freezes over.

> - In the original mail that I send, I set some header that makes Outlook's
>   autoresponder not respond to the email

Try to send a virus ?

> Anyone know if something like the above exists?

No, there isn't, BUT you can program a mail filter like procmail to look
in the message and zap any messages that say that they are on vacation.

Peter
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 17:01:36 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:01:36 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <3F60A803.7020804-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net> <3F5F5608.4020909@rogers.com> <3F60A803.7020804@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <3F60AA70.1040404@rogers.com>

Mike Kallies wrote:
> James Knott wrote:
> ...
> 
>>
>> I thought that was a function of the mail server.  A few years ago, I 
>> worked at a company that used Lotus Notes.  The out of office messages 
>> were sent only to internal addresses.
> 
> 
> I'm subscribed to a Lotus Notes mailing list.  There are always about 
> 5-10 "So-and-so is out of the office... " messages posted every month.
> 
> Out of office should _never_ be used outside of the company.
> 
> There was a spot on CBC radio a little while back which illustrated the 
> security problem with these out-of-office messages:  Criminals have been 
> using these to know the names of people who are away on vacation, they 
> then look up their addresses in the phonebook and help themselves to the 
> contents of their homes.

As someone else mentioned, it's a configuration issue.  Notes and other 
mail servers give you the tools.  It's up to the admin to use those 
tools properly.  I had also heard of that criminal threat.


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 16:18:50 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 12:18:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Project / Workgroup Management
In-Reply-To: <006201c377b9$7349b010$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <006201c377b9$7349b010$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <12016.216.138.194.32.1063297130.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Hi All,
>
> I am looking for a software program, open source, PHP + MySQL backend,
> to manage projects and a work group for multiple users. It should not be
> industry specific, but have a calendar function which users can use to
> schedule upcoming jobs, coordinate things that are going on, provide
> something like timelines, etc. Nothing really fancy, just something
> which will enable users to keep track of what everyone is doing. Any
> suggestions would be really appreciated.

check phpbuilder.com.... should be something there



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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 17:14:58 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:14:58 -0400
Subject: OT: Carrying a pager
In-Reply-To: <12107.216.138.194.32.1063298847.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1670568522.20030910080523@istop.com> <12107.216.138.194.32.1063298847.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <200309111314.58311.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 11 September 2003 12:47, Keith Mastin wrote:

> > Also, how would you keep track of calls those are coming through the
> > pager assuming that the pager is just numerical one.
>
> You'll need to carry a pda with time and charges tracking software.

Or a piece of paper.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 17:18:24 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:18:24 -0400
Subject: OT: Carrying a pager
In-Reply-To: <12107.216.138.194.32.1063298847.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1670568522.20030910080523@istop.com> <12107.216.138.194.32.1063298847.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F60AE60.2090300@rogers.com>

Keith Mastin wrote:

>>Also, how would you keep track of calls those are coming through the
>>pager assuming that the pager is just numerical one.
> 
> 
> You'll need to carry a pda with time and charges tracking software.
> 

One possibility would be to use a cell phone as the pager.  Many can now 
receive e-mail, which can be saved as a record of calls.


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 17:18:40 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:18:40 -0400
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309102019400.561-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309102019400.561@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <200309111318.40414.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 10 September 2003 13:22, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> > Anyone know if something like the above exists?
>
> No, there isn't, BUT you can program a mail filter like procmail to look
> in the message and zap any messages that say that they are on vacation.

That's the whole point of this thread.  How do you identify such messages with 
procmail?

Mailing list messages are easily recognized and procmail has a specific filter 
to help you recognize them.  Out of office messages are not easily 
recognisable.  No common headers to filter on ... if I'd been filtering out 
messages with 'out of office' in the subject I'd have missed the entire 
thread.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 17:22:51 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 13:22:51 -0400
Subject: OT: Carrying a pager
In-Reply-To: <200309111314.58311.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1670568522.20030910080523@istop.com> <12107.216.138.194.32.1063298847.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <200309111314.58311.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F60AF6B.1000208@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Thursday 11 September 2003 12:47, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Also, how would you keep track of calls those are coming through the
>>>pager assuming that the pager is just numerical one.
>>
>>You'll need to carry a pda with time and charges tracking software.
> 
> 
> Or a piece of paper.
> 

A piece of what???

I though computers were supposed to bring us a "paperless" world!  ;-)


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 18:12:22 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:12:22 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <200309111318.40414.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309102019400.561@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <200309111318.40414.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309112107530.1121@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> That's the whole point of this thread.  How do you identify such
> messages with procmail?
>
> Mailing list messages are easily recognized and procmail has a specific
> filter to help you recognize them.  Out of office messages are not
> easily recognisable.  No common headers to filter on ... if I'd been
> filtering out messages with 'out of office' in the subject I'd have
> missed the entire thread.

:0B:
* (is out of.*office)
/dev/null

man procmailrc

I suggest you make the rule more specific so it does not eat any personal
email that is sent to you, and that you turn on logging and have the log
sent to you to check from time to time. In case some important email gets
eaten.

Peter
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 18:39:16 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:39:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <bjknol$duk$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
        <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052225550.554@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
        <bjknol$duk$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <12509.216.138.194.32.1063305556.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> If the purpose of this question is to avoid having to run the firewall
> and the internet services server on separate machines, what about
> running the email, web or whatever servers in user mode Linux 'jails'
> within the firewall, or maybe visa versa?

Jails will make it harder to crack out of a service into the main system,
but it's doable. The whole point is to make the firewall as impervious as
possible, which is in contradiction to the functions of a server. running
servers on the firewall presents an easy single point of failure to your
network, your security and your users security. If there's a better way
that's resonable, I would say doing it anyway could be irresponsible in
the long run.

Check out esmith.org. There's also clarckconnect, and more, but it's a
long list. All of them share the single point of failure weakness. Are
they hackable? Check them out with nessus and judge for your self.

Put one of these behind a little firewall/router do-hickey from netgear,
linksys or any other favored vendor for less than $100 and you should be
mostly okay. That would be my least-expensive-to-deploy recommendation.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 19:23:12 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 22:23:12 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: strange pings
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309112219520.1602@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


What machine produces a ping with size=72 decimal and uninitialised packet
content = 0xAA ... I get lots of these. What are they ? Should I set
uninitialized space in my reply to 0xAA and see what happens/follows ?
<evil grin>

Normal pings have size=56 (64 including header) and uninitialised packet
bytes are 0x00.

Peter
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 19:53:43 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 15:53:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: slow httpd response
Message-ID: <12730.216.138.194.32.1063310023.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


apache-1.3.27-2 on a redhat-7.3 smp system. Running php, perl on the web
server.

I'm experiencing really slow httpd responses from my webserver. The
machine it's self is running smooth and fast. The top portion of top:

 12:23pm  up 135 days,  5:13,  3 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.05, 0.01
116 processes: 115 sleeping, 1 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
CPU0 states:  0.3% user,  0.4% system,  0.0% nice, 98.3% idle
CPU1 states:  0.1% user,  0.1% system,  0.0% nice, 99.3% idle
Mem:  1289260K av, 1220880K used,   68380K free,       0K shrd,  198116K buff
Swap: 2096472K av,    1704K used, 2094768K free                  743132K
cached

Nothing significant is showing in my error or access logs or messages.
ssh, ftpd, rsync all work smooth and fast. So does mail. But the web
server has become a dog. Config files all look okay.

The question I have is where to look next? How to track the specific
process it's crapping out on?

It's a multi-domain system with most user access limited to ftp with
vsftpd. It's a pretty tight system security-wise, and it's clean.

TIA

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 20:18:57 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 16:18:57 -0400
Subject: slow httpd response
In-Reply-To: <12730.216.138.194.32.1063310023.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <12730.216.138.194.32.1063310023.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <1063311538.32046.16.camel@yoda>

How are the other services on the system?

I suspect that everything else is okay, but apache is slow.  If so, have
a look at your httpd.conf.  There might be something like a reverse dns
lookup per connection that's slowing it down.

Good luck!

Kareem


On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 15:53, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
> apache-1.3.27-2 on a redhat-7.3 smp system. Running php, perl on the web
> server.
> 
> I'm experiencing really slow httpd responses from my webserver. The
> machine it's self is running smooth and fast. The top portion of top:
> 
>  12:23pm  up 135 days,  5:13,  3 users,  load average: 0.01, 0.05, 0.01
> 116 processes: 115 sleeping, 1 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
> CPU0 states:  0.3% user,  0.4% system,  0.0% nice, 98.3% idle
> CPU1 states:  0.1% user,  0.1% system,  0.0% nice, 99.3% idle
> Mem:  1289260K av, 1220880K used,   68380K free,       0K shrd,  198116K buff
> Swap: 2096472K av,    1704K used, 2094768K free                  743132K
> cached
> 
> Nothing significant is showing in my error or access logs or messages.
> ssh, ftpd, rsync all work smooth and fast. So does mail. But the web
> server has become a dog. Config files all look okay.
> 
> The question I have is where to look next? How to track the specific
> process it's crapping out on?
> 
> It's a multi-domain system with most user access limited to ftp with
> vsftpd. It's a pretty tight system security-wise, and it's clean.
> 
> TIA
> 
> -- 
> Keith Mastin
> BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> Toronto, Canada
> (416)696 6070
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  In the beginning the Universe was created.  This has made a
  lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
    -- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 ********************************************************************/

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 20:23:00 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:23:00 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: firewall hammering
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309112320500.1619@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


This is getting better and better. Someone is spoofing himself as
127.0.0.1 and his packets were routed to my modem connection by my isp !!
I'm reporting this right now (what virus thing is on 1978 ?!):

(line from logs):

DENY PROTO=6 127.0.0.1:80 192.115.24.57:1978

Peter
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 20:24:38 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:24:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Out of Office Replies
In-Reply-To: <3F60A803.7020804-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030910090613.32136ce4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <200309101100.43048.fraser@wehave.net> <3F5F5608.4020909@rogers.com>
 <3F60A803.7020804@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309111622520.28388@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003, Mike Kallies wrote:

> Out of office should _never_ be used outside of the company.

And inside the company there are better ways to advise who is away on
leave.

The vacation(1) program is pretty smart at detecting mailing lists I
think.  It predates most of the MS-Windows vacation notifies by 20 years
or more and is still smarter than them :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 22:51:05 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 18:51:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Qmail folders
Message-ID: <1471.192.168.0.99.1063320665.squirrel@cbits.ca>

Hi all, I have succesfully installed qmail/courier-imap and squirrelmail
on Gentoo 1.4 and got my DNS MX records setup properly. I can send and
receive mail without any problems, however, I only have an INBOX. I don't
have a DRAFTS, SENT, or TRASH folder. I try making them through
squirrelmail and I get an error message:

Quote:
ERROR : Could not complete request.
Query: CREATE ".maildir/.Sent"
Reason Given: Invalid mailbox name

BTW, I typed "Sent" and it made it ".Sent"

If I make the folder manually through a shell in my /home/user/.maildir/
directory squirrelmail doesn't even notice it.

Not only do I need these folders, I need other folders too so I can sort
my mail according to different lists I am on, just as HARDWARE and TLUG.

Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong and what I need to do.

Thanks

-Jay
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From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 11 23:52:48 2003
From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 19:52:48 -0400
Subject: Qmail folders
In-Reply-To: <1471.192.168.0.99.1063320665.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org>
References: <1471.192.168.0.99.1063320665.squirrel@cbits.ca>
Message-ID: <DGEKKLEFCNDLFOBHKLKKMECECMAA.lists@mineallmeyn.com>

Hi Jay,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of
> jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org
> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 6:51 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: Qmail folders
>
>
> Hi all, I have succesfully installed qmail/courier-imap and squirrelmail
> on Gentoo 1.4 and got my DNS MX records setup properly. I can send and
> receive mail without any problems, however, I only have an INBOX. I don't
> have a DRAFTS, SENT, or TRASH folder. I try making them through
> squirrelmail and I get an error message:
>
> Quote:
> ERROR : Could not complete request.
> Query: CREATE ".maildir/.Sent"
> Reason Given: Invalid mailbox name
>
> BTW, I typed "Sent" and it made it ".Sent"
>
> If I make the folder manually through a shell in my /home/user/.maildir/
> directory squirrelmail doesn't even notice it.
>
> Not only do I need these folders, I need other folders too so I can sort
> my mail according to different lists I am on, just as HARDWARE and TLUG.
>
> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong and what I need to do.
>

I haven't seen your problem in my setup, but could it be that you didn't use
maildirmake to create the Maildir directory that qmail likes?  If you
haven't read Life With Qmail that might be a starting point.
<http://www.lifewithqmail.org>

Cheers,
Oliver

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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 00:15:21 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:15:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Qmail folders
In-Reply-To: <DGEKKLEFCNDLFOBHKLKKMECECMAA.lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org>
References: <1471.192.168.0.99.1063320665.squirrel@cbits.ca>
    <DGEKKLEFCNDLFOBHKLKKMECECMAA.lists@mineallmeyn.com>
Message-ID: <2799.192.168.0.99.1063325721.squirrel@cbits.ca>

> Hi Jay,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of
>> jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org
>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 6:51 PM
>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>> Subject: [TLUG]: Qmail folders
>>
>>
>> Hi all, I have succesfully installed qmail/courier-imap and squirrelmail
>> on Gentoo 1.4 and got my DNS MX records setup properly. I can send and
>> receive mail without any problems, however, I only have an INBOX. I
>> don't
>> have a DRAFTS, SENT, or TRASH folder. I try making them through
>> squirrelmail and I get an error message:
>>
>> Quote:
>> ERROR : Could not complete request.
>> Query: CREATE ".maildir/.Sent"
>> Reason Given: Invalid mailbox name
>>
>> BTW, I typed "Sent" and it made it ".Sent"
>>
>> If I make the folder manually through a shell in my /home/user/.maildir/
>> directory squirrelmail doesn't even notice it.
>>
>> Not only do I need these folders, I need other folders too so I can sort
>> my mail according to different lists I am on, just as HARDWARE and TLUG.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong and what I need to do.
>>
>
> I haven't seen your problem in my setup, but could it be that you didn't
> use
> maildirmake to create the Maildir directory that qmail likes?  If you
> haven't read Life With Qmail that might be a starting point.
> <http://www.lifewithqmail.org>

I've skimmed through it, but here is the thing. When I "emerge qmail" in
gentoo it downloads, compiles, installs qmail and autmatically adds
.maildir in /etc/skel so that when I add a user the .maildir is
automatically created so I assume it works and I found no reference to
anything in the Gentoo forums.

I'll delete it and manually create one as you suggest and see if it works.

Thanks


> Cheers,
> Oliver
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 00:22:58 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 20:22:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Qmail folders
In-Reply-To: <DGEKKLEFCNDLFOBHKLKKMECECMAA.lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g@public.gmane.org>
References: <1471.192.168.0.99.1063320665.squirrel@cbits.ca>
    <DGEKKLEFCNDLFOBHKLKKMECECMAA.lists@mineallmeyn.com>
Message-ID: <33650.66.11.182.5.1063326178.squirrel@cbits.ca>

It worked! Thanks! .. why didn't I think of that!? Oh well, guess I'll let
the Gentoo team know about that

- Jay

> Hi Jay,
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of
>> jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org
>> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 6:51 PM
>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>> Subject: [TLUG]: Qmail folders
>>
>>
>> Hi all, I have succesfully installed qmail/courier-imap and squirrelmail
>> on Gentoo 1.4 and got my DNS MX records setup properly. I can send and
>> receive mail without any problems, however, I only have an INBOX. I
>> don't
>> have a DRAFTS, SENT, or TRASH folder. I try making them through
>> squirrelmail and I get an error message:
>>
>> Quote:
>> ERROR : Could not complete request.
>> Query: CREATE ".maildir/.Sent"
>> Reason Given: Invalid mailbox name
>>
>> BTW, I typed "Sent" and it made it ".Sent"
>>
>> If I make the folder manually through a shell in my /home/user/.maildir/
>> directory squirrelmail doesn't even notice it.
>>
>> Not only do I need these folders, I need other folders too so I can sort
>> my mail according to different lists I am on, just as HARDWARE and TLUG.
>>
>> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong and what I need to do.
>>
>
> I haven't seen your problem in my setup, but could it be that you didn't
> use
> maildirmake to create the Maildir directory that qmail likes?  If you
> haven't read Life With Qmail that might be a starting point.
> <http://www.lifewithqmail.org>
>
> Cheers,
> Oliver
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 01:36:38 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 11 Sep 2003 21:36:38 -0400
Subject: Qmail folders
In-Reply-To: <2799.192.168.0.99.1063325721.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org>
References: <1471.192.168.0.99.1063320665.squirrel@cbits.ca>
	<DGEKKLEFCNDLFOBHKLKKMECECMAA.lists@mineallmeyn.com> 
	<2799.192.168.0.99.1063325721.squirrel@cbits.ca>
Message-ID: <1063330598.32046.21.camel@yoda>

On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 20:15, Jay wrote:
> > Hi Jay,
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of
> >> jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org
> >> Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 6:51 PM
> >> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >> Subject: [TLUG]: Qmail folders
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi all, I have succesfully installed qmail/courier-imap and squirrelmail
> >> on Gentoo 1.4 and got my DNS MX records setup properly. I can send and
> >> receive mail without any problems, however, I only have an INBOX. I
> >> don't
> >> have a DRAFTS, SENT, or TRASH folder. I try making them through
> >> squirrelmail and I get an error message:
> >>
> >> Quote:
> >> ERROR : Could not complete request.
> >> Query: CREATE ".maildir/.Sent"
> >> Reason Given: Invalid mailbox name
> >>
> >> BTW, I typed "Sent" and it made it ".Sent"
> >>
> >> If I make the folder manually through a shell in my /home/user/.maildir/
> >> directory squirrelmail doesn't even notice it.
> >>
> >> Not only do I need these folders, I need other folders too so I can sort
> >> my mail according to different lists I am on, just as HARDWARE and TLUG.
> >>
> >> Can anyone tell me what I am doing wrong and what I need to do.
> >>
> >
> > I haven't seen your problem in my setup, but could it be that you didn't
> > use
> > maildirmake to create the Maildir directory that qmail likes?  If you
> > haven't read Life With Qmail that might be a starting point.
> > <http://www.lifewithqmail.org>
> 
> I've skimmed through it, but here is the thing. When I "emerge qmail" in
> gentoo it downloads, compiles, installs qmail and autmatically adds
> .maildir in /etc/skel so that when I add a user the .maildir is
> automatically created so I assume it works and I found no reference to
> anything in the Gentoo forums.
> 
> I'll delete it and manually create one as you suggest and see if it works.

In my qmail setup, I have more in the maildir's than an empty
directory.  Also, any of the subfolders that show up in an IMAP client
start with a period, so it sounds like maildir is something slightly
more complicated that just a directory structure.

Glad to hear maildirmake worked.  I'll remember that trick for the next
system I set up.

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  In the beginning the Universe was created.  This has made a
  lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
    -- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 ********************************************************************/

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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 01:51:22 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 21:51:22 -0400
Subject: Gimp
In-Reply-To: <3F5FEFD3.9090002-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>
	<20030910010923.5c26f7e3.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<3F5F1CF5.5030906@rogers.com>
	<20030910131445.7380B6652B@cbbrowne.com>
	<20030910232718.3c84a727.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<3F5FEFD3.9090002@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030911215122.24f55d79.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Wed, 10 Sep 2003 23:45:23 -0400
Tom Legrady <legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> As wonderful as the gimp is, I tried to draw a straight line, today.
> 
> 
> Is there a simple way to draw a straight line, or do I have to explore 
> Perl-gimp? Or do it in PostScript?
> 
> 
> Tom

Tom,

   You can draw a straight line easily in Xfig.  If you are creating a drawing that requires some sort of geometric precision and artistic quality, I recommend Xfig.  Xfig dumps straight to the printer.  It can be saved as PostScript.  

   Xfig exports to all sorts of bitmap formats which can be read by the GIMP.  There are two general ways to approach this.  Xfig's export program is external, called fig2dev.  This means that an Xfig graphic can be converted for web page use by a Makefile.  An alternate, and better strategy is to make the Xfig file much larger than the final, printed bitmap graphic.  Save it is a PPM or other lossless bitmap format.  Load the file into the GIMP and scale it to the final size.  The GIMP does anti-aliasing, which makes your reduced graphic look much better. 

   At this point you play with the GIMP's filters.  I am not an expert on this, yet.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep  9 00:06:26 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (captn_silver)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 20:06:26 -0400
Subject: wireless/broadband router recommendations?
References: <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com> <20030903165908.BGKK7257.tomts26-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]> <1062609253.7076.123.camel@yoda> <m3n0diiokp.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com> <5.2.0.9.0.20030908195422.0b4753f8@localhost>
Message-ID: <000001c378cf$d35b8660$0200a8c0@viper>

I also recommend the SMC7004.  I used to use the Airport Snow as my IPMASQ
router to the internet.
and even with updated firmware, it would not process SMTP out mail to
Sympatico. I know ALL about
port 25 filtering, and what sympatico is doing about that.   I have
installed about 3 SMC routers, and zero
problems.

All I know is that when I replaced the Airport Snow, with the SMC router,
outgoing SMTP email
was able to be sent. I figure there was some weird MTU or firmware error,
with the Typhoon software that
Sympatico was using. (might have been some other sw package, I really dont
care now since I am on a different
system now)

Was kinda cool to walk around the house with the wireless computers and have
internet access...Weak signal though.
Even a solid door killed the signal.

Why wasnt i using a  Linux box? Well at that time I was still scared of
Rogers and Bells Network Security...


----- Original Message -----
From: "CLIFFORD ILKAY" <clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: wireless/broadband router recommendations?


> At 08:00 AM 07/09/2003 -0400, James Knott wrote:
> >Greg Franks wrote:
> >
> >>The Linksys wireless router and WAP both work fine with mac's.
> >
> >
> >FWIW, Best Buy has an SMC 7004VWBR wireless router on sale at $89.00,
> >until next Thursday and it comes with a $60 rebate from SMC.  If they're
> >out of stock, you can get a rain cheque.  I picked one up on Friday and
it
> >works fine with Linux and lists Mac OS on the box.  However, these boxes
> >tend to be OS neutral.  As long as you have a Java enabled browser, you
> >can configure it.
>
> Can you run it strictly as a WAP?
>
> Regards,
>
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis Corporation
> 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
> Toronto, Ontario
> Canada M4N 3P6
>
> Tel: 416-410-3326
>
> mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org
>
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 03:30:59 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 23:30:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: scheduling problem solved
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309112330260.3439@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

http://www.gtabug.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=24&newlang=eng

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 13:19:48 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: 12 Sep 2003 09:19:48 -0400
Subject: strange pings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309112219520.1602-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309112219520.1602@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <1063372788.3613.1.camel@linux.local>

This may contain some information related.

"NetBIOS Data Link Switching"
http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=0xAA+%2272+bytes%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=9ni1iso0mjc4rl8bl0438u2jpj7cifj7iu%40trollslayer&rnum=6


On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 15:23, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> What machine produces a ping with size=72 decimal and uninitialised packet
> content = 0xAA ... I get lots of these. What are they ? Should I set
> uninitialized space in my reply to 0xAA and see what happens/follows ?
> <evil grin>
> 
> Normal pings have size=56 (64 including header) and uninitialised packet
> bytes are 0x00.
> 
> Peter
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 16:42:32 2003
From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 12:42:32 -0400
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <3F5E85BC.5030807-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F61F778.2030902@idirect.com>

Moniz wrote:
> I'm looking for software that will make greeting cards - something that 
> is made for it, not just a graphics program like The GIMP.  The only 
> thing I could find that might do the trick is Scribus, but looking at 
> their website, it doesn't specifically mention that it does greeting 
> cards. Does anyone know if Scribus has a tool for greeting cards? Or 
> another software?

Someone already mentioned Open Office, but nobody specifically pointed 
to Open Office Draw.

I've been using the program for everything from creating very detailed 
text forms, prototyping art-type-stuff, stitching panoramas and 
posterizing bitmaps, it may not be the best tool for the stuff I 
mentioned, but I have found it good at all of them.

Even stitching panoramas in the GIMP is a PITA because of the sheer 
memory usage in the multiple layers for the photos in the shot.  The 
only thing I can't get OO Draw to do is to warp or deform bitmaps in a 
controlled manner.

A simple greeting card should be trivial in the program.

-Mike

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 17:52:35 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:52:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <3F61F778.2030902-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>
        <3F61F778.2030902@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <14981.216.138.194.32.1063389155.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<snip>
> Even stitching panoramas in the GIMP is a PITA because of the sheer
> memory usage in the multiple layers for the photos in the shot.  The
> only thing I can't get OO Draw to do is to warp or deform bitmaps in a
> controlled manner.

Can the gimp warp bitmaps for 360i? I have some proprietary software that
has a few problems when warping.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 19:56:50 2003
From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:56:50 -0400
Subject: Scribus
In-Reply-To: <14981.216.138.194.32.1063389155.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E85BC.5030807@sympatico.ca>        <3F61F778.2030902@idirect.com> <14981.216.138.194.32.1063389155.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F622502.90402@idirect.com>

Keith Mastin wrote:
> Can the gimp warp bitmaps for 360i? I have some proprietary software that
> has a few problems when warping.

I haven't done anything very exciting with panoramas in the GIMP, I've 
just done a little bit of retouching and rather crude manual warping.

But on my to-do list... a while back there was a lot of rant regarding a 
fellow producing a set of filters and some patent holder smiting his 
creation:

http://www.sslug.dk/patent/fri-software-med-problemer

But just now that you mention it, I think I found a mirror(!)...

http://home.no.net/dmaurer/%7Edersch/Index.htm

When I have some time, I'm going to give this stuff a whirl.

-Mike

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From bcole-I83zIuGgnFqw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 22:26:38 2003
From: bcole-I83zIuGgnFqw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:26:38 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <3F622502.90402-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F622502.90402@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <BFEAJOMMJLIOEKBFGOKAOEEAFLAA.bcole@plumcom.ca>

A while back there was a thread where someone had located a supplier of high
speed service with Static IP addresses at a reasonable monthly charge. Does
anyone recall who that company is and what their rates are? I know I should
have saved that message from last year. :-)

Bruce




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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 12 23:06:34 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 19:06:34 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <BFEAJOMMJLIOEKBFGOKAOEEAFLAA.bcole-I83zIuGgnFqw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <BFEAJOMMJLIOEKBFGOKAOEEAFLAA.bcole@plumcom.ca>
Message-ID: <000001c37982$83922bd0$0200a8c0@viper>


I was happy enough to get 3MB ADSL, static IP for less than $60 a month.
Downloading at almost 400KB/sec is really motoring..


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Bruce
Cole at plumcom.ca
Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 6:27 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: high speed DSL connectivity


A while back there was a thread where someone had located a supplier of
high speed service with Static IP addresses at a reasonable monthly
charge. Does anyone recall who that company is and what their rates are?
I know I should have saved that message from last year. :-)

Bruce




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From offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 01:20:07 2003
From: offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 18:20:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <BFEAJOMMJLIOEKBFGOKAOEEAFLAA.bcole-I83zIuGgnFqw5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <BFEAJOMMJLIOEKBFGOKAOEEAFLAA.bcole@plumcom.ca>
Message-ID: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com>


--- "Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca" <bcole-I83zIuGgnFqw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>
wrote:
> A while back there was a thread where someone had
> located a supplier of high
> speed service with Static IP addresses at a
> reasonable monthly charge. Does
> anyone recall who that company is and what their
> rates are? I know I should
> have saved that message from last year. :-)

I have used Istop for over a year now and have been
happy with the service. $30/month plus $4/month for a
static IP, and you can use your own DSL modem.

http://www.istop.com/status.html

Daniel

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 03:05:25 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jay Carson)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 23:05:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030913012007.63378.qmail-hmttalUVaHaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <BFEAJOMMJLIOEKBFGOKAOEEAFLAA.bcole@plumcom.ca>
    <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2262.192.168.0.99.1063422325.squirrel@cbits.ca>

>
> --- "Bruce Cole at plumcom.ca" <bcole-I83zIuGgnFqw5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>> A while back there was a thread where someone had
>> located a supplier of high
>> speed service with Static IP addresses at a
>> reasonable monthly charge. Does
>> anyone recall who that company is and what their
>> rates are? I know I should
>> have saved that message from last year. :-)
>
> I have used Istop for over a year now and have been
> happy with the service. $30/month plus $4/month for a
> static IP, and you can use your own DSL modem.
>
> http://www.istop.com/status.html
>
> Daniel

Me too

> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
> http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 11:08:08 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 07:08:08 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <12509.216.138.194.32.1063305556.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030904144456.05a36b28@localhost>
	<Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052225550.554@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<bjknol$duk$1@sea.gmane.org>
	<12509.216.138.194.32.1063305556.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20030913070808.1351a02d.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:39:16 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Put one of these behind a little firewall/router do-hickey from
> netgear, linksys or any other favored vendor for less than $100 and
> you should be mostly okay. That would be my least-expensive-to-deploy
> recommendation.

orrrrrr, even cheaper if ya got tha hardware lyin around, no HD or CD
needed, and only 16 -32 RAM will do the trick:

http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ (relatively easy)

http://www.bbiagent.net/ (dead simple)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
God made everything out of nothing, but the nothingness shows through.
		-- Paul Valery
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From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 13:14:21 2003
From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:14:21 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <20030913070808.1351a02d.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913070808.1351a02d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <001801c379f8$f27b4100$6501a8c0@plex8>


Now that BBIAgent is an interesting tool, isn't it???  Fill in a description
of your network cards (3COM, D-LINK, etc.), how you connect to the internet
(ADSL, PPPoE, etc.), a couple of extra parameters (DHCP, DNS etc.) and then
their site automatically generates a bootable floppy image for you to
download.  Register the software for US$36 and away you go.  One small
problem - I can't seem to find the license that they use.  Since its Linux
based, they must use GPL, but you never receive a copy of the agreement
*and* I can't seem to find the source anywhere on their site.

Hmmmmm...


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of JoeHill
Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 07:08 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Re:Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 14:39:16 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Put one of these behind a little firewall/router do-hickey from
> netgear, linksys or any other favored vendor for less than $100 and
> you should be mostly okay. That would be my least-expensive-to-deploy
> recommendation.

orrrrrr, even cheaper if ya got tha hardware lyin around, no HD or CD
needed, and only 16 -32 RAM will do the trick:

http://leaf.sourceforge.net/ (relatively easy)

http://www.bbiagent.net/ (dead simple)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
God made everything out of nothing, but the nothingness shows through.
		-- Paul Valery
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 13:23:11 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:23:11 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <001801c379f8$f27b4100$6501a8c0-hSX/aAjrQnU@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913070808.1351a02d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<001801c379f8$f27b4100$6501a8c0@plex8>
Message-ID: <20030913092311.4e1170a4.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:14:21 -0400
"Jon Thiele" <jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Now that BBIAgent is an interesting tool, isn't it???  Fill in a
> description of your network cards (3COM, D-LINK, etc.), how you
> connect to the internet(ADSL, PPPoE, etc.), a couple of extra
> parameters (DHCP, DNS etc.) and then their site automatically
> generates a bootable floppy image for you to download.  Register the
> software for US$36 and away you go.  One small problem - I can't seem
> to find the license that they use.  Since its Linux based, they must
> use GPL, but you never receive a copy of the agreement*and* I can't
> seem to find the source anywhere on their site.
> 
> Hmmmmm...

Sorry, it was free when I snagged it last time, I thought they had a
free version and a "pro" version...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
	"Do you think there's a God?"
	"Well, ____SOMEbody's out to get me!"
		-- Calvin and Hobbs
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 13:42:31 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:42:31 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <001801c379f8$f27b4100$6501a8c0-hSX/aAjrQnU@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913070808.1351a02d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<001801c379f8$f27b4100$6501a8c0@plex8>
Message-ID: <20030913094231.2990efeb.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:14:21 -0400
"Jon Thiele" <jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Now that BBIAgent is an interesting tool, isn't it???  Fill in a
> description of your network cards (3COM, D-LINK, etc.), how you
> connect to the internet(ADSL, PPPoE, etc.), a couple of extra
> parameters (DHCP, DNS etc.) and then their site automatically
> generates a bootable floppy image for you to download.  Register the
> software for US$36 and away you go.  One small problem - I can't seem
> to find the license that they use.  Since its Linux based, they must
> use GPL, but you never receive a copy of the agreement*and* I can't
> seem to find the source anywhere on their site.

did you try downloading and running the BBIsetup.jar?

no charge for dat...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Death is nature's way of telling you to slow down.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 13:48:51 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:48:51 -0400
Subject: Port Forwarding vs. Running Servers on Firewall
In-Reply-To: <001801c379f8$f27b4100$6501a8c0-hSX/aAjrQnU@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913070808.1351a02d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<001801c379f8$f27b4100$6501a8c0@plex8>
Message-ID: <20030913094851.708e17f5.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 09:14:21 -0400
"Jon Thiele" <jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Hmmmmm...

Downloaded, ran, configured, receiving image as we speak...no $.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Disease can be cured; fate is incurable.
		-- Chinese proverb
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From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 22:02:27 2003
From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:02:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030913012007.63378.qmail-hmttalUVaHaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Daniel Armstrong wrote:

> 
> I have used Istop for over a year now and have been
> happy with the service. $30/month plus $4/month for a
> static IP, and you can use your own DSL modem.
> 
> http://www.istop.com/status.html
> 

OK.  Let's see if I get this right: ISP is charging you $48/year to change
ONE line of .conf ONCE.  That boggles the mind.  That is the promised land
of infinite markup.  It is cheaper for the ISP to use static IP.  

The customer has to go through all sorts of contortions and confusions to
deal with dynamic IP.  DHCP is, if I'm not mistaken, a relic of a bygone
dialup age.

They charge you EXTRA for BD/SM.

And then you praise the least costly.






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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 22:09:58 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:09:58 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <1063490998.1181.0.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2003-09-13 at 18:02, Max Blanco wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Daniel Armstrong wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I have used Istop for over a year now and have been
> > happy with the service. $30/month plus $4/month for a
> > static IP, and you can use your own DSL modem.
> > 
> > http://www.istop.com/status.html
> > 
> 
> OK.  Let's see if I get this right: ISP is charging you $48/year to change
> ONE line of .conf ONCE.  That boggles the mind.  That is the promised land
> of infinite markup.  It is cheaper for the ISP to use static IP.  
> 
> The customer has to go through all sorts of contortions and confusions to
> deal with dynamic IP.  DHCP is, if I'm not mistaken, a relic of a bygone
> dialup age.
> 
> They charge you EXTRA for BD/SM.
> 
> And then you praise the least costly.

And you offer what alternative?  Use which ISP? 

Cheers,
Lloyd

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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 01:33:25 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:33:25 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
Message-ID: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main>

Hi all. I currently run a server farm in a small Northern Ontario town.
I have been approached by the town and asked if I could offer high speed
(or higher than dialup) to the 4,000 or so people who live in the town,
an area of about 5km. My building is located near the center of the
town, and does not have direct line of site to a lot of the town, yet
there are no major structural impedances. Does anyone have an idea of
how I could get this working? From what I assume, I could put up an
extra server to act as a gateway to my switches and from there to the
routers. On the other end of the server, I would run an antenna on the
roof from a wireless router type box. (I have been looking at the D-Link
ANT24-1801 Yagi antenna for a base or the SMC SMCANT-DI105 10.5 dBi
Antenna or the SMCANT-DI145 High Gain 14.5 dBi Antenna - which they
claim can reach 9 miles without LOS) Once the main base is set up with
enough power, I would like to be able to install a smaller wireless
antenna attached to a router in the persons office/home. I am looking to
do a dry run with about 50 antennas and routers, and expand from there.
Any suggestions regarding the backend of the service to control access
and services? Any alt hardware? Is there a P2P solution for this which
would allow users to boost each others signals?

As always, any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Sid


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 03:09:24 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 23:09:24 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <3F63DBE4.2010905@rogers.com>

Max Blanco wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Daniel Armstrong wrote:
> 
> 
>>I have used Istop for over a year now and have been
>>happy with the service. $30/month plus $4/month for a
>>static IP, and you can use your own DSL modem.
>>
>>http://www.istop.com/status.html
>>
> 
> 
> OK.  Let's see if I get this right: ISP is charging you $48/year to change
> ONE line of .conf ONCE.  That boggles the mind.  That is the promised land
> of infinite markup.  It is cheaper for the ISP to use static IP.  

How is it cheaper, when they have to assign addresses etc?  The main 
point of dhcp is to relieve them of that administration issue.
> 
> The customer has to go through all sorts of contortions and confusions to
> deal with dynamic IP.  DHCP is, if I'm not mistaken, a relic of a bygone
> dialup age.

DHCP is an extension of BOOTP and has always been used on lans.  It is 
not normally used on dial up lines.  While a dial up customer may see 
different IPs, that's only because he connected to a different phone 
line.  At the ISP, the IP addresses are assigned to the phone lines and 
there's no reason for them to change and many reasons why a phone line 
should always keep the same IP.



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From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 06:23:10 2003
From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 01:23:10 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: ntsc framebuffer modes
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0309140122280.25374-100000@pixelated>

hey

im trying to build a mame cabinet using a radeon 7000 card with tvout and
a c64 monitor

(i have an all in wonder with r128 chipset 2)

advancemame looks fine with the radeonfb driver on a vga monitor.

my question:

has anyone gotten tvout to work w/framebuffer?
(advmame cant use the vesa driver)

i get an image but the timings are off and the examples included in
fb.modes.NTSC in the fb dox dont work. as far as i can tell the modes
shouldnt be card specific.

does anyone have a working fb.modes for ntsc output?

the console displays fine on the commodore until the driver is loaded.

thx
bonnie
http://misterbonnie.com












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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 15:31:34 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 11:31:34 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <000001c37982$83922bd0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37982$83922bd0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <003b01c37ad5$4b428820$6401a8c0@main>



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Teddy
> Mills
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 7:07 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: RE: [TLUG]: high speed DSL connectivity
> 
> 
> I was happy enough to get 3MB ADSL, static IP for less than $60 a
month.
> Downloading at almost 400KB/sec is really motoring..
> 

Which service provider do you use? Is there a cap on download limits?

Sid


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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 23:46:45 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 19:46:45 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20030914234645.GA11989@m450>

On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 06:02:27PM -0400, Max Blanco wrote
> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Daniel Armstrong wrote:
> 
> > 
> > I have used Istop for over a year now and have been
> > happy with the service. $30/month plus $4/month for a
> > static IP, and you can use your own DSL modem.
> > 
> > http://www.istop.com/status.html
> > 
> 
> OK.  Let's see if I get this right: ISP is charging you $48/year to change
> ONE line of .conf ONCE.  That boggles the mind.  That is the promised land
> of infinite markup.  It is cheaper for the ISP to use static IP.  
> 
> The customer has to go through all sorts of contortions and confusions to
> deal with dynamic IP.  DHCP is, if I'm not mistaken, a relic of a bygone
> dialup age.
> 
> They charge you EXTRA for BD/SM.
> 
> And then you praise the least costly.

  Try getting *ANY* 1.5 megabit service for $33.95/month.  That is a
very small set.  Now throw in static IP.  If you can find a better
deal... etc.  Part of the problem is that there is a highly artificial
shortage of IPV4 addresses, aided and abbetted by companies with a
financial interest in the implementation of IPV6.  Thus static IP
addresses cost money to obtain.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 01:26:42 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:26:42 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <20030915012642.GB11989@m450>

On Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 09:33:25PM -0400, Sidney Shapiro wrote

> Any alt hardware?

  How uptodate is the local cable and/or telephone plant in this town ?
Has anyone looked at pricing out a couple of DSLAMs hooked up to the CO
of the local telephone company ?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 01:53:04 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:53:04 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030914234645.GA11989-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <20030914234645.GA11989@m450>
Message-ID: <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca>

On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 07:46:45PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
>   Try getting *ANY* 1.5 megabit service for $33.95/month.  That is a
> very small set.  Now throw in static IP.  If you can find a better
> deal... etc.  Part of the problem is that there is a highly artificial
> shortage of IPV4 addresses, aided and abbetted by companies with a
> financial interest in the implementation of IPV6.  Thus static IP
> addresses cost money to obtain.

Who exactly has a financial interest in ipv6? It's the other way in fact,
implementing ipv6 would be quite expensive. That's why we don't have ipv6
here. Maybe in North America we don't have a shortage of addresses at the
moment, but the big problem is in Europe and Asia. Especially in Asia,
where the number of people wanting internet access is growing very
quickly.

In fact, companies have a financial interest to stay with ipv4. They can
charge you 5bux for an ip address and justify it.

-cgm.
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From hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 13:47:58 2003
From: hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 09:47:58 -0400
Subject: Acer Notebook
In-Reply-To: <20030915012642.GB11989-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main> <20030915012642.GB11989@m450>
Message-ID: <3F64718E.1090503@rogers.com>

I am thinking about buying an Acer Notebook (Aspire 1304XC) for my 
wife.  I don't know if I will install Linux right away, but I want to 
have the option available.  That brings me to two questions:
1) Does anyone have warnings, experience, input or opinions about this 
model or Acer notebooks in general?
2) Does anyone have experience or input on Linux on Acer notebooks?
Looking to get it this week unless I get some reasons not to.

Thanks,
Jay H

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 01:55:22 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:55:22 -0400
Subject: Acer Notebook
In-Reply-To: <3F64718E.1090503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main> <20030915012642.GB11989@m450> <3F64718E.1090503@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F651C0A.2040003@rogers.com>

Jay wrote:
> I am thinking about buying an Acer Notebook (Aspire 1304XC) for my 
> wife.  I don't know if I will install Linux right away, but I want to 
> have the option available.  That brings me to two questions:
> 1) Does anyone have warnings, experience, input or opinions about this 
> model or Acer notebooks in general?
> 2) Does anyone have experience or input on Linux on Acer notebooks?
> Looking to get it this week unless I get some reasons not to.

Three years ago, in the Linux section of Comdex Canada, there was a draw 
for a Linux equipped notebook computer.  IIRC, it was an Acer, but I 
can't say for certain.  All I can say for sure, is that I didn't win it. 
  ;-)




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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:00:48 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:00:48 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030915015304.GA4790-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <20030914234645.GA11989@m450> <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <3F651D50.6080702@rogers.com>

Chris MacDonald wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 07:46:45PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
>>  Try getting *ANY* 1.5 megabit service for $33.95/month.  That is a
>>very small set.  Now throw in static IP.  If you can find a better
>>deal... etc.  Part of the problem is that there is a highly artificial
>>shortage of IPV4 addresses, aided and abbetted by companies with a
>>financial interest in the implementation of IPV6.  Thus static IP
>>addresses cost money to obtain.
> 
> 
> Who exactly has a financial interest in ipv6? It's the other way in fact,
> implementing ipv6 would be quite expensive. That's why we don't have ipv6
> here. Maybe in North America we don't have a shortage of addresses at the
> moment, but the big problem is in Europe and Asia. Especially in Asia,
> where the number of people wanting internet access is growing very
> quickly.
> 
> In fact, companies have a financial interest to stay with ipv4. They can
> charge you 5bux for an ip address and justify it.

Part of the problem is with the way the addresses were distributed. 
Many companies grabbed large blocks early on.  For example, IBM has the 
entire 9.x.x.x range.  I don't think even IBM has 16M hosts on line.



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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:15:22 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:15:22 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <3F651D50.6080702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <20030914234645.GA11989@m450> <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca> <3F651D50.6080702@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030915021522.GA29121@anarchy.ca>

On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 10:00:48PM -0400, James Knott wrote:
> Part of the problem is with the way the addresses were distributed. 
> Many companies grabbed large blocks early on.  For example, IBM has the 
> entire 9.x.x.x range.  I don't think even IBM has 16M hosts on line.

The problem is we're still using an old protocol. We should move on to
something new, and much better. It's not just larger addresses that is
good, it offers many other features which are nice.

And ipv6 lets you have lots of addresses. So IBM has 16M addresses
assigned to them. I have an ipv6 block assigned to me that gives me 64
bits of address space. 2^64 is a lot bigger than 16 million.

A Toronto based dsl provider, dsl.ca, recently got an IPv6 prefix assigned
to them, and it was actually globally routable for a brief period.
Unfortunately they got taken over by another isp and any hope of them
offering ipv6 connectivity has vanished.

-cgm.
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:16:28 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:16:28 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <200309142216.28696.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 13 September 2003 18:02, Max Blanco wrote:

> OK.  Let's see if I get this right: ISP is charging you $48/year to change
> ONE line of .conf ONCE.  That boggles the mind.  That is the promised land
> of infinite markup.  It is cheaper for the ISP to use static IP.  

Not likely, although I suspect it makes little difference considering the 
number of people that care whether their address is static. 

Even with high speed, not 100% of customers are online 100% of the time, 
dynamic IPs reduce the number of IPs required.  With a static IP they have to 
guarantee a customer that IP which gives them one less for other customers.

> The customer has to go through all sorts of contortions and confusions to
> deal with dynamic IP.  DHCP is, if I'm not mistaken, a relic of a bygone
> dialup age.

No dhcp is a protocol for assigning IP addresses on ethernet networks (perhaps 
others?), it is far from obsolete.  Never heard of it being used with dialup 
but who knows.

In this neck of the woods, no matter what ISP you use, for DSL service I have 
a suspicion that you'd end up using pppoe (whether for static or dynamic IP).  
In other parts of the country/world dhcp is sometimes used for DSL IP 
assignment.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:16:39 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:16:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: IPv6 (was Re:high speed DSL connectivity)
In-Reply-To: <20030915021522.GA29121-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030915021522.GA29121@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030914221405.9463C-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Chris MacDonald wrote:
> The problem is we're still using an old protocol. We should move on to
> something new, and much better. It's not just larger addresses that is
> good, it offers many other features which are nice.

Unfortunately, the IPv4 people have been very clever about finding ways to
adapt those nice features to IPv4, which has rather reduced the incentive
for IPv6.  Not all of the neat stuff has made the transition, because some
of it just plain relies on the huge IPv6 address space, but a lot has.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:22:20 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:22:20 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: Message from Chris MacDonald <cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 53:04 EDT." <20030915015304.GA4790-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <20030914234645.GA11989@m450>  <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <20030915022221.71FB74412@cbbrowne.com>

Chris MacDonald wrote:
> Who exactly has a financial interest in ipv6? It's the other way in
> fact, implementing ipv6 would be quite expensive. That's why we don't
> have ipv6 here. Maybe in North America we don't have a shortage of
> addresses at the moment, but the big problem is in Europe and
> Asia. Especially in Asia, where the number of people wanting internet
> access is growing very quickly.
> 
> In fact, companies have a financial interest to stay with ipv4. They
> can charge you 5bux for an ip address and justify it.

Just so.

And there is a _considerable_ cost to jumping to IPv6, in that there is
a whole lot of hardware out there that doesn't know about it.  

Routers, and legacy boxes running all sorts of OSes (possibly even
including Linux!)  that would be inconvenient and expensive to upgrade.

Making the change across the board would lead to all sorts of kicking
and screaming, all around the world.  I'm not sure that the Root Servers
know how to play with IPv6 addresses, and the move would be likely to
cause a whole lot of grief, whenever it happens.
--
If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/x.html
God is a comedian, playing to an audience too afraid to laugh.
-- Voltaire
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:23:52 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:23:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200309142216.28696.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309142216.28696.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030914221748.9463D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> In this neck of the woods, no matter what ISP you use, for DSL service I have 
> a suspicion that you'd end up using pppoe (whether for static or dynamic IP).

No, definitely not true.  I have DSL without PPPoE.

Whether you can avoid PPPoE *cheaply* -- at home rather than business
prices -- is, however, another question entirely.  (Partly because the
desire to do so, like the desire for static IP addresses, signals that you
are a different class of customer, likely to work the network harder.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:35:17 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:35:17 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200309142216.28696.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <200309142216.28696.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F652565.2050607@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:

>>The customer has to go through all sorts of contortions and confusions to
>>deal with dynamic IP.  DHCP is, if I'm not mistaken, a relic of a bygone
>>dialup age.
> 
> 
> No dhcp is a protocol for assigning IP addresses on ethernet networks (perhaps 
> others?), it is far from obsolete.  Never heard of it being used with dialup 
> but who knows.

It certainly works on token ring.

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 02:52:44 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 22:52:44 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030914221748.9463D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030914221748.9463D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <200309142252.44724.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 14 September 2003 22:23, Henry Spencer wrote:

> > In this neck of the woods, no matter what ISP you use, for DSL service I
> > have a suspicion that you'd end up using pppoe (whether for static or
> > dynamic IP).
>
> No, definitely not true.  I have DSL without PPPoE.
>
> Whether you can avoid PPPoE *cheaply* -- at home rather than business
> prices -- is, however, another question entirely.  (Partly because the
> desire to do so, like the desire for static IP addresses, signals that you
> are a different class of customer, likely to work the network harder.)

Right, but in your case was it a custom order, you dealing directly with the 
ISP and requesting a specific type of service?

I had assumed that the more expensive business services (say ones giving you a 
small static subnet) were still pppoe underneath just with a smarter "modem" 
hiding the details.  Is that wrong?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 14:22:00 2003
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:22:00 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200309142252.44724.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>; from fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 10:52:44PM -0400
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030914221748.9463D-100000@spsystems.net> <200309142252.44724.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030915102200.L6785@leftmind.net>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> I had assumed that the more expensive business services (say ones giving
> you a 
> small static subnet) were still pppoe underneath just with a smarter "modem" 
> hiding the details.  Is that wrong?

There are two higher-speed services, one being PPPOE underneath, and the
other being delivered as raw ethernet.  However, the latter requires Bell
to manually configure a route through their ATM[0] backbone and costs a
lot more.  The financial incentives indicate that DSL will mean PPPOE,
unless you're willing to pay extra not to have to deal with it.

[0] Asyncronous Transfer Mode, not cash machines, if anyone was wondering.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 14:40:33 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:40:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030915021522.GA29121-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
        <20030914234645.GA11989@m450>
        <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca>
        <3F651D50.6080702@rogers.com>
        <20030915021522.GA29121@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <21762.216.138.194.32.1063636833.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> A Toronto based dsl provider, dsl.ca, recently got an IPv6 prefix
> assigned to them, and it was actually globally routable for a brief
> period. Unfortunately they got taken over by another isp and any hope of
> them offering ipv6 connectivity has vanished.

With the way that wiznet has been conducting their business, it will be a
wnder if they survive the next year.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 14:56:24 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 10:56:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200309142252.44724.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309142252.44724.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030915104905.18142B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> > No, definitely not true.  I have DSL without PPPoE.
> > Whether you can avoid PPPoE *cheaply*...
> 
> Right, but in your case was it a custom order, you dealing directly with the 
> ISP and requesting a specific type of service?

No, it was a standard (business-class) service, although not a cheap one.

> I had assumed that the more expensive business services (say ones giving you a
> small static subnet) were still pppoe underneath just with a smarter "modem" 
> hiding the details.  Is that wrong?

As Anthony has already noted, there *is* a level of service where no PPPoE
is involved at all, although it's unusual enough that extra pain is needed
to set it up. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 15:22:09 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:22:09 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <21762.216.138.194.32.1063636833.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <20030915021522.GA29121@anarchy.ca> <21762.216.138.194.32.1063636833.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <200309151122.09541.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 15 September 2003 10:40, Keith Mastin wrote:
> > A Toronto based dsl provider, dsl.ca, recently got an IPv6 prefix
> > assigned to them, and it was actually globally routable for a brief
> > period. Unfortunately they got taken over by another isp and any hope of
> > them offering ipv6 connectivity has vanished.
>
> With the way that wiznet has been conducting their business, it will be a
> wnder if they survive the next year.

Or until the end of this year ...

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 17:51:08 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 13:51:08 -0400
Subject: Acer Notebook
In-Reply-To: <3F64718E.1090503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main>
 <20030915012642.GB11989@m450>
 <3F64718E.1090503@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.0.20030915134726.09339850@localhost>

At 09:47 AM 14/09/2003, Jay wrote:
>I am thinking about buying an Acer Notebook (Aspire 1304XC) for my 
>wife.  I don't know if I will install Linux right away, but I want to have 
>the option available.  That brings me to two questions:
>1) Does anyone have warnings, experience, input or opinions about this 
>model or Acer notebooks in general?
>2) Does anyone have experience or input on Linux on Acer notebooks?
>Looking to get it this week unless I get some reasons not to.

Hi,

If you are buying this from a place where you can actually see and touch 
the computer, take along a Knoppix CD and see how it works. Knoppix is very 
good at autodetecting hardware so it should give you an idea of how viable 
that machine is for running Linux. Potential trouble spots are Winmodems 
and some soft NICs but those can be addressed by installing a supported PC 
Card NIC and modem.

Regards,


Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 18:10:02 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:10:02 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: strange pings
In-Reply-To: <1063372788.3613.1.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309112219520.1602@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <1063372788.3613.1.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309152107410.2558@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Jason, thanks for the input, but this does not seem to be it. It's more
likely a Kazaa 'feature' (see aa in Kazaa). There seem to be several Kazaa
servers and slaves on this network and they are pinging each other ? I'm
going to read up on Kazaa mechanisms. This pinging is annoying.

Peter

On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Jason Shein wrote:

> This may contain some information related.
>
> "NetBIOS Data Link Switching"
> http://groups.google.ca/groups?q=0xAA+%2272+bytes%22&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=9ni1iso0mjc4rl8bl0438u2jpj7cifj7iu%40trollslayer&rnum=6
>
>
> On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 15:23, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > What machine produces a ping with size=72 decimal and uninitialised packet
> > content = 0xAA ... I get lots of these. What are they ? Should I set
> > uninitialized space in my reply to 0xAA and see what happens/follows ?
> > <evil grin>
> >
> > Normal pings have size=56 (64 including header) and uninitialised packet
> > bytes are 0x00.
> >
> > Peter
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> --
> " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
>         And decide to replace them with something stronger"
>    (o_
>    //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
>    V_/_
>                                   Jason Shein
>                          Linux Registered User #281100
>                               jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
>
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 13:19:26 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:19:26 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
Message-ID: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: Hello Kittyhawk <bdb-kaHArmVdobf+tgX9ZMyQAB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org>
To: u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org
Subject: [u-u] SCO event :|
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 14:15:00 -0400


SCO is having a tour Toronto Oct. 7 -


https://vrs.verite.com/sco/index.cfm?action=register&event_id=120&lcode=enu


let's all go & heckle them mercilessly :)


O .		Bruce Becker	Toronto, Ontario	+1 416 410 0879
  o  _///_ //	Email: bdb-kaHArmVdobf+tgX9ZMyQAB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org
   <`)=  _<<	WEB: http://www.fukthe.us
      \\\  \\	"It's all over now, baby blue" - Lee Harvey Oswald Spengler
_______________________________________________
u-u mailing list
u-u-nUbHFpetmNumKAeH2fHhIti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org
https://unixunanimous.org/mailman/listinfo/u-u

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From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 19:10:53 2003
From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 15:10:53 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <1063631965.1502.0.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <DGEKKLEFCNDLFOBHKLKKKEHLCMAA.lists@mineallmeyn.com>

> 
> SCO is having a tour Toronto Oct. 7 -
> 
> 
> https://vrs.verite.com/sco/index.cfm?action=register&event_id=120&
> lcode=enu
> 
Hehe,

and What's That Site Running?
<http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=vrs.verite.com>
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 15:27:27 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 11:27:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <21762.216.138.194.32.1063636833.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>       
 <20030914234645.GA11989@m450>        <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca>   
     <3F651D50.6080702@rogers.com>        <20030915021522.GA29121@anarchy.ca>
 <21762.216.138.194.32.1063636833.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309151123430.26658@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > A Toronto based dsl provider, dsl.ca, recently got an IPv6 prefix
> > assigned to them, and it was actually globally routable for a brief
> > period. Unfortunately they got taken over by another isp and any hope of
> > them offering ipv6 connectivity has vanished.
>
> With the way that wiznet has been conducting their business, it will be a
> wnder if they survive the next year.

DSL.ca and Velocet went bankrupt in March of this year and retained PWC to
discharge the bankruptcy.  Bell was owed over $1M between the 2 companies.
(IStop.com was a creditor too, so we got the full list of creditors and
amounts owed).

Wiznet bought some of the assets through the trustee and had the former
company officers working for Wiznet too.  I heard Jeff cut them loose
about a month ago.

-Ralph

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 01:45:21 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 21:45:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309132140291.18548@ns.istop.com>

Bell has put DSLAMs in towns with populations less than 4,000.  If you
approach them they will likely tell you where your town fits into their
plans (assuming the town doesn't have it's own independant telco).

It would be quite wasteful to build out a wireless network only to have
ADSL become availabe shortly thereafter.  If you're still serious about
wireless, check out isp-wireless on isp-lists.com.

Depending on the location of the CO, a type-2 colo for installing ADSL and
SDSL DSLAMs may be less expensive than wireless.  And it certainly doesn't
have any requirement for LOS!

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Sidney Shapiro wrote:

> Hi all. I currently run a server farm in a small Northern Ontario town.
> I have been approached by the town and asked if I could offer high speed
> (or higher than dialup) to the 4,000 or so people who live in the town,
[...]

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 22:15:25 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 18:15:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328@ns.istop.com>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Max Blanco wrote:

> On Fri, 12 Sep 2003, Daniel Armstrong wrote:
>
> >
> > I have used Istop for over a year now and have been
> > happy with the service. $30/month plus $4/month for a
> > static IP, and you can use your own DSL modem.
> >
> > http://www.istop.com/status.html
> >
>
> OK.  Let's see if I get this right: ISP is charging you $48/year to change
> ONE line of .conf ONCE.  That boggles the mind.  That is the promised land
> of infinite markup.  It is cheaper for the ISP to use static IP.

Politely put, you're mistaken.
There is a quantifiable recurring cost of >US$2000/yr for a /20 (see
ARIN).
For dynamic IP customers the IP is assigned based on the ip local pool
command on our Cisco LNS.  For our static IP customers my sysadmin has to
allocate the next available IP based on the LNS the customer will
terminate.  Then the customer RADIUS record needs to be setup with that
IP.

When we got our portable /20 from ARIN there was a huge amount of work
involved in contacting all the static IP customers and informing them the
IP would change and when it would change.  For our dynamic IP customers it
was just a one-line change in our LNS.

I have considered a lower monthly price but with a one-time setup charge
for the static IPs, but $4/mth seems to be lower than any of my
competitors.

-Ralph
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 21:30:22 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:30:22 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <1063631965.1502.0.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20030915173022.6e46895d.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:19:26 -0400
Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> let's all go & heckle them mercilessly :)

Time for a "flash mob"!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That that is is that that is not is not.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 21:34:20 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 17:34:20 -0400
Subject: ntsc framebuffer modes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0309140122280.25374-100000-/5JsYL2DHudgoHlPtYpdqQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0309140122280.25374-100000@pixelated>
Message-ID: <20030915213420.GA7446@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 01:23:10AM -0500, misterbonnie wrote:
> hey
> 
> im trying to build a mame cabinet using a radeon 7000 card with tvout and
> a c64 monitor
> 
> (i have an all in wonder with r128 chipset 2)
> 
> advancemame looks fine with the radeonfb driver on a vga monitor.
> 
> my question:
> 
> has anyone gotten tvout to work w/framebuffer?
> (advmame cant use the vesa driver)
> 
> i get an image but the timings are off and the examples included in
> fb.modes.NTSC in the fb dox dont work. as far as i can tell the modes
> shouldnt be card specific.
> 
> does anyone have a working fb.modes for ntsc output?
> 
> the console displays fine on the commodore until the driver is loaded.

Well ATI's tend to output NTSC just fine from 640x480 @ 60hz.  They
don't tend to like most other modes for TV out, although sometimes
800x600 at 60hz works too.

Try one of those.

Lennart Sorensen
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 22:16:47 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 18:16:47 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <20030915173022.6e46895d.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	 <20030915173022.6e46895d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1063664206.30028.21.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Oh my, a flash mob where a whole bunch of us show up after lunch in
penguin get-ups! 

:)

I'm in!

Madison

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 17:30, JoeHill wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:19:26 -0400
> Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > let's all go & heckle them mercilessly :)
> 
> Time for a "flash mob"!

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 22:22:13 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:22:13 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030915102200.L6785-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030914221748.9463D-100000@spsystems.net> <200309142252.44724.fraser@wehave.net> <20030915102200.L6785@leftmind.net>
Message-ID: <3F663B95.3010501@rogers.com>

Anthony de Boer wrote:
> Fraser Campbell wrote:
> 
>>I had assumed that the more expensive business services (say ones giving
>>you a 
>>small static subnet) were still pppoe underneath just with a smarter "modem" 
>>hiding the details.  Is that wrong?
> 
> 
> There are two higher-speed services, one being PPPOE underneath, and the
> other being delivered as raw ethernet.  However, the latter requires Bell
> to manually configure a route through their ATM[0] backbone and costs a
> lot more.  The financial incentives indicate that DSL will mean PPPOE,
> unless you're willing to pay extra not to have to deal with it.
> 
> [0] Asyncronous Transfer Mode, not cash machines, if anyone was wondering.
> 

I thought it was Adobe Type Manager!  ;-)


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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 22:28:07 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:28:07 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <1063631965.1502.0.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>

> SCO is having a tour Toronto Oct. 7 -
> https://vrs.verite.com/sco/index.cfm?action=register&event_id=120&lcode=enu

I'm so there... and I'll be sure to ask a few 'pointed questions'. I've 
already made my reservation.

The real questions are, will I be searched for pies and/or eggs... and 
will Darl McBride or any real SCO bigwigs be there? Anyone know what the 
penalties for assault are? ;)

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 22:35:11 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F663CF7.3080509-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	 <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got to
come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO people
wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh, and I have a
small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I somehow doubt
video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent events).

Madison

On Mon, 2003-09-15 at 18:28, Byron Sonne wrote:
> > SCO is having a tour Toronto Oct. 7 -
> > https://vrs.verite.com/sco/index.cfm?action=register&event_id=120&lcode=enu
> 
> I'm so there... and I'll be sure to ask a few 'pointed questions'. I've 
> already made my reservation.
> 
> The real questions are, will I be searched for pies and/or eggs... and 
> will Darl McBride or any real SCO bigwigs be there? Anyone know what the 
> penalties for assault are? ;)

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 00:14:45 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:14:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200309142216.28696.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309142216.28696.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152006330.4673-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> No dhcp is a protocol for assigning IP addresses on Ethernet networks (perhaps 
> others?), it is far from obsolete.  Never heard of it being used with dialup 
> but who knows.

The RAS(remote access server) server usually acts as a DHCP server,
handing out IP addresses to clients connecting over a dial up modem. That
is why, when you use dial-up, your IP address changes constantly.

On the RAS's side, all you would have to configure is the range of IP 
addresses that the clients are going to receive.

Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 00:24:40 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:24:40 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152006330.4673-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152006330.4673-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <3F665848.9060705@rogers.com>

Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> 
> 
>>No dhcp is a protocol for assigning IP addresses on Ethernet networks (perhaps 
>>others?), it is far from obsolete.  Never heard of it being used with dialup 
>>but who knows.
> 
> 
> The RAS(remote access server) server usually acts as a DHCP server,
> handing out IP addresses to clients connecting over a dial up modem. That
> is why, when you use dial-up, your IP address changes constantly.
> 
> On the RAS's side, all you would have to configure is the range of IP 
> addresses that the clients are going to receive.

You're a bit confused.  While IP address from RAS or other dial up 
access appear dynamic, they don't use dhcp.  Normally, a phone line is 
assigned it's own IP and whatever computer connects to that line, gets 
that IP.  If there are multiple lines, there will be mulitple IP 
addresses, and whichever address you get, depends on what line you 
connect to.  From the user point of view, the addresses are dynamic (not 
dhcp), but from the ISP point of view, they're static.  On the other 
hand, dhcp is used on ethernet, token ring or other multiple access 
networks, to assign IP addresses, on an as needed basis.  A dial up line 
has no need of a dhcp server and using one wouldn't help an ISP.



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From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 01:16:31 2003
From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:16:31 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200309151122.09541.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309151122.09541.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309152110510.970109-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>




On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Monday 15 September 2003 10:40, Keith Mastin wrote:
> > > A Toronto based dsl provider, dsl.ca, recently got an IPv6 prefix
> > > assigned to them, and it was actually globally routable for a brief
> > > period. Unfortunately they got taken over by another isp and any hope of
> > > them offering ipv6 connectivity has vanished.
> >
> > With the way that wiznet has been conducting their business, it will be a
> > wnder if they survive the next year.
>
> Or until the end of this year ...

Yeah, I contacted wiznet back in June. I'm still not up and running.
Took for ever to get the line. Then they didn't have a modem of their own
to sell but also wouldn't provide support on any modem we bought
elsewhere.  Seems they were quite popular a few months back. I guess
they went down hill quickly. Any suggestions on who to change to? It
sounds like people were saying good things about IStop. Any bad experiences with them?

>
> --
> Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
> Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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>

------------
Alex Maynard
Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
University of Toronto
150 St. George St., N304
Toronto ON M5S 3G7
Canada
e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org
tel: (416) 978-4358


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From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 01:49:45 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:49:45 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <1063665311.30028.25.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got to
> come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO people
> wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh, and I have a
> small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I somehow doubt
> video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent events).

Wouldn't real geeks have those cellular phones that can do text, video
and sound!

BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
it down to "causing a disturbance".

~ C


-- 
gpg pubkey fingerprint:
100E A98E E143 C326 547C  A207 A704 F673 8B4E A754
                     ****
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:09:29 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:09:29 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
Message-ID: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>

hi,

i've got an application that cycles through video, macromedia flash and 
images (jpg, png, gif etc) according to a playlist. Currently i'm using 
the mplayer and mplayer plugin on mozilla (vs. 1.4) running on Redhat 
9.0 to do this-- we've recently seen crashes due to mplayer when we 
cycle through a few video files (typically 5+) of 80MB+ a few times. Can 
you make some suggestions regarding any good alternatives on linux worth 
investigation, possibly another distro etc.

thanks in advance

regards,
Kerry


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:23:54 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:23:54 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <3F6670D9.4030708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F66743A.7070706@rogers.com>

> you make some suggestions regarding any good alternatives on linux worth 
> investigation, possibly another distro etc.

I've been using the crossover plugin from codeweavers for around a year 
now. Quite handy, pretty slick and I feel the price is reasonable.

They have a full demo which should help you evaluate whether it'll do 
for you or not.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:26:05 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:26:05 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F6674BD.5060103@rogers.com>

> BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
> it down to "causing a disturbance".

What if the eggs were hardboiled and frozen?

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:36:28 2003
From: sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (David)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:36:28 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost><3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com><1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <000b01c37bfb$55343b40$b8fcfea9@bookpc>

Personally I wear 6 ballpoint pens in my jacket pocket and tell them I took
Fortran courses from Hume at UofT"  in 1964.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Keelan" <rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 09:49 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]


> On 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
> Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got to
> > come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO people
> > wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh, and I have a
> > small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I somehow doubt
> > video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent events).
>
> Wouldn't real geeks have those cellular phones that can do text, video
> and sound!
>
> BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
> it down to "causing a disturbance".
>
> ~ C
>
>
> -- 
> gpg pubkey fingerprint:
> 100E A98E E143 C326 547C  A207 A704 F673 8B4E A754
>                      ****
> Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
> --just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:38:05 2003
From: sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (David)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:38:05 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <001101c37bfb$8ef478e0$b8fcfea9@bookpc>

Sorry I'm satisfied with Mandrake 9.1  See you at TLUG

David


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Kerry Panchoo" <Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>; <TTLUG at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:09 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: video plugin for mozilla on linux


> hi,
> 
> i've got an application that cycles through video, macromedia flash and 
> images (jpg, png, gif etc) according to a playlist. Currently i'm using 
> the mplayer and mplayer plugin on mozilla (vs. 1.4) running on Redhat 
> 9.0 to do this-- we've recently seen crashes due to mplayer when we 
> cycle through a few video files (typically 5+) of 80MB+ a few times. Can 
> you make some suggestions regarding any good alternatives on linux worth 
> investigation, possibly another distro etc.
> 
> thanks in advance
> 
> regards,
> Kerry
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:47:35 2003
From: sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (David)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:47:35 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost><3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com><1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <000b01c37bfb$55343b40$b8fcfea9@bookpc>
Message-ID: <001d01c37bfc$e30a8b80$b8fcfea9@bookpc>

I don't hate Bill Gates anymore, I pity him.


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David" <sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]


> Personally I wear 6 ballpoint pens in my jacket pocket and tell them I
took
> Fortran courses from Hume at UofT"  in 1964.
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Chris Keelan" <rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 09:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
>
>
> > On 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
> > Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> > > Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got to
> > > come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO people
> > > wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh, and I have a
> > > small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I somehow doubt
> > > video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent events).
> >
> > Wouldn't real geeks have those cellular phones that can do text, video
> > and sound!
> >
> > BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
> > it down to "causing a disturbance".
> >
> > ~ C
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > gpg pubkey fingerprint:
> > 100E A98E E143 C326 547C  A207 A704 F673 8B4E A754
> >                      ****
> > Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
> > --just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:40:21 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:40:21 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F6674BD.5060103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<3F6674BD.5060103@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030915224021.228435bc.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:26:05 -0400
Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> What if the eggs were hardboiled and frozen?

With a good lawyer, anything instills "reasonable doubt".

~ C

-- 
gpg pubkey fingerprint:
100E A98E E143 C326 547C  A207 A704 F673 8B4E A754
                     ****
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 02:50:11 2003
From: sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (David)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:50:11 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com> <001101c37bfb$8ef478e0$b8fcfea9@bookpc>
Message-ID: <002301c37bfd$3fda0160$b8fcfea9@bookpc>

Mandrakesoft does everything I know of (the 9 CD set.  I will have copies
for the next meeting.

David


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "David" <sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: video plugin for mozilla on linux


> Sorry I'm satisfied with Mandrake 9.1  See you at TLUG
>
> David
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Kerry Panchoo" <Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>; <TTLUG at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:09 PM
> Subject: [TLUG]: video plugin for mozilla on linux
>
>
> > hi,
> >
> > i've got an application that cycles through video, macromedia flash and
> > images (jpg, png, gif etc) according to a playlist. Currently i'm using
> > the mplayer and mplayer plugin on mozilla (vs. 1.4) running on Redhat
> > 9.0 to do this-- we've recently seen crashes due to mplayer when we
> > cycle through a few video files (typically 5+) of 80MB+ a few times. Can
> > you make some suggestions regarding any good alternatives on linux worth
> > investigation, possibly another distro etc.
> >
> > thanks in advance
> >
> > regards,
> > Kerry
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 03:01:47 2003
From: ilyapalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:01:47 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <3F6674BD.5060103@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <007601c37bfe$ddfb4f10$c29b8b3f@kuzya>

----- Original Message -----
From: "Byron Sonne" <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:26 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]


> > BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
> > it down to "causing a disturbance".
>
> What if the eggs were hardboiled and frozen?

The best eggs for these purposes can be found in the museum of paleontology,
dinosaurs ones. Can we borrow some for the SCO's "continental breakfast"?

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 03:01:44 2003
From: sealed-HLeSyJ3qPdM at public.gmane.org (David)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:01:44 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost><3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com><1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com><20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca><3F6674BD.5060103@rogers.com> <20030915224021.228435bc.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <003c01c37bfe$dcf10b00$b8fcfea9@bookpc>

I wrote some code to do that in VB years ago.  Junk the soft CR's and the
other junk.

David


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Chris Keelan" <rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 10:40 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]


> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 22:26:05 -0400
> Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > What if the eggs were hardboiled and frozen?
>
> With a good lawyer, anything instills "reasonable doubt".
>
> ~ C
>
> -- 
> gpg pubkey fingerprint:
> 100E A98E E143 C326 547C  A207 A704 F673 8B4E A754
>                      ****
> Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
> --just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 03:26:45 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:26:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309152110510.970109-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309152110510.970109-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309152311480.4665@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, Alex Maynard wrote:

> sounds like people were saying good things about IStop. Any bad
> experiences with them?

Our biggest problem in the Toronto POP has been Linux related, and our
second biggest problem has been a quirky Cisco catalyst 2924M.  Since this
is a linux list, I'll just elaborate on the Linux issue.

We use Linux/Zebra for BGP core routing.  Getting the right
hardware/software combo that can handle >144kpps (FE line-rate with min
frame size) has not been an easy job at all.  So when your linux router
hits 100% CPU with a modest 50kpps DOS attack bad things start to happen.
 And since we have a large number of customers with static IPs, we seem
to attract more DOS attacks than other ISPs our size.
I did a presentation for the Ottawa Linux users group about it.
http://ns.istop.com/~ralph/linuxrouter/
Since doing the presentation we've finished testing new Linux router boxes
with Intel GigE cards running 2.4.22 and Zebra 0.94.  The performance is
much better; >150kpps routing throughput.  One of the new boxes is
now sitting in the bottom of my rack in 151 Front St, ready to go live
sometime in the next week or so.

-Ralph
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 23:32:07 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:32:07 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <3F6670D9.4030708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 22:09:29 -0400
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/15/2003 10:09:29 PM, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> i've got an application that cycles through video, macromedia flash and  
> images (jpg, png, gif etc) according to a playlist. Currently i'm using the  
> mplayer and mplayer plugin on mozilla (vs. 1.4) running on Redhat 9.0 to do  
> this-- we've recently seen crashes due to mplayer when we cycle through a  
> few video files (typically 5+) of 80MB+ a few times. Can you make some  
> suggestions regarding any good alternatives on linux worth investigation,  
> possibly another distro etc.

Mandrake with the PLF addons (plf.zarb.org) supports more video formats than  
any other distro I know of, is very reliable, and very easy to install using  
urpmi.

BTW, I'm new here, and I'm a developer for Mandrake.  ;-)

Austin
--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 03:43:26 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 23:43:26 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030915233207.GC9009-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
	<20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:32:07 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Mandrake with the PLF addons (plf.zarb.org) supports more video
> formats than  any other distro I know of, is very reliable, and very
> easy to install using  urpmi.
> 
> BTW, I'm new here, and I'm a developer for Mandrake.  ;-)

it's really easy to do too. just go here:

http://plf.zarb.org/~nanardon/index.php

configure all your software sources, then

urpmi mplayer

it will install all the codecs and such you need.

also, IIRC, there are Mozilla mplayer plugins availabe the same way, as
well as flash, java, and realplayer.

Hey Austin, you ever hang out on the Mandrake lists?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hate dying.
		-- Dave Johnson
--
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 00:22:07 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:22:07 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Mon, Sep 15, 2003 at 23:43:26 -0400
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com> <20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>


On 09/15/2003 11:43:26 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> also, IIRC, there are Mozilla mplayer plugins availabe the same way, as
> well as flash, java, and realplayer.

Not exactly.  Mandrake Linux does not include any commercial software.  But  
while ethics are all good and nice, there are ways to get the other you  
mentioned using urpmi.  All java-related stuff is available at jpackage.org.   
Flash and realplayer are a different story.  Best to just install them  
manually, but there are RPMs available for Mandrake Club members (not free).
 
> Hey Austin, you ever hang out on the Mandrake lists?

Just the developers list (cooker).  More like I plague it...

I maintain a lot of the audio/video RPMs, the majority of the scientific  
application RPMs, and some less popular GNOME2 suff.

Austin

--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 04:38:52 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:38:52 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030916002207.GA4889-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
	<20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030916003852.74160bac.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:22:07 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Not exactly.  Mandrake Linux does not include any commercial software.
>  But  while ethics are all good and nice, there are ways to get the
>  other
> you  mentioned using urpmi.  All java-related stuff is available at
> jpackage.org.   Flash and realplayer are a different story.  Best to
> just install them  manually, but there are RPMs available for Mandrake
> Club members (not free).

actually, Texstar and other make RPM's for these things:

mozilla-flash-1.4-1tex

and

mozilla-realplayer-1.3-1tex

work like a charm, Tex is a real popular guy!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hate dying.
		-- Dave Johnson
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 04:44:12 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:44:12 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030916002207.GA4889-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
	<20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030916004412.442e9f65.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:22:07 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Just the developers list (cooker).  More like I plague it...

You must see a lot of Tom Brinkman, then, he is a character, no?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He who knows others is wise.
He who knows himself is enlightened.
		-- Lao Tsu
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 04:48:03 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 00:48:03 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030916002207.GA4889-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
	<20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030916004803.6af91288.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 20:22:07 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> All java-related stuff is available at jpackage.org.

and this:

mozilla-java-1.4-1tex.i586.rpm

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Each of us bears his own Hell.
		-- Publius Vergilius Maro (Virgil)
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 07:37:32 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:37:32 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030916004412.442e9f65.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 00:44:12 -0400
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com> <20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030916004412.442e9f65.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030916073732.GA2595@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/16/2003 12:44:12 AM, JoeHill wrote:
> You must see a lot of Tom Brinkman, then, he is a character, no?

Yes, he is our best kernel developer.  Hands down.
I love that guy.

Austin

--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
             MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
--
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 11:42:37 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 07:42:37 -0400
Subject: Interesting article - "The Mad Hatter meets the MCSE"
Message-ID: <20030916114237.435C1441C@cbbrowne.com>

http://www.aceshardware.com/read.jsp?id=60000248
X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)

"Taking a 100% Microsoft client-server systems environment and simply
adding Linux based desktops to the mix is a bit like dropping a
mongoose into a snake pit -- short term savings on licensing and
hardware will be eaten up by increased support costs and decreased
operational stability.

One alternative is to adopt Unix throughout the enterprise, earning
savings in the 40% range while improving reliability and performance
by combining centralized processing with simplifed networking, desktop
smart displays, and enhanced user control over corporate data
processing."
-- 
select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'acm.org';
http://cbbrowne.com/info/finances.html
Yes, for sparkling white chip prints, use low SUDSing DRAW....
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 13:25:42 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 09:25:42 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030916073732.GA2595-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
	<20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030916004412.442e9f65.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030916073732.GA2595@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030916092542.32daf5a9.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 03:37:32 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Yes, he is our best kernel developer.  Hands down.
> I love that guy.

Just try to avoid *political* discussions... ;-) otherwise, he's a total
sweetheart, and one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people I've
ever, er, "met". He knows hardware like I know...like I know...

well, I don't know nothin' like he does...

The best part is, he writes like he talks. Texan!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing in life is to be feared.  It is only to be understood.
--
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From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 12:44:28 2003
From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 08:44:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 2.4 networking setting
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309160841170.23980-100000@d141-143-198.home.cgocable.net>

A couple of times on this list there has been discussion regarding an
obscure 2.4 network setting in /proc. It affects TCP connections and not
having it set right means sometimes you can connect to services and
other times not. I seem to recall that the default may be set wrong and
should be changed.

Anyone remember this and maybe shed some light on the parameter?

Thanks,

Terry

-- 

  Terry Tanski, B.Sc.               Phone: (416) 863-2126
  Canada NewsWire Ltd.              Fax: (416) 863-4825
  20 Bay Street, Suite 1500         Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
  Toronto, ON  M5J 2N8              Web: http://www.newswire.ca

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 23:05:21 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:05:21 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030916092542.32daf5a9.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Tue, Sep 16, 2003 at 09:25:42 -0400
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com> <20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030916004412.442e9f65.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030916073732.GA2595@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030916092542.32daf5a9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030915230521.GA2106@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 09/16/2003 09:25:42 AM, JoeHill wrote:
> The best part is, he writes like he talks. Texan!

YIKES!  My mistake.  I thought you said Tom Backlund, not Tom Brinkman.   
No, Brinkman is not our best kernel developer, and I don't really know  
him.

Sorry for the mixup.
Austin
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 15:18:56 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:18:56 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030915230521.GA2106-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com>
	<20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030915234326.22145a1b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030916002207.GA4889@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030916004412.442e9f65.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030916073732.GA2595@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030916092542.32daf5a9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030915230521.GA2106@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030916111856.726d2582.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003 19:05:21 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Sorry for the mixup.

NP. I was gonna say, he's brilliant, but I wasn't aware he was a kernel
developer...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One learns to itch where one can scratch.
		-- Ernest Bramah
--
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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 15:44:21 2003
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:44:21 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>; from ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 13, 2003 at 06:15:25PM -0400
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20030916114421.R6785@leftmind.net>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> I have considered a lower monthly price but with a one-time setup charge
> for the static IPs, but $4/mth seems to be lower than any of my
> competitors.

Configuring DHCP so that an IP assignment is for all practical purposes
static can make it a lot easier to map aberrant packets to the aberrant
user.

Also, back in the era of "unlimited dialup", assigning a static IP address
was a wonderfully value-added way of stopping a luser dead in his tracks
when he tried to share his dialup password with his friends.  Most routing
protocols will only deliver packets for a given unicast address to *one*
endpoint.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
--
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 15:58:05 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:58:05 -0400
Subject: 2.4 networking setting
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309160841170.23980-100000-IP1yISQvLO/JVKpLu1xllab/onQ366noJq6Ak5r1//4@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309160841170.23980-100000@d141-143-198.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <200309161158.05611.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 16 September 2003 08:44, Terry Tanski wrote:

> A couple of times on this list there has been discussion regarding an
> obscure 2.4 network setting in /proc. It affects TCP connections and not
> having it set right means sometimes you can connect to services and
> other times not. I seem to recall that the default may be set wrong and
> should be changed.

ECN, probably at /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_ecn

Set it to off or some silly networking equipment will have problems talking to 
you (notably PIX firewalls).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 16:07:53 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 12:07:53 -0400
Subject: 2.4 networking setting
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309160841170.23980-100000-IP1yISQvLO/JVKpLu1xllab/onQ366noJq6Ak5r1//4@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309160841170.23980-100000@d141-143-198.home.cgocable.net>
Message-ID: <ltznh4emxy.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Terry Tanski <ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> writes:

> A couple of times on this list there has been discussion regarding an
> obscure 2.4 network setting in /proc. It affects TCP connections and not
> having it set right means sometimes you can connect to services and
> other times not. I seem to recall that the default may be set wrong and
> should be changed.
> 
> Anyone remember this and maybe shed some light on the parameter?

Could be ECN (explicit congestion notification), search for ECN in
Configure.help of the kernel source for more details.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 16:37:51 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:37:51 -0400
Subject: video plugin for mozilla on linux
In-Reply-To: <20030915233207.GC9009-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6670D9.4030708@rogers.com> <20030915233207.GC9009@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F673C5F.1020205@rogers.com>


i found the problem with mplayer, mplayer-plugin and mozilla- redhat 9.0 
was not able to properly detect my video card and configured vesa- which 
for some reason made mplayer crash after about 1/2hr-- i manually 
configured the correct Xserver and its been cycling my playlist for the 
last 2 hrs-- hopefully it'll run the entire day through.

Kerry


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 16:43:17 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:43:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
        <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
        <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
> Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got to
>> come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO people
>> wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh, and I have a
>> small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I somehow doubt
>> video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent events).
>
> Wouldn't real geeks have those cellular phones that can do text, video
> and sound!
>
> BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
> it down to "causing a disturbance".

All hollywood pipedreams set aside, are there any organized plans for
protest at the SCO thingy? Where are those tree huggers when we need them?
A public display of protest will make it more difficult for SCO to say
that they are supported or condoned by the toronto linux community.

I'de be willing to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and harrass the
public if I knew I wasn't alone in it. With enough people and good
planning we could get just a little media attention. I would hate to see
after-the-fact that SCO reports support and success in Toronto, and a bit
of adversary interest might take that away from them.

Does anyone on the list have any experience with this kind of thing?

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


--
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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 17:11:34 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:11:34 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>        <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>        <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>        <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com>

You could chain yourself to the six-foot high printout of Linux source code

Keith Mastin wrote:

>All hollywood pipedreams set aside, are there any organized plans for
>protest at the SCO thingy? Where are those tree huggers when we need them?
>A public display of protest will make it more difficult for SCO to say
>that they are supported or condoned by the toronto linux community.
>

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 17:12:33 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:12:33 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20030916131233.76a6aed6.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:43:17 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> All hollywood pipedreams set aside, are there any organized plans for
> protest at the SCO thingy? Where are those tree huggers when we need
> them? A public display of protest will make it more difficult for SCO
> to say that they are supported or condoned by the toronto linux
> community.
> 
> I'de be willing to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and harrass the
> public if I knew I wasn't alone in it. With enough people and good
> planning we could get just a little media attention. I would hate to
> see after-the-fact that SCO reports support and success in Toronto,
> and a bit of adversary interest might take that away from them.
> 
> Does anyone on the list have any experience with this kind of thing?

I've always wanted to be "involved". I said I would join OCAP. I didn't.
I said I would help with Jack Layton's campaign. I didn't. I said I
would...well, you get the point.

I will be there. Although this does not in any way compare to the causes
I mention above, it is a start, no?

Any suggestions for slogans? I have some lumber and some bristol board,
I'll certainly bring a big sign.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Depend on the rabbit's foot if you will, but remember, it didn't help
the rabbit.
		-- R.E. Shay
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 17:14:59 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:14:59 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F674446.1020503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F674446.1020503@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030916131459.24d3134b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 13:11:34 -0400
Tom Legrady <legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> You could chain yourself to the six-foot high printout of Linux source
> code

ROTFLMAO!

That gives me an idea...if anyone *could* print a largish copy of the
Linux source, we could put up a challenge to SCO to point out where the
infringing code is, you know, a symbolic kinda thang.

Anyone here work in a print shop?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The price of success in philosophy is triviality.
		-- C. Glymour.
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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 17:29:45 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:29:45 -0500
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca> 
  <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
  <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost> <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20030916172945.3672878D05@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

On Fri, 5 Sep 2003 23:46:45 +0300 (IDDT), "Peter L. Peres"
<plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> said:
> 
> FYI some all-in-one boards from Taiwan come with two cds. One contains
> the
> drivers for the board (incliding linux drivers) and the other contains an
> edition of OpenOffice for Windows (the Linux version does not fit on the
> same cd ?). I'm using it at work. Works great.

Which boards/companies are these?  Sounds like these boards/companies are
linux-friendly and should be remembered when we're asked to give hardware
purchase recommondations.

I'm interested in developing a short list of recommendable systems/parts
for various usage types.  For example:

* budget home or non-profit office general purpose
criteria:  cost (maybe including power consumption), reliability, ease of
setup
applicable product categories: integrated all-in-one type boards, mATX
form factor
recommended configuration:
   case: ...
   power supply: ...
   etc.

Maybe we could collectively come up with a list of systems/parts that we
know are reliable, functional, inexpensive, available locally and that we
know to be fully tested under Linux.  These could go onto a list of
TLUG-endorsed products (maybe on a wiki somewhere) and any useful info
such as new driver releases, tips, reviews, or defects could be posted or
announced on the list.

Personally, I find hardware shopping (i.e. endless googling for reviews
and linux compatibility info, determining locally availability, price
comparisons) big time waster and so I wish we could somehow pool our
experiences.
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
--
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 18:58:13 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 14:58:13 -0400
Subject: Howto confirm DNS is not the problem?
Message-ID: <002601c37c84$7bada250$0200a8c0@viper>

Howto confirm DNS is not the problem?
I can use ping to test TCPIP networks, but how can I confirm DNS?

Start using dig and nslookup?
Or tcpdump port 53? (can i view the packets in a meaningful way?)



Problem:
======
Just surfing around, I can goto websites and most of them work.
However a great deal of them do not show..Sometimes refreshing the browser
works and it pulls up the page.
Also email...same thing..Usually it works, often I cannot connect. I retry
and it works usually.
Once a FTP or HTTP download starts, its very reliable and fast.


Hardware:
=======
My router is Linux Redhat 9.0, iptables 1.27, with a very basic
IPMasquerading firewall 192.168.0.1 (like 2 lines!)
My workstation is the IPMASQd computer on 192.168.0.2


DNS setup
========

I am running BIND 9.22 on my linux router, but I have even disabled BIND and
used external DNS servers. Does not fix the problem.

1. I assume my Linux router should use my providers DNS1 and DNS2...(ok)
2. Should i enable BIND 9.22 on my router, and tell my workstations to use
my router, or my providers DNS1 and DNS2?


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From sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 19:11:19 2003
From: sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Serge Kuznetsov)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 15:11:19 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <00db01c37c86$4f454ef0$9c094d8e@wcom.ca>

Hi Ralph,

Do you make any discounts for TLUG members ?)

May be in very near future I'll exchange my free corporate ADSL connection for another ADSL privider.
It looks like ISTOP have better score than other ADSL providers.

> 
> -Ralph
> --
All the Best!
Serge.
================================
Serge Kuznetsov
Network Programmer - Analyst

MCI Canada
Direct: +1 416 216 5318
Fax: +1 416 368 6701
Web: http://www.mci.com/ca


From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 20:57:14 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:57:14 -0400
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: Message from "Andrew Malcolmson" <andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 29:45 CDT." <20030916172945.3672878D05-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> 
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca> <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost> <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>  <20030916172945.3672878D05@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20030916205715.6333F4488@cbbrowne.com>

> Which boards/companies are these?  Sounds like these boards/companies are
> linux-friendly and should be remembered when we're asked to give hardware
> purchase recommondations.
> 
> I'm interested in developing a short list of recommendable systems/parts
> for various usage types.

The unfortunate problem with this is that there is _heavy_ churn of
these products.  The motherboard that you really liked last month is
liable to get replaced by a newer model in 3 months thereby making the
information obsolete.

The approach that would be more likely to be worthwhile would be to go
"global" on building a compatibility database, so that MANY people could
be involved in figuring out which parts work well, and then have a
"regional availability" table that allows people in different regions
create 'views' indicating what hardware is available locally.
Regrettably, that latter part goes stale quickly.
--
If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
http://cbbrowne.com/info/oses.html
The difference between a  child and a hacker  is the amount he  flames
about his toys.  -- Ed Schwalenberg
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From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 21:17:28 2003
From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:17:28 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F674446.1020503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>        <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>        <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>        <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com>

Tom Legrady wrote:
> You could chain yourself to the six-foot high printout of Linux source code
> 
> Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
>> All hollywood pipedreams set aside, are there any organized plans for
>> protest at the SCO thingy? Where are those tree huggers when we need 
>> them?
>> A public display of protest will make it more difficult for SCO to say
>> that they are supported or condoned by the toronto linux community.

We could wear some old Caldera paraphenalia and give out copies of 
Caldera Open Linux(tm)?



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 21:36:30 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:36:30 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F677DE8.8060600-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F674446.1020503@rogers.com>
	<3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:17:28 -0400
Mike Kallies <mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> We could wear some old Caldera paraphenalia and give out copies of 
> Caldera Open Linux(tm)?

ROTFL!

I wish I still had that...I'd be burnin' like mad right now!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You will always find something in the last place you look.
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 21:39:15 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Howto confirm DNS is not the problem?
In-Reply-To: <002601c37c84$7bada250$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <002601c37c84$7bada250$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <26420.216.138.194.32.1063748355.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Howto confirm DNS is not the problem?

ping both the FQDN and the IP of each target host.

> I can use ping to test TCPIP networks, but how can I confirm DNS?

Your problem persists if you change dns servers, right? Try another dns
server, and if it doesn't improve things, take dns off the list of
possibilities for a while and look for packet loss.

<snip>



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 22:34:45 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 18:34:45 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309152311480.4665-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309152110510.970109-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309152311480.4665@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F679005.2020503@rogers.com>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:
One of the new boxes is
> now sitting in the bottom of my rack in 151 Front St, ready to go live
> sometime in the next week or so.

Where in 151 Front St. W. are you located?  At one time, I worked for 
Unitel in that building and did the planning for most of new installs 
there.  My office was in the extreme NE corner of the 5th fl.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 23:04:34 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:04:34 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F677DE8.8060600-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>        <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>        <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>        <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com> <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <3F679702.3010007@rogers.com>

Mike Kallies wrote:

> We could wear some old Caldera paraphenalia and give out copies of 
> Caldera Open Linux(tm)?

I've probably got a couple of copies here!


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From jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 23:23:11 2003
From: jthiele-bux5bdj6uGJBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Jon Thiele)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:23:11 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <000001c37ca9$7f57e5d0$6501a8c0@plex8>


"I'de [sic] be willing to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and harrass
[sic] the public if I knew I wasn't alone in it."

so, how many brave souls does it take to make a mob???  none, it appears...

but, keith, why get out of your darkened basement just to stand on a
sidewalk???  why not harass people closer to home???  maybe you can ask evan
leibovitch of the linux professional institute why sco is still a platinum
sponsor of the lpi as described here:  http://www.lpi.org/en/home.html

or, maybe you can ask matthew rice of starix fame if they are still "proud
to be a part of Caldera's growth" and are still "good friends" as shown
here: http://www.starnix.com/partners.html


gee, keith.  you clearly aren't trying hard enough...



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Keith Mastin
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 12:43 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]


> On 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
> Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>> Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got to
>> come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO people
>> wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh, and I have a
>> small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I somehow doubt
>> video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent events).
>
> Wouldn't real geeks have those cellular phones that can do text, video
> and sound!
>
> BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
> it down to "causing a disturbance".

All hollywood pipedreams set aside, are there any organized plans for
protest at the SCO thingy? Where are those tree huggers when we need them?
A public display of protest will make it more difficult for SCO to say
that they are supported or condoned by the toronto linux community.

I'de be willing to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and harrass the
public if I knew I wasn't alone in it. With enough people and good
planning we could get just a little media attention. I would hate to see
after-the-fact that SCO reports support and success in Toronto, and a bit
of adversary interest might take that away from them.

Does anyone on the list have any experience with this kind of thing?

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 02:22:29 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:22:29 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030915015304.GA4790-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <20030914234645.GA11989@m450> <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <20030917022229.GA3498@m450>

On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 09:53:04PM -0400, Chris MacDonald wrote
> On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 07:46:45PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Part of the problem is that there is a highly artificial
> > shortage of IPV4 addresses, aided and abbetted by companies with a
> > financial interest in the implementation of IPV6.  Thus static IP
> > addresses cost money to obtain.
> 
> Who exactly has a financial interest in ipv6? It's the other way in
> fact, implementing ipv6 would be quite expensive.

  Howsabout computer/networking hardware manufacturers who see the
switchover as the pot of gold ?

Block   Date     Registry - Purpose
-----   ------   ------------------
003/8   May 94   General Electric Company
  GE restricts 3.0.0.0/8 to *INTERNAL USE ONLY*.  They use *OTHER
ADDRESS SPACE* for their internet-facing servers.  WTF is this ?

009/8   Aug 92   IBM
  Why does IBM need 16 million publicly routable addresses ?

013/8   Sep 91   Xerox Corporation
  Have you ever seen any email from this address space ?

015/8   Jul 94   Hewlett-Packard Company
016/8   Nov 94   Digital Equipment Corporation
  DEC was bought by Compaq, which was bought by HP.  So HP now has
*THIRTY-TWO MILLION CONSECUTIVE, PUBLICLY ROUTABLE ADDRESSES*!!!  WTF do
they need them for ?

017/8   Jul 92   Apple Computer Inc.
  Why ???

  All of the above companies would just *LOVE* to see IPV6 rammed down
the throats of unwilling ISPs and customers.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 02:43:07 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 22:43:07 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <20030915022221.71FB74412-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030913012007.63378.qmail@web40803.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <20030914234645.GA11989@m450> <20030915015304.GA4790@anarchy.ca> <20030915022221.71FB74412@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <20030917024307.GB3498@m450>

On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 10:22:20PM -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote

> And there is a _considerable_ cost to jumping to IPv6, in that there is
> a whole lot of hardware out there that doesn't know about it.  
> 
> Routers, and legacy boxes running all sorts of OSes (possibly even
> including Linux!) that would be inconvenient and expensive to upgrade.

  *EXACTLY* !!!  Imagine that you're a top exec at a *HARDWARE COMPANY*
like IBM (hoarding 16 million IP addresses), Apple (another 16 million),
or HP (32 million!!!).  You have a choice between...

  1) Returning millions of IP addresses that you don't really need,
     thereby lengthening the lifespan of IPV4

  2) Hanging on to your unneeded IP addresses, and forcing an earlier
     adoption of IPV6, which will force companies to buy, buy, buy your
     hardware, and your stock-options to rise.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 03:05:29 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:05:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
 <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
 <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com> <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com>
 <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> > We could wear some old Caldera paraphenalia and give out copies of
> > Caldera Open Linux(tm)?

I have a Caldera Open Linux t-shirt somewhere.  I haven't worn it since
this fiasco started.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 03:10:44 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:10:44 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <000001c37ca9$7f57e5d0$6501a8c0-hSX/aAjrQnU@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37ca9$7f57e5d0$6501a8c0@plex8>
Message-ID: <3F67D0B4.7040607@rogers.com>

> maybe you can ask evan
> leibovitch of the linux professional institute why sco is still a platinum
> sponsor of the lpi as described here:  http://www.lpi.org/en/home.html

> or, maybe you can ask matthew rice of starix fame if they are still "proud
> to be a part of Caldera's growth" and are still "good friends" as shown
> here: http://www.starnix.com/partners.html

Although the harshness of the phrasing troubles me, I would be curious 
about answers to these questions.


-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 10:51:30 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:51:30 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com> <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com> <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com> <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F683CB2.1050902@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, JoeHill wrote:
> 
> 
>>>We could wear some old Caldera paraphenalia and give out copies of
>>>Caldera Open Linux(tm)?
> 
> 
> I have a Caldera Open Linux t-shirt somewhere.  I haven't worn it since
> this fiasco started.

I have a couple of Caldera penguins on my desk.  Perhaps I could throw 
them at the SCO people!  ;-)



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 11:15:48 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 07:15:48 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F683CB2.1050902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<3F674446.1020503@rogers.com>
	<3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com>
	<20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
	<3F683CB2.1050902@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030917071548.2be76442.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003 06:51:30 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I have a couple of Caldera penguins on my desk.  Perhaps I could throw
> 
> them at the SCO people!  ;-)

no way, those could be collector's items when SCO goes the way of the
dinosaur!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nasrudin walked into a teahouse and declaimed, "The moon is more useful
than the sun."
	"Why?", he was asked.
	"Because at night we need the light more."
--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 13:21:11 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:21:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <00db01c37c86$4f454ef0$9c094d8e-2Fpcqk/fTyU@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328@ns.istop.com> <00db01c37c86$4f454ef0$9c094d8e@wcom.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309170902510.11364@ns.istop.com>

No discounts, but I can do something for the group.

I have a bunch of Efficient Networks Speedstream 4060 USB ADSL modems
(surplus from the AOL/SBC ADSL campaign that flopped).  They don't
officially have Linux support, but I'm pretty sure they can be setup to
work with Linux.  Already my techs have been able to get the TurboComm
EA-100 (Globespan chipset) USB modem to work by using a USB sniffer under
Windows to capture the firmware downloaded to the modem.  The 4060's use
an Alcatel chipset.  The Alcatel Speedtouch USB works with linux
(http://www.linux-usb.org/SpeedTouch/) , so getting the 4060 to work
should not be an insurmountable task.

I'm willing to send a half dozen of these modems to someone in the group
willing to coordinate a project to get them working under Linux.  Project
participants would get to keep the modem.  If there are more than 6 TLUG
members interested, I'd want the modems to go to IStop.com customers
first.

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Serge Kuznetsov wrote:

> Hi Ralph,
>
> Do you make any discounts for TLUG members ?)
>
> May be in very near future I'll exchange my free corporate ADSL connection for another ADSL privider.
> It looks like ISTOP have better score than other ADSL providers.
>
> >
> > -Ralph
> > --
> All the Best!
> Serge.
> ================================
> Serge Kuznetsov
> Network Programmer - Analyst
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From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 16:22:17 2003
From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 12:22:17 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F683CB2.1050902-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com> <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com> <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com> <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F683CB2.1050902@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F688A39.5060609@idirect.com>

James Knott wrote:
...
>> I have a Caldera Open Linux t-shirt somewhere.  I haven't worn it since
>> this fiasco started.
> 
> I have a couple of Caldera penguins on my desk.  Perhaps I could throw 
> them at the SCO people!  ;-)

I was just looking at the Internet Way back machine and wow, 
www.caldera.com is an interesting read.

In December, they even proudly displayed a link to the following article.

http://www.itweek.co.uk/Features/1135984

IT Week: Taking the SCO name has encouraged some observers to suppose 
you are going back to Unix at the expense of Linux. Is that a fair 
interpretation?

Darl McBride: It's not fair. We are more committed to Linux than ever 
before. I understand the perception that we're going back to the 1980s, 
but when we looked under the stones for hidden assets, we found that the 
Caldera name had very limited reach and only into the US. But we sell to 
86 countries with multiple brands and SCO reaches into all of them. We 
have to ask ourselves, are we trying to cater for the guys at Slashdot 
[a popular Web site among Linux enthusiasts] or the larger business 
audience?


Just imagine rephrasing the question in the meeting and comparing 
today's answer to the answer from last year.

If anyone does anything though, they'd have to carefully think through 
the responses which SCO may give.  I think SCO has some weight to their 
arguments... just enough that it makes it very difficult to defend the 
Linux position in the form of convenient media sound-bites.

-Mike

--
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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 17:01:04 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 13:01:04 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F67D0B4.7040607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37ca9$7f57e5d0$6501a8c0@plex8>
	<3F67D0B4.7040607@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <ltvfrr9wof.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> writes:

> > maybe you can ask evan
> > leibovitch of the linux professional institute why sco is still a platinum
> > sponsor of the lpi as described here:  http://www.lpi.org/en/home.html

Evan can answer this better than I.

> > or, maybe you can ask matthew rice of starix fame if they are still "proud
> > to be a part of Caldera's growth" and are still "good friends" as shown
> > here: http://www.starnix.com/partners.html
> 
> Although the harshness of the phrasing troubles me, I would be curious about
> answers to these questions.

Anyone who knows us, knows we're great technically but poor marketers.  Our
web site has never expressed our "mission" very well and hasn't been updated
in over two years.  Our partnership with Caldera dates back to our founding
days and we're justly proud of those firsts.  Unfortunately (or perhaps
fortunately now), it never amounted to much and we're as upset by their
recent behaviour as anyone in the Linux community.  In fact, as founding
members of CLUE, both Matthew and Evan were instrumental in founding CLIC
(http://www.linux.ca/clic).  So go ahead, be angry with SCO, we are.  But
don't hold us accountable for the actions of a one time business partner
which is now a very different company.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
--
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 17:03:16 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:03:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F688A39.5060609-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
 <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
 <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com> <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com>
 <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <3F683CB2.1050902@rogers.com> <3F688A39.5060609@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309171245030.15368@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, Mike Kallies wrote:

> If anyone does anything though, they'd have to carefully think through
> the responses which SCO may give.  I think SCO has some weight to their
> arguments... just enough that it makes it very difficult to defend the

To be honest I'm yet to see any weight to their arguments.  They've
already been caught out once with the code the showed at the roadshow.
It is clear they were displaying the code as an example of code they
claimed was appropriated into Linux but when it was shown after only a few
hours by the OSS movement that the code was available under the BSD
licence, they engaged in some revisionist history and claimed they had
never shown the code as an example of code they said was in Linux but just
as an example of the code review they were doing (paraphriasing).  How
weak is that.  It's the type of argument cooked up by someone who has been
caught out lying and has no where to turn.

> Linux position in the form of convenient media sound-bites.

They may well have well packages sound bites themselves but I believe they
will contain only misrepresentations and half truths (as well as the odd
outright lie).

In the end it is only the court decisions which matter at this point.  I
think even the "court of public opinion" isn't too important right now.
Most people have no idea this is alll going on, even in IT.  Of those who
do know, a certain percentage don't care.

And now my beliefs...

I believe that no SCO code is contained in the kernel (except that which
they have previously released under the BSD or GPL licences).  I also
believe that the "powers that be" in SCO have known this for sometime.  I
believe that SCO will lose to IBM on both their suite against Big Blue and
on IBM's patent counter-suite.  If IBM wins the patent suite there
probably won't be much of SCO left when this is all done.  Following a SCO
loss on the first suite a class-action of Linux consultants will probably
start (to recover lost earnings).  Who knows how SCO will be divided up -
so many people to pay, so little money.

I think that Darl McBride and other senior people in SCO will be
investigated for fraud following these events.

I also think children are the future.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 18:19:00 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 13:19:00 -0500
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: ARRAY(0x9e58534)
References: ARRAY(0x9e26ad4)
Message-ID: <20030917181900.77ED679A91@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 16:57:14 -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org said:
> > I'm interested in developing a short list of recommendable systems/parts
> > for various usage types.
> 
> The unfortunate problem with this is that there is _heavy_ churn of
> these products.  The motherboard that you really liked last month is
> liable to get replaced by a newer model in 3 months thereby making the
> information obsolete.

The turnover doesn't seem that fast to me - yes there are new products
coming out all the time, but, personally I don't often want a brand new
product because it'll be costlier, because not enough time has passed for
the hardware to establish a record of reliablility and compatibility
under Linux, and because I don't running an OS that compells me to
upgrade my hardware.  So, usually I'm most interested in 6-18 month old
hardware.  Maybe I'm unusual like that.

> The approach that would be more likely to be worthwhile would be to go
> "global" on building a compatibility database, so that MANY people could
> be involved in figuring out which parts work well, and then have a
> "regional availability" table that allows people in different regions
> create 'views' indicating what hardware is available locally.
> Regrettably, that latter part goes stale quickly.

Good idea - I'm sure that could be done via filtering on an RSS feed. 
Sounds like a Python project.

Re staleness: this is where wiki's work well.  They're readily edited and
anyone can contribute so they don't rely on just one person to find time
to keep them updated.
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 19:39:03 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 15:39:03 -0400
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most
	recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: <20030917181900.77ED679A91-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: ARRAY(0x9e26ad4) 
	<20030917181900.77ED679A91@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1063827543.22298.10.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 14:19, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> The turnover doesn't seem that fast to me - yes there are new products
> coming out all the time, but, personally I don't often want a brand new
> product because it'll be costlier, because not enough time has passed for
> the hardware to establish a record of reliablility and compatibility
> under Linux, and because I don't running an OS that compells me to
> upgrade my hardware.  So, usually I'm most interested in 6-18 month old
> hardware.  Maybe I'm unusual like that.

I've often wondered about that.  Is this consumerist tendency to blame
any failure on old equipment a fad, or is this a fundamental shift in
thinking?  I personally like to see things working for a long period of
time, and working really well, but I've seen many counter-examples. 
I've just been shown an HP laptop that's broken for the third time, and
it's less than a year old.  What happens when things are made so
cheaply, that they don't even work on delivery?

Anyhow, enough questioning Ford... back to my regularly scheduled
programming.

Kareem


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      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Forget injuries, never forget kindnesses.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/

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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 19:55:37 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 15:55:37 -0400
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: Message from "Andrew Malcolmson" <andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 19:00 CDT." <20030917181900.77ED679A91-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org> 
References: ARRAY(0x9e26ad4)  <20030917181900.77ED679A91@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <20030917195538.9905B44B8@cbbrowne.com>

> The turnover doesn't seem that fast to me - yes there are new products
> coming out all the time, but, personally I don't often want a brand new
> product because it'll be costlier, because not enough time has passed for
> the hardware to establish a record of reliablility and compatibility
> under Linux, and because I don't running an OS that compells me to
> upgrade my hardware.  So, usually I'm most interested in 6-18 month old
> hardware.  Maybe I'm unusual like that.

The thing is, the local stores sell whatever they can get from their
wholesalers this month.

That's not necessarily the same stuff they got last month.  It almost
certainly won't be the same stuff that they got 18 months ago.

The CPUs that are "high end" now will be "low end" in 18 months; the
motherboards that everyone sells now won't be available on College St in
18 months.

That naturally leads to there being a whole lot of "churn" in the
hardware that is available over the counter.
--
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http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sgml.html
Necessity  is the  mother  of  invention. Insanity  is  the mother  of
straitjackets.
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 21:02:50 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:02:50 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Xerox 3110 anyone ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309172359320.592@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Hi,

is anyone using this printer and would like to say 10 words about it ? It
is on special in many places and I'd like to buy one. It's an inexpensive
(US$100-150 on special) bw laser with 600dpi and Linux support (Red Hat
only ? - GDI drivers). There are no reviews whatsoever on the web. Why ?
The price/page is fairly low (6 cents or so) the way this goes.

tia,

Peter
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From sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 21:41:20 2003
From: sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Serge Kuznetsov)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:41:20 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328@ns.istop.com> <00db01c37c86$4f454ef0$9c094d8e@wcom.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309170902510.11364@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <013d01c37d64$6eb8c3f0$9c094d8e@wcom.ca>

> an Alcatel chipset.  The Alcatel Speedtouch USB works with linux
> (http://www.linux-usb.org/SpeedTouch/) , so getting the 4060 to work
> should not be an insurmountable task.
> 

AFAIK, internals of that SpeedTouch is just a standard linux, which is a little modified,
and there is some specific CLI based on TCL.
I saw on web how to upgrade it to the Pro verstion. I not remember the link.

I think it can be the same for that firmware you are talking about.

All the Best!
Serge.

From mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 22:24:29 2003
From: mgjk-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Mike Kallies)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:24:29 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309171245030.15368-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com> <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com> <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com> <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F683CB2.1050902@rogers.com> <3F688A39.5060609@idirect.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309171245030.15368@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F68DF1D.3040404@idirect.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> I believe that no SCO code is contained in the kernel (except that which
> they have previously released under the BSD or GPL licences).  I also

I agree with what you're saying, only the court decision matters, and 
not much they've said really has any bite, but the GPL part bugs me a 
bit.  I've heard the GPL counterargument to SCO's ability to license 
Linux too many times.

If you read section 7 of the GPL like a scum-sucking lawyer (not to 
imply that all lawyers are scum sucking)  (I've added some emphasis to 
both of these)

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

"7. ...skip... If you cannot *distribute* so as to satisfy 
simultaneously your obligations under this License and any other 
pertinent obligations, then as a consequence you may not distribute the 
Program at all. For example, if a patent license would not permit 
royalty-free *redistribution* of the Program by all those who receive 
copies directly or indirectly through you, then the only way you could 
satisfy both it and this License would be to refrain entirely from 
distribution of the Program."

Now if you read some of SCO's tripe:

http://www.sco.com/scosource/description.html

"This new SCO license is a binary, right to *use* SCO Intellectual 
Property in a distribution of Linux. It is applies to commercial *uses* 
of a Linux operating system that contains a 2.4 or later version of the 
kernel, and cures the IP infringement issue for binary *use* only. 
Customers who purchase this license are held harmless by SCO for past 
infringements, as well as the on-going *use* of the infringing code."


And a little bit more tripe:

"The license does not grant any rights to use SCO IP in source format, 
nor does it grant any distribution rights. It is therefore inadequate to 
cure infringements for distributors, or any entity that uses, modifies 
or distributes Linux source code."

(there's a little bit of FUD in there since source usage and 
distribution aren't contested, they may as well add "The license does 
not prevent us from having intimate relations with your mother" -- it's 
just as true.)

Notice that the GPL specifically avoids usage rights.  I would expect 
that if it didn't, any GPL'd code suffering from DeCSS, Frauenhofer, 
Unisys or any other patent encumbrument would crumble forcing you to 
"refrain entirely from distribution..."

Notice that the SCO babble locks on to usage rights.  It sucks at them 
like a parasite.

Of course that depends on SCO pulling some patent-like IP out of their 
patent orifice, but I find it interesting that SCO's language is so 
usage-centered.

I suppose I'm only saying that the GPL argument only goes as far as 
distribution, and that SCO doesn't seem to be attacking that.

I'm not a lawyer of course.


> I think that Darl McBride and other senior people in SCO will be
> investigated for fraud following these events.

I agree here too, investigated... yes.  Prosecuted?  They're pretty slimy.

 From where I sit, they really are knowingly and wantonly commiting 
fraud for the sole purpose of personal profit, and at the expense of 
their former allies.

-Mike

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From claudia-H8ClgJW2OFZg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 22:36:36 2003
From: claudia-H8ClgJW2OFZg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Claudia Schmeing)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 18:36:36 -0400
Subject: Last Tuesday's slides
Message-ID: <20030917223636.GJ1219@raven.crowgirl.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Hi all,


As promissed, the talk Sam Sgro and I presented last TLUG may be found
on the Web. Thanks again to all for your comments.

Text:   http://raven.crowgirl.com/talks/ols_2003_talk.html
Slides: http://raven.crowgirl.com/talks/tlug_2003_slides/tlug_2003_slides.html


Enjoy

Claudia Schmeing

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 23:29:54 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 19:29:54 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F688A39.5060609-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com> <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <3F674446.1020503@rogers.com> <3F677DE8.8060600@idirect.com> <20030916173630.6736ce24.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309162304310.1079@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F683CB2.1050902@rogers.com> <3F688A39.5060609@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <3F68EE72.1040801@rogers.com>

Mike Kallies wrote:
> James Knott wrote:
> ...
> 
>>> I have a Caldera Open Linux t-shirt somewhere.  I haven't worn it since
>>> this fiasco started.
>>
>>
>> I have a couple of Caldera penguins on my desk.  Perhaps I could throw 
>> them at the SCO people!  ;-)
> 
> 
> I was just looking at the Internet Way back machine and wow, 
> www.caldera.com is an interesting read.
> 
> In December, they even proudly displayed a link to the following article.
> 
> http://www.itweek.co.uk/Features/1135984
> 
> IT Week: Taking the SCO name has encouraged some observers to suppose 
> you are going back to Unix at the expense of Linux. Is that a fair 
> interpretation?
> 
> Darl McBride: It's not fair. We are more committed to Linux than ever 
> before. I understand the perception that we're going back to the 1980s, 
> but when we looked under the stones for hidden assets, we found that the 
> Caldera name had very limited reach and only into the US. But we sell to 
> 86 countries with multiple brands and SCO reaches into all of them. We 
> have to ask ourselves, are we trying to cater for the guys at Slashdot 
> [a popular Web site among Linux enthusiasts] or the larger business 
> audience?

I wonder how much Bill Gates paid him, to change his mind?


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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 00:06:11 2003
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 20:06:11 -0400
Subject: Xerox 3110
Message-ID: <3F68F6F3.5080102@sympatico.ca>

This is a rebranded Samsung ML-1210 (also sold as the Lexmark 210). In 
any iteration its a really solid machine and known to work with Redhat 
7.3 + and Mandrake 8.2+. The problem is that the replacement toner 
cartridges for the Xerox and Lexmark models are $149.99 CDN but when 
purchased for the Samsung are $89.99 CDN. Further the cartridges for the 
latter two are not interchangeable with the former and are only rated 
for 2500 pages as opposed to 4000 page impressions for the Samsung. The 
current Samsung model in this series is the ML 1430 which is currently 
selling for $269.99 in the greater Toronto area.

John McGregor

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 02:48:52 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 22:48:52 -0400
Subject: Last Tuesday's slides
In-Reply-To: <20030917223636.GJ1219-LblNak0BHsA8SvRdAc4Mq9BPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030917223636.GJ1219@raven.crowgirl.com>
Message-ID: <1063853332.22298.37.camel@yoda>

Hello Claudia,

For some reason, raven.crowgirl.com isn't responding.  I can trace the
route down to peer1-gw.istop.com, but the trail seems to go cold there. 
Is everything alright on your end?

While I happen to have your attention, thank you for the presentation,
and all of the work on Freeswan.  I've had a personal interest in
privacy for about 8 years now (my old pgp key for kshehata-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org is
still on the pgp.net keyserver!), and something this easy yet powerful
is a great step in the right direction.

Thanks again!

Kareem

On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 18:36, Claudia Schmeing wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> As promissed, the talk Sam Sgro and I presented last TLUG may be found
> on the Web. Thanks again to all for your comments.
> 
> Text:   http://raven.crowgirl.com/talks/ols_2003_talk.html
> Slides: http://raven.crowgirl.com/talks/tlug_2003_slides/tlug_2003_slides.html
> 
> 
> Enjoy
> 
> Claudia Schmeing

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Forget injuries, never forget kindnesses.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/
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From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 04:47:31 2003
From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 00:47:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309180031040.27523-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> > OK.  Let's see if I get this right: ISP is charging you $48/year to change
> > ONE line of .conf ONCE.  That boggles the mind.  That is the promised land
> > of infinite markup.  It is cheaper for the ISP to use static IP.
> 
> Politely put, you're mistaken.
> There is a quantifiable recurring cost of >US$2000/yr for a /20 (see
> ARIN).

Does you lease your hardware?

> For our static IP customers my sysadmin has to
> allocate the next available IP based on the LNS the customer will
> terminate.  Then the customer RADIUS record needs to be setup with that
> IP.

I was looking at it from my point of view: the first-time customer. If
you take my point of view, it seems not much happens after you sign on... 
on the order of 15 minutes' labour.

> When we got our portable /20 from ARIN there was a huge amount of work
> involved in contacting all the static IP customers and informing them the
> IP would change and when it would change.  For our dynamic IP customers it
> was just a one-line change in our LNS.

You seem to be looking at it from another point of view: migration.
I will accept your point of view.

cheers,
max.


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From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 05:38:59 2003
From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 01:38:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <20030917022229.GA3498-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030917022229.GA3498@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309180052590.27523-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

> On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 09:53:04PM -0400, Chris MacDonald wrote
> > On Sun, Sep 14, 2003 at 07:46:45PM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > > Part of the problem is that there is a highly artificial
> > > shortage of IPV4 addresses, aided and abbetted by companies with a
> > > financial interest in the implementation of IPV6.  Thus static IP
> > > addresses cost money to obtain.
> > 
> > Who exactly has a financial interest in ipv6? It's the other way in
> > fact, implementing ipv6 would be quite expensive.
> 
>   Howsabout computer/networking hardware manufacturers who see the
> switchover as the pot of gold ?

Do kitchen appliances really *need* IP addresses?

If I figure correctly, there are 256^4 IPv4 addresses.  
There are 4.3 billion publically routable addresses.  
(China is a subnet:  Add one billion.  Africa? add another billion.
India? add one more.  Axis of EvilTM? add 100 million.)

Below are listed 6/256 addresses, or 2.34%.
Now, if we got another 18 on this list, then we'd be cooking.

Where did you get it?

Is this the next Y2K scam???


> Block   Date     Registry - Purpose
> -----   ------   ------------------
> 003/8   May 94   General Electric Company
>   GE restricts 3.0.0.0/8 to *INTERNAL USE ONLY*.  They use *OTHER
> ADDRESS SPACE* for their internet-facing servers.  WTF is this ?
> 
> 009/8   Aug 92   IBM
>   Why does IBM need 16 million publicly routable addresses ?
> 
> 013/8   Sep 91   Xerox Corporation
>   Have you ever seen any email from this address space ?
> 
> 015/8   Jul 94   Hewlett-Packard Company
> 016/8   Nov 94   Digital Equipment Corporation
>   DEC was bought by Compaq, which was bought by HP.  So HP now has
> *THIRTY-TWO MILLION CONSECUTIVE, PUBLICLY ROUTABLE ADDRESSES*!!!  WTF do
> they need them for ?
> 
> 017/8   Jul 92   Apple Computer Inc.
>   Why ???
> 
>   All of the above companies would just *LOVE* to see IPV6 rammed down
> the throats of unwilling ISPs and customers.
> 
> 

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 13:04:17 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 09:04:17 -0400
Subject: Last Tuesday's slides
In-Reply-To: <1063853332.22298.37.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030917223636.GJ1219@raven.crowgirl.com> 
	<1063853332.22298.37.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <1063890257.22298.64.camel@yoda>

Nevermind... I can connect now.  Though I still can't trace the route.

Kareem

On Wed, 2003-09-17 at 22:48, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> Hello Claudia,
> 
> For some reason, raven.crowgirl.com isn't responding.  I can trace the
> route down to peer1-gw.istop.com, but the trail seems to go cold there. 
> Is everything alright on your end?
> 
> While I happen to have your attention, thank you for the presentation,
> and all of the work on Freeswan.  I've had a personal interest in
> privacy for about 8 years now (my old pgp key for kshehata-rYHPKw+MWrk at public.gmane.org is
> still on the pgp.net keyserver!), and something this easy yet powerful
> is a great step in the right direction.
> 
> Thanks again!
> 
> Kareem
-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Reminds me of my safari in Africa. Somebody forgot the corkscrew
  and for several days we had to live on nothing but food and
  water.
    -- W. C. Fields
 ********************************************************************/

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From MichaelGalea-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 16:38:53 2003
From: MichaelGalea-4VtgCsEi+FIybS5Ee8rs3A at public.gmane.org (Michael Galea)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 12:38:53 -0400
Subject: Howto confirm DNS is not the problem?
Message-ID: <BF403E4C33192F4CAAAA819DE535232D0F8218@rcserver1.ruggedcom.local>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: teddymills [mailto:teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2003 2:58 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: Howto confirm DNS is not the problem?
> 
> 
> Howto confirm DNS is not the problem?
> I can use ping to test TCPIP networks, but how can I confirm DNS?
> 
> Start using dig and nslookup?
> Or tcpdump port 53? (can i view the packets in a meaningful way?)
> 
> 
> 
> Problem:
> ======
> Just surfing around, I can goto websites and most of them work.
> However a great deal of them do not show..Sometimes 
> refreshing the browser
> works and it pulls up the page.
> Also email...same thing..Usually it works, often I cannot 
> connect. I retry
> and it works usually.
> Once a FTP or HTTP download starts, its very reliable and fast.

Are you on cable or DSL? I am on DSL with eol.ca and had some 
mildy erratic behaviour until I dropped the MTU to 900 bytes.  
I also noticed that my dsl line restarted frequently, (sometimes 
30-40 times a day).

I asked eol.ca about the MTU and the restarting.  They said they
would ask bell to check the line and, lo and behold, a few days
later the line became nice and stable.
They had no idea about the cause of the MTU problem though..

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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 17:52:11 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 13:52:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [OT] tcpdump
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309181346310.25323@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

Afternoon
I've not used this group in quite a while but have yet to receive any
replies to this question on some of the forums I use.  Over the past week
or longer I've been noticing high firewall traffic from ip's that belong
to verio.net.  They to be mostly intrested in my windows machine at this
moment.  In all the person has been using about 7 different ip's:
165.254.12.101/102.202, etc.  Here is what I've noticed using tcpdump on
port 80.

12:56:22.053052
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242 >
165.254.12.101.http: S 152256065:152256065(0) win 8192 <mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK> (DF)
 12:56:22.089174 165.254.12.101.http >
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242: S
4259504041:4259504041(0) ack 152256066 win 65535 <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackOK>
(DF)
 12:56:22.089562
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242 >
165.254.12.101.http: . ack 1 win 8760 (DF)
 12:56:22.090183
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242 >
165.254.12.101.http: P 1:280(279) ack 1 win 8760 (DF)

 12:56:22.780155
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245 >
165.254.12.101.http: S 152256793:152256793(0) win 8192 <mss
1460,nop,nop,sackOK> (DF)
 12:56:22.789197 poppit03.pogo.com.http >
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3244: P
1116:1303(187) ack 1166 win 24820 (DF)
 12:56:22.820501 165.254.12.101.http >
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245: S
4268719919:4268719919(0) ack 152256794 win 65535 <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackOK>
(DF)
 12:56:22.820904
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245 >
165.254.12.101.http: . ack 1 win 8760 (DF)
 12:56:22.821503
CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245 >
165.254.12.101.http: P 1:280(279) ack 1 win 8760 (DF)

I've googled keywords <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackok> and have noticed that some
people have respinded that it's a possible worm.  From viewing my logs I
see nothing to be overly concerned about just more so curious as to what
this person or persons are up to.

TIA

gbell


 13:46:31 up 4 days, 22:44,  1 user,  load average: 0.03, 0.02, 0.00
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 22:19:54 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:19:54 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030910224818.3921B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030910224818.3921B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F663B0A.6010707@rogers.com>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Sun, 7 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>...Tube computers were also extremely unreliable (I used to 
>>maintain & repair one in the Toronto Stock Exchange.) and not the kind 
>>of thing you'd want to trust someone's life to.
> 
> 
> How about 250 million lives? :-)  Tube computers could be made extremely
> reliable, as witness the tube computers that controlled North America's
> air defences for many years. 
> 
> As ENIAC showed, running the tubes at much less than their rated
> electrical limits, and leaving the system on 24 hours a day so that the
> tube filaments were never stressed by cooling down and heating up again,
> made a huge difference.  The reliability still wasn't wonderful, with mean
> times between failure measured in hours rather than days... but with
> multiply-redundant systems and automatic switchover to a hot spare, a
> failure of one computer didn't mean an interruption in service. 

I'm well aware of those issues.  At the stock exchange, one of my duties
was to slowly crank up the filament voltage every morning and then wait
a few minutes, before bringing up the +- 130V DC motor generator sets to
get it going.  One comment I read about that ancient air traffic control
system, was that the only source of tubes for it, was the communist
countries (this was before the colapse of communism).  Are vacuum tubes
(other than specialized ones) even made at all in North America these
days?  About the only vacuum tubes in common use, would be the CRT in
most TVs & monitors and the magnetrons in microwave ovens.

No matter what you do, vacuum tubes != reliability.  Also, according to
a book I read about ENIAC a while ago, they'd run each job more than
once, to make sure they got the correct results.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 23:12:22 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:12:22 -0400
Subject: OpenPGP e-mail signing/encryption question
In-Reply-To: <3F564128.8000508-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F564128.8000508@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <3F6798D6.50100@rogers.com>

Anton Markov wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> 
> A couple of nights ago I decided to look into how to sign/encrypt 
> e-mails.  I figured out the Enigmail stuff, and got it installed and 
> working fine with Mozilla Thunderbird (a great e-mail reader by the 
> way).  I just have two questions:
> 
> Should I use the same key for encrypting and signing messages, or am I 
> suppose to generate different ones for each purpose?  From what I 
> understand (this is my first time looking into this issue) I give out my 
> public key in order to receive encrypted messages.  However, I have to 
> give out my private key in order to sign messages or something. This 
> doesn't make sense to me (why give out both keys), so either I am wrong, 
> or I don't know something.  Any clarification would be appreciated.

You use your private key to sign and the other person's public key to
encrypt.  At the other end, they'll use your public key to verify the
signature and their private key to decrypt.

> 
> Also, which key server should I use to share my key? Should I upload it 
> to several, or are they all synchronized like DNS servers?  Lastly, is 
> it possible to change the key once it is sent (or at least the comment)?
> 
> 
> I know this is a little off the Linux topic, but any help would be 
> appreciated.
> 
> P.S. PGP is so much easier to set up in Linux vs. Windows!

You might also want to consider the X.509 digital certificates, which
are supported by many e-mail programs.  You can get one for free from
www.thawte.com






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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 22:36:17 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:36:17 -0400
Subject: KWiFiManager
Message-ID: <3F64ED61.8010105@rogers.com>

There's a graphical WiFi configuration app, called KWiFiManager.  Has 
anyone tried it?  If so, how is it?

tnx jk


<http://kwifimanager.sourceforge.net/>

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 23:13:15 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:13:15 -0400
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <10255.216.138.194.32.1062953175.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>        <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>        <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>        <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>        <3F576486.1010607@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>        <29566.216.138.194.32.1062905865.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>        <3F5B204D.9070602@rogers.com> <10255.216.138.194.32.1062953175.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F67990B.3040806@rogers.com>

Keith Mastin wrote:

> 
> I picked up the bit of trivia on the radio one night (I know, I know).
> Seems that the cost of replacing the entire system (which they would have
> to apparently) is less than replacing the parts. IIRC, their supplier only
> has one customer... them.
> 

Cosidering some of the things I've heard on the radio, they're really
not much of an authoritative source.  There have been a few articles
over the years about aging aviation systems, but they weren't that old.,
dating back to the '60s or '70s  Also, consider what a vacuum tube
computer is capable of doing, compared with any personal computer build
in the past 20 years.  There's no way they'd be doing much.




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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 01:00:04 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 21:00:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <3F665848.9060705-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F665848.9060705@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152052310.4673-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:

> You're a bit confused.  While IP address from RAS or other dial up 
> access appear dynamic, they don't use dhcp.  Normally, a phone line is 
> assigned it's own IP and whatever computer connects to that line, gets 
> that IP.  If there are multiple lines, there will be mulitple IP 
> addresses, and whichever address you get, depends on what line you 
> connect to.  From the user point of view, the addresses are dynamic (not 
> dhcp), but from the ISP point of view, they're static.  On the other 
> hand, dhcp is used on ethernet, token ring or other multiple access 
> networks, to assign IP addresses, on an as needed basis.  A dial up line 
> has no need of a dhcp server and using one wouldn't help an ISP.

How would a client get a static IP, if when he connects, he gets a
different line? This is, assuming the client paid for the static IP, and 
the ISP set him up.

Whouldn't there be an entry at the DHCP server, specifying a reservation 
for that client?

If you say the IPs are statically set on the phone lines, then how would
the ISP hand out dynamic information to the RAS clients, if say one of
their DNS servers goes down? Options such as default gateway, primary and
secondary DNS are scope options set at the DHCP server.

An article, that relates to this:
http://www.winnetmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5413

Does anybody else have some input on this?

--
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http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 16 17:24:04 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 16 Sep 2003 13:24:04 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	 <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	 <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	 <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Can someone print Tux t-shirts? Anything largish will be seen by the
entry people and SCO's sign-up page states that they reserve the right
to refuse entry so we have to be very carefull or else we won't get in
at all. Standing outside will help, but not as much as if we could all
get inside then quietly and simultaneously do something (like the
flash-mob idea someone else had). 

Why I was asking about the t-shirts is that if we could all run off and
get t-shirts on during a break that will be very noticeable but we could
probably sneak them in without being noticed and getting us turned away.
Buttons would be an even easier thing to sneak in but they would be
harder to see.

I'd throw $20 at a t-shirt, anyone else?

Madison

PS - I love the idea of a huge source code print out but that would be
too big and get you barred, I would imagine.

On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 12:43, Keith Mastin wrote:
> > On 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
> > Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got to
> >> come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO people
> >> wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh, and I have a
> >> small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I somehow doubt
> >> video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent events).
> >
> > Wouldn't real geeks have those cellular phones that can do text, video
> > and sound!
> >
> > BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily plead
> > it down to "causing a disturbance".
> 
> All hollywood pipedreams set aside, are there any organized plans for
> protest at the SCO thingy? Where are those tree huggers when we need them?
> A public display of protest will make it more difficult for SCO to say
> that they are supported or condoned by the toronto linux community.
> 
> I'de be willing to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and harrass the
> public if I knew I wasn't alone in it. With enough people and good
> planning we could get just a little media attention. I would hate to see
> after-the-fact that SCO reports support and success in Toronto, and a bit
> of adversary interest might take that away from them.
> 
> Does anyone on the list have any experience with this kind of thing?

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 02:02:20 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 22:02:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309172201450.4594-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:

> You're a bit confused.  While IP address from RAS or other dial up 
> access appear dynamic, they don't use dhcp.  Normally, a phone line is 
> assigned it's own IP and whatever computer connects to that line, gets 
> that IP.  If there are multiple lines, there will be mulitple IP 
> addresses, and whichever address you get, depends on what line you 
> connect to.  From the user point of view, the addresses are dynamic (not 
> dhcp), but from the ISP point of view, they're static.  On the other 
> hand, dhcp is used on ethernet, token ring or other multiple access 
> networks, to assign IP addresses, on an as needed basis.  A dial up line 
> has no need of a dhcp server and using one wouldn't help an ISP.

How would a client get a static IP, if when he connects, he gets a
different line? This is, assuming the client paid for the static IP, and 
the ISP set him up.

Whouldn't there be an entry at the DHCP server, specifying a reservation 
for that client?

If you say the IPs are statically set on the phone lines, then how would
the ISP hand out dynamic information to the RAS clients, if say one of
their DNS servers goes down? Options such as default gateway, primary and
secondary DNS are scope options set at the DHCP server.

An article, that relates to this:
http://www.winnetmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5413

Does anybody else have some input on this?

--
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 17 05:31:03 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 17 Sep 2003 01:31:03 -0400
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most
	recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: <20030916205715.6333F4488-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	 <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
	 <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	 <20030916172945.3672878D05@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
	 <20030916205715.6333F4488@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <1063776662.12903.12.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

If I can toot my own horn for a moment; tracking best-of-breed hardware
is what I do for a living. I am not the cheapest and I will admit that
right up front but I am really pretty good at picking out uber-reliable
components and verifying linux-compatibility. I am working on
integrating what I know into a website which, once it is up, will
hopefully be something you guys and gals could reference even if you buy
it somewhere else. (I am not a retail store so I wouldn't mind helping
out by e-mail even if you have plans to grab stuff elsewhere - I aim
mostly at hardware and machines for companies). 

Seeing how I can't program to save my life it might be a way I could
give back to the community rather than normally leaching info like I
normally do ;).

Madison

On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 16:57, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Which boards/companies are these?  Sounds like these boards/companies are
> > linux-friendly and should be remembered when we're asked to give hardware
> > purchase recommondations.
> > 
> > I'm interested in developing a short list of recommendable systems/parts
> > for various usage types.
> 
> The unfortunate problem with this is that there is _heavy_ churn of
> these products.  The motherboard that you really liked last month is
> liable to get replaced by a newer model in 3 months thereby making the
> information obsolete.
> 
> The approach that would be more likely to be worthwhile would be to go
> "global" on building a compatibility database, so that MANY people could
> be involved in figuring out which parts work well, and then have a
> "regional availability" table that allows people in different regions
> create 'views' indicating what hardware is available locally.
> Regrettably, that latter part goes stale quickly.
> --
> If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
> http://cbbrowne.com/info/oses.html
> The difference between a  child and a hacker  is the amount he  flames
> about his toys.  -- Ed Schwalenberg
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 19:24:16 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 22:24:16 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Xerox 3110
In-Reply-To: <3F68F6F3.5080102-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F68F6F3.5080102@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309182221130.626@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Thanks John, this is solid info. I will look into it further. My
calculations showed 6 cents/page using the specified Xerox original refill
toner. I'm also interested in getting this to work under older linux
distros (2.2 kernels) with or without backpatching drivers.

thank you very much, this was very useful,

Peter

On Wed, 17 Sep 2003, John McGregor wrote:

> This is a rebranded Samsung ML-1210 (also sold as the Lexmark 210). In
> any iteration its a really solid machine and known to work with Redhat
> 7.3 + and Mandrake 8.2+. The problem is that the replacement toner
> cartridges for the Xerox and Lexmark models are $149.99 CDN but when
> purchased for the Samsung are $89.99 CDN. Further the cartridges for the
> latter two are not interchangeable with the former and are only rated
> for 2500 pages as opposed to 4000 page impressions for the Samsung. The
> current Samsung model in this series is the ML 1430 which is currently
> selling for $269.99 in the greater Toronto area.
>
> John McGregor
>
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>
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 20:45:39 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:45:39 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152052310.4673-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152052310.4673-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <200309181645.39170.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 15 September 2003 21:00, Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> > You're a bit confused.  While IP address from RAS or other dial up
> > access appear dynamic, they don't use dhcp.  Normally, a phone line is
> > assigned it's own IP and whatever computer connects to that line, gets
> > that IP.  If there are multiple lines, there will be mulitple IP
> > addresses, and whichever address you get, depends on what line you
> > connect to.  From the user point of view, the addresses are dynamic (not

I missed the fact that this conversation was about Microsoft's RAS, maybe I'm 
confused with another conversation?

> How would a client get a static IP, if when he connects, he gets a
> different line? This is, assuming the client paid for the static IP, and
> the ISP set him up.

Way back when I'd stated that dialup doesn't use DHCP, I was thinking of 
dialup in the ISP sense where people dial into a terminal server and get a 
ppp connection.  While I've never seen dhcp used for this that might be 
because I've only seen Livingston Portmasters, perhaps other terminal servers 
do use dhcp.

In the case of a Livingston portmaster you assign the terminal server a range 
of IPs and it allocates IPs on a first-come/first-serve basis from the bottom 
of the pool.  First 5 lines will get first 5 addresses, if line 4 disconnects 
as line 6 is connecting then the 6th line will end up getting the 4th IP.  
This assumes no static assignment of IPs which can be done in RADIUS or in a 
local users file on the terminal server itself.

> If you say the IPs are statically set on the phone lines, then how would
> the ISP hand out dynamic information to the RAS clients, if say one of
> their DNS servers goes down? Options such as default gateway, primary and
> secondary DNS are scope options set at the DHCP server.

Why would they need DNS to assign you an IP?  Why would they need DHCP to 
assign you a DNS server ... those assignments are generally handled within 
the ppp protocol.  Then again, if we're talking about Microsoft's RAS server 
I could be way off base.

> An article, that relates to this:
> http://www.winnetmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5413
>
> Does anybody else have some input on this?

God help any ISPs that use Microsoft RAS for their dialup solution, glad I've 
escaped any such attrocities so far.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 20:45:53 2003
From: tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org (Mailing List)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:45:53 -0400
Subject: apt-get is trying to get unstable
Message-ID: <E1A05ez-0002a2-00@cage.robertsearle.com>

Hi,

  I was looking to see what was needed to install
apt from the unstable branch.  Too much
was needed for my preferences.

I ran apt-get this morning and it 
still want to update a bunch, e.g. 300 packages, 
from the unstable tree.  How do I tell it to forget
about what it wants to do?  I just want it to look
at the testing / sarge stream. 

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 20:47:42 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 16:47:42 -0400
Subject: Xerox 3110
In-Reply-To: <3F68F6F3.5080102-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F68F6F3.5080102@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200309181647.42866.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 17 September 2003 20:06, John McGregor wrote:

> This is a rebranded Samsung ML-1210 (also sold as the Lexmark 210). In
> any iteration its a really solid machine and known to work with Redhat
> 7.3 + and Mandrake 8.2+.

I bought that printer for my mother.  She runs Debian and hasn't had any 
printing problems either.  Very happy with ML-1210, my own Samsung laser 
(5100 something) and my 19" Samsung monitor.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 21:16:34 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:16:34 -0400
Subject: apt-get is trying to get unstable
In-Reply-To: <E1A05ez-0002a2-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1A05ez-0002a2-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <20030918211634.GE20851@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 04:45:53PM -0400, Mailing List wrote:
>   I was looking to see what was needed to install
> apt from the unstable branch.  Too much
> was needed for my preferences.
> 
> I ran apt-get this morning and it 
> still want to update a bunch, e.g. 300 packages, 
> from the unstable tree.  How do I tell it to forget
> about what it wants to do?  I just want it to look
> at the testing / sarge stream. 

Make sure unstable or sid is no longer mentioned in
/etc/apt/sources.list then run apt-get update

Lennart Sorensen
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From zhunt-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 22:38:03 2003
From: zhunt-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Zoltan)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:38:03 -0500
Subject: OT: Canada comes 3rd in High-speed access
Message-ID: <003f01c37e35$85ec05b0$1a0ce540@D2XGQ811>

If anyone is looking for some good news via internet usage, the Globe had a story yesterday that Canada has the 3rd highest (behind S. Korea and Hong Kong) high-speed internet usage. 

Zoltan
www.zee4.com
-------------- next part --------------
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 21:45:34 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:45:34 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152052310.4673-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152052310.4673-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <3F6A277E.2040900@rogers.com>

Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> On Mon, 15 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> 
> 
>>You're a bit confused.  While IP address from RAS or other dial up 
>>access appear dynamic, they don't use dhcp.  Normally, a phone line is 
>>assigned it's own IP and whatever computer connects to that line, gets 
>>that IP.  If there are multiple lines, there will be mulitple IP 
>>addresses, and whichever address you get, depends on what line you 
>>connect to.  From the user point of view, the addresses are dynamic (not 
>>dhcp), but from the ISP point of view, they're static.  On the other 
>>hand, dhcp is used on ethernet, token ring or other multiple access 
>>networks, to assign IP addresses, on an as needed basis.  A dial up line 
>>has no need of a dhcp server and using one wouldn't help an ISP.
> 
> 
> How would a client get a static IP, if when he connects, he gets a
> different line? This is, assuming the client paid for the static IP, and 
> the ISP set him up.
> 
> Whouldn't there be an entry at the DHCP server, specifying a reservation 
> for that client?
> 
> If you say the IPs are statically set on the phone lines, then how would
> the ISP hand out dynamic information to the RAS clients, if say one of
> their DNS servers goes down? Options such as default gateway, primary and
> secondary DNS are scope options set at the DHCP server.

PPP supports assigning the address from either end.  If you have a 
static address, you put it into your configuration.  This will (if 
permitted) override the address that would otherwise be assigned.  If 
you don't have a static address, you get whatever address is associated 
with the phone line you connect to.

> 
> An article, that relates to this:
> http://www.winnetmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5413
> 
> Does anybody else have some input on this?
> 
> --
> Teodor I.
> http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
> GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 22:13:42 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 18:13:42 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <3F64E816.1020600@rogers.com>

> Hi all. I currently run a server farm in a small Northern Ontario town.
> I have been approached by the town and asked if I could offer high speed
> (or higher than dialup) to the 4,000 or so people who live in the town,
> an area of about 5km. My building is located near the center of the

If it were me in this position, I would indeed have a good tower & 
antenna setup on my building. I would complement that, however, with 
similar setups (not many, 3-5 more) at other geographically dispersed 
locations within the town.

These 'collector' points would service a geogrpahically appropriate 
subset of the town and act as uplinks to your 'master' location, as well 
as being able to route to the other corresponding locations. Spread 
around the bandwidth a little too. You'd wind up with a simple mesh 
topology, some measure of redundancy, and you wouldn't need as much RF 
power nor as large antennas. And antennas can get expensive, believe me. 
With 802.11a/b/g though you can make alot of your own antennas or mod 
those digital satellite dishes, dump the LNBs, drop in a Pringles 
cantenna and *presto* get nearly 40km line of site links. But install 
and aim your antennas in the spring when the trees have grown! Like this 
one site I came across says, if you aim in winter and get excellent 
links, they'll go to shit once trees that are in the way start growing 
leaves again.

Another advantage is that as the town grows, you could 'upscale' some of 
these 'collector' points to act as redundant paths to the internet if 
other methods of connectivity are implemented nearby. Also if the towns 
develop you can expand the mesh more easily instead of having to up the 
RF power/sensitivity of the 'master' site and/or adding more antennas.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 15 01:32:19 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 21:32:19 -0400
Subject: Problems With List?
In-Reply-To: <200309101105.50715.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5E849E.70008@sympatico.ca> <1063172667.6241.2.camel@linux.local> <200309101105.50715.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F6516A3.2090305@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 September 2003 01:44, Jason Shein wrote:
> 
> 
>>I posted about a week ago topic was about the sharp Zaurus. Then I tried
>>to reply to a posting and I got
>>"Your message was not delivered within 4 days. Host ss.org is not
>>responding."
> 
> 
> Did it really say "Host ss.org is not responding" or was it "Host lethe.ss.org 
> is not responding"?  It's an important difference.  It should have been 
> lethe.ss.org otherwise there's something funny going on (funnier than just 
> plain connectivity issues).
> 


Here's what I received.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Mail System Error - Returned Mail
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2003 06:07:22 -0400
From: Mail Administrator <Postmaster-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: Mail Administrator <Postmaster-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org

This Message was undeliverable due to the following reason:

Your message was not delivered because the destination computer was
not reachable within the allowed queue period.  The amount of time
a message is queued before it is returned depends on local configura-
tion parameters.

Most likely there is a network problem that prevented delivery, but
it is also possible that the computer is turned off, or does not
have a mail system running right now.

Your message was not delivered within 4 days.
Host ss.org is not responding.

The following recipients did not receive this message:

      <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>

Please reply to Postmaster-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
if you feel this message to be in error.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 21:54:34 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 17:54:34 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <00d401c37a60$34ddb520$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <3F6A299A.3040506@rogers.com>

Sidney Shapiro wrote:
> Hi all. I currently run a server farm in a small Northern Ontario town.
> I have been approached by the town and asked if I could offer high speed
> (or higher than dialup) to the 4,000 or so people who live in the town,
> an area of about 5km. My building is located near the center of the
> town, and does not have direct line of site to a lot of the town, yet
> there are no major structural impedances. Does anyone have an idea of
> how I could get this working? From what I assume, I could put up an
> extra server to act as a gateway to my switches and from there to the
> routers. On the other end of the server, I would run an antenna on the
> roof from a wireless router type box. (I have been looking at the D-Link
> ANT24-1801 Yagi antenna for a base or the SMC SMCANT-DI105 10.5 dBi
> Antenna or the SMCANT-DI145 High Gain 14.5 dBi Antenna - which they
> claim can reach 9 miles without LOS) Once the main base is set up with
> enough power, I would like to be able to install a smaller wireless
> antenna attached to a router in the persons office/home. I am looking to
> do a dry run with about 50 antennas and routers, and expand from there.
> Any suggestions regarding the backend of the service to control access
> and services? Any alt hardware? Is there a P2P solution for this which
> would allow users to boost each others signals?

Are you saying you want to use wireless to distribute the internet
access?  I think you'd need a bit more than what's available with common
wireless gear.  For example, you mention the high gain antenna.  It will
be very directional and limit the area you can service.  You'd be better
using an omni-directional antenna at the base and high gain directional
antennas at the customer.  You'd also want to use equipment designed for
multipoint distribution, such as what Look was using a few years
ago.Also, how does the internet connection get into town?  There's a
couple of O'Reilly books that cover much of what you're planning.




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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 23:11:00 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:11:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: <1063776662.12903.12.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
        <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
        <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>
        <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
        <20030916172945.3672878D05@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
        <20030916205715.6333F4488@cbbrowne.com>
        <1063776662.12903.12.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <10095.216.138.194.32.1063926660.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> If I can toot my own horn for a moment; tracking best-of-breed hardware
> is what I do for a living. I am not the cheapest and I will admit that
> right up front but I am really pretty good at picking out uber-reliable
> components and verifying linux-compatibility. I am working on
> integrating what I know into a website which, once it is up, will
> hopefully be something you guys and gals could reference even if you buy
> it somewhere else. (I am not a retail store so I wouldn't mind helping
> out by e-mail even if you have plans to grab stuff elsewhere - I aim
> mostly at hardware and machines for companies).
>
> Seeing how I can't program to save my life it might be a way I could
> give back to the community rather than normally leaching info like I
> normally do ;).

What about a website where other members could contribute too, as in a
wiki? I know I do a fair bit of hardware research, and having an outside
depositry for that info, manuals, etc. might not be a bad idea. I was
thinking of hosting this too at one point, but doing the math on the
bandwidth didn't exactly work out favorable.


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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 23:40:31 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:40:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <3F679005.2020503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309152110510.970109-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309152311480.4665@ns.istop.com> <3F679005.2020503@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309181939370.23189@ns.istop.com>

On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:

> Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> One of the new boxes is
> > now sitting in the bottom of my rack in 151 Front St, ready to go live
> > sometime in the next week or so.
>
> Where in 151 Front St. W. are you located?  At one time, I worked for
> Unitel in that building and did the planning for most of new installs
> there.  My office was in the extreme NE corner of the 5th fl.

We colo with Raco in 603 and 704.
Your old office has probably been converted to datacenter space; there is
very little regular office space left now in the bldg.

-Ralph

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 23:37:53 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:37:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <1063733044.12903.7.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
        <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
        <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
        <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Can someone print Tux t-shirts? Anything largish will be seen by the
> entry people and SCO's sign-up page states that they reserve the right
> to refuse entry so we have to be very carefull or else we won't get in
> at all. Standing outside will help, but not as much as if we could all
> get inside then quietly and simultaneously do something (like the
> flash-mob idea someone else had).
>
> Why I was asking about the t-shirts is that if we could all run off and
> get t-shirts on during a break that will be very noticeable but we could
> probably sneak them in without being noticed and getting us turned away.
> Buttons would be an even easier thing to sneak in but they would be
> harder to see.
>
> I'd throw $20 at a t-shirt, anyone else?
>
> Madison
>
> PS - I love the idea of a huge source code print out but that would be
> too big and get you barred, I would imagine.

IMHO, this is missing the point entirely. The only way I would participate
is if the goal is to take the air of public acceptance away from them. To
pull anything off without publicity is meaningless- we might as well email
the CEO of SCO and stick our tongues out at him.

I don't want to go inside without a specific reason, and I'm not
interested in what they have to say for themselves. At the same time, I
don't want them to be able to walk away from Toronto and in good faith say
that they were warmly received by the linux community here. If other lugs
would copy the process in other cities on the tour it could eventually
have some impact.

IMHO we don't want to go and put the dignity of the linux community or the
GPL at stake here. I think a few quiet people with placards and handouts
with specific points of protest rather than "SCO sux, not tux" would be
more appropriate.

An internal disruption carries significant risks both legally and to the
reputation of the linux community. SCO has the lawyers, let's not pretend
that they won't be quick to use them. One or two well placed questioners
and a few supportive audience members should be sufficient to make some
noise without attracting too much attention.

And if we're gonna have any claim of being representative of anything, it
will need some positive direction and input by the group about what
exactly the message is. Having members representing other groups like clic
and all the resources they could bring would be handy, and I'de be willing
to bet that they'de be more than willing to participate

>
> On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 12:43, Keith Mastin wrote:
>> > On 15 Sep 2003 18:35:11 -0400
>> > Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Oh now, pies and eggs are for politicians, we're geeks! We've got
>> to come up with something subtly devious, something that the SCO
>> people wouldn't even catch onto until it was far too late :) Oh,
>> and I have a small micro-cassette recorder to document the fun. (I
>> somehow doubt video or digital cameras will be allowed after recent
>> events).
>> >
>> > Wouldn't real geeks have those cellular phones that can do text,
>> video and sound!
>> >
>> > BTW, Bryon, you'll only get charged with assault. You can easily
>> plead it down to "causing a disturbance".
>>
>> All hollywood pipedreams set aside, are there any organized plans for
>> protest at the SCO thingy? Where are those tree huggers when we need
>> them? A public display of protest will make it more difficult for SCO
>> to say that they are supported or condoned by the toronto linux
>> community.
>>
>> I'de be willing to stand on the sidewalk with a sign and harrass the
>> public if I knew I wasn't alone in it. With enough people and good
>> planning we could get just a little media attention. I would hate to
>> see after-the-fact that SCO reports support and success in Toronto,
>> and a bit of adversary interest might take that away from them.
>>
>> Does anyone on the list have any experience with this kind of thing?
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 18 23:49:04 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:49:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
In-Reply-To: <3F67990B.3040806-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030902222344.3943.qmail@wm0.netfirms.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309021842110.14625@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
        <3F555ACA.5090900@rogers.com>
        <20030903200759.GT21637@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
        <3F576486.1010607@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>
        <29566.216.138.194.32.1062905865.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <3F5B204D.9070602@rogers.com>
        <10255.216.138.194.32.1062953175.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <3F67990B.3040806@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <10155.216.138.194.32.1063928944.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> I picked up the bit of trivia on the radio one night (I know, I know).
>> Seems that the cost of replacing the entire system (which they would
>> have to apparently) is less than replacing the parts. IIRC, their
>> supplier only has one customer... them.
>
> Cosidering some of the things I've heard on the radio, they're really
> not much of an authoritative source.  There have been a few articles
> over the years about aging aviation systems, but they weren't that old.,
> dating back to the '60s or '70s  Also, consider what a vacuum tube
> computer is capable of doing, compared with any personal computer build
> in the past 20 years.  There's no way they'd be doing much.

Just processing radar and flight information is my guess. They have to
replace the entire infrastructure to accomodate newer technology, plus
programming and training, replacing servers, clients, etc... while the old
technology still works. Why go through the expense of upgrading? At least,
that was the gist of what I got out of it.




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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 00:24:56 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:24:56 -0400
Subject: [OT] tcpdump
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309181346310.25323-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309181346310.25323@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030919002456.GA4935@anarchy.ca>

On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 01:52:11PM -0400, gbell72 wrote:
> 12:56:22.053052
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242 >
> 165.254.12.101.http: S 152256065:152256065(0) win 8192 <mss
> 1460,nop,nop,sackOK> (DF)

Assuming the rogers.com host is you, it looks like you're connecting to a
webserver running on that IP address. Nothing to worry about with that.

>  12:56:22.089174 165.254.12.101.http >
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242: S
> 4259504041:4259504041(0) ack 152256066 win 65535 <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackOK>
> (DF)
>  12:56:22.089562
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242 >
> 165.254.12.101.http: . ack 1 win 8760 (DF)
>  12:56:22.090183
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3242 >
> 165.254.12.101.http: P 1:280(279) ack 1 win 8760 (DF)

These are just other packets from the same connection. No big deal.

>  12:56:22.780155
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245 >
> 165.254.12.101.http: S 152256793:152256793(0) win 8192 <mss
> 1460,nop,nop,sackOK> (DF)
>  12:56:22.789197 poppit03.pogo.com.http >
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3244: P
> 1116:1303(187) ack 1166 win 24820 (DF)
>  12:56:22.820501 165.254.12.101.http >
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245: S
> 4268719919:4268719919(0) ack 152256794 win 65535 <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackOK>
> (DF)
>  12:56:22.820904
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245 >
> 165.254.12.101.http: . ack 1 win 8760 (DF)
>  12:56:22.821503
> CPE0004758dbf50-CM024480006068.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com.3245 >
> 165.254.12.101.http: P 1:280(279) ack 1 win 8760 (DF)
> 
> I've googled keywords <mss 1460,nop,nop,sackok> and have noticed that some
> people have respinded that it's a possible worm.  From viewing my logs I
> see nothing to be overly concerned about just more so curious as to what
> this person or persons are up to.

Those are TCP flags, and there is absoltely nothing malicious about them. 

If you really want to figure out what it is, use tcpdump with the flags 
-s 1500 and -X. This will print out the contents of each packet. Though,
it might be easier to just have tcpdump write to a file, which you can
then open with ethereal and examine entire connections at once. 

And try not to worry about every weird packet that goes by. Trust me,
you'll go nuts. And chances are there's nothing malicious happening.

Also consider investing in TCP/IP Illustrated Volume 1, by W. Richard
Stevens. It's a great book that'll explain all the protocols and can help
you figure out what's going on.

good luck,
-cgm.
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From doug-pOxTxMRH1nMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 00:28:12 2003
From: doug-pOxTxMRH1nMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org (doug mackenzie)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 19:28:12 -0500
Subject: DNS reverse lookup problems...
Message-ID: <200309190028.h8J0SHC10365@optimal.optimalweb.com>

Hello!
recently, my sympatico ADSL stopped functioning correctly. Using the roaring
penguin pppoe script 'adsl-connect' I can connect to the internet, showing
me the list of remote IP address, local IP address, and the IP addresses of
the 2 DNS servers for sympatico.

I can ping IP addresses successfully, but when I try to ping a domain, I get
the error message "www.whatever.com not found". When I attempt to connect to
the internet through my windows partition, there is no problem, and this
leads me to believe that the problem is with my linux settings, rather than
with the sympatico dns servers. Where would I go to correct my linux
configuration?

regards,
doug

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 00:32:33 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 20:32:33 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309181939370.23189-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309152110510.970109-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309152311480.4665@ns.istop.com> <3F679005.2020503@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309181939370.23189@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F6A4EA1.3050501@rogers.com>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> 
> 
>>Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>>One of the new boxes is
>>
>>>now sitting in the bottom of my rack in 151 Front St, ready to go live
>>>sometime in the next week or so.
>>
>>Where in 151 Front St. W. are you located?  At one time, I worked for
>>Unitel in that building and did the planning for most of new installs
>>there.  My office was in the extreme NE corner of the 5th fl.
> 
> 
> We colo with Raco in 603 and 704.
> Your old office has probably been converted to datacenter space; there is
> very little regular office space left now in the bldg.

Yes, I know.  Unitel was planning on moving out, when I was still there. 
  The 6th and 7th floors used to be Air Canada Univac and Collins 
computers for their old reservation system and previously, the 7th floor 
was the regional headquarters offices.  In fact, IIRC, 704 was the 
Regional Managers office, right in the NE corner.  Back when I was in 
planning there, I had over 2,000 racks to look after and we ran about 
7000 amps at -48V!  The main central office was on the 4th and 5th 
floors and there were also some message switching computer systems on 
the 4th.




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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 03:05:50 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 18 Sep 2003 23:05:50 -0400
Subject: DNS reverse lookup problems...
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A91FF@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I had a similar problem several months ago with 2 of my customers. I was lazy and just used different DNS servers and that fixed the problem. 

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: doug mackenzie [mailto:doug-pOxTxMRH1nMdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2003 8:28 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

Hello!
recently, my sympatico ADSL stopped functioning correctly. Using the roaring
penguin pppoe script 'adsl-connect' I can connect to the internet, showing
me the list of remote IP address, local IP address, and the IP addresses of
the 2 DNS servers for sympatico.

I can ping IP addresses successfully, but when I try to ping a domain, I get
the error message "www.whatever.com not found". When I attempt to connect to
the internet through my windows partition, there is no problem, and this
leads me to believe that the problem is with my linux settings, rather than
with the sympatico dns servers. Where would I go to correct my linux
configuration?

regards,
doug

--
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 03:09:45 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 18 Sep 2003 23:09:45 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	 <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	 <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	 <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	 <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

> IMHO, this is missing the point entirely. The only way I would participate
> is if the goal is to take the air of public acceptance away from them. To
> pull anything off without publicity is meaningless- we might as well email
> the CEO of SCO and stick our tongues out at him.
> 
> I don't want to go inside without a specific reason, and I'm not
> interested in what they have to say for themselves. At the same time, I
> don't want them to be able to walk away from Toronto and in good faith say
> that they were warmly received by the linux community here. If other lugs
> would copy the process in other cities on the tour it could eventually
> have some impact.
> 
> IMHO we don't want to go and put the dignity of the linux community or the
> GPL at stake here. I think a few quiet people with placards and handouts
> with specific points of protest rather than "SCO sux, not tux" would be
> more appropriate.
> 
> An internal disruption carries significant risks both legally and to the
> reputation of the linux community. SCO has the lawyers, let's not pretend
> that they won't be quick to use them. One or two well placed questioners
> and a few supportive audience members should be sufficient to make some
> noise without attracting too much attention.
> 
> And if we're gonna have any claim of being representative of anything, it
> will need some positive direction and input by the group about what
> exactly the message is. Having members representing other groups like clic
> and all the resources they could bring would be handy, and I'de be willing
> to bet that they'de be more than willing to participate

Fair enough, I guess my biggest concern is that if it's handle
improperly that we would end up looking like childish anarchists rather
than intelligent people with a point. I like your (and some of the
other) ideas that have been floated here but I just wanted to make sure,
as much as I can, that it is done tactfully so that we can bee seen in a
mature light.

Madison

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 04:29:54 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:29:54 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <1063940984.12903.36.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>	 <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>	 <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>	 <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>	 <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>	 <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>	 <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3F6A8642.7060405@rogers.com>

> Fair enough, I guess my biggest concern is that if it's handle
> improperly that we would end up looking like childish anarchists

Your sentiment is certainly understandable and no doubt the higher road, 
but sometimes, just sometimes, people need a good kick in the balls in 
order to smarten up. Talk is cheap.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 04:38:08 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:38:08 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <1063940984.12903.36.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com> <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20030919043808.GA10544@anarchy.ca>

On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 11:09:45PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Fair enough, I guess my biggest concern is that if it's handle
> improperly that we would end up looking like childish anarchists rather
> than intelligent people with a point.

How about understanding what Anarchism truly represents before you go
around calling them childish and suggesting they don't have an intelligent
point.

Google will point you in the right direction.

-cgm.
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 04:40:04 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:40:04 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <20030919043808.GA10544-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com> <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca> <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030919043808.GA10544@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <3F6A88A4.2070804@rogers.com>

>> we would end up looking like childish anarchists 
> How about understanding what Anarchism truly represents

To be fair to both sides, it should be stated that 'anarchy' and 
'anarchism' are two different beasts. 'Anarchy' being more properly 
equated to chaos, and 'Anarchism' being a sociopolitical implementation 
that totally eliminates government and substitues interpersonal 
cooperation instead.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 07:53:26 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 03:53:26 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
Message-ID: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>

I have been getting just _inundated_ with the stupid "Security
messages from Microsoft" spam messages.  A couple thousand since noon.
X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)

Anyone else know of something Truly Evil going on?

[Yes, the hour is atrocious.  Server outage, as well :-(.] 
-- 
wm(X,Y):-write(X),write('@'),write(Y). wm('cbbrowne','cbbrowne.com').
http://cbbrowne.com/info/
"...the  Jedi learned  early   on  what  language   the universe   was
programmed in. Then they took advantage of  an accident of language to
obscure this  fact from the  unwashed.  They all affected  an inverted
lisp. so, a Jedi to be, you the Forth must use."
--
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 09:46:23 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 05:46:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309190545090.13797@xword.rogers.com>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Christopher Browne wrote:

> I have been getting just _inundated_ with the stupid "Security
> messages from Microsoft" spam messages.  A couple thousand since noon.
> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)

     I've been getting an increasing number of them for a couple of
     week; it hit monstrous proportions today, inbcluding filling up
     my mailbox at Rogers when there was a service interruption.

>
> Anyone else know of something Truly Evil going on?
>
> [Yes, the hour is atrocious.  Server outage, as well :-(.]
>

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 10:07:08 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 06:07:08 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <200309190607.08963.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 19 September 2003 03:53, Christopher Browne wrote:

> I have been getting just _inundated_ with the stupid "Security
> messages from Microsoft" spam messages.  A couple thousand since noon.
> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)

I received 47 messages overnight that either begin like this:

    this is the latest version of security update, the
    "September 2003, Cumulative Patch" update which fixes
    all known security vulnerabilities affecting
    MS Internet Explorer, MS Outlook and MS Outlook Express
    as well as three newly discovered vulnerabilities.

Or are faked bounce messages that say your attached message couldn't be 
delivered, the attached messages is an exe file.

Just did a quick check online, there a shiny new worm called Gibe-F:

    http://www.sophos.com/virusinfo/articles/gibef.html

There ought to be a law against Windows on the Internet.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 11:27:49 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 07:27:49 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F6A88A4.2070804-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
	<3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
	<1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
	<26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<20030919043808.GA10544@anarchy.ca>
	<3F6A88A4.2070804@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030919072749.44c9143a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:40:04 -0400
Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> eliminates government and substitues interpersonal 
> cooperation instead.

kinda sounds like OSS, no? :-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is only with the heart one can see clearly; what is essential is
invisible to the eye.
		-- The Fox, 'The Little Prince"
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 12:24:05 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:24:05 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: Message from Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 07:08 EDT." <200309190607.08963.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>  
 <200309190607.08963.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030919122406.1C8FE42FA@cbbrowne.com>

> There ought to be a law against Windows on the Internet.

The theory is that someone on one of the PostgreSQL mailing lists has gotten 
hit by the virus.

And people wonder why there is a reluctance on the part of that project team 
to commit to the importance of doing a super-incredible Windows port...

I am increasingly with Tom Christiansen that...

"Huh?  Windows  was designed to keep  the idiots away from  Unix so we
could hack in peace.  Let's not break that." -- Tom Christiansen

Unfortunately, that is broken,this week...
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc"))
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html
"I think it  would be great if MS would make  VB the favoured language
for Palm PC's.  Then they'd have a shaky, bloated, slow OS running the
shaky, bloated, slow macro-apps."  -- <garyduke-Ok/gA51qFSi/m4Yiz1xkWtBPR1lH4CV8 at public.gmane.org>


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From awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 12:59:15 2003
From: awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org (Drew Hamilton)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:59:15 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919122406.1C8FE42FA-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com> <200309190607.08963.fraser@wehave.net> <20030919122406.1C8FE42FA@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <20030919125915.GA25544%awh@awh.org>

On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 08:24:05AM -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> "Huh?  Windows  was designed to keep  the idiots away from  Unix so we
> could hack in peace.  Let's not break that." -- Tom Christiansen

Wow, that's pretty snobbish and elitist.  No wonder nobody likes
computer geeks.

 - awh

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 13:27:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:27:15 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919125915.GA25544%awh-z32R3RYGf1M@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
	<200309190607.08963.fraser@wehave.net>
	<20030919122406.1C8FE42FA@cbbrowne.com>
	<20030919125915.GA25544%awh@awh.org>
Message-ID: <20030919092715.53e52658.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:59:15 -0400
Drew Hamilton <awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Wow, that's pretty snobbish and elitist.  No wonder nobody likes
> computer geeks.

and the "No sense of Humour Award" goes to... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are no accidents whatsoever in the universe.
		-- Baba Ram Dass
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From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 14:28:51 2003
From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 09:28:51 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919125915.GA25544%awh-z32R3RYGf1M@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919125915.GA25544%awh@awh.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0309190928130.22046-100000@pixelated>

i guess linux keeps the idiots away from bsd!

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Drew Hamilton wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 08:24:05AM -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > "Huh?  Windows  was designed to keep  the idiots away from  Unix so we
> > could hack in peace.  Let's not break that." -- Tom Christiansen
>
> Wow, that's pretty snobbish and elitist.  No wonder nobody likes
> computer geeks.
>
>  - awh
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 14:43:13 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:43:13 +0300
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead
Message-ID: <BAY99-F22hgzn2Lmy3J0000dd33@hotmail.com>

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 14:57:34 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:57:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F6A8642.7060405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
        <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
        <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
        <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <3F6A8642.7060405@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <10172.216.138.194.32.1063983454.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


>> Fair enough, I guess my biggest concern is that if it's handle
>> improperly that we would end up looking like childish anarchists
>
> Your sentiment is certainly understandable and no doubt the higher road,
>  but sometimes, just sometimes, people need a good kick in the balls in
> order to smarten up. Talk is cheap.

Agreed, but it's no less cheap than stupidity. :)  I'm not sure we have
the boot big enough to do any good on SCO's balls, so execrcising some
discretion until someone shows up with the size 15 boot who can deliver
the swift kick is not necessarily out of order or toothless. :)

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 15:19:55 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 11:19:55 -0400
Subject: This is the best soap opera going yet..
Message-ID: <004c01c37ec1$7d70acb0$0200a8c0@viper>


DARL McBride, CEO of SCO writes a threatening letter to the open source community....
http://www.sco.com/company/openletter/

Eric Raymond and Bruce Perens, Defenders of the Faith.
http://linuxtoday.com/news_story.php3?ltsn=2003-09-10-016-26-OS-CD-CY

This is the best soap opera going yet.....

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From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 17:03:52 2003
From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:03:52 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <3F6A299A.3040506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6A299A.3040506@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHMEBFCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>

What I'm curious about is what small Northern Ontario town has a server farm
in it. I lived in small Northern Ontario towns (Longlac, Terrace Bay,
Schreiber) for 12+ years and no one was cool enough to have a server farm
anywhere near where I lived. I wish someone had been that sophisticated.

Frank (now in Mississauga)

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From rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 17:13:13 2003
From: rdice-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Richard Dice)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:13:13 -0400
Subject: questions about / request for help with GRUB
Message-ID: <3F6B3929.4030106@pobox.com>

Hello, everyone...

I was hoping someone out there would help me out with some questions 
regarding grub.  I've been using lilo for years for my dual boot system 
(Win98/Linux) but I've recently upgraded my Windows to WinXP and from 
what I understand this mandates grub rather that lilo.  So, I'm looking 
to move things over.

I'd like to experiment by first creating a grub floppy -- I figure best 
to make sure things work there first before I target the MBR of my hard 
drive.  Once that works then I'll target the MBR.

I wish there were some "grub recipes" out there that I could copy off 
of;  as it stands, the grub documentation is kind of abstract and seems 
to assume deep knowledge of booting philosophy, as well as the grub way 
of doing things.

So, first question:  is there any way to avoid the "grub shell"?  I'd 
like to just specify a file that has all the info in it necessary and 
just go from there.  If this can be done, what should the path&name of 
the file be?  What command line should I invoke grub with to do the job?

If this is possible, then the first task is making a grub conf file that 
targets a floppy disk and has boot options for WinXP (on /dev/hda1) and 
Linux (with a /root partition on /dev/hda2; no seperate /boot partition).

Second, I want to do the same, but with a grub conf file that targets 
the MBR of /dev/hda.

In case it helps, I run Debian GNU/Linux 3.0.

Thanks very much for your help...

Cheers,
Richard

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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 17:12:43 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:12:43 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
References: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHMEBFCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <006201c37ed1$3f435db0$0200a8c0@viper>


12 years ago the "cool tools" where a lot more expensive than they are now.
Imagine a server farm or even a unix server 12 years ago? $$$$$$$$$$

Even as recently as in the 90's I used to buy one CDR at $15USD EACH in
Chicago,
and thought it was a bargain.  I remember selling some used 16MB SIMMS for
$500 cash, each.

I used to live in small Northern town, and yes, I agree. They more rustic.
"root" to them, means the stuff in the ground.

What about a car trip out to this location?



----- Original Message -----
From: "Erebus" <erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2003 1:03 PM
Subject: RE: [TLUG]: Wireless Service for a small town


> What I'm curious about is what small Northern Ontario town has a server
farm
> in it. I lived in small Northern Ontario towns (Longlac, Terrace Bay,
> Schreiber) for 12+ years and no one was cool enough to have a server farm
> anywhere near where I lived. I wish someone had been that sophisticated.
>
> Frank (now in Mississauga)
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 16:54:09 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:54:09 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F6A8642.7060405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
 <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost>
 <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
 <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
 <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
 <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
 <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <3F6A8642.7060405@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030919125409.00eb2b94@idirect.com>

At 00:29 2003-09-19 -0400, you wrote:
>> Fair enough, I guess my biggest concern is that if it's handle
>> improperly that we would end up looking like childish anarchists
>
>Your sentiment is certainly understandable and no doubt the higher road, 
>but sometimes, just sometimes, people need a good kick in the balls in 
>order to smarten up. Talk is cheap.
>

Uh, Ladies and Gentlemen, may I have your attention for a
moment?

I think it may be helpful for us to distinguish different
target audiences.

There are some people whom we are unlikely to convert to our
position.  To deliver a message to them is quite likely to
make us feel better.  In general, the fact of one's
disapproval may or may not be new information to this kind
of audience.  The SCO community, in particular, has probably
already noticed that we are unhappy with their recent
actions.

There are some people who already agree with us.  Contrary
to the negative suggestions of the phrase "preaching to the
converted", this can be useful for motivation or as a
demonstration of sympathy.  This communication is easy
because the converted will see exaggeration as funny.

There are those who do not have a fixed opinion on the
subject.  We have the opportunity to bring some of these to
care enough about the subject that they will consider
arguments.  Vehemence in argument runs the risk of reminding
them how little the care about the outcome.  They are likely
to see exaggeration as simply inaccurate.  Subject to risks
like these, these people will be the ones to examine our
arguments most carefully.

As one of the converted, I wish I could give more positive
help with how to address the undecided.

Thank you, all, for your attention.

Terry.
Available for contract programming.



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From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 17:20:05 2003
From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:20:05 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <Frza/ks/KrTa089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <20030919075326.9BB5B4305-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>,
Christopher Browne <cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>I have been getting just _inundated_ with the stupid "Security
>messages from Microsoft" spam messages.  A couple thousand since noon.
>X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)
>
>Anyone else know of something Truly Evil going on?

   629 overnight.  Mostly varieties of "Microsoft Security
Patch" and postmaster reactions to same.  I usually expect a
couple of dozen.  My ISP marked up most of them as
"{virus?}", which couldn't stop vsoup from downloading them
first.  I really gotta shift to newer software.

        Regards.        Mel.
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 16:53:00 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 12:53:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152052310.4673-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F665848.9060705@rogers.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309152052310.4673-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <16368.199.64.0.252.1063990380.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


Teodor Iliescu said:
> An article, that relates to this:
> http://www.winnetmag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=5413
>
> Does anybody else have some input on this?

Yet another broken Microsoft implementation.  You'd think they'd know by
now that this kind of stupidity costs everyone time and money - including
them.
Must be nice have as great a marketing and legal department as they do. 
It's the only way I can think of that they get away with it.
Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers
  exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will
  instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more
  bizarre and inexplicable.

  There is another which states that this has already happened.

    -- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 ********************************************************************/



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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 17:40:58 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:40:58 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B3FAA.4000306@codemonkeys.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 19/09/2003 3:53, Christopher Browne wrote:

| I have been getting just _inundated_ with the stupid "Security
| messages from Microsoft" spam messages.  A couple thousand since noon.
| X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)
|
| Anyone else know of something Truly Evil going on?
|
| [Yes, the hour is atrocious.  Server outage, as well :-(.]

Yeah, tho not as many (7 thus far).  I also got a few fake "Returned mail"
messages that contain some .exe, so I forwarded 1 of each to MSFT and FBI.
- --
Emir.

"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election
~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery,
~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices."             -- Andrew Orlowski
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/az+quSy542G+Z7QRAi/nAJwLBpArbf03jVipICBHMiknMSW9+wCgiJ8a
t+iGu7pr4fl0KRDc2u1Vx+E=
=ZXFA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 17:43:48 2003
From: amarjan-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Andrej Marjan)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 13:43:48 -0400
Subject: questions about / request for help with GRUB
In-Reply-To: <3F6B3929.4030106-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6B3929.4030106@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <20030919174347.GA5529@gondolin.dyndns.org>

On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 01:13:13PM -0400, Richard Dice wrote:
> Hello, everyone...

> I was hoping someone out there would help me out with some questions 
> regarding grub.  I've been using lilo for years for my dual boot system 
> (Win98/Linux) but I've recently upgraded my Windows to WinXP and from 
> what I understand this mandates grub rather that lilo.  So, I'm looking 
> to move things over.

No it doesn't. Certainly with win2k you can have lilo clobber the MBR
and it'll boot. With the NT's since 4 at least, you can install lilo to
a primary partition (say hda2, where you have /boot mounted), mark that
partition as active, and your bios will pick it up and boot it without
touching the MBR.

So you would have something like this in lilo.conf:

boot=/dev/hda2

And then mark /dev/hda2 as active or bootable.

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 18:19:32 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:19:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: questions about / request for help with GRUB
In-Reply-To: <3F6B3929.4030106-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6B3929.4030106@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <24176.199.64.0.252.1063995572.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


Richard Dice said:
> Hello, everyone...

Good day, Richard.

> I was hoping someone out there would help me out with some questions
> regarding grub.  I've been using lilo for years for my dual boot system
>  (Win98/Linux) but I've recently upgraded my Windows to WinXP and from
> what I understand this mandates grub rather that lilo.  So, I'm looking
>  to move things over.

I'm using XP with Lilo, no problem.  Actually, I started with Grub, ran
into issues (see previous thread for configs and details), then switched
to lilo.
> I'd like to experiment by first creating a grub floppy -- I figure best
>  to make sure things work there first before I target the MBR of my
> hard  drive.  Once that works then I'll target the MBR.

A grub floppy is a very useful thing to have around, whether or not you
use grub as your normal bootloader.  The grub shell isn't too tricky to
figure out.  All you have to remember is the order of the drives and
partitions.
> I wish there were some "grub recipes" out there that I could copy off
> of;  as it stands, the grub documentation is kind of abstract and seems
>  to assume deep knowledge of booting philosophy, as well as the grub
> way  of doing things.

Have a look at the gentoo docs.  I found this page useful:
<http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml#doc_chap23>

> So, first question:  is there any way to avoid the "grub shell"?  I'd
> like to just specify a file that has all the info in it necessary and
> just go from there.  If this can be done, what should the path&name of
> the file be?  What command line should I invoke grub with to do the
> job?

I don't have the commands on me, but they should be in the gentoo docs. 
Essentially, you write your config file, start grub, tell it where to go,
then tell it to install there.  Something along the lines of:
# grub
grub> root (hd0,1)
grub> setup (hd0)
grub> quit
#

Should do the trick.  Notice that (hd0,1) is your root linux partition
(should translate to /dev/hda2), and (hd0) is the MBR.
> If this is possible, then the first task is making a grub conf file
> that  targets a floppy disk and has boot options for WinXP (on
> /dev/hda1) and  Linux (with a /root partition on /dev/hda2; no seperate
> /boot partition).

Why target a floppy?  Setup a floppy boot disk as a backup, but don't you
want to boot off the harddrive?  Making an emergency disk is as easy as:
# cd /usr/share/grub/i386-pc/
# cat stage1 stage2 > /dev/fd0


Good luck!

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers
  exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will
  instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more
  bizarre and inexplicable.

  There is another which states that this has already happened.

    -- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 ********************************************************************/



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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 18:21:41 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:21:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919092715.53e52658.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
        <200309190607.08963.fraser@wehave.net>
        <20030919122406.1C8FE42FA@cbbrowne.com>
        <20030919125915.GA25544%awh@awh.org>
        <20030919092715.53e52658.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <39955.199.64.0.252.1063995701.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


JoeHill said:
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 08:59:15 -0400
> Drew Hamilton <awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>>
>> Wow, that's pretty snobbish and elitist.  No wonder nobody likes
>> computer geeks.
>
> and the "No sense of Humour Award" goes to... ;-)

It's funny 'cause it's true!  Both of them!

Thanks for the quotes, you've officially made my wall :)

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers
  exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will
  instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more
  bizarre and inexplicable.

  There is another which states that this has already happened.

    -- Douglas Adams, The Restaurant at the End of the Universe
 ********************************************************************/



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From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 19:16:31 2003
From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:16:31 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: REQUESTING INTERRUPT ON 5
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0309191358560.22046-100000@pixelated>

m4m3:/# cat motd

#!/bin/party
IRQ5 ===== WEDNESDAY SEPTEMBER 24 2003
^^^^FUNHAUS 526 QUEEN ST W[formerly zen lounge]

featuring sound by

    \0_   ghettocyb.org ~ cyborg_data_jockey
    /     radius        ~ original sines
  _/\     cerebral_itch ~ electro space glitch
 '  /     phink         ~ electro
   '

visuals by Dr. Rx       \0_
                     ,/\/
works by               /
     jim munroe        \
        <video/toronto> '
     mark cooley
        <video/us>
     skot deeming
        <video/london on>
     paul thayer
        <net.art/iceland> |more

        o 802.11b wireless inter/intranet
        o MAME station
        o 8bit gamez
        o FLOPPY SWAP
           |___ http://asciipr0n.com/archive/0015/
        o line printer pr0n
        o live stream
           |___ http://compuhistory.org:8000/listen.pls

 # pls c http://asciipr0n.com/irq/

 # [[4 nerds of all disciplines]]
 # BCNU!

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From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 19:49:39 2003
From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:49:39 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <006201c37ed1$3f435db0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <006201c37ed1$3f435db0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>

Was funny - I lived 14 hours drive from Toronto (in good weather). Now I
live in Mississauga and work with people who think that Barrie is in
Northern Ontario.

Frank (in Mississauga) (who now works in the stockroom of a store because he
can't find a job in IT)

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 20:17:44 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:17:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919125915.GA25544%awh-z32R3RYGf1M@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com> <200309190607.08963.fraser@wehave.net>
 <20030919122406.1C8FE42FA@cbbrowne.com> <20030919125915.GA25544%awh@awh.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309191616300.12816@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Drew Hamilton wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 08:24:05AM -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > "Huh?  Windows  was designed to keep  the idiots away from  Unix so we
> > could hack in peace.  Let's not break that." -- Tom Christiansen
>
> Wow, that's pretty snobbish and elitist.  No wonder nobody likes
> computer geeks.

Computer geeks like computer geeks.  Because we're superior, that's the
only thing that counts.






NOTE: I am joking :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 20:21:38 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:21:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <20030919072749.44c9143a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1063631965.1502.0.camel@localhost> <3F663CF7.3080509@rogers.com>
 <1063665311.30028.25.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030915214945.33af3be7.rufmetal@eol.ca>
 <26053.216.138.194.32.1063730597.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <1063733044.12903.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
 <10134.216.138.194.32.1063928273.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <1063940984.12903.36.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <20030919043808.GA10544@anarchy.ca>
 <3F6A88A4.2070804@rogers.com> <20030919072749.44c9143a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309191620580.12816@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 00:40:04 -0400
> Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > eliminates government and substitues interpersonal
> > cooperation instead.
>
> kinda sounds like OSS, no? :-)

Usenet is quite possibly the world's most successful implementation of
Anarchy as a style of government.  Just look at the voting procedures.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 20:34:25 2003
From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:34:25 -0400
Subject: questions about / request for help with GRUB
In-Reply-To: <3F6B3929.4030106-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6B3929.4030106@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309191632210.1609402-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>



On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Richard Dice wrote:

> Hello, everyone...
>
> I was hoping someone out there would help me out with some questions
> regarding grub.  I've been using lilo for years for my dual boot system
> (Win98/Linux) but I've recently upgraded my Windows to WinXP and from
> what I understand this mandates grub rather that lilo.  So, I'm looking
> to move things over.
>
> I'd like to experiment by first creating a grub floppy -- I figure best
> to make sure things work there first before I target the MBR of my hard
> drive.  Once that works then I'll target the MBR.
>
> I wish there were some "grub recipes" out there that I could copy off
> of;  as it stands, the grub documentation is kind of abstract and seems
> to assume deep knowledge of booting philosophy, as well as the grub way
> of doing things.

I remember Libranet (www.libranet.com or .ca?) has some relatively simple
(otherwize I'd be lost) info. on Grub on their web page - like a quick
recipe for settin up dual boot.


>
> So, first question:  is there any way to avoid the "grub shell"?  I'd
> like to just specify a file that has all the info in it necessary and
> just go from there.  If this can be done, what should the path&name of
> the file be?  What command line should I invoke grub with to do the job?
>
> If this is possible, then the first task is making a grub conf file that
> targets a floppy disk and has boot options for WinXP (on /dev/hda1) and
> Linux (with a /root partition on /dev/hda2; no seperate /boot partition).
>
> Second, I want to do the same, but with a grub conf file that targets
> the MBR of /dev/hda.
>
> In case it helps, I run Debian GNU/Linux 3.0.
>
> Thanks very much for your help...
>
> Cheers,
> Richard
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

------------
Alex Maynard
Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
University of Toronto
150 St. George St., N304
Toronto ON M5S 3G7
Canada
e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org
tel: (416) 978-4358


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 21:08:27 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:08:27 -0400
Subject: RAID 1 mirroring of an existing RH9 server...
Message-ID: <000501c37ef2$2dae2a00$0200a8c0@viper>


Has anyone successfully (or unsuccessfully) performed this procedure?













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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 21:17:02 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:17:02 -0400
Subject: RAID 1 mirroring of an existing RH9 server...
In-Reply-To: <000501c37ef2$2dae2a00$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <000501c37ef2$2dae2a00$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030919171532.01f08ae0@mail.interlog.com>

At 05:08 PM 09/19/2003 -0400, teddymills wrote:
>Has anyone successfully (or unsuccessfully) performed this procedure?

I have a machine which is running RAID 1 successfully.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 21:58:19 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:58:19 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B7BFB.5080209@rogers.com>

Christopher Browne wrote:
> I have been getting just _inundated_ with the stupid "Security
> messages from Microsoft" spam messages.  A couple thousand since noon.
> X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)
> 
> Anyone else know of something Truly Evil going on?
> 
> [Yes, the hour is atrocious.  Server outage, as well :-(.] 

I would imagine that a lot of people are running the MS "security 
patch", which installs a worm on their system.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 22:08:50 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:08:50 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHMEBFCOAA.erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHMEBFCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B7E72.8020207@rogers.com>

Brampton?  ;-)

Erebus wrote:
> What I'm curious about is what small Northern Ontario town has a server farm
> in it. I lived in small Northern Ontario towns (Longlac, Terrace Bay,
> Schreiber) for 12+ years and no one was cool enough to have a server farm
> anywhere near where I lived. I wish someone had been that sophisticated.
> 
> Frank (now in Mississauga)
> 
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 22:07:37 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:07:37 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <3F6B7BFB.5080209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com>
	<3F6B7BFB.5080209@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030919180737.1f5816a3.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:58:19 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I would imagine that a lot of people are running the MS "security 
> patch", which installs a worm on their system.

Jeez, if people lose trust in MS security patches, that could lead to
trouble!

<BIG HUGE SHIT-EATING GRIN>

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life exists for no known purpose.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 22:25:34 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:25:34 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com>

Erebus wrote:
> Was funny - I lived 14 hours drive from Toronto (in good weather). Now I
> live in Mississauga and work with people who think that Barrie is in
> Northern Ontario.

Would that be somewhere around Geraldton or Long Lac?  I used to work in 
many towns up north, as far as Armstrong.  It used to take me about 14 
hours to drive from Geralton to Oakville. ~800 miles.  I'd leave 
Geraldton around 6  or 6:30 AM and stop for gas & lunch at Iroquois 
Falls and dinner at North Bay, getting to Oakville around 8 or 9.  I 
could make that trip on 2 fllls of the 13 gallon tank in my '72 Hornet

BTW, back in those days, there was  one traffic light, when passing 
through Kapuskasing.  If it was green when I went through, my wheels 
didn't stop rolling from Geralton, until Iroquois Falls.

It also amazes me when people refer to Barrie or Orillia as "Northern 
Ontario".

BTW, Armstrong is up past the north west corner of Lake Nipigon, about 
250 Km north of Thunder Bay.  It's way up past Steeles!  ;-)


> 
> Frank (in Mississauga) (who now works in the stockroom of a store because he
> can't find a job in IT)

I know the feeling, working at a job well below what I'm capable of, 
because of lack of suitable positions in the communications and IT 
industries.

> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 18:34:47 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 14:34:47 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <3F6B825E.3060506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 18:25:34 -0400
References: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com> <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030919183447.GC1789@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

Kirkland Lake.
Represent!
Austin

--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
             MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 22:40:33 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:40:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <20030919180737.1f5816a3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919180737.1f5816a3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030919181737.6127A-100000@spsystems.net>

A quick hack for getting this mess under control, if you are running a
modern sendmail but are not currently running fancier filters...

The line

define(`confMAX_MESSAGE_SIZE', `140000')dnl

in the m4 version of your sendmail configuration will produce the line

O MaxMessageSize=140000

in your sendmail.cf, and that blocks essentially all this crap.  (There is
still a sprinkling of small error messages etc., but that's easier to cope
with than a steady stream of 150KB worms.)  The smallest of the infected
messages seems to be about 145000 bytes.

Sendmail declares this limit as part of connection startup, and a fair
number of far-end mailers seem to pick up on that and just give up on
sending the thing at all.  If the far end does try, sendmail will notice
that the message is too big and refuse to accept it. 

Of course, if you regularly mail big files around, this will block that
legitimate traffic too.  You pays your money and you takes your choice.  I
was getting a megabyte of worms every few minutes -- not a problem for my
connection, but a serious disk-space issue (not to mention the way certain
mail interfaces misbehave on enormous mailboxes) -- and I don't get big
files in mail very often, so I can live with some (I hope) temporary
limitations in return for getting my mailbox back. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org



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From erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 23:27:08 2003
From: erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Erebus)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:27:08 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <3F6B825E.3060506-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHOEBLCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>

Lived in Terrace Bay, then Longlac, then Terrace Bay again, then Schreiber
(then Smithers BC, then Calgary, now Mississauga

Frank in Mississauga

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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 23:28:16 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:28:16 -0400
Subject: questions about / request for help with GRUB
In-Reply-To: <3F6B3929.4030106-e+AXbWqSrlAAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6B3929.4030106@pobox.com>
Message-ID: <3F6B9110.9040204@truxtar.com>

Hi Richard,

I have used Redhat 9/GNU and Windows XP as a duel-boot system under both 
LILO and Grub, and am currently using Grub.

I personally like Grub because
a) You don't have to re-run it when you change the menu entries, which 
solved WinXP problem (see below)
b) It looks alot better and has a nice shell to use when something goes 
wrong.

Richard Dice wrote:
> Hello, everyone...
> 
> I was hoping someone out there would help me out with some questions 
> regarding grub.  I've been using lilo for years for my dual boot system 
> (Win98/Linux) but I've recently upgraded my Windows to WinXP and from 
> what I understand this mandates grub rather that lilo.  So, I'm looking 
> to move things over.

I wouldn't say 'mandates', but everytime I re-ran /sbin/lilo on the MBR 
windows would give me crap about corrupted files and wouldn't start 
unless I start it through Safe Mode.  Grub fixed that, but I would think 
that the solution suggested by Andrej to install LILO onto the /boot or 
root partition rather than the MBR should work too, as long as the 
cylinder/2GB boundaries are not exeeded (I noticed that it works bad 
even with new LBA motherboards).

> 
> I'd like to experiment by first creating a grub floppy -- I figure best 
> to make sure things work there first before I target the MBR of my hard 
> drive.  Once that works then I'll target the MBR.
> 

I am not sure about a Grub Floppy.

> So, first question:  is there any way to avoid the "grub shell"?  I'd 
> like to just specify a file that has all the info in it necessary and 
> just go from there.  If this can be done, what should the path&name of 
> the file be?  What command line should I invoke grub with to do the job?
> 

I don't know about Debian, but Redhat has a nice /sbin/grub-install 
script that configures Grub automatically, and should work in most 
circumstances.  It worked for me and detected all the partitions 
perfectly.  Even got my custom kernel in the list.

Hope I helped.

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>
GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 00:04:00 2003
From: linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org (ln @post.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:04:00 -0500
Subject: SCO.com and Caldera.com dead?
Message-ID: <20030920000400.34342.qmail@mail.com>

FYI - from the Seneca Linux club.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Chairman of the Board
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400
From: "John Selmys" <John.Selmys-U9NDqb625Q+nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
To: linuxclub-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org, isa <isa at titanic.senecac.on.ca>


Greetings Linux Fans,

    It is with great pleasure that I announce an open talk by Robert 
Young, Chairman of RedHat, will take place here at Seneca on Wednesday, 
Oct 8, 2003. This coup was arranged by Praveen Mitera, the coordinator 
of our post-diploma database program. My understanding is that the 
speech will take place in the upper kelidoscope room (S2168) in the SEQ 
building starting at 3pm. Everyone is welcome. Tell your friends. Bring 
your parents!

John

ps: If there are Questions/Answers at the end then come prepared with 
your questions.
===============================================================


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 00:04:24 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:04:24 -0400
Subject: RAID 1 mirroring of an existing RH9 server...
In-Reply-To: <000501c37ef2$2dae2a00$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <000501c37ef2$2dae2a00$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <200309192004.25022.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 19 September 2003 17:08, teddymills wrote:

> Has anyone successfully (or unsuccessfully) performed this procedure?

I've successfully converted non-raid systems to raid1, both Debian and Redhat 
6.2-7.3 ... don't think I've converted any rh9 machines.  Are you running 
into difficulty with the conversion?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 00:11:18 2003
From: linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org (ln @post.com)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:11:18 -0500
Subject: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
Message-ID: <20030920001118.42287.qmail@mail.com>


FYI - from the Seneca Linux club.



Re: -------- Original Message --------
Re: Subject: Chairman of the Board
Re: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400
Re: From: "John Selmys" <John.Selmys-U9NDqb625Q+nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
Re: To: linuxclub-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org, isa <isa at titanic.senecac.on.ca>

Re: Greetings Linux Fans,

Re:     It is with great pleasure that I announce an open talk by Robert 
Re: Young, Chairman of RedHat, will take place here at Seneca on Wednesday, 
Re: Oct 8, 2003. This coup was arranged by Praveen Mitera, the coordinator 
Re: of our post-diploma database program. My understanding is that the 
Re: speech will take place in the upper kelidoscope room (S2168) in the SEQ 
Re: building starting at 3pm. Everyone is welcome. Tell your friends. Bring 
Re: your parents!

Re: John
Re: ps: If there are Questions/Answers at the end then come prepared with 
Re: your questions.
 ===============================================================



-- 
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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 00:10:08 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:10:08 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <20030919183447.GC1789@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.c
 a>
References: <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com>
 <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>
 <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com> <20030919183447.GC1789@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.c
 a>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com>

At 14:34 2003-09-19 -0400, Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Kirkland Lake.
> Represent!
> Austin
>
> --
>                         Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
>              Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
>            Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>              MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
>                      homepage: www.groundstate.ca

Some of my earliest memories date from Matheson.  Some of
your pictures really take me back.

At the risk of revealing my deep ignorance, I just have to
ask: Do you really mean both negatives in "inhibitors of
anti-viral infections"?

Terry.
Available for contract programming.



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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 23:42:35 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 19:42:35 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <006201c37ed1$3f435db0$0200a8c0@viper> <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030919194235.00ea20ec@idirect.com>

At 15:49 2003-09-19 -0400, "Erebus" <erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>Was funny - I lived 14 hours drive from Toronto (in good weather). Now I
>live in Mississauga and work with people who think that Barrie is in
>Northern Ontario.

Ah, then you will like this one.

The last time I visited the CN tower, they had some photos
mounted on the walls.  One of them was a picture of a float
plane at a dock, fishing paraphenalia on the dock, trees in
the background, and so forth.  All in all, a very pleasant
picture indeed.  What still makes me laugh, years later, is
the caption: "Canada's far north ... near Sudbury, Ontario."

Terry.

Still smirking.  And still, sorry to say,
Available for contract programming.


>
>Frank (in Mississauga) (who now works in the stockroom of a store because he
>can't find a job in IT)


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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 20:44:37 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:44:37 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 20:10:08 -0400
References: <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com> <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com> <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com> <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <20030919204437.GA5178@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>


On 09/19/2003 08:10:08 PM, Terrence Enger wrote:
> At the risk of revealing my deep ignorance, I just have to
> ask: Do you really mean both negatives in "inhibitors of
> anti-viral infections"?

Wow.  I never noticed that before.
Many thanks,
Austin

--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
             MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 00:54:19 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 20:54:19 -0400
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309180052590.27523-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030917022229.GA3498@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309180052590.27523-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20030920005419.GA6260@m450>

On Thu, Sep 18, 2003 at 01:38:59AM -0400, Max Blanco wrote

> If I figure correctly, there are 256^4 IPv4 addresses.  
> There are 4.3 billion publically routable addresses.  
> (China is a subnet:  Add one billion.  Africa? add another billion.
> India? add one more.  Axis of EvilTM? add 100 million.)
> 
> Below are listed 6/256 addresses, or 2.34%.
> Now, if we got another 18 on this list, then we'd be cooking.

  There are still a whole slew of unassigned blocks.  And some of the
assigned blocks have been forgotten about when their owners go broke.
So spammers jump in and hijack those "bogon" blocks.  I have a difficult
time believing the "scarcity stories".  And at work, there are sevral
hundred *DESKTOPS* with publicly routable IP addresses.  Why?  What's
wrong with RFC1918 addresses for desktop users?

> Where did you get it?

  Straight from the horse's mouth at...
http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 01:06:28 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:06:28 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309190545090.13797-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309190545090.13797@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030920010628.GB6260@m450>

On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 05:46:23AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote
> On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Christopher Browne wrote:
> 
> > I have been getting just _inundated_ with the stupid "Security
> > messages from Microsoft" spam messages.  A couple thousand since noon.
> > X-Mailer: MH-E 7.3; nmh 1.1-RC1; XEmacs 21.4 (patch 13)
> 
>      I've been getting an increasing number of them for a couple of
>      week; it hit monstrous proportions today, inbcluding filling up
>      my mailbox at Rogers when there was a service interruption.

  This has been the first time I've ever had a 10 megabyte inbox
overflow.  That's my clss.net inbox which my MX record points to.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 01:18:33 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:18:33 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <20030919204437.GA5178@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.c
 a>
References: <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com>
 <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com>
 <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com>
 <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com>
 <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com> <20030919204437.GA5178@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.c
 a>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030919211833.0074c370@idirect.com>

At 16:44 2003-09-19 -0400, you wrote:
>
>On 09/19/2003 08:10:08 PM, Terrence Enger wrote:
>> At the risk of revealing my deep ignorance, I just have to
>> ask: Do you really mean both negatives in "inhibitors of
>> anti-viral infections"?
>
>Wow.  I never noticed that before.
>Many thanks,
>Austin

That's a relief!  Somewhat encouraged, I'll bother you again
...

Fungus and bacterial infections can be mutually
antagonistic.  Is there such a thing as an anti-viral
infection?  Or is that the negative you didn't really mean?

Terry.



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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 21:41:38 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:41:38 -0400
Subject: OT: fungi and bacteria, WAS: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030919211833.0074c370-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 21:18:33 -0400
References: <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com> <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com> <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com> <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com> <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com> <3.0.3.32.20030919211833.0074c370@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <20030919214138.GA5311@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/19/2003 09:18:33 PM, Terrence Enger wrote:
> Fungus and bacterial infections can be mutually
> antagonistic.  Is there such a thing as an anti-viral
> infection?  Or is that the negative you didn't really mean?

Huh?  I fixed the error... I work with inhibitors of 'viral' infections.

But since you asked, viruses are neither fungi nor bacteria.  And yes, fungi  
and bacteria are very good at fighting each other for resources.   That's why  
when one makes wine, one need not worry about it getting infected by bateria  
once the yeast is alive, but the yeast may not bloom if the batch is infected  
with bacteria.

Back to the point, I'm not sure if there are viruses which infect fungi or  
bacteria, but since neither have a proper immune system, I doubt if they can  
actually fight the viral infection.  Their best defense mechanism is likely  
apoptosis, a.k.a. suicide, to prevent the virus from spreading.  So no, I  
don't think fungi or bacteria could be used to fight against viruses.

On the other hand, it is conceivable that one could engineer a virus to  
specifically target fungi or bacteria, and use it as a theraputic antifungal  
or antibacterial agent...

Why am I talking about this again?

Austin
--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
             MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 21:49:35 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 17:49:35 -0400
Subject: o.s. office
Message-ID: <20030919214935.GC5311@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

I was walking through the new Technology Enhanced Learning Building today at  
work (YorkU/Seneca), and saw them installing this crazy fancy new office  
called the o.s. office.  It's got huge painted glass windows with open source  
slogans painted all over it, mentioning Linux as possibly the largest  
worldwide community effort ever or something, and the value of open source  
software, etc. etc.  It looks very cool.

I was almost late to teach a class and I didn't have my camera, but I'll be  
sure to take some pics on Monday and post a link.

This is very surprising, becuase in the two years I've worked there, my  
exclusive use of linux on my three workstations has been unsupported, mocked,  
and disregarded.  Also, my hundreds of hours of work on distributing  
scientific software for linux got zero support from the university.

Maybe I can finally convince them to set up a Mandrake mirror.

Austin
--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
             MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 02:09:30 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 21:09:30 -0500
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The most	recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: <1063776662.12903.12.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
 	 <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
 	 <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>
 	 <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 	 <20030916172945.3672878D05@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
 	 <20030916205715.6333F4488@cbbrowne.com> <1063776662.12903.12.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20030920020930.13504773AC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

On 17 Sep 2003 01:31:03 -0400, "Madison Kelly" <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> said:
> If I can toot my own horn for a moment; tracking best-of-breed hardware
> is what I do for a living. I am not the cheapest and I will admit that
> right up front but I am really pretty good at picking out uber-reliable
> components and verifying linux-compatibility. I am working on
> integrating what I know into a website which, once it is up, will
> hopefully be something you guys and gals could reference even if you buy
> it somewhere else. (I am not a retail store so I wouldn't mind helping
> out by e-mail even if you have plans to grab stuff elsewhere - I aim
> mostly at hardware and machines for companies). 

righteous.

I would use this, definitely.  

> Seeing how I can't program to save my life it might be a way I could
> give back to the community rather than normally leaching info like I
> normally do ;).
> Madison

> On Tue, 2003-09-16 at 16:57, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > > Which boards/companies are these?  Sounds like these boards/companies are
> > > linux-friendly and should be remembered when we're asked to give hardware
> > > purchase recommondations.
> > > 
> > > I'm interested in developing a short list of recommendable systems/parts
> > > for various usage types.
> > 
> > The unfortunate problem with this is that there is _heavy_ churn of
> > these products.  The motherboard that you really liked last month is
> > liable to get replaced by a newer model in 3 months thereby making the
> > information obsolete.
> > 
> > The approach that would be more likely to be worthwhile would be to go
> > "global" on building a compatibility database, so that MANY people could
> > be involved in figuring out which parts work well, and then have a
> > "regional availability" table that allows people in different regions
> > create 'views' indicating what hardware is available locally.
> > Regrettably, that latter part goes stale quickly.
> > --
> > If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
> > http://cbbrowne.com/info/oses.html
> > The difference between a  child and a hacker  is the amount he  flames
> > about his toys.  -- Ed Schwalenberg
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
--
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 19 20:15:15 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 22:15:15 +0200
Subject: o.s. office
In-Reply-To: <20030919214935.GC5311-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030919214935.GC5311@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F6B63D3.5050902@sympatico.ca>

Austin wrote:

> I was walking through the new Technology Enhanced Learning Building 
> today at  work (YorkU/Seneca), and saw them installing this crazy 
> fancy new office  called the o.s. office.  It's got huge painted glass 
> windows with open source  slogans painted all over it, mentioning 
> Linux as possibly the largest  worldwide community effort ever or 
> something, and the value of open source  software, etc. etc.  It looks 
> very cool.
>
> I was almost late to teach a class and I didn't have my camera, but 
> I'll be  sure to take some pics on Monday and post a link.
>
> This is very surprising, becuase in the two years I've worked there, 
> my  exclusive use of linux on my three workstations has been 
> unsupported, mocked,  and disregarded.  Also, my hundreds of hours of 
> work on distributing  scientific software for linux got zero support 
> from the university.
>
> Maybe I can finally convince them to set up a Mandrake mirror.
>
> Austin
> -- 
>                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
>             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
>           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>             MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
>                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
verrry interesting!
Last spring, I taught a cinematography course at Humber, and my efforts 
to introduce linux (and windoze) open source to students and faculty was 
wildly unsuccessful. A handful of students had heard of linux. They were 
incredulus when I described it as featuring a rich GUI, not just CLI. A 
few more found the concept of free (non-pirated) community developed 
software interesting. Among staff members, only the guy in charge of the 
network had heard of linux, but he had never tried it.

David Patrick

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 03:10:55 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:10:55 -0400
Subject: OT: fungi and bacteria, WAS: Wireless Service for a small
 town
In-Reply-To: <20030919214138.GA5311-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com> <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com> <BHEDLDDEBIDIDBCADAOHAEBJCOAA.erebus@rogers.com> <3F6B825E.3060506@rogers.com> <3.0.3.32.20030919201008.00ea55b8@idirect.com> <3.0.3.32.20030919211833.0074c370@idirect.com> <20030919214138.GA5311@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F6BC53F.1000203@rogers.com>

> Back to the point, I'm not sure if there are viruses which infect fungi 
> or  bacteria

Yep... 'bacteriophages': http://www.cellsalive.com/phage.htm

I remember coming upon this very subject when I was kid as I was 
fascinated with biology and medicine. There was a certain satisfaction 
in knowing that the things that infected and made me sick also suffered 
from infections and sickness :)

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 03:45:25 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 23:45:25 -0400
Subject: OT, vehicular notebook holder
Message-ID: <3F6BCD55.3090309@rogers.com>

I've STFW but no luck... I'm looking for something that is designed or 
easily perverted into being used as a holder for a notebook computer in 
a car.

I've been doing a bit of wardriving lately and it's proved a pain 
keeping the notebook secured. It doesn't need to be in front of me or in 
a convenient line of sight; I'm running Kismet and just letting it log 
away happily. Currently I just have it on the passenger seat with the 
screen facing me.

I've taken a peek through the windows of several cop cars lately (much 
better than the inside views I'd get as a mischievous kid) and it seems 
they're using notebooks now... any idea what they're using as a holder?

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 05:45:17 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 01:45:17 -0400
Subject: RAID 1 mirroring of an existing RH9 server...
In-Reply-To: <000501c37ef2$2dae2a00$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <000501c37ef2$2dae2a00$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <1064036716.3818.0.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

I've build RAID1 and RAID5 arrays out of IDE disk/partitions a few times
with luck, how can I help?

Madison

On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 17:08, teddymills wrote:
> Has anyone successfully (or unsuccessfully) performed this procedure?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 05:47:35 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 20 Sep 2003 01:47:35 -0400
Subject: Recommended Hardware project propoal [was The
	most	recent meeting]
In-Reply-To: <20030920020930.13504773AC-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	 <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
	 <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.53.0309052344210.1272@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	 <20030916172945.3672878D05@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
	 <20030916205715.6333F4488@cbbrowne.com>
	 <1063776662.12903.12.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <20030920020930.13504773AC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1064036855.3818.2.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 22:09, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> On 17 Sep 2003 01:31:03 -0400, "Madison Kelly" <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> said:
> > If I can toot my own horn for a moment; tracking best-of-breed hardware
> > is what I do for a living. I am not the cheapest and I will admit that
> > right up front but I am really pretty good at picking out uber-reliable
> > components and verifying linux-compatibility. I am working on
> > integrating what I know into a website which, once it is up, will
> > hopefully be something you guys and gals could reference even if you buy
> > it somewhere else. (I am not a retail store so I wouldn't mind helping
> > out by e-mail even if you have plans to grab stuff elsewhere - I aim
> > mostly at hardware and machines for companies). 
> 
> righteous.
> 
> I would use this, definitely.  

Okay, glad to help. Until the site is up feel free to e-mail me with any
questions and I will let you know what I think.

:)

Madison

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 04:20:44 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 00:20:44 -0400
Subject: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <20030920001118.42287.qmail-O5WfVfzUwx8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920001118.42287.qmail@mail.com>
Message-ID: <1064118043.7813.10.camel@yoda>

Any idea what the topic of Bob's talk will be?

Kareem

On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 20:11, ln @post.com wrote:
> FYI - from the Seneca Linux club.
> 
> 
> 
> Re: -------- Original Message --------
> Re: Subject: Chairman of the Board
> Re: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400
> Re: From: "John Selmys" <John.Selmys-U9NDqb625Q+nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
> Re: To: linuxclub-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org, isa <isa at titanic.senecac.on.ca>
> 
> Re: Greetings Linux Fans,
> 
> Re:     It is with great pleasure that I announce an open talk by Robert 
> Re: Young, Chairman of RedHat, will take place here at Seneca on Wednesday, 
> Re: Oct 8, 2003. This coup was arranged by Praveen Mitera, the coordinator 
> Re: of our post-diploma database program. My understanding is that the 
> Re: speech will take place in the upper kelidoscope room (S2168) in the SEQ 
> Re: building starting at 3pm. Everyone is welcome. Tell your friends. Bring 
> Re: your parents!
> 
> Re: John
> Re: ps: If there are Questions/Answers at the end then come prepared with 
> Re: your questions.
>  ===============================================================
> 
> 
/*********************************************************************
kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org - Kareem Shehata - 416-676-6611
-------------------------------------------------------------------- The
test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposed
ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain the ability to
function. -- F. Scott Fitzgerald (1896 - 1940)
********************************************************************/

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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 18:04:04 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:04:04 -0400
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030920140404.00f8e2d4@idirect.com>

Greetings, all.

I am running Slackware 9.0, using bash for command entry.

For funny reasons, I would to have a user id which is named 
with all capital letters.  However makes my screen sessions 
display in all capital letters.  Is there a way to avoid this 
effect on the screen?

Thank you for your consideration.

Terry.
Available for contract programming.


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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 18:10:01 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:10:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030920140404.00f8e2d4-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20030920140404.00f8e2d4@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920140353.21041A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Terrence Enger wrote:
> For funny reasons, I would to have a user id which is named 
> with all capital letters.  However makes my screen sessions 
> display in all capital letters.  Is there a way to avoid this 
> effect on the screen?

This is a feature, albeit an extremely old one.  If you log in with an
all-caps login name, the login program concludes that you must be using an
uppercase-only keyboard/terminal/whatever, and adjusts system settings
accordingly. 

Try the command "stty -lcase", after logging in.  I don't recall any
automatic way to turn this behavior off.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 18:18:20 2003
From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:18:20 -0400
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030920140404.00f8e2d4-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20030920140404.00f8e2d4@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <20030920181820.GC19999@paip.net>

On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 02:04:04PM -0400, Terrence Enger wrote:
> Greetings, all.
> 
> I am running Slackware 9.0, using bash for command entry.
> 
> For funny reasons, I would to have a user id which is named 
> with all capital letters.  However makes my screen sessions 
> display in all capital letters.  Is there a way to avoid this 
> effect on the screen?

Wow.  That's an old holdover from the days where some people had
terminals that could only do capitals.  The login program checks if the
username entered is in all-caps, and if so, sets your terminal settings
to be all caps.

You can clear it by doing "stty -olcuc".  Putting that in the user's
.bash_profile ought to work, I think.

   - Ian
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From hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 18:30:29 2003
From: hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 14:30:29 -0400
Subject: IBM Thinkpad 380D for sale
Message-ID: <3F6C9CC5.5030404@rogers.com>

Thinkpad 380D (2635-3AJ)

Pentium 150MHz
80MB RAM (16+64)
2Gg HD
10mbps NIC (PCMCIA)
56K modem (PCMCIA)
CD-ROM & FDD
AC Adapter
original battery (weak)
Japanese keyboard (both Roman letters and Japanese kana)
Currently running Mandrake 9.1 with ICEWM

$75

Jay
416-515-1909
hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org

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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 19:00:27 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles fourchet)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 12:00:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
Message-ID: <20030920120028.9703.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>

Hi,

I am struggling with my ADSL connection for a couple a
weeks now and I have reach the limit of my imagination.
 So I would need your help.

I had Rogers before and switched to an ADSL provider
(EOL).  I red a bunch of docs and HOWTOs:  bottom line,
as per what I red, it should be straightforward.  Based
on that, I just installed the PPPoE package (Roaring
Penguin) as well as the PPPoEconf one (I am using
Debian Woody and PPPoEconf is the equivalent of
ADSL-Setup for the other distros).  I plug the ADSL
modem and start PPPoEconf: pppoe, Timeout Waiting for
PADO packets.  Well.  I call my provider which confirms
that everything is okay for them (I even brought the
modem them to be tested.  Of course, it was fine). 
They open a ticket with Bell, which says that
everything is okay from their network to my house. 
Perfect.  So the problem is in my house.  I ask Bell to
come and, everything is okay in the house as well.

Hum.  So the problem is with the kernel (so far, I was
using the standard 2.8.18 kernel provided with Woody). 
I download the version 2.4.22, I use a recent machine
(my firewall is an old 486 with NE2000 NIC) to be sure
that the hardware is okay and I ensure that I select in
the kernel all the PPP options as a module.  Once
again, timeout, no PADO packets.  From there, I tried
to load manually the module ppp_synctty but it did not
change anything.

As it seems that the configuration of ADSL is simple,
the documentation missed an important information: it
is simple as long as the system is correctly
configured.  Obviously, mine is not and I have not
found any documentation which explains what to do.

Any idea?

Thanks in advance,

Gilles
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 20:05:37 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:05:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: I'm puzzled by this perl behaviour
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309201557460.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

[Disclaimer: I don't actually know perl.]

I don't understand why the regular expression match in the following
perl script fails if and only if the environment is utf8.

If the RE element can be matched without a "+" suffix, surely it can
match with a "+" suffix.  Matching exactly once should be a stronger
condition than matching at least once.

My guess is that there is some Perl feature that I don't know about
that explains this behaviour.

Help!

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

PS: you can use en_CA in place of en_US.  I wrote en_US in the hope
that this is a more debugged setting.

================ whacky.pl ================
#!/usr/bin/perl

# whacky.pl: demonstrate oddity in Red Hat Linux 9.0's Perl (5.8.0)

# works:	echo "package" | LANG=en_US.utf8 ./whacky.pl
# fails:	echo "package" | LANG=en_US ./whacky.pl


use Data::Dumper;

print $ENV{"LANG"}, "\n";
while (<>) {
#	print Dumper($_);
	chop;
#	$_ = "package=defaults";
	print Dumper($_);
#happy	if( /^\s*([^\s=+])/ ){
#sad
	if( /^\s*([^\s=+]+)/ ){
		die "$1 happy";
	}
	else {
		warn "unknown input in \"$ARGV\" line $. of: $_\n";
		die "sad";
	}
}
================ end ================

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 20:07:05 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:07:05 -0400
Subject: OT, vehicular notebook holder
In-Reply-To: <3F6BCD55.3090309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6BCD55.3090309@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F6CB369.8050009@rogers.com>

Byron Sonne wrote:
> I've STFW but no luck... I'm looking for something that is designed or 
> easily perverted into being used as a holder for a notebook computer in 
> a car.
> 
> I've been doing a bit of wardriving lately and it's proved a pain 
> keeping the notebook secured. It doesn't need to be in front of me or in 
> a convenient line of sight; I'm running Kismet and just letting it log 
> away happily. Currently I just have it on the passenger seat with the 
> screen facing me.
> 
> I've taken a peek through the windows of several cop cars lately (much 
> better than the inside views I'd get as a mischievous kid) and it seems 
> they're using notebooks now... any idea what they're using as a holder?
> 

I saw one mentioned a while ago, that was essentially a port replicator, 
attached to a post, that was bolted to the floor.


However, all you have to do, is Google "notebook mobile mount", to find 
some examples.

If you don't need to access it while driving, a couple of bungee cords 
will hold it down on a seat.



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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 20:07:42 2003
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:07:42 -0400
Subject: adsl connection
Message-ID: <3F6CB38E.6020303@sympatico.ca>

I had a similar problem with Sympatico when I first got it some years 
ago. If you reduce your MTU setting down to 1480 (from 1500) you should 
be fine. It may take a bit of trial and error to find the optimum upper 
limit for your particular set up.

John McGregor

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 20:09:16 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:09:16 -0400
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920140353.21041A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920140353.21041A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F6CB3EC.7040806@rogers.com>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Terrence Enger wrote:
> 
>>For funny reasons, I would to have a user id which is named 
>>with all capital letters.  However makes my screen sessions 
>>display in all capital letters.  Is there a way to avoid this 
>>effect on the screen?
> 
> 
> This is a feature, albeit an extremely old one.  If you log in with an
> all-caps login name, the login program concludes that you must be using an
> uppercase-only keyboard/terminal/whatever, and adjusts system settings
> accordingly. 
> 
> Try the command "stty -lcase", after logging in.  I don't recall any
> automatic way to turn this behavior off.

Adding that command to ,bashrc would do it.


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From kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 20:27:41 2003
From: kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Kristofer Coward)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 16:27:41 -0400
Subject: OT, vehicular notebook holder
In-Reply-To: <3F6CB369.8050009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6BCD55.3090309@rogers.com> <3F6CB369.8050009@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030920202740.GE5966@melon.org>

On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 04:07:05PM -0400, James Knott wrote:
> If you don't need to access it while driving, a couple of bungee cords 
> will hold it down on a seat.

And if you think that you need to access your laptop while driving, you
should spend a good long time considering the safety of other road
users while rethinking your priorities.

-- 
Kristofer Coward				http://unripe.melon.org/
GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733  830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 21:11:34 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:11:34 -0400
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <20030920120028.9703.h001.c009.wm-4xi/tfaRJV++TtN3LuOZE8GV+HDSZRyd8ZjxTxpiBLs@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920120028.9703.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID: <200309201711.35158.marc@lijour.net>

Le 20 Septembre 2003 15:00, gilles fourchet a ?crit :
> Hi,
>
> I am struggling with my ADSL connection for a couple a
> weeks now and I have reach the limit of my imagination.
>  So I would need your help.
>
> I had Rogers before and switched to an ADSL provider
> (EOL).  I red a bunch of docs and HOWTOs:  bottom line,
> as per what I red, it should be straightforward.  Based
> on that, I just installed the PPPoE package (Roaring
> Penguin) as well as the PPPoEconf one (I am using
> Debian Woody and PPPoEconf is the equivalent of
> ADSL-Setup for the other distros).  I plug the ADSL
> modem and start PPPoEconf: pppoe, Timeout Waiting for
> PADO packets.  Well.  I call my provider which confirms
> that everything is okay for them (I even brought the
> modem them to be tested.  Of course, it was fine).
> They open a ticket with Bell, which says that
> everything is okay from their network to my house.
> Perfect.  So the problem is in my house.  I ask Bell to
> come and, everything is okay in the house as well.

I just had the same problem. My ADSL connection was done most part of the week 
and I couldn't figure out why. The sunday before, my ISP had a hardware 
problem and I attributed all the guilt to them. The same, they opened a 
ticket, they called Bell, I talked to them etc.
But, then I remember I BOUGHT A NEW PHONE! A nice phone btw, it's a general 
electric you can carry at the belt and you talk thru the headset and 
microphone. Very handy! (26977GE2)
And you know what? I unplugged the phone from the wall switch and everythings 
gets back to normal. (no more PADO complaints, and no more timeout 
Config-Requests!...)

I cannot understand the reason why the phone seems to disrupt the normal 
working of the line.  I just have my ADSL back.

I would be happy to understand what happened here.



> Hum.  So the problem is with the kernel (so far, I was
> using the standard 2.8.18 kernel provided with Woody).
> I download the version 2.4.22, I use a recent machine
> (my firewall is an old 486 with NE2000 NIC) to be sure
> that the hardware is okay and I ensure that I select in
> the kernel all the PPP options as a module.  Once
> again, timeout, no PADO packets.  From there, I tried
> to load manually the module ppp_synctty but it did not
> change anything.
>
> As it seems that the configuration of ADSL is simple,
> the documentation missed an important information: it
> is simple as long as the system is correctly
> configured.  Obviously, mine is not and I have not
> found any documentation which explains what to do.
>
> Any idea?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Gilles
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 21:25:03 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:25:03 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309170902510.11364-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca> <00db01c37c86$4f454ef0$9c094d8e@wcom.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309170902510.11364@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200309201725.03993.marc@lijour.net>


That could be interesting!
Keep me posted.

Marc

Le 17 Septembre 2003 09:21, Ralph Doncaster a ?crit :
> No discounts, but I can do something for the group.
>
> I have a bunch of Efficient Networks Speedstream 4060 USB ADSL modems
> (surplus from the AOL/SBC ADSL campaign that flopped).  They don't
> officially have Linux support, but I'm pretty sure they can be setup to
> work with Linux.  Already my techs have been able to get the TurboComm
> EA-100 (Globespan chipset) USB modem to work by using a USB sniffer under
> Windows to capture the firmware downloaded to the modem.  The 4060's use
> an Alcatel chipset.  The Alcatel Speedtouch USB works with linux
> (http://www.linux-usb.org/SpeedTouch/) , so getting the 4060 to work
> should not be an insurmountable task.
>
> I'm willing to send a half dozen of these modems to someone in the group
> willing to coordinate a project to get them working under Linux.  Project
> participants would get to keep the modem.  If there are more than 6 TLUG
> members interested, I'd want the modems to go to IStop.com customers
> first.
>
> Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> 6042147 Canada Inc.
>
> On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Serge Kuznetsov wrote:
> > Hi Ralph,
> >
> > Do you make any discounts for TLUG members ?)
> >
> > May be in very near future I'll exchange my free corporate ADSL
> > connection for another ADSL privider. It looks like ISTOP have better
> > score than other ADSL providers.
> >
> > > -Ralph
> > > --
> >
> > All the Best!
> > Serge.
> > ================================
> > Serge Kuznetsov
> > Network Programmer - Analyst
>
> --
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 21:30:36 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:30:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <200309201725.03993.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309131738540.10401-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
 <00db01c37c86$4f454ef0$9c094d8e@wcom.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309170902510.11364@ns.istop.com>
 <200309201725.03993.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309201730100.498@ns.istop.com>

Well, so far nobody has offered to coordinate the project.

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

>
> That could be interesting!
> Keep me posted.
>
> Marc
>
> Le 17 Septembre 2003 09:21, Ralph Doncaster a ?crit :
> > No discounts, but I can do something for the group.
> >
> > I have a bunch of Efficient Networks Speedstream 4060 USB ADSL modems
> > (surplus from the AOL/SBC ADSL campaign that flopped).  They don't
> > officially have Linux support, but I'm pretty sure they can be setup to
> > work with Linux.  Already my techs have been able to get the TurboComm
> > EA-100 (Globespan chipset) USB modem to work by using a USB sniffer under
> > Windows to capture the firmware downloaded to the modem.  The 4060's use
> > an Alcatel chipset.  The Alcatel Speedtouch USB works with linux
> > (http://www.linux-usb.org/SpeedTouch/) , so getting the 4060 to work
> > should not be an insurmountable task.
> >
> > I'm willing to send a half dozen of these modems to someone in the group
> > willing to coordinate a project to get them working under Linux.  Project
> > participants would get to keep the modem.  If there are more than 6 TLUG
> > members interested, I'd want the modems to go to IStop.com customers
> > first.
> >
> > Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> > 6042147 Canada Inc.
> >
> > On Tue, 16 Sep 2003, Serge Kuznetsov wrote:
> > > Hi Ralph,
> > >
> > > Do you make any discounts for TLUG members ?)
> > >
> > > May be in very near future I'll exchange my free corporate ADSL
> > > connection for another ADSL privider. It looks like ISTOP have better
> > > score than other ADSL providers.
> > >
> > > > -Ralph
> > > > --
> > >
> > > All the Best!
> > > Serge.
> > > ================================
> > > Serge Kuznetsov
> > > Network Programmer - Analyst
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
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>
>
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From pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 21:30:38 2003
From: pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (dan braun)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:30:38 -0400
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <200309201711.35158.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309201711.35158.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <000001c37fbe$72bf0160$c864a8c0@teknix>

Hi There,

Dumb question time.
Did you installed an adsl line filter on this phone?

Dan

--
Dan Braun - PegaSoft Canada / CityTV
danb.nospam-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org


I cannot understand the reason why the phone seems to disrupt the normal

working of the line.  I just have my ADSL back.

I would be happy to understand what happened here.




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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 21:40:33 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:40:33 -0400
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <000001c37fbe$72bf0160$c864a8c0-da9dYf8AoNY@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37fbe$72bf0160$c864a8c0@teknix>
Message-ID: <200309201740.34714.marc@lijour.net>

Le 20 Septembre 2003 17:30, dan braun a ?crit :
> Hi There,
>
> Dumb question time.
> Did you installed an adsl line filter on this phone?

Hi Dan 

I did not mention that precisely it would appear dumb not to have put a 
filter. You're right!

(The phone looks so nice, you know what it is. Couldn't wait to try it.)

More seriously, I believed that the filter was working to filter out the DSL 
frequences from getting into your phone. I did not think that it worked in 
the other way. And what in a phone could disrupt the line (especially when it 
is just sitting here, off)?

>
> Dan
>
> --
> Dan Braun - PegaSoft Canada / CityTV
> danb.nospam-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org
>
>
> I cannot understand the reason why the phone seems to disrupt the normal
>
> working of the line.  I just have my ADSL back.
>
> I would be happy to understand what happened here.
>
>
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 21:47:00 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:47:00 -0400
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <200309201711.35158.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920120028.9703.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net> <200309201711.35158.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F6CCAD4.3010503@rogers.com>

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> 
> I just had the same problem. My ADSL connection was done most part of the week 
> and I couldn't figure out why. The sunday before, my ISP had a hardware 
> problem and I attributed all the guilt to them. The same, they opened a 
> ticket, they called Bell, I talked to them etc.
> But, then I remember I BOUGHT A NEW PHONE! A nice phone btw, it's a general 
> electric you can carry at the belt and you talk thru the headset and 
> microphone. Very handy! (26977GE2)
> And you know what? I unplugged the phone from the wall switch and everythings 
> gets back to normal. (no more PADO complaints, and no more timeout 
> Config-Requests!...)
> 
> I cannot understand the reason why the phone seems to disrupt the normal 
> working of the line.  I just have my ADSL back.

Did you remember to install a filter on that phone?  As I recall, every 
pbone must be connected through a filter.  My neighbour had the opposite 
problem.  She's been trying for a couple of months, to get Sympatico 
ADSL going.  We gave up on the 1st modem she got.  Then when we plugged 
in the replacement, it killed the phone line for the phones.  The 3rd 
modem should be arriving soon.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 21:50:08 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 17:50:08 -0400
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <200309201740.34714.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37fbe$72bf0160$c864a8c0@teknix> <200309201740.34714.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F6CCB90.9090509@rogers.com>

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> Le 20 Septembre 2003 17:30, dan braun a ?crit :
> 
>>Hi There,
>>
>>Dumb question time.
>>Did you installed an adsl line filter on this phone?
> 
> 
> Hi Dan 
> 
> I did not mention that precisely it would appear dumb not to have put a 
> filter. You're right!
> 
> (The phone looks so nice, you know what it is. Couldn't wait to try it.)
> 
> More seriously, I believed that the filter was working to filter out the DSL 
> frequences from getting into your phone. I did not think that it worked in 
> the other way. And what in a phone could disrupt the line (especially when it 
> is just sitting here, off)?

That would depend on the electrical characterics of the phone, when on 
hook.  If there's something in the phone circuitry that shunts the ADSL 
signal, it will kill ADSL.  It could be something a simple as a 
capacitor across the line.


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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 23:04:47 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:04:47 -0400
Subject: Need help with crontab
Message-ID: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450>

  Yes, I did RTFM.  The latest Windows virus making the rounds is
affecting even this linux user.  I have a 10 megabyte inbox at clss.net
which I use because it allows me full control over blocking.  That box
has already overflowed twice in the past couple of days, thanks to Gibe.F
(or whatever it's called).  I normally use mutt to pull email manually
into my home directory via a script ~/bin/clssmailin which consists of
the lines...

#!/bin/bash
ssh -P -f -L 10110:pop3.clss.net:110 my_user_ID-1sV0mdQTbhc at public.gmane.org sleep 25
/usr/bin/mutt -F /home/waltdnes/.symmutt/clssmuttrc

by putting "push Gqy" into the config file, mutt receives the keystrokes
G - (Get popmail) followed by
q - quit
y - "yes" to the confirmation prompt
setting 10110 as the pop port, and 127.0.0.1 as the pop server are the
only changes required for ssh-tunneling

  Given the approximate 2/3rd of a megabyte per hour I get from my
mailing lists+Gibe.F, I'd like to automate this, so the computer can
pull it without me having to issue the command manually.  I've tried
crontab as follows...

# use /bin/sh to run commands, no matter what /etc/passwd says
SHELL=/bin/sh
# no mail sent
MAILTO=""
#
# run every hour
43 * * * * /misc/home/waltdnes/bin/clssmailin >> /misc/home/waltdnes/out 2>&1

  (*YES* it is /misc/home/waltdnes) Nothing happens, and the out file
gets the message...

sh: line 1: gettext: command not found
No recipients were specified.

  When I run clssmailin manually, it works, although I do get the
"sh: line 1: gettext: command not found" message.  I've tried it with
and without "#!/bin/sh" as the first line.  Any clues on getting this to
work?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 23:31:34 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 19:31:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Need help with crontab
In-Reply-To: <20030920230447.GA2981-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030@xword.rogers.com>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   Yes, I did RTFM.  The latest Windows virus making the rounds is
> affecting even this linux user.  I have a 10 megabyte inbox at clss.net
> which I use because it allows me full control over blocking.  That box
> has already overflowed twice in the past couple of days, thanks to Gibe.F
> (or whatever it's called).  I normally use mutt to pull email manually
> into my home directory via a script ~/bin/clssmailin which consists of
> the lines...
>
> #!/bin/bash
> ssh -P -f -L 10110:pop3.clss.net:110 my_user_ID-1sV0mdQTbhc at public.gmane.org sleep 25
> /usr/bin/mutt -F /home/waltdnes/.symmutt/clssmuttrc
>
> by putting "push Gqy" into the config file, mutt receives the keystrokes
> G - (Get popmail) followed by
> q - quit
> y - "yes" to the confirmation prompt
> setting 10110 as the pop port, and 127.0.0.1 as the pop server are the
> only changes required for ssh-tunneling
>
>   Given the approximate 2/3rd of a megabyte per hour I get from my
> mailing lists+Gibe.F, I'd like to automate this, so the computer can
> pull it without me having to issue the command manually.  I've tried
> crontab as follows...
>
> # use /bin/sh to run commands, no matter what /etc/passwd says
> SHELL=/bin/sh
> # no mail sent
> MAILTO=""
> #
> # run every hour
> 43 * * * * /misc/home/waltdnes/bin/clssmailin >> /misc/home/waltdnes/out 2>&1
>
>   (*YES* it is /misc/home/waltdnes) Nothing happens, and the out file
> gets the message...
>
> sh: line 1: gettext: command not found
> No recipients were specified.
>
>   When I run clssmailin manually, it works, although I do get the
> "sh: line 1: gettext: command not found" message.  I've tried it with
> and without "#!/bin/sh" as the first line.  Any clues on getting this to
> work?

     Cron jobs do not have the environment your interactive shell has.
     The usual culprit is the PATH variable. Make sure you set it
     explicitly, either in the crontab file or in the script itself.

     You mighjt also look at using mailfilter:
              <http://sourceforge.net/projects/mailfilter/>

     It will not catch them all, but it can prevent downloading the
     majority of unwanted junk.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 12:29:40 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 21 Sep 2003 08:29:40 -0400
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <200309201740.34714.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37fbe$72bf0160$c864a8c0@teknix>
	 <200309201740.34714.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <1064147379.7813.28.camel@yoda>

On Sat, 2003-09-20 at 17:40, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)
wrote:
> More seriously, I believed that the filter was working to filter out the DSL 
> frequences from getting into your phone. I did not think that it worked in 
> the other way. And what in a phone could disrupt the line (especially when it 
> is just sitting here, off)?

First thing's first: a telephone wire is a transmission line.  From an
Electrical Engineering perspective, this is very important.  If you have
a sender attached to a transmission line that is open or shorted at the
end (or any other impedance mismatch), you get signal reflections.  Your
ordinary phone equipment is designed to terminate a specific set of
frequencies (i.e. voice band), but not the high frequencies on which 
xDSL operates.  DSL Modems are very sensitive to noise and transmission
line effects, hence the upper limits on distance from the CO.  Your
phone is likely causing a mismatched stub on the line, completely
messing up the transmission line between your modem and the DSLAM.  The
filter terminates the line correctly at DSL frequencies, yet allows
voice frequencies to pass unaltered.

In a nutshell:  standard phone equipment deals with voice stuff, but
messes up DSL.  DSL equipment deals with both.  Filter the phones, and
your modem will be fine.

HTH!

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold
  two opposed ideas in the mind at the same time, and still retain
  the ability to function.
    -- F. Scott Fitzgerald (1896 - 1940)
 ********************************************************************/


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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 00:00:41 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:00:41 -0400
Subject: I'm puzzled by this perl behaviour
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309201557460.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.c
 om>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309201557460.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.c
 om>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030920200041.0074da8c@idirect.com>

At 16:05 2003-09-20 -0400, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>[Disclaimer: I don't actually know perl.]
>
At 16:05 2003-09-20 -0400, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> [Disclaimer: I don't actually know perl.]
> 
> I don't understand why the regular expression match in the following
> perl script fails if and only if the environment is utf8.
> 
> If the RE element can be matched without a "+" suffix, surely it can
> match with a "+" suffix.  Matching exactly once should be a stronger
> condition than matching at least once.
> 
> My guess is that there is some Perl feature that I don't know about
> that explains this behaviour.
> 
> Help!
> 
> Hugh Redelmeier
> hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253
[snip]

For what it's worth, I get "package happy" with both values
of LANG when I execute whacky.pl on ...

 (*) "This is perl, v5.8.0 built for i386-linux" runing on
     Slackware 9.0

 (*) "This is perl, v5.6.1 built for
     MSWin32-x86-multi-thread (with 1 registered patch, see
     perl -V for more detail)" running on Windows ME.

 (*) "This is perl, version 5.005_02 built for os400"
     running on OS/400 V5R2.

Terry.
Available for contract programming.


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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 00:05:54 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:05:54 -0400
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <3F6CB3EC.7040806-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920140353.21041A-100000@spsystems.net>
 <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920140353.21041A-100000@spsystems.net> <3F6CB3EC.7040806@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20030920200554.0074dbc4@idirect.com>

At 16:09 2003-09-20 -0400, James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>Henry Spencer wrote:
> > On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Terrence Enger wrote:
> > 
> > > For funny reasons, I would to have a user id which is named 
> > > with all capital letters.  However makes my screen sessions 
> > > display in all capital letters.  Is there a way to avoid this 
> > > effect on the screen?
> > 
> > 
> > This is a feature, albeit an extremely old one.  If you log in with an
> > all-caps login name, the login program concludes that you must be using an
> > uppercase-only keyboard/terminal/whatever, and adjusts system settings
> > accordingly. 
> > 
> > Try the command "stty -lcase", after logging in.  I don't recall any
> > automatic way to turn this behavior off.
>
> Adding that command to ,bashrc would do it.

Thank you, all.  That is exactly what I was looking for.

<aside>Speakng of upper-case only terminals, has anybody
else here programmed using a model 33 teletype?</aside>

Terry.


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From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 20:12:59 2003
From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:12:59 +0000
Subject: Bob Young. Redhat, 3pm, Oct 8 Seneca College
Message-ID: <20030920201259.7b52e1b1.cdasilva@iprimus.ca>

hello folks,

Pardon my ignorance, but which of Seneca's campuses is this event at ?

Clive

-- 
Clive DaSilva 
Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org
Linux -  Slackware 7.1 Kernel 2.4.22
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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 00:44:40 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:44:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bob Young. Redhat, 3pm, Oct 8 Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <20030920201259.7b52e1b1.cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920201259.7b52e1b1.cdasilva@iprimus.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309202042560.7701-100000@tosh5100.net>

It is at the Seneca at York campus. Wednesday, October 8th, 3:15pm, Room:TBA

I don't see why he's not coming to our campus (Seneca at Don Mills).
We're running Linux left and right here. :(

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 20 20:57:40 2003
From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:57:40 +0000
Subject: Bob Young. Redhat, 3pm, Oct 8 Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309202042560.7701-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920201259.7b52e1b1.cdasilva@iprimus.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0309202042560.7701-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <20030920205740.70a78ec7.cdasilva@iprimus.ca>

Thank you, Teodor



On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:44:40 -0400 (EDT)
Teodor Iliescu <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> It is at the Seneca at York campus. Wednesday, October 8th, 3:15pm, Room:TBA
> 
> I don't see why he's not coming to our campus (Seneca at Don Mills).
> We're running Linux left and right here. :(
> 
> -- 
> Teodor I.
> http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
> GPG : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 


-- 
Clive DaSilva 
Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org
Linux -  Slackware 7.1 Kernel 2.4.22
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 01:40:39 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 21:40:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030920200554.0074dbc4-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20030920200554.0074dbc4@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920214028.26123B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Terrence Enger wrote:
> <aside>Speakng of upper-case only terminals, has anybody
> else here programmed using a model 33 teletype?</aside>

Unfortunately, yes.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 02:45:44 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:45:44 -0400
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030920200554.0074dbc4-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920140353.21041A-100000@spsystems.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920140353.21041A-100000@spsystems.net> <3.0.3.32.20030920200554.0074dbc4@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <3F6D10D8.8090607@rogers.com>

Terrence Enger wrote:

> <aside>Speakng of upper-case only terminals, has anybody
> else here programmed using a model 33 teletype?</aside>

While I never had to program using one, I used to repair and maintain 
them, along with M28, M32 & M35 and other equipment.  I also had a model 
35 ASR connected to my first computer, and Imsai 8080.

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 02:47:09 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:47:09 -0400
Subject: Bob Young. Redhat, 3pm, Oct 8 Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309202042560.7701-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309202042560.7701-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <3F6D112D.20707@rogers.com>

Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> It is at the Seneca at York campus. Wednesday, October 8th, 3:15pm, Room:TBA
> 
> I don't see why he's not coming to our campus (Seneca at Don Mills).
> We're running Linux left and right here. :(
> 

It would also be nice, if it was in the evening.  Some of us have to 
work for a living!


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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 03:17:12 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:17:12 -0400
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920214028.26123B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <002701c37fee$da159f60$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Henry Spencer" <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> on Saturday, September 20, 2003 9:40
PM wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Terrence Enger wrote:
> > <aside>Speakng of upper-case only terminals, has anybody
> > else here programmed using a model 33 teletype?</aside>
>
> Unfortunately, yes.

I wouldn't be so negative... The first computer I ever got to use was a DEC
PDP-8L (loaded with 8K of 12 bit memory...) that was tied to two Model 33
teletypes. Yes they were loud and slow but for me they do carry a certain
charm in my books...

Colin McGregor

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 03:25:36 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:25:36 -0400
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <002701c37fee$da159f60$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030920214028.26123B-100000@spsystems.net> <002701c37fee$da159f60$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F6D1A30.30400@rogers.com>

Colin McGregor wrote:
> "Henry Spencer" <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> on Saturday, September 20, 2003 9:40
> PM wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Terrence Enger wrote:
>>
>>><aside>Speakng of upper-case only terminals, has anybody
>>>else here programmed using a model 33 teletype?</aside>
>>
>>Unfortunately, yes.
> 
> 
> I wouldn't be so negative... The first computer I ever got to use was a DEC
> PDP-8L (loaded with 8K of 12 bit memory...) that was tied to two Model 33
> teletypes. Yes they were loud and slow but for me they do carry a certain
> charm in my books...

At work, we supported a PDP-8i, which also had a M33, as did the Data 
General Nova computers we also had.  However, for my own use, I went 
with a M35, because after servicing them for a few years, I knew I 
didn't want 33.  The 32 & 33 lines were cheap and unreliable.  The 28 & 
35 were built like tanks, extremely reliable and a lot easier to fix. 
The 32 and 33 had some "bending" adjustments, where you actually had to 
bend a part to make an adjustment.  All too often, that part would 
break.  Then there was the cast "white metal" base, that would wind up 
with stripped threads in mounting holes.  And there were also the 
replacement parts that didn't quite fit, requiring a bit of work with a 
file, destroying the case hardening in the process...





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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 03:29:56 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:29:56 -0400
Subject: Need help with crontab
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030921032956.GA3636@m450>

On Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 07:31:34PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote

  Nope, PATH wasn't it, neither was ssh_askpass.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 00:40:35 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 20:40:35 -0400
Subject: Bob Young. Redhat, 3pm, Oct 8 Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309202042560.7701-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>; from tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 20, 2003 at 20:44:40 -0400
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309202042560.7701-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <20030921004035.GA25082@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/20/2003 08:44:40 PM, Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> It is at the Seneca at York campus. Wednesday, October 8th, 3:15pm, Room:TBA

That sucks.  I'll be teaching a class then... in the same building though.  If  
there's going to be any sort of beer-related gatherings afterward, let me  
know.

BTW, if any of you have never been to the new TEL building (technology  
enhanced learning), it's just next door to S at Y, and it's pretty cool.

Austin

--
                        Austin Acton Hon.B.Sc.
             Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant
           Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
             MandrakeClub Volunteer (www.mandrakeclub.com)
                     homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 05:11:58 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 01:11:58 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: Message from Drew Hamilton <awh-z32R3RYGf1M@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 59:15 EDT." <20030919125915.GA25544%awh-z32R3RYGf1M@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20030919075326.9BB5B4305@cbbrowne.com> 
 <200309190607.08963.fraser@wehave.net> <20030919122406.1C8FE42FA@cbbrowne.com>
   <20030919125915.GA25544%awh@awh.org>
Message-ID: <20030921051159.B90CC3FC2@cbbrowne.com>

> On Fri, Sep 19, 2003 at 08:24:05AM -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > "Huh?  Windows  was designed to keep  the idiots away from  Unix so we
> > could hack in peace.  Let's not break that." -- Tom Christiansen
> 
> Wow, that's pretty snobbish and elitist.  No wonder nobody likes
> computer geeks.

I don't feel terribly repentant on days when I have had to wade through 
hip-deep amounts of "crud" that resulted from "those idiots" having gotten 
onto the Internet, and due to their incapacity to manage the systems that they 
bought from Microsoft, flooded us all with crud.

Perhaps I should be sorry; I might be if there hadn't been 170MB of crud in my 
mailbox.

Back in the "old days," that would be a news feed for a whole site for a week.

Back in the "old days," I had hard drives _considerably_ smaller than that.
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="ntlug.org" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;
http://cbbrowne.com/info/unix.html
Entia non sunt multiplicanda sine necessitate.


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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 06:18:45 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 02:18:45 -0400
Subject: OT, vehicular notebook holder
In-Reply-To: <20030920202740.GE5966-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6BCD55.3090309@rogers.com> <3F6CB369.8050009@rogers.com> <20030920202740.GE5966@melon.org>
Message-ID: <3F6D42C5.6030607@rogers.com>

>>If you don't need to access it while driving, a couple of bungee cords 
>>will hold it down on a seat.

God no I won't be looking at it while driving. The seat is on a slant 
though and I want to keep the notebook horizontal. Bungees aren't a bad 
idea, but the nature of my car seating combined with my desire to have 
unimpeded access to the keyboard (when parked and stationary) leads me 
to think it wouldn't work out so well. I also need to secure it on two 
axes so a criss-cross of bungees sounds like a pain.

It wouldn't be such a hassle 'cept for the pigtail connector to the wnic 
is a little tender and the main 10' antenna wire is somewhat unwieldy 
thicknet type stuff.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 10:08:37 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 06:08:37 -0400
Subject: Workaround (don't laugh; it works)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030921100837.GA12242@m450>

  I can only get this to work from a real shell, and not crontab.  So
opened up a new tty by going {ALT-F4} and logging in.  I created the
following script and ran it...

#!/bin/bash
while :
  do
/usr/bin/ssh -P -f -L 10110:pop3.clss.net:110 myuserID-1sV0mdQTbhc at public.gmane.org sleep 25
/usr/bin/mutt -F /home/waltdnes/.symmutt/clssmuttrc
date
sleep 3600
  done

  Yeah, it's heavy-handed, but it works.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 15:10:41 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 11:10:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Workaround (don't laugh; it works)
In-Reply-To: <20030921100837.GA12242-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030@xword.rogers.com>
 <20030921100837.GA12242@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211106220.24998@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   I can only get this to work from a real shell, and not crontab.  So
> opened up a new tty by going {ALT-F4} and logging in.  I created the
> following script and ran it...

Walt, try running a script from cron (as you were trying before) but have
the first line as #!/bin/bash -i rather than just /bin/bash.  This creates
a bash environment equivalent to your interactive environment.  If bash
realises it isn't being run interactively (eg, from cron) it won't execute
commands in ~/.bashrc.  It knows when it is being run interactively
because it will have a terminal attached.

A couple of years ago I saved some Solaris developers from pulling
all their hair out by suggesting this one :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 16:06:57 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:06:57 -0400
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <200309201711.35158.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920120028.9703.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net> <200309201711.35158.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F6DCCA1.3060409@truxtar.com>


I hope you had an ADSL filter on that phone, right?


Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

>
>I cannot understand the reason why the phone seems to disrupt the normal 
>working of the line.  I just have my ADSL back.
>
>
>  
>

--

Anton


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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 17:44:08 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:44:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: secure mail pickup [was: Need help with crontab]
In-Reply-To: <20030920230447.GA2981-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211309460.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org

Reverse engineering:
- You are using mutt to pick up mail via pop3.
- You are doing it through an SSH tunnel using port forwarding

I would guess that fetchmail would be a better tool than mutt for
non-interactive pop3 mail pickup.

fetchmail(1) lists a "plugin" option that claims to be useful if you
want to use SSL or SSH.  It even gives an example.  I've not tried
this.  Have a look at
<http://mah.everybody.org/docs/mail/fetchmail_check>

I use SMTP over IPsec myself.  SMTP doesn't work so well if your machine
off the net for significant periods.  I use FreeS/WAN's Opportunistic
Encryption so any communication that can be encrypted is encrypted.

| ssh -P -f -L 10110:pop3.clss.net:110 my_user_ID-1sV0mdQTbhc at public.gmane.org sleep 25
| /usr/bin/mutt -F /home/waltdnes/.symmutt/clssmuttrc

My OpenSSH man page does not seem to list -P.

Does this script assume that all mail can be transferred within 25
seconds?  Pretty crude approach.

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 16:05:39 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 19:05:39 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: ADSL connection with Woody
In-Reply-To: <200309201740.34714.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37fbe$72bf0160$c864a8c0@teknix> <200309201740.34714.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211904440.549@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> More seriously, I believed that the filter was working to filter out the DSL
> frequences from getting into your phone. I did not think that it worked in
> the other way. And what in a phone could disrupt the line (especially when it
> is just sitting here, off)?

The ringer and the filter circuits in the phone look like a short or
reactive load at high frequency and twist the frequency response.

Peter
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 17:55:13 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 13:55:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: I'm puzzled by this perl behaviour
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030920200041.0074da8c-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20030920200041.0074da8c@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211349180.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Terrence Enger <tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org>

| At 16:05 2003-09-20 -0400, "D. Hugh Redelmeier" <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
| > 
| > I don't understand why the regular expression match in the following
| > perl script fails if and only if the environment is utf8.

| For what it's worth, I get "package happy" with both values
| of LANG when I execute whacky.pl on ...
| 
|  (*) "This is perl, v5.8.0 built for i386-linux" runing on
|      Slackware 9.0
| 
|  (*) "This is perl, v5.6.1 built for
|      MSWin32-x86-multi-thread (with 1 registered patch, see
|      perl -V for more detail)" running on Windows ME.
| 
|  (*) "This is perl, version 5.005_02 built for os400"
|      running on OS/400 V5R2.

Thanks.  This appears to be a bug in Red Hat LINUX 9.0's perl.

	This is perl, v5.8.0 built for i386-linux-thread-multi
	(with 1 registered patch, see perl -V for more detail)

See
	<http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=102106>
	<http://www.livejournal.com/users/jwz/257602.html>


Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 18:27:48 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:27:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <20030920005419.GA6260-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920005419.GA6260@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org

|   And at work, there are sevral
| hundred *DESKTOPS* with publicly routable IP addresses.  Why?  What's
| wrong with RFC1918 addresses for desktop users?

The internet is a community of peers.  Resist the pressure to make it
a "market" with consumers and a priviledged producer class.

See this sad announcement: <http://fourmilab.ch/speakfree/eol/>

Surely LINUX users understand this.

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 18:38:54 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:38:54 -0400
Subject: secure mail pickup [was: Need help with crontab]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211309460.26952-100000-phKd+DpA3E7v+jA/tZBGeEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211309460.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20030921183854.GA13018@m450>

On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 01:44:08PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote

> I would guess that fetchmail would be a better tool than mutt for
> non-interactive pop3 mail pickup.
> 
> fetchmail(1) lists a "plugin" option that claims to be useful if you
> want to use SSL or SSH.  It even gives an example.  I've not tried
> this.  Have a look at
> <http://mah.everybody.org/docs/mail/fetchmail_check>

  Another app and another plugin (Lawyer from Eolas on line 1) to learn,
install, and set up.  Occam's Razor is against this.

> My OpenSSH man page does not seem to list -P.

  Neither does mine.  This gives an idea of how long that script has
been working for me.  (Set it and forget it).

> 
> Does this script assume that all mail can be transferred within 25
> seconds?  Pretty crude approach.

  Nope.  Direct quote from "man ssh".

> The session terminates when the command or shell on the remote
> machine exits and all X11 and TCP/IP connections have been closed.
                ****************************************************

  The 25 seconds is a window for any connection to open.  The tunnel
stays open *AT LEAST* 25 seconds, or until the POP session finishes,
*WHICHEVER TAKES LONGER*.  I've used it from a motel, with really old
wiring where I only got 33.6 out of a v90 modem, and I've spent minutes
downloading email on occasion.  It works.  Trust me.  I've been using it
since back when the "-P" was required <g>.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 18:47:32 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 14:47:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: userid all-caps makes screen output all-caps.
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030920200554.0074dbc4-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20030920200554.0074dbc4@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211441550.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: Terrence Enger <tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org>

| At 16:09 2003-09-20 -0400, James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
| >Henry Spencer wrote:
| > > On Sat, 20 Sep 2003, Terrence Enger wrote:
| > > 
| > > This is a feature, albeit an extremely old one.  If you log in with an
| > > all-caps login name, the login program concludes that you must be using an
| > > uppercase-only keyboard/terminal/whatever, and adjusts system settings
| > > accordingly. 
| > > 
| > > Try the command "stty -lcase", after logging in.  I don't recall any
| > > automatic way to turn this behavior off.
| >
| > Adding that command to ,bashrc would do it.
| 
| Thank you, all.  That is exactly what I was looking for.
| 
| <aside>Speakng of upper-case only terminals, has anybody
| else here programmed using a model 33 teletype?</aside>

There may be a better way, depending on which variant of getty you are
using.  getty is the program that listens for logins.  Linux has a lot
of getty variants (do a "man -k getty" for a few examples).

For example, mgettydefs(4) describes /etc/gettydefs, the control file
for mgetty and perhaps other variants of getty.  Look at the -LCASE
flag.

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 16:22:16 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:22:16 -0400
Subject: OpenGL screensaver methods?
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.2.20030921121902.009ec130@pop1.sympatico.ca>

I've written an OpenGL screensaver for Windows and would like to port it to 
Linux, so I'm hoping someone can tell me where to find Linux source code 
for an OpenGL screensaver.

Thanks ...


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 19:36:12 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:36:12 -0400
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000-phKd+DpA3E7v+jA/tZBGeEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920005419.GA6260@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <20030921193612.GA13220@m450>

On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 02:27:48PM -0400, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote
> | From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org
> 
> |   And at work, there are sevral
> | hundred *DESKTOPS* with publicly routable IP addresses.  Why?  What's
> | wrong with RFC1918 addresses for desktop users?
> 
> The internet is a community of peers.  Resist the pressure to make it
> a "market" with consumers and a priviledged producer class.
> 
> See this sad announcement: <http://fourmilab.ch/speakfree/eol/>

  1) Why do *DESKTOP USERS* need fixed IP addresses *AT THEIR PLACE
OF EMPLOYMENT* ???  What servers/peers do their job descriptions call
for them to run ???

  2) If corporations didn't grab static public IP addresses for their
desktops (and then firewall the daylights out of the gateway) there
might actually be some static IP address left over for ISPs to hand out
to *RESIDENTIAL* users.

> Surely LINUX users understand this.

  The crowd on this list understands.  Unfortunately, most users are
incapable of properly securing their machines.  Consider, for instance,
my router log files.

[root at m450 root]# ll -o -g /var/log/RT314.*
-rw-------    1  1425582 Sep 21 15:32 /var/log/RT314.1
-rw-------    1   116291 Sep 15 00:53 /var/log/RT314.2.gz
-rw-------    1   134637 Sep  8 08:58 /var/log/RT314.3.gz
-rw-------    1   105812 Aug 31 04:02 /var/log/RT314.4.gz

  Right now, I'm in the middle of a thread about how to automate polling
my remote inbox once every hour, so that it doesn't get overflowed by
viruses.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 19:37:00 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:37:00 -0400
Subject: Workaround (don't laugh; it works)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211106220.24998-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030@xword.rogers.com> <20030921100837.GA12242@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211106220.24998@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20030921193700.GB13220@m450>

On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 11:10:41AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> >   I can only get this to work from a real shell, and not crontab.  So
> > opened up a new tty by going {ALT-F4} and logging in.  I created the
> > following script and ran it...
> 
> Walt, try running a script from cron (as you were trying before) but have
> the first line as #!/bin/bash -i rather than just /bin/bash.  This creates
> a bash environment equivalent to your interactive environment.  If bash
> realises it isn't being run interactively (eg, from cron) it won't execute
> commands in ~/.bashrc.  It knows when it is being run interactively
> because it will have a terminal attached.

  It almost looks as if it *INSISTS* on a real live shell.  Here's what
I get when using -i

bash: no job control in this shell
No value for $TERM and no -T specified
No value for $TERM and no -T specified
sh: line 1: gettext: command not found
No recipients were specified.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From barnes-Uy7SA7rwGY9Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 19:42:16 2003
From: barnes-Uy7SA7rwGY9Wk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Barnes)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:42:16 -0400
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000-phKd+DpA3E7v+jA/tZBGeEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <DBEKLEMGHICEKLECCCIEEELCCEAA.barnes@marchmen.com>


Sun has been trying to address these issues and turn the internet back into
a community of peers. They created an open source project called Project
JXTA (www.jxta.org) which is now in it's second version. It's an interesting
project, with some great ideas, but there aren't many applications out there
that use it.
Kevin

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of D. Hugh
Redelmeier
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 2:28 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Is this the new Y2K scam?


| From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org

|   And at work, there are sevral
| hundred *DESKTOPS* with publicly routable IP addresses.  Why?  What's
| wrong with RFC1918 addresses for desktop users?

The internet is a community of peers.  Resist the pressure to make it
a "market" with consumers and a priviledged producer class.

See this sad announcement: <http://fourmilab.ch/speakfree/eol/>

Surely LINUX users understand this.

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 13 07:21:35 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 03:21:35 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd:Netscape lock & purge]]
Message-ID: <3F62C57F.339067E2@onlink.net>


-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
Subject: [Fwd: [TLUG]: Netscape lock & purge]
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:33:20 -0400
Size: 5019
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/attachments/20030913/7eebe4c8/attachment.mht>

From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 20:07:14 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:07:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <20030921193612.GA13220-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920005419.GA6260@m450>
        <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>
        <20030921193612.GA13220@m450>
Message-ID: <14351.216.138.194.32.1064174834.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


>   1) Why do *DESKTOP USERS* need fixed IP addresses *AT THEIR PLACE
> OF EMPLOYMENT* ???  What servers/peers do their job descriptions call
> for them to run ???

If this was implemented in the days before NAT I could see it.

>   2) If corporations didn't grab static public IP addresses for their
> desktops (and then firewall the daylights out of the gateway) there
> might actually be some static IP address left over for ISPs to hand out
> to *RESIDENTIAL* users.

ipv6 is the pathway to the future, where every vehicle, telephone or even
person has a private routable ip address. The few million Ip's you're
trying to recover are meaningless.



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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 20:39:57 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 16:39:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <20030921193612.GA13220-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030921193612.GA13220@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030921162959.9584D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > The internet is a community of peers.  Resist the pressure to make it
> > a "market" with consumers and a priviledged producer class.
> > See this sad announcement: <http://fourmilab.ch/speakfree/eol/>
> 
>   1) Why do *DESKTOP USERS* need fixed IP addresses *AT THEIR PLACE
> OF EMPLOYMENT* ???  What servers/peers do their job descriptions call
> for them to run ???

See the URL Hugh quoted for one example of a server they might want to
run:  a receiver for voice-over-IP phone calls.  More generally, any
service which must be interactive, which can't run in a store-and-forward
mode like mail, needs to go direct.  Mail is the exception, not the rule.

Of course, if you define the environment to include NAT, there will be no
such services, so you will have difficulty finding any examples.  Likewise
if you define the situation so that all legitimate peers are inside the
NAT barrier... which is not a safe assumption in general. 

>   2) If corporations didn't grab static public IP addresses for their
> desktops (and then firewall the daylights out of the gateway) there
> might actually be some static IP address left over for ISPs to hand out
> to *RESIDENTIAL* users.

While I don't have actual data on hand, I suspect there are fewer of the
former than of the latter already.

> > Surely LINUX users understand this.
> 
>   The crowd on this list understands.  Unfortunately, most users are
> incapable of properly securing their machines.

Uh, true, but what has that got to do with static IP addresses?  (Anyone
who runs a NAT box could run a firewall instead.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 20:51:17 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 23:51:17 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Workaround (don't laugh; it works)
In-Reply-To: <20030921193700.GB13220-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030@xword.rogers.com>
 <20030921100837.GA12242@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211106220.24998@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <20030921193700.GB13220@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309212351000.728@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Silly q: is the x bit on the script set (for the user) ?

Peter
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 22:10:43 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:10:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Workaround (don't laugh; it works)
In-Reply-To: <20030921193700.GB13220-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030920230447.GA2981@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.56.0309201927210.1030@xword.rogers.com>
 <20030921100837.GA12242@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211106220.24998@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <20030921193700.GB13220@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309211800380.24998@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   It almost looks as if it *INSISTS* on a real live shell.  Here's what
> I get when using -i
>
> bash: no job control in this shell
> No value for $TERM and no -T specified
> No value for $TERM and no -T specified
> sh: line 1: gettext: command not found
> No recipients were specified.

I've run across this exact problem.  There is something in .bashrc which
is expecting an interactive shell.  IIRC the last time I saw this I was
having a problem with "mesg n" among other lines.  I would avoid using
your normal .bashrc anyway[1].  Consider loading any needed environment
variables from within the script itself.  It is safer this was as you may
change your .bashrc later and break automated scripts without noticing.

[1] If I hadn't been in a rush earlier I might have considered this before
posting last time :)

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 22:36:17 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:36:17 -0500
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Oralux] Oralux in Ottawa
Message-ID: <20030921223617.1A4C879127@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

Forwarded from the general Oralux list. Oralux is a Knoppix-based
bootable-CD distro featuring software for the visually impaired.  It
boots straight into Emacspeak.

Anyone heard much about this exhibition - a FLOSS showcase put on by the
federal government?  Sounds quite interesting, indeed.

On 21 Sep 2003 18:24:51 -0400, "Chris Moffit" <chris-SclcGic7QHn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> said:
> Hello all,
> 
> I have talked with the Canadian Government official (Joseph Potvin) who
> asked for help with Oralux in the up coming Government technology
> exhibition.  There will be a section dedicated to Open source software. 
> People who working in the government will be able to come and see what
> technology is out there and see how it is applied.  Joseph is trying to
> show people how Open Source software (linux) can be applied and used.
> 
> Oralux may be demonstrated, but that decision will come at a later date.
> 
> Chris Moffit
> 
> On Thu, 2003-09-11 at 15:08, gcasse-LGJ1rfqPazQdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Would a Canadian lister be interested in demoing Oralux in Ottawa? This would be
> > at the GTEC in October.
> > The mail from Joseph Potvin follows.
> > Greetings,
> > 
> > Gilles
> > 
> > 
> > Hello, A colleague (Joe Foster, who I have c.c.'d) let me know recently about
> > Oralux. We want to arrange a demo at the "Government Technology" (GTEC) trade
> > show on 7-8 October in Ottawa, Canada, within the "Open Source Lab" section. I
> > hope to have demos that address accessibility -- visual, mobility, and
> > linguistic.  Do you have an Oralux team member anywhere near Ottawa?  If not,
> > can you assist us as we prepare Joe, or somebody else, to demo Oralux?
> > 
> > Let talk asap.
> > 
> > Joseph (Jos?) Potvin
> > Management Team Member, Enterprise Architecture
> > Information Technology Standards, Architecture, and Security Sector
> > Telecommunications & Informatics Program Branch (TIPB)
> > Public Works and Government Services Canada (PWGSC)
> > Government of Canada
> > 11 Rue Laurier, Place du Portage, Phase III, 4th Floor (4A1)
> > Gatineau (Hull), Quebec K1A 0S5
> > (819) 956-8617 Voice
> > (819) 956-8621 Fax
> > joseph.potvin-Z9BKn1TQ3rIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
> >   
> > --
> > Oralux http://oralux.org
> -- 
> Chris Moffit <chris-SclcGic7QHn3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Pour vous desabonner envoyez un mail a ml-unsubscribe-LGJ1rfqPazQdnm+yROfE0A at public.gmane.org
> 
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
--
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 21 22:52:18 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:52:18 -0400
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030921162959.9584D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030921193612.GA13220@m450> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030921162959.9584D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20030921225218.GA13541@m450>

On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 04:39:57PM -0400, Henry Spencer wrote
> On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > > The internet is a community of peers.  Resist the pressure to make it
> > > a "market" with consumers and a priviledged producer class.
> > > See this sad announcement: <http://fourmilab.ch/speakfree/eol/>
> > 
> >   1) Why do *DESKTOP USERS* need fixed IP addresses *AT THEIR PLACE
> > OF EMPLOYMENT* ???  What servers/peers do their job descriptions call
> > for them to run ???
> 
> See the URL Hugh quoted for one example of a server they might want
> to run:  a receiver for voice-over-IP phone calls.  More generally,
> any service which must be interactive, which can't run in a
> store-and-forward mode like mail, needs to go direct.

  Voice apps, like Speak-Freely, could go over the public net to a
designated port at the corporate gateway.  From there, they could go to
a central PBX at work, and then be routed to the appropriate client.
This is the same model that AIM, MSN, Yahoo, and all the other messenger
services use, except that the central server is under local company
control.

> Mail is the exception, not the rule.

  There is a shared characteristic... do you *REALLY* want to have a
server, listening to the internet, on every desktop at work ?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 00:11:18 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:11:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Is this the new Y2K scam?
In-Reply-To: <20030921225218.GA13541-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030921225218.GA13541@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030921200315.9584K-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > See the URL Hugh quoted for one example of a server they might want
> > to run:  a receiver for voice-over-IP phone calls.  More generally,
> > any service which must be interactive, which can't run in a
> > store-and-forward mode like mail, needs to go direct.
> 
>   Voice apps, like Speak-Freely, could go over the public net to a
> designated port at the corporate gateway.  From there, they could go to
> a central PBX at work, and then be routed to the appropriate client...

It could be done that way, but note that this is basically make-work for
the central server -- it adds no value, considerable complexity, and
probably substantial propagation delay, especially since it will have to
unpack and repackage the data rather than just relaying packets.  This
could easily turn a viable application into a useless toy. 

> > Mail is the exception, not the rule.
> 
>   There is a shared characteristic... do you *REALLY* want to have a
> server, listening to the internet, on every desktop at work ?

If it's providing a useful service, why not? 

I think you're falling into the trap Hugh alluded to, of thinking of the
Internet as providers plus consumers, rather than peers.  (Historically,
this has been encouraged by the fact that a lot of the desktop machines
ran "operating systems" which couldn't walk and chew gum simultaneously.)
There is no reason why running a server on a desktop machine should be
considered inherently peculiar.  Desktops are not second-class machines.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 00:49:33 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 20:49:33 -0400
Subject: OpenGL screensaver methods?
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.2.20030921121902.009ec130-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.1.1.2.20030921121902.009ec130@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030921204933.3b617016.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Sun, 21 Sep 2003 12:22:16 -0400
Elliott Chapin <echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I've written an OpenGL screensaver for Windows and would like to port it to 
> Linux, so I'm hoping someone can tell me where to find Linux source code 
> for an OpenGL screensaver.
> 
> Thanks ...
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
> 
> 
> 
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Elliot,

    Look for xlockmore on the internet.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From bakerja-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 01:07:39 2003
From: bakerja-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker)
Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 21:07:39 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd:Netscape lock & purge]]
References: <3F62C57F.339067E2@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F6E4B5B.4040604@sympatico.ca>

My bookmark file and lock file are in 
/home/<user>/.mozilla/default/<some number>/

Jeremy Baker

Chris Aitken wrote:

>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [Fwd: [TLUG]: Netscape lock & purge]
> From:
> Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> Date:
> Sat, 23 Aug 2003 14:33:20 -0400
> To:
> tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>
>
>A third problem is that I can't import bookmarks from a saved copy on a
>floppy. I know that the linux version of Netscape doesn't have the
>'import bookmarks' (or somesuch), so I overwrote
>/home/chris/.netscape/bookmarks.html with the one from the floppy. I
>know the bookmarks are OK, because they are there when I issue,
>
>netscape /home/chris/.netscape/bookmarks.html
>
>It seems that my netscape is not looking there for the bookmarks. does
>this have something to do witht the lock file error I am getting?
>  
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject:
> [TLUG]: Netscape lock & purge
> From:
> Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> Date:
> Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:28:40 -0400
> To:
> tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>
>
>Netscape is giving the following error:
>
>"Netsacape has detected a /home/chris/.netscape/lock file..."
>
>It goes on to suggest I delete the offending file and restart Netscape.
>
>However, ls -a /home/chris/.netscape reveals no such file.
>
>The only out-of-the ordinary thing I've done recently is to load my
>saved mail from a backup after a recent re-image (instead of kissing
>my old mail goodbye as I usually do).
>
>Probelm 2 is that my Netscape mail reader won't delete the mail off the
>server even though I have selected 'When deleting a messge locally,
>remove it from the server' in the mail preferneces.
>
>I have to manually remove the email through webmail.
>
>Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
>Chris
>
>--
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>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>  
>


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From pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 14:25:26 2003
From: pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (dan braun)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:25:26 -0400
Subject: PegaSoft Dinner Meeting
Message-ID: <000101c38115$60b66b90$c864a8c0@teknix>

 
Did you have a good summer?  The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is
Wednesday, September 24, 2003 7:00-10:00 pm at the Swiss Chalet
restaurant, 234 Bloor Street W near St. George subway stop.
 
PegaSoft's Lucky 13th Anniversary. Ken discusses the Perl PageKit
module.  Also your shell games for our Summer
Programming Challenge are due prior to the meeting so polish 'em up.
 
 
 
_______________________________________________
Pegasoft-ca mailing list
Pegasoft-ca-d+y6Mpv4JkHws/BN/ZWQwgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org
http://test.cbbrowne.com/mailman/listinfo/pegasoft-ca_test.cbbrowne.com
 
 
--
Dan Braun - PegaSoft Canada / CityTV
danb.nospam-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org
 
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 15:58:39 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:58:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Workaround (don't laugh; it works)
In-Reply-To: <20030921193700.GB13220-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030921193700.GB13220@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309221142010.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

| From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org

|   It almost looks as if it *INSISTS* on a real live shell.  Here's what
| I get when using -i
| 
| bash: no job control in this shell
| No value for $TERM and no -T specified
| No value for $TERM and no -T specified
| sh: line 1: gettext: command not found
| No recipients were specified.

Apparently it doesn't work.

You are trying to trick an interactive command to be run from a
script.  Expect crap like this.  These messages might be from bash or
from mutt -- both will want TERM to be set.  You could set it to some
fictional value, say "ansi".

expect(1) is probably the best way to script an interactive command.
I think it uses ptys so that the interactive command feels right at
home.

I still suggest fetchmail is cleaner and simpler way to accomplish
your goal.

If mutt were a real UNIX application, it would probably not do pop3
itself.  Since it does, it should have a flag to do non-interactive
mail pick-up -- does it?  I don't see one in the manual.  Two strikes.
(I use pine which may sin the same ways, but I don't use it to pick up
mail.)

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 16:06:48 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 12:06:48 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
Message-ID: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Hi all,

  I've switched from Mozilla Mail to Ximian Evolution in order to gain a
better address book, scheduling and so forth. So far I really like it
except for two issues that I am hoping someone here has worked around. 

  First and biggest is I can't seem to set Evolution to leave a copy of
a message on the POP server -until- it is deleted locally. This is an
option that I have seen in just about every mail client and I have to
assume it exists in Evolution, too!

  Secondly, and this may be a bug, occasionally I will receive a message
and the font of the message will be "crushed" almost to a point of not
being readable. If I pretend to reply to the message then I can read it
properly and the same is true if I copy -> paste into a text editor but
that is cumbersome. I have played with the fonts but nothing seems to
effect these messages.

  FWIW I am running RH9. Thanks or any possible help!

PS - I would add a screen shot but I can't seem to find the screen
grabber that used to be in RH7.3... is there one in RH9 and if not can
anyone recommend one? Thanks too!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 16:15:53 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 12:15:53 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064246808.3818.47.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:06, Madison Kelly wrote:
<snip>
>   Secondly, and this may be a bug, occasionally I will receive a message
> and the font of the message will be "crushed" almost to a point of not
> being readable. If I pretend to reply to the message then I can read it
> properly and the same is true if I copy -> paste into a text editor but
> that is cumbersome. I have played with the fonts but nothing seems to
> effect these messages.
<snip>

I'm running into exactly the same problem on my debian box, but I
haven't seen the same thing in Gentoo.  On debian I'm running Evolution
1.0.5, while Gentoo is running 1.4.x (I think, I'll have to check) so it
may be something that's been fixed in more recent versions.  What
version are you running, Maddy?

Also, the problem of leaving mail on a server is what prompted me to
move to IMAP.  I now have a consistent mailbox accessible from anywhere.

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/

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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 15:37:57 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 11:37:57 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20030919194235.00ea20ec-cpI+UMyWUv9BDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <006201c37ed1$3f435db0$0200a8c0@viper> <3.0.3.32.20030919194235.00ea20ec@idirect.com>
Message-ID: <1064245077.3f6f175560a15@webmail.ksmultimedia.com>

Actually, I am two and a half hours north of Timmins, so it is the "real" 
north. And even if its not, it sure feels like it :)

Sid

Quoting Terrence Enger <tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org>:

> At 15:49 2003-09-19 -0400, "Erebus" <erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> >Was funny - I lived 14 hours drive from Toronto (in good weather). Now I
> >live in Mississauga and work with people who think that Barrie is in
> >Northern Ontario.
> 
> Ah, then you will like this one.
> 
> The last time I visited the CN tower, they had some photos
> mounted on the walls.  One of them was a picture of a float
> plane at a dock, fishing paraphenalia on the dock, trees in
> the background, and so forth.  All in all, a very pleasant
> picture indeed.  What still makes me laugh, years later, is
> the caption: "Canada's far north ... near Sudbury, Ontario."
> 
> Terry.
> 
> Still smirking.  And still, sorry to say,
> Available for contract programming.
> 
> 
> >
> >Frank (in Mississauga) (who now works in the stockroom of a store because
> he
> >can't find a job in IT)
> 
> 
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 




-------------------------------------------------
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 16:24:48 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 12:24:48 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064247353.6298.7.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:15, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:06, Madison Kelly wrote:
> <snip>
> >   Secondly, and this may be a bug, occasionally I will receive a message
> > and the font of the message will be "crushed" almost to a point of not
> > being readable. If I pretend to reply to the message then I can read it
> > properly and the same is true if I copy -> paste into a text editor but
> > that is cumbersome. I have played with the fonts but nothing seems to
> > effect these messages.
> <snip>
> 
> I'm running into exactly the same problem on my debian box, but I
> haven't seen the same thing in Gentoo.  On debian I'm running Evolution
> 1.0.5, while Gentoo is running 1.4.x (I think, I'll have to check) so it
> may be something that's been fixed in more recent versions.  What
> version are you running, Maddy?
> 
> Also, the problem of leaving mail on a server is what prompted me to
> move to IMAP.  I now have a consistent mailbox accessible from anywhere.
> 
> Kareem

Thanks for the reply, Kareen!

  I am running 1.2.2-5 so maybe an upgrade is in order. Can I ask, I am
almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
never considered but now you have piqued my interest!


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 16:35:11 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 12:35:11 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064247888.3818.53.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda> 
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:24, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, Kareen!
> 
>   I am running 1.2.2-5 so maybe an upgrade is in order. Can I ask, I am
> almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
> never considered but now you have piqued my interest!

I don't know much about the protocol itself, but the end result from a
user's perspective is essentially server-side vs. client-side storage. 
I know that both can be used for both purposes, but from what I've seen
IMAP is far more effective than POP3 at storing mail and synchronizing
to one or more clients for the same inbox.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/

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From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 16:57:15 2003
From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:57:15 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <3F6C9CC5.5030404-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6C9CC5.5030404@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221249170.1898544-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>


Hello,

Wonder if anyone has any suggestion?  I had a crash (probably
caused by overheating) after which I haven't been
able to login into Debian Linux.  When I try I get the error:
"-bash:error while loading shared libraries. libcurses.so.5 cannot open
shared object file: No such file or directory." (It allowed me to enter
user name and password but then wouldn't let me in.)

I have another installation of linux on a second partition which I was
able to log into. I tried using fsck -f on original root partition.
Although it fixed a number of errors, I still couldn't get through the
log-in prompt. Am I out of luck or is there anything else I can try to fix
it?

Alex

------------
Alex Maynard
Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
University of Toronto
150 St. George St., N304
Toronto ON M5S 3G7
Canada
e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org
tel: (416) 978-4358


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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 17:04:15 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles fourchet)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:04:15 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: OpenGL screensaver methods?
Message-ID: <20030922100416.26660.h013.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>

Personally, I would start with xscreensaver's source
code.  I do not know 
whether it would be the solution but at least it would
be a good start.

Gilles

Quoting Elliott Chapin <echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>:

> I've written an OpenGL screensaver for Windows and
would like to port it to 
> Linux, so I'm hoping someone can tell me where to
find Linux source code 
> for an OpenGL screensaver.
> 
> Thanks ...
> 
> 
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
> 
> 
> 
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http://tlug.ss.org
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80 columns
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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 17:06:25 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles fourchet)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 10:06:25 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: adsl connection
Message-ID: <20030922100625.26660.h013.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>

Thanks for the tip.

Unfortunately, in my case, it did not work.  I have
tried to start pppoe with 
an MTU of 536 (the lowest allowed) and a timeout of 120
sec.

Same problem.


Quoting John McGregor <mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>:

> I had a similar problem with Sympatico when I first
got it some years 
> ago. If you reduce your MTU setting down to 1480
(from 1500) you should 
> be fine. It may take a bit of trial and error to find
the optimum upper 
> limit for your particular set up.
> 
> John McGregor
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings:
http://tlug.ss.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 17:03:50 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:03:50 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221249170.1898544-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6C9CC5.5030404@rogers.com>
	<Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221249170.1898544-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20030922130350.507fb6c3.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:57:15 -0400
Alex Maynard <amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> When I try I get the error:
> "-bash:error while loading shared libraries. libcurses.so.5 cannot
> open shared object file: No such file or directory."

I've run into similar probs before and the way I always resolved it was
to reinstall the appropriate package. Now, I'm on Mandrake, but the
package management differs mainly in the commands so it should be
something like:

apt-get install [packagename]

I did:

[joehill at node1:~]>$rpm -qa | grep curses
ncurses-5.3-1.20030215.1mdk
libncurses5-5.3-1.20030215.1mdk
libncurses5-devel-5.3-1.20030215.1mdk

I believe that file should be included in one of the above packages,
probably the second, so try:

apt-get install libncurses

I did a google/linux search, but not much came up:

http://www.google.ca/linux?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=libcurses.so.5&btnG=Google+Search&meta=


-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The moss on the tree does not fear the talons of the hawk.
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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 17:16:38 2003
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:16:38 -0400
Subject: screen capture
Message-ID: <3F6F2E76.7030309@sympatico.ca>

KDE includes KSnapshot in its base install. You'll find it under 
'Graphics' which is a sub-menu of Multimedia.

HTH

John McGregor

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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 11:49:39 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:49:39 +0200
Subject: screen capture
In-Reply-To: <3F6F2E76.7030309-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6F2E76.7030309@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F6EE1D3.2030705@sympatico.ca>

John McGregor wrote:

> KDE includes KSnapshot in its base install. You'll find it under 
> 'Graphics' which is a sub-menu of Multimedia.
>
> HTH
>
> John McGregor
>
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
the GIMP also does a fine screenshot

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From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 17:52:42 2003
From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:52:42 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <20030922130350.507fb6c3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922130350.507fb6c3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>


Joe,

Thanks very much. Can I reinstall the package while running another
installation (e.g. from floppy or 2nd partition.)?  As it is now I can't
do anything from the original system because I can 't log in as root (or
as anyone else. Maybe this is like the chicken and the egg: could fix the
system if I could log in and could log in if I fix the system?)

I appreciate your help.

Alex

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:57:15 -0400
> Alex Maynard <amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > When I try I get the error:
> > "-bash:error while loading shared libraries. libcurses.so.5 cannot
> > open shared object file: No such file or directory."
>
> I've run into similar probs before and the way I always resolved it was
> to reinstall the appropriate package. Now, I'm on Mandrake, but the
> package management differs mainly in the commands so it should be
> something like:
>
> apt-get install [packagename]
>
> I did:
>
> [joehill at node1:~]>$rpm -qa | grep curses
> ncurses-5.3-1.20030215.1mdk
> libncurses5-5.3-1.20030215.1mdk
> libncurses5-devel-5.3-1.20030215.1mdk
>
> I believe that file should be included in one of the above packages,
> probably the second, so try:
>
> apt-get install libncurses
>
> I did a google/linux search, but not much came up:
>
> http://www.google.ca/linux?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=libcurses.so.5&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
>
>
> --
> JoeHill
> Registered Linux user #282046
> Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The moss on the tree does not fear the talons of the hawk.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

------------
Alex Maynard
Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
University of Toronto
150 St. George St., N304
Toronto ON M5S 3G7
Canada
e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org
tel: (416) 978-4358


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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 17:47:13 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:47:13 -0400
Subject: screen capture
Message-ID: <49fff4b6ac.4b6ac49fff@learn.senecac.on.ca>

> KDE includes KSnapshot in its base install. You'll find it under 
> 'Graphics' which is a sub-menu of Multimedia.

You can also try this from the command line:

import -window root export.jpg

Where, export.jpg is the name of the file you want to write.

I'm pretty sure that in RH 9.0, if you are under GNOME, and hold down
PRNTSCRN, then this gnome applet will come up. Try it out.

Teodor I.



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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 18:04:30 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:04:30 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064247353.6298.7.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <1064253869.16176.1.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:15, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:06, Madison Kelly wrote:
> <snip>
> >   Secondly, and this may be a bug, occasionally I will receive a message
> > and the font of the message will be "crushed" almost to a point of not
> > being readable. If I pretend to reply to the message then I can read it
> > properly and the same is true if I copy -> paste into a text editor but
> > that is cumbersome. I have played with the fonts but nothing seems to
> > effect these messages.
> <snip>
> 
> I'm running into exactly the same problem on my debian box, but I
> haven't seen the same thing in Gentoo.  On debian I'm running Evolution
> 1.0.5, while Gentoo is running 1.4.x (I think, I'll have to check) so it
> may be something that's been fixed in more recent versions.  What
> version are you running, Maddy?
> 
> Also, the problem of leaving mail on a server is what prompted me to
> move to IMAP.  I now have a consistent mailbox accessible from anywhere.
> 
> Kareem

Hey Kareem!

  Bingo, the upgrade to 1.4 fixed the font problem perfectly! Thanks a
lot for taking the time to reply; now I just need to figure out how best
to deal with the removal of unneeded e-mail from my server :).

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 18:21:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 14:21:09 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922130350.507fb6c3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20030922142109.3a368b6f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 13:52:42 -0400
Alex Maynard <amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Maybe this is like the chicken and the egg: could fix the
> system if I could log in and could log in if I fix the system?)
> 
> I appreciate your help.

Oooooh, good question...

try this:

you could *try* copying the file from one install to the other, assuming
the partition you wish to copy to is accessible, even as root.

on your good installation, do a:

locate libcurses.so.5

if it is not found, do an updatedb as root, then try again. It should
give you the proper location and such. I've done this successfully
before with two different *Mandrake* installations across the network,
but if you are copying between two different distros? Could spell
trouble, but then what have you got to lose, LOL!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By protracting life, we do not deduct one jot from the duration of
death.
		-- Titus Lucretius Carus
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 18:55:39 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 14:55:39 -0400
Subject: [Fwd: [u-u] SCO event :|]
In-Reply-To: <3F67D0B4.7040607-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c37ca9$7f57e5d0$6501a8c0@plex8>
	<3F67D0B4.7040607@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <lvsmmoslec.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> writes:
> > maybe you can ask evan
> > leibovitch of the linux professional institute why sco is still a platinum
> > sponsor of the lpi as described here:  http://www.lpi.org/en/home.html

Don't forget that Evan is a partner at Starnix.  This Circle of Evil [axis of
evil was taken] is not that large.  Very evil, though.


> > or, maybe you can ask matthew rice of starix fame if they are still "proud
> > to be a part of Caldera's growth" and are still "good friends" as shown
> > here: http://www.starnix.com/partners.html
> 
> Although the harshness of the phrasing troubles me, I would be curious about
> answers to these questions.

They promised us 10% of all Linux [not to be confused with GNU/Linux] sales
revenue in Canada.  So make certain that you pay those invoices when they
show up, guys.

As Tim mentioned, we haven't updated our web site in a couple of years.  When
we get around to it, I'll make certain that this confusion is cleared up.

Thanks,
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 19:15:34 2003
From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 15:15:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309221509280.17762@cthulhu.vetterli.dyndns.org>

On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Alex Maynard wrote:
> Thanks very much. Can I reinstall the package while running another
> installation (e.g. from floppy or 2nd partition.)?  As it is now I can't
> do anything from the original system because I can 't log in as root (or
> as anyone else. Maybe this is like the chicken and the egg: could fix the
> system if I could log in and could log in if I fix the system?)

Edit the first partition's /etc/passwd file to change the login shell from
/bin/bash to something that doesn't use the offending library (I like to
keep a statically linked copy of busybox around just for this sort of
thing).  You should then be able to log in.  Of course, if /bin/bash is
screwed, any scripts using /bin/bash will also be screwed.

THT
JV
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 20:20:40 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 16:20:40 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064253869.16176.1.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda> 
	<1064253869.16176.1.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1064262040.8852.52.camel@yoda>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 14:04, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hey Kareem!
> 
>   Bingo, the upgrade to 1.4 fixed the font problem perfectly! Thanks a
> lot for taking the time to reply; now I just need to figure out how best
> to deal with the removal of unneeded e-mail from my server :).

No problem Madison.  Glad I could contribute something useful to the
list :)

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/

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From jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 22:00:28 2003
From: jvetterli-zC6tqtfhjqE at public.gmane.org (John Vetterli)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:00:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309221509280.17762-S9ox3Mig+Mmp4PaaQD8HhSLkJAjfWD+zQH7oEaQurus@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309221509280.17762@cthulhu.vetterli.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309221759190.18382@cthulhu.vetterli.dyndns.org>

Sorry about posting twice, pine said the first time didn't work.

JV
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 21:59:11 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:59:11 -0400
Subject: Wireless Service for a small town
In-Reply-To: <1064245077.3f6f175560a15-2RFepEojUI3cp3tO7ijp/+wE3QwKrvby@public.gmane.org>
References: <006201c37ed1$3f435db0$0200a8c0@viper> <3.0.3.32.20030919194235.00ea20ec@idirect.com> <1064245077.3f6f175560a15@webmail.ksmultimedia.com>
Message-ID: <3F6F70AF.3030607@rogers.com>

Timmins???  That's way up near Orillia, isn't it?  ;-)


Sidney Shapiro wrote:
> Actually, I am two and a half hours north of Timmins, so it is the "real" 
> north. And even if its not, it sure feels like it :)
> 
> Sid
> 
> Quoting Terrence Enger <tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org>:
> 
> 
>>At 15:49 2003-09-19 -0400, "Erebus" <erebus-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>>
>>>Was funny - I lived 14 hours drive from Toronto (in good weather). Now I
>>>live in Mississauga and work with people who think that Barrie is in
>>>Northern Ontario.
>>
>>Ah, then you will like this one.
>>
>>The last time I visited the CN tower, they had some photos
>>mounted on the walls.  One of them was a picture of a float
>>plane at a dock, fishing paraphenalia on the dock, trees in
>>the background, and so forth.  All in all, a very pleasant
>>picture indeed.  What still makes me laugh, years later, is
>>the caption: "Canada's far north ... near Sudbury, Ontario."
>>
>>Terry.
>>
>>Still smirking.  And still, sorry to say,
>>Available for contract programming.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Frank (in Mississauga) (who now works in the stockroom of a store because
>>
>>he
>>
>>>can't find a job in IT)
>>
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------
> This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
> 
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 22:00:31 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:00:31 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <200309221800.31662.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 22 September 2003 13:52, Alex Maynard wrote:

> Thanks very much. Can I reinstall the package while running another
> installation (e.g. from floppy or 2nd partition.)?  As it is now I can't
> do anything from the original system because I can 't log in as root (or
> as anyone else. Maybe this is like the chicken and the egg: could fix the
> system if I could log in and could log in if I fix the system?)

I would assume that you have a few different shells installed try using 
something other than bash.

I would mount the drive in another system and then chroot into it something 
like this:

    chroot /debian/root/filesystem /bin/ash

This will get you into the root filesystem.  From there you will need to mount 
/var and /usr ... if you didn't make them separate partitions then you're 
fine.  Then reinstall libncurses5:

  apt-get install --reinstall libncurses5

See if bash works now by running /bin/bash ... if not rinse and repeat with 
whatever other problems you found.

If you installed debsums you'll be able to look for (some) other corrupted 
files with "debsums -c" ... a lot of Debian packages don't come with 
checksums unfortunately.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 22:03:47 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:03:47 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064247888.3818.53.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>	 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda> <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3F6F71C3.405@rogers.com>

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Can I ask, I am
> almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
> never considered but now you have piqued my interest!

With POP, the client software downloads the messages from the mail 
server and usually deletes them from the server.  This means that if you 
use more than one computer or mail client, your messages will not all 
appear in any system.  With IMAP, the messages stay on the server, 
though you can have local copies on the clients.  Because of this, you 
can read your mail from any computer or client and it will have all your 
messages.  I use IMAP on my main desktop system, and can access it from 
any of my computers and mail clients, even on my notebook via VPN or 
dial up.

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 22:58:21 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:58:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922130350.507fb6c3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <16067.216.138.194.32.1064271501.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Thanks very much. Can I reinstall the package while running another
> installation (e.g. from floppy or 2nd partition.)?  As it is now I can't
> do anything from the original system because I can 't log in as root (or
> as anyone else. Maybe this is like the chicken and the egg: could fix
> the system if I could log in and could log in if I fix the system?)

Alex, you need to login as root first. Fortunately, for most problems this
might be doable, it's called single (as opposed to multi-user) mode. If
you use grub to boot with, then edit the grub file so the line that has
the kernel instructions ends with the work single than boot with that. You
will be root without networking or most services available. You do,
however, need to be in front of a console at the machine to do this.
<snip>

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 23:22:14 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:22:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: adsl connection
In-Reply-To: <20030922100625.26660.h013.c009.wm-4xi/tfaRJV++TtN3LuOZE8GV+HDSZRyd8ZjxTxpiBLs@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922100625.26660.h013.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID: <16109.216.138.194.32.1064272934.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Thanks for the tip.
>
> Unfortunately, in my case, it did not work.  I have tried to start
> pppoe with an MTU of 536 (the lowest allowed) and a timeout of 120 sec.
>
> Same problem.

I guess one question that should be asked is have you tried to connect any
other system into this adsl connection? If so, how did things work. I have
yet to see an adsl connection that needs an MTU of less than 1450. Anyone
with a laptop should be able to connect in just a couple minutes if you
don't have another system handy.

Check out the layer one structure. I suspect you might have an issue
there. I've had Bell 'upgrade' my line and it completely fubared my
connection until they undid the upgrade.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 23:37:00 2003
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 19:37:00 -0400
Subject: POP3 vs IMAP answered. MAILDROP asked.
In-Reply-To: <1064248511.6298.12.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda> 
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> 
	<1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <1064273821.22915.74.camel@tsx2>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:35, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:24, Madison Kelly wrote:
> > Thanks for the reply, Kareen!
> > 
> >   I am running 1.2.2-5 so maybe an upgrade is in order. Can I ask, I am
> > almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
> > never considered but now you have piqued my interest!

Kareem wrote
> I don't know much about the protocol itself, but the end result from a
> user's perspective is essentially server-side vs. client-side storage. 
> I know that both can be used for both purposes, but from what I've seen
> IMAP is far more effective than POP3 at storing mail and synchronizing
> to one or more clients for the same inbox.
> Kareem

IMAP is a most elegant protocol. It is far better from what I've heard
and personally witnessed than POP3. (Its surprising lack of wider
acceptance may be due to ISP reluctance: Afterall, IMAP invites you to
leave messages on the server which ISPs probably don't relish.)

IMAP puts each message into its own file.
File locking problems don't happen.
Life is simpler.

For each folder, it constructs 3 sub-directories: tmp, new, cur

- "tmp" (as you might guess) is a temporary directory. New messages are
  first written to an individual file in "tmp". Once that task is done,
  the file is moved to the "new" directory.

- "new" is the directory that contains messages that the user hasn't
  seen yet. Once they have been seen, they are moved to the "cur" dir.

- "cur" is where a message file tends to live. Once there, the user
  could choose to delete it or move it elsewhere.

The files have rather long names, but are designed so that an "ls" will
show them in date order. Beyond that, the end of a filename hold
characters that indicate such things as "message flagged for deletion"
or "message flagged as read or not read"

One of the other beauties of IMAP is that moving files from one
directory to another or changing a file's name involves minimal I/O.

The 3 sub-dirs tmp,cur,new typically reside in a sub-dir called
"Maildir" which may contain little more than that.

However, if I have a folder called "lists" then Maildir will also have
another sub-dir called ".lists" (note leading dot). In sub-dir ".lists"
the structure is repeated, ie: 3 sub-dirs called tmp,cur,new

If I have a folder called "tlug" which is a sub-folder of "lists" then
Maildir will have such additional sub-dirs, which are
	.lists
	.lists.tlug

Note that .lists.tlug is a sub-dir of Maildir
      ie: .lists.tlug is NOT a sub-dir of Maildir/.lists

Rather than a traditional on-and-on hierarchy of sub-directories, things
are flatter, although not completely flat.

There will always be these sub-directories (ie: a depth of 2)
	-- Maildir
	------- Maildir/cur
	------- Maildir/new
	------- Maildir/tmp

Things could go deeper conceptually, but never physically deeper than a
sub-directory depth of 3. Even if you have folders and sub-folders and
sub-sub-folders, you won't go beyond that depth of 3

Physically, we never go more than 3 directories in depth
	--1--   --2--   --3-- 
	-- Maildir
	------- Maildir/cur
	------- Maildir/new
	------- Maildir/tmp
	------- Maildir.lists
	--------------- Maildir/.lists/cur
	--------------- Maildir/.lists/new
	--------------- Maildir/.lists/tmp
	------- Maildir/.lists.tlug
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug/cur
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug/new
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug/tmp
	------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003.
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003/cur
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003/new
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003/tmp
	------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003.july
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003.july/cur
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003.july/new
	--------------- Maildir/.lists.tlug.2003.july/tmp

Conceptually, we might go much deeper
"July"    is a sub-folder of "2003"
"2003"    is a sub-folder of "tlug"
"Tlug"    is a sub-folder of "lists"
"Lists"   is a sub-folder of "Maildir" (a.k.a. "INBOX")

I'm using
	- EXIM as my MTA
	- CourierIMAP (handles both POP & IMAP) message retrieval
	- SqWebMail (which loves CourierIMAP)
	- Maildrop (which also loves CourierIMAP) is my latest
	  challenge.

---- So much for today's contribution. Now for today's question ----

I'm trying to write MAILDROP support for 
	- "blacklists" and  "whiteFromLists"
	- allow a sender to put himself in a whiteFromLists by sending
	  a message with a predetermined code in the subject header
	- the ability to place (that's easy) after detecting user
	  preference (that's harder) that a message is be automatically
	  placed in a particular IMAP folder.

Maildrop does impressive things, but I wish it had more of Perl's power.

Does anyone have experience with such a scenario? 

-- 
-------------------------------------- Please do not respond in HTML
Alan Cohen alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org
voice: 416-783-9826
fax:   240-269-7457

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 23:33:55 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:33:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064247888.3818.53.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
        <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<snip>
> I am running 1.2.2-5 so maybe an upgrade is in order. Can I ask, I am
> almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
> never considered but now you have piqued my interest!

IMAP allows you to leave the mail on the server and read it from many
locations, or to access it over webmail.

POP stores the mail on the server until you download it to your client,
and you deal with it there. POP basically marries your mail to one
computer, or there are distribution issues to deal with.

IMAP was created to allow more flexibility to mail delivery, and it works.
For example, courier-imap has an option to share folders at the server
level. (I'm still trying to figure out a way to get that little trick to
work squirrelmail.)

HTH

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 23:52:39 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:52:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: POP3 vs IMAP answered. MAILDROP asked.
In-Reply-To: <1064273821.22915.74.camel-j6c/GIPBaSg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
        <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda>
        <1064273821.22915.74.camel@tsx2>
Message-ID: <16153.216.138.194.32.1064274759.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>



> IMAP puts each message into its own file.

Not quite. That's why we use maildir. uw-imapd uses some other broken
format, but maildir is above and beyond the est.

> File locking problems don't happen.

That's a product of the server functions and the maildir format.

> Life is simpler.
>
> For each folder, it constructs 3 sub-directories: tmp, new, cur

This is all Maildir related, not IMAP specific. There are many other
servers that use different mail storage formats.

> - "tmp" (as you might guess) is a temporary directory. New messages are
>   first written to an individual file in "tmp". Once that task is done,
<snip>
>
> ---- So much for today's contribution. Now for today's question ----
>
> I'm trying to write MAILDROP support for
> 	- "blacklists" and  "whiteFromLists"
> 	- allow a sender to put himself in a whiteFromLists by sending
> 	  a message with a predetermined code in the subject header

I've never heard of this being a function of maildrop. What does mailman use?

There are other auto-responder software out there too. Check sourceforge
and freshmeat, and phpbuilder.

> 	- the ability to place (that's easy) after detecting user
> 	  preference (that's harder) that a message is be automatically
> 	  placed in a particular IMAP folder.

Use procmail or maildrop for this.

>
> Maildrop does impressive things, but I wish it had more of Perl's power.
>
> Does anyone have experience with such a scenario?


-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


--
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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 00:32:12 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles fourchet)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:32:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: adsl connection
Message-ID: <20030922173215.19705.h002.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>

Hi Keith,

I did try with 3 different OSes (Debian, Win 2000, and
Win XP) on 3 different machines.  Same result.

With respect to the line, I understand that Bell
screwed up your line.  In my case, it is perhaps the
case but they did come last Friday to test everything
inside the house (included the connection from the LAN
cable attached to the modem) and they claimed that
everything was fine.

So I am pretty sure it is outside the house (or I am
really not lucky and my 3 machines with my 3 OSes are
all faulty).  I called the EOL support to explain them
everything I did and the call lasted 30 secondes: "Sir
either you want me to reopen the ticket to Bell or you
call tomorrow the Sales to get reimbursed."  Nice way
to do support.

Anyway, I guess that the only solution for me is to
return to this ... provider of Rogers.

Gilles
Quoting Keith Mastin <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org>:

> 
> > Thanks for the tip.
> >
> > Unfortunately, in my case, it did not work.  I have
tried to start
> > pppoe with an MTU of 536 (the lowest allowed) and a
timeout of 120 sec.
> >
> > Same problem.
> 
> I guess one question that should be asked is have you
tried to connect any
> other system into this adsl connection? If so, how
did things work. I have
> yet to see an adsl connection that needs an MTU of
less than 1450. Anyone
> with a laptop should be able to connect in just a
couple minutes if you
> don't have another system handy.
> 
> Check out the layer one structure. I suspect you
might have an issue
> there. I've had Bell 'upgrade' my line and it
completely fubared my
> connection until they undid the upgrade.
> 
> -- 
> Keith Mastin
> BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> Toronto, Canada
> (416)696 6070
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings:
http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below
80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 00:33:14 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 20:33:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: adsl connection
In-Reply-To: <20030922173215.19705.h002.c009.wm-4xi/tfaRJV++TtN3LuOZE8GV+HDSZRyd8ZjxTxpiBLs@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922173215.19705.h002.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID: <16227.216.138.194.32.1064277194.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Hi Keith,
>
> I did try with 3 different OSes (Debian, Win 2000, and
> Win XP) on 3 different machines.  Same result.
>
> With respect to the line, I understand that Bell
> screwed up your line.  In my case, it is perhaps the
> case but they did come last Friday to test everything
> inside the house (included the connection from the LAN
> cable attached to the modem) and they claimed that
> everything was fine.

Okay. Bad modem? Have you tried disconnecting every other phone device in
the house and running it solo?

If Bell was already there, then you have 2 options: the problem is between
your computers and the wall (modem) or on Bell's end at the CO, or the
copper is bad. They've tested the copper?

If it's at the CO switching modems won't fix the problem, and Bell will
have to look into it deeper.

> So I am pretty sure it is outside the house (or I am
> really not lucky and my 3 machines with my 3 OSes are
> all faulty).  I called the EOL support to explain them
> everything I did and the call lasted 30 secondes: "Sir
> either you want me to reopen the ticket to Bell or you
> call tomorrow the Sales to get reimbursed."  Nice way
> to do support.

I agree. Vote with your feet. One of the guys on the list is from EOL, he
might be interested to hear the details.

> Anyway, I guess that the only solution for me is to
> return to this ... provider of Rogers.

...rogers... *blink blink* ...that's drastic. I'm moving from dsl.ca to
iStop pretty soon here. As long as I can get to second level tech support
and get the options I need, I'm pretty easy to please.



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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 01:10:06 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles fourchet)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 18:10:06 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: adsl connection
Message-ID: <20030922181013.7509.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>

Actually, I did go to EOL and I have tested the modem
on one of their machine: it went flawlessly.

With respect to the wire, when bell came, they tested
the connection directly from the jack I am using but as
well from the LAN cable plugged in the modem (the guy
plugged the cable in a portable tester and said that it
was okay).   Therefore, I am assuming that the LAN
cable is okay, the modem is okay, the copper is okay
and the CO is okay (but with Bell, you never know).

I really would like to go with ADSL but I am afraid to
run into the same problem with another provider.  The
other solution for me would be to have Rogers while I
am fixing my connection.

Anyway, any other idea, Keith :-).

Thanks,

Gilles

Quoting Keith Mastin <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org>:

> 
> > Hi Keith,
> >
> > I did try with 3 different OSes (Debian, Win 2000,
and
> > Win XP) on 3 different machines.  Same result.
> >
> > With respect to the line, I understand that Bell
> > screwed up your line.  In my case, it is perhaps the
> > case but they did come last Friday to test
everything
> > inside the house (included the connection from the
LAN
> > cable attached to the modem) and they claimed that
> > everything was fine.
> 
> Okay. Bad modem? Have you tried disconnecting every
other phone device in
> the house and running it solo?
> 
> If Bell was already there, then you have 2 options:
the problem is between
> your computers and the wall (modem) or on Bell's end
at the CO, or the
> copper is bad. They've tested the copper?
> 
> If it's at the CO switching modems won't fix the
problem, and Bell will
> have to look into it deeper.
> 
> > So I am pretty sure it is outside the house (or I am
> > really not lucky and my 3 machines with my 3 OSes
are
> > all faulty).  I called the EOL support to explain
them
> > everything I did and the call lasted 30 secondes:
"Sir
> > either you want me to reopen the ticket to Bell or
you
> > call tomorrow the Sales to get reimbursed."  Nice
way
> > to do support.
> 
> I agree. Vote with your feet. One of the guys on the
list is from EOL, he
> might be interested to hear the details.
> 
> > Anyway, I guess that the only solution for me is to
> > return to this ... provider of Rogers.
> 
> ...rogers... *blink blink* ...that's drastic. I'm
moving from dsl.ca to
> iStop pretty soon here. As long as I can get to
second level tech support
> and get the options I need, I'm pretty easy to please.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings:
http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below
80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 01:31:05 2003
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: 22 Sep 2003 21:31:05 -0400
Subject: POP3 vs IMAP answered. MAILDROP asked.
In-Reply-To: <16153.216.138.194.32.1064274759.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda> <1064273821.22915.74.camel@tsx2> 
	<16153.216.138.194.32.1064274759.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <1064280665.22915.178.camel@tsx2>

Alan wrote
> > IMAP puts each message into its own file.
> > File locking problems don't happen.
> > Life is simpler.
> > For each folder, it constructs 3 sub-directories: tmp, new, cur

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 19:52, Keith Mastin wrote:
> Not quite. That's why we use maildir. uw-imapd uses some other broken
> format, but maildir is above and beyond the rest.
> This is all Maildir related, not IMAP specific. There are many other
> servers that use different mail storage formats.

Alan responds:
Woops. There I go again. I got into Courier-IMAP and Maildir format at
about the same time. And I tend to get them confused!

I guess it's better to say that I advocate Maildir format.

RE Alan saying that:
> > I'm trying to write MAILDROP support for
> > 	- "blacklists" and  "whiteFromLists"
> > 	- allow a sender to put himself in a whiteFromLists by sending
> > 	  a message with a predetermined code in the subject header

Keith commented that:
> I've never heard of this being a function of maildrop. What does mailman use?

Alan responds:
According to what I read about MAILDROP (and .MAILFILTER instructions)
it is possible to search for a pattern match between, say, records in a
"blacklist" file of patterns and what's actually in an email. According
to the doc, the relevant maildrop filter function is:

	lookup(expr,'filename','options')
    Read file for patterns:
	expr is any expression (eg: the "From:" address)
	filename is a name of a file containing a list of patterns.
	Return value is 1 or 0 indicating that 'expr' was found or not


> There are other auto-responder software out there too. Check sourceforge
> and freshmeat, and phpbuilder.

Yes, before re-inventing the wheel (again) I really should check those
sources.

> > 	- the ability to place (that's easy) after detecting user
> > 	  preference (that's harder) that a message is be automatically
> > 	  placed in a particular IMAP folder.
> 
> Use procmail or maildrop for this.

It seems that maildrop ONLY knows how to read a file containing patterns
of things that it can then search for in the email. 

I was hoping to keep BOTH the patterns & FOLDER-NAMES in the same file.
ie: "If you find this pattern, then store the message in this folder."
Records might look like:
	GARBAGE  friend-6zcLuMBsFRvQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
	TLUG     tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org

and my .mailfilter instructions would effectively say:

	"If the 'From:' is 'friend-6zcLuMBsFRvQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org' then store the message
	 in the Maildir folder whose name is '.GARBAGE'

	 If the 'From:' is 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' then store the message
	 in the Maildir folder whose name is '.TLUG'"

MAILFILER instructions do support the use of external commands. I may
have to go that route.


-- 
-------------------------------------- Please do not respond in HTML
Alan Cohen alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org
voice: 416-783-9826
fax:   240-269-7457

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 01:34:33 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:34:33 -0400
Subject: POP3 vs IMAP answered. MAILDROP asked.
In-Reply-To: <1064273821.22915.74.camel-j6c/GIPBaSg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda> <1064273821.22915.74.camel@tsx2>
Message-ID: <200309222134.33349.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 22 September 2003 19:37, Alan Cohen wrote:

> ---- So much for today's contribution. Now for today's question ----
>
> I'm trying to write MAILDROP support for
> 	- "blacklists" and  "whiteFromLists"
> 	- allow a sender to put himself in a whiteFromLists by sending
> 	  a message with a predetermined code in the subject header
> 	- the ability to place (that's easy) after detecting user
> 	  preference (that's harder) that a message is be automatically
> 	  placed in a particular IMAP folder.
>
> Maildrop does impressive things, but I wish it had more of Perl's power.
>
> Does anyone have experience with such a scenario?

Never used maildrop but if you're looking for filtering in perl you might want 
to look at Mail::Audit ... I used it for a while before I decided to go back 
to procmail.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 02:46:46 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 22:46:46 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <3F6F71C3.405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	 <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>  <3F6F71C3.405@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Is there a way to tell the IMAP server though to kill a message somehow?
I imagine there must be otherwise space would be chewed through in a
hurry. Is IMAP something like a web front-end, by chance?

Madison

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 18:03, James Knott wrote:
> Madison Kelly wrote:
> > Can I ask, I am
> > almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
> > never considered but now you have piqued my interest!
> 
> With POP, the client software downloads the messages from the mail 
> server and usually deletes them from the server.  This means that if you 
> use more than one computer or mail client, your messages will not all 
> appear in any system.  With IMAP, the messages stay on the server, 
> though you can have local copies on the clients.  Because of this, you 
> can read your mail from any computer or client and it will have all your 
> messages.  I use IMAP on my main desktop system, and can access it from 
> any of my computers and mail clients, even on my notebook via VPN or 
> dial up.
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 13:13:38 2003
From: pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (dan braun)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 09:13:38 -0400
Subject: [Pegasoft-ca] One day warning
Message-ID: <000601c381d4$837ef010$c864a8c0@teknix>

-----Original Message-----
From: Pegasoft-ca-bounces-d+y6Mpv4JkHws/BN/ZWQwgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org
[mailto:Pegasoft-ca-bounces-d+y6Mpv4JkHws/BN/ZWQwgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of
kburtch-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 9:08 AM
To: pegasoft-ca-d+y6Mpv4JkHws/BN/ZWQwgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org
Subject: [Pegasoft-ca] One day warning


The dinner meeting is tomorrow at 7:00 pm.  Let me know if you're coming
so I can book the table.

KB


_______________________________________________
Pegasoft-ca mailing list
Pegasoft-ca-d+y6Mpv4JkHws/BN/ZWQwgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org
http://test.cbbrowne.com/mailman/listinfo/pegasoft-ca_test.cbbrowne.com


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 13:22:37 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 09:22:37 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064285206.16176.4.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>  <3F6F71C3.405@rogers.com> 
	<1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1064323358.1997.7.camel@yoda>

IIRC IMAP allows a few different ways of killing messages.  The most
common that I've seen is to mark a message for deletion, then later all
marked messages can be purged.

There are a number web front-ends for IMAP. I use SquirrelMail ( see
<http://squirrelmail.org> )  though I'm sure other people on the list
can suggest many others.

Kareem


On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 22:46, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Is there a way to tell the IMAP server though to kill a message somehow?
> I imagine there must be otherwise space would be chewed through in a
> hurry. Is IMAP something like a web front-end, by chance?
> 
> Madison
> 
> On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 18:03, James Knott wrote:
> > Madison Kelly wrote:
> > > Can I ask, I am
> > > almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
> > > never considered but now you have piqued my interest!
> > 
> > With POP, the client software downloads the messages from the mail 
> > server and usually deletes them from the server.  This means that if you 
> > use more than one computer or mail client, your messages will not all 
> > appear in any system.  With IMAP, the messages stay on the server, 
> > though you can have local copies on the clients.  Because of this, you 
> > can read your mail from any computer or client and it will have all your 
> > messages.  I use IMAP on my main desktop system, and can access it from 
> > any of my computers and mail clients, even on my notebook via VPN or 
> > dial up.
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> -- 
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Madison Kelly
> 416-208-0146
> mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/

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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 14:11:03 2003
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 10:11:03 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064285206.16176.4.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>  <3F6F71C3.405@rogers.com> 
	<1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1064326263.26413.46.camel@tsx2>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 22:46, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Is there a way to tell the IMAP server though to kill a message somehow?
> I imagine there must be otherwise space would be chewed through in a
> hurry.

Mail quota systems can be put in place.

With Maildir format, since messages are individual files, a cron job
could remove old files (an easier task than with other single-file
formats)

> Is IMAP something like a web front-end, by chance?

IMAP is an email reception protocol (IMAP/143 vs POP3/110)
Various email readers have IMAP-Client capabilities built into them.

As far as a "web front-end" is concerned, here's something of a
definition:
	- Imagine an IMAP client that runs on the server.
	- Now imagine a sophisticated CGI program that's fired off by a
	  browser contacting a web-server
	- That CGI talks to the IMAP client on one side and the browser
	  on the other side.

Courier-IMAP and SqWebMail is a great combination that together address
the web front-end thing.

See http://www.inter7.com for discussions on Courier-IMAP, SqWebMail and
Maildrop all of which understand the same set of extended Maildir
capabilities.

-- 
-------------------------------------- Please do not respond in HTML
Alan Cohen alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org
voice: 416-783-9826
fax:   240-269-7457

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 14:20:35 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:20:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064285206.16176.4.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
        <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <3F6F71C3.405@rogers.com>
        <1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <17043.216.138.194.32.1064326835.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Is there a way to tell the IMAP server though to kill a message somehow?

... it's called delete... :)

> I imagine there must be otherwise space would be chewed through in a
> hurry. Is IMAP something like a web front-end, by chance?

No, but because the mail is read from the server it allows for web front
ends (doing a web front end for a system that distributes mail via POP3 is
difficult for obvious reasons).

The space considerations you mention do need to be accounted for,
otherwise some clown (my son, for example) sending mp3s to all his buddies
can bring a system down pretty fast, yup. doing the math though, I get a
huge amount of email and in over a year it barely noses over 50MB (no
attachments), so space management is not difficult.



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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 14:35:40 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 10:35:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: adsl connection
In-Reply-To: <20030922181013.7509.h001.c009.wm-4xi/tfaRJV++TtN3LuOZE8GV+HDSZRyd8ZjxTxpiBLs@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922181013.7509.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID: <17075.216.138.194.32.1064327740.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Actually, I did go to EOL and I have tested the modem
> on one of their machine: it went flawlessly.
>
> With respect to the wire, when bell came, they tested
> the connection directly from the jack I am using but as
> well from the LAN cable plugged in the modem (the guy
> plugged the cable in a portable tester and said that it
> was okay).   Therefore, I am assuming that the LAN
> cable is okay, the modem is okay, the copper is okay
> and the CO is okay (but with Bell, you never know).
>
> I really would like to go with ADSL but I am afraid to
> run into the same problem with another provider.  The
> other solution for me would be to have Rogers while I
> am fixing my connection.
>
> Anyway, any other idea, Keith :-).

Well, the last thing on my list of things to check, unfortunately, is the
distance from the demarcation point to the CO. You could be getting some
signal degradation caused by distance, in which case without a repeater
you are SOL.

For Bell to open a trouble ticket at the CO level it needs to be initiated
by the customer, in this case EOL. If their tech support won't go up a
level then I would say it's time to collect the refund and move on. If you
take this info to one of the other adsl vendors you might get some action
on it.


-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 15:05:16 2003
From: sergey.kuznetsov-SuVT4Wdm/UHQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Serge Kuznetsov)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 11:05:16 -0400
Subject: POP3 vs IMAP answered. MAILDROP asked.
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com><1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda> <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda> <1064273821.22915.74.camel@tsx2>
Message-ID: <005901c381e4$190dfea0$9c094d8e@wcom.ca>
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 17:19:00 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 13:19:00 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064248511.6298.12.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	 <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <1064337539.11687.6.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:35, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 12:24, Madison Kelly wrote:
> > Thanks for the reply, Kareen!
> > 
> >   I am running 1.2.2-5 so maybe an upgrade is in order. Can I ask, I am
> > almost ashamed to ask how IMAP differs from POP but it is something I
> > never considered but now you have piqued my interest!
> 
> I don't know much about the protocol itself, but the end result from a
> user's perspective is essentially server-side vs. client-side storage. 
> I know that both can be used for both purposes, but from what I've seen
> IMAP is far more effective than POP3 at storing mail and synchronizing
> to one or more clients for the same inbox.

The developer's of evo are the 1st to admit that it's IMAP client
implementation is lacking.  Improving it does not seem to be a priority.

For many it is good enough, but for some (seems dependent on IMAP server
software and volume of email) it makes evo unusable -- supposedly kmail
has a good implementation.  Check the Ximian Evolution List
<evolution-YszlSufgerXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> for more details.

Cheers,
Lloyd

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 16:53:05 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 19:53:05 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>       
 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>        <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
 <16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 22 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
> POP stores the mail on the server until you download it to your client,
> and you deal with it there. POP basically marries your mail to one
> computer, or there are distribution issues to deal with.

I do not aggree. I have had POP3 servers store my messages sometimes for
months. I simply do not delete them, and I can access them from any email
client.  Then I can delete them from one of the clients when I like. This
implies that all POP3 clients I use are disciplined (they are) and the
server works flawlessly (it does).

The problem I see with IMAP is the number of files and directories, and
the difficulty with intrusion detection etc (system keeps changing all the
time).  No major ISP will likely run IMAP unless they make a server that
uses a database as a backend imho.

Peter


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 17:47:06 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 13:47:06 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064337539.11687.6.camel-C5Qn8pvFeXd9eUcvBT9MJMxtgHpCUUYS@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda> 
	<1064337539.11687.6.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <1064339227.601.1.camel@yoda>

On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 13:19, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> The developer's of evo are the 1st to admit that it's IMAP client
> implementation is lacking.  Improving it does not seem to be a priority.
> 
> For many it is good enough, but for some (seems dependent on IMAP server
> software and volume of email) it makes evo unusable -- supposedly kmail
> has a good implementation.  Check the Ximian Evolution List
> <evolution-YszlSufgerXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> for more details.

Thanks for the tip Lloyd.  I'd noticed some oddness with evolution's
imap, but nothing major (the small font problem's been the worst so
far).  How are the KOffice tools at handling the rest of Evolutions
functionality, e.g. schedule and contacts, synchronization to a palm
etc.?

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 17:52:06 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 13:52:06 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>       
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>       
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> 
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <1064339526.601.7.camel@yoda>

On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 12:53, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> I do not aggree. I have had POP3 servers store my messages sometimes for
> months. I simply do not delete them, and I can access them from any email
> client.  Then I can delete them from one of the clients when I like. This
> implies that all POP3 clients I use are disciplined (they are) and the
> server works flawlessly (it does).

I've seen POP3 work and not work in different situations.  The
University of Waterloo had Endymion Mailman set up for the longest time
on their mail server to access mail through POP, and it worked well
enough for most students.  I tried doing the same with an ICAN account
once upon a year with a number of clients to little success.

> The problem I see with IMAP is the number of files and directories, and
> the difficulty with intrusion detection etc (system keeps changing all the
> time).  No major ISP will likely run IMAP unless they make a server that
> uses a database as a backend imho.

As usual, this is a tradeoff.  The design of maildir is such that file
locking is no longer an issue, so (almost) any screwup of the mailbox
won't result in lost email.  Yes there are more files, but each file
contains less information, is less critical, and has less activity.  It
comes down to a design decision:  one big file that has everything, or
lots of little files, each of which are non-critical?

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 18:03:44 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:03:44 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064339227.601.1.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	 <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda>
	 <1064337539.11687.6.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>
	 <1064339227.601.1.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <1064340223.11689.23.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>

On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 13:47, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-09-23 at 13:19, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> > The developer's of evo are the 1st to admit that it's IMAP client
> > implementation is lacking.  Improving it does not seem to be a priority.
> > 
> > For many it is good enough, but for some (seems dependent on IMAP server
> > software and volume of email) it makes evo unusable -- supposedly kmail
> > has a good implementation.  Check the Ximian Evolution List
> > <evolution-YszlSufgerXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> for more details.
> 
> Thanks for the tip Lloyd.  

> I'd noticed some oddness with evolution's
> imap, but nothing major (the small font problem's been the worst so
> far).
If I recall correctly -- though I never experienced it -- that font
problem (evo choosing the 1st font listed) was not specific to IMAP.

Not related to IMAP, but the 1.4 release is still stabilizing -- there
are quite a few things that seem like they will be resolved in 1.4.5. 
(I am not on a platform with a Red-carpet's Evolution 1.4 snapshot
available).

> How are the KOffice tools at handling the rest of Evolutions
> functionality, e.g. schedule and contacts, synchronization to a palm
> etc.?
Don't know, I suffer ;-) with evo.  It would surprise me if they do not
do at least as good of a job.

Go nome or go home,
Lloyd

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 18:17:40 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 14:17:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
        <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <62281.64.228.103.43.1064341060.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> The problem I see with IMAP is the number of files and directories, and
> the difficulty with intrusion detection etc (system keeps changing all
> the time).  No major ISP will likely run IMAP unless they make a server
> that uses a database as a backend imho.

Number of files and directories, I could see being an issue eventually.
Intrusion detection is not an issue though. What vulnerabilities are you
thinking of?

Generally, I try not to run tripwire on the mail files. :)



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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 19:04:56 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:04:56 -0400
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
Message-ID: <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net>

I'm moving to Europe for a year. I want to buy a laptop to use for multi 
track music recording and I want to take it with me. I don't want 
Windows to come with the laptop- I'd rather use the 500 bucks to buy an 
external sound card like the Extigy. Foremast in my mind is 
international warranty and support. Anyone out there have any experience 
with any of this? Maybe email off-list.

Chris

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 19:10:04 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:10:04 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <16067.216.138.194.32.1064271501.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922130350.507fb6c3.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca> <16067.216.138.194.32.1064271501.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20030923191003.GB13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 06:58:21PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote:
> Alex, you need to login as root first. Fortunately, for most problems this
> might be doable, it's called single (as opposed to multi-user) mode. If
> you use grub to boot with, then edit the grub file so the line that has
> the kernel instructions ends with the work single than boot with that. You
> will be root without networking or most services available. You do,
> however, need to be in front of a console at the machine to do this.
> <snip>

Single doesn't help if it uses bash.  If you have something like sash
installed, the sashroot account has no library dependancies at all, and
has ln, mv ls and such all built in so you can repair the system.

Single unfortunately still assumes your shell has the needed libs.

Lennart Sorensen
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 19:34:47 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:34:47 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <62281.64.228.103.43.1064341060.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>       
 <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>        <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>   
     <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <62281.64.228.103.43.1064341060.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232227510.2853@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > The problem I see with IMAP is the number of files and directories, and
> > the difficulty with intrusion detection etc (system keeps changing all
> > the time).  No major ISP will likely run IMAP unless they make a server
> > that uses a database as a backend imho.
>
> Number of files and directories, I could see being an issue eventually.
> Intrusion detection is not an issue though. What vulnerabilities are you
> thinking of?

F.ex. 10,000 tiny little files for 3000 emails belonging to only 5 or 6
people, and a virus checker that runs on the server every X minutes. Every
time the files move the virus checker sees a 'new' file to check. Ouch.

> Generally, I try not to run tripwire on the mail files. :)

No, but seeing the file count or directory count jump up or down by
thousands at a time every day on a supposedly secure and low volume server
is not my idea of fun.

I think that this can be solved by putting the mail in a database and
running an IMAP daemon that manipulates this database through some
middleware (that does not exist afaik). Unlike what others said a database
is not 'one big file', it's an oganized and optimized big file or
volume(s), and locking problems are non-existant (or solidly solved). The
database would have to be *solid* to trust it with all user (and your own)
mail all the time (including during crashes power outages and H. Acker
attacks). Afaik such a thing does not exist to date.

Peter

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 19:46:42 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:46:42 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <20030923191003.GB13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922130350.507fb6c3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309221348460.1920916-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
 <16067.216.138.194.32.1064271501.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <20030923191003.GB13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232243590.2853@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> Single unfortunately still assumes your shell has the needed libs.

So try to login using sash as shell (specified on the kernel command line
in single mode). Read the sash manpage first, some things are different in
sash.

Peter
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 19:59:39 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 15:59:39 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232227510.2853-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda> <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <62281.64.228.103.43.1064341060.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232227510.2853@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20030923195939.GC13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 10:34:47PM +0300, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> F.ex. 10,000 tiny little files for 3000 emails belonging to only 5 or 6
> people, and a virus checker that runs on the server every X minutes. Every
> time the files move the virus checker sees a 'new' file to check. Ouch.

Where ever does this come into play with IMAP?  It is just another
protocol like pop for letting clients access their email.  It does not
change in any way the way the mail is stored on the server.

Perhaps you are thinking of mbox vs. Maildir format.

Not at all the same thing.

IMAP is wonderful ad should be used everywhere, and yes there are ISP's
who offer IMAP to their clients.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 20:16:03 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 16:16:03 -0400
Subject: POP3 vs IMAP answered. MAILDROP asked.
In-Reply-To: <1064273821.22915.74.camel-j6c/GIPBaSg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda> <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <1064248511.6298.12.camel@yoda> <1064273821.22915.74.camel@tsx2>
Message-ID: <20030923201603.GD13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 07:37:00PM -0400, Alan Cohen wrote:
> IMAP is a most elegant protocol. It is far better from what I've heard
> and personally witnessed than POP3. (Its surprising lack of wider
> acceptance may be due to ISP reluctance: Afterall, IMAP invites you to
> leave messages on the server which ISPs probably don't relish.)

True, although some do offer imap accounts now.

> IMAP puts each message into its own file.

No, Maildir does, IMAP has nothing to do with how mail is stored.
UW-IMAP works with both mbox and Maildir (although its Maildir support
is terrible and broken.)  Courier works only with Maildir, although many
mail server's can deal with that.  I am sure there are other mbox
capable imap servers too.

Lennart Sorensen
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From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 22:39:15 2003
From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 18:39:15 -0400
Subject: adsl connection
In-Reply-To: <20030922181013.7509.h001.c009.wm-4xi/tfaRJV++TtN3LuOZE8GV+HDSZRyd8ZjxTxpiBLs@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030922181013.7509.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID: <200309231839.15267.jmyshrall@golden.net>

On September 22, 2003 09:10 pm, gilles fourchet wrote:
> Actually, I did go to EOL and I have tested the modem
> on one of their machine: it went flawlessly.
>
> With respect to the wire, when bell came, they tested
> the connection directly from the jack I am using but as
> well from the LAN cable plugged in the modem (the guy
> plugged the cable in a portable tester and said that it
> was okay).   Therefore, I am assuming that the LAN
> cable is okay, the modem is okay, the copper is okay
> and the CO is okay (but with Bell, you never know).
>
> I really would like to go with ADSL but I am afraid to
> run into the same problem with another provider.  The
> other solution for me would be to have Rogers while I
> am fixing my connection.
>
> Anyway, any other idea, Keith :-).
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gilles
>
<snip>

Do you have an alarm connection at your home ?  I encountered a similar 
problem in Etobicoke. I had to install a special filter on the phone line 
going into the alarm box. Problem solved. 

John 
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 00:58:36 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 20:58:36 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <17043.216.138.194.32.1064326835.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <17043.216.138.194.32.1064326835.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <200309232058.36386.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 23 September 2003 10:20, Keith Mastin wrote:

> > I imagine there must be otherwise space would be chewed through in a
> > hurry. Is IMAP something like a web front-end, by chance?
>
> No, but because the mail is read from the server it allows for web front
> ends (doing a web front end for a system that distributes mail via POP3 is
> difficult for obvious reasons).

I disagree, it's always bugged me that there aren't more web front ends for 
pop.  IMO, it's much easier to create a web front-end for pop3 than for imap.  
You only have to support a single folder (INBOX), and with 6 commands you 
have everything you need to do; USER, PASS, LIST, RETR, DELE and QUIT.

Years ago I used a pop3 web front end called atdot, not sure if it's still 
around.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 01:48:55 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 21:48:55 -0400
Subject: Unusual Quantities of Spam?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030919181737.6127A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030919181737.6127A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <200309232148.55371.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 19 September 2003 18:40, Henry Spencer wrote:

> A quick hack for getting this mess under control, if you are running a
> modern sendmail but are not currently running fancier filters...
>
> The line
>
> define(`confMAX_MESSAGE_SIZE', `140000')dnl
>
> in the m4 version of your sendmail configuration will produce the line
>
> O MaxMessageSize=140000

Great idea Henry.  I was away on Saturday and came back Sunday morning to find 
about 250 additional viruses in my inbox.  In two days I received well over 
500 of these.  Since setting my maximum message size to 140000 bytes I've 
bounced 439 emails.  In total, over the past 4-5 days I've been the target of 
about 140MB of this stuff.

And then there's all those faked bounce messages I am receiving ...

For those running postfix the recipe would be to add "message_size_limit = 
140000" to /etc/postfix/main.cf.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 02:27:38 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Sergey Semenyuk)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:27:38 -0400
Subject: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.
Message-ID: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0@winxp>

Hi everybody,

Earlier today I have spent bunch of time looking for something to
transfer most of services from NT server to Linux, and to be honest I
think I am able to do it, except for one: Exchange server. I found that
there is couple of products on the market, but none of them are easily
available (read open source). So, I thought, that maybe there is a good
reason to create one. Well, I expect several reactions, such as:
1) This is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life....
2) Do you want to invent a bike?
3) What don't you come up with something substantial and we will talk
about it?
4) So what?

In fact, my point is to see if there is any support for thins kind of
idea, and if there will be anybody that would be willing to contribute
(their skills) into it. Personally, I don't have much of Linux/Unix
programming experience, although I have some, and few people who know me
in the list might remember that I've started number of those "who dares
to deal with this" projects, and, if not certain circumstances that made
me switch my mind to some other things, they would be finished, and I
hope appreciated. Alas, most of them died on alpha/beta stage. 

I am willing to discuss my point further if I see some interest, and I
would like to turn this subject to a pointless discussion.

Thanks a bunch in advance.

Sergey

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 02:39:19 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:39:19 -0400
Subject: Advocacy in schools, volunteers?
Message-ID: <200309232239.21587.marc@lijour.net>

Hi

as a high-school teacher I could open the doors of my classroom to a 
communicative individual that knows Linux and that is enthousiastic in 
showing the hard stuff and the nice tricks we can perform with this 
plateform. Last year I invited a specialist in Java J2EE to give a little 
demo that was appreciated. Linux would be a great topic.

Some of these kids know a lot about hardware and software. Others have seen 
Linux only once from behind my shoulders. I would be great to get them on 
track. That would be nice if we have "an expert" coming.

I've seen some emails from Seneca staff, and other edu organisation. Would be 
nice to have you here!

Anybody interested in Linux and secondary schools, please contact me.

Regards,
Marc

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From tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 02:50:25 2003
From: tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 22:50:25 -0400
Subject: Using this list with Gmane
Message-ID: <bkr0ur$se4$1@sea.gmane.org>

The next time this list requires any major administrative change, please consider using GNU Mailman instead of majordomo.

GNU Mailman seems to be generally better (from the user perspective), but the particular reason I am mentioning it is that it works better with the Gmane news gateway (www.gmane.org).

Since this list is moderated I need to subscribe to it in order to post.  Mailman allows me to subscribe to the list but not receive messages.  This lets me view the list from gmane but still post (like a regular newsgroup).  This isn't possible with majordomo.

Thanks,
Tom.



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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 03:02:45 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:02:45 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
Message-ID: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>

Hello everyone,

I know this isn't exactly linux-related, but knowing how helpful 
everyone on this list is, I thought this would be a good place to ask.

I am involved in the CO-OP program at my school.  I am looking for a 
placement in the field of software development (i.e. programming).  My 
teacher has been unsuccessful so far at finding anything suitable. 
Therefore, I am trying to find something myself.  I can work in the 
mornings for 3 hours, preferably somewhere in Southern Etobicoke area 
(downtown core is fine too).  If anybody knows or works for a company 
that does software development and has had co-op students before or 
would be willing to try the program, please contact me off the list. 
Thanks.

For those who don't know what CO-OP is, it basically means that the 
student goes to work for some company, but the company doesn't pay him 
anything.  Instead he gets school credits and work experience.

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 04:27:30 2003
From: gregory.pleau-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gregory Pleau)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 00:27:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.
In-Reply-To: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0-kSN9fd7a3UY@public.gmane.org>
References: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0@winxp>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309240022210.2582-100000@gollum.gregorypleau.com>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Sergey Semenyuk wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> 
> Earlier today I have spent bunch of time looking for something to
> transfer most of services from NT server to Linux, and to be honest I
> think I am able to do it, except for one: Exchange server. I found that
> there is couple of products on the market, but none of them are easily
> available (read open source). So, I thought, that maybe there is a good
> reason to create one. Well, I expect several reactions, such as:
> 1) This is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life....
> 2) Do you want to invent a bike?
> 3) What don't you come up with something substantial and we will talk
> about it?
> 4) So what?
> 
> In fact, my point is to see if there is any support for thins kind of
> idea, and if there will be anybody that would be willing to contribute
> (their skills) into it. Personally, I don't have much of Linux/Unix
> programming experience, although I have some, and few people who know me
> in the list might remember that I've started number of those "who dares
> to deal with this" projects, and, if not certain circumstances that made
> me switch my mind to some other things, they would be finished, and I
> hope appreciated. Alas, most of them died on alpha/beta stage. 

Here's my $0.02
Look at Communigate Pro. It's not open source - I know. 
However the thing that -is- interesting is that they emulate
Exchange services - including shared contacts, tasks, etc.

They have support for Public/Private folders and user permissions.
Also Stalker (the company that makes it)  recommends it be run on 
a Linux server for best performance.

I know it uses sendmail for a chunk of it's processing.

The reason to look at it if making your own Exchange service for 
the open source world is their use of IMAP tricks to pull the 
whole thing off, and the little plugin for Outlook they wrote.

That's a starting point. 

Now for a really special treat - I'd really like to see a similar
plugin for Evolution. 

- Greg




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From tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 05:07:55 2003
From: tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:07:55 -0400
Subject: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.
References: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0@winxp>
Message-ID: <bkr90s$5hq$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Sergey Semenyuk" <serge_ss@??????)	??H??E
??{????> wrote in message news:002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0-0qjzcdkK6gM at public.gmane.org
> Hi everybody,
> 
> Earlier today I have spent bunch of time looking for something to
> transfer most of services from NT server to Linux, and to be honest I
> think I am able to do it, except for one: Exchange server. I found that
> there is couple of products on the market, but none of them are easily
> available (read open source). So, I thought, that maybe there is a good
> reason to create one. Well, I expect several reactions, such as:
> 1) This is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life....
> 2) Do you want to invent a bike?
> 3) What don't you come up with something substantial and we will talk
> about it?
> 4) So what?
> 
> In fact, my point is to see if there is any support for thins kind of
> idea, and if there will be anybody that would be willing to contribute
> (their skills) into it. Personally, I don't have much of Linux/Unix
> programming experience, although I have some, and few people who know me
> in the list might remember that I've started number of those "who dares
> to deal with this" projects, and, if not certain circumstances that made
> me switch my mind to some other things, they would be finished, and I
> hope appreciated. Alas, most of them died on alpha/beta stage. 
> 
> I am willing to discuss my point further if I see some interest, and I
> would like to turn this subject to a pointless discussion.
> 
> Thanks a bunch in advance.
> 
> Sergey

1) Writing a groupware server like Exchange is a huge undertaking, even if you employ some existing code.  If it is possible, I would suggest you find an existing project and contribute a piece to that.

2) See http://www.opengroupware.org/ (but I've heard that it's not really ready).

3) There are some good commercial groupware servers such as CommuniGate Pro.  I know that this does not meet your requirements, but it does (in my opinion) lessen the need to develop something new.

Tom.


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 05:14:48 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:14:48 -0400
Subject: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.
In-Reply-To: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0-kSN9fd7a3UY@public.gmane.org>
References: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0@winxp>
Message-ID: <3F712848.3050106@rogers.com>

Sergey Semenyuk wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> 
> Earlier today I have spent bunch of time looking for something to
> transfer most of services from NT server to Linux, and to be honest I
> think I am able to do it, except for one: Exchange server. I found that
> there is couple of products on the market, but none of them are easily
> available (read open source). So, I thought, that maybe there is a good
Yes, this one, for instance:

http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/openexchange/

It's $1,249, why did they call it "open"?

> reason to create one. Well, I expect several reactions, such as:
> 1) This is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life....
> 2) Do you want to invent a bike?
> 3) What don't you come up with something substantial and we will talk
> about it?
> 4) So what?
You are a little bit late :-). Check

http://www.opengroupware.org

 From their FAQ:
Q:Does OGo do exactly the same things like Exchange?
A: No. OGo is something between a mixture of Exchange and SharePoint 
portal server. It focuses on groupware and collaboration instead of 
messaging, e.g. OGo will not provide its own mail server but rather use 
existing ones like Cyrus (see the mission on that).

Anyway, I believe it must be able to replace Exchange after it's reach 
for a production level.

> In fact, my point is to see if there is any support for thins kind of
> idea, and if there will be anybody that would be willing to contribute
> (their skills) into it. Personally, I don't have much of Linux/Unix
> programming experience, although I have some, and few people who know me
> in the list might remember that I've started number of those "who dares
> to deal with this" projects, and, if not certain circumstances that made
> me switch my mind to some other things, they would be finished, and I
> hope appreciated. Alas, most of them died on alpha/beta stage. 

RIP :~-(

> I am willing to discuss my point further if I see some interest, and I
> would like to turn this subject to a pointless discussion.
> 
> Thanks a bunch in advance.
> 
> Sergey


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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 05:43:15 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 01:43:15 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <3F710955.6030409-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20030924054315.GA30518@anarchy.ca>

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 11:02:45PM -0400, Anton Markov wrote:
> For those who don't know what CO-OP is, it basically means that the 
> student goes to work for some company, but the company doesn't pay him 
> anything.  Instead he gets school credits and work experience.

Free labour!! Hope you have fun moving boxes around. ;)

-cgm.

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 10:59:35 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:59:35 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <20030924054315.GA30518-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030924054315.GA30518@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <3F717917.2090708@rogers.com>

Chris MacDonald wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 11:02:45PM -0400, Anton Markov wrote:
> 
>>For those who don't know what CO-OP is, it basically means that the 
>>student goes to work for some company, but the company doesn't pay him 
>>anything.  Instead he gets school credits and work experience.
> 
> 
> Free labour!! Hope you have fun moving boxes around. ;)

Actually, my employer had a co-op this past summer.  He did bench tech 
work, as was his goal.



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From Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 11:43:09 2003
From: Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:43:09 -0400
Subject: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.
Message-ID: <sf714b2b.055@netservice.tenet.com>

If a commercial package is of interest to you, Novell's GroupWise is now
available as both client and server software.

Alain

>>> IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org 24/09/2003 1:14:48 am >>>
Sergey Semenyuk wrote:

> Hi everybody,
> 
> Earlier today I have spent bunch of time looking for something to
> transfer most of services from NT server to Linux, and to be honest
I
> think I am able to do it, except for one: Exchange server. I found
that
> there is couple of products on the market, but none of them are
easily
> available (read open source). So, I thought, that maybe there is a
good
Yes, this one, for instance:

http://www.suse.com/us/business/products/openexchange/ 

It's $1,249, why did they call it "open"?

> reason to create one. Well, I expect several reactions, such as:
> 1) This is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life....
> 2) Do you want to invent a bike?
> 3) What don't you come up with something substantial and we will
talk
> about it?
> 4) So what?
You are a little bit late :-). Check

http://www.opengroupware.org 

 From their FAQ:
Q:Does OGo do exactly the same things like Exchange?
A: No. OGo is something between a mixture of Exchange and SharePoint 
portal server. It focuses on groupware and collaboration instead of 
messaging, e.g. OGo will not provide its own mail server but rather use

existing ones like Cyrus (see the mission on that).

Anyway, I believe it must be able to replace Exchange after it's reach

for a production level.

> In fact, my point is to see if there is any support for thins kind
of
> idea, and if there will be anybody that would be willing to
contribute
> (their skills) into it. Personally, I don't have much of Linux/Unix
> programming experience, although I have some, and few people who know
me
> in the list might remember that I've started number of those "who
dares
> to deal with this" projects, and, if not certain circumstances that
made
> me switch my mind to some other things, they would be finished, and
I
> hope appreciated. Alas, most of them died on alpha/beta stage. 

RIP :~-(

> I am willing to discuss my point further if I see some interest, and
I
> would like to turn this subject to a pointless discussion.
> 
> Thanks a bunch in advance.
> 
> Sergey


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From chiro-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 12:57:27 2003
From: chiro-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (chiro-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:57:27 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: co-op placement
Message-ID: <200309241256.h8OCue023299@server26.ilap.com>

anton markov:

we need someone to:
scan documents and link to web pages
basic programming for mail merge project
(we will teach you how)
design forms for mail merge
any other programming you think will help us 
to achieve even more streamlining of office
environment
we operate mixed linux/windows environment 
LAN/WAN, hylafax
this work is a junior co-op position we have 
been unable to fill

YOU WILL NOT BE MOVING BOXES!!!!

call me to discuss details 
dr. morton
416.222.6622


 

_____________________________________________________________
Connect to the Power of Business (tm) with ILAP. www.ilap.com


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From pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 13:27:28 2003
From: pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (dan braun)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:27:28 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <3F717917.2090708-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F717917.2090708@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <000001c3829f$9cff64e0$c864a8c0@teknix>

Hi,

That's not entirely true, typically High school Co-Op's do not get paid.
However, Collage and University Co-Op's do typically get paid.

Dan

--
Dan Braun - PegaSoft Canada / CityTV
danb.nospam-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org



Chris MacDonald wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 11:02:45PM -0400, Anton Markov wrote:
> 
>>For those who don't know what CO-OP is, it basically means that the 
>>student goes to work for some company, but the company doesn't pay him

>>anything.  Instead he gets school credits and work experience.
> 



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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 13:43:20 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:43:20 -0400
Subject: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
Message-ID: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost>

-----Forwarded Message-----
From: John Selmys <j.selmys-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
To: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:45:12 -0400

At the moment his talk will center around trends in open source. We
suggested that since the audience will be primarily
students that perhaps some discussion on open source re education may be
useful. Anyway he's doing this for free so 
basically he'll decide.

If I find out more, I'll let you know.

John
============= 


Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> Hi John,
> 
> Do you know what will be the topics of his talk?
> 
> Thank you,
> Lloyd
> 
> On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 00:20, Kareem Shehata wrote:
>   
> > Any idea what the topic of Bob's talk will be?
> > 
> > Kareem
> > 
> > On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 20:11, ln @post.com wrote:
> >     
> > > FYI - from the Seneca Linux club.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Re: -------- Original Message --------
> > > Re: Subject: Chairman of the Board
> > > Re: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400
> > > Re: From: "John Selmys" <John.Selmys-U9NDqb625Q+nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
> > > Re: To: linuxclub-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org, isa <isa at titanic.senecac.on.ca>
> > > 
> > > Re: Greetings Linux Fans,
> > > 
> > > Re:     It is with great pleasure that I announce an open talk by Robert 
> > > Re: Young, Chairman of RedHat, will take place here at Seneca on Wednesday, 
> > > Re: Oct 8, 2003. This coup was arranged by Praveen Mitera, the coordinator 
> > > Re: of our post-diploma database program. My understanding is that the 
> > > Re: speech will take place in the upper kelidoscope room (S2168) in the SEQ 
> > > Re: building starting at 3pm. Everyone is welcome. Tell your friends. Bring 
> > > Re: your parents!
> > > 
> > > Re: John
> > > Re: ps: If there are Questions/Answers at the end then come prepared with 
> > > Re: your questions.
> > >  ===============================================================
> > >       
>   
-- 
Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>

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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 14:15:17 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles fourchet)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:15:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: adsl connection
Message-ID: <20030924071522.29035.h001.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>

That's indeed a good one.  But it is not the case for
me.

I am definitely suspecting something weird like that. 
The problem is that it is always (almost) impossible to
detect and you have to run a bunch of tests in
different configurations to find one which is working
(without knowing why actually).

Gilles


Quoting John Myshrall <jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>:

> On September 22, 2003 09:10 pm, gilles fourchet wrote:
> > Actually, I did go to EOL and I have tested the
modem
> > on one of their machine: it went flawlessly.
> >
> > With respect to the wire, when bell came, they
tested
> > the connection directly from the jack I am using
but as
> > well from the LAN cable plugged in the modem (the
guy
> > plugged the cable in a portable tester and said
that it
> > was okay).   Therefore, I am assuming that the LAN
> > cable is okay, the modem is okay, the copper is okay
> > and the CO is okay (but with Bell, you never know).
> >
> > I really would like to go with ADSL but I am afraid
to
> > run into the same problem with another provider. 
The
> > other solution for me would be to have Rogers while
I
> > am fixing my connection.
> >
> > Anyway, any other idea, Keith :-).
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Gilles
> >
> <snip>
> 
> Do you have an alarm connection at your home ?  I
encountered a similar 
> problem in Etobicoke. I had to install a special
filter on the phone line 
> going into the alarm box. Problem solved. 
> 
> John 
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 14:15:39 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 10:15:39 -0400
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
In-Reply-To: <3F709958.1010708-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost>

At 03:04 PM 23/09/2003 -0400, Chris Aitken wrote:
>I'm moving to Europe for a year. I want to buy a laptop to use for multi 
>track music recording and I want to take it with me. I don't want Windows 
>to come with the laptop- I'd rather use the 500 bucks to buy an external 
>sound card like the Extigy. Foremast in my mind is international warranty 
>and support. Anyone out there have any experience with any of this? Maybe 
>email off-list.

IBM has international warranties and I can attest to the fact that they 
work. As for not having Windows on it, at one time, IBM used to sell 
laptops with Linux installed. I do not know if they still do that. I 
followed the recent thread about the Dell and Windows refund saga and some 
people were advocating off brand clone laptop manufacturers as possibly 
being more accommodating to selling bare machines. I have used and sold 
various brands of laptops and personally, I would not touch an off brand. 
Laptops are very proprietary so one is usually completely dependent upon 
the manufacturer for most spare parts. Some of the clones, like Eurocom for 
example, use desktop CPUs in order to have the fastest CPU. Desktop CPUs 
consume more energy and therefore run hotter. Hotter electronics in tight 
spaces usually leads to premature failures, though admittedly, this is a 
generalization. I have no idea what, if anything, Eurocom does to address 
this problem.

I stick to and recommend name brands like IBM, HP, and Compaq. Their prices 
are not that much higher, if at all, and I think they are better engineered 
and assembled. If you shop carefully and do not buy machines that are on 
the leading edge of the technology curve, you can often find pretty good 
deals. I put a premium on display (1600 x 1200 is very addictive), keyboard 
feel (IBM and HP have the best keyboards in the business), pointing device 
(I prefer the little eraser head pointing sticks though some laptops come 
with both track pads and eraser heads), disk capacity (you can never have 
enough), and RAM capacity (256M is a good starting point these days). I 
will not pay much of a premium for a faster CPU since virtually any new 
machine sold today is overkill for almost everyone.

One last point: I cannot imagine any OEM version of Windows that is likely 
to be running on a laptop costing anything close to $500. I would not be 
surprised if the "Windows Tax" was more in the $50 range for big brand 
products. Granted, $50 is not zero and one should not have to pay for 
something they do not use but I suspect that it is cheaper for the big 
brands to sell machines with Windows preloaded than it would be to sell 
bare machines. Variances from the norm cost money so it may very well be 
that one would have to pay more than $50 for the special handling that 
would be necessary to ship a bare machine, which takes us full circle. 
Lesser known brands might be more accommodating to special needs but I 
think you would pay for it down the road when it comes time to get service 
for the machine. Parts like RAM and hard disk are more or less standard but 
what would you do if the keyboard in your lovely ASUS laptop started acting 
up? I pick on ASUS in particular because we sold a few and regretted it. 
Support was pretty much non existent. Parts had to come in from California. 
The keyboards had to be replaced every few months because the pointing 
stick would get jumpy and eventually stop working altogether. Once the 
machines were out of warranty, which was a measly one year anyway, the 
users stopped using them as laptops and attached external keyboards and 
mice to them. Having to attach external keyboards and pointing devices 
defeats the purpose of having a laptop in the first place.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 14:14:55 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 10:14:55 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Oralux] Oralux in Ottawa
In-Reply-To: <20030921223617.1A4C879127-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030921223617.1A4C879127@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <1064412894.11266.81.camel@localhost.localdomain>

No one responded to this.

Oralux/Emacspeak aside, if any one here can be in Ottawa for the 7th-8th
and want to help represent open source software, or maybe make a pitch
for your FLOSS-oriented business to the feds, this sounds like the
chance.

BTW: I found this link to a Federal new technology showcase/demo
facility in Hull PQ featuring open source technologies

http://www.pwgsc.gc.ca/db/text/archives/2002/fall2002/article008-e.html

We need one of these in Toronto.


[Oralux stuff ... ]


 > > > ... the "Government Technology" (GTEC) trade
> > > show on 7-8 October in Ottawa, Canada, within the "Open Source Lab" section. I
> > > hope to have demos that address accessibility -- visual, mobility, and
> > > linguistic.  Do you have an Oralux team member anywhere near Ottawa?  If not,
> > > can you assist us as we prepare Joe, or somebody else, to demo Oralux?
> > > 
> > > Let talk asap.
> > > 
> > > Joseph (Jos?) Potvin
> > > Management Team Member, Enterprise Architecture
> > > Information Technology Standards, Architecture, and Security Sector
> > > Telecommunications & Informatics Program Branch (TIPB)
> > > Public Works and Government Services Canada (PWGSC)
> > > Government of Canada
> > > 11 Rue Laurier, Place du Portage, Phase III, 4th Floor (4A1)
> > > Gatineau (Hull), Quebec K1A 0S5
> > > (819) 956-8617 Voice
> > > (819) 956-8621 Fax
> > > joseph.potvin-Z9BKn1TQ3rIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
> > >   


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 15:00:36 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 11:00:36 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Re: [Oralux] Oralux in Ottawa
In-Reply-To: <1064412894.11266.81.camel-bi+AKbBUZKY6gyzm1THtWbp2dZbC/Bob@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030921223617.1A4C879127@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> 
	<1064412894.11266.81.camel@localhost.localdomain>
Message-ID: <1064415636.601.20.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 10:14, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> We need one of these in Toronto.

I concur.  I know a number of people who go back and forth to Ottawa all
the time, but I'm not one of them.  It makes sense for a government
exhibition to be there though... maybe we should set up some kind of an
Open-Source showcase in TO, or is there one already that I haven't heard
of?

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/

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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 14:57:07 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 09:57:07 -0500
Subject: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <1064411000.31787.8.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20030924145707.BA4C276E4D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

> From: John Selmys <j.selmys-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
> To: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:45:12 -0400
> 
> At the moment his talk will center around trends in open source. We
> suggested that since the audience will be primarily
> students that perhaps some discussion on open source re education may be
> useful. Anyway he's doing this for free so 
> basically he'll decide.
> 
> If I find out more, I'll let you know.

No doubt he'll talk about Fedora, the open source fork (?) of RedHat
Enterprise:

http://fedora.redhat.com/
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
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From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 15:37:30 2003
From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:30 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232243590.2853-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232243590.2853@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>


Thank you all so much for your help! Copying over the bad libraries from
the working distribution apparently did the trick.

Alex

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>
> > Single unfortunately still assumes your shell has the needed libs.
>
> So try to login using sash as shell (specified on the kernel command line
> in single mode). Read the sash manpage first, some things are different in
> sash.
>
> Peter
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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>

------------
Alex Maynard
Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
University of Toronto
150 St. George St., N304
Toronto ON M5S 3G7
Canada
e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org
tel: (416) 978-4358


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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 15:51:23 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:51:23 -0400
Subject: co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <200309241256.h8OCue023299-0tInGMXAv0fa0pkJTlbQzwC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309241256.h8OCue023299@server26.ilap.com>
Message-ID: <3F71BD7B.6050900@truxtar.com>

Thanks for the offer, but I just returned from an interview where I got 
a very similar placement (I know, I should have posted this request 
earlier, but I really didn't expect much from today's interview).

Thanks anyway; I'll keep you in mind if I ever find myself in a similar 
situation.

chiro-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:
> anton markov:
> 
> we need someone to:
> scan documents and link to web pages
> basic programming for mail merge project
> (we will teach you how)
> design forms for mail merge
> any other programming you think will help us 
> to achieve even more streamlining of office
> environment
> we operate mixed linux/windows environment 
> LAN/WAN, hylafax
> this work is a junior co-op position we have 
> been unable to fill
> 
> YOU WILL NOT BE MOVING BOXES!!!!
> 
> call me to discuss details 
> dr. morton
> 416.222.6622
> 
> 
>  
> 
> _____________________________________________________________
> Connect to the Power of Business (tm) with ILAP. www.ilap.com
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 15:54:46 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:54:46 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232243590.2853@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <20030924115446.67879195.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 11:37:30 -0400
Alex Maynard <amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Thank you all so much for your help! Copying over the bad libraries
> from the working distribution apparently did the trick.

I knew it would...really. ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your picture of the world often changes just before you get it into
focus.
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 16:09:24 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:09:24 -0400
Subject: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319106@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

What features of exchange server are you trying to  copy?

what information does your pulbic folders hold? Contacts? Calendars? Tasks? Everything under the sun?

Are you still using outlook as a client?

There are lots of groupware(opensource) solutions that you can employ, but any program that is supposed to replace exchange usually has a cost associated with it.

Go take look at http://www.billworkgroup.org/billworkgroup/home


-----Original Message-----
From: Sergey Semenyuk [mailto:serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 10:28 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.


Hi everybody,

Earlier today I have spent bunch of time looking for something to
transfer most of services from NT server to Linux, and to be honest I
think I am able to do it, except for one: Exchange server. I found that
there is couple of products on the market, but none of them are easily
available (read open source). So, I thought, that maybe there is a good
reason to create one. Well, I expect several reactions, such as:
1) This is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life....
2) Do you want to invent a bike?
3) What don't you come up with something substantial and we will talk
about it?
4) So what?

In fact, my point is to see if there is any support for thins kind of
idea, and if there will be anybody that would be willing to contribute
(their skills) into it. Personally, I don't have much of Linux/Unix
programming experience, although I have some, and few people who know me
in the list might remember that I've started number of those "who dares
to deal with this" projects, and, if not certain circumstances that made
me switch my mind to some other things, they would be finished, and I
hope appreciated. Alas, most of them died on alpha/beta stage. 

I am willing to discuss my point further if I see some interest, and I
would like to turn this subject to a pointless discussion.

Thanks a bunch in advance.

Sergey

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 16:03:56 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:03:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Just an idea, may be a stupid one.
In-Reply-To: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0-kSN9fd7a3UY@public.gmane.org>
References: <002a01c38243$6c9e9de0$0102a8c0@winxp>
Message-ID: <19340.216.138.194.32.1064419436.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


Hey Sergey,

> Hi everybody,
>
> Earlier today I have spent bunch of time looking for something to
> transfer most of services from NT server to Linux, and to be honest I
> think I am able to do it, except for one: Exchange server. I found that
> there is couple of products on the market, but none of them are easily
> available (read open source). So, I thought, that maybe there is a good
> reason to create one. Well, I expect several reactions, such as:
> 1) This is the most stupid thing I've heard in my life....
> 2) Do you want to invent a bike?
> 3) What don't you come up with something substantial and we will talk
> about it?
> 4) So what?

What functions of exchange do you want? Sorry, we can't yet duplicate the
'open to viruses and crackers' thing, but with some work, I'm sure it
could be accomplished. :)

The closest match so far (I think) is Ximian Evolution groupware desktop
sharing thingy. Or, you can keep your exhange server and access it
completely using the connector application.

You might want to take a look at squirrelmail. You can extend it's mail
features using shared addressbooks via LDAP and shared calendars, todo
lists and maybe even notes using plugins. You can deploy departmentally,
enterprise, LAN or publically. It's popular, pretty stable and has a great
support network.

If you're looking for something more exotic, search through sourceforge,
freshmeat and phpbuilder. There are some pretty advanced groupware
programs out there.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 16:14:32 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:14:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <200309232058.36386.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <17043.216.138.194.32.1064326835.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <200309232058.36386.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <19378.216.138.194.32.1064420072.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


>> > I imagine there must be otherwise space would be chewed through in a
>> hurry. Is IMAP something like a web front-end, by chance?
>>
>> No, but because the mail is read from the server it allows for web
>> front ends (doing a web front end for a system that distributes mail
>> via POP3 is difficult for obvious reasons).
>
> I disagree, it's always bugged me that there aren't more web front ends
> for  pop.  IMO, it's much easier to create a web front-end for pop3 than
> for imap.   You only have to support a single folder (INBOX), and with 6
> commands you  have everything you need to do; USER, PASS, LIST, RETR,
> DELE and QUIT.
>
> Years ago I used a pop3 web front end called atdot, not sure if it's
> still  around.

I said difficult, not impossible. :) I have one squirrelmail setup that
fetches mail from pop3 servers, and it wasn't that big of a hack. They're
working on the same for hotmail, yahoo, etc. at the moment. SM needs IMAP
to work though.

For a web-enabled pop client to work, the client would need to dl the mail
from the pop3 servers and distribute from a central location. I don't see
the advantage.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 16:33:23 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:33:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232227510.2853-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
        <1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <16128.216.138.194.32.1064273635.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309231947510.565@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
        <62281.64.228.103.43.1064341060.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309232227510.2853@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <19423.216.138.194.32.1064421203.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


>
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>>
>> > The problem I see with IMAP is the number of files and directories,
>> and the difficulty with intrusion detection etc (system keeps
>> changing all the time).  No major ISP will likely run IMAP unless
>> they make a server that uses a database as a backend imho.
>>
>> Number of files and directories, I could see being an issue
>> eventually. Intrusion detection is not an issue though. What
>> vulnerabilities are you thinking of?
>
> F.ex. 10,000 tiny little files for 3000 emails belonging to only 5 or 6
> people, and a virus checker that runs on the server every X minutes.
> Every time the files move the virus checker sees a 'new' file to check.
> Ouch.

The bottleneck on the file count is inode availability. You can increase
the number of inodes for the $USERHOMEs at the filesystem level when
building the server.

You're pulling the wrong chain with virus checking. It's a beast that
doesn't need to be done on the server. Filter the mail attachments for
executables. Voila', no more viruses.

>> Generally, I try not to run tripwire on the mail files. :)
>
> No, but seeing the file count or directory count jump up or down by
> thousands at a time every day on a supposedly secure and low volume
> server is not my idea of fun.

mmm.. I think you're sweating the wrong stuff, security wise. Altered file
counts are expected and shouldn't be an issue (unless $USERHOMES are on
the / filesystem?) on a mail server.

<snip>

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 16:37:46 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 12:37:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
In-Reply-To: <3F709958.1010708-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <19433.216.138.194.32.1064421466.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I'm moving to Europe for a year. I want to buy a laptop to use for multi
>  track music recording and I want to take it with me. I don't want
> Windows to come with the laptop- I'd rather use the 500 bucks to buy an
> external sound card like the Extigy. Foremast in my mind is
> international warranty and support. Anyone out there have any experience
>  with any of this? Maybe email off-list.

I just send a couple Sony Viao's to Indonesia. Warranties are
international. Take a modem/network pcmcia card with you.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 18:44:54 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:44:54 -0400
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
In-Reply-To: <19433.216.138.194.32.1064421466.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net> <19433.216.138.194.32.1064421466.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F71E626.6070007@rogers.com>

Keith Mastin wrote:
>>I'm moving to Europe for a year. I want to buy a laptop to use for multi
>> track music recording and I want to take it with me. I don't want
>>Windows to come with the laptop- I'd rather use the 500 bucks to buy an
>>external sound card like the Extigy. Foremast in my mind is
>>international warranty and support. Anyone out there have any experience
>> with any of this? Maybe email off-list.
> 
> 
> I just send a couple Sony Viao's to Indonesia. Warranties are
> international. Take a modem/network pcmcia card with you.
> 
Compaq has international warranties as well. But all these brand names 
come with Windoze preinstalled.  ASUS laptops I've seen didn't have OS 
at all, there was just a driver CD. But I don't think there are a lot of 
ASUS authorized service centres around the world. What I recommend is to 
buy a world-accessible-service machine like Sony or Compaq and apply for 
money back for the OS preinstalled due to disagreement with MS license :-)

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 18:54:28 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 14:54:28 -0400
Subject: Fedora vs. RHE
In-Reply-To: <20030924145707.BA4C276E4D-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost> <20030924145707.BA4C276E4D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <200309241330.37478.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 24 September 2003 10:57, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:

> No doubt he'll talk about Fedora, the open source fork (?) of RedHat
> Enterprise:

Although Redhat compares Fedora and RH Enterprise at 
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/rhel.html I don't think it's a fork of RH 
Enterprise.  It's more like a fork (or replacement?) for Redhat X.

Redhat says:

    A global steering committee at Red Hat decided that Red Hat Linux was
    suffering from too many compromises as a retail "product", and that we
    should redirect our efforts at creating a community-based project.

It will be interesting to see what their idea of a community based project is 
and how successfull they are at attracting outside help.  Will they get the 
support and volume of developers that Debian has?

Anyone know if there will continue to be a product called Redhat (as in RH7, 
RH8, RH9)?  Or will there be just RHE and Fedora?  I wouldn't see a point in 
continuing to make Redhat releases if they are maintaining Fedora.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 14 08:02:20 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Sun, 14 Sep 2003 04:02:20 -0400
Subject: Netscape lock & purge
References: <3F47B36F.9BEBFE30@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F64208C.675AB9FA@onlink.net>

I solved one problem - for some reason 'cp /mnt/floppy/bookmarks.html
/home/chris/.netscape/bookmarks.html' did not work. So, I deleted the
existing one first, *then* copied the one from the floppy and now the
bookmarks are OK.

The other two problems I'm having with Netscape (lock file error and
locally-deleted mail not deleting off server) persist. For the lock file
error problem, I tried renaming all the files in home/chris/.netscape
one-by-one and opening Netscape between each renmae to see the effect. By the
end of this I had...

.                               custom.dic.saved
plugin-list.saved
..                              history.dat.saved
popstate.saved
archive.saved          history.list.saved               preferences.js.saved
bookmarks.html.saved  key3.db.saved               registry.saved
cache.saved            liprefs.js.saved                  secmodule.db.saved
cert7.db.saved         nswrapper.copy_defs.saved   summary2.da.saved
cookies.saved          pab.na2.saved                   xover-cache.saved

I still got the lock file error.

Then I changed them all back to the original names (one-by-one again) and
fired up Netscape between each rename to see the effect (this time I got one
less error each time until Netscape was functional again).

For the problem of locally-deleted messages not deleting off the server,
I quadruple-checked that the pop3 server is set to 'Leave messages on server'
and 'When deleting messages locally, remove them from the server' [this
combination in the past has always removed messages from the server ony when
I delete them locally (and, yes, I make sure that I empty trash as well).]

So, two problems persist: lock file error, and locally-deleted mail  not
being removed from the server.

Chris

Chris Aitken wrote:

> A third problem is that I can't import bookmarks from a saved copy on a
> floppy. I know that the linux version of Netscape doesn't have the
> 'import bookmarks' (or somesuch), so I overwrote
> /home/chris/.netscape/bookmarks.html with the one from the floppy. I
> know the bookmarks are OK, because they are there when I issue,
>
> netscape /home/chris/.netscape/bookmarks.html
>
> It seems that my netscape is not looking there for the bookmarks. does
> this have something to do witht the lock file error I am getting?
>
>   ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: [TLUG]: Netscape lock & purge
> Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2003 03:28:40 -0400
> From: Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>
> Netscape is giving the following error:
>
> "Netsacape has detected a /home/chris/.netscape/lock file..."
>
> It goes on to suggest I delete the offending file and restart Netscape.
>
> However, ls -a /home/chris/.netscape reveals no such file.
>
> The only out-of-the ordinary thing I've done recently is to load my
> saved mail from a backup after a recent re-image (instead of kissing
> my old mail goodbye as I usually do).
>
> Probelm 2 is that my Netscape mail reader won't delete the mail off the
> server even though I have selected 'When deleting a messge locally,
> remove it from the server' in the mail preferneces.
>
> I have to manually remove the email through webmail.
>
> Any ideas would be appreciated.
>
> Chris
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 20:10:39 2003
From: Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:10:39 -0400
Subject: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
References: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <bksto6$d7f$1@sea.gmane.org>

Is there a web page that announces this talk?  Including directions on how
to get there and where it is at Senaca?  Maybe a link to this info could be
put on http://tlug.ss.org/events.shtml.

Tom.

"Lloyd D Budd" <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org> wrote in
message news:1064411000.31787.8.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZ64f5Jfw46dQ at public.gmane.org
> -----Forwarded Message-----
> From: John Selmys <j.selmys-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
> To: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:45:12 -0400
>
> At the moment his talk will center around trends in open source. We
> suggested that since the audience will be primarily
> students that perhaps some discussion on open source re education may be
> useful. Anyway he's doing this for free so
> basically he'll decide.
>
> If I find out more, I'll let you know.
>
> John
> =============
>
>
> Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Do you know what will be the topics of his talk?
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Lloyd
> >
> > On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 00:20, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> >
> > > Any idea what the topic of Bob's talk will be?
> > >
> > > Kareem
> > >
> > > On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 20:11, ln @post.com wrote:
> > >
> > > > FYI - from the Seneca Linux club.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Re: -------- Original Message --------
> > > > Re: Subject: Chairman of the Board
> > > > Re: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400
> > > > Re: From: "John Selmys"
<John.Selmys-U9NDqb625Q+nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
> > > > Re: To: linuxclub-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org,
isa <isa-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org>
> > > >
> > > > Re: Greetings Linux Fans,
> > > >
> > > > Re:     It is with great pleasure that I announce an open talk by
Robert
> > > > Re: Young, Chairman of RedHat, will take place here at Seneca on
Wednesday,
> > > > Re: Oct 8, 2003. This coup was arranged by Praveen Mitera, the
coordinator
> > > > Re: of our post-diploma database program. My understanding is that
the
> > > > Re: speech will take place in the upper kelidoscope room (S2168) in
the SEQ
> > > > Re: building starting at 3pm. Everyone is welcome. Tell your
friends. Bring
> > > > Re: your parents!
> > > >
> > > > Re: John
> > > > Re: ps: If there are Questions/Answers at the end then come prepared
with
> > > > Re: your questions.
> > > >  ===============================================================
> > > >
> >
> -- 
> Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>



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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 21:36:33 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:36:33 -0400
Subject: Fedora vs. RHE
In-Reply-To: <200309241330.37478.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost> <20030924145707.BA4C276E4D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <200309241330.37478.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030924213633.GA23517@m450>

On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 02:54:28PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote

> Anyone know if there will continue to be a product called Redhat
> (as in RH7, RH8, RH9)?  Or will there be just RHE and Fedora?
> I wouldn't see a point in continuing to make Redhat releases if they
> are maintaining Fedora.

  What we need is to take Redhat 7.3 and maintain/upgrade it with new
libs, apps, etc.  I am very annoyed with version-du-jour.  I used to
joke about windows customers who amde the following purchases...
1994 => Windows 3.1
1995 => Windows 95
1996 => Windows 95 OSR2
1998 => Windows 98
1999 => Windows 98 SE
2000 => Windows ME
2001 => Windows XP

  Redhat has started copying that trend, along with the trend to bloat
that MS started.  I wouldn't mind $5.00/month for the convenience of
up2date, but continuous upgrades-du-jour and short lifespan for each
version is getting annoying.  I want to *USE* my computer, not spend all
my time installing new versions.  I am this => <= close to switching to
Debian already.  They have a reputation for versions being few and far
between, but that sounds tempting about now.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 21:34:34 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:34:34 -0400
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost>
Message-ID: <20030924213434.GE13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Sep 24, 2003 at 10:15:39AM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> IBM has international warranties and I can attest to the fact that they 
> work. As for not having Windows on it, at one time, IBM used to sell 
> laptops with Linux installed. I do not know if they still do that. I 
> followed the recent thread about the Dell and Windows refund saga and some 
> people were advocating off brand clone laptop manufacturers as possibly 
> being more accommodating to selling bare machines. I have used and sold 
> various brands of laptops and personally, I would not touch an off brand. 
> Laptops are very proprietary so one is usually completely dependent upon 
> the manufacturer for most spare parts. Some of the clones, like Eurocom for 
> example, use desktop CPUs in order to have the fastest CPU. Desktop CPUs 
> consume more energy and therefore run hotter. Hotter electronics in tight 
> spaces usually leads to premature failures, though admittedly, this is a 
> generalization. I have no idea what, if anything, Eurocom does to address 
> this problem.

Compaq seems very willing to use desktop athlon's in their laptops.
Emachines seems to use proper mobile athlon chips on the other hand.
Sure shows in the battery life.  A friend got an M5310 recently, ad it
sure is nice.

> I stick to and recommend name brands like IBM, HP, and Compaq. Their prices 
> are not that much higher, if at all, and I think they are better engineered 
> and assembled. If you shop carefully and do not buy machines that are on 
> the leading edge of the technology curve, you can often find pretty good 
> deals. I put a premium on display (1600 x 1200 is very addictive), keyboard 
> feel (IBM and HP have the best keyboards in the business), pointing device 
> (I prefer the little eraser head pointing sticks though some laptops come 
> with both track pads and eraser heads), disk capacity (you can never have 
> enough), and RAM capacity (256M is a good starting point these days). I 
> will not pay much of a premium for a faster CPU since virtually any new 
> machine sold today is overkill for almost everyone.
> 
> One last point: I cannot imagine any OEM version of Windows that is likely 
> to be running on a laptop costing anything close to $500. I would not be 
> surprised if the "Windows Tax" was more in the $50 range for big brand 
> products. Granted, $50 is not zero and one should not have to pay for 
> something they do not use but I suspect that it is cheaper for the big 
> brands to sell machines with Windows preloaded than it would be to sell 
> bare machines. Variances from the norm cost money so it may very well be 
> that one would have to pay more than $50 for the special handling that 
> would be necessary to ship a bare machine, which takes us full circle. 
> Lesser known brands might be more accommodating to special needs but I 
> think you would pay for it down the road when it comes time to get service 
> for the machine. Parts like RAM and hard disk are more or less standard but 
> what would you do if the keyboard in your lovely ASUS laptop started acting 
> up? I pick on ASUS in particular because we sold a few and regretted it. 
> Support was pretty much non existent. Parts had to come in from California. 
> The keyboards had to be replaced every few months because the pointing 
> stick would get jumpy and eventually stop working altogether. Once the 
> machines were out of warranty, which was a measly one year anyway, the 
> users stopped using them as laptops and attached external keyboards and 
> mice to them. Having to attach external keyboards and pointing devices 
> defeats the purpose of having a laptop in the first place.

Well I have mostly worked with IBM laptops, so I don't have much
experience with other brands.  I have met some compaq's I didn't like,
and don't get me started on toshiba and panasonic.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 21:36:41 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 17:36:41 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <3F710955.6030409-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Sep 23, 2003 at 11:02:45PM -0400, Anton Markov wrote:
> I know this isn't exactly linux-related, but knowing how helpful 
> everyone on this list is, I thought this would be a good place to ask.
> 
> I am involved in the CO-OP program at my school.  I am looking for a 
> placement in the field of software development (i.e. programming).  My 
> teacher has been unsuccessful so far at finding anything suitable. 
> Therefore, I am trying to find something myself.  I can work in the 
> mornings for 3 hours, preferably somewhere in Southern Etobicoke area 
> (downtown core is fine too).  If anybody knows or works for a company 
> that does software development and has had co-op students before or 
> would be willing to try the program, please contact me off the list. 
> Thanks.
> 
> For those who don't know what CO-OP is, it basically means that the 
> student goes to work for some company, but the company doesn't pay him 
> anything.  Instead he gets school credits and work experience.

Of course there is also Co-Op the way universities do it, where the
student gets work experience and money. :)

Perhaps you should list some of your existing skills and experiences.

Lennart Sorensen
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:09:39 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 18:09:39 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <20030924213641.GF13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> 
	<20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1064441379.601.46.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 17:36, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> Of course there is also Co-Op the way universities do it, where the
> student gets work experience and money. :)

True, but university students tend to have a lot more to offer in terms
of skills, get paid significantly less than they're worth, and land the
employer a ton of subsidies from the government.  Not that I'm
complaining, on the whole it's a win-win: students get experience,
employers get skills and a window to recruiting.

Kareem

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      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
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 ********************************************************************/

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:12:44 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <1064441379.601.46.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>  <20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <1064441379.601.46.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote:

> On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 17:36, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > Of course there is also Co-Op the way universities do it, where the
> > student gets work experience and money. :)
>
> True, but university students tend to have a lot more to offer in terms
> of skills, get paid significantly less than they're worth,

It amazes me in today's high-tech market that kids coming out of school
still think they should be handed a $50K/yr job along with their degree.
Try checking out the typical salaries a high-tech worker gets in Bangalore
or Kiev.  Then be happy you can get a job in Ontario that pays more than
$6.85/hr.

-Ralph
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:35:00 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:35:00 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>  <20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1064441379.601.46.camel@yoda> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F721C14.2000406@rogers.com>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 17:36, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>>
>>>Of course there is also Co-Op the way universities do it, where the
>>>student gets work experience and money. :)
>>
>>True, but university students tend to have a lot more to offer in terms
>>of skills, get paid significantly less than they're worth,
> 
> 
> It amazes me in today's high-tech market that kids coming out of school
> still think they should be handed a $50K/yr job along with their degree.
> Try checking out the typical salaries a high-tech worker gets in Bangalore
> or Kiev.  Then be happy you can get a job in Ontario that pays more than
> $6.85/hr.

I'm making more than that and I'm not happy.  If the company I used to 
work for hadn't gone under, I'd likely be making at least twice what I'm 
getting now.  And I've got many, many years of experience and an 
excellent education.




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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:35:42 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:35:42 -0400
Subject: Fedora vs. RHE
In-Reply-To: <20030924213633.GA23517-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost> <20030924145707.BA4C276E4D@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <200309241330.37478.fraser@wehave.net> <20030924213633.GA23517@m450>
Message-ID: <3F721C3E.5080007@sympatico.ca>


>  Redhat has started copying that trend, along with the trend to bloat
>that MS started.  I wouldn't mind $5.00/month for the convenience of
>up2date, but continuous upgrades-du-jour and short lifespan for each
>version is getting annoying.  I want to *USE* my computer, not spend all
>my time installing new versions.  I am this => <= close to switching to
>Debian already.  They have a reputation for versions being few and far
>between, but that sounds tempting about now.
>
>  
>

I switched my laptop to Debian a year ago, and I haven't looked back. 
For my purposes, software development, learning Linux/unix and kernel 
internals,
and generic KDE/Gnome/OpenOffice/Mozilla type stuff, I find Debian 
*nearly* ideal for several reasons:

(1) apt-get is not just a binary, it's a policy.  I've tried apt-rpm, 
and unfortunately, it's not nearly as nice, because the policy stuff 
isn't done properly.

(2) no reinstalls.  "apt-get dist-upgrade"is enough.

(3) manual configuration steps, when required, teach me more about how 
my system works, which is achieving one of my goals. fancy guis that 
hide how things work underneath are great for end-users but not for 
techies who want to learn it.


Nevertheless, here are my gripes, which even turned back into positives, 
once I became Enlightened:

(1) For Desktop usage, Debian doesn't come polished up out of the box.  
For starters, there is no box for Debian to come out of, and for 
seconds, the installer is functional, but hardly as polished, efficient, 
and thorough as the ones that come with RedHat, mandrake, etc.   
Ironically though, this polish turns into a disadvantage for me, since 
reinstalling is so easy, I tended never to put any real data, or do any 
real work on Linux, since my Linux partition got wiped clean by each new 
distro that I downloaded.  The reason that the installer isn't polished 
is because real people doing real work aren't using the installer very 
often, infact, almost never.  Only people who are trying the upgrade of 
the day care about the installer.    Basic debian installs are no harder 
in practice, but the learning curve until they become easier, is 
longer.   But with perserverance, and groups.google.com, you can do 
*anything* on Debian. :-)

(2)  Debian woody (stable) does tend to get a little bit stale, but the 
answer, in Debian-think is not "you can't do that", it's "how much do 
you want to learn?". Turn the notch up to 'testing' to work with the 
next release, or go to unstable (sid) if you want to go to ten, and if 
you want to go to Eleven, in true Spinal Tap style, then go grab CVS 
head from whatever you want to use, and roll up your sleeves, and build 
it yourself,  but put it into /usr/local instead, or in a chroot 
environment, whatever, so what's stopping you?  Don't know C, makefiles, 
configure scripts?   If your brain ain't full yet, just wait. :-)


Now I must say that I find the Fedora project to be a fabulous idea,  
because I think it's an attempt to backpedal RedHat into becoming 
"Debian with RPMs".  Having a better installer wouldn't hurt Debian, and 
having Fedora be "easy to install like RedHat, but with more community 
involvement like Debian" could only be good,and I'm counting the days 
until they implement Debian style policies, and a three-tiered- pipeline 
(stable, unstable, testing, anyone?).


Regards,
Warren


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:41:06 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 24 Sep 2003 18:41:06 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> 
	<20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1064441379.601.46.camel@yoda>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <1064443267.601.51.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 18:12, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> It amazes me in today's high-tech market that kids coming out of school
> still think they should be handed a $50K/yr job along with their degree.
> Try checking out the typical salaries a high-tech worker gets in Bangalore
> or Kiev.  Then be happy you can get a job in Ontario that pays more than
> $6.85/hr.

Let's not get started on all of the unfair situations in the world.  It
will simply degenerate into a flame war without getting us any further. 
I've seen people who more than earn their keep and some who are more
than overpaid, in all manner of positions.  All I try and do is make
things better than when I started, which is more than I can say for most
people.

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/

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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:34:24 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:34:24 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <20030924213641.GF13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
 <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20030924183353.01e87450@mail.interlog.com>

At 05:36 PM 09/24/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>Of course there is also Co-Op the way universities do it, where the
>student gets work experience and money. :)

That is often referred to as "work study".



Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:44:34 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:44:34 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <3F721C14.2000406-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>  <20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1064441379.601.46.camel@yoda> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121@ns.istop.com> <3F721C14.2000406@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F721E52.5050701@sympatico.ca>

James Knott wrote:

>
> I'm making more than that and I'm not happy.


I might point out that no amount of money can make anyone happy, but as 
Woody Allen said
"Money may not buy happiness, but it does buy all my favourite forms of 
misery.".  :-)


Warren

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 22:43:21 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:43:21 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
	<20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<1064441379.601.46.camel@yoda>
	<Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20030924184321.2cb50119.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003 18:12:44 -0400 (EDT)
Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> It amazes me in today's high-tech market that kids coming out of
> school still think they should be handed a $50K/yr job along with
> their degree. Try checking out the typical salaries a high-tech worker
> gets in Bangalore or Kiev.  Then be happy you can get a job in Ontario
> that pays more than$6.85/hr.

While I see your point about overly-demanding graduates, pitting worker
against worker is a classic red-herring used by those with an overly
zealous profit-motive to drag down wages, not just in the IT industry.

Yet another example of why IT workers need to wake up and start
organizing, as all workers do, to demand a better living for all.

One Big Union! 

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you live long enough, you'll see that every victory turns into a
defeat.
		-- Simone de Beauvoir
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 01:19:46 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:19:46 -0400
Subject: Fedora vs. RHE
In-Reply-To: <20030924213633.GA23517-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost> <200309241330.37478.fraser@wehave.net> <20030924213633.GA23517@m450>
Message-ID: <200309242119.46672.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 24 September 2003 17:36, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   Redhat has started copying that trend, along with the trend to bloat
> that MS started.  I wouldn't mind $5.00/month for the convenience of
> up2date, but continuous upgrades-du-jour and short lifespan for each
> version is getting annoying.  I want to *USE* my computer, not spend all
> my time installing new versions.  I am this => <= close to switching to
> Debian already.  They have a reputation for versions being few and far
> between, but that sounds tempting about now.

Debian can accomodate you.  I've been using Debian on servers (and desktops) 
since 1997, for the past few years I've been exposed to Redhat.  I've also 
used Slackware on servers.  I've found many things about other distributions 
that I dislike and haven't found any features compelling enough to make me 
switch.

As an example of stability, read last weeks DWN 
(http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2003/37/), Debian has tcl 8.0, 8.2, 8.3 
and 8.4 all available for use.  Install one, or more, as you require.  The 
reason for all the versions "Tcl isn't particularly backwards compatible".  
Many other key apps follow this example gcc (2.7.2, 2.95 or 3.0), perl 
(5.004, 5.005 or 5.6), kernel (2.2.x or 2.4.x) ... this is with Debian 
stable, same is true of unstable but versions may differ.  If there's any 
good reason for maintaining multiple versions of a packages, there's a very 
good chance of it happening.

Contrast this with Redhat who with Redhat 9 (or was it even Redhat 8?) began 
shipping apache2 by default, AFAIK some key modules (like php and mod_perl) 
are not very stable with apache2.

Another redhatism that I have wondered about is gcc.  In Redhat 9 they are 
compiling the kernel with a very new version of gcc (version 3.2.2), despite 
this note in the kernel's README:

   - Make sure you have gcc 2.95.3 available.  gcc 2.91.66 (egcs-1.1.2) may
     also work but is not as safe, and *gcc 2.7.2.3 is no longer supported*.

Stable Debian doesn't satisfy me entirely, I want the latest KDE and mozilla 
for example, no problem there are excellent Debian packages for those that 
can be installed from other sources.

I like the idea of Redhat Enterprise, for people running servers it makes a 
lot of sense if you're willing to pay.  For those who know what they're doing 
the Enterprise version is a pretty steep price to pay for stability and the 
redhat alternative of keeping pace with fedora or redhat X is not very 
appealing.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 01:28:13 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 21:28:13 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <19378.216.138.194.32.1064420072.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <200309232058.36386.fraser@wehave.net> <19378.216.138.194.32.1064420072.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <200309242128.13132.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 24 September 2003 12:14, Keith Mastin wrote:

> I said difficult, not impossible. :) I have one squirrelmail setup that
> fetches mail from pop3 servers, and it wasn't that big of a hack. They're
> working on the same for hotmail, yahoo, etc. at the moment. SM needs IMAP
> to work though.

That's cool, hadn't noticed a pop plugin.

> For a web-enabled pop client to work, the client would need to dl the mail
> from the pop3 servers and distribute from a central location. I don't see
> the advantage.

No advantage, I much prefer IMAP.  Just saying that a pop client is easier to 
write than an imap client, granted the task of retrieving messages is a 
pretty small part of a total email client.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 03:27:21 2003
From: mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:27:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <3F710955.6030409-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>

> I am involved in the CO-OP program at my school.  I am looking for
> a 
> placement in the field of software development (i.e. programming). 

Well if we are doing that, I am looking for a full time job, I
graduated from Waterloo in April 02 and have a certs CCNA/CCDA and
Linux experience and (I hesitate to add here a pile of M$
certs/experience - MCSE/MCSA included - *blush* - I think of it as a
Must Call Someone Experienced) I am currently doing a Masters of
Engineering at Ryerson (Computer Networks) which means I horse around
a lot on Cisco IOS. If anyone knows of anything - drop me a line:
m c o l e (at) t h e o r e m (dot) c a <- antispam, sorry
I'd sure like to stop blasting my resume at monster.ca.

Sorry for the disturbance.

Michael

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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From tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 03:39:03 2003
From: tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:39:03 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>

"Michael" <mjc106 at 1/??M#??h??????J??m????> wrote in message news:20030925032721.59039.qmail-1z9btdrhxG2A/QwVtaZbd54YOaQPfWJIrVxdn2TrCWA at public.gmane.org
> > I am involved in the CO-OP program at my school.  I am looking for
> > a 
> > placement in the field of software development (i.e. programming). 
> 
> Well if we are doing that, I am looking for a full time job, I
> graduated from Waterloo in April 02 and have a certs CCNA/CCDA and
> Linux experience and (I hesitate to add here a pile of M$
> certs/experience - MCSE/MCSA included - *blush* - I think of it as a
> Must Call Someone Experienced) I am currently doing a Masters of
> Engineering at Ryerson (Computer Networks) which means I horse around
> a lot on Cisco IOS. If anyone knows of anything - drop me a line:
> m c o l e (at) t h e o r e m (dot) c a <- antispam, sorry
> I'd sure like to stop blasting my resume at monster.ca.
> 
> Sorry for the disturbance.
> 
> Michael

What do they tell you in school (Waterloo or Ryerson) about the offshore programming and your career?

Are the students concerned that offshore programming will mean that they can't make a career out of software development?

I'm personally concerned that the interesting jobs - like systems development - will go offshore and the boring jobs - like designing screens to look exactly as the client wants - will stay here.  I'm a C++ developer.

Tom.



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From mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 04:18:37 2003
From: mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:18:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030925041837.37249.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com>

> What do they tell you in school (Waterloo or Ryerson) about the
> offshore programming and your career?

Offshore programming is not the only problem, I once had an interview
with WebHelp.com a company that seems to generate business by helping
companies move their technical support overseas. This may partly
explain the depressing lack of entry level jobs.
 
> Are the students concerned that offshore programming will mean that
> they can't make a career out of software development?

At least my M Eng is in a more Network Analyst type training, except
nobody wants to hire you unless you have experience, and how do you
get experience, by getting a job... what a great system eh!

> I'm personally concerned that the interesting jobs - like systems
> development - will go offshore and the boring jobs - like designing
> screens to look exactly as the client wants - will stay here.  I'm
> a C++ developer.

If it helps at all, I have heard some real horror stories about
companies that outsourced their software development / IS
departments, outsourcing is not as easy as everyone believe/hoped.

Michael

______________________________________________________________________ 
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 04:19:07 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:19:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this
 is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
 <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:

> I'm personally concerned that the interesting jobs - like systems
> development - will go offshore and the boring jobs - like designing
> screens to look exactly as the client wants - will stay here.

I hired my first offshore programmer around '93 (a student from Romania)
and was paying around US$2/hr at the time.  Back then the banking systems
sucked so bad the easiest way to pay him was mailing US$20 bills to him.
Even now it's still a lot more work getting money to someone in one of the
developing high-tech nations.

Some tech jobs are going to go offshore, but a significant portion of them
will stay.  When the motherboard in the corporate fileserver dies it's not
very effective to dispatch someone from Delhi to fix it.  I've thought of
outsourcing my tech support offshore, but won't.  The techs supporting my
ADSL customers have the same ADSL service at home (as well as in the
office).  They know how the service really works whereas an offshore
call-center would only have a lab that tries to simulate the service.

If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are good
with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an MCSE and
program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...

-Ralph
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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 04:21:22 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:21:22 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning
	this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
	 <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <1064463682.20364.0.camel@bilbo>


> If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are good
> with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an MCSE and
> program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...

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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 04:25:11 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:25:11 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning
	this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
	 <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <1064463911.20364.5.camel@bilbo>


> If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are good
> with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an MCSE and
> program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...


My $0.02 is that a reasonable career plan is to get a good solid 10
years experience doing whatever it is that you can get hired to do in
computing, the more diverse and productive you are, the better.

Then after that 10 years, you go out on your own, hang out your shingle,
and become an independant software or IT contract guy.  I did that for
three years, and it was fun. I'm back working for a company full time
again, but I might try it again. Economic uncertainty, and the dot-bust
caused me to turn tail and run back for safety, but things are actually
not bad right now.

Regards,

Warren

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From mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 04:28:42 2003
From: mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:28:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20030925042842.38811.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com>

> If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are
> good
> with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an
> MCSE and
> program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...

Ralph, I know a lot of unemployed Waterloo grads who match that
description. (MCSE and in some cases VB excluded.)

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From tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 04:48:38 2003
From: tom-mQDsgmoLwK3SUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 00:48:38 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Ralph Doncaster" <ralph@ g?
??;????3????vgi
??> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504-aSG3JAnhR7atq2lpoERdew at public.gmane.org
> If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are good
> with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an MCSE and
> program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...

Not true.  In software development there are no jobs in Linux at all.

Most of the postings I see are for Java or C# and database skills.  The C++ jobs I see are for Visual C++, UNIX (usually Solaris) and embedded.  You might find a job that will let you program on Linux (like Java, Perl, etc.) but you won't find anything that let's you do real Linux work.

Tom.

> -Ralph
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 03:27:55 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 23:27:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Using this list with Gmane
In-Reply-To: <bkr0ur$se4$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <bkr0ur$se4$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309242323310.19466@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:

> Since this list is moderated I need to subscribe to it in order to post.

Hi.  That's the definition of a closed list.  If the list was moderated it
would mean that one or more designated people must authorised all posts
before they can go to the list.  Lists can be moderated but open, or
unmoderated & closed (as is the norm today) or any other combination.

Unless I've slipped into a parrellel universe, this list is not moderated.

> Mailman allows me to subscribe to the list but not receive messages.

As for mailman, yes I agree.  Alot more manageable from a user & admin
perspective.  I'm a sysadmin for Humbug (http://www.humbug.org.au) and
we're migrating to mailman, urged along by our moderators (some Humbug
lists _are_ moderated, and they are all closed).

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 07:38:38 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:38:38 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251038080.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Alex Maynard wrote:

>
> Thank you all so much for your help! Copying over the bad libraries from
> the working distribution apparently did the trick.

But you will never be sure you fixed everything. Only everything you have
*tested*.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 07:48:48 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:48:48 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <19378.216.138.194.32.1064420072.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>       
 <1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>       
 <17043.216.138.194.32.1064326835.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>       
 <200309232058.36386.fraser@wehave.net> <19378.216.138.194.32.1064420072.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251046360.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> For a web-enabled pop client to work, the client would need to dl the mail
> from the pop3 servers and distribute from a central location. I don't see
> the advantage.

I do not understand this. A pop client simply accesses a pop3 server. It
can do so dynamically, there is no need to 'download' anything especially
if they reside on the same server or network (download being quasi
instant). When the web interface user pulls a message down then he
downloads. If he decides not to delete, then the message stays in the
mailbox on the server with the pop3d.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 07:50:18 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:50:18 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Netscape lock & purge
In-Reply-To: <3F64208C.675AB9FA-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F47B36F.9BEBFE30@onlink.net> <3F64208C.675AB9FA@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251049361.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Wrt locally deleted not removed from server, check compatibility between
your version of Netscape and pop3d. I remember there were some issues in
the past with this.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 08:00:18 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:00:18 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>  <20030924213641.GF13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <1064441379.601.46.camel@yoda> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309241807400.31121@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251057100.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> It amazes me in today's high-tech market that kids coming out of school
> still think they should be handed a $50K/yr job along with their degree.
> Try checking out the typical salaries a high-tech worker gets in Bangalore
> or Kiev.  Then be happy you can get a job in Ontario that pays more than
> $6.85/hr.

Offshore manufacturing is tax fraud of a type that is particularly taxing
to the social services of the country that practices this. Many countries
are starting to react strongly to this. It is about time. Expect soon to
see products manufactured by a company offshore and imported to be taxed
as if they had been manufactured by a foreign company. It's only fair.

Peter
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 12:48:11 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:48:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this
 is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <20030925042842.38811.qmail-Uwsbnrt6wVmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030925042842.38811.qmail@web41501.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309250844400.16235@ns.istop.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Michael wrote:

> > If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are
> > good
> > with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an
> > MCSE and
> > program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...
>
> Ralph, I know a lot of unemployed Waterloo grads who match that
> description. (MCSE and in some cases VB excluded.)

If any of them live in the Ottawa area I'd probably hire them.
http://www.istop.com/job.html

And for someone truly impressive I'd even consider hiring someone outside
Ottawa and have them telecommute.

-Ralph

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 12:55:21 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:55:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning
 this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
 <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com>
 <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309250849550.16235@ns.istop.com>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:

>
> "Ralph Doncaster" <ralph@ g??;??3??vgi
> ?> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org...
> > If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are good
> > with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an MCSE and
> > program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...
>
> Not true.  In software development there are no jobs in Linux at all.

Really?  Did xandros and e-smith close down recently?
And since when did the Linux kernel API become incompatible with Solaris
and HP/UX?  10 years ago things like getclock()/gettimeofday() were a bit
quirky, but now a 1st-yr college student could easily write a C program
portable across all three operating systems.

-Ralph

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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 13:18:58 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:18:58 -0400
Subject: test posting
Message-ID: <1064495938.11945.39.camel@linux.local>

I havnt been able to post since I last posted about getting a zaurus.
Worked in the morning and not since. Complained to Sympatico. Hopefully
fixed it for good

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 12:43:56 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 08:43:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20030924183353.01e87450-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
        <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
        <5.2.1.1.0.20030924183353.01e87450@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <42331.199.64.0.252.1064493836.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


Kevin Cozens said:
> At 05:36 PM 09/24/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>>Of course there is also Co-Op the way universities do it, where the
>>student gets work experience and money. :)
>
> That is often referred to as "work study".

Work-Study is a very different program, generally not aimed at technical
(i.e. engineering and computer science) people.
Kareem

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/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/



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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 14:04:48 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:04:48 -0400
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
In-Reply-To: <20030924213434.GE13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost>
 <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net>
 <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost> <20030924213434.GE13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030924191842.097ec4a8@localhost>

Hi,

At 05:34 PM 24/09/2003 -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>Compaq seems very willing to use desktop athlon's in their laptops.

Such a machine would come in handy on those freezing mornings when the car 
seems to take forever to warm up:) Seriously, I know the major brands also 
make compromises. All the major brands also have models that are typically 
sold in the retail channel and for the most part, target consumers and 
small business owners. I do not buy or sell consumer models of the brands I 
mentioned earlier. The typical warranty on such machines is one year as 
opposed to the "corporate" models which are usually three years. Warranties 
on laptops are worth real money. Virtually everything but the disk drive 
and RAM are proprietary and expensive so I would rather have the peace of 
mind of three years of coverage than not.

>Emachines seems to use proper mobile athlon chips on the other hand. Sure 
>shows in the battery life.  A friend got an M5310 recently, ad it
>sure is nice.

E-machines has only popped up recently in the retail chain. There is an 
after market for IBM, Compaq, HP and parts and service for them are not 
difficult to obtain. Who knows what E-machines laptops will be like? If we 
can use their desktop machines as a point of reference, they will 
essentially be disposable machines.

>Well I have mostly worked with IBM laptops, so I don't have much
>experience with other brands.  I have met some compaq's I didn't like,
>and don't get me started on toshiba and panasonic.

I avoided Toshiba for the longest time because even on their "corporate" 
models, they only offered a measly one year warranty while their 
competitors were offering three. I think they offer three now but I do not 
see them as a compelling choice when I have had good results with IBM, HP, 
Compaq. Of the three, IBM stands out for the best web site. If I have a 
model number for an IBM machine, I can find out just about everything about 
it on the IBM web site. HP's web site leaves much to be desired. As for 
Panasonic, I have only ever seen them at trade shows. I have never actually 
seen anyone using one. My impression was that they were built like brick 
outhouses but horribly overpriced. What is it about Toshiba and Panasonic 
you do not like? Anecdotal evidence is often the only thing we have to go 
by in this business.

Speaking of service, a friend bought one of the 17" PowerBooks a couple of 
months ago. It has a gorgeous display but I hate the keyboard, track pad, 
and Apple's dogmatic adherence to its inane policy of how a single mouse 
button is less confusing then three. Nonetheless, it is a nice machine. He 
was using it when OS X put up an unusual error message the details of which 
are not important. He shut the machine down and tried to restart but got 
whatever the equivalent of the sad Mac is these days. He took the machine 
in to the *authorized* Apple dealer that he bought it from and was told 
that it would be eight(!) days before they could even touch it. He was not 
happy with that answer so he contacted the owner of the dealership who 
moved him up in the queue so that it took "only" two days before the techs 
looked at his machine. They called my friend and told him that the service 
call could not be covered under warranty because the machine had been 
infected by viruses and there was no warranty coverage for those sorts of 
things. The conversation went something like this.

My friend: "Which anti virus software are you using?"

Tech: "Norton. We have already formatted the drive and are going to do a 
fresh install of OS X to revive your machine."

My friend: "What were the viruses that you found?"

Tech: ... rattled off a bunch of .exe, .pif, and .scr files from the Eudora 
attachments folder.

My friend: "Those are Windows viruses! They do not have any effect on OS X!"

Tech: "All I'm telling you is that Norton found viruses that you may not 
know about."

My friend: "Why is it that Symantec's web site does not have any viruses 
that affect OS X if these viruses that you found supposedly caused this 
problem?"

Tech: ... adamant that it was all the "viruses" that was the cause of the 
problems with the machine.

Long story short, after doing a fresh install of OS X, predictably, the 
machine was no better off. This time, they concluded that the logic board 
(motherboard) was defective and had to be replaced but they still would not 
concede that the Windows viruses that they found had nothing to do with the 
problem. They kept insisting that it was a combination of the viruses and 
defective logic board. My friend and I came to the conclusion that the 
techs must think that the viruses have some physical form, perhaps as 
nanobots, and can eat through silicon and copper:)

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 14:28:40 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:28:40 -0400
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20030924191842.097ec4a8-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost> <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost> <5.2.0.9.0.20030924191842.097ec4a8@localhost>
Message-ID: <20030925142840.GG13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 10:04:48AM -0400, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> Such a machine would come in handy on those freezing mornings when the car 
> seems to take forever to warm up:) Seriously, I know the major brands also 
> make compromises. All the major brands also have models that are typically 
> sold in the retail channel and for the most part, target consumers and 
> small business owners. I do not buy or sell consumer models of the brands I 
> mentioned earlier. The typical warranty on such machines is one year as 
> opposed to the "corporate" models which are usually three years. Warranties 
> on laptops are worth real money. Virtually everything but the disk drive 
> and RAM are proprietary and expensive so I would rather have the peace of 
> mind of three years of coverage than not.

I remember trying to instlal directx on a win95 equiped compaq armada
back in 97 I think, and it was imposible to do at that time.  Too bad
given the presentation software the user was supposed to use on it
needed directdraw.  Compaq at the time said they hadn't written directx
drivers for the business laptops, since directx was "only for games".
Other than that I liked compaq's business models.  Their consumer
models are not usualy nice at all.

> E-machines has only popped up recently in the retail chain. There is an 
> after market for IBM, Compaq, HP and parts and service for them are not 
> difficult to obtain. Who knows what E-machines laptops will be like? If we 
> can use their desktop machines as a point of reference, they will 
> essentially be disposable machines.

Yeah, I remember the emachines desktops.  Supposedly the company has
gone through a major overhaul a couple of years ago, and is pretty good
now.  Time will tell of course.

> I avoided Toshiba for the longest time because even on their "corporate" 
> models, they only offered a measly one year warranty while their 
> competitors were offering three. I think they offer three now but I do not 
> see them as a compelling choice when I have had good results with IBM, HP, 
> Compaq. Of the three, IBM stands out for the best web site. If I have a 
> model number for an IBM machine, I can find out just about everything about 
> it on the IBM web site. HP's web site leaves much to be desired. As for 
> Panasonic, I have only ever seen them at trade shows. I have never actually 
> seen anyone using one. My impression was that they were built like brick 
> outhouses but horribly overpriced. What is it about Toshiba and Panasonic 
> you do not like? Anecdotal evidence is often the only thing we have to go 
> by in this business.

I spent many hours fighting with a panasonic some years ago to get the
drivers for the pcmcia slots to co exist with the other devices in the
machine.  After reading all the docs, trying the various drivers and
setup utilities and trying to configure everything by hand, I determined
it was imposible to make that laptop have al it's components available
at the same time.  The toshiba's seem to have a few proprietary bits in
them, or at least things that are not completely standard, given how
many places in the linux kernel I see options for dealing with toshiba
oddities.  At least I can just install stuff on an IBM and expect it to
work (well assuming X has support for the video chip yet, in case of
newer models).  IBM's web site certainly is one of the best around.

> Speaking of service, a friend bought one of the 17" PowerBooks a couple of 
> months ago. It has a gorgeous display but I hate the keyboard, track pad, 
> and Apple's dogmatic adherence to its inane policy of how a single mouse 
> button is less confusing then three. Nonetheless, it is a nice machine. He 
> was using it when OS X put up an unusual error message the details of which 
> are not important. He shut the machine down and tried to restart but got 
> whatever the equivalent of the sad Mac is these days. He took the machine 
> in to the *authorized* Apple dealer that he bought it from and was told 
> that it would be eight(!) days before they could even touch it. He was not 
> happy with that answer so he contacted the owner of the dealership who 
> moved him up in the queue so that it took "only" two days before the techs 
> looked at his machine. They called my friend and told him that the service 
> call could not be covered under warranty because the machine had been 
> infected by viruses and there was no warranty coverage for those sorts of 
> things. The conversation went something like this.
> 
> My friend: "Which anti virus software are you using?"
> 
> Tech: "Norton. We have already formatted the drive and are going to do a 
> fresh install of OS X to revive your machine."
> 
> My friend: "What were the viruses that you found?"
> 
> Tech: ... rattled off a bunch of .exe, .pif, and .scr files from the Eudora 
> attachments folder.
> 
> My friend: "Those are Windows viruses! They do not have any effect on OS X!"
> 
> Tech: "All I'm telling you is that Norton found viruses that you may not 
> know about."
> 
> My friend: "Why is it that Symantec's web site does not have any viruses 
> that affect OS X if these viruses that you found supposedly caused this 
> problem?"
> 
> Tech: ... adamant that it was all the "viruses" that was the cause of the 
> problems with the machine.
> 
> Long story short, after doing a fresh install of OS X, predictably, the 
> machine was no better off. This time, they concluded that the logic board 
> (motherboard) was defective and had to be replaced but they still would not 
> concede that the Windows viruses that they found had nothing to do with the 
> problem. They kept insisting that it was a combination of the viruses and 
> defective logic board. My friend and I came to the conclusion that the 
> techs must think that the viruses have some physical form, perhaps as 
> nanobots, and can eat through silicon and copper:)

Well you get what you pay for in tech support (and htey don't pay much I
suspect).  Then again maybe sometimes they don't even get what they pay
for. :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 14:35:50 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:35:50 -0400
Subject: job market
In-Reply-To: <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com>
	 <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com>
	 <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <1064500549.1701.22.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 00:48, Tom wrote:
> "Ralph Doncaster" may have wrote:
> > If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are good
> > with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an MCSE and
> > program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...
This is not realistic.  The market place is such that only the top 1%,
and the lucky are able to find jobs.  Unfortunately, the market place no
longer has room for the less skilled and the less experienced.

> Not true.  In software development there are no jobs in Linux at all.
I have not yet met someone that can truly program on Linux, that could
not .  Likely as the Linux environment gets better, it will become less
true... people will no longer the base skills that save you from time to
time.

Thankfully spelling and typing are still not required,
regards,
Lloyd

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 14:38:30 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:38:30 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251038080.546-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251038080.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <1064500709.1692.27.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 03:38, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Alex Maynard wrote:
> 
> >
> > Thank you all so much for your help! Copying over the bad libraries from
> > the working distribution apparently did the trick.
> 
> But you will never be sure you fixed everything. Only everything you have
> *tested*.

*groan*  How monk of you.  One cannot determine the absence of problems,
only the presence.

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 14:39:02 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:39:02 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com> <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20030925143902.GH13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 12:48:38AM -0400, Tom wrote:
> Not true.  In software development there are no jobs in Linux at all.
> 
> Most of the postings I see are for Java or C# and database skills.  The C++ jobs I see are for Visual C++, UNIX (usually Solaris) and embedded.  You might find a job that will let you program on Linux (like Java, Perl, etc.) but you won't find anything that let's you do real Linux work.

It is not very long ago (2 months maybe) that primus posted multiple
linux c/c++/sql developement positions they wanted to fill.

So there are jobs out there for doing linux development.

Where I work, we have one Visual-C++ programmer doing windows
developement (ok, he is a co-op), and another doing mac os X development
(also a co-op), and everything else we do on linux, which is what we use
for the server side.  I don't do java (I hope I never have to learn that
mess), and I don't do visual whatever (I have never had to).  So far I
haven't had a problem getting a job (although I have only been out of
school 3 years so far).  My co-op positions were either sysadmin/tech
support or unix development (about half of each type).  Finding the unix
development jobs on the other hand may be harder, but that doesn't mean
they don't exist.

Lennart Sorensen
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 14:42:13 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 10:42:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Linux CD's
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251039560.13216@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

Morning

I have several linux installation cd's lying about if anyone is interested in
them.
Red Hat 7.2 with source
Red Hat 7.3
Slackware 9.0
Gentoo 1.4

gbell

 10:39:56 up 5 days, 23:25,  1 user,  load average: 0.08, 0.16, 0.09
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 15:11:47 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:11:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030925110607.22839D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:
> I'm personally concerned that the interesting jobs - like systems 
> development - will go offshore...

A lot of stupid companies are setting themselves up to lose huge amounts
of money trying things like that.  2-3 years from now, there's going to be
a growth industry of salvaging companies that tried offshore development
and couldn't make it work properly and are on the verge of bankruptcy
because of it. 

It's the latest management fad; it does not signify a permanent change in
the industry.  The sky is not, repeat not, falling. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 15:22:08 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:22:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <200309242128.13132.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <200309232058.36386.fraser@wehave.net>
        <19378.216.138.194.32.1064420072.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <200309242128.13132.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <22102.216.138.194.32.1064503328.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Wednesday 24 September 2003 12:14, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> I said difficult, not impossible. :) I have one squirrelmail setup
>> that fetches mail from pop3 servers, and it wasn't that big of a hack.
>> They're working on the same for hotmail, yahoo, etc. at the moment. SM
>> needs IMAP to work though.
>
> That's cool, hadn't noticed a pop plugin.

IIRC it's called mail_fetch or something similar



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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 16:30:02 2003
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:30:02 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
Message-ID: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>

Hey everyone.

I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?

-- 
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

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From alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 14:15:37 2003
From: alan-QVObF66B6qeOg/Yh5kgvkFaTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Alan Cohen)
Date: 23 Sep 2003 10:15:37 -0400
Subject: Ximian Evolution question
In-Reply-To: <1064285206.16176.4.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064246808.3818.47.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	<1064247353.6298.7.camel@yoda>
	<1064247888.3818.53.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>  <3F6F71C3.405@rogers.com> 
	<1064285206.16176.4.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1064326538.26413.50.camel@tsx2>

On Mon, 2003-09-22 at 18:03, James Knott wrote:
> > With POP, the client software downloads the messages from the mail 
> > server and usually deletes them from the server.  This means that if you 
> > use more than one computer or mail client, your messages will not all 
> > appear in any system.  With IMAP, the messages stay on the server, 
> > though you can have local copies on the clients...

In fact, if you are in Toronto and are accessing IMAP servers in New
York and Denver, you can move messages between any of those 3 locations.

-- 
-------------------------------------- Please do not respond in HTML
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voice: 416-783-9826
fax:   240-269-7457

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 16:09:51 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:09:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <1064507402.2762.17.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <53001.199.64.0.252.1064506191.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

I advise *not* throwing them off a tall building, or at least not from
your building.  While the the bang and resulting scatter is cool, the
neighbour complaints are ungood, even with a good ground crew.
Of course, I'd *never* do such a thing myself.

Kareem


Marcus Brubaker said:
> Hey everyone.
>
> I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
> gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
> with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
> program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
> take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
> available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?
>
> --
> Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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--
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act,
  but a habit.
    -- Aristotle
 ********************************************************************/



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From awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 17:17:18 2003
From: awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org (Drew Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:17:18 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
Message-ID: <20030925171718.GA29068%awh@awh.org>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:
> Not true.  In software development there are no jobs in Linux at all.

After a while it shouldn't really matter much about the platform, or even
about the language.  What will end up getting you and keeping you a job
is software design and architecture skills, and really those are the skills
that are pretty much transferrable to any language.

 - awh

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From gwalsh-Z6LL8UJvm6I at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 17:46:02 2003
From: gwalsh-Z6LL8UJvm6I at public.gmane.org (Gary Walsh)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:46:02 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <1064507402.2762.17.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <3F7329DA.8050707@dsl.ca>

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Marcus Brubaker wrote:
| Hey everyone.
|
| I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
| gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
| with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
| program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
| take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
| available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?
|
I believe that Accurate Business Machines at 143 Victoria Street South
(between Michael and Theresa) will take them.  I seem to recall seeing a
sign to that effect in their window at some point.  They do monitor
repair and sell used computers.  Their number is 570-2100.  Note that
that section of Victoria is closed due to road work.

- --
Gary Walsh	Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
gwalsh-Z6LL8UJvm6I at public.gmane.org	http://www.wiznet.ca/~dsl_gwalsh
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From gwalsh-Z6LL8UJvm6I at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 17:53:48 2003
From: gwalsh-Z6LL8UJvm6I at public.gmane.org (Gary Walsh)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 13:53:48 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <3F7329DA.8050707-Z6LL8UJvm6I@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld> <3F7329DA.8050707@dsl.ca>
Message-ID: <3F732BAC.6040509@dsl.ca>

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Gary Walsh wrote:
| Marcus Brubaker wrote:
Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
| | program?

| I believe that Accurate Business Machines at 143 Victoria Street South
| (between Michael and Theresa) will take them.  I seem to recall seeing a
| sign to that effect in their window at some point.  They do monitor
| repair and sell used computers.  Their number is 570-2100.  Note that
| that section of Victoria is closed due to road work.
|
Oops, sorry.  I thought I was on the KWLUG list.  I subscribe to too
many mailing lists, I can't keep them straight!

- --
Gary Walsh	Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
gwalsh-Z6LL8UJvm6I at public.gmane.org	http://www.wiznet.ca/~dsl_gwalsh
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From Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 18:03:47 2003
From: Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 14:03:47 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
References: <20030925171718.GA29068%awh@awh.org>
Message-ID: <bkvan0$edb$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Drew Hamilton" <awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org> wrote in message
news:20030925171718.GA29068%awh-ZwSoncw0E0atXF2fZOsJYA at public.gmane.org
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:
> > Not true.  In software development there are no jobs in Linux at all.
>
> After a while it shouldn't really matter much about the platform, or even
> about the language.  What will end up getting you and keeping you a job
> is software design and architecture skills, and really those are the
skills
> that are pretty much transferrable to any language.

That's only true for high-level jobs.

At my company, everybody considers themselves 802.11 developers, or NDIS
developers, or 802.11 firmware developers, etc.  To move to Linux would mean
hiring Linux experts.

Design and architecture aren't irrelevant here, but they are secondary to
technology.

Tom.

>  - awh
>
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 20:18:57 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 16:18:57 -0400
Subject: Speaking of coop placements...
Message-ID: <3F734DB1.4090003@codemonkeys.org>

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My company has an immediate opening for a coop student for development and
unit/integration testing, using mostly Java.  Incumbent gets a chance to work
with some really cool technology and software development methods, including
(but not limited to): messaging (JMS), networking, authentication and
security, GUI design & development (SWT/JFace), web (Struts), design patterns,
UML, DB (Oracle), Solaris, etc.  Does not entail moving boxes (most of the time).

Anyone interested contact me privately for further instructions.
- --
Emir.

"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election
~  ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery,
~  and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices."             -- Andrew Orlowski
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 21:22:18 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:22:18 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <000d01c383ab$1b421df0$0200a8c0@viper>


Two monitors toasted in the same week?
Is the power or powerbars at your place suspect?  


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marcus Brubaker" <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 12:30 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: What to do with dead monitors


> Hey everyone.
> 
> I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
> gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
> with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
> program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
> take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
> available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?
> 
> -- 
> Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 


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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 21:40:00 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 17:40:00 -0400
Subject: virus scanner for linux
Message-ID: <3F7360B0.1060603@rogers.com>


as we all know- windows viruses cant run on linux.. but very often we 
get email and files on our linux machines which may have viruses that we 
dont know about- these files-- viruses and all can be easily transferred 
over the network to a windows machine and well...... if your favourite 
anti-virus scanner does not scan it, then you could say bye bye to lots 
of things.. so my question is- are there any free OSS virus scanners 
that scans files for windows viruses?
there are a few Linux AVs online.. whats your experience been like with 
them? who seem to have their house in order? who should i consider 
running on my linux boxes to keep the windows part of my network very happy?

Kerry
ps. these days there seem to be a lot of spam with viruses.. pretty 
annoying!




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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 22:03:27 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:03:27 -0400
Subject: virus scanner for linux
In-Reply-To: <3F7360B0.1060603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7360B0.1060603@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F73662F.20503@rogers.com>

Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> 
...
> of things.. so my question is- are there any free OSS virus scanners 
> that scans files for windows viruses?
> there are a few Linux AVs online.. whats your experience been like with 
> them? who seem to have their house in order? who should i consider 
> running on my linux boxes to keep the windows part of my network very 
> happy?
For 1.5 years I've been using DrWEB for Linux, attached to postfix, and 
  haven't had any problems with it. It isn't OpenSource, but there are 
freely available version and daily updates. See http://www.sald.com.

Regards,
Ilya.

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 22:51:28 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:51:28 -0400
Subject: test posting
In-Reply-To: <1064495938.11945.39.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064495938.11945.39.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <3F737170.7080003@rogers.com>

Nope, try again, I didn't get your email that I'm responding to ;)

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 22:58:14 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 18:58:14 -0400
Subject: Advocacy in schools, volunteers?
In-Reply-To: <200309232239.21587.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309232239.21587.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F737306.2050809@rogers.com>

> as a high-school teacher I could open the doors of my classroom to a 
> communicative individual that knows Linux and that is enthousiastic in 
> showing the hard stuff and the nice tricks we can perform with this 
> plateform. Last year I invited a specialist in Java J2EE to give a little 
> demo that was appreciated. Linux would be a great topic.

I think that we'd need to know more about the capabilities and interests 
of the students. We could whip up some really cool shit but if all 
they're interested in is haxx0ring their buddies IM clients or really 
cool graphics programs then I'm not sure what the point would be. Can 
you find out what would really tickle their fancy?


-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 23:06:57 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 19:06:57 -0400
Subject: Advocacy in schools, volunteers?
In-Reply-To: <3F737306.2050809-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309232239.21587.marc@lijour.net> <3F737306.2050809@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F737511.1060401@sympatico.ca>

Byron Sonne wrote:

>> as a high-school teacher I could open the doors of my classroom to a 
>> communicative individual that knows Linux and that is enthousiastic 
>> in showing the hard stuff and the nice tricks we can perform with 
>> this plateform. Last year I invited a specialist in Java J2EE to give 
>> a little demo that was appreciated. Linux would be a great topic.
>
>
> I think that we'd need to know more about the capabilities and 
> interests of the students. We could whip up some really cool shit but 
> if all they're interested in is haxx0ring their buddies IM clients or 
> really cool graphics programs then I'm not sure what the point would 
> be. Can you find out what would really tickle their fancy?
>
>
One thing I have done is do a day-long thing with grade 9-11 highschool 
students where we:
    (1) take apart and rebuild PCs.
    (2) install Linux on them
    (3) Play games on Linux

They seemed to love it.

Warren

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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Sep 25 23:38:27 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz Family)
Date: 25 Sep 2003 19:38:27 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <1064507402.2762.17.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <1064533106.1821.11.camel@venus.spacecontrol.mon>

I have a pamphlet for Logic Box Distribution in Miss_e._sauga
www.logicbox.com. They recycle and take monitors, but don't know if they
do it in small scale. I've been meaning to call them myself.

John.

On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 12:30, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> Hey everyone.
> 
> I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
> gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
> with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
> program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
> take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
> available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?

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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 00:02:08 2003
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 20:02:08 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <000d01c383ab$1b421df0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	 <000d01c383ab$1b421df0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <1064534527.5140.22.camel@rincewind.discworld>

I don't think so. Both of them are old and have taken more abuse than is
reasonable.  The one is a 21" Viewsonic that I bought refurbished about
6 years ago.  It's been moved 4 times (3 of which were half way across
the continent and one of which was done by a freight carrier *wince*)
and taken on a lot of car trips.  (I used it to head a machine I was
DJing with for a short period.)  And beyond that the usage time for it
was significant.

The other didn't completely die, but the sides of its picture became
very "curvy" and the image was shrunk a bit.  It's also fairly old,
maybe 6-8 years and has been moved more than is really healthy.

It's possible that the power is a little funky here.  We're in the
middle of downtown TO, although I guess that doesn't really say a whole
lot.  Any way to figure out whether the power is off and if so, any
suggestions on how to manage?  The power strips aren't the most
luxurious but they're functional.

On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 17:22, teddymills wrote:
> Two monitors toasted in the same week?
> Is the power or powerbars at your place suspect?  
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marcus Brubaker" <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2003 12:30 PM
> Subject: [TLUG]: What to do with dead monitors
> 
> 
> > Hey everyone.
> > 
> > I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
> > gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
> > with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
> > program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
> > take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
> > available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?
> > 
> > -- 
> > Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> --
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-- 
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

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From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:13:42 2003
From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:13:42 -0400
Subject: virus scanner for linux
In-Reply-To: <3F7360B0.1060603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7360B0.1060603@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200309252113.42025.mggagne@salmar.com>


Hello Kerry,

On September 25, 2003 05:40 pm, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> as we all know- windows viruses cant run on linux.. but very often we
> get email and files on our linux machines which may have viruses that we
> dont know about- these files-- viruses and all can be easily transferred
> over the network to a windows machine and well...... if your favourite
> anti-virus scanner does not scan it, then you could say bye bye to lots
> of things.. so my question is- are there any free OSS virus scanners
> that scans files for windows viruses?

I've used John Hardin's E-Mail Sanitizer with very good results.  It's free 
software, configurable in terms of how it responds to virus attachments, how 
it deals with them, and in its reporting.  It even includes a macro scanner. 
It's also very easy to set up.  Here's the link :

     http://www.impsec.org/email-tools/procmail-security.html

You'll notice that the Sanitizer uses procmail.  I mention this because you 
can add a pretty powerful virus protection in seconds with a simple procmail 
"recipe".  Here's one I use on a couple of systems.  Just put the following 
lines in your /etc/procmailrc file.

     :0 HB:
     * ^Content-Type:.*(application|audio|multipart)
     * name.*=.*\.(bat|exe|pif|vbs|scr)
     /dev/null

Simply stated, this little bit of code will look for any .bat, .exe., .pif, 
.vbs, and .scr attachments and fire them immediately to /dev/null.  Quite 
honestly, I figure anything coming in with those attachments qualify 
immediately as viruses.  That makes for pretty powerful, not to mention 
simple, virus protection.

Hope that helps.  Take care out there.

-- 
Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn?
Note:  This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered.
Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/
Author : "Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!"
   Also by Marcel : Linux System Administration, A User's Guide
Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.salmar.com/marcel/wftllugform.html
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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:16:14 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:16:14 -0400
Subject: virus scanner for linux
In-Reply-To: <3F73662F.20503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7360B0.1060603@rogers.com> <3F73662F.20503@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200309252116.14925.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

On Thursday 25 September 2003 6:03 pm, Ilya Palagin wrote:
> Kerry Panchoo wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > of things.. so my question is- are there any free OSS virus scanners
> > that scans files for windows viruses?
> > there are a few Linux AVs online.. whats your experience been like with
> > them? who seem to have their house in order? who should i consider
> > running on my linux boxes to keep the windows part of my network very
> > happy?
>
> For 1.5 years I've been using DrWEB for Linux, attached to postfix, and
>   haven't had any problems with it. It isn't OpenSource, but there are
> freely available version and daily updates. See http://www.sald.com.
>
Are you using the 60 EUR / year linux professional version or the 540 EUR 
/year linux Daemon version?

Charly Baker
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:02:36 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:02:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <53001.199.64.0.252.1064506191.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
        <53001.199.64.0.252.1064506191.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I advise *not* throwing them off a tall building, or at least not from
> your building.  While the the bang and resulting scatter is cool, the
> neighbour complaints are ungood, even with a good ground crew.
> Of course, I'd *never* do such a thing myself.

They're considered toxic.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:25:07 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:25:07 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>; from kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w@public.gmane.org on Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 09:02:36PM -0400
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld> <53001.199.64.0.252.1064506191.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20030925212507.B13799@ee.ryerson.ca>


Somewhere I have a picture of Robert Pease, guru of the analog circuit
design world (who is participating in a seminar in Toronto on Oct 2nd),
hurling a monitor off the top of a parking garage, thereby to express his
opinion of computer simulations.

There is also a picture of the remains of the monitor, after its landing in
the parking lot.

Peter

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 09:02:36PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
> > I advise *not* throwing them off a tall building, or at least not from
> > your building.  While the the bang and resulting scatter is cool, the
> > neighbour complaints are ungood, even with a good ground crew.
> > Of course, I'd *never* do such a thing myself.
> 
> They're considered toxic.
> 
> -- 
> Keith Mastin
> BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> Toronto, Canada
> (416)696 6070
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:33:33 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:33:33 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <1064500709.1692.27.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251038080.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <1064500709.1692.27.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F73976D.4060305@rogers.com>

Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 03:38, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
>>On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Alex Maynard wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Thank you all so much for your help! Copying over the bad libraries from
>>>the working distribution apparently did the trick.
>>
>>But you will never be sure you fixed everything. Only everything you have
>>*tested*.
> 
> 
> *groan*  How monk of you.  One cannot determine the absence of problems,
> only the presence.

I once had a manager, who figured we should be able to find all the 
problems.  He never mentioned if he had any way of measuring that 
requirement.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:36:20 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:36:20 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <1064507402.2762.17.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <3F739814.2060601@rogers.com>

Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> Hey everyone.
> 
> I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
> gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
> with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
> program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
> take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
> available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?
> 

I don't know about Toronto, but Mississauga will properly handle such 
things, but you have to drop them off at the recycling depot.


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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:55:40 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:55:40 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
Message-ID: <20030925215540.3e0564bf.hgibson@eol.ca>

   Does anyone know of a bulletproof strategy for sending email to Mac OS/X users?

   I just tried to forward a file using Sylpheed.  The recipient has replied saying that she cannot read MIME attachments.  I do not have access to her machine, so I do not know what she is seeing on her screen.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:50:20 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:50:20 -0400
Subject: virus scanner for linux
In-Reply-To: <200309252116.14925.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7360B0.1060603@rogers.com> <3F73662F.20503@rogers.com> <200309252116.14925.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
Message-ID: <3F739B5C.20306@rogers.com>

Charly Baker wrote:
...
>>
>>For 1.5 years I've been using DrWEB for Linux, attached to postfix, and
>>  haven't had any problems with it. It isn't OpenSource, but there are
>>freely available version and daily updates. See http://www.sald.com.
>>
> 
> Are you using the 60 EUR / year linux professional version or the 540 EUR 
> /year linux Daemon version?
> 
I use a free version, the Linux package includes scanner and daemon, 
postfix client is available separately. Free one lacks some functions I 
don't need anyway. For example, it doesn't desinfect attachments and 
doesn't check archives, just puts infected messages into a "quarantine" 
catalog and sends notifications to the sender and the respondent. It's 
enough for me.

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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 01:52:44 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 21:52:44 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>        <53001.199.64.0.252.1064506191.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F739BEC.4040908@rogers.com>

Keith Mastin wrote:
>>I advise *not* throwing them off a tall building, or at least not from
>>your building.  While the the bang and resulting scatter is cool, the
>>neighbour complaints are ungood, even with a good ground crew.
>>Of course, I'd *never* do such a thing myself.
> 
> 
> They're considered toxic.
> 
Well, one of the mentioned monitors is 21". Must be spectacular.

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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 02:15:38 2003
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 22:15:38 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	 <53001.199.64.0.252.1064506191.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
	 <23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <1064542538.5140.38.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 21:02, Keith Mastin wrote:
> > I advise *not* throwing them off a tall building, or at least not from
> > your building.  While the the bang and resulting scatter is cool, the
> > neighbour complaints are ungood, even with a good ground crew.
> > Of course, I'd *never* do such a thing myself.
> 
> They're considered toxic.

Yup.  The CRT is something like 30% lead by weight on average and an
average monitor is 80% CRT by weight.  If you do the numbers, that's a
lot of lead in the average 70lb 21" monitor :)  Beyond that, the lead is
still useful if separated, as is the glass.  Hence the desire to recycle
them.

-- 
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

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From mgalea-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 03:50:57 2003
From: mgalea-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Michael Galea)
Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 23:50:57 -0400
Subject: Has anyone used an ATI Radeon 7500 with Linux for Video capture?
Message-ID: <200309252350.57895.mgalea@eol.ca>

I need to capture the family movies from my camcorder onto digital media.
I am hoping to use a Radeon 7500 (has a TV in and MPEG encoder feature) to 
capture and then burn to DVD.
Has anyone had experience with this card (or others), and if so, have you been 
happy with the results?  I have read that the card can encode 30 fps of 
720x480 bits.  Does this produce acceptable video quality?

 
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 04:05:05 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 00:05:05 -0400
Subject: Has anyone used an ATI Radeon 7500 with Linux for Video
 capture?
In-Reply-To: <200309252350.57895.mgalea-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309252350.57895.mgalea@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F73BAF1.8080303@rogers.com>

Michael Galea wrote:
> I need to capture the family movies from my camcorder onto digital media.
> I am hoping to use a Radeon 7500 (has a TV in and MPEG encoder feature) to 
> capture and then burn to DVD.
> Has anyone had experience with this card (or others), and if so, have you been 
> happy with the results?  I have read that the card can encode 30 fps of 
> 720x480 bits.  Does this produce acceptable video quality?
> 
I've got ASUS V9520 with TV-in (S-Video and regular), TV-out and two VGA 
out. Once I experimenting with it, and DVD quality was acceptable (at 
least for me, I watched picture on the monitor) with regular TV-in, with 
S-Video it should be better. By the way, despite this card has NTSC 
label, it allows to decode signal from PAL, with some quality degradation.

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 10:12:33 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:12:33 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <3F73976D.4060305-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
  <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251038080.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <1064500709.1692.27.camel@localhost>
 <3F73976D.4060305@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261310170.548@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, James Knott wrote:
> I once had a manager, who figured we should be able to find all the
> problems.  He never mentioned if he had any way of measuring that
> requirement.

You know what ? I think I know where that manager works now.

I was not trying to pe picky. Fixing a library that was corrupted and
declaring the system good is dangerous imho. Several applications that
need to run on that system would need to be tested (at least the ones the
system is used for normally, besides system functions proper).

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 10:19:28 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 13:19:28 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Has anyone used an ATI Radeon 7500 with Linux for Video
 capture?
In-Reply-To: <200309252350.57895.mgalea-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309252350.57895.mgalea@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261317330.548@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Michael Galea wrote:

> I need to capture the family movies from my camcorder onto digital
> media. I am hoping to use a Radeon 7500 (has a TV in and MPEG encoder
> feature) to capture and then burn to DVD. Has anyone had experience with
> this card (or others), and if so, have you been happy with the results?
> I have read that the card can encode 30 fps of 720x480 bits.  Does this
> produce acceptable video quality?

720x480 is standard TV resolution and roughly equivalent in quality to
800x600 on a computer screen. I used to use a TV capture card that had a
similar resolution and the picture on the monitor was far above average TV
quality (at 720x???).

Peter
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 12:07:17 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:07:17 -0400
Subject: laptop with international warranty & support
In-Reply-To: Message from lsorense@csclub.uwaterloo.ca (Lennart Sorensen) 
   of: 28:40 EDT." <20030925142840.GG13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> 
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost> <3F709958.1010708@onlink.net> <5.2.0.9.0.20030924093212.09dad410@localhost> <5.2.0.9.0.20030924191842.097ec4a8@localhost>  <20030925142840.GG13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20030926120718.CAF0B4008@cbbrowne.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > E-machines has only popped up recently in the retail chain. There is an 
> > after market for IBM, Compaq, HP and parts and service for them are not 
> > difficult to obtain. Who knows what E-machines laptops will be like? If we 
> > can use their desktop machines as a point of reference, they will 
> > essentially be disposable machines.

> Yeah, I remember the emachines desktops.  Supposedly the company has
> gone through a major overhaul a couple of years ago, and is pretty
> good now.  Time will tell of course.

They have a laptop that looks quite tempting; it would surely be nice if
they have gotten past "disposability."

Vis-a-vis laptops, I was always under the impression that there were
hardly any of the "manufacturers" that actually were the _true
manufacturers_ of the laptops.  And that they are actually built by
companies in Asia whose names you wouldn't likely recognize, but who
then relabel them for Dell, Compaq, HP, and such.  See:
<http://www.laptopworldwide.com/>

If eMachines are buying their laptops from the same Taiwanese
manufacturers that Compaq, IBM, HP, and such buy from, there is no
reason to expect them to be "disposables."
--
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http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/postgresql.html
"Anyway I know how to not be bothered by consing on the fly."
-- Dave Moon
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 12:13:00 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:13:00 -0400
Subject: Looking for computer Co-op placement (warning this is a job seaker posting)
In-Reply-To: Message from Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 55:21 EDT." <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309250849550.16235-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> 
References: <3F710955.6030409@truxtar.com> <20030925032721.59039.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com> <bkto4m$acf$1@sea.gmane.org> <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504@ns.istop.com> <bkts7c$euu$1@sea.gmane.org>  <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309250849550.16235@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20030926121301.36AC64008@cbbrowne.com>

> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Tom wrote:
> 
> >
> > "Ralph Doncaster" <ralph@ g=C5=A4;=0E=86=803=A0=CAvgi
> > =B1> wrote in message news:Pine.LNX.4.51.0309242358350.30504-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org=
> =2E..
> > > If you're smart, hard-working, posess interpersonal skills, and are goo=
> d
> > > with Linux you'll have no trouble finding work.  If you hold an MCSE an=
> d
> > > program in VB I'd say a career change is in order...
> >
> > Not true.  In software development there are no jobs in Linux at all.
> 
> Really?  Did xandros and e-smith close down recently?  And since when
> did the Linux kernel API become incompatible with Solaris and HP/UX?
> 10 years ago things like getclock()/gettimeofday() were a bit quirky,
> but now a 1st-yr college student could easily write a C program
> portable across all three operating systems.

It also begs the question of how many people actually write software
"for Linux."

People working with GNOME aren't; GNOME works on other platforms as
well.  Ditto for KDE.  The same is true of most of the software that
happens to run on Linux.

People don't normally write software 'for Linux;' they write it 'for
Unix,' which, once you get GLIBC between you and the kernel, is pretty
satisfactory.
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 12:40:32 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:40:32 -0400
Subject: Unable to log-in
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261310170.548-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca> <3F73976D.4060305@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261310170.548@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <200309260840.32640.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 26 September 2003 06:12, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> I was not trying to pe picky. Fixing a library that was corrupted and
> declaring the system good is dangerous imho. Several applications that
> need to run on that system would need to be tested (at least the ones the
> system is used for normally, besides system functions proper).

If you're worried that some things are corrupt you can always reinstall 
everything.

Once while moving around my raid arrays I had began formating /dev/hda instead 
of /dev/hdaX, I cancelled fairly quickly but it had been enough to destroy a 
portion of one RAID array.  Can't remember entirely how I recovered 
everything but a good part of it was trying to figure out what packages had 
been installed and then "apt-get install --reinstall every friggin thing".

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 12:37:22 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:37:22 -0400
Subject: MS Shenanigans
Message-ID: <20030926083722.198917a3.joehill@sympatico.ca>


A report blasting (and I mean *blasting*) MS for illegal market
manipulation and egregious inattention to security flaws has some
people's knickers in a knot:

Story:

http://news.com.com/2100-1029-5081214.html

Report:

http://www.ccianet.org/papers/cyberinsecurity.pdf

and actually got one of the authors fired from AtStake, a company formed
by the once oh-so-self-righteous L0pht group:

http://securityfocus.com/news/7069

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't kid yourself.  Little is relevant, and nothing lasts forever.
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 12:59:21 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 08:59:21 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030925215540.3e0564bf.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030925215540.3e0564bf.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>

On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 21:55, Howard Gibson wrote:
>    Does anyone know of a bulletproof strategy for sending email to Mac OS/X users?
> 
>    I just tried to forward a file using Sylpheed.  The recipient has replied saying that she cannot read MIME attachments.  I do not have access to her machine, so I do not know what she is seeing on her screen.
> 

For larger attachments or files that I need to distribute to more than a
couple of people, I usually stick the file somewhere on my http/ftp
server then send a link.  You may have to revert to this here.

Though it strikes me as very odd that OSX can't deal with MIME
attachments.

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Out of life's school of war: What does not destroy me, makes
  me stronger.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche, The Twilight of the Idols (1899)
 ********************************************************************/

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 13:02:03 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 09:02:03 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <20030925212507.B13799-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	<53001.199.64.0.252.1064506191.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
	<23092.216.138.194.32.1064538156.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> 
	<20030925212507.B13799@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <1064581324.10951.6.camel@yoda>

On Thu, 2003-09-25 at 21:25, Peter Hiscocks wrote:
> Somewhere I have a picture of Robert Pease, guru of the analog circuit
> design world (who is participating in a seminar in Toronto on Oct 2nd),
> hurling a monitor off the top of a parking garage, thereby to express his
> opinion of computer simulations.
> 
> There is also a picture of the remains of the monitor, after its landing in
> the parking lot.
> 
> Peter

If you should happen to find the picture, could you please scan it and
either post or send it to me?  I do a fair bit of analog design, it
would be neat to have that on the wall somewhere.

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Out of life's school of war: What does not destroy me, makes
  me stronger.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche, The Twilight of the Idols (1899)
 ********************************************************************/

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 13:30:24 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 09:30:24 -0400
Subject: virus scanner for linux
In-Reply-To: <3F7360B0.1060603-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7360B0.1060603@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030926133024.GK13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Sep 25, 2003 at 05:40:00PM -0400, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> as we all know- windows viruses cant run on linux.. but very often we 
> get email and files on our linux machines which may have viruses that we 
> dont know about- these files-- viruses and all can be easily transferred 
> over the network to a windows machine and well...... if your favourite 
> anti-virus scanner does not scan it, then you could say bye bye to lots 
> of things.. so my question is- are there any free OSS virus scanners 
> that scans files for windows viruses?
> there are a few Linux AVs online.. whats your experience been like with 
> them? who seem to have their house in order? who should i consider 
> running on my linux boxes to keep the windows part of my network very happy?
> 
> Kerry
> ps. these days there seem to be a lot of spam with viruses.. pretty 
> annoying!

Well I use exim + mailscanner + spamassassin + f-prot to do all the
email scanning.  F-prot has a free linux client, that uses the same
virus definisions as the windows client.  Has worked pretty well for me.
Not sure how the open source stuff is doing (clamav and such).

Lennart Sorensen
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 10:19:41 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 06:19:41 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <1064581161.10950.3.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>; from kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 08:59:21 -0400
References: <20030925215540.3e0564bf.hgibson@eol.ca> <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <20030926101941.GE2285@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/26/2003 08:59:21 AM, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> Though it strikes me as very odd that OSX can't deal with MIME
> attachments.

Come on, let's be realistic.  MIME is over ten years old, isn't it?  If Macs  
can't decode MIME, then they must be planning their own demise.

Is it a work machine?  It's not uncommon for employers to ban attachments  
these days, although I'd assume that would be done to Windows machines, not  
Mac OS X of all things...

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 14:19:59 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:19:59 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <1064507402.2762.17.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064507402.2762.17.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030926101516.032522c0@localhost>

At 12:30 PM 25/09/2003 -0400, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
>Hey everyone.
>
>I just had two of my monitors die within a week of each other.  I've
>gotten new monitors to replace them now, but I don't know what to do
>with the old ones.  Does anyone know of a local CRT monitor recycling
>program?  IBM has a program oriented towards businesses where they'll
>take everything and recycle it for $30 but I'm not sure if it's
>available in Canada and I'd prefer free.  Any suggestions anyone?

Toronto has had "Environment Day" every weekend some place since June where 
people can drop off things like plastic shopping bags, non recyclable 
plastics, polystyrene objects, books, clothes, computer equipment, and 
various other things that really should not go into landfills. I believe 
the last one for the year is on Saturday at MacGregor Park Arena in 
Scarborough. You should be able to by looking at the City of Toronto web 
site <http://city.toronto.on.ca> or by calling. You might be able to drop 
it off at transfer stations if the Environment Day events are not 
convenient for you.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 14:25:33 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 10:25:33 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926101941.GE2285-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030925215540.3e0564bf.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> 
	<20030926101941.GE2285@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <1064586333.10951.28.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 06:19, Austin wrote:
> On 09/26/2003 08:59:21 AM, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> > Though it strikes me as very odd that OSX can't deal with MIME
> > attachments.
> 
> Come on, let's be realistic.  MIME is over ten years old, isn't it?  If Macs  
> can't decode MIME, then they must be planning their own demise.
> 
> Is it a work machine?  It's not uncommon for employers to ban attachments  
> these days, although I'd assume that would be done to Windows machines, not  
> Mac OS X of all things...
> 
> Austin

I get the impression that this is a PIBKAC type of problem.  Either that
or a very poor email client on an otherwise good platform.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Out of life's school of war: What does not destroy me, makes
  me stronger.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche, The Twilight of the Idols (1899)
 ********************************************************************/

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 14:28:49 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:28:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <1064542538.5140.38.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064542538.5140.38.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> Yup.  The CRT is something like 30% lead by weight on average and an
> average monitor is 80% CRT by weight...  Beyond that, the lead is
> still useful if separated, as is the glass...

Unless CRT design has changed since the last time I looked, you don't get
the lead separate from the glass, because the lead is *in* the glass. 
It's lead glass -- glass with a high lead-oxide content.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 15:07:37 2003
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:07:37 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <1064588857.5140.44.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 10:28, Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> > Yup.  The CRT is something like 30% lead by weight on average and an
> > average monitor is 80% CRT by weight...  Beyond that, the lead is
> > still useful if separated, as is the glass...
> 
> Unless CRT design has changed since the last time I looked, you don't get
> the lead separate from the glass, because the lead is *in* the glass. 
> It's lead glass -- glass with a high lead-oxide content.
> 

As I understand it there are processes by which the lead and glass can
be separated, which is what a lot of the CRT recycling places do.

-- 
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 14:46:16 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 10:46:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064542538.5140.38.camel@rincewind.discworld>
        <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <24084.216.138.194.32.1064587576.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
>> Yup.  The CRT is something like 30% lead by weight on average and an
>> average monitor is 80% CRT by weight...  Beyond that, the lead is
>> still useful if separated, as is the glass...
>
> Unless CRT design has changed since the last time I looked, you don't
> get the lead separate from the glass, because the lead is *in* the
> glass.  It's lead glass -- glass with a high lead-oxide content.

The design hasn't changed. I have a place in Hamilton that comes and picks
up old systems for recycling. They send the monitors out to Noronada in
Quebec to dispose of in the slag at the smelter. according to them,
there's no other safe way of disposing of them. Its the lead and the
phosphors they're concerned about.


-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 15:09:04 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:09:04 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
References: <1064542538.5140.38.camel@rincewind.discworld>        <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000@spsystems.net> <24084.216.138.194.32.1064587576.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <001701c38440$21d42330$0200a8c0@viper>


I have always wanted to "SCTV" a computer/monitor thats been psng me off.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 10:46 AM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: What to do with dead monitors


>
> > On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> >> Yup.  The CRT is something like 30% lead by weight on average and an
> >> average monitor is 80% CRT by weight...  Beyond that, the lead is
> >> still useful if separated, as is the glass...
> >
> > Unless CRT design has changed since the last time I looked, you don't
> > get the lead separate from the glass, because the lead is *in* the
> > glass.  It's lead glass -- glass with a high lead-oxide content.
>
> The design hasn't changed. I have a place in Hamilton that comes and picks
> up old systems for recycling. They send the monitors out to Noronada in
> Quebec to dispose of in the slag at the smelter. according to them,
> there's no other safe way of disposing of them. Its the lead and the
> phosphors they're concerned about.
>
>
> --
> Keith Mastin
> BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> Toronto, Canada
> (416)696 6070
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 15:10:01 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:10:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <1064588857.5140.44.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064588857.5140.44.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926110048.17075D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Marcus Brubaker wrote:
> > Unless CRT design has changed since the last time I looked, you don't get
> > the lead separate from the glass, because the lead is *in* the glass. 
> > It's lead glass -- glass with a high lead-oxide content.
> 
> As I understand it there are processes by which the lead and glass can
> be separated, which is what a lot of the CRT recycling places do.

I'm not up on current recycling processes, but I think you may have missed
my point, which is that there is no separate lead involved -- it's just a
type of glass with high lead-oxide content.  Take the lead oxide out
somehow and what you've got is no longer usable as glass.  (Although you
could probably *reduce* the lead-oxide content somewhat and still have a
practical glass.)

(Glass is based on silica, SiO2, but straight silica glass has a very high
melting point and is very difficult to work with; practical glass for
normal uses always includes other oxides to lower the melting point. 
Most ordinary glass is soda-lime glass, with sodium and calcium oxides,
but the other low-melting glass is lead glass, using lead oxide.  Fine
crystal, for example, is often lead glass, because it bends light more
than soda-lime glass and hence glitters more impressively.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 15:29:10 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 26 Sep 2003 11:29:10 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <001701c38440$21d42330$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064542538.5140.38.camel@rincewind.discworld>       
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000@spsystems.net>
	<24084.216.138.194.32.1064587576.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> 
	<001701c38440$21d42330$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <1064590150.10950.33.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-09-26 at 11:09, teddymills wrote:
> 
> I have always wanted to "SCTV" a computer/monitor thats been psng me off.

Any volunteers for ground crew?  We could make this into an event - or
better yet, a precursor to the Tuesday meetings.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Out of life's school of war: What does not destroy me, makes
  me stronger.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche, The Twilight of the Idols (1899)
 ********************************************************************/

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 15:47:25 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:47:25 -0400
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
References: <1064542538.5140.38.camel@rincewind.discworld>        <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000@spsystems.net> <24084.216.138.194.32.1064587576.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <001701c38440$21d42330$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <005b01c38445$7baf4600$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>


"teddymills" <teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org> on Friday, September 26, 2003 11:09 AM
wrote:

> I have always wanted to "SCTV" a computer/monitor thats been psng me off.

Of further note, the opening sequence from SCTV where one sees all the TV
sets tossed off the balconies of an apartment building was filmed on
Roehampton Ave., here in Toronto (and down the street from me).

Colin McGregor

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 15:30:57 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 11:30:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: What to do with dead monitors
In-Reply-To: <001701c38440$21d42330$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064542538.5140.38.camel@rincewind.discworld>
        <Pine.BSI.3.91.1030926102635.16058D-100000@spsystems.net>
        <24084.216.138.194.32.1064587576.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <001701c38440$21d42330$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <24361.216.138.194.32.1064590257.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I have always wanted to "SCTV" a computer/monitor thats been psng me
> off.

:) ...we all have, I'm sure. If you want to do this, fill yer boots. I
think it would be prudent to make sure you know about any environmental or
health hazards first.



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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 20:57:59 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:57:59 -0400
Subject: Screenshots, legal/illegal?
Message-ID: <200309261657.59140.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

I'm considering setting up a website that will (hopefully) have a lot of 
screenshots from popular programs such as Microsoft Outlook, Mozilla, kmail, 
etc.

I've done similar things for clients on a small scale but I'm wondering before 
bothering with this idea if there might be anything illegal about putting up 
screenshots of commercial programs (my only real worry would be with 
Microsoft Outlook).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 21:06:52 2003
From: tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org (Mailing List)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:06:52 -0400
Subject: PDF/gs or LaTeX problem
Message-ID: <E1A2zng-0000g4-00@cage.robertsearle.com>

Hi,

  I have only recently got this problem.  I think
latex is fine, since I get what looks like valid
postscript.  I only get this problem when I run 
ps2pdf...

Error: /undefined in 0.8,
Operand stack:

Execution stack:
   %interp_exit   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   false   1   %stopped_push   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--
Dictionary stack:
   --dict:1063/1123(ro)(G)--   --dict:0/20(G)--   --dict:86/200(L)--   --dict:208/300(L)--
Current allocation mode is local
Last OS error: 2
Current file position is 197049
GNU Ghostscript 7.07: Unrecoverable error, exit code 1


Any ideas?
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 21:11:03 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:11:03 -0400
Subject: Screenshots, legal/illegal?
In-Reply-To: <200309261657.59140.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309261657.59140.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030926171103.61973945.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:57:59 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I've done similar things for clients on a small scale but I'm
> wondering before bothering with this idea if there might be anything
> illegal about putting up screenshots of commercial programs (my only
> real worry would be with Microsoft Outlook).

If you are doing it in the sense of a 'review' or some kind of
explanation of the software, I am quite sure you are not violating
anyone's IP, tho in today's climate I can understand your concern!

-- JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of
death.
		-- Miyamoto Musashi, 1645
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 21:11:08 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:11:08 -0400
Subject: Screenshots, legal/illegal?
In-Reply-To: <200309261657.59140.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309261657.59140.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030926171108.215077f8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 16:57:59 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I've done similar things for clients on a small scale but I'm
> wondering before bothering with this idea if there might be anything
> illegal about putting up screenshots of commercial programs (my only
> real worry would be with Microsoft Outlook).

If you are doing it in the sense of a 'review' or some kind of
explanation of the software, I am quite sure you are not violating
anyone's IP, tho in today's climate I can understand your concern!

-- JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of
death.
		-- Miyamoto Musashi, 1645
--
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From mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 21:36:47 2003
From: mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:36:47 -0400
Subject: Screenshots, legal/illegal?
In-Reply-To: <200309261657.59140.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309261657.59140.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200309261736.47266.mggagne@salmar.com>


Hello Fraser,

On September 26, 2003 04:57 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote:
>
> I'm considering setting up a website that will (hopefully) have a lot of
> screenshots from popular programs such as Microsoft Outlook, Mozilla,
> kmail, etc.

As a guy who has used hundreds (thousands) of screenshots in articles, 
tutorials, and books, perhaps I might help.  There is no law stopping you 
from writing about software or explaining how things work.  In doing so, it 
is considered natural and right that you should be able to include 
screenshots.  The real concern is whether you are using those screenshots to 
damage a company's reputation or displaying private or confidential 
information.  Pretty much anything else is fair game.  A screenshot of an 
email package in action is fine (unless you are showing off private mail from 
somebody who would prefer to remain private).  Use your judgement and you 
should be fine.

Given that you are primarily concerned about Microsoft's reaction, you might 
want to check out what they have to say about it on this page.  The 
information are looking for is about 3/4 of the way down the page.

     http://www.microsoft.com/permission/copyrgt/cop-img.htm

Hope that helps.  Good luck with the website and take care out there.

--
Marcel (Writer and Free Thinker at Large) Gagn?
Note:  This massagee wos nat speel or gramer-checkered.
Mandatory home page reference - http://www.marcelgagne.com/
Author : "Moving to Linux: Kiss the Blue Screen of Death Goodbye!"
   Also by Marcel : Linux System Administration, A User's Guide
Join the WFTL-LUG : http://www.salmar.com/marcel/wftllugform.html
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From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 22:03:50 2003
From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:03:50 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <1064581161.10950.3.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>

On Friday, September 26, 2003, at 08:59 AM, Kareem Shehata wrote:

> Though it strikes me as very odd that OSX can't deal with MIME
> attachments.

Don't believe it.  With all the garbage going around in attachments, I 
almost *wish* my OS X mail reader didn't deal with MIME. :-)
...and for that matter, the OS itself probably doesn't get a vote.

I can't guess from the description what the problem is, but I've 
received all types of attachments on my Macs, sent from Linux, 
Windows(es), and Solaris without any complaint.  I usually use the Mail 
client that's distributed with the system.

........................
Phillip Mills
Multi-platform software development
(416) 224-0714

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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 22:52:10 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:52:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: /dev/mixer
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261848250.24467@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

I'm presently working in windowmaker with no decent graphical mixer program.
I've attempted to use /dev/mixer but I continuously get a permission denied,
even after I have su - to root.  Root is a member of the sys group is there a
reason why root is being denied access to this program?  When I do an ls -l  I
get crw-rw----    1 root     sys       14,   0 Jul 18  1994 /dev/mixer
Does anyone know how I can fix this?

Thanks

Gardner


 18:48:25 up 7 days,  7:34,  3 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:09:17 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:09:17 -0400
Subject: /dev/mixer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261848250.24467-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261848250.24467@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030926190917.1698073f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:52:10 -0400 (EDT)
gbell72 <gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I'm presently working in windowmaker with no decent graphical mixer
> program. I've attempted to use /dev/mixer but I continuously get a
> permission denied, even after I have su - to root.  Root is a member
> of the sys group is there a reason why root is being denied access to
> this program?  When I do an ls -l  I get crw-rw----    1 root     sys 
>      14,   0 Jul 18  1994 /dev/mixer
> Does anyone know how I can fix this?

I get this:

lr-xr-xr-x    1 root     root           11 Sep 26 10:45 /dev/mixer ->

which look like even more restrictive perms (what the heck is the "c"?)
and I'm able to use wmsmixer to control the sound. It's a pretty cool
dockapp available from here:

http://www.bensinclair.com/dockapp/showcat.php3?type=Audio

In the end you could just chmod and chgrp, if necessary, no?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's
incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here."
		-- Muad'dib, "Dune"
--
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:12:30 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:12:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: /dev/mixer
In-Reply-To: <20030926190917.1698073f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261848250.24467@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <20030926190917.1698073f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261910450.24483@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

I've chmod 666 if that is the correct seting already and as for the c I have no
clue, possibly because /dev/mixer is part of the sys and not audio group.
Slackware is a bit different from what I'm used.  I'll try that app, thx

Gardner

 19:10:45 up 7 days,  7:56,  3 users,  load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:52:10 -0400 (EDT)
> gbell72 <gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > I'm presently working in windowmaker with no decent graphical mixer
> > program. I've attempted to use /dev/mixer but I continuously get a
> > permission denied, even after I have su - to root.  Root is a member
> > of the sys group is there a reason why root is being denied access to
> > this program?  When I do an ls -l  I get crw-rw----    1 root     sys
> >      14,   0 Jul 18  1994 /dev/mixer
> > Does anyone know how I can fix this?
>
> I get this:
>
> lr-xr-xr-x    1 root     root           11 Sep 26 10:45 /dev/mixer ->
>
> which look like even more restrictive perms (what the heck is the "c"?)
> and I'm able to use wmsmixer to control the sound. It's a pretty cool
> dockapp available from here:
>
> http://www.bensinclair.com/dockapp/showcat.php3?type=Audio
>
> In the end you could just chmod and chgrp, if necessary, no?
>
> --
> JoeHill
> Registered Linux user #282046
> Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's
> incomplete and saying: "Now it's complete because it's ended here."
> 		-- Muad'dib, "Dune"
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
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From reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:22:57 2003
From: reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (rh)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:22:57 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:03:50 -0400
Phillip Mills <pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Friday, September 26, 2003, at 08:59 AM, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> 
> > Though it strikes me as very odd that OSX can't deal with MIME
> > attachments.
> 
> Don't believe it.  With all the garbage going around in attachments, I 
> almost *wish* my OS X mail reader didn't deal with MIME. :-)
> ...and for that matter, the OS itself probably doesn't get a vote.
> 
> I can't guess from the description what the problem is, but I've 
> received all types of attachments on my Macs, sent from Linux, 
> Windows(es), and Solaris without any complaint.  I usually use the Mail 
> client that's distributed with the system.
> 

Perhaps it is sylpheed ( I think that is what the original post said he was using) that is the problem. I, too, sent attachments to someone with a Mac who also could not open the attachments. Later found out that it didn't matter who or what I was sending them to, no one could open them. As it turned out it was one particular version of sylpheed-claws that was the problem. I upgraded and the 'problem' went away.

Just a thought.


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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 19:40:00 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:40:00 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 19:22:57 -0400
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca> <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/26/2003 07:22:57 PM, rh wrote:
> Perhaps it is sylpheed ( I think that is what the original post said he was
> using) that is the problem. I, too, sent attachments to someone with a Mac
> who also could not open the attachments. Later found out that it didn't
> matter who or what I was sending them to, no one could open them.

Why would anyone use sylpheed over balsa anyway?  ;-)

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:35:53 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:35:53 -0400
Subject: /dev/mixer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261910450.24483-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261848250.24467@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
	<20030926190917.1698073f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261910450.24483@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030926193553.4bef8a34.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:12:30 -0400 (EDT)
gbell72 <gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Slackware is a bit different from what I'm used.

Ya, from what i've heard, Slack handles the sound system differently,
some say better, than other distros. 

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Beauty is one of the rare things which does not lead to doubt of God.
		-- Jean Anouilh
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:40:13 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:40:13 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926194000.GA2336-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030926194013.326d40fd.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:40:00 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Why would anyone use sylpheed over balsa anyway?  ;-)

Hey, that looks nice! I wasn't even aware that existed, I just chose
Sylpheed because it was nice and light. I like Sylpheed, but there are
some things that bug me like the address book.

Is Balsa GTK+2? It would be cool if it was, that's another thing that I
don't like about Sylpheed.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At the end of your life there'll be a good rest, and no further
activities
are scheduled.
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:42:48 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:42:48 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926194000.GA2336-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030926194248.1ff28011.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:40:00 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Why would anyone use sylpheed over balsa anyway?  ;-)

Eeeewww, I don't like this, is there a way to disable it?

"Why does Balsa defaults to the HTML-Part?
    A multipart/alternative message is ordered from least to most
faithful rendering of the alternative versions of a document. A mail
client is expected to select the highest quality versions of the
document that it supports. If a text/html version is after the
text/plain in multipart/alternative, then from the sender's perspective,
the text/html is the higher quality version and Balsa is correct to
select it. See RFC 2046."

RFC or no RFC, I don't want people's blue and yellow giant fonts burning
my retinas... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is only with the heart one can see clearly; what is essential is
invisible to the eye.
		-- The Fox, 'The Little Prince"
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:42:10 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:42:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: apology
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261941160.24504@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

Sorry Mr Hill I just realized I replied to your direct address rather than to
the tlug address, again I aplogize.

 19:41:16 up 7 days,  8:27,  3 users,  load average: 0.02, 0.02, 0.00
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Sep 26 23:48:41 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:48:41 -0400
Subject: apology
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261941160.24504-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261941160.24504@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20030926194841.7d6bf291.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 19:42:10 -0400 (EDT)
gbell72 <gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Sorry Mr Hill I just realized I replied to your direct address rather
> than to the tlug address, again I aplogize.

No problemo!

Filter put it in the right folder, that's all that matters!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If something has not yet gone wrong then it would ultimately have been
beneficial for it to go wrong.
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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 01:15:16 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:15:16 -0400
Subject: ADSL Connection (solution)
Message-ID: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>

Hi all,

In the past weeks, I asked for your help because I was not able to get my ADSL connection up and running.  After having checking everything, we all agreed that it was something weird and/or stupid.

Actually, it was because of something very stupid: (please do not laugh) because I relied on Bell.

After having opening 2 tickets to Bell (one from my provider to Bell Nexxia to check their network) and one from me to Bell Residential (to come in to check my inside phone installation), the answer was: everything is fine and you are the problem (it is not was they said but it was what it meant).  Of course, my provider did not do what to do but opened another ticket to Bell Nexxia.  And guess what: I received a phone call 2 days ago to ask me to check whether my connection was working.  Of course, it was working and when I asked the question, the answer was: "Oh, it was a programming not completed on our side."

I do not know how Bell is working but it would be very interesting to have them explaining how they can test a network with a faulty configuration and find it okay.

anyway, I would like to thank all of you for your help.

Gilles

PS: By the way, I just switched to EOL.  Technically speaking, they are not that good but they care about their customers, which as important (not to say more).
--
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 01:16:17 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:16:17 -0400
Subject: Screenshots, legal/illegal?
In-Reply-To: <200309261736.47266.mggagne-oUREY1nl/XXQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309261657.59140.fraser@wehave.net> <200309261736.47266.mggagne@salmar.com>
Message-ID: <200309262103.51051.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 26 September 2003 17:36, Marcel (Free Thinker at Large) Gagne wrote:

> screenshots.  The real concern is whether you are using those screenshots
> to damage a company's reputation or displaying private or confidential
> information.  Pretty much anything else is fair game.  A screenshot of an

Nope.

> Given that you are primarily concerned about Microsoft's reaction, you
> might want to check out what they have to say about it on this page.  The
> information are looking for is about 3/4 of the way down the page.
>
>      http://www.microsoft.com/permission/copyrgt/cop-img.htm
>
> Hope that helps.  Good luck with the website and take care out there.

Thanks Marcel, exactly what I was looking for.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 01:42:16 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:42:16 -0400
Subject: MS Shenanigans
In-Reply-To: <20030926083722.198917a3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926083722.198917a3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F74EAF8.3090100@rogers.com>

> and actually got one of the authors fired from AtStake, a company formed
> by the once oh-so-self-righteous L0pht group:

I heard the guy who got canned was actually their CTO. Oh well, l0pht 
became a bunch of sell out corporate whores with @stake. Mudge et al: 
hope the money was worth it you tools.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 02:38:24 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:38:24 -0400
Subject: PDF/gs or LaTeX problem
In-Reply-To: <E1A2zng-0000g4-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>; from tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 05:06:52PM -0400
References: <E1A2zng-0000g4-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <20030926223824.A10321@ee.ryerson.ca>


When the latex file is processed to .dvi, can you view the output using xdvi?
Peter


On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 05:06:52PM -0400, Mailing List wrote:
> Hi,
> 
>   I have only recently got this problem.  I think
> latex is fine, since I get what looks like valid
> postscript.  I only get this problem when I run 
> ps2pdf...
> 
> Error: /undefined in 0.8,
> Operand stack:
> 
> Execution stack:
>    %interp_exit   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   false   1   %stopped_push   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   --nostringval--
> Dictionary stack:
>    --dict:1063/1123(ro)(G)--   --dict:0/20(G)--   --dict:86/200(L)--   --dict:208/300(L)--
> Current allocation mode is local
> Last OS error: 2
> Current file position is 197049
> GNU Ghostscript 7.07: Unrecoverable error, exit code 1
> 
> 
> Any ideas?
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 02:49:20 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ADSL Connection (solution)
In-Reply-To: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309262248380.13027@ns.istop.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Gilles Fourchet wrote:

> PS: By the way, I just switched to EOL.  Technically speaking, they are not that good but they care about their customers, which as important (not to say more).

You mean Primus (who bought EOL from Vince earlier this year).

-Ralph

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 02:32:54 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:32:54 -0400
Subject: MS Shenanigans
In-Reply-To: <20030926083722.198917a3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926083722.198917a3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200309262232.54620.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 26 September 2003 08:37, JoeHill wrote:

> Report:
>
> http://www.ccianet.org/papers/cyberinsecurity.pdf

A very interesting read indeed.  Let's hope that at least a few of the 
congressmen supposedly being presented with this material weren't being payed 
off by Microsoft.
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 03:07:57 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:07:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ADSL Connection (solution)
In-Reply-To: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>
Message-ID: <25362.216.138.194.32.1064632077.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<snip>
> After having opening 2 tickets to Bell (one from my provider to Bell
> Nexxia to check their network) and one from me to Bell Residential (to
> come in to check my inside phone installation), the answer was:
> everything is fine and you are the problem (it is not was they said but
> it was what it meant).  Of course, my provider did not do what to do but
> opened another ticket to Bell Nexxia.  And guess what: I received a
> phone call 2 days ago to ask me to check whether my connection was
> working.  Of course, it was working and when I asked the question, the
> answer was: "Oh, it was a programming not completed on our side."

This was after how long pulling your hair out at the roots? Too bad you
couldn't get them to pay you for the bs.

> I do not know how Bell is working but it would be very interesting to
> have them explaining how they can test a network with a faulty
> configuration and find it okay.

Bell the phone company checked to see if your line had dial tone. It did.
Bell Nexxia the upstream provider was not aware of anything Bell the phone
company was doing, and vice-versa.



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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 03:36:39 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:36:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ADSL Connection (solution)
In-Reply-To: <25362.216.138.194.32.1064632077.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>
 <25362.216.138.194.32.1064632077.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309262333530.19187@ns.istop.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> Bell the phone company checked to see if your line had dial tone. It did.
> Bell Nexxia the upstream provider was not aware of anything Bell the phone
> company was doing, and vice-versa.

BellNexxia is no longer a separate company.  They were rolled into Bell's
Carrier Services Group (CSG) as of April 1, 2003 (a good April fool's
joke).  Various groups within Bell are involved when dealing with ADSL
service.  The wholesale helpdesk, the AOC, the iNOC, the DSSC, and one
more I forget right now.

-Ralph
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 01:37:26 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:37:26 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926194013.326d40fd.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 19:40:13 -0400
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca> <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca> <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030926194013.326d40fd.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927013726.GA2887@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/26/2003 07:40:13 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> Is Balsa GTK+2? It would be cool if it was, that's another thing that I
> don't like about Sylpheed.

Yes it is.

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 01:38:47 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:38:47 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926194248.1ff28011.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 19:42:48 -0400
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca> <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca> <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030926194248.1ff28011.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927013847.GC2887@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/26/2003 07:42:48 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> "Why does Balsa defaults to the HTML-Part?

I don't think this is the case anymore.
Try a recent GTK2 version.
Austin

--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 06:51:52 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:51:52 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926194000.GA2336-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
 <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
 <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309270951210.3877@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Austin wrote:

> Why would anyone use sylpheed over balsa anyway?  ;-)

Why would anyone use balsa over Outlook Express anyway? ;-)

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 07:22:41 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:22:41 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: MS Shenanigans
In-Reply-To: <3F74EAF8.3090100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926083722.198917a3.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F74EAF8.3090100@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309271015590.3877@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 26 Sep 2003, Byron Sonne wrote:

> > and actually got one of the authors fired from AtStake, a company formed
> > by the once oh-so-self-righteous L0pht group:
>
> I heard the guy who got canned was actually their CTO. Oh well, l0pht
> became a bunch of sell out corporate whores with @stake. Mudge et al:
> hope the money was worth it you tools.

All one can say about such a canned report is, the money they spent to
quench it demonstrates its value and the truth in it beyond any further
explanation, and increases the value of the report by at least the amount
of influence (or belief in its power) and money paid to get it canned. It
simply means that the report is up to date and flawless, and that they
cannot find anything to refute or attack it yet (but they are looking
hard). Very nice.

thank you for the links,

Peter

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 11:02:43 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:02:43 -0400
Subject: MS Shenanigans
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309271015590.3877-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926083722.198917a3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F74EAF8.3090100@rogers.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0309271015590.3877@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20030927070243.33ba08a1.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 10:22:41 +0300 (IDDT)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> All one can say about such a canned report is, the money they spent to
> quench it demonstrates its value and the truth in it beyond any
> further explanation, and increases the value of the report by at least
> the amount of influence (or belief in its power) and money paid to get
> it canned. It simply means that the report is up to date and flawless,
> and that they cannot find anything to refute or attack it yet (but
> they are looking hard). Very nice.

Exactement! Microsoft playing whack-a-mole, how amusing... :-D
 
> thank you for the links,

you are very welcome, sir.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.
		-- Oscar Wilde, "The Portrait of Mr. W.H."
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 11:06:55 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:06:55 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030927013847.GC2887-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030926194248.1ff28011.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927013847.GC2887@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927070655.13c5cf9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 21:38:47 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I don't think this is the case anymore.
> Try a recent GTK2 version.

I will, it looks pretty "robust" as they say on their site. I looked at
their mailing list archives under a search for "html mail" and it looks
like this was quite a contentious issue with the users and devel team.

Thanks!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Illusion is the first of all pleasures.
		-- Voltaire
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 11:39:00 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:39:00 -0400
Subject: Balsa
Message-ID: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>

Ok Austin, you started it... ;-)

Trying to build the Gnome2 version of Balsa, it is not finding my
libdirs, which I am used to in Mandrake, but I tried:

export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/

but still:

configure: error: Library requirements (
glib-2.0
libgnome-2.0
libgnomeui-2.0
gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0
gnome-vfs-2.0
gnome-vfs-module-2.0
 libgtkhtml-2.0

even though:

[joehill at node1:/usr/local/lib]>$rpm -qa | grep gtk+
libgtk+2.0_0-devel-2.2.1-2mdk
libgtk+2.0_0-2.2.1-2mdk
libgtk+1.2-devel-1.2.10-32mdk
libgtk+1.2-1.2.10-32mdk
gtk+mdk-0.1.6-14mdk
libgtk+-x11-2.0_0-devel-2.2.1-2mdk
gtk+2.0-2.2.1-2mdk
libgtk+-x11-2.0_0-2.2.1-2mdk

I realize I'm probably still going to need some more devel libs, like
the gnome-vfs stuff, but I know I have the necessary gtk+ devel libs so
I'd like to get ./configure to at least see those first.

if you've got 2 minutes, any help appreciated, thanks!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
God instructs the heart, not by ideas, but by pains and contradictions.
		-- De Caussade
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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 12:26:13 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:26:13 -0400
Subject: ADSL Connection (solution)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309262248380.13027-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0309262248380.13027@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20030927082613.1aa2a324.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 22:49:20 -0400 (EDT)
Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> You mean Primus (who bought EOL from Vince earlier this year).
> 

I did not know that EOL had been bought.  And it is not mentionned anywhere in their advirtising, web site, and administrative papers.

Thanks for the info.

Gilles
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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 12:30:00 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:30:00 -0400
Subject: ADSL Connection (solution)
In-Reply-To: <25362.216.138.194.32.1064632077.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>
	<25362.216.138.194.32.1064632077.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20030927083000.3993f36f.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 23:07:57 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Bell the phone company checked to see if your line had dial tone. It did.
> Bell Nexxia the upstream provider was not aware of anything Bell the phone
> company was doing, and vice-versa.
> 
The guy from Bell Residential came especially to test my ADSL line.  He did test the ADSL connection from the jack, on which I have my modem, but from the LAN cable plugged in the modem as well.  He even called somebody to ask them to check something and/or to send a checking signal.  That means that there tests is useless since it cannot detect that, if the signal is there (actually I did not need them to know that), the connection is not.

Gilles
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From adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 13:55:17 2003
From: adam-+Gnyv3l5ckaNFgfkp0FINA at public.gmane.org (Adam Tworkowski)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 09:55:17 -0400
Subject: ADSL Connection (solution)
In-Reply-To: <20030927083000.3993f36f.gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030926211516.39e96c0d.gilles.fourchet@canada.com> <25362.216.138.194.32.1064632077.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20030927083000.3993f36f.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>
Message-ID: <200309270955.32762.adam@tworkowski.com>

A quick word of caution with dealing with Bell and ADSL testing:

Be very cautious about letting Bell technicians into your premises for 
testing.  An $80 charge magically appeared on my phone bill when a Bell 
technician came to test my ADSL connection.  There was a problem but the line 
but due to the techs documentation it was a hard fight with several managers 
to get the charge removed.  It was eventually removed as the managered 
"agreed to disagree" and heavily marked up the trouble ticket and warned me 
that this contest would greatly affect my ability to contest billing issues 
in the future.

Some of this was my fault.  Read on if you want some details:

-Adam had Nortel 1 meg Sympatico service for 5 years (note -- not the same as 
ADSL.  Just because Nortel I meg modem works on your line does not guarantee 
that ADSL will)
-Adam gets royally frustrated with blocking of port 25 layered on top of 
previous frustrations such has taking four days for Sympatico tech to 
"escalate" trouble ticket to Bell tech at CO who needed to reset a card.
-Adam obtains used ADSL modem privately and cancels Sympatico and signs up 
with ADSL provider.
-Service switches over but no modem sync.
-ADSL provider is called and they arrange for Bell to examine issue
-technician shows up with fancy handheld modem / line tester.  says he can 
reach the CO.   He says line is fine and asks Adam to test ADSL session
-Adam tries to make ADSL session (of course it still won't work)
-Adam foolishly mentions that he bought modem privately and doesn't know for a 
fact that it works, it is only "know to be working".
-Technician goes to vehicle to get Alcatel modem still in shrink wrap
-Modem does not sync.  Technician calls into CO and asks them to switch the 
line to "maintenance mode".  Modem syncs.  
-Bell technican makes notes including that customer was uncertain of modems 
functionality and swiftly leaves.
-Adam goes upstairs and fires up pppoe and connection has been fine ever 
since.
-Adam receives bill for visit reminding himself that  he has paid $10/month x 
12 months x 5 years for a freaking modem rental and how things would have 
played out very differently if you was still a Sympatico customer.

If I was smarter it would have went something like this:

-Adam says "no you can't come in -- do you testing from outside"
-Adam says "that's nice, the line is good and you can sync with your fancy 
hand held modem but show me a sync with a modem that you would have left for 
me *if* I was a Sympatico customer"
-Adam says "no, you can't come in...I'll get you an extensions cord..."
-Adam asks "what exactly did you have the technician at the CO do?  What is 
"Maintainence Mode"? Oh, you mean there is no full ADSL in my area yet.  But 
Sympatico has been advertising that Sympatico HSE *is* available in my area.  
Oh, so it *is* ADSL service but somewhat degraded.  Oh, you mean I will never 
get close to 1.2M until there is fiber is in my area? Cough"
-Adam says "that's nice, it looks like the modem is syncing but prove to me 
that the connection is usable"
-Adam says "no you can't come in...go get your laptop"
-Adam says "what do you mean you don't carry a laptop...how can you 
unequivocally tell me that the connection is good when you haven't seen it 
for yourself"
Adam says "hey, why don't I give you a break and use my equipment to finish 
your testing so you don't have drive off to find a laptop.  You wait 
outside...yup it seems to be  working now"
-Adam says "good day" taking full notes explicitly noting that Bell technician 
was not provisioned with sufficient equipment for testing.




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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 11:13:42 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:13:42 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 07:39:00 -0400
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927111342.GC2326@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

What distro are you using?
Maybe I can send you an RPM?
Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 15:20:02 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:20:02 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927111342.GC2326-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927111342.GC2326@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927112002.49ed472c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:13:42 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> What distro are you using?
> Maybe I can send you an RPM?

Mandrake, actually urpmi found version 2.0.9 for me,  a little behind
but it'll give me a chance to try it out at least til I decide.

That's the trouble with Linux, too much choice! ;-)

Thanks!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He who knows others is wise.
He who knows himself is enlightened.
		-- Lao Tsu
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 11:39:59 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:39:59 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927112002.49ed472c.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 11:20:02 -0400
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030927111342.GC2326@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030927112002.49ed472c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927113959.GA2291@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/27/2003 11:20:02 AM, JoeHill wrote:
> Mandrake, actually urpmi found version 2.0.9 for me,  a little behind
> but it'll give me a chance to try it out at least til I decide.

Neat.  I am the maintainer for balsa in Mandrake.  Coincidence?  :-)

What release?  9.1?  I can rebuild the balsa 2.0.14 RPM for you.  2.0.9 has  
some weird word-wrap behavior.

Austin

--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 15:50:25 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:50:25 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927113959.GA2291-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927111342.GC2326@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927112002.49ed472c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927113959.GA2291@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927115025.39b0959f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 07:39:59 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Neat.  I am the maintainer for balsa in Mandrake.  Coincidence?  :-)

Heh, and here I thought I was gonna get a "you should use Debian, you
wouldn't have these problems...blah, blah, blah..." :-D

> What release?  9.1?  I can rebuild the balsa 2.0.14 RPM for you. 
> 2.0.9 has  some weird word-wrap behavior.

Yep, 9.1 (for now, Mandrake as usual is about to tempt me into another
upgrade less than a year after I upped from 9.1...those bastages!).

That would be waaaaay cool! I usually don't have so much trouble
building from source, though, it's weird that it won't find my GTK libs,
no? I build ROX, Sylpheed, XFCE4, and some other Gnome/GTK dependent
stuff all the time, no probs.

What *would* be the correct "export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=" to use for
Mandrake anyway? Just so I don't have to bug you every time I want to
upgrade or if I want to compile CVS (loooooooove CVS'ing!).

Thanks again!
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Coincidences are spiritual puns.
		-- G.K. Chesterton
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 16:23:00 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:23:00 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926194000.GA2336-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:40:00 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On 09/26/2003 07:22:57 PM, rh wrote:
> > Perhaps it is sylpheed ( I think that is what the original post said he was
> > using) that is the problem. I, too, sent attachments to someone with a Mac
> > who also could not open the attachments. Later found out that it didn't
> > matter who or what I was sending them to, no one could open them.
> 
> Why would anyone use sylpheed over balsa anyway?  ;-)

rh,

   I recently switched to Sylpheed from Netscape.  I tried out Balsa, but I could not get it to send email.  I have been absolutely pleased with Sylpheed so far.  Everything seems to work well.  The address book is particularly good.  My only criticism so far is that I cannot copy and paste between the address book and the email.

   I particularly like Sylpheed's Send Later feature, something Netscape did too.  I am still on a 56K modem.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 12:58:36 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:58:36 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927115025.39b0959f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 11:50:25 -0400
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030927111342.GC2326@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030927112002.49ed472c.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030927113959.GA2291@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20030927115025.39b0959f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927125836.GC3205@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>


On 09/27/2003 11:50:25 AM, JoeHill wrote:
> Heh, and here I thought I was gonna get a "you should use Debian, you
> wouldn't have these problems...blah, blah, blah..." :-D

apt-get and urpmi are almost identical in function
 
> Yep, 9.1 (for now, Mandrake as usual is about to tempt me into another
> upgrade less than a year after I upped from 9.1...those bastages!).

They release every six months.  Period.  Mind you, this release will be  
delayed a bit becuause (for the first time) the ISO's will no be published  
until the boxed sets are for sale, and the club members have had a chance to  
download early.  This was a bit of a sensitive issue for us, but I think we  
decided it was for the best interests of survival for the company.
 
> What *would* be the correct "export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=" to use for
> Mandrake anyway? Just so I don't have to bug you every time I want to
> upgrade or if I want to compile CVS (loooooooove CVS'ing!).

You shouln't need to export anything.  pkgconfig come well setup.  I just  
compiled balsa cvs yesterday with:
autoconf
./configure --prefix=/usr
make

No errors at all.
Now you may have problems if you've built the libraries from source and not  
installed the .pc files to /usr/lib/pkgconfig... which is our default  
PKG_CONFIG_PATH.

I have rebuild the latest balsa for Mandarake 9.1, and it's available at:
http://groundstate.ca/balsa-2.0.14-3mdk.i586.rpm

Austin

--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 16:41:41 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:41:41 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:23:00 -0400
Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> 
>    I recently switched to Sylpheed from Netscape.  I tried out Balsa,
>    but I could not get it to send email.

How were you sending, through your ISP's server, or postfix-to-ISP?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake.
		-- Jeannette Rankin
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 17:06:10 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 13:06:10 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927125836.GC3205-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927111342.GC2326@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927112002.49ed472c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927113959.GA2291@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927115025.39b0959f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927125836.GC3205@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927130610.751fd316.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 08:58:36 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> They release every six months.  Period.  Mind you, this release will
> be  delayed a bit becuause (for the first time) the ISO's will no be
> published  until the boxed sets are for sale, and the club members
> have had a chance to  download early.  This was a bit of a sensitive
> issue for us, but I think we  decided it was for the best interests of
> survival for the company.

Ya, I saw that on the Mandrake lists. I agree with that decision 100%,
it does not go against the Free Software philosophy, it's just giving an
advantage to those that contribute in a substantial way, whether
monetarily or development-wise. I'm in no huge rush anyway, and I hope
to have two dimes to rub together in the near future to get a Club
membership, not for the extra benefits, just for the fact they've given
me a free OS the last 2 years, and a great one at that!

> > What *would* be the correct "export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=" to use for
> > Mandrake anyway? Just so I don't have to bug you every time I want
> > to upgrade or if I want to compile CVS (loooooooove CVS'ing!).
> 
> You shouln't need to export anything.  pkgconfig come well setup.  I
> just  compiled balsa cvs yesterday with:
> autoconf
> ./configure --prefix=/usr
> make

ah, see I didn't do autoconf, just ./configure. Perhaps that was the
problem, I'll give it another shot just to see...

> No errors at all.
> Now you may have problems if you've built the libraries from source
> and not  installed the .pc files to /usr/lib/pkgconfig... which is our
> default  PKG_CONFIG_PATH.

Install GTK+ libs from source?! Ay Caramba, I'm still a newb, I wouldn't
dare! ;-) it's urpmi for me all the way when it comes to stuff like
that.

> I have rebuild the latest balsa for Mandarake 9.1, and it's available
> at: http://groundstate.ca/balsa-2.0.14-3mdk.i586.rpm

Cool! Thanks very much, I'm gonna try it out today a bit, really test it
out Monday when I have more time to myself. The great thing is I can log
in as a different test user account on tty2 or whatever and try out all
kinds of wondrous software, window managers, what have you. I just can't
get over how much I love this OS.

Thanks again and all the best!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By protracting life, we do not deduct one jot from the duration of
death.
		-- Titus Lucretius Carus
--
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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 18:12:38 2003
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:12:38 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Sat, 2003-09-27 at 07:39, JoeHill wrote:
> Ok Austin, you started it... ;-)
> 
> Trying to build the Gnome2 version of Balsa, it is not finding my
> libdirs, which I am used to in Mandrake, but I tried:
> 
> export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/
> 

Try export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/lib/pkgconfig

That should make the difference

> but still:
> 
> configure: error: Library requirements (
> glib-2.0
> libgnome-2.0
> libgnomeui-2.0
> gtk+-2.0 >= 2.0
> gnome-vfs-2.0
> gnome-vfs-module-2.0
>  libgtkhtml-2.0
> 
> even though:
> 
> [joehill at node1:/usr/local/lib]>$rpm -qa | grep gtk+
> libgtk+2.0_0-devel-2.2.1-2mdk
> libgtk+2.0_0-2.2.1-2mdk
> libgtk+1.2-devel-1.2.10-32mdk
> libgtk+1.2-1.2.10-32mdk
> gtk+mdk-0.1.6-14mdk
> libgtk+-x11-2.0_0-devel-2.2.1-2mdk
> gtk+2.0-2.2.1-2mdk
> libgtk+-x11-2.0_0-2.2.1-2mdk
> 
> I realize I'm probably still going to need some more devel libs, like
> the gnome-vfs stuff, but I know I have the necessary gtk+ devel libs so
> I'd like to get ./configure to at least see those first.
> 
> if you've got 2 minutes, any help appreciated, thanks!
-- 
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 19:16:20 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:16:20 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <1064686357.1543.1.camel-eTg7c9BlEq95hrpxxnI5yFifK/mc/01a@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld>
Message-ID: <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:12:38 -0400
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Try export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/lib/pkgconfig
> 
> That should make the difference

I've tried autoconf first, as well as your suggestion. I now have all
the devel libs installed that are necessary, and I do have a
/usr/lib/pkgconfig...but still the same error.

I know I can just install the RPM, but now it's personal... ;-)

does it matter the order in which I do the "export" and "autoconf"?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Depend on the rabbit's foot if you will, but remember, it didn't help
the rabbit.
		-- R.E. Shay
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 19:25:59 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:25:59 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	<20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:16:20 -0400
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I've tried autoconf first, as well as your suggestion. I now have all
> the devel libs installed that are necessary, and I do have a
> /usr/lib/pkgconfig...but still the same error.
> 
> I know I can just install the RPM, but now it's personal... ;-)
> 
> does it matter the order in which I do the "export" and "autoconf"?

Holy sweet Mary Mother of Jesus, I got it to configure!

Wow, that's a *lot* of devel libs to install. I basically just kept
hammering at it, installing devel libs as the errors came up...

I'm scared to type "make" now... :-D

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Either I'm dead or my watch has stopped.
		-- Groucho Marx's last words
--
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 15:39:05 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:39:05 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 15:16:20 -0400
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld> <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927153905.GC2485@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/27/2003 03:16:20 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> I've tried autoconf first, as well as your suggestion. I now have all
> the devel libs installed that are necessary, and I do have a
> /usr/lib/pkgconfig...but still the same error.

You only need to run autoconf if you're using the cvs version.  The tarball  
does not need autoconf.
 
> I know I can just install the RPM, but now it's personal... ;-)

Please repost the error, and ls /usr/lib/pkgconfig.
Be sure to try ./configure --prefix=/usr as well.
 
> does it matter the order in which I do the "export" and "autoconf"?

No.

Austin
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 15:40:19 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:19 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 15:25:59 -0400
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld> <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927154019.GE2485@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>


On 09/27/2003 03:25:59 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> Holy sweet Mary Mother of Jesus, I got it to configure!

The joy of linux is now in you, my son.

Austin
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 19:34:55 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:34:55 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	<20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927153455.538bf492.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 15:25:59 -0400
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I'm scared to type "make" now... :-D

aaaarrrrgggghhhhhhhhhh, I knew it...


In file included from ../mutt.h:708,
                 from auth.c:23:
../mutt_regex.h:29:25: pcreposix.h: No such file or directory
In file included from ../mutt.h:708,
                 from auth.c:23:
../mutt_regex.h:52: parse error before "regex_t"
../mutt_regex.h:52: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
../mutt_regex.h:54: parse error before '}' token
../mutt_regex.h:54: warning: data definition has no type or storage
class../mutt_regex.h:56: parse error before "Alternates"
../mutt_regex.h:56: warning: data definition has no type or storage
class../mutt_regex.h:58: parse error before "FileMask"
../mutt_regex.h:58: warning: data definition has no type or storage
class../mutt_regex.h:59: parse error before "QuoteRegexp"
../mutt_regex.h:59: warning: data definition has no type or storage
class../mutt_regex.h:60: parse error before "ReplyRegexp"
../mutt_regex.h:60: warning: data definition has no type or storage
class../mutt_regex.h:61: parse error before "Smileys"
../mutt_regex.h:61: warning: data definition has no type or storage
class../mutt_regex.h:62: parse error before "GecosMask"
../mutt_regex.h:62: warning: data definition has no type or storage
class In file included from auth.c:23:
../mutt.h:726: parse error before "regex_t"
../mutt.h:726: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
../mutt.h:727: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
../mutt.h:742: parse error before "pattern_t"
../mutt.h:742: warning: no semicolon at end of struct or union
../mutt.h:764: parse error before ':' token
../mutt.h:765: parse error before ':' token
../mutt.h:766: parse error before ':' token
../mutt.h:767: parse error before ':' token
../mutt.h:768: parse error before ':' token
../mutt.h:769: parse error before ':' token
../mutt.h:770: parse error before ':' token
../mutt.h:771: parse error before ':' token
In file included from ../mutt.h:878,
                 from auth.c:23:
../protos.h:381: parse error before '*' token
../protos.h:381: warning: data definition has no type or storage class
../protos.h:383: parse error before '*' token
make[4]: *** [auth.o] Error 1
make[4]: Leaving directory
`/home/joehill/downloads/balsa-2.0.14/libmutt/imap' make[3]: ***
[all-recursive] Error 1 make[3]: Leaving directory
`/home/joehill/downloads/balsa-2.0.14/libmutt' make[2]: ***
[all-recursive-am] Error 2 make[2]: Leaving directory
`/home/joehill/downloads/balsa-2.0.14/libmutt' make[1]: ***
[all-recursive] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory
`/home/joehill/downloads/balsa-2.0.14' make: *** [all-recursive-am]
Error 2

what, is there a "mutt-devel" library, LOL!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is Fortune, not Wisdom, that rules man's life.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 20:05:45 2003
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 16:05:45 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	 <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1064693144.1543.5.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Sat, 2003-09-27 at 15:16, JoeHill wrote:
> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 14:12:38 -0400
> Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > 
> > Try export PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/lib/pkgconfig
> > 
> > That should make the difference
> 
> I've tried autoconf first, as well as your suggestion. I now have all
> the devel libs installed that are necessary, and I do have a
> /usr/lib/pkgconfig...but still the same error.
> 
> I know I can just install the RPM, but now it's personal... ;-)
> 
> does it matter the order in which I do the "export" and "autoconf"?

It might, probably do the export first.  At any rate, where did you
install the devel packages?  You might need to do:

export
PKG_CONFIG_PATH=/usr/lib/pkgconfig:/usr/local/lib/pkgconfig:/prefix/where/you/installed/libs/lib/pkgconfig

instead.  If this is the case, sorry, I didn't realize that you were
compiling the libs as well :)

-- 
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

--
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 16:15:41 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:15:41 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927153455.538bf492.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sat, Sep 27, 2003 at 15:34:55 -0400
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld> <20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20030927153455.538bf492.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927161541.GA2853@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/27/2003 03:34:55 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> ../mutt_regex.h:29:25: pcreposix.h: No such file or directory

urpmi libpcre-devel

you know, you could find a list of dependencies from the SRPM... :-)

[snip]
Name:		balsa
Version:	2.0.14
Release:	3mdk
License:	GPL
Group:		Networking/Mail

BuildRequires:	freetype2-devel
BuildRequires:	gettext
BuildRequires:	libesmtp-devel
BuildRequires:	libltdl3-devel
BuildRequires:	libpcre-devel
BuildRequires:	openssl-devel
BuildRequires:	smtpdaemon
BuildRequires:  libgnomeprintui-devel >= 2.1.7
BuildRequires:  libgnomeui2_0-devel
BuildRequires:  eel-devel >= 2.0.0
BuildRequires:  libaspell15-devel
BuildRequires:  libgtkhtml2_0-devel
BuildRequires:  intltool
BuildRequires:	libldap2-devel
BuildRequires:	libsasl-devel
BuildRequires:	scrollkeeper
[snip]

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Sep 27 21:15:53 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:15:53 -0400
Subject: Screenshots, legal/illegal?
In-Reply-To: <200309261657.59140.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309261657.59140.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F75FE09.6000808@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm considering setting up a website that will (hopefully) have a lot of 
> screenshots from popular programs such as Microsoft Outlook, Mozilla, kmail, 
> etc.
> 
> I've done similar things for clients on a small scale but I'm wondering before 
> bothering with this idea if there might be anything illegal about putting up 
> screenshots of commercial programs (my only real worry would be with 
> Microsoft Outlook).
> 

I'm no expert, but I think such a thing would be considered "fair use", 
with proper attribution etc.


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 01:05:54 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:05:54 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927161541.GA2853-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	<20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927153455.538bf492.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927161541.GA2853@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030927210554.77210ca6.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:15:41 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> you know, you could find a list of dependencies from the SRPM... :-)

Johnny Carson: "I did not know that..." :-D

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Faith is under the left nipple.
		-- Martin Luther
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 11:27:52 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 07:27:52 -0400
Subject: Balsa
In-Reply-To: <20030927154019.GE2485-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030927073900.17899d33.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1064686357.1543.1.camel@rincewind.discworld>
	<20030927151620.563c6c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927152559.251f4f81.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030927154019.GE2485@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030928072752.413e7442.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 11:40:19 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > Holy sweet Mary Mother of Jesus, I got it to configure!
> 
> The joy of linux is now in you, my son.

With all due respect to Rober Duvall...

I love the sight of source code compiling in the morning...

http://www.orderinchaos.org/balsabuild.png


-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances.
		-- Herodotus
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 14:24:30 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:24:30 -0400
Subject: /dev/mixer
In-Reply-To: <20030926190917.1698073f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309261848250.24467@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <20030926190917.1698073f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F76EF1E.4090102@truxtar.com>

Hi Guys,

Let me try to clarify some of this stuff for you.

JoeHill wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 18:52:10 -0400 (EDT)
> gbell72 <gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> 
>>I'm presently working in windowmaker with no decent graphical mixer
>>program. I've attempted to use /dev/mixer but I continuously get a
>>permission denied, even after I have su - to root.  Root is a member
>>of the sys group is there a reason why root is being denied access to
>>this program?  When I do an ls -l  I get crw-rw----    1 root     sys 
>>     14,   0 Jul 18  1994 /dev/mixer
>>Does anyone know how I can fix this?

/dev/mixer is not a program, it's a Character Device (basicly a 
representation of a physical input/output device on your filesysterm), 
thus the 'c' in the ls output.  You have to use another program such as 
wmsmixer as JoeHiss suggested.  You need to make sure that your login 
name belongs to a group that has read/write (rw-) permissions on the 
/dev/mixer device ('sys' in this case).

If your soundcard is working properly, then there should be no reason 
for the mixer not to work.  Check some Slackware-specific sources though 
- it's been two years since I've (tried) using Slackware.

> 
> 
> I get this:
> 
> lr-xr-xr-x    1 root     root           11 Sep 26 10:45 /dev/mixer ->
> 

The 'l' at the start means the file is a symbolic link to the real mixer 
device.  The name of the target file should follow the '->'.  I think 
it's the permissions on the target file that matter not the symbolic 
link, although I am not a big expert on symbolic links.

> which look like even more restrictive perms (what the heck is the "c"?)
> and I'm able to use wmsmixer to control the sound. It's a pretty cool
> dockapp available from here:
> 
> http://www.bensinclair.com/dockapp/showcat.php3?type=Audio
> 
> In the end you could just chmod and chgrp, if necessary, no?
> 

Hope I helped.

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 14:32:23 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:32:23 -0400
Subject: Debian modules question
Message-ID: <20030928143223.GA12718@m450>

  I'm about to seriously try Debian on my second PC.  I got to the
installation phase where a whole slew of modules is available for
compiling into the kernel.  Is it really necessary, or can most modules
be loaded at boot time?  I'm referring to stuff like network card,
netfilter/iptables, sound, etc.  Iptables has a huge submenu, with stuff
that should obviously be included (e.g. LOG, REJECT, etc.).  As long as
there's no significant negative, I'd prefer module-loading versus
building stuff into the kernel.  This implies a somewhat longer
/etc/modules.conf file, plus I'd need some help figuring out the
modules.conf file first time.

  If this works, what is the minimal additional stuff I need to build
into the kernel?  I'm starting the install from CD 5 to get ReiserFS.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 14:59:01 2003
From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:59:01 -0400
Subject: Debian modules question
In-Reply-To: <20030928143223.GA12718-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030928143223.GA12718@m450>
Message-ID: <20030928145901.GA1072@sophocles>

On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 10:32:23AM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
>   I'm about to seriously try Debian on my second PC.  I got to the
> installation phase where a whole slew of modules is available for
> compiling into the kernel.  Is it really necessary, or can most modules
> be loaded at boot time?  I'm referring to stuff like network card,
> netfilter/iptables, sound, etc.  Iptables has a huge submenu, with stuff
> that should obviously be included (e.g. LOG, REJECT, etc.).  As long as
> there's no significant negative, I'd prefer module-loading versus
> building stuff into the kernel.  This implies a somewhat longer
> /etc/modules.conf file, plus I'd need some help figuring out the
> modules.conf file first time.

The Debian installation does not include compiling a kernel.  The
modules that you select will be automatically loaded when the system
boots.

-- 
Seneca
seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 17:43:23 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:43:23 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
Message-ID: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca>

Does anyone know much about the UWO residence setup? I configured my 
daughter's PC to use Mandrake 9.1 in her residence at UWO. They are on a 
residence network called reznet. All seems to be working fine.

Here comes the "except". Within reznet, they seem to have some kind of 
p2p for sharing files and I think it's only for the reznet people. Since 
it's somewhat restricted, it is very fast. There is a web site for 
downloading the required software for file sharing, but of course, it's 
a .exe file, and she couldn't make it work. So I get complaints that 
Linux can't download files.

Does anyone know if a linux p2p program (I use gtk-gnutella at home) 
could be used for this? What configuration questions should I be asking 
the reznet admin people so that I could duplicate in the linux program?

Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John.

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 17:59:31 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 13:59:31 -0400
Subject: Debian modules question
In-Reply-To: <20030928145901.GA1072-0zIVzF1tr6n1P9xLtpHBDw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030928143223.GA12718@m450> <20030928145901.GA1072@sophocles>
Message-ID: <20030928175931.GA13010@m450>

On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 10:59:01AM -0400, Seneca wrote

> The Debian installation does not include compiling a kernel.  The
> modules that you select will be automatically loaded when the system
> boots.

  I mis-interpreted the documentation and asked the wrong question.  Let
me re-phrase the question.  Can I modprobe those same modules in via a
script or via /etc/modules.conf if they aren't automatically loaded.  If
I do need them at bootup, can I manually change the list of
automatically load modules after the fact?

  Another way of looking at it... if I install Debian to load a lot more
than it needs, can I tweak that later, via /etc/modules.conf or some
other config file (if so, which other config file?).

  I'm probably worse than a newbie, because I have to un-learn a bunch
of Redhat-isms.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 14:05:18 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:05:18 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
In-Reply-To: <3F771DBB.6060703-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 13:43:23 -0400
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030928140518.GA2354@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 09/28/2003 01:43:23 PM, Moniz wrote:
> Here comes the "except". Within reznet, they seem to have some kind of p2p  
> for sharing files and I think it's only for the reznet people. Since it's  
> somewhat restricted, it is very fast. There is a web site for downloading  
> the required software for file sharing, but of course, it's a .exe file, and  
> she couldn't make it work. So I get complaints that Linux can't download  
> files.

I'm on the graduate residence's network here at york.  All works perfectly.   
Are you sure they're sharing files by p2p and not just regular file sharing?   
Here we used to have appletalk and ipx, but now they have limited it only to  
windows networking.  This of course works fine through samba in mandrake (for  
me at least).  I use linneighborhood or whatever it's called.

If you can find out what p2p they are using, I can likely find a linux  
equivalent.

Also, have you tried running the .exe with win4lin (amazing program) or wine  
(not so amazing)?

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 18:28:37 2003
From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:28:37 -0400
Subject: latin 1, xfig?
Message-ID: <3F772855.F3A65E9C@qef.com>

xfig has support for the Latin-1 characters in that one
can use the Atl key followed by a two letter encoding to
yield characters in the non-ascii range.  For example
Alt-SO yields ? (the section sign).

Q: Does anyone know of other programs that use the same
   encoding?  Is it some sort of standard?

Q: Does anyone know the xfig encoding for the acute accent
   ? decimal 180, octal 264?  I've been able to map 0241
   through 0376, but 0264 eludes me.

-- david
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 18:31:40 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 14:31:40 -0400
Subject: Debian modules question
In-Reply-To: <20030928175931.GA13010-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030928143223.GA12718@m450> <20030928145901.GA1072@sophocles> <20030928175931.GA13010@m450>
Message-ID: <200309281431.41180.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 28 September 2003 13:59, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   I mis-interpreted the documentation and asked the wrong question.  Let
> me re-phrase the question.  Can I modprobe those same modules in via a
> script or via /etc/modules.conf if they aren't automatically loaded.  If
> I do need them at bootup, can I manually change the list of
> automatically load modules after the fact?

Yes.  You can simply rerun the tool that you're seeing during install 
(modconf) or you can list the modules in the file /etc/modules ... here's the 
extensive documentation from the modules man page:

       The /etc/modules file contains the names of kernel modules
       that are to be loaded at boot time, one  per  line.  Argu?
       ments  can  be  given in the same line as the module name.
       Comments begin with a `#',  and  everything  on  the  line
       after them are ignored.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 20:05:57 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:05:57 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030926194000.GA2336-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20030928160557.28a1a1ce.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On Fri, 26 Sep 2003 15:40:00 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Why would anyone use sylpheed over balsa anyway?  ;-)

Why use balsa over Sylpheed?

~ C

-- 
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100E A98E E143 C326 547C  A207 A704 F673 8B4E A754
                     ****
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 20:33:55 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:33:55 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030928160557.28a1a1ce.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030928160557.28a1a1ce.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20030928163355.02332830.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:05:57 -0400
Chris Keelan <rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Why use balsa over Sylpheed?

Because compiling it is sooooo much more fun? ;-)

I'm gonna be checking it out over the next couple of days. I'm a pretty
dedicated Sylpheed user, so I'll write in with my unbiased, objective
review sometime... :-D

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't kid yourself.  Little is relevant, and nothing lasts forever.
--
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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 23:04:59 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gilles Fourchet)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:04:59 -0400
Subject: Debian modules question
In-Reply-To: <20030928143223.GA12718-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030928143223.GA12718@m450>
Message-ID: <20030928190459.1ca7d70c.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>

Hi,

I am using Debian as well.  I definitely recommend a network install.  Go on the Debian web site and download the boot floppy disks.  Once booted, you continue the installation on the net.  If you want a CD install, as far as I know, the only available kernel is 2.x.  That means that, if you want to use iptables (which I recommend), you will have to download the 2.4 image and compile it. If you choose to do so, put as much as you can as a module (the only think that you really need in the kernel is the HD driver of course).  Despite there is no gain in speed (nor any lose actually), I find it easier to manage.

Now, about the modules and iptables.  To have a module loaded at the boot, put in the file /etc/modules.  That's it.  With respect to iptables, you just have to create a script with all the parameters you want and put it in /etc/init.d/.  Then you go in the /etc/rc?.d (? being a number from 1 to 6) and you create the correct link to have iptables started at boot.

I hope my explanations have been clear and help full.

Gilles

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 10:32:23 -0400
waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   I'm about to seriously try Debian on my second PC.  I got to the
> installation phase where a whole slew of modules is available for
> compiling into the kernel.  Is it really necessary, or can most modules
> be loaded at boot time?  I'm referring to stuff like network card,
> netfilter/iptables, sound, etc.  Iptables has a huge submenu, with stuff
> that should obviously be included (e.g. LOG, REJECT, etc.).  As long as
> there's no significant negative, I'd prefer module-loading versus
> building stuff into the kernel.  This implies a somewhat longer
> /etc/modules.conf file, plus I'd need some help figuring out the
> modules.conf file first time.
> 
>   If this works, what is the minimal additional stuff I need to build
> into the kernel?  I'm starting the install from CD 5 to get ReiserFS.
> 
> -- 
> Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
> Email users are divided into two classes;
> 1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
> 2) Those who wish they did
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Sun Sep 28 23:56:06 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 19:56:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Debian modules question
In-Reply-To: <20030928190459.1ca7d70c.gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030928143223.GA12718@m450> <20030928190459.1ca7d70c.gilles.fourchet@canada.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309281952510.1974@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003, Gilles Fourchet wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am using Debian as well.  I definitely recommend a network install.
> Go on the Debian web site and download the boot floppy disks.  Once
> booted, you continue the installation on the net.  If you want a CD
> install, as far as I know, the only available kernel is 2.x.  That means

I guess you mean 2.2.x here.  You can install a 2.4 kernel instead of a
2.2 kernel in Debian woody by selecting the bf2.4 image at install time.
Imho this should have been made the default but it wasn't.

There are also good "non-standard" boot CDs and boot mini-CDs available.
I usually use the 185MB mini-CD or a the 35MB XFS mini-CD available via
links from www.debian.org.

> that, if you want to use iptables (which I recommend), you will have to
> download the 2.4 image and compile it. If you choose to do so, put as

I recommend a user doing this anyway when they get more experienced, but
as noted above it isn't necessary to get Debian going with 2.4.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 01:43:24 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:43:24 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca> <20030928140518.GA2354@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F778E3C.1070007@sympatico.ca>

Austin wrote:

> On 09/28/2003 01:43:23 PM, Moniz wrote:
>
>> Here comes the "except". Within reznet, they seem to have some kind 
>> of p2p  for sharing files and I think it's only for the reznet 
>> people. Since it's  somewhat restricted, it is very fast. There is a 
>> web site for downloading  the required software for file sharing, but 
>> of course, it's a .exe file, and  she couldn't make it work. So I get 
>> complaints that Linux can't download  files.
>
>
> I'm on the graduate residence's network here at york.  All works 
> perfectly.   Are you sure they're sharing files by p2p and not just 
> regular file sharing?   Here we used to have appletalk and ipx, but 
> now they have limited it only to  windows networking.  This of course 
> works fine through samba in mandrake (for  me at least).  I use 
> linneighborhood or whatever it's called. 

They have to download a program to shre the files, so I don't think it's 
regular file sharing.

>
>
> If you can find out what p2p they are using, I can likely find a 
> linux  equivalent. 

I'll try to find that out - may not be too easy from here.

Thanks,

John.


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 01:49:55 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 21:49:55 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030928160557.28a1a1ce.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030928160557.28a1a1ce.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20030928214955.5f0c45ec.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 28 Sep 2003 16:05:57 -0400
Chris Keelan <rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Why use balsa over Sylpheed?

Well it didn't take as long as I thought.

Two things killed it for me...well, actually 3.

1. There *is* a GTK2 port of Sylpheed (yay!) and it compiles without a
whole whack of stuff.

2. Balsa will not do one thing that I must, I say, *must* have as a
feature, which is to automagically prune text to reply to by simply
selecting it with my mouse in the preview pane and hitting "reply". 

3. Balsa has GoTo Next for Message, Unread Message, and Marked Message,
but no GoTo Previous, which, in a folder with over 1000 messages... :-(

Nice lookin' though, and it's Gnome/GTK2/GNU, so I certainly see it as a
great project, but I just don't have the high-power needs for all of the
features it *does* have, and it's missing a couple that I really don't
want to give up.

I learned a lot trying to compile it though!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One meets his destiny often on the road he takes to avoid it.
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From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 13:21:07 2003
From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:21:07 -0400
Subject: virus annoyance
Message-ID: <20030929131741.7496418844@outbox.allstream.net>

I recently converted all my email from Eudora on an old Windows 95 box over 
to Kmail.

I'm still on a dialup service.      Unfortunately as far as I can tell Kmail 
doesn't have a way to clip emails with attachments as Eudora did.    With the 
rash of Microsoft virus emails lately I'm having to wait considerable time to 
download all the virus attachments.     This morning alone I got 6Meg worth.

There has to be a better way.     Any suggestions?  pine?
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 13:25:54 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:25:54 -0400
Subject: virus annoyance
In-Reply-To: <20030929131741.7496418844-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929131741.7496418844@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <200309290925.54174.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 29 September 2003 09:21, bob findlay wrote:

> I'm still on a dialup service.      Unfortunately as far as I can tell
> Kmail doesn't have a way to clip emails with attachments as Eudora did.  

Sounds like a useful feature, unfortunately all of the pop clients that I am 
familiar with are pretty dumb.  I don't see why a pop client can't let you 
preview messages before downloading and then give you the option to download 
or delete on a case-by-case basis.  I'd be interested to hear if any Linux 
pop clients let you manage mail more interactively instead of the typical 
download all/delete all.

>  With the rash of Microsoft virus emails lately I'm having to wait
> considerable time to download all the virus attachments.     This morning
> alone I got 6Meg worth.

If you're ISP has a webmail service you could preview your messages from there 
before downloading them with kmail.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 13:41:57 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:41:57 -0400
Subject: virus annoyance
In-Reply-To: <200309290925.54174.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929131741.7496418844@outbox.allstream.net> <200309290925.54174.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200309290941.57899.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 29 September 2003 09:25, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> If you're ISP has a webmail service you could preview your messages from
> there before downloading them with kmail.

Or if your ISP offers IMAP access then you might see improved performance that 
way as well ... 

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 13:54:14 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:54:14 -0400
Subject: virus annoyance
In-Reply-To: <20030929131741.7496418844-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929131741.7496418844@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <20030929095414.4a307107.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 09:21:07 -0400
bob findlay <fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I recently converted all my email from Eudora on an old Windows 95 box
> over to Kmail.
> 
> I'm still on a dialup service.      Unfortunately as far as I can tell
> Kmail doesn't have a way to clip emails with attachments as Eudora
> did.    With the rash of Microsoft virus emails lately I'm having to
> wait considerable time to download all the virus attachments.     This
> morning alone I got 6Meg worth.
> 
> There has to be a better way.     Any suggestions?  pine?

Mailfilter has been reasonably successful at deleting them off the
server for me before fetchmail downloads my mail.

There's a howto I wrote here:

http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/MailFilter#Fetchmail_Mailfilter

It's been expanded upon quite a bit, but the basics are pretty simple.
If you do decide to use Mailfilter, I've got some example RegExp filters
that have caught a lot of the recent virus-laden stuff, and I let
procmail take care of the rest.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life is knowing how far to go without crossing the line.
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 14:07:24 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gardner Bell)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:07:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

Morning

Thanks all who helped me out with my mixer issues, problem solved with that.
Now for an issue that has been pestering me for about 2 months now.  During the
normal course of a day I'm receiving 20-30 pings every minute from users of
rogers.com which generally amounts to me reviewing about 1400 pings in logwatch
daily.  On numerous occasions I've spoke with tech support who have redirected
me to abuse-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org where I send all the logs of this activity to but they
don't seem to do anything about it.
I'm curious if there is a way to stop logging this completely as it makes
reading logs extremely difficult.

Thanks

Gardner



 10:02:31 up 9 days, 22:48,  1 user,  load average: 0.00, 0.02, 0.00
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 14:26:56 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:26:56 -0400
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200309291026.56763.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 29 September 2003 10:07, Gardner Bell wrote:

> I'm curious if there is a way to stop logging this completely as it makes
> reading logs extremely difficult.

Don't read the logs.  Use a program such as logwatch to pull out only the 
interesting messages.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 14:57:39 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:57:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Morning
>
> Thanks all who helped me out with my mixer issues, problem solved with
> that. Now for an issue that has been pestering me for about 2 months
> now.  During the normal course of a day I'm receiving 20-30 pings every
> minute from users of rogers.com which generally amounts to me reviewing
> about 1400 pings in logwatch daily.  On numerous occasions I've spoke
> with tech support who have redirected me to abuse-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org where I
> send all the logs of this activity to but they don't seem to do anything
> about it.
> I'm curious if there is a way to stop logging this completely as it
> makes reading logs extremely difficult.

kill icmp type 8 (echo request) at the firewall

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 15:16:23 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:16:23 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030925215540.3e0564bf.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030925215540.3e0564bf.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030929111420.070b3eb8@localhost>

At 09:55 PM 25/09/2003 -0400, Howard Gibson wrote:
>    Does anyone know of a bulletproof strategy for sending email to Mac 
> OS/X users?
>
>    I just tried to forward a file using Sylpheed.  The recipient has 
> replied saying that she cannot read MIME attachments.  I do not have 
> access to her machine, so I do not know what she is seeing on her screen.

It may be the usual encoding/decoding issue. I always use Stuffit to encode 
and compress files before sending them out to Mac users.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 14:37:10 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:37:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: PDF/gs or LaTeX problem
In-Reply-To: <E1A2zng-0000g4-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1A2zng-0000g4-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <31534.199.64.0.252.1064846230.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


Mailing List said:
> Hi,
>
>  I have only recently got this problem.  I think
> latex is fine, since I get what looks like valid
> postscript.  I only get this problem when I run
> ps2pdf...
>
> Error: /undefined in 0.8,
> Operand stack:
>
> Execution stack:
>   %interp_exit   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--
>   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--
>   --nostringval--   --nostringval--   false   1   %stopped_push   1   3
>     %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3
>    %oparray_pop   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--
>   --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--
>   --nostringval--   --nostringval--
> Dictionary stack:
>   --dict:1063/1123(ro)(G)--   --dict:0/20(G)--   --dict:86/200(L)--
>   --dict:208/300(L)--
> Current allocation mode is local
> Last OS error: 2
> Current file position is 197049
> GNU Ghostscript 7.07: Unrecoverable error, exit code 1
>
>
> Any ideas?

I've found pdflatex produces better pdf's with fewer errors.  Have you
given it a try?
Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/



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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 14:44:14 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 10:44:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: PDF/gs or LaTeX problem
In-Reply-To: <20030926223824.A10321-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1A2zng-0000g4-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
        <20030926223824.A10321@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <7348.199.64.0.252.1064846654.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

Good thinking.  Perhaps using dvi2pdf would work better than dvips then
ps2pdf.  This is what I love about *nix tools, there's always 2^n ways to
skin a cat, where n is some arbitrarily large number.
Kareem

Peter Hiscocks said:
>
> When the latex file is processed to .dvi, can you view the output using
> xdvi? Peter
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 26, 2003 at 05:06:52PM -0400, Mailing List wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>>   I have only recently got this problem.  I think
>> latex is fine, since I get what looks like valid
>> postscript.  I only get this problem when I run
>> ps2pdf...
>>
>> Error: /undefined in 0.8,
>> Operand stack:
>>
>> Execution stack:
>>    %interp_exit   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--
>>    --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--
>>    --nostringval--   --nostringval--   false   1   %stopped_push   1
>>    3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1   3   %oparray_pop   1
>>     3   %oparray_pop   .runexec2   --nostringval--   --nostringval--
>>    --nostringval--   2   %stopped_push   --nostringval--
>>    --nostringval--   --nostringval--
>> Dictionary stack:
>>    --dict:1063/1123(ro)(G)--   --dict:0/20(G)--   --dict:86/200(L)--
>>    --dict:208/300(L)--
>> Current allocation mode is local
>> Last OS error: 2
>> Current file position is 197049
>> GNU Ghostscript 7.07: Unrecoverable error, exit code 1
>>
>>
>> Any ideas?
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG
>> requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
> Peter D. Hiscocks
> Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
> Ryerson University,
> 350 Victoria Street,
> Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada
>
> Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
> Fax:     (416) 979-5280
> Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
> URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/



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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 15:38:59 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:38:59 -0400
Subject: PDF/gs or LaTeX problem
In-Reply-To: <7348.199.64.0.252.1064846654.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>; from kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org on Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 10:44:14AM -0400
References: <E1A2zng-0000g4-00@cage.robertsearle.com> <20030926223824.A10321@ee.ryerson.ca> <7348.199.64.0.252.1064846654.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <20030929113859.B1178@ee.ryerson.ca>


Definitely. But also, in my experience, the display is much nicer when using
xdvi than when using ghostview.

BTW, you might want to look at the document on my webpage 'using xfig' which
talks about using xfig with latex.

Peter

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 10:44:14AM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> Good thinking.  Perhaps using dvi2pdf would work better than dvips then
> ps2pdf.  This is what I love about *nix tools, there's always 2^n ways to
> skin a cat, where n is some arbitrarily large number.
> Kareem
> 
> Peter Hiscocks said:
> >
> > When the latex file is processed to .dvi, can you view the output using
> > xdvi? Peter
> >

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 15:43:29 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (captn_silver)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 11:43:29 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20030929111420.070b3eb8@localhost>
Message-ID: <000901c386a0$70659260$0200a8c0@viper>


You've send her a file.
What kind of file is it?
Does she know what kind of  file it is ?
What does she have installed that should read it? (ie. Mac Office)


----- Original Message -----
From: "CLIFFORD ILKAY" <clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 11:16 AM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: MacIntoshes


> At 09:55 PM 25/09/2003 -0400, Howard Gibson wrote:
> >    Does anyone know of a bulletproof strategy for sending email to Mac
> > OS/X users?
> >
> >    I just tried to forward a file using Sylpheed.  The recipient has
> > replied saying that she cannot read MIME attachments.  I do not have
> > access to her machine, so I do not know what she is seeing on her
screen.
>
> It may be the usual encoding/decoding issue. I always use Stuffit to
encode
> and compress files before sending them out to Mac users.
>
> Regards,
>
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis Corporation
> 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
> Toronto, Ontario
> Canada M4N 3P6
>
> Tel: 416-410-3326
>
> mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 17:17:31 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:17:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: virus annoyance
In-Reply-To: <20030929131741.7496418844-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929131741.7496418844@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <16623.199.64.0.252.1064855851.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


bob findlay said:
> I recently converted all my email from Eudora on an old Windows 95 box
> over  to Kmail.
>
> I'm still on a dialup service.      Unfortunately as far as I can tell
> Kmail  doesn't have a way to clip emails with attachments as Eudora
> did.    With the  rash of Microsoft virus emails lately I'm having to
> wait considerable time to  download all the virus attachments.     This
> morning alone I got 6Meg worth.
>
> There has to be a better way.     Any suggestions?  pine?

Ask your ISP if they can setup a procmail or other filter.  If you had
shell access you could put it into your .procmail file yourself.
Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/



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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 20:07:21 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:07:21 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
Message-ID: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>

Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of <dyndsn.org>
which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP.  Would you
recommend them?  If not, then which one?

Thanks.
-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 19:36:16 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 15:36:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030929200721.GA5588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1375.199.64.0.253.1064864176.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

I've used no-ip.com for about the last year and a half.  Their support so
far has been great, and very little downtime (i.e. updates failed for all
of three hours once).
However, they don't support TXT records for Freeswan's OE.  I've heard
rumours that there is a dynamic IP provider that does, but I'm heading for
static IP anyway.
Kareem

William Park said:
> Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of <dyndsn.org>
> which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP.  Would you
> recommend them?  If not, then which one?
>
> Thanks.
> --
> William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
> Linux solution for data management and processing.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Everything has its beauty but not everyone sees it.
    -- Confucius
 ********************************************************************/



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From pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 20:22:54 2003
From: pegasoft-40qIwYH5687wQaAp52fGBB2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (dan braun)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:22:54 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030929200721.GA5588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <000001c386c7$7bde3580$c864a8c0@teknix>

Hi,

I'm using www.dhs.org and they are good as well, but it cost $5 US per
year.

You could also checkout www.tzo.com. I've not used them, but a friend of
mine has for sometime now, with no complaints.

Dan

--
Dan Braun - PegaSoft Canada / CityTV
danb.nospam-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of William
Park
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:07 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Question regarding dynamic DNS

Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of <dyndsn.org>
which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP.  Would you
recommend them?  If not, then which one?

Thanks.
-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 20:28:53 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:28:53 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030929200721.GA5588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20030929162853.2af3426c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:07:21 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of
> <dyndsn.org> which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP. 
> Would you recommend them?  If not, then which one?
> 
> Thanks.

http://www.zoneedit.com/

free dynamic DNS for your own domain name!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Fill what's empty, empty what's full, scratch where it itches.
		-- Alice Roosevelt Longworth
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 20:43:07 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:43:07 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030929200721.GA5588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <200309291643.07170.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 29 September 2003 16:07, William Park wrote:

> Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of <dyndsn.org>
> which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP.  Would you
> recommend them?  If not, then which one?

I use them.  No problem that I've seen so far.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 17:12:33 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:12:33 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: latin 1, xfig?
In-Reply-To: <3F772855.F3A65E9C-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F772855.F3A65E9C@qef.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309292005490.743@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


My xfig does not support this. What version do you use ? Alt-XX encoding
should be a xmodmap incantation, and not related to xfig. You should be
able to generate any symbol by editing ~/.xmodmaprc.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 17:18:34 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:18:34 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: virus annoyance
In-Reply-To: <20030929131741.7496418844-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929131741.7496418844@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309292016420.743@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, bob findlay wrote:

> I recently converted all my email from Eudora on an old Windows 95 box over
> to Kmail.
>
> I'm still on a dialup service.      Unfortunately as far as I can tell Kmail
> doesn't have a way to clip emails with attachments as Eudora did.    With the
> rash of Microsoft virus emails lately I'm having to wait considerable time to
> download all the virus attachments.     This morning alone I got 6Meg worth.
>
> There has to be a better way.     Any suggestions?  pine?

I use pine. Pine will get everything too. You have to look into a spam
filter at your email provider (remember that you ca easily have an email
provider who is not the same as your isp when considering this).

Peter
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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 22:16:45 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:16:45 -0400
Subject: virus annoyance
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309292016420.743-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929131741.7496418844@outbox.allstream.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309292016420.743@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20030929181557.0282ae00@pop1.sympatico.ca>

SpamCop offers email.

At 01:18 PM 9/29/03, you wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, bob findlay wrote:
>
> > I recently converted all my email from Eudora on an old Windows 95 box over
> > to Kmail.
> >
> > I'm still on a dialup service.      Unfortunately as far as I can tell 
> Kmail
> > doesn't have a way to clip emails with attachments as Eudora 
> did.    With the
> > rash of Microsoft virus emails lately I'm having to wait considerable 
> time to
> > download all the virus attachments.     This morning alone I got 6Meg 
> worth.
> >
> > There has to be a better way.     Any suggestions?  pine?
>
>I use pine. Pine will get everything too. You have to look into a spam
>filter at your email provider (remember that you ca easily have an email
>provider who is not the same as your isp when considering this).
>
>Peter
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 22:58:15 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 18:58:15 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030929162853.2af3426c.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net> <20030929162853.2af3426c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030929225815.GA834@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Sep 29, 2003 at 04:28:53PM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> > Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of
> > <dyndsn.org> which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP. 
> > Would you recommend them?  If not, then which one?
> 
> http://www.zoneedit.com/
> 
> free dynamic DNS for your own domain name!

Thanks Joe.  Yes, I do have a domain, in fact; and, this is exactly what
I was looking for.  

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 29 23:02:06 2003
From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Mr6re90re4oug4)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 19:02:06 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030929200721.GA5588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <200309291902.07082.mr6re9@execulink.com>

On Monday 29 September 2003 16:07, William Park wrote:
> Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of <dyndsn.org>
> which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP.  Would you
> recommend them?  If not, then which one?
>
> Thanks.

I use it and it's ok. There are other choices besides xyz.dyndns.org. I chose 
isa-geek.org. The web login to update your ip address was only down once in 
the last 6 months so it's reliable. They like to see you login and refresh at 
least every thirty days even if your ip hasn't changed.
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From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 00:14:10 2003
From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:14:10 -0400
Subject: latin 1, xfig?
References: <3F772855.F3A65E9C@qef.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309292005490.743@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F78CAD2.2505E44E@qef.com>

"Peter L. Peres" wrote:
> 
> My xfig does not support this. What version do you use ? Alt-XX encoding
> should be a xmodmap incantation, and not related to xfig. You should be
> able to generate any symbol by editing ~/.xmodmaprc.
> 
> Peter

In reply to:

David Tilbrook wrote:
> 
> xfig has support for the Latin-1 characters in that one
> can use the Atl key followed by a two letter encoding to
> yield characters in the non-ascii range.  For example
> Alt-SO yields ? (the section sign).
> 
> Q: Does anyone know of other programs that use the same
>    encoding?  Is it some sort of standard?
> 
> Q: Does anyone know the xfig encoding for the acute accent
>    ? decimal 180, octal 264?  I've been able to map 0241
>    through 0376, but 0264 eludes me.
> 
> -- david

xfig 3.2.2 Text entry allowed Alt-XX to get special latin-1
characters.  It has nothing to do with xmodmap (which incidently
has the most obfuscating man page ever).

See: http://www.xfig.org/userman/drawing.html#compose-char

Having not received an answer from tlug, I wrote to Brian
Smith (xfig creator) and got the answer I wanted.

Thanks anyway.

-- david
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From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 00:58:53 2003
From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 20:58:53 -0400
Subject: latin 1, xfig?
References: <3F772855.F3A65E9C@qef.com>
Message-ID: <3F78D54D.72C48EC8@qef.com>

Previously I wrote ...

David Tilbrook wrote:
> 
> xfig has support for the Latin-1 characters in that one
> can use the Atl key followed by a two letter encoding to
> yield characters in the non-ascii range.  For example
> Alt-SO yields ? (the section sign).
> 
> Q: Does anyone know of other programs that use the same
>    encoding?  Is it some sort of standard?
> 
> Q: Does anyone know the xfig encoding for the acute accent
>    ? decimal 180, octal 264?  I've been able to map 0241
>    through 0376, but 0264 eludes me.
> 
> -- david

The answer is that /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xfig/CompKeyDB
contains the mapping so it's not clear than any other
program uses it.

The spacing acute (180) is inserted using Alt-\\ (really).
The spacing cedilla (184) was missing from the table
so it's been added as Alt-,,.

-- david
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From offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 04:30:11 2003
From: offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:30:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: .sxw files now .zip
Message-ID: <20030930043011.75704.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com>

After my latest 'apt-get dist-upgrade' on this box,
all my .sxw files in KDE now identify themselves as
.zip archives. The icon has changed, and a left-click
on the file to open in OpenOffice instead displays a
breakdown of the file into its xml components -
meta-inf, content.xml, layout-cache, meta.xml,
settings.xml, and styles.xml .

Inside OpenOffice itself, going to the menubar and
'File/Open..' and selecting the file will open it and
display it correctly formatted.

What do I need to fix so that .sxw file's icons
identify as OpenOffice files, and open the correct
corresponding application (as they did previously)? A
search through Google Groups identified a similar
problem last year with .sxw files under Gnome, with no
solution at the time of posting.

Thanks for any help... Daniel


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 01:10:18 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 21:10:18 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030929200721.GA5588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <3F78D7FA.6070202@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:
> Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of <dyndsn.org>
> which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP.  Would you
> recommend them?  If not, then which one?
> 
> Thanks.


i used dyndns.org- with one of the automatic update clients.. works 
pretty good. you could donate $30.00 and get your own toplevel domain 
like www.yourname.com etc.. i had that for a while-- no problems with 
it- with the client; i never had to bother with manually updating the IP.

regards,
Kerry


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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 05:26:03 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 01:26:03 -0400
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <3F7913EB.2050703@rogers.com>

>> I'm curious if there is a way to stop logging this completely as it
>> makes reading logs extremely difficult.

> kill icmp type 8 (echo request) at the firewall

I did much the same sometime back for the same kind of reasons. 
Consequently I rarely receive interesting scans and nothing that I'd 
ever call a serious crack has been attempted. That is not to say that 
reading the pf logfile in Ethereal isn't entertaining... pleasing 
results on one hand, but disappointing on the other; do people really 
give up so easily? Too lazy to type the extra -P0 for nmap? :)

And yes, I am aware of the great potential for humour if, lets say, I 
wake up tomorrow to find I've been 0wNeD by an 31337 hAxX0r ;)

-- 

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From clark-FcERjQtIsMjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 06:19:56 2003
From: clark-FcERjQtIsMjQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Robert J. Clark)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:19:56 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <pan.2003.09.30.06.19.52.929035@exiter.com>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003 16:07:21 -0400, William Park wrote:
> Which Dynamic DNS do you (TLUG users) use?  I only know of <dyndsn.org>
> which resolves <yourname.dyndsn.org> to your dynamic IP.  Would you
> recommend them?  If not, then which one?

I use easydns.com and have for serveral years without any problems at all.
I would recommend them to anyone looking for dynamic DNS as well as static
IP DNS management.

- Rob

-- 
(sigless)

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From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 12:57:39 2003
From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:57:39 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: .sxw files now .zip
In-Reply-To: <20030930043011.75704.qmail-LTaLDYvINgOA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930043011.75704.qmail@web40809.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030930125739.19862.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com>

> What do I need to fix so that .sxw file's icons
> identify as OpenOffice files, and open the correct
> corresponding application (as they did previously)?
> A
> search through Google Groups identified a similar
> problem last year with .sxw files under Gnome, with
> no
> solution at the time of posting.

Hi
You can edit the preferred application to open it,
right-clicking on the .sxw file. In the menu, there
are two tabs, I bet 'use embebbed app' is marked. Try
to uncheck that... 
See if OpenOffice is at the top of the list of
applications that can deal with .sxw too.


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 13:16:09 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:16:09 -0400
Subject: Using EXT3 to install Win32 software
Message-ID: <001b01c38755$05fe55f0$0200a8c0@viper>


I network mapped drive Z:  which is a samba 2.28a share of a large EXT3
partition.
I would like to install some Win32 software, say Office2002 onto drive Z..

Will this work?
Is there more overhead with Samba and inodes and EXT3?
Dont get upset cause im using some Win32 stuff,  im just trying new things
with Linux. (RH9)

























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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 13:34:31 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:34:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <3F78D7FA.6070202-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F78D7FA.6070202@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300933220.6888@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Kerry Panchoo wrote:

> i used dyndns.org- with one of the automatic update clients.. works
> pretty good. you could donate $30.00 and get your own toplevel domain
> like www.yourname.com etc.. i had that for a while-- no problems with

That's actually a 2nd level domain (often abbreviated to 2ld).  Getting
your own top level domain (tld) would be like getting .kerry :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 13:44:32 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:44:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Using EXT3 to install Win32 software
In-Reply-To: <001b01c38755$05fe55f0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <001b01c38755$05fe55f0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300935040.6888@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, teddymills wrote:

>
> I network mapped drive Z:  which is a samba 2.28a share of a large EXT3
> partition.

If you share the data to MS-Windows using samba than the MS-Windows boxes
are never aware of what filesystem type the data is stored on.  There is
no problem exporting data via samba which is stored on an ext3fs, infact
people do it all the time.

> I would like to install some Win32 software, say Office2002 onto drive Z..
>
> Will this work?
> Is there more overhead with Samba and inodes and EXT3?

As opposed to? If you want to export the filesystem over a network the
options are limited - nfs or samba being the 2 mainstream choices although
their are alternatives.  The performance of the filesystem and samba will
have to be slower than a native, local, filesystem, but speed isn't the
reason people use network filesystems.

If you are wanting to compare ext3 to say, ntfs as a local filesystem
under Linux, ext3 will come out on top easily as it is a native
performance optimised filesystem while the ntfs support is meant for
reading files from time to time.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 13:47:57 2003
From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:47:57 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300933220.6888-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F78D7FA.6070202@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300933220.6888@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20030930134757.GI1516@seahorse>

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 09:34:31AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> > i used dyndns.org- with one of the automatic update clients.. works
> > pretty good. you could donate $30.00 and get your own toplevel domain
> > like www.yourname.com etc.. i had that for a while-- no problems with
> 
> That's actually a 2nd level domain (often abbreviated to 2ld).  Getting
> your own top level domain (tld) would be like getting .kerry :)

Yes, you can get your own .dyndns.org from the DynDNS folks, but with
the $30 donation ($US I might add) you get enrolled in the mydyndns
program which offers, among other things, the ability to delegate your
tld to their nameservers.  DynDNS isn't a domain registrar Kerry, they
just provide the DNS service and the dynamic updating ability.

Andy
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 13:42:02 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gardner Bell)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:42:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <3F7913EB.2050703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <3F7913EB.2050703@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300937100.29424@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

I've killed off icmp echo requests long ago actually, I just find it more a
nuisance that these people persist daily and nightly to find an opening in my
firewall.  And as Mr Sonne suggested I'd much rather have someone scan my entire
network with -PO before pinging me because it seems to be slowing my network
down at times to a complete crawl with them occurring as often as they do.
Thanks for your replies

-- 
Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
GPG Fingerprint
C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Byron Sonne wrote:

> >> I'm curious if there is a way to stop logging this completely as it
> >> makes reading logs extremely difficult.
>
> > kill icmp type 8 (echo request) at the firewall
>
> I did much the same sometime back for the same kind of reasons.
> Consequently I rarely receive interesting scans and nothing that I'd
> ever call a serious crack has been attempted. That is not to say that
> reading the pf logfile in Ethereal isn't entertaining... pleasing
> results on one hand, but disappointing on the other; do people really
> give up so easily? Too lazy to type the extra -P0 for nmap? :)
>
> And yes, I am aware of the great potential for humour if, lets say, I
> wake up tomorrow to find I've been 0wNeD by an 31337 hAxX0r ;)
>
>
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 13:48:45 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:48:45 -0400
Subject: Using EXT3 to install Win32 software
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300935040.6888-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <001b01c38755$05fe55f0$0200a8c0@viper>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300935040.6888@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <1064929724.3815.24.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

I have a customer who runs server-based windows apps off a samba/ext3
share and it is fine. It is a small LAN (6/7 pcs) so I can't say how
well it will scale but as Rob said I can't see it being much faster or
slower than other files systems. 

Madison

On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 09:44, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, teddymills wrote:
> 
> >
> > I network mapped drive Z:  which is a samba 2.28a share of a large EXT3
> > partition.
> 
> If you share the data to MS-Windows using samba than the MS-Windows boxes
> are never aware of what filesystem type the data is stored on.  There is
> no problem exporting data via samba which is stored on an ext3fs, infact
> people do it all the time.
> 
> > I would like to install some Win32 software, say Office2002 onto drive Z..
> >
> > Will this work?
> > Is there more overhead with Samba and inodes and EXT3?
> 
> As opposed to? If you want to export the filesystem over a network the
> options are limited - nfs or samba being the 2 mainstream choices although
> their are alternatives.  The performance of the filesystem and samba will
> have to be slower than a native, local, filesystem, but speed isn't the
> reason people use network filesystems.
> 
> If you are wanting to compare ext3 to say, ntfs as a local filesystem
> under Linux, ext3 will come out on top easily as it is a native
> performance optimised filesystem while the ntfs support is meant for
> reading files from time to time.
> 
> Rob
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 13:50:34 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:50:34 -0400
Subject: Question regarding dynamic DNS
In-Reply-To: <20030930134757.GI1516-5ttTcWKSjlQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030929200721.GA5588@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F78D7FA.6070202@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300933220.6888@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <20030930134757.GI1516@seahorse>
Message-ID: <3F798A2A.70303@rogers.com>

sorry-- didnt mean to imply that..

 > DynDNS isn't a domain registrar Kerry, they
> just provide the DNS service and the dynamic updating ability.
> 
> Andy
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 



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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 14:36:17 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 10:36:17 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
In-Reply-To: <3F771DBB.6060703-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030930143617.GL13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:43:23PM -0400, Moniz wrote:
> Does anyone know much about the UWO residence setup? I configured my 
> daughter's PC to use Mandrake 9.1 in her residence at UWO. They are on a 
> residence network called reznet. All seems to be working fine.
> 
> Here comes the "except". Within reznet, they seem to have some kind of 
> p2p for sharing files and I think it's only for the reznet people. Since 
> it's somewhat restricted, it is very fast. There is a web site for 
> downloading the required software for file sharing, but of course, it's 
> a .exe file, and she couldn't make it work. So I get complaints that 
> Linux can't download files.
> 
> Does anyone know if a linux p2p program (I use gtk-gnutella at home) 
> could be used for this? What configuration questions should I be asking 
> the reznet admin people so that I could duplicate in the linux program?
> 
> Any guidance would be appreciated.

If they really do officially use p2p to share files (I can't imagine
whos bright idea that was), then perhas mldonkey will work.  It supports
some 10 or so p2p protocols.

Might work.  Knowing which protocol is really what you need to know.

Lennart Sorensen
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From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 15:09:13 2003
From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:09:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
Message-ID: <20030930150913.88487.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi

Yahoo has tried to block third party software from
connecting to his network (although Gaim seems to have
success connecting with the new protocol in the last
version). 
M$N is going to close third party software too on
October 15th.
The question is: what shall we use for IM? ICQ is an
option, LICQ is pretty nice... Jabber? People is used
to use smilies, Jabber has them?

I think this sort of policies that are having IM
giants are very bad for everyone... And that??s why I
think that something Free has to arise to fill the
holes they are going to leave...

I would like to say to a window$ user 'if you want to
use a free IM you can use %' but % is unknown for me
now.

What do you think about it?

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From offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 15:57:58 2003
From: offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:57:58 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: .sxw files now .zip
In-Reply-To: <20030930125739.19862.qmail-cWycRTgBLDyA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930125739.19862.qmail@web14508.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20030930155758.52156.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com>

-- Martin C <forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > What do I need to fix so that .sxw file's icons
> > identify as OpenOffice files, and open the correct
> > corresponding application (as they did
> previously)?
> > A
> > search through Google Groups identified a similar
> > problem last year with .sxw files under Gnome,
> with
> > no
> > solution at the time of posting.
> 
> Hi
> You can edit the preferred application to open it,
> right-clicking on the .sxw file. In the menu, there
> are two tabs, I bet 'use embebbed app' is marked.
> Try
> to uncheck that... 
> See if OpenOffice is at the top of the list of
> applications that can deal with .sxw too.

Hi Martin... My problem is that these .sxw files are
identified as zip archives. When I right-click on the
icon to edit file type, the file is identified as a
zip file (with prefix '.zip', even though the file
itself is prefixed '.sxw').

'Embedded App' is not selected.

I even tried modifying file treatment so that the
default application for opening zip files would be
OpenOffice Writer 1.1, but a left-click on the .sxw
icon still only breaks down the file into its xml
components. Only by manually opening the file does it
display properly in OpenOffice.

My question is... How do I restore KDE settings to see
.sxw as OpenOffice files?

Thanks... Daniel

__________________________________
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The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 15:45:05 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:45:05 -0400
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <20030930150913.88487.qmail-ugbtuMWqwv6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930150913.88487.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200309301145.06004.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 11:09 am, Martin C wrote:
> Hi
>
> Yahoo has tried to block third party software from
> connecting to his network (although Gaim seems to have
> success connecting with the new protocol in the last
> version).
> M$N is going to close third party software too on
> October 15th.
> The question is: what shall we use for IM? ICQ is an
> option, LICQ is pretty nice... Jabber? People is used
> to use smilies, Jabber has them?

That is probably dependent on the client that you use.  There certainly are 
smilies available using Gaim and jabber, if you must use them.  

I can personally recommend jabber, which I turned to because I DIDN'T want to 
use someone else's server.  Setting up your own jabber server is not very 
difficult.   

CB
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 16:14:20 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:14:20 -0400
Subject: .sxw files now .zip
In-Reply-To: <20030930155758.52156.qmail-OgxjxzjGBLKA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930155758.52156.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200309301214.20911.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 11:57, Daniel Armstrong wrote:

> I even tried modifying file treatment so that the
> default application for opening zip files would be
> OpenOffice Writer 1.1, but a left-click on the .sxw
> icon still only breaks down the file into its xml
> components. Only by manually opening the file does it
> display properly in OpenOffice.
>
> My question is... How do I restore KDE settings to see
> .sxw as OpenOffice files?

When I right-click on a .sxw file and select "edit file type" I get the 
following:

- filename patterns, *.sxw ... add that if you don't see it, probably remove
  other things
- Description, OpenOffice.org 1.0 Text Document
- Application Preference Order, OOO 1.1.0 Math, OOO 1.1.0 Writer, OO Writer

Clearly my application preference order doesn't make a lot of sense but it 
works.  Make sure you have an application pointing to /usr/bin/oowriter (or 
whatever your binary is for that).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 16:20:27 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:20:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <20030930150913.88487.qmail-ugbtuMWqwv6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930150913.88487.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301214570.6888@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Martin C wrote:

> Yahoo has tried to block third party software from
> connecting to his network (although Gaim seems to have
> success connecting with the new protocol in the last
> version).
> M$N is going to close third party software too on
> October 15th.

These companies have always had trouble with the concept of
interoperability - ie the concept on which the entire Internet is built.
The Internet has had nothing but trouble since large greedy corporations
got involved :(

> The question is: what shall we use for IM? ICQ is an
> option, LICQ is pretty nice... Jabber? People is used

ICQ is an option but many people aren't so fond of it these days.

> to use smilies, Jabber has them?

To be honest I still prefer IRC.  The whole "Bob is now online" thing
built into todays IM s/w does nothing for me :)

> I think this sort of policies that are having IM
> giants are very bad for everyone... And that?s why I

Definately.  It stifles the interoperability that got the Internet going i
the first place.  These companies forget that the free Internet, ignored
by business for a long time, trounced all over Compuserve and AOL had to
connect to the Internet or risk its wraith (see "The September that never
ended").

> think that something Free has to arise to fill the
> holes they are going to leave...

The alternative should already exist.  I'd need to check on an MS-Windows
based jabber client but if it exists it'd be perfect.

Rob

-- 
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Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 17:01:24 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:01:24 -0400
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301214570.6888-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930150913.88487.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301214570.6888@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <200309301301.24470.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 12:20 pm, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Martin C wrote:
> > Yahoo has tried to block third party software from
> > connecting to his network (although Gaim seems to have
> > success connecting with the new protocol in the last
> > version).
> > M$N is going to close third party software too on
> > October 15th.
>
> These companies have always had trouble with the concept of
> interoperability - ie the concept on which the entire Internet is built.
> The Internet has had nothing but trouble since large greedy corporations
> got involved :(
>
> > The question is: what shall we use for IM? ICQ is an
> > option, LICQ is pretty nice... Jabber? People is used
>
> ICQ is an option but many people aren't so fond of it these days.
>
> > to use smilies, Jabber has them?
>
> To be honest I still prefer IRC.  The whole "Bob is now online" thing
> built into todays IM s/w does nothing for me :)
>
> > I think this sort of policies that are having IM
> > giants are very bad for everyone... And that?s why I
>
> Definately.  It stifles the interoperability that got the Internet going i
> the first place.  These companies forget that the free Internet, ignored
> by business for a long time, trounced all over Compuserve and AOL had to
> connect to the Internet or risk its wraith (see "The September that never
> ended").
>
> > think that something Free has to arise to fill the
> > holes they are going to leave...
>
> The alternative should already exist.  I'd need to check on an MS-Windows
> based jabber client but if it exists it'd be perfect.

See

http://www.jabber.org/user/clientlist.php?PHPSESSID=a79a2d661d96ea59ec7304f7a6160e12

for windows jabber clients

Charly Baker
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 17:44:53 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gardner Bell)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:44:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after many
articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I read was on the
WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts, such as a
dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent in
the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of initialization
vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a rather small home
network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends 1500 byte packets at
11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after 1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 = ~18000
seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time increase or decrease using wireless with
Roger's or does it all depend on how much traffic my machines are sending?
What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if any of
you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info
that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.

thanks
 --
Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
GPG Fingerprint
C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F

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From sbarbour-uX10M8IjeSmR85p3v6+8aQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 15:55:05 2003
From: sbarbour-uX10M8IjeSmR85p3v6+8aQ at public.gmane.org (Steve Barbour)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 11:55:05 -0400
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <20030930150913.88487.qmail-ugbtuMWqwv6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930150913.88487.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>

I think this is a legal issue of protecting privacy as the companies
themselves would be liable for personal information that someone using these
tools could pass on or post about someone else without having their written
consent. It has to do with new privacy legislation such as the Canadian
PIPEDA laws. It isn't about charging for the use of the products this time!

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of Martin C
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 11:09 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Instant messaging --> now what?


Hi

Yahoo has tried to block third party software from
connecting to his network (although Gaim seems to have
success connecting with the new protocol in the last
version).
M$N is going to close third party software too on
October 15th.
The question is: what shall we use for IM? ICQ is an
option, LICQ is pretty nice... Jabber? People is used
to use smilies, Jabber has them?

I think this sort of policies that are having IM
giants are very bad for everyone... And that4s why I
think that something Free has to arise to fill the
holes they are going to leave...

I would like to say to a window$ user 'if you want to
use a free IM you can use %' but % is unknown for me
now.

What do you think about it?

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 17:39:06 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:39:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Asus A7N8X vs. Abit NF7-S Motherboard
Message-ID: <40563.199.64.0.253.1064943546.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


Does anyone have experience or comments with these motherboards?  I'd like
to finally set up my media centre PC, and I'm thinking of using one of
these since they offer built-in S/PDIF.  They both use the nForce2
chipset, and I think they both have the RealTek ALC650 audio chipset.  Has
anyone managed to get audio working on one of these?  All comments are
appreciated.
Thanks in advance,

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to
  learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for
  their apparent disinclination to do so.
    -- Douglas Adams, "Last Chance to See"
 ********************************************************************/



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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 17:43:33 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 13:43:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <29280.199.64.0.252.1064943813.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

WEP is useless.  I know people who have worked on either breaking it, or
securing 802.11 using better techniques.  While the first group of people
have had a great deal of success, the later have yet to get something
widely accepted in hardware.
You're best bet is to use something at a higher level than the
Data-Link-Layer.  Freeswan has a good solution for wireless lan's from
what I've heard.  You can also leave the IP-layer open, and secure the
application layer with SSL or something similar.
Good luck!

Kareem


Gardner Bell said:
> I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after
> many articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I
> read was on the WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts,
> such as a
> dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
> unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
> hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
> The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent
> in the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of
> initialization vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a
> rather small home network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends
> 1500 byte packets at 11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after
> 1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 = ~18000 seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time
> increase or decrease using wireless with Roger's or does it all depend
> on how much traffic my machines are sending? What measures have others
> here taken to secure their wireless networks if any of you have them
> and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info that
> you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
>
> thanks
> --
> Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
> GPG Fingerprint
> C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to
  learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for
  their apparent disinclination to do so.
    -- Douglas Adams, "Last Chance to See"
 ********************************************************************/



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From wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 18:30:21 2003
From: wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (WK)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:30:21 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com>



Gardner Bell wrote:

...
> What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if any of
> you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info
> that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
> 

I have a SMC wireless router which I use it as access point.

- I enabled the 128bit wep and filter client by MAC.
- At my linux firewall, I blocks any unknown internal addresses
- At my linux firewall, I blocks all outgoing traffic to the internal 
network as well as internet except DHCP and PPTP (vpn).

In order to connect a wireless client to my network, the following are 
needed:

- Add a reserve host to dhcp server
- Unblock the reserve host ip at the firewall
- Create an account on the the pptp server

I'm not sure what else I can do since this is only a home network anyway.

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 18:39:27 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:39:27 -0400
Subject: Asus A7N8X vs. Abit NF7-S Motherboard
In-Reply-To: <40563.199.64.0.253.1064943546.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <40563.199.64.0.253.1064943546.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <20030930183927.GM13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 01:39:06PM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> Does anyone have experience or comments with these motherboards?  I'd like
> to finally set up my media centre PC, and I'm thinking of using one of
> these since they offer built-in S/PDIF.  They both use the nForce2
> chipset, and I think they both have the RealTek ALC650 audio chipset.  Has
> anyone managed to get audio working on one of these?  All comments are
> appreciated.
> Thanks in advance,

Make sure you check out before hand, if they can encode the stuff your
PC plays as AC3 on the spdif, or if they send seperate channels (which
is accepted by digital computer speakers but often not home theater
receivers).  Passing the dvd sound directly is not a problem, just the
sound created by the machine (just in case you were hoping for soround
sound from quake/doom/unreal).  I believe the nvidia sound system can,
although I have no idea why there is even a need for other chips when
using the nvidia sound.  I personally much prefer Asus over Abit, having
never had a problem with Asus myself, but have had a few problems with
some Abit boards.

Lennart Sorensen
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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 18:44:18 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:44:18 -0400
Subject: Asus A7N8X vs. Abit NF7-S Motherboard
In-Reply-To: <20030930183927.GM13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <40563.199.64.0.253.1064943546.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <20030930183927.GM13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F79CF02.2010503@rogers.com>


i've tested the micro-atx version of the ASUS board- i've opted for the 
shuttle MN31N-- dual VGA on board. You'll have to fiddle around to get 
it to work.. but play back is pretty good


Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 01:39:06PM -0400, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> 
>>Does anyone have experience or comments with these motherboards?  I'd like
>>to finally set up my media centre PC, and I'm thinking of using one of
>>these since they offer built-in S/PDIF.  They both use the nForce2
>>chipset, and I think they both have the RealTek ALC650 audio chipset.  Has
>>anyone managed to get audio working on one of these?  All comments are
>>appreciated.
>>Thanks in advance,
> 
> 
> Make sure you check out before hand, if they can encode the stuff your
> PC plays as AC3 on the spdif, or if they send seperate channels (which
> is accepted by digital computer speakers but often not home theater
> receivers).  Passing the dvd sound directly is not a problem, just the
> sound created by the machine (just in case you were hoping for soround
> sound from quake/doom/unreal).  I believe the nvidia sound system can,
> although I have no idea why there is even a need for other chips when
> using the nvidia sound.  I personally much prefer Asus over Abit, having
> never had a problem with Asus myself, but have had a few problems with
> some Abit boards.
> 
> Lennart Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 



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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:01:07 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:01:07 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <3F79CBBD.4000402-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com>
Message-ID: <200309301501.07276.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 2:30 pm, WK wrote:
> Gardner Bell wrote:
>
> ...
>
> > What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if
> > any of you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any
> > other info that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
>
> I have a SMC wireless router which I use it as access point.
>
> - I enabled the 128bit wep and filter client by MAC.
> - At my linux firewall, I blocks any unknown internal addresses
> - At my linux firewall, I blocks all outgoing traffic to the internal
> network as well as internet except DHCP and PPTP (vpn).
>
> In order to connect a wireless client to my network, the following are
> needed:
>
> - Add a reserve host to dhcp server
> - Unblock the reserve host ip at the firewall
> - Create an account on the the pptp server

Or they could just spoof your card's mac address.

Charly Baker
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:06:44 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:06:44 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <3F79CBBD.4000402-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com>
Message-ID: <1064948804.20474.4.camel@linux.local>

I use IPCop 1.3.0 and connect the access point with WEP on 128 bit
though the DMZ ( Orange ) interface.

Works great, some limitations due to firewalling rules, but this can be
custon tailored to your application.

It doesn't take long to crack wep anymore, so any extra precautions are
a must.


On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 14:30, WK wrote:
> Gardner Bell wrote:
> 
> ...
> > What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if any of
> > you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info
> > that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
> > 
> 
> I have a SMC wireless router which I use it as access point.
> 
> - I enabled the 128bit wep and filter client by MAC.
> - At my linux firewall, I blocks any unknown internal addresses
> - At my linux firewall, I blocks all outgoing traffic to the internal 
> network as well as internet except DHCP and PPTP (vpn).
> 
> In order to connect a wireless client to my network, the following are 
> needed:
> 
> - Add a reserve host to dhcp server
> - Unblock the reserve host ip at the firewall
> - Create an account on the the pptp server
> 
> I'm not sure what else I can do since this is only a home network anyway.
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From kenw-9hyeSw/pbO7e9xe1eoZjHA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:12:45 2003
From: kenw-9hyeSw/pbO7e9xe1eoZjHA at public.gmane.org (Ken Wolstencroft)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:12:45 +0100
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com> <200309301501.07276.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
Message-ID: <003b01c38786$d49974e0$1a00a8c0@ken>

The better solution is to use 802.1x security, but you will need a radius
server.

The new WPA standard will solve alot of security issues by using TKIP
instead of WEP. It also allows shared key authentication between Access
Point and station.

We have launched a new wifi service in the UK to address these issues for
end users. We operate authentication and management systems, so that home or
office users have access to the the higher security methods without the
expense of owning the infrastructure themselves (www.myzones.com).

All the best,
Ken

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Charly Baker" <cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Wireless network (WEP security)


> On Tuesday 30 September 2003 2:30 pm, WK wrote:
> > Gardner Bell wrote:
> >
> > ...
> >
> > > What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks
if
> > > any of you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?
Any
> > > other info that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
> >
> > I have a SMC wireless router which I use it as access point.
> >
> > - I enabled the 128bit wep and filter client by MAC.
> > - At my linux firewall, I blocks any unknown internal addresses
> > - At my linux firewall, I blocks all outgoing traffic to the internal
> > network as well as internet except DHCP and PPTP (vpn).
> >
> > In order to connect a wireless client to my network, the following are
> > needed:
> >
> > - Add a reserve host to dhcp server
> > - Unblock the reserve host ip at the firewall
> > - Create an account on the the pptp server
>
> Or they could just spoof your card's mac address.
>
> Charly Baker
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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---
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From Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:23:28 2003
From: Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:23:28 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <blcl9t$222$1@sea.gmane.org>

WEP is only useful for preventing casual access to your network.  It's not
real security.

The solution is the 802.1x protocol, but this is not finalized, so there is
an interim standard called WPA.  These protocols will eventually use the AES
algorithm, but it is too computational expensive at the moment.  You can
only use it if the algorithm is built into the firmware.  As another interim
solution people are using the TKIP algorithm, which is similar to WEP.

Now, with that many 'interims' and an algorithm similar to WEP you might
think that WPA with TKIP is no good, but that is not the case.  It is vastly
better than WEP and it provides true security at this time.

This solution can be implemented independently of the driver.  You could buy
any wireless adapter, using any of the 802.11 standards and then get
software that implements WPA.  But it's not totallly independent - you need
to make sure that the WPA software you get is compatible with the
chipset/driver you are using.

The hard part is going to be finding a WPA solution for Linux.

One other thing.  If you want to use Linux as your AP you need an
'authenticator' and if you want to use it as a client then you need a
'supplicant'.  Unless you are in a corporate environment you will want to
use WPA in 'pre-shared key' mode.

Or, you could implement security at a higher level in your network.

Tom.

"Gardner Bell" <gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote in
message
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeCmdvSpIQae8A at public.gmane.org
> I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after many
> articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I read was
on the
> WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts, such as a
> dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
> unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
> hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
> The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent in
> the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of
initialization
> vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a rather small home
> network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends 1500 byte packets at
> 11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after 1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 = ~18000
> seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time increase or decrease using wireless
with
> Roger's or does it all depend on how much traffic my machines are sending?
> What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if
any of
> you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other
info
> that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
>
> thanks
>  --
> Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
> GPG Fingerprint
> C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>



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From offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:32:40 2003
From: offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:32:40 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: .sxw files now .zip
In-Reply-To: <200309301214.20911.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309301214.20911.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20030930193240.97986.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com>

--- Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 September 2003 11:57, Daniel Armstrong
> wrote:
> 
> > I even tried modifying file treatment so that the
> > default application for opening zip files would be
> > OpenOffice Writer 1.1, but a left-click on the
> .sxw
> > icon still only breaks down the file into its xml
> > components. Only by manually opening the file does
> it
> > display properly in OpenOffice.
> >
> > My question is... How do I restore KDE settings to
> see
> > .sxw as OpenOffice files?
> 
> When I right-click on a .sxw file and select "edit
> file type" I get the 
> following:
> 
> - filename patterns, *.sxw ... add that if you don't
> see it, probably remove
>   other things
> - Description, OpenOffice.org 1.0 Text Document
> - Application Preference Order, OOO 1.1.0 Math, OOO
> 1.1.0 Writer, OO Writer
> 
> Clearly my application preference order doesn't make
> a lot of sense but it 
> works.  Make sure you have an application pointing
> to /usr/bin/oowriter (or 
> whatever your binary is for that).

I have edited the file prefix to .sxw and added
'/usr/bin/oowriter' as the application to use, but KDE
continues to see these OpenOffice Writer .sxw files as
type 'application/x-zip'?!

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:40:02 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:40:02 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.r
 ogers.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.r
 ogers.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20030930153839.0a6501e0@localhost>

At 01:44 PM 30/09/2003 -0400, Gardner Bell wrote:
>I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after many
>articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I read was 
>on the
>WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts, such as a
>dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
>unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
>hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
>The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent in
>the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of initialization
>vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a rather small home
>network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends 1500 byte packets at
>11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after 1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 = ~18000
>seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time increase or decrease using wireless with
>Roger's or does it all depend on how much traffic my machines are sending?
>What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if 
>any of
>you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info
>that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.

I have not gone wireless yet for security reasons. FreeS/WAN seems to be a 
good option for securing 802.11x networks.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:34:47 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:34:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300937100.29424-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <3F7913EB.2050703@rogers.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300937100.29424@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <12350.216.138.194.32.1064950487.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I've killed off icmp echo requests long ago actually, I just find it
> more a nuisance that these people persist daily and nightly to find an
> opening in my firewall.

A lot of that junk is generated by worms seeking out new customers, or
poorly configured (windoh$) machines. You should see a fair amount of
action on ports 113, 137, 445, 1361, 1443, and 53 udp. There is nothing to
do to stop all that from hitting your machine at the firewall, as it comes
via routing rather than broadcast.

> And as Mr Sonne suggested I'd much rather have
> someone scan my entire network with -PO before pinging me because it
> seems to be slowing my network down at times to a complete crawl with
> them occurring as often as they do. Thanks for your replies

Seeing as how the whole purpose of the logs is to be able to backtrack
over events, I wouldn't want to stop logging these attempts. You might log
them somewhere else though. Send kernel logging to a new log file, maybe
/var/log/kern? You could also send it to the console, but then the data
could easily be lost forever.

Pings might slow down your network if the packet sizes are messed up,
someone sending packets sized over the MTUs you use on your network
(default is generally 1500).

Fragmentation support in your firewall also carries some resource load
restraints, as does stateful packet filtering, so that might slow down
your firewall, but it shouldn't bring the entire INT_LAN to a crawl.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:00:49 2003
From: wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (WK)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:00:49 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <200309301501.07276.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com> <200309301501.07276.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
Message-ID: <3F79E0F1.4020809@halfmind.com>



Charly Baker wrote:

>>
>>I have a SMC wireless router which I use it as access point.
>>
>>- I enabled the 128bit wep and filter client by MAC.
>>- At my linux firewall, I blocks any unknown internal addresses
>>- At my linux firewall, I blocks all outgoing traffic to the internal
>>network as well as internet except DHCP and PPTP (vpn).
>>
>>In order to connect a wireless client to my network, the following are
>>needed:
>>
>>- Add a reserve host to dhcp server
>>- Unblock the reserve host ip at the firewall
>>- Create an account on the the pptp server
> 
> 
> Or they could just spoof your card's mac address.
> 
> Charly Baker

True.  I'm not saying that my network is 100% secured against hacker, 
I'm just trying my best to make it more difficult.

It needs the WEP and MAC address in order to obtain a valid ip address. 
  To access the local network and internet, a set of username/password 
to my pptp is still needed.



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From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:00:48 2003
From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 16:00:48 -0400
Subject: Asus A7N8X vs. Abit NF7-S Motherboard
In-Reply-To: <40563.199.64.0.253.1064943546.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <40563.199.64.0.253.1064943546.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <1064952048.3840.48.camel@theconstruct.mineallmeyn.net>

On Tue, 2003-09-30 at 13:39, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> Does anyone have experience or comments with these motherboards?  I'd like
> to finally set up my media centre PC, and I'm thinking of using one of
> these since they offer built-in S/PDIF.  They both use the nForce2
> chipset, and I think they both have the RealTek ALC650 audio chipset.  Has
> anyone managed to get audio working on one of these?  All comments are
> appreciated.
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Kareem

No worries on the A7N8X-DX (which is different sound than the non DX),
and a few other variants of the nForce2 chipset on RH9.  All needed the
nForce drivers from nVidia, and I had to build the rpm from the src rpm
provided by nvidia in all cases (or at least almost all, can't
remember).

Cheers,
Oliver

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:02:29 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:02:29 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour-uX10M8IjeSmR85p3v6+8aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302257040.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Steve Barbour wrote:

> I think this is a legal issue of protecting privacy as the companies
> themselves would be liable for personal information that someone using these
> tools could pass on or post about someone else without having their written
> consent. It has to do with new privacy legislation such as the Canadian
> PIPEDA laws. It isn't about charging for the use of the products this time!

What legal issue ? Whose privacy ? I respect your opinion, but by this
logic talking privately on the corridor of a downtown mall during lunch
break would make the mall owners responsible for the content of the
discussion, and mandate them to record it so they can cover themselves in
case something happens as a result of that discussion. The next step would
be the interdiction of congregation, which is not unknown under martial
rule. You would like to impose both of these things, without martial
law ? Come on.

Peter
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 19:53:09 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:53:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Using EXT3 to install Win32 software
In-Reply-To: <001b01c38755$05fe55f0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <001b01c38755$05fe55f0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <12456.216.138.194.32.1064951589.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I network mapped drive Z:  which is a samba 2.28a share of a large EXT3
> partition.
> I would like to install some Win32 software, say Office2002 onto drive
> Z..

Good luck. A lot of the files that the M$ apps need to run won't install.
You're trying to replace backoffice with samba2. It won't work, there is
no active directory support in that version. Try samba3 (still in beta?)

http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/networking/features/article.php/2246911

Now that you brought it up though, you have to let the rest of us know how
it works out for you and what problems you run into with it.  :)

> Will this work?
> Is there more overhead with Samba and inodes and EXT3?

No. there's less. Your network will be happier for it.

> Dont get upset cause im using some Win32 stuff,  im just trying new
> things with Linux. (RH9)

The whole point to the exercise it to be able to do what you want with
your systems. Whether it's windoh$ or linux or BSD, sun, novell or
whatever it doesn't matter as long as it works for you. Mixed networks are
common, but over time be prepared to rethink about what a network is and
the client/server vs. peer-to-peer models.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From kenw-9hyeSw/pbO7e9xe1eoZjHA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:10:13 2003
From: kenw-9hyeSw/pbO7e9xe1eoZjHA at public.gmane.org (Ken Wolstencroft)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:10:13 +0100
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <blcl9t$222$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <006601c3878e$db927460$1a00a8c0@ken>

802.1x is ratified in June 2001, you are think about 802.11i. WPA is an
interim solution taking a broad view what is likely to ratified in 802.11i.

802.1x is a key component in both WPA and 802.11i.

All the best,
Ken


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom" <Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 8:23 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: Re: Wireless network (WEP security)


> WEP is only useful for preventing casual access to your network.  It's not
> real security.
>
> The solution is the 802.1x protocol, but this is not finalized, so there
is
> an interim standard called WPA.  These protocols will eventually use the
AES
> algorithm, but it is too computational expensive at the moment.  You can
> only use it if the algorithm is built into the firmware.  As another
interim
> solution people are using the TKIP algorithm, which is similar to WEP.
>
> Now, with that many 'interims' and an algorithm similar to WEP you might
> think that WPA with TKIP is no good, but that is not the case.  It is
vastly
> better than WEP and it provides true security at this time.
>
> This solution can be implemented independently of the driver.  You could
buy
> any wireless adapter, using any of the 802.11 standards and then get
> software that implements WPA.  But it's not totallly independent - you
need
> to make sure that the WPA software you get is compatible with the
> chipset/driver you are using.
>
> The hard part is going to be finding a WPA solution for Linux.
>
> One other thing.  If you want to use Linux as your AP you need an
> 'authenticator' and if you want to use it as a client then you need a
> 'supplicant'.  Unless you are in a corporate environment you will want to
> use WPA in 'pre-shared key' mode.
>
> Or, you could implement security at a higher level in your network.
>
> Tom.
>
> "Gardner Bell" <gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote in
> message
>
news:Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeCmdvSpIQae8A at public.gmane.org
> > I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after many
> > articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I read was
> on the
> > WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts, such as a
> > dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
> > unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
> > hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
> > The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent
in
> > the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of
> initialization
> > vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a rather small
home
> > network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends 1500 byte packets
at
> > 11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after 1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 =
~18000
> > seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time increase or decrease using wireless
> with
> > Roger's or does it all depend on how much traffic my machines are
sending?
> > What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks
if
> any of
> > you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other
> info
> > that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
> >
> > thanks
> >  --
> > Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
> > GPG Fingerprint
> > C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:11:41 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:11:41 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <3F79E0F1.4020809-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com> <200309301501.07276.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <3F79E0F1.4020809@halfmind.com>
Message-ID: <20030930201141.GA838@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 04:00:49PM -0400, WK wrote:
> >>I have a SMC wireless router which I use it as access point.
> >>
> >>- I enabled the 128bit wep and filter client by MAC.
> >>- At my linux firewall, I blocks any unknown internal addresses
> >>- At my linux firewall, I blocks all outgoing traffic to the internal
> >>network as well as internet except DHCP and PPTP (vpn).
> >>
> >>In order to connect a wireless client to my network, the following are
> >>needed:
> >>
> >>- Add a reserve host to dhcp server
> >>- Unblock the reserve host ip at the firewall
> >>- Create an account on the the pptp server
> >
> >
> >Or they could just spoof your card's mac address.
> >
> >Charly Baker
> 
> True.  I'm not saying that my network is 100% secured against hacker, 

Mine is 100% secure against anyone and everyone.  I can't even break-in,
that is, until I plug it into wall socket.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:07:21 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gardner Bell)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:07:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <12350.216.138.194.32.1064950487.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>   
     <3F7913EB.2050703@rogers.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300937100.29424@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <12350.216.138.194.32.1064950487.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301602300.1634@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

How difucult would it be to redirect my logs to my windows machine so I can copy
them to a floppy and then review them from it? It doesn't sound too difficult,
just something I've personally never done before.  Last nite is where I noticed
my network come to almost a standstill when trying to open up the simplest of
pages such as google.com, any idea why this would have happened, maybe it was
peak time for Roger's but I've never really noticed this in the past.

-- 
Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
GPG Fingerprint
C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > I've killed off icmp echo requests long ago actually, I just find it
> > more a nuisance that these people persist daily and nightly to find an
> > opening in my firewall.
>
> A lot of that junk is generated by worms seeking out new customers, or
> poorly configured (windoh$) machines. You should see a fair amount of
> action on ports 113, 137, 445, 1361, 1443, and 53 udp. There is nothing to
> do to stop all that from hitting your machine at the firewall, as it comes
> via routing rather than broadcast.
>
> > And as Mr Sonne suggested I'd much rather have
> > someone scan my entire network with -PO before pinging me because it
> > seems to be slowing my network down at times to a complete crawl with
> > them occurring as often as they do. Thanks for your replies
>
> Seeing as how the whole purpose of the logs is to be able to backtrack
> over events, I wouldn't want to stop logging these attempts. You might log
> them somewhere else though. Send kernel logging to a new log file, maybe
> /var/log/kern? You could also send it to the console, but then the data
> could easily be lost forever.
>
> Pings might slow down your network if the packet sizes are messed up,
> someone sending packets sized over the MTUs you use on your network
> (default is generally 1500).
>
> Fragmentation support in your firewall also carries some resource load
> restraints, as does stateful packet filtering, so that might slow down
> your firewall, but it shouldn't bring the entire INT_LAN to a crawl.
>
>
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:23:51 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:23:51 -0400
Subject: .sxw files now .zip
In-Reply-To: <20030930193240.97986.qmail-dckhfzsTUGyA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930193240.97986.qmail@web40805.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200309301623.52436.marc@lijour.net>

Le 30 Septembre 2003 15:32, Daniel Armstrong a ?crit :
> --- Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > On Tuesday 30 September 2003 11:57, Daniel Armstrong
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I even tried modifying file treatment so that the
> > > default application for opening zip files would be
> > > OpenOffice Writer 1.1, but a left-click on the
> >
> > .sxw
> >
> > > icon still only breaks down the file into its xml
> > > components. Only by manually opening the file does
> >
> > it
> >
> > > display properly in OpenOffice.
> > >
> > > My question is... How do I restore KDE settings to
> >
> > see
> >
> > > .sxw as OpenOffice files?
> >
> > When I right-click on a .sxw file and select "edit
> > file type" I get the
> > following:
> >
> > - filename patterns, *.sxw ... add that if you don't
> > see it, probably remove
> >   other things
> > - Description, OpenOffice.org 1.0 Text Document
> > - Application Preference Order, OOO 1.1.0 Math, OOO
> > 1.1.0 Writer, OO Writer
> >
> > Clearly my application preference order doesn't make
> > a lot of sense but it
> > works.  Make sure you have an application pointing
> > to /usr/bin/oowriter (or
> > whatever your binary is for that).
>
> I have edited the file prefix to .sxw and added
> '/usr/bin/oowriter' as the application to use, but KDE
> continues to see these OpenOffice Writer .sxw files as
> type 'application/x-zip'?!

You need to have these types in application (under know types):
vnd.sun.xml.calc
vnd.sun.xml.draw
vnd.sun.xml.impress
vnd.sun.xml.math
vnd.sun.xml.writer
vnd.sun.xml.writer.global

For example, if you select vnd.sun.xml.writer, you must have on the right side 
(General tab):
Filename pattern: *.sxw
App preference order: StarOffice writer (I have staroffice)
Other tab: use settings for apps group (rest is grey)

It should be very similar for OOo.

Of course another solution is to re-install. But before you delete, think that 
the installer detects a previous installation and offers to repair it... That 
could be a nice way of recovering your file associations.

Good Luck!

Marc

>
> __________________________________
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> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:19:07 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:19:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301602300.1634-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <3F7913EB.2050703@rogers.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300937100.29424@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <12350.216.138.194.32.1064950487.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301602300.1634@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <12566.216.138.194.32.1064953147.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> How difucult would it be to redirect my logs to my windows machine so I
> can copy them to a floppy and then review them from it? It doesn't sound
> too difficult, just something I've personally never done before.

I'm not sure it's doable. I know that you can set syslog to serve to
another *nix server, but you need a receiver on the other end of the data
stream. I dunno if there's such a beast for windoh$.

> Last nite is where I noticed my network come to almost a standstill when
> trying to open up the simplest of pages such as google.com, any idea why
> this would have happened, maybe it was peak time for Roger's but I've
> never really noticed this in the past.

If someone sharing your trunk was doing something that requires massive
bandwidth without setting QoS, they could be hogging the pipe.

Run snort outside your firewall to see what's happening. It requires your
NET_IFACE be in promiscious mode, so don't use a precious machine for it.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:43:34 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Gardner Bell)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:43:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <12566.216.138.194.32.1064953147.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>   
     <3F7913EB.2050703@rogers.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300937100.29424@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>    
    <12350.216.138.194.32.1064950487.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301602300.1634@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <12566.216.138.194.32.1064953147.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301638570.1658@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>

Well I think I can set syslog to send to my gentoo server from my slackware but
I will see over the next few nights how possible that is to do.  As for another
machine hogging the 'pipe' I don't see that as a possible resolution because I
have had every machine offline but my own workstation taking to the outside
world.  And the only thing I can recall myself doing is checking email and
hanging out on irc talking to some friends.

-- 
Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
GPG Fingerprint
C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > How difucult would it be to redirect my logs to my windows machine so I
> > can copy them to a floppy and then review them from it? It doesn't sound
> > too difficult, just something I've personally never done before.
>
> I'm not sure it's doable. I know that you can set syslog to serve to
> another *nix server, but you need a receiver on the other end of the data
> stream. I dunno if there's such a beast for windoh$.
>
> > Last nite is where I noticed my network come to almost a standstill when
> > trying to open up the simplest of pages such as google.com, any idea why
> > this would have happened, maybe it was peak time for Roger's but I've
> > never really noticed this in the past.
>
> If someone sharing your trunk was doing something that requires massive
> bandwidth without setting QoS, they could be hogging the pipe.
>
> Run snort outside your firewall to see what's happening. It requires your
> NET_IFACE be in promiscious mode, so don't use a precious machine for it.
>
>
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:36:30 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:36:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302257040.1589-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302257040.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <12590.216.138.194.32.1064954190.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> What legal issue ? Whose privacy ? I respect your opinion, but by this
> logic talking privately on the corridor of a downtown mall during lunch
> break would make the mall owners responsible for the content of the
> discussion, and mandate them to record it so they can cover themselves
> in case something happens as a result of that discussion. The next step
> would be the interdiction of congregation, which is not unknown under
> martial rule. You would like to impose both of these things, without
> martial law ? Come on.

The FTC (?) stateside just made it a law to secure any personal customer
or client data stored on publically accessible servers. This came down on
sept 29, so it might be related somehow.



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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 20:39:51 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 16:39:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Pings
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301638570.1658-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309291002310.15742@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <10959.216.138.194.32.1064847459.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <3F7913EB.2050703@rogers.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309300937100.29424@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <12350.216.138.194.32.1064950487.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301602300.1634@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
        <12566.216.138.194.32.1064953147.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301638570.1658@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <12594.216.138.194.32.1064954391.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Well I think I can set syslog to send to my gentoo server from my
> slackware but I will see over the next few nights how possible that is
> to do.  As for another machine hogging the 'pipe' I don't see that as a
> possible resolution because I have had every machine offline but my own
> workstation taking to the outside world.  And the only thing I can
> recall myself doing is checking email and hanging out on irc talking to
> some friends.

I was referring to a machine outside your connection. You share a trunk
with others, and they could be doing the hogging is what I was saying.



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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 21:04:40 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:04:40 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <12590.216.138.194.32.1064954190.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302257040.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <12590.216.138.194.32.1064954190.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010002490.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
> > What legal issue ? Whose privacy ? I respect your opinion, but by this
> > logic talking privately on the corridor of a downtown mall during lunch
> > break would make the mall owners responsible for the content of the
> > discussion, and mandate them to record it so they can cover themselves
> > in case something happens as a result of that discussion. The next step
> > would be the interdiction of congregation, which is not unknown under
> > martial rule. You would like to impose both of these things, without
> > martial law ? Come on.
>
> The FTC (?) stateside just made it a law to secure any personal customer
> or client data stored on publically accessible servers. This came down on
> sept 29, so it might be related somehow.

Now you lost me. What is the sense of the word 'secure' and what is a
'publically accessible server' in the sense used above ? I am not
nitpicking, I am too stunned to react yet. Any pointers on what this
FTC action is/called ?

tia,

Peter
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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 21:15:37 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:15:37 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427-bi+AKbBUZKarHMlHb5NnZytyHCCPSaTIbJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F79F279.1070209@codemonkeys.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 30/09/2003 13:44, Gardner Bell wrote:

| I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after many
| articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I read was on the
| WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts, such as a
| dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
| unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
| hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
| The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent in
| the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of initialization
| vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a rather small home
| network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends 1500 byte packets at
| 11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after 1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 = ~18000
| seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time increase or decrease using wireless with
| Roger's or does it all depend on how much traffic my machines are sending?
| What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if any of
| you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info
| that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.

As people already pointed out, there's a slew of "solutions"; I prefer to call
them "workarounds".  As someone who's had a wireless network for a very long
time now (I was one of the co-founders of the now-defunct Toronto Wireless
Community Network), I can offer you the following advice: treat your wireless
network as the most hostile section of the Internet.

Don't rely on WEP by any means, in fact I'd suggest you turn it off because it
does nothing 'cept reducing throughput and causing silly disconnects.  Your
real protection comes higher up on the TCP stack, as VPN, SSL, or SSH tunnel.

The moment you introduce wireless access on your network, all your computers
are exposed, which means don't rely on your Internet firewall, every machine
needs to firewall itself (you can still keep your Internet firewall as an
outer perimeter, but don't fall into false sense of security).

If you're unable or unwilling to expend the effort to protect each individual
machine on the network that is to be extended through wireless means, I
suggest you don't use wireless at all.
- --
Emir.

"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election
~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery,
~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices."             -- Andrew Orlowski
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 21:21:10 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:21:10 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010002490.1589-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302257040.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <12590.216.138.194.32.1064954190.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010002490.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010017400.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
> >
> > > What legal issue ? Whose privacy ? I respect your opinion, but by this
> > > logic talking privately on the corridor of a downtown mall during lunch
> > > break would make the mall owners responsible for the content of the
> > > discussion, and mandate them to record it so they can cover themselves
> > > in case something happens as a result of that discussion. The next step
> > > would be the interdiction of congregation, which is not unknown under
> > > martial rule. You would like to impose both of these things, without
> > > martial law ? Come on.
> >
> > The FTC (?) stateside just made it a law to secure any personal customer
> > or client data stored on publically accessible servers. This came down on
> > sept 29, so it might be related somehow.
>
> Now you lost me. What is the sense of the word 'secure' and what is a
> 'publically accessible server' in the sense used above ? I am not
> nitpicking, I am too stunned to react yet. Any pointers on what this
> FTC action is/called ?

Wait, I think I understand. The FTC (or FCC ?) want any personal (as in
nominally referring to or about a person) data secured (encrypted or
otherwise removed from the reach of possible fraudulent use). Is this more
or less the idea ? And now everyone is puzzling over whether IM messages
in transit over a server are personal data and how this FUD can be best
used against open source/open internet groups and advocates ?

Peter
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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 21:36:41 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:36:41 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <3F79F279.1070209-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F79F279.1070209@codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <20030930213641.GA21288@anarchy.ca>

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 05:15:37PM -0400, Emir wrote:
> Don't rely on WEP by any means, in fact I'd suggest you turn it off because 
> it
> does nothing 'cept reducing throughput and causing silly disconnects.  Your
> real protection comes higher up on the TCP stack, as VPN, SSL, or SSH 
> tunnel.
> 
> The moment you introduce wireless access on your network, all your computers
> are exposed, which means don't rely on your Internet firewall, every machine
> needs to firewall itself (you can still keep your Internet firewall as an
> outer perimeter, but don't fall into false sense of security).

You might even want to drop another interface into your firewall and run
your wireless network off that. Then you can easily filter and monitor the
wireless seperately.

Still, as Emir notes, you need to protect each host seperately as they
become exposed through the wireless network. There's no excuse for not
keeping hosts patched and uptodate just because they're behind NAT now :P.

Or don't use wireless at all. What's wrong with cables?

-cgm.
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 21:45:10 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 17:45:10 -0400
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
Message-ID: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca>


I get one of these a week, all ostensibly different. Any bets that there is
a script somewhere that generates these things atomatically? Has anyone ever
amused themselves by comparing them?

Peter

----- Forwarded message from "MR.WANG QIN" <wangqin2000-fE4/JEjjHa7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> -----

From: "MR.WANG QIN" <wangqin2000-fE4/JEjjHa7QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: wangqin1000-DVMQ0Vekzmh0ubjbjo6WXg at public.gmane.org
To: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:44:10 -0700
Subject: 
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6900 DM
X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by eccles.ee.ryerson.ca id h8UKhwBV046788

FROM THE DESK OF:

MR.WANG QIN
HANG SENG BANK LTD.
DES VOEUX RD.BRANCH
CENTRAL HONG KONG
HONG KONG.


Dear Friend,


I am MR.WANG QIN, credit officer of Hang Seng Bank Ltd; I have an
urgent and very confidential business proposition for you.

On June 6, 1998, a British Oil consultant/ contractor with the
Chinese Solid Minerals Corporation, Mr. Smith Lawrence made a
numbered time (Fixed) Deposit for twelve calendar months, valued at US$28,000,000.00 (Twenty-eight Million Dollars only) in my branch. Upon maturity, I sent a routine notification to his forwarding address but got no reply. After a month, we sent a reminder and finally we discovered from his contract employers, the Hong Kong Solid Minerals Corporation that Mr. Smith Lawrence died from an automobile accident. On further investigation, I found out that he died with out making a WILL,and all attempts to trace his next of kin was fruitless.

I therefore made further investigation and discovered that Mr.
Smith Lawrence did not declare any kin or relations in all his
official documents,including his Bank Deposit paperwork in my Bank. This sum of US$28,000,000.00 is still sitting in my Bank and the interest is being rolled over with the principal sum at the end of each year. No one will ever come forward to claim it. According to Laws of
Hong Kong,at the expiration of 5 (Five) years, the money will revert
to the ownership of the Hong Kong Government if nobody applies to claim
the fund.

Consequently, my proposal is that I will like you as a foreigner
to stand in as the next of Kin to Mr. Smith Lawrence so that the
fruits of this old man's labour will not get into the Hands of some corrupt government officials. This is simple, I will like you to provide Immediately your full names and address so th at the attorney will prepare the necessary Documents and affidavits that will put you in place as the next of kin. We shall employ the services of an attorney for drafting and notarization of the WILL and to obtain the Necessary documents and letter of probate/ administration in your favour for the transfer. A bank account in any part of the world that you will provide will then facilitate the transfer of this money to you as the beneficiary/next of kin.

The money will be paid into your account for us to share in the
ratio of 85% for me and 15% for you.

There is no risk at all as the attorney will do all the paperwork for this transaction and my position as the credit officer guarantees the successful execution of this transaction. If you are interested, please

reply immediately via my emailbox


Upon your response, I shall then provide you with more details
and relevant documents that will help you understand the transaction.

Please send me your confidential telephone and fax numbers for
easy communication.


You should observe utmost confidentiality, and rest assured
that this transaction would be Most profitable for both of us because I
shall require your assistance to invest my share in Your country.


Awaiting your urgent reply.

Thanks and regards.

MR.WANG QIN





----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 22:07:22 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:07:22 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <20030930174510.A28633-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Peter Hiscocks wrote:

>
> I get one of these a week, all ostensibly different. Any bets that there is
> a script somewhere that generates these things atomatically? Has anyone ever
> amused themselves by comparing them?

If it helps any, the ones I get usually come from Nigeria. I don't think
it's a script. Someone clever enough to write a script to do that would
probably have the required iq to find the spell checker button in front of
his nose and use it.

Peter
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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 22:17:53 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 30 Sep 2003 18:17:53 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <3F79F279.1070209-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
	<3F79F279.1070209@codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <ltoex1kjji.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Emir <emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org> writes:

> On 30/09/2003 13:44, Gardner Bell wrote:
> 
> | I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after many
> | articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I read was on the
> | WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts, such as a
> | dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
> | unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
> | hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
> | The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent in
> | the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of initialization
> | vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a rather small home
> | network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends 1500 byte packets at
> | 11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after 1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 = ~18000
> | seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time increase or decrease using wireless with
> | Roger's or does it all depend on how much traffic my machines are sending?
> | What measures have others here taken to secure their wireless networks if any of
> | you have them and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info
> | that you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
> 
> As people already pointed out, there's a slew of "solutions"; I prefer to call
> them "workarounds".  As someone who's had a wireless network for a very long
> time now (I was one of the co-founders of the now-defunct Toronto Wireless
> Community Network), I can offer you the following advice: treat your wireless
> network as the most hostile section of the Internet.
> 
> Don't rely on WEP by any means, in fact I'd suggest you turn it off because it
> does nothing 'cept reducing throughput and causing silly disconnects.  Your
> real protection comes higher up on the TCP stack, as VPN, SSL, or SSH tunnel.

I couldn't agree more.  A few people have mentioned FreeS/WAN which is a
great solution but can be daunting to setup.  A very nice alternative is:

    http://openvpn.sourceforge.net/

which runs on Linux and Windows.  On my home network, I have a LEAF firewall
with a wireless card.  All traffic from the WLAN is denied except OpenVPN to
my desktop.  When I bring the WLAN interface of my notebook up, I also bring
up OpenVPN.  And the OpenVPN startup script makes OpenVPN the default route.
With this approach, anyone can join my WLAN without too much difficulty but
they can't go anywhere unless they have an OpenVPN connection.

> The moment you introduce wireless access on your network, all your computers
> are exposed, which means don't rely on your Internet firewall, every machine
> needs to firewall itself (you can still keep your Internet firewall as an
> outer perimeter, but don't fall into false sense of security).

Another good point.  Many (most?) of the SOHO wireless access points on the
market claim to be firewalls too.  In practice, they firewall only the
Internet connection, giving wireless devices full access to your LAN.  Don't
be misled by features such as a MAC filter which deny Internet access to
devices with an unknown MAC address but still give them full access to the
LAN.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 22:27:49 2003
From: offshoredan-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Daniel Armstrong)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:27:49 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: .sxw files now .zip
In-Reply-To: <200309301623.52436.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200309301623.52436.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20030930222749.43735.qmail@web40807.mail.yahoo.com>

--- "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)"
<marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> You need to have these types in application (under
> know types):
> vnd.sun.xml.calc
> vnd.sun.xml.draw
> vnd.sun.xml.impress
> vnd.sun.xml.math
> vnd.sun.xml.writer
> vnd.sun.xml.writer.global

Hi Marc... Thanks so much! That was the problem - all
these entries had been erased from 'File Association'
inside the KDE Control Centre on the last upgrade. I
added the above entries with the proper prefixes, and
now everything is identified and opens correctly when
left-clicked.

Again, thank-you... Daniel

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 23:05:30 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:05:30 -0400
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20030930190530.19b22896.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 01:07:22 +0300 (IDDT)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> >
> > I get one of these a week, all ostensibly different. Any bets that
> > there is a script somewhere that generates these things
> > atomatically? Has anyone ever amused themselves by comparing them?
> 
> If it helps any, the ones I get usually come from Nigeria. I don't
> think it's a script. Someone clever enough to write a script to do
> that would probably have the required iq to find the spell checker
> button in front of his nose and use it.

There's a kewl Procmail recipe to deal with those, as well as
virus-laden mail, here:

http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nikant/nkvir/

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The price of success in philosophy is triviality.
		-- C. Glymour.
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From hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 23:21:46 2003
From: hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:21:46 -0400
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <20030930150913.88487.qmail-ugbtuMWqwv6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930150913.88487.qmail@web14503.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F7A100A.8090700@rogers.com>


>Yahoo has tried to block third party software from
>connecting to his network (although Gaim seems to have
>success connecting with the new protocol in the last
>version). 
>  
>
At least they are now offering a Linux version of Ymessenger (which I am 
running now until I am able to use GAIM  again.)



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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 23:44:21 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <20030930190530.19b22896.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20030930190530.19b22896.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301940070.11192@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> There's a kewl Procmail recipe to deal with those, as well as
> virus-laden mail, here:
>
> http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nikant/nkvir/

404

Not for me their isn't :(

I found a reference in the bugtraq archives to the same address too, so I
guess it isn't a typo.  Pity.

Rob

-- 
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Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 30 23:52:36 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:52:36 -0400
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301940070.11192-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20030930190530.19b22896.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301940070.11192@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20030930195236.05d316b9.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 19:44:21 -0400 (EDT)
Robert Brockway <robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> > There's a kewl Procmail recipe to deal with those, as well as
> > virus-laden mail, here:
> >
> > http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nikant/nkvir/
> 
> 404
> 
> Not for me their isn't :(
> 
> I found a reference in the bugtraq archives to the same address too,
> so I guess it isn't a typo.  Pity.

Maybe the spammers DoS'ed 'im! D'oh!

I can send you the recipe if you wish?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you are not for yourself, who will be for you?
If you are for yourself, then what are you?
If not now, when?
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Sep 22 23:50:02 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 19:50:02 -0400
Subject: Favourites to bookmark.htm
Message-ID: <3F6F8AA9.286DFD94@onlink.net>

Does anyone know how to save import Windows Favourites into linux
Netscape? A google search returned some peripherally--related material,
but nothing to go from Windows to linux. The other way around is easy,
as is from Netscape in Windows to Netscape in linux. Trying to simply
save the Favourites folder as a bookmark.htm renders it useless.

linuxquestions.org almost gave me a how-to, but, as other hits I got, it
assumes that the file is already in bookmark.htm format.

I work at different machines throughout the day and if I see a good site
I want to bookmark it - in IE or Netscape, and then update the bookmark
(or Favourites folder) in the other machine.

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 09:13:35 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:13:35 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
Message-ID: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net>

All of a sudden (yes, really, no configuration changes) my daughter
can't get into MSN with gaim. Error she gets is,

Tue Sep23 04:32:01 2003
surfer_gurl-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org was unable
to sign on: Protocol not supported.

She tried waiting a day, logging on/off,  logging in as me, two cold
boots and unloading/reloading the hotmail module (whatever it's
called).

Still gets the error.

A google search on key words 'hotmail gaim protocol not supported'
gave me nothing helpful.

She's been usig this trouble-free for months.

Any ideas?

Chris




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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 09:25:06 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 05:25:06 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162137500.22328@epoch.cs>
Message-ID: <3F701172.C6C51779@onlink.net>

Jing Su wrote:

> Did you upgrade to the .71 release?

[chris at p166 chris]$ rpm -q gaim
gaim-0.53-1

> I think it's a bug in that release.
> I was unable to get online with that one as well.  I'm running the .67 and
> I'm still online on gaim right now, no problem.

OK, I'll see if I have a newer version on a CD somewhere.

>
> Also, M$ has ominously threatened to kick off all non-MSN .NET clients,
> but as far as I can tell, hasn't made good on the threat yet.

Wow.

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Sep 23 11:39:20 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:39:20 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162137500.22328@epoch.cs>
Message-ID: <3F7030E8.239E070F@onlink.net>

Jing Su wrote:

> Did you upgrade to the .71 release?

I'm haviong trouble even upgrading to the .59* release - failed dependency:

[root at p166 chris]# rpm -U /mnt/cdrom/RedHat/RPMS/gaim*
error: failed dependencies:
 libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3)   is needed by gaim-0.59.1-2

So, I went to rpmfid.net and downloaded  glibc-2.3.2-98.i686.rpm and istalled
that
and now I get,

[root at p166 chris]# rpm -i /home/chris/glib*
error: failed dependencies:
 glibc-common = 2.3.2-98 is needed by glibc-2.3.2-98
 libgcc   is needed by glibc-2.3.2-98
 glibc > 2.2.5 conflicts with glibc-common-2.2.5-34

I don't mind chasing these dependencies oe-by-one if I thought at the end of
it I
]would still have a workable rh 7.3 (let alone a workable/updated gaim). But
is
this looking as if the newer gaims need a newer OS to run in?

> I think it's a bug in that release.

I don't know aboput a bug - she's been happily usig it for months - I see
someone else
has posted that 15-Oct is when MS pulled support for other protocols. that is
precisely
when gaim stopped working for my daughter.

>
> I was unable to get online with that one as well.  I'm running the .67 and
> I'm still online on gaim right now, no problem.

OK, .59 is the newest versio I have on a redhat (8.0) CD - I'm running 7.3 as

this is a older PC, but I have the 8.0 CDs if I need access to ewer apps.
But,
again, it looks as if I'll be endlessly chasing dependencies. I if I'm
actually
replacing older libraries because of conflicts, how may times does one do
that
before you have an older PC that is trying to ru ewer libraries (not to
mention
on the whatever the kernel is in 7.3)?

I would just upgrade to 8.0 but I know that release runs too sluggishly on
this
system - I had it on and had to remove it.

>
> Also, M$ has ominously threatened to kick off all non-MSN .NET clients,
> but as far as I can tell, hasn't made good on the threat yet.

Looks like they did just two days ago...

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 10:38:37 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 06:38:37 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net> <3F7030E8.239E070F@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310172115190.16779@epoch.cs> <200310180238.10618.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F71742D.A1A7C16A@onlink.net>

"Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" wrote:

> Looks like some pre-packaged binaries exist:
> < http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gaim/gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1.i586.rpm?download>

Thanks - doesn't look like my system will support it:

[root at p166 chris]# rpm -U /home/chris/gaim-0.71*.rpm
error: failed dependencies:
 gtk+2.0 >= 2.0.0 is needed by
 gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libnss3 is needed by gaim-0.7
1-1mdk9.1
 libaspell.so.15   is needed b
y gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libfontconfig.so.1   is neede
d by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libgcc_s.so.1   is needed by
gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libgtkspell.so.0   is needed
by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libpspell.so.15   is needed b
y gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libstdc++.so.5   is needed by
 gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libXft.so.2   is needed by ga
im-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libXrandr.so.2   is needed by
 gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 perl-base >= 2:5.8.0 is neede
d by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
 libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3)   is nee
ded by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 17:23:03 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 13:23:03 -0400
Subject: copying launchers to another account
Message-ID: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net>

Has anyooe tried copying launchers (GNOME icons that you create) to
other accounts? I'm finding it tedious recreating /sbin/ifup ppp0 and
other icons everytime I create an account.

Here is my /home/chris directory:

.                           .gconfd
netscapecontents.abw
..                          glibc-2.3.2-98.i686.rpm  nsmail
.AbiSuite                   .gnome                   portneedskills.wpd
.bash_history               .gnome-desktop           .qt
.bash_logout                .gnome_private           Readme
.bash_profile               g_req00.bk               .rhn-applet.conf
.bashrc                     g_req01.bk               Runme
b_ins00.bk                  g_req02.bk               .sawfish
b_ins01.bk                  g_req03.bk               .Trash
b_req00.bk                  .gtkrc                   Untitled1.CRASHED
b_req01.bk                  g_us00.bk                Untitled2.CRASHED
b_us00.bk                   g_us01.bk                .viminfo
.cddbslave                  .ICEauthority            .wpdata
.emacs                      .kde                     .wprc
.esd_auth                   ld.so-1.9.5-5.i386.rpm   .Xauthority
.gaim                       libc-5.3.12-31.i386.rpm  .xftcache
gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1.i586.rpm  .licq                    .xsession-errors
.gaimrc                     .nautilus
.gconf                      .netscape

If I don't get any ideas from the list I'll probably just try doing a
cp /home/chris/.gnome-desktop /home/otheraccount
and see if that does it.

I didn't find anything on google of any use.

Chris



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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Sep 24 20:44:55 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 16:44:55 -0400
Subject: could not allocate partition
Message-ID: <3F720247.E4AE6B18@onlink.net>

I am getting 'could not allocate partition' trying to partition in Disk
Druid while installing rh 7.3. No other explanation. It's reportig 10
GB free space - yet it gives me the error every time I try to create the
/home directory. The best it will accept is a / and a swap. But I want
to keep a seperate /home partition this time.

I could partition with pqmagict.exe as I have in the past, but I am
nervous about using third-party utilities - I suspect some of my past
partitioning woes have been due to pqmagict. Besides, the version of
pqmagict I have will only format the partition with ext2, not ext3.

Has anyone else run into this?

Chris

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