From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 00:22:03 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:22:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010002490.1589-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302257040.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
        <12590.216.138.194.32.1064954190.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010002490.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <13448.216.138.194.32.1064967723.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Now you lost me. What is the sense of the word 'secure' and what is a
> 'publically accessible server' in the sense used above ? I am not
> nitpicking, I am too stunned to react yet. Any pointers on what this FTC
> action is/called ?

See the article here:
http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/security/news/article.php/3084881


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 00:44:46 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 20:44:46 -0400
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <200309302044.46528.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 30 September 2003 18:07, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> If it helps any, the ones I get usually come from Nigeria. I don't think
> it's a script. Someone clever enough to write a script to do that would
> probably have the required iq to find the spell checker button in front of
> his nose and use it.

I believe the spelling mistakes are to defeat simple anti-spam tools.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 01:44:25 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:44:25 -0400
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I was checking my laptop this morning when lo and behold a wireless access point appeared. Being the curious person that I am I tried to sign onto the network named default only to find a very insecure wireless connection and a router with no admin password.

Using sneaker net and my laptop I think I now know who the neighbour is that offering his Internet connection to the world.

What I am wondering is if anyone on the list knows of a better way to pinpoint the location of a wireless access point.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 02:06:12 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:06:12 -0400
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <200309302044.46528.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <200309302044.46528.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F7A3694.9050701@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Tuesday 30 September 2003 18:07, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> 
>>If it helps any, the ones I get usually come from Nigeria. I don't think
>>it's a script. Someone clever enough to write a script to do that would
>>probably have the required iq to find the spell checker button in front of
>>his nose and use it.
> 
> 
> I believe the spelling mistakes are to defeat simple anti-spam tools.
> 
Key phrases like "million dollars" and "absolutely no risk" must have no 
spelling mistakes :-). Spamassassin, for example, successfully uses 
these signatures to define spam.

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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 02:48:34 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 22:48:34 -0400
Subject: <OT> Test
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9279@lynchmail.lynch.msft>



Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com



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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 03:24:37 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:24:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php guru needed
Message-ID: <14264.216.138.194.32.1064978677.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


It's a commercial job, so I'm not expecting free help ($beer /$$). You'll
take a look at it and see the problem, but I'm either too close to it or I
messed up the code.

I need some help with a php mail() script that's been giving me some
grief. It's not sending the message and the redirect isn't working.

It's a contact page with html-side select fields for $recipient and
$priority, simple text input fields ($name, $email, $subject, & $message.
There is also $fileatt, with  $redirect to a thank you  page.

Best to contact me off-list by email. Forget the phone number in my .sig
file, I'm rarely at the office these days.

Thanx

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 03:49:33 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:49:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <20030930195236.05d316b9.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20030930190530.19b22896.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301940070.11192@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <20030930195236.05d316b9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302346580.11192@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> Maybe the spammers DoS'ed 'im! D'oh!

The host itself no longer exists:

zen:~$host -t ns aua.gr
aua.gr                  NS      noc.aua.gr
aua.gr                  NS      dimitra.aua.gr

zen:~$host agriroot.aua.gr
Nameserver not responding
agriroot.aua.gr A record not found, try again

> I can send you the recipe if you wish?

That'd be fabulous thankyou.  I emailed the author a few hours ago (found
his email address via google) but have't heard back yet.  It's probably
the middle of the night in Greece, oh wait, its the middle of the night
here :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 03:46:51 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:46:51 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:41:41 -0400
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:23:00 -0400
> Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > 
> > 
> >    I recently switched to Sylpheed from Netscape.  I tried out Balsa,
> >    but I could not get it to send email.
> 
> How were you sending, through your ISP's server, or postfix-to-ISP?

Joe,

   I sent the email through my ISP's server.  I used to use my local sendmail, but I started getting caught in spam filters.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 10:11:47 2003
From: hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (D. Hugh Redelmeier)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:11:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: peer or consumer? [was: Is this the new Y2K scam?]
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000-phKd+DpA3E7v+jA/tZBGeEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0309211422020.26952-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310010609401.30386-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----


| From: D. Hugh Redelmeier <hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>

| The internet is a community of peers.  Resist the pressure to make it
| a "market" with consumers and a priviledged producer class.
| 
| See this sad announcement: <http://fourmilab.ch/speakfree/eol/>

An even better reference from that site:
	<http://fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/>
Long, but well worth reading.

Hugh Redelmeier
hugh-pmF8o41NoarQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  voice: +1 416 482-8253

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Version: 2.6.3ia
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1GaWXq31PwCvAob1dBmRqKBYu35Zucf5pYJvddNRCX6JYqbZpARjGe1SlbIeFcix
CSQ/SmljbsBEKOjOSGsrQP8BVjUwXeO3mYj0J6YRXhK7TWhkbedo4NXnbwrt5xGg
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 10:10:17 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 06:10:17 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 30 Sep 2003 23:46:51 -0400
Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
>    I sent the email through my ISP's server.

That's weird, I just tried it and I get the same problem:

SMTP server problem (-113): No route to host
Message is left in outbox.

I wonder if Balsa doesn't like being NAT'ed or something...when I was
testing it I never bothered to try to send, once I saw I could not
automagically quote text for reply by selecting it with my mouse...test
over!

>  I used to use my local sendmail, but I started getting caught in spam
>  filters.

ya, unless you have a valid, registered mail domain you get RBL'd. It's
all part of the nightmare we share, thanks to unsecured relays and evil
spammers.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That, that is, is.
That, that is not, is not.
That, that is, is not that, that is not.
That, that is not, is not that, that is.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 10:31:22 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 06:31:22 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <29280.199.64.0.252.1064943813.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <29280.199.64.0.252.1064943813.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <3F7AACFA.20302@rogers.com>

WEP is still useful, in that it will send attackers to easier targets,
rather than putting the effort into cracking it.  Also, I run a VPN over
my wireless and it and ssh are the only ways to get through my firewall.


Kareem Shehata wrote:
> WEP is useless.  I know people who have worked on either breaking it, or
> securing 802.11 using better techniques.  While the first group of people
> have had a great deal of success, the later have yet to get something
> widely accepted in hardware.
> You're best bet is to use something at a higher level than the
> Data-Link-Layer.  Freeswan has a good solution for wireless lan's from
> what I've heard.  You can also leave the IP-layer open, and secure the
> application layer with SSL or something similar.
> Good luck!
> 
> Kareem
> 
> 
> Gardner Bell said:
> 
>>I've been considering moving to a wireless network system but after
>>many articles I have read is it really worth it?  One such article I
>>read was on the WEP algorithm and numerous flaws found by the analysts,
>>such as a
>>dictionary-building attacks, active attack to inject new traffic from
>>unauthorized mobile stations, etc. How easily could a
>>hacker pull off this kind of attack on an 802.11 network?
>>The initialization vector in WEP I have read is only 24-bit and is sent
>>in the clear-text part of a message, with only a small amount of
>>initialization vectors how often would the same key-stream be used on a
>>rather small home network?  A busy access point, which constantly sends
>>1500 byte packets at 11Mbps, will exhaust the space of IVs after
>>1500*8/(11*10^6)*2^24 = ~18000 seconds, or 5 hours.  Would the time
>>increase or decrease using wireless with Roger's or does it all depend
>>on how much traffic my machines are sending? What measures have others
>>here taken to secure their wireless networks if any of you have them
>>and what specific hardware would you recommend?  Any other info that
>>you could provide would be greatly beneficial.
>>
>>thanks
>>--
>>Gardner Bell - personal site www.gamecraze.net
>>GPG Fingerprint
>>C6F5 39E1 9E9A 9FAC 9DCE  78A3 9C8B 39F4 0895 FD3F
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> 



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 10:31:29 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 06:31:29 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <20030930201141.GA838-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com> <200309301501.07276.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <3F79E0F1.4020809@halfmind.com> <20030930201141.GA838@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <3F7AAD01.5050609@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 04:00:49PM -0400, WK wrote:

>>True.  I'm not saying that my network is 100% secured against hacker, 
> 
> 
> Mine is 100% secure against anyone and everyone.  I can't even break-in,
> that is, until I plug it into wall socket.
> 

I turn off the wireless access, when I'm not using it.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 10:31:38 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 06:31:38 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <3F79F279.1070209-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F79F279.1070209@codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <3F7AAD0A.2070006@rogers.com>

Emir wrote:

> The moment you introduce wireless access on your network, all your 
> computers
> are exposed, which means don't rely on your Internet firewall, every 
> machine
> needs to firewall itself (you can still keep your Internet firewall as an
> outer perimeter, but don't fall into false sense of security).
> 
> If you're unable or unwilling to expend the effort to protect each 
> individual
> machine on the network that is to be extended through wireless means, I
> suggest you don't use wireless at all.

My wireless is outside my firewall and a VPN or ssh must be used to gain
  access.  Also, my home is quite a way from the nearest street, so "war
driving" shouldn't be much of an issue, though "war parking" might.  ;-)



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 10:31:47 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 06:31:47 -0400
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <ltoex1kjji.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>	<3F79F279.1070209@codemonkeys.org> <ltoex1kjji.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <3F7AAD13.40407@rogers.com>

Tim Writer wrote:
> Emir <emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org> writes:

>>As people already pointed out, there's a slew of "solutions"; I prefer to call
>>them "workarounds".  As someone who's had a wireless network for a very long
>>time now (I was one of the co-founders of the now-defunct Toronto Wireless
>>Community Network), I can offer you the following advice: treat your wireless
>>network as the most hostile section of the Internet.
>>
>>Don't rely on WEP by any means, in fact I'd suggest you turn it off because it
>>does nothing 'cept reducing throughput and causing silly disconnects.  Your
>>real protection comes higher up on the TCP stack, as VPN, SSL, or SSH tunnel.
> 
> 
> I couldn't agree more.  A few people have mentioned FreeS/WAN which is a
> great solution but can be daunting to setup.  A very nice alternative is:
> 
>     http://openvpn.sourceforge.net/
> 
> which runs on Linux and Windows.  On my home network, I have a LEAF firewall
> with a wireless card.  All traffic from the WLAN is denied except OpenVPN to
> my desktop.  When I bring the WLAN interface of my notebook up, I also bring
> up OpenVPN.  And the OpenVPN startup script makes OpenVPN the default route.
> With this approach, anyone can join my WLAN without too much difficulty but
> they can't go anywhere unless they have an OpenVPN connection.

I have something similar, except I'm using CIPE for my VPN.

> 
> 
>>The moment you introduce wireless access on your network, all your computers
>>are exposed, which means don't rely on your Internet firewall, every machine
>>needs to firewall itself (you can still keep your Internet firewall as an
>>outer perimeter, but don't fall into false sense of security).
> 
> 
> Another good point.  Many (most?) of the SOHO wireless access points on the
> market claim to be firewalls too.  In practice, they firewall only the
> Internet connection, giving wireless devices full access to your LAN.  Don't
> be misled by features such as a MAC filter which deny Internet access to
> devices with an unknown MAC address but still give them full access to the
> LAN.
> 

It would be nice if those boxes could be "reversed". where the wireless
side is hostile and the wan side friendly.




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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 10:55:35 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 06:55:35 -0400
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <3F7AB2A7.9030207@rogers.com>

Wil McGilvery wrote:
> I was checking my laptop this morning when lo and behold a wireless access point appeared. Being the curious person that I am I tried to sign onto the network named default only to find a very insecure wireless connection and a router with no admin password.
> 
> Using sneaker net and my laptop I think I now know who the neighbour is that offering his Internet connection to the world.
> 
> What I am wondering is if anyone on the list knows of a better way to pinpoint the location of a wireless access point.

About the only way, is to use a directional antenna, which helps to 
determine the direction.  The best ones to use, produce a deep null 
(cardiod pattern) in one direction, which is far sharper than the broad 
peak, produced by most directional antennas.

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 11:55:07 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:55:07 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
Message-ID: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill@sympatico.ca>


This is just priceless:

"Microsoft's Security Response Center in Redmond, Wash., is the
computing equivalent of a hospital emergency ward. When a problem comes
in the door the center's director, Kevin Kean, and his staff must
swiftly make an assessment: Is the security weakness detected in a
Microsoft software product only minor? Or is it possibly so serious
that, if exploited by a vandal's malicious code (as happened last month
with the Blaster worm) it might crash computers and networks around the
world?

If the threat appears grave, the problem goes immediately into the
center's emergency operating room, where it is attended to by a team of
Microsoft engineers, working nearly round-the-clock to analyze the
flawed code, anticipate paths of attack, devise a software patch to fix
the defect and alert millions of customers of the problem and the patch.

"It's triage and emergency response \x{2014} so it's a lot like an E.R.
ward in that sense," Mr. Kean observed last week.

The race to protect the computing patient has begun again."


Oh the Heroic and Brave Microsoft Software Engineers, working day and
night to protect the innocent! ROTFLMAO!

This is the best part:

"Other operating systems like Linux, Unix and Macintosh, experts say,
all have security vulnerabilities. "But they don't get the attention and
the attacks because, unlike Microsoft, the other technologies are not
deployed on 300 million computers," said Russ Cooper, a security expert
at TruSecure, a computer security company. "This is not just Microsoft's
problem."

Oh, really? I think Unix is deployed on more machines than MS, is it
not? Isn't it Unix that *runs the freaking internet*? LOL!

Source (if you can call it that):

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/29/technology/29SOFT.html

Please, if you have a minute, do as I did and write a little note
explaining some of this to the NY Times...

http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/lettertoeditor.html

You gotta sign up/register, but it's free...and I'm sure some of you can
do a much better job than I did at debunking this shite!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The truth is rarely pure, and never simple.
		-- Oscar Wilde
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 12:53:45 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:53:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001085205.2141A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:
> Oh, really? I think Unix is deployed on more machines than MS, is it
> not?

No, I'm afraid not.  Most PCs are desktop boxes, not servers, and
Microslop is still overwhelmingly dominant on the desktop.  Unix (in the
generic sense of the term) dominates the server market but is not yet a
major player on the desktop. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 13:16:53 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:16:53 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001085205.2141A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001085205.2141A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20031001091653.77056c4d.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 08:53:45 -0400 (EDT)
Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> No, I'm afraid not.  Most PCs are desktop boxes, not servers, and
> Microslop is still overwhelmingly dominant on the desktop.  Unix (in
> the generic sense of the term) dominates the server market but is not
> yet a major player on the desktop. 

You are correct, sir. I should have clarified that point better. What I
was getting at is that the problems we suffer through on the internet
are the product of Microsoft's insecurity, not it's market share, though
the fewer people running MS on the desktop, the fewer problems we would
have.

I guess it's the old difference between a quantitative and qualitative
argument.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Murphy's Law is recursive.  Washing your car to make it rain doesn't
work.
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 13:30:44 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 09:30:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> Oh, really? I think Unix is deployed on more machines than MS, is it
> not? Isn't it Unix that *runs the freaking internet*? LOL!

Depends on how you define unix :)  These days the Internet basically runs
on Cisco boxes.  Cisco's OS is called IOS and is infact a cut down version
of unix (BSD flavour I think).  I don't really think of it as a unix
anymore though as it is quite divergent.  Once apon a time before there
were dedicated routers almost all routing was done through unix boxes.

Incidentally, I believe the current almost universal reliance on Cisco
gear to route poses the same "single point of failure" threat that has
long been levelled at an MS dominated desktop.  The poor degree security
applied to many Cisco routers only makes the situation worse.

Unix certainly dominates the high end user market (I don't think any
currently existing MS-Windows box can be called high end because of
problems with scalability) and they are making inroads on the desktop
(slowly but surely).

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 14:15:19 2003
From: steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Ellis, Steve)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:15:19 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
Message-ID: <A37D93BF2888D51197CD00508BBD49C30DAA6C4F@cbexch03.mobility.com>



> You are correct, sir. I should have clarified that point better. What I
> was getting at is that the problems we suffer through on the internet
> are the product of Microsoft's insecurity, not it's market share, though
> the fewer people running MS on the desktop, the fewer problems we would
> have.

A further point is that it is the M$ market share that makes it easy for
code to be written to exploit any vulnerability. It would be harder for worm
and virus programs to propagate if there was a more diverse Internet client
O/S's as code would have to be included to detect the O/S, version, email
client, etc..
However as for security and vulnerabilities the onus is on the user to
protect and maintain their systems. The use of *NIX is not a guarantee of
security. It never ceases to amaze me how many new LINUX users are logged in
as root or run services as root. New vulnerabilities will always be found in
existing and new code, patches will be written, but will the user
communities actually patch their systems?

Diversification of code and standardisation of protocols should be the goal.
This will lead to innovation and not stagnation.

Steve

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 14:23:49 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:23:49 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <A37D93BF2888D51197CD00508BBD49C30DAA6C4F-V3QiDF9hLpFnLuxYkBQkFeqUGfbH9hYC@public.gmane.org>
References: <A37D93BF2888D51197CD00508BBD49C30DAA6C4F@cbexch03.mobility.com>
Message-ID: <20031001102349.60687044.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:15:19 -0400 
"Ellis, Steve" <steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> A further point is that it is the M$ market share that makes it easy
> for code to be written to exploit any vulnerability. It would be
> harder for worm and virus programs to propagate if there was a more
> diverse Internet client O/S's as code would have to be included to
> detect the O/S, version, email client, etc..

Which was the point of the CCIA's report, yes. I agree, but I think that
MS uses the "we're just a bigger target because we're so successful"
spin to deflect legitimate criticism of their flawed approach to
software design. That spin should be debunked wherever and whenever
possible.

> However as for security and vulnerabilities the onus is on the user to
> protect and maintain their systems. The use of *NIX is not a guarantee
> of security. It never ceases to amaze me how many new LINUX users are
> logged in as root or run services as root. New vulnerabilities will
> always be found in existing and new code, patches will be written, but
> will the user communities actually patch their systems?

Again, in full agreement, but I'd still put a default install of *nix up
against a default install of Windows for being far less vulnerable to
trivial exploits. It is a shared responsiblily, in the end, between
coders and users to approach their use of the network with security in
mind, much as it is a shared responsibility between auto manufacturers
and drivers to make sure the roads are not a bloodbath.

Firewalls and seatbelts everybody! ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no comfort without pain; thus we define salvation through
suffering.
		-- Cato
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 17:16:39 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:16:39 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Instant messaging --> now what?
In-Reply-To: <13448.216.138.194.32.1064967723.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEKENKCCAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309302257040.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>       
 <12590.216.138.194.32.1064954190.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010002490.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <13448.216.138.194.32.1064967723.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012013500.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > Now you lost me. What is the sense of the word 'secure' and what is a
> > 'publically accessible server' in the sense used above ? I am not
> > nitpicking, I am too stunned to react yet. Any pointers on what this FTC
> > action is/called ?
>
> See the article here:
> http://www.enterpriseitplanet.com/security/news/article.php/3084881

Ok, I understand now. I overreacted a little I think.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 17:17:47 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:17:47 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Automated Scam Generator
In-Reply-To: <200309302044.46528.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20030930174510.A28633@ee.ryerson.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010105360.1589@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <200309302044.46528.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012016550.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Tuesday 30 September 2003 18:07, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> > If it helps any, the ones I get usually come from Nigeria. I don't think
> > it's a script. Someone clever enough to write a script to do that would
> > probably have the required iq to find the spell checker button in front of
> > his nose and use it.
>
> I believe the spelling mistakes are to defeat simple anti-spam tools.

A personal letter from a bank employee with anti-spam deliberate spilling
errors would be the reddest of all red herrings, no ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 17:24:55 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:24:55 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012018230.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Wil McGilvery wrote:

> What I am wondering is if anyone on the list knows of a better way to
> pinpoint the location of a wireless access point.

There would be the trick of making the antenna directive and taking a
bearing or two. You can do this using yourself (your body) as movable
attenuator screen. Put the laptop on a non-metallic desk and slowly walk
around the desk while keeping fairly close to the laptop. When the
fieldstrength indicator dips you are cutting the main vector that ties the
laptop to the transmitter. Keep in mind that there will be reflected paths
too so there will be several dips. The biggest one is the one you are
looking for.

This works because your body is mostly water, and 2.4GHz is absorbed
pretty well by water (microwave ovens work at 2.4GHz too). The field
strength indicator must have reasonable resolution for this to work (say
3dB steps or finer).

This trick works for most microwave equipment above 1.5GHz, including GPS
up to a point. Do not try it with active radar though.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 17:33:53 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:33:53 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
 <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
 <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca> <20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca> <20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> ya, unless you have a valid, registered mail domain you get RBL'd. It's
> all part of the nightmare we share, thanks to unsecured relays and evil
> spammers.

What nightmare ?! Having a registered domani name for use on the internet
is mandatory. You can't just make one up. 99% of spam exsists because this
rule is not enforced. I use postfix on my desktop as MTA and it
masquerades all my internal domain names to external. What's so hard ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 17:43:44 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:43:44 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Wireless network (WEP security)
In-Reply-To: <3F7AAD01.5050609-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309301317500.1427@localhost.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <3F79CBBD.4000402@halfmind.com> <200309301501.07276.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
 <3F79E0F1.4020809@halfmind.com> <20030930201141.GA838@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <3F7AAD01.5050609@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012034201.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, James Knott wrote:

> William Park wrote:
> > On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 04:00:49PM -0400, WK wrote:
>
> >>True.  I'm not saying that my network is 100% secured against hacker,
> >
> >
> > Mine is 100% secure against anyone and everyone.  I can't even break-in,
> > that is, until I plug it into wall socket.
> >
>
> I turn off the wireless access, when I'm not using it.

I have a friend who owns a computer shop. He had this bluetooth networking
thing plugged into USB. Someone walked into the shop. Hop, the guy's
cellular phone was on the (usb) network neighborhood, all addresses and
things browseable (the guy knew nothing of it, the phone was in his
pocket). Maybe he could have placed a call (he did not try).

You worry about your home computer security ? Do you expect the average
phone user to navigate the defaults on his super-gimmicky-gadgety cellular
and set safe options when he doesn't bother to install an anti-virus on
his windoze machine ? Yeah right. And this hasn't even started yet. Did
you know that some phones respond to IrDa challenges and will connect to
any laptop that presents itself ?

I mean, when sitting in a restaurant, cellular on the table, not looking
hard, the guy on the table opposite with the laptop may not be reading his
email, he may be browsing your address book in the phone, using IrDa.
Maybe even update it (I don't know if it's possible).

Peter
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 17:53:05 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:53:05 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:33:53 +0300 (IDDT)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> What nightmare ?! Having a registered domani name for use on the
> internet is mandatory. You can't just make one up. 99% of spam exsists
> because this rule is not enforced. I use postfix on my desktop as MTA
> and it masquerades all my internal domain names to external. What's so
> hard ?

Whoa, easy there! I was under the impression that, even with a valid
domain name, the RBLs will blacklist you because you are coming from a
block of IP's that belong to an ISP, ie. you are considered an
"amateur".

If you want to be absolutely sure to remain *off* of the RBL's, you need
a registered mail server, like mail.whatever.com, at least that's the
impression I got from what I've read.

And if spam is not a nightmare, I don't know what is... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
By protracting life, we do not deduct one jot from the duration of
death.
		-- Titus Lucretius Carus
--
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From dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 18:52:02 2003
From: dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 14:52:02 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

I would like to get a USB "Memory stick", (the keychain style of memory)
I looked at Future Shop but it appears that the Sony stuff is somewhat 
proprietary (not clear if that means the file system used or what)
Anyone use these shuttling between  Linux/Windows/Apple boxes?

TIA
Dave

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 18:48:41 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:48:41 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020-jEdB8FrtaVhwsnrjJ/NEvh6iiDvReHXdQD2kPI2Sjl0@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012147080.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:

> I would like to get a USB "Memory stick", (the keychain style of memory)
> I looked at Future Shop but it appears that the Sony stuff is somewhat
> proprietary (not clear if that means the file system used or what)
> Anyone use these shuttling between  Linux/Windows/Apple boxes?

The USB dongle style memory (disk) and the Sony memory stick are two
different things. I do not think that a memory stick with USB exists.
Normally you buy a USB dongle disk and use that on various systems.

Peter
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From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 18:52:56 2003
From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:52:56 -0400
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>

I'm still trying to get enough information to feel comfortable about 
sticking a second hard drive in my PC with some hope of it working.

The machine is a Dell XPS B733: Pentium 3, about 3 or 4 years old.  I 
went shopping yesterday and the first person I talked to who sounded 
knowledgeable said that a current 40GB drive would *probably* work, but 
larger ones might not be recognized by the IDE controller.  My user 
manual says the Dell uses ATA-33 (which I assume matches the 33Mhz PCI 
bus speed), while current drives all refer to ATA-133.  The 
salesperson's not-very-reassuring comment was that the 133 drives 
should be backward compatible to 100...and then I started wondering 
whether he was talking about RAM speeds instead.

So, as usual, the more I think about PC hardware, the more confused I 
become.  I used to run Linux on one of my Macs and I'm having trouble 
remembering why I switched.  Oh, ya...someone gave me a free Intel box! 
  :-)

Anyone willing to share some relevant facts?

........................
Phillip Mills
Multi-platform software development
(416) 224-0714

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 18:53:36 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:53:36 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: latin 1, xfig?
In-Reply-To: <3F78D54D.72C48EC8-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F772855.F3A65E9C@qef.com> <3F78D54D.72C48EC8@qef.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012152320.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Hi,

I just tried this, I also have xfig 3.2pl2 and the function does not work.
I am unable to insert any characters. I tried to change fonts and several
other settings. Is there a howto on how to do this right ?

thanks,

Peter

On Mon, 29 Sep 2003, David Tilbrook wrote:

> Previously I wrote ...
>
> David Tilbrook wrote:
> >
> > xfig has support for the Latin-1 characters in that one
> > can use the Atl key followed by a two letter encoding to
> > yield characters in the non-ascii range.  For example
> > Alt-SO yields ? (the section sign).
> >
> > Q: Does anyone know of other programs that use the same
> >    encoding?  Is it some sort of standard?
> >
> > Q: Does anyone know the xfig encoding for the acute accent
> >    ? decimal 180, octal 264?  I've been able to map 0241
> >    through 0376, but 0264 eludes me.
> >
> > -- david
>
> The answer is that /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xfig/CompKeyDB
> contains the mapping so it's not clear than any other
> program uses it.
>
> The spacing acute (180) is inserted using Alt-\\ (really).
> The spacing cedilla (184) was missing from the table
> so it's been added as Alt-,,.
>
> -- david
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 18:55:31 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:55:31 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: latin 1, xfig?
In-Reply-To: <3F78D54D.72C48EC8-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F772855.F3A65E9C@qef.com> <3F78D54D.72C48EC8@qef.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012154570.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Ok, disregard the previous posting, it works fine. My compose key is
different because of the local character set.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 19:02:58 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:02:58 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012201410.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


ATA33 refers to the standard of the IDE interface. ATA133 the same. ATA133
is 4 times faster than ATA33 but it should be compatible (and run slowly).

Peter

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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 19:04:31 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:04:31 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020-jEdB8FrtaVhwsnrjJ/NEvh6iiDvReHXdQD2kPI2Sjl0@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1065035071.10094.2.camel@linux.local>

I use the Transcend JetFlash USB memory sticks. The have full support
within the 2.4x series kernels ( even stated this on the front of the
box ). I have had no problems going between XP, ME, 98, Suse 8.2, MDK
9.1, Lindows, and RedHat 8 & 9. They are available in sizes up to 2GB


On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 14:52, dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:
> I would like to get a USB "Memory stick", (the keychain style of memory)
> I looked at Future Shop but it appears that the Sony stuff is somewhat 
> proprietary (not clear if that means the file system used or what)
> Anyone use these shuttling between  Linux/Windows/Apple boxes?
> 
> TIA
> Dave
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 19:15:50 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:15:50 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
 <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
 <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca> <20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca> <20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:33:53 +0300 (IDDT)
> "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > What nightmare ?! Having a registered domani name for use on the
> > internet is mandatory. You can't just make one up. 99% of spam exsists
> > because this rule is not enforced. I use postfix on my desktop as MTA
> > and it masquerades all my internal domain names to external. What's so
> > hard ?
>
> Whoa, easy there! I was under the impression that, even with a valid
> domain name, the RBLs will blacklist you because you are coming from a
> block of IP's that belong to an ISP, ie. you are considered an
> "amateur".

Mailhops are dumb pieces of equipment humming along in air-conditioned
rooms. They do not consider things. They check that the ip of the previous
mailhop matches its name (the one it gives in the helo smtp line). Then,
if more bsod style setup, they check that *each* mailhop name in the
message maps to a real ip. Therefore if a unregistered domain appears
anywhere in the envelope the mail could be deleted as spam. Therefore you
do not put any unregistered domain in there. So you translate (masquerade)
each unregistered name at domain to the ones you are really registered as at
the isp you are using.

But many organisations hide their desktops behind routers and firewalls so
there is no way for a server to check all the envelope names against their
ips. So this feature mostly does not work because everyone disables it.
That's why hard-to-trace spam can exist.

Half the denied pings I get here come from ips that cannot be named.

> If you want to be absolutely sure to remain *off* of the RBL's, you need
> a registered mail server, like mail.whatever.com, at least that's the
> impression I got from what I've read.

Unfortunately, no. Just make sure that what you send matches the domain of
the server you are connecting to.

> And if spam is not a nightmare, I don't know what is... ;-)

More spam, or a blackout at the wrong time, or both of these thing. I can
also think of another 5-600 things that are pretty bad if you want.

Peter
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 19:16:40 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:16:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001145812.7495A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Phillip Mills wrote:
> went shopping yesterday and the first person I talked to who sounded 
> knowledgeable said that a current 40GB drive would *probably* work, but 
> larger ones might not be recognized by the IDE controller.  My user 
> manual says the Dell uses ATA-33 (which I assume matches the 33Mhz PCI 
> bus speed), while current drives all refer to ATA-133...

There are actually two separate issues here.

"ATA-33", "ATA-133", etc., are about the ATA transfer speed.  That is not
a compatibility worry, because it's pretty much all backward-compatible: 
an old controller talking to a new drive won't get the higher speed that
the new drive is capable of, but it *will* cope.

The problem with really big drives is that the old IDE standard simply did
not envision drives bigger than 128GB -- it runs out of bits in its block
numbers.  This became an issue only a couple of years ago, and a machine
that's 3-4yr old almost certainly has this limit.  You *can* put a bigger
drive on an old interface... but only the first 128GB will be accessible. 
There is no workaround.

(There are sometimes lower limits due to stupidities in old BIOSes, old
operating systems, etc.)

> So, as usual, the more I think about PC hardware, the more confused I 
> become.

Run, do not walk, to your local technical bookstore (the U of T Bookstore
is a reasonable choice) and buy Thompson&Thompson's "PC Hardware in a
Nutshell", 2nd ed.  It's not quite perfect -- and since it's a year old,
it's already behind the times in some areas -- but it's human-readable and
is the very best reference on the subject. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 19:33:52 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 15:33:52 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 22:15:50 +0300 (IDDT)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Therefore if a unregistered domain appears
> anywhere in the envelope the mail could be deleted as spam. Therefore
> you do not put any unregistered domain in there. So you translate
> (masquerade) each unregistered name at domain to the ones you are really
> registered as at the isp you are using.

Ok, this part I think I understand, when I sent mail from my box as
user-aVhblUPYB0nrUdxDeFtalg at public.gmane.org, it was rejected by many recipients because doing
a reverse lookup revealed that my IP *actually* belonged to
sympatico.ca, no?

now what I do is tell Postfix to relay my mail through Sympatico's smtp
server, and all is well. But you seem to be saying there is a way I
could do this by "masquerading"...I'll have to do more reading
obviously...

I have read, IIRC, that one can get a static IP and register it against
a valid mail.domain.com address, and that is the only way to be
*totally* legit, at least in the eyes of some recipients who are very
spam-sensitive. Am I getting this wrong?

> But many organisations hide their desktops behind routers and
> firewalls so there is no way for a server to check all the envelope
> names against their ips. So this feature mostly does not work because
> everyone disables it. That's why hard-to-trace spam can exist.

This is where I'm really behind in terms of knowledge of how mail works.
Isn't this where the RBL's come in? They say, "I cannot map this domain
to a valid IP, therefore it is quite likely spam..." and either bounce
it or /dev/null it?

Thanks for the edumucation....!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Death is life's way of telling you you've been fired.
		-- R. Geis
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 19:58:02 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:58:02 -0400
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <1065038282.7941.6.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Owning an 80GB at the largest I don't have personal experience with
pushing beyond the BIOS' 128GB limit that Henry spoke about (though I
knew it exists) however I have in the past accessed and mounted drives
not seen by the system BIOS... I know a while back when the 8GB limit
was the issue (and later with the 32GB limit) there where custom boot
loaders (or such) included with the drives called Disk Drive Overlay
(DDO) utilities. These allowed you to surpas BIOS limits and the method
these appas used may be the same methods Linux uses (accessing the
drives around the BIOS). 

Have you checked you mainboard manufacturer's website to see if they
have an updated BIOS for your mainboard? If so, read the updates and I
am willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that a patch to allow drives
larger than originally planned is available. 

Madison

BTW - By specifying UDMA/133 (ATA133) I am assuming that you are looking
at a Maxtor/Western Digital. If I may, -please- avoid those like the
plague! I am sure others here may disagree with me but I have worked on
-many- systems and I have seen too many of those die. In fact I was
helping a person with a dead 200GB Maxtor this morning. Seagate 7200.7
drives are fantastic and I have never regretted using them (or their
predecessors).

On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 14:52, Phillip Mills wrote:
> I'm still trying to get enough information to feel comfortable about 
> sticking a second hard drive in my PC with some hope of it working.
> 
> The machine is a Dell XPS B733: Pentium 3, about 3 or 4 years old.  I 
> went shopping yesterday and the first person I talked to who sounded 
> knowledgeable said that a current 40GB drive would *probably* work, but 
> larger ones might not be recognized by the IDE controller.  My user 
> manual says the Dell uses ATA-33 (which I assume matches the 33Mhz PCI 
> bus speed), while current drives all refer to ATA-133.  The 
> salesperson's not-very-reassuring comment was that the 133 drives 
> should be backward compatible to 100...and then I started wondering 
> whether he was talking about RAM speeds instead.
> 
> So, as usual, the more I think about PC hardware, the more confused I 
> become.  I used to run Linux on one of my Macs and I'm having trouble 
> remembering why I switched.  Oh, ya...someone gave me a free Intel box! 
>   :-)
> 
> Anyone willing to share some relevant facts?
> 
> ........................
> Phillip Mills
> Multi-platform software development
> (416) 224-0714
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 19:59:43 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:59:43 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020-jEdB8FrtaVhwsnrjJ/NEvh6iiDvReHXdQD2kPI2Sjl0@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1065038383.7941.9.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

I have the el-cheapo Apacer brand 64MB stick and though I won't say much
for it's quality (I was/am poor so I went cheap) it does work just fine
under Linux.

Madison

On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 14:52, dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:
> I would like to get a USB "Memory stick", (the keychain style of memory)
> I looked at Future Shop but it appears that the Sony stuff is somewhat 
> proprietary (not clear if that means the file system used or what)
> Anyone use these shuttling between  Linux/Windows/Apple boxes?
> 
> TIA
> Dave
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 20:17:19 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:17:19 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310011617.20968.marc@lijour.net>

Le 1 Octobre 2003 07:55, JoeHill a ?crit :
> This is just priceless:
>
> "Microsoft's Security Response Center in Redmond, Wash., is the
> computing equivalent of a hospital emergency ward. When a problem comes
> in the door the center's director, Kevin Kean, and his staff must
> swiftly make an assessment: Is the security weakness detected in a
> Microsoft software product only minor? Or is it possibly so serious
> that, if exploited by a vandal's malicious code (as happened last month
> with the Blaster worm) it might crash computers and networks around the
> world?
>
> If the threat appears grave, the problem goes immediately into the
> center's emergency operating room, where it is attended to by a team of
> Microsoft engineers, working nearly round-the-clock to analyze the
> flawed code, anticipate paths of attack, devise a software patch to fix
> the defect and alert millions of customers of the problem and the patch.
>
> "It's triage and emergency response \x{2014} so it's a lot like an E.R.
> ward in that sense," Mr. Kean observed last week.
>
> The race to protect the computing patient has begun again."
>
>
> Oh the Heroic and Brave Microsoft Software Engineers, working day and
> night to protect the innocent! ROTFLMAO!
>
> This is the best part:
>
> "Other operating systems like Linux, Unix and Macintosh, experts say,
> all have security vulnerabilities. "But they don't get the attention and
> the attacks because, unlike Microsoft, the other technologies are not
> deployed on 300 million computers," said Russ Cooper, a security expert
> at TruSecure, a computer security company. "This is not just Microsoft's
> problem."
>
> Oh, really? I think Unix is deployed on more machines than MS, is it
> not? Isn't it Unix that *runs the freaking internet*? LOL!
>
> Source (if you can call it that):
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/29/technology/29SOFT.html
>
> Please, if you have a minute, do as I did and write a little note
> explaining some of this to the NY Times...
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/ref/membercenter/help/lettertoeditor.html
>
> You gotta sign up/register, but it's free...and I'm sure some of you can
> do a much better job than I did at debunking this shite!

He makes an interesting point here:

"Yet years of steady progress in the quality of software engineering will be 
needed for big gains in security and reliability to become apparent. And it 
starts with education, noted Shawn Hernan, a security specialist at CERT. He 
makes a game of seeing how quickly he can find security vulnerabilities in 
the programming examples used in college textbooks. It rarely takes him more 
than few minutes."

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From garfield-o1KnIK80MWoTRQv+KTR+0w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 20:29:19 2003
From: garfield-o1KnIK80MWoTRQv+KTR+0w at public.gmane.org (Peter M Garfield)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:29:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <1065038383.7941.9.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <1065038383.7941.9.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0310011622250.123280@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>


Hi,

Madison wrote:
> I have the el-cheapo Apacer brand 64MB stick and though I won't say much
> for it's quality (I was/am poor so I went cheap) it does work just fine
> under Linux.

I also went el-cheapo; my USB flash drive (as I know it) says
"PowerData" on the front.  I have no problems at home on my Mandrake
9.0 system or the Windows XP box at the office.

However, on my desk at work on an updated Red Hat 7.3 (where I'm not
root).  On this machine, the USB drive only works on fresh re-boots.
After some time (and I haven't experimented enough to see what the
problem is) it will *appear* to work, but then not really write to the
drive.  If I leave it mounted, the files I've written to /mnt/flash/
will simply vanish.  On the other hand, if I unmount and remount,
they're not there.  It's as if the drive is read-only, which it
isn't.  This quirk aside, this USB keychain drives are marvelous
things.  I'd still prefer a CD burner in the office, but only just. :)

Peter

-- 
Peter M. Garfield
Postdoctoral Fellow, University of Toronto
garfield-o1KnIK80MWoTRQv+KTR+0w at public.gmane.org
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From george-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 20:41:04 2003
From: george-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (George Pop)
Date: 01 Oct 2003 16:41:04 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: Madison Kelly's message of "Wed, 01 Oct 2003 15:59:43 -0400"
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1065038383.7941.9.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <lypthghesf.fsf@sol.starnix.com>

I'm using a 256 MB Seitec USB bar. Works really well. Any USB flash which has
no need of drivers for windows XP/2000 should work though.

Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> writes:

> I have the el-cheapo Apacer brand 64MB stick and though I won't say much
> for it's quality (I was/am poor so I went cheap) it does work just fine
> under Linux.
> 
> Madison
> 
> On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 14:52, dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > I would like to get a USB "Memory stick", (the keychain style of memory)
> > I looked at Future Shop but it appears that the Sony stuff is somewhat 
> > proprietary (not clear if that means the file system used or what)
> > Anyone use these shuttling between  Linux/Windows/Apple boxes?
> > 
> > TIA
> > Dave

-- 
George Pop <george-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>  	                      Starnix Inc.
Telephone: (905) 771-0017                       Thornhill, Ontario, Canada
http://www.starnix.com/             Professional Linux Services & Products
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From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 20:58:18 2003
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 13:58:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: poetry
Message-ID: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>

I'd like to try my hand at writing poems.  Is there any Linux programs  that I could type a word such as would and the program would return a list that contains should?  


The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 21:06:39 2003
From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:06:39 -0400
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <20031001205818.38540.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031001210639.GJ1516@seahorse>

On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 01:58:18PM -0700, Mel Seder wrote:
> I'd like to try my hand at writing poems.  Is there any Linux programs
> that I could type a word such as would and the program would return a
> list that contains should?  

Dearest Mel
'Twould be swell
if poetry ye seek to write
Linux 'ware
all can share
can help you in your plight
clicking hither
and clicking thither
these travails shall make you sweat
I recommend
my poetic friend
http://rhyme.sourceforge.net
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 20:51:29 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 16:51:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <10244.216.138.194.32.1065041489.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


Hi Phillip,

> I'm still trying to get enough information to feel comfortable about
> sticking a second hard drive in my PC with some hope of it working.
>
> The machine is a Dell XPS B733: Pentium 3, about 3 or 4 years old.  I
> went shopping yesterday and the first person I talked to who sounded
> knowledgeable said that a current 40GB drive would *probably* work, but
> larger ones might not be recognized by the IDE controller.  My user
> manual says the Dell uses ATA-33 (which I assume matches the 33Mhz PCI
> bus speed), while current drives all refer to ATA-133.  The
> salesperson's not-very-reassuring comment was that the 133 drives
> should be backward compatible to 100...and then I started wondering
> whether he was talking about RAM speeds instead.

Yeah, he was confusing terms like crazy. ATA-33 is 33 MB/s (Ultra ATA mode
2), and ATA133 is supposed to be capable of 133 MB/s (Ultra ATA mode ).
ATA-133 is a bit of a farce. "-33," "-66," and "-100" really only tell you
that the drive can burst up to that particular speed. They usually have a
hard time sustaining a respectable and steady 45 MB/s.

A quick search through the dell site shows that this system can handle a
250GB hard drive.
http://support.dell.com/us/en/docs/index.asp?cc=7&ct=28

Always, always always search the 'net before talking to retail
salespeople. If they have half a clue they're dangerous.

<anecdote>
There's an A+ dude works in the Future Shop around the corner, and the one
time I talked to him he insisted that BSD couldn't handle new hardware,
and that's why they (FS) only sell systems with windoh$ on them. :| (I
gave him points for trying though)
</anecdote>

HTH

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 21:15:52 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:15:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <20031001205818.38540.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310011709350.10205@xword.rogers.com>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Mel Seder wrote:

> I'd like to try my hand at writing poems.  Is there any Linux
> programs that I could type a word such as would and the program
> would return a list that contains should?

      Get a good word list, e.g. :
           <http://www.puzzlers.org/wordlists/ukacd_readme.php>

      Use grep, anchored at the end of the word, to seach for the part
      of the word you want to match:

grep ould$ /usr/share/dict/UKACD15a.TXT

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 21:06:10 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:06:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
        <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
        <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
        <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
        <20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
        <20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>
        <20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
        <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <10300.216.138.194.32.1065042370.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<snip>
> Whoa, easy there! I was under the impression that, even with a valid
> domain name, the RBLs will blacklist you because you are coming from a
> block of IP's that belong to an ISP, ie. you are considered an
> "amateur".

No. If you get your ISP to enter your reverse dns settings up to reflect
your routable hostname the mail will get accepted.

> If you want to be absolutely sure to remain *off* of the RBL's, you need
> a registered mail server, like mail.whatever.com, at least that's the
> impression I got from what I've read.

If you want to remain sure to stay off the RBL's then don't allow your
mailserver to be used as a spam source or open relay. The RBL's aren't
some kind of Internet cop, they just keep a list of mailservers that have
a habit of processing spam.

In a way what you say is correct... you do want your mailserver to resolve
with an MX RR that resolves to an A RR, but the hostname doesn't have to
be mail, smtp or pop. We just use those to keep track of where our systems
are and what they do. :)

> And if spam is not a nightmare, I don't know what is... ;-)

Self-Appointed Jr. Sys-Admin (otherwise known as the night janitor).

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 21:39:54 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:39:54 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <10300.216.138.194.32.1065042370.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<10300.216.138.194.32.1065042370.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20031001173954.084c120d.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:06:10 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > Whoa, easy there! I was under the impression that, even with a valid
> > domain name, the RBLs will blacklist you because you are coming from
> > a block of IP's that belong to an ISP, ie. you are considered an
> > "amateur".
> 
> No. If you get your ISP to enter your reverse dns settings up to
> reflect your routable hostname the mail will get accepted.

But I don't have a static IP, and we're talking Sympatico here... ;-)
It's against my TOS to even run a mail server (of course, I can run a
P2P server and upload GB's of pr0n, *that's* no problem...).

> > If you want to be absolutely sure to remain *off* of the RBL's, you
> > need a registered mail server, like mail.whatever.com, at least
> > that's the impression I got from what I've read.
> 
> If you want to remain sure to stay off the RBL's then don't allow your
> mailserver to be used as a spam source or open relay. The RBL's aren't
> some kind of Internet cop, they just keep a list of mailservers that
> have a habit of processing spam.

On my end, Postfix is configured to send mail *only* for "host":

mynetworks_style = host

but I could configure it like so:

#mynetworks_style = subnet

so no one outside my router would be able to use it as a relay, right?

> In a way what you say is correct... you do want your mailserver to
> resolve with an MX RR that resolves to an A RR, but the hostname
> doesn't have to be mail, smtp or pop. We just use those to keep track
> of where our systems are and what they do. :)

Like I say, I'm currently on a dynamic IP, so I'm not even sure that's
possible. I use Zoneedit.com, which has a field where I can enter a
mailserver name...is that an MX record?

Sheesh, just when I think I've got a grasp on things, I realize how much
I have yet to learn...:-P

Thanks for the reply, I'm learning slowly, but I'm learnin'!
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't abandon hope.  Your Captain Midnight decoder ring arrives
tomorrow.
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 21:46:55 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 17:46:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <10393.216.138.194.32.1065044815.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<snip>
> This is the best part:
>
> "Other operating systems like Linux, Unix and Macintosh, experts say,
> all have security vulnerabilities. "But they don't get the attention and
> the attacks because, unlike Microsoft, the other technologies are not
> deployed on 300 million computers," said Russ Cooper, a security expert
> at TruSecure, a computer security company. "This is not just Microsoft's
> problem."
<snip>

Oh, NOW they want to talk about security. How about the fact that security
comes at a cost to functionality, and M$ made that distinction (and that
decision) long long ago?

Lies, damn lies, and statistics...

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:08:07 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:08:07 -0400
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012018230.546-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012018230.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F7B5047.1060407@rogers.com>

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Wil McGilvery wrote:
> 
> 
>>What I am wondering is if anyone on the list knows of a better way to
>>pinpoint the location of a wireless access point.
> 
> 
> There would be the trick of making the antenna directive and taking a
> bearing or two. You can do this using yourself (your body) as movable
> attenuator screen. Put the laptop on a non-metallic desk and slowly walk
> around the desk while keeping fairly close to the laptop. When the
> fieldstrength indicator dips you are cutting the main vector that ties the
> laptop to the transmitter. Keep in mind that there will be reflected paths
> too so there will be several dips. The biggest one is the one you are
> looking for.

I could make a certain comment about that, but I won't.  ;-)

However, often with microwaves, a reflected signal may be stronger, if 
there's something on the direct path to the source, that attenuates the 
signal.

> 
> This works because your body is mostly water, and 2.4GHz is absorbed
> pretty well by water (microwave ovens work at 2.4GHz too). The field
> strength indicator must have reasonable resolution for this to work (say
> 3dB steps or finer).
> 
> This trick works for most microwave equipment above 1.5GHz, including GPS
> up to a point. Do not try it with active radar though.

The principle is the same for all frequencies.  However, directional 
antennas are easier to obtain for the higher bands.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:16:11 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:16:11 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020-jEdB8FrtaVhwsnrjJ/NEvh6iiDvReHXdQD2kPI2Sjl0@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F7B522B.7000100@rogers.com>

dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:
> I would like to get a USB "Memory stick", (the keychain style of memory)
> I looked at Future Shop but it appears that the Sony stuff is somewhat 
> proprietary (not clear if that means the file system used or what)
> Anyone use these shuttling between  Linux/Windows/Apple boxes?

You're probably thinking of "pen drives", which contain flash memory and 
plug into the USB port.  I bought a 128 MB pen drive a while ago, for $50.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:19:27 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:19:27 -0400
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001145812.7495A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001145812.7495A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F7B52EF.4080200@rogers.com>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Phillip Mills wrote:
> 
>>went shopping yesterday and the first person I talked to who sounded 
>>knowledgeable said that a current 40GB drive would *probably* work, but 
>>larger ones might not be recognized by the IDE controller.  My user 
>>manual says the Dell uses ATA-33 (which I assume matches the 33Mhz PCI 
>>bus speed), while current drives all refer to ATA-133...
> 
> 
> There are actually two separate issues here.
> 
> "ATA-33", "ATA-133", etc., are about the ATA transfer speed.  That is not
> a compatibility worry, because it's pretty much all backward-compatible: 
> an old controller talking to a new drive won't get the higher speed that
> the new drive is capable of, but it *will* cope.
> 
> The problem with really big drives is that the old IDE standard simply did
> not envision drives bigger than 128GB -- it runs out of bits in its block
> numbers.  This became an issue only a couple of years ago, and a machine
> that's 3-4yr old almost certainly has this limit.  You *can* put a bigger
> drive on an old interface... but only the first 128GB will be accessible. 
> There is no workaround.
> 
> (There are sometimes lower limits due to stupidities in old BIOSes, old
> operating systems, etc.)
> 
> 
>>So, as usual, the more I think about PC hardware, the more confused I 
>>become.
> 
> 
> Run, do not walk, to your local technical bookstore (the U of T Bookstore
> is a reasonable choice) and buy Thompson&Thompson's "PC Hardware in a
> Nutshell", 2nd ed.  It's not quite perfect -- and since it's a year old,
> it's already behind the times in some areas -- but it's human-readable and
> is the very best reference on the subject. 

I find Scott Meuller's "Upgrading and Repairing PCs" to be good.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:24:13 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 18:24:13 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0310011622250.123280-F3dHBfUJrh+jUqcgrzQxahNFC/4pNH7T@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1065038383.7941.9.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <Pine.A41.4.58.0310011622250.123280@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <3F7B540D.7060107@rogers.com>

Peter M Garfield wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Madison wrote:
> 
>>I have the el-cheapo Apacer brand 64MB stick and though I won't say much
>>for it's quality (I was/am poor so I went cheap) it does work just fine
>>under Linux.
> 
> 
> I also went el-cheapo; my USB flash drive (as I know it) says
> "PowerData" on the front.  I have no problems at home on my Mandrake
> 9.0 system or the Windows XP box at the office.
> 
> However, on my desk at work on an updated Red Hat 7.3 (where I'm not
> root).  On this machine, the USB drive only works on fresh re-boots.
> After some time (and I haven't experimented enough to see what the
> problem is) it will *appear* to work, but then not really write to the
> drive.  If I leave it mounted, the files I've written to /mnt/flash/
> will simply vanish.  On the other hand, if I unmount and remount,
> they're not there.  It's as if the drive is read-only, which it
> isn't.  This quirk aside, this USB keychain drives are marvelous
> things.  I'd still prefer a CD burner in the office, but only just. :)


I'm also using RH 7.3 and it works fine with my pen drive.  However, I 
am running devlabel, which detects and correctly mounts USB & PCMCIA drives.



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From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:29:45 2003
From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:29:45 -0400
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310011709350.10205-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310011709350.10205@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031001222945.GK1516@seahorse>

On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 05:15:52PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>       Use grep, anchored at the end of the word, to seach for the part
>       of the word you want to match:
> 
> grep ould$ /usr/share/dict/UKACD15a.TXT

This won't always work of course, because "would" rhymes with "wood"
(false negative), and "wood" doesn't rhyme with "food" (false positve).
Poetic license might be okay with food and wood.

And what rhymes with "orange" anyway?
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:25:54 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001173954.084c120d.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
        <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
        <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
        <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
        <20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
        <20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>
        <20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
        <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <10300.216.138.194.32.1065042370.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <20031001173954.084c120d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <10492.216.138.194.32.1065047154.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<snip>
> But I don't have a static IP, and we're talking Sympatico here... ;-)
> It's against my TOS to even run a mail server (of course, I can run a
> P2P server and upload GB's of pr0n, *that's* no problem...).

Sympatico will not remap your reverse dns as it's all dynamic. They would
be my 2nd-to-last choice for an ISP for browsing the web, let alone trying
to run public servers of any type.

<snip>
> On my end, Postfix is configured to send mail *only* for "host":
>
> mynetworks_style = host
>
> but I could configure it like so:
>
> #mynetworks_style = subnet
>
> so no one outside my router would be able to use it as a relay, right?

Generally, yeah. There's more to it than that, but it's a good start.

>> In a way what you say is correct... you do want your mailserver to
>> resolve with an MX RR that resolves to an A RR, but the hostname
>> doesn't have to be mail, smtp or pop. We just use those to keep track
>> of where our systems are and what they do. :)
>
> Like I say, I'm currently on a dynamic IP, so I'm not even sure that's
> possible. I use Zoneedit.com, which has a field where I can enter a
> mailserver name...is that an MX record?

Yes, or at least, it should be. You would have to ask the folks at
zoneedit about that to be sure. Be careful when messing with dns, you
could literally break something, so it's really valuable to learn.

Those are in the dns resource records for the domain. For bind9, the
entries should be something like
                      MX   mailhost.domain.tld
...
mailhost.domain.tld   A    123.123.123.123
...but if you're not doing your own dns, this is not for you to worry about.

> Sheesh, just when I think I've got a grasp on things, I realize how much
> I have yet to learn...:-P

Oh, that never ends. Just as soon as you have a grasp on a concept, they
go and change the program. :)

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:43:44 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 01 Oct 2003 18:43:44 -0400
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <20031001222945.GK1516-5ttTcWKSjlQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310011709350.10205@xword.rogers.com>
	<20031001222945.GK1516@seahorse>
Message-ID: <lvk77o7f4v.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Andy Jack <f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> writes:
> And what rhymes with "orange" anyway?

'door hinge', if you say it correctly.

Why?
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 22:44:24 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:44:24 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <10492.216.138.194.32.1065047154.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
	<20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
	<20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<10300.216.138.194.32.1065042370.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
	<20031001173954.084c120d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<10492.216.138.194.32.1065047154.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20031001184424.0305ba40.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 18:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Sympatico will not remap your reverse dns as it's all dynamic. They
> would be my 2nd-to-last choice for an ISP for browsing the web, let
> alone trying to run public servers of any type.

You got that right, but since my wife works for Bell...well, we kinda
get a deal on it.

They're upping the price even for employees, though, so we may be
shopping around for another provider. I've seen and heard a lot about
EOL on here, they look like a good choice...if being bought out by
Primus didn't change that, that is.

I'd love to go with Speakeasy, I hear they are very Linux-friendly, I
have yet to check and see if they are available in this area...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can observe a lot just by watching.
		-- Yogi Berra
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From rfk-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 23:21:45 2003
From: rfk-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Robert F. Kennedy)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:21:45 -0400
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.51.0309131807311.20328@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <000101c38872$c7981cf0$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com>

Hello Ralph,

A friend of mine (not in TLUG) told me about istop and their/your 3.5 mg
service. I am glad to see that the company is run by a member of the
group and I look forward to meeting you at the next meeting.

My housemate is not happy with EOL - too much downtime - so we are
looking around for another service. My phone # is 416-538-3904, will we
really be able to get that speed?

Thanks,
Robert

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 23:14:01 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 19:14:01 -0400
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <20031001205818.38540.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F7B5FB9.1000103@rogers.com>

Mel Seder wrote:
> I'd like to try my hand at writing poems.  Is there any Linux programs  
> that I could type a word such as would and the program would return a 
> list that contains should?  

How 'bout  " ? = 2b | !2b "?  ;-)



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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  1 23:29:43 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:29:43 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310011929.44193.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 01 October 2003 15:33, JoeHill wrote:

> now what I do is tell Postfix to relay my mail through Sympatico's smtp
> server, and all is well. But you seem to be saying there is a way I
> could do this by "masquerading"...I'll have to do more reading
> obviously...

Your email program sets the sender email address to joe-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org, it could 
equally well set it to joe-np+G4h7g1y3hvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org  The email would be accepted by your 
local postfix, relayed to sympatico's mailserver and from there it would go 
to where it belongs, everyone happy, no need for masquerading.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 00:02:36 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:02:36 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <200310011929.44193.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310011929.44193.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031001200236.2b6f0ae3.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:29:43 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > now what I do is tell Postfix to relay my mail through Sympatico's
> > smtp server, and all is well. But you seem to be saying there is a
> > way I could do this by "masquerading"...I'll have to do more reading
> > obviously...
> 
> Your email program sets the sender email address to joe-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org,
> it could equally well set it to joe-np+G4h7g1y3hvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org  The email would be
> accepted by your local postfix, relayed to sympatico's mailserver and
> from there it would go to where it belongs, everyone happy, no need
> for masquerading.

I realize that, but in the end I wanted to bypass Sympatico altogether,
have all incoming and outgoing mail processed "inhouse", as it were. I'm
fairly comfortable with Postfix and Procmail, but it's the WAN processes
that I still have not grokked fully, ie. MX records, A records, etc.

I'm pretty sure to do what I want I'll need to switch providers and snag
a static IP, I was just reading below about istop, sounds very
promising...

Thanks!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Happiness isn't something you experience; it's something you remember.
		-- Oscar Levant
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 00:04:25 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:04:25 -0400
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <3F7B5FB9.1000103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
	<3F7B5FB9.1000103@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031001200425.6ec591db.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 19:14:01 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> How 'bout  " ? = 2b | !2b "?  ;-)

Very nice. Now can you take it a bit further? What would be the regexp
for "slings and arrows"?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Depart not from the path which fate has assigned you.
--
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 00:15:21 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:15:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <10244.216.138.194.32.1065041489.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <10244.216.138.194.32.1065041489.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001195738.9835G-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
> > The machine is a Dell XPS B733: Pentium 3, about 3 or 4 years old...
> 
> A quick search through the dell site shows that this system can handle a
> 250GB hard drive.
> http://support.dell.com/us/en/docs/index.asp?cc=7&ct=28

Careful here -- that is the biggest hard drive Dell will sell you *today*,
not the biggest supported on an older system.

I can't find a spec for max hard-drive size for the XPS B___ systems on
their web site.  (I can find the spec sheet for the XPS B___ systems, but
it doesn't discuss this issue.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 00:00:49 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:00:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001200236.2b6f0ae3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
        <20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
        <200310011929.44193.fraser@wehave.net>
        <20031001200236.2b6f0ae3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <10746.216.138.194.32.1065052849.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 19:29:43 -0400
> Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>> > now what I do is tell Postfix to relay my mail through Sympatico's
>> smtp server, and all is well. But you seem to be saying there is a
>> way I could do this by "masquerading"...I'll have to do more reading
>> obviously...
>>
>> Your email program sets the sender email address to joe-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org,
>> it could equally well set it to joe-np+G4h7g1y3hvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org  The email would be
>> accepted by your local postfix, relayed to sympatico's mailserver and
>> from there it would go to where it belongs, everyone happy, no need
>> for masquerading.
>
> I realize that, but in the end I wanted to bypass Sympatico altogether,
> have all incoming and outgoing mail processed "inhouse", as it were. I'm
> fairly comfortable with Postfix and Procmail, but it's the WAN processes
> that I still have not grokked fully, ie. MX records, A records, etc.

There's nothing wrong with sending mail through sympatico. Unless the
reader is a geek and likes to see all the headers, they probably won't
know.

Have you been able to receive the mail so far? I understand they block
port 25 incoming.

> I'm pretty sure to do what I want I'll need to switch providers and snag
> a static IP, I was just reading below about istop, sounds very
> promising...

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 00:26:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:26:15 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <10746.216.138.194.32.1065052849.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310011929.44193.fraser@wehave.net>
	<20031001200236.2b6f0ae3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<10746.216.138.194.32.1065052849.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20031001202615.68fb170a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 20:00:49 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > I realize that, but in the end I wanted to bypass Sympatico
> > altogether, have all incoming and outgoing mail processed "inhouse",
> > as it were. I'm fairly comfortable with Postfix and Procmail, but
> > it's the WAN processes that I still have not grokked fully, ie. MX
> > records, A records, etc.
> 
> There's nothing wrong with sending mail through sympatico. Unless the
> reader is a geek and likes to see all the headers, they probably won't
> know.

Oh, it's not out of vanity (well, okay, maybe a little...), it's more
just to learn and say "I did it."

> Have you been able to receive the mail so far? I understand they block
> port 25 incoming.

Surprisingly, even without Zoneedit's mailforward, mail to my domain
does come to me. However, I only update my IP with Zoneedit once every
hour, so it's possible mail for me could go astray. For now I'll let
sleeping dogs lie til I get a static IP and a provider with some brains.
Then I'll start in with the fun stuff :-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life is the living you do, Death is the living you don't do.
		-- Joseph Pintauro
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 01:09:01 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:09:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001195738.9835G-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <10244.216.138.194.32.1065041489.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001195738.9835G-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <11093.216.138.194.32.1065056941.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
>> > The machine is a Dell XPS B733: Pentium 3, about 3 or 4 years old...
>>
>> A quick search through the dell site shows that this system can handle
>> a 250GB hard drive.
>> http://support.dell.com/us/en/docs/index.asp?cc=7&ct=28
>
> Careful here -- that is the biggest hard drive Dell will sell you
> *today*, not the biggest supported on an older system.
>
> I can't find a spec for max hard-drive size for the XPS B___ systems on
> their web site.  (I can find the spec sheet for the XPS B___ systems,
> but it doesn't discuss this issue.)

I got there through choosing Dimension Desktops (and damned if I could
find it again). Maybe a question to ask Dell, but I'm curious.


-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 01:43:13 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:43:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: high speed DSL connectivity
In-Reply-To: <000101c38872$c7981cf0$1902a8c0-B7WYQ2cLakwWhyVFc8JwjA@public.gmane.org>
References: <000101c38872$c7981cf0$1902a8c0@coilnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012141380.22891@ns.istop.com>

I doubt you'll see me at the next meeting; I live in the Ottawa area and
have only even made it to 2 OCLUG meetings.

As for speeds, if your loop is < 3km long you can count on getting full
synch (3488/800kbps).

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Robert F. Kennedy wrote:

> Hello Ralph,
>
> A friend of mine (not in TLUG) told me about istop and their/your 3.5 mg
> service. I am glad to see that the company is run by a member of the
> group and I look forward to meeting you at the next meeting.
>
> My housemate is not happy with EOL - too much downtime - so we are
> looking around for another service. My phone # is 416-538-3904, will we
> really be able to get that speed?
>
> Thanks,
> Robert
>
> --
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>
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 03:01:38 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:01:38 -0400
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001200236.2b6f0ae3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <200310011929.44193.fraser@wehave.net> <20031001200236.2b6f0ae3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310012301.38441.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 01 October 2003 20:02, JoeHill wrote:

> I realize that, but in the end I wanted to bypass Sympatico altogether,
> have all incoming and outgoing mail processed "inhouse", as it were. I'm
> fairly comfortable with Postfix and Procmail, but it's the WAN processes
> that I still have not grokked fully, ie. MX records, A records, etc.

I see from a followup email that you've already done this.  I also do it but 
in my case Sympatico has blocked incoming port 25 so I have my go to a colo'd 
server and have that relay my mail to my sympatico connection on port 26 
(using a dyndns.org hostname).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 03:14:58 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 23:14:58 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.58.0310011622250.123280-F3dHBfUJrh+jUqcgrzQxahNFC/4pNH7T@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <1065038383.7941.9.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <Pine.A41.4.58.0310011622250.123280@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>
Message-ID: <1065064498.7941.15.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Well, I don't really want to sound like I am overly endorsing Apacer
because I really don't think it is overly a quality device. With that
preamble, I never had problems mounting it under RH7.3 on several
machines. 

Madison

On Wed, 2003-10-01 at 16:29, Peter M Garfield wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Madison wrote:
> > I have the el-cheapo Apacer brand 64MB stick and though I won't say much
> > for it's quality (I was/am poor so I went cheap) it does work just fine
> > under Linux.
> 
> I also went el-cheapo; my USB flash drive (as I know it) says
> "PowerData" on the front.  I have no problems at home on my Mandrake
> 9.0 system or the Windows XP box at the office.
> 
> However, on my desk at work on an updated Red Hat 7.3 (where I'm not
> root).  On this machine, the USB drive only works on fresh re-boots.
> After some time (and I haven't experimented enough to see what the
> problem is) it will *appear* to work, but then not really write to the
> drive.  If I leave it mounted, the files I've written to /mnt/flash/
> will simply vanish.  On the other hand, if I unmount and remount,
> they're not there.  It's as if the drive is read-only, which it
> isn't.  This quirk aside, this USB keychain drives are marvelous
> things.  I'd still prefer a CD burner in the office, but only just. :)
> 
> Peter
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 03:25:41 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:25:41 -0400
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012018230.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <002701c38894$db6d0c00$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:24 PM
wrote:

> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Wil McGilvery wrote:
>
> > What I am wondering is if anyone on the list knows of a better way to
> > pinpoint the location of a wireless access point.
>
> There would be the trick of making the antenna directive and taking a
> bearing or two. You can do this using yourself (your body) as movable
> attenuator screen. Put the laptop on a non-metallic desk and slowly walk
> around the desk while keeping fairly close to the laptop. When the
> fieldstrength indicator dips you are cutting the main vector that ties the
> laptop to the transmitter. Keep in mind that there will be reflected paths
> too so there will be several dips. The biggest one is the one you are
> looking for.

A directional antenna would likely be the easiest route in this sort of
case, it isn't the only way to attack the problem. There is what is known as
time domain direction finding, where one has several non-directional
antennas and then one compares when the signal arrives at the different
antennas (i.e.: the first antenna to get the signal is the closest and which
antenna gets the signal second will help refine the direction, etc...). The
good thing about time domain direction finding is that it is fast, it can
determine the position of a transmitter in effectively no time since it
doesn't have to shift a directional antenna around. The bad news is time
domain direction finding is a complex pain to set-up (not an issue for hams
who have made direction finding part of their hobby, nor is it an issue for
the military, where speed in locating of a transmitter can be an issue of
life and death...).

Colin McGregor - VE3ZAA

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 03:29:09 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 23:29:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <1065038282.7941.6.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
 <1065038282.7941.6.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012326250.24205@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Madison Kelly wrote:

> Owning an 80GB at the largest I don't have personal experience with
> pushing beyond the BIOS' 128GB limit that Henry spoke about (though I
> knew it exists) however I have in the past accessed and mounted drives
> not seen by the system BIOS... I know a while back when the 8GB limit
> was the issue (and later with the 32GB limit) there where custom boot
> loaders (or such) included with the drives called Disk Drive Overlay
> (DDO) utilities. These allowed you to surpas BIOS limits and the method
> these appas used may be the same methods Linux uses (accessing the
> drives around the BIOS).

Indeed.  Since Linux doesn't really use the bios except to get into about
devices (for the most part) it is possible to pass info to the OS to tell
it to use devices what the hardware is having trouble seeing.  This is how
people got around both the 8GB & 32GB disk problems.

I'm not sure if this will also work for a problem related to >128GB
drives, but the original poster could look into the use of disktab to pass
info about drives to the OS.  IIRC there are also parameters you can pass
to lilo to get it to see drives in a certain way too.  Been ages since
I've had to mess with that stuff though.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 04:01:49 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:01:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012326250.24205-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012326250.24205@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001235529.13806A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> Indeed.  Since Linux doesn't really use the bios except to get into about
> devices (for the most part) it is possible to pass info to the OS to tell
> it to use devices what the hardware is having trouble seeing...
> I'm not sure if this will also work for a problem related to >128GB
> drives, but the original poster could look into the use of disktab...

My understanding is that it won't work, alas:  there are small but real
hardware differences between an IDE controller that supports >128GB and
one that doesn't, and there is no practical software workaround.

The earlier limits were BIOS stupidities that prevented recognition of
perfectly usable hardware.  This one is much more fundamental -- a real,
honest-to-god hardware limit.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 04:21:50 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:21:50 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
Message-ID: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450>

  Hopefully I'll outgrow this status in few weeks.  Questions...

1) Help... No X-Windowing!  The startx command gets a response...
/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: /usr/bin/X11/X: no such file or directory
The config file is there, but no X.

2) What is the command for starting/stopping services that's equivalant
to Redhat's "service iptables start" or "service syslog stop", etc ?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 04:38:59 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 00:38:59 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031002042150.GA19923-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450>
Message-ID: <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com>

waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
>   Hopefully I'll outgrow this status in few weeks.  Questions...
> 
> 1) Help... No X-Windowing!  The startx command gets a response...
> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: /usr/bin/X11/X: no such file or directory
> The config file is there, but no X.
Try to execute the following:
dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86

> 
> 2) What is the command for starting/stopping services that's equivalant
> to Redhat's "service iptables start" or "service syslog stop", etc ?
> 
/etc/init.d/service start

And `update-rc.d` as an equivalent for chkconfig.

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From mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 04:41:28 2003
From: mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:41:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>

> Depends on how you define unix :)  These days the Internet
> basically runs
> on Cisco boxes.  Cisco's OS is called IOS and is infact a cut down
> version
> of unix (BSD flavour I think).  I don't really think of it as a
> unix
> anymore though as it is quite divergent.  Once apon a time before
> there
> were dedicated routers almost all routing was done through unix
> boxes.

Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
my own experience suggests that the servers not the routers run the
Internet - I know it sounds odd but that seems to be the convention.
(I may be wrong on that point.)

Now as for IOS... okay yes Cisco boxes run IOS, which is a big bad
ugly name (bad and ugly because it does not really describe what IOS
is) for what is nothing more than a shell that runs on top of QNX.
Basically IOS is what the router administrator uses to modify the
router configuration, for example set up VLANs (it runs on Cisco
switches too) set up routes, change Routing Protocols (not to be
confused with routed protocols), and so on.

The point is IOS is a lot of I (as in Interface) and not really an
OS. So what runs a Cisco router? QNX. QNX is designed to feel like
Unix, but it is NOT Unix. Not by a million miles is QNX even close to
Unix.

You can read tons on QNX at a number of places:

http://www.qnx.com
http://student.math.uwaterloo.ca/~cs452
http://mjc88.0catch.com

Now a little history lesson. In the late 1970s two U of Waterloo
computer science students (a grad student who had a B Sc in Physics -
from UW) and a 4'th year undergrad took a course, CS 452 (Real Time
Programming) anyone here, who took CS at U(W) can tell you about the
infamous "trains course". - You need to build a real time OS that
runs on bare hardware (currently on an i486, back in the 70's it was
something else obviously) then you need to build an application that
talks to a toy train set and makes the trains to amazing things. You
have three months and you can work in teams of one or two, good luck!
- Anyway back in the 70s our heroes took the above course and were so
inspired, delighted, shocked into total insanity, that they decided
to open up a little company in their home town (Ottawa) to sell there
little project which they called QNX.

(I also took CS 452 and that's why a. I know all about this and b.
why I still cower at the sight of toy train sets.)

Now the reason you read my little tale, QNX is based on a CS 452 OS
project, CS 452 was the brain child of a PhD student who had this
nifty idea: "why not strip everything you don't totally need out of
the OS kernel and use IPC to do everything the kernel traditionally
does." In other-words, why not make a Micro kernel, and use special
mechanism for IPC, the special mechanisms are called kernel
primitives, and there are three:

int send(void * pid, void * msg, int length);
int receive(void * msg, void * senderPID);
reply(void * msg, int length);

(Its been a while, I may have the syntax wrong, sorry.)

Now you build these synchronous kernel primitives and then you build
yourself serial servers, keyboard servers, video servers and you have
yourself an OS which you can sell to Cisco systems and make your
millions.

Now why would Cisco want a micro kernel instead of a monolithic? Well
for one thing Micro Kernels service interrupts really really fast,
for another thing, it is much easier to assert that QNX will really
be hard real time than say RT Linux.

Where can I take a course as interesting and exciting as CS 452? (If
you really want to know the answer to that question you probably
ought to turn yourself in to the Queen Street mental health unit,
otherwise if you really want to know the answer go take CS 452 at
U(W).)


Anyway if you have further questions, try one of the above web sites.

Michael

Oh almost forgot, on an unrelated aside, Cisco started as a husband
and wife team in their living room, financed by credit cards, they
sold routers and moon lighted as consultants. :-)

______________________________________________________________________ 
Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 04:58:33 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:58:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7BABE3.6050408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310020057550.24205@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Ilya Palagin wrote:

> /etc/init.d/service start

This is the standard way to start & stop services on anything with SysV
init scripts too.  So this will also work on RH, and will work on Solaris
as well, etc.

Rob

-- 
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Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 05:13:13 2003
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 01:13:13 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
In-Reply-To: <20031002044128.98966.qmail-PWLo2YT7OO6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F7B7BA9.27836.1DCED957@localhost>

> 
> Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally

I don't know why that phrase inspired me, but it did. I began imagining that 
this would be exactly the kind of phrase a person would utter in sentences from 
time to time when their brain is not engaged, as if the Internet has no 
existence independent of the computer.

To salesman: "Does this computer run the Internet"?
To tech support: "The internet stopped running, and I don't know why."
Student to teacher (brightly): "The internet is run using Internet Explorer."

=========================================================
Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 08:14:32 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (teddymills)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 04:14:32 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F7B7BA9.27836.1DCED957@localhost>
Message-ID: <000701c388bd$384e7c10$0200a8c0@viper>


I say "Does this computer have internet access?"
You say potato, I say potatoe. I dont worry much about semantics.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul King" <pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:13 AM
Subject: [TLUG]: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms


> >
> > Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
>
> I don't know why that phrase inspired me, but it did. I began imagining
that
> this would be exactly the kind of phrase a person would utter in sentences
from
> time to time when their brain is not engaged, as if the Internet has no
> existence independent of the computer.
>
> To salesman: "Does this computer run the Internet"?
> To tech support: "The internet stopped running, and I don't know why."
> Student to teacher (brightly): "The internet is run using Internet
Explorer."
>
> =========================================================
> Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 08:28:15 2003
From: dt-hKuJ9UrQZDM at public.gmane.org (David Tilbrook)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 04:28:15 -0400
Subject: URL's for PDF or PS files that work
Message-ID: <3F7BE19F.31AA82BF@qef.com>

I'm having troubles getting URLs that reference
PDF or PS files on Windows.  They work on non-windows
systems.

It appears relative addressing doesn't work for non-html
URLs on windows.

Problem is that within a html page I want to point to
a document in docs/X.pdf.

I've tried a number of forms but none appear to work.
In fact that ones that appear to get close hand the system.

Any ideas or suggestions?

-- dt
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 10:31:38 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:31:38 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031002042150.GA19923-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450>
Message-ID: <20031002063138.124925da.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:21:50 -0400
waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org uttered:

> 1) Help... No X-Windowing!  The startx command gets a response...
> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: /usr/bin/X11/X: no such file or
> directory The config file is there, but no X.

what does it say in xserverrc, and is it executable?

one thing you can do to override that config file is to create a file in
your home dir called .xinitrc, and in there put the window manager or
desktop you want to start, for example:

exex gnome-session

or 

exec blackbox

depending on what you have installed and how light or heavy you want
your desktop to be.

again, make sure it is executable by:

chmod +x .xinitrc

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Death is Nature's way of recycling human beings.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 10:44:45 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 06:44:45 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031002044128.98966.qmail-PWLo2YT7OO6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
	<20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031002064445.58e949b1.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 00:41:28 -0400 (EDT)
Michael <mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Now a little history lesson.

Thanks! That was a brilliant read with my morning coffee(s). I never
thought such an innocuous phrase, which I intended to be very vague
anyway, would get me such an injection of specificity!

In the letter I wrote to the editor at the NYT, I really just wanted to
point out that the Internet survives and thrives on platforms other than
MS, in fact *despite* the huge deployment of MS desktops with their
built-in virus-spreaders.

People have this idea, as is mentioned below, that the "Web", the
"Internet" and Internet Explorer are all the same thing. I try to
explain it to them, but their eyes just glaze over...

"....right, soooo, how do get the web to work...?"

oh, fsck, just click on that blue "E"...:-P

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If little green men land in your back yard, hide any little green women
you've got in the house.
		-- Mike Harding, "The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac"
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 13:08:56 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:08:56 -0400
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E2831911B@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

>"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> on Wednesday, October 01, 2003 1:24
PM
>wrote:

>> On Tue, 30 Sep 2003, Wil McGilvery wrote:
>>
>> > What I am wondering is if anyone on the list knows of a better way
to
>> > pinpoint the location of a wireless access point.
>>
>> There would be the trick of making the antenna directive and taking a
>> bearing or two. You can do this using yourself (your body) as movable
>> attenuator screen. Put the laptop on a non-metallic desk and slowly
walk
>> around the desk while keeping fairly close to the laptop. When the
>> fieldstrength indicator dips you are cutting the main vector that
ties >> >> the
>> laptop to the transmitter. Keep in mind that there will be reflected
>>  >> paths
>> too so there will be several dips. The biggest one is the one you are
>> looking for.

>A directional antenna would likely be the easiest route in this sort of
>case, it isn't the only way to attack the problem. There is what is
known >as
>time domain direction finding, where one has several non-directional
>antennas and then one compares when the signal arrives at the different
>antennas (i.e.: the first antenna to get the signal is the closest and
>which
>antenna gets the signal second will help refine the direction, etc...).
The
>good thing about time domain direction finding is that it is fast, it
can
>determine the position of a transmitter in effectively no time since it
>doesn't have to shift a directional antenna around. The bad news is
time
>domain direction finding is a complex pain to set-up (not an issue for
hams
>who have made direction finding part of their hobby, nor is it an issue
for
>the military, where speed in locating of a transmitter can be an issue
of
>life and death...).

>Colin McGregor - VE3ZAA

Sheesh! Ask a simple question and get all kinds of answers! 

Thanks for the info, it is always good to know. I have another question.
Is there a way to do this with GPS? If am receiving the signal on a
laptop with GPS, could I locate the signal or would I only be able to
locate myself?

(can you tell I don't know much about wireless?)

Thanks,

Wil
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 12:13:20 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:13:20 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031002042150.GA19923-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450>
Message-ID: <200310020813.20413.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 02 October 2003 00:21, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
>   Hopefully I'll outgrow this status in few weeks.  Questions...
>
> 1) Help... No X-Windowing!  The startx command gets a response...
> /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: /usr/bin/X11/X: no such file or
> directory The config file is there, but no X.

Sounds like you need to "apt-get install xserver-xfree86"

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 12:30:49 2003
From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 08:30:49 -0400
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001145812.7495A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031001145812.7495A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <416F535E-F4D4-11D7-BF20-00039310151E@axxent.ca>

On Wednesday, October 1, 2003, at 03:16 PM, Henry Spencer wrote:

> "ATA-33", "ATA-133", etc., are about the ATA transfer speed.  That is 
> not
> a compatibility worry, because it's pretty much all 
> backward-compatible:
> an old controller talking to a new drive won't get the higher speed 
> that
> the new drive is capable of, but it *will* cope.

That's the paragraph I wanted to see!  Thank you.  (So the comment 
about limited backward compatibility -- for 40GB only -- was just 
noise, I can assume?)

> The problem with really big drives is that the old IDE standard simply 
> did
> not envision drives bigger than 128GB -- it runs out of bits in its 
> block
> numbers.

Therefore dropping in a current-model 80GB should pose no mismatch-type 
problems.


In reference to some of the other discussion....  I have the system 
manual and specifications that came with the machine and it mentions 
very little about the EIDE interface, just the ATA-33 thing, some about 
the physical connections, and nothing about size limits.  The primary 
hard drive identifies on boot as a Quantum Fireball LM30.0.  (I've 
typically had good luck with Quantum or IBM drives in my Macs.)

Thanks to all for the comments.

........................
Phillip Mills
Multi-platform software development
(416) 224-0714

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 19:05:08 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:05:08 -0400
Subject: SQL Queries....
Message-ID: <3F7C76E4.90000@alteeve.com>

I've been working with some SQL driven sights. Mostly Postgres and some 
MySQL, However I've never had to do this before:

Does anyone know how to select only records that start with a certain 
letter?

I can easly select records that contain the letter and order them 
properly, but that dosn't help much. :(

Thanks in advance,

Lance Squire

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 15:39:45 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:39:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <416F535E-F4D4-11D7-BF20-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <416F535E-F4D4-11D7-BF20-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031002113422.21619A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Phillip Mills wrote:
> > "ATA-33", "ATA-133", etc., are about the ATA transfer speed.  That is 
> > not a compatibility worry...
> 
> That's the paragraph I wanted to see!  Thank you.  (So the comment 
> about limited backward compatibility -- for 40GB only -- was just 
> noise, I can assume?)

I would think so, yes.  (Heaven knows, it's hard to be sure sometimes...
Just when you think the PC world cannot possibly perpetrate any hardware
stupidity worse than it has already done...)

> > The problem with really big drives is that the old IDE standard simply 
> > did not envision drives bigger than 128GB...
> 
> Therefore dropping in a current-model 80GB should pose no mismatch-type 
> problems.

Shouldn't, no.  I've never heard of a 64GB problem with BIOSes etc.

> In reference to some of the other discussion....  I have the system 
> manual and specifications that came with the machine and it mentions 
> very little about the EIDE interface, just the ATA-33 thing, some about 
> the physical connections, and nothing about size limits.

Yeah, they're not really communicative about this sort of thing. :-)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 19:15:14 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:15:14 -0400
Subject: SQL Queries Found!
Message-ID: <3F7C7942.9020601@alteeve.com>

Never mind! I finaly found a document that helped.

SQL uses '%' for wild cards rather than '*'

Lance

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 14:15:12 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:15:12 -0400
Subject: USB Memory 'stick' recommendation
In-Reply-To: <1065064498.7941.15.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031001145127.009e7020@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <Pine.A41.4.58.0310011622250.123280@coxeter.math.toronto.edu> <1065064498.7941.15.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310021015.12939.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 01 October 2003 23:14, Madison Kelly wrote:

> Well, I don't really want to sound like I am overly endorsing Apacer
> because I really don't think it is overly a quality device. With that
> preamble, I never had problems mounting it under RH7.3 on several
> machines.

An alternative is compact flash.  Compact flash USB readers can be had for 
$20, my 128 compact flash card cost $60.  So for $80 I have 128MB of portable 
storage, those costs should be lower now.  Compact flash cards can be used 
with digital cameras, with a $40 adaptor you can treat them as a regular IDE 
hard drive (not that you'd want to use it for a lot of writes) ... my compact 
flash card is now hosting my firewall (LEAF).  CF cards can also be up to 4GB 
now I think.

One obvious disadvantage of CF is that the USB readers are bulkier than the 
pen drives.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 15:14:29 2003
From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:14:29 -0400
Subject: what program accesses a file?
Message-ID: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>

Is there a utility that can report on what is accessing a file like
/dev/ttyS0 ?

Recently that serial port has become unusable because something is
transmitting as seen by:
  cat /proc/tty/driver 

Also carefully watching file info using "mc" the Modify time is being
changed but the Access time is remaining the same.

I cannot figure out what process is using that port.

I have a Debian system that was recently fiddled with. Starting with a
Knoppix boot CD proves that the physical port is good.

TIA!

-- 
Anthony
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 20:46:26 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:46:26 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
Message-ID: <1065127585.11802.3.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Hi all,

  I have setup on my system Win2k, RH9.0 and Mandrake 9.1 (installed in
the order). Now I am currently booting with the Mandrake-installed boot
loader but I want to switch back to the vanilla (or Redhat) version of
lilo. Can someone tell me how to do this? When I try typing '# lilo'
after updating '/etc/lilo.conf' (from RH9) I get this error:

Fatal: /boot/message is too big (> 65535 bytes)

  Thanks for any help!

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 19:00:47 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 15:00:47 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031002044128.98966.qmail-PWLo2YT7OO6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031002190042.GP13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:41:28AM -0400, Michael wrote:
> Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
> my own experience suggests that the servers not the routers run the
> Internet - I know it sounds odd but that seems to be the convention.
> (I may be wrong on that point.)
> 
> Now as for IOS... okay yes Cisco boxes run IOS, which is a big bad
> ugly name (bad and ugly because it does not really describe what IOS
> is) for what is nothing more than a shell that runs on top of QNX.
> Basically IOS is what the router administrator uses to modify the
> router configuration, for example set up VLANs (it runs on Cisco
> switches too) set up routes, change Routing Protocols (not to be
> confused with routed protocols), and so on.
> 
> The point is IOS is a lot of I (as in Interface) and not really an
> OS. So what runs a Cisco router? QNX. QNX is designed to feel like
> Unix, but it is NOT Unix. Not by a million miles is QNX even close to
> Unix.

I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I actually
find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs on non
x86 hardware, and I don't think Cisco uses x86 hardware.  I have only so
far found a reference mentioning Cisco was considering putting a real
time OS into IOS, but that they hadn't done so yet (as of 2002 it would
appear).  I suppose QNX would have added more types of hardware by now
though.

> You can read tons on QNX at a number of places:
> 
> http://www.qnx.com
> http://student.math.uwaterloo.ca/~cs452
> http://mjc88.0catch.com
> 
> Now a little history lesson. In the late 1970s two U of Waterloo
> computer science students (a grad student who had a B Sc in Physics -
> from UW) and a 4'th year undergrad took a course, CS 452 (Real Time
> Programming) anyone here, who took CS at U(W) can tell you about the
> infamous "trains course". - You need to build a real time OS that
> runs on bare hardware (currently on an i486, back in the 70's it was
> something else obviously) then you need to build an application that
> talks to a toy train set and makes the trains to amazing things. You
> have three months and you can work in teams of one or two, good luck!
> - Anyway back in the 70s our heroes took the above course and were so
> inspired, delighted, shocked into total insanity, that they decided
> to open up a little company in their home town (Ottawa) to sell there
> little project which they called QNX.
> 
> (I also took CS 452 and that's why a. I know all about this and b.
> why I still cower at the sight of toy train sets.)
> 
> Now the reason you read my little tale, QNX is based on a CS 452 OS
> project, CS 452 was the brain child of a PhD student who had this
> nifty idea: "why not strip everything you don't totally need out of
> the OS kernel and use IPC to do everything the kernel traditionally
> does." In other-words, why not make a Micro kernel, and use special
> mechanism for IPC, the special mechanisms are called kernel
> primitives, and there are three:
> 
> int send(void * pid, void * msg, int length);
> int receive(void * msg, void * senderPID);
> reply(void * msg, int length);
> 
> (Its been a while, I may have the syntax wrong, sorry.)

It isn't nice to remind people of these things... :)

> Now you build these synchronous kernel primitives and then you build
> yourself serial servers, keyboard servers, video servers and you have
> yourself an OS which you can sell to Cisco systems and make your
> millions.
> 
> Now why would Cisco want a micro kernel instead of a monolithic? Well
> for one thing Micro Kernels service interrupts really really fast,
> for another thing, it is much easier to assert that QNX will really
> be hard real time than say RT Linux.

Which may be why what I found indicates that Cisco is considering doing
it, but it sure looked like they hadn't done so yet.  There does seem to
be some talk of a QNX based IOS sometime this year, but it would be a
new things then.

> Where can I take a course as interesting and exciting as CS 452? (If
> you really want to know the answer to that question you probably
> ought to turn yourself in to the Queen Street mental health unit,
> otherwise if you really want to know the answer go take CS 452 at
> U(W).)

Well at least it was still there last time I stopped by.

Lennart Sorensen
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:28:29 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:28:29 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>

I'm curious. When you are booting 2 different versions of Linux do you have
to install those packages that are common to both distributions twice or can
you share files between the 2 distributions.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Madison Kelly" <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:13 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: LILO Dual boot problem


> Hi all,
>
>   I have setup on my system Win2k, RH9.0 and Mandrake 9.1 (installed in
> the order). Now I am currently booting with the Mandrake-installed boot
> loader but I want to switch back to the vanilla (or Redhat) version of
> lilo. Can someone tell me how to do this? When I try typing '# lilo'
> after updating '/etc/lilo.conf' (from RH9) I get this error:
>
> Fatal: /boot/message is too big (> 65535 bytes)
>
>   Thanks for any help!
>
> PS - I tried sending this to 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' but it seemed to have
> disappeared. Sorry if this later ends up as a dup. :)
> --
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Madison Kelly
> 416-208-0146
> mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:28:37 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:28:37 -0400
Subject: what program accesses a file?
In-Reply-To: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>
Message-ID: <20031002222837.GA2373@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 11:14:29AM -0400, Anthony Tekatch wrote:
> Is there a utility that can report on what is accessing a file like
> /dev/ttyS0 ?
> 
> Recently that serial port has become unusable because something is
> transmitting as seen by:
>   cat /proc/tty/driver 
> 
> Also carefully watching file info using "mc" the Modify time is being
> changed but the Access time is remaining the same.
> 
> I cannot figure out what process is using that port.

man fuser

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:30:44 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 02 Oct 2003 18:30:44 -0400
Subject: SQL Queries Found!
In-Reply-To: <3F7C7942.9020601-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7C7942.9020601@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <lv8yo3clwr.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

"Lance F. Squire" <lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> writes:
> Never mind! I finaly found a document that helped.
> SQL uses '%' for wild cards rather than '*'

I don't know about MySQL but PostgreSQL has full regular expression support
on queries.

HTH,
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:33:47 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:33:47 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0-bDyVNySQBNH9aAI3MaG8BQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
	 <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <1065134027.11802.11.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

I wanted to keep everything seperate so I used unique '/' partitions and
only shared the larger '/home' partition (keeping usernames with the
same uid/gid). I guess it might be possible but I would think that would
be one risky setup and I would want to be -very- sure that I knew what I
was doing.

FWIW, I assigned 4GB to each OS' '/' (I've left space for a third later)
and I haven't had any problems with space. Just remember to install big
programs like UT2k3 on your '/home/user' partition and not in '/usr/'
(if you are bad like me and run as 'root' a lot! ;) ).

Madison

On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 18:28, Jim Ruxton wrote:
> I'm curious. When you are booting 2 different versions of Linux do you have
> to install those packages that are common to both distributions twice or can
> you share files between the 2 distributions.
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Madison Kelly" <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 6:13 PM
> Subject: [TLUG]: LILO Dual boot problem
> 
> 
> > Hi all,
> >
> >   I have setup on my system Win2k, RH9.0 and Mandrake 9.1 (installed in
> > the order). Now I am currently booting with the Mandrake-installed boot
> > loader but I want to switch back to the vanilla (or Redhat) version of
> > lilo. Can someone tell me how to do this? When I try typing '# lilo'
> > after updating '/etc/lilo.conf' (from RH9) I get this error:
> >
> > Fatal: /boot/message is too big (> 65535 bytes)
> >
> >   Thanks for any help!
> >
> > PS - I tried sending this to 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' but it seemed to have
> > disappeared. Sorry if this later ends up as a dup. :)
> > --
> > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> > Madison Kelly
> > 416-208-0146
> > mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> >
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:37:13 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:37:13 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0-bDyVNySQBNH9aAI3MaG8BQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <20031002223713.GA2441@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 06:28:29PM -0400, Jim Ruxton wrote:
> I'm curious. When you are booting 2 different versions of Linux do you have
> to install those packages that are common to both distributions twice or can
> you share files between the 2 distributions.

You should keep them separate, because they are often different version
and configured differently.  But, I suppose some can be shared, ie.
/tmp.


> > Hi all,
> >
> >   I have setup on my system Win2k, RH9.0 and Mandrake 9.1 (installed in
> > the order). Now I am currently booting with the Mandrake-installed boot
> > loader but I want to switch back to the vanilla (or Redhat) version of
> > lilo. Can someone tell me how to do this? When I try typing '# lilo'
> > after updating '/etc/lilo.conf' (from RH9) I get this error:
> >
> > Fatal: /boot/message is too big (> 65535 bytes)

Reduce the size, then. :-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:40:46 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:40:46 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
In-Reply-To: <3F7B7BA9.27836.1DCED957-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <3F7B7BA9.27836.1DCED957@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F7CA96E.3020309@rogers.com>

Paul King wrote:
>>Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
> 
> 
> I don't know why that phrase inspired me, but it did. I began imagining that 
> this would be exactly the kind of phrase a person would utter in sentences from 
> time to time when their brain is not engaged, as if the Internet has no 
> existence independent of the computer.
> 
> To salesman: "Does this computer run the Internet"?
> To tech support: "The internet stopped running, and I don't know why."
> Student to teacher (brightly): "The internet is run using Internet Explorer."

And of course, we all know the internet was invented by Dan Quale!  ;-)



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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 18:36:43 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:36:43 -0400
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca> <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <20031002183642.GO13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 02:52:56PM -0400, Phillip Mills wrote:
> I'm still trying to get enough information to feel comfortable about 
> sticking a second hard drive in my PC with some hope of it working.
> 
> The machine is a Dell XPS B733: Pentium 3, about 3 or 4 years old.  I 
> went shopping yesterday and the first person I talked to who sounded 
> knowledgeable said that a current 40GB drive would *probably* work, but 
> larger ones might not be recognized by the IDE controller.  My user 
> manual says the Dell uses ATA-33 (which I assume matches the 33Mhz PCI 
> bus speed), while current drives all refer to ATA-133.  The 
> salesperson's not-very-reassuring comment was that the 133 drives 
> should be backward compatible to 100...and then I started wondering 
> whether he was talking about RAM speeds instead.
> 
> So, as usual, the more I think about PC hardware, the more confused I 
> become.  I used to run Linux on one of my Macs and I'm having trouble 
> remembering why I switched.  Oh, ya...someone gave me a free Intel box! 
>  :-)
> 
> Anyone willing to share some relevant facts?

Some changes to the ATA spec happend at the 32GB limit, and some older
bioses have trouble with drives larger than that.  Dell was notorious
for having hte problem up until they actually started shipping drives
over 32GB with the machines.

Now there are a few ways to solve the problem:

You can get an add on pci ide controller like a promise ata66, 100 or
133 card, and connect the drive to it, since it has it's own bios and
doesn't confuse the system bios by the drive size.

You can 'clip' the drive, using a utility that should be available from
the drive manufacturer, which makes the drive 'pretend' to only be 32GB,
allowing the system to boot, after which a utility or driver in the OS
can discover the fact the drive is clipped and work around it.  This
does give a boot limit of 32GB, similar to the old 8GB limit, the 2GB
limit, the 512MB limit, etc.  Linux kernels have supported the cliping
option for some time now.

Hope that helps.

Drives over 137GB of course must use an ata133 controller with LBA48bit
addressing.

Lennart Sorensen
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 15:54:01 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:54:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: URL's for PDF or PS files that work
In-Reply-To: <3F7BE19F.31AA82BF-hKuJ9UrQZDM@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7BE19F.31AA82BF@qef.com>
Message-ID: <11785.216.138.194.32.1065110041.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I'm having troubles getting URLs that reference
> PDF or PS files on Windows.  They work on non-windows
> systems.
>
> It appears relative addressing doesn't work for non-html
> URLs on windows.
>
> Problem is that within a html page I want to point to
> a document in docs/X.pdf.
>
> I've tried a number of forms but none appear to work.
> In fact that ones that appear to get close hand the system.

It should work with just href tags <a href="docs/X.pdf">link</a>

There is a pdf reader installed on the client system, right?

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:45:40 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:45:40 -0400
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E2831911B-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E2831911B@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <3F7CAA94.6040206@rogers.com>

Wil McGilvery wrote:
> 
> Sheesh! Ask a simple question and get all kinds of answers! 
> 
> Thanks for the info, it is always good to know. I have another question.
> Is there a way to do this with GPS? If am receiving the signal on a
> laptop with GPS, could I locate the signal or would I only be able to
> locate myself?
> 
> (can you tell I don't know much about wireless?)
> 

A GPS will only locate itself.  If you're holding the GPS, you'll have a 
fairly good idea about where you are.

With a couple of GPS receivers and a means of determining direction to 
the signal source and the other GPS, you could alway apply a bit of trig 
to calculate the location of the signal source.

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:13:58 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:13:58 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
Message-ID: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Hi all,

  I have setup on my system Win2k, RH9.0 and Mandrake 9.1 (installed in
the order). Now I am currently booting with the Mandrake-installed boot
loader but I want to switch back to the vanilla (or Redhat) version of
lilo. Can someone tell me how to do this? When I try typing '# lilo'
after updating '/etc/lilo.conf' (from RH9) I get this error:

Fatal: /boot/message is too big (> 65535 bytes)

  Thanks for any help!

PS - I tried sending this to 'tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org' but it seemed to have
disappeared. Sorry if this later ends up as a dup. :)
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

--
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From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:51:32 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:51:32 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
Message-ID: <Law14-F91VKW447p9NB0000516e@hotmail.com>

"I hear they've got the internet on computers now"

-Bart Simpson



-Hugh
_______________________________________________
Hugh Reilly
XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab
600 Bay Street, Suite 405
Toronto ON  M5R 1G6
tel: 416-204-9951
fax: 416-204-9723
email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
_______________________________________________
http://www.xen.ca  |  http://www.linuxlab.ca





>From: James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
>Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:40:46 -0400
>
>Paul King wrote:
>>>Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
>>
>>
>>I don't know why that phrase inspired me, but it did. I began imagining 
>>that this would be exactly the kind of phrase a person would utter in 
>>sentences from time to time when their brain is not engaged, as if the 
>>Internet has no existence independent of the computer.
>>
>>To salesman: "Does this computer run the Internet"?
>>To tech support: "The internet stopped running, and I don't know why."
>>Student to teacher (brightly): "The internet is run using Internet 
>>Explorer."
>
>And of course, we all know the internet was invented by Dan Quale!  ;-)
>
>
>
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>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 23:20:20 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:20:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0-bDyVNySQBNH9aAI3MaG8BQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> I'm curious. When you are booting 2 different versions of Linux do you
> have to install those packages that are common to both distributions
> twice or can you share files between the 2 distributions.

You'll want to keep the 2 seperate, but you can share $UERSPACE, such as
/home, /tmp, and swap space. One of the problems with sharing apps is in
the libs and where different distros install user files.




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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 23:43:21 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 19:43:21 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>        <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop> <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>

Thanks everyone for giving some ideas on how to do this.

>You'll want to keep the 2 seperate, but you can share $UERSPACE, such as
>/home, /tmp, and swap space.

Ok so does this mean that you would set up a partition for each distribution
plus a partition for /home and /tmp, and another for the swap space?

Jim


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From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 22:03:31 2003
From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:03:31 -0400
Subject: Trouble using e-macs remotely
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0309241136090.2225287-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0310021753120.3365891-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>


Hello All,

I was wondering if anyone has seen this problem before or has any
suggestions:

I'm trying to edit a file on a remote machine (running redhat) using emacs
after logging in via ssh from fvmr xwindow on Debian.

The problem is when I emacs the file I get a bunch of ping like sounds
without like the one below that just keeps going on and on.  (Using a
non-Xwindows terminal I don't get this problems, but that's a lot less
convenient)

;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2\
c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;\
2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1\
;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c\
1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2\
c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;\
2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1

Has anyone else run into this?  Does anyone know of any simple
solutions or work arounds?

Alex





------------
Alex Maynard
Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
University of Toronto
150 St. George St., N304
Toronto ON M5S 3G7
Canada
e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org
tel: (416) 978-4358


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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 00:48:00 2003
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:48:00 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
In-Reply-To: <000701c388bd$384e7c10$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <000701c388bd$384e7c10$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <3F7C8F00.19734.2202657A@localhost>

> 
> I say "Does this computer have internet access?"

Oh, but that's boring (because it happens to be a correct statement). 

But I just wonder how many people "out there" (hand-wavy guesture toward the 
window) think that the internet just vanishes when they switch off the power 
button.

> You say potato, I say potatoe. I dont worry much about semantics.
> 

Many people don't, but I know a lot of people with utterly limited 'net savvy 
that would believe "running the internet" to be a literally true phrase. That 
is, the internet is something you "run" on your computer. No concept of 
networking. Or applications. Or operating systems. The computer is just an 
appliance to them like a toaster. You click on that cute little "e" picture on 
the side of the screen, you get the internet. Like when you put bread in the 
rectangular holes and press the handle thingy, you get toast.

Paul

> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul King" <pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 1:13 AM
> Subject: [TLUG]: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
> 
> 
> > >
> > > Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
> >
> > I don't know why that phrase inspired me, but it did. I began imagining
> that
> > this would be exactly the kind of phrase a person would utter in sentences
> from
> > time to time when their brain is not engaged, as if the Internet has no
> > existence independent of the computer.
> >
> > To salesman: "Does this computer run the Internet"?
> > To tech support: "The internet stopped running, and I don't know why."
> > Student to teacher (brightly): "The internet is run using Internet
> Explorer."
> >
> > =========================================================
> > Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/
> >
> >
=========================================================
Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/


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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 00:45:06 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:45:06 -0400
Subject: Open source comes to car parts
Message-ID: <00b801c38947$972ba890$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>

What a great idea...
http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15200878
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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 00:56:30 2003
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:56:30 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
In-Reply-To: <3F7CA96E.3020309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7B7BA9.27836.1DCED957@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F7C90FE.9021.220A2FA2@localhost>

> Paul King wrote:
> >>Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
> > 
> > 
> > I don't know why that phrase inspired me, but it did. I began imagining that
> > this would be exactly the kind of phrase a person would utter in sentences
> > from time to time when their brain is not engaged, as if the Internet has no
> > existence independent of the computer.
> > 
> > To salesman: "Does this computer run the Internet"?
> > To tech support: "The internet stopped running, and I don't know why."
> > Student to teacher (brightly): "The internet is run using Internet Explorer."
> 
> And of course, we all know the internet was invented by Dan Quale!  ;-)

Ohmigod! I thought it was invented by Bill Gates! Isn't that letter "e" on the 
side of the MS Windows screen the secret behind it all?
=========================================================
Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/


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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 01:04:36 2003
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:04:36 -0400
Subject: [OT]: Dial-up Connection
References: <3F1D7936.7226.9AC2E2F@localhost>        <200307222033.05997.fraser@wehave.net>        <1611004494.20030723130511@istop.com> <64577.64.228.103.175.1058979881.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <009601c3894a$5091e630$4127fea9@middleearth.quadratic.net>

check out:

www.canadianisp.ca

It might point you in the right direction.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2003 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: [OT]: Dial-up Connection


>
> > Anyone can suggest a good and stable dial-up provider that is in
> > either Mississauga or Toronto local area. All, we need a dial-up
> > connection without web site/e-mail services. Thanks!
>
> For nothing-else I would suggest sympatico. The price is okay, the service
> is reasonable. Also check out toronto free net if price is an issue.
>
> -- 
> Keith Mastin
> BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> Toronto, Canada
> (416)696 6070
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 01:10:06 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:10:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Trouble using e-macs remotely
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0310021753120.3365891-100000-r4Dc/k3puymKslEPh711t54VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0310021753120.3365891-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022107530.10205@xword.rogers.com>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Alex Maynard wrote:

> I was wondering if anyone has seen this problem before or has any
> suggestions:
>
> I'm trying to edit a file on a remote machine (running redhat) using emacs
> after logging in via ssh from fvmr xwindow on Debian.
>
> The problem is when I emacs the file I get a bunch of ping like sounds
> without like the one below that just keeps going on and on.  (Using a
> non-Xwindows terminal I don't get this problems, but that's a lot less
> convenient)
>
> ;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2\
> c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;\
> 2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1\
> ;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c\
> 1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2\
> c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;\
> 2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1
>
> Has anyone else run into this?  Does anyone know of any simple
> solutions or work arounds?

      It's probably an incorrect TERM setting.

      What are you using?

      Try: xterm, vt100, ansi, linux; one of them should work.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 00:59:04 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:59:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0-bDyVNySQBNH9aAI3MaG8BQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
        <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> Thanks everyone for giving some ideas on how to do this.
>
>>You'll want to keep the 2 seperate, but you can share $UERSPACE, such
>> as /home, /tmp, and swap space.
>
> Ok so does this mean that you would set up a partition for each
> distribution plus a partition for /home and /tmp, and another for the
> swap space?

mmmm... using FreeBSD -style partitions and slices, I would say yes, but
with linux I would say use dedicated hard drives per distro. Otherwise,
there are naming problems (both systems need independant / filesystems,
etc.).

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 01:25:38 2003
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:25:38 -0400
Subject: bash coding: question
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0308020016300.1904@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <00e201c3894d$40bafff0$4127fea9@middleearth.quadratic.net>

This is done much more eloquently with sed:

######### begin Template ##############

FROM THE DESK OF:

@SALUTATION@ @FNAME@ @LNAME@
@RESPECTABLEBUSINESSNAME@
@AFRICANCOUNTRY@

Dear @VICTIM@,


I am @SAL@ @FNAME@ @LNAME@, of @RESPECTABLEBUSINESSNAME@ I have an
urgent and very confidential business proposition for you.

...

######### end Template ##############

populate_bash_vars();

exec sed \
-e "s/@SALUTATION@/$SALUTATION/g" \
-e "s/@FNAME@/$FNAME/g" \
-e "s/@LNAME@/$LNAME/g" \
-e "s/@RESPECTABLEBUSINESSNAME@/$RESPECTABLEBUSINESSNAME/g" \
-e "s/@AFRICANCOUNTRY@/$AFRICANCOUNTRY/g" \
-e "s/@VICTIM@/$VICTIM/g" \
< template | mail -s "an Urgent Matter!" $VICTIMEMAIL

hmm I take that back...

that was not eloquently.

david

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org>
To: "TLUG" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, August 01, 2003 5:34 PM
Subject: [TLUG]: bash coding: question


>
> Hi,
>
> I am trying to do something impossible (apparently) using bash. I need to
> substitute $var which appears in a file, while using it in a script. I
> have:
>
> > var=1
> > cat file
> This is $var
> > T=`cat $file`
> > echo $T
> This is $var
> > echo `echo $T`
> This is $var
> > echo $var
> 1
>
> How do I make it expand $var ?! I tried just about everything. Admittedly,
> this is a safety feature, but i want to substitute it anyway. I could use
> sed but that is not so nice (there are 1/2 dozen vars to substitute). Any
> ideas ? Besides using Perl instead ?
>
> tia,
>
> Peter
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 01:55:14 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 21:55:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031002044128.98966.qmail-PWLo2YT7OO6A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022133500.32647@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Michael wrote:

> Now as for IOS... okay yes Cisco boxes run IOS, which is a big bad
> ugly name (bad and ugly because it does not really describe what IOS
> is) for what is nothing more than a shell that runs on top of QNX.

Hi Michael.  Can you provide references for this?  I've long believed that
IOS was a derivative of BSD unix.  I've just RTFMed on it and to be honest
haven't found any evidence either way.

On a different topic, I played with QNX a bit some years ago but hadn't
looked at it in ages.  I just took the time to come up to speed a bit on
developments in the QNX world and there have been quite a few.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 02:02:17 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 02 Oct 2003 22:02:17 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
In-Reply-To: <3F7CA96E.3020309-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
	<3F7B7BA9.27836.1DCED957@localhost> <3F7CA96E.3020309@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <lty8w33wpi.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> writes:

> Paul King wrote:
> >>Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
> > I don't know why that phrase inspired me, but it did. I began imagining
> > that this would be exactly the kind of phrase a person would utter in
> > sentences from time to time when their brain is not engaged, as if the
> > Internet has no existence independent of the computer.
> 
> > To salesman: "Does this computer run the Internet"?
> 
> > To tech support: "The internet stopped running, and I don't know why."
> > Student to teacher (brightly): "The internet is run using Internet Explorer."
> 
> And of course, we all know the internet was invented by Dan Quale!  ;-)

No, it was Al Gore.  Dan Quayle invented the potatoe. ;-)

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 02:07:30 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 02 Oct 2003 22:07:30 -0400
Subject: what program accesses a file?
In-Reply-To: <20031002222837.GA2373-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>
	<20031002222837.GA2373@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <ltu16r3wgt.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> writes:

> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 11:14:29AM -0400, Anthony Tekatch wrote:
> > Is there a utility that can report on what is accessing a file like
> > /dev/ttyS0 ?
> > 
> > Recently that serial port has become unusable because something is
> > transmitting as seen by:
> >   cat /proc/tty/driver 
> > 
> > Also carefully watching file info using "mc" the Modify time is being
> > changed but the Access time is remaining the same.
> > 
> > I cannot figure out what process is using that port.
> 
> man fuser

Or try lsof.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 02:58:28 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:58:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>       
     <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>       
     <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>     
       <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0@jimslaptop> 
     <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <2104.24.192.219.224.1065149908.squirrel@host.bettermarkets.com>

>
>> Thanks everyone for giving some ideas on how to do this.
>>
>>>You'll want to keep the 2 seperate, but you can share $UERSPACE, such
>>> as /home, /tmp, and swap space.
>>
>> Ok so does this mean that you would set up a partition for each
>> distribution plus a partition for /home and /tmp, and another for the
>> swap space?
>
> mmmm... using FreeBSD -style partitions and slices, I would say yes, but
> with linux I would say use dedicated hard drives per distro. Otherwise,
> there are naming problems (both systems need independant / filesystems,
> etc.).

Hey Kieth,

  This actually isn't a problem because one distro will see '/dev/hdaX' as
'/' for it's install while the other will see '/dev/hdaY' as it's '/'
partition.

BTW - My questions has seemed to have gone off on a tangent leaving me
still in search of an answer :). Does anyone know how I can restore the
vanilla  Lilo or the Lilo from Redhat as the active one? Thanks!

Madison
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From mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 02:58:06 2003
From: mr.mcgregor-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John McGregor)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:58:06 -0400
Subject: dual boot
Message-ID: <3F7CE5BE.8050501@sympatico.ca>

To be honest, I think that your best bet would be to edit your current 
Lilo to reflect the changes that you want. However, if you want to 
pursue your current course, I had some luck in the past with overwriting 
Lilo with Grub and then over writing Grub with the Lilo version that I 
want to use (it works, but with my limited skill its a bit of a crap 
shoot. LOL)

John

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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 03:04:04 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 23:04:04 -0400
Subject: SQL Queries....
In-Reply-To: Message from "Lance F. Squire" <lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Thu, 02 Oct 2003 15:05:08 EDT." <3F7C76E4.90000-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> 
References: <3F7C76E4.90000@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031003030405.CC3EC3FF5@cbbrowne.com>

> I've been working with some SQL driven sights. Mostly Postgres and some 
> MySQL, However I've never had to do this before:
> 
> Does anyone know how to select only records that start with a certain 
> letter?
> 
> I can easly select records that contain the letter and order them 
> properly, but that dosn't help much. :(

In standard SQL, the "wildcards" are a little different from what you
are accustomed to:

 - The equivalent to "*" is "%"

 - The equivalent to "?" is "_"

 - You use single quotes to enclose strings, so use 'something'
   rather than "something".

PostgreSQL also supports, using the ~ operator, pretty full-scale
regular expressions.

So, you might have a query to look for people with names starting with
"B":

  select * from some_table where name like 'B%';

If you need case insensitivity, you might use:

  select * from some_table where lower(name) like 'b%';

To search for a field 3 characters long, you might try:
  select * from another_table where some_column like '___';
--
"cbbrowne","@","ntlug.org"
http://cbbrowne.com/info/finances.html
"As soon as  we started programming, we found to  our surprise that it
wasn't as easy to get programs right as we had thought.  Debugging had
to be  discovered.  I can remember  the exact instant  when I realized
that a  large part of my  life from then on  was going to  be spent in
finding  mistakes in  my own  programs."  
-- Maurice Wilkes discovers debugging, 1949
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 03:14:56 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:14:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>       
 <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
 <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022310220.10205@xword.rogers.com>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > I'm curious. When you are booting 2 different versions of Linux do you
> > have to install those packages that are common to both distributions
> > twice or can you share files between the 2 distributions.
>
> You'll want to keep the 2 seperate, but you can share $UERSPACE, such as
> /home, /tmp, and swap space. One of the problems with sharing apps is in
> the libs and where different distros install user files.

     So long as the apps are compiled with the same libraries, you
     should be OK. I have often just linked /usr/local/bin, or copied
     files into a bin directory, from a previous distro rather than
     hunting for the .debs, .rpms or source code.

     As usual, the best advice is: try it and see. You can move things
     around later, or recompile, if something doesn't work.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 03:31:20 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:31:20 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031002190042.GP13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> <20031002190042.GP13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200310022331.20781.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 02 October 2003 15:00, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I actually
> find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs on non
> x86 hardware, and I don't think Cisco uses x86 hardware.

Cisco definitely uses some x86 hardware.  PIX firewalls are basically PCs, 
according to my docs (about 2 years old I think) low end PIXes are 
Pentium200, high end PIX is PIII-1000 ... they might now have more horsepower 
these days but I expect they're still x86.

The PIX is claimed to run a different operating system (FOS) from Cisco 
routers (IOS).  Not sure if that's just a marketing gimick or if the core OS 
really is differnt.  Also don't know if typical Cisco routers are built 
around the x86 cpu.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 04:02:36 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:02:36 -0400
Subject: SCO called me Thursday.
Message-ID: <00dc01c38963$2e22b520$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

A SCO rep. called me Thursday afternoon to confirm that I would be at the
SCO show he in Toronto on Tuesday. My answer was "Yes, I'm looking forward
to it.", which is true but not for the reasons they might think :-)  (evil
grin)...

Now, I am not an IN YOUR FACE kind of guy, but I do want to sharpen some
pointed questions for the SCO reps, things along the lines of:

- A SCO server IP licence for Linux will run over $699 (U.S.), for this sort
of money I can either go into the used Sun market or BSD market and get some
interesting hardware. What real value does SCO offer me?

- SCO is currently being sued for copyright violations by IBM, as well as
being involved in legal tangles with RedHat, and possibly soon SGI. Further
SCO has not introduced any major new products this year. What evidence do we
have that SCO will be around a year from now to support the products you are
selling?

- If I purchase a SCO server IP licence for Linux, and it turns out there is
no SCO intellectual property in Linux, will SCO offer a money back guarantee
on my purchase price?

Other suggestions?

Colin McGregor


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 03:54:52 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:54:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <2104.24.192.219.224.1065149908.squirrel-cSwQExXi3C0g59NOP9PCHBGZ6WaZejjh@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
        <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
        <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <2104.24.192.219.224.1065149908.squirrel@host.bettermarkets.com>
Message-ID: <13904.216.138.194.32.1065153292.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> BTW - My questions has seemed to have gone off on a tangent leaving me
> still in search of an answer :). Does anyone know how I can restore the
> vanilla  Lilo or the Lilo from Redhat as the active one? Thanks!

rpm -e grub (or using a W98 bootdisk, fdisk /mbr will clean the mbr, but
it really isn't necessary unless the mbr is fubar'ed)
rpm -Uvh lilo (should overwrite the mbr if that's where you put it)
edit lilo.conf
run lilo (until it comes clean)
make a boot disk
reboot


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 03:58:45 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:58:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022133500.32647-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022133500.32647@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <13924.216.138.194.32.1065153525.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Michael wrote:
>
>> Now as for IOS... okay yes Cisco boxes run IOS, which is a big bad
>> ugly name (bad and ugly because it does not really describe what IOS
>> is) for what is nothing more than a shell that runs on top of QNX.
>
> Hi Michael.  Can you provide references for this?  I've long believed
> that IOS was a derivative of BSD unix.  I've just RTFMed on it and to be
> honest haven't found any evidence either way.
>
> On a different topic, I played with QNX a bit some years ago but hadn't
> looked at it in ages.  I just took the time to come up to speed a bit on
> developments in the QNX world and there have been quite a few.

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX



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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 04:41:11 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 00:41:11 -0400
Subject: SCO called me Thursday.
In-Reply-To: <00dc01c38963$2e22b520$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <00dc01c38963$2e22b520$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F7CFDE7.4080103@sympatico.ca>

 >Other suggestions?

Um, how about, let's go Straight Up:

(1) How does it feel to work for a lying cheating weasel scumbag?  Oh 
wait, you work for Darl, not Bill.  Okay, How does it feel to work for a 
lying cheating wife-beating fire-breathing soul-sucking demon from the 
Seventh Circle of Hell?

(2) How long do you think the policy of lying, covering up, and making 
false allegations can last, before people realize you have no actual 
business model, no viable products, and that, having made your last 
nickel from the 1960s era AT&T source code you seem to think so much of, 
that you should really just call it a day like the rest of the Linux IPO 
dot-bombs that went bust before you?

(3) How does it feel to spend all day making allegations about Linux, 
when Linux is what built your company, gave it an overpriced IPO, which 
has cushioned you while you look for real customers, and while you 
scramble to come up with a real product to sell, the best you can seem 
to do is to try to create a firestorm of controversy over your ancient 
unix rights?


Most Sincerely, and with all my Unkindest Disregards to all the SCO 
buffoons, I remain definitely-not-yours....

Warren





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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 04:44:28 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:44:28 -0400
Subject: DEBUG mail
Message-ID: <200310030044.29881.marc@lijour.net>

Is it possible to trace an email that has been sent through my server (via 
mailing-list application) and to somebody.

This somebody claims that it did not received his copy. Is there a way I can 
make sure that the email actually leaved the computer in his direction?

Marc

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 04:39:47 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 00:39:47 -0400
Subject: "Running the Internet" and other meaningless terms
In-Reply-To: <Law14-F91VKW447p9NB0000516e-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F91VKW447p9NB0000516e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031003003947.4a73e2d7.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:51:32 -0400
"Hugh Reilly" <hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> "I hear they've got the internet on computers now"
> 
> -Bart Simpson

That was Homer. D'oh!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Paradise is exactly like where you are right now ... only much, much
better.
		-- Laurie Anderson
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 05:07:58 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:07:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: DEBUG mail
In-Reply-To: <200310030044.29881.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310030044.29881.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310030102550.3555@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> Is it possible to trace an email that has been sent through my server (via
> mailing-list application) and to somebody.
>
> This somebody claims that it did not received his copy. Is there a way I can
> make sure that the email actually leaved the computer in his direction?

Do you admin your own mail server (I'm guessing now).  If not, then the
admin for your mail server should be able to determine that the mail left
your server and arrived on someone elses.  That is probably the mail
server of the recipient, but it might have been a backup MX.  Only the
admins of the other mail servers can tell you what happened to it then.

While you can't guarantee final delivery unless you get in contact with
each mail admin and see it go all the way to the right box and then get
popped, or imaped or whatever, you can guarantee that the mail item
started its journey ok.  Unfortunately this doesn't prove anything :(

Who knows what happened, the mail might have been caught by an errant spam
catcher (false positives happen) and even now be sitting in a spam folder
somewhere.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 05:06:41 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 01:06:41 -0400
Subject: DEBUG mail
In-Reply-To: <200310030044.29881.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310030044.29881.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031003010355.02fc4760@mail.interlog.com>

At 12:44 AM 10/03/2003 -0400, Marc wrote:
>This somebody claims that it did not received his copy. Is there a way I can
>make sure that the email actually leaved the computer in his direction?

Look in your system log files (typically /var/log/maillog). The specific 
file where your mail system activity is logged may depend on the 
configuration of your syslog daemon.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 05:25:46 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:25:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <13924.216.138.194.32.1065153525.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022133500.32647@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <13924.216.138.194.32.1065153525.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310030124340.3555@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> > On a different topic, I played with QNX a bit some years ago but hadn't
> > looked at it in ages.  I just took the time to come up to speed a bit on
> > developments in the QNX world and there have been quite a few.
>
> http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/QNX

Yeah I read that actually, but I was after a reference that IOS sat on
top of QNX rather than BSD.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 05:48:53 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:48:53 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7BABE3.6050408-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031003054853.GC22366@m450>

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:38:59AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote
> waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> >  Hopefully I'll outgrow this status in few weeks.  Questions...
> >
> >1) Help... No X-Windowing!  The startx command gets a response...
> >/usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: /usr/bin/X11/X: no such file or 
> >directory
> >The config file is there, but no X.
> Try to execute the following:
> dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86

  And it complained that xserver-xfree86 wasn't completely installed.
So I did "apt-get install xserver-xfree86" and it runs now.  Just one
more problem (sigh).  It come up with...

Error while initializing the sound driver.
device /dev/disp can't be opened (Permission denied)

  Looking at my /dev directory, I see that /dev/dsp, /dev/dsp1,
/dev/dsp2, and /dev/dsp3 exist, all with permissions crw-rw----

  BTW, I installed the bf2.4 version of Debian, selecting ReiserFS and
devfs, if tha makes any difference.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 05:49:58 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 01:49:58 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <200310020813.20413.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <200310020813.20413.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031003054958.GD22366@m450>

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 08:13:20AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote
> On Thursday 02 October 2003 00:21, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> >   Hopefully I'll outgrow this status in few weeks.  Questions...
> >
> > 1) Help... No X-Windowing!  The startx command gets a response...
> > /usr/X11R6/lib/X11/xinit/xserverrc: /usr/bin/X11/X: no such file or
> > directory The config file is there, but no X.
> 
> Sounds like you need to "apt-get install xserver-xfree86"

So I did "apt-get install xserver-xfree86" and it runs now.  Just one
more problem (sigh).  It comes up with...

Error while initializing the sound driver.
device /dev/disp can't be opened (Permission denied)

  Looking at my /dev directory, I see that /dev/dsp, /dev/dsp1,
/dev/dsp2, and /dev/dsp3 exist, all with permissions crw-rw----

  BTW, I installed the bf2.4 version of Debian, selecting ReiserFS and
devfs, if tha makes any difference.


-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 06:15:53 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 02:15:53 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031003054853.GC22366-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450>
Message-ID: <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com>

waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
...
>>Try to execute the following:
>>dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xfree86
> 
> 
>   And it complained that xserver-xfree86 wasn't completely installed.
> So I did "apt-get install xserver-xfree86" and it runs now.  Just one
> more problem (sigh).  It come up with...
> 
> Error while initializing the sound driver.
> device /dev/disp can't be opened (Permission denied)
Add yourself to the group 'audio' and re-logon.

> 
>   Looking at my /dev directory, I see that /dev/dsp, /dev/dsp1,
> /dev/dsp2, and /dev/dsp3 exist, all with permissions crw-rw----
> 
>   BTW, I installed the bf2.4 version of Debian, selecting ReiserFS and
> devfs, if tha makes any difference.
> 
By the way, you need to replace bf2.4, this kernel is for fail-safe 
installation only :-)

Now install a real one:
$apt-cache search kernel-image
then choose the one which conforms you CPU and apt-get it.

Let me know if you need to configure ISDN with Debian :-)
Solving this task, I had to look through German mailing lists, despite I 
couldn't understand a word except for config parameters :-)


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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 06:30:26 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 02:30:26 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <1065127585.11802.3.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065127585.11802.3.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031003022743.01fbb9b0@mail.interlog.com>

Greetings.

At 04:46 PM 10/02/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>   I have setup on my system Win2k, RH9.0 and Mandrake 9.1 (installed in
>the order). Now I am currently booting with the Mandrake-installed boot
>loader but I want to switch back to the vanilla (or Redhat) version of
>lilo. Can someone tell me how to do this? When I try typing '# lilo'
>after updating '/etc/lilo.conf' (from RH9) I get this error:
>
>Fatal: /boot/message is too big (> 65535 bytes)

Something doesn't seem right there. Check that /boot/message is part of the
lilo package. On my RH9 machine with lilo-21.4.4.22 the file is only 23108
bytes in length.

Below is a copy of the lilo.conf file I use. You probably need the line lba32
if your BIOS indicates LBA mode for your hard drives. The append line is
optional. If you need to add extra parameters/options at boot time, you can
instead put them in the append line.

Since you are booting different OS, you need the 'prompt' and 'timeout' lines.
This means you will get a LILO: prompt. The timeout is specified in tenths of
a second so my example waits 15 seconds.

The 'default' line is used to indicate what to boot by default if nothing is
typed at the LILO: prompt. You will need multiple copies of the 5 lines which
start 'image'. In each block you need to indicate the name of the file
containing the OS to boot. The label line is used to name the different boot
options you will have and one of the names will be used in the 'default' line.

The block of lines starting with 'other' is used to boot the MS operating
system.

I have also attached my copy of the boot.message file. This is a text file
which is shown on screen just before the LILO: prompt. You can use it to
identify the machine, or remind you how to select which OS to boot to name a
couple of example uses.

Boot in to either RH or Mandrake and make a boot floppy just in case. Check
that the lilo RPM is installed. Edit the /etc/lilo.conf file to specify the
partitions containing the different OS you want to boot and the name of the
boot images to use.

Once you have the lilo.conf file configured the way you want/need, run the /
sbin/lilo command. It will say 'Added' and the name of one of your boot
choices for each of the boot options you listed in your lilo.conf file. One of
the lines will also have an '*' at the end which indicates which of the boot
choices is the default choice.

If everything looks ok (ie. no errors appeared during the run of the lilo
command), you should be able to reboot the machine and get a LILO: prompt.
Test the system by doing a reboot and selecting each of your OS choices in
turn.

I have stayed with using lilo to boot the machines I administer. I looked at
GRUB once. It seemed more involved to get the grub system set up compared to
the LILO system that was working for me so I saw no reason to make a switch.

Good luck, Madison.

----- start of lilo.conf -----
boot=/dev/hda
map=/boot/map
install=/boot/boot.b
lba32
prompt
message=/boot/boot.message
append="sb=0x220,7,1,5 dmabuf=1 hdb=ide-scsi hdc=ide-scsi"
vga=normal
read-only
timeout=150
default=linux

image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-20.9
    label=linux
    root=/dev/hda2
    read-only
    initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.20-20.9.img

other=/dev/hda1
    label=winme
    table=/dev/hda
----- end of lilo.con -----

----- start of boot.message -----
    ___/\_________/\/\/\___/\______/\___/\______/\__/\____/\_____
   ___/\___________/\_____/\/\____/\___/\______/\____/\_/\______
  ___/\___________/\_____/\__/\__/\___/\______/\______/\_______
___/\___________/\_____/\____/\/\___/\______/\_____/\_/\_____
___/\/\/\/\___/\/\/\___/\______/\____/\/\/\/\_____/\____/\___


Hit ENTER or wait 15 seconds to load Linux, or
type 'winme' and hit ENTER to load Windoze ME.
----- end of boot.message -----


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 13:12:18 2003
From: seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Seneca)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:12:18 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <200310022331.20781.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> <20031002190042.GP13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200310022331.20781.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031003131218.GA827@sophocles>

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 11:31:20PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Thursday 02 October 2003 15:00, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
> > I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I actually
> > find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs on non
> > x86 hardware, and I don't think Cisco uses x86 hardware.
> 
> Cisco definitely uses some x86 hardware.  PIX firewalls are basically PCs, 
> according to my docs (about 2 years old I think) low end PIXes are 
> Pentium200, high end PIX is PIII-1000 ... they might now have more horsepower 
> these days but I expect they're still x86.
> 
> The PIX is claimed to run a different operating system (FOS) from Cisco 
> routers (IOS).  Not sure if that's just a marketing gimick or if the core OS 
> really is differnt.  Also don't know if typical Cisco routers are built 
> around the x86 cpu.

I've got a Cisco ISDN router in a box in my dorm room.  According to its
documentation, its CPU is a 386.

-- 
Seneca
seneca-cunningham-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 13:18:53 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 09:18:53 -0400
Subject: Open source comes to car parts
In-Reply-To: <00b801c38947$972ba890$0200a8c0-bDyVNySQBNH9aAI3MaG8BQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <00b801c38947$972ba890$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <1065187132.19434.0.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>

On Thu, 2003-10-02 at 20:45, Jim Ruxton wrote:
> What a great idea...
> http://www.embedded.com/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=15200878

Sounds too un-American to catch on here.


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From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 13:23:02 2003
From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:23:02 -0400
Subject: what program accesses a file?
In-Reply-To: <20031002222837.GA2373-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>
	<20031002222837.GA2373@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031003092302.466fc3cb.anthony@unihedron.com>

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:28:37 -0400, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> man fuser

On 02 Oct 2003 22:07:30 -0400, Tim Writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Or try lsof.

Thanks for pointing out those interesting utilities, however, I tried each
of the following and nothing showed up:

  while true; do lsof | grep ttyS ; done
  while true; do fuser /dev/ttyS0 ; done

meanwhile the tx: field below keeps changing 

cat /proc/tty/driver/serial 
serinfo:1.0 driver:5.05c revision:2001-07-08
0: uart:16550A port:3F8 irq:4 baud:19200 tx:212754 rx:6 RTS|DTR
1: uart:16550A port:2F8 irq:3 baud:9600 tx:4895 rx:10543 RTS|DTR|DSR|RI


Either something is opening that port so quickly the while loop is not
catching anything or some other weird problem exists.

Do you have any other ideas?

TIA!

PS. I have attached a listing of my running processes.

-- 
Anthony
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 13:07:41 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 09:07:41 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001075507.3edb98b5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031003090741.0e72f94b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 07:55:07 -0400
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> "Other operating systems like Linux, Unix and Macintosh, experts say,
> all have security vulnerabilities. "But they don't get the attention
> and the attacks because, unlike Microsoft, the other technologies are
> not deployed on 300 million computers," said Russ Cooper, a security
> expert at TruSecure, a computer security company. "This is not just
> Microsoft's problem."

Here's a really good offering on exactly why this is so totally wrong.

"We've all heard it many times when a new Microsoft virus comes out. In
fact, I've heard it a couple of times this week already. Someone on a
mailing list or discussion forum complains about the latest in a long
line of Microsoft email viruses or worms and recommends others consider
Mac OS X or Linux as a somewhat safer computing platform. In response,
another person named, oh, let's call him "Bill," says, basically, "How
ridiculous! The only reason Microsoft software is the target of so many
viruses is because it is so widely used! Why, if Linux or Mac OS X was
as popular as Windows, there would be just as many viruses written for
those platforms!"

Of course, it's not just "regular folks" on mailing lists who share this
opinion. Businesspeople have expressed similar attitudes ... including
ones who work for anti-virus companies. Jack Clarke, European product
manager at McAfee, said, "So we will be seeing more Linux viruses as the
OS becomes more common and popular."

Mr. Clarke is wrong."

Source:

http://securityfocus.com/columnists/188

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you
do it.
		-- Gandhi
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 14:04:18 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 10:04:18 -0400
Subject: SANE - scanner problems
Message-ID: <1065189858.2754.4.camel@linux.local>

I am running Suse 8.2 pro, and I disconnected the scanner usb cable in
order to move it to a different location on my desk. Now I am unable to
use it. YAST2 finds it and configures it, but Kooka cannot use it.

When the program launches it shows to scanners to choose from

1. snapscan:/dev/usb/scanner0
2. snapscan:/dev/usbscanner

neither of which work. Says "No Scanner Was Found"

Worked fine before. Any ideas?

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 15:25:34 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:25:34 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031003022743.01fbb9b0-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031003022743.01fbb9b0@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <1065194733.11802.18.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>

Here is what is in my '/boot' (relevant part, anyway):

-=-=-=-=-
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root           15 Sep  2 21:24 message ->
message-graphic
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root          94K Sep  2 21:23 message-graphic
-=-=-=-=-

and here is my '/etc/lilo.conf':

-=-=-=-=-
prompt
timeout=50
default=redhat
boot=/dev/hda
map=/boot/map
install=/boot/boot.b
message=/boot/message
lba32
                                                                                                                                         
image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-20.9
        label=redhat
        initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.20-20.9.img
        read-only
        append="hdc=ide-scsi hdd=ide-scsi root=LABEL=/"
                                                                                                                                         
other=/dev/hda1
        optional
        label=win2k
-=-=-=-=-

I think you have answered my problem... I believe that the current
'/boot/message' is being symlinked to the fancy-shmancy graphical
Mandrake boot message. I will try replacing it and seeing ifthat will
fix the problem...

Thank you very much for the long message!! I will post my result for
archival sake if it works!

Madison

On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 02:30, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> Greetings.
> 
> At 04:46 PM 10/02/2003 -0400, you wrote:
> >   I have setup on my system Win2k, RH9.0 and Mandrake 9.1 (installed in
> >the order). Now I am currently booting with the Mandrake-installed boot
> >loader but I want to switch back to the vanilla (or Redhat) version of
> >lilo. Can someone tell me how to do this? When I try typing '# lilo'
> >after updating '/etc/lilo.conf' (from RH9) I get this error:
> >
> >Fatal: /boot/message is too big (> 65535 bytes)
> 
> Something doesn't seem right there. Check that /boot/message is part of the
> lilo package. On my RH9 machine with lilo-21.4.4.22 the file is only 23108
> bytes in length.
> 
> Below is a copy of the lilo.conf file I use. You probably need the line lba32
> if your BIOS indicates LBA mode for your hard drives. The append line is
> optional. If you need to add extra parameters/options at boot time, you can
> instead put them in the append line.
> 
> Since you are booting different OS, you need the 'prompt' and 'timeout' lines.
> This means you will get a LILO: prompt. The timeout is specified in tenths of
> a second so my example waits 15 seconds.
> 
> The 'default' line is used to indicate what to boot by default if nothing is
> typed at the LILO: prompt. You will need multiple copies of the 5 lines which
> start 'image'. In each block you need to indicate the name of the file
> containing the OS to boot. The label line is used to name the different boot
> options you will have and one of the names will be used in the 'default' line.
> 
> The block of lines starting with 'other' is used to boot the MS operating
> system.
> 
> I have also attached my copy of the boot.message file. This is a text file
> which is shown on screen just before the LILO: prompt. You can use it to
> identify the machine, or remind you how to select which OS to boot to name a
> couple of example uses.
> 
> Boot in to either RH or Mandrake and make a boot floppy just in case. Check
> that the lilo RPM is installed. Edit the /etc/lilo.conf file to specify the
> partitions containing the different OS you want to boot and the name of the
> boot images to use.
> 
> Once you have the lilo.conf file configured the way you want/need, run the /
> sbin/lilo command. It will say 'Added' and the name of one of your boot
> choices for each of the boot options you listed in your lilo.conf file. One of
> the lines will also have an '*' at the end which indicates which of the boot
> choices is the default choice.
> 
> If everything looks ok (ie. no errors appeared during the run of the lilo
> command), you should be able to reboot the machine and get a LILO: prompt.
> Test the system by doing a reboot and selecting each of your OS choices in
> turn.
> 
> I have stayed with using lilo to boot the machines I administer. I looked at
> GRUB once. It seemed more involved to get the grub system set up compared to
> the LILO system that was working for me so I saw no reason to make a switch.
> 
> Good luck, Madison.
> 
> ----- start of lilo.conf -----
> boot=/dev/hda
> map=/boot/map
> install=/boot/boot.b
> lba32
> prompt
> message=/boot/boot.message
> append="sb=0x220,7,1,5 dmabuf=1 hdb=ide-scsi hdc=ide-scsi"
> vga=normal
> read-only
> timeout=150
> default=linux
> 
> image=/boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-20.9
>     label=linux
>     root=/dev/hda2
>     read-only
>     initrd=/boot/initrd-2.4.20-20.9.img
> 
> other=/dev/hda1
>     label=winme
>     table=/dev/hda
> ----- end of lilo.con -----
> 
> ----- start of boot.message -----
>     ___/\_________/\/\/\___/\______/\___/\______/\__/\____/\_____
>    ___/\___________/\_____/\/\____/\___/\______/\____/\_/\______
>   ___/\___________/\_____/\__/\__/\___/\______/\______/\_______
> ___/\___________/\_____/\____/\/\___/\______/\_____/\_/\_____
> ___/\/\/\/\___/\/\/\___/\______/\____/\/\/\/\_____/\____/\___
> 
> 
> Hit ENTER or wait 15 seconds to load Linux, or
> type 'winme' and hit ENTER to load Windoze ME.
> ----- end of boot.message -----
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)
> 
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
> E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
> Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
> #include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Madison Kelly
416-208-0146
mkelly_At_alteeve_Dot_com

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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 15:35:27 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 03 Oct 2003 11:35:27 -0400
Subject: what program accesses a file?
In-Reply-To: <20031003092302.466fc3cb.anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>
	<20031002222837.GA2373@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031003092302.466fc3cb.anthony@unihedron.com>
Message-ID: <lt65j6nxkw.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

Anthony Tekatch <anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org> writes:

> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:28:37 -0400, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > man fuser
> 
> On 02 Oct 2003 22:07:30 -0400, Tim Writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > Or try lsof.
> 
> Thanks for pointing out those interesting utilities, however, I tried each
> of the following and nothing showed up:
> 
>   while true; do lsof | grep ttyS ; done
>   while true; do fuser /dev/ttyS0 ; done
> 
> meanwhile the tx: field below keeps changing 
> 
> cat /proc/tty/driver/serial 
> serinfo:1.0 driver:5.05c revision:2001-07-08
> 0: uart:16550A port:3F8 irq:4 baud:19200 tx:212754 rx:6 RTS|DTR
> 1: uart:16550A port:2F8 irq:3 baud:9600 tx:4895 rx:10543 RTS|DTR|DSR|RI
> 
> 
> Either something is opening that port so quickly the while loop is not
> catching anything or some other weird problem exists.
> 
> Do you have any other ideas?

Try moving ttyS0 aside:

    mv /dev/ttyS0 /dev/ttyS0.orig

If you're lucky, whatever is opening it will log an error message.

> PS. I have attached a listing of my running processes.

I don't see anything obvious.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 15:39:13 2003
From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 08:39:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SANE - scanner problems
In-Reply-To: <1065189858.2754.4.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065189858.2754.4.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20031003153913.20823.qmail@web14512.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jason Shein <jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I am running Suse 8.2 pro, and I disconnected the
> scanner usb cable in
> order to move it to a different location on my desk.
> Now I am unable to
> use it. YAST2 finds it and configures it, but Kooka
> cannot use it.
> 
> When the program launches it shows to scanners to
> choose from
> 
> 1. snapscan:/dev/usb/scanner0
> 2. snapscan:/dev/usbscanner
> 
> neither of which work. Says "No Scanner Was Found"
> 
> Worked fine before. Any ideas?
> 

Did you reboot the computer? Because if you didn??t,
maybe the modules needed where unloaded. You can check
(lsmod) if they are still there.

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 15:43:31 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:43:31 -0400
Subject: SANE - scanner problems
In-Reply-To: <20031003153913.20823.qmail-4GJ6zp1JX++A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031003153913.20823.qmail@web14512.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1065195811.2760.7.camel@linux.local>

Tried that. Even tried rebooting/restarting services while scanner was
unplugged. Then reconnecting the scanner and starting over.

Probably a glitch from the yast2 tool. I am trying to locate where the
config files are. Any ideas?


On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 11:39, Martin C wrote:
> --- Jason Shein <jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > I am running Suse 8.2 pro, and I disconnected the
> > scanner usb cable in
> > order to move it to a different location on my desk.
> > Now I am unable to
> > use it. YAST2 finds it and configures it, but Kooka
> > cannot use it.
> > 
> > When the program launches it shows to scanners to
> > choose from
> > 
> > 1. snapscan:/dev/usb/scanner0
> > 2. snapscan:/dev/usbscanner
> > 
> > neither of which work. Says "No Scanner Was Found"
> > 
> > Worked fine before. Any ideas?
> > 
> 
> Did you reboot the computer? Because if you didnt,
> maybe the modules needed where unloaded. You can check
> (lsmod) if they are still there.
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 15:50:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 11:50:09 -0400
Subject: SANE - scanner problems
In-Reply-To: <1065195811.2760.7.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031003153913.20823.qmail@web14512.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1065195811.2760.7.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20031003115009.4f8f6393.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:43:31 -0400
Jason Shein <jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Probably a glitch from the yast2 tool. I am trying to locate where the
> config files are. Any ideas?

what does "sane-find-scanner" report? It may show the same as Kooka, but
it may also give you more output besides.

also, as has been suggested, try lsmod to make sure the driver modules
have been loaded, and:

ls -l /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/drivers/usb

to see a listing of where the drivers are and the perms and such.

Been through this before myself, and for once I actually wrote
everything down I was advised to try ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If little green men land in your back yard, hide any little green women
you've got in the house.
		-- Mike Harding, "The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac"
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 16:25:52 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:25:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: what program accesses a file?
In-Reply-To: <20031003092302.466fc3cb.anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>
        <20031002222837.GA2373@node1.opengeometry.net>
        <20031003092302.466fc3cb.anthony@unihedron.com>
Message-ID: <16918.216.138.194.32.1065198352.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:28:37 -0400, William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>> man fuser
>
> On 02 Oct 2003 22:07:30 -0400, Tim Writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>> Or try lsof.
>
> Thanks for pointing out those interesting utilities, however, I tried
> each of the following and nothing showed up:
>
>   while true; do lsof | grep ttyS ; done
>   while true; do fuser /dev/ttyS0 ; done
>
> meanwhile the tx: field below keeps changing
>
> cat /proc/tty/driver/serial
> serinfo:1.0 driver:5.05c revision:2001-07-08
> 0: uart:16550A port:3F8 irq:4 baud:19200 tx:212754 rx:6 RTS|DTR
> 1: uart:16550A port:2F8 irq:3 baud:9600 tx:4895 rx:10543 RTS|DTR|DSR|RI

Could these be coming from either the braille tty daeomon you have running
or ypbind?

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 17:25:11 2003
From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 13:25:11 -0400
Subject: what program accesses a file?
In-Reply-To: <lt65j6nxkw.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>
	<20031002222837.GA2373@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031003092302.466fc3cb.anthony@unihedron.com>
	<lt65j6nxkw.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <20031003132511.763d67f5.anthony@unihedron.com>

On 03 Oct 2003 11:35:27 -0400, Tim Writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Try moving ttyS0 aside:
>     mv /dev/ttyS0 /dev/ttyS0.orig
> If you're lucky, whatever is opening it will log an error message.

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003 12:25:52 -0400 (EDT), "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > meanwhile the tx: field below keeps changing
> > cat /proc/tty/driver/serial
> > serinfo:1.0 driver:5.05c revision:2001-07-08
> > 0: uart:16550A port:3F8 irq:4 baud:19200 tx:212754 rx:6 RTS|DTR
> > 1: uart:16550A port:2F8 irq:3 baud:9600 tx:4895 rx:10543 RTS|DTR|DSR|RI
> Could these be coming from either the braille tty daeomon you have running
> or ypbind?


You're both right, thank you Tim and Keith!

After moving the /dev/ttyS0 I did a search in /var/log for ttyS0 and
found the following in /var/log/daemon.log:

Oct  3 11:48:59 pino brltty[80]: Open failed on port /dev/ttyS0: No such
file or directory


The funny thing was that I had earlier killed all brltty processes due to
suspicions but the transmissions did not stop. So I then removed the
brltty package and restarted now everything is fine.

Thank you.

-- 
Anthony
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 18:03:37 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 03 Oct 2003 14:03:37 -0400
Subject: Cheap LPI exams at WowGao conference
In-Reply-To: <001101c389c8$838c9980$cf646464-F8rtLjcYsIM@public.gmane.org>
References: <001101c389c8$838c9980$cf646464@gao.com>
Message-ID: <lvsmmaqjuu.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

> We have room for your exam at following time spot:
> 
> Oct 14: 8:00 AM & 2:00 PM
> Oct 15: 9:00 AM & 3:00 PM
> Oct 16: 9:00 AM & 2:00 PM
> 
> The room is for 12 people with desk , chair and clock. Also we will arrange
> the signage as you require.

Hi everyone,

I'm just passing on a note that CLUE and LPI are going to be at the WowGao
conference in Toronto from Oct 14-16th.  We have exam labs at the above
mentioned times if anyone is interested in getting an LPI cert or writing an
exam.

The exams are $50CDN each instead of the usual $100USD through Prometric and
Sylvan.  You do have to register for the conference, though, [it's free] at:

        http://www.wowgao.com

More info on the LPI certification is at:

        http://www.lpi.org

If anyone wants to schedule an exams slot, please e-mail wilma-6+cD4/kH8Z0 at public.gmane.org


Also, if anyone that is fairly well informed on LPI and/or Linux would like
to be booth babes, let me know.  I think that I have a few Gold passes to
provide some incentives [Gold means a complete pass to all talks in all
tracks and preferential seating at keynotes].

TTFN,
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 18:10:30 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:10:30 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
Message-ID: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

When a Linux server crashes there are often clear messages in the logs 
indicating why ... out of memory and processes dying, file descriptors being 
exhausted, whatever.

When a server crashes and absolutely nothing interesting is in the logs what 
does a person do?  I generally suspect hardware problems but when a server 
has been rock solid historically I don't put a lot of faith in that and in 
any case it's just a guess.

The server is completely up to date; postfix, apache, courier (imap & pop) and 
ssh accessible to the Internet.  It also runs mysql (not Internet 
accessible).  Server 1 minute load average is normally less than 0.1.

What approaches do you guys take for tracking these things down? For now I've 
installed atsar to track resources, post crash (if it happens again) I can 
hopefully tell if it's a resource issue.

Although google is a great resource for finding specific error messages I find 
tracking down topics like this can sometimes be difficult.  A website that 
collected and organized troubleshooting tips would be a great idea, if only I 
had the time ;-)

Thanks,
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 18:18:11 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:18:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <200310031410.30288.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031003141502.10815A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> When a server crashes and absolutely nothing interesting is in the logs what 
> does a person do? ...
> What approaches do you guys take for tracking these things down?

One trick that can be useful is to reconfigure the syslog subsystem to do
remote logging.  It sometimes happens that there *were* relevant log
entries made, but they didn't make it out to disk before the system died. 
You can sometimes reduce loss of last-minute log messages by sending them
to another machine instead. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 18:25:17 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 14:25:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <200310031410.30288.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <17302.216.138.194.32.1065205517.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


Hey Fraser,

> When a server crashes and absolutely nothing interesting is in the logs
> what  does a person do?  I generally suspect hardware problems but when
> a server  has been rock solid historically I don't put a lot of faith in
> that and in  any case it's just a guess.

I trust that the server is on a tested good UPS, so a power event is out
of the question?

Sometimes there isn't any error message in the logs that looks to be
relevant, but there might be a hint. I had a desktop with unpredictable
behavior in X, Xserver locking the system hard. there was nothing relevant
in messages, but I found a hint in the boot.log that the sound daemon
wasn't configured (I don't use sound), so I ran sndconfig and everything
worked fine after that.

So although you might not get a kern message in the messages log, there
might be a hint elsewhere. I would check the boot.log and the apache
error_log for hints.

Try Henry's suggestion of logging to a stealth machine, but I dunno if
it'll help if the kernel is freezing before being able to write to it.

HTH, good luck.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 19:18:52 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:18:52 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <200310031410.30288.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F7DCB9C.1090805@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> When a Linux server crashes there are often clear messages in the logs 
> indicating why ... out of memory and processes dying, file descriptors being 
> exhausted, whatever.
> 
> When a server crashes and absolutely nothing interesting is in the logs what 
> does a person do?  I generally suspect hardware problems but when a server 
Turn on the monitor to find out if there is a kernel panic. What 
actually happens when it crashes?

> has been rock solid historically I don't put a lot of faith in that and in 
> any case it's just a guess.
How old is it? Maybe it's time to clean contacts on SIMMs, run 
memtest86,  replace a power supply (electrolytic capasitors get dry in 
2-3 years), make sure fans are good, run badblock?

> 
> The server is completely up to date; postfix, apache, courier (imap & pop) and 
> ssh accessible to the Internet.  It also runs mysql (not Internet 
> accessible).  Server 1 minute load average is normally less than 0.1.
> 
> What approaches do you guys take for tracking these things down? For now I've 
> installed atsar to track resources, post crash (if it happens again) I can 
> hopefully tell if it's a resource issue.
> 
> Although google is a great resource for finding specific error messages I find 
> tracking down topics like this can sometimes be difficult.  A website that 
> collected and organized troubleshooting tips would be a great idea, if only I 
> had the time ;-)
Crashes of stable Linux distributions don't happen on regular basis, 
there is no need in troubleshooting tips website :-). Seriously - if one 
starts to experience problems having no recent soft/config changes in 
the Linux system, hardware must be checked. I've listed the most weak 
parts above.

Regards,
Ilya.

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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 19:19:59 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:19:59 -0400
Subject: SANE - scanner problems
In-Reply-To: <20031003115009.4f8f6393.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031003153913.20823.qmail@web14512.mail.yahoo.com>
	 <1065195811.2760.7.camel@linux.local>
	 <20031003115009.4f8f6393.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1065208799.2761.24.camel@linux.local>

I forgot how I initially got it to work in the first place.

http://snapscan.sourceforge.net/#work


-snip-
Most USB models need a firmware upload in order to work (see table
above). The bin file can be found in the windows drivers coming with
your scanner. For scanners from Acer / Benq the last three digits of the
firmware file depend on the version of your driver CD. The files listed
in the table are known to work, other versions will probably work as
well.

If you have a scanner from Acer or Benq and are uncertain which firmware
file to use, run "acerfirm  -q".

You have to specify the firmware file in snapscan.conf, which can
usually be found in /usr/local/etc/sane.d/ if you compiled SANE yourself
or /etc/sane.d if you installed SANE from your distribution. The line
should start with 'firmware' and contain the fully qualified path to
your firmware file, e.g. 
        firmware /path/to/my/firmware.bin
You can also upload the firmware to your scanner manually. You need to
launch one of agfafirm or acerfirm perl scripts: 
        acerfirm /dev/usbscanner u34v101.bin
        
Note: acerfirm and agfafirm will only work if you use the scanner module
to access your USB scanner. It does not work with libusb.
-snip-

Thanx for the input everyone. I got it working now.

On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 11:50, JoeHill wrote:
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 11:43:31 -0400
> Jason Shein <jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > 
> > Probably a glitch from the yast2 tool. I am trying to locate where the
> > config files are. Any ideas?
> 
> what does "sane-find-scanner" report? It may show the same as Kooka, but
> it may also give you more output besides.
> 
> also, as has been suggested, try lsmod to make sure the driver modules
> have been loaded, and:
> 
> ls -l /lib/modules/$(uname -r)/kernel/drivers/usb
> 
> to see a listing of where the drivers are and the perms and such.
> 
> Been through this before myself, and for once I actually wrote
> everything down I was advised to try ;-)
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 19:28:31 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 15:28:31 -0400
Subject: SANE - scanner problems
In-Reply-To: <1065208799.2761.24.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031003153913.20823.qmail@web14512.mail.yahoo.com>
	<1065195811.2760.7.camel@linux.local>
	<20031003115009.4f8f6393.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1065208799.2761.24.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20031003152831.63119430.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 03 Oct 2003 15:19:59 -0400
Jason Shein <jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Thanx for the input everyone. I got it working now.

Mr. Burns voice: "Eeexxcceelllent...". :-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Got a dictionary?  I want to know the meaning of life.
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From andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 21:23:21 2003
From: andzy-ZTO5kqT2PaM at public.gmane.org (Andrew Malcolmson)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:23:21 -0500
Subject: Fwd: HP & IBM et al vs Sun
Message-ID: <20031003212321.48574772B5@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>

I sent Kevin Restivo of the National Post the following email about his
story 

http://www.nationalpost.ca/financialpost/story.html?id=0ACCA562-E181-4BC2-9460-50BBFF9397A7

about Sun's problems pretty much stating that selling Linux puts Sun at a
disadvantage vs. IBM and HP.

Does this guy have a history of writing inaccurate stories about Linux?


----- Original message -----
From: "Andrew Malcolmson" <andrew-mQDsgmoLwK2nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
To: krestivo-U0LLASLCtz+kIav1LDZHxg at public.gmane.org
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 16:18:10 -0500
Subject: HP & IBM et al vs Sun

Re your story today about IBM and HP 
"win[ning] sales from its smaller competitor by using cheaper Intel
computer chips and Microsoft's Windows software."

You imply that selling Windows gives IBM and HP an advantage over Sun. 
However, HP isn't neglecting to use Linux as well as Windows to win over
Sun customers and will even offer them $25,000 to switch.

http://www.internetnews.com/ent-news/article.php/3087041

Dell is also selling Linux servers and seems to be taking over HP's lead:

http://www.newsfactor.com/perl/story/22373.html

Gateway too sees a market for Linux and will sell you a server with
RedHat preinstalled. (This ad is aimed at the Government and non-profit
sector):

http://esource.gateway.com/prod_config.asp?sku=15853495&mscssid=2512984





-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
-------------------
Andrew Malcolmson
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 20:08:26 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 23:08:26 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E2831911B-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E2831911B@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022259200.704@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Wil McGilvery wrote:

> Sheesh! Ask a simple question and get all kinds of answers!

Yeah. The number of people it takes to screw in a lightbulb...

> Thanks for the info, it is always good to know. I have another question.
> Is there a way to do this with GPS? If am receiving the signal on a
> laptop with GPS, could I locate the signal or would I only be able to
> locate myself?

If 'the signal' is the network signal then you can find out whence it is
coming from (for example by using the method I showed - it helps if you're
a big guy like me). Write down the magnetic bearing whence it seems to
come (using a handheld compass) and the gps readout. Then move away with
all the equipment and from a second location take a second bearing and
write down coordinates and bearing. Now if you plot this on a map
(electronic or paper) then you will have two points and a bearing from
each. The point where the bearings intersect should be the transmitter.
Barring serious reflexions which will mislead you seriously. This is very
basic df. You will find tons of info at places like arrl.org and ham
websites. Look for df and triangulation.

Another way to seek the fox is to use the laptop as a 'divining rod', and
walk around with it, keep going towards stronger fieldstrength indication.
If this does not seem to lead anywhere (i.e. the maximum is in the middle
of nowhere, like in a park), then you're probably looking for a
directional antenna covering your area from a building or a tree.

> (can you tell I don't know much about wireless?)

You have to start somewhere. F.ex. I am not a ham because I never got
around to get a license but that does not mean I did not study for it ...

enjoy,

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 19:40:37 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:40:37 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: MacIntoshes
In-Reply-To: <20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064581161.10950.3.camel@yoda> <4F2CE77E-F06D-11D7-894B-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
 <20030926192257.51df301e.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
 <20030926194000.GA2336@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <20030927122300.6da50e0b.hgibson@eol.ca> <20030927124141.7a117fb7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <20030930234651.1ee737cc.hgibson@eol.ca> <20031001061017.691f44d6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012032200.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012203290.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031001153352.51043e3a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022236200.704@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> now what I do is tell Postfix to relay my mail through Sympatico's smtp
> server, and all is well. But you seem to be saying there is a way I
> could do this by "masquerading"...I'll have to do more reading
> obviously...

Read the scanonical and rcanonical relevant material in Postfix docs.
Briefly, for each user, in scanonical:

localuser-3WTUrles5xvYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org	realuser at isp.com

in rcanonical:

realuser-C43h488GkGQ at public.gmane.org	localuser at bogus.org

You can collect mail from any number of addresses like this. The operation
is called canonical envelope (address) rewriting. Sendmail is particularly
configurable here (and particularly hard to program too). Postfix is easy.

> This is where I'm really behind in terms of knowledge of how mail works.
> Isn't this where the RBL's come in? They say, "I cannot map this domain
> to a valid IP, therefore it is quite likely spam..." and either bounce
> it or /dev/null it?

RBL and other spam filters lock you out based on a set of rules, not just
origin. RBL in particular is a vote-system where a human decides whether
you're good or bad.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 19:46:30 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:46:30 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <20031001222945.GK1516-5ttTcWKSjlQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310011709350.10205@xword.rogers.com> <20031001222945.GK1516@seahorse>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022245550.704@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Andy Jack wrote:

> And what rhymes with "orange" anyway?

strange

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  2 19:49:35 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:49:35 +0300 (IDDT)
Subject: <OT> Wireless Access Point
In-Reply-To: <3F7B5047.1060407-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319118@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012018230.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F7B5047.1060407@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022247220.704@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, James Knott wrote:

> However, often with microwaves, a reflected signal may be stronger, if
> there's something on the direct path to the source, that attenuates the
> signal.

Yes but you can continue tracing from it after you find it.

> > This works because your body is mostly water, and 2.4GHz is absorbed
> > pretty well by water (microwave ovens work at 2.4GHz too). The field
> > strength indicator must have reasonable resolution for this to work (say
> > 3dB steps or finer).
> >
> > This trick works for most microwave equipment above 1.5GHz, including GPS
> > up to a point. Do not try it with active radar though.
>
> The principle is the same for all frequencies.  However, directional
> antennas are easier to obtain for the higher bands.

Large bags filled with salt water that can be easily ordered to move
around work well only at microwave frequencies (UHF and up). ;-)

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 23:25:16 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:25:16 +0200 (IST)
Subject: what program accesses a file?
In-Reply-To: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002111429.1c458d2d.anthony@unihedron.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310040125050.681@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Anthony Tekatch wrote:

> Is there a utility that can report on what is accessing a file like
> /dev/ttyS0 ?

man fuser

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 23:23:51 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:23:51 +0200 (IST)
Subject: SQL Queries....
In-Reply-To: <3F7C76E4.90000-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7C76E4.90000@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310040115190.681@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> I've been working with some SQL driven sights. Mostly Postgres and some
> MySQL, However I've never had to do this before:
>
> Does anyone know how to select only records that start with a certain
> letter?
>
> I can easly select records that contain the letter and order them
> properly, but that dosn't help much. :(

Look into regular expressions and the ~ match operator. Eg:

yada yada WHERE '^q' ~ my_favorite_column;

Peter
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 22:41:11 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:41:11 -0400
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022245550.704-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310011709350.10205@xword.rogers.com> <20031001222945.GK1516@seahorse> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022245550.704@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F7DFB07.3080303@rogers.com>

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Wed, 1 Oct 2003, Andy Jack wrote:
> 
> 
>>And what rhymes with "orange" anyway?
> 
> 
> strange
> 
mileage

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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 22:48:48 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 18:48:48 -0400
Subject: setting directory permissions
Message-ID: <3F7DFCD0.9040109@sympatico.ca>

 Once again, what should be simple is driving me nuts !
    background; pentiumIII, 500mhz, 512ram. Knoppix 3.2 based testing/ 
unstable debian.

after installing Knopix to the HD, I found I was unable to access 
several existing partitions as anything but root.
I figured it was an fstab thing but have tried all sorts of fstab 
permutations without success.
I have noticed that the permissions of the troubled /mnt/hd* directories 
are not set for user or group execute.
chmod 777 /mnt/hda1/ does nothing
nor does chmod a+x /mnt/hda1/
what am I doing wrong ? Why can I not change the attributes for these 
directories ?

help appreciated,
thanks,
Davamundo

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From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 23:58:17 2003
From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Mr6re90re4oug4)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 19:58:17 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <200310031410.30288.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310031958.17298.mr6re9@execulink.com>

On Friday 03 October 2003 14:10, Fraser Campbell wrote:
>
>
> What approaches do you guys take for tracking these things down?

If my software set-up's have not been monkey'd with for some time and the 
machine just started crashing and doing so more regularly, I would first 
check the hardware.

My AMD began thrashing and rebooting a week or so after the blackout. Nothing 
was added, updated or removed. What I found were a couple bad CAPS in the 
power supply and a fully mature dust bunny beneath the CPU fan.

I replaced the PS and flushed the bunny and all is well again...
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From login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 00:07:34 2003
From: login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:07:34 -0400 (EST)
Subject: tar process is keep running
Message-ID: <20031004000734.371D7174CC@ns.istop.com>


Here is our set-up:

OS:    		Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk
Tape Drive:  	VXA AutoPak 1x7 Autoloader 
tar:   		GNU tar 1.13.25

We are able to run this command sucessfully:

/bin/gtar -cvf /dev/st0 /dir/of/backup

where /dev/st0 is tape device and will backup "backup" directory

Now we want to restore a file from the tape device using

/bin/gtar -xvf /dev/st0 dir/of/backup/filename 

and we do restore the file "filename" within reasonable time 
depending on the size of the file but we never come back to 
system prompt. It appears (using strace -p process of the above
tar command) that /bin/gtar is keep reading the tape forever.

The file "filename" is seen ok and able to see its contents
and no problem in access / move / rm of this "filename".

On the net, it is suggested to put the "dir/of/backup/filename"
into a file called fooboo and then run the following command:

/bin/gtar -xvf -T fooboo /dev/st0

But same result, file is restored but process keep reading the
tape device forever.

Any one can shed some lights what are we missing? Thanks a lot.

S. Mohammad [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 00:07:27 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:07:27 -0400
Subject: setting directory permissions
In-Reply-To: <3F7DFCD0.9040109-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7DFCD0.9040109@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310032007.29181.marc@lijour.net>


mount is run by root, and root probably assumes the ownership of the files (do 
a ls -l to check that).

you could add the user, uid and gid options in fstab to let the user mount the 
partition.
You also have to use sudo to give yourself the permission to mount, and umount 
the partition.

It comes handy to mount the partition from the .profile file and to umount it 
with the .logout file.

Marc

Le 3 Octobre 2003 18:48, David J Patrick a ?crit :
>  Once again, what should be simple is driving me nuts !
>     background; pentiumIII, 500mhz, 512ram. Knoppix 3.2 based testing/
> unstable debian.
>
> after installing Knopix to the HD, I found I was unable to access
> several existing partitions as anything but root.
> I figured it was an fstab thing but have tried all sorts of fstab
> permutations without success.
> I have noticed that the permissions of the troubled /mnt/hd* directories
> are not set for user or group execute.
> chmod 777 /mnt/hda1/ does nothing
> nor does chmod a+x /mnt/hda1/
> what am I doing wrong ? Why can I not change the attributes for these
> directories ?
>
> help appreciated,
> thanks,
> Davamundo
>
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> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 00:11:15 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2003 20:11:15 -0400
Subject: tar process is keep running
In-Reply-To: <20031004000734.371D7174CC-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031004000734.371D7174CC@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310032011.16998.marc@lijour.net>

Le 3 Octobre 2003 20:07, login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org a ?crit :
> Here is our set-up:
>
> OS:    		Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk
> Tape Drive:  	VXA AutoPak 1x7 Autoloader
> tar:   		GNU tar 1.13.25
>
> We are able to run this command sucessfully:
>
> /bin/gtar -cvf /dev/st0 /dir/of/backup
>
> where /dev/st0 is tape device and will backup "backup" directory
>
> Now we want to restore a file from the tape device using
>
> /bin/gtar -xvf /dev/st0 dir/of/backup/filename
>
> and we do restore the file "filename" within reasonable time
> depending on the size of the file but we never come back to
> system prompt. It appears (using strace -p process of the above
> tar command) that /bin/gtar is keep reading the tape forever.
>
> The file "filename" is seen ok and able to see its contents
> and no problem in access / move / rm of this "filename".
>
> On the net, it is suggested to put the "dir/of/backup/filename"
> into a file called fooboo and then run the following command:
>
> /bin/gtar -xvf -T fooboo /dev/st0
>
> But same result, file is restored but process keep reading the
> tape device forever.
>
> Any one can shed some lights what are we missing? Thanks a lot.

Just an idea, have you tried the Mandrake "Wizard"-tool? (I think it is 
including in 8.2)

> S. Mohammad [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 03:06:07 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 23:06:07 -0400
Subject: Fwd: HP & IBM et al vs Sun
In-Reply-To: <20031003212321.48574772B5-QPFpHdAFK7nQBiVm0DiNavmHjWnys3SoVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031003212321.48574772B5@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com>
Message-ID: <3F7E391F.3090306@rogers.com>

> Does this guy have a history of writing inaccurate stories about Linux?

Check his resume, perhaps he used to work at the New York Times ;)

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 04:31:06 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 00:31:06 -0400
Subject: setting directory permissions - SOLVED
In-Reply-To: <200310032007.29181.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7DFCD0.9040109@sympatico.ca> <200310032007.29181.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F7E4D0A.6020100@sympatico.ca>

Yes, it was root grabbing ownership, alright !
the trouble was that I couldn't change mount point attributed while 
partitions were mounted
(but you knew that)
After umounting and setting uid & gid, in fstab, all's well !

thanks Marc !

davamundo


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 23:36:11 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:36:11 +0200 (IST)
Subject: DEBUG mail
In-Reply-To: <200310030044.29881.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310030044.29881.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310040133490.681@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> Is it possible to trace an email that has been sent through my server (via
> mailing-list application) and to somebody.
>
> This somebody claims that it did not received his copy. Is there a way I can
> make sure that the email actually leaved the computer in his direction?

If the server that sent it keeps full logs (like mine) then yes. You can
tell when it was sent etc. But few servers keep full logs. And keep in
mind that it ometimes happens for servers to go down hard and then the
mail is really lost, or can spend a few days, weeks or months on backup
tapes or in spoolers of servers which have bad dns access in the relevant
direction.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct  3 23:37:55 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 01:37:55 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310030124340.3555-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>       
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022133500.32647@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <13924.216.138.194.32.1065153525.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310030124340.3555@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310040136520.681@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 3 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

> Yeah I read that actually, but I was after a reference that IOS sat on
> top of QNX rather than BSD.

As far as I can conclude from a few discussions on another mailing list
some time ago, IOS sits directly on top of their hardware. There is
nothing 'under' it.

Peter
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 13:41:19 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 09:41:19 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <3F7DCB9C.1090805-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net> <3F7DCB9C.1090805@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200310040941.19935.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 03 October 2003 15:18, Ilya Palagin wrote:

> > When a server crashes and absolutely nothing interesting is in the logs
> > what does a person do?  I generally suspect hardware problems but when a
> > server
>
> Turn on the monitor to find out if there is a kernel panic. What
> actually happens when it crashes?

Nothing, it crashed ;-)  Seriously, no life, could not wake up the video, fans 
whirring but no other obvious signs that the computer is even on.

> > has been rock solid historically I don't put a lot of faith in that and
> > in any case it's just a guess.
>
> How old is it? Maybe it's time to clean contacts on SIMMs, run
> memtest86,  replace a power supply (electrolytic capasitors get dry in
> 2-3 years), make sure fans are good, run badblock?

What I  realized after sending the first email is that even though this server 
has historically been very stable (yes, 2-3 years) about 2 weeks ago it was 
pushed into some extra services (many more websites and went from 2 databases 
to 44).

Although the server still doesn't break a sweat there is significantly more 
processing going on.  I'm leaning towards bad ram in light of the fact that 
it's almost certainly using more ram and bad bits might be getting tickled 
that were previously unused.

> Crashes of stable Linux distributions don't happen on regular basis,
> there is no need in troubleshooting tips website :-). Seriously - if one
> starts to experience problems having no recent soft/config changes in
> the Linux system, hardware must be checked. I've listed the most weak
> parts above.

You are correct.  I've rarely had Linux server crashes and 99% of the time 
swapping out hardware has fixed them, or increasing resources in the event of 
OOM type problems.

Still there are so many possible Linux error messages, some common and not 
resulting in a crash, some more serious ... sometimes it's hard to find 
definitive answers.  For example:

    hda: timeout waiting for DMA

Wouldn't it be nice to have a knowledgebase somewhere telling you that this 
error is usually nothing to worry about unless accompanied by other errors, 
this error is a sign that you're using unsupported DMA modes, this error 
means that your that your motherboard needs to be replaced, ???

I just tried searching Redhat's knowledgebase for "timeout waiting for DMA" 
and the results are a joke. A total of 7 hits, first hit was "nsupdate not 
working", the second hit was "sendmail hangs at boot" dma matched because of 
senDMAil.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 13:55:03 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 09:55:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list use by spammers
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310040951050.14403@ns.istop.com>

It looks like the list is setup insecurely.  My guess is
tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org by-passes the subscriber checks.  I use majordomo
and after I had one of my customer lists hijacked, we changed the setup so
the outgoing alias was blocked for external (relayed) email; it would work
only for a local sendmail invokation.

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

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Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 19:24:51 +0900 (JST)
From: dreday1204-2kGRbplneOrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Message-Id: <200310041024.TAA22952-4rz0U7uU8va/ndMl/CqEr88NsWr+9BEh at public.gmane.org>
To: tluchor-2kGRbplneOrQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org
Subject: Turn back Your Aging Process Naturally
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/html

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From rgfranks-cmaem7PIVQT44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 15:22:36 2003
From: rgfranks-cmaem7PIVQT44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Greg Franks)
Date: 04 Oct 2003 11:22:36 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <200310022331.20781.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
	<20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20031002190042.GP13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<200310022331.20781.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <m3lls181tv.fsf@franks.dnsalias.com>

>>>>> "Fraser" == Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> writes:
    Fraser> Cisco definitely uses some x86 hardware.  PIX firewalls
    Fraser> are basically PCs, according to my docs (about 2 years old
    Fraser> I think) low end PIXes are Pentium200, high end PIX is
    Fraser> PIII-1000 ... they might now have more horsepower these
    Fraser> days but I expect they're still x86.

Open up some other boxes.  You'll find Power PC's in there.  i86's are
expensive parts, so if you want good margins (lol), use something
else.  (just look at what cisco charges for a 100baseT line card...)

IOS is not running on QNX (yet).  Some would claim that calling IOS an
OS is a bit of a stretch.

Juniper uses BSD, and I believe a muchly revised version of gated
(though don't quote me on that one!)

Using BSD for your control plane makes a lot of sense, IMO... you can
develop your code on a BSD box on your desk.  (The same applies with
QNX boxes, b.t.w.).  That's a lot easier than compiling and
downloading so some custom box elsewhere.

-- 
   __@               Greg Franks              <|       _~@ __O 
 _`\<,_         Ottawa, Ontario, Canada        |O\   -^\<;^\<, 
(*)/ (*)                                       (*)--(*)%---/(*)
          "Where do you want to go today?"   Outside.  
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 15:26:46 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:26:46 -0400
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001135305.5fa042d4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <20031004112646.3c810292.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 14:52:56 -0400
Phillip Mills <pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I'm still trying to get enough information to feel comfortable about 
> sticking a second hard drive in my PC with some hope of it working.
> 
> The machine is a Dell XPS B733: Pentium 3, about 3 or 4 years old.  I 
> went shopping yesterday and the first person I talked to who sounded 
> knowledgeable said that a current 40GB drive would *probably* work, but 
> larger ones might not be recognized by the IDE controller.  My user 
> manual says the Dell uses ATA-33 (which I assume matches the 33Mhz PCI 
> bus speed), while current drives all refer to ATA-133.  The 
> salesperson's not-very-reassuring comment was that the 133 drives 
> should be backward compatible to 100...and then I started wondering 
> whether he was talking about RAM speeds instead.
> 
> So, as usual, the more I think about PC hardware, the more confused I 
> become.  I used to run Linux on one of my Macs and I'm having trouble 
> remembering why I switched.  Oh, ya...someone gave me a free Intel box! 
>   :-)
> 
> Anyone willing to share some relevant facts?

Phillip,

   Here is the extreme case.

   I have recently installed 40GB hard drive in my Pentium II/350.  The motherboard does not recognize hard drives this size, so I wound up having to get a Promise card.  I had a few hassles with this, but right now, everything works really well.  My only problem is my CDROM based backup.  My directory has not gotten large enough yet to cause problems, but it is only a matter of time.

   I will be putting my installation note up on the web sometime soon. 

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 15:57:02 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 11:57:02 -0400
Subject: SQL Queries....
In-Reply-To: <20031003030405.CC3EC3FF5-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7C76E4.90000@alteeve.com> <20031003030405.CC3EC3FF5@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <3F7EEDCE.8060309@truxtar.com>

MySQL also supports regular expressions by replacing 'LIKE' with 'RLIKE'.

Also, I think that MySQL is case-insensitive by default (unless you use 
the BLOB type).

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

>PostgreSQL also supports, using the ~ operator, pretty full-scale
>regular expressions.
>
>So, you might have a query to look for people with names starting with
>"B":
>
>  select * from some_table where name like 'B%';
>
>If you need case insensitivity, you might use:
>
>  select * from some_table where lower(name) like 'b%';
>
>  
>


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From mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 15:59:17 2003
From: mr6re9-mI4xJ4qlgtBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (Mr6re90re4oug4)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 11:59:17 -0400
Subject: list use by spammers
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310040951050.14403-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310040951050.14403@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310041159.17307.mr6re9@execulink.com>

Actually the only message I got from this list tagged as spam was yours...

On Saturday 04 October 2003 09:55, you wrote:
> Spam detection software, running on the system "farmer6re90", has
> identified this incoming email as possible spam.  The original message
> has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or block
> similar future email.  If you have any questions, see
> the administrator of that system for details.
>
> Content preview:  It looks like the list is setup insecurely. My guess is
>   tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org by-passes the subscriber checks. I use majordomo
>   and after I had one of my customer lists hijacked, we changed the setup
>   so the outgoing alias was blocked for external (relayed) email; it
>   would work only for a local sendmail invokation. [...]
>
> Content analysis details:   (6.1 points, 5.0 required)
>
>  pts rule name              description
> ---- ----------------------
> -------------------------------------------------- 0.6 CLICK_BELOW_CAPS    
>   BODY: Asks you to click below (in capital letters) 0.6 HAIR_LOSS         
>     BODY: Cures Baldness
>  1.9 INCREASE_SEX           BODY: Talks about a bigger drive for sex
>  0.0 LINES_OF_YELLING       BODY: A WHOLE LINE OF YELLING DETECTED
>  1.1 MAILTO_TO_SPAM_ADDR    URI: Includes a link to a likely spammer email
>  2.0 HG_HORMONE             Talks about hormones for human growth

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 18:36:27 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 14:36:27 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7D1419.5090200-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031004183627.GB24229@m450>

On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 02:15:53AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote

> By the way, you need to replace bf2.4, this kernel is for fail-safe 
> installation only :-)
> 
> Now install a real one:
> $apt-cache search kernel-image
> then choose the one which conforms you CPU and apt-get it.

  Done... although I did find out why it was a good thing that I made a
boot floppy<g>.  The instructions gave the wrong naming format for the
initrd image, resulting in a kernel panic when it couldn't be found.  I
booted from the rescue floppy and listed off the /boot directory.  There
I found initrd.img-2.4.18-686 rather than initrd-2.4.18-686.img.  I made
the appropriate change to lilo.conf and got back to booting.  My
remaining issues are...

  1) The ftp server xanim.va.pubnix.com ia refusing connections (I've
confirmed this manually).  To install some xanime codecs, dselect wants
to connect to ftp://xanim.va.pubnix.com/dlls/ and download the files...

vid_cvid_2.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
vid_cyuv_1.0_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
vid_h261_1.0_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
vid_h263_1.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
vid_iv32_2.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
vid_iv41_1.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
vid_iv50_1.0_linuxELFx86c6.tgz

Does anybody know of alternate sources?

  2) My 433 and 450 mhz machines are underpowered for GNOME/KDE.  What
I've done with Redhat was to install GNOME+KDE, but switch to FVWM for a
window manager.  It runs the GNOME+KDE *APPLICATIONS* just fine, without
the overhead of a GNOME/KDE *DESKTOP*.  I've got two questions here...
  a) I've somehow ended up logging into X on bootup.  KDE base *DEMANDS*
gdm, so my question is how do I turn off gdm without removing it
altogether.  I've tried using update-rc.d, but I've gotten nowhere.  I
suppose I could manually remove /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm or rename it to K99gdm.
But will that foul up anything else ?
  b) I've installed FVWM.  I can't find switchdesk, which does the
config setup to switch from GNOME to KDE or FVWM or whatever.  How do I
do this in Debian.

  3) What is the Debian equivalant to /etc/rc.local


-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 18:54:22 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 14:54:22 -0400
Subject: Second hard drive: Part 2
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012326250.24205@zen.canint.timetraveller
 .org>
References: <1065038282.7941.6.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
 <782FE9D5-F440-11D7-AA16-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
 <1065038282.7941.6.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310012326250.24205@zen.canint.timetraveller
 .org>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031004145212.02286260@mail.interlog.com>

At 11:29 PM 10/01/2003 -0400, Rob wrote:
>IIRC there are also parameters you can pass
>to lilo to get it to see drives in a certain way too.

Only parameter I use with LILO is 'lba32' with my 40GB drive. The drive is 
set up as LBA access in the BIOS.

When I first put the drive in the machine (a PII/266), it wasn't able to 
see the full size of the drive. I flashed the motherboard BIOS and no 
problems accessing and using it fully after that.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 19:45:23 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 15:45:23 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031004183627.GB24229-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450>
Message-ID: <3F7F2353.6040203@truxtar.com>

I don't know the answer to your first question, but I may be able to 
help you with the rest.

waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>  2) My 433 and 450 mhz machines are underpowered for GNOME/KDE.  What
>I've done with Redhat was to install GNOME+KDE, but switch to FVWM for a
>window manager.  It runs the GNOME+KDE *APPLICATIONS* just fine, without
>the overhead of a GNOME/KDE *DESKTOP*.  I've got two questions here...
>  a) I've somehow ended up logging into X on bootup.  KDE base *DEMANDS*
>gdm, so my question is how do I turn off gdm without removing it
>altogether.  I've tried using update-rc.d, but I've gotten nowhere.  I
>suppose I could manually remove /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm or rename it to K99gdm.
>But will that foul up anything else ?
>  
>
Look in /etc/inittab and see which run level starts gdm.  Then change 
the default runlevel near the top
of the file to 3 (I think.  I could also be 2).

>  b) I've installed FVWM.  I can't find switchdesk, which does the
>config setup to switch from GNOME to KDE or FVWM or whatever.  How do I
>do this in Debian.
>  
>
I am not sure about Debian.  In Redhat you edit the .XClients (or 
.xclients).  Also try one of the
.xinitrc files.

>  3) What is the Debian equivalant to /etc/rc.local
>
>
>  
>
/etc/rc.d/rc.local should be the standard location on most SysV style 
systems.

Hope I helped.  Someone with Debian experience please correct me if I am 
wrong.

--

Anton Markov


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 22:17:51 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 18:17:51 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031004183627.GB24229-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450>
Message-ID: <3F7F470F.3060605@rogers.com>

waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
...
> booted from the rescue floppy and listed off the /boot directory.  There
> I found initrd.img-2.4.18-686 rather than initrd-2.4.18-686.img.  I made
> the appropriate change to lilo.conf and got back to booting.  My
AFAIR, it should offer to create a link to initrd, in this case 
everything is OK.

> remaining issues are...
> 
>   1) The ftp server xanim.va.pubnix.com ia refusing connections (I've
> confirmed this manually).  To install some xanime codecs, dselect wants
> to connect to ftp://xanim.va.pubnix.com/dlls/ and download the files...
> 
> vid_cvid_2.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
> vid_cyuv_1.0_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
> vid_h261_1.0_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
> vid_h263_1.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
> vid_iv32_2.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
> vid_iv41_1.1_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
> vid_iv50_1.0_linuxELFx86c6.tgz
> 
> Does anybody know of alternate sources?
I don't. Do you need xanim to watch video? If so, it's better to use 
xine or mplayer. Go to http://www.apt-get.org (one of the most wonderful 
Debian resources :-)) and search for these apps, look for "stable" 
packages, note the "deb" line for your /etc/apt/source.list in the 
search results. Don't forget to execute `apt-get update` after adding 
this line, then just apt-get mplayer or xine.

> 
>   2) My 433 and 450 mhz machines are underpowered for GNOME/KDE.  What
> I've done with Redhat was to install GNOME+KDE, but switch to FVWM for a
> window manager.  It runs the GNOME+KDE *APPLICATIONS* just fine, without
> the overhead of a GNOME/KDE *DESKTOP*.  I've got two questions here...
>   a) I've somehow ended up logging into X on bootup.  KDE base *DEMANDS*
> gdm, so my question is how do I turn off gdm without removing it
> altogether.  I've tried using update-rc.d, but I've gotten nowhere.  I
> suppose I could manually remove /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm or rename it to K99gdm.
> But will that foul up anything else ?
It's not recommended to modify /etc/rc* manually. Just execute:

$update-rc.d -f gdm remove
$update-rc.d -f kdm remove
$update-rc.d -f xdm remove

Also, check /etc/inittab for default runlevel:
# The default runlevel.
id:2:initdefault:


>   b) I've installed FVWM.  I can't find switchdesk, which does the
> config setup to switch from GNOME to KDE or FVWM or whatever.  How do I
> do this in Debian.
There are wmanager and selectwm instead of switchdesk.

> 
>   3) What is the Debian equivalant to /etc/rc.local
> 
> 
Put your custom startup scripts into /etc/init.d and create symlinks in 
/etc/rcS.d, there is README for details. If you prefer, you may create 
/etc/init.d/rc.local and softlink it with /etc/rcS.d/S61rc.local.

Also, if you're going to use rc.local just for hdparm, setserial, etc, 
you don't need rc.local.  Instead, install hwtools and edit 
/etc/init.d/hwtools


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 23:11:49 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 19:11:49 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <200310040941.19935.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net> <3F7DCB9C.1090805@rogers.com> <200310040941.19935.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F7F53B5.6000405@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
...
> 
> Still there are so many possible Linux error messages, some common and not 
> resulting in a crash, some more serious ... sometimes it's hard to find 
> definitive answers.  For example:
> 
>     hda: timeout waiting for DMA
> 
> Wouldn't it be nice to have a knowledgebase somewhere telling you that this 
> error is usually nothing to worry about unless accompanied by other errors, 
> this error is a sign that you're using unsupported DMA modes, this error 
> means that your that your motherboard needs to be replaced, ???
Well, I would love to have a kb like this!  The problem is that the 
message you mentioned can be caused by too many reasons (just search 
google): from bad IDE cable and faulty hard drive to wrong DMA options 
in kernel config. In the most cases the real reason for a warning or an 
error depends on the global configuration, which is always unique. Once 
upon a time I was interested to find a reason for a "lost interrupt" 
message appearing on the console after I started CD burning. I didn't 
suspect that this subject is so good for researching  - there are a lot 
if issues with hardware and kernel. Finally I followed the suggestion: 
"you can safely ignore this message". :-)

> 
> I just tried searching Redhat's knowledgebase for "timeout waiting for DMA" 
> and the results are a joke. A total of 7 hits, first hit was "nsupdate not 
> working", the second hit was "sendmail hangs at boot" dma matched because of 
> senDMAil.
> 
google is a much better knowledgebase :-)

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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct  4 23:41:30 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 19:41:30 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7F2353.6040203-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450> <3F7F2353.6040203@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <3F7F5AAA.30808@rogers.com>

Anton Markov wrote:
..
> /etc/rc.d/rc.local should be the standard location on most SysV style 
> systems.
> 
> Hope I helped.  Someone with Debian experience please correct me if I am 
> wrong.
Debian is the most "accurate" Linux distribution, and I guess that it 
doesn't use rc.local to be more simple and more "exact" about /etc/rc 
commands execution. Using rc.local for system startup, one has to create 
additional scripts in /etc/init.d and link them to /etc/rc.*, if he 
wants to start or stop services with runlevel changes. With Debian, one 
just creates all he needs in /etc/init.d and links it with runlevels or 
rcS.d, no messing up with rc.local.


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 02:30:55 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 22:30:55 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7F2353.6040203-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450> <3F7F2353.6040203@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <200310042230.55585.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 04 October 2003 15:45, Anton Markov wrote:

> Look in /etc/inittab and see which run level starts gdm.  Then change
> the default runlevel near the top
> of the file to 3 (I think.  I could also be 2).

Debian doesn't start gdm/xdm/kdm from inittab.  With Debian you get runlevel 0 
(halt), runlevel 1 (single user), runlevel 2 (multi-user), runlevel 6 
(reboot).  Starting/stopping gdm is no different that starting/stopping any 
other daemon ... /etc/init.d/gdm start|stop

If you install gdm, kdm and xdm you can choose which display manager is the 
one actually started by running "dpkg-reconfigure packagename".

> >  b) I've installed FVWM.  I can't find switchdesk, which does the
> >config setup to switch from GNOME to KDE or FVWM or whatever.  How do I
> >do this in Debian.
>
> I am not sure about Debian.  In Redhat you edit the .XClients (or
> .xclients).  Also try one of the
> .xinitrc files.

That's probably a redhatism.  In Debian I have an executable file in my home 
named .xsession, it contains the following line:

    /usr/bin/ssh-agent /usr/bin/startkde

If you use gdm for your display manager then it should offer a drop down list 
of window managers to start, that's an alternative way to do it.  My 
.xsession file was from a few version of Debian ago but I'm pretty sure that 
it's still used.

> >  3) What is the Debian equivalant to /etc/rc.local
>
> /etc/rc.d/rc.local should be the standard location on most SysV style
> systems.

Not sure what standards there might be but in Debian your startup scripts are 
expected to be in /etc/init.d/ .  If you need to do some custom startup stuff 
the just create a script /etc/init.d/whatever and make sure that it gets call 
during boot (either by making a bunch of links or by using the update-rc.d 
utility).

Not sure what you want to do with rc.local though, I don't recall ever needing 
it on Debian, there's always a package or config file where most things can 
be done.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 05:21:14 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 01:21:14 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <3F7F53B5.6000405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net> <3F7DCB9C.1090805@rogers.com> <200310040941.19935.fraser@wehave.net> <3F7F53B5.6000405@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F7FAA4A.5050903@rogers.com>

> Well, I would love to have a kb like this!  The problem is that the 
> message you mentioned can be caused by too many reasons (just search 
> google): from bad IDE cable and faulty hard drive to wrong DMA options

Ya pays your money and ya takes yer chances... I've had boxen run for 
almost a year with the HDD SMART indicators going off. Never a problem. 
So, of course, I ignored it when my box at work started doing it a month 
ago. The disk ate it hard on Wednesday and needed to be replaced.

I guess the moral of the story is that you can't rely on error messages, 
they are only a guide. You gotta go with your instincts but it pays to 
have contingency plans.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 05:31:21 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 01:31:21 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7F470F.3060605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450> <3F7F470F.3060605@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031005053120.GA26248@m450>

On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 06:17:51PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote

> Also, if you're going to use rc.local just for hdparm, setserial,
> etc, you don't need rc.local.  Instead, install hwtools and edit
> /etc/init.d/hwtools

  It turned out that editing /etc/console-tools/config did what I
wanted, so no need for extra scripts.  The standard VGA text console is
640 pixels X 400 scanlines.  The standard font is 8 X 16.  This gives

640           400
--- columns X --- rows = 80 X 25 display.  Really wastefull on a 17"
  8            16

display.  Putting VGA=6 into lilo.conf selects the 640 X 480 textmode
with 8 X 8 font.  That gives 80 x 60 display, but that's hard on the
eyes.  I prefer VGA=6 with a /etc/console-tools/config entry of
SCREEN_FONT=lat1-12.psf.gz
which gives 480/12 = 40 row display.  The 12-pixel-high font is *MUCH*
nicer than the 80 X 43 display (EGA 640 X 350 textmode with 8 X 8 font).
On my one 19" monitor, I use lat1-10, which gives 480/10 = 48 rows.  The
10-pixel-high font gives a nicer display than standard 80 X 50 mode.
That's the Redhat machine, which requires SVGATextMode to do that.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 06:32:56 2003
From: markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Fiifi Markin)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 06:32:56 +0000
Subject: linux on inspiron 8500
Message-ID: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6@hotmail.com>

hi everyone,
i just installed rh9 on my dell inspiron 8500, but i cannot get the wireless 
mini pci to work, not even the broadcom network adapter is working, can 
someone help me out here........

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From drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 07:09:29 2003
From: drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org (Andrew G. Hammond)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 03:09:29 -0400
Subject: poetry
In-Reply-To: <20031001222945.GK1516-5ttTcWKSjlQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031001205818.38540.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310011709350.10205@xword.rogers.com> <20031001222945.GK1516@seahorse>
Message-ID: <3F7FC3A9.8040602@xyzzy.dhs.org>

Neither does it take into account half rhymes or phrasal rhymes.

Andy Jack wrote:

>On Wed, Oct 01, 2003 at 05:15:52PM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>  
>
>>      Use grep, anchored at the end of the word, to seach for the part
>>      of the word you want to match:
>>
>>grep ould$ /usr/share/dict/UKACD15a.TXT
>>    
>>
>
>This won't always work of course, because "would" rhymes with "wood"
>(false negative), and "wood" doesn't rhyme with "food" (false positve).
>Poetic license might be okay with food and wood.
>
>And what rhymes with "orange" anyway?
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 07:39:19 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 03:39:19 -0400
Subject: linux on inspiron 8500
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200310050339.20655.marc@lijour.net>

Have you tried a google search first?
I have an inspiron 2500 and I found many links to personal pages and 
interesting tips in them.

There exists also a dedicated linux on laptop site.

Le 5 Octobre 2003 02:32, Fiifi Markin a ?crit :
> hi everyone,
> i just installed rh9 on my dell inspiron 8500, but i cannot get the
> wireless mini pci to work, not even the broadcom network adapter is
> working, can someone help me out here........
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
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From markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 09:30:03 2003
From: markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Fiifi Markin)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:30:03 +0000
Subject: linux on inspiron 8500
Message-ID: <BAY2-F62FTLm4GzCla20001486f@hotmail.com>


is ur wireless connection working?
yes that is the frist thing that i did(google)

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From wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 13:03:29 2003
From: wooik-sIZ5AmKAnwVWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (WK)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:03:29 -0400
Subject: linux on inspiron 8500
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F8016A1.3020209@halfmind.com>

Fiifi Markin wrote:

> hi everyone,
> i just installed rh9 on my dell inspiron 8500, but i cannot get the 
> wireless mini pci to work, not even the broadcom network adapter is 
> working, can someone help me out here........
> 

The wireless adapter on my Dell Latitude D600 doesn't work under linux. 
  It uses broadcom chipset, and I don't think it works with linux, yet.

WK.


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 13:30:51 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 09:30:51 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <3F7FAA4A.5050903-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net> <3F7DCB9C.1090805@rogers.com> <200310040941.19935.fraser@wehave.net> <3F7F53B5.6000405@rogers.com> <3F7FAA4A.5050903@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F801D0B.6070906@rogers.com>

Byron Sonne wrote:
...
> I guess the moral of the story is that you can't rely on error messages, 
> they are only a guide. You gotta go with your instincts but it pays to 
> have contingency plans.
> 
Exactly, but instead of "instincts" I would say "intuition and 
experience" :-)

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 15:06:32 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:06:32 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7F5AAA.30808-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com>
 <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com>
 <20031004183627.GB24229@m450> <3F7F2353.6040203@truxtar.com>
 <3F7F5AAA.30808@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310051705370.533@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 4 Oct 2003, Ilya Palagin wrote:

> Anton Markov wrote:
> ..
> > /etc/rc.d/rc.local should be the standard location on most SysV style
> > systems.
> >
> > Hope I helped.  Someone with Debian experience please correct me if I am
> > wrong.
> Debian is the most "accurate" Linux distribution, and I guess that it
> doesn't use rc.local to be more simple and more "exact" about /etc/rc
> commands execution. Using rc.local for system startup, one has to create
> additional scripts in /etc/init.d and link them to /etc/rc.*, if he
> wants to start or stop services with runlevel changes. With Debian, one
> just creates all he needs in /etc/init.d and links it with runlevels or
> rcS.d, no messing up with rc.local.

You are explaining the difference between System V style init (the one you
prefer) and plain init (BSD style which uses rc.local extensively - like
Slackware f.ex.).

Peter
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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 15:50:13 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:50:13 -0400
Subject: linux on inspiron 8500
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200310051150.13809.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

http://ltswww.epfl.ch/~dsanta/resources/dell-i8500-linux
http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/G.Wilford/Inspiron8500/
http://www.garshol.priv.no/download/i8500/

On Sunday 05 October 2003 2:32 am, Fiifi Markin wrote:
> hi everyone,
> i just installed rh9 on my dell inspiron 8500, but i cannot get the
> wireless mini pci to work, not even the broadcom network adapter is
> working, can someone help me out here........
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 15:56:02 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 05 Oct 2003 11:56:02 -0400
Subject: Open source comes to car parts
In-Reply-To: <1065187132.19434.0.camel-C5Qn8pvFeXd9eUcvBT9MJMxtgHpCUUYS@public.gmane.org>
References: <00b801c38947$972ba890$0200a8c0@jimslaptop> 
	<1065187132.19434.0.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>
Message-ID: <1065369362.7258.2.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-10-03 at 09:18, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> Sounds too un-American to catch on here.

Well, based on the current market-share stats, either the Big Three
automakers aren't American enough, or the American Market.

Kareem

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/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby
  become a monster.  And if you gaze for long into an abyss,
  the abyss gazes also into you.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche
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From denis_mir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 16:28:51 2003
From: denis_mir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Denis Mironnenko)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 16:28:51 +0000
Subject: Gentoo installation error
Message-ID: <Sea2-F47UJVKji15gyG0000e80f@hotmail.com>

I am trying to install Gentoo using State 1 tarball. After doing emerge 
there is a message saying that I should do an update. But update fails when 
trying to install ncurses the message is

configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check

What does this mean? Am I misssing some library?

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From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 17:22:35 2003
From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:22:35 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031004183627.GB24229-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450>
Message-ID: <200310051322.35561.mervc@eol.ca>

On October 4, 2003 02:36 pm, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   2) My 433 and 450 mhz machines are underpowered for GNOME/KDE.  What
> I've done with Redhat was to install GNOME+KDE, but switch to FVWM for a
> window manager.  It runs the GNOME+KDE *APPLICATIONS* just fine, without
> the overhead of a GNOME/KDE *DESKTOP*.  I've got two questions here...
>   a) I've somehow ended up logging into X on bootup.  KDE base *DEMANDS*
> gdm, so my question is how do I turn off gdm without removing it
> altogether.  I've tried using update-rc.d, but I've gotten nowhere.  I
> suppose I could manually remove /etc/rc2.d/S99gdm or rename it to K99gdm.
> But will that foul up anything else ?

I don't think KDE demands GDM,  maybe Debian.
I run Libranet-Debian  and I have removed gdm and replaced it with kdm.  
There is is one or the other.  If apt-get (Synaptic) installs kdm it 
removes gdm and adjusts all the scripts.  I think it is Debian, not 
Libranet specific.  

>   b) I've installed FVWM.  I can't find switchdesk, which does the
> config setup to switch from GNOME to KDE or FVWM or whatever.  How do I
> do this in Debian.
>
From the kdm or gdm login managers.  Should have been that way in Red Hat 

Have fun

Merv

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From tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 18:03:55 2003
From: tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org (Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 14:03:55 -0400
Subject: PDF/gs or LaTeX problem
Message-ID: <E1A6DEZ-0004RA-00@cage.robertsearle.com>

Nope.  The dvi is fine!  The postscript produced by
dvips is fine.  The only trouble seems to be 
in the ps2pdf....

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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 18:09:22 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 05 Oct 2003 14:09:22 -0400
Subject: linux on inspiron 8500
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F3trjep6f8iin6000143c6@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <ltllrzblpp.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

"Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> writes:

> hi everyone,
> i just installed rh9 on my dell inspiron 8500, but i cannot get the wireless
> mini pci to work, not even the broadcom network adapter is working, can
> someone help me out here........

I have an Inspiron 1100.  I can't help with the wireless because it doesn't
come with on-board wirless.  However, it does have an on-board Broadcom 4401
NIC.  Drivers are available from the Broadcomm web site.  Sorry, I don't have
the URL handy but it wasn't hard to find once I knew where to look.

Also, my on-board modem is a software modem and is supported in Linux
with drivers available from http://www.linuxant.com.  I grabbed the
hsflinmodem-5.03.27lnxtbeta03042700.tar.gz tarball.

HTH,

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
tollfree: 1-87-pro-linux                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 18:15:40 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 05 Oct 2003 14:15:40 -0400
Subject: PDF/gs or LaTeX problem
In-Reply-To: <E1A6DEZ-0004RA-00-ccNqUECLMvKqFW/nG5b3zmXnswh1EIUO@public.gmane.org>
References: <E1A6DEZ-0004RA-00@cage.robertsearle.com>
Message-ID: <1065377741.7258.22.camel@yoda>

On Sun, 2003-10-05 at 14:03, Mailing List wrote:
> Nope.  The dvi is fine!  The postscript produced by
> dvips is fine.  The only trouble seems to be 
> in the ps2pdf....

Have you tried dvipdf or pdflatex?

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby
  become a monster.  And if you gaze for long into an abyss,
  the abyss gazes also into you.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche
 ********************************************************************/

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 19:50:08 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 15:50:08 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <3F7F470F.3060605-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450> <3F7F470F.3060605@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031005195008.GA2611@m450>

On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 06:17:51PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote

> I don't. Do you need xanim to watch video? If so, it's better to use 
> xine or mplayer. Go to http://www.apt-get.org (one of the most wonderful 
> Debian resources :-)) and search for these apps, look for "stable" 
> packages, note the "deb" line for your /etc/apt/source.list in the 
> search results. Don't forget to execute `apt-get update` after adding 
> this line, then just apt-get mplayer or xine.

  A general security question here; is there a way get a list of
new/upgraded packages broken down by site?  Specifically, packages at
security.debian.org.  Any way to list security updates only for packages
that I have currently installed ?  "ls -al /var/lib/apt/lists" seems to
be a possible beginning to this process.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 20:40:16 2003
From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:40:16 -0400
Subject: Audio system to computer
Message-ID: <200310051640.16534.mervc@eol.ca>

Hi audiofile

I have decided to try and move my old vinyl and maybe 78's records to ogg, 
wav, or whatever files on the computer.  I have found some programs which 
seem to be at a level I can figure out.
  
I have taken the line-out of my amp and fed it to the line-in of the audio 
card and I wasn't surprised at the result.  Now if I can just get rid of 
the hum,  ground loop?,  I could get started.

Apparently no audio cards have ground isolation and I don't want to build 
something out of transformers, optical transducers etc.  What did you do to 
solve this?

One thing that has come to mind is a little fm transmitter [ Radio Shack ] 
at the Amp end and use a battery operated receiver at the computer.  That 
avoids the cable running across the room but it might not be the best 
quality. 

Other suggestions?   Thanks

Merv


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From amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 20:54:25 2003
From: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org (Alex Maynard)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:54:25 -0400
Subject: Trouble using e-macs remotely
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022107530.10205-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310022107530.10205@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.40.0310051653130.3676097-100000@origin.chass.utoronto.ca>


Hi Chris  -- Thanks very much for you help. Unfortunately, my computer's
now having bigger problems, so I haven't gotten a chance to try out your
suggestion yet. -- Alex

On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Alex Maynard wrote:
>
> > I was wondering if anyone has seen this problem before or has any
> > suggestions:
> >
> > I'm trying to edit a file on a remote machine (running redhat) using emacs
> > after logging in via ssh from fvmr xwindow on Debian.
> >
> > The problem is when I emacs the file I get a bunch of ping like sounds
> > without like the one below that just keeps going on and on.  (Using a
> > non-Xwindows terminal I don't get this problems, but that's a lot less
> > convenient)
> >
> > ;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2\
> > c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;\
> > 2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1\
> > ;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c\
> > 1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2\
> > c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;\
> > 2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1;2c1
> >
> > Has anyone else run into this?  Does anyone know of any simple
> > solutions or work arounds?
>
>       It's probably an incorrect TERM setting.
>
>       What are you using?
>
>       Try: xterm, vt100, ansi, linux; one of them should work.
>
> --
> 	Chris F.A. Johnson
> 	=================================================================
> 	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

------------
Alex Maynard
Assistant Professor
Department of Economics
University of Toronto
150 St. George St., N304
Toronto ON M5S 3G7
Canada
e-mail: amaynard-vQ8rsROW2HJSpjfjxSPG1fd9D2ou9A/h at public.gmane.org
tel: (416) 978-4358


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From drl4967-nE92ml7/ZJ6Vc3sceRu5cw at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 21:00:01 2003
From: drl4967-nE92ml7/ZJ6Vc3sceRu5cw at public.gmane.org (Dan Lang)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:00:01 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Gentoo installation error
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F47UJVKji15gyG0000e80f-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F47UJVKji15gyG0000e80f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0310051553040.5781@procyon.cis.ksu.edu>



On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Denis Mironnenko wrote:

> I am trying to install Gentoo using State 1 tarball. After doing emerge
> there is a message saying that I should do an update. But update fails when
> trying to install ncurses the message is
>
> configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
>
> What does this mean? Am I misssing some library?
>
You should rsync emerge first.

'emerge rsync'
then you have to run the bootstrap.sh script. this builds binutils, gcc,
gettext and glibc
'#cd /usr/portage'
'#scripts/bootstrap.sh'

It sounds like you didn't get above installed, so run the bootstrap.sh
script.  After that run,
'#emerge -u system'

That will install a base system and you can have fun after that.

All of this is in the documenatation btw:
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml

Cheers,

Dan Lang
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 17:13:51 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:13:51 -0400
Subject: Audio system to computer
In-Reply-To: <200310051640.16534.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>; from mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org on Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 16:40:16 -0400
References: <200310051640.16534.mervc@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20031005171351.GA6487@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 10/05/2003 04:40:16 PM, Merv Curley wrote:
> I have taken the line-out of my amp and fed it to the line-in of the audio
> card and I wasn't surprised at the result.  Now if I can just get rid of
> the hum,  ground loop?,  I could get started.

The obvious answer would be to use a mixer with a ground post as your preamp  
and ground loop.  Even cheap radio shack mixers with phono inputs have ground  
posts.  It would probably also have a better preamp than your sound card  
would.

I highly recommend this route.

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 21:25:04 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:25:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php mail() function not working
Message-ID: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


redhat-7.3
apache-1.3.27-3
php-4.1.2

This just started recently, in the last week or 2. I have a few different
websites running on my server, many of them php intensive running postnuke
or envolution, etc. On the very light sites, I just use php for contact
forms using mail(). All was working well, until when I wrote a script for
my last site. It didn't send. I've pared the script back to the very basic
elements of a message, but it still doesn't work.

The only thing I can think of is that the apache security fix supplied by
up2date broke the mail() function.

Here's what I know: After submitting a form, a new browser window opens
(unintended) with the address of http://www.domain.dom/contact.php (the
name of the script called in the form action). The only related entry in
any of the logs is this one in both the apache error_log and maillog:
postdrop: warning: mail_queue_enter: create file maildrop/613100.25414:
Permission denied

I've asked about this error message on the postfix list, and so have
others. The only replies have been to kill the processes, but there's no
explanation about why this happens or how to correct it.

As for asking on a php users list, the only one for Toronto seems to have
one member.

I've uninstalled and re-installed mysql, php and apache, using the rpm -i
on the latest packages they've released. I've checked the configs and the
code, looking for something, but the only constant is the mail() function
doesn't work. I'm really stumped here.

Here's the code:
contact.php:
<?php
mail("info-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org",
"Contact form test",
"$comments"
);
?>

html form:
<form name="contact" action="contact.php" method="post">
<textarea name="comments" cols="40" rows="4"></textarea><br>
<input type="reset" value="Clear"><br>
<input type="submit" name="Send" value="Send">

Any help is appreciated. Thanks


-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 21:51:20 2003
From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:51:20 -0400
Subject: tar process is keep running
In-Reply-To: <20031004000734.371D7174CC-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031004000734.371D7174CC@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCGEIICFAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>

Does the reading ever end?  When doing a tar restore, tar will scan the
entire tape looking for the file you want to restore.  Because multiple
copies of the same file can be on the tape tar keeps looking to make sure it
has the latest one, the on it finds last.

Grant Cullen
JADALL Consulting Ltd.
grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of
login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 20:08
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Re: tar process is keep running



Here is our set-up:

OS:    		Mandrake Linux 8.2 2.96-0.76mdk
Tape Drive:  	VXA AutoPak 1x7 Autoloader
tar:   		GNU tar 1.13.25

We are able to run this command sucessfully:

/bin/gtar -cvf /dev/st0 /dir/of/backup

where /dev/st0 is tape device and will backup "backup" directory

Now we want to restore a file from the tape device using

/bin/gtar -xvf /dev/st0 dir/of/backup/filename

and we do restore the file "filename" within reasonable time
depending on the size of the file but we never come back to
system prompt. It appears (using strace -p process of the above
tar command) that /bin/gtar is keep reading the tape forever.

The file "filename" is seen ok and able to see its contents
and no problem in access / move / rm of this "filename".

On the net, it is suggested to put the "dir/of/backup/filename"
into a file called fooboo and then run the following command:

/bin/gtar -xvf -T fooboo /dev/st0

But same result, file is restored but process keep reading the
tape device forever.

Any one can shed some lights what are we missing? Thanks a lot.

S. Mohammad [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 21:59:17 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:59:17 -0400
Subject: Audio system to computer
In-Reply-To: <200310051640.16534.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310051640.16534.mervc@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F809435.60702@rogers.com>

Merv Curley wrote:
> Hi audiofile
> 
> I have decided to try and move my old vinyl and maybe 78's records to ogg, 
> wav, or whatever files on the computer.  I have found some programs which 
> seem to be at a level I can figure out.
>   
> I have taken the line-out of my amp and fed it to the line-in of the audio 
> card and I wasn't surprised at the result.  Now if I can just get rid of 
> the hum,  ground loop?,  I could get started.
> 
> Apparently no audio cards have ground isolation and I don't want to build 
> something out of transformers, optical transducers etc.  What did you do to 
> solve this?

1) make sure that both the computer and audio source are plugged into 
the same outlet.

2) if a polarized plug is not used on audio source, try reversing it.

3) make sure all audio cables have the shield connected properly at both 
ends.

4) if you need other equipment, a transformer would be better than a 
little fm transmitter.

> 
> One thing that has come to mind is a little fm transmitter [ Radio Shack ] 
> at the Amp end and use a battery operated receiver at the computer.  That 
> avoids the cable running across the room but it might not be the best 
> quality. 
> 
> Other suggestions?   Thanks
> 
> Merv
> 
> 
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 22:05:09 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 18:05:09 -0400
Subject: Audio system to computer
In-Reply-To: <20031005171351.GA6487-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310051640.16534.mervc@eol.ca> <20031005171351.GA6487@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F809595.1030209@rogers.com>

Austin wrote:
> On 10/05/2003 04:40:16 PM, Merv Curley wrote:
> 
>> I have taken the line-out of my amp and fed it to the line-in of the 
>> audio
>> card and I wasn't surprised at the result.  Now if I can just get rid of
>> the hum,  ground loop?,  I could get started.
> 
> 
> The obvious answer would be to use a mixer with a ground post as your 
> preamp  and ground loop.  Even cheap radio shack mixers with phono 
> inputs have ground  posts.  It would probably also have a better preamp 
> than your sound card  would.
> 
> I highly recommend this route.

The line out of an amp, should have more than enough signal to drive a 
sound card.  Adding gain, where not needed may result in distortion.



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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct  5 18:14:41 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 14:14:41 -0400
Subject: Audio system to computer
In-Reply-To: <3F809595.1030209-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 18:05:09 -0400
References: <200310051640.16534.mervc@eol.ca> <20031005171351.GA6487@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <3F809595.1030209@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031005181441.GC6594@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On 10/05/2003 06:05:09 PM, James Knott wrote:
> Austin wrote:
>> On 10/05/2003 04:40:16 PM, Merv Curley wrote:
>> 
>>> I have taken the line-out of my amp and fed it to the line-in of the audio
>>> card and I wasn't surprised at the result.  Now if I can just get rid of
>>> the hum,  ground loop?,  I could get started.
>> 
>> 
>> The obvious answer would be to use a mixer with a ground post as your  
>> preamp  and ground loop.  Even cheap radio shack mixers with phono inputs  
>> have ground  posts.  It would probably also have a better preamp than your  
>> sound card  would.
>> 
>> I highly recommend this route.
> 
> The line out of an amp, should have more than enough signal to drive a sound  
> card.  Adding gain, where not needed may result in distortion.

Oops.  I didn't notice that he said line out of an AMP.  I just assumed he  
meant line out of a turntable, which is typically below line-level.
Sorry,
Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 00:02:05 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 20:02:05 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <200310052002.06289.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 05 October 2003 17:25, Keith Mastin wrote:

> Here's what I know: After submitting a form, a new browser window opens
> (unintended) with the address of http://www.domain.dom/contact.php (the
> name of the script called in the form action). The only related entry in
> any of the logs is this one in both the apache error_log and maillog:
> postdrop: warning: mail_queue_enter: create file maildrop/613100.25414:
> Permission denied

Is /var either full or out of inodes?

What are the permissions on your maildrop directory?  In Debian the maildrop 
directory is /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/ and these are the permissions:

drwx-wx--T    2 postfix  postdrop       48 Oct  5 19:02 maildrop

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 00:26:23 2003
From: hoeffer-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Jay)
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 20:26:23 -0400
Subject: Right click menu problem
Message-ID: <3F80B6AF.902@rogers.com>

I am having a problem with the alternate-click menu popping up when I am 
typing.  It seems to happen most (only?) when using KDE based apps (e.g. 
rpmdrake) and I am not even touching the mouse.  I can left-click to get 
rid of it sometimes, but as soon as I satrt typing again, it pops back 
up.  I have tried changing mice and switching from PS/2 to USB to rule 
out hardware issues, but no luck.

I am running Mandrake 9.1 with KDE 3.1.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Jay H

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 01:03:04 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:03:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php mail() function not working
Message-ID: <10633.216.138.194.32.1065402184.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>

> On Sunday 05 October 2003 17:25, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> Here's what I know: After submitting a form, a new browser window
>> opens (unintended) with the address of
>> http://www.domain.dom/contact.php (the name of the script called in
>> the form action). The only related entry in any of the logs is this
>> one in both the apache error_log and maillog: postdrop: warning:
>> mail_queue_enter: create file maildrop/613100.25414: Permission
>> denied
>
> Is /var either full or out of inodes?

df
/dev/sda6              1004024    417364    535656  44% /var
df -i
/dev/sda6             127744   29835   97909   24% /var

> What are the permissions on your maildrop directory?  In Debian the
> maildrop  directory is /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/ and these are the
> permissions:
>
> drwx-wx--T    2 postfix  postdrop       48 Oct  5 19:02 maildrop

I didn't have the sticky bit set. Setting it didn't make a difference. Get
this. I set the dir to 777, tried again... still no joy.

I'm getting ready to compile php and apache in usr/local/ to see if I can
come up with a solution. The php manual says that for the mail function to
work it has to be compiled in. php -i shows the sendmail wrapper
sendmail.postfix, so it should work, but I've grown used to expecting
snafu's with security fixes breaking something. So if apache is ran as
apache.shadow-readers, sendmail is root.root and postfix is run as
postfix.postdrop, who do I compile php as? Arrgh!

...tap...tap...tap... waiting for FreeBSD to be smp ready.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070



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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 03:34:36 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 23:34:36 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <10633.216.138.194.32.1065402184.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <10633.216.138.194.32.1065402184.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <200310052334.36536.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 05 October 2003 21:03, Keith Mastin wrote:

> > What are the permissions on your maildrop directory?  In Debian the
> > maildrop  directory is /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/ and these are the
> > permissions:
> >
> > drwx-wx--T    2 postfix  postdrop       48 Oct  5 19:02 maildrop
>
> I didn't have the sticky bit set. Setting it didn't make a difference. Get
> this. I set the dir to 777, tried again... still no joy.

Postfix is a very security concious program, security conscious programs do 
not like 777 permissions and often will puke and die if you set them that 
way.  Anyway, can't say I've ever had the problem you're describing, 
officially out of ideas now.

> snafu's with security fixes breaking something. So if apache is ran as
> apache.shadow-readers, sendmail is root.root and postfix is run as
> postfix.postdrop, who do I compile php as? Arrgh!

You should compile php as anyone (non-root), few programs should (or need to 
be) compiled as the root user.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 10:57:39 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:57:39 +0200 (IST)
Subject: php mail() function not working
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061257290.928@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> I'm getting ready to compile php and apache in usr/local/ to see if I can
> come up with a solution. The php manual says that for the mail function to
> work it has to be compiled in. php -i shows the sendmail wrapper
> sendmail.postfix, so it should work, but I've grown used to expecting
> snafu's with security fixes breaking something. So if apache is ran as
> apache.shadow-readers, sendmail is root.root and postfix is run as
> postfix.postdrop, who do I compile php as? Arrgh!

What I do when I get lost is cause a php script to create a file in /tmp.
This will have the permissions and umask of the cgi executor in that
context. This is usually enough to continue with the problem. F.ex. you
can su to that user and try to exec sendmail. Also see the
install permissions of the relevant libs (libphp, pibZend).

Peter
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From denis_mir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 13:45:28 2003
From: denis_mir-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Denis Mironnenko)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 13:45:28 +0000
Subject: Gentoo installation error
Message-ID: <Sea2-F29eKzGZuNY1SW000131fc@hotmail.com>

I am following documentation. After doing Section 9 the emerge told me that 
I need to update my portage tree so I did and got the error. Now I did 
update after doing bootstrap and it seemed to work.

Thank you.


>From: Dan Lang <drl4967-nE92ml7/ZJ6Vc3sceRu5cw at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Gentoo installation error
>Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:00:01 -0500 (CDT)
>
>
>
>On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Denis Mironnenko wrote:
>
> > I am trying to install Gentoo using State 1 tarball. After doing emerge
> > there is a message saying that I should do an update. But update fails 
>when
> > trying to install ncurses the message is
> >
> > configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
> >
> > What does this mean? Am I misssing some library?
> >
>You should rsync emerge first.
>
>'emerge rsync'
>then you have to run the bootstrap.sh script. this builds binutils, gcc,
>gettext and glibc
>'#cd /usr/portage'
>'#scripts/bootstrap.sh'
>
>It sounds like you didn't get above installed, so run the bootstrap.sh
>script.  After that run,
>'#emerge -u system'
>
>That will install a base system and you can have fun after that.
>
>All of this is in the documenatation btw:
>http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml
>
>Cheers,
>
>Dan Lang
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
>--
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_________________________________________________________________
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 14:00:25 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:00:25 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop> <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0@jimslaptop> <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <20031006140025.GQ13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 08:59:04PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote:
> mmmm... using FreeBSD -style partitions and slices, I would say yes, but
> with linux I would say use dedicated hard drives per distro. Otherwise,
> there are naming problems (both systems need independant / filesystems,
> etc.).

And how ever do you figure you need to hardhdisks to keep a seperate
root partition for each distribution?  That is just silly.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 14:03:34 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:03:34 -0400
Subject: SANE - scanner problems
In-Reply-To: <1065208799.2761.24.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031003153913.20823.qmail@web14512.mail.yahoo.com> <1065195811.2760.7.camel@linux.local> <20031003115009.4f8f6393.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1065208799.2761.24.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20031006140334.GR13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 03, 2003 at 03:19:59PM -0400, Jason Shein wrote:
> I forgot how I initially got it to work in the first place.
> 
> http://snapscan.sourceforge.net/#work
> 
> 
> -snip-
> Most USB models need a firmware upload in order to work (see table
> above). The bin file can be found in the windows drivers coming with
> your scanner. For scanners from Acer / Benq the last three digits of the
> firmware file depend on the version of your driver CD. The files listed
> in the table are known to work, other versions will probably work as
> well.
> 
> If you have a scanner from Acer or Benq and are uncertain which firmware
> file to use, run "acerfirm  -q".
> 
> You have to specify the firmware file in snapscan.conf, which can
> usually be found in /usr/local/etc/sane.d/ if you compiled SANE yourself
> or /etc/sane.d if you installed SANE from your distribution. The line
> should start with 'firmware' and contain the fully qualified path to
> your firmware file, e.g. 
>         firmware /path/to/my/firmware.bin
> You can also upload the firmware to your scanner manually. You need to
> launch one of agfafirm or acerfirm perl scripts: 
>         acerfirm /dev/usbscanner u34v101.bin
>         
> Note: acerfirm and agfafirm will only work if you use the scanner module
> to access your USB scanner. It does not work with libusb.
> -snip-
> 
> Thanx for the input everyone. I got it working now.||

Sounds awfully complicated.  Buy Epson scanners in the future and your
life will be so much simpler.  They just work.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 14:22:11 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:22:11 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031005053120.GA26248-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450> <3F7F470F.3060605@rogers.com> <20031005053120.GA26248@m450>
Message-ID: <20031006142211.GS13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Oct 05, 2003 at 01:31:21AM -0400, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
>   It turned out that editing /etc/console-tools/config did what I
> wanted, so no need for extra scripts.  The standard VGA text console is
> 640 pixels X 400 scanlines.  The standard font is 8 X 16.  This gives
> 
> 640           400
> --- columns X --- rows = 80 X 25 display.  Really wastefull on a 17"
>   8            16

Technically VGA uses 9x16 font on a 720x400 display.

> display.  Putting VGA=6 into lilo.conf selects the 640 X 480 textmode
> with 8 X 8 font.  That gives 80 x 60 display, but that's hard on the
> eyes.  I prefer VGA=6 with a /etc/console-tools/config entry of
> SCREEN_FONT=lat1-12.psf.gz
> which gives 480/12 = 40 row display.  The 12-pixel-high font is *MUCH*
> nicer than the 80 X 43 display (EGA 640 X 350 textmode with 8 X 8 font).
> On my one 19" monitor, I use lat1-10, which gives 480/10 = 48 rows.  The
> 10-pixel-high font gives a nicer display than standard 80 X 50 mode.
> That's the Redhat machine, which requires SVGATextMode to do that.

I prefer modprobe matroxfb_base vesa=0x1BF fv=75 fh=95 
which does 1600x1200 on my 19" so I get 200x75 text console.  I believe
that would be 8x16 font in that case.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 14:26:27 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:26:27 -0400
Subject: Gentoo installation error
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F29eKzGZuNY1SW000131fc-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F29eKzGZuNY1SW000131fc@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1065450386.27552.4.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>

On Mon, 2003-10-06 at 09:45, Denis Mironnenko wrote:
> I am following documentation. After doing Section 9 the emerge told me that 
> I need to update my portage tree so I did and got the error. Now I did 
> update after doing bootstrap and it seemed to work.

You are not alone.  Similar circumstances are reported semi-regularly on
the Gentoo user mailing list.  In sort ignore the msg to update, and
continue with the steps in the install doc.  

Aside, 'rsync' as an emerge option is deprecated.  You should use
'sync'.

Cheers,
Lloyd



> 
> Thank you.
> 
> 
> >From: Dan Lang <drl4967-nE92ml7/ZJ6Vc3sceRu5cw at public.gmane.org>
> >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Gentoo installation error
> >Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 16:00:01 -0500 (CDT)
> >
> >
> >
> >On Sun, 5 Oct 2003, Denis Mironnenko wrote:
> >
> > > I am trying to install Gentoo using State 1 tarball. After doing emerge
> > > there is a message saying that I should do an update. But update fails 
> >when
> > > trying to install ncurses the message is
> > >
> > > configure: error: C++ preprocessor "/lib/cpp" fails sanity check
> > >
> > > What does this mean? Am I misssing some library?
> > >
> >You should rsync emerge first.
> >
> >'emerge rsync'
> >then you have to run the bootstrap.sh script. this builds binutils, gcc,
> >gettext and glibc
> >'#cd /usr/portage'
> >'#scripts/bootstrap.sh'
> >
> >It sounds like you didn't get above installed, so run the bootstrap.sh
> >script.  After that run,
> >'#emerge -u system'
> >
> >That will install a base system and you can have fun after that.
> >
> >All of this is in the documenatation btw:
> >http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-install.xml
> >
> >Cheers,
> >
> >Dan Lang
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> > >
> > > --
> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > >
> >--
> >The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*   
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> 
> --
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-- 
Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 14:33:32 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 10:33:32 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <200310040941.19935.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net> <3F7DCB9C.1090805@rogers.com> <200310040941.19935.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031006143332.GT13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 09:41:19AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Nothing, it crashed ;-)  Seriously, no life, could not wake up the video, fans 
> whirring but no other obvious signs that the computer is even on.

If a server is misbehaving, be SURE to disable console blanking, since
if the machine crashes, you often can not unblank it to see what
happened.

> What I  realized after sending the first email is that even though this server 
> has historically been very stable (yes, 2-3 years) about 2 weeks ago it was 
> pushed into some extra services (many more websites and went from 2 databases 
> to 44).
> 
> Although the server still doesn't break a sweat there is significantly more 
> processing going on.  I'm leaning towards bad ram in light of the fact that 
> it's almost certainly using more ram and bad bits might be getting tickled 
> that were previously unused.

Could it have run out of ram?  Is it running a kernel without any known
issues?

[snip]

Lennart Sorensen
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From jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 10:34:44 2003
From: jemcinto-cpI+UMyWUv+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (James McIntosh)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 10:34:44
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
Message-ID: <3.0.6.16.20031006103444.254f175e@mail.look.ca>

How will this affect Linux ?


http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39116902,00.htm

Microsoft moves to integrate Windows with BIOS

Matthew Broersma

ZDNet UK

October 03, 2003, 17:25 BST

Tell us your opinion

A deal with BIOS maker Phoenix Technologies would
allow the operating system to directly control hardware. It also raises
concerns over who controls the software in PCs

Microsoft has expanded its relationship with BIOS maker Phoenix
Technologies in a deal designed to more closely integrate the basic
building blocks of the PC with the Windows operating system.

The relationship, announced this week, is designed to make PCs simpler
and more reliable, the companies said. The move is likely to put
consumer rights advocates on their guard, however, since both Microsoft
and Phoenix are involved in plans to integrate digital rights management
(DRM) technology at the operating system and hardware level. DRM is
designed to give copyright owners more control over how users make use
of software and content, but has been criticised as eroding consumer
rights.

A BIOS, or basic input/output system, is the software that ties the
operating system to a PC's hardware. Traditionally, it has carried out
basic tasks such as hardware and system configuration, and has been
standardised and simple enough to allow the installation of alternative
operating systems, including Linux.

Phoenix's Core System Software (CSS) is a next-generation BIOS with a
more sophisticated integration of operating system and hardware, for
example making it easier for system administrators to remotely monitor
the hardware configurations of their systems. CSS is designed for non-PC
systems such as blade servers and embedded industrial devices as well as
traditional desktops.

Microsoft said integration should mean simpler and more reliable
computers. "This is a pivotal change for the industry, and it will
rapidly advance serviceability, deployment, and management for servers,
mobile devices, and desktops," said Microsoft general manager of Windows
hardware Tom Phillips, in a statement. "Effectively, Phoenix is creating
an entirely new category of system software."

Microsoft said the next-generation BIOS would allow future versions of
Windows to manage server blades when they are connected to a system,
without needing to be turned on. The BIOS would also allow better
control of unauthorised devices connected to a system, Microsoft said.

Phoenix is one of the biggest BIOS providers, its customers including
four of the top five PC manufacturers. Its products are also used by
consumer electronics makers such as Pioneer, Matsushita, Sony and
Toshiba.

Both Microsoft and Phoenix are currently arguing for closer integration
of Windows with PC hardware, and DRM integrated throughout. Microsoft is
planning to tie Windows DRM features to the hardware platform via its
controversial Next Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB) project,
formerly known as Palladium. NGSCB is associated with the next version
of Windows, code-named Longhorn, which is due in about two years' time.

Phoenix recently said it is touting round a BIOS with built-in DRM
technology to major PC manufacturers. In September the company said it
had developed a prototype of its Core Management Engine (CME) including
DRM from Orbid. The DRM technology would allow content providers to
identify which PCs and devices were authorised to play particular files,
more effectively controlling content distribution, file-trading and
moving software from one machine to another, according to Phoenix.

Phoenix said the DRM-enabled CME was not part of Microsoft's NGSCB, but
that the technology was complementary. The CME would allow PC makers to
embed digital rights management directly into the hardware, though they
would have the option of allowing users to turn it off.

Consumer electronics makers are particularly interested in the
technology, according to Phoenix.

Efficeon nets PC industry backing

Stolen PCs can 'ping' their real owner

New group aims at universal security

End of the road in sight for antique heart of PCs

Email this

Print this

Tell us your opinion

Bull. To put it mildly. Anyone with half a brain
(and NOT in BIOS...
Jeff Partridge

Microsoft's plan to integrate the operating system with the BIOS ...
Phil A

OH, GREAT. Soon we'll have viruses infecting not only our OS a...
Anonymous

Can't they keep their hands off of anything? I've got a bad feeli...
Jeff A.

Ok..it takes A LOT to scare me. This scares me.
Dan

They are trying to rule the wold but will fail. Most businesses a...
Anonymous

Gatezooks Batman! Can Bill be stealing another Apple idea? Ap...
Michel Levesque

Phoenix is only one of the many global organsations working to ex...
Adebayo Omo-Dare

An attempt to squelch Linux? Hm... They're not scared of the co...
Laura

just boycot any mobo with that bios.. that takes care of that..
joeldg

This article is about to get posted on slashdot, hang on to your ...
Anonymous

"The BIOS would also allow better control of unauthorised devices...
Jim Storch

Wow, that's the last Phoenix bios I buy, shame too, I've been a l...
edfardos

Good news! Microsoft is trying to take over yet another techn...
Anonymous

As Michel Levesque said, Apple has been doing this for years, in ...
John Thurlow

someone need to shurdown Microsoft. I hope some groups of peop...
Anonymous

The anti-MS sentiments here are pathetic... Microsoft is a busine...
Anonymous

I flat out refuse to buy a motherboard with a Windows Integrated ...
Sean Darrenkamp

Uhhhh ....it?s gonna be messy I?d guess . I very much have the...
Winston Graeme

might want to spell authorized as authorized and not authorised.
Anonymous

This is ZDNet.co.uk. In the UK authorized is spelt authorised.
Anonymous

Thats opening the door to windows virus that will kill the system...
blackcomb

Re: What Apple does When Microsoft startes making its own bios...
Anonymous

First SCO kernel lawsuits... now this? What's next Microsoft Onl...
Gill Bates

Provided versions of the BIOS are made available which run OS's ...
Anonymous

If people can get around all the MS-Specific stuff in the XBox, I...
Jerry Leik

I beg your pardon, but doesn't this run afoul of the US anti-trus...
Anonymous

And I thought the only advantage DOS had over CP/M was the BIOS w...
Mark Harvey

R.E: Matthew Broersma You make it sound like Microsoft are for...
Anonymous

We are borg; you are fud. Our daily mantra here at microbasicinpu...
LinuxIsOverRated

I do not like this one bit at all. Microsoft is being very mon...
Matt S.

I believe, Microsoft will not be able to do such a thing. Firstl...
Nitrocloud

I would just like to know if when Microsoft says that this will h...
Eric Damron

Time to develop an open-source hardware platform that uses FPGA's...
g salter

Oh.. right.. so another bribe underway. Whats next, cpu's which ...
Gunblade

This stinks. What about the settlement reach regarding MS's anti...
Anonymous

This is the most selfish thing I heard since I found out that ph...
Kris mason

It's not complicated that problem its what we call controling peo...
Michel Plante

The Apple model is actually different. They provide the ROM, mot...
Anonymous

*sniff sniff* I smell IBM and MCA here..wonder if MS will figure...
Doug Mayfield

What Microsoft and Phoenix are doing is very similar to what Appl...
Ezra

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From lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 14:55:43 2003
From: lists-tZhE6lH4Esk+k03BA+Hq9g at public.gmane.org (Oliver Meyn)
Date: 06 Oct 2003 10:55:43 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <1065452143.4288.18.camel@theconstruct.mineallmeyn.net>

On Sun, 2003-10-05 at 17:25, Keith Mastin wrote:
> redhat-7.3
> apache-1.3.27-3
> php-4.1.2

> Here's the code:
> contact.php:
> <?php
> mail("info-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org",
> "Contact form test",
> "$comments"
> );

This is a long shot, but maybe you need a valid From header, given in
the fourth argument to mail()?  I've read that some MTA's puke if they
don't get it, though it doesn't really jive with your log entry.

Just a thought,
Oliver

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 15:36:03 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:36:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20031006103444.254f175e-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.6.16.20031006103444.254f175e@mail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061135290.10162-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

so much for using pheonix bios for me then, I always hated CTRL-ALT-S 
anyways:)


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, James McIntosh wrote:

> How will this affect Linux ?
> 
> 
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39116902,00.htm
> 
> Microsoft moves to integrate Windows with BIOS
> 
> Matthew Broersma
> 
> ZDNet UK
> 
> October 03, 2003, 17:25 BST
> 
> Tell us your opinion
> 
> A deal with BIOS maker Phoenix Technologies would
> allow the operating system to directly control hardware. It also raises
> concerns over who controls the software in PCs
> 
> Microsoft has expanded its relationship with BIOS maker Phoenix
> Technologies in a deal designed to more closely integrate the basic
> building blocks of the PC with the Windows operating system.
> 
> The relationship, announced this week, is designed to make PCs simpler
> and more reliable, the companies said. The move is likely to put
> consumer rights advocates on their guard, however, since both Microsoft
> and Phoenix are involved in plans to integrate digital rights management
> (DRM) technology at the operating system and hardware level. DRM is
> designed to give copyright owners more control over how users make use
> of software and content, but has been criticised as eroding consumer
> rights.
> 
> A BIOS, or basic input/output system, is the software that ties the
> operating system to a PC's hardware. Traditionally, it has carried out
> basic tasks such as hardware and system configuration, and has been
> standardised and simple enough to allow the installation of alternative
> operating systems, including Linux.
> 
> Phoenix's Core System Software (CSS) is a next-generation BIOS with a
> more sophisticated integration of operating system and hardware, for
> example making it easier for system administrators to remotely monitor
> the hardware configurations of their systems. CSS is designed for non-PC
> systems such as blade servers and embedded industrial devices as well as
> traditional desktops.
> 
> Microsoft said integration should mean simpler and more reliable
> computers. "This is a pivotal change for the industry, and it will
> rapidly advance serviceability, deployment, and management for servers,
> mobile devices, and desktops," said Microsoft general manager of Windows
> hardware Tom Phillips, in a statement. "Effectively, Phoenix is creating
> an entirely new category of system software."
> 
> Microsoft said the next-generation BIOS would allow future versions of
> Windows to manage server blades when they are connected to a system,
> without needing to be turned on. The BIOS would also allow better
> control of unauthorised devices connected to a system, Microsoft said.
> 
> Phoenix is one of the biggest BIOS providers, its customers including
> four of the top five PC manufacturers. Its products are also used by
> consumer electronics makers such as Pioneer, Matsushita, Sony and
> Toshiba.
> 
> Both Microsoft and Phoenix are currently arguing for closer integration
> of Windows with PC hardware, and DRM integrated throughout. Microsoft is
> planning to tie Windows DRM features to the hardware platform via its
> controversial Next Generation Secure Computing Base (NGSCB) project,
> formerly known as Palladium. NGSCB is associated with the next version
> of Windows, code-named Longhorn, which is due in about two years' time.
> 
> Phoenix recently said it is touting round a BIOS with built-in DRM
> technology to major PC manufacturers. In September the company said it
> had developed a prototype of its Core Management Engine (CME) including
> DRM from Orbid. The DRM technology would allow content providers to
> identify which PCs and devices were authorised to play particular files,
> more effectively controlling content distribution, file-trading and
> moving software from one machine to another, according to Phoenix.
> 
> Phoenix said the DRM-enabled CME was not part of Microsoft's NGSCB, but
> that the technology was complementary. The CME would allow PC makers to
> embed digital rights management directly into the hardware, though they
> would have the option of allowing users to turn it off.
> 
> Consumer electronics makers are particularly interested in the
> technology, according to Phoenix.
> 
> Efficeon nets PC industry backing
> 
> Stolen PCs can 'ping' their real owner
> 
> New group aims at universal security
> 
> End of the road in sight for antique heart of PCs
> 
> Email this
> 
> Print this
> 
> Tell us your opinion
> 
> Bull. To put it mildly. Anyone with half a brain
> (and NOT in BIOS...
> Jeff Partridge
> 
> Microsoft's plan to integrate the operating system with the BIOS ...
> Phil A
> 
> OH, GREAT. Soon we'll have viruses infecting not only our OS a...
> Anonymous
> 
> Can't they keep their hands off of anything? I've got a bad feeli...
> Jeff A.
> 
> Ok..it takes A LOT to scare me. This scares me.
> Dan
> 
> They are trying to rule the wold but will fail. Most businesses a...
> Anonymous
> 
> Gatezooks Batman! Can Bill be stealing another Apple idea? Ap...
> Michel Levesque
> 
> Phoenix is only one of the many global organsations working to ex...
> Adebayo Omo-Dare
> 
> An attempt to squelch Linux? Hm... They're not scared of the co...
> Laura
> 
> just boycot any mobo with that bios.. that takes care of that..
> joeldg
> 
> This article is about to get posted on slashdot, hang on to your ...
> Anonymous
> 
> "The BIOS would also allow better control of unauthorised devices...
> Jim Storch
> 
> Wow, that's the last Phoenix bios I buy, shame too, I've been a l...
> edfardos
> 
> Good news! Microsoft is trying to take over yet another techn...
> Anonymous
> 
> As Michel Levesque said, Apple has been doing this for years, in ...
> John Thurlow
> 
> someone need to shurdown Microsoft. I hope some groups of peop...
> Anonymous
> 
> The anti-MS sentiments here are pathetic... Microsoft is a busine...
> Anonymous
> 
> I flat out refuse to buy a motherboard with a Windows Integrated ...
> Sean Darrenkamp
> 
> Uhhhh ....it?s gonna be messy I?d guess . I very much have the...
> Winston Graeme
> 
> might want to spell authorized as authorized and not authorised.
> Anonymous
> 
> This is ZDNet.co.uk. In the UK authorized is spelt authorised.
> Anonymous
> 
> Thats opening the door to windows virus that will kill the system...
> blackcomb
> 
> Re: What Apple does When Microsoft startes making its own bios...
> Anonymous
> 
> First SCO kernel lawsuits... now this? What's next Microsoft Onl...
> Gill Bates
> 
> Provided versions of the BIOS are made available which run OS's ...
> Anonymous
> 
> If people can get around all the MS-Specific stuff in the XBox, I...
> Jerry Leik
> 
> I beg your pardon, but doesn't this run afoul of the US anti-trus...
> Anonymous
> 
> And I thought the only advantage DOS had over CP/M was the BIOS w...
> Mark Harvey
> 
> R.E: Matthew Broersma You make it sound like Microsoft are for...
> Anonymous
> 
> We are borg; you are fud. Our daily mantra here at microbasicinpu...
> LinuxIsOverRated
> 
> I do not like this one bit at all. Microsoft is being very mon...
> Matt S.
> 
> I believe, Microsoft will not be able to do such a thing. Firstl...
> Nitrocloud
> 
> I would just like to know if when Microsoft says that this will h...
> Eric Damron
> 
> Time to develop an open-source hardware platform that uses FPGA's...
> g salter
> 
> Oh.. right.. so another bribe underway. Whats next, cpu's which ...
> Gunblade
> 
> This stinks. What about the settlement reach regarding MS's anti...
> Anonymous
> 
> This is the most selfish thing I heard since I found out that ph...
> Kris mason
> 
> It's not complicated that problem its what we call controling peo...
> Michel Plante
> 
> The Apple model is actually different. They provide the ROM, mot...
> Anonymous
> 
> *sniff sniff* I smell IBM and MCA here..wonder if MS will figure...
> Doug Mayfield
> 
> What Microsoft and Phoenix are doing is very similar to what Appl...
> Ezra
> 
> Enjoy this article? Don't miss any of ZDNet's great developer content.
> Developer Digest brings you weekly updates on the latest in programming,
> architecture, and management. Subscribe for free weekly updates:
> More...
> 
> 
> <<Must Read Software>>
> 
> Microsoft moves to integrate Windows with BIOS
> 
> Symantec on alert after surge in Net activity
> 
> SuSE's 64-bit Linux seeks unhappy Windows users
> 
> OpenOffice gets major facelift
> 
> More...
> 
> 
> <<Software Features>>
> 
> Computers: Just another commodity?
> 
> SAP high-flyer gives view from the top
> 
> SCO and Linux: The legal rights and wrongs
> 
> The slow evolution of instant messaging
> 
> More...
> 
> 
> <<Also in News>>
> 
> Microsoft moves to integrate Windows with BIOS
> 
> Email gossip could put firms in the dock
> 
> Toshiba delays commercial fuel cell
> 
> EU directive 'could spark patent war'
> 
> Cisco dials up small business
> 
> Yahoo business IM ready to chat
> 
> Symantec on alert after surge in Net activity
> 
> Email remains the business choice
> 
> Surplus PeopleSoft staff lose jobs
> 
> Digital media group makes stand on piracy
> 
> More...
> 
> Contact Us|Your Privacy|Terms|Permissions & Reprints Policy|ZDNet
> International|Advertise|CorrectionsAbout CNET Networks
> Copyright ? 2003 CNET Networks, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
> ZDNet is a registered service mark of CNET Networks, Inc. ZDNet Logo is
> a service mark of CNET NETWORKS, Inc.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 15:51:25 2003
From: mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Merv Curley)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 11:51:25 -0400
Subject: Audio system to computer
In-Reply-To: <3F809435.60702-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310051640.16534.mervc@eol.ca> <3F809435.60702@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200310061151.25505.mervc@eol.ca>

On October 5, 2003 05:59 pm, James Knott  and others wrote:

Thanks for the suggestions guys.

The turntable output needs equalization so it has to go through an Amp.  I 
am using my existing Audio system with inputs for my 4 sound sources,  
casette, reel to reel, and 2 turntables 78 and 33/45  [ plus VCRS, CD, 
DVD and the TV].

I do have a Preamp/mixer from my first component system,  [Eico  1956?),  I 
wonder if the tubes still glow?  That has line in and out, it  might 
provide the isolation needed,  us squirrels never throw anything out. I 
suspect that the Filter caps in the power supply might be NG by now but 
I'll investigate.

>
> 1) make sure that both the computer and audio source are plugged into
> the same outlet.
>
I suppose I could run an extension cable accross the floor to the computer,  
maybe I'll try that before plan  A. While everything is on the same circuit 
they are a long way apart in the room.

> 2) if a polarized plug is not used on audio source, try reversing it.
>
My turntables have ground lugs which go back to the Amp. The Hum seems to 
come from the amp with no inputs connected.  But I'll have to disconnect 
everything to be sure.

> 3) make sure all audio cables have the shield connected properly at both
> ends.

They do.

>
> l> 4) if you need other equipment, a transformer would be better than a
little fm transmitter.
>

Well that saves $30 anyway. I suspect I have xfmrs in my collection but that 
involves moving much dust.

You've helped,  thanks

Merv



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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 16:55:53 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:55:53 +0200 (IST)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20031006103444.254f175e-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.6.16.20031006103444.254f175e@mail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061844080.542@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, James McIntosh wrote:

> How will this affect Linux ?
>
>
> http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,39116902,00.htm
>
> Microsoft moves to integrate Windows with BIOS

First, the BIOS is to Linux what the driver side door handle is to the
Mercedes car. It has to be there so you can get in, after that it's just a
piece of metal that causes drag and snags things.

Second, not everyone will 'integrate'. The aftermarket for compatible
BIOSes is huge as a large proportion of automation and embedded runs on PC
platform now.

Third, this is not new, it has been rumored for a while now, and there are
already 'open' BIOSes (although the last time I checked they were closed
for non-US people ?!). See here:

http://www.openbios.org/

Notice that there is an IEEE standard for this, and that they follow it.
This is not wild-in-the-field hacking.

As to integrated drm, I have nothing against drm and its effects on
copycats, but I have everything against it because I use embedded and I
write low level drivers. Having to buy my way through various cartel
memberships to be able to do that is not an available option. I believe
that drm should be achieved without locking the pc platform for all the
small and medium developers out there, who do not have the means to play
in cartels.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 16:58:59 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:58:59 +0200 (IST)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.6.16.20031006103444.254f175e-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.6.16.20031006103444.254f175e@mail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061858440.542@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


I forgot the important one:

www.linuxbios.org

Peter
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 16:11:01 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:11:01 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061135290.10162-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061135290.10162-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061200220.27894@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> so much for using pheonix bios for me then, I always hated CTRL-ALT-S
> anyways:)

There is/was a proejct to create an OpenBIOS.  Maybe we just need to buy
boards and flash our own bios in ;)  It would be quite a bit of work to
do it with every box but things like being able to do a true serial
console cheaply on a PC would make it worth it.

A couple of thoughts:

I've always consider how the OpenBIOS people had intended to get around
the highly architecure specific characteristics of the BIOS.  I suspect a
minimalist abstraction layer and then everything else in Forth :)

In any case, Linux only uses the BIOS to a very limited degree, and it can
even bypass PnP in the BIOS so one wonders how much it matters that
MS-Windows will be so closely tied to the BIOS.

Now, the DRM stuff may be a serious problem if it can't be turned off.  I
see this as a civil liberties issue though (the right to use equipment you
have purchased in the way you wish).  It transcends simply computing.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 16:15:48 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 12:15:48 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <20031006143332.GT13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net> <200310040941.19935.fraser@wehave.net> <20031006143332.GT13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200310061215.48329.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 06 October 2003 10:33, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> If a server is misbehaving, be SURE to disable console blanking, since
> if the machine crashes, you often can not unblank it to see what
> happened.

Yup, I was thinking about that one, definitely sounds like a good idea, there 
isn't even a monitor attached normally so there's no screen that we're 
saving.

> Could it have run out of ram?  Is it running a kernel without any known
> issues?

It has 512MB of RAM rarely using more than 100MB (other than for fs caching), 
I cannot rule out an unusual event that caused a spike in usage though ... 
we're now monitoring that so hopefully it's not so rapid that we don't catch 
it.  The kernel probably does have known issues but it's Debian's latest 
2.4.18-686 so it should be ok from a security point of view at least.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 16:19:41 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:19:41 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Same source, better news
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061818440.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


<http://insight.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020469,39116731,00.htm>

An interviewed IP lawyer gives very sound advice on the SCO/Linux issue.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 16:26:25 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:26:25 +0200 (IST)
Subject: And Intel is onto it too
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826100.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/developer/0,39020387,2130826,00.htm

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 16:28:28 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:28:28 +0200 (IST)
Subject: WAP <-> Linux
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826550.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Hi all,

has anyone done anything with Wap and phone-based browsers on Linux ? I am
just starting with this, and I have some problems. Most importantly, my
phone seems unable to enter some characters, like the tilde '~'. There may
be other issues too.

any input would be appreciated,

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 18:24:13 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:24:13 +0200 (IST)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061200220.27894-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061135290.10162-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061200220.27894@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310062016550.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

> I've always consider how the OpenBIOS people had intended to get around
> the highly architecure specific characteristics of the BIOS.  I suspect a
> minimalist abstraction layer and then everything else in Forth :)

Why do you suspect this instead of reading on it (at the url I posted:
www.openbios.org).  They do indeed use Forth and the interpreter is 90%
implemented. You can download a copy and play with it. So the website
says.

DRM is welcome imho if it will stop the flood of counterfeit copyware that
floods and destroys markets, and if it will cause the riaa etc to back off
from pressuring other uses of shared bandwidth. It is not welcome if it
locks the ability to use the machine for other things, such as writing
your own code/device driver or copying your own anniversary and wedding
DVDs and CDs (a real problem right now). In the way they want to do it now
DRM is not welcome, as it locks both.

Peter
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From mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 18:43:28 2003
From: mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:43:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031002190042.GP13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002190042.GP13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031006184328.7736.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>

> I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I
> actually
> find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs on
> non
> x86 hardware, and I don't think Cisco uses x86 hardware.  I have
> only so
> far found a reference mentioning Cisco was considering putting a
> real
> time OS into IOS, but that they hadn't done so yet (as of 2002 it
> would
> appear).  I suppose QNX would have added more types of hardware by
> now
> though.

No, Cisco uses QNX to run actual routing algorithms, don't believe me
if you want, frankly I don't give a damn.

I have friends who work at Cisco and actually had to write code for
the routers, their big complaint was that QNX does not have dynamic
memory allocation mechanisms. (You can not do dynamic memory in hard
real time, which is why RT threads in Java are such a big joke.)

Maybe Cisco does not mention QNX because they don't want to confuse
people, maybe they want everyone to think they make routers, switches
and operating systems. I don't know. I just know how it works, not
why marketing departments think the way they do.

> Which may be why what I found indicates that Cisco is considering
> doing
> it, but it sure looked like they hadn't done so yet.  There does
> seem to
> be some talk of a QNX based IOS sometime this year, but it would be
> a
> new things then.

No Cisco is not considering, they have been using QNX for years -
don't trust what you read on the Internet, actually find someone who
is implementing EIGRP or something at Cisco and ask what OS they are
coding for.

> > Where can I take a course as interesting and exciting as CS 452?
> (If
> > you really want to know the answer to that question you probably
> > ought to turn yourself in to the Queen Street mental health unit,
> > otherwise if you really want to know the answer go take CS 452 at
> > U(W).)
> 
> Well at least it was still there last time I stopped by.

The course has been around since the mid 70's its not going anywhere
anytime soon.

Michael

______________________________________________________________________ 
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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 18:43:24 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 14:43:24 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310062016550.1998-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061135290.10162-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061200220.27894@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310062016550.1998@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006143604.02827ce0@pop1.sympatico.ca>

For general info on Forth go to www.forth.org.

At 02:24 PM 10/6/03, you wrote:

>On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
>
> > I've always consider how the OpenBIOS people had intended to get around
> > the highly architecure specific characteristics of the BIOS.  I suspect a
> > minimalist abstraction layer and then everything else in Forth :)
>
>Why do you suspect this instead of reading on it (at the url I posted:
>www.openbios.org).  They do indeed use Forth and the interpreter is 90%
>implemented. You can download a copy and play with it. So the website
>says.
>
>DRM is welcome imho if it will stop the flood of counterfeit copyware that
>floods and destroys markets, and if it will cause the riaa etc to back off
>from pressuring other uses of shared bandwidth. It is not welcome if it
>locks the ability to use the machine for other things, such as writing
>your own code/device driver or copying your own anniversary and wedding
>DVDs and CDs (a real problem right now). In the way they want to do it now
>DRM is not welcome, as it locks both.
>
>Peter
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 19:08:39 2003
From: mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:08:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031006184328.7736.qmail-1z9btdrhxG2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031006184328.7736.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031006190839.72672.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com>

> > I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I
> > actually
> > find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs
> on
> > non
> > x86 hardware, and I don't think Cisco uses x86 hardware.  I have
> > only so
> > far found a reference mentioning Cisco was considering putting a
> > real
> > time OS into IOS, but that they hadn't done so yet (as of 2002 it
> > would
> > appear).  I suppose QNX would have added more types of hardware
> by
> > now
> > though.
> 
> No, Cisco uses QNX to run actual routing algorithms, don't believe
> me
> if you want, frankly I don't give a damn.

Sorry but I get pissed when people tell me I am wrong when I *know* I
m dead right (knowing I am dead on is uncommong, being told I am
wrong, thats another story). Anyway I did a little Google search, I
know don't trust anything you find on the Internet (I said that about
five minutes ago) but I don't have time to really do the research
properly.

Okay I type the following search string into Google:

QNX Cisco

and the very first link:

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/146/pressroom/1998/may98/16.html

Title: Cisco Systems Licenses QNX?? Realtime Technology 
Fault-Tolerant Microkernel Software can Boost Availability of
Data-Voice-Video Networks

This was from May of 98

There are a bunch of articles in a similar vain (many in German) but
like I said I don't have time now to make this into a monster
research project.

Anyway search the Cisco web site, search the QNX web site, you will
not find much. Ask a Cisco programmer, i.e. someone who works for
Cisco and writes code, not someone (like me) who uses IOS. They will
tell you the gory details.

And like I said in my first post on this subject, Cisco started as a
husband and wife time who sold little BSD boxes which were configured
as routers, they financed their project with credit cards and
moonlighted as consultants. So yes at one time Cisco did not use QNX,
they used BSD, and I suspect that modern routers do not use x86 but I
would not be surprised to learn that the earliest Cisco routers ran
on x86s.

Michael

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 19:32:40 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:32:40 -0400
Subject: Troubleshooting server crashes
In-Reply-To: <200310061215.48329.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310031410.30288.fraser@wehave.net> <200310040941.19935.fraser@wehave.net> <20031006143332.GT13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200310061215.48329.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031006193240.GA32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 12:15:48PM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Yup, I was thinking about that one, definitely sounds like a good idea, there 
> isn't even a monitor attached normally so there's no screen that we're 
> saving.

I wish I could remember which command to use to disable it, but I can't.

> It has 512MB of RAM rarely using more than 100MB (other than for fs caching), 
> I cannot rule out an unusual event that caused a spike in usage though ... 
> we're now monitoring that so hopefully it's not so rapid that we don't catch 
> it.  The kernel probably does have known issues but it's Debian's latest 
> 2.4.18-686 so it should be ok from a security point of view at least.

I had problems with intel e100 cards locking up prior to switchin to the
e100 driver in 2.4.19, the eepro100 driver had some bugs, although I
think it may require more than 900MB ram to be an issue, but it sure
could lock the machine good when it hit.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 19:34:24 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:34:24 -0400
Subject: WAP <-> Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826550.1279-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826550.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031006193424.GB32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 06:28:28PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> has anyone done anything with Wap and phone-based browsers on Linux ? I am
> just starting with this, and I have some problems. Most importantly, my
> phone seems unable to enter some characters, like the tilde '~'. There may
> be other issues too.
> 
> any input would be appreciated,

My phone has no problem entering ~, it is on the symbol menu.

I have used hawhaw lib for php to generate some small wap sites for my
own use.

Lennart Sorensen
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 20:43:36 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 16:43:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031006184328.7736.qmail-1z9btdrhxG2A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031006184328.7736.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061642490.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

was QNX the version of unix that cisco used for IOS then?  


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Michael wrote:

> > I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I
> > actually
> > find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs on
> > non
> > x86 hardware, and I don't think Cisco uses x86 hardware.  I have
> > only so
> > far found a reference mentioning Cisco was considering putting a
> > real
> > time OS into IOS, but that they hadn't done so yet (as of 2002 it
> > would
> > appear).  I suppose QNX would have added more types of hardware by
> > now
> > though.
> 
> No, Cisco uses QNX to run actual routing algorithms, don't believe me
> if you want, frankly I don't give a damn.
> 
> I have friends who work at Cisco and actually had to write code for
> the routers, their big complaint was that QNX does not have dynamic
> memory allocation mechanisms. (You can not do dynamic memory in hard
> real time, which is why RT threads in Java are such a big joke.)
> 
> Maybe Cisco does not mention QNX because they don't want to confuse
> people, maybe they want everyone to think they make routers, switches
> and operating systems. I don't know. I just know how it works, not
> why marketing departments think the way they do.
> 
> > Which may be why what I found indicates that Cisco is considering
> > doing
> > it, but it sure looked like they hadn't done so yet.  There does
> > seem to
> > be some talk of a QNX based IOS sometime this year, but it would be
> > a
> > new things then.
> 
> No Cisco is not considering, they have been using QNX for years -
> don't trust what you read on the Internet, actually find someone who
> is implementing EIGRP or something at Cisco and ask what OS they are
> coding for.
> 
> > > Where can I take a course as interesting and exciting as CS 452?
> > (If
> > > you really want to know the answer to that question you probably
> > > ought to turn yourself in to the Queen Street mental health unit,
> > > otherwise if you really want to know the answer go take CS 452 at
> > > U(W).)
> > 
> > Well at least it was still there last time I stopped by.
> 
> The course has been around since the mid 70's its not going anywhere
> anytime soon.
> 
> Michael
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 21:00:37 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:00:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006143604.02827ce0-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006143604.02827ce0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

why not assembly?  I thought most bioses were written in that.


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Elliott Chapin wrote:

> For general info on Forth go to www.forth.org.
> 
> At 02:24 PM 10/6/03, you wrote:
> 
> >On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> >
> > > I've always consider how the OpenBIOS people had intended to get around
> > > the highly architecure specific characteristics of the BIOS.  I suspect a
> > > minimalist abstraction layer and then everything else in Forth :)
> >
> >Why do you suspect this instead of reading on it (at the url I posted:
> >www.openbios.org).  They do indeed use Forth and the interpreter is 90%
> >implemented. You can download a copy and play with it. So the website
> >says.
> >
> >DRM is welcome imho if it will stop the flood of counterfeit copyware that
> >floods and destroys markets, and if it will cause the riaa etc to back off
> >from pressuring other uses of shared bandwidth. It is not welcome if it
> >locks the ability to use the machine for other things, such as writing
> >your own code/device driver or copying your own anniversary and wedding
> >DVDs and CDs (a real problem right now). In the way they want to do it now
> >DRM is not welcome, as it locks both.
> >
> >Peter
> >--
> >The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 21:18:36 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:18:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031006171415.28622C-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> why not assembly?  I thought most bioses were written in that.

The problem with assembler is that it is very processor-specific.  This is
particularly problematic for peripherals that have their own BIOS ROMs --
which CPU type should their BIOS modules be coded for?  (No, the whole 
world isn't x86s.)  Using some sort of interpreted format solves that.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 21:35:05 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:35:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031006171415.28622C-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031006171415.28622C-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061734190.31215@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Henry Spencer wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > why not assembly?  I thought most bioses were written in that.
>
> The problem with assembler is that it is very processor-specific.  This is
> particularly problematic for peripherals that have their own BIOS ROMs --
> which CPU type should their BIOS modules be coded for?  (No, the whole
> world isn't x86s.)  Using some sort of interpreted format solves that.

That's right, and Forth is chosen because some "BIOS" equivalents are
already written in it (the PROM on Sun boxes and maybe others).

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 21:40:38 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:40:38 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <20031006190839.72672.qmail-I4IeacX4HgiA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031006190839.72672.qmail@web41509.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F81E156.3010408@sympatico.ca>

I don't know who said this, but it's wrong:

>>> I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I actually 
>>>  find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs
>>> on non x86 hardware

QNX is a company with MORE than ONE RTOS kernel, although both are 
commonly called just QNX for short.

The old original QNX-OS, and the next generation QNX-NEUTRINO, which has 
replaced the old QNX 386 code, which is now only used by legacy 
customers.  The original QNX OS core was hand coded in 386 assember and 
the architecture was not highly portable.  The NEUTRINO core, which is 
what all non-x86 cpus that run a QNX RTOS use, is portable to lots of 
different non-intel cores.

Warren



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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 21:55:57 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 17:55:57 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.
 org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006143604.02827ce0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.
 org>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031006174228.0281fcb0@pop1.sympatico.ca>

Go to http://www.firmworks.com/ and ask Mitch Bradley (and see if it would 
be OK to cc his reply to this group). His work is at the root of all this. 
While your at it check out his resume. His reasons may have something to do 
with algorithmic conveniences. If you by any chance are or care to get 
acquainted with Forth take a look at how square brackets are used; that 
might give you an idea about why he used Forth.

At 05:00 PM 10/6/03, you wrote:
>why not assembly?  I thought most bioses were written in that.
>
>
>On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Elliott Chapin wrote:
>
> > For general info on Forth go to www.forth.org.
> >
> > At 02:24 PM 10/6/03, you wrote:
> >
> > >On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > >
> > > > I've always consider how the OpenBIOS people had intended to get around
> > > > the highly architecure specific characteristics of the BIOS.  I 
> suspect a
> > > > minimalist abstraction layer and then everything else in Forth :)
> > >


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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 22:25:52 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 18:25:52 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <20031006140025.GQ13910-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com> <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop> <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0@jimslaptop> <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <20031006140025.GQ13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F81EBF0.1060804@alteeve.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 08:59:04PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
>>mmmm... using FreeBSD -style partitions and slices, I would say yes, but
>>with linux I would say use dedicated hard drives per distro. Otherwise,
>>there are naming problems (both systems need independant / filesystems,
>>etc.).
> 
> 
> And how ever do you figure you need to hardhdisks to keep a seperate
> root partition for each distribution?  That is just silly.
> 
> Lennart Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

Now now Lennart!

   I thought the same thing might be necesary when I first set out to 
dual-boot Linux... Some of us are still relatively new to Linux and are 
still wrapping our heads around it's (wounderful) girth. :) Keith though 
might not wanted to have spoken with such authority though before 
knowing for sure.

Ciao all!

Madison

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 18:41:36 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 14:41:36 -0400
Subject: cdot office pics
Message-ID: <20031006184136.GA2709@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

Hi,
I mentioned seeing this new office at Seneca at York going up, and I just had to  
post pictures of it, becuase it's so cool.  These are like 12 foot glass walls  
all decorated with open source 'stuff'.  I contacted the guy running the  
project (CDOT, Center for the Developemtn of Open Technologies), and he's a  
really cool guy.  Their main focus right now is getting Linux labs into  
Ontario high schools, but they plan to also promote Linux at Seneca in the  
near future... I hope I can help a bit, as I've been doing that at York for  
years.  :-)

http://groundstate.ca/cdot.jpeg
http://groundstate.ca/cdot2.jpeg

Also, this gave me a chance to try out my new digital camera.  ;-)  It works  
perfectly with linux incidentally... USB Mass Storage is cool.

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 22:44:40 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:44:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <3F81EBF0.1060804-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065132838.11802.7.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
        <001c01c38934$81a78510$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
        <13625.216.138.194.32.1065136820.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <008501c3893e$f6f9a780$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
        <13703.216.138.194.32.1065142744.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <20031006140025.GQ13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
        <3F81EBF0.1060804@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <10460.216.138.194.32.1065480280.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


>> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 08:59:04PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote:
>>
>>>mmmm... using FreeBSD -style partitions and slices, I would say yes,
>>> but with linux I would say use dedicated hard drives per distro.
>>> Otherwise, there are naming problems (both systems need independant /
>>> filesystems, etc.).
>>
>> And how ever do you figure you need to hardhdisks to keep a seperate
>> root partition for each distribution?  That is just silly.
>>
>> Lennart Sorensen
>
> Now now Lennart!
>
>    I thought the same thing might be necesary when I first set out to
> dual-boot Linux... Some of us are still relatively new to Linux and are
> still wrapping our heads around it's (wounderful) girth. :) Keith though
>  might not wanted to have spoken with such authority though before
> knowing for sure.

Ouch. I didn't think of the fstab or boot parameters. Not a dual boot type.
:)


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From evan-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 23:30:05 2003
From: evan-WHMkLBA7RDE at public.gmane.org (Evan Leibovitch)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 19:30:05 -0400
Subject: Is Linux coming to the CFL?
Message-ID: <3F81FAFD.2010501@lpi.org>


http://www.tsn.ca/cfl/teams/news_story.asp?ID=56342&hubName=cfl-tiger_cats


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 23:31:43 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 19:31:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <1065452143.4288.18.camel-0lXLkTl3c71ptQ/RaucIWavRY+knis1x5NbjCUgZEJk@public.gmane.org>
References: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <1065452143.4288.18.camel@theconstruct.mineallmeyn.net>
Message-ID: <10657.216.138.194.32.1065483103.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Sun, 2003-10-05 at 17:25, Keith Mastin wrote:
>> redhat-7.3
>> apache-1.3.27-3
>> php-4.1.2
>
>> Here's the code:
>> contact.php:
>> <?php
>> mail("info-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org",
>> "Contact form test",
>> "$comments"
>> );
>
> This is a long shot, but maybe you need a valid From header, given in
> the fourth argument to mail()?  I've read that some MTA's puke if they
> don't get it, though it doesn't really jive with your log entry.

As it turned out, it had nothing to do with the code. Postfix-2.0.15
wasn't accepting mail from apache, failing with a permission error to
write to the postdrop directory. We mucked around with it for a while, and
finally came to the conclusion that the only way for this to work now is
to add the user apache to the postfix and postdrop groups. I'm still
unsure of all the security implications here, but I'm sure there will be
something.

In the end, I compiled php-4.3.2 from sources as it's not available for
this version of redhat. I got an updated php version and a questionable
permissions configuration out of the deal.



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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 19:51:54 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 15:51:54 -0400
Subject: Is Linux coming to the CFL?
In-Reply-To: <3F81FAFD.2010501-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org>; from evan-WHMkLBA7RDE@public.gmane.org on Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 19:30:05 -0400
References: <3F81FAFD.2010501@lpi.org>
Message-ID: <20031006195154.GA2589@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

Shows how out of the loop I am... I didn't even know that Young was a  
Canadian.

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 00:22:10 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:22:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061257290.928-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061257290.928@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <10888.216.138.194.32.1065486130.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> What I do when I get lost is cause a php script to create a file in
> /tmp. This will have the permissions and umask of the cgi executor in
> that context. This is usually enough to continue with the problem. F.ex.
> you can su to that user and try to exec sendmail. Also see the
> install permissions of the relevant libs (libphp, pibZend).

Okay, install permissions is a concept I'm having a problem grasping. Php
needs to be installed with sendmail permissions. What does this mean? That
I su - postfix while running make? Or that I do the whole configure, make
and make install routines as root?

My friend came over earlier and we traced the problem out of php to
postfix/apache permissions, using a similar method watching the logs and
top. The /tmp file thing sounds interesting though.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)696 6070


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 00:52:54 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 20:52:54 -0400
Subject: Is Linux coming to the CFL?
In-Reply-To: <20031006195154.GA2589-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F81FAFD.2010501@lpi.org> <20031006195154.GA2589@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F820E66.70709@rogers.com>

You must be.  It was well known he was from Hamilton and I recall 
reading about that donation last year.


Austin wrote:
> Shows how out of the loop I am... I didn't even know that Young was a  
> Canadian.
> 
> Austin
> -- 
>                                 Austin Acton
>        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
>               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 00:58:07 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 20:58:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <200310052334.36536.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <10633.216.138.194.32.1065402184.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <200310052334.36536.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <11150.216.138.194.32.1065488287.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


> On Sunday 05 October 2003 21:03, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> > What are the permissions on your maildrop directory?  In Debian the
>> maildrop  directory is /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/ and these are
>> the permissions:
>> >
>> > drwx-wx--T    2 postfix  postdrop       48 Oct  5 19:02 maildrop
>>
>> I didn't have the sticky bit set. Setting it didn't make a difference.
>> Get this. I set the dir to 777, tried again... still no joy.
>
> Postfix is a very security concious program, security conscious programs
> do  not like 777 permissions and often will puke and die if you set them
> that  way.  Anyway, can't say I've ever had the problem you're
> describing,  officially out of ideas now.
>
>> snafu's with security fixes breaking something. So if apache is ran as
>> apache.shadow-readers, sendmail is root.root and postfix is run as
>> postfix.postdrop, who do I compile php as? Arrgh!
>
> You should compile php as anyone (non-root), few programs should (or
> need to  be) compiled as the root user.

I always compile and make as user kmastin, then do the make install as
root. As it turns out, this whole issue is of permissions between apache
and postfix. Apache doens't have permission to write to the postdrop
directory.


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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 01:15:28 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Mon, 06 Oct 2003 21:15:28 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca> <20030930143617.GL13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8213B0.50308@sympatico.ca>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

>On Sun, Sep 28, 2003 at 01:43:23PM -0400, Moniz wrote:
>  
>
>>Does anyone know much about the UWO residence setup? I configured my 
>>daughter's PC to use Mandrake 9.1 in her residence at UWO. They are on a 
>>residence network called reznet. All seems to be working fine.
>>
>>Here comes the "except". Within reznet, they seem to have some kind of 
>>p2p for sharing files and I think it's only for the reznet people. Since 
>>it's somewhat restricted, it is very fast. There is a web site for 
>>downloading the required software for file sharing, but of course, it's 
>>a .exe file, and she couldn't make it work. So I get complaints that 
>>Linux can't download files.
>>
>>Does anyone know if a linux p2p program (I use gtk-gnutella at home) 
>>could be used for this? What configuration questions should I be asking 
>>the reznet admin people so that I could duplicate in the linux program?
>>
>>Any guidance would be appreciated.
>>    
>>
>
>If they really do officially use p2p to share files (I can't imagine
>whos bright idea that was), then perhas mldonkey will work.  It supports
>some 10 or so p2p protocols.
>
>Might work.  Knowing which protocol is really what you need to know.
>
>  
>
I found out that it is a p2p gnutella based protocol. I'll try 
gtk-gnutella unless there's a better one out there.

John.


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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 01:52:56 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 21:52:56 -0400
Subject: cdot office pics
In-Reply-To: <20031006184136.GA2709-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031006184136.GA2709@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <200310062152.57310.marc@lijour.net>


As a high-school teacher, I would be very very interested to be contacted by 
these guys!

Marc

Le 6 Octobre 2003 14:41, Austin a ?crit :
> Hi,
> I mentioned seeing this new office at Seneca at York going up, and I just had
> to post pictures of it, becuase it's so cool.  These are like 12 foot glass
> walls all decorated with open source 'stuff'.  I contacted the guy running
> the project (CDOT, Center for the Developemtn of Open Technologies), and
> he's a really cool guy.  Their main focus right now is getting Linux labs
> into Ontario high schools, but they plan to also promote Linux at Seneca in
> the near future... I hope I can help a bit, as I've been doing that at York
> for years.  :-)
>
> http://groundstate.ca/cdot.jpeg
> http://groundstate.ca/cdot2.jpeg
>
> Also, this gave me a chance to try out my new digital camera.  ;-)  It
> works perfectly with linux incidentally... USB Mass Storage is cool.
>
> Austin
> --
>                                  Austin Acton
>         Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
>                Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>         MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct  6 22:14:51 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 18:14:51 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
In-Reply-To: <3F8213B0.50308-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 21:15:28 -0400
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca> <20030930143617.GL13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F8213B0.50308@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031006221451.GA3415@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>


On 10/06/2003 09:15:28 PM, Moniz wrote:
> I found out that it is a p2p gnutella based protocol. I'll try gtk-gnutella  
> unless there's a better one out there.

Are you serious?  UWO is ENCOURAGING their students to use gnutella?  This is  
really weird (but kinda cool too).  I've been afraid for a long time that York  
would get mad at me for using gtk-gnutella so much...

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 02:33:07 2003
From: login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 22:33:07 -0400
Subject: tar process is keep running
In-Reply-To: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCGEIICFAA.grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCGEIICFAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1431569036.20031006223307@istop.com>


f.y.i

Problem resolved by updating the tape firmware today. Now the the
/bin/gtar -xvf /dev/st0 dir/of/backup/filename takes usual time to
restore depending on the size of filename. We get the prompt right
after the file is copied to hard drive.

Listing the tape contents does take time. I know this is usual as
the whole tape has to go through scan but restoring a file given
with its full path (i.e. dir/of/backup/filename ) should simply
"go and get it". True?

Thanks all for your input.

S. Mohammad [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]

Sunday, October 5, 2003, 5:51:20 PM, you wrote:

GC> Does the reading ever end?  When doing a tar restore, tar will scan the
GC> entire tape looking for the file you want to restore.  Because multiple
GC> copies of the same file can be on the tape tar keeps looking to make sure it
GC> has the latest one, the on it finds last.

GC> Grant Cullen
GC> JADALL Consulting Ltd.
GC> grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 03:02:15 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 23:02:15 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <200310051322.35561.mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450>
	<3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com>
	<20031004183627.GB24229@m450>
	<200310051322.35561.mervc@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20031006230215.7d994c8c.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Sun, 5 Oct 2003 13:22:35 -0400
Merv Curley <mervc-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> On October 4, 2003 02:36 pm, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> >   b) I've installed FVWM.  I can't find switchdesk, which does the
> > config setup to switch from GNOME to KDE or FVWM or whatever.  How do I
> > do this in Debian.
> >
> From the kdm or gdm login managers.  Should have been that way in Red Hat 

   I am running Red Hat 8 on a Pentium II/350, with GDM and FVWM.  Also, I have installed this on my Toshiba laptop with a Pentium 233.  GDM will launch FVWM, or TWM or any other window manager you might want.  Look into /etc/X11/gdm/Sessions.  This is what configures the sessions menu in GDM.  You should be able to figure it out.  You will have to add an FVWM launch line to /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession.  Again, you should be able to figure this out.

   All of this should go fo XFCE, OLWM or any other unofficial window manager you might want to add to Red Hat.
> 
> Have fun
> 
> Merv
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 04:41:24 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 00:41:24 -0400
Subject: LILO Dual boot problem
In-Reply-To: <1065194733.11802.18.camel-ITwdOxvjmYGzQn7slwBnqtBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031003022743.01fbb9b0@mail.interlog.com>
 <5.2.1.1.0.20031003022743.01fbb9b0@mail.interlog.com> <1065194733.11802.18.camel@hannah.alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031007001742.01eac340@mail.interlog.com>

At 11:25 AM 10/03/2003 -0400, Madison wrote:
>I think you have answered my problem... I believe that the current
>'/boot/message' is being symlinked to the fancy-shmancy graphical
>Mandrake boot message. I will try replacing it and seeing ifthat will
>fix the problem...

That would make a difference. Use the copy of /boot/message that is part of 
the Lilo RPM.

>Thank you very much for the long message!! I will post my result for
>archival sake if it works!

Since you indicated you were using Grub and wanted to switch to Lilo I 
wasn't sure how familiar you were with the basics of setting up the config 
files for Lilo. At any rate, the information I provided might help someone 
else in setting up Lilo or customizing it.

You should also remember to edit out parts of the messages you are replying 
to which don't help to maintain context. Especially when replying to a long 
message like my recent one. It will help to keep peoples e-mail boxes from 
completely overflowing.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 04:51:16 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 00:51:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: cdot office pics
In-Reply-To: <200310062152.57310.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310062152.57310.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310070047350.12609-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

that sounds like the new TEL building.  I am a recent graduate of seneca's 
CTY program.  I know they're always looking for unix gurus to teach, I guess 
not many people want to do it.


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> 
> As a high-school teacher, I would be very very interested to be contacted by 
> these guys!
> 
> Marc
> 
> Le 6 Octobre 2003 14:41, Austin a ?crit :
> > Hi,
> > I mentioned seeing this new office at Seneca at York going up, and I just had
> > to post pictures of it, becuase it's so cool.  These are like 12 foot glass
> > walls all decorated with open source 'stuff'.  I contacted the guy running
> > the project (CDOT, Center for the Developemtn of Open Technologies), and
> > he's a really cool guy.  Their main focus right now is getting Linux labs
> > into Ontario high schools, but they plan to also promote Linux at Seneca in
> > the near future... I hope I can help a bit, as I've been doing that at York
> > for years.  :-)
> >
> > http://groundstate.ca/cdot.jpeg
> > http://groundstate.ca/cdot2.jpeg
> >
> > Also, this gave me a chance to try out my new digital camera.  ;-)  It
> > works perfectly with linux incidentally... USB Mass Storage is cool.
> >
> > Austin
> > --
> >                                  Austin Acton
> >         Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
> >                Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
> >         MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 11:57:28 2003
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 07:57:28 -0400
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310010922360.17738@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <20031002044128.98966.qmail@web41507.mail.yahoo.com> <20031002190042.GP13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <006601c38cca$2ed17ff0$4127fea9@middleearth.quadratic.net>

googled "qnx cisco"

http://www.cisco.com/warp/public/146/pressroom/1998/may98/16.html

so what did cisco do prior to QNX?

http://pdp10.nocrew.org/docs/cisco.html

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Lennart Sorensen" <lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Some funny MS Propaganda


> On Thu, Oct 02, 2003 at 12:41:28AM -0400, Michael wrote:
> > Okay, first of all "running The Internet" is a vague term, generally
> > my own experience suggests that the servers not the routers run the
> > Internet - I know it sounds odd but that seems to be the convention.
> > (I may be wrong on that point.)
> > 
> > Now as for IOS... okay yes Cisco boxes run IOS, which is a big bad
> > ugly name (bad and ugly because it does not really describe what IOS
> > is) for what is nothing more than a shell that runs on top of QNX.
> > Basically IOS is what the router administrator uses to modify the
> > router configuration, for example set up VLANs (it runs on Cisco
> > switches too) set up routes, change Routing Protocols (not to be
> > confused with routed protocols), and so on.
> > 
> > The point is IOS is a lot of I (as in Interface) and not really an
> > OS. So what runs a Cisco router? QNX. QNX is designed to feel like
> > Unix, but it is NOT Unix. Not by a million miles is QNX even close to
> > Unix.
> 
> I can't find ANYTHING that indicates IOS runs on QNX, and I actually
> find it hard to believe, since I don't think QNX generally runs on non
> x86 hardware, and I don't think Cisco uses x86 hardware.  I have only so
> far found a reference mentioning Cisco was considering putting a real
> time OS into IOS, but that they hadn't done so yet (as of 2002 it would
> appear).  I suppose QNX would have added more types of hardware by now
> though.
> 
> > You can read tons on QNX at a number of places:
> > 
> > http://www.qnx.com
> > http://student.math.uwaterloo.ca/~cs452
> > http://mjc88.0catch.com
> > 
> > Now a little history lesson. In the late 1970s two U of Waterloo
> > computer science students (a grad student who had a B Sc in Physics -
> > from UW) and a 4'th year undergrad took a course, CS 452 (Real Time
> > Programming) anyone here, who took CS at U(W) can tell you about the
> > infamous "trains course". - You need to build a real time OS that
> > runs on bare hardware (currently on an i486, back in the 70's it was
> > something else obviously) then you need to build an application that
> > talks to a toy train set and makes the trains to amazing things. You
> > have three months and you can work in teams of one or two, good luck!
> > - Anyway back in the 70s our heroes took the above course and were so
> > inspired, delighted, shocked into total insanity, that they decided
> > to open up a little company in their home town (Ottawa) to sell there
> > little project which they called QNX.
> > 
> > (I also took CS 452 and that's why a. I know all about this and b.
> > why I still cower at the sight of toy train sets.)
> > 
> > Now the reason you read my little tale, QNX is based on a CS 452 OS
> > project, CS 452 was the brain child of a PhD student who had this
> > nifty idea: "why not strip everything you don't totally need out of
> > the OS kernel and use IPC to do everything the kernel traditionally
> > does." In other-words, why not make a Micro kernel, and use special
> > mechanism for IPC, the special mechanisms are called kernel
> > primitives, and there are three:
> > 
> > int send(void * pid, void * msg, int length);
> > int receive(void * msg, void * senderPID);
> > reply(void * msg, int length);
> > 
> > (Its been a while, I may have the syntax wrong, sorry.)
> 
> It isn't nice to remind people of these things... :)
> 
> > Now you build these synchronous kernel primitives and then you build
> > yourself serial servers, keyboard servers, video servers and you have
> > yourself an OS which you can sell to Cisco systems and make your
> > millions.
> > 
> > Now why would Cisco want a micro kernel instead of a monolithic? Well
> > for one thing Micro Kernels service interrupts really really fast,
> > for another thing, it is much easier to assert that QNX will really
> > be hard real time than say RT Linux.
> 
> Which may be why what I found indicates that Cisco is considering doing
> it, but it sure looked like they hadn't done so yet.  There does seem to
> be some talk of a QNX based IOS sometime this year, but it would be a
> new things then.
> 
> > Where can I take a course as interesting and exciting as CS 452? (If
> > you really want to know the answer to that question you probably
> > ought to turn yourself in to the Queen Street mental health unit,
> > otherwise if you really want to know the answer go take CS 452 at
> > U(W).)
> 
> Well at least it was still there last time I stopped by.
> 
> Lennart Sorensen
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 12:16:16 2003
From: david-FkEgs2FKm2NvBvnq28/GKQ at public.gmane.org (David Thornton)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:16:16 -0400
Subject: wu-ftpd exploit and RH 6.2
References: <20030805145459.37836.qmail@web41504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00bf01c38ccc$cefdea70$4127fea9@middleearth.quadratic.net>

here hear!

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Michael" <mjc106-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 10:54 AM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: wu-ftpd exploit and RH 6.2


> > You may want to patch those 6.2 FTP servers regarding this one:
> > 
> > http://rhn.redhat.com/errata/RHSA-2003-245.html
> > 
> > Patch is easily applied to the current 6.2 SRPMS.
> 
> At the risk of sounding like an ad for ProFTP, don't use wu-ftp, if
> you really need to run an FTP server, use something else - wu-ftp is
> old and has a lot of security issues. (Anyone who does not support
> anonymous ftp may want to consider shutting down FTPd and only allow
> scp... there are freeware windows scp clients available.)
> 
> Michael
> 
> ______________________________________________________________________ 
> Post your free ad now! http://personals.yahoo.ca
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 12:26:17 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:26:17 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <10657.216.138.194.32.1065483103.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <1065452143.4288.18.camel@theconstruct.mineallmeyn.net> <10657.216.138.194.32.1065483103.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <200310070826.17610.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 06 October 2003 19:31, Keith Mastin wrote:

> As it turned out, it had nothing to do with the code. Postfix-2.0.15
> wasn't accepting mail from apache, failing with a permission error to
> write to the postdrop directory. We mucked around with it for a while, and
> finally came to the conclusion that the only way for this to work now is
> to add the user apache to the postfix and postdrop groups. I'm still
> unsure of all the security implications here, but I'm sure there will be
> something.

There's no way that apache should be a member of the postdrop group.  The 
implication is that apache can write directly to the maildrop directory.  A 
malicious apache process (CGI or whatever) could dump bogus data into the 
postdrop directory possibly screwing up legitimate email delivery, if it 
isn't a shared server then the risk is pretty small.  Postfix tries to be 
smart about security, using multiple processes for each step in delivery, one 
process not trusting the other so I doubt that the security implications are 
more serious than a DoS.

If you read the postfix anatomy documents 
(http://www.postfix.org/receiving.html) you'll see that /usr/sbin/sendmail 
invokes postdrop to deliver mail into the maildrop directory.  I suspect that 
the permissions on your postdrop program are incorrect, they look like this 
on Debian:

-r-xr-sr-x    1 root     postdrop     7564 Jul 28 18:58 /usr/sbin/postdrop

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 13:05:59 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:05:59 -0400
Subject: Linux vs. Windows Viruses
Message-ID: <1065531959.8198.3.camel@linux.local>

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/56/33226.html

A good article on Linux vs. Windows Viruses, and the general working of
Linux. Send this to people you are trying to convert over. Might just be
the final push for some...


-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                              jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 13:48:22 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:48:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Linux vs. Windows Viruses
In-Reply-To: <1065531959.8198.3.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065531959.8198.3.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310070945460.900-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Jason Shein wrote:

> A good article on Linux vs. Windows Viruses, and the general working of
> Linux. Send this to people you are trying to convert over. Might just be
> the final push for some...
> 

>From http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-115

Is Windows a Virus?

No, Windows is not a virus. Here's what viruses do:

    * They replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that. 

    * Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as
they do so - okay, Windows does that. 

    * Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay,
Windows does that too. 

    * Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with
valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Windows does that, too. 

    * Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too
slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Windows,
too. 

Until now it seems Windows is a virus but there are fundamental
differences:Viruses are well supported by their authors, are running on
most systems, their program code is fast, compact and efficient and they
tend to become more sophisticated as they mature.

So Windows is not a virus.

It's a bug.


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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 13:54:19 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:54:19 -0400
Subject: Linux vs. Windows Viruses
In-Reply-To: Message from "Teodor Iliescu" <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 48:22 EDT." <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310070945460.900-100000-zVIyXm3mjq1oM55T5W/052G8O1WwMoTE@public.gmane.org> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310070945460.900-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>
Message-ID: <20031007135420.5F43A3FEE@cbbrowne.com>

> From http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-115
> 
> Is Windows a Virus?
> 
> No, Windows is not a virus. Here's what viruses do:
> 
>     * They replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that. 
> 
>     * Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as
> they do so - okay, Windows does that. 
> 
>     * Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay,
> Windows does that too. 
> 
>     * Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with
> valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Windows does that, too. 
> 
>     * Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too
> slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Windows,
> too. 
> 
> Until now it seems Windows is a virus but there are fundamental
> differences:Viruses are well supported by their authors, are running on
> most systems, their program code is fast, compact and efficient and they
> tend to become more sophisticated as they mature.
> 
> So Windows is not a virus.
> 
> It's a bug.

That makes me feel old.

I saw that on the wall at the office back in 1993.
--
let name="aa454" and tld="freenet.carleton.ca" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;;
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sgml.html
How is my programming?  Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 14:23:46 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:23:46 -0400
Subject: Linux vs. Windows Viruses
In-Reply-To: <20031007135420.5F43A3FEE-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310070945460.900-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca> <20031007135420.5F43A3FEE@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <3F82CC72.50700@alteeve.com>

I remember it being posted to my Renegade BBS was back when... Funny 
thing is all these years later it has only become more tre. ;)

Madison

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>>From http://www.annoyances.org/exec/show/article09-115
>>
>>Is Windows a Virus?
>>
>>No, Windows is not a virus. Here's what viruses do:
>>
>>    * They replicate quickly - okay, Windows does that. 
>>
>>    * Viruses use up valuable system resources, slowing down the system as
>>they do so - okay, Windows does that. 
>>
>>    * Viruses will, from time to time, trash your hard disk - okay,
>>Windows does that too. 
>>
>>    * Viruses are usually carried, unknown to the user, along with
>>valuable programs and systems. Sigh... Windows does that, too. 
>>
>>    * Viruses will occasionally make the user suspect their system is too
>>slow (see 2) and the user will buy new hardware. Yup, that's with Windows,
>>too. 
>>
>>Until now it seems Windows is a virus but there are fundamental
>>differences:Viruses are well supported by their authors, are running on
>>most systems, their program code is fast, compact and efficient and they
>>tend to become more sophisticated as they mature.
>>
>>So Windows is not a virus.
>>
>>It's a bug.
> 
> 
> That makes me feel old.
> 
> I saw that on the wall at the office back in 1993.
> --
> let name="aa454" and tld="freenet.carleton.ca" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;;
> http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sgml.html
> How is my programming?  Call 1-800-DEV-NULL
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 




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From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 14:47:07 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:47:07 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
Message-ID: <Law14-F100MBW4kltLH0000d393@hotmail.com>

> > >DRM is welcome imho if it will stop the flood of counterfeit copyware 
>that
> > >floods and destroys markets, and if it will cause the riaa etc to back 
>off
> > >from pressuring other uses of shared bandwidth. It is not welcome if it
> > >locks the ability to use the machine for other things, such as writing
> > >your own code/device driver or copying your own anniversary and wedding
> > >DVDs and CDs (a real problem right now). In the way they want to do it 
>now
> > >DRM is not welcome, as it locks both.

DRM is the police-state on your computer.

The most significant factor w.r.t. software (and in fact any intellectual 
property in the digital age) as an "economic product" is that its marginal 
cost approaches zero. Ie., once the "product" is market-ready, it can be 
reproduced ad-infinitum, virtually (ha ha) for free.

Which means that it is characteristically "abundant", rather than "scarce" 
like traditional economic products made out of atoms. But the money that we 
are using is "scarce" money. Since many people understand the distinction 
between scarce money and abundant economic products at a gut level, many are 
quite hesitant about spending their hard-earned (scarce) dollars for 
(abundant) digital products like software.

I believe the real solution is to develop an "abundant" currency that can be 
used for such products, which will comprise an ever-increasing portion of 
the GNP, much as industrial products supplanted agriculture as the principle 
area of economic activity.





-Hugh
_______________________________________________
Hugh Reilly
XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab
600 Bay Street, Suite 405
Toronto ON  M5R 1G6
tel: 416-204-9951
fax: 416-204-9723
email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
_______________________________________________
http://www.xen.ca  |  http://www.linuxlab.ca

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 15:45:37 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:45:37 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <200310070826.17610.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <1065452143.4288.18.camel@theconstruct.mineallmeyn.net> <10657.216.138.194.32.1065483103.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <200310070826.17610.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031007154537.GC32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 08:26:17AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Monday 06 October 2003 19:31, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
> > As it turned out, it had nothing to do with the code. Postfix-2.0.15
> > wasn't accepting mail from apache, failing with a permission error to
> > write to the postdrop directory. We mucked around with it for a while, and
> > finally came to the conclusion that the only way for this to work now is
> > to add the user apache to the postfix and postdrop groups. I'm still
> > unsure of all the security implications here, but I'm sure there will be
> > something.
> 
> There's no way that apache should be a member of the postdrop group.  The 
> implication is that apache can write directly to the maildrop directory.  A 
> malicious apache process (CGI or whatever) could dump bogus data into the 
> postdrop directory possibly screwing up legitimate email delivery, if it 
> isn't a shared server then the risk is pretty small.  Postfix tries to be 
> smart about security, using multiple processes for each step in delivery, one 
> process not trusting the other so I doubt that the security implications are 
> more serious than a DoS.
> 
> If you read the postfix anatomy documents 
> (http://www.postfix.org/receiving.html) you'll see that /usr/sbin/sendmail 
> invokes postdrop to deliver mail into the maildrop directory.  I suspect that 
> the permissions on your postdrop program are incorrect, they look like this 
> on Debian:
> 
> -r-xr-sr-x    1 root     postdrop     7564 Jul 28 18:58 /usr/sbin/postdrop

Well for exim all I have had to do ever is add: trusted-user: www-data
to the config, to allow apache to send mail pretending to be whatever
user it is sending mail from.  Similar to many mailing list managers
really.  It has no need to have access to anything other than running
mail or sendmail command, with enough trust to specify who the mail is
from.

Lennart Sorensen
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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 16:01:52 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:01:52 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
Message-ID: <20031007160152.SBGV20854.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>

Well, the security implications are understandable, but what's the solution if sendmail and other stuff are run under apache user, and su .... -c '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i' doesn't work. The only other solution I see, is to write a stub that would accept input from php and then send it to postfix under different privileges.  

Sergey


> 
> From: Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/07 Tue AM 08:26:17 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: php mail() function not working
> 
> On Monday 06 October 2003 19:31, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
> > As it turned out, it had nothing to do with the code. Postfix-2.0.15
> > wasn't accepting mail from apache, failing with a permission error to
> > write to the postdrop directory. We mucked around with it for a while, and
> > finally came to the conclusion that the only way for this to work now is
> > to add the user apache to the postfix and postdrop groups. I'm still
> > unsure of all the security implications here, but I'm sure there will be
> > something.
> 
> There's no way that apache should be a member of the postdrop group.  The 
> implication is that apache can write directly to the maildrop directory.  A 
> malicious apache process (CGI or whatever) could dump bogus data into the 
> postdrop directory possibly screwing up legitimate email delivery, if it 
> isn't a shared server then the risk is pretty small.  Postfix tries to be 
> smart about security, using multiple processes for each step in delivery, one 
> process not trusting the other so I doubt that the security implications are 
> more serious than a DoS.
> 
> If you read the postfix anatomy documents 
> (http://www.postfix.org/receiving.html) you'll see that /usr/sbin/sendmail 
> invokes postdrop to deliver mail into the maildrop directory.  I suspect that 
> the permissions on your postdrop program are incorrect, they look like this 
> on Debian:
> 
> -r-xr-sr-x    1 root     postdrop     7564 Jul 28 18:58 /usr/sbin/postdrop
> 
> -- 
> Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
> Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux
> 
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 16:58:17 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 12:58:17 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <20031007160152.SBGV20854.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net-+p+fmPhZGT9zEkMh6vRF2A@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031007160152.SBGV20854.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>
Message-ID: <200310071258.17484.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 07 October 2003 12:01, serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> Well, the security implications are understandable, but what's the solution
> if sendmail and other stuff are run under apache user, and su .... -c
> '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i' doesn't work. The only other solution I see, is
> to write a stub that would accept input from php and then send it to
> postfix under different privileges.  

/usb/sbin/sendmail can be run by any user on the system, no need to su, no 
need for it to be suid/sgid (we're talking postfix systems here not 
necessarily others).  Programs such as /bin/mail, pine, mutt, php, etc. all 
use this program directly, users running those programs should not be members 
of the postdrop group.

As I understand it, /usr/sbin/sendmail passes mail to a program called 
postdrop for further processing.  Taking a stab at Keith's problem I guessed 
that his postdrop binary is not setgid postdrop, if that is the case he will 
definitely get a permission denied message when running /usr/sbin/sendmail 
(and consequently postdrop).

On a redhat system you should probably have these permissions seem typical:

    /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix, owner root:root, mode 555 (or 755)
    /usr/sbin/postdrop, owner root:postdrop, mode 2555 (or 2775)
    /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/, owner postfix:postdrop, mode 730

The only difference on my Debian systems is that /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/ 
has the sticky bit set (mode 1730), this may not be necessary.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 17:09:15 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:09:15 +0200 (IST)
Subject: WAP <-> Linux
In-Reply-To: <20031006193424.GB32152-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826550.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031006193424.GB32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071907570.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 06, 2003 at 06:28:28PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > has anyone done anything with Wap and phone-based browsers on Linux ? I am
> > just starting with this, and I have some problems. Most importantly, my
> > phone seems unable to enter some characters, like the tilde '~'. There may
> > be other issues too.
> >
> > any input would be appreciated,
>
> My phone has no problem entering ~, it is on the symbol menu.
>
> I have used hawhaw lib for php to generate some small wap sites for my
> own use.

Thanks, I will look into this. And into another phone. This one has the M$
mini-Exploder. It crashes like its big brother from time to time. What
other browsers are there ? I know there is some form of Opera for
embedded. Any ideas what to look for ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 17:10:15 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:10:15 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Some funny MS Propaganda
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061642490.11107-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061642490.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071909380.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> was QNX the version of unix that cisco used for IOS then?

QNX is not a version of Unix. It just happens to have many compatible
syscalls, it's a real time embedded os.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 17:11:37 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:11:37 +0200 (IST)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071910290.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> why not assembly?  I thought most bioses were written in that.

Were. Maintaining ~128k of assembly is everyone's nightmare. Now it seems
to be a mixture of C, code generators and assembly. I do not write BIOSes
;-)

Peter
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 17:12:56 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:12:56 -0400
Subject: WAP <-> Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071907570.534-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826550.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031006193424.GB32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071907570.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031007171255.GD32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 07:09:15PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > My phone has no problem entering ~, it is on the symbol menu.
> >
> > I have used hawhaw lib for php to generate some small wap sites for my
> > own use.
> 
> Thanks, I will look into this. And into another phone. This one has the M$
> mini-Exploder. It crashes like its big brother from time to time. What
> other browsers are there ? I know there is some form of Opera for
> embedded. Any ideas what to look for ?

I ave only used the WAP browser on my Samsung phones (and a few other
WAP browsers, usually from phone.com or some other similar company).

No idea about PDA browsers, although I suspect those do HTML instead.

The HawHaw lib has the nice feature of auto detecting many browsers and
setting the output as needed for that browser.

http://www.opengraphics.com/dnd/ is the page I have as a small test I
wrote.  It should work from almost any browser in a nice way.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 17:15:15 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:15:15 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071910290.534-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310061700120.11107-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071910290.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031007171515.GE32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 07:11:37PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
> > why not assembly?  I thought most bioses were written in that.
> 
> Were. Maintaining ~128k of assembly is everyone's nightmare. Now it seems
> to be a mixture of C, code generators and assembly. I do not write BIOSes
> ;-)

They also don't seem to be 128K anymore.

At least some now have 256K BIOS chips, which have compressed code in
them that decompresses at boot to do the self test, then blows itself
away, and the bios setup program is also compressed and will decompress
and load when needed.  Only the code that has to be called at runtime by
DOS and such, has to actually be in the chip in a readable form, which I
think on most systems account for 32KB or less.  On my 486 it is about
23K.

Lennart Sorensen
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 17:42:00 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 19:42:00 +0200 (IST)
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <10888.216.138.194.32.1065486130.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061257290.928@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <10888.216.138.194.32.1065486130.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071919170.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 6 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> > What I do when I get lost is cause a php script to create a file in
> > /tmp. This will have the permissions and umask of the cgi executor in
> > that context. This is usually enough to continue with the problem. F.ex.
> > you can su to that user and try to exec sendmail. Also see the
> > install permissions of the relevant libs (libphp, pibZend).
>
> Okay, install permissions is a concept I'm having a problem grasping. Php
> needs to be installed with sendmail permissions. What does this mean? That
> I su - postfix while running make? Or that I do the whole configure, make
> and make install routines as root?

You do all install as root, make and config as whoever you wish, unless
otherwise specified. This is in general for packages that must be
installed system-wide. For packages that install in the user dir, you do
not become root to install (presumably because you can't anyway - being a
luser). This is not your case. There are very few packages that need local
install as luser (unfortunately - this tends to keep the system
clean(er) imho).

> My friend came over earlier and we traced the problem out of php to
> postfix/apache permissions, using a similar method watching the logs and
> top. The /tmp file thing sounds interesting though.

I do not know what Apache mail() does but under postfix all local mail is
injected into sendmail whose permissions should be root.root w/o any suid.
It in turn calls postdrop (the application, not the directory!!!) which
runs SGID postfix and thus has access to the postdrop directory. If mail()
shortcuts these then what you say makes sense. Check your postfix docs for
exact permisson data (postfix check should report problems), my postfix is
old(er).

If there would be a way to make mail() send SMTP to localhost instead of
attempting to deliver it, then it would probably work with any setup, and
leave the mail routing to postfix, and the firewalling to the firewall
(you need not use only port 25 for incoming ...). That way these apps
should stop trampling on each other's permissions and everything should
keep working even if you upgrade something.

F.ex. on my home machine I use pine over POP3/SMTP to connect to the local
postfix/popper daemons instead of local delivery just to avoid locking
problems. It works great, never lost mail, no problems upgrading anything.
The result is that I can open several instances of pine on the
mailbox(es), only one having the lock token (and being able to modify -
all the other instances can only read), I can open TkMail, OpenOffice,
Opera Mail etc. all at the same time (OO will empty the mailbox but will
put the mail back when closing it). Since POP3 is locked by the server
side no problems with concurrent access.  Who needs IMAP ? ;-)

In general I force all the apps to use the localhost or local network for
access, with the exception of system scripts and daemons which post admin
mail using sendmail. This has worked great for my home machine for
serveral years now.

good luck,

Peter
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 18:15:49 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:15:49 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071919170.534-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <10888.216.138.194.32.1065486130.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061257290.928@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <10888.216.138.194.32.1065486130.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071919170.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031007141056.01fbf080@mail.interlog.com>

At 07:42 PM 10/07/2003 +0200, Peter wrote:
>If there would be a way to make mail() send SMTP to localhost instead of
>attempting to deliver it, then it would probably work with any setup, and
>leave the mail routing to postfix, and the firewalling to the firewall
>(you need not use only port 25 for incoming ...). That way these apps
>should stop trampling on each other's permissions and everything should
>keep working even if you upgrade something.

The Perl scripts I have used on web pages that needed to send mail simply 
invoked the /bin/mail command to send mail. If you can do the same thing 
from PHP you will have a solution that will work regardless of the mail 
system used and you won't have to worry about permissions.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 18:24:19 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:24:19 +0200 (IST)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Law14-F100MBW4kltLH0000d393-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F100MBW4kltLH0000d393@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072016290.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Hugh Reilly wrote:

> I believe the real solution is to develop an "abundant" currency that can be
> used for such products, which will comprise an ever-increasing portion of
> the GNP, much as industrial products supplanted agriculture as the principle
> area of economic activity.

I can't wait to see that happen. I was born and lived in a communist
country for 23 years before I could leave and I could tell you a lot more
than fits in 200 emails about the general long term effects of abundant
anything, and that includes air, and monopoly money of the kind some
governments print in abundance whenever it becomes 'scarce'. See under
'inflation' and gov't budget excesses for more technical explanations.

I do not teach economics (my grandpa did - and that does not mandate me
to), nor do I have a degree, but I'd suggest you to read up seriously on
the historic effect of monopoly money on the economy of various countries.
The more recent (financial) history of England or Germany or France (in
the XXth century) as reflected in the standard of living of the respective
nations would be a good start for that imho. No offence meant, I really
believe this is important to know.

Peter
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From Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 18:25:59 2003
From: Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:25:59 -0400
Subject: cdot office pics
References: <20031006184136.GA2709@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <blv0fq$8ie$1@sea.gmane.org>

Could you please provide more info about CDOT.

Thanks,
Tom.

"Austin" <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> wrote in message
news:20031006184136.GA2709-33sJirT1wKwp8wJkwDEKW/BjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RNjYx0XDsrlOQ at public.gmane.org
Hi,
I mentioned seeing this new office at Seneca@
going up, and I just had to
post pictures of it, becuase it's so cool.  These are like 12 foot glass
walls
all decorated with open source 'stuff'.  I contacted the guy running the
project (CDOT, Center for the Developemtn of Open Technologies), and he's a
really cool guy.  Their main focus right now is getting Linux labs into
Ontario high schools, but they plan to also promote Linux at Seneca in the
near future... I hope I can help a bit, as I've been doing that at York for
years.  :-)

http://groundstate.ca/cdot.jpeg
http://groundstate.ca/cdot2.jpeg

Also, this gave me a chance to try out my new digital camera.  ;-)  It works
perfectly with linux incidentally... USB Mass Storage is cool.

Austin
--
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 18:42:06 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:42:06 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
Message-ID: <20031007184206.UNYJ25271.tomts25-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>

Well, the issue is that postfix's sendmail (stub) shoud be run either under postfix or root privileges, otherwise you will get "permission denied" error because of access rights set on 'postdrop' and other postfix's directories which are approximately dxrw-r---- (well, don't kill me for the small mistakes). And sendmail (stub) (at least the one Keith has installed) runs all other services (postdrop, .....) under the same privilege it was run (well, it's the fact). I mean if you are logged in with the name 'jdoe' and try to run (postfix's) /../sendmail -i -t from console you will get the "postdrop ....permission denied" error message. PHP itself runs a program defined in "sendmail_path" variable of its php.ini file using popen(...), which can end up running it like exec("...","sh","-c","$sendmail_path").

And another thing, is that you can't use /mail because PHP doesn't use \n.\n, but just closes the pipe, initiating the end of session.

Sergey


> 
> From: Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/07 Tue PM 12:58:17 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: php mail() function not working
> 
> On Tuesday 07 October 2003 12:01, serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Well, the security implications are understandable, but what's the solution
> > if sendmail and other stuff are run under apache user, and su .... -c
> > '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i' doesn't work. The only other solution I see, is
> > to write a stub that would accept input from php and then send it to
> > postfix under different privileges.  
> 
> /usb/sbin/sendmail can be run by any user on the system, no need to su, no 
> need for it to be suid/sgid (we're talking postfix systems here not 
> necessarily others).  Programs such as /bin/mail, pine, mutt, php, etc. all 
> use this program directly, users running those programs should not be members 
> of the postdrop group.
> 
> As I understand it, /usr/sbin/sendmail passes mail to a program called 
> postdrop for further processing.  Taking a stab at Keith's problem I guessed 
> that his postdrop binary is not setgid postdrop, if that is the case he will 
> definitely get a permission denied message when running /usr/sbin/sendmail 
> (and consequently postdrop).
> 
> On a redhat system you should probably have these permissions seem typical:
> 
>     /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix, owner root:root, mode 555 (or 755)
>     /usr/sbin/postdrop, owner root:postdrop, mode 2555 (or 2775)
>     /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/, owner postfix:postdrop, mode 730
> 
> The only difference on my Debian systems is that /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/ 
> has the sticky bit set (mode 1730), this may not be necessary.
> 
> -- 
> Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
> Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux
> 
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 18:31:37 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:31:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <200310070826.17610.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <10065.216.138.194.32.1065389104.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <1065452143.4288.18.camel@theconstruct.mineallmeyn.net>
        <10657.216.138.194.32.1065483103.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
        <200310070826.17610.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <13259.216.138.194.32.1065551497.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<quote who="Fraser Campbell">
> There's no way that apache should be a member of the postdrop group.
> The  implication is that apache can write directly to the maildrop
> directory.  A  malicious apache process (CGI or whatever) could dump
> bogus data into the  postdrop directory possibly screwing up legitimate
> email delivery, if it  isn't a shared server then the risk is pretty
> small.  Postfix tries to be smart about security, using multiple
> processes for each step in delivery, one  process not trusting the other
> so I doubt that the security implications are more serious than a DoS.

We thought it through before leaving it in that state. The option was (fix
found on the internet) is to make postdrop 1777 rather than the 1730 it is
now. I didn't like that option at all.

The server handles quite a few domains, so keeping up with system security
is an issue. The machine is tight with a strong IDS, very little shell
access (myself basically) and is updated as soon as the advisories come
in.

I'm going to have to tighten up the security profile of php so that only
the sites that I personally can check the scripting on can run php
scripts. The syntax to check input is pretty straight forward. If there's
a way to not do this though, I'de be happy to hear about it, and so would
quite a few others who run into the same problem.

> If you read the postfix anatomy documents
> (http://www.postfix.org/receiving.html) you'll see that
> /usr/sbin/sendmail  invokes postdrop to deliver mail into the maildrop
> directory.  I suspect that  the permissions on your postdrop program are
> incorrect, they look like this  on Debian:
>
> -r-xr-sr-x    1 root     postdrop     7564 Jul 28 18:58
> /usr/sbin/postdrop

My perms are -rwxr-s-r-x root postdrop

I ran post install and permissions tools, had some errors that I asked
about on the postfix list. I guess one has to be a member of a certain
small subset to get an answer on that list for anything outside of simple
configuration or anti-spam hints. I install postfix from sources, had no
issues with the install process.

What is needed is permission for apache/php to be able to call sendmail or
postfix/postdrop without kicking because of permissions errors. Postfix
guys say it's an apache problem, apache/php guys say it's a postfix
problem, but at the end of the day it still doesn't work without making
some kind of permissions adjustment somewhere.



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From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 18:53:18 2003
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:53:18 -0400
Subject: Installing linux on a linux machine
Message-ID: <Sea2-F68SfWXWzRPTNZ00000b00@hotmail.com>

Hi all!

I want to install RedHat es2.1 on an existing es2.1 machine. Any suggestions 
or pointers on where to start would be greatly appreceated.

Thanx,
Martin

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 18:58:49 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 20:58:49 +0200 (IST)
Subject: WAP <-> Linux
In-Reply-To: <20031007171255.GD32152-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826550.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031006193424.GB32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071907570.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031007171255.GD32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072047140.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 07:09:15PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> > Thanks, I will look into this. And into another phone. This one has the M$
> > mini-Exploder. It crashes like its big brother from time to time. What
> > other browsers are there ? I know there is some form of Opera for
> > embedded. Any ideas what to look for ?
>
> I ave only used the WAP browser on my Samsung phones (and a few other
> WAP browsers, usually from phone.com or some other similar company).

Does your browser show a M$ logo when starting ?

> No idea about PDA browsers, although I suspect those do HTML instead.

My GSM phone does html via provider's proxy (requires no effort on my side
apart from typing urls - groan). And support could not tell me how to type
'~' although the phone displays it ok. Argh. Browsing sites like Google on
a 64x128 (I think) b/w lcd screen is 'interesting' but it works.

> The HawHaw lib has the nice feature of auto detecting many browsers and
> setting the output as needed for that browser.
>
> http://www.opengraphics.com/dnd/ is the page I have as a small test I
> wrote.  It should work from almost any browser in a nice way.

Ah, ok, thanks. I tried with the simple phone I have. I can only see text
(like in Lynx), unless its wbmp.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 19:00:52 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:00:52 +0200 (IST)
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031007141056.01fbf080-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <10888.216.138.194.32.1065486130.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061257290.928@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <10888.216.138.194.32.1065486130.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
 <5.2.1.1.0.20031007141056.01fbf080@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072059580.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Kevin Cozens wrote:

> At 07:42 PM 10/07/2003 +0200, Peter wrote:
> >If there would be a way to make mail() send SMTP to localhost instead of
> >attempting to deliver it, then it would probably work with any setup, and
> >leave the mail routing to postfix, and the firewalling to the firewall
> >(you need not use only port 25 for incoming ...). That way these apps
> >should stop trampling on each other's permissions and everything should
> >keep working even if you upgrade something.
>
> The Perl scripts I have used on web pages that needed to send mail simply
> invoked the /bin/mail command to send mail. If you can do the same thing
> from PHP you will have a solution that will work regardless of the mail
> system used and you won't have to worry about permissions.

Yes but it is better to call sendmail under postfix instead. Works the
same (almost).

Peter
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 19:14:33 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:14:33 -0400
Subject: WAP <-> Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072047140.534-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310061826550.1279@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031006193424.GB32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310071907570.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031007171255.GD32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072047140.534@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031007191433.GF32152@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 08:58:49PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> Does your browser show a M$ logo when starting ?

No this one shows OpenWave, the previous phone showed phone.com.

> My GSM phone does html via provider's proxy (requires no effort on my side
> apart from typing urls - groan). And support could not tell me how to type
> '~' although the phone displays it ok. Argh. Browsing sites like Google on
> a 64x128 (I think) b/w lcd screen is 'interesting' but it works.

Yeah I think that is how most WAP phones try to do things (through a
proxy) which sometimes does an OK job of random sites, and other times it
is useless.

> Ah, ok, thanks. I tried with the simple phone I have. I can only see text
> (like in Lynx), unless its wbmp.

That is normal.  Some newer phones can do PNG and JPG as well.

Lennart Sorensen
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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 19:57:02 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:57:02 -0400
Subject: php mail() function not working
Message-ID: <20031007195702.HVR20854.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.22]>

Guys,

In fact, to send e-mails PHP calls a program defined in sendmail_path variable of its configuration file, by default is's sendmail -t -i.

Sergey

> 
> From: Kevin Cozens <kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/07 Tue PM 02:15:49 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: php mail() function not working
> 
> At 07:42 PM 10/07/2003 +0200, Peter wrote:
> >If there would be a way to make mail() send SMTP to localhost instead of
> >attempting to deliver it, then it would probably work with any setup, and
> >leave the mail routing to postfix, and the firewalling to the firewall
> >(you need not use only port 25 for incoming ...). That way these apps
> >should stop trampling on each other's permissions and everything should
> >keep working even if you upgrade something.
> 
> The Perl scripts I have used on web pages that needed to send mail simply 
> invoked the /bin/mail command to send mail. If you can do the same thing 
> from PHP you will have a solution that will work regardless of the mail 
> system used and you won't have to worry about permissions.
> 
> 
> Cheers!
> 
> Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)
> 
> Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
> E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
> Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
> #include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 21:03:40 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:03:40 -0400
Subject: Installing linux on a linux machine
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F68SfWXWzRPTNZ00000b00-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F68SfWXWzRPTNZ00000b00@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F832A2C.3060802@alteeve.com>

I imaging that it would be the same as I have done here with vanilla 
RedHat 9.0. Say that the current install '/' is on '/dev/hda1' then 
choose a different, unused partition (same or other HDD) to install the 
new '/' to (say '/dev/hda4' or '/dev/hdb1'). Of course use '/dev/sd*' 
for SCSI. :)

Madison

Martin Duclos wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
> I want to install RedHat es2.1 on an existing es2.1 machine. Any 
> suggestions or pointers on where to start would be greatly appreceated.
> 
> Thanx,
> Martin
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> 
> -- 
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 22:56:41 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:56:41 -0400
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
Message-ID: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper>

I have a PII computer, and does not recognize an 80GB drive from the BIOS.
It is running RH9. I booted into RH9, and I suspect since I do not have
proper BIOS support,
that RH9 also cannot access the drive properly.

Any ideas on getting this to work in RH9?
Maybe adding a PCI IDE controller card?










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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 07:33:36 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:33:36 -0400
Subject: Installing linux on a linux machine
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F68SfWXWzRPTNZ00000b00-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 14:53:18 -0400
References: <Sea2-F68SfWXWzRPTNZ00000b00@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031007073336.GA2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/07/2003 02:53:18 PM, Martin Duclos wrote:
> I want to install RedHat es2.1 on an existing es2.1 machine. Any  
> suggestions or pointers on where to start would be greatly  
> appreceated.

We do this all the time with Mandrake.  We often want to install both  
the development version and the latest stable version on the same  
machine.  This is easily done with a newtork install to a chroot.   
Since redhat doesn't use an automated rpm system, this may not be as  
trivial with redhat, but I haven't used it in a long while, so this  
document may give you an idea of how to do it...

http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/ChrootHowTo

Austin 
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 23:30:38 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 19:30:38 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca> <20030930143617.GL13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F8213B0.50308@sympatico.ca> <20031006221451.GA3415@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F834C9E.7000007@sympatico.ca>

Austin wrote:

>
> On 10/06/2003 09:15:28 PM, Moniz wrote:
>
>> I found out that it is a p2p gnutella based protocol. I'll try 
>> gtk-gnutella  unless there's a better one out there.
>
>
> Are you serious?  UWO is ENCOURAGING their students to use gnutella?  
> This is  really weird (but kinda cool too).  I've been afraid for a 
> long time that York  would get mad at me for using gtk-gnutella so 
> much...
>
I'm sure this is a student thing more than the University encouraging 
it. The student body seems to be very influential there (it appears to 
me anyway). But it only works within the residence computers, I don't 
think there's any downloading through the internet. I'm not sure if 
that's going to cause problems for me setting up gtk-gnutella.

John.


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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 07:43:41 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:43:41 -0400
Subject: cdot office pics
In-Reply-To: <blv0fq$8ie$1@sea.gmane.org>; from Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 14:25:59 -0400
References: <20031006184136.GA2709@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <blv0fq$8ie$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20031007074341.GE2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/07/2003 02:25:59 PM, Tom wrote:
> Could you please provide more info about CDOT.

http://cdot.senecac.on.ca/

You now know as much as I do.  :-)

Austin
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct  7 07:45:46 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:45:46 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
In-Reply-To: <3F834C9E.7000007-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 19:30:38 -0400
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca> <20030930143617.GL13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F8213B0.50308@sympatico.ca> <20031006221451.GA3415@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <3F834C9E.7000007@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031007074546.GG2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/07/2003 07:30:38 PM, Moniz wrote:
> I'm sure this is a student thing more than the University encouraging  
> it. The student body seems to be very influential there (it appears  
> to me anyway). But it only works within the residence computers, I  
> don't think there's any downloading through the internet. I'm not  
> sure if that's going to cause problems for me setting up gtk- 
> gnutella.

Shouldn't be.
BTW, I am the maintainer for the Mandrake RPMS.  I forget what distro  
you said you were using though.  The latest gtk-gnutella is much better  
than past versions.  You can find the RPMS at
http://plf.zarb.org

(p2p software is banned from mandrake except for bittorrent)

Austin 
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 00:05:03 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 20:05:03 -0400
Subject: UWO Reznet / P2P Help
References: <3F771DBB.6060703@sympatico.ca> <20030930143617.GL13910@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F8213B0.50308@sympatico.ca> <20031006221451.GA3415@gamma373-002.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <3F834C9E.7000007@sympatico.ca> <20031007074546.GG2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8354AF.4080202@sympatico.ca>

Austin wrote:

> On 10/07/2003 07:30:38 PM, Moniz wrote:
>
>> I'm sure this is a student thing more than the University 
>> encouraging  it. The student body seems to be very influential there 
>> (it appears  to me anyway). But it only works within the residence 
>> computers, I  don't think there's any downloading through the 
>> internet. I'm not  sure if that's going to cause problems for me 
>> setting up gtk- gnutella.
>
>
> Shouldn't be.
> BTW, I am the maintainer for the Mandrake RPMS.  I forget what distro  
> you said you were using though.  The latest gtk-gnutella is much 
> better  than past versions.  You can find the RPMS at
> http://plf.zarb.org
>
> (p2p software is banned from mandrake except for bittorrent)

I installed Mandrake 9.1 on her PC. No wonder I couldn't find 
gtk-gnutella in the installed packages. Thanks for the link.

John.

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 01:18:16 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:18:16 -0400
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
In-Reply-To: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <20031008011816.GA6053@m450>

On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 06:56:41PM -0400, Teddy Mills wrote
> I have a PII computer, and does not recognize an 80GB drive from the BIOS.
> It is running RH9. I booted into RH9, and I suspect since I do not have
> proper BIOS support,
> that RH9 also cannot access the drive properly.
> 
> Any ideas on getting this to work in RH9?
> Maybe adding a PCI IDE controller card?

  No need to do that.  The problem is that your computer's BIOS (from
back in the PII days) doesn't recognize the drive.  Linux (including
RH9) handles large drives OK with its own driver... *BUT* linux is not
active when you boot.  The BIOS has to start the process of loading
linux.  That's your chicken-and-egg problem.  There are two solutions.

  1) Quick-n-dirty... make a linux boot floppy.  "man mkbootdisk" should
get you started.

  2) Re-install linux, and re-partition the drive creating a 50 megabyte
/boot partition at the beginning of the disk (/dev/hda1).  Your
computer's BIOS should be able to load the boot image off that, and
linux's driver can take over from that point.

  Here's the disk layout I recommend...
  /dev/hda1 ==> /boot (set bootable)  50 megs
  /dev/hda2 ==>       extended partition; the rest of the hard drive.
  /dev/hda5 ==> /     3 gigs for the OS (just to play safe)
  /dev/hda6 ==> swap  512 megs
  /dev/hda7 ==> /var  512 megs.  This is a security measure.  If your
                      / partition runs out of space, *BAD THINGS* happen.
                      If your log files (/var/log) or mailspool fill a
                      separate partition, some info gets lost, but your
                      system is not hosed.
  /dev/hda8 ==> /misc The rest of the harddrive.  Make certain that you
                      answer yes when the install asks about installing
                      the symlinks program

  First time you boot after the install...
  -   log in as root
  -   mv /home /misc/home
  -   ln -s /misc/home /home

  This creates a soft link from /misc/home to /home.  There are two
advantages to this...

  1) You can fill up your user account without hurting the root
     partition

  2) A few months from now when you want to install a newer version
     - Tell the installer to reformat hda1 and hda5 and hda7, but do not
       touch /hda8
     - create exactly the same partition layout as before
     - First time you boot after the install...
       -   log in as root
       -   rm -r /home
       -   ln -s /misc/home /home
     and you've got your user account back in place.  That was something
     I learned back in my DOS and Windows days.  Keep the OS on separate
     partions from your data.  That way, you can re-install, re-install,
     re-install, without losing your data partition.

  Here's my layout.  It's similar to the one above, but I don't need a
separate /boot partition

Disk /dev/hda: 41.1 GB, 41110142976 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 4998 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

   Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
/dev/hda1   *         1       499   4008186   83  Linux
/dev/hda2           500      4998  36138217+   5  Extended
/dev/hda5           500       531    257008+  82  Linux swap
/dev/hda6           532       594    506016   83  Linux
/dev/hda7           595      4998  35375098+  83  Linux

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 01:19:20 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:19:20 -0400
Subject: Thanks to everybody for the Debian help
Message-ID: <20031008011920.GB6053@m450>

  Thanks for all the responses to my initial flurry of questions.  The
system is now up and running FVWM, sound, and 80X40 textmode console.
I did a minimal initial install, so I'm slowly adding more stuff via
apt-get as the need arises.  It's a humbling experience to be a newbie
all over again.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 01:55:00 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:55:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: php mail() function not working
In-Reply-To: <200310071258.17484.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031007160152.SBGV20854.tomts27-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>
        <200310071258.17484.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <14147.216.138.194.32.1065578100.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<quote who="Fraser Campbell">
> On Tuesday 07 October 2003 12:01, serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>> Well, the security implications are understandable, but what's the
>> solution if sendmail and other stuff are run under apache user, and su
>> .... -c '/usr/sbin/sendmail -t -i' doesn't work. The only other
>> solution I see, is to write a stub that would accept input from php
>> and then send it to postfix under different privileges.

The pipe solution we were talking about.  I'm not convinced it's
necessary. I still think the hint is in the php compilation instructions,
to compile php with user privileges for sendmail.

> /usb/sbin/sendmail can be run by any user on the system, no need to su,
> no  need for it to be suid/sgid (we're talking postfix systems here not
> necessarily others).

My sendmail binary is set 755, so yes, it should be executable by any
user. If executed by apache though, the process hangs at the handoff to
postdrop.

>                     Programs such as /bin/mail, pine, mutt, php, etc.
> all  use this program directly, users running those programs should not
> be members  of the postdrop group.
>
> As I understand it, /usr/sbin/sendmail passes mail to a program called
> postdrop for further processing.  Taking a stab at Keith's problem I
> guessed  that his postdrop binary is not setgid postdrop, if that is the
> case he will  definitely get a permission denied message when running
> /usr/sbin/sendmail  (and consequently postdrop).

-rwxr-sr-x    1 root     postdrop   359703 Sep 10 15:32 /usr/sbin/postdrop

> On a redhat system you should probably have these permissions seem
> typical:
>
>     /usr/sbin/sendmail.postfix, owner root:root, mode 555 (or 755)
755 root

> /usr/sbin/postdrop, owner root:postdrop, mode 2555 (or 2775)
2755 root.postdrop

>     /var/spool/postfix/maildrop/, owner postfix:postdrop, mode 730
630 postfix.postdrop, reset to 1730

That was so simple, and it bugs me that it wasn't documented anywhere. I
have (and read/refer to) the Blum book, I'm a member of the users list,
read all the docs pretty much extensively, yet there's no replacement for
good old tlug. :)

Unfortunately, it didn't fix the problem. Unless apache is a member of the
postfix and postdrop groups, the message hangs in a memory process because
of permissions problems.

Throwing another curve ball is the fact that mod_auth_pam is needed for
.htaccess for hundreds of users on 2 domains hosted on the server. I had
to change the user that apache runs under from apache to shadow-readers.



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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 02:23:12 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:23:12 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Law14-F100MBW4kltLH0000d393-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F100MBW4kltLH0000d393@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F837510.2060509@truxtar.com>

Can you please explain this vision of 'abundant currency' in political 
and economical terms? (seriously)

Be sure to read Peter's reply first please.

Hugh Reilly wrote:

>
> DRM is the police-state on your computer.
>
> The most significant factor w.r.t. software (and in fact any 
> intellectual property in the digital age) as an "economic product" is 
> that its marginal cost approaches zero. Ie., once the "product" is 
> market-ready, it can be reproduced ad-infinitum, virtually (ha ha) for 
> free.
>
> Which means that it is characteristically "abundant", rather than 
> "scarce" like traditional economic products made out of atoms. But the 
> money that we are using is "scarce" money. Since many people 
> understand the distinction between scarce money and abundant economic 
> products at a gut level, many are quite hesitant about spending their 
> hard-earned (scarce) dollars for (abundant) digital products like 
> software.
>
> I believe the real solution is to develop an "abundant" currency that 
> can be used for such products, which will comprise an ever-increasing 
> portion of the GNP, much as industrial products supplanted agriculture 
> as the principle area of economic activity.



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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 02:29:13 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 22:29:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
In-Reply-To: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310072228480.15089-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

if yiu're lucky, the manufacturer may have a bios upgrade to fix this. 


On Tue, 7 Oct 2003, Teddy Mills wrote:

> I have a PII computer, and does not recognize an 80GB drive from the BIOS.
> It is running RH9. I booted into RH9, and I suspect since I do not have
> proper BIOS support,
> that RH9 also cannot access the drive properly.
> 
> Any ideas on getting this to work in RH9?
> Maybe adding a PCI IDE controller card?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 02:44:25 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:44:25 -0400
Subject: Debian-newbie questions
In-Reply-To: <20031005195008.GA2611-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031002042150.GA19923@m450> <3F7BABE3.6050408@rogers.com> <20031003054853.GC22366@m450> <3F7D1419.5090200@rogers.com> <20031004183627.GB24229@m450> <3F7F470F.3060605@rogers.com> <20031005195008.GA2611@m450>
Message-ID: <3F837A09.5090108@rogers.com>

waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 04, 2003 at 06:17:51PM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote
> 
> 
>>I don't. Do you need xanim to watch video? If so, it's better to use 
>>xine or mplayer. Go to http://www.apt-get.org (one of the most wonderful 
>>Debian resources :-)) and search for these apps, look for "stable" 
>>packages, note the "deb" line for your /etc/apt/source.list in the 
>>search results. Don't forget to execute `apt-get update` after adding 
>>this line, then just apt-get mplayer or xine.
> 
> 
>   A general security question here; is there a way get a list of
> new/upgraded packages broken down by site?  Specifically, packages at
> security.debian.org.  Any way to list security updates only for packages
> that I have currently installed ?  "ls -al /var/lib/apt/lists" seems to
> be a possible beginning to this process.
> 
$apt-get dist-upgrade -s

this will simulate packages installation, just watch the stdout for the 
list of packages.

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 03:54:54 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 23:54:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
In-Reply-To: <20031008011816.GA6053-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper> <20031008011816.GA6053@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072351260.14608@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

>   2) Re-install linux, and re-partition the drive creating a 50 megabyte
> /boot partition at the beginning of the disk (/dev/hda1).  Your
> computer's BIOS should be able to load the boot image off that, and
> linux's driver can take over from that point.

Spot on Walt.  One comment I would add though - make sure the kernel image
(normally vmlinuz) is actually in /boot since some distros have been known
to stick it in / (less common these days but worth remembering :)

>   Here's the disk layout I recommend...
>   /dev/hda1 ==> /boot (set bootable)  50 megs
>   /dev/hda2 ==>       extended partition; the rest of the hard drive.
>   /dev/hda5 ==> /     3 gigs for the OS (just to play safe)

An additional option is to split off /usr as well.  If this is done / can
be alot smaller (with the additional disk space going to /usr instead).

>   /dev/hda6 ==> swap  512 megs
>   /dev/hda7 ==> /var  512 megs.  This is a security measure.  If your
>                       / partition runs out of space, *BAD THINGS* happen.
>                       If your log files (/var/log) or mailspool fill a
>                       separate partition, some info gets lost, but your
>                       system is not hosed.
>   /dev/hda8 ==> /misc The rest of the harddrive.  Make certain that you
>                       answer yes when the install asks about installing
>                       the symlinks program
>
>   First time you boot after the install...
>   -   log in as root
>   -   mv /home /misc/home
>   -   ln -s /misc/home /home

Why not just make /home a seperate partition?  When it comes to upgrade
time you can just umount that partition and make sure you don't blam it
during the upgrade.  No need to mess around with symlinks then.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 04:17:30 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:17:30 -0400
Subject: SCO visit
Message-ID: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

I went out to the SCO City to City tour.

Well, there were under 30 people at the event at peak (a few people came and
went during the meeting) and well, it was strange...

SCO noted they had the backing of the following firms for their City-to-City
Tour:

- Hewlett-Packard
- Microlight
- LoneStar Software
- Ericom Software

though they noted there was some question of how much they could promote H-P
on their website, H-P was supporting this tour...

There were some open lies told by the SCO people like they put up a slide
that said:

   "SCO, owner of the UNIX operating system is a world-wide leading provider
of software technology business applications..."

Now I will not get into the "a world-wide leading provider" bit as you could
stretch that hard enough to claim it true, rather without the approval of
"The Open Group" it isn't (officially) Unix, in other words SCO can not say
what is or is legally UNIX. Also, IBM's OS/390 has gotten that official UNIX
designation, without any reference to SCO or SCO owned code, so there is
more than the one UNIX (even if you buy ALL of SCO's implied F.U.D. (Fear
Uncertainty Doubt)).

Goals noted for SCO were:

1. Increasing Company Value
2. Attain Profitability
3. Relaunch the SCO Brand
4. Creating Partner $$$
5. Establish IP Leadership

They noted that they had done points one to three well, but were not doing
so well on four and five. On point five the SCO Rep. raised the question
"Should software be free?". Their answer was as long as the developer wanted
to make it available and it did not involve theft of someone else's
intellectual property (IP). IP from SCO's point of view is:

- Copyrights
- Contracts
- Trade Secrets
- Know How
- Methods

The last two being so broad, that well, who on this mailing list hasn't
arguably stepped on what SCO might argue is their IP.

The SCO rep noted he had been asked to not get into to much detail regarding
the lawsuits currently flying. One reseller present noted he wanted the
lawsuits at an end because when his customers hear lawsuit, they tend to
walk away. SCO talked about and put some emphasis on their current client
base which includes:

- McDonalds
- Taco Bell
- Shoppers Drugmart
- KFC
- Kmart
- Pizza Hut
- TI

With the possible exception of TI we are talking a heavy emphasis on modest
size/scope highly reliable heavily replicated point of sale systems (i.e.:
EVERY McDonalds in Canada could have exactly the hardware/software set-up
with only a single configuration file being different in each location...).
In other words no talk about the desktop or desktop solutions...

One of the resellers I spoke to during one of the breaks had a laptop with
him running ... RedHat Linux (with a small RedHat logo stuck on the case).

In going forward SCO noted that in first quarter (January - March) of 2004
SCO plans to add the followings to Unixware:

- PAM authentication
- Basic Sound Support
- Native XFree86

I ought to look-up how long Linux has had these programs that SCO Unixware
is just about to get....

There was some question as to the availability of source code for Samba,
Squid, Apache, and Mozilla. One of the resellers there wanted to know how he
could get the source for these programs and the SCO people present were not
sure if it was available...

There was a talk about SCO going into a web based solution for vertical
markets, in particular a web based the supply chain management solution. As
a case study they were looking at a set of oil and gas distribution
industry.

As for free stuff, besides a mediocre breakfast and a good lunch I did get
the following:

- a T-Shirt that has to be read to be believed, in that it makes a series of
statements all true or arguably true about Linux and leaves the impression
that Linux is illegal, without actually saying so.
- A copy of Lonetar back-up software
- A copy of Microlight back-up software
- I won the draw at the end of the show and so I will get my pick of one of
the following:
  - A SCO mail server
  - A SCO authentication program that will let me manage Windows
2000/Unix/Linux users from a Windows 2000 server.

One of the charities I deal with could use the last program, but I want
Windows 2000 out, rather than permanently fixed into that landscape... How
much would anyone on this mailing list pay me for a new SCO mail server, OR
a SCO authentication program for Windows 2000? I mean it should soon be a
collectors item from the late "great" SCO :-) .

Colin McGregor

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 04:34:19 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:34:19 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
Message-ID: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

I had nothing much to say or ask when I started writing this email but now 
that I've thought about it ... do any of you have any experience with 
commercial anti-spam solutions?

Of particular interest to me are Roaring Penguin's CanIt and 
Sophos/ActiveState's PureMessage?  To a lesser extent I am interested in 
commercial RBLs such as MAPS and their effectiveness versus the free RBLs (I 
use sbl.spamhaus.org, bl.spamcop.net and relays.ordb.org).

*Any* other commercial or non-commercial solutions that you find effective I'd 
like to hear about.

I ask about commercial solutions because they usually come with management 
interfaces that I do not have the time to write currently. AFAIK, pure open 
source tools like spamassassin do not have anything other than text config 
files and command line invocations.  Clients mostly seem to prefer GUIs.  I 
would love to hear about mangement interfaces for the open source tools that 
I might have missed.


-- Original rant on W32/Gibe-F preserved below for my amusement --

When this beloved virus first came out I had the pleasure of being one of the 
early recipients, to the tune of 200 copies per day.

I took Henry Spencer's suggestion of blocking all email greater than 140000 
bytes and that was 100% effective, today my mother was trying to email me a 
few pictures and it was over that size, off came the block, back came the 
viruses.

I use bogofilter to filter out my spam and it is happily detecting these 
viruses and putting them in my spam folder, along with the hundreds of 
idiotic messages stating that I have sent a virus and regular spam.  However 
at an average of 145K each that about 900MB of this virus per month that I 
will be receiving, I don't believe that I should be the one paying for that 
bandwidth.

I know that I can solve this problem by putting the size limitation back into 
postfix but there is legitimate email that approaches that size without 
having large executable attachments (check our the barfs on a freeswan list).  

Do we just have to get used to the idea of trashing 10 emails for every 
legitimate one (as is often the case with snail mail)?  What will happen as 
more computer illiterates come online with their incompetent operating 
systems?  Perhaps the solution is to make everyone go back to communicating 
at 9,600bps?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 04:43:09 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:43:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072351260.14608-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper>
        <20031008011816.GA6053@m450>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072351260.14608@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <15178.216.138.194.32.1065588189.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<quote who="Robert Brockway">
> On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:
<snip>
>>   Here's the disk layout I recommend...
>>   /dev/hda1 ==> /boot (set bootable)  50 megs
>>   /dev/hda2 ==>       extended partition; the rest of the hard drive.

Generally I put / and swap on primary partitions if they're available
because I want to deligate the physical area on the drive where they go
too.

>> /dev/hda5 ==> /     3 gigs for the OS (just to play safe)
>
> An additional option is to split off /usr as well.  If this is done /
> can be alot smaller (with the additional disk space going to /usr
> instead).

I've been using 350MB / partitions since the beginning, and have yet to
fill one up. Anything that can go though, does.

Some people also split off /usr/local, but I would venture a guess that's
more for development work.

>>   /dev/hda6 ==> swap  512 megs

You can get away with up to 2047MB here. If you have the disk territory
that's probably going to be just sitting around anyways...

I didn't see a /tmp in the list. /tmp is neat 'cause it can be used to
dump stuff on reboots, and it also sees quite a bit of disk action, so
I'de say it's worh confining.

<snip>
>>   First time you boot after the install...
>>   -   log in as root
>>   -   mv /home /misc/home
>>   -   ln -s /misc/home /home
>
> Why not just make /home a seperate partition?  When it comes to upgrade
> time you can just umount that partition and make sure you don't blam it
> during the upgrade.  No need to mess around with symlinks then.

Not only that, but you can set the partition table so it's set noexec or
nosuid (or both?) to tighten it down a little bit more security-wise. In
any event, I prefer Walt's solution to leaving /home on /. It's..
inventive. :)

-- 
Keith


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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 04:59:39 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 00:59:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SCO visit
In-Reply-To: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310080055010.15340-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I went there also, and I was also suprised that there is a story on 
slashdot about it, written by someone who attended today.  I thought it 
was interesting when I overheard a SCO employee confirm that senior 
management was trying to position the company for acquisition by MS or IBM.  
I was also suprused at how much open source they seem to use with their 
OS's.  

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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 05:06:16 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:06:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080034.19218.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080048030.16599@xword.rogers.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I had nothing much to say or ask when I started writing this email but now
> that I've thought about it ... do any of you have any experience with
> commercial anti-spam solutions?
>
> Of particular interest to me are Roaring Penguin's CanIt and
> Sophos/ActiveState's PureMessage?  To a lesser extent I am interested in
> commercial RBLs such as MAPS and their effectiveness versus the free RBLs (I
> use sbl.spamhaus.org, bl.spamcop.net and relays.ordb.org).
>
> *Any* other commercial or non-commercial solutions that you find effective I'd
> like to hear about.
>
> I ask about commercial solutions because they usually come with management
> interfaces that I do not have the time to write currently. AFAIK, pure open
> source tools like spamassassin do not have anything other than text config
> files and command line invocations.  Clients mostly seem to prefer GUIs.  I
> would love to hear about mangement interfaces for the open source tools that
> I might have missed.

     My spam filter is a bash script (sorry, no GUI, but one could be
     written) that checks the mail on a POP3 server, deletes those
     that it thinks are spam, and downloads the rest. I wrote it to
     deal with the SWEN/Gibe-F virus, of which I was getting close to
     2,000 per day (it's down to 500-600 now).

     Once it was in place, none of them got through. I have not had
     any false rejects, either.

     The script downloads several (a configurable number) of lines of
     the message as well as the header, and checks the whole thing
     against files containing regular expressions.

     It first checks the "allow" file[s], and if it matches anything
     in there, it downloads the message and passes it to procmail
     where aditional filtering can be done. If doesn't get the nod
     from the "allow" file, it checks the "deny" files.

     This is the "deny" file which stopped the SWEN barrage:

^FROM:.*\<MS\> [a-z][a-z]
^From:.*Microsoft.*
^From:.*Inet
^From:.*Internet
^From:.*Security Division
^Subject:.*New Internet Critical Pack
^To:.*client@
^Virus detected
^(To|Cc):.*Network Client
^(To|Cc):.*receiver
^(To|Cc):.*recipient
^(To|Cc):.*user
^(To|Cc):.*Client
^(To|Cc):.*Customer
^(To|Cc):.*Inet Receiver.*
^(TO|Cc):.*Internet
^Content-Type:.*name=.*(.scr|.exe|.pif|.com|.bat)
(Cumulative|Network|Critical).*Patch

     A maximum size can be placed on messages, but I don't use it.

     The script is at: <http://cfaj.freeshell.org/src/scripts/mfilter>

     It's not polished (a first draught), and it lacks domumentation.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 05:11:57 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:11:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080034.19218.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080109530.14608@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> would love to hear about mangement interfaces for the open source tools that
> I might have missed.

Have you heard of or tried webmin?  It is a web based admin gui with
modules for a vast number of OSS apps/servers.

http://www.webmin.com/ for more info.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 05:21:58 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:21:58 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080048030.16599-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080048030.16599@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031008052158.GA1632@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 01:06:16AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> ^FROM:.*\<MS\> [a-z][a-z]
> ^From:.*Microsoft.*
> ^From:.*Inet
> ^From:.*Internet
> ^From:.*Security Division
> ^Subject:.*New Internet Critical Pack
> ^To:.*client@
> ^Virus detected
> ^(To|Cc):.*Network Client
> ^(To|Cc):.*receiver
> ^(To|Cc):.*recipient
> ^(To|Cc):.*user
> ^(To|Cc):.*Client
> ^(To|Cc):.*Customer
> ^(To|Cc):.*Inet Receiver.*
> ^(TO|Cc):.*Internet
> ^Content-Type:.*name=.*(.scr|.exe|.pif|.com|.bat)
> (Cumulative|Network|Critical).*Patch

I found that just
    :0HB
    * ^Content-Type: (audio/(x-wav|x-midi)|application/x-msdownload)
in ~/.procmailrc covers all spams of recent interest.  

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 05:27:41 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:27:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
Message-ID: <15278.216.138.194.32.1065590861.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>

<quote who="Fraser Campbell">
> Hi,
>
> I had nothing much to say or ask when I started writing this email but
> now  that I've thought about it ... do any of you have any experience
> with  commercial anti-spam solutions?
>
> Of particular interest to me are Roaring Penguin's CanIt and
> Sophos/ActiveState's PureMessage?  To a lesser extent I am interested
> in
>  commercial RBLs such as MAPS and their effectiveness versus the free
> RBLs (I  use sbl.spamhaus.org, bl.spamcop.net and relays.ordb.org).

$smtpd_helo_restrictions  or $smtpd_recipient_restrictions in postfix :)
This was just posted on the postfix-users list today. They'll help some...

--START DRAG-N-DROP--
--- main.cf
    smtpd_helo_restrictions =
        permit_mynetworks
        reject_invalid_hostname
        reject_non_fqdn_hostname
        reject_non_fqdn_recipient
        reject_unauth_destination
        reject_non_fqdn_sender
        check_helo_access

    smtpd_recipient_restrictions =
        check_helo_access pcre:/etc/postfix/access-helo.pcre
        check_helo_access hash:/etc/postfix/access-helo
        [...]

--- /etc/postfix/access-helo.pcre
# RFC [2]821 requires IP addresses to be enclosed with square brackets
/^[0-9.]+$/                 550 Your software is not RFC 2821 compliant

--- /etc/postfix/access-helo
localhost.localdomain   REJECT  localhost? Really?  Nah, fix your
'hosts' file!
mail.beechtree.ca       REJECT  Don't use my own hostname
216.113.197.175         REJECT  Don't use my own IP address

Just change the access-helo file to contain your host/domain name(s) and
IP address(es).
--END DRAG-N-DROP--

At the end of the day, I'de say save your $$.

> *Any* other commercial or non-commercial solutions that you find
> effective I'd  like to hear about.
>
> I ask about commercial solutions because they usually come with
> management  interfaces that I do not have the time to write currently.
> AFAIK, pure open  source tools like spamassassin do not have anything
> other than text config  files and command line invocations.  Clients
> mostly seem to prefer GUIs.  I  would love to hear about mangement
> interfaces for the open source tools that  I might have missed.

There is a SpamAssassin frontend available with squirrelmail. Most of
the opensource tools can be accessed by a php or perl front end and
packaged pre-compiled into a webserver for the point-n-drool crowd.

> -- Original rant on W32/Gibe-F preserved below for my amusement --
>
> When this beloved virus first came out I had the pleasure of being one
> of the  early recipients, to the tune of 200 copies per day.
<snip>
> Do we just have to get used to the idea of trashing 10 emails for
> every  legitimate one (as is often the case with snail mail)?  What
> will happen as  more computer illiterates come online with their
> incompetent operating  systems?  Perhaps the solution is to make
> everyone go back to communicating  at 9,600bps?

One of the things I've being seeing more of recently is noise about
registering mailservers, much the same as registering a dns server.
There's a lot of complaints about freedom, etc, but it makes sense. This
would make rbl tables much more accurate and _testable_. Until then,
choosing a good list is a turkey shoot.

-- 
Keith



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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 05:50:14 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:50:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031008052158.GA1632-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080048030.16599@xword.rogers.com>
 <20031008052158.GA1632@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080147020.16599@xword.rogers.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 01:06:16AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> > ^FROM:.*\<MS\> [a-z][a-z]
> > ^From:.*Microsoft.*
> > ^From:.*Inet
> > ^From:.*Internet
> > ^From:.*Security Division
> > ^Subject:.*New Internet Critical Pack
> > ^To:.*client@
> > ^Virus detected
> > ^(To|Cc):.*Network Client
> > ^(To|Cc):.*receiver
> > ^(To|Cc):.*recipient
> > ^(To|Cc):.*user
> > ^(To|Cc):.*Client
> > ^(To|Cc):.*Customer
> > ^(To|Cc):.*Inet Receiver.*
> > ^(TO|Cc):.*Internet
> > ^Content-Type:.*name=.*(.scr|.exe|.pif|.com|.bat)
> > (Cumulative|Network|Critical).*Patch
>
> I found that just
>     :0HB
>     * ^Content-Type: (audio/(x-wav|x-midi)|application/x-msdownload)
> in ~/.procmailrc covers all spams of recent interest.

     That would probably take care of it in my script, too; the main
     reason for not using procmail is to prevent having to download
     multimegabytes every hour.

     Another program that delete at the source is mailfilter:

       <http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/>

     Unfortunately, it only reads the headers, and I found that the
     most reliable block was in the top 10 to 20 lines of the body (as
     also shown by your solution), so I wrote the script. The regex
     files do need tuning.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 10:18:43 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 08 Oct 2003 06:18:43 -0400
Subject: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <1064411000.31787.8.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1064411000.31787.8.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1065608323.16175.6.camel@yoda>

Can anyone confirm if this is happening today?  I really want to go, but
I won't travel all the way to York campus if there's nothing happening.

Kareem


On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 09:43, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> -----Forwarded Message-----
> From: John Selmys <j.selmys-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
> To: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
> Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:45:12 -0400
> 
> At the moment his talk will center around trends in open source. We
> suggested that since the audience will be primarily
> students that perhaps some discussion on open source re education may be
> useful. Anyway he's doing this for free so 
> basically he'll decide.
> 
> If I find out more, I'll let you know.
> 
> John
> ============= 
> 
> 
> Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> > Hi John,
> > 
> > Do you know what will be the topics of his talk?
> > 
> > Thank you,
> > Lloyd
> > 
> > On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 00:20, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> >   
> > > Any idea what the topic of Bob's talk will be?
> > > 
> > > Kareem
> > > 
> > > On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 20:11, ln @post.com wrote:
> > >     
> > > > FYI - from the Seneca Linux club.
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Re: -------- Original Message --------
> > > > Re: Subject: Chairman of the Board
> > > > Re: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400
> > > > Re: From: "John Selmys" <John.Selmys-U9NDqb625Q+nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
> > > > Re: To: linuxclub-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org, isa <isa at titanic.senecac.on.ca>
> > > > 
> > > > Re: Greetings Linux Fans,
> > > > 
> > > > Re:     It is with great pleasure that I announce an open talk by Robert 
> > > > Re: Young, Chairman of RedHat, will take place here at Seneca on Wednesday, 
> > > > Re: Oct 8, 2003. This coup was arranged by Praveen Mitera, the coordinator 
> > > > Re: of our post-diploma database program. My understanding is that the 
> > > > Re: speech will take place in the upper kelidoscope room (S2168) in the SEQ 
> > > > Re: building starting at 3pm. Everyone is welcome. Tell your friends. Bring 
> > > > Re: your parents!
> > > > 
> > > > Re: John
> > > > Re: ps: If there are Questions/Answers at the end then come prepared with 
> > > > Re: your questions.
> > > >  ===============================================================
> > > >       
> >   
> -- 
> Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The illiterate of the 21st century will not be those who cannot
  read and write, but those who cannot learn, unlearn, and relearn.
    -- Alvin Toffler
 ********************************************************************/

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 10:51:43 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 06:51:43 -0400
Subject: SCO visit
In-Reply-To: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F83EC3F.4090401@rogers.com>

Colin McGregor wrote:

> In going forward SCO noted that in first quarter (January - March) of 2004
> SCO plans to add the followings to Unixware:
> 
> - PAM authentication
> - Basic Sound Support
> - Native XFree86

I suppose they'll now sue anyone who doesn't licence those from them.

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 11:43:43 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:43:43 -0400
Subject: SCO visit
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310080055010.15340-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <007501c38d91$6d740440$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

The story I overheard and loved was one of the resellers who noted about how
a few years ago SCO took the "religious" position that the hardware
manufacturers had to write device drivers for SCO Unix. So as a reseller he
was having to walk away from multi-million dollar point of sale system sales
because a client needed an odd ball bit of hardware at the check-out stand
and both SCO and the hardware vendor would not write a driver. So, he was
screaming at SCO to take the cost of the driver out of his commission (as at
one time SCO had a team who could (assuming a semi-co-operative vendor), do
most device drivers in under 3 weeks and for about $10,000. Even with
un-coperative (or bankrupt) hardware SCO could create reverse engineer a
driver for under $100,000. In other words SCO has a long history of shooting
themselves in the foot (ok, so getting into lawsuits with IBM, RedHat and
apparently soon SGI, SCO seems to be aiming at the head rather than
foot...).

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Justin Zygmont" <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: SCO visit


> I went there also, and I was also suprised that there is a story on
> slashdot about it, written by someone who attended today.  I thought it
> was interesting when I overheard a SCO employee confirm that senior
> management was trying to position the company for acquisition by MS or
IBM.
> I was also suprused at how much open source they seem to use with their
> OS's.
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 11:56:15 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 07:56:15 -0400
Subject: SCO visit
References: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F83EC3F.4090401@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <008201c38d93$2d81dc20$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"James Knott" <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Wednesday, October 08, 2003 6:51
AM wrote:


> Colin McGregor wrote:
>
> > In going forward SCO noted that in first quarter (January - March) of
2004
> > SCO plans to add the followings to Unixware:
> >
> > - PAM authentication
> > - Basic Sound Support
> > - Native XFree86
>
> I suppose they'll now sue anyone who doesn't licence those from them.

Likely, and they will presumably sue the software developers for infringing
on their intellectual property (after all they seem to think the GPL doesn't
matter when they don't want it to matter...). Hummm, because of the AT&T
settlement SCO can NOT go after the guts of the BSDs, in a few months do
think we will hear SCO talking about how there is source code in SCO that
has been "directly copied" in FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc...?

Colin.

P.S.:

Things Found in the Microsoft Cafeteria

 11. Age of Entr?es
 10. Lunch Service Pack (fixes lack of butter in mashed potatoes and leak in
drinking glass)
 9. IISed Tea
 8. Blue Screen of Death By Chocolate Cake
 7. Fat16-Free Mayo
 6. Zoo Tycoon Wild Game Appetizer Sampler
 5. Outlook Espresso
 4. Imitation Apple Pie
 3. Patch Cobbler
 2. Hotmail waiters
 1. Steve-ish MeatBallmers

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 12:33:42 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 08:33:42 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080034.19218.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080823310.7470@ns.istop.com>

Another RBL I've found useful is the easynet.nl RBL.  We use a few RBLs, a
few postfix anti-spam features (like fqdn in the HELO), plus postfix body
checks to block things like SWAN.

I don't like spamassassin since it's a resource hog (I'm talking about
running on a mail server with thousands of accounts).

I've looked for a free honeypot/rbl package but haven't found one.  I
figure something like that plus a dynamic soft bounce (4xx retry) for new
smtp servers would get our spam rejection rate up from ~80% to >95% while
still maintaining near 0 false positives.

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 13:17:07 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:17:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080823310.7470-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080823310.7470@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080915300.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> I don't like spamassassin since it's a resource hog (I'm talking about
> running on a mail server with thousands of accounts).

Have you tried it in client/server mode (ie, using spamc & spamd).
Perhaps with that many accounts it is a resource hog even if used this way
:)

> I've looked for a free honeypot/rbl package but haven't found one.  I
> figure something like that plus a dynamic soft bounce (4xx retry) for new

How would that be an advantage, given that the remote MTA will just try
again later?

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 13:25:12 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:25:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
In-Reply-To: <15178.216.138.194.32.1065588189.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrg0iQupBogloZqQE7yCjDx5@public.gmane.org>
References: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper>        <20031008011816.GA6053@m450>
        <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072351260.14608@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <15178.216.138.194.32.1065588189.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080920320.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> Generally I put / and swap on primary partitions if they're available

Yeah, I do the same.  Makes me feel safer :)  The way logical partitions
get renumbered (on partition deleted) unless you turn that "feature" off
can be worrying :)

> I've been using 350MB / partitions since the beginning, and have yet to
> fill one up. Anything that can go though, does.
>
> Some people also split off /usr/local, but I would venture a guess that's
> more for development work.

I used to do that a long time ago but dropped it in the end.

> >>   /dev/hda6 ==> swap  512 megs
>
> You can get away with up to 2047MB here. If you have the disk territory
> that's probably going to be just sitting around anyways...
>
> I didn't see a /tmp in the list. /tmp is neat 'cause it can be used to
> dump stuff on reboots, and it also sees quite a bit of disk action, so
> I'de say it's worh confining.

Using tmpfs can improve usage of the disk _and_ performance since it
placeds /tmp in virtual memory.  More on this in my upcoming talk about
system optimisation.

> Not only that, but you can set the partition table so it's set noexec or
> nosuid (or both?) to tighten it down a little bit more security-wise. In

For those reading along, these can be set using the mount command line or
in /etc/fstab.

> any event, I prefer Walt's solution to leaving /home on /. It's..
> inventive. :)

;)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 13:43:34 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 09:43:34 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080915300.20489-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080823310.7470@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080915300.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <200310080943.34175.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 08 October 2003 09:17, Robert Brockway wrote:

> > I've looked for a free honeypot/rbl package but haven't found one.  I
> > figure something like that plus a dynamic soft bounce (4xx retry) for new
>
> How would that be an advantage, given that the remote MTA will just try
> again later?

Ralph is talking about greylisting I believe. It is supposed to be very 
effective since many spammers, and viruses, do not actually retry their 
emails.  There's a whitepaper at http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 14:00:31 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:00:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080034.19218.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031008095638.29009B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> I took Henry Spencer's suggestion of blocking all email greater than 140000 
> bytes and that was 100% effective, today my mother was trying to email me a 
> few pictures and it was over that size, off came the block, back came the 
> viruses.

Alas, yes, the size block does interfere with legitimate traffic at times.
I've had to route stuff around mine once or twice.  (And if I was still on
the FreeS/WAN lists, it would be a big problem...)

> ...Perhaps the solution is to make everyone go back to communicating 
> at 9,600bps?

Instituting the death penalty for spamming might help. :-)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 14:02:42 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:02:42 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I have tried Spam Assassin and other filters, but have given up trying to keep up with the spammers.

I now use a program called messagewall. (http://messagewall.org) It is a qmail server built to be an email gateway.

(I was looking to set up something similar, but since they had already done it for me, why bother?) 

It uses a number of checks to checks to determine spam, but it does not filter by keywords.

It uses reverse DNS, DNSRBL's, message headers, and attachment filtering. You can decide how strict you want the system to be and the user forum is pretty good.

Since I implemented this gateway our spam has been reduced almost 90%. I don't receive any attachments that are executable in the Windoze world so I have been spared the agony of receiving all those nasty attachments.

However; if I could have my way I would implement an opt-in email system similar to TMDA. I personally don't have an issue with registering with an email system to send email. I do that already with user lists. Other users in our company are not so sure. Of course if everyone used that kind of system, Spammers would probably find a way around it as well.

Hmmm....

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Fraser Campbell [mailto:fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 12:34 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Anti spam solutions

Hi,

I had nothing much to say or ask when I started writing this email but now 
that I've thought about it ... do any of you have any experience with 
commercial anti-spam solutions?

Of particular interest to me are Roaring Penguin's CanIt and 
Sophos/ActiveState's PureMessage?  To a lesser extent I am interested in 
commercial RBLs such as MAPS and their effectiveness versus the free RBLs (I 
use sbl.spamhaus.org, bl.spamcop.net and relays.ordb.org).

*Any* other commercial or non-commercial solutions that you find effective I'd 
like to hear about.

I ask about commercial solutions because they usually come with management 
interfaces that I do not have the time to write currently. AFAIK, pure open 
source tools like spamassassin do not have anything other than text config 
files and command line invocations.  Clients mostly seem to prefer GUIs.  I 
would love to hear about mangement interfaces for the open source tools that 
I might have missed.


-- Original rant on W32/Gibe-F preserved below for my amusement --

When this beloved virus first came out I had the pleasure of being one of the 
early recipients, to the tune of 200 copies per day.

I took Henry Spencer's suggestion of blocking all email greater than 140000 
bytes and that was 100% effective, today my mother was trying to email me a 
few pictures and it was over that size, off came the block, back came the 
viruses.

I use bogofilter to filter out my spam and it is happily detecting these 
viruses and putting them in my spam folder, along with the hundreds of 
idiotic messages stating that I have sent a virus and regular spam.  However 
at an average of 145K each that about 900MB of this virus per month that I 
will be receiving, I don't believe that I should be the one paying for that 
bandwidth.

I know that I can solve this problem by putting the size limitation back into 
postfix but there is legitimate email that approaches that size without 
having large executable attachments (check our the barfs on a freeswan list).  

Do we just have to get used to the idea of trashing 10 emails for every 
legitimate one (as is often the case with snail mail)?  What will happen as 
more computer illiterates come online with their incompetent operating 
systems?  Perhaps the solution is to make everyone go back to communicating 
at 9,600bps?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 14:21:04 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:21:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080943.34175.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080823310.7470@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080915300.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <200310080943.34175.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081018420.27634@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Wednesday 08 October 2003 09:17, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > How would that be an advantage, given that the remote MTA will just try
> > again later?
>
> Ralph is talking about greylisting I believe. It is supposed to be very
> effective since many spammers, and viruses, do not actually retry their
> emails.  There's a whitepaper at http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/

Wow, this is *exactly* what I was thinking of (specifically looking at the
remote IP, MAIL FROM:, and RCPT TO:).  Thanks for the reference.

-Ralph
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 14:20:14 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:20:14 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C4@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

Very Interesting! I am going to have to try this out.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Doncaster [mailto:ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 10:21 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Anti spam solutions

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Wednesday 08 October 2003 09:17, Robert Brockway wrote:
> > How would that be an advantage, given that the remote MTA will just try
> > again later?
>
> Ralph is talking about greylisting I believe. It is supposed to be very
> effective since many spammers, and viruses, do not actually retry their
> emails.  There's a whitepaper at http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/

Wow, this is *exactly* what I was thinking of (specifically looking at the
remote IP, MAIL FROM:, and RCPT TO:).  Thanks for the reference.

-Ralph
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 14:40:40 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 10:40:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Wil McGilvery wrote:

> However; if I could have my way I would implement an opt-in email system
> similar to TMDA. I personally don't have an issue with registering with
> an email system to send email. I do that already with user lists. Other
> users in our company are not so sure. Of course if everyone used that
> kind of system, Spammers would probably find a way around it as well.

Probably.  I think the ultimate solution to spamming is economic warfare.
Spamming only continues because _someone_ is buying from them.

Educating people to understand that if you buy from a spammer they are
responsible for keeping the system going, as well as heavy fines for
spamming and we might see an impact.  I'll be the first to admit this is
difficult for a number of reasons:

1) An increasing number of spammers operate from jurisdictions that are
unwilling or unable to apply any pressure to them.

2) The profitiblity threshold of spamming is so low that even a tiny
minority the population buying from them can keep the system going.

Thr trick is not to reduce their profits to zero (since this is nigh on
impossible) but to reduce them to a point that the work involved in
continuing to spam makes it unviable.  This isn't a new idea but I suspect
it is an idea whos time is coming.  Could you imagine government sponsored
anti-spam commercials on TV educating new users about why not to buy the
products being advertised in this way.  Maybe I'm an optimist afterall :)

Rob


-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 16:13:29 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:13:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
In-Reply-To: <1065608323.16175.6.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065608323.16175.6.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310081212260.17233-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

yes, it is.  info at   http://cs.senecac.on.ca


On 8 Oct 2003, Kareem Shehata wrote:

> Can anyone confirm if this is happening today?  I really want to go, but
> I won't travel all the way to York campus if there's nothing happening.
> 
> Kareem
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2003-09-24 at 09:43, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> > -----Forwarded Message-----
> > From: John Selmys <j.selmys-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
> > To: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
> > Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bob Young, RedHat, 3pm, Oct. 8, Seneca College
> > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2003 07:45:12 -0400
> > 
> > At the moment his talk will center around trends in open source. We
> > suggested that since the audience will be primarily
> > students that perhaps some discussion on open source re education may be
> > useful. Anyway he's doing this for free so 
> > basically he'll decide.
> > 
> > If I find out more, I'll let you know.
> > 
> > John
> > ============= 
> > 
> > 
> > Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> > > Hi John,
> > > 
> > > Do you know what will be the topics of his talk?
> > > 
> > > Thank you,
> > > Lloyd
> > > 
> > > On Sun, 2003-09-21 at 00:20, Kareem Shehata wrote:
> > >   
> > > > Any idea what the topic of Bob's talk will be?
> > > > 
> > > > Kareem
> > > > 
> > > > On Fri, 2003-09-19 at 20:11, ln @post.com wrote:
> > > >     
> > > > > FYI - from the Seneca Linux club.
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Re: -------- Original Message --------
> > > > > Re: Subject: Chairman of the Board
> > > > > Re: Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 10:42:15 -0400
> > > > > Re: From: "John Selmys" <John.Selmys-U9NDqb625Q+nS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org>
> > > > > Re: To: linuxclub-OZwXound/Z1T00OpvrblD6dLQS1dU2Lr at public.gmane.org, isa <isa at titanic.senecac.on.ca>
> > > > > 
> > > > > Re: Greetings Linux Fans,
> > > > > 
> > > > > Re:     It is with great pleasure that I announce an open talk by Robert 
> > > > > Re: Young, Chairman of RedHat, will take place here at Seneca on Wednesday, 
> > > > > Re: Oct 8, 2003. This coup was arranged by Praveen Mitera, the coordinator 
> > > > > Re: of our post-diploma database program. My understanding is that the 
> > > > > Re: speech will take place in the upper kelidoscope room (S2168) in the SEQ 
> > > > > Re: building starting at 3pm. Everyone is welcome. Tell your friends. Bring 
> > > > > Re: your parents!
> > > > > 
> > > > > Re: John
> > > > > Re: ps: If there are Questions/Answers at the end then come prepared with 
> > > > > Re: your questions.
> > > > >  ===============================================================
> > > > >       
> > >   
> > -- 
> > Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 16:56:59 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 12:56:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080147020.16599-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080147020.16599@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031008165659.92345.qmail@web21004.mail.yahoo.com>


Spamprobe is pretty good, fast as it's written in 'C' -- It's running on my Debian system.
http://packages.debian.org/unstable/mail/spamprobe.html
 
Definitely better in my opinion than SpamAssasin.

"Chris F.A. Johnson" <c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 01:06:16AM -0400, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> > ^FROM:.*\ [a-z][a-z]
<snip>


Regards,
Stephen


---------------------------------
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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 17:22:42 2003
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:22:42 -0400
Subject: SCO visit
In-Reply-To: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>; from colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 12:17:30AM -0400
References: <005701c38d53$173ecee0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031008132242.G6783@leftmind.net>

Colin McGregor wrote:
> As for free stuff, besides a mediocre breakfast and a good lunch I did get
> the following:
> 
> - a T-Shirt that has to be read to be believed, in that it makes a series of
> statements all true or arguably true about Linux and leaves the impression
> that Linux is illegal, without actually saying so.

Can you quote those, or are they covered by SCO copyright?  ;-)

They may be infringing on intellectual property of the Ottawa Linux
Symposium here, as every year the OLS t-shirt has a quote about Linux on
the back; this year they broke with tradition by quoting SCO instead of
Microsoft.

>   - A SCO authentication program that will let me manage Windows
> 2000/Unix/Linux users from a Windows 2000 server.
> 
> One of the charities I deal with could use the last program, ...

You could run that under WINE, maybe?  I'm surprised they don't have the
thing built for a SCO server, but maybe they're afraid that someone would
run it under Drew's iBCS2.

Speaking of which, iBCS2 isn't in newer kernels, having fallen by the
wayside with the compiled-for-SCO stuff people used to run on it.
Maybe we could use this to prove that Linux has actually moved away,
not towards, their code?  ;-)

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 17:23:25 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:23:25 -0400
Subject: iptables: accepting SYN --> connection ESTABLISHED
Message-ID: <20031008172325.GA423@node1.opengeometry.net>

If I accept TCP initiation by accepting packet with SYN bit, ie.
    iptables ... --syn -j ACCEPT
does that mean that the connection is now considered established?

This would mean that I can match subsequent packets with something like
    iptables ... --state ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
right?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 17:31:02 2003
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:31:02 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031008095638.29009B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>; from henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org on Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 10:00:31AM -0400
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031008095638.29009B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20031008133102.H6783@leftmind.net>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> > [ SMTP size-limits to block M$ worms ]
> > ...Perhaps the solution is to make everyone go back to communicating 
> > at 9,600bps?
> 
> Instituting the death penalty for spamming might help. :-)

But what should we do with Windows users who don't defend their machines?

When the current worm-onslaught started, I observed a definite dip in the
amount of spam I get; either the spam was fighting the worm for bandwidth
and losing, or the spammers had gotten infected and were busy reinstalling
their machines instead of using them for evil.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 16:38:13 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:38:13 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

You are going to hate this but drm and a democratic router policy voting
system would fix this. The majority of users do not want spam, and they
can force their ISPs and everyone whom they *do* *buy* bandwidth from to
impose and maintain spam blocking rules. None of the major isps blocks
spam at the routing level now (they should imho). drm plays a role in
sender authentication (this prevents spoofing spam - all spam will come
from a name and address that exists). After a number of trials the routing
will become such that spam will cease to be a factor for the majority it
irritates, and then it will die out or remain a fringe phenomemnon that
can be neglected. Hosts that consistently relay mail will soon become
local networks and stay that way until they will comply with spam policy,
since no-one will route their packets and their users will be screaming
or voting with their feet.

All that is needed is for the major bandwidth providers to start
implementing filters (maybe they can reuse Carnivore technology ;-) and
graylists, instead of this being done at the user end, after the bandwidth
is consumed. I believe that this would cut down spam by 80% or more.

Peter
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 17:43:05 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:43:05 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 06:38:13PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> 
> You are going to hate this but drm and a democratic router policy voting
> system would fix this. The majority of users do not want spam, and they
> can force their ISPs and everyone whom they *do* *buy* bandwidth from to
> impose and maintain spam blocking rules. None of the major isps blocks
> spam at the routing level now (they should imho). drm plays a role in
> sender authentication (this prevents spoofing spam - all spam will come
> from a name and address that exists). After a number of trials the routing
> will become such that spam will cease to be a factor for the majority it
> irritates, and then it will die out or remain a fringe phenomemnon that
> can be neglected. Hosts that consistently relay mail will soon become
> local networks and stay that way until they will comply with spam policy,
> since no-one will route their packets and their users will be screaming
> or voting with their feet.
> 
> All that is needed is for the major bandwidth providers to start
> implementing filters (maybe they can reuse Carnivore technology ;-) and
> graylists, instead of this being done at the user end, after the bandwidth
> is consumed. I believe that this would cut down spam by 80% or more.

100% solution is to charge SENDER a fee, just like paper mail.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 17:46:03 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 13:46:03 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <009f01c38dc4$1a87a6f0$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>



> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 06:38:13PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> >
> > You are going to hate this but drm and a democratic router policy voting
> > system would fix this. The majority of users do not want spam, and they
> > can force their ISPs and everyone whom they *do* *buy* bandwidth from to
> > impose and maintain spam blocking rules. None of the major isps blocks
> > spam at the routing level now (they should imho). drm plays a role in
> > sender authentication (this prevents spoofing spam - all spam will come
> > from a name and address that exists). After a number of trials the
routing
> > will become such that spam will cease to be a factor for the majority it
> > irritates, and then it will die out or remain a fringe phenomemnon that
> > can be neglected. Hosts that consistently relay mail will soon become
> > local networks and stay that way until they will comply with spam
policy,
> > since no-one will route their packets and their users will be screaming
> > or voting with their feet.
> >
> > All that is needed is for the major bandwidth providers to start
> > implementing filters (maybe they can reuse Carnivore technology ;-) and
> > graylists, instead of this being done at the user end, after the
bandwidth
> > is consumed. I believe that this would cut down spam by 80% or more.
>
> 100% solution is to charge SENDER a fee, just like paper mail.
Not so sure about that. I get lots of paper span delivered every day too.
>
> --
> William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
> Linux solution for data management and processing.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 18:10:09 2003
From: dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:10:09 -0400
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
Message-ID: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

When I heard the news release yesterday, I thought.... it can't be the same 
Bob Young
It is! Very cool.
Dave

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From mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 18:04:10 2003
From: mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:04:10 -0400
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30-jEdB8FrtaVhwsnrjJ/NEvh6iiDvReHXdQD2kPI2Sjl0@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1065636250.1394.2228.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com>

On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 14:10, dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:

> When I heard the news release yesterday, I thought.... it can't be the
> same Bob Young
> It is! Very cool.

I wonder if there's a TLUG discount for season tickets.

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From awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 18:20:51 2003
From: awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org (Drew Hamilton)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:20:51 -0400
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
In-Reply-To: <1065636250.1394.2228.camel-hSSUUFrJ1eHKo1lsMQEj1AC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1065636250.1394.2228.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com>
Message-ID: <20031008182051.GA4010%awh@awh.org>

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 02:04:10PM -0400, Michael Hill wrote:
> I wonder if there's a TLUG discount for season tickets.

What?  You traitors!  What does the "T" in TLUG stand for?  You should
be coming out to the Argos games!

 - awh

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From mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 18:56:10 2003
From: mikehill-yqNZbDEBI9QAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Michael Hill)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:56:10 -0400
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
In-Reply-To: <20031008182051.GA4010%awh-z32R3RYGf1M@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <1065636250.1394.2228.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com>
	 <20031008182051.GA4010%awh@awh.org>
Message-ID: <1065639370.1394.2306.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com>

On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 14:20, Drew Hamilton wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 02:04:10PM -0400, Michael Hill wrote:
> > I wonder if there's a TLUG discount for season tickets.
> 
> What?  You traitors!  What does the "T" in TLUG stand for?  You should
> be coming out to the Argos games!

With two teams so close together geographically, the boundaries get a
little blurred.  As for me, I was born on the Ti-Cat side of Burloak.

Mike

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 19:16:28 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 15:16:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> You are going to hate this but drm and a democratic router policy voting
> system would fix this. The majority of users do not want spam, and they
> can force their ISPs and everyone whom they *do* *buy* bandwidth from to
> impose and maintain spam blocking rules. None of the major isps blocks
> spam at the routing level now (they should imho).

The resource requirements to implement it compared to regular IP routing
make such a plan completely impractical.

-Ralph

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 19:19:41 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:19:41 +0200 (IST)
Subject: thewml ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082118590.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


While looking for wml links I found this:

http://thewml.org/docs/docs/wml_intro.html

9 languages ? Why not typeset in Prolog ? Any opinions ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 19:30:04 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 21:30:04 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082123420.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> > You are going to hate this but drm and a democratic router policy voting
> > system would fix this. The majority of users do not want spam, and they
> > can force their ISPs and everyone whom they *do* *buy* bandwidth from to
> > impose and maintain spam blocking rules. None of the major isps blocks
> > spam at the routing level now (they should imho).
>
> The resource requirements to implement it compared to regular IP routing
> make such a plan completely impractical.

I thought it's easier to stem the flow at the bottleneck as opposed to
when it is raining down on everyone. I did not say it would be cheap or
easy. Someone has to pay for it too. Tax money probably, after enough
people get sufficiently upset about spam and viruses. Which they about are
now imho. I'd like to see what the US Congress comes up with wrt spam.

They are trying to do things about it now and they started being fought by
spammers, which means that they are making head of sorts, else the
spammers would not bother to sue them imho. I hope that they will make it
a federal felony to opt in someone into a list without his written
explicit consent (clicking OK on a webforum membership request won't do
- it would have to be a separate dedicated message with standard
pre-determined wording, and short i.e. "You hereby aggree to receive
promotional email from XXXX{a specific site or business} regarding
YYYY{a specific set of topics} by ZZZ{method: email, wap push, etc}
OK/NO" and there should be NO default option. I.e. the user will have to
deliberately select one then click OK).

Peter
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 20:21:18 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:21:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: iptables: accepting SYN --> connection ESTABLISHED
In-Reply-To: <20031008172325.GA423-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031008172325.GA423@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081619320.21727@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> If I accept TCP initiation by accepting packet with SYN bit, ie.
>     iptables ... --syn -j ACCEPT
> does that mean that the connection is now considered established?
>
> This would mean that I can match subsequent packets with something like
>     iptables ... --state ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
> right?

If you use ip_conntrack the state is taken care of for you (and you can
use the "--state" line above.  I would avoid accepting an arbitrary packet
with the TCP SYN bit set.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 20:22:33 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 16:22:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031008133102.H6783-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
 <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031008095638.29009B-100000@spsystems.net>
 <20031008133102.H6783@leftmind.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081621550.21727@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Anthony de Boer wrote:

> But what should we do with Windows users who don't defend their machines?
>
> When the current worm-onslaught started, I observed a definite dip in the
> amount of spam I get; either the spam was fighting the worm for bandwidth

I noticed this too.  The worm was easier for me to block too - so I've
actually been having an easier time of it lately :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 21:06:27 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:06:27 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082123420.1273-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082123420.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <200310081706.27864.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 08 October 2003 15:30, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > You are going to hate this but drm and a democratic router policy
> > > voting system would fix this. The majority of users do not want spam,
> > > and they can force their ISPs and everyone whom they *do* *buy*
> > > bandwidth from to impose and maintain spam blocking rules. None of the
> > > major isps blocks spam at the routing level now (they should imho).
> >
> > The resource requirements to implement it compared to regular IP routing
> > make such a plan completely impractical.
>
> I thought it's easier to stem the flow at the bottleneck as opposed to
> when it is raining down on everyone. I did not say it would be cheap or
> easy. Someone has to pay for it too. Tax money probably, after enough
> people get sufficiently upset about spam and viruses. Which they about are
> now imho. I'd like to see what the US Congress comes up with wrt spam.

Many ISPs are taking measures to stem the flow.  Symaptico for examples forces 
all users to relay mail through a Sympatico server.  This makes tracking 
spammers significantly easier for Sympatico.  Whether they actually act on 
such information, or monitor it, I cannot be sure, anyone?

Rogers seem less active in the fight.  They require authentication of smtp 
connections but don't stop their customers from relaying directly to anywhere 
else in the world.  This makes it virtually impossible for them to track who 
is sending spam., I can't imagine that logging all smtp traffic on a network 
the size of Rogers would be fun.

Rogers does seem to impose some limits on customers but it's at the expense of 
customers ...  a friend of mine was sending about 1,000 emails using some 
Windows app, Rogers shut him down.   The use was quite legitimate 
(communicating with club members, a club of which he is VP) ... he complained 
and they once again let him relay.

I don't know what the answer is, I just don't think I'd be comfortable with 
any ISP filtering email for me (unless I have 100% control over all the 
techniques used).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 21:07:36 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:07:36 +0200 (IST)
Subject: www.linux.org: gone ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082307020.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


I can't seem to raise this url. Gone ? Gone where ?

Peter


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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 21:25:39 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:25:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310081706.27864.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082123420.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <200310081706.27864.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081723050.27455@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Wednesday 08 October 2003 15:30, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > I thought it's easier to stem the flow at the bottleneck as opposed to
> > when it is raining down on everyone. I did not say it would be cheap or
> > easy. Someone has to pay for it too. Tax money probably, after enough
> > people get sufficiently upset about spam and viruses. Which they about are
> > now imho. I'd like to see what the US Congress comes up with wrt spam.
>
> Many ISPs are taking measures to stem the flow.  Symaptico for examples forces
> all users to relay mail through a Sympatico server.  This makes tracking
> spammers significantly easier for Sympatico.  Whether they actually act on
> such information, or monitor it, I cannot be sure, anyone?
>
> Rogers seem less active in the fight.  They require authentication of smtp
> connections but don't stop their customers from relaying directly to anywhere
> else in the world.  This makes it virtually impossible for them to track who
> is sending spam., I can't imagine that logging all smtp traffic on a network
> the size of Rogers would be fun.

When Sympatico blocked port 25 for their business customers, we got a
flood of new signups. ;-)
We don't block any ports and have minimal spam problems (one or 2 a week
at most).  Our current policy is to suspend a customer's account upon any
evidence of spam, and charge them a re-activation fee.  Second time we
terminate their service.

-Ralph

--
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 21:27:30 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:27:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: www.linux.org: gone ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082307020.1273-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082307020.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081725380.16599@xword.rogers.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> I can't seem to raise this url. Gone ? Gone where ?

     I have no problem with it.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
--
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 21:18:28 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 17:18:28 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081723050.27455-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159@ns.istop.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082123420.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	 <200310081706.27864.fraser@wehave.net>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081723050.27455@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <1065647907.6096.341.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 17:25, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

>   Our current policy is to suspend a customer's account upon any
> evidence of spam, and charge them a re-activation fee.  Second time we
> terminate their service.

LOL.  I know what you meant, but I had a chuckle reading it not as you
meant.  "That's right, nail those lusers that have ever received a spam
email!  How dare they have an 8 or less character user id or have ever
posted to USENET!"

--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 21:28:15 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:28:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080943.34175.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080823310.7470@ns.istop.com>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080915300.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
    <200310080943.34175.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <16471.216.138.194.32.1065648495.squirrel@www.beechtree-its.com>


<quote who="Fraser Campbell">
> Ralph is talking about greylisting I believe. It is supposed to be very
> effective since many spammers, and viruses, do not actually retry their
> emails.  There's a whitepaper at
> http://projects.puremagic.com/greylisting/

Looks very sweet and makes a lot of sense theoretically. Have you tried it
out in practice on a production system?

-- 
Keith
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 22:21:32 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:21:32 -0400
Subject: iptables: accepting SYN --> connection ESTABLISHED
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081619320.21727-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031008172325.GA423@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081619320.21727@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031008222132.GA306@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 04:21:18PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:
> 
> > If I accept TCP initiation by accepting packet with SYN bit, ie.
> >     iptables ... --syn -j ACCEPT
> > does that mean that the connection is now considered established?
> >
> > This would mean that I can match subsequent packets with something like
> >     iptables ... --state ESTABLISHED -j ACCEPT
> > right?
> 
> If you use ip_conntrack the state is taken care of for you (and you can
> use the "--state" line above.

'ipt_state' is the top level module for state stuffs, and 'modprobe'
takes care of dependency.  

> I would avoid accepting an arbitrary packet with the TCP SYN bit set.

Yes, I only do this for port 25.  I first accept SYN packet, but drop
all subsequent packets.  But, I also allow ESTABLISHED connections in
general.  So, having accepted SYN packet, the SMTP connection is now
established.  Hence, every mail comes through. :-(

That was my confusion.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct  8 22:25:30 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 18:25:30 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081621550.21727-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031008095638.29009B-100000@spsystems.net> <20031008133102.H6783@leftmind.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081621550.21727@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031008222530.GA404@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 04:22:33PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Anthony de Boer wrote:
> 
> > But what should we do with Windows users who don't defend their machines?
> >
> > When the current worm-onslaught started, I observed a definite dip in the
> > amount of spam I get; either the spam was fighting the worm for bandwidth
> 
> I noticed this too.  The worm was easier for me to block too - so I've
> actually been having an easier time of it lately :)

Me three.  This week, I had about 5 spams so far.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 00:17:18 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:17:18 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081723050.27455-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <200310081706.27864.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081723050.27455@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310082017.19023.fraser@wehave.net>

On Wednesday 08 October 2003 17:25, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> > Rogers seem less active in the fight.  They require authentication of
> > smtp connections but don't stop their customers from relaying directly to
> > anywhere else in the world.  This makes it virtually impossible for them
> > to track who is sending spam., I can't imagine that logging all smtp
> > traffic on a network the size of Rogers would be fun.
>
> When Sympatico blocked port 25 for their business customers, we got a
> flood of new signups. ;-)

I'd imagine.  Do they not distinguish between business and residential class 
services?  Is it still the case that they block smtp even for business 
connections?

> We don't block any ports and have minimal spam problems (one or 2 a week
> at most).  Our current policy is to suspend a customer's account upon any
> evidence of spam, and charge them a re-activation fee.  Second time we
> terminate their service.

That approach suits me fine as well.  Becoming your customer has been on my 
list for at least 6 months.  Maybe it's time I called again ;-)

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 00:20:06 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:20:06 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031009002006.GA10597@m450>

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 06:38:13PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote

> None of the major isps blocks spam at the routing level now (they
> should imho).

  I remember the firestorm on can.internet.highspeed when Ralph first
started filters on IStop.  Problem is one size does not fit all.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 02:20:00 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Sergey Semenyuk)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:20:00 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031009002006.GA10597-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009002006.GA10597@m450>
Message-ID: <000001c38e0b$d77b6ac0$0102a8c0@winxp>

ISP's are not quite allowed to decide what's spam and what's not unless
their systems are in danger, because, for instance, it can block the
stuff from my favorite porno site, and it will be the stuff I am paying
for. ;)


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of
waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org
Sent: Wednesday, October 08, 2003 8:20 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Anti spam solutions

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 06:38:13PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote

> None of the major isps blocks spam at the routing level now (they
> should imho).

  I remember the firestorm on can.internet.highspeed when Ralph first
started filters on IStop.  Problem is one size does not fit all.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 02:27:58 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:27:58 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080034.19218.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031009022758.GC10597@m450>

On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 12:34:19AM -0400, Fraser Campbell wrote

> I had nothing much to say or ask when I started writing this email but
> now that I've thought about it ... do any of you have any experience
> with commercial anti-spam solutions?

  I want to admin my spamblocks, but I don't want to have to admin an
MTA.  For $30 US per year, I got a personal account at clss.net in
Logansport, Indiana.  No dialup, I use ssh access instead.  They've
hacked up qmail so that it parses a config file in the user's home
directory ( http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=www.clss.net
indicates that clss.net is running on linux ) just after the RCPT
stage of the SMTP transaction, and rejects (550) where specified.  On
request, they'll accept email for your personal domain and forward it to
your clss.net account.  So I was ble to keep my waltdnes.org address...

host -t MX waltdnes.org
waltdnes.org mail is handled by 10 manson.clss.net.

  I can whitelist/block on...
  - IP address (or CIDR)
  - DNSbls like countries.nerd.dk, and Easynet, and Spamhaus, etc.
  - envelope sender (or final portion thereof)
  - rDNS (or final portion thereof)
  - bad rDNS
  - total lack of rDNS

  This has almost eliminated spam (virus is a different story).  Because
blocked email gets the big 550 just after RCPT, I'm not contributing to
the proxy-mailbombing of innocent 3rd-parties whose addresses have been
forged as "From:" or envelope-sender.  You're allowed 10 accounts, each
of which can have it's own filter, or you can symlink filter-rulesets
for several accounts (yes, you can get a shell prompt).  For newbies and
windows users, there's a text-menu-driven system.  I prefer to get my
hands dirty and ssh in and edit the ruleset with vim.  You can append
your own messages to the 550.  For most of my rejects, I put in a
pointer to a web page that lists my current unfiltered address.  This is
a nice safety feature.  The main disadvantage is that I only get logs
once a month.

  Speaking of which, September's logs show over 2400 rejects.  Since I
normally get 250-to-300 spam attempts blocked per month, I assume that
2100+ were viruses.  An additional 1200 viruses got through in the last
2 weeks of September, but simple procmail filters sent the vast majority
of them to my spam folder.

  Because end-users set their own blocks, CLSS doesn't unilaterally
block, unless things get to the DOS attack stage.  I had my mailbox
(10 megs) overflow in the early stages of the swen fiasco.  I set up a
loop which got mutt to poll the POP server over an ssh-tunnel every
hour.  I then backed off to 2, 3, 6 hours as the flow decreased.  I had
to put the loop in its own tty.  If anybody has figured out how to
properly run, from cron, a script that calls ssh and mutt, I'd be very
interested in hearing.

  Oh, forgot to mention, I'm *NOT* getting paid by clss.net for this
"unsolicited testimonial" <g>.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 02:28:03 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 22:28:03 -0400
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
Message-ID: <Law14-F112Pnk5Q6sGI00010aef@hotmail.com>

>From: Drew Hamilton <awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
>Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:20:51 -0400
>
>On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 02:04:10PM -0400, Michael Hill wrote:
> > I wonder if there's a TLUG discount for season tickets.
>
>What?  You traitors!  What does the "T" in TLUG stand for?  You should
>be coming out to the Argos games!

I can't believe someone named "Hamilton" is NOT a Ti-Cats fan!!

:)

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*   
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

--
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 03:16:43 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 23:16:43 -0400
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>	 <1065636250.1394.2228.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com>	 <20031008182051.GA4010%awh@awh.org> <1065639370.1394.2306.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com>
Message-ID: <3F84D31B.4000004@sympatico.ca>

Michael Hill wrote:

>On Wed, 2003-10-08 at 14:20, Drew Hamilton wrote:
>  
>
>>On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 02:04:10PM -0400, Michael Hill wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>I wonder if there's a TLUG discount for season tickets.
>>>      
>>>
>>What?  You traitors!  What does the "T" in TLUG stand for?  You should
>>be coming out to the Argos games!
>>    
>>
>
>With two teams so close together geographically, the boundaries get a
>little blurred.  As for me, I was born on the Ti-Cat side of Burloak.
>
>Mike
>  
>
I always knew, and now it's confirmed, that the Ti-Cats are the finest 
team in the CFL. There are few things sweeter than a victory over the 
Argos on Labour Day weekend. Unfortunately, something happened to  the 
"sweet" this year. Oh well,  there's always next year.


--
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 03:17:14 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 23:17:14 -0400
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072351260.14608-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper> <20031008011816.GA6053@m450> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310072351260.14608@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031009031714.GA10816@m450>

On Tue, Oct 07, 2003 at 11:54:54PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote

> Why not just make /home a seperate partition?  When it comes to
> upgrade time you can just umount that partition and make sure you
> don't blam it during the upgrade.  No need to mess around with
> symlinks then.

  This allows /home and various other data directories on the same
partition.  The more unnecessary partitions you have, the more
inneficient your space allocation can get.  / and /var  have reasons
to be separate.  The minimum number of partitions consistent with
proper operation is...

/
/var
swap
/misc <everything else>

  I won't get too picky about whether home physically resides on /misc,
or misc physically resides on /home.  What I am pushing is the
4-partition model above.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 04:17:36 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 00:17:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
In-Reply-To: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30-jEdB8FrtaVhwsnrjJ/NEvh6iiDvReHXdQD2kPI2Sjl0@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310090016240.18467-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I wanted him to tell us what his day to day activities were at redhat.  


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:

> When I heard the news release yesterday, I thought.... it can't be the same 
> Bob Young
> It is! Very cool.
> Dave
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:14:12 2003
From: shijialee-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (James)
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 22:14:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310090016240.18467-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310090016240.18467-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031009051412.53698.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I wanted him to tell us what his day to day activities were at redhat.  
> 

i was going to ask him that how programmers make a living out of open source. 

are you the guy sat in front asked the question : what's like working in high level IT environment
? or something like that...  

i came late and didn't catch much interesting idea. 



Qiang


> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> > When I heard the news release yesterday, I thought.... it can't be the same 
> > Bob Young
> > It is! Very cool.
> > Dave
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:26:13 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:26:13 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310081706.27864.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159@ns.istop.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082123420.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<200310081706.27864.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031009012613.417142e5.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 17:06:27 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Many ISPs are taking measures to stem the flow.  Symaptico for
> examples forces all users to relay mail through a Sympatico server. 
> This makes tracking spammers significantly easier for Sympatico. 
> Whether they actually act on such information, or monitor it, I cannot
> be sure, anyone?

They run all e-mail through something called "Brightmail", which seems
to identify spam pretty effectively, but it's put into a spam folder so
you still have to go through it to check for false positives anyway, so
what's the point. I would never want to trust my ISP to do my
spam-blocking anyway.

The major flaw with Stupatico right now is that the only way to
effectively use their service is to access your e-mail through IE, all
other browsers are locked out (ya, I know about spoofing, I should not
have to use a browser in the 1st place...).

I opted out and simply do my own spam filtering.
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The first requisite for immortality is death.
		-- Stanislaw Lem
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:31:19 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:31:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
In-Reply-To: <20031009051412.53698.qmail-n4ilzKb4UWqA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009051412.53698.qmail@web40205.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310090126550.18679-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

no, I never asked anything, and cetainly not a dum question like most of 
them were.  It would have been nice to hear some stories about the few 
short years he was there and saw a new type of company rise from nothing, 
right to the top. 


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, James wrote:

> 
> --- Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > I wanted him to tell us what his day to day activities were at redhat.  
> > 
> 
> i was going to ask him that how programmers make a living out of open source. 
> 
> are you the guy sat in front asked the question : what's like working in high level IT environment
> ? or something like that...  
> 
> i came late and didn't catch much interesting idea. 
> 
> 
> 
> Qiang
> 
> 
> > On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > 
> > > When I heard the news release yesterday, I thought.... it can't be the same 
> > > Bob Young
> > > It is! Very cool.
> > > Dave
> > > 
> > > --
> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > > 
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:53:02 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 01:53:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: iptables: accepting SYN --> connection ESTABLISHED
In-Reply-To: <20031008222132.GA306-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031008172325.GA423@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081619320.21727@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <20031008222132.GA306@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090151580.28970@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> > I would avoid accepting an arbitrary packet with the TCP SYN bit set.
>
> Yes, I only do this for port 25.  I first accept SYN packet, but drop
> all subsequent packets.  But, I also allow ESTABLISHED connections in
> general.  So, having accepted SYN packet, the SMTP connection is now
> established.  Hence, every mail comes through. :-(

Hi William.  You'd need to allow ACK through as well as SYN or the
connection would never get to the established state (where the ESTABLISHED
rule would take over).

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 06:12:06 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 02:12:06 -0400
Subject: iptables: accepting SYN --> connection ESTABLISHED
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090151580.28970-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031008172325.GA423@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081619320.21727@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <20031008222132.GA306@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090151580.28970@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031009061205.GA644@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 01:53:02AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:
> 
> > > I would avoid accepting an arbitrary packet with the TCP SYN bit set.
> >
> > Yes, I only do this for port 25.  I first accept SYN packet, but drop
> > all subsequent packets.  But, I also allow ESTABLISHED connections in
> > general.  So, having accepted SYN packet, the SMTP connection is now
> > established.  Hence, every mail comes through. :-(
> 
> Hi William.  You'd need to allow ACK through as well as SYN or the
> connection would never get to the established state (where the ESTABLISHED
> rule would take over).

Thanks Rob.  That seems to ring a bell somewhat. ;-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 06:57:32 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 02:57:32 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080147020.16599-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080048030.16599@xword.rogers.com>
	<20031008052158.GA1632@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080147020.16599@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031009025732.5d70a3c9.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:50:14 -0400 (EDT)
"Chris F.A. Johnson" <c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

>      That would probably take care of it in my script, too; the main
>      reason for not using procmail is to prevent having to download
>      multimegabytes every hour.
> 
>      Another program that delete at the source is mailfilter:
> 
>        <http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/>
> 
>      Unfortunately, it only reads the headers, and I found that the
>      most reliable block was in the top 10 to 20 lines of the body (as
>      also shown by your solution), so I wrote the script. The regex
>      files do need tuning.

I currently use Mailfilter to snag the obvious ones (it catches most of
the MS Patch types anyway, currently) and this with Procmail:

http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nikant/nkvir/

to filter out the rest.

Could your script be called by fetchmail the same way Mailfilter is *at
the same time*? or would I need to call it seperately, say as a cron job
or something?

This is the one feature I would like to see in MF, the ability to look
for attachments, but the developer seems pretty much dead against taking
it in that direction to keep it on the light side.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are no accidents whatsoever in the universe.
		-- Baba Ram Dass
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 09:48:39 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 05:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: iptables: accepting SYN --> connection ESTABLISHED
In-Reply-To: <20031009061205.GA644-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031008172325.GA423@node1.opengeometry.net>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081619320.21727@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
    <20031008222132.GA306@node1.opengeometry.net>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090151580.28970@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
    <20031009061205.GA644@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <17534.216.138.194.32.1065692919.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="William Park">
 On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 01:53:02AM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:
>
> > > I would avoid accepting an arbitrary packet with the TCP SYN bit
> set.
> >
> > Yes, I only do this for port 25.  I first accept SYN packet, but drop
> > all subsequent packets.  But, I also allow ESTABLISHED connections in
> > general.  So, having accepted SYN packet, the SMTP connection is now
> > established.  Hence, every mail comes through. :-(
>
> Hi William.  You'd need to allow ACK through as well as SYN or the
> connection would never get to the established state (where the
> ESTABLISHED
> rule would take over).

Ack with the Syn flag set maybe? Prevents those sneaky probes...

-- 
Keith
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 12:52:35 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:52:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031009002006.GA10597-Mb8sf/rG248@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031009002006.GA10597@m450>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090851060.29222@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 06:38:13PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote
>
> > None of the major isps blocks spam at the routing level now (they
> > should imho).
>
>   I remember the firestorm on can.internet.highspeed when Ralph first
> started filters on IStop.  Problem is one size does not fit all.

No, it was when someone first started complaining about the filters.  We
first setup RBLs over 3 years ago...

-Ralph
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 12:55:12 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 08:55:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310082017.19023.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <200310081706.27864.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081723050.27455@ns.istop.com>
 <200310082017.19023.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090853480.29222@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Wednesday 08 October 2003 17:25, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> > When Sympatico blocked port 25 for their business customers, we got a
> > flood of new signups. ;-)
>
> I'd imagine.  Do they not distinguish between business and residential class
> services?  Is it still the case that they block smtp even for business
> connections?

They had been blocking 25 for res long before they did it for business.
Now only their 3M non-PPPoE business service has no port blocking.

-Ralph

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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 13:43:12 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:43:12 -0400
Subject: Hylafax and Fax modem card on an ADSL line...
Message-ID: <01cb01c38e6b$4ada6f20$0200a8c0@viper>

A fax/modem card on an ADSL line...is that within the realm of possibility?
I was thinking of using Hylafax....










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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 13:45:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:45:09 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
Message-ID: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>


The recent report by the CCIA gave us an academic viewpoint as to why
Windows is a blight on the Internet.

This article provides a concrete example as to why Windows machines
should be disconnected from the Internet, quarantined, and otherwise
shut out, wherever possible, until MS decides to take responsibility for
this outrageous lack of security.

http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60747,00.html

Quote:

"According to Tubul, his group controls 450,000 "Trojaned" systems, most
of them home computers running Windows with high-speed connections. The
hacked systems contain special software developed by the Polish group
that routes traffic between Internet users and customers' websites
through thousands of the hijacked computers."

I sent an e-mail to the CBC, pointing out several recent stories
involving Microsoft and it's links to internet insecurity, including the
now famous CCIA report. I am hoping that if they get a few more mails on
the subject they will feel it worthwhile to do a story on Microsoft and
it's perceived liability in these matters.

This is really getting out of control, and people need to know that the
software they are using is harmful and dangerous, so please take some
time and do some writing, even if it is just a brief note.

Thanks.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A priest advised Voltaire on his death bed to renounce the devil. 
Replied Voltaire, "This is no time to make new enemies."
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 14:13:27 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:13:27 -0400
Subject: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
In-Reply-To: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <010301c38d26$490a20a0$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <20031009101327.1257de42.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Tue, 7 Oct 2003 18:56:41 -0400
"Teddy Mills" <teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I have a PII computer, and does not recognize an 80GB drive from the BIOS.
> It is running RH9. I booted into RH9, and I suspect since I do not have
> proper BIOS support,
> that RH9 also cannot access the drive properly.
> 
> Any ideas on getting this to work in RH9?
> Maybe adding a PCI IDE controller card?

Teddy,

   Get a Promise card.  This is how I got my PII/350 to recognize by 40GB hard drive.

   Do not toss your old drive.  It is a good backup device.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 14:37:15 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:37:15 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
Message-ID: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>

>From: Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
>Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 22:23:12 -0400
>
>Can you please explain this vision of 'abundant currency' in political and 
>economical terms? (seriously)
>
>Be sure to read Peter's reply first please.

OK, I read Peter's email. First, by "abundant" currency, I do not mean the 
kind of hyperinflated currency that ruined the Weimar republic and perhaps 
contributed to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany between the wars. That 
kind of hyperinflation is caused by printing more and more money which 
remains backed by the still limited productive capacity of the economy. 
Finite economic capacity divided by (approaching) infinite currency units 
equals valueless money, or hyperinflation. That doesn't work.

Today we have a new class of economic product; digital/virtual products 
whose marginal cost (approaches) zero, and that can be reproduced and 
distributed ad infinitem (and is therefore fundamentally abundant). 
Software, MP3s (for example), even information and knowledge itself fall 
into that category in the Internet age. As more and more of the overall 
economic activity is comprised of these abundant economic products, we have 
the opportunity to match production of these products exactly to 
demand--without the need for "rationing" by raising prices until the demand 
and supply curves meet.

Before I get to how this can apply specifically to the open-source movement, 
here's the broad vision of how this would work overall politically and 
economically. (This may raise more questions than answers. If there was 
sufficient interest, I'd enjoy presenting this at a TLUG gathering).

A better way to maintain currency stability (minimize the threat of either 
inflation or deflation) is to decentralize it away from the nation-state 
(that's real monopoly money--money managed by a government or central bank 
monopoly) and into the hands of those who have the actual capacity to 
produce goods and/or services and/or knowledge that is of real value to 
people. When this occurs, new currencies are backed by the productive 
capacity of their managing organizations, and currency values can fluctuate 
freely relative to one another in a free market currency exchange system. In 
other words, companies and organizations can establish and maintain their 
own currencies, allowing them to self-capitalize (and removing the threat of 
undercapitalization or cannibalization due to externally created money 
scarcity). Organizations who make wise economic decisions and 
self-investments will see their currencies rise relative to other 
currencies, while the reverse is also true. Thus, the free market will 
provide incentive to make good decisions. Plus, the problems inherent in the 
monoculture of nation-state currencies (inflation, deflation, and the 
vulnerability of productive organizations to suffer from bad economic 
management at the hands of government and banks) will disappear.

BTW: In the Internet age, "organizations" can be very decentralized and 
truly virtual. I like the non-hierarchical icosohedron form of organization 
proposed by Stafford Beer designed to optimize information flow among its 
participants.

With respect to open source, I believe some of these ideas can be applied to 
overcome some of the problems that open source companies and developers are 
dealing with. Like, does RedHat even have a viable business model yet? The 
IPO isn't a business model, it's just a short term cash injection and they 
got lucky (good thing for the Ti-Cats). Bruce Perens certainly didn't have 
any good ideas for open source business models, other than to suggest that 
it could "reduce costs" within a company's regular business model--but we 
already knew that.

The impetus for the GPL came from the right idea that information should be 
free, and that everyone will be better off if the fruits of knowledge (in 
this case, code) should also be free and free to build upon. Using a new kid 
of "abundant" currency, copyright holders, artists, inventors, and 
distributors would be rewarded for their creation and contribution, and 
information could be ??free?? in the sense that it would be universally 
available and universally affordable. Isn??t that really what we mean by 
??free?? anyway?

An "abundant" currency is one where, on the personal level, an account 
balance of zero is not an impediment to spending. The account holder can 
continue to spend and reduce his balance into the negative. The negative 
balance need not be paid for with "interest", but is in fact backed by his 
or her own capacity to create value within the context of the larger 
organization which is responsible for managing that particular currency.

Does that clear thing up?

:)



-Hugh
_______________________________________________
Hugh Reilly
XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab
600 Bay Street, Suite 405
Toronto ON  M5R 1G6
tel: 416-204-9951
fax: 416-204-9723
email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
_______________________________________________
http://www.xen.ca  |  http://www.linuxlab.ca

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 14:54:04 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 10:54:04 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031009105404.101f65e8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:37:15 -0400
"Hugh Reilly" <hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> An "abundant" currency is one where, on the personal level, an account
> 
> balance of zero is not an impediment to spending. The account holder
> can continue to spend and reduce his balance into the negative. The
> negative balance need not be paid for with "interest", but is in fact
> backed by his or her own capacity to create value within the context
> of the larger organization which is responsible for managing that
> particular currency.
> 
> Does that clear thing up?

This almost sounds like the concept of "negative interest" currency
which I read about, IIRC, in The Illuminatus Trilogy or Schrodinger's
Cat (Robert Anton Wilson), that is currency that actually loses value
the longer one holds on to it, so that the incentive is not to hoard or
accumulate (ie. form monopolies, trusts, etc.) but to constantly develop
and decentralize so as to keep the *flow* of capital (in this case
information) moving, and thereby enrich oneself.

I like your linkage of the GPL with socio-economic models, it is one
that I think deserves more attention than it is getting currently. I
firmly believe that the Free Software model (free as in speech, yadda
yadda) is one that can be easily applied in many more areas than just
software, and if I may, *must* be applied if the Information Age is to
be what it has the potential to be.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
For your penance, say five Hail Marys and one loud BLAH!
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 14:52:25 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:52:25 -0400
Subject: You credit card has been charged for $234.65
In-Reply-To: <8663886418.28215791267311-V/xT5n/hG3r10XsdtD+oqA@public.gmane.org>
References: <8663886418.28215791267311@0-0-7.co.uk>
Message-ID: <1065711145.6094.687.camel@localhost>

Variations on this is one of my favorites *groan* -- they cannot even
think up a plausible scenario.

On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 14:11, DarkProfits.com wrote:
> 
>                            Important notice
> We have just charged your credit card for money laundry service in
> amount of $234.65 (because you are either child pornography webmaster
> or deal with dirty money, which require us to layndry them and then
> send to your checking account). 
> If you feel this transaction was made by our mistake, please press
> "No".
> If you confirm this transaction, please press "Yes" and fill in the
> form below.
> 
>                  Enter your credit card number here:
> 
> 
>                Enter your credit card expiration date:
> 
> 
> 

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 15:49:10 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 11:49:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310080943.34175.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080823310.7470@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080915300.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <200310080943.34175.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310091148150.27089@ns.istop.com>

It seems LWN long ago quantified my feeling that SpamAssassin is a
resource pig.
http://lwn.net/Articles/9185/

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 16:10:55 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:10:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Hylafax and Fax modem card on an ADSL line...
In-Reply-To: <01cb01c38e6b$4ada6f20$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <01cb01c38e6b$4ada6f20$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310091210290.19990-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I don;t see why not, DSL doesnt use the voice channel.  


On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Teddy Mills wrote:

> A fax/modem card on an ADSL line...is that within the realm of possibility?
> I was thinking of using Hylafax....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 16:40:02 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 12:40:02 -0400
Subject: Hylafax and Fax modem card on an ADSL line...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310091210290.19990-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310091210290.19990-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200310091240.02540.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

I have had that configuration in place at many sites for some time with no 
difficulty.  Often business clients have a fax line that bypasses their 
telephone switch and provides the best available link for ADSL.   Usually I 
have also put in place a fax modem leading to hylafax, but adsl will co-exist 
with a fax machine just as well.   

Charly Baker

On Thursday 09 October 2003 12:10 pm, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> I don;t see why not, DSL doesnt use the voice channel.
>
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, Teddy Mills wrote:
> > A fax/modem card on an ADSL line...is that within the realm of
> > possibility? I was thinking of using Hylafax....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:13:32 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:13:32 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031008174305.GA496-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090712590.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> 100% solution is to charge SENDER a fee, just like paper mail.

That could work. Especially if there would be a charge per recipient, as
is with paper mail.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:14:26 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:14:26 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <009f01c38dc4$1a87a6f0$0200a8c0-bDyVNySQBNH9aAI3MaG8BQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <009f01c38dc4$1a87a6f0$0200a8c0@jimslaptop>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090713460.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Jim Ruxton wrote:

> > 100% solution is to charge SENDER a fee, just like paper mail.
> Not so sure about that. I get lots of paper span delivered every day too.

But it olny clogs your (presumably less used) paper mailbox and can serve
as fire kindling.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:22:45 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:22:45 +0200 (IST)
Subject: www.linux.org: gone ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081725380.16599-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082307020.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081725380.16599@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090722140.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> > I can't seem to raise this url. Gone ? Gone where ?
>
>      I have no problem with it.

Hmm, thought so. I could not rise it yesterday evening for several hours.
I will see what is wrong here.

thanks,

Peter
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:22:04 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:22:04 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310081706.27864.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081513240.31159@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310082123420.1273@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <200310081706.27864.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090720120.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> I don't know what the answer is, I just don't think I'd be comfortable with
> any ISP filtering email for me (unless I have 100% control over all the
> techniques used).

I believe that this should work by rule and exception. 85% of users needs
to be on the default plan, with ISP based filtering and no headaches.
Axxent seems to have this (know from relatives). 15% either belong in
jail or have a need for a special kind of account that permits full
access. In theory a full access account should be cheaper than a filtered
one but ...

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 05:15:31 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 07:15:31 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <000001c38e0b$d77b6ac0$0102a8c0-kSN9fd7a3UY@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c38e0b$d77b6ac0$0102a8c0@winxp>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090714530.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 8 Oct 2003, Sergey Semenyuk wrote:

> ISP's are not quite allowed to decide what's spam and what's not unless
> their systems are in danger, because, for instance, it can block the
> stuff from my favorite porno site, and it will be the stuff I am paying
> for. ;)

So you need to but a special account that accomodates for your special
needs.

Peter
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 18:37:50 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:37:50 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090712590.614-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090712590.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 07:13:32AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> That could work. Especially if there would be a charge per recipient, as
> is with paper mail.

And how would you implement this?  What if I connect to your mailserver
with my little program and try to send you a message?  How do you expect
to charge me for sending it?  Who charges this fee?  An ISP?  The
recipient?  Who gets the money?

Lennart Sorensen
--
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 18:45:29 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:45:29 -0400
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
Message-ID: <200310091445.29466.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

I'm pretty sure ssomeone recently posted a link to an article on Linux vs. 
Windows viruses and why Linux is more resistant to these viruses.  Here is an 
interesting rebuttal:

    http://www.PivX.com/larholm/articles/Linux_vs._Windows_Viruses.doc

I do believe that Linux is more secure, I do believe that Linux is more 
securable but there are some valid points on both sides of the argument.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 19:02:01 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:02:01 -0400
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
In-Reply-To: <200310091445.29466.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310091445.29466.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310091502.01518.fraser@wehave.net>

Searching for unpatched IE vulnerabilities is pretty impressive:

  http://security.itworld.com/4345/030929iehole/page_1.html

This link may be a mirror of the one at PivX.com that is "under service 
review" ... might not be as well but it still looks intriguing:

  http://www.spiceisle.com/nordpat/IEexploits.htm
  
On Thursday 09 October 2003 14:45, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm pretty sure ssomeone recently posted a link to an article on Linux vs.
> Windows viruses and why Linux is more resistant to these viruses.  Here is
> an interesting rebuttal:
>
>     http://www.PivX.com/larholm/articles/Linux_vs._Windows_Viruses.doc
>
> I do believe that Linux is more secure, I do believe that Linux is more
> securable but there are some valid points on both sides of the argument.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 18:59:57 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 14:59:57 -0400
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92E0@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

Garbage in = Garbage out.

Any system is insecure unless properly maintained.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Fraser Campbell [mailto:fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 2:45 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Linux versus Windows viruses

Hi,

I'm pretty sure ssomeone recently posted a link to an article on Linux vs. 
Windows viruses and why Linux is more resistant to these viruses.  Here is an 
interesting rebuttal:

    http://www.PivX.com/larholm/articles/Linux_vs._Windows_Viruses.doc

I do believe that Linux is more secure, I do believe that Linux is more 
securable but there are some valid points on both sides of the argument.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 19:06:33 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:06:33 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031009183750.GA9258-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090712590.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 02:37:50PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 07:13:32AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > That could work. Especially if there would be a charge per recipient, as
> > is with paper mail.
> 
> And how would you implement this?  What if I connect to your mailserver
> with my little program and try to send you a message?  How do you expect
> to charge me for sending it?  Who charges this fee?  An ISP?  The
> recipient?  Who gets the money?

You pay your ISP, just like you're doing now.  Your ISP pays their ISP
(ie. Bell).  Even if you connect directly to recipient's machine, you
still have to go through your ISP, through telecom backbone, and then
through recipient's ISP.  They'll love it.  They'll charge you money,
and blame the "government" for making them do it.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 19:08:28 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 15:08:28 -0400
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
In-Reply-To: <200310091445.29466.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310091445.29466.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <1065726508.29711.28.camel@ldbudd.torolab.ibm.com>

On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 14:45, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm pretty sure ssomeone recently posted a link to an article on Linux vs. 
> Windows viruses and why Linux is more resistant to these viruses.  Here is an 
> interesting rebuttal:
> 
>     http://www.PivX.com/larholm/articles/Linux_vs._Windows_Viruses.doc
>
> I do believe that Linux is more secure, I do believe that Linux is 
> more securable but there are some valid points on both sides of the
> argument.
There may be some valid points, but they do not seem to be presented in
this article.  This article is actually fairly hideous, and there is noy
way that the author is knowledgeable about Linux -- or maybe he is
choosing to conceal his knowledge.

For those that are interested here is a direct copy of that doc.  There
is no formatting in that doc other than the title being bold.


--------------------------------

                       Linux vs. Windows Viruses

The debate over which Operating System is the most secure is an age-old
debate, which is filled with a vigor and passion similar to those
debating their religious beliefs.  However, in the end it all boils down
to reliable management, adherence to policies and procedures and proper
use. 

In the article "Linux vs. Windows Viruses" by Scott Granneman, his bias
is very clear - Scott feels that "Linux is more secure, end of story!"
That unwritten (although easily discernable) statement is unsupportable
though, given the technical inaccuracies and incorrect statements the
article puts forth.  I would like to take the opportunity to correct
some of his facts . . . err assertions.

Linux as a desktop system faces the exact same issues of worms and
viruses, social engineering and poor design as any system, Microsoft
included.  In fact, I would say that the vast complexity of current
Linux distributions contribute more to the insecurity of an average
desktop user than does the well-defined API of Windows.  There may not
have been as many email viruses that attacked Linux, but let's look at
worms and targeted attacks instead.  To quote Peter S. Tippet in a
recent discussion about this (hope you don't mind Peter), "there have
been more detected worms and attacks on Linux last year than on Windows
- by a factor of more than 2 or 3!"  Now that's an indisputable fact
that should pour some water on Scott Granneman's fire.

Before you start reading ahead, I suggest that you first read the
article in question, which can be found at
http://www.securityfocus.com/columnists/188, and then come back.

First, let's look at the article and some technical misconceptions,
chronologically.

With regard to opening attachments, it is my firm belief that end users
would do so even on Linux systems, if Linux desktop systems ever gained
a noticeable user-base.  In a lot of mail software you just have to save
the file to disk first, in others you have the option to open it
directly - either way, once the virus writer's social engineering has
worked, the rest is details.

Social engineering is no harder on Linux than it is on Windows.  That
much is apparent to most when you consider a scenario of even moderate
Linux desktop reach.

One of the sticky misconceptions about Outlook is that it enables an
email writer to automatically have his executable attachment opened.
That much may be true if you haven't applied any patches for years.  The
possibility of using vulnerabilities in emails to automatically execute
attachments is somehow declared in the article to be restricted for
Windows solely, based on the presence of 5 patches over the last 5
years.  Did anyone bother to look at the number of patches that are
released for Linux browsers and email clients each year?  (More on this
later)

For years, most kinds of email attachments have been automatically
blocked from the user in any default installation of the most popular
Windows mail clients, yet the article claims that this protection can be
easily overridden.  To prove this, it links to a document that explains
how an administrator can disable this feature by changing registry
entries - the equivalent to stating that most Linux file-systems are
insecure because the administrator can change the user's execution
rights.

To very briefly cover executables, there is more involved in determining
the datatype of a file than merely looking at an extension.  Like many
*nix systems, Explorer also relies on the "magic filetype" feature,
scanning the first 256 bytes of the file and comparing it to a database
of fingerprints.

Another popular misconception is that Open-Source projects are
inherently more secure. Granneman repeats this mantra by stating:

"Fortunately, both Mozilla and the KDE Project have excellent records
when it comes to security."

I still remember when Mozilla went from version 1.0 to version 1.0.1, a
very minor version change but it nonetheless fixed 23 separate security
vulnerabilities in the browser and mail client
(http://msgs.securepoint.com/cgi-bin/get/bugtraq0209/162.html ) that
went largely unannounced - and that was just a minor revision.  Last I
checked, Mozilla has had several hundreds, if not more than 1000,
identified security vulnerabilities.  It's hard to tell the precise
number since Bugzilla has such a lousy search interface, but it is
definitely greater by more than a factor of 5 compared to IE (I should
know those numbers).  Mozilla does not have an excellent record when it
comes to security, it just has an excellent record in not being targeted
- and understandably: why bother targeting a browser hardly anybody
uses?  Given that AOL even removed their support of the development
efforts and killed its ommercial offspring, the Netscape browser, I find
it hard to see that situation changing.

It's the same reasoning that makes virus writers rely on having
end-users manually open the attachment, instead of exploiting an
unpatched vulnerability to have it automatically execute - since relying
on the end-user works 98% of the time, why bother so much with the last
few percent ?

The claim that email-clients on Microsoft systems are a monoculture is
quite flawed when you look at the vast selection of clients available on
any Microsoft system, not that different from the offering on Linux.  A
lot of the Linux mail clients are even available in Microsoft flavors.
The fact that Microsoft's own pre-supplied email clients predominate the
Windows landscape should come as no surprise, not as much because it is
Microsoft but because it is pre-supplied as part of the install.  If we
had a comparable amount of Linux desktop users to survey (not the
knowledgeable administrator reading this article who knows how to
compile his own programs), I am pretty sure that we would see the same
picture - most people using the same base set of factory-boxed software,
including browsers and email clients. 

We can already recognize that trend among current Linux distributions,
with a lot of users staying by the factory-supplied Mozilla Mail and
KMail.  Both of these render HTML mails by using their respective
browser engines, a practice which is increasingly discouraged even on
Windows mail clients where it can be disabled, and often is by default,
these days.  We already covered whether Mozilla's HTML engine is more
secure than the IE HTML engine; suffice to say that relying on it to
avoid viruses is mere security through obscurity.

Every OSS supporter claims that the Open-Source community is faster at
patching vulnerabilities.  Sure, they might update the source in the CVS
15 minutes after receiving a report, but how long will it take for that
updated code to actually reach supported applications?  Administrators
and users are wary of updating to the latest unstable beta build, and
for good reasons.  In the case of Mozilla/Netscape, updated code in the
CVS typically took a month, often 2 or 3, to go from nightly/unstable
builds and reach the actually supported product - not much unlike the
timeframe for IE patches.

There is a good reason for the time delay that supported products
enforce, namely quality assurance and regression testing.  In the recent
case of OpenSSH, a vulnerability was discussed on a public mailing list
and within hours OpenSSH 3.7 was released.  Hooray, I hear the many OSS
supporters exclaim, what a quick fix!  Later that day, OpenSSH 3.7.1 was
released to fix a related vulnerability.  By looking at the public CVS
it turns out that not 5 minutes after the changes for 3.7 had been
committed to CVS, another set of changes were committed and not 10
minutes later more was changed, which in the end was bundled and
released as 3.7.1 on that same day - so much for thorough testing.

Another common misconception is that only Windows users use their OS
from their administrator account.  As we have already seen with Lindows,
and as we will see increasingly in the future, end-users are not
knowledgeable enough to know that certain functions of their OS should
be restricted from their reach.  They will want the administrator right,
they want to add and remove programs at will, they want to add new
hardware and have its drivers automatically installed - on a desktop
system, application anarchy is the rule as opposed to the rigid
locked-down feature-set of corporate Linux desktop rollouts.

Even when a Linux desktop system is properly configured with restricted
accounts, there are simply so many local root exploits to pick between
that the point becomes moot.  Does anybody really expect that a desktop
user would be able to more timely apply patches against those local root
vulnerabilities on a Linux desktop system than on a Windows desktop
system?  A lot of desktop users are confused as it is when they
encounter WindowsUpdate, how should we expect them to download files
from ftp mirrors, verify the m5 checksum (you do that on every file,
right?) and compile the updated source code?  The solutions we are
currently seeing such as the semi-automated software update from Red Hat
require subscription, and are increasingly relying on having a specified
set of applications installed on the user's desktop - the very
monoculture which Microsoft is criticized of practicing is working here
in favor of that patch automation process.

To sum it all up, both Windows and Linux desktop systems face the same
security threats, same lack of updates and the same presence of
end-users wanting to see the latest Maria Sharapova pictures and hear
the latest Viking Kittens MP3.  Any initial advantages in security that
Linux desktops may have through a different design are quickly
outweighed by the sheer complexity in maintaining that design.  It is
striking to see that the user/attack ratio is so much higher on Linux,
and unless the large distributions improve and simplify their desktops
in key areas I doubt we will see much of a secure desktop market on
Linux. 

As Scott Granneman puts it, security is not a product, but a process.

--
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From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 21:10:03 2003
From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:10:03 -0400
Subject: You credit card has been charged for $234.65
In-Reply-To: <1065711145.6094.687.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1065711145.6094.687.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCIELACFAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>

Unfortunately many people fall for this.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of Lloyd D
Budd
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 10:52
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Re: You credit card has been charged for $234.65


Variations on this is one of my favorites *groan* -- they cannot even
think up a plausible scenario.

On Thu, 2003-10-09 at 14:11, DarkProfits.com wrote:
>
>                            Important notice
> We have just charged your credit card for money laundry service in
> amount of $234.65 (because you are either child pornography webmaster
> or deal with dirty money, which require us to layndry them and then
> send to your checking account).
> If you feel this transaction was made by our mistake, please press
> "No".
> If you confirm this transaction, please press "Yes" and fill in the
> form below.
>
>                  Enter your credit card number here:
>
>
>                Enter your credit card expiration date:
>
>
>

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 21:29:05 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:29:05 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031009190633.GA1104-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>

On Thursday 09 October 2003 3:06 pm, William Park wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 02:37:50PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 07:13:32AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > That could work. Especially if there would be a charge per recipient,
> > > as is with paper mail.
> >
> > And how would you implement this?  What if I connect to your mailserver
> > with my little program and try to send you a message?  How do you expect
> > to charge me for sending it?  Who charges this fee?  An ISP?  The
> > recipient?  Who gets the money?
>
> You pay your ISP, just like you're doing now.  Your ISP pays their ISP
> (ie. Bell).  Even if you connect directly to recipient's machine, you
> still have to go through your ISP, through telecom backbone, and then
> through recipient's ISP.  They'll love it.  They'll charge you money,
> and blame the "government" for making them do it.

And the spammers will carry on exactly as they now do, totally unaffected by 
this nonsense.

Charly Baker
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 22:07:39 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 18:07:39 -0400
Subject: Bob Young and Ti-Cats
In-Reply-To: <20031008182051.GA4010%awh-z32R3RYGf1M@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.1.1.6.1.20031008140745.009e7c30@pop.ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <1065636250.1394.2228.camel@dilbert.hgeng.com> <20031008182051.GA4010%awh@awh.org>
Message-ID: <3F85DC2B.30201@rogers.com>

Drew Hamilton wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 08, 2003 at 02:04:10PM -0400, Michael Hill wrote:
> 
>>I wonder if there's a TLUG discount for season tickets.
> 
> 
> What?  You traitors!  What does the "T" in TLUG stand for?  You should
> be coming out to the Argos games!

Didn't Darl McBride buy them?  ;-)


--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 22:10:09 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:10:09 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <200310091729.05518.cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft> <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net> <200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
Message-ID: <20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 05:29:05PM -0400, Charly Baker wrote:
> And the spammers will carry on exactly as they now do, totally unaffected by 
> this nonsense.

Difference is that they'll be paying for what they are doing.  I don't
mind that.  If you have the money, please go ahead and support your
local ISP.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 21:54:25 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:54:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
In-Reply-To: <200310091445.29466.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310091445.29466.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <18340.216.138.194.32.1065736465.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Fraser Campbell">
> Hi,
>
> I'm pretty sure ssomeone recently posted a link to an article on Linux
> vs. Windows viruses and why Linux is more resistant to these viruses.
> Here is an interesting rebuttal:
>
>  http://www.PivX.com/larholm/articles/Linux_vs._Windows_Viruses.doc
>
> I do believe that Linux is more secure, I do believe that Linux is more
> securable but there are some valid points on both sides of the argument.

I pretty much stopped reading after he quoted some peter guy who said
there's been more worms and trojans by 3 to 1 against linux than against
windows. No reference, just "my buddy said... so it's true". Well, I gotta
buddy right here who says his buddy is a moron. :) I also noticed that
he's got an agenda with quite a bit at stake, so he's pretty much gotta
say something.

I've seen some pretty secure windoh$s machines, and some pretty insecure
linux ones. I think we all have.

Maybe we should challenge the guy to a showdown at the OK corral. We each
start with a bare metal box and a pristine cd of our chosen OS and an
unguarded, unfiltered connection direct to the 'net. First one to control
the other box wins.

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 22:19:04 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:19:04 -0400
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
In-Reply-To: <18340.216.138.194.32.1065736465.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310091445.29466.fraser@wehave.net>
	<18340.216.138.194.32.1065736465.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031009181904.2135bb1a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 17:54:25 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Maybe we should challenge the guy to a showdown at the OK corral. We
> each start with a bare metal box and a pristine cd of our chosen OS
> and an unguarded, unfiltered connection direct to the 'net. First one
> to control the other box wins.

100 bones on the Linux box!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reality is for people who lack imagination.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From phillip-/6JGXy0y6WMkn5nKnFR3Ls0R97HRMWuz at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 22:34:18 2003
From: phillip-/6JGXy0y6WMkn5nKnFR3Ls0R97HRMWuz at public.gmane.org (Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca))
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:34:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to start a revolution?
Message-ID: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>


Hello TLUGers,

Many thanks for your time and comments in advance.

Among other pursuits, I volunteer at a computer literacy centre in Regent Park. I've
been there almost three years and have watched us support hundreds of students --
grades 3 to 8 -- in their first computer experiences. The program is unique, in that
the students of the "intro" course earn a refurbished computer for their efforts. The
computers are donated by several large companies in the Toronto area.

It is with more-and-more disappointment that I see year-after-year these young people
leaving our lab with the "albatross" that I feel Windows is in this context; that
being financially challenged households, who will probably be unlikely to ever upgrade
their OS or actually buy software. I don't feel good thinking of arming these young
people with a costly ball-and-chain or creating an army of software pirates.

Over the last two years, I've been slowly working to convince the staff and executive
to explore the possibility of using Free/Libre/Gnu open source options for not only
the course material software, but also for the OS itself. To date our only win has
been getting Open Office installed on all of the labs 20+ PCs.

The lab is at a cross roads and I feel that now may be the time to move beyond the
challenges that have made it difficult in the past. Microsoft is no longer supporting
Windows 98 and probably won't provide any more licenses to the lab. They've offered XP
licenses, but the lab's tech support guy doesn't feel that XP will run well on the
refurbished PII 266 machines that we're giving out at the moment.

In addition to that, the lab bought a new server a while ago and my intent was to use
FreeBSD (my personal server choice, but nothing against Linux there either) to support
the shared drive needs of the lab. Unfortunately, in the end, it became too
challenging without the Un*x-type user account support (or the other way around,
without the Windows authentication) to do this easily. So the tech guy went on to
install and set-up Win2k... however, that is not working for him either (in a weird
twist of events, that Win2k is acting up!) and he's asking me what to do next.

Two opportunities, both will timed.

What I would like to see happen -- in my perfect world -- is to convert the entire lab
(minus one or two PCs they need Windows on for their legacy DB and whatever) converted
to a Linux environment. The courses we teach only require Open Office, a browser, GIMP
and a few other basic applications. The server is only used as a shared drive and I'd
like to see it serving the students web pages too (easy in the Un*x world). And,
finally, I'd like to see us giving these students a future that's not costly or
proprietary by supplying a Linux installed PC to them at graduation.

The challenges are thus...

1. No good case studies of this having been done (that I can find) ... not lose
references, but actual case studies; people we could talk to.

2. No Linux knowledge base among the tech guy or volunteers (except me).

3. Convincing the staff and executive to take a leap of faith. Which requires showing
them Linux running with a decent desktop and the basic apps.

4. (this ones tricky) AOL donates 10 years of free internet access to a smaller
sub-set of students. (I've seen Linux answer for this, but I've never tried it)

I think the opportunities are clear. Having not only a working Linux lap in Toronto,
but sending hundreds of young people out into their communities with experience and
understanding of open source software. I believe it could be a beacon and serve as a
great exp ample to others who might be considering the same.

Finally, if it were to pass, we'd need a bunch of Linux experts to help with the
planning and a pseudo installfest type thing when the time came to convert the lab.

So, I guess I'm asking for input, ideas, opinions and general thoughts and guidance on
this. I've been at the lab a long time and I don't want to steer them down the wrong
path. I'm just a volunteer and advisor, I can't hold their hand through this ... but I
can introduce them to the people who can help (people like you) and give them my
advise, which they seem to take seriously.

Many thanks to all of you in advance,

Phillip.



--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct  9 22:38:32 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:38:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="JoeHill">
>
> The recent report by the CCIA gave us an academic viewpoint as to why
> Windows is a blight on the Internet.
>
> This article provides a concrete example as to why Windows machines
> should be disconnected from the Internet, quarantined, and otherwise
> shut out, wherever possible, until MS decides to take responsibility for
> this outrageous lack of security.
>
> http://www.wired.com/news/business/0,1367,60747,00.html

Good article. It shows how they're using dns to scoot around being traced.
It would be interesting to see the snort-snarf output on those different
packets.

Not sure if I agree with your fix for it though. As I see it, this is just
an example of how we have to be just as inventive in our own policies as
the bad guys are in trying to be invisible.

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 01:56:34 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:56:34 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel-3FyN9KwLBikOAsET96VVuuqpMbaZSuSF930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
Message-ID: <200310092156.36682.marc@lijour.net>

Le 9 Octobre 2003 18:34, Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca) a ?crit :
> Hello TLUGers,
>
> Many thanks for your time and comments in advance.
>
> Among other pursuits, I volunteer at a computer literacy centre in Regent
> Park. I've been there almost three years and have watched us support
> hundreds of students -- grades 3 to 8 -- in their first computer
> experiences. The program is unique, in that the students of the "intro"
> course earn a refurbished computer for their efforts. The computers are
> donated by several large companies in the Toronto area.
>
> It is with more-and-more disappointment that I see year-after-year these
> young people leaving our lab with the "albatross" that I feel Windows is in
> this context; that being financially challenged households, who will
> probably be unlikely to ever upgrade their OS or actually buy software. I
> don't feel good thinking of arming these young people with a costly
> ball-and-chain or creating an army of software pirates.
>
> Over the last two years, I've been slowly working to convince the staff and
> executive to explore the possibility of using Free/Libre/Gnu open source
> options for not only the course material software, but also for the OS
> itself. To date our only win has been getting Open Office installed on all
> of the labs 20+ PCs.
>
> The lab is at a cross roads and I feel that now may be the time to move
> beyond the challenges that have made it difficult in the past. Microsoft is
> no longer supporting Windows 98 and probably won't provide any more
> licenses to the lab. They've offered XP licenses, but the lab's tech
> support guy doesn't feel that XP will run well on the refurbished PII 266
> machines that we're giving out at the moment.
>
> In addition to that, the lab bought a new server a while ago and my intent
> was to use FreeBSD (my personal server choice, but nothing against Linux
> there either) to support the shared drive needs of the lab. Unfortunately,
> in the end, it became too challenging without the Un*x-type user account
> support (or the other way around, without the Windows authentication) to do
> this easily. So the tech guy went on to install and set-up Win2k...
> however, that is not working for him either (in a weird twist of events,
> that Win2k is acting up!) and he's asking me what to do next.
>
> Two opportunities, both will timed.
>
> What I would like to see happen -- in my perfect world -- is to convert the
> entire lab (minus one or two PCs they need Windows on for their legacy DB
> and whatever) converted to a Linux environment. The courses we teach only
> require Open Office, a browser, GIMP and a few other basic applications.
> The server is only used as a shared drive and I'd like to see it serving
> the students web pages too (easy in the Un*x world). And, finally, I'd like
> to see us giving these students a future that's not costly or proprietary
> by supplying a Linux installed PC to them at graduation.
>
> The challenges are thus...
>
> 1. No good case studies of this having been done (that I can find) ... not
> lose references, but actual case studies; people we could talk to.
>
> 2. No Linux knowledge base among the tech guy or volunteers (except me).
>
> 3. Convincing the staff and executive to take a leap of faith. Which
> requires showing them Linux running with a decent desktop and the basic
> apps.
>
> 4. (this ones tricky) AOL donates 10 years of free internet access to a
> smaller sub-set of students. (I've seen Linux answer for this, but I've
> never tried it)
>
> I think the opportunities are clear. Having not only a working Linux lap in
> Toronto, but sending hundreds of young people out into their communities
> with experience and understanding of open source software. I believe it
> could be a beacon and serve as a great exp ample to others who might be
> considering the same.
>
> Finally, if it were to pass, we'd need a bunch of Linux experts to help
> with the planning and a pseudo installfest type thing when the time came to
> convert the lab.
>
> So, I guess I'm asking for input, ideas, opinions and general thoughts and
> guidance on this. I've been at the lab a long time and I don't want to
> steer them down the wrong path. I'm just a volunteer and advisor, I can't
> hold their hand through this ... but I can introduce them to the people who
> can help (people like you) and give them my advise, which they seem to take
> seriously.
>
> Many thanks to all of you in advance,
>
> Phillip.
>

Hi Phillip

nice to hear the good news!

We (I) are doing just that in the French school where I work. I say I because, 
I'm alone doing this, but it doesn't matter as I teach nearly all computer 
courses at this time.

We use OpenOffice and GIMP. But I still have to keep the win98 station, though 
I have a Linux server for my use too.
Adaptation of my students in the business world is smooth (migrating most 
often to MS office), as far as I know. Meaning, they have the best of both 
worlds...

2 years ago I set a all-linux network for a private French school. We had 
really bad hardware (P100 with 16 MB of RAM, and the server was a P2 with 256 
MB of RAM). 

I'd be glad to help.

Most of the stuff you can do yourself (Linux gives you the choice).

Or you can use a special distro-set-up. I know of one in France. May be a 
google search could help you in finding Linux at school configs.

I would love to get more my school more involved too.

Good luck.

Marc


> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 03:17:32 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:17:32 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E28319130@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

Great idea!

What case studies are you looking for? Non profits using linux?

I am a member of a Literacy council in Arthur and I have set up Samba, Apache and Proftp on a Linux server for just the same purpose. The literacy employees have also been trained in the maintenance of the server and don't mind one bit that an old pc has become very useful.

If I can be of any help - let me know.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) [mailto:marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2003 9:57 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: How to start a revolution?

Le 9 Octobre 2003 18:34, Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca) a ?crit :
> Hello TLUGers,
>
> Many thanks for your time and comments in advance.
>
> Among other pursuits, I volunteer at a computer literacy centre in Regent
> Park. I've been there almost three years and have watched us support
> hundreds of students -- grades 3 to 8 -- in their first computer
> experiences. The program is unique, in that the students of the "intro"
> course earn a refurbished computer for their efforts. The computers are
> donated by several large companies in the Toronto area.
>
> It is with more-and-more disappointment that I see year-after-year these
> young people leaving our lab with the "albatross" that I feel Windows is in
> this context; that being financially challenged households, who will
> probably be unlikely to ever upgrade their OS or actually buy software. I
> don't feel good thinking of arming these young people with a costly
> ball-and-chain or creating an army of software pirates.
>
> Over the last two years, I've been slowly working to convince the staff and
> executive to explore the possibility of using Free/Libre/Gnu open source
> options for not only the course material software, but also for the OS
> itself. To date our only win has been getting Open Office installed on all
> of the labs 20+ PCs.
>
> The lab is at a cross roads and I feel that now may be the time to move
> beyond the challenges that have made it difficult in the past. Microsoft is
> no longer supporting Windows 98 and probably won't provide any more
> licenses to the lab. They've offered XP licenses, but the lab's tech
> support guy doesn't feel that XP will run well on the refurbished PII 266
> machines that we're giving out at the moment.
>
> In addition to that, the lab bought a new server a while ago and my intent
> was to use FreeBSD (my personal server choice, but nothing against Linux
> there either) to support the shared drive needs of the lab. Unfortunately,
> in the end, it became too challenging without the Un*x-type user account
> support (or the other way around, without the Windows authentication) to do
> this easily. So the tech guy went on to install and set-up Win2k...
> however, that is not working for him either (in a weird twist of events,
> that Win2k is acting up!) and he's asking me what to do next.
>
> Two opportunities, both will timed.
>
> What I would like to see happen -- in my perfect world -- is to convert the
> entire lab (minus one or two PCs they need Windows on for their legacy DB
> and whatever) converted to a Linux environment. The courses we teach only
> require Open Office, a browser, GIMP and a few other basic applications.
> The server is only used as a shared drive and I'd like to see it serving
> the students web pages too (easy in the Un*x world). And, finally, I'd like
> to see us giving these students a future that's not costly or proprietary
> by supplying a Linux installed PC to them at graduation.
>
> The challenges are thus...
>
> 1. No good case studies of this having been done (that I can find) ... not
> lose references, but actual case studies; people we could talk to.
>
> 2. No Linux knowledge base among the tech guy or volunteers (except me).
>
> 3. Convincing the staff and executive to take a leap of faith. Which
> requires showing them Linux running with a decent desktop and the basic
> apps.
>
> 4. (this ones tricky) AOL donates 10 years of free internet access to a
> smaller sub-set of students. (I've seen Linux answer for this, but I've
> never tried it)
>
> I think the opportunities are clear. Having not only a working Linux lap in
> Toronto, but sending hundreds of young people out into their communities
> with experience and understanding of open source software. I believe it
> could be a beacon and serve as a great exp ample to others who might be
> considering the same.
>
> Finally, if it were to pass, we'd need a bunch of Linux experts to help
> with the planning and a pseudo installfest type thing when the time came to
> convert the lab.
>
> So, I guess I'm asking for input, ideas, opinions and general thoughts and
> guidance on this. I've been at the lab a long time and I don't want to
> steer them down the wrong path. I'm just a volunteer and advisor, I can't
> hold their hand through this ... but I can introduce them to the people who
> can help (people like you) and give them my advise, which they seem to take
> seriously.
>
> Many thanks to all of you in advance,
>
> Phillip.
>

Hi Phillip

nice to hear the good news!

We (I) are doing just that in the French school where I work. I say I because, 
I'm alone doing this, but it doesn't matter as I teach nearly all computer 
courses at this time.

We use OpenOffice and GIMP. But I still have to keep the win98 station, though 
I have a Linux server for my use too.
Adaptation of my students in the business world is smooth (migrating most 
often to MS office), as far as I know. Meaning, they have the best of both 
worlds...

2 years ago I set a all-linux network for a private French school. We had 
really bad hardware (P100 with 16 MB of RAM, and the server was a P2 with 256 
MB of RAM). 

I'd be glad to help.

Most of the stuff you can do yourself (Linux gives you the choice).

Or you can use a special distro-set-up. I know of one in France. May be a 
google search could help you in finding Linux at school configs.

I would love to get more my school more involved too.

Good luck.

Marc


> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
--
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 03:47:20 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031009025732.5d70a3c9.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080048030.16599@xword.rogers.com>
 <20031008052158.GA1632@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080147020.16599@xword.rogers.com>
 <20031009025732.5d70a3c9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310092323470.16599@xword.rogers.com>

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Oct 2003 01:50:14 -0400 (EDT)
> "Chris F.A. Johnson" <c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> >      That would probably take care of it in my script, too; the main
> >      reason for not using procmail is to prevent having to download
> >      multimegabytes every hour.
> >
> >      Another program that delete at the source is mailfilter:
> >
> >        <http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/>
> >
> >      Unfortunately, it only reads the headers, and I found that the
> >      most reliable block was in the top 10 to 20 lines of the body (as
> >      also shown by your solution), so I wrote the script. The regex
> >      files do need tuning.
>
> I currently use Mailfilter to snag the obvious ones (it catches most of
> the MS Patch types anyway, currently) and this with Procmail:
>
> http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nikant/nkvir/
>
> to filter out the rest.
>
> Could your script be called by fetchmail the same way Mailfilter is *at
> the same time*?

     The script replaces both fetchmail (or get-mail, in my case) and
     mailfilter. Or either one.

     So I was going to say no, but as I think about it, it could in
     fact be called by fetchmail: just set retrieve=0 in the config
     file so that it doesn't download the mail itself.

> or would I need to call it seperately, say as a cron job
> or something?

     I set up a new e-mail account a few days ago; I used it yesterday
     for the first time to post some messages to newsgroups. Within a
     couple of hours, that account received 4 copies of the SWEN
     virus!

> This is the one feature I would like to see in MF, the ability to look
> for attachments, but the developer seems pretty much dead against taking
> it in that direction to keep it on the light side.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 11:06:35 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:06:35 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031009190633.GA1104-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090712590.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031010070635.71c17e31.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:06:33 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> You pay your ISP, just like you're doing now.  Your ISP pays their ISP
> (ie. Bell).  Even if you connect directly to recipient's machine, you
> still have to go through your ISP, through telecom backbone, and then
> through recipient's ISP.  They'll love it.  They'll charge you money,
> and blame the "government" for making them do it.

I just hate to think that someone is getting/paying more money because
of some jackass who spam the 'net.

I think I like the idea of hitting the spammer back where it really
hurts, a la Paul Graham's FFB.

I *definitely* don't like the idea of incorporating anything like DRM
into my software. All I have to know is who came up with the idea of DRM
in the first place to know it's not for me ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all.
		-- Arthur Balfour
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 12:19:38 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:19:38 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
Message-ID: <013801c38f28$c6bacaa0$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

Phillip,

We should do lunch sometime soon.

I am involved with a charity near King and River (not too far from you it
would seem) that teaches people on social assistance how to refurbish old
PCs, and I have been working towards getting these folks onto Linux.

Also, for the World Science Fiction Convention that was here Labour Day
weekend I was responsible for the setting up and running of the Internet
Lounge. The Lounge was a 28 machine Linux based Lounge that got set-up in
one day by 3 people (myself and two people who had NO knowledge of Linux).
Ok, so I cheated sort of, but they are cheats that could have real
application where you are :-) . Further, I didn't know until about a week
before the convention what sort of PC hardware I would have for the
convention (turned out they were 28 Pentium II 400 machines with 128 MB of
RAM). Now granted I did know months in advance that I would be doing this
project, so was making my plans on the basis that I would not know the
hardware until the last minute and that I would have very little set-up time
available... Also of note, once the convention started the Lounge was run 24
hours a day for 5 days with very little trouble, and most of the time the
room was being monitored by people with little to no Linux knowledge.

Colin McGregor

"Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca)" <phillip-/6JGXy0y6WMkn5nKnFR3Ls0R97HRMWuz at public.gmane.org>
Thursday, October 09, 2003 6:34 PM

>
> Hello TLUGers,
>
> Many thanks for your time and comments in advance.
>
> Among other pursuits, I volunteer at a computer literacy centre in Regent
Park. I've
> been there almost three years and have watched us support hundreds of
students --
> grades 3 to 8 -- in their first computer experiences. The program is
unique, in that
> the students of the "intro" course earn a refurbished computer for their
efforts. The
> computers are donated by several large companies in the Toronto area.
>
> It is with more-and-more disappointment that I see year-after-year these
young people
> leaving our lab with the "albatross" that I feel Windows is in this
context; that
> being financially challenged households, who will probably be unlikely to
ever upgrade
> their OS or actually buy software. I don't feel good thinking of arming
these young
> people with a costly ball-and-chain or creating an army of software
pirates.
>
> Over the last two years, I've been slowly working to convince the staff
and executive
> to explore the possibility of using Free/Libre/Gnu open source options for
not only
> the course material software, but also for the OS itself. To date our only
win has
> been getting Open Office installed on all of the labs 20+ PCs.
>
> The lab is at a cross roads and I feel that now may be the time to move
beyond the
> challenges that have made it difficult in the past. Microsoft is no longer
supporting
> Windows 98 and probably won't provide any more licenses to the lab.
They've offered XP
> licenses, but the lab's tech support guy doesn't feel that XP will run
well on the
> refurbished PII 266 machines that we're giving out at the moment.
>
> In addition to that, the lab bought a new server a while ago and my intent
was to use
> FreeBSD (my personal server choice, but nothing against Linux there
either) to support
> the shared drive needs of the lab. Unfortunately, in the end, it became
too
> challenging without the Un*x-type user account support (or the other way
around,
> without the Windows authentication) to do this easily. So the tech guy
went on to
> install and set-up Win2k... however, that is not working for him either
(in a weird
> twist of events, that Win2k is acting up!) and he's asking me what to do
next.
>
> Two opportunities, both will timed.
>
> What I would like to see happen -- in my perfect world -- is to convert
the entire lab
> (minus one or two PCs they need Windows on for their legacy DB and
whatever) converted
> to a Linux environment. The courses we teach only require Open Office, a
browser, GIMP
> and a few other basic applications. The server is only used as a shared
drive and I'd
> like to see it serving the students web pages too (easy in the Un*x
world). And,
> finally, I'd like to see us giving these students a future that's not
costly or
> proprietary by supplying a Linux installed PC to them at graduation.
>
> The challenges are thus...
>
> 1. No good case studies of this having been done (that I can find) ... not
lose
> references, but actual case studies; people we could talk to.
>
> 2. No Linux knowledge base among the tech guy or volunteers (except me).
>
> 3. Convincing the staff and executive to take a leap of faith. Which
requires showing
> them Linux running with a decent desktop and the basic apps.
>
> 4. (this ones tricky) AOL donates 10 years of free internet access to a
smaller
> sub-set of students. (I've seen Linux answer for this, but I've never
tried it)
>
> I think the opportunities are clear. Having not only a working Linux lap
in Toronto,
> but sending hundreds of young people out into their communities with
experience and
> understanding of open source software. I believe it could be a beacon and
serve as a
> great exp ample to others who might be considering the same.
>
> Finally, if it were to pass, we'd need a bunch of Linux experts to help
with the
> planning and a pseudo installfest type thing when the time came to convert
the lab.
>
> So, I guess I'm asking for input, ideas, opinions and general thoughts and
guidance on
> this. I've been at the lab a long time and I don't want to steer them down
the wrong
> path. I'm just a volunteer and advisor, I can't hold their hand through
this ... but I
> can introduce them to the people who can help (people like you) and give
them my
> advise, which they seem to take seriously.
>
> Many thanks to all of you in advance,
>
> Phillip.

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 10:58:50 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:58:50 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310092323470.16599-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310080034.19218.fraser@wehave.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080048030.16599@xword.rogers.com>
	<20031008052158.GA1632@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310080147020.16599@xword.rogers.com>
	<20031009025732.5d70a3c9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310092323470.16599@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031010065850.36cb3dff.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 23:47:20 -0400 (EDT)
"Chris F.A. Johnson" <c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > Could your script be called by fetchmail the same way Mailfilter is
> > *at the same time*?
> 
>      The script replaces both fetchmail (or get-mail, in my case) and
>      mailfilter. Or either one.

>From what I've seen, it uses the same kind of config file as Mailfilter
(duh, they're both using RegExp...), so it wouldn't be much to simply
copy and paste my rules from Mailfilter over.

>      So I was going to say no, but as I think about it, it could in
>      fact be called by fetchmail: just set retrieve=0 in the config
>      file so that it doesn't download the mail itself.

Ya, I saw that, good thinkin'.

How is it on speed, though? Fetchmail and Mailfilter work very quickly
and with relatively low overhead. A bash script would by definition be
slower, no?

> > or would I need to call it seperately, say as a cron job
> > or something?
> 
>      I set up a new e-mail account a few days ago; I used it yesterday
>      for the first time to post some messages to newsgroups. Within a
>      couple of hours, that account received 4 copies of the SWEN
>      virus!

I don't doubt it. Like I say, I haven't been "plagued" by the onslaught
of this latest virus as much as some, but I'm definitely going to play
with this. I might try as a cron job, but my only concern there I
guess is that it might "interfere" with Fetchmail and Mailfilter
doing their thang. 

In any case, it's another tool in the arsenal against spam. So far
Mailfilter has caught *most* of the attempts and bopped them right off
my POP server, but that's cuz I use very restrictive rules. Basically,
if mail is not coming from a known source, it has very little chance of
getting through. It would have to be plain text, from a mailer other
than Outhouse, and addressed to me specifically, and even then
mention.sympatico.ca no more than 2 times.

Thanks!
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reality is nothing but a collective hunch.
	-- Lily Tomlin
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 12:40:00 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:40:00 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:38:32 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Good article. It shows how they're using dns to scoot around being
> traced. It would be interesting to see the snort-snarf output on those
> different packets.
> 
> Not sure if I agree with your fix for it though. As I see it, this is
> just an example of how we have to be just as inventive in our own
> policies as the bad guys are in trying to be invisible.

But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with which
these people can compromise Windows software?

And the only way to get their attention is to make Windows more
difficult to use on the 'net, ie. find a way to identify the machines
and shut them out.

I already block all mail from Outlook unless it is from a known person
or list, and there are ways to make websites inaccessible to IE (there
must be, if there are ways to do the reverse), which I am going to look
into.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life can be so tragic -- you're here today and here tomorrow.
--
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From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 13:52:52 2003
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:52:52 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
Message-ID: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523@hotmail.com>

Hi,

I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used 
harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that crashed a 
while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match  to 
the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose it's worth a couple of 
bucks just to try...

Martin

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 14:05:29 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:05:29 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031010100529.66db2f77.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:52:52 -0400
"Martin Duclos" <tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used 
> harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that
> crashed a while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an
> exact match  to the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose
> it's worth a couple of bucks just to try...

There's a shop I've been frequenting of late, www.a1parts.com, right off
Kipling in the West end.

Really nice guy that runs the place too.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The chief danger in life is that you may take too many precautions.
		-- Alfred Adler
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 10:12:37 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:12:37 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <200310092156.36682.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
	<200310092156.36682.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031010061237.35bc27af.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:56:34 -0400
"Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I'd be glad to help.

Me too! I've been hankerin' for something like this to get a
"revolution" going.

I may not be as much an expert as Marc, but I've been running
exclusively Mandrake Linux for 2 years now, I have my own home-built LAN
from bits and bobs, and I am a former MCSE, so I know all about how to
get rid of Windows lickety-split ;-)

> Most of the stuff you can do yourself (Linux gives you the choice).

And it's all freeeeeee!
 
> Or you can use a special distro-set-up. I know of one in France. May
> be a google search could help you in finding Linux at school configs.
> 
> I would love to get more my school more involved too.
> 
> Good luck.

I've got a lot of spare time to donate, so please just let me know where
and when and I'd be more than happy to help.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you
do it.
		-- Gandhi
--
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From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 14:25:21 2003
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 10:25:21 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
Message-ID: <Sea2-F26UxrMs4dYUTv00004868@hotmail.com>



 > I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used
 > harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that
 > crashed a while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an
 > exact match  to the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose
 > it's worth a couple of bucks just to try...

There's a shop I've been frequenting of late, www.a1parts.com, right off
Kipling in the West end.

Really nice guy that runs the place too.

Thanks for the reference. I called and they don't have what I'm looking for. 
I looked at the website. I'll have to keep that as a reference for 
electronics! 8-) Ideas of anywhere else I could check?

Martin

_________________________________________________________________
Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage.   
http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 13:59:55 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:59:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031009221008.GA697-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
        <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
        <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
        <200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
        <20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


William Park said:
> On Thu, Oct 09, 2003 at 05:29:05PM -0400, Charly Baker wrote:
>> And the spammers will carry on exactly as they now do, totally
>> unaffected by  this nonsense.
>
> Difference is that they'll be paying for what they are doing.  I don't
> mind that.  If you have the money, please go ahead and support your
> local ISP.

I do have a major problem with this.  We're taking a technology that could
enable everyone on the planet to collaborate together, and because of a
few miscreants, we'll add a brick wall.  The end result will be that
corporations that can afford to pay the initial costs will be able to send
just as much spam as before, but individuals who want to run a mailing
list will be screwed.  Have you noticed the amount of junk mail you get in
your physical mailbox?  We're facing the same thing here.  Putting an
artificial price tag won't do anything except hurt the end user
Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups,
  parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche
 ********************************************************************/



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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 22:26:51 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:26:51 -0400
Subject: tar backup to remote tape drive
Message-ID: <3F87322B.7050901@rogers.com>

Greetings all,

Finally back to doing regular backups on my home boxen as should be
done... but I have a question for y'all:

Client is my OpenBSD 3.3 box, backing up to /dev/st0 on my SuSE 8.2 box,
over 100Mb ethernet, using the BSD not GNU flavour of tar.

If I use the following command string:

	tar -czvf - / | ssh sheridan dd of=/dev/st0 bs=10240

it fails due to to dd choking on /dev/st0 as an invalid parameter, and I
get a broken pipe. However, if I use the following command string:

	tar -czvf - / | ssh sheridan dd of=/dev/st0 obs=20b

Everything goes swimmingly. What the frig?

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.



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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 22:35:40 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:35:40 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel-3FyN9KwLBikOAsET96VVuuqpMbaZSuSF930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
Message-ID: <3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com>

How to start a revolution, eh? I favour the use of an 'agent 
provocateur' personally ;)

Revolutions fall flat on their faces unless there is a groundswell of 
grassroots support. Are your circumstances ripe? Otherwise I would 
suggest you bide your time and effort, but keep on poking and prodding 
when appropriate situations present themselves. Strike while and where 
the iron is hot, as they say!

People, on the whole, are lazy and loathe to change the way the operate 
unless there is sufficient motivation to do so.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

--
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 22:19:33 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 18:19:33 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F873075.7060502@rogers.com>

 > I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match
> to the one on my hd so I can restore the data. 

I'm curious here... why do you need an exact replica of the controller? 
We're rather far off of the MFM/RLL years, ya know ;) Any old IDE or 
SCSI controller should do just fine.

Perhaps you mean the PCB mounted on the underside of the HDD itself is 
cooked?


-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 15:10:18 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:10:18 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
	<20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
	<20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <20031010111018.35c21153.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:59:55 -0400 (EDT)
"Kareem Shehata" <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I do have a major problem with this.  We're taking a technology that
> could enable everyone on the planet to collaborate together, and
> because of a few miscreants, we'll add a brick wall.  The end result
> will be that corporations that can afford to pay the initial costs
> will be able to send just as much spam as before, but individuals who
> want to run a mailing list will be screwed.  Have you noticed the
> amount of junk mail you get in your physical mailbox?  We're facing
> the same thing here.  Putting an artificial price tag won't do
> anything except hurt the end user 

Agreed, this is exactly what the corporate warlords want, is to shut out
the end-user from all attempts to modify content on the internet, and
make it, as I and many others have described it many times, a "content
delivery system", another version of TV.

Charging people per-mail is one step in that direction, and as Kareem
rightly points out, is punishing the wrong people. The ability to
send/upload/modify ought to be universal and free, if it is to work for
good (ie. a community of equals, the only truly workable communicative
structure) instead of evil (ie. an ideological and one-way stream of
bullshit).

As the Discordians say, true communication is only possible between
equals, and if you start putting a premium on that communication, it
becomes by definition unequal. It is already unequal enough, in that
only a few million of us have the resources to go "online", let's not
make it more so.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing is ever a total loss; it can always serve as a bad example.
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 00:29:13 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 20:29:13 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <3F87343C.1060501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca> <3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031011002913.GA1035@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 06:35:40PM -0400, Byron Sonne wrote:
> How to start a revolution, eh? I favour the use of an 'agent 
> provocateur' personally ;)

No.  4 battleships are enough.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 15:43:05 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:43:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: <20031010100529.66db2f77.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031010100529.66db2f77.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310101141390.23238-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I think I remember that place, I don;t hold a very high opinion about it 
though, they don't seem very interested in business.


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:52:52 -0400
> "Martin Duclos" <tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used 
> > harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that
> > crashed a while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an
> > exact match  to the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose
> > it's worth a couple of bucks just to try...
> 
> There's a shop I've been frequenting of late, www.a1parts.com, right off
> Kipling in the West end.
> 
> Really nice guy that runs the place too.
> 
> 

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 16:43:27 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:43:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <20031010164327.2642.qmail@web21004.mail.yahoo.com>

Agreed, the only way is to get a handle on spam, is instead of trying to censure the spammers, go after the corporations that are paying the spammers to advertise on their behalf (with fines). It really is quite simple, no need to use Draconian measures at the ISP level. That's using a sledgehammer in place of a scapel...

Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:
I do have a major problem with this. We're taking a technology that could
enable everyone on the planet to collaborate together, and because of a
few miscreants, we'll add a brick wall. The end result will be that
corporations that can afford to pay the initial costs will be able to send
just as much spam as before, but individuals who want to run a mailing
list will be screwed. Have you noticed the amount of junk mail you get in
your physical mailbox? We're facing the same thing here. Putting an
artificial price tag won't do anything except hurt the end user
Kareem



Regards,
Stephen


---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 19:52:35 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 15:52:35 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <20031010061237.35bc27af.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca> <200310092156.36682.marc@lijour.net> <20031010061237.35bc27af.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310101552.37385.marc@lijour.net>

Le 10 Octobre 2003 06:12, JoeHill a ?crit :
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 21:56:34 -0400
>
> "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > I'd be glad to help.
>
> Me too! I've been hankerin' for something like this to get a
> "revolution" going.
>
> I may not be as much an expert as Marc, but I've been running
> exclusively Mandrake Linux for 2 years now, I have my own home-built LAN
> from bits and bobs, and I am a former MCSE, so I know all about how to
> get rid of Windows lickety-split ;-)

Well, a disclaimer here. I don't pretend to be an expert :-)

I just say that I have a related experience and actually I'm currently working 
on the same direction as you do.

It would be very interesting to get eveybody of us connected. This way we 
could plan ahead, and even serve as a profesional-level consulting base for a 
school board that would consider a move to Linux.

May be, later we could move into advocacy with our global knowledge of the 
education system and the issues at stake.



> > Most of the stuff you can do yourself (Linux gives you the choice).
>
> And it's all freeeeeee!
>
> > Or you can use a special distro-set-up. I know of one in France. May
> > be a google search could help you in finding Linux at school configs.
> >
> > I would love to get more my school more involved too.
> >
> > Good luck.
>
> I've got a lot of spare time to donate, so please just let me know where
> and when and I'd be more than happy to help.

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 18:23:06 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:23:06 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031010182306.GA395@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:40:00AM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with which
> these people can compromise Windows software?

No, unless we want to charge one fee for BMW and another fee for Buick.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 17:01:28 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 10 Oct 2003 13:01:28 -0400
Subject: [fwd] ATI Looking for Linux Developer or Linux QA
Message-ID: <lvfzi1m3h3.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

>
> Thought you might want to forward this around to people on the LUG, 
> send me any resumes that you get.

This just came in.  If anyone is interested please drop me a note off list
and I'll send on your info.

-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 16:38:36 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:38:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca><18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="JoeHill">
> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 18:38:32 -0400 (EDT)
> "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>> Good article. It shows how they're using dns to scoot around being
>> traced. It would be interesting to see the snort-snarf output on those
>> different packets.
>>
>> Not sure if I agree with your fix for it though. As I see it, this is
>> just an example of how we have to be just as inventive in our own
>> policies as the bad guys are in trying to be invisible.
>
> But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with which
> these people can compromise Windows software?

Why? Read the EULA. You are not forced to purchase, or to use the
software. There is no guarantee that it will work. M$ had played a
significant role in getting the world to use computers. It's just time to
upgrade :)

> And the only way to get their attention is to make Windows more
> difficult to use on the 'net, ie. find a way to identify the machines
> and shut them out.

No. People have a tendency to work on a pain/pleasure routine. Pain is
most effective in the wallet. When the pain reaches a certain point, they
look for relief. We're here.

> I already block all mail from Outlook unless it is from a known person
> or list, and there are ways to make websites inaccessible to IE (there
> must be, if there are ways to do the reverse), which I am going to look
> into.

You are moving up your leg from shooting yourself in the foot. Don't aim
too high. :)

-- 
Keith
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 21:56:08 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:56:08 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F872AF8.4010002@truxtar.com>

JoeHill,

I think you are getting a little carried away here. You are going way 
overboard and leaving the realm of criticism. Here is how I see it:

Even though I don't like Microsoft software, I personally have nothing 
against the company or Bill Gates. Here is why:

Microsoft makes a product for a particular market - the novice to 
everyday computer user.  It is the ease of use of Microsoft Windows that 
made the internet revolution possible (I know that most of the servers 
are *nix, but what's the point of having servers if no one can access 
the site?)  Microsoft is a multi-trillion dollar corporation that 
creates tens of thousands of jobs.  It is no more or less evil than 
McDonalds or GM.  They are certainly not as bad as the government which 
imposes its monopoly(s) with guns and laws.

That doesn't mean that Windows is a good piece of software.  However, 
there is a large market of people who's needs are satisfied by Windows. 
  For these people it's a good piece of software.  Let it be (sort of).

Linux and Windows fill their own niches in the computer OS market.  The 
real problem is that Windows is so insecure that it causes problems for 
not only its users, but all other users of the internet.  Worse yet, 
Microsoft isn't in a big hurry to fix it.

The only way to fix this problem is to make Microsoft *want* to fix it. 
  I say *want*, because the minute we *force* a business to modify its 
practices it is called communism or fascism, which ever you prefer to 
call it.

The real way to make a business change it's policies is to use the rules 
of "supply and demand".  This doesn't mean "Demand the supply", it means 
"The demand creates the supply".  In other words, if the consumers want 
something bad enough, someone will always come along and build a 
business that fills that gap.  Microsoft was built by allowing ordinary 
people to use a computer with ease.  Linux is becoming more popular as 
people want more stable and secure computing.

Therefore, the solution to this problem and many more problems in 
today's society (including the "Windows Refund" issue discussed some 
weeks ago) is education.  Not the "1+1=2" and "Canada became a country 
in 1867" crap, but education about choices.  People need to know that 
there is more than one operating system out there, that there are more 
ways to succeed in life than "go to school and get a safe secure job", etc.

A few days ago my Computer Science teacher had me do a presentation on 
Linux for the class (no bonus marks or anything).  I had some of my 
classmates install and use Redhat.  They where surprised at how easy it 
was to use.  At least two people in my class are now considering getting 
Linux on their next computer.  They now know that there are options to 
Windoss.  This 'lesson' part of the curriculum or anything.  That is the 
power of education and knowledge rather than blind protests, complaints, 
or regulations.

Sorry this was so long, but I found that I have a lot to say once I 
started writing. Thanks for reading it all.


Anton



JoeHill wrote:
> But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with which
> these people can compromise Windows software?
> 
> And the only way to get their attention is to make Windows more
> difficult to use on the 'net, ie. find a way to identify the machines
> and shut them out.
> 
> I already block all mail from Outlook unless it is from a known person
> or list, and there are ways to make websites inaccessible to IE (there
> must be, if there are ways to do the reverse), which I am going to look
> into.
> 

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 15:19:47 2003
From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:19:47 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
Message-ID: <T4sh/ks/Kn0Q089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel-3FyN9KwLBikOAsET96VVuuqpMbaZSuSF930Pai70D+E at public.gmane.org>,
"Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca)" <phillip-/6JGXy0y6WMkn5nKnFR3Ls0R97HRMWuz at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>3. Convincing the staff and executive to take a leap of faith. Which requires showing
>them Linux running with a decent desktop and the basic apps.

   Pegasoft has been looking at running temporary
Linux-based seminars at other people's computer facilities.
A Knoppix boot seems like a good compromise for getting real
software to the students and also satisfying the
administration that their existing set-ups won't be damaged.

   There are still a lot of COTS sites around where Linux or
BSD will still be a very difficult sell; along with being
computing-empowered, your students should be aware of this,
too.

        Regards.        Mel.
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 15:09:30 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:09:30 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F86CBAA.4010704@alteeve.com>

Hi,

   Normally I would recommend Above All but I am in the same boat... I 
have four or five dead Fujitsu's here and all have dead controller 
boards. I went there to try to find a replacement logic board and 
whatever they had has long ago been grabbed by others in the same boat. 
  I am pretty sure it is a single IC (voltage reg. for the motor 
controller, IIRC). With the latest dead drive being a friend of mine's 
with family photo's lost I may make it a priority to figure out how to 
repair the board itself. If I do, and if you would like, I would be 
happy to do yours as well (again, assuming I get it to work on my own).

Madison

Martin Duclos wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used 
> harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that crashed 
> a while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match  
> to the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose it's worth a 
> couple of bucks just to try...
> 
> Martin
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


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From ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 20:34:28 2003
From: ken-qoNZw2a/gFtBDLzU/O5InQ at public.gmane.org (Ken Heard)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:34:28 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
References: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F8717D4.9000606@heard.name>

You might also try Above All Electronic Surplus Ltd., 590 Bloor St. West 
(1.1 blocks west of Bathurst); 416-588-8119.

		Ken Heard

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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 10 16:39:38 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Sergey Semenyuk)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:39:38 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000701c38f4d$1908d990$0102a8c0@winxp>

Throw the drive away. I have three of them in the office (I guess the
same ones you are talking about), and if you'll even manage to make it
work with a different controller, I doubt it will live long. Well if you
want to give it a try, let me know, and I'll give you all three of them
(one even seems to be working from time to time). 

Sergey

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Martin
Duclos
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:53 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Used hadrware computer store

Hi,

I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used 
harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that crashed
a 
while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match
to 
the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose it's worth a
couple of 
bucks just to try...

Martin

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 01:19:40 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:19:40 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F872AF8.4010002-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F872AF8.4010002@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20031010211940.76e99c02.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 17:56:08 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I think you are getting a little carried away here. You are going way 
> overboard and leaving the realm of criticism.

I guess I'm not alone:

http://aaxnet.com/editor/edit029.html#mspath

Microsoft is not "filling a niche", they are a monopolistic (convicted
on all counts), predatory and, quite frankly, evil blight on the
Internet in general. They do not *create* jobs, they have destroyed
thousands of jobs by suppressing software development that tried to
compete with them (Netscape, OS/2, etc.).

Supply and demand? You must be joking. Microsoft never has and never
will play by those rules, they have deliberately manipulated both over a
long career.

Oh, and BTW, we *force* businesses to do things all the time, it's
called "regulation", you know, like they can't dump PCB's into Lake
Ontario, they can't trade shares on insider information, all that
"communist" stuff.

Pffffft!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He who despairs over an event is a coward, but he who holds hopes for
the human condition is a fool.
		-- Albert Camus
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From cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 01:29:00 2003
From: cmb-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Charly Baker)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 21:29:00 -0400
Subject: Fwd: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender
Message-ID: <200310102129.00799.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>


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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 02:22:24 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:22:24 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: <3F873075.7060502-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F873075.7060502@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310102218590.25111-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

he means the contorller on the drive itself.  thats' usually where they 
fry, leaving the data intact in the disk.  I've had to toss a 20GB like 
that, wasn't much luck finding a replacement controller especially for the 
fujitsus, they're deffective.


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Byron Sonne wrote:

>  > I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match
> > to the one on my hd so I can restore the data. 
> 
> I'm curious here... why do you need an exact replica of the controller? 
> We're rather far off of the MFM/RLL years, ya know ;) Any old IDE or 
> SCSI controller should do just fine.
> 
> Perhaps you mean the PCB mounted on the underside of the HDD itself is 
> cooked?
> 
> 
> 

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 02:28:31 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:28:31 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:38:36 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with
> > which these people can compromise Windows software?
> 
> Why? Read the EULA. You are not forced to purchase, or to use the
> software. There is no guarantee that it will work. M$ had played a
> significant role in getting the world to use computers. It's just time
> to upgrade :)

If you follow the current trend, MS is working on making it impossible
*not* to use their software, witness Palladium and their efforts to make
MoBo manufacturers tie the BIOS to MS software. And the idea that MS
gave the world computers is bunk, there would be a whole lot more
plugged in people in this world if it were not for MS's *criminal
behaviour* with respect to suppressing innovation and development. If
anything, there are *fewer* useable computers in the world thanks to MS,
since they've continually upped the hardware ante when it wasn't
necessary, pushing perfectly useable machines into the junk heap.

> > And the only way to get their attention is to make Windows more
> > difficult to use on the 'net, ie. find a way to identify the
> > machines and shut them out.
> 
> No. People have a tendency to work on a pain/pleasure routine. Pain is
> most effective in the wallet. When the pain reaches a certain point,
> they look for relief. We're here.

We won't be for long with that kind of complacent attitude. MS is intent
on making Linux, OSS, and the GPL for all intents and purposes illegal.
Witness their latest proxy attack using SCO, calling OSS "communist",
getting into bed with Bush and Ashcroft to make sure all us "hackers"
are kept in line.

> > I already block all mail from Outlook unless it is from a known
> > person or list, and there are ways to make websites inaccessible to
> > IE (there must be, if there are ways to do the reverse), which I am
> > going to look into.
> 
> You are moving up your leg from shooting yourself in the foot. Don't
> aim too high. :)

Why is that? 99% of the spam I get is from Outhouse. IE is a known
propagator of malicious code, in fact it's so easy to do that all you
have to do is load a properly mined web page to infect your system, and
the latest MS patch for this vulnerability doesn't even work, MS says
"they're working on it...". Why would I want to encourage people to use
such a thing? Have you checked your Apache logs lately? Do you ever run
snort or ethereal? Infected Windows crap is eating up bandwidth like
there's no tomorrow, and I'm supposed to put up with this? It takes me 3
minutes to send an e-mail sometimes because my ISP is so overloaded with
pondscum emanating from compromised XP boxes.

This is not just going to work itself out, it's about time some people
started messing up MS's bed.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We can embody the truth, but we cannot know it.
		-- Yates
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 02:42:28 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:42:28 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com>

Hi Hugh,

I really like your ideas.  I too am a strong supporter of capitalism and 
getting the government out of the way.  Unfortunately what you are 
describing is an utopia, that is to say it will never happen.  There is 
a flaw in human nature that will always create a certain number of 
bandits, crooks, politicians, and other dishonest individuals.  These 
people will try to abuse the system just as they do now and ruin it for 
everyone else.  There always has to be a controlling body that keeps 
these individuals from ruining it for everyone else.  Preferably this 
wouldn't be a democratic body (alas, the majority seem to fall under the 
definition of dishonest (or at least not-so-nice-and-kinda-lazy) I gave 
above), but an aristocracy of a kind where the members are selected 
based on their wealth and achievements in life (definitely not 
hereditary).  Isn't that the way most open-source projects elect their 
leaders (the 'achievements' part anyway)? 

A few more points below.

P.S.  Please understand that I am not contradicting your ideas.  I just 
want to point out that instead of concentrating on a perfect world that 
will never be, it is best to think of a real future and preferably as 
close in the future as possible; that way we can play our role in making 
that future come true.


Hugh Reilly wrote:

> OK, I read Peter's email. First, by "abundant" currency, I do not mean 
> the kind of hyperinflated currency that ruined the Weimar republic and 
> perhaps contributed to the rise of the Nazi party in Germany between 
> the wars. That kind of hyperinflation is caused by printing more and 
> more money which remains backed by the still limited productive 
> capacity of the economy. Finite economic capacity divided by 
> (approaching) infinite currency units equals valueless money, or 
> hyperinflation. That doesn't work.

Absolutely correct.  Unfortunately I think it is still happening on a 
smaller scale even today in the US and Canada.  (Where are the liberals 
gonna get the money for all those wonderful promises of their's without 
raising taxes?)

>
> Today we have a new class of economic product; digital/virtual 
> products whose marginal cost (approaches) zero, and that can be 
> reproduced and distributed ad infinitem (and is therefore 
> fundamentally abundant). Software, MP3s (for example), even 
> information and knowledge itself fall into that category in the 
> Internet age. As more and more of the overall economic activity is 
> comprised of these abundant economic products, we have the opportunity 
> to match production of these products exactly to demand--without the 
> need for "rationing" by raising prices until the demand and supply 
> curves meet.

What about a very finite resource called *time* that the programmers 
spend writing the software or that the artists spend producing their 
work?  Unfortunately there will be a large number of people who will 
want their time compensated in a more direct and obvious way than the 
way you describe.

>
> An "abundant" currency is one where, on the personal level, an account 
> balance of zero is not an impediment to spending. The account holder 
> can continue to spend and reduce his balance into the negative. The 
> negative balance need not be paid for with "interest", but is in fact 
> backed by his or her own capacity to create value within the context 
> of the larger organization which is responsible for managing that 
> particular currency.
>
Like I mentioned above, this approach would require either everyone to 
be totally honest or a central system/authority that determines the 
value of one currency in relation to another.  Although the first one 
would be preferable, the second one will be most likely to work.

> Does that clear thing up?

Yes, thanks.  It's good to hear I am not the only one who wants to kick 
the government out :-)

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

 "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
 - Some bad guy from 007


-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint = 
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

 "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
 - Some bad guy from 007

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 02:51:03 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:51:03 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <3F876E14.6080800-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>
	<3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:42:28 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Yes, thanks.

No. I don't think you understood a single word he said. It has nothing
whatsoever to do with Capitalism. Capital is no longer the primary means
of production, therefore control of Capital is no longer an issue,
control of information *is*. Yer still stuck in this whole Communist vs.
Capitalist thang, that is sooooo ten years ago.

BTW, can you point me to some evidence for this "flaw" in human nature?
I hear a lot about it from religious folk and from reading too many
elitist philosophers like Hobbes and Rousseau, but I've never actually
seen any concrete evidence.

Seems to me that it ain't humans that are flawed, it's the system they
live under, but maybe I've got it backwards...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Dying is a very dull, dreary affair.  My advice to you is to have
nothing whatever to do with it.
		-- W. Somerset Maughm, his last words
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 02:59:12 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:59:12 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: Message from "Sergey Semenyuk" <serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 39:38 EDT." <000701c38f4d$1908d990$0102a8c0-kSN9fd7a3UY@public.gmane.org> 
References: <000701c38f4d$1908d990$0102a8c0@winxp>
Message-ID: <20031011025913.4E03C4007@cbbrowne.com>

> Throw the drive away. I have three of them in the office (I guess the
> same ones you are talking about), and if you'll even manage to make it
> work with a different controller, I doubt it will live long. Well if you
> want to give it a try, let me know, and I'll give you all three of them
> (one even seems to be working from time to time). 

He only needs for it to work long enough to get some data off the drive,
assuming he can.

It would be absolute stupidity to then try and use the resulting
"kludged up" drive for 'production' purposes.

If the data is worth something, it may also be worth trying a data
recovery service like the guys that presented at TLUG a few months ago.
--
If this was helpful, <http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=cbbrowne> rate me
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/languages.html
"Much of this software was user-friendly, meaning that it was intended
for users who did not know anything about computers, and furthermore
had absolutely no intention whatsoever of learning."
-- A. S. Tanenbaum, "Modern Operating Systems, ch 1.2.4"
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 03:04:04 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:04:04 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010222831.12411c71.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F877324.4000503@truxtar.com>

As I have mentioned in my previous e-mail in this thread, Microsoft is 
simply following an immensely successful business strategy.  I 
completely agree with your accusations against their software, however 
lawsuits and insults are not what is needed to defeat the MS marketing 
machine.  (Fortunately) corporations can survive things like lawsuits 
better than individuals.  I will repeat again that the best way is 
education.  If we start forcefully changing Microsoft, not only will 
MS's accusations of 'communism' come true, but a lot of people will be 
very upset (face it, the best games are made for Microsoft systems 
[windows, xbox]).

JoeHill wrote:
> 
> If you follow the current trend, MS is working on making it impossible
> *not* to use their software, witness Palladium and their efforts to make
> MoBo manufacturers tie the BIOS to MS software. And the idea that MS
> gave the world computers is bunk, there would be a whole lot more
> plugged in people in this world if it were not for MS's *criminal
> behaviour* with respect to suppressing innovation and development. If
> anything, there are *fewer* useable computers in the world thanks to MS,
> since they've continually upped the hardware ante when it wasn't
> necessary, pushing perfectly useable machines into the junk heap.
> 

Can you PLEASE back up that paragraph with some facts.

Also, why don't you sue Mercedes for making their cars in such a way 
that only Mercedes headlights can be put in them.

> 
>>>And the only way to get their attention is to make Windows more
>>>difficult to use on the 'net, ie. find a way to identify the
>>>machines and shut them out.

Then you become no better than Microsoft.

> 
> 
> We won't be for long with that kind of complacent attitude.

You are right; it's already starting.


> This is not just going to work itself out, it's about time some people
> started messing up MS's bed.

And the way to do that is to educate people (and especially businesses) 
to switch to alternate operating systems and not buy Microsoft products. 
  This will hit them right in the pocket where it counts.  They will 
also see that people are *really* switching because of quality and will 
try to fix the situation.



-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 03:15:43 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:15:43 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F877324.4000503-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F877324.4000503@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20031010231543.1580c4b3.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:04:04 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> As I have mentioned in my previous e-mail in this thread, Microsoft is
> simply following an immensely successful business strategy.

The U.S. Justice Department seems to disagree with you, and they are not
exactly "unfriendly" to corporate monopolies. MS's "immensely successful
business strategy" was to unfairly and illegally shut out competitors.
They stole intellectual property. They broke the law. I don't know how
much more simply I can put it.

> I completely agree with your accusations against their software,
> however lawsuits and insults are not what is needed to defeat the MS
> marketing machine.  (Fortunately) corporations can survive things like
> lawsuits better than individuals.  I will repeat again that the best
> way is education.  If we start forcefully changing Microsoft, not only
> will MS's accusations of 'communism' come true, but a lot of people
> will be very upset (face it, the best games are made for Microsoft
> systems [windows, xbox]).

I'm can't even begin to explain how flawed that logic is...and I don't
give a rat's ass about games.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At the end of your life there'll be a good rest, and no further
activities
are scheduled.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 04:22:53 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:22:53 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031011002253.32170855.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 08:40:00 -0400
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> I already block all mail from Outlook unless it is from a known person
> or list, and there are ways to make websites inaccessible to IE (there
> must be, if there are ways to do the reverse), which I am going to look
> into.

   Read the HTML terrorist's handbook.  It has not been updated lately as far as I know, but it has lots of handy tips for monkeywrenching browsers.

   Set up your website with Wingdings as the default font.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 05:14:15 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 01:14:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010231543.1580c4b3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031010231543.1580c4b3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310110109580.26096-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

and it's so disappointing to see people cridit bill gates as the smartest, 
or one of the smartest people in computing, when much of microsoft's 
success was cridited to opportinity, greed, and eventually illegal 
business practices.


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 23:04:04 -0400
> Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > As I have mentioned in my previous e-mail in this thread, Microsoft is
> > simply following an immensely successful business strategy.
> 
> The U.S. Justice Department seems to disagree with you, and they are not
> exactly "unfriendly" to corporate monopolies. MS's "immensely successful
> business strategy" was to unfairly and illegally shut out competitors.
> They stole intellectual property. They broke the law. I don't know how
> much more simply I can put it.
> 
> > I completely agree with your accusations against their software,
> > however lawsuits and insults are not what is needed to defeat the MS
> > marketing machine.  (Fortunately) corporations can survive things like
> > lawsuits better than individuals.  I will repeat again that the best
> > way is education.  If we start forcefully changing Microsoft, not only
> > will MS's accusations of 'communism' come true, but a lot of people
> > will be very upset (face it, the best games are made for Microsoft
> > systems [windows, xbox]).
> 
> I'm can't even begin to explain how flawed that logic is...and I don't
> give a rat's ass about games.
> 
> 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 10:52:41 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 06:52:41 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031011002253.32170855.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031011002253.32170855.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20031011065241.14bdfaa8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:22:53 -0400
Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

>  Set up your website with Wingdings as the default font.

LOL! Thanks, I needed that right now...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The farther you go, the less you know.
		-- Lao Tsu, "Tao Te Ching"
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 11:05:23 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:05:23 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031011002253.32170855.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031011002253.32170855.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20031011070523.23259dd0.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 00:22:53 -0400
Howard Gibson <hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Read the HTML terrorist's handbook.  It has not been updated lately as
> far as I know, but it has lots of handy tips for monkeywrenching
> browsers.
> 
>    Set up your website with Wingdings as the default font.

Actually, I found a *really* easy way to accomplish what I wanted here:

http://www.devin.com/ieblock_howto.shtml

There are various methods, I used the PHP code to do it, a simple
redirect to a page which is very polite and I hope non-condescending.

In the end, my site gets less traffic than a dead end, so it's a mighty
small protest, but I guess you gotta start somewhere, no?

Here is the redirect if anyone has any suggestions:

www.orderinchaos.org/ie_reject.php

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
One learns to itch where one can scratch.
		-- Ernest Bramah
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 08:55:19 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:55:19 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010182306.GA395-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
 <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20031010182306.GA395@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111054510.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:40:00AM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> > But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with which
> > these people can compromise Windows software?
>
> No, unless we want to charge one fee for BMW and another fee for Buick.

? Car taxes are by model in most places.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 09:34:57 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:34:57 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111134200.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


and a second one (you seem to have network load problems up there)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:50:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
To: plp-o/urRXYcEDrkd/62UFvhDQ at public.gmane.org
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

This is the Postfix program at host lethe.ss.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

			The Postfix program

<tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>: Command time limit exceeded: "/u/majordomo/wrapper resend -l
    tlug -h ss.org tlug-real"
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Anti spam solutions
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 09:38:39 +0200 (IST)
Size: 2476
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/attachments/20031011/17bbe52d/attachment.mht>

From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 09:33:04 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:33:04 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111132010.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


lethe is in a bad mood again due to network timeouts. What was I writing
about viruses taking 50% of the bandwidth.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 07:50:34 -0400 (EDT)
From: Mail Delivery System <MAILER-DAEMON-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
To: plp-o/urRXYcEDrkd/62UFvhDQ at public.gmane.org
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender

This is the Postfix program at host lethe.ss.org.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that the message returned
below could not be delivered to one or more destinations.

For further assistance, please send mail to <postmaster>

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the message returned below.

			The Postfix program

<tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>: Command time limit exceeded: "/u/majordomo/wrapper resend -l
    tlug -h ss.org tlug-real"
-------------- next part --------------
An embedded message was scrubbed...
From: "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: BIOS does recognize 80GB drive-RH9
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 19:42:44 +0200 (IST)
Size: 1258
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/attachments/20031011/aa49c524/attachment.mht>

From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 09:25:15 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:25:15 +0200 (IST)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com> <3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com>
 <20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:42:28 -0400
> Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > Yes, thanks.
>
> No. I don't think you understood a single word he said. It has nothing
> whatsoever to do with Capitalism. Capital is no longer the primary means
> of production, therefore control of Capital is no longer an issue,
> control of information *is*. Yer still stuck in this whole Communist vs.
> Capitalist thang, that is sooooo ten years ago.

Control of information ? ;-) 'Free trading' capitalism vs. government
regulation and social services financing IS the issue in the
postindustrial world, where the free trading part means moving the
taxpaying and manufacturing part of a business as far away as possible
from where goods and services and infrastructure and labor are sold
expensively. And lately government has been cooperating in this game with
enthusiasm.

> BTW, can you point me to some evidence for this "flaw" in human nature?
> I hear a lot about it from religious folk and from reading too many
> elitist philosophers like Hobbes and Rousseau, but I've never actually
> seen any concrete evidence.

Look at the invention of trading, followed by speculation, followed by
memorable crashes. Very few people were involved and they caused enormous
misery in the 15th through 19th centuries. The last big crash was in the
1920's. After that serious regulation stepped in. There is a balance
between regulation and free trading. The balance is slipping because there
is a lot of offshore manufacturing going on. The regulating part is losing
ground because the moneymaking parts of their constituencies are massively
evading taxes by producing offshore and importing effectively without
duties. This shifts the taxpaying part of the equation into countries that
can suddenly afford to launch manned spacecraft. So the bad human nature
of a few will affect a lot of people.

Incidentally the communists fixed prices on everything and forbade
competition on a financial plane. Exactly the same as in the middle ages
where tampering with prices or scales or rulers could get you hanged
(prices were fixed for tens of years or longer at a stretch). It also
produced the same effect: black marketing and smuggling on staggering
scales, as well as evasion into other means of unregulated trade, like
futures and later derivatives.

> Seems to me that it ain't humans that are flawed, it's the system they
> live under, but maybe I've got it backwards...

This has been tried many times. Every time another system came up, failed,
and was blamed. Nobody blamed the part that survived the system changes:
the people. Human nature is something that needs to be reckoned with at
all times. Learning some history is the least one can do to avoid
repeating mistakes.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 08:53:49 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:53:49 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031010111018.35c21153.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
 <20031010111018.35c21153.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


> Agreed, this is exactly what the corporate warlords want, is to shut out
> the end-user from all attempts to modify content on the internet, and
> make it, as I and many others have described it many times, a "content
> delivery system", another version of TV.

I don't want that but I don't want the spam in a worse way than I don't
want that.

> Charging people per-mail is one step in that direction, and as Kareem
> rightly points out, is punishing the wrong people. The ability to
> send/upload/modify ought to be universal and free, if it is to work for
> good (ie. a community of equals, the only truly workable communicative
> structure) instead of evil (ie. an ideological and one-way stream of
> bullshit).

I do not see the connection. A postage stamp is 10 cents or so, if an
email would cost 2 cents, and you can get a bulk mailing license (say for
0.1 cents per) if and only if you run a nonprofit mailing list then what's
the problem ? You sent 10 emails a day, 30 days a month, = 20cents * 30
days = $6. You probably do not realise what spam means for people like me
who pay US$30+ per month for 56k modem access (and it never is 56k).

> As the Discordians say, true communication is only possible between
> equals, and if you start putting a premium on that communication, it
> becomes by definition unequal. It is already unequal enough, in that
> only a few million of us have the resources to go "online", let's not
> make it more so.

True communication involves the coordination of the talking and the
listening parties such that they change roles in accord with each other.
That means that they are not equal all the time, rather one is the
subordinate of the other one at any one time, and that they accept to
change roles in an orderly manner.

Spam is not communication, it is a form of undesirable noise for most
people. I do not want to limit communication, I want the noise down. Now.
I am aware that this has a price (money or otherwise). I want it down
because it uses 50% of my bandwidth (in theory spam costs me USD15 per
month, not including phone time and my own time required to deal with it).
I am willing to spend that much to make it stop. No, I will not invest in
a spam filter, I already have one. A spam filter at the receiver side only
reiforces the market in spam filters.

Some spam I receive advertises spam filters. I wonder if it lets the spam
filter advertisements through.

I am not trying to argue this is a good solution, but something must
happen soon.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 08:29:26 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:29:26 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031010070635.71c17e31.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090712590.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031010070635.71c17e31.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111018320.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Oct 2003 15:06:33 -0400
> William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> >
> > You pay your ISP, just like you're doing now.  Your ISP pays their ISP
> > (ie. Bell).  Even if you connect directly to recipient's machine, you
> > still have to go through your ISP, through telecom backbone, and then
> > through recipient's ISP.  They'll love it.  They'll charge you money,
> > and blame the "government" for making them do it.
>
> I just hate to think that someone is getting/paying more money because
> of some jackass who spam the 'net.

In theory the bandwidth usage should decrease (spam uses 50% of email
bandwidth right now in many places), and that should make the bandwidth
cheaper again after the market adjusts, and be reflected in internet
subscription prices. You could have almost 2x the bandwidth you have now
for the same price in say 1 year if this works out. Also the cost for
processing the spam will go down and the risk of getting a virus will go
down.

> I think I like the idea of hitting the spammer back where it really
> hurts, a la Paul Graham's FFB.

Lost me here.

> I *definitely* don't like the idea of incorporating anything like DRM
> into my software. All I have to know is who came up with the idea of DRM
> in the first place to know it's not for me ;-)

The same people who are interested in fingerprints and social security
numbers (and other types of id in other countries). Funny you're asking
that. Anyway would you like some bozo hacker to masquerade your name and
send 10,000 emails in your name to fbi.gov or some other place that might
react ? The latest viruses did things like this (sending mail in your name
and bouncing it off a server to the intended victim). Go prove you're not
really into pr0n spamming after a few months of this without drm.

In today's paranoid world it should be enough for someone to fake an email
exchange by you with some shady party to frame you in a lawsuit that will
keep you amused for a long time.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 11:28:01 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:28:01 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010182306.GA395-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031010182306.GA395@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031011072801.2461d087.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003 14:23:06 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> No, unless we want to charge one fee for BMW and another fee for
> Buick.

I'm not gettin' ya on this one, sorry. e'splanation?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you find a solution and become attached to it, the solution may
become
your next problem.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 11:43:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:43:15 -0400
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111132010.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111132010.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031011074315.6406466a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:33:04 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> What was I writing about viruses taking 50% of the bandwidth.

*Is* this why it sometimes takes me 2 - 3 minutes just to send an
e-mail? I realize Sympatico is not the best ISP (understatement of the
year), but it's getting to be a bit annoying...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The farther you go, the less you know.
		-- Lao Tsu, "Tao Te Ching"
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 11:49:28 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:49:28 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>
	<3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com>
	<20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031011074928.2922855b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:25:15 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> This has been tried many times. Every time another system came up,
> failed, and was blamed. Nobody blamed the part that survived the
> system changes:

The idea of a centralized authority. Look at this from the other
direction:

"Statism does have a certain appeal. The idea that we could select some 
people to form what they call a 'government' and make decisions for the 
rest of us is appealing because, if nothing else, it would mean we 
wouldn't have to spend so much time in boring meetings.  But of course 
it could never work for one simple reason: human nature. Most people are
hardly good enough to manage their own lives - how on earth could you 
find a group of people who were so good they could manage everyone
else's?"

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do what you can to prolong your life, in the hope that someday you'll
learn what it's for.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 11:54:23 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 07:54:23 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111018320.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081034140.20489@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310081830250.655@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031008174305.GA496@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310090712590.614@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031010070635.71c17e31.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111018320.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031011075423.5ee24df1.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:29:26 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> > I think I like the idea of hitting the spammer back where it really
> > hurts, a la Paul Graham's FFB.
> 
> Lost me here.

 http://www.paulgraham.com/ffb.html

> > I *definitely* don't like the idea of incorporating anything like
> > DRM into my software. All I have to know is who came up with the
> > idea of DRM in the first place to know it's not for me ;-)
> 
> The same people who are interested in fingerprints and social security
> numbers (and other types of id in other countries). Funny you're
> asking that. Anyway would you like some bozo hacker to masquerade your
> name and send 10,000 emails in your name to fbi.gov or some other
> place that might react ? The latest viruses did things like this
> (sending mail in your name and bouncing it off a server to the
> intended victim). Go prove you're not really into pr0n spamming after
> a few months of this without drm.
> 
> In today's paranoid world it should be enough for someone to fake an
> email exchange by you with some shady party to frame you in a lawsuit
> that will keep you amused for a long time.

Wouldn't simply making something like GPG keys an integral part of
e-mail clients take care of that?

DRM has nothing to do with protecting the little people, and everything
to do with giving more power and money to big people.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The longest part of the journey is said to be the passing of the gate.
		-- Marcus Terentius Varro
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 11:10:03 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:10:03 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20031011074315.6406466a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111132010.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031011074315.6406466a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111309250.1219@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:33:04 +0200 (IST)
> "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > What was I writing about viruses taking 50% of the bandwidth.
>
> *Is* this why it sometimes takes me 2 - 3 minutes just to send an
> e-mail? I realize Sympatico is not the best ISP (understatement of the
> year), but it's getting to be a bit annoying...

Could be. Lately the network is overloaded with spam in your parts of the
(pla)net.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 12:16:08 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 08:16:08 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
	<20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
	<20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
	<20031010111018.35c21153.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031011081608.010a9f84.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:53:49 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I don't want that but I don't want the spam in a worse way than I
> don't want that.

Sweet Lord Jesus, tell me you don't mean that! We're talking about
losing a really great opportunity for giving all people on this
godforsaken rock the ability to share their thoughts and ideas openly...

I agree something must be done about spam, but there are other sol'ns
that, IMO, are better than adding another layer of payment to the
scheme.

Like I mentioned elsewhere, everyone having a valid and encrypted
personal key in order to send e-mail, a *public key*, not the DRM sol'n
MS and Big Media wants to force down our throats. Make it impossible for
the spammer to hide their identity.

IPV6 holds some promise in this area as well, each and every network
user having a unique and traceable ID. This idea is discussed here:

http://fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances.
		-- Herodotus
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 12:15:46 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:15:46 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031011081608.010a9f84.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
 <20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com> <20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
 <20031010111018.35c21153.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031011081608.010a9f84.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111411280.2114@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:53:49 +0200 (IST)
> "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > I don't want that but I don't want the spam in a worse way than I
> > don't want that.
>
> Sweet Lord Jesus, tell me you don't mean that! We're talking about
> losing a really great opportunity for giving all people on this
> godforsaken rock the ability to share their thoughts and ideas openly...

Does that include China, whose 1 billion people's Internet access and
Email is censored or do we coopt them later ?

> I agree something must be done about spam, but there are other sol'ns
> that, IMO, are better than adding another layer of payment to the
> scheme.

I agree. I will take that amateur radio license exam eventually ;-). I am
also all for using only crypted mail for communication. No key, no
reading. Unfortunately I have computer-challenged relatives who will balk
at that.

> Like I mentioned elsewhere, everyone having a valid and encrypted
> personal key in order to send e-mail, a *public key*, not the DRM sol'n
> MS and Big Media wants to force down our throats. Make it impossible for
> the spammer to hide their identity.

Suits me fine. How do you intend to make them adopt it ?

> IPV6 holds some promise in this area as well, each and every network
> user having a unique and traceable ID. This idea is discussed here:
>
> http://fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/

That suits me too.

Peter
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 13:23:23 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:23:23 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111411280.2114-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
	<20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	<20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
	<20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
	<20031010111018.35c21153.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<20031011081608.010a9f84.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111411280.2114@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031011092323.2b1106f5.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:15:46 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Does that include China, whose 1 billion people's Internet access and
> Email is censored or do we coopt them later ?

Should include everybody. This whole process *hopefully* would
eventually make censorship impossible, since the encryption methods and
keys would be public and open. Authoritarianism is self-defeating
anyway:

http://www.jargon.net/jargonfile/s/SNAFUprinciple.html

> > I agree something must be done about spam, but there are other
> > sol'ns that, IMO, are better than adding another layer of payment to
> > the scheme.
> 
> I agree. I will take that amateur radio license exam eventually ;-). I
> am also all for using only crypted mail for communication. No key, no
> reading. Unfortunately I have computer-challenged relatives who will
> balk at that.

This is why the Public Key Encryption process needs to be streamlined to
the point that it is second nature, remember it was a big deal to get
those same people to even use e-mail, now it's just another part of
their daily lives.

> > Like I mentioned elsewhere, everyone having a valid and encrypted
> > personal key in order to send e-mail, a *public key*, not the DRM
> > sol'n MS and Big Media wants to force down our throats. Make it
> > impossible for the spammer to hide their identity.
> 
> Suits me fine. How do you intend to make them adopt it ?

They simply would have no choice, since, as you say, no key, no mail. I
must emphasize again though, this Key system needs to be *wholly public*
in nature, we have few enough public spaces left, the Internet should
not go the way of TV and Radio.

> > IPV6 holds some promise in this area as well, each and every network
> > user having a unique and traceable ID. This idea is discussed here:
> >
> > http://fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/
> 
> That suits me too.

I also don't mind giving up my anonymity *as long as it is fully equal
and universal*. Hiding in plain sight, as it were ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances.
		-- Herodotus
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 13:48:31 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:48:31 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
Message-ID: <Law14-F14NxnhAo88H200002a9d@hotmail.com>





-Hugh
_______________________________________________
Hugh Reilly
XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab
600 Bay Street, Suite 405
Toronto ON  M5R 1G6
tel: 416-204-9951
fax: 416-204-9723
email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
_______________________________________________
http://www.xen.ca  |  http://www.linuxlab.ca


>From: JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
>Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 22:51:03 -0400

>No. I don't think you understood a single word he said. It has nothing
>whatsoever to do with Capitalism. Capital is no longer the primary means
>of production, therefore control of Capital is no longer an issue,
>control of information *is*. Yer still stuck in this whole Communist vs.
>Capitalist thang, that is sooooo ten years ago.

I draw a distinction between capitalism and free enterprise. These things 
are not necessarily connected. Capitalism often requires the innovator to 
seek approval of the capitalist before innovation can happen. The Peter 
Principle being what it is, this aspect of capitalism puts a huge roadblock 
in the way of economic growth.

>BTW, can you point me to some evidence for this "flaw" in human nature?
>I hear a lot about it from religious folk and from reading too many
>elitist philosophers like Hobbes and Rousseau, but I've never actually
>seen any concrete evidence.
>
>Seems to me that it ain't humans that are flawed, it's the system they
>live under, but maybe I've got it backwards...

Well, humans are definitely flawed (at least, speaking for myself :), but 
having said that, lets acknowledge human nature and design our systems and 
institutions to make the most of it. Lots of our systems (including the 
money system) are functioning like improperly trimmed sails, and causing 
unnecessary suffering.

So the system is flawed. Let's fix it.




>Registered Linux user #282046
>Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>Dying is a very dull, dreary affair.  My advice to you is to have
>nothing whatever to do with it.
>		-- W. Somerset Maughm, his last words
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 14:18:24 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:18:24 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Law14-F14NxnhAo88H200002a9d-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F14NxnhAo88H200002a9d@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031011101824.48f78fe3.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 09:48:31 -0400
"Hugh Reilly" <hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I draw a distinction between capitalism and free enterprise. These
> things are not necessarily connected. 

Exactly, Capitalism tends toward monopoly, Free Enterprise doesn't
(necessarily). Even Adam Smith, the guy most Capitalists point to as
their philosophical God, warned:

 "neither the most acknowledged probity, nor the highest rank, nor the
greatest public services, protect [the legislator] from the most
infamous abuse and detraction, from personal insults, nor sometimes from
real danger arising from the insolent outrage of furious and
disappointed monopolists."

He even *agreed* with Marx that:

"...a free competitive economy was in the public interest so long as the
competing sellers and buyers were individual persons. . ."

(Understanding the Antitrust Laws, by Jerrold Van Cise)

What we have now is not Capitalism as Smith envisioned it at all, it is
Corporate Capitalism, something that would have him spinning in his
grave, I believe.

> Capitalism often requires the  innovator to seek approval of the
> capitalist before innovation can happen. The Peter Principle being
> what it is, this aspect of capitalism puts a huge roadblock in the way
> of economic growth.

There are many examples of this, too. One is the Internal Combustion
Engine, which was obsolete many decades ago, yet persists to this day
because no one can possibly compete with the massive locus of power
surrounding its producers. I'm not talking about a big conspiracy here,
though there may in fact be one, it's simple economics. The mfgrs of the
ICE have a vested interest in *preventing* innovation, and the Corporate
Power to do so. Again, don't blame the Corp, defined as the people who
run it, but the tendencies of the system for which they work. Ford isn't
evil, the owners of Ford aren't evil, the system that *pushes Ford to
keep producing crap* is evil.

One exception to this: Steve Ballmer *is* evil. ;-)

> >BTW, can you point me to some evidence for this "flaw" in human
> >nature? I hear a lot about it from religious folk and from reading
> >too many elitist philosophers like Hobbes and Rousseau, but I've
> >never actually seen any concrete evidence.
> >
> >Seems to me that it ain't humans that are flawed, it's the system
> >they live under, but maybe I've got it backwards...
> 
> Well, humans are definitely flawed (at least, speaking for myself :),
> but having said that, lets acknowledge human nature and design our
> systems and institutions to make the most of it. Lots of our systems
> (including the money system) are functioning like improperly trimmed
> sails, and causing unnecessary suffering.
> 
> So the system is flawed. Let's fix it.

This is exactly my point. Humans are humans. To say they are flawed
implies there is some objective quality to compare that nature to which
is *not* flawed. As one of my Uni Profs once described it, Human Nature
is a "black box", it cannot be known and therefore cannot be modified,
however it can be, as you say, accounted for.

Or, as Tim Leary said:

"The only thing we know about insanity is that some people claim other
people have it."

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life exists for no known purpose.
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 14:44:09 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:44:09 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F877324.4000503-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	 <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	 <20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <3F877324.4000503@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <1065883448.1174.759.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 23:04, Anton Markov wrote:
> As I have mentioned in my previous e-mail in this thread, Microsoft is 
> simply following an immensely successful business strategy.  I 
> completely agree with your accusations against their software, however 
> lawsuits and insults are not what is needed to defeat the MS marketing 
> machine.
Defeat Microsoft's marketing machine, no. If you think a company has
illegal business practices then lawsuits seem appropriate.

> (Fortunately) corporations can survive things like lawsuits 
> better than individuals.
That is not a fortunate thing! Individuals, *people* should by more able
to *survive*. Fortunately, corporations (the needs of many) seem to be
legally more protected than individuals. Unfortunately, law is currently
largely capitalistic.  The larger your wallet the easier it is to be
legally correct. A small company with one or a few "great inventions"
can be suffocated by a large immoral company.

> If we start forcefully changing Microsoft, not only will 
> MS's accusations of 'communism' come true, but a lot of people will be 
> very upset (face it, the best games are made for Microsoft systems 
> [windows, xbox]).
If Microsoft has (or had) illegal practices, the fact that good games
are available on its systems is not justification  ;-)

I agree with you Anton, education is important.  Availability of
software that is as "good" seems like a solution.


Cheers,
Lloyd

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 14:47:36 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:47:36 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	 <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <1065883655.1174.764.camel@localhost>

On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 12:38, Keith Mastin wrote:

> > But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with which
> > these people can compromise Windows software?
> 
> Why? Read the EULA. You are not forced to purchase, or to use the
> software. 
Actually, based on discussions here and everywhere, people do seem to be
forced to "purchase" MSWin.  *Once* those people have chosen many PC
retailers -- ie it seems absurdly difficult to get a refund for OEM
MSWin.

> There is no guarantee that [MSWin] will work. 
Just because it is written does not make it so... the validity of EULAs
appear to regularly be legally threatened/disputed, and the decisions go
both ways.  Depending on the legal implications you would have to  prove
that there was negligence, maliciousness, etc, and quantify the damages
incurred.

It does seem that the professional opinion is that MSWin needs to
(continue) be help accountable in areas like interoperability and
security.  How to hold them accountable is where the professional
opinions diverge.

Cheers,
Lloyd

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 14:55:19 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:55:19 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031011070523.23259dd0.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	 <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <20031011002253.32170855.hgibson@eol.ca>
	 <20031011070523.23259dd0.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1065884119.1174.771.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 07:05, JoeHill wrote:

> In the end, my site gets less traffic than a dead end, so it's a mighty
> small protest, but I guess you gotta start somewhere, no?

Err... what are protesting against again?  It seems you are punishing
users, and enlarging the technical divide.


> Here is the redirect if anyone has any suggestions:
> 
> www.orderinchaos.org/ie_reject.php
Is IE Explorer the origin of most of your concerns?  I do not see how
them installing Mozilla will help... 

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 14:55:32 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:55:32 -0400
Subject: X oddities under Debian
Message-ID: <20031011145532.GA3429@m433>

  This is the first email I'm sending out under Debian (hoorah).

  I usually want to run X at 1152x864.  For editing large images, I want
larger screens, and for streaming video 600x400 or 512x384 is optimum.
I don't like the slipping-and-sliding I get with using a 512x384
"viewport" in a 1600x1200 virtual window.  So I set up several files in
/etc/X11,  Besides the usual XF86Config-4, I have 1600XF86Config-4,
1152XF86Config-4, 512XF86Config-4, etc.  Each one has one modeline, and
is hardcoded to a specific resolution.  The webpage...
http://koala.ilog.fr/cgi-bin/nph-colas-modelines  (javascript required)
can help you generate all sorts of oddball modelines.

  One way to invoke the desired config is to manually type...

startx -- -nolisten tcp -xf86config 1600XF86Config-4

or whatever.  It gets painfull, so I I set up ~/bin/x like so...

#! /bin/bash
startx -- -nolisten tcp -xf86config ${1}XF86Config-4

  Under Redhat, I could simply type "x 1152" or "x 512" and X would
come up with the desired config.  With no parameters, the default
XF86Config-4 file would be used.  Under Debian, it complains that the
user is not authorized to run X when I invoke the script !!!  Manually
typing the whole command...

startx -- -nolisten tcp -xf86config 1600XF86Config-4

etc, works, but I was trying to get away from that.  The script works
if I "source" it (note the leading dot)

 x 1152

  That's better than typing the whole thing, but still has me curious.
Any ideas ?

  On a semi-related note, why does the config file have entries for both
"configured mouse" and "generic mouse" ?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 14:59:29 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:59:29 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <20031011101824.48f78fe3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F14NxnhAo88H200002a9d@hotmail.com>
	 <20031011101824.48f78fe3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1065884369.1170.775.camel@localhost>

On Sat, 2003-10-11 at 10:18, JoeHill wrote:

> Again, don't blame the Corp, defined as the people who
> run it, but the tendencies of the system for which they work. Ford isn't
> evil, the owners of Ford aren't evil, the system that *pushes Ford to
> keep producing crap* is evil.

You goal seems to be to change the system.  Whether you blame them or
not, you have to work to influence them to work outside the system.

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 15:04:16 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:04:16 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010182306.GA395-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20031010182306.GA395@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031011150416.GB3429@m433>

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 02:23:06PM -0400, William Park wrote
> On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 08:40:00AM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> > But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with which
> > these people can compromise Windows software?
> 
> No, unless we want to charge one fee for BMW and another fee for Buick.

  Which is *EXACTLY* what insurance companies do nowadays.  Your premium
depends in large part on how likely youe particular car is to get stolen.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 15:09:57 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:09:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031011110606.20469A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > make it, as I and many others have described it many times, a "content
> > delivery system", another version of TV.
> 
> I don't want that but I don't want the spam in a worse way than I don't
> want that.

"We had to destroy the Internet to save it."

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 15:23:31 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:23:31 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <1065884369.1170.775.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F14NxnhAo88H200002a9d@hotmail.com>
	<20031011101824.48f78fe3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1065884369.1170.775.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031011112331.730f46db.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:59:29 -0400
Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> You goal seems to be to change the system.  Whether you blame them or
> not, you have to work to influence them to work outside the system.

In the end, we're all part of the 'conspiracy' ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life is the childhood of our immortality.
		-- Goethe
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 14:46:53 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:46:53 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031011110606.20469A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031011110606.20469A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111645410.2114@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Henry Spencer wrote:

> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > make it, as I and many others have described it many times, a "content
> > > delivery system", another version of TV.
> >
> > I don't want that but I don't want the spam in a worse way than I don't
> > want that.
>
> "We had to destroy the Internet to save it."

>From itself.

Peter
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 15:45:02 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:45:02 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <1065884119.1174.771.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031011002253.32170855.hgibson@eol.ca>
	<20031011070523.23259dd0.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1065884119.1174.771.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031011114502.67a904c9.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 10:55:19 -0400
Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > In the end, my site gets less traffic than a dead end, so it's a
> > mighty small protest, but I guess you gotta start somewhere, no?
> 
> Err... what are protesting against again?  It seems you are punishing
> users, and enlarging the technical divide.
> 
It's a work in progress, and I'm still taking suggestions, as I say. I
don't see how I'm punishing users, as I am informing them exactly as to
how to access the site.

Of course, as in any act of protest, there is a sense of "polemic" that
cannot be extricated from the dialogue, and there will be those that
become yet more intransigent in their pro-MS ideology. That cannot be
avoided, and is all part of the idea of a "struggle".

I think I did do a fairly decent job of explaining, though, that I am
protesting the current modus of MS, in terms of security, business, and
overall  policy insofar as dominating the Internet and peripheral
industries, rather than pointing a finger at MS users.

> > Here is the redirect if anyone has any suggestions:
> > 
> > www.orderinchaos.org/ie_reject.php
> Is IE Explorer the origin of most of your concerns?  I do not see how
> them installing Mozilla will help... 

Not in particular, no. Of course IE is merely the "face" of Microsoft on
the Internet, and the identification of it is the means by which I hope
to get my message across. Perhaps I should reword the first paragraph to
make that more clear.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are no winners in life, only survivors.
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 15:47:36 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:47:36 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111645410.2114-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031011110606.20469A-100000@spsystems.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111645410.2114@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031011114736.7fcba162.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:46:53 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > > I don't want that but I don't want the spam in a worse way than I
> > > don't want that.
> >
> > "We had to destroy the Internet to save it."
> 
> From itself.

Aaaaaand the wheels on the bus go round and round, round and round, oh
the... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Depend on the rabbit's foot if you will, but remember, it didn't help
the rabbit.
		-- R.E. Shay
--
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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 17:17:10 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:17:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F877324.4000503-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F877324.4000503@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111313230.4605-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Anton Markov wrote:

> If we start forcefully changing Microsoft, not only will 
> MS's accusations of 'communism' come true, but a lot of people will be 
> very upset (face it, the best games are made for Microsoft systems 
> [windows, xbox]).
> 

Speaking of Xbox, one of my friends froze it about twice as we were 
playing it. I was surprised that we weren't greeted by the classic blue 
screen of death. 

All of the games are just backed up by Microsoft's fat wallet, and good
known developers.

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 17:29:05 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:29:05 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F872AF8.4010002-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F872AF8.4010002@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Fri, 10 Oct 2003, Anton Markov wrote:

> A few days ago my Computer Science teacher had me do a presentation on 
> Linux for the class (no bonus marks or anything).  I had some of my 
> classmates install and use Redhat.  They where surprised at how easy it 
> was to use.  At least two people in my class are now considering getting 
> Linux on their next computer.  They now know that there are options to 
> Windoss.  This 'lesson' part of the curriculum or anything.  That is the 
> power of education and knowledge rather than blind protests, complaints, 
> or regulations.

I would also pitch in saying that Linux is easier to install than Windows. 
I can make the comparison of Redhat 9.0 and Microsoft Windows 2000, from 
personal experience.

I guess the only way to tell would be to ask two regular computer users
who have about the same experience/knowledge, and get them to install both
operating systems, and then to tell you which OS they thought was easier 
to install.

I am still shuddering from an OpenBSD install. I guess they want to keep 
the weenies out, but get the geeks in on the fun. :o

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927


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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 17:38:52 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 13:38:52 -0400
Subject: tar backup to remote tape drive
In-Reply-To: <3F87322B.7050901-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F87322B.7050901@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F88402C.2030704@rogers.com>

On the off chance that anyone has been following this drama, it would 
appear I've got a solution; it uses the 'buffer' command. I also turned 
off compression as I've now opted to do it in hardware (and it was 
confusing me; I couldn't believe 2.4GB of data was being compressed into 
479MB, I thought something was screwing up!):

tar -cevf - / | ssh sheridan buffer -u 100 -B -t -p 75 -o /dev/nst0

Later,
B

p.s. Yes, the 'sheridan' hostname is a B5 reference. Best sci-fi show ever!

> Finally back to doing regular backups on my home boxen as should be
> done... but I have a question for y'all:
> Client is my OpenBSD 3.3 box, backing up to /dev/st0 on my SuSE 8.2 box,
> over 100Mb ethernet, using the BSD not GNU flavour of tar.
> If I use the following command string:
>     tar -czvf - / | ssh sheridan dd of=/dev/st0 bs=10240
> it fails due to to dd choking on /dev/st0 as an invalid parameter, and I
> get a broken pipe. However, if I use the following command string:
>     tar -czvf - / | ssh sheridan dd of=/dev/st0 obs=20b
> Everything goes swimmingly. What the frig?

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 18:58:17 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Sergey Semenyuk)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 14:58:17 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F49KP8nf9AisQH00004523@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <000a01c39029$a1e03470$0102a8c0@winxp>



-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Martin
Duclos
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:53 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Used hadrware computer store

Hi,

I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used 
harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that crashed
a 
while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match
to 
the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose it's worth a
couple of 
bucks just to try...

Martin

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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From dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 19:43:32 2003
From: dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg at public.gmane.org (Duncan MacGregor)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 15:43:32 -0400
Subject: Microsoft is doing their best. Is it good enough?
In-Reply-To: <1065884119.1174.771.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20031011070523.23259dd0.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1065884119.1174.771.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <200310111543.33562.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca>

I don't think we should  be so hard on Microsoft. Their software is the best 
that they can do. It is a reflection of their organization, their approach to 
software, and their business priorities.

They have built a company that can create software using very large teams, and
overarching issues like security must span those teams makes for ugly 
management problems.
They have a business model that markets software like an appliance based on 
ease of use, rather than safety. To be sucessful, they must sell their 
appliances as-is, and keep inner workings secret. This has been their 
priority, along with rapid growth.

To survive they must grow. This involves commoditizing hardware, getting their 
products shipped on all brand-new machines, connecting all the products 
together, and pushing customers into purchasing their products over and over 
again. If old products are insecure, then the new ones might be better...

After the fact, it is probably impossible to make the software secure, even if 
they wanted to. (Band-aids on broken limbs.) There are profound and expensive 
architectural issues in designing a secure system. "Ease of use" can survive 
on a weak structure, and after all, how does a lack of security affect their 
bottom line? 

Upward compatibility is an negative issue. 

Their software management model, their marketing model, and their business 
model avoid trading "ease of use" for security.  They are trapped.

Microsoft is doing their best.

The issue is not whether their products are good enough for them, but whether 
they are good enough for us. 


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 20:34:40 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:34:40 -0400
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20031011074315.6406466a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111132010.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031011074315.6406466a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310111634.40385.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 11 October 2003 07:43, JoeHill wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 11:33:04 +0200 (IST)
>
> "Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > What was I writing about viruses taking 50% of the bandwidth.
>
> *Is* this why it sometimes takes me 2 - 3 minutes just to send an
> e-mail? I realize Sympatico is not the best ISP (understatement of the
> year), but it's getting to be a bit annoying...

I doubt that Sympatico and lethe problems are related.  FWIW, I haven't 
noticed problems with Sympatico recently.

Speaking of wasted bandwidth.  Here's an interesting read:

    http://clue.denver.co.us/dns_threats-talk/threats_to_dns.pdf

They analysed all dns queries to one of the root servers (f.root-servers.net) 
over a 24 hour period.  More than 97% of the queries were unnecessary, 
including over 51 million dynamic dns updates (i.e. brain-dead Windows 
computers).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 20:55:51 2003
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:55:51 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
Message-ID: <SEA2-F32nHcWhlEqwdD0000d559@hotmail.com>

Thanks madison. If there's anything possible that can be done to recover the 
data... I do have a backup of the most important things but for other such 
as mp3s and such large files aren't very convenient to backup.

Martin


----Original Message Follows----
From: Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Used hadrware computer store
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 11:09:30 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
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FILETIME=[32AA76F0:01C38F94]

Hi,

   Normally I would recommend Above All but I am in the same boat... I have 
four or five dead Fujitsu's here and all have dead controller boards. I went 
there to try to find a replacement logic board and whatever they had has 
long ago been grabbed by others in the same boat.  I am pretty sure it is a 
single IC (voltage reg. for the motor controller, IIRC). With the latest 
dead drive being a friend of mine's with family photo's lost I may make it a 
priority to figure out how to repair the board itself. If I do, and if you 
would like, I would be happy to do yours as well (again, assuming I get it 
to work on my own).

Madison

Martin Duclos wrote:
>Hi,
>
>I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used 
>harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that crashed a 
>while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match  to 
>the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose it's worth a couple 
>of bucks just to try...
>
>Martin
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>
>--
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>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>


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_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 21:01:33 2003
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 17:01:33 -0400
Subject: Used hadrware computer store
Message-ID: <Sea2-F49qTq95Jx6lh40000d535@hotmail.com>

I'm not interested in making it live any longer than it takes to retrieve 
the data from it.

Throw the drive away. I have three of them in the office (I guess the
same ones you are talking about), and if you'll even manage to make it
work with a different controller, I doubt it will live long. Well if you
want to give it a try, let me know, and I'll give you all three of them
(one even seems to be working from time to time).

Sergey

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Martin
Duclos
Sent: Friday, October 10, 2003 9:53 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: Used hadrware computer store

Hi,

I am looking for computer stores around the GTA where I can find used
harware. More precicely, I have a Fidjitsu 20GB hard drive that crashed
a
while ago. I'm looking to find a hd controller that is an exact match
to
the one on my hd so I can restore the data. I suppose it's worth a
couple of
bucks just to try...

Martin

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

--
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_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*   
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 23:27:13 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:27:13 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031010164327.2642.qmail-G+hQb9WXD2eA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <20031010164327.2642.qmail@web21004.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031011232713.GA1524@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Oct 10, 2003 at 12:43:27PM -0400, Stephen wrote:
> Agreed, the only way is to get a handle on spam, is instead of trying
> to censure the spammers, go after the corporations that are paying the
> spammers to advertise on their behalf (with fines). It really is quite
> simple, no need to use Draconian measures at the ISP level. That's
> using a sledgehammer in place of a scapel...

It makes no difference.  It will trickle down.  Government/Bell charges
for every SMTP packet, and ISP charges you for every SMTP packet (plus
their markup), and etc.

> 
> Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> I do have a major problem with this. We're taking a technology that could
> enable everyone on the planet to collaborate together, and because of a

This is a bit commie thinking.  I wish Linux side would refrain from
this kind of things.

> few miscreants, we'll add a brick wall. The end result will be that
> corporations that can afford to pay the initial costs will be able to send
> just as much spam as before,

If corporation can pay for spams, fine.  If individual can pay for
spams, fine.  Exactly what's your point?

> but individuals who want to run a mailing
> list will be screwed. Have you noticed the amount of junk mail you get in
> your physical mailbox?

Yes I have, and I don't mind.  This is because the sender pays.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From phillip-/6JGXy0y6WMkn5nKnFR3Ls0R97HRMWuz at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 23:51:14 2003
From: phillip-/6JGXy0y6WMkn5nKnFR3Ls0R97HRMWuz at public.gmane.org (Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca))
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:51:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <3F87343C.1060501-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
        <3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>


Hello Mel, William,	Byron, Thomas, Joe, Colin, Ilya, Wil, Marc and Toni,

Many thanks to each of you for your interest, ideas and thoughts. Totally appreciated
and helpful ... especially to know that so many of you are interested in helping out
and that some of you are neighbors -- this "inter-web" think is just awesome, isn't it
  ;-)

Anyway, just a quick note this evening (apologies for the group response) to
acknowledge your emails and to say that it looks like the consensus is to hold a small
gathering -- perhaps at the lab -- to connect and kick around some ideas.

If there are specific dates/times that would work for you, please let me know.
Generally, the best day to visit the lab -- when it's not full of youngsters -- is
Saturday. Would that work for people? Perhaps we could explore a date in late October
or early November?

And, also, a few of you had some specific questions ...

Regarding case studies or examples, what I'm looking for are specific instances where
a school or learning environment have rolled out a mid-sized lab with only Linux or
related OS operating systems and software. I've got many case studies of OS in the
non-profit sector (that's my line of work) but not many in the education/learning
sector ... specifically where I could point to them and say "they did it and here's
how and let's give them a phone call and chat".

Typically, most non-profits I've worked with -- especially this one -- is not likely
to be interested in trailblazing or by too visionary. However, that being said, this
lab is one of the most professionally set-up I've ever seen -- good rack mount system,
good cabling, servers, etc. So, if there are examples of others who've done it first,
it would be great to know about.

Finally, one question that seems to keep coming up for me is how do you handle user
authentication and "roaming profiles" in this type of a set-up? I can think of a few
ways ... but I've never used Un*x in a true multi-user/desktop environment and wonder
how this is done easily? Kerberos? LDAP? Or just basic Un*x authentication?

Anyway, that's all for this weekend... again, thank you for your response and input.

Phillip.


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From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 00:45:21 2003
From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 20:45:21 -0400
Subject: Changing iptables rules
Message-ID: <3F88A421.3080707@iprimus.ca>

Hello all

I am working with a new distro (Mandrake 9.1) trying desperately to 
change the default iptables ruleset to allow ip_masquerade so my wife 
and daghter can simultaneously surf on a Win98 box attached to my small 
network. Are any of you aware of a URL which advises as to how to do 
this ?  On my Slackware 7.1 setup, my iptables rules consisted of 
perhaps five lines which enabled the ip_masquerade process, but the 
iptables rule set here is quite long. I was considering writing a script 
which I could enable at bootup which deleted all the generic iptables 
rules created by the Mandrake install, and then just add the five lines 
which I used to get ip_masq running on my old config.

Any suggestions would be appreciated

Clive

-- 

Clive DaSilva

Home Tel: 416-421-2480
Cell: 416-560-8820
Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org
Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel 2.4.20


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 01:03:24 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:03:24 -0400
Subject: Changing iptables rules
In-Reply-To: <3F88A421.3080707-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F88A421.3080707@iprimus.ca>
Message-ID: <20031012010324.GA1925@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 08:45:21PM -0400, Clive DaSilva wrote:
> Hello all
> 
> I am working with a new distro (Mandrake 9.1) trying desperately to 
> change the default iptables ruleset to allow ip_masquerade so my wife 
> and daghter can simultaneously surf on a Win98 box attached to my small 
> network. Are any of you aware of a URL which advises as to how to do 
> this ?  On my Slackware 7.1 setup, my iptables rules consisted of 
> perhaps five lines which enabled the ip_masquerade process, but the 
> iptables rule set here is quite long. I was considering writing a script 
> which I could enable at bootup which deleted all the generic iptables 
> rules created by the Mandrake install, and then just add the five lines 
> which I used to get ip_masq running on my old config.

Well, then, do that.  To flush 'filter' and 'nat' tables,
    /usr/sbin/iptables -F
    /usr/sbin/iptables -t nat -F 

man iptables

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 01:16:07 2003
From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:16:07 -0400
Subject: Changing iptables rules
In-Reply-To: <20031012010324.GA1925-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F88A421.3080707@iprimus.ca> <20031012010324.GA1925@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <3F88AB57.5030100@iprimus.ca>

Hello William

Thanks for your response. The simplest route is usually the best. I did 
take a look at the iptables manual as well as the latest iptables 
tutorial on freshmeat.net. It outlined some interesting scenarios using 
iptables-save and iptables-restore commands in a similar scenario. I 
guess that this will be my project for the long weekend.

Thanks once again

Clive


William Park wrote:

>On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 08:45:21PM -0400, Clive DaSilva wrote:
>  
>
>>Hello all
>>
>>I am working with a new distro (Mandrake 9.1) trying desperately to 
>>change the default iptables ruleset to allow ip_masquerade so my wife 
>>and daghter can simultaneously surf on a Win98 box attached to my small 
>>network. Are any of you aware of a URL which advises as to how to do 
>>this ?  On my Slackware 7.1 setup, my iptables rules consisted of 
>>perhaps five lines which enabled the ip_masquerade process, but the 
>>iptables rule set here is quite long. I was considering writing a script 
>>which I could enable at bootup which deleted all the generic iptables 
>>rules created by the Mandrake install, and then just add the five lines 
>>which I used to get ip_masq running on my old config.
>>    
>>
>
>Well, then, do that.  To flush 'filter' and 'nat' tables,
>    /usr/sbin/iptables -F
>    /usr/sbin/iptables -t nat -F 
>
>man iptables
>
>  
>


-- 
Clive DaSilva
Home Tel: 416-421-2480
Cell: 416-560-8820
Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org
Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel 2.4.20


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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 01:19:07 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:19:07 -0400
Subject: Changing iptables rules
In-Reply-To: <20031012010324.GA1925-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F88A421.3080707@iprimus.ca> <20031012010324.GA1925@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0310112115520.6525@qew.cs>

> > Hello all
> >
> > I am working with a new distro (Mandrake 9.1) trying desperately to
> > change the default iptables ruleset to allow ip_masquerade so my wife
> > and daghter can simultaneously surf on a Win98 box attached to my small
> > network. Are any of you aware of a URL which advises as to how to do
> > this ?  On my Slackware 7.1 setup, my iptables rules consisted of
> > perhaps five lines which enabled the ip_masquerade process, but the
> > iptables rule set here is quite long. I was considering writing a script
> > which I could enable at bootup which deleted all the generic iptables
> > rules created by the Mandrake install, and then just add the five lines
> > which I used to get ip_masq running on my old config.

Personally I just dump those distro tables and just use one from an
automated script generator.

visit http://www.freshmeat.net
and search for iptables script generator

Most of the generated scripts are decent.  You might want to browse
through some of the generated ones to see if it has some extra bits and
pieces that you care about.  In particular, you might want to find one
with rules that specifically block samba ports and prevent them from
leaking out of your internal network.

In general, all of them have some kind of masquerading/nat'ing option.

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 01:43:17 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 21:43:17 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031011232713.GA1524-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
	<20031010164327.2642.qmail@web21004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20031011232713.GA1524@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031011214317.1f8ab9f9.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:27:13 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > I do have a major problem with this. We're taking a technology that
> > could enable everyone on the planet to collaborate together, and
> > because of a
> 
> This is a bit commie thinking.  I wish Linux side would refrain from
> this kind of things.

What part of "enable everyone on the planet to collaborate together" is
communist, exactly?

And what is it with this anti-communist paranoia I'm seeing in evidence
on this list from certain members?

Open source, whether you like it or not, is about *sharing* and
*collaboration* and *community*.

If these things are too "commie" for you, you are running the *wrong*
OS... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Everything is possible.  Pass the word.
		-- Rita Mae Brown, "Six of One"
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 02:04:50 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:04:50 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031011214317.1f8ab9f9.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net> <20031010164327.2642.qmail@web21004.mail.yahoo.com> <20031011232713.GA1524@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031011214317.1f8ab9f9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031012020450.GA2247@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 09:43:17PM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> And what is it with this anti-communist paranoia I'm seeing in evidence
> on this list from certain members?
> 
> Open source, whether you like it or not, is about *sharing* and
> *collaboration* and *community*.

Yes.  But, what does that have to do with making SENDER to pay for the
cost of email?

Bitching about corporation (or people) having too much money does not
serve Linux market.  They have money because people give them money.
Instead, we should be asking "what can we do to make people give us the
money."

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 02:10:08 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:10:08 -0400
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031012020450.GA2247-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
	<20031010164327.2642.qmail@web21004.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20031011232713.GA1524@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031011214317.1f8ab9f9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031012020450.GA2247@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031011221008.77f84bcf.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:04:50 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Yes.  But, what does that have to do with making SENDER to pay for the
> cost of email?

I think we went over that already, but I'll spell it out for you again:

1. You are punishing the wrong person. The spammer should pay, not his
victims.

2. Adding another layer of cost to communication over the internet
merely serves to shut even more people out of the benefits which lie
therein.

> Bitching about corporation (or people) having too much money does not
> serve Linux market.  They have money because people give them money.
> Instead, we should be asking "what can we do to make people give us
> the money."

Watch your tone, bud. I never "bitched" about anybody having too much
money. Nor, I believe did Kareem.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nasrudin walked into a teahouse and declaimed, "The moon is more useful
than the sun."
	"Why?", he was asked.
	"Because at night we need the light more."
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 02:41:47 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 22:41:47 -0400
Subject: Changing iptables rules
In-Reply-To: <3F88AB57.5030100-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F88A421.3080707@iprimus.ca> <20031012010324.GA1925@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F88AB57.5030100@iprimus.ca>
Message-ID: <200310112241.47014.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 11 October 2003 21:16, Clive DaSilva wrote:

> Thanks for your response. The simplest route is usually the best. I did
> take a look at the iptables manual as well as the latest iptables
> tutorial on freshmeat.net. It outlined some interesting scenarios using
> iptables-save and iptables-restore commands in a similar scenario. I
> guess that this will be my project for the long weekend.

Check out shorewall, it can handle from the simplest networks to very complex 
ones.  http://www.shorewall.net/

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 05:26:52 2003
From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:26:52 -0400
Subject: Changing iptables rules
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0310112115520.6525-r6DfCzWkvDI@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F88A421.3080707@iprimus.ca> <20031012010324.GA1925@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.GSO.4.58.0310112115520.6525@qew.cs>
Message-ID: <3F88E61C.4090907@iprimus.ca>

Hello Jing

Thanks for your comments. Interesting suggestion ;)
I'll take a look at freshmeat.net

Thanks

Clive


Jing Su wrote:

>>>Hello all
>>>
>>>I am working with a new distro (Mandrake 9.1) trying desperately to
>>>change the default iptables ruleset to allow ip_masquerade so my wife
>>>and daghter can simultaneously surf on a Win98 box attached to my small
>>>network. Are any of you aware of a URL which advises as to how to do
>>>this ?  On my Slackware 7.1 setup, my iptables rules consisted of
>>>perhaps five lines which enabled the ip_masquerade process, but the
>>>iptables rule set here is quite long. I was considering writing a script
>>>which I could enable at bootup which deleted all the generic iptables
>>>rules created by the Mandrake install, and then just add the five lines
>>>which I used to get ip_masq running on my old config.
>>>      
>>>
>
>Personally I just dump those distro tables and just use one from an
>automated script generator.
>
>visit http://www.freshmeat.net
>and search for iptables script generator
>
>Most of the generated scripts are decent.  You might want to browse
>through some of the generated ones to see if it has some extra bits and
>pieces that you care about.  In particular, you might want to find one
>with rules that specifically block samba ports and prevent them from
>leaking out of your internal network.
>
>In general, all of them have some kind of masquerading/nat'ing option.
>
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
>  
>


-- 
Clive DaSilva
Home Tel: 416-421-2480
Cell: 416-560-8820
Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org
Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel 2.4.20


--
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From cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 05:30:21 2003
From: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Clive DaSilva)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 01:30:21 -0400
Subject: Changing iptables rules
In-Reply-To: <200310112241.47014.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F88A421.3080707@iprimus.ca> <20031012010324.GA1925@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F88AB57.5030100@iprimus.ca> <200310112241.47014.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F88E6ED.7040802@iprimus.ca>

Hello Fraser

Thank you. Another good lead to check out. I know there is some 
software/scripts from shorewall.net in my setup.
I'll check out the website

Thanks

Clive



Fraser Campbell wrote:

>On Saturday 11 October 2003 21:16, Clive DaSilva wrote:
>
>  
>
>>Thanks for your response. The simplest route is usually the best. I did
>>take a look at the iptables manual as well as the latest iptables
>>tutorial on freshmeat.net. It outlined some interesting scenarios using
>>iptables-save and iptables-restore commands in a similar scenario. I
>>guess that this will be my project for the long weekend.
>>    
>>
>
>Check out shorewall, it can handle from the simplest networks to very complex 
>ones.  http://www.shorewall.net/
>
>  
>


-- 
Clive DaSilva
Home Tel: 416-421-2480
Cell: 416-560-8820
Email: cdasilva-q6EoVN9bke6w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org
Mandrake Linux 9.1 Kernel 2.4.20


--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 06:47:56 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 02:47:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F872AF8.4010002@truxtar.com>
    <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <3344.216.138.194.32.1065941276.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Teodor Iliescu">
<snip>
>
> I am still shuddering from an OpenBSD install. I guess they want to keep
> the weenies out, but get the geeks in on the fun. :o

Have you seen the FreeBSD install lately? I couldn't believe how fast I
was configuring the system after the initial fdisk... less than 20
minutes.  :)

There was a distro out a few years back as an offshoot of redhat-6.2
called KRUD. Secured out of the box like OpenBSD, had to be a guru to do
anything. I loved/hated it, learned a lot from that little distro.

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 07:29:53 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:29:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <1065883655.1174.764.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <1065883655.1174.764.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3392.216.138.194.32.1065943793.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Lloyd D Budd">
> On Fri, 2003-10-10 at 12:38, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> > But shouldn't MS be held responsible for the ridiculous ease with
>> which these people can compromise Windows software?
>>
>> Why? Read the EULA. You are not forced to purchase, or to use the
>> software.
> Actually, based on discussions here and everywhere, people do seem to be
> forced to "purchase" MSWin.  *Once* those people have chosen many PC
> retailers -- ie it seems absurdly difficult to get a refund for OEM
> MSWin.

No, they are not. They are required to purchase M$ if they buy an
off-the-shelf name brand box, but that is not the only option. I build
whiteboxen, and I gotta tell ya that 90% of all the residential desktops
get a copy of M$ installed as a part of the deal. I don't have an OEM
license, so the customer pays the full nut if thats what they want (I do
make a subtle advisement against it).

M$ is deeply ingrained into out society. Get used to it. The situation
isn't likely to change until there's a viable and reasonably secured
desktop-ready version of linux (lindoh$ is just as junky as M$
security-wise) ready to roll with a big corporate name behind it. Will it
sell? Yes, if the profit margin at the retail end is better than for M$
-outfitted system (M$ had a LOT of room to maneuver price-wise) AND
there's a strong commercial-strength telephone and Internet support
available.

M$ has it all over on *nix as far as the gui goes... I understand that
everything is compiled directly into their kernel for speed and
integration. Makes for a huge monlithic kernel, but IE and the desktop are
fast and smooth as silk compared to X.

Another thing that would help the linux world, and I haven't heard too
much noise about it, is a gui interface for writting code like they have
in VB. Get all those scrip-kiddies busy learning how to break into a real
OS. :)

>> There is no guarantee that [MSWin] will work.
> Just because it is written does not make it so... the validity of EULAs
> appear to regularly be legally threatened/disputed, and the decisions go
> both ways.  Depending on the legal implications you would have to  prove
> that there was negligence, maliciousness, etc, and quantify the damages
> incurred.

That happened a little while back... umm... IIRC it was related to
properly securing all the information that users were storing on MSN, but
it could have gone deeper than that.

> It does seem that the professional opinion is that MSWin needs to
> (continue) be help accountable in areas like interoperability and
> security.  How to hold them accountable is where the professional
> opinions diverge.

M$ is a big money maker industry-wide, and not just for themselves. Most
of my computer services revenue is from malware disinfection and OS
re-installation after crashes or hax. Another big request is replacing
those broken windoh$ network servers with stuff that works.

Now get this... I can replace a windoh$ network server with *nix and never
have another problem with it. The only revenue that comes in after that is
maintenance or upgrades. If I put windoh$ on the box, it will definately
come back to fix something, probably sooner than later, generating revenue
indefinately.

What I cannot seem to do is stop making attempts to put *nix on every
machine I run into when I know if I put windoh$ on all of them I'de soon
be a rich man. :\

Cheers y'all...

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 07:40:56 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:40:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft><20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
    <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net><200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
    <20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net><56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net><20031010111018.35c21153.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3436.216.138.194.32.1065944456.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Peter L. Peres">
>
>> Charging people per-mail is one step in that direction, and as Kareem

...this list would be sooo quiet...

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 07:58:40 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:58:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>
    <3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com><20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3451.216.138.194.32.1065945520.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Peter L. Peres">
>> No. I don't think you understood a single word he said. It has nothing
>> whatsoever to do with Capitalism. Capital is no longer the primary means
>> of production, therefore control of Capital is no longer an issue,
>> control of information *is*. Yer still stuck in this whole Communist vs.
>> Capitalist thang, that is sooooo ten years ago.

I can see that. Control of Information = Control of Capital and
Populations. Dissemination of (censored) information in the form of
distribution (esp. in previously un-exploited markets - the fact that the
3rd world is pretty big is handy) of advertising creates local false
wealth and global recognition of control over populations. We were taught
it would happen in school and here it is, all around us.

The censorship is global. Some governments are outright blatent about it,
others that pretend to 'grant' 'rights' and 'freedoms' are sneakier.
Ultimately, the real power is in the hands of those who have control over
deciding just what information to disseminate, which has been the press
traditionally. We see how much the Internet challenges that fact, we have
yet to see what the adjustments will be.

The problem with communism is... who would police the whole damn thing?
That's what I wanna know. :)

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 08:08:23 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 04:08:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Undelivered Mail Returned to Sender (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111134200.530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111134200.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3464.216.138.194.32.1065946103.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Peter L. Peres">
>
> and a second one (you seem to have network load problems up there)

ss.org is on the nexxia backbone. They have lousy routing, many nodes
resolving only to IP. Between that and Bell's idea that DNS doesn't need
to work ALL the time... it does cause timeouts

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 10:44:59 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:44:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031010222831.12411c71.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca><18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca><20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca><21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3616.216.138.194.32.1065955499.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="JoeHill">
<snip>
> We won't be for long with that kind of complacent attitude. MS is intent
> on making Linux, OSS, and the GPL for all intents and purposes illegal.
> Witness their latest proxy attack using SCO, calling OSS "communist",
> getting into bed with Bush and Ashcroft to make sure all us "hackers"
> are kept in line.

Doesn't matter now. All they can really control is the US dominated
market. It's not enough to keep the tiger in the cage. M$ is doomed to
change.

>> > I already block all mail from Outlook unless it is from a known
>> > person or list, and there are ways to make websites inaccessible to
>> > IE (there must be, if there are ways to do the reverse), which I am
>> > going to look into.
>>
>> You are moving up your leg from shooting yourself in the foot. Don't
>> aim too high. :)
>
> Why is that? 99% of the spam I get is from Outhouse. IE is a known
> propagator of malicious code, in fact it's so easy to do that all you
> have to do is load a properly mined web page to infect your system, and

Something like 85% of the world is using M$ on the desktop, most of them
with default settings. If you lock them out of your site, the recursive
hits will reflect how big the impact is. You will have no impact on the
effectiveness of the spammers. Better to make an offer to teach people how
to secure a windows box and throw linux at them as a viable alternative.

> the latest MS patch for this vulnerability doesn't even work, MS says
> "they're working on it...". Why would I want to encourage people to use
> such a thing? Have you checked your Apache logs lately? Do you ever run
> snort or ethereal? Infected Windows crap is eating up bandwidth like

I run an IDS on my home network all the time, and just my firewall logs
are horrendous on the co-lo'd servers. I know what you mean, but you also
have to remember that broadcasting is the nature of ethernet. It
*_seemed_* like a good idea at the time.

I'm gonna put that greylisting thing that Fraser posted into effect on my
mailserver soon. If I can drop 90% of email bandwidth from coming in the
gate I'll be happy. I already use enough bandwidth as it is. I also run a
secure mailserver that makes it impossible to spam anyone more than 50
messages at a time, and I get notified when that happens. And the webmail
system blocks all executable attachements and scans for viruses, so I'm
pretty much satisfied that I'm not a part of the problem.

> there's no tomorrow, and I'm supposed to put up with this? It takes me 3
> minutes to send an e-mail sometimes because my ISP is so overloaded with
> pondscum emanating from compromised XP boxes.

Your ISP owns the physical layer locally. They have the $$ to put a couple
big Sun boxes in with postfix to relay the mail. Talk to them.

> This is not just going to work itself out, it's about time some people
> started messing up MS's bed.

You are dangerously approaching cyber-terrorism. Our fix is proactiveley
using education and community support to combat M$ism. If we resort to the
same tactics as those we would prefer to see shut down, what does that
make us?

We complain when the government makes a document available only in M$ word
format. If we complain to the right people, we might actually accomplish
something.

-- 
Keith
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 10:08:57 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:08:57 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <3451.216.138.194.32.1065945520.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>
	<3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com>
	<20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<3451.216.138.194.32.1065945520.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:58:40 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I can see that. Control of Information = Control of Capital and
> Populations. Dissemination of (censored) information in the form of
> distribution (esp. in previously un-exploited markets - the fact that
> the 3rd world is pretty big is handy) of advertising creates local
> false wealth and global recognition of control over populations. We
> were taught it would happen in school and here it is, all around us.
> 
> The censorship is global. Some governments are outright blatent about
> it, others that pretend to 'grant' 'rights' and 'freedoms' are
> sneakier. Ultimately, the real power is in the hands of those who have
> control over deciding just what information to disseminate, which has
> been the press traditionally. We see how much the Internet challenges
> that fact, we have yet to see what the adjustments will be.

Absolutely, the 'Net is really the biggest challenge to traditional
authority since the printing press, and even more of a threat to
personal liberty (of *thought*) in the wrong hands. The ol' doube edged
sword thingy again...

I wrote a paper on this in Uni, now it's my manifesto, you can read it
on my site. I got an A minus, and some very nice comments from the prof,
lemme know what you think.

> The problem with communism is... who would police the whole damn
> thing? That's what I wanna know. :)

Weeeelll, it depends on how you define communism, of course. Soviet
style communism doesn't work any more than Corporate Capitalism does,
for reasons I outline in my manifesto.

The only viable social system, in the long run, is more anarchist in
nature, maybe we could call it Chomskyism ;-)

*He* actually calls it "Anarcho-Syndicalism", a highly decentralized and
directly democratic "government" that is truly 'of the people, for the
people, and by the people'.

You really ought to read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United
States". He provides several case studies which support the thesis that,
left alone by authority, people do *not* revert to a Lord-of-the-Flies
type existence, but in fact automagically build their own stable,
cohesive, and democratic communities.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do not seek death; death will find you.  But seek the road which makes
death
a fulfillment.
		-- Dag Hammarskjold
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 11:54:52 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:54:52 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3616.216.138.194.32.1065955499.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3616.216.138.194.32.1065955499.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031012075452.1581cfc8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 06:44:59 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Something like 85% of the world is using M$ on the desktop, most of
> them with default settings. If you lock them out of your site, the
> recursive hits will reflect how big the impact is. You will have no
> impact on the effectiveness of the spammers. Better to make an offer
> to teach people how to secure a windows box and throw linux at them as
> a viable alternative.

Well, this is what I am aiming for, though obviously not in the manner
you see as most effective. All I'm saying is, "if you want to
communicate with me, here is how you can do that."

> > the latest MS patch for this vulnerability doesn't even work, MS
> > says"they're working on it...". Why would I want to encourage people
> > to use such a thing? Have you checked your Apache logs lately? Do
> > you ever run snort or ethereal? Infected Windows crap is eating up
> > bandwidth like
> 
> I run an IDS on my home network all the time, and just my firewall
> logs are horrendous on the co-lo'd servers. I know what you mean, but
> you also have to remember that broadcasting is the nature of ethernet.
> It*_seemed_* like a good idea at the time.
> 
and I think it's still a good idea, it's just that *some people* have
taken that nature and abused it or used it improperly. As I say, all I'm
trying to do is let people know who the real culprit is, the one that
lets spammers hide their identities, allows malicious code to spread,
etc.
 
> > there's no tomorrow, and I'm supposed to put up with this? It takes
> > me 3 minutes to send an e-mail sometimes because my ISP is so
> > overloaded with pondscum emanating from compromised XP boxes.
> 
> Your ISP owns the physical layer locally. They have the $$ to put a
> couple big Sun boxes in with postfix to relay the mail. Talk to them.

ROTLMAO! oh, wait, yer serious...;-) I think this is where "voting with
your wallet" comes in, I don't think Sympatico, like MS, will seriously
wake up until they see their bottom line dropping like a stone.

> > This is not just going to work itself out, it's about time some
> > people started messing up MS's bed.
> 
> You are dangerously approaching cyber-terrorism. Our fix is
> proactiveley using education and community support to combat M$ism. If
> we resort to the same tactics as those we would prefer to see shut
> down, what does that make us?

I don't want to launch a DOS attack or anything, I just want the
education to be more difficult to ignore, more "in your face", but I
have made it as polite and inoffensive as humanly possible.

> We complain when the government makes a document available only in M$
> word format. If we complain to the right people, we might actually
> accomplish something.

No argument there! I send e-mails every chance I get to everyone who has
an address when the need arises, you can bet on that. I even sent one to
the NDP to ask if they could please send me their newsletter in *non*
HTML format :-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When you die, you lose a very important part of your life.
		-- Brooke Shields
--
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From ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 12:04:44 2003
From: ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Adams)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 08:04:44 -0400
Subject: Net Integrator Appliance
Message-ID: <200310120804.44092.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>

Hi all.
A customer just ordered one of these Mach 1 units, and on the whole, its a 
nice unit. We were wondering if anybody had used one, and managed to do an 
inhouse upgrade, by moving the boot files from the flash ram and combining 
them with the rest of the OS onto new scsi drives for Raid 5. And info would 
be appreciated.

TIA
Scott
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 11:59:12 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 07:59:12 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3392.216.138.194.32.1065943793.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<1065883655.1174.764.camel@localhost>
	<3392.216.138.194.32.1065943793.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031012075912.1e4f85e8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 03:29:53 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> M$ has it all over on *nix as far as the gui goes... I understand that
> everything is compiled directly into their kernel for speed and
> integration. Makes for a huge monlithic kernel, but IE and the desktop
> are fast and smooth as silk compared to X.
> 
> Another thing that would help the linux world, and I haven't heard too
> much noise about it, is a gui interface for writting code like they
> have in VB. Get all those scrip-kiddies busy learning how to break
> into a real OS. :)

I read a while back that there was some work going on with something
called "Y" (real creative naming, ya?) which would replace the rapidly
aging and decrepit (but still fun!) X.

IIRC, it was proposed in the manner you suggest, easily programmed using
an object-oriented base, and an easy-to-use toolkit a la GTK, but at a
lower level of course. I would hope, though, that the GUI is never made
part of the kernel...having it run as a server has definite advantages
over the alternative, even beyond the security factor. Mmmmm, thiiiin
clients...droooool.

I have more problems with *sound* than with GUI though.

Must...get...newer...kernel...rid...self...of...OSS...forever... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Your wig steers the gig.
		-- Lord Buckley
--
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 16:43:29 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 12:43:29 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310121243.29505.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 12 October 2003 08:42, you wrote:

> I'm getting spam from the list.  I'm sending this to
> tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org which should not work if the list is setup
> securely.  If this is received by list members, then majordomo on
> lethe.ss.org needs to be fixed.

Hi Ralph,

The ss.org servers seem to be a bit of a mess, a while ago I noticed that the 
DNS was completely screwed up with 3 of the 4 nameservers hosting old copies 
of the zone ... 2 or 3 emails to various addresses (including the list) and 
that silently was fixed.

The MX record for tlug.ss.org is still screwed up (secondary mx of ns.ss.org 
does not accept for tlug.ss.org).  Most people seem to use tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org as 
opposed to tlug-HcP7FbCj2GFAfugRpC6u6w at public.gmane.org but still the publicly advertised address (see 
http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml) suggests @tlug.ss.org (at least for 
subscription).

There also seem to be severe connectivity issues with lethe.ss.org.  Severe 
enough that email has been bounced back to me after 4 days of inability to 
connect.  These connectivity issues might be the fault of Sympatico but still 
I would think that is a significant enough population for someone at ss.org 
to care.

You posted about this problem well over a month ago as far as I recall and 
suggested a sendmail fix, since ss.org uses postfix I immediately followed up 
with the recommended fix within postfix.  I'm not sure who runs the list 
really, or if anyone at ss.org is interested in these issues ... it certainly 
appears to me that they are not.  If help is needed in debugging/fixing these 
issues I am more than willing to donate some time.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 17:39:21 2003
From: ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Adams)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 13:39:21 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <200310121243.29505.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com> <200310121243.29505.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310121339.21147.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>

yea i think we all got that email from Ralph	
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 11 17:58:22 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 11 Oct 2003 19:58:22 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111956160.2114@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Teodor Iliescu wrote:

> I am still shuddering from an OpenBSD install. I guess they want to keep
> the weenies out, but get the geeks in on the fun. :o

Not true. In OpenBSD you just do it step by step and it works first time.
Just DON'T EVER LOSE THE ROOT PASSWORD or you'll need to reinstall. These
guys are serious about security.

Peter
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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:22:34 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:22:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3344.216.138.194.32.1065941276.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3344.216.138.194.32.1065941276.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310121413500.4506-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> Have you seen the FreeBSD install lately? I couldn't believe how fast I
> was configuring the system after the initial fdisk... less than 20
> minutes.  :)
> 
> There was a distro out a few years back as an offshoot of redhat-6.2
> called KRUD. Secured out of the box like OpenBSD, had to be a guru to do
> anything. I loved/hated it, learned a lot from that little distro.

Actually out of the three BSDs, I didn't install FreeBSD. I was surprised
that when I dropped by my high school to give a presentation to the high
school students about Seneca's programs, Linux, etc, two of the computer
science groups were presenting Redhat Linux 9.0, and the other one
FreeBSD.  Man, was I impressed.

The teacher still credits me for being the first one to install Linux
(Redhat 6.2 at the time) in the school. Although I have followers now. He
was nice enough to let me clean one of the partitions, so I could have
installed Linux on it. I set up the computer as a dual boot system. >;o

I didn't hear about KRUD, but I remember looking at this "Securing Redhat 
6.2" document, which was about 300-400 pages, so I can imagine those guys 
put a lot of work on it.

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:17:03 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:17:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Net Integrator Appliance
In-Reply-To: <200310120804.44092.ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310120804.44092.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3887.216.138.194.32.1065982623.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Scott Adams">
> Hi all.
> A customer just ordered one of these Mach 1 units, and on the whole, its
> a nice unit. We were wondering if anybody had used one, and managed to
> do an inhouse upgrade, by moving the boot files from the flash ram and
> combining them with the rest of the OS onto new scsi drives for Raid 5.
> And info would be appreciated.

Watch your warranty with that if you plan on doing anything under the hood
yourself. The whole point of Net Integration is customer entrapment. IMHO
you would be better off to get a copy of esmith or clark connect and RAID5
that. In moving evrything over to a scsi drive from ROM you lose the
secured aspect of the OS.

-- 
Keith
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:40:27 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. to lock out...)
In-Reply-To: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:
> You really ought to read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United
> States". He provides several case studies which support the thesis that,
> left alone by authority, people do *not* revert to a Lord-of-the-Flies
> type existence, but in fact automagically build their own stable,
> cohesive, and democratic communities.

In general (there are exceptions), people left alone do self-organize into
communities.  But claiming that those are automatically stable, cohesive,
and democratic is pushing it pretty hard.  Instability, factions, and
fragmentation are common.  And initially-democratic organizations show a
strong tendency to turn feudal, with the leader-by-common-consent turning
into a permanent lord, unless a particularly thoughtful leader or lucky
early history makes people codify *rules* that protect dissent and ensure
access to the political process.

Also, purely democratic communities can be viciously oppressive toward
minorities and disenfranchised groups.  Kings wonder whether the people
are behind them; an elected leader knows they are.

People make a lot of noise about how wonderful democracy is, but in fact
the West's key innovations were constitutional government and separation
of powers, not democracy.  Democracies can go bad as easily as any other
form of government; Hitler came to power by being elected.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:49:45 2003
From: ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Adams)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:49:45 -0400
Subject: Net Integrator Appliance
In-Reply-To: <3887.216.138.194.32.1065982623.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310120804.44092.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org> <3887.216.138.194.32.1065982623.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <200310121449.45018.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>

Hi Keith,
Thats wat i was thinking myself, but they seem hell bent on this unit. I 
already put the ROM chip in a new computer and experimented with it using 
larger ide drives, but im worried some of the custom stuff might be 
copywrited, and their idea of cloning it to 2 or more machines doesnt seem 
right to me.

Scott

On October 12, 2003 2:17 pm, Keith Mastin wrote:
> Watch your warranty with that if you plan on doing anything under the hood
> yourself. The whole point of Net Integration is customer entrapment. IMHO
> you would be better off to get a copy of esmith or clark connect and RAID5
> that. In moving evrything over to a scsi drive from ROM you lose the
> secured aspect of the OS.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:37:16 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:37:16 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <3436.216.138.194.32.1065944456.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A92C2@lynchmail.lynch.msft><20031009183750.GA9258@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
    <20031009190633.GA1104@node1.opengeometry.net><200310091729.05518.cmb@fivefortyfour.com>
    <20031009221008.GA697@node1.opengeometry.net><56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net><20031010111018.35c21153.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111043060.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <3436.216.138.194.32.1065944456.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122036470.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> <quote who="Peter L. Peres">
> >
> >> Charging people per-mail is one step in that direction, and as Kareem
>
> ...this list would be sooo quiet...

Hey I did not write that.

Peter
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:29:41 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:29:41 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Anti spam solutions
In-Reply-To: <20031012020450.GA2247-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <56475.199.64.0.252.1065794395.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
 <20031010164327.2642.qmail@web21004.mail.yahoo.com>
 <20031011232713.GA1524@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031011214317.1f8ab9f9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <20031012020450.GA2247@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122028530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 09:43:17PM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> > And what is it with this anti-communist paranoia I'm seeing in evidence
> > on this list from certain members?
> >
> > Open source, whether you like it or not, is about *sharing* and
> > *collaboration* and *community*.
>
> Yes.  But, what does that have to do with making SENDER to pay for the
> cost of email?

Incidentally Open Source publishers do pay for their works, even if it's
the time on the phone to upload and maintain packages (not counting what
that time would be worth to the man).

Peter
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:25:24 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:25:24 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Microsoft is doing their best. Is it good enough?
In-Reply-To: <200310111543.33562.dbmacg-j4iOX5ZKO4mumhQq9Hcxfg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <20031011070523.23259dd0.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1065884119.1174.771.camel@localhost>
 <200310111543.33562.dbmacg@mail.rosecom.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122009500.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Duncan MacGregor wrote:

> Microsoft is doing their best.
>
> The issue is not whether their products are good enough for them, but whether
> they are good enough for us.

The general issue is that they act as a monopoly so they have commoditized
hw and sw to the point where they *are* the hw and the sw and *dictate
prices*. Incidentally they destroyed several dozen highly inventive high
quality hw makers in the process and have made far east produced
cheapest-of-the-cheap crapola so called hardware (don't squeeze the mouse
too hard and don't shine your halogen desk lamp on it and don't use your
cell phone near it - guess why I write this ?). Also a computer is no
longer an 'investment' and the piles of dead computers started being so
huge they cause environmental problems. After market no longer exists.
Repair consists of swapping cards (if any), then upgrading.

Have you noticed the price jump for boxed XP vs. boxed W98 ?  Such price
jumps are only possible for a monopoly. No such price hikes appeared with
ANY other OS maker, including Linux. They did this by using monopoly
techniques. Notice how they dropped support for W98 as soon as possible.
When is the drop for XP sheduled ? What will your software run on in 5
years (if it will run) ? Do you plan a very short carreer (like, under 5
years in computing) ? Otherwise, I fully agree with you, they did what was
best for them. So do sharks you know. Fill the tummy with whatever is
swimming in their waters and keep growing, and shine that fin whenever
they can.

And people who make appliances should keep doing that, and stay out of
'general purpose computing' which is what the PC was designed for. Sony
Playstation was designed to run games, the Xbox competes with it, Tivo is
a fancy VCR (never mind what OS it's running), and the PC is an afordable
workstation for the masses. Not a game console.

Not an appliance. A general purpose computing low-cost workstation. Such
that my neighbor can do word processing and I can run a compiler and the
other guy some statistics software from a thrid party. NOT such that we
all run the programming language flavor the borg decided is 'in' this
week. Nor do I wish to see the trend to need to upgrade every 2 years at
most continue. I have stuff I've made 10 years ago that still works under
Linux. The dos versions/windows versions ? haha. History. I'd have to
spend $1500 a year on licenses just to be able to maintain a decent
toolchain set for M$ upgrade-or-die ware.

Peter
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 18:41:46 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:41:46 +0200 (IST)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <3451.216.138.194.32.1065945520.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com>   
 <3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com><20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <3451.216.138.194.32.1065945520.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122037310.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

>
> <quote who="Peter L. Peres">
> >> No. I don't think you understood a single word he said. It has nothing
> >> whatsoever to do with Capitalism. Capital is no longer the primary means
> >> of production, therefore control of Capital is no longer an issue,
> >> control of information *is*. Yer still stuck in this whole Communist vs.
> >> Capitalist thang, that is sooooo ten years ago.

Wrong quote, the second. Watch those angle brackets. I did NOT write that.
Please attribute your quotations properly. This is apolitical discussion
and I do not care too much for being misquoted (several times) in the
archives.

> I can see that. Control of Information = Control of Capital and
> Populations. Dissemination of (censored) information in the form of
> distribution (esp. in previously un-exploited markets - the fact that the
> 3rd world is pretty big is handy) of advertising creates local false
> wealth and global recognition of control over populations. We were taught
> it would happen in school and here it is, all around us.
>
> The censorship is global. Some governments are outright blatent about it,
> others that pretend to 'grant' 'rights' and 'freedoms' are sneakier.
> Ultimately, the real power is in the hands of those who have control over
> deciding just what information to disseminate, which has been the press
> traditionally. We see how much the Internet challenges that fact, we have
> yet to see what the adjustments will be.
>
> The problem with communism is... who would police the whole damn thing?
> That's what I wanna know. :)

Now you're funny. We had jokes about there being 1:1 undercover political
secret police to normal people in some place. We did not think it was
funny at the time.

Did you hear the one about the spammer who used servers in China and
antispammers dropped a word with the Chinese police that they are
spreading anti-government propaganda ? The server site was shut down in 6
hours and they took away the computers and the operators ;-).

Peter
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 19:24:43 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:24:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <LAW14-F33JB5WQILrQV0001197e@hotmail.com><3F876E14.6080800@truxtar.com><20031010225103.332e1af5.joehill@sympatico.ca><Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111108250.530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet><3451.216.138.194.32.1065945520.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3932.216.138.194.32.1065986683.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="JoeHill">
>> The problem with communism is... who would police the whole damn
>> thing? That's what I wanna know. :)
>
> Weeeelll, it depends on how you define communism, of course. Soviet
> style communism doesn't work any more than Corporate Capitalism does,
> for reasons I outline in my manifesto.

Soviets were socialists, more state capitalism than communism. Marx and
Engels have pretty much defined communism in the Communist Manifesto.

> The only viable social system, in the long run, is more anarchist in
> nature, maybe we could call it Chomskyism ;-)
>
> *He* actually calls it "Anarcho-Syndicalism", a highly decentralized and
> directly democratic "government" that is truly 'of the people, for the
> people, and by the people'.

And why is this a viable social system? Every other 'viable social system'
we've had has been a failure. This one would succeed? I'll tell ya why it
won't work for me. I hate voting. If you make me vote, you defeat your own
purpose. Democracy is for the birds. I figure tribal anarchism though...
as long as I get to be boss, I don't care. :)

> You really ought to read Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United
> States". He provides several case studies which support the thesis that,
> left alone by authority, people do *not* revert to a Lord-of-the-Flies
> type existence, but in fact automagically build their own stable,
> cohesive, and democratic communities.

At a macro-social level perhaps. Input the concept of ownership and
currency and Lord of the Flies soon looks like a cakewalk. Lets see what
happens after the next global war.

-- 
Keith
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 19:28:28 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:28:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
Message-ID: <3952.216.138.194.32.1065986908.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>



<quote who="Anton Markov">
> Hi Hugh,
>
> I really like your ideas.  I too am a strong supporter of capitalism and
getting the government out of the way.  Unfortunately what you are

How do 'capitalism' and 'getting the government out of the way' equate?
AFAIK, capitalism requires government, and it's antithesis is anarchism.
If you're thinking that getting the government out of the way of the
creation of individual economic wealth in the free market is going to
happen soon, well... I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. :)

> describing is an utopia, that is to say it will never happen.  There is
a flaw in human nature that will always create a certain number of
bandits, crooks, politicians, and other dishonest individuals. These

IIRC it's called 'rule of law'. Society creates it's criminals. Make
something illegal and BOOM you have a whole new class of criminals.

> people will try to abuse the system just as they do now and ruin it for
everyone else.  There always has to be a controlling body that keeps

That system was designed by people who have a vested interest in
controlling everything they can get a little leverage on. IMHO, the
(greed-driven) invention of the concept of ownership created the mess that
we're in to begin with (and no, I can't think of a better alternative
route to get to where we're at technologically). We've recently
proliferated that concept by expanding it to include ownership of thoughts
and ideas. Taxes soon to follow...

> these individuals from ruining it for everyone else.  Preferably this
wouldn't be a democratic body (alas, the majority seem to fall under the
definition of dishonest (or at least not-so-nice-and-kinda-lazy) I gave

Most people I know are willing to work hard to make their money, raise
their families and do the best they can with what's available. If they are
dishonest, I would say it's in the exception rather than the rule. What I
don't like about democracy is all this damn voting...

> above), but an aristocracy of a kind where the members are selected
based on their wealth and achievements in life (definitely not

Meritocracy also has it's flaws. F.ex. Who sets the parameters of the
meritocracy and why should everyone else recognize it as valid? (At this
point of the game we are still validating based on invention. If it's new,
we validate. We often validate things that we later wish we hadn't.) While
meritocracy may be the least unfavorable of the available options, it may
also be time to start thinking outside the box. Let's make some NEW
mistakes here. :)

> hereditary).  Isn't that the way most open-source projects elect their
leaders (the 'achievements' part anyway)?

I think in OSS if you start the tribe you automagically get to be the
chief. If you're a lousy chief or have an lousy project then the injuns
will leave for a better tribe. Even poobahs like Erik Raymond just kind of
stepped up to the plate and got labelled as chiefs. We're a pretty
easy-going bunch of injuns here. :)

> A few more points below.
>
> P.S.  Please understand that I am not contradicting your ideas.  I just
want to point out that instead of concentrating on a perfect world that
will never be, it is best to think of a real future and preferably as
close in the future as possible; that way we can play our role in making
that future come true.

I think if we start thinking far enough ahead we'll actually see where all
of this is ultimately going... individual IP (ipv6) addresses mapped to
your retina, finger prints and voice mask, all in the name of controlling
that evil monster called spam. Or if not spam, then viruses or open source
advocates... the folks really in power will find some reason, label it as
evil and gain granular control of populations. Think Orwell, the book of
Revelations or whatever. The end result is the same. We become robots or
criminals. Think I'm joking? It's illegal to be without identification at
all times in some countries. The direction is more control, not less.

The overall future of this planet is not a pretty picture unless we start
making some fundamental changes in our values and beliefs systems. I see
it as falling apart at the seams physically, socially and spiritually.
Thinking collectively of ourselves as unique citizens of the planet is one
step that I would say is one in the right direction. How we apply our
talents to creating our future is what will make the difference when we're
explaining to the ghosts of our grandchildren about what our part in all
of this was.

You have some interesting ideas that present a lot of food for thought.
>From where I'm sitting, the problem I see is quite possibly not the same
one that you see. If it is, we are maybe looking at it from different
angles (do-gooder <> good-doer?).

At the end of the day, I think M$ should make the damn BIOS'es. Why not?
They don't need to be the only ones making them (USDJ will be all over
that one), and it's unlikely that they will be allowed to mass produce
them OS specific. The market won't allow it at this point (remember the
iNtel fiasco with PIII chips having serials?). An open source version will
appear soon enough that will work better and look like hell. :)

<snip>
-- 
Keith
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 19:40:50 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:40:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Net Integrator Appliance
In-Reply-To: <200310121449.45018.ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310120804.44092.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>
    <3887.216.138.194.32.1065982623.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <200310121449.45018.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3975.216.138.194.32.1065987650.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<quote who="Scott Adams">
> Hi Keith,
> Thats wat i was thinking myself, but they seem hell bent on this unit. I
> already put the ROM chip in a new computer and experimented with it using
> larger ide drives, but im worried some of the custom stuff might be
> copywrited, and their idea of cloning it to 2 or more machines doesn't
> seem right to me.

If there's copyright violations I would *_back_away_slowley_*... tell them
is that there's a lot of bugs to be worked out and it would be less
expensive to buy duplicate servers (they're cheap at wholesale) than to
invest the time in hacking it.

I took a good close look at that box at the factory in Markham, talked to
some of the people involved in it. In the end I wasn't satisfied that the
box was any more secure than any linux box I've configured, and the single
point of failure too risky.


> Scott
>
> On October 12, 2003 2:17 pm, Keith Mastin wrote:
>> Watch your warranty with that if you plan on doing anything under the
>> hood
>> yourself. The whole point of Net Integration is customer entrapment.
>> IMHO
>> you would be better off to get a copy of esmith or clark connect and
>> RAID5
>> that. In moving evrything over to a scsi drive from ROM you lose the
>> secured aspect of the OS.

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 19:43:04 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:43:04 -0400
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. to
 lock out...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> In general (there are exceptions), people left alone do self-organize
> into communities.  But claiming that those are automatically stable,
> cohesive, and democratic is pushing it pretty hard.  Instability,
> factions, and fragmentation are common.

There is no evidence I have seen for this, and in the book I refer to
there are many examples of quite the opposite.

> And initially-democratic organizations show a strong tendency to turn
> feudal, with the leader-by-common-consent turning into a permanent
> lord,

Again a contradiction and an assumption. In a truly democratic
process/community, there is no mechanism by which one could accomplish
this.

> unless a particularly thoughtful leader or lucky early history
> makes people codify *rules* that protect dissent and ensure access to
> the political process.
> 
> Also, purely democratic communities can be viciously oppressive toward
> minorities and disenfranchised groups. 

John Stuart Mill et al, very old and very well contradicted by history
and logic. Besides, "purely democratic" and "disenfranchised" are
contradictions.

> Kings wonder whether the people are behind them; an elected leader
> knows they are.
> 
> People make a lot of noise about how wonderful democracy is, but in
> fact the West's key innovations were constitutional government and
> separation of powers, not democracy.  Democracies can go bad as easily
> as any other form of government; Hitler came to power by being
> elected.

Like I say, you'd really want to read the book. All of what you have
said is based on assumptions and historical examples which are only
tangentially relevant at best.

Yes, Hitler was "elected", but not in the sense I am talking about, nor
in any sense that would even approach what direct democracy and
anarcho-syndicalism would allow.

This Hobbesian view of "human nature", what I referred to as the Lord of
the Flies scenario, has been thoroughly and roundly debunked anyway, by
Anthropologists, Historians, and Philosophers alike.

Even Evolutionary Biologists have begun to see a pattern which looks
very much like a tendency for humans to naturally form stable and
self-sustaining communities as an "evolutionary advantage", similar to
the way we form physical traits as per the same.

Of course, conflict is always present, as circumstances change, for
example resource scarcity or natural disaster can lead to competition
and "jealousy", but overall the tendency is the same.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A man said to the Universe:
	"Sir, I exist!"
	"However," replied the Universe,
	"the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."
		-- Stephen Crane
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 19:57:35 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:57:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. 
     tolock out...)
In-Reply-To: <20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca><Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net>
    <20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4022.216.138.194.32.1065988655.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


Sorry Joe...

<quote who="JoeHill">
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 14:40:27 -0400 (EDT)
> Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>> People make a lot of noise about how wonderful democracy is, but in
>> fact the West's key innovations were constitutional government and
>> separation of powers, not democracy.  Democracies can go bad as easily
>> as any other form of government; Hitler came to power by being
>> elected.

The thread ends there. It's the law. Once hilter is introduced into a
topic of discussion we cannot go any further.

-- 
Keith
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 20:18:40 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 16:18:40 -0400
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
Message-ID: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net>

If there's anyone here with P4 or Xeon with hyperthreading and SMP
kernel, can you compile kernel
    make bzImage > /dev/null
    time make -j 3 bzImage > /dev/null
    time make bzImage > /dev/null		
and post the elapsed time for the last 2 commands.

Thanks.  It's time for upgrade, and I would like to get some feel for
hyperthreading in P4 and Xeon.  

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 21:08:29 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:08:29 -0400
Subject: X oddities under Debian
In-Reply-To: <20031011145532.GA3429-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031011145532.GA3429@m433>
Message-ID: <3F89C2CD.9010008@truxtar.com>

Hello Walter,

Have you tried using xrandr?  It can switch your *virtual* desktop size 
so you can change the size of your screen without scrolling.

Use it like:

xrandr --size {width}x{height}

i.e.
xrandr --size 800x600

The only catch I have noticed is that the resolution has to be one of 
the mod lines in XF86Config.

I hope this helps.

Walter Dnes wrote:
>   I usually want to run X at 1152x864.  For editing large images, I want
> larger screens, and for streaming video 600x400 or 512x384 is optimum.
> I don't like the slipping-and-sliding I get with using a 512x384
> "viewport" in a 1600x1200 virtual window.  So I set up several files in
> /etc/X11,  Besides the usual XF86Config-4, I have 1600XF86Config-4,
> 1152XF86Config-4, 512XF86Config-4, etc.  Each one has one modeline, and
> is hardcoded to a specific resolution.  The webpage...
> http://koala.ilog.fr/cgi-bin/nph-colas-modelines  (javascript required)
> can help you generate all sorts of oddball modelines.

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 21:14:43 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:14:43 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: the wonderful Bill Gates
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310121713440.3008-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

just saw the story on cnn's web site.  isn't he so caring? :)


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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 21:34:39 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 17:34:39 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <3F89C8EF.3000205@truxtar.com>

I did just that.  I had one of the most computer illiterate person in 
the class to install the Redhat system (I only interfered to explain 
some options so they didn't have to read the manual to make it faster; 
we only had a 75min class), and the teacher installed WinXP.

The Redhat installation turned out to be much easier even though it had 
more options (I of course mentioned that Redhat come with a lot more 
software than Windows), because the WinXP installation would not start 
right off the disk.  We had to start the installation from Windows.

My classmates also said they liked the graphics in Redhat better. :)

Ah, yes.  Another dozen people have now seen the light! :)

Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> I would also pitch in saying that Linux is easier to install than Windows. 
> I can make the comparison of Redhat 9.0 and Microsoft Windows 2000, from 
> personal experience.
> 
> I guess the only way to tell would be to ask two regular computer users
> who have about the same experience/knowledge, and get them to install both
> operating systems, and then to tell you which OS they thought was easier 
> to install.
> 

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 22:10:04 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:10:04 -0400
Subject: the wonderful Bill Gates
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310121713440.3008-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310121713440.3008-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F89D13C.1000503@rogers.com>

Justin Zygmont wrote:
> just saw the story on cnn's web site.  isn't he so caring? :)
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

What story would that be?


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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 22:39:01 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:39:01 -0400
Subject: B.I.O.S. to lock out non-Windows code ?
In-Reply-To: <3952.216.138.194.32.1065986908.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3952.216.138.194.32.1065986908.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <3F89D805.9000103@truxtar.com>


I think one way to make this discussion (as well as the "Microsoft must 
be held..." and the "Anti-spam..." discussions) more clear is to agree 
on the meaning of certain terms.  Most importantly...

Keith Mastin wrote:

> How do 'capitalism' and 'getting the government out of the way' equate?
> AFAIK, capitalism requires government, and it's antithesis is anarchism.
> If you're thinking that getting the government out of the way of the
> creation of individual economic wealth in the free market is going to
> happen soon, well... I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. :)

I think we are talking about different things.  When I use the words 
"Capitalism" and "Communism", I am referring not to specific political 
systems that have existed or do exist, nor am I talking about any of the 
particular types of these systems that people have mentioned here.

I am referring to different mindsets:

"Communism" - we let others make decisions for us.  People live their 
life by a set of rules, put in their five cents into the society, and 
don't worry about anything.  Some kind of government takes care of all 
the decisions, and the people accept them either by choice or by force.

"Capitalism" - everyone is responsible for themselves and their family's 
future. People don't wait for someone to come along and give them a job 
or welfare.  Everyone takes care of themselves and partners with other 
people as it benefits them.  They choose whether they spend their lives 
sweeping floors and live an easy life with no pressure, or they go on to 
become entrepreneurs, spend countless hours working, fail, try again, 
and finally build empires that allows them to achieve their dreams.

Both mindsets can exist under democracies and dictatorships alike. 
However, only capitalism will work in an anarchy.  In order for 
governments to exist, people must be dependent on them for as many of 
our everyday needs as possible.  For example, the idea of "social 
democracy" is nothing but a scam to get people more dependent on the 
government.  The government is a parasite that feeds on people's desire 
for "security" and "equality" (which stems from jealousy, the *largest* 
human flaw).  The government consists of beaurocrats who do not 
contribute anything to society except wasting people's money in the form 
of taxes.

Most Canadians work from January to mid-June just to pay taxes.  That 
means someone earning $50'000 a year pays $50'000 in taxes.  Is every 
cent of those fifty thousand dollars returned to us in the forms of 
services? NO. A chunk goes to pay the salaries of the various ministers, 
and other lazy bums at all levels of the government.

Let's take the example of schools.  What if everyone took the tax money 
that they pay the government who then uses it to pay the schools, and 
just gave it directly to the school that their child went to?  We just 
eliminated the Board of Education and as well as the Minister of 
Education him/herself.  That freed millions of tax dollars that can be 
used by the individuals to a) improve the quality of their children's 
education or b) to improve their life in some other way.

There are countless similar examples that I can give you if you want. 
This is why it is important to get the government out of the way.  Once 
people take responsibility for their own lives, other problems in 
society such as drug abuse and poverty will start to go away.  This 
won't happen tomorrow, but it's the only way I see for humanity to move 
forward.

I hope this cleared up some of my logic.

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 22:37:12 2003
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:37:12 -0400
Subject: the wonderful Bill Gates
In-Reply-To: <3F89D13C.1000503-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310121713440.3008-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F899F58.14337.6E760FC@localhost>

> Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > just saw the story on cnn's web site.  isn't he so caring? :)
> > 
> > 
> What story would that be?
> 

I would like to know too. It is not obvious where to look on the CNN Home page. 
At any rate, it can't be more fawning than their coverage of "Ahnold", action 
figure-elect of California. Lots of biography about him, but nothing on what he 
signed in just the past two days for electricity deregulation.

Paul King
=========================================================
Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/


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From ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 22:59:31 2003
From: ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Adams)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 18:59:31 -0400
Subject: Net Integrator Appliance
In-Reply-To: <3975.216.138.194.32.1065987650.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310120804.44092.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org> <200310121449.45018.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org> <3975.216.138.194.32.1065987650.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <200310121859.31487.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>

Hi Keith
after reconsideration, and your responces, im gonna tell them its not 
praticall, and they would be better served with another distro like e-smith 
or clark connect, or my own version. I have used linux for about 7 years, and 
always configured my own servers for clients. I think somebody was reading 
too many reviews and wanted to undermine me or the company that makes the Net 
integrator. Well Im the wrong guy for that crap. Thanks again for the push in 
the direction I knew i was heading.
Scott

On October 12, 2003 3:40 pm, Keith Mastin wrote:

> If there's copyright violations I would *_back_away_slowley_*... tell them
> is that there's a lot of bugs to be worked out and it would be less
> expensive to buy duplicate servers (they're cheap at wholesale) than to
> invest the time in hacking it.
>
> I took a good close look at that box at the factory in Markham, talked to
> some of the people involved in it. In the end I wasn't satisfied that the
> box was any more secure than any linux box I've configured, and the single
> point of failure too risky.
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 23:04:53 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:04:53 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <1065883448.1174.759.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>	 <18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>	 <20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>	 <21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>	 <20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>	 <3F877324.4000503@truxtar.com> <1065883448.1174.759.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>

I think you are still living in the industrial age!

Lloyd D Budd wrote:
>>(Fortunately) corporations can survive things like lawsuits 
>>better than individuals.
> 
> That is not a fortunate thing! Individuals, *people* should by more able
> to *survive*. Fortunately, corporations (the needs of many) seem to be
> legally more protected than individuals. Unfortunately, law is currently
> largely capitalistic.  The larger your wallet the easier it is to be
> legally correct. A small company with one or a few "great inventions"
> can be suffocated by a large immoral company.

Your concept of a "corporation" is very outdated.  A corporation is 
nothing more than a record sitting in a file-folder in some lawyer's 
office.  Anyone can create a corporation for $89 CAN online at the 
Government of Canada's website.  In the digital age a corporation 
doesn't have to be a big building with many offices, manufacturing 
plants, warehouses, etc.  It can be a single person working from a 
basement apartment; that is certainly how Bill Gate started off.

The power of the corporation comes from the fact that it can protect 
individuals from lawsuits and the government.

If someone sues you personally, you can get thrown in jail, your 
possessions can be confiscated, etc.  If someone sues your company even 
if it consists solely of you, you can just file for bankruptcy and go do 
something else.

More importantly, a corporation pays taxes on its (or your) net profits 
rather than gross cash flow as does an individual.  That means that you 
can avoid paying taxes on things like new computers, gas (partially), 
etc.  With a *good lawyer* (don't take my work for it!), your "income" 
(net) will decrease to a very small percentage of your gross.

The best part about this deal is that these advantages are available to 
anyone.  It's not about luck.  Anyone can use these tools if they want 
to, no matter what you do for a living.  I would recommend a great book 
called "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki if you want to learn more 
about the "secretes" of the rich.


P.S. What would you do, and what would you envision the world as if 
Microsoft went bankrupt or just out of business in the next year?  Say 
everyone including the government sues Microsoft, threatens to throw 
Bill Gates in jail, and Bill Gates decides to take his personal billions 
and retire to some place far away like Australia.  Microsoft is gone. 
Poof. No more!  What would happen?

-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 23:12:03 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:12:03 -0400
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
In-Reply-To: Message from William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> 
   of: 18:40 EDT." <20031012201839.GA1095-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031012231204.3629D3FF8@cbbrowne.com>

> If there's anyone here with P4 or Xeon with hyperthreading and SMP
> kernel, can you compile kernel
>     make bzImage > /dev/null
>     time make -j 3 bzImage > /dev/null
>     time make bzImage > /dev/null		
> and post the elapsed time for the last 2 commands.
> 
> Thanks.  It's time for upgrade, and I would like to get some feel for
> hyperthreading in P4 and Xeon.  

I have one of these to "play with;" the problem with your benchmark is
that it doesn't quite measure what you think it does.

In the case of the box I have, I'd have to use "make -j 12" in order to
get the result you are thinking of, because the box has 4 CPUs,
pretending to be 8, and you need to "flood" them to get a good feel for
things.

I haven't been able to test the box for how much difference (positive or
negative) HyperThreading makes.  The box is generally stinkin' fast...

12 UW SCSI drives with a cacheing RAID controller helps too :-).
--
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http://cbbrowne.com/info/advocacy.html
If you're sending someone some Styrofoam, what do you pack it in?
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 23:33:40 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:33:40 -0400
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
In-Reply-To: <20031012231204.3629D3FF8-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031012231204.3629D3FF8@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <20031012233340.GA2275@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 07:12:03PM -0400, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > If there's anyone here with P4 or Xeon with hyperthreading and SMP
> > kernel, can you compile kernel
> >     make bzImage > /dev/null
> >     time make -j 3 bzImage > /dev/null
> >     time make bzImage > /dev/null		
> > and post the elapsed time for the last 2 commands.
> > 
> > Thanks.  It's time for upgrade, and I would like to get some feel for
> > hyperthreading in P4 and Xeon.  
> 
> I have one of these to "play with;" the problem with your benchmark is
> that it doesn't quite measure what you think it does.
> 
> In the case of the box I have, I'd have to use "make -j 12" in order to
> get the result you are thinking of, because the box has 4 CPUs,
> pretending to be 8, and you need to "flood" them to get a good feel for
> things.
> 
> I haven't been able to test the box for how much difference (positive or
> negative) HyperThreading makes.  The box is generally stinkin' fast...
> 
> 12 UW SCSI drives with a cacheing RAID controller helps too :-).

'-j 3' is for those who have single P4 or Xeon.  Single CPU result will
give me better feel of things.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 12 23:49:01 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:49:01 -0400
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. 
 tolock out...)
In-Reply-To: <4022.216.138.194.32.1065988655.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net>
	<20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<4022.216.138.194.32.1065988655.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031012194901.06de100f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:57:35 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> The thread ends there. It's the law. Once hilter is introduced into a
> topic of discussion we cannot go any further.

Someone's quoting is waaaaaaay off, I didn't bring up Hitler... :-/

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?
		-- Ursula K. LeGuin
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 00:00:11 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 20:00:11 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F89DE15.7030506-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<18483.216.138.194.32.1065739112.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010084000.69ba9d0f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<21455.216.138.194.32.1065803916.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031010222831.12411c71.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F877324.4000503@truxtar.com>
	<1065883448.1174.759.camel@localhost>
	<3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 19:04:53 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Your concept of a "corporation" is very outdated.  A corporation is 
> nothing more than a record sitting in a file-folder in some lawyer's 
> office. 

Wrong. Corporations have the same problems with inequality that
individuals do. If you honestly believe that a corp someone starts in
their basement can compete with something like MS on an even playing
field, well, you've been in a basement for awhile ;-)
 
> The power of the corporation comes from the fact that it can protect 
> individuals from lawsuits and the government.
> 
> If someone sues you personally, you can get thrown in jail, your 
> possessions can be confiscated, etc. 

You can get thrown in jail from a civil lawsuit now?! Shite, I gotta
keep up with current events better...

> The best part about this deal is that these advantages are available
> to anyone.  

Riiiiiiggghht, now we're in fairy tale land with dancing candy ponies
and chocolatey marshmallows...LOL!

> It's not about luck.  Anyone can use these tools if they
> want to, no matter what you do for a living.  I would recommend a
> great book called "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" by Robert Kiyosaki if you want
> to learn more about the "secretes" of the rich.

It's no secret: exploit whatever advantage you can to crush your
competition, including paying off government officials, manipulating the
market with propagandistic FUD, mass-marketing inferior products that
lock your customers into a neverending upgrade cycle, etc.

MS has it down cold ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Once the toothpaste is out of the tube, it's hard to get it back in.
		-- H.R. Haldeman
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 01:23:56 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:23:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
In-Reply-To: <20031012231204.3629D3FF8-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net> 
 <20031012231204.3629D3FF8@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122123010.30984@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> get the result you are thinking of, because the box has 4 CPUs,
> pretending to be 8, and you need to "flood" them to get a good feel for
> things.
>
> I haven't been able to test the box for how much difference (positive or
> negative) HyperThreading makes.  The box is generally stinkin' fast...
>
> 12 UW SCSI drives with a cacheing RAID controller helps too :-).

I hope you've got that box doing some inportant resource intensive job.
Anything else would be disrespectful ;)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 01:30:24 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:30:24 -0400
Subject: turning off nautilus "autorun"
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122123010.30984-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net> 
 <20031012231204.3629D3FF8@cbbrowne.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122123010.30984@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122126430.875@epoch.cs>

a change of subject away from all those previously "heavier" topics... :)

Anyone know how to turn off Nautilus's (GNOME) annoying behaviour of
popping up a window whenever I mount a CD or drive?

I've tried browsing the web and googling for it, but I must be stupid and
not putting in the right keywords... I'm coming up blank.  Not even
finding any threads that ask this question... hmmm....

Also, anyone know how to disable the "Use Default Background" menu option
for Nautilus when right-clicking on the desktop?

-Jing
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 01:56:53 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:56:53 -0400
Subject: X oddities under Debian
In-Reply-To: <3F89C2CD.9010008-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031011145532.GA3429@m433> <3F89C2CD.9010008@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <200310122156.53354.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 12 October 2003 17:08, Anton Markov wrote:

> Have you tried using xrandr?  It can switch your *virtual* desktop size
> so you can change the size of your screen without scrolling.
>
> Use it like:
>
> xrandr --size {width}x{height}
>
> i.e.
> xrandr --size 800x600
>
> The only catch I have noticed is that the resolution has to be one of
> the mod lines in XF86Config.

Very cool,  unfortunately Debian stable has only X 4.1 which doesn't include 
this support.

Debian unstable has X 4.2.1 and does have the xrandr client available.   
Backports of X 4.2.1 to stable do exist, as (I'm pretty sure) do backports of 
X 4.3.0.  Interestingly the randr extension wasn't added until X 4.3.0 based 
on my reading of xfree.org ... perhaps the Debian guys backported it to 4.2?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 01:48:35 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:48:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. 
     tolock out...)
In-Reply-To: <20031012194901.06de100f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca><Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net><20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill@sympatico.ca><4022.216.138.194.32.1065988655.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031012194901.06de100f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4176.216.138.194.32.1066009715.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:57:35 -0400 (EDT)
> "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>>
>> The thread ends there. It's the law. Once hilter is introduced into a
>> topic of discussion we cannot go any further.
>
> Someone's quoting is waaaaaaay off, I didn't bring up Hitler... :-/

That was mine. I turned it off. PITA. Henry mentioned Hitler. The thread
effectively ended right there. :)

-- 
Keith
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 02:19:19 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:19:19 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111956160.2114-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000@tosh5100.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111956160.2114@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <200310122219.19938.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 11 October 2003 13:58, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> Not true. In OpenBSD you just do it step by step and it works first time.
> Just DON'T EVER LOSE THE ROOT PASSWORD or you'll need to reinstall. These
> guys are serious about security.

You couldn't mount the drive from rescue media and simply edit the password 
file?
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 02:20:27 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 22:20:27 -0400
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. tolock out...)
In-Reply-To: <4176.216.138.194.32.1066009715.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012194901.06de100f.joehill@sympatico.ca> <4176.216.138.194.32.1066009715.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031013022027.GA2613@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 09:48:35PM -0400, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 15:57:35 -0400 (EDT)
> > "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> >
> >>
> >> The thread ends there. It's the law. Once hilter is introduced into a
> >> topic of discussion we cannot go any further.
> >
> > Someone's quoting is waaaaaaay off, I didn't bring up Hitler... :-/
> 
> That was mine. I turned it off. PITA. Henry mentioned Hitler. The thread
> effectively ended right there. :)

Just because German Army failed to take Moscow, that's no reason to jump
on Hitler.  Okey... it is good reason, since that costed them the war.
But, it's old news, and let's get over it.  Like it or not, Germany is
Europe and Europe is Germany.  More to point, Germany is very involved
in Linux and Open Source development.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 03:06:36 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:06:36 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F89DE15.7030506-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1065883448.1174.759.camel@localhost> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 12 October 2003 19:04, Anton Markov wrote:

> The power of the corporation comes from the fact that it can protect
> individuals from lawsuits and the government.

This is not true.  If your corporation has a liability with the government 
(usually taxes) they can come after your house, your car, your dog, your cat, 
etc.  regardless of whether you are incorporated or not.

Being incorporated also provides you with only very limited protection against 
lawsuits.  Search google for director's liability.

> If someone sues you personally, you can get thrown in jail, your
> possessions can be confiscated, etc.  If someone sues your company even
> if it consists solely of you, you can just file for bankruptcy and go do
> something else.

As nice as that sounds, if someone *really* wants to get you, and they have 
the reasons, means and will to do it, they will get you.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 03:51:01 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:51:01 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <200310122306.36917.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com> <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Ofcourse I oversimplified things; anything is possible if someone really 
tries.  The point is that corporations give us many more *legal* tax 
loopholes.

On October 12, 2003 11:06 pm, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Sunday 12 October 2003 19:04, Anton Markov wrote:
> > The power of the corporation comes from the fact that it can protect
> > individuals from lawsuits and the government.
>
> This is not true.  If your corporation has a liability with the government
> (usually taxes) they can come after your house, your car, your dog, your
> cat, etc.  regardless of whether you are incorporated or not.
>
> Being incorporated also provides you with only very limited protection
> against lawsuits.  Search google for director's liability.
>
> > If someone sues you personally, you can get thrown in jail, your
> > possessions can be confiscated, etc.  If someone sues your company even
> > if it consists solely of you, you can just file for bankruptcy and go do
> > something else.
>
> As nice as that sounds, if someone *really* wants to get you, and they have
> the reasons, means and will to do it, they will get you.

- -- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint = 
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

 "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
 - Some bad guy from 007
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iD8DBQE/iiEpRreNkzrRRLQRAjNoAJ4onPhcGlWhyPsaCRodrVFqJnFWDgCfd4Da
znt3k2sj+NnshAKJFaigqIY=
=nFE9
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 03:57:52 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:57:52 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031012200011.007467e1.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com> <20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Uhm!

On October 12, 2003 08:00 pm, JoeHill wrote:
> > The best part about this deal is that these advantages are available
> > to anyone.
>
> Riiiiiiggghht, now we're in fairy tale land with dancing candy ponies
> and chocolatey marshmallows...LOL!

I refuse to have an educated discussion with someone who can't accept simple 
facts.

>
> MS has it down cold ;-)

You still haven't told me what would happen if Microsoft disappeared in the 
next year (or at least a lawsuit ordered that no more than 50% of all new 
computers must use Windows).  Isn't this your dream?

- -- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint = 
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

 "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
 - Some bad guy from 007
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
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iD8DBQE/iiLERreNkzrRRLQRAhAwAJ4tERfIYKJmf7V2znmLCaKT+YmNnQCeN7qT
JrmrZreaP5u9+iJXKInFo0g=
=mgkn
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 05:05:44 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 01:05:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F89DE15.7030506-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031013001339.12065A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Anton Markov wrote:
> More importantly, a corporation pays taxes on its (or your) net profits 
> rather than gross cash flow as does an individual...

This is true of any business, not just corporations.  It is not necessary
to incorporate to deduct business expenses against business income (and
even, indirectly, against employment income*).  Small businesses often
are not incorporated.

(* You can deduct business losses -- roughly speaking, the excess of
business expenses over business income -- against other income, e.g. from
employment, *provided* the Feds believe that your business is legitimate
and is truly intended to earn a profit.  This is an area which has seen
many abuses, so any business which makes losses, year after year, that
are then deducted against employment income, had better have a really
convincing story behind it if the Feds ask, which they will.  Otherwise
they will decide that it's a hobby, meaning that its revenue is not
income, its expenses are not deductible, and you're in trouble.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 05:05:04 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 01:05:04 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <200310122358.05750.anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
	<20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 23:57:52 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > > The best part about this deal is that these advantages are
> > > available to anyone.
> >
> > Riiiiiiggghht, now we're in fairy tale land with dancing candy
> > ponies and chocolatey marshmallows...LOL!
> 
> I refuse to have an educated discussion with someone who can't accept
> simple facts.

Ok. Sorry, I'll be serious. I'll grant you, it is a fact that anyone can
form a corp, but *not* anyone has the same advantages in forming that
corp. I mean, c'mon, do you really think some little startup would stand
a snowball's chance in hell against the monsters that dominate the
business landscape? What is the failure rate for new small businesses,
like 90%? It is not an even playing field out there, and won't be until
some of the power of large corporate entities is deconstructed, not
by increasing government regulation, mind you, but by *decreasing*
government protection of large corporate interests, for example where it
applies to Intellectual Property law.   

> >
> > MS has it down cold ;-)
> 
> You still haven't told me what would happen if Microsoft disappeared
> in the next year (or at least a lawsuit ordered that no more than 50%
> of all new computers must use Windows).  Isn't this your dream?

Hell ya! I'd have the greatest job in the world, running around like a
madman installing Linux on all those suddenly Windows-less machines, the
internet would function more smoothly, there would be rejoicing in the
streets, and Slashdot would disappear in a puff of irrelevancy. ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
	"It's today!" said Piglet.
	"My favorite day," said Pooh.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 05:08:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 01:08:15 -0400
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. 
 tolock out...)
In-Reply-To: <4176.216.138.194.32.1066009715.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net>
	<20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<4022.216.138.194.32.1065988655.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031012194901.06de100f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<4176.216.138.194.32.1066009715.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031013010815.7524327a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 21:48:35 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> That was mine. I turned it off. PITA. Henry mentioned Hitler. The
> thread effectively ended right there. :)

Good, cuz I've got 4 kewl episodes of Animatrix (I just discovered) to
watch ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The major sin is the sin of being born.
		-- Samuel Beckett
--
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From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 06:41:52 2003
From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:41:52 +0800
Subject: Mulithoming..
Message-ID: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv>

Hi,

I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible to 
using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal IP?

if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to be 
multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?

TIA

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 06:53:29 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 02:53:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <200310131441.52153.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310130250380.4384-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

you can do that, but how will you be able to have a cable for your 
outgoing IP and a cable to the hub for the internal IP, all on the the 
same NIC? :)


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, JM wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible to 
> using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal IP?
> 
> if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to be 
> multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?
> 
> TIA
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 11:44:19 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:44:19 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <200310131441.52153.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <200310130744.20001.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 13 October 2003 02:41, JM wrote:

> I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible to
> using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal IP?

I don't see why not.  Of course the IP won't be globally routable so why do 
it?

> if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to be
> multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?

Why do it at all?  What applications will be listening, if you can tell us the 
intention perhaps we can give you some more/better advice ...

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 11:51:15 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:51:15 -0400
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122123010.30984-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net>  <20031012231204.3629D3FF8@cbbrowne.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122123010.30984@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F8A91B3.2090701@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003 cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> 
> 
>>get the result you are thinking of, because the box has 4 CPUs,
>>pretending to be 8, and you need to "flood" them to get a good feel for
>>things.
>>
>>I haven't been able to test the box for how much difference (positive or
>>negative) HyperThreading makes.  The box is generally stinkin' fast...
>>
>>12 UW SCSI drives with a cacheing RAID controller helps too :-).
> 
> 
> I hope you've got that box doing some inportant resource intensive job.
> Anything else would be disrespectful ;)

Editing with Vi.  ;-)



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 11:57:40 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:57:40 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <200310131441.52153.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <3F8A9334.6090607@rogers.com>

JM wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible to 
> using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal IP?
> 
> if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to be 
> multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?

You can assign an alias IP, if that's what you're asking about.  As for 
security, depending on how you're connected, you may expose that alias 
to others.



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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 12:50:58 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 08:50:58 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031013001339.12065A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031013001339.12065A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <200310130850.58902.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 13 October 2003 01:05, Henry Spencer wrote:

> (* You can deduct business losses -- roughly speaking, the excess of
> business expenses over business income -- against other income, e.g. from
> employment, *provided* the Feds believe that your business is legitimate
> and is truly intended to earn a profit.  This is an area which has seen
> many abuses, so any business which makes losses, year after year, that
> are then deducted against employment income, had better have a really

I believe that "reasonable expectation of profit" is no longer a valid test 
for CCRA.  There was a supreme court ruling on May 23, 2002 that says "Where 
the nature of an activity is clearly commercial, there is no need to analyse 
the taxpayer's business decisions".  So you can lose money ad-infinitum ... 
this is from "The 10 Secrets Revenue Canada Doesn't Want You To Know" by 
David Voth (2002 edition).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:07:23 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:07:23 -0400
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
In-Reply-To: <200310091502.01518.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310091445.29466.fraser@wehave.net> <200310091502.01518.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310131007.23751.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 09 October 2003 15:02, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Searching for unpatched IE vulnerabilities is pretty impressive:
>
>   http://security.itworld.com/4345/030929iehole/page_1.html
>
> This link may be a mirror of the one at PivX.com that is "under service
> review" ... might not be as well but it still looks intriguing:
>
>   http://www.spiceisle.com/nordpat/IEexploits.htm

http://www.pivx.com/larholm/unpatched/ has been updated (in reality removed), 
it makes one wonder:

    Given Microsoft's recent positive actions together with the current rise
    in attacks against IE we have agreed to give Microsoft a good faith
    reprieve and have taken down our 'Unpatched' page.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:33:23 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:33:23 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>	<20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com> <20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8AB7B3.7020700@truxtar.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> 
> Ok. Sorry, I'll be serious. I'll grant you, it is a fact that anyone can
> form a corp, but *not* anyone has the same advantages in forming that
> corp. I mean, c'mon, do you really think some little startup would stand
> a snowball's chance in hell against the monsters that dominate the
> business landscape? 

Where did all these "monsters that dominate the business landscape" come 
from in the first place?  Did they just pop out of nowhere?  Do you know 
the history of McDonalds?  Microsoft?  GM?  All where "little startups" 
once upon a time.


> What is the failure rate for new small businesses,
> like 90%? 

That means that 10% go on to make their owners financially free! 
Compare that to the 0% of people who work for someone else and go around 
complaining about how unfair life is.

> It is not an even playing field out there, and won't be until
> some of the power of large corporate entities is deconstructed, not
> by increasing government regulation, mind you, but by *decreasing*
> government protection of large corporate interests, for example where it
> applies to Intellectual Property law.   

That protection is in place to keep jealous, whining people like you 
(and the rest of the 'democracy'; i.e. 'mob rule') at bay, so the 
achievers can get some work done.

What exactly do you mean by "decreasing government protection"?  Let the 
people tell businesses how to run themselves?  How can someone who 
doesn't already own a successful business possibly know how run one?


>>>MS has it down cold ;-)
>>
>>You still haven't told me what would happen if Microsoft disappeared
>>in the next year (or at least a lawsuit ordered that no more than 50%
>>of all new computers must use Windows).  Isn't this your dream?
>
> Hell ya! I'd have the greatest job in the world, running around like a
> madman installing Linux on all those suddenly Windows-less machines, the
> internet would function more smoothly, there would be rejoicing in the
> streets, and Slashdot would disappear in a puff of irrelevancy. ;-)

I see a much more sad picture.  First of all, many computers already 
running Windose will be left without any security update, timely or not. 
Second, people who still want to use windows will start using more and 
more pirated copies of Windows; god knows what security holes those will 
have.  As for those who switch to Linux, their computers will be no more 
secure than before, because as many discussions on this list have 
pointed out, security is a process, not a product; it is the 
responsibility of the end user.  There will never be enough time to 
educate everyone if you are "running around like a madman installing 
Linux".  We would be no better of then we are now, except that your 
personal dreams of "running around like a madman installing Linux" will 
be satisfied.

I will say this again and for the last time:

"Education is the key to solving this and other problems in our society. 
  Not protests, not lawsuits, not getting the government to create or 
destroy regulations, but EDUCATION."

I think we should end this discussion as it is loosing its academic 
value (if it ever had any).


-- 
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

  "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
  - Some bad guy from 007
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:39:45 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:39:45 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. to lock
 out...)
In-Reply-To: <20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net>
 <20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131019160.12910@ns.istop.com>

On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> Even Evolutionary Biologists have begun to see a pattern which looks
> very much like a tendency for humans to naturally form stable and
> self-sustaining communities as an "evolutionary advantage", similar to
> the way we form physical traits as per the same.

I guess you haven't read liviticus?  Does it describe a stable and
self-sustaining community?  Maybe but certainly not a desirable one.
http://ns.istop.com/~ralph/bible/03_LEVIT.HTM

People need only look around the world to see that we haven't evolved
socially very much from homo erectus.

You can argue until you're blue in the face about your preferred form of
gov't/politics.  If you aren't trying to leech off the system then your
efforts are better spent making changes that put your desitiny under your
own control.

-Ralph
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:41:24 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:41:24 -0400
Subject: Linux versus Windows viruses
In-Reply-To: <200310131007.23751.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310091445.29466.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310091502.01518.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310131007.23751.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031013104124.3f3fc313.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:07:23 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> http://www.pivx.com/larholm/unpatched/ has been updated (in reality
> removed), it makes one wonder:
> 
>     Given Microsoft's recent positive actions together with the
>     current rise in attacks against IE we have agreed to give
>     Microsoft a good faith reprieve and have taken down our
>     'Unpatched' page.

Ya, I saw that on Slashdot, I don't know where they get their "good
faith", since MS has never shown one iota. I'm not totally familiar with
pivx, is it possible there was some "dialogue" with MS involved?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ninety percent of everything is crap.
		-- Theodore Sturgeon
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:44:46 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:44:46 -0400
Subject: off-topic political meandering (was Re: B.I.O.S. to
 lock out...)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131019160.12910-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012060857.3cb9e20a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031012140919.6155A-100000@spsystems.net>
	<20031012154304.2e158f52.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131019160.12910@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031013104446.1b46c227.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:39:45 -0400 (EDT)
Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I guess you haven't read liviticus?

The Bible?! Now this thread is *really* done, LOL!

Oh, and it's "Leviticus".

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can't run away forever,
But there's nothing wrong with getting a good head start.
		-- Jim Steinman, "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through"
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:46:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:46:09 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F8AB7B3.7020700-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
	<20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com>
	<20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F8AB7B3.7020700@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20031013104609.5f6cf8b4.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:33:23 -0400
Anton Markov <anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> jealous, whining people like you 

Hmmm, ad hominem attacks.

Game, set, and match. ;-)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:54:29 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <3F8AB7B3.7020700-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
 <20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com>
 <20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F8AB7B3.7020700@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131045270.12910@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Anton Markov wrote:

> JoeHill wrote:
> >
> > Ok. Sorry, I'll be serious. I'll grant you, it is a fact that anyone can
> > form a corp, but *not* anyone has the same advantages in forming that
> > corp. I mean, c'mon, do you really think some little startup would stand
> > a snowball's chance in hell against the monsters that dominate the
> > business landscape?
>
> Where did all these "monsters that dominate the business landscape" come
> from in the first place?  Did they just pop out of nowhere?  Do you know
> the history of McDonalds?  Microsoft?  GM?  All where "little startups"
> once upon a time.

And I guess I'm a snowball in hell.  I started a small ISP 4 years ago
that is competing against the Bell monster.

The other point is you don't even have to compete against the "monsters".
Lots of small companies became successful providing products or services
to the "monsters".

My success in business is without any silver spoon to give me a leg up; I
grew up in rural Nova Scotia and my father was a unionized worker at
Sysco Steel.

-Ralph
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 11:59:52 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:59:52 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310130250380.4384-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310130250380.4384-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F8A93B8.4000504@rogers.com>

Everything, including the internet connection would have to run through 
the hub.  This may cause security problems.

The best bet, would be to buy on of those cheap firewall/router/NAT 
boxes or build a Linux equivalent.


Justin Zygmont wrote:
> you can do that, but how will you be able to have a cable for your 
> outgoing IP and a cable to the hub for the internal IP, all on the the 
> same NIC? :)
> 
> 
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, JM wrote:
> 
> 
>>Hi,
>>
>>I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible to 
>>using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal IP?
>>
>>if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to be 
>>multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?
>>
>>TIA
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 14:58:58 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:58:58 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131045270.12910-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
	<20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com>
	<20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F8AB7B3.7020700@truxtar.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131045270.12910@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031013105858.0f0fcb05.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 10:54:29 -0400 (EDT)
Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> And I guess I'm a snowball in hell.  I started a small ISP 4 years ago
> that is competing against the Bell monster.
> 
> The other point is you don't even have to compete against the
> "monsters". Lots of small companies became successful providing
> products or services to the "monsters".
> 
> My success in business is without any silver spoon to give me a leg
> up; I grew up in rural Nova Scotia and my father was a unionized
> worker at Sysco Steel.

Good for you! Nice anecdote, thanks.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can't run away forever,
But there's nothing wrong with getting a good head start.
		-- Jim Steinman, "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through"
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 15:01:44 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:01:44 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <3F8A93B8.4000504-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310130250380.4384-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
	<3F8A93B8.4000504@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031013110144.5c5d9cac.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 07:59:52 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> The best bet, would be to buy on of those cheap firewall/router/NAT 
> boxes or build a Linux equivalent.

http://leaf.sourceforge.net/

http://www.bbiagent.net/

http://www.clarkconnect.org/index.php

or for the truly paranoid

http://www.smoothwall.org/

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The farther you go, the less you know.
		-- Lao Tsu, "Tao Te Ching"
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 16:01:33 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:01:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: repairing damage iso file (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131158200.5295-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

something useful I didn't know was possible.  (forwarded from the redhat 
list)


> hi am downloading rh9 from one of the mirrors of redhat now as i md5sum
> the disk1 i have a 'mismatched one' is there a way to fix not
> re-download the file...
> someone mentioned using rsync but don't know how to use it....

citation of amassage from Hoyt Duff

This example of rsync should allow you to "fix" a munged ISO image, for 
example when you have spent considerable time downloading a copy of an
ISO and it fails the md5sum test.

rsync -auv <fully qualified domain name of rsync server>::<full path
name to iso image with no leading / after the ::> <local iso image -
same name as on the server>

I have successfully used (all on one line):

rsync -auv 
csociety-ftp.ecn.purdue.edu::pub/redhat/linux/beta/phoebe/en/iso/i386/phoebe-i386-disc1.iso phoebe-i386-disc1.iso


You should replace phoebe by shrike or whatever you are trying to
download.


Regards
Peter









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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 16:39:15 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 12:39:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <200310130850.58902.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310130850.58902.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031013115029.20031A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> > ... *provided* the Feds believe that your business is legitimate
> > and is truly intended to earn a profit.  This is an area which has seen
> > many abuses, so any business which makes losses, year after year, that
> > are then deducted against employment income, had better have a really
> 
> I believe that "reasonable expectation of profit" is no longer a valid test 
> for CCRA.  There was a supreme court ruling on May 23, 2002 that says "Where 
> the nature of an activity is clearly commercial, there is no need to analyse 
> the taxpayer's business decisions".

Careful here.  If I remember that ruling correctly, the issue there was
lack of profits rather than lack of reasonable expectation of profit. 

The question was whether CCRA could claim that something which sure looked
like a business really wasn't, because it never earned a profit and, on
close inspection, seemed unlikely ever to.  The answer was that an inept
businessman is still a businessman, and the fact that he never succeeded
didn't mean he wasn't trying.  This didn't change the fundamental
"reasonable expectation of profit" definition of business, it just slapped
down an attempt to be overly narrow about what's "reasonable". 

Note that I didn't say you were in trouble if your business lost money
year after year.  I said you were in trouble if it lost money year after
year *and* you couldn't make a convincing argument that it's really a
business.  An occasional profit is the best argument, but it's not the
only one; however, you do need something.  Just declaring your basement
model railroad to be a business doesn't make it one. 

> So you can lose money ad-infinitum ... 

*If* you are "clearly commercial".  That, if you *do* have that convincing
argument that it's really a business despite continuing losses.  Good luck
convincing a court that the model railroad meets that criterion. 

> this is from "The 10 Secrets Revenue Canada Doesn't Want You To Know" by 
> David Voth (2002 edition).

Mr. Voth conceivably might have commercial motives for exaggerating the
significance of that court decision.

Consult an expert before doing anything rash. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 17:17:59 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:17:59 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <200310122219.19938.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310111321420.4605-100000@tosh5100.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310111956160.2114@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <200310122219.19938.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131917440.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Saturday 11 October 2003 13:58, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> > Not true. In OpenBSD you just do it step by step and it works first time.
> > Just DON'T EVER LOSE THE ROOT PASSWORD or you'll need to reinstall. These
> > guys are serious about security.
>
> You couldn't mount the drive from rescue media and simply edit the password
> file?

Rofl. No.

Peter
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 17:39:55 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122046530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310121615440.25236@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> > On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > You are the only one who is getting spam from the list.
> >
> > Bullshit.  You can't know that unless you're running the list server.
>
> Or if I'm subscribed to the list. Which I am. I never got any spam from
> tlug, not now, and not ever.

Perhaps it would be a good idea to have an IQ test before allowing
subscribers on the list.  For amusement I'll explain in elementary terms
the problem with your logic.

You claimed I'm the only one getting spam from the list (because you say
you didn't get any).  If we were the only subscribers to the list, that
would be true.  However fact that the two of us are not the only ones that
have posted to the list is evidence that there are many other subscribers.

Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
spam through the list.

-Ralph

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 18:07:31 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:07:31 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122046530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310121615440.25236@ns.istop.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
> spam through the list.

Ok, poll time!

Who is getting spam from the list?

Me? Nosiree.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Faith is under the left nipple.
		-- Martin Luther
--
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 18:18:33 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:18:33 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122046530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310121615440.25236@ns.istop.com>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com> <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8AEC79.9010103@alteeve.com>

Poll Time!

  Who is geting tired of this childish spat?

Me! :)

Madison

JoeHill wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
> Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> 
>>Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
>>spam through the list.
> 
> 
> Ok, poll time!
> 
> Who is getting spam from the list?
> 
> Me? Nosiree.
> 


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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 18:23:16 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122046530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310121615440.25236@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com> <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131422130.1045@xword.rogers.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
> Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> >
> > Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
> > spam through the list.
>
> Ok, poll time!
>
> Who is getting spam from the list?
>
> Me? Nosiree.

    I received a single piece of spam.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 18:16:29 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:16:29 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <3F8AEC79.9010103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122046530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310121615440.25236@ns.istop.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com>
	<20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F8AEC79.9010103@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031013141629.42f32b57.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 14:18:33 -0400
Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

>   Who is geting tired of this childish spat?
> 
> Me! :)

Who wants gum?!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reality is bad enough, why should I tell the truth?
		-- Patrick Sky
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 18:40:27 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:40:27 +0200 (IST)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122046530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310121615440.25236@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132036200.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
> spam through the list.

No, but I have circumstantial proof of lack of complaints by anybody else
on the list about getting spam from the list during the last month or so
at least. Sorry for being picky but I'm tuning my spam filter by hand and
I take a keen interest in spam and headers.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 18:43:40 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:43:40 +0200 (IST)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310122046530.633@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310121615440.25236@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131906360.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132040550.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> Perhaps it would be a good idea to have an IQ test before allowing
> subscribers on the list.  For amusement I'll explain in elementary terms
> the problem with your logic.

For more amusement let's drop these comments.

Peter
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:09:49 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:09:49 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310120840140.13105@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131332470.18281@ns.istop.com> <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310131509.51350.marc@lijour.net>


I get spam too. The same as it has been described on the list.


Le 13 Octobre 2003 14:07, JoeHill a ?crit :
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
>
> Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
> > spam through the list.
>
> Ok, poll time!
>
> Who is getting spam from the list?
>
> Me? Nosiree.

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:13:00 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:13:00 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
Message-ID: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net>

Wiznet performance has been decreasing for the last months, according to my 
experience here.

Anybody who had already changed to another ISP?
My concern is to have a seemless move. I only operate a few personal and 
non-profit websites, but I care very much and I rely on them for my daily 
work.

Thank you for your feedbacks.

Marc

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:39:02 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:39:02 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel-3FyN9KwLBikOAsET96VVuuqpMbaZSuSF930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>        <3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com> <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8AFF56.8090009@rogers.com>

> Finally, one question that seems to keep coming up for me is how do you handle user
> authentication and "roaming profiles" in this type of a set-up? I can think of a few
> ways ... but I've never used Un*x in a true multi-user/desktop environment and wonder
> how this is done easily? Kerberos? LDAP? Or just basic Un*x authentication?

If the option presents itself, some type of diskless (NICs with boot 
ROMs) workstation setup sounds like it might work out for you. Depending 
on who logs in, the appropriate image gets executed and then personal 
dirs get mounted, either via NFS or SMB. It's easier to manage and 
probably more cost effective, and if you don't use thin clients you 
still have chassis' around so you can play with hardware. Speaking as a 
31 year old 'kid', I know I love playing with hardware ;)

As for what mechanism you'd use to do this, I don't know. I'm not a fan 
of kerberos but I know that the hospital I used to work at was 
implementing a single sign-on LDAP project across unix and windows 
envionments, but I've never implemented LDAP and don't know enough about 
it to hold an educated opinion. I've seen NIS/NIS+ and NFS used to 
accomplish just what it is you're after, though, and it is the classic 
unix method of doing it :)


-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:39:50 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir Alikadic)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131532210.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, (J) JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

J> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
J> Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
J> 
J> > 
J> > Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
J> > spam through the list.
J> 
J> Ok, poll time!
J> 
J> Who is getting spam from the list?
J> 
J> Me? Nosiree.

Me? Yessiree.

In fact, I received one the day before:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Return-Path: <steve.weiss-J1btbF6uMEmsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
Delivered-To: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org
Received: from lethe.ss.org (dsl.ss.org [206.108.5.1])
          by chimp.codemonkeys.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDBD53240C0
          for <emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:46:15 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix)
          id 1A3DC6D335; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:46:04 -0400 (EDT)
Delivered-To: tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org
Received: from 192.168.0.238 (m91-mp1.cvx2-a.bir.dial.ntli.net [62.255.48.91])
          by lethe.ss.org (Postfix) with SMTP id 0ADEC6D332
          for <tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>; Sat, 11 Oct 2003 16:46:02 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Steve" <steve.weiss-J1btbF6uMEmsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Subject: Our next dates are.......
Sender: "Steve" <steve.weiss-J1btbF6uMEmsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
Message-Id: <20031011204602.0ADEC6D332-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0
               tests=SPAM_PHRASE_05_08,SUBJ_REMOVE
               version=2.44

During the last 11 years we have been successfully presenting our training
seminars in the UK. We have now decided to let the rest of the world have a
chance! 

Listed here are the 3 seminars that we will be presenting in various
locations around the world between now and March 2004.

For further info please send us your details and we will send our
information pack by return.

[SNIP]

If sales training is not an issue for your company please reply to this
email with the word "DELETE" in the subject line.     We will remove your
details promptly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Or is this not what you'd consider SPAM somehow?
-- 
"If there's anything more important than my ego around,
 I want it caught and shot now."    [Zaphod Beeblebrox]

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:45:46 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:45:46 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <200310131513.02353.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F8B00EA.6020004@rogers.com>

> Wiznet performance has been decreasing for the last months, according to my 
> experience here.
> Anybody who had already changed to another ISP?

What's your price range?

I know this topic has been mentioned on the list before, and that of 
chat-c+hT0Pt6R4H3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org so I'd suggest searching the archives if available. I'd 
drop a link in here but I don't have one, dangitall.

Personally speaking, and I'm astounded to be saying anything good about 
Rogers, but after the financial insolvency of @home a couple years back, 
things have really settled down and it's quite reliable now. They have a 
hispeed-lite packages, can't remember the cost, that might prove doable 
for you. As much as I like throwing business the way of little or more 
indepent ISPs, sometimes getting your connectivity from big scary 
companies has its advantages, sadly.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:52:00 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir Alikadic)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:52:00 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132036200.586-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132036200.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131540120.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, (PLP) Peter L. Peres <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

PLP> 
PLP> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
PLP> 
PLP> > Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
PLP> > spam through the list.
PLP> 
PLP> No, but I have circumstantial proof of lack of complaints by anybody else
PLP> on the list about getting spam from the list during the last month or so
PLP> at least. Sorry for being picky but I'm tuning my spam filter by hand and
PLP> I take a keen interest in spam and headers.

So do I, Peter.  I have Postfix + Procmail + SpamAssassin + Vipul's Razor set
and I *still* get SPAM from tlug.  I think you're all unfairly attacking Ralph
for bringing up this issue.

Furthermore, I think your suggestion to tune your SPAM filters is ridiculous:
it just deals with the symptoms and leaves the real problem untackled.  Don't
you think we should secure the server or do you really think we should just
all implement individual filtering schemes?
-- 
"If there's anything more important than my ego around,
 I want it caught and shot now."    [Zaphod Beeblebrox]

--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:52:26 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:52:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <3F8B00EA.6020004-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <3F8B00EA.6020004@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131547050.11535@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Byron Sonne wrote:

> > Wiznet performance has been decreasing for the last months, according to my
> > experience here.
> > Anybody who had already changed to another ISP?
>
> Personally speaking, and I'm astounded to be saying anything good about
> Rogers, but after the financial insolvency of @home a couple years back,
> things have really settled down and it's quite reliable now.

Marc refered to hosting a few sites, so either he's asking about hosting
service or access service that allows servers.  I didn't think Rogers was
an option in either category.

For ADSL/PPPoE access, it's easy to make a smooth switch.  Get the login
for your new ISP, drop your DNS ttl the day before, try the new login and
switch everything over if it works.

The thing some people don't realize is that if your ADSL loop was
activated through an ISP like Wiznet that you can still use PPPoE logins
from other providers (i.e. @istop.com, @tht.net, ...)

-Ralph
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:41:12 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:41:12 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <3F8AFF56.8090009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
	<3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com>
	<50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
	<3F8AFF56.8090009@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031013154112.02a3ddb6.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:39:02 -0400
Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> If the option presents itself, some type of diskless (NICs with boot 
> ROMs) workstation setup sounds like it might work out for you.
> Depending on who logs in, the appropriate image gets executed and then
> personal dirs get mounted, either via NFS or SMB. It's easier to
> manage and probably more cost effective, and if you don't use thin
> clients you still have chassis' around so you can play with hardware.
> Speaking as a 31 year old 'kid', I know I love playing with hardware
> ;)
> 
> As for what mechanism you'd use to do this, I don't know. I'm not a
> fan of kerberos but I know that the hospital I used to work at was 
> implementing a single sign-on LDAP project across unix and windows 
> envionments, but I've never implemented LDAP and don't know enough
> about it to hold an educated opinion. I've seen NIS/NIS+ and NFS used
> to accomplish just what it is you're after, though, and it is the
> classic unix method of doing it :)

The recent Samba 3 release might be the easiest method, it provides all
of the functionality of a Windows 2000 domain controller, and according
to reports, does it better too.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing is as simple as it seems at first
	Or as hopeless as it seems in the middle
		Or as finished as it seems in the end.
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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 20:02:49 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir Alikadic)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:02:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555380.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, (J) JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

J> UID: 16430
J> 
J> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 13:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
J> Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
J> 
J> > 
J> > Therefore you have no proof that I'm the only subscriber that received
J> > spam through the list.
J> 
J> Ok, poll time!
J> 
J> Who is getting spam from the list?
J> 
J> Me? Nosiree.

I just noticed that your mail account is @sympatico.ca, which leads me
to believe that you're not running your own mail server and thus server
side SPAM filtering is handled by Sympatico.  Don't you think it's possible
that Sympatico's filters might have detected the SPAM and deleted it before
you had a chance to download it?  That would certainly make you unqualified
to post on this thread with any authority on the issue.
-- 
"If there's anything more important than my ego around,
 I want it caught and shot now."    [Zaphod Beeblebrox]

--
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 20:06:12 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:06:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: P-166 for free
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I have a P-166 PC, 32 MB ram, PCI video, etc. and everything except for a 
harddrive sitting here that I want to get rid of.  Someone was going to just 
toss it out, but I saw it was still good, and the person who was going to 
take it, hasn't, so, if you want it, let me know.  Pickup near Finch and 
Leslie.




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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 21:10:00 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:10:00 -0400
Subject: P-166 for free
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F8B14A8.5030707@rogers.com>

Perhaps someone is interested in making a Linux firewall?

Justin Zygmont wrote:
> I have a P-166 PC, 32 MB ram, PCI video, etc. and everything except for a 
> harddrive sitting here that I want to get rid of.  Someone was going to just 
> toss it out, but I saw it was still good, and the person who was going to 
> take it, hasn't, so, if you want it, let me know.  Pickup near Finch and 
> Leslie.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 21:42:51 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:42:51 -0400
Subject: P-166 for free
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <3F8B14A8.5030707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <01a801c391d2$f3f22c00$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"James Knott" <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 13, 2003 5:10 PM
wrote:

> Perhaps someone is interested in making a Linux firewall?

I am currently running a P-166 with 32 MB of RAM (an old small Dell box) as
firewall/router on my home network, and it is something of an overkill in
this sort of role. Still, baring serious weirdness (like the machine in
question being a full height tower) I would suggest this could make for an
EXCELLENT firewall. Also, of note, lest anyone think the lack of a hard disk
might be an issue, there are several Linux firewall programs what once
configured will run happily without a hard drive (running just off the
floppy drive), as a starting point see:

http://www.coyotelinux.com/

or

http://leaf.sourceforge.net/

Colin McGregor

> Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > I have a P-166 PC, 32 MB ram, PCI video, etc. and everything except for
a
> > harddrive sitting here that I want to get rid of.  Someone was going to
just
> > toss it out, but I saw it was still good, and the person who was going
to
> > take it, hasn't, so, if you want it, let me know.  Pickup near Finch and
> > Leslie.

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 21:49:11 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:49:11 -0400
Subject: P-166 for free
In-Reply-To: <01a801c391d2$f3f22c00$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <3F8B14A8.5030707@rogers.com> <01a801c391d2$f3f22c00$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F8B1DD7.5070003@rogers.com>

Colin McGregor wrote:
> "James Knott" <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 13, 2003 5:10 PM
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Perhaps someone is interested in making a Linux firewall?
> 
> 
> I am currently running a P-166 with 32 MB of RAM (an old small Dell box) as
> firewall/router on my home network, and it is something of an overkill in
> this sort of role. Still, baring serious weirdness (like the machine in
> question being a full height tower) I would suggest this could make for an
> EXCELLENT firewall. Also, of note, lest anyone think the lack of a hard disk
> might be an issue, there are several Linux firewall programs what once
> configured will run happily without a hard drive (running just off the
> floppy drive), as a starting point see:

My current firewall is a Dell 166 MHz Pentium with 64 MB.  According to 
top, it runs about 99.4% idle.  The only problem with it, is that it's 
in a full size case.  I'd prefer a smaller case for a firewall.  My 
previous firewall was a 486 DX2-66 & 24 MB.  It generally ran about 94% 
idle.  However, it also had a smaller case.


I wonder what brand that free computer is?  Case style?



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 22:01:21 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:01:21 -0400
Subject: P-166 for free
In-Reply-To: <3F8B14A8.5030707-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
	<3F8B14A8.5030707@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031013180121.2c440396.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:10:00 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > I have a P-166 PC, 32 MB ram, PCI video, etc. and everything except
> > for a harddrive sitting here that I want to get rid of.  Someone was
> > going to just toss it out, but I saw it was still good, and the
> > person who was going to take it, hasn't, so, if you want it, let me
> > know.  Pickup near Finch and Leslie.

I could be there tomorrow AM!

I've got some spare HD's here and I'm itchin' fer a machine to test
Slackware on!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.
		-- Lao Tsu
--
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 22:19:03 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin Acton)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:19:03 -0400
Subject: P-166 for free
In-Reply-To: <3F8B1DD7.5070003-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
	 <3F8B14A8.5030707@rogers.com>
	 <01a801c391d2$f3f22c00$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
	 <3F8B1DD7.5070003@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1066083540.13625.3.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 17:49, James Knott wrote:
> The only problem with it, is that it's 
> in a full size case.  I'd prefer a smaller case for a firewall.  My 
> previous firewall was a 486 DX2-66 & 24 MB.  It generally ran about 94% 
> idle.  However, it also had a smaller case.

Off topic, I just bought a new system, and I decided to put it in an
e-cube (like Shuttle, but cheaper).  It's pretty awesome... it's clear
plastic (you can see the guts), it glows blue (neato), it's quiet, and
it runs cool (the P4 idles at room temperature, goes up to about 35 oC
during long compiles).

The whole thing is tiny, but deceptively heavy, like over ten pounds
easily.  The plan is to make a portable recording studio.

This would make the coolest looking firewall in town!

Austin
-- 
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 22:05:44 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:05:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310130250380.4384-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
    <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310130250380.4384-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <4764.216.138.194.32.1066082744.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> you can do that, but how will you be able to have a cable for your
> outgoing IP and a cable to the hub for the internal IP, all on the the
> same NIC? :)

     Inet
      |
     Hub --> firewall
      |
     LAN

It's risky security wise, but it's possible. Spend the $$ on another NIC.

-- 
Keith
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 22:17:14 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:17:14 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555380.15903-100000-G4iNdIupK6G7vFAssF7eVSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555380.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <20031013181714.14f40d27.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:02:49 -0400 (EDT)
Emir Alikadic <emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I just noticed that your mail account is @sympatico.ca, which leads me
> to believe that you're not running your own mail server and thus
> server side SPAM filtering is handled by Sympatico.  Don't you think
> it's possible that Sympatico's filters might have detected the SPAM
> and deleted it before you had a chance to download it?  That would
> certainly make you unqualified to post on this thread with any
> authority on the issue.

Actually, I've opted out of their spam filtering sol'n and implemented
my own. I monitor my logs quite often to check for false positives, and
so would notice any spam coming from this list or any other source.

Nice try at a troll, but I've dealt with the best.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow.
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 22:29:01 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:29:01 -0400
Subject: P-166 for free
In-Reply-To: <1066083540.13625.3.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555060.5804-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>	 <3F8B14A8.5030707@rogers.com>	 <01a801c391d2$f3f22c00$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>	 <3F8B1DD7.5070003@rogers.com> <1066083540.13625.3.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8B272D.6050702@rogers.com>

Austin Acton wrote:
> On Mon, 2003-10-13 at 17:49, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>The only problem with it, is that it's 
>>in a full size case.  I'd prefer a smaller case for a firewall.  My 
>>previous firewall was a 486 DX2-66 & 24 MB.  It generally ran about 94% 
>>idle.  However, it also had a smaller case.
> 
> 
> Off topic, I just bought a new system, and I decided to put it in an
> e-cube (like Shuttle, but cheaper).  It's pretty awesome... it's clear
> plastic (you can see the guts), it glows blue (neato), it's quiet, and
> it runs cool (the P4 idles at room temperature, goes up to about 35 oC
> during long compiles).
> 
> The whole thing is tiny, but deceptively heavy, like over ten pounds
> easily.  The plan is to make a portable recording studio.
> 
> This would make the coolest looking firewall in town!
> 
> Austin

My major concern with plastic cases, is the lack of RF shielding. 
You'll likely cause lots of interference.


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 22:22:34 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:22:34 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <4764.216.138.194.32.1066082744.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310130250380.4384-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
	<4764.216.138.194.32.1066082744.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031013182234.3ce4c450.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:05:44 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> It's risky security wise, but it's possible. Spend the $$ on another
> NIC.

I'll second that, it's an easy setup with most of the firewall sol'ns
out there, and to be honest, with my limited experience, I can't even
see the point of the firewall in that other config, other than as a DHCP
server or something. No security whatsoever as far as I can tell...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no comfort without pain; thus we define salvation through
suffering.
		-- Cato
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 22:14:35 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 18:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <200310131441.52153.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <4773.216.138.194.32.1066083275.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Hi,
>
> I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible
> to using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal
> IP?

As a proof of concept, yes it can be done. Should it be done? Not in
either a production environment or in a situation where any of the
machines is going to have Internet access, including the firewall.

> if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to
> be multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?

Security should be your biggest issue (although I'll venture a guess that
the top of your priority list is sharing a 'net connection). If you are
running applications on your firewall... not a good idea, all the more so
if the said box is uni-homed.

-- 
Keith
--
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:13:31 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:13:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <4764.216.138.194.32.1066082744.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <4764.216.138.194.32.1066082744.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131906360.6323-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

oh ya. and I guess you could never get the full speed of the NIC since 
they're using the same cable.  Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a 
1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be able 
to transfer that fast.


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> 
> > you can do that, but how will you be able to have a cable for your
> > outgoing IP and a cable to the hub for the internal IP, all on the the
> > same NIC? :)
> 
>      Inet
>       |
>      Hub --> firewall
>       |
>      LAN
> 
> It's risky security wise, but it's possible. Spend the $$ on another NIC.
> 
> 

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:02:23 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:02:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca><3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com><20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca><200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com>
    <20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <4825.216.138.194.32.1066086143.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<snip>
> Ok. Sorry, I'll be serious. I'll grant you, it is a fact that anyone can
> form a corp, but *not* anyone has the same advantages in forming that
> corp. I mean, c'mon, do you really think some little startup would stand
> a snowball's chance in hell against the monsters that dominate the
> business landscape? What is the failure rate for new small businesses,
> like 90%? It is not an even playing field out there, and won't be until
> some of the power of large corporate entities is deconstructed, not
> by increasing government regulation, mind you, but by *decreasing*
> government protection of large corporate interests, for example where it
> applies to Intellectual Property law.

I have to disagree after being in business as an incorporated entity for a
while now. Small businesses have it all over the big boys in terms of
versatility. We can offer competition where none exists, we can offer a
range of product offerings relatively unencumbered by contractual
obligations, and we can exploit small niche markets with a diversity that
the big boys drool over.

The failure rates of startups is almost 100% if you wait long enough, but
that doesn't mean anything except that some people can hang on a little
tighter than others when the going gets rough. I've gone flat broke here 3
times since starting out, and every time the recovery was just a little
bit stronger.

I suspect that if I was to wait until the government made things easier
and M$ got out of my way I'd still be working for someone else. So, you
can wait for that to happen, or you can do some things to try to make that
happen. Me, I prefer to just jump in and make things work. The obstacles
just make it interesting and fun.

>> > MS has it down cold ;-)
>>
>> You still haven't told me what would happen if Microsoft disappeared
>> in the next year (or at least a lawsuit ordered that no more than 50%
>> of all new computers must use Windows).  Isn't this your dream?
>
> Hell ya! I'd have the greatest job in the world, running around like a
> madman installing Linux on all those suddenly Windows-less machines, the
> internet would function more smoothly, there would be rejoicing in the
> streets, and Slashdot would disappear in a puff of irrelevancy. ;-)

I gotta say that's a bit narrow. First off, M$ would fold and re-open
under another name. The new corp would buy out the assets of the old corp
at a firesale price (and at a huge profit to themselves), and nothing
would change.

If Redmond, Utah and all the other M$ offices were to suddenly disappear
in an Al-Qaida/Iraqi/North Korean/McDonalds/IBM fit of rage though, and M$
was suddenly nowhere to be found to support their OSes...

-The script-kiddies would be having a field day with the next global exploit.
-MSCEs would be getting rich writing and selling patches.
-PC sales (and prices) would drop, hitting small computer business that
rely on this revenue stream.
-Macintosh sales will boom overnight. Steve Jobs will suddenly become the
most hated man on the planet.
-Many networks and domains that rely on M$ would never be seen again...
no, not all of them will convert.

And what's stopping you from installing linux on those windows machines
right now, but your attitude? Can't be done? I do it all the time. Have
you converted at least one computer in every home of all your family
members, or would you rather admit that just maybe linux isn't for
everyone, hm?

-- 
Keith
--
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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:21:07 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:21:07 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <200310131513.02353.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 03:13:00PM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> Wiznet performance has been decreasing for the last months, according to my 
> experience here.
> 
> Anybody who had already changed to another ISP?
> My concern is to have a seemless move. I only operate a few personal and 
> non-profit websites, but I care very much and I rely on them for my daily 
> work.

Wiznet has been really unstable lately, yes. The old velocet people have
started a new isp, eicat (eicat.ca). I'm probably going to switch to them
as soon as they have things off the ground.

My understanding is if you're using pppoe you can switch very easily, and
the services can overlap for a bit.

-cgm.
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:31:47 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:31:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131906360.6323-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131906360.6323-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131930440.19974@ns.istop.com>

Not just a fast PC, but a fast bus too.  Standard 33Mhz/32-bit PCI can't
handle full-duplex GigE.

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> oh ya. and I guess you could never get the full speed of the NIC since
> they're using the same cable.  Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a
> 1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be able
> to transfer that fast.
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:36:17 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:36:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131930440.19974-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131930440.19974@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131933430.6323-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

that's the thing, I read somewhere that 64 bit 66Mhz PCI was only 
533Mbps/sec, and AGP 4x was just barely enough for 1000Mbps/sec.  Not sure 
how true this still is, has anyone ever been lucky enough to use a card 
like this?


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> Not just a fast PC, but a fast bus too.  Standard 33Mhz/32-bit PCI can't
> handle full-duplex GigE.
> 
> Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> 6042147 Canada Inc.
> 
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
> > oh ya. and I guess you could never get the full speed of the NIC since
> > they're using the same cable.  Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a
> > 1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be able
> > to transfer that fast.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:31:52 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:31:52 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131540120.15903-100000-G4iNdIupK6G7vFAssF7eVSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132036200.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131540120.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <20031013193152.70773d73.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:52:00 -0400 (EDT)
Emir Alikadic <emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> So do I, Peter.  I have Postfix + Procmail + SpamAssassin + Vipul's
> Razor set and I *still* get SPAM from tlug.  I think you're all
> unfairly attacking Ralph for bringing up this issue.

Sorry, I didn't mean to attack anybody, was mostly trying to inject some
humour into what seemed like a pretty caustic exchange (ie. "bullshit").

But seriously, I have it set so that *any* mail to or from tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
is allowed through, with the exception of nigeria-scam and virus crap
which procmail snags for me using this:

http://agriroot.aua.gr/~nikant/nkvir/

I just did a grep of all my logs and spam/virus folders and there was
only *one* which got caught by procmail, and it was, ironically enough,
a mail from someone *complaining* about getting the nscam mail from the
list.

I don't disbelieve people who are saying they are getting spam from the
list, but it's strange that some are getting it and some are not, that's
all.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If something has not yet gone wrong then it would ultimately have been
beneficial for it to go wrong.
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:31:44 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:31:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031013001339.12065A-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
    <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031013001339.12065A-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <4842.216.138.194.32.1066087904.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Sun, 12 Oct 2003, Anton Markov wrote:
>> More importantly, a corporation pays taxes on its (or your) net profits
>> rather than gross cash flow as does an individual...
>
> This is true of any business, not just corporations.  It is not necessary
> to incorporate to deduct business expenses against business income (and
> even, indirectly, against employment income*).  Small businesses often
> are not incorporated.
>
> (* You can deduct business losses -- roughly speaking, the excess of
> business expenses over business income -- against other income, e.g. from
> employment, *provided* the Feds believe that your business is legitimate
> and is truly intended to earn a profit.  This is an area which has seen
> many abuses, so any business which makes losses, year after year, that
> are then deducted against employment income, had better have a really
> convincing story behind it if the Feds ask, which they will.  Otherwise
> they will decide that it's a hobby, meaning that its revenue is not
> income, its expenses are not deductible, and you're in trouble.)

There are some distinct advantages of being privately incorporated that
other business models con't allow for though.

With an incorporated company you have corporate costs. Things like annual
shareholders meetings, etc. Plus you can put the executive (yourself) on
salary and roll unpaid salary over into loans from shareholders,
decreasing stock value (each share costs more but is worth less because
the company owes that money back to the lendor) and the overall net worth
of the company. If you set the salary outside market parameters the feds
will jump all over you for a reasonable explaination.

You can also show annual losses just by showing expansion and growth in
the company as a result of reinvestment of all available profits rather
than paying them out in dividends at the end of the year. This has to be
decided at the annual shareholders meeting. :) If all profits go into
making the business a viable asset in the long run (10 years or so), the
feds actually get behind you and offer all sorts help you keep things
rolling along.

These are the reasons why we see companies stay in business in the red for
years when to the untrained eye they look to have no viability. As long as
you can pay your bills and the costs of keeping current are more than you
have available, you're safe.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:49:16 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:49:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <20031013232107.GA17893-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Chris MacDonald wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 03:13:00PM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Wiznet performance has been decreasing for the last months, according to my
> > experience here.
>
> Wiznet has been really unstable lately, yes. The old velocet people have
> started a new isp, eicat (eicat.ca). I'm probably going to switch to them
> as soon as they have things off the ground.

Dave and especially Adam are crooks; according to my lawyer they violated
the bankruptcy act but the trustee isn't willing to investigate it unless
I pay (for the investigation).  Even though it's criminal the police don't
seem interested (the potential criminal liability is "only" a few
thousand).  Of the close to $2 million owed to creditors by DSL.ca and
Velocet we were owed over $30K.

I checked out their web site and their prices are way above market; for
the $69/mth they want for a 3.5M/PPPoE service we give our customers a
non-PPPoE service.  If they have no bandwidth cap then that might explain
the high prices.

-Ralph
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:57:28 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:57:28 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <021501c391e5$c2180c00$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Chris MacDonald" <cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 13, 2003 7:21 PM
wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 03:13:00PM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur
d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Wiznet performance has been decreasing for the last months, according to
my
> > experience here.
> >
> > Anybody who had already changed to another ISP?
> > My concern is to have a seemless move. I only operate a few personal and
> > non-profit websites, but I care very much and I rely on them for my
daily
> > work.
>
> Wiznet has been really unstable lately, yes. The old velocet people have
> started a new isp, eicat (eicat.ca). I'm probably going to switch to them
> as soon as they have things off the ground.

I was at the Unix Unanimous meeting last Wednesday, and Dave Gilbert (former
head of Velocet) was there. Now, I don't quite follow what happened at
Velocet, but I gather it was in essance a hostile takeover. Further I gather
Dave and some other senior staff from Velocet are suing for wrongfull
dismissal. As part of the wrongfull dissmissal I would gather things are
helped if Dave and the senior staff are unable to find work. So, I would
gather that (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) Dave and crew have nothing to do with
any ISP... :-) .

Colin McGregor

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:47:16 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:47:16 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <4825.216.138.194.32.1066086143.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
	<20031012200011.007467e1.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310122358.05750.anton@truxtar.com>
	<20031013010504.2665be8e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<4825.216.138.194.32.1066086143.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031013194716.15a1ea5b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:02:23 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> And what's stopping you from installing linux on those windows
> machines right now, but your attitude? Can't be done? I do it all the
> time. Have you converted at least one computer in every home of all
> your family members, or would you rather admit that just maybe linux
> isn't for everyone, hm?

Okay, this list needs some serious injection of a sense of humour and a
wholesale hosing out of hostility. Sheesh.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The soul would have no rainbow had the eyes no tears.
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:56:54 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:56:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <4842.216.138.194.32.1066087904.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>    <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031013001339.12065A-100000@spsystems.net>
 <4842.216.138.194.32.1066087904.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131951460.19974@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> There are some distinct advantages of being privately incorporated that
> other business models con't allow for though.

You never even mentioned one of the biggest advantages; the $400K
lifetime ($100K/yr) exemption on capital gains from the sale of QSB
shares.  And if you setup the appropriate corporate structure you can
insulate yourself from 100% of the liability.

And if you don't mind following the lead of the mafioso casino gangsters,
setting up a Nevada corporation *appears* to have additional benefits.

-Ralph
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 00:02:20 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:02:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <021501c391e5$c2180c00$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>
 <021501c391e5$c2180c00$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131958100.19974@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Colin McGregor wrote:

> "Chris MacDonald" <cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 13, 2003 7:21 PM
> wrote:
>
> I was at the Unix Unanimous meeting last Wednesday, and Dave Gilbert (former
> head of Velocet) was there. Now, I don't quite follow what happened at
> Velocet, but I gather it was in essance a hostile takeover.

Last year Dave claimed they bought Wiznet.  Later he said it was a
"merger".  If he and his motley crew are suing Wiznet (Jeff Mason) then
that could be to my benefit; their address for service will be in the
public court documents.  Without that it's a lot harder for me to sue
them.

-Ralph
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:36:04 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:36:04 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131906360.6323-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <4764.216.138.194.32.1066082744.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131906360.6323-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031013193604.75fb06b7.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:13:31 -0400 (EDT)
Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a 
> 1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be
> able to transfer that fast.

You'd also need to have a bigger PCI slot, no? I've got one of those in
my machine, don't use it cuz there's no point, not even sure if it's
supported in Mandrake. The slot is longer, isn't it called "32 bit" as
opposed to "16 bit" or something?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He who knows others is wise.
He who knows himself is enlightened.
		-- Lao Tsu
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:51:23 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:51:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <200310122351.22279.anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com> <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net>
    <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<snip>
>> Being incorporated also provides you with only very limited protection
>> against lawsuits.  Search google for director's liability.
>>
>> > If someone sues you personally, you can get thrown in jail, your
>> > possessions can be confiscated, etc.  If someone sues your company
>> > even if it consists solely of you, you can just file for bankruptcy
>> > and go do something else.
<snip>

It's not that easy. Filing for bankruptcy costs money, and so does
unincorporation. When you file your articles of corporation they make it
abundantly clear that the principles are personally responsible for
liability, as does the bank when they grant or extend credit. If the corp
owes money, the creditors can come to you for it. You cannot just run a
business into the ground and walk away with a profit anymore. It's
illegal.

I don't think you can unincorporate until your books are free and clear
and the creditors have been paid or those matters have been settled for
the corporation. Until you do, it's still a viable entity and can come
back to haunt you later.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 00:08:04 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:08:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131933430.6323-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131933430.6323-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132004430.19974@ns.istop.com>

*sigh*
(64bits/(8bits/byte)) * 66.6Mhz = 533MBytes/sec = 4266mbps.

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> that's the thing, I read somewhere that 64 bit 66Mhz PCI was only
> 533Mbps/sec, and AGP 4x was just barely enough for 1000Mbps/sec.  Not sure
> how true this still is, has anyone ever been lucky enough to use a card
> like this?
>
>
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> > Not just a fast PC, but a fast bus too.  Standard 33Mhz/32-bit PCI can't
> > handle full-duplex GigE.
> >
> > Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> > 6042147 Canada Inc.
> >
> > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> >
> > > oh ya. and I guess you could never get the full speed of the NIC since
> > > they're using the same cable.  Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a
> > > 1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be able
> > > to transfer that fast.
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
>
> --
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>
>
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 23:49:10 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:49:10 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131933430.6323-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131933430.6323-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F8B39F6.50504@alteeve.com>

PCI-X = 64bit Bus x 133MHz = 1,064,000,000bytes/sec (~1.014GB/sec)
64bit PCI = 64bit Bus x 66MHz = 528,000,000bytes/sec (~503MB/sec)
32bit PCI = 32bit Bus x 33MHz = 132,000,000bytes/sec (~126MB/sec)

1Gbit = 125,000,000bytes/sec (~119MB/sec) MAX, you never really get it. 
Even full duplex (~238MB/sec) you still only half saturate the PCI bus. 
In reality you are lucky to get ~3/4 of the actual speed and then there 
is the rarity of actually fully saturating both incoming and outgoing 
ports.

HTH!

Madison

Justin Zygmont wrote:
> that's the thing, I read somewhere that 64 bit 66Mhz PCI was only 
> 533Mbps/sec, and AGP 4x was just barely enough for 1000Mbps/sec.  Not sure 
> how true this still is, has anyone ever been lucky enough to use a card 
> like this?
> 
> 
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> 
> 
>>Not just a fast PC, but a fast bus too.  Standard 33Mhz/32-bit PCI can't
>>handle full-duplex GigE.
>>
>>Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
>>6042147 Canada Inc.
>>
>>On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
>>
>>
>>>oh ya. and I guess you could never get the full speed of the NIC since
>>>they're using the same cable.  Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a
>>>1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be able
>>>to transfer that fast.
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 00:21:15 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:21:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>   
 <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com> <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net>   
 <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com> <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> I don't think you can unincorporate until your books are free and clear
> and the creditors have been paid or those matters have been settled for
> the corporation. Until you do, it's still a viable entity and can come
> back to haunt you later.

I guess you didn't read my post about Dave & crew (Velocet/DSL.ca); you
can contact the trustee ("Judd, Gregory M." <gjudd-dvAlpm8UpAg at public.gmane.org>) for
confirmation that they walked away owing creditors ~$2M.

Last I heard, Dave was still driving a nice new Lincoln Navigator and just
finished building a new custom house.

-Ralph

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 00:28:36 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:28:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <3F8B39F6.50504-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131933430.6323-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <3F8B39F6.50504@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132023410.19974@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Madison Kelly wrote:

> In reality you are lucky to get ~3/4 of the actual speed and then there
> is the rarity of actually fully saturating both incoming and outgoing
> ports.

I've seen stats from many GigE router ports running > 500mbps full-duplex.
You won't see it on a PC since there's no open-source, widely-used OS that
can route >1million packets/sec.  It can be done on a modest (1-2Ghz) CPU
if someone with clue takes the time to write the code...

-Ralph
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 00:47:52 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:47:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <20031013193604.75fb06b7.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031013193604.75fb06b7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310132046460.6832-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

sounds like you have a 64 bit PCI card, nice.. wanna trade your 
computer for my P-166? :)


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 19:13:31 -0400 (EDT)
> Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a 
> > 1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be
> > able to transfer that fast.
> 
> You'd also need to have a bigger PCI slot, no? I've got one of those in
> my machine, don't use it cuz there's no point, not even sure if it's
> supported in Mandrake. The slot is longer, isn't it called "32 bit" as
> opposed to "16 bit" or something?
> 
> 

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 00:56:39 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:56:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132004430.19974-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132004430.19974@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310132055230.6832-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

ah, I hate mixing up bits and bytes, that's not bad anyways.


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> *sigh*
> (64bits/(8bits/byte)) * 66.6Mhz = 533MBytes/sec = 4266mbps.
> 
> Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> 6042147 Canada Inc.
> 
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
> > that's the thing, I read somewhere that 64 bit 66Mhz PCI was only
> > 533Mbps/sec, and AGP 4x was just barely enough for 1000Mbps/sec.  Not sure
> > how true this still is, has anyone ever been lucky enough to use a card
> > like this?
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> >
> > > Not just a fast PC, but a fast bus too.  Standard 33Mhz/32-bit PCI can't
> > > handle full-duplex GigE.
> > >
> > > Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> > > 6042147 Canada Inc.
> > >
> > > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > >
> > > > oh ya. and I guess you could never get the full speed of the NIC since
> > > > they're using the same cable.  Also, speaking about NICs, I just saw a
> > > > 1000BaseT ethernet card for only about $40, must take a fast PC to be able
> > > > to transfer that fast.
> > > --
> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > >
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> >
> >
> --
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> 

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From kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 01:00:03 2003
From: kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Kristofer Coward)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:00:03 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org>

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 07:49:16PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> Dave and especially Adam are crooks; according to my lawyer they violated
> the bankruptcy act but the trustee isn't willing to investigate it unless
> I pay (for the investigation).  Even though it's criminal the police don't
> seem interested (the potential criminal liability is "only" a few
> thousand).  Of the close to $2 million owed to creditors by DSL.ca and
> Velocet we were owed over $30K.
> 
> I checked out their web site and their prices are way above market; for
> the $69/mth they want for a 3.5M/PPPoE service we give our customers a
> non-PPPoE service.  If they have no bandwidth cap then that might explain
> the high prices.

As far as I can tell, current market prices for residential DSL (if not
also for business DSL) are too low to support the quality of customer
service that Velocet provided[0] (pre-Wiznet). Given the choice of
"screwing" their customers (through either higher prices, or through
poorer service), their employees, or their suppliers and creditors,
they appear to have opted to screw the latter.

This seems to have been largely a result some naivete with respect to
the willingness of some of their customers to screw them (esp. during
the .com crash) some hubris with respect to how much Linux/BSD use
lowered their costs, and the desire to be liked by their clients and
employees (because the clients pay the bills--well almost--, and high
employee morale makes their working life more enjoyable).

I was generally very satisfied with the quality of the service they
provided, and am somewhat inclined to look out more for my interests
than the interests of my ISP's suppliers and creditors. I also some
degree of hope that the slightly higher prices I'm seeing mean that
they aren't operating quite so crookedly now. I'm not saying I'd
necessarily loan them any money, or sell them anything on credit, but I
feel comfortable enough purchasing internet services from them.

0) eg. actually providing some degree of real Linux/Unix tech support
-- 
Kristofer Coward				http://unripe.melon.org/
GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733  830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 00:56:33 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:56:33 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310132046460.6832-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031013193604.75fb06b7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310132046460.6832-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031013205633.73472345.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:47:52 -0400 (EDT)
Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> sounds like you have a 64 bit PCI card, nice.. wanna trade your 
> computer for my P-166? :)

LOL! No thanks, this machine was...well...a steal ;-)

If only I had a network to connect to that would do GB Ethernet...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If the path be beautiful, let us not ask where it leads.
		-- Anatole France
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 01:33:36 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:33:36 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <20031014010003.GC466-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com> <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Kristofer Coward wrote:

> As far as I can tell, current market prices for residential DSL (if not
> also for business DSL) are too low to support the quality of customer
> service that Velocet provided[0] (pre-Wiznet).
[...]
> 0) eg. actually providing some degree of real Linux/Unix tech support

That's news to me; we've been offering a full-service account for ages
@$34.49/mth.  For Linux we were supporting RP and Jamal Hadi &  Andi
Kleen's PPPoE clients for 2.2 (we recommended Jamal & Andi's).  On 2.4 we
support the kernel built-in PPPoE.  We've even helped a few customers
using BSD.

-Ralph
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 01:18:39 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:18:39 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: Message from Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Mon, 13 Oct 2003 20:21:15 EDT." <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com> <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net> <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com> <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>  <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031014011840.41FB93FEE@cbbrowne.com>

> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
> 
> > I don't think you can unincorporate until your books are free and clear
> > and the creditors have been paid or those matters have been settled for
> > the corporation. Until you do, it's still a viable entity and can come
> > back to haunt you later.
> 
> I guess you didn't read my post about Dave & crew (Velocet/DSL.ca); you
> can contact the trustee ("Judd, Gregory M." <gjudd-dvAlpm8UpAg at public.gmane.org>) for
> confirmation that they walked away owing creditors ~$2M.
> 
> Last I heard, Dave was still driving a nice new Lincoln Navigator and just
> finished building a new custom house.

Ah, but was Dave one of the officers of the corporation?  Or just an
employee?

If he was the latter, then he likely isn't considered legally
responsible for any of the company's debts.

If he _was_ an officer, then it's entirely possible that the story is
not yet complete.

You can almost certainly find instances of virtually any sort of
situation you wish to; figuring out which scenarios are actually common
and typical is not a trivial matter.
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="acm.org" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;;
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/lsf.html
"While preceding your entrance with a grenade is a good tactic in
Quake, it can lead to problems if attempted at work."    -- C Hacking
-- http://home.xnet.com/~raven/Sysadmin/ASR.Quotes.html
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 02:15:13 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:15:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031014011840.41FB93FEE-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
 <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net> <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com>
 <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> 
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974@ns.istop.com>  <20031014011840.41FB93FEE@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132211550.13348@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> Ah, but was Dave one of the officers of the corporation?  Or just an
> employee?

>From what I recall he was a director of Velocet.  I think it might be
indicated on the creditor list from the trustee if I dig up the file
again...

I realize anecdotes are not statistically significant, but they are
factually significant.

-Ralph

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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 02:27:48 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:27:48 -0400
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com> <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net> <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com> <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>  <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974@ns.istop.com>  <20031014011840.41FB93FEE@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <035501c391fa$c27b0700$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

<cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 13, 2003 9:18 PM wrote:

> > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
> >
> > > I don't think you can unincorporate until your books are free and
clear
> > > and the creditors have been paid or those matters have been settled
for
> > > the corporation. Until you do, it's still a viable entity and can come
> > > back to haunt you later.
> >
> > I guess you didn't read my post about Dave & crew (Velocet/DSL.ca); you
> > can contact the trustee ("Judd, Gregory M." <gjudd-dvAlpm8UpAg at public.gmane.org>) for
> > confirmation that they walked away owing creditors ~$2M.
> >
> > Last I heard, Dave was still driving a nice new Lincoln Navigator and
just
> > finished building a new custom house.
>
> Ah, but was Dave one of the officers of the corporation?  Or just an
> employee?

Around Dave Gilbert I feel I have to wear multiple hats. As a Board Member
for the Toronto Free-Net I am thankful for the very real assistance he has
offered to the Free-Net in the past.

On the other hand at past Unix Unanimous meetings I have found that I have
to take some of the things Dave says with a grain (or more) of salt, as he
seems to willing to talk authoritatively in areas where his knowledge seems
more limited than he is willing to let on. So, while I appreciate the stuff
he has done for the Free-Net, and I think of him as a good person to have
around a dinner table (which has happened a number of times after the Unix
Unanimous meetings). However, would I trust him enough to lend him my $, or
would I be willing to go into business with him? Well, the answer is no.

Now, coming to the nasty stuff some on this list have said about Dave, I do
NOT think the man is intentionally crocked. On the other hand I do think the
man may get himself in over his head and maybe not realise he is over his
head...

> If he was the latter, then he likely isn't considered legally
> responsible for any of the company's debts.
>
> If he _was_ an officer, then it's entirely possible that the story is
> not yet complete.
>
> You can almost certainly find instances of virtually any sort of
> situation you wish to; figuring out which scenarios are actually common
> and typical is not a trivial matter.

Colin McGregor

--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:03:39 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:03:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <035501c391fa$c27b0700$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com>
 <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net> <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com>
 <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> 
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974@ns.istop.com>  <20031014011840.41FB93FEE@cbbrowne.com>
 <035501c391fa$c27b0700$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132248550.24805@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Colin McGregor wrote:

> Now, coming to the nasty stuff some on this list have said about Dave, I do
> NOT think the man is intentionally crocked. On the other hand I do think the
> man may get himself in over his head and maybe not realise he is over his
> head...

If you mean that his primary intent in business wasn't to screw his
suppliers then I would agree.  However I have proof that he intentionally
perpetuated a crooked act.  The bankruptcy act requires a company upon
filing to notify all its suppliers that it has done so.  My company was
providing services to Velocet at the time.  Knowing that I would require
cash payment for services once I found out about the bankruptcy, Dave &
crew decided not to tell me about it.  Dave claimed he wanted to tell me
but was out-voted by the other directors (presumably Jeff Mason, Adam
Heaney and Chris Chasse).  "My peers made me do it" doesn't cut it as an
excuse for stealing.

Hmmm... now that I've written that it makes me think that if I present it
to the police as a case of theft over and fraud, maybe they will give it
a serious investigation...

-Ralph

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 02:54:33 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:54:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031009094509.0679a278.joehill@sympatico.ca>  
    <3F89DE15.7030506@truxtar.com> <200310122306.36917.fraser@wehave.net>  
    <200310122351.22279.anton@truxtar.com>
    <4868.216.138.194.32.1066089083.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132017520.19974@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <1145.216.138.194.32.1066100073.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> I don't think you can unincorporate until your books are free and clear
>> and the creditors have been paid or those matters have been settled for
>> the corporation. Until you do, it's still a viable entity and can come
>> back to haunt you later.
>
> I guess you didn't read my post about Dave & crew (Velocet/DSL.ca); you
> can contact the trustee ("Judd, Gregory M." <gjudd-dvAlpm8UpAg at public.gmane.org>) for
> confirmation that they walked away owing creditors ~$2M.
>
> Last I heard, Dave was still driving a nice new Lincoln Navigator and
> just finished building a new custom house.

I dunno if they did a Maryland Incorporation and extended it up here, but
that sounds like it might be so, or they just plain old broke the law and
are daring the creditors to come get it. If they're officers, they're
liable.

I had a client a couple years back that just disappeared. It just wasn't
there. I first noticed it because I had email from swatch telling me their
systems were down. Well, they weren't just down... they were gone, and so
was everything else (it was a publically traded company, yada yada yada
-the principles scooted).

The collection agency advised that it wasn't worth going after the
principles for the balance they owed me because there was no fix on how to
find them. I had to write it off and I'm none too happy about it. If you
can find these guys and they owe you money, hit 'em for it and recoup your
costs in jugdement. Then it's just like going after any other deadbeat.

Sometimes the cost of staying in business sux.

Cheers,

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:11:59 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:11:59 -0400
Subject: tar backup to remote tape drive
In-Reply-To: <3F88402C.2030704-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F87322B.7050901@rogers.com> <3F88402C.2030704@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031014031159.GB2039@m433>

On Sat, Oct 11, 2003 at 01:38:52PM -0400, Byron Sonne wrote

> tar -cevf - / | ssh sheridan buffer -u 100 -B -t -p 75 -o /dev/nst0

  On a tangent, this remote backup idea looks cute.  Would...

tar -cevf - / | ssh sheridan bzip2 \> backup.tar.bz2

work ?  Maybe the stream should go to a script on the target machine, so
we don't have to worry about escaping the redirection command ?

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:17:07 2003
From: kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Kristofer Coward)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:17:07 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com> <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031014031707.GD466@melon.org>

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 09:33:36PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Kristofer Coward wrote:
> 
> > As far as I can tell, current market prices for residential DSL (if not
> > also for business DSL) are too low to support the quality of customer
> > service that Velocet provided[0] (pre-Wiznet).
> [...]
> > 0) eg. actually providing some degree of real Linux/Unix tech support
> 
> That's news to me; we've been offering a full-service account for ages
> @$34.49/mth.  For Linux we were supporting RP and Jamal Hadi &  Andi
> Kleen's PPPoE clients for 2.2 (we recommended Jamal & Andi's).  On 2.4 we
> support the kernel built-in PPPoE.  We've even helped a few customers
> using BSD.

If you're making money on that front, I guess you've proven me wrong.

-- 
Kristofer Coward				http://unripe.melon.org/
GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733  830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:06:47 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:06:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <20031014031707.GD466-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net>
    <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com>
    <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com>
    <20031014031707.GD466@melon.org>
Message-ID: <1205.216.138.194.32.1066100807.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<snip>
>> That's news to me; we've been offering a full-service account for ages
>> @$34.49/mth.  For Linux we were supporting RP and Jamal Hadi &  Andi
>> Kleen's PPPoE clients for 2.2 (we recommended Jamal & Andi's).  On 2.4
>> we support the kernel built-in PPPoE.  We've even helped a few
>> customers using BSD.

What are the issues with BSD?

-- 
Keith
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:27:36 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:27:36 -0400
Subject: [Debian] How do I get rid of update-mime ?
Message-ID: <20031014032736.GC2039@m433>

  The Bill Gates "user-friendly, we *KNOW* that you want singing-dancing
email" mentality seems to have scored one direct hit on Debian.  I'm
used to opening email to check out HTML and attachments.  Debian has a
huge /etc/mailcap which lists all sorts of mime-types I don't want to be
played.  Having that as the default is bad enough.  However, after
blowing away /etc/mailcap, I find that update-mime re-creates it every
time I install/remove any app that handles a mime-type.

  Although there is a man page for update-mime,
"apt-get remove update-mime" claims it can't find any such package.  I
renamed update-mime to downdate-mime, blew away /etc/mailcap (again)
followed by "touch /etc/mailcap" and "chmod 000 /etc/mailcap".  chattr
only works on extfs2, and I'm running ReiserFS.  This workaround should
stop Debian from "helping me enjoy rich-format email".  But I'd still
like to find the "official channels" method of getting rid of
update-mime.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:31:37 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:31:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <20031014031707.GD466-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com> <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com> <20031014031707.GD466@melon.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132323010.30016@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Kristofer Coward wrote:

> > > As far as I can tell, current market prices for residential DSL (if not
> > > also for business DSL) are too low to support the quality of customer
> > > service that Velocet provided[0] (pre-Wiznet).
> > [...]
> > > 0) eg. actually providing some degree of real Linux/Unix tech support
> >
> > That's news to me; we've been offering a full-service account for ages
> > @$34.49/mth.
[...]
> If you're making money on that front, I guess you've proven me wrong.

In the past I've even posted a back-of-the-napkin business case to c.i.h.
Here's the rough breakdown:
Bell ADSL loop; $20/mth * 1000 customers = $20K/mth
Bell 100BaseTx aggregation port; $1000/mth
20mbps of IP transit; $3000/mth (~1000 customers)
Office lease; $1000/mth
Total: $25K/mth
Revenue; $30/mth * 1000 customers = $30K/mth

Add some higher-margin business customers, some colo and web hosting and
you've got a very profitable business if you can keep your payroll costs
to a reasonable level.

-Ralph
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:37:26 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:37:26 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <1205.216.138.194.32.1066100807.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net>    <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com>    <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com>    <20031014031707.GD466@melon.org>
 <1205.216.138.194.32.1066100807.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132333080.30016@ns.istop.com>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:

> >> we support the kernel built-in PPPoE.  We've even helped a few
> >> customers using BSD.
>
> What are the issues with BSD?

FreeBSD 5 works much like Linux 2.4; the kernel has built-in support for
PPPoE.  It took me about an hour to get it working on FreeBSD when I first
tried it a few months back; much of that time was simply finding the docs
on how to rebuild the kernel and how to configure PPPoE.

-Ralph
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 03:51:34 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 23:51:34 -0400
Subject: X oddities under Debian
In-Reply-To: <3F89C2CD.9010008-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031011145532.GA3429@m433> <3F89C2CD.9010008@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <20031014035134.GD2039@m433>

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 05:08:29PM -0400, Anton Markov wrote
> Hello Walter,
> 
> Have you tried using xrandr?  It can switch your *virtual* desktop size 
> so you can change the size of your screen without scrolling.

  As Fraser notes, it's not part of Debian stable.

> The only catch I have noticed is that the resolution has to be one of 
> the mod lines in XF86Config.

  The Colas XFree Modeline Generator is a nice site for that.  Note that
the output is specific to each monitor model.  You can "smoke" your
monitor if you enter the wrong numbers for the sync limits.  Here's the
output for my NEC MultiSync 95...

#
#   Colas XFree Modeline Generator results
#
# Computed by http://koala.ilog.fr/cgi-bin/nph-colas-modelines
# Max Bandwidth: *180* Mhz
# Max Vertical Frequency: *160* Hz
# Max Horizontal Frequency: *96* Khz
# Minimun Refresh Rate: *30* Hz Min Bandwidth: *20* Mhz
# Min Horizontal Frequency: *31* Khz
#
# ModeLine "name" dotclock width x x x heigth y y y #RefreshRate
#
# ------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ModeLine "320x240" 20.07 320 336 416 448 240 242 254 280 #160Hz
  ModeLine "328x246" 20.86 328 344 424 456 246 248 260 286 #160Hz
  ModeLine "336x252" 21.67 336 352 432 464 252 254 266 292 #160Hz
  ModeLine "344x258" 22.50 344 360 440 472 258 260 272 298 #160Hz
  ModeLine "352x264" 23.34 352 368 448 480 264 266 278 304 #160Hz
  ModeLine "360x270" 24.20 360 376 456 488 270 272 284 310 #160Hz

[...major snippage of 8X6 increments...]

  ModeLine "2368x1776" 174.33 2368 2472 2992 3200 1776 1778 1790 1816 #30Hz
  ModeLine "2376x1782" 175.34 2376 2480 3000 3208 1782 1784 1796 1822 #30Hz
  ModeLine "2384x1788" 176.36 2384 2488 3008 3216 1788 1790 1802 1828 #30Hz
  ModeLine "2392x1794" 177.38 2392 2496 3016 3224 1794 1796 1808 1834 #30Hz
  ModeLine "2400x1800" 178.40 2400 2504 3024 3232 1800 1802 1814 1840 #30Hz
  ModeLine "2408x1806" 179.43 2408 2512 3032 3240 1806 1808 1820 1846 #30Hz

  They also allow customized ratios.  I hear that LCD displays suck if
used at anything other than whole number fractions.  1600x800 displays
OK at 800x600 and 400x300.  1280x1024 is usually a loss at resolutions
supported in Windows.  But with Kolas, you should be able to generate
640x512 and 320x256 modelines, which would be OK.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 04:22:11 2003
From: kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Kristofer Coward)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:22:11 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132323010.30016-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031013232107.GA17893@anarchy.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310131937160.19974@ns.istop.com> <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com> <20031014031707.GD466@melon.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132323010.30016@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031014042211.GE466@melon.org>

On Mon, Oct 13, 2003 at 11:31:37PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Kristofer Coward wrote:
> 
> > > > As far as I can tell, current market prices for residential DSL (if not
> > > > also for business DSL) are too low to support the quality of customer
> > > > service that Velocet provided[0] (pre-Wiznet).
> > > [...]
> > > > 0) eg. actually providing some degree of real Linux/Unix tech support
> > >
> > > That's news to me; we've been offering a full-service account for ages
> > > @$34.49/mth.
> [...]
> > If you're making money on that front, I guess you've proven me wrong.
> 
> In the past I've even posted a back-of-the-napkin business case to c.i.h.
> Here's the rough breakdown:
> Bell ADSL loop; $20/mth * 1000 customers = $20K/mth
> Bell 100BaseTx aggregation port; $1000/mth
> 20mbps of IP transit; $3000/mth (~1000 customers)
> Office lease; $1000/mth
> Total: $25K/mth
> Revenue; $30/mth * 1000 customers = $30K/mth
> 
> Add some higher-margin business customers, some colo and web hosting and
> you've got a very profitable business if you can keep your payroll costs
> to a reasonable level.

$5k/mth for payroll seems a little light, but if you've got enough
other business from which you sponge a few hours of employee time here
and there I suppose it could be doable.

-- 
Kristofer Coward				http://unripe.melon.org/
GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733  830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 04:49:15 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:49:15 -0400
Subject: [Debian] How do I get rid of update-mime ?
In-Reply-To: <20031014032736.GC2039-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031014032736.GC2039@m433>
Message-ID: <3F8B804B.10109@rogers.com>

Walter Dnes wrote:
>   The Bill Gates "user-friendly, we *KNOW* that you want singing-dancing
> email" mentality seems to have scored one direct hit on Debian.  I'm
> used to opening email to check out HTML and attachments.  Debian has a
> huge /etc/mailcap which lists all sorts of mime-types I don't want to be
> played.  Having that as the default is bad enough.  However, after
> blowing away /etc/mailcap, I find that update-mime re-creates it every
> time I install/remove any app that handles a mime-type.
> 
>   Although there is a man page for update-mime,
> "apt-get remove update-mime" claims it can't find any such package.  I
To find the package a file belongs to, execute dpkg -S update-mime. 
It'll be "mime-support".

> renamed update-mime to downdate-mime, blew away /etc/mailcap (again)
> followed by "touch /etc/mailcap" and "chmod 000 /etc/mailcap".  chattr
It's wrong (no-Debian) way!

> only works on extfs2, and I'm running ReiserFS.  This workaround should
> stop Debian from "helping me enjoy rich-format email".  But I'd still
> like to find the "official channels" method of getting rid of
> update-mime.
$apt-get remove mime-support
If you are satisfied with dependent packages which will be removed, do 
so. If you still need apache, for example, create a void deb package 
"mime-support" and install it.





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From cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 04:59:41 2003
From: cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (cybervoyager)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 00:59:41 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
Message-ID: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>

Okay so how many people on this list use Google as their primary search engine? 
You are all talking ad infinitum about email privacy in relation to spam... what about
the intrusion of cookies and spyder bots that harvest harvest email addresses
off of servers, and proxy type spying.. where you use a search like google and
they record all your information.

No this privacy issue is a major deal, and cannot be confined to the spam issue.
I am surprised how in this discussion in relation to Microsoft how nobody brings
up the fact that they promote a lot of this spying on you. 

Since I have installed windows xp on this one machine here, I got popups
conrtinually advertising ironically that I should buy this popup filter so I will
not get these annoying popups anymore. Well I did not buy, I just went into
kazaa and downloaded one and it works fine.

But really that is small potatoes compared to the spying that google does on us all.

I do regular spyware checks on my system for anything I picked up while surfing, 
using Ad Aware and Spybot search and destroy. They seem to do the job working
together, but still this whole cookie problem and sites like google I find very alarming.

I am not a delusional parnoid, conspiracy theorist, but it does bother me that such
sites like google are never challenged about their methods, and everyone seems
to keep on using them, not to mention the fact that they never tell anybody what
exactly they are doing with all this gleaned and harvested information.

Yes indeed internet security and privacy issues are a LOT bigger.. than spam...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


 
http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2003/10/278746.html

http://google-watch.org 


1. Google's immortal cookie: 
Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in 2038. This was at a time when federal websites were prohibited from using persistent cookies altogether. Now it's years later, and immortal cookies are commonplace among search engines; Google set the standard because no one bothered to challenge them. This cookie places a unique ID number on your hard disk. Anytime you land on a Google page, you get a Google cookie if you don't already have one. If you have one, they read and record your unique ID number. 

2. Google records everything they can: 
For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser configuration. Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery based on geolocation." 

3. Google retains all data indefinitely: 
Google has no data retention policies. There is evidence that they are able to easily access all the user information they collect and save. 

4. Google won't say why they need this data: 
Inquiries to Google about their privacy policies are ignored. When the New York Times (2002-11-28) asked Sergey Brin about whether Google ever gets subpoenaed for this information, he had no comment. 

5. Google hires spooks: 
Matt Cutts, a key Google engineer, used to work for the National Security Agency. Google wants to hire more people with security clearances, so that they can peddle their corporate assets to the spooks in Washington. 

6. Google's toolbar is spyware: 
With the advanced features enabled, Google's free toolbar for Explorer phones home with every page you surf, and yes, it reads your cookie too. Their privacy policy confesses this, but that's only because Alexa lost a class-action lawsuit when their toolbar did the same thing, and their privacy policy failed to explain this. Worse yet, Google's toolbar updates to new versions quietly, and without asking. This means that if you have the toolbar installed, Google essentially has complete access to your hard disk every time you connect to Google (which is many times a day). Most software vendors, and even Microsoft, ask if you'd like an updated version. But not Google. Any software that updates automatically presents a massive security risk. 

7. Google's cache copy is illegal: 
Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S. copyright laws to the Internet, Google's cache copy appears to be illegal. The only way a webmaster can avoid having his site cached on Google is to put a "noarchive" meta in the header of every page on his site. Surfers like the cache, but webmasters don't. Many webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites, only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters, not "opt-out." 

8. Google is not your friend: 
Young, stupid script kiddies and many bloggers still think Google is "way kool," so by now Google enjoys a 75 percent monopoly for all external referrals to most websites. No webmaster can avoid seeking Google's approval these days, assuming he wants to increase traffic to his site. If he tries to take advantage of some of the known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, he may find himself penalized by Google, and his traffic disappears. There are no detailed, published standards issued by Google, and there is no appeal process for penalized sites. Google is completely unaccountable. Most of the time they don't even answer email from webmasters. 

9. Google is a privacy time bomb: 
With 200 million searches per day, most from outside the U.S., Google amounts to a privacy disaster waiting to happen. Those newly-commissioned data-mining bureaucrats in Washington can only dream about the sort of slick efficiency that Google has already achieved. 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT BACK AGAINST SPAM!
Download Spam Inspector, the Award Winning Anti-Spam Filter
http://mail.giantcompany.com

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From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 05:51:19 2003
From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:51:19 +0800
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <200310130744.20001.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <200310130744.20001.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310141351.19315.jerome@gmanmi.tv>

On Monday 13 October 2003 19:44, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Monday 13 October 2003 02:41, JM wrote:
> > I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible
> > to using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal
> > IP?
>
> I don't see why not.  Of course the IP won't be globally routable so why do
> it?

ill be placing in a new server w/c will be used as a database server which i 
dont want it to have a global IP.

this is my current disected network structure..

LAN --switch1--router1 ---modem1------------(LOCAL LOOP)---------------modem2 
--router2--switch2--myboxes

switch2 is owned by the datacenter... without adding any boxes or NIC card or 
etc would it possible to add private IPs on myboxes using the same interface 
card w/c is currently used for public IP?

would IP aliasing do the trick?

eth0 = GLOBAL_IP
eth0:0 = 192.168.8.1

>
> > if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to
> > be multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?
>
> Why do it at all?  What applications will be listening, if you can tell us
> the intention perhaps we can give you some more/better advice ...




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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 05:37:53 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 01:37:53 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18-ZK5pCpJID5Y@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
Message-ID: <3F8B8BB1.2050404@alteeve.com>

I have seen the name cybervoyager before and you make reference to a 
recent thread so I am going t ogo out on a limb here and guess that you 
are, in fact, a member of the list. With that preamble; what does your 
fear of cookies and WinXP problems have to do with Linux? If it bothers 
you so bad, switch to Linux and that will solve your spyware problems. 
Set a cron job to clear you cookies each night to solve that problem 
(and write a darn script that greps for google.com if you only want to 
kill those ones).

Personally this sounds like a Spam itself and I really hope I didn't 
just make an arse of myself by responding to it.

Madison

cybervoyager wrote:
> Okay so how many people on this list use Google as their primary search 
> engine?
> You are all talking ad infinitum about email privacy in relation to 
> spam... what about
> the intrusion of cookies and spyder bots that harvest harvest email 
> addresses
> off of servers, and proxy type spying.. where you use a search like 
> google and
> they record all your information.

<rest of rant snipped>

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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 06:05:31 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:05:31 -0400
Subject: vger directives
Message-ID: <000901c39219$2ced1b00$0200a8c0@viper>


Moved my stuff onto a proper domain. (bloody high time too) (qmail and web
based email based on squirrelmail)

That Voyager Deep Space, that was in StarTrek, Motion picture...

"Collect all that is collectable..."
"Sell all that is sellable.."
"Merchandise all that is Merchandisable...."

At least thats what Mad Magazine said of VGERs directives..


The .to, im sure is not a Toronto TLD...is it?

Why is it that .ca domains are more expensive than .coms or .nets?
Is it that we have to pay for CIRAs administration?
And if so, what is the benefits of using a .ca (or other non .com/net/org
TLD domains)?

















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From cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 06:32:19 2003
From: cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (cybervoyager)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:32:19 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <3F8B8BB1.2050404@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <000601c3921c$eb21b420$a9a19d18@alpha>

What does it have to do with Linux..??? well I want to get off of windows
and learn linux and unix.. thats what.!!!.. that is why I joined this list..

Why? do you have a problem with that... just because I want to learn
or is learning not aloud on this list? And why do you have a problem
with me addressing this google problem.. I feel it is an important issue
and not just my personal rant. Everybody uses google blindly,
without questioning what the website does. Whats wrong with
raising peoples awareness about such??? .. and  yes even if
you do not use windoze flavors of OS.

But yes I agree with your advice.. I would love to learn how to
write scripts on linux and unix to deal this stuff... but how are people
like myself going to learn if others more knowledgable are condescending in
their attitude instead of tuning into the real issues and DOING SOMETHING
ABOUT IT.. !!! Sure there are tons of websites online with all kinds of
linux and unix scripts that do all kinds of things under the sun, but still
you have to start somewhere, hence lists like this.

Thank God we have alternatives like Linux and Unix and even apple OS-X..
if it was up to M$... I am pretty sure we wouldn't.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
---


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Madison Kelly" <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:37 AM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Googley Woogeley


> I have seen the name cybervoyager before and you make reference to a
> recent thread so I am going t ogo out on a limb here and guess that you
> are, in fact, a member of the list. With that preamble; what does your
> fear of cookies and WinXP problems have to do with Linux? If it bothers
> you so bad, switch to Linux and that will solve your spyware problems.
> Set a cron job to clear you cookies each night to solve that problem
> (and write a darn script that greps for google.com if you only want to
> kill those ones).
>
> Personally this sounds like a Spam itself and I really hope I didn't
> just make an arse of myself by responding to it.
>
> Madison
>
> cybervoyager wrote:
> > Okay so how many people on this list use Google as their primary search
> > engine?
> > You are all talking ad infinitum about email privacy in relation to
> > spam... what about
> > the intrusion of cookies and spyder bots that harvest harvest email
> > addresses
> > off of servers, and proxy type spying.. where you use a search like
> > google and
> > they record all your information.
>
> <rest of rant snipped>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 06:48:20 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 02:48:20 -0400
Subject: vger directives
In-Reply-To: <000901c39219$2ced1b00$0200a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <000901c39219$2ced1b00$0200a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014024714.01edeec0@mail.interlog.com>

At 02:05 AM 10/14/2003 -0400, you wrote:
>The .to, im sure is not a Toronto TLD...is it?

No, it isn't for Toronto unfortunately. :-) It is for the country of Tonga.

The use of .ca would tell people your site (or the owner of the site) has a 
relationship with Canada where the .com was meant to indicate a US 
Commercial site.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 07:06:08 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 03:06:08 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <3F8B8BB1.2050404-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
 <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <3F8B8BB1.2050404@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0@mail.interlog.com>

At 01:37 AM 10/14/2003 -0400, Madison wrote:
>Personally this sounds like a Spam itself and I really hope I didn't just 
>make an arse of myself by responding to it.

The writer of the comments does help to keep everyone thinking about issues 
relating to privacy. However, I think some of the statements made might 
indicate someone who has been misinformed or misunderstood some of the 
issues they tried to raise.

I don't know why they tried to single out Google. The use of cookies is 
common to a large number of the web sites on the net. Any time you access a 
web site, your IP address is recorded if the site has logging enabled.

Somebody else will probably be able to go through the points in more detail 
before I can. As its 3am at the moment, I need to go to bed to get some sleep.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 11:09:31 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:09:31 -0400
Subject: [Debian] How do I get rid of update-mime ?
In-Reply-To: <3F8B804B.10109-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031014032736.GC2039@m433> <3F8B804B.10109@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031014110930.GA2601@m433>

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 12:49:15AM -0400, Ilya Palagin wrote

> To find the package a file belongs to, execute dpkg -S update-mime. 
> It'll be "mime-support".
> 
> >renamed update-mime to downdate-mime, blew away /etc/mailcap (again)
> >followed by "touch /etc/mailcap" and "chmod 000 /etc/mailcap".  chattr
> It's wrong (no-Debian) way!
> 
> >only works on extfs2, and I'm running ReiserFS.  This workaround should
> >stop Debian from "helping me enjoy rich-format email".  But I'd still
> >like to find the "official channels" method of getting rid of
> >update-mime.
> $apt-get remove mime-support

  Thanks.  That's what I was looking for.  I'll be out of town for a few
days.  I'll try it Thursday evening when I get back.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 11:26:51 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 07:26:51 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131532210.15903-100000-G4iNdIupK6G7vFAssF7eVSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131532210.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <20031014072651.419e36e2.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:39:50 -0400 (EDT)
Emir Alikadic <emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Or is this not what you'd consider SPAM somehow?

I'm not disputing that you are getting spam from the list, it is strange
though that some are and some aren't, esp if the spam is supposed to be
coming from the same source, the list itself.

Not tryin' to start a fight er nuthin' ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
When you die, you lose a very important part of your life.
		-- Brooke Shields
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 14:18:20 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:18:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk (fwd)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027@ns.istop.com>

Another spam using tlug-real-wSBAafQnSJjhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Return-Path: <get_hung1713-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org>
Delivered-To: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
Received: from lethe.ss.org (dsl.ss.org [206.108.5.1])
	by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96984174B7
	for <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:15:04 -0400 (EDT)
Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix)
	id C007D6D388; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
Delivered-To: tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org
Received: from smtp4.clb.oleane.net (smtp4.clb.oleane.net [213.56.31.20])
	by lethe.ss.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3016D386
	for <tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:14:34 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from tludanyi ([195.6.173.196])
	by smtp4.clb.oleane.net with SMTP id h9EEEQuQ025600;
	Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:26 +0200
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:26 +0200
Message-Id: <200310141414.h9EEEQuQ025600-ik10VMwhufE29NsNHyr2o+TW4wlIGRCZ at public.gmane.org>
From: get_hung1713-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org
To: tludanyi-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org
Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/html


NEW MEDICA1 BREAKTHROUGH

Want to be well hung like all the P0rnstars are?
Want all the ladies wanting you?
Of course you do, introducing the new "PEN1S ENLARGEMENT PATCH"
1-4 months just wearing a patch everyday will make you WELL HUNG! 3-4
inches more..

Smoking patches helped people stop smoking..
Diet patches helped people keep the pounds off...
Now this new breakthrough in science is helping men worldwide..

Read more info here




Get me off this list

iaboifg , mwuxmu , sspdhvnou
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From pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 14:22:05 2003
From: pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul Kozlenko)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:22:05 -0400
Subject: Sendmail VS M$ Exchange
Message-ID: <200310141022.05792.pkozlenko@rogers.com>

I would appreciate any help that I can get on solving an issue I have with an 
SMTP gateway using SuSE 8.1 and Sendmail 8.12.6 with SuSE latest patches.

Scenario:
The MS Exchange server passes all outgoing email to the Sendmail gateway and 
once in a while an email is genereated that is sent to all recipients in the 
corporation (about 1750).  Because some of the recipient are accessed only 
via SMTP the entire header goes to these external addresses as well.  
Probably 1600 internal and the balance are internet addresses.

The gateway claims the header exceeds the max setting of 32768.  Calculating 
1750 X an approx. 30 character average per address e.g. 
"john.smith-qb5DVjQeiwZEgLnXhegG/Q at public.gmane.org" and some longer names. This would be correct.  I 
increased the max setting to 65535 and I still get the same message. 

How do I estimate the correct header length?
The Exchange server has no problem sending this out of it's SMTP gateway.
I can not get the email broken down into chunks. I am at the mercy of the 
senders and this is how they work. If the gateway can determine somehow how 
to handle this, OK.

Is there a way of telling the gateway to accept unlimited header size from 
internal network numbers and limit receiveing larger headers from all other 
network numbers?

I could simply eliminate the Sendmail gateway.  But I would lose some features 
that it provides.

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks
Paul

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 14:28:46 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:28:46 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <000601c3921c$eb21b420$a9a19d18-ZK5pCpJID5Y@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <3F8B8BB1.2050404@alteeve.com> <000601c3921c$eb21b420$a9a19d18@alpha>
Message-ID: <3F8C081E.5020409@alteeve.com>

Perhaps if learning was your goal a message more along the lines of the 
following would help: "Hey, I realise now that google sucks for these 
reasons, can someone help me deal with them under Linux?".

The volume of this and the first message was quite loud and came across 
a bit crazy, topped with the "download this software" at the bottom it 
seemed more like a wierd spam.

You will find that there are a lot of great people on TLUG willing and 
able to help out, but you will find them far more willing and able i you 
bring the volume down and ask questions rather than go on a screaming 
rant. :)

Madison

cybervoyager wrote:
> What does it have to do with Linux..??? well I want to get off of windows
> and learn linux and unix.. thats what.!!!.. that is why I joined this list..
> 
> Why? do you have a problem with that... just because I want to learn
> or is learning not aloud on this list? And why do you have a problem
> with me addressing this google problem.. I feel it is an important issue
> and not just my personal rant. Everybody uses google blindly,
> without questioning what the website does. Whats wrong with
> raising peoples awareness about such??? .. and  yes even if
> you do not use windoze flavors of OS.
> 
> But yes I agree with your advice.. I would love to learn how to
> write scripts on linux and unix to deal this stuff... but how are people
> like myself going to learn if others more knowledgable are condescending in
> their attitude instead of tuning into the real issues and DOING SOMETHING
> ABOUT IT.. !!! Sure there are tons of websites online with all kinds of
> linux and unix scripts that do all kinds of things under the sun, but still
> you have to start somewhere, hence lists like this.
> 
> Thank God we have alternatives like Linux and Unix and even apple OS-X..
> if it was up to M$... I am pretty sure we wouldn't.
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Madison Kelly" <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 1:37 AM
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Googley Woogeley
> 
> 
> 
>>I have seen the name cybervoyager before and you make reference to a
>>recent thread so I am going t ogo out on a limb here and guess that you
>>are, in fact, a member of the list. With that preamble; what does your
>>fear of cookies and WinXP problems have to do with Linux? If it bothers
>>you so bad, switch to Linux and that will solve your spyware problems.
>>Set a cron job to clear you cookies each night to solve that problem
>>(and write a darn script that greps for google.com if you only want to
>>kill those ones).
>>
>>Personally this sounds like a Spam itself and I really hope I didn't
>>just make an arse of myself by responding to it.
>>
>>Madison
>>
>>cybervoyager wrote:
>>
>>>Okay so how many people on this list use Google as their primary search
>>>engine?
>>>You are all talking ad infinitum about email privacy in relation to
>>>spam... what about
>>>the intrusion of cookies and spyder bots that harvest harvest email
>>>addresses
>>>off of servers, and proxy type spying.. where you use a search like
>>>google and
>>>they record all your information.
>>
>><rest of rant snipped>
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 


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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 14:45:02 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:45:02 -0400
Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk
 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F8C0BEE.5060305@codemonkeys.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 14/10/2003 10:18, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

| Another spam using tlug-real-wSBAafQnSJjhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org

Same here, I was just about to fwd it myself.
- --
Emir.

"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election
~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery,
~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices."             -- Andrew Orlowski
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/jAvuuSy542G+Z7QRAudrAKCHAQf6SAUmNufi98L5LWYvn4g3PwCfUVey
Cp+LqznSoWTYShbxuqKLd5A=
=a8V1
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:06:24 2003
From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:06:24 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>


I just bought a new laptop by Toshiba and was getting all set to install
Linux. (I installed Mandrake 8.2 on my Desktop machine just over a year ago
and and was very happy with it.)
But recently I found out that I may have problems because the laptop has
Windows XP installed on it. XP uses the NT file system (NTFS) which provides
a problem for most Linux partitioning tools.

As I see it I have 4 options:
1) Buy Partition Magic.
2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive, install
Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in the
Toronto area?)
4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who offers
this service? How much does it cost?)

Any suggestions?

Regards,
Jim.
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:11:02 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:11:02 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>
Message-ID: <004301c39265$6f3ee190$0200a8c0@viper>


Is the data worth saving? If so...I would probably install PartitionMagic8
or DriveImagePro 4 (same company) and resize the live NTFS downto <7 or 8GB.
Assuming there is less than 7 or 8GB of data on the drive..

Leave the rest of the drive unallocated freespace..
Install a Linux into the free space...




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Skehill" <JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: [TLUG]: NTFS and Linux


>
> I just bought a new laptop by Toshiba and was getting all set to install
> Linux. (I installed Mandrake 8.2 on my Desktop machine just over a year
ago
> and and was very happy with it.)
> But recently I found out that I may have problems because the laptop has
> Windows XP installed on it. XP uses the NT file system (NTFS) which
provides
> a problem for most Linux partitioning tools.
>
> As I see it I have 4 options:
> 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive,
install
> Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in
the
> Toronto area?)
> 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who
offers
> this service? How much does it cost?)
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Regards,
> Jim.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:11:07 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:11:07 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>
Message-ID: <004401c39265$6f7a8b00$0200a8c0@viper>


Is the data worth saving? If so...I would probably install PartitionMagic8
or DriveImagePro 4 (same company) and resize the live NTFS downto <7 or 8GB.
Assuming there is less than 7 or 8GB of data on the drive..

Leave the rest of the drive unallocated freespace..
Install a Linux into the free space...




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Skehill" <JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: [TLUG]: NTFS and Linux


>
> I just bought a new laptop by Toshiba and was getting all set to install
> Linux. (I installed Mandrake 8.2 on my Desktop machine just over a year
ago
> and and was very happy with it.)
> But recently I found out that I may have problems because the laptop has
> Windows XP installed on it. XP uses the NT file system (NTFS) which
provides
> a problem for most Linux partitioning tools.
>
> As I see it I have 4 options:
> 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive,
install
> Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in
the
> Toronto area?)
> 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who
offers
> this service? How much does it cost?)
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Regards,
> Jim.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:11:20 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:11:20 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>
Message-ID: <004501c39265$6faff2e0$0200a8c0@viper>


Is the data worth saving? If so...I would probably install PartitionMagic8
or DriveImagePro 4 (same company) and resize the live NTFS downto <7 or 8GB.
Assuming there is less than 7 or 8GB of data on the drive..

Leave the rest of the drive unallocated freespace..
Install a Linux into the free space...




----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Skehill" <JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 11:06 AM
Subject: [TLUG]: NTFS and Linux


>
> I just bought a new laptop by Toshiba and was getting all set to install
> Linux. (I installed Mandrake 8.2 on my Desktop machine just over a year
ago
> and and was very happy with it.)
> But recently I found out that I may have problems because the laptop has
> Windows XP installed on it. XP uses the NT file system (NTFS) which
provides
> a problem for most Linux partitioning tools.
>
> As I see it I have 4 options:
> 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive,
install
> Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in
the
> Toronto area?)
> 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who
offers
> this service? How much does it cost?)
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Regards,
> Jim.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:15:18 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:15:18 -0400
Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031014151518.GA383@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:18:20AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> Another spam using tlug-real-wSBAafQnSJjhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org
> 
> Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> 6042147 Canada Inc.

> Delivered-To: tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org

Yeah, I got that too.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:07:48 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:07:48 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F-zjka4IdDAzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>
Message-ID: <1639.216.138.194.32.1066144068.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


Hi Jim,

> I just bought a new laptop by Toshiba and was getting all set to install
> Linux. (I installed Mandrake 8.2 on my Desktop machine just over a year
> ago and and was very happy with it.)
> But recently I found out that I may have problems because the laptop has
> Windows XP installed on it. XP uses the NT file system (NTFS) which
> provides a problem for most Linux partitioning tools.
>
> As I see it I have 4 options:
> 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive,
> install Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in
> the Toronto area?)
> 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who
> offers this service? How much does it cost?)

You forgot

5) download a copy of BootitNG and use it to resize NTFS and create all
the partitions you'll ever need for free. :)

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:39:30 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:39:30 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <3F8C081E.5020409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <3F8B8BB1.2050404@alteeve.com> <000601c3921c$eb21b420$a9a19d18@alpha> <3F8C081E.5020409@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031014153930.GA443@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:28:46AM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> The volume of this and the first message was quite loud and came across 
> a bit crazy, topped with the "download this software" at the bottom it 
> seemed more like a wierd spam.

Obviously, he's an agent of Microsoft or a commie.  Couldn't you tell?
For a guy who profess to know nothing of Linux, he's knowledgable enough
to tell us what program to download/install.

Now, Microsoft is going to point to this guy's post and say, "See, what
we mean?  And, you want to invest in these guys?"

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:45:46 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:45:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <1066.207.236.220.78.1066146346.squirrel@www.lijour.net>

same here


> Another spam using tlug-real-wSBAafQnSJjhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org
>
> Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> 6042147 Canada Inc.
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> Return-Path: <get_hung1713-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org>
> Delivered-To: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org
> Received: from lethe.ss.org (dsl.ss.org [206.108.5.1])
> 	by ns.istop.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96984174B7
> 	for <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:15:04 -0400 (EDT)
> Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix)
> 	id C007D6D388; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:14:35 -0400 (EDT)
> Delivered-To: tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org
> Received: from smtp4.clb.oleane.net (smtp4.clb.oleane.net
> [213.56.31.20])
> 	by lethe.ss.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED3016D386
> 	for <tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 10:14:34 -0400 (EDT)
> Received: from tludanyi ([195.6.173.196])
> 	by smtp4.clb.oleane.net with SMTP id h9EEEQuQ025600;
> 	Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:26 +0200
> Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:14:26 +0200
> Message-Id: <200310141414.h9EEEQuQ025600-ik10VMwhufE29NsNHyr2o+TW4wlIGRCZ at public.gmane.org>
> From: get_hung1713-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org
> To: tludanyi-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-type: text/html
>
>
> NEW MEDICA1 BREAKTHROUGH
>
> Want to be well hung like all the P0rnstars are?
> Want all the ladies wanting you?
> Of course you do, introducing the new "PEN1S ENLARGEMENT PATCH"
> 1-4 months just wearing a patch everyday will make you WELL HUNG! 3-4
> inches more..
>
> Smoking patches helped people stop smoking..
> Diet patches helped people keep the pounds off...
> Now this new breakthrough in science is helping men worldwide..
>
> Read more info here
>
>
>
>
> Get me off this list
>
> iaboifg , mwuxmu , sspdhvnou
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml



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From dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:46:56 2003
From: dstubbs-ZsETY1VsSgK5ibTBNBZY+dUNXN58jlyp at public.gmane.org (Dave Stubbs)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:46:56 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18-ZK5pCpJID5Y@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
Message-ID: <3F8C1A70.7060008@penguin.8inchfloppy.com>

cybervoyager wrote:

> Okay so how many people on this list use Google as their primary 
> search engine?
> You are all talking ad infinitum about email privacy in relation to 
> spam... what about
> the intrusion of cookies and spyder bots that harvest harvest email 
> addresses
> off of servers, and proxy type spying.. where you use a search like 
> google and
> they record all your information.


Hahahaha - and I quote:  "Mozilla thinks this message is junk mail"

... ok, I guess you had to be there.

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:55:37 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:55:37 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
	 <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
	 <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <1066146936.1169.36.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 03:06, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> I don't know why they tried to single out Google. The use of cookies is 
> common to a large number of the web sites on the net. Any time you access a 
> web site, your IP address is recorded if the site has logging enabled.
For privacy sensitive individuals having search terms associated to them
is undesirable. Google could "unassociate" this info.

> Somebody else will probably be able to go through the points in more detail 
> before I can. As its 3am at the moment, I need to go to bed to get some sleep.

http://www.google-watch.org/ describes all the possible concerns with
Google that I am aware of. Possibly the most interesting is the site's
concerns is Google does not make its position on privacy clear, and they
have made questionable implementation decisions related to privacy.

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 16:08:16 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:08:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F-zjka4IdDAzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310141152570.1436-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Jim Skehill wrote:

> As I see it I have 4 options:
> 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive, install
> Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in the
> Toronto area?)
> 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who offers
> this service? How much does it cost?

Purchasing Partition Magic will do the trick, although it is too
expensive. I still don't know why computers are being shipped out with one
NTFS partition. I guess they don't want you to install or monkey around
with any other OS's. This makes it very inconvenient, if you want to ghost
your hard drive, save different data on a different partition, or install
a different OS as you are saying.

I have searched the web, and came across ntfsresize, an open source NTFS
re-sizer. It claims to resize NTFS partitions, which means you
can try it out on your system. They even mentioned compatibility with XP's
NTFS (5.1), and they said they had no destroyed filesystems:

Since July of 2002, when ntfsresize became publicly available, there were
countless success reports for both enlarging and shrinking Windows
XP/2000/NT4 and Windows Server 2003 NTFS filesystems on both workstation
and server versions (Home, Professional, Server, Advanced Server). No
destroyed filesystem was reported who followed the instructions correctly.
So yes, we think the code is reliable. However, just like in case of any
kind of partition and filesystem manipulation involved, we strongly
recommend to have a backup of your data. You have anyway, haven't you? We
did receive reports when commercial partitioners corrupted or destroyed
data when ntfsresize worked or refused to resize.

Source:
http://mlf.linux.rulez.org/mlf/ezaz/ntfsresize.html

You can download the SystemRescueCD (71MB ISO), from
http://www.sysresccd.org/ which contains ntfsresizer. You do have a
burner, right?

Just make sure you backup any important data, just in case.
Hope this helps.

Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 16:16:13 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:16:13 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310141152570.1436-100000-zVIyXm3mjq1oM55T5W/052G8O1WwMoTE@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310141152570.1436-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>
Message-ID: <1066148172.1173.60.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 12:08, Teodor Iliescu wrote:

> I still don't know why computers are being shipped out with one
> NTFS partition

Often two partitions, the other a hidden re-install MSWin + suites, so
they don't have to ship you media (CDs) :-(

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 16:06:17 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:06:17 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18-ZK5pCpJID5Y@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
Message-ID: <1801.216.138.194.32.1066147577.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Okay so how many people on this list use Google as their primary search
> engine?
> You are all talking ad infinitum about email privacy in relation to
> spam... what about the intrusion of cookies and spyder bots that harvest
> harvest email addresses off of servers, and proxy type spying.. where
> you use a search like google and they record all your information.

Huh? If your webpages are set up with email unhidden email addresses yes
it will probably eventually get farmed by a spambot.

My system doesn't send anything but the tcp/ip packets and request
parameters to google. Any fool with a heartbeat can get all that info
anyhow, so what's the beef?

> No this privacy issue is a major deal, and cannot be confined to the spam
> issue.
> I am surprised how in this discussion in relation to Microsoft how nobody
> brings up the fact that they promote a lot of this spying on you.
>
> Since I have installed windows xp on this one machine here, I got popups
> conrtinually advertising ironically that I should buy this popup filter.
> so I will not get these annoying popups anymore. Well I did not buy, I
> just went into kazaa and downloaded one and it works fine.

You stole it. It's a breach of copyright. Linux is built on copyright, and
it happens to be our stock in trade. Please do not advertise this behavior
on this list any more. It makes co-conspirators of all of us, and I
personally don't appreciate it.

> But really that is small potatoes compared to the spying that google does
> on us all.
>
> I do regular spyware checks on my system for anything I picked up while
> surfing, using Ad Aware and Spybot search and destroy. They seem to do
> the job working together, but still this whole cookie problem and sites
> like google I find very alarming.

That sounds like a lot of work to keep one machine afloat. Why not just
use an OS that you can configure to do what you want instead of adding a
bunch of junk on top of what already doesn't work?

> I am not a delusional parnoid, conspiracy theorist, but it does bother me
> that such sites like google are never challenged about their methods,
> and everyone seems to keep on using them, not to mention the fact that
> they never tell anybody what exactly they are doing with all this
> gleaned and harvested information.

Yes they do... here's the homework you should have done:
http://www.google.ca/privacy.html

> Yes indeed internet security and privacy issues are a LOT bigger..
> than spam...

The ones we have to worry about are yes. I wouldn't put cookies into this
mix though, it's just a little too paranoid for my tastes. You have the
options to refuse cookies or authorize each cookie or accept all cookies.
You also have the option to not use google or to allow it to scan your
website.

<snip>


-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 16:25:20 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:25:20 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <1066146936.1169.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0@mail.interlog.com> <1066146936.1169.36.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031014162520.GA541@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 11:55:37AM -0400, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 03:06, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> > I don't know why they tried to single out Google. The use of cookies is 
> > common to a large number of the web sites on the net. Any time you access a 
> > web site, your IP address is recorded if the site has logging enabled.
> For privacy sensitive individuals having search terms associated to them
> is undesirable. Google could "unassociate" this info.
> 
> > Somebody else will probably be able to go through the points in more detail 
> > before I can. As its 3am at the moment, I need to go to bed to get some sleep.
> 
> http://www.google-watch.org/ describes all the possible concerns with
> Google that I am aware of. Possibly the most interesting is the site's
> concerns is Google does not make its position on privacy clear, and they
> have made questionable implementation decisions related to privacy.

Why do they have to?  When you cross over on port 80, you are entering
someone else's property (ie. computers, cpu, harddisks) and using
someone else's service (ie. bandwidth, programmer's payrolls).  What
Google do with the infos is totally Google's discretion.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 16:37:12 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:37:12 -0400
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
In-Reply-To: <20031012201839.GA1095-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031014163712.GA14551@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 04:18:40PM -0400, William Park wrote:
> If there's anyone here with P4 or Xeon with hyperthreading and SMP
> kernel, can you compile kernel
>     make bzImage > /dev/null
>     time make -j 3 bzImage > /dev/null
>     time make bzImage > /dev/null		
> and post the elapsed time for the last 2 commands.
> 
> Thanks.  It's time for upgrade, and I would like to get some feel for
> hyperthreading in P4 and Xeon.  

I would love to do it, but I don't think the database users would
appreciate it.  It probably wouldn't give the right results anyhow,
given it has 4 xeon's in it.  As far as I can tell it looks as though it
gives about 20 to 30% extra out of the cpu to have hyperthreading
enabled.  On 2.6 it might be more (at least on multi cpu machines) since
it has a better schedular that knows about related cpus.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 16:42:45 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:42:45 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <20031014162520.GA541-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
	 <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
	 <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0@mail.interlog.com>
	 <1066146936.1169.36.camel@localhost>
	 <20031014162520.GA541@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1066149765.1172.94.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 12:25, William Park wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 11:55:37AM -0400, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> > On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 03:06, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> > > I don't know why they tried to single out Google. The use of cookies is 
> > > common to a large number of the web sites on the net. Any time you access a 
> > > web site, your IP address is recorded if the site has logging enabled.
> > For privacy sensitive individuals having search terms associated to them
> > is undesirable. Google could "unassociate" this info.
> > 
> > > Somebody else will probably be able to go through the points in more detail 
> > > before I can. As its 3am at the moment, I need to go to bed to get some sleep.
> > 
> > http://www.google-watch.org/ describes all the possible concerns with
> > Google that I am aware of. Possibly the most interesting is the site's
> > concerns is Google does not make its position on privacy clear, and they
> > have made questionable implementation decisions related to privacy.
> 
> Why do they have to?  When you cross over on port 80, you are entering
> someone else's property (ie. computers, cpu, harddisks) and using
> someone else's service (ie. bandwidth, programmer's payrolls).  What
> Google do with the infos is totally Google's discretion.

No one is saying they have to, but possibly it is the right thing to do
-- as in morally correct ;-)

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 16:56:22 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 12:56:22 -0400
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
In-Reply-To: <20031014163712.GA14551-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031014163712.GA14551@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031014165622.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 12:37:12PM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 12, 2003 at 04:18:40PM -0400, William Park wrote:
> > If there's anyone here with P4 or Xeon with hyperthreading and SMP
> > kernel, can you compile kernel
> >     make bzImage > /dev/null
> >     time make -j 3 bzImage > /dev/null
> >     time make bzImage > /dev/null		
> > and post the elapsed time for the last 2 commands.
> > 
> > Thanks.  It's time for upgrade, and I would like to get some feel for
> > hyperthreading in P4 and Xeon.  
> 
> I would love to do it, but I don't think the database users would
> appreciate it.  It probably wouldn't give the right results anyhow,
> given it has 4 xeon's in it.  As far as I can tell it looks as though it
> gives about 20 to 30% extra out of the cpu to have hyperthreading
> enabled.  On 2.6 it might be more (at least on multi cpu machines) since
> it has a better schedular that knows about related cpus.

Yeah, multi-cpu will skew the result.  The best is a single P4 or Xeon,
with and without hyperthreading.

I am also looking at AMD Opteron.  Nice, but decent motherboard is not
out yet.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 17:20:04 2003
From: lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org (lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 13:20:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <20031014162520.GA541-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
 <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0@mail.interlog.com> <1066146936.1169.36.camel@localhost>
 <20031014162520.GA541@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0310141237260.500@localhost>



On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:
> Why do they have to?  When you cross over on port 80, you are entering
> someone else's property (ie. computers, cpu, harddisks) and using
> someone else's service (ie. bandwidth, programmer's payrolls).  What
> Google do with the infos is totally Google's discretion.

Imagine walking into a store, having somebody slap an ID number on your
jacket, then having somebody follow you about the store recording every
item you look at.  I doubt that many people would return to such a
store.

That being said, you have the same discretion over your machine as
Google has over their machines.  You can refuse to accept or provide
anything you want.  You can even modify information, as long as you are
not being malicious.

There is plenty of software to do this under Linux, it is free (you do
not have to steal it), and you can verify that it does what it claims to
(if you are the paranoid type) from the source code or various network
utilities.

It would be nice if it turned out otherwise, but the price is going to
be your time and access to certain materials.  It has been long since
decided that the Internet should be a free, but commercial, entity.
This means that it is supported by advertising, and advertisers love
targeting particular demographics.  In all likelyhood, Google is
gathering information for that purpose (rather than supporting some
grand government conspiracy).

Byron.

The price is going to be your time.  It would be nice if it turned out
otherwise, but the people have long since decided that they want a free
and commercial internet.  The thing had to pay itself off somehow, and
that is through advertising revenues (not government conspiracies).
--
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 18:16:10 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:16:10 -0400
Subject: Xeon/P4 hyperthreading
In-Reply-To: <20031014165622.GA588-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031012201839.GA1095@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031014163712.GA14551@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031014165622.GA588@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031014181610.GB14551@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 12:56:22PM -0400, William Park wrote:
> Yeah, multi-cpu will skew the result.  The best is a single P4 or Xeon,
> with and without hyperthreading.
> 
> I am also looking at AMD Opteron.  Nice, but decent motherboard is not
> out yet.

Both KT800 and nForce3 boards are out.

Lennart Sorensen
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 19:59:01 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 21:59:01 +0200 (IST)
Subject: spam on the list
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132158200.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Ok, I stand corrected. There was indeed spam on the list. I apologize for
any unwelcome comments I made.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 20:00:54 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 22:00:54 +0200 (IST)
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131540120.15903-100000-G4iNdIupK6G7vFAssF7eVSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131540120.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132159330.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Emir Alikadic wrote:

> PLP> at least. Sorry for being picky but I'm tuning my spam filter by hand and
> PLP> I take a keen interest in spam and headers.
>
> So do I, Peter.  I have Postfix + Procmail + SpamAssassin + Vipul's Razor set
> and I *still* get SPAM from tlug.  I think you're all unfairly attacking Ralph
> for bringing up this issue.
>
> Furthermore, I think your suggestion to tune your SPAM filters is ridiculous:
> it just deals with the symptoms and leaves the real problem untackled.  Don't
> you think we should secure the server or do you really think we should just
> all implement individual filtering schemes?

Yes definitely. I did not realise the problem was serious, I only saw
Ralph Doncasters posting and I never got that spam. As to tuning my
filters, someone has got to do it.

Peter
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 15:33:58 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 11:33:58 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F-zjka4IdDAzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>
Message-ID: <3F8C1766.3060005@alteeve.com>

Partition Magic (and the like) will work but they often induce problems 
that come back to haunt you. For example, I had a customer accidentally 
format a drive that had been setup with a partition magic-type app and 
it placed the backup FAT on a logical head higher than the hard drive's 
default logical head count so before I could restore the data I first 
had to re-write the number of logical heads. That was FAT but the point 
is I don't trust it.

With that said, I would strongly recommend, assuming you have not put 
any valuable data on the new laptop yet, to wipe and reinstall XP (and 
use FAT32 if you want to mount/read-write to it from Linux) and leave 
enough space to load Linux after. The reason for FAT32 (another good 
reason alone to reinstall) is that NTFS support is read-only with only 
VERY experimental write capabilities (and a very real chance of 
corrupting the NTFS File System) whereas Linux can easily read/write FAT32.

If you would like I would be happy to help you with it. Give me a ring 
at 416-208-0146 and we can talk more then. Best of luck!

Madison

Jim Skehill wrote:
> I just bought a new laptop by Toshiba and was getting all set to install
> Linux. (I installed Mandrake 8.2 on my Desktop machine just over a year ago
> and and was very happy with it.)
> But recently I found out that I may have problems because the laptop has
> Windows XP installed on it. XP uses the NT file system (NTFS) which provides
> a problem for most Linux partitioning tools.
> 
> As I see it I have 4 options:
> 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive, install
> Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in the
> Toronto area?)
> 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who offers
> this service? How much does it cost?)
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Regards,
> Jim.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 


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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 18:40:32 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 14:40:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: spam on the list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132158200.586-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132158200.586@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031014143946.9294B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> Ok, I stand corrected. There was indeed spam on the list...

Well, on some subset of the list.  (No filters here, and no TLUG spam
seen either.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 19:07:47 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:07:47 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <1066146936.1169.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>  <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
  <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0@mail.interlog.com> <1066146936.1169.36.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310142105140.616@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Lloyd D Budd wrote:

> On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 03:06, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> > I don't know why they tried to single out Google. The use of cookies is
> > common to a large number of the web sites on the net. Any time you access a
> > web site, your IP address is recorded if the site has logging enabled.
> For privacy sensitive individuals having search terms associated to them
> is undesirable. Google could "unassociate" this info.

Google has an annoying habit of indexing messages sent to newsgroups and
mailing lists and then not finding all of them. Quoting someone out of
context is a pretty good way to heap s**t on him without lying. Other than
that I'm using it and feeding it chaff all the time. Will be amusing to
read my Carnivore profile some day ;-)

Peter
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 19:51:42 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:51:42 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel-3FyN9KwLBikOAsET96VVuuqpMbaZSuSF930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca> <3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com> <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
Message-ID: <200310141551.43767.marc@lijour.net>

Le 11 Octobre 2003 19:51, Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca) a ?crit :
> Hello Mel, William,	Byron, Thomas, Joe, Colin, Ilya, Wil, Marc and Toni,
>
> Many thanks to each of you for your interest, ideas and thoughts. Totally
> appreciated and helpful ... especially to know that so many of you are
> interested in helping out and that some of you are neighbors -- this
> "inter-web" think is just awesome, isn't it ;-)
>
> Anyway, just a quick note this evening (apologies for the group response)
> to acknowledge your emails and to say that it looks like the consensus is
> to hold a small gathering -- perhaps at the lab -- to connect and kick
> around some ideas.
>
> If there are specific dates/times that would work for you, please let me
> know. Generally, the best day to visit the lab -- when it's not full of
> youngsters -- is Saturday. Would that work for people? Perhaps we could
> explore a date in late October or early November?
>
> And, also, a few of you had some specific questions ...
>
> Regarding case studies or examples, what I'm looking for are specific
> instances where a school or learning environment have rolled out a
> mid-sized lab with only Linux or related OS operating systems and software.
> I've got many case studies of OS in the non-profit sector (that's my line
> of work) but not many in the education/learning sector ... specifically
> where I could point to them and say "they did it and here's how and let's
> give them a phone call and chat".

Well what are the requirements?

I set up a all-linux lab in the past, but I wasn't really backed up by the 
director... by idea to call them ;)

Actually that could be the biggest issue for you too: selling your stuff to 
the parents of these youngsters + the win-addict of them.
This is when people show bad will, and if anything goes wrong they know 
why.... (it is what they told you not to do before hand!).

If you could get everybody involved you would have the best chances of 
success.

For the topics I teach, I would not need anything but Linux (if my school 
board would let me touch the lab to get it my way).

> Typically, most non-profits I've worked with -- especially this one -- is
> not likely to be interested in trailblazing or by too visionary. However,
> that being said, this lab is one of the most professionally set-up I've
> ever seen -- good rack mount system, good cabling, servers, etc. So, if
> there are examples of others who've done it first, it would be great to
> know about.
>
> Finally, one question that seems to keep coming up for me is how do you
> handle user authentication and "roaming profiles" in this type of a set-up?
> I can think of a few ways ... but I've never used Un*x in a true
> multi-user/desktop environment and wonder how this is done easily?
> Kerberos? LDAP? Or just basic Un*x authentication?
>
> Anyway, that's all for this weekend... again, thank you for your response
> and input.
>
> Phillip.
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 19:55:01 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:55:01 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <3F8AFF56.8090009-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca> <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca> <3F8AFF56.8090009@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <200310141555.02919.marc@lijour.net>

Le 13 Octobre 2003 15:39, Byron Sonne a ?crit :
> > Finally, one question that seems to keep coming up for me is how do you
> > handle user authentication and "roaming profiles" in this type of a
> > set-up? I can think of a few ways ... but I've never used Un*x in a true
> > multi-user/desktop environment and wonder how this is done easily?
> > Kerberos? LDAP? Or just basic Un*x authentication?
>
> If the option presents itself, some type of diskless (NICs with boot
> ROMs) workstation setup sounds like it might work out for you. Depending
> on who logs in, the appropriate image gets executed and then personal
> dirs get mounted, either via NFS or SMB. It's easier to manage and
> probably more cost effective, and if you don't use thin clients you
> still have chassis' around so you can play with hardware. Speaking as a
> 31 year old 'kid', I know I love playing with hardware ;)
>
> As for what mechanism you'd use to do this, I don't know. I'm not a fan
> of kerberos but I know that the hospital I used to work at was
> implementing a single sign-on LDAP project across unix and windows
> envionments, but I've never implemented LDAP and don't know enough about
> it to hold an educated opinion. I've seen NIS/NIS+ and NFS used to
> accomplish just what it is you're after, though, and it is the classic
> unix method of doing it :)

Just to add that I used NIS in the past, and was nice.
LDAP allows you to integrate with Active Directory as they (MS) say.

Same issue of integration about NFS/SMB choice. Have you some win boxes 
around? Which one will be server?

We also had DHCP and IP delivered/mapped to each MAC address.
Easy to configure from the server..

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 19:40:56 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 15:40:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <1066146936.1169.36.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
    <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha>
    <5.2.1.1.0.20031014025524.01ea4ab0@mail.interlog.com>
    <1066146936.1169.36.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <1999.216.138.194.32.1066160456.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 03:06, Kevin Cozens wrote:
>> I don't know why they tried to single out Google. The use of cookies is
>> common to a large number of the web sites on the net. Any time you
>> access a
>> web site, your IP address is recorded if the site has logging enabled.
>
> For privacy sensitive individuals having search terms associated to them
> is undesirable. Google could "unassociate" this info.

Why would they want to? They gather the info so they can make up some nice
stats to sell to some suit, and it keeps them afloat. I guess they could
allow us to access their services on a pay-per-use basis, but the tech is
still a little slow for that. :)

If you read the fine print, they only use the info for commercial purposes
as a whole, and they do not sell or pass any individual information on to
their advertisers.

I don't care what anyone says at this point, google is still my friend. :)

-- 
Keith
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 20:04:59 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:04:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <200310141555.02919.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310141555.02919.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310141604340.11565-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

> Just to add that I used NIS in the past, and was nice.
> LDAP allows you to integrate with Active Directory as they (MS) say.

I didn;t know this was possible, how did you do it?


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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 20:07:26 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:07:26 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9311@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I have tried to integrated LDAP with Active Directory and have not met with much success.

I would be grateful to know how others have succeeded.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Justin Zygmont [mailto:jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2003 4:05 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: How to start a revolution?

> Just to add that I used NIS in the past, and was nice.
> LDAP allows you to integrate with Active Directory as they (MS) say.

I didn;t know this was possible, how did you do it?


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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 20:16:22 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:16:22 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310141604340.11565-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310141604340.11565-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <200310141616.23699.marc@lijour.net>

Le 14 Octobre 2003 16:04, Justin Zygmont a ?crit :
> > Just to add that I used NIS in the past, and was nice.
> > LDAP allows you to integrate with Active Directory as they (MS) say.
>
> I didn;t know this was possible, how did you do it?

I did NIS.

I heard somewhere that LDAP could serve as Active Directory through SAMBA. 
Never tried though.


>
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 20:17:12 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:17:12 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <200310141616.23699.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310141616.23699.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310141615350.11603-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> Le 14 Octobre 2003 16:04, Justin Zygmont a ?crit :
> > > Just to add that I used NIS in the past, and was nice.
> > > LDAP allows you to integrate with Active Directory as they (MS) say.
> >
> > I didn;t know this was possible, how did you do it?
> 
> I did NIS.
> 
> I heard somewhere that LDAP could serve as Active Directory through SAMBA. 
> Never tried though.

oh, now I see.  I did try this, but had a hard time.  I would say it is 
not something for production use yet, unless absolutely necessary.


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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 20:57:19 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 14 Oct 2003 16:57:19 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310141152570.1436-100000-zVIyXm3mjq1oM55T5W/052G8O1WwMoTE@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310141152570.1436-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>
Message-ID: <lt8ynnh70w.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

"Teodor Iliescu" <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> writes:

> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Jim Skehill wrote:
> 
> > As I see it I have 4 options:
> > 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> > 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive, install
> > Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> > 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in the
> > Toronto area?)
> > 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who offers
> > this service? How much does it cost?

[snip]

> I have searched the web, and came across ntfsresize, an open source NTFS
> re-sizer. It claims to resize NTFS partitions, which means you
> can try it out on your system. They even mentioned compatibility with XP's
> NTFS (5.1), and they said they had no destroyed filesystems:

I used ntfsresize to reduce the size of the XP partition on my Dell Inspiron
1100.  While it worked, it was unable to reduce it below about 14GB (on a
30GB disk) to the presence of "immovable" sectors.  I used Windows Defrag,
tried disableing the pager file, etc. with no improvement.  In the end, I
reinstalled.

Of course, I haven't actually used XP since then but I keep it around just in
case and because recent annecdotes suggest it's "not fun" to get a refund
from Dell.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
905.771.0017 ext. 225                           thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 20:58:31 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:58:31 -0400
Subject: Googley Woogeley
In-Reply-To: <000601c3921c$eb21b420$a9a19d18-ZK5pCpJID5Y@public.gmane.org>
References: <01f101c3920f$fa402b60$a9a19d18@alpha> <3F8B8BB1.2050404@alteeve.com> <000601c3921c$eb21b420$a9a19d18@alpha>
Message-ID: <3F8C6377.5050602@rogers.com>

cybervoyager wrote:
> What does it have to do with Linux..??? well I want to get off of windows
> and learn linux and unix.. thats what.!!!.. that is why I joined this list..
> 
> Why? do you have a problem with that... just because I want to learn
> or is learning not aloud on this list? And why do you have a problem
> with me addressing this google problem.. I feel it is an important issue
> and not just my personal rant. Everybody uses google blindly,
> without questioning what the website does. Whats wrong with
> raising peoples awareness about such??? .. and  yes even if
> you do not use windoze flavors of OS.
> 
> But yes I agree with your advice.. I would love to learn how to
> write scripts on linux and unix to deal this stuff... but how are people
> like myself going to learn if others more knowledgable are condescending in
> their attitude instead of tuning into the real issues and DOING SOMETHING
> ABOUT IT.. !!! Sure there are tons of websites online with all kinds of
No script programming is needed. Just execute:
$ln -s /dev/null path_to_your_cookies_file

Keep in mind, that cookies remain in RAM until you close your browser.

> linux and unix scripts that do all kinds of things under the sun, but still
> you have to start somewhere, hence lists like this.
Also, don't forget to visit www.linux.org and a to buy a Linux tutorial 
book.

> 
> Thank God we have alternatives like Linux and Unix and even apple OS-X..
> if it was up to M$... I am pretty sure we wouldn't.
> 
Linux isn't an alternative, this is the Only Right Way.

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 21:51:20 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:51:20 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <1066148172.1173.60.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310141152570.1436-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca> <1066148172.1173.60.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F8C6FD8.5080904@rogers.com>

Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 12:08, Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> 
> 
>>I still don't know why computers are being shipped out with one
>>NTFS partition
> 
> 
> Often two partitions, the other a hidden re-install MSWin + suites, so
> they don't have to ship you media (CDs) :-(

My ThinkPad was one of those, with XP on the hidden partiton.  However a 
phone call was all it took to get the CD.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 21:48:18 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:48:18 -0400
Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk
 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <20031014151518.GA383-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310141017530.16027@ns.istop.com> <20031014151518.GA383@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <3F8C6F22.7030601@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 14, 2003 at 10:18:20AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> 
>>Another spam using tlug-real-wSBAafQnSJjhvxM+mQhndA at public.gmane.org
>>
>>Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
>>6042147 Canada Inc.
> 
> 
>>Delivered-To: tlug-real-MHjupGqSvN5g9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org
> 
> 
> Yeah, I got that too.
> 

I didn't.


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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 02:31:06 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:31:06 -0400
Subject: [TLUG-ANNOUNCE]: Updated TLUG announcement
In-Reply-To: <20031014192942.81CA1515-ccvjzJVizCz5OPYHOmv4JA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031014192942.81CA1515@pentagon.ss.org>
Message-ID: <3F8CB16A.3050700@rogers.com>

> Robert loves cats, foreign travel, hiking and roller blading. He maintains
> an active interest in many areas of science and the arts. Robert
> dislikes dictatorships, drivers who don't pay attention on the road,
> and pumpkin. He's not sure why he dislikes pumpkin.

Shame about the pumpkin; it's quite lovely when served with a side of cat.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From garfield-o1KnIK80MWoTRQv+KTR+0w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 03:45:49 2003
From: garfield-o1KnIK80MWoTRQv+KTR+0w at public.gmane.org (Peter M Garfield)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:45:49 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel-3FyN9KwLBikOAsET96VVuuqpMbaZSuSF930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
        <3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com> <50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.A41.4.58.0310142342320.77674@coxeter.math.toronto.edu>


Hi,

On Sat, 11 Oct 2003, Phillip Smith (communitybandwidth.ca) wrote:

> Regarding case studies or examples, what I'm looking for are
> specific instances where a school or learning environment have
> rolled out a mid-sized lab with only Linux or related OS operating
> systems and software. I've got many case studies of OS in the
> non-profit sector (that's my line of work) but not many in the
> education/learning sector ... specifically where I could point to
> them and say "they did it and here's how and let's give them a phone
> call and chat".

There was an article in the Linux Journal a few months back about a
school in the states that converted its computer lab to Linux.   The
article (with some reader comments you might also be interested in) is
available online at

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article.php?sid=6349

You might also search the LJ archives; here's a link to their "Linux
In Education" topic:

http://www.linuxjournal.com/search.php?query=&topic=7

Hope this helps,

Peter

-- 
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Postdoctoral Fellow, University of Toronto
garfield-o1KnIK80MWoTRQv+KTR+0w at public.gmane.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 21:20:41 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:20:41 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310141615350.11603-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310141616.23699.marc@lijour.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310141615350.11603-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031014172041.78a42194.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:17:12 -0400 (EDT)
Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > I heard somewhere that LDAP could serve as Active Directory through
> > SAMBA. Never tried though.
> 
> oh, now I see.  I did try this, but had a hard time.  I would say it
> is not something for production use yet, unless absolutely necessary.

Samba now comes with AD support built in. Some good info and more links
here:

http://www.vnunet.com/News/1144289

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The chief danger in life is that you may take too many precautions.
		-- Alfred Adler
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 01:53:55 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:53:55 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <lt8ynnh70w.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310141152570.1436-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>
	 <lt8ynnh70w.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <1066182834.467.10.camel@localhost>

On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 16:57, Tim Writer wrote:

> I used Windows Defrag,
> tried disableing the pager file, etc. with no improvement.  In the end, I
> reinstalled.

Hmm, previously I overcame the same problem on WinXP by reducing single
partition as much as I could, reboot, making new partition for virtual
memory, changing "advanced" system setting to the new partition, reboot,
shrink primary again, reboot, moving virtual memory back to primary
partition, reboot, removing 2nd partition, reboot.  I think there was
some defrag in there too, and it was a royal pain.

Just prior to that experience (summer 2002), I discovered an interesting
bug with WinXP.  On boot scandisk crashes if virtual file system size is
0 -- I had plenty of real memory stupid.
-> reinstall :-(

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 04:54:28 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:54:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <20031014172041.78a42194.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031014172041.78a42194.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310150052370.13544-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

although I tried this before samba 3.0 came out, I did use samba-tng 
It was patchwork as far as I was concerned, a neat thing to show it was 
actually possible, but not so good otherwise.


On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 16:17:12 -0400 (EDT)
> Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > > I heard somewhere that LDAP could serve as Active Directory through
> > > SAMBA. Never tried though.
> > 
> > oh, now I see.  I did try this, but had a hard time.  I would say it
> > is not something for production use yet, unless absolutely necessary.
> 
> Samba now comes with AD support built in. Some good info and more links
> here:
> 
> http://www.vnunet.com/News/1144289
> 
> 

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 21:45:34 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:45:34 -0400
Subject: spam on the list
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031014143946.9294B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031014143946.9294B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <200310141745.35230.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 14 October 2003 14:40, Henry Spencer wrote:

> > Ok, I stand corrected. There was indeed spam on the list...
>
> Well, on some subset of the list.  (No filters here, and no TLUG spam
> seen either.)

Interesting, perhaps your mail server is one of those that lethe.ss.org has 
connectivity issues with.  They certainly seem to have connectivity issues 
with Sympatico (or did in the past).

Here are the headers from my email:

Return-Path: <get_hung1713-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org>
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From: get_hung1713-kEEcVVa5/RHR7s880joybQ at public.gmane.org
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Subject: Want to be well hung ... like the P0rnstars,   fshujk
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-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 02:10:34 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:10:34 -0400
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
Message-ID: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

Migrated my firewall from P166 to 486-66, had an interesting problem during 
bootup.

Following the message "Freeing unused kernel memory: 64k" (perhaps not exact) 
the kernel paniced with the message "unable to handle kernel paging request" 
(again possibly not exact quote).

I tried passing the kernel a few parameters at boot time and found that by 
passing mem=15000k the system is able to boot just fine.  The system has 16MB 
of total memory.  While that is ok and I have the system booting just fine 
now 15MB leaves things running *very* tight, that extra 1MB could be pretty 
useful.

The only thing that I can think of is that some machines have a "memory hole" 
option in the BIOS that occurs between 15 and 16 MB, I wonder if mine has 
that?  Problem is I cannot get into the BIOS, I've tried numerous function 
keys, escape and delete.  It's an optiplex 486/66.  Any ideas how to get into 
the BIOS, or what else might be causing the issue?

Thanks!
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From jab-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 06:02:10 2003
From: jab-h7HJ8Pof2EbbR28j2ZUwYgC/G2K4zDHf at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:02:10 -0400
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F8CE2E2.1020505@fivefortyfour.com>

I know that on Optiplex P166s, the key combo was ctrl+alt+enter anytime 
the machine was running.

Jeremy Baker

Fraser Campbell wrote:

>Hi,
>
>Migrated my firewall from P166 to 486-66, had an interesting problem during 
>bootup.
>
>Following the message "Freeing unused kernel memory: 64k" (perhaps not exact) 
>the kernel paniced with the message "unable to handle kernel paging request" 
>(again possibly not exact quote).
>
>I tried passing the kernel a few parameters at boot time and found that by 
>passing mem=15000k the system is able to boot just fine.  The system has 16MB 
>of total memory.  While that is ok and I have the system booting just fine 
>now 15MB leaves things running *very* tight, that extra 1MB could be pretty 
>useful.
>
>The only thing that I can think of is that some machines have a "memory hole" 
>option in the BIOS that occurs between 15 and 16 MB, I wonder if mine has 
>that?  Problem is I cannot get into the BIOS, I've tried numerous function 
>keys, escape and delete.  It's an optiplex 486/66.  Any ideas how to get into 
>the BIOS, or what else might be causing the issue?
>
>Thanks!
>  
>


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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 06:03:25 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (Christopher Browne)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 02:03:25 -0400
Subject: Certificate Authorities Other Than VeriSign
Message-ID: <20031015060326.3DA213FC9@cbbrowne.com>

The question was raised tonight of what other possible providers are
out there.  (Apparently some people are Not Entirely Thrilled with
VeriSign.  I have seen some amusing misspellings of their name
recently...)

Here are the certificates that are included in the Debian package
"ca-certificates".  The list includes VeriSign-related companies, but
also a bunch of certs from other organizations.

If you look carefully at your favorite graphical web browser's
configuration, you will doubtless see a similar list.  "Internet
Exploder" might include a few additional certs...

wolfe:/usr/share/ca-certificates# wajig detail ca-certificates
Package: ca-certificates
Priority: optional
Section: misc
Installed-Size: 376
Maintainer: Fumitoshi UKAI <ukai-8fiUuRrzOP3bmG5+kqVDhQ at public.gmane.org>
Architecture: all
Version: 20031007
Depends: openssl, debconf (>= 0.5.00)
Filename: pool/main/c/ca-certificates/ca-certificates_20031007_all.deb
Size: 57614
MD5sum: 122cf049eb18b988c9646a78ae7789e8
Description: Common CA Certificates PEM files
 It includes the followings PEM files of CA certificates
 .
  * spi-inc.org certificate
  * db.debian.org certificate
  * Mozilla builtin CA certificates
 .
 This is useful for any openssl applications to verify
 SSL connection.
Enhances: libssl0.9.6, openssl

wolfe:/usr/share/ca-certificates# find
.
./spi-inc.org
./spi-inc.org/spi-ca.crt
./debian.org
./debian.org/db.debian.org.crt
./mozilla
./mozilla/AOL_Time_Warner_Root_Certification_Authority_1.crt
./mozilla/ABAecom_=sub.__Am._Bankers_Assn.=_Root_CA.crt
./mozilla/Thawte_Time_Stamping_CA.crt
./mozilla/Thawte_Server_CA.crt
./mozilla/AOL_Time_Warner_Root_Certification_Authority_2.crt
./mozilla/AddTrust_External_Root.crt
./mozilla/AddTrust_Low-Value_Services_Root.crt
./mozilla/AddTrust_Public_Services_Root.crt
./mozilla/AddTrust_Qualified_Certificates_Root.crt
./mozilla/America_Online_Root_Certification_Authority_1.crt
./mozilla/America_Online_Root_Certification_Authority_2.crt
./mozilla/Baltimore_CyberTrust_Root.crt
./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_1.crt
./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_2.crt
./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_3.crt
./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_4.crt
./mozilla/Entrust.net_Global_Secure_Personal_CA.crt
./mozilla/Entrust.net_Global_Secure_Server_CA.crt
./mozilla/Entrust.net_Premium_2048_Secure_Server_CA.crt
./mozilla/Entrust.net_Secure_Personal_CA.crt
./mozilla/Entrust.net_Secure_Server_CA.crt
./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_CA.crt
./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_Global_eBusiness_CA.crt
./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_eBusiness_CA_1.crt
./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_eBusiness_CA_2.crt
./mozilla/GTE_CyberTrust_Global_Root.crt
./mozilla/GTE_CyberTrust_Root_CA.crt
./mozilla/GeoTrust_Global_CA.crt
./mozilla/GlobalSign_Root_CA.crt
./mozilla/RSA_Root_Certificate_1.crt
./mozilla/RSA_Security_1024_v3.crt
./mozilla/RSA_Security_2048_v3.crt
./mozilla/TC_TrustCenter__Germany__Class_2_CA.crt
./mozilla/TC_TrustCenter__Germany__Class_3_CA.crt
./mozilla/Thawte_Personal_Basic_CA.crt
./mozilla/Thawte_Personal_Freemail_CA.crt
./mozilla/Thawte_Personal_Premium_CA.crt
./mozilla/Thawte_Premium_Server_CA.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Secure_Server_OCSP_Responder.crt
./mozilla/UTN-USER_First-Network_Applications.crt
./mozilla/ValiCert_Class_1_VA.crt
./mozilla/ValiCert_Class_2_VA.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_RSA_Secure_Server_CA.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_OCSP_Responder.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_OCSP_Responder.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_OCSP_Responder.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_4_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Class_4_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
./mozilla/Visa_eCommerce_Root.crt
./mozilla/Verisign_Time_Stamping_Authority_CA.crt
./mozilla/Visa_International_Global_Root_2.crt
./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA.crt
./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA-Baltimore_Implementation.crt
./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA_-_Entrust_Implementation.crt
./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA_-_RSA_Implementation.crt
-- 
output = reverse("gro.gultn" "@" "enworbbc")
http://cbbrowne.com/info/oses.html
Howe's Law:
        Everyone has a scheme that will not work.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 21:26:30 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:26:30 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555380.15903-100000-G4iNdIupK6G7vFAssF7eVSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031013140731.43d55d9a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131555380.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <20031013172630.5da538ea.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:02:49 -0400 (EDT)
Emir Alikadic <emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I just noticed that your mail account is @sympatico.ca, which leads me
> to believe that you're not running your own mail server and thus
> server side SPAM filtering is handled by Sympatico.  Don't you think
> it's possible that Sympatico's filters might have detected the SPAM
> and deleted it before you had a chance to download it?  That would
> certainly make you unqualified to post on this thread with any
> authority on the issue.

Actually, I've opted out of their spam filtering sol'n and implemented
my own. I monitor my logs quite often to check for false positives, and
so would notice any spam coming from this list or any other source.

Nice try at a troll, but I've dealt with the best.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't abandon hope: your Tom Mix decoder ring arrives tomorrow.
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 08:05:20 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
Message-ID: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net>

You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 08:35:57 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:35:57 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <200310150405.21996.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
"Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)

Isn't that only for Club members?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, you know, no matter where you go, there you are.
		-- Buckaroo Banzai
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 08:38:26 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:38:26 -0400
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <200310142210.34136.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031015043826.557a8976.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 22:10:34 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> The only thing that I can think of is that some machines have a
> "memory hole" option in the BIOS that occurs between 15 and 16 MB, I
> wonder if mine has that?  Problem is I cannot get into the BIOS, I've
> tried numerous function keys, escape and delete.  It's an optiplex
> 486/66.  Any ideas how to get into the BIOS, or what else might be
> causing the issue?

I had probs getting into the BIOS of an old Compaq (gone now, thank
$DEITY), turns out you need a BIOS utility. Maybe same situation here?

Try the Dell site for floppy images.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You climb to reach the summit, but once there, discover that all roads
lead down.
		-- Stanislaw Lem, "The Cyberiad"
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 08:40:35 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:40:35 -0400
Subject: spam on the list
In-Reply-To: <200310141745.35230.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031014143946.9294B-100000@spsystems.net>
	<200310141745.35230.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031015044035.33be1d56.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003 17:45:34 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Interesting, perhaps your mail server is one of those that
> lethe.ss.org has connectivity issues with.  They certainly seem to
> have connectivity issues with Sympatico (or did in the past).

Maybe that explains why I'm not getting it, the spam, that is ;-), and
why I wasn't getting list mail at all for a few months, thought the list
had died.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
FORTUNE'S RULES TO LIVE BY: #23
	Don't cut off a police car when making an illegal U-turn.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 08:43:47 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:43:47 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310150052370.13544-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031014172041.78a42194.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310150052370.13544-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031015044347.0ca2af79.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 00:54:28 -0400 (EDT)
Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> although I tried this before samba 3.0 came out, I did use samba-tng 
> It was patchwork as far as I was concerned, a neat thing to show it
> was actually possible, but not so good otherwise.

I think you might find it different now with Ver 3.0. I have not tried
it myself, but the propaganda sounds good:

"Industry observers said that version 3 is a major update to the Samba
software. Changes include support for Microsoft Active Directory;
commands that use a similar syntax to Microsoft's net.exe command line
tool; and full support for client and server SMB signing. A new "net"
command should make it easier for administrators of Windows servers to
transition to Samba systems. And the SMB signing feature will ensure
compatibility with default Windows 2003 security settings, said Samba."

http://www.vnunet.com/News/1143267

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ninety percent of everything is crap.
		-- Theodore Sturgeon
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 11:44:32 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin Acton)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 07:44:32 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net>
	 <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 04:35, JoeHill wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
> "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)
> 
> Isn't that only for Club members?

Yes, bittorrent access is supposed to be for club members only (although
I'm sure someone will leak the torrents eventually).  This is for the
ISO's only, and they will be posted publicly in two weeks.

Of course the mirrors already contain the 9.2 tree, so you can install
by http of ftp if you have broadband....

BTW, it's a KILLER release!

Austin
-- 
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 12:15:39 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:15:39 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <1066218269.2027.4.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net> <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net>

Le 15 Octobre 2003 07:44, Austin Acton a ?crit :
> On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 04:35, JoeHill wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
> >
> > "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > > You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)
> >
> > Isn't that only for Club members?
>
> Yes, bittorrent access is supposed to be for club members only (although
> I'm sure someone will leak the torrents eventually).  This is for the
> ISO's only, and they will be posted publicly in two weeks.

The logic of bittorrent isn't it that the more we share the faster it goes?


> Of course the mirrors already contain the 9.2 tree, so you can install
> by http of ftp if you have broadband....
>
> BTW, it's a KILLER release!
>
> Austin

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 12:47:07 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 08:47:07 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: spam on the list
In-Reply-To: <200310141745.35230.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310141745.35230.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031015084344.22043A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 14 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> > Well, on some subset of the list.  (No filters here, and no TLUG spam
> > seen either.)
> 
> Interesting, perhaps your mail server is one of those that lethe.ss.org has 
> connectivity issues with...

No connectivity problems here that I've seen, although an occasional delay
I might not notice.  (My machine, spsystems.net, *is* my mail server.)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 13:36:51 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 09:36:51 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pure microshit
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com>

With all the media hype I decided to check out puretracks.com this
morning.  It seems they're not smart enough to know about Apache...

HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
Internet Information Services

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.
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From jason-2F8E0OLjuh154TAoqtyWWQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 14:24:44 2003
From: jason-2F8E0OLjuh154TAoqtyWWQ at public.gmane.org (Jason Slaughter)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:24:44 -0400
Subject: Certificate Authorities Other Than VeriSign
In-Reply-To: <20031015060326.3DA213FC9-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031015060326.3DA213FC9@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <200310151024.45127.jason@slaughter.com>

> The question was raised tonight of what other possible providers are
> out there.  (Apparently some people are Not Entirely Thrilled with
> VeriSign.  I have seen some amusing misspellings of their name
> recently...)

There are definitely others out there. The second-largest is GeoTrust, which 
are listed here under GeoTrust as well as Equifax--a certificate root they 
acquired.

If you're looking for a cert, your best bet is to go to RackShack. They sell 
GeoTrust certificates below cost (as well as domains below cost) to drum up 
business for their hosting packages:

http://www.ev1servers.net/english/quickssldetails.asp

I don't work for RackShack, so I'm not posting this as an advertisment for 
them, but I do work for GeoTrust's largest reseller, which is how I know they 
sell below cost. In fact, they sell them about 70% below cost.

Jason

>
> Here are the certificates that are included in the Debian package
> "ca-certificates".  The list includes VeriSign-related companies, but
> also a bunch of certs from other organizations.
>
> If you look carefully at your favorite graphical web browser's
> configuration, you will doubtless see a similar list.  "Internet
> Exploder" might include a few additional certs...
>
> wolfe:/usr/share/ca-certificates# wajig detail ca-certificates
> Package: ca-certificates
> Priority: optional
> Section: misc
> Installed-Size: 376
> Maintainer: Fumitoshi UKAI <ukai-8fiUuRrzOP3bmG5+kqVDhQ at public.gmane.org>
> Architecture: all
> Version: 20031007
> Depends: openssl, debconf (>= 0.5.00)
> Filename: pool/main/c/ca-certificates/ca-certificates_20031007_all.deb
> Size: 57614
> MD5sum: 122cf049eb18b988c9646a78ae7789e8
> Description: Common CA Certificates PEM files
>  It includes the followings PEM files of CA certificates
>  .
>   * spi-inc.org certificate
>   * db.debian.org certificate
>   * Mozilla builtin CA certificates
>  .
>  This is useful for any openssl applications to verify
>  SSL connection.
> Enhances: libssl0.9.6, openssl
>
> wolfe:/usr/share/ca-certificates# find
> .
> ./spi-inc.org
> ./spi-inc.org/spi-ca.crt
> ./debian.org
> ./debian.org/db.debian.org.crt
> ./mozilla
> ./mozilla/AOL_Time_Warner_Root_Certification_Authority_1.crt
> ./mozilla/ABAecom_=sub.__Am._Bankers_Assn.=_Root_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Thawte_Time_Stamping_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Thawte_Server_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/AOL_Time_Warner_Root_Certification_Authority_2.crt
> ./mozilla/AddTrust_External_Root.crt
> ./mozilla/AddTrust_Low-Value_Services_Root.crt
> ./mozilla/AddTrust_Public_Services_Root.crt
> ./mozilla/AddTrust_Qualified_Certificates_Root.crt
> ./mozilla/America_Online_Root_Certification_Authority_1.crt
> ./mozilla/America_Online_Root_Certification_Authority_2.crt
> ./mozilla/Baltimore_CyberTrust_Root.crt
> ./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_1.crt
> ./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_2.crt
> ./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_3.crt
> ./mozilla/Digital_Signature_Trust_Co._Global_CA_4.crt
> ./mozilla/Entrust.net_Global_Secure_Personal_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Entrust.net_Global_Secure_Server_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Entrust.net_Premium_2048_Secure_Server_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Entrust.net_Secure_Personal_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Entrust.net_Secure_Server_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_Global_eBusiness_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_eBusiness_CA_1.crt
> ./mozilla/Equifax_Secure_eBusiness_CA_2.crt
> ./mozilla/GTE_CyberTrust_Global_Root.crt
> ./mozilla/GTE_CyberTrust_Root_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/GeoTrust_Global_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/GlobalSign_Root_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/RSA_Root_Certificate_1.crt
> ./mozilla/RSA_Security_1024_v3.crt
> ./mozilla/RSA_Security_2048_v3.crt
> ./mozilla/TC_TrustCenter__Germany__Class_2_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/TC_TrustCenter__Germany__Class_3_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Thawte_Personal_Basic_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Thawte_Personal_Freemail_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Thawte_Personal_Premium_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Thawte_Premium_Server_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Secure_Server_OCSP_Responder.crt
> ./mozilla/UTN-USER_First-Network_Applications.crt
> ./mozilla/ValiCert_Class_1_VA.crt
> ./mozilla/ValiCert_Class_2_VA.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_RSA_Secure_Server_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_1_Public_Primary_OCSP_Responder.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_2_Public_Primary_OCSP_Responder.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_3_Public_Primary_OCSP_Responder.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_4_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G2.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Class_4_Public_Primary_Certification_Authority_-_G3.crt
> ./mozilla/Visa_eCommerce_Root.crt
> ./mozilla/Verisign_Time_Stamping_Authority_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/Visa_International_Global_Root_2.crt
> ./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA.crt
> ./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA-Baltimore_Implementation.crt
> ./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA_-_Entrust_Implementation.crt
> ./mozilla/beTRUSTed_Root_CA_-_RSA_Implementation.crt

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From ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 14:27:21 2003
From: ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ at public.gmane.org (Scott Adams)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:27:21 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310151027.21015.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>

lol, figures
also all the files are in WMP format :(
Quote From Site "All of our music files are in Windows Media format, so you 
will need to download Windows Media Player"
:(
Scott


On October 15, 2003 9:36 am, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> With all the media hype I decided to check out puretracks.com this
> morning.  It seems they're not smart enough to know about Apache...
>
> HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
> Internet Information Services
>
> Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
> 6042147 Canada Inc.
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 22:42:09 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 18:42:09 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <200310150815.40677.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>; from marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org on Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 08:15:39 -0400
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net> <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031014224209.GA2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/15/2003 08:15:39 AM, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)  
wrote:
> The logic of bittorrent isn't it that the more we share the faster it
> goes?

Yes, but Mandrake desperately needs cash, so they are trying to add  
some value to being a club member.  At first we (developers) were very  
upset about this but we later decided that:

1. two weeks isn't that long to wait for non-club members
2. it MAY actually encourage more people to join the club
3. the rpms are all available by urpmi anyway... so you don't really  
need the iso
4. the torrent will probably leak from the club anyway

Austin
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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 14:39:53 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 10:39:53 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F8D5C39.9060004@codemonkeys.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 15/10/2003 9:36, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
| With all the media hype I decided to check out puretracks.com this
| morning.  It seems they're not smart enough to know about Apache...
|
| HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
| Internet Information Services

Not being able to reach their site and having read Matt Goyer's review
(http://blog.mattgoyer.com/2003/10/14.html#a2838), I'd say good luck to them.
~ Their license is overly restrictive, their site unstable, and they don't
support #1 portable player - iPod.

My question is this: how do these companies get funding?  Are the record
companies so desperate they're funding clearly inept people (c.f. SunnComm)?
- --
Emir.

"The rancorous Supreme Court pronouncement on the 2000 Presidential election
~ ought to remind everyone that the US' legal system is at best a lottery,
~ and at worst, deeply swayed by human vices."             -- Andrew Orlowski
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/jVw4uSy542G+Z7QRAolZAJ9O0ygs59GU6l0nlvn+H+hGd2NlGQCfemj4
r9TfR7tiIr+jvC0iafGhYMA=
=r5SR
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 15:12:44 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 11:12:44 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <20031014224209.GA2199-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net>
 <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net>
 <20031014224209.GA2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031015110529.028d2050@pop1.sympatico.ca>



At 06:42 PM 10/14/03, you wrote:
>On 10/15/2003 08:15:39 AM, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)
>wrote:
>>The logic of bittorrent isn't it that the more we share the faster it
>>goes?
>
>Yes, but Mandrake desperately needs cash, so they are trying to add
>some value to being a club member.  At first we (developers) were very
>upset about this but we later decided that:
>
>1. two weeks isn't that long to wait for non-club members
>2. it MAY actually encourage more people to join the club
>3. the rpms are all available by urpmi anyway... so you don't really
>need the iso

Please elaborate on this or point me to a reference. I ended up blowing 
away my 9.0 because I didn't have enough disk space to do 9.1 as an update 
using my CheapBytes CDs. So I am hoping urpmi can operate incrementally. I 
suppose order of packages is important.

Thanks ...

>4. the torrent will probably leak from the club anyway
>
>Austin
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 14 23:30:26 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 19:30:26 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031015110529.028d2050-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>; from echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 11:12:44 -0400
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net> <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net> <20031014224209.GA2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <6.0.0.22.2.20031015110529.028d2050@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031014233026.GG2224@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/15/2003 11:12:44 AM, Elliott Chapin wrote:
> Please elaborate on this or point me to a reference. I ended up  
> blowing away my 9.0 because I didn't have enough disk space to do 9.1  
> as an update using my CheapBytes CDs. So I am hoping urpmi can  
> operate incrementally. I suppose order of packages is important.

Urpmi works almost exactly like apt-get.  I'm amazed how few people  
know about this, since Mandrake has been using it for years.

To add a new repository:
# urpmi.addmedia <name> <location>
where location can be an ftp, http, local, etc.
See the http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3 for a list of mirrors.

To update the repositories (local ones excluded):
# urpmi.update -a

To install a package, and all it's dependencies:
# urpmi <package name>

To remove a package:
# urpme <package name>

To upgrade the whole distro:
# urpmi --auto-select

All of this is explained at urpmi.org as well as $ man urpmi.

Note that on the mirrors, there are floppy images available if you want  
to install the whole distro by ftp or http or hd.

Austin
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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 16:46:22 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jay Carson)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 12:46:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <1066218269.2027.4.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net>
    <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <56234.66.11.182.5.1066236382.squirrel@cbits.ca>

I'm looking forward to it.. I have a hard drive ready and waiting for the
public ISO to be released :-)

> On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 04:35, JoeHill wrote:
>> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
>> "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>> > You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)
>>
>> Isn't that only for Club members?
>
> Yes, bittorrent access is supposed to be for club members only (although
> I'm sure someone will leak the torrents eventually).  This is for the
> ISO's only, and they will be posted publicly in two weeks.
>
> Of course the mirrors already contain the 9.2 tree, so you can install
> by http of ftp if you have broadband....
>
> BTW, it's a KILLER release!
>
> Austin
> --
>                                  Austin Acton
>         Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
>                Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>         MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 01:02:36 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 21:02:36 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <56234.66.11.182.5.1066236382.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org>; from jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org on Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 12:46:22 -0400
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net> <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <56234.66.11.182.5.1066236382.squirrel@cbits.ca>
Message-ID: <20031015010236.GA2359@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/15/2003 12:46:22 PM, Jay Carson wrote:
> I'm looking forward to it.. I have a hard drive ready and waiting for
> the
> public ISO to be released :-)

Don't forget to add the 'contrib' repository.
That's where most of the cool apps are, not to mention where most of my  
work is too...
It's on all the mirrors.

Austin
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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 17:22:50 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 13:22:50 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <20031014233026.GG2224-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net>
 <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net>
 <20031014224209.GA2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
 <6.0.0.22.2.20031015110529.028d2050@pop1.sympatico.ca>
 <20031014233026.GG2224@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031015130804.028589c0@pop1.sympatico.ca>

There doesn't seem to be a way for urpmi to get me from 9.1 to 9.2. So I 
made up a boot floppy with network.img. Once that was up and running all 
was fine until I hit the source panel (ftp site, directory). Despite 
connection and various guesses as to how deep into the tree to go I got a 
report that mdk_inststage2.bz2 couldn't be found. Perhaps there's a bit of 
"common knowledge" that I've missed re how to fill in the "directory" field.

Thanks again for any advice.

At 07:30 PM 10/14/03, you wrote:
>On 10/15/2003 11:12:44 AM, Elliott Chapin wrote:
>>Please elaborate on this or point me to a reference. I ended up
>>blowing away my 9.0 because I didn't have enough disk space to do 9.1
>>as an update using my CheapBytes CDs. So I am hoping urpmi can
>>operate incrementally. I suppose order of packages is important.
>
>Urpmi works almost exactly like apt-get.  I'm amazed how few people
>know about this, since Mandrake has been using it for years.
>
>To add a new repository:
># urpmi.addmedia <name> <location>
>where location can be an ftp, http, local, etc.
>See the http://www.mandrakelinux.com/en/ftp.php3 for a list of mirrors.
>
>To update the repositories (local ones excluded):
># urpmi.update -a
>
>To install a package, and all it's dependencies:
># urpmi <package name>
>
>To remove a package:
># urpme <package name>
>
>To upgrade the whole distro:
># urpmi --auto-select
>
>All of this is explained at urpmi.org as well as $ man urpmi.
>
>Note that on the mirrors, there are floppy images available if you want
>to install the whole distro by ftp or http or hd.
>
>Austin
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 18:45:07 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 14:45:07 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
Message-ID: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com>


I'm thinking about setting up CVS in my office to handle versioning of 
documents etc- i've got a number of Windows XP machines for general use 
and Linux boxes for development etc.

I used SourceSafe at my last job and know the use/power of something 
like CVS for version control etc. I'll set up a wiki for office use also.

I also need to set up something for a central control of contacts, 
appointments, tasks etc- that both my windows and linux machines can use

I need some advice on setting these up on my linux server (p4 2.8 Ghz, 
1GB ram, 360GB storage, red hat 9.0)

regards,
Kerry


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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 03:12:39 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 2003 23:12:39 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031015130804.028589c0-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>; from echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 13:22:50 -0400
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net> <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net> <20031014224209.GA2199@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <6.0.0.22.2.20031015110529.028d2050@pop1.sympatico.ca> <20031014233026.GG2224@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <6.0.0.22.2.20031015130804.028589c0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031015031239.GA2400@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/15/2003 01:22:50 PM, Elliott Chapin wrote:
> There doesn't seem to be a way for urpmi to get me from 9.1 to 9.2.

Of course there is... that's what it's for.

# urpmi.addmedia 9.2  
http://mandrake.redbox.cz/Mandrake/9.2/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/

Then upgrade the distro
# urpmi --auto-select

Couldn't be much easier than that.

If you decide to use the installer (DrakX), point it to the same  
address as above up to (and including) i586.  I agree that this is not  
obvious.

If you want the contribs apps too:
# urpmi.addmedia contrib9.2  
http://mandrake.redbox.cz/Mandrake/9.2/contrib/i586/

Oh and sunet.se and uninett.no are also good mirrors, but you'll have  
to look up the directory tree which is slightly different.

Austin 
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From rico.juan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 15:26:55 2003
From: rico.juan-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Juan Rico)
Date: 15 Oct 2003 11:26:55 -0400
Subject: NTFS and Linux
In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F-zjka4IdDAzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B5F@RIKER>
Message-ID: <1066231615.4361.30.camel@mayabee>

On Tue, 2003-10-14 at 11:06, Jim Skehill wrote:
> I just bought a new laptop by Toshiba and was getting all set to install
> Linux. (I installed Mandrake 8.2 on my Desktop machine just over a year ago
> and and was very happy with it.)
> But recently I found out that I may have problems because the laptop has
> Windows XP installed on it. XP uses the NT file system (NTFS) which provides
> a problem for most Linux partitioning tools.
> 
> As I see it I have 4 options:
> 1) Buy Partition Magic.
> 2) Blow away the existing install of XP, repartition the hard drive, install
> Linux, reinstall XP, etc.
> 3) Go to a Linux Install Fest. (Does anybody know if one is coming up in the
> Toronto area?)
> 4) Pay someone to repartition the hard drive and install Linux. (Who offers
> this service? How much does it cost?)
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Regards,
> Jim.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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Jim:

A couple of ideas for you:

1) Toshiba Linux community has a website to support those Toshiba
drivers not found in the commercial distros:

http://linux.toshiba-dme.co.jp/linux/

2) Forget Windows XP !! You do not need it. Leave your laptop "running"
Linux using any of the commercial distributions available.

3) Unfortunately Toshiba Canada does not provide technical support for
Laptops "running" Linux. However, you may call 1-800-663-0378 and ask
for Hector or Juan and we would try to do our best.

-- 
Juan M. Rico
Toshiba Canada Technical Support

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 19:54:42 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 15:54:42 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <20031015031239.GA2400-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net> <6.0.0.22.2.20031015130804.028589c0@pop1.sympatico.ca> <20031015031239.GA2400@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <200310151554.44279.marc@lijour.net>

Le 14 Octobre 2003 23:12, Austin a ?crit :
> On 10/15/2003 01:22:50 PM, Elliott Chapin wrote:
> > There doesn't seem to be a way for urpmi to get me from 9.1 to 9.2.
>
> Of course there is... that's what it's for.
>
> # urpmi.addmedia 9.2
> http://mandrake.redbox.cz/Mandrake/9.2/i586/Mandrake/RPMS/
>
> Then upgrade the distro
> # urpmi --auto-select
>
> Couldn't be much easier than that.
>
> If you decide to use the installer (DrakX), point it to the same
> address as above up to (and including) i586.  I agree that this is not
> obvious.
>
> If you want the contribs apps too:
> # urpmi.addmedia contrib9.2
> http://mandrake.redbox.cz/Mandrake/9.2/contrib/i586/
>
> Oh and sunet.se and uninett.no are also good mirrors, but you'll have
> to look up the directory tree which is slightly different.
>
> Austin

Thank you Austin!

Look at this nice php link too. Couldn't be easier to issue the urpmi.addmedia 
commands:

<http://plf.zarb.org/~nanardon/index.php>


> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 20:13:13 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:13:13 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310151613.14891.marc@lijour.net>

Le 13 Octobre 2003 21:33, Ralph Doncaster a ?crit :
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Kristofer Coward wrote:
> > As far as I can tell, current market prices for residential DSL (if not
> > also for business DSL) are too low to support the quality of customer
> > service that Velocet provided[0] (pre-Wiznet).
>
> [...]
>
> > 0) eg. actually providing some degree of real Linux/Unix tech support
>
> That's news to me; we've been offering a full-service account for ages
> @$34.49/mth.  For Linux we were supporting RP and Jamal Hadi &  Andi
> Kleen's PPPoE clients for 2.2 (we recommended Jamal & Andi's).  On 2.4 we
> support the kernel built-in PPPoE.  We've even helped a few customers
> using BSD.
>
> -Ralph

Advice for a (good/well-priced) ADSL modem? (I currently rent one)
Thanks.

Marc

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 20:17:25 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:17:25 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
> Internet Information Services

I guess Microsoft doesn't know what an integer means.
The RFC for HTTP error codes describe using only integers, such as 404, 
401, 403, 500, and so forth. It does not mention anything about decimals.

Source:
http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html

I have seen only this behaviour on Microsoft IIS servers.

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 20:35:24 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:35:24 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <20031015203524.GA513@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 04:17:25PM -0400, Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> 
> > HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
> > Internet Information Services
> 
> I guess Microsoft doesn't know what an integer means.
> The RFC for HTTP error codes describe using only integers, such as 404, 
> 401, 403, 500, and so forth. It does not mention anything about decimals.
> 
> Source:
> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html
> 
> I have seen only this behaviour on Microsoft IIS servers.

Well, it's business, right.  They want to differentiate their product
from their competitor, and hopefully lock-in their customers.  Netscape
is/was doing that, IBM is/was doing that, Redhat is/was doing that,
GM is/was doing that.  Your point is?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 20:37:22 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:37:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151625110.1045@xword.rogers.com>

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Teodor Iliescu wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> > HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
> > Internet Information Services
>
> I guess Microsoft doesn't know what an integer means.
> The RFC for HTTP error codes describe using only integers, such as 404,
> 401, 403, 500, and so forth. It does not mention anything about decimals.

    403.9 is not a decimal, it's two integers separated by a dot. ;)

> Source:
> http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html
>
> I have seen only this behaviour on Microsoft IIS servers.


-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 20:34:56 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 16:34:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <200310142210.34136.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <1318.216.138.194.32.1066250096.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Hi,
>
> Migrated my firewall from P166 to 486-66, had an interesting problem
> during bootup.
>
> Following the message "Freeing unused kernel memory: 64k" (perhaps not
> exact) the kernel paniced with the message "unable to handle kernel
> paging request" (again possibly not exact quote).
>
> I tried passing the kernel a few parameters at boot time and found that
> by passing mem=15000k the system is able to boot just fine.  The system
> has 16MB of total memory.  While that is ok and I have the system
> booting just fine now 15MB leaves things running *very* tight, that
> extra 1MB could be pretty useful.
>
> The only thing that I can think of is that some machines have a "memory
> hole" option in the BIOS that occurs between 15 and 16 MB, I wonder if
> mine has that?  Problem is I cannot get into the BIOS, I've tried
> numerous function keys, escape and delete.  It's an optiplex 486/66.
> Any ideas how to get into the BIOS, or what else might be causing the
> issue?

Try Alt-F1 and Alt-F2

I think the memory hole is for SCO, no? :)) buggers... Is it possible that
you have a bad stick of RAM?

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 17:59:20 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 19:59:20 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <200310142210.34136.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151958130.630@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Try tapping F1 repeatedly while you boot ? Or hold a key down (any key)
and reboot. This should stop the boot process and ask about the stuck
keyboard, maybe with an option to edit the bios (could be F1 to continue
F2 to edit).

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 21:13:17 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:13:17 +0200 (IST)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031015203524.GA513-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000@tosh5100.net>
 <20031015203524.GA513@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310152312190.874@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> Well, it's business, right.  They want to differentiate their product
> from their competitor, and hopefully lock-in their customers.  Netscape
> is/was doing that, IBM is/was doing that, Redhat is/was doing that,
> GM is/was doing that.  Your point is?

The point would be that they have so many bugs the integer space is not
enough to describe them so they had to add decimals ?

Peter
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 21:24:56 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:24:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <200310151613.14891.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com> <200310151613.14891.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465@ns.istop.com>

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> Advice for a (good/well-priced) ADSL modem? (I currently rent one)
> Thanks.

The Alcatel speedtouch home is generally regarded as one of the best, but
the only way you'll find one under $100 is 2nd-hand.

The GNet(GVC) modems are not as reliable, but the warranty and support
makes up for it.

Lately we've been selling refurbished Speedstream 5260 modems and have
found them to work almost as well as the Alcatels.  I don't think you'll
find them at your local computer store though.

-Ralph

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 21:47:55 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:47:55 -0400
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <200310142210.34136.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F8DC08B.8000601@rogers.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Migrated my firewall from P166 to 486-66, had an interesting problem during 
> bootup.
> 
> Following the message "Freeing unused kernel memory: 64k" (perhaps not exact) 
> the kernel paniced with the message "unable to handle kernel paging request" 
> (again possibly not exact quote).
> 
> I tried passing the kernel a few parameters at boot time and found that by 
> passing mem=15000k the system is able to boot just fine.  The system has 16MB 
> of total memory.  While that is ok and I have the system booting just fine 
> now 15MB leaves things running *very* tight, that extra 1MB could be pretty 
> useful.
> 
> The only thing that I can think of is that some machines have a "memory hole" 
> option in the BIOS that occurs between 15 and 16 MB, I wonder if mine has 
> that?  Problem is I cannot get into the BIOS, I've tried numerous function 
> keys, escape and delete.  It's an optiplex 486/66.  Any ideas how to get into 
> the BIOS, or what else might be causing the issue?

Go to the Dell web site, to see if there's any info on it.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 21:57:07 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:57:07 -0400
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151958130.630-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151958130.630@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F8DC2B3.7040508@rogers.com>

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> Try tapping F1 repeatedly while you boot ? Or hold a key down (any key)
> and reboot. This should stop the boot process and ask about the stuck
> keyboard, maybe with an option to edit the bios (could be F1 to continue
> F2 to edit).

Keyboard not found.  Press any key to continue.  ;-)


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From tom-X19vj+WbKj3k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 22:06:41 2003
From: tom-X19vj+WbKj3k1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Thomas Wright)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 18:06:41 -0400
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <3F8DC2B3.7040508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151958130.630@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F8DC2B3.7040508@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <oprw3udfxb7mg79v@smtp>

support.dell.com

some machines use f8, some f2 and some the del key but all are described 
on on the dell support site.
see 
http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/document.asp?DN=1045712#Dimension#Dimension
for some clues

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 17:57:07 -0400, James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> 
wrote:

> Peter L. Peres wrote:
>> Try tapping F1 repeatedly while you boot ? Or hold a key down (any key)
>> and reboot. This should stop the boot process and ask about the stuck
>> keyboard, maybe with an option to edit the bios (could be F1 to continue
>> F2 to edit).
>
> Keyboard not found.  Press any key to continue.  ;-)
>
>
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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 15 21:37:26 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 00:37:26 +0300
Subject: about Wiznet
Message-ID: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342@hotmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://gtalug.org/pipermail/legacy/attachments/20031016/1c8b186d/attachment.html>

From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 01:20:47 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:20:47 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <200310151613.14891.marc@lijour.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310152120.48866.marc@lijour.net>

Le 15 Octobre 2003 17:24, Ralph Doncaster a ?crit :
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Advice for a (good/well-priced) ADSL modem? (I currently rent one)
> > Thanks.
>
> The Alcatel speedtouch home is generally regarded as one of the best, but
> the only way you'll find one under $100 is 2nd-hand.
>
> The GNet(GVC) modems are not as reliable, but the warranty and support
> makes up for it.
>
> Lately we've been selling refurbished Speedstream 5260 modems and have
> found them to work almost as well as the Alcatels.  I don't think you'll
> find them at your local computer store though.
>
> -Ralph

Thank you. Much appreciated.

I may try a move to you guys. I get the modem first :)

(I'd also have to read my current contract... to know how to finish it!)


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From rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 01:23:26 2003
From: rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Chris Keelan)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:23:26 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <200310152120.48866.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net>
	<200310151613.14891.marc@lijour.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465@ns.istop.com>
	<200310152120.48866.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031015212326.5684f7cc.rufmetal@eol.ca>

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:20:47 -0400
"Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I may try a move to you guys. I get the modem first :)

I found a Speedtouch, sans packaging, by looking in Computer
Shopper. I paid $120 for mine. Can't remember the vendor, but I'm sure
the ad is still running.

~ C

-- 
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                     ****
Well I thought you beat "The Death of Inevitability" to death
--just a little bit!  ~ Tragically Hip
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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 01:36:44 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Sergey Semenyuk)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:36:44 -0400
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <1318.216.138.194.32.1066250096.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <1318.216.138.194.32.1066250096.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <000e01c39386$01828ea0$0102a8c0@winxp>

Well, it's a tricky thing. Try to hold Enter or shift or alt or ctrl  or
all of them when you turn the box on until you get a keyboard error+ F#
to run setup. It helps me (I have OptiPlex P90.....). Other known key
combinations haven't worked for me so far. :)

Sergey

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Keith
Mastin
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 4:35 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?


> Hi,
>
> Migrated my firewall from P166 to 486-66, had an interesting problem
> during bootup.
>
> Following the message "Freeing unused kernel memory: 64k" (perhaps not
> exact) the kernel paniced with the message "unable to handle kernel
> paging request" (again possibly not exact quote).
>
> I tried passing the kernel a few parameters at boot time and found
that
> by passing mem=15000k the system is able to boot just fine.  The
system
> has 16MB of total memory.  While that is ok and I have the system
> booting just fine now 15MB leaves things running *very* tight, that
> extra 1MB could be pretty useful.
>
> The only thing that I can think of is that some machines have a
"memory
> hole" option in the BIOS that occurs between 15 and 16 MB, I wonder if
> mine has that?  Problem is I cannot get into the BIOS, I've tried
> numerous function keys, escape and delete.  It's an optiplex 486/66.
> Any ideas how to get into the BIOS, or what else might be causing the
> issue?

Try Alt-F1 and Alt-F2

I think the memory hole is for SCO, no? :)) buggers... Is it possible
that
you have a bad stick of RAM?

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From matthew.tippett-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 02:49:48 2003
From: matthew.tippett-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Matthew Tippett)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:49:48 -0400
Subject: ATI Is Looking for a Linux savvy developer and QA person
Message-ID: <3F8E074C.6080407@sympatico.ca>

Hello,

Not sure if this has been posted by Matt, but I thought I would make 
sure that it does get posted, as this is probably the biggest 
collection of Linux savvy people in Toronto :).

Anyway, I am heading up the development team taking over the 
proprietary XFree86 drivers for ATI's video cards.  We are looking 
for a Linux Developer and a QA person to start as soon as possible.

The position descriptions are at

Linux Developer
	http://www.ati.com/companyinfo/careers/toronto/736.html

Linux Technologist (QA)
	http://www.ati.com/companyinfo/careers/toronto/735.html

But in short, I am looking for a Developer that has Linux and 
XFree86 experience (or at the very least graphics card programming 
experience).  I am also looking for a QA person who loves automated 
testing and isn't afraid to string together some scripting languages 
to make the test automate.

Please send questions and resume's to

	mtippett-mRltml6h8fs at public.gmane.org (cc to matthew.tippett at sympatico.ca)

I would prefer not to get into discussions about Open Source vs 
Proprietary, ATI does work closely with the DRI and XFree86 
development teams.  I have been active in the Linux Community (in 
Australia) for about 8 years, and have known Matt Rice for about 5 
of them.  ATI is a great company to work for and we need some 
talented Linux personnel really soon :).

Regards,

Matthew

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From kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 02:59:45 2003
From: kris-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg at public.gmane.org (Kristofer Coward)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 22:59:45 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <20031015212326.5684f7cc.rufmetal-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <200310151613.14891.marc@lijour.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465@ns.istop.com> <200310152120.48866.marc@lijour.net> <20031015212326.5684f7cc.rufmetal@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016025945.GK466@melon.org>

On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 09:23:26PM -0400, Chris Keelan wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:20:47 -0400
> "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
> > I may try a move to you guys. I get the modem first :)
> 
> I found a Speedtouch, sans packaging, by looking in Computer
> Shopper. I paid $120 for mine. Can't remember the vendor, but I'm sure
> the ad is still running.

I'm guessing that used Alcatels aren't going for anywhere near that
much, otherwise I think I have a spare that I'd gladly unload for that
kind of money.

Kris

-- 
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GPG Fingerprint: 2BF3 957D 310A FEEC 4733  830E 21A4 05C7 1FEB 12B3
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From glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 03:09:16 2003
From: glayng-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Gary Layng)
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:09:16 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <000001c39392$e27eb990$b151fea9@omoekane>

I should probably be asking this of the NewTLUG forum, but:
 - Mandrake 9.1, installed last week.
 - Home PC, a PIII, dual boot with XP
 - Alcatel SpeedTouch USB
 - No flippin' internet on Linux.  XP works just fine, but I'm trying to
wean myself from bugware.

System seems to be having a problem with Ethernet, and I'm completely lost
as to why.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

His Lordship Mayhem
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Ralph
Doncaster
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:25 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Wiznet

On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> Advice for a (good/well-priced) ADSL modem? (I currently rent one)
> Thanks.

The Alcatel speedtouch home is generally regarded as one of the best, but
the only way you'll find one under $100 is 2nd-hand.

The GNet(GVC) modems are not as reliable, but the warranty and support
makes up for it.

Lately we've been selling refurbished Speedstream 5260 modems and have
found them to work almost as well as the Alcatels.  I don't think you'll
find them at your local computer store though.

-Ralph

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 03:40:33 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:40:33 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <000001c39392$e27eb990$b151fea9-/gZmskUKQAo@public.gmane.org>
References: <000001c39392$e27eb990$b151fea9@omoekane>
Message-ID: <200310152340.35125.marc@lijour.net>

Le 15 Octobre 2003 23:09, Gary Layng a ?crit :
> I should probably be asking this of the NewTLUG forum, but:
>  - Mandrake 9.1, installed last week.
>  - Home PC, a PIII, dual boot with XP
>  - Alcatel SpeedTouch USB
>  - No flippin' internet on Linux.  XP works just fine, but I'm trying to
> wean myself from bugware.

ifconfig -a
to see if you have your ethernet card there (eth0), or
 dmsg | grep eth

I'd guess you need the special RPM for the ADSL modem speedtouch
Do a search for it on rpmfind.net, or contact me if you can't (you can get it 
at Mandrake club)


> System seems to be having a problem with Ethernet, and I'm completely lost
> as to why.
>
> Any suggestions would be gratefully received.
>
> His Lordship Mayhem
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Ralph
> Doncaster
> Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2003 5:25 PM
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Wiznet
>
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Advice for a (good/well-priced) ADSL modem? (I currently rent one)
> > Thanks.
>
> The Alcatel speedtouch home is generally regarded as one of the best, but
> the only way you'll find one under $100 is 2nd-hand.
>
> The GNet(GVC) modems are not as reliable, but the warranty and support
> makes up for it.
>
> Lately we've been selling refurbished Speedstream 5260 modems and have
> found them to work almost as well as the Alcatels.  I don't think you'll
> find them at your local computer store though.
>
> -Ralph
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 03:41:13 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2003 23:41:13 -0400
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <20031016025945.GK466-y6ukv7ArdSHYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net> <20031015212326.5684f7cc.rufmetal@eol.ca> <20031016025945.GK466@melon.org>
Message-ID: <200310152341.14692.marc@lijour.net>

Le 15 Octobre 2003 22:59, Kristofer Coward a ?crit :
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 09:23:26PM -0400, Chris Keelan wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 21:20:47 -0400
> >
> > "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> > > I may try a move to you guys. I get the modem first :)
> >
> > I found a Speedtouch, sans packaging, by looking in Computer
> > Shopper. I paid $120 for mine. Can't remember the vendor, but I'm sure
> > the ad is still running.
>
> I'm guessing that used Alcatels aren't going for anywhere near that
> much, otherwise I think I have a spare that I'd gladly unload for that
> kind of money.
>
> Kris

What would be a fair price?

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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 05:14:38 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:14:38 -0400
Subject: Mandrake update success
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031016011136.02852820@pop1.sympatico.ca>

What finally worked for me was to use the Software Sources Manager followed 
by the software installation app.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 05:30:50 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:30:50 -0400
Subject: list check
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131540120.15903-100000-G4iNdIupK6G7vFAssF7eVSCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310131540120.15903-100000@chimp.codemonkeys.org>
Message-ID: <3F8E2D0A.4060206@rogers.com>

> Furthermore, I think your suggestion to tune your SPAM filters is ridiculous:
> it just deals with the symptoms and leaves the real problem untackled.  Don't
> you think we should secure the server or do you really think we should just
> all implement individual filtering schemes?

Unless I'm completely out of touch, none of us are paying for our 
subscriptions to TLUG.

Of course I appreciate well configured mail/majordomo servers and would 
like to see no spam (mind you I haven't seen any anyways), but whoever 
actually hosts/runs the list for us could tell us to 'piss up a 
flagpole' and we'd have no choice but to deal with it or unsubscribe.

I find the suggestion to tune our own spam filters eminently reasonable.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 05:37:10 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:37:10 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <200310151027.21015.ssadams-cO7Vpxpd/wCZ9vWoFJJngh2eb7JE58TQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com> <200310151027.21015.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F8E2E86.7090800@rogers.com>

> also all the files are in WMP format :(
> Quote From Site "All of our music files are in Windows Media format, so you 
> will need to download Windows Media Player"

Ah... that is where the crossover plugin from codeweavers 
(www.codeweavers.com ?) comes in handy. I liked the demo enough to buy 
it outright. Nice folks doing a good job.

'Course you could always go straight to the source and fiddle with Wine 
to take care of the issue, but the crossover interface and setup saves a 
billion headaches.

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 05:37:32 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 01:37:32 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310152312190.874-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000@tosh5100.net> <20031015203524.GA513@node1.opengeometry.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310152312190.874@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031016053732.GA482@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 11:13:17PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:
> 
> > Well, it's business, right.  They want to differentiate their product
> > from their competitor, and hopefully lock-in their customers.  Netscape
> > is/was doing that, IBM is/was doing that, Redhat is/was doing that,
> > GM is/was doing that.  Your point is?
> 
> The point would be that they have so many bugs the integer space is not
> enough to describe them so they had to add decimals ?

Hee, heh...  :-)  Microsoft produces no bugs... just untold number of
features to help untold number of "IT professionals" to keep their jobs.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 06:50:32 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:50:32 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
Message-ID: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>


Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
e-mails *constantly*?

I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
various sources and lists. 

I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life can be so tragic -- you're here today and here tomorrow.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 13 20:41:20 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 16:41:20 -0400
Subject: How to start a revolution?
In-Reply-To: <20031013154112.02a3ddb6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <49855.65.95.66.181.1065738858.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
	<3F87343C.1060501@rogers.com>
	<50786.65.95.66.181.1065916274.squirrel@www.communitybandwidth.ca>
	<3F8AFF56.8090009@rogers.com>
	<20031013154112.02a3ddb6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031013164120.777a5536.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 15:41:12 -0400
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> The recent Samba 3 release might be the easiest method, it provides
> all of the functionality of a Windows 2000 domain controller, and
> according to reports, does it better too.

Should mention as well, it's really easy to admin through a web
interface like Webmin or SWAT, does file sharing, domain logon, all the
bells and whistles.

http://www.vnunet.com/News/1144289

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are no winners in life, only survivors.
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 07:36:18 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:36:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310160335200.1045@xword.rogers.com>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

>
> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> e-mails *constantly*?
>
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists.

   I've noticed duplicate, perhaps even triplicate, copies of messages
   on this list in the last day or three.

> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.

    ....and I'm not on Sympatico.

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 07:52:30 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:52:30 -0400
Subject: port 4662 ?
Message-ID: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net>

What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.

While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 07:49:48 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:49:48 -0400
Subject: port 4662 ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016075230.GA778-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031016034948.77ff31dc.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:52:30 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.

That's MLDonkey, probably. A P2P app.
 
> While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
> so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can no more win a war than you can win an earthquake.
		-- Jeannette Rankin
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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 07:59:01 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 03:59:01 -0400
Subject: port 4662 ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016075230.GA778-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031016075901.GA26427@anarchy.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 03:52:30AM -0400, William Park wrote:
> What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.

http://www.seifried.org/security/ports/4000/4662.html

Peer to peer crap. Ignore it.

> While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
> so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?

Google. Neohapsis also has a good list that includes just about everything
including which backdoors and viruses use particular ports.

-cgm.
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 08:19:14 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 04:19:14 -0400
Subject: port 4662 ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016075901.GA26427-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031016075901.GA26427@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016081914.GA843@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 03:59:01AM -0400, Chris MacDonald wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 03:52:30AM -0400, William Park wrote:
> > What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.
> 
> http://www.seifried.org/security/ports/4000/4662.html
> 
> Peer to peer crap. Ignore it.

Bookmarked.  Thanks.

> 
> > While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
> > so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?
> 
> Google. Neohapsis also has a good list that includes just about everything
> including which backdoors and viruses use particular ports.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 10:56:37 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 06:56:37 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8E7965.1050508@rogers.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> e-mails *constantly*?
> 
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists. 
> 
> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.
> 

I haven't seen dupes on Rogers, except one message from a friend on 
Sympatico.


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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 11:33:29 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:33:29 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031015203524.GA513-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310151612310.4468-100000@tosh5100.net>
	 <20031015203524.GA513@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1066304009.469.13.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 16:35, William Park wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 04:17:25PM -0400, Teodor Iliescu wrote:
> > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> > 
> > > HTTP 403.9 - Access Forbidden: Too many users are connected
> > > Internet Information Services
> > 
> > I guess Microsoft doesn't know what an integer means.
> > The RFC for HTTP error codes describe using only integers, such as 404, 
> > 401, 403, 500, and so forth. It does not mention anything about decimals.
> > 
> > Source:
> > http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec10.html
> > 
> > I have seen only this behaviour on Microsoft IIS servers.
> 
> Well, it's business, right.  They want to differentiate their product
> from their competitor, and hopefully lock-in their customers.  Netscape
> is/was doing that, IBM is/was doing that, Redhat is/was doing that,
> GM is/was doing that.  Your point is?

Wow William, it seems lately that you have been argumentative for the
sake of it.

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 12:00:51 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:00:51 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1066305651.467.25.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 17:37, E K wrote:

> Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are planing
> to switch over to a different service provider. 
Huh, which provider are you currently with?

> I just came across the Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of.
> Does any one have any experience with them? 
Huh, there was a thread regarding Wiznet from 10/13 with msgs up to and
including yesterday.
http://search.gmane.org/search.php?query=wiznet&email=&group=tlug

> Which high speed provider is the best in Toronto?
Huh, this is one of the favorite topics on this list.


:-D
Lloyd

PS. Please post in plain text instead of HTML.

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From jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 12:09:36 2003
From: jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org (Jeremy Baker)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:09:36 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8E8A80.2070603@muskokatech.ca>

I was getting them.  I just switched to another provider and haven't 
noticed any more yet.

Jeremy Baker

JoeHill wrote:

>Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
>e-mails *constantly*?
>
>I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
>various sources and lists. 
>
>I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.
>
>  
>


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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 12:23:36 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:23:36 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <3F8D95B3.4080703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1066307016.467.47.camel@localhost>

On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 14:45, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> I'm thinking about setting up CVS in my office to handle versioning of 
> documents etc- i've got a number of Windows XP machines for general use 
> and Linux boxes for development etc.
>
> I used SourceSafe at my last job and know the use/power of something 
> like CVS for version control etc. 
I suggest taking a serious look at subversion as an alternative to CVS.

> I'll set up a wiki for office use also.
There are so many flavors, but they all seem to taste the same.  I have
been playing with a few wiki implementations, but it is too soon to form
an opinion.  


> I also need to set up something for a central control of contacts, 
> appointments, tasks etc- that both my windows and linux machines can use
I have no exerience with "groupware", but I have seen good comments
regarding:
www.tutos.org
phpcollab.sourceforge.net/
www.phprojekt.com/
www.convea.com/
moregroupware.sourceforge.net

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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 12:42:48 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:42:48 -0400
Subject: port 4662 ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016075230.GA778-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1066308168.5780.0.camel@linux.local>

E-donkey2000 and the Overnet network use ports 4661, 4662 for
client/server connections.

On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 03:52, William Park wrote:
> What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.
> 
> While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
> so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                           jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 12:55:09 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:55:09 -0400
Subject: extreme CPU usage on CDROM or DVD
Message-ID: <1066308909.5658.12.camel@linux.local>

I am running Suse8.2 Pro. Whenever I use the cdrom or the dvd, my cpu
usage rockets up to 99% and stays there until it is done. This happens
on writing cd's, transfering data from disk to HD, reading DVD's,
ripping MP3's etc.

The CD writer is mounted using SCSI emulation, while the DVD is not. (
default for some reason on suse 8.2  - which I am currently looking on
gooogle to howto correct)

System:

MSI K7N2 Delta - ILSR
Nforce2 Chipset - using current drivers
AthlonXP 2800 Barton CPU
1 Gig DDR400 dual channel ram

memory is not the issue, neither is cpu. I have not seen this behaviour
before. I have had MDK9.1 on this system with no problems.

Any ideas?

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                           jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 13:44:29 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:44:29 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <3F8E2E86.7090800-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310150936010.21386@ns.istop.com> <200310151027.21015.ssadams@ssadams.dyndns.org> <3F8E2E86.7090800@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031016134429.GA20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 01:37:10AM -0400, Byron Sonne wrote:
> >also all the files are in WMP format :(
> >Quote From Site "All of our music files are in Windows Media format, so 
> >you will need to download Windows Media Player"
> 
> Ah... that is where the crossover plugin from codeweavers 
> (www.codeweavers.com ?) comes in handy. I liked the demo enough to buy 
> it outright. Nice folks doing a good job.
> 
> 'Course you could always go straight to the source and fiddle with Wine 
> to take care of the issue, but the crossover interface and setup saves a 
> billion headaches.

mplayer with win32 codecs seems like a nicer solution to me.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 13:46:24 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:46:24 -0400
Subject: extreme CPU usage on CDROM or DVD
In-Reply-To: <1066308909.5658.12.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1066308909.5658.12.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <20031016134624.GB20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 08:55:09AM -0400, Jason Shein wrote:
> I am running Suse8.2 Pro. Whenever I use the cdrom or the dvd, my cpu
> usage rockets up to 99% and stays there until it is done. This happens
> on writing cd's, transfering data from disk to HD, reading DVD's,
> ripping MP3's etc.
> 
> The CD writer is mounted using SCSI emulation, while the DVD is not. (
> default for some reason on suse 8.2  - which I am currently looking on
> gooogle to howto correct)
> 
> System:
> 
> MSI K7N2 Delta - ILSR
> Nforce2 Chipset - using current drivers
> AthlonXP 2800 Barton CPU
> 1 Gig DDR400 dual channel ram
> 
> memory is not the issue, neither is cpu. I have not seen this behaviour
> before. I have had MDK9.1 on this system with no problems.
> 
> Any ideas?

Are the drives using DMA or PIO?  Check /proc/ide/hd?/settings

Without DMA it will use a lot of cpu.

Use hdparm -d 1 /dev/hd? to enable DMA on a drive.  On most systems with
most drives it works great.  On a few systems it will crash the system,
or make the drive stop working.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 13:48:19 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:48:19 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <3F8D95B3.4080703-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031016134815.GC20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 02:45:07PM -0400, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> I'm thinking about setting up CVS in my office to handle versioning of 
> documents etc- i've got a number of Windows XP machines for general use 
> and Linux boxes for development etc.
> 
> I used SourceSafe at my last job and know the use/power of something 
> like CVS for version control etc. I'll set up a wiki for office use also.
> 
> I also need to set up something for a central control of contacts, 
> appointments, tasks etc- that both my windows and linux machines can use
> 
> I need some advice on setting these up on my linux server (p4 2.8 Ghz, 
> 1GB ram, 360GB storage, red hat 9.0)

Just remember CVS is not very nice for binary files (which word documens
may count as), and subversion may or may not be close enough to done for
you to consider, although there are some really nice tools for Windows
around to talk to subversion.

Lennart Sorensen
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From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 13:50:27 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:50:27 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
Message-ID: <LAW14-F6dhQYZkxOjmf0000c183@hotmail.com>

I've been getting mail duplicates as well. I'm using Futureway as a 
provider, but I'm not sure the problem isn't from the other end. Ie., it 
seems like I only get duplicates from certain addresses/certain providers.



-Hugh
_______________________________________________
Hugh Reilly
XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab
600 Bay Street, Suite 405
Toronto ON  M5R 1G6
tel: 416-204-9951
fax: 416-204-9723
email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
_______________________________________________
http://www.xen.ca  |  http://www.linuxlab.ca





>From: Jeremy Baker <jab-76OBl6+JcyzDN57Tih+YPw at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Mail Dupes?
>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:09:36 -0400
>
>I was getting them.  I just switched to another provider and haven't 
>noticed any more yet.
>
>Jeremy Baker
>
>JoeHill wrote:
>
>>Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
>>e-mails *constantly*?
>>
>>I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
>>various sources and lists.
>>
>>I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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_________________________________________________________________
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 13:50:51 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:50:51 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <200310150815.40677.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net> <20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031016135051.GD20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Oct 15, 2003 at 08:15:39AM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> Le 15 Octobre 2003 07:44, Austin Acton a ?crit :
> > On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 04:35, JoeHill wrote:
> > > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
> > >
> > > "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > > > You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)
> > >
> > > Isn't that only for Club members?
> >
> > Yes, bittorrent access is supposed to be for club members only (although
> > I'm sure someone will leak the torrents eventually).  This is for the
> > ISO's only, and they will be posted publicly in two weeks.
> 
> The logic of bittorrent isn't it that the more we share the faster it goes?

It still has to transfer it all, and many people may have bandwitdh
quotas that limit sending.

I bet downloading it once, and burning cd copies for your friends or
lending the CD is faster. :)

But what do I know, Debian considers CD distribution inefficient in
general.

Lennart Sorensen
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From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 13:55:03 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:55:03 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
Message-ID: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>

>From: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: pure microshit
>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 07:33:29 -0400

>Wow William, it seems lately that you have been argumentative for the
>sake of it.

Yes, William, why don't you come downtown sometime and we'll give you a big 
hug!!

-Hugh

>
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 13:53:52 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 09:53:52 -0400
Subject: port 4662 ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016075230.GA778-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031016135352.GE20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 03:52:30AM -0400, William Park wrote:
> What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.
> 
> While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
> so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?

The ed2k (EDonkey 2000) P2P filesharing system tends to default to that
port as far as I know.

Lennart Sorensen
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 14:19:47 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 10:19:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310160335200.1045-X2Nm6m5nHw9APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310160335200.1045@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031016101731.10078B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
>    I've noticed duplicate, perhaps even triplicate, copies of messages
>    on this list in the last day or three.
>     ....and I'm not on Sympatico.

I've seen multiples as well, and I'm directly on the Internet (no "helpful"
intervening servers).  Haven't saved copies, alas, but I did take a glance
at the headers at one point, and saw nothing obviously amiss.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 15:11:17 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 11:11:17 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <20031016134815.GC20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com>
	 <20031016134815.GC20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <1066317076.469.58.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 09:48, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> subversion may or may not be close enough to done for
> you to consider, although there are some really nice tools for Windows
> around to talk to subversion.

Lennart, are there specific aspects of subversion that are making it not
close enough to done for you to consider?



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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:00:21 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:00:21 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <1066317076.469.58.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com> <20031016134815.GC20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1066317076.469.58.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031016160021.GF20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:11:17AM -0400, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 09:48, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
> > subversion may or may not be close enough to done for
> > you to consider, although there are some really nice tools for Windows
> > around to talk to subversion.
> 
> Lennart, are there specific aspects of subversion that are making it not
> close enough to done for you to consider?

I have it installed, and I am playing with it.  If there was a nice way
to dump a CVS repository into it with history I would probably just
switch.  It does look pretty darn good.  I just don't feel good
recomending a 0.31 release to someone without some warnings.

Lennart Sorensen
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:22:47 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:22:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1445.216.138.194.32.1066321367.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> e-mails *constantly*?
>
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists.
>
> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.

I'm using dsl.ca (wiznet) and getting some duplicates but they all seem to
be only from this list. I haven't noticed any from gta-bug (local) or any
of the sourceforge or other linux distro lists I'm on. I suspect that the
issue might be on the ss.org server.

-- 
Keith
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From awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:48:29 2003
From: awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org (Drew Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:48:29 -0400
Subject: Favourites to bookmark.htm
In-Reply-To: <3F6F8AA9.286DFD94-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F6F8AA9.286DFD94@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031016164829.GA15776%awh@awh.org>

On Mon, Sep 22, 2003 at 07:50:02PM -0400, Chris Aitken wrote:
> Does anyone know how to save import Windows Favourites into linux
> Netscape? A google search returned some peripherally--related material,
> but nothing to go from Windows to linux. The other way around is easy,
> as is from Netscape in Windows to Netscape in linux. Trying to simply
> save the Favourites folder as a bookmark.htm renders it useless.

Curiously enough I just had to do this this morning.

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Lakes/6520/ieconverter.html

This program will save the Windows favourites as an HTML file in Netscape's
bookmarks.html format.

 - awh

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:42:23 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:42:23 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <1445.216.138.194.32.1066321367.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1445.216.138.194.32.1066321367.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016124223.6a492c9c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:22:47 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I'm using dsl.ca (wiznet) and getting some duplicates but they all
> seem to be only from this list. I haven't noticed any from gta-bug
> (local) or any of the sourceforge or other linux distro lists I'm on.
> I suspect that the issue might be on the ss.org server.

I'm getting dupes from a few different places, but ya, in particular the
TLUG list, sometimes four or five of the same on this one, even days
apart like I say.

I suspect I'm experiencing a nice combo of Sympatico problems
(redundant phrase, that) and TLUG list probs.

Not a huge issue, but annoying nonetheless.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
That, that is, is.
That, that is not, is not.
That, that is, is not that, that is not.
That, that is not, is not that, that is.
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:29:27 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:29:27 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161828210.560@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

>
> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> e-mails *constantly*?
>
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists.
>
> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.

It is not Sympatico. I am getting doubles too. It looks like a mail server
crashed or was unavailable for some time and its mail queue was backed up
and reinjected. I will try to look harder at the headers for clues. Until
now hitting del was easiest.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:23:16 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:23:16 +0200 (IST)
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <3F8DC2B3.7040508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151958130.630@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F8DC2B3.7040508@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161822480.560@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 15 Oct 2003, James Knott wrote:

> Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > Try tapping F1 repeatedly while you boot ? Or hold a key down (any key)
> > and reboot. This should stop the boot process and ask about the stuck
> > keyboard, maybe with an option to edit the bios (could be F1 to continue
> > F2 to edit).
>
> Keyboard not found.  Press any key to continue.  ;-)

Ah. How clever.

sorry,

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:31:26 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:31:26 +0200 (IST)
Subject: port 4662 ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016075230.GA778-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161830340.560@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.
>
> While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
> so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?

Search for a file called neo-ports.html . I got this link from this list
some time ago. The file says it's used by something called eDonkey2000
Server. Not likely to be that.

Peter
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:55:39 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:55:39 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1566.216.138.194.32.1066323339.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are planing to
> switch over to a different service provider. I just came across the
> Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one have any
> experience with them? Which high speed provider is the best in Toronto?

...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.

ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's important to
you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that sympatico
provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link to the 'net? Do
you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the same peer (great for
daily backups). Do you want to run servers? Is it a commercial or res
account?

Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just good
techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's only
been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get to speak to a
live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.

As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point, but they
may be improving things. Only time will tell.

I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's my
thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably pretty
much confident in the level of service his company provides.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 16:57:58 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 12:57:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: How do I get into BIOS of old Dell system?
In-Reply-To: <3F8DC2B3.7040508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310142210.34136.fraser@wehave.net>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151958130.630@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
    <3F8DC2B3.7040508@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1579.216.138.194.32.1066323478.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


>> Try tapping F1 repeatedly while you boot ? Or hold a key down (any key)
>> and reboot. This should stop the boot process and ask about the stuck
>> keyboard, maybe with an option to edit the bios (could be F1 to continue
>> F2 to edit).
>
> Keyboard not found.  Press any key to continue.  ;-)

That's the error you're looking for. Hit the F2 key.

-- 
Keith
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 17:02:19 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 13:02:19 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131513.02353.marc@lijour.net>
    <20031014010003.GC466@melon.org><Pine.LNX.4.58.0310132124520.9110@ns.istop.com>
    <200310151613.14891.marc@lijour.net>
    <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310151718430.19465@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <1593.216.138.194.32.1066323739.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


>> Advice for a (good/well-priced) ADSL modem? (I currently rent one)
>> Thanks.
>
> The Alcatel speedtouch home is generally regarded as one of the best, but
> the only way you'll find one under $100 is 2nd-hand.
>
> The GNet(GVC) modems are not as reliable, but the warranty and support
> makes up for it.
>
> Lately we've been selling refurbished Speedstream 5260 modems and have
> found them to work almost as well as the Alcatels.  I don't think you'll
> find them at your local computer store though.

I took an OvisLink from dsl.ca when I moved. Won't make that mistake
twice. An Alcatel Speedtouch is your best bet. Spend the $$ if you can get
your hands on one. You might be poorer for it, but you won't feel ripped
off.

-- 
Keith
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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 18:06:28 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:06:28 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <1066317076.469.58.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com>	 <20031016134815.GC20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <1066317076.469.58.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F8EDE24.4030207@codemonkeys.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 16/10/2003 11:11, Lloyd D Budd wrote:

| Lennart, are there specific aspects of subversion that are making it not
| close enough to done for you to consider?

I admin a rather large and complex CVS repository at work and thus am more
eager than most to find a replacement.  I'm following the development of
subversion closely because of the great improvements ir brings over CVS
(atomic transactions, WebDAV, renaming, proper handling of directories,
improved branching and merging, etc.) and I can honestly say that it's far
from the state where it can be recommended for use in production.

Subversion the protocol is not stabilized as yet, not to mention client and
server bits.  At one point I was thinking of writing an Eclipse plugin for it
so I got in touch with core developers with some questions because I wanted,
among other things, to provide a pure Java implementation of the protocol
itself before starting to build the visual components.  I was told it's far
too fast a moving target and they recommended I wrap the native implementation
because I would be unable to keep up with the changes.

~From their FAQ (http://subversion.tigris.org/project_faq.html#stable):

"WARNING: while Subversion is definitely reliable, the API and protocols still
change from release to release, so it would be wrong to say it is stable.
That's why it's still Alpha sofware. This means that if you depend on
Subversion, you should not be using whatever binary packages ship in your
distribution, they are most likely months old, and will no longer interoperate
with modern clients or servers."

If that's not reason enough not to recommend it for regular office use, I
don't know what is.  Subversion's got great potential so get the latest code,
try it out, get a feel for it, but by no means should you go ahead and
implement it for daily use in production environment.
- --
Emir.

"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us:
~ 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'"         -- Fyodor Dostoevsky
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Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/jt4kuSy542G+Z7QRAq9SAKChRchYGlsyFkOe3V7jgk6AxJ6EnACeIyzR
WTf7+5k0gHq7h9C54ZSMfo4=
=G5We
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 18:12:30 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:12:30 +0200 (IST)
Subject: And another antitrust action consequence ...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162012060.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33365.html

Peter
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 18:13:39 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:13:39 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161828210.560-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161828210.560@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031016141339.25d18c3c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:29:27 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> It is not Sympatico. I am getting doubles too. It looks like a mail
> server crashed or was unavailable for some time and its mail queue was
> backed up and reinjected. I will try to look harder at the headers for
> clues. Until now hitting del was easiest.

The strange thing is though, it's not just mail from this list, it's
from other lists as well.

Some from Freelists.org, and others from the Mandrake Expert and Newbie
lists.

Like you say, though, the Del key isn't too tough to use ;-)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remember, Grasshopper, falling down 1000 stairs begins by tripping over
the first one.
		-- Confusion
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 18:35:11 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 14:35:11 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <20031016160021.GF20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com> <1066317076.469.58.camel@localhost> <20031016160021.GF20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <200310161435.11228.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 16 October 2003 12:00, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> > Lennart, are there specific aspects of subversion that are making it not
> > close enough to done for you to consider?
>
> I have it installed, and I am playing with it.  If there was a nice way
> to dump a CVS repository into it with history I would probably just
> switch.  It does look pretty darn good.  I just don't feel good
> recomending a 0.31 release to someone without some warnings.

I've been using it for a few months, most of the checkins are websites (HTML, 
JPG, GIF, etc.  On large directories subversion would choke and die very 
easily (server timeouts, up to version 0.26) recently (since version 0.29) 
things seem to have improved but perhaps I just haven't been testing it as 
heavily.

Now I have a few directories that are in a half checked-in state, haven't 
figured out yet how to recover from that.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 19:13:25 2003
From: anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (Anthony Tekatch)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:13:25 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016151325.48df5f2d.anthony@unihedron.com>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:50:32 -0400, JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> e-mails *constantly*?
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists. 
> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.

I have to send mail through Sympatico and their server does not always
complete the transaction so I cancel after a few minutes waiting for the
message to be sent. Sometimes the message goes through without me
realizing and I try to resend it which results in a duplicate being sent.
This problem with Sympatico started recently and seems worse in the
evenings.

-- 
Anthony
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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 19:15:31 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:15:31 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <200310161435.11228.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com> <1066317076.469.58.camel@localhost> <20031016160021.GF20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <200310161435.11228.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F8EEE53.6000307@rogers.com>

as far as the wiki/contacts stuff i've chosen egroupware from
www.egroupware.org-- this is simply amazing

i'll start playing with subversion etc. this weekend.

Kerry


Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Thursday 16 October 2003 12:00, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Lennart, are there specific aspects of subversion that are making it not
>>>close enough to done for you to consider?
>>
>>I have it installed, and I am playing with it.  If there was a nice way
>>to dump a CVS repository into it with history I would probably just
>>switch.  It does look pretty darn good.  I just don't feel good
>>recomending a 0.31 release to someone without some warnings.
> 
> 
> I've been using it for a few months, most of the checkins are websites (HTML, 
> JPG, GIF, etc.  On large directories subversion would choke and die very 
> easily (server timeouts, up to version 0.26) recently (since version 0.29) 
> things seem to have improved but perhaps I just haven't been testing it as 
> heavily.
> 
> Now I have a few directories that are in a half checked-in state, haven't 
> figured out yet how to recover from that.
> 



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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 19:20:28 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:20:28 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A932E@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I don't know what is happening to Sympatico, but I have several customers who have to use the Sympatico SMTP server to send mail. (Sympatico blocks port 25 to outside servers) 

I am getting tons of calls because mail is not being sent and queue's are building up.

2 customers are already switching ISP's because of this. 

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Anthony Tekatch [mailto:anthony-e6QRBlwUI3iaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 3:13 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Mail Dupes?

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 02:50:32 -0400, JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> e-mails *constantly*?
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists. 
> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.

I have to send mail through Sympatico and their server does not always
complete the transaction so I cancel after a few minutes waiting for the
message to be sent. Sometimes the message goes through without me
realizing and I try to resend it which results in a duplicate being sent.
This problem with Sympatico started recently and seems worse in the
evenings.

-- 
Anthony
--
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From dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 19:34:14 2003
From: dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Luke Hickson)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:34:14 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
References: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342@hotmail.com> <1566.216.138.194.32.1066323339.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <LAW11-OE13dRGy9tCx1000009f5@hotmail.com>

Just my two cents.

I found that same experience with wiznet - actually DSL.ca went bankrupt and Wiznet bought up the assets. This was told to me directly by an employee of wiznet. Their service is degrading and has since the takeover. (disconnections, poor customer service). 

That's why I am switching to http://www.1staccess.ca  $ 26.99 for 1.5M service + $4 for static ip. And they allow you to run servers. 

Cheers, Luke Hickson


  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Keith Mastin 
  To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
  Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:55 PM
  Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet



  > Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are planing to
  > switch over to a different service provider. I just came across the
  > Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one have any
  > experience with them? Which high speed provider is the best in Toronto?

  ...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.

  ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's important to
  you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that sympatico
  provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link to the 'net? Do
  you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the same peer (great for
  daily backups). Do you want to run servers? Is it a commercial or res
  account?

  Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just good
  techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
  bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
  technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's only
  been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get to speak to a
  live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.

  As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point, but they
  may be improving things. Only time will tell.

  I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's my
  thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably pretty
  much confident in the level of service his company provides.

  -- 
  Keith Mastin
  BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
  Toronto, Canada
  (416)429 9304
  --
  The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 19:43:11 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:43:11 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <LAW11-OE13dRGy9tCx1000009f5-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342@hotmail.com> <1566.216.138.194.32.1066323339.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <LAW11-OE13dRGy9tCx1000009f5@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200310161543.12949.marc@lijour.net>

Le 16 Octobre 2003 15:34, Luke Hickson a ?crit :
> Just my two cents.
>
> I found that same experience with wiznet - actually DSL.ca went bankrupt
> and Wiznet bought up the assets. This was told to me directly by an
> employee of wiznet. Their service is degrading and has since the takeover.
> (disconnections, poor customer service).
>
> That's why I am switching to http://www.1staccess.ca  $ 26.99 for 1.5M
> service + $4 for static ip. And they allow you to run servers.
>
> Cheers, Luke Hickson
>

istop.com is not better priced, but not far: 
<http://www.istop.com/residential.html>

I heard goods comments from my students, plus Ralph being on the list is 
definitely a plus.



>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Keith Mastin
>   To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>   Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
>
>   > Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are planing
>   > to switch over to a different service provider. I just came across the
>   > Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one have any
>   > experience with them? Which high speed provider is the best in Toronto?
>
>   ...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.
>
>   ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's important to
>   you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that sympatico
>   provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link to the 'net? Do
>   you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the same peer (great for
>   daily backups). Do you want to run servers? Is it a commercial or res
>   account?
>
>   Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just good
>   techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
>   bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
>   technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's only
>   been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get to speak to
> a live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.
>
>   As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point, but they
>   may be improving things. Only time will tell.
>
>   I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's my
>   thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably pretty
>   much confident in the level of service his company provides.
>
>   --
>   Keith Mastin
>   BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
>   Toronto, Canada
>   (416)429 9304
>   --
>   The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>   TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>   How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 19:46:41 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:46:41 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <1566.216.138.194.32.1066323339.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F17xrMDVJgv7R00004342@hotmail.com> <1566.216.138.194.32.1066323339.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <200310161546.43048.marc@lijour.net>

Le 16 Octobre 2003 12:55, Keith Mastin a ?crit :
> > Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are planing to
> > switch over to a different service provider. I just came across the
> > Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one have any
> > experience with them? Which high speed provider is the best in Toronto?
>
> ...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.
>
> ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's important to
> you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that sympatico
> provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link to the 'net? Do
> you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the same peer (great for
> daily backups). Do you want to run servers? Is it a commercial or res
> account?

I'm residencial and I don't need news or webmail. I don't eat a lot of 
bandwith, except occasionnaly for my favorite distros :-)

However, I rely on my web stuff daily. I use always-on idea. Didn't know about 
deals for transfer to the same peer, good trick.

> Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just good
> techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
> bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
> technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's only
> been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get to speak to a
> live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.
>
> As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point, but they
> may be improving things. Only time will tell.
>
> I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's my
> thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably pretty
> much confident in the level of service his company provides.

I've got a good feeling too. 

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 20:07:48 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:07:48 +0200 (IST)
Subject: A model of IP and patent sharing from commercial entities to produce
 free and open standards
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


http://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/
http://www.w3.org/2001/ppwg/

look who's missing from the member list (mmi link).

Peter
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 20:23:10 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:23:10 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A932E-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A932E@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <20031016162310.58903326.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:20:28 -0400
"Wil McGilvery" <wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I don't know what is happening to Sympatico, but I have several
> customers who have to use the Sympatico SMTP server to send mail.
> (Sympatico blocks port 25 to outside servers) 
> 
> I am getting tons of calls because mail is not being sent and queue's
> are building up.

That's another thing, as I've mentioned before, it's taking waaaay too
long sometimes to send an e-mail, and some of the mail never makes it to
the destination. I know I've posted stuff here before and never seen it
show up at all.

> 2 customers are already switching ISP's because of this.

I'm really not far behind them I think. We get the 2MB DSL for 30 bucks,
which ain't bad, but "no servers" and the e-mail snafu's are starting to
make it less and less attractive, esp when Ralph's service, IIRC, is
about 35 bucks and I can run servers.

We shall see...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A man said to the Universe:
	"Sir, I exist!"
	"However," replied the Universe,
	"the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."
		-- Stephen Crane
--
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 20:36:59 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:59 -0400
Subject: Wireless Security
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9331@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

There was a thread about wireless security a while back.

Here is an interesting article regarding that subject.

http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/wireless/excerpt/wirlsshacks_chap1/index.html


Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com



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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 20:36:19 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:19 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:55:03AM -0400, Hugh Reilly wrote:
> >From: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
> >
> >Wow William, it seems lately that you have been argumentative for the
> >sake of it.
> 
> Yes, William, why don't you come downtown sometime and we'll give you
> a big hug!!

I'm tired of these commie trolls bitching about Microsoft, IBM, SCO,
etc.  I wish they would, instead, invest their energy and time in coming
up with viable business plans for Linux market.  We should, at least,
acknowledge Bill Gates' marketing prowsess, because he went up against
IBM (very big in those days) and won.  He single-handedly created IT
market.  Look at all those mindless trolls, screaming for Linux products
that look/feel/sound like Windows, MS-Office, and MS-Word.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 20:28:23 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:28:23 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A932E-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A932E@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <20031016162823.7352ff59.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:20:28 -0400
"Wil McGilvery" <wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I don't know what is happening to Sympatico, but I have several
> customers who have to use the Sympatico SMTP server to send mail.
> (Sympatico blocks port 25 to outside servers) 
> 
> I am getting tons of calls because mail is not being sent and queue's
> are building up.

That's another thing, as I've mentioned before, it's taking waaaay too
long sometimes to send an e-mail, and some of the mail never makes it to
the destination. I know I've posted stuff here before and never seen it
show up at all.

> 2 customers are already switching ISP's because of this.

I'm really not far behind them I think. We get the 2MB DSL for 30 bucks,
which ain't bad, but "no servers" and the e-mail snafu's are starting to
make it less and less attractive, esp when Ralph's service, IIRC, is
about 35 bucks and I can run servers.

We shall see...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A man said to the Universe:
	"Sir, I exist!"
	"However," replied the Universe,
	"the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."
		-- Stephen Crane
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 20:28:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:28:15 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A932E-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A932E@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <20031016162815.0685c030.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:20:28 -0400
"Wil McGilvery" <wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I don't know what is happening to Sympatico, but I have several
> customers who have to use the Sympatico SMTP server to send mail.
> (Sympatico blocks port 25 to outside servers) 
> 
> I am getting tons of calls because mail is not being sent and queue's
> are building up.

That's another thing, as I've mentioned before, it's taking waaaay too
long sometimes to send an e-mail, and some of the mail never makes it to
the destination. I know I've posted stuff here before and never seen it
show up at all.

> 2 customers are already switching ISP's because of this.

I'm really not far behind them I think. We get the 2MB DSL for 30 bucks,
which ain't bad, but "no servers" and the e-mail snafu's are starting to
make it less and less attractive, esp when Ralph's service, IIRC, is
about 35 bucks and I can run servers.

We shall see...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A man said to the Universe:
	"Sir, I exist!"
	"However," replied the Universe,
	"the fact has not created in me a sense of obligation."
		-- Stephen Crane
--
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 21:10:17 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 16 Oct 2003 17:10:17 -0400
Subject: A model of IP and patent sharing from commercial entities to produce free and open standards
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <lvoewg28jq.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> writes:
> http://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/
> http://www.w3.org/2001/ppwg/
> 
> look who's missing from the member list (mmi link).

I'm not on the list.  Can you give us a hint?  Do you mean SCO?  Compared to
the players on the list that I recognize, SCO would be too insignificant to
even invite to the party.
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 21:14:02 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:14:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031016162823.7352ff59.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016162823.7352ff59.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031016165253.13834I-100000@spsystems.net>

The duplicates problem looks like it's with mail *originating* on Sympatico, 
rather than mail delivery *to* Sympatico users.

I got three copies of JoeHill's latest in fast succession, so a close look
at the headers is now possible.  The real killer is that the three copies
have three separate message IDs, and *those* are pretty clearly being
assigned before the messages ever get to TLUG: 

Message-Id: <20031016162815.0685c030.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
Message-Id: <20031016162310.58903326.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
Message-Id: <20031016162823.7352ff59.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>

The dates embedded in those IDs match the ones in the Date headers, and
don't match the lethe.ss.org timestamps (which are different in order as
well as in absolute value).

Moreover, the Received headers with the earliest lethe timestamps, which
*presumably* indicate when the messages arrived at lethe -- "presumably"
because lethe isn't putting quite as much information in the Received
headers as it really should -- show different processing IDs, implying
three separate arrivals. 

Unless JoeHill's own machine is assigning those message IDs -- which seems
unlikely -- I think this stuttering is somewhere in Sympatico's outbound-
mail processing.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org





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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 21:36:18 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:36:18 -0400
Subject: A model of IP and patent sharing from commercial entities to produce free and open standards
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031016213618.GG20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 10:07:48PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> http://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/
> http://www.w3.org/2001/ppwg/
> 
> look who's missing from the member list (mmi link).

Who?  Apache?  Could be many organizations.  Perhaps money is required
to join.  Who knows.

Lennart Sorensen
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 21:37:43 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:37:43 +0200 (IST)
Subject: dupped messages
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162328440.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Actually tripled. This one from Joe Hill. Partial headers follow fyi:

1st:
Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
        id 01E6C6D372; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
2nd:
Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
        id E48B973E7; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
3rd:
Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
        id DD6FD6D384; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:11 -0400 (EDT)

The rest of the message is identical. lethe.ss.org is the input of the
list system so lethe cannot be at fault. Something or someone is echoing
mail in triplicate on the internet.

I do not understand how a message sent by tcp/ip can be triplicated. lethe
cleverly hides the sender ip so it is not possible to make it out.

Peter
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 21:54:28 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:54:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031016203619.GA334-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
 <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161753070.2728@ns.istop.com>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> I'm tired of these commie trolls bitching about Microsoft, IBM, SCO,

I started the thread.  I've been called a lot of things before, but never
a commie.  Quite amusing...

-Ralph

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From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 21:58:50 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:58:50 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
Message-ID: <Law14-F29LuSbh29cM30000d060@hotmail.com>

> > Yes, William, why don't you come downtown sometime and we'll give you
> > a big hug!!
>
>I'm tired of these commie trolls bitching about Microsoft, IBM, SCO,
>etc.  I wish they would, instead, invest their energy and time in coming
>up with viable business plans for Linux market.  We should, at least,
>acknowledge Bill Gates' marketing prowsess, because he went up against
>IBM (very big in those days) and won.  He single-handedly created IT
>market.  Look at all those mindless trolls, screaming for Linux products
>that look/feel/sound like Windows, MS-Office, and MS-Word.

William,
Very good point. Please remind me not to make it a "group" hug though.

-Hugh :)

>William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
>Linux solution for data management and processing.
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:08:25 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:08:25 +0200 (IST)
Subject: A model of IP and patent sharing from commercial entities
 to produce free and open standards
In-Reply-To: <20031016213618.GG20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031016213618.GG20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170006050.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 10:07:48PM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> >
> > http://www.w3.org/2002/mmi/
> > http://www.w3.org/2001/ppwg/
> >
> > look who's missing from the member list (mmi link).
>
> Who?  Apache?  Could be many organizations.  Perhaps money is required
> to join.  Who knows.

M$, $ony, $amsung, ... all the usual culprits. Expect their pda's phones
and other devices not to be compatible ... and think twice before buying ?

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:10:35 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:10:35 +0200 (IST)
Subject: commie who ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170010130.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


By the way who exactly was called names again ?
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 21:58:02 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:58:02 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031016203619.GA334-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
	<20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031016175802.7fe303bc.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:19 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> trolls

ain't that the pot calling the kettle black... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?
		-- Ursula K. LeGuin
--
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From cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:14:39 2003
From: cgm-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Chris MacDonald)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:14:39 -0400
Subject: commie who ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170010130.7130-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170010130.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031016221439.GA3450@anarchy.ca>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 12:10:35AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> By the way who exactly was called names again ?

Everyone knows Linux is communism. Commie.

-cgm.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:04:29 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:04:29 -0400
Subject: commie who ?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170010130.7130-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170010130.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031016180429.13935399.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:10:35 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> By the way who exactly was called names again ?

I think I've been called a commie a coupla times. Don't mind it one
bit... ;-)


-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:16:08 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:16:08 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031016203619.GA334-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com> <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <3F8F18A8.4020807@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:55:03AM -0400, Hugh Reilly wrote:
> 
>>>From: Lloyd D Budd <lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org>
>>>
>>>Wow William, it seems lately that you have been argumentative for the
>>>sake of it.
>>
>>Yes, William, why don't you come downtown sometime and we'll give you
>>a big hug!!
> 
> 
> I'm tired of these commie trolls bitching about Microsoft, IBM, SCO,
> etc.  I wish they would, instead, invest their energy and time in coming
> up with viable business plans for Linux market.  We should, at least,
> acknowledge Bill Gates' marketing prowsess, because he went up against
> IBM (very big in those days) and won.  He single-handedly created IT
> market.  Look at all those mindless trolls, screaming for Linux products
> that look/feel/sound like Windows, MS-Office, and MS-Word.
> 

He also single handedly destroyed a lot of the industry, so that there's 
very little competition in many areas.  I assume by "marketing", you're 
including extortion.


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:15:49 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:15:49 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031016175802.7fe303bc.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com> <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031016175802.7fe303bc.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016221549.GA1233@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 05:58:02PM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:19 -0400
> William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > trolls
> 
> ain't that the pot calling the kettle black... ;-)

I need more beer...

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:20:42 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:20:42 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031016221549.GA1233-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
	<20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031016175802.7fe303bc.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031016221549.GA1233@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031016182042.4b09495f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:15:49 -0400
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I need more beer...

I'll buy ya one sometime, if we ever meet up at one o' these LUG
meetings, I promise not to do any "commie troll bitching" :-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
In order to discover who you are, first learn who everybody else is;
you're what's left.
--
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From lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:30:18 2003
From: lloyd-fEEwcc3XMu8jODpR/OX0VQ at public.gmane.org (Lloyd D Budd)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:30:18 -0400
Subject: CVS, Wiki and other office stuff
In-Reply-To: <3F8EEE53.6000307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8D95B3.4080703@rogers.com>
	 <1066317076.469.58.camel@localhost>
	 <20031016160021.GF20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
	 <200310161435.11228.fraser@wehave.net>  <3F8EEE53.6000307@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1066343417.21710.0.camel@localhost>

On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 15:15, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> as far as the wiki/contacts stuff i've chosen egroupware from
> www.egroupware.org-- this is simply amazing

Haha, I knew there was one missing from my list -- that recently had
been recommended -- and that is it!

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:45:09 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:45:09 +0200 (IST)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <3F8F18A8.4020807-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
 <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F18A8.4020807@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170033460.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, James Knott wrote:

> He also single handedly destroyed a lot of the industry, so that there's
> very little competition in many areas.  I assume by "marketing", you're
> including extortion.

I dunno if you read my link to the register article wrt. Israel dropping
M$ licensing etc due to antitrust stuff. I was just recently in a computer
shop notorious for its M$-ism. They had W2k pro for $150 and XP home for
$280 side by side, both boxed, on the same shelf. What more need I say ?
Oh, and no Linux. A few years ago they had (outdated) Suse and Red Hat
boxes and Slackware books (with cd, also outdated). Now, nada.

Can you plot a line for where this is going ? Boxed W98 was about $100 the
last time I saw it (long time ago). Shorthorn may well be $500 a box. That
will buy you a low grade computer, complete. See where this is going ? You
will be getting the hardware free, complete with DRM on it and W$ burned
into rom. To stay on topic, what (fpga) will Linux be running on by then ?

Peter

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:47:18 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:47:18 +0200 (IST)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031016175802.7fe303bc.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
 <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031016175802.7fe303bc.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170047070.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:19 -0400
> William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > trolls
>
> ain't that the pot calling the kettle black... ;-)

Three times ...

Peter
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:49:08 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:49:08 -0400
Subject: dupped messages
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162328440.943-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162328440.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <1066344548.6417.4.camel@linux.local>

I am with sympatico. Using Evolution, I have seen it give me an error,
then hang for a few minutes. After which the email is still in my
outbox, but has actually been sent. During the last week or so this has
happened to me approx a dozen times. If it happens again I will post the
exact error that occurs. If it attempts to send again and is
unsuccessful, i could see this causing multiple messages.

Sympatico says that this is due to "an increased amount of emails being
sent" lol ( spam probably )


On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 17:37, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> Actually tripled. This one from Joe Hill. Partial headers follow fyi:
> 
> 1st:
> Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
>         id 01E6C6D372; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
> 2nd:
> Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
>         id E48B973E7; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
> 3rd:
> Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
>         id DD6FD6D384; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
> 
> The rest of the message is identical. lethe.ss.org is the input of the
> list system so lethe cannot be at fault. Something or someone is echoing
> mail in triplicate on the internet.
> 
> I do not understand how a message sent by tcp/ip can be triplicated. lethe
> cleverly hides the sender ip so it is not possible to make it out.
> 
> Peter
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                           jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

--
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:50:37 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:50:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170033460.7130-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
 <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F18A8.4020807@rogers.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170033460.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161846490.2728@ns.istop.com>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> into rom. To stay on topic, what (fpga) will Linux be running on by then ?

I don't see any smileys here, so I'm going to assume you're serious.
If you are serious, you don't have a clue.  All of windows will never fit
in rom, and even kernel.exe is a squeeze.  The linux kernel already can be
run from flash (linuxbios.org).  FPGA = field programmable gate array, and
it's a totally different beast than ROM or flash.

-Ralph

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:42:24 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:42:24 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170047070.7130-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
	<20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031016175802.7fe303bc.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170047070.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031016184224.0b8d44ee.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 00:47:18 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Three times ...

Sorry, I really have no control over it...

Strange thing is, I only see mine once, but I see *other* people's posts
2 or more times...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but
that's the way to bet.
		-- Damon Runyon
--
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:57:57 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:57:57 -0400
Subject: dupped messages
In-Reply-To: <1066344548.6417.4.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162328440.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	 <1066344548.6417.4.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <1066344863.7040.10.camel@linux.local>

This is too concidental.
It just happened moments after I posted this. The message is:

"Error while performing operation:
DATA terminsation response error: Interrupted system call"


On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 18:49, Jason Shein wrote:
> I am with sympatico. Using Evolution, I have seen it give me an error,
> then hang for a few minutes. After which the email is still in my
> outbox, but has actually been sent. During the last week or so this has
> happened to me approx a dozen times. If it happens again I will post the
> exact error that occurs. If it attempts to send again and is
> unsuccessful, i could see this causing multiple messages.
> 
> Sympatico says that this is due to "an increased amount of emails being
> sent" lol ( spam probably )
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 17:37, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > Actually tripled. This one from Joe Hill. Partial headers follow fyi:
> > 
> > 1st:
> > Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
> >         id 01E6C6D372; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
> > 2nd:
> > Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
> >         id E48B973E7; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
> > 3rd:
> > Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
> >         id DD6FD6D384; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
> > 
> > The rest of the message is identical. lethe.ss.org is the input of the
> > list system so lethe cannot be at fault. Something or someone is echoing
> > mail in triplicate on the internet.
> > 
> > I do not understand how a message sent by tcp/ip can be triplicated. lethe
> > cleverly hides the sender ip so it is not possible to make it out.
> > 
> > Peter
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                           jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 22:59:27 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 18:59:27 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
Message-ID: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net>

What is conventional wisdom when you encounter bad sectors on harddisk?

I am only aware of 
    umount /dev/hdb1
    e2fsck -c /dev/hdb1		(read-only check)
or
    umount /dev/hdb1
    badblocks -n -b 4096 -o xxx /dev/hdb1	(non-destructive read-write)
    e2fsck -c -l xxx /dev/hdb1

Is there better way of 
    - identifying bad sectors (/var/log/syslog says so).
    - then mapping them out, so that filesystem does not use them.
?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 23:01:12 2003
From: jshein-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:01:12 -0400
Subject: dupped messages
In-Reply-To: <1066344548.6417.4.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162328440.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
	 <1066344548.6417.4.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <1066345246.6417.16.camel@linux.local>

The other message I seem to get is 

Error while performing operation:
Could not connect to smtp1.sympatico.ca (port 25): Interrupted system
call


On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 18:49, Jason Shein wrote:
> I am with sympatico. Using Evolution, I have seen it give me an error,
> then hang for a few minutes. After which the email is still in my
> outbox, but has actually been sent. During the last week or so this has
> happened to me approx a dozen times. If it happens again I will post the
> exact error that occurs. If it attempts to send again and is
> unsuccessful, i could see this causing multiple messages.
> 
> Sympatico says that this is due to "an increased amount of emails being
> sent" lol ( spam probably )
> 
> 
> On Thu, 2003-10-16 at 17:37, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > Actually tripled. This one from Joe Hill. Partial headers follow fyi:
> > 
> > 1st:
> > Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
> >         id 01E6C6D372; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:36:47 -0400 (EDT)
> > 2nd:
> > Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
> >         id E48B973E7; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:40:07 -0400 (EDT)
> > 3rd:
> > Received: by lethe.ss.org (Postfix, from userid 54)
> >         id DD6FD6D384; Thu, 16 Oct 2003 16:45:11 -0400 (EDT)
> > 
> > The rest of the message is identical. lethe.ss.org is the input of the
> > list system so lethe cannot be at fault. Something or someone is echoing
> > mail in triplicate on the internet.
> > 
> > I do not understand how a message sent by tcp/ip can be triplicated. lethe
> > cleverly hides the sender ip so it is not possible to make it out.
> > 
> > Peter
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
   (o_
   //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
   V_/_
                                  Jason Shein
                         Linux Registered User #281100
                           jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 23:05:46 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jay Carson)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:05:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: commie who ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016221439.GA3450-BjBj7/ohIX+w5LPnMra/2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170010130.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
    <20031016221439.GA3450@anarchy.ca>
Message-ID: <59151.66.11.182.5.1066345546.squirrel@cbits.ca>

http://forbes.com/2003/10/14/cz_dl_1014linksys.html

....Such a pity, comrade.

> On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 12:10:35AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>>
>> By the way who exactly was called names again ?
>
> Everyone knows Linux is communism. Commie.
>
> -cgm.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 23:13:30 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:13:30 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <20031016225927.GA1409-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031016190900.17106B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:
> What is conventional wisdom when you encounter bad sectors on harddisk?
> Is there better way of 
>     - identifying bad sectors (/var/log/syslog says so).
>     - then mapping them out, so that filesystem does not use them.

The recommended method for the second step is to *immediately* make a full
backup and replace the disk drive.  Blocks do not go bad for no reason
during disk operation; the appearance of new bad blocks almost always
means the disk is starting to die. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 23:27:14 2003
From: warren.postma-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Warren Postma)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:27:14 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031016190900.17106B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031016190900.17106B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F8F2952.4090208@sympatico.ca>

Henry Spencer wrote:

>The recommended method for the second step is to *immediately* make a full
>backup and replace the disk drive.  Blocks do not go bad for no reason
>during disk operation; the appearance of new bad blocks almost always
>means the disk is starting to die. 
>

These days you can buy a new hard drive so cheap that it is not worth 
losing your data,
unless your data is worthless.  I'm with Henry on this one.

Warren


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 16 23:40:44 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:40:44 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
Message-ID: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


I'm looking for another modem. Only one. I can buy a gross of Alcatel
SpeedTouch's if I order from overseas, but I'm hoping to get one locally.

My el-cheapo OvisLink that I bought off dsl.ca just had the ethernet
interface die on it, leaving only USB. Cheap connexant chip.

Any ideas, links, etc.?

-- 
Keith
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 00:00:41 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:00:41 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:40:44 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I'm looking for another modem. Only one. I can buy a gross of Alcatel
> SpeedTouch's if I order from overseas, but I'm hoping to get one
> locally.
> 
> My el-cheapo OvisLink that I bought off dsl.ca just had the ethernet
> interface die on it, leaving only USB. Cheap connexant chip.
> 
> Any ideas, links, etc.?

Let's buy in bulk, 'cuz I'm gonna need one if I switch from Symstupido,
which is looking very likely.

Ralph, I'm assuming your service will work with a client-provided modem?

Hey, maybe Ralph will give us a big discount if we switch en masse ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Disease can be cured; fate is incurable.
		-- Chinese proverb
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 00:27:26 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:27:26 -0400
Subject: And another antitrust action consequence ...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162012060.943-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162012060.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F8F376E.6050103@alteeve.com>

As much as I want to believe that Israel is taking this action based on 
the morally high grounds of MS being guilty, I rather believe that it 
has everything to do with MS not deciding to support Hebrew, as the 
article states. I assure you that the moment MS adopts Hebrew Israel 
will ignore that little anti trust thing.

Yes, I am synical.

Madison

Peter L. Peres wrote:
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33365.html
> 
> Peter
> --
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 00:21:03 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1074.216.138.194.32.1066350063.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 19:40:44 -0400 (EDT)
> "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>> I'm looking for another modem. Only one. I can buy a gross of Alcatel
>> SpeedTouch's if I order from overseas, but I'm hoping to get one
>> locally.
>>
>> My el-cheapo OvisLink that I bought off dsl.ca just had the ethernet
>> interface die on it, leaving only USB. Cheap connexant chip.
>>
>> Any ideas, links, etc.?
>
> Let's buy in bulk, 'cuz I'm gonna need one if I switch from Symstupido,
> which is looking very likely.

I'm assuming you have a market to move 142 modems after you get yours and
I get mine? :)

>
> Ralph, I'm assuming your service will work with a client-provided modem?
>
> Hey, maybe Ralph will give us a big discount if we switch en masse ;-)

Naw, let's not try to put him out of business. Just saving on the modem
rental is good.

-- 
Keith
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 00:52:39 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:52:39 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <1074.216.138.194.32.1066350063.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1074.216.138.194.32.1066350063.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016205239.57fc624e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I'm assuming you have a market to move 142 modems after you get yours
> and I get mine? :)

How hard do you think it would be to find 142 unhappy Sympatico
customers?

<big shit-eating grin>

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Loneliness is a terrible price to pay for independence.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 01:02:08 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:02:08 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <20031016225927.GA1409-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <3F8F3F90.4020803@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:
> What is conventional wisdom when you encounter bad sectors on harddisk?

If the disk is reporting bad spots, it means it's used all the spare 
sectors and it's not long for this world.  In other words, go get a new 
drive and copy everything over, while you still can.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 01:04:57 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:04:57 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <20031016205239.57fc624e.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>	<20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<1074.216.138.194.32.1066350063.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031016205239.57fc624e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8F4039.3040405@rogers.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
> "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> 
>>I'm assuming you have a market to move 142 modems after you get yours
>>and I get mine? :)
> 
> 
> How hard do you think it would be to find 142 unhappy Sympatico
> customers?

Well, all you have to do is e-mail them and...  Oh yeah, I forgot...   ;-)



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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 01:11:21 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:11:21 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
 <20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346@ns.istop.com>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> Ralph, I'm assuming your service will work with a client-provided modem?

Yup.

> Hey, maybe Ralph will give us a big discount if we switch en masse ;-)

Our qty 12 price on the speedstream 5260 modems is $54.

-Ralph

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 01:01:36 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:01:36 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <3F8F4039.3040405-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1074.216.138.194.32.1066350063.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031016205239.57fc624e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F8F4039.3040405@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031016210136.6e410e2d.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:04:57 -0400
James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Well, all you have to do is e-mail them and...  Oh yeah, I forgot...  
> ;-)

ROTFLMAO! Thanks, I needed that...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the
palpably
not true.  It is the chief occupation of mankind.
		-- H.L. Mencken
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 01:08:32 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:08:32 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031016210832.72952691.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:11:21 -0400 (EDT)
Ralph Doncaster <ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Our qty 12 price on the speedstream 5260 modems is $54.

I've got one here that I use for my Sympatico service...suppose it were
to 'go missing'....

Seriously, we gotta have 12 people we can sign up on here?!

I'm dyyyyin!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The days are all empty and the nights are unreal.
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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 01:39:44 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:39:44 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
In-Reply-To: <3F700EBF.44611AF2-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162137500.22328@epoch.cs>

Did you upgrade to the .71 release?  I think it's a bug in that release.
I was unable to get online with that one as well.  I'm running the .67 and
I'm still online on gaim right now, no problem.

Also, M$ has ominously threatened to kick off all non-MSN .NET clients,
but as far as I can tell, hasn't made good on the threat yet.


On Tue, 23 Sep 2003, Chris Aitken wrote:

> All of a sudden (yes, really, no configuration changes) my daughter
> can't get into MSN with gaim. Error she gets is,
>
> Tue Sep23 04:32:01 2003
> surfer_gurl-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org was unable
> to sign on: Protocol not supported.
>
> She tried waiting a day, logging on/off,  logging in as me, two cold
> boots and unloading/reloading the hotmail module (whatever it's
> called).
>
> Still gets the error.
>
> A google search on key words 'hotmail gaim protocol not supported'
> gave me nothing helpful.
>
> She's been usig this trouble-free for months.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Chris
>
>
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 01:57:14 2003
From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 21:57:14 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B6E@RIKER>

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/10/16/0253253&mode=thread&tid=109&tid=
185&tid=187

As explained in the above link "October 15th is the day Microsoft set to ban
third party clients from logging in to their IM service."
I think your problem is related to this action by M$.


-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Aitken [mailto:aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 23, 2003 5:25 AM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: gaim: protocol not supported


Jing Su wrote:

> Did you upgrade to the .71 release?

[chris at p166 chris]$ rpm -q gaim
gaim-0.53-1

> I think it's a bug in that release.
> I was unable to get online with that one as well.  I'm running the .67 and
> I'm still online on gaim right now, no problem.

OK, I'll see if I have a newer version on a CD somewhere.

>
> Also, M$ has ominously threatened to kick off all non-MSN .NET clients,
> but as far as I can tell, hasn't made good on the threat yet.

Wow.

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From awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 02:00:32 2003
From: awh-z32R3RYGf1M at public.gmane.org (Drew Hamilton)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:00:32 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
In-Reply-To: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B6E-zjka4IdDAzw@public.gmane.org>
References: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B6E@RIKER>
Message-ID: <20031017020032.GA17827%awh@awh.org>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:57:14PM -0400, Jim Skehill wrote:
> As explained in the above link "October 15th is the day Microsoft set to ban
> third party clients from logging in to their IM service."
> I think your problem is related to this action by M$.

I don't think that it was as much a third-party ban as it was a
decision to stop supporting an old protocol.

Third-party IM clients that support the new protocol all work fine.

 - awh

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 02:20:32 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:20:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <20031016205239.57fc624e.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca><20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca><1074.216.138.194.32.1066350063.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031016205239.57fc624e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1265.216.138.194.32.1066357232.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 20:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
> "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>> I'm assuming you have a market to move 142 modems after you get yours
>> and I get mine? :)
>
> How hard do you think it would be to find 142 unhappy Sympatico
> customers?

Easy as can be. Finding 142 unhappy Sympatico customers who would
switch... different story. I couldn't keep that kind of capital tied up
for long enough unless we had a sure bet.

Bell has it all over the little guys for the unwashed masses. They give
away the show with all the freebies, no deposit on the modems, no first
and last month, etc. We need to understand that the telco's play the
confidence game in the stock market. Their viability is not in the profit
margin per unit, but in the bulk number of clients they get/have/keep.

Personally, I would rather pay for services knowing that they are
dependable and that my $$ is going to people who work for it.

All I want for X-mas... :)

-- 
Keith
(416)429 9304
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From dhau-2ig/rRVgfYk at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 02:08:43 2003
From: dhau-2ig/rRVgfYk at public.gmane.org (Adrian Oboroc)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:08:43 +0400
Subject: dsl modem
Message-ID: <20031017020843.16693.qmail@mailgate.ru>

> I'm looking for another modem. Only one. I can buy a gross of Alcatel
> SpeedTouch's if I order from overseas, but I'm hoping to get one locally.
> 
> My el-cheapo OvisLink that I bought off dsl.ca just had the ethernet
> interface die on it, leaving only USB. Cheap connexant chip.
> 
> Any ideas, links, etc.?

I've seen GVC DSL modems for 99.95 CA$ in one of the stores at Spadina and College.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 03:14:52 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:14:52 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <1265.216.138.194.32.1066357232.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1074.216.138.194.32.1066350063.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031016205239.57fc624e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1265.216.138.194.32.1066357232.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031016231452.6472091f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 16 Oct 2003 22:20:32 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Personally, I would rather pay for services knowing that they are
> dependable and that my $$ is going to people who work for it.

I hear ya.
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We have reason to be afraid.  This is a terrible place.
		-- John Berryman
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 03:14:38 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:14:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <20031017020843.16693.qmail-pb599fR3TxUox3rIn2DAYQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031017020843.16693.qmail@mailgate.ru>
Message-ID: <1417.216.138.194.32.1066360478.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> I've seen GVC DSL modems for 99.95 CA$ in one of the stores at Spadina
> and College.

Thanks anyway. I can get the GVC or the d-Link, etc. I love the speedtouch
because it's stable. I'm so ticked at this OvisLink that I won't even call
my vendor for an RMA. Piece o junk...

-- 
Keith
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 03:27:50 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 23:27:50 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
Message-ID: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca>

I'm trying to verify rh9 .isos on cds I've burned but I keep getting I/O 
errors or it just doesn't finish. I've downloaded them from RH's ftp 
server and checking them on my harddrive they are fine. Any ideas why I 
would have trouble with md5sum on CDs?  
I'm doing :
md5sum /dev/cdrom

Thanks,
Jim

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 05:14:41 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:14:41 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I just noticed on your web page, mr. president you mention that the 
nortel 1 Meg Modem is not ADSL, I was suprised to hear this.  I guess 
sympatico might have stopped using this type of modem for a while now, 
it's been years since I used it, can you explain what kind of protocol 
it really is?

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 10:30:54 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:30:54 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346@ns.istop.com>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031017063054.5fec9063.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:14:41 -0400 (EDT)
Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> mr. president

Ralph, do we have to call you that if we sign up, 'cause I'm sorry, but
I have serious issues with that... ;-)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life only demands from you the strength you possess.
Only one feat is possible -- not to have run away.
		-- Dag Hammarskjold
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 10:49:13 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 06:49:13 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
In-Reply-To: <3F8F61B6.6010800-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <3F8FC929.9000101@rogers.com>

Jim Ruxton wrote:
> I'm trying to verify rh9 .isos on cds I've burned but I keep getting I/O 
> errors or it just doesn't finish. I've downloaded them from RH's ftp 
> server and checking them on my harddrive they are fine. Any ideas why I 
> would have trouble with md5sum on CDs?  I'm doing :
> md5sum /dev/cdrom

Generally, you run md5sum against the ISO files, before you burn the CD. 
  You're getting errors, because the CD does not match what it's expecting.


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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 12:41:23 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:41:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170837400.17001@ns.istop.com>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> I just noticed on your web page, mr. president you mention that the
> nortel 1 Meg Modem is not ADSL, I was suprised to hear this.  I guess
> sympatico might have stopped using this type of modem for a while now,
> it's been years since I used it, can you explain what kind of protocol
> it really is?

In the broadest sense the 1MM is ADSL, but it's not standard ADSL.
Standard ADSL = G.992 AKA G.DMT (an ITU standard).  It uses discrete
multi-tone at layer1 and ATM at layer2.  The nortel 1MM uses CAP at layer1
and (I believe) ethernet at layer2.

-Ralph

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 12:47:16 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:47:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <20031017063054.5fec9063.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346@ns.istop.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <20031017063054.5fec9063.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170841280.17001@ns.istop.com>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 01:14:41 -0400 (EDT)
> Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > mr. president
>
> Ralph, do we have to call you that if we sign up, 'cause I'm sorry, but
> I have serious issues with that... ;-)

No, just don't call me Shirley. ;-)

-Ralph

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From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 12:56:58 2003
From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ladislav Svatos)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 08:56:58 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
In-Reply-To: <3F8F61B6.6010800-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <200310170856.59075.lada@agawa.com>

On October 16, 2003 11:27 pm, Jim Ruxton wrote:
> I'm trying to verify rh9 .isos on cds I've burned but I keep getting I/O
> errors or it just doesn't finish. I've downloaded them from RH's ftp
> server and checking them on my harddrive they are fine. Any ideas why I
> would have trouble with md5sum on CDs?
> I'm doing :
> md5sum /dev/cdrom
>
> Thanks,
> Jim

Since the CD is padded with zeros you have to get block count first:

df -k /mnt/cdrom

umount /mnt/cdrom

Use the block count from the df command:

dd if=/dev/cdrom count=block_count bs=1024 | md5sum

You can also use the media check option after you boot from the CD.

Lada
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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 13:36:28 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 16:36:28 +0300
Subject: about Wiznet
Message-ID: <BAY99-F56uutSgcOrBL00000106@hotmail.com>

Thanks for the tips.

How long have you been with 1staccess and how do you find them? I am 
basically interested in reliable internet connection and the ability to run 
my own servers (web and email) and a vpn connection (Though at this point I 
am not yet decided what technology to employ for vpn. Technology that 
require minimal client side setup, give transparent network access and is 
fully secure will be ideal.).

Cheers,
EK


>From: "Luke Hickson" <dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
>Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:34:14 -0400
>
>Just my two cents.
>
>I found that same experience with wiznet - actually DSL.ca went bankrupt 
>and Wiznet bought up the assets. This was told to me directly by an 
>employee of wiznet. Their service is degrading and has since the takeover. 
>(disconnections, poor customer service).
>
>That's why I am switching to http://www.1staccess.ca  $ 26.99 for 1.5M 
>service + $4 for static ip. And they allow you to run servers.
>
>Cheers, Luke Hickson
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Keith Mastin
>   To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>   Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:55 PM
>   Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
>
>
>
>   > Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are planing 
>to
>   > switch over to a different service provider. I just came across the
>   > Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one have any
>   > experience with them? Which high speed provider is the best in 
>Toronto?
>
>   ...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.
>
>   ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's important 
>to
>   you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that sympatico
>   provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link to the 'net? Do
>   you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the same peer (great for
>   daily backups). Do you want to run servers? Is it a commercial or res
>   account?
>
>   Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just good
>   techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
>   bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
>   technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's only
>   been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get to speak to 
>a
>   live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.
>
>   As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point, but they
>   may be improving things. Only time will tell.
>
>   I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's my
>   thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably pretty
>   much confident in the level of service his company provides.
>
>   --
>   Keith Mastin
>   BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
>   Toronto, Canada
>   (416)429 9304
>   --
>   The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>   TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>   How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

_________________________________________________________________
Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in 
enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today!   
http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

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From davidm-6UJY8ib/KiBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 13:49:32 2003
From: davidm-6UJY8ib/KiBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org (David Mayerlen)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <BAY99-F56uutSgcOrBL00000106-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F56uutSgcOrBL00000106@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000@localhost>

Hey,

 I have had zero problems with Wiznet. The one time I did have a problem
which turned out to be a problem at my end I spoke with a live body who
was extremely knowledgable and helpful. I have been with them for about 5
months now. I'm running servers, VPN, sending email through their mail
server and all is fine so far :-)

 I also scored a nice Alcatel DSL Modem from them...

=========================================================
| David Mayerlen
| Mayerlen Consulting Inc
| davidm-6UJY8ib/KiBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org
| 416-505-9470
=========================================================

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, E K wrote:

> Thanks for the tips.
>
> How long have you been with 1staccess and how do you find them? I am
> basically interested in reliable internet connection and the ability to run
> my own servers (web and email) and a vpn connection (Though at this point I
> am not yet decided what technology to employ for vpn. Technology that
> require minimal client side setup, give transparent network access and is
> fully secure will be ideal.).
>
> Cheers,
> EK
>
>
> >From: "Luke Hickson" <dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
> >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:34:14 -0400
> >
> >Just my two cents.
> >
> >I found that same experience with wiznet - actually DSL.ca went bankrupt
> >and Wiznet bought up the assets. This was told to me directly by an
> >employee of wiznet. Their service is degrading and has since the takeover.
> >(disconnections, poor customer service).
> >
> >That's why I am switching to http://www.1staccess.ca  $ 26.99 for 1.5M
> >service + $4 for static ip. And they allow you to run servers.
> >
> >Cheers, Luke Hickson
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Keith Mastin
> >   To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >   Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:55 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
> >
> >
> >
> >   > Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are planing
> >to
> >   > switch over to a different service provider. I just came across the
> >   > Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one have any
> >   > experience with them? Which high speed provider is the best in
> >Toronto?
> >
> >   ...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.
> >
> >   ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's important
> >to
> >   you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that sympatico
> >   provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link to the 'net? Do
> >   you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the same peer (great for
> >   daily backups). Do you want to run servers? Is it a commercial or res
> >   account?
> >
> >   Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just good
> >   techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
> >   bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
> >   technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's only
> >   been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get to speak to
> >a
> >   live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.
> >
> >   As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point, but they
> >   may be improving things. Only time will tell.
> >
> >   I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's my
> >   thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably pretty
> >   much confident in the level of service his company provides.
> >
> >   --
> >   Keith Mastin
> >   BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> >   Toronto, Canada
> >   (416)429 9304
> >   --
> >   The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >   TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >   How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign in
> enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today!
> http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 14:44:01 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:44:01 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000@localhost>
Message-ID: <200310171044.01744.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 17 October 2003 09:49, David Mayerlen wrote:

>  I have had zero problems with Wiznet. The one time I did have a problem
> which turned out to be a problem at my end I spoke with a live body who
> was extremely knowledgable and helpful. I have been with them for about 5
> months now. I'm running servers, VPN, sending email through their mail
> server and all is fine so far :-)

I wouldn't go near Wiznet.  A client of ours has been with them for 3-4 years 
and service has been getting worse and worse.  12+ hours of downtime has 
happened quite often, for a business connection at $350-$400/month that is 
totally unacceptable.  They are rarely successfull in talking with anyone 
there in a timely fashion when there are problems, often getting busy 
signals.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 14:19:13 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:19:13 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F56uutSgcOrBL00000106@hotmail.com>
	<Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031017101913.652df04c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
David Mayerlen <davidm-6UJY8ib/KiBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Hey,
> 
>  I have had zero problems with Wiznet. The one time I did have a
>  problem
> which turned out to be a problem at my end I spoke with a live body
> who was extremely knowledgable and helpful. I have been with them for
> about 5 months now. I'm running servers, VPN, sending email through
> their mail server and all is fine so far :-)
> 
>  I also scored a nice Alcatel DSL Modem from them...

I can't seem to find any pricing info on their site, what is the
breakdown there, if you have that info?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, you know, no matter where you go, there you are.
		-- Buckaroo Banzai
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 14:33:41 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:33:41 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F56uutSgcOrBL00000106@hotmail.com>
	<Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031017103341.0314bfeb.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 09:49:32 -0400 (EDT)
David Mayerlen <davidm-6UJY8ib/KiBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Hey,
> 
>  I have had zero problems with Wiznet. The one time I did have a
>  problem
> which turned out to be a problem at my end I spoke with a live body
> who was extremely knowledgable and helpful. I have been with them for
> about 5 months now. I'm running servers, VPN, sending email through
> their mail server and all is fine so far :-)
> 
>  I also scored a nice Alcatel DSL Modem from them...

I can't seem to find any pricing info on their site, what is the
breakdown there, if you have that info?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, you know, no matter where you go, there you are.
		-- Buckaroo Banzai
--
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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 16:07:28 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:07:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031017160728.68330.qmail@web21007.mail.yahoo.com>

Not using Sympatico, but the same with my yahoo account is happening with the tlug list only.

JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
e-mails *constantly*?

I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
various sources and lists. 

I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.




Regards,
Stephen


---------------------------------
Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
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From reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 16:30:43 2003
From: reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (rh)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:30:43 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031017160728.68330.qmail-CSN5NI0FmByA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031017160728.68330.qmail@web21007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031017123043.6ddbe808.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>

Is anyone else on sympatico having trouble sending mail?
Have been for a few days. Takes forever to send even the
simplest of emails. Even when it says it sends them, sometimes it
doesn't. 


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:07:28 -0400 (EDT)
Stephen <kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> Not using Sympatico, but the same with my yahoo account is happening
> with the tlug list only.
> 
> JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies
> of e-mails *constantly*?
> 
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists. 
> 
> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Stephen
> 
> 
> ---------------------------------
> Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
> 
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From cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 16:50:13 2003
From: cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (cybervoyager)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:50:13 -0400
Subject: Sympatico Mail Dupes?
References: <20031017160728.68330.qmail@web21007.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <011c01c394ce$bc640070$01043141@alpha>

I used to use Sympatico about 2 years ago.. they had a big special christmas sign on package..
sign up now befoe xmas and you get a discount.. so I tried it out... 

Yes I had the same thing happening back then.. getting tons of duplicate emails, so it seems
by everyones comments on this list, that this is not something new with sympatico. 
I totally forgot about it, until I started hearing about it on this list again. Never did figure
out why it was occuring, but obviously Sympatico has not fixed the problem, if this has
been an ongoing issue for over two years.

I am on Mr. Rogers neighbourhood (Rogers Cable) at the moment and have never
seen this mail duplicate problem with Rogers, as of yet. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Stephen 
  To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org 
  Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 12:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Mail Dupes?


  Not using Sympatico, but the same with my yahoo account is happening with the tlug list only.

  JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> wrote: 

    Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
    e-mails *constantly*?

    I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
    various sources and lists. 

    I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.




  Regards,
  Stephen




------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Post your free ad now! Yahoo! Canada Personals
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 16:36:22 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:36:22 -0400
Subject: Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: <20031017123043.6ddbe808.reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031017160728.68330.qmail@web21007.mail.yahoo.com>
	<20031017123043.6ddbe808.reg.hughson@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031017123622.5dbd061c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:30:43 -0400
rh <reg.hughson-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Is anyone else on sympatico having trouble sending mail?
> Have been for a few days. Takes forever to send even the
> simplest of emails. Even when it says it sends them, sometimes it
> doesn't. 

Yep, which is why I'm lookin' at other providers.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We're all in this alone.
		-- Lily Tomlin
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 16:46:43 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:46:43 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
In-Reply-To: <3F7030E8.239E070F-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162137500.22328@epoch.cs>
	<3F7030E8.239E070F@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031017124643.5e6c40a4.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:39:20 -0400
Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> [root at p166 chris]# rpm -i /home/chris/glib*
> error: failed dependencies:
>  glibc-common = 2.3.2-98 is needed by glibc-2.3.2-98
>  libgcc   is needed by glibc-2.3.2-98
>  glibc > 2.2.5 conflicts with glibc-common-2.2.5-34

IIRC, glibc is the basis on which your whole system is built.

In order to upgrade that, you'd have to upgrade your entire system.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I know not how I came into this, shall I call it a dying life or a
living death?
		-- St. Augustine
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 17:31:54 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:31:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: about Wiznet
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F56uutSgcOrBL00000106@hotmail.com>
        <Pine.OSX.4.33.0310170946220.1024-100000@localhost>
Message-ID: <1164.207.236.220.78.1066411914.squirrel@www.lijour.net>

> Hey,
>
>  I have had zero problems with Wiznet. The one time I did have a problem
> which turned out to be a problem at my end I spoke with a live body who
> was extremely knowledgable and helpful. I have been with them for about
> 5 months now. I'm running servers, VPN, sending email through their mail
> server and all is fine so far :-)

Are you using proxy.dsl.ca?

I also noticed a performance loss of more than 60% if I compare from the
time I subscribed to dsl.ca.


>  I also scored a nice Alcatel DSL Modem from them...
>
> =========================================================
> | David Mayerlen
> | Mayerlen Consulting Inc
> | davidm-6UJY8ib/KiBiLUuM0BA3LQ at public.gmane.org
> | 416-505-9470
> =========================================================
>
> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, E K wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the tips.
>>
>> How long have you been with 1staccess and how do you find them? I am
>> basically interested in reliable internet connection and the ability
>> to run my own servers (web and email) and a vpn connection (Though at
>> this point I am not yet decided what technology to employ for vpn.
>> Technology that require minimal client side setup, give transparent
>> network access and is fully secure will be ideal.).
>>
>> Cheers,
>> EK
>>
>>
>> >From: "Luke Hickson" <dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>> >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>> >To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
>> >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
>> >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:34:14 -0400
>> >
>> >Just my two cents.
>> >
>> >I found that same experience with wiznet - actually DSL.ca went
>> bankrupt and Wiznet bought up the assets. This was told to me
>> directly by an employee of wiznet. Their service is degrading and has
>> since the takeover. (disconnections, poor customer service).
>> >
>> >That's why I am switching to http://www.1staccess.ca  $ 26.99 for
>> 1.5M service + $4 for static ip. And they allow you to run servers.
>> >
>> >Cheers, Luke Hickson
>> >
>> >
>> >   ----- Original Message -----
>> >   From: Keith Mastin
>> >   To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>> >   Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:55 PM
>> >   Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >   > Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are
>> planing
>> >to
>> >   > switch over to a different service provider. I just came across
>> the Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one
>> have any experience with them? Which high speed provider is the
>> best in
>> >Toronto?
>> >
>> >   ...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.
>> >
>> >   ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's
>> important
>> >to
>> >   you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that
>> sympatico provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link
>> to the 'net? Do you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the
>> same peer (great for daily backups). Do you want to run servers?
>> Is it a commercial or res account?
>> >
>> >   Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just
>> good techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
>> bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
>> technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's
>> only been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get
>> to speak to
>> >a
>> >   live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.
>> >
>> >   As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point,
>> but they may be improving things. Only time will tell.
>> >
>> >   I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's
>> my thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably
>> pretty much confident in the level of service his company
>> provides.
>> >
>> >   --
>> >   Keith Mastin
>> >   BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
>> >   Toronto, Canada
>> >   (416)429 9304
>> >   --
>> >   The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to
>> sign in enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today!
>> http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
>>
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG
>> requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to
>> UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
>>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 17:42:36 2003
From: linux-cOjNTMaGA5U at public.gmane.org (Ian Goldberg)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 13:42:36 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
In-Reply-To: <20031017124643.5e6c40a4.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162137500.22328@epoch.cs> <3F7030E8.239E070F@onlink.net> <20031017124643.5e6c40a4.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031017174236.GL4059@paip.net>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 12:46:43PM -0400, JoeHill wrote:
> On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 07:39:20 -0400
> Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > [root at p166 chris]# rpm -i /home/chris/glib*
> > error: failed dependencies:
> >  glibc-common = 2.3.2-98 is needed by glibc-2.3.2-98
> >  libgcc   is needed by glibc-2.3.2-98
> >  glibc > 2.2.5 conflicts with glibc-common-2.2.5-34
> 
> IIRC, glibc is the basis on which your whole system is built.
> 
> In order to upgrade that, you'd have to upgrade your entire system.

But you could just compile the new version of gaim yourself with your
existing glibc, no?  [i.e. don't install from rpm.]

   - Ian
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 18:18:38 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:18:38 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca> <200310170856.59075.lada@agawa.com>
Message-ID: <3F90327E.2030106@passport.ca>

Ladislav Svatos wrote:

>On October 16, 2003 11:27 pm, Jim Ruxton wrote:
>  
>
>>I'm trying to verify rh9 .isos on cds I've burned but I keep getting I/O
>>errors or it just doesn't finish. I've downloaded them from RH's ftp
>>server and checking them on my harddrive they are fine. Any ideas why I
>>would have trouble with md5sum on CDs?
>>I'm doing :
>>md5sum /dev/cdrom
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Jim
>>    
>>
>
>Since the CD is padded with zeros you have to get block count first:
>
>df -k /mnt/cdrom
>
>umount /mnt/cdrom
>
>Use the block count from the df command:
>
>dd if=/dev/cdrom count=block_count bs=1024 | md5sum
>
>You can also use the media check option after you boot from the CD.
>
Thanks Lada,
I tried this and get a result saying
2+0 records in
2+0 records out
c99a74c555371a433d121f551d6c6398  -

This last number is not the correct md5sum and it happened too quickly 
which makes me think it didn't read off the cd.

>You can also use the media check option after you boot from the CD.

Yes this seems to work ok but I'd like to figure out the md5sum issue as well. 

Thanks again,
Jim

 

>
>Lada
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
>  
>



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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 18:20:39 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:20:39 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca> <3F8FC929.9000101@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F9032F7.9070802@passport.ca>


> Jim Ruxton wrote:
>
>> I'm trying to verify rh9 .isos on cds I've burned but I keep getting 
>> I/O errors or it just doesn't finish. I've downloaded them from RH's 
>> ftp server and checking them on my harddrive they are fine. Any ideas 
>> why I would have trouble with md5sum on CDs? I'm doing :
>> md5sum /dev/cdrom
>
>
> Generally, you run md5sum against the ISO files, before you burn the 
> CD. You're getting errors, because the CD does not match what it's 
> expecting. 

I thought the whole idea of md5sum was to verify the "actual" file you 
were using



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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 18:31:40 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:31:40 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <3F8F3F90.4020803-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F3F90.4020803@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031017183140.GA550@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:02:08PM -0400, James Knott wrote:
> William Park wrote:
> >What is conventional wisdom when you encounter bad sectors on harddisk?
> 
> If the disk is reporting bad spots, it means it's used all the spare 
> sectors and it's not long for this world.  In other words, go get a new 
> drive and copy everything over, while you still can.

How do you recover a file which contains a bad sector?

I haven't been doing backups as frequently as I used to.  And, there is
a file that has 1 month of new data. :-/  I can un-delete a file using
'debugfs'.  But, I haven't come across any utility which will go to work
on a file with a bad sector.  Even partial recovery would be fine.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 18:49:14 2003
From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ladislav Svatos)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:49:14 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
In-Reply-To: <3F90327E.2030106-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca> <200310170856.59075.lada@agawa.com> <3F90327E.2030106@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <200310171449.14386.lada@agawa.com>

> I tried this and get a result saying
> 2+0 records in
> 2+0 records out
> c99a74c555371a433d121f551d6c6398  -

Did you mount the CD?
How many blocks does df report?
It should be around 653k.

Lada

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 18:54:31 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 14:54:31 -0400
Subject: A model of IP and patent sharing from commercial entities to produce free and open standards
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170006050.7130-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031016213618.GG20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170006050.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031017185431.GH20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 12:08:25AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> M$, $ony, $amsung, ... all the usual culprits. Expect their pda's phones
> and other devices not to be compatible ... and think twice before buying ?

Microsoft is there, as is Nokia, Ericson, Alcatel, along with some of the
companies that make the web software for many cellphones.

Lennart Sorensen
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From dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:06:05 2003
From: dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Luke Hickson)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:06:05 -0400
Subject: about Wiznet
References: <BAY99-F56uutSgcOrBL00000106@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <LAW11-OE20DRVmenERG00005c33@hotmail.com>

I have to admit  I am not quite a subscriber of there service yet -
conversion to 1st access ( http://www.1staccess.ca ) to happen later this
mth. BTW for clarification they also go under the name of Teksavvy solutions
http://www.teksavvy.com. Web, email, ftp and the like servers are allowed.

I am switching to them as a result of a couple of recommendations from
current subscribers to their service, and also ratings found on
www.canadianisp.com  a VERY good tool in comparing what is available though
ISPs in Canada (mthy charges, if they allow you to run servers, tells you
download caps - where applicable :)

Hope this helps,
Luke Hickson




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "E K" <ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 9:36 AM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet


> Thanks for the tips.
>
> How long have you been with 1staccess and how do you find them? I am
> basically interested in reliable internet connection and the ability to
run
> my own servers (web and email) and a vpn connection (Though at this point
I
> am not yet decided what technology to employ for vpn. Technology that
> require minimal client side setup, give transparent network access and is
> fully secure will be ideal.).
>
> Cheers,
> EK
>
>
> >From: "Luke Hickson" <dj_yaz-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
> >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
> >Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 15:34:14 -0400
> >
> >Just my two cents.
> >
> >I found that same experience with wiznet - actually DSL.ca went bankrupt
> >and Wiznet bought up the assets. This was told to me directly by an
> >employee of wiznet. Their service is degrading and has since the
takeover.
> >(disconnections, poor customer service).
> >
> >That's why I am switching to http://www.1staccess.ca  $ 26.99 for 1.5M
> >service + $4 for static ip. And they allow you to run servers.
> >
> >Cheers, Luke Hickson
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Keith Mastin
> >   To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >   Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2003 12:55 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [TLUG]: about Wiznet
> >
> >
> >
> >   > Because of the prolonged problem with their mail relay we are
planing
> >to
> >   > switch over to a different service provider. I just came across the
> >   > Wiznet, some thing that I have never heard of. Does any one have any
> >   > experience with them? Which high speed provider is the best in
> >Toronto?
> >
> >   ...hmmm... I like Arbies better than McDonalds.
> >
> >   ISP's are also largely a matter of taste/preferences. What's important
> >to
> >   you? Want webmail, news, etc., and all the other extras that sympatico
> >   provides? Or do you just need a reliable always-on link to the 'net?
Do
> >   you want unlimited bandwidth transfers within the same peer (great for
> >   daily backups). Do you want to run servers? Is it a commercial or res
> >   account?
> >
> >   Wiznet was a great provider when they were dsl.ca and were just good
> >   techies with lousy business practices. Since they bought/were
> >   bought/joined/merged with wiznet it's been downhill all the way
> >   technologically speaking. The service is now intermittant and it's
only
> >   been in the last couple of weeks that one could actually get to speak
to
> >a
> >   live body instead of leaving endless unanswered messages.
> >
> >   As a result, I wouldn't recommend them to anyone at this point, but
they
> >   may be improving things. Only time will tell.
> >
> >   I'm thinking real hard about going over to Ralph's service. Here's my
> >   thinking: If he's got the nuts to be on this list he's probably pretty
> >   much confident in the level of service his company provides.
> >
> >   --
> >   Keith Mastin
> >   BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
> >   Toronto, Canada
> >   (416)429 9304
> >   --
> >   The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >   TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >   How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Fretting that your Hotmail account may expire because you forgot to sign
in
> enough? Get Hotmail Extra Storage today!
> http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es
>
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>
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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:10:42 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:10:42 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
In-Reply-To: <3F9032F7.9070802-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca> <3F8FC929.9000101@rogers.com>
 <3F9032F7.9070802@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310171509040.25050@epoch.cs>

> > Jim Ruxton wrote:
> >
> >> I'm trying to verify rh9 .isos on cds I've burned but I keep getting
> >> I/O errors or it just doesn't finish. I've downloaded them from RH's
> >> ftp server and checking them on my harddrive they are fine. Any ideas
> >> why I would have trouble with md5sum on CDs? I'm doing :
> >> md5sum /dev/cdrom

Maybe an alternative is to "rip" the CD back into an ISO image file on
your HD and run the MD5 on that?  If there is an error on the burned CD,
this should catch it.  It's a little wasteful of space and time, but since
you're having trouble getting it to work directly on the CD anyways this
might be worth a try.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:05:30 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:05:30 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <2533.216.138.194.32.1066347644.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031016200041.31348c4b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031017190530.GJ20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:11:21PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> Our qty 12 price on the speedstream 5260 modems is $54.

Those work well in my experience.  We have been using one with Bell
Nexxia service for a couple of years now after the Alcatel 1000 started
going flacky.  The tech said they couldn't get a hold of more Alcatels
at that time, but we haven't had any issues with the speedstream.  it
just works.  It can also stand vertically saving desk space. :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:06:58 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:06:58 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170837400.17001-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170837400.17001@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031017190658.GK20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:41:23AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> In the broadest sense the 1MM is ADSL, but it's not standard ADSL.
> Standard ADSL = G.992 AKA G.DMT (an ITU standard).  It uses discrete
> multi-tone at layer1 and ATM at layer2.  The nortel 1MM uses CAP at layer1
> and (I believe) ethernet at layer2.

What is G.lite that many ADSL modems mention?

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:08:29 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:08:29 -0400
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
In-Reply-To: <3F8F61B6.6010800-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <20031017190829.GL20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 11:27:50PM -0400, Jim Ruxton wrote:
> I'm trying to verify rh9 .isos on cds I've burned but I keep getting I/O 
> errors or it just doesn't finish. I've downloaded them from RH's ftp 
> server and checking them on my harddrive they are fine. Any ideas why I 
> would have trouble with md5sum on CDs?  
> I'm doing :
> md5sum /dev/cdrom

You can't do that.  You need to use readcd or something similar with the
right parameters to get a cd image dump due to issues with read
capacity, read ahead buffers and other annoyances that I keep reading
about on the cdwrite mailing list.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:11:59 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:11:59 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <20031016225927.GA1409-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031017191159.GM20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 06:59:27PM -0400, William Park wrote:
> What is conventional wisdom when you encounter bad sectors on harddisk?
> 
> I am only aware of 
>     umount /dev/hdb1
>     e2fsck -c /dev/hdb1		(read-only check)
> or
>     umount /dev/hdb1
>     badblocks -n -b 4096 -o xxx /dev/hdb1	(non-destructive read-write)
>     e2fsck -c -l xxx /dev/hdb1
> 
> Is there better way of 
>     - identifying bad sectors (/var/log/syslog says so).
>     - then mapping them out, so that filesystem does not use them.

Unless the HD is small by today's standards and very old (over a
decade), it will not show bad sectors.  The hardware remaps them
automatically, unless it has run out of spares, in which case it is time
to get the data off the drive ASAP and discontinue use of the drive.

smart utilities to ask the drive for it's status is handy on modern
drives.  smart is a standard used to predict failures on modern
harddisks.

Lennart Sorensen
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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:16:51 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:16:51 -0400
Subject: OT: High speed scanner
Message-ID: <000501c394e3$4a162c40$0301a8c0@ACE1>

Hi all. Does anyone know where I could buy a high-speed scanner (in the
40-60+ PPM range) for about $600-$900US? I have been trying to get some
on eBay for days, but keep getting out-bided at the last second.
 
Thanks,
 
Sidney
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 19:18:50 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 15:18:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <20031017190658.GK20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170837400.17001@ns.istop.com> <20031017190658.GK20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310171517350.30150@ns.istop.com>


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:41:23AM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> > In the broadest sense the 1MM is ADSL, but it's not standard ADSL.
> > Standard ADSL = G.992 AKA G.DMT (an ITU standard).  It uses discrete
> > multi-tone at layer1 and ATM at layer2.  The nortel 1MM uses CAP at layer1
> > and (I believe) ethernet at layer2.
>
> What is G.lite that many ADSL modems mention?

Like G.DMT, but synch rate is limited to 1.5mbps/512kbps.

-Ralph
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 22:09:31 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:09:31 -0400
Subject: dsl modem
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170841280.17001-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162109120.25346@ns.istop.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310170109020.19407-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <20031017063054.5fec9063.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170841280.17001@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F90689B.4080106@rogers.com>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:

>>Ralph, do we have to call you that if we sign up, 'cause I'm sorry, but
>>I have serious issues with that... ;-)
> 
> 
> No, just don't call me Shirley. ;-)
Shirley, you can be Frank with me.  ;-)

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 22:15:27 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:15:27 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <20031017183140.GA550-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F3F90.4020803@rogers.com> <20031017183140.GA550@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <3F9069FF.2040403@rogers.com>

William Park wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 09:02:08PM -0400, James Knott wrote:
> 
>>William Park wrote:
>>
>>>What is conventional wisdom when you encounter bad sectors on harddisk?
>>
>>If the disk is reporting bad spots, it means it's used all the spare 
>>sectors and it's not long for this world.  In other words, go get a new 
>>drive and copy everything over, while you still can.
> 
> 
> How do you recover a file which contains a bad sector?
> 
> I haven't been doing backups as frequently as I used to.  And, there is
> a file that has 1 month of new data. :-/  I can un-delete a file using
> 'debugfs'.  But, I haven't come across any utility which will go to work
> on a file with a bad sector.  Even partial recovery would be fine.
> 

I guess you missed that TLUG meeting a couple of months back, about the 
data recovery service.  One point they made, was that they make an image 
of the drive and work with that, so they won't risk damaging it.


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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 22:35:07 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:35:07 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <3F9069FF.2040403-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F3F90.4020803@rogers.com> <20031017183140.GA550@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F9069FF.2040403@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031017223507.GA1189@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 06:15:27PM -0400, James Knott wrote:
> >How do you recover a file which contains a bad sector?
> >
> >I haven't been doing backups as frequently as I used to.  And, there is
> >a file that has 1 month of new data. :-/  I can un-delete a file using
> >'debugfs'.  But, I haven't come across any utility which will go to work
> >on a file with a bad sector.  Even partial recovery would be fine.
> >
> 
> I guess you missed that TLUG meeting a couple of months back, about the 
> data recovery service.  One point they made, was that they make an image 
> of the drive and work with that, so they won't risk damaging it.

I've missed that one.  In any case, as last resort, I did
    badblock -b 4096 -o bad -n /dev/hdb1
    e2fsck -b 4096000 -l bad -cv /dev/hdb1
where 4096000 is the last superblock of partition.

The file seems to be recovered.  It diff's correctly with the old backed
up file, and it has correct number of lines since last backup.  I have
no idea why using different superblock would make difference.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 01:18:21 2003
From: linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org (ln @post.com)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:18:21 -0500
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
Message-ID: <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com>

Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...

actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.
 
 
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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 01:31:56 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:31:56 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
In-Reply-To: <3F7030E8.239E070F-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162137500.22328@epoch.cs>
 <3F7030E8.239E070F@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310172115190.16779@epoch.cs>

Okay, so GAIM does work, but it took a while for me to figure it out.
Here's what I've learned....

1. You MUST upgrade to the 0.71 release.  Previous versions use an older
MSN protocol which will not work.

2. You MUST install the NSS and NSPR packages, which are from the Mozilla
project.

I'm back online on MSN now.

the brief and somewhat unhelpful GAIM faq:
http://gaim.sourceforge.net/faq.php

It says that you need SSL.  Unfortunately it uses the wrapped version from
the Mozilla project, not the openssl library; hence needing NSS and NSPR.


For those of you interested, a brif summary of my experience below:


For NSS, they have binary packages for the 2.4 and 2.2 kernels.  I believe
they are statically linked, so they don't have any more dependenciess.
However, I could not find any binary NSPR packages.  NSPR is included in
the NSS source package, so I decided to just download and build both from
source.

I'm on a RH8 base distro, with most of the original libraries removed
and replaced with custom compiled releases of them from source.  So I
guess Chris might have a harder time with this, if his machine is older
and slower.

Here's the NSS download page:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/security/nss/releases/
Here's the NSS build instructions:
http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/pki/nss/buildnss_331.html
nevermind the different version numbers.  go ahead and grab the latest.
The instructions work the same.

After you build NSS from source, the "make install" directive appears to
do nothing, though you will see lots of console output scroll by.  The
built binaries are in the: ./mozilla/dist directory of the source tree.

I made a directory: /opt/nss-3.8, and copied everything from the
./Linux2.4_x86_glibc directory into there.  I also copied everything from
the ./public directory into /opt/nss-3.8/include.  Very imortant: all of
the files in this "distro" directory are symbolic links.  You should do a
copy using "cp -L", to copy the link target, not just the link.

I then added /opt/nss-3.8/lib to my ld.so.conf file.

Since I already came this far building NSS, I decided to build GAIM from
source as well.  However, GAIM relies on pkg-config for finding NSS and
NSPR, and the source distro for NSS/NSPR does not include a .pc file for
you.  But that's okay, you just have to give more command options to the
./configure script.  I used:

./configure --prefix=/home/jingsu --with-nss-includes=/opt/nss-3.8/include
--with-nss-libs=/opt/nss-3.8/lib
--with-nspr-includes=/opt/nss-3.8/include/
--with-nspr-libs=/opt/nss-3.8/lib/

In the output, when it is done configuring, make sure the SSL option shows
NSS or Mozilla or something.  You need this because the new MSN protocol
requires SSL (NSS wraps SSL) to authenticate and sign in.

Finally, do a 'make' and 'make install'.

Everything should work!

If anyone comes up with an easier way of doing this, please share!


--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 17 18:36:49 2003
From: Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Carola Koitz)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:36:49 +0200
Subject: Mail Dupes?
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>



JoeHill wrote:
> Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> e-mails *constantly*?
> 
> I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> various sources and lists. 
> 
> I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.
> 

I am a newbie to this list and a sympatico subscriber.
I get a lot of duplicate copies also but only from the list.

The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 05:56:14 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:14 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>


I was told by Sympatico that the email servers were bogged down by rampant
email viruses, causing,
essentially an indirect  DOS attack.

This in addition to their port 25 filtering, is one reason I try and stay
away from Sympatico, it at all posssible.

Sending email is the problem.
But there are other Silly Sympatico Systemic SMTP Symptoms.


telnet smtp1.sympatico.ca 25
Trying 209.226.175.80...
Connected to smtp1.sympatico.ca.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 tomts33-srv.bellnexxia.net ESMTP server (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05
201-253-122-130-105-20030824) ready Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:47:16 -0400


Who the heck makes InterMail? Is that the email server?

As you can see, if you ping smtp1.sympatico.ca repeatly, you get different
ips, 80/81/82...

smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
smtp28.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
smtp28.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
smtp28.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
smtp26.bellglobal.com   internet address = 209.226.175.80
smtp26.bellglobal.com   internet address = 209.226.175.81
smtp26.bellglobal.com   internet address = 209.226.175.82
smtp12.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
smtp12.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
smtp12.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
smtp29.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
smtp29.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
smtp29.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
>



----- Original Message -----
From: "Carola Koitz" <Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2003 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Mail Dupes?


>
>
> JoeHill wrote:
> > Anyone else here on Sympatico notice they're getting duplicate copies of
> > e-mails *constantly*?
> >
> > I'll get several copies of the same mail, over a period of days, from
> > various sources and lists.
> >
> > I seriously am getting sick of Sympatico.
> >
>
> I am a newbie to this list and a sympatico subscriber.
> I get a lot of duplicate copies also but only from the list.
>
> The Toronto Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 10:33:59 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:33:59 +0200 (IST)
Subject: A model of IP and patent sharing from commercial entities
 to produce free and open standards
In-Reply-To: <20031017185431.GH20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162205100.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031016213618.GG20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170006050.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031017185431.GH20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310181225330.716@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 12:08:25AM +0200, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > M$, $ony, $amsung, ... all the usual culprits. Expect their pda's phones
> > and other devices not to be compatible ... and think twice before buying ?
>
> Microsoft is there, as is Nokia, Ericson, Alcatel, along with some of the
> companies that make the web software for many cellphones.

Funny they were not in the list when I looked ? (the list with in the imm
page).  Apropos being there does not seem to be a guaratee adherence to
the standards. Did you try to run a w3c html validator against m$ wizard
generated html code ? F.ex. Opera is a member and I use the Opera browser
but the Opera browser has some trouble with some sites generated for (by)
m$ tools. Yet you say M$ is also a member ... so it can ambrace and extend
the standards better ?

Just as an aside, I discovered that my WAP phone does not render the <hr>
tag and freezes with a page error (unspecified - no floating point unit in
this phone apparently - M$ mobile exploder) but the xml wml renderer in
the Opera browser renders it just fine. My cell provider's web/wml proxy
renders <hr> as '----' which means it knows about this. And this is just
the tip of the iceberg. I will try out a Nokia and Samsung phone later.

Peter
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 06:38:09 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 02:38:09 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310172115190.16779-RRbLuHh/gKY@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net> <3F7030E8.239E070F@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310172115190.16779@epoch.cs>
Message-ID: <200310180238.10618.marc@lijour.net>

Looks like some pre-packaged binaries exist:
< http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gaim/gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1.i586.rpm?download>
 

Le Vendredi 17 Octobre 2003 21:31, Jing Su a ?crit :
> Okay, so GAIM does work, but it took a while for me to figure it out.
> Here's what I've learned....
>
> 1. You MUST upgrade to the 0.71 release.  Previous versions use an older
> MSN protocol which will not work.
>
> 2. You MUST install the NSS and NSPR packages, which are from the Mozilla
> project.
>
> I'm back online on MSN now.
>
> the brief and somewhat unhelpful GAIM faq:
> http://gaim.sourceforge.net/faq.php
>
> It says that you need SSL.  Unfortunately it uses the wrapped version from
> the Mozilla project, not the openssl library; hence needing NSS and NSPR.
>
>
> For those of you interested, a brif summary of my experience below:
>
>
> For NSS, they have binary packages for the 2.4 and 2.2 kernels.  I believe
> they are statically linked, so they don't have any more dependenciess.
> However, I could not find any binary NSPR packages.  NSPR is included in
> the NSS source package, so I decided to just download and build both from
> source.
>
> I'm on a RH8 base distro, with most of the original libraries removed
> and replaced with custom compiled releases of them from source.  So I
> guess Chris might have a harder time with this, if his machine is older
> and slower.
>
> Here's the NSS download page:
> http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/security/nss/releases/
> Here's the NSS build instructions:
> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/security/pki/nss/buildnss_331.html
> nevermind the different version numbers.  go ahead and grab the latest.
> The instructions work the same.
>
> After you build NSS from source, the "make install" directive appears to
> do nothing, though you will see lots of console output scroll by.  The
> built binaries are in the: ./mozilla/dist directory of the source tree.
>
> I made a directory: /opt/nss-3.8, and copied everything from the
> ./Linux2.4_x86_glibc directory into there.  I also copied everything from
> the ./public directory into /opt/nss-3.8/include.  Very imortant: all of
> the files in this "distro" directory are symbolic links.  You should do a
> copy using "cp -L", to copy the link target, not just the link.
>
> I then added /opt/nss-3.8/lib to my ld.so.conf file.
>
> Since I already came this far building NSS, I decided to build GAIM from
> source as well.  However, GAIM relies on pkg-config for finding NSS and
> NSPR, and the source distro for NSS/NSPR does not include a .pc file for
> you.  But that's okay, you just have to give more command options to the
> ./configure script.  I used:
>
> ./configure --prefix=/home/jingsu --with-nss-includes=/opt/nss-3.8/include
> --with-nss-libs=/opt/nss-3.8/lib
> --with-nspr-includes=/opt/nss-3.8/include/
> --with-nspr-libs=/opt/nss-3.8/lib/
>
> In the output, when it is done configuring, make sure the SSL option shows
> NSS or Mozilla or something.  You need this because the new MSN protocol
> requires SSL (NSS wraps SSL) to authenticate and sign in.
>
> Finally, do a 'make' and 'make install'.
>
> Everything should work!
>
> If anyone comes up with an easier way of doing this, please share!
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 12:11:35 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:11:35 -0400
Subject: Duplicated Sympatico emails
Message-ID: <200310180811.35154.fraser@wehave.net>

Was skeptical about this one till now but just got email from a cron job
3 times today (sent via Sympatico server), here are log entries from my postfix:

Oct 17 22:35:02 shieldaig postfix/smtp[9472]: 823329F3: to=<fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>,
relay=smtp1.sympatico.ca[209.226.175.81], delay=619, status=deferred (conversati
on with smtp1.sympatico.ca[209.226.175.81] timed out while sending end of data -
- message may be sent more than once)

Oct 17 23:02:01 shieldaig postfix/smtp[10849]: 823329F3: to=<fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>,
 relay=smtp1.sympatico.ca[209.226.175.81], delay=2238, status=sent (250 Message
received: 20031018030156.GBUG5147.tomts31-srv.bellnexxia.net-AAi/R+4n306+l9Osf+KsGeTW4wlIGRCZ at public.gmane.org)

So I sent it to them twice, they sent it to me 3 times.  I also just received
an email that spent almost 4 days on their stupid servers before finally being
relayed to me:

Received: from tomts18-srv.bellnexxia.net (tomts18.bellnexxia.net [209.226.175.72])
	by stornaway.wehave.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60D576BC
	for <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:25:32 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from shieldaig.wehave.net ([65.95.80.175])
          by tomts34-srv.bellnexxia.net
          (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP
          id <20031014123527.PDPK17747.tomts34-srv.bellnexxia.net-AAi/R+4n306+l9Osf+KsGeTW4wlIGRCZ at public.gmane.org>
          for <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>; Tue, 14 Oct 2003 08:35:27 -0400
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 09:48:25 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:48:25 +0200 (IST)
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161846490.2728-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com>
 <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F18A8.4020807@rogers.com>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170033460.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161846490.2728@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310181145020.716@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
>
> > into rom. To stay on topic, what (fpga) will Linux be running on by then ?
>
> I don't see any smileys here, so I'm going to assume you're serious.
> If you are serious, you don't have a clue.  All of windows will never fit
> in rom, and even kernel.exe is a squeeze.  The linux kernel already can be
> run from flash (linuxbios.org).  FPGA = field programmable gate array, and
> it's a totally different beast than ROM or flash.

I used fpga in a jocular sense. As in 'M$ replaces cpu with proprietary
silicon locking all others out of the platform'. I have used flash-ed and
eprom-ed linux since 1998 or 99, with just kernel + 1 application 3M are
enough, sometimes only 2M are needed. I know the difference between rom,
flash and eprom pretty well. Thank you for the conclusion though.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 10:25:06 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 12:25:06 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Troubles with MD5SUM
In-Reply-To: <3F9032F7.9070802-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F8F61B6.6010800@passport.ca> <3F8FC929.9000101@rogers.com>
 <3F9032F7.9070802@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310181223471.716@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Jim Ruxton wrote:
> I thought the whole idea of md5sum was to verify the "actual" file you
> were using

No, only its contents. md5sum does not look at the date, the permissions,
the block size etc. It's the difference between checking the contents of
two bottles being identical as opposed to the bottles proper being
identical.

Peter
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 03:53:07 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:53:07 -0400
Subject: Sympatico Mail Dupes?
In-Reply-To: Message from "cybervoyager" <cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Fri, 17 Oct 2003 12:50:13 EDT." <011c01c394ce$bc640070$01043141-ZK5pCpJID5Y@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20031017160728.68330.qmail@web21007.mail.yahoo.com>  <011c01c394ce$bc640070$01043141@alpha>
Message-ID: <20031018035308.4FFF642FD@cbbrowne.com>

> Yes I had the same thing happening back then.. getting tons of
> duplicate = emails, so it seems by everyones comments on this list,
> that this is not something new with = sympatico.=20 I totally forgot
> about it, until I started hearing about it on this list = again. Never
> did figure out why it was occuring, but obviously Sympatico has not
> fixed the = problem, if this has been an ongoing issue for over two
> years.

That makes things make more sense.

I had an "rmdups" script as part of my "pull mail into my mailbox"
regimen, and had more or less forgotten that I had been receiving a fair
number of duplicates.  Over about the last week, the duplicates have
been getting more spread out in time, with the result that they often
make it into subfolders before I notice duplication.
--
output = ("aa454" "@" "freenet.carleton.ca")
http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/sap.html
Rules of the Evil Overlord #116.  "If I capture the hero's starship, I
will keep it in  the landing bay with the ramp down,  only a few token
guards on  duty and a ton  of explosives set to  go off as  soon as it
clears the blast-range." <http://www.eviloverlord.com/>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 09:50:09 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:50:09 +0200 (IST)
Subject: dupped messages
In-Reply-To: <1066345246.6417.16.camel-Tk/TtsB/rErDOqzlkpFKJg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310162328440.943@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> 
 <1066344548.6417.4.camel@linux.local> <1066345246.6417.16.camel@linux.local>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310181149150.716@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Thu, 16 Oct 2003, Jason Shein wrote:

> The other message I seem to get is
>
> Error while performing operation:
> Could not connect to smtp1.sympatico.ca (port 25): Interrupted system
> call

A SMTP application or server should be advanced enough to be able to
handle an interrupted system call and flag it as a timeout if appropriate
?!

Peter
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 12:50:05 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 08:50:05 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:14 EDT."
             <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org> 
References: <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <20031018125006.F03B643E0@cbbrowne.com>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:56:14 EDT, the world broke into rejoicing as
"Teddy Mills" <teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org>  said:
> I was told by Sympatico that the email servers were bogged down by rampant
> email viruses, causing, essentially an indirect  DOS attack.

That's a remarkably honest answer.

> telnet smtp1.sympatico.ca 25
> Trying 209.226.175.80...
> Connected to smtp1.sympatico.ca.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 tomts33-srv.bellnexxia.net ESMTP server (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05
> 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) ready Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:47:16 -0400
> 
> Who the heck makes InterMail? Is that the email server?

Yes, that's the mail server; it is sold by "software.com" who were
bought out by "OpenWave."

> As you can see, if you ping smtp1.sympatico.ca repeatly, you get different
> ips, 80/81/82...
> 
> smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
> smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
> smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
> smtp28.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
> smtp28.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
> smtp28.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
> smtp26.bellglobal.com   internet address = 209.226.175.80
> smtp26.bellglobal.com   internet address = 209.226.175.81
> smtp26.bellglobal.com   internet address = 209.226.175.82
> smtp12.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
> smtp12.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
> smtp12.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
> smtp29.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.80
> smtp29.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
> smtp29.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82

This is also not remarkable, nor is it an indication of
incompetence.  Apparently they have a whole bunch of mail
servers, and you "round robin" against them in some fashion.
Seems a sensible thing to me...

For all that they are stunningly less-than-the-best, the
things you are pointing at are not evidences of this.
--
select 'aa454' || '@' || 'freenet.carleton.ca';
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/sap.html
"It's a pretty rare beginner who isn't clueless.  If beginners weren't
clueless, the infamous Unix learning cliff wouldn't be a problem."
-- david parsons
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 13:46:04 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:46:04 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca> <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <200310180946.04675.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 18 October 2003 01:56, Teddy Mills wrote:

> I was told by Sympatico that the email servers were bogged down by rampant
> email viruses, causing,
> essentially an indirect  DOS attack.

I don't doubt it one bit.  Yesterday I received 276 viruses, the day before 335 it's
been 200+ viruses per day for over a month.  Now my viruses aren't coming through
Sympatico's servers but still I can imagine that 40+MB of email for every user
would be an enormous problem, I rather doubt their email architecture was meant
to handle that.  If they do virus scanning the resource requirements must be
huge.

I wonder how ISPs are going to deal with this? I feel the house of cards (Windows)
is getting close to falling down.  ISPs have to take serious action (disabling
connections of customers with infections) otherwise the nightmare will just get
worse.

> This in addition to their port 25 filtering, is one reason I try and stay
> away from Sympatico, it at all posssible.

Personally I think it's irresponsible for a residential ISP to not block smtp.
Now whether they actually have monitoring in place to take advantage
of their capabilities for stopping spam and virus spread is another question.

> Sending email is the problem.
> But there are other Silly Sympatico Systemic SMTP Symptoms.
>
>
> telnet smtp1.sympatico.ca 25
> Trying 209.226.175.80...
> Connected to smtp1.sympatico.ca.
> Escape character is '^]'.
> 220 tomts33-srv.bellnexxia.net ESMTP server (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05
> 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) ready Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:47:16 -0400
>
>
> Who the heck makes InterMail? Is that the email server?

Dunno, I agree not using postfix seems silly though ;-)

> As you can see, if you ping smtp1.sympatico.ca repeatly, you get different
> ips, 80/81/82...
>
> smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
> smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82

This is fine, I'd be *very* worried if they did not have multiple servers,
unfortunately they might be needing more.

The quickest solution will be the day that someone writes a virus to
destroy all the Windows systems on the Internet, sadly it will destroy
countless businesses but at least the rest of us will be able to use the
Internet in peace (although we'll be very busy converting everyone to
unix and other real operating systems).  I am convinced that this is
going to happen.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From anjan_chhetry-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 13:51:47 2003
From: anjan_chhetry-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anjan Chhetry)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:51:47 -0400
Subject: unsuscribe please
Message-ID: <Law12-F104eO925B76W0002fa02@hotmail.com>




>From: Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sympatico smtp
>Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:46:04 -0400
>
>On Saturday 18 October 2003 01:56, Teddy Mills wrote:
>
> > I was told by Sympatico that the email servers were bogged down by 
>rampant
> > email viruses, causing,
> > essentially an indirect  DOS attack.
>
>I don't doubt it one bit.  Yesterday I received 276 viruses, the day before 
>335 it's
>been 200+ viruses per day for over a month.  Now my viruses aren't coming 
>through
>Sympatico's servers but still I can imagine that 40+MB of email for every 
>user
>would be an enormous problem, I rather doubt their email architecture was 
>meant
>to handle that.  If they do virus scanning the resource requirements must 
>be
>huge.
>
>I wonder how ISPs are going to deal with this? I feel the house of cards 
>(Windows)
>is getting close to falling down.  ISPs have to take serious action 
>(disabling
>connections of customers with infections) otherwise the nightmare will just 
>get
>worse.
>
> > This in addition to their port 25 filtering, is one reason I try and 
>stay
> > away from Sympatico, it at all posssible.
>
>Personally I think it's irresponsible for a residential ISP to not block 
>smtp.
>Now whether they actually have monitoring in place to take advantage
>of their capabilities for stopping spam and virus spread is another 
>question.
>
> > Sending email is the problem.
> > But there are other Silly Sympatico Systemic SMTP Symptoms.
> >
> >
> > telnet smtp1.sympatico.ca 25
> > Trying 209.226.175.80...
> > Connected to smtp1.sympatico.ca.
> > Escape character is '^]'.
> > 220 tomts33-srv.bellnexxia.net ESMTP server (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05
> > 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) ready Sat, 18 Oct 2003 01:47:16 -0400
> >
> >
> > Who the heck makes InterMail? Is that the email server?
>
>Dunno, I agree not using postfix seems silly though ;-)
>
> > As you can see, if you ping smtp1.sympatico.ca repeatly, you get 
>different
> > ips, 80/81/82...
> >
> > smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.81
> > smtp27.sympatico.ca     internet address = 209.226.175.82
>
>This is fine, I'd be *very* worried if they did not have multiple servers,
>unfortunately they might be needing more.
>
>The quickest solution will be the day that someone writes a virus to
>destroy all the Windows systems on the Internet, sadly it will destroy
>countless businesses but at least the rest of us will be able to use the
>Internet in peace (although we'll be very busy converting everyone to
>unix and other real operating systems).  I am convinced that this is
>going to happen.
>
>--
>Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
>Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux
>
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 13:54:46 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:54:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <200310180946.04675.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>
 <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper> <200310180946.04675.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310180948210.11750@ns.istop.com>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> > This in addition to their port 25 filtering, is one reason I try and stay
> > away from Sympatico, it at all posssible.
>
> Personally I think it's irresponsible for a residential ISP to not block smtp.

Personally I think it's irrational for someone to make generalizations
like this.  IStop.com doesn't block any ports, and the majority of our
customers are residential.  With >2000 customers we encounter an issue of
customer spamming less than once a week.

-Ralph
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 14:10:34 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:10:34 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <200310180946.04675.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>
	<000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>
	<200310180946.04675.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031018101034.18f157bc.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:46:04 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> The quickest solution will be the day that someone writes a virus to
> destroy all the Windows systems on the Internet, sadly it will destroy
> countless businesses but at least the rest of us will be able to use
> the Internet in peace (although we'll be very busy converting everyone
> to unix and other real operating systems).  I am convinced that this
> is going to happen.

Watch out, I got slapped for that one big time ;-)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing is as simple as it seems at first
	Or as hopeless as it seems in the middle
		Or as finished as it seems in the end.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 14:15:16 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:15:16 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <200310180946.04675.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>
	<000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>
	<200310180946.04675.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031018101516.79b10e3b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:46:04 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > This in addition to their port 25 filtering, is one reason I try and
> > stay away from Sympatico, it at all posssible.
> 
> Personally I think it's irresponsible for a residential ISP to not
> block smtp. Now whether they actually have monitoring in place to take
> advantage of their capabilities for stopping spam and virus spread is
> another question.

But what about those of us who want to run our own mail servers and are
willing to take the time to learn how to be responsible and secure in
doing so? This is one of the reasons I want to switch, so that I can
run my own servers and learn by *doing*.

I think a certain amount of balance could be achieved by a cooperative
relationship between the ISP and the client, insofar as an agreement
like:

"Yes, we will allow you to run this server, but three strikes and yer
out."

Combine this with knowledgeable support on the part of the ISP and
I really think you would have win-win situation.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the
palpably
not true.  It is the chief occupation of mankind.
		-- H.L. Mencken
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 14:15:02 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:15:02 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310180948210.11750-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca> <200310180946.04675.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310180948210.11750@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310181015.02108.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 18 October 2003 09:54, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> > > This in addition to their port 25 filtering, is one reason I try and
> > > stay away from Sympatico, it at all posssible.
> >
> > Personally I think it's irresponsible for a residential ISP to not block
> > smtp.
>
> Personally I think it's irrational for someone to make generalizations
> like this.  IStop.com doesn't block any ports, and the majority of our
> customers are residential.  With >2000 customers we encounter an issue of
> customer spamming less than once a week.

Yeah I went a little overboard there, I've been trying to get my virus load
down since yesterday and it's really starting to drive me nuts.  Still I don't
think the average user has the need to send email directly through smtp
servers other than those of their ISP.

I would say that granting exceptions to customers who need it is a good
idea (though perhaps not easy to implement).  For example I do a lot of
network testing and monitoring, having to ssh into the office to test smtp
is annoying.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 14:18:51 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:18:51 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161846490.2728-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com> <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F18A8.4020807@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170033460.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161846490.2728@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031018141851.GA6537@m433>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 06:50:37PM -0400, Ralph Doncaster wrote
> On Fri, 17 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> 
> > into rom. To stay on topic, what (fpga) will Linux be running on by then ?
> 
> I don't see any smileys here, so I'm going to assume you're serious.
> If you are serious, you don't have a clue.  All of windows will
> never fit in rom, and even kernel.exe is a squeeze.

  OK, step into a time machine (gedanken experiment), and go back 10
years to 1993.  Tell computer-literate people about 512 megs or even 1
gig of *RAM* available on machines from the corner computer store.  And
if you really wanted a one-way ticket to the funny farm, tell them about
*VIDEO CARDS* with 128 megs of RAM.  Who says the ROM has to be just a
few hundred K ?

  Actually, Palladium (or whatever nom-du-jour MS has given it today)
only needs the hardware to checksum/check-signature of the boot-code
(roughly equivalant to vmlinuz in /boot).  The boot code would then
check the rest of the OS before loading it.  The OS would in turn check
all files (including programs) before loading them.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 14:19:04 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:19:04 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca> <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <200310181019.04377.fraser@wehave.net>

On Saturday 18 October 2003 01:56, Teddy Mills wrote:

> I was told by Sympatico that the email servers were bogged down by rampant
> email viruses, causing,
> essentially an indirect  DOS attack.

Nice to hear of honesty from the tech support people.  There's an article in the
Toronto Star about it this morning, it's online as well:

    http://www.thestar.ca/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1066428608410&call_pageid=968350072197&col=969048863851

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 15:02:40 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 18:02:40 +0300
Subject: Sympatico smtp
Message-ID: <BAY99-F68ZGdOZofu4500001468@hotmail.com>

It is like saying because there are car accidents no one is allowed to drive 
his/her car. Ride the TTC or company chartered buses! That would have save 
the government lots of money and headache as well :-)

EK


>From: JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sympatico smtp
>Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:15:16 -0400
>
>On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 09:46:04 -0400
>Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > > This in addition to their port 25 filtering, is one reason I try and
> > > stay away from Sympatico, it at all posssible.
> >
> > Personally I think it's irresponsible for a residential ISP to not
> > block smtp. Now whether they actually have monitoring in place to take
> > advantage of their capabilities for stopping spam and virus spread is
> > another question.
>
>But what about those of us who want to run our own mail servers and are
>willing to take the time to learn how to be responsible and secure in
>doing so? This is one of the reasons I want to switch, so that I can
>run my own servers and learn by *doing*.
>
>I think a certain amount of balance could be achieved by a cooperative
>relationship between the ISP and the client, insofar as an agreement
>like:
>
>"Yes, we will allow you to run this server, but three strikes and yer
>out."
>
>Combine this with knowledgeable support on the part of the ISP and
>I really think you would have win-win situation.
>
>--
>JoeHill
>Registered Linux user #282046
>Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>The most costly of all follies is to believe passionately in the
>palpably
>not true.  It is the chief occupation of mankind.
>		-- H.L. Mencken
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 14:54:30 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:54:30 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <200310181019.04377.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>
	<000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>
	<200310181019.04377.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031018105430.6592455c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:19:04 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> > I was told by Sympatico that the email servers were bogged down by
> > rampant email viruses, causing,
> > essentially an indirect  DOS attack.
> 
> Nice to hear of honesty from the tech support people.  There's an
> article in the Toronto Star about it this morning, it's online as
> well:

This article is missing one very important point, of course:

mentioning that Microsoft Windows is the *primary* operating system
responsible for this avalanche of garbage.

The journalist points out only in passing that computer users should
keep their systems up to date with "the latest Microsoft Windows
security patches", never once identifying that there might be other
alternatives. What about Mac users? What about Linux users? Nary a word.

I sent a brief note highlighting this point to the author, I think it
would be nice if more people did this, at least to increase the chances
of the relevant info getting out there in publications such as the Star.

Thanks for the link!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Remember, Grasshopper, falling down 1000 stairs begins by tripping over
the first one.
		-- Confusion
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 15:23:54 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 11:23:54 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <200310181015.02108.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310180946.04675.fraser@wehave.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310180948210.11750@ns.istop.com>
	<200310181015.02108.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031018112354.1139ee52.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 10:15:02 -0400
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Yeah I went a little overboard there, I've been trying to get my virus
> load down since yesterday and it's really starting to drive me nuts. 
> Still I don't think the average user has the need to send email
> directly through smtp servers other than those of their ISP.

I can really highly recommend looking into Mailfilter. It could
significantly reduce the amount of junk you download from your mail
server, esp if you know RegExp with any familiarity (which I don't, but
was able to snag some good snippets from the mailling list), since it
deletes the offending mail right off the server before Procmail or
Postfix even has to deal with it.

http://mailfilter.sourceforge.net/

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
	"It's today!" said Piglet.
	"My favorite day," said Pooh.
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 18:07:11 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:07:11 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <20031018101516.79b10e3b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>
 <000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper> <200310180946.04675.fraser@wehave.net>
 <20031018101516.79b10e3b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310181405570.18808@ns.istop.com>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> "Yes, we will allow you to run this server, but three strikes and yer
> out."

Our current practice comes from the saying "Fool me once, shame on you,
fool me twice, shame on me".

-Ralph

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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 19:41:38 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:41:38 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A934B@lynchmail.lynch.msft>

I would sure like to know why sympatico is having so much trouble and why we haven't heard about others having the same problem.

Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Ralph Doncaster [mailto:ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2003 2:07 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Sympatico smtp

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> "Yes, we will allow you to run this server, but three strikes and yer
> out."

Our current practice comes from the saying "Fool me once, shame on you,
fool me twice, shame on me".

-Ralph

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 20:10:46 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (aacton)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:10:46 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310181521450.32362-100000-phKd+DpA3E7v+jA/tZBGeEEOCMrvLtNR@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310181521450.32362-100000@redshift.mimosa.com>
Message-ID: <1066507844.2257.16.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Sat, 2003-10-18 at 15:25, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> Can you give us a blurb about your contributions?  I'm sure TLUG
> members would like to know about local developments.

Sure, I'd be glad to.

I've been a Mandrake developer for about two years.  I started when the
organization was very 'corporate', i.e. the company decided everything,
and we sent them contributions, and they accepted them or not.  I was
part of the 'big turn over' last year, when about half the staff was
laid off, and the development model had to be redesigned.  Mandrake went
from 25% volunteer to about 75% volunteer in those two years, and it's
working very well.  See the new community wiki for details:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/wiki

I'm now the maintainer of most scientific and audio/video production
applications in Mandrake, as well as some extra GTK/GNOME2 stuff.  You
can see a list of my work at:
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/MandrakeLinux?topic=AustinActon

At present, I'm working on two personal projects:
1. FreeChem, a live-CD of scientific software, mostly chemistry/biochem
related stuff, that runs from a CD
2. FreeJam, a live-CD of audio production software that runs from a CD

Both are Mandrake based, but run live, from a CD, so that Windows users
can try them out without repartitioning or similar annoyances.  Neither
are endorsed or supported by Mandrake in any way... they are my own
creations.  FreeChem will be ready this week, and FreeJam should be
ready in a month or so.  I hope to do a video editing CD soon as well.

I'll be giving out copies of FreeChem at the Seneca Open Source
Symposium this Friday:
http://cs.senecac.on.ca/sos2/
as I'm a part-time chemistry professor at the Seneca at York campus.

Other than that, it's very cool to be a new member of TLUG.  I've never
attended a meeting, but I hope to in their near future.

Austin



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 20:04:37 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:04:37 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A934B-49iW0tF5bQXl9+zcyUE9hx1TMoFmMu2o@public.gmane.org>
References: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A934B@lynchmail.lynch.msft>
Message-ID: <20031018160437.27c6b714.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 15:41:38 -0400
"Wil McGilvery" <wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I would sure like to know why sympatico is having so much trouble and
> why we haven't heard about others having the same problem.

1. Bigger target
2. Bigger bureaucracy
3. Incredibly stupid techs

I used to work for Bell, and my wife still does. I can definitely vouch
for all that info. The only reason we've stayed with Sympatico so long
is that, due to employee discounts, we were getting it for 25 bucks a
month. They are now upping that to 30, so there is really no reason for
us to stay, and a lot of reasons to leave.

The *only* good thing I have to say about Sympatico is the DL speed,
which is now 2Mb, and the connectivity, which I don't recall ever
failing once, at least not in the past year or so. Not even a blip.

But this e-mail thing is getting to be a huge pain, and I want a static
IP.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The truth is rarely pure, and never simple.
		-- Oscar Wilde
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 20:54:37 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 16:54:37 -0400
Subject: Sympatico smtp
In-Reply-To: <20031018105430.6592455c.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016025032.0f54e0ae.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<3F9036C1.20905@sympatico.ca>	<000b01c3953c$8aa4fa30$0a01a8c0@viper>	<200310181019.04377.fraser@wehave.net> <20031018105430.6592455c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F91A88D.60201@rogers.com>

JoeHill wrote:

> This article is missing one very important point, of course:
> 
> mentioning that Microsoft Windows is the *primary* operating system
> responsible for this avalanche of garbage.
> 
> The journalist points out only in passing that computer users should
> keep their systems up to date with "the latest Microsoft Windows
> security patches", never once identifying that there might be other
> alternatives. What about Mac users? What about Linux users? Nary a word.

Maybe he assumes they'll also get the latest MS security patches.  ;-

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 19 04:06:38 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 00:06:38 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of 
"the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios, 
dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak, 
the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often 
envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO 
UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.





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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 18 23:39:24 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:39:24 -0400
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <1066507844.2257.16.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310181521450.32362-100000@redshift.mimosa.com> <1066507844.2257.16.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <200310181939.25687.marc@lijour.net>

Le Samedi 18 Octobre 2003 16:10, aacton a ?crit :
> On Sat, 2003-10-18 at 15:25, D. Hugh Redelmeier wrote:
> > Can you give us a blurb about your contributions?  I'm sure TLUG
> > members would like to know about local developments.
>
> Sure, I'd be glad to.
>
> I've been a Mandrake developer for about two years.  I started when the
> organization was very 'corporate', i.e. the company decided everything,
> and we sent them contributions, and they accepted them or not.  I was
> part of the 'big turn over' last year, when about half the staff was
> laid off, and the development model had to be redesigned.  Mandrake went
> from 25% volunteer to about 75% volunteer in those two years, and it's
> working very well.  See the new community wiki for details:
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/wiki
>
> I'm now the maintainer of most scientific and audio/video production
> applications in Mandrake, as well as some extra GTK/GNOME2 stuff.  You
> can see a list of my work at:
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/MandrakeLinux?topic=AustinAc
>ton
>
> At present, I'm working on two personal projects:
> 1. FreeChem, a live-CD of scientific software, mostly chemistry/biochem
> related stuff, that runs from a CD
> 2. FreeJam, a live-CD of audio production software that runs from a CD
>
> Both are Mandrake based, but run live, from a CD, so that Windows users
> can try them out without repartitioning or similar annoyances.  Neither
> are endorsed or supported by Mandrake in any way... they are my own
> creations.  FreeChem will be ready this week, and FreeJam should be
> ready in a month or so.  I hope to do a video editing CD soon as well.
>
> I'll be giving out copies of FreeChem at the Seneca Open Source
> Symposium this Friday:
> http://cs.senecac.on.ca/sos2/
> as I'm a part-time chemistry professor at the Seneca at York campus.
>
> Other than that, it's very cool to be a new member of TLUG.  I've never
> attended a meeting, but I hope to in their near future.
>
> Austin

I recompiled gaim-.71 from source in my new Mandrake 9.2.
Interested by the rpm? (nothing original though)


>
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 19 19:52:51 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:52:51 -0400
Subject: gaim: protocol not supported
In-Reply-To: <3F71742D.A1A7C16A-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F700EBF.44611AF2@onlink.net> <200310180238.10618.marc@lijour.net> <3F71742D.A1A7C16A@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <200310191552.52927.marc@lijour.net>

Le Mercredi 24 Septembre 2003 06:38, Chris Aitken a ?crit :
> "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" wrote:
> > Looks like some pre-packaged binaries exist:
> > <
> > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/gaim/gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1.i586.rpm?downlo
> >ad>
>
> Thanks - doesn't look like my system will support it:

Sorry, but there are others for RH versions (2 different versions), at the 
same address.

> [root at p166 chris]# rpm -U /home/chris/gaim-0.71*.rpm
> error: failed dependencies:
>  gtk+2.0 >= 2.0.0 is needed by
>  gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libnss3 is needed by gaim-0.7
> 1-1mdk9.1
>  libaspell.so.15   is needed b
> y gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libfontconfig.so.1   is neede
> d by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libgcc_s.so.1   is needed by
> gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libgtkspell.so.0   is needed
> by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libpspell.so.15   is needed b
> y gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libstdc++.so.5   is needed by
>  gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libXft.so.2   is needed by ga
> im-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libXrandr.so.2   is needed by
>  gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  perl-base >= 2:5.8.0 is neede
> d by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>  libc.so.6(GLIBC_2.3)   is nee
> ded by gaim-0.71-1mdk9.1
>
> Chris
>
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 19 19:55:11 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 15:55:11 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F92EC1F.2040508@rogers.com>

Justin Zygmont wrote:
> it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of 
> "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios, 
> dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak, 
> the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often 
> envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO 
> UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.

So, it finally cashed in it's chips.  ;-)




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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 19 20:25:13 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 22:25:13 +0200 (IST)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310192217340.1450@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of
> "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios,
> dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak,
> the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often
> envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO
> UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.

3 of its bereaved brothers in my cupboard and my 386/dx Compaq Aero laptop
(which is still used for embedded development) becry the loss of one of
their own. I still keep the memory and the CPU of the first XT I owned (an
AMD8088-10 - all my 386s are AMDs too) in the junkbox.

Peter

PS: I thought the list was dead on Sundays. You surprised me.
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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 19 20:52:23 2003
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 16:52:23 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F92C147.5809.141FA48B@localhost>

What a melancholy epitaph....

And &^*&(^* to James Knott for beating me to the punch line :-)

Paul

> it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of 
> "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios, 
> dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak, 
> the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often 
> envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO 
> UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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=========================================================
Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 19 12:57:08 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 08:57:08 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F928A24.4090304@rogers.com>

Justin Zygmont wrote:
> it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of 
> "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios, 
> dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak, 
> the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often 
> envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO 
> UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.

So, it finally cashed in it's chips.  ;-)



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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 00:13:46 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 2003 20:13:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310192217340.1450-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310192217340.1450@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310192010570.1095-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I had some of my favourite games that would only run on a 386 procesor 
too, I wonder if bochs would run it but probably not.


On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> 
> On Sun, 19 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
> > it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of
> > "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios,
> > dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak,
> > the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often
> > envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO
> > UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.
> 
> 3 of its bereaved brothers in my cupboard and my 386/dx Compaq Aero laptop
> (which is still used for embedded development) becry the loss of one of
> their own. I still keep the memory and the CPU of the first XT I owned (an
> AMD8088-10 - all my 386s are AMDs too) in the junkbox.
> 
> Peter
> 
> PS: I thought the list was dead on Sundays. You surprised me.
> --
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From drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 08:56:37 2003
From: drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org (Andrew G. Hammond)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 04:56:37 -0400
Subject: Mulithoming..
In-Reply-To: <200310141351.19315.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310131441.52153.jerome@gmanmi.tv> <200310130744.20001.fraser@wehave.net> <200310141351.19315.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <3F93A345.2090608@xyzzy.dhs.org>

Briefly, yes. Assuming that the "routers" listed below are either real 
routers or some kind of firewalling solution, it would also be 
reasonably secure. The question "why do it" comes to mind. The only 
thing I can think of is a local admin network or some kind of VPN 
trickery, which actually makes sense.

Drew


JM wrote:

>On Monday 13 October 2003 19:44, Fraser Campbell wrote:
>  
>
>>On Monday 13 October 2003 02:41, JM wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>I have box with 1 NIC using a Global IP.  I was wondering is it possible
>>>to using multihoming wherein that same NIC will be assigned an internal
>>>IP?
>>>      
>>>
>>I don't see why not.  Of course the IP won't be globally routable so why do
>>it?
>>    
>>
>
>ill be placing in a new server w/c will be used as a database server which i 
>dont want it to have a global IP.
>
>this is my current disected network structure..
>
>LAN --switch1--router1 ---modem1------------(LOCAL LOOP)---------------modem2 
>--router2--switch2--myboxes
>
>switch2 is owned by the datacenter... without adding any boxes or NIC card or 
>etc would it possible to add private IPs on myboxes using the same interface 
>card w/c is currently used for public IP?
>
>would IP aliasing do the trick?
>
>eth0 = GLOBAL_IP
>eth0:0 = 192.168.8.1
>
>  
>
>>>if yes? what are the things to be considered? do the application need to
>>>be multihomed capable? are there any security implications on this?
>>>      
>>>
>>Why do it at all?  What applications will be listening, if you can tell us
>>the intention perhaps we can give you some more/better advice ...
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
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>  
>

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 15:23:25 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:23:25 -0400
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
Message-ID: <200310201123.25751.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

I have received over 1,200 copies of this virus since Wednesday morning.  
Ignoring, or just filtering, is not an option.

Yesterday I wrote a few perl and shell scripts to find out who sent the email 
and automatically complains to their ISP.

I was a bit worried that sending 1,200 complaint letters out might get me in 
trouble with a few people but I've had nothing but positive feedback.  3 or 4 
people have lost their Internet connectivity as a result of my email, several 
virus sources have been found and corrected.

I've had quite a few personal letters of thanks from admins around the world 
and of course floods of autoreplies from abuse departments.  I've also found 
out that a lot of people don't have very well setup email systems (no abuse@ 
or even postmaster at aliases).  An interesting one is that Sympatico has an MX 
records for qc.sympatico.ca but doesn't actually accept any email there.  
I'll be following up to all the crappy mail admins with additional emails.

If anyone else is having a problem with this and is interested in my scripts 
just say the word.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 15:32:35 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:32:35 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <20031018011821.64421.qmail-O5WfVfzUwx8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com>
Message-ID: <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:18:21PM -0500, ln @post.com wrote:
> Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
> 
> actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.

How do you/they define a kernel guru?

Lennart Sorensen
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From emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 15:43:04 2003
From: emir-rdkfGonbjUTTQjIoRn/dzw at public.gmane.org (Emir)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:43:04 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <20031020153235.GO20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com> <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F940288.5080902@codemonkeys.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 20/10/2003 11:32, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
| How do you/they define a kernel guru?

Kernel gurus wear simple white cotton robes and sit atop a high desolate
mountain, contemplating the future of corn in the automotive industry.

If you stump the guru, you win eternal life.

If, after carefully reading and rereading this post it still makes no sense,
you're still among the sane.  Just like Wonko, only your name is not Wonko
(most probably).

It's Monday.  Give it up.
- --
Emir.

"In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us:
~ 'Make us your slaves, but feed us.'"         -- Fyodor Dostoevsky
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/lAKIuSy542G+Z7QRApPjAJ4xb3uyGcV6mH09O/pVJfBGSb6BgACdGYX4
jkvxe/extRAfwqevqCCCZ6A=
=TcXA
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 15:45:13 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:45:13 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <20031020153235.GO20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com> <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031020154513.GA370@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 11:32:35AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:18:21PM -0500, ln @post.com wrote:
> > Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
> > 
> > actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.
> 
> How do you/they define a kernel guru?

Someone who can rewrite the kernel scheduler, rewrite harddisk drivers,
and, most of all, rewrite this insane console/terminal code.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 15:49:32 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 11:49:32 -0400
Subject: Simulation of human brain
Message-ID: <20031020114932.B1153@ee.ryerson.ca>


Of course, this simulation of the human brain is done with a linux cluster.

http://www.ad.com/press/sept132003.html

I can't wait to get one of these things so it can do my thinking for me and
I can relax.

Peter
-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 12:22:54 2003
From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:22:54 +0000
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <20031020154513.GA370-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com> <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031020154513.GA370@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <200310201226.03359.tlug@deeptown.org>

On October 20, 2003 03:45 pm, William Park wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 11:32:35AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:18:21PM -0500, ln @post.com wrote:
> > > Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
> > >
> > > actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.
> >
> > How do you/they define a kernel guru?
>
> Someone who can rewrite the kernel scheduler, rewrite harddisk drivers,
> and, most of all, rewrite this insane console/terminal code.

   It's a not a rocket science. It not necessary to rebuild a scheduler
( 'cause Ingo Molnar made it best =), but harddisk drivers and 
console/terminal code not too hard to rewrite =)

I just amusing by network layer code, because it very good, but have some
weird code I want to see fixed =)

All the Best!
Serge.
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 16:27:12 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:27:12 -0400
Subject: Bad sectors on harddisk (question)
In-Reply-To: <20031017223507.GA1189-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016225927.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F3F90.4020803@rogers.com> <20031017183140.GA550@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F9069FF.2040403@rogers.com> <20031017223507.GA1189@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031020162712.GP20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 06:35:07PM -0400, William Park wrote:
> I've missed that one.  In any case, as last resort, I did
>     badblock -b 4096 -o bad -n /dev/hdb1
>     e2fsck -b 4096000 -l bad -cv /dev/hdb1
> where 4096000 is the last superblock of partition.
> 
> The file seems to be recovered.  It diff's correctly with the old backed
> up file, and it has correct number of lines since last backup.  I have
> no idea why using different superblock would make difference.

One was broken?

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 16:34:34 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:34:34 -0400
Subject: pure microshit
In-Reply-To: <20031018141851.GA6537-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F66QmWoL6xHRc0000bfa1@hotmail.com> <20031016203619.GA334@node1.opengeometry.net> <3F8F18A8.4020807@rogers.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310170033460.7130@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310161846490.2728@ns.istop.com> <20031018141851.GA6537@m433>
Message-ID: <20031020163434.GQ20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sat, Oct 18, 2003 at 10:18:51AM -0400, Walter Dnes wrote:
>   OK, step into a time machine (gedanken experiment), and go back 10
> years to 1993.  Tell computer-literate people about 512 megs or even 1
> gig of *RAM* available on machines from the corner computer store.  And
> if you really wanted a one-way ticket to the funny farm, tell them about
> *VIDEO CARDS* with 128 megs of RAM.  Who says the ROM has to be just a
> few hundred K ?
> 
>   Actually, Palladium (or whatever nom-du-jour MS has given it today)
> only needs the hardware to checksum/check-signature of the boot-code
> (roughly equivalant to vmlinuz in /boot).  The boot code would then
> check the rest of the OS before loading it.  The OS would in turn check
> all files (including programs) before loading them.

So when someone cracks the way to sign MS's boot loader, all BIOS's will
need to be updated along with the boot loader? :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 16:36:15 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:36:15 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:06:38AM -0400, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of 
> "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios, 
> dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak, 
> the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often 
> envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO 
> UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.

I never admired the 386SX, only the DX.  Chopping of half the data bus
of a a poor defenseless 386 just seemed cruel, all to satisfy the
marketing weenies. :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 16:58:21 2003
From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:58:21 -0400
Subject: has anyone had experience with these guys?
Message-ID: <20031020165142.B3BC4BA9E1@outbox.allstream.net>

http://www.sub500.com/
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 17:13:59 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:13:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <20031020163615.GR20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201312320.8158@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:06:38AM -0400, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of
> > "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios,
> > dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak,
> > the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often
> > envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO
> > UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.
>
> I never admired the 386SX, only the DX.  Chopping of half the data bus
> of a a poor defenseless 386 just seemed cruel, all to satisfy the
> marketing weenies. :)

They were pin-compatible with late model 286s which meant they could get
them to market quickly (by shoving them in 286 boards & makign sure the
board didn't collapse under the higher clockspeed :)  I'm not sure if
anyone actually upgraded a 286 to a 386SX (ie, replacing the chip) but it
was supposed to be possible.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 17:19:18 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:19:18 -0400
Subject: Single drive versus RAID1
Message-ID: <002201c3972e$4bf011a0$0a01a8c0@viper>


(FYI: these notes were made by Teddy for Teddy. Dont worry, im not crazy,
just eccentric :)

I made these notes to myself to remind myseld the ramifications and
resolutions involved in
moving my Linux server around to different ADSL providers and locations,
AFTER
websites and email start being put on my server.  The more important
discussion im thinking now,
is the Single drive vs RAID1 pros and cons at the bottom. Im just looking
for opinions of those that
have travelled this path before me, so I dont paint myself into a corner.


Software:
Linux Redhat 9 running Samba, qmail, dns, apache, virtualhosting, rp-pppoe
Driveimage Pro 2002 (CD and 2 boot floppies)

Hardware:
Dell web100 1U server
       2, 9GB SCSI Quantum drives (SCSI ID=0 and ID=1)
       IDE connector (not used)
       Adaptec 29160 adapter

Alcatel Speed Touch Home ADSL
3.0MB ADSL line





Teddys Notes

DELL WEB100 running Teddys Linux RH9 System

I can always use DriveImage Pro to image the SCSI drives onto other SCSI
drives or even IDEs.
So i am not tied to the SCSI or IDE drives. If I driveimage it to a larger
drive there is no
way to make the system smaller. Its just like that 50s Blob movie, everytime
I move it to a
larger drive, the system gets larger permanently.

We can move the Dell upto Mississaga in a while, but write some scripts to
make the ADSL transfer
easy and automatic. There are only about 5 hard coded ips in the system.

The DriveImage Pro is very handy in that the system boots up immediately
after a new DriveImage.
The fact that the boot device is SCSI ID=0 or 1 does not matter. It boots up
on either drive, even
the kernel and all systems load correctly. This is so much easier that IDEs.

Juat be sure when your doing the DriveImaging, to get the right
source/target drive correct, otherwise
you'll lose all changed data from the last driveimage. Put labels on the
drives ID=0 ID=1




WEBSITE/HTML MIGRATIONS

Websites are easy to move anywhere, assuming relative paths are used, no
hard coded ips.
If there are hardcoded URLs or IPs, then it is a lot of editing. However if
I tell future
web designers to use only relative paths and NOT URLS and NO DNS (or DNS?)
in their HTML,
and use the local DNS server, it should be very easy to migrate all
websites.


QMAIL EMAIL MIGRATIONS

Email is tightly integrated into the system. The email is basically bonded
to that computer
for as long as the email accounts are used. It is possible to sever the
email accounts, and
start fresh, but that is unprofessional. That means if you move providers,
you must also move
the computer. Well, so be more exact, you must move the drives. Linux can be
dropped into most
any compatible pc and work.



BIND 922 DNS

Changing DNS means changing IPs and providers.
changing all website domains nameservers and wait for propogation
changing Apache httpd.conf
changing named.conf
email essentially wont be bothered much.



Single drive systems
==============

Single drive Pros:
============
only wasting the rpms of a single drive.
The backup is ready to go without wasting any rpms, wear and tear.
Downtime is only a few minutes if I am there.


Single Drive Cons:
============
ALL DATA IS LOST FROM THE TIME OF THE LAST DRIVEIMAGE COPY.
FIRETEST CHECKLIST ON SECONDARY TO ENSURE RECOVERY WHEN PRIMARY FAILS.
TERTIARY SPARE MUST ALSO BE DONE TO ENSURE RECOVERY
When the drive fails, everything comes down, until the spare is engaged.
If I am not there, downtime could be hours.
Requires that the system be on a single drive. no drive spanning allowed.






RAID1 MIRROR

Raid 1 Pros
========:
saves me from having to do manual driveimage copies


Raid1 Cons:
========
wastes the rpms and double the wear and tear (2 drives spinning)
does nothing to prevent me (root) or users from deleting huge amounts of
data
and raid does nothing to prevent data loss, thus all raids require tapes
this means tape backup procedures must be done to ensure recovery
requires a tape backup unit (no space in the 1U server, it will have to be
external expensive SCSI LVD?)




=====================================================
ADSL PERFORMANCE
=====================================================

=====================================================
ADSL REDUNDANCY
=====================================================


=====================================================
ADSL REDUNDANCY-RAIDS AND MIRRORING
=====================================================


"You can't kill zombie processes because they're ALREADY DEAD!" (banging on
the desk)


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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 17:29:21 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 13:29:21 -0400
Subject: could not allocate partition
In-Reply-To: <3F720247.E4AE6B18-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F720247.E4AE6B18@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201328180.18249@epoch.cs>

is this an otherwise blank drive?
are you running out of primary partitions?
have you tried making an extended partition and putting them into the
extended partition as logical partitions?

On Wed, 24 Sep 2003, Chris Aitken wrote:

> I am getting 'could not allocate partition' trying to partition in Disk
> Druid while installing rh 7.3. No other explanation. It's reportig 10
> GB free space - yet it gives me the error every time I try to create the
> /home directory. The best it will accept is a / and a swap. But I want
> to keep a seperate /home partition this time.
>
> I could partition with pqmagict.exe as I have in the past, but I am
> nervous about using third-party utilities - I suspect some of my past
> partitioning woes have been due to pqmagict. Besides, the version of
> pqmagict I have will only format the partition with ext2, not ext3.
>
> Has anyone else run into this?
>
> Chris
>
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 18:45:20 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:45:20 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <20031020154513.GA370-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com>
 <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031020154513.GA370@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020143724.02941990@localhost>

At 11:45 20/10/2003 -0400, William Park wrote:
>On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 11:32:35AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:18:21PM -0500, ln @post.com wrote:
> > > Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
> > >
> > > actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.
> >
> > How do you/they define a kernel guru?
>
>Someone who can rewrite the kernel scheduler, rewrite harddisk drivers,
>and, most of all, rewrite this insane console/terminal code.

... works well under pressure (... we have completely unrealistic 
deadlines), salary commensurate with experience (... we expect 10 years 
C/Unix experience all for $28,000 per year), and able to juggle multiple 
tasks (... we're completely disorganized so we'll have you jumping from one 
thing to the other and blame you when nothing is ever on time or within 
budget).

Sorry, couldn't resist:) I have no specific knowledge of this employer and 
in fact, have no idea who the employer is. Just having a little fun.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 

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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 18:58:42 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:58:42 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020143724.02941990-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com> <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5.2.0.9.0.20031020143724.02941990@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F943062.5080001@rogers.com>

sounds like my last job!

> ... works well under pressure (... we have completely unrealistic 
> deadlines), salary commensurate with experience (... we expect 10 years 
> C/Unix experience all for $28,000 per year), and able to juggle multiple 
> tasks (... we're completely disorganized so we'll have you jumping from 
> one thing to the other and blame you when nothing is ever on time or 
> within budget).
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist:) I have no specific knowledge of this employer 
> and in fact, have no idea who the employer is. Just having a little fun.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis Corporation
> 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
> Toronto, Ontario
> Canada M4N 3P6
> 
> Tel: 416-410-3326
> 
> mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 



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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 19:38:40 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:38:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: has anyone had experience with these guys?
In-Reply-To: <20031020165142.B3BC4BA9E1-pwyU32sTfCqP7boJH+kiu+TW4wlIGRCZ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031020165142.B3BC4BA9E1@outbox.allstream.net>
Message-ID: <3904.216.138.194.32.1066678720.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> http://www.sub500.com/

>From the link content I would say they're just a bunch of scam artists,
not caring about the customer. They sell Lindows and try to make that less
offensive by bundling AV software for a linux machine.

I wouldn't touch 'e, (unless they have a dsl modem handy).
-- 
Keith
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From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 20:02:36 2003
From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:02:36 -0400
Subject: has anyone had experience with these guys?
Message-ID: <20031020200236.SVRW69569.web01-imail.rogers.com@localhost>

Let's not forget the rather shoddy chips found in a few of those advertised machines.
> 
> From: "Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/20 Mon PM 03:38:40 EDT
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: has anyone had experience with these guys?
> 
> 
> > http://www.sub500.com/
> 
> From the link content I would say they're just a bunch of scam artists,
> not caring about the customer. They sell Lindows and try to make that less
> offensive by bundling AV software for a linux machine.
> 
> I wouldn't touch 'e, (unless they have a dsl modem handy).
> -- 
> Keith
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 20:55:45 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 16:55:45 -0400
Subject: Single drive versus RAID1
In-Reply-To: <002201c3972e$4bf011a0$0a01a8c0-dYW4EvVCS7c@public.gmane.org>
References: <002201c3972e$4bf011a0$0a01a8c0@viper>
Message-ID: <3F944BD1.9010300@alteeve.com>

RAID 1 will somewhat (slightly) slow write times but this can be largly 
compensated for by putting each drive on seperate controllers. Read 
times can be as much as (theoretically) doubled because reads can happen 
from either drive. Extra cost in the second drive may or may not be an 
issue. Slight increase in CPU usage if you don't use a dedicated RAID 
controller.

All in all, I don't build a server without at least RAID 1. It is a very 
inexpensive way to maintain up-time in the case of a dive failure but 
you are right, it certainly IS NOT a replacement to tape backups.

If you would like, I have the text from a talk on RAID (and IDE/SCSI) 
that I gave to TLUG some time ago that covers a lot of the pros and cons 
to various RAID levels.

Madison

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:23:18 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:23:18 -0400
Subject: could not allocate partition
References: <3F720247.E4AE6B18@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201328180.18249@epoch.cs>
Message-ID: <3F947C76.F93AAB37@onlink.net>

Jing Su wrote:

> is this an otherwise blank drive?

No - it's a 20 GB drive with 10 GB devoted to windows 98 se and 2000.

>
> are you running out of primary partitions?

Ya. 98 SE has one, 2K as an extended, and swap has one.

>
> have you tried making an extended partition and putting them into the
> extended partition as logical partitions?

Not sure you can do that in Disk druid - I might have to brave fdisk for
that.

Chris

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 21:25:56 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:25:56 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201312320.8158-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201312320.8158@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201723180.4477-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:06:38AM -0400, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > > it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of
> > > "the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios,
> > > dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak,
> > > the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often
> > > envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO
> > > UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.
> >
> > I never admired the 386SX, only the DX.  Chopping of half the data bus
> > of a a poor defenseless 386 just seemed cruel, all to satisfy the
> > marketing weenies. :)
> 
> They were pin-compatible with late model 286s which meant they could get
> them to market quickly (by shoving them in 286 boards & makign sure the
> board didn't collapse under the higher clockspeed :)  I'm not sure if
> anyone actually upgraded a 286 to a 386SX (ie, replacing the chip) but it
> was supposed to be possible.

not very likely, many boards back then weren't even socketed.  sx's were a 
great value for the price.


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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 21:30:58 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 17:30:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020143724.02941990-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020143724.02941990@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201728520.4477-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

well, if it's like most places i've come to know around toronto, 
especially markham, then you're not too far off the mark.  


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:

> At 11:45 20/10/2003 -0400, William Park wrote:
> >On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 11:32:35AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > > On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:18:21PM -0500, ln @post.com wrote:
> > > > Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
> > > >
> > > > actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.
> > >
> > > How do you/they define a kernel guru?
> >
> >Someone who can rewrite the kernel scheduler, rewrite harddisk drivers,
> >and, most of all, rewrite this insane console/terminal code.
> 
> ... works well under pressure (... we have completely unrealistic 
> deadlines), salary commensurate with experience (... we expect 10 years 
> C/Unix experience all for $28,000 per year), and able to juggle multiple 
> tasks (... we're completely disorganized so we'll have you jumping from one 
> thing to the other and blame you when nothing is ever on time or within 
> budget).
> 
> Sorry, couldn't resist:) I have no specific knowledge of this employer and 
> in fact, have no idea who the employer is. Just having a little fun.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Clifford Ilkay
> Dinamis Corporation
> 3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
> Toronto, Ontario
> Canada M4N 3P6
> 
> Tel: 416-410-3326
> 
> mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 19:12:53 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:12:53 +0200 (IST)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <20031020163615.GR20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202108300.595@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> I never admired the 386SX, only the DX.  Chopping of half the data bus
> of a a poor defenseless 386 just seemed cruel, all to satisfy the
> marketing weenies. :)

The payback was in the power budget (embedded, portable), heat (none),
size (smaller board) and price. All this for half the speed. Fyi a 386SX
will run a modern (at least 2.2) kernel just fine in despite of lacking
FPU (yes floating point works in applications using emulation -
transparent to the applications).  I am impressed (even X11 works with
only 8M of RAM on a 386SX/33). Ok, it's slow. So what. I remember
competitions in the 'kernel compile time'. 386SX I do not dare to test,
386DX/40 with 8M does it in ~2 hours.

Peter


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:08:31 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:08:31 +0200 (IST)
Subject: tickling lisp
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202248550.1251@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


I have a problem that stumps me. I need to flatten a list that can be
complex, in tcl. I need to test the head for being a list. I can't ?

It turns out it is *very* hard to make a test in tcl that decides whether
"{a}" and "a" are the same. F.ex. [concat {a}] returns {a} (!!!). Worse,
[llength {a}] == [llength a] = 1. Huh ? a is not a list! I can't do
arithmetics on it either, my variables are pure symbols.

So how please do I find out if it's a list or an atom ?! Or am I missing
something ?

tia ?

Peter
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:03:57 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:03:57 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Single drive versus RAID1
In-Reply-To: <3F944BD1.9010300-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F944BD1.9010300@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201742490.4477-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I also use a software RAID-1 with IDE drives.  I have each drive on a 
seperate controller running rh9.  I noticed that It does run things just 
slightly faster than just using a single drive.


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Madison Kelly wrote:

> RAID 1 will somewhat (slightly) slow write times but this can be largly 
> compensated for by putting each drive on seperate controllers. Read 
> times can be as much as (theoretically) doubled because reads can happen 
> from either drive. Extra cost in the second drive may or may not be an 
> issue. Slight increase in CPU usage if you don't use a dedicated RAID 
> controller.
> 
> All in all, I don't build a server without at least RAID 1. It is a very 
> inexpensive way to maintain up-time in the case of a dive failure but 
> you are right, it certainly IS NOT a replacement to tape backups.
> 
> If you would like, I have the text from a talk on RAID (and IDE/SCSI) 
> that I gave to TLUG some time ago that covers a lot of the pros and cons 
> to various RAID levels.
> 
> Madison
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:15:59 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:15:59 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201723180.4477-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201723180.4477-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201813320.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> > They were pin-compatible with late model 286s which meant they could get
> > them to market quickly (by shoving them in 286 boards & makign sure the
> > board didn't collapse under the higher clockspeed :)  I'm not sure if
> > anyone actually upgraded a 286 to a 386SX (ie, replacing the chip) but it
> > was supposed to be possible.
>
> not very likely, many boards back then weren't even socketed.  sx's were a
> great value for the price.

Hehehe :)  How were the 286s afixed to the board?  Not anything as crude
as solder I hope :)  Thinking back they seemed to be as integrated as any
other component (the 386SX board I had for a while certainly was).

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:22:40 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:22:40 -0400
Subject: Single drive versus RAID1
In-Reply-To: <20031020214940.CZRB61510.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031020214940.CZRB61510.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F946030.1010404@alteeve.com>

Matthew Godycki wrote:
> Hi Madison,
> 
> While I'm fairly familiar with the major RAID configurations (heck, a few years ago when I was a youngin' and used to teach data structures at UofT I even gave my students an intro to RAID) I wouldn't mind having a gander at your text.  It might be interesting to see if maybe I can pick up some extra pros/cons that I haven't yet seen, especially with regard to the more interesting RAID configurations.
> 
> Cheers,
> -Matt

Keep in mind that this is well over a year old document and it probably 
needs some updating but the foundation hasn't changed. Hope you get some 
use out of it.

Madison

  -= See Below =-

  [ IDE and SCSI stuff snipped ]

RAID:

So now you see the basic differences between IDE and SCSI. Well, what 
happens if all the goodness of SCSI just isn?t enough? ?RAID? stands for 
?Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks?. It?s funny to hear that when you 
consider a decent entry-level server with RAID starts around $6,000! You 
need to remember that the term was coined back when disk space was still 
measured in $$/MB.

You don?t technically need SCSI drives to implement RAID; in fact there 
is a trend in the performance home market right now for IDE drives to be 
used in RAID arrays. I wouldn?t recommend it yet for people needing 
high-levels of reliability or processing power though.

So what is a RAID array? Being here you probably have enough interest in 
computers to have heard of RAID but unless you are slightly obsessed 
with hard drive technology you probably haven?t learned much about it. 
RAID has been, and to a large part still is the domain of higher-level 
servers.

RAID describes three main abilities that can be implemented either alone 
or in combination to best fit various scenarios. These features include 
?stripping?, ?mirroring? and ?parity?.

Stripping, known as RAID level 0 or RAID0 is the process of using two or 
more drives for simultaneous writing and reading. When a file is to be 
written to a stripped array the data is divided into chunks and written 
to the drives in the array at the same time. As a loose example you can 
take a 10MB file and write it to a RAID0 array with two drives in 
roughly the time it would normally take to write a 5MB file (twice the 
speed). The same 10MB file could be written to an array with five drives 
in roughly the time it would have taken a 2MB file to be written to a 
single drive (five times as fast). Calculating the actual speed benefits 
isn?t so cut and dry because of other overhead but you get a good idea.

Next up is ?Mirroring? or RAID1. As its name implies, two drives are 
mirror images of one another. If one drive fails the data is safe thanks 
to the second identical drive. The down side is that 50% of the physical 
hard drive space is wasted.

Finally we get to ?Parity?, used in RAID3, 4, 5 and 6 but most popularly 
in RAID5. Remember in math class you asked ?where will I ever use this 
in the real world?? Well my friends, Boolean algebra has allowed us a 
very efficient way to protect data. Lets use a RAID5 array for this 
example but first let me describe a RAID5 array.

In a RAID5 array you need a minimum of 3 disks. The more you add though 
the better performance you gain and the more efficiently you use your 
disk space. The trade off is you need an increasingly more powerful RAID 
controller and that translates to a higher cost. In a RAID5 array 
performance is increased by stripping data across the available drives 
(RAID0). In a RAID0 array though a single disk failure will destroy all 
the data because part of just about every file is on each disk. Parity 
is added in RAID5 to deal with this.

Parity works by taking the data on each disk and using the Boolean ?XOR? 
cumulatively to come up with parity data. This last piece of redundant 
data can be used to rebuild any one piece of missing data in an array 
(one failed drive). For this reason RAID5 is described as making use of 
N-1 disks in the array. In the minimum three drive array we have a 33% 
waste of space (3-1 = 2 effective disks). In a five-disk array we 
increase our efficiency to 20% wasted space (5-1 = 4 effective disks).

The down side to RAID5 is that when a failure occurs read times would 
drop, potentially by a marked amount. This is because for every byte of 
data being requested in a read the RAID controller must first run the 
XOR on the remaining good data plus the parity byte before knowing what 
the missing data is.

I am sure by now that my 20 minutes is almost up, thank you for 
listening to me today and I hope that if this wasn?t too fast or 
confusing and it at least wet your appetite to learn more about hard 
disk technology. I will be doing a presentation at March?s TLUG meeting 
where I will go into much more detail about underlying disk technology 
and how it relates to servers and Linux. If you would like to learn more 
I encourage you to join me then.

Does anyone have any questions?



Thank you all very much for your attention! The paper for this talk will 
be available on my web site as soon as some work is done. At that time 
there will be links that will allow you to study this and other topics 
in greater detail. Good night!



Notes:
  [ Table Snipped (wouldn't format in ASCII) ]

RAID Levels:

Level 0 = Stripping, not a ?true? RAID level because there is no 
redundancy. RAID0 is designed to increase performance by cutting data 
into uniform sized blocks and sequentially writing them to the disks in 
the array. The total capacity (T) is measured by multiplying the numbers 
of disks in the array (x) by the storage capacity of the smallest 
drive(s). T=x*s

Level 1 = Mirroring, the oldest type of RAID. Very popular to it?s ease 
of use and high-reliability. Write times can be slightly diminished 
because of the need to write the data across twice the number of disks 
but a good hardware RAID controller often negates this. Read times are 
quicker; almost double the speed because the data needs to only be read 
from one drive. The performance hit during a failure is minimal and the 
processing power needed to implement RAID1 is small. The main drawback 
is the initial cost to configure because of the inefficient use of disk 
space. RAID1 requires an even number of drives. The total storage 
capacity (T) is measured by multiplying the number of drives in the 
array (x) by the capacity of the smallest drive (s) and dividing by 2. 
T=(x*s)/2

Level 2 = Defined but rarely used because it requires special hard 
drives that manufacturers are reluctant to build. RAID2 splits data at 
the bit level and stripes it across the data disks. For each strip of 
data Hamming ECC data is generated and stored on multiple parity disks. 
The main advantage of RAID2 was its ability to correct single bit errors 
?on the fly? because both the good data and the parity data were read an 
analyzed on every read. This Error Correction Code (ECC) is now a 
standard feature within hard drives, negating most of the benefits of 
RAID2 right there. RAID2 also suffered from modest performance and 
reliability when compared to other RAID levels, particularly when the 
number of disks needed is considered. A standard RAID2 array called for 
10 data disks plus 4 parity disks or 32 data disks plus 7 parity disks.

Level 3 = RAID3 is still used today but isn?t as popular as other 
levels. RAID3 implements striping with parity and uses a dedicated 
parity disk. The data is split into blocks usually smaller than 1024 
bytes allowing it to make efficient use of the stripping ability. The 
downside is RAID3 has a single parity disk, which causes a bottleneck 
when there are many I/O transactions at the same time. RAID3 is best 
suited for environments where redundancy is required and most of the 
disk access involves large file read/writes like you would see creating 
multimedia. Total capacity (T) is measured by multiplying the number of 
drives in the array (x) by the storage capacity of the smallest disk (s) 
minus one. T=(x*s)-1

Level 4 = When they wrote that song ?Stuck in the Middle with You? they 
must have been thinking of RAID4. Like RAID3 and RAID5 it also stripes 
data across disks with parity. Like RAID3 it uses a dedicated parity 
disk that can be a bottleneck but it uses larger data blocks like RAID5. 
The larger data blocks improve the performance when there are a high 
number of simultaneous I/O transactions but makes less efficient use of 
stripping. You can calculate the total storage like you did in RAID3, 
T=(x*s)-1

Level 5 = Perhaps the most popular RAID level used when both performance 
and reliability is required. RAID5 stripes both data and parity 
information across all the disks in the array removing the bottleneck 
seen in RAID3 and RAID4. It uses larger data blocks than RAID3 making it 
best suited for multiple simultaneous I/O transaction (web server 
anyone?). During a failure the performance will suffer more than if just 
the parity disk failed in a RAID3 or RAID4 array because read/writes 
will require an analysis of parity data to rebuild missing data. Total 
storage capacity is calculated like RAID3 and RAID4, T=(x*s)-1

Level 6 = RAID6 is very similar to RAID5 except that two blocks of 
parity information is recorded allowing the array to survive two 
simultaneous drive failures. This isn?t a popular RAID level though 
because the ability to have hot spares in a RAID5 array means the time 
when the array is vulnerable is very short. With a hot spare in a RAID5 
array you don?t suffer the write performance hit seen it RAID6 where two 
separate parity blocks must be calculated and recorded on each write. 
You can calculate the total capacity of a RAID6 array similar to RAID5 
except you lose two disks to parity information, T=(x*s)-2.

Level 7 = This isn?t a true RAID level in that this RAID level is 
proprietary meaning the controller and standard is owned and controlled 
by one company. They try to solve some of the problems of RAID3 and 
RAID4 but details are sketchy. Not a recommended RAID level.

Combining Levels = Not long after RAID began life did people start 
wondering about combining RAID levels to get the benefits of two levels. 
Before I talk about those levels I want to make a few comments. The 
order in which the RAID levels are noted is important. For example RAID 
10 is not RAID 01. In this example, RAID 10 is an array of stripped 
mirrors as apposed to RAID 01, which is a mirror of stripped arrays. Be 
careful when faced with RAID 53, this can be RAID 03 or even 30, 
depending on it?s implementation.

Level 01 and 10 = In RAID 01 (zero one) two striped arrays of equal size 
are created then data is duplicated (mirrored) on each array. This 
provides good fault tolerance by being able to survive multiple disk 
failures so long as they are on the same array. Performance is also good 
because of the speed benefits of writing to a striped array and the 
speed benefits of reading from a mirrored array.

RAID 10 (one zero, not ten) creates mirrored pairs then stripes the data 
across the pairs. This provides a slightly higher level of reliability 
because the loss of a drive only affects the mirror it belongs to. This 
helps minimize degradation and rebuild time because less data is 
mirrored per set.

Both RAID 01 and RAID 10 have the benefit of redundancy without the 
overhead of parity. Both also require a minimum of four disks and the 
total number must be even. Calculate the total capacity of the array 
like you do in RAID1, T=(x*s)/2.

Level 03 and 30 = (zero three and three zero) Hope you have done your 
mental Yoga; these combinations are probably the most difficult to 
mentally picture.

RAID 03 is built by using stripped sub-arrays in a RAID3 array. In this 
configuration the byte data and parity is stripped across multiple RAID0 
arrays (minimum 3 RAID0 arrays each with a minimum of 2 drives). This 
gives performance levels closer to RAID0 but a little slower because 
parity still needs to be calculated and written. Assuming all the disks 
are the same size the total capacity (T) is measured by calculating the 
capacity of each RAID0 array (ra) and then multiplying the number of 
RAID0 arrays (rb) minus 1, T=ra*(rb-1).

     RAID 30 is just the opposite, stripping data across two or more 
RAID3 sub-arrays. This level is the more popular implementation of 
combining block striping with byte stripping and parity. It provides 
better fault tolerance and performance because each RAID3 sub-array in 
the RAID0 stripe is independently protected. It also makes more sense to 
byte-stripe blocks of data because you are making smaller pieces out of 
larger chunks of data. Assuming again that all the drives in the array 
are the same size you can calculate the total capacity of the array (T) 
by multiplying the number of drives in the RAID3 sub-array (ra) minus 1 
then multiplying the number of sub-arrays in the stripe (rb), T=(ra-1)*rb.

     In both cases RAID 03 and RAID 30 provide the best transfer rates 
but still suffer from bottlenecks when the number of simultaneous I/O 
transactions increase. These configurations are best suited for 
applications where large files are used by a few people (like in 
multimedia) and regular RAID3 isn?t fast enough.

Level 05 and 50 = (zero five and five zero) Apply the differences 
discussed between RAID3 and RAID5 over what was just said about RAID 
03/30 and you have RAID 05/05. The main difference between RAID 03/30 
and RAID 05/50 is that RAID 05/50 increases performance under 
simultaneous I/O transactions by using larger blocks of data and by 
removing the bottleneck of a single parity disk. This makes RAID 05/50 
better suited for use in scenarios where many users are requesting 
simultaneous read/writes to the array and RAID5 alone doesn?t provide 
enough speed. Calculate total capacity as you did in RAID 03/30.

Level 15 and 51 = (one five and five one) It doesn?t get any more 
reliable or inefficient than this! RAID 15/51 is the most reliable 
method of storing data in a single server, combining the raw 
availability of RAID1 mirrors with the performance and reliability 
benefits of RAID5. Realistically if this level of reliability was 
required you would be interested in high availability servers where 
everything, not just the disk array was redundant.


References:

? The ?T10? committee responsible for developing the SCSI standards:
     http://www.t10.org/

? The ?T11? committee responsible for developing the FC, HIPPI and IPI 
standards:
     http://www.t11.org/

? The ?T13? committee responsible for developing the ATA standards:
     http://www.t13.org/

? ?The PC Guide?, by Charles M. Kozierok. THE site on the web for 
double-checking yourself on computer hardware. If he ever reads this, 
?Thanks!?:
     http://www.pcguide.com/

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From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:26:11 2003
From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 15:26:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: copying launchers to another account
In-Reply-To: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031020222611.95309.qmail@web14506.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Has anyooe tried copying launchers (GNOME icons that
> you create) to
> other accounts? I'm finding it tedious recreating
> /sbin/ifup ppp0 and
> other icons everytime I create an account.

Hi. All you have to do is to copy the
/home/source_user/.gnome-desktop/*.desktop files to
/home/destination_user/.gnome-desktop/

Probably you will have to do it as root. In that case,
you have to chmod the files to destination_user to be
able to open them. This is done with
# chmod destination_user
/home/destination_user/.gnome-desktop/*

Bye

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:30:10 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:30:10 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202108300.595-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202108300.595@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201816190.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

> The payback was in the power budget (embedded, portable), heat (none),
> size (smaller board) and price. All this for half the speed. Fyi a 386SX
> will run a modern (at least 2.2) kernel just fine in despite of lacking

It should run any version of Linux as it should look just like a 386DX
to the OS (except maybe for /proc/cpuinfo).

> FPU (yes floating point works in applications using emulation -
> transparent to the applications).  I am impressed (even X11 works with

The FPU emulation is still in the kernel too - I wonder how recently
someone actually used it :)

> only 8M of RAM on a 386SX/33). Ok, it's slow. So what. I remember
> competitions in the 'kernel compile time'. 386SX I do not dare to test,

I heard about someone compiling the kernel on a 386SX-something with <8MB
ram and it taking 24hr or so :)  My 486DX-33 with 4MB ram used to take 2hr
for the 1.0/1.1 kernels.  The time dropped to 1hr when I upgraded to 8MB
:)

Cheers,
	Rob (returning from memory lane ;)

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:34:14 2003
From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:34:14 -0400
Subject: importing contacts to firebird
Message-ID: <3F9462E6.6010506@pcsecurityonline.com>

Anyone know of an easy way to import contacts from Evolution into 
Mozilla Firebird?
Manually doing all the info on over 300 contacts would be a pain in the 
backside...
Firebird can import from LDIF, .tab, .csv, and .txt  while Evolution can 
only save as Vcards. There is no export function built into as far as I 
can see.
 Thanx in advance...

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
       And decide to replace them with something stronger"
(o_
//\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
V_/_                     Jason Shein
      		Linux Registered User #281100
		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org


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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:40:28 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:40:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: tickling lisp
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202248550.1251-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202248550.1251@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031020182610.21397B-100000@spsystems.net>

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> It turns out it is *very* hard to make a test in tcl that decides whether
> "{a}" and "a" are the same.

For all practical purposes, they *are* the same.  Tcl makes no distinction
between an atom and a one-element list.  This program:

	set out [list]		;# an empty list
	foreach x {a {b} c} {
		lappend out $x
	}
	puts "$out"

prints

	a b c

What you care about is whether the sub-list has multiple atoms in it.  To
go arbitrarily deep, you have to distinguish between trivial (length=1)
lists and non-trivial ones, and treat them differently.  So: 

	proc flat {in} {
		set out [list]
		foreach x $in {
			if {[llength $x] > 1} {
				set out [concat $out [flat $x]]
			} else {
				lappend out $x
			}
		}
		return $out
	}
	flat {a {b} {c {d e}} f}

prints

	a b c d e f

Yes, it's a bit weird.  Takes a while to wrap your mind around it.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 22:57:50 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:57:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201813320.12003-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201813320.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201856200.4809-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

the pins were joined to the board, I had to cut them off with a straight 
screwdriver.  And what's interesting is that the chpi would never heat up, 
and was smaller than most cpu's on the whole board:)


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
> > > They were pin-compatible with late model 286s which meant they could get
> > > them to market quickly (by shoving them in 286 boards & makign sure the
> > > board didn't collapse under the higher clockspeed :)  I'm not sure if
> > > anyone actually upgraded a 286 to a 386SX (ie, replacing the chip) but it
> > > was supposed to be possible.
> >
> > not very likely, many boards back then weren't even socketed.  sx's were a
> > great value for the price.
> 
> Hehehe :)  How were the 286s afixed to the board?  Not anything as crude
> as solder I hope :)  Thinking back they seemed to be as integrated as any
> other component (the 386SX board I had for a while certainly was).
> 
> Rob
> 
> 

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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 20 23:31:37 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:31:37 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201856200.4809-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201856200.4809-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F947059.2040205@rogers.com>

You must be very talented,  to be able to cut chip pins with a screwdriver.

Tom

Justin Zygmont wrote:

>the pins were joined to the board, I had to cut them off with a straight 
>screwdriver.  And what's interesting is that the chpi would never heat up, 
>and was smaller than most cpu's on the whole board:)
>  
>

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:12:15 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:12:15 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <3F947059.2040205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F947059.2040205@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310202010450.4944-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

is that some scarcasm coming my way, the board was dead, i had to save my 
favourite processor:)


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Tom Legrady wrote:

> You must be very talented,  to be able to cut chip pins with a screwdriver.
> 
> Tom
> 
> Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
> >the pins were joined to the board, I had to cut them off with a straight 
> >screwdriver.  And what's interesting is that the chpi would never heat up, 
> >and was smaller than most cpu's on the whole board:)
> >  
> >
> 
> --
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:19:03 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:19:03 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
References: <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com> <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F947B77.5010602@sympatico.ca>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:

>On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:18:21PM -0500, ln @post.com wrote:
>  
>
>>Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
>>
>>actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.
>>    
>>
>
>How do you/they define a kernel guru?
>
It's a guru who hasn't quite made it to the rank of genrel yet.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:46:31 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:46:31 -0400
Subject: Simulation of human brain
In-Reply-To: <20031020114932.B1153-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031020114932.B1153@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9481E7.5040700@rogers.com>

Peter Hiscocks wrote:
> Of course, this simulation of the human brain is done with a linux cluster.
> 
> http://www.ad.com/press/sept132003.html
> 
> I can't wait to get one of these things so it can do my thinking for me and
> I can relax.

Unless they've simulated a female brain.  ;-)



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:48:15 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:48:15 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <20031020163615.GR20573-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F94824F.4060104@rogers.com>

Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:06:38AM -0400, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
>>it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of 
>>"the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios, 
>>dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak, 
>>the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often 
>>envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO 
>>UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.
> 
> 
> I never admired the 386SX, only the DX.  Chopping of half the data bus
> of a a poor defenseless 386 just seemed cruel, all to satisfy the
> marketing weenies. :)
Wasn't the reason for that, so that motherboard manufacturer could 
quickly adapt a 286 motherboard to the new chip?


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:50:52 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:50:52 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201312320.8158-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201312320.8158@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F9482EC.6070508@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:06:38AM -0400, Justin Zygmont wrote:
>>
>>>it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of
>>>"the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios,
>>>dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak,
>>>the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often
>>>envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO
>>>UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.
>>
>>I never admired the 386SX, only the DX.  Chopping of half the data bus
>>of a a poor defenseless 386 just seemed cruel, all to satisfy the
>>marketing weenies. :)
> 
> 
> They were pin-compatible with late model 286s which meant they could get
> them to market quickly (by shoving them in 286 boards & makign sure the
> board didn't collapse under the higher clockspeed :)  I'm not sure if
> anyone actually upgraded a 286 to a 386SX (ie, replacing the chip) but it
> was supposed to be possible.

I seem to recall some adapter boards, to fit a 386 into a 286.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:53:43 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:53:43 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20031020143724.02941990-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com> <20031020153235.GO20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <5.2.0.9.0.20031020143724.02941990@localhost>
Message-ID: <3F948397.1010102@rogers.com>

CLIFFORD ILKAY wrote:
> At 11:45 20/10/2003 -0400, William Park wrote:
> 
>> On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 11:32:35AM -0400, Lennart Sorensen wrote:
>> > On Fri, Oct 17, 2003 at 08:18:21PM -0500, ln @post.com wrote:
>> > > Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
>> > >
>> > > actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.
>> >
>> > How do you/they define a kernel guru?
>>
>> Someone who can rewrite the kernel scheduler, rewrite harddisk drivers,
>> and, most of all, rewrite this insane console/terminal code.
> 
> 
> ... works well under pressure (... we have completely unrealistic 
> deadlines), salary commensurate with experience (... we expect 10 years 
> C/Unix experience all for $28,000 per year), and able to juggle multiple 
> tasks (... we're completely disorganized so we'll have you jumping from 
> one thing to the other and blame you when nothing is ever on time or 
> within budget).

You forgot 10 years experience in Java.  ;-)

Don't laugh.  A few years ago, I saw an ad where the employer was 
looking for more years experience than a particular technology had been 
around.  In another ad, they were looking for a recent grad, with 
several years experience!!!



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:58:04 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:58:04 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201856200.4809-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201856200.4809-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F94849C.8000003@rogers.com>

So, they were soldered.

Justin Zygmont wrote:
> the pins were joined to the board, I had to cut them off with a straight 
> screwdriver.  And what's interesting is that the chpi would never heat up, 
> and was smaller than most cpu's on the whole board:)
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:
> 
> 
>>On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>They were pin-compatible with late model 286s which meant they could get
>>>>them to market quickly (by shoving them in 286 boards & makign sure the
>>>>board didn't collapse under the higher clockspeed :)  I'm not sure if
>>>>anyone actually upgraded a 286 to a 386SX (ie, replacing the chip) but it
>>>>was supposed to be possible.
>>>
>>>not very likely, many boards back then weren't even socketed.  sx's were a
>>>great value for the price.
>>
>>Hehehe :)  How were the 286s afixed to the board?  Not anything as crude
>>as solder I hope :)  Thinking back they seemed to be as integrated as any
>>other component (the 386SX board I had for a while certainly was).
>>
>>Rob
>>
>>
> 
> 
> --
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 00:58:44 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 20:58:44 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <3F947059.2040205-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201856200.4809-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <3F947059.2040205@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F9484C4.4080909@rogers.com>

He probably works as a tech at Future Shop.  ;-)


Tom Legrady wrote:
> You must be very talented,  to be able to cut chip pins with a screwdriver.
> 
> Tom
> 
> Justin Zygmont wrote:
> 
>> the pins were joined to the board, I had to cut them off with a 
>> straight screwdriver.  And what's interesting is that the chpi would 
>> never heat up, and was smaller than most cpu's on the whole board:)
>>  
>>
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 01:01:03 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:01:03 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310202010450.4944-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310202010450.4944-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3F94854F.7090707@rogers.com>

But now that you cut it's legs off, it won't run any more.  ;-)


Justin Zygmont wrote:
> is that some scarcasm coming my way, the board was dead, i had to save my 
> favourite processor:)
> 
> 
> On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Tom Legrady wrote:
> 
> 
>>You must be very talented,  to be able to cut chip pins with a screwdriver.
>>
>>Tom
>>
>>Justin Zygmont wrote:
>>
>>
>>>the pins were joined to the board, I had to cut them off with a straight 
>>>screwdriver.  And what's interesting is that the chpi would never heat up, 
>>>and was smaller than most cpu's on the whole board:)
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>>
> 
> 
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 01:02:07 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:02:07 -0400
Subject: Simulation of human brain
In-Reply-To: <3F9481E7.5040700-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>; from james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 08:46:31PM -0400
References: <20031020114932.B1153@ee.ryerson.ca> <3F9481E7.5040700@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031020210207.A3007@ee.ryerson.ca>


Given the social lives of some people who work in this area, I would expect
that simulation of the female brain (and other periferals) would be high on
the to-do-list. And the porn business has always been an early adopter of
new technology, so the funding will be available.

Peter


On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 08:46:31PM -0400, James Knott wrote:
> Peter Hiscocks wrote:
> > Of course, this simulation of the human brain is done with a linux cluster.
> > 
> > http://www.ad.com/press/sept132003.html
> > 
> > I can't wait to get one of these things so it can do my thinking for me and
> > I can relax.
> 
> Unless they've simulated a female brain.  ;-)
> 
> 
> 
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 01:10:50 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:10:50 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F94824F.4060104@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <017401c39770$2b2ce640$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"James Knott" <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 20, 2003 8:48 PM
wrote:

> Lennart Sorensen wrote:
> > On Sun, Oct 19, 2003 at 12:06:38AM -0400, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> >
> >>it's been a sad day today, my 386 just breathed it's last.  In memory of
> >>"the good days" when 100MB drives were monsters, I saved the 386sx bios,
> >>dip chips (ram), and the VLSI chipset.  If only electronics could speak,
> >>the things that motherboard could tell.  An expensive and often
> >>envied CPU in it's hayday, 386sx-16 managed to see MS and DR-DOS, SCO
> >>UNIX, and slackware linux before it's dying day.  386 was almost 14.
> >
> >
> > I never admired the 386SX, only the DX.  Chopping of half the data bus
> > of a a poor defenseless 386 just seemed cruel, all to satisfy the
> > marketing weenies. :)
> Wasn't the reason for that, so that motherboard manufacturer could
> quickly adapt a 286 motherboard to the new chip?

More-or-less, yes. The '386SX internally was a 32 bit CPU, but it talked to
the world as if it were a 16 bit chip (unlike the '386DX chip that was 32
bits inside and out). This meant that many of the (by then) cheap support
chips that had been developed for the '286 chips could be re-used in '386SX
designs.

Me, I bought a '386SX-25  based box, and admittedly it didn't have the speed
of the '386DX, but it did run Windows 3.1 and later Yggdrasil Linux  just
fine.

Colin McGregor

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 01:29:42 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:29:42 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <017401c39770$2b2ce640$4201a8c0-ki0Zr782rhv/m7utMz5sVUHTeQkJkYumVpNB7YpNyf8@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F94824F.4060104@rogers.com> <017401c39770$2b2ce640$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F948C06.1020304@rogers.com>

Colin McGregor wrote:
> "James Knott" <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 20, 2003 8:48 PM

>>Wasn't the reason for that, so that motherboard manufacturer could
>>quickly adapt a 286 motherboard to the new chip?
> 
> 
> More-or-less, yes. The '386SX internally was a 32 bit CPU, but it talked to
> the world as if it were a 16 bit chip (unlike the '386DX chip that was 32
> bits inside and out). This meant that many of the (by then) cheap support
> chips that had been developed for the '286 chips could be re-used in '386SX
> designs.
> 
> Me, I bought a '386SX-25  based box, and admittedly it didn't have the speed
> of the '386DX, but it did run Windows 3.1 and later Yggdrasil Linux  just
> fine.

My 3rd computer was a 386DX-33 & 4 MB.  I soon upgraded to 8 MB and 
later replace the motherboard with a 486DX2-66.  I ran OS/2 on that box 
for almost 10 years.  I still use the keyboard that came with it, with 
my Athlon XP 1700 system.

My 1st computer was an Imasi 8080, with an 8080 CPU and my 2nd was an XT 
clone, in which I replaced the 8088, with a V20.  I currently have 6 or 
so computers hanging around here.  All but one are on the network, 
though not all turned on.  My old 486 nee 386 is out in the breakfast 
nook (read junk storage area <g>).




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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 01:38:28 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:38:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <3F9482EC.6070508-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201312320.8158@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
 <3F9482EC.6070508@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202134090.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, James Knott wrote:

> I seem to recall some adapter boards, to fit a 386 into a 286.

There was even a 486 "overlay" kit which would turn a 286 into a 486[1]. A
friend and I eagerly opened up his old 286 luggable to try the upgrade
with a kit he bad purchased in a "bargain basement" sale (circa 1995) only
to discover he had the wrong type of 286.  Turns out the overlay would
work on the _other_ 2 types of 286 chips that were manufacturered.
*sigh* :)

[1] The first time I wrote this sentence I said it turned a 486 into a
286, which is a much more amusing "upgrade" :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 02:36:22 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:36:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <3F9484C4.4080909-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9484C4.4080909@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310202228230.5301-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I remember this guy I knew was playing around with a brand new 
motherboard. He had it on a metal topped table when he hooked up the power 
and turned it on!  The results were rather amusing.  and if that's not 
enough, he cut himself on the pins sticking out from under the board:)


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, James Knott wrote:

> He probably works as a tech at Future Shop.  ;-)
> 
> 
> Tom Legrady wrote:
> > You must be very talented,  to be able to cut chip pins with a screwdriver.
> > 
> > Tom
> > 
> > Justin Zygmont wrote:
> > 
> >> the pins were joined to the board, I had to cut them off with a 
> >> straight screwdriver.  And what's interesting is that the chpi would 
> >> never heat up, and was smaller than most cpu's on the whole board:)
> >>  
> >>
> > 
> > -- 
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 02:39:32 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:39:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Another timing conflict...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202230360.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

Seen on Usenet:

"The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Tuesday, October 14 at 7:00 pm at
Swiss Chalet on Bloor Street near the St. George subway stup.  The
meeting is free to attend and includes networking time and an open forum
on Linux news.  Feature topic: TIA, Tiny IDE for Anything.

For more information and map, see

http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html"

The GTABUG/TLUG scheduling conflict was just sorted and now this
(apparently) Linux related event was smack bang on top of the last
meeting.  What is going on? :)

Rob

-- 
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Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 03:49:06 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:49:06 -0400
Subject: Another timing conflict...
In-Reply-To: Message from Robert Brockway <robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Mon, 20 Oct 2003 22:39:32 EDT." <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202230360.12003-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202230360.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031021034907.2B1A442FB@cbbrowne.com>

> Seen on Usenet:
> 
> "The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Tuesday, October 14 at 7:00 pm at
> Swiss Chalet on Bloor Street near the St. George subway stup.  The
> meeting is free to attend and includes networking time and an open forum
> on Linux news.  Feature topic: TIA, Tiny IDE for Anything.
> 
> For more information and map, see
> 
> http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html"
> 
> The GTABUG/TLUG scheduling conflict was just sorted and now this
> (apparently) Linux related event was smack bang on top of the last
> meeting.  What is going on? :)

Ken hasn't been sufficiently observant about that.  He shifted things to
last Thursday, but I gather is planning to conflict with GTABUG next
month.
--
select 'aa454' || '@' || 'freenet.carleton.ca';
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/nonrdbms.html
Make sure your code does nothing gracefully.
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From bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 04:01:05 2003
From: bonnie-grKYUO1WUpSaMJb+Lgu22Q at public.gmane.org (misterbonnie)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 23:01:05 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: REQUESTING INTERRUPT ON 6
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.44.0310202300340.11397-100000@pixelated>

m4m3:/# cat motd

#!/bin/party
IRQ6 ===== WEDNESDAY OCTOBER 22 2003
^^^^FUNHAUS 526 QUEEN ST W[formerly zen lounge]

featuring sound by

    \0_   ghettocyb.org ~ cyborg_data_jockey
    /     subrythm      ~ bass-intensive live pa
  _/\     cerebral_itch ~ electro space glitch
 '  /
   '
<3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

visuals by Dr. Rx       \0_
                     ,/\/
                       /
                       \
                        '
~~~~~~~MACHINE SEX ACTION GROUP VIDEOS
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~also

        o 802.11b wireless inter/intranet
        o MAME station
        o 8bit gamez
        o line printer pr0n
        o live stream
           |___ http://compuhistory.org:8000/listen.pls


 # pls c http://asciipr0n.com/irq/

 # [[4 nerds of all disciplines]]
 # BCNU!







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From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 04:07:59 2003
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:07:59 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blackberry 950
Message-ID: <20031021040759.22851.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com>

I purchased the pager in 2000 and stopped the service about a year or
two later.  Now I want to use it again as an appointment book so I got
it out put in a battery and quickly found out that I forgot my
password.  I tried a few and now I only have 3 tries left.

I'd like to completely reset the pager password and all and couldn't
find out how to do that.  Can anyone help me?

=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
--
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 04:25:06 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:25:06 -0400
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <20031018011821.64421.qmail-O5WfVfzUwx8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031018011821.64421.qmail@mail.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031021000725.02375900@mail.interlog.com>

At 08:18 PM 10/17/2003 -0500, "ln @post.com" wrote:
>Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within...
>
>actually, apply to Core Digital here in Toronto.

That might be a neat company for which to work. For those that don't know, 
C.O.R.E. Digital is (AFAIK) a visual effects company. They create the 
visual effects for various television programs and movies (ie. 
computer-based graphics and animation). Their web site is 
http://www.coredp.com/ if you want to know more about them.

I wonder what they are planning which requires tweaking the Linux kernel?


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 11:10:37 2003
From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 04:10:37 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: importing contacts to firebird
In-Reply-To: <3F9462E6.6010506-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9462E6.6010506@pcsecurityonline.com>
Message-ID: <20031021111037.75696.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Jason Shein <jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Anyone know of an easy way to import contacts from
> Evolution into 
> Mozilla Firebird?
> Manually doing all the info on over 300 contacts
> would be a pain in the 
> backside...
> Firebird can import from LDIF, .tab, .csv, and .txt 
> while Evolution can 
> only save as Vcards. There is no export function
> built into as far as I 
> can see.
Did you mean Thunderbird? 
I think the only way to export something in evolution
is as Vcards...

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 12:02:22 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:02:22 -0400
Subject: sad sad sad
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310190006170.27056-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <20031020163615.GR20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <3F94824F.4060104@rogers.com> <017401c39770$2b2ce640$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com> <3F948C06.1020304@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <008a01c397cb$30176260$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"James Knott" <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 20, 2003 9:29 PM
wrote:

> Colin McGregor wrote:
> > "James Knott" <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Monday, October 20, 2003 8:48
PM
>
> >>Wasn't the reason for that, so that motherboard manufacturer could
> >>quickly adapt a 286 motherboard to the new chip?
> >
> >
> > More-or-less, yes. The '386SX internally was a 32 bit CPU, but it talked
to
> > the world as if it were a 16 bit chip (unlike the '386DX chip that was
32
> > bits inside and out). This meant that many of the (by then) cheap
support
> > chips that had been developed for the '286 chips could be re-used in
'386SX
> > designs.
> >
> > Me, I bought a '386SX-25  based box, and admittedly it didn't have the
speed
> > of the '386DX, but it did run Windows 3.1 and later Yggdrasil Linux
just
> > fine.
>
> My 3rd computer was a 386DX-33 & 4 MB.  I soon upgraded to 8 MB and
> later replace the motherboard with a 486DX2-66.  I ran OS/2 on that box
> for almost 10 years.  I still use the keyboard that came with it, with
> my Athlon XP 1700 system.
>
> My 1st computer was an Imasi 8080, with an 8080 CPU and my 2nd was an XT
> clone, in which I replaced the 8088, with a V20.  I currently have 6 or
> so computers hanging around here.  All but one are on the network,
> though not all turned on.  My old 486 nee 386 is out in the breakfast
> nook (read junk storage area <g>).

My first computer was a Commodore 64, then an Amiga 1000 (my 1st PC
compatible (8088 emulation on a 68000 chip, it worked, but it was slow and
UGLY)), then a '286 based PC, then a CP/M based laptop, and then the '386SX.
Of note it wasn't until earlier this year that I got rid of the case that
came with the '386SX box, I just kept replacing the motherboards, in the end
that case had a Pentium II 350 MHz CPU in it. What did that case in at the
end was it's lack of provision for PS/2 style keyboard/mouse ports,
otherwise I would likely have continued to just replace the motherboard (it
was a nice solidly built case).

Colin McGregor

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 12:02:37 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:02:37 -0400
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <200310201123.25751.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310201123.25751.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310210802.37496.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 20 October 2003 11:23, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> If anyone else is having a problem with this and is interested in my
> scripts just say the word.

I had a couple off list requests so I made a few scripts available at
http://www.wehave.net/spam/ ... hopefully someone finds them useable.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 12:28:37 2003
From: pkozlenko-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Paul Kozlenko)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:28:37 -0400
Subject: Blackberry 950
References: <20031021040759.22851.qmail@web40708.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <00c701c397ce$da0ae4b0$2c01a8c0@moon>

I think the 950 is similar to the 957 only smaller. If so.
On the 957 BlackBerry.  If you enter the password wrong 10 times in a row.
It will lock the device and completely wipe out the contents.
The only thing it will allow you to do after that is reload the software and
apps.
If you knew the password, you could reload the software and apps,
but don't tell it to back the old data first - just erase the old.

Hope that helps.
- Paul
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Mel Seder" <melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org>
To: "TLUG" <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 12:07 AM
Subject: [TLUG]: Blackberry 950


> I purchased the pager in 2000 and stopped the service about a year or
> two later.  Now I want to use it again as an appointment book so I got
> it out put in a battery and quickly found out that I forgot my
> password.  I tried a few and now I only have 3 tries left.
>
> I'd like to completely reset the pager password and all and couldn't
> find out how to do that.  Can anyone help me?
>
> =====
> The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him
> absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>


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From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 12:40:10 2003
From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 08:40:10 -0400
Subject: importing contacts to firebird
In-Reply-To: <20031021111037.75696.qmail-Qft47uMIyO+A/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031021111037.75696.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F95292A.70204@pcsecurityonline.com>

Martin C wrote:
> --- Jason Shein <jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>>Anyone know of an easy way to import contacts from
>>Evolution into 
>>Mozilla Firebird?
>>Manually doing all the info on over 300 contacts
>>would be a pain in the 
>>backside...
>>Firebird can import from LDIF, .tab, .csv, and .txt 
>>while Evolution can 
>>only save as Vcards. There is no export function
>>built into as far as I 
>>can see.
> 
> Did you mean Thunderbird? 
> I think the only way to export something in evolution
> is as Vcards...
> 
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
> http://shopping.yahoo.com
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
My apologies, I did mean Thunderbird. Yes, I can export as Vcards, but 
there is no advantage to doing so. Mozilla and Thunderbird both use the 
same formats, and seeing as Mozilla has been around for a while, I am 
surprised that I am unable to find a program or script that will do the 
conversion.

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
(o_
//\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
V_/_                     Jason Shein
       		Linux Registered User #281100
		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 15:07:10 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:07:10 -0400
Subject: importing contacts to firebird
In-Reply-To: <3F95292A.70204-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031021111037.75696.qmail@web14504.mail.yahoo.com> <3F95292A.70204@pcsecurityonline.com>
Message-ID: <3F954B9E.3060607@yahoo.ca>

Jason Shein wrote:

> My apologies, I did mean Thunderbird. Yes, I can export as Vcards, but 
> there is no advantage to doing so. Mozilla and Thunderbird both use the 
> same formats, and seeing as Mozilla has been around for a while, I am 
> surprised that I am unable to find a program or script that will do the 
> conversion.
> 

Jason:

Apparently it's possible, to import the files from Evolution -- at least this 
posting seems to suggest so:

<http://www.joshie.com/projects/dawn/features.html>

It appears to be freeware (although the author has a donation page via paypal).

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve


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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 16:50:15 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:50:15 -0400
Subject: SQL Queries Found!
In-Reply-To: <lv8yo3clwr.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F7C7942.9020601@alteeve.com> <lv8yo3clwr.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <200310211250.16489.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 02 October 2003 18:30, Matthew Rice wrote:
> "Lance F. Squire" <lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> writes:
> > Never mind! I finaly found a document that helped.
> > SQL uses '%' for wild cards rather than '*'
>
> I don't know about MySQL but PostgreSQL has full regular expression support
> on queries.

http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/Pattern_matching.html

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 16:57:17 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 12:57:17 -0400
Subject: Another timing conflict...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202230360.12003-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310202230360.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031021165717.GA277@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Oct 20, 2003 at 10:39:32PM -0400, Robert Brockway wrote:
> Seen on Usenet:
> 
> "The next PegaSoft dinner meeting is Tuesday, October 14 at 7:00 pm at
> Swiss Chalet on Bloor Street near the St. George subway stup.  The
> meeting is free to attend and includes networking time and an open forum
> on Linux news.  Feature topic: TIA, Tiny IDE for Anything.
> 
> For more information and map, see
> 
> http://www.pegasoft.ca/events.html"
> 
> The GTABUG/TLUG scheduling conflict was just sorted and now this
> (apparently) Linux related event was smack bang on top of the last
> meeting.  What is going on? :)

I think it's intentional.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 17:07:11 2003
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Blackberry and Linux
Message-ID: <20031021170711.15938.qmail@web40710.mail.yahoo.com>

The software that backs up and restores the Blackberry data to your
computer is for Windows,  which I rarely run and don't want to run.  Is
there an application that can backup and restore the Blackberry using
linux?


=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 17:10:47 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:10:47 -0400
Subject: 4 port network cards
Message-ID: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

Wondering if anyone has tried the 4 port network card advertised at 
http://www.routerboard.com/ethernet.html ... I saw it in Linux Journal this 
month.  We've been getting *very* high defect rates with the Dlink's 
DFE-580TX.

Thanks,
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 17:23:20 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 13:23:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 4 port network cards
In-Reply-To: <200310211310.47914.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211322550.22258@ns.istop.com>

Why not go with an Intel Pro/1000 and a GigE switch?

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Wondering if anyone has tried the 4 port network card advertised at
> http://www.routerboard.com/ethernet.html ... I saw it in Linux Journal this
> month.  We've been getting *very* high defect rates with the Dlink's
> DFE-580TX.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
> Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
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From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 18:01:25 2003
From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:01:25 -0400
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
Message-ID: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com>

   I'm in the market for one of those not-too-expensive
scanners.  (I notice Future Shop has a sale on one that does
slides for about my top price -- $150.)  Any recommendations
or caveats for what works with Linux?

        Thanks.         Mel.
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From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 18:56:32 2003
From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:56:32 -0400
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
In-Reply-To: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <3F958160.40204@pcsecurityonline.com>

Mel Wilson wrote:
>    I'm in the market for one of those not-too-expensive
> scanners.  (I notice Future Shop has a sale on one that does
> slides for about my top price -- $150.)  Any recommendations
> or caveats for what works with Linux?
> 
>         Thanks.         Mel.
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
Here's all the info.
http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html
http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners.html
http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners-usb.html

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
(o_
//\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
V_/_                     Jason Shein
       		Linux Registered User #281100
		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 16:34:14 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:34:14 +0200 (IST)
Subject: tickling lisp
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031020182610.21397B-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031020182610.21397B-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211831120.543@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Ok, thanks for the foreach idea I had not thought of foreach in this
context. That was the only one I did not try ;-(.

thanks,

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 16:40:42 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:40:42 +0200 (IST)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201813320.12003-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310201723180.4477-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201813320.12003@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211837480.543@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

> > not very likely, many boards back then weren't even socketed.  sx's were a
> > great value for the price.
>
> Hehehe :)  How were the 286s afixed to the board?  Not anything as crude
> as solder I hope :)  Thinking back they seemed to be as integrated as any
> other component (the 386SX board I had for a while certainly was).

The original 286 was always socketed. Only 386SX boards (of the kind I
have) have them soldered on board directly and some have a socket for a
287 fpu. The low cost 386SXs were all smd soldered on board (SMD chip)
and most were from AMD.  Only 386DX came in ceramic pga or soldered (also
SMD).

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 16:48:51 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:48:51 +0200 (IST)
Subject: sad sad sad
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310202228230.5301-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310202228230.5301-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211844370.543@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 20 Oct 2003, Justin Zygmont wrote:

> I remember this guy I knew was playing around with a brand new
> motherboard. He had it on a metal topped table when he hooked up the power
> and turned it on!  The results were rather amusing.  and if that's not
> enough, he cut himself on the pins sticking out from under the board:)

Don't laugh about the pins. There was a time when I'd only handle boards
and chassis wearing industrial work gloves (assembly was not my job!). New
die-punched steel sheet chassis cut like glass and nobody bothers to
de-burr the edges nowadays. SMD boards have less things to make holes in
you with but they are very fragile.  Slide one across a solid table and
you just shaved off a few parts.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 16:50:52 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:50:52 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Linux-kernel guru wanted - apply within
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031021000725.02375900-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <5.2.1.1.0.20031021000725.02375900@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211849420.543@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Kevin Cozens wrote:

> I wonder what they are planning which requires tweaking the Linux kernel?

I don't know what they're planning, maybe optimization, but imho it better
be a guru guru. If they want things like optimizing speed etc that will be
necessary imho.

Peter
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From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 19:04:27 2003
From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:04:27 -0400
Subject: could not allocate partition
In-Reply-To: <3F947C76.F93AAB37-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F947C76.F93AAB37@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCAECJCGAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>

Disk druid will create extended partition just fine.  You have an option to
create a partition as a primary partition, if not selected you get a logical
partition.

Grant Cullen
JADALL Consulting Ltd.
grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
416-706-4447

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of Chris
Aitken
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 20:23
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: could not allocate partition


Jing Su wrote:

> is this an otherwise blank drive?

No - it's a 20 GB drive with 10 GB devoted to windows 98 se and 2000.

>
> are you running out of primary partitions?

Ya. 98 SE has one, 2K as an extended, and swap has one.

>
> have you tried making an extended partition and putting them into the
> extended partition as logical partitions?

Not sure you can do that in Disk druid - I might have to brave fdisk for
that.

Chris

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 19:19:48 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:19:48 -0400
Subject: 4 port network cards
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211322550.22258-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211322550.22258@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310211519.48655.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 21 October 2003 13:23, Ralph Doncaster wrote:

> Why not go with an Intel Pro/1000 and a GigE switch?

GigE is a bit of overkill for a firewall that routes at most 3MB BUT of course 
if it's reasonably priced there's no problem.  I can only find pricing on the 
dual port version (about 230 CDN), do you know the price for a 4port?

I assume this works well with Linux?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 19:25:05 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:25:05 -0400
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
In-Reply-To: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com>
Message-ID: <20031021192505.GV20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 02:01:25PM -0400, Mel Wilson wrote:
>    I'm in the market for one of those not-too-expensive
> scanners.  (I notice Future Shop has a sale on one that does
> slides for about my top price -- $150.)  Any recommendations
> or caveats for what works with Linux?

Epson always works.  Other brands sometimes work.

Epson makes their own scanners and hence use a single command set that
is well documented (you can order the programing manual), which makes
life simple for the developers of sane.

Other brands tend to buy scanners from scanner makers so the command set
varies between models, and most of the actual makers seem pretty
unwilling to disclose the interface commands needed to write good
drivers.

I know what I would buy.

Lennart Sorensen
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 19:31:32 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 15:31:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: 4 port network cards
In-Reply-To: <200310211519.48655.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211322550.22258@ns.istop.com>
 <200310211519.48655.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211528510.16886@ns.istop.com>

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Tuesday 21 October 2003 13:23, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
>
> > Why not go with an Intel Pro/1000 and a GigE switch?
>
> GigE is a bit of overkill for a firewall that routes at most 3MB BUT of course
> if it's reasonably priced there's no problem.  I can only find pricing on the
> dual port version (about 230 CDN), do you know the price for a 4port?
>
> I assume this works well with Linux?

Aha, I thought you were actually using >10mbps.
I was suggesting just a single GigE card anyway (they work fine under
Linux).  Plug it into a managed 24-port GigE switch (~$700) with VLAN
trunking and now you have a Linux box with 24 10/100 ports.

-Ralph

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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 20:02:37 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:02:37 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
In-Reply-To: <3F958160.40204-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com> <3F958160.40204@pcsecurityonline.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211600380.30620@localhost.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

I have an IBM ideascan 2000 for sale if your interested..I never use it
anymore and it's just like new..contaqct me offline if you like..unsure
myself if it works with linux because I've only ever had it connected to a
windows machine.

gbell

 16:00:38  up  4:58,  4 users,  load average: 0.04, 0.01, 0.00

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Jason Shein wrote:

> Mel Wilson wrote:
> >    I'm in the market for one of those not-too-expensive
> > scanners.  (I notice Future Shop has a sale on one that does
> > slides for about my top price -- $150.)  Any recommendations
> > or caveats for what works with Linux?
> >
> >         Thanks.         Mel.
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> Here's all the info.
> http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html
> http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners.html
> http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners-usb.html
>
> --
> " Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
>         And decide to replace them with something stronger"
> (o_
> //\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
> V_/_                     Jason Shein
>        		Linux Registered User #281100
> 		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 20:23:47 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 16:23:47 -0400
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211600380.30620-bi+AKbBUZKa9maL0xdbBOHCyeuMn80S+HqKIO9F4dd1APaQ8jZKOXQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com> <3F958160.40204@pcsecurityonline.com> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211600380.30620@localhost.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031021202347.GW20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 04:02:37PM -0400, gbell72 wrote:
> I have an IBM ideascan 2000 for sale if your interested..I never use it
> anymore and it's just like new..contaqct me offline if you like..unsure
> myself if it works with linux because I've only ever had it connected to a
> windows machine.

The list of supported IBM's sure doesn't look promising at
http://www.sane-project.org

Closest info is tat it is similar to a Primax Colorado 9600 or so, but it
isn't supported either it seems.

Lennart Sorensen
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From adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 22:07:53 2003
From: adb-tlug-AbAJl/g/NLXk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org (Anthony de Boer)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:07:53 -0400
Subject: 4 port network cards
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211322550.22258-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>; from ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org on Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 01:23:20PM -0400
References: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211322550.22258@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031021180753.F10862@leftmind.net>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> Why not go with an Intel Pro/1000 and a GigE switch?

http://puck.nether.net/~jared/gigflapping.mp3

Seriously, I'm not certain if GigE is actually less reliable than 100BT,
if some vendors had early teething problems with it, or if it's just that
it tends to get used for Very Important Links that get more noticed when
they fail.

However, for the quad-NIC issue itself, that may mean Fraser needs a lot
of interfaces, and the way to go nowadays would be with a switch that
does 802.1q VLAN trunking, plus a trunked port into one's Linux box (and
into its redundant spare).  One can have all that at 100M, and that opens
the way to having a thousand or more interfaces if that's what you want
and can afford.

-- 
Anthony de Boer
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 22:00:53 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:00:53 -0400
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
In-Reply-To: <3F958160.40204-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com> <3F958160.40204@pcsecurityonline.com>
Message-ID: <3F95AC95.8090309@rogers.com>

Jason Shein wrote:
> Mel Wilson wrote:
> 
>>    I'm in the market for one of those not-too-expensive
>> scanners.  (I notice Future Shop has a sale on one that does
>> slides for about my top price -- $150.)  Any recommendations
>> or caveats for what works with Linux?
>>
>>         Thanks.         Mel.
>> -- 
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
> Here's all the info.
> http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html
> http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners.html
> http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners-usb.html
> 

I see this one is available at Factory Direct.  Does anyone know 
anything about it?


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 22:15:41 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 18:15:41 -0400
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
In-Reply-To: <3F958160.40204-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com> <3F958160.40204@pcsecurityonline.com>
Message-ID: <3F95B00D.4020002@rogers.com>

Jason Shein wrote:
> Mel Wilson wrote:
> 
>>    I'm in the market for one of those not-too-expensive
>> scanners.  (I notice Future Shop has a sale on one that does
>> slides for about my top price -- $150.)  Any recommendations
>> or caveats for what works with Linux?
>>
>>         Thanks.         Mel.
>> -- 
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>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> Here's all the info.
> http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html
> http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners.html
> http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners-usb.html
> 

I see this one is available at Factory Direct.  Does anyone know 
anything about it?

http://www.factorydirect.ca/cgi-bin/product_spec.pl/MU1203

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 23:11:52 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:11:52 -0400
Subject: 4 port network cards
In-Reply-To: <200310211519.48655.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310211322550.22258@ns.istop.com> <200310211519.48655.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F95BD38.9010403@alteeve.com>

Intel has a nice Quad-Port gigabit NIC here:
http://www.intel.com/network/connectivity/products/pro1000mt_quad_server_adapter.htm

I can have it for you in a day or two for $691.07 (+tax), three year 
warranty. It is a 64bit PCI card but it will work okay in a standard 
32bit PCI slot. Fully Linux compatible :).

Madison

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 October 2003 13:23, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> 
> 
>>Why not go with an Intel Pro/1000 and a GigE switch?
> 
> 
> GigE is a bit of overkill for a firewall that routes at most 3MB BUT of course 
> if it's reasonably priced there's no problem.  I can only find pricing on the 
> dual port version (about 230 CDN), do you know the price for a 4port?
> 
> I assume this works well with Linux?
> 

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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 23:41:58 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Moniz)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 19:41:58 -0400
Subject: Naughty Royal Bank
Message-ID: <3F95C446.3050000@sympatico.ca>

I don't know if anyone has seen this. I already gave shit to my local 
banker. Unfortunately, he didn't have a clue what I was talking about, 
but I did register my displeasure.

John.

http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=53813



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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 00:35:10 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:35:10 -0400
Subject: 4 port network cards
In-Reply-To: <3F95BD38.9010403-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net> <200310211519.48655.fraser@wehave.net> <3F95BD38.9010403@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310212035.10982.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 21 October 2003 19:11, Madison Kelly wrote:

> I can have it for you in a day or two for $691.07 (+tax), three year
> warranty. It is a 64bit PCI card but it will work okay in a standard
> 32bit PCI slot. Fully Linux compatible :).

Ouch.  The 4port dlinks are under $300 (granted only 100Mb), the 4port
that I mentioned in this thread's first post is 125 USD.  Just need 4ports
I don't think too many of our customers will have GigE Internet links for
a few years at least ;-)
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 00:42:14 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:42:14 -0400
Subject: SOS2
Message-ID: <1066783332.2388.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

I'd just like to mention that the Seneca Open Source Symposium is this
Friday, at the Don Mills campus.

While the conference is mostly education-related, the lectures are
mostly technical and very general, so all are welcome.  Information is
available at http://poseidon.senecac.on.ca/~sos2/ .

I'll be giving a talk on making Live CD's to introduce non-linux users
to linux-based applications without a full installation.

Many other interesting speakers will be present, and the entrance fee is
a whopping $10.

Hope to see some of you there.

Austin

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 00:57:00 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 20:57:00 -0400
Subject: 4 port network cards
In-Reply-To: <200310212035.10982.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310211310.47914.fraser@wehave.net> <200310211519.48655.fraser@wehave.net> <3F95BD38.9010403@alteeve.com> <200310212035.10982.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F95D5DC.7010507@alteeve.com>

I tried to see if they still offered the Quad @ 100MBit but it's gone... 
Intel NICs are famous for reliability, not price ;). I know that they 
used to sell a quad-port but I can't say that I know the PN off by 
heart. Maybe an e-bay search will be fruitful?

Madison

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Tuesday 21 October 2003 19:11, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
> 
>>I can have it for you in a day or two for $691.07 (+tax), three year
>>warranty. It is a 64bit PCI card but it will work okay in a standard
>>32bit PCI slot. Fully Linux compatible :).
> 
> 
> Ouch.  The 4port dlinks are under $300 (granted only 100Mb), the 4port
> that I mentioned in this thread's first post is 125 USD.  Just need 4ports
> I don't think too many of our customers will have GigE Internet links for
> a few years at least ;-)

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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 01:32:22 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 21:32:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: SOS2
In-Reply-To: <1066783332.2388.4.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1066783332.2388.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310212131220.20594@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Austin wrote:

> I'd just like to mention that the Seneca Open Source Symposium is this
> Friday, at the Don Mills campus.

Damn, if this had been a weekend I would have been the first in line.
I have great interest in the use of OSS in education (a cash strapped area
no matter how well the economy is going).

Good luck with it.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 02:32:47 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 22:32:47 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Naughty Royal Bank
In-Reply-To: <3F95C446.3050000-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F95C446.3050000@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310212231450.8019@ns.istop.com>

Who says it was the bank that made the investment?  It seems unclear
whether they invested their own funds or were acting as a broker for a
client (the quoted bank employee seems to imply it's a client).

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Moniz wrote:

> I don't know if anyone has seen this. I already gave shit to my local
> banker. Unfortunately, he didn't have a clue what I was talking about,
> but I did register my displeasure.
>
> John.
>
> http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=53813
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 03:12:05 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:12:05 -0400
Subject: SOS2
In-Reply-To: <1066783332.2388.4.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1066783332.2388.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031022031205.GA1413@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Tue, Oct 21, 2003 at 08:42:14PM -0400, Austin wrote:
> I'd just like to mention that the Seneca Open Source Symposium is this
> Friday, at the Don Mills campus.
> 
> While the conference is mostly education-related, the lectures are
> mostly technical and very general, so all are welcome.  Information is
> available at http://poseidon.senecac.on.ca/~sos2/ .
> 
> I'll be giving a talk on making Live CD's to introduce non-linux users
> to linux-based applications without a full installation.

Which room and what time?  I don't see your name mentioned.

> 
> Many other interesting speakers will be present, and the entrance fee
> is a whopping $10.
> 
> Hope to see some of you there.
> 
> Austin

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 03:28:42 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:28:42 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca>

I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. Windows will be on it, but Linux too. 
What current laptops have TLUGers used to run Mandrake 9.2? Any related 
remarks appreciated. Any brands to stay away from? I'm new to the world of 
laptops and find the market pretty confusing.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 03:33:59 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:33:59 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F95FAA7.7020408@alteeve.com>

I emphatically recommend Thinkpads and equally so warn against Dells. 
That said, Compaq Armada's (NOT presarios) and some of the Toshiba's 
(not as familiar with) seem to be acceptible alternatives.

Madison

Elliott Chapin wrote:
> I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. Windows will be on it, but Linux too. 
> What current laptops have TLUGers used to run Mandrake 9.2? Any related 
> remarks appreciated. Any brands to stay away from? I'm new to the world 
> of laptops and find the market pretty confusing.
> 
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 03:35:45 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 23:35:45 -0400
Subject: Naughty Royal Bank
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310212231450.8019-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F95C446.3050000@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310212231450.8019@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F95FB11.7030409@yahoo.ca>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> Who says it was the bank that made the investment?  It seems unclear
> whether they invested their own funds or were acting as a broker for a
> client (the quoted bank employee seems to imply it's a client).

Funny, I was thinking along the same, A MSFT proxy perhaps? ;)

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve


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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 04:07:57 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:07:57 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310220007.58578.marc@lijour.net>

I have a DELL Inspiron 2500, and everything is working fine with Mandrake 9.2.
combo ethernet-modem (win-modem but works), touchpad from synaptics (works at 
the same time as the mouse), i815 chip for the video and ACPI.

The only trouble is MS software that come bundled in a DELL CD. Once I tried 
to install vmware and get my paid ($$$) MS windows installed in the VM, but 
the CD won't boot in it (checks for the laptop BIOS). Bottom line, windows 
works but not in vmware.

The advantage seems to be the price of the laptop, plus it's working.

Hope that helps.
Marc


Le Mardi 21 Octobre 2003 23:28, Elliott Chapin a ?crit :
> I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. Windows will be on it, but Linux too.
> What current laptops have TLUGers used to run Mandrake 9.2? Any related
> remarks appreciated. Any brands to stay away from? I'm new to the world of
> laptops and find the market pretty confusing.
>
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
>
>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 04:15:28 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:15:28 -0400
Subject: SOS2
In-Reply-To: <20031022031205.GA1413-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <1066783332.2388.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	 <20031022031205.GA1413@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <1066796125.4253.0.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Tue, 2003-10-21 at 23:12, William Park wrote:
> Which room and what time?  I don't see your name mentioned.

11:15 AM.  They just told me today, so I dunno what room.

I'd better start burning CD's as fast as I can...

Austin

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From lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 04:32:53 2003
From: lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org (Byron Q. Desnoyers Winmill)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:32:53 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.OSX.4.58.0310220000000.512@localhost>

FWIW, a friend bought a Sony Vaio a few years back.  Linux worked well,
but was less than amusing to install.  (The computer's responses could
be summed up as: floppy drive? CD-ROM? Network booting?  What the heck
are you talking about?)  To make matters worse, the restore CD would
clobber anything on the hard drive -- so how Linux and Windows shared
the hard drive was severely limited.  Things to watch out for at anyrate.

If you're willing to settle for Mandrake 9.1, how about a nice shiny
PowerBook.  I used Debian on a G3 for some time, and was rather pleased.
It looks like you can even run Windows software.  Here is a screenshot
of a VM, under an emulator, under a VM, under Linux.

http://www.maconlinux.com/sshots/pic10.jpg

Mac-on-Linux works well, as does Virtual PC (albeit, slowly).  I never
tried to combination of the two, as this person's screenshot shows.

Another benefit: the restore CD doesn't assume that the vendor's OS is
the only OS you would want to run, so repartitioning the hard drive is
fair play.

A preliminary test of a stock 2.4 kernel from Debian 3.0r1 suggests that
a 12" PowerBook DVI will run Linux.  Anybody interested in a status
report when my machine comes in?

Byron.

On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Elliott Chapin wrote:
> I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. Windows will be on it, but Linux too.
> What current laptops have TLUGers used to run Mandrake 9.2? Any related
> remarks appreciated. Any brands to stay away from? I'm new to the world of
> laptops and find the market pretty confusing.
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 04:35:07 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:35:07 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <200310220007.58578.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca> <200310220007.58578.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F9608FB.2030508@alteeve.com>

My concern with Dell stems from worse than usual hardware. In fact, 
coincidentally today I had to work on a Dell Inspiron 2500 with a bad 
CD-ROM. I've just seen so many Dells fail, and a lot overheat or run 
very hot. The old adage applies; you get what you pay for I guess.

Madison

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> I have a DELL Inspiron 2500, and everything is working fine with Mandrake 9.2.
> combo ethernet-modem (win-modem but works), touchpad from synaptics (works at 
> the same time as the mouse), i815 chip for the video and ACPI.
> 
> The only trouble is MS software that come bundled in a DELL CD. Once I tried 
> to install vmware and get my paid ($$$) MS windows installed in the VM, but 
> the CD won't boot in it (checks for the laptop BIOS). Bottom line, windows 
> works but not in vmware.
> 
> The advantage seems to be the price of the laptop, plus it's working.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> Marc
> 
> 
> Le Mardi 21 Octobre 2003 23:28, Elliott Chapin a ?crit :
> 
>>I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. Windows will be on it, but Linux too.
>>What current laptops have TLUGers used to run Mandrake 9.2? Any related
>>remarks appreciated. Any brands to stay away from? I'm new to the world of
>>laptops and find the market pretty confusing.
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 18:23:50 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:23:50 -0400
Subject: Netscape lock & purge & Thank You All
References: <3F47B36F.9BEBFE30@onlink.net> <3F64208C.675AB9FA@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0309251049361.546@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F9579B6.58D5DE86@onlink.net>

"Peter L. Peres" wrote:

> Wrt locally deleted not removed from server, check compatibility between
> your version of Netscape and pop3d. I remember there were some issues in
> the past with this.

I ended up resolving this by deleting the .netscape directory, which was
rebuilt
when I fired up Netscape again. The new .netscape contains a 'lock' file -
the old
one did *not*, but Netscape claimed there *was* a lock file, which meant I
had to
set my Identity and pop3 server settings everytime I used Netscape.

Now all the problems are gone. No lock file error, server deletes mail only
when
I delete it  locally (pop3 server settings), and  I expect my Identity and
Reply To
Address ]settings will now persist from session to session.

: )

Chris

P.S. Thank you everyone for all your help with everything. It must seem
like I post and post and never resolve anything.  Feels good to finish one.



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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 18:37:38 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:37:38 -0400
Subject: could not allocate partition
References: <3F720247.E4AE6B18@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201328180.18249@epoch.cs>
Message-ID: <3F957CF2.CE085B24@onlink.net>

Jing Su wrote:

> is this an otherwise blank drive?

No - W98SE and W2K are on it.

>
> are you running out of primary partitions?

Yes.

>
> have you tried making an extended partition and putting them into the
> extended partition as logical partitions?

I don't see any option i Disk Druid to select 'extended'. It's not under
'file type' of course - you can force to be primary, but not extended.

I took the wimps way out and just created a / and a swap.  Next time
I'll brave the rapids and try fdisk - I think you can choose 'exteded'
with fdisk.

Thanks for your help.

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 21 18:38:38 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 14:38:38 -0400
Subject: copying launchers to another account
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com> <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net>

Chris Aitken wrote:

> Jeff Mitchell wrote:
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > .gnome-desktop is a directory.

I am trying to find the directory or metafile or whatever that contains
the gnaome panel icons. To that end actually moved *everyting* from
/home/chris to aother folder. Guess what? The icons are still coming
up! that means that the icons must not be in my home directory anywhere...

Wierd, eh?

Chris

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 06:22:01 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 02:22:01 -0400
Subject: Perl mess
Message-ID: <200310220222.02374.marc@lijour.net>


Hi,

do you have an idea how to fix this?
It looks like or sympa (list manager) or perl-MIME-tools can't see NBit in 
some kind of path.

Any help appreciated.
Marc

Processing /var/spool/sympa/msg/sympa-bbkyySd1vPXAXHmmIS9Oan6EUJXTd78t590X/haTGK4 at public.gmane.org with 
priority 1
DoFile(/var/spool/sympa/msg/sympa-bbkyySd1vPXAXHmmIS9Oan6EUJXTd78t590X/haTGK4 at public.gmane.org)
Message::new(/var/spool/sympa/msg/sympa-bbkyySd1vPXAXHmmIS9Oan6EUJXTd78t590X/haTGK4 at public.gmane.org)
Can't locate MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/sympa/bin 
/usr/lib/perl5/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.1 
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi 
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.1 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1 
/usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder.pm line 171, <FILE> line 23.

# ll /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm
-rw-r--r--    1 root     root         4563 Nov  4  2000 
/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm

[root at www bin]# urpmf NBit.pm
perl-MIME-tools:/usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm
[root at www bin]# rpm -q perl-MIME-tools
perl-MIME-tools-5.411-6mdk

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 10:52:53 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:52:53 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F966185.8090403@rogers.com>

Elliott Chapin wrote:
> I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. Windows will be on it, but Linux too. 
> What current laptops have TLUGers used to run Mandrake 9.2? Any related 
> remarks appreciated. Any brands to stay away from? I'm new to the world 
> of laptops and find the market pretty confusing.

IBM ThinkPads tend to be Linux friendly.  I'm running Red Hat 7.3 on my 
R30.  Every thing works, though I had to download drivers for the modem 
and Wi-fi.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 10:54:33 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 06:54:33 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <200310220007.58578.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca> <200310220007.58578.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F9661E9.6010307@rogers.com>

My ThinkPad came with XP, so I just shrunk the partition, to make room 
for Linux.


Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> I have a DELL Inspiron 2500, and everything is working fine with Mandrake 9.2.
> combo ethernet-modem (win-modem but works), touchpad from synaptics (works at 
> the same time as the mouse), i815 chip for the video and ACPI.
> 
> The only trouble is MS software that come bundled in a DELL CD. Once I tried 
> to install vmware and get my paid ($$$) MS windows installed in the VM, but 
> the CD won't boot in it (checks for the laptop BIOS). Bottom line, windows 
> works but not in vmware.
> 
> The advantage seems to be the price of the laptop, plus it's working.
> 
> Hope that helps.
> Marc
> 
> 
> Le Mardi 21 Octobre 2003 23:28, Elliott Chapin a ?crit :
> 
>>I'm planning to buy a laptop soon. Windows will be on it, but Linux too.
>>What current laptops have TLUGers used to run Mandrake 9.2? Any related
>>remarks appreciated. Any brands to stay away from? I'm new to the world of
>>laptops and find the market pretty confusing.
>>
>>
>>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
>>
>>
>>
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> 
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From dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 14:28:25 2003
From: dmorton-VBJBm02B4Ag at public.gmane.org (dave morton)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 10:28:25 -0400
Subject: wiki and php file permissions
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20031022095744.009eeec0@pop3.ilap.com>

I want to use pwp wiki to set up a website for family/friends to journal into.
I am not using any user authentication, so the site will be open to all.

To enable pwp wiki, the instructions are that "..php (>4.2) must be able to 
write.." to the local files.

I have changed the user and group ownerships to 'nobody' and 'nogroup' 
respectively for the
apache htdocs directory.
(php would not write when the default 'root' user and group ownerships
were in place on the htdocs directory).

The files have permissions of rw_rw_r__ .The wiki works great,
however I am concerned that this leaves the linux box susceptible to hackers.

Am I safe or not?

TIA

Dave

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From fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 15:02:28 2003
From: fcsoft-rxKNY4w4koG3ikBYyZqyVg at public.gmane.org (bob findlay)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:02:28 -0400
Subject: Linux memory/swap questions
Message-ID: <20031022145603.3CB031F1E85@outbox.allstream.net>

I want use Linux in an embedded situation where I don't need/want swap.

In my application I plan to use (carefully) malloc/free as well as fork() 
calls.

In the back of my mind is the now legendary memory fragmentation problem 
which brought down a Mars mission a few years back.

I've noticed that it would appear that the Linux kernel is "lazy" when it 
comes to adding free'd memory back to the available pool.   ie. it will take 
new allocations from the unused pool first.     At some "low water" mark it 
seems to say "OK time to clean up".     Mind you I don't have any "hard" 
evidence to support this ... just observations via repeated uses of the free 
command.

My question is,   am I going to encounter problems with memory fragmentation 
to the level that perhap my fork() calls will begin to fail?  ie. I have 
enough memory, just not sufficient contiguous memory.

My understanding of swap is at best superficial, but is this not exactly the 
kind of situation which would cause the kernel to swap the oldest process out 
to make contiguous RAM available?

Is there a Linux system call which kicks it to do a memory cleanup?    Can 
memory cleanup even happen without swap around to use during the cleanup?

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From drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 15:35:58 2003
From: drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org (drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:35:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Job opportunity - contract
Message-ID: <1749.216.123.164.50.1066836958.squirrel@foobar.dyn.dhs.org>

Forwarded for my Dad, please respond to him dirrectly at

"George Hammond" <ghamm-Vu0SEX+x72vdtdh9y/2JUA at public.gmane.org>

Please include a cover letter and a CV. From what I understand, they're
looking at implementing a web-app front end to a Postgres db. There's a
strong emphasis on secure, high quality / maintainable code and solid
documentation. This is not a position for a junior developer.

-- Drew

My name is George Hammond, and I help with technical support for the
Primary Health Care Nurse Practitioner (NP) program at Ryerson School of
Nursing.

The Ryerson NP office, located at 415 Yonge St, Suite 1604,  is the
Central Registry for the 10 Ontario University Schools of Nursing
consortium.  We currently maintain a small (MSWorks) database of all
learners and staff in the program in Ontario.  We will be upgrading our
database this summer and Fall to an on-line data acquisition and
reporting mechanism.  Our database does not replace existing Registrar's
systems; rather it serves as a single source for combined basic data
about learners and staff from the 10 institutions.

The database is relatively small, since we currently have about 900
individual records to maintain, and the currently anticipated maximum
size might grow to several thousand (2,000 to 3,000) over the next 10
years.  Our database will have typical security provisions to restrict
access appropriately for both the learners and staff, much as a full
fledged Student Records System would do.  Given the relatively small
size, and the need for on-line access by learners and staff across the
province, we are not contemplating use of one of the currently available
Student Records packages.

Our project will begin with the selection of database software suitable
for development and operation of the database at Ryerson.  We are
developing a logical design for the database now.  We plan to have the
database system go into early production mode next January, so
development and testing will take place during the Fall.

Thanks very much,
George Hammond
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From rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 15:55:50 2003
From: rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org (Rick Delaney)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 11:55:50 -0400
Subject: Perl mess
In-Reply-To: <200310220222.02374.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>; from marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org on Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:22:01AM -0400
References: <200310220222.02374.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031022115550.B2233@biff.bort.ca>

On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:22:01AM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> 
> Can't locate MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /usr/lib/sympa/bin 
> /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.1 
> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi 
> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.1 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1 
> /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl 
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi 
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1 
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi 
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at 
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder.pm line 171, <FILE> line 23.
> 
> # ll /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm
> -rw-r--r--    1 root     root         4563 Nov  4  2000 
> /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm

What are the permissions of

  /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder

?

-- 
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rick-h4KjNK7Mzas at public.gmane.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 16:48:18 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:48:18 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
Message-ID: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>


Just a heads up, many people are reporting that the 9.2 install of
Mandrake has hosed their CD drive *permanently*. Seems to be particular
to LG drives, but there is more info here:

http://www.mandrakeclub.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Splatt_Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=12989&forum=10

Is someone trying to tell me to switch distros...? ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If little green men land in your back yard, hide any little green women
you've got in the house.
		-- Mike Harding, "The Armchair Anarchist's Almanac"
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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 17:15:45 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:15:45 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> Just a heads up, many people are reporting that the 9.2 install of
> Mandrake has hosed their CD drive *permanently*. Seems to be particular
> to LG drives, but there is more info here:
> 
> http://www.mandrakeclub.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Splatt_Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=12989&forum=10
> 
> Is someone trying to tell me to switch distros...? ;-)
> 
LG and Samsung has always been the worst CD drives, so Mandrake just 
does ? natural selection, helping Linux community to cut feebles off :-)

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From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 19:24:05 2003
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:24:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: USB 2.0  External CD Burner on a USB 1.1 computer
Message-ID: <20031022192405.85957.qmail@web40711.mail.yahoo.com>

Are the USB 2.0 cd burners built for the newer High Speed USB ports
only?





=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 19:24:57 2003
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:24:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: USB 2.0  External CD Burner on a USB 1.1 computer
Message-ID: <20031022192457.95141.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com>

Are the USB 2.0 cd burners built for the newer High Speed USB ports
only?





=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 19:37:42 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:37:42 -0400
Subject: DB conversion
Message-ID: <3F96DC86.9040701@alteeve.com>

Is there an easy way to convert from Postgres to MySQL?

I've heard of postgres2mysql, buy google didn't turn it up...


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From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 19:36:07 2003
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 12:36:07 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: ASUS CD Burner
Message-ID: <20031022193607.97452.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com>

52X/24X/52X External / USB2.0 / 2MB Buffer / Burnproof ASUS burner

is 164.95 at computer avenue winnipeg.  I don't mind paying extra for
quality and wonder if the above ASUS burner is worth the premium?




=====
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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 20:12:56 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:12:56 -0400
Subject: DB conversion
In-Reply-To: <3F96DC86.9040701-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96DC86.9040701@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3F96E4C8.6030307@alteeve.com>

Specificly, is there a MySql equiv. for:

CREATE SEQUENCE "data_ref_seq" start 1 increment 1 maxvalue 2147483647 
minvalue$SELECT nextval ('"data_ref_seq"');

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 20:19:55 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 16:19:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: USB 2.0  External CD Burner on a USB 1.1 computer
In-Reply-To: <20031022192457.95141.qmail-/joetn0QaPmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022192457.95141.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310221615360.3896-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Mel Seder wrote:

> Are the USB 2.0 cd burners built for the newer High Speed USB ports
> only?

They are also USB 1.1 backwards compatible. Unfortunately, the only speed 
you will get out of them on a USB 1.1 port is about 4x. Something to 
consider when burning lots of CDs. Not sure about all burners, but you can 
use this as a general rule.

4 x 150k/s = 600k/s (4x speed)

Do you have a USB 2.0 card, or a does your motherboard support USB 2.0?

-- 
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http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 20:37:21 2003
From: melseder-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Mel Seder)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:37:21 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: USB 2.0  External CD Burner on a USB 1.1 computer
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310221615360.3896-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310221615360.3896-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <20031022203721.72177.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Teodor Iliescu <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Mel Seder wrote:
> 
> > Are the USB 2.0 cd burners built for the newer High Speed USB ports
> > only?
> 
> They are also USB 1.1 backwards compatible. Unfortunately, the only
> speed 
> you will get out of them on a USB 1.1 port is about 4x. Something to 
> consider when burning lots of CDs. Not sure about all burners, but
> you can 
> use this as a general rule.
> 
> 4 x 150k/s = 600k/s (4x speed)
> 
> Do you have a USB 2.0 card, or a does your motherboard support USB
> 2.0?
> 
I have an ASUS P4B266 motherboard.  Their shipping box says USB 2.0
(optional) so I suspect I don't have it.  I don't remember putting in
any kind of USB card when I assembled the computer.




=====
The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
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From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 21:09:09 2003
From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:09:09 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: DB conversion
In-Reply-To: <3F96E4C8.6030307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96E4C8.6030307@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310221708120.19635-100000@d141-143-198.home.cgocable.net>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> Specificly, is there a MySql equiv. for:
> 
> CREATE SEQUENCE "data_ref_seq" start 1 increment 1 maxvalue 2147483647 
> minvalue$SELECT nextval ('"data_ref_seq"');

Check out http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/example-AUTO_INCREMENT.html

Terry

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  Canada NewsWire Ltd.              Fax: (416) 863-4825
  20 Bay Street, Suite 1500         Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
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From matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 21:11:40 2003
From: matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Matthew Rice)
Date: 22 Oct 2003 17:11:40 -0400
Subject: DB conversion
In-Reply-To: <3F96E4C8.6030307-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96DC86.9040701@alteeve.com> <3F96E4C8.6030307@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <lvfzhlkmer.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

"Lance F. Squire" <lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> writes:
> Specificly, is there a MySql equiv. for:
> 
> CREATE SEQUENCE "data_ref_seq" start 1 increment 1 maxvalue 2147483647
> minvalue$SELECT nextval ('"data_ref_seq"');

You probably want to look at the AUTO_INCREMENT keyword:

        http://www.mysql.com/doc/en/example-AUTO_INCREMENT.html

HTH,
-- 
matthew rice <matt-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                               starnix inc.
phone: 905-771-0017 x242                        thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 21:12:10 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:12:10 -0400
Subject: Perl mess
In-Reply-To: <20031022115550.B2233-Aco4KUUxZ1MCzWx7n4ubxQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310220222.02374.marc@lijour.net> <20031022115550.B2233@biff.bort.ca>
Message-ID: <200310221712.11605.marc@lijour.net>

Le Mercredi 22 Octobre 2003 11:55, Rick Delaney a ?crit :
> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 02:22:01AM -0400, Marc Lijour (Professeur 
d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Can't locate MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm in @INC (@INC contains:
> > /usr/lib/sympa/bin /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi
> > /usr/lib/perl5/5.8.1
> > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi
> > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.8.1 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.1
> > /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/5.6.0 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl
> > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/i386-linux-thread-multi
> > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1
> > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0/i386-linux-thread-multi
> > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.0 /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl .) at
> > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder.pm line 171, <FILE> line
> > 23.
> >
> > # ll /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm
> > -rw-r--r--    1 root     root         4563 Nov  4  2000
> > /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder/NBit.pm
>
> What are the permissions of
>
>   /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/Decoder
>
> ?
Thank you for your help. I just figured it out!
I fell back to the previous working version of perl-MIME-tools (the one for 
Mandrake 9.2 is broken), and it works now!

For your question actual ls gives:
[root at www root]# ll   /usr/lib/perl5/vendor_perl/5.8.1/MIME/
total 0
(That is NO file. They must have package differently, and badly :-)

Thanks anyway.
Marc

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 19:43:54 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:43:54 +0200 (IST)
Subject: copying launchers to another account
In-Reply-To: <3F957D2E.178F05F4-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com>
 <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net> <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310222143380.584@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> I am trying to find the directory or metafile or whatever that contains

locate gnome|grep png

Peter
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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 22:15:55 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 18:15:55 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: USB 2.0  External CD Burner on a USB 1.1 computer
In-Reply-To: <20031022203721.72177.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022203721.72177.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310221808080.4439-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Mel Seder wrote:

> I have an ASUS P4B266 motherboard.  Their shipping box says USB 2.0
> (optional) so I suspect I don't have it.  I don't remember putting in
> any kind of USB card when I assembled the computer.

I've looked at your mobo's specs, and it mentioned that both USB 1.1 and 
USB 2.0 connectors are optional.

I guess the only thing you can do, is order the optional part, or buy a 
USB 2.0 card. I'm sure that it is cheaper to get the USB 2.0 connector.

Good thing you asked before you went out to get the burner. :o

Hope this helps.

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 21:49:42 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:49:42 -0400
Subject: USB 2.0  External CD Burner on a USB 1.1 computer
In-Reply-To: <20031022203721.72177.qmail-XMBCVWRoowaA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022203721.72177.qmail@web40706.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F96FB76.9030802@rogers.com>

Mel Seder wrote:
> --- Teodor Iliescu <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>>On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Mel Seder wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Are the USB 2.0 cd burners built for the newer High Speed USB ports
>>>only?
>>
>>They are also USB 1.1 backwards compatible. Unfortunately, the only
>>speed 
>>you will get out of them on a USB 1.1 port is about 4x. Something to 
>>consider when burning lots of CDs. Not sure about all burners, but
>>you can 
>>use this as a general rule.
>>
>>4 x 150k/s = 600k/s (4x speed)
>>
>>Do you have a USB 2.0 card, or a does your motherboard support USB
>>2.0?
>>
> 
> I have an ASUS P4B266 motherboard.  Their shipping box says USB 2.0
> (optional) so I suspect I don't have it.  I don't remember putting in
> any kind of USB card when I assembled the computer.

Well, they're not that expensive, so no reason you couldn't install one.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 21:48:08 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:48:08 -0400
Subject: USB 2.0  External CD Burner on a USB 1.1 computer
In-Reply-To: <20031022192457.95141.qmail-/joetn0QaPmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022192457.95141.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F96FB18.1030804@rogers.com>

As I understand it, they will work with USB 1, but slower.


Mel Seder wrote:
> Are the USB 2.0 cd burners built for the newer High Speed USB ports
> only?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> =====
> The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him 
> absolutely no good. -Samuel Johnson, lexicographer (1709-1784)
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 23:01:13 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:01:13 -0400
Subject: Naughty Royal Bank
References: <3F95C446.3050000@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310212231450.8019@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <3F970C39.1070009@sympatico.ca>

Ralph Doncaster wrote:

>Who says it was the bank that made the investment?  It seems unclear
>whether they invested their own funds or were acting as a broker for a
>client (the quoted bank employee seems to imply it's a client).
>
>Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
>6042147 Canada Inc.
>
>On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, Moniz wrote:
>
>>I don't know if anyone has seen this. I already gave shit to my local
>>banker. Unfortunately, he didn't have a clue what I was talking about,
>>but I did register my displeasure.
>>
>>John.
>>
>>http://www.itbusiness.ca/index.asp?theaction=61&sid=53813
>>
The way I read it, RBC was investing Royal Bank funds. But it isn't real 
clear.

John.

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 04:14:45 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 00:14:45 -0400
Subject: copying launchers to another account
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com>
	 <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net> <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310222143380.584@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F960435.B08A7A65@onlink.net>

"Peter L. Peres" wrote:

> On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>
> > I am trying to find the directory or metafile or whatever that contains
>
> locate gnome|grep png

OK, that gave me ninety-four pages (not exaggerating) of filenames.
Should make for interesting reading...

Chris

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From Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 17:55:08 2003
From: Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Carola Koitz)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 19:55:08 +0200
Subject: Cogeco
Message-ID: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca>

Hi

Who has experiences with Cogeco and I also would like to know
if  Cogeco has port 25 restriction?
We are currently customers of sympatico with a web and mail server
at Verio and we would like to change our ISP.

Carola


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From ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 01:46:31 2003
From: ttanski-iRg7kjdsKiH3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Terry Tanski)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 21:46:31 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Cogeco
In-Reply-To: <3F96C47C.6040408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310222146050.20476-100000@d141-143-198.home.cgocable.net>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, Carola Koitz wrote:

> Who has experiences with Cogeco and I also would like to know
> if  Cogeco has port 25 restriction?
> We are currently customers of sympatico with a web and mail server
> at Verio and we would like to change our ISP.

Cogeco has no such restrictions.

Terry

-- 

  Terry Tanski, B.Sc.               Phone: (416) 863-2126
  Canada NewsWire Ltd.              Fax: (416) 863-4825
  20 Bay Street, Suite 1500         Email: ttanski-BEj8/MhvOJIsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 03:36:03 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 23:36:03 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <3F9661E9.6010307-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca>
 <200310220007.58578.marc@lijour.net>
 <3F9661E9.6010307@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031022233437.028a5790@pop1.sympatico.ca>



Thanks, folks. While I'm at it: Any impressions of Acer laptops?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 04:20:10 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:20:10 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031022233437.028a5790-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca> <200310220007.58578.marc@lijour.net> <3F9661E9.6010307@rogers.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031022233437.028a5790@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9756FA.4050609@alteeve.com>

When I first started selling hardware in '97 I used to use Acer (aka 
AOpen, aka BenQ). I used everything from mainboards to PSU and cases to 
modems and monitors. Everything had a high failure rate in the first 
year (and of course after) and I dropped them quickly. I haven't 
personally used the Acer Laptops but I would recommend avoiding them at 
all costs. Heck, I would even recommend a Dell before an Acer and you 
know what I think of Dells ;).

Madison

Elliott Chapin wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, folks. While I'm at it: Any impressions of Acer laptops?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 04:55:46 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 00:55:46 -0400
Subject: DB conversion
In-Reply-To: Message from "Lance F. Squire" <lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:37:42 EDT." <3F96DC86.9040701-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> 
References: <3F96DC86.9040701@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031023045547.106E243E3@cbbrowne.com>

> Is there an easy way to convert from Postgres to MySQL?

There can't be, because a great deal of the functionality would require
that you add substantial code to your application since MySQL does
minimal if any validation of input, and does not support vital features
such as triggers, stored procedures, and VIEWs.

The only way you are likely to be able to convert a relational database
application to use MySQL is if you are using your database in the most
impoverished way.
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "moc.enworbbc" "@" "enworbbc"))
http://cbbrowne.com/info/wp.html
"If you spend more  on coffee than  on  IT security,  then you  will be
hacked." -- Richard Clarke
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 11:23:06 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:23:06 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <3F9756FA.4050609-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>; from linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 12:20:10AM -0400
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca> <200310220007.58578.marc@lijour.net> <3F9661E9.6010307@rogers.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031022233437.028a5790@pop1.sympatico.ca> <3F9756FA.4050609@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031023072306.A26109@ee.ryerson.ca>


For what it's worth, I know several people who have got Compaq laptops (from
Radio Shack, I believe), and they have all said they're not happy with them.

And one of my colleagues went to get an additional battery for his Sony
Viao, and it was something like $300 and not available from a second source.
The Sony guy said 'Well, we have to make our money somewhere.' So check out
the cost of the battery - maybe with someone like Battery World - before
buying.

Peter

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 12:27:52 2003
From: wmcgilvery-6d3DWWOeJtE at public.gmane.org (Wil McGilvery)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 08:27:52 -0400
Subject: FW:DB conversion
Message-ID: <65B7B304AA3DE147BBD33938FE204E284A9371@lynchmail.lynch.msft>


Here is the answer one of my programmers gave me.

Mysql Doesn't have Sequences like Postgres, however, the equivalent 
Is by specifiying a column (usually the primary) to have an auto increment index

ALTER TABLE table_name CHANGE pk_column pk_column BIGINT NOT NULL AUTO_INCREMENT

The column cannot have any values that have 0 in it but can have unique values.
And to reset the auto increment to the highest value in the column by:

ALTER TABLE table_name AUTO_INCREMENT = 1

Then on row inserts, skip the value for this column (pk_column) and the auto-incremented value will be inserted. 

More info can be found on www.mysql.com 


Regards,

Wil McGilvery
Manager
Lynch Digital Media Inc

         

416-744-7949
416-716-3964 (cell)
1-866-314-4678
416-744-0406? FAX
www.LynchDigital.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Lance F. Squire [mailto:lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org] 
Sent: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 4:13 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: DB conversion

Specificly, is there a MySql equiv. for:

CREATE SEQUENCE "data_ref_seq" start 1 increment 1 maxvalue 2147483647 
minvalue$SELECT nextval ('"data_ref_seq"');

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 13:13:51 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:13:51 -0400
Subject: DB conversion :: Thanks!
In-Reply-To: <20031023045547.106E243E3-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96DC86.9040701@alteeve.com> <20031023045547.106E243E3@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <3F97D40F.4010002@alteeve.com>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>>Is there an easy way to convert from Postgres to MySQL?
> 
> 
> There can't be, because a great deal of the functionality would require
> that you add substantial code to your application since MySQL does
> minimal if any validation of input, and does not support vital features
> such as triggers, stored procedures, and VIEWs.
> 
> The only way you are likely to be able to convert a relational database
> application to use MySQL is if you are using your database in the most
> impoverished way.
> --

Thankfuly its a simple storage/retreval system, so nothing special.
Thanks for the explination, and THANK YOU to all who pointed to the 
AUTO_INCREMENT command.

I was pouring over the MySql web docs, but didn't find it....

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 13:28:28 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 09:28:28 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <3F96BB41.6020208-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:15:45 -0400
Ilya Palagin <IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > Just a heads up, many people are reporting that the 9.2 install of
> > Mandrake has hosed their CD drive *permanently*. Seems to be
> > particular to LG drives, but there is more info here:
> > 
> > http://www.mandrakeclub.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Splatt_Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=12989&forum=10
> > 
> > Is someone trying to tell me to switch distros...? ;-)
> > 
> LG and Samsung has always been the worst CD drives, so Mandrake just 
> does ? natural selection, helping Linux community to cut feebles off
> :-)

Verrrrry funny...anyway, it *seems* to be limited to CDROM drives,
really el-cheapo ones, and more to do with the kernel version than
the distro itself (kernel module trying to configure drive to beyond
it's limits?) We shall see. My LG burner, BTW, has never spit out one
coaster, very reliable, I've been using it since about 8.2 with no
problems.

Lot of complaints on the Mandrake lists about this release, missing
packages, broken init.d, missing kernel source, some other stuff. I
wonder if they were in too much of a hurry to get this "out the door".

Just so no one gets me wrong, I am very thankful for my rock-solid 9.1
install, does everything I want it to, no complaints at all. I'm sure
this will all come out alright in the end.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.
		-- Lao Tsu
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From pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:24:43 2003
From: pmills-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q at public.gmane.org (Phillip Mills)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:24:43 -0400
Subject: SOS2
In-Reply-To: <1066783332.2388.4.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <1066783332.2388.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <A500A5C4-0564-11D8-8278-00039310151E@axxent.ca>

On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:42 PM, Austin wrote:

> While the conference is mostly education-related, the lectures are
> mostly technical and very general, so all are welcome.  Information is
> available at http://poseidon.senecac.on.ca/~sos2/ .

I just attempted to sign up on the web site.  After entering data on 
the participant page, hitting 'Submit' reloaded the same page with 
blank fields...no confirmation, which leads me to suspect that it 
failed...or maybe not.  There also seems to be no real world contact 
information on the site.

I guess I could just show up and see what happens.

........................
Phillip Mills
Multi-platform software development
(416) 224-0714

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:22:14 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:22:14 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 laptops (?)
In-Reply-To: <20031023072306.A26109-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031021232012.0288d290@pop1.sympatico.ca> <200310220007.58578.marc@lijour.net> <3F9661E9.6010307@rogers.com> <6.0.0.22.2.20031022233437.028a5790@pop1.sympatico.ca> <3F9756FA.4050609@alteeve.com> <20031023072306.A26109@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <3F97E416.6030808@alteeve.com>

I agree with both of what you said. The Compaq's most retail stores sell 
are Presario and anything with the Presario name is garbage. The Armadas 
are Compaq's business line and those I hve been happy with. Sony Vaio's 
are really attractive and they seem to think that means that they can 
get away with charging a lot more. Also, their post-sales support is 
horrible. I had a customer with a Vaio one time develop a problem and 
when I called in Vaio for support they refused to help because the 
client had upgraded IE from version 5.0 that shipped to version 5.5.

I have worked with a pretty wide variety of laptops over the years and 
that is  why I still recommend Thinkpads as being worth the extra money. :)

Madison

Peter Hiscocks wrote:
> For what it's worth, I know several people who have got Compaq laptops (from
> Radio Shack, I believe), and they have all said they're not happy with them.
> 
> And one of my colleagues went to get an additional battery for his Sony
> Viao, and it was something like $300 and not available from a second source.
> The Sony guy said 'Well, we have to make our money somewhere.' So check out
> the cost of the battery - maybe with someone like Battery World - before
> buying.
> 
> Peter
> 

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From markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:22:42 2003
From: markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Fiifi Markin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:22:42 +0000
Subject: domains on linux
Message-ID: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32@hotmail.com>

hello,
i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers cable, 
i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to setup a web 
server for my website. my problem is i know very little a bout networking, i 
am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, and the address which 
is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the 
webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) 
connect to that domain

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:34:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:34:15 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031023103415.67c9c954.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:22:42 +0000
"Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> hello,
> i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers
> cable, i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to
> setup a web server for my website. my problem is i know very little a
> bout networking, i am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my
> network, and the address which is comminf from rogers is a
> 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the webserver and have my
> other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) connect to that
> domain

Kind of a lot of quesions in there... ;-)

First of all, do you have Apache installed and running? What Linux
distro are you using?

If Apache is already up and running, it should already be serving up the
default page (usually in /var/www/html). You can check this by opening a
browser on that machine (the webserver) and enter http://localhost in
the address field.

For the page to be accessible to the internet, you need to configure the
router so that it forwards port 80 to the webserver. The router's
documentation should have info on how to do that, depending on what
router you are using.

For setting up and internal domain/workgroup, nothing beats Samba, but
again, I don't know what distro you are using or if that's been
installed already. It's very easy to set up, though, and can be
configured easily through an interface called Webmin.

Please write back with more info on your OS, what packages are
installed, etc. and I bet I can at least get you started.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, you know, no matter where you go, there you are.
		-- Buckaroo Banzai
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:47:14 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:47:14 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
	 <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 09:28, JoeHill wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 13:15:45 -0400
> Ilya Palagin <IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > LG and Samsung has always been the worst CD drives, so Mandrake just 
> > does ? natural selection, helping Linux community to cut feebles off
> > :-)

So far we have a large list of LG drive models that have been damaged,
and a small list of LG models that work fine.  Mandrake wants to release
an official advisory about it, but they are trying to finalize the list
first, and figure out if there is a way to reverse the problem.  Someone
suggested reloading the firmware may work.

> Lot of complaints on the Mandrake lists about this release, missing
> packages, broken init.d, missing kernel source, some other stuff. I
> wonder if they were in too much of a hurry to get this "out the door".

Yeah, there's about 200 MB of security and bug fixes already.  Mandrake
has a problem with a) fixed release deadlines and b) not enough good
beta testers c) not enough people/time to fix the bug reports they do
get.  The perfect solution would be if 9.2 sells big (club and boxed
sets), and Mandrake goes back into the black.   A bit of money can
really improve a distro.

> Just so no one gets me wrong, I am very thankful for my rock-solid 9.1
> install, does everything I want it to, no complaints at all. I'm sure
> this will all come out alright in the end.

We'll see how it goes... I guess it depends on how many people are
willing to download 200 MB+ of updates.  The reviews have been really
positive so far, so I think the usability base is there, it's a question
of out-of-the-box stability.

Austin

---
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca


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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:50:46 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:50:46 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
Message-ID: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>

Well, you'll probably end up with a bunch of angry calls from Rogers, because they officially do not allow having Web (or any other) servers, and AFAIK portscan you periodically.

But, in general, to access your web server from outside, you will have to map port to internal IP, i.e. requests that come to address 24.64.xx.xx port 80 are transfered to 192.18.xx.xx (Web server) port 80.

I am not quite sure about what you mean by "..... how do i setup the domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) connect to that domain".....


Sergey


> 
> From: "Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:22:42 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: domains on linux
> 
> hello,
> i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers cable, 
> i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to setup a web 
> server for my website. my problem is i know very little a bout networking, i 
> am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, and the address which 
> is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the 
> webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) 
> connect to that domain
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:52:31 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:52:31 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F97EB2F.6070503@alteeve.com>

JoeHill hit the nail on the head. A little more on the networking side 
though... The routing from the Rogers IP to your internal IP is called 
Static NAT (Network Address Translation) and when you forward just a 
single port such as port 80 to an internal IP that is called Port 
Forwarding.

Depending on what router you have you may have to do this differently 
but as Joe said, your manual should tell you how. Most entry-level home 
routers will probably have somewhere in the advanced section a place 
that will allow you to choose either an IP to enter as a "DMZ" 
(De-Militarized Zone) and another section to enter first and last Port 
numbers and destination IP and (sometimes) a port range for that IP.

If you enter an internal IP into the DMZ then ANY requests made to your 
Rogers IP will automatically be passed the the machine with the internal 
IP address you enter. This has the benefit of simplifying the routing 
but has the downside in that now ALL ports of your server are exposed. 
This means specifically that you will want to setup an IPTables firewall 
to black all the ports except the ones for the services you are offering 
(ie. 22 for SSH, 80 for web, etc).

If you setup port forwarding that you can actually route requests to 
more than one machine so long as you don't try to use the same port 
twice. For example, you might want to have requests coming into your 
Rogers account on port 22 to be forwarded to your desktop computer while 
having requests on port 80 go to your web server. The downside of this 
method is that most small routers will max out at about 10 
port-forwardiing entries so what you can open is limited. The other 
benefit is that it is up to the router to block all the other ports.

HTH

Madison

Fiifi Markin wrote:
> hello,
> i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers 
> cable, i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to 
> setup a web server for my website. my problem is i know very little a 
> bout networking, i am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, 
> and the address which is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i 
> setup the domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently 
> connected to the router ) connect to that domain
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:53:32 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:32 -0400
Subject: SOS2
In-Reply-To: <A500A5C4-0564-11D8-8278-00039310151E-5bG9SNWDbRX3fQ9qLvQP4Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <A500A5C4-0564-11D8-8278-00039310151E@axxent.ca>
Message-ID: <1066920810.2724.11.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 10:24, Phillip Mills wrote:
> On Tuesday, October 21, 2003, at 08:42 PM, Austin wrote:
> 
> > While the conference is mostly education-related, the lectures are
> > mostly technical and very general, so all are welcome.  Information is
> > available at http://poseidon.senecac.on.ca/~sos2/ .
> 
> I just attempted to sign up on the web site.  After entering data on 
> the participant page, hitting 'Submit' reloaded the same page with 
> blank fields...no confirmation, which leads me to suspect that it 
> failed...or maybe not.  There also seems to be no real world contact 
> information on the site.

That is normal.  It's a poorly designed form.

> I guess I could just show up and see what happens.

Despite the list of cool speakers, I've heard that it's going to be very
friendly and informal.  I'm sure anyone can just 'show up'. 
Registration is mainly so they know how much food to by, right?

Austin

-- 
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca


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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 14:55:03 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:55:03 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net-+p+fmPhZGT9zEkMh6vRF2A@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>
Message-ID: <3F97EBC7.2070409@alteeve.com>

IIRC from reading the man page on NMAP or IPTables isn't there a way to 
setup a box/firewall to not answer port scans? Something about simply 
not responging unless it is a specific request for the server (ie. 
http-get request for Apache)? I wish I could remember details but anyway 
it might be a way to keep Rogers off your back.

Madison

serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> Well, you'll probably end up with a bunch of angry calls from Rogers, because they officially do not allow having Web (or any other) servers, and AFAIK portscan you periodically.
> 
> But, in general, to access your web server from outside, you will have to map port to internal IP, i.e. requests that come to address 24.64.xx.xx port 80 are transfered to 192.18.xx.xx (Web server) port 80.
> 
> I am not quite sure about what you mean by "..... how do i setup the domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) connect to that domain".....
> 
> 
> Sergey
> 
> 
> 
>>From: "Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>>Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:22:42 EST
>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>>Subject: [TLUG]: domains on linux
>>
>>hello,
>>i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers cable, 
>>i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to setup a web 
>>server for my website. my problem is i know very little a bout networking, i 
>>am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, and the address which 
>>is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the 
>>webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) 
>>connect to that domain
>>
>>_________________________________________________________________
>>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
>>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 15:14:21 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:14:21 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <3F97EBC7.2070409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>
	<3F97EBC7.2070409@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031023111421.3b84512e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:55:03 -0400
Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> IIRC from reading the man page on NMAP or IPTables isn't there a way
> to setup a box/firewall to not answer port scans? Something about
> simply not responging unless it is a specific request for the server
> (ie. http-get request for Apache)? I wish I could remember details but
> anyway it might be a way to keep Rogers off your back.

I know on my router I have this option: Ignore ping and port scans from
WAN. I *assume* this means that the router will not answer. I have,
however, noticed, that this can cause other problems, since for example
when you go to send an e-mail, they may ping or scan to make sure you
are coming from their network.

In any case, the best way to deal with any accusations that one is
violating some TOS is to play dumb and deny all knowledge, claim the web
page was only for internal clients, etc.

I've been running a webserver on Sympatico for years and nary a peep
from them.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well, you know, no matter where you go, there you are.
		-- Buckaroo Banzai
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 15:21:06 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:21:06 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <1066920432.2724.7.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
	<20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:47:14 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Someone suggested reloading the firmware may work.

I saw a post on the Club forum about that, didn't work because it needed
to access the *old* firmware 1st, which was apparently fried.

I'm not in a *huge* hurry to upgrade in any case, my system is doing
everything I want it to right now (I just watched Reign of Fire, not a
bad flick, but for a movie about Dragons, you don't get to see very
many, LOL!).

I wonder if there'll be a 9.3 before a 10.0?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Life can be so tragic -- you're here today and here tomorrow.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 15:28:46 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:28:46 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <20031023111421.3b84512e.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>	<3F97EBC7.2070409@alteeve.com> <20031023111421.3b84512e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F97F3AE.2020701@alteeve.com>

Ditto with Sympatico. I hate Bell as a company in many ways but as an 
ISP they tnd to leave you alone.

Madison

BTW - If it's IPTables thing (which, IIRc it is) then you can put a rule 
in that says for mail answer scans but for the rest of teh ports ignore. 
  Darn, now I'm annoyed that I can't remember! I will have to look and 
see what it was exactly because I can feel it clinging tenaciously to 
the edge of my brain... :)

JoeHill wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:55:03 -0400
> Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> 
>>IIRC from reading the man page on NMAP or IPTables isn't there a way
>>to setup a box/firewall to not answer port scans? Something about
>>simply not responging unless it is a specific request for the server
>>(ie. http-get request for Apache)? I wish I could remember details but
>>anyway it might be a way to keep Rogers off your back.
> 
> 
> I know on my router I have this option: Ignore ping and port scans from
> WAN. I *assume* this means that the router will not answer. I have,
> however, noticed, that this can cause other problems, since for example
> when you go to send an e-mail, they may ping or scan to make sure you
> are coming from their network.
> 
> In any case, the best way to deal with any accusations that one is
> violating some TOS is to play dumb and deny all knowledge, claim the web
> page was only for internal clients, etc.
> 
> I've been running a webserver on Sympatico for years and nary a peep
> from them.
> 

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 15:28:21 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:28:21 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
	 <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	 <20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 11:21, JoeHill wrote:
> I wonder if there'll be a 9.3 before a 10.0?

Nope.  The next release will be 10.0, in exactly six months from now. 
Bug hunting and feature plans have already begun.
http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/Mandrake10

Austin
-- 
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca


--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 15:36:30 2003
From: serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:36:30 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
Message-ID: <20031023153630.NLXH21321.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>

Well, agree, but the whole thing requires some more than simple configuration, and the initial question will not be answered by a couple of simple e-mails. They has a right to know what he is dealing with, and then decide on his own whether he wants to move on and dig in the things he knows very little about (all of us were there at a certain point, and this might result in him getting one of those valuable experiences) to accomplish a relatively simple task of setting up a personal web server.

Sergey


> 
> From: Madison Kelly <linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:55:03 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: domains on linux
> 
> IIRC from reading the man page on NMAP or IPTables isn't there a way to 
> setup a box/firewall to not answer port scans? Something about simply 
> not responging unless it is a specific request for the server (ie. 
> http-get request for Apache)? I wish I could remember details but anyway 
> it might be a way to keep Rogers off your back.
> 
> Madison
> 
> serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Well, you'll probably end up with a bunch of angry calls from Rogers, because they officially do not allow having Web (or any other) servers, and AFAIK portscan you periodically.
> > 
> > But, in general, to access your web server from outside, you will have to map port to internal IP, i.e. requests that come to address 24.64.xx.xx port 80 are transfered to 192.18.xx.xx (Web server) port 80.
> > 
> > I am not quite sure about what you mean by "..... how do i setup the domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) connect to that domain".....
> > 
> > 
> > Sergey
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>From: "Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> >>Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:22:42 EST
> >>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >>Subject: [TLUG]: domains on linux
> >>
> >>hello,
> >>i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers cable, 
> >>i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to setup a web 
> >>server for my website. my problem is i know very little a bout networking, i 
> >>am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, and the address which 
> >>is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the 
> >>webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) 
> >>connect to that domain
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
> >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> >>
> >>--
> >>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 15:57:11 2003
From: tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Tim Writer)
Date: 23 Oct 2003 11:57:11 -0400
Subject: DB conversion
In-Reply-To: <20031023045547.106E243E3-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96DC86.9040701@alteeve.com>
	<20031023045547.106E243E3@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <ltvfqgaqw8.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>

cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org writes:

> > Is there an easy way to convert from Postgres to MySQL?
> 
> There can't be, because a great deal of the functionality would require
> that you add substantial code to your application since MySQL does
> minimal if any validation of input, and does not support vital features
> such as triggers, stored procedures, and VIEWs.
> 
> The only way you are likely to be able to convert a relational database
> application to use MySQL is if you are using your database in the most
> impoverished way.

At risk of starting a flame war, that's a matter of opinion.  I could rewrite
your last sentence this way:

    You can easily convert your application from Posgress to MySQL
    as long as you're using it sensibly, i.e. for storing data. If
    you're using "advanced" features that really don't belong in a
    database, like triggers, stored procedures, etc. the conversion
    will be more difficult.

When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Just my $0.02.

-- 
tim writer <tim-s/rLXaiAEBtBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>                                  starnix inc.
905.771.0017 ext. 225                           thornhill, ontario, canada
http://www.starnix.com              professional linux services & products
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 16:02:39 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:02:39 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <1066922899.2720.14.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
	<20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031023120239.48133ded.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:28:21 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Nope.  The next release will be 10.0, in exactly six months from now.

Like you said before, six months as always!

> Bug hunting and feature plans have already begun.
> http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/Mandrake10

Thanks for the link. I'm thinking of skipping 9.2 and going to Cooker,
somewhat out of boredom (everything just works too well!) and somewhat
out of wanting to join in the fun on the Cooker list.

Whaddaya think? My only issue would be the gaming and multimedia
aspects, which I enjoy greatly. I would need to compile my own Nvidia
drivers, I suppose?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The final delusion is the belief that one has lost all delusions.
		-- Maurice Chapelain, "Main courante"
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 16:15:22 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:15:22 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.york
 u.ca>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
 <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.york
 u.ca>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023121320.0289a1b0@pop1.sympatico.ca>

My 9.1 -> 9.2 upgrade went smoothly enough, but the result started strange 
and got stranger. At least I can afford to blow it away and return to 9.1.

At 11:28 AM 10/23/03, you wrote:
>On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 11:21, JoeHill wrote:
> > I wonder if there'll be a 9.3 before a 10.0?
>
>Nope.  The next release will be 10.0, in exactly six months from now.
>Bug hunting and feature plans have already begun.
>http://qa.mandrakesoft.com/twiki/bin/view/Main/Mandrake10
>
>Austin
>--
>                                  Austin Acton
>         Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
>                Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>         MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
>
>
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 16:18:57 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:18:57 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031023120239.48133ded.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 12:02:39 -0400
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com> <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031023120239.48133ded.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031023161857.GA2226@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/23/2003 12:02:39 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> Thanks for the link. I'm thinking of skipping 9.2 and going to  
> Cooker,

I run cooker all the time on two of my three machines.  The trick is to  
update a day or two late, and watch the mailing list to make sure there  
are no "You broke KDE!" or "supermount is using 100% cpu!"  
messages.  ;-)  More help is good though.  Cooker users report a LOT  
more bugs than beta testers.

> somewhat out of boredom (everything just works too well!) and
> somewhat out of wanting to join in the fun on the Cooker list.

Esh... the cooker list I could do without.  100+ emails a day (up to  
200+ during testing season), lots of bickering...

> Whaddaya think? My only issue would be the gaming and multimedia
> aspects, which I enjoy greatly. I would need to compile my own Nvidia
> drivers, I suppose?

Yeah, you would have to recompile nvidia every time you update the  
kernel.  You don't have to update the kernel every time though.

I have a cooker mirror here in toronto.  I don't have enough bandwidth  
to make it public, but I'm working on a solution to that...

Austin
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 16:54:35 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:54:35 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023121320.0289a1b0-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
	<20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<6.0.0.22.2.20031023121320.0289a1b0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031023125435.58234e5b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:15:22 -0400
Elliott Chapin <echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> My 9.1 -> 9.2 upgrade went smoothly enough, but the result started
> strange and got stranger. At least I can afford to blow it away and
> return to 9.1.

What strangeness did you run into exactly?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A dream will always triumph over reality, once it is given the chance.
		-- Stanislaw Lem
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 17:11:58 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:11:58 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <3F97EBC7.2070409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F97EBC7.2070409@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231307400.13406-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

hmm, I never knew about that, the only trick I remember was blocking only 
SYN packets, etc.  Maybe iptables really has gotten better.


On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Madison Kelly wrote:

> IIRC from reading the man page on NMAP or IPTables isn't there a way to 
> setup a box/firewall to not answer port scans? Something about simply 
> not responging unless it is a specific request for the server (ie. 
> http-get request for Apache)? I wish I could remember details but anyway 
> it might be a way to keep Rogers off your back.
> 
> Madison
> 
> serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Well, you'll probably end up with a bunch of angry calls from Rogers, because they officially do not allow having Web (or any other) servers, and AFAIK portscan you periodically.
> > 
> > But, in general, to access your web server from outside, you will have to map port to internal IP, i.e. requests that come to address 24.64.xx.xx port 80 are transfered to 192.18.xx.xx (Web server) port 80.
> > 
> > I am not quite sure about what you mean by "..... how do i setup the domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) connect to that domain".....
> > 
> > 
> > Sergey
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>From: "Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
> >>Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:22:42 EST
> >>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >>Subject: [TLUG]: domains on linux
> >>
> >>hello,
> >>i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers cable, 
> >>i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to setup a web 
> >>server for my website. my problem is i know very little a bout networking, i 
> >>am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, and the address which 
> >>is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the 
> >>webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) 
> >>connect to that domain
> >>
> >>_________________________________________________________________
> >>MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
> >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
> >>
> >>--
> >>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >>
> > 
> > 
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 17:13:54 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:13:54 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031023161857.GA2226-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
	<20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20031023120239.48133ded.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031023161857.GA2226@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031023131354.58de3ff6.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:18:57 -0400
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > Thanks for the link. I'm thinking of skipping 9.2 and going to  
> > Cooker,
> 
> I run cooker all the time on two of my three machines.  The trick is
> to  update a day or two late, and watch the mailing list to make sure
> there  are no "You broke KDE!" or "supermount is using 100% cpu!"  
> messages.  ;-)  More help is good though.  Cooker users report a LOT  
> more bugs than beta testers.
> 
> > somewhat out of boredom (everything just works too well!) and
> > somewhat out of wanting to join in the fun on the Cooker list.
> 
> Esh... the cooker list I could do without.  100+ emails a day (up to  
> 200+ during testing season), lots of bickering...

Is this a seperate list than the one you refer to above, or are you
differentiating between "monitoring" and "participating"? ;-)

> > Whaddaya think? My only issue would be the gaming and multimedia
> > aspects, which I enjoy greatly. I would need to compile my own
> > Nvidia drivers, I suppose?
> 
> Yeah, you would have to recompile nvidia every time you update the  
> kernel.  You don't have to update the kernel every time though.

I just looked at the Nvidia site and they don't appear to have the
sources available anymore :-(, just an executable (.run).

> I have a cooker mirror here in toronto.  I don't have enough bandwidth
>  
> to make it public, but I'm working on a solution to that...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A dream will always triumph over reality, once it is given the chance.
		-- Stanislaw Lem
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 17:26:51 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:26:51 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031023125435.58234e5b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com>
 <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <6.0.0.22.2.20031023121320.0289a1b0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
 <20031023125435.58234e5b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910@pop1.sympatico.ca>

I didn't like the appearance of the boot screen (framed graphically like 
lilo's). Later on the KDE menu tree (opened by the arrow/button at the 
extreme lower left) came up extremely thin (many missing nodes), as if some 
config files had become corrupted; I don't think programs had disappeared. 
I can't remember any more at the moment - am tired and busy

At 12:54 PM 10/23/03, you wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 12:15:22 -0400
>Elliott Chapin <echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> >
> > My 9.1 -> 9.2 upgrade went smoothly enough, but the result started
> > strange and got stranger. At least I can afford to blow it away and
> > return to 9.1.
>
>What strangeness did you run into exactly?
>
>--
>JoeHill
>Registered Linux user #282046
>Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>A dream will always triumph over reality, once it is given the chance.
>                 -- Stanislaw Lem
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From mike-bJIJdQQ8uHW1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 17:41:23 2003
From: mike-bJIJdQQ8uHW1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org (Mike Stok)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:41:23 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000@ratdog.stok.co.uk>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Elliott Chapin wrote:

> I didn't like the appearance of the boot screen (framed graphically like 
> lilo's). Later on the KDE menu tree (opened by the arrow/button at the 
> extreme lower left) came up extremely thin (many missing nodes), as if some 
> config files had become corrupted; I don't think programs had disappeared. 
> I can't remember any more at the moment - am tired and busy

That happened to my system after getting the kde patches.  Apparently (and
I say that 'cos I have run the command but not started a window manager to
see if it worked) this is the explanation (from mandrake club posting):

  It is a known bug in the rpm package included in 9.2. What happens is 
  that when update-menus tries to run during the postinstall process, the 
  package  database is still locked by rpm, so it cannot get the package 
  list for updating the menus. The solution is to run 'update-menus -v' as
  root and that should fix you right up. If that still doesn't work, you 
  probably have made some menu adjustments at the individual user leve. In 
  that case, run update-menus -v as your user after running as root.

Mike

-- 
mike-bJIJdQQ8uHW1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org                    |           The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/       | GPG PGP Key      1024D/059913DA 
mike-yCA+AijkAxlWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org                  | Fingerprint      0570 71CD 6790 7C28 3D60
http://www.exegenix.com/           |                  75D2 9EC4 C1C0 0599 13DA

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 18:07:06 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:07:06 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000-6+bkED/ZP5WJzcU1ue3relpr/1R2p/CL@public.gmane.org
 >
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910@pop1.sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000@ratdog.stok.co.uk> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000@ratdog.stok.co.uk
 >
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023140450.02893ec0@pop1.sympatico.ca>

No luck; and I didn't make any changes that I know about. Also clicking the 
Home icon gets no action. Thanks anyway; I'll probably have time to get 9.1 
back on sometime this weekend.

At 01:41 PM 10/23/03, you wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, Elliott Chapin wrote:
>
> > I didn't like the appearance of the boot screen (framed graphically like
> > lilo's). Later on the KDE menu tree (opened by the arrow/button at the
> > extreme lower left) came up extremely thin (many missing nodes), as if 
> some
> > config files had become corrupted; I don't think programs had disappeared.
> > I can't remember any more at the moment - am tired and busy
>
>That happened to my system after getting the kde patches.  Apparently (and
>I say that 'cos I have run the command but not started a window manager to
>see if it worked) this is the explanation (from mandrake club posting):
>
>   It is a known bug in the rpm package included in 9.2. What happens is
>   that when update-menus tries to run during the postinstall process, the
>   package  database is still locked by rpm, so it cannot get the package
>   list for updating the menus. The solution is to run 'update-menus -v' as
>   root and that should fix you right up. If that still doesn't work, you
>   probably have made some menu adjustments at the individual user leve. In
>   that case, run update-menus -v as your user after running as root.
>
>Mike
>
>--
>mike-bJIJdQQ8uHW1Qrn1Bg8BZw at public.gmane.org                    |           The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
>http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/       | GPG PGP Key      1024D/059913DA
>mike-yCA+AijkAxlWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org                  | Fingerprint      0570 71CD 6790 7C28 3D60
>http://www.exegenix.com/           |                  75D2 9EC4 C1C0 0599 13DA
>
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 18:15:40 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:15:40 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031023131354.58de3ff6.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 13:13:54 -0400
References: <20031022124818.4c269a04.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3F96BB41.6020208@rogers.com> <20031023092828.41b2941b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066920432.2724.7.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031023112106.2c3a594c.joehill@sympatico.ca> <1066922899.2720.14.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031023120239.48133ded.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20031023161857.GA2226@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <20031023131354.58de3ff6.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031023181540.GA2292@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/23/2003 01:13:54 PM, JoeHill wrote:
> I just looked at the Nvidia site and they don't appear to have the
> sources available anymore :-(, just an executable (.run).

Actually, the new nvidia script works very well.  As long as you have  
the kernel source and the XFree source installed, you just run that  
little executable, and it relinks and installs the latest driver.

I've had no problems with it, although I did just buy an Intel card to  
avoid the hassle.  ;-)

Austin
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From linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 18:00:14 2003
From: linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org (ln @post.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 13:00:14 -0500
Subject: Seneca's second annual Open Source Symposium
Message-ID: <20031023180014.65021.qmail@mail.com>


Seneca's second annual Open Source Symposium starts tomorrow (Friday, Oct 24) at 8:30am and finishes whenever everyone leaves. If you plan to attend please register at http://cs.senecac.on.ca/sos2


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 19:15:11 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 21:15:11 +0200 (IST)
Subject: copying launchers to another account
In-Reply-To: <3F960435.B08A7A65-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com>
  <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net> <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310222143380.584@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F960435.B08A7A65@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310232114490.669@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003, aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> "Peter L. Peres" wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003, aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> >
> > > I am trying to find the directory or metafile or whatever that contains
> >
> > locate gnome|grep png
>
> OK, that gave me ninety-four pages (not exaggerating) of filenames.
> Should make for interesting reading...

basename `locate gnome|grep png`|sort|uniq

Peter
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From linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 16:27:30 2003
From: linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org (ln @post.com)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:27:30 -0500
Subject: Seneca's second annual Open Source Symposium starts tomorrow
    (Friday, Oct 24) at 8:30am
Message-ID: <20031023162730.67343.qmail@mail.com>

   Seneca's second annual Open Source Symposium starts tomorrow (Friday, Oct 24) at 8:30am and finishes whenever everyone leaves. If you plan to attend please register at http://cs.senecac.on.ca/sos2

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 20:42:00 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 16:42:00 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023140450.02893ec0-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910@pop1.sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000@ratdog.stok.co.uk>
	<6.0.0.22.2.20031023140450.02893ec0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031023164200.152f0e35.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:07:06 -0400
Elliott Chapin <echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> No luck; and I didn't make any changes that I know about. Also
> clicking the Home icon gets no action. Thanks anyway; I'll probably
> have time to get 9.1 back on sometime this weekend.

Just because KDE is a bit pooched?! Ay Caramba...

I don't go within many miles of KDE if I can help it, so I should be
okay ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed.
		-- Christopher Morley
--
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 21:28:14 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 17:28:14 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Seneca's second annual Open Source Symposium
In-Reply-To: <20031023180014.65021.qmail-O5WfVfzUwx8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023180014.65021.qmail@mail.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231726170.14225-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

you know, I did go last year and it wasn't that big of a deal in case 
anyone becomes disappointed.


On Thu, 23 Oct 2003, ln @post.com wrote:

> 
> Seneca's second annual Open Source Symposium starts tomorrow (Friday, Oct 24) at 8:30am and finishes whenever everyone leaves. If you plan to attend please register at http://cs.senecac.on.ca/sos2
> 
> 
> 

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 00:05:54 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:05:54 -0400
Subject: Seneca's second annual Open Source Symposium
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231726170.14225-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231726170.14225-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <1066953951.2720.1.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Thu, 2003-10-23 at 17:28, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> you know, I did go last year and it wasn't that big of a deal in case 
> anyone becomes disappointed.

Nobody said it was going to be a big deal.  No $10 conference is going
to be THAT spectacular!  ;-)

But if you look at the agenda of speakers, you will see many interesting
presentations.

Austin
-- 
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca


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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 00:26:22 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jay Carson)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 20:26:22 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net-+p+fmPhZGT9zEkMh6vRF2A@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>
Message-ID: <47530.66.11.182.5.1066955182.squirrel@cbits.ca>

I had a website and mail server running on my rogers connection for 2
years with no complaints. They'll probably hassle you if you use alot of
bandwidth or cause problems, such as having an open relay mail server or
something... but I guess they'll leave you alone otherwise... its more
money in their pockets.

> Well, you'll probably end up with a bunch of angry calls from Rogers,
> because they officially do not allow having Web (or any other) servers,
> and AFAIK portscan you periodically.
>
> But, in general, to access your web server from outside, you will have to
> map port to internal IP, i.e. requests that come to address 24.64.xx.xx
> port 80 are transfered to 192.18.xx.xx (Web server) port 80.
>
> I am not quite sure about what you mean by "..... how do i setup the
> domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to
> the router ) connect to that domain".....
>
>
> Sergey
>
>
>>
>> From: "Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>> Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:22:42 EST
>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>> Subject: [TLUG]: domains on linux
>>
>> hello,
>> i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers
>> cable,
>> i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to setup a
>> web
>> server for my website. my problem is i know very little a bout
>> networking, i
>> am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, and the address
>> which
>> is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for
>> the
>> webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router )
>> connect to that domain
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
>> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>>
>> --
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 18:44:35 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 14:44:35 -0400
Subject: copying launchers to another account
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com>
	  <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net> <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310222143380.584@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F960435.B08A7A65@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310232114490.669@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F96D013.2A72FEE3@onlink.net>

"Peter L. Peres" wrote:

>
> basename `locate gnome|grep png`|sort|uniq

bash-2.05a$ basename `locate gnome|grep png`|sort|uniq
bash: /bin/basename: Argument list too long
bash-2.05a$

Chris


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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 02:19:59 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 22:19:59 -0400
Subject: ctrl+alt+f* combo problem
Message-ID: <3F988C4F.7040201@alteeve.com>

Hi all!

   I put together a system last that used a video card and chipset not 
natively supported by the Redhat 9.0 kernel. This doesn't in itself seem 
to be a problem (btw, that is an nVidia 5200fx and an Inted D875PBZ 
mainboard). The only lagging problem is that for some reason the key 
combination <ctrl> + <alt> + <F*> does NOT open a new shell session, in 
fact it seems to do nothing at all.

   First off, what process actually watches for this key combo (so that 
I have a pointer to where I should look) and more has anyone seen this 
problem elsewhere before?

   Any help or pounters is greatly appreciated!!

Madison

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From echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 03:31:49 2003
From: echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Elliott Chapin)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:31:49 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031023164200.152f0e35.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910@pop1.sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000@ratdog.stok.co.uk>
 <6.0.0.22.2.20031023140450.02893ec0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
 <20031023164200.152f0e35.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023233116.028a4a60@pop1.sympatico.ca>

If you use X, what WM do you prefer?

At 04:42 PM 10/23/03, you wrote:
>On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 14:07:06 -0400
>Elliott Chapin <echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> >
> > No luck; and I didn't make any changes that I know about. Also
> > clicking the Home icon gets no action. Thanks anyway; I'll probably
> > have time to get 9.1 back on sometime this weekend.
>
>Just because KDE is a bit pooched?! Ay Caramba...
>
>I don't go within many miles of KDE if I can help it, so I should be
>okay ;-)
>
>--
>JoeHill
>Registered Linux user #282046
>Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed.
>                 -- Christopher Morley
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www3.sympatico.ca/echapin



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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 04:31:31 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 00:31:31 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023233116.028a4a60-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910@pop1.sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000@ratdog.stok.co.uk> <6.0.0.22.2.20031023140450.02893ec0@pop1.sympatico.ca> <20031023164200.152f0e35.joehill@sympatico.ca> <6.0.0.22.2.20031023233116.028a4a60@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F98AB23.8070609@yahoo.ca>

Elliott Chapin wrote:
> If you use X, what WM do you prefer?

An open question I assume? :)

I personally prefer WMaker and/or XFce -- the successor to Blackbox is nice to 
(don't remember the name offhand).

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 05:25:40 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 01:25:40 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: copying launchers to another account
In-Reply-To: <3F96D013.2A72FEE3-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com>
   <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net> <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net> 
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310222143380.584@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F960435.B08A7A65@onlink.net>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310232114490.669@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F96D013.2A72FEE3@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310240111340.2190@xword.rogers.com>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> "Peter L. Peres" wrote:
>
> > basename `locate gnome|grep png`|sort|uniq
>
> bash-2.05a$ basename `locate gnome|grep png`|sort|uniq
> bash: /bin/basename: Argument list too long

   It wouldn't work if there were only 2 arguments, as basename
   doesn't take multiple arguments as file paths.

   And, anyway, it should have been dirname if you want the
   directories.

   Try this:

locate '*gnome*.png' | sed 'ss/[^/]*$ss' | sort -u

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 07:22:37 2003
From: pking123-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Paul King)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 03:22:37 -0400
Subject: ctrl+alt+f* combo problem
In-Reply-To: <3F988C4F.7040201-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F988C4F.7040201@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3F989AFD.12132.2AFA15AC@localhost>

Madison

Did you check to see if maybe the meta key is being mapped to something unusual 
like the "window" key or the "start" key (in between CTRL and ALT on my kb?

To see what the keys are mapped to, use the "dumpkeys" command in an xterm.

Other commands for this kind of stuff: check out manpages for "loadkeys" and 
"keymaps". It is possible to load new keyboard maps (of your own creation) 
using these 3 commands.

Paul

> Hi all!
> 
>    I put together a system last that used a video card and chipset not 
> natively supported by the Redhat 9.0 kernel. This doesn't in itself seem 
> to be a problem (btw, that is an nVidia 5200fx and an Inted D875PBZ 
> mainboard). The only lagging problem is that for some reason the key 
> combination <ctrl> + <alt> + <F*> does NOT open a new shell session, in 
> fact it seems to do nothing at all.
> 
>    First off, what process actually watches for this key combo (so that 
> I have a pointer to where I should look) and more has anyone seen this 
> problem elsewhere before?
> 
>    Any help or pounters is greatly appreciated!!
> 
> Madison
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

=========================================================
Paul King              http://www3.sympatico.ca/pking123/


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From gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 12:54:05 2003
From: gilles.fourchet-zzOxFVvAfJPQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gilles fourchet)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 05:54:05 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: SMC 1255TX with Kernel 2.4.22
Message-ID: <20031024055406.15698.h003.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>

Hi all,

I have an SMC 1255TX (in addition to an Intel eepro
100) on a machine that I would like to install as a
firewall.
I installed Debian (with the kernel 2.2.20) and my card
is recognized via the tulip driver.  No problem.
In order to take advantage of Netfilter, I have
downloaded the kernel 2.4.22 to compile it.  No problem
for the compiltation.  However, when I try to load the
tulip module, it recognized a card which is definitely
not an SMC and of course the card does not work.
Just in case some of you ask the question: yes, I am
sure it is an SMC since it is a brand new nic that I
bought with the box :-).

I went today on the SMC website and it seems that they
are providing the same set of file that the one we have
with the 2.4.22 kernel (at least it is the same files
names since I did not check yet the content).

Any idea?

Thanks for your help.

Gilles
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 13:08:38 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:08:38 -0400
Subject: SMC 1255TX with Kernel 2.4.22
In-Reply-To: <20031024055406.15698.h003.c009.wm-4xi/tfaRJV++TtN3LuOZE8GV+HDSZRyd8ZjxTxpiBLs@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031024055406.15698.h003.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID: <200310240908.39030.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 24 October 2003 08:54, gilles fourchet wrote:

> I installed Debian (with the kernel 2.2.20) and my card
> is recognized via the tulip driver.  No problem.
> In order to take advantage of Netfilter, I have
> downloaded the kernel 2.4.22 to compile it.  No problem
> for the compiltation.  However, when I try to load the
> tulip module, it recognized a card which is definitely
> not an SMC and of course the card does not work.
> Just in case some of you ask the question: yes, I am
> sure it is an SMC since it is a brand new nic that I
> bought with the box :-).

What motherboard?  Can you show us the complete output of lspci?

I've had cards that wouldn't work with 2.4, in a few cases passing the kernel 
the noapic option has made the cards work (the cards were all onboard 8139s 
IIRC).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 13:14:05 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:14:05 -0400
Subject: SCSI adapter preventing boot
Message-ID: <3F99259D.60707@sympatico.ca>

I have an old Adaptec 2940 (aic7870) PCI SCSI board driving a Minolta 
film scanner and an old Sony CD-ROM. This seemed to work okay on Redhat 7.3.

On upgrading to Gentoo 1.4 (which only took five days ...) it seems to 
lock the boot process into a loop. I'm getting messages like:

host 1 abort timed out - bus is being reset
(scsi:0:-1:-1) Disconnected list inconsistency ...
Yikes! There is a loop in the free list ...

and this goes on and on, bumping the pid up by one as it goes.

The card passes its own self test, and identifies the devices correctly. 
Knoppix 3.2 will boot (eventually), but it has disabled the adapter.

Broken card? Broken PCI slot? Termination weirdness? New aic7xxx driver 
issues?

Any suggestions appreciated.

thanks,
  Stewart

(uname -a:
Linux groundhog 2.4.20-gentoo-r7 #1 Thu Oct 23 08:27:01 EDT 2003 i686 
AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux)

-- 
$,="\n";foreach(split('',"\3\3\3c>\0>c\177cc\0~c~``\0cc\177cc"))
{$a++;$_=unpack('B8',$_);tr,01,\40#,;$b[$a%6].=$_};print @b,"\n"

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 13:59:44 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 09:59:44 -0400
Subject: Mandrake 9.2 and LG CD Drives
In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023233116.028a4a60-2rsVQ1puvno7CN7eYweJA/d9D2ou9A/h@public.gmane.org>
References: <6.0.0.22.2.20031023131557.02895910@pop1.sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310231337020.32637-100000@ratdog.stok.co.uk>
	<6.0.0.22.2.20031023140450.02893ec0@pop1.sympatico.ca>
	<20031023164200.152f0e35.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<6.0.0.22.2.20031023233116.028a4a60@pop1.sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031024095944.15f2ccff.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 23 Oct 2003 23:31:49 -0400
Elliott Chapin <echapin-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> If you use X, what WM do you prefer?

Pekwm.

http://pekwm.pekdon.net/

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can only live once, but if you do it right, once is enough.
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 14:03:32 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:03:32 -0400
Subject: SCSI adapter preventing boot
In-Reply-To: <3F99259D.60707-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F99259D.60707@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F993134.4030803@alteeve.com>

A couple things I would check;

   Is the SCSI ID of the Scanner set to the ID of the boot device in the 
adapter's config? Try setting the boot ID# to 0 and set the scanner to 
ID 6.

   Secondly, I ha a customer a while back have boot problems with a RAID 
controller that turned out to be a GRUB problem. He switched to Lilo and 
the problem was solved (I'm sorry, I can't remember the details.).

HTH!

Madison

Stewart C. Russell wrote:
> I have an old Adaptec 2940 (aic7870) PCI SCSI board driving a Minolta 
> film scanner and an old Sony CD-ROM. This seemed to work okay on Redhat 
> 7.3.
> 
> On upgrading to Gentoo 1.4 (which only took five days ...) it seems to 
> lock the boot process into a loop. I'm getting messages like:
> 
> host 1 abort timed out - bus is being reset
> (scsi:0:-1:-1) Disconnected list inconsistency ...
> Yikes! There is a loop in the free list ...
> 
> and this goes on and on, bumping the pid up by one as it goes.
> 
> The card passes its own self test, and identifies the devices correctly. 
> Knoppix 3.2 will boot (eventually), but it has disabled the adapter.
> 
> Broken card? Broken PCI slot? Termination weirdness? New aic7xxx driver 
> issues?
> 
> Any suggestions appreciated.
> 
> thanks,
>  Stewart
> 
> (uname -a:
> Linux groundhog 2.4.20-gentoo-r7 #1 Thu Oct 23 08:27:01 EDT 2003 i686 
> AMD Athlon(tm) XP 1800+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux)
> 

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 19:41:16 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:41:16 -0400
Subject: ftp connection refused
Message-ID: <3F96DD5C.3ADC3FDA@onlink.net>

I am getting the following error trying to ftp into a machine:

bash-2.05a$ ftp 192.168.0.1
ftp: connect: Connection refused
ftp>

and, similarly ...


[chris at hons800 chris]$ ftp 192.168.0.2
ftp: connect: Connection refused
ftp>

It appears that the ftp client is working - just not connecting.

I can PING both boxes from each other.

Both boxes run rh 7.3.

I am working through the 30-screen man page for ftp but it just has
commands
and options - no troubleshooting.

I know there are lots of other file transfer utilities, all of them
probably more
secure than ftp. However, I want to use ftp for a while and then learn
another.

I ran /usr/sbin/ntsysv at each computer and the available services are
vsftpd,
wu-ftp, and tftp - all of them are *not* checked for automatic startup.
But,
again, I don't think the client or the daemon are the culprits here -
just the
connection.

Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep reading the man page in the
meantime -
I'll need all that information anyway.

Thanks,

Chris

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From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 14:24:36 2003
From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:24:36 -0400
Subject: ftp connection refused
Message-ID: <20031024142436.LNHA411563.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>

Looks to me like the connections are being nuked period, it may not have anything to do with ftp at all.

I would check your hosts.allow/hosts.deny in /etc.  I generally see such messages when I try ssh/telnet/ftp into my box from some location that's not in my hosts.allow file.  This should only be an issue if your hosts.deny is set up to nuke everyone (which imho is generally a good idea):
ALL : ALL

Cheers,
-Matt
> 
> From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org
> Date: 2003/10/22 Wed PM 03:41:16 EDT
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: ftp connection refused
> 
> I am getting the following error trying to ftp into a machine:
> 
> bash-2.05a$ ftp 192.168.0.1
> ftp: connect: Connection refused
> ftp>
> 
> and, similarly ...
> 
> 
> [chris at hons800 chris]$ ftp 192.168.0.2
> ftp: connect: Connection refused
> ftp>
> 
> It appears that the ftp client is working - just not connecting.
> 
> I can PING both boxes from each other.
> 
> Both boxes run rh 7.3.
> 
> I am working through the 30-screen man page for ftp but it just has
> commands
> and options - no troubleshooting.
> 
> I know there are lots of other file transfer utilities, all of them
> probably more
> secure than ftp. However, I want to use ftp for a while and then learn
> another.
> 
> I ran /usr/sbin/ntsysv at each computer and the available services are
> vsftpd,
> wu-ftp, and tftp - all of them are *not* checked for automatic startup.
> But,
> again, I don't think the client or the daemon are the culprits here -
> just the
> connection.
> 
> Any help would be appreciated. I'll keep reading the man page in the
> meantime -
> I'll need all that information anyway.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Chris
> 
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 19:49:56 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:49:56 -0400
Subject: copying launchers to another account
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com>
	   <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net> <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net> 
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310222143380.584@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F960435.B08A7A65@onlink.net>
	 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310232114490.669@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <3F96D013.2A72FEE3@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310240111340.2190@xword.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F96DF64.BE5D870E@onlink.net>

"Chris F.A. Johnson" wrote:

>    Try this:
>
> locate '*gnome*.png' | sed 'ss/[^/]*$ss' | sort -u

Any idea which of the following may be my launchers...?
[The only one that looked promising to me was
/usr/share/kontrol-panel/icons - I cd'd into it but it doesn't
look like my launchers.] I know this is a long post - my apologies.

/usr/share/gnome/help/gkb_applet/hu/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gkb_applet/it
/usr/share/gnome/help/glade/C/user-guide/user-guide-images
/usr/share/gnome/help/glade/it/user-guide/user-guide-images
/usr/share/gnome/help/gless/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gmix/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gmix/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnibbles/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnobots2/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-mines/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-stones/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-terminal/da/stylesheet-images
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-terminal/it/stylesheet-images
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-terminal/no/stylesheet-images
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-users-guide/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnome-users-guide/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnotes_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnotes_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnotravex/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnucash/C/image
/usr/share/gnome/help/gnumeric/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gsearchtool/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gsearchtool/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gsearchtool/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gtali/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gtcd/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gtt/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gturing/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gturing/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/guname/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gweather_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/gweather_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/help-browser/C
/usr/share/gnome/help/iagno/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/iagno/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/introduction-to-gnome/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/introduction-to-gnome/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/introduction-to-gnome/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/jbc_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/jbc_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/jbc_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/life_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/life_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/life_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/loadavg_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/loadavg_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/loadavg_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mahjongg/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mailcheck_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mailcheck_applet/da/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mailcheck_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/memload_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/memload_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/memload_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mini-commander_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mini-commander_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mini-commander_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mixer_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mixer_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/mixer_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/modemlights_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/modemlights_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/modemlights_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-quick-reference/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-quick-reference/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-quick-reference/ko/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-quick-reference/no/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-quick-reference/sv/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-screenshot-guidelines/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-user-manual/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-user-manual/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/nautilus-user-manual/ko/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/netload_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/netload_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/netload_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/odometer_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/odometer_applet/fr/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/odometer_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/panel/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/panel/de/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/panel/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/panel/ja/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/printer_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/printer_applet/da/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/printer_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/quicklaunch_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/quicklaunch_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/session/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/session/ja/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/sound-monitor_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/sound-monitor_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/swapload_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/swapload_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/swapload_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/tasklist_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/tickastat_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/tickastat_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/webcontrol_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/webcontrol_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/whereami_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/tickastat_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/webcontrol_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/webcontrol_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/whereami_applet/C/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/whereami_applet/es/figures
/usr/share/gnome/help/whereami_applet/it/figures
/usr/share/gnomeicu/icons/Default
/usr/share/gnomeicu/icons/Eyeballs
/usr/share/gnomeicu/icons/Gradients
/usr/share/gnomeicu/icons/reDubbed
/usr/share/gnome-pilot/glade
/usr/share/gtk-2.0/demo
/usr/share/kontrol-panel/icons
/usr/share/memprof
/usr/share/pixmaps
/usr/share/pixmaps/cards/jokers
/usr/share/pixmaps/gnobots2
/usr/share/pixmaps/gnome-lokkit
/usr/share/pixmaps/gnome-stones
/usr/share/pixmaps/gnotravex
/usr/share/pixmaps/nautilus
/usr/share/pixmaps/nautilus/gnome
/usr/share/pixmaps/nautilus/gnome/sidebar_tab_pieces
/usr/share/pixmaps/nautilus/gnome/throbber
/usr/share/pixmaps/redhat
/usr/share/pixmaps/same-gnome
/usr/share/pixmaps/splash
(END)

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 14:43:32 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:43:32 -0400
Subject: ftp connection refused
In-Reply-To: <3F96DD5C.3ADC3FDA-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96DD5C.3ADC3FDA@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031024104332.0dfc8d5e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 22 Oct 2003 15:41:16 -0400
aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org uttered:

> I know there are lots of other file transfer utilities, all of them
> probably more
> secure than ftp. However, I want to use ftp for a while and then learn
> another.
> 
> I ran /usr/sbin/ntsysv at each computer and the available services are
> vsftpd,
> wu-ftp, and tftp - all of them are *not* checked for automatic
> startup. But,
> again, I don't think the client or the daemon are the culprits here -
> just the
> connection.

"connection refused" really can mean only one of two things, IIRC. The
FTP daemon is just not running, or you do not have rights/access to the
root dir.

I'm not familiar with RH, but there must be a way to show all the
running services. I'm also not familiar with ntsysv, so I don't know if
that shows you what's running or just what's installed.

Try running "top" from a console and look for an ftp daemon running,
that might show you what's up. Another one is "ps ax".

Also, the FTP server should have a configuration utility of some kind,
check in the RH config wizards for FTP and make sure the directory is
accessible to anonymous connections.

In general, I would recommend Apache for serving FTP, easy to config,
esp through something like Webmin.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reality is just a crutch for people who can't handle science fiction.
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 14:52:02 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:52:02 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: sometimes truncation gets things right
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031024105038.23320E-100000@spsystems.net>

The latest bit of wormshit in my mailbox showed up, in the index listing,
as being from "Microsoft Net Mess".  Yeah, that about sums it up.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org


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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 14:59:25 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:59:25 -0400
Subject: Cogeco
In-Reply-To: <3F96C47C.6040408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031024145925.GX20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:55:08PM +0200, Carola Koitz wrote:
> Who has experiences with Cogeco and I also would like to know
> if  Cogeco has port 25 restriction?
> We are currently customers of sympatico with a web and mail server
> at Verio and we would like to change our ISP.

Outgoing bandwidth seems to be painful most of the time.  At least the
guy who works from home in windsor with an IP phone running over IPsec
as bad sound quality and dropouts often.  It is supposed to require only
about 80kbit for a full quality call.  We are running it at 57kbit and
it still has dropsouts frequently.

The connection also just drops every few weeks for a short while.

I know I wouldn't use cogeco if I lived in their service area.

Lennart Sorensen
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From Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 15:12:47 2003
From: Kpanchoo-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Kerry Panchoo)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:12:47 -0400
Subject: P4C800 Motherboard
Message-ID: <3F99416F.1060103@rogers.com>


Has anyone managed to get the Asus P4C800 Deluxe board fully working-- 
i've tried the stuff suggested on the online forums- with very little or 
  no positive results.

I'm running red hat 9.0 with the 2.4.20-20.9smp Kernel

I've got 2 identical SATA 120GB hard disks connected up to the raid and 
one 120GB IDE drive on ide0

the Promise raid - FastTrak 378 doesnt work-- cant get it to run- i set 
the bios to compatible mode and tried to install-- didnt work.. any 
suggestions?

the 3COM gigabit lan drivers are useless-- i got it to work-- but you 
cant go to google etc-- pretty bizzare

Kerry


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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 15:18:06 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:18:06 -0400
Subject: ASUS CD Burner
In-Reply-To: <20031022193607.97452.qmail-/joetn0QaPmA/QwVtaZbd3CJp6faPEW9@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031022193607.97452.qmail@web40709.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20031024151806.GY20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 12:36:07PM -0700, Mel Seder wrote:
> 52X/24X/52X External / USB2.0 / 2MB Buffer / Burnproof ASUS burner
> 
> is 164.95 at computer avenue winnipeg.  I don't mind paying extra for
> quality and wonder if the above ASUS burner is worth the premium?

Does it have to be external?  If so, it probably is worth it.  I have
had nothing but great experience with the Asus burners I have bought.

There is also the option of this:

USB2.0 5-1/4" ATAPI case: $65
Asus 52x CD-RW:           $79
Total:                   $144

That's by getting parts in the Toronto area.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 15:24:19 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:24:19 -0400
Subject: P4C800 Motherboard
In-Reply-To: <3F99416F.1060103-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F99416F.1060103@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031024152419.GZ20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 11:12:47AM -0400, Kerry Panchoo wrote:
> Has anyone managed to get the Asus P4C800 Deluxe board fully working-- 
> i've tried the stuff suggested on the online forums- with very little or 
>  no positive results.
> 
> I'm running red hat 9.0 with the 2.4.20-20.9smp Kernel
> 
> I've got 2 identical SATA 120GB hard disks connected up to the raid and 
> one 120GB IDE drive on ide0
> 
> the Promise raid - FastTrak 378 doesnt work-- cant get it to run- i set 
> the bios to compatible mode and tried to install-- didnt work.. any 
> suggestions?

I would personally use Linux software raid over Promise software raid.
At least with the linux one you can move the raid to another machine in
the future without loosing access to the data.  I also suspect the Linux
software raid is slightly more cpu efficient.

> the 3COM gigabit lan drivers are useless-- i got it to work-- but you 
> cant go to google etc-- pretty bizzare

You can ping other machines on the network?

Have you tried using a 2.4.22 kernel, which has many driver updates.  I
think serial ATA support is a very recent addition to the 2.4 kernels,
and only for a few chipsets.

CHeck the lspci or /proc/pci listing for the SATA controller, and post
it and someone can look up which kernel if any supports that controller.

Lennart Sorensen
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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 15:23:16 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mandrake and LG Drives
Message-ID: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel@cbits.ca>

Hey all, I have an LG cdrom/dvd/cdrw drive (GCC-4120B). Does anyone know
if this model is affected by Mandrake 9.2? Is it all LG drives or just a
few models? Is there a list of drive models where I can check this out?

Thanks

-Jay
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 15:39:07 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:39:07 -0400
Subject: ctrl+alt+f* combo problem
In-Reply-To: <3F988C4F.7040201-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F988C4F.7040201@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031024153907.GB20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 23, 2003 at 10:19:59PM -0400, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all!
> 
>   I put together a system last that used a video card and chipset not 
> natively supported by the Redhat 9.0 kernel. This doesn't in itself seem 
> to be a problem (btw, that is an nVidia 5200fx and an Inted D875PBZ 
> mainboard). The only lagging problem is that for some reason the key 
> combination <ctrl> + <alt> + <F*> does NOT open a new shell session, in 
> fact it seems to do nothing at all.
> 
>   First off, what process actually watches for this key combo (so that 
> I have a pointer to where I should look) and more has anyone seen this 
> problem elsewhere before?
> 
>   Any help or pounters is greatly appreciated!!

Well Left Control + Alt + Fkey is monitored by the X server and switches
to those VTs.  What runs on those VTs is usually determined by inittab.

When not in X, the kernel watches the Control + Alt + Fkey (and Lat +
Fkey) [left side of keyboard again] and switches as appropriate.

If it doesn't work in X, something else has remapped the keys, or is
intercepting them (vmware for example can do that), or the X server is
broken or misconfigured (wrong keymap perhaps?).

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 15:41:08 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:41:08 -0400
Subject: SMC 1255TX with Kernel 2.4.22
In-Reply-To: <20031024055406.15698.h003.c009.wm-4xi/tfaRJV++TtN3LuOZE8GV+HDSZRyd8ZjxTxpiBLs@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031024055406.15698.h003.c009.wm@mail.canada.com.criticalpath.net>
Message-ID: <20031024154108.GC20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 05:54:05AM -0700, gilles fourchet wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> I have an SMC 1255TX (in addition to an Intel eepro
> 100) on a machine that I would like to install as a
> firewall.
> I installed Debian (with the kernel 2.2.20) and my card
> is recognized via the tulip driver.  No problem.
> In order to take advantage of Netfilter, I have
> downloaded the kernel 2.4.22 to compile it.  No problem
> for the compiltation.  However, when I try to load the
> tulip module, it recognized a card which is definitely
> not an SMC and of course the card does not work.
> Just in case some of you ask the question: yes, I am
> sure it is an SMC since it is a brand new nic that I
> bought with the box :-).
> 
> I went today on the SMC website and it seems that they
> are providing the same set of file that the one we have
> with the 2.4.22 kernel (at least it is the same files
> names since I did not check yet the content).
> 
> Any idea?
> 
> Thanks for your help.

The tulip driver is changed a lot in 2.4.  Try the de4x5 driver perhaps.

Lennart Sorensen
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 15:46:15 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:46:15 -0400
Subject: Mandrake and LG Drives
In-Reply-To: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org>
References: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel@cbits.ca>
Message-ID: <20031024114615.6f554ce2.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
"Jason Carson" <jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Hey all, I have an LG cdrom/dvd/cdrw drive (GCC-4120B). Does anyone
> know if this model is affected by Mandrake 9.2? Is it all LG drives or
> just a few models? Is there a list of drive models where I can check
> this out?

*Apparently*, it only affects LG CDROM drives, esp of the cheaper
variety, but there is no definite info AFAIK at this time.

See this thread in the Club forums for whatever people have posted about
their own experiences:

http://www.mandrakeclub.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Splatt_Forum&file=viewtopic&topic=12989&forum=10

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Murphy was an optimist.
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 21:22:03 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:22:03 -0400
Subject: copying launchers to another account
References: <3F71D2F7.3E6C5F52@onlink.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310201512280.882@hot.local.useractive.com> <3F956B67.ABC1B180@onlink.net> <3F957D2E.178F05F4@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F96F4FB.617FC3CC@onlink.net>

aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> Chris Aitken wrote:
>

[...]

>
> I am trying to find the directory or metafile or whatever that contains
> the gnaome panel icons. To that end actually moved *everyting* from
> /home/chris to another folder. Guess what? The icons are still coming
> up! that means that the icons must not be in my home directory anywhere...

I guess I hadn't effectively moved .gconf from /home/chris before, because
I just tried it this morning and it *does* prevent the panel from appearing.
Of
course I had a backup of this directory, but either I pooched the backup or
it
cannot be restored simply by copying the backup into /home/chris, because
that is what I did and now the panel is not showing at all.

Ive lost the launchers and the panel! So, I'm close to finding where the
launchers are saved.

I never thought I'd be glad to see the Start Here icon, but I'm running
everything from  there right now (xterm, netscape, ifup, etc.).

: /

Chris


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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 22 21:45:05 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 2003 17:45:05 -0400
Subject: ftp connection refused
References: <3F96DD5C.3ADC3FDA@onlink.net> <20031024104332.0dfc8d5e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F96FA5F.B3915DA1@onlink.net>

JoeHill wrote:

> "connection refused" really can mean only one of two things, IIRC. The
> FTP daemon is just not running,

Yes, you were right. I went into /sbin/ntsysv application and put a check
beside wu-ftp (so it will startup when linux starts), rebooted the boxes
and voila!

[chris at p166 chris]$ ftp 192.168.0.1
Connected to 192.168.0.1.
220 hons800 FTP server (Version wu-2.6.2-5) ready.
504 AUTH GSSAPI not supported.
504 AUTH KERBEROS_V4 not supported.
KERBEROS_V4 rejected as an authentication type
Name (192.168.0.1:chris):

Thank you.

Chris

: )

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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:06:18 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C.Russell)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:06:18 -0400
Subject: SCSI adapter preventing boot
Message-ID: <20031024170618.UDDG28090.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.18]>

Thanks, Madison, but on re-reading my message once 
it got to the list, I realise I had failed to ask 
a smart question. Sorry.

The machine boots the kernel okay, it's just that 
while the 2940 is initialising, it breaks. None of 
my drives boot from the SCSI card.

Although the card worked fine under 2.4.20 under 
Red Hat, it seems to be unhappy with Gentoo. I 
guess the two things I can try are:

* try rebooting Red Hat 7.3 -- if that works, it 
must be the SCSI driver.

* try fixing the BIOS, as early reports of the 
"new" aic78xx driver seemed to create identical 
error messages to the ones I'm seeing if the BIOS 
is set to some weird performance-enhancing 
settings.

What other issues might I need to consider?

I've half a mind to get an old 2906 and see if 
that works. They are about $20, so no great 
expense there ...

Many thanks,
 Stewart

(who likes Gentoo; quite takes me back to 
the old days of Linux, where it would take lots o' 
troubleshooting to get a machine working. But I 
don't recommend it for those with a low tolerance 
for manual configuration.)


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From gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:17:57 2003
From: gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Glen Strom)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:17:57 -0400
Subject: Anyone Wanna Test a New Linux Distro?
Message-ID: <20031024131757.572b1de9.gstrom@eol.ca>

I hope you don't mind pink. ;->

A Linux Distro for Barbie?
http://qrxx.4t.com/barbieOS.htm


-- 
Glen Strom
gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:27:28 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:27:28 -0400
Subject: Anyone Wanna Test a New Linux Distro?
In-Reply-To: <20031024131757.572b1de9.gstrom-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031024131757.572b1de9.gstrom@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <3F996100.5050004@alteeve.com>

Crap! I was halfway through the article before I realized I was being 
taken...

"Barbie would also be tired of Microsoft's licensing bullshit," he added.

:)

Madison

Glen Strom wrote:
> I hope you don't mind pink. ;->
> 
> A Linux Distro for Barbie?
> http://qrxx.4t.com/barbieOS.htm
> 
> 

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From steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:38:19 2003
From: steellis-MemsRbtxb9FWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Ellis, Steve)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:38:19 -0400
Subject: Anyone Wanna Test a New Linux Distro?
Message-ID: <A37D93BF2888D51197CD00508BBD49C30DAA6CB7@cbexch03.mobility.com>


Of Course Barbie makes M$ seem like good value for money.

Barbie LINUX Distro.... estimates for the cost of the CD $200? That's just
for the logo of course ;-) I wonder if Bill has a hand in Barbie ;-0

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:42:53 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:42:53 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
Message-ID: <3F99649D.1070103@alteeve.com>

I've recently found that users can enter data with leading spaces. I'm 
attempting to kill this without losing the between word spaces.

s/\s+//; removes all spaces.
s/^\s//; and s/^\s//; don't seem to work.

Am I missing something?

Lance

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:48:31 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:48:31 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
In-Reply-To: <3F99649D.1070103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F99649D.1070103@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3F9965EF.6060502@alteeve.com>


s/^ //; don't seem to work either.

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:46:36 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:46:36 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
In-Reply-To: <3F99649D.1070103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F99649D.1070103@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310241346.36916.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 24 October 2003 13:42, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> I've recently found that users can enter data with leading spaces. I'm
> attempting to kill this without losing the between word spaces.
>
> s/\s+//; removes all spaces.
> s/^\s//; and s/^\s//; don't seem to work.
>
> Am I missing something?

A + in the second expression ...

    my $x = '       adsf asdf asdf adsf asdf';
    $x =~ s/^\s+//;

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                       Debian GNU/Linux

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From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:47:18 2003
From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:47:18 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
In-Reply-To: <3F99649D.1070103-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F99649D.1070103@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0310241345190.77182-100000@pyyl.pair.com>

Hi Lance,

When you say that

  s/^\s//;

doesn't work (presumably to remove leading spaces), what do you mean? Are
you sure you are operating on the right variable? For example, don't do

  foreach my $line ( @lines ) {
    s/^\s//;
  }

because $line will remain untouched.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> I've recently found that users can enter data with leading spaces. I'm
> attempting to kill this without losing the between word spaces.
>
> s/\s+//; removes all spaces.
> s/^\s//; and s/^\s//; don't seem to work.
>
> Am I missing something?
>
> Lance
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:53:16 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:53:16 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
In-Reply-To: <200310241346.36916.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F99649D.1070103@alteeve.com> <200310241346.36916.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F99670C.8060809@alteeve.com>

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Friday 24 October 2003 13:42, Lance F. Squire wrote:
> 
> 
>>I've recently found that users can enter data with leading spaces. I'm
>>attempting to kill this without losing the between word spaces.
>>
>>s/\s+//; removes all spaces.
>>s/^\s//; and s/^\s//; don't seem to work.
>>
>>Am I missing something?
> 
> 
> A + in the second expression ...
> 
>     my $x = '       adsf asdf asdf adsf asdf';
>     $x =~ s/^\s+//;
> 

Sorry,

 >>s/^\s//; and s/^\s//; don't seem to work.

should have read:

 >>s/^\s+//; and s/^\s//; don't seem to work.

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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:55:43 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:55:43 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0310241345190.77182-100000-67kBt+DWV1d54TAoqtyWWQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0310241345190.77182-100000@pyyl.pair.com>
Message-ID: <3F99679F.8080401@alteeve.com>

talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote:
> Hi Lance,
> 
> When you say that
> 
>   s/^\s//;
> 
> doesn't work (presumably to remove leading spaces), what do you mean? Are
> you sure you are operating on the right variable? For example, don't do
> 
>   foreach my $line ( @lines ) {
>     s/^\s//;
>   }
> 
> because $line will remain untouched.
> 

Test code in question.

$Uname = $DB->quote($Uname);
print "Uname='$Uname'\n<br>";
#Kill leading and trailing spaces
$Uname =~ s/^\s+//;
print "Remove leading spaces = '$Uname'<br>\n";
$Uname =~ s/\s+$//;
print "Remove trailing spaces = '$Uname'<br>\n";

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From tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 17:57:42 2003
From: tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 13:57:42 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
In-Reply-To: <3F99679F.8080401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0310241345190.77182-100000@pyyl.pair.com> <3F99679F.8080401@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310241357.42558.tlug@deeptown.org>

On October 24, 2003 01:55 pm, Lance F. Squire wrote:
> talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Hi Lance,
> >
> > When you say that
> >
> >   s/^\s//;
> >
> > doesn't work (presumably to remove leading spaces), what do you mean? Are
> > you sure you are operating on the right variable? For example, don't do
> >
> >   foreach my $line ( @lines ) {
> >     s/^\s//;
> >   }
> >
> > because $line will remain untouched.
>
> Test code in question.
>
> $Uname = $DB->quote($Uname);
> print "Uname='$Uname'\n<br>";
> #Kill leading and trailing spaces
> $Uname =~ s/^\s+//;
> print "Remove leading spaces = '$Uname'<br>\n";
> $Uname =~ s/\s+$//;
> print "Remove trailing spaces = '$Uname'<br>\n";

just do it in this way:

$Uname =~ s/(?:^\s+|\s+$)//g;

It will remove trailing spaces from both sides in one call.

All the Best!
Serge
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From talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:07:13 2003
From: talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:07:13 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
In-Reply-To: <3F99679F.8080401-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F99679F.8080401@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0310241403191.77182-100000@pyyl.pair.com>

Hi Lance,

My bad, I should have caught the missing '+' after '\s' .. why are you
calling DB->quote, then trying to get rid of leading and trailing spaces?

If I look at <perldoc DBI>, it suggests that it adds ' to the front and
back of the string. Thus, "  foo" will become "'  foo'" and the regex
won't strip spaces because none of them are leading || trailing.

How about

  $UName =~ s/^\s+//;
  $UName =~ s/\s+$//;
  $UName = $DB->quote($UName);

instead. Or Sergey's clever regex to do it all in one swell foop.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Lance F. Squire wrote:

> talexb-SBdzbUvMQDunS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org wrote:
> > Hi Lance,
> >
> > When you say that
> >
> >   s/^\s//;
> >
> > doesn't work (presumably to remove leading spaces), what do you mean? Are
> > you sure you are operating on the right variable? For example, don't do
> >
> >   foreach my $line ( @lines ) {
> >     s/^\s//;
> >   }
> >
> > because $line will remain untouched.
> >
>
> Test code in question.
>
> $Uname = $DB->quote($Uname);
> print "Uname='$Uname'\n<br>";
> #Kill leading and trailing spaces
> $Uname =~ s/^\s+//;
> print "Remove leading spaces = '$Uname'<br>\n";
> $Uname =~ s/\s+$//;
> print "Remove trailing spaces = '$Uname'<br>\n";
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>

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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:10:39 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C.Russell)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:10:39 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl.
Message-ID: <20031024181039.ZDEF19878.tomts22-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.18]>

Sergey Kuznetsov wrote:
> 
> $Uname =~ s/(?:^\s+|\s+$)//g;

I suspect that the classic two-liner of:

s/^\s+//;
s/\s+$//;

would be at least as quick, easier to understand, and less error-prone.

 Stewart


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From lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:15:53 2003
From: lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Lance F. Squire)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:15:53 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl. (GAAAAA!)
In-Reply-To: <200310241357.42558.tlug-9a/WvBvX2Qpg9hUCZPvPmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0310241345190.77182-100000@pyyl.pair.com> <3F99679F.8080401@alteeve.com> <200310241357.42558.tlug@deeptown.org>
Message-ID: <3F996C59.7070109@alteeve.com>

Sergey Kuznetsov wrote:
> 
> just do it in this way:
> 
> $Uname =~ s/(?:^\s+|\s+$)//g;
> 
> It will remove trailing spaces from both sides in one call.
> 
> All the Best!
> Serge
> --

Thanks Serge,

Unfortunatly during testing this version i realized I had added quotes 
BEFORE trying to remove spaces. (STUUUUPAAAAADDD!!!)

All previous versions work properly now.

Sorry for the trouble,

I'll just go out and Shoot myself now. ;)

Lance

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:15:40 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:15:40 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl. (GAAAAA!)
In-Reply-To: <3F996C59.7070109-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSF.4.44.0310241345190.77182-100000@pyyl.pair.com>
	<3F99679F.8080401@alteeve.com>
	<200310241357.42558.tlug@deeptown.org>
	<3F996C59.7070109@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031024141540.0bea3b2e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:15:53 -0400
"Lance F. Squire" <lance-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I'll just go out and Shoot myself now. ;)

Is there a Perl script for that?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
At the end of your life there'll be a good rest, and no further
activities
are scheduled.
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:23:16 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <3F97EBC7.2070409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>
    <3F97EBC7.2070409@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3559.216.138.194.32.1067019796.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> IIRC from reading the man page on NMAP or IPTables isn't there a way to
> setup a box/firewall to not answer port scans? Something about simply
> not responging unless it is a specific request for the server (ie.
> http-get request for Apache)? I wish I could remember details but anyway
> it might be a way to keep Rogers off your back.

Read up on icmp types, and block echo reply. Careful what you block though.

-- 
Keith
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:47:12 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:47:12 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <3559.216.138.194.32.1067019796.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]>
	<3F97EBC7.2070409@alteeve.com>
	<3559.216.138.194.32.1067019796.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031024144712.169286fe.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Careful what you block though.

Ya, I went into full stealth mode once, couldn't even send an e-mail.

What a great loss for humanity was that 10 minutes ;-)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The state of innocence contains the germs of all future sin.
		-- Alexandre Arnoux, "Etudes et caprices"
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:40:34 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:40:34 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3577.216.138.194.32.1067020834.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> hello,
> i have a router that distributes my internet connection from rogers
> cable, i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to
> setup a web server for my website. my problem is i know very little a
> bout networking, i am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network,
> and the address which is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i
> setup the domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently
> connected to the router ) connect to that domain

Internal (rfc1918) Ips are non-routable, so you will need to port forward
your public services to the server through the router.

You're also going to need to set up a dns server so the world can find
your domain. From the sounds of it, you're fairly new, so I would suggest
bind9 as a reasonable dsn server for now.

DNS basically runs the Internet, it maps the domains to the IPs, and
without it you can provide very limited access to your servers (basically
by IP only).

Once bind9 is set up, you will need to register your domain and map it to
your dns server. Talk to your domain registrar about how to go about this,
many of them have a web-enabled interface to use for this.

Read the networking3-howto (google for it) for a 10,000 ft overview on how
networking is done, and after that you'll be ready for more questions. Pay
attention to NAT and port forwarding. The knowledge you pick up in that
doc will help you understand a bit more about what you're doing when it
comes time to configure the router or firewall to allow restricted access
to the webserver and to deny access where you don't want it.

After bind9 and the port forwarding are taken care of, it's a relatively
simple matter to install and configure apache as a web server.

It's a bit intimidating at first if you're not familiar with networking
etc., but it's not rocket science. Just stick with it and bring any
further questions back to the list, and you'll get there.

Good luck with it.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 18:53:08 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 14:53:08 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Cogeco
In-Reply-To: <3F96C47C.6040408-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3654.216.138.194.32.1067021588.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Hi
>
> Who has experiences with Cogeco and I also would like to know
> if  Cogeco has port 25 restriction?
> We are currently customers of sympatico with a web and mail server
> at Verio and we would like to change our ISP.

There may be other options available to you than cable. Sympatico et al
are great if all you want to do is surf, download etc., but can be a bit
rough if you want to run servers.

Cable connectivity has a higher bandwidth ceiling than ADSL etc., but that
ceiling is not stable, fluctuating with shared usage on the trunk, etc.
Also, being a bigger ISP (I think Cogeco is a layer 1 provider) could mean
that they may eventually block certain ports sooner than later.

If this is a commercial account, I would suggest going with a mini-ISP
that has decent support (you can talk to a reasonably knowledgable tech
with a phone call), pricing plan etc., as they are more likely to be able
to respond to your needs more than any of the monopolists will.

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 20:13:52 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:13:52 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ProtFTP Troubles
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241609040.11957@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

Hi
A user on my ftp server is having trouble uploading files, he was able to
send when he first logged in but had to cancel his transfer for a moment.
Now tht he wishes to continue with his upload he gets
STOR //Ut_goty_cd1.iso  550 //Ut_goty_cd1.iso: Permission denied.  Any
ideas on how to fix this? My upload dir is set like so:

<Directory /home/gbell72/ftproot/upload/*>
Umask 022 022
AllowOverwrite on
<Limit MKD XMKD RNRF RNTO DELE RMD XRMD STOR>
AllowAll
</Limit>
</Directory>

thanks

gbell
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From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 20:36:23 2003
From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 16:36:23 -0400
Subject: ProtFTP Troubles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241609040.11957-7AabXjx/j0tRUybjY9n7NJR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241609040.11957@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCKEELCGAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>

I don't remember all of the options but remember that you must explicitly
allow replace.  Possibly have the user delete the file, seems to be allowed
and then reupload.

Grant Cullen
JADALL Consulting Ltd.
grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
416-706-4447

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of gbell72
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 16:14
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: ProtFTP Troubles


Hi
A user on my ftp server is having trouble uploading files, he was able to
send when he first logged in but had to cancel his transfer for a moment.
Now tht he wishes to continue with his upload he gets
STOR //Ut_goty_cd1.iso  550 //Ut_goty_cd1.iso: Permission denied.  Any
ideas on how to fix this? My upload dir is set like so:

<Directory /home/gbell72/ftproot/upload/*>
Umask 022 022
AllowOverwrite on
<Limit MKD XMKD RNRF RNTO DELE RMD XRMD STOR>
AllowAll
</Limit>
</Directory>

thanks

gbell
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 21:06:32 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:06:32 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ProtFTP Troubles
In-Reply-To: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCKEELCGAA.grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCKEELCGAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241704250.12122@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

I've added AllowStoreRestart to my config but it still comes back to him
permission denied..also whenever he attempts to start a new file he gets
same thing..and as far as i can tell I've not edited anything that would
be preventing him from doing so.

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Grant Cullen wrote:

> I don't remember all of the options but remember that you must explicitly
> allow replace.  Possibly have the user delete the file, seems to be allowed
> and then reupload.
>
> Grant Cullen
> JADALL Consulting Ltd.
> grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
> 416-706-4447
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of gbell72
> Sent: Friday, October 24, 2003 16:14
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: [TLUG]: ProtFTP Troubles
>
>
> Hi
> A user on my ftp server is having trouble uploading files, he was able to
> send when he first logged in but had to cancel his transfer for a moment.
> Now tht he wishes to continue with his upload he gets
> STOR //Ut_goty_cd1.iso  550 //Ut_goty_cd1.iso: Permission denied.  Any
> ideas on how to fix this? My upload dir is set like so:
>
> <Directory /home/gbell72/ftproot/upload/*>
> Umask 022 022
> AllowOverwrite on
> <Limit MKD XMKD RNRF RNTO DELE RMD XRMD STOR>
> AllowAll
> </Limit>
> </Directory>
>
> thanks
>
> gbell
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 21:24:04 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:24:04 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: leading spaces and Perl. (GAAAAA!)
In-Reply-To: <20031024141540.0bea3b2e.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031024141540.0bea3b2e.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031024172326.27133D-100000@spsystems.net>

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:
> > I'll just go out and Shoot myself now. ;)
> 
> Is there a Perl script for that?

I'm sure there are half a dozen, with different options, all claiming
to be the best. :-)

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 21:27:51 2003
From: f.e.jack-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Andy Jack)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:27:51 -0400
Subject: ProtFTP Troubles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241704250.12122-7AabXjx/j0tRUybjY9n7NJR8nzhMnQZF/mqnPsBvoffFpvyHdVPjngC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCKEELCGAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241704250.12122@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031024212751.GA1851@seahorse>

On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 05:06:32PM -0400, gbell72 wrote:
> I've added AllowStoreRestart to my config but it still comes back to him
> permission denied..also whenever he attempts to start a new file he gets
> same thing..and as far as i can tell I've not edited anything that would
> be preventing him from doing so.
> 

Do you know if he has exceeded his diskspace quota?  That might prevent
him from u/l'ing more.

Andy
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From gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 21:36:54 2003
From: gbell72-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (gbell72)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 17:36:54 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: ProtFTP Troubles
In-Reply-To: <20031024212751.GA1851-5ttTcWKSjlQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCKEELCGAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241704250.12122@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <20031024212751.GA1851@seahorse>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241733480.12198@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>



On Fri, 24 Oct 2003, Andy Jack wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 05:06:32PM -0400, gbell72 wrote:
> > I've added AllowStoreRestart to my config but it still comes back to him
> > permission denied..also whenever he attempts to start a new file he gets
> > same thing..and as far as i can tell I've not edited anything that would
> > be preventing him from doing so.
> >
>
> Do you know if he has exceeded his diskspace quota?  That might prevent
> him from u/l'ing more.

  Impossible for him to have gone over quota seeing he just got this
  account and only uploaded like 2 Mb so far.  I'm assuming it's a
  permissions problem but Im unsure how to set it right so he's able to
  read and write to the dir's again.
  When I configured everything I did chown -R ftp ftp-users
  /home/gbell72/ftproot and chmod -R 770 /home/gbell72/ftproot.




>
> Andy
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 22:51:04 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:51:04 -0400
Subject: port 4662 ?
In-Reply-To: <20031016081914.GA843-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031016075230.GA778@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031016075901.GA26427@anarchy.ca> <20031016081914.GA843@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031024225104.GA310@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 04:19:14AM -0400, William Park wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 03:59:01AM -0400, Chris MacDonald wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 16, 2003 at 03:52:30AM -0400, William Park wrote:
> > > What uses TCP port 4662 ?  I'm being flooded with SYN packets.
> > 
> > http://www.seifried.org/security/ports/4000/4662.html
> > 
> > Peer to peer crap. Ignore it.
> 
> Bookmarked.  Thanks.
> 
> > 
> > > While on the subject, is there more complete version of /etc/services,
> > > so that I can tell which ports is usually reserved for which programs?
> > 
> > Google. Neohapsis also has a good list that includes just about everything
> > including which backdoors and viruses use particular ports.

Official version is at
    http://www.iana.org/assignments/port-numbers

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 24 23:43:42 2003
From: markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Fiifi Markin)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:43:42 +0000
Subject: domains on linux
Message-ID: <BAY2-F119sfGdMNFmWA00000fa2@hotmail.com>

i am running on rh9, and the latest version of apache(which for some reason 
cannot resolve the host name with the ip, but it runs!!)
and i have a few open ports like ssh, ftp, and http

_________________________________________________________________
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 08:18:15 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:18:15 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
Message-ID: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net>

Does anyone know a good site with easy step-by-step through ftp? I'm
getting confused with setting remote and local dirs, when to cd and why,

which machine to do what from, whether to put or get. I'm reading lots
of
material I've found on the web, man ftp, ftp --help, but have not found
an
easy how-to.

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 08:55:11 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:55:11 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F97976E.3C2DFD6D@onlink.net>

aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> Does anyone know a good site with easy step-by-step through ftp?

I found some info on google:

                      Getting Files From a Remote Host

                      Once connected, you will be at the ftp> prompt. You
may have to move around in the directory
                      structure of the remote host. To get a listing of the
current directory, use the command ls (just like
                      in Unix). To get a long listing, use the ls -l
command. To move to a different directory, use the cd
                      command. Once you get to the place where the file you
wish to retrieve is, use the command get to
                      copy the file from the remote host to your Unix
directory:

                             get filename

problem is that every time I try to cd into the remote directory I get...

ftp> cd /locbudrv
550 /locbudrv: No such file or directory.

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 08:57:42 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:57:42 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3F97976E.3C2DFD6D@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F979806.714C6E2F@onlink.net>

aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:

>
> problem is that every time I try to cd into the remote directory I get...
>
> ftp> cd /locbudrv
> 550 /locbudrv: No such file or directory.

I thought maybe the problem is permissions, so
I did a chmod 777 /locbudrv at the remote PC.
Still I get the above error.

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 08:59:56 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 04:59:56 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3F97976E.3C2DFD6D@onlink.net> <3F979806.714C6E2F@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F97988B.E2B5A49B@onlink.net>

aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> I thought maybe the problem is permissions, so
> I did a chmod 777 /locbudrv at the remote PC.
> Still I get the above error.

On the remote machine, /locbudrv is on the primary
slave drive - I don't know if that matters.

>
> Chris

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 03:38:33 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:38:33 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
In-Reply-To: <3F979806.714C6E2F-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3F97976E.3C2DFD6D@onlink.net>
    <3F979806.714C6E2F@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3959.216.138.194.32.1067053113.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>
>>
>> problem is that every time I try to cd into the remote directory I
>> get...
>>
>> ftp> cd /locbudrv
>> 550 /locbudrv: No such file or directory.
>
> I thought maybe the problem is permissions, so
> I did a chmod 777 /locbudrv at the remote PC.
> Still I get the above error.

Try cd locbudrv ...the preceding slash could be the issue

-- 
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 03:44:20 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 23:44:20 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
In-Reply-To: <3F978EC7.8003D05A-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3973.216.138.194.32.1067053460.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Does anyone know a good site with easy step-by-step through ftp? I'm
> getting confused with setting remote and local dirs, when to cd and why,
>
> which machine to do what from, whether to put or get. I'm reading lots
> of material I've found on the web, man ftp, ftp --help, but have not
> found an easy how-to.

What are you using for a client? I use ncftp, and it's good enough that
I've pretty much forgotten how to use any others. The ncftp man pages have
all the info you need.

-- 
Keith
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 04:04:57 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:04:57 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
References: <BAY2-F140IT0HQT4j8700006f32@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <001b01c39aad$27c46d30$0a01a8c0@viper>


I would give this guy a copy of my Linux System that does this and many
other cool services.
In the short term it would be useful, but in the long term, I think it would
be a dis-service.

I think everyone needs to build their own system up as they see fit, thus
also making better admins.


/teddy




----- Original Message -----
From: "Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
To: <tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2003 10:22 AM
Subject: [TLUG]: domains on linux


> hello,
> i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers
cable,
> i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to setup a web
> server for my website. my problem is i know very little a bout networking,
i
> am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my network, and the address which
> is comminf from rogers is a 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the
> webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected to the router )
> connect to that domain
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>


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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 09:32:40 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:32:40 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3F97976E.3C2DFD6D@onlink.net>
	    <3F979806.714C6E2F@onlink.net> <3959.216.138.194.32.1067053113.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <3F97A038.C4BA89AD@onlink.net>

Keith Mastin wrote:

> > aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>
> > I thought maybe the problem is permissions, so
> > I did a chmod 777 /locbudrv at the remote PC.
> > Still I get the above error.
>
> Try cd locbudrv ...the preceding slash could be the issue

Sorry, I should have mentioned I already tried that:

ftp> cd locbudrv
550 locbudrv: No such file or directory.

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 09:40:20 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:40:20 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3973.216.138.194.32.1067053460.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <3F97A204.FFE27367@onlink.net>

Keith Mastin wrote:

> What are you using for a client?

wu-2.6.2-5

> I use ncftp, and it's good enough that
> I've pretty much forgotten how to use any others. The ncftp man pages have
> all the info you need.

OK, those 32 screen should keep me busy for a while. Thanks, Keith.

And to show my appreciation, I'll collect on any bad debts you have up
here in Timmins. I'll take 10% off the top of course...

; )

Chris


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 04:10:06 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:10:06 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
In-Reply-To: <3F97A038.C4BA89AD-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3F97976E.3C2DFD6D@onlink.net>   
    <3F979806.714C6E2F@onlink.net>
    <3959.216.138.194.32.1067053113.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <3F97A038.C4BA89AD@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <4159.216.138.194.32.1067055006.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> > aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>>
>> > I thought maybe the problem is permissions, so
>> > I did a chmod 777 /locbudrv at the remote PC.
>> > Still I get the above error.
>>
>> Try cd locbudrv ...the preceding slash could be the issue
>
> Sorry, I should have mentioned I already tried that:
>
> ftp> cd locbudrv
> 550 locbudrv: No such file or directory.

Okay then.. whats the result of pwd (print working directory)? Where do
you have the root directory set in the ftp configs?

Is this server for anonymous ftp, real users, ...? What ftp server
software are you running?

Use pwd to find where you are in a system. If you have a secure server it
should show your /home dir as /, meaning you can't go outside of it or see
the system files upstream from the home dir. If you're in an anonymous
server it will again show the ftp root dir and running pwd should show 4
dirs: bin, etc, lib and pub. You need to cd pub to see the files and dirs
inside it.

I think you might benefit from reading up on chroot if your not familiar
with it. It's a good idea if you value your ftp server's integrity.

Cheers,

-- 
Keith
--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 04:17:28 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 00:17:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
In-Reply-To: <3F97A204.FFE27367-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net>
    <3973.216.138.194.32.1067053460.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <3F97A204.FFE27367@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <4173.216.138.194.32.1067055448.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Keith Mastin wrote:
>
>> What are you using for a client?
>
> wu-2.6.2-5

:)

... thats a server, and one with a marked history I might add. vsftpd is a
breeze to configure, I think it's available in an rpm (you're a redhat
guy, right?) and it's considered if not THE best, one of them. At least
take a look at it.

>> I use ncftp, and it's good enough that I've pretty much forgotten how
>> to use any others. The ncftp man pages have all the info you need.
>
> OK, those 32 screen should keep me busy for a while. Thanks, Keith.
>
> And to show my appreciation, I'll collect on any bad debts you have up
> here in Timmins. I'll take 10% off the top of course...
>
> ; )
>
> Chris

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. If I ever need a favor... you know... 
"between friends"   ... I can come to you, right? (I think I been watching
too many old gangster movies or something... )

Cheers,

-- 
Keith
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 10:03:00 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:03:00 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3973.216.138.194.32.1067053460.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <3F97A754.E303EF5A@onlink.net>

OK - I'm OK now.

ftp> get hons800bckup.gz.tar
local: hons800bckup.gz.tar remote: hons800bckup.gz.tar
227 Entering Passive Mode (192,168,0,1,81,231)
150 Opening BINARY mode data connection for hons800bckup.gz.tar (127 bytes).
226 Transfer complete.
127 bytes received in 0.0096 seconds (13 Kbytes/s)

Since ftp dumps me into the home dir of the account I log in as on the
remote machine, I just threw the file I want to transfer in there. Then
it showed up when I did an ls -a on the remote directory (I just couldn't
cd higher than that home dir for some reason)  - thanks to Jing Su for
getting me to focus on what I can see where I was.

Otherwise I would have had to give away the keys to the castle to give
permissions to get all the way to the slave drive on the remote machine.
That kind of security hole is not warranted here. Thanks to Keith for
showing up - I always think harder about security when he's lurking...

Chris

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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 10:12:39 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:12:39 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net> <3F97976E.3C2DFD6D@onlink.net>   
	    <3F979806.714C6E2F@onlink.net>
	    <3959.216.138.194.32.1067053113.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	    <3F97A038.C4BA89AD@onlink.net> <4159.216.138.194.32.1067055006.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <3F97A997.119628D2@onlink.net>

Keith Mastin wrote:

> Okay then.. whats the result of pwd (print working directory)?

Always /

> Where do
> you have the root directory set in the ftp configs?

I guess at  /home/chris on the remote machine - that was the
problem - I could never cd higher than that (to get to /dev/hdb2
a.k.a. /locbudrv on the remote machine). I don't know how to
set the root directory in the ftp configs, as you put it - I'll have
to learn that.

> Is this server for anonymous ftp, real users, ...? What ftp server
> software are you running?

I'm just using it to back up my home directory across the network.
I'm trying to implement a plan in which I have a local backup (to slave
drive), network backup (to another machine), and off-site backup (to,
say, a floppy, if the tar.gz will fit, or a cd, which will be my next
enjoyable headache to configure).

> Use pwd to find where you are in a system. If you have a secure server it
> should show your /home dir as /, meaning you can't go outside of it or see
> the system files upstream from the home dir.

OK - I see that now.

> If you're in an anonymous
> server it will again show the ftp root dir and running pwd should show 4
> dirs: bin, etc, lib and pub. You need to cd pub to see the files and dirs
> inside it.

That's a little beyond me tonight, but will probably seem embarassingly
simple tomorrow.

> I think you might benefit from reading up on chroot if your not familiar
> with it.

I'm not.

> It's a good idea if you value your ftp server's integrity.

OK, thanks for the 411.

Goodnight.

Chris


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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 23 10:18:32 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 06:18:32 -0400
Subject: easy step-by-step through ftp?
References: <3F978EC7.8003D05A@onlink.net>
	    <3973.216.138.194.32.1067053460.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	    <3F97A204.FFE27367@onlink.net> <4173.216.138.194.32.1067055448.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <3F97AAF8.B303FB2@onlink.net>

Keith Mastin wrote:

> > Keith Mastin wrote:
> >
> >> What are you using for a client?
> >
> > wu-2.6.2-5
>
> :)
>
> ... thats a server, and one with a marked history I might add. vsftpd is a
> breeze to configure, I think it's available in an rpm (you're a redhat
> guy, right?)

It will be S.u.S.E. before long - I'd like to go to Europe for a year or two.

> and it's considered if not THE best, one of them. At least
> take a look at it.

OK

> >> I use ncftp, and it's good enough that I've pretty much forgotten how
> >> to use any others. The ncftp man pages have all the info you need.

Yeah, I see there's no command line left in that one - or so the man page
implies.

> > OK, those 32 screen should keep me busy for a while. Thanks, Keith.
> >
> > And to show my appreciation, I'll collect on any bad debts you have up
> > here in Timmins. I'll take 10% off the top of course...
> >
> > ; )
> >
> > Chris
>
> Okay, I'll keep that in mind. If I ever need a favor... you know...
> "between friends"   ... I can come to you, right? (I think I been watching
> too many old gangster movies or something... )

Yeah, we'll keep it in da fam'ly y'hea'?

Don Christoforo

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 13:26:45 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 09:26:45 -0400
Subject: Mandrake and LG Drives
In-Reply-To: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org>
References: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel@cbits.ca>
Message-ID: <20031025092645.281cf1e8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
"Jason Carson" <jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Hey all, I have an LG cdrom/dvd/cdrw drive (GCC-4120B). Does anyone
> know if this model is affected by Mandrake 9.2? Is it all LG drives or
> just a few models? Is there a list of drive models where I can check
> this out?

A page has now been added to the Mandrake Twiki here, i think you will
be okay:

http://mandrake.vmlinuz.ca/bin/view/Main/LGcdrom

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't abandon hope.  Your Captain Midnight decoder ring arrives
tomorrow.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 14:32:37 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 10:32:37 -0400
Subject: Mandrake and LG Drives
In-Reply-To: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org>
References: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel@cbits.ca>
Message-ID: <20031025103237.5964483f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
"Jason Carson" <jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Hey all, I have an LG cdrom/dvd/cdrw drive (GCC-4120B). Does anyone
> know if this model is affected by Mandrake 9.2? Is it all LG drives or
> just a few models? Is there a list of drive models where I can check
> this out?

LOL! Ok, one more, this is the list so far:

you'll notice your drive is on the "works" list.

fried:
COMPAQ CRD-8322B(CP1)
CRD-8400B (machine: Dell Optiplex gx1)
CRD-8400B (machine: IBM PC 300 PL)
CDR-8400B(mi)
CRD-8400C
COMPAQ CRD-8402B
LG CRD-8480C (machine: Old Dell XPS T650r)
GCR-8481B (machine: Dell Optiplex gx270; rom: 1.06; date: jun 2003)
CRD-8482B (machine: Dell Optiplex GX1)
GOLDSTAR CDR-8482B (machine: HP Vectra VL400; firmware: 1.01)
CRD-8482B (Dell Precision 220, rom: 1.05)
LG ???? (machine: HP Vectras VL4xx)
GCC 4480B DVD/CD-R/RW/CDROM (firmware 1.00 - upgrading firmware to 
1.01 workarounds problem)

work:
LG GMA-4020B DVD-RW
LG GCC-4120B CDRW/DVD
LG CD-RW CED-8080B DVD/CD-R/RW/CDROM
LG CD-RW CED-8120B (motherboard: ASUS K7M)
HL-DT-ST GCC-4480B (machine: Shuttle SB 62 G2 - i865/ICH5; firmware 
1.01 - WARNING, firmware 1.00 is reported to have the fry problem!)
HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4480B (motherboard: ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe)
HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8161B (motherboard: Soyo)
HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8240B
HL-DT-ST GCE-8481B CD-CDRW (chipset: SIS 651/962)
HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8520B
HL-DT-ST GCE-8520B (motherboard: ASUS P4P800)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can't get there from here.
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From jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 15:01:50 2003
From: jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org (Jason Carson)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 11:01:50 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: Mandrake and LG Drives
In-Reply-To: <20031025103237.5964483f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel@cbits.ca>
    <20031025103237.5964483f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <51325.66.11.182.5.1067094110.squirrel@cbits.ca>

Sweet, I was hoping I wouldn't have to go out and buy a new cd-rom drive.

> On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:23:16 -0400 (EDT)
> "Jason Carson" <jay-ZPnsNkHkFjk at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>> Hey all, I have an LG cdrom/dvd/cdrw drive (GCC-4120B). Does anyone
>> know if this model is affected by Mandrake 9.2? Is it all LG drives or
>> just a few models? Is there a list of drive models where I can check
>> this out?
>
> LOL! Ok, one more, this is the list so far:
>
> you'll notice your drive is on the "works" list.
>
> fried:
> COMPAQ CRD-8322B(CP1)
> CRD-8400B (machine: Dell Optiplex gx1)
> CRD-8400B (machine: IBM PC 300 PL)
> CDR-8400B(mi)
> CRD-8400C
> COMPAQ CRD-8402B
> LG CRD-8480C (machine: Old Dell XPS T650r)
> GCR-8481B (machine: Dell Optiplex gx270; rom: 1.06; date: jun 2003)
> CRD-8482B (machine: Dell Optiplex GX1)
> GOLDSTAR CDR-8482B (machine: HP Vectra VL400; firmware: 1.01)
> CRD-8482B (Dell Precision 220, rom: 1.05)
> LG ???? (machine: HP Vectras VL4xx)
> GCC 4480B DVD/CD-R/RW/CDROM (firmware 1.00 - upgrading firmware to
> 1.01 workarounds problem)
>
> work:
> LG GMA-4020B DVD-RW
> LG GCC-4120B CDRW/DVD
> LG CD-RW CED-8080B DVD/CD-R/RW/CDROM
> LG CD-RW CED-8120B (motherboard: ASUS K7M)
> HL-DT-ST GCC-4480B (machine: Shuttle SB 62 G2 - i865/ICH5; firmware
> 1.01 - WARNING, firmware 1.00 is reported to have the fry problem!)
> HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4480B (motherboard: ASUS A7N8X-Deluxe)
> HL-DT-STDVD-ROM GDR8161B (motherboard: Soyo)
> HL-DT-ST CD-RW GCE-8240B
> HL-DT-ST GCE-8481B CD-CDRW (chipset: SIS 651/962)
> HL-DT-ST CD-ROM GCR-8520B
> HL-DT-ST GCE-8520B (motherboard: ASUS P4P800)
> --
> JoeHill
> Registered Linux user #282046
> Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> You can't get there from here.
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>

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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 17:30:16 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 13:30:16 -0400
Subject: leading spaces and Perl. (GAAAAA!)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031024172326.27133D-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031024172326.27133D-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <3F9AB328.3080804@sympatico.ca>

Henry Spencer wrote:
> 
> I'm sure there are half a dozen, with different options, all claiming
> to be the best. :-)

(vastly off-topic now) No, I think that most Perl hackers would agree 
that that's taken by Damian Conway's SelfGOL program: "an obfuscated, 
self-aware, viral quine that can:

* self-replicate,
* rewrite other Perl programs to allow them to self-replicate,
* detect un-rewritable Perl programs,
* execute itself or other Perl programs as cellular automata of
   arbitrary size (to play Conway's "Game of Life"),
* animate any short text as a cycling marquee banner.

SelfGOL accomplishes these feats in under 1000 bytes of standard Perl, 
without importing any modules, and without using a single if, unless, 
while, until, for, foreach, goto, next, last, redo, map, or grep."

Fear it.

  Stewart

-- 
$,="\n";foreach(split('',"\3\3\3c>\0>c\177cc\0~c~``\0cc\177cc"))
{$a++;$_=unpack('B8',$_);tr,01,\40#,;$b[$a%6].=$_};print @b,"\n"

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From drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 18:02:55 2003
From: drew-vnkfHpbZfesgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org (Andrew G. Hammond)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 14:02:55 -0400
Subject: domains on linux
In-Reply-To: <3F97EBC7.2070409-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023145046.FYYO1625.tomts24-srv.bellnexxia.net@[209.226.175.20]> <3F97EBC7.2070409@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3F9ABACF.7090804@xyzzy.dhs.org>

You have to patch in the iptables string module and then match against 
HTTP queries on port 80. Very effective at blocking L3 scanners. I'm 
hoping they'll include the string module in 2.6 after it gets outa 
feature freeze. There was a recent LJ article about blocking KaZaA that 
demonstrates the use of that module rather well.

Drew


Madison Kelly wrote:

> IIRC from reading the man page on NMAP or IPTables isn't there a way 
> to setup a box/firewall to not answer port scans? Something about 
> simply not responging unless it is a specific request for the server 
> (ie. http-get request for Apache)? I wish I could remember details but 
> anyway it might be a way to keep Rogers off your back.
>
> Madison
>
> serge_ss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org wrote:
>
>> Well, you'll probably end up with a bunch of angry calls from Rogers, 
>> because they officially do not allow having Web (or any other) 
>> servers, and AFAIK portscan you periodically.
>>
>> But, in general, to access your web server from outside, you will 
>> have to map port to internal IP, i.e. requests that come to address 
>> 24.64.xx.xx port 80 are transfered to 192.18.xx.xx (Web server) port 80.
>>
>> I am not quite sure about what you mean by "..... how do i setup the 
>> domain for the webserver and have my other hosts (cuttently connected 
>> to the router ) connect to that domain".....
>>
>>
>> Sergey
>>
>>
>>
>>> From: "Fiifi Markin" <markino_05-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org>
>>> Date: 2003/10/23 Thu AM 10:22:42 EST
>>> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>>> Subject: [TLUG]: domains on linux
>>>
>>> hello,
>>> i have a router that distributes my internet connection from  rogers 
>>> cable, i am connected to the router on a dhcp protocol, and i wan to 
>>> setup a web server for my website. my problem is i know very little 
>>> a bout networking, i am using internal ip's(192.168.....) for my 
>>> network, and the address which is comminf from rogers is a 
>>> 24.64....... how do i setup the domain for the webserver and have my 
>>> other hosts (cuttently connected to the router ) connect to that domain
>>>
>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*  
>>> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
>
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 20:16:04 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 16:16:04 -0400
Subject: Mandrake and LG Drives
In-Reply-To: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel-ZPnsNkHkFjk@public.gmane.org>
References: <48456.66.11.182.5.1067008996.squirrel@cbits.ca>
Message-ID: <1067112962.2724.0.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Fri, 2003-10-24 at 11:23, Jason Carson wrote:
> Hey all, I have an LG cdrom/dvd/cdrw drive (GCC-4120B). Does anyone know
> if this model is affected by Mandrake 9.2? Is it all LG drives or just a
> few models? Is there a list of drive models where I can check this out?

That model is reported to work fine.
There will be an official announcement about this problem on Monday or
Tuesday I think.
Austin
-- 
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 21:20:00 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:20:00 +0200 (IST)
Subject: hot water rises to google's mouth by way of ip lawsuits
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310252318010.1636@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


trademarks this time:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/10/24/france.google.ap/index.html

Until now if you post an email about some product or other you have to use
stratagems like M$ if afraid. Fomr now on it will be official ... ?

(remember the push to talk <-> putty putty yak yak thread ?)

Peter
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sat Oct 25 21:24:27 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 17:24:27 -0400
Subject: tar restore went bad
Message-ID: <3F9AEA0B.EE35CE6E@onlink.net>

I am trying to implement a backup plan for my network.

I finally got ftp to move the .gz.tar from machine to machine. But
when I tried to restore to see if it would work, I ran into problems
with tar.

I have read and reread man tar - it's not that long.

The problem I'm having is the account that I "restored" the home
directory for is
pooched. I can't log into the account. I tried gong in as root and
changing the
password, recreating the account, recreating the group. Finally
I created a new
account to go in as. I know that the ns mail file is OK - I pointed my
new account
to it and it is working OK. But the GUI login doesn;t work.

I guess I got confused when I was trying to be clever and point the
archive to
be created somewhere other than the home dir of the account.

    tar -czvf /locbudrv/hons800bckup.gz.tar /home/chris

Would it have been safer to just use ...

    tar -czvf hons800bckup.gz.tar /home/chris

from where I was (/home/chris)?...

then copy that to wherever, like /locbudrv  (which is hdb2, if that
matters),
and to a floppy for off-site storage, etc.?

So, I'm assuming the first problem is that I got confused where I was
when
I created the tarball and where I was when I extracted it...

The second problem may be that some of the files would not overwrite
when I did the restore - which may be part of a bigger problem: I don't
know how to safely test the restore procedure. Ironic, because the point
of
all this is not to lose functionality of my  /home/chris, which is
exactly what
happened when I went to test the restore.

So, I ended up with chris folders within home folders, home folders
within
chris folders and even, at one point, a home within a home. Obviously
I did
sone thrashing about before I calmed down.

: /

Chris



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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 00:42:51 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 20:42:51 -0400
Subject: tar restore went bad
In-Reply-To: <3F9AEA0B.EE35CE6E-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9AEA0B.EE35CE6E@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20031025204251.00732984@mail.look.ca>

At 17:24 2003-10-25 -0400, aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org wrote:
> I am trying to implement a backup plan for my network.
>
> I finally got ftp to move the .gz.tar from machine to machine. But
> when I tried to restore to see if it would work, I ran into problems
> with tar.
>
> I have read and reread man tar - it's not that long.
>
> The problem I'm having is the account that I "restored" the home
> directory for is
> pooched. I can't log into the account. I tried gong in as root and
> changing the
> password, recreating the account, recreating the group. Finally
> I created a new
> account to go in as. I know that the ns mail file is OK - I pointed my
> new account
> to it and it is working OK. But the GUI login doesn;t work.

Hmm, I don't see why this is happening.

>
> I guess I got confused when I was trying to be clever and point the
> archive to
> be created somewhere other than the home dir of the account.
>
>    tar -czvf /locbudrv/hons800bckup.gz.tar /home/chris

Actually that looks good to me.  Except that it would be more in line
with convention to end your filename with .tar.gz.

>
> Would it have been safer to just use ...
>
>    tar -czvf hons800bckup.gz.tar /home/chris
>
> from where I was (/home/chris)?...

No, you will just provoke tar into telling you that it is omitting
/home/chris/hons800bckup.gz.tar from the archive.

>
> then copy that to wherever, like /locbudrv  (which is hdb2, if that
> matters),
> and to a floppy for off-site storage, etc.?
>
> So, I'm assuming the first problem is that I got confused where I was
> when
> I created the tarball and where I was when I extracted it...

Just the latter, I am guessing.  

First of all, although you specified an absolute name for the
directory when you were creating the archive, (at least my version of)
tar removes the leading slash from names within the archive.  Thus you
get the possibility of restoring the archive at a different point
within the file hierarchy.  You have already noticed this possibility
<grin/>.

Remember that tar will list all the members (i.e., files and
directories) in the archive.  If I understand what happened, you will
see that all members have names starting `home/chris/`.

To restore things back where they came from, you want effectively to
"be in" the root directory of the filesystem when you do the restore.
You can accomplish this by `cd /`, of course, but it may be more
convenient to add option `--directory=/` to the restoring tar command.

BTW, to take care of the possibility that chris does not own
everything in /home/chris, you can execute both the save and restore
as root, using options `--same-owner --preserve-permissions` on the
restoring tar command.

>
> The second problem may be that some of the files would not overwrite
> when I did the restore - which may be part of a bigger problem: I don't
> know how to safely test the restore procedure. Ironic, because the point
> of
> all this is not to lose functionality of my  /home/chris, which is
> exactly what
> happened when I went to test the restore.

Well it would be good to keep /home/chris safe during you test.  If
you are going to test as if you are recovering from loss of that whole
directory, you can just rename it out of the way.  To test recovery
from more subtle damage, have a safe copy somewhere else.

>
> So, I ended up with chris folders within home folders, home folders
> within
> chris folders and even, at one point, a home within a home. Obviously
> I did
> sone thrashing about before I calmed down.

Well from the two tar command you gave, I would expect

    /home/
    |
    +---chris/
        |
        +---... whatever was in /home/chris before ...
        |
        +---home/
            |
            +---chris/
                |
                +---... whatever was in /home/chris before ...

I do cannot see /home/home resulting from what you described.  What
would create a home within home is if you did `cd /home` (or, starting
from /home/chris, `cd ..`) before issuing the restore command you told
us about.

Hope this helps.  Please ask again if I have misunderstood or my
writing is unclear.

Terry.
Avilable for contract programming.

>
> : /
>
> Chris


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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 03:17:37 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Sat, 25 Oct 2003 23:17:37 -0400
Subject: (OT) MLP: Babbage quote
Message-ID: <3F9B3CD1.6020400@rogers.com>

Saw this as a sig while reading Bugtraq today. Rather amusing to see 
this kind of problem transcending the centuries:

"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, 
Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right 
answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of 
confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
					-- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 17:55:35 2003
From: tlug-KfBRzk3UKwol8X4E99VVQg at public.gmane.org (Mailing List)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 12:55:35 -0500
Subject: Help with APT and Debian
Message-ID: <E1ADp71-0001DO-00@cage.robertsearle.com>

When I run 
apt-get update;apt-get -u -t sarge dist-upgrade

I get a different number of packages that
need upgrading than when I run

apt-get update;apt-get -u -t testing dist-upgrade

Which is a different number of packages then when I
run the two commands with the unstable branch commented
out.  The Default-Release should ignore the unstable
branch by default, right?

Help.
========================================================
apt.conf
APT::Default-Release "sarge";
APT::Cache-Limits 99165824;

======================================================
source.list
#deb http://mirror.direct.ca/linux/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://mirror.direct.ca/linux/debian/ unstable main non-free contrib
deb http://mirror.direct.ca/linux/debian/ sarge main non-free contrib
deb-src http://mirror.direct.ca/linux/debian/ sarge main non-free contrib
deb http://mirror.direct.ca/linux/debian/ stable main non-free contrib
deb-src http://mirror.direct.ca/linux/debian/ stable main non-free contrib

deb http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ sarge  main non-free contrib
#deb-src http://debian.yorku.ca/debian/ sarge  main non-free contrib

deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sarge main non-free contrib
deb-src http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/ sarge main non-free contrib
deb http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US sarge/non-US main contrib non-free
deb-src http://non-us.debian.org/debian-non-US sarge/non-US main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org/ sarge/updates main contrib non-free
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 18:28:24 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:28:24 +0200 (IST)
Subject: seriously hilarious
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262027360.691@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


I found this while looking for something on Google. Some explicit
religious content.

http://www.bhnet.com.br/~simonet/jokes/ethernaldonuts.htm

Peter
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 19:02:11 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:02:11 -0500
Subject: seriously hilarious
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262027360.691-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262027360.691@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <20031026140211.5a38ff21.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:28:24 +0200 (IST)
"Peter L. Peres" <plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> I found this while looking for something on Google. Some explicit
> religious content.
> 
> http://www.bhnet.com.br/~simonet/jokes/ethernaldonuts.htm

Oh, man, thanks, I needed that. Of course, the funniest part:

"And it had to run on Windows."

My only question, is, what in the name of sweet jesus were your search
terms?!

-- 
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Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed.
		-- Christopher Morley
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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 19:05:29 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 14:05:29 -0500
Subject: seriously hilarious
In-Reply-To: <20031026140211.5a38ff21.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262027360.691@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031026140211.5a38ff21.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0310261404520.15047@dvp.cs>

> > http://www.bhnet.com.br/~simonet/jokes/ethernaldonuts.htm
>
> Oh, man, thanks, I needed that. Of course, the funniest part:
>
> "And it had to run on Windows."
>

Personally, I want to know what creative anagrams there are for Kernighan
and Ritchie. ;)
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 19:33:39 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:33:39 +0200 (IST)
Subject: seriously hilarious
In-Reply-To: <20031026140211.5a38ff21.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262027360.691@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
 <20031026140211.5a38ff21.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262128580.691@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


> My only question, is, what in the name of sweet jesus were your search
> terms?!

Athena I think and a couple of other words. I have a bug with some X11
programs I once wrote when I was learning this and I was trying to find
out if I'm the only one.

Apropos search terms I think that every search engine has a golden age
that lasts a couple of months after which it becomes clogged with junk.
Imho Google is past that stage.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 20:31:40 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 22:31:40 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Funny messages from ftpd ?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262230250.691@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


Never seen anything like this since that guy implemented an adventure game
using his dns server:

Connecting to megrez.math.u-bordeaux.fr:21... connected!
Logging in as anonymous ...
220 ready, dude (vsFTPd 1.0.0: beat me, break me)
--> USER anonymous

331 Please specify the password.
--> PASS Turtle Power!
230 Login successful. Have fun.
--> TYPE I

200 Binary it is, then.


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From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 20:32:09 2003
From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:32:09 -0500
Subject: (OT) MLP: Babbage quote
References: <3F9B3CD1.6020400@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <J9Cn/ks/K78I089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <3F9B3CD1.6020400-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org>,
Byron Sonne <blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> wrote:
>Saw this as a sig while reading Bugtraq today. Rather amusing to see
>this kind of problem transcending the centuries:
>
>"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray,
>Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right
>answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of
>confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question."
>					-- Charles Babbage (1791-1871)

   The confusion of a person that would lie to his Mentat
(_Dune_ series, Frank Herbert.)  Who expects it will end
anytime soon?

        Regards.        Mel.
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From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 20:34:52 2003
From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 15:34:52 -0500
Subject: Anything new to know about scanners?
References: <1RXl/ks/KzQd089yn@the-wire.com>
 <3F958160.40204@pcsecurityonline.com>
Message-ID: <s/Cn/ks/KzcN089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <3F958160.40204-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>,
Jason Shein <jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>Mel Wilson wrote:
>>    I'm in the market for one of those not-too-expensive
>> scanners.  (I notice Future Shop has a sale on one that does
>> slides for about my top price -- $150.)  Any recommendations
>> or caveats for what works with Linux?

>Here's all the info.
>http://www.sane-project.org/sane-mfgs.html
>http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners.html
>http://www.buzzard.org.uk/jonathan/scanners-usb.html

   Thanks to everyone who answered.

   Based on the lists, got a Benq 5000U from the store down
the street.  It came with SANE 1.0.4 source on the CD-ROM!
Nevertheless, I'm going with SANE 1.0.11 from Slackware 9.0.

   Now I'm fighting through SANE documentation, but I'm
confident I'll come out the other side with something.

        Regards.        Mel.
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 22:16:43 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:16:43 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
Message-ID: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net>

I have an old DELL AT101 keyboard - it's full of gunk. My kids like to
eat
cereal over the keyboard while I'm not around.

I've popped off the keys and will run them through a dishwasher. But the
gunk
(somewhere beside slimy and crusty) is close enough to the electronics
(I
assume that I don't want to try softening it up with mild detergent on a
Qtip.

Alcohol appeals to me as it will evaporate. Does anyone know another way
to
do this?

Ya, I know - buy a new keyboard. I've done that - all the new
planned-obsolescence
keyboards have crapped out and been thrown out. That leaves me with the
old ones.

P.S. It's a linux (TM) keyboard.

; )

Chris

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 22:13:29 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:13:29 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com>

Chris Aitken wrote:
> I have an old DELL AT101 keyboard - it's full of gunk. My kids like to
> eat
> cereal over the keyboard while I'm not around.
> 
> I've popped off the keys and will run them through a dishwasher. But the
> gunk
> (somewhere beside slimy and crusty) is close enough to the electronics
> (I
> assume that I don't want to try softening it up with mild detergent on a
> Qtip.
> 
> Alcohol appeals to me as it will evaporate. Does anyone know another way
> to
> do this?
> 
> Ya, I know - buy a new keyboard. I've done that - all the new
> planned-obsolescence
> keyboards have crapped out and been thrown out. That leaves me with the
> old ones.
> 
> P.S. It's a linux (TM) keyboard.

Back in the days when I used to clean a lot of keyboards, I just used 
hot water.  Also, water will be better than alcohol for that sort of 
junk.  Just make sure you use only clean water, and give it plenty of 
time to dry.  An old tooth brush may come in handy for cleaning tough spots.


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From scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 22:13:58 2003
From: scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Stewart C. Russell)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:13:58 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <3F9C4726.10505@sympatico.ca>

Chris Aitken wrote:
> 
> Alcohol appeals to me as it will evaporate. Does anyone know another way
> to do this?

I always used to clean my old IBM in the bath; clean warm water, no 
soap. I believe it's still working to this day on my parents' computer.

Keyboards take a long time (>= 3 days) to dry out, and make some 
interesting POST beeps if they are still wet when you plug them in.

  Stewart

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 22:27:08 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:27:08 -0500
Subject: Speedtouch
Message-ID: <200310261727.09601.marc@lijour.net>

A while ago we were talking about the Alcatel Speedtouch home ADSL modem.

Anyone who had found a place where to acquire it, please let me know.

Marc

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 22:28:08 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:28:08 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C4709.7070204-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F9C4A78.7020802@yahoo.ca>

James Knott wrote:

> Back in the days when I used to clean a lot of keyboards, I just used 
> hot water.  Also, water will be better than alcohol for that sort of 
> junk.  Just make sure you use only clean water, and give it plenty of 
> time to dry.  An old tooth brush may come in handy for cleaning tough 
> spots.

I've had success using a qtip and glass cleaner -- excellent for removing the 
oils that accumulate, without needing to apply much pressure, and not as 
corrosive as alcohol.


-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 23:11:24 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:11:24 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C4A78.7020802-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com> <3F9C4A78.7020802@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9C549C.9090201@rogers.com>

Considering a good programmer's time is worth $50/hr, or better ... you 
can spend half an hour getting your keyboard to work, or you can spend 
$25 on a new keyboard the next time you're near a computer store.

Tom

Stephen Allen wrote:

> James Knott wrote:
>
>> Back in the days when I used to clean a lot of keyboards, I just used 
>> hot water.  Also, water will be better than alcohol for that sort of 
>> junk.  Just make sure you use only clean water, and give it plenty of 
>> time to dry.  An old tooth brush may come in handy for cleaning tough 
>> spots.
>
>
> I've had success using a qtip and glass cleaner -- excellent for 
> removing the oils that accumulate, without needing to apply much 
> pressure, and not as corrosive as alcohol.
>
>

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 23:19:05 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:19:05 -0500
Subject: Speedtouch
In-Reply-To: <200310261727.09601.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310261727.09601.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <200310261819.05497.fraser@wehave.net>

On Sunday 26 October 2003 17:27, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) 
wrote:
> A while ago we were talking about the Alcatel Speedtouch home ADSL modem.
>
> Anyone who had found a place where to acquire it, please let me know.

Me too please.  I'd seen some largish store advertising refurbs at 
fifty-something dollars, I think it was Future Shop but when I went there on 
the weekend they didn't have any and don't sell them.  You/me could try 
ebay.ca there are quite a few available there I've just never tried ebay.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 23:19:18 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:19:18 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C549C.9090201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com> <3F9C4A78.7020802@yahoo.ca> <3F9C549C.9090201@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F9C5676.8070100@rogers.com>

The problem with that, is that many of the keyboards available these 
days are crap.  I'm still using the keyboard I bought with my 386 
computer, back in '92.  I also bought a few "old style" IBM keyboards a 
while ago, for $5 each.


Tom Legrady wrote:
> Considering a good programmer's time is worth $50/hr, or better ... you 
> can spend half an hour getting your keyboard to work, or you can spend 
> $25 on a new keyboard the next time you're near a computer store.
> 
> Tom
> 
> Stephen Allen wrote:
> 
>> James Knott wrote:
>>
>>> Back in the days when I used to clean a lot of keyboards, I just used 
>>> hot water.  Also, water will be better than alcohol for that sort of 
>>> junk.  Just make sure you use only clean water, and give it plenty of 
>>> time to dry.  An old tooth brush may come in handy for cleaning tough 
>>> spots.
>>
>>
>>
>> I've had success using a qtip and glass cleaner -- excellent for 
>> removing the oils that accumulate, without needing to apply much 
>> pressure, and not as corrosive as alcohol.
>>
>>
> 
> -- 
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml


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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 23:40:51 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:40:51 -0500 (EST)
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C549C.9090201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C549C.9090201@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031026183711.6675A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Tom Legrady wrote:
> Considering a good programmer's time is worth $50/hr, or better ... you 
> can spend half an hour getting your keyboard to work, or you can spend 
> $25 on a new keyboard the next time you're near a computer store.

Unfortunately, this assumes you can *find* the keyboard you want in a
store, which is not necessarily the case.  Keyboards are a subject some
people get very religious about, partly because most of the ones in the
stores are junk.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 23:48:09 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 18:48:09 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C5676.8070100-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com> <3F9C4A78.7020802@yahoo.ca> <3F9C549C.9090201@rogers.com> <3F9C5676.8070100@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F9C5D39.5070700@rogers.com>

That's one thing I really liked about the AIX workstations I used 10
years ago .... they had keyboards with real switches, that made a real
clicking sound when you pressed them .... instead of moving magnets
closer to a hall-effect switch and generating a noise through a loudspeaker.

James Knott wrote:

> The problem with that, is that many of the keyboards available these 
> days are crap.  I'm still using the keyboard I bought with my 386 
> computer, back in '92.  I also bought a few "old style" IBM keyboards 
> a while ago, for $5 each.
>

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From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 00:12:55 2003
From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:12:55 -0500
Subject: Speedtouch
In-Reply-To: <200310261727.09601.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310261727.09601.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <200310261912.55254.jmyshrall@golden.net>

On October 26, 2003 05:27 pm, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> A while ago we were talking about the Alcatel Speedtouch home ADSL modem.
>
> Anyone who had found a place where to acquire it, please let me know.
>
> Marc
>

There is a company in the GTA name eludes me. However a quick check on 
e-bay.ca refine search to GTA and they will show up. New 100.00 CDN.

HTH

John   
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From linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 00:31:12 2003
From: linuxnewbie-pCGr9Sw2R8Y at public.gmane.org (ln @post.com)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 19:31:12 -0500
Subject: anyone got gaim to work with the new version of ms messenger?
Message-ID: <20031027003112.23285.qmail@mail.com>

anyone got gaim to work with the new version of ms messenger?

if so, how did you do it?  I'm running RH8, and Mozilla 1.4.1.

btb, I've upgraded to the new version of gaim (0.71), but still get the message "Gaim was unable to load your plug-in - the required plugin MSN was unable to load"

-ln
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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Sun Oct 26 22:59:10 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:59:10 -0500
Subject: Cogeco
References: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca> <20031024145925.GX20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <002301c39c14$d9dcc8b0$81059d18@ig88>



> On Wed, Oct 22, 2003 at 07:55:08PM +0200, Carola Koitz wrote:
> > Who has experiences with Cogeco and I also would like to know
> > if  Cogeco has port 25 restriction?
> > We are currently customers of sympatico with a web and mail server
> > at Verio and we would like to change our ISP.
>
> Outgoing bandwidth seems to be painful most of the time.  At least the
> guy who works from home in windsor with an IP phone running over IPsec
> as bad sound quality and dropouts often.  It is supposed to require only
> about 80kbit for a full quality call.  We are running it at 57kbit and
> it still has dropsouts frequently.
>
> The connection also just drops every few weeks for a short while.
>
> I know I wouldn't use cogeco if I lived in their service area.
>
> Lennart Sorensen

Lennart,

I am interested in getting an internet phone in Toronto, can you suggest
where to look for software/hardware?

Thanks,

Sid


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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 01:44:05 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:44:05 -0500
Subject: anyone got gaim to work with the new version of ms messenger?
In-Reply-To: <20031027003112.23285.qmail-O5WfVfzUwx8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027003112.23285.qmail@mail.com>
Message-ID: <200310262044.06612.marc@lijour.net>

Le 26 Octobre 2003 19:31, ln @post.com a ?crit :
> anyone got gaim to work with the new version of ms messenger?
>
> if so, how did you do it?  I'm running RH8, and Mozilla 1.4.1.
>
> btb, I've upgraded to the new version of gaim (0.71), but still get the
> message "Gaim was unable to load your plug-in - the required plugin MSN was
> unable to load"
>
> -ln
Try again it works for me!
(just got the source and recompiled it with rpm --rebuild)
Or go to Mandrake texstar rpms

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 01:57:21 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 20:57:21 -0500
Subject: Speedtouch
In-Reply-To: <200310261912.55254.jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310261727.09601.marc@lijour.net> <200310261912.55254.jmyshrall@golden.net>
Message-ID: <200310262057.22288.marc@lijour.net>

Le 26 Octobre 2003 19:12, John Myshrall a ?crit :
> On October 26, 2003 05:27 pm, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > A while ago we were talking about the Alcatel Speedtouch home ADSL modem.
> >
> > Anyone who had found a place where to acquire it, please let me know.
> >
> > Marc
>
> There is a company in the GTA name eludes me. However a quick check on
> e-bay.ca refine search to GTA and they will show up. New 100.00 CDN.

Can I trust ebay?

> HTH
>
> John
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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 02:10:15 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:10:15 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Speedtouch
In-Reply-To: <200310262057.22288.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310261727.09601.marc@lijour.net> <200310261912.55254.jmyshrall@golden.net>
 <200310262057.22288.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262108280.3086@ns.istop.com>

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> Le 26 Octobre 2003 19:12, John Myshrall a ?crit :
> > On October 26, 2003 05:27 pm, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > > A while ago we were talking about the Alcatel Speedtouch home ADSL modem.
> > >
> > > Anyone who had found a place where to acquire it, please let me know.
> > >
> > > Marc
> >
> > There is a company in the GTA name eludes me. However a quick check on
> > e-bay.ca refine search to GTA and they will show up. New 100.00 CDN.
>
> Can I trust ebay?

No, their service sucks; try emailing their support asking what would
happen if you don't receive goods in the condition they were sold as.  I
doubt you'll even find an email address they reply to, let alone get an
intelligent response from a person.

-Ralph

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 02:19:07 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:19:07 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C549C.9090201-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com> <3F9C4A78.7020802@yahoo.ca> <3F9C549C.9090201@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F9C809B.10405@yahoo.ca>

Tom Legrady wrote:
> Considering a good programmer's time is worth $50/hr, or better ... you 
> can spend half an hour getting your keyboard to work, or you can spend 
> $25 on a new keyboard the next time you're near a computer store.

Ah, but I haven't found many modern keyboards that have as good a "feel" as my 
older IBM PS2 keyboard. And -- I wish I was in /that/ snack bracket. :)

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 02:35:51 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 2003 21:35:51 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C809B.10405-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>; from kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org on Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 09:19:07PM -0500
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com> <3F9C4A78.7020802@yahoo.ca> <3F9C549C.9090201@rogers.com> <3F9C809B.10405@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031026213551.A23447@ee.ryerson.ca>


I have a keytronic Omnikey which is switcheable between Dvorak and Querty
layouts, so I can use it with any computer without installing software. As
well, I dropped a 17" monitor on it from a considerable height at one point
when my Ikea computer desk collapsed. (The desk is now braced with aluminum
angle.) Appart from having to replace one keyswitch (which I swapped from
some infrequently used location), the keyboard survived completely.

It must be at least 10 years old by now, and still works fine. Modern
keyboards are much less expensive but much less versatile and robust. I just
hope this one goes on forever. Keytronic don't make anything like it any
more.

Peter

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 05:04:33 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:04:33 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031027050433.GB5106@m433>

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 05:16:43PM -0500, Chris Aitken wrote

> Ya, I know - buy a new keyboard. I've done that - all the new
> planned-obsolescence keyboards have crapped out and been thrown
> out. That leaves me with the old ones.

http://www.pckeyboard.com/customizer.html  is probably what you're
looking for.  Look Ma; no Windows keys.

-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 05:47:32 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:47:32 -0500
Subject: happiness is a ping reply
Message-ID: <000501c39c4d$d17d71e0$0a01a8c0@viper>


Linux is the only thing I can rely on...
This weekend I had to upgrade 2 Mac laptops to OSX.  Actually I like OSX,
but fully migrating their old systems/data
 to the OSX and OSX apps was messy.  Then I had a Sony VAIO/Windows XP that
was blue screening every time the wireless network was used.

Then my 1U Dell PowerApp web100 server died. A Real Disaster! No OSX or XP
updates!
Not sure it is the processor, motherboard or power supply. I ruled
everything else out.  It was running my Linux RH9 server and
email/dns/domains/ basically everything.

Fortunatley I had my old trusty PII Compaq, but is was running a version of
the RH9 software/data that was out of date. domains/email etc wasnt
routing...httpd was not even loading...

Sos I said to myself...self, take out the SCSI drives and Adaptec/LVD and
drop it into the spare PIII Compaq.
Fortunaltely the kernel i compiled supported those new NIC cards.

ON THE FIRST BOOT, my LINUX SERVER WORKED IN A NEW COMPUTER! (a few kudzu
changes, that thats all)

(then i kissed my stuffed penguin mascot!)































"You can't kill zombie processes because they're ALREADY DEAD!" (banging on
the desk)


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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 07:16:20 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 02:16:20 -0500
Subject: seriously hilarious
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.58.0310261404520.15047-AEAf+MZw75o@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262027360.691@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet> <20031026140211.5a38ff21.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.GSO.4.58.0310261404520.15047@dvp.cs>
Message-ID: <3F9CC644.1020408@rogers.com>

> Personally, I want to know what creative anagrams there are for Kernighan
> and Ritchie. ;)

-Incarnate high end irk
-Indignant hack err he i
-Athenian herring dick
-Diarrhea night inc Ken    <- I wonder... perhaps... Ken THOMPSON ?!
-Heighten rancid rank i
-Incident hearing hark
-Tricking herein and ha

And most troublesome:

-Arraign ethnic kind eh

Methinks a conspiracy is afoot... ;)

Later,
B

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 10:21:45 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 05:21:45 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20031027050433.GB5106-DPTsmTRGv3o@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net>
	<20031027050433.GB5106@m433>
Message-ID: <20031027052145.1afdb85b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 00:04:33 -0500
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org> uttered:

>  Look Ma; no Windows keys.

Hey, I use those all the time! Mod4 in Pekwm, use it in all my keychains
to open apps, mount Samba shares...

Leaving my ctrl and alt keys for other stuff :-)

Maybe I'll repaint them with a Mandrake logo or something...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A priest advised Voltaire on his death bed to renounce the devil. 
Replied Voltaire, "This is no time to make new enemies."
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From colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 12:25:49 2003
From: colinmc151-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Colin McGregor)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 07:25:49 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4709.7070204@rogers.com> <3F9C4A78.7020802@yahoo.ca> <3F9C549C.9090201@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <007a01c39c85$748bac80$4201a8c0@ym.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>

"Tom Legrady" <legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> on Sunday, October 26, 2003 6:11 PM
wrote:

> Considering a good programmer's time is worth $50/hr, or better ... you
> can spend half an hour getting your keyboard to work, or you can spend
> $25 on a new keyboard the next time you're near a computer store.

As at least one other poster has pointed out there are some old keyboards
that have a feel, or features that can not be found in new keyboards. In my
case I have a not quite so old Logitech ergonomic keyboard, that while quite
ugly is very comfortable to type on. Also, getting new ergonomic keyboards
is in itself a pain, and will not get them new for anything like $25.

Coming back to the original question, I have taken the keyboard apart to
clean, and I have found a damp cloth that was soaked in very hot water (then
wrung out) works fine. This of course assumes you are willing and able to
take the WHOLE keyboard apart. I was somewhat surprised to find that they
switch arrangement under they keys was the rubber dome sort of arrangement I
normally associate with TV/VCR remote controls...

> Tom
>
> Stephen Allen wrote:
>
> > James Knott wrote:
> >
> >> Back in the days when I used to clean a lot of keyboards, I just used
> >> hot water.  Also, water will be better than alcohol for that sort of
> >> junk.  Just make sure you use only clean water, and give it plenty of
> >> time to dry.  An old tooth brush may come in handy for cleaning tough
> >> spots.
> >
> >
> > I've had success using a qtip and glass cleaner -- excellent for
> > removing the oils that accumulate, without needing to apply much
> > pressure, and not as corrosive as alcohol.
> >
> >
>
> --
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From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 13:26:04 2003
From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 08:26:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: existence of "pcl2text"??
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310270809570.8038-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>


Hi All,

Does anyone know whether a "pcl2text" utility exists?  (PCL is a printer 
language developed by HP for their LaserJet product line, similar to 
postscript.)

I have printer files from a windows/pcl combo that I would like to 
decipher into text, sort of like the pstotext or pdftotext utilities, but 
cannot find reference on (the net "linux pcl2text" google search) or 
(sourceforge "PCL" search) or (cpan.org search on "PCL")

I'd appreciate any ideas...

thanks,
max.




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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 14:34:35 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 09:34:35 -0500
Subject: DB conversion
In-Reply-To: <ltvfqgaqw8.fsf-ESSLbfkwD4uye9+Y+OZS3dBPR1lH4CV8@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031023045547.106E243E3@cbbrowne.com>
 <3F96DC86.9040701@alteeve.com>
 <20031023045547.106E243E3@cbbrowne.com> <ltvfqgaqw8.fsf@newsol.starnix.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031023184312.07d40008@localhost>

At 11:57 23/10/2003 -0400, Tim Writer wrote:
>cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org writes:
>
> > > Is there an easy way to convert from Postgres to MySQL?
> >
> > There can't be, because a great deal of the functionality would require
> > that you add substantial code to your application since MySQL does
> > minimal if any validation of input, and does not support vital features
> > such as triggers, stored procedures, and VIEWs.
> >
> > The only way you are likely to be able to convert a relational database
> > application to use MySQL is if you are using your database in the most
> > impoverished way.
>
>At risk of starting a flame war, that's a matter of opinion.  I could rewrite
>your last sentence this way:
>
>     You can easily convert your application from Posgress to MySQL
>     as long as you're using it sensibly, i.e. for storing data. If
>     you're using "advanced" features that really don't belong in a
>     database, like triggers, stored procedures, etc. the conversion
>     will be more difficult.

That is also a matter of opinion. I think triggers and SPs are pretty 
useful things as they allow me to enforce data integrity at the DB engine 
level, where it should be enforced, so that people who don't know any 
better, or malicious people, do not mess up the database. Non trivial 
database applications typically are not converted to different databases 
anyway so that is a red herring. It seems to me that the database vendors 
who do not have stored procedures and triggers seem to push the portability 
thing the hardest claiming that using these features in their competitors' 
products will lead to vendor lock in. The reality is that no matter where 
the rules are implemented, you are going to be locked into one thing or 
another. If you implement those rules at the application layer, regardless 
of the language or product you use, chances are, you will be locked in to 
that language or product so how does that help with this supposed 
requirement for ease of conversion?

It is quite common for organizations that use an RDBMS to use various 
languages and tools to work with that database. I have seen VB, C, and 
OMNIS code all using the same Oracle database. Fortunately, the DBA had 
enough sense to grant execute privileges on the stored procedures and 
functions only and did not grant insert, update, and delete privileges on 
the tables referenced by those objects. You can bet that had the DBA not 
done that, the rules would have been implemented at least three different 
ways by the three different developers or development teams. Business rules 
change. It helps to enforce rules in one place to avoid the need to check 
all the different places that business rules could be implemented in the 
absence of server side code.

>When all you've got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

The same could be said of MySQL. MySQL is a fine file manager. I just 
wouldn't call it a database yet:) I use it but certainly not for anything 
that could be termed "mission critical".

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326

mailto:clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 18:43:25 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:43:25 -0500
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
In-Reply-To: <20031027173340.GB17550-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20031027134325.306ad955.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:33:40 -0500
Toomas Karmo <verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> This same 
> person has just drawn my attention to a Mandrake newsletter which
> itself refers to http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/. The
> http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/ article is a report on tests of package
> management in Debian, Mandrake, RedHat, Slackware, and SuSE. 
> The winner is Debian. Mandrake comes in second. 

Slackware has package management?!

Seriously, though, Mandrake has come a long way, there's even a new tool
which I wasn't aware of until James Sparenburg on the Mandrake lists
pointed it out, it's called urpmi.setup, and it's on the install CD's.

I've always relied on http://plf.zarb.org/~nanardon/index.php, but
apparently urpmi.setup makes it even easier.

I am not at all surprised that Mandrake did so well, urpmi is a killer,
and I've barely scratched the surface in terms of it's useability.
Apt-get must be *phenomenal*.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book.
		-- B. Franklin
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 18:50:26 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:50:26 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271205380.12830-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net>
	<20031027050433.GB5106@m433>
	<20031027052145.1afdb85b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271205380.12830@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <20031027135026.1c480fb0.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:07:29 -0500 (EST)
Robert Brockway <robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > Maybe I'll repaint them with a Mandrake logo or something...
> 
> Admin: "Now press the Debian key"
> 
> User: "Huh?  What?"
> 
> Admin: "The DEBIAN key.  Surely you know where the Debian key is!"
> 
> User: "No?!?!?"
> 
> Admin: "The one with the swirl on it"

ROTFLMAO!

Thanks, man, that's great.

Oh, and back on topic, you nearly just ruined my *freshly cleaned
keyboard with coffee*...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Immortality -- a fate worse than death.
		-- Edgar A. Shoaff
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 18:55:01 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:55:01 -0500
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
In-Reply-To: <20031027134325.306ad955.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com> <20031027134325.306ad955.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031027185501.GA623@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 01:43:25PM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:33:40 -0500
> Toomas Karmo <verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > 
> > This same 
> > person has just drawn my attention to a Mandrake newsletter which
> > itself refers to http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/. The
> > http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/ article is a report on tests of package
> > management in Debian, Mandrake, RedHat, Slackware, and SuSE. 
> > The winner is Debian. Mandrake comes in second. 
> 
> Slackware has package management?!

Hey, what's wrong with .tgz format? ;-)  Slackware keeps list of files
installed, so that you can remove them when uninstalling.  In fact,
that's what people do anyway when "upgrading", ie. remove old files,
then install new files.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 16:35:48 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 18:35:48 +0200 (IST)
Subject: existence of "pcl2text"??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310270809570.8038-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310270809570.8038-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271833120.607@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


> Does anyone know whether a "pcl2text" utility exists?  (PCL is a printer
> language developed by HP for their LaserJet product line, similar to
> postscript.)

There is no such thing. PCL does not include any text characters if the
printout was graphical. You have to render it and then scan it and use OCR
on it or something like that. There are some PCL winprinters that don't
even have a character generator inside. PCL simply sends bitmaps with some
color control and carriage and paper transport control sequences.

Peter
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 17:04:54 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:04:54 -0500 (EST)
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C4726.10505-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4726.10505@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271000090.12830@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote:

> I always used to clean my old IBM in the bath; clean warm water, no
> soap. I believe it's still working to this day on my parents' computer.

I knew a guy who washed a dirty motherboard with soap & water once.  He
then rinced it throughly and left it dry for several days.  I am told it
powered up fine :)

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 17:07:29 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:07:29 -0500 (EST)
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <20031027052145.1afdb85b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <20031027050433.GB5106@m433>
 <20031027052145.1afdb85b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271205380.12830@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> Maybe I'll repaint them with a Mandrake logo or something...

Admin: "Now press the Debian key"

User: "Huh?  What?"

Admin: "The DEBIAN key.  Surely you know where the Debian key is!"

User: "No?!?!?"

Admin: "The one with the swirl on it"

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 17:22:35 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:22:35 -0500 (EST)
Subject: existence of "pcl2text"??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271833120.607-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271833120.607@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031027122108.17889C-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > Does anyone know whether a "pcl2text" utility exists? ...
> 
> There is no such thing. PCL does not include any text characters if the
> printout was graphical.

And the same is true of PostScript, but nevertheless it is *usually*
possible to extract the text from PostScript.  Most PCL output has text
as characters, not as graphics.

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 19:33:53 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:33:53 -0500
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
In-Reply-To: <20031027185501.GA623-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com>
	<20031027134325.306ad955.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031027185501.GA623@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031027143353.4885fc4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:55:01 -0500
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Hey, what's wrong with .tgz format? ;-)  Slackware keeps list of files
> installed, so that you can remove them when uninstalling.  In fact,
> that's what people do anyway when "upgrading", ie. remove old files,
> then install new files.

I know, I know, I'm just bein' silly. To be honest, I'd love to try
Slack, but I'm just too much of a newb yet. On the page that was linked
at the start of this thread, they give the example of MPlayer. With
urpmi, and the efforts of the guys at PLF, I not only get all the
*necessary* deps for MPlayer, I get *all* of the codecs as well, so I
can play those...um...movies that I...uh...obtained legally...

Whereas in Slack I'd probably have to hunt down all the codec packages
as well as the necessary libs.

Beyond that, it's all the GTK and Python and Perl and various Gnome libs
that would drive me nuts with Slack, but then again I'd probably learn
more. As I always say, I need another machine, so I can have one to do
my daily ass-fattening, and another to learn on, with something like
Slack.

Come to think of it, I would have liked to see Gentoo on the list of
distros they tested.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances.
		-- Herodotus
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 17:33:40 2003
From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Toomas Karmo)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:33:40 -0500
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
Message-ID: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com>

As I've just remarked to a person I know, who needs some help: 

((ESSENTIALLY-QUOTE)) 
Linux package management tools are of high importance for following two
reasons: 

(a) Only if our tools are simple to use can be assured that we will on
EACH business day check for security patches. (We cannot apply security
patches once a month, or once a week. Daily patching is a mission
requirement. But if the tools are hard to use, we will neglect daily
patching.) 

(b) Only if our tools are simple to use can we be assured that we will
be able to install mildly out-of-the-way end-user apps. (Two examples of
such apps: (i) Plain-ASCII
Web browsier "links", superior to the traditional
plain-ASCII browser 
lynx in understanding frames. (ii) "antiword", as a tool
for converting a Microsoft Word file into plain ASCII, and sending that
plain ASCII to standard output.) 
((/ESSENTIALLY-QUOTE)) 

This same 
person has just drawn my attention to a Mandrake newsletter which
itself refers to http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/. The
http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/ article is a report on tests of package
management in Debian, Mandrake, RedHat, Slackware, and SuSE. 
The winner is Debian. Mandrake comes in second. 

Rapidly, 

Tom = Tom Karmo
http://www.metascientia.com 
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 19:50:41 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:50:41 -0500
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
In-Reply-To: <20031027143353.4885fc4b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com> <20031027134325.306ad955.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20031027185501.GA623@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031027143353.4885fc4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031027195041.GA727@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 02:33:53PM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 13:55:01 -0500
> William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > Hey, what's wrong with .tgz format? ;-)  Slackware keeps list of files
> > installed, so that you can remove them when uninstalling.  In fact,
> > that's what people do anyway when "upgrading", ie. remove old files,
> > then install new files.
> 
> I know, I know, I'm just bein' silly. To be honest, I'd love to try
> Slack, but I'm just too much of a newb yet. On the page that was linked
> at the start of this thread, they give the example of MPlayer. With
> urpmi, and the efforts of the guys at PLF, I not only get all the
> *necessary* deps for MPlayer, I get *all* of the codecs as well, so I
> can play those...um...movies that I...uh...obtained legally...
> 
> Whereas in Slack I'd probably have to hunt down all the codec packages
> as well as the necessary libs.
> 
> Beyond that, it's all the GTK and Python and Perl and various Gnome libs
> that would drive me nuts with Slack, but then again I'd probably learn
> more. As I always say, I need another machine, so I can have one to do
> my daily ass-fattening, and another to learn on, with something like
> Slack.
> 
> Come to think of it, I would have liked to see Gentoo on the list of
> distros they tested.

If you install "everything" from distribution CD, you would have these
kind of problems.  :-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 19:58:00 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:58:00 -0500
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
In-Reply-To: <20031027195041.GA727-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com>
	<20031027134325.306ad955.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031027185501.GA623@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031027143353.4885fc4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031027195041.GA727@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031027145800.7739195f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 14:50:41 -0500
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> If you install "everything" from distribution CD, you would have these
> kind of problems.  :-)

Do you mean Slackware, and "*not* have these kinds of problems"?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.
		-- Lao Tsu
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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 20:09:50 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 15:09:50 -0500
Subject: url suffix question
Message-ID: <3F9D7B8E.5000800@yahoo.ca>

Has anyone seen a requested url in their web server logs that ends with a " ."? 
That's a space and a period. I cannot seeing it being a mistype as it was logged 
several times.

Is this an attempt at an exploit of some kind?

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 18:08:32 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:08:32 +0200 (IST)
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271000090.12830-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4726.10505@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271000090.12830@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310272003390.722@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Robert Brockway wrote:

> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote:
>
> > I always used to clean my old IBM in the bath; clean warm water, no
> > soap. I believe it's still working to this day on my parents' computer.
>
> I knew a guy who washed a dirty motherboard with soap & water once.  He
> then rinced it throughly and left it dry for several days.  I am told it
> powered up fine :)

fyi in some factory processes boards are washed with water and detergent
as a final step of processing, and then dried in a tunnel drier (warm dry
air is blown through the tunnel exactly like in a clothes dryer). The
trick is the water is de-ionised and purified. Not tap water although I
understand that tap water in some places is suitable. However all parts
that are not allowed to be immersed must be sealed (and they are, with
little labels). On a finished board this is not the case and there may be
trouble. Switches, potentiometers, sockets and some connectors are known
to cause trouble. ymmv.

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 18:15:50 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:15:50 +0200 (IST)
Subject: existence of "pcl2text"??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031027122108.17889C-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031027122108.17889C-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310272008510.722@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Henry Spencer wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > > Does anyone know whether a "pcl2text" utility exists? ...
> >
> > There is no such thing. PCL does not include any text characters if the
> > printout was graphical.
>
> And the same is true of PostScript, but nevertheless it is *usually*
> possible to extract the text from PostScript.  Most PCL output has text
> as characters, not as graphics.

Maybe but not the one I saw. Since PCL cannot download fonts (it can
download bitmaps and use them as tiles I think but only some versions) it
can only use plain text for fonts available in the printer, usually one of
four fonts in a number of variants. Post Script is different because the
font set for Post Script is standard and infinitely scalable (vector fonts
rendered at the desired resolution by the print engine).

Most inexpensive PCL printers do not send any text to the printer in a
graphic print-out, with the exception of control codes (most PCL control
codes are printable ASCII sequences). When a PCL printer is used to print
plain text with the printer default font then the sent data is indeed
plain text with a small set of control commands in PCL at the start and
end. If there is any text in a PCL file to be seen then

  strings <file.pcl|less

should show it.

Peter
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 22:19:01 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:19:01 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <3F9C4726.10505-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net>
	<3F9C4726.10505@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031027171901.7df50385.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Sun, 26 Oct 2003 17:13:58 -0500
"Stewart C. Russell" <scruss-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I always used to clean my old IBM in the bath; clean warm water, no 
> soap. I believe it's still working to this day on my parents'
> computer.

I have an IBM keyboard, I just removed the top half which houses the
keys themselves and washed that part. This top half is pretty much
sealed in terms of allowing dirt to get down into the actual
electronics/actuators, so it was all I needed to clean. Shook it out
real good, ran the blow dryer over it on low heat for about 10 minutes
until I couldn't shake any more water drops out, reattached to the
bottom, good as new.

If you can seperate the two parts, it makes it a lot easier, and of
course safer.

If Colin B. is reading this, he knows exactly the kind of keyboard I'm
usin', eh C.? ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Loneliness is a terrible price to pay for independence.
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 22:33:11 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 17:33:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: existence of "pcl2text"??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310272008510.722-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310272008510.722@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031027172840.23196A-100000@spsystems.net>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:
> > And the same is true of PostScript, but nevertheless it is *usually*
> > possible to extract the text from PostScript.  Most PCL output has text
> > as characters, not as graphics.
> 
> Maybe but not the one I saw. Since PCL cannot download fonts (it can
> download bitmaps and use them as tiles I think but only some versions)...

Sorry, not correct, PCL has provisions for downloading both bitmap and
scalable fonts.  Don't confuse the limited implementation present in some
printers with what's possible in a printer that implements the whole thing.
See chapters 9 and 10 in "HP PCL 5 Printer Language Technical Reference
Manual".

> ...Post Script is different because the
> font set for Post Script is standard and infinitely scalable (vector fonts
> rendered at the desired resolution by the print engine).

A full PCL implementation can do that too, although admittedly that's
rather less common than merely the ability to download bitmap fonts
(which a lot of PCL printers can do).

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org


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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 23:01:53 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:01:53 +0200 (IST)
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
In-Reply-To: <20031027185501.GA623-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com> <20031027134325.306ad955.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <20031027185501.GA623@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310280054040.722@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, William Park wrote:

> Hey, what's wrong with .tgz format? ;-)  Slackware keeps list of files
> installed, so that you can remove them when uninstalling.  In fact,
> that's what people do anyway when "upgrading", ie. remove old files,
> then install new files.

Most important, you can open/create/manipulate slackware packages using
any os (even windows) because the format is tgz and all scripts are shell
scripts that will run anywhere (almost). F.ex. if you port something to
cygwin/win32 slackware packages are the only straightforward option I know
of. Same for opening a package on a Sun w/o rpm deb and so forth.

Since the scripts are shell scripts there are no limits. You want a Prolog
AI installer with Postgresql backend to keep track of packages and an
Apache/PHP front end to it ? You got it (you only need to write a 'few'
lines of code).

I could never understand why people looked down on Slackware installation
systems. After all its scripts are written in the shell script that boots
and runs the whole machine. How could that (being a fully featured
programming language with full access to the system as root) be inferior
to a specialised application ?! You can even write a package install
script that produces a rpm package out of itself! Now try the opposite
using a rpm package!

Peter

PS: I am biased. I started with Slackware and i spent an inordinate amount
of time tinkering with Slackware before moving on.
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 00:49:45 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:49:45 -0500
Subject: perl Tk::JPEG and VOCP
Message-ID: <3F9DBD29.6040204@sympatico.ca>

I got a PentiumIII500, w. 512 ram, running Debian testing/ unstable.
I ditched my winmodem for a USR-56(thingie) voice-fax-data modem.
I want my box to behave like an answering machine, a fax machine and all 
that jazz.
    Oh yeah !

So I found VOCP that promises to do great gui things with vgetty, and a 
pile o perl.
    It took quite some time to install, I did it three times.
DAMN ! perl mod Tk::JPEG was not found, or was not the expected version.
    No GUI, no go !
Google regurgitated several mailings regarding the verry same problem, 
and the finger was pointed at perl. The solution offered was to 
recompile to the newest version.
    trouble is; I found several sources of perl (ActiveState and others) 
and honestly have some nervousness about recompiling something that I 
suspect is central to the workings of my box. I don't have much 
experience recompiling anything..
    Can anyone suggest the path of least resistance here ? I apt-getted 
(apt-got?) perl-base 5.8.1-3 but that did not help VOCP find mod Tk::JPEG
    thanks,
djp

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From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 00:14:48 2003
From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:14:48 -0500
Subject: Speedtouch
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262108280.3086-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310261727.09601.marc@lijour.net> <200310262057.22288.marc@lijour.net> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310262108280.3086@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <200310271914.48666.jmyshrall@golden.net>

On October 26, 2003 09:10 pm, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Le 26 Octobre 2003 19:12, John Myshrall a ?crit :
> > > On October 26, 2003 05:27 pm, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) 
wrote:
> > > > A while ago we were talking about the Alcatel Speedtouch home ADSL
> > > > modem.
> > > >
> > > > Anyone who had found a place where to acquire it, please let me know.
> > > >
> > > > Marc
> > >
> > > There is a company in the GTA name eludes me. However a quick check on
> > > e-bay.ca refine search to GTA and they will show up. New 100.00 CDN.
> >
> > Can I trust ebay?
>
> No, their service sucks; try emailing their support asking what would
> happen if you don't receive goods in the condition they were sold as.  I
> doubt you'll even find an email address they reply to, let alone get an
> intelligent response from a person.
>
> -Ralph

There are a few companies that post to e-bay and will sell direct. They are 
located in the GTA. This means you do not use ebay to buy. Just to source. 

FWIW I have bought a few things with no problems. One item was a Linksys 
router.  I stick to strictly GTA though.

John  

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 00:30:56 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:30:56 -0500
Subject: existence of "pcl2text"??
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310270809570.8038-100000-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310270809570.8038-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9DB8C0.1090606@rogers.com>

Max Blanco wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> Does anyone know whether a "pcl2text" utility exists?  (PCL is a printer 
> language developed by HP for their LaserJet product line, similar to 
> postscript.)
> 
> I have printer files from a windows/pcl combo that I would like to 
> decipher into text, sort of like the pstotext or pdftotext utilities, but 
> cannot find reference on (the net "linux pcl2text" google search) or 
> (sourceforge "PCL" search) or (cpan.org search on "PCL")
> 
> I'd appreciate any ideas...

I wouldn't think so.  Given that PCL is essentially a picture, you'd 
need something along the lines of OCR.



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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 00:33:12 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:33:12 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271000090.12830-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <3F9C4726.10505@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271000090.12830@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F9DB948.7030606@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Oct 2003, Stewart C. Russell wrote:
> 
> 
>>I always used to clean my old IBM in the bath; clean warm water, no
>>soap. I believe it's still working to this day on my parents' computer.
> 
> 
> I knew a guy who washed a dirty motherboard with soap & water once.  He
> then rinced it throughly and left it dry for several days.  I am told it
> powered up fine :)

While cleaners may be used, they have to be thorouly rinsed out.  Clean 
water will not hurt electronic components, but the cleaners etc., might. 
  You also don't want soap film on contacts etc.


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 00:34:20 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:34:20 -0500
Subject: linux (TM) keyboard
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271205380.12830-jjp0Z2nKfE4UMW5meZNLLYoZpVGlXMR7YPYVAmT7z5s@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9C47CB.6567AAE3@onlink.net> <20031027050433.GB5106@m433> <20031027052145.1afdb85b.joehill@sympatico.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310271205380.12830@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>
Message-ID: <3F9DB98C.2020907@rogers.com>

Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:
> 
> 
>>Maybe I'll repaint them with a Mandrake logo or something...
> 
> 
> Admin: "Now press the Debian key"
> 
> User: "Huh?  What?"
> 
> Admin: "The DEBIAN key.  Surely you know where the Debian key is!"
> 
> User: "No?!?!?"
> 

Admin: "It's right next to the "Any" key.  ;-)

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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 00:43:10 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:43:10 -0500
Subject: existence of "pcl2text"??
In-Reply-To: Message from James Knott <james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Mon, 27 Oct 2003 19:30:56 EST." <3F9DB8C0.1090606-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org> 
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310270809570.8038-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>  <3F9DB8C0.1090606@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <20031028004311.F408740A3@cbbrowne.com>

> Max Blanco wrote:
> > Hi All,
> > 
> > Does anyone know whether a "pcl2text" utility exists?  (PCL is a printer 
> > language developed by HP for their LaserJet product line, similar to 
> > postscript.)
> > 
> > I have printer files from a windows/pcl combo that I would like to 
> > decipher into text, sort of like the pstotext or pdftotext utilities, but 
> > cannot find reference on (the net "linux pcl2text" google search) or 
> > (sourceforge "PCL" search) or (cpan.org search on "PCL")
> > 
> > I'd appreciate any ideas...
> 
> I wouldn't think so.  Given that PCL is essentially a picture, you'd 
> need something along the lines of OCR.

This one's ambiguous...

You may be right; you may be wrong.

PCL can render bitmaps into pictures, and it is typical for (for
instance) Postscript to be rendered into bitmaps, with the result that,
as you say, OCR is the only way to interpret it.

But PCL printers do include sets of fonts, and it has historically been
quite common for Windows printer drivers to support the on-printer fonts
that would allow you to submit output as lines of largely plain text.

Strings _might_, if you're lucky, get you some useful results.
--
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http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/advocacy.html
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 02:07:21 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:07:21 -0500
Subject: package management tests: Debian, Mandrake winners
In-Reply-To: <20031027134325.306ad955.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031027173340.GB17550@interlog.com> <20031027134325.306ad955.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9DCF59.3060102@sympatico.ca>

JoeHill wrote:

>On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 12:33:40 -0500
>Toomas Karmo <verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>  
>
>>This same 
>>person has just drawn my attention to a Mandrake newsletter which
>>itself refers to http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/. The
>>http://lwn.net/Articles/49967/ article is a report on tests of package
>>management in Debian, Mandrake, RedHat, Slackware, and SuSE. 
>>The winner is Debian. Mandrake comes in second. 
>>    
>>
>
>Slackware has package management?!
>
>Seriously, though, Mandrake has come a long way, there's even a new tool
>which I wasn't aware of until James Sparenburg on the Mandrake lists
>pointed it out, it's called urpmi.setup, and it's on the install CD's.
>
>I've always relied on http://plf.zarb.org/~nanardon/index.php, but
>apparently urpmi.setup makes it even easier.
>
>I am not at all surprised that Mandrake did so well, urpmi is a killer,
>and I've barely scratched the surface in terms of it's useability.
>Apt-get must be *phenomenal*.
>
The problem I'm having with Mandrake's urpmi is that it sees my AMD K6-2 
300MHz CPU as a 386 chip and doesn't seem to allow setting up the source 
list for downloading and updating if it isn't a 586 chip. Urpmi worked 
on my AMD K6-2 450MHz though.

Apt-get and up2date has no such worries.

John.

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 01:54:18 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 20:54:18 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
Message-ID: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything 
but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before 
I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel, 
boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk 
-l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh) 
booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS 
sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to 
flush HDC...

   So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32 
hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be 
found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!

Madison

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 03:00:22 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:00:22 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DCC4A.7020801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310272200.23984.marc@lijour.net>

Le 27 Octobre 2003 20:54, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> Hi all,
>
>    I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
> but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
> I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
> boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
> -l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
> booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
> sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
> flush HDC...

you did fdisk /dev/hdc?

>    So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32
> hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be
> found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!
>
> Madison
>
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 02:07:26 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:07:26 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <200310272200.23984.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272200.23984.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F9DCF5E.1030407@alteeve.com>

[root at hannah root]# fdisk -l

Disk /dev/hda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

    Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
/dev/hda1   *         1       522   4192933+   b  Win95 FAT32
/dev/hda2           523       587    522112+  83  Linux
/dev/hda3           588       718   1052257+  82  Linux swap
/dev/hda4           719      9076  67135635    f  Win95 Ext'd (LBA)
/dev/hda5           719      8036  58781803+  83  Linux
/dev/hda6          8037      8558   4192933+  83  Linux
/dev/hda7          8559      9076   4160803+  83  Linux

Disk /dev/hdb: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes

    Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
/dev/hdb1   *         1        33    265041   83  Linux
/dev/hdb2            34       164   1052257+  82  Linux swap
/dev/hdb3           165      9729  76830862+  83  Linux
[root at hannah root]# fdisk -l /dev/hdc
[root at hannah root]#

Nothing...

   After posting I started thinking; this is a Dell box and I had a 
problem once before where another Dell box with WinME/FAT32 had been 
setup using some funky PartitionMagic-type porgram so that the FAT32 
partition was not created as it would normally be. In that case the 
reasult was a drive where the backup copy of the FAT was placed on a 
logical head higher than the drive's default number of logical heads. I 
wonder if that might be similar (in a different way) to what is 
happening here.

   More: When I cat partitions -something- is seen:

[root at hannah proc]# cat partitions
major minor  #blocks  name     rio rmerge rsect ruse wio wmerge wsect 
wuse running use aveq

   22     0 1073741823 hdc 2 6 16 0 0 0 0 0 -10 1164540 31326712
    3     0   78150744 hda 9631 29172 308692 694810 3549 5535 72706 
185720 -9 1167390 31040812
    3     1    4192933 hda1 1 3 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 10 10
    3     2     522112 hda2 15 28 86 210 11 2 26 1690 0 1900 1900
    3     3    1052257 hda3 2 3 16 20 0 0 0 0 0 20 20
    3     4          1 hda4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    3     5   58781803 hda5 316 4051 34562 594690 437 214 5184 5670 2 
299670 601020
    3     6    4192933 hda6 9271 24936 273642 99630 3097 5316 67464 
178360 0 54770 278030
    3     7    4160803 hda7 10 59 162 70 4 3 32 0 0 70 70
    3    64   78150744 hdb 9 51 120 70 0 0 0 0 -11 1170530 30162072
    3    65     265041 hdb1 1 3 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 10 10
    3    66    1052257 hdb2 1 3 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
    3    67   76830862 hdb3 1 3 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
[root at hannah proc]#

   Notice the first line?

   Do you (or someone) know FDISK well enough to know what I might try 
to get a closer look at the drive? Well, I will keep looking... Thanks!

Madison

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> Le 27 Octobre 2003 20:54, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> 
>>Hi all,
>>
>>   I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
>>but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
>>I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
>>boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
>>-l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
>>booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
>>sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
>>flush HDC...
> 
> 
> you did fdisk /dev/hdc?
> 
> 
>>   So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32
>>hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be
>>found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!
>>
>>Madison
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 03:10:51 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:10:51 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DCC4A.7020801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310272210.51911.fraser@wehave.net>

On Monday 27 October 2003 20:54, Madison Kelly wrote:

>    I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
> but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
> I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
> boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
> -l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
> booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
> sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
> flush HDC...

What do you mean when you say "nothing" ;-)  Is there an error message, what 
is the exit status of the mount command?

Could it be ntfs and not vfat?  Is the drive showing up correctly in the BIOS?  
How are you trying to access the drive .. TomsRB, knoppix, Linux (which 
distro) installed on hda?  What devices show up in /proc/ide/ ?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 03:16:02 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:16:02 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DCF5E.1030407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272200.23984.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DCF5E.1030407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310272216.04216.marc@lijour.net>

Le 27 Octobre 2003 21:07, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> [root at hannah root]# fdisk -l
>
> Disk /dev/hda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>
>     Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/hda1   *         1       522   4192933+   b  Win95 FAT32
> /dev/hda2           523       587    522112+  83  Linux
> /dev/hda3           588       718   1052257+  82  Linux swap
> /dev/hda4           719      9076  67135635    f  Win95 Ext'd (LBA)
> /dev/hda5           719      8036  58781803+  83  Linux
> /dev/hda6          8037      8558   4192933+  83  Linux
> /dev/hda7          8559      9076   4160803+  83  Linux
>
> Disk /dev/hdb: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>
>     Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/hdb1   *         1        33    265041   83  Linux
> /dev/hdb2            34       164   1052257+  82  Linux swap
> /dev/hdb3           165      9729  76830862+  83  Linux
> [root at hannah root]# fdisk -l /dev/hdc
> [root at hannah root]#
>
> Nothing...
>
>    After posting I started thinking; this is a Dell box and I had a
> problem once before where another Dell box with WinME/FAT32 had been
> setup using some funky PartitionMagic-type porgram so that the FAT32
> partition was not created as it would normally be. In that case the
> reasult was a drive where the backup copy of the FAT was placed on a
> logical head higher than the drive's default number of logical heads. I
> wonder if that might be similar (in a different way) to what is
> happening here.
>
>    More: When I cat partitions -something- is seen:
>
> [root at hannah proc]# cat partitions
> major minor  #blocks  name     rio rmerge rsect ruse wio wmerge wsect
> wuse running use aveq
>
>    22     0 1073741823 hdc 2 6 16 0 0 0 0 0 -10 1164540 31326712
>     3     0   78150744 hda 9631 29172 308692 694810 3549 5535 72706
> 185720 -9 1167390 31040812
>     3     1    4192933 hda1 1 3 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 10 10
>     3     2     522112 hda2 15 28 86 210 11 2 26 1690 0 1900 1900
>     3     3    1052257 hda3 2 3 16 20 0 0 0 0 0 20 20
>     3     4          1 hda4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
>     3     5   58781803 hda5 316 4051 34562 594690 437 214 5184 5670 2
> 299670 601020
>     3     6    4192933 hda6 9271 24936 273642 99630 3097 5316 67464
> 178360 0 54770 278030
>     3     7    4160803 hda7 10 59 162 70 4 3 32 0 0 70 70
>     3    64   78150744 hdb 9 51 120 70 0 0 0 0 -11 1170530 30162072
>     3    65     265041 hdb1 1 3 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 10 10
>     3    66    1052257 hdb2 1 3 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
>     3    67   76830862 hdb3 1 3 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
> [root at hannah proc]#
>
>    Notice the first line?
>
>    Do you (or someone) know FDISK well enough to know what I might try
> to get a closer look at the drive? Well, I will keep looking... Thanks!
>
> Madison

ok.
From the man page I see:
Some versions of MS-DOS create a first partition which does  not  begin
       on  a cylinder boundary, but on sector 2 of the first cylinder.  Parti-
       tions beginning in cylinder 1 cannot begin on a cylinder boundary,  but
       this  is  unlikely  to  cause  difficulty  unless you have OS/2 on your
       machine.
Which may seem to be your case (given your output), however I don't see 
anything looking like a remedy here :(

>
> Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Le 27 Octobre 2003 20:54, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> >>Hi all,
> >>
> >>   I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
> >>but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
> >>I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
> >>boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
> >>-l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
> >>booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
> >>sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
> >>flush HDC...
> >
> > you did fdisk /dev/hdc?
> >
> >>   So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32
> >>hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be
> >>found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!
> >>
> >>Madison
> >>
> >>--
> >>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 03:17:33 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:17:33 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DCF5E.1030407-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272200.23984.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DCF5E.1030407@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310272217.35056.marc@lijour.net>


Have you tried sfdisk?

Le 27 Octobre 2003 21:07, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> [root at hannah root]# fdisk -l
>
> Disk /dev/hda: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>
>     Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/hda1   *         1       522   4192933+   b  Win95 FAT32
> /dev/hda2           523       587    522112+  83  Linux
> /dev/hda3           588       718   1052257+  82  Linux swap
> /dev/hda4           719      9076  67135635    f  Win95 Ext'd (LBA)
> /dev/hda5           719      8036  58781803+  83  Linux
> /dev/hda6          8037      8558   4192933+  83  Linux
> /dev/hda7          8559      9076   4160803+  83  Linux
>
> Disk /dev/hdb: 80.0 GB, 80026361856 bytes
> 255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 9729 cylinders
> Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
>
>     Device Boot    Start       End    Blocks   Id  System
> /dev/hdb1   *         1        33    265041   83  Linux
> /dev/hdb2            34       164   1052257+  82  Linux swap
> /dev/hdb3           165      9729  76830862+  83  Linux
> [root at hannah root]# fdisk -l /dev/hdc
> [root at hannah root]#
>
> Nothing...
>
>    After posting I started thinking; this is a Dell box and I had a
> problem once before where another Dell box with WinME/FAT32 had been
> setup using some funky PartitionMagic-type porgram so that the FAT32
> partition was not created as it would normally be. In that case the
> reasult was a drive where the backup copy of the FAT was placed on a
> logical head higher than the drive's default number of logical heads. I
> wonder if that might be similar (in a different way) to what is
> happening here.
>
>    More: When I cat partitions -something- is seen:
>
> [root at hannah proc]# cat partitions
> major minor  #blocks  name     rio rmerge rsect ruse wio wmerge wsect
> wuse running use aveq
>
>    22     0 1073741823 hdc 2 6 16 0 0 0 0 0 -10 1164540 31326712
>     3     0   78150744 hda 9631 29172 308692 694810 3549 5535 72706
> 185720 -9 1167390 31040812
>     3     1    4192933 hda1 1 3 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 10 10
>     3     2     522112 hda2 15 28 86 210 11 2 26 1690 0 1900 1900
>     3     3    1052257 hda3 2 3 16 20 0 0 0 0 0 20 20
>     3     4          1 hda4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
>     3     5   58781803 hda5 316 4051 34562 594690 437 214 5184 5670 2
> 299670 601020
>     3     6    4192933 hda6 9271 24936 273642 99630 3097 5316 67464
> 178360 0 54770 278030
>     3     7    4160803 hda7 10 59 162 70 4 3 32 0 0 70 70
>     3    64   78150744 hdb 9 51 120 70 0 0 0 0 -11 1170530 30162072
>     3    65     265041 hdb1 1 3 8 10 0 0 0 0 0 10 10
>     3    66    1052257 hdb2 1 3 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
>     3    67   76830862 hdb3 1 3 8 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
> [root at hannah proc]#
>
>    Notice the first line?
>
>    Do you (or someone) know FDISK well enough to know what I might try
> to get a closer look at the drive? Well, I will keep looking... Thanks!
>
> Madison
>
> Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Le 27 Octobre 2003 20:54, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> >>Hi all,
> >>
> >>   I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
> >>but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
> >>I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
> >>boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
> >>-l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
> >>booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
> >>sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
> >>flush HDC...
> >
> > you did fdisk /dev/hdc?
> >
> >>   So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32
> >>hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be
> >>found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!
> >>
> >>Madison
> >>
> >>--
> >>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 02:21:44 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:21:44 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <200310272210.51911.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272210.51911.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3F9DD2B8.2030009@alteeve.com>

It is indeed FAT32 (My Win2k partition sees the part fine). I am running 
Redhat 9.0 with the OS on various partions on /dev/hda. here is what I 
get when I try to probe the drive:

[root at hannah proc]# fdisk /dev/hdc

Unable to open /dev/hdc
[root at hannah proc]# mount /dev/hdc /mnt/backup
mount: /dev/hdc: can't read superblock
[root at hannah proc]# fdisk -l /dev/hdc
[root at hannah proc]#

Here is what's in /proc/ide:

[root at hannah /]# cd proc/ide/
[root at hannah ide]# ls -lah
total 0
dr-xr-xr-x    4 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:15 .
dr-xr-xr-x   94 root     root            0 Oct 27 15:45 ..
-r--r--r--    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:15 drivers
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            8 Oct 27 21:15 hda -> ide0/hda
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            8 Oct 27 21:15 hdb -> ide0/hdb
lrwxrwxrwx    1 root     root            8 Oct 27 21:15 hdc -> ide1/hdc
dr-xr-xr-x    4 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:15 ide0
dr-xr-xr-x    3 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:15 ide1
-r--r--r--    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:15 via
[root at hannah ide]# cd hdc
[root at hannah hdc]# ls -lah
total 0
dr-xr-xr-x    2 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 .
dr-xr-xr-x    3 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 ..
-r--r--r--    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 capacity
-r--r--r--    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 driver
-r--------    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 identify
-r--r--r--    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 media
-r--r--r--    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 model
-rw-------    1 root     root            0 Oct 27 21:16 settings
[root at hannah hdc]#

[root at hannah hdc]# cat capacity
2147483647
[root at hannah hdc]# cat driver
ide-default version 0.9.newide
[root at hannah hdc]# cat identify
045a 3fff c837 0010 0000 0000 003f 0000
0000 0000 2020 2020 2020 2020 2039 5a50
395a 5a57 3538 3437 0003 0300 0004 4a53
324f 4142 3841 4942 4d2d 444a 5341 2d32
3130 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020
2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 2020 8010
0000 0f00 4000 0200 0200 0007 3fff 0010
003f fc10 00fb 0110 b230 012b 0000 0007
0003 0078 0078 00f0 0078 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
003c 0015 746b 41a8 4000 f469 0008 4000
101f 0008 0000 4080 fffe 600b 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0001 000b 0000 0002 0000 0000 0000 0000
41fc 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000
0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 0000 20a5
[root at hannah hdc]# cat media
disk
[root at hannah hdc]# cat model
IBM-DJSA-210
[root at hannah hdc]# cat settings
name                    value           min             max             mode
----                    -----           ---             ---             ----
current_speed           68              0               70              rw
init_speed              12              0               70              rw
io_32bit                1               0               3               rw
keepsettings            0               0               1               rw
nice1                   0               0               1               rw
number                  2               0               3               rw
pio_mode                write-only      0               255             w
slow                    0               0               1               rw
unmaskirq               1               0               1               rw
using_dma               1               0               1               rw
[root at hannah hdc]#

Anything stand out? Obviously the drive IS there! Thanks for the help!

Madison

Fraser Campbell wrote:
> On Monday 27 October 2003 20:54, Madison Kelly wrote:
> 
> 
>>   I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
>>but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
>>I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
>>boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
>>-l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
>>booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
>>sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
>>flush HDC...
> 
> 
> What do you mean when you say "nothing" ;-)  Is there an error message, what 
> is the exit status of the mount command?
> 
> Could it be ntfs and not vfat?  Is the drive showing up correctly in the BIOS?  
> How are you trying to access the drive .. TomsRB, knoppix, Linux (which 
> distro) installed on hda?  What devices show up in /proc/ide/ ?
> 

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 02:23:04 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:23:04 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <200310272217.35056.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272200.23984.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DCF5E.1030407@alteeve.com> <200310272217.35056.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F9DD308.4080300@alteeve.com>

Nope, but I will look into it just now and report what I learn...

Beacoup Merci! :)

Madison

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> Have you tried sfdisk?

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 03:26:44 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:26:44 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DD308.4080300-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272217.35056.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DD308.4080300@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310272226.45549.marc@lijour.net>

Le 27 Octobre 2003 21:23, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> Nope, but I will look into it just now and report what I learn...
>
> Beacoup Merci! :)

Superbe!  



> Madison
>
> Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Have you tried sfdisk?
>
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 02:27:40 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:27:40 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <200310272226.45549.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272217.35056.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DD308.4080300@alteeve.com> <200310272226.45549.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F9DD41C.4080704@alteeve.com>

It has been a while but I took french immersion from grade 1 through 10. 
:) Anywho, I tried:

[root at hannah hdc]# sfdisk /dev/hdc
/dev/hdc: Input/output error

sfdisk: cannot open /dev/hdc read-write
[root at hannah hdc]#

Darnit!

Madison

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> Le 27 Octobre 2003 21:23, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> 
>>Nope, but I will look into it just now and report what I learn...
>>
>>Beacoup Merci! :)
> 
> 
> Superbe!  
> 
> 
> 
> 
>>Madison
>>
>>Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
>>
>>>Have you tried sfdisk?
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 03:33:05 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:33:05 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DD41C.4080704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272226.45549.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DD41C.4080704@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310272233.06934.marc@lijour.net>

Try this?

Check partitions
       The  third type of invocation: sfdisk -V device will apply various con-
       sistency checks to the partition tables on device.  It prints  `OK'  or
       complains.  The  -V  option  can  be  used together with -l. In a shell
       script one might use sfdisk -V -q device which only returns a status.

Le 27 Octobre 2003 21:27, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> It has been a while but I took french immersion from grade 1 through 10.
>
> :) Anywho, I tried:
>
> [root at hannah hdc]# sfdisk /dev/hdc
> /dev/hdc: Input/output error
>
> sfdisk: cannot open /dev/hdc read-write
> [root at hannah hdc]#
>
> Darnit!
>
> Madison
>
> Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> > Le 27 Octobre 2003 21:23, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> >>Nope, but I will look into it just now and report what I learn...
> >>
> >>Beacoup Merci! :)
> >
> > Superbe!
> >
> >>Madison
> >>
> >>Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> >>>Have you tried sfdisk?
> >>
> >>--
> >>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> >>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> > --
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>
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 02:36:44 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:36:44 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <200310272233.06934.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <200310272226.45549.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DD41C.4080704@alteeve.com> <200310272233.06934.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F9DD63C.2050700@alteeve.com>

[root at hannah proc]# sfdisk -V /dev/hdb
/dev/hdb: OK
[root at hannah proc]# sfdisk -V /dev/hdc
/dev/hdc: Input/output error

sfdisk: cannot open /dev/hdc for reading
[root at hannah proc]#

  GAHH!! Did I mention that I hate Dell? Well, I do. I know I can't 
prove it yet but I am sure this will turn out to be darn Dell oddities.

Madison

Thanks still!

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> Try this?
> 
> Check partitions
>        The  third type of invocation: sfdisk -V device will apply various con-
>        sistency checks to the partition tables on device.  It prints  `OK'  or
>        complains.  The  -V  option  can  be  used together with -l. In a shell
>        script one might use sfdisk -V -q device which only returns a status.
> 
> Le 27 Octobre 2003 21:27, Madison Kelly a ?crit :
> 

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 04:00:35 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:00:35 -0500
Subject: CD burners
Message-ID: <200310272300.36560.marc@lijour.net>

What are your best choices?

I heard about ASUS and Plextor.

Any advice?

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 03:02:31 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 22:02:31 -0500
Subject: CD burners
In-Reply-To: <200310272300.36560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310272300.36560.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <3F9DDC47.2090009@alteeve.com>

Plextor, bar none. They are more expensive but they are worth it.

Madison

Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> What are your best choices?
> 
> I heard about ASUS and Plextor.
> 
> Any advice?
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 05:02:00 2003
From: waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org (Walter Dnes)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:02:00 -0500
Subject: X error log questions
Message-ID: <20031028050200.GA400@m433>

  I've got Debian running mostly OK; just a few minor details to iron
out.

Question 1) The X log contains the following...

--
(WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic" does not exist.
        Entry deleted from font path.
(WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/" does not exist.
        Entry deleted from font path.
(WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo" does not exist.
        Entry deleted from font path.
(WW) The directory "/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi" does not exist.
        Entry deleted from font path.
--

/etc/X11/fs/config contains the very long line...

catalogue = /usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/cyrillic/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/CID,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Speedo/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/

  Well, I don't need or have Cyrillic fonts, so I understand that part of
the error message.  Where do I dig up Speedo and the 100dpi fonts ?


Question 2) The X log mentions that X tries to load a "generic mouse"
and a "configured mouse".  The "configured mouse" is OK.  The generic
mouse does not resemble what I've got attached, and it's listed as being
on device /dev/mice (serial port) and fails to load.  Can I ignore that
message ?


-- 
Walter Dnes <waltdnes-SLHPyeZ9y/tg9hUCZPvPmw at public.gmane.org>
Email users are divided into two classes;
1) Those who have effective spam-blocking
2) Those who wish they did
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From ben-2t5HQ58uLWk at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 05:02:29 2003
From: ben-2t5HQ58uLWk at public.gmane.org (benny k.)
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2003 23:02:29 -0600
Subject: CD burners
In-Reply-To: <3F9DDC47.2090009-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310272300.36560.marc@lijour.net> <3F9DDC47.2090009@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031028050229.GA6863@bagu.org>

On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:02:31PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Plextor, bar none. They are more expensive but they are worth it.

what makes them "worth it"?

ben
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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 05:27:56 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:27:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: CD burners
In-Reply-To: <20031028050229.GA6863-2t5HQ58uLWk@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031028050229.GA6863@bagu.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310280008240.10044-100000@tosh5100.net>

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, benny k. wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:02:31PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote:
> > Plextor, bar none. They are more expensive but they are worth it.
> 
> what makes them "worth it"?
> 
> ben

Plextor is the kind of quality, when it comes to burners.
What makes it worth it is their quality, plus their reliability.
Remeber, most of these companies will put new technology as it arises, 
while Plextor will steadily wait until technology stabilizes.

My first burner was a Mitsumi 2801TE (2x ide), and yes it still works, 
although I can't say I was happy with the service at the time. It came 
with Adaptec Easy Cd Creator 3.5 (yes, Windows ware), which it didn't even 
work! I had to update the firmware, download new software, and so forth...

Speaking of el-cheapo LG drives, I even bought a 52x for one of my other
desktops, and it didn't even allow me to record at the advertised rate
(52x - don't know how recommended this is either). Hmm, now would I want
to buy an LG drive again? No, thanks.

I actually have a USB 2.0 plextor 24x10x40, which costed me about $350 
dollars, roughly 10 months ago. I settled for the Plextor, as opposed to 
an Yamaha which had even faster advertised burning rates (40x), and it 
came with fancy technology which allowed me to burn images on a unused 
region of a cd. Whoopty-doo! :p

Was it worth, to get back to your question? Yes, if you have the money to 
lay down. It's the same with non-x86 hardware such as Macs, or even a 
Sparc, if any of you are lucky enough to have one of those. Pricy, but 
well worth it.

And for another thing, if you get a Plextor, you probably will not have 
any problems with Distros hosing your drives. :)

-- 
Teodor I.
http://penguincomputing.iwarp.com
GPG key fingerprint : 9AC8 A05C 78AD AD73 91DB  CBE4 B644 F402 FBFD 5927

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 05:34:23 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:34:23 -0500
Subject: CD burners
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310280008240.10044-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310280008240.10044-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <200310280034.23958.marc@lijour.net>

Le 28 Octobre 2003 00:27, Teodor Iliescu a ?crit :
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, benny k. wrote:
> > On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 10:02:31PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote:
> > > Plextor, bar none. They are more expensive but they are worth it.
> >
> > what makes them "worth it"?
> >
> > ben
>
> Plextor is the kind of quality, when it comes to burners.
> What makes it worth it is their quality, plus their reliability.
> Remeber, most of these companies will put new technology as it arises,
> while Plextor will steadily wait until technology stabilizes.
>
> My first burner was a Mitsumi 2801TE (2x ide), and yes it still works,
> although I can't say I was happy with the service at the time. It came
> with Adaptec Easy Cd Creator 3.5 (yes, Windows ware), which it didn't even
> work! I had to update the firmware, download new software, and so forth...
>
> Speaking of el-cheapo LG drives, I even bought a 52x for one of my other
> desktops, and it didn't even allow me to record at the advertised rate
> (52x - don't know how recommended this is either). Hmm, now would I want
> to buy an LG drive again? No, thanks.
>
> I actually have a USB 2.0 plextor 24x10x40, which costed me about $350
> dollars, roughly 10 months ago. I settled for the Plextor, as opposed to
> an Yamaha which had even faster advertised burning rates (40x), and it
> came with fancy technology which allowed me to burn images on a unused
> region of a cd. Whoopty-doo! :p
>
> Was it worth, to get back to your question? Yes, if you have the money to
> lay down. It's the same with non-x86 hardware such as Macs, or even a
> Sparc, if any of you are lucky enough to have one of those. Pricy, but
> well worth it.
>
> And for another thing, if you get a Plextor, you probably will not have
> any problems with Distros hosing your drives. :)
Ok, that's a good one ;)

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 05:22:30 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:22:30 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DCC4A.7020801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3870.216.138.194.32.1067318550.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Hi all,
>
>    I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
> but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
> I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
> boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
> -l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
> booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
> sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
> flush HDC...

It's a laptop drive... does it have 40 pins or 36? If 36, would the loss
of those 4 pins explain the problems you're seeing?

>    So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32
> hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be
> found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!

Boot the machine with a Win98 boot disk to see if the M$ partition shows
as a DOS or Non-DOS partition. From the other posts you said it's a Dell
machine, and if so was Win2k factory installed? I'm thinking Dell may have
added a touch of their own magic by loading a hidden partition for all
their proprietary crap.

Another thing is that with Win2k the permissions might prevent you from
seeeing the contents of the drive (? but would it prevent you from seeing
the drive?). Try
mount -t vfat -uid=0 -gid=0 umask=022 /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup
... see if that helps

-- 
Keith
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 05:06:29 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:06:29 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3870.216.138.194.32.1067318550.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <3870.216.138.194.32.1067318550.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9DF955.3060807@alteeve.com>

Hi Keith,

   Thanks for the reply, but I ran out of time to figure it out and 
instead created a FAT32 partition on one of my drives, booted into the 
cursed Win2k (where the Dell partition could be seen) and pushed the 
files over that way. Thank you though!

Madison

Keith Mastin wrote:
>>Hi all,
>>
>>   I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything
>>but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before
>>I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel,
>>boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk
>>-l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh)
>>booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS
>>sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to
>>flush HDC...
> 
> 
> It's a laptop drive... does it have 40 pins or 36? If 36, would the loss
> of those 4 pins explain the problems you're seeing?
> 
> 
>>   So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32
>>hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be
>>found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!
> 
> 
> Boot the machine with a Win98 boot disk to see if the M$ partition shows
> as a DOS or Non-DOS partition. From the other posts you said it's a Dell
> machine, and if so was Win2k factory installed? I'm thinking Dell may have
> added a touch of their own magic by loading a hidden partition for all
> their proprietary crap.
> 
> Another thing is that with Win2k the permissions might prevent you from
> seeeing the contents of the drive (? but would it prevent you from seeing
> the drive?). Try
> mount -t vfat -uid=0 -gid=0 umask=022 /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup
> ... see if that helps
> 

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 09:46:58 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 04:46:58 -0500
Subject: CD burners
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310280008240.10044-100000-jq2DWcKbyJLk1uMJSBkQmQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031028050229.GA6863@bagu.org>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310280008240.10044-100000@tosh5100.net>
Message-ID: <20031028044658.1f532382.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 00:27:56 -0500 (EST)
Teodor Iliescu <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> And for another thing, if you get a Plextor, you probably will not
> have any problems with Distros hosing your drives. :)

Now, now, that was only crappy $19.95 CDROM drives, not burners...

-- 
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Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Immortality -- a fate worse than death.
		-- Edgar A. Shoaff
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From tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 14:19:31 2003
From: tchitow-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Martin Duclos)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:19:31 -0500
Subject: rpm and flie permission
Message-ID: <Sea2-F41EbYyjlMFAVN00029039@hotmail.com>

Hi all,
I made an rpm with a tar archive which holds the contents of my hard drive. 
Then I create the rpm with the  tar, the file permissions are kept after the 
whole tar archive has been extracted to the BUILD directory. Then rpm takes 
the files in that directory and creates a cpio archive. When I extract that 
cpio from the rpm, I noticed some files have different permissions than what 
they had in the original archive. Namely, files in the /etc/ssh/. Can anyone 
explain why?
Thanx
Martin Duclos

_________________________________________________________________
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Mon Oct 27 23:06:17 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 01:06:17 +0200 (IST)
Subject: url suffix question
In-Reply-To: <3F9D7B8E.5000800-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9D7B8E.5000800@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310280104350.722@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Stephen Allen wrote:

> Has anyone seen a requested url in their web server logs that ends with a " ."?
> That's a space and a period. I cannot seeing it being a mistype as it was logged
> several times.
>
> Is this an attempt at an exploit of some kind?

It could be an exploit if given to a script (cgi). . represents the
current working directory. Depending on what the server does it might pass
. as an argument to the script. This may or may not cause trouble.

Otoh, it has happened to me to cut & paste a url from text complete with
ending dot, which was offset by a space from the url text (and sometimes
not offset).

Peter
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From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 16:45:26 2003
From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Toomas Karmo)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:45:26 -0500
Subject: package management again, and Debian
Message-ID: <20031028164526.GB25939@interlog.com>

I've been in correspondence with some people about package management. I
wrote my thoughts up at some length, and will recycle that piece of
writing for this listserv (since recycling may help a few readers, 
given the interest sparked  on the listserv
yesterday when Debian package management came up for discussion). 


Rapidly, 


Tom  = Tom Karmo
http://www.metascientia.com 
 

((RECYCLED-WRITING___ESSENTIALLY-QUOTE))
Dear Rob, Prof. MiddleAgedProf-IdentityConcealed, et al, 


Yes, as Rob remarks, Debian is available for zero dollars. 

Here's some further background on Debian and other distros: 

* Debian, unlike RedHat, Mandrake, SUSe, and Slackware, 
  has a charter, or similar constitutional 
  document, formally forswearing commercial ambition. 
  This insulates Debian from commercial pressures which have
  led RedHat at one point to incorporate beta software in a distro, 
  and have led Mandrake (when troubled, many months ago, by the
  French equivalent of Chapter 11) to make what appeared to me to 
  be a misleading statement, a piece of suit-speak. (Sorry, eveyone, 
  but I can't remember the DETAILS of the seeming fib, the
  seeming spin out of Armani/Calvin Klein/Gucci space. I just 
  remember being convinced that some Mandrake corporate pronouncement 
  was not candid.) 
  On the down side, it does make Debian a little slower than RedHat
  and Mandrake in rolling out new stuff. I SEEM to remember that it
  took Debian a long time to make the 2.4.x series of kernels
  available. And Debian does rely, I guess even more than Mandrake,
  on charitable contributions to keep its wheels turning.
* In appraising the quality of Debian, it is rational to check 
  the quality of documentation. I'm not as well briefed as I could
  be here, but can at least give a pointer to the best of the
  various Debian manuals: 
  http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/reference/reference.en.html
  (That's a manual under the umbrella of the Debian Documentation
  Project, or DBP.) I **SEEM** to remember that that manual 
  goes into the nitty-gritty of the Debian packaging formalism. 
  It's essential that that nitty-gritty be documented at
  the level of
  detail appropriate for a curious user.    
  We need to know, for example, how we can 
  inspect the actual script that installs a given package. 
  Say you are installing foo on your box. There has to be a script
  which decides what directories to create, what symbolic links
  to make, what permissions to
  bestow, etc, etc. The script might end up being VERY 
  complicated - as is indeed, I'm sure, the case with the Debian
  install of asrophysics tool IRAF, not as yet tested on my Debian box. 
  Recall that IRAF when installed in a more naive
  RedHat setting is quite tricky, obliging us to create a special
  account by hand, 
  and moreover to make the default shell for that account
  the rather archaic shell 
  tcsh rather than the contemporary shell bash. 
  I think that in Debian all that stuff no longer happens by hand, 
  but is scripted. 
  Further, I think we are given the
  e-mail adddress of the package maintainer, responsible for the
  sanity of the script. (Part of the Debian culture is a notion
  of human, as opposed to corporate,
  accountability: each package is associated with an 
  identifiable individual       
  responsible for it, who does such things as script-writing, 
  ideally liaising all the while
  with the upstream developers. The Debian IRAF
  package maintainer, then, is likely to be a careful script-writer
  who at least in the ideal case
  maintains contacts with the upstream people, the actual
  IRAF creaters, at the National Optical Astronomy Observatory. When
  he's puzzled on how to script something for the Debian IRAF
  installer, then, I hope, he 
  gets in touch with the actual IRAF programming team at NOAO.) 
* Syntax for my daily updates of the whole Debian system: 
  ((QUOTE)) 
  apt-get update
  apt-get check
  apt-get -u upgrade
  ((/QUOTE)) 
  This syntax updates the list of available packages in the Debian
  "stable" branch, then upgrades any package that has been updated
  in the last 24 hours. The apt-get tool is configured in such a way
  as to be sure to contact inter alia the special Debian server
  that urgently reflects security-related updates. 
* Size of Debian: 8 CDs if bought, for around CAN$70, 
  from the www.chguy.net guy in Manitoba or Saskatchewan or
  whatever. (One can burn one's own CDs for free. But
  the www.chguy.net provides tech support for no extra
  charge if asked, 
  and moreover ploughs some of the dollars he gets from his customers
  back into Debian, by way of a charitable donation.) 
  I think this is about twice the size of Mandrake and
  RedHat, meaning that we get extra goodies. (Sometimes we WANT
  extra goodies. Just Saturday night, I found it useful
  to run not IRC, but its archaic predecessor, talk. Unrusprisingly.
  talk was absent from my system, since it's IRC that I know and use: 
  but a rapid invocation of 
  apt-get install talk and apt-get install talkd fixed that problem,
  in just one minute.) 
  The trick is to install very selectively, 
  only puttiing in the packages thare are useful.
  The installer, conveniently, gives for each package not a 
  one-line description, but an 
  at-least-one-PARAGRAPH description, in some
  cases with some juicy detail like the URL of the upstream
  developer's organization. (Those 
  at-least-one-paragraph descriptions are
  part of what gets updated 
  daily with ((QUOTE)) apt-get update ((/QUOTE)).) 
* If Engineer-IdentityConcealed 
  needs to investigate distros at some stage, 
  he might find it helpful to contact the Dept of Physics at the
  University of Calgary. That particular Department runs on 
  Debian, not on RedHat. Of course RedHat will be NEARLY ubiquitous in
  the universe of North American physics-and-astronomy 
  departments. 
* Here's the full history of my involvement with all THREE distros: 
  +a__In ancient times, that is to say the summer of 1997, 
      I went for RedHat, since that particular distro was much
      in the news. I found a lot of software misconfigured, 
      but toughed it out. 
  +b__In perhaps the autumn 
      of 2000, Prof. EmeritusProf-IdentityConcealed and I together
      found a consultant, more recently vanished off the face of the
      earth, who was knowledgeable about distros. That consultant
      pointed us to Mandrake, as a firm which had started its rise
      to prominence by repairing RedHat's configuration errors. 
      Prof. EmeritusProf-IdentityConcealed 
      and I found Mandrake quite stable and clean. 
  +c__I've taken the position that I must find out what the
      best infotech engineers are doing and imitate them. (This
      rule ****ALWAYS**** works. Peple who followed that rule in 
      1955 or so would have found themselves using those new-fangled
      shortcuts, the "compilers", and making plans to replace their
      hot valves with so-called "transistors". People who followed
      that rule in 1965 would have taken "time sharing" seriously, 
      and would have deprecated the 
      then-almost-ubiquitous idea that you format your job
      as a stack of keypunched cards, which you hand  
      over the Computer Centre counter to a clerk.
      People who followed that rule 
      in 1985 would have found themselves in a Sun- 
      or HP- or IBM- or Digital-crafted Unix, to their
      great benefit, and would have bypassed such
      things as Microsoft. 
      People who followed that rule in 1995 would have migrated
      away from a restricted-licence 
      Unix to Linux, again to their benefit. 
      And I believe that when compilers first came out, many
      scoffed at them. And I KNOW that when time-sharing was new, 
      people thought it dirty. 
      And I boldly predict that people who follow my rule in
      2010 or 2015 will migrate away from Linux to a better, quite
      different, kernel, the "Hurd" kernel - already available as
      Debian GNU/Hurd, but not at present mature enough to be safe. 
      So, working in a spirit of considerable cynicism, I avoid
      **ANY** loyalties of a personal kind in operating system space: 
      as soon as the next Best Minds at M.I.T. 
      or Cambridge or Stanford or
      whatever get onto the Best Operating System Flavour, I 
      unashamedly follow them. Woof! Woof! I'm shameless, I stress.) 
      In the spring of 2003, I decided, on the strength of of
      conversations with Rob, that my infallible 
      rule now entailed a switch
      out of Mandrake into Debian. 



                                 Very rapidly, 
				 rather enjoying these mails, 


				 Tom 


PS: Engineer-IdentityConcealed, 
Prof. MiddleAgedProf-IdentityConcealed, 
whoever: Do forward this mail to anyone who
may need to see it at any stage. ((SNIP))


On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 12:52:02PM -0500, Robert Brockway wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, MiddleAgedProf-IdentityConcealed wrote:
> 
> > This is very interesting! What do the Debian and Mandrake management systems
> > cost?
> 
> I can't say much about Mankdrake (I rarely if ever use it) but will
> comment on Debian...
> 
> The software and the management system in Debian are completely free.
> 
> The Debian developers (about 400 individuals spread all across the world)
> maintain the highest levels of professionalism in the development of the
> distribution.  The distribution known as "Debian Stable" goes through
> months of rigorous testing and a code freeze[1] of several months.  This
> extensive testing not only provides for a very robust operating system,
> but it also allows for a powerful software management system.  The ease of
> maintaining a Debian Stable system (including adding security updates)
> has to be seen to be believed.
> 
> If there was sufficient interest in the possible deployment of Debian we
> could arrange a demonstration.  We would also be happy to show off the
> power of thinclient and some of the other capabilities available in modern
> systems like Debian.
> 
> [1] During a code freeze, only code required to fix security issues or
> bugs is added.  No software is moved to a newer version.
> 
> Rob
> 
> -- 
> Robert Brockway
> Senior Technical Consultant, OpenTrend Solutions.
> Phone: 416-669-3073, Email: rbrockway-wgAaPJgzrDxH4x6Dk/4f9A at public.gmane.org, http://www.opentrend.net
> OpenTrend Solutions: Reliable, secure solutions to real world problems.

((/RECYCLED-WRITING___ESSENTIALLY-QUOTE))


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 17:09:32 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:32 -0500
Subject: package management again, and Debian
In-Reply-To: <20031028164526.GB25939-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031028164526.GB25939@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20031028120932.2595c67f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:45:26 -0500
Toomas Karmo <verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I've been in correspondence with some people about package management.
> I wrote my thoughts up at some length, and will recycle that piece of
> writing for this listserv (since recycling may help a few readers, 
> given the interest sparked  on the listserv
> yesterday when Debian package management came up for discussion). 

Wow.

Thanks, that was a *very* thoughtful and well-argued piece of writing, I
really enjoyed reading it, and I'm more convinced than ever that
Debian is in my future. Technically speaking, I can't complain too much
about Mandrake, but the absolute dedication of the Debian "organization"
to GNU, free software, open source, the whole integrity thing really
appeals to me, and if you want it, Debian, as you point out, can be just
as "bleeding edge" as Mandrake or any other distro. I'd certainly miss
the Mandrake community that I've become a part of to some extent, but I
have to admit that I sometimes find the"higher beings" in that community
to be a bit on the arrogant side.

Anyway, very well done, loved it.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hate dying.
		-- Dave Johnson
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 17:32:56 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:32:56 -0500
Subject: package management again, and Debian
In-Reply-To: <20031028120932.2595c67f.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031028164526.GB25939@interlog.com>
	<20031028120932.2595c67f.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031028123256.12162311.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:09:32 -0500
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Technically speaking, I can't complain too much about Mandrake,

**note, I have not installed 9.2 yet! Over 300MB of bugfixes since
release is what I've heard so far...***

;-)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You have to run as fast as you can just to stay where you are.
If you want to get anywhere, you'll have to run much faster.
		-- Lewis Carroll
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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 17:48:19 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 12:48:19 -0500
Subject: url suffix question
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310280104350.722-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9D7B8E.5000800@yahoo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310280104350.722@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <3F9EABE3.5040004@yahoo.ca>

Peter L. Peres wrote:

> On Mon, 27 Oct 2003, Stephen Allen wrote:
> 
> 
>>Has anyone seen a requested url in their web server logs that ends with a " ."?
>>That's a space and a period. I cannot seeing it being a mistype as it was logged
>>several times.
>>
>>Is this an attempt at an exploit of some kind?
> 
> 
> It could be an exploit if given to a script (cgi). . represents the
> current working directory. Depending on what the server does it might pass
> . as an argument to the script. This may or may not cause trouble.
> 
> Otoh, it has happened to me to cut & paste a url from text complete with
> ending dot, which was offset by a space from the url text (and sometimes
> not offset).

Yeah, I was thinking the latter at first, but am unsure, when I see it multiple 
times in the log. Thanks for the input.


-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 18:06:25 2003
From: mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (MERC)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:06:25 +0000
Subject: RH Strange Behaviour
Message-ID: <20031028180625.YNAR8133.web01-imail.rogers.com@localhost>

Hello,
I hope someone can give me a hand... I've been happily using my RH9 without any problems until two days ago, when I shut it down to relocate the box.
Once I restarted the machine, it made this sequence:
1. Displays the usual kernel selection screen
2. Displays the verbose startup, everything looks ok
3. Displays the usual D.O.S.-like window with the login user prompt
4. A distorted image appears in the whole window!
5. Seems that it knows something went wrong and...
6. Returns the sequence to step 3. 

It goes endlessly like that...Usually it went through steps 1-3 and in step 4, the login window would appear.

Any clue on what is happening and how to solve it?

Thanks in Advance,

MERC


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From jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 18:27:52 2003
From: jingsu-26n5VD7DAF2Tm46uYYfjYg at public.gmane.org (Jing Su)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:27:52 -0500
Subject: RH Strange Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <20031028180625.YNAR8133.web01-imail.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031028180625.YNAR8133.web01-imail.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310281326490.1136@epoch.cs>

Maybe your X-server is trying to start up but dying?

Try:
- change your run level to 3.
- log in at the text console prompt.
- try to start X using the 'startx' command.
- if X dies and kicks you back to console, then you know something has
broken X.

On Tue, 28 Oct 2003, MERC wrote:

> Hello,
> I hope someone can give me a hand... I've been happily using my RH9 without any problems until two days ago, when I shut it down to relocate the box.
> Once I restarted the machine, it made this sequence:
> 1. Displays the usual kernel selection screen
> 2. Displays the verbose startup, everything looks ok
> 3. Displays the usual D.O.S.-like window with the login user prompt
> 4. A distorted image appears in the whole window!
> 5. Seems that it knows something went wrong and...
> 6. Returns the sequence to step 3.
>
> It goes endlessly like that...Usually it went through steps 1-3 and in step 4, the login window would appear.
>
> Any clue on what is happening and how to solve it?
>
> Thanks in Advance,
>
> MERC
>
>
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 18:40:40 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 13:40:40 -0500
Subject: ProtFTP Troubles
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241733480.12198@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net
 .cable.rogers.com>
References: <20031024212751.GA1851@seahorse>
 <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCKEELCGAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241704250.12122@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net.cable.rogers.com>
 <20031024212751.GA1851@seahorse> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310241733480.12198@EviLUnb0rN.etob.phub.net
 .cable.rogers.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031028124207.01fba680@mail.interlog.com>

At 05:36 PM 10/24/2003 -0400, gbell72 wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 24, 2003 at 05:06:32PM -0400, gbell72 wrote:
> > > I've added AllowStoreRestart to my config but it still comes back to him
> > > permission denied..also whenever he attempts to start a new file he gets
> > > same thing..and as far as i can tell I've not edited anything that would
> > > be preventing him from doing so.
[snip]
>I'm assuming it's a
>   permissions problem but Im unsure how to set it right so he's able to
>   read and write to the dir's again.
>   When I configured everything I did chown -R ftp ftp-users
>   /home/gbell72/ftproot and chmod -R 770 /home/gbell72/ftproot.

I think it is a permissions problem. You have changed ownership of 
/home/gbell72/ftproot to ftp and group ownership to ftp-users and given 
only that user and group permissions to write in the directory. If you FTP 
to the machine and use the user ID of gbell72 and the associated password 
to log in you will not be able to write to the ftproot directory unless 
gbell72 is a member of the ftp-users group. If gbell72 is to be allowed 
write access to ftproot then you should chown the files and directory back 
to ownership by gbell72.

What are you trying to accomplish regarding your FTP setup? Are you trying 
to restrict access or allow others access to the directory in question?


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 19:02:03 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 28 Oct 2003 14:02:03 -0500
Subject: RH Strange Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <20031028180625.YNAR8133.web01-imail.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031028180625.YNAR8133.web01-imail.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <1067367723.17767.76.camel@yoda>

On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 13:06, MERC wrote:
> Hello,
> I hope someone can give me a hand... I've been happily using my RH9 without any problems until two days ago, when I shut it down to relocate the box.
> Once I restarted the machine, it made this sequence:
> 1. Displays the usual kernel selection screen
> 2. Displays the verbose startup, everything looks ok
> 3. Displays the usual D.O.S.-like window with the login user prompt
> 4. A distorted image appears in the whole window!
> 5. Seems that it knows something went wrong and...
> 6. Returns the sequence to step 3. 
> 
> It goes endlessly like that...Usually it went through steps 1-3 and in step 4, the login window would appear.
> 
> Any clue on what is happening and how to solve it?

Sounds like X is having issues with your video card.  Have a look at
your X86Config, possibly reduce the default resolution.  Either that or
ctrl-alt-plus or ctrl-alt-minus at the login screen.

Good luck!

Kareem

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/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The most important things in life aren't things.
    -- Anthony J. D'Angelo, The College Blue Book
 ********************************************************************/

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From mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 20:27:31 2003
From: mreategui-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (MERC)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 20:27:31 +0000
Subject: RH Strange Behaviour
Message-ID: <20031028202731.ZZBI8133.web01-imail.rogers.com@localhost>

Thanks a lot, Jing and Kareem!
I'll try your suggestions...
Best Regards,
MERC


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From grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 21:15:53 2003
From: grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Grant Cullen)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 16:15:53 -0500
Subject: RH Strange Behaviour
In-Reply-To: <1067367723.17767.76.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <1067367723.17767.76.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <FFEILCDECGKIGMACNBCCOEGGCGAA.grant.cullen@sympatico.ca>

Your post indicated that you relocated the box, no other changes.  That
being true possibly your video card may need to be reseated.

Grant Cullen
JADALL Consulting Ltd.
grant.cullen-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org
416-706-4447

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org]On Behalf Of Kareem
Shehata
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 14:02
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [TLUG]: RH Strange Behaviour


On Tue, 2003-10-28 at 13:06, MERC wrote:
> Hello,
> I hope someone can give me a hand... I've been happily using my RH9
without any problems until two days ago, when I shut it down to relocate the
box.
> Once I restarted the machine, it made this sequence:
> 1. Displays the usual kernel selection screen
> 2. Displays the verbose startup, everything looks ok
> 3. Displays the usual D.O.S.-like window with the login user prompt
> 4. A distorted image appears in the whole window!
> 5. Seems that it knows something went wrong and...
> 6. Returns the sequence to step 3.
>
> It goes endlessly like that...Usually it went through steps 1-3 and in
step 4, the login window would appear.
>
> Any clue on what is happening and how to solve it?

Sounds like X is having issues with your video card.  Have a look at
your X86Config, possibly reduce the default resolution.  Either that or
ctrl-alt-plus or ctrl-alt-minus at the login screen.

Good luck!

Kareem

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 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The most important things in life aren't things.
    -- Anthony J. D'Angelo, The College Blue Book
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From jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 00:48:01 2003
From: jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (John Myshrall)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 19:48:01 -0500
Subject: CD burners
In-Reply-To: <200310272300.36560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310272300.36560.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <200310281948.01900.jmyshrall@golden.net>

On October 27, 2003 11:00 pm, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:

> What are your best choices?
>
> I heard about ASUS and Plextor.
>
> Any advice?
>

Take a look at Liteon products. 

John 




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From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 02:15:02 2003
From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 21:15:02 -0500
Subject: CD burners
Message-ID: <20031029021502.DQZA8133.web01-imail.rogers.com@localhost>

I agree, Lite On actually manufactures Sony's burners, afaik.  I've got a Lite On and it works great.
> 
> From: John Myshrall <jmyshrall-6duGhz7i8susTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/28 Tue PM 07:48:01 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: CD burners
> 
> On October 27, 2003 11:00 pm, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> 
> > What are your best choices?
> >
> > I heard about ASUS and Plextor.
> >
> > Any advice?
> >
> 
> Take a look at Liteon products. 
> 
> John 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 03:08:28 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 22:08:28 -0500
Subject: package management again, and Debian
In-Reply-To: Message from Toomas Karmo <verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:45:26 EST." <20031028164526.GB25939-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org> 
References: <20031028164526.GB25939@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20031029030829.2BDE940A8@cbbrowne.com>

Toomas Karmo wrote...
> * Debian, unlike RedHat, Mandrake, SUSe, and Slackware, 
>   has a charter, or similar constitutional document, formally
>   forswearing commercial ambition. This insulates Debian from
>   commercial pressures which have led RedHat at one point to
>   incorporate beta software in a distro, and have led Mandrake (when
>   troubled, many months ago, by the French equivalent of Chapter 11)
>   to make what appeared to me to be a misleading statement, a piece of
>   suit-speak. (Sorry, eveyone, but I can't remember the DETAILS of the
>   seeming fib, the seeming spin out of Armani/Calvin Klein/Gucci
>   space. I just remember being convinced that some Mandrake corporate
>   pronouncement was not candid.)

That's quite a wonderful presentation on some of the differences between
Debian and other distributions.

But I have to disagree with the comments about the likelihood of Hurd
becoming a better choice.  That one is quite clearly a dead horse, at
this point.  Not only is it "not mature enough," it seems pretty
unlikely that it will become more mature any time soon.

The problem is that Hurd is tied to Mach, which never really got
properly finished, and which is tied to architectures that are rapidly
getting obsolete.  Hurd only supports filesystems up to 1GB in size, to
name the most problematic antifeature.  I can readily have more RAM than
that on hardware that is relatively pedestrian.  And the hardware I
_want_ supports on the order of 16GB.

I can't see Hurd returning to interest without them implementing a fresh
microkernel from scratch, which amounts to going pretty close to
starting over, and at that point, it's likely sensible to call it
something fresh.

Of course, by that point, it might be as sensible for (say) DragonFly
BSD (a project to build a highly threaded, message passing kernel) to be
run with a Debian or BSD Ports "user space" and have the improvements
we'll be looking for...
--
(reverse (concatenate 'string "moc.enworbbc" "@" "enworbbc"))
http://cbbrowne.com/info/
[Concerning  MSFT innovating  their way  out  of a  wet paper  bag...]
"Maybe if it were a very very  wet paper bag, but then they'd face the
insurmountable barrier of surface tension."
-- Geoffrey Tobin <G.Tobin-whe8GpziIQ27NGdpmJTKYQ at public.gmane.org>
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From blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 05:50:41 2003
From: blanco-S8qYAnHmZTt34ZA5RureAJ4VBq8PJc8F at public.gmane.org (Max Blanco)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 00:50:41 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Microsoft Must be held accountable.
In-Reply-To: <20031014011840.41FB93FEE-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031014011840.41FB93FEE@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310290044510.18508-100000@oddjob.utias.utoronto.ca>

On Mon, 13 Oct 2003 cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org wrote:

> > On Mon, 13 Oct 2003, Keith Mastin wrote:
> > 
> > > I don't think you can unincorporate until your books are free and clear
> > > and the creditors have been paid or those matters have been settled for
> > > the corporation. Until you do, it's still a viable entity and can come
> > > back to haunt you later.
> > 
> > I guess you didn't read my post about Dave & crew (Velocet/DSL.ca); you
> > can contact the trustee ("Judd, Gregory M." <gjudd-dvAlpm8UpAg at public.gmane.org>) for
> > confirmation that they walked away owing creditors ~$2M.
> > 
> > Last I heard, Dave was still driving a nice new Lincoln Navigator and just
> > finished building a new custom house.
> 
> Ah, but was Dave one of the officers of the corporation?  Or just an
> employee?
> 
> If he was the latter, then he likely isn't considered legally
> responsible for any of the company's debts.
> 
> If he _was_ an officer, then it's entirely possible that the story is
> not yet complete.
> 

Or, it was deemed by the court that to free him of his Navigator &c. would 
impose undue hardship on the man and his family.  


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 11:49:14 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:49:14 -0500
Subject: when dealing with an extortionist
In-Reply-To: <BAY2-F67DdcTD5uZJor0001947f-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F67DdcTD5uZJor0001947f@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F9FA93A.5050602@rogers.com>

This is all I got, when I clicked on that link.

"Your email message has been idle and this link has become inactive. To 
access the link, close this window and return to your MSN Hotmail 
Message. Then click the browser's Refresh button or close your message 
and reopen it. "

E K wrote:
> Every thing about SCO smells like dead fish. Here is another related 
> article.
> 
> http://65.54.246.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=06397de0fd0d0d397c1b25824457a372&lat=1061331581&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2flinuxtoday%2ecom%2fdeveloper%2f2003081901726OSCYLL 
> <http://65.54.246.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=06397de0fd0d0d397c1b25824457a372&lat=1061331581&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2flinuxtoday%2ecom%2fdeveloper%2f2003081901726OSCYLL>
> 
> I appreciate their nerve though!
> 

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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 11:50:00 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:50:00 -0500
Subject: Learning PHP
In-Reply-To: <Law14-F101nonHyYZM40004f5b8-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Law14-F101nonHyYZM40004f5b8@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3F9FA968.3010202@rogers.com>

Hugh Reilly wrote:
>> The best thing to deal with abbreviations is google.
>> You enter ?<the abbreviation> stands? and that?s it.
>> in this case you can read:
>> RTFM stands for Read the f*****g Manual
> 
> 
> That's news to me. I thought it meant Real Time Feasibility Management...

man RTFM.  ;-)


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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 11:51:47 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 06:51:47 -0500
Subject: My Sympatico account is recieving from the tlug list
 again.
In-Reply-To: <20030902201851.35fde200.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F5526BF.E3B5B25B@sympatico.ca> <20030902201851.35fde200.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9FA9D3.60002@rogers.com>

Joe Hill wrote:
> On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 19:24:47 -0400
> Mike Fisher <mikefisher-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> 
>>I started to receive the Tlug list again at about 12.30 pm today after
>>being blocked, cut off or whatever since the 16th of last month.
>>Thanks to those who tried to help (John Moniz, Herb etc.).
>>Unless it's a coincidence a complaint to abuse-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org caused it
>>to be fixed.
>>I got the usual robot reply last Thursday , no human follow-up but now
>>it's working.
> 
> 
> aaaah, that explains it. I thought the list had died off!
> 
> Sympatico fuckers! I'm switchin' soon's I get the chance!
> 

FWIW, my neighbour couldn't get going with Sympatico, due to 3 dud 
modems (one killed her phone line).  She gave up on them and switched to 
Rogers, which worked fine from the start.


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From IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 14:53:32 2003
From: IlyaPalagin-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Ilya Palagin)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 09:53:32 -0500
Subject: Backup to CD
Message-ID: <3F9FD46C.8020601@rogers.com>

Hi,

In addition to yesterday's backup discussion - utility for backing up 
filesystem to CD. It automatically creates bootable CD and doesn't work 
if there is <=32MB RAM available :-)


Package: mondo

Description: System to backup your filesystem to CDs
  Mondo uses afio as the backup engine.
  Mondo creates ISO images of your data to make a full backup of your 
system. It also makes the CDs to autorun and gives you several options 
to restore your  system.  In the event of catastrophic data loss, you 
may restore some or all of your system from those CDs, even if your hard 
drives are now blank.

(taken from Debian)

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From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 15:47:02 2003
From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:47:02 -0500
Subject: Backup to CD
In-Reply-To: <3F9FD46C.8020601-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9FD46C.8020601@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <3F9FE0F6.8010702@pcsecurityonline.com>

Ilya Palagin wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> In addition to yesterday's backup discussion - utility for backing up 
> filesystem to CD. It automatically creates bootable CD and doesn't work 
> if there is <=32MB RAM available :-)
> 
> 
> Package: mondo
> 
> Description: System to backup your filesystem to CDs
>  Mondo uses afio as the backup engine.
>  Mondo creates ISO images of your data to make a full backup of your 
> system. It also makes the CDs to autorun and gives you several options 
> to restore your  system.  In the event of catastrophic data loss, you 
> may restore some or all of your system from those CDs, even if your hard 
> drives are now blank.
> 
> (taken from Debian)
> 
> -- 
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> 
I have been using mondo for about three years now. It has saved my 
system during the Linux learning process ( READ - trashed systems ) many 
times. Download the new .iso file if you have the bandwidth. It contains 
all the dependencies for most systems, and has an installation system 
for most distros. I installed on suse 8.2 with no problems whatsoever.

http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/index.html

http://www.microwerks.net/~hugo/download/isos/mondo-install-cd.iso
The ISO is updated on Sundays and Mondays.


-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
(o_
//\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
V_/_                     Jason Shein
       		Linux Registered User #281100
		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 15:56:50 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:56:50 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
Message-ID: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>


I'm getting multiple dupes again, anyone else seeing this? Even stuff
from a month back...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed.
		-- Christopher Morley
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 15:59:35 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:59:35 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <200310210802.37496.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310201123.25751.fraser@wehave.net> <200310210802.37496.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <200310291059.35753.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 21 October 2003 08:02, Fraser Campbell wrote:

> On Monday 20 October 2003 11:23, Fraser Campbell wrote:
> > If anyone else is having a problem with this and is interested in my
> > scripts just say the word.
>
> I had a couple off list requests so I made a few scripts available at
> http://www.wehave.net/spam/ ... hopefully someone finds them useable.

Continuing my own little thread :-)

My worm problems have been reduced now to the point where they're tolerable.  
From a month of consistently receiving over 200 worms per day (a high of 348 
in one day) I am now down to 15, 15 and 16 over the past 3 days.  Whether my 
scripted complaints just coincided with an overall reduction of the worm on 
the Internet I don't know.

I suspect that some Debian mailing list subscribers got this worm and that's 
how I'm receiving so many copies.  I noticed that the Debian bug tracking 
system (works by email) is filled with this worm as well.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:03:10 2003
From: tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org (Terrence Enger)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:03:10 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4@mail.look.ca>

At 10:56 2003-10-29 -0500, you wrote:
>
>I'm getting multiple dupes again, anyone else seeing this? Even stuff
>from a month back...

Yup.  I got one yesterday dated August 16.

>
>-- 
>JoeHill
>Registered Linux user #282046
>Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed.
>		-- Christopher Morley
>--
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>
>

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From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:05:41 2003
From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:05:41 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3F9FE555.2070803@pcsecurityonline.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> I'm getting multiple dupes again, anyone else seeing this? Even stuff
> from a month back...
> 
Same here, but not just from this list. I am subscribed to the 
Mondo-devel mail list ( Mondo backup utility ), which is a sourcforge 
list, and I am recieving multiples there as well.

-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
(o_
//\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
V_/_                     Jason Shein
       		Linux Registered User #281100
		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:07:50 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:07:50 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <200310291059.35753.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310201123.25751.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310210802.37496.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310291059.35753.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031029110750.77251197.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:59:35 -0500
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I suspect that some Debian mailing list subscribers got this worm and
> that's how I'm receiving so many copies.  I noticed that the Debian
> bug tracking system (works by email) is filled with this worm as well.

Excuse my ignorance, please, but how in the blazes would someone running
Debian be spreading an MS worm? 

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Don't stop to stomp ants when the elephants are stampeding.
--
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:09:40 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:09:40 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4@mail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <20031029110940.25bb8d52.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:03:10 -0500
Terrence Enger <tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Yup.  I got one yesterday dated August 16.

Christ, I've had just about enough. I'm getting them on other lists too,
like Jason mentioned.

Ralph! As soon as I get ahold of a modem, yer gettin a call! LOL!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
An idea is not responsible for the people who believe in it.
--
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:25:03 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 11:25:03 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067444703.11668.1.camel@yoda>

Same here.  What's going on with the list?  I disappear for a while, and
things are even stranger!  :)

Kareem


On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 10:56, JoeHill wrote:
> 
> I'm getting multiple dupes again, anyone else seeing this? Even stuff
> from a month back...
> 
> -- 
> JoeHill
> Registered Linux user #282046
> Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> My theology, briefly, is that the universe was dictated but not signed.
> 		-- Christopher Morley

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:28:20 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 11:28:20 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <20031029110750.77251197.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310201123.25751.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310210802.37496.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310291059.35753.fraser@wehave.net> 
	<20031029110750.77251197.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067444901.11667.5.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 11:07, JoeHill wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 10:59:35 -0500
> Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > I suspect that some Debian mailing list subscribers got this worm and
> > that's how I'm receiving so many copies.  I noticed that the Debian
> > bug tracking system (works by email) is filled with this worm as well.
> 
> Excuse my ignorance, please, but how in the blazes would someone running
> Debian be spreading an MS worm? 

One of two obvious possibilities:

1) Debian people don't necessarily run *only* debian.  I run debian,
Mandrake, and XP.

2) Wine emulates the good, bad, and ugly of windows - including virii. 

Now, why in the world you would run Outlook, when Evolution and other
far superior apps are available natively is beyond me.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:30:03 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:30:03 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <1067444901.11667.5.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310201123.25751.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310210802.37496.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310291059.35753.fraser@wehave.net>
	<20031029110750.77251197.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1067444901.11667.5.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On 29 Oct 2003 11:28:20 -0500
Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> and XP.

For the love of sweet Jesus why?! ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If we do not change our direction we are likely to end up where we are
headed.
--
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 16:36:00 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:36:00 -0500
Subject: rpm and flie permission
In-Reply-To: <Sea2-F41EbYyjlMFAVN00029039-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <Sea2-F41EbYyjlMFAVN00029039@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200310291136.00697.fraser@wehave.net>

On Tuesday 28 October 2003 09:19, Martin Duclos wrote:
> Hi all,
> I made an rpm with a tar archive which holds the contents of my hard drive.
> Then I create the rpm with the  tar, the file permissions are kept after
> the whole tar archive has been extracted to the BUILD directory. Then rpm
> takes the files in that directory and creates a cpio archive. When I
> extract that cpio from the rpm, I noticed some files have different
> permissions than what they had in the original archive. Namely, files in
> the /etc/ssh/. Can anyone explain why?

Look at the files section of your rpm spec, have you used the defattr macro?

    %files
    %defattr(-,root,root)

IIRC rpm preserves permissions other than that.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

--
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 17:21:45 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 12:21:45 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310201123.25751.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310210802.37496.fraser@wehave.net>
	<200310291059.35753.fraser@wehave.net>
	<20031029110750.77251197.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1067444901.11667.5.camel@yoda> 
	<20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067448105.11668.11.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 11:30, JoeHill wrote:
> On 29 Oct 2003 11:28:20 -0500
> Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > and XP.
> 
> For the love of sweet Jesus why?! ;-)

Unfortunately, EE's have less choice than other "technology" people. 
Schematic, PCB, and FPGA tools are still predominantly Windows or
proprietary Unix.  I would love to use Orcad under Linux or BSD, same
thing for Synopsis or Cadence.

Alas, only the Xilinx tools run decently under Wine.  I've heard rumours
that Xilinx will be pushing more Linux solutions Real Soon Now, but I'm
waiting to see if they actually release anything native.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:19:24 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 13:19:24 -0500
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <200310150815.40677.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310150405.21996.marc@lijour.net>
	<20031015043557.469c299a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1066218269.2027.4.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> 
	<200310150815.40677.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <1067451564.11668.13.camel@yoda>

Okay, what's going on here?  I'm not on sympatico, and my mail server
seems to be running fine for everything else.  So what's the deal with
old dupes?

Kareem

On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 08:15, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)
wrote:
> Le 15 Octobre 2003 07:44, Austin Acton a ?crit :
> > On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 04:35, JoeHill wrote:
> > > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
> > >
> > > "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > > > You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)
> > >
> > > Isn't that only for Club members?
> >
> > Yes, bittorrent access is supposed to be for club members only (although
> > I'm sure someone will leak the torrents eventually).  This is for the
> > ISO's only, and they will be posted publicly in two weeks.
> 
> The logic of bittorrent isn't it that the more we share the faster it goes?
> 
> 
> > Of course the mirrors already contain the 9.2 tree, so you can install
> > by http of ftp if you have broadband....
> >
> > BTW, it's a KILLER release!
> >
> > Austin
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:14:50 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:14:50 -0500
Subject: The most recent meeting
In-Reply-To: <1062790550.1189.4.camel-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <B5446598-DAE0-11D7-9153-00039310151E@axxent.ca> <20030830145921.146354FCFC@smtp.us2.messagingengine.com> <1062790550.1189.4.camel@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031029181450.GA349@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Sep 05, 2003 at 03:35:51PM -0400, Lloyd D Budd wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-08-30 at 10:59, Andrew Malcolmson wrote:
> > Maybe we should have pointed out that non-commercial Linux software
> > is mostly distributed in rpm or deb format and installed by way of
> > package managers and therefore actually simpler than installing on
> > Windows.  We could have, by way of contrast, demonstrated installing
> > AbiWord or OpenOffice (from a local source) with Synaptic.
> 
> The question still remains, why would anyone want to install MS
> Office?  ;-)

Because it works the way "Office program" is expected to work.  It is
the ORIGINAL office product, and everybody wants to copy it.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:16:32 2003
From: hughreilly1-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Hugh Reilly)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:16:32 -0500
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
Message-ID: <BAY10-F77plX2CKZrkj0002a513@hotmail.com>

I got a TLUG email from myself today that I sent a month ago.



-Hugh
_______________________________________________
Hugh Reilly
XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab
600 Bay Street, Suite 405
Toronto ON  M5R 1G6
tel: 416-204-9951
fax: 416-204-9723
email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
_______________________________________________
http://www.xen.ca  |  http://www.linuxlab.ca





>From: Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>
>Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Mandrake9.2 is out!
>Date: 29 Oct 2003 13:19:24 -0500
>
>Okay, what's going on here?  I'm not on sympatico, and my mail server
>seems to be running fine for everything else.  So what's the deal with
>old dupes?
>
>Kareem
>
>On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 08:15, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)
>wrote:
> > Le 15 Octobre 2003 07:44, Austin Acton a ??crit :
> > > On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 04:35, JoeHill wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
> > > >
> > > > "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > > > > You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)
> > > >
> > > > Isn't that only for Club members?
> > >
> > > Yes, bittorrent access is supposed to be for club members only 
>(although
> > > I'm sure someone will leak the torrents eventually).  This is for the
> > > ISO's only, and they will be posted publicly in two weeks.
> >
> > The logic of bittorrent isn't it that the more we share the faster it 
>goes?
> >
> >
> > > Of course the mirrors already contain the 9.2 tree, so you can install
> > > by http of ftp if you have broadband....
> > >
> > > BTW, it's a KILLER release!
> > >
> > > Austin
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> > --
> > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>--
>/*********************************************************************
>       kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
>  --------------------------------------------------------------------
>   I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
>   ended up where I intended to be.
>     -- Douglas Adams
>  ********************************************************************/
>
>--
>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.  
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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From marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:22:36 2003
From: marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique))
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:22:36 -0500
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <BAY10-F77plX2CKZrkj0002a513-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY10-F77plX2CKZrkj0002a513@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <200310291322.36983.marc@lijour.net>

Le 29 Octobre 2003 13:16, Hugh Reilly a ?crit :
> I got a TLUG email from myself today that I sent a month ago.

You should have sent it directly to yourself :)

>
>
> -Hugh
> _______________________________________________
> Hugh Reilly
> XEN Technology Group | LinuxLab
> 600 Bay Street, Suite 405
> Toronto ON  M5R 1G6
> tel: 416-204-9951
> fax: 416-204-9723
> email: info-2K4XOyu7qTosA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org
> _______________________________________________
> http://www.xen.ca  |  http://www.linuxlab.ca
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org>
>
> >Reply-To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> >Subject: Re: [TLUG]: Mandrake9.2 is out!
> >Date: 29 Oct 2003 13:19:24 -0500
> >
> >Okay, what's going on here?  I'm not on sympatico, and my mail server
> >seems to be running fine for everything else.  So what's the deal with
> >old dupes?
> >
> >Kareem
> >
> >On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 08:15, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)
> >
> >wrote:
> > > Le 15 Octobre 2003 07:44, Austin Acton a ?crit :
> > > > On Wed, 2003-10-15 at 04:35, JoeHill wrote:
> > > > > On Wed, 15 Oct 2003 04:05:20 -0400
> > > > >
> > > > > "Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)" <marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> > > > > > You can download ISOs through bittorrent (peers)
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't that only for Club members?
> > > >
> > > > Yes, bittorrent access is supposed to be for club members only
> >
> >(although
> >
> > > > I'm sure someone will leak the torrents eventually).  This is for the
> > > > ISO's only, and they will be posted publicly in two weeks.
> > >
> > > The logic of bittorrent isn't it that the more we share the faster it
> >
> >goes?
> >
> > > > Of course the mirrors already contain the 9.2 tree, so you can
> > > > install by http of ftp if you have broadband....
> > > >
> > > > BTW, it's a KILLER release!
> > > >
> > > > Austin
> > >
> > > --
> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> > >
> > > --
> > > The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> > > TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> > > How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> >
> >--
> >/*********************************************************************
> >       kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
> >  --------------------------------------------------------------------
> >   I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
> >   ended up where I intended to be.
> >     -- Douglas Adams
> >  ********************************************************************/
> >
> >--
> >The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> >TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>
> _________________________________________________________________
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> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
>
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:32:00 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 13:32:00 -0500
Subject: Mandrake9.2 is out!
In-Reply-To: <200310291322.36983.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY10-F77plX2CKZrkj0002a513@hotmail.com> 
	<200310291322.36983.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <1067452320.11668.18.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 13:22, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique)
wrote:
> Le 29 Octobre 2003 13:16, Hugh Reilly a ?crit :
> > I got a TLUG email from myself today that I sent a month ago.
> 
> You should have sent it directly to yourself :)

Perhaps he wanted to remind himself of a thought a month later.

Now, if we can make this listserv spew dupes of mail from the future,
that would be really useful!

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:37:25 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:37:25 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4-BF7s+LSmFG27ALip+uieHQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4@mail.look.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA008E5.50503@yahoo.ca>

Terrence Enger wrote:

> At 10:56 2003-10-29 -0500, you wrote:
> 
>>I'm getting multiple dupes again, anyone else seeing this? Even stuff
> 
>>from a month back...

It's not just Sympatico, I've been getting messages from back in August this 
morning.

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From skuznets-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:49:18 2003
From: skuznets-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:49:18 -0500
Subject: AEI suxx for Linux customers.
Message-ID: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov@blueprint.org>

Hi everyone,

Some history:
Now I am urgently looking for ADSL connection, because my previous
connection was with my previous employer (MCI/UUNET).

I have few my personal domains and don't have any bussines web-sites
at all.
But the strange thing is what my phone number is not recognized as
phne number which have the ADSL servise in my area, but it is servising,
because I had my ADSL connection in this area for full 3 years and
ILEC is Bell itself.
For now I am loosing my email, and I am desperately need my new ADSL
connection. I tried to reach IStop but Ralph recomended me to connect to
Sympatico for the first month and then to transfer my connection to
IStop, but I can't afford it, because I can't change my DNS IP address
every two days and wait 2 days more when it will propagated around the
world.

I started to look at canadianisp.com, and find what AEI looks very nice to me 
as good as IStop does. I called them to check if they are allow to have
fixed IP and servers on customer side, and they are said what they are
disallow to do that.
"In this case", I told to AEI, "you won't see any Linux customers, who is well 
experiensed, and who is not the pain in their ass, but who needs the fixed IP 
and server allowance"

Okey, Now is the question: Is there any ADSL provider, who can give the fixed 
IP and allows server on customer side, and quite reliable financialy and 
technicaly?


-- 
All the Best!
-----------------
Sergey Kuznetsov
Senior Software Developer
Blueprint Initiative
Samuel Lunenfeld Research Institute
at Mount Sinai Hospital
--
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From henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:52:26 2003
From: henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org (Henry Spencer)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:52:26 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031029135010.23727C-100000@spsystems.net>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:
> > and XP.
> 
> For the love of sweet Jesus why?! ;-)

There are unfortunate people who are constrained to run applications which
just won't run in civilized environments. 

                                                          Henry Spencer
                                                       henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 18:58:45 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:58:45 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSI.3.91.1031029135010.23727C-100000-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031029135010.23727C-100000@spsystems.net>
Message-ID: <20031029135845.4385056d.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 13:52:26 -0500 (EST)
Henry Spencer <henry-lqW1N6Cllo0sV2N9l4h3zg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> There are unfortunate people who are constrained to run applications
> which just won't run in civilized environments. 

I know, just a silly rhetorical question, hence the ;-). All those have
my deepest and most heartfelt sympathies.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Reality does not exist -- yet.
--
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:01:22 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:01:22 -0500
Subject: AEI suxx for Linux customers.
In-Reply-To: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov@blueprint.org>
Message-ID: <20031029190122.GA447@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 01:49:18PM -0500, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Some history:
> Now I am urgently looking for ADSL connection, because my previous
> connection was with my previous employer (MCI/UUNET).
> 
> I have few my personal domains and don't have any bussines web-sites
> at all.
> But the strange thing is what my phone number is not recognized as
> phne number which have the ADSL servise in my area, but it is servising,
> because I had my ADSL connection in this area for full 3 years and
> ILEC is Bell itself.
> For now I am loosing my email, and I am desperately need my new ADSL
> connection. I tried to reach IStop but Ralph recomended me to connect to
> Sympatico for the first month and then to transfer my connection to
> IStop, but I can't afford it, because I can't change my DNS IP address
> every two days and wait 2 days more when it will propagated around the
> world.
> 
> I started to look at canadianisp.com, and find what AEI looks very nice to me 
> as good as IStop does. I called them to check if they are allow to have
> fixed IP and servers on customer side, and they are said what they are
> disallow to do that.
> "In this case", I told to AEI, "you won't see any Linux customers, who is well 
> experiensed, and who is not the pain in their ass, but who needs the fixed IP 
> and server allowance"
> 
> Okey, Now is the question: Is there any ADSL provider, who can give the fixed 
> IP and allows server on customer side, and quite reliable financialy and 
> technicaly?

If you're in GTA, try Echo.ca.  Doesn't care about servers.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:09:42 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 14:09:42 -0500
Subject: AEI suxx for Linux customers.
In-Reply-To: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov@blueprint.org>
Message-ID: <1067454582.11668.22.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 13:49, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote:
> Okey, Now is the question: Is there any ADSL provider, who can give the fixed 
> IP and allows server on customer side, and quite reliable financialy and 
> technicaly?

Depends on what you mean by "reliable financially"?

I've had great service with Sentex <http://sentex.net>, though the
$20/month they want to charge for a static IP is seriously making me
consider calling Ralph.  Otherwise, they've been remarkable both in
terms of service (it's really nice getting a real tech on the phone) and
product (reliable + fast = good).

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:11:23 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 14:11:23 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <20031029135845.4385056d.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031029135010.23727C-100000@spsystems.net> 
	<20031029135845.4385056d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067454684.11668.25.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 13:58, JoeHill wrote:
> I know, just a silly rhetorical question, hence the ;-). All those have
> my deepest and most heartfelt sympathies.

While I appreciate the feelings, if you could code up a state-of-the-art
EDA or VHDL toolset, it would go a lot farther ;-)

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From skuznets-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:20:34 2003
From: skuznets-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ at public.gmane.org (Sergey Kuznetsov)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:20:34 -0500
Subject: AEI suxx for Linux customers.
In-Reply-To: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov@blueprint.org>
Message-ID: <200310291420.34175.skuznets@blueprint.org>

Ralph,

You and your guys are great =)

Phil checked my phone number for availability =)
I am going to be your customer. =)


-- 
All the Best!
-----------------
Sergey Kuznetsov
Senior Software Developer
Blueprint Initiative
Samuel Lunenfeld Research Institute
at Mount Sinai Hospital
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:21:06 2003
From: Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (Carola Koitz)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:21:06 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
References: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4@mail.look.ca> <20031029110940.25bb8d52.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA01322.2030607@sympatico.ca>

I  got old list stuff  from september. I wasn't even on the list at that 
time.
We switched to istop yesterday.
It's just a couple of days and then good bye Sympatico.

JoeHill wrote:

>On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 11:03:10 -0500
>Terrence Enger <tenger-ew0EfhANLmVEfu+5ix1nRw at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>  
>
>>Yup.  I got one yesterday dated August 16.
>>    
>>
>
>Christ, I've had just about enough. I'm getting them on other lists too,
>like Jason mentioned.
>
>Ralph! As soon as I get ahold of a modem, yer gettin a call! LOL!
>
>  
>

-------------- next part --------------
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:21:42 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:21:42 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <1067454684.11668.25.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031029135010.23727C-100000@spsystems.net>
	<20031029135845.4385056d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1067454684.11668.25.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <20031029142142.630b40b9.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On 29 Oct 2003 14:11:23 -0500
Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> While I appreciate the feelings, if you could code up a
> state-of-the-art EDA or VHDL toolset, it would go a lot farther ;-)

Okay, I'll try to learn C by next week, after that it shouldn't be too
hard to write those from scratch.

Keep in mind, though, I don't want to take away *too* much time from my
other projects: curing cancer, finalizing Grand Unified Theory, and
creating an Artificial Intelligence.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing is so firmly believed as that which we least know.
		-- Michel de Montaigne
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 20:27:06 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:27:06 -0500 (EST)
Subject: AEI suxx for Linux customers.
In-Reply-To: <200310291420.34175.skuznets-WRMZ5ucGVl4BXFe83j6qeQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310291349.18342.sergey.kuznetsov@blueprint.org>
 <200310291420.34175.skuznets@blueprint.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310291525500.12159@ns.istop.com>

Good to hear it.
The service at a technical level won't be much different than Sentex
though; even though they're from London, Mike & the crew do a pretty good
job. ;-)

Ralph Doncaster, IStop.com president
6042147 Canada Inc.

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, Sergey Kuznetsov wrote:

> Ralph,
>
> You and your guys are great =)
>
> Phil checked my phone number for availability =)
> I am going to be your customer. =)
>
>
> --
> All the Best!
> -----------------
> Sergey Kuznetsov
> Senior Software Developer
> Blueprint Initiative
> Samuel Lunenfeld Research Institute
> at Mount Sinai Hospital
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:32:35 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 29 Oct 2003 14:32:35 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <20031029142142.630b40b9.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031029135010.23727C-100000@spsystems.net>
	<20031029135845.4385056d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1067454684.11668.25.camel@yoda> 
	<20031029142142.630b40b9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067455955.11668.27.camel@yoda>

On Wed, 2003-10-29 at 14:21, JoeHill wrote:
> Keep in mind, though, I don't want to take away *too* much time from my
> other projects: curing cancer, finalizing Grand Unified Theory, and
> creating an Artificial Intelligence.

Beh... focus on GUT if you must.  I'm sure all of the other trivial
details will fall out as consequences of the proof.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  I may not have gone where I intended to go, but I think I have
  ended up where I intended to be.
    -- Douglas Adams
 ********************************************************************/

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:26:16 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:26:16 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <3FA01322.2030607-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4@mail.look.ca>
	<20031029110940.25bb8d52.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3FA01322.2030607@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031029142616.1f4ab54e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:21:06 -0500
Carola Koitz <Carola.Koitz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I  got old list stuff  from september. I wasn't even on the list at
> that time.
> We switched to istop yesterday.
> It's just a couple of days and then good bye Sympatico.

I'm not too far behind ya...!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
All hope abandon, ye who enter here!
		-- Dante Alighieri
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 19:34:33 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 14:34:33 -0500
Subject: Fighting back against Swen/Gibe.F
In-Reply-To: <1067455955.11668.27.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029113003.34323f30.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.BSI.3.91.1031029135010.23727C-100000@spsystems.net>
	<20031029135845.4385056d.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1067454684.11668.25.camel@yoda>
	<20031029142142.630b40b9.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1067455955.11668.27.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <20031029143433.08a8fdb5.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On 29 Oct 2003 14:32:35 -0500
Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Beh... focus on GUT if you must.  I'm sure all of the other trivial
> details will fall out as consequences of the proof.

LOL! Good point...


-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Push where it gives and scratch where it itches.
--
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Tue Oct 28 16:25:52 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 18:25:52 +0200 (IST)
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3870.216.138.194.32.1067318550.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com> <3870.216.138.194.32.1067318550.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310281824590.616@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


imho set dma=0 and pio=0 (or 1) for /dev/hdc using hdparm. You have a
basic IO error. You should try hdparm to check the transfer to the
controller.

Peter
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From cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 21:23:23 2003
From: cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (cybervoyager)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:23:23 -0500
Subject: Steve Ballmer Questions Open Source Code Security
Message-ID: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>

... interesting video, some of it very laughable to say the least.

Steve Ballmer questions open-source code security 
  a.. http://news.com.com/1601-2-5095074.html
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From verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 21:46:01 2003
From: verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Toomas Karmo)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:46:01 -0500
Subject: after Linux, what? in place of Hurd, Eros, Brazil,...?
Message-ID: <20031029214601.GB2221@interlog.com>

Thanks to Christopher Browne (http://cbbrowne.com/info/)
for opening up an important topic, making it clear that I had
overstated the merits of Hurd:

((QUOTE)) 
The problem is that Hurd is tied to Mach, which never really got
properly finished, and which is tied to architectures that are rapidly
getting obsolete.  Hurd only supports filesystems up to 1GB in size, to
name the most problematic antifeature.  I can readily have more RAM than
that on hardware that is relatively pedestrian.  And the hardware I
_want_ supports on the order of 16GB.

I can't see Hurd returning to interest without them implementing a fresh
microkernel from scratch, which amounts to going pretty close to
starting over, and at that point, it's likely sensible to call it
something fresh.

Of course, by that point, it might be as sensible for (say) DragonFly
BSD (a project to build a highly threaded, message passing kernel) to be
run with a Debian or BSD Ports "user space" and have the improvements
we'll be looking for...
((/QUOTE)) 

I hereby recant. It's now NOT clear that Hurd is the Next Great Thing. 

At this point
I'd like to ask whether anyone can peer into a crystal ball and see
what the Next Great Thing might be. Rob Brockway has referred in passing
to Eros, Brazil, and Plan9 as interesting operating systems. Do any of
these have passionate backers? Is anyone  on the listserv
keen to wade in and DEFEND Hurd? 

My motive for stirring up this hornet's nest is to improve some writing
that I have been doing on the world as it is likely to be in 2184, when
fossil fuels are exhausted and society is recovering from a
general infrastructure
collapse. I paint a picture of a culture that scrapes together
enough energy from wind turbines to run light railways, and also to
implement
**SOME** of what Jeremy Rifkin has optimistically hailed as the 
impending "hydrogen economy". In
the course of this writing (in that part of my
narrative which depicts  
a stroll through far-future rural Kent, in the
company of Saint Thomas More), I have the following historical
flashback:

((HISTORICAL_FLASHBACK__IN_CHAPTER_2_OF_"UTOPIA 2184"))

Commons and enclosure. 

A grey afternoon in England. The farmer, his goodwife, their four
children, their diminutive pony-cart heaped with such chattels as an
agricultural family may command in 1520. The better chattels - the pots
and fire-irons and bedstead, and of course the pony and cart - they will
sell at auction in the town. The pouch of shillings thus realized will
suffice to buy lodging and food for some few weeks. After? God will
provide, or not. Behind them, workmen from the manor house are already
ripping thatch from gable. My lord's fence shall run here, says the
shire-reeve, and here, and here, 

Commons and enclosure. 

Linux, though rather ad hoc, met a need. In the 1980s, Unix was an
enclosure, propertized. Richard Stallman in Massachusetts thought he saw
limitations in proprietary software. He and likeminded programmers
founded the "Open Source" movement, donating to the emerging
cybercommons first this tool, then that: they developed a text editor,
an ANSI C compiler, a command-line interpreter, another text editor, ...
GNU, they called their initiative, for 'GNUS's not Unix.' Witty, like
that learned footnote ever so meticulously explaining that real number e
is permitted, yet not required, to be the base of the natural
logarithms. Unpack the recursion, and you get 'GNU's not Unix's not
Unix', and then 'GNUS's not Unix's not Unix's not Unix', ad infinitum.

What was lacking (or, rather, what never seemed to get finished) was a
non-propertized kernel. A kernel: core software bringing order and good
government to an entire workstation or server. The kernel is the
software that coordinates. 

At the University of Helsinki, Linus Torvalds built a rudimentary
kernel. Version 1.0 was completed in 1994. He named his creation Linux.
Linux rocked, ruled. The suits liked it, started companies with names
like Red Hat, sought to make money as consultants even while keeping the
source code open, visible in the commons, open to continual peer review.
A step, then, in the right direction. Of course people in the know
sniffed at Red Hat, installed Debian GNU/Linux instead. Debian GNU/Linux
was the Linux distro with the public charter formally forswearing
commercial ambition. And the distro with the best formalism for finding,
installing, monitoring, uninstalling software packages. 

Work on an alternative to Linux continued under the rubric 'Debian
GNU/Hurd'. 'Hurd', it was explained in the commons, was short for 'Hird
of Unix-Replacing Daemons', and 'Hird' short for 'Hurd of Interfaces
Representing Depth.' 'Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons' thus itself
expanded to 'Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing
Daemons', which itself expanded to 'Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons of
Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing Daemons', ad infinitum.
Witty. 

The wider significance of the 1990s cybercommons did not escape the
notice of social commentator Jeremy Rifkin. Here, he wrote, was a model
for the creation of a new energy- distribution infrastructure. He
published The Hydrogen Economy: The Creation of the World-Wide Energy
Web and the Redistribution of Power on Earth at J.P. Tarcher/Putnam on
2002 September 12. Rifkin's work was rightly criticized as erring on the
side of optimism. Nevertheless, it pointed a way forward, a tenable line
of development, tenable even for wretched peoples reduced to hammering
out the more basic turbine parts with hand tools. 
((/HISTORICAL_FLASHBACK__IN_CHAPTER_2_OF_"UTOPIA 2184"))

Christopher Browne's comments suggest that this flashback will have to
be edited or rewritten, perhaps by simply cutting out the 
discussion of Hurd. It would be nice to hear from anyone with
suggestions on appropriate points to make in a rewrite. 

If you need wider context, you can find 
"Utopia 2184" in its entirety in the "Literary" section of
http://www.metascientia.com.



Rapidly, 


Tom = Tom Karmo
http://www.metascientia.com 
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From Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 22:07:58 2003
From: Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:07:58 -0500
Subject: How much does Dell pay to MS for an OEM XP?
Message-ID: <bnpdoi$i74$1@sea.gmane.org>

I need to buy a PC for someone who isn't ready for Linux, and I don't want
to push them to Linux prematurely.  Instead I'm going to get them a WinXP
machine and try to minimize the damage.  My concern is that if I go to my
corner store and buy a PC with an OEM XP home, that's $140 (- markup) that
goes to MS.

I heard that only $10 goes to MS if I buy from Dell instead (though I prefer
not to).  Is this true?

If so, then I should buy from Dell to avoid feeding MS too much.  It also
means that the corner PC shops are in serious trouble.

Is there another Dell-like company, that also gets XP for cheap, but isn't
Dell?

Thanks,
Tom.



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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 22:12:06 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:12:06 -0500
Subject: after Linux, what? in place of Hurd, Eros, Brazil,...?
In-Reply-To: <20031029214601.GB2221-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029214601.GB2221@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20031029221206.GA1471@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 04:46:01PM -0500, Toomas Karmo wrote:
> Thanks to Christopher Browne (http://cbbrowne.com/info/)
> for opening up an important topic, making it clear that I had
> overstated the merits of Hurd:
...
> I hereby recant. It's now NOT clear that Hurd is the Next Great Thing. 
> 
> At this point
> I'd like to ask whether anyone can peer into a crystal ball and see
> what the Next Great Thing might be. Rob Brockway has referred in passing
> to Eros, Brazil, and Plan9 as interesting operating systems. Do any of
> these have passionate backers? Is anyone  on the listserv
> keen to wade in and DEFEND Hurd? 

Hurd is dead for the forseeable future, not because of any technical
merit (there are many thing we use that we know is full of ...), but
because of lack of interest from developers.  It could be that

    1. All PhD thesis materials have been exhausted in OS/kernel area.
    
    2. It doesn't give significant improvement over existing solution.

    3. They don't have access to hardware.  Kernel development is
    intrinsically tied to hardware.  Linux was developed on and for
    i386.  North/South America is spoken for; maybe Europe as well.
    Perhaps, India/China will choose to develop their own CPU, and their
    users may choose different OS/kernel.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 22:31:02 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:31:02 -0500
Subject: How much does Dell pay to MS for an OEM XP?
In-Reply-To: <bnpdoi$i74$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <bnpdoi$i74$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20031029223102.GA1621@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 05:07:58PM -0500, Tom wrote:
> I need to buy a PC for someone who isn't ready for Linux, and I don't
> want to push them to Linux prematurely.  Instead I'm going to get them
> a WinXP machine and try to minimize the damage.  My concern is that if
> I go to my corner store and buy a PC with an OEM XP home, that's $140
> (- markup) that goes to MS.
> 
> I heard that only $10 goes to MS if I buy from Dell instead (though I
> prefer not to).  Is this true?
> 
> If so, then I should buy from Dell to avoid feeding MS too much.  It
> also means that the corner PC shops are in serious trouble.
> 
> Is there another Dell-like company, that also gets XP for cheap, but
> isn't Dell?

Buy the components and assemble yourself.  Then, buy/borrow/reuse
Windows 9x/Me/XP/20xx/whatever.  Make to get 2 harddisks, one for
Windows and the other for Linux.  It will probably be cheaper.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 22:57:20 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 17:57:20 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029105650.00faa377.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA045D0.90902@rogers.com>

JoeHill wrote:
> I'm getting multiple dupes again, anyone else seeing this? Even stuff
> from a month back...
> 

Yes.  I guess they're trying to make sure everyone receives their spam.  ;-)


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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 23:22:34 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:22:34 -0500
Subject: Sympatico's at it again?
In-Reply-To: <3FA008E5.50503-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3.0.3.32.20031029110310.010186f4@mail.look.ca> <3FA008E5.50503@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA04BBA.2040108@sympatico.ca>

Stephen Allen wrote:

> Terrence Enger wrote:
>
>> At 10:56 2003-10-29 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>> I'm getting multiple dupes again, anyone else seeing this? Even stuff
>>
>>
>>> from a month back...
>>
>
> It's not just Sympatico, I've been getting messages from back in 
> August this morning.
>
Maybe we should be worried about what ss.org is doing.

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From Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 23:50:40 2003
From: Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 18:50:40 -0500
Subject: after Linux, what? in place of Hurd, Eros, Brazil,...?
References: <20031029214601.GB2221@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <bnpjoc$lh5$1@sea.gmane.org>

Personally, I'm not a technical or moral purist.  I want to see the success
of an OS that represents the types of values espoused by many in the OSS
community.

For success to be possible, some compromise is necessary.

Being a C++ programmer, I would have liked a C++ based OS, like BeOS.  But
if we each follow our own fancy then we will all end up having to use
Windows in our jobs (as I currently do).  Linux has, through whatever
process, become the OS for this community.

Tom.

"Toomas Karmo" <verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> wrote in
message news:20031029214601.GB2221-qazKcTl6WRGtq2lpoERdew at public.gmane.org
> Thanks to Christopher Browne (http://cbbrowne.com/info/)
> for opening up an important topic, making it clear that I had
> overstated the merits of Hurd:
>
> ((QUOTE))
> The problem is that Hurd is tied to Mach, which never really got
> properly finished, and which is tied to architectures that are rapidly
> getting obsolete.  Hurd only supports filesystems up to 1GB in size, to
> name the most problematic antifeature.  I can readily have more RAM than
> that on hardware that is relatively pedestrian.  And the hardware I
> _want_ supports on the order of 16GB.
>
> I can't see Hurd returning to interest without them implementing a fresh
> microkernel from scratch, which amounts to going pretty close to
> starting over, and at that point, it's likely sensible to call it
> something fresh.
>
> Of course, by that point, it might be as sensible for (say) DragonFly
> BSD (a project to build a highly threaded, message passing kernel) to be
> run with a Debian or BSD Ports "user space" and have the improvements
> we'll be looking for...
> ((/QUOTE))
>
> I hereby recant. It's now NOT clear that Hurd is the Next Great Thing.
>
> At this point
> I'd like to ask whether anyone can peer into a crystal ball and see
> what the Next Great Thing might be. Rob Brockway has referred in passing
> to Eros, Brazil, and Plan9 as interesting operating systems. Do any of
> these have passionate backers? Is anyone  on the listserv
> keen to wade in and DEFEND Hurd?
>
> My motive for stirring up this hornet's nest is to improve some writing
> that I have been doing on the world as it is likely to be in 2184, when
> fossil fuels are exhausted and society is recovering from a
> general infrastructure
> collapse. I paint a picture of a culture that scrapes together
> enough energy from wind turbines to run light railways, and also to
> implement
> **SOME** of what Jeremy Rifkin has optimistically hailed as the
> impending "hydrogen economy". In
> the course of this writing (in that part of my
> narrative which depicts
> a stroll through far-future rural Kent, in the
> company of Saint Thomas More), I have the following historical
> flashback:
>
> ((HISTORICAL_FLASHBACK__IN_CHAPTER_2_OF_"UTOPIA 2184"))
>
> Commons and enclosure.
>
> A grey afternoon in England. The farmer, his goodwife, their four
> children, their diminutive pony-cart heaped with such chattels as an
> agricultural family may command in 1520. The better chattels - the pots
> and fire-irons and bedstead, and of course the pony and cart - they will
> sell at auction in the town. The pouch of shillings thus realized will
> suffice to buy lodging and food for some few weeks. After? God will
> provide, or not. Behind them, workmen from the manor house are already
> ripping thatch from gable. My lord's fence shall run here, says the
> shire-reeve, and here, and here,
>
> Commons and enclosure.
>
> Linux, though rather ad hoc, met a need. In the 1980s, Unix was an
> enclosure, propertized. Richard Stallman in Massachusetts thought he saw
> limitations in proprietary software. He and likeminded programmers
> founded the "Open Source" movement, donating to the emerging
> cybercommons first this tool, then that: they developed a text editor,
> an ANSI C compiler, a command-line interpreter, another text editor, ...
> GNU, they called their initiative, for 'GNUS's not Unix.' Witty, like
> that learned footnote ever so meticulously explaining that real number e
> is permitted, yet not required, to be the base of the natural
> logarithms. Unpack the recursion, and you get 'GNU's not Unix's not
> Unix', and then 'GNUS's not Unix's not Unix's not Unix', ad infinitum.
>
> What was lacking (or, rather, what never seemed to get finished) was a
> non-propertized kernel. A kernel: core software bringing order and good
> government to an entire workstation or server. The kernel is the
> software that coordinates.
>
> At the University of Helsinki, Linus Torvalds built a rudimentary
> kernel. Version 1.0 was completed in 1994. He named his creation Linux.
> Linux rocked, ruled. The suits liked it, started companies with names
> like Red Hat, sought to make money as consultants even while keeping the
> source code open, visible in the commons, open to continual peer review.
> A step, then, in the right direction. Of course people in the know
> sniffed at Red Hat, installed Debian GNU/Linux instead. Debian GNU/Linux
> was the Linux distro with the public charter formally forswearing
> commercial ambition. And the distro with the best formalism for finding,
> installing, monitoring, uninstalling software packages.
>
> Work on an alternative to Linux continued under the rubric 'Debian
> GNU/Hurd'. 'Hurd', it was explained in the commons, was short for 'Hird
> of Unix-Replacing Daemons', and 'Hird' short for 'Hurd of Interfaces
> Representing Depth.' 'Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons' thus itself
> expanded to 'Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing
> Daemons', which itself expanded to 'Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons of
> Interfaces Representing Depth of Unix-Replacing Daemons', ad infinitum.
> Witty.
>
> The wider significance of the 1990s cybercommons did not escape the
> notice of social commentator Jeremy Rifkin. Here, he wrote, was a model
> for the creation of a new energy- distribution infrastructure. He
> published The Hydrogen Economy: The Creation of the World-Wide Energy
> Web and the Redistribution of Power on Earth at J.P. Tarcher/Putnam on
> 2002 September 12. Rifkin's work was rightly criticized as erring on the
> side of optimism. Nevertheless, it pointed a way forward, a tenable line
> of development, tenable even for wretched peoples reduced to hammering
> out the more basic turbine parts with hand tools.
> ((/HISTORICAL_FLASHBACK__IN_CHAPTER_2_OF_"UTOPIA 2184"))
>
> Christopher Browne's comments suggest that this flashback will have to
> be edited or rewritten, perhaps by simply cutting out the
> discussion of Hurd. It would be nice to hear from anyone with
> suggestions on appropriate points to make in a rewrite.
>
> If you need wider context, you can find
> "Utopia 2184" in its entirety in the "Literary" section of
> http://www.metascientia.com.
>
>
>
> Rapidly,
>
>
> Tom = Tom Karmo
> http://www.metascientia.com
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 00:06:51 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:06:51 -0500
Subject: Steve Ballmer Questions Open Source Code Security
In-Reply-To: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18-ZK5pCpJID5Y@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
Message-ID: <20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:23:23 -0500
"cybervoyager" <cybervoyager-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> ... interesting video, some of it very laughable to say the least.

He seems to have a thing about China...he was quoted somewhere, I can't
remember where now, about security patches for open-source
software coming from"someone in China in the middle of the night...".
He's losing it; Linux is getting to him; they're losing server market
share; MS Enterprise salespeople are finding it tough to convince
clients that MS is the way to go when the internet is awash with MS
security exploits.

http://news.com.com/2100-1009_3-5072672.html?tag=fd_top

http://www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=1883

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/30426.html

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Good-bye.  I am leaving because I am bored.
		-- George Saunders' dying words
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 00:14:27 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:14:27 -0500
Subject: Steve Ballmer Questions Open Source Code Security
In-Reply-To: <20031029190651.106e7055.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha> <20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 07:06:51PM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
> He seems to have a thing about China...he was quoted somewhere, I can't
> remember where now, about security patches for open-source
> software coming from"someone in China in the middle of the night...".
> He's losing it; Linux is getting to him; they're losing server market
> share; MS Enterprise salespeople are finding it tough to convince
> clients that MS is the way to go when the internet is awash with MS
> security exploits.
> 
> http://news.com.com/2100-1009_3-5072672.html?tag=fd_top
> 
> http://www.entmag.com/news/article.asp?EditorialsID=1883
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/30426.html

Yes, and look at all those IT jobs that Microsoft created.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 00:16:07 2003
From: cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Jim Ruxton)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:16:07 -0500
Subject: Upgrading RH7.2 to RH9 questions
Message-ID: <3FA05847.6000102@passport.ca>

I'm going to upgrade a dual boot XP , RH7.2 laptop to dual boot XP, RH9 
. I have some questions that I was hoping someone could help me with.
I think I'm just going to install RH9 rather than update RH7.2 so I can 
start over. RH7.2 was my first Linux system and I've learned a lot. My 
file systems are a bit messed up so I think I'd rather start from 
scratch . I want the new install to be as painless as possible so I 
figure there are some things I should save like the files beneath  ~/  . 
  Are there other files I should save to make my life easy when I 
upgrade ?  I figure my old XF86Config-4 would be a good thing to have 
handy. Yes I have backups but I want the files I really need to be 
easily accessible.
 I  also want to save all my email and bookmarks. I'm currently using 
Mozilla 1.0 . Is there an easy way to do this?
When I start the install will the RH9 CD's recognize that I have a dual 
boot system and leave my XP partition alone.?
Will the install automatically delete my old system (Rh7.2 files) or do 
I have to do that manually?
I'm a bit nervous to start all over from scratch. It was a bitch getting 
everything working in the first place but then I knew nothing about 
Linux at that point. Thanks for any hints on the best way to proceed.
Jim

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 00:53:49 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:53:49 -0500
Subject: after Linux, what? in place of Hurd, Eros, Brazil,...?
In-Reply-To: <20031029214601.GB2221-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029214601.GB2221@interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20031029195349.54d4d8ea.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 16:46:01 -0500
Toomas Karmo <verbum-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> The problem is that Hurd is tied to Mach, which never really got
> properly finished, and which is tied to architectures that are rapidly
> getting obsolete.  Hurd only supports filesystems up to 1GB in size,
> to name the most problematic antifeature.  I can readily have more RAM
> than that on hardware that is relatively pedestrian.  And the hardware
> I_want_ supports on the order of 16GB.

Well, FreeBSD 4.9 supports up to 64GB of memory, and it runs on almost
any architecture.

>From their "features" page:

    "FreeBSD's developers attacked some of the more difficult problems
in operating systems design to give you these advanced features:

 * A merged virtual memory and filesystem buffer cache
continuously tunes the amount of memory used for programs and the disk
cache. As a result, programs receive both excellent memory management
and high performance disk access, and the system administrator is freed
from the task of tuning cache sizes.       
 * Compatibility modules enable programs for other operating systems to
run on FreeBSD, including programs for Linux, SCO UNIX, NetBSD, and
BSD/OS.       
 * Kernel Queues allow programs to respond more efficiently to a variety
of asynchronous events including file and socket IO, improving
application and system performance.       
 * Accept Filters allow connection-intensive applications, such as web
servers, to cleanly push part of their functionality into the operating
system kernel, improving performance.      
 * Soft Updates allows improved filesystem performance without
sacrificing safety and reliability. It analyzes meta-data filesystem
operations to avoid having to perform all of those operations
synchronously. Instead, it maintains internal state about pending
meta-data operations and uses this information to cache meta-data,
rewrite meta-data operations to combine subsequent operations on the
same files, and reorder meta-data operations so that they may be
processed more efficiently.       
 * Support for IPsec and IPv6 allows improved security in networks, and
support for the next-generation Internet Protocol, IPv6.

    Work in-progress includes support for fine-grained SMP locking in
kernel, allowing higher performance on multi-processor machines, support
for Scheduler Activations, allowing parallelism in threaded programs,
filesystem snapshots, fsck-free booting, network optimizations such as
zero-copy sockets and event-driven socket IO, ACPI support, and advanced
security features such as Mandatory Access Control."

But can I watch The Matrix and play Quake? ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you have to hate, hate gently.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 00:57:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:57:09 -0500
Subject: Steve Ballmer Questions Open Source Code Security
In-Reply-To: <20031030001427.GA2077-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
	<20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031029195709.124d0965.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:14:27 -0500
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Yes, and look at all those IT jobs that Microsoft created.

That's like saying "look how all that indiscriminate bombing helped the
construction industry".

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Nothing is but what is not.
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 01:04:25 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 20:04:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: after Linux, what? in place of Hurd, Eros, Brazil,...?
In-Reply-To: <20031029195349.54d4d8ea.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029214601.GB2221@interlog.com> <20031029195349.54d4d8ea.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310292003200.5943@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> Well, FreeBSD 4.9 supports up to 64GB of memory, and it runs on almost
> any architecture.

Yep, so can Linux.  That number is a function of PAE on the IA32
architecture.  On IA64  maximum addressable memory is _huge_.

Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 02:04:54 2003
From: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org (Peter Hiscocks)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:04:54 -0500
Subject: The evolution of spam
Message-ID: <20031029210454.B26745@ee.ryerson.ca>


Wow, this one is not in ALL CAPS, so I guess they finally found the Caps
Lock key. Also, there is an embedded web page url! The Nigerian Scam gets
its own web page!

Now that's progress.

Peter



----- Forwarded message from DAVID GUEI <dgue55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org> -----

From: DAVID GUEI <dgue55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org>
To: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
Reply-To: dguei55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org
Subject: URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL ASSISTANCE.
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:51:24 +0100


FROM DAVID GUEI
EMAIL:dguei55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org
TEL: 0031-630-830-143
                          
                                            URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL ASSISTANCE.

My name is David the Son of late General Robert Guei, the Ex-Military head of State of Ivory Coast, who was murdered along with the Interior Minister on the 19th of September 2002 (You can visit http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2269238.stm for complete report on thisincident).

I contacted you because of my need to deal with persons whom my family and I have had no previous personal relationships. Since the murder of my father, I have been subjected to all sorts of harassment and intimidation with lots of negative reports emanating from the Government and the press about my family.

The present Government has also ensured that our bank accounts are frozen and all assets seized. It is in view of this that I seek your co-operation and assistance in the transfer of the sum of Twenty Seven Million United States Dollars (US$27,000,000.00) being the very last of my family fund in my possession and control, after the murder of my father the Federal
Government seized all our properties and our accounts both local and international was frozen.

My only hope now is this cash that my father carefully packaged and deposited as artifacts with a Security/Finance Company in the Netherlands.The said sum can easily be with drawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary.

The security company based on my instructions will release the fund to you and you will be
presented as my partner who will be fronting for me in area of viable and profitable business.

To show my preparedness and appreciation to carry-out this business with you, 25% of the total sum will be your share and 20% commission of the proceeds realized from the investment of this fund will also be yours, also 5% is to be set aside for any eventual cost that might arise as  the transaction proceeds. I need your full support and co-operation for the success of this transaction.

I plead with you to treat this issue confidential and urgent because it is delicate and it demands a great degree of secrecy. I am presently in the Netherlands seeking Asylum. I would want you to reach me through my telephone number or email address above if you are interested to assist me.

I sincerely will appreciate your response.

I wait to hear from you.

Regards,
David Guei.  

 

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Peter D. Hiscocks                         	   
Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering    
Ryerson University,                    
350 Victoria Street,
Toronto, Ontario, M5B 2K3, Canada

Phone:   (416) 979-5000 Ext 6109
Fax:     (416) 979-5280
Email:   phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
URL:     http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~phiscock
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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 02:20:41 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:20:41 -0500
Subject: The evolution of spam
In-Reply-To: <20031029210454.B26745-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029210454.B26745@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA07579.60001@rogers.com>

That's cause this is the Guei interface.

TomDLux

Peter Hiscocks wrote:

>Wow, this one is not in ALL CAPS, so I guess they finally found the Caps
>Lock key. Also, there is an embedded web page url! The Nigerian Scam gets
>its own web page!
>
>Now that's progress.
>
>Peter
>
>
>
>----- Forwarded message from DAVID GUEI <dgue55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org> -----
>
>From: DAVID GUEI <dgue55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org>
>To: phiscock-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w at public.gmane.org
>Reply-To: dguei55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org
>Subject: URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL ASSISTANCE.
>Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 01:51:24 +0100
>
>
>FROM DAVID GUEI
>EMAIL:dguei55-VsqqI1RANlHk1uMJSBkQmQ at public.gmane.org
>TEL: 0031-630-830-143
>                          
>                                            URGENT AND CONFIDENTIAL ASSISTANCE.
>
>My name is David the Son of late General Robert Guei, the Ex-Military head of State of Ivory Coast, who was murdered along with the Interior Minister on the 19th of September 2002 (You can visit http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2269238.stm for complete report on thisincident).
>
>I contacted you because of my need to deal with persons whom my family and I have had no previous personal relationships. Since the murder of my father, I have been subjected to all sorts of harassment and intimidation with lots of negative reports emanating from the Government and the press about my family.
>
>The present Government has also ensured that our bank accounts are frozen and all assets seized. It is in view of this that I seek your co-operation and assistance in the transfer of the sum of Twenty Seven Million United States Dollars (US$27,000,000.00) being the very last of my family fund in my possession and control, after the murder of my father the Federal
>Government seized all our properties and our accounts both local and international was frozen.
>
>My only hope now is this cash that my father carefully packaged and deposited as artifacts with a Security/Finance Company in the Netherlands.The said sum can easily be with drawn or paid to a recommended beneficiary.
>
>The security company based on my instructions will release the fund to you and you will be
>presented as my partner who will be fronting for me in area of viable and profitable business.
>
>To show my preparedness and appreciation to carry-out this business with you, 25% of the total sum will be your share and 20% commission of the proceeds realized from the investment of this fund will also be yours, also 5% is to be set aside for any eventual cost that might arise as  the transaction proceeds. I need your full support and co-operation for the success of this transaction.
>
>I plead with you to treat this issue confidential and urgent because it is delicate and it demands a great degree of secrecy. I am presently in the Netherlands seeking Asylum. I would want you to reach me through my telephone number or email address above if you are interested to assist me.
>
>I sincerely will appreciate your response.
>
>I wait to hear from you.
>
>Regards,
>David Guei.  
>
> 
>
>----- End forwarded message -----
>
>  
>

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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 03:31:21 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:31:21 -0500
Subject: Steve Ballmer Questions Open Source Code Security
In-Reply-To: <20031029195709.124d0965.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha> <20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031029195709.124d0965.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030033121.GA2266@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Wed, Oct 29, 2003 at 07:57:09PM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:14:27 -0500
> William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > Yes, and look at all those IT jobs that Microsoft created.
> 
> That's like saying "look how all that indiscriminate bombing helped the
> construction industry".

That is also a truth.  It creates demand, which companies rush to
supply.

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
--
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 03:43:29 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:43:29 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: Message from William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org> 
   of "Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:14:27 EST." <20031030001427.GA2077-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org> 
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha> <20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>  <20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com>

> Yes, and look at all those IT jobs that Microsoft created.

And actually that begs the question of where the purported savings are
in their recent advertising.

I just saw the ad where worshipful MCSEs ooh and aah over the "two
million dollars" being saved by adopting the latest version.

And it makes me wonder where's the money.  The possibilities are NOT
endless.

1.  Perhaps the new version requires fewer administrators.  In which
case the result is that the old saying gets changed...

   "If anyone ever markets a really well-documented Unix that doesn't
   require babysitting by a phalanx of provincial Unix clones, there'll
   be a lot of unemployable, twinky-braindamaged misfits out deservedly
   pounding the pavements."

      changes to 

   "If anyone ever markets a really well-documented Windows that doesn't
   require babysitting by a phalanx of provincial Windows clones,
   there'll be a lot of unemployable, twinky-braindamaged misfits out
   deservedly pounding the pavements."

Which would presumably mean that you would see NO admins feeling happy
about this; they would all be sitting worried about how to preserve
their jobs, and how to PREVENT the company from saving that two million
dollars.

2.  Perhaps the new version of Windows runs on cheaper hardware.

Of course, that would imply that the improvement has nothing to do with
Microsoft.

3.  Perhaps the Windows licenses will be millions of dollars less costly
than their predecessors.

And Microsoft remains profitable precisely how, in all of this?  Indeed,
would it not be cheaper to hold off on the upgrade for an extra year,
thereby saving even MORE than $2M?

I can't think of other ways that there would be millions of dollars in
savings, and the thing that I expect it really points to is #1.  If
Microsoft is actually being competent about this, the result would be a
huge phalanx of _unemployable_ MCSEs.  

Success in truly creating a "Zero Administration" version of Windows
would mean mass unemployment for the existing admins.  Which ought to be
scary to them...
--
output = reverse("moc.enworbbc" "@" "enworbbc")
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/
"Few people can be happy  unless they hate someother person, nation or
creed."  -- Bertrand Russell
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From jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 03:56:18 2003
From: jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA at public.gmane.org (JM)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:56:18 +0800
Subject: Update kernel via RPM..
Message-ID: <200310301156.18558.jerome@gmanmi.tv>

Hi,

Ive read the man pages for rpm and there's no way that I can upgrade my kernel 
without removing the old files... are there ways on how to do this?

or do i have to manually backup files in /boot then do an rpm upgrade of the 
kernel..


TIA
jm
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 09:50:20 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 04:50:20 -0500
Subject: Steve Ballmer Questions Open Source Code Security
In-Reply-To: <20031030033121.GA2266-qFXCSEZiv8lIJHMOrJ9DSGq87BGP6SvQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
	<20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031029195709.124d0965.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030033121.GA2266@node1.opengeometry.net>
Message-ID: <20031030045020.0e54a456.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:31:21 -0500
William Park <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> That is also a truth.  It creates demand, which companies rush to
> supply.

You disgust me.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A priest advised Voltaire on his death bed to renounce the devil. 
Replied Voltaire, "This is no time to make new enemies."
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 10:11:40 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:11:40 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031030034330.4D87240CF-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
	<20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <20031030051140.61f29a24.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:43:29 -0500
cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org uttered:

> 
> I can't think of other ways that there would be millions of dollars in
> savings, and the thing that I expect it really points to is #1.  If
> Microsoft is actually being competent about this, the result would be
> a huge phalanx of _unemployable_ MCSEs.  
> 
> Success in truly creating a "Zero Administration" version of Windows
> would mean mass unemployment for the existing admins.  Which ought to
> be scary to them...

I guess the point is, do we want the IT industry to consist of people
filling sand bags against the latest and greatest MS blunder, or do we
want an IT industry creating jobs by developing new ways for people to
be more productive, creative, etc.?

Software developers and admins seem to spend too much time trying to
react to the latest threat, rather than building more useful software
and systems.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The savior becomes the victim.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 10:59:42 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 05:59:42 -0500
Subject: "As for the GPL, it's total war."
Message-ID: <20031030055942.0ae0f1d3.joehill@sympatico.ca>

I can honestly say, I knew as soon as I heard about the SCO lawsuit that
it was about an attack on Linux and OSS in general, not that I was alone
in that by any means.

Now SCO has submitted it's arguments in detail, and it's quite plain
that they are going for the whole munchie.

....and, honestly, whom do you think is pulling the strings on this one?

http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20031027193958740

Some quotes for the lazy:

"The most significant thing they say is that the GPL isn't enforceable
or applicable, and in paragraph 16 that Linux is an unauthorized
"version" of UNIX:

"Denies the allegations of paragraph 16 and alleges that Linux is, in
actuality, an unauthorized version of UNIX that is structured, assembled
and designed to be technologically indistinguishable from UNIX, and
practically is distinguishable only in that Linux is a 'free' version of
UNIX designed to destroy proprietary operating system software."

And, I guess we're all commies for using OSS, cuz:

"The GPL violates the U.S. Constitution, together with copyright,
antitrust and export control laws, and IBM's claims based thereon, or
related thereto, are barred."

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
"You can't survive by sucking the juice from a wet mitten."
		-- Charles Schulz, "Things I've Had to Learn Over and
		   Over and Over"
--
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From lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 13:21:33 2003
From: lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org (Byron Desnoyers Winmill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:21:33 -0500
Subject: "As for the GPL, it's total war."
In-Reply-To: <20031030055942.0ae0f1d3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030055942.0ae0f1d3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030132133.GB27628@pluto.bsdwebhosting.net>

On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 05:59:42AM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
> Now SCO has submitted it's arguments in detail, and it's quite plain
> that they are going for the whole munchie.

It doesn't matter if the GPL stands or falls in court: (a) this is an
American court, and they do not control the legal system of other
countries (eg. Canadian and American copyright law appear to be quite
different); (b) the failure of the GPL would probably bring most license
agreements into question, and finally end this nonsense of publishers
dictating how we use our computers; (c) if all else fails, the copyrights
would have to revert to the authors -- so they would not loose anything.

> ....and, honestly, whom do you think is pulling the strings on this one?

There are companies which have a lot more to loose (than the usual
suspect) if there are not tight controls on how IP is managed.  *If*
somebody else is pulling the strings, this may have nothing to do with
software.

Byron.
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From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 13:42:20 2003
From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:42:20 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
Message-ID: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>

http://www.nvu.com/

Wow. Something good coming from lindows. I guess some of that money they 
are getting is being put to good use.


-snip-

Finally!  A complete Web Authoring System for Linux Desktop users to 
rival programs like FrontPage and Dreamweaver.

Nvu (pronounced N-view, for a "new view") makes managing a web site a 
snap.  Now anyone can create web pages and manage a website with no 
technical expertise or knowledge of HTML.
.
  Nvu Features

     * WYSIWYG editing of pages, making web creation as easy as typing a 
letter with your word processor.
       .
     * Integrated file management via FTP.  Simply login to your web 
site and navigate through your files, editing web pages on the fly, 
directly from your site.
       .
     * Reliable HTML code creation that will work with all of today's 
most popular browsers.
       .
     * Jump between WYSIWYG Editing Mode and HTML using tabs.
       .
     * Tabbed editing to make working on multiple pages a snap.
       .
     * Powerful support for frames, forms, tables, and templates.
       .
     * The easiest-to-use, most powerful Web Authoring System available 
for Desktop Linux users.
       .

  Open Source
Nvu is 100% open source.  This means anyone is welcome to download Nvu 
at no charge, including the source code if you need to make special changes.

-snip-


-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
(o_
//\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
V_/_                     Jason Shein
       		Linux Registered User #281100
		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 14:18:07 2003
From: Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:18:07 -0500
Subject: Novell's commitment to Linux
Message-ID: <sfa0d77c.002@netservice.tenet.com>

After Novell acquired Ximian, there was a brief discussion regarding
Novell on the list.  For Linux professionals interested in learning
about the Novell offering, the software company published a document
describing the services that are being ported to Linux. 

http://www.novell.com/training/linux/linux_linux_book.pdf 

Alain
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 14:18:33 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:18:33 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <3FA1153C.4080300-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
Message-ID: <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 08:42, Jason Shein wrote:
> Wow. Something good coming from lindows. I guess some of that money they 
> are getting is being put to good use.

Yes and no.

Yes, it's cool to see them trying to give a little back.
No, it's not cool that they are spreading propaganda and singing their
own praises for 'the open-source dreamweaver', which doesn't even have a
developers site yet, which is built on top of Mozilla, and which I don't
think will be HALF as good as dreamweaver.  It's the method to their
madness that bothers me.

That said, I've very excited to try it.  I've been waiting a long time
for linux web-development for dummies like me.  Bluefish is only fun for
so long...

Austin

-- 
                                 Austin Acton
        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 14:36:43 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:36:43 -0500
Subject: "As for the GPL, it's total war."
In-Reply-To: <20031030132133.GB27628-Ko7VQgJ6otXK2ngFqW3eKNllqMFDOoLF@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030055942.0ae0f1d3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030132133.GB27628@pluto.bsdwebhosting.net>
Message-ID: <20031030093643.7a51cd4b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 08:21:33 -0500
Byron Desnoyers Winmill <lists-Gb8Tj4xcA4YgsBAKwltoeQ at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> It doesn't matter if the GPL stands or falls in court: (a) this is an
> American court, and they do not control the legal system of other
> countries (eg. Canadian and American copyright law appear to be quite
> different);

The European bureacracies are already engaged in a similar fight against
OSS with Software Patents, and I don't hold any illusions that our PM
would resist at all an American attempt to force a modification of our
laws. They already did it with "Free Trade", and managed to pressure our
supposedly independant government into enacting the most assinine
cannabis law in existence with the exception of that in the U.S.

> (b) the failure of the GPL would probably bring most license
> agreements into question, and finally end this nonsense of publishers
> dictating how we use our computers;

I cannot follow your logic here. How would the failure of the GPL *help*
in defeating things like the TCI and DRM? The GPL is the only currently
viable model for protecting us from those greedy pigs, at least that I
am aware of.

> (c) if all else fails,  the copyrights would have to revert to the
> authors -- so they would not loose anything.

Current ones, maybe. I'm more concerned about the future.

> > ....and, honestly, whom do you think is pulling the strings on this
> > one?
> 
> There are companies which have a lot more to loose (than the usual
> suspect) if there are not tight controls on how IP is managed.  *If*
> somebody else is pulling the strings, this may have nothing to do with
> software.

This has everything to do with software; MS, through it's proxy SCO, is
attempting to do away with the concept of free and open software itself.
And you are right in one sense, making IP a government controlled
bureaucracy is in the best interests of any proprietary software vendor.
Makes it more difficult for independant and OSS developers to compete
in a free and open market.

IANAC, so I can't contribute much to that side of things, but I
certainly take every opportunity to expose people to the dangers we are
facing in this regard, positing Linux and OSS as viable alternatives;
and I make sure I participate in any and all campaigns to raise this
issue with our elected officials, just in case anyone is going to throw
that"so what are you doing about it?" at me...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can always pick up your needle and move to another groove.
		-- Tim Leary
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 14:40:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:40:09 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <1067523511.2445.10.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RN+FfftCXEu2Q@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
	<1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:18:33 -0500
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> That said, I've very excited to try it.  I've been waiting a long time
> for linux web-development for dummies like me.  Bluefish is only fun
> for so long...

Have you tried Amaya? Personally, my page is so simple I just use a text
editor, but I was somewhat impressed with Amaya for the few minutes I
used it ;-)

http://www.w3.org/Amaya/

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Faith is under the left nipple.
		-- Martin Luther
--
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From sbarbour-uX10M8IjeSmR85p3v6+8aQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 14:43:06 2003
From: sbarbour-uX10M8IjeSmR85p3v6+8aQ at public.gmane.org (Steve Barbour)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:43:06 -0500
Subject: FW: PayPal official notice
Message-ID: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEMELICDAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>

Here's another spam scam. If you click on the link it actually looks quite
authentic and will probably scam people out of their hard earned dollars if
they actually respond. People who do things like this should be shut down
permanently!

-----Original Message-----
From: PayPal [mailto:usersupport4-b7mz0PDhOr/QT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org]On Behalf Of PayPal
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:59 AM
To: Sbarbour
Subject: PayPal official notice




would you like to pay in 1898 mga Cheers in 1960 3 million in race case in
2005 pqVThyN jxJQTzRQhWC Kg

in 1957 I am a In fact 724 in 1881 0 Texas Saturday 343 in 1982 date of
birth

of WEATHER in 1833 What's the difference? Miss Good luck! Mau I ask MUj city
name Or How much is that? How's life? would you like to pay in 1972 I'll
call back!

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 14:46:29 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:46:29 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
	<1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030094629.6f5084a8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:40:09 -0500
JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Have you tried Amaya? Personally, my page is so simple I just use a
> text editor, but I was somewhat impressed with Amaya for the few
> minutes I used it ;-)
> 
> http://www.w3.org/Amaya/

oops, I don't think that comes under the heading of WYSIWYG!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Immortality -- a fate worse than death.
		-- Edgar A. Shoaff
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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 02:23:10 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:23:10 -0500
Subject: how to log out without panel
Message-ID: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A@onlink.net>

A while back I posted for help with my missing gnome panel. I was
offered a little direction but nothing helped. I can't find anything on
google either. I even tried removing files from another /home/account
one-by-one -to see which file affects the panel - none did - that leaves
me wondering if the panel is not even stored in /home/account - whch is
wierd because all the new accounts I create have panels - so, where are
these account-specific panels stored?

I am still using that account as I've done a bit of work on it - I lost
netcape settings and mail for a while and then was able to restore them
from a tar.gz backup I had created. So, I want to keep working with/-
and earning from - this acount.

But does anyone know how I can log out of this accoutntso my daughter
can log into her account? I managed to create an xterm icon (from the
nautilus Start Here icon) and I do all my work from there, launching
applications, doing backups, etc. It's good for me. But I don't know how
to log out of the GUI.  Logging out of my daughter's account and into
mine is no problem, but the other way around I don't know how. I tried
Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to command line,  logout, su - daughter,  startx -
that was my best guess but of course it didn't work and it reported X is
already up.

Chris



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From sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 14:54:12 2003
From: sidney-3Kd7Tu4o6f/sBN0MCq728g at public.gmane.org (Sidney Shapiro)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:54:12 -0500
Subject: FW: PayPal official notice
In-Reply-To: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEMELICDAA.sbarbour-uX10M8IjeSmR85p3v6+8aQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEMELICDAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>
Message-ID: <004d01c39ef5$b242bc40$6401a8c0@main>



-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org [mailto:owner-tlug at ss.org] On Behalf Of Steve
>Barbour
>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:43 AM
>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>Subject: [TLUG]: FW: PayPal official notice
>
>Here's another spam scam. If you click on the link it actually looks
quite >authentic and will probably scam people out of their hard earned
dollars if >they actually respond. People who do things like this should
be shut down >permanently!
?
Now if that?s not a call for a vigilante cyber justice squad, I don?t
know what is. :)

Sid

01001000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101110
01101001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100001 01111001 



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From aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 02:27:53 2003
From: aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Chris Aitken)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:27:53 -0500
Subject: graphics app CD covers novice
Message-ID: <3FA07729.2E2B4CD8@onlink.net>

I need a graphics application for someone who has never used one before.
I will be creating CD covers with artwork and photographs.

Please don't steer me to your favourite application that you are hoping
will spread like wildfire. I love using linux and want to keep on loving
it.  ; )

If it comes out-of-the-box with redhat 7.3/8.0 so much the better. Even
something in S.u.S.E. 8.0 would be OK as it's about time I made the
switch anyway as I would like to move to Europe and it might be better
to know that distribution.

Chris

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:00:19 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:00:19 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>	<1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>

JoeHill wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:18:33 -0500
> Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> 
>>That said, I've very excited to try it.  I've been waiting a long time
>>for linux web-development for dummies like me.  Bluefish is only fun
>>for so long...
> 
> 
> Have you tried Amaya? Personally, my page is so simple I just use a text
> editor, but I was somewhat impressed with Amaya for the few minutes I
> used it ;-)
> 
> http://www.w3.org/Amaya/
> 

Amaya has been discontined unfortunately, and it never was very good IMO.

There is Quanta Plus, pretty good, although not free. Hopefully, the Mozilla 
HTML editor that is now being developed as a standalone app (showing some 
promise), will be *the* Linux web editor.

Not directed at you Joe:

Minor nit: There is no such thing as a WYSIWYG web editor. With all the 
different rendering engines, that is an impossibility. The proper term is 
'visual editor'.

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:05:47 2003
From: JimS-pFJmkVL1u50 at public.gmane.org (Jim Skehill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:05:47 -0500
Subject: graphics app CD covers novice
Message-ID: <33678E78A2DD4D418396703A750048D4460B91@RIKER>

GIMP (GNU Image Manipulation Program) has featured that rival Photoshop. 

Unfortunately it's not easy to use. While you would expect this with any
powerful piece of software sometimes I find GIMP perversely unintuitive. 

Fortunately there are a lot of tutorials on line and even books made from
dead trees (my favourite is GIMP: The Official Handbook by Kylander &
Kylander published by Coriolis).

If your interested check out www.gimp.org.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Aitken [mailto:aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org]
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2003 9:28 PM
To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
Subject: [TLUG]: graphics app CD covers novice


I need a graphics application for someone who has never used one before.
I will be creating CD covers with artwork and photographs.

Please don't steer me to your favourite application that you are hoping
will spread like wildfire. I love using linux and want to keep on loving
it.  ; )

If it comes out-of-the-box with redhat 7.3/8.0 so much the better. Even
something in S.u.S.E. 8.0 would be OK as it's about time I made the
switch anyway as I would like to move to Europe and it might be better
to know that distribution.

Chris

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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:03:56 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:03:56 -0500
Subject: how to log out without panel
In-Reply-To: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031030100356.08617ec5.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:23:10 -0500
Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> But does anyone know how I can log out of this accoutntso my daughter
> can log into her account? I managed to create an xterm icon (from the
> nautilus Start Here icon) and I do all my work from there, launching
> applications, doing backups, etc. It's good for me. But I don't know
> how to log out of the GUI.  Logging out of my daughter's account and
> into mine is no problem, but the other way around I don't know how. I
> tried Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to command line,  logout, su - daughter, 
> startx - that was my best guess but of course it didn't work and it
> reported X is already up.

You could go Ctrl+Alt+F2 to get a different TTY, log in, and then start
X like so (as you say, one X server is already running, so you have to
start a different X session):

startx -- :1

This will start whatever the default desktop is for that user or
according to the systemwide config in /etc/X11/Xsession.

You can specify what desktop the individual user gets by creating a file
in their home dir called .xinitrc and making it executable.

In there, if you want Gnome, just put "exec gnome-session".

The thing is, you don't even have to log out of your current session to
let your daughter use another. The only complications would come with
sound, AFAIK, since if you are using the sound server, she will not be
able to. Ain't X cool?

The missing panel, I have no idea. From your xterm, run
"gnome-control-center" and see if you can't get the panel back that way.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
With listening comes wisdom, with speaking repentance.
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:08:28 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:08:28 -0500
Subject: graphics app CD covers novice
In-Reply-To: <3FA07729.2E2B4CD8-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA07729.2E2B4CD8@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031030100828.6defb178.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:27:53 -0500
Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I need a graphics application for someone who has never used one
> before. I will be creating CD covers with artwork and photographs.
> 
> Please don't steer me to your favourite application that you are
> hoping will spread like wildfire. I love using linux and want to keep
> on loving it.  ; )
> 
> If it comes out-of-the-box with redhat 7.3/8.0 so much the better.
> Even something in S.u.S.E. 8.0 would be OK as it's about time I made
> the switch anyway as I would like to move to Europe and it might be
> better to know that distribution.

Well, if you are at all familiar with Photoshop or it's like, just try
Gimp. It's fairly intuitive (it must be, I have no artistic ability at
all and I've managed to not go stark-raving-mad using it...). Simple
actions like colour manipulation, scaling, layers, are all menu-driven,
just right-click on the image you are editing. Other cool effects like
the ubiquitous drop-shadows, etc. are included under "script-fu", IIRC.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There are no accidents whatsoever in the universe.
		-- Baba Ram Dass
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:12:09 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:12:09 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <3FA12783.6060401-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
	<1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030101209.6dd902c5.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:00:19 -0500
Stephen Allen <kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Minor nit: There is no such thing as a WYSIWYG web editor. With all
> the different rendering engines, that is an impossibility. The proper
> term is 'visual editor'.

Hmmm, good point. I shudder every time I look at my site in Dillo ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or
whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man.
		-- Chuang-tzu
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From forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:27:01 2003
From: forolinux-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Martin C)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 07:27:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <3FA12783.6060401-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030152701.68922.qmail@web14510.mail.yahoo.com>

> Minor nit: There is no such thing as a WYSIWYG web
> editor. With all the 
> different rendering engines, that is an
> impossibility. The proper term is 
> 'visual editor'.


Maybe is time to invent something like WYSIWYMG (what
you see is what you might get) o WYSIWUGIYAL (what you
see is what you get if you are lucky) :D

I use Mozilla composer, and I wonder why it doesn't
have a site map like dreamweaver... That's all I'd
need...


__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:30:25 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:30:25 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <3FA12783.6060401-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>; from kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org on Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 10:00:19 -0500
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/30/2003 10:00:19 AM, Stephen Allen wrote:
> There is Quanta Plus, pretty good, although not free. Hopefully, the  
> Mozilla HTML editor that is now being developed as a standalone app  
> (showing some promise), will be *the* Linux web editor.

Well what I usually do is design the layout in Mozilla Composer, save  
it as a sort of quasi-template, then go make my pages one at a time in  
bluefish.  This has been the fastest way for me.

While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done  
once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)
2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be dymanic  
of course)

I assume one could do #1 very easily, but #2 must require a perl script  
or something?

Thanks,
Austin
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:02:11 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:02:11 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Upgrading RH7.2 to RH9 questions
In-Reply-To: <3FA05847.6000102-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA05847.6000102@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <62262.199.64.0.252.1067526131.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

Jim Ruxton said:
> I'm going to upgrade a dual boot XP , RH7.2 laptop to dual boot XP, RH9
>  . I have some questions that I was hoping someone could help me with.
> I think I'm just going to install RH9 rather than update RH7.2 so I can
>  start over. RH7.2 was my first Linux system and I've learned a lot. My
>  file systems are a bit messed up so I think I'd rather start from
> scratch . I want the new install to be as painless as possible so I
> figure there are some things I should save like the files beneath  ~/
> .
>  Are there other files I should save to make my life easy when I
> upgrade ?  I figure my old XF86Config-4 would be a good thing to have
> handy. Yes I have backups but I want the files I really need to be
> easily accessible.
> I  also want to save all my email and bookmarks. I'm currently using
> Mozilla 1.0 . Is there an easy way to do this?

I've found burning the ~/ folder to CD is the best way to go.  It makes
thing really easy to access, it's quick, and it should catch all of your
user data.  Better yet, burn everything under /home/ , if it'll fit.
> When I start the install will the RH9 CD's recognize that I have a dual
>  boot system and leave my XP partition alone.?

While I haven't installed RH9, Mandrake did a good job of setting up Lilo
to dual boot.
> Will the install automatically delete my old system (Rh7.2 files) or do
>  I have to do that manually?

What partitions do you have?  I'd suggest formatting - after you've backed
everything up of course.  It makes sure the FS is completely clean.
> I'm a bit nervous to start all over from scratch. It was a bitch
> getting  everything working in the first place but then I knew nothing
> about  Linux at that point. Thanks for any hints on the best way to
> proceed. Jim

You are absolutely correct.  I've rarely re-installed an OS and had it be
a short process.  The good news is that in the end you'll have a better
(and hopefully more productive) setup.  Just be prepared to have that
machine down for a while and invest a fair amount of time.
Good luck!

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to
  make money do more for the betterment of life.
    -- Henry Ford (1863 - 1947)
 ********************************************************************/



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From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:53:50 2003
From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:53:50 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
Message-ID: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>

If you're using Linux... You should have PHP installed alongside Apache.  Really easy to do includes with PHP.
> 
> From: Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/30 Thu AM 10:30:25 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
> 
> On 10/30/2003 10:00:19 AM, Stephen Allen wrote:
> > There is Quanta Plus, pretty good, although not free. Hopefully, the  
> > Mozilla HTML editor that is now being developed as a standalone app  
> > (showing some promise), will be *the* Linux web editor.
> 
> Well what I usually do is design the layout in Mozilla Composer, save  
> it as a sort of quasi-template, then go make my pages one at a time in  
> bluefish.  This has been the fastest way for me.
> 
> While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
> 1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done  
> once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)
> 2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be dymanic  
> of course)
> 
> I assume one could do #1 very easily, but #2 must require a perl script  
> or something?
> 
> Thanks,
> Austin
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 15:10:21 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:10:21 -0500 (EST)
Subject: The evolution of spam
In-Reply-To: <20031029210454.B26745-g851W1bGYuGnS0EtXVNi6w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031029210454.B26745@ee.ryerson.ca>
Message-ID: <42638.199.64.0.252.1067526621.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

Actually, we've been getting this kind of spam over fax.  Complete with
signature and several numbers to fax our reply.
Kareem

Peter Hiscocks said:
>
> Wow, this one is not in ALL CAPS, so I guess they finally found the
> Caps Lock key. Also, there is an embedded web page url! The Nigerian
> Scam gets its own web page!
>
> Now that's progress.
>
> Peter

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to
  make money do more for the betterment of life.
    -- Henry Ford (1863 - 1947)
 ********************************************************************/



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:07:44 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:07:44 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031030110744.16a6094a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:53:50 -0500
Matthew Godycki <mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Really easy to do includes with PHP.

So easy even I can do it. That's how I get the uptime display at the
bottom of the main page.

It's as simple as this:

<?php include "uptime.txt"; ?>

with a cron job that writes to the text file.

PHP is definitely the easiest way to go for dynamic content.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The state of innocence contains the germs of all future sin.
		-- Alexandre Arnoux, "Etudes et caprices"
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:15:25 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:15:25 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030153025.GC3166-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca> <20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <200310301115.25451.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 30 October 2003 10:30, Austin wrote:

> While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
> 1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done  
> once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)

If you generate the pages offline there are a million ways to do that.  If you 
want the page included at each request then server-side includes are probably 
the easiest way, you do something like this:

    <!--#include file="/templates/header.html"-->

Take a look at http://www.apacheweek.com/features/ssi for the basics of SSI.

> 2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be dymanic  
> of course)

Like you noted this would require a decent scripting language to implement 
(perl, python, etc.).  It will be possible in PHP5, I think it would be 
difficult in PHP4.  Whether it's a good idea is another question ;-)

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:18:58 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:18:58 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <3FA139F2.1020602@rogers.com>

If the bulk of the pages with local "include"s do not involve other 
processing,
activate Server-Side-Includes. The processing load is significantly 
smaller than
with dynamic-html processors such as PHP, embed-Perl,  etc., though the 
power
is limited.


Matthew Godycki wrote:

>If you're using Linux... You should have PHP installed alongside Apache.  Really easy to do includes with PHP.
>  
>
>>From: Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org>
>>Date: 2003/10/30 Thu AM 10:30:25 EST
>>To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
>>Subject: Re: [TLUG]: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
>>
>>On 10/30/2003 10:00:19 AM, Stephen Allen wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>There is Quanta Plus, pretty good, although not free. Hopefully, the  
>>>Mozilla HTML editor that is now being developed as a standalone app  
>>>(showing some promise), will be *the* Linux web editor.
>>>      
>>>
>>Well what I usually do is design the layout in Mozilla Composer, save  
>>it as a sort of quasi-template, then go make my pages one at a time in  
>>bluefish.  This has been the fastest way for me.
>>
>>While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
>>1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done  
>>once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)
>>2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be dymanic  
>>of course)
>>
>>I assume one could do #1 very easily, but #2 must require a perl script  
>>or something?
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Austin
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
>>    
>>
>
>--
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>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>
>  
>

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From Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:23:49 2003
From: Alain-ZUEtzF2Y1zYAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Alain Rochon)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:23:49 -0500
Subject: how to log out without panel
Message-ID: <sfa0f4df.054@netservice.tenet.com>

Try this link:
http://www.praveen-linux.8m.com/art/multiple-x-servers.htm

>>> joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org 30/10/2003 10:03:56 am >>>
On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:23:10 -0500
Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> But does anyone know how I can log out of this accoutntso my
daughter
> can log into her account? I managed to create an xterm icon (from
the
> nautilus Start Here icon) and I do all my work from there, launching
> applications, doing backups, etc. It's good for me. But I don't know
> how to log out of the GUI.  Logging out of my daughter's account and
> into mine is no problem, but the other way around I don't know how.
I
> tried Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to command line,  logout, su - daughter, 
> startx - that was my best guess but of course it didn't work and it
> reported X is already up.

You could go Ctrl+Alt+F2 to get a different TTY, log in, and then
start
X like so (as you say, one X server is already running, so you have to
start a different X session):

startx -- :1

This will start whatever the default desktop is for that user or
according to the systemwide config in /etc/X11/Xsession.

You can specify what desktop the individual user gets by creating a
file
in their home dir called .xinitrc and making it executable.

In there, if you want Gnome, just put "exec gnome-session".

The thing is, you don't even have to log out of your current session
to
let your daughter use another. The only complications would come with
sound, AFAIK, since if you are using the sound server, she will not be
able to. Ain't X cool?

The missing panel, I have no idea. From your xterm, run
"gnome-control-center" and see if you can't get the panel back that
way.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org 
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
With listening comes wisdom, with speaking repentance.
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:22:50 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:22:50 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030110744.16a6094a.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>; from joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org on Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 11:07:44 -0500
References: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost> <20031030110744.16a6094a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030162250.GA4295@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/30/2003 11:07:44 AM, JoeHill wrote:
> It's as simple as this:
> 
> <?php include "uptime.txt"; ?>

That's very cool, thanks.
Would it work for an off-site file though?

<?php include "http://whatever.com/file.html"; ?>

Austin
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:33:16 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:33:16 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030162250.GA4295-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
	<20031030110744.16a6094a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030162250.GA4295@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030113316.4645140c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:22:50 -0500
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> That's very cool, thanks. Would it work for an off-site file though?

I would assume so, as long as the URL is valid. Never tested that
myself...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is said that the lonely eagle flies to the mountain peaks while the
lowly
ant crawls the ground, but cannot the soul of the ant soar as high as
the eagle?
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:38:42 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:38:42 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030162250.GA4295-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
	<20031030110744.16a6094a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030162250.GA4295@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030113842.3fc77ba8.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:22:50 -0500
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> That's very cool, thanks.
> Would it work for an off-site file though?
> 
> <?php include "http://whatever.com/file.html"; ?>

hmmm, just tested it with an image file, didn't work too well, check it
out, LOL!

I'll try an html page and see what happens...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle if it is
lightly greased.
		-- Kehlog Albran, "The Profit"
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:40:54 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:40:54 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030162250.GA4295-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030155350.CHYU489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
	<20031030110744.16a6094a.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030162250.GA4295@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030114054.57adbc8f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:22:50 -0500
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> That's very cool, thanks.
> Would it work for an off-site file though?
> 
> <?php include "http://whatever.com/file.html"; ?>

ooooh, ya, it works, ROTFLMAO!
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Wisdom is rarely found on the best-seller list.
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:45:01 2003
From: mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Matthew Godycki)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:45:01 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
Message-ID: <20031030164501.CUXY489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>

> 
> From: JoeHill <joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org>
> Date: 2003/10/30 Thu AM 11:40:54 EST
> To: tlug-lxSQFCZeNF4 at public.gmane.org
> Subject: Re: [TLUG]: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
> 
> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:22:50 -0500
> Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > That's very cool, thanks.
> > Would it work for an off-site file though?
> > 
> > <?php include "http://whatever.com/file.html"; ?>
> 
> ooooh, ya, it works, ROTFLMAO!

Though, I imagine there are many copyright-like issues surrounding something like that.  Not only does that entail presenting someone else's content (Do we have the author's permission?) you're also that way sucking down their bandwidth by presenting pages on your site =)

-Matt


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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:44:32 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:44:32 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <200310301115.25451.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
	<3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>
	<20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
	<200310301115.25451.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031030114432.07ff30a7.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:15:25 -0500
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Whether it's a good idea is another question ;-)

Yeah, since with PHP the processing is done on the server, there are
security issues involved. Would this be one of those openings for a
"cross-site-scripting" attack,  or is that only with forms?

Bloody amateurs...(me, I mean)
-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.
		-- Oscar Wilde, "The Portrait of Mr. W.H."
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:47:26 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:47:26 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030164501.CUXY489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030164501.CUXY489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031030114726.36d68a70.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:45:01 -0500
Matthew Godycki <mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Though, I imagine there are many copyright-like issues surrounding
> something like that.  Not only does that entail presenting someone
> else's content (Do we have the author's permission?) you're also that
> way sucking down their bandwidth by presenting pages on your site =)

Oh, don't worry, I don't plan on making that permanent! This has been a
test, only a test... ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I hope you're not pretending to be evil while secretly being good.
That would be dishonest.
--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:48:47 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:48:47 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030164501.CUXY489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030164501.CUXY489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031030114847.3c2e302a.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:45:01 -0500
Matthew Godycki <mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> sucking down their bandwidth by presenting pages on your site =)

just occurred to me, if anyone can complain about sucking bandwidth, it
ain't Slashdot!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The questions remain the same.  The answers are eternally variable.
--
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From clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:51:45 2003
From: clifford_ilkay-biY6FKoJMRdBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (CLIFFORD ILKAY)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:51:45 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030153025.GC3166-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>
 <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
 <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
 <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca> <20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20031030114526.02dbb008@localhost>

At 10:30 30/10/2003 -0500, Austin wrote:
>On 10/30/2003 10:00:19 AM, Stephen Allen wrote:
>>There is Quanta Plus, pretty good, although not free. Hopefully, the
>>Mozilla HTML editor that is now being developed as a standalone app
>>(showing some promise), will be *the* Linux web editor.
>
>Well what I usually do is design the layout in Mozilla Composer, save
>it as a sort of quasi-template, then go make my pages one at a time in
>bluefish.  This has been the fastest way for me.
>
>While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
>1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done
>once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)
>2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be dymanic
>of course)
>
>I assume one could do #1 very easily, but #2 must require a perl script
>or something?

Hi Austin,

Take a look at "Local File System" at <http://www.zope.org/Members/jfarr>. 
It is well documented in "Zope - Web Application Development and Content 
Management" by Spicklemire et al from New Riders Press.

Regards,

Clifford Ilkay
Dinamis Corporation
3266 Yonge Street, Suite 1419
Toronto, Ontario
Canada M4N 3P6

Tel: 416-410-3326 

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From mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:39:14 2003
From: mwilson-4YeSL8/OYKRWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Mel Wilson)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:39:14 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations... IT job losses?
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
 <20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>
 <20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com>
Message-ID: <y6To/ks/KfUI089yn@the-wire.com>

In article <20031030034330.4D87240CF-xzRQuAxiFLNWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org>, cbbrowne at acm.org wrote:
>3.  Perhaps the Windows licenses will be millions of dollars less costly
>than their predecessors.
>
>And Microsoft remains profitable precisely how, in all of this?

   Switching to genetically modified crops.

   And ancillary equipment.  The underground harverster for
the new corn that's resistant to damage by hail -- that will
be a big seller.  There's no other good way to get at that
corn.

   They've got the business model, and cash to invest.

        Regards.        Mel.
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:56:27 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:56:27 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030164501.CUXY489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com-bi+AKbBUZKZeoWH0uzbU5w@public.gmane.org>; from mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org on Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 11:45:01 -0500
References: <20031030164501.CUXY489038.fep01-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com@localhost>
Message-ID: <20031030165627.GC4295@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/30/2003 11:45:01 AM, Matthew Godycki wrote:
> Though, I imagine there are many copyright-like issues surrounding
> something like that.  Not only does that entail presenting someone
> else's content (Do we have the author's permission?) you're also that
> way sucking down their bandwidth by presenting pages on your site =)

That's not a problem... I want to include pages from our intranet,  
since I am the only person with read/write access to the web server and  
I don't want to do ALL the work myself, esp. for frequently updated  
pages.

http://www.chem.yorku.ca

Austin
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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 16:22:30 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 11:22:30 -0500
Subject: Mail delivery problem on my server
Message-ID: <3FA13AC6.9020601@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I have a very odd, and very worrisome problem on my mail server. Now 
please let me preface that I am a hardware geek more than a softweare 
geek, specially when it comes to Sendmail. Also, the server is up and 
running so switching to Postfix isn't really a viable option (though I 
will for the next server).

   Anyway, here is my problem... When some people send me (mkelly at 
alteeve dot com) a message they get through while others get an error 
like this: (not this person is an Outlook user)

  -= Error Message =-
Your message did not reach some or all of the intended recipients.

       Subject:

       Sent:     30/10/2003 12:11 PM

The following recipient(s) could not be reached:

       Matthew Kelly on 30/10/2003 12:11 PM

             The message reached the recipient's e-mail system, but 
delivery was refused.  Attempt to resend the message.  If it still 
fails, contact your system administrator.

             <cgexchange.consolidatedgroup.ca #5.2.1>
  -= End Error =-

   Now what is particularly wierd is that when they send it to another 
account of mine on my server (linux at alteeve dot com) the message gets 
through just fine. From the server side (Rh7.3 with the default Sendmail 
plus updates from 'up2date') I have tried first dumping my 
'/var/spool/mail/mkelly' file, no good. Next I even deleted my account 
(via '# userdel mkelly') and then recreated my account, nope.

   The only other thing I have noticed is that, for some reason, some of 
the mail account spool files on the server have the group "mail" set 
where most of the others have both owner AND group set to their 
name/group. Finally, a couple other accounts had been changed to 
permission -rw------- (0600) where most again where -rw-rw---- (0660). I 
tried changing my own 'mkelly' file to owner/group mkelly and setting 
the permissions back to 0660 but the message still bounced.

   Does anyone have -any- idea what could be going on?? This bothers me, 
obviously, because mkelly is my main account and I know I am loosing 
messages. BTW, I have also verified loosing messages from other people 
not using Exchange server...

   Many thanks!!

Madison

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 17:27:01 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:27:01 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030114432.07ff30a7.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <200310301115.25451.fraser@wehave.net> <20031030114432.07ff30a7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310301227.01240.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 30 October 2003 11:44, JoeHill wrote:

> Yeah, since with PHP the processing is done on the server, there are
> security issues involved. Would this be one of those openings for a
> "cross-site-scripting" attack,  or is that only with forms?

Almost certainly.  You'd want to really trust that remote file you're 
including.  I don't know the definition of cross-site-scripting attacks  
although I've tried to read about it on occassion.

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 17:25:08 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:25:08 -0500 (EST)
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310301224120.9206-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I hope nvu won;t be so application heavy, mozilla is so sluggish.


On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 09:18:33 -0500
> Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > That said, I've very excited to try it.  I've been waiting a long time
> > for linux web-development for dummies like me.  Bluefish is only fun
> > for so long...
> 
> Have you tried Amaya? Personally, my page is so simple I just use a text
> editor, but I was somewhat impressed with Amaya for the few minutes I
> used it ;-)
> 
> http://www.w3.org/Amaya/
> 
> 

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 17:48:58 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:48:58 -0500 (EST)
Subject: how to recover from a bad BIOS flash
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310301244260.9289-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I remember posting a  message about this a while ago, but couldn't 
remember the link.  Well, I found it again and thought it was interesting 
enough to pass along.  Unlike the article states, you probably don't need 
the same motherboard, as long as it seats the same bios chip, and most of 
them do.

http://www.thetechboard.com/tutorials/flashBIOS.php



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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 21:25:57 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:25:57 +0200 (IST)
Subject: lost mail
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0308200141480.1530-Ci2SjaSQDSULvMNHDqYZmw@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.53.0308200141480.1530@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310292325270.875@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 20 Aug 2003, Peter L. Peres wrote:

>
> Hi,
>
> I have posted a message to this list twice, in the last 2 hours. I have
> not seen it. It is relative to the SCO vs. Linux debate. Who or what do I
> need to do or contact to clarify where my email got deleted ?

Disregard. Someone relaseed an ancient spool into the mail again. It's
from August ...

Peter
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From plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org  Wed Oct 29 21:27:49 2003
From: plp-ysDPMY98cNQDDBjDh4tngg at public.gmane.org (Peter L. Peres)
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 23:27:49 +0200 (IST)
Subject: when dealing with an extortionist
In-Reply-To: <3F9FA93A.5050602-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY2-F67DdcTD5uZJor0001947f@hotmail.com> <3F9FA93A.5050602@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310292327240.875@cyc.cyc.ubzr.bet>


On Wed, 29 Oct 2003, James Knott wrote:

> This is all I got, when I clicked on that link.
>
> "Your email message has been idle and this link has become inactive. To
> access the link, close this window and return to your MSN Hotmail
> Message. Then click the browser's Refresh button or close your message
> and reopen it. "

So the dead fish smell just got stonger, no ?

>
> E K wrote:
> > Every thing about SCO smells like dead fish. Here is another related
> > article.
> >
> > http://65.54.246.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=06397de0fd0d0d397c1b25824457a372&lat=1061331581&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2flinuxtoday%2ecom%2fdeveloper%2f2003081901726OSCYLL
> > <http://65.54.246.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=06397de0fd0d0d397c1b25824457a372&lat=1061331581&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2flinuxtoday%2ecom%2fdeveloper%2f2003081901726OSCYLL>
> >
> > I appreciate their nerve though!
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 17:42:56 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:42:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: how to log out without panel
In-Reply-To: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <21914.199.64.0.252.1067535776.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>


Chris Aitken said:
<snip>
> But does anyone know how I can log out of this accoutntso my daughter
> can log into her account? I managed to create an xterm icon (from the
> nautilus Start Here icon) and I do all my work from there, launching
> applications, doing backups, etc. It's good for me. But I don't know
> how to log out of the GUI.  Logging out of my daughter's account and
> into mine is no problem, but the other way around I don't know how. I
> tried Ctrl+Alt+F1 to get to command line,  logout, su - daughter,
> startx - that was my best guess but of course it didn't work and it
> reported X is already up.

ctrl-alt-backspace is usually the key to kill the current x-session. 
Also, IIRC in Gnome you can right click on the desktop and somewhere in
the menu should be logout.
Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to
  make money do more for the betterment of life.
    -- Henry Ford (1863 - 1947)
 ********************************************************************/



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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 17:52:44 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:52:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: FW: PayPal official notice - OT
In-Reply-To: <004d01c39ef5$b242bc40$6401a8c0-UxDKcUsq0RM@public.gmane.org>
References: <LEENICJIOKJCGBPDNFGEMELICDAA.sbarbour@lifegateintl.com>
        <004d01c39ef5$b242bc40$6401a8c0@main>
Message-ID: <31308.199.64.0.252.1067536364.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>

Sidney Shapiro said:
> Now if that?s not a call for a vigilante cyber justice squad, I don?t
> know what is. :)
>
> Sid
>
> 01001000 01100001 01110110 01100101 00100000 01100001 00100000 01101110
> 01101001 01100011 01100101 00100000 01100100 01100001 01111001

A real cyber vigilante would have ended with either 00100001 or 00101110
to create an even-word pad.  :)

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  The highest use of capital is not to make more money, but to
  make money do more for the betterment of life.
    -- Henry Ford (1863 - 1947)
 ********************************************************************/



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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 18:38:56 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:38:56 -0500
Subject: how to log out without panel
In-Reply-To: <21914.199.64.0.252.1067535776.squirrel-PKTTN8nhR5Vsnvfx0nWLX9HuzzzSOjJt@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A@onlink.net>
	<21914.199.64.0.252.1067535776.squirrel@mail.indigofire.net>
Message-ID: <20031030133856.6ce1adcb.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:42:56 -0500 (EST)
"Kareem Shehata" <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Also, IIRC in Gnome you can right click on the desktop and somewhere
> in the menu should be logout.
> Kareem

I thought so too, but I fired up a Gnome session just to see, and no
"root menu". Couldn't even find anything that would enable or disable
the panel, though there is a config option for the panel in Gnome
Control Center under Advanced...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.
		-- Maslow
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 18:48:29 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:48:29 -0500
Subject: how to log out without panel
In-Reply-To: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A@onlink.net>
Message-ID: <20031030134829.19d20bc3.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 21:23:10 -0500
Chris Aitken <aitken-BwLjziHGQLusTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> A while back I posted for help with my missing gnome panel. I was
> offered a little direction but nothing helped. I can't find anything
> on google either. I even tried removing files from another
> /home/account one-by-one -to see which file affects the panel - none
> did - that leaves me wondering if the panel is not even stored in
> /home/account - whch is wierd because all the new accounts I create
> have panels - so, where are these account-specific panels stored?

I think I might have just found it.

Open Gnome Control Center, click on Advanced, then Sessions. Go to the
Current Sessions tab, see if there is an item in there for gnome-panel.
If not, it somehow might have been removed from the session startup.

Go to the Startup Programs tab, click add, and put in "gnome-panel".

Back out of X (ctrl-alt-back), and startx again.

HTH!

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The greatest griefs are those we cause ourselves.
		-- Sophocles
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From ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 18:54:18 2003
From: ekgab-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (E K)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:54:18 +0300
Subject: Looking for tech help
Message-ID: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2@hotmail.com>

An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 18:36:03 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:36:03 -0500
Subject: Upgrading RH7.2 to RH9 questions
In-Reply-To: <3FA05847.6000102-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA05847.6000102@passport.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030133603.551d0e14.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 19:16:07 -0500
Jim Ruxton <cinetron-uEvt2TsIf2EsA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> I'm going to upgrade a dual boot XP , RH7.2 laptop to dual boot XP, RH9 
> . I have some questions that I was hoping someone could help me with.
> I think I'm just going to install RH9 rather than update RH7.2 so I can 
> start over. RH7.2 was my first Linux system and I've learned a lot. My 
> file systems are a bit messed up so I think I'd rather start from 
> scratch . I want the new install to be as painless as possible so I 
> figure there are some things I should save like the files beneath  ~/  . 
>   Are there other files I should save to make my life easy when I 
> upgrade ?  I figure my old XF86Config-4 would be a good thing to have 
> handy. Yes I have backups but I want the files I really need to be 
> easily accessible.
>  I  also want to save all my email and bookmarks. I'm currently using 
> Mozilla 1.0 . Is there an easy way to do this?
> When I start the install will the RH9 CD's recognize that I have a dual 
> boot system and leave my XP partition alone.?
> Will the install automatically delete my old system (Rh7.2 files) or do 
> I have to do that manually?
> I'm a bit nervous to start all over from scratch. It was a bitch getting 
> everything working in the first place but then I knew nothing about 
> Linux at that point. Thanks for any hints on the best way to proceed.
> Jim

Jim,

   When you write your /home filesystem out to CD, all of your email, your bookmarks and everything else will be saved.  Next time (assuming you did not do it this time) place /home on its own partition.  Then you can blow away /, and re-install to your heart's content.

   Red Hat gives you a bunch of choices for an install.  Most of these are dangerous if you have partitions you want preserved.  If you want to re-partition, do a Custom install.  If you do not want to re-partition, consider doing an Upgrade.  Since all the valuable data on my system is off the / partition, I do the Custom install systematically.

   In addition to your /home filesystem, make sure you back up /etc.  You will want to look at this stuff, later.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 18:49:42 2003
From: hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org (Howard Gibson)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 13:49:42 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030153025.GC3166-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
	<1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	<20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>
	<20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030134942.78d05cb4.hgibson@eol.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:30:25 -0500
Austin <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> wrote:

> While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
> 1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done  
> once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)
> 2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be dymanic  
> of course)
> 
> I assume one could do #1 very easily, but #2 must require a perl script  
> or something?

Austin,

   I have a Perl script that searches HTML files for a tag.  When it finds the tag, it inserts the contents of a specified HTML file.  When I am ready to update the website, I run a Makefile which calls up this script to set up a footer.  I upload the results.  To fix all the footers on the site, I have to re-upload all the HTML, but this is fairly easy with FTP, and easier if you have a shell account.  The PERL code is trivial, and I do not need to execute anything at the server.

-- 
Howard Gibson 
hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ at public.gmane.org
howard-42qnO8ePF9cV+D8aMU/kSg at public.gmane.org 
http://home.eol.ca/~hgibson
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 19:02:28 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:02:28 -0500
Subject: Looking for tech help
In-Reply-To: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <20031030190228.GA538@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 09:54:18PM +0300, E K wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> If there is any one who does tech support on call basis get back to me
> with your rate and brief bio (to show my boss) in private.
> 
> Equbay

Which OS?

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 19:03:48 2003
From: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org (Robert Brockway)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:03:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Mail delivery problem on my server
In-Reply-To: <3FA13AC6.9020601-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA13AC6.9020601@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310301402120.11991@zen.canint.timetraveller.org>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, Madison Kelly wrote:

>    The only other thing I have noticed is that, for some reason, some of
> the mail account spool files on the server have the group "mail" set
> where most of the others have both owner AND group set to their
> name/group. Finally, a couple other accounts had been changed to
> permission -rw------- (0600) where most again where -rw-rw---- (0660). I
> tried changing my own 'mkelly' file to owner/group mkelly and setting
> the permissions back to 0660 but the message still bounced.

Did you try 0660 with user:group of mkelly:mail ?  The way I read the para
above this combination hasn't been tried and it is a very common
configuration for mail.

Cheers,
	Rob

-- 
Robert Brockway B.Sc. email: robert-5LEc/6Zm6xCUd8a0hrldnti2O/JbrIOy at public.gmane.org, zzbrock at uqconnect.net
Linux counter project ID #16440 (http://counter.li.org)
"The earth is but one country and mankind its citizens" -Baha'u'llah
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 19:06:00 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:06:00 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030134942.78d05cb4.hgibson-MwcKTmeKVNQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <20031030134942.78d05cb4.hgibson@eol.ca>
Message-ID: <200310301406.00690.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 30 October 2003 13:49, Howard Gibson wrote:

>    I have a Perl script that searches HTML files for a tag.  When it finds
> the tag, it inserts the contents of a specified HTML file.  When I am ready
> to update the website, I run a Makefile which calls up this script to set
> up a footer.  I upload the results.  To fix all the footers on the site, I
> have to re-upload all the HTML, but this is fairly easy with FTP, and
> easier if you have a shell account.  The PERL code is trivial, and I do not
> need to execute anything at the server.

At one time I used m4 for generating HTML.  The first hit on google finds this 
tutorial (http://www.fysik.dtu.dk/CAMP/htmlinm4.html), not the one I used but 
still interesting.  Before that I thought m4 was only for sendmail config 
files ;-)

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 19:57:04 2003
From: tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Teodor Iliescu)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:57:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310301454520.2172-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 10:53:50 -0500
> Matthew Godycki <mcg2-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > Really easy to do includes with PHP.
> 
> So easy even I can do it. That's how I get the uptime display at the
> bottom of the main page.
> 
> It's as simple as this:
> 
> <?php include "uptime.txt"; ?>
> 
> with a cron job that writes to the text file.
> 
> PHP is definitely the easiest way to go for dynamic content.

Getting a cronjob to update the text file does the job, although it is so
inefficient. Think about it, you are running the cronjob every 5 minutes
or so, and you are causing I/O. Plus, the reading is not necessarily
accurate, if it is outdated by 5 minutes.

A safe, and secure way of doing this (in Perl), as I was thought in
school, is to just use the back ticks to invoke a command, such as:

print `uptime`;

Now, you should additionally invoke Perl, with the -T (tainted option),
which basically means you have to explicitly say where Perl should run
each program from. So the above would turn into:

print `/usr/bin/uptime`;

Additionally, you should empty your PATH variable, before invoking
commands, otherwise it chokes.

This will get rid of the cron jobs, get rid of the static text file, and
it will have a live reading of your's system's uptime status.


Links:

Looks like Php does it the same way:
http://www.phpfreaks.com/articles/45/0.php

Check tainting in PERL FAQ:
http://gunther.web66.com/FAQS/taintmode.html

-Teodor I.





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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 20:30:36 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:30:36 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310301454520.2172-100000-zVIyXm3mjq1oM55T5W/052G8O1WwMoTE@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310301454520.2172-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>
Message-ID: <20031030153036.04923628.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 14:57:04 -0500 (EST)
Teodor Iliescu <tiliescu-ZdyLq7YhDA8hunQcOVOuvCwD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> Getting a cronjob to update the text file does the job, although it is
> so inefficient. Think about it, you are running the cronjob every 5
> minutes or so, and you are causing I/O. Plus, the reading is not
> necessarily accurate, if it is outdated by 5 minutes.

It's on a seperate machine, so I'm not too concerned about I/O. Also,
with print, it doesn't serve the output in the font I want. I'm not
going for dead-on accuracy, either, it was really just to see a basic
indicator (not too good at this point, I had to reboot due to some file
corruption in my home dir from MLDonkey...grrrrrr!)

OTOH, I should be looking into Perl anyhow, as it is one kick ass
scripting language from what I've seen, and would be useful for so many
other porpoises ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Instead of loving your enemies, treat your friends a little better.
		-- Edgar W. Howe
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 21:11:22 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:11:22 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310301454520.2172-100000-zVIyXm3mjq1oM55T5W/052G8O1WwMoTE@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10310301454520.2172-100000@britanic.senecac.on.ca>
Message-ID: <200310301611.22357.fraser@wehave.net>

On Thursday 30 October 2003 14:57, Teodor Iliescu wrote:

> print `uptime`;

If the only dynamic component of the page is uptime then perl seems like 
overkill.  You can still use SSI like this:

index.shtml:

    <html>
    Server uptime:<br>
    <!--#exec cgi="/cgi-bin/uptime" -->
    </html>

/cgi-bin/uptime:

    #!/bin/sh
    echo Content-type: text/html
    echo
    /usr/bin/uptime

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 21:41:27 2003
From: Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw at public.gmane.org (Tom)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 16:41:27 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <bns391$ik3$1@sea.gmane.org>


"Austin" <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> wrote in message
news:1067523511.2445.10.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RNjYx0XDsrlOQ at public.gmane.org
> Yes, it's cool to see them trying to give a little back.
> No, it's not cool that they are spreading propaganda and singing their
> own praises for 'the open-source dreamweaver', which doesn't even have a
> developers site yet, which is built on top of Mozilla, and which I don't
> think will be HALF as good as dreamweaver.  It's the method to their
> madness that bothers me.

Don't slag them for building on top of Composer - that's the whole idea of
open source.  As a developer, it's much more fun to start your own project
from scratch, but it's better if we try to build on each others' work.

Tom.

> That said, I've very excited to try it.  I've been waiting a long time
> for linux web-development for dummies like me.  Bluefish is only fun for
> so long...
>
> Austin
>
> -- 
>                                  Austin Acton
>         Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
>                Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>         MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
>
>
> --
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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>



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From jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 23:19:09 2003
From: jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/ at public.gmane.org (Jason Shein)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:19:09 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <bns391$ik3$1@sea.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <bns391$ik3$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <3FA19C6D.7070409@pcsecurityonline.com>

Tom wrote:
> "Austin" <aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org> wrote in message
> news:1067523511.2445.10.camel-33sJirT1wKw4/KGrnxCAsvBjuwtQqDz/bwi28uEu5RNjYx0XDsrlOQ at public.gmane.org
> 
>>Yes, it's cool to see them trying to give a little back.
>>No, it's not cool that they are spreading propaganda and singing their
>>own praises for 'the open-source dreamweaver', which doesn't even have a
>>developers site yet, which is built on top of Mozilla, and which I don't
>>think will be HALF as good as dreamweaver.  It's the method to their
>>madness that bothers me.
> 
> 
> Don't slag them for building on top of Composer - that's the whole idea of
> open source.  As a developer, it's much more fun to start your own project
> from scratch, but it's better if we try to build on each others' work.
> 
> Tom.
> 
> 
>>That said, I've very excited to try it.  I've been waiting a long time
>>for linux web-development for dummies like me.  Bluefish is only fun for
>>so long...
>>
>>Austin
>>
>>-- 
>>                                 Austin Acton
>>        Synthetic Organic Chemist, Teaching Assistant, Ph.D. Candidate
>>               Department of Chemistry, York University, Toronto
>>        MandrakeLinux Volunteer Developer, homepage: www.groundstate.ca
>>
>>
>>--
>>The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
>>TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
>>How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
> How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
So is it just coincidence or marketing intervention that this 
announcement comes just days after Codeweavers announced bronze level 
support for DreamweaverMX and FlashMX on their Crossover Office software

Read the press announcement here
http://www.codeweavers.com/site/about/general/press/?id=20031027

Changelog here
http://www.codeweavers.com/site/products/cxoffice/change_log/

And supported apps here
http://www.codeweavers.com/site/products/cxoffice/supported_apps/



-- 
" Eventually people tire of repairing broken Windows,
        And decide to replace them with something stronger"
(o_
//\        Linux - The Choice Of A GNU Generation
V_/_                     Jason Shein
       		Linux Registered User #281100
		 jason-gaRZxGPHtpBxZtjKW1aY+1aTQe2KTcn/@public.gmane.org

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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Thu Oct 30 23:26:12 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 18:26:12 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <bns391$ik3$1@sea.gmane.org>; from Tom-QXpTDD2AffPSUeElwK9/Pw@public.gmane.org on Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 16:41:27 -0500
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <bns391$ik3$1@sea.gmane.org>
Message-ID: <20031030232612.GI4295@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>

On 10/30/2003 04:41:27 PM, Tom wrote:
> Don't slag them for building on top of Composer - that's the whole
> idea of open source.  As a developer, it's much more fun to start  
> your own project from scratch, but it's better if we try to build on  
> each others' work.

No, not at all.  I think it's a great idea.
What I was slagging them for is that I assume they will publicise the  
hell out of it saying "look what we, Lindows, have created.  Now  
everyone can stop using Windows, and start using Lindows."
It's mainly their marketing strategy that bothers me.  I mean, the damn  
thing is called Lindows.  ;-)
Time will tell how much credit the mozilla team gets.  It's definitely  
not too late for Lindows to redeem themselves.

Austin
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 00:14:48 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:14:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: how to log out without panel
In-Reply-To: <20031030134829.19d20bc3.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA0760D.DD9BB04A@onlink.net>
    <20031030134829.19d20bc3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <44415.216.138.194.32.1067559288.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


>> A while back I posted for help with my missing gnome panel. I was
>> offered a little direction but nothing helped. I can't find anything
>> on google either. I even tried removing files from another
>> /home/account one-by-one -to see which file affects the panel - none
>> did - that leaves me wondering if the panel is not even stored in
>> /home/account - whch is wierd because all the new accounts I create
>> have panels - so, where are these account-specific panels stored?
>
> I think I might have just found it.
>
> Open Gnome Control Center, click on Advanced, then Sessions. Go to the
> Current Sessions tab, see if there is an item in there for gnome-panel.
> If not, it somehow might have been removed from the session startup.
>
> Go to the Startup Programs tab, click add, and put in "gnome-panel".
>
> Back out of X (ctrl-alt-back), and startx again.

That might work, but if it doesn't, you need to search $HOME with the -a
switch so you can see the dot files. Delete all the .gnome directories and
files and login. This should create a new gnome profile for you to replace
the fubar'ed one.

-- 
Keith
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 00:43:04 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 19:43:04 -0500 (EST)
Subject: "As for the GPL, it's total war."
In-Reply-To: <20031030132133.GB27628-Ko7VQgJ6otXK2ngFqW3eKNllqMFDOoLF@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030055942.0ae0f1d3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
    <20031030132133.GB27628@pluto.bsdwebhosting.net>
Message-ID: <44539.216.138.194.32.1067560984.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 05:59:42AM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
>> Now SCO has submitted it's arguments in detail, and it's quite plain
>> that they are going for the whole munchie.
>
> It doesn't matter if the GPL stands or falls in court: (a) this is an
> American court, and they do not control the legal system of other
> countries (eg. Canadian and American copyright law appear to be quite

Don't be so sure about that just yet... American laws do affect canadians,
especially in a field like tech where virtually nothing has been tested in
court yet. One of the biggest eye openers I've gotten yet is insurance.
Insurance rates for my company more than tripled last year because an
American court said that a broker was wrong to write 3rd party liability
out of the insurance contract. Bingo, now I gotta pay triple.

This common law system (relies on legal precedence) applies in most of
Canada, Quebec has it different with a civil law system that decides on
the merits of each case. Common law has been really helpful to judges in
areas where no legislation exists, tech being one of them.

OTOH, once Canadian legislators get a hold of an area where new laws are
required, we might get lucky, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting.

-- 
Keith
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From john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 01:10:49 2003
From: john.moniz-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (John Moniz)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:10:49 -0500
Subject: Missing device
Message-ID: <3FA1B699.9000207@sympatico.ca>

I am trying to capture some video from a dig video camera connected to a 
firewire card. When I run the dvgrab command, I get the following error:

raw1394 - couldn't get handle: No such device
This error usually means that the ieee1394 driver is not loaded or that 
/dev/raw1394 does not exist.

I have these modules loaded:
ohci1394               18600   0  (unused)
ieee1394               45388   0  [ohci1394]

But I have no /dev/raw1394 device listed. How do I make/get such a 
device? I couldn't find an "mk..." type command that might do it.

Thanks,

John.

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From login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 01:27:01 2003
From: login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:27:01 -0500
Subject: Looking for tech help
In-Reply-To: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <1532526272.20031030202701@istop.com>


Thursday, October 30, 2003, 1:54:18 PM, you wrote:

EK> Hi all,

EK> If there is any one who does tech support on call basis get back to me with your rate and brief bio (to show my boss) in private.

EK> Equbay

Top 10 questions to you:

1. What OS / Applications / Software / Database?
2. On-site or Off-site or both?
3. Location (city) / Type of Business?
4. # of servers and end users?
5. Additionally, list top 5 most technical issues?
6. What is really tech support? Hardware, Software etc...
7. Describe the required qualifications / education / experience for
   this position?
8. Describe the support hours you required from this person?
9. Any traveling involve?
10. Any additional notes?

Based on the above answers, someone will be able to answer your short
question in details.

S. Mohammad [login-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org]

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 01:11:44 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:11:44 -0500 (EST)
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031030051140.61f29a24.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha><20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca><20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net><20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com>
    <20031030051140.61f29a24.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> On Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:43:29 -0500
> cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org uttered:
>
>>
>> I can't think of other ways that there would be millions of dollars in
>> savings, and the thing that I expect it really points to is #1.  If
>> Microsoft is actually being competent about this, the result would be
>> a huge phalanx of _unemployable_ MCSEs.
>>
>> Success in truly creating a "Zero Administration" version of Windows
>> would mean mass unemployment for the existing admins.  Which ought to
>> be scary to them...
>
> I guess the point is, do we want the IT industry to consist of people
> filling sand bags against the latest and greatest MS blunder, or do we
> want an IT industry creating jobs by developing new ways for people to
> be more productive, creative, etc.?

If it's not an M$ blunder, then it will be a blunder of equally massive
porportions by someone else. God knows that OSS has seen it's share of
blunders, and some of them still continue (sendmail f.ex).

Then these linux-windoh$ wannabes are releasing Lindoh$s... making things
worse by releasing a honeypot as a desktop.

> Software developers and admins seem to spend too much time trying to
> react to the latest threat, rather than building more useful software
> and systems.

Been to sourceforge lately? They've gotten so huge so fast they can't keep
up with the leaps. So many projects...

-- 
Keith Mastin
BeechTree Information Technology Services Inc.
Toronto, Canada
(416)429 9304
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 01:34:00 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:34:00 -0500
Subject: Update kernel via RPM..
In-Reply-To: <200310301156.18558.jerome-mhXWc29+iYPyG1zEObXtfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310301156.18558.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
Message-ID: <3FA1BC08.2090500@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Which distribution are you using?

Under Redhat, each (Redhat packaged) kernel version comes as a different
package.  Installing a new kernel version doesn't override the old one.
~ The old boot files, i.e. /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-20.9 will still be there.
~ They can be removed by manually uninstalling that particular kernel
version.

JM wrote:
| Hi,
|
| Ive read the man pages for rpm and there's no way that I can upgrade
my kernel
| without removing the old files... are there ways on how to do this?
|
| or do i have to manually backup files in /boot then do an rpm upgrade
of the
| kernel..
|
|
| TIA
| jm
| --
| The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
| TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

~ "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
~ - Some bad guy from 007
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/obwIRreNkzrRRLQRAk4mAJ9SP/juK6TX9oOkJqK3IP4MgvIJXgCeP/km
DfS71zVGYgC6sIMvbc15c8k=
=FDcN
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 01:36:26 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:36:26 -0500
Subject: Looking for tech help
In-Reply-To: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2@hotmail.com>
Message-ID: <3FA1BC9A.1020501@alteeve.com>

Hi Equbay,

   Could you provide a bit more info on what environment you need help 
with? I am pretty good at hardware, networking, OS config - general 
sysadmin stuff. In fact, on-site support is what I do as my 
bread-and-butter. If you need assistance with specific apps then it 
would depend a bit more.

   In case you would like to know before hand, I charge $65/h and I have 
about six years of experience; the first four mainly in MS environments, 
the last two mostly in Linux (though with a decent amount of MS still in 
there).

   Take care, and best of luck finding help!

Madison

E K wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> If there is any one who does tech support on call basis get back to me 
> with your rate and brief bio (to show my boss) in private.
> 
> Equbay
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. 
> <http://g.msn.com/8HMAEN/2752??PS=> Get 2 months FREE*.-- The Toronto 
> Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux 
> topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: 
> http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 01:42:08 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:42:08 -0500
Subject: Looking for tech help
In-Reply-To: <3FA1BC9A.1020501-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <BAY99-F67GmCvoXM7e0000009e2@hotmail.com> <3FA1BC9A.1020501@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <3FA1BDF0.2090607@alteeve.com>

   Oh, well now, how is that for a bad first impression? :) This went to 
the list by accident, of course.

Madison

Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi Equbay,
> 
>   Could you provide a bit more info on what environment you need help 
> with? I am pretty good at hardware, networking, OS config - general 
> sysadmin stuff. In fact, on-site support is what I do as my 
> bread-and-butter. If you need assistance with specific apps then it 
> would depend a bit more.
> 
>   In case you would like to know before hand, I charge $65/h and I have 
> about six years of experience; the first four mainly in MS environments, 
> the last two mostly in Linux (though with a decent amount of MS still in 
> there).
> 
>   Take care, and best of luck finding help!
> 
> Madison
> 
> E K wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>>
>> If there is any one who does tech support on call basis get back to me 
>> with your rate and brief bio (to show my boss) in private.
>>
>> Equbay
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> MSN 8 helps ELIMINATE E-MAIL VIRUSES. 
>> <http://g.msn.com/8HMAEN/2752??PS=> Get 2 months FREE*.-- The Toronto 
>> Linux Users Group. Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org TLUG requests: Linux 
>> topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns How to UNSUBSCRIBE: 
>> http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml
> 
> 
> -- 
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> TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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> 

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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 02:16:25 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 21:16:25 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Update kernel via RPM..
In-Reply-To: <3FA1BC08.2090500-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310301156.18558.jerome@gmanmi.tv>
    <3FA1BC08.2090500@truxtar.com>
Message-ID: <44726.216.138.194.32.1067566585.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


> Which distribution are you using?
>
> Under Redhat, each (Redhat packaged) kernel version comes as a different
> package.  Installing a new kernel version doesn't override the old one.

It shouldn't, as long as you read the docs. :) In short, one doesn't
'upgrade the kernel', one creates a new kernel in case the new one doesn't
work so you have a fallback option. I've heard of people messing things up
by doing rpm -Uvh on a kernel instead of rpm -i.

If the OP is using redhat, he should be able to update the kernel by using
up2date.

> ~ The old boot files, i.e. /boot/vmlinuz-2.4.20-20.9 will still be there.
> ~ They can be removed by manually uninstalling that particular kernel
> version.

Unless there's space considerations, I would just leave everything in
/boot alone. If you're worried about security just umount /boot. It's not
needed after the kernel boots.

-- 
Keith
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From anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 03:03:52 2003
From: anton-F0u+EriZ6ihBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Anton Markov)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:03:52 -0500
Subject: Missing device
In-Reply-To: <3FA1B699.9000207-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1B699.9000207@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA1D118.5050402@truxtar.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi John,

What kernel version and which distribution are you running?  You need a
2.4 series kernel (you could patch a 2.2 kernel, but I think it's best
to just upgrade).

Try:
mknod /dev/raw1394 c 171 0
modprobe raw1394

This did the job for my Via OHCI adapter and Sony TRV140 DV camcorder.

If you need more help, check out the info at
<http://www.linux1394.org/start_req.html>

I would also suggest you use a higher-level program such as Kino
<http://kino.schirmacher.de/>

Enjoy :)

John Moniz wrote:
| I am trying to capture some video from a dig video camera connected to a
| firewire card. When I run the dvgrab command, I get the following error:
|
| raw1394 - couldn't get handle: No such device
| This error usually means that the ieee1394 driver is not loaded or that
| /dev/raw1394 does not exist.
|
| I have these modules loaded:
| ohci1394               18600   0  (unused)
| ieee1394               45388   0  [ohci1394]
|
| But I have no /dev/raw1394 device listed. How do I make/get such a
| device? I couldn't find an "mk..." type command that might do it.
|
| Thanks,
|
| John.
|
| --
| The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
| TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
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- --
Anton Markov <("anton" + "@" + "truxtar" + "." + "com")>

GnuPGP Key fingerprint =
5546 A6E2 1FFB 9BB8 15C3  CE34 46B7 8D93 3AD1 44B4

~ "The difference between insanity and genius is measured only by success."
~ - Some bad guy from 007
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org

iD8DBQE/odEXRreNkzrRRLQRAjIDAJ9qrujn9WCgKcAKFvZgcsgKN/ut2gCfQwix
EAjeM3Ua7Ln8oXUtn+E4k10=
=1M+d
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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From kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 03:29:15 2003
From: kru_tch-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (Stephen Allen)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:29:15 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <20031030153025.GC3166-248nrIFxrsEvhQDQrEiaqAi/Dn5oqdb4930Pai70D+E@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca> <20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA1D70B.50404@yahoo.ca>

Austin wrote:

> While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
> 1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done  
> once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)
> 2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be dymanic  
> of course)
> 
> I assume one could do #1 very easily, but #2 must require a perl script  
> or something?

Dunno about #2, (have to think about it), but server side includes will do #1.

-- 
Best Regards,

Steve

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From legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 04:45:15 2003
From: legrady-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Tom Legrady)
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 23:45:15 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <3FA1D70B.50404-FFYn/CNdgSA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com> <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca> <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca> <20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <3FA1D70B.50404@yahoo.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA1E8DB.8080107@rogers.com>

#2 - a 'cgi' script to fetch the remote page and insert it into your 
HTML::Template. Alternately, use a frame for the page, and just put the 
URL in the appropriate spot, the browser will do the work for you

Tom

Stephen Allen wrote:

> Austin wrote:
>
>> While we're on the topic, does anyone know how to:
>> 1. embed a local html file into each page of a site? (could be done  
>> once or at each page serve, like for a sidebar or a footer)
>> 2. embed a remote html (on-the-fly) file into a page? (must be 
>> dymanic  of course)
>>
>> I assume one could do #1 very easily, but #2 must require a perl 
>> script  or something?
>
>
> Dunno about #2, (have to think about it), but server side includes 
> will do #1.
>

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From marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 06:08:11 2003
From: marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org (Marcus Brubaker)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 01:08:11 -0500
Subject: "As for the GPL, it's total war."
In-Reply-To: <20031030132133.GB27628-Ko7VQgJ6otXK2ngFqW3eKNllqMFDOoLF@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031030055942.0ae0f1d3.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	 <20031030132133.GB27628@pluto.bsdwebhosting.net>
Message-ID: <1067580484.3755.27.camel@rincewind.discworld>

On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 08:21, Byron Desnoyers Winmill wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 05:59:42AM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
> > Now SCO has submitted it's arguments in detail, and it's quite plain
> > that they are going for the whole munchie.
> 
> It doesn't matter if the GPL stands or falls in court: (a) this is an
> American court, and they do not control the legal system of other
> countries (eg. Canadian and American copyright law appear to be quite

Don't bet on it.  Due to free trade agreements and international
organizations most countries which have active trade relations with the
US have agreements to recognize (to some degree or another) US
copyrights and patents.  (The agreements go both ways.)

Beyond that it VERY MUCH matters whether the GPL stands or falls,
especially in this case.  If you read the full analysis at Groklaw about
SCO's argument with respect to the GPL it basically boils down to this:
the GPL violates copyright law because copyright law is meant to create
and protect proprietary works, hence the GPL is invalid and
unenforcible.  This kind of argument basically says the only things that
get copyright protection are fully proprietary works.  The kind of
precedent this could set would destroy the corporate environment around
OSS as we know it.

> different); (b) the failure of the GPL would probably bring most license
> agreements into question, and finally end this nonsense of publishers

Not likely.  As I said above, this failure would only serve to further
strengthen proprietary copyrights.

> dictating how we use our computers; (c) if all else fails, the copyrights
> would have to revert to the authors -- so they would not loose anything.

Actually, SCO is arguing that these copyrights are invalid to begin with
and that all GPL'd works are actually by default in the public domain.

> 
> > ....and, honestly, whom do you think is pulling the strings on this one?
> 
> There are companies which have a lot more to loose (than the usual
> suspect) if there are not tight controls on how IP is managed.  *If*
> somebody else is pulling the strings, this may have nothing to do with
> software.

Honestly, the more I read about this case, the more I believe that SCO
honestly doesn't expect to win.  Hell, even an analyst with the Gartner
group has said this really seems to be an endgame move for SCO, win or
loose.

The SCO game plan (as far as I can tell) runs something like this:

1) File lawsuit against IBM which almost certainly won't be successful.

2) Avoid making public details of argument for as long as possible
(since they don't have a real one).  In the mean time, talk it up and
run up the stock prices on the potential payout of winning.  This is
done by use of disinformation and arguments that are so insane people
think they MUST have something up their sleeves.

3) Sometime before going to trial, cash out and sell the company to some
unwitting, fool-hardy company or investor.

4) Whether SCO wins or looses, investors in the know get rich, the
executives at the company make a lot of friends with said investors (as
well as lining their own pockets, see LWNs analysis of insider trades of
SCO stock) which will help them on their next venture all without having
to do anything more than sue IBM and make a huge todo over nothing.

If you want to take the guess work even further, you could venture that
the final purchaser will be MS.  Remember the investment they made at
the start of this thing?  If they buy out SCO in a few months they only
have lost a few million (drop in the bucket) but, win or loose, will
have caused irreparable harm to the image of Linux which could take
years to counterbalance.  Tarnishing the image of Linux is something MS
has been trying hard to do but has managed to be wildly unsuccessful
at.  Even they've admitted that negative marketing against Linux and OSS
has done more harm to them than good.

-- 
Marcus Brubaker <marcus.brubaker-H217xnMUJC0sA/PxXw9srA at public.gmane.org>

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 11:53:48 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:53:48 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
	<20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com>
	<20031030051140.61f29a24.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Thu, 30 Oct 2003 20:11:44 -0500 (EST)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> > I guess the point is, do we want the IT industry to consist of
> > people filling sand bags against the latest and greatest MS blunder,
> > or do we want an IT industry creating jobs by developing new ways
> > for people to be more productive, creative, etc.?
> 
> If it's not an M$ blunder, then it will be a blunder of equally
> massive porportions by someone else. God knows that OSS has seen it's
> share of blunders, and some of them still continue (sendmail f.ex)

Well, sendmail, that goes without saying, doesn't it...? ;-) I do think
though, that MS is responsible for faaaaaar too much "makework", as it
were, which is why I posted those links. Check out this quote from one
of them:

<QUOTE>

One such user, Jeffrey Barczak, a network support specialist with the
Pennsylvania State University, says that he first experienced problems
with the OWA security update only hours after installing it on one of
his personal test systems.

"Mail began accumulating in the 'Outboxes' on the Outlook clients that
my Exchange 2000 Server supports. And for the few POP3 clients that I
support, their mail got stuck in the SMTP queue," he explains.

The problem, Barczak discovered, was that Exchange 2000's Information
Store (MSExchangeIS) and POP3 (POP3Svc) services were apparently hanging
shortly after start-up. An e-mail to the Windows NT Systems
Administrators mailing list confirmed his suspicions: at least one other
IT manager responded and acknowledged that he'd experienced similar
issues. Both Barczak and the other affected IT manager found that simply
removing the patch didn't solve their problems.

Sometime on Friday, Microsoft pulled the OWA security update from its
TechNet Web site and replaced it with a cryptic message indicating that
the patch was "temporarily unavailable" and that it would likely "be
returned to the Web shortly." As of Sunday night, however, the software
patch was again available on Microsoft's Download Web site.

</QUOTE>

So, you see, this poor guy who probably could be doing so many more
productive things, instead he's dealing with the morass that MS patches
bring on.

> Then these linux-windoh$ wannabes are releasing Lindoh$s... making
> things worse by releasing a honeypot as a desktop.

Yeah, don't get me started on Lindows... ;-)
 
> > Software developers and admins seem to spend too much time trying to
> > react to the latest threat, rather than building more useful
> > software and systems.
> 
> Been to sourceforge lately? They've gotten so huge so fast they can't
> keep up with the leaps. So many projects...

Of course, and with any luck that will continue to be so. As I said on
another list, though, there's more to this than just carrying on "doing
the right thing", I really believe an active fight is in order, how to
model that fight, I guess, I don't really know.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can't run away forever,
But there's nothing wrong with getting a good head start.
		-- Jim Steinman, "Rock and Roll Dreams Come Through"
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 12:38:51 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:38:51 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha> <20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca> <20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net> <20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com> <20031030051140.61f29a24.joehill@sympatico.ca> <44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031031123851.GA1409@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 06:53:48AM -0500, JoeHill wrote:
> ...
> 
> So, you see, this poor guy who probably could be doing so many more
> productive things, instead he's dealing with the morass that MS
> patches bring on.

Ah... but he can blame it all on Microsoft, without betraying his (lack
of) expertise of something for which he is getting paid.  You can't do
that with Linux.  Techinical specs are not the only factor in IT
manager's mind in making purchasing decision.  Unless, of course, they
are spending their own money. :-)

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 13:20:14 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:20:14 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha> <44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca> <20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 31 October 2003 06:53, JoeHill wrote:

> > Then these linux-windoh$ wannabes are releasing Lindoh$s... making
> > things worse by releasing a honeypot as a desktop.
>
> Yeah, don't get me started on Lindows... ;-)

What exactly is Lindows doing that is so awful?  I don't understand why 
everyone is bashing them, I believe there's something that I've missed.  From 
what I see of their product it looks excellent.

The only awful thing that I am aware is that they had people running as root 
by default.  Running as root by default is insanity but I've heard rumours 
that may no longer be the case ... anyone know?

Other than the root thing what have they done?

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 13:33:16 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:33:16 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <200310310820.15079.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
	<44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031031083316.3278bcd7.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:20:14 -0500
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> What exactly is Lindows doing that is so awful?  I don't understand
> why everyone is bashing them, I believe there's something that I've
> missed.  From what I see of their product it looks excellent.
> 
> The only awful thing that I am aware is that they had people running
> as root by default.  Running as root by default is insanity but I've
> heard rumours that may no longer be the case ... anyone know?
> 
> Other than the root thing what have they done?

Well, the root thing first off. And I think you are correct, they've
made or are going to make changes to that.

My main complaint is the same one as I have with something like WineX or
Crossover, there are so many OSS projects that can do what closed source
proprietary software does, and Lindows is just encouraging people to use
Linux to run the same old crap, instead of really exploring OSS
alternatives.

Sorry if I'm a bit too Richard Stallman'ish for ya, but that's just the
way I am. I want to see the end of closed source proprietary software
(and hardware, for that matter) in my lifetime, and Lindows is *not* the
way to go to achieve that. If I were recommending someone switch to
Linux, I would push Mandrake or Debian, not Lindows.

Oh, and Lindows deals with WalMart, a company that has a *very* bad
track record when it comes to labour and union-busting, and we all know
how I stand on that subject ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
There is no sin but ignorance.
		-- Christopher Marlowe
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 14:48:12 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 09:48:12 -0500
Subject: Missing device
In-Reply-To: <3FA1B699.9000207-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1B699.9000207@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067611692.16363.1.camel@yoda>

Have you tried just "modprobe raw1394"?  If you have a recent (>2.4.18)
kernel compiled with all of the 1394 modules, that should do the trick.

Kareem

On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 20:10, John Moniz wrote:
> I am trying to capture some video from a dig video camera connected to a 
> firewire card. When I run the dvgrab command, I get the following error:
> 
> raw1394 - couldn't get handle: No such device
> This error usually means that the ieee1394 driver is not loaded or that 
> /dev/raw1394 does not exist.
> 
> I have these modules loaded:
> ohci1394               18600   0  (unused)
> ieee1394               45388   0  [ohci1394]
> 
> But I have no /dev/raw1394 device listed. How do I make/get such a 
> device? I couldn't find an "mk..." type command that might do it.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> John.

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 14:53:30 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:53:30 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031083316.3278bcd7.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha> <200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net> <20031031083316.3278bcd7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <200310310953.31016.fraser@wehave.net>

On Friday 31 October 2003 08:33, JoeHill wrote:

> My main complaint is the same one as I have with something like WineX or
> Crossover, there are so many OSS projects that can do what closed source
> proprietary software does, and Lindows is just encouraging people to use
> Linux to run the same old crap, instead of really exploring OSS
> alternatives.

As far as I know they don't encourage or market any Windows emulation 
technology, that stuff is a (useful) hack and not a long term solution.

> way to go to achieve that. If I were recommending someone switch to
> Linux, I would push Mandrake or Debian, not Lindows.

Me too (well not sure about Mandrake ;-)

> Oh, and Lindows deals with WalMart, a company that has a *very* bad
> track record when it comes to labour and union-busting, and we all know
> how I stand on that subject ;-)

I assume all Linux people hate unions ;-)

Lindows plays an aggressive marketing game, if Linux on the desktop expects to 
get big anytime soon I think that is needed.  Microsoft awful security record 
might help open people's minds to Linux but if someone isn't in their face 
I'm not sure they'll consider Linux as a viable alternative (or even know 
about it).

-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 15:03:00 2003
From: fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org (Fraser Campbell)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:03:00 -0500
Subject: Kernel 2.6 and wheelmouse
Message-ID: <200310311003.00189.fraser@wehave.net>

Hi,

I recently upgraded my desktop to the 2.6 kernel (test7).  Things are working 
fine with a couple of exceptions.

Most annoying is my wheelmouse.  It took me a while to get the mouse working 
at all but now it works, just not the wheel.  It's a logitech cordless mouse.  

X wouldn't work at all when I booted (couldn't find core pointer), I futzed 
around and found a combination of modules that would let X load but the mouse 
still didn't work though the pointer loaded.  Eventually I found a module 
called psmouse and loaded that, now using /dev/psaux instead of 
/dev/input/mice the mouse works ... behaves fine, 3 buttons work, just no 
wheel.

Here are the modules I'm using that I think are relevant:

    usbkbd                  7296  0
    usbcore               106708  3 ehci_hcd,hid,usbkbd
    psmouse                16780  0
    mousedev                9696  1

Here's the pointer part of my X config:

    Section "InputDevice"
        Identifier      "Configured Mouse"
        Driver          "mouse"
        Option          "CorePointer"
        Option          "Device"                "/dev/psaux"
        Option          "Protocol"              "ImPS/2"
        Option          "ZAxisMapping"          "4 5"
    EndSection

Any ideas?

Other problems but not major issues:

- dhcpd does not run, it exits complaining "Unrecognized kernel version"
-  kernel: process `named' is using obsolete setsockopt SO_BSDCOMPAT

I can do without dhcpd for now and named still works despite the message being 
logged.
-- 
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org>                 http://www.wehave.net/
Halton Hills, Ontario, Canada                             Debian GNU/Linux

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 15:14:14 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:14:14 -0500
Subject: Kernel 2.6 and wheelmouse
In-Reply-To: <200310311003.00189.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310311003.00189.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031031101414.6a4efc00.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:03:00 -0500
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Here's the pointer part of my X config:
> 
>     Section "InputDevice"
>         Identifier      "Configured Mouse"
>         Driver          "mouse"
>         Option          "CorePointer"
>         Option          "Device"                "/dev/psaux"
>         Option          "Protocol"              "ImPS/2"
>         Option          "ZAxisMapping"          "4 5"
>     EndSection
> 
> Any ideas?

Try this:

    Option "ZAxisMapping" "6 7"
    Option "Buttons" "7"

then, in your .xinitrc (assuming you start X from runlevel 3)

xmodmap -e "pointer = 1 2 3 7 6 4 5"

This was how I managed to get all of the buttons working on my
Intellimouse, maybe it will enable the wheel in yours?

One thing I can tell you for sure, you are not alone:

http://www.google.ca/linux?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=%22kernel+2.6%22+%2B+mouse+problems&btnG=Google+Search&meta=

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
What sane person could live in this world and not be crazy?
		-- Ursula K. LeGuin
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 15:17:04 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:17:04 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <200310310953.31016.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
	<200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net>
	<20031031083316.3278bcd7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<200310310953.31016.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <20031031101704.53bcd88f.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:53:30 -0500
Fraser Campbell <fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I assume all Linux people hate unions ;-)

What? I think you misunderstood me on that one d00d, check my nick on
Google...

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Each man is his own prisoner, in solitary confinement for life.
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From aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 15:32:05 2003
From: aacton-B71PBEe7S7Y at public.gmane.org (Austin)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 10:32:05 -0500
Subject: NVU the WYSIWYG HTML for linux
In-Reply-To: <3FA1E8DB.8080107-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA1153C.4080300@pcsecurityonline.com>
	 <1067523511.2445.10.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>
	 <20031030094009.73a59511.joehill@sympatico.ca> <3FA12783.6060401@yahoo.ca>
	 <20031030153025.GC3166@groundstate.chem.yorku.ca> <3FA1D70B.50404@yahoo.ca>
	 <3FA1E8DB.8080107@rogers.com>
Message-ID: <1067614325.2447.5.camel@gamma373-179.portable.resnet.yorku.ca>

On Thu, 2003-10-30 at 23:45, Tom Legrady wrote:
> #2 - a 'cgi' script to fetch the remote page and insert it into your 
> HTML::Template. Alternately, use a frame for the page, and just put the 
> URL in the appropriate spot, the browser will do the work for you

I'm such an idiot!  I forgot that it's already in a frame, and the remote
file is on the intranet, so it's a piece of cake.

Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions though.

Damn I'm dumb sometimes...
Austin

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From linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 16:47:26 2003
From: linux-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ at public.gmane.org (Madison Kelly)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:47:26 -0500
Subject: RH9 ISO Updateing, How?
Message-ID: <3FA2921E.3070704@alteeve.com>

Hi all,

   I know that you can mount an ISO a file system, and I know that you 
can add or update packages doing this, but I can't say that I actually 
know how. I build a decent number of systems and most of them use either 
the Intel 865x or 875x chipset and, when an add-in video card is used, 
it is usually a newer nVidia. The problem being of course that not all 
of the features of those chipsets (ie. AC'97 audio, NIC) are supported 
by the kernel native to the RH9 install disks. I can work around this 
okay, but it is pretty hard for some customers. Never mind that even 
though I can do it, it is a pain in the arse. :)

   So, my question is, does anyone know how, or better yet know of a 
HowTo that can show me how to properly do things like update packages 
(ie. kernel, up2date SSL) and add drivers (ie. nvidia, e1000) to the 
Redhat 9.0 install CDs so that they will be available and used during 
install?

   Many thanks!!

Madison

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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 16:11:35 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:11:35 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
Message-ID: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>

Thing were going great with my (knoppix installed) debian testing/ 
unstable system untill recently,
when apt-get began to choke on knx-alsa.
Now I run into apt-get errors that I'm not sure how to fix.

any such operation (CLI or Kpackage) terminates with;

...
Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
dpkg: error processing 
/var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
 trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package knx-alsa
dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Errors were encountered while processing:
 /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

error messages suggest "apt-get -f install", but that doesn't help.
I've tried "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt-get remove knx-*" without 
success.
I.ve tried renaming `/usr/bin/alsamixer' (no-go) and now I'm stumped.

should I go into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and nuke offending entries ?

ideas ?

thanks,
djp


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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 17:04:05 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:04:05 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RH9 ISO Updateing, How?
In-Reply-To: <3FA2921E.3070704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA2921E.3070704@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <45886.216.138.194.32.1067619845.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


>    So, my question is, does anyone know how, or better yet know of a
> HowTo that can show me how to properly do things like update packages
> (ie. kernel, up2date SSL) and add drivers (ie. nvidia, e1000) to the
> Redhat 9.0 install CDs so that they will be available and used during
> install?

If you search the redhat site there is a set of instructions for making
your own cds. Jan used to follow them for his updated releases. Be sure to
check the licenses on all the software you want to include, just in case.

-- 
Keith
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 17:28:33 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 12:28:33 -0500
Subject: RH9 ISO Updateing, How?
In-Reply-To: <3FA2921E.3070704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA2921E.3070704@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <1067621314.16363.5.camel@yoda>

Madison,

I haven't mucked about in RH in a while, but last time I did, there was
a RPMS folder in the root of the CD.  Try adding/removing packages there
and give it a shot.  Dunno if there's actually a package index on the
disk, or how you'd go about updating it.

HPH!

Kareem


On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 11:47, Madison Kelly wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
>    I know that you can mount an ISO a file system, and I know that you 
> can add or update packages doing this, but I can't say that I actually 
> know how. I build a decent number of systems and most of them use either 
> the Intel 865x or 875x chipset and, when an add-in video card is used, 
> it is usually a newer nVidia. The problem being of course that not all 
> of the features of those chipsets (ie. AC'97 audio, NIC) are supported 
> by the kernel native to the RH9 install disks. I can work around this 
> okay, but it is pretty hard for some customers. Never mind that even 
> though I can do it, it is a pain in the arse. :)
> 
>    So, my question is, does anyone know how, or better yet know of a 
> HowTo that can show me how to properly do things like update packages 
> (ie. kernel, up2date SSL) and add drivers (ie. nvidia, e1000) to the 
> Redhat 9.0 install CDs so that they will be available and used during 
> install?
> 
>    Many thanks!!
> 
> Madison

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 17:36:51 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 12:36:51 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <3FA289B7.3040306-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067621811.16362.11.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 11:11, David J Patrick wrote:
> Thing were going great with my (knoppix installed) debian testing/ 
> unstable system untill recently,
> when apt-get began to choke on knx-alsa.
> Now I run into apt-get errors that I'm not sure how to fix.
> 
> any such operation (CLI or Kpackage) terminates with;
> 
> ...
> Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
> dpkg: error processing 
> /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
>  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package knx-alsa
> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
> 
> error messages suggest "apt-get -f install", but that doesn't help.
> I've tried "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt-get remove knx-*" without 
> success.
> I.ve tried renaming `/usr/bin/alsamixer' (no-go) and now I'm stumped.
> 
> should I go into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and nuke offending entries ?
> 
> ideas ?
> 
> thanks,
> djp

Hmmmm... from where I am, I can only really state the obvious and hope
to catch something you may have missed.  Apologies in advance if I'm
insulting anyones intelligence.

It sounds like knx-alsa conflicts with the main alsa packages.  Dumb
question: did you try "apt-get remove knx-alsa" or "apt-get remove
knx-*"?  So far as I know, the latter won't work.  If the former, what
messages do you get?  Have you tried "apt-get check"?

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

--
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 16:36:36 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:36:36 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <1067621811.16362.11.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca> <1067621811.16362.11.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <3FA28F94.50609@sympatico.ca>

Kareem Shehata wrote:

>On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 11:11, David J Patrick wrote:
>  
>
>>Thing were going great with my (knoppix installed) debian testing/ 
>>unstable system untill recently,
>>when apt-get began to choke on knx-alsa.
>>Now I run into apt-get errors that I'm not sure how to fix.
>>
>>any such operation (CLI or Kpackage) terminates with;
>>
>>...
>>Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
>>dpkg: error processing 
>>/var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
>> trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package knx-alsa
>>dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
>>Errors were encountered while processing:
>> /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
>>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
>>
>>error messages suggest "apt-get -f install", but that doesn't help.
>>I've tried "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt-get remove knx-*" without 
>>success.
>>I.ve tried renaming `/usr/bin/alsamixer' (no-go) and now I'm stumped.
>>
>>should I go into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and nuke offending entries ?
>>
>>ideas ?
>>
>>thanks,
>>djp
>>    
>>
>
>Hmmmm... from where I am, I can only really state the obvious and hope
>to catch something you may have missed.  Apologies in advance if I'm
>insulting anyones intelligence.
>
>It sounds like knx-alsa conflicts with the main alsa packages.  Dumb
>question: did you try "apt-get remove knx-alsa" or "apt-get remove
>knx-*"? 
>
yes;
:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get remove knx-alsa
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  alsa-base: Depends: alsa-utils but it is not going to be installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or 
specify a solution).

> So far as I know, the latter won't work.  If the former, what
>messages do you get?  Have you tried "apt-get check"?
>  
>
root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get check
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these.
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  alsa-base: Depends: alsa-utils but it is not installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.

>Kareem
>
>  
>
thanks Kareem,
djp

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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 17:42:46 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:42:46 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <3FA289B7.3040306-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031031124246.13159a13.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:11:35 -0500
David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
> dpkg: error processing 
> /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
>  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package
>  knx-alsa
> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
> 
> error messages suggest "apt-get -f install", but that doesn't help.
> I've tried "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt-get remove knx-*" without 
> success.
> I.ve tried renaming `/usr/bin/alsamixer' (no-go) and now I'm stumped.
> 
> should I go into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and nuke offending entries ?
> 
> ideas ?

 I've run into similar situations in Mandrake.

You could "force" the install (is that the -f option?), though this is
never highly recommended, you would alway be able to reinstall
knx-alsa.

Were you able to rename /usr/bin/alsamixer, or do you mean you did but
it didn't help?

When you do apt-get remove knx-*, do you get an error message?

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The chief cause of problems is solutions.
		-- Eric Sevareid
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 16:42:39 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:42:39 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <1067621811.16362.11.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca> <1067621811.16362.11.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <3FA290FF.2070500@sympatico.ca>

It seems you are correct in the conclusion that knx-alsa is dukin' it 
out with the main packages.
Here's what happens when I try "-f install", as suggested by the error 
messeges.

root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get -f install
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Correcting dependencies... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  alsa-utils
Suggested packages:
  alsadriver
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  alsa-utils
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 161 not upgraded.
1 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 0B/89.5kB of archives.
After unpacking 233kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
(Reading database ... 149680 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
dpkg: error processing 
/var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
 trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package knx-alsa
dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Errors were encountered while processing:
 /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)


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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 16:49:29 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:49:29 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <20031031124246.13159a13.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca> <20031031124246.13159a13.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA29299.7030806@sympatico.ca>

JoeHill wrote:

>On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:11:35 -0500
>David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>  
>
>>Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
>>dpkg: error processing 
>>/var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
>> trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package
>> knx-alsa
>>dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
>>Errors were encountered while processing:
>> /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
>>E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
>>
>>error messages suggest "apt-get -f install", but that doesn't help.
>>I've tried "apt-get dist-upgrade" and "apt-get remove knx-*" without 
>>success.
>>I.ve tried renaming `/usr/bin/alsamixer' (no-go) and now I'm stumped.
>>
>>should I go into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and nuke offending entries ?
>>
>>ideas ?
>>    
>>
>
> I've run into similar situations in Mandrake.
>
>You could "force" the install (is that the -f option?), though this is
>never highly recommended, you would alway be able to reinstall
>knx-alsa.
>  
>
I'm hoping to avoid "forcing" things.
As to reinstalling knx alsa; why would I need it if the main alsa 
packages are working ?
(which, at the moment, they are not)

>Were you able to rename /usr/bin/alsamixer, or do you mean you did but
>it didn't help?
>  
>
I was able to rename, but afterwards the errors were unchanged.

>When you do apt-get remove knx-*, do you get an error message?
>  
>
root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get remove knx-* -s
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Note, selecting knx-installer for regex 'knx-*'
Note, selecting knx-flashplugin for regex 'knx-*'
Note, selecting knx-alsa for regex 'knx-*'
You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  alsa-base: Depends: alsa-utils but it is not going to be installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or 
specify a solution).

Back to square one !
    we both know it's some dumb/ simple thing .. but WHAT !! ;-)
djp


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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 17:57:16 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:57:16 -0500 (EST)
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <200310310820.15079.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311255000.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

> The only awful thing that I am aware is that they had people running as root 
> by default.  Running as root by default is insanity but I've heard rumours 
> that may no longer be the case ... anyone know?

for running a PC, that's not so bad really. I've been running like that 
for a long time, but not on my server:)


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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:04:46 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:04:46 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <3FA29299.7030806-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>
	<20031031124246.13159a13.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3FA29299.7030806@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <20031031130446.55f30d06.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:49:29 -0500
David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> >You could "force" the install (is that the -f option?), though this
> >is never highly recommended, you would alway be able to reinstall
> >knx-alsa.
> >  
> >
> I'm hoping to avoid "forcing" things.
> As to reinstalling knx alsa; why would I need it if the main alsa 
> packages are working ?
> (which, at the moment, they are not)

then really, there should be no concern with using a "force" option.
Sorry, I run Mandrake, so I don't know what switch enables the force
install, but if you see "man apt-get" I bet it's in there.

It's funny, though, that even after renaming /usr/bin/alsamixer, it
still saw a conflict. Perhaps you were on the right track, and there is
a record in /var/cache/apt/archives/ that is telling apt-get that
/usr/bin/alsamixer still exists, even though it does not.

Look in /var/cache/apt/archives/ for a config file that lists installed
packages, and you might be able to comment out or delete the entry.

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The major sin is the sin of being born.
		-- Samuel Beckett
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:07:21 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:07:21 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311255000.13150-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311255000.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031031130721.771a638b.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:57:16 -0500 (EST)
Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> for running a PC, that's not so bad really. I've been running like
> that for a long time, but not on my server:)

Good god man, why? One misstep and yer hosed...you could forget to put a
~ in front of / for example, and whatever command would...well, I'm sure
you can guess ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
We have reason to be afraid.  This is a terrible place.
		-- John Berryman
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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:10:12 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:10:12 -0500 (EST)
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031130721.771a638b.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031031130721.771a638b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310050.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

i'm careful:)


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:57:16 -0500 (EST)
> Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:
> 
> > for running a PC, that's not so bad really. I've been running like
> > that for a long time, but not on my server:)
> 
> Good god man, why? One misstep and yer hosed...you could forget to put a
> ~ in front of / for example, and whatever command would...well, I'm sure
> you can guess ;-)
> 
> 

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From jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:12:56 2003
From: jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org (Justin Zygmont)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:12:56 -0500 (EST)
Subject: RH9 ISO Updateing, How?
In-Reply-To: <3FA2921E.3070704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA2921E.3070704@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310240.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>

I tried doing this once and ran into problems, can't remember if it was 
because the loop mounted iso was read-only, but I guess you'd have to copy 
the whole ISO to a different directory, then replace the updated packages, 
and do an mkisofs for all 3 cd's.  I was hoping there was an easier way 
too, but the next release of rh can't be that far off now.


On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Madison Kelly wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
>    I know that you can mount an ISO a file system, and I know that you 
> can add or update packages doing this, but I can't say that I actually 
> know how. I build a decent number of systems and most of them use either 
> the Intel 865x or 875x chipset and, when an add-in video card is used, 
> it is usually a newer nVidia. The problem being of course that not all 
> of the features of those chipsets (ie. AC'97 audio, NIC) are supported 
> by the kernel native to the RH9 install disks. I can work around this 
> okay, but it is pretty hard for some customers. Never mind that even 
> though I can do it, it is a pain in the arse. :)
> 
>    So, my question is, does anyone know how, or better yet know of a 
> HowTo that can show me how to properly do things like update packages 
> (ie. kernel, up2date SSL) and add drivers (ie. nvidia, e1000) to the 
> Redhat 9.0 install CDs so that they will be available and used during 
> install?
> 
>    Many thanks!!
> 
> Madison
> 
> --
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 17:59:07 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 12:59:07 -0500 (EST)
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031083316.3278bcd7.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha><44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca><20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill@sympatico.ca><200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net>
    <20031031083316.3278bcd7.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <46123.216.138.194.32.1067623147.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


>> What exactly is Lindows doing that is so awful?  I don't understand
>> why everyone is bashing them, I believe there's something that I've
>> missed.  From what I see of their product it looks excellent.

I gag at the idea that linux guis resemble windoh$s guis. We're copying
them, not leading them, then we wonder why we always have the feeling that
our flies are undone.

>> The only awful thing that I am aware is that they had people running
>> as root by default.  Running as root by default is insanity but I've
>> heard rumours that may no longer be the case ... anyone know?

I'de love to run nessus up against one of those machines. We'll see how
h4x0r friendly it is then.

>> Other than the root thing what have they done?

Linux has some huge strengths that aren't being effectively exploited in
marketing. Viruses and worms aren't a problem like they are in windows. Do
we really realize how powerful a marketing tool that is? Huge. And the
networking features... those should be pushed to mom-n-pop home user too.
They love having control. Instead, those are hidden in the background and
programs that play wmv files are installed. I think that's bass-ackwards.

> Well, the root thing first off. And I think you are correct, they've
> made or are going to make changes to that.

It's a Debian distro! What were they thinking? Or was it just copying
Windoh$XP?

> My main complaint is the same one as I have with something like WineX or
> Crossover, there are so many OSS projects that can do what closed source
> proprietary software does, and Lindows is just encouraging people to use
> Linux to run the same old crap, instead of really exploring OSS
> alternatives.

Bingo! But then so is OpenOffice...

> Sorry if I'm a bit too Richard Stallman'ish for ya, but that's just the
> way I am. I want to see the end of closed source proprietary software
> (and hardware, for that matter) in my lifetime, and Lindows is *not* the
> way to go to achieve that. If I were recommending someone switch to
> Linux, I would push Mandrake or Debian, not Lindows.

For a total noob, Mandrake might be okay if it's been fixed in the last
couple years. I hated the idea of demo'ing a 'stable' system
('drake-6.0)that crashed and froze.

When we're talking about wide market distribution of a ready-to-wear OS,
we are not talking about selling what's under the hood, we're talking
about selling a paint job. The average schmoe doesn't care about the
subtleties of multi-tasking or secured filesystems, but they should be
able to get the benefit of them out-of-the-box while convincing themselves
(and all the friends) that kde or gnome IS linux.

And what is this AV crap on a linux desktop distro? That's gotta be the
most retarded thing I heard of.

As for ending the life closed-source software, I disagree. The whole world
should have a choice of whatever anyone can come up with. Some of that
software should be priced well out of our price range. I really don't want
the world to know that the DND is running on *nix, I want them to think
they're dealing with unca' billy.

> Oh, and Lindows deals with WalMart, a company that has a *very* bad
> track record when it comes to labour and union-busting, and we all know
> how I stand on that subject ;-)

Walmart has played it's part for all I care. The word is out, they can go
now. Why not sell a high end machine with Linux on it where we can run
apples against apples in comparisons? They threw it on some crap hardware
to push it out the door for under $500. I wonder how many of those systems
are now running windoh$ considering the $100/yr for software updates?

-- 
Keith
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:20:58 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:20:58 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310050.13150-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031031130721.771a638b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310050.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031031132058.3b1d0f8c.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:10:12 -0500 (EST)
Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> i'm careful:)

actually, I just realized how stupid my example was anyway.

I don't think ~ is recognized when you are in a root console anyway, no?

But even running X as root, you could cause serious probs without
knowingly doing anything, or so I've heard...

Ah, well, to each their own. I kinda like typing "su" and having to
enter a password, it appeals to the paranoiac in me ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Poems, all three hundred of them, may be summed up in one of their
phrases:
"Let our thoughts be correct".
		-- Confucius
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:24:26 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:24:26 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <20031031130446.55f30d06.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>	<20031031124246.13159a13.joehill@sympatico.ca>	<3FA29299.7030806@sympatico.ca> <20031031130446.55f30d06.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA2A8DA.4010502@sympatico.ca>

JoeHill wrote:

>On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 11:49:29 -0500
>David J Patrick <davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
>  
>
>>>You could "force" the install (is that the -f option?), though this
>>>is never highly recommended, you would alway be able to reinstall
>>>knx-alsa.
>>>      
>>>
Should I force the removal of knx-alsa or the install of the alse-base ? 
or both ?

>It's funny, though, that even after renaming /usr/bin/alsamixer, it
>still saw a conflict. Perhaps you were on the right track, and there is
>a record in /var/cache/apt/archives/ that is telling apt-get that
>/usr/bin/alsamixer still exists, even though it does not.
>
>Look in /var/cache/apt/archives/ for a config file that lists installed
>packages, and you might be able to comment out or delete the entry.
>  
>
I went into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and all I found there was 
alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb.
I renamed it (NOT.*.NOT) and ran;
root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get -f install
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
Correcting dependencies... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
  alsa-utils
Suggested packages:
  alsadriver
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  alsa-utils
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 161 not upgraded.
1 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 89.5kB of archives.
After unpacking 233kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
Get:1 http://ftp.de.debian.org testing/main alsa-utils 0.9.6-1 [89.5kB]
Fetched 89.5kB in 1s (78.8kB/s)
(Reading database ... 149680 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
dpkg: error processing 
/var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
 trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package knx-alsa
dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
Errors were encountered while processing:
 /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

WHAAA ?
sure enough /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb was 
somehow re-spawned  !
hmmmm ..
    Patience, my ass, time to _force_ something !
djp


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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:30:26 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 13:30:26 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <3FA28F94.50609-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>
	<1067621811.16362.11.camel@yoda>  <3FA28F94.50609@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067625026.16363.21.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 11:36, David J Patrick wrote:
> :/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get remove knx-alsa
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>   alsa-base: Depends: alsa-utils but it is not going to be installed
> E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or 
> specify a solution).

Hmmm... it seems the dependency check causes dpkg to fail no matter
what.  Try "apt-get -f remove knx-alsa" to dump the old package, or try
"apt-get remove alsa-base knx-alsa" to get rid of both.

> root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get check
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these.
> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>   alsa-base: Depends: alsa-utils but it is not installed
> E: Unmet dependencies. Try using -f.

Yup, it's definitely not liking the failed dependency.  On the lighter
side, give "apt-get moo" a shot.

Cheers!

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:36:35 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 13:36:35 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <20031031130446.55f30d06.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>
	<20031031124246.13159a13.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3FA29299.7030806@sympatico.ca> 
	<20031031130446.55f30d06.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067625395.16363.27.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 13:04, JoeHill wrote:
> then really, there should be no concern with using a "force" option.
> Sorry, I run Mandrake, so I don't know what switch enables the force
> install, but if you see "man apt-get" I bet it's in there.

I've found that with a decent install of Debian, the force option is
very rarely necessary.  The dependencies tend to be very well worked
out, and between apt and dpkg, upgrades are usually straight-forward.

> It's funny, though, that even after renaming /usr/bin/alsamixer, it
> still saw a conflict. Perhaps you were on the right track, and there is
> a record in /var/cache/apt/archives/ that is telling apt-get that
> /usr/bin/alsamixer still exists, even though it does not.

So far as I know, the actually file doesn't much matter, the dpkg
records keep track of which files are supposed to belong to which
package.  The result is that both packages have database entries for the
same file, and dpkg will not allow both to be installed.

> Look in /var/cache/apt/archives/ for a config file that lists installed
> packages, and you might be able to comment out or delete the entry.

Again, in debian this should be completely unnecessary, and sets up a
very bad precedent.  If you're going to do this, you might as well not
bother with apt, since you've destroyed it's most vital function:
keeping track of what's on the system.

> -- 
> JoeHill
> Registered Linux user #282046
> Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> The major sin is the sin of being born.
> 		-- Samuel Beckett

As I've long suspected, I'm going to hell in a handbasket.  Though I'd
always thought my undoing was installing Win95 on a 486.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:40:09 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 13:40:09 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031132058.3b1d0f8c.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031031130721.771a638b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310050.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> 
	<20031031132058.3b1d0f8c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067625610.16362.32.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 13:20, JoeHill wrote:
<snip>
> Ah, well, to each their own. I kinda like typing "su" and having to
> enter a password, it appeals to the paranoiac in me ;-)

<anecdote>
Just be careful you don't get into too much of a habit of just typing
passwords.  I've actually shut down my mail server late one night
thinking I was shutting down my local workstation.  It wouldn't have
been so bad if the server wasn't located on the other side of the city. 
On the plus side, since the server ran GNU/Linux, all I had to do was
call my Mother in the morning, and ask her to turn the machine back on. 
Within minutes, mail was processed for the night.
</anecdote>

Kareem


-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:20:31 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:20:31 -0500 (EST)
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha><20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca><20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net><20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com><20031030051140.61f29a24.joehill@sympatico.ca><44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
    <20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <46237.216.138.194.32.1067624431.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


<snip>
> <QUOTE>
>
> One such user, Jeffrey Barczak, a network support specialist with the
> Pennsylvania State University, says that he first experienced problems
> with the OWA security update only hours after installing it on one of
> his personal test systems.

Like a certain smp kernel upgrade did earlier this year...

> "Mail began accumulating in the 'Outboxes' on the Outlook clients that
> my Exchange 2000 Server supports. And for the few POP3 clients that I
> support, their mail got stuck in the SMTP queue," he explains.

wu-imap/sendmail...

> The problem, Barczak discovered, was that Exchange 2000's Information
> Store (MSExchangeIS) and POP3 (POP3Svc) services were apparently hanging
> shortly after start-up. An e-mail to the Windows NT Systems

nfs...

> Administrators mailing list confirmed his suspicions: at least one other
> IT manager responded and acknowledged that he'd experienced similar
> issues. Both Barczak and the other affected IT manager found that simply
> removing the patch didn't solve their problems.

ssl upgrade a few months back...

> Sometime on Friday, Microsoft pulled the OWA security update from its
> TechNet Web site and replaced it with a cryptic message indicating that
> the patch was "temporarily unavailable" and that it would likely "be
> returned to the Web shortly." As of Sunday night, however, the software
> patch was again available on Microsoft's Download Web site.
>
> </QUOTE>
>
> So, you see, this poor guy who probably could be doing so many more
> productive things, instead he's dealing with the morass that MS patches
> bring on.

You haven't been caught in upgrade hell? This is popular on webservers
running MySQL or PostGreSQL, PHP, Apache and so on. Recently when
apache-2.0 made the stage, sounded like a great idea so a whole bunch of
admins on another list I'm on upgraded... and found too late that the php
was not ready, but in the meantime saw a newer version of PHP was
available and upgraded, making for some sporadic database connectivity...
so they upgraded more software and now virtually nothing worked right. It
happens.

>> Then these linux-windoh$ wannabes are releasing Lindoh$s... making
>> things worse by releasing a honeypot as a desktop.
>
> Yeah, don't get me started on Lindows... ;-)
>
>> > Software developers and admins seem to spend too much time trying to
>> > react to the latest threat, rather than building more useful
>> > software and systems.
>>
>> Been to sourceforge lately? They've gotten so huge so fast they can't
>> keep up with the leaps. So many projects...
>
> Of course, and with any luck that will continue to be so. As I said on
> another list, though, there's more to this than just carrying on "doing
> the right thing", I really believe an active fight is in order, how to
> model that fight, I guess, I don't really know.

...the rebellion of youth.. it'll pass. :)

-- 
Keith
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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:42:59 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 13:42:59 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <3FA2A8DA.4010502-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>	<20031031124246.13159a13.joehill@sympatico.c
	a>	<3FA29299.7030806@sympatico.ca>
	<20031031130446.55f30d06.joehill@sympatico.ca> 
	<3FA2A8DA.4010502@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067625780.16362.36.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 13:24, David J Patrick wrote:
> I went into /var/cache/apt/archives/ and all I found there was 
> alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb.
> I renamed it (NOT.*.NOT) and ran;
> root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get -f install
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> Correcting dependencies... Done
> The following extra packages will be installed:
>   alsa-utils
> Suggested packages:
>   alsadriver
> The following NEW packages will be installed:
>   alsa-utils
> 0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 161 not upgraded.
> 1 not fully installed or removed.
> Need to get 89.5kB of archives.
> After unpacking 233kB of additional disk space will be used.
> Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
> Get:1 http://ftp.de.debian.org testing/main alsa-utils 0.9.6-1 [89.5kB]
> Fetched 89.5kB in 1s (78.8kB/s)
> (Reading database ... 149680 files and directories currently installed.)
> Unpacking alsa-utils (from .../alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb) ...
> dpkg: error processing 
> /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb (--unpack):
>  trying to overwrite `/usr/bin/alsamixer', which is also in package knx-alsa
> dpkg-deb: subprocess paste killed by signal (Broken pipe)
> Errors were encountered while processing:
>  /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb
> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
> 
> WHAAA ?
> sure enough /var/cache/apt/archives/alsa-utils_0.9.6-1_i386.deb was 
> somehow re-spawned  !
> hmmmm ..
>     Patience, my ass, time to _force_ something !
> djp

Ahhhh the resilience of apt.  Yes, you did managed to delete the
package.  apt-get simply went back out over the net and got it again.  I
strongly recommend *not* mucking with the package database.  Try forcing
the remove of alsa-base or knx-alsa.  If that doesn't work, we'll get
down to the dpkg level and try fixing things there.

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

--
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TLUG requests: Linux topics, No HTML, wrap text below 80 columns
How to UNSUBSCRIBE: http://tlug.ss.org/subscribe.shtml




From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:37:19 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:37:19 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <1067625395.16363.27.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>
	<20031031124246.13159a13.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<3FA29299.7030806@sympatico.ca>
	<20031031130446.55f30d06.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<1067625395.16363.27.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <20031031133719.15b9dff7.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On 31 Oct 2003 13:36:35 -0500
Kareem Shehata <kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> I've found that with a decent install of Debian, the force option is
> very rarely necessary.  The dependencies tend to be very well worked
> out, and between apt and dpkg, upgrades are usually straight-forward.
> 
> > It's funny, though, that even after renaming /usr/bin/alsamixer, it
> > still saw a conflict. Perhaps you were on the right track, and there
> > is a record in /var/cache/apt/archives/ that is telling apt-get that
> > /usr/bin/alsamixer still exists, even though it does not.
> 
> So far as I know, the actually file doesn't much matter, the dpkg
> records keep track of which files are supposed to belong to which
> package.  The result is that both packages have database entries for
> the same file, and dpkg will not allow both to be installed.
> 
> > Look in /var/cache/apt/archives/ for a config file that lists
> > installed packages, and you might be able to comment out or delete
> > the entry.
> 
> Again, in debian this should be completely unnecessary, and sets up a
> very bad precedent.  If you're going to do this, you might as well not
> bother with apt, since you've destroyed it's most vital function:
> keeping track of what's on the system.

Looks like Knoppix has played around with the "decent install of Debian"
though...which may require some "tinkering".

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Having the fewest wants, I am nearest to the gods.
		-- Socrates
--
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From davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:45:36 2003
From: davidjpatrick-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (David J Patrick)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:45:36 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <1067625026.16363.21.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>	<1067621811.16362.11.camel@yoda>  <3FA28F94.50609@sympatico.ca> <1067625026.16363.21.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <3FA2ADD0.7020105@sympatico.ca>

Kareem Shehata wrote:

>On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 11:36, David J Patrick wrote:
>  
>
>>:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get remove knx-alsa
>>Reading Package Lists... Done
>>Building Dependency Tree... Done
>>You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
>>The following packages have unmet dependencies:
>>  alsa-base: Depends: alsa-utils but it is not going to be installed
>>E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or 
>>specify a solution).
>>    
>>
>
>Hmmm... it seems the dependency check causes dpkg to fail no matter
>what.  Try "apt-get -f remove knx-alsa" to dump the old package, or try
>"apt-get remove alsa-base knx-alsa" to get rid of both.
>  
>

OK, first;
root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get -f remove knx-alsa
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
You might want to run `apt-get -f install' to correct these:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
  alsa-base: Depends: alsa-utils but it is not going to be installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or 
specify a solution).

same ol', same ol'
next;
root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get remove alsa-base knx-alsa
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  alsa-base knx-alsa
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 2 to remove and 161 not upgraded.
1 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 0B of archives.
After unpacking 3232kB disk space will be freed.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n]
(Reading database ... 149676 files and directories currently installed.)
Removing alsa-base ...
Removing knx-alsa ...

GONZO !
now to get alsa-base again ..
apt-get install alsa-base
bla bla bla
Setting up alsa-utils (0.9.6-1) ...
Setting up alsa-base (0.9.6-5) ...
success !

>  On the lighter
>side, give "apt-get moo" a shot.
>
>Cheers!
>
>Kareem
>
>  
>

root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get install moo
Reading Package Lists... Done
Building Dependency Tree... Done
E: Couldn't find package moo

 OH NO !
    what will I do without moo ?
       I hear it's verrry important ;-)

congrats Kareem ! you WIN the make-Davids'-box-go contest !
    clever approach; remove conflicting stuff with one command !
Your prize; the knowlege that I'm sporting a goofy grin and a _frosty 
pint_ at the next tlug meeting !
(I'll be the scruffy looking one with the backpack ... )
    Joe; thanks for playing and better luck next time !

djp





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From kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 19:02:32 2003
From: kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org (Kareem Shehata)
Date: 31 Oct 2003 14:02:32 -0500
Subject: apt-get problem
In-Reply-To: <3FA2ADD0.7020105-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA289B7.3040306@sympatico.ca>	<1067621811.16362.11.camel@yoda> 
	<3FA28F94.50609@sympatico.ca> <1067625026.16363.21.camel@yoda> 
	<3FA2ADD0.7020105@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <1067626954.16363.43.camel@yoda>

On Fri, 2003-10-31 at 13:45, David J Patrick wrote:
> GONZO !
> now to get alsa-base again ..
> apt-get install alsa-base
> bla bla bla
> Setting up alsa-utils (0.9.6-1) ...
> Setting up alsa-base (0.9.6-5) ...
> success !

woohoo!  I knew some combo of apt-get commands would make it work. 
Always a question of getting them right.  Nice part about apt-get is
that it's usually pretty hard to screw things up, since it won't let you
do things wacky unless you try really hard at it.

> >  On the lighter
> >side, give "apt-get moo" a shot.
> >
> >Cheers!
> >
> >Kareem
> >
> >  
> >
> 
> root at PIII500:/mnt/hda8/djp# apt-get install moo
> Reading Package Lists... Done
> Building Dependency Tree... Done
> E: Couldn't find package moo
> 
>  OH NO !
>     what will I do without moo ?
>        I hear it's verrry important ;-)

Hmmm.... your install seems to lack Super Cow Powers.  This is an
important feature debian, so in the future you may want to make sure you
have it.  :)

 
> congrats Kareem ! you WIN the make-Davids'-box-go contest !
>     clever approach; remove conflicting stuff with one command !
> Your prize; the knowlege that I'm sporting a goofy grin and a _frosty 
> pint_ at the next tlug meeting !
> (I'll be the scruffy looking one with the backpack ... )
>     Joe; thanks for playing and better luck next time !

The only thing better than beer... is free beer!  Mmmmm.... beer....

Kareem

-- 
/*********************************************************************
      kareem-d+8TeBu5bOew5LPnMra/2Q at public.gmane.org   -   Kareem Shehata   -   416-676-6611     
 --------------------------------------------------------------------
  Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some hire
  public relations officers.
    -- Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 - )
 ********************************************************************/

--
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From kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 18:44:39 2003
From: kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org (Keith Mastin)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:44:39 -0500 (EST)
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311255000.13150-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310310820.15079.fraser@wehave.net>
    <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311255000.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <46462.216.138.194.32.1067625879.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>


>> The only awful thing that I am aware is that they had people running as
>> root by default.  Running as root by default is insanity but I've heard
>> rumours that may no longer be the case ... anyone know?
>
> for running a PC, that's not so bad really. I've been running like that
> for a long time, but not on my server:)

"Do not take the name of root in vain" - Linus Torvalds

How does this limit your access to certain programs? Did you set up your
servers to allow remote root access? I don't see an advantage...

-- 
Keith
--
The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 20:23:53 2003
From: c.f.a.johnson-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Chris F.A. Johnson)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:23:53 -0500 (EST)
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <20031031132058.3b1d0f8c.joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg@public.gmane.org>
References: <20031031130721.771a638b.joehill@sympatico.ca>
 <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310050.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
 <20031031132058.3b1d0f8c.joehill@sympatico.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310311516010.2238@xword.rogers.com>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, JoeHill wrote:

> On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:10:12 -0500 (EST)
> Justin Zygmont <jzygmont-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b at public.gmane.org> uttered:
>
> > i'm careful:)
>
> actually, I just realized how stupid my example was anyway.
>
> I don't think ~ is recognized when you are in a root console anyway, no?

    Whether ~ is recognized or not depends on the shell. The Bourne
    shell did not recognize it, but ksh, tcsh and bash all do.

> But even running X as root, you could cause serious probs without
> knowingly doing anything, or so I've heard...

    If you use a display manager (xdm, gdm, kdm) to log in, X is run
    by root.

> Ah, well, to each their own. I kinda like typing "su" and having to
> enter a password, it appeals to the paranoiac in me ;-)

-- 
	Chris F.A. Johnson
	=================================================================
	cfaj-uVmiyxGBW52XDw4h08c5KA at public.gmane.org                      http://cfaj.freeshell.org
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 20:41:02 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:41:02 -0500
Subject: Cogeco
In-Reply-To: <002301c39c14$d9dcc8b0$81059d18-C0vT/5hSag0@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca> <20031024145925.GX20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <002301c39c14$d9dcc8b0$81059d18@ig88>
Message-ID: <20031031204102.GA25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 05:59:10PM -0500, Sidney wrote:
> I am interested in getting an internet phone in Toronto, can you suggest
> where to look for software/hardware?

Ours is a Nortel, and runs by being connected to a BCM3000 which is not
cheap, but is a nice small phone system (We have 16 regular extensions,
and support for many IP phones).  It is quite expandable too.  I think
it runs somehting like $12000 for 6 regular extensions, the BCM3000, 3
IP phones, and such.

It also has h.323 gateway support, so it can technically connect to
internet standard basd voice over IP software, although I haven't tried
it, so I am not sure exactly how that would work.

Cisco also makes such things, but apparently change a lot more money for
it.  Not sure what the 3com stuff costs.

It is neat to have someone in Windsor hit 9, number, and be dialing
Toronto locally though.

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 20:46:19 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:46:19 -0500
Subject: CD burners
In-Reply-To: <200310272300.36560.marc-bbkyySd1vPWsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310272300.36560.marc@lijour.net>
Message-ID: <20031031204619.GB25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 11:00:35PM -0500, Marc Lijour (Professeur d'Informatique) wrote:
> What are your best choices?
> 
> I heard about ASUS and Plextor.
> 
> Any advice?

Well both Asus and Plextor drives have worked very well for me.  Fast,
reliable, just work.  Nothing really beats a plextor, unless price
matters. :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:02:35 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:02:35 -0500
Subject: how to recover from a bad BIOS flash
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310301244260.9289-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310301244260.9289-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <20031031210235.GC25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Thu, Oct 30, 2003 at 12:48:58PM -0500, Justin Zygmont wrote:
> I remember posting a  message about this a while ago, but couldn't 
> remember the link.  Well, I found it again and thought it was interesting 
> enough to pass along.  Unlike the article states, you probably don't need 
> the same motherboard, as long as it seats the same bios chip, and most of 
> them do.
> 
> http://www.thetechboard.com/tutorials/flashBIOS.php

Well some boards (Many intel and Asus boards among others) have had
emergency boot block bioses, that can boot to VGA, with floppy access
running DOS.  This allows you to reflash them.  They can not do USB,
they can not do IDE, or anything else however.  The last new Asus board
I used even had the flash util in the BIOS and could read the new bios
file from a floppy.

Some flashers read values from the old bios for onboard ethernet MAC and
such, so flashin on a different machine might not work so well.  For
simpler boards without the emergency boot block and such that might not
be an issue.

I haven't personally ever had a flash fail, which I guess just means I
had stable power supply and used the right bios for the board and the
right flash utility.  Always worth making sure of that before you start
flashing.

Lennart Sorensen
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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:03:57 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:03:57 -0500
Subject: Kernel 2.6 and wheelmouse
In-Reply-To: <200310311003.00189.fraser-Txk5XLRqZ6CsTnJN9+BGXg@public.gmane.org>
References: <200310311003.00189.fraser@wehave.net>
Message-ID: <3FA2CE3D.9000005@rogers.com>

No ideas, but here's what I got if yer interested. Distro is SuSE 8.2, 
stock kernel, I'm running a logitech PS/2 wheelmouse (M-BJ58) but not 
wireless:

XF86Config...

	Section "InputDevice"
   	Driver       "mouse"
   	Identifier   "Mouse[1]"
   	Option       "ButtonNumber" "2"
   	Option       "Device" "/dev/mouse"
   	Option       "Name" "Autodetection"
   	Option       "Protocol" "imps/2"
   	Option       "Vendor" "Sysp"
   	Option       "ZAxisMapping" "4 5"
	EndSection

And apropos (far as I can tell) modules...

	mousedev                4148   0  (unused)
	evdev                   4032   0  (unused)
	input                   3104   0  [mousedev evdev]

SuSE probed and set it all up during the install. I've checked every 
*Xmodmap and *xinitrc file on my box and nothing in 'em for mice 
pointers. YMMV but if there's any other files you'd like me to check let 
me know.

Later,
B

-- 

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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 20:49:56 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:49:56 -0500
Subject: RH9 ISO Updateing, How?
In-Reply-To: <1067621314.16363.5.camel-VXIkh0TWzyg@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA2921E.3070704@alteeve.com>
 <3FA2921E.3070704@alteeve.com> <1067621314.16363.5.camel@yoda>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031153922.01fea1b0@mail.interlog.com>

At 12:28 PM 10/31/2003 -0500, Kareem wrote:
>I haven't mucked about in RH in a while, but last time I did, there was
>a RPMS folder in the root of the CD.  Try adding/removing packages there
>and give it a shot.  Dunno if there's actually a package index on the
>disk, or how you'd go about updating it.

There is a package index (or list) on the CD somewhere. I updated RPM 
packages in an ISO once but when I went to do the install with the updated 
image the installer complained that it couldn't find the older version of 
the package. Once you update the RPM you need to update the package list 
used by the installer. I don't know where that file is however.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:07:29 2003
From: blsonne-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (Byron Sonne)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:07:29 -0500
Subject: how to recover from a bad BIOS flash
In-Reply-To: <20031031210235.GC25986-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310301244260.9289-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org> <20031031210235.GC25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <3FA2CF11.8070709@rogers.com>

> I haven't personally ever had a flash fail, which I guess just means I
> had stable power supply and used the right bios for the board and the
> right flash utility.  Always worth making sure of that before you start
> flashing.

Never had a computer flash fail, but I've had to RMA a GPS unit after a 
stalled flash. Couple other devices too, but then again I'm the kinda 
guy who can accidentally cut himself with styrofoam (true story ;)

A good UPS is so worth it in many regards...

-- 

	For good, return good. For evil, return justice.

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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:08:27 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:08:27 -0500
Subject: Mounting hard drive; Hello, where are you?
In-Reply-To: <3F9DCC4A.7020801-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F9DCC4A.7020801@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <20031031210827.GD25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Mon, Oct 27, 2003 at 08:54:18PM -0500, Madison Kelly wrote:
>   I am trying to do something very simple but it is being anything 
> but... I have a laptop hard drive here that I am trying to image before 
> I erase. Simple enough; I connect it as Master on the secondary channel, 
> boot, '# mount -t vfat /dev/hdc1 /mnt/backup'... nothing. Try '#fdisk 
> -l', nothing. I know that hardware-wise it's fine because I tried (uggh) 
> booting my Win2k part and there it is seen fine. Also, on boot the BIOS 
> sees it (not that it matters to Linux) and on powerdown it reports to 
> flush HDC...
> 
>   So, does anyone have any idea why a seemingly fine connected FAT32 
> hard drive (10GB) would not be seen by Linux's FDISK but it WOULD be 
> found by Win2k? Isn't that pretty bass-ackwards? Any help is appreciated!

Might it be a MS dynamic partition table rather than the older DOS style
partition table?

Linux can support the new type if compiled to support it.  Not sure.

Lennart Sorensen
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From kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:08:00 2003
From: kcozens-qazKcTl6WRFWk0Htik3J/w at public.gmane.org (Kevin Cozens)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:08:00 -0500
Subject: Mail delivery problem on my server
In-Reply-To: <3FA13AC6.9020601-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA13AC6.9020601@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031160302.01fe95a0@mail.interlog.com>

At 11:22 AM 10/30/2003 -0500, Madison wrote:
>   The only other thing I have noticed is that, for some reason, some of 
> the mail account spool files on the server have the group "mail" set 
> where most of the others have both owner AND group set to their 
> name/group. Finally, a couple other accounts had been changed to 
> permission -rw------- (0600) where most again where -rw-rw---- (0660). I 
> tried changing my own 'mkelly' file to owner/group mkelly and setting the 
> permissions back to 0660 but the message still bounced.

I just checked the settings/permissions on a SunOS box I have access to 
since I don't run Sendmail on Linux anymore. The directory which contains 
the files with the received mail has settings of 755 and chown of root.mail 
while the files in the directory are all 660 and chown'ed <user>.mail where 
<user> is a user ID as listed in /etc/passwd.


Cheers!

Kevin.  (http://www.interlog.com/~kcozens/)

Owner of Elecraft K2 #2172        |"What are we going to do today, Borg?"
E-mail:kcozens at interlog dot com|"Same thing we always do, Pinkutus:
Packet:ve3syb at ve3yra.#con.on.ca.na|  Try to assimilate the world!"
#include <disclaimer/favourite>   |              -Pinkutus & the Borg

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From ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:30:03 2003
From: ralph-Zd07PnzKK1IAvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ralph Doncaster)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:30:03 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Cogeco
In-Reply-To: <20031031204102.GA25986-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca> <20031024145925.GX20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
 <002301c39c14$d9dcc8b0$81059d18@ig88> <20031031204102.GA25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310311626550.11504@ns.istop.com>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003, Lennart Sorensen wrote:

> On Sun, Oct 26, 2003 at 05:59:10PM -0500, Sidney wrote:
> > I am interested in getting an internet phone in Toronto, can you suggest
> > where to look for software/hardware?
>
> Ours is a Nortel, and runs by being connected to a BCM3000 which is not
> cheap, but is a nice small phone system (We have 16 regular extensions,
> and support for many IP phones).  It is quite expandable too.  I think
> it runs somehting like $12000 for 6 regular extensions, the BCM3000, 3
> IP phones, and such.

Shame, shame, recommending a proprietary (and overpriced) Nortel product
on a Linux list.  Asterisk (www.asterisk.org) runs on Linux.
For a US$65 SIP phone, check out FWD. http://www.freeworlddialup.com/

-Ralph
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From opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:42:25 2003
From: opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org (William Park)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:42:25 -0500
Subject: Mail delivery problem on my server
In-Reply-To: <5.2.1.1.0.20031031160302.01fe95a0-Nf8GSVjHSL5zk1aGpazrEgC/G2K4zDHf@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA13AC6.9020601@alteeve.com> <5.2.1.1.0.20031031160302.01fe95a0@mail.interlog.com>
Message-ID: <20031031214225.GA3023@node1.opengeometry.net>

On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 04:08:00PM -0500, Kevin Cozens wrote:
> At 11:22 AM 10/30/2003 -0500, Madison wrote:
> >  The only other thing I have noticed is that, for some reason, some of 
> >the mail account spool files on the server have the group "mail" set 
> >where most of the others have both owner AND group set to their 
> >name/group. Finally, a couple other accounts had been changed to 
> >permission -rw------- (0600) where most again where -rw-rw---- (0660). I 
> >tried changing my own 'mkelly' file to owner/group mkelly and setting the 
> >permissions back to 0660 but the message still bounced.
> 
> I just checked the settings/permissions on a SunOS box I have access to 
> since I don't run Sendmail on Linux anymore. The directory which contains 
> the files with the received mail has settings of 755 and chown of root.mail 
> while the files in the directory are all 660 and chown'ed <user>.mail where 
> <user> is a user ID as listed in /etc/passwd.

Same on my Slackware,
    /var/spool/mail		-- 1777 root:mail
    /var/spool/mail/*		-- 660 user:mail
    /var/spool/mail/root	-- 600 root:mail

-- 
William Park, Open Geometry Consulting, <opengeometry-FFYn/CNdgSA at public.gmane.org>
Linux solution for data management and processing. 
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From cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 21:50:29 2003
From: cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org (cbbrowne-HInyCGIudOg at public.gmane.org)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 16:50:29 -0500
Subject: AppGen out of business - one fewer proprietary package for Linux
Message-ID: <20031031215030.6B44C45DF@cbbrowne.com>

<http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=03/10/18/1814211&mode=thread&tid=132&tid=82&tid=89>
 
AppGen, the vendor of an apparently well-regarded set of business 
accounting software running on Linux, has just gone out of business. 
 
And despite promises of source code being held in escrow, the VARs that 
depend on being able to get 'license keys' from AppGen appear to be 
significant losers in this. 
--
"cbbrowne","@","cbbrowne.com"
http://cbbrowne.com/info/unix.html
"Programming today  is a race  between software engineers  striving to
build bigger and better  idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying
to  produce  bigger  and  better  idiots.  So  far,  the  Universe  is
winning."  -- Rich Cook
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From lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 22:05:13 2003
From: lada-h8kxHjy+vg4AvxtiuMwx3w at public.gmane.org (Ladislav Svatos)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:05:13 -0500
Subject: RH9 ISO Updateing, How?
In-Reply-To: <3FA2921E.3070704-5ZoueyuiTZhBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org>
References: <3FA2921E.3070704@alteeve.com>
Message-ID: <200310311705.13102.lada@agawa.com>

On October 31, 2003 11:47 am, Madison Kelly wrote:

Try:

http://www.techonthenet.com/linux/rh9_update.htm

Lada

> Hi all,
>    So, my question is, does anyone know how, or better yet know of a
> HowTo that can show me how to properly do things like update packages
> (ie. kernel, up2date SSL) and add drivers (ie. nvidia, e1000) to the
> Redhat 9.0 install CDs so that they will be available and used during
> install?
>
>    Many thanks!!
>
> Madison
>
> --
> The Toronto Linux Users Group.      Meetings: http://tlug.ss.org
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From lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 22:06:04 2003
From: lsorense-1wCw9BSqJbv44Nm34jS7GywD8/FfD2ys at public.gmane.org (Lennart Sorensen)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:06:04 -0500
Subject: Cogeco
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310311626550.11504-aSG3JAnhR7ZWk0Htik3J/w@public.gmane.org>
References: <3F96C47C.6040408@sympatico.ca> <20031024145925.GX20573@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <002301c39c14$d9dcc8b0$81059d18@ig88> <20031031204102.GA25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> <Pine.LNX.4.58.0310311626550.11504@ns.istop.com>
Message-ID: <20031031220604.GE25986@csclub.uwaterloo.ca>

On Fri, Oct 31, 2003 at 04:30:03PM -0500, Ralph Doncaster wrote:
> Shame, shame, recommending a proprietary (and overpriced) Nortel product
> on a Linux list.  Asterisk (www.asterisk.org) runs on Linux.
> For a US$65 SIP phone, check out FWD. http://www.freeworlddialup.com/

I am not recomending it, just saying we have it and it is working,
although I find the price high (even though it is less than the cisco
stuff).  Did I mention it runs NT? :)

Lennart Sorensen
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From joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 22:32:44 2003
From: joehill-rieW9WUcm8FFJ04o6PK0Fg at public.gmane.org (JoeHill)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 17:32:44 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <46237.216.138.194.32.1067624431.squirrel-16UnNR4aCrhlws70yGkXPA@public.gmane.org>
References: <000d01c39e63$03c92290$24af9d18@alpha>
	<20031029190651.106e7055.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<20031030001427.GA2077@node1.opengeometry.net>
	<20031030034330.4D87240CF@cbbrowne.com>
	<20031030051140.61f29a24.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<44593.216.138.194.32.1067562704.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
	<20031031065348.4d3e2503.joehill@sympatico.ca>
	<46237.216.138.194.32.1067624431.squirrel@www.beechtree.ca>
Message-ID: <20031031173244.04deb87e.joehill@sympatico.ca>

On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 13:20:31 -0500 (EST)
"Keith Mastin" <kmastin-PzQIwG9Jn9VAFePFGvp55w at public.gmane.org> uttered:

> 
> ...the rebellion of youth.. it'll pass. :)

You'd think so, but I keep getting more rebellious ;-)

-- 
JoeHill
Registered Linux user #282046
Homepage: www.orderinchaos.org
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Living in the complex world of the future is somewhat like having bees
live in your head.  But, there they are.
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From james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 23:31:21 2003
From: james.knott-bJEeYj9oJeDQT0dZR+AlfA at public.gmane.org (James Knott)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:31:21 -0500
Subject: IT Job creations...  IT job losses?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310050.13150-100000-tEQKYFGiemxAYG7eUwYNkWD2FQJk+8+b@public.gmane.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0310311310050.13150-100000@solarflow.dyndns.org>
Message-ID: <3FA2F0C9.50402@rogers.com>

Justin Zygmont wrote:
> i'm careful:)
$^$#%T%$^NO CARRIER  ;-)


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From teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org  Fri Oct 31 23:37:07 2003
From: teddymills-VFlxZYho3OA at public.gmane.org (Teddy Mills)
Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:37:07 -0500
Subject: Goldilocks and the 3 bears
Message-ID: <001201c3a007$e6aa94e0$0a01a8c0@viper>


I still got that 80GB that I cannot use because the BIOS cannot understand
it.

So theres three bowls of porridge.....

1) sell the drive
2) find a computer that will understand the 80GB
3) find an PCI-IDE controller that will undertstand the 80GB

As for option 3, is that a valid option? I mean the computer/bios wont
understand the drive, but the IDE controller will?



"You can't kill zombie processes because they're ALREADY DEAD!" (banging on
the desk)


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